1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,679 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right 3 00:00:06,719 --> 00:00:11,880 back to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG investigators. 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,519 Question are you aware of any issues with the camera 5 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:19,679 system in the shoe on August tenth, twenty nineteen. Thomas, 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,600 no question. No. Did you know if any of them 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,039 weren't recording? Thomas? I don't know. Question No. And you 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,239 never spoke with anybody about the camera system Thomas, No question. 9 00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:35,880 Did someone live monitor you all when you're in the shoe? Thomas? 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,240 I don't know. Question you don't know. Do you know 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,679 if someone is live monitoring the range of these tears? Thomas, 12 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:46,439 I don't know. Question you're not sure? Thomas, I'm not sure. 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,640 I don't think so. Question do you know how like 14 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:53,240 camera systems are set up, what they're appointing at, and 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,679 what they're supposed to be covering? Thomas? I don't. Because 16 00:00:56,719 --> 00:00:58,840 some of the tears have cameras. I mean some of 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,000 the cells have cameras. I don't know. Question when you 18 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:05,680 say some have cameras, Thomas, I couldn't tell you. Question 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,920 would that be just like ten South and then ten 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,439 South lower are the ones that have cameras? Thomas, No, 21 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,680 because some of the other tiers, some of the other 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,640 cells have cameras inside redacted question. Some of the other 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,680 cells do have cameras in them? Thomas, yes. Question, aside 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,120 from ten South and ten South Lower Thomas, yes. Question. Okay, 25 00:01:28,519 --> 00:01:32,120 what's the purpose of that? Thomas, I don't know. Just 26 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:36,879 when I came here, they had cameras. Question. Okay, so 27 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:40,359 not outside of their cells, but in their cells Thomas, 28 00:01:40,359 --> 00:01:43,599 inside of the cell yes question. Was there a camera 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,120 inside of Epstein's cell Thomas. I don't know if his 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,280 tier particularly have cameras, but I do know some of 31 00:01:50,319 --> 00:01:53,680 the tiers actually do have besides ten South lower G tier. 32 00:01:53,879 --> 00:01:56,680 If I'm not mistaken, it's either G or H, but 33 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,879 I think it's G. Yeah, G besides G and ten South. Yeah, 34 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,640 some of the other cells do have cameras in them. Question. Okay, 35 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,159 anything that you know that would capture the inside of 36 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:13,319 Epstein's cell area Thomas, No, not inside his cell question No, Thomas, 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,479 if he doesn't have a camera inside his cell. Question Okay, 38 00:02:17,719 --> 00:02:20,039 I'm going to move on to the next section. This 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,759 is about sleeping. Do you recall sleeping in the shoe 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,159 on August tenth, twenty nineteen, between the hours of twelve 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,960 am and approximately six thirty three am. Thomas, I recall 42 00:02:31,039 --> 00:02:34,240 dozing off from here and there? Yes, I do. Question. 43 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:36,719 Do you recall how long you were asleep? Thomas? No, 44 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,199 I don't question. Do you recall if Noel also slept 45 00:02:40,199 --> 00:02:43,840 on her shift? Thomas? I don't. No, I don't question. 46 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,719 So you don't know how long she was asleep for Thomas, 47 00:02:47,759 --> 00:02:50,800 I don't know. Question. Okay, were you and Noel seated 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,840 next to each other on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas, 49 00:02:55,199 --> 00:02:57,719 If you're saying seated like how me and he gets 50 00:02:57,719 --> 00:03:01,719 cut off? No, we're not seated like that. Question. How 51 00:03:01,759 --> 00:03:05,560 far away were you? Thomas? Maybe a foot two feet apart. 52 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,159 I mean it's not too far. But we're just sitting 53 00:03:08,199 --> 00:03:11,360 like right adjacent and next to each other. It's like 54 00:03:11,439 --> 00:03:14,360 how it is it's like an L shape. Question Okay, 55 00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:19,159 But I mean you're sitting with one another Thomas. Yeah. Question, 56 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:23,199 you're not like touching, but you're sitting with one another 57 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,000 in the same area, but like one person is facing 58 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,639 one way and another person is facing another way. Question Okay, 59 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,520 And you don't recall seeing Noel actually sleeping. Thomas, No, 60 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,879 I don't recall her sleeping. Question And you did those off? 61 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:44,479 You did sleep, but you don't remember about how long Thomas, 62 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,599 I do not. Question was it about two hours? Does 63 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:50,680 that sound about right? Thomas? I really couldn't tell you. 64 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:53,759 Question Okay. Do you know if you were both asleep 65 00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:57,439 at the same time? Thomas, I don't know. Question. Did 66 00:03:57,479 --> 00:04:01,719 you discuss like, hey, I'm going to sleep st Thomas, No, 67 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:06,520 we did not. Question No, okay, no discussions were had. 68 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,080 Are you authorized to sleep during your shift in the shoe? Thomas, No, 69 00:04:11,159 --> 00:04:14,840 you're not. Question Okay. Is that policy that you're not 70 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:16,839 allowed to sleep? Like, how do you know that you're 71 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,360 not authorized to sleep? Thomas, You're just not allowed to 72 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,600 sleep at work. I don't know if it's policy or not. 73 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:27,600 Question okay. And you knew at the time obviously, Thomas, yeah, 74 00:04:27,879 --> 00:04:31,680 question okay. And just to go back, you know at 75 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,959 the time you had you knew that you were falsifying 76 00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:38,000 those records at the time of the rounds counts and 77 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,399 those count slips on August ninth, when you were actually 78 00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:46,560 certifying that you knew that you're incorrectly certifying them Thomas 79 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:51,120 the count slip. Question, Yeah, Thomas, yes. Question. Okay, have 80 00:04:51,199 --> 00:04:53,959 you ever fallen asleep previously while on duty at the 81 00:04:54,040 --> 00:05:00,600 MCC Thomas, I probably have. Question yeah Thomas, yeah. Question 82 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:03,439 is that kind of like understood if you work that 83 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,959 shift that you kind of can doze off? Thomas, no answer, 84 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,560 no question. Is it a lot less active during the 85 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,920 hours of twelve am? Thomas? I mean, of course everybody's 86 00:05:14,959 --> 00:05:18,120 asleep at that time. All inmates are asleep at that time, 87 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:21,199 but it's a lot nobody is no interaction or anything 88 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,279 like that. So, I mean sometimes you get bored and 89 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,319 you know, I mean, you can sleep through that. You 90 00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:29,160 just nod a little bit. It's happened with me a 91 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,959 few times. But I mean I do get up from 92 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,600 time to time and try to drink and definitely got 93 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,360 a case of red Bull on hand from now on. 94 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,040 Question Okay, what about Noel? Have you worked with her 95 00:05:41,079 --> 00:05:44,199 in the past? Thomas, I don't remember. Maybe I have. 96 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,439 I don't know exactly. I've been here fourteen years. Question, 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,600 so do you recall her sleeping in the past? Thomas, No, 98 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,800 I don't. Question what about other people that you work with? 99 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,160 Do you recall other people that would also sleep Thomas, No, 100 00:05:59,319 --> 00:06:02,040 I can't recall it if they were sleeping or not redacted. 101 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:05,720 Question you are just taking ownership for yourself. You know 102 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,079 you fell asleep, but he gets cut off by Thomas. 103 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,399 That's it. Question Okay? Did Noel ever tried to wake 104 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:15,079 you up when you were sleeping? Thomas? I don't recall 105 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,639 question No Thomas, No, I don't think so. Question did 106 00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:23,639 anyone report that you know of? Did anyone contact you 107 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,879 to try to wake you up? If people were watching 108 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,720 you on the cameras, did anybody say hey, wake up? 109 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,480 Or did Noel ever say hey, you've got to wake up? Thomas? 110 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,279 No question. No. Where is the CEO required to be 111 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:38,959 during their shift in the shoe? Is it just all 112 00:06:38,959 --> 00:06:43,240 over the area Thomas? Yeah, question just walking around just 113 00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:47,240 within the shoe Thomas, it's just with just guess in 114 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,800 the shoe, well some other you're required to be inside 115 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,319 the shoe. Question is there always two people required to 116 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:57,879 be in the shoe at all times? Can there ever 117 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,360 be one person left alone in the shoe? Thomas, I've 118 00:07:01,399 --> 00:07:04,079 seen when it's been one person. If I'm not mistaken, 119 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,800 it's required for us to be I think a minimum 120 00:07:06,879 --> 00:07:10,879 of two question. Okay, so if you need to actually 121 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,319 leave the shoe during that shift when there's only two 122 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,600 people there, what do you do if two people are 123 00:07:16,639 --> 00:07:18,480 supposed to be there, do you have to call and 124 00:07:18,519 --> 00:07:21,959 see if someone else can come and replace you? Question? 125 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,560 If you're talking about like for emergencies, maybe of course 126 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,759 somebody has to replace you. And maybe that could be 127 00:07:28,839 --> 00:07:31,680 just shorthanded and you just left alone. But I know 128 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:35,079 sometimes we used to have to count next door. We 129 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,920 used to go count nine the ninth floor, so it 130 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,480 just varies. Question. Okay, so do you have like a 131 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,959 certain amount of time that you're allowed to leave one 132 00:07:44,959 --> 00:07:47,879 person alone, Like, for instance, if you've got to go 133 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,199 and get help with the count, are you allowed to say, hey, 134 00:07:50,279 --> 00:07:52,839 I'll be right back, and you get like a ten 135 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:57,600 minute window or anything like that. How does that work? Thomas? 136 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,480 I don't know if it's a particular number or anything 137 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,680 like that, but if you're going to go count eight, 138 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,439 or if you're going to count ten and then you're 139 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,560 going to count nine, that's no particular time question. Okay, Thomas, 140 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,879 you know what I mean. People walk different and I 141 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,759 probably walk faster than say mister Redaktid or yourself where 142 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,560 some people might be walking fast. As far as I know, 143 00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:24,920 there's no particular set time. Question. So you already said 144 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,759 you didn't leave the shoe on August tenth. Did you 145 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,720 know if Noel left the shoe at all on August tenth? Thomas, 146 00:08:32,759 --> 00:08:36,720 I don't recall. I don't remember. I don't remember. Question. 147 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,159 You just know that you were there the whole time, Thomas. 148 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,759 If I didn't count ten, I don't know if I 149 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,440 counted ten or not. I don't remember if I counted 150 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,639 ten or not. Question. Now, if you count ten, is 151 00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:51,919 that considered leaving the shoe, because isn't that count part 152 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,120 of the shoe? Thomas, I've seen. That's a different number, 153 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,679 it's a different floor. You're not inside the shoe, you're 154 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,480 inside ten South, which which is a totally different place. Question. Okay, 155 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:06,080 but you don't have to go through like control and 156 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,559 all those door locks. That's all kind of within the 157 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,679 general shoe area, Thomas. Control has to pop the door. Question. Oh, 158 00:09:13,759 --> 00:09:16,240 they do have to pop the door, Thomas. They do 159 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,279 have to pop the door for you to get inside. 160 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,159 Sam processed. You take the phone off the hook, You 161 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,559 ring the officer inside the control and he has to 162 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,600 pop the door, and then once you're out, once control 163 00:09:26,639 --> 00:09:29,679 pops that outer door, the officer inside has to open 164 00:09:29,759 --> 00:09:33,440 up the inner door. Question Okay, so it's its own 165 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,279 separate unit. Thomas. It's its own separate unit, just like 166 00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:41,200 any say, if I go to he gets cut off. 167 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,480 So there's two officers at twelve and six thirty Thomas 168 00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:48,879 cuts him off. No, it's one officer up there. Question 169 00:09:49,159 --> 00:09:52,399 there's only one officer up there, Thomas. It's one officer 170 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,360 up there, So that's why somebody has to go up 171 00:09:55,399 --> 00:10:00,879 there and count. Question Okay, is it always twelve am 172 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,919 to eight am? One of the people that are in 173 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,799 the shoe always has to assist ten South Thomas. Most 174 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,159 of the time they assist ten South, and sometimes more 175 00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:14,200 often than not, they have to assist nine North as well. 176 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,159 Question okay, and what's nine North Thomas, the unit across 177 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,360 the hall. Question is that also like a special housing 178 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,399 unit type of situation? Thomas? No, it's a regular housing unit. 179 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,759 Question Okay, but you don't know if that's against policy 180 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,799 or not. Thomas. I don't know if it's against policy 181 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,200 if you're just helping out because you're shorthanded. Question sure, Thomas, 182 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,759 short handed. Then question, all right, are you guys authorized 183 00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:42,840 when you're in the shoe to be able to access 184 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,480 the computers for your own personal reasons? Like are you 185 00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:49,879 allowed to do Internet searches and things like that limited 186 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:52,960 personal use? Thomas, I don't know if you are or 187 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,639 aren't authorized or not. But I don't know if it's 188 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,399 unauthorized or not. Question you're not even sure, Thomas, I'm not. Question. 189 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,600 They don't talk to you about like what you can 190 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,799 and can't do. Thomas. I know you're locked. You can't 191 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,200 just shoot, search Facebook or YouTube and those things are 192 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,840 not allowed on those types of computers redacted. Oh, okay, 193 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,720 you're not allowed to do like email or like Facebook. Thomas. 194 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:19,039 You can't do any of that stuff, and you can't 195 00:11:19,039 --> 00:11:21,840 access as far as I know, you can't access your 196 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,960 own personal email. You have the job email and everything 197 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:28,639 like that, and that's about it. Question Are you allowed 198 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:33,200 to do like regular internet searches though, and things like that? Thomas, 199 00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:37,440 I really don't know. Question no, Thomas, No. Question Do 200 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,799 you recall using the Internet on August tenth? Thomas, I 201 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:43,480 wrote my name and it says, yeah, I recall using 202 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,039 the Internet at the time. Question Okay, do you remember 203 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,320 what you were searching for? Thomas? On it says motorcycle? 204 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,679 Question motorcycles? All right, but do you know if that 205 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:58,360 was authorized or not authorized? Thomas? I don't know. Question, 206 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,559 So you're not sure? Okay? Are you aware if Noel 207 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,559 was also utilizing the computer? Thomas, I don't know what 208 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,600 she was on. Question No, But do you know if 209 00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:11,840 she was using the computer? Thomas, Yeah, if she was, 210 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:14,440 I don't know. Like I said, we're facing two totally 211 00:12:14,519 --> 00:12:18,559 different directions. Question sure. Do you know where you were seated, 212 00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:21,320 what desk you were seated at? Where you happen to 213 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,799 be seated at the o C desk? Thomas, there's no 214 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,840 specifically this is the OIC station and this is somebody 215 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,720 else here. It's not labeled that way. Question all right. 216 00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:35,679 The reason why I ask, I'm told that there was 217 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,879 a sign on the OIC's desk that said Epstein is 218 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,600 required to have a cell mate. So I was told 219 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,639 that the OIC had like a specific desk. Do you 220 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,519 call recall seeing that sign? Thomas? No question on any 221 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,960 of the computer or desk areas, Thomas, I don't question 222 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:57,320 that Epstein's required to have a cell mate. Thomas no, 223 00:12:57,919 --> 00:13:00,960 I don't all right. We're going to wrap up right 224 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,240 here and in the next episode dealing with the topic, 225 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,240 we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the 226 00:13:06,279 --> 00:13:09,480 information that goes with this episode can be found in 227 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:10,519 the description box.