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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for tuning in to another show in the next

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<v Speaker 1>Real family of film podcasts, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Want to skip those ads and get early access.

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<v Speaker 3>Become a member at true story dot fm, slash Joint,

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<v Speaker 3>and discover all the other great perks that come with it.

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<v Speaker 2>The film board gathers. The Gang of Thugs is here

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<v Speaker 2>to take on a movie currently in theaters in this month.

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<v Speaker 2>We're suiting up, grabbing the shield, and stepping into a

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<v Speaker 2>world where power is contested, legacies are tested, and the

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<v Speaker 2>fate of nations rests on the edge of a vibrandamatium blade.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Captain America, Brave New World. I've spent my whole

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<v Speaker 2>life trying to protect this country.

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<v Speaker 4>They see a weapon.

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<v Speaker 5>I see the future, and one.

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<v Speaker 4>That I will create.

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<v Speaker 5>I am here to help you, mister President.

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<v Speaker 4>I got to get our birds in the air.

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<v Speaker 2>Ready to fly now, Sir, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm Captain.

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<v Speaker 2>If you fight for a broken system, I'll show you

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<v Speaker 2>the world change.

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<v Speaker 7>Really change.

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<v Speaker 6>Have you been feeling like yourself?

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<v Speaker 2>Somebody gets If we don't stop it now, the world

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<v Speaker 2>will fall. Let go.

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<v Speaker 6>Super Soldiers, mutants, They're nothing compared to what I can

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<v Speaker 6>build with this.

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<v Speaker 4>You ask for me here, I am.

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<v Speaker 5>Your shield won't stop what's coming.

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<v Speaker 4>In Captain.

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<v Speaker 2>In Captain America, Brave New World, our man Sam isn't

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<v Speaker 2>just fighting enemies. He's fighting expectations, political agendas, the ghosts

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<v Speaker 2>of the past, and a deep desire to undo doping regulations.

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<v Speaker 2>A new world order is rising, but is it built

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<v Speaker 2>on justice or mind control? This week we're peeling back

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<v Speaker 2>the skull cap of the Leader, challenging the toxicity of

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<v Speaker 2>the die behind Red Hulk, and judging all the impossible

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<v Speaker 2>choices facing our new cap. And who better to explore legacy,

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<v Speaker 2>power and the cost of heroism than the panel we've

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<v Speaker 2>got today. Don't give him a buzz cut because you'll

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<v Speaker 2>see all those ridges.

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<v Speaker 5>It's just I should have taken this serum, howdy.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you make him really angry, he grows a mustache.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Tommy Mets, the third superhero reference, a man who

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<v Speaker 2>has recently given me reason to repeat, Thank god we

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<v Speaker 2>still have a Steve on our team. At least it's

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<v Speaker 2>Steve's sarmento.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm no Steve Rogers.

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<v Speaker 2>And if the government ever tried to control his mind,

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<v Speaker 2>they'd find movie quotes and snacks all from nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 2>four it's Mike Gravano from Movie of the Year and

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<v Speaker 2>The Superhero Show Show. Mike, Welcome, they come and read. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I get it. I get what we're supposed to do

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<v Speaker 2>is we're introduced. Yeah, there're bits, Mike. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>do our plugs early because I'm so excited that you're

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<v Speaker 2>finally here. Introduce yourself to the good people and tell

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<v Speaker 2>us where you're from. Hello, good people and folks.

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<v Speaker 7>As Pete mentioned, I am on The Superhero Show Show,

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<v Speaker 7>where every week we watch every single TV show based

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<v Speaker 7>on comic books and review them. When we started, there

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<v Speaker 7>were four so it was easy to do and we

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<v Speaker 7>were very young.

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<v Speaker 2>None of those things are true anymore.

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<v Speaker 7>And then Movie of the Year, where each season we

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<v Speaker 7>tackle a year, build a bracket and make them fight

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<v Speaker 7>to find the best movie of that year. We're just

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<v Speaker 7>wrapping up the best of twenty twenty four, which is

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<v Speaker 7>against all the formats I've just said. So we've been

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<v Speaker 7>going through music, TV conedy, TV drama, and finally films.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, Album of the Year, Series of the Year.

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<v Speaker 2>I listened to those. I have issues. I'll tell you

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<v Speaker 2>next time we're together. I can't wait. Anyhow, I'm very

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<v Speaker 2>excited to talk about this show, and I'd like to

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<v Speaker 2>open with a segment I call opening thoughts aka, what

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<v Speaker 2>does Tom need to know to be able to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about this movie?

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<v Speaker 4>I was lucky enough to be. I was just in

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<v Speaker 4>Minnesota last week with a friend of the show, Darnell Smith,

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<v Speaker 4>who is an avid marblehead, and he was able to

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<v Speaker 4>give me. So he's watched everything, most importantly Captain Shield

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<v Speaker 4>and Winterman or whatever, and so he was able to

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<v Speaker 4>give me the stuff that I needed to know because

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<v Speaker 4>filled with characters that I'd never seen nor heard of.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm going to be shocked if he knew some of

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<v Speaker 6>the things that he thought he needed to know.

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<v Speaker 5>But anyway, yeah, go forth.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the thing. This is a sequel to a

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<v Speaker 2>movie that's seventeen years old. Really. As global tensions rise

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<v Speaker 2>over another newly discovered metal with world altering potential, Sam Wilson,

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<v Speaker 2>now fully stepping into his role as Captain America, is

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<v Speaker 2>drawn into high stakes political and military conflict. Alongside his

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<v Speaker 2>new falcon Joaquin Torres, and unexpected diminutive allies, Wilson must

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<v Speaker 2>navigate the web of espionage mind control in seventeen years

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<v Speaker 2>past betrayals to prevent a dangerous conspiracy from spiraling out

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<v Speaker 2>of control. That's right, the fate of nations is hanging

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<v Speaker 2>in the balance, and now our Winged Captain America faces

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<v Speaker 2>his greatest test yet, when the challenge is not just

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<v Speaker 2>to strength but his belief in what it truly means

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<v Speaker 2>to be a hero. So much drama right there, there's

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<v Speaker 2>so much drama. Do you like how I didn't spoil

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<v Speaker 2>anything yet? This is where you turn off the show?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh if you haven't seen the movie and you care,

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<v Speaker 2>because now we're going to start spoiling it. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like we kind of need to talk about how Sam

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<v Speaker 2>Wilson shapes up as a cinematic Captain America, especially as

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<v Speaker 2>he makes the leap from Captain America and The Winter

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<v Speaker 2>Soldier the Disney Plus series. Is that a fair place

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<v Speaker 2>to start? Do we like articular hero at this point

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<v Speaker 2>in the story? And I'm gonna start with Tom because ugh,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't because I'm a sociopath and on

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<v Speaker 2>some level, sure, what did you think of Winged cap.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I hadn't seen any of the TV show, and

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<v Speaker 4>I haven't seen all of the films, and so I've

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<v Speaker 4>even't seen some of the films I mean, and so

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<v Speaker 4>this was my main first time seeing him. I felt

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<v Speaker 4>like in action that I can really remember, and I

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<v Speaker 4>thought in the beginning he was very charming, and I

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<v Speaker 4>thought he was neat. He was very cinematic, he was fun,

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<v Speaker 4>He looks the part. He's flipping around doing things. He

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<v Speaker 4>as a character and as a likability source liked the movie.

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<v Speaker 4>For me. I know we didn't do opening thoughts, but

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<v Speaker 4>I'm doubling this is my opening thought of I know

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<v Speaker 4>films are not filmed in chronological order. That would be insane,

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<v Speaker 4>but I feel like this movie secretly was. Because the

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<v Speaker 4>movie started off whip smart, clear eyed, exciting, and then

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<v Speaker 4>slowly got more and more tired and goofy as it went,

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<v Speaker 4>and more and more confused, and by the end, I

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<v Speaker 4>feel everyone just sort of was like, that's a rap.

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<v Speaker 4>I felt like his character unfortunately felt that same way

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<v Speaker 4>to me when I was like, wow, I'm in good hands,

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<v Speaker 4>and then as the script wasn't what I thought it

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<v Speaker 4>was and things changed. He is not able to lift

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<v Speaker 4>up an entire film by himself, nor should he be

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<v Speaker 4>in charge of doing that, But so did that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sort of answer man. Okay, so that I'll just say

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<v Speaker 2>that hurts my heart a little bit because the past

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<v Speaker 2>Cat movies, I felt like our Steve Rogers could hold

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<v Speaker 2>up the movie himself, right. And that's the problem that

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<v Speaker 2>I had walking out of this movie because I have

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<v Speaker 2>such great hopes and desires for Macki and for this

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<v Speaker 2>Sam Wilson. I want more than anything for them to

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<v Speaker 2>be successful. What is this? Who's the We've got JJ Mike.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys are comic guys, superhero guys. Look, we've even

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<v Speaker 2>got the shield on the wall. How does Sam Wilson

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<v Speaker 2>havelf There's so much? How does this live up to

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<v Speaker 2>live up to the legacy of Sam Wilson that we've

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<v Speaker 2>known from the books.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm a I'm a fan of Sam Wilson in general.

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<v Speaker 7>I think his take on Captain America has has been

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<v Speaker 7>very cool. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a cap guy.

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<v Speaker 7>That's CAP's my guy in all Shapes reforms and Sam

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<v Speaker 7>Wilson from going from like one of the extended characters

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<v Speaker 7>sidekicks to Captain his own right. Huge fan, big fan

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<v Speaker 7>of Anthony Mackie going back to eight Mile, he was

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<v Speaker 7>great as Clarence. He was the one good part of

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<v Speaker 7>the hurt Locker I find him very charming generally, and

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<v Speaker 7>him and so many people, not just him, felt like

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<v Speaker 7>they forgot how to act in this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think that's his fault.

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<v Speaker 7>I think tired Tom is such a good apt description

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<v Speaker 7>because you're allowed to do more than one or two

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<v Speaker 7>drafts of a script, and there's some dialogue that was

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<v Speaker 7>so basic and simple.

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<v Speaker 2>It really felt like they did not push beyond that.

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<v Speaker 2>And even yes, yes, it was like, uh, serious line here,

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<v Speaker 2>then quip and so. And I don't think.

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<v Speaker 7>I think Mackie when he has time to sit in

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<v Speaker 7>a tone, he can do it. But the whiplash of oh,

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<v Speaker 7>now we're talking about serious racial issues and now we're

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<v Speaker 7>gonna quip and what can to just quip it?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh No, nobody, nobody could do it. Nobody could handle that.

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<v Speaker 6>And I mean, I think that both you guys are

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<v Speaker 6>completely correct, And I think the interesting thing that I

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<v Speaker 6>would the thing that I would assert is that Captain

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<v Speaker 6>America as a vehicle for the Marvel Cinematic Universe is

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<v Speaker 6>not about Captain America at all. I think Sam Wilson

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<v Speaker 6>Anthony Mackie as CAP showing up in the TV series

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<v Speaker 6>really worked like the in the in Captain America in

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<v Speaker 6>the Winter Soldier, as he made the sort of evolution

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<v Speaker 6>to become cap By the end of that I believed it.

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<v Speaker 5>I was into it. I was all that things.

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<v Speaker 6>But if you look at what they've done since Winter

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<v Speaker 6>Soldier in the MCU, you get Civil War, which is

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<v Speaker 6>not a Captain America movie. It's just a Marvel movie.

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<v Speaker 6>And this movie, I would argue, is the same thing.

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<v Speaker 6>This is not really a Captain American movie.

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<v Speaker 4>Pete.

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<v Speaker 6>You alluded to it in your intro as well. This

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<v Speaker 6>is a sequel to The Incredible Hulk. This is This

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<v Speaker 6>really has very little to do with Captain America, So

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<v Speaker 6>I agree. I don't think Sam held up the story,

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<v Speaker 6>but I don't think that was his job here. I

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<v Speaker 6>think I think Anthony Mackett did a great job of

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<v Speaker 6>everything he was given here, and then they just played

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<v Speaker 6>out the Marvel things, which and.

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<v Speaker 5>Again we're not doing induistal thoughts, but for me, that

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<v Speaker 5>made this a really good movie.

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<v Speaker 6>This is me, I mean, please do I mean really

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<v Speaker 6>like I This is This is like right in the middle,

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<v Speaker 6>like a nice C plus B minus Marvel movie for me.

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<v Speaker 6>And I'm so happy that they answered many of the

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<v Speaker 6>criticisms that have been happening ever since Endgame with connective tissue.

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<v Speaker 6>In this film, it's a great Marvel lore movie, not

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<v Speaker 6>a great a Captain America movie. But I enjoyed it

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<v Speaker 6>quite a bit for all those things.

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<v Speaker 2>Good all right, Steve, initial thoughts, go ahead, everybody else,

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<v Speaker 2>you've done it.

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<v Speaker 3>Get you know when you're when when you're in middle

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<v Speaker 3>school and you go over to a friend's house, it's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>do you have some soda? And they're like sure, You're

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<v Speaker 3>like great, can I have some Doctor Pepper? And they

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<v Speaker 3>pour you something but it's Doctor Thunder, so it tastes

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<v Speaker 3>like Doctor Pepper, but it's like a pale shadow of that,

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<v Speaker 3>like something is just off. It's there in the general

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<v Speaker 3>area of that flavor profile, but it's just not there.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what I felt about this movie. It there were

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<v Speaker 3>so many things where I thought, oh, we're we've got

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<v Speaker 3>sort of second tier Captain America. Oh, we've got this

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<v Speaker 3>mysterious personal security person who's uh widows. So we've got

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<v Speaker 3>a Captain America black widow type of thing that they're

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<v Speaker 3>trying to set up. But there were so many things

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<v Speaker 3>where I felt like it's this rewarmed version of the

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<v Speaker 3>Captain America Winter Soldier we liked, you know, we don't

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<v Speaker 3>have Hydro, Who've got the Serpent Society, And it was

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<v Speaker 3>just always like watered down versions of what we already had.

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<v Speaker 3>It didn't feel like a retread of Winter Soldier. It

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<v Speaker 3>just felt like a really hollow going to Mike's point,

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<v Speaker 3>like a first draft copy of well, let's let's try

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<v Speaker 3>these things again.

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<v Speaker 1>And it had the components.

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<v Speaker 2>It just yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And to JJ's point, I was looking back through my notes,

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<v Speaker 3>we got so much exposition about Ross at the beginning.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, is this a Captain America movie or not?

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<v Speaker 3>Is really the story of you know, Ross and his story,

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<v Speaker 3>because we've got that going on. So I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>the movie settled on whose story this was because I

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't invested in anybody, really, I didn't have a direction

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<v Speaker 3>to be rooting for, and so I just walked out

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<v Speaker 3>with my you know, the bad aftertaste of Doctor Thunder

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<v Speaker 3>at the end of this.

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<v Speaker 2>That was always carib to me. I'd go over to

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<v Speaker 2>my buddy Matt McGarrity's house and his mom would try

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<v Speaker 2>to gaslight me that this chocolate was not carib It

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<v Speaker 2>was carib we all knew, so I you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess I'm with you. And I feel like the shape

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<v Speaker 2>of Sam Wilson's Captain America was effectively understudy to the

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<v Speaker 2>octagenarian President story. And that surprised me, maybe more than

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<v Speaker 2>anything else in this movie. I knew obviously that Harrison

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<v Speaker 2>Ford was taking over the role of Thunderbolt Ross, I

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<v Speaker 2>did not know that this was going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>Thunderbolt Ross movie. And I found myself puzzled by that mike.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's a way to wait.

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<v Speaker 7>How clean is this show? I just want to know

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<v Speaker 7>how off I can go clean? No, I'm glad, I asked, ye,

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<v Speaker 7>that's the vibe, so.

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<v Speaker 5>I wish he was party.

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<v Speaker 4>Whatever you want?

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<v Speaker 2>Why I am right now it's so loud.

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<v Speaker 7>Why Winter's Soldier worked is it was pretty pretty clearly

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<v Speaker 7>mapped to like Three Days of the Condor, Right.

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<v Speaker 2>I love political thrillers. This uh as Steve.

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<v Speaker 7>Said, it was pretty poorly mapped to Winter Soldier, And

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<v Speaker 7>you know what have worked, especially if you're gonna put

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<v Speaker 7>Ross is map it too?

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<v Speaker 2>Like Maturian Candidate. Do that again. I would love to

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<v Speaker 2>see make good movies, but now these remake good movies.

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<v Speaker 2>But now they have powers.

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<v Speaker 7>Cool, especially if you're gonna go this Thunderboard Rolls does

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<v Speaker 7>not know he's the Red Hulk, which is very different

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<v Speaker 7>than in the comics. Aim at that and also, don't

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<v Speaker 7>bait and switch us called. I know there's like legal issues,

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<v Speaker 7>but I don't know. Maybe don't make that movie until

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<v Speaker 7>you legally can because it's giving short shrift to Cap

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<v Speaker 7>while he's sort of in the background doing with am

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<v Speaker 7>I supposed to be Cap? I know I had a

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<v Speaker 7>TV show that was about that, but not everybody saw

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<v Speaker 7>that TV show. So I'm gonna I'm gonna do that

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<v Speaker 7>warmed over again as well, Like it's it's unfair now

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<v Speaker 7>drop in a bunch of f bombs.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the This is I think the challenge that

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<v Speaker 2>I have that you're getting at, which is there are

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<v Speaker 2>ideas in this movie that are great. I love the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of gaslighting the president and and that twist from

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<v Speaker 2>the books where Thunderbolt Ross has been taking these pills

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<v Speaker 2>for his heart to keep him alive. I really like

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<v Speaker 2>that idea. Like that concept is awesome.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know how you screw that up.

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<v Speaker 2>But what what we got on screen by like the

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<v Speaker 2>this movie was structurally disjointed and clumsy in spite of

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of really interesting concepts that could have made

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<v Speaker 2>for a great cap movie.

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<v Speaker 4>Tom, I think that's just the there's what five or

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<v Speaker 4>six credited writers, and even as many just for story.

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<v Speaker 4>It makes me think of a writer's room where they

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<v Speaker 4>all kept fighting for their original ideas, because this movie

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<v Speaker 4>has five big ideas, all in search of a through line.

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<v Speaker 4>And I just wonder if you get that many people

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<v Speaker 4>and the writer's guild gets involved, that nobody backs down,

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<v Speaker 4>then you just keep putting more things and then give

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<v Speaker 4>weird I like the praise short Shrift. I'm gonna start

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<v Speaker 4>saying that now, but short Shrift to like basic things

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<v Speaker 4>like I know we haven't talked about the big bad yet,

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<v Speaker 4>and we're going to get to that doctor who villain.

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<v Speaker 4>But the idea of how like what's overlooked is his

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<v Speaker 4>real power is how he's able to call any phone,

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<v Speaker 4>any walkie talkie, any fight receiver at will, Like that's

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<v Speaker 4>he just shows up places dressed like the UDA bomber.

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<v Speaker 4>He knows he's able to be whatever wherever he needs

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<v Speaker 4>to be and do whatever he needs to do just

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<v Speaker 4>to keep the story moving forward. They don't feel the

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<v Speaker 4>need to explain that. And yet this film is filled

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<v Speaker 4>with speeches, filled with much exposition and so much speed,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's like you're not even bothering to tell the

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<v Speaker 4>tale that you're doing because there's so much clep.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, that's it, And and the logic problems in this

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<v Speaker 6>film are just I mean, there's their legion. They're all

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<v Speaker 6>over the place, and you could what what what gave.

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<v Speaker 4>You the most?

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<v Speaker 2>What's what are the some of the splinters that.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, I mean, it's really hard when nothing is explained

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<v Speaker 6>about Red Hulk to explain to people who don't know

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<v Speaker 6>about Red Hulk that everything he's touching turns to fire,

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<v Speaker 6>like I mean, of course there is there is a

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<v Speaker 6>lore in well, like when he gets smashed into the

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<v Speaker 6>White House, the white house catches on fire. When he

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<v Speaker 6>punches into a car, the car immediately explodes into flame.

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<v Speaker 2>Like these things he puts his feet on the ground,

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<v Speaker 2>he leaves flaming.

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<v Speaker 7>Foots because the Red Hulk, the anger he gets, the

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<v Speaker 7>hotter he gets, right, Okay, And he basically say that

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<v Speaker 7>at all this is a point, right, So, like, if

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<v Speaker 7>you are a Tommy watcher to this film, like and

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<v Speaker 7>you try to examine the logic.

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<v Speaker 5>It's just a nightmare.

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<v Speaker 6>And that could be with all those things you bring

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<v Speaker 6>it up, with the leader and the fact that he

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<v Speaker 6>can do anything, call anything technology, you know, all these things,

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<v Speaker 6>the logic problems don't exist, and I think, or I mean,

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<v Speaker 6>they do exist.

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<v Speaker 5>They're all over the place.

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<v Speaker 6>And I think the problem is is that they The

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<v Speaker 6>thing that I liked about the movie was that they

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<v Speaker 6>were spending time in exposition tying up loose ends, which

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<v Speaker 6>is again the thing that I wanted from eight Marvel

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<v Speaker 6>movies before this, So I get that here. But then

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<v Speaker 6>if you look at this as a standalone film, it's

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<v Speaker 6>it's it doesn't make sense unfortunately. So that's that's a

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<v Speaker 6>hard problem because so many of the things that they're

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<v Speaker 6>feeding me as easter eggs and storylines and planting seeds

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<v Speaker 6>for what's to come, has me literally cheering in the

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<v Speaker 6>theater as a comic fanboy. But none of that is

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<v Speaker 6>explained in the simple, isolated story of New World Order.

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<v Speaker 4>And for me, there are no loose threads because everything

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<v Speaker 4>yea Marvel is one big yarn store.

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<v Speaker 2>One one of the loose threads that they came back to,

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<v Speaker 2>which honestly, I was the Eternals. Oh a a an

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<v Speaker 2>homage to the Marvel team that was the Eternals. We

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<v Speaker 2>have Celestial Island now, and there is u There are

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<v Speaker 2>geopolitical tensions around Celestial Island because Adamantium is inside it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, why are you laughing? It's right, because this

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<v Speaker 2>is one of those things where I was so excited

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<v Speaker 2>to hear the word because I'm a fan. I like stuff. Yeah, yes, that,

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought you're gonna shoehorn Adamantium into the Avengers

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<v Speaker 2>storyline by way of the Eternals. Is that how it

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<v Speaker 2>was in the books? Where did Adamantium come from? Was

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<v Speaker 2>it was not from the seed? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 2>No, But I mean I was laughing out loud at

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<v Speaker 2>this this bit. I thought, this is okay, I get it.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the challenge of reading the news about these studios.

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<v Speaker 2>The more you know, the more ridiculous it is. The

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<v Speaker 2>hoops they have to jump through to write these threads together.

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<v Speaker 6>Very true, But Celestial Island is arguably the biggest complaint

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<v Speaker 6>that people have with the consistency of Marvel movies post Eternals.

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<v Speaker 6>The fact that this thing exists on the planet and

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<v Speaker 6>nobody's talking about it. You know, mar the MCU did

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<v Speaker 6>a great job of talking about the blip post Infinity War,

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<v Speaker 6>and then they dropped it into lots of things. Celestial

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<v Speaker 6>Island has not been talked about, and everyone when people

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<v Speaker 6>complain about the consistency, they're like.

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<v Speaker 5>Isn't this a big deal? Wouldn't people be talking about this?

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<v Speaker 6>So the fact that it's shoehorned in I actually don't

385
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<v Speaker 6>have a problem with because if you look at the

386
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.319
<v Speaker 6>cut scene from The Marvels and bringing the Mutants in,

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00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:47.960
<v Speaker 6>you look at the end of Miss Marvel and bringing

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00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.440
<v Speaker 6>the Mutants in, these kind of things, like all of

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<v Speaker 6>the things that they're doing to try to bring the

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<v Speaker 6>mutants in. Now that they settled that damn lawsuit with Fox,

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00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:58.680
<v Speaker 6>I am a go for So, yes, go ahead and

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<v Speaker 6>shoehorn Adamantium to the celestial and then connect it to

393
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<v Speaker 6>the Japanese orient origin of Wolverine. I'm all about it, Like,

394
00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.960
<v Speaker 6>if we can do that, Like, that's great, right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 6>And so this is like again opening me up for

396
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.359
<v Speaker 6>hope in terms of the MCU that I haven't had

397
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.920
<v Speaker 6>until I saw this movie. So, yes, these things are shoehorned,

398
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<v Speaker 6>Yes they are, But I don't mind it. I'm I'm

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00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.359
<v Speaker 6>all for it right now. It's it's on screen and

400
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:26.039
<v Speaker 6>I'm loving it.

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00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I love your boundless optimism, Mike, as another as

402
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.920
<v Speaker 2>a cap guy and another comic guy. Do you share

403
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.559
<v Speaker 2>the boundless optimism for the future.

404
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:41.720
<v Speaker 7>No, I wish I could. I wish I had your optimism.

405
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:47.279
<v Speaker 7>JJ that nothing in Phase five has made me hopeful.

406
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<v Speaker 7>That sure, there's seeds here, but they haven't been good

407
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.240
<v Speaker 7>with planting and harvesting for years now.

408
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<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, oh, cool, more things. I love your ruin.

409
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.640
<v Speaker 2>It's marvel. Everything is for you.

410
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<v Speaker 7>It's what you imagined as a kid, and it's middling cool.

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<v Speaker 7>Thanks thanks Disney, Thank you Entertainment.

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00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.799
<v Speaker 6>But it hasn't always been that way, right, Mike. I

413
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:15.799
<v Speaker 6>mean like, okay, so that's the thing. I mean, yes,

414
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.880
<v Speaker 6>they have disappointed us, and they've dropped We're the babies

415
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.839
<v Speaker 6>that they've dropped now since Endgame. But the reality is

416
00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.920
<v Speaker 6>they have accomplished more in cinema than anyone else in

417
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<v Speaker 6>the history of cinema.

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00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:31.000
<v Speaker 7>The Infinity saga was so masterful and and wow, and

419
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.200
<v Speaker 7>then they started playing with scared money even though like

420
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:34.599
<v Speaker 7>you did a thing that can never be done. But

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00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:36.400
<v Speaker 7>it's like they're the wiley coyote and they looked down

422
00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:37.119
<v Speaker 7>after endgame and.

423
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:39.200
<v Speaker 2>They're like, oh, what are we doing?

424
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.920
<v Speaker 7>And then it just started like like I don't care

425
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.640
<v Speaker 7>about connections. I care about and maybe this is wrong

426
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.319
<v Speaker 7>to think about Marvel in this way. I care about

427
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.119
<v Speaker 7>a good movie. And Marvel doesn't make movies. They they

428
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.279
<v Speaker 7>they do make, sorry other Marvel fans, they do make

429
00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:57.440
<v Speaker 7>a giant on screen rollercoaster rides or like a very

430
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:01.000
<v Speaker 7>long TV show, and that is a different thing. And

431
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:03.160
<v Speaker 7>so part maybe I keep getting burned because I keep

432
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.039
<v Speaker 7>being like, maybe this one will be a movie.

433
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:06.759
<v Speaker 4>No, it won't be.

434
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what was the last one?

435
00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:11.079
<v Speaker 5>Was the last one that you felt was a movie?

436
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:12.839
<v Speaker 2>Anyone? Anyone?

437
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:14.720
<v Speaker 6>And that's not just for Mike, I would say, I

438
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.799
<v Speaker 6>would argue for me, it was Shang Chi, Like I

439
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:21.240
<v Speaker 6>really liked it, felt like a good movie separate from everything.

440
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.240
<v Speaker 7>And my issues was I love Chunxi. My issues with

441
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:25.480
<v Speaker 7>that were the issues that I have a lot with

442
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.039
<v Speaker 7>a lot of superheroes. Is great two thirds and then

443
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:32.319
<v Speaker 7>sure CGI glows and thrown at each other who cares, uh,

444
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.640
<v Speaker 7>but other than Matt love And that's what I want.

445
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:36.839
<v Speaker 7>I want two thirds of a great thing. That's that's

446
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:38.279
<v Speaker 7>all I that's where my.

447
00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:42.599
<v Speaker 2>That's where the Yeah, so we weren't we weren't excited

448
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:46.160
<v Speaker 2>about I'm so I note there that shang Chi is

449
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:50.319
<v Speaker 2>the only Phase four film that we're talking about, right,

450
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:55.279
<v Speaker 2>uh And it was only the second technically the first

451
00:22:55.319 --> 00:23:00.160
<v Speaker 2>because Black Widow what was that? But then it was

452
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.799
<v Speaker 2>all downhill nobody no, nobody has love for Spider Man,

453
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.559
<v Speaker 2>No Way Home and.

454
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:06.119
<v Speaker 4>That movie.

455
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I felt like that was a movie.

456
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:10.559
<v Speaker 4>Is that's where the whole three of them come back.

457
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 2>That was a lot of fun gas that Wolverine. Oh,

458
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:15.519
<v Speaker 2>I love it, super fun.

459
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:19.079
<v Speaker 7>But they're doing their own things and it is like, oh,

460
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:21.279
<v Speaker 7>now you have to know about twenty years of movies

461
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.440
<v Speaker 7>and so like it's those were great though, the super

462
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.279
<v Speaker 7>enjoyable times, but like it still didn't feel like a

463
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.839
<v Speaker 7>movie movie. I guess I like Guardians three. I like

464
00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:31.720
<v Speaker 7>Guardians three a lot.

465
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, Guardians three. So now we're into Phase five.

466
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.240
<v Speaker 2>We have some love for Phase five, and that's Guardians

467
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:42.119
<v Speaker 2>three and Deadpool and Wolverine. And I'll tell you high

468
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:46.160
<v Speaker 2>optimism for me. I'm really liking what I'm seeing from

469
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four. Those things have me excited, uh

470
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 2>in a new way? Your head, I'm watching you, Hedge.

471
00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, so this was the thing.

472
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:02.559
<v Speaker 3>I because I saw the preview for the Thunderbolts before

473
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:03.119
<v Speaker 3>this movie.

474
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:04.119
<v Speaker 1>I was like cool.

475
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.039
<v Speaker 3>But then I get halfway through this and Bucky shows

476
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.039
<v Speaker 3>up and he's running from Congress, So I'm like, how

477
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:11.519
<v Speaker 3>are we gonna That's a big leap from I'm running

478
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:14.000
<v Speaker 3>from Congress too. I'm in the Marvel version of the

479
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.640
<v Speaker 3>Suicide Squad doing stuff like that's a lot.

480
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Of story to happen.

481
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.000
<v Speaker 3>It's like, oh, is that the We'll do a TV

482
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 3>series to explain what happens in between these time periods.

483
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:27.519
<v Speaker 3>But I agree, I like the feel of that, but

484
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 3>it does get into an area of something that is

485
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.400
<v Speaker 3>you know, for me, becoming problematic with these Marvel movies

486
00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 3>is just the cheesy jokes and stuff where it's just

487
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.519
<v Speaker 3>because it's just tired, you know. I'm like, how many

488
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.759
<v Speaker 3>times can it's like, Oh, we're gonna say something off

489
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.519
<v Speaker 3>the cuff and it's it's a bad joke. I mean,

490
00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:49.400
<v Speaker 3>the whole Bucky showing up and Sam's like, oh, did

491
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.880
<v Speaker 3>your speech writers write that. I'm like, yeah, okay, it

492
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.680
<v Speaker 3>got laughs from the audience, but I just feel like

493
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:59.599
<v Speaker 3>that is another thing that's just been overplayed.

494
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.480
<v Speaker 4>It was crickets in mind, and it's a long cricket yes,

495
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.720
<v Speaker 4>because they really they don't know how to end the joke,

496
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.640
<v Speaker 4>just keep going. And I think I got a whiff

497
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.000
<v Speaker 4>of uh letting the stars do a little bit too

498
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 4>much improv and so that each one of them wanted

499
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:18.480
<v Speaker 4>to have the final line, so it just kept yes.

500
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.480
<v Speaker 7>Yes, it really shows you believe in that the emotional

501
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:25.279
<v Speaker 7>core of your scene or the movie when you undercut

502
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 7>it immediately. What if what if two people who are

503
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.400
<v Speaker 7>dealing with something serious and like your new mentee is

504
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.279
<v Speaker 7>almost dead, what if you just sat What if you

505
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.880
<v Speaker 7>just sat in emotion for one second cool and ended

506
00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:39.000
<v Speaker 7>with I love you and like that that that meant that,

507
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.920
<v Speaker 7>I like the I love you was so much more.

508
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Meaningful than me. Right.

509
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:47.000
<v Speaker 6>I'm so happy that they said that, Like I literally

510
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.480
<v Speaker 6>was was asking for that in my mind before they

511
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:49.839
<v Speaker 6>said that.

512
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:50.640
<v Speaker 2>It was so great.

513
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.799
<v Speaker 3>But I think the issue is who is Marvel making

514
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:56.920
<v Speaker 3>these movies for. I think you know, vinas Saga, We're

515
00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.680
<v Speaker 3>getting to like Mike's point, these are films. I think

516
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.839
<v Speaker 3>what there seems to me they're leaning into is we're

517
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.079
<v Speaker 3>doing comic book movies and our key audience is twelve

518
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:07.359
<v Speaker 3>year old, so they don't want to deal with serious

519
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.519
<v Speaker 3>drama and emotion. That's boring or I'm not equipped to

520
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.160
<v Speaker 3>deal with processing those feelings now, so we undercut it

521
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.240
<v Speaker 3>with a joke because my primary audience is teenage boys,

522
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.960
<v Speaker 3>so I can do things that are you know, water

523
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:22.680
<v Speaker 3>down copies of things and all that, because there'll be

524
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.519
<v Speaker 3>one hundred percent on board for that. But we, as

525
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:29.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, grumpy old men veteran film viewers, are like,

526
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.200
<v Speaker 3>I've seen this done before and ten times better, and

527
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.480
<v Speaker 3>this is, you know, a boring trope. You know, you're

528
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:38.319
<v Speaker 3>doing the same thing again, and so I have to

529
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.039
<v Speaker 3>bring that mindset to this film of maybe my expectations

530
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.880
<v Speaker 3>are wrong from this and I'm putting too much on this,

531
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.720
<v Speaker 3>and can I just sit back and say, yeah, it's

532
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.240
<v Speaker 3>like picking up another issue of a comic book, and

533
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.119
<v Speaker 3>sure the story's familiar all that, but I'm.

534
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:54.759
<v Speaker 2>Just going to go with it.

535
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:58.000
<v Speaker 3>As as Mike said, a roller coaster ride, it's going

536
00:26:58.039 --> 00:26:59.920
<v Speaker 3>to be the same ride I know what the thrills are,

537
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.640
<v Speaker 3>I know what that is, but a certain reward in

538
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:05.759
<v Speaker 3>that in and of itself. I it's the only way

539
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.799
<v Speaker 3>I can reconcile how to feel about this movie without

540
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:10.200
<v Speaker 3>being angry and disappointed.

541
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to go through life like that. So

542
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 1>what joy can I find?

543
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:14.079
<v Speaker 7>It was?

544
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.319
<v Speaker 2>It was fine, it was fun. It's time for me.

545
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.079
<v Speaker 2>It's I think that let's uh, I think that let's

546
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.319
<v Speaker 2>marvel off too easily, Steve, because because as we keep

547
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.480
<v Speaker 2>going back to Winter Soldier, as we keep going back Toinity,

548
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:32.400
<v Speaker 2>where these characters were allowed to live in sadness and

549
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:35.799
<v Speaker 2>fear for a while and not have to out quit

550
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:40.160
<v Speaker 2>each other every single beat. Uh, they are, They're capable

551
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.839
<v Speaker 2>for making these movies. Instead, what do we get in

552
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Phase five? We get Deadpool and Wolverine, which is the

553
00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 2>ultimate dopamine hit for us. Right, we're the audience right here,

554
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:57.319
<v Speaker 2>podcasters the adult guy. And there is precious little substance

555
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.839
<v Speaker 2>in that movie too, right, that movie what? I loved

556
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 2>that movie. But we got a scene in a diner

557
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.359
<v Speaker 2>where they were like snipping at each other for what

558
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:13.079
<v Speaker 2>forty five seconds on screen talking about their legacy. It

559
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 2>was just dopamine. So I really enjoyed it. Does it

560
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.000
<v Speaker 2>live up to what we got in Three Days of

561
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:20.160
<v Speaker 2>the condor Marvel?

562
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:20.799
<v Speaker 4>No?

563
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:23.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it does. I think that's the thing

564
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 2>that scares me the most. As the movies get are

565
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:32.160
<v Speaker 2>written in a more formulaic, more simplistic way, there is

566
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:42.319
<v Speaker 2>still this need to mirror, mirror ape real geopolitical tensions. Right.

567
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.119
<v Speaker 2>And because so much of this movie takes place in

568
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:50.119
<v Speaker 2>the White House and through and in the situation room

569
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:55.400
<v Speaker 2>and all the rooms with lots of video screens, I wonder,

570
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:58.720
<v Speaker 2>what are we thinking about how well the movie handles

571
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:01.400
<v Speaker 2>the stuff that we can see when we turn on

572
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:05.640
<v Speaker 2>the TV or you know, the latest stream. Mike is

573
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.119
<v Speaker 2>already shaking his head. I haven't finished the sentence.

574
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:11.000
<v Speaker 7>The writers of this, I think have heard of the

575
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.559
<v Speaker 7>show The West Wing. That is their level of knowledge

576
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:20.519
<v Speaker 7>and understanding of geopolitical interactions.

577
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, I mean we're literally talking about the atamatium.

578
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:27.599
<v Speaker 5>You stole my amaxium.

579
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 6>It is not a complex global issue to talk about

580
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:34.880
<v Speaker 6>a single resource in this way.

581
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>But the Japanese Prime Minister was hot. He was angry,

582
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:44.640
<v Speaker 2>clearly hot in a oh he was also Yeah, this

583
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:45.559
<v Speaker 2>is a real smokestack.

584
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:48.519
<v Speaker 4>It seemed like there was a version of this movie

585
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.559
<v Speaker 4>in one of the nine scripts that they melded together,

586
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:55.319
<v Speaker 4>where it was trying to make more aims. We do

587
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.119
<v Speaker 4>have these like misinformation, We do have a renegade in

588
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:02.039
<v Speaker 4>the White House. He literally turns kind of orange at

589
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:04.440
<v Speaker 4>some point, like there's no reason to like go and

590
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.720
<v Speaker 4>so it's and then like to bring an Israeli soldier

591
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:11.240
<v Speaker 4>into it, albeit a fun sized one. But like it

592
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.279
<v Speaker 4>seemed like there were all of these interesting, potentially interesting

593
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:19.039
<v Speaker 4>things going on and they've all been sanded down. Yeah

594
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:21.160
<v Speaker 4>to the fact that I don't know what this film's

595
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:25.000
<v Speaker 4>politics are. If they are, it's too busy talking about heroes.

596
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:26.759
<v Speaker 4>But like just to bring up that same thing of

597
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.880
<v Speaker 4>like to have Leader Man show up, right, I mean,

598
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 4>as the unibomber, he has the glasses and everything. What's

599
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:36.680
<v Speaker 4>going on? What are these cultural touch points that lead

600
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:40.319
<v Speaker 4>to nothing? But it makes me crazy because I'm trying

601
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 4>to see through it and hook them all together and

602
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.480
<v Speaker 4>instead it's just a bunch of dispirit touchstones, which doesn't help.

603
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:48.920
<v Speaker 3>And you know, earlier we had you know, in Marvel Earth,

604
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.160
<v Speaker 3>we had the Cecovia Accords. We had something named this

605
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.759
<v Speaker 3>they threw around, It's the treaty, the treaty, the treaty.

606
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, the treaty for what is that? The Adamantium

607
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:57.079
<v Speaker 3>treaty what?

608
00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:57.480
<v Speaker 4>You know?

609
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 3>I knew that was an important thing, but all he

610
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:01.400
<v Speaker 3>talked about got to get the treaty signed. I'm like,

611
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:05.160
<v Speaker 3>is there another treaty? It's just mcguffin treaty that I

612
00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:08.319
<v Speaker 3>didn't know what why Ross was so invested in it.

613
00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:12.000
<v Speaker 3>I you know, there was so much going on of

614
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:16.599
<v Speaker 3>who actually stole the Adamantium? Was that actually the CIA?

615
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:16.960
<v Speaker 4>Why not?

616
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:20.519
<v Speaker 3>And I realized it doesn't matter because nobody knows. It

617
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:23.640
<v Speaker 3>doesn't matter because it's just mcguffin to get Ross, you know,

618
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.960
<v Speaker 3>to get angry at the end. And I thought, you know,

619
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.039
<v Speaker 3>that was so disappointing because I've thought, at the beginning,

620
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:31.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm on the edge of my seat. Oh, here's some

621
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:35.039
<v Speaker 3>interesting politics. Who is this serpent society? Where where are they?

622
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 3>What kind of force are they in this geopolitical you know,

623
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:40.680
<v Speaker 3>what are they trying to do? And I realized none

624
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.400
<v Speaker 3>of it matters it when it comes down to it,

625
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:46.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't have any reason to care, because I can't

626
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.440
<v Speaker 3>make sense of it, and I don't think any of

627
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.279
<v Speaker 3>these characters even cared about it at all.

628
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:53.880
<v Speaker 4>That ends up being just a bunch of disparate things

629
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:59.079
<v Speaker 4>held together by probability. If you probability enough, it's like, yes, well,

630
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.480
<v Speaker 4>I guess if you have a character that can see

631
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:04.559
<v Speaker 4>the future and take care of every communication device in

632
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:06.359
<v Speaker 4>the world, yeah, you can get stuff done.

633
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:09.400
<v Speaker 6>What I would argue is that it's not held together

634
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:13.200
<v Speaker 6>by probability. It's held together by Marvel easterings or Marvel

635
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.759
<v Speaker 6>scenes for the future. So this is again the point

636
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:17.519
<v Speaker 6>that I've been making the entire time about this movie.

637
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:20.000
<v Speaker 6>It is not a great movie, but it is a

638
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.920
<v Speaker 6>solid Marvel movie because all they're doing I don't think

639
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:27.319
<v Speaker 6>they do make a connection to actual geopolitics. I think

640
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.680
<v Speaker 6>they are using it, as Steve says a mcguffin here,

641
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.680
<v Speaker 6>to get to the points of the story they want

642
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:37.839
<v Speaker 6>to talk to, which are adamant to Celestial Island, you know,

643
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:40.960
<v Speaker 6>rebuild the Avengers, like these are the things that this

644
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:42.880
<v Speaker 6>is all they're caring about in this movie. It is

645
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.559
<v Speaker 6>a transition film to get to the next of what's

646
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.359
<v Speaker 6>happening and I would argue the thing about the Thunderbolts.

647
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:50.680
<v Speaker 6>I had the exact same thought you did, Steve, which

648
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.200
<v Speaker 6>is like, how is he going to go from Congress

649
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.039
<v Speaker 6>to the Thunderbolts? But that makes a fantastic complicating incident

650
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:55.960
<v Speaker 6>for that next movie.

651
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:59.160
<v Speaker 5>If we get there. So I'm all about that.

652
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 6>And I love the cast of Thunderbolts so much that

653
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.559
<v Speaker 6>I find myself like weeping with joy in the trailer

654
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:09.920
<v Speaker 6>just to see Florence Pugh and David Harbor, like just

655
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:11.559
<v Speaker 6>to see these people on screen again.

656
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 5>So I'm just really happy that that's where we're going next.

657
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:22.559
<v Speaker 2>The direction the director was Julius ohna Nigerian born director

658
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:28.079
<v Speaker 2>who is has done some interesting things. I think you

659
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.279
<v Speaker 2>did Loose, didn't you, guys?

660
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:32.519
<v Speaker 1>Rewind Yes, we did.

661
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:37.759
<v Speaker 3>It was a very very character driven story, so I

662
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:39.759
<v Speaker 3>thought that's what he would bring to this. And I

663
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:42.319
<v Speaker 3>see he's got you know, writing credit on this, and like,

664
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:47.599
<v Speaker 3>oh he complex story, characters tackling big issues and Nope,

665
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:48.279
<v Speaker 3>not here.

666
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean this is another one at Cloverfield paradox

667
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Is on the list. He did that for Netflix, I guess,

668
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:58.160
<v Speaker 2>and this is another one where I I think he's

669
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:02.000
<v Speaker 2>clearly a competent and talented director. And I wonder if

670
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:05.720
<v Speaker 2>this story was too big. It just becomes too much

671
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on direction.

672
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.559
<v Speaker 7>This isn't Julius. Is that that this isn't on Julius.

673
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:13.480
<v Speaker 7>This is the Marvel trend is like, Oh, this like

674
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:17.639
<v Speaker 7>hot indie director. Let's bring them in, but they can't

675
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:19.840
<v Speaker 7>direct the CGI. We have our own in house guys

676
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:21.800
<v Speaker 7>who will do that. Which some of my favorite part

677
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.360
<v Speaker 7>was the two the falcon cap flying and fighting. I

678
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:27.199
<v Speaker 7>was like, oh, oh that's fun, that's cool. Uh so

679
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:30.199
<v Speaker 7>you're you're undercutting everything these cool indie directors have to

680
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 7>bring and they that they are younger, so and they're

681
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:37.559
<v Speaker 7>going up against this behemoth that is Marvel Studios. So

682
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.599
<v Speaker 7>maybe they do need like a favro, like somebody's been

683
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:42.920
<v Speaker 7>around a little longer who can work with CGI and

684
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:45.920
<v Speaker 7>somebody who can like throw their weight around a little

685
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.639
<v Speaker 7>harder than somebody younger in their career. Which is probably

686
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.800
<v Speaker 7>why Marvel's going after this, because they they're like, oh,

687
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:53.480
<v Speaker 7>there's a paycheck and then you get to make the

688
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 7>thing you actually care about.

689
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's a utility director like fungible.

690
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:02.000
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, but that doesn't for an interesting that then we're

691
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:05.320
<v Speaker 7>undercutting Julius and anything he would bring to it is

692
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.480
<v Speaker 7>going away, and then we're undercutting the big, fun blockbusters

693
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:11.599
<v Speaker 7>thing that we want to see because it's their odd

694
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.079
<v Speaker 7>odds with direction.

695
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.199
<v Speaker 4>This sort of gets into direction and cinematography and editing

696
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.679
<v Speaker 4>all in one. I didn't think the film looked very good.

697
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 4>I think maybe they were trying to go for that

698
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:26.199
<v Speaker 4>sort of cold war ish, gritty kind of look, but

699
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:29.639
<v Speaker 4>instead it just looked like foggy, like it looked really

700
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:32.239
<v Speaker 4>grainy and gross. It was, but not in the beginning

701
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.800
<v Speaker 4>that opening scene in Mexico, which was my favorite part,

702
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:37.559
<v Speaker 4>and the film never fully leapt up to that, like

703
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:39.400
<v Speaker 4>when he landed and he goes wait for it and

704
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:42.800
<v Speaker 4>then the what it called the cloud comes back.

705
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I was like, return to farm.

706
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.079
<v Speaker 4>I think I screamed, returned to farm, but that I was.

707
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I was very much corrected.

708
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:53.320
<v Speaker 4>But it just looked really sludgy. And then so that's

709
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.960
<v Speaker 4>just a choice of like what kind of film stock

710
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.119
<v Speaker 4>or probably what kind of digital effect you put on

711
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:01.320
<v Speaker 4>it later I didn't care for. And also some of

712
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.000
<v Speaker 4>the action was great, a lot of it you lost

713
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.280
<v Speaker 4>your center of where things were and who was where

714
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:12.440
<v Speaker 4>and then some of it the editing was so sloppy

715
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:14.559
<v Speaker 4>in some of the fights. The only thing I can

716
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:17.599
<v Speaker 4>think of he didn't get the shot. There wasn't enough

717
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:20.800
<v Speaker 4>to cut to because things were like almost as bad

718
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.599
<v Speaker 4>as like coming in from the left and then reappearing

719
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.320
<v Speaker 4>on the right, like things were just kicks were appearing

720
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:32.360
<v Speaker 4>halfway through, And that just tells me, I mean, you editors,

721
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:33.960
<v Speaker 4>there were two different editors on it. If you just

722
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:36.239
<v Speaker 4>don't have the footage you have to get this guy

723
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.400
<v Speaker 4>over to the other side of the room, so you

724
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:40.880
<v Speaker 4>just sort of fudge it. So that makes me worried

725
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:42.800
<v Speaker 4>about the direction for that too, that I didn't feel

726
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.079
<v Speaker 4>he had a handle except for the opening sequence on

727
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.760
<v Speaker 4>all of the action, which seems like that should be

728
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:48.199
<v Speaker 4>your start.

729
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I think Steve makes a really good point in

730
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:54.280
<v Speaker 6>that Loose sort of the beauty of Loose was its

731
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:58.079
<v Speaker 6>character and like focusing on the characters. And if you

732
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:01.760
<v Speaker 6>boil this movie down and get some of those character scenes,

733
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:05.039
<v Speaker 6>you know, other than the quips, like we get some

734
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.119
<v Speaker 6>of that good stuff when we're there, but that's not

735
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:10.199
<v Speaker 6>that is not what a Marvel movie is. So you

736
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 6>run into all of those other things of effects and

737
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.280
<v Speaker 6>fights and stuff, and that's not really what this director

738
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:16.760
<v Speaker 6>is all about.

739
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:18.440
<v Speaker 5>Unfortunately, I think ye.

740
00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:24.679
<v Speaker 2>This movie at one point was on track to be

741
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:30.719
<v Speaker 2>released ahead of Deadpool and Wolverine. What suffered massive, massive

742
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.719
<v Speaker 2>rescheduling due to rewrites and reshoots.

743
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:36.519
<v Speaker 4>Interesting, that's you know what kind of do you know

744
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:37.639
<v Speaker 4>what kind of stuff was added?

745
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Jan Carlo Esposito's character was not in the original shoot

746
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:48.639
<v Speaker 2>or the junk yard fight. Those were some of the

747
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.599
<v Speaker 2>best parts, and so those came away later. Yeah, yeah, I.

748
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:55.480
<v Speaker 4>Bet that was a reaction to the incredibly underwhelming Tim

749
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.440
<v Speaker 4>Blake Nelson, who I love, but he is an under

750
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:02.000
<v Speaker 4>He underplays an under written character that looks bad.

751
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Like instead two movies cartoon movie.

752
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.039
<v Speaker 4>And I just like whenever G and Carlo was knocked out,

753
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 4>I was like, no, the movie I cared about. I

754
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:14.119
<v Speaker 4>was so much more interested in him.

755
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, which is why he's when he's gone, he's

756
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:18.119
<v Speaker 2>really gone.

757
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 4>You feel it an enormous thing to add to the movie.

758
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Huge, that's a lot.

759
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:27.239
<v Speaker 7>Of movie that they and this in theory, maybe it's Thunderbolts,

760
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:31.679
<v Speaker 7>but this should be the end of the They've said

761
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:33.360
<v Speaker 7>this is the end of the era of where we

762
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.519
<v Speaker 7>start filming before we have a finished script.

763
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:40.079
<v Speaker 2>We'll see, Marvel, We'll see. But that's what they've said.

764
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:45.440
<v Speaker 2>What'd you say, it's the monkeys part? Just yeah, uh

765
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.400
<v Speaker 2>so that that's that's non trivial complications to make this

766
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:54.639
<v Speaker 2>movie and you know part and partial two, having a

767
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of writers, a lot of underwhelming content ultimately, and

768
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.320
<v Speaker 2>yet that first part of the movie, I think when

769
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:04.000
<v Speaker 2>they're in like the boxing ring, it looks the best,

770
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.000
<v Speaker 2>it feels the best. Like the early part of the movie,

771
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:10.039
<v Speaker 2>I think they do a solid job building this character

772
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:13.679
<v Speaker 2>and building this character who is dealing with the fact

773
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.960
<v Speaker 2>that he never took the serum. I think there is

774
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.840
<v Speaker 2>an interesting angle here that we yeaut We did kind

775
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:24.320
<v Speaker 2>of have that played out in you know, the the series,

776
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:29.280
<v Speaker 2>and yet I thought this one, I thought they seeded

777
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.039
<v Speaker 2>it well to show why Sam Wilson is different than

778
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Steve Rogers and we have to hear that. We have

779
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:41.840
<v Speaker 2>to see it, they have to make that case. I

780
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:45.000
<v Speaker 2>feel let down by the fact that they only said

781
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.519
<v Speaker 2>I want you to help me rebuild the Avengers and

782
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:49.519
<v Speaker 2>didn't give us the scene like we got at the

783
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:54.000
<v Speaker 2>end of was it of Iron Man where they walk through.

784
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.960
<v Speaker 5>And that's what I did.

785
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:58.880
<v Speaker 2>The cut scene to me, Yeah, yes, don't say anything

786
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:01.119
<v Speaker 2>about the cut scene. We're talking about the scene at

787
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.320
<v Speaker 2>the end in our post credits post credits chat. That's right,

788
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:06.960
<v Speaker 2>we have the credits post credits chat.

789
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:11.000
<v Speaker 6>But your point is well taken, and that that is

790
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:13.840
<v Speaker 6>again I'll just sort of point back to those those

791
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.199
<v Speaker 6>sort of outline points that I mentioned in terms of

792
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:17.280
<v Speaker 6>the marveling.

793
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:17.880
<v Speaker 5>Of this movie.

794
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.559
<v Speaker 6>That's one of the interesting things. So do something with

795
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:24.199
<v Speaker 6>that because that's the thing that people are going to

796
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:24.960
<v Speaker 6>care about and.

797
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Why we show up exactly just the three I don't know.

798
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:30.559
<v Speaker 2>I would ask you what you you feel like you're

799
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:34.519
<v Speaker 2>the signature action scene is of the movie. We have

800
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:37.800
<v Speaker 2>the Celestial Island fight. Mike already brought that up. We

801
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>have the white House fight, the destruction of the White House.

802
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.960
<v Speaker 2>A number of these things were teased in the you know,

803
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.519
<v Speaker 2>in the in the tea, in the trailer. We have

804
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.760
<v Speaker 2>the Red Hulk fight at the end in Cherry Tree Lane.

805
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Am I missing a big sequence?

806
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:58.199
<v Speaker 7>Oh well not in the Mexico Mexico, and then the

807
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.639
<v Speaker 7>second Esposito Mackie fight and the junk Yard.

808
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:06.440
<v Speaker 2>So okay, all right, so of those, how do you

809
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:10.880
<v Speaker 2>feel those that fight, in particular much more grounded fight

810
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of practical stuff. You know, it's it's it's

811
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:18.159
<v Speaker 2>good to punch. And because this segment is normally titled

812
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:22.840
<v Speaker 2>fake Things on fake Things, we're just watching effectively an

813
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.280
<v Speaker 2>animated movie. At some point in some of these sequences,

814
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:29.039
<v Speaker 2>how do you feel they looked? This is the controversy

815
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:32.800
<v Speaker 2>of Marvel pushes. It's, you know, cg artists too hard,

816
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:35.400
<v Speaker 2>too fast, to do too much, and they don't know

817
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.880
<v Speaker 2>what they're making before the movie, before they know what

818
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:41.679
<v Speaker 2>the movie is, and all kinds of complaints. How did

819
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:42.719
<v Speaker 2>this look to you?

820
00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 4>Some of the it was weird, some of the CGI

821
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.599
<v Speaker 4>looked very poor to me, and some of it looked outstanding.

822
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:53.400
<v Speaker 4>I think I'm not smart enough to know what you

823
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:56.079
<v Speaker 4>need to do. I know that you shouldn't put robots

824
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 4>in the sunlight. That there's a reason that when you

825
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:02.239
<v Speaker 4>can do that, that's a credible because things immediately look

826
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.280
<v Speaker 4>fake in the sunlight. But there was a lot of

827
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:06.719
<v Speaker 4>stuff like the flying I thought was really strong. I

828
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:10.559
<v Speaker 4>thought Red Hulk for I kept kind of giggling about

829
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:14.880
<v Speaker 4>Red Hulk, but he looked pretty good for what he is.

830
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:16.920
<v Speaker 4>I thought, I'm not always but a lot of the

831
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:23.519
<v Speaker 4>stuff looked really good, but then other times things looked bad.

832
00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:26.159
<v Speaker 4>And there was also you could tell that so much

833
00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:27.760
<v Speaker 4>of this movie, or a lot of this movie was

834
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.760
<v Speaker 4>made in post. There were even some like even some

835
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.920
<v Speaker 4>of the things when he's talking up at Red Hulk

836
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:35.960
<v Speaker 4>trying to talk him down, is clearly a green screen,

837
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:38.639
<v Speaker 4>and it's kind of like, what are we doing here?

838
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.159
<v Speaker 4>You can make me believe that that car was cut

839
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.480
<v Speaker 4>in half by a magical wing and you can't do

840
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:48.599
<v Speaker 4>this over the shoulders shot and one of those brings

841
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:49.039
<v Speaker 4>me out of it.

842
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:51.519
<v Speaker 6>So even with the car, I mean, they only gave

843
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.639
<v Speaker 6>us half the car, Like, there's a way to shoot

844
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:56.519
<v Speaker 6>that differently to make that look much cooler. When I

845
00:42:56.599 --> 00:42:58.079
<v Speaker 6>saw that that was gonna happen in the trailer, I

846
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.639
<v Speaker 6>was all excited about it, and it was like I

847
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:02.800
<v Speaker 6>got half of what I wanted to see from that.

848
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:05.760
<v Speaker 6>Your first question, Pete, I want to kind of answer,

849
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:09.320
<v Speaker 6>which is what is the signature fight? I think, fortunately

850
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.079
<v Speaker 6>or unfortunately, it has to be the cherry blossom fight

851
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:14.800
<v Speaker 6>at the end, just because that's going to be sort

852
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:17.239
<v Speaker 6>of the most memorable piece with the Red Hulk, but

853
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:19.360
<v Speaker 6>I don't think it's the best by any means, and

854
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.280
<v Speaker 6>I agree with Tommy. I don't think it looks good

855
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:24.440
<v Speaker 6>particularly good either. I would maybe argue that either the

856
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:28.039
<v Speaker 6>junk Yard fight or the flying scenes at Celestial Island

857
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:30.400
<v Speaker 6>are the best looking, but I don't know that they're

858
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:32.159
<v Speaker 6>incredibly memorable unfortunately.

859
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I think the Mexico City fight at the beginning is

860
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:37.760
<v Speaker 2>a great way to open it, and it works for me.

861
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:38.880
<v Speaker 2>That's a scene I'm going to.

862
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:42.960
<v Speaker 7>Choreography matters, right, yeah, yeah, And that's the more CG

863
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:45.199
<v Speaker 7>you get the last year thinking about that. Where you

864
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:47.119
<v Speaker 7>should I think there should still be like a normal

865
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:52.159
<v Speaker 7>fight master who choreographs the big CGI fights because the

866
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:55.280
<v Speaker 7>reason Mexico rules is because they're doing hand to hand.

867
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:56.960
<v Speaker 7>But then he's whipping his wings out to use those

868
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.639
<v Speaker 7>as extual weapons, but the wings disappear, so somebody thought

869
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:00.400
<v Speaker 7>it's an inventive.

870
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:00.920
<v Speaker 2>It's neat.

871
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:05.400
<v Speaker 7>It's not just the cherry h what is cherry bossom lane?

872
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.400
<v Speaker 7>That fight is just like a kid with action figures.

873
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:14.320
<v Speaker 2>There's like again, yeah, well, and by the same token,

874
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.679
<v Speaker 2>the fight at Celestial Island. You know, I could have

875
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:21.239
<v Speaker 2>given you a hundred bucks on somebody saying you sunk

876
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.400
<v Speaker 2>my battleship, Like it looked like a fake like board

877
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:27.960
<v Speaker 2>game in many sequences, even though the actual in air

878
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.599
<v Speaker 2>stuff I thought was really cool. Like I like the idea.

879
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I love the idea now that there are two heroes

880
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:36.639
<v Speaker 2>with mechanical wings that fly, I like that a lot.

881
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:39.599
<v Speaker 2>I need more winged things.

882
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.760
<v Speaker 4>I like that. Except when they decided to go on

883
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 4>a road trip. I didn't realize they just like fly fly.

884
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.360
<v Speaker 4>I was like, wait, weren't they the jeep, Like you're.

885
00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Going on a secret message and neither of us bring

886
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:52.280
<v Speaker 2>our equipment at all?

887
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.320
<v Speaker 5>Right, very strange.

888
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:58.000
<v Speaker 6>I had one question from the trailer, because you know

889
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.239
<v Speaker 6>that they I mean, they hid the fact that Tim

890
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:02.840
<v Speaker 6>Blake Nelson and The Leader were going to be in

891
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:06.079
<v Speaker 6>there weren't in any trailers of that. And I wanted

892
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.800
<v Speaker 6>to suggest that would the movie have made less money

893
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:11.440
<v Speaker 6>or would there be less interest in the movie if

894
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:16.480
<v Speaker 6>they had actually hid Red Hulk and promoed The Leader instead,

895
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:20.559
<v Speaker 6>because I think I actually think the response would have

896
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:23.320
<v Speaker 6>been greater if they had done that. You don't really

897
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.199
<v Speaker 6>need to see Red Hulk in the trailers to get

898
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:29.199
<v Speaker 6>people to this movie. But I think there's an argument

899
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:31.199
<v Speaker 6>to be made either way. But I think I think

900
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:35.480
<v Speaker 6>it would have been such a better reveal the whole

901
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:37.519
<v Speaker 6>story if we did not know Red Hulk was going

902
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.280
<v Speaker 6>to be in this movie and then oh, all of

903
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.800
<v Speaker 6>a sudden, unless except for all of those people who

904
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:43.840
<v Speaker 6>know it from the comics, you know this kind of thing.

905
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.920
<v Speaker 6>I think that would have been much greater and had

906
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:47.639
<v Speaker 6>a much greater impact if we did it that way.

907
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:51.199
<v Speaker 4>I completely agree. I think there's just such a energy

908
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:54.400
<v Speaker 4>and everything suck from Tim Blake Nelson, who again I

909
00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:56.960
<v Speaker 4>love that that character and the way he looked is

910
00:45:57.159 --> 00:45:59.159
<v Speaker 4>just ridiculous and he's just talking.

911
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.280
<v Speaker 2>He did answer the question by bringing him back why

912
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:06.840
<v Speaker 2>they haven't used him in seventeen years, right right, like

913
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.239
<v Speaker 2>this time will be answered the question for me about

914
00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:14.639
<v Speaker 2>why we didn't get a more contemporaneous play on the

915
00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:17.000
<v Speaker 2>heater after the incredible Hulk, Right, Mike.

916
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 7>I would say the way they bring him back also

917
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:23.960
<v Speaker 7>like creates a huge flaw in the film. It is interesting,

918
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:26.400
<v Speaker 7>especially in this day and age, just say, what if

919
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:29.760
<v Speaker 7>you can't trust your president unless you want to escape

920
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:33.599
<v Speaker 7>that thought? But and I think I'm getting older and

921
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.840
<v Speaker 7>grouch here because more and more I'm agreeing with villains

922
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:40.599
<v Speaker 7>and things I'm reading and watching. Because Tim Blake Nelson

923
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:43.960
<v Speaker 7>was tortured and lied to for seventeen years. What were

924
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:46.719
<v Speaker 7>his crimes from The Incredible Hulk? He had an accident,

925
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:49.079
<v Speaker 7>he was there, he was wrong time, wrong place, had

926
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:53.639
<v Speaker 7>an accident, but the a global leader used him for

927
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:55.719
<v Speaker 7>his benefit to but he's like, I don't want to

928
00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:58.039
<v Speaker 7>be remembered as the warmonger. It's like, no, you're more

929
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:02.519
<v Speaker 7>like warmonger plus like grab type stuff, like you're you're

930
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:04.639
<v Speaker 7>even more disgusting than we actually thought you were in

931
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:07.480
<v Speaker 7>the movie doesn't really deal with any of that.

932
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Instead, Mackie at the end is like, hey man, your

933
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:18.400
<v Speaker 2>daughter could still love you. Yeah, that is a really

934
00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:23.440
<v Speaker 2>really good point. Uh, And I I just don't. I mean,

935
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:27.599
<v Speaker 2>we'll we'll talk about the post credit later. But I'm

936
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm very curious if they're gonna if we're gonna

937
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.360
<v Speaker 2>see Tim Blake Nelson again after this movie.

938
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.320
<v Speaker 6>I mean, well, I don't want to say that, like

939
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:39.840
<v Speaker 6>I don't like him, because again I really like him,

940
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:42.800
<v Speaker 6>but he was really like him that the character was underutilized.

941
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:46.519
<v Speaker 6>I mean, it was really just a vehicle to Yeah.

942
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:49.320
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, I hope they don't use him again in

943
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:50.679
<v Speaker 6>that way. I guess that's what I'm saying.

944
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Fun to see Carl Lumley black back half of the

945
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:57.480
<v Speaker 2>TV show. I think he's fantastic. He did great. We've

946
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:01.079
<v Speaker 2>talked about gen Carlos Bosito, wonderful. Let's talk just briefly

947
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:06.400
<v Speaker 2>about Shira has as our new a new Widow. I

948
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:11.119
<v Speaker 2>don't have any comic background on the character that she

949
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.119
<v Speaker 2>is playing. What do we need to know?

950
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 7>It's Sabra is like a e tier mutant who came

951
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:26.199
<v Speaker 7>from Masad. So I think both for real world ramifications

952
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:30.960
<v Speaker 7>and for ease of how many different secret organizations there

953
00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:36.840
<v Speaker 7>are in the SCU. They're like, she's just a widow,

954
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:39.119
<v Speaker 7>like and they'd be simple of so why use her

955
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:41.320
<v Speaker 7>at all? Like there's those little things that like that's

956
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:43.360
<v Speaker 7>for like the super comic nerds. I did not know

957
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:47.039
<v Speaker 7>this character, like this is definitely me looking stuff up. Uh,

958
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:51.079
<v Speaker 7>so you get to and maybe maybe this actress can

959
00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:53.239
<v Speaker 7>really act. I saw no evidence of that.

960
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:53.840
<v Speaker 5>In this film.

961
00:48:54.239 --> 00:49:01.760
<v Speaker 2>I struggled with it because I never really found her

962
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:07.159
<v Speaker 2>physically believable in the way that I do our other

963
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:12.360
<v Speaker 2>widows in the universe. Uh, and I think I think

964
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.039
<v Speaker 2>she's She's done a lot of good work, and she's

965
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:19.199
<v Speaker 2>a talented performer. I wonder if she was miscast for

966
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:23.000
<v Speaker 2>this role, and maybe they were going for look at

967
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:27.400
<v Speaker 2>what we can do with someone at this diminutive physical frame.

968
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.559
<v Speaker 2>And I just never let myself go that I thought

969
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:34.760
<v Speaker 2>they were beating up at someone who they shouldn't be

970
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:37.400
<v Speaker 2>beating up. I just felt sorry for her all the time.

971
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.239
<v Speaker 5>I was never felt that she was a threat at all.

972
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:41.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

973
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I never felt like she was a threat, not in

974
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the way Scarlett Johansson or or in character wise.

975
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:51.320
<v Speaker 7>It was muddy because we had I think her Sasha

976
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:56.760
<v Speaker 7>Sasha Rockmore, who plays Taylor, who is like Sam's in Like,

977
00:49:56.920 --> 00:50:00.360
<v Speaker 7>so we have these two female security agents to like

978
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:03.719
<v Speaker 7>if we're if things are money streamline, but one character

979
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:04.079
<v Speaker 7>is fine.

980
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:05.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why you need both of them to exist.

981
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:08.039
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, good point.

982
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:08.920
<v Speaker 4>The score.

983
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, as we're kind of getting toward the end, I

984
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:15.239
<v Speaker 2>want to shout out the score. Laura Cartman did the score? Score? Uh,

985
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:19.400
<v Speaker 2>the score is not full of to for me anyway.

986
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Any real memorable themes that are new and novel for

987
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:26.440
<v Speaker 2>this character. I loved that we got the Mister Blue

988
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:30.199
<v Speaker 2>theme from the Incredible Hulk score for The Leader. It

989
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:32.440
<v Speaker 2>snuck in there, and I thought that was a really

990
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:36.159
<v Speaker 2>nice musical homage to that other movie.

991
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:39.559
<v Speaker 4>I thought it was soupy is the best word like

992
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:41.320
<v Speaker 4>it was a lot of times it's like it was

993
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:45.559
<v Speaker 4>just left on like that scene but they forgot to

994
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:47.360
<v Speaker 4>change the music cue and it just sort of goes

995
00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:49.760
<v Speaker 4>halfway into the next scene. A lot of times it

996
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:53.840
<v Speaker 4>was not it didn't seem related to what was going on, unfortunately,

997
00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:58.320
<v Speaker 4>but it was. It was quiet but so full. There

998
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:01.119
<v Speaker 4>was like every instrument was playing, but it's so low

999
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:03.320
<v Speaker 4>in the mix that it's just like, who is this for?

1000
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:05.760
<v Speaker 4>It's like leaving your TV on your dog?

1001
00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:09.599
<v Speaker 7>And if if we're gonna harken back to older mc

1002
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:14.079
<v Speaker 7>U and reference like songs, not score but in Winter Soldier,

1003
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:18.519
<v Speaker 7>isn't it Sam recommends, I think it's Sugarman like Phil,

1004
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:20.480
<v Speaker 7>fill this with seventies.

1005
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Funk, then make this cool with that guy.

1006
00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:25.519
<v Speaker 7>Yea similar to Guard is a Galaxy, but a very

1007
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:28.119
<v Speaker 7>different vibe. And because we've shown in the past that

1008
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:30.480
<v Speaker 7>Sam is a guy who's into music and older music,

1009
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:31.239
<v Speaker 7>so fill.

1010
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:33.519
<v Speaker 5>This with that, make it unique, give it, make it

1011
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:35.639
<v Speaker 5>his movie. That would be a great idea.

1012
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:36.400
<v Speaker 3>That we do.

1013
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Get a Kendrick Hendrick song over the closing credits, we

1014
00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:45.280
<v Speaker 2>get I I'm absolutely with you, this is you know,

1015
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:50.639
<v Speaker 2>this is a generic action score, and I missed having

1016
00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:56.119
<v Speaker 2>strong character themes in the score. That was problematic. Cinematography Kramer,

1017
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Morgan Thal Kramer, Morgan tho, we're gonna be talking about

1018
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:03.800
<v Speaker 2>more on Marvel Movie Minute next season. Kramer did for

1019
00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the Dark World. That's right, We're doing for the Dark

1020
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:10.760
<v Speaker 2>World in Marvel Movie Minute, but also Creed three, the

1021
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Creed movies and Chef Favreau's Chef, which I love very

1022
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:20.480
<v Speaker 2>very much and so like you know, Steve's word. This

1023
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:27.199
<v Speaker 2>is a strong competent cinematographer and my hunches. A lot

1024
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:30.679
<v Speaker 2>of the work got muddied in as the movie was

1025
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:31.519
<v Speaker 2>created in the edit.

1026
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:33.800
<v Speaker 6>How did you like that wrap around after the Mexico

1027
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:36.880
<v Speaker 6>fight of the two guys having a conversation for absolutely

1028
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.079
<v Speaker 6>no person a purpose at all. I mean, normally when

1029
00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:42.000
<v Speaker 6>I talk camera, I like to talk about my favorite

1030
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.360
<v Speaker 6>shot of the film, but this was so glaringly like,

1031
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:47.159
<v Speaker 6>let's just spin around two guys that are talking to

1032
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:52.320
<v Speaker 6>each other like, oh that I mean, but why though?

1033
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.400
<v Speaker 6>I mean, that's all I was saying every time a

1034
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:56.159
<v Speaker 6>shot came up.

1035
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:58.320
<v Speaker 4>In this movie. I think they ran out of time

1036
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:00.960
<v Speaker 4>in the schedule because they had to shoot every scene

1037
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:04.159
<v Speaker 4>with talking both at the actors and then from behind

1038
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:06.719
<v Speaker 4>them so they could switch out all the words. Right,

1039
00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:10.159
<v Speaker 4>there was a lot of behind the back talking when

1040
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:12.400
<v Speaker 4>the sound town's just a little bit different.

1041
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:15.639
<v Speaker 5>Oh well, yeah, yeah, that was rough.

1042
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:19.360
<v Speaker 2>I was feeling like I was channeling your adr rage, tom.

1043
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:22.800
<v Speaker 3>It felt a lot of times it felt like it

1044
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:24.840
<v Speaker 3>was shot like a TV show. I don't know, just

1045
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:26.719
<v Speaker 3>like there was not a lot of time to set

1046
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:30.239
<v Speaker 3>up stuff or take time to think about. Again, to

1047
00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:33.320
<v Speaker 3>Tommy's point about the editing, if you're gonna just you

1048
00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:35.599
<v Speaker 3>guys fight, I'm gonna put cameras in a couple of places.

1049
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:37.480
<v Speaker 3>We'll figure it out an editing instead of working with

1050
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:40.440
<v Speaker 3>the choreographer, How do I tell the story of the fight.

1051
00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:43.559
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know whose fault that is.

1052
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.119
<v Speaker 3>If that's the director should be learning that language, if

1053
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.039
<v Speaker 3>it's the cinematographer of knowing how to shoot this to

1054
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:52.519
<v Speaker 3>give the editor that footage, But it. Yeah, just felt

1055
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:55.599
<v Speaker 3>like so many scenes were just like quick and dirty.

1056
00:53:55.639 --> 00:53:56.880
<v Speaker 3>We got to shoot this, we got to move this

1057
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:59.239
<v Speaker 3>thing along very quickly. We're not taking time to think

1058
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:02.880
<v Speaker 3>about the visual language of what that's going to communicate.

1059
00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:05.239
<v Speaker 3>Because I also I felt like there was so much

1060
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:09.239
<v Speaker 3>telling not showing in this movie. We just got information.

1061
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:11.400
<v Speaker 3>We're going to show you this. There's so much talking.

1062
00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:14.159
<v Speaker 3>We just got to get this, you know, story moved

1063
00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:15.800
<v Speaker 3>along for whatever reason.

1064
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:19.320
<v Speaker 6>We talked a lot about that concept on Mandy's show

1065
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:20.960
<v Speaker 6>on The Make Me a Nerd Show when we talked

1066
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:24.599
<v Speaker 6>about the MCU, that in the MCU as a whole,

1067
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:26.800
<v Speaker 6>with all of their properties, it gets kind of muddy

1068
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.440
<v Speaker 6>the TV style versus the movie style, because we get

1069
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:33.440
<v Speaker 6>some TV series on Disney Plus that feel very cinematic

1070
00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:37.280
<v Speaker 6>and have a very high level of CGI attention in

1071
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.039
<v Speaker 6>these kind of things, and then it devolves at times

1072
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:43.440
<v Speaker 6>in weird places. In certain films and in certain series,

1073
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:47.079
<v Speaker 6>it's really scattered in terms of the quality of what

1074
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:50.440
<v Speaker 6>is cinematic and what is TV related. So I agree

1075
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:52.239
<v Speaker 6>with you, I think this one definitely fill more on

1076
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.679
<v Speaker 6>the TV side, and that's not ideal. When we're talking

1077
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:56.519
<v Speaker 6>about the film.

1078
00:54:57.039 --> 00:54:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Which is so interesting when you look at something like

1079
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:04.280
<v Speaker 2>She Hulk, which is a show that whose principal character

1080
00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:07.480
<v Speaker 2>spends most of their time in CGI mode and for

1081
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:11.920
<v Speaker 2>the most part looked great. Right that it got lost

1082
00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:13.280
<v Speaker 2>in that property, it was wonderful.

1083
00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:15.519
<v Speaker 5>It's just interesting.

1084
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:16.440
<v Speaker 2>I love to hear it.

1085
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:18.039
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, we're on that side.

1086
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:22.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go away and cue some music and

1087
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:26.679
<v Speaker 2>immediately come back reading a new bit in a slightly

1088
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:35.840
<v Speaker 2>more gravelly voice. Cue the music. In a world divided

1089
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:39.440
<v Speaker 2>by opinions, where movie lovers seek refuge from the chaos

1090
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:44.440
<v Speaker 2>of bad takes and endless reboots, one community stands as

1091
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:49.880
<v Speaker 2>a beacon of hope, the True Story FM Discord. It's

1092
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:52.280
<v Speaker 2>a gathering place for those who believe in the power

1093
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:56.119
<v Speaker 2>of film, where conversations soar higher than a leaping octagenarian

1094
00:55:56.199 --> 00:55:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Harrison Ford. And the best part, you can join for free.

1095
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Just head to the True Story dot fm slash discord

1096
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:06.800
<v Speaker 2>login page and clean your place among fellow cinephiles. And

1097
00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:09.440
<v Speaker 2>for those who want to go beyond those who can

1098
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:12.719
<v Speaker 2>hear the call to do more, there is another path.

1099
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Become a supporting member of the Next Reel's family of

1100
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.079
<v Speaker 2>film podcasts at true story dot fm slash join as

1101
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:22.760
<v Speaker 2>a member, you'll unlock exclusive Discord channels, members only, live streams,

1102
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:27.519
<v Speaker 2>early access to extended episodes in your very own podcast feed. Today,

1103
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.760
<v Speaker 2>for example, we're taking apart the post credits scene of

1104
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:34.400
<v Speaker 2>this movie in a post credit post credit conversation.

1105
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:36.320
<v Speaker 5>The choice is your soldier.

1106
00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Will you stand on the sidelines or will you step

1107
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:42.400
<v Speaker 2>up and be a part of something bigger? The next

1108
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.360
<v Speaker 2>real needs heroes like you.

1109
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:52.360
<v Speaker 5>Who was that guy?

1110
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:55.440
<v Speaker 4>Wow o? My is that the Japanese?

1111
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:56.320
<v Speaker 7>Who?

1112
00:56:59.559 --> 00:57:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Now is a point. Now that we have have churned

1113
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:06.360
<v Speaker 2>the film through our conversational meat grinder, we have to

1114
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:09.639
<v Speaker 2>rate it and we do that over on letterbox. You

1115
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:12.840
<v Speaker 2>can find true story FM's HQ page at letterbox dot com.

1116
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Slash the next reel and this is this is where

1117
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:19.519
<v Speaker 2>we make our case for the movie and where it

1118
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:24.119
<v Speaker 2>stands in our ranking. Five stars and you can add

1119
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.320
<v Speaker 2>a heart half stars count JJ I.

1120
00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:31.039
<v Speaker 6>Gave it three stars just because I was entertained. I

1121
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:34.440
<v Speaker 6>definitely wouldn't fight for the quality of this film or

1122
00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:38.280
<v Speaker 6>try to argue that it's logical or special. But in

1123
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:41.800
<v Speaker 6>a world of Marvel movies that have been generally disappointing,

1124
00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:44.679
<v Speaker 6>for me post endgame. I had fun with this and

1125
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:46.480
<v Speaker 6>it made me excited for the future. So I gave

1126
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:49.480
<v Speaker 6>it three stars out of five and a heart and

1127
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:51.320
<v Speaker 6>a heart oh thank you? Yes, Okay, I liked it.

1128
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:56.159
<v Speaker 3>Kindred Spirits all right, Steve, I you know, well, I

1129
00:57:56.199 --> 00:57:59.239
<v Speaker 3>gave this three stars, and because I did enjoy it,

1130
00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:01.079
<v Speaker 3>and as I said, if if I become a twelve

1131
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:02.920
<v Speaker 3>year old boy, I think there's a lot to enjoy.

1132
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:05.920
<v Speaker 3>I have to take aside every other movie I've seen,

1133
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:09.320
<v Speaker 3>so I can't say, oh, that witty rep oartee between

1134
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:12.679
<v Speaker 3>Falcon and you know, Bucky, you know, and I want

1135
00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:14.639
<v Speaker 3>to hold that up against George Cleaning Brad Pitt and

1136
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Ocean's Eleven.

1137
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:16.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, Oh, do you think I rushed it? You

1138
00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:17.960
<v Speaker 1>know type of thing.

1139
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:19.800
<v Speaker 2>I it's there in my head.

1140
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:21.360
<v Speaker 3>I have to take that aside and say, oh, okay,

1141
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 3>twelve year old that hasn't seen Ocean's Eleven doesn't know

1142
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:26.440
<v Speaker 3>this doesn't have that as a comparison.

1143
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, three stars.

1144
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:30.800
<v Speaker 3>I wish I could give it half a heart because

1145
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:33.639
<v Speaker 3>I feel like this movie doesn't put its heart into it,

1146
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:38.480
<v Speaker 3>so I'm not giving to the heart. I'm surprised to

1147
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:41.119
<v Speaker 3>say that, but I just felt this was empty and

1148
00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:44.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't think the movie cared about itself enough.

1149
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:48.320
<v Speaker 2>So three stars, no heart. Okay, Mike, what do you think?

1150
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:53.599
<v Speaker 7>I so badly wanted this to succeed, and the whole

1151
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:55.400
<v Speaker 7>time I was like, I could be watching Nickel Boys

1152
00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:58.119
<v Speaker 7>right now, I could be watching The Brutalist, Like real

1153
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:00.679
<v Speaker 7>films came out and I'm in the middle of the

1154
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:09.159
<v Speaker 7>day alone watching this. I think, uh, I had issues

1155
00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:11.039
<v Speaker 7>with it, but I think Falcon Wino Soldier the TV show,

1156
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:13.159
<v Speaker 7>handled all of this so much better and is a

1157
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:17.599
<v Speaker 7>more interesting to watch and had bigger capital T thoughts

1158
00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:19.960
<v Speaker 7>behind it and more care. Like you said, Steve that

1159
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:21.679
<v Speaker 7>this felt like, well we got to do it, and

1160
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.159
<v Speaker 7>JJ like you've been saying, like we gotta tie things together.

1161
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:26.559
<v Speaker 7>Who cares if it's a movie. So I'm gonna give

1162
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:27.880
<v Speaker 7>two stars.

1163
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:32.559
<v Speaker 2>Ooh nice? Okay, where do you stand on the heart? None?

1164
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:35.440
<v Speaker 2>No heart from me? If they give heart, I'd give heart.

1165
00:59:37.159 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 4>That's good.

1166
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:38.920
<v Speaker 5>That's a good measure right there.

1167
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's good, Thomas.

1168
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:43.920
<v Speaker 4>I'll sort of come right in the middle. I'm going

1169
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.840
<v Speaker 4>to say two point five stars. It doesn't work for me.

1170
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:50.480
<v Speaker 4>There were some great sequences I'm not going to give

1171
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:51.960
<v Speaker 4>it a heart, but I am going to send the

1172
00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:54.960
<v Speaker 4>heart to the director, who now after learning that the

1173
00:59:55.159 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 4>entire g and Carlo Esperanza, I don't know his name

1174
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:02.519
<v Speaker 4>by apology exposito was added later. I feel terrible for him.

1175
01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:06.679
<v Speaker 4>I can't imagine what a rough movie this was, and

1176
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:10.320
<v Speaker 4>it has Harrison form legendarily difficult to work with, and

1177
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:12.840
<v Speaker 4>so this just seems like it was probably to go

1178
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:17.199
<v Speaker 4>from the Cloverfield Paradox which I saw, to this. I

1179
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:21.679
<v Speaker 4>bet it was a living nightmare. So I give instead

1180
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:23.719
<v Speaker 4>of the movie. I do not blame him, I blame

1181
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:24.199
<v Speaker 4>the machine.

1182
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Have you seen any of Harrison Ford's pressers on this movie? No,

1183
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:29.559
<v Speaker 2>they thought anybody.

1184
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:32.440
<v Speaker 4>At one point he was like, I didn't even try

1185
01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:34.480
<v Speaker 4>to act to this one pretty much.

1186
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:39.320
<v Speaker 2>They did say, what did you think the first time

1187
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:41.800
<v Speaker 2>you saw you know, your face on Red Hulk that

1188
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:48.559
<v Speaker 2>he said, it's ridiculous, and then it stops talking, which is, yeah,

1189
01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:53.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm I am. Actually I think I am buoyed by

1190
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:57.199
<v Speaker 2>JJ's effortless optimism, and I'm right there with him. I'm

1191
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>actually giving it a heart and three stars, which is

1192
01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:03.360
<v Speaker 2>more than this movie deserves. And I need you to know.

1193
01:01:03.559 --> 01:01:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I know that I do too, but I want I

1194
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:12.000
<v Speaker 2>want more of this Captain America. I want Anthony Mackie

1195
01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:17.000
<v Speaker 2>to become an anchor in that whatever comes next. I

1196
01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:21.000
<v Speaker 2>like him, I like his work. I like the character

1197
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:25.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot. It baffles me having a Captain America with

1198
01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:28.239
<v Speaker 2>the shield and wings, Like, isn't that a little bit

1199
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:30.039
<v Speaker 2>of a hat on a hat? And we're all okay

1200
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:34.079
<v Speaker 2>with it, but it's still fun, Like it's really really fun,

1201
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:38.119
<v Speaker 2>and I want to see it when he can really

1202
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:40.360
<v Speaker 2>take some material and work with it, because he's been

1203
01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:43.079
<v Speaker 2>in movies where he's been allowed to do that, and

1204
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:46.119
<v Speaker 2>they were other Captain America movies. So let's have more

1205
01:01:46.159 --> 01:01:49.480
<v Speaker 2>of that. And so I'm going to this is I'm

1206
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:51.719
<v Speaker 2>investing in the future with this three stars and a heart.

1207
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.880
<v Speaker 2>That's it. This is an investment. It's like bitcoin, but

1208
01:01:55.159 --> 01:02:02.199
<v Speaker 2>more valuable and real. Right, So that's where we are.

1209
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Thank you guys for hanging out and talking about this movie.

1210
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Thank you everybody for hangout listening. Thank you Mike for

1211
01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:14.920
<v Speaker 2>joining us first time. I hope, I hope we haven't

1212
01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:18.960
<v Speaker 2>sullied our relationship. I hope you'll come back.

1213
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:22.239
<v Speaker 7>I don't have the movie against you guys. Thank you,

1214
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:24.559
<v Speaker 7>happy to be here, so much fun, Thank you so

1215
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:26.239
<v Speaker 7>much love talking to these even movies.

1216
01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:28.320
<v Speaker 5>I didn't love watching there you excellent.

1217
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:31.079
<v Speaker 2>I think, well we appreciated here movies.

1218
01:02:31.119 --> 01:02:36.039
<v Speaker 3>I didn't love watching for the next film the podcast movies.

1219
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:38.800
<v Speaker 4>I didn't love watching the episode one the Fightest Hours

1220
01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:40.960
<v Speaker 4>like she did.

1221
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Steeve, JJ, Tommy, Mike, Thank you all, and thank you

1222
01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:47.679
<v Speaker 2>dear listener for your time and attention. Whether you agreed

1223
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:49.800
<v Speaker 2>or disagree, or just came here to shout at your phones,

1224
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:53.239
<v Speaker 2>we appreciate you. If you had fun, don't forget to

1225
01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:55.599
<v Speaker 2>join the conversation on the discord channel true Story dot FM,

1226
01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:59.079
<v Speaker 2>slash Discord and you know we're in the last couple

1227
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:01.360
<v Speaker 2>of minutes. We haven't gone wear true Story FM Slash

1228
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:04.639
<v Speaker 2>join to become a member and support this show and

1229
01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:06.440
<v Speaker 2>all of the shows in the next real family of

1230
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:09.519
<v Speaker 2>film podcasts. Whatever you do now, watch more movies, don't

1231
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:11.679
<v Speaker 2>let them get you angry, and remember just because it

1232
01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:14.800
<v Speaker 2>has a post credit scene doesn't mean it's any good meeting.

1233
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:15.719
<v Speaker 5>How jer