1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,879 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. This is the show where we 2 00:00:02,919 --> 00:00:06,000 try to give you that you know, that deep dive 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,160 you really need on some of the most complex, surprising, 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,599 and well often pretty terrifying subjects. 5 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:16,199 Speaker 2: We basically take a whole stack of sources, research articles, 6 00:00:16,199 --> 00:00:17,199 and we distill it all. 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Down, we pull out the critical nuggets. The goal is 8 00:00:19,359 --> 00:00:21,920 that by the end of this you are instantly and 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,440 thoroughly informed. 10 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: And today we are. We're peering beneath the surface of 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,640 the world. Quite literally, we're contrasting that serene image we 12 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:31,320 all have in. 13 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: Our minds, the postcard image. 14 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: Exactly, the postcard of nature, of quiet wilderness, with the 15 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,479 truly terrifying ancient realities that are stirring right beneath our feet, 16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,200 and as we'll see some that are melting out from 17 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:44,000 above our heads. 18 00:00:44,119 --> 00:00:46,039 Speaker 1: That's such a good way to put it. Our subject 19 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:49,200 matter today really forces you to look beyond that surface 20 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,320 level of environmental beauty. You have to recognize the sheer, 21 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,640 indifferent power of these geological and biological forces. 22 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,439 Speaker 2: Forces that operate on time scales that are just they're 23 00:01:01,479 --> 00:01:04,280 almost impossible for us to comprehend completely. 24 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: And we're starting with an incredibly idyllic picture Yellowstone National Park. 25 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,719 You picture Old Faithful, the bison roaming around the beautiful 26 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:16,840 caldera rim just this sense of peace. But the sources 27 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,959 we've been digging into, and specifically we're drawing heavily from 28 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,519 the History Channel's fantastic YouTube series it's called The Dangerous 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,079 Truth Buried under Yellowstone. It just immediately throws that sense 30 00:01:28,079 --> 00:01:30,280 of peace into profound question. 31 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: Because beneath that stunning landscape, something truly massive is stirring, 32 00:01:34,879 --> 00:01:39,000 and due to modern shifts, that geological clock it's arguably 33 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:39,680 speeding up. 34 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: So what's our mission today? 35 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: Our mission is to really understand the scope and the 36 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,439 implications of two massive existential threats, threats that have laine 37 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,040 dormant for in some cases millennia, but are now being 38 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,519 reawakened by modern changes. 39 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: And that's the key, right, the reawakening. 40 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,439 Speaker 2: It is chiefly driven by environmental shifts and climate change. 41 00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:00,280 So we have one gigantic geological threat hidden under the 42 00:02:00,319 --> 00:02:04,239 American West and one well one insidious biological threat lock 43 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:05,719 deep within the Siberian tundra. 44 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: We're uncovering ancient secrets that frankly, we probably hoped would 45 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,199 stay buried and we're using cutting edge science to shine 46 00:02:13,199 --> 00:02:17,159 a light on these low probability of but incredibly high 47 00:02:17,159 --> 00:02:17,919 impact events. 48 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 3: High impact is putting it mildly right. 49 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:23,879 Speaker 1: So we have two distinct, but as you'll see, thematically 50 00:02:23,879 --> 00:02:27,400 connected threads to pull on. The very heat that is 51 00:02:27,439 --> 00:02:31,240 subtly changing the ground dynamics in Yellowstone is you could 52 00:02:31,319 --> 00:02:34,560 argue the same global warming mechanism that is melting the 53 00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:35,560 ice in Siberia. 54 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,879 Speaker 3: It's two sides of the same coin exactly. 55 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: So for the first major part of our deep dive, 56 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,759 we'll detail the completely accidental discovery of one of the 57 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,680 world's largest volcanic threats hiding in plain sight. 58 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: And then we pivot. 59 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: We go to the Arctic where extreme heat is melting 60 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,400 the permafrost and releasing this alarming, highly fatal ancient pathogen. 61 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,879 And it's one that poses a unique and totally unpredictable 62 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,439 risk to modern humanity. 63 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,719 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get into it. Let's start with this 64 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:04,080 this monumental hidden danger. And the story begins in the 65 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,960 mid nineteen sixties, right. 66 00:03:06,039 --> 00:03:10,439 Speaker 2: And it starts with what seemed like a purely technological, 67 00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:13,479 almost logistical exercise. It had nothing to do with discovering 68 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,800 a global castrophe engine. It's just an amazing story of 69 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,360 unintended consequences. 70 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,719 Speaker 1: The starting point for all this geological terror is nineteen 71 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,400 sixty five, and we have to remember the context. This 72 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:27,199 was the absolute height of the Cold War, the peak 73 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:27,599 of the space. 74 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, everything was about looking up, looking. 75 00:03:29,439 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: Out exactly, and NASA kicks off this mission with a 76 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,680 really critical, very specific goal. They needed to accurately map 77 00:03:38,719 --> 00:03:41,639 the surface of the Earth from space. They were using 78 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,479 these new, unbelievably state of the art satellite cameras. They 79 00:03:45,479 --> 00:03:48,479 were basically inventing orbital mapping as they went. 80 00:03:48,639 --> 00:03:51,199 Speaker 2: And this is where you know the scientific precision really matters. 81 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,599 To make sure those new satellite images were actually accurate. 82 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,759 To calibrate them, basically, NASA needed a meticulous control set 83 00:03:57,879 --> 00:04:01,240 of pictures, pictures taken on the ground. It's exactly like 84 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,879 verifying a ruler. You need to know your measurements are correct. 85 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:11,039 They needed specific, easily identifiable, fixed and geographically unique features 86 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,199 to cross reference with what the satellite was seeing from 87 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:15,800 hundreds of miles. 88 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: Up in orbit. 89 00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: So they're looking around for the perfect spot, this perfect 90 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,199 natural laboratory for their new cameras, and their choice for 91 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,560 this baseline map was Yellowstone National Park. 92 00:04:26,079 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: And that choice was highly deliberate. It was because of 93 00:04:29,319 --> 00:04:31,879 the park's quote ideal geology. 94 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,879 Speaker 1: What does that even mean, ideal geology for taking pictures. 95 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,079 Speaker 2: Well, it's chalk full of geysers and natural pools and 96 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,199 these features, these hydrothermal systems, they serve as excellent, very 97 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,639 distinct testing features for camera accuracy. 98 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: So it's like a built in test pattern on the ground. 99 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 3: That's a perfect way to put it. 100 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,639 Speaker 2: To get a little more specific, these hydrothermal features are 101 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:54,639 so valuable because they have unique and crucially relatively fixed 102 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,439 spectral signatures. 103 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,959 Speaker 1: Meaning they look unique from the sky. 104 00:04:58,199 --> 00:05:01,399 Speaker 2: Exactly, the mineral content in the water, the heat they 105 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,519 give off, the steam, even the specific colors of the 106 00:05:04,519 --> 00:05:08,000 microbial maps that grow around the pools. All of that 107 00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:11,800 offers these excellent fixed points of reference. It gives you 108 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,399 a high contrast, repeatable pattern that's just perfect for calibrating 109 00:05:16,519 --> 00:05:19,920 orbital equipment that's designed to spot subtle differences in the ground. 110 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,199 Speaker 1: Okay, so NASA puts a man named Bob Christiansen in 111 00:05:24,319 --> 00:05:26,800 charge of making this baseline map. He's the guy on 112 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,680 the ground setting up the fixed reference points. 113 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: Right, and here's the lucky break. Because Christensen just happened 114 00:05:33,319 --> 00:05:36,920 to be an established professional geologist, the National Park Service 115 00:05:36,959 --> 00:05:38,000 saw an opportunity. 116 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: They piggybacked on the mission. 117 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: They absolutely did. 118 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: They said, hey, while you're out there making this topographical 119 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,680 map for NASA, could you also collect some rock samples 120 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,199 for us. They wanted them for a carbon dating and 121 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,439 a comprehensive mineral analysis. It was just to add to 122 00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:53,759 the park's existing geological. 123 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,439 Speaker 1: Record, just a little side project. 124 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,959 Speaker 2: It was a secondary job that became the primary world 125 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:58,959 changing revelation. 126 00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: So this this seemingly minor side task, just collecting a 127 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,079 few hundred rocks, That's where the whole mystery begins. 128 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 3: That's it. 129 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: And the source material really emphasizes how Christiansen had to 130 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,240 hike all over the park, I mean huge swabs of it. 131 00:06:13,399 --> 00:06:15,399 He was taking samples not just from the surface, but 132 00:06:15,439 --> 00:06:18,800 also from cliffs, from geothermal vents everywhere. 133 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,319 Speaker 1: And these samples get sent back to the lab, they 134 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:25,160 get processed, and they come back with a profoundly strange story. 135 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: To tell a very strange story. 136 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: So what did the mineral analysis in the carbon dating 137 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:30,480 actually reveal? 138 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: They revealed that most of the rock composition in Yellowstone. 139 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,399 We're talking the bedrock, the massive layers of tough which 140 00:06:37,399 --> 00:06:41,079 is basically volcanic ash, is made up of something called rhyolite, And. 141 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: For anyone who's into geology, rhyolite is a massive red flag. 142 00:06:44,879 --> 00:06:49,439 It's a key indicator of huge explosive volcanic activity. It is. 143 00:06:49,519 --> 00:06:51,959 Speaker 2: And what's so fascinating here is that rhyolite because it's 144 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,399 so silica rich and viscous, like thick, sticky magma. It 145 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,360 only forms when you have these high pressure magma flows 146 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:01,759 or massive of explosive volcanic events. 147 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: So we are not talking about the slow Uzi Hawaiian style. 148 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:07,759 Speaker 3: Lava flows, No, not at all. This is the complete opposite. 149 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: We are talking about highly pressurized, volatile, catastrophic eruptions. 150 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: The chemistry of rhylite is the key. That high silica. 151 00:07:17,519 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: Content it traps enormous amounts of gas, and that trapped 152 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,680 gas is the engine for the blast. 153 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so the rocks are screaming massive explosion. But here's 154 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,920 the contradiction. The thing that was apparently driving Christians and 155 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,360 crazy as he was looking at this data, the geology 156 00:07:35,439 --> 00:07:38,279 clearly showed that this entire landscape was a result of 157 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:43,199 several massive, catastrophic eruptions over the last two million years. Yet, 158 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,720 as everyone knew at the time, there are no active 159 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,920 volcanoes in Yellowstone right, No cones, no towering cones, no 160 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,439 classic Mount Fuji or Mount Rainier strata volcano shapes. So 161 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,839 you have all this evidence of unimaginably huge explosions everywhere, 162 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,759 but the physical volcano, the actual mountain, was nowhere to 163 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:02,120 be seen, at least not in the way anyone understood 164 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,000 a volcano to look. 165 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: So Christiansen's initial assessment was actually highly logical. I mean, 166 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,519 given the hundreds of unique geological features scattered across this 167 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,079 massive region, from the geysers in the west to the 168 00:08:12,079 --> 00:08:14,120 hot springs in the east, he had to connect the 169 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,519 dots somehow, right, and he initially speculated that all these 170 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,079 features were the product of an ancient volcano chain that 171 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,560 had long since gone dormant. It's similar to the volcanic 172 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,319 fields you see along the Cascade Range, but maybe just 173 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,000 older and more eroded, which makes perfect sense. 174 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,879 Speaker 1: Multiple distinct cones, multiple distinct eruptions over millions of years, 175 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,480 scattered localized evidence. It fits what he was seeing on 176 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:41,000 the ground. 177 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: It's the only theory that fit the ground level data. 178 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,279 Speaker 1: And you have to remember he's a geologist on the 179 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:48,159 ground making sense of ground samples. He's looking at the debris, 180 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:50,639 at the mess it made, not the hole it came from. 181 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: That's the key. 182 00:08:51,879 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: The sheer vastness of the true structure made it literally 183 00:08:55,879 --> 00:08:58,399 invisible from his vantage point. I mean, you can't see 184 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:00,279 the true shape of a mountain range when you're standing 185 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,039 in the middle of it. Little in the shape of 186 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,720 something that's defined by its negative space, its absence precisely. 187 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:08,720 And this brings us to the moment of shock, the 188 00:09:08,759 --> 00:09:12,480 big Aha moment in nineteen seventy two. This was a 189 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:15,120 really pivotal point in geological. 190 00:09:14,519 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: History because NASA's long term satellite mapping project, but when 191 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,600 he was helping with, finally yielded its final images, and 192 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,960 crucially this included infrared pictures of the entire Yellowstone region. 193 00:09:27,759 --> 00:09:30,799 Speaker 2: And Christensen, when he's looking at this assembled satellite mosaic, 194 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,759 he was just stunned. The infrared pictures provided this massive 195 00:09:35,799 --> 00:09:40,039 synoptic perspective that no geologists could ever achieve. 196 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: From the ground. You can see the whole forest, not 197 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:42,399 just the. 198 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: Trees exactly, especially when the features are covered by forests 199 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,120 or hidden by topography, and these imagies, they just completely 200 00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:51,519 refuted his ancient. 201 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,879 Speaker 1: Chain theory, just blew it out of the water instantly. 202 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,919 Speaker 2: The images revealed the true scope of the area by 203 00:09:56,919 --> 00:10:00,000 showing the pattern of the heat signatures and the mineral deposits, 204 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,000 and that pattern defined an enormous circular shape, a shape 205 00:10:04,039 --> 00:10:07,159 far larger than any single volcano anyone had ever conceived of. 206 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,639 Speaker 1: So all those separate features they all connected. 207 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 2: The images showed that the unique geological features, all those 208 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,639 separate pools, geysers, and lava flows were not formed by 209 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,480 a chain of distinct, separate volcanoes. Instead, they were all 210 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,679 part of a single colossal subterranean structure that was defined 211 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,720 by a collapse, a massive caldera. 212 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 3: Wow, it was the scar of the eruption. 213 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,399 Speaker 1: And the sources are really clear on the context of 214 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,279 this finding. This wasn't just a big collapse. It indicated 215 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,120 a single supervolcano. 216 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: And that term supervolcano gets thrown around, but the source 217 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:43,159 material makes a critical point about scale that you really 218 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:47,159 need to grasp. Of the over one thousand known volcanoes 219 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,799 on Earth, only about twenty are classified as supervolcanoes. 220 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: And that's defined by an eruption magnitude of eight on 221 00:10:53,639 --> 00:10:56,000 the Volcanic Exclusivity Index or VII. 222 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: Right, a VEI eight the highest possible score, and Yellowstone. 223 00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 3: The data showed it was one of the biggest ever found. 224 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: And this old discovery was purely accidental. It was a 225 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,440 magnificent side effect of just trying to check camera accuracy 226 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,440 for the space race. 227 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,159 Speaker 2: It's a profound example of how technology, when you deploy 228 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,879 it for one purpose, can reveal these foundational secrets about 229 00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:21,159 our planet that were hidden simply because of their sheer 230 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,600 unimatchable size. 231 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: When the thing you're studying is continental and scale, you 232 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,279 need a continental vantage point to even see it. 233 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:29,279 Speaker 3: That's it. 234 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: It was the negative space, the collapsed roof of this 235 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,879 gigantic magma chamber that finally defined the danger. 236 00:11:36,039 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: Okay, so now we know it's there, Let's talk about 237 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,360 the scale, because that's where this gets truly terrifying. To 238 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,440 really grasp it, we have to look back at the 239 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,879 timeline established by Christiansen's initial rock dating. 240 00:11:47,159 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: Right, Geologists now recognize three immense calleddera forming eruptions in 241 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:55,639 Yellowstone's history, and the biggest known eruption, the one that 242 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,440 really shaped the landscape as we know. It is known 243 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,919 as the Huckleberry Ridge eruption, and it took place about 244 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,080 two million years ago. 245 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,159 Speaker 1: And that event, it didn't just rewrite the geology of 246 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,120 North America. The data shows it fundamentally changed the global climate. 247 00:12:08,159 --> 00:12:08,919 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely. 248 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,879 Speaker 2: It launched as much as six hundred cubic miles of 249 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:14,559 red hot lava, ash and rocks into the air. 250 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,399 Speaker 3: Six hundred cubic miles. 251 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: I can't even picture what that means. Six hundred cubic miles. 252 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: It's almost impossible to picture. 253 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: But we can see the evidence. The remnants of this event, 254 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,960 what's called the Huckleberry Ridge tough can be found hundreds 255 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,840 of miles away. That just shows you the extent of 256 00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:33,000 the sprint. It's a layer of ash that covers a 257 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,960 huge portion of the United States. 258 00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:38,519 Speaker 1: Okay, we need a comparison, something that really sticks with 259 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,480 you and conveys the sheer terror of this thing. We're 260 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:44,399 all familiar with a Mount Saint Helen's eruption in nineteen. 261 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: Eighty, a huge catastrophic event in its own right, a 262 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,679 VEI five right. 263 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: It devastated a huge section of Washington State, killed dozens 264 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:56,759 of people that historic explosion which generated so much ash 265 00:12:56,879 --> 00:13:00,080 it changed the weather temporarily. Yeah, the source material tells 266 00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:04,000 the Yellowstone Huckleberry explosion was a terrifying VII eight event, 267 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,639 and volumetrically it was twenty five hundred times bigger. 268 00:13:08,159 --> 00:13:11,039 Speaker 2: The difference in scale is paralyzing, it really is. Saint 269 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Helens was a regional disaster. Yellowstone is a continental, even 270 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:15,240 planetary event. 271 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:16,759 Speaker 1: Explain that what's the difference. 272 00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: Well, the ash from Saint Helens disrupted air travel and 273 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:23,360 farming for a few weeks, mostly across the Pacific Northwest. 274 00:13:23,759 --> 00:13:27,480 An eruption twenty five hundred times larger is not a 275 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,120 regional inconvenience. It is a global inflection. 276 00:13:30,759 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: Point, a civilization level event. 277 00:13:32,799 --> 00:13:35,919 Speaker 2: Without a doubt, the sheer volume of material launched into 278 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,600 the atmosphere would block sunlight across an entire hemisphere, and 279 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:42,399 the immediate ash fall would render huge parts of the 280 00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:46,120 American West completely uninhabitable. We are talking about ash layers 281 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,440 that could be dozens of feet deep, extending across several states. 282 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,879 Speaker 1: Okay, but the critical question, the one everyone's thinking is, 283 00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:56,480 does this immense history mean it's over? Can we just 284 00:13:57,159 --> 00:13:59,679 rely on the idea that this is ancient history and 285 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:00,759 not a current threat. 286 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, and that's the scary part. Yellowstone's fury 287 00:14:04,519 --> 00:14:07,559 may not be finished. While the supervolcano has been dormant 288 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,480 for about half a million years, the last major event, 289 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,440 the Lava Creek eruption, was around six hundred and thirty 290 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:14,440 thousand years ago. 291 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 3: The danger has not passed. 292 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,039 Speaker 1: It's not extinct, not even close. 293 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,559 Speaker 2: Geological data, modern monitoring it all shows that the lava 294 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,600 chambers still exist and that lava still flows within this 295 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:28,840 massive system right underneath Yellowstone National Park. Dormancy does not 296 00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:32,320 mean extinct. It means it's resting, and crucially, it is 297 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,679 active right now beneath the surface. 298 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: So how do we know it's active. What are the signs? 299 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 3: Well, the most obvious sign is the park itself. 300 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: The entire massive hydrothermal system, with all its geysers and 301 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:47,120 hot springs and mud pots. All of that requires an 302 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:48,759 enormous heat source to function. 303 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: Old Faithful needs fuel, It. 304 00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: Needs a gigantic furnace. And this is not just leftover 305 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,200 residual heat from an old eruption. This is continuous, high 306 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,840 intensity magma activity happening very close. 307 00:14:59,639 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 3: To the earth crust. 308 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:03,559 Speaker 1: But the resting phase might be ending. And this is 309 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:06,240 where it gets really concerning. We received a major alarm 310 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,320 bell in twenty twenty two that prompted some very serious 311 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,399 scientific discussion. 312 00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:13,759 Speaker 2: This is where we shift from historical fact to modern, 313 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,000 urgent scientific findings that should frankly alarm you. A pivotal 314 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,279 study was published in the journal Science in twenty twenty 315 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:24,039 two and it provided some extremely detailed and alarming data. 316 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,559 Speaker 1: And this wasn't just speculation. This was research using advanced 317 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,799 seismic tomography and networks of GPS monitors all across. 318 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: The park, exactly the most advanced monitoring technology we have. 319 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,919 Speaker 1: So what did this detailed modern monitoring reveal. 320 00:15:40,279 --> 00:15:42,679 Speaker 2: It showed that the lava chambers under the park are 321 00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:46,879 rapidly filling, and crucially that the resurgent dome, which is 322 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:49,679 an area of the caldera floor that literally rises and 323 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:54,840 falls with magma pressure, is experiencing measurable unusual uplift. 324 00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:56,759 Speaker 1: The ground is breathing, it's bulging. 325 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 2: They observed vertical displacement data from the GPS station showing 326 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,360 that the ground is subtly but significantly rising in specific 327 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,799 zones and this indicates accelerated magma migration and pressurization deep 328 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:12,360 below the surface, specifically in the shallow magma reservoir. 329 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: Okay, let's play skeptic here for a minute. Yellowstone is 330 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,879 a long term geological cycle, right, We're talking half million 331 00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:22,240 year intervals. So is a filling lava chamber just correlation? 332 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:25,200 Is it normal background noise that we're sensationalizing because we 333 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,240 have better tools to see it. 334 00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:28,679 Speaker 2: Now, that is a fair and a critical question, and 335 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,840 we absolutely must avoid sensationalizing normal geological processes. But the 336 00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:37,360 data points to unusual stress, the rate of uplift, the 337 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:40,720 specific locations, it's not what you call baseline. And this 338 00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:45,200 uplift is compounded by the persistent and intense seismic activity 339 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,519 that the park experiences. 340 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: Naturally, it experiences a lot a ton. 341 00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:52,159 Speaker 2: Yellowstone has over three thousand earthquakes a year. Now, most 342 00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:54,759 are tiny, you'd never feel them, but that is a 343 00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:58,600 massive amount of continuous stress and strain on the subterranean structure. 344 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,559 It suggests that the crust, the lid on top of 345 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,720 this pressurized magma, is under continuous measurable duress. 346 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: So we connect all these dots. We have a super 347 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,319 volcano known for cataclysmic past events, we have a twenty 348 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,440 twenty two finding of rapidly filling magma chambers and measurable 349 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,759 grounds uplift, and we have intense continuous seismic activity. 350 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: Put it all together and it leads some researchers to 351 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,519 speculate with very serious concern that the supervolcano may be preparing. 352 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:27,279 Speaker 3: To erupt once again. 353 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: The signs are there. 354 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,039 Speaker 2: The signs of increasing geological stress observed through our best 355 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:37,119 technology are undeniable. Even if the exact timing remains completely unknown. 356 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,319 It could be tomorrow, it could be ten thousand years 357 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:39,839 from now, We. 358 00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:42,759 Speaker 1: Just don't know. So, Okay, what does this all mean 359 00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:46,279 for us? Let's get to this. So what the catastrophic outcome. 360 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,720 If the next eruption is similar to the last massive one, 361 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:56,599 the consequences go beyond regional, They become continental, maybe even global, and. 362 00:17:56,559 --> 00:17:59,319 Speaker 2: They would absolutely trigger massive climate disruption. 363 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,759 Speaker 1: The danger isn't just the immedia lava or the pyroclastic flow. 364 00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:05,920 I mean, that would obviously devastate the Northern Rockies, no question. 365 00:18:05,759 --> 00:18:06,599 Speaker 3: It would be gone. 366 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: But the real global danger is the atmospheric disruption. It's 367 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,599 the immense volume of sulfur dioxide and fine ash that 368 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,319 gets thrown into the stratosphere, and it. 369 00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 2: Would spew enough debris and sulfur aerosols into the sky 370 00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:22,559 to essentially block out the sun not just in the 371 00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,920 Western United States, but potentially across the entire northern hemisphere 372 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:26,599 for how long? 373 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:27,319 Speaker 3: For decades? 374 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: Decades? Think about that. Think about the impact on everything 375 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,759 from agriculture, to solar power to I don't know, mental health. 376 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,759 Speaker 2: This scenario, it's often referred to as a volcanic winter, 377 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,359 and it is not science fiction. The sulfur aerosols would 378 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:45,440 form these highly reflective clouds, and global temperatures would drop significantly. 379 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: And if you lose consistent sunlight and you get a 380 00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:52,039 volcanic winter in the world's most productive agricultural zones, even 381 00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:53,359 for just a few years. 382 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,759 Speaker 2: It leads directly to widespread crop failure, global famine, and 383 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,759 total economic collapse, simply because the food supply chains would 384 00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:02,880 completely break down. 385 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: This raises the terrifying question, how do you even prepare 386 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,319 for an event of that magnitude. 387 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: The honest answer is you don't not really. Short of 388 00:19:12,079 --> 00:19:16,279 continental relocation or building massive enclosed food production facilities on 389 00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:18,039 a scale we can't imagine, you can't. 390 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,319 Speaker 1: Prepare so the only solace is the geological timescale. 391 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 2: It is, as one expert in the source material concludes 392 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,599 this segment, we can only hope for another half million 393 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,519 at least. It's just a sobering reflectant on the sheer 394 00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:32,039 power of the forces we live on top of and 395 00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:36,079 the incredible vulnerability of our modern, interconnected society to a 396 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,960 fundamental planetary change. 397 00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: Wow, we went from NASA mapping techniques to discussing global 398 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,519 societal breakdown in what ten minutes. 399 00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:47,279 Speaker 2: It's a testament to the magnitude of what is quietly 400 00:19:47,319 --> 00:19:48,519 waiting beneath the Yellowstone. 401 00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: Okay, now, let's transition, because the pressure building under Yellowstone 402 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,039 is terrifying, but it might pale in comparison to the insidious, 403 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,759 invisible threat that's being unleashed by the same forces of 404 00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:03,319 heat and climate change. But in the far. 405 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 2: North, a completely different kind of threat. 406 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,599 Speaker 1: Right. Not all existential threats erupt dramatically from below. Some 407 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,359 and perhaps these are more in cities, They just melt 408 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:13,079 out from above. 409 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 2: And we transition from the American West to the vast, 410 00:20:16,319 --> 00:20:21,119 frozen and increasingly thawing landscape of Siberia. Specifically, we're going 411 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,559 to the Yamal Peninsula in. 412 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: The northwest, and our focus shifts drastically here from magma 413 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,759 to microbiology, but the theme remains completely unified, ancient forces 414 00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,839 being reawakened by modern heat and environmental disruption. 415 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: The narrative begins around twenty sixteen, and it follows a 416 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,960 period of several years of really unusual warmth for that region. 417 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,599 Speaker 1: And we hear this chilling account. It starts with a 418 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,440 single farmer in this remote small town who finds the 419 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,640 carcass of one of. 420 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: His reindeer, which you know initially that's not totally unusual. 421 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:57,319 Animals die, but the pace of death quickly, dramatically accelerates, 422 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,920 and over the next month, local herders watched in just 423 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,400 absolute horror as more and more of their reindeer livestock 424 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,680 got sick and then died. 425 00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: The scale of the loss here became devastating, not just 426 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,480 economically but culturally. The sources state that in all over 427 00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:17,200 twelve hundred reindeer ended up dying in a very concentrated 428 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:18,200 area and timeframe. 429 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 2: And for these communities, you have to understand, reindeer herding 430 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:23,640 is everything. It's their entire economy, it's their way of life, 431 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,000 it's their culture. This was an economic collapse coupled with 432 00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:29,440 a massive biological mystery, and. 433 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: The villager's initial explanation was actually pretty logical for the region. 434 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,200 They connected the effect to the obvious cause, see the heat. 435 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,240 They blamed the deaths on stress the animals were undergoing 436 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:42,920 due to that summer's unusually high temperatures, which had been 437 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,519 unprecedented in recent memory. They were thinking heat stroke. They 438 00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:50,400 were missing the truly terrifying biological mechanism that was actually 439 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:50,839 at play. 440 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 2: And the focus shifts dramatically when the villagers themselves start 441 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:56,000 getting sick. 442 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: Right, locals started developing these classic telltale signs, very high 443 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,359 fevers and these painful localized sores on their skin. We 444 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,759 now know this as cutaneous anthrax. 445 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 2: And it escalated so fast. Ninety villagers fell critically ill 446 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,160 and had to be hospitalized, and heartbreakingly, one six child 447 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,039 tragically died. And the human cost that's what brought immediate 448 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,880 international attention to this remote medical crisis. 449 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: And the doctors treating them. You know, these are highly 450 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,920 skilled people, but they were working in a very remote region. 451 00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:29,440 They were completely baffled by what they were seeing. 452 00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 3: They had no idea what it was. 453 00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: None they were running blood tests, throat swabs, every test 454 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,160 they could think of, but everything kept coming back negative 455 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,279 for known local pathogens, even for common illnesses. It was 456 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:45,799 a medical mystery unfolding in real time, with lives hanging 457 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,160 in the balance because they just couldn't name the enemy. 458 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 2: And then finally, one specialist test broke through the mystery. 459 00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:55,519 It confirmed the pathogen and the result was truly shocking. 460 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,079 It connected the depths of all those reindeer directly to 461 00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,920 the human illness. 462 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: The finding was Bacillus anthrasis. 463 00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:04,799 Speaker 3: Which we know much more commonly as anthrax. 464 00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: Now. Most people, especially in the US, when they hear anthrax, 465 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,319 they think of bioterrorism, biological weapons, the attacks after nine 466 00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:13,079 to eleven. 467 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 3: The white powder and the male exactly. 468 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,279 Speaker 1: But the historical documentation we reviewed for this it clarifies 469 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,640 the reality. While it is absolutely weaponizable, anthrax occurs naturally 470 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,920 and its persistence is due to its incredible ability to 471 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,599 form spores and soils all of the world. 472 00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:31,519 Speaker 2: And it's the mechanism of infection that's so critical in 473 00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:35,160 this Siberian context where the environment in the summer is 474 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,559 very dry and dusty, So what happens animals like reindeer 475 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,599 they're grazing, and as they graze, they disturb the soil. 476 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,039 If that soil contains anthrax spores, they kick them up 477 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,200 and these spores form little dust clouds in the dry 478 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,079 summer heat. 479 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: And the animals just breathe it in. 480 00:23:50,319 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: They inhale the dust and become infected. And that is 481 00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:57,119 often the most lethal form inhalation anthrax. It can lead 482 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,160 to systemic failure very very quickly. 483 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,319 Speaker 1: Once that thraxes inside the body, the bacteria just triggers yep, 484 00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:07,480 it grows incredibly quickly. It produces these potent toxins that 485 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,759 lead to severe symptoms like high fevers, difficulty breathing, tissue necrosis. 486 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,759 Speaker 2: Here's the biological time bomb element. This is what makes 487 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,960 this pathogen so persistent and so dangerous in the wild, 488 00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:21,519 particularly when you start thinking about permafrost. 489 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: Okay, what is that. 490 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,279 Speaker 2: Unlike a lot of bacteria that just die off after 491 00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:28,240 their host is gone, be anthrasis. When it's exposed to 492 00:24:28,279 --> 00:24:33,200 oxygen or harsh conditions, it forms these highly durable, metabolically 493 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,240 inactive spools. 494 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: They go into hibernation, a. 495 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 3: Very very deep hibernation. 496 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: So after an infected animal dies, its body decomposes and 497 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,119 In doing so, it spills even more of these anthrax 498 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,279 spores right back into the earth. The spores are designed 499 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:53,559 by evolution to survive everything UV, radiation, drying out, freezing. 500 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: So the source describes it as a ticking time bomb. 501 00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 3: It's the perfect description. 502 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,559 Speaker 2: It's just sitting there waiting for its next unfortunate host 503 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,200 to come up long and disturb the soil. 504 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,559 Speaker 1: And for humans, the danger is acute. We saw this 505 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,880 outbreak manifest as cutaneous ansrax on the skin in many 506 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,000 of the adults, which is treatable if you catch it early. 507 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,000 But the inhalation form, the one that typically kills the 508 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:17,279 large grazing animals, is far far more dangerous. 509 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: Even with modern fast acting treatment, which is already a 510 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:24,279 huge challenge to administer in remote Siberian towns, the fatality 511 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,799 rate in humans from inhalation amberrex can be as high 512 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:27,599 as around. 513 00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: Eighty percent eighty. 514 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 2: Percent, and that just underscores why this outbreak, even though 515 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,559 it geographically contained, at first, represented such a terrifying mobilization 516 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,039 of an ancient, incredibly legal foe. 517 00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: So as the government officials were rushing to contain this outbreak, 518 00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:44,759 they had to figure out where it came from. What 519 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,680 was the original source, right. 520 00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 2: And they quickly realized that this wasn't a new introduction 521 00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:52,599 of anthrax into the area. This was a reawakening, a 522 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,839 reawakening of a terrible past, literally unearthed by climate change. 523 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,039 The way they find they discovered that in the early 524 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,240 nineteen hundreds, Siberia was ravaged by a series of cruely 525 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:07,720 terrible anthrax outbreaks. The historical records they dug up showed 526 00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:10,880 the scale of loss back then was just staggering. More 527 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,599 than a million reindeer died a million a million, and 528 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,400 their infective carcasses were just left left across the vast, 529 00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:20,160 sparsely populated tundra. 530 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,759 Speaker 1: And this is the critical connection point. This is where 531 00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:25,759 the Arctic environment itself becomes part of the weapon it does. 532 00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:28,319 Speaker 2: Some of those remains, dating back a century or more 533 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,400 were naturally frozen deep within the permafrost, and permafrost which 534 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:35,319 is ground that stays continuously below freezing for at least 535 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,839 two years. It acts as a gigantic natural freezer. 536 00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: So it was, as the source says, essentially refrigerating the 537 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,839 dead deer in the bacteria inside of them. 538 00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 3: Right. 539 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,079 Speaker 2: It was keeping those highly dangerous spores alive and perfectly 540 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,519 viable through cryogenic preservation. 541 00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: And we need to understand why the permafrost is such 542 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,559 a perfect biological freezer. It's not just that it's cold, No, 543 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,359 it's more than that. 544 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 2: It's a knoxic which means there are very low oxygen levels, 545 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,079 and that prevents the normal aerobic decay that would usually 546 00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:06,039 break down these spores over decades. 547 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,559 Speaker 1: Plus, being very deep protects them from UV radiation from the. 548 00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 2: Sun, another major killer of bacteria viruses. So they were 549 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,839 in effect perfectly sealed biological time capsules waiting, and. 550 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: That perfect seal was broken broken by a combination of 551 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,440 these unusual heat events. 552 00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: The release was kicked off by a series of extreme, 553 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,799 long duration heat waves. Starting in the year twenty eleven. 554 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,440 The area began to experience five consecutive years of unusually 555 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160 warm summers and that led right up to the twenty 556 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,599 sixteen outbreak. 557 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: And this sustained record breaking heat. It caused a widespread 558 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,920 phenomenon across the entire Arctic that's known as thermokarst. 559 00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 2: Which is just a scientific term for the melting of 560 00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:51,680 previously stable permafrost, and this melt exposed those ancient dormant 561 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,200 Anthrax spores that had been locked away in the ice 562 00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:58,079 and undisturbed burial sites for over one hundred years, and. 563 00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:00,839 Speaker 1: Once they were exposed to the flightly warmer surface environment, 564 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,279 they were free, free to re enter the ecosystem and 565 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,559 infect the next grazing animal that came by. 566 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,839 Speaker 2: And that's what initiated the catastrophic chain reaction that we 567 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:10,960 saw in twenty sixteen. 568 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: So the officials had to move incredibly fast to contain 569 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,480 this ancient plague. 570 00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 3: They did. 571 00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: They launched a massive, extremely difficult operation. They were scouring 572 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,119 the remote tundra undertaking the grim and dangerous task of 573 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,680 burning thousands of infected reindeer carcasses. 574 00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: Why burn them. 575 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: To sterilize the ground and prevent any more spars from 576 00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:31,119 getting into the soil. 577 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 3: And this was a logistical nightmare. 578 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,319 Speaker 2: It required specialized biohazard teams, vast quantities of fuel to 579 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,960 ensure complete incineration, all in the difficult, uneven terrain. 580 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:42,279 Speaker 3: Of the tundra. 581 00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: And at the same time, they launched a huge vaccination operation, a. 582 00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:51,039 Speaker 2: Massive one, vaccinating tens of thousands of living reindeer to 583 00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:53,640 try and create a buffer zone and stop the disease 584 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,079 from spreading further among the herds, and it worked. 585 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: It did. 586 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: This intensive, coordinated, and incredibly expensive effort gradually worked. The 587 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,519 number of new cases started to slow down, and eventually 588 00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:09,480 the outbreak completely stopped. It was a victory, but a 589 00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:12,359 terrifying one because it was only a localized battle, a 590 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,400 localized battle in a much larger, ongoing war against a 591 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,279 warming world. 592 00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:20,279 Speaker 1: And what's so interesting here is that while anthrax is 593 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,599 a known entity, I mean, we have vaccines, we have treatments, 594 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,079 the broader threat goes so far beyond it. 595 00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: So much Further scientific research that was reviewed and the 596 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,559 source material indicates that it is very likely that more 597 00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:34,680 pathogens life frozen under the Arctic ice, just waiting for 598 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,680 the temperature to rise enough for them to thaw out 599 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,200 and become biologically active again. 600 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,839 Speaker 1: And this raises a profound and truly unnerving concern, the 601 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,759 danger of novel exposure. If rising temperatures continue to melt 602 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:49,599 the permafrost, humans and animals will inevitably be exposed to 603 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,000 these ancient pathogens, and unlike anthrax, many of these threats 604 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,400 will be entirely new to the modern world. They could 605 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,039 date back tens of thousands of years. 606 00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:00,759 Speaker 3: And modern humans have never. 607 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: Had exposure to before never, and this is the critical distinction. 608 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,880 Our immune systems have no memory of them. We have 609 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,359 no acquired immunity. Our medical science has no ready made 610 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,519 treatments or vaccines because we haven't even identified what they 611 00:30:13,519 --> 00:30:13,880 are yet. 612 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,599 Speaker 1: We're not just talking about re emerging historical plagues like 613 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,920 the Spanish flu or something. 614 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: No. We are talking about truly novel viruses and bacteria 615 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,279 that evolved in a world that was fundamentally different from 616 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:29,519 our own, things that preyed on neanderthals or wooly mammoths. 617 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: That makes the biological threat, in a way, potentially more 618 00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:35,599 unpredictable and insidious than the geological one. I think so 619 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,640 with the supervolcano, we know the magnitude. It's a clear 620 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,880 massive destructive event, but we don't know the lethality, or 621 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,599 the transmissibility or the clinical presentation of a twenty thousand 622 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,400 year old thought out virus. The uncertainty itself is the 623 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,200 deepest threat, which is why. 624 00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:56,599 Speaker 2: The source provides such a chilling and unavoidable summation of 625 00:30:56,599 --> 00:31:00,519 the whole situation. As one researcher puts it, regarding thet's 626 00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:04,680 mouth and this systematic release of ancient, unknown contagions. What 627 00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:08,119 they say, he says, this is Pandora's box. Wow, and 628 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,039 it signifies that once these threats are released, there is 629 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,160 no simple way to seal them back up. We are 630 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,000 dealing with global climate changes unleashing forces dormant pathogens that 631 00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:21,599 have been safely contained since before the dawn of recorded 632 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,039 human history, and we have absolutely no idea what tools 633 00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:26,279 we will need to fight them. 634 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: That quote just perfectly encapsulates the gravity of both of 635 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,519 these threats we've talked about. 636 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 3: It really does. 637 00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:35,319 Speaker 1: Okay, Wow, we have covered some immense ground today. I mean, 638 00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:39,319 from the detailed geological process of rhyolite formation and NASA's 639 00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:42,880 completely accidental mapping of the Yellowstone Caldera, all. 640 00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: The way to the frightening implications of bacterial spores being 641 00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:48,680 perfectly preserved in Arctic ice for over a century. 642 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,799 Speaker 1: Let's just quickly recap the two massive ancient threats we've 643 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,480 uncovered in this deep dive on Thrilling Threads. First the 644 00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:01,039 Yellowstone supervolcano, which was accidentally revealed by a Aceline satellite 645 00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:05,359 map and is now showing alarming signs of subterranean repressurization. 646 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,559 Speaker 2: And second, the ancient anthrax plague, which was released by 647 00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:13,799 a series of unusually hot Siberian summers melting the permafrost. 648 00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: The central theme that really emerges for you, the learner, 649 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,960 is that we are dealing with these forces geological and 650 00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:24,279 biological that have been dormant for millennia, and in. 651 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,559 Speaker 2: Both cases, human activity, specifically in the form of climate 652 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,279 change and environmental pressure, is the key factor in their reawakening. 653 00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:34,519 It requires us to really engage in critical thinking about 654 00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:36,359 these low probability. 655 00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: Events, because if they do occur. 656 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: They are supremely high impact. We have to acknowledge that 657 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:44,039 human activity is now influencing forces that were previously purely 658 00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:45,480 planetary or evolutionary. 659 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: When you look at the evidence side by side, you know, 660 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,599 the two thousand, five hundred times bigger than Saint Helen's 661 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,440 eruption potential versus the eighty percent fatality rate of a 662 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,960 reawakened novel pathogen. It forces a really difficult, almost philosophical 663 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,319 comparison of catastrophes. 664 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: It really does. On one hand, you have the swift, 665 00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:10,039 massive global catastrophe, the supervolcano, where the damage is immediate, 666 00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:12,920 it's atmospheric, it's infrastructural. It leads to mass famine and 667 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,039 economic collapse. The outcome, while devastating, is scientifically predictable in 668 00:33:18,119 --> 00:33:20,359 terms of its mechanism. We know how ash and sulfur 669 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,680 aerosols work. And on the other hand, on the other 670 00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:26,319 you have the slower spreading biological threat from a completely 671 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,640 unknown ancient pathogen. Here the threat is insidious, it's invisible, 672 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,599 and it's fundamentally immunological. We know the mechanism of release 673 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,759 the permafrost is melting, but the mechanism of effect the 674 00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:40,759 pathogen's actual lethality is a total unknown. 675 00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:43,759 Speaker 1: The question of preparedness is key here. Dealing with a 676 00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:48,720 fallout from a supervolcano requires massive infrastructural resilience, vast ORed 677 00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:52,200 resources global cooperation to manage a volcanic. 678 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 2: Winter, whereas dealing with an unknown ancient pathogen requires medical 679 00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:59,519 science we may not even possess yet. It requires rapid 680 00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:03,640 genetic sequencing capabilities on a global scale and a kind 681 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,119 of immunological foresight. 682 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,159 Speaker 1: And that difference really defines the challenge, doesn't it It does. 683 00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 2: We can model the ash plume from a supervolcano, we 684 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,559 can model the temperature drop. We cannot model the infectivity 685 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,199 rate or the specific lethallity of a twenty thousand year 686 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,039 old virus until it is already here spreading among us. 687 00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:24,159 The known certainty of the geological threat paradoxically might make 688 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,039 it easier to mentally address than the complete, unpredictable novelty 689 00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:29,159 of the biological threat. 690 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 1: So that brings us to our final thought for you, 691 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,039 the listener. We've unpacked the data on both of these 692 00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:38,960 immense ancient reawakening threats. Given the choice between a massive, predictable, 693 00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:43,639 swift volcanic catastrophe and a slow spreading biological thread from 694 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:47,519 an entirely unknown agent pathogen, which type of danger seems 695 00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:50,079 more manageable to prepare for and which one keeps you 696 00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:50,400 up at. 697 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,119 Speaker 2: Night when you're considering the long term future. Which threat 698 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,960 the geological fury beneath Yellowstone, which we know can literally 699 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,320 reshape continents, or the possible ability of an unknown frozen 700 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,119 killer emerging from the melting ice do you think humanity 701 00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:07,199 is least prepared to handle. We encourage you to share 702 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:09,400 your thoughts and join the discussion on this week's Deep 703 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:09,679 dive