Speaker 1: What is up Fellasi Goo's I'm Dapa Valley coming at
you with another twenty twenty five twenty twenty six NBA
season look ahead. We are on to the Detroit Pistons,
which means it's time to talk to Laz Jackson. He
is an editor for Detroit Bad Boys. Follow him on
the social Machines at Las Chance. That's at laz Cha
n ce Las. How the heck are you doing? This
is gonna be a different conversation than we've had over
the past five, six, seven years about the Pistons. I
think I.
Speaker 2: Think so too, Dan. I'm doing well. I'm happy to
be here, I'm excited to be here. I was telling
you in the pre show how I re upped on
my season tickets and if you had asked me, would
I do that, like three years ago, the answer had
been like no, Like never. It was like, this is
We're finally in a space I feel comfortable shoveling thousands
of dollars to this team.
Speaker 1: That's big new. Honest. I think we could end the
episode right there, and that's just encapsulate it's where Yeah,
so man, last season, just if you go back and
listen to our off season discussion doesn't really turn anything
out like we were expecting, per se. What's like your
I hate to boil on town to this, what's like
the single biggest revelation or takeaway you had from how
last year just sort of unfolded.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing you have to take away
from last year was the on court and off court
leadership role Cad Cunningham took and the elevation of his
game to an all NBA level talent, and how that
accelerated what the Pistons were looking to do right. There
was so many moments last year where Cad came out
and settled these guys in, made the correct play, made
the right decisions, got them in a space where winning
felt like something that was supposed to happen as opposed
to something that like occasionally occurred right to me, like
that that was his, like little that was his like
so lowercase s star season. Like we will get into
kid later, I'm sure, but if you ask me, like
what my main takeaway was is like, Okay, we finally
got like a guy we can build everything around in
Kate and we know that for sure when you when
you hear the trade in Langdon's like postseason press availability,
like he kind of says the same thing, right, We like, Okay,
we finally got this team in a space where we
like everything. We've built in the shooting You and me, Dan,
we've talked about shooting around kid for literally his entire career.
They finally put that in place, and like you see
the results, and so now now it becomes a matter of, Okay,
what are the ancillary secondary pieces that we need to
put around this guy. Answering some of those questions is
the important thing for the short and long term. But
for now, they have a capitol g guy, which is
what you need in the NBA to succeed, especially what
you need in the Eastern Conference, which is really weak
right now, to succeed, and they can build on that.
That's that's my big takeaway.
Speaker 1: I think that has to be the biggest takeaway because
it's like he's the most important player in the building
even before last season, and now it's there was questions.
You and I didn't really fall on this end of
the spectrum, but there are just questions is he that guy?
And to know he's that guy is huge. I think
what also kind of struck me last year was and
I think this this has to do with JB. Bickerstaff,
And I'm curious your thoughts on what were like the
biggest stylistical or philosophical differences you noticed from the Monty
Williams era that lasted. Was that a decade? I don't
know how long that Monty Williams are.
Speaker 2: It felt like a decade, Dan, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: But I think what also struck me is just so
you made some changes, but like the defense gets a
lot better without focusing on adding a bunch of like
defense of I know you have a sar Thompson and
you drafted Ron Hall in the second. That struck me
the ability to like they still were able to get
like Ron Hall in the second played in a lot
of games even though the Pistons were winning, and then
you just get to the playoffs and like it wasn't
just a happy to be here situation, and I get
you know, that's the most recent thing we've seen from
the Pistons, like, notwithstanding Summer League. So it just struck
me to where it was, oh, like, are they just
on the precipice of something even better than we thought?
This regular Like that entire Knick series was like a
few calls just from going the Pistons's way probably, And
that's kind of insane to think about when you go
back and reflect upon where this team was this time
last year when you and I were talking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the the thing that JB really instilled
in this team was a sense of identity, which is
like kind of nebulous, right, And it's also it's funny
because like it's a little played up. It's like, oh,
their defense, their identity is like defense and getting on
train position and making shots, and like, oh, a Detroit's
team's identity is defense, Like how shocking, Like how new,
how novel? But it really you could tell that they
were just much more certain of what everyone on the
court was supposed to be doing on both ends of
the floor. Was it always like the most inventive basketball
genius stuff I had ever seen in my life? No,
there were large stretches in which the entire plan for
like offensive bench units was like, hey, maleik, can you
make four threes in six minutes and just like keep
things going? And he did it sometimes and that was great,
but the team like knew but like the team knew
that was the plan, right if nothing else, Like at
least all five guys are following the same plan. When
you when you looked at Monty Williams, there was just
no no sense of cohesion, no sense of idea identity,
no sense of like what everybody was supposed to be doing,
and not even like in a oh these guys are
competing way in a like like like did I mess up?
Did you mess up? Like? Did did? It was like
was there something like two rotations ago that got messed up?
And like that's where everything went and there was all
just so much less of that this year, and that
was so valuable. It was kind of kind of budenholz
Er esque, right, and that if you if you take
care of all of like the little things like that
compounds enough to where you get to a space where
like again, like winning is something that's supposed to happen,
as opposed to something like occasionally happens.
Speaker 1: Looking at the actual off season, they got thrown a
curveball with the Malik Beasley stuff. Yeah he could still
tell and we come back. They have the non bird rights.
Whatever ends up happening the gambling probe, he might be
in the clear, he might not. He's gonna face discipline reaction.
How do you think they did in terms of pivoting though,
because it looks like there was a deal that was
going to be on the table three years and forty
two million. Instead you wind up getting Duncan Robinson for
Simony font Techio and you were able to get Carus
l Vert. Just how do you think they did in
terms of like the pivot for what it doesn't seem
maybe it didn't catch them off guard, but this was
definitely something that did impact how they went about the
off season for sure.
Speaker 2: No, no, absolutely, And for the record, there was a
report in the Detroit News a couple of days ago.
I think that he like he paid back the rent
that he owed at his apartment building in Detroit, and
I think has moved back in for whatever that's worth.
Speaker 1: So did he pay his barber though?
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying is the barber in the dentist,
right is the.
Speaker 1: Barber and the dentist, Which is just like I didn't
for the barber. I understand NBA players travel in different
circles than me. I didn't know that you could put
like barber expenses on Layoway basically. Okay, it's just not
even if you're even having a traveling barber. That's not
something I knew. It was a a thing is.
Speaker 2: Less lay away. It's like I got you, man, I
got you, Man, I got you. And then you look
up and three months and it's like, what what was
going on? But as for the pivot, at first, I
was disappointed because I thought that in basically like functionally
replacing Shrewder and Beasley with LeVert and Duncan, I didn't
think they improved, and I thought that they needed to
improve to not get kind of stuck where they were
last year. Then you look at how everything went for
everyone's off season after the dust settles.
Speaker 1: And craziest off season of all time right last just why?
Speaker 2: But I don't feel like anyone above them in the
standings last season did like anything amazing either to like
get ahead right And you look at teams that were
ahead of them, like Boston Indiania whore or Boston and
Indiana who are taking gap years functionally, and it's like, Okay,
there's there's room for improved in advancement standing wise, without
the team like getting way way better. I was particularly
disappointed in the acquisition of Lavert. I was a really
big Nikill Alexander Walker guy. I realized, like the cap
machinations that they would have needed to make a sign
and trade happen like probably prove pretty difficult. But they
were like reportedly in on him up until the final buzzer,
and so I was basic I was disappointed they didn't
get Nikhil Alexander Walker more than I was like happy
that they did get somebody who can play that role
in Karris Lavert and Duncan Robinson was like, it's very interesting. Uh,
that was very interesting signing from a couple of perspectives. Yes,
Duncan Robinson replaces the like shooting gravity of Malik Beasley.
He does so in like kind of a different way,
kind of not a different way. There's a lot of
Bam Duncan chemistry that I am not sure that if
Dunk Duncan's coming off the bench, I'm not sure Isaiah
Stewart like draws the same level of defensive attention as
bam adebio And so you wonder if like people are
just keying in on Duncan, like what does that actually
do from like a functional like how he performs perspective,
but just like as a dude who can shoot, like yes, perfect.
His contract is also great, very suspiciously structured if you
were of the belief that Malie Beasley is in fact
coming back to this team, and so like it. I
think the Pistons did good in the acquisition department. The
one thing I'll say, like Tobias Harris is like way
way way down the list, but there The thing I
was also pretty concerned about was like a long term
plan at the fore position behind Tobias who was a
kind of expiring contract this season, and they still kind
of don't have that guy. I like Bobbie Clintman. I
saw Bobbie Cleintman up close in summerly a little bit
taller than I expected. I don't think he's the long
term solution at the four, and so that that's still
kind of the one hole in the roster that I'd
like to see filled. But I'll give Trains to the
benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I ended up liking and I'd probably like their
off season a lot better if they bring from a
basketball perspective, Beasley back, because Robinson, to your point, the
chemistry and band with stuff like you're not even gonna
have that with like Pete Duran, I don't think at
this point either. So I think he's also really best
served if there is like another shooter on the court,
so they might be able to fact that Tobias Harris
is there, maybe you can get to some lineups where
you have Beasley and Robinson on the court at the
same time. Since Robinson's played up, I think that he's
become like underrated though in just terms of his gravity
and like being able to shake loose and get inside
the arc over the past two years. So I thought
they'd remounted nicely there. And I'm actually more of an
avert guy now following his Cleveland time, not so much
in Atlanta. I just don't think that if you were
gonna move on from Dennis Shreuter and you don't want
to saddle Jade and Ivy maybe with too much, or
if you're looking for at least just like we're trying
to develop, but we're also trying to win. I think
Karas Verda is going to be better on ball than
Nikil offensively defensively is not. You know, it's not a
question obviously, so I thought they really I was surprised.
It seems like generally people are either indifferent or didn't
like their offseason and maybe the four spots like speaking
to that, I was mostly a fan though of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it wasn't very flashy, right, they
didn't make their Desmond Baine trade, and I think that
was what it's reasonable. I think that reasonable expectation is like, hey,
like you could you could make your version of the
Desmond Bain trade this off season, and they didn't do that,
and so it's I think it is underplayed like what
they did. But but like you mentioned, like Kerselvert's really
good on and off the ball. Uh enables them to
get to lineups where Jade and Ivy, who I was
very curious to see, like if he could handle that
level of primary duty as a creator is like maybe
he doesn't have to all the time, Like take some
of that responsibility off of this plate. That's good, maybe
make some more effective player. And so there is like
is Kerselvert better than Dennis Schroeder. It's like probably about
the same. But they like, but you needed to replace
Dennis Shruder because without him you were stuck playing like
Marcus Sasser Extendon minutes who like I like Marcus Cesser,
but like I don't think he's an actual I think
it's a point guard, point cutter. I don't think it's
a primary. And so it's like you but so you
needed that role and is a good backup plan for Hey,
maybe Jade and Ivy isn't ready all every night to
take on this level of responsibility.
Speaker 1: The other thing about their all season I think kind
of bleeds into this season is you mentioned they didn't
make their Desmond Bayin move. I don't know if now,
like even let's say an opportunity that was out there
would have made sense. And like Bain in Theoria, I
guess is a player that could have made sense for them,
especially if Beasley wasn't going to be there. Yeah, now
just didn't feel like the time because you have to
make you would have to render these verdicts on you
either then need certain of these young guys to be
really good, like make a leap next season, or you
need to render a verdict of well, what are they
worth to us if we're shipping them out, like how
much or they value? And I'm also kind of one too,
so like I respect them, not I would say reading
too much into last season or overreact it. But overreacting
to it. But then I also wonder, and I'm always
fascinated by this, is like, how much more difficult does
it get stomaching or prioritizing player development now that there
are actual expectations here to where's they're going to be.
Let's just as an example, you know, a temptation to
be like, well, like Jay n Ivey's minutes might not
be there as much alongside k because karras Slioburg is
playing better right now, is the better fit. And it's
just I find that push and pull fascinating and I
thought they did a good job of balancing it all
last year. And it helps that like so many of
your quote unquote prospects or developing guys were also your
most some of your most important players. But now we're
not coming into this season like, oh, like, well the
Piston sniff thirty wins. It's like, no, like the Pistons
are a playoff team right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's like JB did a really good
job with that balancing act over the course of last season.
I think in the playoffs we started to see him
skew a little bit more towards the veteran side of things.
It's a lot of Dennis Schroeder in the playoff holland
a lot of Dinnis Schroder, not enough Ron Howard.
Speaker 1: But by the way, I think keros averts a lot
better than Dennis Shuter. I've never that one year in OKC,
I was like all the however many years he was
there was I was aboard the Shrewder train. But I'm
I've probably been too high on Karraslvert at points too.
But the stuff he showed, like off the ball, even
defensively in Cleveland, I don't even think it's maybe as
like a guy I was gonna put raw room pressure
on and like get downhill that way. Yeah, Dennis Shuoter,
but I think that's a pretty big upgrade actually going
from Schroder to LeVert. For what it's worth, worth anything.
Speaker 2: I'll take it, I'll take it. But yeah, I think
that there is. I think because there was so much
success in the regular season last year, the expectation is
from the front office on down is to build on
that success, and so you can start to get to
a position where you can start telling guys like, hey,
like we are trying to win. If you are not
helping us try to win, like you need to get
with the program and have that be and like have
like not the goal not be like we don't want
to pay you, or like you need your shots so
you can get the contract, the goal being like we
need to win. It's like if you win, like you
will probably get paid, which is what which is what
leads us into the extension talks for Jade and Ivy
and Jalen durn.
Speaker 1: Well, let's start with Jade and Ivy. But before we
get to extension, how much or do you buy into
what you saw from him last season before the leg injury?
And it almost feels like a two layer question because it's, okay,
he shot a trillion percent on spot up three's forty
five point two whatever, it was great, but like what
is he like in the context of like, well, when
Kay Cunningham is on the bench, like how do you
trust him? It feels like you have to trust him
like in two separate roles for to be considered a
long term piece and just for my ten thousand foot view,
it's like, feels like he can play the one like
really well or we can at least have hope that
the kJ n Ivy partnership is going to be fine,
if not great, But like, what is he independent of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I don't think this is going to sound
like a cop out. We didn't get enough information about
James shocking last year. Well, so the timing of his
injury was atrocious because if you look at the Pistons
season last year, they were a below five hundred to
slightly below five hundred team until like Asar Thompson got
back and then like a week later Jade and Navy
got hurt and then they were like a good team.
So to me, Asar Thompson is like the secret sauce
that makes this Pistons team work. And we never really
got to see how Jade, Nivy and Sar Thompson like
balance each other out on the floor. But in what
we did get to see from j Nivy, I thought
he did a really effective job playing off of Kate Cunningham.
Shooting a billion percent on spot up three's like helped
in that regard a ton. I thought he did a
better job of getting other guys involved. There was some
there was like some nice chemistry with Durren. There was
some Hey, like this Milik Beasley guy seems pretty good, Like,
maybe I can just get him the ball and like
not have to worry about as much things happening. But
the thing I've been harping on for years was still there.
The defense was still kind of not in the place
where you'd like it to be. If he's the guy,
if he's the second guy in the back court. Right again,
like Kate Cunningham is the star or Kay Cunningham is
the sun, everything's evolved or revolves around him. Kate Cunningham
is a like actually like kind of slightly above average defender,
but you don't want to ask him to do that
much on defense. But having a guy in Jade and
Ivy next to him who you don't trust on defense
puts more pressure on him to be more of a
two way player. And if you could get another guy
in that spot who would take some of that burden
off Ukate, I think you'd see better results. And so
it's tricky. I think Jayden is a really good player.
We are starting to after four years, we are not
We're getting into like, he is a good player, does
he help you win territory? Which is where like cam
Thomas found himself unsuccessfully, which is where like like Jalen
Green is the center of a durant deal, but nobody
thinks like Jalen Green is a winning player, right, right,
And so it's like where on that sliding scale does
Jade and Ivy fit and does he fit better if
he makes a lower amount on his extension? Right. I've
heard that the extension talks have not gone as well
as either party would have liked. I've heard that you
probably won't sign an extension unless like something changes, and
it could just be a situation in which it's like, hey,
he he comes in, he shoots forty five percent on
spot of three's again for the first thirty games of
the season, and you're like, okay, like here's the extension,
Like here's here's more money than we perhaps are willing
to give. But like you seem to have proved yourself
and the injury was kind of a freak injury, like
Cole Anthony just decided to play football on the basketball court,
and so I'm not I'm not worried about like how
that'll impact him like long term or anything, which is good?
Speaker 1: Would you be on when you're looking at his extension eligibility?
Would you beyond team like sort of like the jail
and green deal where the salary is probably inflated a
little bit higher than you like, but it's so short
term it's still easy to trade. Or are you trying
to get like you know, get the four or five
years or the four years with the team option, and
like the numbers, like what matters more to you, like
the length that if you're if you're or the Pistons,
or just from your perspective, what would matter more to you,
Like keeping the price point and it's like in a
certain range, or having him for the maximum number of years.
Speaker 2: I think, if I like climb into the mind of
Trajan Langdon, I think it has to be the years.
I think, if I remember this correctly, he has not
given out a deal to anyone not named Cad Cunningham
for more than two years. Wow.
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he's acquired guys who have like had multiple
years in the contracts or whatever. But but yeah, and
so I think that if you gave them like the option,
they would say like, yeah, we'll, well, we could go
like a two plus one at what people would consider
like an elevated dollar amount and see how that plays out.
It's easier to trade, especially in today's like weird cap environment.
I think fewer years is better, is easier to trade
than a longer term thing.
Speaker 1: I think what's also a semi interesting I don't viewed
as a huge part is that if you sign him
to an extension, it just gets a lot harder to
trade him this season if you decide to do something
in the middle of the year, and then the other thing.
Just from a team perspective, I don't know how you
could sit and look at how restricted restricted free agency
is playing out right now, even with Cam Thomas signing
his qualifying offer, like they were offering him the nets
basically mid less than mid level money. Yes, so I
get that, but like if you want to wait and
see if all these guys signed their qualifying offers, then
the Pistons, okay, you clock that. But I don't know
how you look at what's happened in restricted free agency
over the years where actually a current Piston is the
only guy in years who's gotten an offer sheet from
a different team that wasn't his own. It was Paul Reid,
and that was just built to mess with the Sixers,
like the So I think I'm wondering when they're not
just auto max guys or anything sort of close to that,
like a Shannguon type who probably could have gotten the max. Honestly, like,
I wonder how reticent teams Well, then go to a
restricted free agency. We'll see, we'll see what happens. And
this might be one of those cases, especially when you
don't think you have enough information on that player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, and you look at like the Jabbari
Smith extension, right, and that was that was a long
extension or a like good amount of money, not a
crazy amount of money, or a guy that I think
from my outside looking in perspective, like they think plays
a role on like the good version of that team.
It would be great if Jade and Ivy would be
willing to do something like that. Or now it doesn't
seem like that's the case, so it's like, okay, so
we'll we'll see how it plays out. But if you
just stick to on the court like he was, he
was effective last year. He fits next to Kid Cunningham
less than I would like, but still pretty good. And
I'm curious to see how a backcourt of like him
and Karis Slovert plays against like the bench lineups of
other Eastern Conference teams, like can that be a thing
you buy minutes with in the playoffs? Like as Kate
Cunningham sits that, like, these are the questions I'm starting
to ask myself.
Speaker 1: Where are you? I really want to have strong opinions
about Jalen Duran, I promise you, I really do, But
this is I think year three of me basically, like
I was like after year one, you were kind of
hyping him up. I was really into it, but it's
I've just I can't muster strong feelings about Jalender and
I think he got better as the year went on.
Last year there wasn't a lot of like the stuff
we were seeing on offense in year two, there wasn't
as much of that.
Speaker 2: The QB keepers less than that.
Speaker 1: So but just like I thought he would be even
better defensively than he ended up being. Now that they're like,
especially when you look at the way the Pistons defended
overall some of the stuff that he could do as
a passer, I love it, you know, I love his shoulders.
Those things are massive. I just where do you land
on him? And what is like something that you're just
like tracking most closely entering his fourth year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you if you asked Jalen Dern and you
asked Trajan land Langdon, they were both disappointed in his
play through the first twenty five games of the year.
After that, I like, I don't know what clicked, but
something seemed to click. He was much more effective as
a defensive player and as an offensive player. And I
thought he played. I thought he played pretty well for
what he is. He like twenty two. I thought he
played pretty well for a twenty two year old. In
the playoff series, Granted, Tobias Harris took the Karl Anthony
Towns matchup because there's no way in hell that like
they could get away with that matchup on defense, but
as a as a rebounder, as an interior presence, as
a guy whose passing ability I think opens up more
lineup configurations around like two non shooters in him and
Asar Thompson. Like then you would think you saw in
the playoff series a lot of chemistry between those guys
on like short role actions to get Asar paint touches
and paint finishes over in Knick's defense. That was like
had Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson on the back line
and it's like, wait, what, like why am I underneath
the Basketbaile Sarr Thompson's flying at me? So like, I
think there's some there there offensively more than you would say, like, oh, hey,
I'm worried about kay with a bunch of non shooters, right.
I think his youth and the fact that he like
did improve so much more on defense as the season
went on still leads me to believe there's some growth
in that area. A big part of that growth is
going to have to be becoming more comfortable defending in space,
defending stretch bigs. Defending stretch bigs has been a huge
issue for him, like over the course of his entire career.
So for Duran to me is like it's always been
a lot more clear to me how he fits alongside
Cunningham than Jade and Ivy, And so for Duran, it's
more of a question of like what does he want?
Does he want years or dollars? Right, whatever he wants,
Like I would be a lot more willing to give
it to him. Also because like, the center market is
not nearly as robust as the like shooting guard guy
who scores market. So I'm I'm a lot more comfortable
handing JD and extension. I thought he played better. I
think there's still room for him to grow, especially on defense.
There was a there's a bunch of there's some anonymous
tweets that he grew like three inches, and it's like
if that happens, like sure if that doesn't happen, like
I don't know why, Like that's pure September like Twitter bullshittary.
Speaker 1: So he grew three inches into what like this past
like over the summer? Yeah, is that even he's wearing
lifts and his shoes. Is that what this is? Then?
Speaker 2: I like it, Like he's like he's young, It's possible.
But like also, like, do I think he grew three inches?
Like no, Like do I want to see if he
shows up in camp and he's like, all of a
sudden like way taller than Paula Reid? Like yes, actually,
I'm I'm actually legit curious to see that. But yeah,
just I'm a lot more comfortable with how JD plays
and fits into the Episton's team.
Speaker 1: Like moving forward, So if they were to give him
like the Jabbari Smith deal, was that what was that
five years in one hundred and twenty two somewhere there. Yeah,
if it was five and one twenty five, that's something
that you would do as the pistons.
Speaker 2: That's that's a little higher than I would go, but
I yeah, I'd like that deal. I again, like I
think a kid Duran pick and roll is like the
core of what you want to be doing on offense
for the next half decade anyway, So yeah, I lock
those guys up.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about because you're meant to like
the SR Thompson Jalen Duran dynamic, like you said, have
impressed you some last year. How do you feel about
that long term? And also like how much does that
need to inform the urgency of well, like we need
to have the long term Tobias Harris in place to
ensure that there's always going to be enough spacing around
h Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah it. Jalen Duran got a lot better on defense
when a Sar Thompson showed up, and so I do
think that's that's a little bit of a symbiotic relationship
on the defensive end, which is good. I think that
we've we've kind of always talked about durn Is passing
as this like mythical skill that's kind of underrated and
kind of underutilized. And I think that Asar Thompson the cutter,
like really unlocked that area of Jalen Duran's game. Again,
like we saw that a lot in the next series.
So I think, like again like we haven't talked about
a Sar yet, but like Asar is like really just
like the glue and secret sauce that like makes this
whole like Pistons team work, and so he's very, very
valuable to this team. So it's good to have players
that kind of like work with that, and and Duran
is one.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. Sar Thompson, Yes, just just I
don't have If you'd like to extol his defense a
little bit, I'm here for it. I have no notes
on there. He would have made all defense that he'd
been eligible last year. I think that.
Speaker 2: Did you see the clip of him defending an entire
possession against the Hawks?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've seen that clip. I'd like
to think that I've seen all those sar Thompson clips.
But is that the one where he's guarded like eight players?
Speaker 2: He guards like he yards, he switches like three times,
cuts off the ball handler like twice, like Rotates gets
the steal, and he's he's everywhere on the court, and like,
how how did this guy? How does he do this?
How does he do this any he just does It's
it's wild to see. I was at a game. Oh man,
what game was this? I think this was I think
this was a game against San Antonio. And he got
the ball he's got to steal. He took off on
a fast break, and my seats are like, I'm not
I'm not like court side, but like I'm a couple
rows up off the court.
Speaker 1: I thought you were like on the bench.
Speaker 2: I wish my buddies have sent me like, hey is
this you? And like you can see me on TV,
which is which is kind of funny. But like he
jumped and I legit thought he was going to like
jump into the crowd like with us, Like he jumped
so high. It's just like you see this person and
you see him in person, it's like this, this is
a this is an amazing, amazing athlete. And his anticipation
and his for lack of a better word, like basketball
IQ and like sense of like where everything is supposed
to be on the court is just like it's mind blowing.
So I have all the confidence in the world that
Sart Thompson is gonna be a really good player. However,
you still can't shoot. The shot looked a little bit
more fluid like as the year went on, but still
didn't go in. His free throw percentage went up, which
was good, good sign. But you still see teams kind
of ignore him offensively, and so he has to get
creative to contribute offensively. Would it be easier to be
creative around us? Are like if he could do one
of shoot or dribble at a much higher level, like yes,
like which one? I don't know whichever one he could,
like pick one? Do what you gotta do, Like get
to the level that.
Speaker 1: You can do, does it? I tend to tilt towards
what I view is more realistic, and so the handle
stuff feels like I can see that continuing to improve
versus this guy all of a sudden he's shooting thirty
six percent on three or four spot of three point
attempts per game. It's sort of where I think that
would be more important. And also like a lot of
it's full floor stuff. But when they would put the
ball in his hands, like they had some really fun
offensive plays with him last year, and so I think,
to me, that feels more realistic. But then it does
open up. You have to watch who's around him as well,
and like defenses are just gonna if you ever set
a ball screen for him, Like defenses aren't gonna care. Yeah,
like they're they're gonna be on the baseline at that point.
Speaker 2: So well, it was funny there were you could see
plays where he's so athletic that sometimes like it was
the Ben Simmons things whereas like if you went too
far under all of a sudden, like you're just at
the eight foot mark and the paint and then he's
in the paint too, and you're like, oh wait, actually
I didn't I didn't want him to get to the paint,
but it's too late, and so yeah, it's just so
I do think the handle is probably more realistic. I wonder, like,
I don't think he needs to shoot like forty percent
on corner threes or whatever. You talked about this, uh
with Justin Rowan on the Cleveland look Ahead. But like
the reason as of a coral like didn't work in
Cleveland is because like no one cared if he shot
forty on corner threes. They would just like let him
do it. And so I do wonder like how good
Asar would have to shoot before teams like started to
close out on him, because once you start drawing the closeouts, like,
that's when you get the blowbys, like, that's when you
get the rotations, like, that's when you get the defense
moving and shifting and opening things up for everybody else.
And I don't think I think it'd be really difficult
for Sorry to get to the level where he starts
drawing clothes outs on a consistent basis. I do think
that improving the handle is probably easier, But for me
it's less like, oh, he needs to tween hes he
like his way like all the way to asket and
more like can you operate in short areas if they
do like if they are like sinking under a screen,
are you able to like jet off the screen, get
to a spot and like draw help again, like are
you drawing help? Are you making things happen? If and
if they're if they're sinking too low? It was like,
are can we get to a spot where like hey,
like all of a sudden, Duran's man is up like
twelve feet and durance behind him, and like then like
and then good things are happening, and so like, yeah,
I think I think there's a pot. There's definitely That's
why I'll be working on if I were him. Underplay
not underplayed, but like this is his first real full
offseason after the blood clots he suffered last year, which
again like delayed. I don't think he started like the
first thirty games of the year. So like that, that's
really good. I'm really excited to see that. So yeah,
I think he he really really matters to this team.
He holds the defense together, He contributes just enough on offense,
the havoc and like deflections and steals he creates, contributes
a lot to what the Pistons want to do in transition.
They were one of the most prolific transition teams last year,
and like he and Ron Holland and Jade and Ivy
were like a really big part of that and so
like and that was part of their identity, was like
not getting stuck in half court all the time. It
was like, let's just score like fifteen pins in transition
and call it today. And so he's really really important
to this team. To me, he is the second most
important player on this team behind Kate Cunningham.
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I guess the argument would be
made for Jade and Ivy would be the alternative. I
don't know who would be unless you think Ron Holland
can become the second offensive option type of guy, which
maybe not roll out, but I think, yeah, that feels
like the I don't want to say the only answer,
but I just don't know who you would argue for
and feel good about.
Speaker 2: For him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ron Hollins, what do you think of his his
rookie season and now that the jumpers just that one
knicks game, did a lot of heavy lifting in summer
league for his percentages.
Speaker 2: But he got him up, he got him up, he
looked I was in So I went to Vegas for
the first time this year. I got to see Ron
Holland up close and personal. I got to wap up
his dad and be like, your son is going to
be a star, and he got to laugh at that.
But he Ron looked so much more comfortable just like
shooting and having the ball in his hands against summer
league competition than he did in against like against like
real actual NBA competition last season. But I hope that
comfort and ease translates to like real improvements this season,
because like what we saw, like he was a he
was a really good, like energy guy. He had these
big impact plays. You could feel the like energy in
the arena when like he'd get a steal and also
like tear down the court on a breakaway. It's like
really cool he and like the he was like picking
guys up full court and like getting guy getting people
out of rhythm and out of sync. You like to
see that the shooting was his shooting was not as
like he was much more highly projected as a shooter
than Nassar Thompson. His shooting was real bad, real bad
last year, and so you obviously hope that. And his
shot looks a lot. He looks a lot more fluid
and comfortable taking shots. They just didn't go in, and
so everybody kind of assumes that, like he will shoot better,
which is good. But yeah, like the way he moves,
the way he is able to just like move through traffic,
move through space. It's like him and Ta Sar together
are kind of a parent you would like to preserve.
I think that I put this, They're like they're a
world where like Ron becomes the second most important player
on the team behind Kid, and that world. That world
involves like Asar not developing like offensively as much as
we would like. But you gotta remember, like Ron was
a super prospect, went to the Ignite, scored twenty points
a game in the G League, which I feel like
everybody scores twenty points a game in the G League,
but still not easy. Right at like eighteen years old
or whatever he was, is still really young, is being
molded into the type of player that fits alongside the
rest of these guys, as opposed to like I don't know,
getting in like Washington and just being told like hey,
like get up like twenty five shots a game and
like let's see what happens. And I think I think
that was really valuable for him getting getting the coaching
staff or getting a coaching staff that wants him to
develop his game in a sustainable away, as opposed to
getting into coaching staff where it's like, yeah, man, just
just like let's see what you can do. I think
will make his game like more sustainable and efficient. The
I wonder about positionality, He's he's still young, so it's
time for his body to fill out, but he's kind
of lean, and like if you look at his dad,
his dad's kind of lean, even if he's six'. Eight,
LIKE i don't know if he's going to be like
banging bodies at the four for his entire. Career and
so it's like all, right and so you start putting things.
Together so it's, like, Okay Atasar ivy During, Ron like
is that line? Up does that line up have enough
size to? Compete when you see teams like you, Know
houston deciding to go double big all the, time Or
milwaukee like going With turner And jannis And portus maybe
all at the same, time or you see like even
like A denver right With jokic And Aaron gordon And Cam,
johnson is like all these dudes are, big, Right and
SO i do, wonder like his body needs to fill
out to kind of play the position that would benefit
The pistons. MOST i don't know if that benefits him,
most but like that's where that's where we end, up
and SO i do wonder about. That but like, otherwise
LIKE i think his role for this. Team we talked
a little bit about how like there's a there's a
sliding scale between like development and trying to, win and
The pistons did a really good job integrating Round holland last,
year are getting him, minutes having him. PLAY i believe
he played eighty one games last, year and the only
thing he didn't play was because he was suspended for
that thing In. Minnesota that was kind of, yes, right
and so like the there isn't as much or like
because he did it last. YEAR i believe there also
like is a wiggle room to go with like how
that that goes this, year but it will BE i.
Don't my hope is that we get to a place
where like not only is a, development but he continues
to contribute and expands his offensive role to where like
teams are actually forced to guard him, right but still
probably ends up doing it for bench. Lineups this.
Speaker 1: SEASON i think it almost has to be that way
where he's doing it for the bench, lineup just because long,
term one of him Or Asar thompson's gonna need to
develop into a more dynamic perimeter offen like that you
mentioned drawing. Closeouts, otherwise the dynamic between having those two
in jail And, durnan it's like those three just Barely
injuries factored into some of, that but With Osar, thompson
but they just barely play together last, year Even asar
And HOLLAND i think we're under three hundred out possessions
under garbage. Time, yeah outside of garbage, time to excuse.
Me and so two of, them of those three on the,
FLOOR i think you can make, work like you'll figure it.
Out but like the three of, them like that's where
it would start to Get you're putting a lot on
those other two, players like in terms of their offensive
lifts that are on the.
Speaker 2: Court with those, Three, YEAH jb was really read to
Put ron And asar on the floor at the same,
time even though Like Ron Asar duran is probably like
the closest thing you can Org Like Ronasar stewart is
probably like the best like defensive lineup if you just want,
defense that'd be like the core of the best defensive
lineup you could put on the. Floor and so it was, like,
yeah LIKE i would have liked to see that look
a little bit more last. SEASON i hope we get
to see it a little bit more this. Season but
it really does depend On ron in particular developing as a. Shooter,
again LIKE i THINK i don't think A sar gets.
THERE i don't know if it matters or not If
sar gets, There and Like i'd come to the games
pre games And I'D cjd like taking like seventeen footers
and it's, like maybe that, works maybe it. DOESN'T i
don't love. That so it really relies On Ron holland
developing as a shooter to make some of the spacing
on those lineups.
Speaker 1: Work Kay, coneham he was like kind of important to this.
TEAM i don't know really a little. Bit what struck
you most about his sort OF i think it was
an arrival for, many it was affirmation for. Others but
what just struck you most about how he improved last?
Speaker 2: Year, okay so if you want to talk about. Arrival
you know what was really Funny dan watching his free
throw weight just Like spike after he was named The
All star, team just like the dumbest thing in the.
World it's, like, all this guy's An All, Star like
you can finally get the calls we've been begging for
for the last two and a half.
Speaker 1: YEARS i don't think his foul rate ended up being
that much higher though in the grand scheme of last,
season did? IT i know it went up a little.
BIT i didn't think it was up like precipitously that
it was a check pre and Post All Star.
Speaker 2: Break it. Was it was something we noticed at. Least but,
YEAH i know he was really effective last. Year the,
thing the thing THAT i was most swayed by was
how much it seemed like this was his team, now
and how that belief in himself and the team's believe
and him kind of grew and swelled as the season went.
Along there, were, like really there were big moments early
in the season where he came through for them in
a way that made you feel, Like, okay this is
something that we can expect of. Him there was the
there was the two there's the two way sequence Against
atlanta where he like drove Past Dyson daniels finished with
the left that gets the, bucket tough bucket for claims the.
Lead they call time, out they come, out they they
run a set like somehow a congou ends up with
the ball under the, basket k blocks it to seal the.
Game and it's just like stuff like that like just
did not happen. Before and that's the sign that like,
again like this is the guy who makes those things
happen and like helps preserve. Wins are there areas to, Improve, like, yeah,
ABSOLUTELY i think you saw his three point. Shooting to
me is the area in WHICH i want to see
the most. IMPROVEMENT i, know for the longest time we've
talked about turnovers in his. Handle his handle got better last,
year but there were still some kind of questionable decisions
THAT i think are after three. Years i'm just kind
of baking those into the rest of the. Cake but
you saw last year in the playoffs when team when
The knicks no longer felt like they had to Perceive
ocaid as a threat from, three his offensive effectiveness dropped
and it wasn't like, bad it was just like it
was not good. ENOUGH i think he shot seventeen percent
from three in the playoff, series which like just isn't good.
Enough you would hope that the addition or like the
reintegration Of jade And ivy And Caris lavert maybe helps
him get off the ball a little, bit especially after
The jade And ivy, injury that it was a lot
of like just him, dribbling like making miss.
Speaker 1: True drac position was a breath of fresh, air like
for that exact.
Speaker 2: Reason, yeah And it's not like shooter was like the
heaviest paint touch guy in the, world, right but like
they they really needed someone else who could just dribble
the basketball while he was on the on the court
and so, like and he. WAS i believe he's a much,
better much better spot up shooter than an off the dribble.
Shooter like same as most case for, everybody but you
really see he wants to play the game like eighteen
feet an. In he wants to drive where he, wants
he wants to get guys on his, hip he wants to,
post he wants to get those jump hooks like back
to the, middle or he wants to like come off a,
screen like diagnose what the defense is doing and get
like lobs in a durant or spray the ball out to.
Shooters and the big step for him is getting more
comfortable coming off, screens set higher on the floor and
like taking pull up threes right and making those pull up.
Threes there's a lot of complaints about How anthony And
Anthony edwards was just like taking twelve three is a,
game but like that really opened up the rest of
the floor for everybody else on The. Wolves we saw
that a. LOT i think in the what was? There
what was their second round? Series not not The, lakers but.
Speaker 1: The Clipper were they The clippers? Team what is the
what is? Time Golden?
Speaker 2: State Golden? State Golden? State, yeah you saw. That you
saw that a lot in The Golden state. Series in my,
mind and so it's like that would that would be
the thing WHERE i would want k to improve the.
Most AND i THINK i think he knows. THAT i
think he knows.
Speaker 1: That do you think that they're built if you have,
overret if you HAVE, ivy if you're maybe want to
Let asar do a little bit, More are they built
to give him more of those like call them either
in game breaks or like lightning his or diversifying his
offensive workload better than they were last?
Speaker 2: YEAR i think. SO i think, So, YEAH i think
there's there's a lot. More, uh he's not a bad
like off ball, screener SO i think there's putting more
shooting around. Him there's and having more ball handlers and
labels him to like set some screens and make some
stuff happen on. DEFENSE i would like to see them
lean a little bit more into a Sar thompson as
a ball handler while kids on the, floor because you
want those guys playing together as opposed to like not
opposed to a. Livert BUT i see more lineups in
where Like levert's on the floor And kate isn't than
like lineups where like both of both of those two
guys are on the. Floor but, YES i do think
they have currently they like have enough to get, there
like If LeVert gets hurt again or like god, forbid
Like ivy gets hurt again or is delayed in his
recovery or, something then like that starts to look a
little rickety right the The Marcus sasser kid cutting him in,
ites we're not.
Speaker 1: Amazing we had The Tobias harris discussion. Already stuart was
also super important to this team last. YEAR i think
when you're looking at what struck people the most as
they look and they just saw like he wasn't a
three point shooter. Anymore AND i know that he trafficked
in low, volume high hesitance type of. Looks but if
you ever want to get to a point you mentioned
this before, too where you want to have a Star
thompson And Ron holland on the court together and lead
into all, DEFENSE i could see those shots From stu
spot becoming pretty. Important is there a chance that we
see him get back to more of that or what
went into deciding to have him. NOT i know he's
playing the five more, now so that. Helps But i'm
just curious as to what was it that much of
a non weapon or the payoff wasn't that great that
they don't want to use him in that way.
Speaker 2: ANYMORE i don't know if it was a payoff. THING
i think it was more of an identity. Thing they
Asked stu to expend a lot of energy on, defense
and so having him kind of just like set screens
in space was, fine but he was much more effective
as like A dho Hub, right as a guy who's
setting screens to free Up Malik beasley to make. SHOTS
i think that, additionally, like especially after The Jaden ivy,
injury Like Dennis, shreter Like Marcus sasser And dennis shred,
again like aren't like the heaviest paint touch guys in the,
World so it's not like he had like the BEST
p AND r chemistry to work with to be a
great diver or a great pick and pop. Guy you'd
see lineups where it was Like, shrewter who's like a
good not great three point, shooter And Milik beasley who's
like drawing all the defense's attention Like ron ste and
like one other, guy and you'd see the defense just
be like all, right like we'll we'll pack the paint
like you guys can do. Whatever and there were definitely
opportunities For stewart to take some of those shots THAT
i felt like he didn't take because Like Milik beasley
was just like shooting flames out of his, hands and
so the better call was to get like to come.
Up my guy's in the. Paint i'm gonna get the.
Ball i'm gonna set a screen Like i'm gonna Get
Malik beasley in an open. Shot we've seen like like
workout summer workouts or summer, workouts but we've seen a
little bit more of the like, shot, uh the shooting
like take precedence In stewart's workouts this. OFFSEASON i hope
they returned to some of. THAT i don't ever think
he'll be LIKE i don't ever think he'll be Like Miles,
turner but, like, YEAH i do THINK i do think
that there's like there's some there there with like some
offensive diversity With Stu uh With, Tobias Like tobias was
great last. Year tobias was.
Speaker 1: Was their Second if you were going wire to, wire
he could have been their second most important. Player thompson
comes back and it was like, that when you're factoring
in sort of a wire to wire, impact it might
have been.
Speaker 2: Him, Yeah and the the difference When harris could play
and when he couldn't play was like was was very.
Noticeable and again it's IT'S i think it's more of
a function that they didn't have a guy who they
didn't have another guy who really did what hot What
tobias could, do they don't Have they still don't have
another like like wing sized wing player who can dribble
past and, shoot. Right they they have guys who can,
dribble they have guys who Can they have like wing
sized players who can shoot and like they can Put
duncan on the, wing but they. Don't they don't really
have anybody who can do all three And tobys can
do all. Three with that, Said tobias is Getting he's
getting up. There he was definitely like he played the
knixt series like really. Feistily BUT i thought he slowed
down a little as the season went, on and they
were asking him to do a, Lot so it's totally.
Understandable but and he's a really important player for this,
team but you would like him to be less, important
not because of anything he's doing wrong or, anything but
because like that would mean other guys had made strides
to put them like higher on the food, chain.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah and it's also JUST i think when they
signed him, initially whatever people thought about the value of the,
deal it's, like, oh, well that's sort of a contract
that's built to trade if they make a bigger. Move
and it's, no you don't overthink getting rid Of Tobias,
harris whether it's in a trade or he's gonna be
a free agent next. Summer but you don't have his
like unless you're really a believer In Bobby, clintman, like
you don't have that replacement lined up for. Him SO i,
like there's not even anyone on THE russ who really
like checks two of the boxes that he. Gives and
the most important thing from that, spot just based off
some of the players you have on the, wing is
just like the shooting and like the respect that he
provides from the, perimeter and SO i have found it
fascinating that they haven't looked TO i guess change that.
Up BUT i also don't, know like what is the
opportunities that they actually passed on that we would have
been sitting here and praising them for making that, move.
Speaker 2: Right it's, like you, know Nas reed wasn't really an, option,
Uh LIKE i was kind of crossing my fingers and
hoping like maybe like A Jared jackson junior or something
like shook loose in the off. Season not really an
option the, Draft, uh there were some interesting. Prospects Bryce
simon Of Motor City hoops and formerly Of Detroit Bad
boys and The Pistons, bowles great. Guy he was all
in On maxine right, now the like seven foot kid From,
Stanford like that would that would have been cool as
a as a guy who could both like shoot and
protect the rim and like was a little bit more
mobile than you'd expect a seven three guy to. Go
they like he Didn't they didn't end up going in that.
Direction that was a little disappointing, Actually so they still
kind of don't have that answer on the. Roster like,
again like if you, squint like maybe It's Ron holland
if you, squint like real, hard like maybe It's Bobie,
clintman you probably probably just need to close your eyes
if It's Bhobe. Cleming but they. Don't it is still
kind of a roster issue that they don't have that.
Guy if something happens To tobias like injury wise and
again like he's you, know only he's on the wrong
side of, thirty it becomes really.
Speaker 1: Tough Green Show, green get on in.
Speaker 2: THERE jb probably loves him. Some Javonte.
Speaker 1: GREEN i Love Javonte. Green he's so, scrappy has like
sneaky popped. Him i'm all. IN i Think Javonte green
is AN nba. Player i'm all in On Javonte.
Speaker 2: Green If javonte was six seven and says six, four,
Like i'd be right. There i'd be right there with.
You but, like, yeah as the case, stands like if
something happens At tobias like they they kind of don't
have any like way of replicating, that then you're you're
Starting if that, happens you're starting to get into like all,
right do we like start stew and like try and
do that weird dance. Again we Start Ron holland and
ask him to guard. Four is that he's probably like
too small to guard at this point in his career
and just like tough enough for fifteen. Games, Man, like
sorry about? That do you go small and play like
Like Duncan robinson at the four or. Something it's just
like you lean more heavily into the offense side of
things than you perhaps like because of the. Injury so, yeah,
Yeah tobis is sneakily like very very important to this.
Speaker 1: Team can we go through some of the other young
guys slash unknowns on this roster and just get your
thoughts and expectations for that moving? Forward he'll. Do let's
start with clearly your favorite player on this, Roster Marcus.
Speaker 2: SASSER i feel so bad Because Marcus aster is not
a BAD nba. PLAYER i don't know IF i don't
know If i've used this term in the podcast, before
BUT i feel Like Marcus sasser is like a quadruple
A nba. Player it's like he's too good for THE G,
league but he's not quite good enough to be somebody's
like full time backup point. Guard size limits him to
playing the point guard position when like he's really more
of a have an off ball guy or like an
isolation score than like a playmaker for. Others he shot
the ball pretty. Well he's a good enough shooter to
where you feel comfortable like having him on the. Floor but,
yeah the lack of playmaking for others paired with like
he was billed as this like really, good under, undersized
but really good guard, defender like coming out of, school
we haven't seen. That he's been like, fine not like,
amazing but, Fine and SO i was, like, yeah he's he's.
FINE i would HONESTLY i would like to see him,
traded not because LIKE i don't want him on the,
team but BECAUSE i think like if he if he
were playing for Like charlotte or The, wizards like he
would that would be put him in a position to
where like he could showcase more of his offensive skills
and perhaps like do better for himself for like a contract,
Perspective but, like, yeah on this, team he's probably not
going to get to do that unless there's like a
slew of, injuries and even, then like his limitations would
shine out more than what he is capabilities to.
Speaker 1: Do where are we at With? Clintman it seems THAT
i know where you're at with. Him he's a kind
of sometimes the way he moves away from the, ball
just AND i was in on him my very cursory scouting.
PROCESS i was in on him last year entering last.
Year excuse, ME.
Speaker 2: I wish he was better like he he. Is it's
hard to find guys that size who moved the way
he does and can pass the way he. Does he's
a really he's a really good, passer really creative and inventive,
passer but the shots don't go in as much as
you'd like them. To and he's not as good with
the ball in his hands as a driver as you'd
otherwise like him to. Be and so right, now he's
kind of just like a he's like a high post
efficient passer who can like move and get out and
transition and impact the game that, way but like, otherwise
he kind of doesn't do that. MUCH i thought his
summer league was pretty disappointing on the, whole and SO
i hope if for, if for, him my thing would
be like go be a like forty five percent shooter
from three in THE G league and get to a
place where it's like we know what you. Do you
rebound and you shoot and like that is the thing
you do, right and if you can do, that like
there could probably be AN nba spot for, You like
so maybe not In, detroit maybe somewhere, else but like
if you if you can shoot that well and move that,
well pass that, well and, rebound like there's a spot
for you in the.
Speaker 1: LEAGUE i do get the sense That pistons fans are
in love With Tolou. Smith are you among?
Speaker 2: THOSE i Like. Tayler he's a little, undersized which is a,
problem but, uh he has he has great, energy is
a good rim protector despite being. UNDERSIZED i thought he
played pretty well In Summer league and he really importantly
like he knows his. Role he never tries to do
anything like outside of the role of like running rim
protecting like big man is really valuable because like you've
been a summer League, dan you see these guys who were, like, hey,
man Like i'm trying to get, paid LIKE i can do,
stuff and it's like this is not good. Basketball SO
i really appreciate that totally kind of knows his.
Speaker 1: Role, yeah where are you at With Donish?
Speaker 2: Jenkins Donna shank has really impressed me in summer. League
he was probably the most impressive. Player he was the
standout player Of Summer league to, me because he made
he looked a lot more comfortable as a. SHOOTER i
don't remember HIS G league numbers off the top of
my HEADBED i don't think he was like a great
shooter in THE G league last, year but he is
taller Than, sasser a worse, shooter but a better playmaker Than,
sassar and somehow like a better defender Than sassar OR
i saw him make more impact plays In Summer league
on the defensive side of the ball Than i've seen
Like Marcus sasser, do and so there's a legitimate case
to make that Like Dannis jenkins should probably be the
third point guard on this. Team if, oh, okay if
one of those like if if one of those guys
wasn't was an undrafted free agent and the other one
was the like guy you traded up to the twenty
seventh pick or whatever in the draft to get, like
maybe the roles will be. Reversed but as you, know
but as right now as it, stands Like dannis is
probably destined for another season in THE G, league But
i'm definitely like keeping my eye on. Him he popped
a lot in summer.
Speaker 1: League i'm keeping my eye on chasl. NEAR i know
the percentages weren't there In Summer, league BUT i JUST
i think he's going to be a really good. Shooter
the way he's able to move map the court away
from the, ball even some of the stuff that he's
able to do as a trailer getting into his pull up.
Twos i'm actually a pretty big believer in. Him do
you share those thoughts at? ALL i.
Speaker 2: Don't i'm Sorry dan enough, now and SO i do
Think chas can be a really good. Shooter he was
really good shooter in, college and LIKE i, thought you
played slightly disappointingly In, vegas.
Speaker 1: But that was just BECAUSE i go off vibes From
vegas to where IT'S i just throw the percentages out the.
Window and IF i like the way the player moves
or it's like IF i think they can get the
shots up and they'll eventually go, in that's that's my
at least if you're a, rookie and sometimes if you're a,
sophomore if you were, good you, know if you're coming
out of a. Role it Had Ron holland been bad
In summer, league that's, Okay like we're a little. Concerned,
yeah BUT i just go off vibes for most of the.
Speaker 2: Rookies so the nice thing you can say is like
he's the second round. Guy like if he doesn't, work
it's not the worst thing in the. World WHAT i
will say, is so my read pre draft On chas
was that, like even if he, works he's kind of
just a, shooter and you probably needed a little bit
more ball handling or playmaking or, defense like from that
kind of. Role the level of shooter you have to
get to in order to contribute at THE nba level
if all you do is, shoot is so high THAT
i think that's like an a reasonable burden took place
on the second. Rounder and SO i would have preferred them,
get you, know another player in like the The Bobie
clintman like. Phenotype, RIGHT i would have preferred like maybe another,
center because LIKE i Like Paul. Reid Paul reid's. GREAT
i don't know If Paul reid is like an actual
like center, center.
Speaker 1: Right, no, right, yeah so it's pretty, small, Yeah and so.
Speaker 2: It's like there were there were other OPTIONS i thought
they could have gone on at that spot that like
even if they don't work out from a like talent development,
perspective like maybe they work out from like a roster
redundancy perspective as it stands right, Now LIKE i don't,
Know chess is going to spend a lot of time
with the with THE G league team and.
Speaker 1: Shooting fifty from. Three he's gonna have enough five assist
games to make you BELIEVE i could feel it we're
gonna circle back next. YEAR i.
Speaker 2: Hope you're. RIGHT i hope you're.
Speaker 1: Right are you ready to enter the cookie cutter slash
righting round portion of the? Podcast?
Speaker 2: Delicious let's do?
Speaker 1: It so you've ALREADY i think hinted at where your
pick is going to. Be but since this is the
cookie cutter, portion what is this team's biggest weakness to
you when just looking at them on?
Speaker 2: Paper, yeah it's That it's that four. Spot it's the
spot Behind tobias and replacing To Hawias, harris like if
he gets hurt. Again, LIKE i don't know what they really.
Do you're you're doing a you're running a patch job
at that point if something goes wrong at that. Spot
so that's SOMETHING i like TO i just keep my
eye on for future roster construction.
Speaker 1: Purposes is there anything about this team strength storyline that's
flying under the radar right now that you think should be?
Speaker 2: Discussed SO i, think mm, HMM i think the then.
Speaker 1: DID i steal it? Already did we talk much?
Speaker 2: ABOUT i think the contract extensions situation is getting like
a little. Underplayed like there's such good vibes around the
team that like nobody wants to like ruin the, vibes
but like there's definitely if you start losing games and
it does become more of a, like, hey like like
what's gonna happen with my? Contract like AM i gonna
end up like we're gonna do? This we're gonna, lose
like And i'm gonna have to take the qualifying. OFFER
i do think there's a potential for downside there that's getting.
Underplayed it'd be nice to just like kind of get that,
resolved make get everybody, happy or just like figure out
like what some trade scenarios, right not my preferred, scenario
but like a thing you probably have to think.
Speaker 1: About i've also. WONDERED i think this applies a lot
to the what are they doing After Tobias harris or
Behind Tobias, Harris it's so tough to answer that question
without knowing how the season's. Unfolding i'm curious as to
what their appetite will be to improve in the middle
of the, season because are you at a point where
you think you're again it will depend on, Record but
if you're sitting, fifth fourth in The, east because there's
PROBABLY i think there's probably two or three teams that
you can sit here with absolute certainty and say they
will be better than The pistons next. Year and so
if you're in that range of like four or, five
are you looking at, like, oh are we moving another
first round? Pick or are we, like are we giving
up on one of the prospects that hasn't? Something maybe
it's it's An, ivy is?
Speaker 2: It is it A?
Speaker 1: Durham but you don't really have a long term center
Behind durhan right. Now SO i find there they're a
very good. Team they have a lot of different options
moving forward with the. Future BUT i don't know that
you could point to just like the expendable salary is
supposed to Be Tobias, harris and it's not at this,
Point AND i think you can now make the cases
like is That Duncan robinson's, functionality but if you don't
Have Malik beasley on the roster how, Like so it's
that's what's fascinating to me is this feels like maybe
they might fud some fiddle and do something, small but
if they are even like good and they're not great
and there might be, opportunities it just feels like they're
gonna kind, OF i don't know what the word, is
go through this season without considering any serious type of,
transactions no matter how good they, are maybe how much
some people think they need.
Speaker 2: It, yeah it it does very much seem like it's
like we still want to see what we got, season
but it's like you made the playoffs last year and
there's definitely there's space in the conference for you to
ascend if you were willing to press the accelerator a little, harder,
Right but like like you mentioned, though like that would
involve probably trading one of the young, guys and, like,
Yeah tobias And Duncan robinson are like your salary flats
on maybe even like a carousel avert if you're getting
back like an equivalent like ball handler in the, deal
or if like a jade And ivy proves himself capable
of like just being a primary man ball. Handler half the,
time it's, like, okay in a, way in a way
that Makes LeVert. Expendable you're, like, okay, cool you can do.
That but, yeah there is not a lot of like
trade pieces on this. Roster, NOW i.
Speaker 1: Feel like it'll just end up being a flyer to
where it's like are they Heat AND i don't think they,
are but like are they just willing to like they're
done With Nikola yovic at some point because they're so
cap space pilled for twenty twenty. Seven AND i was
also trying to, think like what is the, Player, like,
yeah they'd be a, funy honest, team But i'm talking
like a non star type or someone who's close to
it to where If i'm The, pistons it would really
get me to like want to make a. Move and
the NAME i came up with was if The hawks
blow it up and Like Jalen johnson just ambles his
way out of the, market and even then it's they
might view him as like the tent pole to build
around for the. Future but it's there's, again there there
are names that you could, say like You, no The
pistons should, Definitely BUT i was trying to think of
justin what is the name that might be gettable that
would get The pistons to, think.
Speaker 2: You want the Name? Dan. Yes so the other guy
that kind of came up in conversations as people were
talking these offseasons Was lori. Marketing, right a guy who
spaces the floor is in the like the good age,
range plays the right. Position the problem is the. Contract
he makes a lot of money for a guy who
if everything like again With duran And asar and Like,
ron you'd be able to build kind of a cohesive
like defensive unit like Around. Laurie but like if you're
Paying laurie fifty million and you're Paying kid fifty, million
and you're Paying duran like twenty four to twenty five,
ish and Then asar's extension comes up and you're, like
all of a, sudden you're like, wait like there's a
lot of. Money, Yeah like how good is this? Team
it's like that that part's, tricky, Right ideally you'd want
a version Of Lauri marknen that made thirty million dollars
instead of like forty eight or whatever he.
Speaker 1: Makes, now, yeah THERE'S i DON'T i mean if you
could get him and it's not a ton of, value
but you're, right like the contract if you're planning on
keeping even just one Of ivy and Or, daring like
because you Have holland And nassar coming up behind, Them,
yeah it gets super. Complicated, yeah what about this IS
i don't this would be the, guy BUT i don't
believe he's, available even though there was that report Like
Trey murphy would be an excellent fit this Bins. ROSSER
i just can't imagine that he's, available ALTHOUGH i don't
know with.
Speaker 2: We do have All Troy weaver's favorite, players, right that
is the advantage The pistons. Have it's like we know
who he. Likes that's Like Troy weaver really Loves Isaiah.
Stewart it's like you Put Isaiah stewart in A Trey murphy,
deal like you and you Get Kevon looney, Back like
maybe maybe you start to cook a little, bit.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay so this actually feels like a pretty easy
exercise for this. Team but what's the ten man? Rotation
it feels like there's just nine locks of these guys
will be getting regular minutes and there might be some
fighting towards the bottom of the.
Speaker 2: Batrel, yeah, yeah it's so your starters are most Likely
Caid IVY A Sar tobias during your bench is most
likely Like Caris Duncan Stu ron question. Mark perhaps that question,
Mark perhaps that question mark Is Malie beasley Dan. Uh
perhaps that question mark is Is Marcus? Sasser, Right PERHAPS
i don't think they'll go with a nine man. Rotation
they liked the full bench lineups last. YEAR i was
in favor of. THAT i think that that preserved. GUYS
i think that Preserved kid and the Preserved tobias in
ways that, you like you probably want to. Continue so,
YEAH i do think that there's like there's some potential
there for for ten men. Rotations. Yeah maybe maybe that's
a maybe that's maybe early in the. Season that's like
A Bobie clintman as a way to, say, like, hey
like maybe he didn't have the best summer, league but
we need to run this out to like see what
he's got before things go. Forward maybe that's something a little,
funky like, hey, like, Hey, paul like you played pretty,
well like when we asked you to last, Year like
how would you like to just like be a like
weird double big lineup with stew and like one of
you gets to take like two threes per thirty six.
Possessions it's like this stuff can, happen, Right but, yeah
the nine man core like seems pretty locked in in
that question mark remains a.
Speaker 1: Mystery this is to some extent matchup. Dependent but what
do you think winds up being their go to closing?
Unit is it just the starters or is there a
spot or two that you could see them fuzzing and fiddling.
Speaker 2: WITH i think it's probably just the. Starters ivy is
the most, fungible where like maybe if you need some more, defense,
uh It's ron or something like. That if you need
some more, shooting like maybe It's Duncan robinson or something like.
That But i'd probably they probably want to close with
their starting lineup most of the.
Speaker 1: Time is there a weird o lineup you want to SEE.
Jb Bicker staff trying this?
Speaker 2: Year they're so. Dan i've you, Know i've been begging
for years for a lineup Where kate Is. DAN i
had to Watch Marvin bagley And James wiseman, like don't
do this to. Me, No i've been begging for for
years from a lineup Where kate is the smallest guy
on the floor and like you have enough like and
he is like maybe the worst, defender, right so like
if you're you're conceiving that, now like he probably can't
be the worst defender in this. Lineup but you can
put together like A K Duncan Asar Ron duram lineup
that like kind of like fits that. Narrative you can
put together if if you want to like space the
floor a little bit, more you can put together like
A K Duncan, robinson Uh To Bias ron Like stuart
line up and just Encourage stuart to like stay out
on the perimeter and like keep this floor the floor.
Spaced but, yeah like that's that's a weird that's the weirdsh.
Lineup and like you COULD i, mean like you could
Play stuart and during. Together you saw how that. WENT
i actually didn't go, terribly but like that that would be.
FUNKY i don't know If i'd like. It it would be.
Speaker 1: Funky paul read it the three maybe then in those.
Speaker 2: Minutes So, dan but give me your lineup BECAUSE i
know you're playing Like Sasser ivy And kad like all
in the in the back court together with like A
sar at the.
Speaker 1: Four my lineup doesn't Have kid BECAUSE i just want
to see a Sar thompson as, like let's try to
juice up his. Playmaking SO i would Have Stuart Robinson
harris and Then i'm gonna just Throw chaslin here in
there BECAUSE i think that he could really. Shoot and
then it's a Sar. Thompson it's Just i'm Having stuart
like he'll space on some. Occasion so THEN i viewed
as A sar plus four. Shooters, now if the League beasley's,
BACK i will allow him to Replace Chaslin hear in that.
Lineup i'll allow. It it'll take a lot out of,
me but BUT i will for sure allow.
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, OKAY i like the conceptualization of that. Lineup,
Yeah and that's definitely a line up where it's Like
asar has to do all the ball handling because nobody else.
Speaker 1: Is, nolivert No Ivy and, okay that was on, purpose
that wasn't an over. Said so BEFORE i force you
to make some, predictions are there is there anything else
anyone else on this team about this team that we
have not discussed that you Think warren's.
Speaker 2: Conversation so this would be the spot WHERE i bring
Up Dannis, jenkins but because you are so, thorough you
already had him in so, no we're.
Speaker 1: Good is that is He like if you're looking at
kind of the the guys that could be like, Surprised
oh they're in the? Rotation is like a tenth or ninth?
Man is that you're pick for? It do you think
it could Be? Smith and then it's all like, shit
he's on a two, Way like we're gonna have to convert.
Speaker 2: THAT i definitely think Like Danis jenkins could be a.
Surprise it would not shock me if like training camp
comes out and you're hearing a lot of like Like
Dannis jenkins looks looks really good in training, Camp like
he's clawing, Minutes like he's clawing his way in the
lineups that we didn't expect him. To it's like Why
and like you come to the first preseason game and you're, like,
wait why is why Are Danis jenkins And jade And
ivy on the floor? Together like that's kind of. Weird
it's like what are they? COOKING i definitely think that
there's there's a possibility. There, Yes.
Speaker 1: So predictions, time how many games do you see them
winning and where do you see them landing in the
regular season standings for The Eastern.
Speaker 2: Conference all, right this is this is the tough. Thing
so let's level set. Expectations, right you, lose you get
the sixth, seed you avoid the play, in you lose
in the first round of the playoffs last. Season for,
me the goal this year should should be for this
team to win a first round playoff. Series that should
be the goal you should look to advance in the.
Playoffs what what makes that goal? EASIER a staying out
of the play in just like you, know not having
to worry about any of the bs that candor can't
happen to the play IN b getting home. Court getting
home court matters if you're trying to win an actual playoff.
Series so to do, that you have to win in
the regular, season and you have to win probably in
the neighborhood of like forty five to forty seven games
in the regular. Season to, me that should be what
The pistons like shoot. For they should shoot for being
like a fifty win. Team land short of, that try
and get the four seed and like win your first
round home court. Series that should be the goal of this.
Season DO i think they can DO i think they do. That,
NO i. DON'T i don't think they do. THAT i
think between the improvements that The magic made this offseason
from a roster, perspective between like the wholesale revamped thing
The hawks have going. On The hawks are really good
and looked LIKE I i was not A Jalen johnson,
person like he convinced me last. Year they really missed.
Him getting him back will be. Huge and then obviously
you've got like you Got, cleveland you Got New, york you.
Speaker 1: Got milwaukee Who Johannis turner and.
Speaker 2: Dudes, Yeah Like i'm always reticent to count Out milwaukee
ahead of The pistons because The pistons have just never
been able to beat, you honest in any, way shape
or form like other teams, can but like we. Can't
so like it's easy for me to be, like all,
right like maybe that's like the fourth seed and like
we get the fifth seed AND i hate that playoff, matchup,
Right but, YEAH i would like for The pistons to
get into a spot where they're the fourth seed or.
HIGHER i don't think they get, there but like for,
me IF i hope they prove me. WRONG i hope
them in a space where they prove me.
Speaker 1: WRONG i think for, them it's like them maybe more
so than any team in The Eastern. Conference, yeah because
Like orlando pushed all its chips, in like progress isn't,
linear and so if they end up winning like forty
one or forty two, games but you come away, thinking
Like Ron holland shot really well from the, floor and
we got more out of offense From asar And jade
And ivy really good both with and Without Kate, cunningham
and it just. Broke things just broke wrongly in The
east that still can count as, progress AND i think
that's probably what fans need to. Remember but they're also
in a spot WHERE i don't know WHERE i would
put them in the standings. Exactly but how many teams
we're sitting here today Early september would you be prepared
to guarantee are going to be better than them in
The east next? Season like it's probably, Three.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's Like, Cleveland New york and if, possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah orlando Or atlanta, Maybe and then LIKE i don't
know what to feel about The. Sixers i'm never gonna
give them the benefit of the doubt at this, point
but they're the mother of all wild.
Speaker 2: Guards, yeah, exactly. Exactly sixers are really, little by the,
way like Without embeed's a lot of.
Speaker 1: Guards, YEAH i, MEAN i don't know the dynamic between
And i'm Assuming Quentin grimes will be. Back we're still
waiting for that whole situation to play. Out so what's
the matchup if you're looking at this through a postseason
lens that either concerns you or you would find most. Fascinating,
again as of Early, september this is something that could
of course.
Speaker 2: Change, Yeah, yeah definitely the Matchup i'd be most afraid
of is again The milwaukee. Matchup just never an answer for.
That jannis, GUY.
Speaker 1: I have an. Answer play him next To Kyle kuzma
and there's The pistons. Answer that's how you.
Speaker 2: Just like mind Controlled doc in the Playing kuzma thirty
five minutes a.
Speaker 1: Game you don't got to mind control him into doing
anything like.
Speaker 2: That. Now but like good, MATCHUPS i, think like we
we saw this in the, playoffs they match up sneakily
like pretty well With New. York they Played cleveland very,
COMPETITIVELY i believe in like three out of the four
games this. Season is that a MATCHUP i like want,
no but LIKE i don't think that's like an atrocious
matchup for. THEM i want to see How indiana restructures
things Without halliburton and Without, turner but.
Speaker 1: Is there SO i think they'll run everything through, him
as my.
Speaker 2: Guess but those were also some like pretty, fun pretty
competitive games last. Season i'd be curious to see more of.
That And Atlanta. Atlanta they Beat atlanta a lot last
year Because kid can post Up tray and that's like
it's really funny to watch them like scramble everything so
that doesn't happen and Then kid just like makes it happen.
Anyway But atlanta's, like you, know restructured the whole team and,
everything and like Maybe Chris tops, plays Maybe christops doesn't,
play and like that changes the whole matchup or. Whatever but,
yeah like that that's another. Team orlando's too damn big.
Speaker 1: Too that's my pick, though IS i feel like somebody
would like be put in the hospital during that between
A Piston's magic, series that would be you, know you
thought Like Piston's nicks was really, physical BUT i just
feel Like Piston's magics would be a whole different, type
like a Different now you Imagine Isaiah stewart playing like
if he's healthy and playing in that, Series my, God.
Speaker 2: So Like stewart would be Guarding polo by game, three
and it's just like just like chest to, check just
like a war every possession for twenty four, seconds because
that's how long it Takes paula to get to a.
Shot but not.
Speaker 1: Anymore he's got some space to work with, now maybe not,
enough BUT i don't think it'll take him that long.
Anymore but, Yeah i'm with.
Speaker 2: YOU i.
Speaker 1: Would i'm begging for that team to get out in transition.
More that was one of the fun things about What
kden The pistons were doing last. Year so CAN i
get one more prediction from you about This piston? Squad
could be. Anything you can take it wherever you.
Speaker 2: Want Jalen duran signs an extension before the, Deadline Jaden
ivy does, not.
Speaker 1: He'll create an awkward dynamic in a.
Speaker 2: Lot, yes yes it.
Speaker 1: WOULD i thought it was going to be more of
like an all or nothing proposition with them to where, it's,
oh both of them will get an extension or nobody's
getting an.
Speaker 2: EXTENSION i THINK i Think Tradan lannon is very. PRAGMATIC
i think it's THE i think the gap between what
both sides want is smaller on The durham, side AND
i think that, like as you get into, camp you
like mixed. Up you see these guys play together, Again you're,
like all, right, like let's let's make this. Happen WHEREAS i,
think Like jade And ivy like has more to, prove
can prove, more is capable of proving, more and so
it's easier for me to see a scenario where he's, like,
no Like i'm gonna ball out this, year like we're
gonna win fifty, Games i'm gonna ball, out And i'm
gonna make thirty million dollars a. Year and it's like, yeah,
Man galaspy like go for. It BUT i don't know
if Trading lady wants to give you thirty million dollars a.
Speaker 1: Year so we'll see if you're Predicting durren gets an.
Extension i'm gonna set the over under on his contract
at twenty four million dollars on average per. Year you
take the over of the under on.
Speaker 2: That I'm i'm gonna take the. Over say it's like
twenty five ish four, years one hundred and one million
dollars a.
Speaker 1: Year just get the little extra spread out he's making a.
Speaker 2: Year, yeah get the tiny. Extra so like when like
Someone Mark williams signs for like four for, ninety you
can HAVE jd like and his agent kind of like
dap each other up and be, like see we did
better than this.
Speaker 1: Guy right if The sons Give Mark williams four years
and ninety million dollars after up at, First oh my, god.
Speaker 2: Put a past. Match put it Past matt ishb put
it past.
Speaker 1: Him, NO i won't want.
Speaker 2: Anything, uh this was, Great Like, Matt, matt if you
buy a chance or like are listening to, this just
like pour more money Into Michigan state IN, il like
that's what we. Need like stop wasting your time with
These Phoenix suns, Dudes like your money would be served
better like making everything about The Spartan stadium, experience like
better put more money Into Nile. Collective, Okay i'm, done.
Speaker 1: Rather than try to hire people With michigan ties to help.
Speaker 2: Him, yeah it's like if you want to be In,
michigan just come back To, michigan, Bro like we got.
You just write the.
Speaker 1: Check he's wanting to write. Checks he's also well in
his having this self owned was like one of my
favorite like social media posts of. Whatever he's just he's
reacting TO espn saying The suns are going to. Regress he's, like,
yeah well they thought we were gonna be good last.
Speaker 2: Year show that we showed, Them, like is that what You? Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Last this was fantastic as, always and thank you as
always given me so much of your. Time are you
able just to tell our, watchers, listeners, subscribers audience, members,
whatever where they can find you and any work that
you would like to plug This, no thank.
Speaker 2: You dan once again for having. Me you said this
is year, seven which feels wild to. ME i feel
so valued and blessed that after all these, years you're still,
like you know, WHAT i want to talk to that
last guy about The Detroit.
Speaker 1: Pistons it, means, LOOK i just appreciate that you have
a low bar for appreciating. Stuff that's All i'm.
Speaker 2: Saying you can still find me on the social media's
at Last, chance that's AT la z C H a
n C. E you can still find anything THAT i
have time to write At Detroit Bad, boys Which vox
LIKE sb like recently like redid some stuff on the
site that looks pretty. Cool shout out To Fearless Leaders Sean.
Corp for pulling everything together with. That and Then i'd
like to shout Out Bryce simon Of MotorCity, hoops who
does a really great job just like expanding The piston's
content space and is one of the dudes, that, LIKE
i just really love talking to you about, Basketball so
shout out To.
Speaker 1: Bryce thank you. Again, last as you know by, Now
i'll be pestering you again in the.
Speaker 2: Future can't. Wait