1 00:00:02,879 --> 00:00:04,879 Speaker 1: Today's episode of the Trip Cast is brought to you 2 00:00:04,919 --> 00:00:08,640 by Ambassador Tony Garza and the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. 3 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:14,679 Welcome to this week's episode of the Trip Cast. I 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,960 am James Vadragan. With me, as always is intrepid Women's 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,079 health reporter Eleanor klebanoff Ari. 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: I'm good. 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,199 Speaker 3: How are you you like that intro? 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: Huh, I'm very intrepid, everyone says it. 9 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:27,559 Speaker 1: And our guest this week is Alejandra Serrano, who has 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,280 been writing a fair amount about our subject of the week, immigration. 11 00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:33,719 Speaker 3: Alejandra, how are you good? Here are you go? Thank 12 00:00:33,719 --> 00:00:37,479 you for having me? Great, We're very excited. Before we 13 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:40,960 get started, let's check in. How are we doing, folks? 14 00:00:41,039 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: Have we recovered from the super Bowl and from the 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,399 Kansas City Chiefs playing an absolute egg in the Super 16 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:53,359 Bowl preventing our guy Travis Kelce from proposing to Taylor 17 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:55,960 Swift in the most man move that could possibly be 18 00:00:56,039 --> 00:00:57,119 done in front. 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,679 Speaker 3: Of thousands of people just trying to watch sports. 20 00:01:01,159 --> 00:01:03,799 Speaker 4: Okay, as we've established not a sports podcast, we don't 21 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:06,480 know that much about sports, but I will say we're 22 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,079 going to lean into this. 23 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: You come to us for the. 24 00:01:09,239 --> 00:01:11,439 Speaker 4: Sports and while we have you here, we will back 25 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:12,760 into some Texas politics. 26 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:13,719 Speaker 2: I will say. 27 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 4: Personally, a little known fact about me is that I 28 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,959 lived in Philadelphia until I was eleven years old. So 29 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,959 I am a. 30 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:23,359 Speaker 2: A halfway Eagles fan. 31 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 4: I tend to root for the Eagles when when given 32 00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:29,959 the chance, and then I moved to Atlanta. 33 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: So I am also a halfway Falcons fan who, when 34 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,840 given the chance to choose which of those teams to 35 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,159 root for in a Super Bowl, the Eagles are shown 36 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:39,560 or doing a better showing than the. 37 00:01:39,519 --> 00:01:41,799 Speaker 3: Falcons, they were going to say, I'm rooting for the Birds. 38 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: I'm rooting for the Birds. 39 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,519 Speaker 4: Yeah. So I had a great time watching the Super Bowl. 40 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,200 I thought it was I like to see one team 41 00:01:48,239 --> 00:01:50,439 really kick the hell out of the other. 42 00:01:50,799 --> 00:01:51,719 Speaker 2: It's more fun that way. 43 00:01:52,319 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: One hundred Do you have thoughts on the Super Bowl? 44 00:01:53,879 --> 00:01:54,719 I thought it was boring. 45 00:01:54,959 --> 00:01:57,319 Speaker 4: Wow yeah wow. 46 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,599 Speaker 3: After the third quarter I was checked out me too. 47 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: I was just reading reviews of the Kendrick Lamar halftime show, 48 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:04,599 which people went crazy for. 49 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 4: Like, I'm both yeah, very divisive, I do think to 50 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:10,800 doesn't extent is everything just very divisive? 51 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 5: Now, maybe those pants weren't I kind of like the 52 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,960 people generally, like I. 53 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 4: Thought, in general, I like, yeah, you left in the 54 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:21,840 third quarter. 55 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: So did President Trump. He left a little correct. 56 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: And actually funny that you bring that up, because not 57 00:02:28,439 --> 00:02:30,680 to inject politics into this podcast. 58 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:31,479 Speaker 2: The only thing we know how to do. 59 00:02:32,199 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 3: But President Trump. 60 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: Was there and I read in the AP that this 61 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,080 is the first time that a sitting president was in 62 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:38,560 attendance at the Super Bowl. 63 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: I just thought that was interesting because we've had big 64 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,599 sports fans. Uh. 65 00:02:42,759 --> 00:02:45,159 Speaker 1: You know, President Bush used to own a baseball team, 66 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,080 and right, that does surprise. President Obama was a big 67 00:02:47,159 --> 00:02:49,159 basketball guy. He used to fill out the March Madness 68 00:02:49,199 --> 00:02:49,919 bracket all the time. 69 00:02:50,039 --> 00:02:51,319 Speaker 2: You think it's like a security thing. 70 00:02:52,599 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. 71 00:02:53,479 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say that, Yeah, I'd say it might be. 72 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,960 That makes sense, I really I would think there's like 73 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,360 nothing more American than going to watch the Super Bowl 74 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,919 as the president. Like the president should be like you 75 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:08,919 have to go watch the last game of the World Series, 76 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,159 Like you have to be the person who like the Knights, 77 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,639 you know, like in in the UK when they have 78 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,039 like the f A Cup, like Prince William goes and 79 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,800 hands them the trophy. 80 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: You're I know a lot about the Royals. 81 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 4: I don't know that much about football, but I do 82 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:24,360 know a lot about the Royals. 83 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: Sports expert, kind of a sports expert. 84 00:03:27,159 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 4: But I think we should make the president do that. 85 00:03:29,039 --> 00:03:32,039 Like you give the World Series trophy unless it's one 86 00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:35,120 of the Canadian teams. You give the NFL, you know, 87 00:03:35,479 --> 00:03:38,560 the trophy, the Stanley Cup. How many trophies can I 88 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:42,840 name you? I think you cheated and limits, Yeah, the 89 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,719 Stanley Cup, the World Series, the Super Bowl? 90 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:49,639 Speaker 2: What their sports are there? 91 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 3: The MLS Cup, the Los Angeles Galaxy six time. 92 00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:55,919 Speaker 2: Champion, and the basketball what do they call that? 93 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: Uh? I don't know. The NBA trophy, NBA trophy? 94 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: Oh my god, guys, sorry we extended. 95 00:04:01,759 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: Yes, sorry, Alejandro, thank you for joining us on this. 96 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:07,159 Speaker 2: The things we do know about. 97 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to the real topic at hand. It's 98 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,759 a big one this week, and it's immigration. President Trump 99 00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:17,360 promised to do mass deportations starting on day one. He 100 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:20,120 promised to continue building the wall. He promised to give 101 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,519 the death penalty to any migrant who killed an American citizen. 102 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:29,199 All these big, big promises, big big, sometimes controversial items, 103 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:32,199 and he's hit the ground running. I mean, it's only 104 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,920 been a couple of weeks that he's been in office, 105 00:04:34,399 --> 00:04:39,199 and it seems like from watching your team, trying to 106 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,800 follow this news, it's very hard. 107 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,639 Speaker 3: It's like drinking from fire hydrant. 108 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: So, Alejandro, so far, what are you seeing from the 109 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:52,639 Trump administration's immigration plan? It certainly looks like it's been 110 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,720 a blitz. To continue our football references, but do we 111 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,439 see any coherent plan here or is it just as 112 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,160 a Texas football fan would say, all gas, no breaks. 113 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's it's definitely been a blitz. I 114 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,319 mean Trump has done a lot. You know, he ended 115 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,759 use of an app asylum seeking migrants would use to 116 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,800 schedule an appointment at CBP one right, Yeah, with immigration officials. 117 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:24,600 He's removed temporary protections some people had. He's also delegated 118 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,759 more authority to state officials in some cases. But I 119 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,480 think the overall plan is not yet clear, and it 120 00:05:30,879 --> 00:05:35,000 kind of seems like still a lot's unfolding. But it 121 00:05:35,079 --> 00:05:37,360 certainly has been a flurry of things that have already 122 00:05:37,399 --> 00:05:38,240 impacted people. 123 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,319 Speaker 4: It's interesting, like the really tangible things like so quickly, 124 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,120 like the app went down, right, like, you. 125 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: Know, so that was pretty soon after inauguration. 126 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 4: So there's like these tangible things as well as these 127 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:50,040 like large policy changes that take a while to see 128 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,040 the impact. 129 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,639 Speaker 5: Of right and has anticipated. I mean, some of the 130 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:57,560 stuff's being litigated. Like one of the hallmark promises was 131 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,480 ending birthright citizenship, and a lot of people were like, well, 132 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:02,519 you can't just get rid of the fourteenth Amendment. And 133 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,240 now it's become a legal battle in which a judge 134 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,240 has so far said, you know you can't. 135 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: H And on the CBP one front, I mean on 136 00:06:10,959 --> 00:06:15,079 the app, you and your colleague Uria Artia wrote a 137 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,120 story about some of the migrants who are waiting around 138 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:23,079 right and just trying to get their asylum claims to go, 139 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:27,439 and they were waiting and their meetings were suddenly canceled. Right, 140 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,959 So it's an immediate impact of the new administration coming 141 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,680 in and having an immigration crackdown. 142 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:36,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, can I ask you to put you to the 143 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,800 test really quickly and briefly catch us up on birthright citizenship, 144 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:41,480 Like what it is, why it's controversial. 145 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,959 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the Well, the fourteenth Amendment pretty much grants this, 146 00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:48,240 as I understand it. 147 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 3: I haven't been covering this a. 148 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,959 Speaker 4: Lot version and I'm sure we'll get emails. 149 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,319 Speaker 5: If you know, the long and short of it is, 150 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,480 if you have a child in this country, they are 151 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:01,399 an American citizen and has been this way for a 152 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:03,800 long time, and Trump wanted to end this, but it 153 00:07:03,879 --> 00:07:08,000 is encoded by the Constitution fourteenth Amendment, so a president 154 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,920 doesn't have the authority to just override the Constitution need 155 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,079 a congressional amendment, which is kind of now, I guess 156 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,240 where the battle is turning, and it's unclear what's next. 157 00:07:17,439 --> 00:07:20,639 Speaker 1: And it's one of the obviously one of the amendments 158 00:07:20,639 --> 00:07:24,680 that got passed after the Civil War, and it enfranchises people. 159 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,759 It gives them personhood, it gives them citizenship because previously, 160 00:07:28,079 --> 00:07:30,800 of course, enslaved people did not have any of those rights. 161 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,839 So this goes far back, a long way, more than 162 00:07:33,879 --> 00:07:37,120 a century. So we're talking to about radical changes to 163 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:43,759 the constitution, Alejandro. Numerous state officials, including Governor Abbott, Lieutenant 164 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:46,959 Governor Patrick Lan, Commissioner Don Buckingham, they've said that they 165 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:49,959 are hoping to offer the federal government help, and we've 166 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,079 seen the National Guard be deployed as well state troopers. 167 00:07:53,399 --> 00:07:56,600 We've seen land Commissioner Buckingham offered to provide the federal 168 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,519 government some land for detention and mass deportations, the state 169 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,399 working with the feds, Like, what's that partnership? Looking like 170 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:06,680 they've obviously been they've cooperated together in the past, right, 171 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:07,759 but how is this different? 172 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think one way to clearly look 173 00:08:12,079 --> 00:08:15,439 at it is the last four years a lot of 174 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,759 state officials felt like they were in opposition with the 175 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:22,120 federal government and Texas had conflicts with the feral government 176 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,720 when it came to immigration enforcement. And now it's the 177 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,040 opposite and they have a willing partner. So Texas kind 178 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,160 of going out of its way and being like, hey, 179 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:31,439 we want to help. So what does that look like 180 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,279 on the ground. While the governors directed state agencies to 181 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,679 cooperate with federal officials, he signed an agreement with the 182 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,360 Trump administration to give National Guard troops immigration arrest authority. 183 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,960 And those are kind of some of the bigger things, 184 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,080 and you have tinier things like that are not clear yet. 185 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,360 For instance, you brought up the Land Commissioner offering land. 186 00:08:51,399 --> 00:08:55,080 We don't know yet that elase has been signed, but 187 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,480 we know the administration said it wants the land. So 188 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:00,679 it presents all these other questions of what does that 189 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,799 partnership look like. But the biggest thing here is like 190 00:09:02,879 --> 00:09:06,720 now it's like two allies working toward the same goal instead. 191 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: Of in opposition of each other. 192 00:09:08,279 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 5: If that makes sense. 193 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, And will that you know, one of the things 194 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:12,960 that we were talking about in some of our budget 195 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,759 talks is will that lead to savings on the immigration front, 196 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,200 because theoretically with the federal partner, now maybe the state 197 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,399 can pull back. But what are you learning about whether 198 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,840 the state can take some of those billions of dollars 199 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,919 that it's invested and leave it to the federal government 200 00:09:29,919 --> 00:09:32,200 and maybe turn that those billions of dollars towards something 201 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,039 else in the budget. 202 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean that's a great question and point, 203 00:09:35,639 --> 00:09:37,879 and it's kind of unclear right now. And if anything, 204 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,759 kind of the what the signals we're getting out of 205 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:44,559 all these components right what state officials are doing. The legislature, 206 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,159 which is just starting in earnest its budget negotiations, is 207 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:50,639 that Texas is going to double down on border security 208 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,360 and kind of further cement this role it has in 209 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,679 border security. The legislature is considering six point five billion 210 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,039 dollars of funding toward security, and when you think about 211 00:10:02,039 --> 00:10:04,320 eleven billion that we spend the last four years as 212 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,080 a state. You know, six point five is kind of 213 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,120 a step more. It's it's not more than has been appropriated, 214 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,240 but it's also not less. So it's kind of saying something. 215 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,360 But also as a state, we have to remember that 216 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:21,000 we've done things that have also advanced this cementation. 217 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: That's a word. 218 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 5: And I think the kind of like the hallmark thing 219 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,799 recently is Senate Bill four, which would give state police 220 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,600 the authority to arrest people suspected of being undocumented. And 221 00:10:36,639 --> 00:10:38,600 it's still being litigated, but you know, when we think 222 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,759 about Texas's role and immigration enforcement, all these things have 223 00:10:42,879 --> 00:10:47,679 to be considered. And I'm sorry, I forgot what you asked. 224 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:49,879 Speaker 2: There's no evidence. 225 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,759 Speaker 4: I think there's like a version of events or maybe 226 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:56,279 even like a thing some people like you might think, 227 00:10:56,399 --> 00:10:58,919 like okay, like now Texas has this partner in the 228 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:00,639 White House, like they can be like you know, for 229 00:11:00,759 --> 00:11:02,639 years they've been saying, like to the Biden administration, like 230 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,039 do more. Now we can presume President Trump is going 231 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,080 to do more, and like you think, Texas one version 232 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,919 of events is Texas says like great, we can sit 233 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,720 back on our Laurels, we can let you do. You know, 234 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:15,759 we're going to work on this other issue. And I 235 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:20,279 think that is a foolish to think that that's how 236 00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:22,080 that was going to go. Right, Texas is going to go. 237 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,440 Now we have a partner, let's go like turbo charged. 238 00:11:24,519 --> 00:11:25,720 And I think to a certain extent, that's. 239 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 3: What we're seeing right. 240 00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:28,759 Speaker 5: Otherwise, Yeah, I don't know that it was foolish or not. 241 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:30,200 I mean, I guess it's not for me to say. 242 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,279 But what we do know is, you know, immediately after 243 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,440 the election, the governor and lieutenant governor separately floated this 244 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:39,879 idea that the state might scale back. The lieutenant governor 245 00:11:39,919 --> 00:11:43,240 even mentioned like specific things that other that border security 246 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:46,000 money could be allocated for instead. So there was like 247 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:48,240 this kind of this like kind of like trial balloon 248 00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:51,519 floated that was like, oh, but we also must consider 249 00:11:51,519 --> 00:11:54,679 that in Texas, at least, like especially among Republican voters, 250 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,200 according to polling, there's like an endless appetite for border 251 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,320 security spending. So now we're seeing doubling down. So yeah, 252 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,759 for a minute, for a hot minute, it was like, 253 00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:05,200 all right, we might cut back. 254 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:05,639 Speaker 4: Yeah. 255 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:06,879 Speaker 3: Now now it's like no. 256 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:08,879 Speaker 1: Well there's yeah, there's no doubt that politically it's good 257 00:12:08,879 --> 00:12:11,960 to say I'm spending so much money, But just policy wise, 258 00:12:12,039 --> 00:12:15,159 is it wise for the state to be spending that 259 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,200 much money when there is a federal government that is 260 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,159 theoretically doing these things already. And another thing to point 261 00:12:21,159 --> 00:12:23,240 out is that the governor has been going to d 262 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,960 C having meetings with President Trump, having meetings with the 263 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,759 congressional delegation about getting these eleven billion dollars back. That's 264 00:12:29,799 --> 00:12:33,600 something that's been floated in the past before and obviously 265 00:12:33,759 --> 00:12:36,759 has not worked. But it seems like maybe there's an 266 00:12:36,799 --> 00:12:39,480 appetite now to get clost some of that money back. 267 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,080 So that'll be interesting to see how it plays out, 268 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,960 because I can't imagine that the other states will be 269 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,639 too happy that Texas is getting eleven billion dollars or 270 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,279 some of that money. 271 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 4: Right, it's a little bit of a I mean, it's 272 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,000 like a weird you're set up a little bit of 273 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,039 a weird system, right of like you know, if we 274 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:55,960 you know, in Texas's mind, right like we're doing your 275 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,440 job for you on sort of on layaway and just 276 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:00,639 give us the mone me back later. 277 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: Is like you're setting. 278 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 4: Yourself up for some potential issues, but obviously, you know, 279 00:13:04,919 --> 00:13:07,159 being I'm sure the state would be thrilled to get 280 00:13:07,159 --> 00:13:08,039 eleven billion dollars. 281 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,159 Speaker 3: Well, it depends the state. 282 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,519 Speaker 5: I think some states would probably support a reimbursement, such 283 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,559 as the governors who supported Operation Loans Start, right. 284 00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: They just might get in line for money too, That's. 285 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: What I'm saying. 286 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: Like Florida sent people North Dakota, South Dakota cent people, 287 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,840 so it's like they want they probably want reimbursements, right. 288 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 4: I just would like to say, like if relevant, like 289 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,240 I would put myself in, I would like eleven billion 290 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:29,919 dollars if we're offering it. 291 00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: I don't know for what. 292 00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:34,279 Speaker 4: I've never spent eleven billion dollars, but you know that'd 293 00:13:34,279 --> 00:13:35,039 be my preference. 294 00:13:36,159 --> 00:13:36,919 Speaker 3: Okay, Eleanor. 295 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,639 Speaker 1: We've talked about this before, but the FEDS are now 296 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,240 following the blueprint that Texas has laid out on immigration enforcement, 297 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,240 on the immigration crackdown, and I want you to talk 298 00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:52,120 a bit about how Texas sort of did that in courts, 299 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,679 through the legal system, and because this is like something 300 00:13:55,759 --> 00:13:58,519 that Texas has been doing for years now, for years now, 301 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:02,000 and you know, Governor Abbitt has talked about how the 302 00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:04,480 FEDS are now taking basically his model and taking up 303 00:14:04,519 --> 00:14:07,080 to the big leagues. So can you shed some light 304 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:08,919 on sort of what that looks like. 305 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know this is something all Hundre and I've 306 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,639 talked about a lot, so feel fit to chime in 307 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,039 as well. But I do think you know, Texas, on 308 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,919 not just immigration, but on a number of issues, has 309 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,120 sort of made this broader playbook, right of like do 310 00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:23,480 something that you know they say it couldn't be done, 311 00:14:23,559 --> 00:14:26,320 Texas does it. We fight it through the courts and 312 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,000 like increasingly commonly, like the court side with Texas, you 313 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,799 know in some cases because of their you know, novel 314 00:14:34,879 --> 00:14:37,600 legal theories holding up in some cases because you know, 315 00:14:37,639 --> 00:14:39,879 they are able to get this in front of judges 316 00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:42,080 that you know, friendly judges to sort of see their 317 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,320 their argument. The Fifth Circuit obviously very conservative and a 318 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,159 lot of cases stall out there or you know, go 319 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,840 to the Supreme Court, which also obviously has a conservative majority. 320 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: So Texas has. 321 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 4: Done that on a number of things that you know, 322 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:59,639 then sort of become you know, legally more like more 323 00:14:59,679 --> 00:15:01,960 sound than they were when Texas first passed the law, 324 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,960 first tried something immigration. We definitely have seen that you know, because. 325 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: When when they first present things, it's it sounds like, oh, 326 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:08,639 that's crazy that. 327 00:15:08,759 --> 00:15:10,159 Speaker 4: Right now you're like, I mean, I think there's a 328 00:15:10,159 --> 00:15:14,320 lot of stuff, I mean on immigration, on abortion, on 329 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,440 other stuff where Texas is like pushing the envelope where 330 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,080 like even we as reporters are like, oh, like do 331 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,639 we even need to write about that? Like it's just 332 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,279 like you know, conservative grandstanding, and then it passes, and 333 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,320 then it goes to court and then sometimes it holds up. 334 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:28,039 Speaker 2: A lot of stuff does not end up holding up in. 335 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 4: Court, we should say, But on immigration in particular, you 336 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:33,200 know SP four I think is an example of this, 337 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,240 Like that has you know, a you know sort of 338 00:15:38,039 --> 00:15:40,799 using setting up a legal theory that had not really 339 00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:44,639 been tested before that legal experts feel like if it 340 00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:48,080 was upheld in court, it's not just about you know, 341 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,240 is Texas's law sound or not. It's about like who 342 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,639 has It's these like macro questions if who has the 343 00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:56,600 authority to enforce immigration law, who has the authority to 344 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,919 govern the border, and sort. 345 00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,039 Speaker 2: Of like what makes us a United States of America? 346 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,120 Like these big questions. 347 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 4: So Texas has definitely laid out the playbook for like 348 00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:08,320 let's try stuff and let the courts tell us no. 349 00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:12,799 And we're certainly seeing that. I think the Trump administration, 350 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,440 we should say, the Trump adminstration is going to is 351 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:17,440 already doing a lot of stuff that Texas has laid 352 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,840 out and tried. Just because the federal government is doing 353 00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:25,279 it does not automatically mean it's legal either, Right, Like, 354 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,000 the Trump administration will face legal pushback. Yeah, that will 355 00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:28,960 go through the courts as. 356 00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: Well on things like executive orders on birthright citizenship, which 357 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:32,919 we've already seen being challenged. 358 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,639 Speaker 4: Right, So it's going to be a similar playbook in 359 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:37,600 that which is like nothing is you know, immediate, but 360 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:39,639 it still can slowly shift things. 361 00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:41,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to clarify that to s before the 362 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:44,759 most recent from twenty twenty three, not s before the 363 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:47,840 Sanctuary City's bill, which has also had some pretty novel 364 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:48,399 ideas on. 365 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,799 Speaker 3: How to enforce immigration all one hundred. I want to 366 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:51,360 go back to you. 367 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,639 Speaker 1: We discussed this proly previously on the show with our 368 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,720 DC reporter Matthew Troy. But there's a debate even among 369 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,440 congressional Texas Republicans about how to go forward with the 370 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:06,400 immigration enforcement that the president wants. Should it be more 371 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,640 targeted towards people who have committed violent crimes, or is 372 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,640 it just a sort of catch all anybody who crosses 373 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,720 an immigration enforcement person that they're they're going to get 374 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,480 picked up and deported. What are you seeing in the 375 00:17:20,519 --> 00:17:23,480 first couple of weeks of this Trump administration on that question. 376 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 5: Yeah, anecdotally, we're seeing that it's it's mostly everyone, like 377 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,440 any if you are undocumented in this country, it appears 378 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,200 this the administration's posture is you are fair game for deportation. 379 00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:40,720 And this was kind of expected. Some people are surprised 380 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:44,799 because they've heard statements such as, you know, Trump and 381 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,559 some of his advisors say that they were going to 382 00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:50,839 prioritize the most heinous criminals, people who've murdered, people who've raped, 383 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,160 people who have been released on bond and then committed 384 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,359 other crimes like they the administry, Trump and his advisors 385 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,240 focus often on these people. But what if I think 386 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,519 people either missed or didn't pay as much attention to, 387 00:18:03,839 --> 00:18:06,720 is that the same people, including Trump and his advisors, 388 00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:09,440 would criminalize everyone by saying, well, if you're in the 389 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,079 country illegally, you've broken a crime, so you are a 390 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:12,599 fair game. 391 00:18:12,759 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 3: And which is what we're seeing now, and that is. 392 00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:16,039 Speaker 5: I think it's fair to say that it is the 393 00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:17,599 administration's posture, the wife. 394 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 3: And the press secretary of exactly. 395 00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, So it's kind of we've seen like kind 396 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,480 of like a this criminalization but be like the acting 397 00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:27,880 on it and being like, you know, well, if you're 398 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,640 a documented we're going to try to deport you. And 399 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,119 we've seen this anecdotally in Texas. My colleagues and I 400 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,640 have reported on that some but also bigger picture, we've 401 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,319 seen some reporting through leaks other publications that people who 402 00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:41,200 have no criminal history are being deported. 403 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,319 Speaker 4: I was like our colleague Oriel wrote a story in 404 00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:48,519 Premel Paso where he interviewed he was like at a 405 00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:51,319 rally against some of this, and he interviewed someone who 406 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:52,880 was like, I voted for Trump and now I'm very 407 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,039 worried he might deport I believe it was like his 408 00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:59,000 his father, a who's undocumented, and I think there was 409 00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:01,640 this sense of like, you know, well, my father is 410 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,799 just you know, working, and he's not hasn't you know, 411 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:06,839 committed some heinous crime, Like I don't think, you know, 412 00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:09,079 Trump would start by going after him. And as we're 413 00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:11,880 seeing now like the way that plays out is is 414 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,319 really surprising. 415 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: A lot of people. 416 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important. I imagine we're 417 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,039 going to get into this, but it's also important to 418 00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:20,759 remember the impact on humans, right Like we're talking like 419 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:24,519 this spreads fear, This raises a lot of concerns, questions. 420 00:19:24,839 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 3: That's actually our next topic. 421 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: But before that, we're going to take a quick break 422 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,160 to hear from our sponsors, Mexico more than just a neighbor. 423 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,039 For a timely cross border insight, turned to former US 424 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:40,160 Ambassador Antonio Garza. Learn more at Tony Garza dot com. 425 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,799 Deliver a Texas sized insight at your next event with 426 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,960 the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Our reporters and editors are 427 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000 ready to bring your event to life with context and 428 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:52,079 analysis only they can deliver. Book us at Texastribune dot org. 429 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,799 Slash Speakers, Alejandro, Let's talk a bit about the impact 430 00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,960 on the endocumented community, which you rightfully brought up. Texas 431 00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:05,759 has the second largest population of undocumented people in the 432 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:09,799 country behind California, largely because of our size. They power 433 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,200 a lot of the industries here, construction and farming, service industry, 434 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,240 food production. What can you say about the impact on 435 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,519 those communities from this immigration crackdown, because I know you've 436 00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:22,279 reported on some of this. 437 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's huge, and it's wide. You know, we're talking 438 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,480 about a very diverse population. It's estimated to be one 439 00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:35,480 point six million people who are undocumented in Texas, and 440 00:20:35,599 --> 00:20:37,240 you know the state has thirty million people, and that's 441 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,720 an estimate, right based off people we can count. So yeah, 442 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,759 they are essential workers. They work restaurants, they pick produce, 443 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,119 but they're also small business owners, their parents, they're members 444 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,720 of communities up and down the state. So that's kind 445 00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:53,720 of why the impact is diverse. But I mean what 446 00:20:53,799 --> 00:20:56,839 we've been reporting on hearing is folks are concerned, lives 447 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:01,720 are already have been changed, even if people aren't being deported. 448 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,799 You know, some some folks are going straight to work 449 00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:06,640 and back home, and you know, maybe like mom, if 450 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,759 she's in American goes grocery shopping, like you know, sometimes 451 00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:12,200 parents aren't selling kids to school, sometimes they're not going 452 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,599 to doctor's appointments. So I think what we're seeing is 453 00:21:16,839 --> 00:21:19,960 this change kind of unfold and it's still, like I 454 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,240 said at the beginning, the plan is still unclear, so 455 00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:24,839 I don't know where it goes from here. But we 456 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,920 do know that people have fear, people have concerns, they're 457 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,079 worried about their loved ones, they're altering their lives and 458 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:32,440 so on. 459 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: And you wrote this very interesting story about an undocumented 460 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,839 man in Lubbock who's pulled over for a traffic violation. 461 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,240 He ended up being referred to federal immigration authorities on 462 00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:45,119 that traffic stop. 463 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,519 Speaker 3: Tell us more about that and what it says about the. 464 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: Overall state of play for immigration enforcement, because I think 465 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,880 you mentioned you mentioned sort of mixed status families, and 466 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,319 this I think was a mic status family as well. 467 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,319 Speaker 3: If you can tell us a little bit more. 468 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, So the story was about a name Husse Albero's 469 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,599 that's his first name, and he's married to an American 470 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,559 citizen and they have three children who were all Americans, 471 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,000 and they went out to buy a baby formula last 472 00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:14,079 month and there was some sort of issue with their 473 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,039 vehicle's tag. So a cop pulls them over and the wife, 474 00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:23,880 her name is Ashley, explains, Hey, my husband's undocumented. He 475 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,599 doesn't have a license, but I don't know how to drive, 476 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,440 which is why he was driving. Hears the car's insurance 477 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,880 and his passport and according to Ashley, who was very 478 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,000 kind to speak with me, the officer was really kind, 479 00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,079 goes back to his vehicle and calls ICE, so and 480 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,920 I shows up and takes Jose and begins removal proceedings. 481 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,519 So now, I mean that's the short version of the story. 482 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:49,960 You could read the whole report text tribute dot org. 483 00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:54,920 But you know, now this family's life has been upended. 484 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,880 He's in removal proceedings, they have hearings, they have a 485 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,880 court date in August, and the government's going to try 486 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,599 to deport him. And this man has been in the 487 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,519 country for several years. And I think to your question 488 00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:09,799 about what it says, you know, we interviewed experts about this, 489 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,440 and it kind of gets at the everyone's fair game idea, 490 00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:17,599 which is like, if an administration sets directives for ICE agents, 491 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,240 you know, like prioritize these people or these people they 492 00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:22,200 focus on that, it's like, all right, those are our efforts. 493 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,079 But here we have one officer at his discretion calling 494 00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:27,440 ICE and ICE being like, we're going to do this, 495 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,839 and now they're deporting this person. So I think that's 496 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,440 what it tells us that there is kind of like 497 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,119 a sort of randomness to the enforcement that it could 498 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,279 be anyone. 499 00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: Right, and that has a deep impact on people in 500 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:42,599 the undocumented community because, like you said, they were just 501 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,720 going about doing a daily chore, a daily necessity kind 502 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,279 of and they were getting baby formulas in. Yeah, so 503 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,359 that sort of definitely complicates their lives, which is, to 504 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,720 be fair, exactly what the administration wants to do and 505 00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:59,519 what immigration hardliners want to be happening, Like they want 506 00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:03,319 their lives to be complicated so that they either don't 507 00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:07,000 come or are eventually caught by federal immigration. 508 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,519 Speaker 4: And we should say, like the Trump administration has rolled 509 00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:13,079 back some there were some protections or sort of guidelines 510 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,759 on where ICE agents would wouldn't go, right, Like they 511 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:22,480 wouldn't go into health care facilities, they wouldn't go into churches, right, schools, schools, Yes, schools, 512 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,640 that's the other one, Yes, schools, churches, health care facilities. 513 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,119 And that has now been rolled back. And so I 514 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,240 think there's sort of a sense of like, you know, 515 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,039 anyone anywhere is at potential at risk, which right as 516 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,680 seen as a deterrent, but for the people that are 517 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,319 already here, like it's also like those people who have 518 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:40,680 to go to work or those you know. 519 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,759 Speaker 1: Right, and this person was I think in some immigration 520 00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:44,880 proceedings did you mention that other? 521 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, they were trying to get a green card, so 522 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,200 as you know, which is a long, arduous, expensive process. 523 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,039 They had a lawyer, so you know the way that 524 00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:55,640 their lawyer looks at it, and she also spoke to 525 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,880 me for the story is in a lot of ways, 526 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,279 like according to the sis them, however you read it 527 00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:03,759 is like he kind of went about it the right 528 00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:06,880 way after being here, which is he met someone, they 529 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,799 fell in love, they had kids, they got married, and 530 00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:13,359 they were going through the proceedings and now they are 531 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,519 presented with a sort of existential question of well, you know, 532 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:18,519 should he be deported? What are we going to do 533 00:25:18,519 --> 00:25:19,119 as a family. 534 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's the sort of thinking that 535 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,160 a lot of people in the immigrant community are thinking, 536 00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:31,799 like how many risks can I take? Because, like I said, 537 00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:34,079 they were just doing a daily necessity. Which will be 538 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,640 interesting and potentially complicating that even more is what our 539 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,880 state officials want to do. At the state level, We've 540 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,319 seen Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick push a priority bill that 541 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,559 would require cities and counties to cooperate with federal immigration 542 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,240 enforcement Elmaric, Can you just chime in here a little 543 00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:58,599 bit about what that kind of legislation, which inevitably is 544 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,559 going to be controversial at the legislature, Democrats will strongly 545 00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:07,680 push back against that, what that kind of bill would 546 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,119 do to a session that so far everybody seems like 547 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,039 they're behavior and they're. 548 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 2: All friendly, they're all good. 549 00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think any bill that is controversial, 550 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:21,200 and we should say, like a bill like that is 551 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,880 controversial in two fronts, right, immigration, but also this question 552 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,480 of like local control and preemption and how much can 553 00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:30,039 the state tell these big cities what to do and 554 00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:34,359 how to run their their their governments basically is just 555 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:37,200 potentially something that can like grind the whole thing to 556 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,200 a halt. And I think, you know, anytime you I think, 557 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:45,079 as we talked about last week, right, Dan Patrick forty priorities, 558 00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:49,039 certainly feels like he has the enough control over the 559 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:52,039 Senate to like push through what he wants. But anytime 560 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:54,759 you're throwing something controversial in the mix, you are potentially 561 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,920 it takes time. It takes like floor fights, it takes 562 00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:02,559 horse trading, its negotiations to the conference committees, like you're 563 00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:05,359 just dragging it out in a session where I mean, 564 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,279 obviously Governor Abbott has says he supports this measure. But 565 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,519 Governor Abbott Republican leadership the House certainly seems to have 566 00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:14,799 blinders on and saying like, we have one thing to 567 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:19,920 do this session, like pass vouchers, stay focused, use our 568 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,680 capital on that, and now we maybe are going to 569 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,720 throw this in the mix, right, And. 570 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,079 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about Governor Abbott's uh, I guess 571 00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,319 position on this is that he did throw out support 572 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,160 for this, but it's not an emergency item, it's not 573 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,640 a priority item. So I think that sort of tells 574 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,640 you something. I think he probably thinks he can get done. 575 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,799 But like you said, the blind Now, sure are the 576 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,440 goals he laid out seven of them that are mostly 577 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,599 in line with what Speaker Borroughs has said he wants 578 00:27:44,599 --> 00:27:47,400 to get done. And so if you got to focus 579 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,480 on these seven, do you really want to be taking 580 00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:52,960 up a big fight over here over something that's definitely 581 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:57,680 gonna split Democrats and Republicans and potentially even some Republicans. 582 00:27:57,319 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 4: Right, It's like a yeah, it's like just like do 583 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,240 not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars pass vouchers, 584 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,799 and like shot of about the rest of it seems 585 00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:08,200 to be some vibes that were getting even while govern 586 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,440 abs throwing his support behind some other measures. 587 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: Aljandro, just taking it back one step, can you sort 588 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,359 of just give us a just context about like how 589 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,599 the numbers are in terms of migrant crossings compared to 590 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,279 when President Biden was in office or the first Trump administration, 591 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,720 Like how necessary are some of these enforcement measures that 592 00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:29,240 we're seeing. 593 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 5: Well, I think those are two questions. The border's quiet. 594 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,559 I think a quiet border got even quieter since Trump 595 00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:40,079 took office, and it started getting quiet kind of last 596 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,039 year really from record number of illegal crossings in December 597 00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:51,519 twenty twenty three, Biden implemented a couple orders that really 598 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,039 kind of helped reduce that. According to his advisors when 599 00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:57,839 they were in office, they took credit, but also a 600 00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:01,240 big part of his Mexico's enforcement in some countries in 601 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:05,319 Central America. But essentially what we're seeing is low numbers, 602 00:29:05,599 --> 00:29:08,279 Fewer people than in recent years are trying to cross 603 00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:12,039 the border. Now, the second question you ask, is this necessary? Well, 604 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,200 I mean, I think that's an opinion and the current president, 605 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,480 President Trump, it is of the opinion that it is 606 00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:21,799 he's declared an invasion, he still thinks like the hundreds 607 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:24,359 of crossings that we're seeing now is enough to merit 608 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,039 his actions. Will that be challenged, that ever means to 609 00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:29,480 be seen. 610 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, And important to note Mexico's participation in this, because 611 00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:37,359 they certainly had a lot of tough enforcement on their 612 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,359 southern border and now they've got enforcement on their northern border. 613 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:43,880 Mexican President Claudia Schinbaum has sent I think ten thousand 614 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,960 National Guard troops of her own national Guard up there 615 00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:52,160 in this sort of trade over stopping terroiffts, so they're 616 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,880 playing a role as well. But it seems like a 617 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,880 lot of it is also just politics of like he 618 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,240 made these campaign promises and he wants to deliver on them. 619 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 620 00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:04,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the other thing we should I mean 621 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,079 is like all of this is happening so fast in 622 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:08,960 the beginning of the administration sort of as promised. I 623 00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:12,480 think that's what we expected, and there will it takes 624 00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:14,640 some time for like the impact to be seen, obviously 625 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,279 in terms of border crossings, in terms of deportations, but 626 00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:19,039 also in terms of like you know, there was a 627 00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:22,640 lot of outrage during the last Trump administration about you know, 628 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,279 family separation and sort of the way these policies were 629 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:28,400 being implemented. It took a little while for like them 630 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,039 to be fully implemented and people to become aware of 631 00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:33,480 them and there to be sort of more pushback against them. 632 00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:38,640 And so I think, you know, we've seen protests already 633 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,119 at the capital about immigration. I think we've seen protests 634 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,559 and cities across the state, across the country about President 635 00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:46,720 Trump' immigration policies. But I also think that I think 636 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,440 we can expect pretty significant political pushback on this, depending 637 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,079 on like how this all plays out. 638 00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:55,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe if people start realizing. 639 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, like the situation that you wrote about 640 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,240 where it's a mixed at this family, there's a person 641 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:07,200 who's an American citizen but their partner is not. You know, 642 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,440 people have family members and have good friends that are 643 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,119 undocumented and they I mean, if they're friends, they may 644 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,400 not know it. If they are family, they definitely know it. 645 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,759 And if something happens to those people, there is potential 646 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:20,640 for that backlash. So it'll be interesting to see how 647 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:21,240 that plays out. 648 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, And like if you you know the price of 649 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,200 food or eggs goes up because we don't have people work. 650 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,880 You know, It's like, right, some of that takes a 651 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,119 while to develop. But I do think you know, President 652 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,160 Trump's like very focused energy on this issue means like 653 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,039 a lot is changing really fast, and how the impact 654 00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:40,799 of all of those changes sort of may take a 655 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:41,799 little bit longer to see. 656 00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,559 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's also I think that's also like a big 657 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,400 question that means to be seen that my colleagues and 658 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,599 I haven't covered as much, but I've read other coverage. 659 00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:53,200 It's like, well, what does that resistance look like? Because 660 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,119 definitely in Texas, so we haven't seen any mayors or 661 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,279 county judges you know, really pick a fight, be like 662 00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,640 we're not in this. And part part of that might 663 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,480 be fear. I mean Trump ordered feral prosecutors to investigate 664 00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:08,359 such local officials who get in the way. So I 665 00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:10,720 think that that's also a big question as we look ahead. 666 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 3: Okay, cool, I think that's a good place to stop. 667 00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 2: But one can I say one more thing before we go. 668 00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:20,119 Speaker 3: Sure, we would. 669 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 4: Be remiss if we did not wish a happy birthday 670 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:28,079 to our Texas Tribune trip cast co host James dash Bargun. 671 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,759 Speaker 3: And you want to sing? 672 00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:33,839 Speaker 2: You told that's what we wanted to sing. Actually, yes, yes, no, 673 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:34,440 Happy birthday. 674 00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 3: Okay, thank you James. 675 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: We're gonna end the conversation here, but one of reminder 676 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,200 of listeners. If you have bringing questions for us that 677 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,640 you want us to discuss about the latest in Texas politics, 678 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:47,200 please send them to trip cast at Texastribune dot org 679 00:32:47,319 --> 00:32:48,799 and we will try to get them on a segment 680 00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:52,640 of the show. Again, that's trip Cast at Texastribune dot org. 681 00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:55,599 We hope to hear from you. That's all the time 682 00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:57,400 we have for this week's episode of the trip Cast. 683 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,319 Don't forget to like and subscribe to our feed and 684 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,839 to leave feed back on the podcast app of your 685 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,119 choice to help other listeners find us, and please recommend 686 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,319 the show to a friend. Thank you to our sponsors, 687 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:11,559 former US Ambassador to Mexico Antonio Garza, and the Texas 688 00:33:11,599 --> 00:33:16,000 Tribune Speakers Bureau. Our producers are Rob Avila and Chris Phoboda. 689 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,880 Our theme music is composed by Rob. Join us again 690 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:19,480 next week