Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Walda cutting Hams, the Luna Modre pilot on
Speaker 1: Apollo seven. Welcome to The Doctor Sky Show.
Speaker 2: And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the exciting show
Speaker 2: that you tell us you like so much, The Doctor
Speaker 2: Sky Show with great guests from the realms of astronomy, space, aviation,
Speaker 2: in weather and celebrity guests in the mix. And first
Speaker 2: I'd like to thank our producer of the radio show,
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Show, Richard Dugan of radio station k
Speaker 2: ZSB in Santa Barbara, California. That's AM twelve ninety and
Speaker 2: a big shout out to the many radio stations around
Speaker 2: the nation that I do, of course air The Doctor
Speaker 2: Sky Show our flagship radio station here in Phoenix, Arizona,
Speaker 2: Atar News ninety two point three on the FM dial.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, the legacy of the Apollo era is
Speaker 2: still very strong in the minds and hearts of so
Speaker 2: many people, and yours truly recently had a wonderful opportunit
Speaker 2: unity to speak, shake hands, and share stories and listen
Speaker 2: to great stories from many of the United States members
Speaker 2: of the United States Astronaut Corps and today leedies and
Speaker 2: z I'm a very special guest, Alt Cunningham, an astronaut
Speaker 2: on board Apollo seven, the first man test flight of
Speaker 2: the Command Service Module. ALLO seven was the only man
Speaker 2: to pollow mission. Launched on a Saturn one B rocket
Speaker 2: and from Pad thirty four at Cape Kennedy, Allo seven
Speaker 2: was the first man test of the Command and Service Module.
Speaker 2: The crew orbited the Earth one hundred and sixty three
Speaker 2: times and spend ten days and twenty hours in space.
Speaker 2: Our special guest is a retired colonel the United States
Speaker 2: Marine Corps Reserve retired. He is Walt Cunningham and the
Speaker 2: author of a phenomenal book, legisds Onleman. If you want
Speaker 2: to know the inside story and scoop behind the scenes
Speaker 2: of the space program, He's the author of The All
Speaker 2: American Boys. Walt Cunningham, Welcome to the Doctor Sky Show.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much, and you've got to be
Speaker 1: really bright because you've read my book.
Speaker 2: Well, sir, I'll tell you one thing, it's an amazing
Speaker 2: time I'm in history when we talk about the legacy
Speaker 2: of Apollo, and I'm honored to have you here on
Speaker 2: this radio show today talking some specifics about a very
Speaker 2: important mission. After a very sad time in the American
Speaker 2: space program. This mission, of course, was scheduled to launch
Speaker 2: as U Nurser back in February of nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 2: but a tragic fire, of course, killed the crew of
Speaker 2: Apollo Ion back in nineteen sixty seven. Welt Cunningham, talk
Speaker 2: about your time in becoming an astronaut. If I'm correct
Speaker 2: on this, you were NASA's second civilian astronaut. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Well, yes, I was. But I got there kind of
Speaker 1: a surprising way, even to me because at the time
Speaker 1: that I applied, I guess the space program, the human
Speaker 1: space program is going on for about three years. But
Speaker 1: if you read my book, you know that I was
Speaker 1: listening to the countdown for Alan Shepherd's liftoff, and after
Speaker 1: I heard that, I decided that that was where I
Speaker 1: was going to go to next. At the time, I
Speaker 1: was working on doctorate and physics and working at the
Speaker 1: RAND Corporation out in Sentiment in California. And I guess
Speaker 1: I knew that I was a long shot, but I
Speaker 1: had confidence and it was a little bit of a
Speaker 1: surprise find out that I actually made it.
Speaker 2: Well, that's an amazing story, sir, because we know from
Speaker 2: our side I'm a civilian. I don't fly anything, and
Speaker 2: sometimes they say in the radio and TV business, all
Speaker 2: we do is fly at desk. But seriously, it's an
Speaker 2: amazing feat to become one of America's astronauts. Tom Wolfe
Speaker 2: of course, exemplified that in the great book and then
Speaker 2: movie The Right Stuff, and it's you. I want people
Speaker 2: to understand, Walt, this is more about the human side
Speaker 2: of this part of the interview. You know, not everybody
Speaker 2: can become an astronaut, and simply not everybody wants to
Speaker 2: be one. So the rigors are becoming one. I mean,
Speaker 2: you have to be not only one the best in
Speaker 2: your class I could physically and also mentally, and that
Speaker 2: today is a very tough challenge. It's going beyond the curve.
Speaker 2: Describe that because I honored to listen to her. You'd
Speaker 2: respond to.
Speaker 1: That, well, I should say, the program and the requirements
Speaker 1: to become part of the cruise in today's program, that
Speaker 1: has all changed considerably, and it's not very popular to
Speaker 1: point out the difference, but the requirements and the capabilities
Speaker 1: of the individuals is different. Probably many of us when
Speaker 1: I got there, there were thirty of us back in
Speaker 1: those days, everybody was a fighter pilot. Most of them
Speaker 1: are test pilots, and it took a certain kind of
Speaker 1: personality and activity and experience to do it. Today it's
Speaker 1: changed vastly. Most of them, I think, are probably not
Speaker 1: fighter pilots or test pilots. Some of them are, and
Speaker 1: a lot of civilians and you know, females and foreign
Speaker 1: members of them, So the whole thing has changed. So
Speaker 1: I just feel, and I'm sure that the way I
Speaker 1: feel is the way that many of my associates from
Speaker 1: those days feel, is that we feel fortunate to have
Speaker 1: lived when we did, because it was a unique kind
Speaker 1: of program back then, and we had a different attitude,
Speaker 1: and we could get away with a different attitude that
Speaker 1: today would probably not really be popular. And actually, of
Speaker 1: the group that we had there all the way through
Speaker 1: apollow we actually added we had thirty a group of
Speaker 1: seven nine fourteen total thirty. By the time we flew
Speaker 1: the first Apollo, we were down to twenty five lefts.
Speaker 1: At that time, five of them had already been died
Speaker 1: off one way or another. So it took a different
Speaker 1: kind of attitude about it. You had to understand the
Speaker 1: value of sticking your neck out a little to get ahead,
Speaker 1: and you had to have confidence in yourself. Some people
Speaker 1: would say you had to be egotistical. Well, and the
Speaker 1: squadrons that I've been in in good fighter pilots, yeah,
Speaker 1: you would say it had a little bit of eagle,
Speaker 1: but they then scluded themselves whenever they could also, So
Speaker 1: that was what there was really difference about it in
Speaker 1: those days. So at the time, it seemed like a
Speaker 1: competition that I had come out okay in and I
Speaker 1: felt capable and confident, even though I'm one of the
Speaker 1: few people there that never knew any one of the
Speaker 1: others until after I got there.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting story. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're just
Speaker 2: joining us here on the Doctor Sky Show, a privilege
Speaker 2: and honor as always to talk to the legacy of
Speaker 2: American astronauts and those spacefarers that of course know so
Speaker 2: much about the long struggle to get the space. Space
Speaker 2: is not easy, it is hard, but these individuals that
Speaker 2: we're talking today, Walt Cunningham lunar module pilot on Apollo
Speaker 2: seven a long time ago, launched back in October October
Speaker 2: the eleventh, nineteen sixty eight, on a fascinating rocket. If
Speaker 2: you're a big fan of rockets, Ladies and gentlemen. This
Speaker 2: is not the Saturn five, but the Saturn one B,
Speaker 2: which is proudly displayed at the Kennedy Space Center lying horizontal.
Speaker 2: Talk about that rocket if you would, because I've always
Speaker 2: admired that rocket. It always looked awesome on that test
Speaker 2: stand or their launch stand. It was kind of like
Speaker 2: a booster, like a step stool right before it went
Speaker 2: off into space.
Speaker 1: Well, at the time that we flew the first man
Speaker 1: flight on the Saturn one B, excuse me, it was
Speaker 1: awesome because it was the biggest rocket that we had
Speaker 1: flown manned up until that time, and they had gone
Speaker 1: to Actually, I think we had two tests on the
Speaker 1: Saturn one B before we flew it, or sweet tests
Speaker 1: maybe they were unmanned, and then the Saturn fire course
Speaker 1: was much bigger than that. But at the time it
Speaker 1: was the biggest rocket that we had, bigger than anything
Speaker 1: that the Russians had as well. But what we were
Speaker 1: doing was trying to demonstrate politically and actively that we
Speaker 1: exceeded the Russians. But the public today today, if they're
Speaker 1: not old enough, they probably don't realize that we started
Speaker 1: off behind the Russians. The Russians launched the first man
Speaker 1: in space, Yury Geran, one orbit around the Earth. Not
Speaker 1: significant except that it was the first human that had
Speaker 1: been actually in orbit around the Earth. Yes, there was
Speaker 1: about ten months later that we finally got an American
Speaker 1: up there for the first one. He had John Glenn,
Speaker 1: who was a marine. There's the first marine to fly
Speaker 1: and John went three orbits and re entered, had some
Speaker 1: potential physical problems, but we made it back. At that point,
Speaker 1: the Russians were ahead. The next thing we did, following
Speaker 1: I think about four manned Mercury flights, we started what
Speaker 1: we called the Gemity program, and on the Gemity program
Speaker 1: that was there to fill the time between Mercury and
Speaker 1: Apollo because Pollow they're already working on to develop the
Speaker 1: hardware and they fly the missions to get manned to
Speaker 1: the Moon. The Gemity program that came in there flew
Speaker 1: of man missions for about two years. And what they
Speaker 1: did is they really three areas. They showed that we
Speaker 1: were moving. We moved ahead of the Russians right then.
Speaker 1: That was an extra vehicular activity, rendezvous and docking. We
Speaker 1: had to do those things. We managed to i'd say
Speaker 1: pretty well perfect them for a two man rocket. By
Speaker 1: the time the Gemity program was over, we had moved
Speaker 1: ahead of the Russians, and to this day, which is
Speaker 1: almost you know, fifty years later, to this day, we
Speaker 1: are still technically and operationally quite a bit better off
Speaker 1: than the Russians.
Speaker 2: Story, yes, sir.
Speaker 1: In spite of that, we have been totally dependent on
Speaker 1: the Russians to get one of our crew men up
Speaker 1: to the space station, you know, for the last let's say,
Speaker 1: I think the last time we slew a manned here
Speaker 1: was twenty ten.
Speaker 2: General eleven, right with the last with the last suddle.
Speaker 2: But you're right, sir, absolutely, and yeah, time we told
Speaker 2: something about it.
Speaker 1: Well, here we go pay the price eighty million dollars
Speaker 1: for to have an American right up there in a
Speaker 1: vehicle that is really not terribly capable and you're very
Speaker 1: very tight. You essentially along for the ride because the
Speaker 1: Russians they're mostly they're vehicles. They can fly unmanned, and
Speaker 1: in an emergency one of them might have to do something.
Speaker 1: But essentially it's not the same kind of operation that
Speaker 1: we've been in. So I'm looking forward to just getting
Speaker 1: back into the air again with some new rockets and
Speaker 1: getting back to running our own missions.
Speaker 2: Well. Cunningham of A. Paulo seven is our special guest
Speaker 2: on The Doctor Sky Show. A legacy of interviews here
Speaker 2: for the last ten years from great guests who talk
Speaker 2: to talk and won't it from astronomy, space, aviation and weather.
Speaker 2: And as you were mentioning the Gemini missions, sir, I'm
Speaker 2: reading this and obviously this is something that I'm learning.
Speaker 2: I keep learning about space every day like the listeners do.
Speaker 2: Your mission Apollo seven was the first to carry a
Speaker 2: crew into space since Geminy twelve back in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 2: and of course the sad loss which we pay homage
Speaker 2: to on this show and every show that we do
Speaker 2: talking about spacefarers Gristhomchafi and White Paris in that horrific
Speaker 2: fire in Apollo one. But your mission, if we can
Speaker 2: go into some technicals, was an Apollo C mission called
Speaker 2: the new Block two Command Service Module. Obviously they had
Speaker 2: to do what top to bottom, make changes to make
Speaker 2: sure that this spacecraft not only was safe, that the
Speaker 2: potential for having fire in on board the craft was
Speaker 2: non existent, and of course you had it what do
Speaker 2: the check ride for this particular rocket the Command Service
Speaker 2: module before the great Apollo eight mission to the Moon.
Speaker 2: Talk about the mission, because this is fascinating on your
Speaker 2: eleven days in space.
Speaker 1: Well, this is a pretty interesting story that the public
Speaker 1: probably doesn't know much about, and if you don't mind
Speaker 1: me taking the time, I'd like to bring that up
Speaker 1: to date.
Speaker 2: Please please do, sir. We want to hear it because.
Speaker 1: We started the crew training. I mean, they've been working
Speaker 1: for a couple of years on developing an Apollo command module,
Speaker 1: but we started training his cruise during the last year
Speaker 1: of the Geminy operations, and that was let's see sixty six.
Speaker 1: At the beginning of sixty six. Of course, the public
Speaker 1: wasn't aware of some of this because they weren't even
Speaker 1: aware when we appointed Cruise. But the first crew that
Speaker 1: they appointed was Gus Chris and Met White and Roger Chaffee. Yes,
Speaker 1: And at the same time they appointed them, they appointed
Speaker 1: us as the back as the second crew, and that
Speaker 1: was Loischer on Don Eisley and myself Walts Cunningham. So
Speaker 1: we started training there in sixty and then we were
Speaker 1: working for the first time with the North American, which
Speaker 1: eventually became North American Rockwell, there was North American that
Speaker 1: had been an expert in preparing for aircraft test life
Speaker 1: for years, and they were very, very good. It was
Speaker 1: the first time they've been involved with a space program,
Speaker 1: and so when they signed our crews beginning sixty six,
Speaker 1: we began working with him out there. We also have
Speaker 1: backup crews, parts of them because some of them are
Speaker 1: still involved on Geminy, But we again began working with
Speaker 1: North American. We began trying to get that spacecraft that
Speaker 1: they had thought was pretty well done for them just
Speaker 1: building it. We had to make it operational from our perspective,
Speaker 1: and that meant a lot of changes changes. It cost
Speaker 1: a lot of time. So it got to the point
Speaker 1: where a about five or six months into that training,
Speaker 1: they canceled our flight because we were the second man
Speaker 1: flight and we'd extended the schedule because of all the
Speaker 1: changes we needed to be made, and so they started
Speaker 1: trying to make up for that because the big thing
Speaker 1: at that time was beating the Russians to the moon.
Speaker 1: Yet today did They were not too sure, but that
Speaker 1: was what that race was at the time, so they
Speaker 1: canceled the second flight. When they canceled the second flight,
Speaker 1: of course, that was our crew, but they assigned us
Speaker 1: immediately to the backup crew for POLLA one because we
Speaker 1: were still on what they call Block one spacecraft. All
Speaker 1: the changes weren't getting made in the Block oup spacecraft,
Speaker 1: just those that were absolutely essential, and some of the
Speaker 1: changes that we really thought might be essential, the contractor
Speaker 1: still had some resistance to against that. So then we
Speaker 1: were backup crew. We were signed to the backup crew
Speaker 1: on Apollo one, and that was in the last quarter
Speaker 1: of the sixty six. Well, we're preparing for the launch
Speaker 1: of Apollo one the first month or two of sixty seven.
Speaker 1: It would not have been able to go at that time,
Speaker 1: but they had been very reluctant to delay that schedule
Speaker 1: summer there wi same time, that was the end of January,
Speaker 1: and we were performing a test on the command module
Speaker 1: and that was the one where they had the fire.
Speaker 1: But that same test, the same test had been done
Speaker 1: the night before, the afternoon before, and Wallashaw, Don Eisley
Speaker 1: and I had performed the test then. But the test
Speaker 1: then was to check out the spacecraft system. It was
Speaker 1: very brief. It was only about a you know, twelve
Speaker 1: or fifteen minutes of actual work on that particular one,
Speaker 1: but we were doing it with the hatch open, and
Speaker 1: they had not closed it up and put one hundred
Speaker 1: percent ouctionen in there. All of the missions up until
Speaker 1: that time had had one hundred percent option. They flew
Speaker 1: with flew the missions and that was just fine. But
Speaker 1: doing that test on the ground, which the next day
Speaker 1: was done with the hatch closed, and they were having
Speaker 1: all kinds of problems, so it took a long time
Speaker 1: to even get to the point where you could try
Speaker 1: to do that test. Sure, but in doing that you
Speaker 1: were closed up inside the spacecraft hatch closed, one hundred
Speaker 1: percent auction, one hundred percent oxygen on the ground in
Speaker 1: order to have the pressure inside the spacecraft. That meant
Speaker 1: you're operating at about no. Maybe sixteen sixteen and a
Speaker 1: half psi. Wow, Now when you do that in orbit,
Speaker 1: we operated one hundreercent auction in orbit, you're at five
Speaker 1: pre Because that was funny, Loxton, to keep you alive
Speaker 1: and keep the operations, Yes, sir. So when they ended
Speaker 1: up a sixteen psi and they couldn't get the test really going,
Speaker 1: so they were operating for hours to get ready for it,
Speaker 1: saturated any materials in there and with auction, and when
Speaker 1: they had the fire, they couldn't get the hatch open,
Speaker 1: and they.
Speaker 2: Were so sad. That's so sad, sir. And I remember,
Speaker 2: tell me if I'm wrong on this, And I don't
Speaker 2: mean that in a bad way. It's just that we
Speaker 2: were down at the Kennedy Space Center for a media
Speaker 2: interview and we were given the tour and then someone
Speaker 2: there said to us, we're going to take you to
Speaker 2: an area that the public doesn't normally see. And I said, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm ready, and our cameraman and myself went. They told
Speaker 2: us no pictures at the Air Force Launch ray station
Speaker 2: because they had some kind of secret payload I guess there.
Speaker 2: But we went over, sir, to the actual launch of
Speaker 2: the Mercury, and we went to the Gemini stand, which
Speaker 2: was all kind of all destroyed, I guess. And then
Speaker 2: we went to the Apollo one test stand where the
Speaker 2: small memorial is to the astronauts Grisom Chafe Point and
Speaker 2: I bowed my head and stood there in silence like
Speaker 2: so many people should. But that's so sad, sir, because
Speaker 2: you're describing what that. There was this horrific fire in
Speaker 2: an oxygen environment one hundred percent had an atmospheric pressure
Speaker 2: which what everything in there was is literally laden and soaked,
Speaker 2: and you couldn't get the doors open in time when
Speaker 2: this spark ignited somehow electrical fire. Is that a fair
Speaker 2: stament electrical right, That's very sad. So I was I
Speaker 2: was thinking that that was the spot right where they
Speaker 2: have that test stands, the concrete test stan. They have
Speaker 2: a little plaque there, So that to me is just
Speaker 2: an amazing sacred site to talk about the Apollo aer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's why we lost on Wow, that's
Speaker 1: all incredible. Yeah, and follow seven. The few people know
Speaker 1: that the numbering of it back there, well we now
Speaker 1: call Apollo one was because Gus Grissom and after he
Speaker 1: was gone, his widow was pushing on it and guess
Speaker 1: was trying to get it called Apollow one because it
Speaker 1: was first man Apollo that it was about the it
Speaker 1: was the fourth I think it was the fourth launch
Speaker 1: of an Apollo command mount. It would have been, yes,
Speaker 1: but when actually when they got killed, they went back
Speaker 1: to the regular numbering system and that would have been
Speaker 1: Apollow four at the time. So by the time we flew,
Speaker 1: and when we flew, it was amazing. It was absolutely
Speaker 1: amazing because we launched twenty one months later, and we
Speaker 1: lost a couple of shuttles, and I think the quickest
Speaker 1: ending one of those got off afterwards, even though this
Speaker 1: problem was well known for them, you know, even from
Speaker 1: the beginning of that. It was like, I think thirty
Speaker 1: one months was won and thirty three months was on.
Speaker 1: Another way, here we were one months after the fire,
Speaker 1: and we had paid one thousand and forty changes, most
Speaker 1: of which you wouldn't think of, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: for example, just fixing how a switch worked or what
Speaker 1: position it was locked in, trying to keep from bumping switches,
Speaker 1: things like that. But then we had some systems changes
Speaker 1: and all that as well, and twenty one months later
Speaker 1: we launched. That was the seventh Apollo launch, I said Gustus,
Speaker 1: and then and Roger. That would have been the fourth
Speaker 1: follow launch the mission. At the time, we had done
Speaker 1: everything we could to make it as safe as vehicles possible,
Speaker 1: but we just all of us knew that we need
Speaker 1: to go off into space. Even today, Actually you're sticking
Speaker 1: your neck out a little bit there, Well, that's spacecraft
Speaker 1: Apollow seven it turned out, and even to this day,
Speaker 1: it was the longest, the most ambitious, the most successful
Speaker 1: first test flight of any new flying machine ever.
Speaker 2: Well, this is amazing, folks, if you're listening to the show,
Speaker 2: of course, and we thank you for doing so. The
Speaker 2: Doctor Sky Show always gets great guests. How about today's guest,
Speaker 2: Old Cunningham, Lunar module pilot Apollo seven, talking and reminiscing
Speaker 2: about the entire early Apollo program, his mission and Walt,
Speaker 2: I'm going to read something here to this audience. You
Speaker 2: know what, you lived it. This also has some memorable
Speaker 2: credits to the Apollo seven mission, the first three person
Speaker 2: American space mission, the first live television broadcast from an
Speaker 2: American spacecraft, and naturally, as we talk, the only man
Speaker 2: launched from Launch Complex thirty four some one hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty three Earth orbits in some eleven days. You lived it.
Speaker 2: I got to ask you this, sir, what's it like
Speaker 2: to ride the rocket the space because I imagine, like
Speaker 2: many others, Wally Shira had a great love of four
Speaker 2: gunt event in some many of the astronaut corps. He
Speaker 2: was like the last person I guess that people saw
Speaker 2: when they placed people and they like yourselves into the
Speaker 2: capsules in Apollo and beyond. But what's it like to
Speaker 2: get into that particular cansul. It's not a very big environment.
Speaker 2: And what's it like to be launched? What's that feeling
Speaker 2: like we'll never experience in ourselves. We got to listen
Speaker 2: to a guy who's done it. Well.
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, it's kind of tough to
Speaker 1: explain to the public at large that's remote from this,
Speaker 1: because they always ask, oh, excuse me. They're always asking,
Speaker 1: you know, were you afraid? And of course I can't
Speaker 1: speak for everybody, but I'm sure that almost everybody agrees
Speaker 1: with me and we say no, we weren't afraid. They
Speaker 1: think we must have been crazy or that we're lying,
Speaker 1: which is not the case. But fortunately, in those days
Speaker 1: you had to be a fighter pilot and we'd all
Speaker 1: been used to sticking our necks out. We knew that
Speaker 1: we were applying to go up into space for the
Speaker 1: first time back then, that you were at risk, but
Speaker 1: we were used to that. It was part of our
Speaker 1: life at the time as a fighter pilot. So the
Speaker 1: launch itself went fine, and we were irritated about one thing.
Speaker 1: We were two and a half month, two and a
Speaker 1: half minutes late on lift off because they had about
Speaker 1: a half hour before they had stopped to bring the
Speaker 1: pressure up one more psi on one of our tanks.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, so I can remember
Speaker 1: us being irritated that we didn't get off at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 1: It was eleven oh two and a half or something
Speaker 1: like that. So the operational aspects of the way we
Speaker 1: were and the people we had there at that time
Speaker 1: was looking forward to that. I can't speak for all
Speaker 1: of the thirty we had in our programs at that
Speaker 1: time as to whether they were freight or not, but
Speaker 1: I never saw one that said he was or admitted
Speaker 1: he was. We looked forward to make a success out
Speaker 1: of that, and I have to tell you Apollo seven
Speaker 1: was really successful.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm hearing from other restaurnauts that the Gemini
Speaker 2: riote to space was kind of bumpy and rough, but
Speaker 2: this one on the centern one B describe it. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is interesting. You feel what this amazing jolt or
Speaker 2: you feel a slight impression, and then what eight and
Speaker 2: a half or ten minutes later, you're in another environment
Speaker 2: called weightlessness, if that's correct.
Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of interesting, and the feeling you think
Speaker 1: about it, but you see when you're in orbit, we're
Speaker 1: right close to seventeen thousand, five hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 1: You're lifting off. When you're lifting off, you're starting off
Speaker 1: at zero, so it takes a coup several seconds before
Speaker 1: you can get clear of the tower. And we were
Speaker 1: about parts of it was maybe a foot away from
Speaker 1: some of the support material down there. So uh, it
Speaker 1: started off slow, slowly, we get by it and after
Speaker 1: after a few seconds and we're clear of the tower.
Speaker 1: We basically we're just we were long for the ride.
Speaker 1: We were checking our systems, keeping in track of them,
Speaker 1: and the ground on a lot of them, ground could
Speaker 1: still read some of those systems. Yeah, you know, every
Speaker 1: minute one of us one or the other would make
Speaker 1: a ground check on the on the audio, uh by
Speaker 1: time and then there's I think it was all over
Speaker 1: ten minutes on the on the Saturn before the one
Speaker 1: be before we got into over. But I don't remember
Speaker 1: anybody having a father of fear. And we kind of
Speaker 1: breathed a sigh of relief when we staged after a
Speaker 1: couple of minutes and dropped the big booster off. Also
Speaker 1: when we've got rid of the launch escape tower. They
Speaker 1: did that before we staged the vehicle. Yes, it was
Speaker 1: just it was an operational feeling that went really almost perfect.
Speaker 1: Now I can't speak for everybody else, but for me,
Speaker 1: I never felt any fear and I was just glad
Speaker 1: to see how it was going.
Speaker 2: Well, Walt, this is an amazing story. We've got a
Speaker 2: few moments left here and I want to jump join
Speaker 2: in and have you join in. That is with us
Speaker 2: and some questions on this. Obviously there was no lunar
Speaker 2: module attached in this mission, as future missions to the
Speaker 2: Moon of Foods required. You were docking with the S
Speaker 2: four B. And this is interesting. It's kind of a
Speaker 2: technical thing. I'm reading this that as that spoor B
Speaker 2: was meant to do a rendezvous with simulating a lunar
Speaker 2: module release out of that particular stage. Apparently one of
Speaker 2: the big adapter panels never opened beyond the forty five
Speaker 2: degree mark, so future missions I guess they had those jettison.
Speaker 2: But that's an amazing thing. It's like doing a ballet
Speaker 2: in space. I mean, how hard is it to really
Speaker 2: run with something? It's not easy? Right, Let people know this.
Speaker 1: Who you raised you? Is the question. A few minutes ago,
Speaker 1: I was going to mention it because I was listening
Speaker 1: as a lunar module pilot and we had no lunar module.
Speaker 1: We were in rth orbit, so they listed me as
Speaker 1: a lunar module pilot. The same way in Apollo eight,
Speaker 1: the right seat was Bill Anders and he was listening
Speaker 1: as lunar mogic pilot. They had no lunar module because
Speaker 1: the lunar module was running behind on its development and
Speaker 1: it's testing. And what happened. We finally got it on
Speaker 1: a poll of nine, got a lunar module, but we launched,
Speaker 1: got into orbit. Did the separation went fine. We were
Speaker 1: supposed to simulate a docking with the S four B,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately two things we didn't know. The first one
Speaker 1: didn't bothers much. Was it was. It was kind of
Speaker 1: drifting and moving, but we turned around one of the
Speaker 1: panels that was supposed to they were all supposed to
Speaker 1: have opened far enough so that he grew up close
Speaker 1: to the target. We had no winner modular there, but
Speaker 1: we had a target where it would have been for
Speaker 1: us to dock, so we couldn't really do that. And
Speaker 1: part of the fix after that, after our mission is
Speaker 1: they fixed it so that all four of those pieces
Speaker 1: of the of the S four B would blow off
Speaker 1: completely as opposed to just open up like that, So
Speaker 1: that was a good plus that came out of it.
Speaker 1: The other thing is we were in a spacecraft that
Speaker 1: only then when Wahra was flying at that time and
Speaker 1: he was maintaining position, he was flying formation kind of
Speaker 1: on the S four B, and we were able to
Speaker 1: do that we had enough fuel. Therefore it after that
Speaker 1: for almost the whole time of the eleven days, we
Speaker 1: were drifting. And we were drifting because it takes fuel
Speaker 1: to control your attitude and to get to an attitude,
Speaker 1: and we didn't have enough shool on board to do that.
Speaker 1: So most of the time you're pointing out into the
Speaker 1: planetary you know, the system out there is the universe,
Speaker 1: and occasionally you're looking at the Earth. Occasionally you can
Speaker 1: take pictures. There's a lot of reasons why we couldn't
Speaker 1: get a lot of pictures, but that's the way it
Speaker 1: went after we got intolve it.
Speaker 2: And also something important here a little on the technical side,
Speaker 2: and you're the man to ask here. The main rocket
Speaker 2: propulsion on the Command Service Module, the SPS engine, that
Speaker 2: of course had to be tested naturally before any astronauts
Speaker 2: were to go to the Moon. So I'm reading in
Speaker 2: my own research here that apparently when they lit that engine,
Speaker 2: it kind of gave a nice jolt. Is that fair
Speaker 2: to say? Or a might be putting that mind way
Speaker 2: when they first showed that SPS to the power.
Speaker 1: Yes, that the engine did give you a joel. We
Speaker 1: were expecting it, we were prepared for it. In fact,
Speaker 1: during our mission we fired that engine eight times. The
Speaker 1: shortest one was just a couple of seconds to see
Speaker 1: if you can do that, and then we had I
Speaker 1: think one was over a minute. On that it felt good.
Speaker 1: We felt like we were moving, like we were for
Speaker 1: a change, and you could feel your back against the
Speaker 1: against the couch that our spacecraft was running so well
Speaker 1: that they added after we launched, they added four different
Speaker 1: mission objectives to it, two of which we never could
Speaker 1: get done. So when we got back they called it
Speaker 1: one percent successful.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, and that paved the way, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2: In our interview today with astronaut of Apollo subn Walt Cunningham,
Speaker 2: to get the next crew paulow eight, to do the
Speaker 2: circumnavigation of the Moon, most memorable time in history, but
Speaker 2: Without you, guys, we would never see this great success
Speaker 2: moving forward into all the astronauts, we want to thank you.
Speaker 2: Just a couple of quick closing comments here and hear
Speaker 2: your response on the more impersonal side. You, of course
Speaker 2: and the crew were invited by President Lyndon Johnson into
Speaker 2: ceremony on November two, nineteen sixty eight. Unfortunately, at the time,
Speaker 2: and this is interesting, all these Apollo crews were given
Speaker 2: to Distinguished Service Medal. Your crew was then given it
Speaker 2: later in time in the year two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: Why I'm mentioning this is because you deserved it, just
Speaker 2: like the rest of those guys and people who's supported
Speaker 2: the program. And then on November sixth of that same year,
Speaker 2: you appear on the Bob Hope Show with Barbara Eden
Speaker 2: of I Dream of Genie. That's to me awesome. So
Speaker 2: there's a lot of stories behind the stories. So well,
Speaker 2: I was it like to meet President Johnson on the ranch?
Speaker 2: That must have been pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not too far away from Flores Leaver Station
Speaker 1: down here, it's on a number of casions. He was
Speaker 1: actually a very nice guy, and we did have afterwards,
Speaker 1: we had the press conference and the medals presented there
Speaker 1: at the ranch, that Johnson ranch. He was very hospitable.
Speaker 1: In fact, when we flew into there, he took us
Speaker 1: in his car and he drove us around his rants
Speaker 1: a little before we got started the other question you
Speaker 1: asked me.
Speaker 2: No, I was saying, you also appeared on the Bob
Speaker 2: Hope Show with Barbara.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you see what happened that? Occasionally people might know
Speaker 1: I've got an Emmy sitting out right near my front
Speaker 1: door here where I live, and nobody ever even asks
Speaker 1: about it. But we had the first live television from space,
Speaker 1: and there was some fuss over that between Wally and
Speaker 1: the ground and there were several other columns. When we
Speaker 1: got into orbit, Wally got a cold, and well, the
Speaker 1: public out there thinks that we all had a cold,
Speaker 1: not the case. I never had a cold. I think
Speaker 1: I actually coughed once or twice. And he didn't have
Speaker 1: a cold either, So it's kind of strange. But Wally
Speaker 1: was operating in a slightly different philosophy than we were.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. Just Wally in the ground,
Speaker 1: White was insistent he was in command of the mission,
Speaker 1: and that's because his father had been an admiral and
Speaker 1: his grandfather had been an admiral, and Wally said that
Speaker 1: whoever's in charge of the ship was in control of
Speaker 1: that ship, wasn't the people outside from the ship. So
Speaker 1: he's basically established a kind of a negative feeling from
Speaker 1: the Missigan control people. So they did later many years later, actually,
Speaker 1: I learned that they tried. They turned off just moving
Speaker 1: that crew, but I went on into I had already
Speaker 1: scheduled to go in to the the for our first
Speaker 1: space station to up there. So for about two years
Speaker 1: I was running that and I was scheduled to fly
Speaker 1: that one until Pete Conrad, who had love seniority to me,
Speaker 1: and he decided to stay and he came in charge,
Speaker 1: and he was very, very one of the most capable
Speaker 1: people that I knew in the program down here. So
Speaker 1: I ended up going out and making a living instead
Speaker 1: of hanging around and just being a backup that one.
Speaker 2: Well, well, I want to thank you. We're almost out
Speaker 2: of time here, but stay on the line after we
Speaker 2: do say thank you and goodbye for now. But ladies
Speaker 2: and gentlemen, amazing stories. These are the best stories, in
Speaker 2: doctor Sky's opinion, those that served their country in the military,
Speaker 2: those that of course, moved on to the special right
Speaker 2: stuff category. Not everybody should do it, not everybody would
Speaker 2: do it. But today's special guest Walt Cunningham. He is
Speaker 2: the lunar module pilot of a future mission that they
Speaker 2: talked about that it actually happened, Apollo seven, paving the
Speaker 2: way for astronauts to make it to the Moon. A
Speaker 2: most amazing story. And read his book, It's the All
Speaker 2: American Boys, A great book, ladies and gentlemen. This particular
Speaker 2: man goes into history books as one of the great
Speaker 2: American astronauts. He was also the book contributor and also
Speaker 2: a big contributor to the In the Shadow of the
Speaker 2: Moon Chairman of the Texas Aerospace Commission, and rightfully so,
Speaker 2: given NASA's Distinguished Service Medal and NASA's Exceptional Service Medal,
Speaker 2: and to all the astronauts out there, we pay homage
Speaker 2: today everybody listening to those that perished Apollow one astronauts
Speaker 2: or some Chaffey in White and many other astronauts that
Speaker 2: gave their lives not only here in America but around
Speaker 2: the world to move on to the last final frontiers
Speaker 2: they talk about in Star Trek. But seriously, folks, the
Speaker 2: Latin phrase add Astra to the stars is what we
Speaker 2: talk about. I want to say again, thank you so
Speaker 2: much Walt Cunningham for joining us. I hope we can
Speaker 2: talk again and share more episodes this epic journey. Some
Speaker 2: eleven days in space, ladies and gentlemen testing out all
Speaker 2: the fine features. Like if you had a brand new
Speaker 2: car and it was about to be putt into mass production.
Speaker 2: These are the gentlemen that made sure that everything worked,
Speaker 2: from the wiper blades to the engine and making sure
Speaker 2: that the key turned and the engine went when it
Speaker 2: was supposed to. Thank you so much, Walt Cunningham of
Speaker 2: Apollo seven. I'm doctor Sky, thanking each and every one
Speaker 2: of you for listening to this legacy as you call
Speaker 2: it here for over ten years with our producer extraordinaiy
Speaker 2: Richard Dugan of radio station KZSB. That's AM twelve ninety
Speaker 2: in Santa Barbara, California, stay on the line with us.
Speaker 2: Walt Cunningham, thank you so much for your service to
Speaker 2: America as a United States Marine Corps Colonel in the
Speaker 2: Reserves retired. We salute your service, sir, to the United
Speaker 2: States of remark.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Doctor Sky.
Speaker 2: Thank you sir