WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.960 Do you know what real power is? It's knowing you're 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:05.719 on the same rate for energy all day, every day. 3 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.640 With a smart all Day plan from Board Gosh Energy, 4 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:11.039 save up to eight hundred and eighty euro on dual 5 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:13.519 fuel plus get a two hundred and thirty five You're 6 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:16.960 oh welcome bonus switch today at Boardgosh Energy dot I 7 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.600 E Board Gosh Energy. Know your power. 8 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:22.559 Estimated annual bill of two thousand, six hundred twenty one, 9 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.920 your new customers only thirsha percentI is kent of Smart 10 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.280 All Day electricity unit rates in twenty nine percent of gas. 11 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:29.839 You know a seaportcush Energy dot E for fulties and cs. 12 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.039 Do you know what real power is? It's knowing you're 13 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:35.799 on the same rate for energy all day, every day 14 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.719 with a smart all Day plan from Board Gosh Energy, 15 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.119 save up to eight hundred and eighty euro on dual 16 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:43.600 fuel plus get a two hundred and thirty five You're 17 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.079 oh welcome bonus switch today at Boardgosh Energy dot I 18 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:48.759 E Board Gosh Energy. 19 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.960 Know your power estimate annual bill of two thousand, six 20 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.320 hundred twenty nine your own new customers only THIRSTPERCENTI is 21 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:56.520 kent of Smart all day electricity unit rates in twenty 22 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:58.920 nine percent of gas. You know a seaportsh energy dott 23 00:00:58.920 --> 00:00:59.880 e for fulties and ces. 24 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.600 Oh hey, it's that festival bracelet you're still wearing on Monday. 25 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:06.400 Ali Ward, let's talk dogs. So in the past we've 26 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:10.159 done episodes on dogs and wolves, but this one explains 27 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.359 why a wolf is your dog. It's anthropology, it's sinology, 28 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:18.760 it's loopnology, it's ethnosinology, which is a term coined in 29 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:21.760 two thousand and two by an anthropologist named Brian Cummings. 30 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.760 In this book he wrote titled First Nations, First Dogs, 31 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.799 Canadian Aboriginal Ethnosinology and ethos Sinology is the study of 32 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:34.159 dogs within their cultural context. I love it. So for 33 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.680 years y'all have asked me to interview this particular guests. 34 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:41.719 I have been tagged in so many things and also 35 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:46.319 recommended by our experimental archaeology guest, Angelo Robletto. So this 36 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:51.159 guest handles everywhere are ethnosinology. I was game. So they 37 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:54.120 did their undergrad in anthropology at University of Tennessee at 38 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:57.120 Knoxville and got a master's inn anthropology at the University 39 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.879 of Wyoming. They are an educator with huge, huge platforms 40 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.319 on TikTok and YouTube, and they are also a professional archaeologist. 41 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:08.919 And we talk about how wolves went from the woods 42 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.240 to your bed, and we'll get to that, but first, 43 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.039 thank you to Patreon folks at patreon dot com slash 44 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.199 ologies for supporting the show for as little as a 45 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:19.639 dollar a month and submitting your questions for the ologists 46 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.360 before we record. We also, by the way, have a 47 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:26.800 show called Somologies. Those are kids safe and classroom friendly episodes. 48 00:02:26.919 --> 00:02:29.680 You can find Smologies wherever you get podcasts, just search 49 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:34.520 for it Smologies. Also thanks to everyone leaving reviews, which 50 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.039 helped the show so much. I read them all and 51 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.240 then I read you one each week, such as this 52 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.759 one from momsterus one who wrote, thank you for illuminating 53 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:45.439 so many fascinating topics, even those that seem mundane at 54 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:48.319 first are revealed to be deeply connected to the web 55 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:51.560 of life. Monstrous one the name. I love it, And 56 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:54.400 thanks to everyone who left reviews. Let's talk dogs and 57 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.800 have about me. Okay, let's curl up and be cute 58 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:02.080 as we listen about breeds of dog. What anthropological evidence 59 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:07.479 we have for doggies being our friends? How wolves domesticated themselves, 60 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:11.199 Why our relationships with canines make us what we are, 61 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:14.680 and if it's fair to ask your dog to love 62 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.960 you back? We talk corn pause and why your dog 63 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:22.000 is trying to make fetch happen? With archaeologist, anthropologist, and 64 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.319 ethno scinologist David Ian How. 65 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:44.960 My name is David Ian How he him. 66 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:50.080 And ethno sinology. We have both been tagged in so many, 67 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:53.960 so many posts to. 68 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.240 Talk to each other. Yeah, yeah, it's exciting. It's definitely 69 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:03.560 an ology. I guess technically ethnosciinology falls under umbrella of 70 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.479 anthropology to me, but I was just so into dogs 71 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:08.159 and I did a whole bunch of research and all 72 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.360 my term papers around dogs, and I was looking to see, like, 73 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.400 is there a specific study of dogs in human contexts? 74 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:17.920 So it's not like something you could major in, but 75 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.519 it technically is the Greek word for what I'm talking about. 76 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:25.639 When it came to finding mentors or professors, did you 77 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.439 have to seek out ones that were like not cat 78 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:33.480 people or particularly an interest in ushering you through this? Uh? 79 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.240 Yeah, Like I went to school for hunter gatherer archaeology 80 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:40.600 and I studied stone tools mainly. It was my thesis 81 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.720 and I wanted to go get my PhD for this specifically, 82 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.759 but there's no school that has a specific we studied 83 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.920 dog archaeology program, you know, and that's difficult. 84 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:56.319 And now that you have done this, are there other 85 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:59.160 people who message and write you all the time asking 86 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:00.360 how they can also get. 87 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:02.279 Involved in the field constantly? 88 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:04.199 Yeah, that's what I figured. 89 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:06.480 Yeah, or like where do you teach? How do I 90 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:08.360 be a student? And I was like, I don't, but 91 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:12.600 I will say. Doctor Angela Perry is an archaeologist and 92 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:16.360 she does a lot of this dog archaeology and she's 93 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.680 like a wizard with that and can do all the 94 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:22.160 genetic aspects and a lot of stuff that she publishes 95 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:24.079 is like kind of what people would want to read. 96 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:28.120 So Doctor Angela Perry is a zoo archaeologist and his 97 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:33.240 authored papers such as Dietary Variation among Indigenous Nicaraguan Horticulturists 98 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.399 and their Dogs, an ethno archaeological application of the canine 99 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:39.319 sergacy approach. Just in case you're up for some light reading, 100 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:43.120 doctor Perry is kind of the goat of canine studies now. 101 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.680 David has also authored papers such as Dogs in Native 102 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.800 American Culture and ecological and ontological approach, and on the 103 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.759 origin of our favorite subspecies, the biological implications of dog 104 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:58.439 domestication on modern humans. And he told me that his 105 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:04.920 grad school courses involved biological anthropology, linguistic anthropology, cultural anthropology, 106 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:08.759 and archaeology. But despite those variations. 107 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.439 All of my term papers in those classes were focused 108 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.360 on dogs. But doing that looking for dogs that live 109 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:17.560 around humans, you can also study all of those subjects 110 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.360 equally with dogs. And just I found so much information 111 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.439 it was overwhelming. So really, yeah, where. 112 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.160 Was that information? Was it notes from people's digs? Was 113 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:30.319 it like oral traditions passed down? Where did you find that? 114 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.480 Uh? Yeah, a lot of digs. You can find specific 115 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.839 sites that have dogs at it. But what really intrigued 116 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:41.120 me was like reading old ethnographies from you know, either 117 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.000 the French or the Spanish or the English when they 118 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.120 got here, or just the Bureau of Ethnology went out 119 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.079 in the early nineteen hundreds just documenting whatever was left 120 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:52.759 of indigenous cultures, and there's a wealth of information in 121 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:56.120 there because without the horse or cows or you know, 122 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.720 any other animals, the dog was crucial to life for 123 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.959 genous Americans here And just so much, and every culture 124 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:06.639 kind of has dogs or something that they do or 125 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:07.560 at least they live there. 126 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:10.920 When did they go from a wolf to a dog? 127 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.240 Debated topic? Uh, very debated. Let's break it down, but 128 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.360 I would say, like humans leave Africa, we get to Eurasia, 129 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.120 specifically Siberia, and you're interacting with wolves who are like 130 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:28.279 an equally social and intelligent predator, So you're going to 131 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.240 be running into each other, especially they both hunt caribou 132 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:32.480 a lot, especially in that area. 133 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:34.800 So humans and wolves are like, hey, man, what's up? 134 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.040 Like if you saw the same dude at the gym 135 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:39.959 all the time, but if the leg press at Planet 136 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.120 Fitness was a bloody reindeer in Siberia. 137 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:47.000 And I would say that whole time, like the domestication 138 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:50.560 process is happening. But we can see, like the dog 139 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:53.879 as we genetically know it today appears twenty thousand years 140 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:55.759 ago in East Asia Siberia. 141 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:59.920 When was it a dog world? Like when did pretty 142 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.959 much every continent have dogs and humans working together? 143 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.560 I guess two answers to that in that East Asia 144 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.920 Siberia area, where people are you know, domesticating dogs or 145 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:15.319 you could say wolves are self domesticating around hominid camps. 146 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.399 People then go to the Americas, either across the land 147 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:21.839 bridge or down the coast, whatever theory subscribe to. And 148 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:24.600 that's how dogs ended up in the Americas and the 149 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:28.319 only like domestic animal there until turkeys and lamas later. 150 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.759 But the rest of the world you can see dogs 151 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.559 are traded kind of like a commodity, and you can 152 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.159 see dog genetic lines being traded across Eurasia into Africa. 153 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:42.480 And to answer the question fully, I al would say, 154 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:46.360 like the Neolithic, when we go from hunting and gathering 155 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.360 to that more sedentary lifestyle with a bigger population, dogs 156 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:52.000 just kind of boom around. 157 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.519 Then what niche did dogs fill for humans that made 158 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:59.639 them such successful companions and tools for people? 159 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:02.080 And there's so much I could answer there. 160 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.919 That's like the I essentially just asked him about his 161 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.759 entire field of study, because I'm the worst. It's his fall. 162 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:08.639 He has a cool job. 163 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:12.919 Dogs eating or like I'd say, early dogs wolves eating 164 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:17.240 scraps around human cants would help deter predators in itself. 165 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:21.360 Wolves don't necessarily bark. Non domestic wolves don't bark, but 166 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:24.360 once dogs started barking, we were breeding for that. Oh, 167 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:26.000 they would alert for different predators. 168 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.240 Every time my daughter Grammy does woof, poof, woof when 169 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:34.159 we get a delivery, she's fulfilling the pact of her ancestors. 170 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.320 But certainly hunting, that's probably the first thing, because we 171 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.200 were probably finding wolves hunting and then just stealing their 172 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:43.519 kill or vice versa the wolves. We try to steal 173 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.879 a human kill, but that interaction was happening. But yeah, 174 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:52.879 hunting sentinels, like garden camps, and then especially in the Americas, 175 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:55.200 we know like dogs were being used to help pull 176 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.480 loads before the horse. They would wear little backpacks to 177 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.279 help you know, collect fish and berries and all that, 178 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.000 and in some areas they were used for their wool. 179 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.240 They're there for, I should say. And then this one's 180 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.159 always kind of dicey, but just until like you know, 181 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:13.879 nineteen eighty, dogs are kind of just eaten all over 182 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.720 the world as a food source, usually out of like 183 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:17.840 a ceremonial purpose. 184 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.960 Yeah, what types of ceremonies. I know, the line between 185 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:26.759 food and friend is so it's so cultural, it's so regional, 186 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:31.799 it's also temporal. It's odd that we eat pigs but 187 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.360 we can think of eating dogs, right. It's confusing to 188 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.559 me how confusing it is. And I'm not a vegan 189 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:40.600 or a vegetarian, but it is still super confusing to 190 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:44.240 be So what types of ceremonies were they revered enough 191 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.240 to be like a sacrifice or how did that work? 192 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.759 Yeah, there's cultures where like there's endo cannibalism, where like 193 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:55.080 you eat people within your group, or exo cannibalism is 194 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.519 eating people outside of your group. But when you're eating 195 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:59.600 within your group, it's kind of you can imagine like 196 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.360 you want that person to be part of you kind 197 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:04.320 of thing, and like that's something that happens in different 198 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:08.039 tribal cultures. And I imagine that's probably what happened with dogs, 199 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:11.240 because a lot of dogs are archaeologically when you find 200 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.480 they were kind of in their prime, maybe a little older, 201 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:15.879 so maybe they were a good hunting dog and they 202 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.840 were eaten in that sense, can't tell exactly if all 203 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.840 of them are eaten. It's like only if the cut 204 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.000 marks show up on the bones. But I know, and 205 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.240 definitely indigenous cultures, like some puppies are eaten, or I 206 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.320 think in Mexica culture, for sure, dogs were eaten out 207 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.000 of like respect for their sacrifice for people and things 208 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:35.240 like that. 209 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.159 Just trust me, you will not enjoy this aside, but 210 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:42.399 for quick factual context, A University of Minnesota article titled 211 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:46.440 Cultural Awareness for Veterinary Clinicians notes that the practice of 212 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:51.080 eating dogs is found in many Asian countries, including the Philippines, China, Korea, Vietnam, 213 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.639 and Thailand, and while the practice is not nearly as 214 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.120 prevalent as it once was, the paper says it does 215 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:59.720 continue and in general this consumption is seasonal, with most 216 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.799 meat being consumed in the winter. Now you might say, 217 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:05.679 why does that it came out so much so. In 218 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:09.159 a twenty ten book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs 219 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.720 and Wear Cows, author Melanie Joy notes that meat eating 220 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:18.120 typically involves one or more of the three ends of carnism. 221 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.639 It's normal, it's natural, or it's necessary. And researchers have 222 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:25.840 found that meat eating is trending upwards in India, which 223 00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:29.320 is typically more vegetarian, and a twenty twenty two paper 224 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.919 out of the University of Technology in Sydney titled exploring 225 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.639 meat eating practices in Mumbai and Sydney with a view 226 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:41.120 towards encouraging a reduced meat diet notes that although meat 227 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:45.279 consumption in India is relatively low. It's rising in response 228 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:50.320 to growing levels of urbanization and increasing disposable incomes and 229 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.879 exposure to new global norms. So when the norms change, 230 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:57.440 obviously cultural practice is due to and vice versa. Now 231 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.480 on the topic of Australia, that country has one of 232 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.519 the highest levels of meat consumption across the board, which 233 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.240 was news to me. I didn't know that. I just 234 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:06.679 hear that y'all have great coffee there. 235 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:06.960 Now. 236 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.159 A twenty twenty one paper title The Evolution of Urban 237 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:15.320 Australian Meat Eating Practices reports that despite these really carnivorous 238 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:20.720 leanings of Australia, twenty percent of folks identify as aspiring 239 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.279 meat reducers. So what's going on there? It explains that 240 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:30.200 changing discourses of masculinity and the move toward embracing more 241 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:35.519 fluid representations of gender have in turn changed meanings of 242 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.759 the meat eating man and a meat heavy diet. So 243 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.399 it's important to remember that our relationships to certain animals 244 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:46.799 are highly cultural and they change over time. They're changing 245 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.720 all the time. What you eat is weird and gross 246 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.759 to someone else, I guarantee every single one of us. 247 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:58.639 And when you're going through the research and looking at 248 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.559 remains of dogs and burials of dogs. Perhaps, like, when 249 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:06.600 did they start to really branch off with different breeds? 250 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:11.679 Because a shitsoo so different from a malamute. Obviously they're 251 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.720 all the same species, which is boggling to me. Yeah, 252 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:18.320 you know, they're kind of I've said before that they 253 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.639 were kind of like apps for people. It's like, you 254 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.960 need a weasel sniffer, you get this kind you need. Yeah, 255 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:28.039 some could pull your stuff, you get this kind. But 256 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:31.360 when did they start branching off into such specialized breeds. 257 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:35.200 I like that you said app because something that is 258 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.080 in the literature a lot, and this is something doctor 259 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.360 Perry talks about, is dogs are a biotechnology yep. 260 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.879 As we have mentioned in a previous episode, stubby legged 261 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.799 Doxies used to charge into badger holes and they were 262 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.279 so good at that. Yorkys were bred to be tiny 263 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.120 and to accompany miners in small places so they could 264 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.360 eat the rats. Poodles were bog dogs. They were good 265 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.879 at navigating the water to pick up hunter's dead ducks, 266 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.480 and even the Queen's Corgies once had the job of 267 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.480 herding geese. Hence they are very short. So today we 268 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:12.720 rely on apps and robots to do things for us. 269 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:14.679 But back then it was like, I need an animal 270 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:19.120 with a gangly face and no tail and bowed arms 271 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.279 for the purpose of finding and biting the village witches. 272 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.480 And they were like, cool, here you go, we bred 273 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.000 a new dog for that. Dogs are the world's most 274 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:28.000 lovable tools. 275 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:30.519 Like I would study stone tools or things like that, 276 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.440 or projectile weapons and stuff, but dogs are such a 277 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.679 versatile tool you can literally code by breeding them to 278 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.240 do different tasks. Wow. Yeah, I find that so cool. 279 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.120 But like the early tasks of hunting and guarding and 280 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.799 stuff like that. But then if you think about like 281 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.960 salukis or greyhounds are like meant for speed and racing, 282 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.919 and then docs AND's like burrow into stuff. Huskies are 283 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:56.679 a lot bigger to pull sleds and have that load bearing. 284 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.519 And then there's like livestock guardian dogs, which are bigger 285 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.600 than wolves because they have to fight wolves. That would appear, 286 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:06.919 to my knowledge like after the Neolithic, like there's a 287 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:10.600 lot of that. After ten thousand years of them being around, 288 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.679 you'll start seeing like more diverse breeds. Though the standard 289 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.159 dog probably would have looked like a dingo like thing 290 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:19.600 with that standard yellow coat. Not a wolf, but not 291 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:22.840 a dog. I have you think of ancient Mexico, they 292 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.039 had the chihuahua, the shill at quint Lay, like all 293 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.879 sorts of different dogs. But the modern breeds we have 294 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.399 is definitely like a Victorian era thing, where it's like 295 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.360 they became a status symbol. You know, the wealthy could 296 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:35.879 have very specific dogs. And even in Rome, if you 297 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.440 are a wealthy Roman citizen, you could import a fancy 298 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.279 Egyptian greyhound and show it off. Even back then, it's. 299 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:43.480 Like the French bulldogs of the ancient. 300 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:47.039 Yeah, like specific niche breeds. Yeah. 301 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:50.720 What's something that when you were studying you were really 302 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:55.039 baffled or boggled by. Was there any moment that really 303 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:56.240 shocked and surprised you? 304 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:04.680 Two things? From the anthropological like zoological perspective. Are dogs 305 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:07.720 more beneficial to humans than not? Do you need to 306 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.680 waste extra calories feeding the dogs or do they help 307 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.160 you get more calories like in a hunter gathered setting 308 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.480 than you would without them. That kind of varies depending 309 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:18.599 on where you're at in the world, and that's debated, 310 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.400 but that was interesting to me to see how different 311 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:21.880 that can be. 312 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.680 Your dog eats a sock and you're looking at like 313 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:28.480 two grand Gremy needed two teeth bolt and it cost 314 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:31.839 more than replacing a crown on my own human molar. 315 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.440 But there's no price tag on the soul of a 316 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.960 precious angel. Also, if you have working dogs like service 317 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.720 dogs or sheep hurting ones or witch nibblers, they don't 318 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.480 even get a real paycheck, And a lot of experts 319 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.079 agree that this is because they can't unionize because the 320 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.839 majority of dogs are bad at computers. 321 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:55.400 But mainly through the anthropology like cultural aspect, just seeing 322 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.759 the sheer amount of creation stories and mythologies and oral 323 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.240 of different cultures in which dogs play a role in 324 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:08.519 creation or are there present in creation or have to 325 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:12.759 do with the afterlife. Oh yeah, like Anubis an Egyptian mythology, 326 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.839 when you die, like he's the first one that meets you, 327 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:17.680 and he kind of a greets you before. He's like 328 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.000 your chaperone to get to the rest of the gods 329 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.920 in the underworld, and he holds that scale like a 330 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:26.240 dog is judging your soul, like where you're a good 331 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.440 person or a bad person, which I find great. And 332 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:30.880 then of course the three headed dog in Greek mythology, 333 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.640 he keeps people in and out of the underworld reguards it. 334 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:38.960 And in Mexica mythology, like a dog waits for you 335 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.599 across a river in the first land of the dead, 336 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.200 and then it will help you, like navigate you through 337 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:45.480 the lands of the dead, so you don't. 338 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:47.319 Have to do it alone, like the way they watch 339 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.119 from a window for you to come home from work, 340 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.680 except in a river of hell, being like you made it. 341 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:54.839 And that's very common, like different versions of that myth, 342 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.000 especially in the Americas. 343 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.440 Do you think that that's anthropological evidence that all dogs 344 00:18:59.480 --> 00:18:59.880 do go to have? 345 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:03.880 Yeah, I would think so. I just it was so 346 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:08.079 fascinating to me that like dogs are just so intrinsic 347 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.759 to human life and so symbiotic that it's not even 348 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.400 a question. They're just part of those stories. In the 349 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.039 Egyptian sense, I read a paper trying to figure this out, 350 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.519 and like jackals like to scavenge tombs and graves and 351 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.079 things like that, and in the Bible it always says 352 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:25.640 like they were fed to the dogs or like left 353 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.519 them for the dogs or left them for the wolves. 354 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.079 They always scavenged death, and like dogs came to be 355 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.759 because they were scavenging bones around our camp, So it 356 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.279 makes sense that we would associate them with some kind 357 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.079 of like it's called a psychopomp, like something that guides 358 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:43.160 you to the afterlife. Dogs are so crucial to human 359 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.039 nature and culture now that it would make sense that 360 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:48.119 if there was some kind of afterlife, dogs are there. 361 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:54.319 What about flim flam that we feel like we hear 362 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.039 a lot. I don't know if it needs debunking, but 363 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.200 like true or false, the whites of the eye of 364 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.680 a dog help us communicate with them their eyebrown muscles. 365 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:06.839 Did we breed them or did they get selected to 366 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.400 have more facial expressions that we could understand? 367 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.480 Yeah, obviously chimpanzees and bonobo's are our closest relatives in 368 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:20.000 terms of genetics. But wolves are so socially intelligent with 369 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:22.920 their you know, they show their teeth, they roll over, 370 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.640 they wag their tail, they have different barks, and they're 371 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.920 monogamous to an extent. So early humans would have noticed 372 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.920 that and probably spelt some kind of kinship with the 373 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.920 wolf in that sense. But over time, the reason we 374 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.160 could interact with each other so well was because we're 375 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.880 so social, and dogs would have picked up on our 376 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.279 social cues with their eyes and stuff as well. If 377 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.200 we think of a pug, it's basically bred to look 378 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.680 like a human face. It's flat, and they had the 379 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:55.319 big eyes. So over time it became advantageous for dogs 380 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:58.680 to understand our eye movements, and like it was bred 381 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:01.279 for on it its own as a side effect of 382 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.640 being heavily bred to be around people, but for. 383 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.400 Dogs who are working and going back to their wolfy 384 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.920 roots helping humans hunt, David says, and a. 385 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.720 Common theme I've noticed is that like while a human 386 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.720 is hunting, you and I could see a deer if 387 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.920 it's like, you know, against the wind, and we'll see 388 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.359 it before your dog sees it. But if we don't 389 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:26.960 see the deer and it's on the wind, a dog 390 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.079 will either hear it or smell it first. So you 391 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.079 can like notice your dog perk up before you see something. 392 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:35.759 And it's we both compliment each other's senses, Like our 393 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.000 site is obviously much better as primates, but their scent 394 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:43.119 and hearing is just but exponentially better than ours. So 395 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:46.000 with that in mind and just how social we are, 396 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:49.640 I would imagine if they don't already understand pointing, now 397 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:51.920 it's something that you know is it's on the way there. 398 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:57.680 What about bonding with a dog, when did it become 399 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.079 not just like a work relate should ship, but an 400 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.519 emotional bond like that? Or how are dogs different from 401 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.960