Speaker 1: Bill cunning into Great American all health breaking, loose, chaos
Speaker 1: and confusion is everywhere.
Speaker 2: Had riots over the weekend.
Speaker 1: Of course, with this so called note kings, riots and
Speaker 1: the protests would happen in the state of Oregon is
Speaker 1: really unbelievable. Portland, for example, what happened in La. You
Speaker 1: have the La County Sheriff say that molotov cocktails are thrown,
Speaker 1: dozens of officers have been injured, blocks of concrete have
Speaker 1: been pitched. You have a commercial grade fireworks being distributed
Speaker 1: among the police to hurt and injure them. You have
Speaker 1: no commerce happening in Los Angeles. I would think, I
Speaker 1: don't know how you have a worse mare than Karen
Speaker 1: Bass or a worst governor. But everywhere I look there's
Speaker 1: nothing but chaos plus and the next few days the
Speaker 1: President is going to be in the Rocky Mountains Canadian
Speaker 1: side to talk to some of the G seven leaders
Speaker 1: about that. It's a situation plus unbelievable. What's happening in Israel,
Speaker 1: And it goes on and on on. It's only been
Speaker 1: like two or three days since that erupted, and since then,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the world has changed. Showan you
Speaker 1: and I now as Congressman Warren Davidson of the great
Speaker 1: State of Ohio. And there's two congressmen that voted against
Speaker 1: the Big Beautiful Bill in the House. Both are our guests,
Speaker 1: and I think the listeners of mine that being a
Speaker 1: Thomas Massey and Warren Davidson and Congressmen, welcome again to
Speaker 1: the Bill Cunningham Show. And first of all, to go
Speaker 1: back a couple of weeks, it was a one vote plus.
Speaker 1: What caused you to vote no on the Big Beautiful
Speaker 1: Bill about ten days or two weeks ago?
Speaker 3: Yeah, good question.
Speaker 4: It spends more money than it creates bigger depthicits than
Speaker 4: we would have if we didn't pass the Big Beautiful Bill,
Speaker 4: and it doesn't you know, look, you don't want to
Speaker 4: go by the GAO score.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's been a.
Speaker 4: Lot of criticism of that that comes out and says
Speaker 4: it costs like five trillion dollars.
Speaker 3: Over ten years.
Speaker 4: GAO doesn't give credit for you know, the growth rate,
Speaker 4: doesn't give credit for tariffs. Pen Wharton, which Wharton School
Speaker 4: of Business usually is one that people will look at
Speaker 4: that says, oh, we give good scores there and everything,
Speaker 4: and that says it still grows the deaths. It's even
Speaker 4: in ten years. But the most optimistic model I could
Speaker 4: find gives as much credit. It's the one that Speaker
Speaker 4: Johnson and President Trump and Steven Miller and everybody's highlighting.
Speaker 4: It does look good, it looks very, very nice. In
Speaker 4: a ten year timeframe, would grow, would save about one
Speaker 4: point six trillion dollars if everything went according to plan.
Speaker 4: But even in those most optimistic scenarios, it doesn't. It
Speaker 4: grows death SIT's in the first, you know, in the
Speaker 4: first this Congress and then the entire presidency, so until
Speaker 4: twenty twenty nine before it really starts saving money.
Speaker 1: And the other thing is how much pressure were you
Speaker 1: under thumbscrews?
Speaker 2: Were you tortured?
Speaker 1: Whenever someone says, get me the pliers and get me
Speaker 1: the blow torch, did the Trumpster and others give you
Speaker 1: the pliers and the blow torch.
Speaker 4: No. Look, we've had conversations about these bills since you know,
Speaker 4: November really I mean probably really prior to that, but
Speaker 4: you know, you know, in an aggressive way. I mean
Speaker 4: hundreds and hundreds of hours spent in meetings talking about
Speaker 4: these bills to get to this point. So you know, no,
Speaker 4: one's surprised by the position I've had, Franken's position. I had,
Speaker 4: you know, last Congress when when I voted yes for
Speaker 4: a bill that if if we stuck to the plan,
Speaker 4: would have spent less money than we did the year before.
Speaker 3: And that's the criteria. We don't.
Speaker 4: We don't even talk about passing a balance budget anymore.
Speaker 4: I'm just like, can we at least turn in the
Speaker 4: right direction and spend less money than we did the
Speaker 4: year before, which is a pretty low bar, But we don't.
Speaker 4: We don't ever put that on the floor. We did
Speaker 4: pass a plan to do that last Congress, and I
Speaker 4: sort of had hoped that we could at least agree
Speaker 4: to do that, especially.
Speaker 3: In light of all the momentum we've built with dose.
Speaker 4: So that's been my position is if we've got a
Speaker 4: plan to spend less than I'm for it, and if
Speaker 4: we don't, then you know, then you know, we'll see
Speaker 4: what we can do.
Speaker 3: And so go back to March.
Speaker 4: I was, you know, ento February, early March, we passed
Speaker 4: essentially the plan to start putting this reconciliation bill together,
Speaker 4: and we basically decided we're going to go with one big,
Speaker 4: beautiful bill.
Speaker 3: Versus the two step approach.
Speaker 4: I favored the two step approach for what it's worth,
Speaker 4: but you know, ultimately the kind of moderates push to
Speaker 4: stick everybody together and put one big, beautiful bill, and
Speaker 4: the danger in that is usually it's worse on spending.
Speaker 4: That's how why they do I'm the bus bills is
Speaker 4: you know, the usually the way you get the votes
Speaker 4: is you just agree to spend more, and that's exactly
Speaker 4: what they did. They so they turned towards the left
Speaker 4: and they counted on holding everybody they could from the
Speaker 4: right onto the big beautiful bill.
Speaker 3: And that's where you've lost votes.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, me, Massy Andy Harris voted present,
Speaker 4: but it's because people didn't really want to take it.
Speaker 4: And that's kind of where I was in at the
Speaker 4: end of February and March, where I was the last
Speaker 4: person to get DS and the speaker assured me that
Speaker 4: he would not put a bill on the floor that
Speaker 4: didn't save at least one point six train one point
Speaker 4: five trillion dollars in a ten year. CBO score technically
Speaker 4: doesn't do it with CBO, but you can find a
Speaker 4: model that does it. But we talked about this Congress.
Speaker 4: And that's really the crux of it, Willie, is you know,
Speaker 4: the only Congress we control is the one we're in, right,
Speaker 4: So it's easy to promise some future Congress is going
Speaker 4: to save money, but promises somebody else is going to
Speaker 4: save money doesn't save money. And so while there's lots
Speaker 4: of things that we could do, I've given almost two
Speaker 4: trillion dollars worth of ideas that you could cut that
Speaker 4: would accelerate the you know, this model so that this
Speaker 4: Congress or at least this presidency. And that's where I relented.
Speaker 4: I said, Okay, let's say that Trump would be willing
Speaker 4: to veto a bad spending bill. We don't necessarily know
Speaker 4: who's going to win in the midterms, but I would
Speaker 4: be willing to vote for it as long as it
Speaker 4: would save money by the time President Trump's out of office
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty nine. And you know, even the best
Speaker 4: model that they can come up with, it doesn't do that,
Speaker 4: and so we wanted to So this is a long
Speaker 4: part of the story here, but again, hours and hours
Speaker 4: and hours of these conversations, ultimately we're able to get
Speaker 4: it out of the House, but still have you know,
Speaker 4: no votes from the conservative side of this, the less
Speaker 4: spend less money side, tease it up to get to
Speaker 4: the Senate, right, and that's where Rick Scott, Ron Johnson
Speaker 4: and Mike Lee are pushing it. And look, Thomas Massey
Speaker 4: and Rand Paul are kind of in their own place.
Speaker 4: Whether they're movable or not, as you know, to be determined,
Speaker 4: but the other three senators are there. Rick Scott's been
Speaker 4: hosting dinners with conservatives from the House and Senate for
Speaker 4: a couple of years now, so we've spent lots of
Speaker 4: hours talking amongst Conservas in the House and Senate, and
Speaker 4: frankly with the administration and Susie Wiles and team there
Speaker 4: she's chief staff, on how to keep this bill from
Speaker 4: becoming just another giant on the bus.
Speaker 2: No matter what you know.
Speaker 1: The numbers II the big Beautiful Bell passes. Is it
Speaker 1: true right now that the accumulated debt is about thirty
Speaker 1: seven trillion and over the next ten years, let's forget
Speaker 1: about ten years. Over the next five years, under the
Speaker 1: plan of the Big BB, there's going to be ten trillion.
Speaker 2: Dollars more borrowing.
Speaker 1: So by the time Trump leaves office, there will be
Speaker 1: forty seven trillion owed by our kids and grand kids.
Speaker 2: Is that approximately correct?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean directionally, we're having you know, two trillion
Speaker 4: dollar depth sits right now. And unfortunately, under this bill
Speaker 4: during Trump's presidency, in the most optimistic scenario, it still
Speaker 4: grows those depths that's beyond the two trillion, so it
Speaker 4: makes them even worse for the next two or three years.
Speaker 4: That's that's you know, that's a terrible situation for the
Speaker 4: depth sit and when you go to the ten year score,
Speaker 4: when they say in the optimistic if you stick to
Speaker 4: the plan, we save one point six trillion dollars. This
Speaker 4: bill would raise a debt debt limit by four to
Speaker 4: five trillion, depends on the House version of the Senate version,
Speaker 4: whichever one becomes final four or five trillion dollars. But
Speaker 4: the reality is you're going to grow debt by like
Speaker 4: twenty two trillion dollars by then, so you're talking fifty
Speaker 4: trillion dollars worth of debt by the time you get
Speaker 4: the ten year score. So I mean this starts eating
Speaker 4: up our GDP. I mean, it's a huge percentage of
Speaker 4: our GDP. And the last time that we had this
Speaker 4: much debt, it was the end of World War two.
Speaker 4: But everybody knew we had to spend less money. Right now,
Speaker 4: almost nobody's talking about spending less money. And that's sort
Speaker 4: of where Elon Musk, you know, it's like, look, it
Speaker 4: kind of works in the opposite direction. Why did I
Speaker 4: want to go do Doe was so we could spend
Speaker 4: less money, And this bill does just the opposite of that.
Speaker 4: It's a big setback, and you know, he's right to
Speaker 4: be upset about that, and you know, of course we
Speaker 4: do want to find a.
Speaker 3: Way to get it done.
Speaker 1: Congress and Warren Davidson. One great part about this bill
Speaker 1: is is the continuation of tax cuts and the idea
Speaker 1: that if nothing happens, this will destroy the Trump legacy.
Speaker 1: And secondly, there'll be huge tax increase on the American people.
Speaker 1: What do you say about that one? Well, I think, look,
Speaker 1: no one wants that.
Speaker 4: We know we're going to have to deal with the taxes.
Speaker 4: I don't whether it's in this big, beautiful bill or
Speaker 4: in a broken apart a series of things.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's enough votes to change the tax code.
Speaker 4: I mean, the reality is that, you know, the Senate
Speaker 4: passed the no tax on Tips provision that President Trump
Speaker 4: wanted as a standalone measure kind of approved the point
Speaker 4: one hundred to zero. If you look at some of
Speaker 4: these provisions in the tax code, you know there are
Speaker 4: Democrats who would vote for it. We could pass them
Speaker 4: with sixty votes. You don't even need very many Democrats
Speaker 4: to do that. You could do those in standalone bills.
Speaker 4: And then the last thing is it's not like you
Speaker 4: only get like one giant reconciliation bill per year. The
Speaker 4: Democrats did the same plan when they passed the American
Speaker 4: Rescue Plan and when they passed the you know, Inflation
Speaker 4: Reduction Actor sort of Green New Deal, and they're blending
Speaker 4: what's traditionally mandatory spending and discretionary spending, but in their case,
Speaker 4: they just want to spend more money. Bernie Sanders liked
Speaker 4: it so much when he was the Democrat chair of
Speaker 4: the Senate Budget Committee. He said, is there any limit
Speaker 4: to how we can do this? And the Senate Parliamentarium
Speaker 4: said no, you can do this as often as you want.
Speaker 4: So it's not like you can only do it like
Speaker 4: once per year you're limited to it. So those why
Speaker 4: it's kind of crazy to not do two bills instead
Speaker 4: of one, Because you have a clear consensus on a
Speaker 4: lot of things. Why did they want one big, beautiful bill. Well,
Speaker 4: because the moderates from places like New York and New
Speaker 4: Jersey and California wanted this state and local tax deduction
Speaker 4: and they knew that was their leverage to force it
Speaker 4: to be as big as possible.
Speaker 3: And it's a shame that we gave into that.
Speaker 1: Well, at this point, Congressman, I would say this, the
Speaker 1: tax cuts have got to be continued, and secondly, somehow
Speaker 1: the accamulated debt has got to come down. If it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen now, I've said this many times in talk
Speaker 1: radio for the last several decades, if it doesn't happen, now, wait,
Speaker 1: guys like you and Ran Paul and John Thune and
Speaker 1: President Trump and going on. If it doesn't happen now,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen because if this group can't get
Speaker 1: it done, the deficit is just going to continue yearly
Speaker 1: to go up two trillion, three trillion. And secondly, the
Speaker 1: accumulated that's gonna be wild. So if it doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: now we're screwed, blue tattooed and barbecue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's it.
Speaker 4: You look at all the momentum we had coming off
Speaker 4: of Doze and the election, and look, you shouldn't have
Speaker 4: to fund the Green New Deal, and you know, tax
Speaker 4: breaks for you know, wealthy people in New York to
Speaker 4: be able to secure our borders. So there are things
Speaker 4: in there that we like and agree. And if you
Speaker 4: cut taxes, it makes sense. You can grow the economy
Speaker 4: to some extent and bring in a little more tax revenue.
Speaker 4: You can bring tariffs in and bring in you know,
Speaker 4: significant revenue from tariffs. But you can't do that and
Speaker 4: spend money and cut taxes and not have to raise
Speaker 4: the debt limit. And eventually, if all this stuff comes together,
Speaker 4: the reason it starts looking good in the out years
Speaker 4: is they eventually get around to turning off major chunks
Speaker 4: of the Green New Deal. They eventually around to saying, look,
Speaker 4: if you're able bodied working in adult work, you got
Speaker 4: to go to work work. But who would help a
Speaker 4: friend in need out and say, well, hey, buddy, I
Speaker 4: mean I'll help you out for now, but by the
Speaker 4: end of twenty twenty seven, you got to get a job,
Speaker 4: all right. Why does it mean to do the same
Speaker 4: thing when the government does the same thing.
Speaker 3: That you and I would do for a friends and family.
Speaker 1: The idea that illegal immigrants should be getting medicaid something
Speaker 1: like one point three million or so, plus another four
Speaker 1: point six million or able body to adults that refuse
Speaker 1: to work.
Speaker 2: We have only a few minutes remaining. I want to
Speaker 2: get your taken. What's happening in Israel?
Speaker 1: I understand from off the air the Congress is planning
Speaker 1: on a little bit of a trip next week to
Speaker 1: Israel that may not occur. I see this as a
Speaker 1: golden opportunity in which the Gulf States want Iran to
Speaker 1: be taken down completely. We use four or five Muslim
Speaker 1: countries Israel did to fly over their F fifteen's and
Speaker 1: to bomb and take care of Iran the most they
Speaker 1: can give me. Warren Davidson's position on what's happening now,
Speaker 1: This go on for next week or ten days, God
Speaker 1: knows how long. What should be done, what could be done,
Speaker 1: what must be done with this side is an evil
Speaker 1: in the modern world, that being Iran.
Speaker 4: Look, Iran has clearly been the destabilizing force in the
Speaker 4: Middle East, and they've funded proxy wars that have targeted
Speaker 4: you know, Israel. I mean, how did Homask get the
Speaker 4: money and do the effort to do the ten to
Speaker 4: seven massacre in Israel.
Speaker 3: Well, it's heavily Iran. And this is why it was
Speaker 3: so foolish.
Speaker 4: What the Biden administration and frankly previously the Obama administration
Speaker 4: did was to you know, negotiate with Iran, give them cash.
Speaker 4: And Iran with cash is about as predictable as gravity.
Speaker 4: They're going to use it to attack Israel. So look,
Speaker 4: they've had essentially a proxy war going on between Iran
Speaker 4: and Israel, and an occasional flare up into a direct
Speaker 4: conflict between the two countries. And I got friends in Israel,
Speaker 4: I mean, just pull it on a personal level. I've
Speaker 4: got friends in Israel. I wish them safety and success.
Speaker 4: I got no friends in Iran. I mean, I think
Speaker 4: there are lots of good Iranian people who've got an
Speaker 4: evil gut and they do evil things. So you know,
Speaker 4: I hope Israel prevails, but I do think it's not
Speaker 4: our war to fight or our war to fund. And
Speaker 4: I think Israel has historically said we're fine fighting our
Speaker 4: own wars.
Speaker 3: The trouble is is.
Speaker 4: Now everybody, you know, the warmongers out there, they look
Speaker 4: for every chance they can to get to get into.
Speaker 3: A bigger broader war.
Speaker 4: And frankly, some of my colleagues in the House and
Speaker 4: a handful of Senators I've talked to, are done near
Speaker 4: giddy about the prospect of getting us into a bigger war,
Speaker 4: whether it's with I ran with Russia in Ukraine or
Speaker 4: somewhere else.
Speaker 3: And they haven't found one.
Speaker 1: They don't like no at this point. And I would
Speaker 1: give them all the bunker buster bombs. They need to
Speaker 1: do everything they can do. Tell the Iranian people. And
Speaker 1: I thought Netanyahu was great the other day the other
Speaker 1: night when he said, look, it's time for the Iranian
Speaker 1: people to arise. Sirih was going to be there forever
Speaker 1: Lebanon was going to be there forever has been of Moss.
Speaker 2: Let's face it.
Speaker 1: The policies of Joe Biden fun to terror all over
Speaker 1: the world, especially by giving the Onans billions of dollars,
Speaker 1: and Obama had palettes of cash. They used that cash
Speaker 1: not to uplift their own people. They used it to
Speaker 1: kill Jews, kill Americans wherever they might be located. And
Speaker 1: funding Hesbela Hamas Boca Ram, they funded the Hoodies. They
Speaker 1: did everything they can and now we have we have
Speaker 1: the go ahead to assist Israel by Muslim states who
Speaker 1: wants the whole thing to be over and that's the
Speaker 1: way it ought to be. Well, Congressman, we got to go.
Speaker 1: I know, in the next few weeks before July fourth,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have your the blow torch and the pliers
Speaker 1: are gonna come out. You're gonna have to make a
Speaker 1: big decision and it'll be based upon what that bill
Speaker 1: looks like. But Warren Davidson, once again, thanks for coming
Speaker 1: on the Bill Cunningham Show. And Warren, you're a great American.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you too. And another great highlight was Army's birthday.
Speaker 3: What a great event. How about that, American?
Speaker 2: How about that?
Speaker 1: How about you were you were a ranger, you went
Speaker 1: to West Point. The juxtaposition of Donald Trump and the
Speaker 1: soldiers with the American flag marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, and
Speaker 1: compare that to what happened in Coortland, what happened in Chicago,
Speaker 1: what happened in Austin, what happened in La what happened
Speaker 1: in San Francisco was unbelievable. The split screen only MSNBC
Speaker 1: did not like the American Parade on the two hundred
Speaker 1: and fiftieth anniversary of the Army's founding, of which you
Speaker 1: are a proud member. But once again, Warren Davidson, thank
Speaker 1: you very much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you. I mean Sarah Huckabee.
Speaker 4: Sanators had it right, you know, normal and crazy, and
Speaker 4: it was definitely on display during that parade.
Speaker 3: Normal people were happy about it.
Speaker 1: God bless you. I'm normal and sir are you. But
Speaker 1: thank you for your service. Thank you very much. Well,
Speaker 1: let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham on seven hundred WLW