Speaker 1: All right, you're a strutum.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, man.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for the opportunity and I'm looking
Speaker 2: forward to have a good conversation with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm likewise, I always enjoy talking to you
Speaker 1: South Africans. You are even among your countrymen, particularly impressive.
Speaker 1: You can highly recommend it. So if you could describe
Speaker 1: who are you and what do you do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if there are some of your some of
Speaker 2: your viewers who haven't heard of the community of Urania.
Speaker 2: I think South Africa has been in the limelight in
Speaker 2: the past few years, especially with the American interest growing
Speaker 2: into South Africa and South Africans again Africanas specifically. But
Speaker 2: the truth is that the challenges that we are facing
Speaker 2: today in South Africa is not something that is all
Speaker 2: that new. It's something that anyone who were willing and
Speaker 2: able to try and look into the future and try
Speaker 2: to predict certain things could see quite a few years back.
Speaker 2: To an extent that the founders of this project is community. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Urania is a very specific community and that is
Speaker 2: a community that already in the nineteen eighties started in
Speaker 2: terms of ideological context and it was people who said
Speaker 2: they see that change is coming, and that change is
Speaker 2: going to be possibly catastrophic for Africaners as a group,
Speaker 2: as a nation, as a people what we call in
Speaker 2: Africans a folk, to survive, and in order to survive
Speaker 2: what is coming, it's not enough to just be pragmatic.
Speaker 2: You need to establish something lasting. You need to actually
Speaker 2: go out and do some trioch and establish something before
Speaker 2: the worst happens. And there is a set of let's say,
Speaker 2: rules that they created in terms of what is necessary
Speaker 2: for us as a people to survive. And that is
Speaker 2: what the effort is. It is an effort of the
Speaker 2: both the survivability of a people as well as the
Speaker 2: freedom of a people. And our argument broadly could be
Speaker 2: described as what must we change about ourselves, what must
Speaker 2: be sacrificed, what must we set as non negotiable rules
Speaker 2: for the next generations to thrive. So in the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 2: already before major political change happened in South Africa, these
Speaker 2: people said, okay, what we need to do is if
Speaker 2: we want to survive, there's only one way, and that
Speaker 2: is to be a demographic majority in an area. If
Speaker 2: that is the conclusion, then there are certain requirements, most
Speaker 2: important probably being the idea of own labor, and I
Speaker 2: think we can maybe discuss that in lengths later in
Speaker 2: this conversation, because that is the most cardinal policy of Urania.
Speaker 2: That is the most necessary thing in terms of Urania's
Speaker 2: survival and we as a people survival. So we said,
Speaker 2: we need our own piece of land. On that we
Speaker 2: must build own institutions, and that must all be done
Speaker 2: with our own labor, and that is the way forward.
Speaker 2: Urania has been established ideologically in nineteen eighty eight, physically
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one when land was purchased, and ever
Speaker 2: since then the big and daunting task of actually bowlding institutions,
Speaker 2: erecting infrastructure and continuing a life year in this part
Speaker 2: of the country has been a very interesting journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so several things there. One, you describe the sort
Speaker 1: of forward looking nature of it, right, the idea that
Speaker 1: this that there was this negative event coming over the horizon.
Speaker 1: I have your countrymen on quite regularly. But just for
Speaker 1: the sake of the argument, was that prediction correct? Right?
Speaker 1: What did you know the people who founded the c
Speaker 1: coming and what is life like in the rest of
Speaker 1: South Africa? I understand that a lot of the coverage
Speaker 1: is over the top, you know, particularly from shall we say,
Speaker 1: you know, American and Canadian influencers. I'll leave it at that,
Speaker 1: but were they correct in that gas?
Speaker 2: I think there are a few arguments to be made,
Speaker 2: but in general, for the African people, there's two specific
Speaker 2: things to look at. One is his standard of living, safety,
Speaker 2: security and so on, which declined general public services, ability
Speaker 2: to integrate into the general public life, which which happened
Speaker 2: to now be a dangerous inserviceable are many things that
Speaker 2: I think you your viewers possibly can't even comprehend that
Speaker 2: the lack of service delivery, thrash piling up in the streets,
Speaker 2: rolling blackouts, you know, many negative things. But even that
Speaker 2: is not the main factor for me, and it's not
Speaker 2: the main factor for can I say the true believers
Speaker 2: of Arana, the people who believe in this idea and
Speaker 2: the solution, the truth thing. The true issue is a
Speaker 2: loss of freedom. The loss of freedom and the loss
Speaker 2: of the ability to craft your own future that goes
Speaker 2: with it. It is bad to live in dire economic circumstances.
Speaker 2: It's dire. It's bad to have opportunities taken away from you.
Speaker 2: It is bad to have the risk of being murdered
Speaker 2: or being raped or being robbed constantly. And it is
Speaker 2: bad when the streets of South Africa are overflowing with
Speaker 2: sewage and things like that. Obviously, they are still some
Speaker 2: islands of excellence and we can also speak about that maybe,
Speaker 2: but in general there's a lot of decline in regards
Speaker 2: to infrastructure. What is worse than all those things, Arguably
Speaker 2: one of the worst fates they could possibly be is
Speaker 2: to not be in control of your own future, not
Speaker 2: having the opportunity to take the responsibility to be in
Speaker 2: a certain extent, to be someone sitting on the bench,
Speaker 2: not participating, to be just someone in the crowd looking
Speaker 2: as other players play out the game. That is your
Speaker 2: future and the future of your children and the future
Speaker 2: of your people. That is a worse fate than just
Speaker 2: having bad civice delivery or insecure environment. And that is
Speaker 2: to somewhat our collective fate. It's not necessarily our individual
Speaker 2: faith right, So individually South Africans Africanas still have opportunities
Speaker 2: in the country, don't I don't deny that. I also
Speaker 2: think that they still have international opportunities. Many of them
Speaker 2: immigrate and go seek on an individual basis, they go
Speaker 2: and seek better time. On the individual basis, they go
Speaker 2: and they say, listen, eighteen murders per day in a
Speaker 2: country is just not normal. We need to get out
Speaker 2: of here. Far murders and the brutality that goes with
Speaker 2: it's not normal. We need to get out of here.
Speaker 2: The fact that therese one hundred and forty plus laws
Speaker 2: based on race is bad. I need to get out
Speaker 2: of here. Or the fact that in the heights of
Speaker 2: load shedding, which is somewhat better now, but in the
Speaker 2: heights of load shedding when we had up to twelve
Speaker 2: hours without electricity a day, is so bad that I
Speaker 2: would rather go to Australia, Canada, America, Britain wherever. That
Speaker 2: is an individual choice, and it's good and people should
Speaker 2: have their choice, as they should have the choice to
Speaker 2: now take up the American President Donald Trump's offer to
Speaker 2: immigrate to the United States as refugees. They should have
Speaker 2: those options. Those are individual options. Those are choices that
Speaker 2: individual or an individual family or an individual couple and
Speaker 2: make and they can go look for a very future.
Speaker 2: If that, if individualism was all there is to life.
Speaker 2: These sample opportunities in Southern Africa, South Africa and its
Speaker 2: neighboring countries as well as the is of the world,
Speaker 2: especially the West. But that is not what we are
Speaker 2: looking for. That is not what we want. It's not
Speaker 2: what we dream of and it's not what we want
Speaker 2: to achieve in South Africa. It is possible to buy
Speaker 2: yourself quite a luxurious lifestyle, even even to some extent
Speaker 2: a safe lifestyle by privatizing service delivery and paying on
Speaker 2: top of your tax. Is just much more to privatize
Speaker 2: your security, to privatize your water, to privatize your electricity
Speaker 2: and so on, and just leve behind big walls and
Speaker 2: go out to certain areas and still have a good
Speaker 2: and luxurious life. It is possible. Those are individual solutions,
Speaker 2: as is refugee status in the US or immigration to
Speaker 2: the anglosphere. In general. What we are looking and it's
Speaker 2: one of the things that people must understand about Urania.
Speaker 2: That's not what we are looking for. We want a
Speaker 2: public life, We want our language to flourish in a
Speaker 2: collective scenes. We want our people to flourish in terms
Speaker 2: of their religion, in terms of their values, in terms
Speaker 2: of what they believe in a collective scenes, not only
Speaker 2: in individual scenes. There must be public spaces that are
Speaker 2: Africaner Christian spaces. If you don't have that, you just
Speaker 2: have an individual, privatized future for yourself. And it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily selfish. It can be selfish, but that's not our
Speaker 2: end goal. We want to make an area that is free,
Speaker 2: that is that is that is Africaner and that is
Speaker 2: Christian and that we can live and thrive on. If
Speaker 2: there is no public schools where your language and your
Speaker 2: religion has been put first, if there are no public
Speaker 2: spaces where your children can plain their own languages, if
Speaker 2: there are no higher education, university level education, and public
Speaker 2: churches where those things can thrive, then you might have
Speaker 2: an individualized few, but you don't have a future photo people.
Speaker 2: And that is the key, in my opinion, for the
Speaker 2: success of pot Anya and what we want to do
Speaker 2: and what we want to achieve.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the immigration, and you know, as an American,
Speaker 1: I'm of two minds about it. One we have quite
Speaker 1: a lot of immigration to my country, and if you know,
Speaker 1: more of them were people like you and yours, I'd
Speaker 1: be quite happy about that. Right given the you know,
Speaker 1: given the system as it is, but at the same
Speaker 1: time I see that being sort of a path to
Speaker 1: cultural annihilation. Right you have people who move out of
Speaker 1: a community based off of that you know, common ancestry,
Speaker 1: that language, that culture. And okay, sure there may be
Speaker 1: a neighborhood that's you know, forty fifty seventy percent South African,
Speaker 1: but the schools those children will go to will be
Speaker 1: Westernized for good or frail. You know, they will be Americans,
Speaker 1: they will be Brits, they will be Australians in a
Speaker 1: generation or two. And so I understand that that is
Speaker 1: an individually rational decision. You might well live better in
Speaker 1: Melbourne than you could and you know that some city
Speaker 1: in South Africa, and so individually that makes a great
Speaker 1: deal of sense. But when we look at this collectively,
Speaker 1: right you you know, whoever this is, as a like
Speaker 1: a bearer of culture, someone who is part of something
Speaker 1: bigger than themselves, many of those individual rational decisions, well
Speaker 1: they don't look so rational anymore. And this is something
Speaker 1: I think that you know, many Westerners, particularly western angles,
Speaker 1: have a hard time with this idea of viewing themselves
Speaker 1: as a part of a collective. Obviously, this is not
Speaker 1: necessarily what I brought you on to talk about. But
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you have any thoughts about that transition
Speaker 1: from viewing yourself as you know, simply one guy, maybe
Speaker 1: your family too, as part of a culture, and if
Speaker 1: you could explain, do you think that being a minority
Speaker 1: group has something to do with that view?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's good, that's an interesting question. Let's start. I
Speaker 2: want to start by stating the following very important announcement
Speaker 2: though me specifically, but Africanders in general aren't that well
Speaker 2: in English. If we were to, you know, in terms
Speaker 2: of English language skills, if we were to immigrate to
Speaker 2: the United States, for example, Minnesota and open a preschool,
Speaker 2: we would spell it learning center. So that would be
Speaker 2: a net positive for the United States in my opinion,
Speaker 2: even though we have our handicaps.
Speaker 1: That's me true, I would say that's sort of damning
Speaker 1: by fate praise right, grading yourself on that scale.
Speaker 2: Right. So no, But on a more serious note, and
Speaker 2: the reason why I said that is, I think africanash
Speaker 2: moving to Australia, the US, England, Canada, they make fantastic Americans,
Speaker 2: they make fantastic Australians, they make they make great Candy's
Speaker 2: people and and and I see some of my former
Speaker 2: classmates or university friends. I see them on social media
Speaker 2: and I see that they are now celebrating Australia Day.
Speaker 2: They are celebrating in America the fourth of July, and
Speaker 2: they are giving it there all. They want to be patriots.
Speaker 2: They they they immediately adapt to their new host country
Speaker 2: and they try to be the best possible Americans that
Speaker 2: they can be.