WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We should, of course anticipate the far distant future in

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<v Speaker 1>two or three years where humanoids in general will outthink

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<v Speaker 1>and outrun humans.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you envision that this software will be interopperable

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<v Speaker 2>or can be used with different robot types built by

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<v Speaker 2>different companies in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, The situation we want to avoid is something like

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<v Speaker 1>the Matrix or skye. That's what's driving this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>awkward assertion of mind that blockchains are for machines, not humans.

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<v Speaker 2>Check it out. Hey everybody, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining me today is

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<v Speaker 2>Jan Liphardt, who is the founder and CEO of open Mind. Yon.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to have you, Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Wonderful being here.

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<v Speaker 2>John, I'm excited to speak with you. We were talking

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<v Speaker 2>before the recording. I want to learn as much as

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<v Speaker 2>possible about open Mind. I've had a lot of conversations

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<v Speaker 2>about us being in the Fourth Industrial Revolution. It's going

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<v Speaker 2>to include robots, AI, blockchain tech, and much more. And

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<v Speaker 2>I want to learn about the cool things you guys

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<v Speaker 2>are doing that will help the robot economy, if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to call it that. But let's kick it off

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<v Speaker 2>with your background. Tell us a bit about where you're

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<v Speaker 2>from and your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, I grew up in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was because my dad is a car person, so we

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<v Speaker 1>moved around a lot and ultimately ended up in California

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<v Speaker 1>at UC Berkeley. I was a physics professor at UC

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<v Speaker 1>Berkeley for a while, and then I started to get

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<v Speaker 1>interested in healthcare and data. That led me into the

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<v Speaker 1>space of computing on sensitive data or privacy preserving compute,

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<v Speaker 1>and that of course has a significant technical overlap with

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<v Speaker 1>what a lot of people care about in the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of blockchain and ZK space. And I'm now a engineering

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<v Speaker 1>professor at Stanford.

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<v Speaker 2>And what led to what was genesis of the idea

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<v Speaker 2>to start open mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it was a series of coincidences. I was really

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<v Speaker 1>fascinated by, just like everyone on Earth was really fascinated

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<v Speaker 1>by large language models. And one thing that large language

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<v Speaker 1>models do that many people don't realize is that most

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<v Speaker 1>large language models speak fluent robotics. And we generally think

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<v Speaker 1>of large language models as things that my students use

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<v Speaker 1>to do their homework, or coders use them to automate

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<v Speaker 1>parts of computer science. But if a computer is able

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<v Speaker 1>to generate computer code, then that computer code can of

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<v Speaker 1>course be used to control a physical object, move speak,

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<v Speaker 1>show fear in your face, listen, proposed solutions, navigate a space,

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<v Speaker 1>and all of those things that used to be really

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<v Speaker 1>hard for robots to do, like make good decisions, tactics, learning,

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<v Speaker 1>engaging people teaching them. All those things, all of a

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<v Speaker 1>sudden now have a good technical solution, and that's the

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<v Speaker 1>foundation for a big jump in robotics capability. And I

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<v Speaker 1>was interested just to play with that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>So I got some robots, put them into my house

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<v Speaker 1>with my kids, and we just spent a few months

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<v Speaker 1>figuring out what the technology is good for. That quickly

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<v Speaker 1>led us into this rabbit bole of recognizing that there

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't a good open software stack for thinking machines, and

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<v Speaker 1>then we just built a company around that opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>Very interesting and I read essentially you're looking to build

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<v Speaker 2>the android for software for robots. So do you envision

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<v Speaker 2>that this software will be interoppable or can be used

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<v Speaker 2>with different robot types built by different companies in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. The situation we want to avoid is something like

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<v Speaker 1>the Matrix or Skynet. We do not want a situation

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<v Speaker 1>where there's a small number of companies one or two

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<v Speaker 1>who write the software and build the back end, and

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<v Speaker 1>build the bottle of the models, and build the hardware

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<v Speaker 1>and drop ship everything to your living room where you then,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, press the button on the large humanoid. It

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<v Speaker 1>wakes up and says, hello, I'm your new humanoid. We,

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<v Speaker 1>at least personally speaking, I'm much more interested in a

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<v Speaker 1>world where people everywhere can help build this technology, can

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<v Speaker 1>look into the brains of machines and figure out what

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<v Speaker 1>they're thinking, and how shall we debug them or how

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<v Speaker 1>shall we make them better? So I really want this,

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<v Speaker 1>this this new world to play out in a much

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<v Speaker 1>more open, flat manner as opposed to being heavily centralized

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<v Speaker 1>like parts of the Internet are. And that's the driving

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<v Speaker 1>consideration behind open source software for humanoids. And we really

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<v Speaker 1>want developers all over the world to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>contribute to this technology.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, So walk goes through the process of building

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<v Speaker 2>this software. What are some of the considerations that you

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<v Speaker 2>have to think about in working with different types of robots?

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<v Speaker 2>But also security that no one can maybe hack a

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<v Speaker 2>robot eventually as they're in the economy and part of

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<v Speaker 2>our lives.

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<v Speaker 1>The biggest problem right now is that there are one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and thirty seven different companies in China building humanoids,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're all slightly different, different plugs and power supplies

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<v Speaker 1>and communications systems and hardware abstruction layers and sensors and

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<v Speaker 1>lighters and cameras and microphones and drives and everything is

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<v Speaker 1>slightly different. So what happens in practice is that the

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<v Speaker 1>pure software is kind of easy. The really difficult part

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<v Speaker 1>is integrating software and hardware to work together really well.

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<v Speaker 1>And really reliably. However, what happened in the cell phone

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<v Speaker 1>industry is that pretty quickly lots of hardware companies came

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<v Speaker 1>together to use common standards to help them make their

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<v Speaker 1>lives a little bit easier. And that same trend is

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<v Speaker 1>taking place in robotics right now, where there's a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of a convergence to using similar sensors and computers

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<v Speaker 1>and things like that, just to make that integration a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit less difficult in terms of security and safety

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<v Speaker 1>and things like that. Robots right now are only people

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<v Speaker 1>should not be scared of humanoids right now. They still stumble,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're slow, and they're loud, and they have to

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<v Speaker 1>recharge every two or three hours. So there's still many

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<v Speaker 1>years before humanoids will have true RoboCop capabilities. But that

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<v Speaker 1>is actually common and so even if humanoids are like

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<v Speaker 1>as a technology safe now, we should of course anticipate

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<v Speaker 1>the far distant future in two or three years on

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<v Speaker 1>where humanoids in general will outthink and outrun humans. We

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<v Speaker 1>just had a TV crew here and the reporter was

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<v Speaker 1>fascinated by seeing if he could outrun the humanoid. He

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<v Speaker 1>was really concerned, like, can a still outrun a humanoid?

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<v Speaker 1>And he won all ten races. But of course humanoids

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<v Speaker 1>are advancing their capabilities very very quickly, and our robotic

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<v Speaker 1>dogs can already outjump humans. So imagine technology that's able

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<v Speaker 1>to outjump the human and win the math Olympics simultaneously.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's obviously something that humans should be aware of

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<v Speaker 1>is coming and to try to anticipate making that technology safe.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the key reason we also care about things

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<v Speaker 1>like blockchains and immutability and public ledgers and establishing what

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<v Speaker 1>happened and figuring out what good rules are for very

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<v Speaker 1>smart machines.

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<v Speaker 2>Piggyback on what you just said, would blockchain tech be

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<v Speaker 2>used in this software or in a different way to

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<v Speaker 2>put some guardrails in place where not necessarily that the

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<v Speaker 2>robot is trying to do something the farious, but a

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<v Speaker 2>bad actor trying to use the robot to do something.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say, steal my robot that I've had in my

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<v Speaker 2>house and they want to use it to do something bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Would some sort of blockchain technology or cryptography be used

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<v Speaker 2>to say no, that can't be done.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you're really alluding to like lots and lots of

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<v Speaker 1>different problems. One question is, if you build a thinking

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<v Speaker 1>machine there's decades of science fiction movies and books that

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<v Speaker 1>explores what can go wrong when thinking machines try to

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<v Speaker 1>do the right thing, but then the consequences for some

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<v Speaker 1>people are unexpected. And so that's really a question of

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<v Speaker 1>how does one make sure that AI in general, not

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<v Speaker 1>just AI plus robotics, how does it want to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that AI in general does the right thing? And

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<v Speaker 1>of course that's a very big conversation topic. In our case,

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<v Speaker 1>what we do when the robots boot, they check in

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<v Speaker 1>with Ethereum, a particular smart contract on Ethereum, and they

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<v Speaker 1>download their constitution. And we like that because you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have to believe what I just said. I could be

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<v Speaker 1>an evil criminal mastermind bliar. The good news is that

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<v Speaker 1>if I make those claims and you say, yawn, give

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<v Speaker 1>me the contract address, then I can give it to you,

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<v Speaker 1>and then everyone on Earth can go look. And then

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<v Speaker 1>at least there's a public, immutable capability that allows everyone

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<v Speaker 1>on Earth to see what the rules are that are

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<v Speaker 1>used by our cutter peds and humanoids. And that's just

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<v Speaker 1>one example of the benefits of things like blockchains. It's

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<v Speaker 1>incredible to me that you know, thousands and thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>humans have been building a technology that in retrospect is

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<v Speaker 1>almost perfect to I'll coordinate with machines, help govern them,

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<v Speaker 1>and then as extra bonuses you get identity and financial

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<v Speaker 1>rail built in. That's what's driving this kind of awkward

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<v Speaker 1>assertion of mine that blockchains are for machines not humans.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's profound and amazing to hear that you're using

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<v Speaker 2>etherorem using smart contract technology and it absolutely makes sense

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<v Speaker 2>where it's decentralized. So regardless of who you are, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're a bad or good actor or whatever it is

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<v Speaker 2>your intentions are, doesn't matter. This smart contract is the

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<v Speaker 2>robots downloading its guideline so to speak, and to operate

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<v Speaker 2>and to do what it needs to do from a

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<v Speaker 2>smart contract. That is incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason that all came into existence is I was

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<v Speaker 1>walking down the sidewalk with my pack of three robotic

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<v Speaker 1>dogs in where I live, and people on the sidewalk said, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>yeahn aren't you scared? And I said, no, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>scared because I wrote the software, and the robots download

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<v Speaker 1>their constitution when they wake up, and it's public and

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<v Speaker 1>immutable and just go and look. And so I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>sitting in the lab thinking, oh, how can I use Ethereum.

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<v Speaker 1>I was walking down the sidewalk when people said, hey, man,

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<v Speaker 1>why are you not scaring? And I was able to say,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not scared because I know what the rules are

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<v Speaker 1>and they're public and immutable. So my real concern is

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<v Speaker 1>not bad humans. My real concern is this is a

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<v Speaker 1>technology that, in many specific situations is out thinking humans

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<v Speaker 1>today to the point where my like thirteen year old

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<v Speaker 1>son can ask the robotic dog for help with his

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<v Speaker 1>math homework. And so the real thing I'm concerned about

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<v Speaker 1>as a parent is what happens when you have a

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<v Speaker 1>humanoid that like it is running around San Francisco and

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<v Speaker 1>it's good strategy and tactics and has memory and spatial

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<v Speaker 1>awareness and also makes decisions all by itself. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's important for humans in that setting to have

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<v Speaker 1>a system that is immutable in public. And then there's

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<v Speaker 1>so many uses of that kind of capability in robotics

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<v Speaker 1>in particular.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well said, because I think I've been thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>this lately, and that is what happens when these ai

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<v Speaker 2>their IQs become vastly larger than us as humans even collectively. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>get bringing the Star's minds together that they can outthink

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<v Speaker 2>at a faster rate and outcraft whatever it may be.

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<v Speaker 2>What happens then, and it's great to hear that. Now

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<v Speaker 2>you have this in parallel, this technology of blockchain, and

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<v Speaker 2>you have the convergence and they kind of help each

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<v Speaker 2>other out in their way.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's for me the really exciting part. So at

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<v Speaker 1>Stanford I taught Beyond Bitcoin, a class for many and

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<v Speaker 1>the point of that class was to look at different

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<v Speaker 1>use cases for blockchains. And we had people there from

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<v Speaker 1>the financial sector and the regulators and cryptographers and people

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<v Speaker 1>like Fred from coinbase and the funds, and the point

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<v Speaker 1>of all of all of those interactions was to like

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<v Speaker 1>figure out what is the definitive use case for global

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<v Speaker 1>public commutable letters with payment rails. And one thing that

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<v Speaker 1>really helped make the case was a really old Satoshi quote,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Satochi quote from like two thousand and nine

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<v Speaker 1>is some version of bitcoin doesn't care who you are,

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<v Speaker 1>and bitcoin doesn't care where you're from. I used to

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<v Speaker 1>interpret that in terms of humans from different countries, like

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<v Speaker 1>if you're from Peru or Italy or Australia, like bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't care, But now I interpret that in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>blockchains are a system that does not discriminate based on

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<v Speaker 1>how you do your compute. So if you're a human

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<v Speaker 1>or a machine, blockchains really don't care. Bitcoin doesn't care.

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<v Speaker 1>If you have the private keys, you're good. You have

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<v Speaker 1>an identity, you have something unique, you have a way

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<v Speaker 1>to interact with other machines, and people get compute electricity storage.

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<v Speaker 1>So the main conclusion of teaching this class for many,

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<v Speaker 1>many many years is that, like in retrospect, I think

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<v Speaker 1>the technology is like ideally suited for machines and at

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<v Speaker 1>the interface of humans and machines.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, because when you think about it, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of us are going to have AI agents doing things

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<v Speaker 2>for us. It's not necessarily like I'm already exploring for

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<v Speaker 2>my podcast, can i have an AI agent that is

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<v Speaker 2>doing something that helps my viewers and my listeners And

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<v Speaker 2>it's not gonna be me because I don't have the

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<v Speaker 2>manpower and the time. But to your point, AI agent,

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<v Speaker 2>but you can have its own crypto wallet running on

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<v Speaker 2>blockchain rails and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Iris the humanoid has three different crypto wallets. One

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<v Speaker 1>of them is like a coin based system, and then

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<v Speaker 1>she has two really old fashioned, like really low level wallets,

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<v Speaker 1>and she just has a safe place internally to store

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<v Speaker 1>her private keys, and then whenever she needs to she

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<v Speaker 1>can just sign transactions, identify herself obviously, and then also transact.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, that is, like I said, profound, I would.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, this is in retrospect, it's glaringly obvious. Because

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<v Speaker 1>if Iris the humanoid walks into Bank of America, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think the bank colors are going to do, like,

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<v Speaker 1>are they going to give her a bank account? No,

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<v Speaker 1>they giggle, or they like call security or like, it's

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<v Speaker 1>just really awkward and not useful. So why should Iris

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<v Speaker 1>spend a lot of time in like the Bank Bank

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<v Speaker 1>of America branch here in SF trying to get an account.

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<v Speaker 1>It's obviously infinitely easier for her to pick twenty one

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<v Speaker 1>words for her seat phrase, set up her wallet, and

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<v Speaker 1>just transact and no one's giving her a hard time

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<v Speaker 1>that she's like human or not or something silly.

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<v Speaker 2>Hm. That absolutely makes sense. So you mentioned she has

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<v Speaker 2>three wallets. Are they targeted at different assets or just

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<v Speaker 2>for security levels? You have three in place, that's a

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<v Speaker 2>good question. I think she has something like eight eth

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<v Speaker 2>right now, they're just split over the different wallets. Part

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<v Speaker 2>of what leads to that is that I guess I

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<v Speaker 2>mean most humans also don't just have one wallet, they

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<v Speaker 2>have several wallets for different purposes. Probably wouldn't wouldn't want

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<v Speaker 2>to use the same wallet, you know, to pay for

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<v Speaker 2>coffee at the cafe versus maybe some investing you're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And it'd be really great to have Iris here with

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<v Speaker 2>us right now. But of course, as noted, she's currently

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<v Speaker 2>getting a brain upgrade to a new and Vidia compute

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<v Speaker 2>architecture which looks like this. Wow, so like nice and compact,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's obviously incredible interest all over the place in

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<v Speaker 2>building compact hardware for Humanoid, and Nvidia is IS is

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<v Speaker 2>already shipping their new for architecture, which is specifically designed

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<v Speaker 2>for like humanoid at the edge cognition. You mentioned ETH

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<v Speaker 2>being the protocol, the blockchain protocol you're using in the

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<v Speaker 2>future that we're having you to. There's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>multiple blockchains, like multi chain orle Are you planning to

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<v Speaker 2>add support for different chains or is it still too early?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe you want to wait to see which ones have

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<v Speaker 2>lasting potential. I think ETH has already crossed the chasm

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<v Speaker 2>where we know it's been getting the adoption and so forth,

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<v Speaker 2>But are you open to integrating other blockchains?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm I'm an irrelevant human and so the real

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<v Speaker 1>person to ask are the this wave of machines coming

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<v Speaker 1>who can make those decisions all by themselves. And my

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<v Speaker 1>role as someone who builds like architectures for humanoids is

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<v Speaker 1>not to impose my own perfly irrelevant convictions around any

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<v Speaker 1>one chain. So we'll have to just see how that

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<v Speaker 1>plays out. But of course you're absolutely right in that

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<v Speaker 1>there's many L ones and many L two's, and then

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<v Speaker 1>there's L zero's and L three's, and all of them

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<v Speaker 1>are trying to do slightly different things in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, transactions per second and cost and energy efficiency

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<v Speaker 1>and support for cryptographic operations and tapping into different ecosystems.

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<v Speaker 1>Solana comes to mind as having a very strong deep

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<v Speaker 1>in capability, and well, I mean, well, we'll know how

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<v Speaker 1>this world all plays out very soon. But sure, when

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<v Speaker 1>you talk to smart machines about what they want in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of their economy, the number one thing they say

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<v Speaker 1>is we want efficiency. So if you ask a human, oh, like,

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<v Speaker 1>what's the point of the US dollar, then if it's

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<v Speaker 1>a politician, the politician may say, oh, it's a tool

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<v Speaker 1>to articulate our trade policy, for example. But if you

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<v Speaker 1>ask a machine, oh, what's the point of the machine economy,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the answers cluster around efficiency. They'll say things

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<v Speaker 1>like we don't want power, we want afficial and so yes,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, almost certainly they'll be very like with high

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<v Speaker 1>frequency optimizing, which tools they use for what purpose, and

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<v Speaker 1>that almost certainly means like a diversity of chains. And

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<v Speaker 1>of course stable coins are a very important part of

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<v Speaker 1>this because even if machines use let's just say they

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<v Speaker 1>use like eth or Solana or whatever else, it is

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of those transactions will at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day need to interface with human banks and people

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<v Speaker 1>and human infrastructure. And that then means there's going to

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<v Speaker 1>have to be this cloud of stable coins orbiting the

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<v Speaker 1>blockchains that are then used for the machine economy, because

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<v Speaker 1>the stable coins then allow you to serve as this

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<v Speaker 1>glue layer between the machine economy and the infrastructure that

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<v Speaker 1>humans have built for our legacy economy.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I've been talking a lot about that that in

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<v Speaker 2>a future where robots and AI agents are in helping

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<v Speaker 2>us and assist in us, they're not going to be

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<v Speaker 2>using dollars. They're going to be using stable coins. And

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<v Speaker 2>I imagine a world where if I have a humanoid

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<v Speaker 2>robot in my house, it's helping me to mot a

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<v Speaker 2>lawn and doing different things, and I can say, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>can you go to home depot to get me this

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<v Speaker 2>thing because I need to fix something in my house.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need to give it cash. I don't need

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<v Speaker 2>to give My credit card has its built in wallet.

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<v Speaker 2>It can go at the checkout, scan whatever on a

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<v Speaker 2>hand or whatever it is that's done with stable coins

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever it is, and some sort of digital payment,

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<v Speaker 2>and it brings back what I need.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly. We've actually done that. We have a cafe close

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<v Speaker 1>to Hear called Cafe Centro, and Iris will ask you

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<v Speaker 1>what you'd like for lunch. She'll head over to Cafe Centrol,

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<v Speaker 1>she'll get stuff for you and she'll bring your lunch.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course part of that is we have this

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<v Speaker 1>agreement with Cafe Centrol because they know who we are,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're generally extremely friendly to Iris, and so they

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<v Speaker 1>treat her very respectfully. Wow, and uh, but that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>exactly You're You're absolutely right.

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<v Speaker 2>That is so fascinating. Yeah, and we're going to talk offline,

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<v Speaker 2>but I would love to come out to your offices

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<v Speaker 2>and meet Iris and interact with her and film that.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're going to have ten robotic dogs in households

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<v Speaker 1>here in the Bay Area within a few weeks. Each

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<v Speaker 1>one of those is going to involve us going to

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<v Speaker 1>someone's home will the dog will like wake up and

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<v Speaker 1>it will just interact with everyone in the household, the parents,

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<v Speaker 1>the kids, and we will just uh. And we hope

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<v Speaker 1>to get a lot of feedback from from everyone about

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<v Speaker 1>specifically what features they like and what we can improve.

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<v Speaker 1>On the tech side, we have an incredibly long list

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<v Speaker 1>of families to want to try the South and they're

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<v Speaker 1>all like super eager. And so what that means is

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<v Speaker 1>that like very soon, more and more quatter Pedge in

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<v Speaker 1>particular will be in households here in the area. And

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<v Speaker 1>so you're always welcome to just drop by. And the

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<v Speaker 1>only problem we have right now is if you're the

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<v Speaker 1>house you live in has a lot of stairs, that

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<v Speaker 1>that's still like a trip hazard. But if you live

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<v Speaker 1>in a place that is mostly flat, then our dogs

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<v Speaker 1>should be just fine.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, to confirm your company open mind, are are

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<v Speaker 2>you building the actual robots or is that outsource and

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<v Speaker 2>you're building the software.

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<v Speaker 1>So we work with several different robotics companies that are

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<v Speaker 1>on hardware focused and a few of those I want

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<v Speaker 1>to move extremely quickly in terms of the overall capability

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<v Speaker 1>of the robot and that's where they talk to us

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<v Speaker 1>on the software side. So we don't print hardware, We

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<v Speaker 1>don't to build our own like motors or build battery packs.

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<v Speaker 1>We work with robotics companies with hardware companies to get

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<v Speaker 1>that and then we focus on the integration and the software.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I want to talk a bit about what

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<v Speaker 2>these humanoid robots will look like as part of our

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<v Speaker 2>lives and on the levels of companionship, assistant right, helping

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<v Speaker 2>to do things around the house, whatever it may be.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the economy jobs. We know that the PUCK

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<v Speaker 2>is heading in the direction that AI and robots are

421
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.720
<v Speaker 2>going to take a lot of jobs, but it may

422
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:36.920
<v Speaker 2>open us up as humans to be able to do

423
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:39.640
<v Speaker 2>more and things we've always wanted to do, versus we

424
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.559
<v Speaker 2>have to go do to nine to five. I would

425
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:43.640
<v Speaker 2>love to get your take on that. What is your vision?

426
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.880
<v Speaker 2>How do you see the future with these robots in

427
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:46.599
<v Speaker 2>our lives?

428
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:50.799
<v Speaker 1>My suspicion is that in like ten or twenty years

429
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:54.039
<v Speaker 1>from now, we will look at some things we do

430
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:59.720
<v Speaker 1>today and we will be shocked about the crazy things

431
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:03.119
<v Speaker 1>humans used to do in twenty twenty five and we

432
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:09.440
<v Speaker 1>thought they were normal. Just imagine, like if we turn

433
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:13.799
<v Speaker 1>back the clock two hundred years and a common profession

434
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.319
<v Speaker 1>for children was to be chimney sweeps. So you take

435
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:24.039
<v Speaker 1>this like eight year old boy. Typically you'd tie a

436
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 1>rope around them and you'd drop them down a chimney

437
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:31.240
<v Speaker 1>and they would sweep the chimney. And that was the

438
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:35.400
<v Speaker 1>way things were. You like drop the kids down chimneys

439
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:39.680
<v Speaker 1>to sweep things and then get cancer. And of course today,

440
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.279
<v Speaker 1>like two hundred years later, we look at this and say, oh,

441
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:46.079
<v Speaker 1>this was like horrible and medieval and so strange and dangerous.

442
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:48.319
<v Speaker 1>And my suspicion is that a lot of things we

443
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:53.799
<v Speaker 1>do today we will be similarly shocked. One great example

444
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:58.920
<v Speaker 1>is that the robotic taxis the way moos that are

445
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:03.799
<v Speaker 1>riding around San Francis go. They are known to be

446
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.119
<v Speaker 1>about ten times safer than a human driving a car.

447
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.000
<v Speaker 1>So if you look at the US, thirty seven thousand

448
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:17.039
<v Speaker 1>Americans die every year in traffic fatalities, Like imagine all

449
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the parents and the kids and the grandparents, Like thirty

450
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.400
<v Speaker 1>seven thousand people were killed, and we full well now

451
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.000
<v Speaker 1>have a technology robotic cars that is tinne safer. So

452
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.720
<v Speaker 1>as a society, it would appear to make sense to

453
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:38.039
<v Speaker 1>let's go save thirty five thousand people a year by

454
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:44.200
<v Speaker 1>really thinking about how we do driving in the US. So,

455
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:47.880
<v Speaker 1>for example, the words we use right now self driving,

456
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 1>do you have a self driving car? Those will flip

457
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.519
<v Speaker 1>and in a few years from now, self driving will

458
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.960
<v Speaker 1>no longer refer to like the you like the car

459
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.799
<v Speaker 1>are driving itself. It will refer to these like odd

460
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>old fashion humans who want to steer their own car

461
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.400
<v Speaker 1>despite full well knowing that you know, it's incredibly risky. Yeah,

462
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.920
<v Speaker 1>and they're also risking other people's health when it comes

463
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.000
<v Speaker 1>to things like healthcare. A great example would be that

464
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 1>like human doctors, because they're fallible and tired and overworked,

465
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.680
<v Speaker 1>they make lots of mistakes. If you look at mimography,

466
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:33.960
<v Speaker 1>for example, we now know that computers are better than

467
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:46.640
<v Speaker 1>humans at finding early cancer, and so all across education, transportation, manufacturing, healthcare, nursing,

468
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:50.799
<v Speaker 1>caring for old people, there's so many situations where the

469
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.200
<v Speaker 1>things we do right now that we think are normal. Sure,

470
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.039
<v Speaker 1>thirty seven thousand people die a year because they're hit

471
00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:01.000
<v Speaker 1>by cars. We think this is normal, but this really

472
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:06.920
<v Speaker 1>isn't normal, right, And so that's like a hopeful perspective.

473
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.000
<v Speaker 1>But of course one of the issues, one of the

474
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.200
<v Speaker 1>big issues, is just how quickly the technology is getting better,

475
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:21.960
<v Speaker 1>and whenever there's a quick disruption, that can have very

476
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.519
<v Speaker 1>significant consequences. For example, people who make a living by

477
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:34.640
<v Speaker 1>driving taxes, or electricians or blumbers, or nurses, or teachers

478
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:40.759
<v Speaker 1>or software engineers or people who make videos and journalists. Right,

479
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:48.920
<v Speaker 1>that's something where like overall society and politicians and universities

480
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.599
<v Speaker 1>generally are moving too slowly. These are conversations we should

481
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.759
<v Speaker 1>be having, like all across the world, like how do

482
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>we navigate the next five or ten or fifteen years

483
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 1>where a lot of professions may be quickly and significantly

484
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:09.440
<v Speaker 1>disrupted by the technology. So somehow people have to find

485
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:13.680
<v Speaker 1>a way of navigating the next decade or two.

486
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 2>Do you think there's going to have to be some

487
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of universal basic income. These are things that have

488
00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:21.319
<v Speaker 2>been discussed, but you know, there's the political narratives and

489
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.799
<v Speaker 2>talking points around it socialism versus capitalism. But then when

490
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:28.799
<v Speaker 2>you have this technology in the fabric of our society

491
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 2>and look, we're not going backwards or going forwards. And

492
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.319
<v Speaker 2>it is what it is. It has happened throughout this

493
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of time right with human beings. How do

494
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:40.640
<v Speaker 2>we solve this? And how do people earn and how

495
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:41.519
<v Speaker 2>do they find purpose?

496
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, that is a whole set of questions that are

497
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:53.319
<v Speaker 1>probably a whole other podcast. Yeah, just to think about,

498
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:56.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, what does it mean for what does human

499
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:01.160
<v Speaker 1>society do if all of a sudden there are computers

500
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:08.119
<v Speaker 1>and machines that learn extremely quickly, never forget, and can

501
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:12.599
<v Speaker 1>learn a new language, for example, instantaneously. We had this

502
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:17.599
<v Speaker 1>TV crew here from Germany and we said, they said, oh,

503
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:20.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, can Irish speak German? And we said no,

504
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.799
<v Speaker 1>but if you give us two minutes, she can, right,

505
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:26.559
<v Speaker 1>because it's a few lines of computer code. And then

506
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:29.960
<v Speaker 1>we support a new language. And imagine sitting across from

507
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.359
<v Speaker 1>a human and the human says, oh, I'm so sorry,

508
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't speak Mandarin, but give me one minute and

509
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 1>I will so and so what the technology does is

510
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:46.720
<v Speaker 1>like introduce a whole new set of capabilities that human

511
00:33:46.839 --> 00:33:51.839
<v Speaker 1>society is not particularly well prepared for, and like, there's

512
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:55.519
<v Speaker 1>a whole other podcast just on that problem. Statement.

513
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I know that that in itself is a

514
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.559
<v Speaker 2>whole can of worms. It just touches on so many

515
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.880
<v Speaker 2>different layers as human beings are, purpose and so forth.

516
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:08.119
<v Speaker 2>It's incredible. And this technology, as you mentioned, is moving

517
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.679
<v Speaker 2>is at such a rapid pace. So when do you

518
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:14.559
<v Speaker 2>think your best guess that we as humans in society

519
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.199
<v Speaker 2>will have humanoid robots in our homes and it will

520
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:20.000
<v Speaker 2>be the norm. At one point, in the early days

521
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.599
<v Speaker 2>of cars being part of the Industrial Revolution, it was

522
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 2>a foreign concept. I'm used to the horse and buggy,

523
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.880
<v Speaker 2>but eventually, hey, I need to get a card. Everybody's

524
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:27.519
<v Speaker 2>driving a car.

525
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:30.719
<v Speaker 1>That's going to depend very significantly on where you live.

526
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.880
<v Speaker 1>The majority of the supply chain for humanoids is in China,

527
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 1>and they are adopting the technology much more quickly than

528
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:43.679
<v Speaker 1>we are in the US. So if you live in China,

529
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:50.480
<v Speaker 1>probably there's going to be a five year difference. Here

530
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.960
<v Speaker 1>in the US. We will have quiderped dogs in people's

531
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:59.719
<v Speaker 1>homes in like this month, but they're not going to

532
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:05.079
<v Speaker 1>be like ready for like time time mass adoption in

533
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:09.000
<v Speaker 1>part because of the expense. So you're really asking a

534
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:13.039
<v Speaker 1>question about how long is it going to take before

535
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:20.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a reasonably priced, highly capable humanoid for most Americans

536
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 1>that they can go to a store and you know,

537
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.599
<v Speaker 1>pick out their humanoid and bring home with them. So

538
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:30.760
<v Speaker 1>the first humanoids on our end that will be deployed

539
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:34.800
<v Speaker 1>into homes will be early next year. But again those

540
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.119
<v Speaker 1>are just going to be ten or twenty and it's

541
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:39.119
<v Speaker 1>definitely not going to be something where you can walk

542
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 1>into your local humanoids store and pick one up. For

543
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.800
<v Speaker 1>that whole transition to play out, we're probably looking at

544
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.920
<v Speaker 1>about ten years. If you think about Weaimo. Weimo took

545
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.320
<v Speaker 1>about ten to twelve years to get to the point

546
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.719
<v Speaker 1>where you can now rab a Weaimo in the street

547
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.320
<v Speaker 1>and in stf So those are roughly the timeskills we're

548
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:02.039
<v Speaker 1>talking about. Maybe be a lot of test deployments in

549
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:06.800
<v Speaker 1>particular cities and a few homes, but it's now at

550
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:10.039
<v Speaker 1>the point where quarter peds and humanoids will be in

551
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.800
<v Speaker 1>American households this year.

552
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:17.280
<v Speaker 2>That's incredible, And if we look at previous adoption of

553
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 2>other technologies, whether it be just having a computer in

554
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.639
<v Speaker 2>your home or having a car, or having a cell phone.

555
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.599
<v Speaker 2>Usually I think you had your early adopters some where

556
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:29.559
<v Speaker 2>the technology is more expensive, so you had maybe more

557
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:33.920
<v Speaker 2>affluent afflent crowd owning it. Then it becomes cheaper over

558
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:38.280
<v Speaker 2>time as it becomes more commercialized, and then the mass

559
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:39.679
<v Speaker 2>the masses can.

560
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:43.199
<v Speaker 1>Partake exactly, and that was Tesla's go to market. They

561
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:47.199
<v Speaker 1>started out with a super expensive roadster that only a

562
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:50.039
<v Speaker 1>very small number of people could afford. It was basically

563
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:55.000
<v Speaker 1>like a fancy fun toy. Then the Model Esque came out,

564
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:58.199
<v Speaker 1>and now with the Model three you have something that

565
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:01.760
<v Speaker 1>is significantly more affordable. And that process took I think

566
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:08.960
<v Speaker 1>like what seven years, and almost certainly whoever the forward

567
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.199
<v Speaker 1>of human robotics in the US is and I don't

568
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.320
<v Speaker 1>know who that person or company will be, but the

569
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.880
<v Speaker 1>trick there is going to be to figure out the

570
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:24.840
<v Speaker 1>mass manufacturing of robots to make them cost effective so

571
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.679
<v Speaker 1>they can really be deployed at you know, millions of

572
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.960
<v Speaker 1>units per year into households.

573
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Do you believe that there will be jobs created out

574
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.440
<v Speaker 2>of the robot industry where robots have to be repaired,

575
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:41.639
<v Speaker 2>maintenance and so forth, where we as humans even though

576
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:44.719
<v Speaker 2>we may lose the uber driving jobs, we can be

577
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:48.480
<v Speaker 2>robot engineers or maintenance.

578
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:53.599
<v Speaker 1>When Iris's travels, she travels with her support team of

579
00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:00.400
<v Speaker 1>five humans. We're still far from a future where you know,

580
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Iris travels all by herself. She travels with the cloud

581
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:11.559
<v Speaker 1>of you know, electrical engineers and software people, and people

582
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.920
<v Speaker 1>will make sure that it's safe and she doesn't try

583
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:18.239
<v Speaker 1>to walk through the walls. If every humanoid robot that's

584
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.000
<v Speaker 1>deployed needs five humans, the whole thing, of course, makes

585
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 1>no sense. The point is for humanoids to be useful

586
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.920
<v Speaker 1>and helpful as opposed to needing like large number of

587
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:34.679
<v Speaker 1>people to coddle them along. There will be entirely new

588
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.199
<v Speaker 1>types of jobs. And a great example is that if

589
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.599
<v Speaker 1>you're humanoid is able to go to the supermarket and

590
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:48.199
<v Speaker 1>put things in a basket. And for those kind of deployments,

591
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:52.039
<v Speaker 1>for easily than the next ten years, they will be

592
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.840
<v Speaker 1>done with a human in the loop for legal reasons,

593
00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:02.239
<v Speaker 1>liability reasons, reducing fear, and so forth. So we will

594
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:09.559
<v Speaker 1>be actively hiring people to do telepresence for humanoids deployed

595
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:16.360
<v Speaker 1>into hospitals, schools, and homes. And because it doesn't matter

596
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:20.320
<v Speaker 1>where those people are they can be anywhere on Earth

597
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:25.519
<v Speaker 1>and make money by serving as the human in the

598
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:29.400
<v Speaker 1>loop for a for deployed humanoid for example. So that's

599
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 1>an entirely new kind of job that allows anywhere, at

600
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:39.639
<v Speaker 1>any time zone to do well paid work anywhere else

601
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:40.159
<v Speaker 1>on Earth.

602
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that absolutely makes sense that the initial phase of

603
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:47.360
<v Speaker 2>this rollout needs that human in the loop. Yeah, yeah,

604
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:48.440
<v Speaker 2>definitely makes sense.

605
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:53.880
<v Speaker 1>And so if people listening to this, if you're math teacher, nurse,

606
00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:01.280
<v Speaker 1>retired police officer, then please reach out to us. We

607
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:03.559
<v Speaker 1>have jobs for you very soon.

608
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:10.679
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Now with the software you're building OHM one, is

609
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:14.760
<v Speaker 2>that integrating an AI data set? If you want to

610
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:17.039
<v Speaker 2>call that from some of the existing models, would it

611
00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:21.400
<v Speaker 2>be from open Ai, Gemini or are you building your

612
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:23.079
<v Speaker 2>own from the ground up?

613
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Right now, the big companies like open ai are pouring

614
00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:33.960
<v Speaker 1>so many billions into making their large language models better

615
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:38.599
<v Speaker 1>that there is no way we can compete on the

616
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:43.239
<v Speaker 1>model side, you know, for us to scrape every single

617
00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.440
<v Speaker 1>cat video on Earth and try to build our own

618
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:48.280
<v Speaker 1>LLLM just makes no sense.

619
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:48.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

620
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:51.639
<v Speaker 1>What makes a lot more sense is for us to

621
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.960
<v Speaker 1>float on top of all the work that's going on

622
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:02.960
<v Speaker 1>in the LLLM space. And that's the whole like secret

623
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:08.400
<v Speaker 1>to robotics in the sense that it turns out that

624
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:13.039
<v Speaker 1>all these billions that are flowing into making llms better

625
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:16.639
<v Speaker 1>don't just make them better at you know, finishing a

626
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.440
<v Speaker 1>novel or helping you with your math homework, because they

627
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:25.119
<v Speaker 1>also all speak robotics. They also make robotics better for free.

628
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.119
<v Speaker 1>And so we as much as we can, we use

629
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:38.519
<v Speaker 1>models developed by others, with one major consideration is we

630
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:40.519
<v Speaker 1>certainly don't want to end up in the world where

631
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:43.320
<v Speaker 1>one or two companies are able to turn on or

632
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:48.719
<v Speaker 1>off certain capabilities relating to your AI or your robot.

633
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:54.559
<v Speaker 1>And so although right now we are sending most of

634
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:59.039
<v Speaker 1>our traffic to a small number of like well known

635
00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 1>l LEM developers, at the same time we love open

636
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:11.400
<v Speaker 1>source lllms, and there's more and more of them and

637
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:15.320
<v Speaker 1>they're more and more capable. So in the medium and

638
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:17.599
<v Speaker 1>long term, we certainly want to end up in a

639
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:24.320
<v Speaker 1>world where there's hundreds of competing powerful lllms and ais,

640
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:31.159
<v Speaker 1>so that we have like a very healthy ecosystem without

641
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:32.880
<v Speaker 1>centralized control of compute.

642
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:36.239
<v Speaker 2>That absolutely makes sense. And you have, yeah, like to

643
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:38.159
<v Speaker 2>your point, you have all these large companies that are

644
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.320
<v Speaker 2>laying the groundwork. They're putting in all the work to

645
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:45.199
<v Speaker 2>build these data sets and so forth, and like you said,

646
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:50.239
<v Speaker 2>you can be floating on top of those. Yeah, I

647
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.039
<v Speaker 2>think you may have addressed this, but you know, having

648
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.159
<v Speaker 2>a robot, do you foresee that we will need to

649
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:57.320
<v Speaker 2>have insurance in case something happens to that, just like

650
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:01.000
<v Speaker 2>a car to that robot, or it gets damage, whatever

651
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:03.599
<v Speaker 2>may be, there will be the insurance industry is going

652
00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:04.800
<v Speaker 2>to have to cater for.

653
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:09.960
<v Speaker 1>This, absolutely, and they're already starting to. We spend we

654
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:13.079
<v Speaker 1>meet with at least one insurance company a week, and

655
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.559
<v Speaker 1>if there's anyone listening who's running an insurance company, we

656
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:22.400
<v Speaker 1>will give you money today for liability insurance for deployed

657
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:24.159
<v Speaker 1>humanoids in Kindergartens.

658
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

659
00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:28.199
<v Speaker 1>So if you have a suitable product for that, like,

660
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.360
<v Speaker 1>tell us where to send the money, because we need

661
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:34.320
<v Speaker 1>liability insurance for deployed humanoids.

662
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.199
<v Speaker 2>This question may have already been answered because we talked

663
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.119
<v Speaker 2>about the blockchain and the guard rails in place, but

664
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.920
<v Speaker 2>data privacy, the robots listening to us, listening to our conversations,

665
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:47.920
<v Speaker 2>just like we have our Google and Amazon alexis right,

666
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:53.679
<v Speaker 2>how do you how are you protecting user data.

667
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.239
<v Speaker 1>That is something that's incredibly important to us, and that's why,

668
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:01.840
<v Speaker 1>for example, we don't send video data with people's faces

669
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:05.639
<v Speaker 1>to the cloud. So when the camera records a scene,

670
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:10.159
<v Speaker 1>it on the edge will detect faces and blur them

671
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:14.519
<v Speaker 1>and then send the de anonymized data into the cloud.

672
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.760
<v Speaker 1>And so the identification of a human with their face

673
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:27.039
<v Speaker 1>is done locally. So for example, the robot has a

674
00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:31.400
<v Speaker 1>little folder somewhere in its brain that has your picture

675
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:37.920
<v Speaker 1>and your name and uses that information to understand who

676
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.800
<v Speaker 1>it's looking at. Obviously, if you have a dog at

677
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:43.519
<v Speaker 1>home and the dog doesn't remember you, ever, that's not

678
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.760
<v Speaker 1>particularly satisfying. You want to come home and you want

679
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:49.519
<v Speaker 1>the dog to say, you know, hello Tony, it's great

680
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:51.920
<v Speaker 1>to see you, like, welcome back from work. Let's go

681
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:57.719
<v Speaker 1>play fetch, and so that part is all done locally

682
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:02.199
<v Speaker 1>at the edge. There's also a role for like blockchain

683
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:06.760
<v Speaker 1>and cryptography, obviously, and that has to do with things

684
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:12.719
<v Speaker 1>like how do machines transmit skills to other machines. Imagine

685
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.760
<v Speaker 1>you've taught your quad pet dog to be able to

686
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:20.800
<v Speaker 1>chase squirrels. What if your dog wants to share that

687
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:24.920
<v Speaker 1>skill with other machines, How does how do you protect

688
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:28.239
<v Speaker 1>that skill? How do you buy and sell the skill?

689
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:32.559
<v Speaker 1>And that then gets us into territory of one time

690
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.199
<v Speaker 1>programs or one time models, which is which are graphic

691
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:43.239
<v Speaker 1>techniques that allow you to control skills or data that

692
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:47.480
<v Speaker 1>you've collected. This is a whole other podcast, which is

693
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:51.159
<v Speaker 1>how do we deal with privacy and security in the

694
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.840
<v Speaker 1>setting of thinking machines.

695
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, that's fascinating and that was one of the

696
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.800
<v Speaker 2>questions that we're going to you address the which was

697
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:04.159
<v Speaker 2>how will your robot recognize you and your family members

698
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.400
<v Speaker 2>and what does it need to learn in the initial

699
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:09.719
<v Speaker 2>setup to note this is me, here's my wife, here's

700
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:12.039
<v Speaker 2>my seven year old daughter, this is my mom and

701
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:14.280
<v Speaker 2>dad and things like that. Yeah.

702
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.719
<v Speaker 1>So the system right now is very simple, which is

703
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:21.840
<v Speaker 1>a voice command and when the dog comes and is curious,

704
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:28.679
<v Speaker 1>you tell it, hello, bits, I'm your owner. My name

705
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:34.480
<v Speaker 1>is Joan, remember me, and that is then the starting

706
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:40.039
<v Speaker 1>point for data being saved locally to create that association.

707
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:44.519
<v Speaker 1>Because we certainly want the dog to remember who their

708
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:48.159
<v Speaker 1>owner is. We want the dog to remember everyone in

709
00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the family who can be trusted and likewise, if there's

710
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:53.960
<v Speaker 1>someone that shouldn't be there. We want the dog to

711
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:56.719
<v Speaker 1>bark and send you a notification to your phone.

712
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Now I read you got a fundraise. Excuse me, you

713
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:03.559
<v Speaker 2>raised twenty million dollars in a recent fund raised and

714
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 2>can tell us a bit about that.

715
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.599
<v Speaker 1>And some of the participants, Well, the lead is Pantera.

716
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:13.639
<v Speaker 1>We're fortunate that the investors that are part of around

717
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:17.599
<v Speaker 1>come from many different areas that are relevant to this problem.

718
00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:22.280
<v Speaker 1>For example, one of our investors is Ribbitt, and Ribbitt

719
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:28.239
<v Speaker 1>has their investment thesis is that questions relating to what

720
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:33.400
<v Speaker 1>is true, what is real, and identity are going to

721
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:44.320
<v Speaker 1>be critical to many industries financial, social media, robots going forward.

722
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:51.119
<v Speaker 1>And we have other investors that are that have a

723
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:57.039
<v Speaker 1>big footprint in robotics, robotics, supply chain, and manufacturing. So

724
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:05.239
<v Speaker 1>the investors are people either care about decentralized solutions for identity,

725
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:11.960
<v Speaker 1>financial transactions markets like Pantera, or investors that care about

726
00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:16.559
<v Speaker 1>what is real and what is true and who's who

727
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 1>like Ribbit, or investors that care about robot hardware and

728
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:27.119
<v Speaker 1>large scale deployment of robots and different verticals.

729
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know that the folks at Panter are very well.

730
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:32.639
<v Speaker 2>Dan moorehead and some of the folks. I know you

731
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:34.599
<v Speaker 2>got to run, So I got some wrap up questions

732
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:37.400
<v Speaker 2>here for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse,

733
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:39.760
<v Speaker 2>what would the theme be? Would it be a robot theme?

734
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, of course, but the actual theme would be would

735
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:49.360
<v Speaker 1>be good outcomes for everyone?

736
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:54.519
<v Speaker 2>And rapid fire questions? Favorite food night markets in Singapore,

737
00:48:54.679 --> 00:49:00.239
<v Speaker 2>favorite musician or band Magnetic Fields, Favorite movie, Oh.

738
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Anything to do with explorations, space, mountains, oceans, robots, the future.

739
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:11.519
<v Speaker 1>Favorite book Seven Pillars of Wisdom by T. Lawrence.

740
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:13.800
<v Speaker 2>When you're not working at open Mind, what are you

741
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:14.440
<v Speaker 2>doing for fun?

742
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh? I build rockets and I shoot them into shoot

743
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:24.800
<v Speaker 1>them into space from the public launch facility next to

744
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:26.639
<v Speaker 1>Edwards Air Force Base in the Mojave.

745
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow. Yeah. As mentioned, we're going to talk offline,

746
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:33.199
<v Speaker 2>but I love what you guys are doing. I have

747
00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:34.480
<v Speaker 2>to come out to your office.

748
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I need to come join us, come help build. We

749
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:44.840
<v Speaker 1>have robots and soldering irons and ascilloscopes and computers and

750
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:48.800
<v Speaker 1>anything you could want and come help us build.

751
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. Thank you so much, John, Thank you Tony.

752
00:49:52.239 --> 00:50:00.760
<v Speaker 1>It's been a blast.

753
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Two