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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge.

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Speaker 2: Now Here are your hosts.

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Speaker 1: Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin.

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Speaker 3: Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an Edge, John, Bob.

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Speaker 4: Dancer, and I'm Richard Munchkin.

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Speaker 3: Today we're speaking with Antonino de Rosa, known as AUNT,

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a sports better who's work starting out on the other

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side of the street, working for the biggest sports book

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in the world.

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Speaker 2: Aunt.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Gambling with an Edge.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Before you started on either side of the sports betting world,

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you were a magic the gathering player. When was this?

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Speaker 2: I started playing magic in high school, but I became

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a magic professional in nineteen ninety nine and I played

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magic professionally for five or six years.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Money is in professional magic.

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Speaker 2: Not much. I think my best year I made one

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hundred and ten grand.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's a lot. It's professional just players often make.

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Speaker 2: But most of the times, you know, like a good

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year would be anywhere from forty to sixty back then.

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The reason why some people choose that profession is not

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really from the money you win at tournaments. Just like

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an how any discipline you can make extra money by

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writing articles. You can make extra money from sports sponsorships.

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You know. It's if you're a single dude and you're

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in college, it's a great gig, you know. But if

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you want to start a family or have aspirations, you know,

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it's it's pretty tough.

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Speaker 1: What skills do Successful magic players.

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Speaker 3: Need to have.

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Speaker 2: Recognizing patterns mostly, but also trying to think. So magic

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is kind of like kind of like chess, but with

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with imperfect information. So so you know, you have a

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deck of cards, and you can make assumptions on what

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kind of cards they have in their deck, So you

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have to you have to really make decisions based on

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what is the chance that he has that card in

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his hand or even in his deck. So so you

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kind of just you kind of want to like, you know,

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you need the skills of like trying to figure out

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like where your opponent might be up to, and so

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you want to always think a few turns ahead. Unlike

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chess and magic, every turn could be so drastically different

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that you can really plan too too many turns ahead.

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But you know, you can plan two or three turns ahead,

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you know, pretty easily. The funnest part of magic, which is,

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you know some like the part that nobody talks about

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is not really the well at least the part I

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enjoyed wasn't. It wasn't really the game. It was the

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I have a pool of five thousand cards. I can

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only bring sixty to a tournament. Now I have to

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choose my sixty cards. And the way you choose your

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sixty cards is you want your your cards to work

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together and do something cool and you know, powerful, but

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you also want something a strategy that beats what the

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other people were bringing, so trying to predict what kind

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of cards other people would have in their decks. So

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I was always one of those people that brought a

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deck that was not considered the best deck, but it

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was a deck that was good against the best deck.

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But then you can like even go one step ahead,

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and it said, if everybody has that thinking, everyone's going

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to have the deck that beats the best deck. So

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what is the third deck that beats what beats the

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best deck? You know? So I always enjoyed that type

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of metagame stuff, So I think I was pretty good

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at that. So that was that was one of my edges.

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Speaker 4: Did you start out playing other games before you got

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into Magic?

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Speaker 2: For sure, just like probably most of your guests. You know,

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my parents would play cards when I was a kid,

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so I loved watching them playing, you know, poker with

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their friends. But as a kid, we used to play

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these card games with There's a special car card deck

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in Italy. I don't know if you guys ever seen it,

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but it's a forty card deck and it's kind of

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like a poker deck but not really. And there's a

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whole bunch of games you can play with this deck.

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You know. There's a game called scopa, which means broom,

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and then another game called Briscola. So I used to

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play these games with my grandparents, my parents, and I

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was always fascinated by card games.

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Speaker 4: So you grew up in Italy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. I moved in the state. I moved

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to the States when I was twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: How's being a magic player similar to gambling? How is

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it different?

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Speaker 2: It's different because you you it's really hard too. In

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most gambling things, like the ones you guys talk about

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here on your show, where you know you get you

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can get a lot of volume down. And magic there's

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infinite variants because a magic tournament might only be where

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you play twelve opponents, so you can get pretty unlucky

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one or two matches and then you can't win the

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magic tournament anymore. So the variance is really high. And

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it's not like there's too many magic tournaments. You know,

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there's maybe like one a week somewhere in the world,

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so it's really hard to get lots of volume down.

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It's very similar to gambling because you know, it's not

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like that you have to pay buy ins to go

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to tournaments. A lot of the tournaments that give up

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prizes you have to be invited to based on your rankings,

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so you're not paying the buy in to go. But

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you know, it is kind of gambling because, as you know,

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the first guy's going to win, I don't know, thirty grand,

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the second guy will win twenty grand, you know, so

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you know, you do play some matches for a lot

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of money. So that's similar to gambling.

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Speaker 4: And did you think that magic was a good preparation

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for going into gambling.

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Speaker 2: Oh, to be honest, I never I never had any

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intentions of going to gambling when I was playing Magic.

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I just thought the game was fun and I really

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liked the feeling when you win a big tournament you

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can say to yourself, oh, I was the smartest person

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here this week, And you know that's what drove me

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to keep playing other than the game was fun. But

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while I was playing Magic, and even after I stopped

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playing professionally got my first job, I never once thought

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that I was going to pursue a career in gambling. No.

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Speaker 4: I meant the skills that you use in a game

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like Magic. Did you do you think those translated over?

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Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent? You know it one of the

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one of like So you know, I have a small

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betting syndicate and one of our biggest edges is uh,

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it's really trying to understand what other betters will do

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in the marketplace. And and I think I only have

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that skill because I did play Magic. You know. A

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simple example could be the Kansas City Chiefs are losing

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at halftime of an NFL an NFL game. It's obvious

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people are going to bet my homes to come back

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and win. He's done it so many times. So if

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you think like that, you know you can get a

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lot better prices, you know, on your bets if you wait,

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or you know, if you don't wait.

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Speaker 4: Depending on which side you think is actually correct.

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Speaker 2: Correct, you know, and that you know it goes even

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as simple as as simple as if I like the Yankees,

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you know this this morning, I'm going to bet them

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right away. But if I like their opponents on my

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way to post. You know, there is you know, that

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type of stuff that you know a lot of great

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sports betters, you know, in this space, they don't think

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about when is it actually the right time to actually

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get in with your bet And you know, I do.

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Speaker 1: Feel magic does teach you some of that. How did

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you get started at Pinnacle?

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Speaker 2: So I've said the story many times in many podcasts,

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but I'll just keep it very short. There was a

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guy in New York who was crushing Pinnacle for millions

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of dollars.

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Speaker 4: Not easy to.

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Speaker 2: Do, not easy to do. In two thousand and seven,

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I think Pinnacle closed their door to Americans. They reached

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out to him and hired them. Said can't betty anymore,

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but we would love to hire you. This gentleman went

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down to New York, down to Cursow. And the story

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that has been all the way it's been told is

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they ask him, They asked them a buddy, like, why

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why do you get to beat us? You know, for

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so much money. And he said, in a very in

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a very unpolite way, said, the reason why I get

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to beat you guys is because all the people behind

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these computers are not all that smart. And ORDERS asked them,

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where do we find smart people like you? And he

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laughed and said, well, those don't really exist. But if

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you if you want to find smart people, you should

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try to see. There's this thing called magic. The people

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that play magic are because he was a magic player himself.

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And uh. And then Pinnacle what they did is they

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literally went down to the magic standings of you know

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the best players were, and they started calling them. And

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I was eight or ninth or tenth on the list

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when I got the phone call.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's funny because they one of the founders

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of Pinnacle was Stan Thompson, who was.

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Speaker 2: I worked with Stan all the time. He was actually,

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let's call a little mentor. He plays Beckham and right

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is that you guys know him? Right?

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Speaker 4: And And I was just gonna say, I I know

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a backham And player who has a very similar ego

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to that guy you were talking, who I believe now

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works at Pinnacle. I don't know how long you've been there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the Pinnacle player. You I don't know for a

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lot to say names, but Willcox, Yeah, there you go.

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So yeah, Will Cox was actually so so just you know,

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I love talking about Stan and Will because they taught

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me so much. But Stan, uh when his eyes started

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giving up giving out, uh, they assigned me to him

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to help him trade and you know, help him to

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see that because he wasn't able to see some of

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the stuff that was going on in the monitor. And

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uh so over the years he's taught me a lot.

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Then when Stan stepped away, Will was actually my direct

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boss for a long time. He was he was he

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was an NBA trader. He was in charge of the

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NBA and I was not saying I'm his right hand man,

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but there was a few of us that would, you know,

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give him support. Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 4: I interviewed Stan for my book and the one thing

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that I was really sorry about was we couldn't talk

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about Pinnacle at all, you know, so we could only

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talk about sort of the gambling he had done in

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the past. But the boy that would I you know,

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I'm sorry he passed and I gather he had dementia

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at the end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he did it. It didn't end very well. I

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I think I was around two thousand and seventeen when

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he fully stepped away from Pinnacle and we kind of

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lost contact. But you know, some people think he was

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very unpolite who are thought very high to leave himself.

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But I always found him to be such like a

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kind guy and you know, just a really you know,

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pleasant person to be around. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So NBA at Pinnacle, what did you do? And how

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you went in there not knowing anything about NBA or

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anything about gambling? How did you get good at? It?

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Speaker 2: Took some time? But uh, you know another funny story

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I like to tell is I remember the very first

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day they put me in front of the NBA uh

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and say, hey, you're in charge of the totals and

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uh and here and here's this program called Dumb Best.

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And I found it so funny that every time I

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moved one of my odds, all these other sportsbooks will

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follow me, you know, and I literally had no clue.

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And uh, I always uh, I'm like, man, if I

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do bad, everyone else is going to do bad. And

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I found that very humorous. But no, it took it

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took time. Pinnacle at this approach where they would put

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you in front of the screen without basically any training,

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and they would just say figure it out, and and

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we figured it out. They got very lucky because they

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hired a bunch of magic players who are very competitive,

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who really cared about winning, even though it wasn't our money.

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And we were all a bunch of single dudes on

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this island with no friends or family, so we all

241
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were always hang out even when we weren't working, and

242
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what do you think we were talking about work so

243
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,320
and and the conversations would be like, hey, I you know,

244
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,399
I was trading and then this this customer wins at

245
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,519
this percentage, bets here, I moved it to this, and

246
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,480
then this other guy bet this other the other side,

247
00:13:36,039 --> 00:13:38,039
Like where would you have moved it? And we would

248
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,960
like argue about it for hours on end, you know,

249
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like if my line should have been minus one of

250
00:13:42,799 --> 00:13:45,440
six or minus one of eight, like like it matters.

251
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You know now looking back, it probably didn't matter much,

252
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,159
but uh, but yeah, we just learned by teaching each

253
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other and by just you know, really caring about doing well.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like a great place to be as a young person.

255
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really fun.

256
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Speaker 1: So you had to have days where you lost and

257
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weeks that you lost. Did this eat you up? Or

258
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,440
was it stands money and you didn't care or what?

259
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Speaker 2: Well, well we always cared a bit, but no, we

260
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,039
when we lost, like it definitely hit me up, like

261
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a me up. I would like go back and look, like,

262
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,039
Pinnacle System was really nice. You can go and look

263
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,080
at the line of street, the order of the bets,

264
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how you moved off of each bet. So I would

265
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always go back and look, is like, is there something

266
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,960
I could have done different? And you know, and we

267
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,279
would always compare notes with the other traders. But at

268
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,639
the end if I want or lost, it didn't really

269
00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:46,360
you know, we would get a bonus at the end

270
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,799
of the year based on how much money you want,

271
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but it wasn't like that big of a difference, you know,

272
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So like we just tried to win. But the funny

273
00:14:55,799 --> 00:14:58,200
part about working out a sportsbooks and I always say this,

274
00:14:58,879 --> 00:15:04,840
is that that the trader himself has very little upside

275
00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:09,200
of taking a big stand. So so a lot of

276
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:12,279
traders what they do is they try to stay out

277
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,200
of trouble, right, they trade their game and the one

278
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,240
thing they don't want is the boss to call them

279
00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:22,159
and ask them why did you lose so much? Right?

280
00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:24,679
Because most bosses they will call you and ask you

281
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,399
why did you lose so much? But whenever you get

282
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,000
a phone call saying good job, you want as a

283
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,960
lot of money last night. Right, So there's this balance

284
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,559
that you have to try. Like and I had this

285
00:15:34,879 --> 00:15:38,360
like little nick not nickname, but they will call me

286
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,960
loose cannon sometimes because I would take lots of big

287
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,799
risks because I thought it was right. Like you know,

288
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,639
but I don't think about that. It's still a business

289
00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:51,600
and they have to meet quotas and they have people

290
00:15:51,679 --> 00:15:54,720
they have to make happy. But I will always try

291
00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:56,919
to make the right decision, even if it mentum was

292
00:15:56,919 --> 00:15:58,399
going to get a phone call if I lost.

293
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 4: So they really I'm kind of surprised that they, I mean,

294
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,600
unless it was a decision where they could go, this

295
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,159
was the wrong decision as opposed to well, this was

296
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,960
the right play. We just got unlucky, you know. Yeah,

297
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,600
they would try to distinguish between those two things.

298
00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of times when you got one of

299
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,000
those phone calls, if you explain your reasoning for doing something,

300
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,960
they they would still try to find you know, like

301
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,639
you did maybe something wrong or maybe instead of risking

302
00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:35,840
five hundred k usuld of only risked four hundred or whatever. Right,

303
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,720
they would still say those type of things, but usually

304
00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:40,960
if you explain to them why you were doing something,

305
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,039
they were pretty understandable and they, you know, would say okay,

306
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,840
and just please next time, try to be a little

307
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:51,879
more risk averse. The way Pinnacle did it a little

308
00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:57,480
bit was the bosses, you know, the stands of the world.

309
00:16:58,039 --> 00:17:01,919
They would give us maxillent. It's on our games, right,

310
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,880
So if I'm trading an NBA total and my max

311
00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:08,519
limit is twenty thousand dollars, what they wanted you to

312
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,680
do is your position should not be bigger than three

313
00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:14,279
times the amount your max wager unless you have a

314
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,720
reason to be bigger than three times your max wager. Now,

315
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,559
sportsbooks nowadays that kick out winners, they don't have that

316
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,680
problem because it doesn't really matter. Losers will lose their

317
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,559
money all at the end, and it doesn't matter if

318
00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:35,039
you risk a lot little if all your customers are square,

319
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:36,920
eventually they're just going to lose it right back, right.

320
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:40,880
But a Pinnacle, we really try to keep our positions

321
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,759
two three times the amount of our max wager because

322
00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,319
most of the most of the customers at Pinnacle are

323
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,880
actually sharp. There's very little few squares that bet in there.

324
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: You know, every gambler has bad beat. Yeah, now, bookies,

325
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,000
since there are in every game every day, I must

326
00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:03,759
have tons more bad beats.

327
00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 2: Oh, there's tons of bad beats. I could remember, you dude.

328
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: You so this was, you know, more than a decade ago.

329
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,759
Do any of these from that time period bad beats

330
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:18,240
still irk at you? Or is it just since shit

331
00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:19,039
happens move on?

332
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 2: Well, I I don't know if urk is the right word,

333
00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:26,400
but there's definitely some funny stories that I remember, you

334
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:28,960
know or someone some games, So there was a do

335
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,759
you guys remember I don't know if you guys watched sports,

336
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,480
but Ray Allen hit that three pointer against the Sanitary

337
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:38,519
Spurs and the finals of the NBA Finals Miami. So

338
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,519
the last three minutes of the game, the Spurs were winning,

339
00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:46,720
and the Spurs were winning the whole last three minutes

340
00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:49,519
of the game, and I was trading NBA live. I

341
00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:52,119
was trading that game live, and there was not a

342
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,240
price that I could post on the website where people

343
00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:59,880
would not bet my end. So the math model would say, okay,

344
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,680
Miami needs to be minus two hundred. I sorry, plus

345
00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:08,599
two hundred. I would post plus one fifty and bets

346
00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:11,839
would come in. Then in the very next minute, the

347
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,039
model would say Miami needs to be plus two fifty

348
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,000
and I would post plus one seventy five and bets

349
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,720
would all come in. And as every bet would come in,

350
00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:22,440
I would keep moving the line. It would get lower

351
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,960
and lower and lower. There was not a price that

352
00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:27,720
you could post in that moment that people would not

353
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:30,599
bet Miami heat. That was the days of Lebron, James

354
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,440
win Wade and Chris Bosh And to lose that game,

355
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,680
I think I lost almost two million dollars in that

356
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:43,759
live game. And I remember I remember like I thought

357
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,480
I had traded it perfectly. I'm getting great prices, a

358
00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:51,400
bunch of money. But at the end, you know, I

359
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,279
did get that phone call, what did you lose so much?

360
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:56,519
And it was basically trying to explain to them the

361
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:58,720
only way I would have not lost this much money

362
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,599
is just not to post the That was the only solution, right,

363
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:05,799
But I was. I remember I was in Italy at

364
00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:08,920
the time, working from home, and that three pointer from

365
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,559
reality goes in and I'm just staring at a wall

366
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,559
by myself at six in the morning, you know, and gamblers.

367
00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:18,440
I'm sure you guys feel the same. It's hard for

368
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,880
us to talk to our family members or our friends

369
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:28,319
there aren't gamblers because they can't relate, right. But you know,

370
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,359
I could tell you so many Beadby stories, but maybe

371
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:32,640
that will be for a new podcast.

372
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 3: Okay, So you didn't last at Pinnacle forever. When did

373
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:41,599
you leave and why?

374
00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:46,880
Speaker 2: The reason I left in two thousand, between the end

375
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:52,640
of twenty seventeen maybe yeah, twenty seventeen. I left mostly

376
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:56,440
because I wanted to learn new skills and I wanted

377
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,559
to do something that still in the gambling, but I

378
00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:04,880
was just trading the NBA and the NBA only, And

379
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,079
when I tried to do other things within Pinnacle, I

380
00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:11,200
was getting a lot of pushback. They wanted me to

381
00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:13,440
stay there, mostly because I was doing a good job,

382
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,119
is my guest. Or maybe they didn't think I would

383
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,559
be good at anything else. I'm not really sure. So

384
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,160
when I tried to get different jobs within Pinnacle and

385
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,759
I always got denied, I decided it was time to go.

386
00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:31,000
And the place I went next was plant Tech, which

387
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,519
is its the b to b that actually powers Beckris.

388
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:42,480
So with Adam Bjorn, Yeah, with Adam Burn. So I

389
00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:47,079
was there for a couple of years only. So at Pinnacle,

390
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,400
there was a moment during Pinnacle that I went to

391
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,640
the Philippines and open up an office in the Philippines

392
00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:59,079
for Pinnacle. And when I went to plan at Tech,

393
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,119
they asked me, can you do the same for us?

394
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,839
So I went for a couple of years in the

395
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,039
Philippines and opened up a trading floor higher traders. And

396
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:11,839
I don't know, if you know, your listeners may or

397
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,279
may not know. Before this happened in two thousand and

398
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:21,599
early twenty eighteen, you know, Beckris didn't offer international basketball

399
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:25,440
or all the soccer games or in tennis, you know,

400
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:28,279
in the middle of the night. Now they do, and

401
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,680
it's you know, I would like to say that maybe

402
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,559
I had something to do with that.

403
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: Wow, Oh, how is your responsibilities at plant Tech different

404
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:40,039
than what you were doing at.

405
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 2: I was less in the box, as I call it.

406
00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:46,720
I was mostly teaching people instead of trading. I was

407
00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:52,319
mostly managing and and there was and there was a

408
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,480
lot of There was a lot of you know, you're

409
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:00,599
doing so many different things, and I like that I

410
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,599
got to work with third party, third party providers and

411
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:07,640
learn about how some of that stuff works. I got

412
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,440
to trade a bunch of different sports that I might

413
00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:12,799
have traded early in my Pinnacle career, but I haven't

414
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:15,799
traded in so long. And uh, you know, I got

415
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,319
to relearn how to trade soccer live and tennis live

416
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,519
and all these other things. So that was really fun.

417
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:24,240
And that's that's the biggest difference.

418
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 5: And and so then what when what was the transition

419
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:35,240
from working for the sports books too against Yeah? All right,

420
00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:39,119
So so the way I started betting was mostly because

421
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,000
I a Pinnacle. We used to do NBA live and

422
00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:45,640
we used to do it by hand basically. Okay, later

423
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,960
on models came and spreadsheets and YadA, YadA, YadA, but

424
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,799
at the beginning it was mostly by hand. And I

425
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,039
felt that there was a lot of things that the

426
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,039
markets were not pricing correctly based on so many games

427
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:02,000
that I traded over the years. So while I was

428
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:06,920
still a plan attack, I reached out to somebodies of

429
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:11,240
mine who were you know, people like people that gathered

430
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:14,559
accounts and you know, give them out to sharp betters.

431
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,720
And I said, listen, guys, I think I have an

432
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,759
opportunity that we can bet. So we started with only

433
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,920
NBA second halfs at first, but I said, we can

434
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,880
bet NBA live. I think there's a pretty big leak

435
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,200
out there that we can try to exploit. So me

436
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,680
and two other guys we got together and every night

437
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,799
after I was done working, we would get together and

438
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,160
we would bet on the NBA. So we did this

439
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,079
for about a year, and we kept winning and winning,

440
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,799
and as you win in this PPH world, people are

441
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,720
more eager to give you even more and more.

442
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:52,039
Speaker 2: Accounts, so so we kept growing that way. We were

443
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,240
trying not to hit Pinnacle or hit plan Attack. Well

444
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:58,039
I was working at planettech That's why I didn't want

445
00:24:58,079 --> 00:25:01,240
to hit them. But some of the Shark supports books,

446
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,839
if you have an edge, you actually don't want to

447
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,400
bet there because they're really good at reverse engineering it.

448
00:25:08,319 --> 00:25:12,240
So so we basically just never bet at any of

449
00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:16,079
those places. We only bet at PPHS and like you know,

450
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,680
places like Better five or you know, fandel and Drafting

451
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,759
didners Is at the time, but as some of the

452
00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:26,720
places there were not as sharp, and and then as

453
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,519
you know, we kept doing better better. By the second year,

454
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,440
we had so many PPH accounts that we decided that

455
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:38,880
it was time to try to either give them out

456
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,799
to other sharp betters or to start betting other things

457
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,200
because you have all this liquidity and nothing to bet

458
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,519
like that would not be you know why.

459
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 4: And you weren't losing the accounts. They weren't shutting them down.

460
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: Of course, they were shutting them down, you know. So

461
00:25:57,519 --> 00:25:59,759
they were shutting them down, you know. But but the

462
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:02,319
the people that were bringing them to us, they kept

463
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,119
hustling to get more and more and more. So currently

464
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,200
for the last few years, we currently have two hundred

465
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,880
to four hundred PPH accounts at all times, always always active.

466
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,559
So the way we grew into more and more betting

467
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,400
was mostly because we had all these accounts and we

468
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,319
didn't have other other than NBA Live. We didn't have

469
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,759
anything else to put in them. So some with my

470
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,400
sportsbook contacts, because I knew all the best betters in

471
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,880
the world because I see their bets when I worked

472
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,720
Finnacle and when I worked at Plan Attack, so I

473
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,000
reached out to some and said, hey, listen, you know,

474
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:47,200
we can maybe help you get down and things like that. So,

475
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,279
you know, to this day now I have seventeen employees

476
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,319
to partners, and we bet all day long on all

477
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,880
the sports. Some of our bet a lot of our

478
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,279
our bets, and some are other people's.

479
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:05,039
Speaker 3: Bet Did your experience being a bookie off shore help

480
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,200
what you're doing today other than giving you contact with

481
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:08,839
some people?

482
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is is a lot of times you

483
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:19,039
know what sportsbooks are pricing right or not pricing right right.

484
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,559
And I'll give an example. You know, this is something

485
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,640
that this is something that we currently bet, but I

486
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,240
don't think anybody's going to I don't think anybody's going to,

487
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,960
you know, steal it from us. So so most sharp

488
00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:38,519
betters in soccer, as an example, they nobody ever bets

489
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:41,559
the draw. Okay, they either bet a team to win

490
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,240
or the other team to win, or them on the

491
00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:45,319
Asian handicap. I don't know how much you guys know

492
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,359
about the Asian handicap, but it's basically a spread that's

493
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,880
closest to fifty to fifty and that's what people bet.

494
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,799
So nobody knows sharp. I've never seen a sharp better

495
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,799
bet the draw. So then you ask yourself, is like,

496
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,440
is nobody betting the draw? Right?

497
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:02,799
Speaker 1: Is it?

498
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: Because is it hard to quantify? Or because most people,

499
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,599
if they want to draw, they're just gonna bet on

500
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,839
the underdog. Now, if the sports books don't have any

501
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,839
information on people betting the draw, all right, their line

502
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,039
is less sharp. Right. So now one of the things

503
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,279
we bet is soccer draws, where I know nobody else bets,

504
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,079
and it's mostly because they're a little bit hard to

505
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,519
quantify and be the sportsbooks soccer draw price isn't very

506
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:36,400
good because they don't have anything other than bets on

507
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,720
the favorite or the underdog saying what that price should be.

508
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,960
But in soccer there's this weird thing that certain leagues

509
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:47,920
are more likely to draw than others. So you have

510
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,279
to be able to quantify that too. So there's things

511
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,240
like that that you learn. Another thing I learned as

512
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,839
sports books that this is this is rampant. Everybody knows

513
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,759
about this. You get to see out people manipulate the markets.

514
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,519
The biggest groups manipulate, star lizards manipulates, like everybody manipulates. Right,

515
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,839
we might be I'm not saying, I'm not claiming we're big,

516
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,079
but we might be one of the fews that don't write.

517
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,559
And so if you can identify when people manipulate, and

518
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,400
you can quantify roughly, you don't even have to be exact.

519
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:27,039
You can quantify the game, what the price should maybe be,

520
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,039
and you can see how people manipulate, which I've learned

521
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,880
only working at plan Attech. You know, then sometimes you

522
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,880
can make assumptions on this market is being manipulated by somebody.

523
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,200
I don't know who it is. Maybe I should just

524
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,799
take the other side. You know, there's there's a lot

525
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,160
of things that you learn as sportsbooks, you know, that

526
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,039
can give you, you know, an advantage betting.

527
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:57,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, I you know, I've always said that my experience

528
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:02,960
working in the casino was invaluable for or becoming playing

529
00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:06,720
on the other side. I mean, it's just so helpful

530
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:10,240
to know what's going on. Also, I would assume you

531
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,079
learned a lot about I mean, I understand Pinnacle didn't

532
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:18,039
back people off, but you know, still you must have

533
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,000
learned a lot about what the books look for in

534
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,839
terms of limiting players or whatever.

535
00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: Of course, like you know, do you you know there's

536
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:33,359
things like you know, obviously we all know that sportsbooks

537
00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:37,640
have technology technology that can see your mac address on

538
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,400
your computer or on your phone. So every time you

539
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,559
get into account, you have to change your device you know,

540
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:47,880
I learned very quickly that if I was going to

541
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,079
have a beard make me an account, it shouldn't be

542
00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:54,759
a girl's name, because sportsbooks, once they see the girls name,

543
00:30:54,839 --> 00:30:58,279
they know, you know, there is things that you do learn,

544
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,119
you know, and yeah.

545
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: You know.

546
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: I I was talking to a bookmaker in Ireland and

547
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,319
we were talking about whether they use a browser or

548
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,480
a phone, and and I don't know if it's the

549
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:24,599
same in the United States, but there he said, ninety

550
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,119
five percent of people bet on a phone, and of

551
00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:31,880
the five percent that use a browser, ninety five percent

552
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,839
of them are sharp.

553
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was it was a big tell to yeah,

554
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,079
to use the phone. Most most most recreational betters, they're

555
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,519
betting from their phone, you know, when they're on the

556
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,880
on the metro or in the bathroom or whatever.

557
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 4: You know.

558
00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: Most people are, you know, using the computer. Maybe they're

559
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,759
not professional, maybe they are, but they're definitely price sensitive

560
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:57,599
because they probably are looking at multiple sites, you know,

561
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,799
at the same time. And you know, there's a there's

562
00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:06,359
a there's a big sports book in Asia called sing Bat.

563
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,839
I don't know if you guys ever heard of it.

564
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,440
They're they're actually the biggest sportsbook in the world then,

565
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,200
but nobody knows. Uh. They basically have all the gray

566
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,400
market from China and UH and their accounts. If you

567
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:23,440
use your if you use your phone, they cull you

568
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:26,759
pretty sorry. If you use the web browser, they call

569
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:28,559
you pretty fast. But if you use your phone, you

570
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,799
actually last a long time.

571
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: You went a little bit fast when you said you

572
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:36,319
don't use girls' names, because when it's a girl's names,

573
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:41,799
the casino does something. So I miss what your point was.

574
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:45,039
Speaker 2: No, So so when when a new account comes in,

575
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:49,640
UH at a sportsbook, if your name is a girl's name,

576
00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:54,200
they know that. Most of the time is either the

577
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,119
husband using the wife's name or some sharcked recycling names.

578
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,519
But eventually girls' names have to come up. There's not

579
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,839
many sports betting girls. Maybe there's sports betting slot players

580
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,640
and there's sports betting. Uh, there's girls who play blackjack.

581
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,119
But in the sports betting industry, do you guys know

582
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,240
many girls that bet? I can only think of a few.

583
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,559
So whenever you have a you're trying to beer into

584
00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:26,039
a place with using a girl's name, that is giving

585
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,079
like alarm belts to the sports book. So at Pinnacle,

586
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,480
whenever a girl would sign up, we would put her

587
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:38,000
at a higher auto mover than when a boys signed up.

588
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:40,559
You know, an automover is just a machine that moves

589
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:43,240
the line when you bet, so instead of maybe twenty percent,

590
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:44,640
they got forty percent whatever.

591
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:49,559
Speaker 4: So when you were working for Pinnacle and plant Tech,

592
00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:54,799
how how did they go about I mean, how how

593
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:57,759
long at leash did somebody get before they would identify

594
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,079
them as a sharp player or what was what was

595
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,880
the process of identifying sharp play?

596
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: So the way we used to do it is a

597
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:09,719
lot of times you can tell, like if the trader's

598
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,400
paying attention, you can identify sharp better in three bets.

599
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,320
Oh look, this guy bet me a minus six, and

600
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,360
two seconds later the whole market moved, right, So that's

601
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:26,960
that's an easy tell. Usually usually about around forty or

602
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,679
fifty bets. The automation that they have where you can

603
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,559
look up at an account and it tells you if

604
00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:35,719
you're beating the closing line, you know by how much.

605
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,760
That's usually you know, if you have forty or fifty

606
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,480
wagers where you're constantly beating the closing line, you know,

607
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,280
that's that's a good tell, right, because to beat the

608
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,239
closing line if I bet minus one ten and the

609
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,079
line closes minus one fifteen, I didn't beat anything, you know,

610
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,199
like I have to be able to overcome the vig

611
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,000
before I actually beat something. So so you know, just

612
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,280
some people I always see, Oh, I bet the line

613
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,599
minus one ten and then moved to minus one sixteen.

614
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:08,760
I beat the closing line. No, you didn't even beat

615
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,239
the viig. You know you're still paying you know you're

616
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,639
still paying vig on on that bet. But the you know,

617
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,960
they have programs that catch stuff pretty fast, or at

618
00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:23,519
least run a report pretty fast. But the best way

619
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:25,679
to catch them is just a trader just watch them.

620
00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:31,480
Imagine imagine working at a place where you have Venezuelan customers,

621
00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:34,480
not that I you know Venezuelan customers. The only time

622
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:37,960
you see them betting is about two seconds before a goal.

623
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:42,920
You can assume that they have a faster feed somehow, right,

624
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,159
So you know, the huan the human eye does a lot.

625
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,440
But they also have great reporting and great tools to

626
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:55,840
try to catch people. And the reason why they would

627
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:58,159
do this is not to kick anybody out. A plan

628
00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:01,840
at Tech or Pinnacle is to put more settings intoir

629
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,719
accounts as in as in maybe this person needs an

630
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,159
extra few seconds delay. Maybe this person he is a

631
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,840
higher auto moover. You know they're they're trying to be fair.

632
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:17,559
They just don't want to be stolen from sure, which

633
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,960
you know it's it's a conversation. You know that we

634
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:25,400
can go on. I'm I'm known for for always being

635
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,159
on the side of the sports book, so you know,

636
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,440
maybe that does not vibe much with advantage play, but

637
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,280
I always feel that it's okay to beat a sportsbook.

638
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,559
You just want to do it fairly.

639
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,199
Speaker 1: We're running out of time. But before the show, a

640
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,280
man named Scott, a friend of Richard's in mine, came

641
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,519
up and you said, you have a good Scott story.

642
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: I love Scott. He's the nicest guy, no like you.

643
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,119
Richard said that he asked Scott if he had any

644
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:03,119
good Antennino stories, and Scott said, I can't tell them

645
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:05,599
on air, but I want to tell kind of a

646
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:11,440
funny story. Scott really loves bat Bash, and this past

647
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:16,039
last bat Bash, he created a secret meeting at five

648
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:17,800
in the morning. I don't know if you guys heard

649
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,000
about this. He created a secret meeting at five in

650
00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:24,400
the morning when a guy was going to and The

651
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,000
reason why he chose five in the morning is because

652
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,440
because the thing that happens happens at eight in the

653
00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:33,119
morning in the East coast, so it needed to be

654
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,280
five o'clock and in Las Vegas. And there was a

655
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,239
guy who claimed that he could he could see all

656
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:45,000
of the sharpest group who was betting baseball bets before

657
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:48,039
they would actually hit the market. So there was this

658
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:50,840
guy on his computer. You know, he had a cool

659
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,000
projector in the back, and you know, he had his

660
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,880
spank odds up and he was explaining, like, you know,

661
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,960
how we could tell when a game was about to move.

662
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,639
And I found it interesting. Scott invited me without knowing

663
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,840
the group that this guy was trying to predict was

664
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,599
my group. So I said, I would love to go

665
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,239
to this meeting. Can I get an invite? So me

666
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,320
and one of my partners went, and we've wanted to

667
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,960
see if this guy actually like because you have to

668
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,280
play a lot of cat and mouse. Like let's say

669
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,079
you want to get down on a game. You can't

670
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:26,519
always bet the same sports book first, because if you

671
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:28,840
bet the same film first first, there's tons of people

672
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,440
just always watching the screen. They'll know, they'll know and

673
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:34,440
then tomorrow when you try to hit that book first,

674
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,039
they'll steal your liquidity elsewhere before you can get it right.

675
00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:43,280
So we wanted to learn. So we went there and

676
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:47,360
our employees were working on the East coast betting and

677
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:50,440
me and my partner were in Vegas watching this guy

678
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:56,079
and the guy missed them all right, and that Scott

679
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,440
was so furious because the guy that wasn't able to

680
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:03,880
catch any of them, you know, And that's basically he

681
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,719
got so mad because he got all and he kept

682
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,960
apologizing to me. He said, sorry for waking you up

683
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,639
and making you come to this, and I kept saying, no, man,

684
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:12,920
it's okay. I'm just glad the guy didn't catch any

685
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:14,760
And then I told him that the group he was

686
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,639
trying to catch ours, which is kind of fun.

687
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 3: And it's been a pleasure talking to you.

688
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,199
Speaker 2: You are you wait? You know what?

689
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,679
Speaker 3: I just I just have a.

690
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 4: Couple of more questions. Maybe one is you mentioned that

691
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,400
you have young kids. What are you uh? What are

692
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,840
you trying to instill in them?

693
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 5: Right?

694
00:39:42,519 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 4: Are you teaching them anything about gambling or how that

695
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:48,280
provides life lessons?

696
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 2: So so I I have a four or five year

697
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,840
old and a seventeen year old. So the seventeen year

698
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,280
old I am teaching him how to play cards, taught

699
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,480
the magic. I tried to teach them how to think probabilistically,

700
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,639
because most people always think like I think, it's either

701
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,280
going to happen or not happen. I am trying to

702
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,599
with my son. I at this moment where I'm not

703
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,960
sure if I want to teach him gambling, because so

704
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:21,760
at first I wasn't going to teach him. But then

705
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,239
you're in Florida. We have hard rock as a monopoly

706
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,920
on gambling, and Hard Rocky playing keeps playing these commercials

707
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:35,239
that keeps playing these commercials. And there's Post Malone, who's

708
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,840
just a rapper. I think he's in the jacuzzi with

709
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,679
his phone and he's making bets and he keeps winning,

710
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,360
and he says, see, so easy, the only thing you

711
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,920
need is a phone being binging I win. So my

712
00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:47,360
son one day says, your job is so easy. You

713
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,039
can even win from a jacuzzi on your phone. So so,

714
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,920
so what I did to him, what I did for him,

715
00:40:57,119 --> 00:40:59,280
I made him a phantom account. I said, okay, you

716
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,519
bet here, you have one hundred dollars better way, and

717
00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:04,639
after you lose it all, you come back and then

718
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,480
I'll teach you how to win. So and the only

719
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:11,119
reason why I did it is because, you know, because

720
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,360
the commercials are like giving a bad you know, like

721
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,159
a bad idea what sports setting is like. But no,

722
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,960
I do plan to teach them some kind of gambling

723
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:25,360
or playing cards or something. I think magic was the

724
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,480
best thing that's ever happened to me. And even if

725
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,599
you don't decide to be a gambler, being around people

726
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,440
like us, it's so good because there's just so many

727
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,440
like opportunities in life that can come out of nowhere,

728
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,639
because because you know so many unique people.

729
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:49,159
Speaker 4: Well and just understanding expected value and and like you said,

730
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:56,039
thinking probabilistically. And yeah, it's such such great value in

731
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:57,199
learning about that.

732
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,679
Speaker 2: Stand made me read that. You probably you guys probably

733
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:01,519
read this book already. But have you guys ever read

734
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:02,800
Fools by Randomness?

735
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 3: Oh?

736
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Stam made me read it, and I was

737
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,000
My mind was blown after I read it. Yeah.

738
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 4: One other question, favorite restaurant in Las Vegas that is

739
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,960
not in a casino.

740
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,599
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a bad question for me because I

741
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,320
normally only eat a casinos. There's an Italian Place in

742
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:32,440
downtown Vegas, Chicago, Joe's Chicago, Joe's.

743
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

744
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 2: But normally, to be honest, when I go to Vegas,

745
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,559
I just stay in the casino. Is that Is that

746
00:42:39,639 --> 00:42:43,360
a bad move to eat in the casinos? Yeah, not

747
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:46,480
if you're camped. But I mean, there's just there's so

748
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:49,880
many great restaurants in Vegas that are not in the casinos.

749
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,880
That and I'm always looking for new places. Got them? Yeah,

750
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:58,719
usually uh usually it's always so hot there, so I'm

751
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,400
just like, I'm I mean here, you know, but I

752
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,880
can definitely see like eating ours is eating us side.

753
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,880
It's not nearly as expensive as eating the casinos, right

754
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,800
can be? Oh no, yeah, not not even but cool,

755
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,639
all right, Bob, take us out, Thank you, Anthony, thank

756
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,840
you Richard. Go out and hit lots of royal flushes, everybody.

757
00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:26,079
Speaker 3: Good day.

758
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: Free audio post production by alphonic dot Com