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Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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head on over to the Peak Kinyonas show dot com.

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There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

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Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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about this, even though I think on the last ad

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I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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audio file. So head on over to the pekan Yonashow

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dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can

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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.

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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on condinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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you enough.

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: The pekan Yonashow dot com. Everything's there. I want to

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welcome everyone back to the Peking Yona show Dexter Whites

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with me.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing, Dexter?

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Speaker 3: Hey, Pete, how's it going? Thanks for having me on.

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Appreciate it, yep, first time.

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Speaker 1: Please tell everybody a little bit about yourself what you're

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willing to share.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I'm I'm a co conspirator with Tom Luongo and

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got some guns. Pretty much the editor over there of

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our monthly newsletter. Tom and I've been doing that for

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about eight years now. You may know Tom from other

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things that he does out there on the internet, but

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that's pretty much my focus is there. And I'm frequent

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podcast co host over there as well, So that's my

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online kind of deal.

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Speaker 1: So we got the I guess this is as close

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to the three day rule as we're going to get.

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That you let something happen and then you wait three days.

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This is probably what we're at. Forty eight hours, maybe

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a little less than forty eight hours.

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Speaker 3: Oh did something happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Apparently it's so funny because when something like this happens,

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you immediately lee it's the biggest thing that's happened in

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you know, the history of mankind. And then as you

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get the further away from it, you start to realize, well,

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you know, there's a lot more to this, and there's

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there's a distinct possibility it's absolutely a nothing burger, and

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it could be like Syria, you know, Sarka April twenty seventeen,

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where you're bombing an empty, empty air base, which upsets

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the people who want this to be the biggest thing ever.

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And if you say, well, you know, it's probably not,

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it's like, well, you're coping because because you do's. But

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I mean, we don't even know what I'm talking about yet.

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Obviously I'm talking about I think, did John Jones John

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Jones retired from MMA.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking about obviously the bombing of the FODO

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and other nuclear complexes by the United States. But I

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think the key for I don't know, and we don't

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know much, and yet we live in a media culture

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that demands an immediate opinion despite an absence of facts.

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And I feel that the most notable thing that blew

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up this weekend was that model. Because a lot of people,

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you know, a lot of talking heads and reflexive commentators

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out there are I mean, it feels like they push

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them to their breaking point, some of which because they

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had a totally unrealistic view of Trump in my view,

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about him having like some sort of core principles. And

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I'm not saying, you know, he's unprincipled. I'm saying Trump

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doesn't operate as a person who gets up every day

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and says, how can I manifest my principles? If you

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think that's what Donald Trump does, you've misread the man.

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And you know, I'm not saying that to be like

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judgmental or pejorative. I'm saying, literally, that's who this guy is.

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We've known him for a long time as the guy

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on the Apprentice, Like, let that be your guide, you know.

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But so many people have I think, tied up into

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the Trump and Maga worldview, an unsustainable illusion that just

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got exploded, and now their brains are melting, you know,

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whether it's Candice Owens or Tucker Carlson or you know,

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Dave Smith or whoever. I mean, they just they can't

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deal with what they've you know, this is a cognitive

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dissonance that's just too great for them. I'm not sure

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why that is, honestly, But.

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Speaker 1: Is it not ideology? Is it not having an ideology?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: A rigid, a rigid ideology. I mean, you know, you're

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I think you're you're you're a Christian. I'm a Christian,

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I'm a Catholic. I think you're Orthodox. We have an ideology.

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It's personal, but yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: I think in the case of sort of like I

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think we have to separate this, Like there's a difference

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between like neo cons and Bill Crystal and you know,

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people who are reacting to something being done that they

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kind of like by someone they really don't like and

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that I think I'd like to take later. But like

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the the people in media who are struggling for an

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appropriate reaction. I don't know. I don't know that it's

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ideology driven. I think it's it's driven by the fact

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that the entirety of their media presence in terms of

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the careers they've taped out for themselves, like Cassandra or sorry,

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Candice Owens. You know, she was part of a bigger

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thing and then I think, you know, it was pretty public,

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but parts of it aren't clear to anybody. But I'm

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pretty sure she had a blow up with Ben Shapiro

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and seems like she got fired. Tucker definitely got fired.

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You know, these people have left institutions that were more

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or less I mean, you could you could argue that

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both Fox and Shapiro's you know, version of you know

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what they do over there is are both kind of

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neo con centered enterprises, right, Fox more than Shapiro's. But

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you know, these are people who now Tucker and Candice

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have built their own thing, and they're kind of stuck

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on their business plan. I don't think they can they

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can pivot quickly enough when when Trump just starts doing

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real stuff, because they've they've sort of they've they've bet

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a lot on this kind of false archetype. I I

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you note that I don't. I'm not willing to believe

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both of them are standing on their you know, piece

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before all principles because I just don't believe it. Maybe

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that's too mean of me, but like, I just don't

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think that it's I don't buy Tucker as a pacifist.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think Tucker, I don't know whether he's playing

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pacifist or whether he's just playing non interventionist. You know,

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some of us are You don't have base adopted the ideology,

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not the ideology, but the thought that you know, you

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you'll reward your friends and you punish your enemies. So yeah,

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I think Tucker is Tucker may try to be doing

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maybe doing his what he thinks is best to try

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to prevent a friend, which I think he and Donald

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Trump are friends, or at least you know, good acquaintances,

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from doing something that you know will tarnish what he believes.

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You know what Trump said, his legacy is going to

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be no new wars, no new this, you know, and

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this isn't a war yet, but could it be, you know,

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I don't know, I'm reading.

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Speaker 3: Well, these kinds of actions are certainly could be correlated

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with escalations that turn into things we called war for sure.

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I mean, let's kind of instead of going at this

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from like the analytical analytical dissection route, like, let's just

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talk a little bit about this sort of the things

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we all kind of agree on and that some people

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are having a really hard time parsing right now. I

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think we all agree that the Iraq War.

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Speaker 2: Was a disaster.

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Speaker 3: There happens to be a lot of reasons, and I'm

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talking about like obviously the second one, why you know,

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what was done under schwartzkop was different than what came later,

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And there's a ton of detail but in the end

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we're all left with way too many American lives were

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lost for nothing. I think a lot of times there's

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conflation between the two times we went into Iraq, and

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I don't really think the conflation is justified. For the

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first Gulf War, where we pretty much had an objective,

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we achieved it, we got out, and you know, I

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would argue that we would have been much better taking

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Saddam out then because weirdly, the Iranians wouldn't have become

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the oppositional force they became in the second incursion because

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at the time they were still really really fresh in

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their minds, like fight the Iran Iraq War. And I

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think we were like, hey, we're going to wax Saddam.

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They'd be like, you know, we can deal with that,

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we can dig it. I think that would have been

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the Iranian response and you know, ninety two or whatever.

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But you know, Saddam gave us a you know, a

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reason to do that. You know, he invaded Kuwait like

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there were facts on the ground. So I think the

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libertarian and maga right infusion of libertarian anti war values,

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you know, it all comes from a place that is

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pretty decent, which is that war and then what we

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did in Afghanistan despite our righteous you know, cause, in

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my view, like after nine to eleven, I think there

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was a righteous and moral, just war reason going to

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Afghanistan and kill some folks were you know, it's not nuance,

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it's war. They hit us, we hit them. Now it

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turned into something equally pointless. So opposing pointless wars is

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not something I disagree with, but I'm also not willing

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to turn it into a worldview that ignores the fact

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that there's no reason for the level of enrichment at all.

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And I'm not I know a lot about nuclear issues

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and nuclear medicine, and like, I really understand these things,

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and I'm telling you we're at a point where they

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might not have a warhead, but there's absolutely no reason

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for this level of enrichment, both to this purity and

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in this volume. It is not to give everyone in

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fucking Iran a renal scan. Okay, that's not what this

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is for. These centers were not for that. And I'm

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not willing to say, oh, well, because I have this principle,

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you know, no wars, that this we should ignore. You know,

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what's literally a serious moment in history now that also,

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you know, there's a there's a further complication, and that

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we didn't make this decision. This decision was made for

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us by a third party nation. And if you believe that,

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you know, I happen to think there's probably a pretty

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decent argument to be made that this has been correlated,

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I'm sorry, has been coordinated for a long time between

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all the elements in Israel and the United States.

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Speaker 1: Now, and there's a Brookings there's a Brookings book from

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twenty nineteen that lays us all out.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's no question there's a longer idea of regime

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change in Iran that precedes even that. I just mean

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post October seventh. I think Israel in the United States,

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even during the Biden administration, we're we're at least checking

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in enough to I don't think there have been any surprises.

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That's the way I would put it, which is different

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than saying that we co planned it right. And again,

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I'm not some guy with a secular security clearance who's

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breaking it. I'm just some guy who reads stuff. You know,

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you salt to taste. But that's my take on it.

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And the other thing I got kind of raked over

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the Coals for in a recent Twitter Space is a

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little that you were on in the beginning, and I

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think you got knocked off too. Then I got knocked off,

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and it's you know, because Twitter space is great tech,

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but you know a lot of people just really couldn't

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handle the idea that, you know, just the take I

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had that it was purely motivated by revenge by Israel.

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And I'm more or less okay with that, Like after

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October seventh, if I was Israel, I I'm just going

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to kill all these people. We killed Hamas, we killed

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his balla, now we're going to kill Iran. And I

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think that's like an ignored analysis. I mean, Halsey pushed

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back on that, and so did a lot of people online.

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But I still think it's pretty explanatory.

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Speaker 1: Well, it can be two things too, It could be

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three things. It could be that they've been planning to

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do this for a long time and then they got

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their excuse and they believed that because they were the

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victim once again, that the world would go along with

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whatever they do. Unfortunately, instead of you know, blaming it

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on Iran and saying, well, Iran's the one who is

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financing Hamas and directing Hamas. Let's take that, Let's quickly

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take Hamas out, flood the tunnels with concrete, do whatever

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you need to.

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Speaker 2: Do, go in there. Boom, boom boom.

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Speaker 1: They decided to basically turn a section of the world unlivable.

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They just happened to be next door to them, which

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seems insane to normal people. And then you know they wait,

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you know, two years almost, you know, almost two years,

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and they're like okay, yeah, you know, a year and

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a half and they're like, okay, now, you know, let's

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go take care of the people who were destroying all

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this while basically every nation in the world except for

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like five thinks they're absolute monsters.

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Speaker 3: What's your take on last year's missile exchange?

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Speaker 2: That was it was.

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Speaker 3: Predicated by the Israelis hitting the building next to the

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embassy right in Syria or in Lebanon.

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Speaker 2: Was it in Lebanon? I think it was Lebanon.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, so I guess it was arguable. But this

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is one of those nuances where I'm not it's like

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they hit the embassy. Maybe they hit the building next

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to the embassy, but that is what provoked the missile

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exchange between around and Israel. Last year where I think

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they both tested and theatrically so tested each other's you

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know stuff. What is your take on how much of

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that might have been kind of coordinated and like, because

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that part that whole thing. To me, still, I'm not

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sure what I believe happened there. I'm just curious what

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you think.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, I mean I think of I think of

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the reaction to the Solemani assassination. They launched miss Iran

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launches missiles at a US base, and Trump comes right

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out and says they had to save face in many ways,

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what I see now that you know, you're past the

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fog and the anger of why the hell are you

269
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doing this? Why are we involved in this? Why why

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do we care about this? You know, this aircraft carrier

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in the Middle East that you know hates us and

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it is just basically parasitic towards us. This looks like

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the same kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to different people who were talking about how

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these sites had already been hit numerous times, they would

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have had chance to move everything, any kind of research

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they had, they could have moved it elsewhere. That we

279
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basically did the same thing. We went in there. Iran

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probably knew that there were people in the Iranian government

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who knew this was going to happen, and then they

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bombed a couple things and they said, yay, victory, just

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like Syria twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can understand that perspective. The one thing

285
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I will say I don't believe is there's there's no

286
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moving forth centrifuges in like three days. That didn't. That

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just not a thing. And I think it's notable that

288
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a Ran did not before the strikes on Saturday night, specifically,

289
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did not anywhere that I saw say oh, well, we've

290
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already moved everything out, Because if you were trying to

291
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protect your facility, but you had already taken the steps

292
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to protect your facility, you might leak that, you know,

293
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to confound your enemy. Because Forda is a pretty decent

294
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chunk of change. Man, that's a nice facility, and if

295
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you had moved it out, I think the move is

296
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you you literally video it, or you invite an inspection

297
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and say look it's empty, screw you, We beat you

298
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it somewhere else, just to taunt. Because when they came

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out after the strike, we oh, we already moved old uranium.

300
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I was like, eh, did you It just seemed like

301
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a big cope to me. You know, it's there's four

302
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thousand centrifuges at Ford.

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Speaker 2: Oh and.

304
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Speaker 3: I think also they're still there, and whether they're damaged

305
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or not, is that's the damage that's that's something I

306
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don't know. But right, well, you we fucked up the

307
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door at least.

308
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well you also have to take into consideration like doctor

310
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Ted Postal, who has been doing videos and writing research

311
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papers on these bombs, who you know, clearly went out

312
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on shows talking about how these bombs aren't going to

313
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do a thing. So, I mean, they can do some damage,

314
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they can do some surface damage, but they already Iran

315
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already has access to the plans and how to structure

316
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and how to build so that you can actually even

317
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deflect the force of bombs like this. So even if

318
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they didn't move four thousand centrifuges, I mean, there's no

319
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I from what I understand, I can't remember who said.

320
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Speaker 2: It. Might have been Ritter talking about.

321
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Speaker 1: How there's eight entrances in foordoh, and like maybe we

322
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got two of them, maybe we got three of them,

323
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but did we get all of them? Where they're entrances

324
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we don't know about. You know, It's it just seems

325
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like it was like this is just theater. It's it's

326
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Trump again dropping bombs and not a lot.

327
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Speaker 2: You know.

328
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Speaker 1: Obviously some damage is going to be done and there'll

329
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probably be some loss of life somewhat, but it just

330
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seems like that whole thing again of mission you know,

331
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not mission accomplished. But hey, you know, we this is

332
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the greatest action we've ever done, the greatest thing ever

333
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done by the Yeah, it's.

334
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Speaker 3: Just he's only capable of talking how he talks.

335
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know, and he's talking about it

336
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like yeah, he's.

337
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Speaker 2: He talks about it like.

338
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Speaker 1: Some of the like the greatest you know, military triumphs

339
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in the history you know, of the United States and

340
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of America. And it's there's no evidence, you know. I

341
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mean I've already heard from somebody that I know who

342
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knows people on the inside, and they're saying they're detecting

343
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any kind of signature for radiation at all, and we're

344
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seeing anything.

345
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Speaker 3: So I mean, well, there's a lot of there's a

346
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lot of scenarios though where that wouldn't necessarily be notable

347
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because the non enriched. There's got to be a lot

348
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of yellow cake in storage there to feed the react

349
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to feed the centrifuges, and that kind of signature is

350
00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:34,440
not going to that shit. You can't. I mean, this

351
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is very deep. If it had collapsed a tunnel, these

352
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are all very heavy, non gasified. Well, we introduced a

353
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lot of heat so it would gasify the uranium hexafluoride,

354
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which is what the feedstock is for the centrifuge. But

355
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if it didn't find a way out, it didn't find

356
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a way out. I don't think the absence of aerial

357
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,039
radiation detection because there are no fission products, right, It's

358
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just you hit a storage place that contains pretty much

359
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:08,039
only uranium. So if you didn't perfectly gasify it and

360
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,480
liberate it, I can see why it wouldn't get out.

361
00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:14,440
Like a lot of these sniffers are trying to find

362
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other elements, They're definitely trying to find Like our sniffers

363
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,720
are optimized to detecting sub you know, subterranean tests where

364
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:28,279
weird isotopes get out and they are characteristic isotopes of

365
00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:31,039
a fission reaction, and like, oh we found some xenon

366
00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:34,119
one thirty three like we're in concentrations. It shouldn't have

367
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,920
been like that's what those sniffers are for, but an

368
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:42,200
explosive attack. Again, I agree with you that Trump is

369
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,680
always gonna be superlative in his speech, and I don't

370
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,079
know that the destruction to the level he describes, though,

371
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is is required for the mission to be a success.

372
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There's a lot of things going on here, so I

373
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,720
want to act weirdly for me. I sent this thing

374
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to Tom the other day for and I think it

375
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was what he vamped on his morning report. I guess yesterday,

376
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,400
but it's it's Scott Ritter and Scott Ridder said, and

377
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it's someone I never quote for a lot of reasons,

378
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,680
not a fan, but he said. This is why I

379
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,480
said repeatedly that Iran was making a huge mistake posturing

380
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,880
as a nuclear threshold state. There's a lot in that state,

381
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:32,039
and I think posturing as a nuclear threshold state one

382
00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:34,279
of the things when they were trying to, you know,

383
00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:38,640
drive that wedge between Tulsea Gabbard and Trump, people did

384
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,759
not read the text. The text was very clear. There's

385
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:46,160
a big difference between enriched uranium at nuclear weapons grade

386
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,039
and a warhead or a weapon. Right, you can have

387
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,640
three day breakout to weapons grade uranium and you will

388
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,720
not have cast that into two hemispheres and made it

389
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:01,839
with a trigger the subassembly that fits in one of

390
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,640
your missiles. Right, that's a lot of work that hasn't happened,

391
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,759
but there is no reason for enrichment. So you have

392
00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:12,400
to ask yourself, do we really have to wait until

393
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,559
they do the trigger work. And they've done the trigger work,

394
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:19,599
they're not using. That's what the heavy water was reactor

395
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:25,160
was for. There's deuterium tritium use of as trigger materials

396
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,240
in a fission only bomb. Most of the time when

397
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,680
people hear heavy water, they think that's fusion. It can

398
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,400
be used for fusion, but it can also, more importantly

399
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,440
be used for the creation of durable neutron sources for

400
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,319
triggering a fission bomb. They were caught with too much

401
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,440
deuterium like ten years ago, so the idea that they've

402
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:50,000
figured out how to make a trigger is not crazy.

403
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:53,559
So do we really have to wait till they cast

404
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,839
the warheads before we act or do we just say, look,

405
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,759
you guys have sixty percent tons of of yellow cake

406
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,720
and enough weight to spin sixty into ninety and three

407
00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:08,839
days we're just going to act. I think that's a

408
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,400
legitimate thing that everybody's ignoring. They're acting like there was

409
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,119
some disparity between saying, oh, well, there's no evidence they

410
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,799
had a warhead. It's like, dude, there's no other reason

411
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,720
for this. And now let's talk about this from the

412
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:25,559
lens of Ritter's comment. If they're willing to do all

413
00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:29,000
of this just to quote appeer like a breakout state

414
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,839
in order to drive negotiations, first of all, that's a

415
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,319
really dumb bluff. Ridder's right there. But the better question

416
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,920
is who the fuck told them to do that, because

417
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,960
I just I feel like it begs the invitation that

418
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,440
there's another party like advising them, because it's a really

419
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:50,160
odd decision. You know. There's also a much more pragmatic

420
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,119
and simple Okham's razor type conclusion is they were making

421
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:59,400
a ba you know, and I don't like our foreign

422
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,079
policy guided by others, and I don't have to like

423
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,240
it in order to recognize that, you know, sometimes there's

424
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,759
a time for action that isn't perfect. And I feel

425
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,799
that so many people right now can't separate their distrust

426
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:20,319
of Israel from an honest analysis of this scenario like

427
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,119
they won't. They cannot in any way except there might

428
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,720
have been an actual ticking bomb, so to speak. And

429
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,319
I agree we've been lied to before. But one thing

430
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,839
I'll say about the Second Iraq War is they knew

431
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,039
they were lying, right. There was no question about why

432
00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:44,920
they were lying. So it's not like anybody got duped.

433
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:51,160
And that doesn't necessarily make it preclude that they're just

434
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:54,680
lying again. But I think people need to get over

435
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,440
this idea that there's there's some sort of confusion where

436
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,000
the Israelis are tricking us with lies. I'm like, I don't,

437
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:03,359
I don't think that's in the game.

438
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,319
Speaker 1: But well, there was a question you asked earlier that said,

439
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,599
you know, why would they be enriching uranium this much?

440
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,680
You know, why would they be going weapons grade? Well,

441
00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:18,559
I mean this may seem simplistic and I may seem

442
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,480
like a moron, but you know, if I was in

443
00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:25,720
Iran and I was in charge, I wouldn't want to

444
00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:30,400
be bayoneted in the street and sodomized to death, right right,

445
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:37,279
you know. And it really seems that whenever, whenever there

446
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,240
was a threat against them, and it's oh, it seems

447
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,640
like if you want them to enrich uranium, accuse them

448
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,519
of enriching uranium. I mean, I don't know what you

449
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,519
what your opinion is of the JCPOA, but it seemed

450
00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:57,279
like the JCPOA actually kept them in line some sorts.

451
00:26:57,279 --> 00:26:59,880
And really the only time they ramp stuff up is

452
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,960
when people cancel the JCPOA or people talk about regime

453
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,440
change in Iran. And I mean, I don't particularly like

454
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:14,079
the Mullahs. I wish I didn't know Iran existed. There's

455
00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:16,440
no reason I should know Israel or Iran existed. I'm

456
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,279
an American. There's no reason these things should be. They

457
00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:23,559
should be places where I'm like, like exotic places where

458
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:25,559
I'd be like, oh, maybe I'd like to travel there

459
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:27,440
one day and see what that what that culture is

460
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,079
all about. Persia seems to be like an ancient culture.

461
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:36,160
But no, no, that's that's not it. Maybe that's it's

462
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,799
as simple as that. Maybe it's as simple as I

463
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:41,720
don't want to be bayoneted in the ass in the

464
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:46,359
street until I die by people that you know I've been.

465
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,960
You know, maybe I haven't been the best leader, but

466
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:56,279
I haven't been you know, I haven't been the worst leader.

467
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:00,759
Speaker 3: The problem with I mean, I I think there's a

468
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:03,640
lot of good reasoning there as far as we're trying

469
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,839
to guess the motivations for actions that we have an

470
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,359
incomplete sense of. I agree that Israel is willing to

471
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,079
fabricate things in order to advance the agenda they want,

472
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,960
which the agenda they want in the Middle East is

473
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,880
that no one can challenge them, I think is a

474
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:23,559
fair way.

475
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:23,799
Speaker 2: To say it.

476
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,319
Speaker 3: Some of this is neurotic projection and some of it

477
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,400
is based in pretty smart reality. Like it's both in

478
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,359
my view and I don't know. I think there's been

479
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,319
a lot of times, both before and after the JCPOA

480
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,920
that Iran could have avoided. I mean, here's the question, like,

481
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:49,559
what was the motivation for Iran, both pre and post

482
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:55,279
JCPOA to put as many missiles into Syria into Lebanon.

483
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:59,079
You know, it's not like their hands are clean. If

484
00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:01,279
their hands were clean, and I think your argument would

485
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:02,200
be pretty much her.

486
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,279
Speaker 2: Hands.

487
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,079
Speaker 3: I don't right, I'm talking about the moving of ASSD

488
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:09,519
For what purpose is the moving of this level of

489
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:13,000
missiles into you know, whether Haballa turned out to not

490
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:16,759
be very effective, they were definitely armed, And there comes

491
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:18,279
a point where you have to think back to the

492
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,200
revolution when the first thing Iran did was move into

493
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,519
that neck of the woods. They created things that didn't

494
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:29,640
exist before, like his balla and they they came after

495
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,359
you know, they stepped into the middle of a civil

496
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,759
war in Lebanon that they helped create. They you know,

497
00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:42,079
definitely murdered two hundred and forty one American Marines. They

498
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:46,720
murdered thousands of US servicemen in Iraq with force penetrators.

499
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,240
So you know, there comes a point where you got

500
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:51,599
to just say, look, I agree, everybody's hands are dirty,

501
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,359
But then the near term I think matters more for

502
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:01,240
what just happened than than than the whole you know,

503
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,680
we don't have to give the Turks Vienna back. You know,

504
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:05,920
there comes a point where everybody's just like, look, everyone

505
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:11,519
keeps making choices, and they made choices very recently to

506
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:15,839
do things that led to where we are. I do

507
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,359
I am confused, honestly about how much of the j

508
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:23,119
cpo A I believe, given who was involved in it

509
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:27,039
and who got it signed and when the there was

510
00:30:27,079 --> 00:30:30,839
a date when the I A E A excuse me

511
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,920
came back with a level and enrichment test that was

512
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:37,440
very discordant. I think the j cpo A was still

513
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,799
in force, and everyone's like, oh no, no, no, that's it

514
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:43,960
was a mistake. It wasn't really that hot, and I

515
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,000
feel like they ran was just not you know, they

516
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,640
had they had places that the j cpo A didn't

517
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,400
apply to, So I'm not sure I believe they were.

518
00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:55,440
They were spun down, so to speak.

519
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I guess what I'm not getting is

520
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:04,480
the fact that you're questioning Iran's motives for doing certain things,

521
00:31:04,759 --> 00:31:09,839
as if every motive they're doing is evil, but evil

522
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,440
to who evil? To whom is it? I mean, what Israel?

523
00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: Well, I'll put it.

524
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I literally the only reason I don't want

525
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,880
to see Israel blown off the map, Like, the only

526
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,160
reason I don't want to see Israel removed from existence

527
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,279
is because then those people have to go somewhere, and

528
00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:29,440
they're probably going to come here.

529
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,359
Speaker 3: Well, I think that avoiding nuclear war is probably a

530
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,880
global good for all reasons, because.

531
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,279
Speaker 1: Well, there's only one there's only one country we've mentioned

532
00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:46,519
that didn't sign a non proliferation treaty.

533
00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 3: What I was just going to say, actually is that

534
00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:55,640
there's one part of the Ridder comment that, and I

535
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,400
don't know if you've listened to Tom over the last

536
00:31:57,759 --> 00:31:59,799
couple of days, but Tom's kind of staking out some

537
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:04,119
territory that I'm not sure I agree with. But it

538
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,359
was kind of on that that spaces the other night.

539
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: But but.

540
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: The question is to what end, like, so let's talk.

541
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:15,400
There's there's certain things I'm not It's not questionable whether

542
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:19,839
Iran's uranium enrichment was for any purpose other than weapons.

543
00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:22,559
That's what it was for. So then the question becomes

544
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,599
is is somebody tell them, Hey, if you enrich up

545
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:28,480
to this point where you have breakout and it's undeniable,

546
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:31,680
then we're going to use that to force Israel, Like,

547
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:33,240
then we're going to let you know, we're going to

548
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:35,079
work a deal where you give up yours and Israel

549
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:39,000
gives up theirs. That's a pipe dream in my view.

550
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:42,319
But I'm not saying somebody didn't tell Iran that because

551
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:45,200
other than that, if Iran wasn't on the midst of

552
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,960
creating ten nuclear warheads, let's let's go all the way

553
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,440
to warheads. Let's assume they figured out the trigger and

554
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,359
the miniatures. Miniaturization problems not very intense. The trigger problem

555
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,920
is pretty pretty intense, Like that's a lot of work,

556
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:03,960
but Iran has a lot of talent. So the idea

557
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:07,319
that when they moved all the stuff out of Iraq

558
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:12,920
ar a k facility and they had a research reactor

559
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,000
there or whatever.

560
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:15,759
Speaker 2: Or is it is?

561
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:20,119
Speaker 3: It is I thing to Ton's was the the one

562
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:22,960
on the coast? Which one is on the coast? But

563
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:25,720
it doesn't matter, Like I think we should assume they

564
00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:31,000
probably have a workable trigger solution if they were just

565
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:33,519
going to one day say hey, we have we have nukes,

566
00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:35,079
we really have them, and we're going to do an

567
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:38,039
underground test. Boom, Now we did it. Now let's not

568
00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:41,960
fuck around and let's let's all talk. Okay. But I

569
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,319
don't see the I, as an American, do not view

570
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:51,599
that as incredibly destabilizing. I don't see that as a

571
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,119
threat only to Israel. I see that as a major

572
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,119
problem given Iran's history with US, that we would want

573
00:33:57,119 --> 00:34:01,359
to act independently to stop. I really do. Now you

574
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,960
might not. You might think it's uh, it's like Pakistan

575
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,759
or North Korea. I think Iran is a little bit

576
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:10,800
in a different category because not only have they been

577
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:17,440
willing to engage us with proxies. They they've done it

578
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,039
as it's it's pretty much the entirety of the of

579
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:21,519
the ideology of their state.

580
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: I also, yeah, I mean that's my tales.

581
00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 3: Again.

582
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm but I'm also one of those people who

583
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,519
is like, sure, if I think that a country is

584
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:38,280
a threat, I don't care if I like them or not.

585
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,159
You know, we should take care of them, you know,

586
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,400
we should engage them. I have a problem doing that

587
00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:47,840
with a government that I don't trust, that is owned

588
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,039
by by interests that that I don't believe aligned with mine.

589
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,079
But let's say let's say you know, my my friends

590
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:59,039
were running the government. I would have no problem if

591
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:02,400
I thought Iran was a right. But I also think

592
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,320
that I also have to consider the history of why.

593
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:09,159
You know, people are like, oh, you know, they the

594
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:13,079
whole meme of well, what are the country, uh chance

595
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:15,960
death to America, And I'm like, I've had dogs that

596
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:18,559
like barked at me for fifteen years and never bit me,

597
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:22,800
you know, And then you know, and that's I know,

598
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,920
that's quaint on my part. But also it's like, Okay,

599
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,000
why why would they scream that? Is it because we

600
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,840
wear blue jeans, or do we over or do these

601
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,559
people have a long do these people live historically? And think, Oh,

602
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:45,199
in nineteen fifty three, you know, the CIA overthrew overthrow

603
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,000
our duly elected leader. Oh and even before that generations

604
00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:51,920
and gave them to the royal and gave them.

605
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:56,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the third generation of Polavis inserted by the

606
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:59,880
West is what the current plan is. So yes, I mean,

607
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,679
and what I mean by that is you understand that

608
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,679
like the grandfather, the father and the son are all

609
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,920
the sha pu Lavi right nineteen twenty, nineteen fifty five

610
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:15,840
and potentially twenty twenty five, and that's what the alternate

611
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:19,840
to the Malas are. Now move it up the geos

612
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:25,000
strategy ladder a bit. And you know, don't forget before

613
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,199
why did Iran have F Fourteen's why they were the

614
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,280
only country that had cutting edge Those were our best

615
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,360
fighters in the seventies.

616
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: And Israelis were passing Israelis were passing weapons to Iran

617
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,039
as in the nineteen eighties, probably into the nineteen seventies.

618
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 3: There was a big part of where Iran contra happened

619
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,400
was through you know, at the time, Israel was much

620
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,679
more concerned about Saddam than Iran, and so was Iran.

621
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,480
Don't forget this is the thing people always leave out

622
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,639
of that analysis is that Iran was scared shitless of Saddam,

623
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,920
which was not without merit. And you know, I'm not

624
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,679
saying it's all strange bedfellows stuff, but you know, loyalties

625
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,920
change for sure, and concerns. And I also will say

626
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,840
that that mission that people are saying was all just

627
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:31,079
a stunt, as if we called Iran and said, hey,

628
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:34,840
we're going to blow up these empty buildings. I think

629
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,760
it was a little it was more of a display

630
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,079
of I mean, that wasn't a six plane mission, right,

631
00:37:41,079 --> 00:37:43,360
They said one hundred and twenty five planes were involved,

632
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,159
So what that really means is there were probably ten

633
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,480
F twenty two's and like another twelve F thirty five's

634
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:54,480
in tow plowing the road. Because B twos aren't very fast,

635
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,760
and all of the planes that the F thirty five,

636
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,840
the F twenty two, and the B two, i'll have

637
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:03,760
the ability to avoid, you know, they have similar stealth capabilities,

638
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,880
but the B two has no speed, so we definitely

639
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,599
put a fighter escort in there. We pulled off that

640
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,440
combined arms operation with B twos allegedly flying out of

641
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,440
the US, but we had more B twos in Diego, Garcia,

642
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,960
and then we also had decoy B twos in the

643
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,360
air flying in America. So there was a lot of

644
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,559
shit going on for misdirection purposes. And I assume the

645
00:38:27,639 --> 00:38:30,960
F twenty twos took off from Saudi because they had

646
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,719
been there, and then F thirty five's are kind of everywhere.

647
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:37,000
We just have a lot of those in the in

648
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:44,480
the region. So this is also a display of Again

649
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:47,400
I'm coming down on the side that the Iranians did

650
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,119
not know what was happening. Yeah, you're free to disagree,

651
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,760
but I think that this is a demonstration to Russia

652
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,880
and China of certain capabilities that you know, the S

653
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,800
four hundred and all its alleged superpowers can't stop. And

654
00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:09,440
ultimately an Iran being neutralized short or long term, brought

655
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,679
into the Western sphere of influence is a mega move

656
00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:17,559
in doing the only thing the United States needs to

657
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:20,239
be doing right now, and that's checking China's rise. If

658
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,199
we can control the energy supplies to China and honestly

659
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,840
also to India by bringing I Ran under our direct control,

660
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:36,159
that's a huge strategic win and ultimately maybe driving more

661
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:39,360
of this decision making than anything else. This may be

662
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:43,639
Israel wants X and blah blah blah, but America really

663
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:48,039
wants Z. And we're doing it for another reason because

664
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:55,159
you know, if you were wanting to This also very

665
00:39:55,159 --> 00:39:58,519
provocative to Putin. But at the same time, maybe Trump

666
00:39:58,519 --> 00:40:02,440
has offered him something because Putin's pretty nervous about China.

667
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,719
You know, China is his ally blah blah blah. But

668
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,880
on the long timeline, he's not happy about it. And

669
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,599
I'm not saying Russia is coming back to the West.

670
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:16,000
I don't see that happening, given the reality and given

671
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,639
the fact that Trump has no successor that I can

672
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,880
see that has a great chance of winning. We got

673
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,719
a lot of work to do on vance before you

674
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:30,679
convinced me he can win an election. But that's a

675
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,840
big part of this puzzle, I think is you know,

676
00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:38,280
it's not just about Israel's interests. Israel's interests are very

677
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,320
kind of one dimensional and first layer, like they they

678
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:47,039
can't handle people in their neighborhood who they don't can't dominate.

679
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:53,599
That's a personality disorder and it's a national policy manifestation

680
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,280
of that personality disorder. But I think the US is

681
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:57,880
thinking about a bigger board.

682
00:40:59,079 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: Well that I agree. I do think some of this

683
00:41:02,519 --> 00:41:05,440
has to do with China, not all of it. Like

684
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:07,840
some people who don't want to talk about Israel or

685
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,719
put any blame on Israel. Oh, this is all about

686
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:16,079
China and the Belton Road and whatever. But yeah, I'm just.

687
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 3: Not even a Belton Road. Just energy. I mean, so

688
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:26,400
much of China's energy comes from not just Iran. But listen,

689
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,440
the straight of hoorn Moves is going to be closed

690
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,679
for like an hour, and then Iran will have a navy.

691
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,840
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about on

692
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,039
a much more medium to long timeline. If we control Iran,

693
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:40,480
not even all the way, but enough that we put

694
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:43,119
in some government that wants to have talks with everybody,

695
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,880
we're going to start offering them stuff to slow down.

696
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,000
If all we did was slow down the shipment of

697
00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:54,360
energy to China by thirty percent because we drop so

698
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,360
much money on them, because don't forget, every country we

699
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,679
take over is another place we can we can store

700
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,159
dollars and we can rain dollars on, which you know,

701
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:08,599
helps control global inflation and you know, keep dollar flows.

702
00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:12,280
You know, it's it's all about that at some level,

703
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,320
and maybe not as the prime reason, but also the

704
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,239
side benefit of anytime in other Domino toppels it's like, oh,

705
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,239
yet another cubby hole for dollars. And if we do that,

706
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,079
you know, China has a really hard time sourcing enough

707
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:32,960
energy to continue what they need to do. Whether it's

708
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,159
I mean, because don't forget, there's whole things they don't make.

709
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,719
You know, it was very interesting when the whole rare

710
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:45,559
earth versus not ethylene. But there's a precursor for most plastics.

711
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:52,119
It's that only the US makes, and so we both blinked.

712
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:55,000
But it was interesting. China would have been more affected

713
00:42:55,079 --> 00:42:59,079
because one of the reasons Trump is selling off all

714
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:01,639
the western bl lands is there's a whole bunch of

715
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,840
rare earths out there, and we're going to be rare

716
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,280
earth independent by the time Trump Lee's office.

717
00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I don't I'm not for that. If

718
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,559
you want, if they want that, they can, they can

719
00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:22,920
do a government project. I don't want that in private hands.

720
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,800
I'm I'm way past the libertarian way, past the libertarian

721
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,039
privatize everything.

722
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 3: When I'm just saying, listen, it's a stretch goal. It's

723
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,599
it's it's a negotiation trick. I think. I think what

724
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:37,480
they're going to do is they're going to say they're

725
00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:39,360
going to do all that, and then they're going to

726
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,320
walk it back. But meanwhile, hull Swaths a BLM not

727
00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:46,320
national park. Let's let's you know, most b al Amland

728
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,880
is crap and it's poorly managed and it isn't some

729
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:53,880
nature paradise, and uh, I think you know, it's all

730
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,840
just typical flood the zone ship where they'll they get

731
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,760
what they want by you know, Trump read one book

732
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,039
his entire life. He got it at the Chester Karris

733
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:08,559
Negotiating seminar, and he learned the concept of the ZOPA.

734
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:12,519
And Trump's whole shtick and everything he's ever done, whether

735
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,760
it's real estate development or reality TV, is just design.

736
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,119
Is define an absolutely unreasonable ZOPA zone of potential agreement.

737
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:25,280
He does that by throwing his first spear, his first

738
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,960
price point, into a land of total madness. And the

739
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,840
person on the other side of the tables, like he

740
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,079
just told us he wants a million dollars for this

741
00:44:34,519 --> 00:44:38,239
can of coke, Like is he insane? And meanwhile, you know,

742
00:44:38,519 --> 00:44:40,519
he just looks at him And that's how he does

743
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:44,440
every negotiation. He doesn't start a negotiation with an irrational

744
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,400
zone he create. He defines an irrational literally lunatic zone

745
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,519
to destabilize the people who are negotiating with him and

746
00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:57,000
try to provoke what's called the midpoint fallacy, which is

747
00:44:57,519 --> 00:45:01,119
where people negotiate poorly when they succumbed to the idea

748
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:04,039
of a midpoint being valid. So if we offer a

749
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:07,719
negotiation starting at one hundred units and you counter with twenty,

750
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:12,960
there's this natural you know, vacillation towards sixty is the midpoint, right,

751
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:16,639
and so you think sixty seems like a fair deal.

752
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,079
We could spend three weeks arguing about bullshit and then

753
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:21,760
eventually you're like, I offer you sixty, and you take it,

754
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,440
but you know the reasonable value is thirty. You were

755
00:45:24,519 --> 00:45:26,760
right putting it at twenty, but when I put it

756
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,559
at one hundred, it fucked up all your calculations. That's

757
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:32,840
Trump in everything. If you want to understand this guy

758
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,079
and all the crazy shitty does, it's literally just that

759
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:39,119
it's just negotiating. Seminars that were big in the seventies

760
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,039
in New York City that were in every sky magazine

761
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:43,519
when you flew on an airplane.

762
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a good Uh.

763
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,119
Speaker 1: I had already mentioned the you know, the lands, and

764
00:45:51,159 --> 00:45:53,360
it's like, I'm, you know, I don't want to sound

765
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,360
like a libertarian, because yeah, I think both of us

766
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,440
were libertarians at one point. I try to think back

767
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,840
to why I was one, and I'm I really I

768
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,639
struggle with it. It's like what It's almost like, what

769
00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:14,400
the hell were you thinking? That this isn't existing in reality?

770
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:19,360
You're you're always you're You're always like a backbier, You're

771
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,800
always screaming from the stands and going, you know, saying

772
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,199
neither side is neither side knows how to play the game.

773
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,800
Only I know how to play the game. But you

774
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,440
get out on the ice and you just, uh, you know,

775
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,679
you fall flat on your face.

776
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 2: So I mean not a hard segue, but you know.

777
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:44,519
Speaker 3: No, I mean you ask a question, one of one

778
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,360
question that you can answer for yourself. You know what

779
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,239
point in your life was that when that appealed to you.

780
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,920
But I think the other thing is just the honest

781
00:46:54,199 --> 00:46:58,079
thing about libertarianism is that it confuses a lot of

782
00:46:58,119 --> 00:47:03,320
people by by criticizing things that are that deserve to

783
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,599
be criticized, like Kynesianism or shitty foreign policy or whatever,

784
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,320
and then it lies and says, well, the only valid

785
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,920
criticism of Kynesianism is libertarianism. And people who don't know anything,

786
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,400
who've never studied history or read a book, you know,

787
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,679
might think that's true. They might think, oh, yes, the

788
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,559
entire world is Kyannesian, all these it's all a giant

789
00:47:24,639 --> 00:47:27,599
Kanesian conspiracy, and the only opposition of that are these

790
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:32,960
great pure people over here, you know. So is Austrian

791
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:38,039
economics libertarian or do people in America who were libertarians

792
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:42,679
decide that this one of many anti Ricardo, anti Marx,

793
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:51,280
anti Kynesian later perspectives on economics is clearly libertarian. Was

794
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,199
Do you think Hayek would have been a libertarian had

795
00:47:54,199 --> 00:47:58,519
the LP been in existence? I don't not even close.

796
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:02,079
And the other thing, in my view is that what

797
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,760
the LP and the movement that led to it in

798
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,079
the United States is just so obviously a post trotsky

799
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,480
neutralization program. I think these are the Trotskyites, you know,

800
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:18,159
the neo cons went after the Republican Party, and then

801
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:20,519
some of them went on a special mission to waste

802
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,679
the time and the talent of a whole generation of

803
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,480
young men. And it was mostly young men. And I

804
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,320
think libertarians libertarianism in the US was always meant to

805
00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:34,840
just be a place to absorb and distract and trap

806
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,679
and amber all like the best minds of each generation

807
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,000
by confounding them with bullshit. And you know, people do

808
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:43,679
not like it when I say this, but this is

809
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,679
my honest take. I was attracted to it in college.

810
00:48:48,519 --> 00:48:51,000
I went to some libertarian meetings and then I decided

811
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,719
I would prefer to drink beer and meat girls. Because

812
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,039
when you go to a libertarian meeting in college, you

813
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:58,480
get a pretty quick knowledge of like, oh, there's a

814
00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:03,239
personality type here, and that personality type is looking for

815
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,800
a way to be empowered because it lacks any personal power.

816
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:08,679
And I think if you're ever at a point in

817
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,320
your life where you're just you know, it's just a cult.

818
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,159
It's just the same as any cult. It feeds on

819
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:19,599
a sense of rutlessness and directionlessness, and it then gives

820
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:25,079
a ridiculous pretend philosophy. The thing that made me not

821
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:28,360
a libertarian was just growing up. But the thing that

822
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,639
made me an anti libertarian or a post libertarian, meaning

823
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:35,599
someone who's willing to attack the essence of libertarianism as

824
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,079
harmful is just I went down the rabbit hole. I

825
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:43,039
read their canon, I looked at I put it this way.

826
00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:47,519
I had arguments with enough libertarians who, unlike Tom Luongo,

827
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,079
have not read their books.

828
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: Tom's.

829
00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:54,079
Speaker 3: You know, the fact that Tom still is mostly a

830
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:57,119
libertarian after reading their stuff and being treated by them

831
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:00,440
the way he's been treated is just a miracle or

832
00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:04,719
a testament to being you know, obstinate. But most libertarians

833
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,199
have not read their own supposed canon, and when you

834
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,599
argue with them, they're always.

835
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: Like, well, you have to read this book.

836
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 3: I'm like, do I do I really have to read

837
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,400
some four hundred page book? You couldn't possibly summarize what

838
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,400
it is you believe and put it in a fucking argument.

839
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,800
You can't do that. What kind of acolyte of anything

840
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:28,280
can at least argue the fucking premises. But libertarian after

841
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,679
libertarian is always like, well, you haven't read Rothbard. And

842
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,880
my answer to you is, none of you fucking people

843
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,440
have read Rothbard. None of you know what any of

844
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,280
it means, because it's all just negation. It's all like

845
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,360
I'm perfect. I'm in the I don't kick puppies club. Wow,

846
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:47,840
what a great club that is, you know, like, oh,

847
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,480
you don't kick puppies, You're such a good person. The

848
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,960
world is full of people who kick puppies. And then

849
00:50:54,039 --> 00:50:58,639
here you are. You don't You're so cool. And that's like,

850
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:04,079
that's the level of personal fulfillment these people want. And

851
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,400
their intellectual weakness is the same thing, because they're always

852
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:11,119
they always they tell you, oh, well, I beat you

853
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,679
in the argument. I'm like, we didn't have an argument.

854
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,719
You don't have any premises. Oh I debated you. You

855
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,719
didn't debate me. You read a fucking Wikipedia article.

856
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 2: Like it's like, do.

857
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: You really think you're arguing? And and it all comes

858
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,400
down to the fact that they don't. They don't know

859
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,760
what practice is in Marxism and they don't know what

860
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,559
praxeology is in Austrianism. Right, They just they just they

861
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:37,159
just don't. And I'm not saying none of them do.

862
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:39,840
I'm sure the bow tie wearers in Auburn, Alabama do.

863
00:51:40,039 --> 00:51:43,599
But give me a break, Like, these people are useless.

864
00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:48,360
They've never accomplished anything in American politics. You know, maybe

865
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,239
they bought some buildings in Alabama, but whatever, congrats.

866
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: Well, I think the thing that really started to turn

867
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,840
me off to it was, well, there's a couple of things. One,

868
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,440
it turns out not all of them, but a ship

869
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:09,920
ton of them are atheists who are looking to looking

870
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,199
for a moralistic framework.

871
00:52:13,199 --> 00:52:14,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with that.

872
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: And somehow there it's private property and the non aggression

873
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,119
principle is their framework.

874
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: Also, the.

875
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: It always seems like anything that they push that they

876
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,639
can say, oh, look we were the first people to

877
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:40,599
champion gay marriage or legalize drug use, and it's like, okay,

878
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:46,000
how's that worked out? How what is Colorado like now?

879
00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:48,480
Who wants to go to Denver? Who wants to spend

880
00:52:48,519 --> 00:52:52,800
any time in Denver? Who you know, who wants to

881
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,519
who wants to argue that the United States has become

882
00:52:56,559 --> 00:52:59,840
a really moral place and it's so much, so much

883
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:06,599
more peaceful and so much more cohesive because of gay marriage.

884
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:12,440
Because I mean basically, any anything, any win that they

885
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,400
want to they want to point out, is something that

886
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,480
you could look to and go what is that? How

887
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,760
does that help the populace?

888
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,199
Speaker 3: It's an artificial version of I mean, this is exactly

889
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,440
like what the left hard left has done with the

890
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,519
Civil Rights Act. Right, it's the creation of a fake

891
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:34,639
tyranny and saying, oh, look, we freed the people from

892
00:53:34,639 --> 00:53:37,119
the tyranny, to let my people go right, and then

893
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:38,760
the next thing and the next thing. But none of

894
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,519
these are actually maligned groups who have suffered injustice. All

895
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:48,960
they are is more pillars of consistency and stability in society.

896
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,440
And this is where the Trotsky trick really is revealed,

897
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:56,840
because they're just another lane, another channel in the Marxist

898
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:02,920
destruction of the non mark West. It's not about left

899
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,320
versus right. It's about destroying family. It's about destroying the

900
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,039
concept of nation, and it's about deracinating all the members

901
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:14,199
of said nation so that they have no local connections.

902
00:54:14,519 --> 00:54:17,960
Because that's when you know when some asshole moves into

903
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,239
your town, suddenly gets on the city commission and like

904
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,960
brings in developers from another state, and you're like, wait,

905
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,400
I've lived here with twenty five years. That's the rub Man.

906
00:54:28,519 --> 00:54:31,639
That's how they're ruining this country. And the Libertarians are

907
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:35,599
just pawns in this whole shit show. And the other

908
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:38,039
thing is I think it's worth noting I don't know

909
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:41,519
how much I want to dive into it. But one

910
00:54:41,519 --> 00:54:44,119
of the main things that drove me out of libertarianism

911
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:48,119
very early was when I perceived that left libertarianism and

912
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,519
right libertarianism we're both in this bucket together, and somehow

913
00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:54,800
these morons couldn't look at each other and be like, yeah,

914
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,719
we're not like each other. Oh we all have the

915
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,519
same brand name. And I was like, what is wrong

916
00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:03,400
with you? Like, I think there's probably a minority, but

917
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:07,199
a decent minority of libertarians who are not atheist, and

918
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,519
I don't think politics needs to have a religious underpinning,

919
00:55:10,599 --> 00:55:15,920
just as an aside, but inside libertarianism the conflict between

920
00:55:16,119 --> 00:55:20,639
the conclusions drawn by mostly left libertarian atheists and what

921
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,119
the rest of the party who you know, And there

922
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:25,800
was all this LP civil warship, which I don't care about,

923
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,039
but there's a very dramatic problem when a bunch of

924
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:33,280
people who are just like we're libertarians can't look at

925
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,039
what they're talking about and say, dude, we have an

926
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:39,800
intractable division here. This isn't a party, this isn't even

927
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,480
a group of people who are the same type of people,

928
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:46,000
And that to mean just more and more made me

929
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:48,679
think this is just a cult and a scam, and

930
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,920
it's meant to waste everybody's time because it's really there

931
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,519
just serving another tranch of the destroy you know, America,

932
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:59,840
destroy the West, and I just say it, destroy the

933
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:03,880
on Marxist West. Plenty of the West is on their team.

934
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,000
But that's the way I look at everything they do,

935
00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:10,320
and that includes the absence of achievement. You know, you

936
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,199
can you can accomplish a lot by accomplishing nothing because

937
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,000
you just brought everyone who could have accomplished something else

938
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:17,760
down with you.

939
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's that's another thing that libertarianism seems to be.

940
00:56:24,679 --> 00:56:27,920
It seems to be a sponge.

941
00:56:28,159 --> 00:56:31,199
Speaker 2: For high IQ, for high IQ.

942
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: Young men, to pull them away from anything that would

943
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:39,280
have anything to do with real politique or exactly or

944
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,960
you know, especially at the local level.

945
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:43,159
Speaker 3: You know.

946
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 2: And I think that.

947
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:48,599
Speaker 1: The thing that got me out was in twenty twenty one,

948
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,719
probably like August or September, there was this they were

949
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,800
looking to pass this thing. There were companies, there are

950
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:03,239
private companies quote unquote private companies in Florida, like supermarkets

951
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:04,679
that were like, Okay, you're not gonna be able to

952
00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:05,159
come in here.

953
00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:06,639
Speaker 2: And shop unless you have a vaccine.

954
00:57:06,679 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: Passport, and I remember DeSantis going, yeah, that's not going

955
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,039
to happen. You're not going to I'm going to step in.

956
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:19,519
And libertarians were defending this. They were defending like the

957
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:22,199
the corporations, the supermarkets.

958
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 2: You know.

959
00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: One of the funniest things you'll see over the last few,

960
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,079
like over the last five years, is a lot of

961
00:57:30,159 --> 00:57:34,519
libertarians have gotten away from defending corporations. I mean there

962
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:39,679
are still some I mean complete lunatic retard spurgeye autists

963
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:44,039
who want to talk about argumentation, ethics and things that

964
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:48,760
don't exist, that will still defend corporations and whatever they

965
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,480
want to do because it's private company, bro, and they

966
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,480
can do whatever they want. But I mean that was

967
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:56,280
like my final straw was I'm watching these people defend

968
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,719
these companies and be like, no, you can't buy food.

969
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:01,719
They're like, no, no, it's up to a company whether

970
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,559
whether a human being can buy food. Oh and that politician,

971
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,039
that politician has no should have no say in this right.

972
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 3: And the libertarian will always tell you, well, I already

973
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,880
won that argument when I said nap five times. It's like, well, yeah,

974
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,519
but you didn't they believe that by reciting magic words

975
00:58:19,679 --> 00:58:23,079
that they've won an argument, and they don't believe in

976
00:58:23,119 --> 00:58:27,159
public policy. They don't believe that there's a complexity one

977
00:58:27,199 --> 00:58:30,039
when you don't believe in the state a priori, and

978
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:34,079
then you believe in corporate power a priori and then

979
00:58:34,119 --> 00:58:36,760
you say, oh, well, nobody can argue that the state

980
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:42,639
can control corporations from violating public policy because I said, nap,

981
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:47,119
that's not debate, that is not a syllogism, like that's

982
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,519
just recursion of we're right because we're right, which is

983
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:55,880
actually what's at the core of the libertarian you know ethos.

984
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,199
They don't you know, this is this is the problem

985
00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:03,159
with this whole men act praxeology thing that they've that

986
00:59:03,159 --> 00:59:06,559
I would argue that, you know, this is more right libertarianism.

987
00:59:08,039 --> 00:59:10,840
They've they've brought this into their worldview where they just

988
00:59:11,079 --> 00:59:15,239
don't understand that you can't base the rightness of your

989
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:19,639
worldview on the declaration that you're correct. You have to

990
00:59:19,719 --> 00:59:23,199
prove it, and they just have this rigidity and you know,

991
00:59:23,239 --> 00:59:27,280
I think it's important just psychologically to talk about the

992
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,039
spurgy autistic certain types that are drawn to this. I

993
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:34,599
think half the people who come into you know, libertarianism

994
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,960
do not have a personality disorder or you know, some

995
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,199
sort of other psychic issues. But once you get into

996
00:59:42,239 --> 00:59:45,159
this group, you start deferring to people who do. And

997
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,440
to me, libertarianism is in many ways, you know, impossible

998
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,480
to describe without an analysis of personality disorders because it's

999
00:59:53,519 --> 00:59:56,599
primarily male. It's there's a lot of you know, not

1000
00:59:56,639 --> 01:00:02,519
necessarily diagnosed aspergers, but very asp adjacent levels of rigidity

1001
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,679
within the community who calls themselves libertarians. And this is

1002
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,960
one of the reasons why that group of people acting

1003
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,400
together cannot get out of their own way, because they

1004
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,679
spend all their time just debating minutia. And don't think

1005
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:23,679
that that's an impossible aggregation of individuals. To think about

1006
01:00:23,719 --> 01:00:28,119
bringing together for that purpose and bring as many people

1007
01:00:28,199 --> 01:00:31,519
towards that core as possible. That's what a good Trotskyite

1008
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:35,920
designer would do. I mean, people underestimate how much deviousness

1009
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:41,199
there is in this world. And it's hard enough to

1010
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,519
debate in groups. It's hard enough to you know, mass

1011
01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:48,800
communication is a difficult task just because of the nature

1012
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,159
of communication between individuals versus what it is in a crowd.

1013
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,880
And all of these cults, you know, the Antifa, all

1014
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:03,519
these things are managed. People who aren't declaring their their

1015
01:01:03,559 --> 01:01:06,320
management so.

1016
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:09,639
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and you over a lot of the

1017
01:01:09,639 --> 01:01:12,519
people that I the people that I started reading after

1018
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:18,039
I left libertarianism, like James Burnham, Carl Schmidt, people who

1019
01:01:18,039 --> 01:01:23,199
are more Oh, believe me, there is a whole group

1020
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,760
of people who are just like that over on this side.

1021
01:01:27,079 --> 01:01:28,679
Speaker 2: But guess what, they.

1022
01:01:28,599 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: All share the same personality type as the spurgy libertarian.

1023
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,920
They just trade and a lot of them are former libertarians.

1024
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:40,199
And all they did was trade one subject to spurg

1025
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,039
out over over another right, and you know, it's like

1026
01:01:44,159 --> 01:01:46,760
and then what's funny is when they get over here,

1027
01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:49,639
that's when you see guess what they do?

1028
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:52,239
Speaker 2: They purity spiral right.

1029
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, well what about you know, like

1030
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,960
real politique and you know, maybe maybe get a couple

1031
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,280
of our friends elect did on a lower level. No, no, no,

1032
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:04,960
we have to take over the national government. If we

1033
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,079
don't take over the national government, they're just going to

1034
01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:12,000
wake o us. You know, you hear this. And but

1035
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:15,039
the thing to come back to libertarianism is one thing

1036
01:02:15,079 --> 01:02:17,119
that I've noticed though, is that a lot of the

1037
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:20,280
people that I'm still friends with who call themselves libertarian

1038
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,280
libertarians over the past few years. You know, five or

1039
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,760
six years ago, ten years ago, they may have been

1040
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,400
talking about like the ins and outs of this and

1041
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:37,679
that and every little you know, every dorky book that

1042
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,280
Walter Block wrote or you know, Rothbard wrote and everything,

1043
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:42,880
and I think a lot of them have just gotten

1044
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,400
to the point where it's, oh, this is about private property.

1045
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:50,239
And because that's where it's like, Okay, we can't deal

1046
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,840
with the We want to leave the left libertarians behind

1047
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,599
because they're nuts and they're the ones talking about what

1048
01:02:55,639 --> 01:02:57,800
we used to talk about and going crazy with it.

1049
01:02:58,519 --> 01:03:01,239
There's a bunch of spergs on the right libertarian side.

1050
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,679
So we're just going to talk about private property, to

1051
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:09,039
which I ask, okay, prove to me. Proved to me

1052
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:12,960
private property is is the right way? Prove to me that,

1053
01:03:13,159 --> 01:03:18,280
like you, what is your whole basis for private property?

1054
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,000
Where is this coming from? Is it coming from nature?

1055
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,480
Is it coming from God? Who's who's this coming from?

1056
01:03:24,559 --> 01:03:27,360
Because if you're not willing to have the debate of it,

1057
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,760
you know, if you're not willing to have like to

1058
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:36,119
let metaphysics come into this and talk about Okay, you

1059
01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:39,000
say private property is all that matters, that if we

1060
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:41,679
had private property, we'd have a more orderly world. Okay,

1061
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:43,199
prove that to me, right.

1062
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 3: They've also never come up with like and I know

1063
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,119
they've it's been addressed by the more serious one I've

1064
01:03:52,239 --> 01:03:55,039
I've said a lot of things about libertarianism that is

1065
01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:57,920
highly pejorative. I recognize that, and it's I'm not saying

1066
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,519
I don't believe what I said, But at the same time,

1067
01:03:59,639 --> 01:04:03,159
I do recognized there been people who are intellectually honest

1068
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:07,239
trying to solve these problems. I don't think they've been influential,

1069
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,920
and again, nobody reads the cannon, so what does it matter.

1070
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,679
But the real problem is, like the tragedy of the comments,

1071
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:18,280
they've never really addressed it in a way that is arguable.

1072
01:04:18,679 --> 01:04:24,320
I've never heard a libertarian address, you know, eminent domain

1073
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,000
with anything other than just a shit fit. I don't

1074
01:04:28,039 --> 01:04:31,000
like eminent domain. But at the same time, I recognize

1075
01:04:31,039 --> 01:04:34,599
that railroads work better when straight, and so do roads,

1076
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:37,519
and so does water piping, and so do a lot

1077
01:04:37,519 --> 01:04:41,119
of things. Where the idea that one day everyone will

1078
01:04:41,159 --> 01:04:44,719
just negotiate that because it's the best idea, It's like, no,

1079
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,920
you're always going to have one asshole who's trying to

1080
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,840
like extract a confiscatory amount of value because he owns

1081
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,960
the piece in the middle and just being able to

1082
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,239
give him market rate before he started changing his price. No, No,

1083
01:04:56,599 --> 01:04:59,320
these lots are worth three hundred thousand. You have two

1084
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,480
of them. You get six hundred grand from the government,

1085
01:05:01,679 --> 01:05:04,719
and we're taking it and we're putting transmission lines over

1086
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,880
so everyone can have electricity. Sorry. You know, libertarians will

1087
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:10,840
let just kid hop and come up to the violence

1088
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,960
the ap and I'm like, okay, and yet walk outside

1089
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,440
your fucking house, dude, tell me about you on that

1090
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,679
ten feet in the back where the where the power

1091
01:05:19,679 --> 01:05:23,920
poles are. Oh you don't interesting. That's how good your

1092
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:25,559
arguments are. No one cares.

1093
01:05:26,159 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: Well, what they're going to do is they're going to

1094
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,119
write a book about how you can Well, if somebody

1095
01:05:31,199 --> 01:05:34,119
doesn't want the road on their property, they'll build a

1096
01:05:34,159 --> 01:05:37,400
tunnel under their property. Yeah, instead of just instead of

1097
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,880
just going hey, buddy, fuck you, we're gonna take it

1098
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:45,920
from you because you're a dick, right right, And I'm sorry,

1099
01:05:46,559 --> 01:05:47,079
there are.

1100
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: People in this Yeah.

1101
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,239
Speaker 1: I asked about private property earlier. I like private property.

1102
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,559
It lets me know and my neighbor know what we

1103
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,400
you know, what we need to take care of and

1104
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,440
what you know. I believe it bring some sense of order,

1105
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:03,039
but it doesn't always.

1106
01:06:03,199 --> 01:06:06,039
Speaker 3: They don't own the concept of private property. This is

1107
01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:08,679
the key thing is like libertarians will take something that

1108
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:12,480
people agree with or even partially, like some people have

1109
01:06:12,639 --> 01:06:16,679
thought about Kenesianism and said, oh, I don't like the

1110
01:06:16,719 --> 01:06:20,519
implications of this money printing. It bothers me, and then

1111
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:23,000
libertarians will be like, say, you're a libertarian, and you're like,

1112
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,320
but there's other people who don't like it, who weirdly

1113
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,360
aren't libertarian. So it's almost like anyone can dislike a

1114
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,920
thing for their own reasons and they don't have to

1115
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,559
join your club, and they get very weird when you

1116
01:06:35,599 --> 01:06:39,400
point this out to them. So it's you know, this

1117
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:43,320
is the problem with people who are the rigidity is

1118
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,599
a real issue. You know, they have a hard time

1119
01:06:45,679 --> 01:06:50,320
with plurality and a hard time with multiple you know,

1120
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:56,440
explanations for a phenomenon, and they're very single single cause thinkers.

1121
01:06:56,519 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, or god forbid, one of years crosses

1122
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:01,880
over with theirs.

1123
01:07:02,159 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: You know.

1124
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm very into local politics and I'm very into you

1125
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,960
know that people who people who know each other and

1126
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:16,280
are neighbors would be better to you know, form some

1127
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,320
sort of local government over each other and exclude other

1128
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,360
people from serving or whatever you can.

1129
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,639
Speaker 3: You can share tools without being a Marxist. I can

1130
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:30,760
lend my neighbor my rake without like singing the internationale.

1131
01:07:31,079 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: Right.

1132
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, as soon as you say that, it's like, oh,

1133
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,639
well no, that's just libertarian. It's like libertarians didn't invent

1134
01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:42,239
the concept of localism. Use dirty scumbag. Yeah, it's like,

1135
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:48,519
that is how this that that is how monocultures naturally

1136
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:51,880
occur naturally. I mean if you look at like the

1137
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,880
founding of this well, not even the founding, I'm talking

1138
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,639
about one hundred years before this country, before a government

1139
01:07:57,159 --> 01:07:59,840
was a national government was instituted, or there was a constitution,

1140
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,360
our declaration of independence. You didn't even need local police

1141
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,800
because if a horse went missing, you're going to put

1142
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,039
together a posse of people to find out who stole

1143
01:08:11,079 --> 01:08:15,000
the horse, because then your horse could be going missing next. Yeah,

1144
01:08:15,559 --> 01:08:19,720
that's what we're talking about here. Libertarians didn't create that.

1145
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:21,920
Get over your fucking selves.

1146
01:08:22,199 --> 01:08:23,399
Speaker 3: Have you ever been to Spain?

1147
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: No, And I'm fucking going. Man, there's like someone who

1148
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:30,600
talks about the Spanish Civil War as much.

1149
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,159
Speaker 3: As No, I'm not even I'm going to totally different,

1150
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:37,600
different tech. So the Sagata Familia is a church in

1151
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:42,199
Barcelona by designed by Gaudi, and it is if no

1152
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:45,960
structure on earth is a better reputation of libertarianism, I

1153
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:48,960
don't know what it is, maybe the Pyramids, but when

1154
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,279
you look at this thing, which is still not complete, right,

1155
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:53,319
they've been working on this for one hundred years now.

1156
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,439
Cathedrals always took hundreds of years, by the way, you

1157
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,319
know another thing the West has forgotten. But you know,

1158
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:06,079
described to me how something like the Cigaretta Familia would

1159
01:09:06,119 --> 01:09:10,119
exist in a world run by libertarians. It literally never would,

1160
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:14,359
it's and yet here it is. And I say that

1161
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:18,159
because so much of what's missing from libertarianism is an

1162
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:23,199
honest to god aspirational future. I think, yes, they take

1163
01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:25,880
possession of a lot of critiques of things that are bad,

1164
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:29,479
like you just pointed out, but they never really paint

1165
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,079
anything but a future where you know, they have all

1166
01:09:32,119 --> 01:09:34,680
the bullets, and then society collapses and then you have

1167
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:38,319
to go beg them for something like That's the libertarian

1168
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:42,279
view of paradise also known as the apocalypse to everyone else.

1169
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:45,600
Right libertarians always have a fantasy about being the like

1170
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:50,279
apex prepper. That's their view of the future, that's their

1171
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:55,359
aspirational future. It's not you know, it's not anything else.

1172
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:57,359
It's not like, Oh, we're going to build this great

1173
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,159
society that in No, no, because they can't do that.

1174
01:10:00,199 --> 01:10:01,720
They never can.

1175
01:10:03,359 --> 01:10:06,319
Speaker 1: Well, it's not profitable. It won't be profitable too, you know.

1176
01:10:06,359 --> 01:10:10,520
It's like, who's going to build when your whole I've

1177
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,359
had people say all we need to do is fix

1178
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:18,079
the whole dollar system. If we didn't have fractional reserve banking,

1179
01:10:18,399 --> 01:10:22,199
there wouldn't be as much degeneracy in the world, there

1180
01:10:22,199 --> 01:10:24,600
wouldn't be as much brutalism in the world. I'm like, yeah,

1181
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,239
because like the richest people on the planet, they have

1182
01:10:27,279 --> 01:10:28,600
no problems with degeneracy.

1183
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, what the fuck are you talking about?

1184
01:10:32,119 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 3: So I have a question are we all off base on?

1185
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,680
So when I criticize purity spiraling, I do it a lot.

1186
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,399
I have a whole habit of doing it. I hear

1187
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,359
you criticizing it. I know lots of people criticize it,

1188
01:10:45,399 --> 01:10:50,079
But are we missing a major thing to explore, and

1189
01:10:50,119 --> 01:10:54,279
that the nature of purity spiraling itself is in many

1190
01:10:54,319 --> 01:11:00,439
ways anti aspirational, meaning it's just policing. It's it's like

1191
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,439
a very like like shitty kindergarten teacher way of thinking,

1192
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,600
like a fit in your chair or maybe second grade teacher.

1193
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:12,520
More to the point, I always talk about purity spiraling

1194
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:15,239
and I'm just kind of criticizing myself and I'm literally

1195
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,199
curious what you think about this. I always kind of

1196
01:11:18,279 --> 01:11:19,920
use it as a way to just say, oh, well,

1197
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,239
these people aren't you know, they just haven't thought this

1198
01:11:23,399 --> 01:11:26,720
through and they're they're they're they're just willing to It's

1199
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:28,920
a perfect be the enemy of the good kind of thing.

1200
01:11:29,319 --> 01:11:30,840
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good,

1201
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,840
like get something done for God's sake. And purity spiraling

1202
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:35,680
is a way that, you know, people who are just

1203
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:40,399
too fussy, possibly too spurgy, but also possibly malign actors

1204
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:43,239
mind you all possible that these can all be true

1205
01:11:43,279 --> 01:11:49,760
together versus you know, we don't talk about it enough

1206
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,720
for what it is, which is the absence of anything

1207
01:11:54,079 --> 01:11:57,560
that we honestly want to work towards, like purity spiraling

1208
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,520
more than anything else. It's it is in no way

1209
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,880
a criticism reserved for libertarians. It is probably the most

1210
01:12:06,319 --> 01:12:08,680
whatever that act is. And I'm saying kind of like

1211
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,680
the phrase views might be too reductionists, but that act

1212
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:17,199
is our media. That act is are two political parties.

1213
01:12:17,239 --> 01:12:20,479
For God's sakes, they're just paying reference, you know, paying

1214
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:24,560
lip service rather to you know, some so called principle

1215
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,880
that's not deeply held, and like, have we missed something here,

1216
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:31,239
like just by calling it that, because I feel like

1217
01:12:31,279 --> 01:12:34,479
it really is the core of this problem.

1218
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,600
Speaker 1: Well, I guess from my experience and only in my experience,

1219
01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:46,640
the purity spiraling that that I've seen and experienced is

1220
01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:51,399
by people who have not achieved or have not even

1221
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:56,039
set out a path or have any power whatsoever. And

1222
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,680
basically what purity is spiraling I think allows you to

1223
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:04,239
do is it allows you to feel like you're having

1224
01:13:04,319 --> 01:13:07,720
some kind of wins, like you're like you're accomplishing something,

1225
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:13,319
when you really haven't accomplished anything. You know, purity purity

1226
01:13:13,399 --> 01:13:17,119
spiraling is basically what you're looking to do, is you're

1227
01:13:17,159 --> 01:13:18,760
looking to get say you're looking to get rid of

1228
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:23,720
bad actors, or you're trying to hone something. Well, you

1229
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,079
can end up doing that for the rest of your

1230
01:13:26,279 --> 01:13:31,079
life instead of just achieving what you need to achieve

1231
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,560
and then looking around and saying, Okay, we need to

1232
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:35,680
get we need to get rid of this.

1233
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 2: You need to get rid of.

1234
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 3: That, including the sloppy middle state of like the thing

1235
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,000
that is an ideal that is necessary to build the

1236
01:13:42,039 --> 01:13:45,119
next not ideal thing that moves the whole, you know,

1237
01:13:45,279 --> 01:13:48,840
enterprise forward. And that's the thing is if you never start,

1238
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,760
you never start. But to me, like the purity spiraling thing,

1239
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:53,840
it goes back to the puppy kicking, Like I feel

1240
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:55,760
like it's just like pointing to the T shirt, like

1241
01:13:56,159 --> 01:13:57,920
I'm in the I Don't Kick Puppies club.

1242
01:13:58,039 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: It's like, great, you well, it's well, it's it's and

1243
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:04,880
I think you said it and you may not have

1244
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,479
realized you were saying it. But it's also the assumption

1245
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,960
that you're ever going to get anything one hundred percent pure.

1246
01:14:10,119 --> 01:14:13,119
Nothing's ever going to be perfect. You're going to be

1247
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:17,960
dealing with you know, politics is I forget who said

1248
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:23,239
that politics is perpetual. You are always playing politics. There

1249
01:14:23,279 --> 01:14:25,199
is never going to You're never going to get to

1250
01:14:25,359 --> 01:14:28,560
a point where you're not going to have to police.

1251
01:14:29,359 --> 01:14:33,680
You're not going to have to you know, govern in

1252
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:34,640
some way.

1253
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 3: Because process not a project.

1254
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And the only thing you can hope for

1255
01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:44,680
is that you can hope. You can hope that you're

1256
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:49,720
doing it within a system where what you're doing is

1257
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:53,000
you're policing instead of trying to build. That's what the

1258
01:14:53,039 --> 01:14:58,079
progressives do. That's what liberalism is. Liberalism is building is

1259
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,279
selling and build bilding, selling a vision and building towards

1260
01:15:02,279 --> 01:15:05,560
a vision that can never be achieved. So you're constantly

1261
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:08,680
having to you know, well, I just we got to

1262
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,119
kill the coull ox because we're not going to get

1263
01:15:12,239 --> 01:15:14,039
you know, we got to get rid of instead of

1264
01:15:14,039 --> 01:15:17,640
being like, well maybe we're not. Maybe what we're trying

1265
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,600
to do can't scale. Maybe a government, maybe governing three

1266
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:26,479
hundred and fifty million people is beyond scale. And it's

1267
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:28,880
a lot easier if you have ten thousand, or you

1268
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,359
have twenty thousand, or even one hundred thousand. You know,

1269
01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:35,079
maybe there can be a confederation of hundred of states

1270
01:15:35,079 --> 01:15:38,520
of one hundred thousand people that can come together. And

1271
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,000
you know, oh, you mean like we tried and they

1272
01:15:41,079 --> 01:15:43,760
gave up on very quickly. You know, in the founding

1273
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,680
of this country. And I don't know if you want

1274
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:47,319
to argue over that, but the.

1275
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,520
Speaker 3: Base there wouldn't be I wouldn't argue there. There's no argument.

1276
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,840
The only defect I see in the original uh you

1277
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,600
know US Constitution, not the articles. But and it was

1278
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,800
not foreseen because it wasn't foreseen. But like I think, California,

1279
01:16:02,199 --> 01:16:04,399
you know, even Florida, like these states are too big,

1280
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,680
and after we screwed up the whole role of the Senate,

1281
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,840
not just by electing them. You don't have to ruin

1282
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:12,960
the role of the Senate by popular election, but it

1283
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:16,760
comes a long way. Ideally that the senators would know

1284
01:16:17,039 --> 01:16:19,399
and the US Senate would know that they represent the

1285
01:16:19,399 --> 01:16:22,520
interests of the state they come from. And I think

1286
01:16:23,039 --> 01:16:27,399
states should be approximately, you know, give or take, geographically

1287
01:16:28,399 --> 01:16:32,439
reasonably the same size and population wise reasonably the same size,

1288
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:38,640
because that would preserve a very mechanical kind of senator

1289
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:42,319
count that was tied to land, which was tied to

1290
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:45,079
people who you know, it's much more of that Yeoman

1291
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:49,920
farmer kind of origin story that America really has. But

1292
01:16:50,199 --> 01:16:53,399
when you have a state like California who has an

1293
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,720
excessive amount of representatives no. Granted, thankfully they only have

1294
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,920
two senators, but it screws the system up even more.

1295
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:02,960
We screwed it up obviously by allowing senators to be elected,

1296
01:17:03,159 --> 01:17:05,840
and we created this distortion and like, oh, it's just

1297
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:08,520
some more people that represent me. That's not what senators

1298
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:12,399
are supposed to do. And we don't even write laws.

1299
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:14,039
And you know, you look at what's happening with the

1300
01:17:14,079 --> 01:17:19,039
big beautiful bill bullshit. You know, they're not sitting there

1301
01:17:19,079 --> 01:17:22,840
trying to rectify state's interests with the interests of the

1302
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,680
people's House. That's not what they do. They just do. Oh,

1303
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,079
we have a different set of you know, we have

1304
01:17:28,119 --> 01:17:30,439
a different electoral count here, so we're going to pull

1305
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:35,119
our bullshit in all same bullshit, just different ways. The

1306
01:17:35,159 --> 01:17:40,399
whole process is just corrupted. Now. My solution for that is,

1307
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:42,119
why don't we just go back to the way it was,

1308
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:46,960
or you know, reinstitute. And I am not claiming I

1309
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,600
have a way of doing this, because obviously, if you

1310
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,119
if you cut California, New York, Florida, and Texas into

1311
01:17:52,119 --> 01:17:55,720
smaller pieces, we just get some gerrymandering fight where the

1312
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:57,680
left will steal it all and then we're going to

1313
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,079
be living in a country with no rights. I get that,

1314
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:05,600
but speaking idealistically, I think the greatest system is the

1315
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,239
one we have. Honestly, We've the world's tried a lot

1316
01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:11,640
of other things, and I think we need to kind

1317
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:16,159
of balance some states rights back into the whole system

1318
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:20,640
and maybe make the states more similarly sized. That would

1319
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:24,279
be a big solution to me. But it's a better

1320
01:18:24,319 --> 01:18:28,000
solution than revolution. It's a better solution than learning California

1321
01:18:28,039 --> 01:18:30,159
withdraw and take the land and give it to China.

1322
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,800
If California wants to secede, I say, okay, great, well,

1323
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,880
just you know you can. You can leave, but the

1324
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,079
land still ours. So you always want to flood Canada.

1325
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:45,399
That's fine, fine with me, but you're not taking the

1326
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:46,039
land with you.

1327
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 1: So no, yeah, I've I used to be one of

1328
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:52,920
those people when I was a libertarian.

1329
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:54,520
Speaker 2: Oh, like California seceede.

1330
01:18:55,119 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, you're not, you're not doing that.

1331
01:18:59,079 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: We're we'll let you go, We'll let the people go.

1332
01:19:03,359 --> 01:19:06,199
Speaker 3: Well, it's one of these things that sounds like a

1333
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:10,239
principled statement, but it's in concert with foreign malign actors. Right,

1334
01:19:10,399 --> 01:19:14,680
So if you haven't noticed this pattern yet, like Okay,

1335
01:19:14,359 --> 01:19:18,720
but that's reality. That's the reality of the Democratic Party

1336
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:24,800
being highly corrupted by Chinese communist influence. The Republican Party

1337
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:31,720
is highly corrupted by global corporatist influence, which includes parts

1338
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:36,600
of China that are probably not in great communion with

1339
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:43,039
Beijing in CCP terms, but they're not the enemies of

1340
01:19:43,079 --> 01:19:45,119
Beijing either, So you know, we get a lot of

1341
01:19:45,159 --> 01:19:48,760
crossover in what the corruption ultimately means. But both parties

1342
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:53,600
are certainly not serving the interests of the people. I

1343
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,760
do distrust the Democrats more, but that could just be

1344
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,000
a bias, or that could just be the reality is

1345
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:02,119
that it's more dangerous when a party is corrupted in

1346
01:20:02,159 --> 01:20:06,279
a unitary fashion to a single foreign malign actor, because

1347
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:10,319
that they can then coordinate for real damage, whereas if

1348
01:20:10,359 --> 01:20:13,960
the Republicans are just taking envelopes from everybody, then it's

1349
01:20:14,039 --> 01:20:16,239
less risky. Doesn't make it less.

1350
01:20:16,039 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, yeah, I've said that.

1351
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:24,159
Speaker 1: The really the only good thing about this this administration

1352
01:20:24,399 --> 01:20:27,840
is the fact that there are different elite factions vying

1353
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,800
for power, right, so at least you at least there's

1354
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,640
a chance that a you know, the non a.

1355
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 2: Pack wing will will win one.

1356
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've seen that yet. But the

1357
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,560
you know, I don't know how much crossover there is

1358
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,880
with these with these factions. I mean, I'm pretty much

1359
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:53,560
at the point now where it's like I state level

1360
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:57,600
politics and local politics have to basically have to make

1361
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,800
a comeback. And that's really the only the only way

1362
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:05,199
you're going to deal with this trying to change the machine,

1363
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,880
the managerial system that Washington, d C.

1364
01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 2: Has become.

1365
01:21:10,279 --> 01:21:13,720
Speaker 1: You know, people talk about the oh, this strong centralized government.

1366
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:16,840
I'm like kind of, but also it's like, what's the

1367
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:17,520
head of the snake?

1368
01:21:18,279 --> 01:21:19,199
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like who?

1369
01:21:19,399 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 1: Like, like if you if you wanted to destroy DC,

1370
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:26,520
what head of the stink do you do you chop off?

1371
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:28,680
And you know, and some of the people who listen

1372
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:30,960
to this will be like, well you just you you.

1373
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:32,439
Speaker 2: Get rid of all ISRAELI.

1374
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:37,600
Speaker 1: Well, no, we're still under the system. The system still

1375
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:39,439
runs the same way. Now you're just going to have

1376
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,359
another interest group that's going to that's going to be

1377
01:21:43,399 --> 01:21:47,279
able to run the manager run those managerial levers.

1378
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 2: Right.

1379
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,079
Speaker 3: So I'm looking at your background. I'm a fan of

1380
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:57,439
certain exilology. Is that flag something is that the I

1381
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:00,199
don't think you're a Neo Byzantine in the your choice

1382
01:22:00,239 --> 01:22:05,199
of yellow and red. But is that sort of like

1383
01:22:05,239 --> 01:22:07,119
are you are you kind of at this and cap

1384
01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:10,119
meets the state moment like what is uh, what's your

1385
01:22:10,119 --> 01:22:12,920
background image? What's the takeaway from that?

1386
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:19,560
Speaker 1: All right, that's the Alabama flag with the Spanish colors.

1387
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:20,119
Speaker 3: Interesting.

1388
01:22:21,279 --> 01:22:22,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just.

1389
01:22:22,359 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 1: Basically came to the conclusion a couple of years ago

1390
01:22:26,039 --> 01:22:30,520
that there there is really the only flag that possibly

1391
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,000
represents me in this country is a flag you're not

1392
01:22:34,079 --> 01:22:35,359
allowed to fly anymore.

1393
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,239
Speaker 2: So I decided to make my own, got it.

1394
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does kind of it does resemble the

1395
01:22:46,119 --> 01:22:48,159
that flag you're not allowed to fly anymore.

1396
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:51,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. You should get out more.

1397
01:22:51,159 --> 01:22:53,319
I mean, you live in Alabama, then you should certainly

1398
01:22:53,359 --> 01:22:55,000
see that flag on a regular basis.

1399
01:22:56,319 --> 01:22:56,520
Speaker 2: Oh.

1400
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,199
Speaker 1: Actually, you will see that flag more in Oregon then

1401
01:22:59,239 --> 01:23:03,840
you will see it in Alabama because and because so

1402
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:09,600
many people down here have bought into the whole. Yeah,

1403
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:13,199
we don't want to offend people. Wow, even though I

1404
01:23:13,239 --> 01:23:14,560
live in the middle I mean I live in the

1405
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:19,079
middle of nowhere. I can see one drive you know,

1406
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:21,640
I've seen maybe one or two in my town.

1407
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:23,239
Speaker 2: Possibly.

1408
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 3: What about the high concept stars and bars flyers as

1409
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:28,880
opposed to the battle flag flyers.

1410
01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 1: The high people who people.

1411
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 3: Some people fly the stars and bars, which is the

1412
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:38,239
state flag of the Confederacy, which is not the cross.

1413
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:40,119
Speaker 2: I never I never see that one.

1414
01:23:40,319 --> 01:23:43,199
Speaker 3: I eat the old Georgia flag that was the whole thing.

1415
01:23:43,279 --> 01:23:47,479
Is the Georgia flag they or excuse me, the replace.

1416
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,560
So the Georgia flag used to have the battle flag

1417
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:52,159
in it, which pissed everybody off, just like the Mississippi flag.

1418
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,640
But then Georgia's flag that they fly now is essentially

1419
01:23:55,960 --> 01:24:00,000
really similar, even more similar to the stars and bars,

1420
01:24:00,279 --> 01:24:03,520
which was the official state flag of the Confederacy then

1421
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:07,359
the previous one was, and that's the one everyone picked

1422
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:10,680
in their fits of uneducated moral preening.

1423
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:16,319
Speaker 1: So oh, I never really even never even thought about that.

1424
01:24:16,359 --> 01:24:18,199
And I lived I lived in Georgia forever.

1425
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 3: The interplay, I think, of all these things, it's it's,

1426
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:23,319
you know, there comes a point where it really is

1427
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:28,840
about individuals versus the state, and I think, you know,

1428
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,800
we could do a whole nother podcast on the implications

1429
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,840
of atheism versus faith in that fight. There's people who

1430
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:39,159
will not submit to any authority and I think that's

1431
01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:42,520
a type of individualism that doesn't appeal to me. But

1432
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:46,880
there's also states that won't submit to any authority people

1433
01:24:47,119 --> 01:24:50,039
be either below or above. That doesn't appeal to me either.

1434
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,960
And you know, I think this moment of where we

1435
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:59,399
are in the I'd say since twenty you know, twenty twelve,

1436
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:03,800
twenty thirteen, at some point, like as blogs yielded to

1437
01:25:04,119 --> 01:25:07,319
podcasts yielded to whatever, like, we have a very strong

1438
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,680
amount of some other form of media. Like we're at

1439
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,079
this transition point between the old mass communication era era

1440
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:20,319
like like and I mean Gerbels, burnets, soap operas, like

1441
01:25:20,359 --> 01:25:22,079
whatever you want to call it. And there's all different

1442
01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:25,840
ways we could parse it. But the top down propaganda

1443
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:33,119
era has yielded, unfortunately to the multipolar propaganda mixed with

1444
01:25:33,279 --> 01:25:40,640
good content era. And there's right now, literally after this

1445
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:44,640
bombing of Fordo, I'm watching the decompensation of all these

1446
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:50,920
little fiefdoms of you know, Tucker, Candace, blah, blah blah.

1447
01:25:51,279 --> 01:25:53,119
I really think we're at a weird moment right now.

1448
01:25:53,119 --> 01:25:56,279
It could be one of the biggest, most important moments

1449
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:00,720
in independent media history, is that this could where it

1450
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:04,199
all it feels like an event horizon has been crossed

1451
01:26:04,239 --> 01:26:07,640
where all these little and it may again come back

1452
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,359
to purity spiraling, like each one of these little zones

1453
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:12,960
where you can't you think you're a rebel, but you

1454
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,840
can't say X, you can't say why. I feel like

1455
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,800
the whole thing is just it's too brittle. And Trump

1456
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:22,479
taking the action he took. You know, we don't know why,

1457
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,439
but we know that. I will tell you. I do

1458
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,199
not predict that that Maga as a movement just broke.

1459
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:34,159
I think a lot of og maga Twitter, a lot

1460
01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:36,319
of it was bots man like a lot of these

1461
01:26:36,319 --> 01:26:39,960
people think they're more important than they are. And I

1462
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:42,479
think Trump has a real connection with a lot of users.

1463
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:47,960
And I think something's about to happen in the media space.

1464
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:51,439
You know, AI is a major unknown in all this,

1465
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:55,760
right like, because there's there's things AI can especially at

1466
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,680
moments if we cross some sort of event horizon, it's

1467
01:26:59,159 --> 01:27:03,920
AI presents huge danger to all of us. But I

1468
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:07,439
feel like something, something just happened, and I don't know

1469
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,920
that we can talk about it today, but in a

1470
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:11,840
couple of months, I think we're going to look back.

1471
01:27:13,119 --> 01:27:14,880
You know, it's going to be interesting to see how

1472
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,359
you know, Dave Smith or Tucker or some of these

1473
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:20,840
people who have laid out these incredible anti Trump positions.

1474
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,600
We'll see how that has, how that ages, because I

1475
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:29,319
think some of it's gonna you know, like you said before,

1476
01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:32,439
there's another alternative than this turning into World War three

1477
01:27:33,319 --> 01:27:37,079
and people pounding you know, their apple box about it

1478
01:27:37,119 --> 01:27:39,960
being world War three and there being no other possibility.

1479
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:43,439
The sort of reduction is thinking. I mean, we all

1480
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,000
hope they're wrong, because no one wants world War three, right,

1481
01:27:46,199 --> 01:27:50,079
you know. I hope that's true. But I think a

1482
01:27:50,119 --> 01:27:57,319
lot of a lot of this apoplexy, you know, is

1483
01:27:57,399 --> 01:27:59,640
going to have a cost to a lot of people.

1484
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:01,880
And I'm it's really interested to see what happens. I

1485
01:28:02,119 --> 01:28:05,520
don't I'm not making a particular prediction. I'm just saying

1486
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:09,920
that we just passed through something, and I'm not I'm

1487
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:14,760
not expecting us to look back and not remember it. Well.

1488
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:18,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, people have, people do have really good memories.

1489
01:28:18,319 --> 01:28:23,119
Because obviously, because I said Trump was preferable to Kamala,

1490
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,439
that means that I endorse everything that's happening now. I

1491
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:31,880
don't know that he ever took money from Mariam Adelson. Yeah,

1492
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:36,680
I mean obviously, you know, I don't. According to some people,

1493
01:28:37,199 --> 01:28:40,840
I was just being I was being duped, and anyone

1494
01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:44,319
I told to that Trump was preferable to Kamala, I

1495
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,640
was duping them, and I'm I'm the enemy. Yeah, I've

1496
01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:50,960
heard this from the spurgy scumbags.

1497
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 3: You don't have to listen to those people because those

1498
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,880
people believe in a world of single causes, like they're

1499
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:58,239
just solving a level on their video game, Like there's

1500
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:00,600
only one demon. You saw, you stab them in the

1501
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,319
left side, you move on to the next level. It's

1502
01:29:03,359 --> 01:29:06,239
just not a good metaphor for life, work or understanding

1503
01:29:06,239 --> 01:29:09,960
the world that you live in. But they talk a lot,

1504
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:13,359
you know, like come to our come to our slack server.

1505
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:16,159
I can introduce you a few just like that.

1506
01:29:17,359 --> 01:29:21,239
Speaker 1: Well, I'll put it this way. I'm not a My

1507
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:29,600
personality is not conducive to one hundred thousand downloads an episode.

1508
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that.

1509
01:29:32,039 --> 01:29:33,600
Speaker 1: If I put it this way, with a lot of

1510
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:35,079
the stuff I talk about, if I was at one

1511
01:29:35,119 --> 01:29:38,159
hundred thousand downloads an episode, the world would probably be

1512
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:43,039
looking very different right now. But I understand that I'm

1513
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:46,399
I just don't see. The thing is is that I

1514
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:50,680
think that a lot of these people who have these big,

1515
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:57,279
gigantic audiences are not going to suffer at all because

1516
01:29:57,319 --> 01:30:02,840
it's a cult of personality. People like them, people like

1517
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:05,600
you know, people like Tucker, people like Dave Smith, people

1518
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,520
like Candice Owens, and whatever mistakes they're making now with

1519
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:14,279
whatever hyperbole they're unleashing now, even if it turns out

1520
01:30:14,319 --> 01:30:17,920
to be, even if it turns out that you know,

1521
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:20,399
they're completely wrong and you know this, hey, this just

1522
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:24,039
was you know, like the bombing, like the bombing of

1523
01:30:24,199 --> 01:30:27,079
the uh the air the air base in Iraq after

1524
01:30:27,239 --> 01:30:30,760
the Solemany when it when it ran bombed, and basically

1525
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,640
Trump said, I knew it was going to happen. It

1526
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:36,800
was them saving face. It's fine. If that's what this was,

1527
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:40,079
then they'll just be like, well, you know, they'll find

1528
01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:45,520
something else that their audience that is expecting everything to

1529
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:50,439
go wrong, that is just waiting for is buying the

1530
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:55,079
message that nothing can go right. And I don't know

1531
01:30:55,119 --> 01:30:57,880
that Tucker sells that message as much, but you know,

1532
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:02,880
he definitely had has been lately. I don't I think

1533
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:05,760
that people just keep still, We'll keep listening to them

1534
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,399
because that's the message that they want to hear. I've

1535
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:10,880
noticed that, I've noticed that on all sides of the

1536
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:16,840
political spectrum is people latch onto somebody because the message

1537
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:19,840
is something, the message that's coming out. Even if it

1538
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:25,000
turns out that it was crying wolf, well, that's perfectly

1539
01:31:25,039 --> 01:31:26,920
fine because I like this person.

1540
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:30,680
Speaker 3: Well the most. I think the most recurrent problem that

1541
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:34,600
Tom and I have had in sort of the evolution

1542
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:37,079
of gold Goats and Guns has been, you know, we've

1543
01:31:37,119 --> 01:31:40,640
stuck to a very simple framework, which is, you know,

1544
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:44,199
we examine things over and over again, and we examine

1545
01:31:44,239 --> 01:31:48,479
our premises, and there's always these kind of periodic shakeouts

1546
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:53,760
of people. They think it's about, frankly, about some current

1547
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:56,680
event and our perspective on that current event. But I

1548
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:59,680
notice over and over that it's the same personality types

1549
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:02,119
to get shook out. And we have a very strong

1550
01:32:02,159 --> 01:32:07,720
community because the people who remain are actually interested in analysis,

1551
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,800
not conclusions. Because you live in a world where if

1552
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:14,079
you want the same analysis from two different spigots, you

1553
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:18,439
can get all you need and you still don't feel informed.

1554
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:23,760
So really having sort of an exegetical analytical approach to

1555
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,079
each one of these things. It guarantees you'll piss people

1556
01:32:26,159 --> 01:32:30,239
off repeatedly, and you know, like currently Tom is down

1557
01:32:30,239 --> 01:32:33,199
a rabbit hole on whether or Iron is working with

1558
01:32:33,279 --> 01:32:35,600
Davos that I think a lot of people think, you know,

1559
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:40,520
he's nuts. I don't even know how far down the

1560
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,239
development cycle I am to even comment on it, because

1561
01:32:43,279 --> 01:32:47,119
I don't see it that way either. But people understand

1562
01:32:47,119 --> 01:32:51,039
that what Tom does over and over is is, you know,

1563
01:32:51,159 --> 01:32:59,800
dismiss the guardrails of premises you can't undo and just

1564
01:33:00,039 --> 01:33:04,319
and not. It's not you know, sometimes it's it's schizo posting, right,

1565
01:33:04,359 --> 01:33:06,479
which is kind of the opposite of purity spiraling in

1566
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:10,039
a weird way. But it's repeatedly doing that and iterating

1567
01:33:10,039 --> 01:33:12,479
on that to the point where we also criticize the

1568
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:17,159
dumb conclusions we make. And what's left is something people

1569
01:33:17,319 --> 01:33:21,199
want to, you know, at least witness. And I take

1570
01:33:21,239 --> 01:33:23,560
as much pride in people telling us, you know, dude,

1571
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:26,840
I literally do the opposite of what you say, but

1572
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:30,800
you're so different that you're the reason I trade the

1573
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:36,239
way I trade because I don't follow your advice, and

1574
01:33:36,279 --> 01:33:39,159
not that we get financial advice. But you know, a

1575
01:33:39,159 --> 01:33:42,760
lot of people understand that we're just honestly analyzing what

1576
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:46,720
we analyze and that that product is consistent, you know,

1577
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:50,279
and sometimes we deliver tomorrow zeitgeist today when we hit

1578
01:33:50,319 --> 01:33:53,159
it out of the park, and it's those moments which

1579
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:55,760
are the reason we do it, and sometimes we get

1580
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:59,840
shit wrong, you know. Fine, But the world where everybody

1581
01:34:00,119 --> 01:34:04,319
is in a personality cult, where that in that relationship

1582
01:34:04,399 --> 01:34:10,680
is a much different type of relationship. You I think

1583
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:12,920
anyone who has hitched their ride to Trump and then

1584
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:15,920
who reverses on Trump is going to lose most of

1585
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:17,960
their audience. But I think you're right that like Tucker,

1586
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:22,159
certainly Dave Smith's audience, you know, isn't there because Dave

1587
01:34:22,319 --> 01:34:25,720
was recently nice about Trump in the last three months.

1588
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:29,880
So I think he's probably pretty safe there. And I'm

1589
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:32,479
not sure I can make a generalization about Candice Owen's

1590
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:37,600
audience that at all. It's like, I'm not sure who

1591
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:42,239
her audience is. But I think what Tucker is probably

1592
01:34:42,279 --> 01:34:45,920
in the most is on the most risky ground for

1593
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:47,119
what I've mentioned before.

1594
01:34:48,079 --> 01:34:50,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the mistake that I made is and

1595
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:53,640
I know that like Tom has people in the background

1596
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,560
who tell him stuff, you know, like like insiders. And

1597
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:59,199
I was gotten to the point where I have insiders

1598
01:34:59,239 --> 01:35:01,800
who feed me in from all the time too. But

1599
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:04,000
I've gotten to the point now where I wait for

1600
01:35:04,119 --> 01:35:06,359
like two or three people to tell me something so

1601
01:35:06,399 --> 01:35:09,960
that if I repeat it and say, well, this might

1602
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:11,760
be in play. This might be in play, this might

1603
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:13,319
be in play.

1604
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:15,119
Speaker 2: They are competing things, you know.

1605
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 1: I think where I've gotten in trouble in the past

1606
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,119
is one person will tell me something and I'll be like, well,

1607
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:22,800
this could be in play, and when I say could,

1608
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:27,319
no one hears could, right, They hear this is in play,

1609
01:35:27,319 --> 01:35:29,199
and this is what's going to happen. And this is

1610
01:35:29,199 --> 01:35:30,159
where you need to bet all.

1611
01:35:30,199 --> 01:35:30,359
Speaker 3: You know.

1612
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,039
Speaker 1: This is where And it's not like I'm telling people

1613
01:35:33,079 --> 01:35:38,079
to invest money people. People have this idea and I've

1614
01:35:38,079 --> 01:35:42,560
experienced this over the past couple of days that if

1615
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:48,880
they are following somebody who's made predictions that are right on,

1616
01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:54,479
like Iran's going to be bombed, Trump's gonna Trump's not

1617
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:57,000
going to be the peace president, he will do some bombing,

1618
01:35:57,319 --> 01:35:59,439
or Trump's gonna do this, Trump's gonna do that. If

1619
01:35:59,479 --> 01:36:03,640
they follow somebody who's right about that, somehow that's enriching

1620
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:08,319
to them like they know something because they listen to

1621
01:36:08,359 --> 01:36:12,159
this person who basically says, you know, they'll listen to

1622
01:36:12,159 --> 01:36:15,079
people who will just say nothing is ever going to change.

1623
01:36:15,079 --> 01:36:17,319
Everything's just gonna get worse and worse. And that's a

1624
01:36:17,359 --> 01:36:20,840
great bet, Yeah, because eighty percent of the time you're

1625
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:23,159
going to be right, and the other twenty percent you

1626
01:36:23,199 --> 01:36:26,399
could just you can deflect and you can make it

1627
01:36:26,479 --> 01:36:29,640
mean something else. Well, you know, this is actually what's happening,

1628
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:32,039
and you know this can't be proven, but this can

1629
01:36:32,079 --> 01:36:33,199
definitely be proven.

1630
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 2: So it's just.

1631
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 1: Basically people are people want like it is. It's why

1632
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:42,760
conspiracy theories are so popular. People want to feel like

1633
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:46,720
they know what's going to happen or what's happening because

1634
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,399
it makes them feel special because other people don't.

1635
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:53,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the settled audience that around.

1636
01:36:53,399 --> 01:36:55,800
You know, Like what you're describing is somebody's gotten some

1637
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:59,640
stuff right, and these people, by vicarious you know, participation,

1638
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:02,680
feel that it makes them, you know, be part of

1639
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,960
the right team. I think though, as you grow, you

1640
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:09,319
get this opposite weird effect, which is and I think

1641
01:37:09,359 --> 01:37:11,399
you mentioned that this has happened to you a lot

1642
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:14,520
in the last. You know, let's say week when you

1643
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:19,000
predict something and it comes true and it's not necessarily

1644
01:37:19,039 --> 01:37:22,239
a positive event, there's a whole weird type of listener

1645
01:37:22,279 --> 01:37:26,039
follower who then blames you for endorsing the course of

1646
01:37:26,079 --> 01:37:28,840
action which you merely predicted. And it's like, dude, I

1647
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,520
didn't I don't think this is good. I think this

1648
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:34,680
is bad. But I looked at the fucking game board

1649
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:36,760
and I told you this was going to happen. And

1650
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:39,760
then I have to get flak about you telling me, oh,

1651
01:37:40,199 --> 01:37:42,479
I can't believe you wanted this. It's like I didn't

1652
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:46,880
want this. I just told you was coming, you fucking moron.

1653
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,239
Speaker 1: It's well, I'm actually in the opposite direction because I'm

1654
01:37:51,239 --> 01:37:53,000
more apt to say I don't think this is going

1655
01:37:53,079 --> 01:37:53,479
to happen.

1656
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:56,840
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm not speaking generally. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah.

1657
01:37:56,880 --> 01:38:00,239
Speaker 1: But then when it does happen, well, then I I

1658
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:02,520
was leading people astray, you know.

1659
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:04,359
Speaker 2: And it's like they're.

1660
01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:09,279
Speaker 3: Both describing like participatory conspiracy, right, like you were running

1661
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:12,880
in that sense you're running malops and and like like

1662
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:16,920
I'm running disinfo. You know. It's like, okay, But the

1663
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:19,720
point is is there's a type of person who can't

1664
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:23,600
distinguish between a prediction and an endorsement. And those are

1665
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:26,880
some of the Some of them are very intelligent on

1666
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:30,079
one vector, but they're very hard to deal with on others.

1667
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:34,760
And I think that, you know, what you're saying about

1668
01:38:35,199 --> 01:38:38,840
audiences too, is like as you're growing that other version

1669
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:42,920
where people are sort of vicariously, you know, living out

1670
01:38:43,159 --> 01:38:48,159
their their worldview through you, that that's like, that's always on.

1671
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:49,680
You know, you get more and more of those people

1672
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,079
as you go, and that's honestly, you know, until it

1673
01:38:53,159 --> 01:38:56,680
feeds your ego to the point where you collapse. That

1674
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:58,479
that's you know, kind of the point, right, Like you

1675
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:00,720
want people to at least agree with you most of

1676
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:03,600
the time, but the danger comes where they don't disagree

1677
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:08,920
with you ever. Thankfully I'm not there yet. You got

1678
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:10,319
plenty of disagreement, so.

1679
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:13,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, And I get disagreement too, and that's fine.

1680
01:39:13,399 --> 01:39:15,000
I have people tell me all the time. I listen

1681
01:39:15,039 --> 01:39:17,399
to you because I think you're honest, but you're you know,

1682
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:19,000
sometimes you're just honestly wrong.

1683
01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean that's what's going to happen.

1684
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:23,680
Speaker 3: The other thing is when you get big enough, there

1685
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:27,600
are people trying to lie to you because they think

1686
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,920
you might not catch it and you'll magnify the point

1687
01:39:30,920 --> 01:39:33,560
of view, Like there came a point where I don't know,

1688
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,840
like Tom and I've done this for a while, and

1689
01:39:36,279 --> 01:39:39,119
he went down some rabbit hole with like italy and

1690
01:39:39,159 --> 01:39:40,279
blah blah blah, and I was like, where are you

1691
01:39:40,279 --> 01:39:42,560
getting this information? You know? And I kind of like

1692
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:46,319
I need you to get this from more than one person,

1693
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:49,079
because there comes a point when something's obtuse to your

1694
01:39:49,119 --> 01:39:53,239
personal lived experience. You get down to like what they

1695
01:39:53,279 --> 01:39:55,920
call like, you know, the imprinting factor. It's like, you know,

1696
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,159
the baby giraffe who thought that Jeep was her mother.

1697
01:39:59,319 --> 01:40:02,199
The first thing you here has excess validity, right, it's

1698
01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:05,800
a there's a there's a there's a word in psychology

1699
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:10,600
for this anchoring bias. And so when people when you're

1700
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:14,159
when you're popular to a certain level and then someone's like, hey,

1701
01:40:14,159 --> 01:40:16,279
have you heard about what's happening in Bhutan? And you're like,

1702
01:40:16,279 --> 01:40:18,199
I don't know anything about Bhutan, and they're like, let

1703
01:40:18,199 --> 01:40:20,079
me tell you now, all of a sudden, you have

1704
01:40:20,119 --> 01:40:23,520
a big risk of being just played by one very

1705
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:27,680
small faction in Bhutan to like, you know, take a

1706
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:30,880
side in something you have no fucking idea about, and

1707
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:33,119
so you know, that's a whole other risk factor is

1708
01:40:33,159 --> 01:40:36,600
as you grow, you have to just keep applying the

1709
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:40,479
same heuristics to like bullshit or not, you know, because

1710
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:42,279
there's someone out there who's like, oh, this guy might

1711
01:40:42,319 --> 01:40:44,319
doesn't know shit about this, and maybe I can sleep

1712
01:40:44,359 --> 01:40:44,960
sneak this in.

1713
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:47,199
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1714
01:40:47,239 --> 01:40:48,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's one of the reasons why I

1715
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:53,199
don't like to I try not to talk about I think,

1716
01:40:53,319 --> 01:40:55,760
like I know, Tom likes to talk about London likes

1717
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:58,439
to talk about Davos likes to talk about It's like,

1718
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:02,359
I mean, I know about those things. But really, honestly,

1719
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:09,920
I look at the United States and I see enough. Yeah,

1720
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:13,920
the founders talked about the enemy foreign and domestic. I'm

1721
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:18,520
a little more concerned about the enemy domestic. Who I mean,

1722
01:41:19,159 --> 01:41:23,199
whoever may be pulling their strings. Okay, that's fine, but

1723
01:41:23,319 --> 01:41:25,479
if I you know, if you can point out that

1724
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:29,439
their strings are being pulled, you know, I mean Ted

1725
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:36,239
Cruz last week probably. I mean, I know a lot

1726
01:41:36,319 --> 01:41:39,920
of people who would have been Ted Cruz forever who

1727
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:42,159
have contacted me and said, oh, yeah, it's des Droid.

1728
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:44,880
Speaker 3: In my eyes because of the Tucker interview.

1729
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he basically said, I really just don't Yeah,

1730
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:54,840
I went into the Senate for one reason, and it

1731
01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:59,039
wasn't to protect American interests, right, And then he went

1732
01:41:59,119 --> 01:42:02,119
and then he weird is kept going.

1733
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:05,479
Speaker 3: He probably what's what The thing that makes it even

1734
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:08,720
worse is he probably said that on the fly, Like

1735
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:14,119
he's such an oily lizard that like he probably made

1736
01:42:14,159 --> 01:42:17,039
that up on the fly because he's just that, like

1737
01:42:17,079 --> 01:42:21,640
those are his political instincts. He's so bad at certain things.

1738
01:42:22,399 --> 01:42:24,680
And I like, I'm not sure I believe that he

1739
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:28,119
entered politics to serve Israel's interests, but I know that

1740
01:42:28,199 --> 01:42:30,760
he didn't enter them to serve Americas and that's all

1741
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:31,479
that really matters.

1742
01:42:32,159 --> 01:42:35,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean, you get caught. People can

1743
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:39,239
get caught out there and they're like, oh, I feel

1744
01:42:39,239 --> 01:42:42,359
like this group that gives me millions of dollars is

1745
01:42:42,399 --> 01:42:44,920
being attacked. I need to defend them, and I'm going

1746
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:47,520
to go over the top and defending them. And then

1747
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:49,960
he just went full he went full Mediterranean and you know,

1748
01:42:50,399 --> 01:42:52,880
high time preference, and just started losing his mind.

1749
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:57,720
Speaker 2: That's just the way it looked. Hey, what are you

1750
01:42:57,760 --> 01:42:59,239
talking about? Hey?

1751
01:42:59,239 --> 01:43:02,199
Speaker 1: What Hey, I don't what I'm talking about here exactly,

1752
01:43:04,399 --> 01:43:09,760
but all right anyway, yeah, yeah, let's uh, let's let's

1753
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,319
get out of here, promote gold Goats and Guns and

1754
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:13,159
we'll lend this.

1755
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, no, thanks for having me on. I I

1756
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,359
really appreciate it's fun. It's fun having chats about stuff

1757
01:43:19,399 --> 01:43:22,239
like this, and like I said, well we'll revisit some

1758
01:43:22,319 --> 01:43:25,439
of these assumptions. If you want to find my work,

1759
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,079
my name is Dexter writer right for gold Goats and Guns.

1760
01:43:28,119 --> 01:43:31,479
We have a monthly newsletter me and Tom Wongo. You

1761
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:34,840
can go to Goldgoatsanguns dot com. But chances are you're

1762
01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:36,680
just going to go to Tom Wogo dot e because

1763
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:40,479
it's easier to spell, and one just forwards to the other. Anyway,

1764
01:43:41,359 --> 01:43:45,079
So if you're interested, podcasts, newsletter, et cetera is all

1765
01:43:45,119 --> 01:43:48,520
available there. And again, Pete, thanks for having me on.

1766
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:49,439
I really appreciate it.

1767
01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 2: Appreciate it exor thank you. Sure