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<v Speaker 1>All right, you're a strutum.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you doing, man.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for the opportunity and I'm looking

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<v Speaker 2>forward to have a good conversation with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you. I'm likewise, I always enjoy talking to you

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<v Speaker 1>South Africans. You are even among your countrymen, particularly impressive.

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<v Speaker 1>You can highly recommend it. So if you could describe

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<v Speaker 1>who are you and what do you do?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So if there are some of your some of

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<v Speaker 2>your viewers who haven't heard of the community of Urania.

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<v Speaker 2>I think South Africa has been in the limelight in

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<v Speaker 2>the past few years, especially with the American interest growing

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<v Speaker 2>into South Africa and South Africans again Africanas specifically. But

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<v Speaker 2>the truth is that the challenges that we are facing

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<v Speaker 2>today in South Africa is not something that is all

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<v Speaker 2>that new. It's something that anyone who were willing and

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<v Speaker 2>able to try and look into the future and try

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<v Speaker 2>to predict certain things could see quite a few years back.

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<v Speaker 2>To an extent that the founders of this project is community. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So Urania is a very specific community and that is

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<v Speaker 2>a community that already in the nineteen eighties started in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of ideological context and it was people who said

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<v Speaker 2>they see that change is coming, and that change is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be possibly catastrophic for Africaners as a group,

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<v Speaker 2>as a nation, as a people what we call in

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<v Speaker 2>Africans a folk, to survive, and in order to survive

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<v Speaker 2>what is coming, it's not enough to just be pragmatic.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to establish something lasting. You need to actually

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<v Speaker 2>go out and do some trioch and establish something before

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<v Speaker 2>the worst happens. And there is a set of let's say,

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<v Speaker 2>rules that they created in terms of what is necessary

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<v Speaker 2>for us as a people to survive. And that is

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<v Speaker 2>what the effort is. It is an effort of the

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<v Speaker 2>both the survivability of a people as well as the

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<v Speaker 2>freedom of a people. And our argument broadly could be

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<v Speaker 2>described as what must we change about ourselves, what must

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<v Speaker 2>be sacrificed, what must we set as non negotiable rules

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<v Speaker 2>for the next generations to thrive. So in the nineteen eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>already before major political change happened in South Africa, these

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<v Speaker 2>people said, okay, what we need to do is if

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<v Speaker 2>we want to survive, there's only one way, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is to be a demographic majority in an area. If

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<v Speaker 2>that is the conclusion, then there are certain requirements, most

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<v Speaker 2>important probably being the idea of own labor, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think we can maybe discuss that in lengths later in

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<v Speaker 2>this conversation, because that is the most cardinal policy of Urania.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the most necessary thing in terms of Urania's

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<v Speaker 2>survival and we as a people survival. So we said,

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<v Speaker 2>we need our own piece of land. On that we

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<v Speaker 2>must build own institutions, and that must all be done

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<v Speaker 2>with our own labor, and that is the way forward.

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<v Speaker 2>Urania has been established ideologically in nineteen eighty eight, physically

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety one when land was purchased, and ever

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<v Speaker 2>since then the big and daunting task of actually bowlding institutions,

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<v Speaker 2>erecting infrastructure and continuing a life year in this part

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<v Speaker 2>of the country has been a very interesting journey.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so several things there. One, you describe the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of forward looking nature of it, right, the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>this that there was this negative event coming over the horizon.

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<v Speaker 1>I have your countrymen on quite regularly. But just for

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<v Speaker 1>the sake of the argument, was that prediction correct? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>What did you know the people who founded the c

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<v Speaker 1>coming and what is life like in the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>South Africa? I understand that a lot of the coverage

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<v Speaker 1>is over the top, you know, particularly from shall we say,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, American and Canadian influencers. I'll leave it at that,

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<v Speaker 1>but were they correct in that gas?

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<v Speaker 2>I think there are a few arguments to be made,

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<v Speaker 2>but in general, for the African people, there's two specific

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<v Speaker 2>things to look at. One is his standard of living, safety,

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<v Speaker 2>security and so on, which declined general public services, ability

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<v Speaker 2>to integrate into the general public life, which which happened

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<v Speaker 2>to now be a dangerous inserviceable are many things that

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<v Speaker 2>I think you your viewers possibly can't even comprehend that

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<v Speaker 2>the lack of service delivery, thrash piling up in the streets,

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<v Speaker 2>rolling blackouts, you know, many negative things. But even that

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<v Speaker 2>is not the main factor for me, and it's not

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<v Speaker 2>the main factor for can I say the true believers

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<v Speaker 2>of Arana, the people who believe in this idea and

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<v Speaker 2>the solution, the truth thing. The true issue is a

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<v Speaker 2>loss of freedom. The loss of freedom and the loss

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<v Speaker 2>of the ability to craft your own future that goes

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<v Speaker 2>with it. It is bad to live in dire economic circumstances.

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<v Speaker 2>It's dire. It's bad to have opportunities taken away from you.

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<v Speaker 2>It is bad to have the risk of being murdered

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<v Speaker 2>or being raped or being robbed constantly. And it is

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<v Speaker 2>bad when the streets of South Africa are overflowing with

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<v Speaker 2>sewage and things like that. Obviously, they are still some

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<v Speaker 2>islands of excellence and we can also speak about that maybe,

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<v Speaker 2>but in general there's a lot of decline in regards

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<v Speaker 2>to infrastructure. What is worse than all those things, Arguably

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<v Speaker 2>one of the worst fates they could possibly be is

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<v Speaker 2>to not be in control of your own future, not

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<v Speaker 2>having the opportunity to take the responsibility to be in

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<v Speaker 2>a certain extent, to be someone sitting on the bench,

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<v Speaker 2>not participating, to be just someone in the crowd looking

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<v Speaker 2>as other players play out the game. That is your

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<v Speaker 2>future and the future of your children and the future

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<v Speaker 2>of your people. That is a worse fate than just

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<v Speaker 2>having bad civice delivery or insecure environment. And that is

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<v Speaker 2>to somewhat our collective fate. It's not necessarily our individual

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<v Speaker 2>faith right, So individually South Africans Africanas still have opportunities

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<v Speaker 2>in the country, don't I don't deny that. I also

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<v Speaker 2>think that they still have international opportunities. Many of them

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<v Speaker 2>immigrate and go seek on an individual basis, they go

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<v Speaker 2>and seek better time. On the individual basis, they go

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<v Speaker 2>and they say, listen, eighteen murders per day in a

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<v Speaker 2>country is just not normal. We need to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of here. Far murders and the brutality that goes with

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<v Speaker 2>it's not normal. We need to get out of here.

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<v Speaker 2>The fact that therese one hundred and forty plus laws

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<v Speaker 2>based on race is bad. I need to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of here. Or the fact that in the heights of

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<v Speaker 2>load shedding, which is somewhat better now, but in the

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<v Speaker 2>heights of load shedding when we had up to twelve

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<v Speaker 2>hours without electricity a day, is so bad that I

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<v Speaker 2>would rather go to Australia, Canada, America, Britain wherever. That

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<v Speaker 2>is an individual choice, and it's good and people should

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<v Speaker 2>have their choice, as they should have the choice to

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<v Speaker 2>now take up the American President Donald Trump's offer to

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<v Speaker 2>immigrate to the United States as refugees. They should have

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<v Speaker 2>those options. Those are individual options. Those are choices that

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<v Speaker 2>individual or an individual family or an individual couple and

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<v Speaker 2>make and they can go look for a very future.

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<v Speaker 2>If that, if individualism was all there is to life.

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<v Speaker 2>These sample opportunities in Southern Africa, South Africa and its

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<v Speaker 2>neighboring countries as well as the is of the world,

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<v Speaker 2>especially the West. But that is not what we are

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<v Speaker 2>looking for. That is not what we want. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>what we dream of and it's not what we want

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<v Speaker 2>to achieve in South Africa. It is possible to buy

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<v Speaker 2>yourself quite a luxurious lifestyle, even even to some extent

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<v Speaker 2>a safe lifestyle by privatizing service delivery and paying on

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<v Speaker 2>top of your tax. Is just much more to privatize

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<v Speaker 2>your security, to privatize your water, to privatize your electricity

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<v Speaker 2>and so on, and just leve behind big walls and

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<v Speaker 2>go out to certain areas and still have a good

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<v Speaker 2>and luxurious life. It is possible. Those are individual solutions,

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<v Speaker 2>as is refugee status in the US or immigration to

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<v Speaker 2>the anglosphere. In general. What we are looking and it's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that people must understand about Urania.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not what we are looking for. We want a

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<v Speaker 2>public life, We want our language to flourish in a

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<v Speaker 2>collective scenes. We want our people to flourish in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of their religion, in terms of their values, in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of what they believe in a collective scenes, not only

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<v Speaker 2>in individual scenes. There must be public spaces that are

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<v Speaker 2>Africaner Christian spaces. If you don't have that, you just

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<v Speaker 2>have an individual, privatized future for yourself. And it's not

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily selfish. It can be selfish, but that's not our

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<v Speaker 2>end goal. We want to make an area that is free,

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<v Speaker 2>that is that is that is Africaner and that is

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<v Speaker 2>Christian and that we can live and thrive on. If

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<v Speaker 2>there is no public schools where your language and your

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<v Speaker 2>religion has been put first, if there are no public

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<v Speaker 2>spaces where your children can plain their own languages, if

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<v Speaker 2>there are no higher education, university level education, and public

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<v Speaker 2>churches where those things can thrive, then you might have

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<v Speaker 2>an individualized few, but you don't have a future photo people.

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<v Speaker 2>And that is the key, in my opinion, for the

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<v Speaker 2>success of pot Anya and what we want to do

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<v Speaker 2>and what we want to achieve.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned the immigration, and you know, as an American,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm of two minds about it. One we have quite

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of immigration to my country, and if you know,

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<v Speaker 1>more of them were people like you and yours, I'd

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<v Speaker 1>be quite happy about that. Right given the you know,

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<v Speaker 1>given the system as it is, but at the same

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<v Speaker 1>time I see that being sort of a path to

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<v Speaker 1>cultural annihilation. Right you have people who move out of

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<v Speaker 1>a community based off of that you know, common ancestry,

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<v Speaker 1>that language, that culture. And okay, sure there may be

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<v Speaker 1>a neighborhood that's you know, forty fifty seventy percent South African,

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<v Speaker 1>but the schools those children will go to will be

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<v Speaker 1>Westernized for good or frail. You know, they will be Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>they will be Brits, they will be Australians in a

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<v Speaker 1>generation or two. And so I understand that that is

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<v Speaker 1>an individually rational decision. You might well live better in

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<v Speaker 1>Melbourne than you could and you know that some city

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<v Speaker 1>in South Africa, and so individually that makes a great

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<v Speaker 1>deal of sense. But when we look at this collectively,

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<v Speaker 1>right you you know, whoever this is, as a like

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<v Speaker 1>a bearer of culture, someone who is part of something

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<v Speaker 1>bigger than themselves, many of those individual rational decisions, well

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<v Speaker 1>they don't look so rational anymore. And this is something

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<v Speaker 1>I think that you know, many Westerners, particularly western angles,

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<v Speaker 1>have a hard time with this idea of viewing themselves

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<v Speaker 1>as a part of a collective. Obviously, this is not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily what I brought you on to talk about. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious if you have any thoughts about that transition

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<v Speaker 1>from viewing yourself as you know, simply one guy, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>your family too, as part of a culture, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you could explain, do you think that being a minority

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<v Speaker 1>group has something to do with that view?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's good, that's an interesting question. Let's start. I

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<v Speaker 2>want to start by stating the following very important announcement

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<v Speaker 2>though me specifically, but Africanders in general aren't that well

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<v Speaker 2>in English. If we were to, you know, in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of English language skills, if we were to immigrate to

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<v Speaker 2>the United States, for example, Minnesota and open a preschool,

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<v Speaker 2>we would spell it learning center. So that would be

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<v Speaker 2>a net positive for the United States in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>even though we have our handicaps.

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<v Speaker 1>That's me true, I would say that's sort of damning

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<v Speaker 1>by fate praise right, grading yourself on that scale.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. So no, But on a more serious note, and

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<v Speaker 2>the reason why I said that is, I think africanash

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<v Speaker 2>moving to Australia, the US, England, Canada, they make fantastic Americans,

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<v Speaker 2>they make fantastic Australians, they make they make great Candy's

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<v Speaker 2>people and and and I see some of my former

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<v Speaker 2>classmates or university friends. I see them on social media

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<v Speaker 2>and I see that they are now celebrating Australia Day.

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<v Speaker 2>They are celebrating in America the fourth of July, and

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<v Speaker 2>they are giving it there all. They want to be patriots.

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<v Speaker 2>They they they immediately adapt to their new host country

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<v Speaker 2>and they try to be the best possible Americans that

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<v Speaker 2>they can be.