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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am dant Valley coming

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at you with my certified fantabuo as co host, mister Grant,

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Who's We are onto the second part of our exercise

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of will every NBA team be better or worse? Just

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looking at their regular season win total. We pointed this

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out with the Western Conference, it's the Eastern. Progress is

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in binary in this case we are making it so

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so will all of these teams win more games than

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last season or fewer games? That's the only question we're

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setting out to answer. Russell setting out to answer it

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incredibly quickly because we have an ambitious agenda today, but

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we always have time for this question. Grant, how the

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heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm excited for our ambition, and I'm also prepared to

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go much shorter on all these teams because I did

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not write these slides up like you did initially, so

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my notes are not quite as comprehensive as they were

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for the West.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is is the existences in the Western Conference.

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They are more binary, cut and dry, where it's this

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team is this, this team is that. And so there

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are a couple teams that I think we'll get into

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and it's oh, we can see. But it's just it

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all feels relative to the West, where there are as

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of right now, fourteen teams that are actively not trying

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to lose, and say thirteen if you think the Jazz

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are gonna pull some you know, shenanigans and made up

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body part injuries with their vets like so, it's just

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it feels like this, this conference right now is made

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to be quicker. I guess we'll find out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see. I do. I am going to resolve

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to allow you to talk me out of my position

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more often than for the West, because I was looking

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back and I feel like I only caved like once

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or maybe twice. But I'm going to be a lot

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more suggestible this time around.

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Speaker 1: Well, the other thing is that I might have defaulted

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to you a couple week. We didn't differentiate on that.

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We differentiated on the Pelicans, and I'm trying to think

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of what other team we might think, The Kings. The Kings. Yeah, so,

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but I wanted Kings fans to be mad at you

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and rest assured they were, so.

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Speaker 2: That happens no matter what. So well, actually it wouldn't

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happen if I would ever say a good thing about

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the Kings.

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Speaker 1: But one of our loyal commenters, who's a Kings fan,

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did say that Grant is growing on them, So oh, hey,

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there you go. Take the dubs. All right, let's get

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into that. I say we keep We did it fine

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last time, Grant. I say we alternate and just pick.

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We don't have to go in any sort of order

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here there on the board if you're watching on screen,

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and I will give you the first choice to throw

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to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, ironically, since we're going out of order, I'm gonna

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make this pure chaos and then start in order and

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go Atlanta Hawks first, just so nobody knows what to expect.

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I guess. So again, thirty six wins last year, I

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was kind of like, I guess, I was surprised when

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I looked. I just didn't remember the Hawks being quite

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that bad. So starting there, that's a fairly low bar,

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I guess. I in my notes, and I'm just going

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to go along with this, I start with a question

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for you, and that is, do you think the de

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Jonte Murray trade had anything to do with getting better

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in the short term like AKA for this year? Or

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was it? Or were there other factors? That's kind of

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a loaded question. I feel like I know the answer,

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but this is I think where we should start.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it was just the fit between him

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and Trey Young and the rest of the team really

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wasn't working. De Jontaybury was over stretched on defense in Atlanta,

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and it didn't seem like even with him being on

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the like his contracted to me is a steal. That

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four year, basically one twenty million dollar extension didn't seem

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like there was a huge market for him. I will

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say though, that more it does seem like there was

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a little bit more to it that it was about.

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To me, it was just about reorientation more than anything else. However,

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it does seem and this is probably because their picks

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the next three years are controlled by the Spurs that

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they did place an emphasis on, like we need rotation

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bodies after this, And so I look at that and say, Okay,

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Larry Nance Junior might have always been included, but I

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look at Dyson Daniels where it's like they probably could

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have gotten more first round equity out of New Orleans

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or another team, and it seems like they really valued

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Dyson Daniels for the skill set of he will go out.

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He will guard the other team's best player on most

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nights as long as they're playing on the perimeter, and

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they're probably gonna give him back up point guard minutes

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at this point unless they're really ready to cut Kobe

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Buffkin loose. So it feels like not that they were

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trying to strout, they were trying to straddle the line

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of the two. But to me, this wasn't about getting better.

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This was about rectifying a misread that they had. And

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I was kind of intout I would make it clear

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I didn't. I thought the game up too much for

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Dejante Murray, but I was a little bit more optimistic

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on his fit with Trey Young. It just never ended

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up panning out. And I'll say the two things that

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I think are the driving forces of it is Trey

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Young still has not adjusted his game nearly enough on

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the offensive. And then just Dejontay Murray is not built

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to be your best defensive player and your second or

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first best offensive player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas Daniels, like Daniels is a guy that should

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be your best defensive player and is not going to

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be saddled with the scoring obviously because he just doesn't

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have that in his game yet the scoring burden that

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Murray did. The reason I asked that question is because

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I feel like there were iterations of the Murray of

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a Murray trade that could have made the answer yes,

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Like they could have made a move that was, you know,

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not so much for picks, or a young guy and

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Daniels and a you know, maybe a backup or I

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guess on this team, a third string center in nance

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that had they made that hypothetical deal that brought back

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someone you know, roughly as valuable as Murray but at

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a different position or whatever, it would have been easier

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to say, oh, they'll just be better, right because thirty

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six is not that many wins and they got somebody

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that not only makes more sense, but is like just

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a more established, better high impact guy right now. That

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isn't how I view the trade. I think we view

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it fairly similarly, so that gives me some pause. I

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would say though, that like Jalen Johnson should be better.

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I think Dyson Daniels the arrow is still going up.

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I think a Yaka kong Wu the arrow is probably

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still up. It's not like dramatically so as was the

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case with like Johnson's breakout last year. But there's there's

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enough in terms of projectable growth within this group that

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I think I'm leaning better. I do wonder though, like

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does a hypothetical Capella trade, Like what does that return?

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Is that something they do to get off money? Is

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that is it possible to trade him and get better?

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You know if because you've got a Kong Wo on

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that extension and theoretically Nance is gonna play and probably

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should play a little bit at least as a backup.

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So maybe there's some upside if you can turn Capella

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into something. But ultimately it's like thirty six is not

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a lot of wins. They have enough young guys, and

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it does feel to me lastly that this is well,

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maybe I'll ask you, do you think this is the

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last sort of we're gonna take a crack at Trey

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Young is the quick as this key guy, this sort

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of version of the team. We're gonna go another full

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year with Quinn Snyder. We disappointed ourselves last year. We'll

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give it a run and then maybe reassess after this season.

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So that like suggests they're gonna kind of, you know,

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try to win as money games as possible that's kind

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of how I look at it. Do you see it

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that way?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I would agree, And I think I think we

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might even be just overthinking it too, maybe because they're there,

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it's a low number to begin with, and they're gonna

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care enough to try and beat it, Whereas there might

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be teams Washington, Toronto will get to Chicago like Brooklyn,

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they'll be pivoting out of trying to win at some point.

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And so because there are more teams that aren't actively

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invested in winning, they'll be more wins available. But the

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Trey Young stuff is interesting because we're getting at a point,

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you know, after this season, he will have two years

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left on his deal. Before his two years left on

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his deal including a player options, like, we're in prime

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extension territory with him, and if he's not gonna sign one,

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if they don't want to give him one, even with

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your two picks or three picks at that point, still

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headed out to say, Antonio, if you include that draft

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next summer, that's where you're gonna probably have to make

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some decisions. But it also wouldn't shock me to see

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this team. I don't want to say double down, but

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to actually make a trade that comes with like to

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get a wing or maybe a different like another type

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of forward in there to that probably helps with their defense.

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But maybe they also have some ballhand. They have a

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bunch of stuff that they need. And by the way,

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we have you mentioned Zachary Resiche. Yeah, that's tough here

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because I don't know if he he should project to

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be fine defensively and offensively. I think he's a good

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fit because he just he'll run in transition, he'll play

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off the ball. Maybe you can get him some minutes

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where he'll be able to handle the ball more. I mean,

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like I said, you don't have a true backup point

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guard unless you like Kobe Bufkin or Dice and Daniels

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there So, but the level of experimentation with him or

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investment in him are you either are you gonna start

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sitting him or cap his role because you're trying to

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win forty two games or are you really gonna see

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this through? And also you're not super deep on the

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wings anyway, so you might as well play him. But

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I just I come back through the numbers low. There

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are other teams in the East that are gonna be

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less invested in winning, and so I think even if

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it's a matter of getting thirty seven wins, I think

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they get there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. It really just that thirty

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six is an easy number to be if you have

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a guy who's been an All Star multiple times in

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Trey Young, all right, you're turn to.

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Speaker 1: Pick getting us back on a time track. I'm gonna

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go to the Brooklyn Nets because I feel like this

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should be an easy one. They only won thirty two

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games last year, but they've now traded mcal Bridges. But

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if we go back and map out the Kevin Durant

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trade tree for them, do they end up with like

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thirty seven first round picks? And if they haven't traded

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Cam Johnson yet, they might get more first round picks

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for him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, thirty two Actually, I mean thirty two is

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I guess a quote unquote low total. But like, if

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this team gets out of the teams, I think I

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would be surprised. So, yeah, you said it. No Bridges,

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And between Cam Johnson and like Finny Smith and whoever else,

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they are clearly more likely to be sellers than buyers.

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And I think the last thing is in the interest

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of kind of blowing through a fairly one to my mind,

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this was the twenty third ranked offense in the league,

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and I think there's a great chance that they are

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significantly worse than that this season.

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Speaker 1: They just we're gonna see what's the over under. This

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is the conversation to have if we can spend like

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a minute or two on them, what's the over under

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on the number of shot attempts? Or what's the over

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under on Cam Thomas's usage rate? If I said it,

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it's thirty one? Are you're taking me over the under?

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He might've even been close to there last.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you might need to go higher than that.

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You might need to go like James harden twenty eighteen

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usage rate to get what he's.

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Speaker 1: Okay, his usage rate was thirty point five, So I'm

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going over that's like, that's a pretty like I hit

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it at least spot on. I'll just take over.

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Speaker 2: Then, yeah, just like yeah, no, I mean, like, and

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that's it. That's the thing. Like it might be exciting

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every fifth game when he like wins them a game

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by going for forty eight on you know, thirty two

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shots or whatever. You know, he can be more efficient

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than that, but like ultimately can't. He's kind of a

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perfect like tank commander in that like he's just gonna

241
00:11:02,799 --> 00:11:06,120
get buckets. And if you play him a huge in

242
00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:08,240
a huge role over a large sample of minutes, like

243
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the bottom line will be a negative. You know, even

244
00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:13,360
if he sort of does what we expect him to

245
00:11:13,399 --> 00:11:15,559
do offensively. He's kind of a perfect guy for that.

246
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Speaker 1: I am excited though hopefully they'll try because he made

247
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,399
incremental improvement that might be a little bit generous, But

248
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,240
can you like improve his playmaking like they have the roster,

249
00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,600
just experiment with it. Also, just give give Nicholas Claxton

250
00:11:29,639 --> 00:11:32,360
the ball and like let him run inverted picking rolls.

251
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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, give him the Jaron Jackson season where it's

252
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,720
just like dry a bunch of stuff and see if

253
00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:39,039
you can do it, because eventually, if we're good again,

254
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,000
that'll be a bonus.

255
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,519
Speaker 1: I'm kind of just excited from a productive chaos perspective

256
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,120
because Sean Marx is back in his bag of we

257
00:11:47,159 --> 00:11:48,960
don't we well now they have their own picks, but

258
00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:50,840
like he's back in his bag of the team. That

259
00:11:50,879 --> 00:11:52,440
was the most fun in Brooklyn was when him Kenny

260
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,679
Akinson were there. They didn't have any of their own

261
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,679
picks at the time, but they were just rebuilding from

262
00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,399
the ground up and they knew how to experiment and

263
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,919
hit there. So I am fascinated by the team. But

264
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,759
this isn't a question. They were going to win fewer

265
00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:03,720
than thirty two games.

266
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Speaker 2: I agree, all right, I would like to select the

267
00:12:06,799 --> 00:12:10,440
Orlando Magic because this was one that I struggled a

268
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,759
lot with, partly because I went through this in my

269
00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:16,000
notes and did it alphabetically, and I got to Orlando,

270
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,159
which is like the fourth to last team, and I

271
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looked back up and I was like, I got almost

272
00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,600
everybody getting better. So some somewhere I got it's kind

273
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,360
of like when you're doing over unders and you end

274
00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:29,399
up with like two hundred more total wins than you

275
00:12:29,399 --> 00:12:31,960
should have. I started to feel that way right around here.

276
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,320
So forty seven last year, like i'd say, a mildly

277
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,720
surprising but not shocking level of growth over the year before,

278
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,440
just because of the youth on the roster. You know,

279
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,000
it was foreseeable that Orlando would get a lot better.

280
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I just think maybe I'm getting to the point where

281
00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:53,639
I have too many teams improving, not sold. We love

282
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,279
the KCP acquisition, However, I think we both agree that

283
00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:01,080
it kind of wasn't It was disappointing that it wasn't

284
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,840
enough on its own because what they need and this

285
00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:06,279
is really your take that I'm that I'm hijacking, like

286
00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:09,440
you needed more of a guy who's going to create shots,

287
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,039
like a facilitator, a floor general like that kind of thing.

288
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,840
So maybe maybe we've overvalued the KCP addition to some extent.

289
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,919
And I'm looking too poke holes because I want to say,

290
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,559
I'm gonna say worse. And maybe that's forty six wins,

291
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,600
and I realize how crazy that seems because they made

292
00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:29,919
such a leap and there's so much youth here. I

293
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,559
just you know, maybe Jonathan Isaac's not as healthy. Maybe

294
00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:35,960
I don't know, Jalen Suggs regresses as a shooter. I'm

295
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,080
just looking for ways because I do think sometimes when

296
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,279
a team makes a jump like this, there's a little

297
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:43,519
bit of pullback, kind of like what people expected from

298
00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,159
the Thunder last year. Which that's a terrible example, because

299
00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:49,480
if Orlando goes the Thunder route, they're gonna win four

300
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,759
hundred games. But can I talk you into that at all?

301
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,559
And I'm very much prepared to be talked out of

302
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,720
this because on its face, it's kind of wild to

303
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,080
say a young team's gonna get worse.

304
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,000
Speaker 1: I would frame it this way, shock me if they

305
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,159
won fewer than forty seven games. But I think you

306
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,360
because you're looking at the landscape of the East and

307
00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:06,799
the teams that are in front of them, I would

308
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,000
say all of them are still going to be in

309
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,279
front of them, because like Milwaukee and Cleveland didn't have

310
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,240
the best health and they still finished with more wins

311
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,519
than the Magic. The Knicks got better, and the Boston's

312
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,320
just Boston. So you have Indy, I would say, and

313
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,799
then Philly as the teams below of them. That's like, oh,

314
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,639
we could envisioned both of them winning more games, healthier

315
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,000
Tyres Haliburt and him and Siakam getting to go through

316
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,120
a training camp together. I'm still going to go better,

317
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:33,399
I think because the stuff that you laid out, it

318
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,799
all makes sense. But like, are we really going to

319
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,559
predict that everything goes wrong, that Jalen Subs regresses as

320
00:14:38,559 --> 00:14:41,720
a shooter, that Ben Caro gets even less efficient or

321
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,080
doesn't improve his efficiency, that KCP doesn't do anything to

322
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,759
help the floor spacing. And I keep coming back to

323
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:51,080
this is that they had the second best defense in

324
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,840
the league last year, and that defense got better yea

325
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:57,759
with Kennavis called low Pope. And so even if their

326
00:14:57,799 --> 00:15:01,320
offense is still not up to snuff, I still look

327
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,000
and here's the things that the three things that sell

328
00:15:04,039 --> 00:15:07,799
me on the offensive end is that Pallo evolving and

329
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,720
becoming more efficient, Froanz Wagner not shooting zero percent from

330
00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:14,679
three or whatever it was on jumpers. Really, although he

331
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,639
did play in the Olympics, is he going to be

332
00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:18,879
taught like he's played a lot of basketball lately. And

333
00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:21,840
then Jalen Suggs continuing to get better at least staying

334
00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:23,480
on the same track. So even if you think all

335
00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:26,039
those things aren't gonna happen, at least one or two

336
00:15:26,039 --> 00:15:28,960
of them probably is. Because these are talented players. They're

337
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,519
not no names. And the other thing that I don't

338
00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:34,559
think we can discount here is even if they don't

339
00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:37,840
want to go bigger game hunting, there's just a variable

340
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,799
level of moves they could, Like, if they want to,

341
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,000
I think they can go out right now and trade

342
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,080
for LaMelo Ball. They have a package that could get

343
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,000
them that. But they could also be like, well, you know,

344
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,960
we're more interested in and Frey Simon's or Colin Sexton

345
00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:51,759
or Malcolm Brogden. They can do all of those things

346
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,480
and just get exponentially better to varying degrees, of course,

347
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,279
and I think they will at some point make a

348
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,639
move unless they're way better than expected, in which cases

349
00:16:00,679 --> 00:16:02,120
isn't even a conversation anymore.

350
00:16:02,279 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think you swayed me. I

351
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,360
just as a general practice is probably not a good

352
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:08,679
idea to start from the premise of I need to

353
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,840
decide how to make say this team will be worse

354
00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:13,000
and then reverse engineer from there. But you are going

355
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:14,879
to need to talk me out of somebody being better,

356
00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:17,120
because I don't know what your board looks like. But

357
00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:20,600
I got way too many teams getting better right your.

358
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,480
Speaker 1: Time, as they didn't like go that deep into it.

359
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,759
But by the way, I think everything you said is

360
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:26,879
just perfectly valid and the thing I would worry about,

361
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,720
like Jealen Sugs and Franz Vadner are very good, but

362
00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:32,320
there's still an iffiness for me to them on the

363
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,000
offensive end, and so we'll just we'll see how it

364
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,559
pans out. But the magic one and they got better,

365
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,480
like just objectively on paper, the Isaac health stuff is

366
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,799
good because he wasn't like playing a ton of minutes

367
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,879
last year, and yet it's well, can you count him

368
00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:47,960
to play that much? But if you can roll if

369
00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:51,639
in the minutes that you play, Suggs, Isaac and Kentavious

370
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:54,759
called bo Pope together, good luck fucking scoring. Yeah. As

371
00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:59,000
the other team, Oh it's my turn, I'm like waiting

372
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,840
for you to like bisc doing anything. I'm actually I

373
00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:04,359
don't know if this team will be quick. But let's

374
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,279
go to the Chicago Bulls Grant.

375
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: They don't know if it will be quick.

376
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,039
Speaker 1: They won last year. They won thirty nine games, which

377
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,720
I just assume was their goal because like, that's that's

378
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:15,359
what the Bulls do.

379
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 2: Mission accomplished. We did it.

380
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:21,559
Speaker 1: DeMar de Rosen and Alex Caruso are gone, and incomes

381
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,440
Josh Giddy, incomes Jalen Smith, Andre Drummond gone. That doesn't

382
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,319
get that, like that's another player they probably should have

383
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:29,880
gotten some seconds for, and they just you know, decided

384
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,799
to let them leave uh grant better or worse. And honestly,

385
00:17:34,839 --> 00:17:37,559
if I could hijack it, I wouldn't say what they're

386
00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:40,039
doing is competent at the moment, but I do think

387
00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:43,359
it at least suggests they are looking at the bigger picture.

388
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,519
I don't know if they have the right angle, because

389
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:50,279
literally the two biggest losses that they had they went

390
00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:53,519
about it. I would have prioritized picks rather than Josh Giddy.

391
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,119
I would have done something to my books. Is it

392
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,200
stretched the mellow ball? Involve a third team? Why are

393
00:17:59,279 --> 00:18:02,640
you getting the twenty thirty one Sacramento Kings pick swap

394
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,359
when you're giving up tomar derozen because your books were

395
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:06,359
structured improperly?

396
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 2: Fix it right? Because they didn't want to take on

397
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,359
Harrison Barnes, basically right like that was that was they

398
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,680
didn't want that money, which is like insane, like that

399
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,119
month taking on that money would have been worth way

400
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,160
more than worth it to get that pick. So I'm

401
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,000
going worse. This was not that easy for me. I

402
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,200
think the crucial question that you kind of touched on

403
00:18:25,319 --> 00:18:29,039
is is, like, do the losses of Caruso, de Rozen

404
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:33,599
and Drummond, which are like not like not insignificant, can

405
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,480
those be offset at all by Zach Lavine playing more,

406
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,440
by Patrick Williams playing more by maybe Kobe White getting

407
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,640
a little better by maybe I would assume move getting

408
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,759
a little better by maybe Modus Bizellis being like a

409
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:50,559
positive impact rookie. Probably probably not like that would be

410
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,799
all those things would have to go right for the

411
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:55,759
Bulls to like just break even, and then we're still

412
00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:58,039
looking for ways to like, how are they gonna be

413
00:18:58,039 --> 00:19:00,279
better than they were last year? I don't, I don't

414
00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:04,640
really see it. I think that they're sort of embracing

415
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,359
reality and acting a little more sane in the way

416
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,119
that they're building the team, which means that they will

417
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,519
trade Vucevic and Levine if they can. They're not going

418
00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:18,759
to go target someone that's going to try. You know,

419
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,279
they're not going to chase this thirty nine to forty

420
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,200
three win range. I don't think so. I like, I

421
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,920
don't know what the number would have had to been

422
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,240
for me to say better, Like if it was thirty

423
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:33,920
three thirty four, I could see them accidentally winning more

424
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,519
than that. But just because I think, like White's good,

425
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:38,680
what's a good player like Patrick Williams might be a

426
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,680
helpful player, Like they have those balls.

427
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 1: Just healthy and playing for them too, need the driver

428
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:44,759
of their success. Back in twenty he was at twenty one,

429
00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:47,759
twenty two, so he was a primary driver, there was

430
00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:51,079
obviously other factors involved, So I just think I don't

431
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,079
trust them, But I I like, even if they let

432
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,680
everyone stay on this roster, the pathway to them being

433
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,960
better is just feels too difficult. To thirty nine wins

434
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,000
when you look at this roster is a lot. And also,

435
00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:06,759
I do think having Josh Giddy immediately mitigates the value

436
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,279
of so many like of Kobe White not gonna use

437
00:20:09,319 --> 00:20:10,960
his many on ball looks probably, And if you think

438
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,400
they're gonna figure out a way to make it work

439
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,480
with him, okay, with an Io disson Wu or Zach

440
00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:17,519
Lavine or Patrick Williams is good like or modest buzzellis like,

441
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:19,319
you're not gonna have the same level freedom and experiment

442
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,640
on offense. I don't trust that they're gonna end up

443
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,960
moving all these guys. But if if we're running this team,

444
00:20:24,279 --> 00:20:26,720
it's not just give Zack Lavine up. By the way,

445
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,400
you know what would completely make me do a one

446
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,720
to eighty on the Lakers offseason, even if this happens

447
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,000
in the middle of the years, that if they just trade

448
00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:34,240
salary filler and no picks for Zach Lavine, I'll end

449
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:37,440
up being like you know what, they fuck perfectly and

450
00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:40,720
aside though they should be moving Kobe White and Io

451
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:43,160
dis Soon MoU h and Patrick William should absolutely be

452
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,960
on the block once he's trade eligible, because the value

453
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,880
specifically of White and dis Soon moo, it's never gonna

454
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,440
be higher than it is right now because they're gonna

455
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,000
sign more expensive contracts at some point. Neither of them

456
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,680
are making enough to be extended. Even in sort of

457
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,240
this extension happy market right now, they're gonna win fewer,

458
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:00,920
and I guess that's a vote like Bulls fans should

459
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,839
be happy about that because, by the way, they have

460
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,400
an incentive if they're not let's say they're not on

461
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,599
a thirty nine like, if they're not on a thirty

462
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,160
nine win pace and able to get in the plane,

463
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,200
they're gonna want to lose because they owe that pick

464
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,000
to San Antonio with top ten protection next year. So

465
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,599
I honestly think I'll frame it this way. I think

466
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,319
they're more likely to be closer to the teams than

467
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,039
they are to thirty five wins.

468
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I could. I mean that should be the goal,

469
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,839
right like that, that should be the hope and the

470
00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:30,599
goal that they're down there like flirting with the bottom three,

471
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,759
bottom four record at the end of the year. All right,

472
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,720
let's go all the way to Yeah, that's too easy,

473
00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:39,839
let's say let's save that for later. I would like

474
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:45,240
to nominate the Milwaukee Bucks forty nine wins a year ago,

475
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,400
and I would just befo. I'm gonna throw to you

476
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,119
for the leadoff prediction here with a stat that I'm

477
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,440
sure you're aware of. When Milwaukee's best four guys were

478
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,119
on the floor together last year, Lillard, Jannis, Middle and

479
00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:04,839
Lopez plus sixteen point three. That's a stupid net rating.

480
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,319
That's like Jokic, you know, with the starting five net

481
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,319
rating type of thing for Denver. And it was a

482
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,920
huge positive actually in two of the three cases, even

483
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:18,359
higher than plus sixteen point three per hundred. Whether it

484
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,960
was Malik Beasley as the fifth guy, whether it was

485
00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:23,559
Andre Jackson Junior as the fifth guy, whether it was

486
00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:25,880
Patrick Beverly, all three of those guys when playing with

487
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,720
the other four, like, there's a plus twenty something in there,

488
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,400
there's a plus thirty something in there. I think Gary

489
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,839
Trent Junior can handle that fifth spot as well or

490
00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:36,559
better than all three of those guys. So this comes

491
00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:39,240
down to how often can that unit be on the floor,

492
00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:41,680
and Doc Rivers, going back to the Clipper days, just

493
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:44,599
loves to play his best guys together all the time

494
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,319
and just tank in those reserve minutes. I think this

495
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,680
is a team that's kind of set up to just

496
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,240
bank huge with like positive margins with those guys out there.

497
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,559
Health questions abound. But are you saying better or worse.

498
00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:02,359
I'm obvious he's gonna say they're gonna be better, But

499
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,279
I would agree.

500
00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: With you, and I don't really have anything to add

501
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:07,440
other than like, I think that they can get to

502
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,400
a point where they're staggering and still being fine too,

503
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,480
like some of the minutes where it's like if you

504
00:23:12,519 --> 00:23:14,119
don't have Brook Lopez on the court, like they had

505
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,960
some lineups that really killed, and so I think they

506
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,640
can get the different situations. I do worry about Chris

507
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,279
Middleton's ankles. It is just on this weird trend where

508
00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:23,240
it's like he gets injured, it takes them a while

509
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,920
to ramp up, and then he's really good just in

510
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,880
time for them going to lose early in the playoffs,

511
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:29,640
and so that's something to monitor. But the other thing

512
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,279
I don't think you mentioned this, unless I missed it,

513
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,640
maybe a little shot like thirty three percent on catching

514
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,279
shoot threes last year. You don't think he's not getting better.

515
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,640
That is never gonna happen again. And so now you

516
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,519
get to go through another training camp with him and

517
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:43,759
Giannis and he's more settled than Milwaukee. He's talked a

518
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:46,119
lot about the mental toll of moving. You can make

519
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,480
fun of him for it if you want, but that's

520
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,960
like a real thing and it shouldn't be as big

521
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,839
of a factor this year. The thing with this team,

522
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,319
by the way, they did slick work on the margins.

523
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,359
Forget even just even before they had Gary trans Junior,

524
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,079
getting Torriy and Prince and Delon Wright absolutely just massive

525
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:03,720
wins for the organization. I don't know how you feel

526
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,920
about their draft. I wasn't super high on it, but

527
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,000
like getting players who can contribute now, Dlawn Right, Tory,

528
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,599
prison Gary tren Junior all fill rotation spots like they

529
00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:14,240
can play in a playoff rotation, I would argue, so

530
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,279
I think they'll better. They should be in the fifties.

531
00:24:17,319 --> 00:24:19,200
And look, they have the cushion because we saw it

532
00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:21,160
last year for some of their guys to miss time,

533
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,319
and they'll they'll still they're still get there. I do

534
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,519
worry about the lack of overall athleticism on this team

535
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:29,559
now in point of attack, defense is probably still going

536
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,640
to be an issue even with Gary Trent Junior, because

537
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,400
I assume that like Delon Wright can probably handle it,

538
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,680
but you are conceding a lot offensively at that point,

539
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:40,279
So they do have some questions to answer. But like

540
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:42,799
this team, if they're even relatively healthy, I would just

541
00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:44,519
think that they're going to have like fifty two to

542
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:45,319
fifty three wins.

543
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're gonna say they're gonna be worse, it's

544
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,400
got to be based on Middleton is just like this

545
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:53,240
is finally the injury that Middleton just can't overcome, Like

546
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:55,359
he can't even be effective in short since and that

547
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,200
Lopez who was kind of approaching the cliff it felt

548
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,319
like at times last year, really like go all the

549
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,160
way over it at his age. I just I'm with you.

550
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,519
I think I think there's enough top end talent and

551
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,559
just like, yeah, the heist of Trent Junior, right, Prince

552
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:11,880
and Portis are like a pretty narn good six seven

553
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,799
eight in terms of rotation pieces. So I think I

554
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:16,839
think there's more than enough here to get over fifty.

555
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: It is my turn to pick for you, uh who

556
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,960
don't want to pick? I honestly, this team confuses the

557
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,079
hell out of me. So we're gonna go to the

558
00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:26,079
Miami Heat.

559
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:27,799
Speaker 2: Oh good. Yeah, this was a really hard one for

560
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:28,200
me too.

561
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: Forty six wins, right, I forgot.

562
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: It's like it didn't seem like last year was such

563
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,119
a like failure for them, and then you look for they.

564
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:37,799
Speaker 1: Actually won more games than they did the year that

565
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,319
they made it to the finals. Then look, they had

566
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,559
stuff going on. The Kayla Martin, who's gone not fully healthy,

567
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:46,759
Jimmy Butler dealt with stuff, Terror's year was injured by

568
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:49,000
the end of the year, Tyler hero missed time list

569
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:51,720
continues to go on. I just I don't know how

570
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,680
to square away with what they did. I thought they

571
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,759
hit a home run with keeping Hayward Highsmith at the

572
00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:59,200
money they did, but they did lose Kayleb Martin. Everyone

573
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,920
loves Coyle Way and is very high on him. Hawks.

574
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:04,960
I just I have no idea what to make of

575
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,440
this team right now.

576
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,319
Speaker 2: I kind of orlandoed this one too, where I was

577
00:26:09,319 --> 00:26:11,839
just looking for teams to get worse, and I am

578
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,960
going to say that the heater gonna get worse if

579
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,400
that happens. I think it's like forty four forty five wins,

580
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,839
which should not feel like an affront because, like you said,

581
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,319
they were down lower than that two years ago when

582
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,240
they made the finals, So that doesn't foreclose on the

583
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:26,960
possibility that they just you know, go on a run.

584
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,599
But like so you you mentioned Martin, I think that's

585
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,920
a that's a significant loss if you were going to

586
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,720
say they're going to be better, right like because he

587
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,799
was hurt last year, and I think Kyle Lowry's departure

588
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,440
is like not nothing. I think Tyler Hero, how many

589
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,799
games is he going to play? Missed half the season

590
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,839
last year? Jimmy Butler played sixty. Is Jimmy Butler at

591
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,559
the point where you cannot feel confident in saying, oh,

592
00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:53,799
he'll play more than sixty games, Like, I don't know,

593
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,559
I think.

594
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: That contractor or Jimmy Butler maybe.

595
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,839
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, maybe, But then that cuts the other way too,

596
00:26:59,839 --> 00:27:02,240
of like how pissed off is he gonna be? Like probably,

597
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:04,480
since it's him, he means he's gonna play really well,

598
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,240
but he's just got the mileage of someone that, like,

599
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:10,119
I don't know, it's sixty games. If you get over

600
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,400
under sixty games played for Jimmy Butler, are you taking

601
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,359
the over I'll think the over all, right, I'm not

602
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:15,680
that good.

603
00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:18,279
Speaker 1: I think the bigger issue is will he just be

604
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,640
as good right as No, he's gonna be thirty five

605
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,759
when the season tips off, that is not That is

606
00:27:23,839 --> 00:27:26,240
not young, folks speaking as a thirty five year old

607
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,759
that ain't young. So I like, that's a question. I

608
00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:32,880
do think if Bam is really like into the three

609
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,279
point volume, I'm not saying taking five attempts a game,

610
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:38,079
but like just comfortable spacing out to the corners, I

611
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:39,599
think you can get to some insuring lines with him

612
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,680
and coleel Ware, who from what I saw of his

613
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:44,720
Rookie League film, like that he might end up being

614
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,079
a monster defensively, and like that just might be the

615
00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:49,400
pathway to getting the better units we've seen them experiment

616
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,519
with kind of dual bigs in the past. I'm not

617
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:54,319
saying that's the only recipe for them to get there,

618
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,160
but I could envision them being better. If you tell

619
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,640
me Tyler heroes healthier Bam is shooting threes. Harry Roziers

620
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,960
lasting the whole season. Okay maybe, and the alb Burk

621
00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:06,559
signing was good at the minimum, but you have to

622
00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:10,720
go worse here. It's just not like they lost a

623
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:13,680
very valuable rotation piece and they just don't have like, hey, okay,

624
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,559
you have him Hawkis, but is he gonna do enough

625
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:17,839
for you offensively to just you're not gonna miss Kayla

626
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,480
Martin at all. Or and even if Imy Hawkins was

627
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,319
getting better, it wasn't just like you had depth to

628
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,279
spare or beck to the depth to spare at that point.

629
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,599
So it's a tough number. It wouldn't shock me if

630
00:28:28,599 --> 00:28:31,079
they won forty seven forty eight, but I think too

631
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,240
many things need to break right for them to get there.

632
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,440
And I will say I continue to like even they

633
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,960
have Tyler Tyler Hero, they have Terry Rozier, or they

634
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,720
have Bam, they have Jimmy, I just know so many

635
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:41,519
questions about.

636
00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:44,759
Speaker 2: Their offense, right, Yeah, pretty high variance, Like they could

637
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,279
win fifty four games and you'd be like, yeah, okay,

638
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:49,720
well that I guess Yovich popped and I guess Hawkes

639
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,319
actually did continue to get better. Maybe high Smith like

640
00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:55,039
solidify and like proves he's actually that kind of a

641
00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:58,400
three point shooter. But yeah, it really is just like

642
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,200
there's too many like if he like make or break

643
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,680
things that have to go right to get over to

644
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,119
get to forty seven, Like that's not a low total.

645
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,359
So I'm uncomfortable with it, but I'm glad we kind

646
00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:13,640
of got to the same spot there, and I think

647
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,039
it's my turn. Okay, let's we got to start picking

648
00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:18,119
off some of these really low totals. Let's do the

649
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:24,359
Detroit Pistons a whopping fourteen NBA basketball victories last season,

650
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,440
just quick, Like, overlook here, it is really hard to

651
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,920
be that bad twice in a row unless you're the

652
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,240
process sixers, and Detroit is not taking that kind of approach.

653
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:37,839
I don't think it doesn't seem that way based on

654
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,359
how they've transacted now new management. You never know, we

655
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,359
talked several times about how like Thistru, this new power

656
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:47,279
structure is not married to any of these picks except

657
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,440
for the most recent one. So like, you know, if

658
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,480
you are concerned about getting a year from now to

659
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:54,799
the point where it's like what do we do with

660
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,799
Jalen Duran and Jade and Ivy extension wise, like maybe

661
00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:00,799
you do look to move those guys. I don't know

662
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,440
that that's the right move yet, but that's on the table.

663
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: It also doesn't can if I can interact, moving those

664
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,440
guys doesn't make you worse.

665
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,559
Speaker 2: It might not, it might not. Yeah that's the thing.

666
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,839
Uh so I'm going better. Uh just like I kind

667
00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:19,039
of like the Beasley ad, the Harris ad. I think

668
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:23,240
Paul Reid helps get a full season of Simoni Fontechio,

669
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:27,559
Kay Cunningham arrived, I think can continue to get better.

670
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,000
Fourteen is just so low right, like you just they're

671
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:30,920
gonna be better than that.

672
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: And if they're not, I'm curious as to like what

673
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:37,799
it's what what are the moves or the nightmare scenarios

674
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:39,759
in which they're worse. I guess Kay gets injured again

675
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:42,480
and yeah, like Jay Nivy doesn't develop and you're suddenly

676
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:44,480
you just don't really have anyone to run the offense.

677
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:48,240
I think why also think they're gonna be better? Is

678
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,680
they just have I'm not super I don't say I'm

679
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,160
not super high. I guess I'm not super intune like

680
00:30:54,279 --> 00:30:57,839
what this roster is supposed to actually accomplish, but like

681
00:30:58,119 --> 00:31:00,359
you can get to some really interesting defensive line if

682
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:02,079
you want to play a Star Thompson and Ron Holland

683
00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:04,599
together and hopefully a sar Thompson's healthy after dealing with

684
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,200
those blood clots. And the other thing is okay, we

685
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,079
talk a lot about the redundancies of some of the

686
00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:11,200
main play like a sar Thompson, Ron Holland, even Jay

687
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,920
and Ivy and the ball dominant or the lack of

688
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,440
shooting there. They have spacing on this team. Now they

689
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,000
got Molik Beasley, they brought into Bias Harris, who could

690
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,400
still be a floor spacer. You still have Isaiah Stewart,

691
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,480
Simoni Fontachio you resigned. You have Tim Hardaway junior, who's

692
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,039
gonna take a bunch of shots you don't want him to,

693
00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:28,279
but in theory he will space the floor. So I

694
00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:30,640
think the fact that you can get to lineups more

695
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,839
easily where it's Caid plus at least three shooters, then

696
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,240
I feel like you're just gonna win closer to twenty

697
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:40,599
something games by virtue of that.

698
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: And not just for Cunningham. But like you know, this

699
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:45,200
is a very this is very much to me approve

700
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,640
it season for Jay and Ivy and you can I

701
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,359
mean he's he's like less so than Caid, Like he's

702
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,079
someone that you got. You put Beasley out there with

703
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,839
I don't know, Beasley Harris or Beasley Fontechio beef stew

704
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,880
Like there's he needs the shooting because like the only

705
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,440
real NBA skill. He's shown his the ability to get

706
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,359
to the basket quickly, and if you can space the

707
00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:06,640
floor for him, maybe you set him up to succeed

708
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:08,839
so you can at least although this has kind of

709
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:10,440
been the theory of the Pistons for a couple of

710
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,599
years now of like let's get veterans of space because

711
00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:14,960
it'll help our non shooting guards and our and our

712
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,000
shooting guards. I think it just makes a little more sense.

713
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,079
It's easier for me to see it like kind of

714
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:24,599
functioning how they've intended this year. But again, this is

715
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,160
all like they're not gonna win thirteen games, which is

716
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,200
what you'd have to believe for you to go lower.

717
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,640
So this is just better by default.

718
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,039
Speaker 1: This is I mean, yeah, that's an easy one, my

719
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,640
turn for you. I think this one's a well, it's

720
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,079
a more interesting one. I don't know if it's an

721
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:40,519
easy one. But the Charlotte Hornets are coming off twenty

722
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:44,079
one victories, mister Grant Hughes, I have them penciled in

723
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:47,880
as better in part because I think that people forget

724
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,920
that they have competent NBA players on the roster. It's

725
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,759
just they were so injured the past couple of years.

726
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:55,720
And unless you think that they're also going to trade

727
00:32:55,759 --> 00:32:59,240
lamellow Ball and or Miles Bridges, what is the pathway

728
00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:03,400
aside from if you want to predict a catastrophic or

729
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,039
over significant level of injuries. Okay, fine, go ahead and

730
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:08,039
do that. Like, they just have a lot of NBA

731
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:11,279
players if you go into their rotation, and I did.

732
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:13,519
I recorded something on the hornet specifically a couple of

733
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:15,759
weeks ago, so I thought about it. They have just

734
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:19,960
a bunch of NBA players across like ten spots. Probably

735
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:22,599
I mean LaMelo, Brandon Miller, Josh Green, Miles Bridges, Mark

736
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,839
Williams is probably your starting lineup. I actually think Josh

737
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,359
Green is overrated in the sense that I don't like

738
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,279
his contract and a lot of people don't seem to

739
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:32,319
care about it. And Charlotte kind of treated them like

740
00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:35,720
not an asset but a flyer. But then off the bench,

741
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:38,839
Vasili Amicich, Seth Curry, Cody Martin who if he's healthy,

742
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,880
goddamn Grant Williams who played well for them, Nick Richard's

743
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,880
solid backup big and what does t John Salon turn into?

744
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,559
And they also do have Trade Mann, He's always had

745
00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:49,279
some wiggle to him. If they're healthy, I don't know.

746
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:51,440
I'm gonna definitely say that they're gonna be a team

747
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,200
that contends for the play in, but you also just

748
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,880
don't have the sample size to go off of. They

749
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,680
turned over their roster at the deadline. Even just looking

750
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,279
at players who are on their roster all season, LaMelo Ball,

751
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,079
Brandon Miller, Mark Williams and Miles Bridges played a whopping

752
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,440
seven possessions together without Terry Rozier or Gordon Hayward on

753
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,400
the floor. And so it's just like, we don't have

754
00:34:12,519 --> 00:34:14,880
the sample of this team to go off of, which

755
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,039
I think works in their favor because they weren't terrible

756
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:22,159
last year while having everyone they were terrible. I'd look,

757
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,079
LaMelo is the thing that ties it all together. And

758
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,199
if you want to read into small samples again, Terry

759
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,920
Rozier minutes and Gordon Hayward minutes are taped into here,

760
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,119
LaMelo ball, Mark Williams, Miles Bridges, and Brandon Miller last

761
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,239
year plus twelve point one points per one hundred possessions

762
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,880
as a net rating, and they only played I think

763
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,719
it was one hundred and twenty or whatever it was.

764
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,920
So like, there's just the baseline of a competent team here,

765
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:46,840
and I, you know, I tend to be higher on

766
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,960
the mel than consensus. If he's just gonna be healthy

767
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,559
and you get progress from Brandon Miller, I think this

768
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:55,079
is a team that will probably make the play.

769
00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 2: In Yeah, I think I would have said better even

770
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,199
if you'd told me LaMelo's going to play thirty games,

771
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,000
just because you got Mark Williams played nineteen, Cody Martin

772
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,639
played twenty eight, Josh Green wasn't there, Brandon Miller was

773
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:15,199
a rookie in a role that was way bigger than

774
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:17,719
anyone expected him to have to play with that level

775
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,800
of experience, the fact that LaMelo probably will play more

776
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,280
than thirty games, and just it's you know, I don't know,

777
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,280
I don't know how confident I'd be going quite as

778
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,719
high as like, oh, they're a playing team, but it's

779
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,199
more likely to me that they are a playing team

780
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,039
than they're in the twenties. How about like I think

781
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:35,960
they're getting to thirty in their sleep.

782
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, there's going to be an accidental playing

783
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,039
team in the sure because Brooklyn, Washington, Detroit, and I'm

784
00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:46,039
gonna throw Chicago in there, like, those are teams that

785
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:47,599
aren't going to be interested in doing it. And so

786
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:50,840
if you're Toronto or Charlotte and you want to take

787
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,119
the lot like what he's making the play in right.

788
00:35:54,519 --> 00:35:56,199
Speaker 2: Nothing you can do about it, whether you want to

789
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,679
or not, you're gonna be in there. Yeah, I think

790
00:35:57,679 --> 00:35:59,960
that's right. I think that's right. Okay, that was fairly

791
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,320
easy for me. Well you mentioned him, Let's go Toronto

792
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,440
because that's another team that's projected pretty low. Here. I

793
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,800
so twenty five wins for the Raptors last year. This

794
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,880
is another one that like, I was kind of shocked

795
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,199
that the total was that low. Maybe I shouldn't have been,

796
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:17,159
but I just didn't remember them being quite that bad.

797
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:19,199
I I you know, I guess they were very much

798
00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:21,800
like two different teams last year. So that's part of it.

799
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,199
And in fact, UH just filter the basically season performance

800
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,400
to after mid February. So let's just say you know,

801
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,159
basically post trade deadline, kind of post All Star break territory,

802
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,400
worst point differential in the league for Toronto. So H

803
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,719
does and also know Scotty Barnes at that from I

804
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,920
think almost all of that right. I forget exactly when

805
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,880
he went out, but but that was that was a

806
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:44,360
big deal.

807
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,679
Speaker 1: So between him and Jalen Johnson missing games, I was

808
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:49,519
a bummer for my most improved player battles.

809
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 2: Most improved really went through it last year. It really struggled.

810
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,519
So maybe does Barnes Maybe here's the question, does Barnes

811
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,360
being back healthy with this kind of revamped you know

812
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:03,440
quickly Barrett Grady Dick's gonna play more? Does that make

813
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,440
enough of a difference to take what was the worst

814
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,280
point differential in the league for you know, two months

815
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:12,559
and get you over twenty five wins? I think so

816
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,079
I And again like their incentivized to not win a

817
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:17,920
lot of games. I just don't know how you steer

818
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,000
into the skid that hard to get down to twenty

819
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,079
four because I do think there's a fair amount of

820
00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:24,000
talent on this roster, and a lot of it actually

821
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,039
I think should get better. So where are you on them?

822
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,119
Speaker 1: Yeah? I went with better as well, and it actually

823
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:31,880
when I went into this, I thought they were gonna

824
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,199
be harder, but it was just like I looked at

825
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,000
the minutes they played with Barnes, Quickly, RJ and Yaka

826
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,400
Pertl last year they outscored teams by eleven point five

827
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,639
points per one hundred possessions.

828
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: That's a good lineup.

829
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: That's a good lineup, and I have questions about the

830
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:48,559
entire rest of their roster. I've come around on Grady

831
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:50,440
Dick with the clothes that he had to this season.

832
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,639
I don't know how much they're gonna lean under Kobe Walter.

833
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,679
What does Bruce Brown's role look like it feels like,

834
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,239
and how much is Kelly I'd like to see him

835
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,320
get to lineups like even space here lineup for Kelly

836
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,360
Olynyk is playing, but are those gonna hold up defensively?

837
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:07,800
So I basically have questions about everyone outside of their

838
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,519
top four, but like just having those top four together

839
00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:13,599
and then you know, Scotty Barnes is gonna get better.

840
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,599
I think at least one of Quickly and Barrett will

841
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:17,880
continue to improve. And if you buy into the shooting

842
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,599
and or finishing improvement of Barrett in Toronto. It's kind

843
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:25,760
of hard not to go over. My My concern would be,

844
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,599
does this become a team that decides, well, we're not

845
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:31,559
good enough to do anything special. The only person we're

846
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:34,440
actually married to on this roster is Scottie Barnes and

847
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,440
so oh look, Emmanuel Quickly's on the trade block in

848
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:40,559
January or something to see. So I just haven't ruled.

849
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,599
I would bet against it, just because the way they

850
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:46,360
prioritize Quickly in Barrett in the Ananobi trade. But I'm

851
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,679
also like, I don't think they're bolted down to anyone

852
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,119
except Scotty Barnes on this roster, and that if you're

853
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,159
Yaka Pearl. Of course, if you're Bruce Brown, but if

854
00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:56,719
you're em Manual Quickly, if you're r. J. Barrett, I like,

855
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,639
I think they would move them if they were offers,

856
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,719
like reasonable offers out there there for them.

857
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:04,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think another factor that we kind of touched

858
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:07,039
on for several other teams is just like if you're

859
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,239
if the Raptor's intention was to be like exceptionally bad,

860
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,320
that has to start at game one because the competition

861
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,639
for being that bad is pretty fierce between like the

862
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,239
Washington's even the Detroits, the Brooklyn's and we have to

863
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,079
include West teams too because we're just talking about lottery odds,

864
00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:26,960
like you know, the Blazers are going to be terrible, Utah,

865
00:39:27,079 --> 00:39:31,719
who knows, but could steer into it. Well, Toronto's a

866
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,280
little bit like that to me, because I mean a

867
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,440
little bit because like there's scenarios where you know, we

868
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:40,159
get it's like I don't know, it's mid December and

869
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,599
Toronto's like sixth in the east or something like you

870
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:44,840
know that that would be they'd be like, you know,

871
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,400
way over their heads at that point and no one

872
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,280
would expect that to continue. But but they could find

873
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,360
themselves in a position where it's like, man, we are

874
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:54,119
like we got to do something and I don't know

875
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:56,639
what that trade is or what who you shut down

876
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,400
to get a lot worse on purpose? And how much

877
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,280
sort of patients that would there would be for that

878
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,960
from guys like Barns and Quickly and whatever, guys that

879
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,199
think like, hey, I got a real roles now, like

880
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,760
it's my time, Like I want to show out. You're

881
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,559
telling me I gotta shut it down? Like that wouldn't

882
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,599
go over well. But they're they're just too good and

883
00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:18,719
they would have to try to the tank effort would

884
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,639
be like too egregious for this team for them to

885
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:23,239
get under twenty five. I think so, I think we're

886
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:27,159
in agreement there on on the over or better let's do.

887
00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:30,039
Speaker 1: I think this will be an easy one. Let's go

888
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:34,320
to Boston coming off just a monster sixty four win campaign,

889
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,840
and again we're talking binary wins and losses regular season only.

890
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:41,639
They will probably be my pick to win the title.

891
00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:44,280
They're not winning sixty four games again, and I think

892
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,920
you could point if you actually want to get into

893
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,679
an argument about it, There's two things that I'm going

894
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,239
to rest on. Porzingis probably isn't going to be playing

895
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,000
a bunch before twenty twenty five, and so that has

896
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:56,039
a trickle down effect on your big man rotation. You're

897
00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:59,039
relying on Luke Cornett for more minutes in the middle

898
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:01,320
of the season. You're lying on Nimus Cada for more

899
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,320
minutes in the middle of the season. The other thing,

900
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,320
so you just come off this championship run, granted it

901
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,840
wasn't a super fatiguing championship run, but like now you

902
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,519
have Jason Tatum, Derek White, Andrew Halliday are all on

903
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:17,159
the Olympic roster that is going probably as we record this,

904
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:18,840
they've not played the game to get to the gold

905
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,440
medal round, but they're probably going there. That's just a

906
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,400
lot of basketball for all these guys. And the other

907
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,880
thing is is, Okay, you won sixty four getting into

908
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,599
sixty fives, that's a lot of victories.

909
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: Well that's just like, yeah, I probably should have looked

910
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,280
this up, but like, what percentage of NBA teams historically

911
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,880
have won sixty five or more games in a season.

912
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,920
It's like vanishingly small. It's really really hard to be

913
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:46,880
that good over a season, I think, especially after the

914
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,880
strain of the long playoff run and the difficult summer

915
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,920
and stuff. So you kind of get into the non

916
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:55,880
analytical like maybe a little championship hangover, maybe a little

917
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,719
bit like we and this is a real thing. By

918
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,239
the way, they should know they don't need the number

919
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,440
one seed like that, I think, I think, much more

920
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,440
so than anybody else who might actually want it. In

921
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880
the East. The Celtics are like they should feel very

922
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,719
confident and this will cause cost them games probably that like,

923
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,719
we'll turn it on when we need to. I think

924
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,039
they are justified and feeling that way about themselves. The

925
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:19,559
other thing is not only porzingis like he's gonna miss

926
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:21,199
all that time, and I guarantee you they're going to

927
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,719
be super careful with him when he does come back

928
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,480
and is playing like he will play less minutes per

929
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,960
game and actual like there's no way he's going to

930
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,039
play back to back. Al Horford is a million years old.

931
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:34,719
He has to be played less, especially coming off that

932
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,559
deep run. So yeah, like there's just no like, what

933
00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:40,719
is the argument for them being better? Maybe flip it

934
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,119
and put it that way, like, how do you how

935
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:42,639
do you do.

936
00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:45,519
Speaker 1: That that the East is just not as good as

937
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:47,679
we expected that Let's look at the teams that have

938
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,119
some significant new additions where it's oh, like New York

939
00:42:51,159 --> 00:42:54,079
and Philadelphia are the same or worse. For some reason,

940
00:42:54,159 --> 00:42:56,400
it turns of New York really Mitchell Robinson's injured and

941
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,639
they really miss Isaiahrtstein or Philly Joelle and Be's injured again,

942
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:01,960
and that kind of goes off the rails from there.

943
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:06,079
That's really the Celtics are, on paper, the best team,

944
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:07,599
and the I think the Thunder are the only team

945
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:09,400
that has a reasonable case to be put over them

946
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,320
in any sort of best team in the league discussion

947
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,679
right now. But and they should honestly, they shouldn't care

948
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:17,480
about winning that Like it's just.

949
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,599
Speaker 2: You mentioned they don't need it. They don't need it,

950
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,039
so yeah, I just can't.

951
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: I would be what's more likely that Jalen Brown requests

952
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,320
a trade because he's mad that Derek White made the

953
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,400
Olympic roster, or that Boston wins sixty five games.

954
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: Like Jalen Brown trade request for sure because they just

955
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:33,440
they can't win.

956
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: See head, We could go to the real sports talk

957
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,480
show route and just be like, well, is there discord brewing?

958
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:40,719
Jalen Brown didn't seem happy, he blamed Nike.

959
00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:43,679
Speaker 2: This team ready to fall apart internally.

960
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,039
Speaker 1: Probably this is all to say they should be your

961
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:47,800
pick to come out of the Eastern Conference. I'm just

962
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,679
not betting on them to win sixty five plus game.

963
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, all right, let's do the Cleveland Cavaliers. I

964
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,519
would start by noting that this team won fifty five

965
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:01,880
games two years ago, and the roster is arguably better

966
00:44:02,159 --> 00:44:05,639
and perhaps more secure, because just about everybody who really

967
00:44:05,679 --> 00:44:09,360
matters has big new contracts and there's no more who's

968
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,000
gonna be here who's not got a new coach, probably

969
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,400
an upgrade. Their best four guys were plus two point

970
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,400
seven last year but played less than a thousand possessions.

971
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,679
They were plus ten point two and about twice that

972
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,800
many in twenty two twenty three. That's where those fifty

973
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,039
five wins came from. I think they're gonna be better.

974
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:30,559
I think they could be a lot better. I just

975
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,480
don't know unless you're gonna cite injuries, why you'd say

976
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,719
they're gonna win forty seven games or fewer.

977
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I and look, I think it might be fair

978
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,480
to cite injury at this point. Or if you point

979
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,039
to Darius Garland looking kind of awkward last year, maybe

980
00:44:43,039 --> 00:44:46,159
it wasn't kind of the byproduct of him getting hit

981
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:48,840
in the face every five seconds. So there are reasons

982
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,480
the dual big stuff are they gonna have to heavily stagger.

983
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:53,519
They probably will, and Kenny Atkinson will figure it out.

984
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:55,719
But like, they're not out of move jaredown could be

985
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,599
traded if it's not working out and they want to

986
00:44:57,639 --> 00:45:00,159
go to sort of put mobile as or full time

987
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:03,119
center type deal. They have so many options. But I

988
00:45:03,159 --> 00:45:05,239
still kind of believe that the top four can just

989
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,039
work out together because of what we saw in year

990
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:11,599
one when Evan Mobley was a worst version of himself

991
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,719
and like Darius Garland was better, but like Darius Garland

992
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,840
can get back to that point. So I think they'll

993
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,599
pretty easily be better. And I actually look at them

994
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:21,960
as the team. It feels like them in Milwaukee, but

995
00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:25,559
even more so them because we talked more collectively about

996
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,039
the Calves need to trade one of like so and

997
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:30,480
so or well, Donovanmage'll ask her out. It just feels

998
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,079
like they're being overlooked more than any could be contender should,

999
00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:35,840
and Milwaukee has some of that. Again, I feel like

1000
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,400
people have slept on but they're if Chris Middleton coming

1001
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,360
off ankle surgeries and just their guys are getting older.

1002
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:44,360
All of Cleveland's players aren't even in their prime yet

1003
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,440
or they're firmly in their prime, and so they're also

1004
00:45:46,559 --> 00:45:49,400
just like, have you ever seen the top four of

1005
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,320
a really good roster locked down for so long when

1006
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,599
there's only one contract as of right now that would

1007
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:58,880
be considered like not the twenty five percent max deal,

1008
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,599
and so like that, like they are built to sustain

1009
00:46:01,679 --> 00:46:03,679
if they're good too, which is kind of scary here.

1010
00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: I just think, like, even if you're not convinced that

1011
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,519
Atkinson will figure out ways to use all four guys

1012
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,400
that are better than Bickerstaff did, like the ill fit

1013
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,480
between Alan and Mobley and to some extent Garland and Mitchell,

1014
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:25,559
Like that's a playoff problem. That's not something that I

1015
00:46:25,559 --> 00:46:30,320
think kills you against you know, the bulls you know

1016
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,079
in January or whoever. Like, it's just it's a problem

1017
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:37,519
down the road, like I think, probably until Atkinson proves

1018
00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:41,920
it's not. But I'm not concerned about that stuff at

1019
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,440
all in terms of their regular season win total. If anything,

1020
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,760
it's a bonus just because we do know that Alan

1021
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,599
or Mobiley can be the loan big Garland or Mitchell

1022
00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:52,199
can be the lone play maker. Like that it all works.

1023
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, I think because the strides

1024
00:46:54,519 --> 00:46:57,400
Mobiley specifically made, I think during his loan big minutes

1025
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,880
without looking at the actual numbers, like just off of

1026
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:03,840
remembrance eye testing it, that's like now you could just say, oh, well, well,

1027
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,079
just now we know we're gonna have forty eight minutes

1028
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:08,559
of great play in the middle, and so we have

1029
00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:11,119
to heavily stagger them then, so be like you might

1030
00:47:11,199 --> 00:47:13,639
just be better balanced off for that. And I think

1031
00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:15,480
the real if you're trying to look for an issue

1032
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,559
with the core four, I think the problems will come

1033
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:19,719
when it comes to crunch time. Yea, And it's are

1034
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,599
we going one big like they did a lot of

1035
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:25,480
times last year. If if Garland and Mitchell aren't meshing

1036
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:28,360
and defensively like you're not necessarily holding up and there's

1037
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,360
a guy at the point of attack who's really like

1038
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,159
killing you, and who knows if Bicycle corrals on this roster,

1039
00:47:33,199 --> 00:47:34,800
maybe he'll resign by the time it comes out, or

1040
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,480
maybe Danny angelill do one of those late summer offsheets

1041
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:40,519
like he did for Paul Reid last year. So I

1042
00:47:40,559 --> 00:47:43,360
like that would be the level of concern, which is this.

1043
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,119
This feels like a fifty win team to me, And

1044
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:47,119
you could probably I probably look at four teams in

1045
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:49,840
the East and say, I think they're gonna win fifty games,

1046
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,320
and this would be one of them.

1047
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And just again, they've they've done it. They've won

1048
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,480
fifty with this team, you know, like two years ago.

1049
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:01,119
I just I just don't see how they barring injury obviously,

1050
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:02,719
you know, caveat every time.

1051
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: My turn for you, and I'm going to throw you

1052
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,440
the New York Knicks because I'm curious. We haven't done

1053
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,639
off season grades or anything yet, but I recorded a

1054
00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:12,280
pod with Nick's Film School. I've talked a lot on

1055
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,639
my own about how I feel about the Knicks offseason.

1056
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,519
Where are you at with a team that just finished

1057
00:48:17,559 --> 00:48:19,440
with the second best record in the Eastern Conference at

1058
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,039
fifty wins on the button.

1059
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: So I worry about breakdown fatigue coming off that that

1060
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,239
really tough, and not just postseason where they had a

1061
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,079
million injuries, but like down the stretch of the year

1062
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:32,719
when Duce McBride's playing forty six minutes a night for

1063
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,320
like two weeks straight, that concerns me. That said, the

1064
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,360
depth is just improved, Like Josh Hard and Dante DiVincenzo

1065
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,920
coming off the bench is like what a luxury? Like,

1066
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,079
I mean, what team wouldn't kill to have those be

1067
00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:47,239
their first two guys coming off the bench? Like those

1068
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,199
are clear starting players that you know so far have

1069
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,440
just proved that they can can take on that starting

1070
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,920
role when they need to. Having them as reserves against

1071
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,840
opposing backups is just like that's ridiculous. You know, the

1072
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,599
Randall and og stretch was like, oh my god, how

1073
00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:05,920
good is this team gonna be? If with these two

1074
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,360
guys and everybody else, you know, relatively healthy, I'm going better.

1075
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,079
But the thing that scares me the most more than

1076
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:16,239
the breakdown, more than the fatigue, which I'm sure you'll guess,

1077
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,400
it's just like, what's the center, you know, set up

1078
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:23,360
gonna look? Like? Can Mitchell Robinson be healthy? And if

1079
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,639
he's not, then like, are we just trusting that Tibbs

1080
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:29,280
will try Randall? There is og gonna be the guy

1081
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,719
that guards fives? I you know, maybe, but fifty is

1082
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,199
a decently high total. Even though I think this team

1083
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,760
on balance is like is quite a bit better and

1084
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,880
has a I don't know what we should maybe talk

1085
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,599
about their ceiling in terms of regular season wins, but like,

1086
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,400
if you got the kind of question marks they do

1087
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,159
at center, it does give me a little a little

1088
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:48,760
bit of pause.

1089
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,039
Speaker 1: And the other thing, too, is that I've argued I

1090
00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:55,920
think Julius Randall is more important to this team because

1091
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,159
of who they decided to cash all their trade chips into.

1092
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,679
It's that, Okay, could Mikal Bridges be your second best

1093
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:04,000
shot creator? Maybe? But what happened in Brooklyn. I think

1094
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:05,239
kind of proved we know he's not gonna be a

1095
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,079
number one, and it did watching him, it was just well,

1096
00:50:08,079 --> 00:50:10,400
if you need him to do shoulder a top two

1097
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:14,719
defensive burden, which the Knicks will, he's probably better off

1098
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,079
as the third option on your offense. And so if

1099
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:19,480
Julius Randall goes down again, you're in a situation where

1100
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:22,440
there's so much on Jalen Brunson once more, so does

1101
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,760
he break down or The other thing is this isn't

1102
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,440
an insult to Jalen Brunson. He just finished fifth in

1103
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:31,119
MVP voting. There's no guarantee that he's back there. Like,

1104
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:33,760
it's really hard to be at that level in consecutive seasons.

1105
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,000
I probably wouldn't have predicted. Maybe I did predict it

1106
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,719
for Shae Gilgers Alexander and maybe Jalen Brunson gets there.

1107
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,559
I've seen player rankings, a lot of people have him

1108
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:42,599
in the top seven right now. That feels like a

1109
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:45,039
little bit high for me in terms of value. Yeah,

1110
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:47,239
there's no question he's still that valuable to this roster.

1111
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:49,880
So there's just it feels like there's a bunch of

1112
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,079
stuff that could go wrong. Earlier where that stuff went

1113
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:55,679
wrong for them kind of later in the season, but

1114
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,639
it even went wrong earlier, like Mitch Robinson will probably

1115
00:50:58,679 --> 00:51:01,519
be healthier. And I think I'm more bullish on them

1116
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:05,280
being better because I love the Mchal Bridges fit. Obviously

1117
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,079
he fits anywhere. But I do believe that Tibbs is

1118
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:10,519
gonna get I think he's shown some lineup and functional

1119
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:13,079
flexibility over the past couple of seasons or season and

1120
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:16,079
a half, and so my prediction would be that we

1121
00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:19,719
do see ample minutes with Julius Randal and ogn and

1122
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,719
ob are trading off five responsibilities. Randall's the five on offense,

1123
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,280
OG's the five on defense. And look, if you get

1124
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,159
to those minutes like that unlocks Julius Randall in a

1125
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:32,159
way offensively that you like. I guess don't need to

1126
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,159
because we've seen him play this role for so long

1127
00:51:34,199 --> 00:51:37,400
and he's worked alongside Jalen Brunson just fine. But I

1128
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,199
actually think that's a pathway to getting a better version

1129
00:51:40,599 --> 00:51:42,599
of Julius Randall two. And I think you have the

1130
00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:46,360
personnel to look. Just do it during non Brunson minutes

1131
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,159
and say Randall, OG, We'll make sure Michel Bridges is

1132
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:51,800
on the floor during those stints too, and then just

1133
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,920
filled out like Duce McBride. You want defense, you want

1134
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,679
more defense, Put Josh Hard out there. This is a

1135
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,440
really good roster, and I think there's still some depth

1136
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,599
to them, even though there's natural concern at the five spot.

1137
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:06,000
So I think they should be in the mid fifties.

1138
00:52:07,039 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 2: I think that's right, and I wouldn't. I wouldn't, for

1139
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:12,760
like talking about ceiling if Brunston's healthy the whole year,

1140
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:17,840
and you know, just factoring like average injury rates across

1141
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,119
the rest of the roster, like this is a team

1142
00:52:20,159 --> 00:52:22,599
I could have because you know, Thibodeau and all the

1143
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:25,079
guys on this roster like play every game like you

1144
00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:28,679
know tomorrow the world's ending sixties. Not like it's a

1145
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,880
super high bar. I don't know what the percentage chance

1146
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,840
they hit it is, but like it exists for them,

1147
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,760
and that's not true for twenty five other teams. I don't.

1148
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: That don't make Andrew Claudio of Next Film School very

1149
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:39,719
happy if he's listening to this, because he said he

1150
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,920
thinks they could get sixty as well. I would say

1151
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,199
I wouldn't use that as my framing, but I do

1152
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,480
think They're more likely to finish with the best record

1153
00:52:47,519 --> 00:52:51,079
in the East than Milwaukee or Philly, just because those

1154
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:53,440
are teams that are not I mean, look at Philly's

1155
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,320
best players. They are a little bit older and Beads

1156
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,239
always missed time. And then just Milwaukee kind of the

1157
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,000
same difference. And those teams that are not gonna be

1158
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,480
as invested in getting it. We're Cleveland, Boston could stumble

1159
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:05,840
into it. That's why I'm not throwing them in the

1160
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,480
like say, all the Nicks are definitely gonna be put

1161
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:09,639
Like Cleveland, I could see them just going for it,

1162
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,440
but like Milwaukee and Philly, all right, the Knicks will.

1163
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 2: Yep, that's a big factor. All Right, we actually have

1164
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,679
I guess Orlando is our only mild disagreement. Let's just

1165
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:21,920
get the Wizards out of the way.

1166
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:23,559
Speaker 1: Rude.

1167
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 2: If fifteen wins last year, I'm going worse. And I

1168
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,599
just think this is probably the least talented roster in

1169
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:38,400
the league top to bottom by a decent margin. The

1170
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,519
guys you would cite as like, well, they'll kind of,

1171
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,760
you know, stabilize things. Valenciunis Brogden, those guys are trade ships.

1172
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,159
They are not gonna be there all season, I don't

1173
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:50,760
think and even if they are, like how much are

1174
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,000
they gonna play? How much should they play? This is

1175
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:54,920
my pick for the worst defense in the league. I'm

1176
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:59,199
pretty confident in that. I think they are gonna plays

1177
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,480
are a lot, and I think he is going to

1178
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:05,679
kill them. Uh and that's okay, just because you gotta

1179
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,599
see what you have with him. So it's a super

1180
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:12,199
low total. I just like I don't I don't think

1181
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,519
they want to and I don't think they can get

1182
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:16,119
much higher than fifteen wins.

1183
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, and I would say that at

1184
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:24,159
least two of the Malcolm Brogden, Corey Kissbert, Kyle Kuzma,

1185
00:54:24,519 --> 00:54:28,159
Jonas Valentiunis cluster of oh players that can help us

1186
00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:31,320
will not be on the roster by the trade deadline

1187
00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:34,880
and shouldn't be shouldn't well or that, or they won't

1188
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:36,599
be playing. I'm not saying that. Look, if the Wizards

1189
00:54:36,599 --> 00:54:38,159
don't want to trade those guys, none of them, with

1190
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,559
the exception of maybe Kuzma is gonna get you altering assets,

1191
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:43,400
and that's even he's probably not even getting you that.

1192
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,800
So but they won't be I'll tell you, none of

1193
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,400
them will be playing a lot of games after the

1194
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,840
trade deadline if they're still on the Wizards. So I'm

1195
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,360
this is more and I don't think Wizards fans I

1196
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,760
will say, I don't like painting fan base is a

1197
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,280
broad rush. But they seem to like kind of you

1198
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,480
always like there's descent among Raptors fans a lot of

1199
00:55:01,519 --> 00:55:03,519
it as to what the team is doing. And that's

1200
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:07,199
probably fair. But like the fans, the organization, the coaching staff,

1201
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,880
and the front office, like all those levels of Washington,

1202
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,719
Wizards just appear to be in alignment here and Wizards

1203
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,800
fan seem to be fully embracing kind of the suck.

1204
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:17,639
They want to know why we're not talking more about

1205
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:20,119
Kaishan George. They want to know why we're not talking

1206
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,239
about more about bub Carrington's passing. I will say the

1207
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,039
one thing I'll be watching, I don't know what to

1208
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:26,639
make of Bub Carrington yet, but that also in surch

1209
00:55:26,679 --> 00:55:28,400
you'll be bad if you decide, well, we're not gonna like,

1210
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,920
we're not gonna let like Malcolm Brock didn't run a

1211
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,239
ton of the office like this Bub Carrington show. I

1212
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,840
hope they give more on ball touches to blackholea Bali,

1213
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,639
and I hope even if it's ugly, even if he's

1214
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:42,760
shooting like thirty five percent from two, just make sure

1215
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,000
that alex Are doesn't go the DeAndre Ayton way of

1216
00:55:46,199 --> 00:55:49,159
finesse on the offensive end. Like, let's make this someone

1217
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:51,599
who gets to the foul line, who's gonna finish with forcet,

1218
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:55,320
who's connecting, for god fucking sakes on his screens, I

1219
00:55:55,599 --> 00:55:57,719
think he's gonna end up. I'm I tend not to

1220
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,679
read into Summer League good or bad, Like I try

1221
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,400
to take way things with the eye test from it,

1222
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:03,960
and sometimes I probably don't place enough stock in it.

1223
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,519
I'm not gonna I'm throwing Summer League out the window.

1224
00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:08,440
I do it for like, it's just he's so young,

1225
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:11,960
and it's just such an odd situation. But they have

1226
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,639
a ton of developmental projects and all of them are

1227
00:56:14,679 --> 00:56:15,920
gonna just get a ton.

1228
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 2: Of run, right, and like, so we both love Kolabali,

1229
00:56:18,599 --> 00:56:21,360
but like, if he has a bigger role and plays more,

1230
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,159
he's not gonna be for a player.

1231
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:27,519
Speaker 1: Let's move on the most importantly, that's the one. And

1232
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:29,679
this might speak to how I rationally high I am

1233
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,400
on him. I still view him as their best long

1234
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:32,159
term prospect.

1235
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,679
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I agree.

1236
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: Well, I think with Tsar and Bubb, I think there

1237
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,840
would be some disagreement, which is fair, have discussion. I

1238
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,800
will say, if you're gonna accidentally be better than expected,

1239
00:56:43,079 --> 00:56:45,519
it just wouldn't shock me if giving Balah Kolabali a

1240
00:56:45,559 --> 00:56:47,960
bigger role is part of the pathway to that, because

1241
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,920
that's how much of a believer I am in him.

1242
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,400
I don't maybe you don't agree that he has the

1243
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,400
vision if they're actually gonna have him run the offense.

1244
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,760
I just think in terms of if you just need

1245
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,960
him to do some basic deferential things coming around screens,

1246
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,920
getting downhill, he'll do it. And so maybe maybe it's

1247
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,400
a matter of all other guys aren't going to hit

1248
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,280
the shots office passes anyway, so what does it matter?

1249
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,480
And is he gonna have connectivity with the bigs. I'm

1250
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:10,280
so high on block cool Bali that I hope they

1251
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,360
give him kind of the Deniafvia bump that Deniavia finally

1252
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,840
got after like nineteen years in Washington or whatever it was.

1253
00:57:16,119 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: So that's the thing, like I'm as high on I'm

1254
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,320
maybe not as high on him as you are, but

1255
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,000
I really believe in him as a long term prospect.

1256
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,039
It ain't coming next year, Like next year might will

1257
00:57:26,039 --> 00:57:28,519
be the year I think where he plays more and

1258
00:57:28,639 --> 00:57:31,639
you look at like you don't know, you sort dunksan threes,

1259
00:57:31,679 --> 00:57:34,960
EPM or whatever, and he's like the most negatively impactful

1260
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,920
player because he's playing a lot and he's pretty bad.

1261
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,400
But it's all okay because it's just this is part

1262
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,199
of the developmental process and that's true of like I

1263
00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:45,360
don't know, same for I mentioned it with sar and

1264
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,320
it's just like, I don't know, we haven't even mentioned

1265
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,679
like saboteur in chief Jordan Poole, who it just nobody's

1266
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:52,880
better be on.

1267
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,599
Speaker 1: The roster if anyone cares post trade deadline, don't worry.

1268
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,599
Speaker 2: If he's not what this is a front office of

1269
00:57:58,639 --> 00:57:59,840
the year if they figure out how to get off

1270
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:00,159
him them.

1271
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:03,719
Speaker 1: So we only diverge on blah, like I think there's

1272
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,559
I came closer to putting better, but they're just we're

1273
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:07,960
running out of teams to call work.

1274
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, like I I you know, the

1275
00:58:10,679 --> 00:58:13,199
total is so low that you almost you probably should

1276
00:58:13,239 --> 00:58:16,000
just say better, right Like with Detroit. Detroit's just so

1277
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:17,039
much more talented.

1278
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: But much of a believer in Washington's vision. Though they're

1279
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,599
gonna they're gonna finesse this right, get to like thirteen

1280
00:58:22,639 --> 00:58:23,320
win territory.

1281
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,079
Speaker 2: They very much know what they're doing here.

1282
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: Let's go to the Philadelphia seventy six ers. They won

1283
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:33,079
forty seven games last year. But I think it must

1284
00:58:33,079 --> 00:58:36,679
be noted. Yeah, okay, they they added what's his name?

1285
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,760
Do you know his name? Who's that free agent they signed? Grant?

1286
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. Are we thinking of Lori Markinen? That

1287
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,599
was the other guy we spent all summer talking.

1288
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, that's that's right. So they got Andre Drummond,

1289
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:48,880
So you add Paul George. But the reason that I

1290
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:52,320
have to go better here they won forty seven games

1291
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,800
without a third star on the roster, while Joellembi missed

1292
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,159
more than half the season. Yep, we don't like. I

1293
00:58:58,159 --> 00:58:59,559
don't even know if we need to go into more

1294
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:01,679
deep like Maxine will get better even I think Paul

1295
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:04,360
George is getting older and worse. The pathway to them

1296
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,239
being worse, of course, though, is if Joel Emban missing

1297
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,480
significant time again. I just think they're probably better set

1298
00:59:10,559 --> 00:59:12,840
up at the I mean it's not. I think they're

1299
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,239
better set up at the top. Like, if you have

1300
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,960
Tyres Maxie and Paul George, the on off splits with

1301
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,840
Joel embie should not be as stark as they typically aren't.

1302
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,000
And if they are, then the Sixers probably have some

1303
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:24,599
other questions they need to answer. And finally, before I

1304
00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:28,159
throw it to you, they have another big ish move

1305
00:59:28,519 --> 00:59:30,599
left in them because they can trade four first round

1306
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:33,360
picks and they can still aggregate salary. They just can't

1307
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,079
take back more money into trade. They could still do

1308
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:39,199
something meaningful even if the player ends up being I'm

1309
00:59:39,239 --> 00:59:40,639
not saying they're gonna go out and get a star,

1310
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,679
but like, this is a Tar Easton team. I'm just

1311
00:59:42,719 --> 00:59:44,800
gonna throw Tar Easton every team. But like, if they

1312
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,199
can make a phrase frame with this way, they can

1313
00:59:48,239 --> 00:59:50,559
acquire someone who will be a part of their closing unit.

1314
00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:52,519
They have the assets to do that, and that's kind

1315
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:55,199
of scary when you think about, wait, don't they already

1316
00:59:55,239 --> 00:59:57,639
have Tyres Maxie, Paul George, Caleb Martin, and Joel Embiid

1317
00:59:57,639 --> 00:59:59,239
And yes they do, and they can still get better

1318
00:59:59,280 --> 00:59:59,679
from there.

1319
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 2: Now, somebody is gonna actually do this and prove this

1320
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:06,519
contention wrong, But like you know, sometimes we go through

1321
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:08,440
and we rank, like who are the best you know,

1322
01:00:08,599 --> 01:00:11,719
big one and two's in the league, and it's like, oh,

1323
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,840
Tatum and Brown or what you know, whoever whoever, it

1324
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,000
ends up being like if we did that, I think

1325
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,960
Paul George and Tyres Maxie would at least be in

1326
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,519
the conversation if we were talking like your number one

1327
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:24,320
and two options. And theoretically that is not the role

1328
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,159
they will play on this team. So as like two

1329
01:00:26,199 --> 01:00:28,360
and three, I don't know who's got a better second

1330
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,440
and third best player. Like every team you would think

1331
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:35,000
of mentioning are like first you know, shortlist championship, favorite

1332
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:37,639
type teams. So that that's just another way of saying

1333
01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:41,920
what you did, which is like the talent boost leave

1334
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,119
all the bench guys. They just rebuilt a bench. Martin Drummond, Gordon,

1335
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,719
Reggie Jackson even like it, just like they have guys

1336
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:53,079
now behind them and just as a top top three.

1337
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:55,599
Everybody made a big deal out of it, like you've

1338
01:00:55,639 --> 01:00:57,840
got your one, you've got your three, you've got your five.

1339
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,320
Like if you're gonna have three, super treat you've spaced

1340
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,880
him out perfectly. There's no overlap, everybody works, right, So, yeah,

1341
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,360
forty seven wins is way too low.

1342
01:01:06,519 --> 01:01:09,239
Speaker 1: And by the way, here's the other thing. The six

1343
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,760
years actually won the minutes last year that Tyre's MAXI

1344
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,679
played without Joel Embiid. And so now when you like,

1345
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,599
now you're just adding Paul George in theory into the

1346
01:01:18,639 --> 01:01:22,199
equation for those minutes and instead of playing to Bias

1347
01:01:22,239 --> 01:01:26,519
Harris a lot in those situations, you have cayleb Martin.

1348
01:01:27,159 --> 01:01:29,280
Like that's like, that's a big difference in terms of

1349
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:31,599
Kayla Martin's a better two way player at this point.

1350
01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:33,159
Obias Harris kind of fell off a cliff by the

1351
01:01:33,199 --> 01:01:36,079
end of his time in Philly. But like that lineup

1352
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,239
Grant So Tyre's Maxy D'Anthony Mountain Kelly who break, Tobias

1353
01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:42,079
Harris and Paul Reid were plus fifteen point one points

1354
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:45,360
per one hundred posessions last year. You can very easily

1355
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,920
get to a best five man unit without Joel Embiid.

1356
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:49,440
That is better than that on paper.

1357
01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:52,159
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I mean, so you if you're gonna go

1358
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:54,639
lower to you obviously just pin it on. Oh, Embiid's

1359
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,159
gonna miss a bunch of time, maybe PG as well,

1360
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,960
right sure, and or like, oh they lost to Anthony

1361
01:02:00,039 --> 01:02:02,960
Melton and Paul Reed. Well, like, yeah, Reid matters, but Drummond,

1362
01:02:03,039 --> 01:02:05,519
I think is the difference between Drummond and Reid as

1363
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:08,199
a backup is pretty negligible. And Melton didn't play like

1364
01:02:08,239 --> 01:02:10,360
Melton was hurt all year. So it's not like, you know,

1365
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,199
these new guys they are getting aren't replacing you know,

1366
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,559
high end rotation guys. They're just they're just improvements on

1367
01:02:16,679 --> 01:02:19,639
like what they got from those positions last year. What

1368
01:02:19,679 --> 01:02:21,320
do we got left this?

1369
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: Oh?

1370
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,519
Speaker 2: Is it just indy? Look at our pace? Unbelievable. Yeah,

1371
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:25,320
we'll go let's.

1372
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: Get grand nice wordplay. Look at our pace as we

1373
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:29,679
move into the pacers that it was unintentional.

1374
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,039
Speaker 2: That's how dialed in we are right now. Okay, they

1375
01:02:34,079 --> 01:02:39,920
won forty seven last year. I'm gonna go better. Yeah,

1376
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:45,760
I'm going better. I'm basically because full season of Siakham.

1377
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,960
I think nem Hard, Matherin, Jarris Walker, Ben Shephard could

1378
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,199
all be better. Tyres Haliburn hopefully will not be like

1379
01:02:54,559 --> 01:02:58,199
sixty five percent of his best self for half of

1380
01:02:58,239 --> 01:03:03,880
the year. So, whether it's organic growth, whether it's new additions,

1381
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,239
playing larger samples, whether it's their best player looking like

1382
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,280
the guy who was in the MVP conversation through like

1383
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,199
what two months of the season before he had the hamstring.

1384
01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:17,159
There's just a lot of ways for them to be better.

1385
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,920
So that's a kind of an overview. But like, are

1386
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,639
you with me? And if you're not, this is one

1387
01:03:23,719 --> 01:03:25,920
I am prepared to be talked out of. But I

1388
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:28,800
just I don't know where you start if you're gonna

1389
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,639
say worse other than the East has more good teams

1390
01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:32,119
at the top.

1391
01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:35,039
Speaker 1: I think if you want to be concerned about their defense,

1392
01:03:35,079 --> 01:03:37,360
they didn't do anything to improve on the wings, and

1393
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,519
it doesn't I still, I honestly don't know. I can't

1394
01:03:39,519 --> 01:03:42,159
wait to ask Kaitln Cooper about this, assuming she indulges it,

1395
01:03:42,639 --> 01:03:46,519
what the plan is for Jarvis Walker here. But I

1396
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:48,760
just tyres Haliburton not going to miss as much time

1397
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,079
I would assume, or like he's just gonna be better

1398
01:03:51,159 --> 01:03:52,760
wired to wire if he doesn't miss as much time

1399
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:54,280
as he came back. He wasn't the same player after

1400
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,280
the hamstring injury. Part of that was the mid season

1401
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,320
roster turnover. I'd also bet again something like that happening. Now,

1402
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:01,480
maybe they go out and get like a Dorian Finney

1403
01:04:01,519 --> 01:04:03,679
Smith or a Jay Shawn Tate. They would be an

1404
01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:05,639
interesting Tary Eastan team by the way, Oh my god,

1405
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:09,679
But like that's not someone who's gonna fundamentally change how

1406
01:04:09,679 --> 01:04:11,840
you play, like Pascal Siakam is. And then you also

1407
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,760
traded someone who was fundamental to your offense in Buddy

1408
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,800
Healed and just the role he played away from the ball,

1409
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:19,599
and you had to make Tyre's Haliburton kind of do

1410
01:04:19,639 --> 01:04:22,000
some different stuff off the ball. I think the biggest

1411
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,000
factor for them is now you get to go through

1412
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,360
a training camp with Tyres Haliburt and Siakam and now

1413
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,400
you get time to sit down and figure out how

1414
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,119
do we use these two together? Because there's a lot

1415
01:04:32,159 --> 01:04:33,760
of people like, well, they should have explored the two

1416
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,960
man game with them, and I always understand that when

1417
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,679
you're talking about stars, but you're also like you're then involving,

1418
01:04:39,719 --> 01:04:42,119
in theory the two best defenders on the other team

1419
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,599
in those actions, and so I think, you know, looking

1420
01:04:45,639 --> 01:04:47,920
at their staggered minutes, some of them were super interesting.

1421
01:04:48,199 --> 01:04:50,880
I think the base of the roster remains really good.

1422
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,519
Did it get better like just talent wise, where you

1423
01:04:54,519 --> 01:04:56,320
could bank on a ton of improvement. I really think

1424
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:58,280
that depends on how you feel about Jars Walker and

1425
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,280
Bennan mcmathern. Who for me, if those two guys are

1426
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,039
playing substantial roles, I'm probably lower on the Pacers then

1427
01:05:04,039 --> 01:05:06,559
I am. I just I'm not a Ben mcmathern guy relative.

1428
01:05:06,599 --> 01:05:09,480
I've seen his highs Pacers fans, I promise I've seen

1429
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,920
Pacers games, but his fit on this team is just

1430
01:05:13,039 --> 01:05:16,320
so cock eyed to me, and I just don't know

1431
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:17,920
if he's gonna be able to become the level of

1432
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,280
defender and off ball player that would be the perfect

1433
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,119
fit for their top end units. And so just with

1434
01:05:24,159 --> 01:05:26,599
the rise of Andrew Nemhard too, I think that complicates

1435
01:05:26,639 --> 01:05:30,039
it even further. And then again, I am banking on

1436
01:05:30,119 --> 01:05:31,920
a little bit that they will make a move, not

1437
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,599
a huge one, to just address like kind of the

1438
01:05:34,639 --> 01:05:37,000
wing rotation, where's everyone's like, Oh, it's Ben mcmather and

1439
01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:39,000
Jaris Walker are gonna play a ton. It just wouldn't

1440
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,039
shock me if one of those guys is not on

1441
01:05:41,079 --> 01:05:42,880
the roster by the end of the season.

1442
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say they could and I think

1443
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,719
should look to trade both of those guys, certainly Matherin

1444
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,960
for all the reasons that you laid out, and so like,

1445
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:54,360
I don't. I imagine most Pacers fans, as is the

1446
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,559
case with most fans of specific teams, like believe in

1447
01:05:58,039 --> 01:06:01,559
the inevitable growth to artem of the young guys that

1448
01:06:01,639 --> 01:06:06,719
they've drafted. The fit just doesn't work. I don't think, certainly,

1449
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,760
not so far. I'm not confident will in the future.

1450
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,880
And so like, if anybody out their values Matherin or

1451
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,719
Walker as the first round like lottery picks that they

1452
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,800
were still maybe they do, maybe they don't. Like there's

1453
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:19,719
a there's a deal to be made that could be

1454
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,599
like fairly consequentially, you've got to find more money if

1455
01:06:22,599 --> 01:06:25,199
you're really big game hunting. But like I do think

1456
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:28,960
the Pacers should be more likely to make a trade

1457
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,320
that like, like you say, sometime you know, maybe not

1458
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,079
a closer, but somebody that is like a six, you know,

1459
01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:36,800
it really in the rotation and does close. Sometimes if

1460
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,159
you put you know, Matherin and or Walker together in

1461
01:06:40,239 --> 01:06:42,360
some package, you probably can't trade them at this you know,

1462
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,199
to the same team, because that's just like a lot

1463
01:06:44,199 --> 01:06:46,000
of youth but you know, I mean they're all going

1464
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:49,639
to improve via trade on news covers back why not? Yeah? No,

1465
01:06:49,679 --> 01:06:52,920
I don't know, trade them to Washington Kyle Kuzma for

1466
01:06:53,679 --> 01:06:54,559
Matherin and Walker.

1467
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,719
Speaker 1: I would push back that they like should I just

1468
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,599
think that they should be more open to it than

1469
01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:02,159
it seem, specifically with Ben mcmatherin, Like if you actually

1470
01:07:02,159 --> 01:07:05,719
are married to Andrew Nemhard and Tyres Haliburton long term.

1471
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,840
I just don't well, I don't see the theory of

1472
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,599
Ben mcmathern on this team.

1473
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 2: Well or Walker really because you just you know, you Max,

1474
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:15,760
you brought Topping back at a number that says we're

1475
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:17,639
gonna play this guy. I guess.

1476
01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:22,559
Speaker 1: Is weird. I was just wondering, like, if you don't

1477
01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:25,679
think Miles Turner is here, Like I'm not saying they

1478
01:07:25,719 --> 01:07:27,679
they'll trade him, but he is going into a contract year.

1479
01:07:27,679 --> 01:07:30,800
If they're not going to pay him, it's easier to envision. Okay,

1480
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:34,079
top In, Siakam, Jarris Walker, you cobble together a big

1481
01:07:34,119 --> 01:07:35,079
man rotation out of that.

1482
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe I'm surprised we agreed there. That was

1483
01:07:38,679 --> 01:07:40,599
one that was my last one of Like, I don't know,

1484
01:07:40,639 --> 01:07:41,800
I could be talking about.

1485
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,039
Speaker 1: We had ten teams getting better, But I'll point this out,

1486
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:45,639
there were six teams in the West last year that

1487
01:07:45,679 --> 01:07:48,199
won forty nine games compared to three in the East,

1488
01:07:48,639 --> 01:07:50,599
And so like there is room here, especially when the

1489
01:07:50,599 --> 01:07:53,719
bottom is so bottom right, that like there could be

1490
01:07:53,719 --> 01:07:56,880
more wins available. I'm sure we're gonna miss on some

1491
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,519
of these, But I just I don't look at any

1492
01:07:59,519 --> 01:08:01,840
of this like where's the risk that like the real

1493
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,760
I guess maybe some people might think the Hornets and

1494
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,880
the Bucks are risks. I guess I just don't.

1495
01:08:08,679 --> 01:08:10,679
Speaker 2: Well I would I would frame it as like, if

1496
01:08:10,679 --> 01:08:14,119
we're trying to justify why we have teams getting better

1497
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,279
by a two to one ratio, I think you could

1498
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:21,840
say between Brooklyn and Washington, those are probably going to

1499
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,560
be the worst records in the league. Like Portland might

1500
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:25,920
have something to say about it, but if you just

1501
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,199
look at the rosters, like Portland has way more talent

1502
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,880
for those teams. So if you say those Brooklyn and

1503
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:36,399
Washington combined for fewer than thirty wins, which we basically

1504
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,119
have said they absolutely will, then you're just you know,

1505
01:08:39,159 --> 01:08:42,119
you're just put apportioning those out to several teams and

1506
01:08:42,159 --> 01:08:44,279
that's how you get so many with improved records.

1507
01:08:45,199 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 1: Are you ready to take us out of here?

1508
01:08:47,119 --> 01:08:50,600
Speaker 2: Sure? Thanks everybody for listening, for watching, for appreciating Dan's

1509
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:56,319
unbelievable graphics, complete with emojis overlaid words. Just really, if

1510
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:58,000
you're not watching, you should have been, is the point

1511
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,239
I'm making for these ones, especially.

1512
01:09:00,399 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 1: Like the stream you're complimenting, you get rid of it

1513
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:04,760
so you can look at us instead.

1514
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,399
Speaker 2: Great. If you haven't already rate, review, subscribe wherever you

1515
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:13,000
get your podcasts, get on our YouTube page. Subscribe there, comment,

1516
01:09:13,079 --> 01:09:15,439
help the algorithm. Love us. Share all this stuff with

1517
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,239
your friends, with your enemies. Check out our merch join

1518
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:20,880
our discord links for that and YouTube and podcast descriptions.

1519
01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:24,159
Close as always, shouts Frank mila Kina saw him make

1520
01:09:24,199 --> 01:09:27,920
an awesome offensive rebound against Germany just before we started recording,

1521
01:09:28,239 --> 01:09:31,039
and why a beam of light came down from heaven

1522
01:09:31,239 --> 01:09:34,279
and shown on Frank Milikina and he just hoarded this

1523
01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:36,680
offensive pord and put it back so he'll be back

1524
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,800
in the league soon. Apologies, Chaired owt