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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekaana Show.

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Thomas is here. We're going to pick up the series

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on Continental Philosophy, Part four. All right ahead, sir.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to dive in today. I mean where

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we're going to dive in today too? Is Plato. Plato's

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ill understood, ironically, because Plato's really the foundation of of

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the Western canon. Okay, famously the postmodernists, you know, if

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you know, we're talking about not not just Nietzsche, but

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you know, Heidieger, Schopenhauer, everybody, Uh, all all commentators derivative,

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they're in of that academic or intellectual canon, you know,

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they famously, Uh the famous kind of lament or critique

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of Plato is that Christianity is Platonism for the people. Okay,

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but but even they sort of pejorative is misunderstood. Okay.

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In the case of Anicheans and Nietzsche himself, it owed

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you the kind of nihilism that, in dialectical terms, you know,

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niets To believed was h the inevitable you know, outcome

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of a Platonic discourse. Other people, however, most notably Carl

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Popper and Carl Popper, his is a hugely significant figure,

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especially in terms of post Marxist liberalism, you know, post

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Marxist radicalism. I mean, you know, if if you prefer

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but the left, like the contemporary left, they view Plato

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as this sort of like proto fan just figure almost. Okay,

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Soros's ng O, his his flagship n c O is

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the Open Society Institute. That that's not just some sort

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of excidental moniker. Carl Popper, he wrote this series of

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volumes called The Open Society and Its Enemies that really

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was his kind of grand rebuttal in his view of Plato,

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or his like grand indictment of Platonic ethics and his

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grand uh you know, assault on on on Western metaphysics. Okay,

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So that, uh, that's one of the reasons I take

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exception to it. I mean there's a lot of reasons why,

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and I promise I'm not going on some primrose path tangent,

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but uh, that's one of the reasons, excepting to when

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people refer to the regimes being cultural Marxists, like they're

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they're really not, like do cultural Marxists exist, Like, yeah,

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there's a minority of of partisans who essentially abide like

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the kind of stuff that grahamsy and adorable postulated, But

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that's not that's not like when we think of like

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regime ideology, that's not what we're talking about we're very

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much talking about in brass tacks terms, Carl Popper and

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adjacent sympathetic you know, philosophical systems and paradigms and his

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big enemy, if you want to look at it in

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those terms. I'm being reductionist for the sake of coherency

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and brevity. You know, he he viewed he and they

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viewed Plato as this this this figure of a great

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of of of of a very destructive tendencies intellectually speaking,

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you know. So that's something to keep in mind. I mean,

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there's plenty of like reasons to critique Plato from the right,

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but you know, a lot of people must understand things,

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and a lot of diletant is right wingers who don't

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really understand, uh, the kind of discourse intellectual discourse around Plato.

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They they seem to really, they seem to really fail

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on this point. It's like, what exactly the right rightest

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objection is? You know, And it's again, it's not it's

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not accidental that the left despises Platonism, and it's not

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just derivative of their anti Christian posture. It's it's adjacent

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to that. But it's something to screet and so that's

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part we're gonna get into. It was probably gonna take

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two to three episodes to fully flesh this out. But notably,

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classical historiography in terms of validating or authenticating, you know,

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statements by the imputative declarant is difficult. And I'm not

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a classical scholar, and nor is would it be our

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mission anyway in terms of this series. But so when

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I speak of what's accepted as you know, indisputably according

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to the commonly accepted criteria of classical scholarship. When I

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declare what's accepted as the Platonic Dialogues, I'm abiding what

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is you know, the mainstream sensibility derivative of the aforementioned criteria. Okay,

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I'm sure people can argue at point that's not what

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I'm here to do. Okay, So again, and I don't

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proper to be a classical scholar, but there's a grant

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toll of thirty five dialogues and thirteen letters that have

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at various times been assigned to Plato as the source. Okay,

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some classical scholars doubt if any of the letters contra

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the dialogues are genuine. So we're not even gonna deal

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with those, because that's a whole complicated controversy right there,

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and it doesn't really cut to the crux of what

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we're talking about substantially anyway. But the Platonic dialogues is

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such that there's an essential consense this, you know, and

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has been for some time on what is valid and

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what is not. You know, we're gonna stick to the

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dialogues that are accepted universally as being you know, from

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the pen of Plato, as you were. And uh, Plato's

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dialogues are interesting because they're written just that they're written

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as dialogues. Plato never writes in his own voice. Now,

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there's a few ways you can interpret that, you know.

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You can interpret that as him sort of ironically acting

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as witness so that no sort of discrete thought system

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could be assigned to him, which I don't accept that.

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You can interpret it as Plato trying to kind of

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devise like a MANI literally to his hero and his

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patron Socrates, or what I think is most persuasive. You

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can read it as well. These dialogues were probably conversations

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and controversies and arguments that play to himself have borrow

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witness to and maybe he's combined certain aspects of discreet events.

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You know, maybe he's combined the personalities of certain declarance

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who are identified as the source of some of this material.

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I think he probably wanted to make this readable, you know,

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not to a mass audience, but to an educated cadre

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of men who would be you know, not just sensitive

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the you know, the importance of posterity of you know,

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athne and cultural and intellectual products, but also the kinds

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of people, the kinds of men who would be receptive,

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do you know, kind of the discursive process. And interestingly,

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in all the platemic dialogues, he's very clear about where

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this is taking place in terms of the venue. Okay,

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this is Anthens, this is Socrates pontificating, you know, but

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he there's there's no dates on these, okay, And that's significant, Okay,

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because I think that some people have said, well, obviously,

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you know, his big concern was with the conditions surrounding

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the Peloponnesian War, and he's trying to paint for us

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a picture of a culture and decline. I don't accept that.

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I mean, yes, Athens wasn't precipitous decline then, but when

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cultures are ascendant or when they're precipitously deteriorating. If you

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accept a Spanglerian paradigm, and I certainly do, that's when

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the most kind of fervent intellectual activity is going to

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be underway. Owing to reasons that should be fairly obvious.

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But I think I think he didn't want his dialogue

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to be assigned to any sort of discreete historical epoch

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within the broader paradigm of you know, the uh, the

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Athenian historical experience and uh, the Greeks were. It's interesting because,

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as Spengler himself said, you know, the Greeks didn't have

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the same sense of historical time as later Riyan derived

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civilizations did, specifically the Faustian civilization, which is literally, you know,

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men against time. Spangler suggested that the prime symbol of

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Athenian civilization was the sensuously present individual body, like perfectly proportioned,

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and you know, in one of these freezes or one

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of these sculptures or statuary, you know, the figure in

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question is situated in a high relief, a mist avoid

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you know, the immediate sort of presence of the figure

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in question, who's symbolic of the culture that is the

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project of him is what's most significant. You know, there's

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not this fixation with the past or the future. And

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again I'm not a classic scholar or some sort of

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expert in pre Christian metaphysics, but i do know that

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the Greeks had an understanding of the universe. Their epistemology

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at grand scale was that, you know, reality is perennial.

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It has no beginning or end, you know, And this

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is important. It's not just a kind of trivia that

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is compelling or that has esthetic sorts of you know,

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qualities that lend insight into the cultural mind. This is

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actually important. But bringing it back a little bit to

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political philosophy specifically, Plato is hugely important on account discreetly

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of three dialogues. Those are the Republic, the Statesmen, and

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the Laws, the titles of which should be fairly self explanatory.

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You know, arguably pretty much everything that Plato, pretty much

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all the dialogues that we can according to the terms

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again of of commonly accepted evidentiary criteria, the dialogues we

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can indisputably assigned to him. Arguably all those partake of

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political subject matter, but those relating directly and unqualifiedly with

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the political or the three that I just mentioned. Okay,

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the subject matter of the republic, which is most significant

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in terms of political ontology as well as in terms

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of ethics, what constitutes a good society and thus you know,

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like a good police. And again, to be clear, there

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was no concept of state in in Doric Ethens, you know, arguably,

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and this is about outside the scope even the later

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medieval era. In the early modern period, the concept of

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the state as we think of it didn't exist. However,

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at least the primitive architecture in conceptual terms of it

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existed in the modern period. In the ancient world, that

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was not even something that could be apprehended. It just

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simply didn't exist, Okay, And that's one of many one

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of myriad reasons why it's completely misplaced. When these American

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polls or when these sort of midweight regime adjacent academics,

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these people like Victor Davis Hanson, I call them veneurial

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disease Hanson. I think that's more appropriated. But like neo

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cons especially have like a fetish for this, like declaring

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that somehow they're the heirrors to the Athenian tradition of

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state craft or you know, America is a post ninety

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thirty three America is the heir to this like grand

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philosophical tradition of government that's totally off base. Like arguably

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what they are positing is the core tenants of you know,

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good not just good government, but in archeological terms, what

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constitutes the political Arguably that's the opposite of what was

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being uh positive by by Plato. But moving on the

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subject matter of the republic at base is what what

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constitutes justice? Like the nature of justice. The general theme is, uh,

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you know, what constitutes essentially like a good society. And

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they're in you know, like what is what what is

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like a good citizen? You know, within that society. And

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there's various interlow hitters who represent not so much crudely

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drawn but kind of rigidly characterized archetypes that we can

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imagine populating you know, Athens during the time approximately the

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Peloponnesian War. Okay, it's obvious that the subject matter in

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sort of broad terms is how do we restore political

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health to the police, you know. And again some people

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like to interpret these three aforementioned dialogues as you know,

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being born of a crisis modality. I don't agree with that, Like, yes,

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I don't disagree that that's from those are the conditions

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from where these things were emergent. But that's not the

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purpose of them. You know, they're they're they're too uh

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they're they're they're too universal. In skulle, I mean universal

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in terms of being cross culturally applicable or being egalitarian.

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I mean that, uh, these these are absolutely partialists and

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not No nobody is suggesting, not the characters within the dialogue,

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nor uh Socrates himself, as we can interpret Socrates's sort

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of opinion to the kind of Plato. You know, none

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of them are saying, well, these these are rare conditions

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and this is an essential sort of emergent remedy. No,

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they're saying that in absolute terms. What's being proposed here

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is is is absolute in all times, in all places.

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The conversation in the Republic, it's uh. It opens with

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Socrates talking to Follows. The follows is like, you know,

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like the kind of constant, respectable citizen of Athens. He's

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very very old, he's very very well healthy, and he's

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viewed as a wise man, and he's constantly pious. He's

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not he doesn't drink to excess. He's not a womanizer.

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He's not conspicuous with his wealth. You know, everybody knows

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that he's very, very rich, but you know he's he's

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a benevolent individual. His the life he's lived, and again

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he's one of the he's one of the oldest men

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in Athens. Is Uh is a model of propriety, so Socrates,

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presumably Socrates, you know, is Uh is mastery in conceptual terms,

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if not, if not in his own life, he has

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mastery of what constugs the good. But what he can

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learn from cafollows is what is what is it like

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to be very old? You know, what is it like

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to have your perspective over you know, over time and

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over many phases of uh as we think of it,

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historical development and uh things of this sort. So that

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that's what that's what Saries could conceivably learn from him,

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because not just the role sirrities plays in the dialogues.

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It's not just I mean, and again, a lot of

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people perceive this as kind of like, oh, this is

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Plato's hegiography to Sorites. It's not just that, I mean, yeah,

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00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,319
obviously that's like a component of it. Although I suggest

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it's more complex than a lot of people, including classical

248
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scholars would admittedly know more than I do in the

249
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subject matter. It's more nuanced than they allow. But Soritis

250
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,279
is sort of the omnipotent arbiter, like in these dialogues,

251
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you know. So it's like, what, what what could he

252
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learn from Cafalo's Well, Saary is not tremendously elderly, you know,

253
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he doesn't have the same vantage point. And even if

254
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he can apprehend these things intellectually, he hasn't lived a

255
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very long life, so that that's what he can learn.

256
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That's the that's the key sort of aspect of it.

257
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But in the UH, in the course of UH their discussion,

258
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the follows essentially declayers that, well, what, you know, what

259
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,000
virtue is is always telling the truth, okay, you know,

260
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and the way we can distinguish justice from injustice is

261
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essentially by this sort of primitive integrity. Okay. He seems

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to imply that justice is synonymous with always telling the

263
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,440
truth and always paying back what somebody has received from another,

264
00:23:54,319 --> 00:23:57,799
you know, whether we're talking about in business in personal affairs,

265
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it weren't peace, you know, and say, is the rebuttal

266
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,680
of that is like, well, telling the truth and returning

267
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:15,440
another man's property isn't always just. You know, there's nuances here,

268
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,599
especially in times of war or crisis. You know, it's

269
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:25,319
not simply reducible to these things. And there's times, for example,

270
00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:29,119
where it's necessary to not just in the case of

271
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:35,200
children or easily excitable classes of people, and not just

272
00:24:35,319 --> 00:24:41,880
he lots, it's important to invoke fictions or lies for

273
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the greater good. Or there's times where one might owe

274
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,200
a man a dead of honor or money. But you know,

275
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,359
it's why the assists that man in his endeavors or

276
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:03,480
to enrich him further, would lead to you know, unjust

277
00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:06,640
outcomes because of what he plans to do. You know

278
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:16,000
this myriad conceivable outcomes or iterations whereby this sort of

279
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,519
absolute pole star of just honesty and paying one's debts

280
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:35,119
can't be said to constitute justice or the good. Subsequently,

281
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:44,839
as Gofollows is savaged in some basic sense, but Socrates

282
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:54,400
rebuttal Paula Marcos, who is a Golfellow's son like takes

283
00:25:54,519 --> 00:26:20,319
up the mantle, and what he suggests is often interpreted

284
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:28,279
falsely as a kind of to represent a kind of

285
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:33,880
primitive communism, you know, like we could say that Carl

286
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:42,640
Popper's punitive interpretation of of Platonism is that it's quasi

287
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:48,880
fascist in terms of its elitism. You know, people on

288
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:59,160
the other extreme but equally prone to punitive critique trying

289
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,799
trying to try and rapidly these sort of like modern

290
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,400
postmodern characteristics to to to the to these dialogues, and

291
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:10,240
that's that's misguided for all kinds of reasons. We can't

292
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:15,039
we we can't talk about modern political paradigms as applied

293
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,319
to the republic, I mean, regardless that, yes, the blood

294
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:21,000
Eye dialogue is the progenitor of political theory in the West,

295
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:29,519
but that's not what I'm talking about, you know, and

296
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,359
it's it should be It should be clear that, you know,

297
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:39,039
nuance is what is what bridges the ancient pass to

298
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:49,640
the to contemporary or modern conditions. Paul Marco says that

299
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:58,279
what constants the good in absolute terms is uh, that

300
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,960
which is salutary, Okay, not only do the giver but

301
00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:12,720
to the receiver, you know. And again intrinsic to that

302
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:19,440
suggestion is the fact that giving to a man what

303
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,759
rightfully belongs to him can sometimes be harmful to him,

304
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:34,079
you know, not all men judge wisely, if justice is

305
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:43,319
fundamentally salutary, and that it causates a reciprocal goodness, you know,

306
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,640
what that equates to in practical terms is that every

307
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:55,160
man should only own or control what is like fitting

308
00:28:55,359 --> 00:29:04,200
for him or what is good for him. And this

309
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,880
is where the critique of this being proto communist comes in,

310
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,839
because that would seem to intrinsically demand the abolition of

311
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,039
private property, you know, And there needs to be some arbiter,

312
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:24,000
whether it's literally like a sovereign adjudicator, or whether it's

313
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,480
some sort of core principle or set of principles that

314
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:33,079
can calculate these things, and not just the remedial but

315
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:44,319
spontaneous way, you know, that would assign not just material goods,

316
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:51,559
but relative power of a social and political nature in

317
00:29:51,680 --> 00:30:05,000
the most equitably efficient terms, you know. And axiomatically, that

318
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:09,599
would equate to a conclusion that extremely few people would

319
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:19,599
be able to determine widely across you know, cast and

320
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:25,240
discrete circumstance like what constitutes like an equitable distribution of

321
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,839
these goods, you know, And that would seem to imply again,

322
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:37,359
either some sort of enlightened dictatorship or some sort of

323
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:44,880
cadre which in contemporary terms would or twentieth century terms specifically,

324
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,759
would suggest some sort of you know, party apparatus that

325
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,839
is rendering these decisions. And again, that's the wrong way

326
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,319
to look at it for a lot of reasons. But

327
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,640
it's also even and even within the bounded irrationality and

328
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:12,559
even within the temporal you know, window of when this

329
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:21,519
discourse is taking place, the conclusion of Sogriate slash Plato

330
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,200
neutralizes any interpretation of this as communistic or fundamental legalitarian.

331
00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:36,599
We'll get to that in just a second. Well, Sogerty's

332
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:44,799
rebuttal is basically is that, yes, that would tend to

333
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:56,680
imply the rule of the philosophers, you know, And when

334
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,160
we're talking about any discrete quality, we've got to disregard

335
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,839
any sort of abstract understanding of the good, because, yes,

336
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,720
like deririd of a practical reason, there are some things

337
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:14,680
that are absolutely good and some things that are absolutely bad.

338
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,200
But what constitutes an equitable distribution can't be reduced in

339
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:26,559
political terms, Okay, can't be reduced to postulates abstracted from

340
00:32:28,119 --> 00:32:46,160
concrete circumstances. And furthermore, one of the things that separates

341
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,799
the president analysis that of Paula Marcos from his father

342
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,519
to follows to follow us. That seemed to imply that

343
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,839
his opinion is linked in his mind with the view

344
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,839
that well in justice is bad because there's bad karma

345
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,799
that attaches to it, and inextricably bound up with that

346
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,599
is the fact that after death, bad things will befall

347
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,559
the soul as well as the living de sentence of

348
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:22,559
the man who is prone to this sort of bad action.

349
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:35,640
Paula Margos displays no role in his take on this.

350
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:52,599
His view that justice must be salutary both to the

351
00:33:52,759 --> 00:34:06,039
giver and the receiver is strictly a worldly calculus, furthermore,

352
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:12,679
reducing it from any sort of egalitarian paradigm that's absolutely

353
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:22,519
you know, applicable according to what is presumably universal paradigms

354
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:31,440
of inequity that are common to all human societies. Polar

355
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:37,840
Marco's opinions tempered by the understanding that one should ultimately

356
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:45,199
be guided by helping one's friends and harming one's enemies.

357
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,679
In political terms, Again, this isn't We're not talking about

358
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:54,360
personal criteria, although it's certainly possible for somebody's personal enemy

359
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:07,079
to also constitute, you know, a political hostile, and Socrates

360
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:15,599
agrees with that, and Sodri's openly states that that's what

361
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:22,480
can be understood to be civic responsibility is the fellow

362
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:27,000
feeling one has not just for you know, their family

363
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:31,280
and their their personal friends and their neighbors, but for

364
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:38,000
the paulas and wanting you know, justice to be realized

365
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:47,800
within that you know, fellow feeling community. And essentially, you know,

366
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:55,800
the moral imperatives that surround these positive duties to one's friends.

367
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,280
Not only do they end at the boundaries the paulas,

368
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:04,079
but you have an obligation to not assist those outside

369
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:09,360
the paulas, you know, even if they're not enemies. So

370
00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:14,800
that this is where Plato, according to people like Popper,

371
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,519
to bring it back to the point of made a

372
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:21,480
minute ago, this is the big critique of the open society.

373
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:24,400
You know, I'm simplifying for the sake of brevity, and

374
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,519
we'll get more into this as time goes on. But uh,

375
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:37,000
that's what's being discussed. And interestingly, one would think this

376
00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:41,599
goes without saying, and it did kind of in terms

377
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:48,440
of people's instinctive concepts, I mean, such that you know,

378
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,599
we're talking about the class of people or the cast

379
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:54,840
of people. We're capable of understanding politics and political matters.

380
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,880
At the theoretical level, this would go without saying. But

381
00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:04,679
Plato went to the trouble through the mouthpiece of Socrates

382
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:12,440
to explicate this in terms that are not discreetly limited

383
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:15,840
to the paulice in which he was situated. I find

384
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,400
that fascinating. And it suggests too that this was being

385
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,320
written for the sake of posterity, you know, not just

386
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,719
immediate posterity, like well, Socrates is not long for this earth,

387
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:33,239
you know. And certainly Plato as somebody who was bearing

388
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,760
witness to the events of the Peloponnesian War and that,

389
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:45,159
you know, the sort of transgressions actually perceived, the alleged

390
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:55,440
to Socrates being availed to punitive justice and ultimately executed.

391
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,400
You know, he wasn't just he wasn't just guarding the

392
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:00,599
records that were.

393
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,119
Speaker 1: He was.

394
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:11,159
Speaker 2: Transcribing these things and creating these narratives, you know. And

395
00:38:11,159 --> 00:38:12,639
it's not for me to say, like how much of

396
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:17,400
this was creatively confabulated and how much was word for

397
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:20,679
word what he brought witness to. In terms of the

398
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,360
testimony of the alleged declarence. But there was an understanding that,

399
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,840
in my opinion, that anybody would kind of come away

400
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,519
with after reading the Republic of the Posterity playod in

401
00:38:32,639 --> 00:38:41,440
mind was for all time and that's remarkable. But moving on, Sorry,

402
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:53,039
I'm buried under wires. But yeah, So, I mean, if

403
00:38:53,079 --> 00:39:01,000
we understand in its simplest terms, that the just man

404
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:03,039
he gives to his friends what is good for them,

405
00:39:04,159 --> 00:39:10,679
and uh, the just man helps his friends, himself and

406
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:17,920
his police by you know, only only only acting to

407
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,039
harm knows who are his enemies in uh public and

408
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:36,840
and and political terms. Socrates, then he starts invoking these

409
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,000
loops and metaphors, which seems to suggests that justice is

410
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:46,039
an art like medicine. It's not. It's it's not. It's

411
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:48,159
not a science. So it was there might be like

412
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,039
scientific aspects to it. And to be clear, the way

413
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:56,679
that Athenians thought of science is fundamentally different than the

414
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,400
way that in post Enlightenment moderns doing This is actually significant.

415
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:08,440
We'll get into that moving forward. But you know, it

416
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:16,480
requires uh a man to be able to identify what

417
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,400
is best for the body politic at any given moment.

418
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,079
I mean, it goes out saying that what is best

419
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:27,920
in absolute terms has to be a guiding imperative, but

420
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,480
at any given moment, like what is best for the

421
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:35,119
police literally, like the body of the police, you know,

422
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:41,840
has to be diagnosed and and identified and delicately remedy

423
00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:49,480
depending on the circumstances. Thus, like what is it's not?

424
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,639
It's not adequate to declare that justice must merely be salutary.

425
00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:57,280
You know, there's there's got to be a curative and

426
00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:04,639
uh and cultivated understanding of what's going to facilitate the

427
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:15,719
good you know. And obviously too, if we're reducing this

428
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:23,480
to personal criteria, which Pollar Margo's alludes to by versus

429
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,920
of the fact that he's not as sophisticated either as

430
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,440
his father could Follows or Socrates, you know, there's some

431
00:41:32,679 --> 00:41:40,119
individual men who aren't really capable of benefiting from justice,

432
00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:45,760
you know, even if they are people who we share

433
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,119
fellow feelings for, and even if they're not bad men

434
00:41:51,719 --> 00:42:00,199
in you know, objective terms. So like again, these the

435
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:09,079
mechanistic criteria can't really be applied the human condition. And

436
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:14,199
that's actually a very kind of proto Christian understanding obviously,

437
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:20,559
and throughout the Platonic dialogues. There's a lot of that,

438
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:27,760
you know, I I made and this isn't I'm not

439
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,719
being cunitive at all, but one notices, especially among Roman

440
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,559
Catholics there want a lot of the time to invoking

441
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:44,199
platonic uh rationalizations for things. I'm not sure they fully

442
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,199
realize that there's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not.

443
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,239
I I've got a lot of love Roman Catholics there.

444
00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:54,519
I'm I'm the I'm the sectarian minority on the ground,

445
00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:58,079
like not just here, but with the fellows that click

446
00:42:58,199 --> 00:43:02,199
up with you know they're there. They were overwhelmingly Catholic

447
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,239
onto geography other things. But you know, this is uh,

448
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:15,320
this is highly significance. And we'll get into we'll get

449
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,800
into a quias in coming weeks in this series, and

450
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,920
we'll get into like the tie that binds the classical

451
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:30,920
to the modern and the you know, the the ancient

452
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:39,199
heritage of of of Athens to Christendom and Foulstian civilization,

453
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,639
if you will, with the caveat that. Again, am not

454
00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:49,599
any kind of classical scholar or anthropologists, but I if

455
00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:53,519
you bear with me, I'm not talking about the subs

456
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:58,159
and everybody I think I think I'll be able to

457
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:12,280
devise a worthwhile outline. But essentially what this resolves in this, uh,

458
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:20,360
this sort of a secondary dialogue between Socrates and Paula Marcos,

459
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,480
is the conclusion that, well, you know, owing to what

460
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:33,519
I just stated about Socrates understanding of sort of the

461
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,119
the the the epistemic aspects of what constitutes you know,

462
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:45,760
a good citizen, really the only men who can sort

463
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,920
of stand an absolute judgment of the police and sort

464
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:58,880
of curate these ethical remedies at scale are you know,

465
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:06,159
they are are guardians. Okay, the guardians are basically the

466
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:12,199
sort of philosopher kings that people bandy in colloquial terms

467
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:23,480
when discussing Plato and the Platonic ideal. That's not that's

468
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:27,599
not really the best way to think of it, because

469
00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:33,639
Plato more than anybody, because he's immersed in in the

470
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,920
life of I see him and whatever like Plato doesn't.

471
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:44,400
Plato's not saying so so we can discern his own,

472
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,800
you know, views on the good life and on what

473
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:58,719
is politically sound. He's not saying that, you know, Socrates

474
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,119
is the greatest man, that philosophers are the greatest of men.

475
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:11,440
It's almost tantamount to what Nietzsche said about, you know,

476
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,079
the messianic personage in historical terms, not theological. To be clear,

477
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,760
who would be aware of the fact that all preceding

478
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,440
value systems were mere horizons of a conceptual nature. You know.

479
00:46:26,559 --> 00:46:31,679
Nietscha famously said that, you know, the common redeemer would

480
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:38,760
be Caesar with the soul of Christ. Okay, it's a

481
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,880
little bit, it's substantially less kind of apocalyptic what Plato

482
00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:49,320
was suggesting. But essentially, what would need to be curated

483
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:56,719
in the ideal republic are you know, men of action

484
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:02,679
and men who have an instinctive view of what constitutes

485
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,400
the good, you know, not unlike what Sorel said was,

486
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:14,519
you know, the pre Socratic ideal in terms of, you know,

487
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:23,639
what constituted what constituted good life and what constituted a

488
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:31,000
civic morality. But obviously Plato was talking about what we'd

489
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:35,840
think of as a culture uring stratum, you know, and

490
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,920
that required a more complex and kind of complete understanding

491
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:54,679
of you know, historical phenomenon and processes. But you know,

492
00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:04,519
I think, and again people welcome to disagree. We're not

493
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:10,320
talking about philosophy, philosopher kings. We're talking about a culture

494
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:19,320
bearing stratum that is self consciously aware of, you know,

495
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:29,480
the manner in which conceptual ethics and historical mandate deteriorates

496
00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:37,400
over time as people simply take the the configuration of

497
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:47,679
the Polas for granted and believe that you know, justice

498
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:53,360
and truly cosmic terms. You know, whether we're talking about

499
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,039
you know, in the midst of the Peloponnesian War, a

500
00:48:57,119 --> 00:49:01,440
bunch of Athenian assemblymen residing themselves, the fact that well,

501
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:03,519
this is in the hands of fortune under the gods,

502
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,840
or whether we're talking about you know today where people

503
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,440
just have this kind of faith and peoples have this

504
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:19,280
kind of faith and like endless material prosperity, whereby uncertainty

505
00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:24,119
is by way of technological innovation and the regularization of

506
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,159
of commerce and things at scale. You know, well, you know,

507
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,840
we can we can just kind of we we can

508
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,360
just sort of rely upon like the internal logic of

509
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:43,280
these systems too, you know, sort of guard note of prosperity,

510
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,599
but a way of life that sort of cows within

511
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:52,320
priamters of reason, even if only because you know, the

512
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:57,119
systems that facilitate the informental prosperity. You know, we're derivative

513
00:49:57,199 --> 00:50:01,719
of reason, and that means that, you know, it would

514
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,559
be self defeating for anybody to step verbally or literally

515
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:09,960
outside of those things or try to sabotage them. You know, this,

516
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:12,199
this is a really very real thing. And it's not

517
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,840
just it's it's not just affluentza or the malaise of

518
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,199
of you know, success or whatever people like to assign

519
00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:31,480
whatever cause people like to assign to uh, crisis crises

520
00:50:31,679 --> 00:50:39,440
of of morals in uh the modern state, you know,

521
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,519
or as they extrapolated those same phenomenon to Asian conditions

522
00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:49,400
and trying to interpret what exactly was underway during the

523
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:54,440
Peloponnesian War. You know, this is the this is this

524
00:50:54,559 --> 00:51:06,239
is fundamentally important. But moving on, you know, Socrates goes

525
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,400
as far and again this is this is key because

526
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,639
and this is you know again I realized, I'm coming

527
00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:16,679
back a lot to Carl Popper, who was a very

528
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:25,719
sinister personage, but uh, the key to understanding a lot

529
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:31,920
of the president regimes ideological fetishes as well as its priorities.

530
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:39,920
You know, Popper was famously a huge proponent of scientism

531
00:51:41,559 --> 00:51:46,199
that was the valuum of the open society and its

532
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,920
enemies that deals with Plato. I think it's volume two.

533
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,159
I gotta check that I actually have it on my bookshelf.

534
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,320
But his big what he viewed as his kind of

535
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:07,039
big trump card, was declaring that and he borrowed from

536
00:52:07,039 --> 00:52:09,079
a lot of the same canon that John Rawls did,

537
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:17,000
suggesting that, well, you know, anybody who's interested in devising

538
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:22,079
an equitable social paradigm realizes that, you know, we can,

539
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:25,800
we can plan society. If not down to the most

540
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:30,280
minute discrete detail, you know, we can we can basically

541
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:37,280
plan in economic and sociological terms, you know, to eliminate

542
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,719
the most egregious injustices. And you know, one of the

543
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,280
reasons why all these people like Plato and all these

544
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,079
Christians and all these you know, conservatives, one of the

545
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:52,599
reasons why, you know, they were unable to improve upon

546
00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:57,800
you know, human well being was because they were operating

547
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:04,519
according to myths that weren't falsifi biable. And this was

548
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,639
a lot This was what renee Yon was talking about.

549
00:53:06,679 --> 00:53:10,800
When you talk about scientism, you know, people like Popper

550
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,480
weren't talking about science. They were talking about beliefs and

551
00:53:15,199 --> 00:53:19,960
these sort of mythological postulates, which is ironic because their

552
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:25,559
whole their whole raison. Detro is going on declaring that

553
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:30,559
everybody else was sort of taken in by this retrograde mythology.

554
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:36,119
But like scientism isn't science. What scientism is is it's

555
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:42,800
a belief structure based on certain scientific postulates, which from there,

556
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:47,199
you know, the adherence of this declare that, well, the

557
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,960
only way of knowing is truly, you know, the methodology

558
00:53:52,039 --> 00:53:57,480
of science, and anything outside of that, well you're drawing

559
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:01,840
upon things other than bare matter or you know which, Again,

560
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,280
the existence which can't be proven according to these criteria

561
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,039
that I or we have assigned is the only way

562
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:14,800
of you know, acquiring absolute knowledge. So you know, this

563
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:18,400
is this is just a recipe for tyranny, because the

564
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,880
only way we can know anything is to this methodology

565
00:54:23,519 --> 00:54:31,719
that you know was just aforementioned, and there's so many

566
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,800
problems with that, it's almost difficult to discern where to begin.

567
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:37,840
It's like it's like playing with them all the role

568
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,360
playing games where it's like you're fighting a hydra or

569
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,639
something with like a thousand hit points, and it's like

570
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:46,440
which head do you try to cut off first? You know,

571
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,480
but people find that superficially really persuasive. That is changing now,

572
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,840
I might add, and uh, I'm the first to uh

573
00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:08,679
point out that anybody, anybody who goes around saying like, oh, well,

574
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:13,840
religion is dead and now you know, we understand that

575
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:17,400
these progressive postults were correct. People like that are totally

576
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,159
out of touch. I mean, just like an objective terms,

577
00:55:20,199 --> 00:55:23,159
either spend all their time on Reddit or they haven't

578
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,960
read a book of fresh Vintage in the last twenty

579
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:31,880
five years, like like nobody believes in that anymore, and

580
00:55:32,039 --> 00:55:35,199
that's dead. Like whether whether everybody likes that or not,

581
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,639
that's totally dead, like the current paradigm. I mean, first

582
00:55:39,679 --> 00:55:43,880
of all, what one of the things that shocked everybody

583
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,239
as the Cold War was ending was that it was

584
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,119
it was it was negatively theological imperatives that were taking

585
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:57,039
down the socialist community and nations as they call themselves.

586
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:05,199
But the way to understand things these days a mystic globalism,

587
00:56:05,639 --> 00:56:11,599
aside from the fact that the primary loci resistance are

588
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:17,880
in in places that are are animated by my theological

589
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,239
principles like for Riley, for better or worse, whatever many

590
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,079
thinks about this, the Russian Federation, they view themselves as

591
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:30,719
being a vanguard of Christian doome against a profoundly evil secularism,

592
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,960
you know, diddo like Daryl Islam. Okay, like this is reality.

593
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:43,079
Whatever people think about either the you know, discrete belief

594
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,360
systems that predominate in some of these territories, or what

595
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,360
do people think about religion generally, Like this is reality.

596
00:56:49,639 --> 00:56:55,119
Anybody doesn't understand that doesn't understand the last forty years

597
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:04,320
in terms of world historical phenomenon. But you know, that's

598
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:13,840
this entire sort of It's not just that Roman Catholicism

599
00:57:14,039 --> 00:57:24,480
became this formative you know, aspect of Knoll Europe, that

600
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:36,280
Plato sort of became the starting point of Western metaphysics

601
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:44,599
as we think of it. It's it's because that's fundamentally,

602
00:57:47,159 --> 00:57:57,920
you know, a highly sophisticated theological worldview and the synchronism

603
00:57:58,039 --> 00:58:06,920
of Christianity of the kind that uh, you know, the

604
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:10,719
mur of our Ingians and the early I thought in

605
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,440
political terms. Okay, to be clear, all right, I'm not

606
00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:17,559
saying that you know, the what the I'm not saying

607
00:58:17,639 --> 00:58:22,840
these political cultures somehow were more theologically sound or sophisticated

608
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,239
in the early Church fathers. But there's a reason why

609
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:31,760
there was this sort of ready acceptance of the syndredism

610
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:38,239
between Platonism in the early Roman Church, you know, and

611
00:58:38,239 --> 00:58:46,000
it wasn't just a matter of men who coveted power

612
00:58:46,119 --> 00:58:50,599
and the ability the sort of mold like a nascent,

613
00:58:50,920 --> 00:59:04,559
uh political culture that spanned literally a continent into you know,

614
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:09,039
something that was coherent and in a line with their

615
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:19,280
own peculiar vision of what constituted you know, the good

616
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:25,159
and human life at organizational scale. You know, it was

617
00:59:26,679 --> 00:59:36,880
way more historically situated than that and frankly profound. But yeah,

618
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,639
it looks like we're gonna write about an hour man

619
00:59:39,159 --> 00:59:41,559
that was rambleing. You'd forgive me, like it's, uh, there's

620
00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:46,119
a lot here, and we'll, uh, I'll be more focused

621
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:50,760
in the next episode and we'll get into kind of

622
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:58,920
more of what's significant about Plato, especially as regards you know,

623
00:59:59,119 --> 01:00:04,840
the Christianization of the continent, without getting ahead of ourselves.

624
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:08,000
But yeah, we'll uh well, we'll we'll finish up playo

625
01:00:08,119 --> 01:00:11,199
next time. Man. I hope this wasn't too scatter shuff.

626
01:00:13,079 --> 01:00:16,559
Speaker 1: No, no, please tell everybody where they can find you.

627
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:24,000
Did you have you had another incident with another platform, I.

628
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 2: Mean, discord nuked us. I kind of anticipated that the

629
01:00:28,119 --> 01:00:31,840
Discord thing was an experiment, like I know, discords run

630
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,280
by like gay Fees and stuff like I, but I

631
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,000
I want to find us a short form like chat

632
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:42,760
home where I can also like live stream discords kind

633
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:47,800
of the the normy sort of a platform like that.

634
01:00:48,159 --> 01:00:49,960
And I wanted to get habituated to those kinds of

635
01:00:50,039 --> 01:00:52,920
servers because honestly, I haven't like really used them before.

636
01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:58,719
But I I'm going to continue with our Saturday night

637
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,519
streams This Saturday. I'm probably just gonna stream from substack

638
01:01:02,719 --> 01:01:05,320
and I'll shout it out tomorrow when I decide where

639
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:09,000
I'm gonna shout it out from. But I I've got

640
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:15,599
a bunch of the fellas I've been suggesting other platforms.

641
01:01:15,719 --> 01:01:19,280
I'll turn it into discord where the hosting isn't this

642
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:24,119
problematic in terms of sorious actors and what have you. Well,

643
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,679
i'll have this figured out in the next several days.

644
01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:29,440
I just I had a busy week, like preparing for

645
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:32,960
the OGC kind ofly even you know, working on my

646
01:01:33,079 --> 01:01:36,400
manuscripts and other things. But I promise i'll have it

647
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,519
figured out by this weekend in a semi permanent capacity.

648
01:01:40,679 --> 01:01:43,119
But yeah, the best places to find me My online

649
01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:47,400
home is Substack. It's real Thomas seven seven seven. That's

650
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,480
substack dot com. That's what the podcast is. That's a

651
01:01:51,559 --> 01:01:56,280
lot of like my short to medium length form stuff is.

652
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:03,679
You know, I'm on I'm on Instagram, I'm you know,

653
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:09,400
our friends like like Pete here and and like Jay Burden,

654
01:02:09,679 --> 01:02:12,079
they're kind enough to offer me a platform regularly. But

655
01:02:12,599 --> 01:02:15,440
you know, I've got my own podcast and I do

656
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:18,280
a bi weekly current events show with Jay Burden called

657
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,679
Radio Free Chicago. Yeah, check out check out the substack

658
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,039
and from there you'll kind of get a sense of

659
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:28,559
where to find all my content. And I this is

660
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:30,960
a period of transition for giving me the fact that

661
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:32,760
things are kind of up in the air, but it's

662
01:02:33,559 --> 01:02:37,440
I promise this will be for the best man and

663
01:02:37,679 --> 01:02:40,840
in the coming days and weeks like well, we'll be

664
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,079
more accessible, all

665
01:02:43,199 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: Right, And so Part five, thank you,