Speaker 1: Callaroga Shark Media. Hi there, Johnny meg And for today's
Speaker 1: daily Comedy News, We're going to take a look at
Speaker 1: the Mount Rushmore of Late Night. I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: this one a lot, so I will share with you
Speaker 1: the history of Late Night off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: then a look at why the actual presidents are on
Speaker 1: the actual Mount Rushmore. And I even used AI to
Speaker 1: help me focus my thoughts here and it was really
Speaker 1: really helpful, So I will share all that. Let's do
Speaker 1: the history of Late Night off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: no notes. So they were cavemen. They had no late
Speaker 1: night shows until Steve Allen came along and hosted the
Speaker 1: first four or five years of the Tonight Show. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about Steven a bit. He did a lot of
Speaker 1: things that you saw throughout the ages, including a lot
Speaker 1: of influence on Letterman. So then he gets too busy
Speaker 1: to keep the show and passes it off to Jack Parr,
Speaker 1: who does a quote unquote smarter version of the show
Speaker 1: and introduces a lot of things that became late night staples.
Speaker 1: Next up, Johnny Carson, and I think for purposes of
Speaker 1: this episode, if you listen to this podcast, I don't
Speaker 1: have to explain Johnny to anybody. So let's just accept
Speaker 1: right now, Johnny Carson's on them Mount Rushmore, right, we
Speaker 1: know that's going to happen. Johnny hangs around for thirty years.
Speaker 1: At some point they expand to twelve thirty and Tom
Speaker 1: Snyder hosts a show. Tom Snyder gives way to David
Speaker 1: Letterman's twelve thirty show. Letterman hopes that he'll get the
Speaker 1: Tonight's Show, but nope, they give it to permanent guest
Speaker 1: host Jay Leno, who hosts the Tonight Show for a while.
Speaker 1: Letterman goes to CBS, and for the first time, we
Speaker 1: really have two competitive late night shows. I know there
Speaker 1: was Dick Cavin and Joey Bishop and some other things
Speaker 1: we'll talk about our senio, but it's really the first
Speaker 1: time that the Tonight Show isn't just the only game
Speaker 1: in town. Letterman rides out his time on CBS. Jay
Speaker 1: Leno passes the Tonight Show off to Conan O'Brien for
Speaker 1: five minutes. Jay takes it back, and eventually we wind
Speaker 1: up in the air of fallon Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel.
Speaker 1: And that's the brief history of late Night. Okay, Hey,
Speaker 1: we'll use that as a focal lens as for the
Speaker 1: actual Mount Rushmore, because if we're doing the Mount Rushmore
Speaker 1: of Late Night, I thought that would be an interesting
Speaker 1: lens in which to look at this. George Washington represents
Speaker 1: the birth and founding of the nation as the first president.
Speaker 1: Think about that. Thomas Jefferson symbolizes expansion, particularly the Louisiana
Speaker 1: purchase and his role in writing the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln represents the preservation of the Union, and Theodore
Speaker 1: Roosevelt embodies the nation's development. Is known for his conservation
Speaker 1: efforts the Panama Canal and his role in the industrial boom,
Speaker 1: and a bit of a maverick. And I think we
Speaker 1: can find some inspiration there, all right. Who has hosted
Speaker 1: the most years in Late Night? David Letterman at thirty
Speaker 1: three years, Wow, Johnny Carson did thirty Conan twenty eight,
Speaker 1: Bill Maher, who hasn't come up in these discussions at all,
Speaker 1: twenty two years in Late Night. So I think that's
Speaker 1: the equivalent of a guy in baseball who's just accumulating
Speaker 1: stats and nobody ever went there's the best player in
Speaker 1: the game, and sometimes those guys make the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: Bill's not getting a spot on Mount Rushmore. Jay Leno
Speaker 1: also twenty two years in Late Night. Jimmy Kimmel already
Speaker 1: at twenty years, How is that possible? So? Is Kimmel
Speaker 1: gonna pass Leno and again quietly accumulating stats might make
Speaker 1: some sort of Late Night Hall of Fame because of it?
Speaker 1: But is there a legacy of Jimmy Kimmel? I don't
Speaker 1: think so. Stephen Colbert in his two forms at nineteen,
Speaker 1: John Stewart at seventeen in counting, Jimmy Fallon sixteen in counting,
Speaker 1: Andy Cohen, who hasn't come up at all in these
Speaker 1: discussions sixteen years in counting. So we talk about legacy
Speaker 1: and longevity. On the legacy front, Arsenio Hall absolutely has
Speaker 1: a legacy. He does not have longevity. The Arsenio Show
Speaker 1: ran from January third, nineteen eighty nine, until May twenty seventh,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. Not very long, right, five years. There
Speaker 1: was a reboot in twenty thirteen. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1: I don't either. The reboot ran from September ninth, twenty
Speaker 1: thirteen to May twenty first, twenty fourteen. It's one season.
Speaker 1: Also Arsenio had taken over for Joan Rivers on The
Speaker 1: Late Show in nineteen eighty seven when Joan was fired.
Speaker 1: He hosted it for thirteen weeks and was unexpectedly popular.
Speaker 1: So that's legacy. He definitely has a legacy. We'll talk
Speaker 1: more about him. Longevity is Jay Leno, but I'm not
Speaker 1: sure Jay has legacy. Some folks worth mentioning that aren't
Speaker 1: really part of this conversation. Dickkevit, Joey Bishop, Pat Sayjack Magic, Johnson,
Speaker 1: Chevy Chase, Jerry Lewis had a show for a week,
Speaker 1: like literally one week. Jon Stewart had a show. Did
Speaker 1: David Bernner have a show on ABC for a while,
Speaker 1: I think he did. Joan Rivers comes up a lot.
Speaker 1: She hosted from October ninth, nineteen eighty six to May fifteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven. That is not a long time to
Speaker 1: put somebody on Mount Rushmore. We can put Joan in
Speaker 1: the Late night Hall of Fame for sure, but not
Speaker 1: on Mount Rushmore. All right, Let's look at the case
Speaker 1: for some of these folks. Steve Allen widely credited with
Speaker 1: popularizing the man on the Street interview segment, a staple
Speaker 1: of late night TV. He often featured recurring characters comedic sketches,
Speaker 1: sometimes involving audience participation. He was known for his quick
Speaker 1: wit and improv skills. Steve Allen hosted The Tonight Show
Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty four to nineteen fifty seven. He blended
Speaker 1: stand up comedy, interviews, musical performances, and quirky segments, known
Speaker 1: for making prank phone calls on the show. If I
Speaker 1: had to compare him to Mount Rushmore, he's the George Washington,
Speaker 1: representing the birth and the founding of the nation as
Speaker 1: the first president. Strong case for Steve Allen, he passes
Speaker 1: off to Jack Parr. Jack hosted Tonight from July twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven to March thirtieth, nineteen sixty two. Let
Speaker 1: me read to you from his oh bit in The
Speaker 1: New York Times in two thousand and four. Jack Parr,
Speaker 1: the prickly, often emotional and always unpredictable humorist who turned
Speaker 1: late night TV into a national institution when he was
Speaker 1: the host of The Tonight Show, passed away at a
Speaker 1: eighty five. John O'Connor wrote in The Times in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven. Before Jack Parr, there were various variety shows.
Speaker 1: Doing the midnight watch, he simplified the format into a
Speaker 1: talk show, complete with the sofa and desk set that
Speaker 1: remains a fixture of his secret interesting guests, far more
Speaker 1: so than the celebrity hordes working on product plugs today,
Speaker 1: and an uncanny ability to listen carefully and actually engage
Speaker 1: in clever and often witty conversation William Grimes observed in
Speaker 1: the Times. Long before David Letterman, mister Parr had an
Speaker 1: anarchic streak that inspired him to pair guests like Liberaci
Speaker 1: and Cassius Clay, or Jane Mansfield and Joshauh Gabor to
Speaker 1: get in the ring with a professional wrestler, or to
Speaker 1: shuffle the que cards in the middle of a Robert
Speaker 1: Gulay Judy Gorylan duet that almost sounds like Malaniy's show.
Speaker 1: When network sensors excised at joke about a water closet
Speaker 1: for young ings that's a code for toilet. From the
Speaker 1: show's broadcast in February nineteen sixty, Parr walked off the
Speaker 1: show the next night in protest, leaving announcer Hugh Downs
Speaker 1: to finish the show. Parr didn't return until three weeks
Speaker 1: later on March seventh, He strolled on a stage, struck
Speaker 1: a pose and said, as I was saying, so, I
Speaker 1: asked the AI, what's the case for Jack Parr? Y A,
Speaker 1: I wrote, Steve Allen created the format. Jack Parr gave
Speaker 1: it a soul. Right, that's pretty good. AI. Before Parr
Speaker 1: Late Night was mostly stunts, bits and variety acts. Part
Speaker 1: turned the Tonight show in a place for smart, engaging
Speaker 1: and awful emotional conversations. He brought humanity to a format
Speaker 1: that could have easily stayed shallow and silly. He made
Speaker 1: the interview the heart of the show, not just as
Speaker 1: a publicity stop, but as a space for real talk.
Speaker 1: He can draw a straight line from Parr to Dick Cavett,
Speaker 1: to Letterman to John Stewart. If Allan is the architect,
Speaker 1: Parr is the guy who walked into the house and
Speaker 1: made it feel alive. Strong case for Jack Parr. There
Speaker 1: next up Johnny Carson. Again, if you're listening to this show,
Speaker 1: I don't explain Johnny Carson to you. He's on. I
Speaker 1: forgot to ask it to make a case for Tom Snyder.
Speaker 1: Let me do that. I'm tipping my hand there that
Speaker 1: Tom Snyder didn't make it. But the AI writes, before
Speaker 1: let him in, before Conan, before Stewart, there was Snyder.
Speaker 1: The Tomorrow Show debuted in seventy three, airing after Carson.
Speaker 1: Snyder eventually invented the post midnight talk show format. He
Speaker 1: was on the stand up. He wasn't goofy. He was
Speaker 1: just Tom intense, curious, and weirdly mesmerizing. David Letterman idolized
Speaker 1: Tom Snyder. When Letterman moved to CBS in ninety three,
Speaker 1: he handpicked Snyder to host the Late Late Show. I
Speaker 1: forgot that even happened. Yeah, because he wanted someone who
Speaker 1: wasn't doing a comedy show, just compelling conversation. That's legacy power.
Speaker 1: Onto David Letterman, the AI writes, If there's not a
Speaker 1: place for him on the mountain, then blow the whole
Speaker 1: thing up and start over. Dave rebuilt Late Night as
Speaker 1: something weirder, sharper, and more ironic. When Late Night with
Speaker 1: David Letterman premiere in eighty two. He didn't try to
Speaker 1: out Carson Carson. He created a punk rock version of
Speaker 1: the talk show, remote segments in diners, elevator races, stupid petricks,
Speaker 1: and top ten lists that made no sense. He mocked
Speaker 1: the genre as he mastered it without Dave. There's no Conan,
Speaker 1: no Kimmel, no Colbert, no Felon, no Seth, just a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys trying to be mini Carson's all right,
Speaker 1: let me flip over another card. Carson Letterman, Letterman is
Speaker 1: on the Mount Rushmore. Is there a case for Jay Leno?
Speaker 1: I went back and forth with this. The AI says, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a case for Jay Leno on the late night
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore. But it's not the case you'd make for Letterman,
Speaker 1: Conan or Carson. Leno doesn't make them out on cool
Speaker 1: points or creative innovation. He makes it on a different
Speaker 1: kind of strength dominance. Leno may not have been the
Speaker 1: critics darling, but the guy crushed the ratings. For the
Speaker 1: better part of two decades, The Tonight Show with Jay
Speaker 1: Leno was the most watched late night show in America.
Speaker 1: He beat Letterman, He beat everyone. If late night was
Speaker 1: a sport, Jay was the guy stacking up wins while
Speaker 1: the others are getting profile pieces in The New Yorker.
Speaker 1: Viewers liked him, Middle America liked him. NBC liked his
Speaker 1: ad revenue. That kind of commercial dominance counts in any
Speaker 1: Hall of fame. The guy wrote his own jokes, stayed
Speaker 1: up reading the wires, and was known for outworking everybody
Speaker 1: he spoke to a different America. Letterman was New York cool,
Speaker 1: Conan was Harvard weird. Stuart and Colbert were political. But
Speaker 1: Jay talked to your uncle who watches Wheel of Fortune
Speaker 1: thinks oj jokes are still hilarious. That matters. He connected
Speaker 1: with a vast part of the country that didn't want
Speaker 1: edge or irony. Just a guy in Denham telling safe
Speaker 1: jokes about politicians and celebrities. It kept the Tonight Show
Speaker 1: accessible and mainstream at a time when the rest of
Speaker 1: Late Night was getting sharper, snarky, ear and narrower. Even
Speaker 1: Letterman called him the best stand up in the country
Speaker 1: back in the day. Strong case for Jay Leno, I
Speaker 1: mean he did beat David Letterman. He kept the Tonight
Speaker 1: Show going for two more decades. Should we put him
Speaker 1: up on the mountain? Nah? Yeah, let's circle back. Let's
Speaker 1: see Carson Letterman two more. The case for John Stewart.
Speaker 1: He turned Late Night into a weapon. Before John Stewart
Speaker 1: took over the Daily Show in ninety nine, Late Night
Speaker 1: was mostly entertainment, monologues, movie plugs, the occasional political jab
Speaker 1: Stuart flipped that he made comedy delivery system for truth.
Speaker 1: Satshire became sharp punch lines carried purpose. If you like
Speaker 1: Last Week Tonight, Thanks Stuart, Colbert report full frontal at
Speaker 1: Stan b Hassan Minhaj's Patriot Act, even the later years
Speaker 1: of Weekend Update, that's Stuart's legacy. Yes, he was funny,
Speaker 1: but when it came time to drop the joke, Stuart
Speaker 1: could cut through the noise like nobody else alive. His
Speaker 1: monologue after nine to eleven, his brutal eviseration of cross Fire,
Speaker 1: his takedown of Congress over the nine to eleven First Responders,
Speaker 1: Bill Stewart captured the politically aware millennial who distrusted mainstream
Speaker 1: media but still want to know what the hell was
Speaker 1: going on. He didn't try to reach everyone. He asked
Speaker 1: his audience clearly and honestly, and they trusted him more
Speaker 1: than the news anchors. Multiple studies found Stewart was one
Speaker 1: of the most trusted news sources for young Americans in
Speaker 1: the two thousands. Clearly a case for the Late Night
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, which is a different discussion. I think
Speaker 1: everybody I'm mentioning on the show is in the Late
Speaker 1: night Hall of Fame. But mount Roushmore, Carson, Letterman, you
Speaker 1: get two more. I'm not putting John up. The case
Speaker 1: for Arsenio Hall again, legacy with a capital L longevity. No,
Speaker 1: he had the it factor, the barking crowd, the fingerspin entrance,
Speaker 1: the appointed questions delivered with charm. Arcinio had a charisma
Speaker 1: that connected. He wasn't trying to be Carson, he was
Speaker 1: being himself, and America shot up for it. In his prime,
Speaker 1: he beat Johnny Carson in the ratings with younger viewers
Speaker 1: that was unthinkable. He made being on his couch just
Speaker 1: as valuable as Carson's. He changed politics on Late Night,
Speaker 1: before the Daily Show, before Colbert, before Fellon and slow
Speaker 1: jam the news. There was our Senio playing the sacks
Speaker 1: with Bill Clinton wasn't a gimmick. That moment is widely
Speaker 1: credited with helping Clinton win over younger viewers and reshaping
Speaker 1: how politicians approached pop culture. He made it cool to
Speaker 1: mix politics and entertainment. He built a lane that didn't
Speaker 1: exist before and made sure others could follow. Hall of Fame. Yes,
Speaker 1: Mountain top I can't. I've only got two spots left,
Speaker 1: Carson Letterman and two more. Let's talk about Conan O'Brien.
Speaker 1: I started thinking about Conan, and I'm like, are we
Speaker 1: just gon a love fest with Conan right now? Are
Speaker 1: we possibly overrating Conan right now just because we're into
Speaker 1: what he's been up to when we root for him
Speaker 1: and the whole thing, and he was the fifty million
Speaker 1: dollar underdog, right and so everybody likes the guy. A
Speaker 1: Devil's argument is he Van Hagar. We liked the Iconoclass Show,
Speaker 1: and he followed and did his own version and it
Speaker 1: was differently great. My case against Conan is when he
Speaker 1: put Conan up against Letterman, that's putting Sammy are up
Speaker 1: against David the Roth and Dave One. I'll counter argument that,
Speaker 1: as I've talked about on this show many times, hosting
Speaker 1: the Tonight Show is a certain skill. Jay Leno hosted
Speaker 1: The Tonight Show. The Jay Leno of Tonight was different
Speaker 1: than the edgyj that used to guest on Late Night
Speaker 1: with David Letterman Jimmy Fallon. You've heard me talk about him.
Speaker 1: I think he's much more talented than the role he
Speaker 1: plays as host of the Tonight Show, Conan, same kind
Speaker 1: of box. Conan inherited the Letterman slot with almost no
Speaker 1: on camera experience. Early reviews were brutal, but instead of
Speaker 1: chasing traditional expectations, Conan doubled down on the weird dancing
Speaker 1: Bears masturbating Bear in the year two thousand triumph. It
Speaker 1: wasn't Johnny Carson's Late Night. He helped make absurdity and
Speaker 1: self deprecation the default tone for a generation of comedy writers. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get some commercials in. We've got Carson and Letterman
Speaker 1: and two more. Take the break, we'll come back and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I think. Oh boy, this is fun,
Speaker 1: all right, Carson Letterman spot number three, and I have
Speaker 1: changed my opinion about this, But as the more I
Speaker 1: thought about it, I gotta give it to Steve Allen,
Speaker 1: because George Washington represents the birth and the founding of
Speaker 1: the nation as the first president. Without Steve Allen, there's
Speaker 1: no late night period. He created the Tonight Show in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four. He built the blueprint. Everybody else follows.
Speaker 1: Monologue bits, desk segments, sketches, musical guests, interviews from Carson
Speaker 1: to Conan. It's remixing Steve Allen's formula. Steve Allen makes
Speaker 1: the Late Night mount rushmore all right, Steve Allen, Johnny Carson,
Speaker 1: David Letterman, Who am I giving the fourth spot to
Speaker 1: Conan O'Brien and I wish I were this good? This
Speaker 1: is the AI wrote this. In twenty ten, NBC handed
Speaker 1: the Tonight Show to Conin, only to Yan get back
Speaker 1: for Jay Leno. Within the year. Rather than meltdown, Conan
Speaker 1: delivered some of the most savagely funny, cathartic, and bitter
Speaker 1: yet classic comedy and TV history. His final episodes were
Speaker 1: a mic drop moment and his farewell speech, which was
Speaker 1: if you work with hard in your kind, amazing things
Speaker 1: will happen. Turned him into a folk hero. He went
Speaker 1: from Late Night to The Tonight Show, to Conan on TBS,
Speaker 1: to Conan O'Brien needs a Friend, and somehow kept evolving.
Speaker 1: He took a show on the road, did specials in
Speaker 1: Armenia and Cuba. He made podcast Theys feel like a
Speaker 1: legitimate format for a former network host. Few late night
Speaker 1: stars have redefined themselves as many times as Conan without
Speaker 1: becoming irrelevant. I have a big smile on my face
Speaker 1: as I read that Conan O'Brien makes the late night
Speaker 1: mount Rushmore alongside Steve Allen, Johnny Carson, and David Letterman.
Speaker 1: Those are four. If I had a fifth, I would
Speaker 1: give it to Jay Leno. But again there's no legacy,
Speaker 1: and any legacy is tied back to the Conan fiasco.
Speaker 1: A good caretaker, but didn't advance the format, which is
Speaker 1: no sin and it is exactly what the gig is.
Speaker 1: Jay hosted the Tonight show and kept the ship steady.
Speaker 1: But does that get you on the mountain? It does not.
Speaker 1: And that's today's episode of Daily Comedy News. See you tomorrow.