WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.200 The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video. Tryout 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:06.400 scarecrows rent by mail service. Choose from over one hundred 3 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:09.240 and fifty thousand films and get Blu rays, four k's 4 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.240 and DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow dot 5 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:14.039 com today. 6 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:23.960 Oh j is folks, It's showtime. People say, good money 7 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:24.839 to see this movie. 8 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:26.399 When they go out to a theater. 9 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:30.440 They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in 10 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:31.440 the projection booth. 11 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.439 Everyone for ten podcasting isn't boring? 12 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:35.159 Put it off? 13 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:57.000 What city please like? 14 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.000 I'm in Hollywood and I want to report a murder. 15 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.239 I'm detective starting a Lloyd Hopkins with the police department. 16 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:06.959 It's about Julie Neimar Yea. 17 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.480 Actually, I was thinking about calling you, guys. 18 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:10.000 I just didn't know what to say. 19 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:11.120 Why do you kill her? 20 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:16.200 There's a dangerous man on the loose. 21 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:19.840 All I care about is stopping his maniac before he 22 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:25.760 kills a Can do you understand? Come on, Dutch, you're 23 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.640 blown away abroad state. The least you can do is 24 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:28.280 drive her home. 25 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:35.519 His boss thinks he's trouble. If you go to the media, 26 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:37.879 I'll crucify you. 27 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:39.319 You wanted that day, don't you? 28 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:40.959 How can you tell? 29 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.120 You always shake just a little. 30 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:46.200 His friends think he's crazy. 31 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.000 Now one day should spend up in the force, breaking 32 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:53.480 an entering, robbery and now possible murder. But he got 33 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:54.239 lined up for tonight. 34 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:56.840 Women think he's a menace. 35 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.439 Would you do that? 36 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:04.239 Why would you do that? 37 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:09.159 Try to think of a three letter word for explosive? 38 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:14.800 A cop, you gotta take me in. 39 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:17.319 Well, there's some good news and there's some bad news. 40 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:23.639 The good news is you're right. I'm a cop and 41 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:27.520 I gotta take you in. Bad news is I've been 42 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.960 suspended and I don't give up any. 43 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:38.039 Cop. James Woods in the most startling performance of his 44 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.520 career with Leslie Ann Warren and Charles Derning. When a 45 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:48.360 man cares too much? How far is too far? 46 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:55.840 Welcome to the Projection Booth, I'm your host. Mike White 47 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:57.439 joined me once again as mister. 48 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:01.680 Rod Lott Innocence kills j Also. 49 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:03.319 Back in the booth is mister Andrew Netty. 50 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:05.719 You blow away a broad's DT. The least you can 51 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:06.719 do is drive a home. 52 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.039 We wrap up Noirvember with a request from Dallas Novell 53 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:14.639 Cop released in nineteen eighty eight. The film was the 54 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:18.080 first time James Elroy's fiction was adapted for the big screen. 55 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:21.879 Adapted by writer director James B. Harris, the film stars 56 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:26.199 James Woods as Detective Lloyd Hopkins, a genius super cop 57 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:29.639 who stumbles onto a mystery eighteen years in the making. 58 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:33.319 We will be spoiling the film as well as Elroy's 59 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:36.560 original source novel Blood on the Moon, as well as 60 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:38.800 other things as we go along. So if you don't 61 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.159 want anything ruined, to turn off the podcast and come 62 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:44.120 back after you've seen the movie, read the book, et cetera, 63 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.199 et cetera. We will still be here. So, Rod, when 64 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.319 was the first time you saw Cop and what did 65 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:49.759 you think? 66 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.360 I saw it first when it came out, actually in 67 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.879 theaters at the nearest theater to my house, which was 68 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:00.840 a little place called French Market Mal twin Cinemas, Oklahoma City. 69 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:03.960 I think it shut down a year later, but mal 70 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.240 is a not exactly the right word for it. It's 71 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.840 just a small indoor maybe twenty four stores total. It 72 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.319 was designed to look like New Orleans kind of, so 73 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:17.199 it's very strange. But the theater was on its last 74 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.839 legs at that point, and I think could see that 75 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.160 it was like eighty eight, so I would have been seventeenth. 76 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:24.600 At the time. 77 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:26.079 I was going to a lot of movies since I 78 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:29.759 had a driver's license. Corralled my brother into it, telling 79 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:31.439 him it was going to be just like Above the 80 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:34.800 Law with Steven Segall. It wasn't. He didn't care for 81 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.480 that comparison. But I remembered liking it, but I didn't 82 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:42.240 love it, and I wasn't sure exactly how to interact 83 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.920 with it because at that point I hadn't seen a 84 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.759 cop movie quite like this, which I'm sure we'll get into. 85 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.240 At the time, I was kind of a fan of 86 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.160 James Woods, not today necessarily, but he was a really 87 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.959 good run at that late eighties with the B level 88 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:04.480 modestly budd well reviewed but underperforming thrillers like this True 89 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:07.759 Believer with Robert Downey Junior bestseller written by Larry Cohen, 90 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:12.319 and this I think is the best of those. I 91 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:15.360 was also a big fan of Brandy Brooks, who's in 92 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.000 this briefly, but for very different reasons. Yeah, I liked it. 93 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.000 This is the fourth time I've seen it, and I 94 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:25.560 think it's probably the best of those viewings because you know, 95 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.279 being middle aged now as opposed to all the previous 96 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:31.040 other times, I picked up a lot more on it 97 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:32.480 than I have ever before. 98 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:34.399 And Andrew, how about yourself? 99 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:36.879 Yeah, I was thinking about this. When did I first 100 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:39.000 see cop and I can't remember. It was a long 101 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:41.759 time ago, maybe back in the early nineties, I can't remember. 102 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.879 I liked it then, We're gonna must have watched it 103 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:48.439 four or five times since then, I think, I mean, 104 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.120 as in my opinion, I wrote something for this for 105 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.079 this website that was I don't think it exists anymore. 106 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.879 It was called back Ali Noirs and they, you know, 107 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.600 and I wrote an article where I said that it 108 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.040 will I think the best el Roy adaptation, and by 109 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:06.360 that I don't mean the best film, but the best 110 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:12.319 film that had actually channeled Elroy's spirit and work and 111 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.000 essential nastiness. And I still think that that was. That 112 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.240 was quite controversial that post. I think someone even had 113 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:23.199 to pull in what was his name, Eddie Muller, because 114 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.399 of course there's only one person who really knows anything 115 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.839 about NOAA in the entire world, and that's Eddie. So 116 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:31.600 what does Eddie think about? You know, this view that 117 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.319 copp is the best Elroy adaptation, et cetera, et cetera. 118 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.920 I still think it's great Woods Drunk Deep, the margakool Aid. 119 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:42.639 But let's for a moment separate the art from the artist. 120 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.439 He was amazing in the eighties and in the early 121 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:48.000 nineties or just a run of incredible films. We can 122 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.240 talk about that. He's fantastic. He's kind of like the 123 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.279 original bad Lieutenant in this, I think, And it's I 124 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:56.120 have read the book. I didn't get around to reading 125 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:57.839 at this time. I liked the book. I liked the 126 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.000 Floyd Hopkins books. I don't this time around. I was 127 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:04.079 probably a little bit more critical of the movie. But 128 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:06.680 I still think it works. And it's just good narrative 129 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:10.839 drive that I just think is really really just pushes 130 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.279 away all the stuff in the film that doesn't work. 131 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.120 It's also a completely you know, it's how to make 132 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.920 a nineteen eighties crime film. Have seen it a number 133 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:22.680 of times. Still think it's a great film. 134 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.319 Yeah, I don't remember the first time that I saw this. 135 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:27.199 I want to say it might have been when I 136 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:32.480 was in college. I definitely watched it post Elie Confidential 137 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.720 at one point, and I imagine that that person who 138 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:37.600 is going off on you was probably thinking La Confidential, 139 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.120 which I can see your point. That's probably the best 140 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:45.959 movie that's loosely based on an el Roy book, but 141 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:48.560 it is not the best adaptation. I mentioned when we 142 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:52.000 talked about Eli Confidential that the book and the movie 143 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:56.399 are so completely different, but they are both genius. And 144 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:00.360 this I do agree is it really does cap sure 145 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:05.759 that means spiritedness, that almost apocalyptic vision of La that 146 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.879 Elroy really, you know, minds every single time he goes 147 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:13.040 to his typewriter. It's also kind of a good thing. 148 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.040 I mean, Lloyd Hopkins in the book is a little 149 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.839 bit of a bigger person, not quite a Jack Reacher 150 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:21.839 type of a person, but he's a bigger guy. Woods 151 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:25.680 is not a shrimp by any means. And also, Lloyd 152 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.680 Hopkins in the book is purported by many people to 153 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.320 be a genius. And James Woods, yes, despite his politics, 154 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:36.240 is literally a genius. Like I think he's a MENSA member, 155 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:41.440 very super smart guy, and it makes sense that he 156 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.679 plays this character who's both incredibly slimy, which Woods pulls 157 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.000 off every single time he wants to be a bad 158 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:53.600 guy on screens or every single film, pretty much every 159 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:58.200 single film he's made, whether he's the hero in video 160 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.919 drome or you know, the the secret bad guy and 161 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:05.840 something like the Specialist or something like. He's always slimy, 162 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.000 which I really like about him. I mean his small 163 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.559 turn in something like Night Moves. He's perfect in that, 164 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:17.360 and he's great in this as far as he wants 165 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:20.159 to uphold the law, but he will do anything that 166 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:23.200 it takes to uphold the spirit rather than the actual 167 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:26.399 literal law that is going on. He is very much 168 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:30.159 that cop. Outside of the police department. He has given 169 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:32.720 carte blanche a lot of times by his superiors because 170 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:34.960 he is so smart and he can go out and 171 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.720 figure these things out. He figures out that there's a 172 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.240 serial killer, and no one else on the entire force 173 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.279 of many, many different police departments was able to put 174 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.440 that stuff together. But he is. And I think that 175 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:53.039 the casting of Woods as Lloyd Hopkins really just fit 176 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.559 very perfectly his persona and his demeanor. 177 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:02.200 It's interesting because I always like James Woods as an actor, 178 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:06.279 but the character itself, and I had not read the 179 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:11.600 book until we were prepping for this, how unlikable the 180 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.039 character is. But you have to he has to walk 181 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:18.120 that line of playing an unlikable character while still being 182 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:20.879 just likable enough for the audience to be on his 183 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:24.480 side because you still root for him despite him being 184 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:28.159 just a terrible person. That's not easy to do. 185 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.360 And he did it so effortlessly in so many films. 186 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:34.759 I don't know how he does it, but yeah, it's 187 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:35.600 not easy to do. 188 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:39.240 James B. Harris too is a really interesting filmmaker. I mean, 189 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:44.000 not a huge over, but has done some really interesting films, 190 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:47.240 I think. And I was reading somewhere you know what 191 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:49.559 because he of course he worked with Kubrick too, so 192 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:55.120 seriously serious lineage there, and he learned his craft from 193 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:57.919 Kubrick And I was reading that, you know what did 194 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:01.000 he learn from Kubrick? And it's like, you know, casting 195 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.039 his eighty five percent of the film. If you cast 196 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:06.240 the right people, they're disciplined, they know their lines, and 197 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:08.120 they're great actors, you're going to get a lot of help. 198 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:10.720 I mean, you know, he learned some other things from 199 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:15.360 Kubrick too, But I think that's the Woods thing. Woods 200 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:19.919 is Floyd Hopkins, you know, and he's so to your point, right, 201 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:23.240 He's so good in this and he's so nasty, so venal, 202 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:27.120 he's so sleezy. It's a terrible thing, but I still 203 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:30.000 laugh everything. It's a terrible thing. But when you know, 204 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:32.960 trying to come on to the to the woman who's 205 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:36.840 the feminist who owns the bookstore. He's just basically comes 206 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:41.639 on to every single woman that he he basically encounters 207 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:46.639 quite successfully. It seems, you know, he's so venal and sleazy, 208 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:48.559 and it just it works. 209 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.200 I think it helps that he's not you know, I mean, 210 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:55.519 he's a handsome guy, but he's not Carrie Grant or 211 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:59.039 anything like that. He's park marked. You know, he has 212 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.879 very thin lips. They sort of go diagonal every now 213 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.159 and then, and he's fallible. I think that does help 214 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.600 the character. It makes him a little more relatable. Well, 215 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:12.600 he's doing these terrible, terrible things. James woods Man, this 216 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:17.320 was he was never better than late eighties to early nineties. 217 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:20.200 I would say, we've got Once upon a Time in 218 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.879 America where he plays possibly one of the most disagreeable 219 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:27.919 Prohibition gangster's ever put on screen. He's got Salvador, which 220 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:31.519 is great, which is terrific in bestseller and I totally 221 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.080 agree with you Rod that Bestseller is completely underrated film. 222 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:38.519 It's such a good anything with Larry Cohen touches is 223 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:39.159 pretty much. 224 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:42.080 Yeah. But Brian Deanna here is the cop and the 225 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.759 other guys as cleave the hit man who wants him 226 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:48.159 to write his sort of story, wants him to write 227 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.320 his bio digs down. You know, that's a terrific And 228 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:57.679 of course, come on, Lester Diamond in Casino. I mean 229 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:00.360 I could have done a whole less to Diamond film. 230 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:02.559 I really like him in the hard way. 231 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:09.159 It's absolutely don't you take that with me? Yeah, no, 232 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:15.159 it's such a good film, which is Woods taking the 233 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:17.240 piss out of himself too. So the guy I had 234 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:18.200 a sense of humor. 235 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:24.240 Once, Lloyd Hopkins is just so morally flawed, and I 236 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.720 love that. The scene in Elroy's book that really got 237 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:30.720 to Harris, that made him want to do this as 238 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:34.879 a movie was when Hopkins comes home for the day 239 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.480 and tells his little girl the whole story of the 240 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:43.159 perp who was robbing these apartment buildings and all this, 241 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:49.080 and he is not being very he's not bolderizing the 242 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.320 story at all. He's being very forthright with his little girl, 243 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.279 and they he has a huge argument with his wife 244 00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:00.960 about why protect your family, why protect women? From knowing 245 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:02.480 what's really going on out there. 246 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:04.600 Let me tell you something you should get through your head. 247 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.840 They're all little girls, Jan, every one of them, Every 248 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.519 one of those pathetic souls who eventually does herself in is. 249 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:11.360 A little girl. 250 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.080 Every neurotic lies on a couch and pays some assholes 251 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:16.000 only good money to listen to her bullshit is a 252 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.759 little girl. Every hooker I'll hustling or ask for up him, 253 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:21.440 winds up with a dyke, a habit, or wasted by 254 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:23.000 some psychopath. 255 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:23.360 Is a little girl. 256 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:26.039 All these little girls have one thing in common, you 257 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:29.360 know what That is disillusionment, and it always comes from 258 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:29.919 the same thing. 259 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:31.240 Expectations. 260 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:35.000 The greatest woman killer of all time, a terminal disease 261 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.480 that starts way back when they're all just little girls, 262 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.080 when they're being fed all a bullshit about being entitled 263 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.519 to happiness like it's a birthright. That's what you don't 264 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.440 understand when to stop perpetrating the myths that ruin their lives. 265 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.799 Innocence kills Jan. Believe me, it kills I see it 266 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:51.799 every fucking day of my life. 267 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.240 And really, so much of this movie is about this 268 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:58.360 idea of do you live in this fantasy? World, or 269 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.879 do you live in the real world, Hopkins is very 270 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.320 much like people should really live in the real world. 271 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.879 I'm trying to prepare my daughter for what the world 272 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:07.919 is giving me. You know, I'm the kind of person 273 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.320 who can walk into a apartment building, open up a door, 274 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.919 and see a woman hanging there, gutted, and still have 275 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.919 the calm, cool collectiveness to go through all of our things, 276 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.840 light up a cigarette and just wait for the rest 277 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:24.759 of the cops to arrive while I riffle through everything 278 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.120 and steal evidence. Basically because he knows this is the 279 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.000 kind of person that I need to protect. This innocent person, 280 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:33.679 very much like my daughter, is the kind of person 281 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.879 I need to protect. And then you contrast that with Kathy, 282 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:40.679 the Leslie N. Warren character, who just lives in this 283 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:45.600 whole fantasy world of poetry and journaling, and she seems 284 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.759 to have made up this whole story about her court 285 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:52.320 and all this stuff, even though we'll talk about her 286 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:56.679 origin story versus his origin story versus the killer's origin story, 287 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.720 because they definitely change those things around. I see it 288 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:02.759 more in the book as far as the fantasy world 289 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:06.919 that she lives in, because that character that Kathy hasn't 290 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:07.480 been raped. 291 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.120 That bedtime story thing, that's like the first high point 292 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.879 in the movie for me. I remember that vividly from 293 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.120 the first screen. Tell me how you got the scumbag daddy. 294 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.120 That's a good line. And I'm glad that they from 295 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.240 the book That girl's twelve, which is way too old 296 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.600 for a bedtime story or to be tucked in by 297 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:33.279 daddy or anything like that, so aging her down was 298 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.039 perfect for that. Putting all three kids into one was 299 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:40.120 a good idea. But that, yeah, that scene is incredible. 300 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:45.279 And you mentioned him going into the apartment. He not 301 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.879 only goes in, but he first tries to kick the 302 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.120 door in and fails, And that's like, oh my gosh, 303 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.559 this is like a non movie movie. Because cops can 304 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.279 kick the doors down, of course they can, this one cannot. 305 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.399 He fails to do it, and I think that I 306 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.440 remember that help me off guard at first, and it 307 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.519 still did this time. I completely forgot about it. And 308 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.799 he also contaminates the crime scene by touching the door knob, 309 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.559 Like he does all these things wrong, and he like 310 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.319 even touches the door knob after he sees blood seeping 311 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:18.279 under the door with cockroaches stuck in it, which I 312 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:20.119 do like because that's not the kind of detail you 313 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.680 normally get from these things. He's doing his job well 314 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.200 but also not well. He succeeds in spite of himself. 315 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:31.200 He plays Johnny Law while breaking laws and breaking rules. 316 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.400 And I like that dichotomy and just the whole like you, 317 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:37.640 like you mentioned that, the doubling, the contrast we get 318 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.200 with all the characters. It's it's really. 319 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:46.799 Interesting Kathleen, that's that's that's classical or the feminist book 320 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:50.799 you know, his cliche of a feminist bookshop owner. I 321 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:52.799 think that character is a bit weak. And I do 322 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.799 think the ceial the serial killer when he actually finds 323 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.440 him in the whole serial killer plot is very under baked, 324 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:03.240 I thought the time. But again, the film has such 325 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.720 an impressive narrative drive, and it's so well put together, 326 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.440 and Woods carries it so well that it kind of 327 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:17.160 pushes what are otherwise quite serious narrative failings in the 328 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.640 story aside, and you kind of don't really notice them. 329 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:25.119 It's taken me at least five viewings to notice that, oh, 330 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.640 that doesn't quite work. You know, there's a problem with this, 331 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.119 But I'd still I still think and I probably was 332 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.160 being more critical this time because I was watching the 333 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:35.400 film with a purpose for a podcast. But I still 334 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.519 think it. I still think it works fantastically. 335 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.359 One the one thing I noticed and related to Leslie 336 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:45.400 and Horren's character. You know, when they're out on there, 337 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:47.839 I guess you call it a date, and he talks 338 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.079 about going by their old high school and she's like, no, 339 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:51.920 don't go there. I don't want anything to do with 340 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.680 that place. And so then they go to her house 341 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.240 and she's going to take a bath before they're supposedly 342 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.480 going to have sex, and what does he do for 343 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.640 the what's on the coffee table? It's a high school yearbook, 344 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.440 because of course, if you hated high school, you would 345 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:05.519 just leave your high school yearbook. 346 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:06.079 Yeah. 347 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:09.640 Sure, that's the first time I noticed that that that 348 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.920 was And that's you know, it has to it serves 349 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.440 the plot, it gets you through faster. But yeah, that's 350 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.440 stuck out for me. I do like, I love Leslie 351 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.880 and Warren as an actress, but I do think that 352 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.680 part where she's introduced and they meet, it slows the 353 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.720 movie down for me for about fifteen to twenty minutes. 354 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.119 It sort of shifts into a lower gear it's not bad, 355 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.680 but it just it. It definitely changes the speed of things. 356 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:39.079 But it is at the midpoint of the movie, so 357 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:41.119 I get way why they did it. 358 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:47.319 But it's also about how absolutely Venal Hopkins's as a character. 359 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.920 She's telling him that terrible story about what she experienced 360 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:52.119 the school, and he says, hey. 361 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.279 Look, I got to the rape book here, I might 362 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:55.920 as well go for the hall in Chilada. 363 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.240 You know, it's like he's got no sensitivity at all. 364 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.480 It's just totally and you know, if she looks away 365 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.319 and he looks at he's watching yourns, I mean, such 366 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:08.759 a scumbag, such a complete scumbag. 367 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.559 That scene is fascinating just to watch his face, just 368 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:15.920 to watch him while she's laying out that story, and 369 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.519 Harris knows. Harris has that shot done so well to 370 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:22.799 have her on the right side of the screen telling 371 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.599 that very personal story, and to have him on the 372 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:27.640 left side of the screen kind of facing us a 373 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.200 little bit more, and we're just locked in. I'm just 374 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.880 locked in on him more than her telling her horrific 375 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.680 origin story. Yeah. I did write down the note that 376 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.799 he what he says to his wife after he's been 377 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.880 talking with his daughter, and he says, in its sense 378 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.480 is a terminal disease that starts way back when they're 379 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.240 just little girls, when they're being fed all the bullshit 380 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.240 about being entitled to happiness, like it's a birthright. That's 381 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.240 what you don't understand when to stop perpetrating myths that 382 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:58.200 ruin their lives. And I love that his little girl, 383 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.799 she's got a couple decorations on her wall, but one 384 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.160 of them is a hand drawn picture of a cop basically, 385 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.319 and it's just like, you know, I'm surprised he doesn't 386 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:11.279 say daddy. Underneath that he's got his father figure with Dutch, 387 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:18.079 the Charles Derning here. Oh, he's always wonderful, And I 388 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.240 like that he gets two phone calls from Lloyd basically 389 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:24.519 like I need your help covering up this shit. Like 390 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.160 both times I think he's just like, hey, yeah, I've 391 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.839 done some bad things or I've found this crime scene, 392 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.359 but basically I want you to run this thing and 393 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.640 you know, get going on this stuff. It's weird because 394 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:37.759 he's very much a father figure, but at the same 395 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:42.400 time he is kind of a servant to Lloyd. Meanwhile, 396 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.480 you've got Raymond Jay Berry in here is Captain Fred Gaffney, 397 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:48.640 who I think has a bigger role in the movie 398 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:50.839 than he does the book. He just keeps showing up 399 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:55.559 and basically upsetting things. And he's this big ultra Christian, 400 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.920 which I found to be interesting that it's his faith 401 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:03.400 that conflicts with what Lloyd does. Like he knows how 402 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.359 we've mentioned the word venyl, Like he knows how venial 403 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:09.599 Lloyd Hopkins is all the time. And he just does 404 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:13.319 not approve of Hopkins just because he's running around on 405 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.480 his wife all the time. And Derning also doesn't really 406 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:20.640 the Pelts character, Dutch Pelts doesn't agree with that either, 407 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:23.799 but he kind of lets that slide, like that's you know, 408 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.319 Lloyd's one little problem that he has is that he 409 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.319 sleeps around with other women all the time. And yeah, 410 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.880 literally picks up a woman from a crime scene after 411 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.000 he's just blown away her. 412 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.880 Date and gets Dutch Shells to do the you're tired, Dutch, 413 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:41.960 do you feel like doing the paperwork? Well, I tell 414 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.400 you why, I drive this woman home. You know, he 415 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.880 meets Kathleen and then he takes it to the party. 416 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:54.720 It's just like absolutely no no shame about anything this guy, 417 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.640 you know, and there's that there's that great scene with 418 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:02.440 Julian Nemi, other woman who's who's sort of link in, 419 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:05.079 not is it Julian Nemo? Who is that? Who is 420 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:08.279 the woman? The old slightly older woman, So Julian Nemi 421 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.319 is the woman who was killed at the very beginning, 422 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:14.000 I think no. And then there is that woman who's 423 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.519 kind of like the hook go who runs the sort 424 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.319 of swinger party, Joni prattry Brooks. And then and then 425 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.839 and then you know, he sleeps Jooney Pratt and we 426 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:26.119 figure out, we find out that someone's watching them. And 427 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.400 later on, you know that the Right to Life cop 428 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:32.440 is showing him the picture and going, look at this, 429 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.240 what do you think this is? And you know, for 430 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:38.119 it do you think it is? You know, it's it's 431 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:43.440 me having sex with this woman. You know, he's's completely shameless. 432 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:47.359 When he brings Leslie to the party, Charles dernings party, 433 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.039 and Charles Derning's wife is just like a ghast, what 434 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.000 are you doing? You're a married you know she hasn't 435 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.640 seen this face like, you're a married man and you're 436 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.480 bringing this woman here to our party. Well it looks 437 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.400 like a things giving party practically, because Derning's carving that turkey, 438 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.920 and Charles Derning has this great little aside where he 439 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.440 just looks at his wife and it's like shakes this, 440 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.440 you know, moves his hand back and forth like let 441 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.440 it go. Don't say a word. He probably does that 442 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.519 every day at work, like telling, you know, to other cops, 443 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.119 to Raymond Barrier's character, just like I'll get it, I'll 444 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:24.200 get it. I'll deal with him. He's mine, you know, 445 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.559 he's my son in quotes son. Yeah, he's definitely. He 446 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.559 definitely is the dad character. But James Woods is like 447 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:35.799 the uncontrollable kid. Basically, it's like he's going to do 448 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:40.240 the opposite of what his parents say until he needs 449 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.519 to be bailed out, and then it's like, hey, Dad, 450 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.559 bail me out. I need your help. That's exactly what 451 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:46.680 the relationship is like. 452 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:50.480 Yeah, and Dutchess there for him every single time. I 453 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.519 found it interesting though, that they changed what happens at 454 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:55.480 that party from the book to the movie. And we'll 455 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.079 definitely talk a little bit more about the book slash 456 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:02.000 movie stuff. But in the in the book, I think 457 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:07.200 it's Dutch has gotten a promotion, and right, he got 458 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.960 a promotion and then he's going to be not in 459 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.599 that same position to help out Lloyd, and Lloyd calls 460 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:17.160 him Judas and slaps him in the face in front 461 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.160 of everyone, and somehow I think that's what starts the 462 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:28.200 IA investigation of him and gets him suspended and puts him, 463 00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:30.319 you know, even more on the outs with the law, 464 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.000 whereas with this one, he's just talking about what a 465 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.200 needle dick the Raymond J. Berry character is, and turns 466 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:39.200 around and there he is, and that's what gets him 467 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.160 in trouble, and I'm just like, wow, I would think, 468 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.279 like the slap of Dutch in front of everyone is 469 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.559 much more egregious than just like making fun of your boss. 470 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.279 Now he's right behind me, isn't he. 471 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:54.279 Audience has loved Charles Derney even as a kid. I 472 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.160 loved Charles Derney. I don't think you could get away 473 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:01.559 with that in this movie. I can see why James 474 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:04.160 Harris changed it, assuming it was Harris that did so. 475 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.720 But it's just like, you know, a bridge too far. 476 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.519 For a me, and Dutch still wants to help him out. 477 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:13.599 I mean, Dutch is really the savior in the book 478 00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:17.000 that comes along out of pretty much nowhere and figures 479 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:20.119 out what Lloyd is doing because in the in the book, again, 480 00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:22.559 sorry to go back to it, but it's the whole 481 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.799 thing with the tape recorder that he finds outside of 482 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.920 Whitey's place, and that tape recorder becomes that major piece 483 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:35.279 of evidence because it's such a specialized machine that only 484 00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:39.240 what like twenty one have been sold around Los Angeles 485 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:41.680 for the last however many years, and it was only 486 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.799 made for like one year kind of thing, so they're 487 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.480 able to track down who owns that stuff. And the 488 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:51.000 whole thing is after Lloyd has already figured out who 489 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.200 the killer is, then Dutch has to follow in his 490 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:56.559 footsteps and start making those same calls as to who 491 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.240 owned this or who bought this tape recorder. But in 492 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.440 this it really it doesn't work that way at all. 493 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.680 It's fine, real player in the bushes, well not really bushes, 494 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.200 but you know, on the wall outside, and I'm thinking, man, 495 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.000 someone has to switch out those reels that real to 496 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.240 real tape of the player. I don't know how often. 497 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.839 Like that'd be tough, Rod. 498 00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:23.759 Sometimes you just got to let art flow over you, 499 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.119 you know what I mean, it really I mean, and 500 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.440 I think this is why I think it's the best 501 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:31.599 it's the most faithful elroyd adaptation because if you really 502 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:36.000 forensically read up until the last three, which I haven't read, 503 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.920 but I mean I've read every single other thing that 504 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:43.039 Elroy wrote, and I read the Floyd Hopkins, the three 505 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.640 Floyd Hopkins novels. I think I've read them two or 506 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.599 three times in the past. You can start to pick 507 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.119 Elroy apart easily. I mean it doesn't, you know, but 508 00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:00.640 it's just that frenetic pace, the dialogue, the narrative that 509 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.319 this you know that that el Roy achieves, which this, 510 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:06.759 all that stuff just gets flicked. 511 00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.000 Aside, shortcuts. It like shortcuts the story. It just keeps 512 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:10.799 moving in along movie. 513 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:13.000 Yeah, I mean, you don't have time to think about, 514 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.160 oh that it didn't make a great deal of sense. 515 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.319 How did that work? It just it's onto the next, 516 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:20.559 onto the next thing, Onto the next Floyd Hopkins atrocity, 517 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:23.400 onto the next on to the next woman that Floyd 518 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.759 is seducing, Onto the next drama, on to the next argument. 519 00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:27.160 You know. 520 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.559 Yeah, it really stuck out to me this time because 521 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.920 I never questioned it before. But I think with today's 522 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:37.200 technology and they're you know, if a teenager was to 523 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.640 watch this today, they probably wouldn't even know what a 524 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:44.160 real to real player is. They might not know, so 525 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.359 it really sticks out today. It's so analog, but I mean, 526 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:50.039 I wouldn't change it. I still love it. 527 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:54.480 Elroy sets it up in the book about that tape recorder. 528 00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:59.640 He says that it is such a model that it 529 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:04.640 does require I think it could record for a ton 530 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.160 of hours. I want to say, it like switched out 531 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.920 different tapes and things. And it also is it's activated 532 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:16.039 with Whitey's door, so it only turns on once the 533 00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.160 door is closed. So it was very much just like 534 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.000 it wasn't voice activated. You know. I don't know if 535 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:24.799 we had that technology at that time, but it was 536 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:27.680 such that it would only record when he got home 537 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.240 from work kind of thing. So el Right sets up 538 00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:32.799 this whole thing with a tape recorder that has such 539 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:35.680 a long length to it. But then the killer comes 540 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.720 back like the next day and finds that the recorder 541 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.079 is gone. He's just like ah, and it's like, no, 542 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:44.319 he only recorded four hours worth of stuff on this tape. 543 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.759 He shouldn't have been back the next day, so it 544 00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:51.799 was odd. But I mean, the book definitely goes back 545 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:56.160 and forth between Hopkins and Teddy just back and forth, 546 00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:58.119 back and forth. And I know he's not Teddy in 547 00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.920 the movie. He's what Bobby Franco I think is his name. 548 00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.519 So he just goes back and forth between those two. 549 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.119 And it's interesting because you look at other cop thrillers 550 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.079 at the time and you think about, like, how often 551 00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:12.880 do we see the killer and we see him see 552 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:16.200 those killers in different amounts in all of these kind 553 00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:18.240 of films, and the few of them that stuck out 554 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:20.640 to me were things like The Hero and The Terror, 555 00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:24.119 where the Terror is actually like second build kind of thing, 556 00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:28.319 or you get like Nighthawks where You've got it was 557 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:31.839 Nighthawks right with Rutger Hower as the bad guy in 558 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:34.640 that Sylvester Sloan Ability Williams. 559 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:34.920 Yeah. 560 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.160 So it's like we follow these killers, but in this 561 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:41.079 one other than and you don't know it at the 562 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:43.839 time unless you're really paying attention. Other than the guy 563 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:47.119 who's at the post office watching Lloyd when he meets 564 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:51.599 up with Jony. You don't see the bad guy until 565 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:54.440 right towards the end, and there was a scene where 566 00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:59.920 he takes out Birdman, but apparently Harris was so displeased. 567 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.839 Now this is the story that Harris tells on the 568 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.759 Auto Audio commentary. So Harris says that he was not 569 00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:08.880 really happy with the quality of acting from the guy 570 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.000 who was a stuntman. And by the way, he's the 571 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.960 same stuntman who Arnold Schwarzenegger uses as a human shield 572 00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:19.920 in total recall in that escalator scene, which I just 573 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.319 fucking love, and he's actor, slash, stuntman and a few 574 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:26.480 other things, and he didn't like the performance, so he 575 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.440 just cut out that scene. So we really don't see 576 00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:30.839 him until the very freaking end of the movie. And 577 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:34.519 I always wondered if that robed this movie of something, 578 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.000 or if it's better that we just stay with Woods, 579 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.160 because I'm trying to think of any scenes where Woods 580 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.079 isn't present, and I have a hard time thinking about that. 581 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:47.160 I can't think of any place where we don't see him. 582 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:50.079 Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. 583 00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:52.519 That was what stuck out to me reading the book 584 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.160 was it's it's like fifty to fifty essentially, I mean, 585 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:01.039 between Teddy and Lloyd, but the movie's not like that, 586 00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:05.319 and I'm glad it's becomes Lloyd's story. Changes have to 587 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:09.319 be made, and adapting for film completely different. I don't 588 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:14.000 think it would have worked because Teddy's story is I 589 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.599 don't know. It makes this more of a mystery, which 590 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.799 I like Teddy's story in the book is it's a 591 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.720 repeating of a lot of the same type of thing. 592 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.480 Although it would be interesting to see him stalk the 593 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.400 women and how he does it sort of as a procedural, 594 00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:33.400 I do like the fact that he's sort of sidelined 595 00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:36.559 until the very end, and it's more of a mystery 596 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.359 of like, who the hell is doing this and why? 597 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.519 It does help the suspense of it. 598 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.240 Well, then it makes you also wonder, is it Charles Hayde, 599 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:49.559 Is it even Leslie and Warren? At one point I'm thinking, like, 600 00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.160 very briefly, I'm thinking about Leslie and Warren. 601 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:54.559 Well, I agree. I remember the first time it was 602 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.039 very much like every one of these people could be 603 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.160 a red herring. You just didn't know. It's always good 604 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.720 when you cannot figure out now, when a movie is 605 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:08.319 able to not tricky necessarily but be way ahead of you, 606 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:10.680 that's always a good thing in my book. 607 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:15.319 Yeah, I thought Charles Hayde definitely. Well, I think the 608 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.039 first two or three times I saw this film, I 609 00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:21.440 thought Charles Haydes Cat because I think I think Sheriff 610 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.480 Dealbert Whitey Haines is a great It's a terrible person, 611 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:29.960 just a dreadful, slightly pasty, overweight Hollywood sheriff who's obviously 612 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.559 so corrupt. I thought that was the same guy who 613 00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.200 played Ralph in Happy Days for about the first three 614 00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.920 times that I saw this film, and then I looked 615 00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:40.640 it up with an MD because they kind of have 616 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.480 a similarity. They kind of look a bit the same, 617 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.119 and I thought that would be actually very cool if 618 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.720 that was the case, but obviously it wasn't. I thought 619 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.359 that Whitey Haynes was definitely and as it is, he 620 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:56.240 is completely suspected taking down male prostitutes and running drugs. 621 00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.599 So you know, I'd love in his apartment the Bustin' 622 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:03.240 Ass poster that he had up on his wall. It's 623 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.240 just basically a woman's butt in a thong and I 624 00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:10.119 think you see a police badge and yeah, bustin ass. 625 00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:12.519 It's classy. He didn't frame it. 626 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.079 People who read the book would know that it definitely 627 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.800 wasn't him because he and Birdman are the two that 628 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:26.079 again in the book rape Teddy, so rather than them 629 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:31.239 raping Kathy in this one, and that's an interesting thing. Well, obviously, 630 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:36.519 you know, very very different motivation for Teddy having been 631 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:39.920 raped by these two, and that really sets him off 632 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:44.360 on this whole psychotic journey of protecting Catherine and going 633 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:47.920 after women that reminded him of her court that she 634 00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:52.519 had when she was in high school. And that sets 635 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:55.440 up a parallel that we also don't get, where we 636 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.880 have Teddy being raped when he was what eight seventeen 637 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.679 something like that, and then you've got Lloyd being raped 638 00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:05.840 when he is. 639 00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:08.960 Eight I think it is, I've forgotten about that. 640 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:11.920 Yeah, So we have this whole thing. And then what's 641 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:16.039 interesting too is that his mother, Lloyd Hopkins's mother, is 642 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.719 the one who finds out who raped you. He can't 643 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.760 even say it, he has to write it down. She 644 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.559 takes that information, finds out that it was a guy 645 00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:29.320 from the neighborhood who is shell shocked from either must 646 00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:33.480 have been World War two or maybe Korea. And because 647 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.280 this is happening I guess in the late fifties, it is, 648 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:41.519 so she is the one that employs vigilante justice. Lloyd 649 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:46.519 follows her to the Silver Lake Power Plant and she 650 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.280 kills this guy puts six bullets into this shell shocked veteran. 651 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.440 And that weird thing that Lloyd says whence when they 652 00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:02.199 got home, she gave him her breast and lets him 653 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:05.760 sleep with her that night. This weird maternal thing that's 654 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:09.400 going on with that, which is absolutely wild. And then 655 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.639 where does the book end up. The book ends up 656 00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:14.199 at the Silver Lake power Plant, taking all of this 657 00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:17.639 stuff back to the beginning where Teddy and Lloyd face 658 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.400 off and it's like who can survive their trauma? Lloyd 659 00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:25.039 survives pretty well, except that he can't handle music because 660 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:28.559 music and TV all of these things were turned on 661 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.320 inside of the workshed where he was tied up after 662 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:34.199 his brother tied him up. And I'm glad that we 663 00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:36.079 don't have the brother, we don't have the parents, we 664 00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:38.480 don't have any of that stuff. I mean, he really 665 00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:42.119 Harrish just stripped down that narrative and I think making 666 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:47.840 Catherine the rape victim rather than our killer. But I mean, God, again, 667 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.400 what an amazing motivator to have this killer be raped 668 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.280 by these guys. And I love that whole attack of 669 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:58.440 him in the book where I think Whitey goes to 670 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:01.239 piss on him and finds out that he's hard and 671 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:03.679 then ends up raping the guy and then has Birdman 672 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:06.159 rape him as well. And then we see Birdman so 673 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.519 many later, so many years later as the street hustler, 674 00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:13.159 and it's just like, how this whole incident has affected 675 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:13.719 his life. 676 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:18.679 Well, Kathy's clown plays and like, you'll never hear the 677 00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:19.440 same way again. 678 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.239 Yeah, and then doesn't he right on the wall and 679 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:26.159 blood at the end, rather than let's go victors or 680 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:29.440 whatever it is, doesn't he write I am not Kathy's clown. 681 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.000 I don't remember that it's possible. 682 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.840 Yeah. That's what really tips Lloyd off is he goes 683 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:37.000 back to the year book. I mean that year book 684 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.559 and this whole high school trauma. It's like I always say, 685 00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:41.920 you know, so much trauma comes from high school comes 686 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.639 out in different ways. 687 00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:43.159 I suppose. 688 00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:46.239 Well, and that's where in the movie, it's out of school, 689 00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:50.960 right they meet at the end, that's where the finale is. Yeah, 690 00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:55.000 that to me, it's interesting that you get that shift 691 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:58.360 away from the book, Like all the stuff that happened 692 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:04.679 in school to Teddy now in the movie Teddy or 693 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:09.079 Now Bobby inflicted that upon Lesli and Warren's character at school. 694 00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:13.679 So that's where it ends here. It's interesting. I like it. 695 00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:19.360 I mean, I'm always intrigued just visually of empty schools 696 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.880 at night. For some reason, it always works. 697 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.039 It's like the finale of La Confidential taking place at 698 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.159 the Victory Hotel, where it's a lot of bad stuff 699 00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.840 happened here. He might as well say that, as he's 700 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:32.960 going back to that high school, a lot of bad 701 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:33.920 stuff happened here. 702 00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.920 Is it too early to talk about that last line 703 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:38.519 right now? 704 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:38.400 No? 705 00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:41.519 I think it's always a good time to talk about 706 00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:42.400 that last line. 707 00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:44.599 Like I don't know, I don't want to ruin it 708 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.079 for those who haven't seen it. But what I remember 709 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:50.400 from from seeing the film the first time in the 710 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:56.599 theaters is an audience not sure how to react to 711 00:38:56.679 --> 00:39:00.199 that line, because it goes from that to black as 712 00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.760 he cocks the gun. It's like a perfect edit. 713 00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:06.760 Well, well, what aren't you going to read me by rights? 714 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.599 Cuff me, take me into. 715 00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:13.519 Custody, Why so you can sid in a nice comfortable cell. 716 00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:15.800 That's just a smart ass. Lay a cup in the sanity, 717 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:16.679 please at the idea. 718 00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:21.719 What's it to you on kins? You're a cop, you 719 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:22.480 gotta take me in. 720 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.639 Well, there's some good news and there's some bad news. 721 00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:29.559 The good news is you're right, I'm a cop and 722 00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.280 I gotta take you in. The bad news is I've 723 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:33.760 been suspended and I don't give a fuck. 724 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.239 And it just kind of floors you. And I think 725 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.800 today people might clap at something like that, but back 726 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.000 then it was dead silent. No one know what to 727 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:46.320 do with it. I didn't know how to react to it, 728 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:49.880 although I thought it was definitely interesting because I'd never 729 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.920 seen a movie in that way before. I think when 730 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:54.920 you talk about this movie today, those who have seen it, 731 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.760 remember that a lot. If more people had seen it, 732 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.800 you would see Cop talked about on the best Last Scenes, 733 00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:06.079 best last shots, best last lines, whatever, all those lists 734 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.559 that get done on the internet. I definitely think Cop 735 00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:09.960 would be on there a lot more. 736 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.199 And it's amazing to hear Harris talk about that in 737 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.480 that commentary and that it doesn't sound like it was 738 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:22.760 made up on the spot, because there is some of 739 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.639 that in the script. But they definitely changed the way 740 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:30.119 that the script ended. Basically, the movie was supposed to 741 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:35.440 end with them finding Teddy slash Bobby hung up by 742 00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:39.719 one leg, very much like the original victim that we saw, 743 00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:44.119 and then there's a title card that explains what happens 744 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.920 to everybody after the end of the movie, which is 745 00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:50.159 wild to me that they would go that far and 746 00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:54.440 have Lloyd having murdered the guy the same way. So 747 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:57.039 the title card appears and it says Lloyd Hopkins was 748 00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.199 suspended without pay for one year pending a hearing. At 749 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.840 that time, he is presently looking for work in the 750 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.159 San Francisco area. Janice Hopkins is suing for divorce and 751 00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:12.000 has plans to marry Bernard Plotkin, a Marin County psychotherapist. 752 00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.679 Arthur Dutch Pelts was promoted to commander in the Internal 753 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:22.599 Affairs Division, reporting directly to Commander Fred Gaffney MS Kathleen McCarthy, 754 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.119 which is nice that they kept the Miz sold her 755 00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:29.199 bookstore and now lives with Thelma Teddy Bailey, a Los 756 00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:33.880 Angeles Silver Liberties attorney, So they kept the Teddy in there, 757 00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:37.159 but changed it to the name of the woman that 758 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.199 she's now living slash sleeping with. 759 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:43.079 So she checked up with the lawyer that that represents 760 00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.400 her with Dutch that that you know, and she's that 761 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:48.559 woman who's sitting there. Yes, wasn't the problem one of 762 00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:50.800 the problem, one of the many problems with the making 763 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.480 of this film is that the studio wanted a dirty 764 00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:54.159 Harry film. 765 00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:57.079 That last letter is very dirty hardy yet yeah. 766 00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.320 Well exactly, and so they got that. But it's thinking 767 00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:03.559 about it, you know, they will worry because it's kind 768 00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:05.679 of like it's almost like a slasher film in some 769 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.599 respects and in some respects just thinking about it now, 770 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.119 it's also kind of arguably could be put in that 771 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.559 small group of American films which you would call American 772 00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:19.280 giallo's as well. It's actually, now that I think about it, 773 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:22.079 it actually has a lot of things in common with 774 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.559 that very small sort of body of film. So I mean, yeah, 775 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.920 it's more dirty. It ended up being more Dirty Harry 776 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.079 than it did being you know, but it combines that 777 00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:35.199 sort of slasher thing, it combines giallo elements. There's there's 778 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.280 all kinds of things in this It's quite sort of 779 00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:41.719 narratively sophisticated film as well as having real pace. 780 00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:46.480 A studio do you mean the Atlantic releasing group that 781 00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:49.559 put it out. There were so many indie labels in 782 00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:53.360 the eighties that were putting out movies like Wide and 783 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:55.800 they had I guess their biggest hit was Teenwolf, but 784 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.480 they did like the Garbage pil Kids movie. I remember 785 00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:02.760 seeing their low go on Paul Schrader's Patty Hurst Night 786 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.880 of the comment Steal Justice with Marvin and Cove. They 787 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.360 had like a Smurf's cartoon back in the eighties, and 788 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:14.039 it's just a strange time where yeah, Atlantic, they never 789 00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:17.000 think they didn't last much longer than this to be. 790 00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:20.559 According to Harris, this was one of the last three 791 00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:23.599 movies that Atlantic put out. He was talking about how 792 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:25.840 Ciskel and Ebert gave it two thumbs up, and he 793 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:27.760 was like, oh great, put it out on the poster, 794 00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:31.039 and they're like, we don't have money to rerun these posters. 795 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:34.880 I actually I remember I saw this movie because of 796 00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:39.119 Ciscol and Neighbor It's review back then, Like I worshiped 797 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:42.440 Cisco Niehburt, Like I grew up on their show and 798 00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:45.719 I learned a lot from those guys, and this was 799 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:47.679 one where I was like, yeah, I like it. I 800 00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:51.079 don't love it, but I'm glad I went to see it. Yeah, 801 00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:54.079 I definitely do remember that review because it got me 802 00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:55.039 in the seat. 803 00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:57.199 I was just looking up to see what else that 804 00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:59.679 they did. Well they did Valley Girl. Night of the 805 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:03.920 Common met very well. Extremities, even that was a rough one. 806 00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.639 You know how Roger Corman would import foreign films and stuff. 807 00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:11.320 Guess Cannon did that as well too, before making them 808 00:44:11.320 --> 00:44:15.480 move more towards just exploitation. They'd been around a while 809 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.280 back in the eighties when VHS hit, there were a 810 00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:23.119 ton of those labels. Every week there'd be things opening 811 00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:26.559 up from these little shingles. It was quite a time. 812 00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:29.159 You had your pick, You had your pick every week 813 00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.039 of many, many, many films. 814 00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:33.719 Well there was all that money slashing around too, you 815 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:34.639 know that. 816 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:36.000 Yeah, that's a good point. 817 00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:39.079 You know that, you know that we're making a movie. Yeah, 818 00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:40.639 do you want to invest? I mean that, you know, 819 00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:44.159 that's that's partly what's driving a lot of those little, 820 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:48.000 sort of small labels that are putting out really interesting 821 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:48.639 stuff like this. 822 00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:53.400 Speaking of Dirty Harry, this movie reminded me a lot 823 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:54.679 of tightrope. 824 00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:59.199 The Clinte movie, which is another American Giallo. 825 00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:03.280 Very sleazy, has the Herbo serial killer and actually, now 826 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:06.199 that I remember, Randy Brooks is in it as eye 827 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:09.039 candy again. But yeah, it plays like that. 828 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:10.920 Is that the one with the horror is that the 829 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.239 one people are killing people in the horror film or 830 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.000 something like, there's a horror film being I. 831 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.159 Think you're thinking of Deadpool. 832 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:21.519 I'm thinking of Deadpool. Sorry, yeah, I get that light Clintace, so, 833 00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.840 I get that Clintaste would cop fi is mixed up 834 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:25.840 a bit that because you know, but the. 835 00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:28.599 Killer when he kills Randy Brooks, and I think it's like, 836 00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:30.440 I don't know if it's the opening of Tirerope, but 837 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:31.960 it's soon into the beginning. 838 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:32.719 Uh. 839 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:36.519 He has this crazy like kabookie mask type thing on 840 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:40.719 that's really chilling to look at. She like gets into 841 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:43.840 a hot tub and is just soaky, like looks up 842 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.880 or something and sees this face staring out of her. 843 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.079 It's pretty pretty chilling. But Randy Brooks, so I mentioned 844 00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:54.320 her earlier as the woman who sets up these floating 845 00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:59.119 swingers parties with Really, that line to me is funny 846 00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:02.559 because she left acting to become a realtor. So I 847 00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:04.920 wonder if maybe she sets those things up now I'm 848 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:06.960 just kidding. She doesn't. I'm sure that you know of 849 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:09.599 that I know of. But the scene in the book 850 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:12.920 where he goes with her to the next swinger party, 851 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:15.679 which I think is that night he says, when your 852 00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:18.320 next one, I'm going as your date. And so he 853 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:22.320 goes there, gives a brief speech at the beginning like hey, 854 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.960 you guys have fun, I'm going to go upstairs and 855 00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.440 lay down. And then he goes upstairs and lays down 856 00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:30.480 like looks through you know, evidence or whatever. And then 857 00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:34.320 as he comes comes down to leave, like all the 858 00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:37.400 music is blaring and he has like this kind of 859 00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.440 a anxiety attack, I guess of swords, which ties back 860 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.840 to the trauma that Mike was talking about. I'm glad 861 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.280 they cut that because it was just it would have 862 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:46.719 been weird. 863 00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:49.079 But in the book, that's that's a chance for Erro 864 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:51.599 to chuck in a bit to b swinger clubs, a 865 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.360 bit of a swinger experience for the night Light nineteen seventies. 866 00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:54.559 You know. 867 00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:56.199 One of the things that he had in the book 868 00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:59.639 was where Teddy's for Plank I think is the last 869 00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:03.400 name the book, which I could see why they changed 870 00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:07.760 it to Bobby Franco works at a porno bookstore, and 871 00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:12.320 which I Olroy did for a brief time before it 872 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:13.559 came James L. 873 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:13.840 Roy. 874 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:18.119 But that again that the book gets and I don't 875 00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:21.440 remember if I'm reading this in Blood on the Moon 876 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.519 as was published or the La Death Trip version. Be 877 00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:29.079 it's really explicit about one of the encounters he has 878 00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:33.599 at the bookstore at like three am when he comes 879 00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.559 upon this guy. Don't read into that enjoying himself. 880 00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:41.000 That is definitely in Blood on the Moon. 881 00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:42.480 This movie could have been. 882 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:44.519 A lot nastier, which is saying something. 883 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:47.920 Which is saying something because it probably I don't remember 884 00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:50.920 what else was out that year that was like causing controversy, 885 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.599 not that this did, because it wasn't a blockbuster. It 886 00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:59.000 wasn't a project so much, but that would have made 887 00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:02.199 some headlines which we would have probably helped the box office. 888 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:07.079 They really toned down the homosexuality of the characters and 889 00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:12.519 just they race it. Yes, yeah, those very heterosexual posters 890 00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.639 in Whitey's room. I mean he does have those very 891 00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:19.760 nice padded leather cuffs. I mean, you are not going 892 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.320 to get any sort of marks on your wrist having that. 893 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.079 I mean that's a lot of padding in there. 894 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.079 So isn't there a box of Dudos as well? I 895 00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:29.679 think that or am I imagining this? I'm want projecting this. 896 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:35.159 I don't remember if that's the case, but I know that, Yeah, 897 00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.000 they definitely take out the whole thing where part of 898 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:41.920 Birdman's job is to basically take care of Whitey every 899 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.719 single time that he sees him, and yeah, really just 900 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:51.239 remove that whole homosexual angle altogether. And then Teddy slash Bobby, 901 00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:55.079 I don't think that he's being portrayed, even though he's 902 00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:57.960 very life and everything, I don't think that he's being 903 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.639 portrayed as gay either, which is ironic because you're talking 904 00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:04.599 about controversy and what three years later we're going to 905 00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.320 have Silence of the Lambs, which just gets a ton 906 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:11.239 of controversy with the Jamie Gumm James Grant character. 907 00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:15.159 And yeah, this was a time where AIDS was still 908 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:19.800 a public menace, basically something to fear, with all the 909 00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:21.880 you know, fake stories going around about how you could 910 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.639 catch it. And there are a lot of movies where 911 00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.280 the homosexual is the villain, and so it is kind 912 00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:33.280 of surprising just that all that is erased because it 913 00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:35.400 was part of the course back then. 914 00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.400 I guess I wanted to talk about another Thomas Harris 915 00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:43.159 adaptation to have Maynhunter a few years before this and 916 00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:48.079 have the reason why he takes I can't remember the 917 00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:52.320 reporter's name, but takes him out is because he printed 918 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:55.960 that the tooth Fairy was gay, and he doesn't. 919 00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:00.599 Like they planted yes to flush out the Toothpairy. Says, Fairy, 920 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:02.840 do you imply that I'm clear? 921 00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:06.280 God, no, before me. 922 00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:08.360 You're a slug in the sun. 923 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.239 You are pretty to a great becoming, and you recognize nothing. 924 00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:14.519 You're an antony afterbirth. 925 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:17.719 And it works too well almost, I mean even the 926 00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:20.239 name tooth Fairy. He doesn't like that either, because it 927 00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:22.440 implies that he's gay as well. 928 00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.599 There's another in the book going back to the homosexuality 929 00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:31.440 of the characters, where Lloyd Hopkins is looking in a 930 00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:35.039 car or something and a black guy is getting serviced 931 00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:39.559 and he's sort of comparing his own penis to his 932 00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:43.360 and wondering why he doesn't get blowjobs like this fat 933 00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:47.719 guy does, and starts thinking about why his wife doesn't 934 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:49.880 do that anymore, and it's just sort of this weird 935 00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:54.440 twisted you know, It's like he's partly admiring the guy 936 00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:56.639 while also despising him. 937 00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:59.920 Yeah, he really wants his wife to give him a 938 00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.719 low job and she will not do that. And I 939 00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:05.639 remember that line about how you know, would she take 940 00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:08.440 him in his mouth in her mouth at some point 941 00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:10.760 And I was just like, well, this is really odd. 942 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.000 Like he was so happy when he passed the detectives 943 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.480 exam or whatever, and he was just like, oh, you know, 944 00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:18.920 for sure Janis is going to give me a blowjob tonight. 945 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.400 But Nope, doesn't do that. And her whole thing too 946 00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:26.440 where because she leaves him very early in the movie. 947 00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.599 It goes on for a little bit longer in the book. 948 00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:30.679 And who does she go out with. She's got this 949 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:35.239 gay friend, George, and it feels like, well, that's okay 950 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:38.400 that she's hanging out with this gay guy because he's 951 00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:42.039 not a sexual threat in this world, and like he 952 00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:44.639 kind of gives that a passage. He's the one. Like 953 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:47.480 she actually moves out and moves in, I believe, with 954 00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:51.039 George and a friend of his, and then they have 955 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:52.800 this whole thing of like how she moves to San 956 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:54.960 Francisco is kind of like a coding for that. 957 00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:59.280 Not really say that guy people, You know, queer people 958 00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:02.199 have a good run at any any award book though, 959 00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.719 you know, just to say the least, you. 960 00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:11.039 Know, you think about that. Simon Baker character from La confidential. 961 00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:16.519 And I mean, god, there's a numerable fruit hustlers and 962 00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:19.800 rent boys and who always end up on the sort 963 00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.480 of killers slab at some point or another, collateral collateral 964 00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:24.639 damage to what's going on. 965 00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:28.639 I was just surprised that nobody's a shipbird in this movie. 966 00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:31.880 Floyd is a compound, as that says at one point, 967 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:32.679 I think that's you. 968 00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:34.760 Know, Olroy definitely has his turns of phrase. 969 00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:38.239 That's that's right, that's right, he does. He sure does. 970 00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.960 You know the Leslie and Warren character with the we 971 00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:45.639 mentioned the eearbook and how she wouldn't really have that 972 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.679 on her table if she, you know, hated high school 973 00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:51.239 so much, didn't want to think about it. But at 974 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:55.280 the end, and I did not remember this from previous viewings, 975 00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:59.199 is that she calls Bobby Franco to give him a 976 00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:05.360 heads up they're suspecting him of being a killer, and 977 00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.280 James Woods runs after her. You know, she's calling from 978 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:11.239 the payphone outside the police station, and he's screaming at 979 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.199 her like why would you do that? And I'm thinking 980 00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:17.280 the same thing, why would you do that? And her 981 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:18.079 reasoning is. 982 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:22.760 I thought he was innocent. I thought you would first 983 00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:27.239 keep what I thought was a talented and sensitive boy. 984 00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:29.679 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 985 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.719 Okay, she seems smarter than that. Even though she's latest 986 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:37.400 comes as woo woo. She probably is like into crystals 987 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.480 and things like that, even though they don't talk about that. 988 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:42.920 Just a weird character with her head in the clouds. 989 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:47.079 But it doesn't I don't know why she would do that. 990 00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:49.000 It doesn't make sense to me. 991 00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:52.360 Yeah, she does the same thing in the book, but 992 00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:54.800 he doesn't know about it, I don't think, or at 993 00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.360 least he doesn't know about it at first. And she 994 00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:02.320 directly is the one that gets Janice kilt because when 995 00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:08.039 she puts Teddy in the book onto Hopkins, he starts 996 00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:13.079 following Hopkins. Hopkins goes to visit Jonie and comes out 997 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.360 and next thing you know, there's a knock at the door. 998 00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:18.800 She thinks that Lloyd is back. No, it's Teddy, and 999 00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:23.320 he massacres her, and luckily Catherine is smart enough in 1000 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:26.079 the book to realize, oh, I was the one that 1001 00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:29.960 caused that. If I had not called him, that woman 1002 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:33.239 would still be alive, and that guilt haunts her for 1003 00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.400 the rest of the book, and she ends up leaving 1004 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.159 Lloyd at the end of the book, you know, even 1005 00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:40.119 though it seems like they're going to be together, she 1006 00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:43.639 ends up leaving and is like, I can't handle this 1007 00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:46.960 guilt and seeing you every single day is just making 1008 00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:50.639 it worse again. The kind of sins of the past. 1009 00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:52.960 I mean, so much of Elroy's work too, is just 1010 00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:56.039 sins of the past. And I think Leslie and Warren 1011 00:54:56.119 --> 00:54:58.480 really works in this role for me, because she's got 1012 00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:02.159 that voice, that little girl voice that she does, and 1013 00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:05.119 she just seems like a damaged little girl. She seems like, 1014 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:10.760 mentally at times, the same age as Penny the Daughter. 1015 00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:14.239 She didn't have a daddy who told her stories to 1016 00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:16.559 prepare her for the real world, so when she saw 1017 00:55:16.599 --> 00:55:20.119 how awful the real world is, she didn't know how 1018 00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:20.760 to handle it. 1019 00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:24.480 I thought about that. Actually, as she goes to smoke 1020 00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:27.480 a joint and take a bath before they are are 1021 00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:30.559 supposed to make love or have sex, I guess she 1022 00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:33.199 does call it make love, and she's talking about it 1023 00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.880 like kind of like a kid would, are we about 1024 00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:39.400 to make love? She just sort of flighty and does 1025 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:43.480 this like little boop thing with her finger and half 1026 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:45.760 dances out of the room. It is kind of a 1027 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:47.239 child she acts like a child. 1028 00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:50.239 You're right, it's it's play. I have a feminist though, 1029 00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.440 you know, it was one of these it's they're paying 1030 00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:54.920 out and all the feminist women that the other Dido 1031 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:57.559 didn't sleep with l I in the sort of light 1032 00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:00.559 seventies and eighties, you know it completely. What's that? You 1033 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:03.519 know when they when they find that what's that book 1034 00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:08.079 where he finds the body of Julianne Nemia Rage from 1035 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:10.960 the Womb, Rage from the Womb by Pamela van Dyke. 1036 00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:14.079 There's other bits though, that sort of work in the film. 1037 00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:14.320 I do. 1038 00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:17.159 I do like a good piece of analog police work. 1039 00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:20.320 And I think that scene where he's pulled all the 1040 00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:23.880 files and he stays up all night going through the files. 1041 00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:29.280 He's going, no to black, too young, not innocent, not innocent, 1042 00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:30.880 Talk to me, Talk to me. I just think that's 1043 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.559 a great that's actually quite believable. That's quite a quite 1044 00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:36.800 a good scene, I think. And you know, his police 1045 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:41.039 work seeds are terrific. I mean when when he Floyd 1046 00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:45.039 first confronts Whitey hot Whitey about you know, and he 1047 00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:47.239 just sits in down at the table, he's eating pie 1048 00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:50.880 and he hardly says anything. And and and the Delbert 1049 00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:54.599 Whitey Haines characters, you know, fills the silence by talking 1050 00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:56.960 him and kind of incriminating himself a bit. I think 1051 00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:59.360 things like that are really really good. You know, there's 1052 00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:04.280 some good and all place action in this film, which 1053 00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.639 is oloys four time. In the books. 1054 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:12.920 I think Hopkins says to Whitey when he's talking about 1055 00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:16.000 working like West Hollywood or something. He calls it, I 1056 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:20.960 think a fact at sewer, just to like throw Whitey 1057 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:23.079 off of his game a little bit. In the book, 1058 00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:26.400 it has more impact since Whitey is engaging in some 1059 00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:28.679 of this stuff, but it really tips him off to 1060 00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:33.239 the whole birdman hustler aspect of it. I really kind 1061 00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:35.360 of wish we had a little bit more of the 1062 00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:37.840 Birdman in there, just because I like the actor that 1063 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:38.559 played him. 1064 00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:38.719 That. 1065 00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:44.519 Speaking of Pockmarked, but that guy from Greece that I 1066 00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:48.159 love when people take pictures from Greece and they're just 1067 00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:50.800 like these people are supposed to be in high school, 1068 00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:55.480 and like Dennis Stewart is probably the least I look 1069 00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:58.679 like I'm in high school of all of them. You know, 1070 00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:02.559 I think he was thirty when they were shooting that. 1071 00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:05.519 And I always liked when he would show up and 1072 00:58:05.559 --> 00:58:08.119 stuff because he just had a great look. 1073 00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:13.320 I forgot he was in Greece. I totally forgot that. Yeah, 1074 00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:17.320 and Andy Beccenroe is in this barely, and I didn't 1075 00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:22.239 recognize her. Raymond J. Berry I didn't recognize until this 1076 00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:25.760 time because I wasn't familiar with him in viewings before. 1077 00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:31.400 After justified the mwar Leonard series, like you can't not 1078 00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:34.360 think of like you can't not remember who that guy 1079 00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.199 is anytime he shows up. It is good. But to 1080 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:39.800 go back to Andrew's point, like eighty five percent in 1081 00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:42.480 the movie is casting. This is a really well cast movie. 1082 00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:46.599 There's so many good people. I will include Randy Brooks 1083 00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:49.800 in here because she's always, you know, the like man 1084 00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:53.360 with two Brains or Hamburger the motion picture. She's the dits. 1085 00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:56.000 She's the blonde dits, you know who's gonna get naked, 1086 00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:58.679 And here she she doesn't get naked, and she's not 1087 00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:03.000 a dits, and she's good. She actually acts, and she 1088 00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:06.679 didn't get that many opportunities like that. She was always 1089 00:59:06.800 --> 00:59:10.840 eye candy or sometimes just scenery, like she's in William 1090 00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:13.920 Friedkin's Deal of the Century, not even has any lines, 1091 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:16.119 just like he is in a bikini on stage. But 1092 00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:18.440 she's really good. I think she's fine. 1093 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:21.000 I think she's really good. Yeah and yeah, I'm used 1094 00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:22.880 to her playing the dits, So when she's got her 1095 00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.920 shit together in this movie, I'm like, Okay, that's great. 1096 00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:28.639 And it does make me very sad when we see 1097 00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:31.519 her strung up in that same position that she was 1098 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.519 in while she was having sex in that crime scene. 1099 00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:38.119 That's a very disturbing moment. 1100 00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:41.360 In the book, in that scene where not the one 1101 00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:43.360 where she dies, but where they're having sex and she 1102 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.800 has this she's really turned on by the handcuffs, gets 1103 00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:50.360 him to cuff her well, or they think they attempt 1104 00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:53.599 to or something. That effect goes on a lot longer. 1105 00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:55.840 But then it does end in the same place with 1106 00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:58.719 the door creaking, which I'm surprised they don't here. 1107 00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.559 Well, that's ceisling. They've got their raws, and lot of 1108 01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:02.360 things come up. 1109 01:00:02.599 --> 01:00:05.000 The movie itself, like they didn't need to have like 1110 01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:07.320 they put in the sound effect of the creaking door. 1111 01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:10.239 You didn't need that sound effect. You could have just 1112 01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:15.280 shown that door and you'd get you'd get it. Audiences 1113 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:18.920 are not always smart, but they're smart enough for things like. 1114 01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:22.280 I'm so happy. When Dallas Novelle asked for this for 1115 01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:25.519 an episode, I was like, oh cool, I'll get Elroy back, 1116 01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:29.679 I'll get Charles Hayde back, I'll get James b Harris back. 1117 01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:34.119 This will be fantastic. So Elroy just won't respond to 1118 01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:36.679 my emails right now. I don't know what's going on Hayde. 1119 01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:39.559 When I reached out to him, he said, I will 1120 01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:44.400 not have anything to do with talking about James Woods 1121 01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:47.719 or James Woods movie, and I was like, oh, okay. 1122 01:00:48.280 --> 01:00:51.239 So I think there's definitely either bad blood from the 1123 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:56.119 past or what Woods is today is affecting Hayde talking 1124 01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:59.760 about this now. But luckily James b Harris agreed to 1125 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.360 come back and talk to me about this. 1126 01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:05.760 Did you try Randy Brooks real toor I did try 1127 01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:09.199 Randy Brooks never got any sort of response. I really 1128 01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:11.840 wanted to, and I mean, I've had Lesley and Warren 1129 01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:13.599 on the show, but that was set up through a 1130 01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:16.320 press thing, so was unable to get in. 1131 01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:19.440 Touch with her. I was beating the bushes. I really 1132 01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:22.639 like this movie a lot and really wanted to give 1133 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.280 this a little bit more oof, but at least we've 1134 01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:26.320 got James b Harris. 1135 01:01:26.360 --> 01:01:29.800 So I didn't listen to that interview deliberately because I 1136 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:32.599 just thought, if I listened to the James b Harris interview, 1137 01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:35.119 It'll start changing what I'm going to think about the 1138 01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:37.280 film and what I'm going to say about the film. So, 1139 01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:42.679 guys had an amazing career. I mean, not only the 1140 01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:46.800 whole Kubrick connection, but I mean Cop, and I don't 1141 01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:49.199 know if you guys got to look. I mean there 1142 01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:52.320 was Cop, there was the Bedford Incident, which was his 1143 01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:57.159 nuclear war thriller in nineteen sixty five. And he did 1144 01:01:57.159 --> 01:02:00.360 this amazing film in nineteen eighty two called Fast Walking, 1145 01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:02.239 which also had Woods and I don't know if you've 1146 01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:02.880 either of you have. 1147 01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:05.159 Seen Tim Carrey. I think Carry isn't there? 1148 01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:08.320 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, about a corrupt prison kin. That's 1149 01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:11.320 a terrific film and also very dark and very sleazy. 1150 01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:14.000 So and then of course goes on to do I 1151 01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:18.440 think his last film is Boiling Point, which is what 1152 01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.159 was that the boiling when was Boiling Point ninety three? 1153 01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:23.880 That's right, that's it. It's like, why did he not 1154 01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:24.440 direct work? 1155 01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:26.239 He's we did the bits and pieces. He did a 1156 01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:28.920 sort of semi porn film, semi some call it loving. 1157 01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:31.440 Oh yeah, we talked about that on the show before. 1158 01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:34.400 Yeah, well that's the one film of his I haven't seen, 1159 01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:36.960 but I have seen the Bedford Incident, which I think 1160 01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:40.159 is great, and I've seen Fast Walking three or four times. 1161 01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:42.159 That's just bad movies. It's like, why did he not? 1162 01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:45.800 I don't know that he has a definable style. But 1163 01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:49.360 the scene that I thought was one of the best 1164 01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:55.559 directed in this is when James Woods goes to Charles 1165 01:02:55.639 --> 01:03:00.159 Head Charles Heed's Wade's apartment and he's just sitting there 1166 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:04.440 and it cuts between like Woods just sitting and then 1167 01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:06.960 what he's seeing, which is the wall with the door, 1168 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.079 and then it every time it cuts back, which is 1169 01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:12.519 not quick quick quick, but you know, it has pace, 1170 01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:16.880 has pauses. It gets in a little tighter to what 1171 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:19.639 he's seeing, and a little tighter and a little tighter, 1172 01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.440 and I could not figure out what is what is 1173 01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:25.679 he trying to show us. You don't actually see until 1174 01:03:25.719 --> 01:03:29.280 it gets like you could see there's something above the doorframe, 1175 01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:31.440 but it's not until Woods gets up out of a 1176 01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:33.880 seat and goes and moves it that you can tell 1177 01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:36.519 it's a you know, a wire or a microphone. I 1178 01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:41.159 guess that leads to But the way that that is framed, 1179 01:03:41.559 --> 01:03:45.519 composed cut is a really effective scene. I thought that 1180 01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:47.280 was really well done. 1181 01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:49.760 I think Harris too. I mean, I'm not sure. Again. 1182 01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:52.639 I deliberately didn't listen to the interview you did, Mike, 1183 01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:55.480 because I just thought it would clear my pitch about 1184 01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:57.159 a whole of things I might say or might not 1185 01:03:57.199 --> 01:04:00.679 say about Cop. But I know that Harris basically says 1186 01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.960 at one point, you know, in terms of it, you know, 1187 01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:06.559 to your question right about why did he do so 1188 01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:10.119 few films, he said, I preferred the kind of material 1189 01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:12.199 and the kind of subjects that were not deemed or 1190 01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:15.880 perceived as commercial, so it was almost impossible to raise 1191 01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:18.679 money to do them. I was spoiled, I suppose, having 1192 01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:21.760 worked on what I thought were very important films. But 1193 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:23.800 you know, he also then went out of his own 1194 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:26.199 and then had to raise the money had for these. 1195 01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:31.280 I mean, fast Walking is an incredibly non commercial project. 1196 01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:36.320 It's like COP. I suppose it's like you know, it's 1197 01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:39.440 a it's a film that straddles about three or four 1198 01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:44.360 genres boiling points. Maybe his most mainstream film. 1199 01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:47.760 I don't know, I'd say definitely the most mainstream, but 1200 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:49.639 even that was it wasn't hit. 1201 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:53.679 Absolutely not, because they was that Wesley Strike, Wesley Snipe 1202 01:04:53.719 --> 01:04:57.360 was it? Wesley Snipes is it cop? And they wanted 1203 01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:00.519 it in the studio, wanted a Passenger fifty sort of 1204 01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.960 another version of Passenger fifty seven. They sort of hard 1205 01:05:04.039 --> 01:05:07.360 charging Wesley Snipes as a kind of dirty Harry type cop. 1206 01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:11.679 And what they get is this weird character study about 1207 01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:15.559 all these criminals gone wrong and ballroom dancing and a 1208 01:05:15.559 --> 01:05:18.119 whole the other weird stuff that's in Boiling Point. 1209 01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:24.039 The poster for Boiling Point is extremely similar to Caps, but. 1210 01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:25.880 The film is not. The film is not. The film 1211 01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:30.119 is totally, very low key, quite soft in parts, a 1212 01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:34.280 strange kind of mixture of ninety three so early nineties. 1213 01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:37.840 It's kind of got eighties cop thriller tropes in it, 1214 01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:41.480 but it's also a very strange film. 1215 01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:43.960 I'm going to look, I'm going to like raise that 1216 01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:47.159 on top of this. Now they've revisited, so I want 1217 01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:47.960 to see that one. 1218 01:05:48.440 --> 01:05:50.840 Yeah. I don't think Boiling Point's a brilliant film, but 1219 01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:52.960 I think it's an interesting film, and you can sort 1220 01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:55.920 of see what Harris is trying to do and there's 1221 01:05:55.960 --> 01:06:00.480 lots of really interesting full of great American character actors, 1222 01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:03.239 so you know, it's it's definitely worth saying. I mean, 1223 01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:06.719 the film I will watch again and again is Fast Walking. 1224 01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:09.280 I think that's fantastic film. I it's probably my favorite 1225 01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.920 Harris film. 1226 01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:15.360 After they did this, Harris actually did do a adaptation 1227 01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:19.199 of Black Dahlia, and that would have been interesting to see. 1228 01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:22.239 And then since he was involved in the project, he 1229 01:06:22.360 --> 01:06:26.360 ended up with a executive producer credit on the Brian 1230 01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:28.880 De Palmer Black Dahlia, and I was glad that he 1231 01:06:29.079 --> 01:06:33.639 had no qualms on the auto commentary for cop saying 1232 01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:37.519 that he was a little disappointed, let's say, in Black Dahlia, 1233 01:06:37.639 --> 01:06:40.159 because I very much am there with him. 1234 01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:43.159 I rewatched that recently after having seen it in the 1235 01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:46.280 cinema when it came out. It's a terrible film. It's 1236 01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:48.440 an atrocious film. I really I'm. 1237 01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:50.840 Very glad that my memory is correct because I have 1238 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:52.039 no desire to see it. 1239 01:06:52.119 --> 01:06:54.400 No, no, no, it just does not work in any way, 1240 01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:55.119 shape or form. 1241 01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:59.159 I'd love Brian de Palmer, and I couldn't finish it. 1242 01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:02.000 I think it's just it's dreadfully boring. 1243 01:07:02.679 --> 01:07:05.960 I just remember because you know, we talked about doubling 1244 01:07:06.039 --> 01:07:09.400 and the doubling of Hopkins and Teddy, and there's doubling 1245 01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:11.920 that happens in The Black Dahlia, and that doubling is 1246 01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:15.320 supposed to be between the Hillary swaink character and the 1247 01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:20.360 Mia Kirshner character, Hillary playing Madeline Lynn Scott and Mia 1248 01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:24.719 Kirshner as the titular Black Dahlia. Elizabeth Short, Hilary's swink 1249 01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:29.159 says this line with a straight face. Everyone says, I 1250 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:32.119 look like her, and I'm just like, oh my god, honey, 1251 01:07:33.320 --> 01:07:36.480 you look nothing like Mia Kirshner whatsoever. 1252 01:07:38.719 --> 01:07:41.000 It's just so bad. Really. 1253 01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:44.599 The Elroy film that I do remember liking a lot, 1254 01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:46.559 and I haven't had a chance to rewatch it because 1255 01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:48.880 I'm living overseas and I haven't got all my stuff 1256 01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:51.599 with me. I did like Brown's Rickliem. 1257 01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:55.039 I do remember liking that one because that was Michael Rooker. 1258 01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:57.239 Right, yeah, Michael Rooker. And it's it's again. It's another 1259 01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:01.320 Railroy adaptation, and I do remember thinking, yea, this is 1260 01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.440 quite faithful to the original novel. I mean, it was 1261 01:08:04.599 --> 01:08:07.760 was Brown's Recreem before the Floyd hop was that was. 1262 01:08:07.760 --> 01:08:09.880 Was that one OF's earliest. 1263 01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.599 Brown's Requiem, Yeah, I think it was Clandestine and Brown's 1264 01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:13.920 Requiem were the first two. 1265 01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.199 The Floyd Hopkins film Cop came out and then brought 1266 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:20.079 and then I think Brown's Recreem came out, and then 1267 01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:22.720 La Confidential. I do love La Confidential. I think it's 1268 01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:26.119 terrific film, but it's a sort of cleaned up version 1269 01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:27.640 of Bilroy's novel. 1270 01:08:28.359 --> 01:08:30.319 Yeah, and I think La Confidential came out, and then 1271 01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:33.920 Brown's Recreem the movie came out the next year, just 1272 01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:38.880 because it had that little from La Confidential, like, oh cool, 1273 01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:42.079 let's adapt more of this guy's work. And then the 1274 01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:44.159 thing I didn't realize because I knew that they had 1275 01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:48.439 tried to adapt La Confidential as a TV show way 1276 01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:53.199 back in two thousand and three, and I think Southern Yeah, 1277 01:08:53.239 --> 01:08:55.680 the key for Sutherland one. And then I didn't realize 1278 01:08:55.680 --> 01:08:58.119 that there was another one from twenty nineteen. 1279 01:08:58.479 --> 01:09:02.199 Was that Jordan Harper crime writer who also did the 1280 01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:04.520 script on his on that And I've actually seen the 1281 01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:08.319 first episode. I did do an episode. Yeah, it's really good. 1282 01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:09.119 It's really good. 1283 01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:09.960 Yeah. 1284 01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:12.960 I didn't realize until I was interviewing Dominic Burgess, who 1285 01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:17.720 played the Victor Bono character in Feud, that he had 1286 01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:21.720 played Sid Hudgens in that new version of La Confidential. 1287 01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:24.279 But since that's from twenty nineteen, I don't think we're 1288 01:09:24.279 --> 01:09:26.880 getting a series out of it, even though it's got 1289 01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:30.840 a great cast. Walter Goggins as Jack Vincent's pretty freaking. 1290 01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:32.960 Almost one episode. I made one episode and then never 1291 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:34.840 went anywhere. But the episode is great. 1292 01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:39.319 Shave Wigham. I love Share Wigham in everything. Yeah, I 1293 01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:41.760 want to see that. I remember here reading or start 1294 01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:46.640 reading hearing a podcast with Jordan Harper. Can't remember what 1295 01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:49.920 it was on, but they did talk about that Elie 1296 01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:53.840 Confidential pilot and that it's probably Yeah, I think it's dead, 1297 01:09:54.319 --> 01:09:57.680 which is because that could it could be a really 1298 01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:01.439 good series for something like HB. But I think the 1299 01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:04.880 key for said Lerdland, if i'd recall, was for Fox, 1300 01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:09.399 which would not have been good just the way. 1301 01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:13.760 That Elroy writes and just the disturbing content he gets into. 1302 01:10:14.199 --> 01:10:16.479 You have to do this for cable. It cannot be 1303 01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:21.720 for broadcast television. If you're going to do an Elroy thing, 1304 01:10:21.800 --> 01:10:26.560 I mean, he's got so many things like had you said, Okay, 1305 01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:29.840 La confidential, but let's make a prequel. Let's go all 1306 01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:33.800 the way back to Blackdalia itself, Like, let's start there 1307 01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:36.000 and just show this whole history of la I mean, 1308 01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:39.640 because that's what that's the thing that Elroy does so well. 1309 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:41.760 And it could almost be like a Noah Howley thing 1310 01:10:41.800 --> 01:10:45.079 where it's like each season becomes a different book, or 1311 01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:48.399 you do two seasons per book, because these are vast 1312 01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:53.159 tapestries that Elroy is creating. So speaking of let's go 1313 01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:55.319 ahead and take a break, and we're going to be 1314 01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:57.880 back with that interview with James B. Harris, the writer 1315 01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:01.399 director of cop Right after these brief messages. 1316 01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:04.960 Welcome to highst Club, where we lay out the blueprints 1317 01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:08.000 or some of the strangest, boldest and most unbelievable robberies 1318 01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:08.800 of all time. 1319 01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:12.760 For mysteries unsolved to flawless plans, to split second mistakes like. 1320 01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:15.399 The nineteen million dollar last Job pulled off by London's 1321 01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:18.039 very own version of the Expendables. 1322 01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:19.439 Or the robbery that made the Mona Lisa the most 1323 01:11:19.479 --> 01:11:22.359 famous painting in the world, like the Thomas Crime Affair 1324 01:11:22.520 --> 01:11:24.239 said in nineteen eleven Paris. 1325 01:11:24.199 --> 01:11:28.319 But also less sophisticated and no Pierce Broston. 1326 01:11:28.319 --> 01:11:32.279 M Sorry Todd. We cover bank jobs, art lifts, diamond scores, 1327 01:11:32.600 --> 01:11:34.640 all the stuff Danny Ocean's crew be jealous of. 1328 01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:37.039 I'm Todd and I'm Jesse. 1329 01:11:37.479 --> 01:11:40.479 Welcome to hight Club. Real life capers that inspired movies, 1330 01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:42.199 mysteries and time in prison. 1331 01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:47.560 Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. 1332 01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:49.520 And follow us at highst Club pod on all your 1333 01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:51.520 social media apps, including letterboxed. 1334 01:11:51.880 --> 01:11:53.920 Tell us about your favorite heists, what you would have 1335 01:11:53.960 --> 01:11:55.000 done hypothetically. 1336 01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:57.479 Of course, listen in and join the club. 1337 01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:03.560 Looking for something superior to streaming, a place with more 1338 01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:07.600 than five times the selection available on all streaming services combined. 1339 01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:11.399 Check out Scarecrow Videos rent by mail service. 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So 1344 01:12:28.279 --> 01:12:32.039 I understand you and James Woods have worked together on 1345 01:12:32.680 --> 01:12:35.640 fast Walking, and even before we talk about cop I'm 1346 01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:37.479 so curious how fast Walking came about. 1347 01:12:38.239 --> 01:12:40.920 I did an adaptation on a book called a Rap 1348 01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:46.000 by writing named Ernest Browley, when Laura mar was in 1349 01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:49.840 business at that, you know, doing feature films after they 1350 01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:54.159 had done Dallas as a huge hit on television and 1351 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:56.680 they wanted to go into the making of features. So 1352 01:12:57.319 --> 01:13:00.359 I showed on my script on what I called fast Walking, 1353 01:13:00.359 --> 01:13:03.319 because he was a minor character in the novel, but 1354 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:05.840 I made him a major character because I just thought 1355 01:13:06.119 --> 01:13:09.479 he was more interesting and and Laura Man loved the script, 1356 01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:13.159 and we decided I had to find an actor. Jimmy 1357 01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:17.079 Woods was starting to He had done the Holocaust TV 1358 01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:20.319 show and I think I don't know if he did 1359 01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:22.960 the Onion Field yet, but he had never he never 1360 01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:25.520 had a lead in the picture. He's always, you know, 1361 01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:28.880 a good supporting actor. So we decided to go after Woods, 1362 01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:32.640 and he loved the script, and he and I got 1363 01:13:32.680 --> 01:13:35.319 together to discuss it and found out that, you know 1364 01:13:35.399 --> 01:13:38.279 that we had a lot of things in common, you know, 1365 01:13:38.479 --> 01:13:42.920 aside from from movies, and we got along great and 1366 01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:47.279 it was really it made it so much fun doing 1367 01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:49.920 the film with him. You can always tell whether things 1368 01:13:49.960 --> 01:13:52.239 work or not if they want to do a second 1369 01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:55.439 picture with you, which turned out to be cop not 1370 01:13:55.479 --> 01:13:58.199 only did we work well together, but we became best 1371 01:13:58.239 --> 01:14:04.359 friends and to this day we're still buddies, in touch 1372 01:14:04.399 --> 01:14:07.199 with each other all the time. Just as in Aside. 1373 01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:12.239 He lives in Pacific Palisades, and strangey enough, his house survived. 1374 01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:16.119 It has smoking damage, but all the houses next to 1375 01:14:16.199 --> 01:14:21.399 him on both sides went down and he survived, Thank goodness. 1376 01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:24.479 You know, it's amazing. But anyway, we're still in touch, 1377 01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:28.479 we're still buddies, and he's a great guy, you know, 1378 01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:30.119 as far as a friend is concerned. 1379 01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:35.239 You had such a stellar cast on Fast Walking. I 1380 01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:40.119 mean I love M. M. Walsh, Susan Tyrrell, Robert Hooks. 1381 01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:43.119 I mean, just so many amazing character actors and just 1382 01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:47.399 you know, straight actors, just such a wonderful pool of talent. 1383 01:14:48.439 --> 01:14:52.560 You're forgetting about the too many a Tim Carrey, Remember 1384 01:14:52.640 --> 01:14:54.520 Timothy Carey from Pars Glory. 1385 01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:57.439 I love Timothy Carey, and I was definitely going to 1386 01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:00.159 ask about him because I'm so curious what he is 1387 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:00.920 like to work with. 1388 01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:04.520 He's difficult to work with because he he's he was 1389 01:15:05.439 --> 01:15:09.079 a scene stealer, you know, he loves to do things 1390 01:15:09.399 --> 01:15:12.840 that were not in the rehearsals and always surprised us. 1391 01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:14.760 You know, what you need is one good take, and 1392 01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:19.119 he looks terrific on the screen. He basically was a 1393 01:15:19.159 --> 01:15:19.600 good guy. 1394 01:15:19.720 --> 01:15:19.920 You know. 1395 01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:23.239 We used him in the killing Koprick and I we 1396 01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:27.199 used him in Pairs of Glory and then uh, I 1397 01:15:27.239 --> 01:15:31.439 gave him another another shot and uh fast Walking and 1398 01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:37.720 then the other guy, Uh, Tim McIntyre, he's another fun character. 1399 01:15:37.800 --> 01:15:40.960 I mean. And playing your scene with those two were 1400 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:43.119 really amazing. 1401 01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:44.119 Yeah. 1402 01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:46.159 I thought the same as you that that this was 1403 01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:49.239 the terrific gest you know, starting with Woods and Tim 1404 01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:55.079 McIntyre and Timothy Carrey and Waltz and Kay Lens and 1405 01:15:55.119 --> 01:16:00.840 a few others and what's his name. Uh, but all 1406 01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:04.159 those guys were terrific. And we shot half the film 1407 01:16:04.479 --> 01:16:09.000 in deal Large, Montana at a vacated prison, and so 1408 01:16:09.039 --> 01:16:11.680 we got the use of that prison as our set 1409 01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:13.880 and it just worked out fine. 1410 01:16:14.960 --> 01:16:15.119 You know. 1411 01:16:15.159 --> 01:16:18.000 It was one of those sixers that didn't get a 1412 01:16:18.199 --> 01:16:21.640 major distribution. Warners has the picture now because they bought 1413 01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:26.039 out Lorimar and they have it in their Buried Treasure 1414 01:16:26.239 --> 01:16:30.399 group of pictures. You could probably get it on Amazon 1415 01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:33.079 or one of those things. That was the start of 1416 01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:35.920 my relationship with Woods. And we had such a good 1417 01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:38.680 time making it, we decided we want to do another one, 1418 01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:43.279 and I came up with James elroy book Cold Blood 1419 01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:46.680 on the Moon. I adapted that and the distributor was 1420 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.079 to cause who they were. They went bankrupt whatever they were, 1421 01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:53.279 you know, going to finance the movie, and it was 1422 01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:56.119 a shame. But this seemed like I thought, really good 1423 01:16:56.199 --> 01:16:59.319 movies at Fast Walking and Cop and neither one of 1424 01:16:59.319 --> 01:17:03.199 them got a proper distribution. The distributor for a Cop 1425 01:17:03.640 --> 01:17:07.319 when bankrupt. They didn't have enough money to even do 1426 01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:11.000 television advertising. And how can you compete with all the 1427 01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:14.840 other product on the market if you're not advertising on TV. 1428 01:17:15.079 --> 01:17:18.079 You know, they limited it to I don't know to 1429 01:17:18.239 --> 01:17:20.800 radio and news I guess not even that, just a 1430 01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:24.840 newspaper ads. The picture did well and it opened in 1431 01:17:25.560 --> 01:17:29.319 Los Angeles and Westwood did fine, and he got great reviews. 1432 01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:32.640 It was book two thumbs up with Cisco and remember 1433 01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:35.560 those guys. But did you know it's just one of 1434 01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:38.720 those pictures that not too many people know about it, 1435 01:17:38.760 --> 01:17:41.479 and which thinks of it as one of his best works. 1436 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.479 You know, we did it after he was nominated for Salvador. 1437 01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:48.960 You didn't win the Academy Award. He got nominated for Salvador, 1438 01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:54.000 so he was he was starting to be known. And 1439 01:17:54.239 --> 01:17:56.119 he's had a hell of a career. You know, he's 1440 01:17:56.119 --> 01:17:59.600 done some really good work that had a good cast too, 1441 01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:04.279 you know, Leslie un Warrant and Charlie Derning, Charlie had 1442 01:18:05.199 --> 01:18:08.880 Who's fun working with those people they wove? Is it 1443 01:18:08.960 --> 01:18:11.880 difficult to do? They You know, you have such great 1444 01:18:11.920 --> 01:18:15.479 expectations before you start, and you can get eighty percent 1445 01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:18.439 of of what you if you're looking what you're dreaming about. 1446 01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:22.239 You're lucky. You know, You've got so many problems that develop, 1447 01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:25.399 and that's why you do as much preparation as possible 1448 01:18:25.479 --> 01:18:29.319 to try to deal with the problems. You know are 1449 01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:32.880 are on the horizon and may sure are. You know, 1450 01:18:32.640 --> 01:18:37.279 you're dealing with human beings, you know. So actors sometimes 1451 01:18:37.319 --> 01:18:40.880 are very cooperative, and sometimes they have other problems that 1452 01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:45.439 interfere with their work. And you're trying to get a performance, 1453 01:18:46.079 --> 01:18:49.319 and then you've got weather problems, You've got time restraints 1454 01:18:49.319 --> 01:18:51.920 because you have a budget and a schedule, you have 1455 01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:54.640 a completion bond, and those people looking over your shoulder 1456 01:18:54.720 --> 01:18:58.119 to make sure you don't go overtime and over budget 1457 01:18:58.119 --> 01:19:01.880 and over schedule. It's well, you're so glad when it's 1458 01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:05.720 over and you just hope that you have at least 1459 01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:08.600 eighty percent of what you had helped you get. The 1460 01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:13.159 cop turned out okay, I mean it was really made. 1461 01:19:13.159 --> 01:19:15.600 A lot of people pay attention. Was that ending? Do 1462 01:19:15.640 --> 01:19:18.000 you remember? The ending? Was kind of a shock. We 1463 01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:22.760 did that picture for under three million. It was really tough. 1464 01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:26.199 You didn't want too many, you know, take five, take six. 1465 01:19:27.640 --> 01:19:30.119 You have to keep moving along and you get it right. 1466 01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:33.159 Casting is everything, you know, cooping, and I always felt 1467 01:19:33.159 --> 01:19:36.279 that testing was like eighty percent of the movie because 1468 01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:39.800 if you get the right actors requires less directing. The 1469 01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:42.039 better the actor is, the less you have to direct, 1470 01:19:42.159 --> 01:19:44.279 as long as they understand the script and they know 1471 01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:46.840 what the scenes are about, and they can add things 1472 01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:48.640 too that you know, you just don't want an actor 1473 01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:50.720 who just stands there and says tell me what to do. 1474 01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:53.239 They have ideas of their own. I mean, you as 1475 01:19:53.239 --> 01:19:56.520 a director can always negate them, and you always have 1476 01:19:56.600 --> 01:19:59.720 final say when you're making the movie. But if you 1477 01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:03.279 ca the right actors, mixed directing a lot easier than 1478 01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:05.880 you think. And that's what it's all about you know, 1479 01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:08.479 if the young filmmakers they should watch a lot of 1480 01:20:08.520 --> 01:20:12.399 movies and start to recognize the actors that are really good, 1481 01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:15.119 and those are the ones you want to work with. 1482 01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:19.000 You know, unless you're doing a documentary or an animated film, 1483 01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:21.880 you need actors. You know, they're the ones that are 1484 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:24.279 going to tell you a story. You better get good ones, 1485 01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:27.279 you know, good character, you know, good thinking people that 1486 01:20:27.960 --> 01:20:30.720 can create for you. And I think I had that 1487 01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:36.479 with Woods with Charlie Derning. He was terrific. And unless 1488 01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:39.359 Leanne Warren, you remember her and Victor Victoria. She got 1489 01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:40.439 nominated to that. 1490 01:20:41.279 --> 01:20:45.239 When did you first encounter Blood on the Moon And 1491 01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:47.600 what about that story appealed to you and you said, oh, 1492 01:20:47.680 --> 01:20:49.680 this is going to make a fantastic movie. 1493 01:20:50.239 --> 01:20:53.800 I'm always looking for what you call published material. You know, 1494 01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:57.960 when I met Kubrick we decided to become partners and 1495 01:20:58.039 --> 01:21:01.760 the movies together. I told him that the one thing 1496 01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:04.720 that I'm going to bring to the partnership is the 1497 01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:09.399 wherewithal to acquire previously published material, because up to that 1498 01:21:09.479 --> 01:21:12.439 point Kubrick had only done, you know, two pictures that 1499 01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:14.000 sort of looked like he made it up as he 1500 01:21:14.039 --> 01:21:17.199 went along. What was so good about Kubrick's early works 1501 01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:19.680 was not the pictures themselves, but the fact that he 1502 01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:22.640 was so young and that he did everything himself. But 1503 01:21:22.680 --> 01:21:25.239 the one thing he didn't have the wherewithal is to 1504 01:21:25.359 --> 01:21:28.119 acquire material, you have to option it and then you 1505 01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:31.840 have to buy it. And since then, since nineteen fifty five, 1506 01:21:31.880 --> 01:21:35.479 when we made our first picture together, Kubrick on his 1507 01:21:35.560 --> 01:21:38.680 own or myself on our own or together, we never 1508 01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:41.760 did a picture that wasn't based on previously published material. 1509 01:21:42.840 --> 01:21:46.439 It really is, you know, again, advice to the filmmakers, 1510 01:21:46.960 --> 01:21:49.399 rather than make up your own stories, which are probably 1511 01:21:49.399 --> 01:21:53.319 not anywhere as good as the novelist. Just think, you know, 1512 01:21:53.359 --> 01:21:56.199 the novelist that did all the groundwork, he did all 1513 01:21:56.239 --> 01:21:59.199 the heavy listening for you, He made up the story, 1514 01:22:00.199 --> 01:22:02.520 he made up all the characters, he did all the 1515 01:22:02.600 --> 01:22:05.960 research on whatever the picture was about. And then you 1516 01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:09.000 come along and all you have to do is, and 1517 01:22:09.079 --> 01:22:10.760 I know it's not that easy, but all you have 1518 01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:14.640 to do is decide what scenes you know you want 1519 01:22:14.680 --> 01:22:17.600 to dramatize, because you can't do the whole book, usually 1520 01:22:17.680 --> 01:22:20.439 the four hundred pages or so. To try to do 1521 01:22:20.479 --> 01:22:22.600 a two hour movie you know, you have to be 1522 01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:26.920 concerned about what's necessary to dramatize to tell you a story. 1523 01:22:27.199 --> 01:22:31.680 But anyway, getting back to the fact that I'm always 1524 01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:36.439 looking for books and bookstores and I subscribe to it 1525 01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:40.720 to a service that gives you advanced reviews of books 1526 01:22:41.039 --> 01:22:44.439 to be published. And I came across in a book. 1527 01:22:44.479 --> 01:22:48.239 So I came across Elroy's one of the trilogy, you 1528 01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:52.079 know he did. I figure what they're all called. What's 1529 01:22:52.119 --> 01:22:56.000 his name, Lloyd Hopkins. There was the cop you know, 1530 01:22:56.399 --> 01:22:58.880 you know, over the top cop, you know, a cop 1531 01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.720 who makes up his own rules and likes to settle 1532 01:23:01.760 --> 01:23:05.560 things out of court. And I thought the character was terrific, 1533 01:23:05.920 --> 01:23:10.359 and then the story worked. Lady never had anything made 1534 01:23:10.359 --> 01:23:13.720 of his books, those three, and I contacted him and 1535 01:23:15.199 --> 01:23:17.680 and he was go ahead to sell me an option 1536 01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:21.840 on Blood on the Moon. And we became good friends too, 1537 01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:27.960 because he became probably the most known crime writer, you know, 1538 01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:32.319 since the old days of Dashall Hammett and all those guys, 1539 01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:35.439 you know, James McCain. He had best sellers, you know, 1540 01:23:35.560 --> 01:23:40.039 like La Confidential, remember that one, you know, when the 1541 01:23:40.159 --> 01:23:43.920 Academy Award for my friend Curtis Hansen for writing a script. 1542 01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:46.239 But anyway, I came across Blood on the Moon in 1543 01:23:46.279 --> 01:23:49.600 the bookstore and I thought, see if I can acquire 1544 01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:51.319 this thing, I think I can make a good movie 1545 01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:54.279 out of it. And when I did, I sat down 1546 01:23:54.279 --> 01:23:56.800 and wrote the script and got back in touch with 1547 01:23:56.880 --> 01:23:59.399 Jimmy Woods and said, you know, let's do this together. 1548 01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:03.079 You know, we both produce it and New Star and 1549 01:24:03.479 --> 01:24:06.000 I've written it and I'll direct it. And that's what 1550 01:24:06.039 --> 01:24:08.840 we did. We think at least a lot of critics 1551 01:24:08.840 --> 01:24:11.039 thought as well, that it turned out pretty good. 1552 01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:14.760 Obviously, the book goes in so many different directions, but 1553 01:24:14.840 --> 01:24:17.279 you pare it down to just those essential facts that 1554 01:24:17.439 --> 01:24:20.399 really keep a very tight, fast moving story. 1555 01:24:21.279 --> 01:24:23.960 When you look at a lot of crime films, they 1556 01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:26.359 kind of slow down the action with too much of 1557 01:24:27.479 --> 01:24:31.520 personal things of a side with these the characters, and 1558 01:24:31.560 --> 01:24:34.479 they always put up a song that the girl has 1559 01:24:34.520 --> 01:24:37.920 to sing in the nightclub or something, and it's you know, 1560 01:24:38.199 --> 01:24:41.199 I just wanted to stay away from that. And you know, 1561 01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:44.640 had already worked with Stanley and we did the killing, 1562 01:24:44.920 --> 01:24:47.640 and the killing was one of those picture. Just what 1563 01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:50.800 we loved about it was the way the story was 1564 01:24:50.840 --> 01:24:53.760 told in a series of flashbacks which just follows each 1565 01:24:53.840 --> 01:24:57.199 participant in the robbery up until a certain point. It 1566 01:24:57.359 --> 01:25:01.439 kind of set a whole standard for film noir in Hollywood, 1567 01:25:01.920 --> 01:25:04.560 you know, because Roger Corman, who made you know, low 1568 01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:07.920 budget pictures, they realized that you could make a low 1569 01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:10.800 budget picture that looked like an a budget picture, you know, 1570 01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:15.000 they killing We used Lucian Ballad, who was a terrific cameraman, 1571 01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:18.239 you know. I mean it was really well known and 1572 01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:21.560 well respected. But you know, and Van Kubrick, being a 1573 01:25:21.560 --> 01:25:25.680 photographer himself, I was able to use the right lenses 1574 01:25:25.720 --> 01:25:28.640 and the right camera moves and everything, and we made 1575 01:25:28.680 --> 01:25:31.880 a real low budget picture look like like a major movie. 1576 01:25:32.600 --> 01:25:35.720 We were talking about the pace and keeping it tight 1577 01:25:35.800 --> 01:25:39.279 and getting rid of all the you know, the unnecessary 1578 01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:43.520 set that you want to trim away, and that's what 1579 01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:45.439 we did with Kapp. We just kept it moving and 1580 01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:50.000 told the story that people could understand, and you get 1581 01:25:50.039 --> 01:25:53.720 the right actors to play those characters. And that's a 1582 01:25:53.720 --> 01:25:55.880 good recipe to make a movie. 1583 01:25:56.479 --> 01:25:59.119 Well, you mentioned some of the major players, but even 1584 01:25:59.159 --> 01:26:02.520 some of the minor actors or minor characters that should 1585 01:26:02.520 --> 01:26:06.600 say are so well done. I mean, Dennis Stewart or 1586 01:26:07.399 --> 01:26:10.079 you know, even Stephen Lambert in there. I just love 1587 01:26:10.279 --> 01:26:13.199 or gosh, I mean Raymond Jay Berry, who always brings 1588 01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:16.600 so much to play kind of a smallish role as 1589 01:26:16.640 --> 01:26:20.159 that police captain, but oh my gosh, he just lights 1590 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:21.319 up the screen every time he's on. 1591 01:26:22.239 --> 01:26:25.199 Yeah, you remember he did a picture for Tomino. I 1592 01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:27.880 think it was the Year the Dragon or something in 1593 01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:31.920 Chinatown and New York and I saw Ray Berry in 1594 01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:33.760 that and I said, I got to you know, if 1595 01:26:33.760 --> 01:26:35.640 if ever I do a crime film, I got to 1596 01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:39.840 get this guy in the film. He's just terrific and 1597 01:26:39.880 --> 01:26:42.720 so I wish the part of them bigger. But but 1598 01:26:42.720 --> 01:26:45.840 but I figured ray had to do that. I had to. 1599 01:26:45.960 --> 01:26:50.439 I had to have him. And even the girl books. Yeah, 1600 01:26:50.520 --> 01:26:53.199 Randy Brooks, she was terrific in a real small part. 1601 01:26:54.239 --> 01:26:56.880 That's the whole thing. You know, at the beginning of 1602 01:26:56.920 --> 01:27:00.640 our conversation, I told you that Stanley and I really 1603 01:27:00.640 --> 01:27:03.159 believe that casting is eighty percent of the movie, and 1604 01:27:03.439 --> 01:27:06.239 you get the right people. It's such a great hate start. 1605 01:27:06.319 --> 01:27:09.000 You have. You have to pay attention. You know, like 1606 01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:12.600 a lot of directors, you trust the casting director and 1607 01:27:13.399 --> 01:27:16.359 they don't pay enough attention to every little part because 1608 01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:18.600 they think, well, it's only a small part, is not 1609 01:27:18.680 --> 01:27:22.720 that important. But every part's important, you know, especially you know, 1610 01:27:23.319 --> 01:27:25.439 you make one mistake in the movie and it can 1611 01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:28.760 it can ruin it if you pick the right people, 1612 01:27:28.880 --> 01:27:32.039 even for those small parts. You know, even in Fast 1613 01:27:32.039 --> 01:27:36.239 Walking it was minor parts with Charlie, you know, Charlie Weldon. 1614 01:27:36.319 --> 01:27:38.880 You know, I figured her first name, Weldon was a 1615 01:27:38.960 --> 01:27:42.560 terrific singer. You know, she was a recording artist and 1616 01:27:43.319 --> 01:27:47.279 she was just great. But Charlie, he played the part great, 1617 01:27:47.279 --> 01:27:50.880 and Hooks did. Of course, everybody in there was was great. 1618 01:27:51.399 --> 01:27:54.239 And as I said, the first time I directed a picture, 1619 01:27:54.279 --> 01:27:56.760 it was called a Bedford incident if you ever saw 1620 01:27:56.760 --> 01:27:59.039 that one. But you know, I had never directed a 1621 01:27:59.039 --> 01:28:02.079 film before. You know, spending time with Kubrick, you know, 1622 01:28:02.119 --> 01:28:04.640 he makes it look easy and it's not easy. But 1623 01:28:05.279 --> 01:28:07.800 he also inspires you to want to direct yourself, and 1624 01:28:07.840 --> 01:28:10.319 he was always pushing me to because that's the most 1625 01:28:10.359 --> 01:28:13.960 rewarding part of making a movie, is directing, because you know, 1626 01:28:13.960 --> 01:28:16.000 when you look at the dais other rushes, that's what 1627 01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:18.640 you see on the screen. You did that as a director, 1628 01:28:18.680 --> 01:28:21.319 you put it up there, and as a producer. You know, 1629 01:28:21.359 --> 01:28:24.760 I was fulfilled in that I had acquired all the 1630 01:28:24.800 --> 01:28:29.760 material and made sure everything got made, and an interference 1631 01:28:29.800 --> 01:28:33.000 for Kubrick. But I never felt that it was as 1632 01:28:33.039 --> 01:28:35.600 a rewarding as if I had directed the movies. So 1633 01:28:35.680 --> 01:28:37.760 I got a shot to direct the picture. You know, 1634 01:28:38.640 --> 01:28:42.119 I found this book the Bedford Incident. I didn't write 1635 01:28:42.119 --> 01:28:45.600 the script myself this time. Had never written a script before. 1636 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:48.399 I've worked on scripts with Stanley. But I got a 1637 01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:50.840 good script, which is which of course, you know, it's 1638 01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:53.560 the old story. You can't make good mayonnaise with rotten eggs, 1639 01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:56.319 you know. And you got a good screenplay. You know, 1640 01:28:56.359 --> 01:28:58.399 you're you're off to a real good start if you 1641 01:28:59.079 --> 01:29:02.800 if the screenplay floored, if it's not doesn't work, you're 1642 01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:05.079 not going to make a good movie. I mean, it's 1643 01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:07.520 the blueprint of the movie and it better be right. 1644 01:29:07.960 --> 01:29:10.039 So anyway, we look at the actors that I had. 1645 01:29:10.479 --> 01:29:13.319 Widmark was a pro that maybe have done fifty movies 1646 01:29:13.399 --> 01:29:15.840 or some crazy like that. Porty had just won the 1647 01:29:15.920 --> 01:29:19.359 Academy at work for Lidley's of the Field. And I 1648 01:29:19.840 --> 01:29:23.880 had a great English actor named Eric Portman. And then 1649 01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:28.600 I had James MacArthur. I had Wally Cox, I had 1650 01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:32.640 Marty Botham, he's always so good, you know, and even 1651 01:29:33.159 --> 01:29:36.720 Donald Sutherland had a small part in the infidences. But 1652 01:29:36.920 --> 01:29:40.319 the point I'm making is that these are all terrific actors. 1653 01:29:40.319 --> 01:29:42.880 And I had never directed a film before, but the 1654 01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:45.199 picture turned out like like I was an old pro 1655 01:29:45.439 --> 01:29:48.279 and why But because I had the good actors. And 1656 01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:52.399 as I said before, you know, the better the actor is, 1657 01:29:52.439 --> 01:29:54.840 the less directing you have to do. What you have 1658 01:29:54.920 --> 01:29:56.960 to do is have an year. You know, they can 1659 01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.720 tell whether a scene plays or not. Pretty tough to say, 1660 01:29:59.720 --> 01:30:02.359 why not playing? If it's not, then you have to 1661 01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:06.279 go back to Stanislawsky, and you know, you got to say, 1662 01:30:06.319 --> 01:30:09.159 first of all, it does reactor understand the scene? Secondly, 1663 01:30:09.199 --> 01:30:12.680 does he know his lines? If that proves to be positive, 1664 01:30:13.199 --> 01:30:15.479 then you better look at the script and you better 1665 01:30:15.520 --> 01:30:18.239 rewrite the scene. You have to have the ability to 1666 01:30:18.239 --> 01:30:20.479 tell whether a scene plays or not. I don't think 1667 01:30:20.479 --> 01:30:23.119 that's too tough. When you got actors like I had, 1668 01:30:23.640 --> 01:30:26.039 they make the scene play and it doesn't. You know, 1669 01:30:26.039 --> 01:30:29.479 it doesn't take it, you know, rocket scientist. If you've 1670 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:31.800 got a good year to tell that, it doesn't sound 1671 01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:34.680 that matures. It doesn't sound like there's too much air 1672 01:30:34.840 --> 01:30:39.039 between the responses back and forth. Plus the fact, you know, 1673 01:30:39.319 --> 01:30:41.880 you can make scenes work a lot in the editing room. 1674 01:30:42.439 --> 01:30:44.439 You know, you can tighten them up, you can loosen 1675 01:30:44.439 --> 01:30:46.840 them up, you can you can change the pace. You 1676 01:30:46.880 --> 01:30:49.640 can do a lot of things. But you know, if 1677 01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:52.520 you have a good negative, you can make a good 1678 01:30:52.600 --> 01:30:55.600 print net in photography, you know. So if you have 1679 01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:58.239 a good if you if you have a good script, 1680 01:30:58.760 --> 01:31:00.880 then you have good scenes that you don't have to 1681 01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:04.239 do too much in the editing room except except that 1682 01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:08.000 the properly. You know, listen, I'm making it sound a 1683 01:31:08.079 --> 01:31:10.640 lot easier than it is. But you just have to 1684 01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:13.920 have the right ingredients. And it starts with the script 1685 01:31:13.960 --> 01:31:16.359 and the story and the actors. 1686 01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:19.119 And I wanted to know a little bit about some 1687 01:31:19.159 --> 01:31:21.159 of the people behind the camera. Can you tell me 1688 01:31:21.199 --> 01:31:24.880 about like your DP Steve Dhuben from one to understand 1689 01:31:24.880 --> 01:31:27.239 he wasn't the original DP on this, but he came 1690 01:31:27.279 --> 01:31:29.319 in after just a few days. 1691 01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:32.760 That's right. Woods and I you have screened a lot 1692 01:31:32.840 --> 01:31:36.920 of stuff, and we really wanted to work with King Baggett, 1693 01:31:36.960 --> 01:31:40.319 you know who photographed fast walking, But King wasn't available 1694 01:31:41.199 --> 01:31:44.760 a cameraman that had only done commercials. But the commercials 1695 01:31:44.760 --> 01:31:48.399 were really fabulous. I mean they were beautifully photographs, and 1696 01:31:48.439 --> 01:31:51.479 we figured, Jesus, this guy really should do a feature film. 1697 01:31:51.560 --> 01:31:53.680 I forget his name. He's really a nice guy and 1698 01:31:54.800 --> 01:31:57.439 he meant so well, but he was not used to 1699 01:31:57.479 --> 01:32:00.960 doing feature films where you run a schedule and a 1700 01:32:01.039 --> 01:32:03.159 tight budget and you got to keep moving and you 1701 01:32:03.239 --> 01:32:06.439 got to light the thing fast. And the first day 1702 01:32:06.439 --> 01:32:09.359 we shot a scene, it was totally out of focus. 1703 01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:13.920 So we had a foul focused guy that evidently screwed 1704 01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:17.159 up on this thing and we had to reshoot that stuff. Secondly, 1705 01:32:17.800 --> 01:32:20.600 he really wasn't accustomed to, you know, working at the 1706 01:32:20.640 --> 01:32:24.600 pace we needed. He was always trying to improve, you know, 1707 01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:29.680 always you're fussing with the adjustments and things. And he'd 1708 01:32:29.720 --> 01:32:31.840 even be walking around while we was shooting. I mean, 1709 01:32:31.880 --> 01:32:34.680 I remember a time when Woods was doing the scene 1710 01:32:35.119 --> 01:32:38.840 and this cameraman was walking around, you know, looking at 1711 01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:41.239 the with his meet to looking at lights and things, 1712 01:32:41.279 --> 01:32:44.199 and we stopped the take and Woods had to tell 1713 01:32:44.239 --> 01:32:47.720 this guy to sit down and stop moving around. He's 1714 01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:50.520 becoming a distraction. We eventually had to let him go, 1715 01:32:50.880 --> 01:32:54.760 and he understood that feature film was, you know, especially 1716 01:32:54.800 --> 01:32:57.239 a low budget of film, and Cup was not in 1717 01:32:57.279 --> 01:32:59.640 the same way of working as the commercials he had 1718 01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:02.359 been doing. And then we got Steve Nuban, who was 1719 01:33:02.359 --> 01:33:05.760 a real pro. This guy was, you know, he worked fast, 1720 01:33:05.760 --> 01:33:08.159 he got the job done. I remember when I showed 1721 01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:11.319 the picture to Stanley Kubrick, he commented how he thought 1722 01:33:11.760 --> 01:33:14.359 how good the photography was, you know, and it was 1723 01:33:14.399 --> 01:33:17.479 sort of a he doing was not known, you know, 1724 01:33:17.600 --> 01:33:21.279 like the big boys, but he came through for us, 1725 01:33:21.520 --> 01:33:26.199 and he was really terrific. I've never heard of anything 1726 01:33:26.239 --> 01:33:29.600 that Steve did after that if I just lost track 1727 01:33:29.640 --> 01:33:32.359 of him. But I would certainly love to work with 1728 01:33:32.479 --> 01:33:34.520 him again if I ever made another movie. He's a 1729 01:33:34.520 --> 01:33:34.960 good guy. 1730 01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:38.920 Yeah, he even did some directing as well. 1731 01:33:39.640 --> 01:33:41.800 Oh he did good to him. I didn't know that. 1732 01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:45.720 Then we had a terrific art director, you know, a 1733 01:33:46.039 --> 01:33:49.760 production design guy. I can't remember his name. I mean 1734 01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:54.079 we're talking nineteen eighty five, eighty six. You know what 1735 01:33:54.279 --> 01:33:56.119 was tough about that movie is when we let the 1736 01:33:56.159 --> 01:34:01.880 first photographer, first cinematographer go, and Steve Dubin had to 1737 01:34:02.239 --> 01:34:04.479 We had to go and look at all the locations again, 1738 01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:06.319 you know the time of them. You know, you have 1739 01:34:06.359 --> 01:34:08.960 to go out with a caravan, usually with your sound guy, 1740 01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:14.279 your cinematographer, maybe you're art director and look at all 1741 01:34:14.279 --> 01:34:17.159 the locations to see what problems you're in store for you. 1742 01:34:17.399 --> 01:34:19.159 Do you want to gell the windows? Do you want 1743 01:34:19.199 --> 01:34:24.159 to adjust the interior? Anyway, it was a nightmare of 1744 01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:28.000 shooting your regular stuff, and then on lunch break we 1745 01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:31.239 had to go and look at at locations in your 1746 01:34:31.279 --> 01:34:34.840 future locations so that the crew could could because we 1747 01:34:34.920 --> 01:34:37.520 have really a new crew. You've got a new cameraman 1748 01:34:37.640 --> 01:34:42.000 and a new follow focused guy and a new operator. 1749 01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:44.239 You have to go and take a look at the 1750 01:34:44.279 --> 01:34:46.920 locations to see what is in store for you. Can 1751 01:34:46.960 --> 01:34:49.279 you imagine, you know, having to shoot scenes and then 1752 01:34:49.720 --> 01:34:53.760 you only get a half hour lunch break, maybe a 1753 01:34:53.800 --> 01:34:55.840 half hour to an hour. Then you've got to get 1754 01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:58.560 in the van and go and look at the tomorrow's 1755 01:34:58.600 --> 01:35:01.439 location to see what to be done, then come back 1756 01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:03.640 and finish shooting the rest of the day. I think 1757 01:35:03.640 --> 01:35:06.560 I must have lost, you know, fifteen pounds on that move. 1758 01:35:07.079 --> 01:35:09.399 So when you talk about you know, behind the camera, 1759 01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:14.039 then we had you know, a good, good assistant director. 1760 01:35:14.119 --> 01:35:16.600 They're important. Tell them what you want and they have 1761 01:35:16.680 --> 01:35:19.199 to get it done for you. You know, they have 1762 01:35:19.279 --> 01:35:21.880 to organize the extras and you have to tell the 1763 01:35:21.960 --> 01:35:24.960 extras you know, what to do, what to wear. As 1764 01:35:24.960 --> 01:35:27.560 a director, you know, you get a million questions all 1765 01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:30.279 the time. Everybody, all the department has wants to know 1766 01:35:30.319 --> 01:35:32.079 what you want so they can give it to you. 1767 01:35:32.760 --> 01:35:36.039 And if if you're going to have a day tomorrow 1768 01:35:36.199 --> 01:35:38.960 is the day of let's say you need a hundred extras, 1769 01:35:39.199 --> 01:35:41.640 they want to know you know, what age is, you 1770 01:35:41.680 --> 01:35:44.840 know what they're black? Are they white? Are they female? 1771 01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:48.119 Are they male? You know, are they high class? You know, 1772 01:35:48.199 --> 01:35:50.199 how do you want them dressed? And then you have 1773 01:35:50.239 --> 01:35:52.319 to where do you want them place. The ones that 1774 01:35:52.720 --> 01:35:55.000 look good to you should be near the camera because 1775 01:35:55.039 --> 01:35:57.800 they'll be in focus, and the ones that you're not 1776 01:35:58.079 --> 01:36:01.000 happy with you put them in the back because they're 1777 01:36:01.000 --> 01:36:04.239 mostly out of focus. It's exhausted, you know, directing them 1778 01:36:04.239 --> 01:36:07.199 over it really is. You know, I'd love to direct now, 1779 01:36:07.199 --> 01:36:12.159 but I just don't think that i'd have the physical capabilities. 1780 01:36:12.239 --> 01:36:15.680 You know, I don't think I could be insured anymore. 1781 01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:17.880 You know, I'm going to be I'm ninety six. Now 1782 01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:21.239 I'm ninety six. I don't think I'm insurable anymore. You know, 1783 01:36:21.319 --> 01:36:23.399 if it was so innovating it when I was young, 1784 01:36:23.560 --> 01:36:25.359 you can imagine whether it be like to try to 1785 01:36:25.399 --> 01:36:27.720 do it now, because you know, there's a lot of 1786 01:36:27.800 --> 01:36:31.119 nighttime shooting too. You've got these night shots and you 1787 01:36:31.159 --> 01:36:34.000 think you could sleep all day. You can't because you've 1788 01:36:34.039 --> 01:36:36.840 got production problems to deal with during the day, so 1789 01:36:37.239 --> 01:36:39.039 you get very little sleep and you have to go 1790 01:36:39.079 --> 01:36:41.399 to work when the sun comes down. You know, you 1791 01:36:41.439 --> 01:36:43.159 get the blue out of the sky so that you 1792 01:36:43.199 --> 01:36:48.039 can start shooting. Man, it's a tough go, but I 1793 01:36:48.039 --> 01:36:50.119 don't know you s a disease you have. You know, 1794 01:36:50.279 --> 01:36:52.640 once you get bitten by the bug to be a 1795 01:36:52.640 --> 01:36:55.680 filmmaker crisis, it's hard to want to do anything else. 1796 01:36:56.199 --> 01:36:58.039 I guess you've talked to enough of them to know 1797 01:36:58.560 --> 01:37:00.680 it's a disease, is incurable. 1798 01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:03.920 You mentioned trying to keep the budget down and you 1799 01:37:03.960 --> 01:37:06.880 said it's a three million dollar film. Did I read 1800 01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:10.600 write that you and James Woods were working for scale 1801 01:37:10.680 --> 01:37:13.439 and had to keep the budget down with the rest 1802 01:37:13.439 --> 01:37:14.479 of the actors as well. 1803 01:37:15.319 --> 01:37:18.399 Uh huh. Yeah, the deal we made it was because 1804 01:37:18.560 --> 01:37:21.199 you know, they couldn't afford our real prices. So we 1805 01:37:21.720 --> 01:37:25.239 made a what you call an unadjusted gross deal where 1806 01:37:25.279 --> 01:37:28.199 we would get ten percent of the unadjusted gross of 1807 01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:32.159 the picture and we would work for nothing. But because 1808 01:37:32.159 --> 01:37:35.039 of the union, we'd have to at least get scale. 1809 01:37:35.640 --> 01:37:38.159 So I got scale for you know, director scale, and 1810 01:37:38.680 --> 01:37:42.319 Woods got active scale, and we bought the picture in 1811 01:37:42.359 --> 01:37:44.840 for under three million dollars. But we thought we'd make 1812 01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:47.560 an absolute I mean, this would be a conu minion 1813 01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:50.800 having ten percent of a gross to gross twenty five million. 1814 01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:53.239 Around the world, there's not much of a gross. I 1815 01:37:53.239 --> 01:37:55.640 mean some some pictures do that in the first weekend, 1816 01:37:55.880 --> 01:37:59.000 you know. But let's say we grossed all in, you know, 1817 01:37:59.079 --> 01:38:02.680 fifty million dollars, of which the distributor would would would 1818 01:38:02.760 --> 01:38:07.560 would get half twenty five million. We would get ten 1819 01:38:07.600 --> 01:38:10.319 percent of that with no adjustment, you know, less like 1820 01:38:10.399 --> 01:38:12.720 two and a half million. The jun and I could 1821 01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:15.920 could split up. But the company had later that's the 1822 01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:19.800 name of the company. They they went bankrupt. They went bankrupt, 1823 01:38:19.880 --> 01:38:22.479 and so they said, you know, the our deal was 1824 01:38:22.840 --> 01:38:25.880 a great deal on paper, but in practicality there was 1825 01:38:26.399 --> 01:38:28.439 had to give them. They gave the film back to 1826 01:38:28.520 --> 01:38:31.039 Woods and I we owned the film today and we 1827 01:38:31.119 --> 01:38:35.119 gave it to MGM MGM to distribute, you know, not 1828 01:38:35.319 --> 01:38:38.520 seen very much. And so you know, the whole idea 1829 01:38:38.520 --> 01:38:41.279 of working for scale and making a whole budget picture 1830 01:38:41.439 --> 01:38:44.520 was to was to really on their back end, you know, 1831 01:38:44.560 --> 01:38:47.520 make a lot of money. Talking about money, it's I 1832 01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:52.600 can't be less serious because my first love really is 1833 01:38:52.880 --> 01:38:55.079 to make the picture good. You know, it's not you know, 1834 01:38:55.119 --> 01:38:57.960 the truth be known, all of us filmmakers would work 1835 01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:01.479 for nothing because we love making films. Keep it a 1836 01:39:01.520 --> 01:39:05.479 secret that you would do that you can negotiate your 1837 01:39:05.560 --> 01:39:08.760 fair fee for doing it. So my first priority really 1838 01:39:08.800 --> 01:39:12.720 is my first love is to make a good film. Secondly, 1839 01:39:12.720 --> 01:39:16.279 it'd be nice to make some money with it as well. 1840 01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:18.640 You don't make a film to make money. I mean, 1841 01:39:18.680 --> 01:39:22.319 at least my kind of guys don't. Stanley and I 1842 01:39:22.520 --> 01:39:25.039 we never made pictures to make money. We make pictures 1843 01:39:25.039 --> 01:39:27.920 to make movies, to make pictures as good as we 1844 01:39:27.960 --> 01:39:31.520 can make them, and hope that we would make some money. 1845 01:39:31.800 --> 01:39:35.359 You want success really not to take vows, but you 1846 01:39:35.399 --> 01:39:39.039 want success to make it easier to finance your next project, 1847 01:39:39.039 --> 01:39:41.800 whatever it is. You know, the more successes you are, 1848 01:39:41.840 --> 01:39:44.560 the easier it is to get a picture made. And 1849 01:39:44.640 --> 01:39:48.239 that was always my trouble. I made these pictures that 1850 01:39:48.560 --> 01:39:52.239 for some reason they didn't like fast walking. They'd get distributed. 1851 01:39:52.720 --> 01:39:57.079 Some call it loving was it was independently distributed. Cop 1852 01:39:57.359 --> 01:40:00.840 went down the drain with Atlantic when they went bankrupt, 1853 01:40:01.479 --> 01:40:04.319 and you know, you never got the kind of recognition 1854 01:40:04.520 --> 01:40:07.239 and the kind of success that would make it easier 1855 01:40:07.960 --> 01:40:10.640 to get the next project made. I was lucky to 1856 01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:14.199 get a Bully Point made, you know, which was done 1857 01:40:14.239 --> 01:40:17.359 in the early nineties. You know, they answer a question, 1858 01:40:17.479 --> 01:40:20.000 that's that's what they working for. Scale was all about. 1859 01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:23.439 I've had the pleasure of talking with mister Elroy before. 1860 01:40:23.600 --> 01:40:26.119 He's an interesting character and I was curious as far 1861 01:40:26.159 --> 01:40:28.199 as you know, you said that you're still friends with him, 1862 01:40:28.239 --> 01:40:29.239 which is great. 1863 01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:32.000 Once I got to meet him. You know, when when 1864 01:40:32.880 --> 01:40:36.239 I made a deal to acquire who acquire the film? 1865 01:40:36.279 --> 01:40:38.199 I was to Blood on the Moon through his agent, 1866 01:40:38.600 --> 01:40:43.399 not Solo in New York, but but but Elroy came 1867 01:40:43.560 --> 01:40:47.560 to LA and when he did, naturally we got together 1868 01:40:48.199 --> 01:40:50.279 because I was the guy that was going to make 1869 01:40:50.279 --> 01:40:53.479 a film of his book and he had never had 1870 01:40:53.479 --> 01:40:55.920 a film made of his book, of any of his books, 1871 01:40:56.319 --> 01:41:00.199 so we had did it together and he was the 1872 01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:03.760 guy that who was totally honest. He wasn't devious in 1873 01:41:03.840 --> 01:41:08.039 any way. He was very helpful, he was appreciative, and 1874 01:41:08.079 --> 01:41:10.520 we became really good friends. We had a lot, we 1875 01:41:10.600 --> 01:41:14.479 spent a lot of fun times together. And if you've 1876 01:41:14.479 --> 01:41:17.000 talked to him, you know he's quite a character. But 1877 01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:19.479 the guy doesn't I mean, he speaks his mind. You know, 1878 01:41:19.560 --> 01:41:21.760 he's not a shick. He's not afraid to say anything. 1879 01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:24.640 I mean, he'll talk about his background as a vagrant. 1880 01:41:24.680 --> 01:41:27.479 He got arrested, you know, he was in jail. He's 1881 01:41:27.600 --> 01:41:30.560 we used to kid about a din and dash, you 1882 01:41:30.600 --> 01:41:32.600 know that he used to have a meal at a 1883 01:41:32.600 --> 01:41:36.079 restaurant and run for before the check came. Waite is 1884 01:41:36.199 --> 01:41:38.760 chasing him down the street. So he had, you know, 1885 01:41:38.800 --> 01:41:41.520 a real fun background. Then of course he he wrote 1886 01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:46.039 a book about his mother's murder, you know about that 1887 01:41:46.239 --> 01:41:49.359 or his mother had did one night just been I 1888 01:41:49.359 --> 01:41:52.680 don't know what the circumstances were, but she was found dead, 1889 01:41:52.800 --> 01:41:57.359 you know, having been goodally killed. That was never solved, 1890 01:41:56.239 --> 01:41:59.479 but he tried to sell that, you know, by working 1891 01:41:59.520 --> 01:42:01.439 with the detail active years after and he wrote a 1892 01:42:01.439 --> 01:42:05.239 book about it, but never never got any satisfactory results 1893 01:42:05.279 --> 01:42:07.840 from it. So he's had quite a quite a background, 1894 01:42:07.880 --> 01:42:11.800 and he used to caddy at the golf clubs here 1895 01:42:11.800 --> 01:42:15.119 in Los Angeles before he wrote his source book. It's 1896 01:42:15.159 --> 01:42:18.840 quite something and I'm still friendly with him. He's lived 1897 01:42:18.880 --> 01:42:22.239 in Denver now and we talked from time to time. 1898 01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:26.399 I've always had an arrangement that I could do because 1899 01:42:26.439 --> 01:42:28.199 The Night, you know, it was one of those three 1900 01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:32.119 books with Lloyd Hopkins. Since Woods and I, Jimmy Wood 1901 01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:35.279 and I have the we own the The Blood on 1902 01:42:35.319 --> 01:42:38.520 the Moon cop film, that means that we also own 1903 01:42:38.600 --> 01:42:42.399 the character of Lloyd Hopkins, which and I were actually 1904 01:42:42.399 --> 01:42:45.680 talking about maybe doing a series that with the grown 1905 01:42:45.760 --> 01:42:51.039 with the Lloyd Hopkins being now forty years older. But 1906 01:42:51.319 --> 01:42:54.319 the Fire came along and we've kind of started. We 1907 01:42:54.399 --> 01:42:56.479 haven't talked about it for a while. Maybe we'll pick 1908 01:42:56.520 --> 01:42:59.880 it up against at some point. That's if I'm still around. 1909 01:43:00.119 --> 01:43:03.279 Yeah, I know that you're listed as a producer on 1910 01:43:03.520 --> 01:43:06.720 Black Dalia. Was there talk of you adapting Black Dalia 1911 01:43:06.760 --> 01:43:07.279 at some point? 1912 01:43:08.079 --> 01:43:12.039 Yeah, I made a deal after a cop and since 1913 01:43:12.079 --> 01:43:14.960 I was so friendly with Elboy at that time. Ever, 1914 01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:18.840 I needed a new car, I said, he said, you 1915 01:43:18.840 --> 01:43:21.800 know I was interested in the Black Dalua. He said, look, 1916 01:43:22.079 --> 01:43:24.239 he said, why don't you get me, you know, give 1917 01:43:24.239 --> 01:43:27.199 me the money for a car and you can you 1918 01:43:27.239 --> 01:43:30.199 can have you can. Well, that'll give you the option 1919 01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:34.159 on the Black. He said, I'll tell my agent. You know, 1920 01:43:34.479 --> 01:43:38.239 you call my agent and you make an offer. He'll 1921 01:43:38.239 --> 01:43:40.760 of course think it's too little and everything, but he'll 1922 01:43:40.920 --> 01:43:43.239 be a large to ask his client and I'll accept 1923 01:43:43.279 --> 01:43:48.079 these And he said, I'll accept the offer. And he said, 1924 01:43:48.159 --> 01:43:50.399 then we'll do it that way. So the next day 1925 01:43:50.399 --> 01:43:54.600 I called up his agent and I made an offer 1926 01:43:54.640 --> 01:43:57.000 of twenty five thousand dollars for I guess it was 1927 01:43:57.039 --> 01:44:02.039 the year eighteen month option on the Black Guys. He said, oh, 1928 01:44:02.319 --> 01:44:05.359 you know, that's no idea what we would take for that, 1929 01:44:05.520 --> 01:44:07.880 he said. I said, well, why don't you check it 1930 01:44:07.880 --> 01:44:10.760 out with your client and maybe He called me back 1931 01:44:10.760 --> 01:44:13.239 and he said, I don't understand this, he said, but 1932 01:44:13.239 --> 01:44:16.159 but he accepted. So we got to make a deal. 1933 01:44:16.279 --> 01:44:18.920 So I made So I made a deal and I 1934 01:44:18.960 --> 01:44:21.680 wrote it for Woods. I mean, I talked to Jimmy 1935 01:44:21.760 --> 01:44:23.640 once about it. When he heard that I that I 1936 01:44:23.680 --> 01:44:26.560 had acquired and he wanted immediately to play the part 1937 01:44:27.279 --> 01:44:30.279 of the of the cop and so I sat down 1938 01:44:30.319 --> 01:44:33.960 and wrote. I wrote the screenpoint, but Woods got busy 1939 01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:36.680 doing other things and I made a deal with it 1940 01:44:36.720 --> 01:44:41.359 with a German company, Capella Films. So I made a 1941 01:44:41.399 --> 01:44:44.720 deal to direct the film, and the Boiling Point had 1942 01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:47.960 had become alive, and I had to do that first. 1943 01:44:48.439 --> 01:44:51.239 I had such a bad experience with one of brothers 1944 01:44:51.279 --> 01:44:54.439 and the French company, you know Ken Kennel Plus. Have 1945 01:44:54.520 --> 01:44:58.800 you heard of that company? They financed The Boiling Point 1946 01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:01.640 and they wanted to say the picture to Warner Brothers. Now, 1947 01:45:01.640 --> 01:45:07.560 Warner Brothers had a film with Wesley Snipes called Passenger 1948 01:45:07.560 --> 01:45:10.560 of fifty seven and it was a big success for them, 1949 01:45:10.680 --> 01:45:14.159 and they wanted another Passenger of fifty seven type movie 1950 01:45:14.199 --> 01:45:18.119 with Wesley Snipes. So they were interested in buying the 1951 01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:23.399 North American distribution rights from for Canon Plus. But they 1952 01:45:23.479 --> 01:45:28.399 wanted the the editing to be changed so that it 1953 01:45:28.399 --> 01:45:32.039 would be more of a action film, which which is impossible. 1954 01:45:32.359 --> 01:45:34.920 You know, I did not plan on being an action film. 1955 01:45:34.960 --> 01:45:37.680 It was more of a study about the that there's 1956 01:45:37.720 --> 01:45:40.680 a fine line in fact, there's not much difference between 1957 01:45:40.720 --> 01:45:43.840 the criminal and the cop as far as their private 1958 01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:45.960 lives are concerned. They live the same kind of life. 1959 01:45:46.600 --> 01:45:50.840 And so I did not have final cut on Boiling Point, 1960 01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:53.960 and it was such an an unpleasant experience to have 1961 01:45:54.039 --> 01:45:58.000 to deal with, you know, having my directors cut, mishandled 1962 01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:01.079 and miss cut, mis edited, which I had to do. 1963 01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:04.159 I mean if I quit and walked away, God knows 1964 01:46:04.199 --> 01:46:05.760 what they would have done with it. So I at 1965 01:46:05.880 --> 01:46:10.119 least stuck around to win some of the arguments. But 1966 01:46:10.239 --> 01:46:12.399 what it did was it was it. It made me 1967 01:46:12.399 --> 01:46:14.880 feel I never wanted to do another film. But I 1968 01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:18.600 didn't have final cut, and I knew that my next 1969 01:46:18.600 --> 01:46:22.920 schedule picture would be would be The Black Dahalia and 1970 01:46:23.079 --> 01:46:26.239 they Capella was was making a deal with Universal at 1971 01:46:26.239 --> 01:46:28.880 that time, and I know I could never get final 1972 01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:32.239 cut from Universal. Only the big, the absolute big top 1973 01:46:32.279 --> 01:46:36.000 directors could get final cut. And so I decided that 1974 01:46:36.279 --> 01:46:39.520 I just want to remove myself from that project. So 1975 01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:42.920 they brought me out and they gave me a producer, 1976 01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:46.560 you know, executive producer credit on the picture. I was 1977 01:46:46.600 --> 01:46:50.720 not going to subject myself to another where some production 1978 01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:53.800 executive at a studio can can ruin your movie, you know, 1979 01:46:53.840 --> 01:46:55.960 it can recut it or re edit it because they 1980 01:46:55.960 --> 01:46:59.399 think they previews didn't turn out as as as favorable 1981 01:46:59.439 --> 01:47:02.359 as I had hope. It's a tough go when you 1982 01:47:02.359 --> 01:47:05.079 you know, when you can't control, you know, the final 1983 01:47:05.239 --> 01:47:09.079 edit of your funnel. You know, the Directors Guild all 1984 01:47:09.119 --> 01:47:11.479 the studios are signatories to that, so they have to 1985 01:47:11.560 --> 01:47:15.520 abide by the contract. But the contract only provides two 1986 01:47:15.560 --> 01:47:18.960 previews for the director of his cut, and once you've 1987 01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:23.039 had the two, whoever has final cut takes over and 1988 01:47:23.600 --> 01:47:26.720 you're finished. I didn't want to subject myself to that again, 1989 01:47:26.960 --> 01:47:29.920 and so that was the story where that's why I 1990 01:47:29.920 --> 01:47:32.359 got the credit. You know, I got paid off pretty 1991 01:47:32.439 --> 01:47:33.920 nicely to step away. 1992 01:47:34.720 --> 01:47:36.680 I would have loved to have seen what you could 1993 01:47:36.720 --> 01:47:39.560 have done with Black Dahalia, because I was not very 1994 01:47:39.600 --> 01:47:41.439 happy with the final product. 1995 01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:45.199 Man, you should have seen Elroy talk about being unhappy. 1996 01:47:45.600 --> 01:47:49.279 Elder and I went to the they had a special 1997 01:47:49.319 --> 01:47:52.520 showing at the Academy Theater, you know, the one on 1998 01:47:52.600 --> 01:47:57.600 Wilson Boulevard. Both of us were really disappointed, and particularly Elroy, 1999 01:47:57.680 --> 01:48:00.159 I mean he was he thought it was terrible. They 2000 01:48:00.159 --> 01:48:03.800 didn't approach it the way would they Elroy and I 2001 01:48:03.520 --> 01:48:06.760 and and Woods would have done. We've handled it differently, 2002 01:48:06.920 --> 01:48:09.319 but they bounced around with a lot of directors. They 2003 01:48:09.319 --> 01:48:12.600 foundly around up with with uh the Palmer. He had 2004 01:48:12.640 --> 01:48:14.560 done some good work in his in his in his 2005 01:48:15.359 --> 01:48:17.600 you know, in his hormography. There were some good films 2006 01:48:17.640 --> 01:48:20.760 that he had done. But he also you know, sometimes 2007 01:48:20.760 --> 01:48:23.279 he really missed the mark, you know, like in the 2008 01:48:23.399 --> 01:48:26.640 Bonfire the Vanities, you remember that one and and and 2009 01:48:26.800 --> 01:48:29.920 now now backed down. It didn't turn out the way 2010 01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:34.039 it should have either. But anyway, uh, that was too 2011 01:48:34.079 --> 01:48:38.279 bad because it was it was a very interesting subject. 2012 01:48:38.880 --> 01:48:41.039 He's still doing it, you know, he still write novels 2013 01:48:41.079 --> 01:48:44.119 and that's what that's how we spent it. It's tough 2014 01:48:44.159 --> 01:48:48.239 to see what they're publishing and what book things are 2015 01:48:48.279 --> 01:48:52.239 like nowadays, you know, because Amazon has just put everybody 2016 01:48:52.239 --> 01:48:56.000 out of business except maybe maybe Barnes and Nobles, the 2017 01:48:56.000 --> 01:48:59.159 only one is still going. But anyway, Elthoy is still 2018 01:48:59.199 --> 01:49:01.880 writing those novels about l A in the in the 2019 01:49:01.920 --> 01:49:06.000 forties and the stuff that's the saber subject. They become 2020 01:49:06.000 --> 01:49:10.119 more convoluted, you know, his earlier work was not as 2021 01:49:10.840 --> 01:49:15.640 is what he calls dense, you know his you know, 2022 01:49:15.680 --> 01:49:20.960 once he got passed, I guess, I guess l A 2023 01:49:21.079 --> 01:49:25.279 Confidential started to get really his style of writing is, 2024 01:49:25.520 --> 01:49:27.880 you know, you really have to be paying attention because 2025 01:49:28.399 --> 01:49:30.680 a lot of times you can't. You know, you can 2026 01:49:30.720 --> 01:49:33.159 only read so many pages in the city, so you 2027 01:49:33.199 --> 01:49:35.520 have to come back to it the next day when 2028 01:49:35.600 --> 01:49:38.079 stuff is that convaluted, and stuff is tough to remember 2029 01:49:38.119 --> 01:49:40.279 what you read the day before. So you look at 2030 01:49:40.439 --> 01:49:43.439 you look at Elroy's works, and then you have to 2031 01:49:43.439 --> 01:49:46.479 really stay as focused, you know, when you're reading that stuff, 2032 01:49:47.600 --> 01:49:51.000 you know, to understand it all. But it's he's so 2033 01:49:51.279 --> 01:49:54.159 he's so clever, and he's so talented. It's a pleasure 2034 01:49:54.239 --> 01:49:56.720 to I mean, I think, you know, I'm a lucky 2035 01:49:56.760 --> 01:49:58.920 guy to I mean, just think of the people that 2036 01:50:00.119 --> 01:50:03.039 I've got to work with, like Kubrick, for God's sake, 2037 01:50:03.079 --> 01:50:07.119 he's probably one of the finest best directors ever. And 2038 01:50:07.199 --> 01:50:11.159 el Roy, you know, probably taking the place of Raymond 2039 01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:15.000 Sandler and nash O Hammont and James King and all 2040 01:50:15.039 --> 01:50:17.760 those people. And then King Jim Thompson, you know who 2041 01:50:17.800 --> 01:50:21.239 we work with on The Killing Impairs of Glory. And 2042 01:50:21.640 --> 01:50:24.560 then then el Roy, you know, you know, you're talking 2043 01:50:24.600 --> 01:50:28.720 about crime writers. The best Elbroy certainly is probably at 2044 01:50:28.720 --> 01:50:31.680 the head of a group right now. It's probably a 2045 01:50:31.720 --> 01:50:34.560 reason why they don't get made, you know, into movies. 2046 01:50:35.039 --> 01:50:39.000 It's probably much more of a novel and interesting than 2047 01:50:39.039 --> 01:50:41.199 it would be, I mean to try to find a 2048 01:50:41.239 --> 01:50:44.439 way to tell a story in movie terms. You know. 2049 01:50:44.680 --> 01:50:46.920 Just there's just no question about his talent. I mean 2050 01:50:46.960 --> 01:50:52.239 that that's that that can cannot be denied. And also, 2051 01:50:52.640 --> 01:50:55.199 I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm a little weird 2052 01:50:55.279 --> 01:50:58.640 or something, but I found him to be really really 2053 01:50:58.680 --> 01:51:02.760 I mean, with all the prinsicities. He was a good friend. 2054 01:51:02.840 --> 01:51:04.840 I mean, he was an interesting guy and fun to 2055 01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:06.960 be with. And we used to spend a lot of 2056 01:51:07.000 --> 01:51:10.079 time at the Pacific Dining Car, which went out of 2057 01:51:10.119 --> 01:51:14.039 business recently, but that was a big popular restaurant in 2058 01:51:14.079 --> 01:51:18.840 downtown LA. He was married there actually, at the Pacific 2059 01:51:18.880 --> 01:51:23.399 Dining Car. He was dressed if if you saw pictures 2060 01:51:23.439 --> 01:51:25.960 of him when he was very he was wearing a kilt, 2061 01:51:26.359 --> 01:51:29.880 you know, a Scottish kilt, So that gives a little idea. Yeah, 2062 01:51:29.960 --> 01:51:34.079 what a character to be wearing a kilt. But he's 2063 01:51:34.159 --> 01:51:36.439 a winner for me. I'll have to talk to him, 2064 01:51:36.560 --> 01:51:39.199 you know, just to say hello at some point. But 2065 01:51:39.319 --> 01:51:41.520 I can just hear him say, you know, he's the 2066 01:51:41.880 --> 01:51:45.600 you know, the dog. You know he's he calls himself dog. 2067 01:51:46.399 --> 01:51:50.279 You know, he's the dog of of American literature. 2068 01:51:51.439 --> 01:51:54.520 Well, mister Harris, thank you so much. I really cannot 2069 01:51:54.560 --> 01:51:56.479 tell you how much I appreciate you taking this time 2070 01:51:56.520 --> 01:52:00.000 to talk to me today. Call me Jimmy, Jimmy, thanks, 2071 01:52:00.000 --> 01:52:01.840 thank you, Thank you so much for your time. 2072 01:52:01.960 --> 01:52:02.119 Yeah. 2073 01:52:02.119 --> 01:52:03.800 Well it's fun for me too, you know, I just 2074 01:52:04.039 --> 01:52:06.319 get a kick out of it. I hope there's an 2075 01:52:06.319 --> 01:52:08.800 awful lot of stuff that you have to deal with. 2076 01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:14.840 We are back and we were talking about cop and Rod. 2077 01:52:14.880 --> 01:52:19.039 I believe you mentioned before the earlier version of Blood 2078 01:52:19.079 --> 01:52:22.039 on the Moon, which was called La Death Trip. And 2079 01:52:22.079 --> 01:52:25.479 it was very interesting reading last night about why that 2080 01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:29.159 book is the way that it is, and that this 2081 01:52:29.479 --> 01:52:33.079 was Elroy having done those two books that you mentioned, 2082 01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:37.199 Andrew Clandestine and Brown's Requiem. He did that for I 2083 01:52:37.239 --> 01:52:41.199 think Avon and then he said either he lost his 2084 01:52:41.319 --> 01:52:45.439 contract or he tried to sell La Death Trip to 2085 01:52:45.600 --> 01:52:48.720 them and they said no fucking way. And he tried 2086 01:52:49.479 --> 01:52:53.920 seventeen different publishers to get La Death Trip made before 2087 01:52:53.960 --> 01:52:58.279 he ended up meeting with Mysterious Press and Mysterious Press 2088 01:52:59.079 --> 01:53:01.039 Otto and I can't remember the other guy's name. They 2089 01:53:01.079 --> 01:53:03.960 were like, yeah, no, this isn't going to fly the 2090 01:53:03.960 --> 01:53:05.800 way it is, but there is a book here, so 2091 01:53:05.880 --> 01:53:08.079 let's try to get the book out of La Draft 2092 01:53:08.079 --> 01:53:12.279 Trip because man, oh man, what four hundred and twenty 2093 01:53:12.319 --> 01:53:17.960 three pages and you can see the bones of Blood 2094 01:53:17.960 --> 01:53:20.319 on the Moon inside of there, but it goes in 2095 01:53:20.439 --> 01:53:23.840 a lot of other ways. So Rod, it sounds like 2096 01:53:23.920 --> 01:53:25.159 you read this one. Do you want to talk a 2097 01:53:25.159 --> 01:53:27.680 little bit about your impressions of La Death Trip. 2098 01:53:28.560 --> 01:53:30.920 I didn't really care for it because it is the 2099 01:53:31.520 --> 01:53:35.560 bones are I mean, the flesh that's on them is 2100 01:53:35.960 --> 01:53:38.840 really similar to what we actually got in Blood on 2101 01:53:38.880 --> 01:53:42.079 the Moon, but it is also different. It's like the 2102 01:53:42.159 --> 01:53:46.319 same sort of things happen, they just are told differently 2103 01:53:46.640 --> 01:53:50.800 or expanded upon in ways that you know, then we're 2104 01:53:50.800 --> 01:53:55.079 trimmed down, Like I somewhat confused the two. I don't 2105 01:53:55.119 --> 01:53:59.600 remember exactly what I read from Death Trip versus Blood 2106 01:53:59.640 --> 01:54:05.479 and Moon, but I just remembered not really liking Death Trip. 2107 01:54:05.960 --> 01:54:09.640 I'm having trouble putting it into words. But what's weird 2108 01:54:09.920 --> 01:54:14.840 about that is both the books. Both those books have 2109 01:54:15.039 --> 01:54:19.319 shared some of the same dialogue that then Harris copies 2110 01:54:19.560 --> 01:54:22.760 pastes into his script for Cop Like there are scenes 2111 01:54:22.800 --> 01:54:27.000 where the dialogue is, if not one hundred ninety percent 2112 01:54:27.119 --> 01:54:31.279 the same Ellie death trip, it feels undisciplined. I didn't 2113 01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:35.000 compare the page numbers to see how they work out 2114 01:54:35.000 --> 01:54:39.039 that way, like if one is considerably longer than the other, 2115 01:54:39.840 --> 01:54:42.399 but it just seems to go on more tangents. I 2116 01:54:42.399 --> 01:54:46.399 feel like, I know I wouldn't have read another another 2117 01:54:46.399 --> 01:54:48.279 book in that series if it had come out. 2118 01:54:49.239 --> 01:54:51.800 Well, there was no Lloyd Hopkins to go back to. 2119 01:54:52.800 --> 01:54:55.640 That's the big change. He grenades himself to death, I 2120 01:54:55.680 --> 01:54:58.399 guess though he's trying. 2121 01:54:58.119 --> 01:55:02.479 To kill Dutch and all of the helicopter pilots and 2122 01:55:02.560 --> 01:55:06.800 all of the cops, he's basically taking out innocent bystanders 2123 01:55:06.800 --> 01:55:09.119 and victims. At the end of the book, you're like, 2124 01:55:09.640 --> 01:55:12.720 what are you doing, Lloyd, Like he just wants to 2125 01:55:12.760 --> 01:55:15.159 burn it all down. I know that Elroy himself has 2126 01:55:15.159 --> 01:55:19.119 talked about how the book ends with La on fire, 2127 01:55:19.199 --> 01:55:21.960 and I was like, well, not La, like just around 2128 01:55:21.960 --> 01:55:26.159 that power station at Silver Lake again. But yeah, it 2129 01:55:26.199 --> 01:55:30.119 wasn't all of LA though. You get that apocalypse more. 2130 01:55:30.439 --> 01:55:33.720 I think with the opening, well, one of the opening 2131 01:55:33.760 --> 01:55:39.079 scenes with the Watts riot, which is interesting. How many 2132 01:55:39.239 --> 01:55:43.279 books of el Roy's begin with riots that happen in 2133 01:55:44.119 --> 01:55:47.399 LA Because I want to say that La Confidential starts 2134 01:55:47.520 --> 01:55:51.880 either La Confidential or maybe Black Dalia starts. 2135 01:55:53.319 --> 01:55:59.840 The two cop characters bomb during the zoot Suit roots. 2136 01:56:00.920 --> 01:56:03.239 So yeah, it's interesting how many of these books start 2137 01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.720 with that. And it's not two guys that rape Teddy, 2138 01:56:06.840 --> 01:56:10.279 it's five guys. So we kind of blow that out 2139 01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:13.800 and then we meet Catherine really early in the book. 2140 01:56:14.560 --> 01:56:16.800 Yeah, there's a lot of war stuff too, which I 2141 01:56:16.840 --> 01:56:19.479 didn't think works very well. I don't know, it seems 2142 01:56:19.479 --> 01:56:24.680 like a different genre. I generally don't like war stories 2143 01:56:24.680 --> 01:56:29.159 in general, so I'm kind of maybe predisposed to disliking it. 2144 01:56:29.239 --> 01:56:31.399 But I didn't feel like you added anything. 2145 01:56:32.279 --> 01:56:35.920 Well, that's interesting because that's also going back to La Confidential. 2146 01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:38.800 The whole thing of Exley in World War Two, like 2147 01:56:38.840 --> 01:56:42.880 that's his secret shame of how he survived by pretending 2148 01:56:42.920 --> 01:56:45.079 to be a dead body, or like crawling under a 2149 01:56:45.079 --> 01:56:48.680 whole heap of dead bodies, and that's how he I 2150 01:56:48.680 --> 01:56:51.279 think he ends up winning like the Medal of Honor 2151 01:56:51.359 --> 01:56:54.279 or something, because they think he's the hero of this battle. 2152 01:56:54.279 --> 01:56:56.640 But he actually hid under all of these bodies, and 2153 01:56:56.680 --> 01:56:59.680 that's the secret he carries around at all times. 2154 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:02.600 I probably shouldn't have read both books the same day. 2155 01:57:03.159 --> 01:57:04.720 They really do bleed together. 2156 01:57:05.239 --> 01:57:05.640 They do. 2157 01:57:05.920 --> 01:57:09.159 Yeah, those details like yeah, the five guys versus two, 2158 01:57:09.239 --> 01:57:12.000 those are the things that it didn't immediately come to 2159 01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:14.680 mind until you mentioned it. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. 2160 01:57:15.279 --> 01:57:19.840 Including two beaners, as el Roight would say. Jesus, you 2161 01:57:20.000 --> 01:57:23.840 learned so many new racial epithets when you read James 2162 01:57:24.199 --> 01:57:25.279 right books. 2163 01:57:25.279 --> 01:57:31.000 Also just sexual like wiener wagging and things like that. 2164 01:57:31.840 --> 01:57:34.159 I'm a big fan of the term fuck pad. That's 2165 01:57:34.600 --> 01:57:36.920 my favorite eer roy esque term. 2166 01:57:37.399 --> 01:57:41.479 White. He is introduced as an albino Robert Mitcham Right. 2167 01:57:41.880 --> 01:57:46.279 Yeah, and again, I mean Elroy's almost a bit of 2168 01:57:46.279 --> 01:57:49.119 a sort of bit more of a sad character now, 2169 01:57:49.159 --> 01:57:50.640 I think, I mean a bit of a bit of 2170 01:57:50.680 --> 01:57:54.439 a bit of a talking want to be headline. And 2171 01:57:54.479 --> 01:57:56.199 you know he's got that whole He's got that film 2172 01:57:56.239 --> 01:57:59.640 coming out, el Roy Versus l I where I mean, 2173 01:57:59.680 --> 01:58:02.560 I think, is there any aspect of his life he 2174 01:58:02.600 --> 01:58:08.760 hasn't dredged up for profit? But you know, obviously that 2175 01:58:08.960 --> 01:58:10.600 on the other side of it, you know, the guy 2176 01:58:10.880 --> 01:58:15.720 blew It's incredibly hard working and blew a massive hole 2177 01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:18.560 in the middle of what we thought crime fiction could 2178 01:58:18.560 --> 01:58:21.600 be in the in the nineteen eighties. And I mean 2179 01:58:21.640 --> 01:58:24.720 it's a function of the fact that he's so influential 2180 01:58:24.720 --> 01:58:29.079 that he's never been canceled because he has influenced most 2181 01:58:29.840 --> 01:58:33.680 major crime writers working today would have been influenced by 2182 01:58:33.720 --> 01:58:36.439 all war and fair enough too. I mean the guy, 2183 01:58:36.479 --> 01:58:38.680 as I say, he blew a massive hole in the 2184 01:58:38.680 --> 01:58:40.520 middle of what we thought crime fiction could. 2185 01:58:40.319 --> 01:58:45.920 Be, such a mythic figure, and it was surprising to 2186 01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:50.600 me yesterday to realize this cop came out in the 2187 01:58:50.600 --> 01:58:53.560 eighty eight and he'dn't even been writing books for like 2188 01:58:54.159 --> 01:58:56.119 less than a decade by then, I think, or at 2189 01:58:56.159 --> 01:58:59.520 least published less than a decade. I mean, he hadn't 2190 01:58:59.560 --> 01:59:03.520 been writing that long publist author that long. And it 2191 01:59:03.760 --> 01:59:07.960 just seems like he looms so large in the world 2192 01:59:08.279 --> 01:59:13.359 of crime fiction and pop culture, you know as a whole, 2193 01:59:13.399 --> 01:59:17.600 that he seems one of those guys who have been 2194 01:59:17.640 --> 01:59:21.439 at it since the fifties. I mean, he's obviously not 2195 01:59:21.520 --> 01:59:23.840 he's not that age, but he seems like he should 2196 01:59:23.920 --> 01:59:29.000 have been. Like it's just amazing to me that he wasn't. 2197 01:59:29.000 --> 01:59:32.359 He's relatively new in the grand scheme of things. 2198 01:59:32.800 --> 01:59:36.760 Yeah, Brown's Requiem came out in eighty one, and I 2199 01:59:36.840 --> 01:59:40.920 don't know if he made his bones doing short stories 2200 01:59:41.000 --> 01:59:42.840 or not, because I know he's definitely done a lot 2201 01:59:42.840 --> 01:59:43.399 of short. 2202 01:59:43.199 --> 01:59:45.439 Stories also my knowledge, I mean he was banging out. 2203 01:59:45.479 --> 01:59:48.720 He was banging Brown's Recreem Clandestine, as you said. And 2204 01:59:50.159 --> 01:59:53.920 then those three Floyd Hopkins books, none of which that's 2205 01:59:53.960 --> 01:59:57.239 five books, none of which did well. So he's also 2206 01:59:57.279 --> 01:59:59.079 had a dream run. So he's also had a good 2207 02:00:00.079 --> 02:00:04.079 good run. I mean, most crime fiction authors today wouldn't 2208 02:00:04.119 --> 02:00:06.680 be able to do, you know, I wouldn't be able 2209 02:00:06.760 --> 02:00:09.239 to have five failed books and just keep on going, 2210 02:00:10.119 --> 02:00:12.039 which is a problem with where crime fiction is at 2211 02:00:12.079 --> 02:00:12.560 at the moment. 2212 02:00:13.880 --> 02:00:16.399 I honestly don't think I've read any of his books 2213 02:00:16.399 --> 02:00:20.720 since the called six thousand back in two thousand and one. 2214 02:00:20.880 --> 02:00:22.920 I mean, I've got Bloods of Rover, I can see 2215 02:00:22.920 --> 02:00:27.199 it right here, and somebody gave that to me, or 2216 02:00:27.239 --> 02:00:29.880 maybe the book committed sent it to me. But anyway, 2217 02:00:30.880 --> 02:00:34.560 they've had that since two thousand and nine, and still 2218 02:00:34.640 --> 02:00:35.800 haven't read that one. 2219 02:00:35.920 --> 02:00:38.119 And I did, like Bloods are over, and I tried 2220 02:00:38.159 --> 02:00:40.560 reading Perfidiou. I think I've got one hundred pages into 2221 02:00:40.560 --> 02:00:43.439 the Fidya and I just thought, I can't this is garbage. 2222 02:00:43.479 --> 02:00:46.680 I don't like it. And I did read what was 2223 02:00:46.720 --> 02:00:50.680 the book that he did was sid on Sid Hutchins, 2224 02:00:50.760 --> 02:00:54.479 the hush hush journalist. Was it widespread panic? 2225 02:00:54.880 --> 02:00:59.039 Okay, yeah, they call that the fred Otash spread Otash. 2226 02:00:59.079 --> 02:01:03.560 Sorry, not so not Sid Hutchins. It was fred fred Otash. 2227 02:01:03.600 --> 02:01:06.920 And again I just thought, this is just a kind 2228 02:01:06.920 --> 02:01:08.920 of a variation on a theme. You know, I'm not 2229 02:01:09.000 --> 02:01:13.079 really getting a lot out of this. So I haven't 2230 02:01:13.399 --> 02:01:15.840 gone to any of his books. I haven't read any 2231 02:01:16.199 --> 02:01:18.920 I haven't read how was it After the Dead, Usual, 2232 02:01:19.000 --> 02:01:21.560 After the Fall or whatever, the sequel to Perfidio. And 2233 02:01:21.600 --> 02:01:23.479 then there was another one after that. I haven't read 2234 02:01:23.520 --> 02:01:26.840 any of those. And there's big books, you know, you 2235 02:01:26.920 --> 02:01:28.039 really got to commit yourself. 2236 02:01:28.680 --> 02:01:31.359 The most recent one I read, which was over Covid, 2237 02:01:31.479 --> 02:01:34.039 wasn't even a novel. It was his book Crime Wave, 2238 02:01:34.159 --> 02:01:38.840 which is a collection of short stories and reporting, like 2239 02:01:38.880 --> 02:01:44.560 I think specifically for it's either Esquire or GQ with JQ. Yeah, 2240 02:01:44.640 --> 02:01:48.119 those are excellent. I think those are those articles are fantastic. 2241 02:01:48.680 --> 02:01:51.319 The way he does journalism, it kind of gets to 2242 02:01:51.359 --> 02:01:54.079 what you were seeing in earlier about the how he 2243 02:01:54.600 --> 02:01:59.479 shows the the procedural aspects of being a cop. I 2244 02:01:59.600 --> 02:02:02.439 just I think think like how he approaches journalism too. 2245 02:02:03.279 --> 02:02:06.359 I mean, he's not the first crime writer to mine 2246 02:02:06.720 --> 02:02:10.680 LA history for a crime fiction book, but he the 2247 02:02:10.720 --> 02:02:16.079 materials he was using, old cop files, old tabloid magazines, 2248 02:02:16.319 --> 02:02:20.720 old pop novels, retired cops. I think that's that was 2249 02:02:20.800 --> 02:02:23.279 part of the innovation. That and that and that world 2250 02:02:23.439 --> 02:02:28.399 he created from that was also part of his you 2251 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:31.960 know innovation. I mean everyone does that now, but I 2252 02:02:32.000 --> 02:02:35.840 don't think so many people were doing it before Elroy 2253 02:02:36.000 --> 02:02:40.359 was doing it. I just wish he wasn't to use 2254 02:02:40.439 --> 02:02:44.199 his terminology so much of a shipbird these days, because, 2255 02:02:44.319 --> 02:02:46.439 as I say, I want to be really clear, I 2256 02:02:46.439 --> 02:02:49.520 mean I love Elroy. I mean there's el Roy books 2257 02:02:49.520 --> 02:02:52.479 I will still reread. I've read The Big Nowhere at 2258 02:02:52.600 --> 02:02:55.720 least five times, and I think it's you know, that's 2259 02:02:55.720 --> 02:02:59.199 his Red Scare novel, his second book in the in 2260 02:02:59.239 --> 02:03:01.960 the On These, in the in the Quintet series, and 2261 02:03:02.039 --> 02:03:04.479 I just think he's brilliant. But I also think he's 2262 02:03:04.520 --> 02:03:07.359 had a really good run, and he's as I say, 2263 02:03:07.439 --> 02:03:12.399 he had five really poorly selling books that he still 2264 02:03:12.479 --> 02:03:16.800 kept getting opportunities. Then he had the Hollywood scriptwriting gravy train, 2265 02:03:16.880 --> 02:03:18.800 which is that's kind of dead now, and then he 2266 02:03:18.920 --> 02:03:23.479 had a glossy magazine, GQ, sending him all over America 2267 02:03:23.600 --> 02:03:26.840 to report on true crime story. So he's also none 2268 02:03:26.880 --> 02:03:30.359 of those things exists anymore, and he's written every single 2269 02:03:30.359 --> 02:03:32.159 one of those right waves, and good on him. He's 2270 02:03:32.199 --> 02:03:35.000 a hard worker, but I don't I don't see him 2271 02:03:35.000 --> 02:03:38.560 as some sort of outside demon dog. You know, this 2272 02:03:38.640 --> 02:03:43.039 persona that he cultivates now is kind of annoying. I mean, 2273 02:03:43.079 --> 02:03:45.279 the only outside I think about him now as everyone 2274 02:03:45.399 --> 02:03:52.279 kind of knows he's a racist. I mean that's. 2275 02:03:51.600 --> 02:03:56.199 I've interviewed him twice now, and both times is just 2276 02:03:56.960 --> 02:04:00.680 he's so difficult and he just has clinging to that 2277 02:04:00.880 --> 02:04:05.600 persona the whole time that he just wants to be disagreeable, 2278 02:04:05.840 --> 02:04:08.640 and it's like, can you just give me an interview. 2279 02:04:08.720 --> 02:04:08.960 I am. 2280 02:04:09.399 --> 02:04:11.720 I am a fan of your work. I've been reading 2281 02:04:11.760 --> 02:04:16.720 your work since the late nineties if net earlier, and 2282 02:04:17.159 --> 02:04:21.439 I really like what I'm reading and I would love 2283 02:04:21.479 --> 02:04:23.479 to talk to you about your stuff. But he just 2284 02:04:23.640 --> 02:04:26.439 gets to be you know, I think I commented on 2285 02:04:26.479 --> 02:04:29.399 your Instagram or blue Skuy the other day. It's like 2286 02:04:29.399 --> 02:04:33.800 he's king Curmudgeon. He's just like the most curmudgeonly author 2287 02:04:33.840 --> 02:04:36.039 that there is out there. And it's like, well, this 2288 02:04:36.239 --> 02:04:39.560 doesn't do anything for me, and it doesn't feel like 2289 02:04:39.600 --> 02:04:41.840 it's doing anything for you, so like, why are we 2290 02:04:41.880 --> 02:04:44.279 even doing this? So I was kind of like, I 2291 02:04:44.279 --> 02:04:46.159 would like to talk to you about cop but at 2292 02:04:46.159 --> 02:04:47.680 the same time, you're just going to tell me how 2293 02:04:47.720 --> 02:04:51.479 much you dislike adaptations of your work. It's the same thing. 2294 02:04:51.800 --> 02:04:54.640 And he's done well and he's and he's canon. So 2295 02:04:54.680 --> 02:04:57.439 I stopped winchy because really, you are you know, and 2296 02:04:57.520 --> 02:05:01.800 you you've also managed to sc a fairly nasty cancel, 2297 02:05:02.000 --> 02:05:04.479 so you know, if we go back and read the 2298 02:05:04.479 --> 02:05:06.720 stuff in your book. I mean, I'm not saying that 2299 02:05:06.760 --> 02:05:09.119 he should be canceled, but I'm not I was kind 2300 02:05:09.119 --> 02:05:11.079 of waiting for it to happen. It never did because 2301 02:05:11.079 --> 02:05:14.479 the guy's so influential, because all the crime writers who 2302 02:05:14.520 --> 02:05:18.000 would potentially cancel him have also been influenced by him. So, 2303 02:05:18.079 --> 02:05:21.680 I mean, the other guys, the guy's so so important 2304 02:05:21.720 --> 02:05:24.199 in that crime fiction culture. I don't know what he 2305 02:05:24.239 --> 02:05:28.399 thinks about the adaptation of Cop. I know he he's 2306 02:05:28.479 --> 02:05:29.319 bagged out of La. 2307 02:05:29.319 --> 02:05:31.960 Confidential, which is crazy to me. 2308 02:05:32.600 --> 02:05:35.439 Insane because it's such a as you as you said, Rod, 2309 02:05:35.479 --> 02:05:37.159 it's such a good film. I mean, you know, I 2310 02:05:37.159 --> 02:05:39.039 don't think it's Yeah, it's really good. 2311 02:05:39.640 --> 02:05:41.920 It's it's not only that it's a I think I've 2312 02:05:41.920 --> 02:05:45.800 seen it three times and it's a movie that gets better. 2313 02:05:46.119 --> 02:05:48.600 Yeah, I agree, I totally agree. I totally agree. 2314 02:05:49.199 --> 02:05:52.800 Yeah, and you see echoes. I mean watching Cop again 2315 02:05:53.079 --> 02:05:56.840 a few months ago before I interviewed Harris again and 2316 02:05:57.199 --> 02:05:59.960 the scene with Whitey comes up where he's playing rush 2317 02:06:00.039 --> 02:06:02.720 and Roulette or you know, Hopkins is playing Russian Roulette 2318 02:06:02.760 --> 02:06:06.600 with him kind of, I mean, basically just holding a 2319 02:06:06.800 --> 02:06:10.399 gun with one bullet in the chamber and pulling it. 2320 02:06:10.600 --> 02:06:14.239 And my wife's like, is this an el Roy adaptation? 2321 02:06:14.399 --> 02:06:16.600 Because she's thinking of the scene with Bud white in 2322 02:06:16.640 --> 02:06:19.800 the Police department where he's doing that same thing with 2323 02:06:19.840 --> 02:06:22.880 the black suspect, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, actually this 2324 02:06:23.079 --> 02:06:26.520 is so and that it's funny. In the book, I 2325 02:06:26.520 --> 02:06:29.600 think Whitey says, you know, oh you had a blank 2326 02:06:29.640 --> 02:06:33.760 in there, right, and it's like, yeah, no, Lloyd Hopkins 2327 02:06:33.800 --> 02:06:37.960 does not play Russian Roulette with blankstike you very much. 2328 02:06:39.319 --> 02:06:44.279 And instead of Hopkins shooting him, he basically says like, 2329 02:06:44.319 --> 02:06:47.119 your career's over, leaves the house, and then can hear 2330 02:06:47.159 --> 02:06:50.760 a shot from inside the house, which is amazing restraint 2331 02:06:51.000 --> 02:06:52.319 for an Elroy passage. 2332 02:06:53.520 --> 02:06:56.840 You reminded me of the first scene of this movie, 2333 02:06:56.880 --> 02:06:59.960 which plays out over opening credits, the you know, completely 2334 02:07:00.359 --> 02:07:03.760 like we see nothing. It's just black black screen. You 2335 02:07:03.800 --> 02:07:06.920 see the titles and names and things, and it's a 2336 02:07:06.960 --> 02:07:11.800 black guy calling an operator on a payphone to report 2337 02:07:11.960 --> 02:07:16.399 the murder. And it's a recording like thank you for calling, 2338 02:07:16.520 --> 02:07:18.680 and the guy keeps talking to it like it's a person. 2339 02:07:18.760 --> 02:07:23.560 Oh you're welcome. It's so insulting the way that that 2340 02:07:23.880 --> 02:07:26.399 the way that they play that. But also it's been 2341 02:07:26.399 --> 02:07:29.159 a while since I have even seen a payphone. But 2342 02:07:29.239 --> 02:07:32.279 I didn't think you needed quarters to call the operator. 2343 02:07:33.079 --> 02:07:35.319 I don't think you do or to call nine to 2344 02:07:35.359 --> 02:07:35.960 one one. 2345 02:07:36.079 --> 02:07:39.920 But he did. That's another thing entirely, and I don't. 2346 02:07:40.039 --> 02:07:42.479 I mean, that's not in the book, so that's purely 2347 02:07:42.520 --> 02:07:43.359 a Harris invention. 2348 02:07:44.279 --> 02:07:46.399 It's more of a tweaker that calls them. 2349 02:07:46.720 --> 02:07:48.600 I don't like it. I don't like it at all. 2350 02:07:49.039 --> 02:07:51.760 I also don't like how many scenes Harris puts in 2351 02:07:51.800 --> 02:07:55.439 a Woods eating in this, because he's eating a lot, 2352 02:07:56.319 --> 02:07:59.680 and one of them in particular, the sound is like 2353 02:08:00.439 --> 02:08:04.680 upped and you get a lot of mouth noise. That's 2354 02:08:05.399 --> 02:08:06.560 just disgusting. 2355 02:08:07.359 --> 02:08:08.800 Poor dietary choices too. 2356 02:08:09.359 --> 02:08:11.399 He eats more than Leslie and Warren smokes. 2357 02:08:12.239 --> 02:08:14.680 Oh boy, that's it a lot. 2358 02:08:14.920 --> 02:08:17.119 I mean, James Woods does a lot of phone acting 2359 02:08:17.239 --> 02:08:19.960 in this. You know, where he's talking on the phone 2360 02:08:20.000 --> 02:08:22.520 when no one else is on the other line. You know, 2361 02:08:22.560 --> 02:08:24.720 it's one of those things I would not have noticed before. 2362 02:08:25.359 --> 02:08:29.159 I don't think he gives long enough pauses for you know, 2363 02:08:29.199 --> 02:08:31.359 the other end to say what that he should have said. 2364 02:08:31.960 --> 02:08:34.520 But he's still pretty convincing at it. He does a 2365 02:08:34.520 --> 02:08:38.880 fairly good job. But there are times though in this 2366 02:08:38.920 --> 02:08:41.560 where he is so hammy. I think it comes through 2367 02:08:41.600 --> 02:08:45.199 in particular on the one scene with his wife where 2368 02:08:45.199 --> 02:08:48.720 they're arguing and he gives that speech that you read, Mike, 2369 02:08:49.279 --> 02:08:52.039 he kind of overdoes it, I think in that scene. 2370 02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:55.079 But for the most part, I think like this is 2371 02:08:55.159 --> 02:08:59.760 probably my favorite James Wood performance. James Woods. 2372 02:09:00.199 --> 02:09:01.600 That's interesting. That's interesting. 2373 02:09:02.039 --> 02:09:04.800 It's definitely the one I've seen the most. 2374 02:09:05.039 --> 02:09:08.119 Watching Woods in this made me want to revisit Salvador, 2375 02:09:09.119 --> 02:09:11.720 which is possibly, I think probably my favorite. 2376 02:09:12.439 --> 02:09:14.520 Well, and it made me one like I've never seen 2377 02:09:14.520 --> 02:09:17.439 the onion field speak and also to speak of another 2378 02:09:17.920 --> 02:09:19.760 La Creme writer, Joseph Wambaugh. 2379 02:09:19.920 --> 02:09:20.600 Yeah, that's right. 2380 02:09:20.720 --> 02:09:25.560 Sorry, I always think of that big serial killer from Mindhunter, 2381 02:09:25.960 --> 02:09:26.520 Ed Kemper. 2382 02:09:26.880 --> 02:09:27.319 Do you know. 2383 02:09:29.760 --> 02:09:31.840 Joseph Wambaugh, Please three you go to. 2384 02:09:31.840 --> 02:09:34.840 Watch that, huge fan. I got a lot of my 2385 02:09:35.000 --> 02:09:36.680 insights right there. 2386 02:09:36.960 --> 02:09:39.840 Really, I would not allow myself to walk into a 2387 02:09:39.920 --> 02:09:42.760 trap because I knew exactly how their minds work from 2388 02:09:42.800 --> 02:09:43.760 watching Wombaugh. 2389 02:09:44.279 --> 02:09:48.279 I forgot about that. He even mentions that seen that 2390 02:09:48.680 --> 02:09:52.199 twice that series twice, and I totally forgot about that. 2391 02:09:52.720 --> 02:09:55.000 I just love the end that whole season with the 2392 02:09:55.399 --> 02:09:59.800 BTK killer. That's so good. But we'll get another season 2393 02:10:00.079 --> 02:10:03.840 of whatever you know anytime it's like, oh please. 2394 02:10:04.399 --> 02:10:06.119 Oh the last thing. And I wanted to ask you 2395 02:10:06.159 --> 02:10:11.199 guys this when James Woods and his daughter the exchange 2396 02:10:11.239 --> 02:10:14.119 they have and they do give me five on the side. 2397 02:10:14.239 --> 02:10:16.800 And I've never heard this part of it. Cut the pickle, 2398 02:10:16.880 --> 02:10:19.920 you owe me a nickel? Have you ever heard that 2399 02:10:20.039 --> 02:10:23.239 before other than the movie? I did never. 2400 02:10:23.640 --> 02:10:26.520 No, that's not a common sign in Australia. 2401 02:10:27.319 --> 02:10:29.520 No, I can't say I've ever heard of that. All right, 2402 02:10:29.600 --> 02:10:31.840 let's go ahead and take another break and play a 2403 02:10:31.920 --> 02:10:35.159 preview for next week's show right after these brief messages. 2404 02:10:36.840 --> 02:10:38.760 For pays for. 2405 02:10:38.800 --> 02:10:42.479 The front of your life, as Republic Pictures brings you 2406 02:10:42.680 --> 02:10:46.640 Stephen King's most start The Nightmare The Langoliers. 2407 02:10:46.760 --> 02:10:50.479 Now what a new low price? Don't you understand? 2408 02:10:51.199 --> 02:10:54.159 Stephen King's pillots have drawn over the three hundred and 2409 02:10:54.159 --> 02:10:58.000 fifty million in box office receipts, and his books have 2410 02:10:58.159 --> 02:11:01.600 sold over one hundred and fifty million in poppies worldwide. 2411 02:11:02.279 --> 02:11:07.920 The Lango Lads is intriguing, horrified and pure kid with 2412 02:11:08.119 --> 02:11:10.319 plenty of scarifying King's style. 2413 02:11:10.479 --> 02:11:14.399 Fuck Lango Leaders are coming, They're coming for. 2414 02:11:14.560 --> 02:11:19.640 You, Stephen Kings. 2415 02:11:19.880 --> 02:11:25.319 The Langoliers now only nineteen ninety eight for each double cassette. 2416 02:11:25.359 --> 02:11:28.399 That's right, We'll be back next week with the Lengo Leaders. 2417 02:11:28.720 --> 02:11:30.760 Till then, I want to thank my co host Andrew 2418 02:11:30.840 --> 02:11:33.640 and Rod. So, Andrew, what is the latest with you, sir? 2419 02:11:34.359 --> 02:11:36.199 I have a project I'm working on at the moment, 2420 02:11:36.239 --> 02:11:39.359 another book for PM Press, but I probably shouldn't say 2421 02:11:39.359 --> 02:11:42.399 anything about it just yet, kind of follow on from 2422 02:11:42.479 --> 02:11:45.199 Revolution in thirty five millimeters but different. 2423 02:11:45.960 --> 02:11:48.680 Yeah, whatever you write, I'll buy, and so just keep writing. 2424 02:11:49.119 --> 02:11:51.399 I appreciate I appreciate it, and right. 2425 02:11:51.279 --> 02:11:52.000 How about yourself? 2426 02:11:52.840 --> 02:11:59.520 Still flick Attack dot com with film reviews, The Flick 2427 02:11:59.560 --> 02:12:04.199 Attack movie Arsenal Book one still available price to sell 2428 02:12:04.359 --> 02:12:08.359 at Amazon dot com and soon Flick a Tech Movie 2429 02:12:08.439 --> 02:12:12.439 Arsenal Book two will be out. I'm sure I was 2430 02:12:12.479 --> 02:12:15.000 hoping to have it by Christmas, but it's probably going 2431 02:12:15.039 --> 02:12:17.880 to be more like Spring of twenty twenty six. 2432 02:12:18.239 --> 02:12:20.800 This will come out the day before Thanksgiving because there's 2433 02:12:20.840 --> 02:12:23.600 nothing better to talk about the day before Thanksgiving. 2434 02:12:24.520 --> 02:12:27.319 So on Thanksgiving, on Black Friday, you should go to 2435 02:12:27.359 --> 02:12:30.439 Amazon dot com and you could buy book one and 2436 02:12:30.479 --> 02:12:34.079 it will still be under twenty dollars for a huge 2437 02:12:34.079 --> 02:12:38.920 phone book size compinium of reviews and articles, which Mike 2438 02:12:39.000 --> 02:12:40.800 White graciously blurbed. 2439 02:12:41.399 --> 02:12:44.239 You're doing the lord's work, Rod, So I appreciate everything, 2440 02:12:44.960 --> 02:12:46.920 so were you well. Thank you so much guys for 2441 02:12:46.960 --> 02:12:49.199 being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. You 2442 02:12:49.239 --> 02:12:51.439 want to support physical media and get great movies in 2443 02:12:51.479 --> 02:12:53.520 the mail, head over to scarecrow dot com and try 2444 02:12:53.520 --> 02:12:56.960 Scarecrow Videos incredible rent by mail service, the largest publicly 2445 02:12:57.000 --> 02:13:00.920 accessible collection in the world. You'll find film. They're entirely 2446 02:13:01.000 --> 02:13:04.119 unavailable elsewhere. Get what you want, when you want it, 2447 02:13:04.359 --> 02:13:06.760 without the scrolling. If you want to hear more of 2448 02:13:06.760 --> 02:13:08.319 me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the 2449 02:13:08.319 --> 02:13:10.720 other shows that I work on. They are all available 2450 02:13:10.840 --> 02:13:14.800 at Waitingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our Patreon community. 2451 02:13:14.880 --> 02:13:17.199 If you want to join the community, visit patreon dot 2452 02:13:17.199 --> 02:13:20.239 com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get helps the 2453 02:13:20.279 --> 02:13:22.960 Projection Booth take over this rotten, stinking world. 2454 02:13:30.239 --> 02:13:31.720 Don't you're. 2455 02:13:35.319 --> 02:13:49.680 Anymore Tuck shoot by nime. 2456 02:13:50.640 --> 02:13:53.079 B this super. 2457 02:13:55.159 --> 02:14:00.800 Easca, He's cloud. 2458 02:14:02.920 --> 02:14:10.840 I've gotta stand until you know Roman crowl don't man, 2459 02:14:10.960 --> 02:14:14.239 he knows you don't lie, and the lives I'm passing by. 2460 02:14:14.760 --> 02:14:27.720 He's no man at all, don't want you anymore, don't cook? 2461 02:14:30.640 --> 02:14:32.720 Is that for shure. 2462 02:14:34.520 --> 02:14:39.840 I got Each time I live this. 2463 02:14:42.960 --> 02:14:52.359 He that scan this cloud when you see me shutter. 2464 02:14:54.359 --> 02:14:58.399 And you knew that it soon s youth, don't know 2465 02:14:58.560 --> 02:14:59.119 what you think. 2466 02:14:59.159 --> 02:15:00.279 It's kind of s ahead. 2467 02:15:00.359 --> 02:15:04.359 That's your treat well, nor don't you leave him king. 2468 02:15:06.159 --> 02:15:07.560 Don't want your. 2469 02:15:11.159 --> 02:15:15.720 Anymove, don't want jokey. 2470 02:15:17.760 --> 02:15:20.359 This is that's for sal. 2471 02:15:22.279 --> 02:15:24.359 I die each time. 2472 02:15:26.319 --> 02:15:28.720 I hear this seven. 2473 02:15:30.800 --> 02:15:34.239 He comes. 2474 02:15:34.439 --> 02:15:39.239 That's cattle clown, that's cat. 2475 02:15:39.640 --> 02:15:43.760 This clown, that's the