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Speaker 1: with a smart all Day plan from Board Gosh Energy,
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Speaker 3: Oh hey, it's that festival bracelet you're still wearing on Monday.
Speaker 3: Ali Ward, let's talk dogs. So in the past we've
Speaker 3: done episodes on dogs and wolves, but this one explains
Speaker 3: why a wolf is your dog. It's anthropology, it's sinology,
Speaker 3: it's loopnology, it's ethnosinology, which is a term coined in
Speaker 3: two thousand and two by an anthropologist named Brian Cummings.
Speaker 3: In this book he wrote titled First Nations, First Dogs,
Speaker 3: Canadian Aboriginal Ethnosinology and ethos Sinology is the study of
Speaker 3: dogs within their cultural context. I love it. So for
Speaker 3: years y'all have asked me to interview this particular guests.
Speaker 3: I have been tagged in so many things and also
Speaker 3: recommended by our experimental archaeology guest, Angelo Robletto. So this
Speaker 3: guest handles everywhere are ethnosinology. I was game. So they
Speaker 3: did their undergrad in anthropology at University of Tennessee at
Speaker 3: Knoxville and got a master's inn anthropology at the University
Speaker 3: of Wyoming. They are an educator with huge, huge platforms
Speaker 3: on TikTok and YouTube, and they are also a professional archaeologist.
Speaker 3: And we talk about how wolves went from the woods
Speaker 3: to your bed, and we'll get to that, but first,
Speaker 3: thank you to Patreon folks at patreon dot com slash
Speaker 3: ologies for supporting the show for as little as a
Speaker 3: dollar a month and submitting your questions for the ologists
Speaker 3: before we record. We also, by the way, have a
Speaker 3: show called Somologies. Those are kids safe and classroom friendly episodes.
Speaker 3: You can find Smologies wherever you get podcasts, just search
Speaker 3: for it Smologies. Also thanks to everyone leaving reviews, which
Speaker 3: helped the show so much. I read them all and
Speaker 3: then I read you one each week, such as this
Speaker 3: one from momsterus one who wrote, thank you for illuminating
Speaker 3: so many fascinating topics, even those that seem mundane at
Speaker 3: first are revealed to be deeply connected to the web
Speaker 3: of life. Monstrous one the name. I love it, And
Speaker 3: thanks to everyone who left reviews. Let's talk dogs and
Speaker 3: have about me. Okay, let's curl up and be cute
Speaker 3: as we listen about breeds of dog. What anthropological evidence
Speaker 3: we have for doggies being our friends? How wolves domesticated themselves,
Speaker 3: Why our relationships with canines make us what we are,
Speaker 3: and if it's fair to ask your dog to love
Speaker 3: you back? We talk corn pause and why your dog
Speaker 3: is trying to make fetch happen? With archaeologist, anthropologist, and
Speaker 3: ethno scinologist David Ian How.
Speaker 4: My name is David Ian How he him.
Speaker 3: And ethno sinology. We have both been tagged in so many,
Speaker 3: so many posts to.
Speaker 4: Talk to each other. Yeah, yeah, it's exciting. It's definitely
Speaker 4: an ology. I guess technically ethnosciinology falls under umbrella of
Speaker 4: anthropology to me, but I was just so into dogs
Speaker 4: and I did a whole bunch of research and all
Speaker 4: my term papers around dogs, and I was looking to see, like,
Speaker 4: is there a specific study of dogs in human contexts?
Speaker 4: So it's not like something you could major in, but
Speaker 4: it technically is the Greek word for what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: When it came to finding mentors or professors, did you
Speaker 3: have to seek out ones that were like not cat
Speaker 3: people or particularly an interest in ushering you through this? Uh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I went to school for hunter gatherer archaeology
Speaker 4: and I studied stone tools mainly. It was my thesis
Speaker 4: and I wanted to go get my PhD for this specifically,
Speaker 4: but there's no school that has a specific we studied
Speaker 4: dog archaeology program, you know, and that's difficult.
Speaker 3: And now that you have done this, are there other
Speaker 3: people who message and write you all the time asking
Speaker 3: how they can also get.
Speaker 4: Involved in the field constantly?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I figured.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or like where do you teach? How do I
Speaker 4: be a student? And I was like, I don't, but
Speaker 4: I will say. Doctor Angela Perry is an archaeologist and
Speaker 4: she does a lot of this dog archaeology and she's
Speaker 4: like a wizard with that and can do all the
Speaker 4: genetic aspects and a lot of stuff that she publishes
Speaker 4: is like kind of what people would want to read.
Speaker 3: So Doctor Angela Perry is a zoo archaeologist and his
Speaker 3: authored papers such as Dietary Variation among Indigenous Nicaraguan Horticulturists
Speaker 3: and their Dogs, an ethno archaeological application of the canine
Speaker 3: sergacy approach. Just in case you're up for some light reading,
Speaker 3: doctor Perry is kind of the goat of canine studies now.
Speaker 3: David has also authored papers such as Dogs in Native
Speaker 3: American Culture and ecological and ontological approach, and on the
Speaker 3: origin of our favorite subspecies, the biological implications of dog
Speaker 3: domestication on modern humans. And he told me that his
Speaker 3: grad school courses involved biological anthropology, linguistic anthropology, cultural anthropology,
Speaker 3: and archaeology. But despite those variations.
Speaker 4: All of my term papers in those classes were focused
Speaker 4: on dogs. But doing that looking for dogs that live
Speaker 4: around humans, you can also study all of those subjects
Speaker 4: equally with dogs. And just I found so much information
Speaker 4: it was overwhelming. So really, yeah, where.
Speaker 3: Was that information? Was it notes from people's digs? Was
Speaker 3: it like oral traditions passed down? Where did you find that?
Speaker 4: Uh? Yeah, a lot of digs. You can find specific
Speaker 4: sites that have dogs at it. But what really intrigued
Speaker 4: me was like reading old ethnographies from you know, either
Speaker 4: the French or the Spanish or the English when they
Speaker 4: got here, or just the Bureau of Ethnology went out
Speaker 4: in the early nineteen hundreds just documenting whatever was left
Speaker 4: of indigenous cultures, and there's a wealth of information in
Speaker 4: there because without the horse or cows or you know,
Speaker 4: any other animals, the dog was crucial to life for
Speaker 4: genous Americans here And just so much, and every culture
Speaker 4: kind of has dogs or something that they do or
Speaker 4: at least they live there.
Speaker 3: When did they go from a wolf to a dog?
Speaker 4: Debated topic? Uh, very debated. Let's break it down, but
Speaker 4: I would say, like humans leave Africa, we get to Eurasia,
Speaker 4: specifically Siberia, and you're interacting with wolves who are like
Speaker 4: an equally social and intelligent predator, So you're going to
Speaker 4: be running into each other, especially they both hunt caribou
Speaker 4: a lot, especially in that area.
Speaker 3: So humans and wolves are like, hey, man, what's up?
Speaker 3: Like if you saw the same dude at the gym
Speaker 3: all the time, but if the leg press at Planet
Speaker 3: Fitness was a bloody reindeer in Siberia.
Speaker 4: And I would say that whole time, like the domestication
Speaker 4: process is happening. But we can see, like the dog
Speaker 4: as we genetically know it today appears twenty thousand years
Speaker 4: ago in East Asia Siberia.
Speaker 3: When was it a dog world? Like when did pretty
Speaker 3: much every continent have dogs and humans working together?
Speaker 4: I guess two answers to that in that East Asia
Speaker 4: Siberia area, where people are you know, domesticating dogs or
Speaker 4: you could say wolves are self domesticating around hominid camps.
Speaker 4: People then go to the Americas, either across the land
Speaker 4: bridge or down the coast, whatever theory subscribe to. And
Speaker 4: that's how dogs ended up in the Americas and the
Speaker 4: only like domestic animal there until turkeys and lamas later.
Speaker 4: But the rest of the world you can see dogs
Speaker 4: are traded kind of like a commodity, and you can
Speaker 4: see dog genetic lines being traded across Eurasia into Africa.
Speaker 4: And to answer the question fully, I al would say,
Speaker 4: like the Neolithic, when we go from hunting and gathering
Speaker 4: to that more sedentary lifestyle with a bigger population, dogs
Speaker 4: just kind of boom around.
Speaker 3: Then what niche did dogs fill for humans that made
Speaker 3: them such successful companions and tools for people?
Speaker 4: And there's so much I could answer there.
Speaker 3: That's like the I essentially just asked him about his
Speaker 3: entire field of study, because I'm the worst. It's his fall.
Speaker 3: He has a cool job.
Speaker 4: Dogs eating or like I'd say, early dogs wolves eating
Speaker 4: scraps around human cants would help deter predators in itself.
Speaker 4: Wolves don't necessarily bark. Non domestic wolves don't bark, but
Speaker 4: once dogs started barking, we were breeding for that. Oh,
Speaker 4: they would alert for different predators.
Speaker 3: Every time my daughter Grammy does woof, poof, woof when
Speaker 3: we get a delivery, she's fulfilling the pact of her ancestors.
Speaker 4: But certainly hunting, that's probably the first thing, because we
Speaker 4: were probably finding wolves hunting and then just stealing their
Speaker 4: kill or vice versa the wolves. We try to steal
Speaker 4: a human kill, but that interaction was happening. But yeah,
Speaker 4: hunting sentinels, like garden camps, and then especially in the Americas,
Speaker 4: we know like dogs were being used to help pull
Speaker 4: loads before the horse. They would wear little backpacks to
Speaker 4: help you know, collect fish and berries and all that,
Speaker 4: and in some areas they were used for their wool.
Speaker 4: They're there for, I should say. And then this one's
Speaker 4: always kind of dicey, but just until like you know,
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty, dogs are kind of just eaten all over
Speaker 4: the world as a food source, usually out of like
Speaker 4: a ceremonial purpose.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what types of ceremonies. I know, the line between
Speaker 3: food and friend is so it's so cultural, it's so regional,
Speaker 3: it's also temporal. It's odd that we eat pigs but
Speaker 3: we can think of eating dogs, right. It's confusing to
Speaker 3: me how confusing it is. And I'm not a vegan
Speaker 3: or a vegetarian, but it is still super confusing to
Speaker 3: be So what types of ceremonies were they revered enough
Speaker 3: to be like a sacrifice or how did that work?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's cultures where like there's endo cannibalism, where like
Speaker 4: you eat people within your group, or exo cannibalism is
Speaker 4: eating people outside of your group. But when you're eating
Speaker 4: within your group, it's kind of you can imagine like
Speaker 4: you want that person to be part of you kind
Speaker 4: of thing, and like that's something that happens in different
Speaker 4: tribal cultures. And I imagine that's probably what happened with dogs,
Speaker 4: because a lot of dogs are archaeologically when you find
Speaker 4: they were kind of in their prime, maybe a little older,
Speaker 4: so maybe they were a good hunting dog and they
Speaker 4: were eaten in that sense, can't tell exactly if all
Speaker 4: of them are eaten. It's like only if the cut
Speaker 4: marks show up on the bones. But I know, and
Speaker 4: definitely indigenous cultures, like some puppies are eaten, or I
Speaker 4: think in Mexica culture, for sure, dogs were eaten out
Speaker 4: of like respect for their sacrifice for people and things
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 3: Just trust me, you will not enjoy this aside, but
Speaker 3: for quick factual context, A University of Minnesota article titled
Speaker 3: Cultural Awareness for Veterinary Clinicians notes that the practice of
Speaker 3: eating dogs is found in many Asian countries, including the Philippines, China, Korea, Vietnam,
Speaker 3: and Thailand, and while the practice is not nearly as
Speaker 3: prevalent as it once was, the paper says it does
Speaker 3: continue and in general this consumption is seasonal, with most
Speaker 3: meat being consumed in the winter. Now you might say,
Speaker 3: why does that it came out so much so. In
Speaker 3: a twenty ten book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs
Speaker 3: and Wear Cows, author Melanie Joy notes that meat eating
Speaker 3: typically involves one or more of the three ends of carnism.
Speaker 3: It's normal, it's natural, or it's necessary. And researchers have
Speaker 3: found that meat eating is trending upwards in India, which
Speaker 3: is typically more vegetarian, and a twenty twenty two paper
Speaker 3: out of the University of Technology in Sydney titled exploring
Speaker 3: meat eating practices in Mumbai and Sydney with a view
Speaker 3: towards encouraging a reduced meat diet notes that although meat
Speaker 3: consumption in India is relatively low. It's rising in response
Speaker 3: to growing levels of urbanization and increasing disposable incomes and
Speaker 3: exposure to new global norms. So when the norms change,
Speaker 3: obviously cultural practice is due to and vice versa. Now
Speaker 3: on the topic of Australia, that country has one of
Speaker 3: the highest levels of meat consumption across the board, which
Speaker 3: was news to me. I didn't know that. I just
Speaker 3: hear that y'all have great coffee there.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: A twenty twenty one paper title The Evolution of Urban
Speaker 3: Australian Meat Eating Practices reports that despite these really carnivorous
Speaker 3: leanings of Australia, twenty percent of folks identify as aspiring
Speaker 3: meat reducers. So what's going on there? It explains that
Speaker 3: changing discourses of masculinity and the move toward embracing more
Speaker 3: fluid representations of gender have in turn changed meanings of
Speaker 3: the meat eating man and a meat heavy diet. So
Speaker 3: it's important to remember that our relationships to certain animals
Speaker 3: are highly cultural and they change over time. They're changing
Speaker 3: all the time. What you eat is weird and gross
Speaker 3: to someone else, I guarantee every single one of us.
Speaker 3: And when you're going through the research and looking at
Speaker 3: remains of dogs and burials of dogs. Perhaps, like, when
Speaker 3: did they start to really branch off with different breeds?
Speaker 3: Because a shitsoo so different from a malamute. Obviously they're
Speaker 3: all the same species, which is boggling to me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, they're kind of I've said before that they
Speaker 3: were kind of like apps for people. It's like, you
Speaker 3: need a weasel sniffer, you get this kind you need. Yeah,
Speaker 3: some could pull your stuff, you get this kind. But
Speaker 3: when did they start branching off into such specialized breeds.
Speaker 4: I like that you said app because something that is
Speaker 4: in the literature a lot, and this is something doctor
Speaker 4: Perry talks about, is dogs are a biotechnology yep.
Speaker 3: As we have mentioned in a previous episode, stubby legged
Speaker 3: Doxies used to charge into badger holes and they were
Speaker 3: so good at that. Yorkys were bred to be tiny
Speaker 3: and to accompany miners in small places so they could
Speaker 3: eat the rats. Poodles were bog dogs. They were good
Speaker 3: at navigating the water to pick up hunter's dead ducks,
Speaker 3: and even the Queen's Corgies once had the job of
Speaker 3: herding geese. Hence they are very short. So today we
Speaker 3: rely on apps and robots to do things for us.
Speaker 3: But back then it was like, I need an animal
Speaker 3: with a gangly face and no tail and bowed arms
Speaker 3: for the purpose of finding and biting the village witches.
Speaker 3: And they were like, cool, here you go, we bred
Speaker 3: a new dog for that. Dogs are the world's most
Speaker 3: lovable tools.
Speaker 4: Like I would study stone tools or things like that,
Speaker 4: or projectile weapons and stuff, but dogs are such a
Speaker 4: versatile tool you can literally code by breeding them to
Speaker 4: do different tasks. Wow. Yeah, I find that so cool.
Speaker 4: But like the early tasks of hunting and guarding and
Speaker 4: stuff like that. But then if you think about like
Speaker 4: salukis or greyhounds are like meant for speed and racing,
Speaker 4: and then docs AND's like burrow into stuff. Huskies are
Speaker 4: a lot bigger to pull sleds and have that load bearing.
Speaker 4: And then there's like livestock guardian dogs, which are bigger
Speaker 4: than wolves because they have to fight wolves. That would appear,
Speaker 4: to my knowledge like after the Neolithic, like there's a
Speaker 4: lot of that. After ten thousand years of them being around,
Speaker 4: you'll start seeing like more diverse breeds. Though the standard
Speaker 4: dog probably would have looked like a dingo like thing
Speaker 4: with that standard yellow coat. Not a wolf, but not
Speaker 4: a dog. I have you think of ancient Mexico, they
Speaker 4: had the chihuahua, the shill at quint Lay, like all
Speaker 4: sorts of different dogs. But the modern breeds we have
Speaker 4: is definitely like a Victorian era thing, where it's like
Speaker 4: they became a status symbol. You know, the wealthy could
Speaker 4: have very specific dogs. And even in Rome, if you
Speaker 4: are a wealthy Roman citizen, you could import a fancy
Speaker 4: Egyptian greyhound and show it off. Even back then, it's.
Speaker 3: Like the French bulldogs of the ancient.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like specific niche breeds. Yeah.
Speaker 3: What's something that when you were studying you were really
Speaker 3: baffled or boggled by. Was there any moment that really
Speaker 3: shocked and surprised you?
Speaker 4: Two things? From the anthropological like zoological perspective. Are dogs
Speaker 4: more beneficial to humans than not? Do you need to
Speaker 4: waste extra calories feeding the dogs or do they help
Speaker 4: you get more calories like in a hunter gathered setting
Speaker 4: than you would without them. That kind of varies depending
Speaker 4: on where you're at in the world, and that's debated,
Speaker 4: but that was interesting to me to see how different
Speaker 4: that can be.
Speaker 3: Your dog eats a sock and you're looking at like
Speaker 3: two grand Gremy needed two teeth bolt and it cost
Speaker 3: more than replacing a crown on my own human molar.
Speaker 3: But there's no price tag on the soul of a
Speaker 3: precious angel. Also, if you have working dogs like service
Speaker 3: dogs or sheep hurting ones or witch nibblers, they don't
Speaker 3: even get a real paycheck, And a lot of experts
Speaker 3: agree that this is because they can't unionize because the
Speaker 3: majority of dogs are bad at computers.
Speaker 4: But mainly through the anthropology like cultural aspect, just seeing
Speaker 4: the sheer amount of creation stories and mythologies and oral
Speaker 4: of different cultures in which dogs play a role in
Speaker 4: creation or are there present in creation or have to
Speaker 4: do with the afterlife. Oh yeah, like Anubis an Egyptian mythology,
Speaker 4: when you die, like he's the first one that meets you,
Speaker 4: and he kind of a greets you before. He's like
Speaker 4: your chaperone to get to the rest of the gods
Speaker 4: in the underworld, and he holds that scale like a
Speaker 4: dog is judging your soul, like where you're a good
Speaker 4: person or a bad person, which I find great. And
Speaker 4: then of course the three headed dog in Greek mythology,
Speaker 4: he keeps people in and out of the underworld reguards it.
Speaker 4: And in Mexica mythology, like a dog waits for you
Speaker 4: across a river in the first land of the dead,
Speaker 4: and then it will help you, like navigate you through
Speaker 4: the lands of the dead, so you don't.
Speaker 3: Have to do it alone, like the way they watch
Speaker 3: from a window for you to come home from work,
Speaker 3: except in a river of hell, being like you made it.
Speaker 4: And that's very common, like different versions of that myth,
Speaker 4: especially in the Americas.
Speaker 3: Do you think that that's anthropological evidence that all dogs
Speaker 3: do go to have?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would think so. I just it was so
Speaker 4: fascinating to me that like dogs are just so intrinsic
Speaker 4: to human life and so symbiotic that it's not even
Speaker 4: a question. They're just part of those stories. In the
Speaker 4: Egyptian sense, I read a paper trying to figure this out,
Speaker 4: and like jackals like to scavenge tombs and graves and
Speaker 4: things like that, and in the Bible it always says
Speaker 4: like they were fed to the dogs or like left
Speaker 4: them for the dogs or left them for the wolves.
Speaker 4: They always scavenged death, and like dogs came to be
Speaker 4: because they were scavenging bones around our camp, So it
Speaker 4: makes sense that we would associate them with some kind
Speaker 4: of like it's called a psychopomp, like something that guides
Speaker 4: you to the afterlife. Dogs are so crucial to human
Speaker 4: nature and culture now that it would make sense that
Speaker 4: if there was some kind of afterlife, dogs are there.
Speaker 3: What about flim flam that we feel like we hear
Speaker 3: a lot. I don't know if it needs debunking, but
Speaker 3: like true or false, the whites of the eye of
Speaker 3: a dog help us communicate with them their eyebrown muscles.
Speaker 3: Did we breed them or did they get selected to
Speaker 3: have more facial expressions that we could understand?
Speaker 4: Yeah, obviously chimpanzees and bonobo's are our closest relatives in
Speaker 4: terms of genetics. But wolves are so socially intelligent with
Speaker 4: their you know, they show their teeth, they roll over,
Speaker 4: they wag their tail, they have different barks, and they're
Speaker 4: monogamous to an extent. So early humans would have noticed
Speaker 4: that and probably spelt some kind of kinship with the
Speaker 4: wolf in that sense. But over time, the reason we
Speaker 4: could interact with each other so well was because we're
Speaker 4: so social, and dogs would have picked up on our
Speaker 4: social cues with their eyes and stuff as well. If
Speaker 4: we think of a pug, it's basically bred to look
Speaker 4: like a human face. It's flat, and they had the
Speaker 4: big eyes. So over time it became advantageous for dogs
Speaker 4: to understand our eye movements, and like it was bred
Speaker 4: for on it its own as a side effect of
Speaker 4: being heavily bred to be around people, but for.
Speaker 3: Dogs who are working and going back to their wolfy
Speaker 3: roots helping humans hunt, David says, and a.
Speaker 4: Common theme I've noticed is that like while a human
Speaker 4: is hunting, you and I could see a deer if
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, against the wind, and we'll see
Speaker 4: it before your dog sees it. But if we don't
Speaker 4: see the deer and it's on the wind, a dog
Speaker 4: will either hear it or smell it first. So you
Speaker 4: can like notice your dog perk up before you see something.
Speaker 4: And it's we both compliment each other's senses, Like our
Speaker 4: site is obviously much better as primates, but their scent
Speaker 4: and hearing is just but exponentially better than ours. So
Speaker 4: with that in mind and just how social we are,
Speaker 4: I would imagine if they don't already understand pointing, now
Speaker 4: it's something that you know is it's on the way there.
Speaker 3: What about bonding with a dog, when did it become
Speaker 3: not just like a work relate should ship, but an
Speaker 3: emotional bond like that? Or how are dogs different from
Speaker 3: other animals where it might be that really close emotional
Speaker 3: bond in.
Speaker 4: The chemical sense dogs can share They release oxytocin, and
Speaker 4: we do as well when we pet them or like
Speaker 4: when we interact, because I mean, I can look at
Speaker 4: my dog right now and like make that stupid sound
Speaker 4: and like that's just your brain doing that because you
Speaker 4: look at it like a baby or an infant, and
Speaker 4: that's that you know, primate desire to care for that thing.
Speaker 4: But in terms of like in history, the first dog
Speaker 4: burial that is like known is one in Germany at
Speaker 4: a place called Bonover Castle, and it's two humans and
Speaker 4: a dog buried together. And that would be not to
Speaker 4: say that's the first one, is the first one we
Speaker 4: know of, but to me, it's like humans for a
Speaker 4: long time aren't burying each other until like roughly tens
Speaker 4: of thousand years ago, hundred thouand years ago. So when
Speaker 4: you start burying people, it's that I do of like
Speaker 4: we're human, there's probably something after or whatever and like,
Speaker 4: let's bury this person with culture and reverence, and like
Speaker 4: that's a huge milestone in human history. When you're taking
Speaker 4: that idea and then passing it on to a non
Speaker 4: human animal, that's like another step in human history like
Speaker 4: it and the dog is the first one we do
Speaker 4: that with.
Speaker 3: How did you get your dog?
Speaker 4: Uh? From a trailer park? Oh?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 4: I just yeah, I wanted a German shepherd. I wanted
Speaker 4: just like I've always wanted a German shepherd like that.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'd rather give it a good life and
Speaker 4: I can, so I did. He is definitely I've had
Speaker 4: a beagle and I've had a lab. He is like
Speaker 4: a domestic wolf more so than my other animals were.
Speaker 4: I used to think it was elitist when German shepherd
Speaker 4: people were like, you just don't understand the shepherd bond.
Speaker 4: And now I fully get it. It's a different creature.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well how is it different? How is it more
Speaker 3: like a domestic wolf.
Speaker 4: He's so intelligent and smart and I can see him
Speaker 4: thinking and he'll like trick me sometimes intil Like I
Speaker 4: don't want him to get his bone or bring it
Speaker 4: outside because he'll bury it and come back in full
Speaker 4: of dirt, but like he'll hide it in his mouth
Speaker 4: a specific way or run back in the door to
Speaker 4: get it before I can let him out. But mainly
Speaker 4: my other animals, like dogs always wanted to be pet.
Speaker 4: They like loved it and like constantly on you. He's
Speaker 4: very autonomous and he only wants to be pet when
Speaker 4: he wants to be pet. But another thing too is
Speaker 4: that when I'm hiking or skiing, he like will run
Speaker 4: to the front of the group and then run to
Speaker 4: the back of the group and just patrol and kind
Speaker 4: of search. And at night, I really want to map
Speaker 4: this out and like do some data on it because
Speaker 4: it's so fascinating. But he'll find different spots in the
Speaker 4: house to sleep at night, to get different views of
Speaker 4: each exit. But also I'm still in view, and like
Speaker 4: my beagle didn't do that. She just left in bed
Speaker 4: and snored. But he's just working. It's just so different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, are there any soapboxes that You're work makes you
Speaker 3: want to get on In terms of how we think
Speaker 3: of dogs or how we interact with them.
Speaker 4: No one's ever asked me that. It's a good question.
Speaker 3: So dogs are.
Speaker 4: Like a remnant artifact of the ice age to me
Speaker 4: like we still have from that time. We don't use
Speaker 4: stone tools so much anymore. We don't have to sell
Speaker 4: our hides and you know, live in caves. But whether
Speaker 4: you grew up in Hong Kong in a high rise
Speaker 4: and have never gone, you know, to the forest New
Speaker 4: York City Central Park's all you got things like that,
Speaker 4: Or if you're like me here in Wyoming and I'm
Speaker 4: out in the woods with my dog and like I
Speaker 4: can see if he like hears something or he alerts me,
Speaker 4: you know, we all share that peace of nature and
Speaker 4: dogs are it is an artifact of our past that
Speaker 4: we still keep with us every day. That hasn't changed well,
Speaker 4: I mean it's changed very much in terms of like
Speaker 4: Chihahwa's and wolves, but there's still like a living breathing
Speaker 4: predator that like hangs out or in our house with
Speaker 4: us and one other caveat with that too. Is like
Speaker 4: if an alien came to the planet and just saw
Speaker 4: Coco the gorilla speak to a fox and then the
Speaker 4: fox took out like Osama bin Laden, Like it's like
Speaker 4: such an absurd thing to think about, but that's dogs.
Speaker 3: We actually did an episode with speech pathologist and the
Speaker 3: founder of the dogs talking through buttons movement Christina Hunger.
Speaker 3: Her social media account is Hunger for Words. I'm sure
Speaker 3: you've seen her dog Stella press and buttons, and people
Speaker 3: tend to be divided on this. They're either like, oh,
Speaker 3: sweet Lord, baby Jesus, my dog can talk. This is
Speaker 3: the best or they're like, this is garbage. I hate
Speaker 3: what the world is doing. New research came out a
Speaker 3: few months ago from a UC San Diego paper titled
Speaker 3: how do soundboard trained dogs respond to human button presses?
Speaker 3: An investigation into word comprehension which gives us an answer
Speaker 3: you ready. It found that yes, dogs produced contextually appropriate
Speaker 3: behaviors for both play related and outside related words, and
Speaker 3: that pet dogs can be successfully taught by their owners
Speaker 3: to associate words recorded onto soundboard buttons to the outcomes
Speaker 3: in the real world. So yeah, they're really talking through
Speaker 3: those in a sense. Now, can a doodle have an
Speaker 3: existential crisis while staring into a mirror? Did you just
Speaker 3: say who this?
Speaker 5: And then look in the mirror?
Speaker 3: We don't fully know that, but in the future we
Speaker 3: might be reeling that we ever questioned their ability to
Speaker 3: be dismayed at the state of the world like we
Speaker 3: are sometimes, so be nice to dogs, be nice to animals.
Speaker 3: They have feelings and maybe one day, you know, via
Speaker 3: like a gentle brain implant, your dog will be able
Speaker 3: to cuss you out like a teenager.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's fascinating. And I know my dog thinks,
Speaker 4: and I know he like they can understand syntax in
Speaker 4: a sense and like want to go peep is It's like, yeah,
Speaker 4: he gets that. It's like several words, but he probably
Speaker 4: just hears pp.
Speaker 3: We have really great questions from listeners, and I wanted
Speaker 3: to barrage you with them. Is that cool?
Speaker 4: Yeah, by the way, this is fun.
Speaker 3: I'm so glady here. We honestly have had you on
Speaker 3: the list forever. So happy to have him. Also happy
Speaker 3: to donate of a cause of his selection. And David
Speaker 3: shows the wonderful Native American Humane dot Org, which is
Speaker 3: led by and with Native Americans, and the org explains,
Speaker 3: as Native Americans, we have shared special relationships with dogs
Speaker 3: for millennia, celebrating them in our stories, songs, and traditions,
Speaker 3: and by helping tribal families access veterinary services. Native American
Speaker 3: Humane dot Org helps people and animals live together in
Speaker 3: health and safety and a donation was made to them
Speaker 3: in honor of David and thanks to funding from sponsors
Speaker 3: of the show.
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Speaker 3: All right, patrons, let's ask your questions. You can submit
Speaker 3: yours before we record via patreon dot com sash ologies
Speaker 3: across a buck a month to join bar Big Love.
Speaker 3: All right, So, okay, I'm just going to dive in here.
Speaker 5: Valerie asked, I wonder if there is evidence for human
Speaker 5: dog interaction in all habitable regions. My name's Valerie Vanderlip
Speaker 5: and I'm in Louisville, Kentucky.
Speaker 3: Is there evidence for dog human interaction or there are
Speaker 3: some places where they didn't really do dogs?
Speaker 4: Yeah, higher latitudes, obviously there's a lot more dog and
Speaker 4: human interaction because of wolves being there, especially like in
Speaker 4: Northern Asia, East Asia, Europe and then the Basenji in
Speaker 4: Africa and all that.
Speaker 3: Okay, so where wolves live, dogs are going to evolve first,
Speaker 3: or they become domesticated and bred first.
Speaker 4: But one thing I did learn that kind of interested
Speaker 4: me was dogs don't do well in the tropics, at
Speaker 4: least back in the day. So when the Americas are
Speaker 4: being peopled by their earliest Americans going down through like
Speaker 4: the topics of Mexico and Nicaragua and all that, the
Speaker 4: dog population kind of just stops for a while, and
Speaker 4: the Inca at some point eventually have dogs in Southeast
Speaker 4: Asia and in Central America, like it is a bottleneck
Speaker 4: of like less dogs because they just don't do well
Speaker 4: in the tropics back then. Oh it is too hot,
Speaker 4: too hot, and I think diseases like drinking out of
Speaker 4: ponds and stuff might have too many bacteria or like
Speaker 4: parasites and things, because like humans can boil the water,
Speaker 4: but dogs can sneak off and still drink it, and
Speaker 4: that might be the case.
Speaker 3: Wormies just graphical worms.
Speaker 4: No bum me out.
Speaker 3: Yeah. What about coevolution?
Speaker 6: JP wants to know whether there is science to support
Speaker 6: the idea of co evolution between humans and dogs, Thanks
Speaker 6: so much, bye.
Speaker 3: Have humans evolved alongside dogs or is the timeline like
Speaker 3: we were humans and then dogs evolved after us.
Speaker 4: We are very much human in the sense that we
Speaker 4: are now. Like fifty thousand years ago, you could take
Speaker 4: somebody and put them through school and they could do
Speaker 4: the sat just fine, they could read Shakespeare like the
Speaker 4: people that were painting all the caves in France and stuff.
Speaker 4: So we were human by then and when we were
Speaker 4: interacting with dogs. I don't think there's been enough time
Speaker 4: to fully co evolve. But there are some like biological
Speaker 4: adaptations that like dogs have picked up or we've bread
Speaker 4: into them, that they have definitely co evolved with humans
Speaker 4: to say the least. And there are certain things like
Speaker 4: dogs sleeping near you, does calm you down, helps you
Speaker 4: sleep better, just petting a dog and lower your heart
Speaker 4: rate kind of stuff, so that counts.
Speaker 3: Do we know if dogs enjoy petting? Two they do, right?
Speaker 3: Do you think they always have?
Speaker 4: Some people will comment, like when I post a video
Speaker 4: of me petting my dog that like he's uncomfortable, you
Speaker 4: should stop, or like read X, Y and Z sign.
Speaker 4: But that's just my dog. But other times he'll like
Speaker 4: paw at me to keep doing it, So I guess
Speaker 4: that's the case. And then my beagle and my lab,
Speaker 4: especially my lab just like if you weren't pet here
Speaker 4: was like distraught.
Speaker 3: So yeah, typing out an angry email more fat can
Speaker 3: I interest you? In the professional science paper titled shut
Speaker 3: Up and Pet me, Domestic dogs prefer petting to vocal
Speaker 3: praise in concurrent and single alternative choice procedures. So it
Speaker 3: found that given eight three minute sessions of petting, both
Speaker 3: shelter and housed dogs preferred petting to vocal praise, and
Speaker 3: that dogs showed no evidence of satiation for petting.
Speaker 4: Please continue.
Speaker 3: The researchers postulate that petting is likely this unconditioned stimulus,
Speaker 3: and it promotes social behavior in dogs, but vocal praise
Speaker 3: likely has to be specifically conditioned. But petting is just
Speaker 3: like I love this, Now, what about me? You're asking me? Well?
Speaker 3: A twenty twenty two paper, Effects of contact with a
Speaker 3: dog on prefrontal brain activity, a controlled trial found that
Speaker 3: prefrontal brain activation in healthy subjects increased with closeness to
Speaker 3: a dog, and that hanging out with a dog stimulated
Speaker 3: more brain activity than interacting with a non living stimulus
Speaker 3: like a stuffed animal. So yes, listener, Ann, Marie everheart.
Speaker 3: Dogs tend to like being petted, and it's somewhat symbiotic.
Speaker 3: Brain feel good near dog? So did dogs evolve or
Speaker 3: were they selected to make us feel gooder and gooder
Speaker 3: over time?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 3: The twenty twenty one study current advances. An assessment of
Speaker 3: dog's emotions, facial expressions and their use for clinical recognition
Speaker 3: of pain notes that yes, domestic dogs can make facial
Speaker 3: expressions to convey their experience to us, and they can
Speaker 3: also read our face. And whale eye refers to when
Speaker 3: you can see some white of a dog's eye as
Speaker 3: it turns its head away from you, and this can
Speaker 3: express anxiety or fear or discomfort. In humans. This is
Speaker 3: called side eye. It stinky ear, it's called shade. Now,
Speaker 3: how else do dogs let us know what's on their minds?
Speaker 3: Asked Katie Oldham, Jackline Church, Lisa Gorman, Ryan Ketchem Caforia's
Speaker 3: Classroom TTL One of One, and Boys and Cheerios. First
Speaker 3: time question asker what behaviors did dogs develop because of
Speaker 3: human domestication.
Speaker 4: I've never seen too many wolves up close or wolves
Speaker 4: two twenty thousand years ago. But apparently wolves don't bark
Speaker 4: like they will when they're playing and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: But they don't bark in the sense that dogs do.
Speaker 4: Is their form of communication, and that was certainly bred
Speaker 4: in dogs as a warning bark probably first, or to
Speaker 4: indicate as an animal when you're hunting, but also just
Speaker 4: as a communicate, because I know cats meow more around humans,
Speaker 4: so it's probably the same thing. If they don't meow
Speaker 4: so much in the wild, they just do it to
Speaker 4: get our attention.
Speaker 3: That's nuts, isn't it just to think that they know
Speaker 3: that that works? Of course it does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's also cool because cats are the same thing.
Speaker 4: They're in the order Carnivora. They're a social predator the
Speaker 4: same way, and they just like we all interact so
Speaker 4: like similarly in that sense.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Lee Wang wanted to know. Someone once told
Speaker 3: me that dogs have a much more muted pain response
Speaker 3: because when they were in the process of getting domesticated,
Speaker 3: humans didn't want to take care of sick or injured dogs,
Speaker 3: and that's why we have to be really proactive about
Speaker 3: monitoring their health. Is there any way to know that
Speaker 3: about their pain response being muted?
Speaker 4: I can say, like anecdotally, with my dog, he won't
Speaker 4: let me know what he's in pain, and shepherds are
Speaker 4: notorious for being whiny m And then I know for
Speaker 4: a fact dogs in the past have like skeletal trauma,
Speaker 4: either from being kicked or you know, kicked out of
Speaker 4: camp or it's hard to tell if it was a
Speaker 4: fight with another dog or they got goreed by a
Speaker 4: bore or something. Hard to tell, but yeah, dogs had
Speaker 4: a hard life for a long time. Which yeah, significant bummer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yeah, significant bummer. That's a big as be
Speaker 3: right there. A bunch of people wanted to know about
Speaker 3: the Americas, and we did talk about that a bit bit.
Speaker 3: Adam Foot the bloated toad chown verbiage, and Grace Robischow
Speaker 3: wanted to know the blow of toad ass. What about
Speaker 3: native American dog breeds? I remember hearing somewhere that Chihuahuas
Speaker 3: are originally from the Americas. Is that true. I've also
Speaker 3: heard that there are some breeds of dog that are
Speaker 3: now essentially extinct, the line is extinct that were domesticated
Speaker 3: by Indigenous Americans or indigenous North Americans. Now any evidence
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Dogs. So when the you know, the Europeans got
Speaker 4: here to the Americas, they brought dogs with them as well.
Speaker 4: But the indigenous had dogs. But with the overwhelming amount
Speaker 4: of population of the Europeans that came here when the
Speaker 4: colonial era started, those dogs interbred with Indigenous American dogs
Speaker 4: all up and down South and North America. To the
Speaker 4: point where like the genetic lines of pre contact dogs
Speaker 4: are gone. But to my best understanding, I Chiuala is
Speaker 4: a Meso American breed, but it's been bred so many
Speaker 4: times with the European dogs, and then back to like
Speaker 4: a chiuala kind of thing that it has European DNA
Speaker 4: more than indigenous DNA, just looks like a chiuala. The
Speaker 4: sho though to the same the hairless dog in Mexico,
Speaker 4: same kind of thing. And then there's the American dingo,
Speaker 4: which is the Carolina swamp dog has some DNA still,
Speaker 4: and then the Greenland dog is like the one of
Speaker 4: the only remaining like indigenous American breeds that's left.
Speaker 3: Now, what about behaviors that have been passed down through
Speaker 3: the ages or have remained from natural wolfy instincts. Let's
Speaker 3: talk fetch, so Lori Pemberton listener notes that dogs seem
Speaker 3: to instinctively know that's a ball and is for me,
Speaker 3: And Olivia Ellison asked, is it true that it was
Speaker 3: dogs that taught us fetch? They were not alone salmon
Speaker 3: like the fish wants to know if dogs used to
Speaker 3: help gather and carry firewood, is this why they still
Speaker 3: love fetching?
Speaker 4: Sticks so much.
Speaker 3: They say that their old lab would pick up as
Speaker 3: many sticks as physically possible, sometimes around ten at a time,
Speaker 3: carry them all the way home, and then drop them
Speaker 3: on the front doorstep without fail. And they never knew
Speaker 3: if this was an instinct or just a quirk. Fetching sticks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fetch to me is a social bonding mechanism between
Speaker 4: humans and dogs. Like it bonds you. It's like dogs
Speaker 4: love play that strengthens the bond. But fetching, I believe
Speaker 4: it was a direct quirk that comes from hunting. Whereas
Speaker 4: like a dog, like if you treat an animal like
Speaker 4: you tree your raccoon, or you treat something, dogs run
Speaker 4: up to the tree and bark and like scare it
Speaker 4: until it's stuck in that spot and then the hunter
Speaker 4: can get it. Or if humans shot a bird with
Speaker 4: a shotgun or a bow back in the day and
Speaker 4: it fell, like, dogs love to go get that and
Speaker 4: bring it back. And I think that's all fetches and
Speaker 4: it's just a redirection of that because dogs are essentially
Speaker 4: around to hunt and fetch is like a good outlet
Speaker 4: for that and they just love it. Yeah, social bonding mechanism.
Speaker 3: My dog does not care about fetch at all, she refuses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my lab wouldn't either, really, Yeah, is that odd
Speaker 4: for a lab?
Speaker 6: Or like it?
Speaker 4: I have no joke. I would throw the ball and
Speaker 4: it would just like bounce off her head and to
Speaker 4: just sit there staring at me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But my shepherd he loves fetch, like to the point
Speaker 4: where it's annoying. So I found that interesting.
Speaker 3: Well, Rens wanted to know. They say people talk about
Speaker 3: inherited traits like prey drive and obedience and aggression activity
Speaker 3: level that seem to follow breeds. Is this a real
Speaker 3: phenomenon or just a correlation or false attribution because of
Speaker 3: how we socialize dogs that look a certain way, or
Speaker 3: do they really do have those traits hardwired?
Speaker 4: I would say that's definitely hardwired, because dogs are bred
Speaker 4: specifically to do certain things. Like a greyhound or a
Speaker 4: whippet wants to run, like really bad and it has
Speaker 4: to run or it's going to go mentally kind of
Speaker 4: crazy in the house. Terry are bred for ratting, like
Speaker 4: they want to find little things in rat and labs
Speaker 4: are bread to swim if I remember correctly, or retrieve
Speaker 4: and then yeah, dogs just want to do that stuff.
Speaker 4: And like my shepherd too, like he can't turn it off.
Speaker 4: I went to a lake house with my friends for
Speaker 4: a bachelor party, and the first thing he did was
Speaker 4: just go sniff every enche of the perimeter and constantly
Speaker 4: patrol like he was like having a blast. And I
Speaker 4: didn't tell him to do that, he just does it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, what if a dog's idiosyncrasies are screaming at strangers
Speaker 3: or trying to eat cats? Megan Peeler, first time question asker,
Speaker 3: asked why do people tend to be much more anxious
Speaker 3: of large dog breeds than small ones when in my experience,
Speaker 3: Meghan writes, small dogs seem much more likely to be
Speaker 3: aggressive and large dogs are often pretty chill and laid back,
Speaker 3: which was echoed by Sarah Philo and Meghan Ratcliffe. Now
Speaker 3: Janetosaur asked why all the bully breeds are basically marshmallows
Speaker 3: in a brick body. A few people asked about aggression
Speaker 3: like when it comes to dog breeds that are considered dangerous.
Speaker 3: Gayel Lane asked, i e. Pitbulls. Is this more due
Speaker 3: to how they're treated or are there truly inherent dangerous traits?
Speaker 3: Averan Keating wanted to know can you discuss pitbull origins
Speaker 3: and flimplam I see arguments all the time online where
Speaker 3: some people say pitbulls are kind nanny dogs and others
Speaker 3: who say they were bred for bull baiting and inherently violent.
Speaker 3: When it comes to stigmas of pet dogs, what's the
Speaker 3: anthropology behind that? And like, let's say, choosing a dog
Speaker 3: that would be good for your family or for your lifestyle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this one's always a sticky answer, but I'll
Speaker 4: just be honest. I think I love pipples, like They've
Speaker 4: always been sweet with me and stuff. The only dogs
Speaker 4: I've been bit by have been pipples, but that just
Speaker 4: happens to be because I sample size of two that
Speaker 4: have bit me. But I can't say as an anthropologist,
Speaker 4: like breeding dogs for specific tag like ratting or racing
Speaker 4: or things like that, that they are bred for these things,
Speaker 4: but socializing them to not do that is going to
Speaker 4: pull that out of them. From that last question, so like,
Speaker 4: I can try to socialize my dog as best I
Speaker 4: cannot to patrol the house, but he's still going to
Speaker 4: do it. So one thing I always heard was it's
Speaker 4: not the breed, it's the breeder. Pipples are sweet to me. Like,
Speaker 4: I've had so many sweet pipples in my life that
Speaker 4: I've met, and like, they're fun to play with, and
Speaker 4: so the huge head in their big mouth is so
Speaker 4: cute to me. But if the breeder is breeding them
Speaker 4: for those specific nefarious reasons or whatever their you know,
Speaker 4: origins used to be, that line of dogs might just
Speaker 4: tend to be more inherently aggressive because they're bred for
Speaker 4: But other pipples can be bred to be completely sweet.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's very sticky, I'll say that. But again,
Speaker 4: just how intrinsic dogs are in our culture in terms
Speaker 4: of like even with like a culture war, like different
Speaker 4: ethnic identities and stuff dogs are associated with.
Speaker 3: And it's it's interesting too to think if we're all
Speaker 3: well humans, but your uncle might be a dick or
Speaker 3: their uncle might be super sweet, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, It's.
Speaker 3: Like these little family not lines come down and who
Speaker 3: knows what comes up with temperament. I live in LA
Speaker 3: where pit bulls are. There's plenty of them, and they
Speaker 3: don't get adopted very often, and I know a lot
Speaker 3: of people who have them as family dogs and absolutely
Speaker 3: no problems. I know others who, you know, I have
Speaker 3: a friend who had to put down a pit bull
Speaker 3: because of an attack. So you know, it's like kind
Speaker 3: of all over the map.
Speaker 4: But shepherds can also have like behavioral issues just like that.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of shepherd rescues. Malan Wa was for
Speaker 4: sure because they're not you know, melan Wat to me
Speaker 4: is a supercomputer, Like it's just a flesh robot. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: like in terms of a biotechnology. But you know, if
Speaker 4: they're not properly exercised and like use their brains the
Speaker 4: way they're supposed to do, like, they can be aggressive.
Speaker 3: And it's not just pit bulls, but make sure that
Speaker 3: they're getting a lot of exercise and doing what they
Speaker 3: want to be doing and getting their energy out right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially in mental simulation, that could even help more
Speaker 4: than exercise. Sometimes.
Speaker 3: I have a husband like that who if he doesn't
Speaker 3: go run around, he gets not bity, but he definitely
Speaker 3: gets grumpier. It's like ADHD and not running around.
Speaker 4: I have add as well, So it's like I remember
Speaker 4: hearing that and as yeah, your husband is me.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. If he doesn't have something that it's exciting
Speaker 3: for him, he gets really grumpy. So yeah, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's all of us, you know, and if you need
Speaker 3: a wealth of free information on ADHD and My beloved
Speaker 3: husband Chaired Sleeper, you can see the three part ADHD episode,
Speaker 3: And yes we will link in the show notes. But
Speaker 3: you know, some people asked about health issues with certain breeds.
Speaker 3: Don Smallcheck wanted to know how far back in time
Speaker 3: do breed related health problems go, Like, is there any
Speaker 3: historic evidence you know, for things like hip displacia or
Speaker 3: respiratory problems with pugs and frenchchies and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: I can answer that specifically for the Americas, a lot
Speaker 4: of dogs skeletons that are found their spinal column like
Speaker 4: the oh man, my anthropology friends are gonna kill me.
Speaker 4: But I can't remember the word. But the part of
Speaker 4: the spine that sticks straight up and a dog that
Speaker 4: sticks straight up in our back, the thin part of
Speaker 4: the vertebrae spin is process. There's a lot of times
Speaker 4: it's like curved pretty badly. And I would have thought
Speaker 4: that was from wearing packs or like pulling things that
Speaker 4: causes that, you know, pathology, But another study was saying
Speaker 4: that just seems kind of natural, like over time, dogs,
Speaker 4: it'll happen to them. I will say, like the saluki
Speaker 4: is bred a long time ago, or the greyhound, and
Speaker 4: they have that giant thoracic cavity for that pulmonary system
Speaker 4: to pump the blood through its body to run fast.
Speaker 4: So if you're breeding a dog to have this giant
Speaker 4: chest to be like a race car, like if you
Speaker 4: have something so positive, there's probably also negatives back then too.
Speaker 3: Some, however, are just adorable. And Colby Evans and first
Speaker 3: time question asker Lindsay Wallace asked, is it true that
Speaker 3: beagles have white on their tails to assist humans in
Speaker 3: seeing them through the grass when they're following a scent?
Speaker 3: And thank you? Colby and Lindsay both asked that because
Speaker 3: you made me go down a metaphorical badger hole about this,
Speaker 3: And according to the twenty nineteen study true colors, commercially
Speaker 3: acquired morphological genotypes reveal hidden allele variation among dog breeds,
Speaker 3: informing both trait ancestry and breed potential. Explained, if dogs
Speaker 3: inherit one copy of a specific white spotting gene variant,
Speaker 3: they typically have some white on their feet, chest, face,
Speaker 3: and tip of the tail. But if dogs inherit two
Speaker 3: copies of this particular variant, However, then they're often mostly
Speaker 3: white with just some patches of color. So one copy
Speaker 3: they have a tuxedo shirt and socks. Two copies you
Speaker 3: name them spot now. This paper went on to explain
Speaker 3: that people historically chose dogs with white in their coats
Speaker 3: when they needed to be able to see the dogs better,
Speaker 3: and people who use dogs to hunt or retrieve game,
Speaker 3: for example, need to keep track of the dogs in
Speaker 3: heavy brush or vegetation, and white coloring makes dogs much
Speaker 3: more visible. Now, the white tail tip seen in hunting
Speaker 3: and hurting breeds, those have been given a devastatingly cute name.
Speaker 3: It's called the shepherd's lantern. A little white glow waggon
Speaker 3: around in the grass where your doggie is. It makes
Speaker 3: me physically nauseated with affection.
Speaker 4: Mine.
Speaker 3: I wanted to know when and why did humans start
Speaker 3: breeding tiny dogs that suffer their whole lives. Some people
Speaker 3: are asking about smush noses and whether or not you
Speaker 3: think that in the future humans will start breeding dogs
Speaker 3: to have longer muzzles and things like that, just to
Speaker 3: avoid health issues and vet bills.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say it's one of those like we
Speaker 4: were too worried if we could we didn't stop to
Speaker 4: think if we should kind of situations. Mm hmm, yeah,
Speaker 4: I think of which of the line. But yeah, that
Speaker 4: Victorian era, like there's just dogs of all shapes and
Speaker 4: sizes and pugs and like mastifs, like a bloodhound. And
Speaker 4: in that sense too, we just get a little over
Speaker 4: zealous with breeding to be so different that it can
Speaker 4: probably cause issues. And I know doxins too, being so
Speaker 4: long have that spine issue. I've seen a German shepherd
Speaker 4: mix with the Corgi on the internet. It's adorable, but
Speaker 4: that poor thing's hips and spine must just constantly be
Speaker 4: in pain. So I would say like the Victorian era
Speaker 4: for sure, and maybe even in Roman times.
Speaker 3: And for more on this, Kaylawhite, Aaron White, Sonia bird
Speaker 3: Man of Storm, Don Smallcheck, and Nikki g. You can
Speaker 3: see the twenty twenty three article in the Journal of
Speaker 3: Canine Medicine and Genetics bearing the ominous title brachy CEPHALICX.
Speaker 3: Once a problem is seen, it cannot be unseen, which
Speaker 3: cites this French Veterinary Association's guidance that only functionally and
Speaker 3: clinically healthy dogs with breed typical traits should be used
Speaker 3: for breeding.
Speaker 4: I e.
Speaker 3: Only breed dogs that do not suffer from any serious
Speaker 3: disease or functional disabilities, and the article also states that
Speaker 3: vets don't want to judge their clients love for certain breeds,
Speaker 3: but it predicts it in time, breeding practices will start
Speaker 3: to trend toward healthier variations on dog breeds. And even
Speaker 3: by the height of the Roman Empire, they had influencer
Speaker 3: caliber dogs like little lapdogs, greyhoundy ones obtained from the
Speaker 3: British Isles, and one absolute beast that appears to be
Speaker 3: the size of a junior varsity football player, but with
Speaker 3: a huge melon and a face that looks like a
Speaker 3: melted tire. This behemoth war dog was known as a molossus.
Speaker 3: And if you're like I want a monster to cuddle
Speaker 3: and follow around with a heavy bag of its poops,
Speaker 3: good news. Some readers are trying to resurrect it by
Speaker 3: backtracking through lines of mastiffs. I mean, is that good news?
Speaker 3: I mean, I say no, when you have so many lovable,
Speaker 3: hairy babies waiting for you in shelters, we can, versus
Speaker 3: we should. It's very on point, which is just the
Speaker 3: kind of the story of the entire human species. But
Speaker 3: Dana Owens and Aaron White wanted to know about smelling
Speaker 3: fear or smelling pregnancy. Dana Owen says, there's that saying
Speaker 3: that dogs can smell fear. Is it body language or
Speaker 3: actual chemical response? And Aaron White wanners know. If dogs
Speaker 3: can tell when you're pregnant, apparently wolves and sanctuaries can.
Speaker 3: How much can they glean about us just from scent?
Speaker 4: I saw a doc where they had people watch a
Speaker 4: horror film and then people watch like a just regular
Speaker 4: happy film and collect their sweat and then they like
Speaker 4: put that test tube up to a dog's nose, and
Speaker 4: if it was like a fear response from the horror movie,
Speaker 4: the dog kind of like freaked out and cowered a bit.
Speaker 4: And then in the other one like their tails would
Speaker 4: wag and stuff like that. So there's that. I know.
Speaker 4: Dogs can like tell one I'm anxious, like my dog
Speaker 4: does for sure, and telling you're crying and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Get yourself in front of the twenty twenty two paper.
Speaker 3: Dogs can discriminate between human baseline and psychological stress condition odors,
Speaker 3: which found that acute psychological stress response in humans changes
Speaker 3: the volatile organic compounds emanating from our breath and or sweat,
Speaker 3: and it's detectable to dogs. Dogs can smell your stress
Speaker 3: and fear on your mouth and in your sweat, And
Speaker 3: in an early twenty eighteen paper, Inner Species Transmission of
Speaker 3: Emotional information via chemo signals from humans to dogs explained
Speaker 3: that in smelling odors associated with fear, dogs display more
Speaker 3: stressful behaviors themselves, and they have higher heart rates. So
Speaker 3: can dogs figure out what's going on with you before
Speaker 3: you know or before your Instagram followers know? Probably even
Speaker 3: your pregnancy announcements? You betcha and they deserve a small,
Speaker 3: tiny piece of cheese for that, they told me.
Speaker 4: I did just see a neuroscientist say that there's a
Speaker 4: machine they've built, like an AI thing that can tell
Speaker 4: if you're pregnant and can also tell who the father is,
Speaker 4: which is wild to me, but I imagine since dogs
Speaker 4: scent receptors are so much like by the thousands, stronger
Speaker 4: than ours, that could be possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, cheaper pregnancy test probably if you could literally. Chandler
Speaker 3: Wutherington said, I've heard this theory that any dogs left
Speaker 3: on their own for long enough, after a certain number
Speaker 3: of generations will revert to default dog form with pointy ears,
Speaker 3: sandy brown, short hair, something that looks like a Carolina dog.
Speaker 3: A jaunt down a wiki hole told me any truth
Speaker 3: to that?
Speaker 4: Oh, that's what the dingo is as a domestic dog.
Speaker 4: If not a domestic dog, it was a dog that
Speaker 4: followed humans around after domestication to Australia and then once
Speaker 4: they got to Australia, realized there's a whole continent full
Speaker 4: of kangaroos without a dog like thing. The thylacine was there.
Speaker 3: That's the now extinct Tasmanian tiger. So rip we have
Speaker 3: a whole episode on Tasmanian double so if you need it,
Speaker 3: we'll put in the show notes.
Speaker 4: But Dingo's kind of pushed out the thilacine in the
Speaker 4: sense too, because they is so effective at hunting. Even
Speaker 4: introduced a dog to Australia that then became a wolf
Speaker 4: because it was just had such abundance to hunt and
Speaker 4: do all those things. And that's a standard yellow pointier duck.
Speaker 3: Are they considered native now or invasive? How is that classified?
Speaker 4: That would be a whole episode, But it's a very
Speaker 4: political and then indigenous versus you know, colonists debate and
Speaker 4: there's a lot of stigma against dingos kind of like
Speaker 4: the stigma against wolves here. But the science to me
Speaker 4: kind of says that like they've been in Australia for
Speaker 4: upwards in ten thousand years, the environment has had enough
Speaker 4: time to adjust to them, so they are kind of
Speaker 4: natural in that sense, and the same thing that indigenous
Speaker 4: Australians are natural to the area in that sense too.
Speaker 4: So I don't know, it's a very politically charged debate.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: Many of you, such as Evan Seluki have her for
Speaker 3: Ron she Boot, you new parent Karina Bruce and Jenny
Speaker 3: Rounds as well as Caforia's classroom asked about the most
Speaker 3: ancient dog breed, the most unchanged from wolves and for years,
Speaker 3: if you asked the Gettis Book of World Records, it
Speaker 3: would have pointed to the long snouted and the pony
Speaker 3: tail eared Sluki. But via this groundbreaking study in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two titled Arctic Adapted Dogs Emerged at the Pleistocene
Speaker 3: Holocene Transition, researchers found that there was a noteworthy genetic
Speaker 3: similarity between the ancient ancient dog and modern Greenland sled dogs,
Speaker 3: and it indicated that the major ancestry of modern sled
Speaker 3: dogs traces back to Siberia some ninety five hundred years
Speaker 3: ago and now. While the Victorian era produced a lot
Speaker 3: of different breeds of dogs, the throwback breeds include the Senjis,
Speaker 3: who have been depicted in African artwork going back forty
Speaker 3: five hundred years, and also the so called New World
Speaker 3: pre Columbian North American pups like the Hairless Treasures, the Zolos.
Speaker 3: But like, you probably don't know the names of all
Speaker 3: eight of your great grandparents. I mean, I dare you
Speaker 3: to try, Like, do you know the names of your
Speaker 3: great grandparents? I know three? So I'm sorry ancestors, But
Speaker 3: just like that, it's not easy for dogs to know
Speaker 3: their heritage. But people like David are looking desperately for
Speaker 3: dog remains in your research. Do you ever come across
Speaker 3: what you think are dog bones? But they're coyote bones
Speaker 3: all the time? Yeah, how did you figure that out?
Speaker 4: I get sent like is this a dog bone? And
Speaker 4: it's like probably just like a chicken wing, but they'll
Speaker 4: send it to me. But yeah, so this is a
Speaker 4: soapbox of mine? Is that species is a spectrum? It's
Speaker 4: not a cut and dry evolutions, not pokemon? Right, you
Speaker 4: don't just like evolve into the next thing ten seconds later.
Speaker 4: It takes thousands of years. So coyotes, dogs, dingoes, wolves,
Speaker 4: and some jackals are all in the genus Canus, which
Speaker 4: means they can all inner breed, and there can be
Speaker 4: dogs that are mixed with coyotes, coyotes that are mixed
Speaker 4: with wolves. All of it is just they're all like
Speaker 4: a dog is a subspecies of the wolf to me,
Speaker 4: as is the dingo. They're all wolves that can interbreed.
Speaker 4: So when you're looking at coyotes and stuff, it could
Speaker 4: be very similar to a small dog or a large dog,
Speaker 4: depending on So the answer would be you just have
Speaker 4: to have enough of a comparative collection of dogs and
Speaker 4: coyotes to kind of match it up. But there are
Speaker 4: certain markers that you can tell, Okay, this is a coyote.
Speaker 4: It's more slender than say a lab, and then wolves
Speaker 4: are going to be way more robust, especially in the Americas,
Speaker 4: so it's hard to tell. And now you can do
Speaker 4: it with chemical tests and things like that too.
Speaker 3: So several people and this may or may not fall
Speaker 3: under your research perview, but Ruben Plasmo, Minty McGhee, Sacy Pinkowitz,
Speaker 3: Harper Atlas and Jaden Gildenstern want to know what is
Speaker 3: the deal with the smell of dog pause It brings
Speaker 3: me instant joy and calm. Why do they smell like
Speaker 3: corn chips? Why do they smell like freedo's?
Speaker 4: Why?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 5: Why?
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to know.
Speaker 4: An X of mine called it puppy crack because like,
Speaker 4: it's just such an addicting smell. Apparently it's like a
Speaker 4: fungus or like something that like some kind of chemical
Speaker 4: that's emitted. But yeah, the corn, like the freedo feet,
Speaker 4: it just I love that smell. And then the inside
Speaker 4: of their ears too, is like a very distinct smell.
Speaker 3: It's like a yeasty smell that you're like, that's n.
Speaker 4: Naggi, yeah exactly, And then everyone loves their own dogs
Speaker 4: like smell. But then other people be like you dog extinct, dude,
Speaker 4: and like, no.
Speaker 2: That's not.
Speaker 3: Amazing, And yes, listener Rehnes whose special interest is dogs.
Speaker 3: They say that corn chip foot flavor is due to
Speaker 3: a combination of bacteria Pseudomonis and proteus, which combine with
Speaker 3: spit and sweat to produce a yeasty smell and a
Speaker 3: red up on it. Tends to be harmless, although those
Speaker 3: bacteria can sometimes be present in uties and dogs, and
Speaker 3: you can wipe down your pup's feet and trim the
Speaker 3: hair on the popads to keep them fresh, but in general,
Speaker 3: huffing their all myths while you spoon them should be harmless.
Speaker 3: That does make me wonder when dogs are digging around
Speaker 3: in their blankets or digging around on a flat surface
Speaker 3: that absolutely cannot be fluffed or modified at all. Our
Speaker 3: dog does that on the couch where it's like there's
Speaker 3: nothing to fluff, there's nothing to change, it's just the couch.
Speaker 3: What are they Is that an instinct from digging a
Speaker 3: bed in grass? What is that from?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, wolves make a den, coyotes make dens as well.
Speaker 4: I think that's where it comes from. I did see
Speaker 4: a study that like dogs always tear in a specific
Speaker 4: way because they want to face a certain direction, like
Speaker 4: cardinal direction, like a pigeon. I guess like they can
Speaker 4: home in a certain sense.
Speaker 3: Let's look at the twenty thirteen Frontiers in zoology. Paper
Speaker 3: dogs are sensitive to small variations of the Earth's magnetic field,
Speaker 3: which gather data on several thousand poops and piece of
Speaker 3: unleashed dogs in an open environment, and they discovered via
Speaker 3: data on these thousands of poops and peace that dogs
Speaker 3: opted to excrete with the body being aligned along the
Speaker 3: north south axis, and they avoided the east west axis
Speaker 3: of the compass for their pooping and peeing. So now
Speaker 3: you know that now. As for sleeping, some researchers note
Speaker 3: that sleeping like a sphinx with the head resting on
Speaker 3: the front paws could signal a dog wanting to nap,
Speaker 3: but still ready to jump into action if need be. Now.
Speaker 3: Sleeping on the back in dogs is associated with comfort
Speaker 3: and trust, but also with cooling off by exposing their belly,
Speaker 3: and the doughnut position can of course trap body heat.
Speaker 3: If your pope is chili and personally, when our dog
Speaker 3: rests her chin on any part of us, we freak
Speaker 3: out silently and I feel like I've been kissed by
Speaker 3: the pope, but in a good way.
Speaker 4: But I mean, my dog will spend three to six
Speaker 4: times on the bed and then decide he doesn't want
Speaker 4: to sleep on the bed and leaves it like it's
Speaker 4: just so odd.
Speaker 3: Last listener question. This is very specific, but Alib says,
Speaker 3: I taught my dog Riyah to play a toy piano
Speaker 3: for treats adorable. Sometimes it seems like she's enjoying her
Speaker 3: little tinkling little notes. Do dogs enjoy music? Do we think?
Speaker 4: I have heard that that is correct? Yeah. I can't
Speaker 4: think if it was a scientific study or like a
Speaker 4: Snapple cap fact, but I've heard that before that they
Speaker 4: do enjoy music, and like they can tell when I
Speaker 4: leave NPR on for my dog when I'm gone. So
Speaker 4: there's something going on which has music and talking calm down.
Speaker 3: And if you want studies to back this up, you
Speaker 3: can see the twenty twenty paper in the Journal Animals,
Speaker 3: and it's titled Musical Dogs, A Review of the Influences
Speaker 3: of Auditory Enrichment on Canine Health and Behavior, which mentions
Speaker 3: that in the presence of classical music, dairy cows are
Speaker 3: more chill and they produce more milk, but listening to
Speaker 3: rock music stunts the growth of hogs. Slow string music
Speaker 3: resulted in more time spent lying down for pigs, what
Speaker 3: about dogs though we're here for dogs now. The paper
Speaker 3: notes that the soundtrack of rock and heavy metal music
Speaker 3: induced undesirable behavior and physiological changes in dogs, such as
Speaker 3: increased barking, and standing up, although researchers don't know. Maybe
Speaker 3: that was just the dogs trying to thrash to some
Speaker 3: death core. Maybe they loved it now. Other studies the
Speaker 3: paper notes reported that classical music had a calming effect
Speaker 3: compared to controls, but the sound of praising words and
Speaker 3: intonation activated reward regions and dog brains. Also, playing an
Speaker 3: audiobook induced calmer behavior than classical music. So just leave
Speaker 3: this episode on repeat for them when you leave the house,
Speaker 3: because they are good boys and girls, perfect sweeties. Or
Speaker 3: let them thrash. You know your dog best.
Speaker 4: But yeah, like when I'm jamming out, he's always stoked,
Speaker 4: and sometimes dogs will howl with it and stuff.
Speaker 3: The idea of a toy piano too, was like, that's
Speaker 3: really good, that's cute. Speaking of loving it, I guess.
Speaker 3: One other question from listeners, Kristen wants to know I
Speaker 3: love my dog. Is he capable of loving me back?
Speaker 3: How would I know if he loves me? Is that quantifiable?
Speaker 3: Do you think that dogs love the indoor life and
Speaker 3: food and pets and cuddles and fresh water, or do
Speaker 3: you think that they love us?
Speaker 4: Dogs to me are like a wolf adapted to life
Speaker 4: among Homo sapiens, So like that would be how I
Speaker 4: define a dog, and in that sense, whatever life they
Speaker 4: have with a Homo sapien, like their sole existence is
Speaker 4: to interact and be close and social with humans. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I would think. So, I don't know how to quantify it,
Speaker 4: but yeah, like my dog loves me eighty six point
Speaker 4: seventy two percent repeating, So like, I don't know, but
Speaker 4: I would imagine.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you can always believe that they love you.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's free and easy.
Speaker 3: You can always set up a button for them to
Speaker 3: press or just not worry about it. Because they're not humans.
Speaker 3: We can't expect them to heal all of our wounds
Speaker 3: as much as we would like that last questions, I
Speaker 3: always ask everyone what sucks the most about your job? Like,
Speaker 3: what's the shittiest part of being an ethnocinologist. There's got
Speaker 3: to be something in.
Speaker 4: The same sense, the suckiest thing about archaeology is I
Speaker 4: will never know exactly what happened or like how dogs
Speaker 4: came to be without a time machine. And another thing too,
Speaker 4: is like we worked on a mammoth site last year
Speaker 4: where a mammoth got killed and there was a camp
Speaker 4: built around it where they were butchering it and tanning
Speaker 4: all the hides and stuff. This was in Wyoming, and
Speaker 4: if there's a big carcass of a mammoth right there,
Speaker 4: they probably either kick the dogs, get out a camp,
Speaker 4: or chain them up somewhere maybe, but you're never gonna
Speaker 4: see evidence of dogs in the middle of the activity area.
Speaker 4: So I would have to just dig shovel tests all
Speaker 4: the way around the site just hoping I found the
Speaker 4: dog bone, because they usually hang out on the outskirts
Speaker 4: of site. So the thing that sucks the most is
Speaker 4: like dogs are very hard to find archaeologically unless you
Speaker 4: just stumble upon like a burial, or you see their
Speaker 4: bones and like a trash heap from being eaten. Like
Speaker 4: the later you go into history, the more dogs you're
Speaker 4: gonna see. But way back in time, not sure, and
Speaker 4: that does I guess suck. I guess To answer the question, do.
Speaker 3: You ever have dreams that you find dog remains on
Speaker 3: a dig?
Speaker 4: My absolute pipe dream of a site would be like
Speaker 4: a human gored on a mammoth tusk, so knowing they
Speaker 4: were going at it, and then like his dog also
Speaker 4: near it, so just to confirm that all of that
Speaker 4: was going on, at the same time or her dog,
Speaker 4: you know, But yes, I do, Like everyone has their
Speaker 4: dream find like just to find a really even if
Speaker 4: it wasn't like groundbreaking, just a very nice, ornately buried dog.
Speaker 4: And you can get that connection with those people from
Speaker 4: like fourteen thousand years ago, like how much they clearly
Speaker 4: cared for this animal as well. It's just kind of
Speaker 4: humbling to me.
Speaker 3: Do you ever wake up in a cold sweat from
Speaker 3: a nightmare about being on a dig or having forgotten
Speaker 3: your tools or anything like that? Do you have stress dreams?
Speaker 3: Being an ethnosynalogy, Yeah, I think we all do.
Speaker 4: Accidentally broke a mammoth bone an accident on a dig
Speaker 4: because I was trying to like get the sand out
Speaker 4: from under it before we put the cast over it,
Speaker 4: and like for whatever reason, I just like yanked and
Speaker 4: I just split it in half. And I was like,
Speaker 4: which is fine, because you glue it and bring it
Speaker 4: back to the lab anyway. But yeah, just dreams like
Speaker 4: that where I broke something and I can't bring my
Speaker 4: dog to sight anymore because he's just so special where
Speaker 4: he like will run into the big pit of bones
Speaker 4: and like take one or lay in it, like he
Speaker 4: just doesn't get it, will the other dogs leave it alone? Yeah,
Speaker 4: in terms of nightmares, I would say that. And I
Speaker 4: also have nightmares of like giving a conference presentation. Everyone's
Speaker 4: like you're wrong.
Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah, what about the best thing about what
Speaker 3: you do?
Speaker 4: It's just so wrapped into archaeology for me. But I
Speaker 4: guess I can answer it this way. Like I studied
Speaker 4: stone tools in grad school as well for my master's,
Speaker 4: and like making stone tools and the process of that
Speaker 4: is called flint napping, and there's so much science and
Speaker 4: physics that goes into it and skill and it's kind
Speaker 4: of works the same area of your brain as chess.
Speaker 4: So like Neanderthal's made very complex stone tools Homarectus did.
Speaker 4: So to sit down and flint nap you really do
Speaker 4: get into the mind of ancient people and how intelligent
Speaker 4: they were, because like, if you've never made a stone tool,
Speaker 4: like if I handed you on right now, you wouldn't
Speaker 4: know what to do. Yeah, And like I've done it
Speaker 4: for five years now and I'm nowhere near like an
Speaker 4: expert at it, But just to sit there and be
Speaker 4: like wow. And then like if you imagine sitting around
Speaker 4: a campfire making stone tools and stuff, and then just
Speaker 4: you know, the dog's running around and things like that,
Speaker 4: like telling stories around the fire. I love anthropolo because
Speaker 4: it can get an archaeology, like I can get into
Speaker 4: the mind of somebody who lived that long ago just
Speaker 4: by like understanding their tools and dogs as an extent
Speaker 4: of that as well.
Speaker 3: Well, when's your next expedition that you're.
Speaker 4: Off on, oh Man, next summer. I think we're doing
Speaker 4: some more testing out here in Wyoming to look for
Speaker 4: more sites. Again, it's hard to just pull up a dog.
Speaker 4: You can only hope, but that would be the next
Speaker 4: big one. And then if Russia ever opens back up,
Speaker 4: I'd love to go to Siberia and just like hunt
Speaker 4: in caves for different dogs that are there dead dogs
Speaker 4: like old ancient ones. Yeah, I have a question for
Speaker 4: you if you don't mean yeah, yeah, I was asked
Speaker 4: this at the end of my podcast, but like, what
Speaker 4: do dogs mean to you? Oh? I had an answer
Speaker 4: to that.
Speaker 3: Oh. I think that's a great question for me personally.
Speaker 3: It's almost a proxy for a continuation of family. And
Speaker 3: I found out I couldn't have kids in my thirties
Speaker 3: and so I and I didn't know if I wanted
Speaker 3: kids anyway. I wasn't sure if I would be good
Speaker 3: at that. But for me, when my husband and I
Speaker 3: decided to become like life partners and get a dog
Speaker 3: like that meant a family to me in a way
Speaker 3: that I think I otherwise wouldn't experience. And you know,
Speaker 3: I think it seems silly to both of our moms
Speaker 3: that we baby our dog so much, but this is
Speaker 3: our family, like she is our child in a way,
Speaker 3: because I know I won't have one, And so as
Speaker 3: soon as I was able to get a house like
Speaker 3: that was the first thing I did. So me adopting
Speaker 3: a dog was one of my first financial goals on Patreon,
Speaker 3: and so I took a poll on Patreon of your
Speaker 3: aunt's names and a top name was Lynn. So my
Speaker 3: dog is named Gremlin or Grammy, and she bears the
Speaker 3: burden of my full obsession. I love her more than
Speaker 3: she would ever want me to. I think it's brought
Speaker 3: out a part of me that's also made me more
Speaker 3: loving to myself because I would never treat my dog
Speaker 3: the way that sometimes I would treat myself. So then
Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well, remember you're a living thing too
Speaker 3: that needs like rest and fun and play. So it's
Speaker 3: almost a mirror of the love we should show each
Speaker 3: other that we show for our dogs, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 4: I love that. That's a great answer.
Speaker 3: That's a long answer. But I never really thought about
Speaker 3: it until right now.
Speaker 4: Cool. Usually people are thrown off and have to think.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, I like that a lot. I haven't
Speaker 4: really thought about it from the surrogate child angle, you know,
Speaker 4: because my dog's kind of my son in a sense. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean it's funny too that It's like some dogs
Speaker 3: can be like a coworker and a family member and
Speaker 3: a guard A therapist, yeah, a therapist. And you know,
Speaker 3: I know this person that works in grief who says
Speaker 3: that when an animal dies, it can be more impactful
Speaker 3: to us than even a friend or family member because
Speaker 3: that animal saw every aspect of your life every day
Speaker 3: like they were there. You were there with them twenty
Speaker 3: four to seven. But it's not always understood how big
Speaker 3: of a loss that is. For more on that griefologist,
Speaker 3: you can see the anatology episode.
Speaker 4: I agree for sure. Like I remember we had to
Speaker 4: put our beagle down when I was in high school,
Speaker 4: Like my dad and I just sobbed, like at the
Speaker 4: vet place. And then three hundred came out that day,
Speaker 4: so we were like, let's just go watch through the
Speaker 4: very opposite of crying with your father. Yeah, I won't
Speaker 4: forget that because it was such like a juxtaposition day.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's brutal. Like my cat too. When I
Speaker 4: lost him, I just like wept for like three days
Speaker 4: and then I was like, okay, but I've never lost
Speaker 4: a human that close to me before yet knock on wood.
Speaker 4: So it's just like, yeah, it's tough, and that's just
Speaker 4: Ethnosynology to me too, Like they're so I keep saying intrinsic,
Speaker 4: but just part of human life that it's like inseparable
Speaker 4: in that sense.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. They really do teach you how to love
Speaker 3: on a different level without guards, you know, yeah, unconditionally, yeah,
Speaker 3: which I think a lot of people aren't able to
Speaker 3: feel that in other ways, and they teach you that
Speaker 3: that's okay, which is amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean keep looking for dog Bones because I want
Speaker 3: to know more of their backstory.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so if I know more, I'll post it.
Speaker 3: And you can follow his work on his website, which
Speaker 3: will link. You can also follow Ethnosinology on Instagram or
Speaker 3: David and how on TikTok. He has two podcasts, Ethnosynology
Speaker 3: with David ian How and The David ian Howe Show.
Speaker 3: So now you know how to find him. What about
Speaker 3: a book? Do you think you're going to do a book?
Speaker 4: I get asked all the time, Oh, you should.
Speaker 3: Do a book. Book agents get at him before someone
Speaker 3: else does. I know you're out there, I know you're listening.
Speaker 4: I appreciate you having me. Oh my god, of course,
Speaker 4: it's really fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So ask wolfy people what you're wondering, because dog
Speaker 3: on it. The world is weird and it's great, and
Speaker 3: let's focus on what's good here and there, shall we.
Speaker 3: So the charity was Native American Humane dot org. And
Speaker 3: David has also started the Strider Memorial Project and charity
Speaker 3: for his late beloved compan and that's at GoFundMe dot
Speaker 3: com slash Ethnosignology. You can find out more about Ethnosignology
Speaker 3: and David Ianhowe at Instagram dot com, slash Ethnosignology on
Speaker 3: YouTube and TikTok at davidan how And his podcast is
Speaker 3: Ethnosignology with davidan How And we'll put more links to
Speaker 3: his stuff as well as studies that we talked about
Speaker 3: on our website at aliboard dot com slash Ologies slash Ethnosignology.
Speaker 3: I'm laughing a little bit because Grammy is shaking her
Speaker 3: collar in the studio and making some noise. Normally I
Speaker 3: would just retake that, but here we are. She's an
Speaker 3: additional contributor to this episode. Also heads up, we do
Speaker 3: have classroom friendly and kids save episodes on our spinoff
Speaker 3: podcast called Smologies, which you can find wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 3: It's also linked in the show notes. Look for the
Speaker 3: new green artwork. You can also join our Patreon and
Speaker 3: submit questions before we record at patreon dot com slash
Speaker 3: Ologies for as little as a dollar a month. Ologies
Speaker 3: merch is available at ologiesmarch dot com. We have totes
Speaker 3: and shirts and sweatshirts and hats and stickers. Thank you
Speaker 3: Aaron Talbert for adminting Theologies podcast Facebook group. Thank you
Speaker 3: Evelyne Malick for making our professional transcripts. Kelly R. Dwyered
Speaker 3: is the website. The Lovely Noel Dilworth is our scheduling producer.
Speaker 3: Susan Hale top Dog is our managing director. Jake Chafey
Speaker 3: is our well tempered assistant editor. And Apex editor is
Speaker 3: Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn howled out our
Speaker 3: theme music, and if you stick around until the end
Speaker 3: of the episode, I tell you a secret, and this
Speaker 3: week it's that I was in Las Vegas for Cees
Speaker 3: to speak at a panel about the podcasting industry, and
Speaker 3: I got some yogurt and some water for my room.
Speaker 3: I was trying to fit it in the mini bar fridge,
Speaker 3: which was kind of cramped, so I took out some
Speaker 3: White Claws and Tall Boy beers and whatever was in
Speaker 3: there to jam in my Greek yogurt. And after a
Speaker 3: few minutes I saw a tiny note on the side
Speaker 3: of the fridge that everything in there was on a
Speaker 3: sensor system and you would straight up be charged for
Speaker 3: anything you lifted up. So I called the front desk
Speaker 3: to be like, hey, loel, I was just trying to
Speaker 3: refrigerate a yogurt, and they told me that if I
Speaker 3: put anything of my own in the mini fridge it
Speaker 3: would cost fifty dollars a day. And also I had
Speaker 3: racked up ninety three dollars in mini bar charges because
Speaker 3: I lifted up some cans even though I didn't drink them.
Speaker 3: So I took my yogurt out, I put the cans back,
Speaker 3: and I begged for forgiveness. Sin City, baby, where you
Speaker 3: can do anything you want except refrigerate yogurt for free,
Speaker 3: so I have learned. So make sure to hydrate regardless,
Speaker 3: take care of yourselves, and kiss your dog on the
Speaker 3: forehead for me. Okay, bybye, pacadermatology, hommeiology, ryto zoology, lithology, zechnology, meteorology, paratology, tethnology, zeriology, selinology.
Speaker 4: You're my best friend.
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