Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to the nonprofits. So here's the
Speaker 1: latest absurdity.
Speaker 2: The World Start Federation has decided that darts, the game
Speaker 2: where your biggest physical exertion is lifting a pint between throws,
Speaker 2: is apparently under threat if trans women are allowed to compete. Yes, darts,
Speaker 2: not wrestling, not powerlifting, but darts. Dutch player Noel Lynn
Speaker 2: van Luvin, one of the sports rising stars, just got
Speaker 2: banned from Woman's Firmness because the WDF voted to restrict
Speaker 2: them to people's assign female at birth. Translation, they rather
Speaker 2: exclude talent than admit their rule is rooted in bias,
Speaker 2: not biology.
Speaker 1: But here's the part I love.
Speaker 2: Noah Lynn is in quitting. She's still playing in the
Speaker 2: open events and with Professional Darts Corporation, which shocker seems
Speaker 2: to understand inclusivity doesn't ruin a sport. She's basically saying
Speaker 2: you can take the board or the darts out of
Speaker 2: my hands, and that that's bulls eye energy. This story
Speaker 2: is from LGBT New Nation by John Russell on July thirteenth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Okay, dope, smokey, So okay, I'm a
Speaker 2: little I'm just going to say this real quick. I
Speaker 2: didn't know darts was a major concern of athletic ability
Speaker 2: that we would need trans women couldn't play with a
Speaker 2: fab people. But apparently I didn't know there. Apparently you
Speaker 2: can find bigger tree everywhere. So here we are. So
Speaker 2: my question to you, you last start with you? So
Speaker 2: you know how you know sports? You know sports stuff.
Speaker 2: I don't do the sports ball, but they usually pride
Speaker 2: themselves of fairness and inclusivity.
Speaker 1: But what does fairness really mean?
Speaker 2: And again my darts, which realizes on the skill and
Speaker 2: precision rather than physical strength, Like, what's the difference?
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't really know, not being you know,
Speaker 3: a biologist of any sort. But since I'm not an expert,
Speaker 3: I'm speculating. And having said that, I feel licensed to
Speaker 3: speculate wildly. I somebody who has actually experienced the phenomenon
Speaker 3: might tell me that I'm wrong, and I would be
Speaker 3: I would gladly hear that. But I think that, like
Speaker 3: transphobia really just comes down to sexism, right. It's it's
Speaker 3: this idea that in this particular example, so with the darts,
Speaker 3: there was a competitor of Noahllen that refused to play
Speaker 3: against her because I am assuming in that other player's view,
Speaker 3: Noah Lynn is a man pretending to be a woman
Speaker 3: and feels that it is unfair for her, the other competitor,
Speaker 3: to play against Noahllen because she thinks that Nolan has
Speaker 3: some distinct advantage against her because she's because in her view,
Speaker 3: not in my own, Noelan is not a woman. I
Speaker 3: don't holp that people, just to clarify that one more time,
Speaker 3: I think that there is such deeply ingrained misogyny in
Speaker 3: the society that, like I over this past week and
Speaker 3: I encountered a woman that like told me out of
Speaker 3: her mouth that she feels like men know more some
Speaker 3: things better than her just by virtue of being men,
Speaker 3: and feels like men should be the authority. And the
Speaker 3: three you know cis white men in the car with her.
Speaker 3: We all disagreed with her on that, and like after,
Speaker 3: like why do you think that? And I thought it
Speaker 3: was kind of an ironic thing. But it's so ingrained
Speaker 3: that there are even women that believe this, and and
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of what's happening here is like whoever,
Speaker 3: like this other competitor was or these other you know,
Speaker 3: competitors in this Federation, feel not only feel as if
Speaker 3: trans women aren't women, which is false, feel as if
Speaker 3: men have a distinct advantage against them. You know, I'll
Speaker 3: say males have a distinct advantage against them in something
Speaker 3: as simple as darts, when to my knowledge, there's no
Speaker 3: like data to really suggest that. So that that's what
Speaker 3: I think is happening.
Speaker 4: I would I would add to that, but I would
Speaker 4: add to that that that women often have been they've
Speaker 4: been beaten down for so many thousands of years that
Speaker 4: it almost comes, uh, becomes that a thing that they
Speaker 4: kind of just use in the fast thinking mode instead
Speaker 4: of the deep thinking mode. So it's like it's an
Speaker 4: automatic thing that comes out of their mouth, even though
Speaker 4: they don't believe it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: So it's just how do you how do you exist
Speaker 4: safely in a world dominated by men? You give them
Speaker 4: what they want, and you keep what you're really thinking
Speaker 4: to yourself. There's no reason for for that girl who
Speaker 4: quit the game. In darts, there are some minor differences
Speaker 4: in how a woman would play and a man would play,
Speaker 4: but there's no real difference in skill. You know, anybody
Speaker 4: who practices enough can hit the bull's eye. You know,
Speaker 4: some people it takes it a week. Some people it
Speaker 4: takes a year, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also too, I want to point out that
Speaker 2: if she's on HRT, her biology is different than sismile
Speaker 2: that's not on any sort of hormones, so her biology
Speaker 2: has already changed anyway. So just so it just boils
Speaker 2: down to basically genitals at this point, and that we
Speaker 2: don't know anything about that either. So I'm sorry, this
Speaker 2: just reads of sexism and and it's so. And it's
Speaker 2: much easier to have that sexism go toward trans women
Speaker 2: than a fab woman because we've are there. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: we can't really piss their bigger they're bigger group than us, so.
Speaker 1: It'll be very much frowned upon.
Speaker 2: Plus like there's other people working in the organization. There
Speaker 2: are probably you know, sis women, so you know, I
Speaker 2: can't do that, but that that over there, I'm going
Speaker 2: to protect women's sports.
Speaker 1: That's bad. They're bad. So it's all arbitrary crap. That's
Speaker 1: usually how big a tree goes anyways.
Speaker 2: So John based so based on what we just discussed,
Speaker 2: it sue. In situations where science is cided but no
Speaker 2: new evidence is presented, how should we evaluate whether a
Speaker 2: policy is based on data or on fear and cultural bias.
Speaker 4: Well, that's actually fairly easy in this case because since
Speaker 4: there is no data, the lack of data means that
Speaker 4: you do not discriminate until there is data that shows
Speaker 4: there's an overwhelming need to balance the playing field. There's
Speaker 4: there's so little difference between how the two genders play
Speaker 4: a sport like darts that a good a good player,
Speaker 4: regardless of what gender they are, can win against anybody
Speaker 4: else who isn't as good as they are. It doesn't
Speaker 4: have anything to do with what gender they are. So
Speaker 4: you know that maybe if they were they lengthened the
Speaker 4: field to the point where they had to toss it
Speaker 4: like a baseball, then it would be a distance thing
Speaker 4: where they had to have strong enough upper body strength
Speaker 4: to hurl it that far. But for the in reality,
Speaker 4: if they're only doing you know, five or ten paces,
Speaker 4: I mean, there's no real difference. And so what this
Speaker 4: really is is just sheer discrimination. There's a sheer because
Speaker 4: their members are from I don't know, I forget how
Speaker 4: many countries. There's quite a few countries that voted on this,
Speaker 4: and a lot of those countries are simply just homophobic
Speaker 4: and transphobic period. Their cultures are that way, and they say, well,
Speaker 4: they shouldn't be doing that, you know, even though it's
Speaker 4: just not a thing. You know, it's sort of like sailing.
Speaker 4: You know, women can crew on a sailboat, any any
Speaker 4: size sailboat, you know, and they can they can they
Speaker 4: can race against the whole all male crew and win,
Speaker 4: you know, at the skill level is basically seamanship.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: So I don't know, you know, why do we do
Speaker 4: this at all? Why are we picking on somebody just
Speaker 4: and there's like one person in all of darts who's trans,
Speaker 4: so they're they're doing this, or maybe two or three,
Speaker 4: but they're you know, the percentage of trans people in
Speaker 4: any sport is so minute that if they if they
Speaker 4: actually win a tournament, they're gonna everybody's going to point
Speaker 4: to the fact they're trans. Whereas if a woman who's
Speaker 4: jacked on testosterone because she wants to win the game
Speaker 4: has fifty times a testosterone, or the trans person who's
Speaker 4: trying to reduce their testosterone and she she wins a game,
Speaker 4: they don't say anything that what what's that's because it's just.
Speaker 2: Like I want to point out there might be trans
Speaker 2: woman in darts, But you don't know.
Speaker 1: A lot of people.
Speaker 2: You meet people of different genders, and you just don't
Speaker 2: have different sexes that I'm present as a different gender.
Speaker 2: You don't know because we're not looking out of generals.
Speaker 2: We look at how they present. So I'm just saying
Speaker 2: you probably need a transferson didn't know it, just saying
Speaker 2: so anyway, I just feel like I think I'm just
Speaker 2: getting a little like I don't think about darts.
Speaker 1: I don't really think about sports.
Speaker 2: I don't really think about it until I have to
Speaker 2: and tell something like this. It's like, oh yeah, big
Speaker 2: a tree, and it just it just seems so absurd.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's like any sport, but really it starts
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't understand. And I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: a lot of training there, because like I'm not the
Speaker 2: best at darts.
Speaker 1: I kind of suck at it.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure there's a lot of vision and focus
Speaker 2: and there has to be consistency and tons and tons
Speaker 2: of practice, and there's probably you know, they have coaches
Speaker 2: and all the things, and I get that, and that's
Speaker 2: what you want to do for a career. I think
Speaker 2: that's great, But then you get you know, weirdos who
Speaker 2: are like, no, I am sorry, there is a trap
Speaker 2: quote unquote you know around and that makes me nervous.
Speaker 2: And also I can't have a woman and any sort
Speaker 2: of capacity being better than me because of my fragile
Speaker 2: mail ego.
Speaker 1: That's all I hear.
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry, not sorry, so.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: And that being said, in the broader social context of
Speaker 2: all this and the attitudes, what do you what should
Speaker 2: like sports organizations do, because obviously they were going to
Speaker 2: they were okay with this two years ago, and then
Speaker 2: they voted again.
Speaker 1: They were like, no, sorry, we don't.
Speaker 2: Like trans people anymore, but you can compete and all
Speaker 2: the other stuff. But I mean, like, I'm glad that
Speaker 2: she's going on to work with another organization. I think
Speaker 2: that's great, But it's just so dumb.
Speaker 4: I don't like you because you wear brown shoes. Damn it.
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, what it was like.
Speaker 3: And it says too and I mentioned this a little
Speaker 3: bit beforehand, the that like, so the policy is like
Speaker 3: strictly about like exclusion, right, is an exclusionary policy. It says,
Speaker 3: let's take you know, trans women away from CIS women,
Speaker 3: but and and put them in this own little group
Speaker 3: that we are called open. Right, you can still play,
Speaker 3: but you can't play as women. We will let you play,
Speaker 3: but we're not going to recognize you as women. It's
Speaker 3: basically what they're saying. And then they go on to
Speaker 3: it says leader in the article that like, oh, there's
Speaker 3: currently speaking with lawyers to you know, figure out how
Speaker 3: to implement this in a way that includes everybody. Like, motherfucker,
Speaker 3: you can't like you by implementing this, you're excluding people,
Speaker 3: Like that's the case. We like we've already said no, yeah,
Speaker 3: you can't exclude people, and then be like, how do
Speaker 3: you people inclusively? Yeah, exactly, and like putting into.
Speaker 4: A growth with everybody is not is not. It's still
Speaker 4: reminding me of Brown versus the Board of Education. Separate
Speaker 4: but equal, separate exactly.
Speaker 3: That's it's it's it's just another repeat of that. You
Speaker 3: can't implement exclusion in in an inclusive way. Uh, hand
Speaker 3: eye coordination is handled in like what the prefrontal cortex,
Speaker 3: which there maybe are there some differences between you know, Uh,
Speaker 3: I don't think sales. Yeah, I mean that's about like uh, neurodivergence.
Speaker 3: Neurodivergent people can have different handy coordination, you know, propriateceptions.
Speaker 3: So like there's there. If you want to segregate darts
Speaker 3: based on something, do it based on prefrontal cortex activity.
Speaker 1: Right if you want.
Speaker 2: You can't do that because gender something something.
Speaker 3: Something something, gibus something something something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's that's really a shame, you know that
Speaker 4: this that and this person gets to suffer for it.
Speaker 4: But she's she's a trooper and she's gonna do what
Speaker 4: she can and uh and fight for it. And I'm
Speaker 4: proud of her for that. I think that, uh, you know,
Speaker 4: not quitting is kind of a poke in the eye
Speaker 4: to these bigots who who just try and you know,
Speaker 4: control everything that we do and who we are. You
Speaker 4: can't control who we are. We are who we are period.
Speaker 4: You know, get over it. You know, I'm queer. I'm here,
Speaker 4: I'm staying. Get over it, you know, move on.
Speaker 2: You know, it's thank you for thank you for you've
Speaker 2: for the queer people, John, I feel see anyway, I
Speaker 2: am gonna so I wanted to read what Cynthia, who
Speaker 2: is supposed to be here today.
Speaker 1: I'm using her notes. Thank you, Cynthia.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to read what Cynthia wrote and I
Speaker 2: wanted to get you guys's reaction to this.
Speaker 1: So this is keptical humanist point of view. The world
Speaker 1: starts federation.
Speaker 2: The ban on transgransder woman and women's tournaments isn't grounded
Speaker 2: in news science, is grounded in fear. By their own emission,
Speaker 2: no significant evidence shows trans women have an advantage in darts. Instead,
Speaker 2: this decision mirrors the rising tide of anti trans sentiment
Speaker 2: we see in many areas of society. From a humanist perspective,
Speaker 2: the issue isn't just about darts. It's about dignity, inclusion,
Speaker 2: and recognizing the humanity of other parers like Noah Lynn
Speaker 2: Van Luvin. Rules that single out trans athletes under the
Speaker 2: guise of fairness reveal less about farness itself and more
Speaker 2: about prejudice disguise as policy. Humanism reminds us that we
Speaker 2: should build communities, including sports that foster participate, participation, joy
Speaker 2: and in respect for all people. No one's that vow
Speaker 2: to fear and exclusion. So I would like to get
Speaker 2: your reaction to that.
Speaker 4: John, I agree with her analysis pretty much completely. She
Speaker 4: she did mention, you know about how how these things
Speaker 4: come about a little bit, and that they really need
Speaker 4: to be uh confronted as they happen, you know, so
Speaker 4: you know, uh I this one was was bad for
Speaker 4: me obviously for various reasons. But I have a lot
Speaker 4: of friends who are trans and this just really torques
Speaker 4: my chain quite a bit. And after reading this article,
Speaker 4: I wrote the offending agency and gave them what for
Speaker 4: and uh asked them about uh why they are protesting
Speaker 4: that they need to be equitable and then throwing fairness
Speaker 4: and equitability right in the trash basically, so it kind
Speaker 4: of activated my activist gene. I think the links to
Speaker 4: this are down in the uh down in the lit
Speaker 4: down down by the comments, but just before the comments,
Speaker 4: you know, hitting more on the little thought who you'll
Speaker 4: see the articles, uh the article we do this for
Speaker 4: and just look up this this rather naughty organization who
Speaker 4: the year before had no problem with it until it
Speaker 4: became a problem in some of their member countries, and
Speaker 4: until this other player forfeited a match you know, and
Speaker 4: that I guess was their their final. Uh. Well, we
Speaker 4: got to do something because we can't have everybody forfeiting
Speaker 4: matches because this person's transgender. Uh, everybody is not one
Speaker 4: person first and secondly, it's setting a bad precedent for
Speaker 4: everybody else. So if you want to be discriminatory and
Speaker 4: you want to be bigoted, you know, if you're setting
Speaker 4: a setting a standard for the entire organization and the
Speaker 4: entire sport, then probably you need to be shouted down.
Speaker 4: So that's pretty much that what I wanted to say
Speaker 4: at this point.
Speaker 1: Your thoughts.
Speaker 3: I think you know you mentioned it earlier. I guess
Speaker 3: I did at the beginning too. You know, it's it's
Speaker 3: just transphobia, and transphobia is just misogyny, and misogyny is
Speaker 3: just sexism, and sexism is just ignorance. So it's just ignorance,
Speaker 3: you know, when you go down to it. And I
Speaker 3: I I think I agree with John that that what
Speaker 3: Cynthia said was very apt and describing it. But I,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not experiencing the phenomenon. I I can't
Speaker 3: really say, you know, I can't say what it's like,
Speaker 3: I can't say how it feels. I can't I can't
Speaker 3: do anything but listen, and then you know, ask how
Speaker 3: I can help. So I don't know how that might be,
Speaker 3: but I would like I would like to know, and I,
Speaker 3: you know, I have your back.
Speaker 2: And then and sometimes that's all you need, and then
Speaker 2: if someone does can point you in.
Speaker 1: The right direction to help, you should help.
Speaker 2: So, as mister Rogers says when he was alive, always
Speaker 2: look for the people that help.
Speaker 4: So