WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.720 UH, and we felt that was a bit of a 2 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:07.280 gap in the market for xop as well as also 3 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:09.640 the fact that you know xopp in terms of the 4 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:15.679 XVP army has a very large following globally UH and 5 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:17.359 we're generally part of that as well. 6 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:25.600 So this episode is brought to you by Uphold, which 7 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.879 is a great crypto platform that makes it easy to buy, sell, 8 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:34.039 and stay crypto assets. Uphold has over three hundred plus cryptocurrencies, 9 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:37.079 including Bitcoin in all the top all coins, and they 10 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:41.840 offer a crypto staking on over nineteen crypto assets. I've 11 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.479 been a user of the platform for many years. They 12 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.840 are safe and reliable, they don't commingle or lend out 13 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.359 your crypto funds, and they are one hundred percent reserve. 14 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:55.679 You can review their transparency report. Uphold also offers an 15 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.679 amazing rewards program where you can earn up to five 16 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:02.520 point two five percent on stable coins. This rewards program 17 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:05.640 also allows you to get twenty four hour early access 18 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:09.120 to new tokens that they list, and to participate, you 19 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:11.719 just simply have to open the app once per month, 20 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:14.959 deposit fifty dollars once per month, and trade fifty dollars 21 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.719 once per month, and the stable coins that they support 22 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:20.719 includes ripples r l USD. You can earn up to 23 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:24.200 five percent on that stable coin and five point twenty 24 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:27.719 five percent on USBC. So if you'd like to learn 25 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:30.439 more about Uphold and all the great services they offer, 26 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.120 visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into 27 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:36.959 the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and 28 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:40.040 joining me today is Kevin Chin, who's the executive chairman 29 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.719 and CEO of Vivo Power, and Adam Trademan, who's the 30 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.159 chairman of the Board of Advisors for Vivo Power and 31 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:52.079 the former CEO of SBI Ripple Asia. Kevin, Adam, great 32 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:52.719 to have you both. 33 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.359 Thank you, Tony. Thanks, happy to be here, Yeah, great 34 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:58.239 to be on. Thank you. 35 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.599 Yeah. I'm super excited to speak with you both because 36 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.640 we of course got the very big news of Vivopower 37 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:10.240 adopting an XRP Treasury Reserve asset strategy, and you're doing 38 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:12.159 much more than that. So I have a lot of 39 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:14.520 questions for you, but let's kick it off with some 40 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:18.080 quick introductions. Kevin, tell us a bit about your background 41 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.240 and Vivo Power as well. 42 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:23.120 Sure, Tony, thanks again. 43 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:29.039 So background wise, I've been an entrepreneur across different industries 44 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:33.680 for twenty plus years, both from an operational and an 45 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:39.719 investing perspective. My crypto journey actually started with buying XRP 46 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:44.360 in twenty sixteen, so that was my first coin that 47 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:48.319 I bought, and I was attracted to the utility and 48 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:53.439 it's mission then of disrupting and improving payment flows around 49 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.520 the world, particularly to emerging markets. I do a whole 50 00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:02.599 bunch of stuff in developing nations, both from a for 51 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.520 profit as well as nonprofit perspective, and could see some 52 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:09.240 of the real life challenges there. So, you know, fast 53 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:13.719 forward to today, when the opportunity came about to turn 54 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:18.960 Vivo into a crypto, I was sorry an XTRP focus, 55 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.000 not just Treasury company, but Treasury and DeFi Solutions company. 56 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:26.599 I really felt convicted to do that, as did the 57 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:32.319 rest of the board, and fortudiously was able to meet Adam, 58 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.680 and Adam has been instrumental, given his background and experience 59 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:42.319 to help us launch and we're now in full blown 60 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:43.960 execution mode. 61 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:48.080 Yeah, that's exciting, Adam. I know of your background because 62 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.439 we've spoken many times over the years, but for those 63 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:52.120 who may not know, you give us a bit of 64 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:53.400 a background on yourself. 65 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.840 Sure, Thanks Tony, and thanks again for having us on. 66 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:58.879 It's great to talk to you again. I'm originally an 67 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:03.240 engineer from Sylvie Valley. I was actually in a completely 68 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:07.240 different industry and JIP design started my career at NASA 69 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.719 and cal Tech. Over time after moving to the Valley, 70 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:14.439 I became a serial entrepreneur and then the founding CEO 71 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.600 of five companies. Raised about three hundred million dollars for 72 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:21.519 those companies, and it was fortunate enough to build great 73 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:26.920 products and teams and make my team's employees and shareholders 74 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.639 money as a result of that by exiting those companies. 75 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.160 I got into crypto about ten years ago or eleven 76 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.399 twenty fourteen. To be honest, I was really, really skeptical 77 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:39.439 at first. I probably mentioned that to you when we 78 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:43.160 spoke before. I was approached by an ex employee of 79 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.879 mine to get into crypto. He said bitcoin is the 80 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.079 most important thing going on in your lifetime. I thought 81 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.240 it was crazy. I didn't talk to him for a year. 82 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.079 He's now a much wealthier man than I am. But 83 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.600 about a year later we joined forces and created the 84 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.800 first bitcoin, which at the time was the only cryptocurrency 85 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.240 self custody wallet that was in the Apple App Store 86 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:07.360 on the day that Apple allowed the coin apps. We 87 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.160 built that business up to about fifteen million users in 88 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.959 twenty million in assets on platform and sold it to Coinbase. 89 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.319 I was at Coinbase for a while. Parallel to all that, 90 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.519 as you mentioned before, I was the CEO of SBI 91 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:24.480 and Rivols joint venture in Asia based in Tokyo, handling 92 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:29.360 rivals to Asia business mainly for across wordter financial transactions remittances, 93 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:32.959 you know, and to kind of promote and license their 94 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:37.639 technology to large banks, central banks in Southeast Asia and 95 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.439 other parts of Asia as well, so get a lot 96 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.800 of exposure. I sat on the board of Ribel Labs 97 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:46.680 for a while, also very very intimate with them, and 98 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:52.240 so when Kevin approached me with the vision for Vivo Power, 99 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.560 my background gave a unique perspective and so I decided 100 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.920 to join the company as the chairman of their advisory board. 101 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:03.519 I think we've all been watching digital asset treasury companies 102 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:07.959 after Michael Sailor's huge success of micro Strategy Meta Planet 103 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:11.920 in Japan as well, obviously a huge success, and now 104 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.519 there's gosh, over one hundred other ones out there. View 105 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.800 of Power was the first with XRP and made a 106 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.040 big announcement as you mentioned a few weeks ago, with 107 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.839 a big financial race on top of that in collaboration 108 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:28.439 with Ripple. So that's exciting. But what really attracted me 109 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:30.680 to Kevin and his team where they're not just another 110 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.800 digital asset play. It's not just about how can I 111 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:37.240 buy into the underlying asset in this case XRP through 112 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.920 a public equities market with their nastactorate at stock VPR. 113 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.560 It's about their strategy to really grow the whole XRPL 114 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.279 ecosystem and really grow the pie. And they have material 115 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.480 ways that they're doing that, from a venture fund to 116 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:57.600 their own businesses, promoting and adopting XRP as a payment 117 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:02.560 method and a method of I'm streating money and across 118 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:08.439 order solution, as well as really trying to figure out 119 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:11.279 how to support the ecosystem in a variety of new ways. 120 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.319 So instead of just holding the asset like micro strategies doing, 121 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.399 the VVO team is really trying to grow the overall 122 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.560 XRFL ecosystem, and I think that's what brought me and 123 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.079 my interest to the company and what also keeps us 124 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:26.639 really closely hitched to ripple as well. 125 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:32.600 Yeah, it's so fascinating this trend that is happening. It 126 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.240 seems to be a paradigm shift of how corporates and 127 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.319 enterprises can adopt crypto and to your point, not just 128 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.680 hold the asset, but go beyond that. You know, do 129 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:44.439 you see this being a trend that continues to grow 130 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:49.000 and a new way for companies to monetize and also 131 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:52.000 preserve their wealth or the cash on their balance sheet. 132 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:55.279 Right, So I mean treachery management for any company private 133 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:57.560 or public is there's fonsibility of the aufice of the 134 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.519 CFO generally, right, and they have a variety of methods 135 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:03.319 that they use in tradfi in order to try to 136 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.360 make a return on their assets, the currency and other 137 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:11.639 assets that they're holding, right as a responsibility to their shareholders. Again, 138 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:15.079 whether they're private or public. I think companies like micro 139 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:18.160 Strategy and Vivo Power we are we are the vanguard, 140 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:21.319 We are the tivitys sphere, right, we are the ones 141 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:27.079 who are pioneering this strategy of not only holding crypto 142 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:30.120 on our balance sheets, but really trying to hit an 143 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:32.279 m NAV that is that is higher than the net 144 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.600 asset value, Right, by doing things that go beyond just 145 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:40.720 holding the asset. My theory, Tony is today it's companies 146 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:42.879 like us that are holding crypto on the balance sheet. 147 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.320 Sometime in the not too distant future, every private and 148 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.240 public company is going to be holding crypto on their 149 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:50.279 balance sheet. It's just the right thing to do for 150 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:51.120 your shareholders. 151 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:52.600 Wow. 152 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:55.879 And just just to add to that, Tony, you know, 153 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:58.960 what we're seeing around the world is legislation being passed 154 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.360 by government. 155 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:02.279 By stock exchanges. 156 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.000 To allow companies to hold digital ascets and crypto on 157 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.440 their balance sheets, whereas previously, you know, in countries like 158 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:15.759 South Korea, you know, Pakistani UEE, that that wasn't permissible. 159 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:21.000 Kevin. For those who may not know of Vivo Power, 160 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:23.639 and when you went public and so forth, tell us 161 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:25.639 a bit about what the company does and when did 162 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:26.279 you go public. 163 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.879 Sure, So we actually went public in late twenty sixteen, 164 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.679 so we'd been a listed company on Nasdaq for almost 165 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:39.080 a decade. We started off as a solid development company, 166 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.360 grew very fast, you know, went from zero to twenty 167 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.000 mili bit dara in two years, and that was really 168 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.320 what kind of spawned the interest to take us public. 169 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.440 Over the years, it's been you know, a choppy ride 170 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.440 at times, and we about five six years ago also 171 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.559 entered by acquisition to the electric vehicle business, albeit in 172 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:04.200 a niche. 173 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:06.279 It's a very large niche. 174 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:08.879 It's sort of for off road applications, so we do 175 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:14.799 electric vehicle conversions for safari operators, for mining, for agriculture, 176 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.879 so on and so forth. We decided to about a 177 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:23.279 year ago spin out that business into a separate listed company, 178 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:31.360 so we were looking to repurpose Vivo into a new business, 179 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:35.639 and we've been working on this digital asset strategy for 180 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:40.320 you know, since September last year, So that's a bit 181 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:40.919 of the history. 182 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:45.120 Now. The decision to choose XRP as the asset because 183 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.679 there's bitcoins, ethan others out there. Was it because of 184 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.440 your initial investment in XRP, going back to your first 185 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:57.120 foray in crypto assets, or was there another reason that. 186 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:58.279 Was part of it? 187 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:05.559 So I have genuine conviction in XRP and what it's 188 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:10.919 doing and what it can do in terms of a 189 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:14.799 raft of DeFi solutions right for markets around the world 190 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:17.120 that we've been active in in terms of investing and 191 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:20.559 operating businesses. So that was a big part of it 192 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.279 for sure, but also you know, by virtue of the 193 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.279 fact that you know, I think there's more than one 194 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.279 hundred bitcoin treasury companies as well, we felt that was 195 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.879 you know, quite crowded already and there are people doing 196 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:37.600 it very well in the markets already. Similarly with Solana 197 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.080 and EATH, there were already sort of other players you know, 198 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:45.360 coming to market or already you know, launched, and we 199 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:46.879 felt there was a bit of a gap in the 200 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:48.919 market for XRP. 201 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.919 As well as also the fact that. 202 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:55.559 You know, XRP in terms of the XRP army has 203 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:00.759 a very large following globally and. 204 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.000 And we're generally part of that as well. 205 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:05.799 So you know that that was that, you know that 206 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.279 some of the reasons. 207 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:12.000 And can people who right now can access let's say 208 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.039 an x r P e t F use this stock 209 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.679 as kind of a pseudo e t F to to 210 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:17.840 get exposure to XRP. 211 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:21.320 Yeah, basically, that's that's our. 212 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:28.519 Strategy with respect to allowing those who would like to 213 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.399 get exposure to XRP or ripple in terms of you know, 214 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:38.039 not not just the token, but in terms of DeFi solutions. 215 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.879 You know, as Ada mentioned, we will be investing in 216 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:47.279 companies that are building off the x RPL ledger. We 217 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:53.440 are also committed to investing surplus fear at US dollars 218 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.080 into r l U s D, which is the. 219 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.480 Stable coin you know for ripple. 220 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.200 So to the extent someone wants to gain exposure to 221 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:10.519 XRP and the broader sort of ripple ecosystem and mission 222 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:15.320 of helping to grow that pie, this is a listed 223 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:17.679 regulated proxy for doing. 224 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:22.440 That, that's right. So VVPR stock is basically a proxy 225 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:27.080 in an equity form for XRP and also for sort 226 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:31.240 of the entire ecosystem. Like Kevin said, in addition to 227 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.240 investing in XRPR related companies, our goal with that is 228 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.120 to help companies that can help us, right ye, earn 229 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:44.559 yield on our XRP holdings, so that we can actually 230 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:49.080 earn yield on that XRP the workholding, which will create 231 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.559 hopefully an increase in our net assets, right and hopefully 232 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:58.000 a better return for our shareholders. That's the ultimate goal, right. 233 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.120 So we're definitely a proxy for the you know, here 234 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.200 in the in the US, Tony, you can't there's a 235 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.159 big market, say for MicroStrategy. When people want to buy 236 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.360 in their retirement accounts, right, like their four oh one 237 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.440 k or iris. Right, there's no way to buy XRP 238 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.559 there today, and so you're right, VVPR offers a great 239 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.200 proxy for folks who who want to get XRP exposure 240 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.320 but otherwise can't directly. 241 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:27.000 And with the DeFi component. I'm curious about this and 242 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.919 is the yield so to speak, going to be paid 243 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:32.399 out in like a dividend. 244 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.759 Right, so that that would be that would be the plan, 245 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.240 and so it would be a direct benefit for the users. Now, 246 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:44.559 the current generation ETFs like that you see for dickcoin 247 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:47.360 or whatever, they can't actually or theory of they can't 248 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.240 actually go and generate a yield and do staking and 249 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:55.000 other things. Right, So even the upcoming XRP ETF will 250 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.720 probably be held back in that scenario. So in this case, 251 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.679 you're you're getting the benefit of that upside through the 252 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.039 exposure in the equity. I think that's a real differentiator 253 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:06.399 for potential investors. 254 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.960 Oh absolutely, I love that, And I know a lot 255 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.679 of institutions and folks are hunting for yield because they 256 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.240 hold the asset, but if they can get the yield 257 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.159 with it, that would be It's really a great incentive. 258 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.240 Can you imagine if if Michael Saylor was doing that 259 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.559 micro strategy, just how much more that company would be successful. 260 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.000 And that's why we're trying to kind of one up 261 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.799 you know, that sort of standard model in the Treasury's list. 262 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.639 Sure, Now as far as the purchasing of XRP, are 263 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:37.399 using the cash on your balance you or are you 264 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.240 raising debt to do that? 265 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:43.799 We're raising equity to do that at the moment. So 266 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:48.559 we have an anchor investor in his role, Highness Prince 267 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:54.080 Subdulaziz from Saudi Arabia, So he himself has been a 268 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.360 holder of xed up piece since twenty seventeen. So that's 269 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:59.879 how the kind of dots joined and why it was 270 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.200 interested in the project as well with us. So at 271 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:10.399 the outset, we're using equity uh to to fund you know, 272 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.840 the build out of the treasury and DeFi Solutions strategy. 273 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.200 In terms of debt, we don't have plans to you know, 274 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:22.279 take on debt at this stage, you know, to increase, 275 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.720 but in in due time if it makes sense and 276 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:29.679 if the cost of capital equation stacks up and the 277 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.080 sort of risk reward stacks up, then we would consider 278 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:33.440 doing so. 279 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.440 Is it similar to the Michael Saylor's model, Tony where 280 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.080 he always says delucion is a creative which you know, 281 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.159 is that is an illogical thing to say, but he 282 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.399 has proven that he's right, right, So it's a similar 283 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.080 kind of thing. You issue more shares, right, and to 284 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.960 use that to buy the underlying outset, and then as 285 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:58.799 a result you end up ultimately outperforming the underlying outset, 286 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:03.600 and so there is appreciation, say in micro strategy stock price, 287 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:04.680 that's pretty imperant. 288 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:05.559 Yeah. 289 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.799 Absolutely. Now there was an announcement of a partnership with 290 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:13.079 Bidgo for custody as well as Flair for the DeFi yield. 291 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.079 Tell us about those partnerships and how do you foresee 292 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.799 working with those folks. 293 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.119 Well, Bicco for custody. I've worked with Biko since the 294 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.960 beginning of Bicco. Actually know the founder as well and 295 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.279 the whole team there, so there's a lot of trust 296 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.079 and we've been a customer there as many times before 297 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:35.000 my companies have right and so yes, our press release 298 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.440 talked about using them for as a custody provider as 299 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.279 well as an OTC desk for our Fiat conversions into 300 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.519 XRP and then to custody the XRP and r l 301 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.440 USD that we as a company are holding, So we're 302 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.200 excited to be working with them. They're best in class, 303 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.759 US based and a really really great team of people 304 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.319 when it comes to Flare, Flair is our first partner 305 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:03.599 on the DeFi yield generation piece. Ripple as an investor 306 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.119 in Flair, we've known the Flair team for a very 307 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.400 long time. I have to my prior work in crypto. 308 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:13.319 There's a lot of trust there. Ripple really highly recommends 309 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.720 them as well, so they're going to be our first 310 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:20.480 partner where we're in trusting XRPE onto their network in 311 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:21.599 order to generate yield. 312 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.720 Now you mentioned also holding our l U s D 313 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.720 which is Ripples stable coin also you can generate yield 314 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.240 from that in doing different things. But are you planning 315 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.279 to also use the stable coin for payments, whether it 316 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:37.200 be cross border, internal or whatever it may be? 317 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:39.839 Absolutely absolutely so. 318 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.000 You know, we're active through various parts about business, particularly 319 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:49.519 across South East Asia, developing nations in Africa like Ghanner 320 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:53.400 and Kenya, and we've experienced, you know, firsthand, and we 321 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:57.079 still do experience it, the friction of you know, international 322 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:02.680 wiring and so that's getting caught up in the swift system. 323 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.319 So our o USD is you know, something that's growing 324 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.160 itself and we're committed to using that. 325 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:16.279 In terms of some of our businesses as well. 326 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.720 So actually in the next few weeks we're going to 327 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:26.480 start trialing that with regards to some of our Philippines 328 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.039 based businesses already. 329 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.599 And obviously you're using our l U s D And 330 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.240 obviously the XRP ledger is connected to Ripple, but you're 331 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.200 not working with Ripple directly. You're independent, right. 332 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.759 We're independent, but you know, by virtue of Adam and others, 333 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:46.200 we've formed a good relationship. We were we were at 334 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:53.160 the XRP conference in Singapore, the APEX conference two weeks ago, 335 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.480 so we met you know, all the scenic guys. 336 00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:58.400 And girls and the team. 337 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.960 Fell it very much welcomed, you know, in terms of 338 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:08.720 being part of the XRP ecosystem. You know, met with 339 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.640 Hugo at Flair and his team. They are you know, 340 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:17.200 very generous and warm in terms of introducing us to 341 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:22.799 folks as well. So whilst it's not an official arrangement 342 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:28.640 if you like, at this stage, we know them, we 343 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:31.720 work with them and you know, we genuinely want to 344 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.079 help grow the pie Tony. 345 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.279 I would say we're highly aligned with the Ripple vision, 346 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.519 but we're obviously independent from them. One of the things 347 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:45.039 that that does that is beneficial to the overall ecosystem 348 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.400 is we're not in any way sort of held back 349 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.119 by the issues that they've had with the SEC compliance 350 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.680 and regulatory things that they need to deal with in 351 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.400 their business and have been actually very successful in doing. 352 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.160 But that gives us sort of a parallel track, if 353 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.480 you will, right, And there's a lot of connections between 354 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.400 what we do and what they do, and a lot 355 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:08.240 of goodwill as well. But basically it's all about growing 356 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.200 the buye and so yes, we're very heavily aligned with that. 357 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:14.480 Now, a question I have, and I would ask Michael 358 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.759 Saylor this if I got the interview again and some 359 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:20.720 of the other folks who are doing these treasury strategies. Obviously, 360 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.240 markets move in cycles, right. You have your bull markets, 361 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.480 your bear markets, and there's volatility, and crypto is very volatile. 362 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.119 Let's say the price of XRP continues to go up 363 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.599 and then but eventually there's a turn down the market, 364 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:35.880 as with all markets, how does that affect the x 365 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:38.480 RP you're holding, and how do you prepare for that? 366 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.279 Great question, Tony, And you know, this was a discussion 367 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:46.519 we had in Singapore actually with some of the senior 368 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.880 leaders at Rebulm, you know, and what we said to 369 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:53.599 them is that you know, right now and let's be 370 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:56.839 let's be upfront about this, that there is, you know, 371 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.440 some fervor in the markets in terms of treasury based strategies, 372 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:07.039 if you will. I've been in the markets for twenty 373 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:13.359 five years as an investor IPO five different companies, and 374 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.920 so I've seen all the cycles, you know, have been 375 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.319 through it with Vivopower as well. And what we said 376 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:24.119 to Ripple's leadership is that what's really important for us 377 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.279 is that we will still be here in five years time, 378 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.759 in ten years time, irrespective of what goes on in 379 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.039 the market. And the market is inherently volatile, more so 380 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.880 in crypto than the stock markets. That is an asset though, 381 00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:42.000 that is an asset that you know, you can generate yield, 382 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.960 you can make returns off. And that's part of our 383 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:51.519 goal here is to acknowledge that volatility, to take advantage 384 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.200 of it in a sense, to create value and to 385 00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:01.480 create yield, and I think with regards to you know, 386 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.440 you know, even in I think recent weeks, we've seen 387 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.640 some correction, if you will, in terms of you know, 388 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.160 some of the listed treasury plays. 389 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:13.680 That doesn't bother us. 390 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:17.720 I think it was always coming and that is why 391 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:20.640 I think in terms of our strategy of not just 392 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:25.799 being an asset holding treasury company, but also engaging and 393 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:33.640 building def solutions that ultimately generate income and cash. That's 394 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:37.559 the biggest point of differentiation. That's the reason why we'll 395 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:39.960 still be here in five years time, ten years time, 396 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:42.759 creating value for our shareholders. 397 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:46.359 Got it that It absolutely makes sense, and I see 398 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.480 how critical the yield component is not just only asset 399 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.920 but being able to earn off of it and can 400 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.039 help position you to through maybe. 401 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:57.160