Speaker 1: Hey, what's up.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Warning the following podcast it contains content and material intended
Speaker 1: for mature audience listener discretion. Here we are episode two,
Speaker 1: Episode number two. No longer just a one and done.
Speaker 1: This is officially a series we made it. Cheers to
Speaker 1: that series. Cheers boom.
Speaker 2: What's you're drinking?
Speaker 1: Well, funny you should ask. First off, Okay, a quick
Speaker 1: shout out to a local brewery, Trench. I love Trench brewing.
Speaker 2: We love Trench.
Speaker 1: So if you guys are listening, sponsor us. That's what
Speaker 1: we're saying. I'm specifically going to be messaging you're just
Speaker 1: right out there, but actually thankfully because of you. Okay,
Speaker 1: long story short, So for everyone listening, there's this local
Speaker 1: alefest that usually happens with craft beer, and it's very
Speaker 1: hard to get tickets to. Generally, it's a pretty small thing.
Speaker 1: Local craft breweries, you know, put their stuff together and
Speaker 1: you go there and you try all this stuff, and
Speaker 1: the craft breweries it's it's a drunken evening of lots
Speaker 1: of different beer. Basically, you try all this stuff. However,
Speaker 1: because of COVID. Yeah, that's not gonna happen this year.
Speaker 1: It's what they did is they decided to come out
Speaker 1: with a pack of beer from a bunch of local breweries.
Speaker 1: I had it in my calendar for like a month.
Speaker 1: I've been waiting to buy this pack of beer, waiting
Speaker 1: and waiting.
Speaker 2: Key, I didn't quite realize to the extent of like
Speaker 2: how important this was.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had a reminder in my calendar for
Speaker 1: three days prior to it was a really three days
Speaker 1: in a row. I had a reminder pop up on
Speaker 1: my phone.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay.
Speaker 1: Because they went on sale on a Friday morning, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to go to the store
Speaker 1: as soon as they wake up from work. And I'm
Speaker 1: on night shift. So I wake up with like noon,
Speaker 1: stores has been already open for like three hours, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get my
Speaker 1: case of beer right away. Because I only made thirteen
Speaker 1: hundred cases and a small town, it's not that big
Speaker 1: of a deal. However, I woke up and they're all
Speaker 1: sold out.
Speaker 2: We had talked about me going and getting.
Speaker 1: Them, and that that didn't work out. However, I am
Speaker 1: holding the trench brewing beer from that pack right now,
Speaker 1: and do you want to go on for the rest
Speaker 1: of the story.
Speaker 2: Well, basically, in a span of twenty four hours, I
Speaker 2: was the worst wife of the year and then the
Speaker 2: best wife of the year.
Speaker 1: Well I never said you were the worst.
Speaker 2: Way I felt that way because I was like, holy freak,
Speaker 2: Like I was up and there's like a liquor store
Speaker 2: two minutes away, and I could have just hopped in
Speaker 2: my civic and freaking.
Speaker 1: Got you this shout out to civic sponsor us, yeah
Speaker 1: and now handait, let's get on us here.
Speaker 2: But I didn't do that. I was working, though, and
Speaker 2: I feel like most people who actually went and got
Speaker 2: it were probably supposed to be work. Probably, but anyway,
Speaker 2: that's aside to the point. So I had just stuck
Speaker 2: it up on my Instagram story saying, oh, we missed out,
Speaker 2: like if anyone has an extra pack, like, let me know,
Speaker 2: I'll totally take it off your hands. And we had
Speaker 2: friends that had an extra pack and I was doing
Speaker 2: a photo shoot with them the next day, so I
Speaker 2: uh picked it up and came home and surprised. Okay,
Speaker 2: even before the photo shoot, I knew I was getting this,
Speaker 2: And I almost told you because I can't keep surprising,
Speaker 2: never keep. But I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell, So I.
Speaker 2: Came in the house, I had this pack and I
Speaker 2: filmed your reaction. I need to make a TikTok out
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, you do.
Speaker 2: But it was awesome. I was so excited wife for.
Speaker 1: The year right there. That's why you're a keeper, because
Speaker 1: you buy me beer that I can't buy myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's the only reason. Okay, Well, and I'm
Speaker 2: drinking Trench too. I'm drinking their Wild Burry Vodka Seltzer sltzer.
Speaker 1: It's like a spritzer seltzer, like a I don't know, bubbly.
Speaker 2: Drink, and it's actually quite good. But I do think
Speaker 2: their peach rosemary is my fave.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're out of that, so you're on your
Speaker 1: already drink. You're on your backup now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's still a good backup.
Speaker 1: It's a good backup anything from Trench. Highly recommend that
Speaker 1: they're great people, great place, great drinks. Go to them
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: Totally.
Speaker 1: Do we have anything that we need to announce or
Speaker 1: say anything? Oh? Do we say that we have an
Speaker 1: Instagram in our last podcast.
Speaker 2: If we feel like we did, I don't know if
Speaker 2: we didn't. We have an.
Speaker 1: Instagram, Yeah, go check us out. It's wicked and gram
Speaker 1: just over on Instagram boom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll be posting piving personal stuff about us.
Speaker 1: But then also every episode will be posting stuff and like.
Speaker 2: Photos from the cases and stuff. If people want a
Speaker 2: little bit more like detail, they can go to Instagram
Speaker 2: and look at a cool photo exactly.
Speaker 1: And of course I'm going to make sure that I
Speaker 1: put show notes in the description of this podcast as well,
Speaker 1: So if you want to find anything, do your own
Speaker 1: little research, because I can't cover everything. All the links
Speaker 1: down below, and you can go down the rabbit hole
Speaker 1: that it's the internet to find even more because I
Speaker 1: can't post every link. I went through so many links,
Speaker 1: but I posted the big ones.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Well, and then if you like the podcast
Speaker 2: would be hours two, you can probably have an hour
Speaker 2: like two hour long podcasts on cases.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm like the podfather Joe Rogan himself. His podcasts
Speaker 1: are hours long, like hours.
Speaker 2: Long, right, I remember you telling me that, and I
Speaker 2: was like, how do you both time for that? I
Speaker 2: can't really listen to a podcast for longer than an hour.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's mostly just people sitting back smoking
Speaker 1: a joint and time just like flies by for him
Speaker 1: sort of thing. I mean, Joe Rogan's a stoner himself,
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure it's a stoner audience he has.
Speaker 2: Okay, See, I didn't know that. I don't know him. Well,
Speaker 2: well I cannot that you do. But I mean, like
Speaker 2: I don't follow him.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't necessarily follow him, but I do
Speaker 1: like watching some of his highlights sometimes. He's a smart guy.
Speaker 1: He's a smart, very healthy, very active guy. But he
Speaker 1: does like his marijuana.
Speaker 2: I know him from Fear Factor.
Speaker 1: Oh, the Fear Factor guy.
Speaker 2: I was all about freaking Fear Factor man.
Speaker 1: That show was the shit good old days man.
Speaker 2: And that just like dated us real real bad.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in the nineties or did it run into
Speaker 1: the two thousands.
Speaker 2: I don't even know. I just remember it was always
Speaker 2: so terrifying when they were getting like covered with snakes
Speaker 2: or insects, Like I just I could not deal with that.
Speaker 1: Just mind over matter, Oh there is.
Speaker 2: I would rather eat the bug than that.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: What we are going to do, though, is we are
Speaker 1: going to take ourselves back to early two well, I
Speaker 1: guess late two thousands. This case actually takes place in
Speaker 1: July thirtieth of two.
Speaker 2: Thousand and eight, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, people are actually saying, like friends and stuff
Speaker 1: we were talking to are like, can you do like
Speaker 1: a Canadian case. I want to hear Canadian stuff. I
Speaker 1: plan on doing like worldwide cases, but I definitely want
Speaker 1: to hit stuff close to home. And I remember specifically,
Speaker 1: like when this happened.
Speaker 2: I remember this in the news.
Speaker 1: It was all over the news.
Speaker 2: It was crazy, like holy, how could this happen?
Speaker 1: Like this warning to anyone listening to this case or
Speaker 1: this this podcast. This is a particularly gruesome case and
Speaker 1: very controversial as well. We'll get into why it's controversial
Speaker 1: here in a little bit, but it's very controversial. I'm
Speaker 1: going to try and stay as neutral as possible for
Speaker 1: this one and kind of ride in between, although I
Speaker 1: do have I will voice my opinion, but I'll present
Speaker 1: it as neutral as possible.
Speaker 2: That's fair, that's good.
Speaker 1: Okay. So this is actually basically forever get to be
Speaker 1: known as the Greyhound bus beheading.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, it has a name.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's anytime someone talks about it. That's
Speaker 1: that's what they refer to it as it's a greyhound
Speaker 1: bus beheading or a greyhound beheading or a greyhound murder,
Speaker 1: something along those lines. It's always attached to greyhound, right,
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate for that company.
Speaker 2: But they're still around, aren't they Greyhounds? Oh? Yeah they
Speaker 2: are because we lost our greyhound. But they's still a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, because we're so far north in British Columbia,
Speaker 1: it's like who wants to travel there? Although although the
Speaker 1: individual we were covering today, Tim McClain, who was the
Speaker 1: individual murdered on the greyhound bus, he was on his
Speaker 1: way to Winnipeg because he was packing up his belonging
Speaker 1: to because he was actually moving to British Columbia.
Speaker 2: Oh to Prince George.
Speaker 1: Yep, so he was headed. He left his job. Well
Speaker 1: maybe sorry not Prince stroutge Sorr. He was. He was
Speaker 1: packing up his stuff from where he was in Edmonton.
Speaker 1: He was a carnee and he was traveling back and forth, okay,
Speaker 1: and he was going over to Winnipeg, go home, get
Speaker 1: his stuff there, and he's going to travel to BC
Speaker 1: because he worked as a carne and he was all
Speaker 1: over the place, you know, doing carnivals, and he fell
Speaker 1: in love with BC. Anyways, I'm getting ahead of myself.
Speaker 1: I've got my pages of notes.
Speaker 2: I'm excited for this.
Speaker 1: Let's start at the very beginning. So Tim McLean he
Speaker 1: was actually twenty two years old when he unfortunately lost
Speaker 1: his life. Yeah, it really is. He was born October third,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, so he is older than us. By
Speaker 1: by now he would be what he would be like
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty five.
Speaker 2: I think you're making do math three years older than us,
Speaker 2: so thirty five?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh you're turning thirty six this year. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So he lived in Eliott, Manitoba, which is just outside
Speaker 1: of Winnipeg. It's like thirty kilometers west. And this town
Speaker 1: is like super small, Like I don't even know if
Speaker 1: you can, I don't they have a specific name for
Speaker 1: places that are this big. I'm not too sure what
Speaker 1: it is. But the population was five hundred and sixty two.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's really.
Speaker 1: Sciny, like everyone there knows everybody. Yeah, I can't only
Speaker 1: imagine how like how this hit home when people heard
Speaker 1: of his password.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Tim was like a super active person. He loved sports,
Speaker 1: you know, adventuring and clearly being a carney traveling that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. He was obsessed with his motorcycles. If
Speaker 1: you look up photos of him, often he's wearing like
Speaker 1: an occ hat which is the Orange County Choppers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you remember that show they had and everything?
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally remember.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, he was all into that, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 1: He always loved like playing lighthearted pranks too. He was
Speaker 1: very like a personal, happy kind of guy.
Speaker 2: Oh he sounds wonderful.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was all around happy, made friends, super
Speaker 1: easy and like his family actually even said, like I
Speaker 1: believe it was his obituary even they said that he
Speaker 1: was always saw the good in everyone.
Speaker 2: Oh you read his obituary.
Speaker 1: I did. Yes, I did quite a bit of digging,
Speaker 1: I know, but that.
Speaker 2: Just for some reason hit me. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: He was a good guy. Like reading everything I could
Speaker 1: and there, it was actually really hard to find information
Speaker 1: on him specifically. But but what I did find he
Speaker 1: seemed like he was an all around really good individual. Awesome,
Speaker 1: and he actually he had a friend named Tiffany. Like
Speaker 1: he made friends left, right and center. So he had
Speaker 1: an abundance of friends. I'm sure but his friend Tiffany,
Speaker 1: she was actually employed at the Red River Exhibition in Winnipeg,
Speaker 1: and she told him like, hey, you know, like this
Speaker 1: is a this is a dope place to work. You
Speaker 1: should come work with me. And that's that's how he
Speaker 1: got his job as a carney.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: And that now, this red River Exhibition, it was like
Speaker 1: part of the Western carnival circuit. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: they would travel over like into BC or Alberta doing
Speaker 1: their carnival circuits all over the place. Right now, like
Speaker 1: his charismas he's such a nice guy, easy going, easy
Speaker 1: to talk to, natural carney, like right off the get go,
Speaker 1: like he like thrived in this environment, like to the
Speaker 1: point where he was making really good money. And he
Speaker 1: was even running his own midway shows like quite shortly
Speaker 1: after he joined. Okay, so I heard I another podcast
Speaker 1: I listened to. I'm not I couldn't find how much
Speaker 1: he was making, but they said that he was making
Speaker 1: up to like a thousand dollars a week and in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, Like that's that's that's a lot.
Speaker 1: Like he's making good bag.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that they would make that kind of money.
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly they were. I don't know how accurate
Speaker 1: that is, but.
Speaker 2: That's what I heard. I do think carnies and stuff
Speaker 2: back then were more popular than they are now.
Speaker 1: Carnivals You mean carnies, Oh sorry, carnivals. Yeah, I mean carnees.
Speaker 1: Have they ever really been that popular? They're not known
Speaker 1: to be the nicest of folk. No, a little bit skeevee.
Speaker 1: But by the sounds of it, like to be making
Speaker 1: that much money in the Christmas he had, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure he was definitely liked in the circuit. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he was. He was making good money, which great for him.
Speaker 1: But I guess he was like he had a bit
Speaker 1: of a party life, you know, so he was spending
Speaker 1: it pretty much just as fast as he made so,
Speaker 1: which would lead him to go on to the next carnival,
Speaker 1: next carnival. You know, keep making that money. We all
Speaker 1: do that. The higher money you make, the more you spend.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you always spend what you have.
Speaker 1: Oh easy, Hey, I found this extra fifty dollars in
Speaker 1: my pocket. Let's let's go buy something that's dinner. Hey,
Speaker 1: we should do that. Anyways, I'm always down for ordering dinner. Okay.
Speaker 1: So by the end of July, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: he worked his last carnival actually the Klondike Days in Edmonton,
Speaker 1: some exhibition there. I didn't do my research on that one,
Speaker 1: but some exhibition in Edmonton. That was his last carnie,
Speaker 1: A carnival he worked because traveling all over Western Canada,
Speaker 1: he fell in love with British Columbia and he wanted
Speaker 1: to move over into BC.
Speaker 2: Oh. I don't blame him.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean it's gorgeous here. It's a beautiful British
Speaker 1: Columbia for a reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I want to move, but I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: want to move from Peach or from BC oh one
Speaker 2: hundred percent.
Speaker 1: I want to stay in BC. Yeah, for life, for lifers.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he was not following the carnival to its
Speaker 1: next stop, which was going to be in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Speaker 1: He wanted to move to BC, but he was on
Speaker 1: his way home to Winnipeg via bus, the Greyhound bus,
Speaker 1: which was his preferred method of travel. I mean, as
Speaker 1: a carnival worker, you're traveling bus all the time, right,
Speaker 1: So that's what he's used to. There was reports of,
Speaker 1: you know, people offering to help pitch in and get
Speaker 1: him a plane ticket home. And he's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good, take the bus. Oh no, and that bus
Speaker 1: was number eleven seventy.
Speaker 2: I hate when they had other options, right, It's like
Speaker 2: that they could have taken but they didn't. And then
Speaker 2: and that's like their worst decision of their life.
Speaker 1: Hindsight's twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Something could have happened to who knows, Maybe it was
Speaker 2: just his time, right, like final destination.
Speaker 1: Remember those movies, movies you don't go your you don't
Speaker 1: go on the roller coaster ride and Carnival incident. Right
Speaker 1: off the path of that movie, I just realize, you
Speaker 1: don't go on the roller coaster ride, you don't die.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, oh, you just you escape death.
Speaker 1: You were supposed to die in there, that was your fate.
Speaker 1: And then like death is chasing.
Speaker 2: You up throughout the movie, you just die another way exactly.
Speaker 1: So I mean, who knows, maybe that maybe that is
Speaker 1: how life works. There's no one to say it is, yep.
Speaker 1: So anyways, that's that's Tim. That's Unfortunately Tim was is
Speaker 1: our victim. Vince Lee is the perpetrator in this case.
Speaker 1: So I keep picking up my drink here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you want to drink just have a drink.
Speaker 1: It's good. It's a sour beer and I'm not even
Speaker 1: much for sours.
Speaker 2: Usually, but you like it.
Speaker 1: I do good. So little background on Vince. Vince Lee
Speaker 1: was a forty year old grint from Dangdong, China, I
Speaker 1: mean two thousand and five. He was actually diagnosed with schizophrenia,
Speaker 1: but he left that untreated, so he never took medication
Speaker 1: for it. It was just kind of like that's that's that.
Speaker 2: So you can be diagnosed with something and it's like
Speaker 2: your choice to leave it untreated.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure in some cases, I'm not too
Speaker 1: sure on how schizophrenia is. I mean, who's going to
Speaker 1: really enforce you to take your medication?
Speaker 2: True, when you're a grown person.
Speaker 1: Like if you have arthritis and you're at home with
Speaker 1: your earthritis medication, who's to say you're taking it.
Speaker 2: There's a slight difference between that and schizophrenia.
Speaker 1: Not necessarily, I mean yes and no. But I mean,
Speaker 1: as of right now, there's no reason to assume that
Speaker 1: he's a harmful individual to himself or even anyone else.
Speaker 2: True. Yeah, he's just diagnosed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Vince was actually going through some hard times.
Speaker 1: He was like doing like job hopping, like medial type jobs,
Speaker 1: like anything you can get, like minimum wage sort of thing.
Speaker 1: He was currently working as a paper delivery guy person
Speaker 1: a paper delivery job. I don't know exactly what the
Speaker 1: job entailed, but it was a paper delivery job. That's
Speaker 1: what I found, okay. And he he was on his
Speaker 1: way from Edmonton to Winnipeg because he was going for
Speaker 1: another job interview. He actually got time off his job
Speaker 1: to go to another job interview, which I mean, good
Speaker 1: on that boss. I can't imagine any boss that I've
Speaker 1: ever had giving me time off for a job interview.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe they didn't know it was for another job.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's true. That's true. I never really thought of
Speaker 1: it that way. Way to just like slander that boss,
Speaker 1: be like he's not actually a good guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he's not.
Speaker 1: And he Vince actually has been has been working in Edmonton.
Speaker 1: He left his wife behind in Winnipeg. I believe his
Speaker 1: wife's name was Anna. He left because you know, he's
Speaker 1: going through hard times trying to find good jobs. He
Speaker 1: left his wife behind in Winnipeg. Do not split up,
Speaker 1: but he left her behind to go to work in Edmonton,
Speaker 1: find better prospecs of jobs and everything, and eventually their
Speaker 1: plan was Anna would move over to Edmonton with him.
Speaker 1: But clearly since he's going back to Winnipeg for another
Speaker 1: job interview, it's not working out. It's not going well.
Speaker 1: So those guy's really on hard times, right. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: before he left for Winnipeg, actually he went to a
Speaker 1: local Canadian Tire And for those who are not familiar
Speaker 1: with Canadian Entire, it's like a hardware automotive store. It's
Speaker 1: like a it's like a wal Mart, but it's for
Speaker 1: like you go there by parts or paint or.
Speaker 2: Camp It's almost has lots of things. It has kitchen
Speaker 2: stuff and furniture and stuff too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, it does, but it's it's really hard
Speaker 1: to explain what it is. It is actually hard there's
Speaker 1: no produce. You don't go there by groceries or clothes,
Speaker 1: sporting goods, outdoor goods. There's automotive sections like it's that
Speaker 1: kind of store. Yeah, so that's what Canadian Tire is.
Speaker 1: And he went to Canadian Tire to buy himself a
Speaker 1: large hunting knife. Now, the reason why I bought this
Speaker 1: large hunting knife is because he said, God told him
Speaker 1: your life is in danger. People will try and kill
Speaker 1: you and you need protection.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Right, So that's why he went to Canadian Tire to
Speaker 1: purchase this hunting knife.
Speaker 2: Okay, and he's purchasing this story on his way.
Speaker 1: Home before he went home. Okay, so he's got the
Speaker 1: time off, he went purchased his hunting knife, and now
Speaker 1: he's going to hop on the bus to go home
Speaker 1: in Winnipeg for the job interviews. Okay, yeah, okay, So
Speaker 1: now that's kind of hit the background a bit there.
Speaker 1: And on July twenty ninth, Vince Lee boarded a bus
Speaker 1: bound for Winnipeg from Edmonton. Now this was the day
Speaker 1: before Tim left to Winnipeg. So the bus actually stopped.
Speaker 1: The bus that Vince was on ended up stopping in
Speaker 1: eric'son Alberta for you know, pitstop, foodstop, bathroom break, whatever, right,
Speaker 1: people stretch their legs, and Vince actually stayed there. He
Speaker 1: didn't get back on the bus because again God told
Speaker 1: him that you need to stay here.
Speaker 2: Okay. Oh no, so technically he should have been ahead
Speaker 2: of Ah.
Speaker 1: He should have been one day ahead, yeah, Tim, but
Speaker 1: God told him to stay in Ericson And so Tim
Speaker 1: got off the bus and never got back on that
Speaker 1: bus or sorry, Vince got on that bus. I never
Speaker 1: got back on and the bus left without him. So
Speaker 1: Vince was left sitting on that bench all night, all
Speaker 1: night into the morning. And there was some witnesses witness
Speaker 1: statement saying that they saw Tim sitting on that bench
Speaker 1: about three in the morning, wide eyed VI or sorry, yes, yes, Vince,
Speaker 1: Vince Lee you got me? You got me? Confuseder from
Speaker 1: I second guessed myself, Vince is sitting on this bench
Speaker 1: at three am, wide eye, just staring off into the night,
Speaker 1: sitting on that bench, and there's a sight in it, right.
Speaker 1: And shortly after that, there was a little later in
Speaker 1: the morning, around six in the morning, I believe there
Speaker 1: was a young kid who purchased a laptop from Vince.
Speaker 1: Vince took out his laptop, slapped a sign on it
Speaker 1: saying six hundred dollars for sale. Kid drove by in
Speaker 1: his bike and was like, I don't have money for laptop.
Speaker 1: How much would you go? Kid had sixty bucks. Ben
Speaker 1: sold his laptop to this kid for sixty bucks. Sixty
Speaker 1: sixty bucks, so I mean sixty bucks for your six
Speaker 1: hundred dollars laptop to some kid at six am in
Speaker 1: the morning on a bus stop bench like there's there's
Speaker 1: clearly there's clearly something going on in his mind. Something's
Speaker 1: not right. Though, even if we don't know what God
Speaker 1: has been specifically saying to me, y, yeah, there's clear
Speaker 1: indications that something is not right. Absolutely, So he stayed
Speaker 1: there the entire day and it was pretty well twenty
Speaker 1: four hours later where he boarded the bus back on.
Speaker 1: He got back onto the bus bound for Winnipeg because
Speaker 1: he hadn't heard from God since he left the bus,
Speaker 1: and he stayed in eric Erickson nearly twenty four hours
Speaker 1: and when he got back on the bus, that bus
Speaker 1: he got on was number eleven seventy, the same bus
Speaker 1: Tim McLean's on.
Speaker 2: Yes, twenty four hours is a long time to just
Speaker 2: be sitting there waiting.
Speaker 1: Right while he was waiting for the voice to say
Speaker 1: something again and it never did. Wow, Okay. So he
Speaker 1: gets on the bus and he sits in one of
Speaker 1: the first front rows while Tim is actually sitting in
Speaker 1: one of the back rows. So there are almost a
Speaker 1: bus length apart, and there's thirty seven people on this bus.
Speaker 1: And I looked up. I don't know what model bus
Speaker 1: they were on, but about fifty five people is the
Speaker 1: normal amount of people a bus can fit. So this
Speaker 1: bus isn't packed, but it's it's fair.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of people on the Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this bus, you know, began its way over to Winnipeg,
Speaker 1: and it ended up making another stop in Brandon, Manitoba.
Speaker 1: You know, bathroom break, food break, whatever, may be filling
Speaker 1: up for gas, that sort of thing, right, And on
Speaker 1: that break, when everyone was getting back on, Vince decided
Speaker 1: he was going to change seats. So instead of sitting
Speaker 1: in one of the front rows, he continued past his
Speaker 1: seat he was sitting in, into the next one, into
Speaker 1: the next one, and he's looking at each seat on
Speaker 1: his way bye. And he comes to the seat in
Speaker 1: the back where Tim is sitting, decides this is where
Speaker 1: he's gonna sit, and he sits down right next to
Speaker 1: Tim oh Man. Okay, So some people had noticed that
Speaker 1: Vince was having some odd behavior during this entire trip.
Speaker 1: He was he was rocking back and forth. There was
Speaker 1: even a report of him he had to roll a
Speaker 1: toilet paper and he had an iced tea bottle of
Speaker 1: iced tea, and he would tuck the roll of toilet
Speaker 1: paper under his chin and then like unscrew the cap
Speaker 1: for the iced tea, to take a drink from the
Speaker 1: iced tea, screw the cat back on, and then take
Speaker 1: the toilet paper out from under his chin and hold
Speaker 1: on to him both.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting, that's very.
Speaker 1: Weird, Like why wouldn't you just put the toilet paper
Speaker 1: down or put it in your bag? Who knows? Who
Speaker 1: knows what his thought process was, But he was doing
Speaker 1: interesting things like.
Speaker 2: That, and it was I imagine you would before what's
Speaker 2: about to go down?
Speaker 1: Right? And it was. It was progressively getting worse too.
Speaker 1: Eventually he was actually chanting in another language, chanting and muttering,
Speaker 1: so it got quite severe. All the while Tim is
Speaker 1: next to him, leaning against the window, trying to sleep
Speaker 1: with his headphones on, so not really the wiser of
Speaker 1: how the odd behavior is playing out next to him.
Speaker 2: He's probably trying just like ignore him.
Speaker 1: Probably.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So at approximately eight point thirty pm, Vince heard a
Speaker 1: voice that said, the man next to you has to die. No,
Speaker 1: and a witness across the aisle from Vince said he
Speaker 1: saw Vince reach into his bag and pull out a
Speaker 1: hunting knife and quickly began attacking and stabbing Tim McLean.
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh no, okay, oh no.
Speaker 1: So immediately, you know, someone screams because they just saw
Speaker 1: this happen. So they're screaming, no, stop the bus, stop
Speaker 1: the bus.
Speaker 2: The bus pulls over the mid driving.
Speaker 1: This is mid driving.
Speaker 2: Okay, they're not even at a pit stop or stop.
Speaker 2: They're driving.
Speaker 1: They're driving.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's too much. I don't know why that makes it.
Speaker 1: The bus driver pulled over on the shoulder of the
Speaker 1: road and everyone's getting out of the bus while Vince
Speaker 1: is leaned over and Tim is between Vince and the
Speaker 1: window with nowhere to go. Oh no, like just horrific. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there are signs of defensive wounds, like Tim tried
Speaker 1: to defend himself or escape or even maybe fight back.
Speaker 1: He eventually ended up over the aisle. Some people say
Speaker 1: he tried to climb over the seat. I couldn't find
Speaker 1: any report specifically of that. All I could see in
Speaker 1: any report was that he ended up in the aisle
Speaker 1: somehow with defensive wounds on.
Speaker 2: His hands, so he tried. I wonder if they were
Speaker 2: both the same size or no.
Speaker 1: Actually, Tim was not a very big individual. He was
Speaker 1: like your average kind of guy. By the photos I saw,
Speaker 1: I didn't see his weight or anything. But I would
Speaker 1: say he was probably I don't know, five ten hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety pounds, whereas Vince was. I believe Vince was
Speaker 1: six foot tall.
Speaker 2: Oh, so he's much bigger.
Speaker 1: And he was probably I would estimate to be two
Speaker 1: thirty maybe two.
Speaker 2: Forty oh okay, So he didn't even like stand a chance.
Speaker 1: Really, he had a much larger guy on top of
Speaker 1: him with a hunting knife. Yeah, and it it wasn't
Speaker 1: the case where it was like he just stabbed him
Speaker 1: a couple of times. He repeatedly, over and over and over,
Speaker 1: was stabbing him. And by the time that the bus
Speaker 1: was evacuated. I saw one report that they estimate there
Speaker 1: could have been up to sixty to eighty stab wounds
Speaker 1: by the time the bus was evacuated. So after Tim
Speaker 1: is laying in the middle of the aisle, the bus
Speaker 1: is evacuated, Vince then tried to exit the bush. He
Speaker 1: goes to the front and tries to go out the door,
Speaker 1: but the bus driver I've got it. Sorry, I'm not
Speaker 1: even looking at my notes because I know this story
Speaker 1: so well by now. The bus driver's name was Bruce Martin.
Speaker 1: Him and a passenger from the bus and a truck
Speaker 1: driver who had stopped was flagged down. The three of
Speaker 1: them managed to keep the door closed on Vince Lee,
Speaker 1: but Vince like they closed it on his arm as
Speaker 1: he's swinging the knife out the front door, like he's
Speaker 1: trying to I don't know if he's trying to kill
Speaker 1: someone else or if he was just trying to just
Speaker 1: slash his way through sort of thing to get away.
Speaker 2: So like it was just Vince and Tim on the
Speaker 2: bus at that time, yes, And but they do they
Speaker 2: don't They probably don't even know if Tim was dead.
Speaker 1: They don't know. But they close the door on Vince
Speaker 1: trying to escape, and they literally close it like on
Speaker 1: his arm, so they he gets his arm back and
Speaker 1: he goes back to Tim.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I don't even know if that's like
Speaker 2: the right decision, but I guess it is. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just feel okay, So.
Speaker 1: Just hold on here for I know where you're going
Speaker 1: with this, because they just close the door on this guy, right. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: when Vince goes back to Tim to continue to like
Speaker 1: mutilate his body, they opened the door again and they
Speaker 1: one of the individuals I can't remember who it was.
Speaker 1: I didn't write down, which if it was a bus
Speaker 1: driver or the trucker or one of the passengers went
Speaker 1: back on the bus to see what was happening, Like
Speaker 1: if Tim is okay, So he gets on the bus
Speaker 1: and he's standing about where the bus driver would be,
Speaker 1: and Tim is in the back of the bus with Vince,
Speaker 1: and he said he looked at Vince in the eye,
Speaker 1: and Vince had like an expressionless face and took his
Speaker 1: knife and began cutting off Tim's head. So in that instant,
Speaker 1: he knew that Tim was not alive. Yes, So he
Speaker 1: left the bus and they closed the door again with
Speaker 1: Vince and Tim both inside the bus.
Speaker 2: I mean, if he had that many stab rooms, he
Speaker 2: was probably like already dead. But then if they just
Speaker 2: had let Vince off and captured him in that moment,
Speaker 2: but who's going to capture I mean, but it was
Speaker 2: putting so many other people at risk because at that point,
Speaker 2: no one else was injured, really, right, it was just him.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 1: It's it's a struggle. I mean, you have someone being murdered.
Speaker 1: The first thing you need to do is get everyone safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's better that just one person, I guess is
Speaker 2: injured than.
Speaker 1: Way more and it's not like they unknowingly just locked
Speaker 1: him up in there, like someone went back in there
Speaker 1: to try and take a look.
Speaker 2: Right, That helps me a bit, it does.
Speaker 1: There are good Samaritans. They did try and do what
Speaker 1: they could do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, huh.
Speaker 1: So Vince unfortunately mutilated Tim to the point where he
Speaker 1: did fully decapitate his head and he was holding it
Speaker 1: up like a trophy expressionless though, like he wasn't showing
Speaker 1: it up, but he was just holding it up and
Speaker 1: walked towards the front of the bus.
Speaker 2: That's probably just like a sight that you would just
Speaker 2: never get out of your head.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine, Like it's gruesome. Yeah, so Vince
Speaker 1: wants at the front of the bus, drops the head
Speaker 1: and tries to get out the door again, but the
Speaker 1: door's closed. They can't do it. He tries. He tried
Speaker 1: to open the door via the mechanisms and the drivers there.
Speaker 1: Some say he's tried to start the bus, but he
Speaker 1: could whatever he was trying to do, he couldn't because
Speaker 1: a bus driver actually did disable things in the bus
Speaker 1: so nothing could happen. He was stuck in them.
Speaker 2: Imagine if he just like took off, Holy Molly, right,
Speaker 2: And I wonder also if Greyhound, like it's so surprising
Speaker 2: that this knife was even allowed on the bus, but
Speaker 2: I don't think they really checked. Maybe they do now,
Speaker 2: but from my experiences, like, I don't really know if
Speaker 2: they checked bags.
Speaker 1: The only time I've ever been on a Greyhound bus
Speaker 1: was like with a group of individuals for like a
Speaker 1: sports team, so I know most of the people on
Speaker 1: the bus sort of thing. Yeah, I've never traveled via
Speaker 1: Greyhound where it's like, you know, you pay your ticket,
Speaker 1: you go on with a bunch of strangers. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how it works.
Speaker 2: Well, my grammy use and I don't think they ever checked.
Speaker 2: It's nothing like the airlines. But I mean that could
Speaker 2: totally change. I have no idea.
Speaker 1: If it changed, it probably changed from this incident. So
Speaker 1: after he couldn't escape the bus for the second attempt,
Speaker 1: he went back to Tim and began dismembering and mutilating
Speaker 1: his body further. Oh no, now, the reason, Vince later
Speaker 1: said the reason why he did this was because the
Speaker 1: voice in his head told him that if he didn't,
Speaker 1: Tim's body would come alive again and kill him. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: So that is why he went back and continued to
Speaker 1: mutilate the body. Okay, so at about this time, the RCMP,
Speaker 1: the police have arrived on the scene and they actually
Speaker 1: barricade the door shut with a squad car right there,
Speaker 1: so they get a perimeter set up like it's he's
Speaker 1: in a bus surrounded by cops.
Speaker 2: There is no way really anyone else is getting hurt, yes,
Speaker 2: unless it's him, I guess.
Speaker 1: So now we have we have a scene under control
Speaker 1: by police force. Now, so you kind of had a
Speaker 1: spot where you're like, I don't know if they should
Speaker 1: have locked him in there. I mean, that's that's civilians.
Speaker 1: You can't really judge there in the moment call. This
Speaker 1: is where the first the first incident of like I
Speaker 1: don't know if they should have done it this way,
Speaker 1: the first controversy happens because what happens is they actually
Speaker 1: lock him in the bus and they decide that they're
Speaker 1: going to wait this out. They don't go in there
Speaker 1: try and apprehend them or anything. They decided they're going
Speaker 1: to wait this out.
Speaker 2: I wonder why, though.
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure. I couldn't find anything on that,
Speaker 1: but they decided they're going to wait it out, I mean,
Speaker 1: other than continue to mutilate Tim, which is horrific in
Speaker 1: its own right. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2: He is already dead.
Speaker 1: The only other individual he can harm is himself at
Speaker 1: this point.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: So what they did try to do Corporal Harder being
Speaker 1: one of the officers on the scene, he tried to
Speaker 1: communicate with Vince and tried to get him to like
Speaker 1: drop the knife out the window, try and get the
Speaker 1: rid of the That's what they're trying to do. It's
Speaker 1: they could they're considering this like a hosted situation of
Speaker 1: Vince himself, like he has himself hostage.
Speaker 2: They would totally have eyes on him too, though, you
Speaker 2: think that they could have shocked him or something.
Speaker 1: That's where the controversy is. It's like, okay, should they
Speaker 1: have done something with further force, But then.
Speaker 2: Like you said, no more damage is really going to happen,
Speaker 2: is either way?
Speaker 1: Whatever the call was, why they made the call. The
Speaker 1: call was that they're going to wait this out so
Speaker 1: he wouldn't drop the knife out the window. Vince was
Speaker 1: actually he muttered something about like I'm staying on this
Speaker 1: bus or I must stay on this bus forever. So clearly,
Speaker 1: like over these events, the RCMP are very aware that
Speaker 1: there is something wrong with this individual. So over the
Speaker 1: next almost five hours, five hours, Vince was locked on
Speaker 1: the bus with Tim's box.
Speaker 2: Okay, I had absolutely no idea it was that long.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's so surprising that it's been that long and
Speaker 2: they're just waiting it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, because the stabbing approximately started at eight thirty pm, right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get into this a little in just
Speaker 1: a moment here. But Vince Truck eventually gets apprehended at
Speaker 1: about one thirty one twenty am, So it's almost five
Speaker 1: hours from the initial stabbing to apprehension.
Speaker 2: Okay. I just had to count that out because I
Speaker 2: felt like his last.
Speaker 1: Time definitely not. I counted it out about four or
Speaker 1: fall times, just to be sure.
Speaker 2: I was counting on my fingers.
Speaker 1: So over the course of these five hours, Vince continued
Speaker 1: to mutilate Tim's body. Oh man, he would scatter parts
Speaker 1: throughout the bus. He would carry things pieces of Tim
Speaker 1: all over the place. Holy shit, not only pieces, but
Speaker 1: like including internal organs. Like he would oh, that's too much,
Speaker 1: and then he would go back and recollect them and
Speaker 1: start bagging them and things. He was also seen cannibalizing
Speaker 1: Tim's body, eating pieces, cutting off and eating pieces of
Speaker 1: Tim's flesh.
Speaker 2: See, at that point, that's too much, that's too much.
Speaker 1: The RCNP even witnessed Vince licking the blood from his fingers.
Speaker 2: Yummy.
Speaker 1: So eventually, at one twenty am July thirty first, the
Speaker 1: next day, after five hours of this, because it is
Speaker 1: one thirty m y, Vince did try to escape through
Speaker 1: a window and was quickly apprehended. Like he's not getting away, right,
Speaker 1: He's surrounded how many officers at this point? So he
Speaker 1: was apprehended and in his pocket they found a bag
Speaker 1: with Tim's ear nose and part of his mouth in it.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I.
Speaker 1: Feel so bad, like family, right, family, everything about this?
Speaker 1: Like he was so mutilated. It is so unfortunate.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because just imagine like the family getting all
Speaker 2: these pieces back and like a lot of them are
Speaker 2: probably just smushed in the bus or something like.
Speaker 1: Oh so excluding like the pieces everywhere Tim's body showed
Speaker 1: excess of a hundred stabs, slashes, and gaping wounds.
Speaker 2: Can even just this popped in my head. Imagine like
Speaker 2: the trauma that the autopsy person had to go through. Yeah,
Speaker 2: of that, that's brutal to have to look at that.
Speaker 1: Now with his head. His eyes were actually missing. One
Speaker 1: third of his heart was missing. Oh okay, and both
Speaker 1: of these are presumed to have been eaten by Vince.
Speaker 1: They were never found. Wow, never found. His eyes and
Speaker 1: one third of his heart were never found.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that'd be the pieces of the
Speaker 2: body I'd go for.
Speaker 1: Later in later on, when Vince was a little more
Speaker 1: cognitive of his thoughts and what he was doing. He
Speaker 1: denied ever eating anything of tim but they saw it.
Speaker 1: They saw him eating peach.
Speaker 2: Probably just doesn't even like he was almost like probably
Speaker 2: blacked out or something in his mind.
Speaker 1: Potentially going on potentially, But it's I I remember this
Speaker 1: being on the news, and I do not remember it
Speaker 1: being this grousome on the news.
Speaker 2: Oh, it would never have been able.
Speaker 1: To I know, I know, but like even I don't
Speaker 1: remember reports of even cannibalism happening. Yeah, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: it researching this like it it churned my stomach. I
Speaker 1: can only imagine being one of the passengers who witnessed this,
Speaker 1: one of the RCMP officers on scene, like you say,
Speaker 1: one of the autopsy individuals.
Speaker 2: The parents. I just think because you want to know
Speaker 2: how my son died or whatever. I just couldn't even
Speaker 2: imagine hearing this, right, I think that I would just
Speaker 2: be the most angry of people in the whole world.
Speaker 2: It gets worse, Okay, I didn't excer that.
Speaker 1: As far as the mutilation of Tim goes. We know everything,
Speaker 1: but the controversy, the controversy. Do you hear that? The
Speaker 1: Sean Connery and me just came out. The controversy, controversy,
Speaker 1: the controvers.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Grinch, You're a mean one.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm I'm going to assume that's a compliment.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Jim Carrey. A right, Jim Carrey sponsor US.
Speaker 1: I don't know how or what or why, but Jim Carrey,
Speaker 1: we like you. So the controversy is just beginning. So
Speaker 1: Vince shortly after after being apprehended, realized that he was
Speaker 1: going to be going to trial, right like he's he's
Speaker 1: going to court, clearly, but he realized he's not going
Speaker 1: to be getting the death penalty. That the death penalty
Speaker 1: isn't a thing in Canada.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, is that a thing? Even then?
Speaker 1: No? No, And he learned this and all he had
Speaker 1: to say about that. He never really said anything in court.
Speaker 1: The only thing he ever really did say was please
Speaker 1: kill me.
Speaker 2: Oh, he wanted that.
Speaker 1: He wanted the death penalty.
Speaker 2: Can I ask a side note question, is he married still?
Speaker 1: Do we know, like to this day.
Speaker 2: Well, no, at the time of like when he was
Speaker 2: doing this murder.
Speaker 1: At the time, he was married as far as I'm aware,
Speaker 1: because what had happened is his wife is in Winnipeg.
Speaker 1: He's in Edmonton, and the plan was that she would
Speaker 1: move over to Edmonton with him when he has a
Speaker 1: job and he's doing better. But he was looking for
Speaker 1: a job now back in Winnipeg. So I assume they
Speaker 1: were together. I doubt they're together now, Oh, I would
Speaker 1: doubt it, But I assume at the time they were
Speaker 1: still married. Okay, they were separated. Not I don't think
Speaker 1: because of marital issues, but they were separated because he's
Speaker 1: trying to find better prospects of money and jobs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's stressful.
Speaker 1: So he anyways, he kept saying like please kill me.
Speaker 1: His trial only took two days and it only heard
Speaker 1: from two individuals on the stand, two psychologists who basically said, like,
Speaker 1: this dude is has like a plethora of mental issues.
Speaker 1: So on March fifth, two thousand and nine, this is
Speaker 1: where the controversy starts. His trial ended and he was
Speaker 1: found to be not criminally responsible due to mental illness
Speaker 1: and his untreated schizophrenia. I'm going to repeat that, not
Speaker 1: criminally responsible due to mental illness and untreated schizophrenia. So
Speaker 1: he is going to see no jates jail time, and
Speaker 1: is going to have no criminal record.
Speaker 2: Key, but is he going to he's going to be
Speaker 2: going to like a hospital for life or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yes, he was placed in a mental mental facility for sure.
Speaker 2: Because I feel like that actually happens a lot. Well,
Speaker 2: but then I didn't, I didn't actually realize these people
Speaker 2: don't have a criminal record.
Speaker 1: Then though, Yeah, that's he has zero criminal record.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, Yeah, like crazy.
Speaker 1: And like Tim's family like furious. There was like they
Speaker 1: tried to get a lot of like federal law changed
Speaker 1: so this can't happen again, Like they were, they were
Speaker 1: trying to do everything they could to have this situation fixed.
Speaker 1: Because this is as far as a lot of people
Speaker 1: think bullshit. And I'm going to say, I really don't
Speaker 1: know how to say this kindly, but I think it
Speaker 1: is too. I understand he went through a lot of shit.
Speaker 1: He had a lot going on in his head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and mental and this is serious, It is very serious.
Speaker 2: But if he's had to be in a hospital for life,
Speaker 2: that makes sense.
Speaker 1: He literally butchered a dude for five hours.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, it needs to be on his record for sure.
Speaker 2: He needs to have some sort of record.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyways, he went to a mental facility and
Speaker 1: you know, of course he's he's locked up in this
Speaker 1: mental facility. He doesn't get access to the outside world
Speaker 1: or anything. Yeah, they got him on medication. He was
Speaker 1: doing great, and he became what they referred to as
Speaker 1: a model patient. So he was initially put in shortly
Speaker 1: after his trial, right like immediately after, which was concluded
Speaker 1: in March two thousand and nine. And in February of
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, the Criminal Code Review Board granted unescorted trips
Speaker 1: to a nearby city.
Speaker 2: See, like, he escort means he's going by himself.
Speaker 1: By himself for thirty.
Speaker 2: Minutes, Okay, and this is eight years eight years after.
Speaker 1: The incident, well, two thousand and nine to twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: so that's what five years.
Speaker 2: Oh, and he's unescorted trips.
Speaker 1: Away unescorted trips to the nearby city. Okay, yes, there
Speaker 1: were some stipulations for thirty minutes at a time. He
Speaker 1: had to be on his medication, and he had to
Speaker 1: have a cell phone so he could be reached and
Speaker 1: communicated with and found that sort of stuff. So it
Speaker 1: started at thirty minutes at a time, that's.
Speaker 2: Not actually very safe measures.
Speaker 1: But keep going and began increasing over time, so thirty minutes,
Speaker 1: then to an hour, then to a couple hours, then
Speaker 1: to full days, because.
Speaker 2: Like I could easily run away and just ditch myself.
Speaker 1: Right, and what if he what if he what if
Speaker 1: the medication isn't actually working he's just pretending, or what
Speaker 1: if he does forget his medication. I must I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that they're gonna make sure he's taking his medication before
Speaker 1: these trips. That it's not just like, oh, yeah, make
Speaker 1: sure you take your meds, you know, have a good day,
Speaker 1: like they're they're witnessing him taking his medication that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Or but what if he takes his medication,
Speaker 1: gets off and then just throws it up in the
Speaker 1: nearby bush or.
Speaker 2: Something, Yeah, you could still leave and then you don't
Speaker 2: have your meds and then something could happen.
Speaker 1: So that there are arguments for both sides here, and
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm gonna try and stay neutral. So
Speaker 1: he's on his medication, which he's been model citizen or
Speaker 1: model patient for the last five years, on his medication,
Speaker 1: no episode sort of thing. So they're granting him these
Speaker 1: day passes. However, these day passes eventually get into he
Speaker 1: can live in a specific community to now where in
Speaker 1: February of twenty seventeen, he was granted quote unquote on
Speaker 1: absolute discharge. He is living free under the new name
Speaker 1: will Lee Baker. No criminal record, no jail time, Oh goodness,
Speaker 1: living a free person.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I just have to say something like I
Speaker 2: actually feel for him, because like having a mental illness
Speaker 2: like that is it's that would be awful.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: But then the thing is he obviously because I know
Speaker 2: there's I bet there's different stages or whatever, right, and
Speaker 2: he has it fairly bad.
Speaker 1: Hm. Well, schizophrenia is different for every day actually.
Speaker 2: Like it affects people differently, I'm assuming, and I would
Speaker 2: imagine his is very bad.
Speaker 1: For him to be for something like that, it's got
Speaker 1: to be sicker.
Speaker 2: And so it's like I feel you hear people forgetting
Speaker 2: or not wanting to take their drugs, and then what
Speaker 2: happens is something like that happened again?
Speaker 1: Or what if he just loses his medication. What if
Speaker 1: he's out camping, for example, with friends or.
Speaker 2: Something who don't know what he is start again right
Speaker 2: away and.
Speaker 1: Then he slaughters his friends in a tent like That's
Speaker 1: that's where this controversy lays. He's a free individual. He
Speaker 1: could stop taking his medication for whatever reason. I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are going to be I couldn't find it because
Speaker 1: there's very little to be found after that absolutely discharge grant.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure there are some measures they're taking because
Speaker 1: I know he has like a court appearance every year
Speaker 1: where they talk like they update things.
Speaker 2: That's not even ten years.
Speaker 1: Right, But he literally got away with murder. He got
Speaker 1: away with murder, and there's very little that happened about it.
Speaker 1: There is no nothing towards his family, like the closure
Speaker 1: for them. Their son was butchered over the course of
Speaker 1: five hours, cannibalized by an individual who just changed their
Speaker 1: name and is walking free.
Speaker 2: You have to imagine that something would have to be
Speaker 2: on the record then, because there's probably certain jobs that
Speaker 2: they can't do with the mental illness like that.
Speaker 1: As far as I can find, he has no criminal record,
Speaker 1: and it's specific says an absolute discharge means you have
Speaker 1: no criminal record.
Speaker 2: Holy moly, because I just feel like, I mean, what
Speaker 2: if you're like working with children or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know, background check won't show anything. He has
Speaker 1: no criminal record. If you unless you google his name,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he has no criminal record and you can
Speaker 1: find nothing about it.
Speaker 2: I feel like now, anytime I ever have to hire someone,
Speaker 2: I'm doing a thorough Google search.
Speaker 1: Rightfully, So honestly, now there's a little bit of another
Speaker 1: piece to this story. Unfortunately, on July, in July of
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, so about the time where he began his
Speaker 1: criminal discharge, like just shortly before that. Oh sorry, his his, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm all over the place, my notes. You're trying to
Speaker 1: say this part?
Speaker 2: You got this.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try. On July twenty fourteen, shortly before Vince
Speaker 1: was grand his first thirty minute unescorted trip, his first
Speaker 1: you know, unescorted discharge from his facility. Yeah. It retired
Speaker 1: RCMP corporal committed suicide due to the PTSD over the
Speaker 1: course of his career and mainly due to the PTSD
Speaker 1: from this specific event.
Speaker 2: Oh no, so it's claimed another.
Speaker 1: Life, claimed another life. He tried to commit suicide prior
Speaker 1: to and was thankfully stopped, but unfortunately the second time
Speaker 1: he was successful and did manage to take his own.
Speaker 2: Life because just the visuals say yes.
Speaker 1: And his wife said that that he did not want
Speaker 1: to be known as the greyhound guy, that he like
Speaker 1: the police officer car because he was. He was known
Speaker 1: to his friends. You know, he was one of the
Speaker 1: officers on the scene, so he was you know, he's
Speaker 1: a greyhound guy. He was there, he saw it. Well,
Speaker 1: you're the guy, You're one of the guys there, right.
Speaker 1: Oh no, he did not want that stigma attached to
Speaker 1: him and the PTSD from what he saw and experience
Speaker 1: that night, along with the rest of his career, it's
Speaker 1: not solely on this incident, but along with the rest
Speaker 1: of his career, and mostly because of this night, he
Speaker 1: took his own life.
Speaker 2: That's really sad, because it's not those people probably weren't
Speaker 2: even intending for to put a title on him like that, right,
Speaker 2: but it happened, and oh gosh, that's sad. That's so sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like you say, it took not only Tim
Speaker 1: McLean's life, but another one as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how did you say twenty fourteen is when
Speaker 2: it took when he took his own life.
Speaker 1: Yes, he did. And I don't have it written down here.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my computer right now. I thought I
Speaker 1: wrote it down, but I didn't. I even look up
Speaker 1: his name right now, just so we can make sure
Speaker 1: that we get him in this, and we can, you know,
Speaker 1: make sure.
Speaker 2: He brought me to Google.
Speaker 1: No, I got it, I got it. I just if
Speaker 1: you talk for a minute.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, what the heck am I supposed to say? Oh? Man?
Speaker 2: I mean okay, I knew a little bit about this
Speaker 2: case from just hearing it on the news and such,
Speaker 2: but I did not know to the detail and extent
Speaker 2: of what happened on the bus. And oh I I
Speaker 2: just yeah, I have I have no words. I have
Speaker 2: no words. Maybe we should just have a moment of
Speaker 2: silence while you're doing this.
Speaker 1: Okay, So it is retired RCMP Corporal Ken Baker, who
Speaker 1: unfortunately took his own life.
Speaker 2: Ken Baker. Do you know how old he is?
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's there in the article, which I'll put
Speaker 1: it down the links below, so you can take a
Speaker 1: look for yourself and give it a nd. However, his
Speaker 1: life aside, I mean, that's that's so bad to say it.
Speaker 1: That's not what I mean. His life aside, his case, aside,
Speaker 1: Tim's case aside. Vince has said, like he's extremely remorseful
Speaker 1: for what happened, and he said he will never forgive
Speaker 1: himself for what he did. However that that doesn't change,
Speaker 1: like he's walking free.
Speaker 2: Well, he still has the mental illness he does, it's
Speaker 2: in check. It's very easy for it to potentially be
Speaker 2: un checked though.
Speaker 1: It is or has a potential to be. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's very controversial for us. A lot of people are saying, like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a dangerous individual who's walking around free.
Speaker 1: And then of course mental health advocates and every right,
Speaker 1: so like he was.
Speaker 2: Sick because he went and got the help he needed,
Speaker 2: or he well he didn't go and get it. He
Speaker 2: was forced it really because of what he did, and
Speaker 2: now he does potentially need to be living a life yeah,
Speaker 2: but gosh, yeah, there's two sides to this, but there
Speaker 2: has to be a middle, and there should probably just
Speaker 2: be something on his record really well.
Speaker 1: The middle that we have is what happened. However, that's
Speaker 1: my main thing is that I understand he had no
Speaker 1: jail time. I get that because he went and he
Speaker 1: got help at a mental facility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. That's fine.
Speaker 1: Him not having a Okay, him living free now I
Speaker 1: can even I'm not solely with it, but I can
Speaker 1: kind of understand. The part that I don't get is
Speaker 1: he does not have a criminal record, because him living
Speaker 1: free if he had a criminal record would make more
Speaker 1: sense to me. Him living free without any criminal record
Speaker 1: does not make sense.
Speaker 2: Well, And I think I was thinking he would be
Speaker 2: in that the is that what they're called mental institutions, Like.
Speaker 1: I'm facility, it's a mental mental facility, is what I've
Speaker 1: been saying.
Speaker 2: Not totally certain, but I wasn't thinking that he would
Speaker 2: be in there for like life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I would assume as well.
Speaker 2: But he is because if a murder was like that done,
Speaker 2: they would go to prison for life. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: no mental illness aside or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, But he's not criminally responsible. That's what they they
Speaker 1: found in court. So why should he have to pay
Speaker 1: the crime? Though, according to the law to pay But
Speaker 1: according to the law. Legally, he is not responsible for it,
Speaker 1: So why does he need to pay according to the law?
Speaker 2: I guess, but I feel like someone died and like
Speaker 2: someone needs to pay for that. That was a brutal murder.
Speaker 1: It it hurt to research this one, that that five
Speaker 1: hours and a bus.
Speaker 2: Just five hours, Yeah, I honestly, I mean the news,
Speaker 2: the news probably didn't even maybe they didn't know the
Speaker 2: story to the extent, but I would have thought that
Speaker 2: it would have been like half an hour, maybe an hour, right,
Speaker 2: But just to learn that it was five hours blows
Speaker 2: my mind.
Speaker 1: So we're going to have trouble finding cases. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: sure we're not going to have trouble, but second episode
Speaker 1: and we have a gruesome case like this, so I'm
Speaker 1: sure we've got more to come. I might not go
Speaker 1: so gruesome on my next episode. I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: got a couple ones that I might pull from. I've
Speaker 1: got ideas. I got to figure out which one.
Speaker 2: You need a break from the gruesome.
Speaker 1: Maybe, although they're all going to be gruesome, just this
Speaker 1: is extremely gruesome and contraver. I want an incident where
Speaker 1: I can yell at the dude for being a dick
Speaker 1: and not have an excuse or feel bad.
Speaker 2: I know, because yeah, you feel like you have to
Speaker 2: watch what you say slightly, because I mean, yeah, that
Speaker 2: totally mentalness is.
Speaker 1: A thing, and he is, Yeah, and there's every right
Speaker 1: to consider that.
Speaker 2: But then this other person died very horrifically and that's awful.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you guys have opinions, hit us up on Instagram.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear what you have to say. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw you to the wolves here, Nicole.
Speaker 1: Next episode is going to be your episode.
Speaker 2: It's all me, and I'm giving no hints.
Speaker 1: No hints, no hints nothing. I've been so nice to
Speaker 1: you over the course of like the three weeks you've
Speaker 1: been leading up starting this podcast, letting you know the
Speaker 1: stuff I'm doing.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Wow, you've been like milking information from me left, right
Speaker 1: and center. And I've been so nice and now you're
Speaker 1: dropping this brutal.
Speaker 2: You're just gonna have to wait and hear it.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I guess I'll have to wait and
Speaker 1: hear it, and you guys can hear Nicole run her
Speaker 1: first episode.
Speaker 2: I'm so nervous.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be good.
Speaker 2: Though it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 1: Okay. So I guess we'll see you guys in the
Speaker 1: next episode. So cheers episode two and you started in
Speaker 1: episode three.
Speaker 2: Do you remember what were so to say at the
Speaker 2: end of our podcast?
Speaker 1: And you say stay wicked?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so stay wicked.
Speaker 1: Boom