Speaker 1: Found dead on the beach. Police say she died of suicide,
Speaker 1: but her family thinks someone out there knows what happened.
Speaker 1: What do you do when in your heart you don't
Speaker 1: believe your daughter could take her own life, but investigators
Speaker 1: won't listen and facts are more than mysterious. Today we're
Speaker 1: covering the Scottish case of Annie Boyesen. Good morning. The
Speaker 1: following podcast cemeterial for a mature audience listener, just question
Speaker 1: that much.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Nicol, I'm Ben, and you are listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. Welcome, what's up?
Speaker 2: We're here and I'm falling asleep.
Speaker 1: Ben is so freakin tired that I don't even know
Speaker 1: if he's going to make it through this podcast.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't know what's with me today,
Speaker 2: but I'm just like I could curl up in a
Speaker 2: ball for about a week.
Speaker 1: You're literally a bump on a log right now.
Speaker 2: Pretty much pretty much. But I'm going to survive through this.
Speaker 2: I think I got it.
Speaker 1: You're going to just have to You're going to just
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: Well, then tell me a story and keep me awake.
Speaker 1: Well, something exciting is that it's Rumen eggnog season.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that is exciting.
Speaker 1: That is freaking a good season.
Speaker 2: You made me my first Rummen eggnog yesterday, which was delicious.
Speaker 1: And I went through a phase I remember where I
Speaker 1: didn't drink eggnog.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you thought eggnog was like horrendous and I was
Speaker 2: like that was that? What the fuck?
Speaker 1: I feel like I might have gotten ill or something,
Speaker 1: maybe drank a bunch and then got sick like a
Speaker 1: flu or something. And then yeah, but then.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, you need to add rum to it, like, oh,
Speaker 2: I can hop on this.
Speaker 1: Bandwagon's actually good because yeah, I was doing almond old,
Speaker 1: which is just not the same. It's not the same. No,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for all you dairy intolerance people. I apologize, okay,
Speaker 1: And we have to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving in
Speaker 1: the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a little bit behind now, we're late,
Speaker 2: but happy related Thanksgiving, Yeah to all our our Southern
Speaker 2: brethren down there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then it was Black Friday and it's Cyber Monday,
Speaker 1: and I just looked and I have a serious problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah you do.
Speaker 1: I apparently am subscribed to so many things that I
Speaker 1: got fucking like one hundred and twenty five emails today
Speaker 1: on Cyber Monday, which is a problem.
Speaker 2: That is a serious problem, And honestly, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Surprised that is a problem.
Speaker 2: You need to fix that. You got some unsubscribing to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm going to be doing after this podcast,
Speaker 1: because that actually makes me like slightly ill.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even buy anything today, so it's not
Speaker 1: like I need any of those.
Speaker 2: I bought something today.
Speaker 1: I bought stuff on Black Friday, but I didn't today.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't buy Black Friday stuff. I did buy
Speaker 2: one thing today.
Speaker 1: What did you buy?
Speaker 2: A teeny tiny point setup?
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll actually have to boast a photo because we
Speaker 1: have like last year we had a mini Christmas tree
Speaker 1: just on our counter, and this year we up leveled
Speaker 1: and I have also have a mini Christmas tree and
Speaker 1: a mini point set it and it's the cutest thing
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my whole life.
Speaker 2: It's like the most tiny home appropriate decorations I have
Speaker 2: ever seen.
Speaker 1: It actually is. It makes me so happy, so happy.
Speaker 2: We're getting festive up in this beach.
Speaker 1: That's gotta wake your ass up getting festive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as long as Mariah Carey doesn't like
Speaker 2: boot me in the back. I think I'll slowly wake up.
Speaker 1: Oh man, But then that would just be like I'd
Speaker 1: pay money to see that Mariah Carey kick me in
Speaker 1: the back things. Yeah, that would be such a sight.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: All right, okay, we have one more topic to discuss.
Speaker 2: What's that one? More?
Speaker 1: You can? You can? You can start this one.
Speaker 2: I don't even know the time. You've got the notes today?
Speaker 1: The Wicked Box, the Wicked Boxes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we did a giveaway a couple of months
Speaker 2: ago on the Wicked Box. We've put together some cool stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, a little box and did a giveaway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was quite a giveaway, epic.
Speaker 2: Treasure hunt thing. We're doing it again, not just yet.
Speaker 2: We're looking for around Christmas time. We're going to have
Speaker 2: two that we're going to give away this time.
Speaker 1: Yes, we've ordered some supplies for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as of right now, we have absolutely no
Speaker 2: idea how we're going to give them away, So we
Speaker 2: got to start planning that out too. I don't know
Speaker 2: if we're going to go it was quite in depth
Speaker 2: as we did before.
Speaker 1: That's what I was just going to say. Should we
Speaker 1: go in depth or should we just like, you know,
Speaker 1: make it a bit easier.
Speaker 2: We'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: We could do one of each or something. We'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll see.
Speaker 2: But yeah, just want to let you guys know what
Speaker 2: that's coming down the pipe. You ordered some stuff for
Speaker 2: it the other day, and it's going to be pretty dope.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exciting. I mean everyone was pretty pumped. It
Speaker 1: was a cool box. It was filled with stuff i'd want.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, who wouldn't want a wicked box?
Speaker 2: It sounds pretty wicked to.
Speaker 1: Me, sound dope?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What are you out for a case for us? Today?
Speaker 1: Okay, so today we're talking about the mysterious death of
Speaker 1: Annie Boyesen, and I hope I am saying that right.
Speaker 1: I apologize to Annie if I'm not, but I'm not
Speaker 1: Swedish and I did look it up and that that's
Speaker 1: how I'm going to say it in my my Canadian
Speaker 1: American accent.
Speaker 2: You're Canadian and American.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I am?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we technically are North American.
Speaker 1: Sorry, there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just American has been the adopted nickname for the
Speaker 2: United States, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, so and a mysterious one. It is like, wow, wow, wow, Wow.
Speaker 2: Okay, I do know a little bit about this case
Speaker 2: because I almost did it at one point.
Speaker 1: You did, actually, and then I stole it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for that. Sorry, but it's a good one.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to buckle up my proverbial seat belt
Speaker 2: here and uh click, I'm ready to go. Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: buckled in.
Speaker 1: So it's one of those stories that's going to stick
Speaker 1: with you. Every time something happens, it just leaves you
Speaker 1: feeling like there's no way they could get any stranger,
Speaker 1: yet it does.
Speaker 2: Can you say it one more time? Just really relaxed
Speaker 2: that any time was real, like abrupt jump in okay.
Speaker 2: So just you're talking to me and you're just like, oh, okay, yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So every time something happens in this case, it just
Speaker 1: leaves you feeling like there's no way things could get stranger,
Speaker 1: yet it does.
Speaker 2: It does. Interesting.
Speaker 1: It's wild. It's bizarre.
Speaker 2: No, some of the stuff I do know about it, it
Speaker 2: is wild. It is bizarre. Yeah, I have a feeling
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a lot more to it that that's
Speaker 2: gonna blow my mind. I'm excited for this one.
Speaker 1: I think you'll learn some things. So Annie was born
Speaker 1: in Sweden in nineteen seventy five. She was half Hungarian.
Speaker 1: At five foot eight, she had an athletic build and
Speaker 1: was a Swedish beauty. So she had blonde hair and
Speaker 1: blue eyes.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can, like quite literally like picture her picture
Speaker 2: in my mind. Actually.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even before I had picked and researched this case,
Speaker 1: like I had recognized her photo too.
Speaker 2: Oh you have seen her photo?
Speaker 1: I have? Yeah, Okay, So I mean I think it's
Speaker 1: like a fairly well known case, really it is.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty big one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, so she seemed to be an absolutely incredible person
Speaker 1: as well. She played in a band. She loved nature
Speaker 1: and being outdoors and absolutely loved Rugby. Also, something that's
Speaker 1: super impressive in my books, she spoke a total five
Speaker 1: different languages.
Speaker 2: That is boss vibes right there. Yeah, holy shit, I
Speaker 2: can barely speak English.
Speaker 1: I know. I feel like around here we can barely
Speaker 1: speak one language. So I'm just like in awe. It's
Speaker 1: actually my buck list one day to learn a second language, though,
Speaker 1: I think I would like to try that.
Speaker 2: Which language would you learn?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd have to pick one because I'd
Speaker 1: want to pick one and then go to that area
Speaker 1: and like, you know, practice it. But I mean they
Speaker 1: would probably be like wow, well, I mean.
Speaker 2: Of course if it's not your native language, it's not
Speaker 2: you can just come up and roll out and be like, yo,
Speaker 2: I'm doing this flawlessly for the first time ever. It's
Speaker 2: not the expectation.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes I think like Spanish, but then I'm like,
Speaker 1: maybe something different. I don't know what about you Japanese Okay,
Speaker 1: I was thinking you're going to say that, but I
Speaker 1: want to Japanese really.
Speaker 2: Hey, huh, well, I mean I did. I did martial
Speaker 2: arts as a kid, right, so there was that Japanese
Speaker 2: kind of culture behind the martial arts. And then I'm
Speaker 2: a big, like anime fan, I want to go to
Speaker 2: Japan one day, and it's just yeah, it's Japanese wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2: Boom done.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I would love to go to Japan too, Okay.
Speaker 1: So another big passion for Annie was Scotland. She spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time in Scotland in two thousand and
Speaker 1: four and absolutely fell in love with the country. That
Speaker 1: is also a place we would like to visit.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: She immersed herself in the country and got to know
Speaker 1: the people, in the culture and also the countryside through
Speaker 1: her many long hikes around historical sites.
Speaker 2: Jealous, I want to do that.
Speaker 1: I know well you have like Scottish in yea a
Speaker 1: little bit right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Freedom?
Speaker 1: No, sorry, but Annie had. She had a tough time
Speaker 1: being able to get a permanent residency permit and had
Speaker 1: to leave Scotland in August of two thousand and four.
Speaker 1: Annie didn't give up, though, she knew without a doubt
Speaker 1: where she wanted to be, and she went back and
Speaker 1: forth between Scotland and Sweden a few times before she
Speaker 1: finally landed back in Scotland for good the next year
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, she made a home for
Speaker 1: herself in Edinburgh, and all that stood between her and
Speaker 1: knowing for sure that she could stay in the place
Speaker 1: that she had fallen in love was, of course, finding
Speaker 1: a job.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry. I'm a little bit distracted because my
Speaker 2: parents had gone to Scotland before and they I know it.
Speaker 1: Because I was like, did I say something wrong?
Speaker 2: No, it's the way you said Edinburgh, and I'm trying
Speaker 2: to think they said that they could the people there
Speaker 2: at the locals knew that they were Canadian because the
Speaker 2: way they said Edinburgh and I'm trying to remember if
Speaker 2: it's because anyone from the state says Edinburgh. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to I don't know sure if to get it backwards.
Speaker 1: I did listen to something. I can't remember what they said,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there was different, different and wrong ways to
Speaker 1: pronounce it, and I think it was Edinburgh Borough or Edinburgh.
Speaker 1: I can't remember.
Speaker 2: I believe Edinburgh is the correct way to say it.
Speaker 1: There was two correct ways to say Is there two?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: From what I saw anyway, But well, shit, anyone.
Speaker 2: Who's from Scotland or knows, we need to know what's
Speaker 2: the correct way. What's the correct pronunciation? Is it Edinburgh? Edinburgh?
Speaker 2: What is it? Are we just way off base here.
Speaker 1: And way off who knows?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it's Edinburgh.
Speaker 1: Okay. So back to Annie. She needed to find a job, right,
Speaker 1: you got to make that chetta chetta cheese. Annie kept
Speaker 1: at it, trying everywhere she could to find that last
Speaker 1: missing piece of the puzzle. But there's only so many
Speaker 1: hours of the day that you can dedicate to jaw hunting,
Speaker 1: fair enough, and Annie wanted to make the most of
Speaker 1: every minute she had. I think we can all vouch
Speaker 1: basically how was Austin. Job hunting is like it actually
Speaker 1: kind of sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sure. It's like one of the worst things ever.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I could literally have a billboard with three four
Speaker 2: different job options in front of me and I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I haven't found any jobs today.
Speaker 1: I do think writing the cover well, no, it's all
Speaker 1: just shit. Never mind, I was gonna say that writing
Speaker 1: the cover letter is the worst, but also, like, the
Speaker 1: interview is pretty horrific too.
Speaker 2: I honest, interviews are fucking bullshit for the most part.
Speaker 2: They ask you the most ridiculous questions that don't pertain
Speaker 2: to the job usually and don't mean anything. People usually
Speaker 2: know what you're trying to ask them, so I'll just
Speaker 2: give you a false answer anyways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if you're good at thinking, I'm like on
Speaker 1: your feet like that. Yeah, So why don't listen to
Speaker 1: Ben's advice?
Speaker 2: There's good things about interviews, don't get me wrong. You
Speaker 2: can definitely get a feel for a person, but it
Speaker 2: can be someone can totally manipulate that whole system as well. Well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's some people who are just really
Speaker 1: nervous and stuff, so their true colors won't be shining
Speaker 1: through right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so for the time being, she was able to
Speaker 1: collect unemployment from Sweden though, which she gave her a
Speaker 1: bit of breathing room in her new life. And when
Speaker 1: she wasn't busy looking for a job, you could usually
Speaker 1: find Annie in one of her many favorite spots, which
Speaker 1: were outside in the countryside where she did all those
Speaker 1: long hikes around local historical sites and landmarks. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, I thought that was like a cafe or
Speaker 2: something at first, one of her favorite spots outside on
Speaker 2: the countryside. It sounds like a cafe name or something.
Speaker 1: Or like a little cottage.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, it took me
Speaker 2: a second to realize. Oh, like, no, literally in the countryside.
Speaker 1: Or you could find her at the swimming hall where
Speaker 1: she regularly swam to keep herself fit, or at the
Speaker 1: local rugby club. Annie had a really big passion for rugby,
Speaker 1: and spending time at the club gave her the opportunity
Speaker 1: to have a drink, unwind and make friends with the locals.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: I like that. She kind of seemed like she just
Speaker 1: like immersed herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she wasn't afraid to kind of go to those yees.
Speaker 1: And I really like that. So and this tactic actually
Speaker 1: quickly paid off for her. Was kind and friendly, and
Speaker 1: before she knew it, she was getting invited to all
Speaker 1: sorts of events and parties and was making all sorts
Speaker 1: of new friends, even though she'd only been back in
Speaker 1: the country for a few months. Good for her, Good
Speaker 1: for Annie. Some you know, the grass ain't always greener though.
Speaker 1: Of course, here we go.
Speaker 2: Here's where the tables turn my how the turntables?
Speaker 1: I know, and I'm always like hesitant. I'm like, this
Speaker 1: sounds so nice, but we got to go to a
Speaker 1: dark place. So something wasn't quite right though, and her
Speaker 1: friends and family were starting to pick up on it.
Speaker 1: She started to sound a bit troubled in phone conversations,
Speaker 1: saying she had to take care of something, had a
Speaker 1: decision to make that might be life changing.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: On Thursday, December one, first, she had a conversation with
Speaker 1: her mother, who shared that her family was, you know,
Speaker 1: a bit worried and growing concerned about her, to which
Speaker 1: she responded, You'll have to respect this, but I have
Speaker 1: to take care of myself. That same night, Annie made
Speaker 1: a call to one of her friends in Sweden, telling
Speaker 1: her that she was heading out to a party later
Speaker 1: that night. She didn't give her a lot of detail
Speaker 1: other than she was really looking forward to it. They
Speaker 1: chit chatted for a little bit before Annie said that
Speaker 1: she had to go go so that she could get
Speaker 1: ready for the party, and the two hung up. But
Speaker 1: no witnesses ever came forward in regards to this party,
Speaker 1: and that was the last time Annie's friend or her
Speaker 1: family ever heard from her.
Speaker 2: So there's no witnesses to come forward from party to
Speaker 2: saying she was.
Speaker 1: There, there was even a party, or that it ever happened.
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1: So unless no one just came forward but you heard
Speaker 1: someone would I don't know so. Because on December or sorry, Sunday,
Speaker 1: December fourth, a man out walking his dog on a
Speaker 1: beach in the Preswick Bay found the body of a
Speaker 1: thirty year old woman, that woman being Annie. The police
Speaker 1: rushed to the scene to investigate, but it was quickly
Speaker 1: determined by them that Annie had committed suicide.
Speaker 2: I have a really bad joke you want to make.
Speaker 1: I don't think we should make a joke.
Speaker 2: No, I know, that's the thing. It's like, all respect
Speaker 2: to Annie, but I also at the same time do
Speaker 2: hope that the police kind of ran up to your
Speaker 2: and was like Annie, are you okay?
Speaker 1: Oh are you okay? Sorry, Okay, that's not as bad
Speaker 1: and it's about you, okay, yeah, Actually all poor Annie.
Speaker 1: I feel so bad for her, I know. So after
Speaker 1: they went through the steps of identifying the body as
Speaker 1: being Annie, family back in Sweden got the call that
Speaker 1: their beloved daughter Annie was gone. That right there, to me,
Speaker 1: is like almost a reason to just never have kids,
Speaker 1: because I couldn't imagine what kind of of like loss
Speaker 1: that feels to you.
Speaker 2: Having your child, Like get that phone call that you're,
Speaker 2: holy shit passed away.
Speaker 1: I just couldn't imagine.
Speaker 2: It's like take a night, carve out your heart and stomach.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow yeah, but I mean, what's the saying, better
Speaker 1: to have loved and lost than never to have loved
Speaker 1: at all?
Speaker 2: Oh shit, you're getting deep on us.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean someone actually said that quote to me the
Speaker 1: other day. So that's why I was remembered it because
Speaker 1: I was just like, God, like our animals even worth it,
Speaker 1: because like, I'm still pretty upset about Mika, right and so,
Speaker 1: and now we have rippling and I'm like God, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to do this again, like, is it even
Speaker 1: worth it? But it's totally worth it because to not
Speaker 1: love is that's not a life.
Speaker 2: No, definitely not so so.
Speaker 1: A loss and a sudden one, as in the case
Speaker 1: of Annie, are always a shock. But Annie's deemed suicide
Speaker 1: sent her family and friends into a huge state of disbelief,
Speaker 1: so much so that they actually called the police right
Speaker 1: away and told them that there was no way that
Speaker 1: Annie could have committed suicide. The police, however, disagreed.
Speaker 2: I'm curious on these details.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of details. This is. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: even know where I am in this case right now,
Speaker 1: but we're just getting started. So when investigators examined the
Speaker 1: scene and Annie's body on that cold December morning, they
Speaker 1: found everything they needed to rule it a suicide. In
Speaker 1: their opinion, She allegedly looked as though she had drowned
Speaker 1: and her body was covered in sand and seaweed, telling
Speaker 1: investigators that she died at sea. She had an unexplained
Speaker 1: depression in the skin, small areas of bruising to the
Speaker 1: right temple, scratched abrasion on the left arm, and two patterned,
Speaker 1: roughly square contoosed areas on the right arm. This is
Speaker 1: kind of like coming from the autopsy, okay, but police
Speaker 1: believed these minor injuries suggested that she had been hit
Speaker 1: by things in the water and her body was dragged
Speaker 1: across the beach in the tide, which I mean it
Speaker 1: could be.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering. I'm not too sure on how like the
Speaker 2: science of the body is, but I'm not so non
Speaker 2: postpartem bruising.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could tell the thing is like you could
Speaker 1: tell if they were.
Speaker 2: Happened after Yeah, I know someone would be able to tell.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm also really leary about someone committing suicide by drowning,
Speaker 2: not to say doesn't happen usually if it's a water suicide,
Speaker 2: it's jumping off of something into the water and it's
Speaker 2: the impact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and so was there and then you think
Speaker 1: there'd be.
Speaker 2: A Marx Yeah, oh yeah. No. Once you jump at
Speaker 2: water from a certain height, it's like you're hitting concrete.
Speaker 2: You'd be breaking bones and shit. Was there a location around,
Speaker 2: you know, that would have been of heights that someone
Speaker 2: could have jumped off for suicide in a scenario like this.
Speaker 1: Not that I exactly know about, but I do mention
Speaker 1: here later the investigator stuck to their theory that Annie
Speaker 1: had committed suicide either by jumping off a cliff or
Speaker 1: walking out into sea and drowning, and they simply close
Speaker 1: the case.
Speaker 2: I can't see someone who went swimming for recreation to
Speaker 2: walk out to sea to drown. I can see someone, yeah,
Speaker 2: does not have swimming skills to do that.
Speaker 1: Because that's one thing, yeah, and the other. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be kind of going back and forth here
Speaker 1: because we're jumping ahead. But she had like her belongings
Speaker 1: were very close to her body.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So like the fact that she says she jumped off
Speaker 1: a cliff, like there's no way that everything would just
Speaker 1: end up kind of in the same place.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go back to that swimming theory
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, sure, Okay. So there was an
Speaker 2: interview I watched off someone who survived jumping off the
Speaker 2: Golden Gate Bridge, like the odds are stupid thin of
Speaker 2: that survival happening. And he said the moment he let go,
Speaker 2: he regretted it. He regretted jumping, but he survived. And
Speaker 2: anyone who survived something like that, they regret it the second.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people do yes, like hangings
Speaker 1: and yeah, and they can't, they can't fix what happened. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I can't see someone with swimming skills going out
Speaker 2: into the water just wading out from the beach purposely
Speaker 2: drowning themselves, because your reaction, potentially regret instincts, would cause
Speaker 2: you to start swimming to the surface and save yourself.
Speaker 2: I think the only way that primarily the only way
Speaker 2: that would be a suicidal option is if someone doesn't
Speaker 2: have the skills to save themselves and they're in too
Speaker 2: deep and they can't it's too late to turn back.
Speaker 1: But the other thing is the water would be hella
Speaker 1: cold too, but still you'd probably have the opportunity to
Speaker 1: swim back, yeah and save yourselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean up here in Canada, we swim in
Speaker 2: hell of cold water. Lots. Yeah, Like people do the
Speaker 2: polar bear dip. They jump in cold water and they
Speaker 2: turn around and swim back, no problem.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to do that too, but I hate
Speaker 1: being cold, So I just don't think it's gonna happen
Speaker 1: for anyone curious.
Speaker 2: In the polar bear dip. That's literally they cut holes
Speaker 2: in in winter and you jump in and.
Speaker 1: Lots of times it's on New Year's Day, like January first,
Speaker 1: it's like how you're ringing in your new year.
Speaker 2: Yeah that so it's like minus thirty three celsius in
Speaker 2: the air, So not cool. Anyways, that's my rant on
Speaker 2: why I think she did not wade into the water.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we'll see what you think at the
Speaker 1: end of what happened here. Like, there's quite a few things.
Speaker 1: So one thing that I'm just backing up a little bit.
Speaker 1: She had an uncast check for three hundred pounds on
Speaker 1: her and most of her longing belongings, like I was saying,
Speaker 1: were either found on her or in her backpack, which
Speaker 1: had been washed up only a few meters away from
Speaker 1: her body, suggesting that this wasn't a robbery gone wrong,
Speaker 1: but also suggesting it probably wasn't her jumping off a
Speaker 1: cliff and all her belongings just magically landing next to
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would have probably been still at the top
Speaker 2: of the cliff. Yeah, she would have taken them off,
Speaker 2: put them there or something, or they would have been
Speaker 2: just scattered out in the water. Yeah, one of the
Speaker 2: two exactly, or left at her apartment or who knows where.
Speaker 1: Okay, so because the investigators pretty much deemed that this
Speaker 1: was a suicide, like right off the get go, really right,
Speaker 1: They did not call a forensic team to the scene,
Speaker 1: they didn't few witnesses, and they just left it at that.
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of things that they probably
Speaker 1: should have done or should have collected or but in
Speaker 1: their mind it's like they arrived and they just were like,
Speaker 1: she committed suicide.
Speaker 2: See, an investigation should be issued to detern in something
Speaker 2: like a.
Speaker 1: Suicide, regardless of how obvious it looks, because I mean
Speaker 1: lots of times, as we know, people are setting up
Speaker 1: other people or yeah, or what right, Like, there's.
Speaker 2: That's the purpose of an investigation, right to find answers,
Speaker 2: especially when.
Speaker 1: The family is just so adamant too. But I mean,
Speaker 1: if they didn't collect things right off the bat, they
Speaker 1: before the family was even notified, like what are they
Speaker 1: going to do? Yeah, But Annie's family, in their gut,
Speaker 1: like I've been saying, did not believe Annie would commit suicide,
Speaker 1: and they couldn't shake the feeling that there was something
Speaker 1: else going on. They knew that Annie had planned on
Speaker 1: coming back to Sweden pretty close to the date that
Speaker 1: she had been discovered. She actually already had an appointment
Speaker 1: with her hairdresser for the following Monday, and it was
Speaker 1: sad or Sunday when she was found. Okay, so like Monday,
Speaker 1: she had plans to get her hair done in a Sweden.
Speaker 2: Huh, it doesn't sound like someone who's buck made suicide.
Speaker 1: And she was found with books in her backpack that
Speaker 1: needed to be returned to a library in Sweden, and
Speaker 1: she had paid her rent. So none of that was
Speaker 1: consistent with someone who had planned on taking their own
Speaker 1: lives or on their own life. And they told the
Speaker 1: investigators just that. Yeah, But when they realized that Scottish
Speaker 1: police weren't going to look into Any's case any further,
Speaker 1: her family and friends back in Sweden began looking into
Speaker 1: anything and everything that they could find to help explain
Speaker 1: what happened to her, and they had a pretty good
Speaker 1: idea of where to start. So just to briefly touch
Speaker 1: on that, though, I think it can often be a
Speaker 1: shock when a loved one does take their own life,
Speaker 1: and it's not often expected, right, But then on the
Speaker 1: other hand, when you have a gut feeling you need
Speaker 1: to listen. You do need to listen to that, and
Speaker 1: they found many things that would question whether Annie actually
Speaker 1: committed suicide or not. And that's what I'm going to
Speaker 1: start touching on.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it. I'm curious.
Speaker 1: So in the week leading up to her death, Annie
Speaker 1: had complained about meeting someone at the local rugby club
Speaker 1: who had rubbed her kind of the wrong way. She'd
Speaker 1: only met him a few times, but after each encounter,
Speaker 1: she'd later be on the phone, either talking to her
Speaker 1: parents or her friends about this guy who just didn't
Speaker 1: want to seem to like take the hint that she
Speaker 1: wasn't interested, gotcha.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of those guys.
Speaker 1: One of those guys.
Speaker 3: Persistence sometimes that does it pays off, but you have
Speaker 3: to do it in not a creepy ass way. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's a right and a wrong way to have persistence.
Speaker 2: There you go, that's perfect way of putting it.
Speaker 1: So the guy was Martin Leslie, a pretty prominent ru
Speaker 1: ugby player from New Zealand who was in scott who
Speaker 1: was in Scotland to play a match with Hotland. Like
Speaker 1: you said that, I know, I actually pronounced that really weird,
Speaker 1: But Scotland Scotland. I just changed the name of Scotland. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Some people probably announce it like that potent.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, with everything we know about Annie, chances are she
Speaker 1: would have initially been really stoked that a professional rugby
Speaker 1: player wanted to buy her a drink, like she had
Speaker 1: a type, and like a rugby player would have been
Speaker 1: her type.
Speaker 2: Fair enough. Yeah, I mean honestly, if a professional rugby
Speaker 2: player wanted to buy me a drink, I'd be like, dude,
Speaker 2: I mean, no, homo, but let's do this thing.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. You'd be like, yeah, let's chat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's hear your life story.
Speaker 2: I mean I might be like, you know what, no, homo,
Speaker 2: but I'll try anything once. So who knows?
Speaker 1: Wow, says the married man.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I got nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right here.
Speaker 2: Sorry.
Speaker 1: But that excitement changed relatively quickly to her trying to
Speaker 1: avoid Martin. She had told family and friends on the
Speaker 1: phone that he was really pushy and he kept trying
Speaker 1: to get her to drink, even when she told him
Speaker 1: that she didn't want to and made it clear that
Speaker 1: she wasn't even interested in him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sounds like a douche canoe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he seemed to be somewhat stalking at oh
Speaker 1: because she would run into him. Around town, including the
Speaker 1: swimming hall one time when she was there like to
Speaker 1: work out, but she had never seen him there previously.
Speaker 1: Annie ended up telling her friend later that this guy
Speaker 1: was nothing but a sexual predator, which are pretty big
Speaker 1: ass words, no kidding, So she didn't knock at a
Speaker 1: good vibe from this guy.
Speaker 2: Wow, all right.
Speaker 1: These phone calls were among the first things that popped
Speaker 1: into Annie's family in friends' heads when Annie was discovered dead.
Speaker 2: To be fair, if I may, yeah, of course there
Speaker 2: it could have very well been coincidence. Maybe he was just, hey,
Speaker 2: I need to work on my cardio on it she
Speaker 2: starts swimming.
Speaker 1: Because he is from New Zealand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So maybe it could very well be coincidence. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And maybe her perception of him is that he's a
Speaker 2: sexual predator. But where she's getting she's going off her gut.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's just trying to be nice, trying to be persistent,
Speaker 2: but he's just coming off creepy who knows.
Speaker 1: Right, which some people do come across creepy, yeah, meaning.
Speaker 2: To be I'm not saying he wasn't a sexual predator.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying we don't know for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, and I'm not throwing this guy's name like what we.
Speaker 2: Eat to the ground, bagging his name in the mud.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, because I'll will just just wait, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So they the family notified the Scottish police, telling them
Speaker 1: to look into Martin Leslie and saying that he could
Speaker 1: have had something to do with Annie's death and that
Speaker 1: he may have been stalking her, and the place did
Speaker 1: agree to like look into this. They went about asking
Speaker 1: in the places where Annie usually spent her time, especially
Speaker 1: the rugby club, looking for Martin Leslie, but they hit
Speaker 1: dead end after dead end until they decided that enough
Speaker 1: was enough and reached out to him through the contacts
Speaker 1: on his rugby team and their PR team in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: In almost minutes, investigators in Scotland were in contact with Martin,
Speaker 1: who simply shook his head and said that he was
Speaker 1: in New Zealand at the time he was allegedly stalking Annie. Oh,
Speaker 1: the investigators were able to confirm with his team that
Speaker 1: Martin had been with them this whole time and he
Speaker 1: was cleared of any suspicion. But this only left Annie's
Speaker 1: family and friends even more confused.
Speaker 2: So who was this douche canoe? Yeah, so he's just
Speaker 2: claiming to be this dude basically. Okay, I'm betting that
Speaker 2: he was. Whoever this is was already eyeing up Annie
Speaker 2: prior to learned her type and approached her after weeks
Speaker 2: of already watching her.
Speaker 1: I think so too. Yeah, yeah, which I mean, so
Speaker 1: I guess she didn't actually know what he looked like
Speaker 1: or anything.
Speaker 2: What year was this?
Speaker 1: Around two thousand and five?
Speaker 2: Okay, so pre most social media?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean here, just wait, so I'm going
Speaker 1: to touch on this a little bit. Here. They were
Speaker 1: all certain that Annie had spoken about meeting him. He'd
Speaker 1: given her details about his life, his family, and his
Speaker 1: career that all checked out with information that did fit
Speaker 1: the real Martin Leslie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, there still was Internet at this time, it
Speaker 2: just wasn't yeah prevalent.
Speaker 1: Right, So this person had like research. He was probably
Speaker 1: a fan of Martin Leslie and Shelby, to be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wouldn't be that hard to do a
Speaker 2: Google search and figure out who he was. And he
Speaker 2: knew that she was into rugby players, looked up who
Speaker 2: it was. Maybe he was a fan and knew exactly
Speaker 2: who he pick. But his research was like that's who
Speaker 2: I'm going to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah for her, which is y as fuck.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So, according to the official timelines, there was no way
Speaker 1: that Martin and Annie could have ever met, especially in Scotland.
Speaker 1: Scotland the assumed week in Scotland, I keep saying that funny. Hey,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad that time. Scotland.
Speaker 2: It's like Newfoundland in Canada, it's Newfoundland, but if you
Speaker 2: actually read it, it's new found Land.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but we say it Newfoundland.
Speaker 1: English is weird. See anyone that has to learn English,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's just like fucked fucked. It's because
Speaker 1: like there are literally things said the same way but
Speaker 1: spelt differently. Oh yeah, Like it could be spelt three
Speaker 1: ways differently, but it's said the same Yeah.
Speaker 2: Where are they there over there?
Speaker 1: And then you have to use them in different contexts
Speaker 1: like there yeah, Oh my gosh. Anyway, now that's making
Speaker 1: me sweat.
Speaker 2: Okay, I who ever has to learn our shitty language,
Speaker 2: we are sorry. It's a whole fucking gong.
Speaker 1: Show, it actually is. So Annie's family and friends were
Speaker 1: then left wondering if someone was lying or if there
Speaker 1: was maybe something else going on, and they became even
Speaker 1: more determined to get to the bottom of the story.
Speaker 1: Like gosh, I couldn't even imagine from across the seas
Speaker 1: they They all did their best to try and collect
Speaker 1: all the information they could about Annie's final days, but
Speaker 1: more often than not, they ended up hitting roadblocks and
Speaker 1: not in the places you'd usually expect to find them
Speaker 1: in any investigation, like the road Yeah, because a roadblock
Speaker 1: A roadblock.
Speaker 2: Sorry, bad pun.
Speaker 1: That was a bad pun. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know how to like make this seem funnier. Sorry,
Speaker 1: that was what was going on in my head. How
Speaker 1: do I make Ben's bad jokes seem funnier?
Speaker 2: You just like cringed at me mid podcast. Love it?
Speaker 1: Oh love you, babe, Love you too, Okay. So, hoping
Speaker 1: to prove and verify some of the calls Annie had
Speaker 1: made to them to talk about her life and the
Speaker 1: now unidentified man she met just the week before her death,
Speaker 1: her family reached out to her phone provider to get
Speaker 1: the information on her call history, but they got nothing. Instead.
Speaker 1: When they looked at the list to people that Annie
Speaker 1: had been in contact with that week, every single one
Speaker 1: of their names was missing, which simply didn't make any
Speaker 1: sense from her phone. Yeah, there was no record of
Speaker 1: phone calls White. This was through her phone to the
Speaker 1: phone company phone provider. Oh wow from apparently Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Her friend family and friends knew for a fact that
Speaker 1: they had all been in contact with Annie several times
Speaker 1: that week, but the phone records were suddenly telling a
Speaker 1: very different story. Wow, which is really messed up.
Speaker 2: That is fucking intense. Holy shit.
Speaker 1: That would be like us phoning tell Us and I
Speaker 1: think basically and them just having no record that we
Speaker 1: made any calls.
Speaker 2: Or Shaw not to say that we use tell Us,
Speaker 2: because if tell Us wants us to say we use them,
Speaker 2: they'd have to sponsor us.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Okay, where the hell am I know? Okay,
Speaker 1: So the Scottish police took a look at those phone
Speaker 1: records too, and it did nothing to push them into
Speaker 1: investigating the case any further, of course, right, it didn't
Speaker 1: change their minds about determining Annie's death as suicide, and
Speaker 1: instead they turned around and said that the data they
Speaker 1: had and the story Annie's family and friends were telling
Speaker 1: them didn't add up, because apparently, to the phone records,
Speaker 1: Annie hadn't made or received any phone calls in the
Speaker 1: last three days leading up to her death, but.
Speaker 2: The family would be able to provide their call history,
Speaker 2: you would.
Speaker 1: Think so, right, Yeah, I don't know, but I think
Speaker 1: the police were just like, it seemed like they're just
Speaker 1: not even what's the word receptive. Yeah, they weren't even
Speaker 1: They're just like, this case.
Speaker 2: Is closed, okay, They're just kind of brushing it off me, like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Brushing it off. Yeah. So this completely knocked Annie's family,
Speaker 1: who at this point just felt like they were finding
Speaker 1: this huge or fighting this huge uphill battle and the
Speaker 1: Scottish police had no interest in hearing any opinions and
Speaker 1: they didn't agree with their own. Fuck, but their daughter
Speaker 1: was dead and they still had no answers to explain why.
Speaker 2: That's brutal.
Speaker 1: Annie's mother then came up with the idea to have
Speaker 1: a look at Annie's email account okay okay, hoping that
Speaker 1: something would be in there that could potentially bowl the
Speaker 1: case wide open. But when she logged into Annie's account
Speaker 1: and opened her mailbox, it was wiped. It was again
Speaker 1: completely cleared. Wow, just like her phone records, Annie's entire
Speaker 1: mailbox incoming and outcoming, everything gone. Wow. But I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: that one some people do actually like are like pretty
Speaker 1: obsessed with clearing their inbox. Like I'm my freaking inbox
Speaker 1: right now is has seventeen hundred on read messages, which
Speaker 1: oh god, people would just barf god.
Speaker 2: I get to a hundred and then I have to
Speaker 2: go and clear shit.
Speaker 1: Well, I got one hundred and twenty five messages today,
Speaker 1: so I clearly have to start some describing to shit.
Speaker 1: No kidding, but anyway, I do think the inbox being
Speaker 1: cleared makes kind of sense to me, But the oat
Speaker 1: box doesn't necessarily make sense because I don't know if
Speaker 1: people really.
Speaker 2: That's not something that's generally cleared because.
Speaker 1: You kind of almost want to keep that. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: no one could figure out why and why any and
Speaker 1: all the information that should have been very black and
Speaker 1: white and usually key evidence in investigations kept coming up blank.
Speaker 2: Oh I can tell you why, because someone fucking deleted it.
Speaker 1: I know, because it was It wasn't just like fuzzy
Speaker 1: like it was just like entirely missing this shit, right.
Speaker 1: So that was until Annie's best friend connected a few
Speaker 1: dots that took this case to a whole new level.
Speaker 2: Shit, I am on the edge of my seat.
Speaker 1: So her friend's name was Maria. She found an American
Speaker 1: investigative journalist by the name of Christina Borjesin, who wrote
Speaker 1: several highly critical articles about American policies.
Speaker 2: Way she had the same last name as Annie.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, was it like a sibling?
Speaker 1: Just wait, okay, you can just wait.
Speaker 2: Sorry, will you? It just seemed like you're going to
Speaker 2: just blow past the same last name.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm not blown past that. So the coincidence of
Speaker 1: both Annie and Christina sharing a last name can be
Speaker 1: overlooked at first, like people share the same last name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But a lot more than just a family name ties
Speaker 1: these two younger women together. Annie's middle name was Christina,
Speaker 1: so she was Annie Christina Boriesin. And the last article
Speaker 1: that American journalist Christina Borrijesen wrote about involved Scotland and
Speaker 1: one particular place in Scotland, the Prestwick Airport. The article
Speaker 1: investigated and criticized Scotland for allowing American planes caring criminals
Speaker 1: on their way to places where they could legally torture
Speaker 1: for information to and refuel in this airport, the same
Speaker 1: airport that Annie traveled back and forth in Sweden, or
Speaker 1: back and forth to Sweden from and the airport that
Speaker 1: was only a mile from where Annie's body was found,
Speaker 1: and we'll bounce back to more about Christina shortly. I'm
Speaker 1: going to leave you hanging here off for foxx sakes,
Speaker 1: But first, Annie had allegedly visited the airport the day
Speaker 1: before her body was found, So we're kind of like
Speaker 1: going to December third, right now.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Annie was found on Sunday, December fourth, so it can
Speaker 1: be assumed that she was at the airport on December
Speaker 1: third to catch a flight home. I don't know if
Speaker 1: Annie's family knew exactly when she was coming home, but
Speaker 1: we do know they were expecting her sometime around this time. Gotcha, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And she had her appointment with her hairdresser on Monday,
Speaker 1: library books to return, and she had her passport.
Speaker 2: With her and a check for three.
Speaker 1: Three hundred pounds sorry pounds. She went to the Central
Speaker 1: station where she tried to take money out of an
Speaker 1: ATM twice. I think she tried to take a hundred
Speaker 1: bucks first and then fifty bucks, but both times she
Speaker 1: didn't have enough money in her account for the transaction
Speaker 1: to go through. The leading theory is that Annie was
Speaker 1: trying to get money out so that she could buy
Speaker 1: her plane ticket back home. And remember she had this
Speaker 1: uncash check for three hundred pounds on her So why
Speaker 1: didn't she cash the check if she didn't have enough
Speaker 1: money in cash to buy her plane ticket?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you cash a check at an ATM,
Speaker 2: it's going to be held for like three to five days.
Speaker 1: It could, but I think if you like go in
Speaker 1: you can probably get the funds. Maybe they were closed, yeah,
Speaker 1: but if she's at the airport. She wasn't at the
Speaker 1: airport and she went to the bank, OK, gotcha. So
Speaker 1: she was like at these ATMs, but she was unsuccessful
Speaker 1: in getting money. So then Annie caught the bus from
Speaker 1: the central station and headed straight to the airport, where
Speaker 1: she was caught on CCTV footage. According to the footage,
Speaker 1: Annie was at the airport a total five minutes before
Speaker 1: she left, taking a totally different route. She didn't try
Speaker 1: to buy a ticket, She didn't really do anything. She
Speaker 1: sort of arrived at the airport and then left. Huh.
Speaker 1: Camera showed her leaving the airport through the short stay
Speaker 1: car park, suggesting that she planned on walking back into
Speaker 1: town instead of taking the bus. And it was it
Speaker 1: was this or sorry and this is where things got
Speaker 1: tricky again, Like it's just we're just all over our
Speaker 1: place here. Her family stated that the CCTV from the
Speaker 1: airport showed images of Annie looking angry, like she did
Speaker 1: not look happy, so they speculated if maybe she was
Speaker 1: perhaps planning to meet someone there and they didn't show
Speaker 1: And this is a side note that I haven't mentioned yet.
Speaker 1: One thing is that before Annie died, she had mentioned
Speaker 1: to her dad that she was going to get married.
Speaker 1: But that's all we know about that.
Speaker 2: Now. You just dropped this fucking bomb on us. Yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: what the fuck?
Speaker 1: So I think some people are like, maybe she was
Speaker 1: going to be meeting her future husband at the airport
Speaker 1: and like they were going to be going home together,
Speaker 1: but then he didn't show up.
Speaker 2: But she only waited five minutes. That's not that people
Speaker 2: are going to wait a lot longer than five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would unless they had messaged her or something.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but I mean two thousand and five phones
Speaker 2: weren't as prevalent then.
Speaker 1: I think in two thousand and five you still had
Speaker 1: a phone. We were in high school and we had phones.
Speaker 2: I didn't have a phone in high school. My parents
Speaker 2: didn't have cell phones on. I got my first phone,
Speaker 2: I think in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: Really, I'm like pretty certain I had a phone in
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, two thousands. I got a flip phone.
Speaker 2: I got my first the old school Nokia phone when
Speaker 2: I got my first job at that sawmill, because I
Speaker 2: was on call and I needed a way to make
Speaker 2: sure I was available for a call. And that's when
Speaker 2: I got my phone.
Speaker 1: Honestly, those were the good old days. Yeah, because the
Speaker 1: fact that you just have to be readily fucking available
Speaker 1: at any moment now sucks for anyone all the time,
Speaker 1: Like sucks. Yeah, that's my ted talk. Okay, So back
Speaker 1: to the airport. According and this kind of gets a
Speaker 1: little bit confusing, so I'm trying to like word it
Speaker 1: so it's not But according to the time stamps, Annie
Speaker 1: could have only reached the area she was spotted going
Speaker 1: into the airport to when she was seen leaving, the
Speaker 1: exact time frame that the time stamp on the footage
Speaker 1: said she had if she had been running. Oh, but
Speaker 1: the footage shows Annie carrying her bag and walking completely normal,
Speaker 1: And people had gone back and like tried to redo
Speaker 1: this and yeah, to do to get to where she was,
Speaker 1: you had have been like running.
Speaker 2: From like basically gate to gate sort of thing, right,
Speaker 2: kind Oh yeah, wow.
Speaker 1: So Annie left the airport at fifteen fifteen, and, according
Speaker 1: to more CCTV analysis, was believed to be seen again
Speaker 1: at sixteen oh five at Station Road. Then they can
Speaker 1: only say believe because the footage doesn't actually show the
Speaker 1: woman's face, but she has the same backpack as Annie,
Speaker 1: and that was enough for the place to determine that
Speaker 1: it was Annie. So the thing is like they're just
Speaker 1: assuming shit, Yeah, they are, like a lot of people
Speaker 1: have the same backpack. They don't make one of something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, just twenty minutes after Annie was supposedly at Station Road,
Speaker 1: two men reported seeing someone standing on the beach. The
Speaker 1: person had their hood up, and the men couldn't say
Speaker 1: if it had been a man or a woman, only
Speaker 1: that they seemed to be standing eerily still while staring
Speaker 1: out at the water. The men left the person alone
Speaker 1: and continued their walk along the beach, but when they
Speaker 1: were on their way back, this person was still standing there,
Speaker 1: just watching the water. The investigators determined from the report
Speaker 1: that this person was Annie and this was her amping
Speaker 1: herself up to commit suicide.
Speaker 2: Fuck that. I'm sorry. I've sat there watching water lots.
Speaker 1: I know what if you were just like a and
Speaker 1: they had no idea if this person was like a
Speaker 1: man or woman or yeah, I freaking love the ocean,
Speaker 1: so I could stand there for a while and just watch.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine if it's like everyone who just stood
Speaker 2: there watching a scenic landscape of some sort was just
Speaker 2: assumed that they're about to commit suicide. Yeah, Like, I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure that's damn near the fucking opposite. When I'm
Speaker 2: like I need to get out of this like depression state.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go look at something and relax.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, and just like, oh man, how can
Speaker 1: I get out of the situation. You're going to go
Speaker 1: to somewhere that's really beautiful and just take some deep
Speaker 1: breasts and just like try to get back get back
Speaker 1: on your groove exactly.
Speaker 2: So, so I no, I do not subscribe to that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah at all.
Speaker 1: So what exactly was Annie doing that day? And had
Speaker 1: the footage at the airport been altered or was there
Speaker 1: something missing from it all together? Had Annie been there
Speaker 1: to try to buy a ticket, or had she been
Speaker 1: there for some other reason? Now to bounce back to
Speaker 1: Christina Bouryessin. There's two theories there, the first one being
Speaker 1: that Annie herself was actually Christina.
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, what so.
Speaker 1: That Annie was actually this writer Christina. That's like, that's
Speaker 1: one very far out theory that some reports do say.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't technically believe that, but they're saying
Speaker 1: these two people were actually the same person and that
Speaker 1: Annie was actually like a journalist writing these stories.
Speaker 2: Okay, but do they know who Christina is today?
Speaker 1: Yes, I believe they do. So I don't think that
Speaker 1: that theory makes any sense, but I did read it,
Speaker 1: so I was like, I'm gonna put it in here.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure the family would be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's not our daughter.
Speaker 1: So the more common theory, though, is that this was
Speaker 1: a case of mistaken identity and this makes sense to me,
Speaker 1: and that Annie was mistaken to be Christina, and being
Speaker 1: that Christina had written an article on a pretty hot
Speaker 1: topic involving politics, perhaps security services believed Annie was in
Speaker 1: Scotland to investigate the airport. Yeah, and she attracted some
Speaker 1: unwonted attention that went south.
Speaker 2: Oh snap, Yeah, that's very plausible, actually, can I can
Speaker 2: totally see that.
Speaker 1: If only Annie's file offax could be found, which from
Speaker 1: what I can tell, is just like a planner. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you heard that file.
Speaker 2: Offax, No, can't say.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think it might be kind of
Speaker 1: from over there. So her file of flax and fleece
Speaker 1: jacket were the only two items missing from Annie's bay.
Speaker 1: Within her file of flax, Annie would have kept all
Speaker 1: her documentation together, her id, her money, and more importantly,
Speaker 1: Annie used it to keep detailed notes about her days,
Speaker 1: so her travel plans, maybe even contact information for this
Speaker 1: mysterious man who called himself Martin Leslie. Okay, the folder
Speaker 1: was believed by Annie's family to have the answers to
Speaker 1: many unknown questions, but unfortunately it was never discovered. But
Speaker 1: it was also never really searched for. Like they kind
Speaker 1: of thought they should have got the coastguards or something
Speaker 1: to search within the waters for this, but like nothing
Speaker 1: like that happened. Fuck Okay, So now the last thing
Speaker 1: we'll basically touch on is Annie's body being returned to
Speaker 1: Sweden so her family could bury her there. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were finally able to get their hands on some physical
Speaker 1: evidence to prove that their daughter didn't commit suicide. This
Speaker 1: was their hope. The first thing was that the Swedish Undertaker.
Speaker 1: Do you know what that is?
Speaker 2: Well? I know what an undertaker is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're not familiar with the term, I wasn't.
Speaker 1: An undertaker is basically like a funeral home operator, so
Speaker 1: someone who prepares bodies for burial.
Speaker 2: I learned what an undertaker was at a really young age.
Speaker 1: Really, I had never heard of Edward referred to that.
Speaker 2: Well. As a kid, I watched a bit of wrestling.
Speaker 2: There was a wrestler named the Undertaker.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what.
Speaker 2: It was because of him.
Speaker 1: I'm not like a huge fan of wrestling, but that's
Speaker 1: a terrific name for a wrestler, isn't it? Like it
Speaker 1: doesn't actually get better than Yeah?
Speaker 2: He was. He was like super goth and badass.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow.
Speaker 2: There was times he would like come out in a
Speaker 2: coffin and shit.
Speaker 1: Wow wow, like really went with that title?
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, yeah he did.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the Undertaker now I just can't think of
Speaker 1: this without thinking of that. Took one look at Annie's
Speaker 1: autopsy report and said the injuries stated in the report
Speaker 1: did not match with what they were seeing on her body.
Speaker 1: They claimed she had several bruises that seemed to be
Speaker 1: incurred while she was still alive, which the autopsy in
Speaker 1: Scotland hadn't recorded. Even when taking bruising and discolouration that
Speaker 1: happens after death into account, they couldn't see why the
Speaker 1: massive bruise on the side right arm and behind the
Speaker 1: ear that was larger than described hadn't been included in
Speaker 1: the report or looked at at looked into it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fucking I said it at the beginning. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I basically did. What did you say with those bruises?
Speaker 2: I was really suspect to those bruises, Okay, you know
Speaker 2: the importance of them in like bruce mortem or whatever.
Speaker 1: So I mean, and the thing is, like, I hope
Speaker 1: the undertaker would know so much, but then also it
Speaker 1: would they have. It's not like a like a autopsy. Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: So these findings only gave Annie's friends and family new
Speaker 1: hope that her case maybe could be reopened right.
Speaker 2: And deemed not a suicide. But no, really, no fuck.
Speaker 1: The family even reached out to the Swedish police so
Speaker 1: their own police, and begged for help with trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what happened to Annie. And noo sympathetic Swedish
Speaker 1: police told Annie's family that there was no way they
Speaker 1: could launch a separate investigation into Annie's death without jeopardizing
Speaker 1: Sweden's relationship with a foreign company. Our country. What the
Speaker 1: fuck's in the country.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I can I can totally understand.
Speaker 1: I can kind of understand that too, but gosh, his
Speaker 1: family just is like.
Speaker 2: Fucked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there's closure nothing. Yeah. And that's basically that
Speaker 1: the Scottish people certainly wanted answers, almost as much as
Speaker 1: that as Annie's family did.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure everyone does so much.
Speaker 1: So that anonymous person had placed a plaque on Preswick
Speaker 1: Bay that read Annie Boyesen born January seventh, nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: found dead December fourth, two thousand and five. Her loved
Speaker 1: ones never found out how or why a blot on
Speaker 1: Scotland's reputation for fairness.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And that's so that's a plot that's there or plague
Speaker 1: or yeah, plack plaque. Wow, good thing we're wrapping up here.
Speaker 2: It's no kidding roller coaster.
Speaker 1: So since Annie's death, her mother hasn't given up. She can't.
Speaker 1: She's campaigned relentlessly for official for an official inquest into
Speaker 1: her daughter's death, including presenting a three thousand signature petition
Speaker 1: to the Scottish Parliament at the end of twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: In regards to Scotland, she said, this is a beautiful
Speaker 1: country with lovely and caring people. Please do not leave
Speaker 1: them and our family with all these unanswered questions. All
Speaker 1: we want is a fatal accident inquiry into Annie's mysterious death.
Speaker 1: Please let us know why Annie had to die in
Speaker 1: the country she loved. Apparently too, there's a documentary in
Speaker 1: the works to cover any story. I came across a
Speaker 1: few articles from this past summer stating that a new
Speaker 1: four part series on the case called Body on the
Speaker 1: Beach is being made. I couldn't find the details on
Speaker 1: when it was expected to be released, but apparently it
Speaker 1: will present new evidence on the case. So if we
Speaker 1: hear anything in regards to it, we will definitely letch
Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah, so that's that.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, that's cool.
Speaker 1: So what do you think, So basically we have suicide?
Speaker 1: I mean we do. She was going through some She
Speaker 1: did seem like she was going through something, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean when some people aren't always open
Speaker 2: about their emotions and what they're going through. The people
Speaker 2: can be very private able they.
Speaker 1: Can, and they can and some people are very good
Speaker 1: at hiding showing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that could have simply been I mean, she
Speaker 2: potentially was getting married, so it could have been that
Speaker 2: she was just really trying to be quiet about this
Speaker 2: not say anything when she got home, which is why
Speaker 2: she seemed weird.
Speaker 1: Like it could have been a surprise or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it could have been something positive, even who knows, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: My full theory is I do think that her and
Speaker 2: Christina got mixed up, and I think whoever this was,
Speaker 2: this mysterious individual, this sexual predator as she labeled them,
Speaker 2: was behind it. I think there was at least two individuals,
Speaker 2: one that was corroborating with them, who was the potential fiance,
Speaker 2: and then the second individual who was the potential sex predator.
Speaker 2: I think they were corroborating thinking she was Christina trying
Speaker 2: to get within her life and get to the right
Speaker 2: point in time where they could dispose of her because
Speaker 2: of potentially what she could do for their business or
Speaker 2: whatever their business may be, or what they're involved with.
Speaker 2: So they wanted to get rid of her for any
Speaker 2: potential trouble she may caused not realizing they had the
Speaker 2: wrong person. They may have gotten rid of her and
Speaker 2: realized it was the wrong person, and we're just trying
Speaker 2: to cover their tracks on being like, oh shit, we
Speaker 2: got the wrong person. Or they could have just gotten
Speaker 2: rid of her and covered their tracks regardless and clean
Speaker 2: their hands of it realized later after the fact. But
Speaker 2: either way, I think two or more individuals were involved
Speaker 2: confused her with the wrong person, and she was subject
Speaker 2: to just a misfortunate understanding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, because it seems a lot of even
Speaker 1: the investigations, and it all just seems a little fishy,
Speaker 1: like that they're not digging in deep and just things
Speaker 1: are are not I don't know, I'm like things are
Speaker 1: being covered up almost not saying that the investigators are
Speaker 1: doing that, but something is fishy, and in this whole thing, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not sold that it's a government conspiracy kind of cover
Speaker 2: up the police or hiding something. I'm not sold on
Speaker 2: that because people all over just don't do their job
Speaker 2: on a day to day basis, no matter the fucking role.
Speaker 2: People get complacent, they become desensitized to their job, and
Speaker 2: they almost just don't care anymore. So I'm not convinced
Speaker 2: that it's someone's covering something up. I'm thinking that someone's like, Eh,
Speaker 2: it's suicide. They're just convincing theirselves at suicide and they're
Speaker 2: just washing their hands of it. Yeah, and now that
Speaker 2: new evidence is coming out, they just have to stand
Speaker 2: their ground on it and be like, no, we stand
Speaker 2: by what we said. It's suicide. Let's be over this
Speaker 2: and move on. But they just it's such a misunforce
Speaker 2: a miss. It's such an unfortunate situation that this oversight
Speaker 2: on whoever made that call, it keeps coming back to
Speaker 2: haunt them, and they just have to keep holding their ground.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what's super unfortunate is that the family, I mean,
Speaker 1: this was in two thousand and five and they have
Speaker 1: not gotten any answers and they're trying, like this just
Speaker 1: must be exhausting to them, like exhausting and just so sad.
Speaker 1: So I feel like this case was kind of all
Speaker 1: over the place, and it's so much information, but it
Speaker 1: was also one that I felt like should be out there.
Speaker 1: And I really really hope this documentary comes out and
Speaker 1: that maybe it has does have new new findings, and
Speaker 1: that maybe that this can be closed because that would
Speaker 1: be amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh, it would be. And the difficult thing with like
Speaker 2: mysterious or unknown cases that don't have an answer. We
Speaker 2: don't know what happened, so there's no real storyline to follow.
Speaker 2: It's just pick all the information we can and put
Speaker 2: it in best chronological order. Yeah, so sometimes it seems
Speaker 2: all over the place because that's that's all we have.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean her final days they were it
Speaker 1: was very mysterious, like what was going on? And then
Speaker 1: I think things she seemed like she was places where
Speaker 1: she wasn't and yeah, because the investigation wasn't really super thorough.
Speaker 1: So I was just I don't know, this case is
Speaker 1: going to actually haunt me a little bit because like I.
Speaker 2: Can see that. Yeah, yeah, fair enough, Okay, well done
Speaker 2: on that. If you guys want to go check out
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Speaker 2: even while Nicole was doing this podcast, I just uploaded
Speaker 2: a photo of our dog, Ripley sleeping.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's why you were on the phone, That's why.
Speaker 2: I was on my phone. Well, she was sleeping, she
Speaker 2: was curled up, and she had her little stuffed beer bottle.
Speaker 2: It looked like she was passed out from just drinking
Speaker 2: too much. Soe yea, I can get that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But of course, no pressure. If you just want to
Speaker 2: be here chatting with us as you listening to the
Speaker 2: podcast as totally cool too. We appreciate it just the
Speaker 2: same we do. Yeah, anything else, I think that's it.
Speaker 1: I think that's totally it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well, we appreciate you guys being here,
Speaker 2: and until next episode, stay wicked.