WEBVTT 1 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.439 Hello, and welcome back to We're Not So Different, a 2 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:38.759 podcast about how I've always been idiots. My name is Luke, 3 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:43.759 and as always I am joined by doctor Eleanor. And yeah, 4 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:47.119 we are here today. We've entered a strange new world, 5 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:48.079 and we also. 6 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:48.359 Have a guest. 7 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:53.560 So yeah, we have a couple of questions from patrons 8 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:57.039 that we'll get to later on during the interview. 9 00:00:57.240 --> 00:00:59.000 So yeah, let's get to it, folks. 10 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:01.840 It's very rare that we cover a topic on this 11 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:04.519 show for which there is no real medieval analog. 12 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:05.519 We hear it. 13 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.519 We're Not So Different Incorporated pride ourselves on finding the 14 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.599 connections to the paths, both major and minor, and extrapolating 15 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:13.799 them to our current day. But in this case, we 16 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:16.799 just can't do it. There was no medieval version of 17 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:21.239 wide public opinion polling outside of the peasant showing up 18 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:22.599 with torches and pitchforks. 19 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:24.040 And while we do. 20 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:28.239 Appreciate those outbursts of justifiable anger, they lack the sample 21 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:31.760 size and rigor we expect from good polling. No one 22 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:34.879 ever stopped to ask these angry peasants about their demographic 23 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.959 factors so we could get appropriate cross tabs. For God's sakes. 24 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:41.599 Opinion polling was a much later in vision that came 25 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:43.959 about after the expansion of the franchise and the rise 26 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:48.120 of the post French Revolution liberal world order, and it 27 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:52.359 very rarely directly concerns the Middle Ages, let alone specifically 28 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.640 catering to them. Thus, in the more than two hundred 29 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.079 episodes we've done, we never really had a cause to 30 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:02.000 talk about opinion polling of any kind until now. In 31 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:06.480 early twenty twenty five, the British market research group YouGov 32 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:10.680 performed an opinion poll focusing on American views of the 33 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:16.639 Middle Ages, and the results were pleasantly surprising a listener, 34 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:19.360 I know what you're thinking, your old co host Luke 35 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:21.800 is being a bit too hyperbolic again, but I'm really not. 36 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:25.000 The Dark Age is myth that has long haunted medieval 37 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.960 studies and conceptions, is now below fifty percent in America, 38 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.319 which might luck not sound like much, but it's a vast, 39 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:36.960 vast improvement from a decade ago. At least Anecdotally speaking, 40 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:40.680 thirty percent find the Middle Ages interesting, while only fifteen 41 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:43.879 percent described it as backwards, which is great. 42 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:45.039 And in something of a coup. 43 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:47.520 More Americans think about the Middle Ages on a weekly 44 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.280 basis than think about the Roman Empire on the weekly 45 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:54.319 basis suck at antiquity. Now, of course, there are some 46 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:57.319 define areas improvement, especially that thirty two percent of a 47 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.800 positive view of the Crusades and Saladin's criminally low favorability, 48 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.560 but overall, thumbs up. Why am I telling you all 49 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:06.560 this Why because we have a guest here to talk 50 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:09.280 about these results with us. David Montgomery is a senior 51 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.479 data journalist with you gov, and he also runs an 52 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:18.039 interesting and informative podcast, The Siekla, which covers French history 53 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:20.319 from the fall of Napoleon to World War One. 54 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:22.879 David wrote the article. 55 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:25.919 Summarizing these poll results on American views of the Middle 56 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:28.240 Ages and has a lot to share about them. So 57 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:31.680 we're glad he's joined us. First up, David, how the 58 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:32.240 hell are you? 59 00:03:33.639 --> 00:03:36.520 Well, I'm getting the opportunity to talk about both history 60 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.240 and polling, so I think it's a pretty good morning 61 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:39.560 for me. 62 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:40.240 Nice. 63 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:45.039 Yeah, okay, real quick before we start, Well, actually two things. One, 64 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.759 Eleanor has been delayed, so actually it's just being David 65 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:51.919 for the moment. Eleanor will be along shortly. But yeah, 66 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:57.120 you're just hanging out on boys chat for the moment. Actually, 67 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:00.680 I probably shouldn't have said that without asking first. I'll 68 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.120 probably edit that part out anyway. I'm sorry about that 69 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:09.639 if I assume something incorrectly regardless. Okay, real quick, before 70 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:12.560 we start, here's a friendly note to listeners. We're going 71 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.360 to start out with a quick discussion of the poll methodology, 72 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.160 so those of you who aren't terribly familiar with how 73 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:21.360 poles are conducted can get a better sense for the process. Also, 74 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:23.680 for those of you who are hostile to numbers in math, 75 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.480 there will be some talk of that during the show, 76 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.600 but we will contextualize them, we swear. Also a post 77 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.639 links to the articles in the show notes, so you 78 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:32.279 could check out the full thing and the poll and 79 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:36.120 graphics we mentioned. Just don't do it while you're driving, please, 80 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:39.839 for the love of God. Anyway, David, we had two patrons, 81 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.839 Shiloh and Evelyn, who requested more info on how this 82 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:48.199 poll was conducted. So what was the sample size and 83 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:50.519 how were the possible participants selected? 84 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.199 Yeah, so this was a poll of two and thirty 85 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:04.079 US adult citizens conducted this past month. Sorry, it was 86 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.879 conducted in February. I've written that published this past month 87 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:13.120 after a unplanned introduction from a after an unplanned delay 88 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:15.519 from printal leave when a baby decided to come a 89 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:16.279 few weeks early. 90 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:19.920 But yeah, so. 91 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.680 Like just to just start at really basics. I mean, 92 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.279 you reader are probably familiar with the idea of you 93 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.600 can just conduct a poll on your social media site 94 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:32.560 or stand at the street corner ask people questions, and 95 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.000 that's great, but that will only be representative of the 96 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.399 people you talk to, the people who respond to the poll. 97 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.720 What YOUGA does and as well as many of our competitors, 98 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:47.360 is a scientific polling. And the key insight there, nearly 99 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.519 a century old now is that instead of just talking 100 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:53.959 to walking up to people and talking to them, if 101 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.560 you contact people in some form of randomness, you can 102 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.879 get a sample that you talk to that is representative 103 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:06.680 of the broader population more or less. And pollsters have 104 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.839 spent the past century trying to refine techniques to account 105 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.480 for sources of error and get more and more accurate. 106 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.879 But polls have been able to regularly test themselves against 107 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:21.319 provable things like election results and things like that, and 108 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.879 in general the methodology is fairly reliable. Certainly the best 109 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:30.639 we have right now, The most standard way is pure randomization. 110 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:33.759 You might randomly dial numbers from the phone book, or 111 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:37.360 get a full list of say every voter in the 112 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:41.279 country and dial random numbers from that. You GOV is 113 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:43.600 slightly different, and I won't go into the technical details, 114 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.959 but you have basically has a panel of many, many 115 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.319 people who've signed up to take polls, and then we 116 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:55.040 randomly select from them. And I am assured by people 117 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:58.399 smarter than me that the math works out, and we 118 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.720 have a pretty good track record with elections and other 119 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:03.920 things like that. But because this is a scientific poll, 120 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:07.959 this is representative of the US adult citizen population and 121 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.399 not just of the people who happen to take the pole. 122 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:14.480 Yeah, yeah, so you know, just for people who you 123 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:18.439 know might have a question about it. How is a 124 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:22.079 sample size of twenty two hundred and thirty people representative 125 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:24.279 of a country of three hundred and fifty million. 126 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:27.319 Again, this is the math. 127 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:30.720 Year gets pretty complicated, and I I'll go into that 128 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.040 for anyone, but two hundred people is actually more than 129 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:37.639 you need to be representative of the roughly two hundred 130 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:42.399 and sixty million US adult citizens in the in the country. 131 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:44.120 You know, if all you care about is the top 132 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.279 line results, you can get by with a national poll 133 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.759 of maybe eight hundred people and still be reasonably accurate. 134 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:54.879 The bigger sample size is mostly they do two things. One, 135 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.399 they get you smaller margin of error, so you can 136 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.240 be have more precision and confidence that you're your answers 137 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.480 are the actually reflective of the population. And the other 138 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:06.120 thing that lets you do is slice and dice your 139 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:09.800 numbers what are called cross tabs, So rather than just 140 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.680 looking at, you know, the percent of people who agree 141 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:13.439 with the question, you can look at the percent of 142 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.120 men and women who agree with the question, or the 143 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:20.079 percent of people eighteen to twenty nine and thirty to 144 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.519 thirty four, various different demographic slices that are often we're 145 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:27.160 the most interesting parts of a poll. Lie, and well, 146 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:29.000 I'll be sharing some of those as we get on 147 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:29.839 into this discussion. 148 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.799 Yeah, thank you very much for that. Yeah, we don't 149 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:36.600 want the math here, but just so people know that 150 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:42.120 a sample size of that number is still representative for 151 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:43.120 a big country. 152 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.120 And I will post some. 153 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.240 Links to how sample sizes can be calculated if you 154 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.120 want to, if listeners want to look more into that. 155 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:54.399 It is a lot of math, though, So just saying this. 156 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:56.519 Poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 157 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.080 three percentage points on the top line numbers, which. 158 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:01.840 Is it's pretty good for poles. 159 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:03.200 A lot of a lot of the big national ones 160 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:05.639 you see might have plus or minus five percent if 161 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:06.879 they're using a smaller sample. 162 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:07.559 Nice. 163 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:12.759 Yeah, So how are these questions and possible responses formulated? 164 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:13.480 Uh? 165 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:15.919 Mostly I wrote the poll. 166 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:20.720 I had some input from the historian U Matt Gabriel, 167 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.120 co author of the recent book The Bright Ages, which 168 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.919 some of you may have heard of about sort of 169 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:31.399 a polemic defending the idea of defending the Middle Ages 170 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.399 and opposing the idea of the Dark Ages, another topic 171 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:36.120 we'll we'll talk about shortly. 172 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:37.799 And all. 173 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.919 You know, I'd run a separate poll about people's conceptions 174 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.039 of the Roman Empire last year. So in many cases 175 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.639 I was simply mirroring the structure of that, which sort 176 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.080 of made it simpler. But you know, there are a 177 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.320 couple of questions I wanted to get at the Dark 178 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:57.720 Ages question there, you know, I asked about a selection 179 00:09:57.799 --> 00:09:59.879 of medieval people to see how many people had heard 180 00:09:59.879 --> 00:10:02.240 of and whether they had positive or negative opinions of them. 181 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:06.679 I asked about some concepts like how many people have 182 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:12.480 a positive opinion of castles. We'll get into that as well. 183 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.200 And then you just tried to, you know, get it 184 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:17.840 in a range of things. I ask people how much 185 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.080 they thought they knew about the Middle Ages, which then 186 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:23.360 let us split up the responses by people who thought 187 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:24.879 they knew a lot, and people who thought they knew 188 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:26.720 a little, and people who thought they knew nothing at all. 189 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:32.519 And yeah, And finally did an experiment where I gave 190 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:36.600 people a list of years and events and asked them 191 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:37.639 is this medieval? 192 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:40.639 I like that? Yeah. 193 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.960 Rather than just saying, like, hey, which is close to 194 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.360 your opinion? Did the Middle Ages end in fourteen fifty 195 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:52.399 three or sixteen hundred or which people have no context for, 196 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:55.960 I tried to do sort of build a more organic sample. 197 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.120 Like you know, some people think the Middle Ages go 198 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.240 back all the way to the Roman most people don't. 199 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:03.080 Some people think they go all the way forward to 200 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.480 the French Revolution, but most people don't. But pretty much 201 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:08.639 everyone says that, like you know, fourteen hundred is medieval, 202 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:11.879 and so you can sort of get a probabilistic representation 203 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:12.879 of how that works. 204 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:18.840 Yeah, And you know, lastly, you were talking about knowledge 205 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:20.919 of the Middle Ages and stuff, So how would you 206 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.840 write your own knowledge of the Middle Ages. Is it 207 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.559 something you studied or is it an interest or you know, 208 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:27.720 how would you write that for yourself? 209 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.399 I'd say I'm a competent amateur in terms of my 210 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.679 knowledge of the Middle Ages, nice probably, which the term 211 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:36.759 means that I probably know more about it than anyone 212 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:38.360 I meet on the street and a daily basis, but 213 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.519 also less than any specialist that I meet on a 214 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:42.320 daily basis. 215 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:43.840 There we go. 216 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:45.639 Yeah, I got. 217 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.279 Into I've been into it interests in the Middle Ages 218 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:51.559 I was a kid. Obviously, Fantasy novels a big jumping 219 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:53.519 off point for I think interest in the Middle Ages. 220 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:58.240 David mcaulay's book Castle that illustrated sort of the history 221 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:02.879 of the construction and Cejmcastle was a uh help radicalize 222 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:06.279 me on this topic. Uh uh you know, I've tried 223 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.919 to read interesting pop history books about the topic as 224 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.360 the years have gone by, Like I read The Distant 225 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:16.639 Mirror in high school and uh generally kept reading that 226 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:21.000 and then podcasts of course excellent source of information. Blogs 227 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:25.440 like the historian Brett Devereaux a few other places have 228 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:30.159 been sort of helped build a general baseline knowledge of 229 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.480 the Middle Ages. That is, as I said, more than 230 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.720 the average lay person, but less than the average specialist. 231 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.879 Sounds good. Yeah, well, thank you again for coming on 232 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:46.840 this show. So you know what, uh what what were 233 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:51.840 some of the big surprises in this that that you 234 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.519 saw when you had it? So I guess if I 235 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:58.240 if I was going to describe kind of what we 236 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:00.840 see here for people who haven't already looked at. 237 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:02.600 It, they. 238 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:10.879 Basically there there are people who still call it dark, 239 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.000 you know, the Dark Ages, and you know that seems 240 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:15.600 to be about forty eight percent. 241 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:16.279 But like. 242 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.840 You know, when when they're at Americans are asked to 243 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.759 describe the Middle Ages, uh, the first word is violent, 244 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:27.120 which was which which was fifty four percent, which you 245 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:31.039 know I can't argue with that. Dark came in at 246 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.039 forty eight percent, which is not what we want to see. 247 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:38.759 But religious is forty one percent dirty you know, there 248 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.720 are a lot of connotations to that, but you know, poor, 249 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:45.559 But then interesting is it thirty percent? So like you 250 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.799 you kind of get a mix of it, but it 251 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.320 is I do think very heartening that. 252 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.879 The question. 253 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:57.879 Which is closer to your understanding of the European Middle Ages. 254 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.240 First it was a dark gage that things were objectively 255 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:03.559 worse in this period than what came before or after, 256 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.840 or it was complicated, messy period, neither better nor worse 257 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:11.120 than any other. Obviously, listeners know how we hear, we 258 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.960 know it's a different feel. But actually fifty two of 259 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:19.399 Americans said that it was complicated, as compared to forty 260 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.039 eight percent saying it's a dark age, And that to 261 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.879 me is a big deal. So like, what? What are 262 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.879 these responses? Kind of surprised you either good or bad? 263 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.799 Yeah, I mean, I have an asset pole in the past, 264 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:35.080 so I can't speak to how views are changing on 265 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:35.679 this topic. 266 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.799 This was a closer split. 267 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.679 On that second question, of which come closer to understanding 268 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:46.000 than I was expecting. I probably would expected more people 269 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:50.320 saying that it was a dark age than did that, certainly, 270 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:55.080 and even split was was very interesting. There's some when 271 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:59.000 you dive into it, there's some interesting breakdowns. For example, 272 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:00.720 younger people were more like to say that it was 273 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:03.240 a complicated, messy period, and older people were more likely 274 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:06.240 to call the Middle Ages the dark age. And I 275 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.480 don't know, you know, it's always hard to tell them. 276 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.200 Polling like does it is this a lifestyle or effect? 277 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:14.480 Is this to like older people just by being old, 278 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.799 you're more likely to think of something. Or is this 279 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.000 maybe more of a structural effect that the education system 280 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:23.080 fifty years ago taught one thing, in the education today 281 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.720 teaches something new that makes sense. 282 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:27.360 But I can't prove. 283 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:29.600 Anything one way or the other about why this is happening. 284 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.159 Also not super surprising, but the more someone thought they 285 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:36.639 knew about the Middle Ages, the more likely they were 286 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.279 to call it a complicated, messy period rather than a 287 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.360 dark age, which I mean make sense that if you 288 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.320 care enough about the Middle Ages to learn about it, 289 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.360 I think it's it's likely that something about the period 290 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.519 interests you, and you're maybe less likely to view it 291 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:57.720 with pejorative approaches. Certainly there could be exceptions, I suppose, 292 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:00.759 But and then you also mentioned other question I have 293 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:05.159 where I sort of gave this long list of adjectives 294 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.320 and asked people to say, pick as many as you 295 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:12.080 think describe the Middle Ages to you. And I think 296 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:16.039 unsurprising that, as you said, the top adjectives were tended 297 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:22.080 to be pretty negative, violent, dark, dirty, poor, Depending on 298 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.279 how you your view on faith, religious could be seen 299 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.559 as neutral or positive or negative. We had there are 300 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.639 other options on there that were chosen interesting. Thirty percent 301 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.720 of people describe the Middle Ages as interesting, love to 302 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:39.919 see it, thirteen percent said heroic, ten percent said innovative, 303 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:41.080 ten percent said romantic. 304 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:42.440 That was lower than I. 305 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.440 Expected, given sort of the the views of castles and 306 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.840 knights and chivalry and all that. Only five percent said 307 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:54.480 they were boring. Yeah, and only three percent said they 308 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:55.279 were bright, So. 309 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.320 Uh, well, we got to get number. 310 00:16:57.639 --> 00:16:59.639 But yeah, David Perry and Matt Gabriel have some work 311 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.360 to do the their but clearly not resonating fully yet. 312 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.240 But yeah, I mean getting people to recognize that it's 313 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.880 bright is going to take a lot longer, I think. 314 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:16.880 But you know, violent, I mean I do necessarily think 315 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:21.400 it's more violent than any other era, especially not now, 316 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.240 given you know, how the percentages of people, the number 317 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.400 of people killed in you know, the last few centuries 318 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:31.440 and all that sort of stuff. But I can't really 319 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.960 say that it wasn't violent. It was definitely religious, and 320 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:39.720 I mean it was dirty compared to what we have 321 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.799 now and you know, poor. But I think interesting at 322 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.920 thirty percent is really good and it and back only 323 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:51.599 fifteen percent on backwards, which is you know, as we 324 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:57.759 get the thing down, like if if we eleanor Eleanor 325 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.200 speaks about this a lot, but like it is technically 326 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:05.079 a dark age in the sense that we have fewer records. 327 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.480 So like if some of the people who mean a 328 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.519 dark age are talking about it in that respect, you know, 329 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.599 then that's not necessarily wrong. It's it's going to be 330 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.039 hard to like find that in any kind of polling 331 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.640 because that's a very granular question. But the fact that 332 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:26.039 only fit that forty eight percent suggested dark well, only 333 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.440 fifteen percent suggested backwards, and then only five percent say 334 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:35.119 boring is very is a very good conclusion to me, 335 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.319 at least from like our perspective of trying to uh 336 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.039 get gen up more interest in the Middle Agesn't just 337 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.200 you know, a proper understanding of history more generally, So 338 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:47.079 I think, yeah, we. 339 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.559 See, we see a lot of that here. I was. 340 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.440 I got to say, I was kind of when you 341 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.119 talked about, you know, favorable views of these concepts. You know, 342 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.119 you had castles and chivalry and monasteries, and then the 343 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.799 Gregorian chant only got thirty six percent favorability, and I 344 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.319 was like. 345 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.079 A lot a lot of people have commented that probably 346 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.079 would have been hired to ask us in the late nineties. 347 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.200 That's a good point. 348 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.799 Yeah, you asked this when the video game Halo came 349 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.640 out and everybody and that that bad boys like eighty 350 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:19.799 seven percent. They're like, yeah, I love playing that game 351 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.880 with my friends. 352 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:25.279 Yeah, uh so. 353 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:27.119 Yeah. 354 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:29.240 So I mean for this question, I sort of tried 355 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.880 to pick a range of topics, some that I thought 356 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.759 most people would like, like castles and chivalry both have 357 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.400 sort of fairly positive connotations. Seventy five percent of Americans 358 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:43.000 have a favorable view of castles. Yeah, which don't I 359 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.079 assume those those are step archers. 360 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:50.440 Yes, yeah, the remnants of the Mongols and the Seljic Turks, 361 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.519 or at the gates baying ah, what is wrong with you? 362 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:56.799 Very unfavorable, very unfavorable. 363 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.359 They're just slamming. Yeah, they're slamming the Uh this is 364 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:01.119 a button there. 365 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.680 I will pause to make a point here that, you know, 366 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.799 as we talk about some of these favorable and unfavorable ratings, 367 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.359 I think a common move that a lot of people 368 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:16.200 make when interpreting polls, especially polls of you know, maybe 369 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.720 less salient topics like the Middle Ages that are maybe 370 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.119 not central to most people's daily lives Present Company accepted 371 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.279 as they look at a number like, you know, seven 372 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:28.680 percent of people of an unfavorable opinion of Castle's or 373 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.920 nine percent of people have say they have a favorable 374 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:35.359 opinion of the Black Plague. And you know, I'm sure 375 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.759 some of those people may be long Duray historians, like 376 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.079 the fact that it contributed to a rising standards of 377 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:43.400 living and things like that. 378 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:43.880 But. 379 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.559 More in polling, Polling is not quite as precise as 380 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:50.839 I think a lot of people would like it to be, 381 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:56.519 especially sort of these extremes, and there's a tendency to 382 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:01.119 get higher numbers of these really rare views in a poll, 383 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.039 then you'd ordinarily get compared to like if you're pulling 384 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.200 something that everybody thinks about, like you know, what's your 385 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:08.599 do you like or just like the. 386 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:09.799 President or something like that. 387 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:13.880 So I think if you see like nine percent of 388 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.759 people have a favorite opinion of the Black Plague, the 389 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.000 right answer response is not to say why is that 390 00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:22.599 number not lower? It's to say, oh, that's a really 391 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.960 low number. That's lower than anything else in the survey. 392 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:30.000 This is the least popular topic. But yeah, you know, 393 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:33.519 one thing I didn't do was I did not like 394 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.880 test how much people knew about these topics. I didn't say, like, 395 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:39.799 you know, you said you had a favorale opinion of 396 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:41.359 one hundred years War? Can you describe what the one 397 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:43.960 hundred Year's War is? Just to prove I didn't do 398 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.039 any of that. I'm testing vibes, impressions. Yeah, yeah, broad 399 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:52.079 broad feelings, and I'm sure some people don't have deep knowledges. 400 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.319 We're like, oh, war, that sounds bad. I have an 401 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:56.240