Speaker 1: We're Tom Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Hello kittens, welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
I am the team. You're te Low, Tom Fitzgerald, and
I'm here with the Low and your te Lot Lorenzo,
my cousin, I love the husband, and we are back
from our trip back and Lorenzo is dying. He told
me he was like, I am talking about the trip
on the podcast. You were giving me fifteen minutes talk about.
Speaker 2: We're asking on Instagram and you know, they want to
know about our trip and.
Speaker 1: Let me just set the stage and then you can go,
because you're very bad at setting the stage if you
haven't been paying attention or listening. We took a almost
two ten day trip to Edinburgh and Donic, Ireland, and
a couple of days in Dublin and it was a
lovely time. And Lorenzo planned the entire trip because I
am I've been with this man long enough to know
that you just get out of his way when there's
a trip to be planned. So I'm turning this over
to you. If you follow us on Instagram, and you should,
it's Tom and Lorenzo Official because our original Tom and
lorenzo Instagram account got hacked and we're no longer part
of that. So Tom and Lorenzo Official. If you go
there on Instagram, you will see hundreds of pictures from
our trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see a ton of pictures because I always
do that because sometimes I feel like it's a little
too self endored. But people love it. People love it.
They say, oh my god, I'm so glad to see
your pictures. You take great pictures, and I think it's
a way to share. So if you're planning a trip,
you know, you get inspired by the pictures and the
places we've been. I was my entire life. I've always
wanted to go to Scotland. I don't know why. I
guess because I liked the culture and everything about it.
So I was very excited. We we were we we
got invited to a wedding uh in in Ireland, and
that was the original plan with the whole family. So
uh so we were talking about it and then we're like, oh,
why don't we just go to Scotland too, Like, since
we're there, let's just add another you know, leg and
uh we did, and I'm my god, I'm so glad
we did.
Speaker 1: Edinburgh is magical. I say, it's kind of a beautiful,
magical city.
Speaker 2: You go ahead, No, no, no, I mean Scotland is absolutely magical.
It's everything I saw on TikTok five hundred thousand times
on YouTube everywhere. It's really what you see online and more.
It's a beautiful, magical place. Uh. There's so much history
everywhere you can feel it. Uh. And it's so beautiful
and the people were so friendly. I have to emphasize this.
Everyone was extremely friendly and helpful and it was just great.
We had the most amazing experience. It's funny because Tom's family,
some of his siblings went first a couple of days
first before we landed there, and they were taking pictures
and I see all these people wearing jackets and blazes,
and I'm like.
Speaker 1: It was one hundred and five to grays in Philadelphia.
I now left ye and we landed in cold weather.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was really cold. I mean I wasn't even
going to bring a jacket, but you know, I'm glad
I did. So. It was kind of like cloudy, gray
and a little bit of rain in the beginning. And
then it's funny, towards the end of the trip, we
were like wearing shorts and it was so hot. Right anyway,
we made a very good decision. I highly recommend that
we took the bus toward to the Highlands. We went
to the Loch Nest, glen Coe and the Highlands and
all that area, and it was just it's a long trip.
You were on a bus a long time because it's
not that close to Edinburgh, but it's so worth it.
I mean just going and looking at the you know,
just the scenery and and the mountains and everything. And
then every time we stopped, my god.
Speaker 1: It's just heaven. It's beautiful. It doesn't seem real. It
doesn't seem when you're standing and it doesn't seem real.
Speaker 2: So we got to see a lot of things. Everything
you can imagine. Dura Mile is it's very touristy, but
so magical. The castle, my god, it's it's not even
just a castle, it's a whole village up there. It's
just phenomenon. We had great time. We also had tea there.
We did the afternoon tea at the castle with the
whole family, which was very lovely. So we visit every
pretty much every place. We walked a lot. We saw
a lot as you can see. I took a bunch
of pictures and of course I had to try the kilt.
I mean I had to you you can see pictures
of me wearing on my our Instagram account. And it
was funny. The whole thing started with us talking because
we have we had a family group for the trip,
and some of the guys, the in laws, were saying, well,
I'm thinking abouting a kilt. And then I'm like, oh
my god, let's do it. Let's all do it, and
we'll take a picture all together, all the boys together
wearing kilts. But of course knew what he did it.
I did it. I was like, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Do my memory play. That was not my memory no. No,
no one said I think I'll do it. Lorenzo was
let's all do it. No one, no one suggested doing this.
You were the one. Well the funny thing, and everybody
was like, no, I don't think I'll do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But after I did it, people were like, well,
I wish I had.
Speaker 1: Done one person anyway I did it. One person said,
oh I wish I had done that.
Speaker 2: Anyway I did it, and I thought.
Speaker 1: It was the he or my husband told me to
shut up. And the bitch in this marriage. But I
am not the bitch anyway.
Speaker 2: No, he's not.
Speaker 1: I had the most of me. You're not dead serious
there for a second. No, really, I am the bitch.
Speaker 2: I am the bitch.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I had I love the experience. Uh. You know,
I'm a fashion person. I've always looked at men wearing them.
I think it's so hot and masculine and beautiful. So
I was like, I need to do it. Uh and
I had. I had no idea what I was doing,
and I didn't want it to do it, you know wrong.
I mean I didn't want to like make a fool
out of myself anyway. So I went to the store.
Uh and uh, this guy at the store was so helpful.
He measured me and you know, the whole thing to
show me how to do it, because it, you know,
there's very specific things about where it has to go
up you know, below you your belly button and all that,
and the knees for the you know where he has
to hit your knee, and then the socks and the flashes,
you know, the little flags that you had to the
to the socks, all that stuff. So I wanted that.
I was like watching videos how to how to wear it,
and I loved it, loved the experience, and I have
it now and I'm gonna wear it. I'm gonna wear it.
He did in filled it. I love it. It was
just a great experience. Anyway, Scottland was phenomen.
Speaker 1: My favorite thing speaking of kilts, is I mean, we
got to see a lot of kilts while we were there,
but my favorite thing was seeing guys who were not
dressed up and we're not in the full regalia, and
I have this very strong image. When we were in
the Highlands, we stopped in this one small town. Actually
it was the town where we took the ferry out
to lock Nest, So we were right on Locknest.
Speaker 2: It's Fort Augustus, Okay, that's.
Speaker 1: The town, and we were waiting in line for the
boat and this guy just walked by. He was just
some local walking by and he was in a gray
kilt with a gray hoodie and a pair of sneakers,
and I just loved it. I was like, that is
such a cool look. Yes, yes, it's traditional, but it's
moderns It has a certain formality to it, but it's
clearly not formal, and it's just very relaxed, and it
really I mean I knew this about the kilt, but
to see it in play to say that it actually
is a workable garment. It's not some ceremonial garment for
a Scottish men. It's it's a workable garment. A lot
of them will walk around wearing it in casual situations.
Speaker 2: So I loved it. I did a lot of research
because you know, you also have the Great kilt that's
the one you see on Outleander that is pretty much
just a piece of cloth that you literally lie on
the floor and you wrap it around you. That's how
they were in the on the TV show Outleander. But anyway,
and I asked people, I asked local, I asked the guy,
and I was like, am I insulting people here by
wearing this? You know, I don't want to, you know,
be accused of like you know, cultural appropriation or anything
like that. But they were like, no, my god, no,
everyone loves when people wear them, you know. So I
did it. Loved it anyway. Scotland was absolutely phenomenal. I
highly highly recommended. The food was great, Yes, hagus I didn't.
Speaker 1: Well, Lorenzo's a vegetari there's a vegetari, but they're not
on any of the restaurants we went to. None of
them had it. Also, Lorenzo managed to find a restaurant
with absolutely nothing on the menu that I liked. It was.
It was a tremendous feet on his part. First the haggis.
I'm the type of person who, if I go to
a country, I'm gonna, yeah, give me the haggis. When
we went to Germany, I was like, all right, strudel
and brought worst. That's what I'm going to do. Like,
if you're here, you're here. You want to try those things.
And I'm not precious about foods that might be considered
a little questionable or or that other people might consider gross.
As our tour guide said when we were on the
Highland bus and he was talking about hagis, He's like,
I don't want to hear anything from Americans. You all
eat hot dogs, and you know you're you don't want
to think about what's in a hot dog. But it's
no better or worse than what's in hagus. It was fine.
I had it to have it. I had it to
say that I had it, to experience it and to
because you know, satisfy my curiosity, but I'll never have
it again. And I wasn't. I wasn't grossed out by
the flavor of it at all, and I'm not grossed
out by what it's made of. It's mostly made of
orgon me as far as I understand, and you know,
oatmeal and spices and stuff like that. It tasted fine,
it had. It tasted like a spicy meat loaf. My
issue with it was the consistency. I do not like
mushy food. That's me. I do not like mushy food
at all. Like I can't eat things like croquettes like
minced you know, chicken crow, that sort of thing, I
can't eat. I don't like it. So and that was
my thing. And I know there are forms of hagas
that are like deep fried, that have like a heavy
crust on them. But I had the traditional haggis with
the tatties and the NEPs, and I'm glad it was delicious.
But I really don't like mushy food, and that's probably
why I'll never have it again.
Speaker 2: We tried several things. We tried the kerneken is that kranneken,
I think, which is basically a trifle but delicious, very
very good. The Iron Brew Iron brew to drink, which
tastes like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Clough syrup. I didn't like it at all.
Speaker 2: It has a very unique flavor. And the funny thing
you asked people what does it taste like? What is it?
Nobody knows? People are like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, it tasted like children's cold medicine. It
had that really sweet, thick, syrupy feel to it, and
it it had a non specific flavor to it. There
was a slight sort of orange, but I don't even
know if that was psychological, because drink is so bright
orange that you expect it to taste citrusy and maybe
you just fill that blank in I don't know.
Speaker 2: To me, felt a little berry ish. I don't know.
Speaker 1: S I didn't get that anyway, But I did like
Robotus and the kids I had it to.
Speaker 2: And it was all right. I mean, I didn't hate it,
but that was that.
Speaker 1: Edinburgh Castle, Dean Village.
Speaker 2: Dean Village. I highly recommend Dean Village because when you
go online, people take a picture by the by those buildings,
you know, by the bridge, and that's it. They go home. No,
you have to explore the whole area. It is so nice, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely nice to just walk around. There's a river
and then there's like gardens and all that stuff around it.
Speaker 1: It's just beautiful. It's beautiful and beautiful. It looks like
a fairytale village and it looks like, you know, eighteen
sixty never ended. I mean, it's very much a snapshot of.
Speaker 2: A time far from the main city. Yeah, you can
actually walk if you feel like walking, but it's a
long walk. It's like thirty eight minutes.
Speaker 1: In case you can't tell, we're battling our post trip.
Speaker 2: I know we're a little we're lacking sick.
Speaker 1: But I apologize. All right, let's take a short break
and we'll come back and wrap up our trip. Yes, right,
we'll be right back. We're back and we're going to
wrap up our vacation coverage. But we have a few
more things we wanted to talk about Scotland. Yeah, let's yeah,
we want to talk about the Ireland leg of our trap,
but there's a couple more things we want to talk
about in Scotland, in Edinburgh specifically. I know we wanted
to talk you want to talk about Mary King's clothes.
Speaker 2: Which was phenomenon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me explain. I'm gonna let Lorenzo explain
Mary King's clothes, but let me explain that where we
were staying in Edinburgh and where you get. You know,
it's like the tourist attraction of all tourist attraction is
what's called the Royal Mile. And it's literally a mile
long street, all cobblestones leading up a hill and it
leads directly to Edinburgh. It ends at Edinburgh Castle. And
there are tourist attractions all over this mile. There are shops,
there are restaurants, there are bars. It's where you go
to get the Edinburgh experience. And one thing I want
to say about the Royal Mile is it's very much
a tourist it's there, it's you know, I want to
how do I say this. It's a tourist attraction. But
I also want to be clear here. It is an ancient,
historic mile. I mean, you know, it's not something a
threw together and you feel that history. And maybe because
it's not simply some row of shops that actually has
historic significance to it, it's it's very very old. It
doesn't feel like a tourist trap. It doesn't feel chintzy
or anything. There are chintzy gift shops where you can
buy cheap ass kilts and tetels and magnets, but I.
Speaker 2: Didn't think they were as aggressive as in Paris, for example,
and I have and.
Speaker 1: There are also places in any city actually, but in
any European city where you know, you get into a
tourist area and it's just shitty stores and bad restaurants.
And this is not that. The Royal Mile is the
real deal. You will get a real slice of Edinburgh,
but at the Edinburgh. But at the same time you're
you were you also get all your needs as a
as a tourists met. You know, you can buy your souvenirs,
you can have your hagus, you can stop and have
a beer. Saint Giles Cathedral is right there, just stunning.
I was looking at the pictures of Saint Giles Cathedral
yesterday because Lorenzo uploaded the five thousand pictures that he
took on his anyway, I was looking at those pictures
and I was really blown away by how beautiful the
church was. And it's kind of a shame because we
went there on our first day, we met up with
my siblings to go to that church, and uh, we
were up for like thirty sees.
Speaker 2: We just dropped our box, so yeah, we dropped our bags.
We couldn't check any yet, and then we just went
out for a walk. Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: I barely remember that. I'm looking at the pictures and
I'm like, I barely remember going to this church anyway.
It's also where the bagpipers come out and play in
their full Scottish you know regalia and the kilts and
the hats and everything. And Lorenzo took his picture next
to one, and my brother took his picture next to
a much hotter one. We're all looking for the hot
one anyway. Why don't you explain what Mary King's Closes,
which is one of the tourist attractions on the Royal
Mile and a close. They're all over Edinburgh. They're historically significant.
If you want to be reductive about it. It's an alleyway,
but they're very elaborate alleyways in between buildings right on
multiple levels. They like there are labyrinths involved.
Speaker 2: And they're you know, ways to get from one part
of the city to the next, and they're beautiful. I
meant lots of steps, lots of step, yes, lots of steps.
You know, there's a lot of that on Edinburgh, so
you have to get used to it or walk very slow.
But anyway, the most famous one, i'd say is the
real Mary King's Clothes, which they have a tour they open.
I forget when they opened for the public. It was
closed for a long time and then they open for
the public, you know, for tourists, and they have a tour.
The real Americans closed. It's basically a it dates to
like the seventeenth century.
Speaker 1: Yeah, seventeenth century.
Speaker 2: It's pretty much a It's a close that is located
under the Edinburgh City Chambers.
Speaker 1: They built the City Chambers over this close and they
built the City Chambers in like the eighteen hundreds or
the yeah, the late like the late Victorian era. But
for two hundred years prior to that, it was essentially
a tenement or an apartment building. There were it was
on multiple levels. You went down an alleyway, but then
this alleyway branched off and went in right it turns
into an elaborate hidden city and it was six floors
of businesses and merchants and you know, we went through
the whole tour. And part of the reason we're talking
about this is because it's been what little that is
left of that close, because a lot of it was
built over, they have maintained as in its original form,
so you can go toward it. And it's one of
those things where they have people in period costumes who
pretend to be you know, I was. It was you know,
I died in eighteen fifty whatever, and I kind of
hate that stuff. But she was good, and it was
fascinating because you start at the lower level and it's
where the rats and the poor people and the plague is,
and then you move up very and then there's a
middle class level, which is literally a middle class, and
then there's an upper level where you know, merchants live
and you get to go up. Mary Kane was a
burgess and she was right in like the sixteen or
early seventeen hundreds, and the close was named after her,
and go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2: The clothes was named after her, you know, many years later,
but it's pretty much her view of the whole thing.
So you get this this guide dressed like her, and
she's as you know, I'm Mary, I was born and blah,
blah blah. And I usually hate that kind of thing,
I really do. I just don't like it. It's not
my thing. Not saying, you know some people like that,
but I have to say, in this case was very
necessary because you needed guidance.
Speaker 1: You need to know you were looking at now.
Speaker 2: You had no idea what you're going down to or
up to, and you needed someone to tell you exactly
what those rooms were and explain everything. Show the walls,
you know, and it's so dark and cold downstairs.
Speaker 1: Really hard to picture how people lived there. But it
was fascinating because I've never heard of closes before going
to Edinburgh. I didn't know they existed, and I didn't
know I didn't know people ever lived that way.
Speaker 2: And when you go down to the you know, lowest
level where the very poor people lived, she showed rooms
that like tiny, like bathroom size rooms that where sixteen twelve,
sixteen people lived. Yeah, I died and died with no light,
no nothing, So it was very interesting. It's so dark
where you go that she actually has a flashlight. The
guide has a flash light and she shows you things
on the walls, you know, everywhere. I highly recommend it.
It's it's a very interesting part of the history. Uh
and and it gives you a very interesting perspective of things.
How things were, you know back then?
Speaker 1: In anything else in Edinburgh that you wanted to talk about.
We talked about Dean's Village. Did Dean Village?
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only thing I say is there's so many
beautiful things. Scott Monument is gorgeous, all these things that
you everything is absolute as you see online, absolutely beautiful.
The only thing I highly recommend that almost killed me
is that you go to the Ross Fountain to see
the castle from the ross Fountain point of view. We
were walking around the museum, the National Gallery and so
and I decided to go. I thought it was very
close and it was a very very hot day. Tom
said no, I'll stay here, and I went. I almost
died because it was so hot. But just go look
at the pictures on Instagram on our Instagram account. It
is the most beautiful view of the castle from the
Ross Field.
Speaker 1: The only other thing I'll mention is the Witchery, where
we went to dinner for our final night in Edinburgh.
It is a pretty famous restaurant. It's as I said,
it was impressive that Lorenzo found a restaurant where I
don't like anything on the menu because I am not
a picky eater at all. But we got there and listen,
it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: It's gorgeous.
Speaker 1: It's very gothic on the inside. Lorenzo has pictures. If
you want the experience, go for that. But I agreed
with what a lot of online reviewers said was that
the food was nothing.
Speaker 2: No, nothing directly, but it's okay. The food is not bad.
My fish, it's not bad, but the food is not great.
Here's what happened. I'm usually the picky one. I mean,
Tommy's always the one having to, you know, be concerned
about if they have what I what I can eat
every single time you go to a restaurant. So I
thought they were going to have something for him. So,
you know, I just looked at the manuals like, all right,
I'll have this fish done. Didn't even occur to me
that that wasn't something that tom was gonna eat because
he didn't want to eat seafood.
Speaker 1: That we had a lot of seafood. And also there's
a lot of the seafood on that menu was very
much of the fish in cream, a variety of seafood,
which is not my thing.
Speaker 2: So the restaurant has two parts what they call the
old building, the old room and then the garden. We
ate in the old room. I'm not saying it correctly,
but anyway, it's the old part of the restaurant, which
is absolutely gorgeous. Drop that gorgeous. It's so dark with candles,
candle light, you know, it's just beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very moody, very very.
Speaker 2: Medieval, kind of like kind of looking. But always the
food was okay, service was very good. The aw waiters
were very polite, very friendly. Just the food was okay.
But if you want the experience go, I highly recommend it.
It's not that expensive.
Speaker 1: All right, real quick, because we haven't even gotten to
the topic like this week's guest yet. What do you
want to say about Donegal town where we spent a
few days.
Speaker 2: We wanted to go again. We got invited to a
wedding again and I said, of course, because you know,
we wanted to go to Ireland again. This time the
wedding was in a different part of the country Donegal
last time was around no not Goalwie. It was somewhere
in between. Tommy Cavin, Yes, but we ended up going
to go. We took the Boss Tour, but this time
the wedding was in Donegal and we wanted to go.
So we landed in Dublin from Edinburgh and we drove
to Donegal and so we made a quick stop at Mallingah,
which is a.
Speaker 1: Little town in the west of Ireland where my mother's
family is from. And years ago, so my mother's great
great great great grandfather I think, was married to a
woman and they had thirteen children, because of course they
did Ireland in the eighteen sixties and typically were people
in Ireland who have thirteen children. He had trouble feeding them,
and this was during the famine, and he stole a
neighbor's sheep to feed his family and he was arrested
her and he was sent to a work camp in Australia.
It's very Irish diaspora story. There's a million people who
have stories like this in their family. And she got
on a boat with her thirteen kids and came to
New York. So my mother always you know, she had
done my father had actually done research on her family
and everything. Pardon me, I am battling my post vacation cold. Anyway,
So my parents went to Mullingar sometime in the nineteen
nineties and my father had done the research. My brother
in law, Sean had also done a lot of research.
He's an archivist, and they knew the family history. I
don't think my mother grew up hearing the story about
him stealing the sheep. I think that was something that
was Yes, it was uncovered in this research that my
father and my brother in law did. So anyway, they
go to Moulangar, this is thirty years ago, and they're
in a pub as one does when they're in Ireland,
and they're talking to the locals as one does, and
someone asks or she mentions that her family is from
that area, and she's the person they were talking to.
It was the bartender actually said, oh, what's the family name,
and she said tore Me and he said, oh, the
sheep stealers. So that sort of became legend in our
family that, you know, her family was legendary for stealing
sheep in this small town in the west of Ireland. Anyway,
it was very charming, Like a lot of these small
towns in Ireland, they don't overly pretty it up for now.
They that, but it's still innately charming, which I love
because I do. It reminded me of like an old
beach town. Yes that's what it felt like. But yeah,
afternoon there we went to the Carvery Buffet which was
on weekend afternoons and just had lunch there with all
the locals.
Speaker 2: It was phenomenal. And then we you know, we moved
on to Donegal, which we spent a great time to
have a beautiful castle there that we had.
Speaker 1: Pretty much the whole thing all to ourselves, to.
Speaker 2: Ourselves because we we went very early in the morning.
Like I said, we were there for the wedding, so
we didn't have a lot of time to do a
lot of things, but I tried my best. So we
took a bus to a town nearby which they claim
is the oldest town in Ireland called what is it?
Oh my god, god, I can't remember now, sham Bell
and shan and thank you. Charming town.
Speaker 1: Very nice again, one of those rundown towns, but just
very very charming, lots of old buildings and just very
you know, you want to go to places that aren't
necessarily touristy to just sort of get a sense of,
you know, how people live, where people live and I
really enjoyed in there. It was a really really charming town.
And shout out to the mystery lesbian who found us
in the church yard. We you know, as so many
of these towns have, there's one very large church looking
over the town and we decided to go look at
it because it was an old church. That's Bally again,
bally Shannon, yes, and the you know, bally Shannon and
Donegal are very close to the Northern ire They're part
of the Republic, but they're close to Northern Ireland, which
means there is a heavy Protestant uhluence influence there. So
the church is in the area and that is something
I wasn't used to because I haven't been to Northern Ireland.
The churches in the area were not Catholic, they were
Church of Ireland anyway, so this was a Church of
Ireland church had a very very old UH cemetery and
we were walking around the cemetery. Town again, just the
two of us, just a two of us, and this
is not a touristy town, so there aren't a lot
of people there, aren't. There weren't any people there. She
saw she was in the churchyard as well, and I mean,
maybe I shouldn't make assumptions, but my I spoke to
my gay brother and his husband who were there that weekend,
and we described this woman and they were like, oh, no,
she was a lesbian. She had a pair of jords
on and a flannel shirt, and she had a butch haircut.
The way she looked at us and she was grace well,
and I want to say, yeah, yeah, when we have
traveled in the pit that has happened. That happens with
gay people. Sometimes you see each other in a setting
where there are clearly no other gay people, and you
sort of you either know or you So anyway, she
came up to us, and she was Irish and she
came up and she said are you Are you here visiting?
And she said it with a certain sense of wonder
because it really isn't the kind of town you visit.
And well he said yes, And she said, have you
seen the famine mound? And I said no, And so
she said, let me show you, and she walked us
around to the back of the church. She wasn't a local,
she was actually visiting for the day as well. She
said her mother was from there. But she showed it
to us, and that you know, famine melms exist in
all over Ireland, but I'd never actually had one pointed
out to me. And it was, you know, a mass grave.
During the famine, they just would scoop up all the
Catholics and dump them in a mass grave behind their
beautiful church, English church. And she she relayed the whole
story to us in very bitter tones, and I was like, yes,
I hear you.
Speaker 2: Sister, and the and sadly, you can't do much about it.
It's not like you can clean it up.
Speaker 1: And it's not a hill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a hill.
Speaker 1: They put a rock on top of it, but there's
no monument, there's no nothing. And these are not uncommon.
You can find these in Irish towns anyway.
Speaker 2: So it added some interesting, you know, perspective, and it
was nice that she pointed out. We thanked her very
much and anyway, so then, uh, after the wedding, we
all went back to Dublin. The rest of the family
flew back to Philadelphia, but we decided to stay a
few more days because we wanted to spend you know
a few more days in Doubling. And I love Doubling.
I think I love it.
Speaker 1: I think we had a lovely time there.
Speaker 2: We had a lovely time there, and we went to
the Bleni Museum for the first time. We did things
that we hadn't done on our first trip because our
first trip we pretty much covered everything. But this time
we were like, all right, let's just go to places
we haven't been before. The Bleni Museum. I highly recommend it.
It's one of the things we did.
Speaker 1: Doublenia saying it so quickly. Double Nia Museum is the
Viking Museum.
Speaker 2: Right next to the christ Church, which is my favorite
church in Dublin. Anyway, we had a wonderful time, wonderful time.
I want to thank the people of Ireland and Scotland.
The friendliest people have ever met my life. They're so sweet,
so nice, so friendly, at least to us again, and
we had a wonderful time.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. All right, let's take another break and
when we come back. Here's what we're going to talk about.
We're going to quickly run through the Emmy nominations because
we're very behind on that. Then we're I'm sorry, I'm
rasping into this my microphone and I apologize, uh, And
then we're doing little House on the Prairie. Yes, we
actually watched it, and we have opinions. And then how's
of the Dragon House of the Dragon? Correct, we'll be
right back where back? And now we're going to jump
right into the Emmy nominations, which came out while we
were on vacation, and we promise you we were going
to have thoughts when we record their next podcast. So
here we go. First up, I'm thrill but Wire those
By got a historic number of nominations, and I hope
everybody sweeps.
Speaker 2: Now we'll talk about it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, what else that I'm not particularly interested in snubs,
although I am kind of happy that someone like Jeremy
Allen White did not get nominated for the Bear because
that show was wildly over nominated. But you know, you're
just I also think it's good that Stranger Things did
not get any nominations because honestly, that final season sucked.
Speaker 2: I agree, but we had like what to k other
day age as usual, the you know, hacks and uh
snow horses.
Speaker 1: Pit of course, the pit, the pit, the pit, hacks, hacks, hacks.
I really don't want hacks to win anything. And I
know you must be furious that Meganstalter was nominated.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just annoyed that every pretty much everybody,
yeah yeah, and they were annoyed that that, I forget
her name. The other actress who part of the office
didn't get nominated because.
Speaker 1: Jabby Hoffman, like, are you kidding me? I didn't think
any of those people deserve All right, let's steal a few.
Let's run through some of these. The nominations for Drama Series,
The Diplomatic, Gilded Age, and Night of the Seven Kingdoms, Paradise,
The Pit, Floribus, Slow Horses, Your Friends and Neighbors.
Speaker 2: Your friends and neighbors really right.
Speaker 1: The criticallly like it. I'd love love to see Slow
Horses get it because this show is I mean, I
think it's the critics love it, and I think it
has its audience, but it doesn't get the kind of
no that's juice that so many other shows get. I
understand why The Pit is nominated so much. It really
is an excellent show, much like Hacks was an excellent show.
But the problem with the Emmys is they over nominated.
They just overdo it. But I would not suggest that
they don't deserve this nomination.
Speaker 2: It's a fine line, like you stop nominating them because
you know you want to nominate other people, you know,
even though they did a good job. You know, it's
it's a tricky situation. But at the same time, it's like,
I mean, how many times you know these people are
gonna get nominated.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised the Guilded Age got nominated. I really don't
think it's on the same level as some of these
other shows. I'm also pleasantly surprised that A Night of
the Seven Kingdoms was nominated, and happy to see the
sloribis there. Honestly, there's no one in this group that
I would be mad if they well, I know, actually
there's no one in this group I would be mad
if they want. If I had to pick which one
I want to win, I honestly, even though I love
Pluribus and I love A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms,
I would probably pick slow Horses that's shown deserves some recognition.
Speaker 2: In terms of deserving Yes, I see it's a little.
Speaker 1: Horses, but I can't make a prediction as who as
to who's I mean, I think the pit is probably
the most likely. All Right, drama lead actress Cary kuon
the guilded Age Chase, Infinity, The Testaments. That's actually a
little surprising, but she was in the Best Picture Winner
last year. So that's what happens is with the Oscars,
you get a gloss on you and it's it starts
moving on to your next project. I mean, that's why
it's a big deal when people get nominated or when
people are in nominated films. It's very good for their career.
Speaker 2: That's why they do the Red Carpet, they do all
that stuff. Yeah, they get exposure.
Speaker 1: All right. Carry kuon The Guildeage Chase, Infinity, The Testaments,
Carrie Russell, The Diplomat, Rayes Seahorn, Ploribus, Zendeia Euphoria. Why
do I feel like this is going to Zendaiya. Yeah,
because she's got so much buzz on her. It's the
final season. They killed off her character, didn't they. Yeah,
so oh it's probably and they want her to show
up and they want her to bring Tom Holland with her.
Speaker 2: So yeah, hope Eckett.
Speaker 1: Who would I give it to? Well, I haven't seen
The Testaments. I haven't seen this season of The Diplomat.
I loved ray Seahorn and Plorabas right right. I don't
have a thought here. I think this is actually a
very limited It doesn't really get into it right now.
Speaker 2: I think I haven't watched. I don't like Pluribus, but
I think she deserves it. I mean she's great, she
is great in it, she really is. She's the whole
show pretty much. So yeah, i'd say her my choice,
all right, nots India at all anyway.
Speaker 1: Drama lead actor Sterling K. Brown Paradise, Gary Oldman, Slow Horses,
Mark Ruffalo, tesk rufus Sewell The Diplomat, Noah Wiley The Pit. Honestly,
I don't have a thought. I would give Gary Oldman
because I like that.
Speaker 2: Show, Slow Horses, but I think I haven't.
Speaker 1: Seen any of the other ones. I mean I saw
the Pit.
Speaker 2: But The Diplomat is good, but I don't think it
is that great. I think season one was great, but
then it's all right now, Noah, It's gonna wain of.
Speaker 1: Course, probably all right. Drama supporting actress Taylor Deared in
The Pit, Fiona d'Oro The Pit, Alis and Janny The Diplomat,
Katherine le Nassa The Pit, Sepidei Moaffi The Pit, Julianne Nicholson, Paradise,
Caroline Vidra, Ploribus.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, it's gonna be one of the one of the
book girls, of course. All Right. Drama supporting actor The Pit,
The Pit, The Pit, to Bit the Pit. Patrick Billy
crought up The Morning Show, Sean Hatosi, The Pit, Jaron Howell,
The Pit, Jack Lowdon Slow Horses, Tom Pelfrey, Task, Carlos,
Manuel Vega, Ploribus. I did love him in Ploribus. He
was really good.
Speaker 2: Again, is this a less season of The Pit?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, Jesus, here we go. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I again, I'm not
up on The Pit. I've watched it, but I I
haven't watched them. It's not much of the most.
Speaker 2: It's not my kind of show. I know it's a
great show. I know. I know they do a great job,
but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not into medical procedurals. I know it's very good.
I don't need people to tell me that I should
watch it. I did catch a few episodes. High quality work.
Good luck to all, I agree.
Speaker 2: All Right.
Speaker 1: Comedy series Abbot Elementary, The Bear, The Bear, Please Hacks,
Marco's Got Money Troubles, nobody wants its only murders in
the building, Shrinking, Widow's Bay, wid Dose Bay.
Speaker 2: I mean, if they don't give it to Widow's Bay,
I will scream Hacks.
Speaker 1: Baby Now, Widows bake them on. I love Abbot Elementary,
they love the Bear, but Widows Bay is the most
inventive show of the year.
Speaker 2: Margo's Got Money Troubles.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get mad at that one. One.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I think about the show. I
think it's a great show. They're all very talented. But
all I can see is all I can say is
the actors, the actual actress performing.
Speaker 1: That's true. I mean, it's Nicole Kidman, it's El Fanning, It's.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's my Yeah, but I can't focus on the character.
Everything everybody looks like, yeah, a movie star. It's true,
all right.
Speaker 1: Comedy lead actress Quinta Brunson, Abbot Elementary, Aoa deb The Bear,
El Fanning, Marcus, Got Money Troubles, Lisa Kudra, the Comeback,
Jean Smart Hacks. You know what give us to Lisa Coudro.
I know that character has been it's been two decades
working on that character. Yeah, and yeah, it deserves the recognition.
It's really really good work. And it would be nice
to see someone other than Jean Smart win it. She's
going to win, or Quinta Brunson, She's going to win
Smart again, all right, I would hate that actually, and
I love Jean Smart. She has snagged several many Emmys.
Five I don't think it's that many. Comedy lead actor
Yay Abdlomdine wonder Man, Steve Carell, Rooster, Matthew Reese Widow's Bay,
Jason Siegel Shrinking, Martin Short only murders in the building.
I really don't know how it doesn't go to Matthew. Yes, you,
he was high, hilarious shows so so so fun.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Yes.
Speaker 1: Comedy Supporting actress Dale Dickey Widow's Bay, Hannah Einbinder Hacks,
Jennelle James Abbott, Elementary, Katio Flynn or Kate O'Flynn widows Bay,
Michelle fay for Marcus Cot money Troubles, Megan'stalter Hacks, Jessica
Williams shrinking.
Speaker 2: How on earth can you put h Megan Stalter in
the same case?
Speaker 1: Or Dale Dickey and Megan's Yeah, I'm sorry that. Listen.
I don't get angry about her the way Lorenzo does.
I think she has an appeal. I think she can
be very funny. I think her appeal is more limited
to like front facing camera video, you know, social media video.
She was very funny in that Millia. You give her
a script and a character to play, and I'm sorry
she comes off not on the same level as the
other actors, so to put, she's not an actress. Okay,
she's a comic. I don't even mind that performance all
that much, but I do not think that is an
acting award level performance. And I think it's insulting to
some of the other actors.
Speaker 2: Product of social media, and I'll stop at that.
Speaker 1: Personally, I think Katie o' flynn should Yeah, I keep
saying Katie kat o flynn should be get widows, Bet
should get them. I can't a sentence should win. But
also Dale Dickey should win. I mean that that, you know,
dead baby dead monologue.
Speaker 2: Dead baby, dead baby, dead baby. Come on, that was brilliant. Yes,
that was hilarious, hilarious, So I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I just don't want Hannah Einbinder or Meganstallter to win this.
I just don't.
Speaker 2: I hope it's Kate because every single episode she is phenomenal.
She is hilarious.
Speaker 1: Okay, anyway, Yeah, Comedy supporting actor Coleman Domenico, the four seasons,
Paul w Down's hacks, Harrison Ford's shrinking, Nick Offerman, Marco's
Got Money trouble, Stephen root Widow's Bay, Michael Uri shrinking Tyler,
James williams Abbot ELAMANSI.
Speaker 2: Again, Paul w Down, are you joking? He is not.
He's a big nothing on the show. I'm sorry, he's
a big nothing on the show.
Speaker 1: It's just I don't I'm not mad at those characters.
I don't mind them. I just do not think he
did anything that deserves an Emmy in terms of his acting.
I know he's the show creator and everything, but in
terms of that performance, I'm like, that's not an performance.
Speaker 2: They just pick people like listen. I adore Coleman Domingo.
But the fourth season is a horrible show.
Speaker 1: Apparently the second season was better, better.
Speaker 2: But it's a horrible show.
Speaker 1: You know, so dated we're saying, but let's face it, it's
going to Harrison Ford.
Speaker 2: I do oh, oh really, oh yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: Well, he did win already, didn't that's true. No, he
won a Lifetime Achievement Award last year. Yeah, and you
know he's Yeah, he's old. He's old, and he's a legend,
so they'll.
Speaker 2: Probably get it for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I'm scrolling through, scrolling through, I don't
know limited series lead TV movie lead actress Claire Dane's
The Beast and Me, Sally Field, remarkably bright creatures, Carrie Mulligan, Beef,
Sarah Pigeon love Story, Sarah Snook all her fault. I
have no opinion on any of these.
Speaker 2: I think Sarah is gonna win because this love story,
Sarah picion. I have to say, Kerry Mulligan was phenomena in.
Speaker 1: Beef was a big question. You don't think it's going
to Sally Field. Maybe, yes, they're going to give it
to Sally Field and Harrison Ford, just so they get
those two legends.
Speaker 2: The Beast in Me was terrible. It wasn't good at all.
So yeah, Beef, we didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't even finish it. I did not like it
at all.
Speaker 2: I just didn't I like the performance, you know, individually.
But yeah, this season wasn't Great.
Speaker 1: All Right, Limited Series TV movie lead actor Rizamed Bait,
Jason Bateman, Bateman, Black Rabbit, Charlie Hannah, Monster, The Ed
Guynes Story, Oscar, Isaac Beef, Matthew Reese, The Beast on
me again. I don't have a Oscar.
Speaker 2: Is actually good. And Charlie he was good. Charlie Hunt
he was good. I didn't like Monster, It's not my
kind of show, but he was insanely good. Yeah, that's it.
That's that those are my choice. Probably hate it's gonna win.
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna wrap it up. We're not going
to get anything like best Reality competition program.
Speaker 2: Oh, supporting actress since we did the actor, there's dakotea
of Fanny. You know you go.
Speaker 1: I don't have it in front of me. Oh, I
thought I Limited Series TV movie, Supporting Actress. We'd actually
didn't do supporting, but I guess we'll do that. Linda
CARTERLINIY DT see the reason I haven't seen anything. Linda
Carterolini dt F Saint Louis, Dakota Fanning all her Fault,
Laurie Metcalfe metcalf Monster, The Ed guine Story, Joyce Sunday
DTF Saint Louis hu Jung Yun Beef, Constant Zemmer love
story I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Was very brief and and she she was all right.
Linda CARLINI is very funny in DTF Saint Louis. I
watched the whole thing. Highly recommend it. It's a weird show,
but very good show.
Speaker 1: All right. Limited series TV movie supporting actor Jason Bateman
dt F Saint Louis, Richard Got Halfman, David Harbor dt
F Saint Louis, Richard Jenkins, dt F Saint Louis, Charles Milton, Beef,
nick Offerman, Death by Light, Oh, nick Offerman. I loved
him in Death by Like Me.
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 1: He was so good in that.
Speaker 2: Again, Jason Bateman was great in DTF Saint Louis. Also
the weirdest show I have watched in a long time.
Half Man, but Richard God again, I don't know how
you pronounce his name is. He's very good at it,
but he's a weird My god, what a weird show. Yeah,
really f stop show. But he was good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that guy's got to work through his isshes. I
think instead of getting budgets for TV shows anyway that
can clude your thoughts on uh this year's Emmy nominations.
Let's jump right into Little House. I have a lot
of things I want to say right which I didn't
think I would. So Netflix has dined a remake of
Little House on the Prairie. I don't feel like I
need to explain this, but in I knew it was
an iconic, legendary pardon me television series in the nineteen
seventies and nineteen eighties, and Gen X and baby boomers
have some very very strong feelings about that that show,
those characters. When the show was announced, I was like, Okay,
I guess. I mean, I'm not opposed to them redoing it.
The old show it debuted over fifty years ago, went
off the air over forty years ago, and it really
isn't in reruns any I mean that you can find it,
but I don't think it's like part of the culture
the way it once was.
Speaker 2: Right I Netflick announced and we put it on our site,
and I was like, well, that's kind of exciting Sometimes
a show I like, I don't mind having it redone.
The only thing I will scream if they redo it
is the sound of music. But that's the only movie no, no,
but anything else, yeah, why not? So I saw we
posted on our site the preview and all that, and
I was like, yeah, that looks interesting because what I
like about these remakes is that they have the money
and the technology to do something great. Right, you know,
it's gonna look better, it's going to look incredible, and
the costumes and the people and everything. So I'm I
always I'm always interested. And Netflick gave us the screeners
way back. I can't even remember when. So I watched
them a long time ago. I watched the whole thing
a long time ago, and then all of a sudden
we never heard about it anymore. I was like, why
is the Netflix taking so long to drop this? And
I was a little worried. I was like, it's that
because it's not good. They're trying to fix it or something,
because sometimes that happened. They dropped the screen iss so
that people can watch it and give their opinion and
they go back and fix it. But so I watched
it a long time ago, and then Tom wanted to
talk about it on the podcast. I was like, Oh,
let me rewatch the whole thing. And I have to
say my second watch, I love the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Here's what I want to say. Okay, first off, I
don't have some sort of connection to the old show.
I watched it and when I was a kid. I'm
pretty sure I loved it when I was a kid,
but it's not something i've watched in the years since.
In fact, last night I went and I found I
watched an old episode just so I could have a
point of comparison to this, because no, I don't have like, oh,
I remember this one. I remember that. I mean, I
remember the episode where Mary went blind or whatever, but
I don't really.
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with the TV show, and that's my
point of reference. I love those characters, loved everything about it.
Speaker 1: I mean I did, but I don't have strong You
haven't watched that show in forty years.
Speaker 2: Since, but I watched all the time, many times.
Speaker 1: So I still remember my grandmother, who lived with us
when I was a kid, saying that she would have
kicked missus Olsen in the face. And my grandmother was
not someone who spoke that way, but she has hate
that family and anyway, so when I and also, and
this might seem unusual for a boy for a man,
but I read all the books and the reason I
read all the books is because someone bought my one
of my sisters a box set.
Speaker 2: And how many books, it's like, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, seven or eight, and I was probably too old
for them. I think these were bought for my younger sisters.
But I was curious and no one was reading them,
and I picked up the one about her husband the
first before I picked up the other books. I think
it's like the third book in the series, and it's
about him growing up as a little boy on a farm.
So to me, you know, that was my entry into it,
and it was enjoyable, and I thought, all right, I'll
read the rest of them, and I did. I read
the entire series. Now again, I don't have strong memories
of the series, the book series. I remembered tearing through
them and finding them interesting enough, and it was a
nice way to compare what you to what you saw
on the TV show. I don't remember. Again, I was
still young. I was no more than a young teenager.
I don't remember having any revelation like, boy, these books
are kind of racist or anything like that. That was
something I had to learned about much later that that,
you know, Laura Ingles Wilder and her daughter Rose Wilder Lane,
who basically co wrote these books. First off, they had
very problematic politics. They were both libertarians, they were both
opposed to everything. Yeah, and part of the books, the
books were written partially in response to that. There was
a political component to how those books were written, and
that component is that they largely they didn't completely fictionalize
these accounts, but they cleaned them up, and they they
wanted to tell a specific story of heart of family
overcoming hardship all on its own without anybody's help a little,
and also scary Indians and scary black people.
Speaker 2: Right. My understanding is that the first season of on Netflix,
it's based on the third book because Laura was too
young in the first and the second book, and they
wanted to have her a little older. That's my understanding.
I could be wrong. So there are eight books I
just checked. Maybe because it just obviously it's already renewed
for second season, maybe they'll do flashbacks and go back
to the first and the second book.
Speaker 1: Well, and so we'll say, why don't we take a
short break and we'll come back and get into the
actual series and how we feel about it. We'll be
right back. We're back talking about Little House on the Prairie.
So I didn't go into this. I didn't go into
this with much of anything. I didn't have a lot
of thoughts about it, even though yes, I had a
connection to the old TV show, I read the old books,
but this was very, very long a time ago, and
I would not count either one of those as formative
experiences for me. There are TV shows from my childhood
that are loom large in my memory, but Little House
is simply not one of them. I I watched it,
everybody watched it, but I just don't have a lot,
see I. I didn't come into it with, well, they
better do this and they better do that.
Speaker 2: Oh it was one of my favorite shows because I
also like western So the whole thing was, you know,
my thing. When I when Netflix announced the show, I
was I was curious. I was like, all right, uh,
how how are they going to do these stories without
sounding to racist? Or are they going to approach this
you know or the you know, how are they going
to approach all these hot topics and the cast and
all that, you know, how are they going to do it?
So I was curious they couldn't just do the old
version anymore.
Speaker 1: So here's my thing. It's not bad. Uh, It's a
perfectly enjoyable family oriented drama. Uh, it's it's probably every
once in a while I would get all up about
some thing on the show, and then I realized I
would pull back and go, you know, it really is
meant for kids, Like this is a family drama. They
are the lead character as a little girl. She is
the entry character, the identification character. So yes, this show
is in many ways meant for kids. So I have
some complaints and criticism about it, but ultimately I would
wind up describing a very different show. Here's my point.
It's very pretty, and that is my main issue with
it is that it is so pretty. And I did
I went back to look at the old TV show
because I was like, am I misremembering it? And the
old TV show was fairly pretty as well. It was
a very pretty vide. And when I say pretty, I
mean there's a scene where thereby a creek the little
girls and they're in white dresses with flower crowns, and
I'm just like, Okay, everyone was filthy back then, Okay
in that they were not, And I'm not suggesting they
were rolling around in their filth. I mean, people wore
clean clothes, people showered, you know, they didn't actually, but
it's all white teeth and clean fingernails and shiny hair.
And it was like that on the seventies TV show
as well. So this is not a new complaint. But
the show is very pretty. I mean, at one point
there's like tablecloths and flowers in vases, and I'm like,
these are pioneer people. They are living a subsistence level existence.
There was a point in the first four or five
episodes where I was and there's only eight episodes where
I was like, well, hell are these people eating? What
are they eating? Because they're not doing anything to put
again food. And that would be a family of four
on the prairie in eighteen seventy whatever every single day
would be at to figure out what you're gonna eat
that day, because you have to realize that the setup
for there. They arrive in Independence, Kansas, they have nothing.
They don't even have a house. They have a wagon
with whatever they took with them. But he has to
build a house and they have to figure out a subsistence,
you know, some and the question of what they're eating.
Isn't even answered until like the sixth or seventh episode,
where suddenly a crop of corn springs up next to
the house. We never saw him plant a single seed
to you know, plow a field. Nothing. That work is
backbreaking and it requires a team of people. But somehow
he did that on all on his own in between episodes. Similarly,
and this was actually when I enjoyed the series. I
truly did, and I I don't think it's foolish to
expect a certain level of realism as to the hardship
of that life, even for a family drama for children.
I think you can get into a little bit more
of just how hard. There was a snow storm at
one point, and they were all excited about the snow,
and I'm like, no, no, these people would be freezing.
Speaker 2: They would worry about whether they were.
Speaker 1: Going to survive it. There's no insulation, there's no heater.
I don't even think there was a fireplace in that cabin.
They had like a stove. Oh no, wait, they did
have a fireplace. Yes, he built that whole cabin with
him and this other guy. And that's the other thing.
And this is the problem when you have stories with
children in them, and you want that story to take
place over a long period of time. I mean they
showed up, He built a house, she took an entire
pregnancy to term, had a baby, They grew an entire crop,
and those little girls did not age a day. They
looked exactly the same as they did in the first episode.
And I'm like, it's got to be a year and
a half later they would And that's asking for a
different show. I'm asking for a show where they show
dirty fingernails, where they show people freezing to death, where
they show people wondering where they're gonna eat next. See
that's what happened to her men, and where they recast
the young actresses, you know, so to show that time
has pit. But that's not what they're going to do.
And I can make peace with that. But the Christmas
episode was the episode where Caroline gives birth, and I
was like, come the f on, just a couple you know,
she breathes, She's not even a scene of her pushing,
there's nothing. She's just like, I'm nervous, my sisters aren't here.
I've never done this before. And then you hear baby crying,
and all I could think not to be brutal here
because they're in a one room cabin in the snow,
and I'm just like, okay, that that bed would be messy.
And i mean there's like a little white curtain and
I'm like, that curtain would be splashed. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: See, that's what happens when you watch a show with
someone who went to film school.
Speaker 1: It's like, come on, she's a woman on the prayer,
a pioneer woman giving birth. You cannot even kids can
handle that, you know what. That would be a hard situation.
That would be a bad situation. Didn't even have to
see it. But oh and that was the other thing.
Because it was Christmas Day, of course a bunch of
people showed up. Because I'll get into this that they
treat the prairie like it's suburban New Jersey or something
like that. At one point, the the little girl, good Eagle,
the Native American girl, she's going into town for something
and the mother is like, okay, i'll pick you up later,
and I'm like, an Indigenous woman in eighteen seventy would
never have uttered that sentence. It's just not how i'll
pick you up? What in her car.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 1: Yes, So at Christmas Day, everybody shows up near hours
after Caroline gave birth, and she is walking around, she's
holding a dinner, she's sitting at a table. I'm like,
that woman would not have left bed for like three days,
are you kidding me? And she would not have had
any visitors. People are coming in from a snowstorm to
a newborn baby. And I realized that, you know, they
didn't know things about germs and shit like that, but
come on, and that's when they lose I told you
I le to say about this show, and that's when
they lose me. I'm like, I know it's a fantasy.
I know it has to be prettified for people. I
get it, But there you don't. I mean, you could
at least acknowledge that giving birth in that situation is
extremely dangerous and messy. You don't have to show everything
but to completely gloss over it. Similarly, like, I realize
we have to go with a fantasy here, and somehow
he's feeding his family of four, but we need to
see him planting. We need to see him doing some
of that farming work, because even a city boy like
me knows that is backbreaking work. That would take months, Like,
you can't do that off camera. You have to acknowledge it, right.
There was a scene, there was an episode where the
whole family had fever, and you know, you're watching this
episode and pardon me, I do want to acknowledge that
the show does acknowledge that there's hardship here. You know,
people get exposed to things. There's danger, there's wolves, and
there's you know, all kinds of stuff. There's that the
guy goes down to the bottom the well and he
almost dies.
Speaker 2: But it's dealt with very quickly.
Speaker 1: It's all dealt with very quickly, very clean, it is.
And the one where they all had the fever, I'm
watching it and I'm thinking, well, no one in this
cabin is going to die because they're all the they're
the Ingles family. I know they're going to live. So
all the drama goes out of that scene. And it
made me realize, you know, and I think the old
show did this. You can't kill off the Ingles family.
You can't put them through too too much because they
are the lead characters. Yes, Mary goes blind and I
think Caroline loses a baby or whatever, but you can't
have them go through too much because they're the leads.
So in that instance, what you do, and like I said,
I think the old show did this is you put
other characters through shit to show how bad things could get.
And that was the thing with that fever episode. I
was like, you know, I need to see a cabin
of dead people, right so that now I'm worried that
this will happen to the Ingles, like they had that
doctor going around and like they could have just had
a scene where he comes upon a family and they
all died, and then everything that's happening and the Ingles
family cabin becomes that much more. And that's the thing.
The show never wants to get to that point. It
brings certain things up, but it never really engages with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry everyone. So here's where we bring up the
indigenous question. The way the show, you know, focused on
the Indigenous people, the way I mean the old show
never did. The books were racist as hells during the Indigenous.
Speaker 2: I don't remember did they have did they have a
black people in in the on the TV series? I
don't remember that.
Speaker 1: Yes they did. True, and actually doctor Tanner is a
real character from the books. There was a black doctor
in an Independence.
Speaker 2: I see. I never read the books, but that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting to introduce those characters.
Speaker 1: I think it's admirable. I think it's the correct choice.
I think they there's no way to write that all
like all the white people in Independence are stealing land
from the Osage, and right, the original TV series as
well as the books, never really acknowledged that. But this series,
the entire season is that's the main question is how
are we going to live with these people? And do
we even have the right to live here? And are
they going to stay or is the government going to
force them out? So and I'm glad the show wrestled
with these things, but in the end only one thing
could happen, which is that the Osage all get forced out.
And you have to somehow do that in a way
that doesn't make the Engles family look like monsters, right,
And they kind of flub it on that they.
Speaker 2: Introduced to subjects. But but you know, but it's very
lightly like the whole thing when when two Native American
men robbed them, robbed them and got into the cabin,
you know, and did what they did.
Speaker 1: I mean, we know that's from the books.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know historically that they you know, a
lot more happened in those situations. But of course they're
not going to do any any scene like that.
Speaker 1: But that is a scene from the books. And they didn't,
you know, they didn't beat them or rape them. In
the books. According to Laura, they came, they stole some
things in the left and what the series does is
they And that's actually a scene apparently in the pilot
episode of the original series. They it's it's the men
come into the cabin and steal things, but it's stayed
out in this version because the men are given dialogue, right,
and that dialogue is the two of them discussing how
these white people have stolen everything from them, have hunted
their meat, have chopped down their trees. And that's the
admirable part here, is that they are giving voice to
the o sage and they're not making it, you know,
entirely about the white people's perspective. They also, I thought
this was admirable, made Caroline a little racist. She gets
over it very quickly, and she becomes this paragon of
racial equality by the end of the season. And I
did not find it believable at all. But I like
that they at least allowed her to have that moment
that felt like, all right, well, she sounds like a
nineteenth century moment, and she sounds a little racist.
Speaker 2: A little hint there because when they ask who's the
other students? Who else she's she's teaching and she doesn't
say right, So that yeah.
Speaker 1: They also allowed the Charles at least early on in
the story in the season. If you've ever read the books,
or if you've ever actually, if you've read about them,
and there have been books written about the Ingles family
that weren't written by Laura Ingleswilder, he was a loser
and he was an idiot, and he was a really
irresponsible man who put his family through hell, and they
bounced around from state to state to state, and he
had crops fail and he had houses burned down, and
he just wasn't a stable man. And the show wrestles
with that a little bit. They first off, he makes
some choices and like, what are you an idiot? Like?
He makes some choices that seem a little reckless and everything,
and the season, the story takes him to task more
than once for not being honest with his family. His
daughter takes him to task word his wife.
Speaker 2: Things from his wife.
Speaker 1: So they allow him to be they allow her to
be a little racist and him to be a little stupid,
but they really don't take it far they I mean,
obviously they can't. You can't have lead characters that are
dumb and racist. You have to sort of teach them
a lesson. So everything sort of gets glossed, everything gets washed,
and you know, so, yes, we're talking about the play
to the Indigenous, we're talking about the os Age being
forced out, but we're doing it in such a way
so that Caroline and Charles feel bad, you know, and
this is just anist, but they're still going to What
I loved is how they ended it this season. Yes,
because here's the thing. The Ingles family in the books
bounced around all over the place. They you know, the
the TV series in the seventies and eighties, it kept
it was like nine or ten seasons of them living
in one place, and that wasn't always the case with them.
The books were all over the place. They moved at spoiler,
the season ends with them leaving. And I didn't think
they were going to do it, like literally right up
until the end. I was like, they're not going to
do it, They're not going to be bold enough to
do it. But they did it because they introduced all
these side characters, all these people in the town, and
all of them are gone. Now that I do love.
That's very true to the pioneer existence.
Speaker 2: I was very happy with that because I was like,
I was kind of fall in love with those people
in a way, and then we're not going to see
They're not going to see them going to be introduced
to a new group of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they So the season ends with them and
they're supposedly heading to Walmut Grove, which is where the
TV series was set, and they show the ols in
general stores, so obviously they're going to have the Uls.
I think they were already cast, but they can't wait.
Speaker 2: They can't wait to see them family.
Speaker 1: But it's it's a perfectly pleasant show. I think it's
perfectly it's perfect for kids, like I would recommend this
to anyone who your family, who if you want some
family time, this is a good show. My criticisms are
because I would have enjoyed a grittier, more realistic take
on things, but that's clearly not what this show is
meant to be, so taking it on its own terms,
it's a pleasanter version. The men are hot.
Speaker 2: The men what I was like, what the hell?
Speaker 1: I don't remember all the men on the old show
being this, But every time I turned around, well, you
know why because they shot this in Canada, so it's
all these hot Canadian actors, you know, playing like pioneer men.
But yeah, there's a lot of really good looking looking yes,
and that's it. That's our thoughts on Little House recommended,
but only if you want light entertainment, if you're looking
for pioneer life or anything like that, I'm sorry. It's
not what I like in it. Too is the original
nineteen eighty five Anne of green Gables. That's what it
reminded me most of in terms of its esthetic. And
I don't think that aesthetic works for this because Anti
green Gables was not about pioneer people and subsistence living.
It was about people who had a pretty nice life
so you could pritify it. That was my issue with
this version is that it's too too pretty. And the
thing about the Anna green Gables connection, I think that
was very deliberate. And in the episode where they have
the fever. Laura has a hallucination where she sees her grandmother.
And I watched that scene and I'm like, who is
that woman? Because they really seemed to focus on the
grandmother who came out of nowhere. And it turns out
that's Megan Follows, who was Anna green Gables. I did
not recognize her because forty some odd years had passed
and she's old enough to play a grandmother now. But
when I realized that was her and it was a cameo,
she's uncredited in it, I was like, all right, so
this is deliberate. You don't give someone like that a
cameo unless you were making a statement about what kind
of show you're making. And this, Yeah, she's kind of
passing the torts from that show to this one. And
that's fine. I would have liked, like I said, dirty
fingernails and you know, dry hair.
Speaker 2: And blood splashed all over buring bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, damn it, bare lest. She couldn't scream a
little bit, she couldn't make it. Oh my god, she's
walking around in a dressing gown an hour later, taking
people in and serving them. I don't know. Rabbit stew on.
Speaker 2: Christmas Day, Oh please, all.
Speaker 1: Right, another break and we'll be back and we'll wrap
up by talking about game. I'm not Game of Thrones.
House of the Dragon. We are back and we have
three episodes of House of the Dragon to get through.
We just talked about this while the mics were off,
because you know, we went away on vacation. We have
not We had to catch up on three episodes by
last night. There's no way we can just recap all three.
We would be here for another hour and a half.
Speaker 2: However, I have to say I really enjoyed them.
Speaker 1: I am enjoying this season quite a bit. My initial
complains about this season are mostly dealt with, except for one,
which I will get to. But the clarity of the
writing is I'm very grateful for because it is very
easy to keep track of what's going on. And when
the season started, I was like, I have no idea,
I can't remember. It's been eleven years since I watched
an episode. But they're doing a very good job of
bouncing around from location to location. And when Game of
Thrones was really hitting, when it was on all cylinders,
when it was at its best, this is what it
was like. They sent characters off in all these different
directions exactly, and you were able to follow along on
each of their journeys.
Speaker 2: So I like kind of like Lord of the Rings too,
you know, like the different stories going on at the
same time, different parts of the planet very much.
Speaker 1: So one of the things. You know, it was a
shock when the season great basically started with when you
were taking the Throne. I did not think they were
going to go directly to that. But by the end
of last night's episode, I realized, you know, we are
in the endgame here. There's only another season after this.
There's only like really, yeah, there's only like I don't know,
ten eleven episodes left to tell this story. And if
I mean, I'm not I don't think I'm spoiling anything
by suggect. If you've seen Game of Thrones, then you
have to realize this story is going to end badly
for almost everybody in the story. So we are heading
towards the endgame, and I'm feeling that sense of doom, like,
oh wow, this is not going to work out. What
I like about Rhanira's reign is and you know, we
can unpack this. In fact, this is something I think
we should unpack rather than trying to recap the whole thing.
There's a lot of discussion this season among critics that
the show is doing a very good job, of course,
correcting on the basically the Danaris story from Game of Thrones,
which is largely considered they fucked up that story. They
never got that character to the point where her going
crazy made sense. Her heel turn at the in the
final two episodes was considered poorly handled.
Speaker 2: Well, people are making the connection that this one is
going crazy too. Well.
Speaker 1: That's my point is that I think a lot of
a lot of critics are pointing out they are actually
doing the Danera story correctly this time, right, and they
So it's interesting to watch Rhaniera And I gotta say,
Emma Darcy Man, holy shit, they are going to get
nominated for this season, and I really really hope they
win because the work they're doing, the subtlety of the
work that they're doing as well as the more powerful
still like when her son dies, you know, yeah, yeah,
well I'm not getting into that again. The actor is
non binary, but the.
Speaker 2: Character is well we do anyway.
Speaker 1: Anyway. Uh So I like that Rhinera is not a
good queen.
Speaker 2: No, she's terrible.
Speaker 1: She's not good at it. And this is kind of
what I want to unpack, Like when you look at
the story of the Dance of the Dragons and the
Song of Ice and Fire, Ultimately these stories come down
to queen's in a patriarchal system. It was Seriously and
Denaris and Sansa at the end of Game of Thrones
all trying to exert power, and now it's Rhinia, and
prior to her, it was Allison exerting their power, and
the series, both series the franchise seems to be coming
down on the you shouldn't let women rule because a
bad at it, Like that's the story over and over
and over again. Now obviously that's not what the story
is saying. What the story is saying is that women
are not able to rule in a patriarchal system. There
are so many forces against them, and they are not
And this is what I think is coming with Ryania.
And what they didn't make clear enough with Deanaris is
that maybe she deserves to rule, maybe she could have
been a great queen, but literally nobody trained her. She
has no training and she does not know what This
was very true of Danaris, even though it wasn't as
articulated with her, and it's much more articulated with right mirror,
where you can see she does not know what the
hell she's doing and no one trained her to do it. No,
And she's very stubborn too, So there is stubborn. There's
a lot of stubborn and there's a lot of pride there.
Speaker 2: And like the whole thing about the coronation, like it
was just lady, people are dying, right, People are hungry
out there. They're mad at you. Everybody's angry at you,
and you want to, you know, have a celebration. So yeah,
that kind of stuff. And nobody's guiding her there. Some
are afraid of her, some don't care, some are rooting
to that she fails. It's interesting. That dynamic is interesting.
I think my favorite character actually is Alison. I think
she she's evil, she's oldad, but she understands.
Speaker 1: I love Olivia Cook's performed. Yes, she understands. Alison is
an asshole, right, but I do of her performance. Here's
that's This was the criticism I had about the show
going into the season, and I still have this criticism.
I didn't read the books that this is based on,
but I've read the summaries, and I know where the
story goes, and I know what Martin's intention was for
these characters. And Alison and Rainier are unquestionably bad people
in the writing of these stories, and the show does
not want to commit to that, and I guess the
thinking is, well, we have to.
Speaker 2: Give them a little bit of a soul, Yeah, I guess,
because like.
Speaker 1: So with Raniira, she's a bad queen, but it's because, oh,
there's so many forces against her, and she doesn't know
what she's doing. It's not because she's an evil bitch,
but she kind of is an evil bitch. I'm sorry,
I'm gonna I.
Speaker 2: Mean, the thing is with Alison, for example, I mean
she's offering her kids to be slaughtered, you know, I mean,
that's how evil she is. And right, but even that,
they it's a whole yeah, yeah, yeah. She's so conflicted
and she's so scared and she's just trying to protect
Helene or whatever it is. And with right Nira, like
her guards go out and they slaughter people because she
told them to go out and handle the graffiti that
was being written aboutter But it's presented like, oh, sir,
Luther took her her you know, her orders too far,
and she didn't mean it like they.
Speaker 1: Are actually saying no, no, She she there should be yes.
She should be sitting on the throne saying I want
these people dead, right because that's who that that character
would make more sense.
Speaker 2: Right she and and you can tell that that's what
she wants. I mean, she's she's evil. She makes to
you know, she she wants him to do the thing
she tells them to do. But I I don't know,
it just feels like they're making again. It's it's pretty
much every show I think in general. They want you
to have both sides. They want you to have that
person making evil comments. But at the same time, oh,
she's questioning her decisions. She's questioning what she's gonna do
or she's doing. And you can see that, I mean,
like you can see those two ladies talking. For example.
Speaker 1: I apologize for that. We had to cut the mics
because I was about to explode into a coughing fit
into my microphone. It's fascinating. I am literally getting sicker
over the course of this podcast. If you rewind to
the beginning of it, I probably sound a lot better
than I do right now, and I think we need
to wrap this up because I'm getting sick. So yes, Ryanira,
I would. I really think Emma's doing an amazing job.
I like that the show has allowed this character to
be a bad queen, although I do think it raises
questions about does this story have an issue with women
taking power? But I really wish they would make her evil.
As you said, they kind of dance around it with
Alison that she is obviously not a good mother, but
they again it's all like, well, forces have made her.
You know, she had to sleep with Vizaras and all
of that's true. I'm not taking that away from it.
But I really just wish they would let these two
main characters be horrible, horrible people, because the story would
actually make much more sense if they were.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I mean it. It would make more
the decisions would make more sense the and and you'd
have a better point of view.
Speaker 1: I think, as I asked, the show struggles with trying
to make both of them like heroines of a sort
and like they're not heroines. Everything they've done from the
beginning of the story has been awful.
Speaker 2: I mean, to be honest, everyone, everyone is horrible in
this show, every single one of them.
Speaker 1: Ormond High Tower, Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, I was not expecting that at all. Yeah, I
thought he was just a not not necessarily psycho God's idea.
Speaker 1: The show was very good at doing these evil characters
that you just want to want. You just want to
watch that guy because he's crazy and evil, and of course.
Speaker 2: He's the costume James Norton looks amazing. The costume is point.
Speaker 1: Right near her and and Alison are not given that
opportunity to be these raging bitches, like seriously, was like that,
Like she was the most hated character on the old show,
but people also loved her.
Speaker 2: Oh the Ormond called called her a bitch with with
a bit with a dragon, a bitch with a dragon.
Speaker 1: But yes, that's my point. He's great. He's one of
the best new things about the series. Also still loving
Alice Rivers the Witch's phenomenon. She love her and they
actually had her doing some like slightly magical stuff.
Speaker 2: Do you think she's an actual goat or she turns
into a goat?
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe, but they are letting her. They don't.
They don't use magic all that much in these in
these stories. Uh, they're very you know, circumspect about how
they use it. But I'm glad that they let her
be a little magical in this one. All right, who
else Baila and her uncle look like they're about to
get together.
Speaker 2: I think the whole thing with is that Raina and
the dragon when when Damon found her, you know, yeah,
that was a really good that was an interesting thing.
I don't know, he became too fatherly.
Speaker 1: He had no relationship, he had no relation with her.
Speaker 2: And he's a horrible person, so that was a little
too sweet for me. I agree, But again, you know,
she I'm curious. I mean, apparently there's more to it
that that's gonna happen with her and the dragon outle death,
So I'm curious about that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's so much that happened in the
last three episodes that I am I I'm trying to
pick and choose what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: I do think the whole thing with Corlis and and
the fact that you know, yeah, well she pissed him
off again.
Speaker 1: Oh, she's so conflicted and she doesn't want to know.
Just let her be a bit like she's not gonna
do it because she's a hypocrite and a bit Yeah,
and she mistreats her allies.
Speaker 2: I do like that he pointed that out, that pointed
out that her kids are all bastard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's so conflicted and she feels bad and no, no,
just let her be a bad character. The show works
better when she is, and I think that's why I'm
enjoying this revelation that she's not good at her job.
Speaker 2: I also saw the scene with the rat banquet was
also interesting.
Speaker 1: It was I saw that coming a million miles away,
but yes, it was. And I mean, but again, it's like,
well that was kind of crazy ast thing to do,
but you know it's crazy she's but it's justified because
those people and the people are starving in the streets,
and she cares about the small folk and they're trying
to do way too much of that stuff.
Speaker 2: I think she I don't think she cares at all.
I mean, that's my point of these. Either the show
wants you the show wants you to be questioning that,
But to me, it's very clear. She is very manipulative.
You know, she forces people to do things, and then.
Speaker 1: She she's ungrateful all the white She's basically imprisoning off
in the red Keep. He's not allowed to go out
to saloons or taverns anymore. So they're getting there, but
they're still like an they're gonna do like a denarous
moment where she just snaps and finally goes. And you
could have just made her an asshole from the beginning,
like you toyed with this, and you could have made
her a villain from the beginning. Same thing with Allison.
I think the story is much more engrossing when these
two villainous women are at the center of it. But
they wanted to tell a story about the patriarchy, and
I get it. I'm not opposed to it, but it
removes a lot of the teeth from the story.
Speaker 2: I thought also that she believed very quickly that that
skull was the was the person who killed her her son.
Speaker 1: I mean to me that what else is she supposed
to believe? You know?
Speaker 2: But I wish we had a scene where she questioned
a little bit more, or you know, went too quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure that's going to play out late. I'm
sure we're not done with that.
Speaker 2: I also like the whole thing with Alison and what's
her name, Miss Mercer, miss Aria. Sorry, yeah, I think
that was interesting that they might I don't know, join forces.
Speaker 1: I wish I could say I like that actress, but
I don't think she's good in that role at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just don't think she is. I've seen her in
other things, but you have. She was in Crazy Rich
Asians Rights The Bride, Oh my god, yes, yeah, but
I just didn't like her. I just don't like her
in this. I don't think she's very believable. But yeah,
we'll see. Right now, Allison just trapped in a secret
passageway with her daughter, so who knows if she's getting
out of there.
Speaker 2: And I also like the whole thing with the actual king,
you know, Egon? Right?
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I do like and Amon is actually really great. Yes, uh,
first off that I kind of love Agon right now,
he's even though he's well, this is my point, he's
an asshole, but you can enjoy watching it.
Speaker 2: It's behaving like an asshole. This is spoiled.
Speaker 1: They need to let right Near and Alison be assholes
because Egan and Amon are and even uh, what's Matt
Smith's characters name?
Speaker 2: Right Near?
Speaker 1: And oh Damon is it, Damon, Yeah, they're all assholes.
They let Amen be horrible assholes, and they're some of
the best characters on the show anyway. Yes, Egon and
Laris the strong and their various struggles. I don't think
his together. I don't think his dragon is dead. No,
I mean they're making it. They're hinting very strong.
Speaker 2: Oh spoiler, he's not.
Speaker 1: You probably shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's in the books anyway, right, well, we're not
talking about them, but anyway, and also they might not
go with that, but apparently the dragon is not dead.
All right.
Speaker 1: Don't yell at me, everyone yell at Lorenzo.
Speaker 2: He just by watching a bunch of.
Speaker 1: Let's get all these mics before we do anything, before
I hack into them or you give anything else away?
Do you have anything else you want to say about
the show?
Speaker 2: No, I'm actually enjoying it. It's actually enjoyable now without
having read the books, i'd say, you know, like in
the beginning, I was like, oh my god, do I
need to read the books because I have no idea
what's going on. But it's getting better at explaining things.
I do think the Extors in general are doing a
very good job. I think so, And it still feels like, yeah,
an interesting show, and with things happening, and and you
always you know, there are certain things that I think
they do a very good job. And the cinematography is beautiful,
costumes are like lighting, and all that I enjoyed very good.
Speaker 1: I don't think I have anything else left to say.
I think we have beaten us one today. Yes, all right,
so we'll be back next week with I don't even
know what we're talking about. Next week, we'll find out
whatever crosses ours across our desk. Until then, take care
of yourselves, love you mean it. Bye bye,