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Speaker 1: What is up, fellows it goos. I am Dan fa

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Valley coming at you with the one, the only, my

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certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. We are here

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to talk about NBA teams that could potentially look dramatically

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different next season, because that's just an interesting topic this

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time of the year. There's still games going on, the

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playoff races are being covered. But we just did a

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bunch of sophomore stock reports, took a look at, you know,

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player values to each team. This was like a good

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exercise to go into right now, especially with Grant. We've

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reached kind of that point where we're removed from the

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trade deadline by about a month, and so now all

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these rumors trickle out about the trades that didn't happen

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or the things that were happening but behind the scenes.

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So it's also somewhat topical there. But first and foremost,

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how the heck are you, sir?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing very well, and I would like to point

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out to anyone concerned that if Dan and I like

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yell at each other, it's the sign of a good relationship,

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because that's what Kevin Durant and Mike Budenholzer have taught

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us is that's how you can tell if you're really

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getting along well as if you constantly scream at each

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other in public.

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Speaker 1: Look, I favor it. That's fine, which clearly means that

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we despise each other because I have. Honestly, the biggest

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disagreement we have might have come on the previous podcast

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when we talked about Brandon Pajemski and Jonathan Cominga's value

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to the Warriors long term.

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Speaker 2: Could be, well, who knows, maybe something will happen today,

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maybe we'll finally.

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Speaker 1: We're still waiting for the day where you just get

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irate on the podcast. We're all just waiting. So when

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we were building our list here and so the way

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to work is we have like kind of the primary

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candidates list, and then we each chose a dark horse

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that will talk about at the end, and then they'll

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be assuming there's time, I'll roll through a bunch of

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the super quick hitters and say like, if this happens,

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could this team fall here? And then Grant will respond

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to see what he thinks about that. But when you

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were kind of cobbling together like our initial list, how

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did you like, what is the crux of this approach,

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especially when you're looking at teams that aren't always going

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to fall on the same end of the competitive spectrum

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right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting that because I think we do have

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a pretty good I'd say the list of our team

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skews more towards like, you know, winning than losing or

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like pretty good right now. I think what mattered more

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was the intersection of like decisions that are going to

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be foisted on them, like for reasons outside the team's control,

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like just contracts expire, or like player options come up

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or whatever. That how that intersects with to draw it

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back to the KD. Buttenholzer thing of like the dynamics

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within the team just suggests like something's got to give,

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So like the interior and exterior force is just like

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nudging the team towards being pretty different next year. What

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I didn't focus on as much is like, well, how

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easy will it be for them to be different? And

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we'll talk about that because one thing that is these

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teams don't have in common is just like their level

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of flexibility and like how easy or hard it'll be

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for them to you know, to undertake the kind of

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changes we're talking about. So Yeah, it's mostly just like

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if you had to if you had to look at

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the teams this year, like what forces, how many forces

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are sort of pushing them to look different? I guess

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if I had to make it as neat as possible,

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that is that how you approached it, like or was

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it more like did you lean one way or the

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other harder? Like in terms of like, oh, this guy's

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a free agent versus like something i'd do freaking something

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about the suns.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think this is it's I think at

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the top it's heavily weighted by decisions as you mentioned,

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that could be foisted upon them. But I actually more

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so kind of lasered in on okay, teams that are

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they either trying to take the next step or do

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they think that they took the next step and it's

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clearly not working, And there's been enough time to say that, Okay,

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it's not working, Like are we gonna look for a

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pivot or do we have news reported evidence that oh

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they are clearly looking for a change up. I did

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what I did struggle with, and we do have some

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of these teams in here is to be an outright

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seller wasn't really something that I factor into the equation

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there's one or two teams that might amble on to

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that primary tier that we're going to talk about, But

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I didn't like, Okay, these teams might look a lot different,

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but there if you were gonna if it was involved

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of oh, they're gonna move a lot of veterans, in

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my head, it was almost were they also trying to

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take a step forward as well to where the Blazers

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would be a good example, which is a team that

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I think we'll talk about, is okay, Like, especially the

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way they're playing now, it's they definitely should be looking

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to move Jeremy Grant, DeAndre Ayten or just An Aighton's

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injured at the moment, Like those are the two names

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you gravitate towards. But it's okay, well, how much of

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a like are those the two? Even though I Jeremy

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Grant's gonna play a ton of minutes, is he someone

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who's necessarily driving success for the Blazers? So I also

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try to factor that is, yeah, Brooklyn, there's gonna be turnover,

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Like maybe they trade Cam Johnson, maybe they trade Nick Clackson.

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They're gonna bring in a high draft pick, we think,

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But They're not a team that's gonna make the primary tier.

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Speaker 2: For me, right, yeah, I agree with that.

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Speaker 1: We begin with the Houston Rockets. I think the way

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to approach this is they do have some decisions that

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are being foisted upon them. When you look at specifically

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the Fred van Fleet team option. They did just extend

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Jalen Green and Alpa and Shangun, so those salaries will

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kick in and now you're thinking about extensions this offseason,

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or at least they're eligible for them in Tar East

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and Jabari Smith Junior. And this is all juxtapose against Okay.

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The Rockets are good now, but we've kind of like

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that Fred van Fleet injury and then Shanghun did miss

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some like some time. It did kind of spotlight the

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limitations of their offense, which we've all suspected all along.

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That all goes to say, I could see this team

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not doing anything over the offseason because one Reed Shepherd

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comes out and drops twenty five against Okay C's defense.

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The answer is right there and now everything a lot

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of these teams, it depends on Okay, Well, what happens

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in the playoffs. We think that Houston's gonna be a

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little vulnerable in the playoffs. But grant, what if they

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go into the playoffs, they make the conference finals or something.

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Why like, are you really going to say, oh, they

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need to make a consolidation trade right now. But for me,

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at least I have them here because they have the assets,

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they're good enough to say, right, we want to make

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that leap into authentic title contention. I could see them.

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Maybe it won't be a bunch of moves where it's oh,

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four different guy, or maybe it has to be because

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of whatever the package ends up being. But they seem

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like a team that should be on the radar. If

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there's this singular seismic type move made, they're among the

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candidates to pull it off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you can get You can come at

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them from a lot of different angles. And it's not

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I would know too. It's not just Jabari Smith and

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Tarry Easton our extension eligible this summer. It's like the

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waves just keep coming, like two at a time after that,

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where it'll be Thompson and Cam Whitmore and then like,

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by the way, Jalen Green's contract is so short, he's

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going to be eligible for an extension in like a

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couple of years. Too, and then Shepherd will be there

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whoever they you know, So it is it is very

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much like it's not urgent, right, It's not the same

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kind of It's not like, oh my god, we have

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to consolidate now because we can't pay all these I mean,

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that's partly true, but you do sort of need to

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make decisions. And that part of it coupled with like

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where Houston is the difference that like a high end

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offensive engine could make if it's not Fred van Vliet.

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If Fred van Vliet is this is someone that you

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pick up the team option on to trade in a

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package for LaMelo ball or or Trey Young or whatever

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like to get the okay, we have the engine now

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that they really don't like. There's all these different angles

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for it to take. And I mean we can talk

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as much or as little about it as you want.

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But the phoenix of it all with maybe Kevin Durant

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is the guy that they want to you know, PLoP

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in there to just super fast tracked the contention window

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and you've got Phoenix's picks to send back, which we've

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mentioned a million times. Like Devin Booker, you know, there's

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no report. Reporting just continues to go the other way

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that Devin Booker doesn't want out. We'll talk more about

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them later, but you know, there's just a lot of

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different ways that could go for the Rockets, and I

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don't think it would be Well, what do you do

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you think it would be a mistake to make the

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like consolidation trade or make the big swing this summer.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I want to see have a playoffs unfold, obviously,

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I don't think it would be a mistake. When you

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get into someone like a Kevin Durant who can fit anywhere,

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it is still incredible. The opportunity cost matters a lot

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to me, because if you're gonna like caps Lot consolidates

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where it's not just salary, and then like a Phoenix

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pick or two, like if that's the like, if it's

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Fred van Fleet, a smaller salary, and then we're talking

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what one or two of Phoenix's picks or just one

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or two picks in general to get Kevin Durant, I

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think that's worth the roll of the dice. But now

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if you're talking about giving up a couple of your

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youngsters in addition to even more draft equity than that,

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I think you want someone let's use another member of

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the Phoenix Suns. Like on the Devin Booker age timeline,

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they're under their preferably you'd want them even younger. But

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those guys, unless you're a big believer in LaMelo ball,

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becoming available, like, they don't really become available at that

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unless you're being run by Nico Harrison apparently in the

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ideal age bracket. So I'm I think the Rockets are

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an envy in an enviable position because they're open to anything.

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But if you look at it through the like Kevin

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Durant's availability if you're Houston, is that someone just he's

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still great? I want to make that clear, but knowing

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how old he is, and then okay, yes, he'll presumably

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want to stay, but then also like he's wanted to

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leave places, yeah, somewhat quickly? Like does that like how

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I guess we I sometimes like we exaggerate the importance

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of players on their timelines. But how much does it

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matter in this case with Houston if you're looking at it, oh,

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Kevin Durant going into you know, age thirty six, age

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thirty seven campaigns, I think.

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Speaker 2: It matters a lot, and it shouldn't. It doesn't normally,

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but this is kind of an extreme case because of

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the just Durant is what is what is Durant? I

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mean he's been great this like there's just no getting

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around it. So like he'll probably be great next year

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and maybe the year after that. I don't know, but

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I would if it's me, I'd rather have LaMelo, you know,

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just if you got to choose which of the two

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to bring in all things being equal, I don't know

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who would cost more. Actually, that's an interesting question. I'd

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rather have the younger guy that can just make just

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makes more sense in the timeline. Although I would grant

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you like we do overblow like the importance of that.

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I want to ask you, like, what percentage chance do

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you think Fred van Fleet is on the team next year?

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Speaker 1: That's that's funny. I had the same question. I had

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a similar question to you, to say, what do you

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make of their intentions if they decline versus if they

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pick up that team option. So if you if you're

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planning on keeping Fred van Fleet, do you think it

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makes more sense to decline the team option and try

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and work out a smaller salary so that if you're

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building a mid season trade, it's just easier to work

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while stacking on top of others. And then if you're

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not planning on keeping him, doesn't it make sense to

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pick up the team option and see if you could

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use him as that primary salary anchor that so, so

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the signifier for me would be if they pick up

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fred van Fleet's team option, I will take that as

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evidence that they are going to make a pretty big

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trade and that's not just like and if they decline

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his team option, I will just assume that is because

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they're not talking about like trying to carve out a

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bunch of cap space then and go poach free agent X.

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So I would take that out design. Okay, they don't

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know what's going to happen, and they're letting its spill

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into the middle of next year.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree. I think if he is back, it

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will be on a three year, ninety million dollar deal

246
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or you know, something like that, maybe a two plus one.

247
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If I'm Houston, I'm I really don't want like a

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long term commitment here. And if he is, if they do,

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just pick it up, like you don't. I don't think

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you do that for any reason other than you intend

251
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to move him. I think like that just seems like

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the most logical And the reason I made me think

253
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of that is when you know, I agree, it does

254
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make sense for them to see what happens in the playoffs.

255
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But what if what happens in the playoffs is van

256
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Fleet is just good enough as the like driver of

257
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offense to win them I don't know, to make them

258
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maybe not a conference finals thing, but it's like it's

259
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clear that he's very important and he helps them get

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to game seven in the second round or something like that,

261
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Like how much is that actually good? Because you didn't

262
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really learn anything new about van Fleet, Like that's kind

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of the level you viewed him as being at and

264
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now you know what I mean, Like it would be

265
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if he just was terrible in the playoffs, it would

266
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almost make your thinking, make your planning and decision making easier,

267
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because it's like, Okay, he's not the guy, we need

268
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to use him to get the guy. But if he's

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like just pretty good, it leaves you in the position of, okay,

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well maybe we can you know, like you more indecision

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creeps in if he's just you know, good enough.

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Speaker 1: See, and I don't think it would just because we

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know the trajectory of aging for smaller guards right for

274
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the most part, And so even if he's spectacular in

275
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the playoffs, you're best player, you win a playoff series,

276
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take it to game seven, to the semi finals. I

277
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think you look at it and say, hey, well this

278
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is fleeting to begin with. The bigger inflection point for

279
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me is what is the internal view of Reed Shepherd?

280
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Speaker 2: Oh well, well, I was gonna say before we get

281
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,200
to that, like thin, I think you're right about So

282
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when you're talking about let's see what happens in the playoffs,

283
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I think what we're really saying is like, how good

284
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do Thompson Shingoon Green? Who am I? Jabari Smith? Like?

285
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How good did they look? You know what I mean? Like,

286
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you're gonna get a lot more insight into what Houston

287
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may or may not do over the summer in terms

288
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of changing the roster based on how they look. As

289
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opposed to van Fleet. It almost doesn't matter, like what

290
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van Fleet does because he's a known commodity and you

291
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have all the built in concerns about his agent curve.

292
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So like those guys are the ones that will like

293
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if if Thompson is suddenly like I don't know, he

294
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shoots thirty eight percent from three, or like he just

295
00:14:01,039 --> 00:14:04,240
runs the offense really well, that that would change things

296
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,879
more than van Like literally anything van Fleet could do.

297
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I think.

298
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Speaker 1: I think if van Fleet is terrible, it might increase

299
00:14:10,159 --> 00:14:13,000
the urgency with which they operate over the offseason because

300
00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:16,799
during his absence twenty eighth and a half court efficiency

301
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,919
and so like. If that, then if he's playing during

302
00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:23,200
the postseason and like, those struggles are still persisting, It's

303
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,279
almost like Fred van Fleet might do more to impact

304
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,360
Houston's future if he's bad or the offense is really

305
00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:32,720
bad in the playoffs versus like the young guys matter

306
00:14:32,799 --> 00:14:34,480
more than anything. But I would just be curre if, like,

307
00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:37,440
if Fred van Fleet is okay or really good and

308
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,399
you have an encouraging playoff picture, I don't think that

309
00:14:40,559 --> 00:14:42,360
we kind of saw this with the Calves this year.

310
00:14:42,679 --> 00:14:44,399
There is value at the trade deadline they went and

311
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,279
got de Andandre Hunter, even though they've been rolling the

312
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,759
entire year. There's still value in trying to build on

313
00:14:48,799 --> 00:14:51,320
a good thing and taking swings. But that would then

314
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,639
circle back to the question. My inflection point would be, well,

315
00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:56,559
what is the internal evaluation of Reed Shepherd not just

316
00:14:56,559 --> 00:15:00,200
the player he's gonna be year five, year six, a

317
00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:03,000
year two, because this team is young and also operating

318
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,240
like within an immediate window as well.

319
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's related. Like if again that that

320
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:10,840
first start of the year and he goes for twenty

321
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,279
five and looks good, and km Whitmore goes for twenty

322
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,240
seven and looks good, It's just like, I think we

323
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,519
got to start peeling off the vets here and just

324
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,960
kind of see what's underneath if we let the younger

325
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,000
guys play. Yeah, Van Fleet is bad, you still you

326
00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:26,519
need to have a pretty strong belief in Reaed Shepherd

327
00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:29,600
at least being a rotation guy like regularly next year

328
00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:32,360
to move on from him. And then if you think

329
00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:35,320
more of Shephard than that, like why are you trading

330
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,799
for LaMelo or somebody like that because you just think, well,

331
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:41,480
maybe Shephard can be not LaMelo but a good starter

332
00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:44,320
like that's I mean, he's drafted third. Overall, you better

333
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,000
still believe that about him.

334
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,480
Speaker 1: I'll pose it to you this way. Do you think

335
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,639
that they will wind up acquiring a new player who

336
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,799
cracks their closing line up next season?

337
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Speaker 2: I think so, And I think they'll do it by

338
00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:04,039
moving van Fleet after picking up that option. I think

339
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,279
I think that's because really like that doesn't you still

340
00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:09,679
got a long runway with Shepherd. So if you go

341
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:11,440
get the guy that you know, you kind of bring

342
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,840
in ahead of him. If it's we just keep using

343
00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:17,039
LaMelo because I don't have any other great examples that

344
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,279
really strike me as interesting.

345
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:22,279
Speaker 1: Name anybody, Dallas Dallas is proof that it's valid name

346
00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:27,519
name whatever you want, step.

347
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:29,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, Darius Garland, just bring him in. Uh yeah, I

348
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,639
think I think so. I don't know what the percentage

349
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,480
chance I put on it. That's why I was asking you,

350
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,279
because if van Fleet's gone you traded him for for

351
00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:38,919
the guy you're talking about, that cracks the closing five

352
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,559
probably and it's like fifty one forty nine though probably

353
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,639
in my estimation, where are you.

354
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Speaker 1: I'd probably be. I think I think it's I think

355
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:51,840
I'm a little bit higher on like they're gonna go

356
00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:54,759
get somebody like something with Phoenix just feels too obvious

357
00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:56,960
to like it just feels like Kevin rand or Devin

358
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:57,799
Booker is going to be.

359
00:16:57,759 --> 00:16:58,679
Speaker 2: On the next year.

360
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Speaker 1: But I will say, do you know what would be

361
00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:03,000
the gutsiest move? And I wouldn't hate it to be clear,

362
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,119
you get rid of Fred van Fleet and it's just

363
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,720
the right Reed Shepherd's coming in, like you're just running

364
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,599
it forward with these young guys.

365
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,799
Speaker 2: In that scenario, Are you just declining the team option.

366
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 1: Unless you could bring because is he gonna want to

367
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,359
come off the bench for you, because you're not going

368
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,400
to demote Jalen Green and then start Van Fleet. I

369
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,200
guess you could bring Jalen Green off the bench. But

370
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,839
if you decide that Reed Shepherd is now the guy

371
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,799
that you're going to start, my guess would be that Fred.

372
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 2: Van Fleet is leaving right you would, yeah, and you

373
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,000
would trade him for something, and then maybe you're if

374
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,559
you're trading a forty million dollar contract like you're bringing.

375
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,960
If you were doing that, I was thinking that they

376
00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:39,960
declined Fred van Fleet's team option and you're saying, don't

377
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,920
let him go for nothing?

378
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,160
Speaker 1: Is the type deal.

379
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,200
Speaker 2: That's such a crazy I mean, I guess they could,

380
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,400
but that that just doesn't seem to happen anymore where

381
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,720
you just decline an option on a really good player

382
00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:52,680
just because you know, I don't know, we maybe moved

383
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,480
past the whole preserve of the asset mode of thinking.

384
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,799
But I don't know that would be a big example

385
00:17:57,839 --> 00:17:58,720
of going the other way.

386
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:01,799
Speaker 1: Do they do something like they flip Fred Van, they

387
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:03,640
pick up the team option, and let's say you flip

388
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,720
them to Detroit and you're taking back Tobias Harris's salary

389
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,799
and so now you've rolled over that into a smaller

390
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,319
salary slot for a less valuable player that you're using

391
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,680
as a That's just the off the cuff example. I'm

392
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,720
not campaigning for a Tobias Harris Fred Van Fleet like swap.

393
00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:19,640
Speaker 2: That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm hearing is you

394
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,880
want him to come in and play over Jabari Smith.

395
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:22,839
That's what I'm taking away.

396
00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:29,039
Speaker 1: Next team, the Minnesota Timberwolves. This is we might be

397
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,559
talking about them anyway, but I think it says a

398
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:34,519
great deal that they tried to enter the Kevin Durant

399
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:38,519
sweepstakes at the trade deadline per the Athletic. What about you, Yeah,

400
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,240
I mean it, I do.

401
00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:46,839
Speaker 2: I did appreciate we got like just the faintest explanation

402
00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:49,519
or answer to our question of like, so, but how

403
00:18:50,279 --> 00:18:52,480
because that never made sense, like how are they what

404
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:54,759
are they doing to on board Kevin Durant. It was

405
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:57,119
basically like they would trade a bunch of other players

406
00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,119
away to clear room so they could then aggregate. And

407
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,640
it was like, okay, so this really did.

408
00:19:01,559 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 1: Not get Yeah, that's totally easy to do in the

409
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,559
middle of the season, right right.

410
00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:09,599
Speaker 2: It happens all the time. No, I do think. I mean,

411
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:13,680
at the same time, we both and we both like

412
00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:18,240
everybody knows that some form of like mini reckoning is

413
00:19:18,279 --> 00:19:20,440
coming for them, whether it involves Durant and a big

414
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,519
trade or not, just because of the free agencies that

415
00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:26,920
are staring them down. They're staring down the barrel of

416
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,400
and Julius Randall's player option and how those things interact,

417
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,519
right Like, so whether it's a big trade or not,

418
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,839
like things are gonna something's gonna give here the summer

419
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:37,640
one way or the other.

420
00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm I think a lot of it will

421
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,200
depend on what happens in the postseason. Of course. I

422
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,240
just wonder if you're them, are you hoping that Julius

423
00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:52,079
Randall picks up this player option You're hoping he opts out,

424
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,160
like what is the you're the Wolves. We know probably

425
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,319
what Mark Loray and al Trodriguez are like from a financials,

426
00:19:58,319 --> 00:19:59,680
but they'd rather him just opt out and they could

427
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,480
probably them leave. They'll pay naz Reid, maybe they keep Naw.

428
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:06,519
But what it does feel like that if you want

429
00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:09,839
to make a trade, like a bigger trade, you want

430
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,559
Julius Randall to opt in, because then there's that thirty

431
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:16,519
million dollar expiring contract to use as the anchor around

432
00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:18,039
which then you flesh out the package.

433
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is sort of like the Van Vleet

434
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:23,680
situation in Houston, and also not like it at all,

435
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,640
because one's a player option and one's a team option.

436
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:28,839
So my first thought is I would want him to

437
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,960
opt out because then you have a pathway towards keeping

438
00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:35,880
noz Reed and Nikhil Alexander Walker and staying under the

439
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:36,559
second apron.

440
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,079
Speaker 1: I think.

441
00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 2: I think that's the the quick and dirty math is

442
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:41,599
like if if Randall ops in, you might get one.

443
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,119
The other one's probably gone and you're gonna be dealing

444
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,839
with like some gnarly constraints. If he leaves, then you

445
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,960
probably can keep both. I'd just rather keep both Alexander

446
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,640
Walker and Read if I can, and.

447
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: Just as to paint a picture. So they enter. Let's

448
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,680
assume with Julius Randall's thirty point nine million dollar player option,

449
00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:03,960
and with nos Reed's fifteen million dollar player option, they're

450
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:06,400
like they have twelve twelve point eight million under the

451
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,799
second apron and they're basically like right at the first apron.

452
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,680
That's again assuming that those are like that nos Reed

453
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,000
and Julius Randa would opt in, which I think a

454
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,359
lot of people expect nos Reed topped out, which maybe

455
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,240
he does. But what I would caution with the nos

456
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:23,400
Reid situation is I think he makes a sense on

457
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,319
a bunch of teams, But I feel like we go

458
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:26,920
through this a lot of the times with big men

459
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,799
and maybe it only takes one. Is always kind of

460
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,880
the saying he's about at he's close to the non

461
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,079
tax payer mid level next year at fifteen, and it's

462
00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:36,519
going up to fourteen point one. I don't necessarily know

463
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:39,640
that there are going to be teams like those types

464
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,680
of players. To me, always feels like they're more likely

465
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,599
if their team has their bird rights, they're gonna get

466
00:21:43,599 --> 00:21:45,039
paid by their their.

467
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I just look at him

468
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,839
as like the other side of that coin is he's

469
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,319
not a fifteen million dollar player, you know, like he

470
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,200
just objectively, is a better player than that, And if

471
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,440
his representation is canvassing the league, it wouldn't be crazy

472
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,240
to me if somebody out there was like, if you

473
00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:04,759
hit free agency, we're going to find a way to

474
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:06,880
give you twenty or twenty five a year he.

475
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,079
Speaker 1: Gets like the Hartenstein deal where it's the two plus

476
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:10,519
the team option on three. Maybe.

477
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's part of it. The other side of

478
00:22:13,319 --> 00:22:15,680
it is, like you said, and this is the more

479
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,240
direct parallel to Van Vleet, is like, well, if Randall

480
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,319
ops in, then you've got a thirty one million, thirty

481
00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:25,799
point nine million dollar chunk of salary that's expiring to move.

482
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,839
The counter to that is, if he opts in, it's

483
00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:32,359
a pretty good indication that he's not desired at that

484
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,079
number around the league. So, like, how tradable is he really?

485
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,079
And are you able to net like positive value in

486
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,440
a deal where he's the main outgoing salary without throwing

487
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,720
in Not that the Wolves are you know, exactly like

488
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,200
flush with picks, but like without having to throw in

489
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,000
stuff you'd prefer not to. Uh So it's it's a

490
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,039
real tricky thing. I Well, so I would say I

491
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,160
want him to opt out because I then I just

492
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,319
get to have more control over keeping the two other

493
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,920
guys I care more about. Wuld you rather he opt

494
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,000
out or opt in? And so you could trade him.

495
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm just trying so when I'm looking at who they

496
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:10,480
might get, it's almost like what I think, I'd rather

497
00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:13,440
him opt out. Because let's say you go after Kevin Durant.

498
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,039
Do you think that Phoenix, knowing that you don't have

499
00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:19,480
a ton of draft equity to include, it'll be somewhat.

500
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:21,640
First of all, let me ask you this question, would

501
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,640
you do? So I'm gonna assume that you'll you have

502
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,160
to include whoever you draft with that Pistons first round pick?

503
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,559
Would you include that Pistons first round pick Rob Dillingham

504
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,960
and then either Nas reader Jaden McDaniels and a Kevin

505
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,680
Durant trade. If you're Minnesota, there'd have to be more salary,

506
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,880
and that's where Julius Randall perhaps comes in handy. But

507
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,839
is that something you're doing? So what am I.

508
00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:45,319
Speaker 2: Left with in that hypothetical? I still have Conlee de

509
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,799
Vincenzo Edwards.

510
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: Well do you have Conley? He's a free agent. I

511
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,799
guess you could resign him, though YE.

512
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 2: Doesn't he have one more year at ten million? Or

513
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,279
is he expiring? Did I have Did I look at

514
00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:55,799
the wrong thing?

515
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I look at the wrong thing. Well you

516
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:01,359
are correct, another year left? I apologize.

517
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 2: Okay. So I mean, and then what does it mean

518
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,960
if you have Conley and what is it h thirty

519
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:06,559
nine season?

520
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: I don't know.

521
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,519
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think, like, who's still around? And

522
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,519
so I've got to lose probably either McDaniels or read

523
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,480
for Durant. So basically your cores go Bart Edwards, Durant,

524
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,200
de Vincenzo. Maybe Noa's still there, Terrence Shannon's been really

525
00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:25,480
good lately. I think I probably do it because it's

526
00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:30,400
just the kind of you're trading. You're just getting the floor,

527
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,200
just the biggest name, the biggest star there, and maybe

528
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,200
that's what Minnesota needs more than like a bunch of

529
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,240
guys that don't fit great together. It's not an easy call,

530
00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:39,680
but I think I probably do it.

531
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: I think in a vacuum you want Randall then to

532
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:44,880
opt in to keep the kill. I think it just

533
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,519
makes it easier. You might need to rope in a

534
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:49,359
third team to where someone else is taking on money,

535
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,079
depending on what Phoenix financial situation is looking like after

536
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,640
this deal. But if you're going after someone who's making

537
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000
as much as Durant, and I think even if you're not,

538
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,480
I guess you probably I default to you want Randall

539
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,200
to opt in to have that expiring chip. But when

540
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,000
you don't have a ton of touch stuff to attach

541
00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:10,599
in Dick equity, the value going out becomes the players.

542
00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:13,319
And so if you're Minnesota, it's let's say you need

543
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:15,799
to trade. I don't know what the salary player is.

544
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:17,960
But if you're trading McDaniels or nas Reed is just

545
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,759
the primary anchor and a deal, what is still having

546
00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:25,160
Julius Randall actually do for you like Julius Randall, plus

547
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,240
that pistons pick get you who. So if you're really

548
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:31,799
trying to go in on a star who's looking on

549
00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:33,920
his way out, and you know that you're gonna get them,

550
00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:36,400
I'll say at a discounted rate relative to what they're

551
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,319
worth on the court, because they're older, or they want

552
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:40,799
to come to you and play with aunt whatever, you

553
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,920
probably want Julius Randall to opt in. But if you're

554
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:49,240
targeting just rotational upgrades that are making less than Julius Randall,

555
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:51,480
or like, I don't know that you want as Minnesota.

556
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:52,960
I don't know that. And Julius Rondlu, by the way,

557
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,839
has not been terrible this year. I just don't think

558
00:25:54,839 --> 00:25:58,319
that he's a fit for this roster moving forward. I

559
00:25:58,319 --> 00:25:59,920
guess you could say you want to roll over this

560
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,240
salary slot, but then you need to believe that again

561
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:06,519
that what you have. Basically, I would say that pissed

562
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:09,400
it because if you attach Rob Dillingham to Julius Randall,

563
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,759
you better hope you're like really like that's the Kevin

564
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:14,319
Durant type of scenario. You better hope you're getting someone

565
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,359
really good because Dillingham is supposed to be a huge

566
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,960
part of your long term And so that's where I'm

567
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,519
talking to myself in a circle. But that's where I'm

568
00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:23,240
struggling with the Julius Randall element of it all.

569
00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: It's a really it's really hard. I think it's not

570
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:30,079
clear that that I think at the bottom of it,

571
00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:33,759
it's not clear that he at thirty point nine million

572
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:39,000
dollars in expiring salary is actually like a positive asset,

573
00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:41,519
like as far as you know, I guess, if it

574
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,880
keeps you from having to give up more guys in

575
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,279
a in a two or three for one kind of trade,

576
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:48,839
then maybe that's valuable. But I think the stuff you

577
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,519
have to add into the deal because it's Randal and

578
00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:54,240
he's not super desirable because look, the fit issues are

579
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,160
going to follow him wherever he goes, Like he's kind

580
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,680
of defined by fit issues, like that's just what his

581
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,279
game has been. So maybe maybe that means you're having

582
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:05,519
to give up more young pieces that you don't want

583
00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:08,599
to because he's the main It's just it's a thorny thing.

584
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:10,440
I really don't know. That's why I'm almost like, if

585
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,119
he just opts out, I don't have to worry about it.

586
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,440
If I'm the Wolves, you know, I don't have to

587
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:14,319
think about it anymore.

588
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,799
Speaker 1: Well do you consider doing and this would matter more

589
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,640
for mid season purposes, but like bring him back at

590
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,279
three years for sixty million?

591
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I just I'm mostly I've just

592
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,200
been low on Randal as like a clean fit on

593
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,839
a good team for a long time. I just I

594
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,079
think maybe that's too simple, but that's where I'd be

595
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:34,400
on it.

596
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,799
Speaker 1: I do think that regardless of what kind of happens

597
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:40,720
with Randal, I would expect them to do something semi

598
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:43,160
significant if they get bounced in the first round or

599
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:43,680
the play in.

600
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just the fact that they're where they're

601
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,920
going to be entering the playoffs this year versus last year,

602
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,680
like suggests that changes are coming.

603
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,599
Speaker 1: Our next team on the docket is the Philadelpia seventy six.

604
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,759
There is underwent some changes last year. But well, I

605
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:05,920
I mean, it's interesting because there's a chance that they

606
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,039
just don't do It's they maybe they keep their own

607
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,880
pick and then they just roll forward that But I

608
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,319
would think just given the timeline, if you assumeing Beid's

609
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:16,039
gonna be healthy next year and you know you're not

610
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:19,039
gonna move him, you're almost obligated to continue exploring what

611
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,920
can you get for these as like the first round

612
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,720
picks that you have. But do you see a scenario

613
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,319
in which they go the other way if let's say

614
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,480
they do keep their own pick, which I think so

615
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,759
I was breaking down the numbers on just like what

616
00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:34,279
are the odds that they're keeping their pick and it

617
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:37,319
looks like they'll fall in the they could maybe get

618
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,200
to the fifth worst record, in which case they would

619
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,680
have a sixty four percent chance. I believe of keeping

620
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,920
their pick if they stay where they are, it's like

621
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,440
a forty percent chance or forty six.

622
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,839
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, forty six.

623
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: But then if you you know, because they're involved with

624
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,319
the nets and the the bulls as well, like, you

625
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,680
could also just see them drop to thirty four point

626
00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:59,240
five percent chance of keeping their pick or even lower

627
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:01,359
than that. But I didn't mean to get us hung

628
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,240
up on those details. If they do keep their own pick,

629
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,000
do you see any scenario which is, well, let's just

630
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,400
can we get anything for Embiid, get anything for Paul George,

631
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,240
and we'll we'll take the long view with Jared McCain

632
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:13,720
this pick and a tire's Maxie.

633
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like a Daryl Morey approach because it

634
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,119
just history suggests that he will try to turn it,

635
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:30,480
won't just go Maxie and young guys and picks, like

636
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:32,960
I don't. I feel like he'll be on the hunt

637
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,920
for like, well, who's someone out there? The championship equity thing, like,

638
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,799
who's someone out there we could turn embiid in the

639
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:41,680
pick into that gives us a real, you know, decent

640
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,920
crack at it, like and also like, you know, even

641
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,599
if I just like, where what do they where can

642
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,200
they send Embiid that's gonna bring? Like what do you

643
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,720
get for Joel Embiid, Like I don't. I have no idea,

644
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,920
like what the pick and player packages coming back for

645
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,640
him would be right now? And like, so there obviously

646
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,000
stuff has to change, I think because I'm so hung

647
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:13,680
up on Like I just don't think there's any way

648
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,839
to get to gauge what Embid is worth. And I

649
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,680
don't think there's a haul out there for him, Like

650
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,839
that's the only thing I am fairly certain of at

651
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:24,200
the moment. As you're not getting the four unprotected firsts

652
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,799
and whatever coming back, it's just gonna have to be

653
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,160
remaking the supporting cast again, like Yabuseles a free agent.

654
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:37,480
Uber and Drummond and Gordon you know aren't all super important,

655
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:39,920
but they have player options. I don't think you can

656
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,519
trade Paul George for value, So you're just I think

657
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:44,799
this team will look different, but it will be the

658
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,680
supporting cast again. I just think that seems like the

659
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,119
most likely set of changes to me. Do you agree

660
00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:51,880
because I just don't, or do you see, Like how

661
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,319
do you get how do you flip Embiid and or

662
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:58,079
George for like anything. I just don't know what's out there.

663
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: I would be I think someone would give you, let's

664
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,119
say that over under on one point five first round

665
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,200
picks you'd get for Joel and Beat over the offseason

666
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:16,640
if he moved him. I think it's now I will

667
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,440
let's throw this number out there. He is owed two

668
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,319
hundred and forty eight point one million dollars over the

669
00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:22,400
next four years with zero injury protections.

670
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: That's why that that's why I think I lean. I

671
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:27,880
lean first of all, like they can't trade him at all,

672
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,839
so I guess I have to go under. Uh, just

673
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:33,440
because who's who's taking that on now? If you said

674
00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:35,640
a year from now and like maybe at this point

675
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,799
in twenty twenty six and Beat has played sixty games

676
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:40,960
already or whatever, I mean, that's a lot. If they

677
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,440
say he's played fifty games and looks not an MVP,

678
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,000
but is you know, fringy all NBA? Okay, maybe, but

679
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:49,559
like right now, with all the uncertainty, like we don't

680
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:51,400
even know what kind of surgery he's gonna have, Like

681
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,039
what team out there over the summer, with no real

682
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,440
visibility into how he's recovering, is gonna give up anything

683
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,319
for him with all that money on the deal.

684
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,119
Speaker 1: I just feel like there's always a team. I'm just

685
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,200
I'm just gonna.

686
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: Go over taking the field I'm saying impossible. So I

687
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:07,759
like your odds, but.

688
00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:10,279
Speaker 1: Still I just one point five first round picks is

689
00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:12,279
kind of such a low bar to clear, especially if

690
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:15,119
one of them isn't great or the equivalent. So I'll

691
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,200
go over. But that is I mean, there's a chance

692
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:20,200
because of the player he could still be. I think

693
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,039
you'd still put Oh, like Bradley, Pe'll have you. No

694
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:24,240
trade clause is worse. That just might be one of

695
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:26,559
the worst contracts in the NBA. What I do think

696
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:29,359
is not more fascinating but also fascinating is if you

697
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,480
were to move Paul George three years left on his

698
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:36,039
max deal, are you getting first round equity for And

699
00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:38,799
it's not. Look Paul George has his best year, But

700
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:40,839
like I think Paul George can still be a useful player,

701
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,799
and it's more scalable than a lot of other well

702
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:44,519
at least in theory than a lot of other stars.

703
00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:48,440
He's willing to take podcast hiatus to contribute to championship pushes.

704
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,960
I think that might peak the attention of some contenders.

705
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: No, at least he has his priorities, right, I don't know, Like,

706
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,400
don't you feel like Paul George is like dangerously close

707
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,680
to being some that like you're paying to get off of.

708
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:07,359
I mean it's like given his age, given the it's

709
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,119
some injuries every year, declining production, Like I just I don't.

710
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:15,799
And I think the other aspect of this is all

711
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:18,400
the second Apron stuff and all the new CBA stuff,

712
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:23,799
and in conjunction with like looking at how stuck Phoenix

713
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,519
is granted beelds no trade clause is a huge part

714
00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:29,200
of that, and the looming specter in Boston of like

715
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,960
what do we when do we break this up? Because

716
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,880
it costs, Like I think a contract like George's, even

717
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,240
if he's like a solid starter teams are like I

718
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,160
don't want that, Like we can't build a real team

719
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,640
anymore if we have a guy making the max that

720
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:44,599
either isn't healthy or isn't like a clear superstar.

721
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: So if you were let's just say you were Brooklyn,

722
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:50,279
if the Sixers just offered to put Paul George into

723
00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:51,599
your cap space, you wouldn't do it.

724
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: Well, that's different than like getting positive stuff back, Like

725
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,160
if I'm Brooklyn. I do that because I want the

726
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,039
pixel you were.

727
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,559
Speaker 1: Saying, he's dangerously close having to include things to get off.

728
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:02,240
So I'm asking, what.

729
00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:05,759
Speaker 2: Is I see? Well, Brooklyn's a pretty good exception to that.

730
00:34:05,839 --> 00:34:08,880
I think in general, if I'm the point I'm trying

731
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,159
to make poorly is that I think, like all things

732
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,400
being equal, George is not necessary. George is close to

733
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,440
being someone that I don't think you get positive value

734
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,480
for in a trade. But if you're dumping him somewhere

735
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,840
and attaching picks and that team doesn't care about like

736
00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:29,320
what a ridiculous disconnector is between his salary and his production,

737
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,360
then that's different. But like, if you're Brooklyn, the only

738
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,280
reason you want Paul George is because you might get

739
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,679
picks attached to him, right, Like that's that's that's a

740
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:40,840
different kind of acquisition.

741
00:34:41,559 --> 00:34:45,079
Speaker 1: I still think that maybe I'm just if I entered

742
00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:47,320
my era of just like, oh, these are the players

743
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,079
that I kind of grew up on, and so I

744
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:50,760
just assume they're still gonna be good round, Like I

745
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,000
give up a first round pick for George or is

746
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:55,679
it even like I'm not saying I give him a

747
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,960
first round pick here. But if you were Detroit and

748
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,320
there's like to buy Harris and like you're just feeling

749
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,000
like you're not giving up, Like, what would you do

750
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:08,039
Tobias Harris and Ron Holland for Paul George If you're

751
00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:10,559
Detroit and he wants to be in Detroit, Let's say.

752
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,159
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I think you probably have to do that.

753
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,639
But like Harris is a bad contract, so it's inspiring.

754
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: It'd be funny to see him back in Philly though.

755
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, no, I think maybe I've gone too

756
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,960
harsh on it, but I just I I in trying

757
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,519
to think about how the Sixers might remake themselves. I struggle. So, like,

758
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,360
if you're the Sixers, do you have any interest in

759
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:39,719
getting Tobias Harris and Ron Holland for Paul George.

760
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,079
Speaker 1: Only if you're looking to get if you think his contract, well,

761
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,760
let's say you could win the draft lottery have Cooper

762
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,119
flag And to say, okay, like this is all of

763
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:50,119
a sudden, a wholesale reset, I do think failing that

764
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:52,920
what you said at the top of the Sixers part

765
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,519
is I mean, I mean you also have to consider

766
00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:57,840
that there we're not just talking about this, Okay, see

767
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,400
pick commitment, so like that could spill it to if

768
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,079
they keep their pick, that then just spills into next

769
00:36:03,159 --> 00:36:05,760
year and is loosely protected. They also owe that pick

770
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,760
to Brooklyn in twenty twenty seven, so they're almost obligated

771
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,079
to continue going for it. I don't think you can

772
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,360
map out a path where you're still trying to be

773
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,840
competitive and you're trading Joelle Embiid, that's for sure, because

774
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:21,559
I guess it comes down to if you think he's

775
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,079
never gonna play again, but I haven't seen something nap

776
00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:26,400
leak out there, You're not gonna get rid of Maxie

777
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:27,880
in that case, And so then it comes down to

778
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,199
could you attach things? Could you attach stuff to Paul

779
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,199
George and enter the Kevin Durant sweep stakes? Does that

780
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,079
do anything for you? I don't think you would have enough,

781
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,239
is Paul George. Like I'm trying to think of what

782
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,960
would be the next disgruntled player, Like if Phoenix made

783
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:46,239
Devin Booker available, and there for some reason, keeping Kevin

784
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,159
Durant like Paul George and the picks you have aren't

785
00:36:48,159 --> 00:36:50,719
gonna get you Devin Booker probably, So I don't even

786
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,880
know how you upgrade my point would be, how do

787
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,079
you put yourself in a better situation by trading Paul George.

788
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's the thing. It's like EMBIID where

789
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,239
you are just sort of stuck and you got to

790
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,880
see if this thing works next year and you build

791
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,760
around the margins, you just you know, continue rebuilding the

792
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,159
supporting cast year over year.

793
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: One thing I kind of thought of. I don't think

794
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,039
Sacramento would necessarily be involved in this, but like, if

795
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:16,679
would you rather have as the Sixers, would you still

796
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,559
rather have Paul George over Zach Lavine?

797
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,119
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, if I'm the Kings, I would definitely rather

798
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,760
have George than Levine. So I guess there's that's putting

799
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,840
the lie in my all in Sacramento for the most part,

800
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,280
I don't know. Yeah, I just they got enough guys

801
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,400
that can score and not make good decisions. I think.

802
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,960
I think if I'm the Sixers, I don't love I

803
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,800
don't love MAXI McCain Levine as my defensive like one

804
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,880
to two combos, It's yeah, I don't know. That's a

805
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,320
tough one.

806
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: I have another one too. This I'm just throwing out

807
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,239
these up. Paul George or Brandon Ingram substantially.

808
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: Younger than Paul and cheaper, I guess.

809
00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:06,199
Speaker 1: And to that end, if you were Toronto, which you could,

810
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,679
like if if the Sixers were just like, we will

811
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:10,880
give you Paul George and the Quippers pick for brandon

812
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,119
Ingram or something, you pounce on that, right, I.

813
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: Think so, yeah, I think I think you you would

814
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:16,719
because at.

815
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: That point, I think even if brand Ingram's an upgrade,

816
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,440
you're the Sixers, you're saying, no, like, what are we

817
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:23,000
kind of doing here? That's the spot they're in. I

818
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,159
think you phrased it this way, right. You think it's

819
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:27,639
gonna happen with the supporting cast where maybe they end

820
00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:30,519
up getting someone who's a part of their closing lineup,

821
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,079
but it's gonna be replacing, like, not any member of

822
00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:35,920
the Big Three. It's gonna be like kind of filling

823
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:36,320
that out.

824
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: Kelly Ubrey gets, you know, replaced by somebody that's in

825
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:40,360
that range.

826
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,079
Speaker 1: Maybe I would be curious, though, how good of a

827
00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:47,239
player they could get with the assets they have independent

828
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,280
of the Big Three, because they have picks. If they

829
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,119
keep this year's pick. We haven't even thought about that.

830
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:53,519
If you keep this year's pick and you have a

831
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:56,039
top six selection. You attach that to some of the

832
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:57,719
other money on your books. You have other picture of

833
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,559
Jared McCain now getting to salary and then working within

834
00:39:02,599 --> 00:39:05,320
the Aprons could maybe get difficult, but that's just like

835
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,199
a real you're not I don't know that you're winning

836
00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:11,000
any sweep stakes, especially with the salary matching limitations, but

837
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:13,239
you could in fury do something splashy there.

838
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,639
Speaker 2: That's you know, that is an interesting point though, Like

839
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,920
they're extremely top heavy salary wise, and so the only

840
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,000
the fourth so you take out so next year fifty

841
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:27,119
five for MBID, fifty two for Paul George, thirty eight

842
00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:31,440
for MAXI. The next biggest salary that's that is guaranteed

843
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,039
to be on the books barring a trade is McCain

844
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:36,719
at four point two million. Like that's just like the

845
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,679
gap between so their mid tier salaries is like don't exist.

846
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,199
They don't they don't have anybody.

847
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: You almost have to pick up unless you're really worried

848
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,039
about Apron space. But I think as of now they're

849
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,360
projected to be eighteen point six million beneath the first Apron.

850
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:52,800
Like you almost have to kelly your bridge when you're

851
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,719
staying on this team because or it's a play. Is

852
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:56,480
his a player option?

853
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, to leave you can decline it though,

854
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,239
And they got some worked out where it's like three

855
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,679
three for forty five or so, you know, something like that.

856
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,639
Speaker 1: So they might even be in a situation where they're

857
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:07,639
going to do anything. We looked at it like they

858
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:09,960
were overturning their roster a lot la saw season. It's oh,

859
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,920
it'll happen in the middle of the season when these

860
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,320
contracts they either just signed or renegotiated after a player

861
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,440
opt out are then eligible to be traded.

862
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they're in a weird spot. I mean, for

863
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:21,920
every possible reason.

864
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: The next team, the Phoenix Suns. Grant I there were

865
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,159
Sham's just saying that Kevin Durant and the Sons are

866
00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:34,000
going to work together finding human trade kind of guarantees

867
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:36,039
that they're going to look a lot different next year.

868
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. They might have a new coach. That

869
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:41,800
might be another thing. Although if Durance, well, if Durance gone,

870
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:42,679
books are still there.

871
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,559
Speaker 1: Colin CASEPTI made it very clear that he's trying to

872
00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:49,679
save Mike Wuinnenholzer's job. Sorry.

873
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:54,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like we I don't know, do you want

874
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:57,440
to do the like, where does Durant make sense right now?

875
00:40:57,559 --> 00:40:59,639
Speaker 1: I mean I did it with mort and we talked

876
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:01,400
about a little bit with the Rockets. Is there any

877
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,559
team that stands out as they should be in on Actually?

878
00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:07,079
Can I ask you this? I did talk about it

879
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:11,199
with moret but forget the other moving parts involved. But

880
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,239
if it's a one for one Jimmy Butler for Kevin

881
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,239
Durant swap sort of set up, are you doing that

882
00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:17,320
as the Warriors?

883
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,519
Speaker 2: Man? I think Durant is still a better player, But whatever,

884
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,599
whatever is happening because Jimmy Butler is there is like

885
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,880
kind of real and and he hasn't even been that

886
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,239
good honestly, Like he's I've thought caught myself thinking he

887
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,719
looks hurt or he's just like not aggressive, won't look

888
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,559
at the basket, but he's still just.

889
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: Owning for jumpers. But like he's you've seen some of

890
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:43,320
like the like getting out and transit like off the

891
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,320
ball and like getting to the basket there. But then

892
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,760
it does feel like he's settling at points.

893
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it just which is to say, like maybe

894
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,639
he's gonna be even better, although like when you're thirty five,

895
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,760
that's always like a risky thing to assume.

896
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: They are grant. They're like a plus twenty five when

897
00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:00,679
he plays without Steph though, they're just that's there's like

898
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,360
weird magic, there's like fairy dust.

899
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. Like he just showed

900
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,280
up and sprinkled it on everybody, and somehow him being

901
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,760
there means everybody else plays better. Like I don't know,

902
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,519
maybe that's just the mark of a really great player.

903
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: I would still maybe aura is infectious and that's.

904
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: You know, what we're not accounting for is maybe this

905
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,280
is all because of Quinton Post and Jimmy Butler's got

906
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,239
nothing to do with it. Yeah, I don't know that

907
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:27,519
I would have like a, I would need some therapy,

908
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:29,559
I think to really give you a concrete answer on

909
00:42:29,639 --> 00:42:31,760
during I think I would lean like, yeah, like Durant better,

910
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,400
but then I would immediately regret it.

911
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: The most compelling argument I think for it is you

912
00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:40,559
believe that Jonathan Kaminga replaces enough of the foul drawing,

913
00:42:40,639 --> 00:42:43,719
rim pressure stuff from Jimmy Butler. Yeah, that's where then

914
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,199
his fit with Kevin Durant is just way more intuitive.

915
00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:49,559
But I would still need to I mean to know,

916
00:42:50,199 --> 00:42:52,559
but I think if Jonathan Minga comes back and shows

917
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:55,000
you that he can play an offense as part of

918
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,039
this larger ecosystem, but more importantly, that he's going to

919
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:00,480
be a real defensive body. Yeah, that when I would

920
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,480
look at it and okay, all right, Jonathan Aminga is

921
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:06,039
not Jimmy Butler. But can he approximate let's just say,

922
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,480
even seventy to eighty percent of Jimmy. But if you

923
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,960
believe he could do that, then I think that that

924
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,480
would be the compelling argument for me.

925
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:16,119
Speaker 2: Any Yeah, I mean, he's gonna he's gonna give you

926
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,559
zero percent of like the Butler and tangibles. But I'm

927
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:21,400
just glad to hear you say that Jonathan Kaminga is

928
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,199
the most important player on the Warriors. I'm glad you

929
00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:27,159
finally came around. What besides KDB. It's like Miami is

930
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:29,840
another KD one. That's like, okay, sure it could be that.

931
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:34,159
Speaker 1: Here isn't the real question. You're the Suns. Let's let's

932
00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:36,159
say Houston's off the table and you can't get your

933
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:40,000
own picks back. What are you then targeting into Kevin

934
00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:42,679
Durant trade? And based on the report, I mean, here

935
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:46,440
are a couple things. Does moving Kevin Durant make it

936
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,760
more likely that Bradley Beal will open the scope of

937
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,679
his no trade clause?

938
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:54,119
Speaker 2: I don't. I think the only thing that makes him

939
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,519
likelier to waive the no trade clause is just it

940
00:43:57,599 --> 00:43:59,920
not being the middle of the season. I don't think so,

941
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,960
so you know what I mean, like, oh, he's maybe

942
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,280
it won't up end his life as much if he

943
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,039
can do this in the offseason, like versus in February,

944
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:11,039
which he was like, I'm out. I don't think what

945
00:44:11,159 --> 00:44:16,039
happens with Durant changes a lot for Beale. I guess

946
00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:18,239
unless you're gonna say, like, well, if Durant's gone, then

947
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,119
the Sons aren't gonna win, so he's gonna want to leave. Well,

948
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:22,559
the Sun's aren't winning now and they were trying desperately

949
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:24,079
to trade him, and he didn't want to leave. So

950
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,239
I don't think that has a huge amount of sway.

951
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: And honestly, if he was gonna be more like it

952
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,360
to wave his no trade clause, you'd probably prefer to

953
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,079
Can we still figure out something to move him and

954
00:44:33,159 --> 00:44:37,559
keep Durant? The bigger question is all the reporting phn

955
00:44:37,679 --> 00:44:41,199
X Sports is Gerald borge I believe so that everything

956
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,960
he has heard is that Devin Booker doesn't want to leave,

957
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,840
the Sons will never trade him unless he asks route.

958
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,760
If you're Devin Booker and Kevin Durank gets traded infory,

959
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,559
aren't you more likely to then consider asking for out

960
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:57,079
unless you look at the return and say, I believe

961
00:44:57,559 --> 00:45:00,320
read it in the right direction, And then that the

962
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,719
question then becomes what does a better job of selling

963
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,239
Devin Booker on your future? Prioritizing picks, especially if they're

964
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,880
not your own, or is it no, we need to

965
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,480
get like real fucking talent in here where you're thinking,

966
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:18,320
let's use Minnesota as an example, like could Phoenix be

967
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,880
intrigued by well, let's try and get Go Bear, Like

968
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,039
would you do Go Bear and Jade McDaniels and then figure

969
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:24,280
out how to make the money work from there. For

970
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,840
Kevin Durant, if you're Minnesota.

971
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 2: I think if you're maybe, yeah, I was thinking more

972
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,440
of from Phoenix's perspective, Like it does feel like that's

973
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,360
the type of offer, So like I just I don't

974
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,679
know why they came into my head, but it's like, uh, Atlanta,

975
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,440
that not that Durant wants to go there. But it's

976
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,079
like I'm trying to think of teams that might be

977
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:43,760
able to give you back like two and a half

978
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,760
interesting starters, maybe one of whom is like young and

979
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,119
then a pit you know, so it's like Jalen Johnson

980
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,719
and Dyson Daniels and whatever for Durant, Like I don't

981
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,880
know if Atlanta does that one, probably not, but like

982
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,400
that kind of package, it's like the four first rounders thing,

983
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:04,000
like if you're Phoenix, I guess, okay, that's good, but

984
00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:06,880
like you're still taking back salary unless you're just dumping

985
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,719
him I don't know where or something Brooklyn, which means

986
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,519
that'd be fun. So so yeah, like it's gotta be

987
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,960
a couple starters and then maybe that's what Booker, Like

988
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,360
Booker is not gonna care if you get first round

989
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,559
picks at the back half of this decade, like he's

990
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:25,519
gonna if you want him to stay, I think you

991
00:46:25,559 --> 00:46:27,239
do need to just get a couple guys in there

992
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:28,920
that he can look at the roster and be like

993
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:32,079
there's a case to be made that now we have

994
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:34,840
a chance to just be better. Like that that should

995
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,440
be the only thing that matters to him right.

996
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,159
Speaker 1: Right, And I think you also, Kevin Durrant is your

997
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,320
only chance at really doing that because Bradley Beals we

998
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,079
mentioned the no trade calluse just doesn't have a ton

999
00:46:45,079 --> 00:46:49,000
of value. And because Phoenix, at least as of I

1000
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,519
guess next year, they projected to be where are they

1001
00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:55,119
apron wise? I'm seeing that they're, well, this can't like

1002
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,960
you're still gonna be tethered to like these financial constraints

1003
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,000
and so you're not to be able to Okay, we

1004
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:03,280
got picks, but now let's go consolidate and get more

1005
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,679
talent in here. So Kevin Durant' is like your best

1006
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,199
chance to break I guess it up and say, Okay,

1007
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,480
we got two players who maybe they're non stars, but

1008
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,960
they're gonna deepen the rotation, maybe make us a more

1009
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,280
balanced team and where we view ourselves as being immediately competitive.

1010
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:20,599
And I just don't know, you know, you say, could

1011
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:22,440
we get two starters from somebody? I just don't know

1012
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,079
what team is giving you two? Like Atlanta would be interesting,

1013
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:26,880
but does Kevin Durant want to go there? And they

1014
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,800
feel like they're kind of headed in the opposite direction

1015
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:29,559
of that.

1016
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I it seems like Miami Golden is just

1017
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,360
like Minnesota. Maybe I have a hard time getting beyond

1018
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,440
teams that we've actually heard, like at least whispered to

1019
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:44,320
have been like landing spots for him, just because of

1020
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,400
all the reasons you mentioned.

1021
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: Do you think that he would be a candidate to

1022
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,760
go the basketball sick o route? And if it was

1023
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,320
just like Orlando really wanted him, he's kind of looking

1024
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,079
He's like, oh, they got Polo and Franz there. Now

1025
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:58,039
we got these three guys that are just six foot ten,

1026
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,079
And could you see him thinking like, Yeah, I feel

1027
00:48:01,079 --> 00:48:03,599
like he's the type of player that would thank you.

1028
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: I know you're gonna say Oklahoma City, but just just

1029
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:08,639
go back and just win a title that he couldn't

1030
00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:13,880
win before. Yeah, I don't he's I mean, news flash, Durance,

1031
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,760
it's hard to it's hard to figure out what Durant

1032
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,920
wants in a team. So, I mean, I don't know

1033
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,400
about Orlando. Yeah, Like I guess, I guess you could

1034
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,280
see him just kind of looking at the landscape in

1035
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,000
so far as he's got control over this and saying

1036
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:33,400
like where where seems like the most fun place to play?

1037
00:48:34,039 --> 00:48:37,800
But yeah, I don't know. I don't have a good

1038
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,559
I don't think anybody has a good gauge on like

1039
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:41,920
what he's necessarily after at this point.

1040
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: Do you think he's in Phoenix at the start of

1041
00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:44,519
next season.

1042
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:45,199
Speaker 2: No way.

1043
00:48:45,559 --> 00:48:47,079
Speaker 1: Do you think Devin Booker is in Phoenix at the

1044
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:48,360
start of the next season.

1045
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: Yes, But then Booker is immediately just a number one

1046
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,000
on the like Where's he gonna go? Trade trade discussion rankings.

1047
00:48:56,159 --> 00:49:00,159
Speaker 1: The next team on our board the Portland Trailblazers, which

1048
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:03,079
is kind of the team that I think would fall under. Okay,

1049
00:49:03,079 --> 00:49:06,760
they're gonna look at moving Jeremy Grant, Deandre's an expiring contract,

1050
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:09,719
and Frey Simons is an expiring contract. But if they

1051
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,239
also sort of been good enough for long enough. They

1052
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,400
have the fifth best defense in the league since January first,

1053
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,880
and they're comfortably over five hundred during that span. I

1054
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,559
don't know how much value we assigned to that. I

1055
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:23,639
think it's a big deal that. Okay, while when they've

1056
00:49:23,639 --> 00:49:26,559
been healthy, you could say the minutes of we've still

1057
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:31,079
seen too much Jeremy Grant, too much Ayton, but everybody

1058
00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:34,159
else that's driving this for the most part, is part

1059
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:36,840
of the long term program. They're gonna have a lottery

1060
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,880
pick this year and all, although they are close to

1061
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,239
the play in, but they're not gonna come out of

1062
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,920
the plane if they're even if they make it. But

1063
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:46,159
could you see them just we saw it a little

1064
00:49:46,159 --> 00:49:48,039
bit with the Denni Avdia trade where it's like, we'll

1065
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:50,679
include like future picks to get someone that we think

1066
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,480
fits like aligned with where we're going and makes us

1067
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,239
immediately better. And if they continue to finish the season

1068
00:49:56,679 --> 00:49:59,519
on this heater, and knowing you look at Shandon Sharp

1069
00:49:59,639 --> 00:50:02,679
feels almost I guess Scoots their biggest mystery box technically,

1070
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,719
but Shade and Sharp between him Donovan Clinkin to Mahdi

1071
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,400
Kamara Denny Avya, it's like, well, do we just have

1072
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,079
our base right here and then if we want to

1073
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:13,800
go out, we have other salaries, we have picks. We

1074
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,559
want to go out and maybe get somebody to make

1075
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:18,960
us Remember we were trying to spot, well, who's that

1076
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:22,000
next team up. I think it's a leap a few

1077
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:24,960
bridges too far to say it's the Blazers, But could

1078
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,159
they think in terms of the mindset, especially because it

1079
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:29,400
feels like they've been caught in this rebuild for longer

1080
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,119
than they actually have because of how the Damien Lillard

1081
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:35,159
era was, you know, mediocre towards the end.

1082
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like the Blazers, Like I really think,

1083
00:50:38,519 --> 00:50:42,599
you know, I have less hesitation about saying or I

1084
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:45,239
just like I feel really good about their core because

1085
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,159
those five young guys you mentioned, just like, I like

1086
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,920
that could just be your start scoot uh sharp kamara

1087
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,239
avdya klinging like.

1088
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: You're pregnant, could be insane.

1089
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: I feel pretty good about that, Like the guy. Everybody's

1090
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:02,480
kind of got their niche like you do. You've a

1091
00:51:02,519 --> 00:51:04,920
lot of the boxes checked that you'd want and like

1092
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,239
a functional like wealth put together like starting slash closing unit.

1093
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:14,159
It's not perfect, but like everybody is good and promising

1094
00:51:14,199 --> 00:51:17,159
and like should get better. I don't know, maybe Abdias

1095
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:19,760
already kind of topped out, but even he's had stretches

1096
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,400
where he's looked better this year. So the thing I

1097
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,400
look at most with Portland and trying to gauge like

1098
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:28,519
what their options are and how they can improve is

1099
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:31,199
is so they're just between eight and Simon's and Robert

1100
00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:33,760
Williams the third those are all going to be on

1101
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,480
expiring deals in twenty five, twenty six, And the thing

1102
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:40,360
that I'm kind of stuck on is is it a

1103
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,639
mistake that they have let all that held on to

1104
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,679
all three of these guys through the deadline and can

1105
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:51,119
go into next year with them as expirings, because like,

1106
00:51:51,559 --> 00:51:54,199
as trade chips, are they less valuable because they'll be

1107
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,880
you know, half season rentals if they trade them next year?

1108
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:00,760
Are they somehow more valuable to be traded? This offs?

1109
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: Like?

1110
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:03,679
Speaker 2: Did are they timing this right? Because if you're of

1111
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,199
the opinion that like you could just say, we got

1112
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:07,840
to get these guys like out of the way, I'm

1113
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,639
excluding Grant because he's on the books for so many

1114
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,679
more years and dollars. But like between Simons Aden and

1115
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:19,119
Robert Williams a third, like did they air in not

1116
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,440
moving them sooner? And have they kind of put themselves

1117
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,960
in a position where now it's like you can't really

1118
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,960
expect to get anything to bolster the young core you

1119
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,159
have by moving them. It's more just like we're dumping

1120
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:35,320
these guys onto a team that wants them for three

1121
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,400
months and then has to deal with their free agency.

1122
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:42,119
Speaker 1: So I actually don't think they Upon more reflection, Jeremy

1123
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:44,000
Grant's the move that I thought, just like, not even

1124
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:45,679
just get the contract off the books, but just like

1125
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,400
you have a lot of players that can fill like

1126
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,000
the minutes that he's going to play. Yeah, Simons was

1127
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:54,360
the standalone asset to me that if you wanted to

1128
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,079
move him and get picks back, you probably missed the

1129
00:52:57,119 --> 00:53:01,440
window to maximot top that out. However, he's young enough

1130
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,719
and so important enough to your spacing that I kind

1131
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,719
of don't mind. And with eight and I think he's

1132
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,719
more valuable as an expiring cont. I just don't think

1133
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,199
there was a ton of value around the league for

1134
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,920
him as a like, I don't think anyone who's trading

1135
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,360
for him is doing so other than because he either

1136
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,360
helps make the math work or they're sending out a

1137
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,159
longer term deal that they don't want anymore. So expiring

1138
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:22,280
is better. And with Robert Williams a third, I think

1139
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,480
it's kind of a wash. If you weren't gonna if

1140
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:26,639
the offers for him were like two or three seconds

1141
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,840
this year, I think you probably get two or three

1142
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,480
seconds or him over the offseason or next season, unless

1143
00:53:31,519 --> 00:53:33,760
he's even more hurt. And then even if he is,

1144
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,800
you missed the boat on seconds, I like eighton. I

1145
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,760
think like that's and that's where I was almost coming

1146
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,280
at this from, is isn't there a possibility that they

1147
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,320
look at let's say that Jeremy Grant and deandret and

1148
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,679
salary slots, is, well, what can we attach to X

1149
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,360
to maybe make our team better? Like, I don't think

1150
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,280
that's a path that people have considered with the Blazers.

1151
00:53:54,119 --> 00:53:55,960
I also want to I do want to ask you

1152
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,480
because this has been and it does I think it

1153
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,480
kind of informs this entire discussion with will they look

1154
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,800
a lot different next year? Do you think they're making

1155
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:08,679
an error by not tanking or And because I struggle

1156
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:11,199
with that question, I've seen it fvoted a lot. What

1157
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,800
would tanking look like for this team when you have

1158
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:18,840
if you started to rank their most impactful players this season,

1159
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,559
I think a bunch of those guys you would want

1160
00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:25,679
on the roster moving forward? And so what does tank like?

1161
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,360
If tanking looks like we've got to shut down Scoot

1162
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,480
and Tamani Kamara, that's like, all right.

1163
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,039
Speaker 2: No, that's the problem. The reverse of it is how

1164
00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:37,679
I was gonna like kind of try to explain it

1165
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,320
is like the guys that you would play more in

1166
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,239
order to tank are good and so and young and so,

1167
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,480
like you're not like you could play Scoot and Sharp

1168
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:48,920
and Clinging and all the five guys we mentioned. You

1169
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,440
can play those guys more. The problem is, like Clinging

1170
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,239
really helps the defense, like he's a positive force, and

1171
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,159
like Scoot has played great, and maybe that changes if

1172
00:54:57,199 --> 00:54:59,679
you're spending a much more time against first units with

1173
00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:02,960
some of these guys. But like, I really don't. I

1174
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,280
don't think they're equipped to tank like you could unless

1175
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,960
you go full bore and you're just like, hey, everybody's

1176
00:55:08,039 --> 00:55:11,199
hurt and we're gonna play just two way guys and whatever.

1177
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,239
So I think like normally we would be just like,

1178
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,360
what are you guys doing. You're gonna you're stuck in

1179
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,199
the middle. This feels different. This isn't a Chicago Bulls

1180
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,559
or Sacramento Kings middle. It's like they're in the middle.

1181
00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:26,039
But that's because their young players have been good enough

1182
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:28,840
to drive them up to that point from the bottom,

1183
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,559
and the momentum is, you know, continuing upward. So like,

1184
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,840
I don't think it's a mistake to not tank. I

1185
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,639
think you could also say, like they kind of have

1186
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,239
three guys at least that are the cornerstone types you

1187
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,800
would tank for or like at least you know, promising enough.

1188
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,719
So yeah, if they were, if they'd started out one

1189
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,400
and twenty, then yeah, no matter what else happens, you

1190
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,920
should have tanked. But they just they're too good. Their

1191
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,679
young players are too good. And that's a that's a

1192
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:56,280
great problem, right, that's what you want.

1193
00:55:56,599 --> 00:55:59,119
Speaker 1: I think you look at it and say, unless they

1194
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,159
don't believe and I still think Scoot is the most likely,

1195
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,639
but that none of their young guys can be their

1196
00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:07,679
tenth poll of the future, then that that's when it

1197
00:56:07,679 --> 00:56:09,960
becomes a mistake if you just believe that, no, it

1198
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,039
can't be Scoot, and maybe it can't be, but as

1199
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:14,119
of right now, the way he's played this season, no,

1200
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,280
the possible, the door is open, then it absolutely could

1201
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:17,719
be him. I think he's their best shot at it.

1202
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,519
And so because you have him, it's not you know,

1203
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:21,760
you use the bulls. It's not that situation where they

1204
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,960
still don't have that directional building block. And so that's

1205
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,760
why I'm ultimately okay with where they are. And then

1206
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,920
also I mean repeating myself here, it's what I just

1207
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:33,599
don't know what tanking would look like for this.

1208
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:34,679
Speaker 2: How do you do it?

1209
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,079
Speaker 1: Like, if you start playing dwap reach, you're probably just

1210
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:37,920
gonna win more games.

1211
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 2: We know that that's given.

1212
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:42,559
Speaker 1: Do you think they'll look that. I think they will

1213
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:45,960
move eight and Simons or like at least one of

1214
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,519
those guys or Grant this offseason. And I would just

1215
00:56:49,559 --> 00:56:52,679
be curious if it's Simons or even if it's eight,

1216
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,960
and just because he's expiring, I can view it through

1217
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,559
the lens of oh, maybe they're taking back a bad

1218
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:59,159
contract and that's how they're getting picks or prospects. If

1219
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:02,239
it's Grant, I'm almost assuming that they're kind of doing

1220
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:06,480
the Deniavvia thing where we're attaching stuff and we're trying

1221
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:07,719
to make ourselves better.

1222
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think of those four, we'll

1223
00:57:11,559 --> 00:57:14,199
throw Grant in there with Simon's and Aiden and why

1224
00:57:14,199 --> 00:57:17,320
can't I ever remember and I can never remember the

1225
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,519
third guy. I'd say, like at least two of them

1226
00:57:19,639 --> 00:57:21,920
will be gone. I think over the summer would be

1227
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:22,440
my guess.

1228
00:57:22,519 --> 00:57:24,519
Speaker 1: I'll take over one point five. I like that one,

1229
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:28,559
the Orlando Magic. This it feels counterintuitive to throw them

1230
00:57:28,639 --> 00:57:30,840
here because they're not a team that is proud of themselves.

1231
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,360
I'm making big changes, but they're also a team that,

1232
00:57:33,519 --> 00:57:36,559
even amid all the injuries, bummer about the Jayleen Sugs news,

1233
00:57:37,079 --> 00:57:38,559
you'll look at them and it's all right, we know

1234
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:41,719
what they need on offense ten times over. They this

1235
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,039
is the offseason, they have to do something to address it, right.

1236
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of because they feel like they've

1237
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,199
been this team for a long time where it's just

1238
00:57:50,239 --> 00:57:53,400
like we all see it. What can we please do something?

1239
00:57:53,679 --> 00:57:55,960
I'm trying to think of. Can you think of another

1240
00:57:56,039 --> 00:57:59,760
team that with like a positional or like a certain

1241
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,920
satistical deficiency just let it ride for this long? Who

1242
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:04,920
comes to mind.

1243
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: Memphis in the post Rudy gay Wing era.

1244
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:11,679
Speaker 2: Oh wow, you're bringing it back. Yeah, that's true. They

1245
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:14,440
have not had well Zion Williams, Dan, how dare you?

1246
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: Uh look, I was in the bag for Zion Williams.

1247
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: I can't even or yeah, that's a good one.

1248
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:19,719
Speaker 1: I'm trying.

1249
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: I mean, like, I feel like we talked a lot

1250
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:25,719
about the Pelican Center, uh the last offseason, but.

1251
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,639
Speaker 1: Like like they've had they've had Steven Adams and Jonas

1252
00:58:28,639 --> 00:58:30,800
found like those were real centers.

1253
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,199
Speaker 2: Them not having a stretch center maybe isn't is a

1254
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:39,199
comparable thing. Yeah, so so Orlando clearly needs just shooting,

1255
00:58:39,239 --> 00:58:41,559
someone to push the pace, a guard that runs out

1256
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:44,480
like all that that kind of thing. Do you when

1257
00:58:44,519 --> 00:58:46,719
you look at the roster as they have it now,

1258
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,000
do you just constantly find yourself looking to like I

1259
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,599
would like to peel off like one or two defensive

1260
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,360
minded big guys and turn them into a shooter or

1261
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,880
like a pace pushing guard. Like and so you got

1262
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:03,760
John Isaac, that is like just I know his contract

1263
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,920
is completely bizarre, three non guaranteed years after next year,

1264
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,159
so fifteen million next year and then the next three

1265
00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:13,960
after that or like so yeah, sure we could spare

1266
00:59:14,039 --> 00:59:16,639
Jonathan Isaac if we're the magic right, I assume Wendell

1267
00:59:16,719 --> 00:59:19,400
Carter has ten, eighteen and nineteen million in the next

1268
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,719
three years. Like, yeah, I guess you can move him.

1269
00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:25,000
But like, they just don't do it. They don't do

1270
00:59:25,159 --> 00:59:27,519
they don't make that move. So we're kind of in

1271
00:59:27,519 --> 00:59:29,760
the wishful thinking section I think right now.

1272
00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: Right, and what also was complicated is that organizationally, and

1273
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,840
including with Jamal Moseley, it doesn't even seem like So

1274
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,519
let's say you get a player and granted they don't

1275
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:41,000
necessarily have this player right now, but if you get

1276
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,800
a player who's good enough or that we deem is

1277
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,159
good enough, unlet's use Anthony Simons as an example. Not

1278
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:47,480
necessarily he's not a floor general, but because you are

1279
00:59:47,559 --> 00:59:49,119
Franz and Paula like, I don't even know if they

1280
00:59:49,199 --> 00:59:52,960
need to skew that way entirely, But are you gonna

1281
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,360
play him enough? Because he's a deficiency on defense And

1282
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,519
it seems like this team has glombed onto the idea

1283
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:00,800
that it was ever on the floor needs to be

1284
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,639
a plus defender. And if all you had were negative

1285
01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:07,320
defenders on the team, I might agree with you. But

1286
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,320
all you have are those defensive dudes. And are they

1287
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,920
gonna be too specific in say that player who we acquire,

1288
01:00:14,599 --> 01:00:16,880
it like they need to be good on defense too,

1289
01:00:17,159 --> 01:00:20,360
which is then restricting their pool even further because couldn't

1290
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,599
wouldn't you think? Because I'm using these two players as

1291
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:25,400
an example because I don't think it would cost that. Yeah,

1292
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,599
it'd be cool to see LaMelo Ball on this team,

1293
01:00:27,679 --> 01:00:30,199
but they don't seem the Magic are not a squad

1294
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,159
that even if Flamelo Ball was available, even if he

1295
01:00:32,199 --> 01:00:34,840
said I want to play in Orlando. I don't feel

1296
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,119
like that they would include like go all in to

1297
01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:40,119
that extent, But like, don't you think like a Signmon's

1298
01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:42,239
or a Kobe White would make a world of difference

1299
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:45,159
for this team? And then I find myself saying, do

1300
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:47,400
I trust that they're gonna be given the like or

1301
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,400
as soon as they just get blown by or they

1302
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,119
get screened off, that they're gonna be benched and like

1303
01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:55,639
they're gonna be marginalized a little bit. Maybe they just

1304
01:00:55,679 --> 01:00:58,360
haven't had the player, Like using Jet Howard as the

1305
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,719
analog just isn't fair because Jet Howard. Yeah, but I

1306
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,639
do wonder if they're too caught up on the idea

1307
01:01:04,679 --> 01:01:07,639
that they need to have all these rangy or just

1308
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,559
plus defenders on the court at all times, to where

1309
01:01:10,599 --> 01:01:12,559
even kind of when they were at their most injured,

1310
01:01:12,599 --> 01:01:14,360
it's like, well, we would rather see like Tristan to

1311
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,840
silver ball handling reps than really try and like lean

1312
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:21,800
into any sort of like real offensive utility here. And

1313
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,320
that's what I guess worries me or confuses me.

1314
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 2: I think I think the like the philosophical discussion Orlando

1315
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:32,239
needs to have about can we onboard someone who is

1316
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,679
not a plus defender? Would would have to happen like

1317
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,119
at you know, preceding the acquisition of that player, as

1318
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:42,800
opposed to after you've gotten him and then realizing, oh,

1319
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,159
he's not a plus defender, so we'll bench him. It's

1320
01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:48,039
like if you on if you bring in Anthony Simons,

1321
01:01:48,679 --> 01:01:51,679
if the Magic do that, they have to already be conceding,

1322
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,079
like okay, we're gonna bend a little bit and not

1323
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,760
require that he'd be a shutdown defender because like if

1324
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,760
you go get Anthony Simons and then you don't play

1325
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,599
him because he's not a shutdown defender, it's like good point,

1326
01:02:02,719 --> 01:02:06,039
fellas you knew, like this was all well understood, Like

1327
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:08,039
that's just our Malik Monk or whoever you want it

1328
01:02:08,119 --> 01:02:10,400
to be, LaMelo. It's like, no, no, we all understand

1329
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,760
who they are. You don't get to trade for them

1330
01:02:13,159 --> 01:02:16,440
and then like stick to your guns culturally and say

1331
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,079
you can't play because you don't defend. It's like no,

1332
01:02:18,119 --> 01:02:19,480
if you go get the guy, you sort of have

1333
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:23,079
to let him do him and just and then have

1334
01:02:23,159 --> 01:02:25,880
trust in the culture and the priorities that you've built

1335
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,320
like that, the other four guys are gonna be good defenders,

1336
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,400
so we can so we're good. Like you can, like

1337
01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:35,119
think how many teams can say they always really good

1338
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:38,039
teams always have five good defenders on the floor, like

1339
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,039
the twenty five the twenty four to twenty five Celtics,

1340
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:42,960
or I mean, like twenty three twenty four Celtics was

1341
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:45,239
one that comes to mind. But like even the great

1342
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,960
Nuggets teams that won a title, like Jamal Murray's not

1343
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,559
a good defender, so you had one Jokic like figured

1344
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:51,320
out how to defend.

1345
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: But it's like Jamal Murray can hit a level defensively

1346
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,719
where Orlando I could see trading for.

1347
01:02:55,679 --> 01:02:58,079
Speaker 2: Him and say he too, like he's got good snize.

1348
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:00,000
That's another thing. But like you know what I mean,

1349
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,360
I mean, like generally speaking, you're gonna put somebody in

1350
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,719
your closing lineup that's not like Drew Holiday, like you're

1351
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,440
you know prime Drew Holiday, Like somebody's gonna be but

1352
01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:11,639
even he was buried at the start of the season too,

1353
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:15,440
so they maybe Really what we're drilling down on is

1354
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,719
like Orlando just has to start making concessions and say,

1355
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,320
if we want to win. We're gonna need to score,

1356
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,239
and to do that, we need to like relax our

1357
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,199
requirements on how good a defender you are to play

1358
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:27,760
for us?

1359
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:29,559
Speaker 1: Do you think that this is the off season they'll

1360
01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:30,599
actually get there?

1361
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,599
Speaker 2: It got it fucking better be like it doesn't have

1362
01:03:33,679 --> 01:03:35,639
to be like how much longer do you get to

1363
01:03:35,719 --> 01:03:37,880
keep the same strengths and weaknesses and not change it

1364
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,519
before we all just look at it like what do

1365
01:03:39,559 --> 01:03:40,800
you and say what are you doing?

1366
01:03:41,559 --> 01:03:44,559
Speaker 1: Uh? Four oh six pm Eastern Time, March fifth, twenty

1367
01:03:44,639 --> 01:03:47,639
twenty five. Grant gave it impassion to f Bob about

1368
01:03:47,639 --> 01:03:49,800
the Orlando Magic. I think that's the closest we've seen

1369
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,960
him to getting irate on this podcast.

1370
01:03:52,239 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 2: Agree right, like they have it just it has to happen.

1371
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,039
Speaker 1: If it doesn't, it's well, don't they have built in

1372
01:03:58,159 --> 01:04:01,159
cover to say we can't look at all these injuries

1373
01:04:01,199 --> 01:04:03,239
like Jae and Thugs, Palaban, Carol friends, I don't have

1374
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:05,880
played ninety seven minutes together this season. They can in

1375
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,000
theory look to that and say, well, we'll get there,

1376
01:04:08,239 --> 01:04:09,920
like we just haven't seen enough of them together.

1377
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 2: Here's the other thing is is sometimes like who I forget?

1378
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,679
Who I was talking about this. So it's like Mark

1379
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,440
Jackson got the Warriors to defend really well and was

1380
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,079
just inflexible and not creative and kind of backward and

1381
01:04:23,119 --> 01:04:27,280
a lot of his other you know, coaching tendencies, Like

1382
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,800
so Orlando. If Orlando goes and gets an offensive player

1383
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,639
or two and like stylistically they don't change, then it's

1384
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:36,639
kind of on Moseley because then it becomes like this

1385
01:04:36,679 --> 01:04:39,440
coach coach is one way, and we might need someone

1386
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:41,440
different to get us to the next to be our

1387
01:04:41,559 --> 01:04:44,039
like Steve Kerr, that's that looks at the roster and

1388
01:04:44,039 --> 01:04:46,320
says like, well, here's how it should go, and like

1389
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,320
everything clicks. I think, like we may not be that far.

1390
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,159
We all agree. Jamal Moseley's like a hell of a

1391
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:54,880
defensive coach and like has got Orlando to play in

1392
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,039
a way that most teams don't from like an effort

1393
01:04:57,039 --> 01:04:59,360
standpoint and like that whole thing that's hard to do.

1394
01:05:00,039 --> 01:05:02,239
But if he gets offensive players and they don't pick

1395
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,519
up the pace and shoot and make more threes than like,

1396
01:05:05,159 --> 01:05:07,280
I don't know that that's the next conversation we might

1397
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:07,679
have to have.

1398
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna will it into existence by saying this is

1399
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,000
the summer they do it. They if it's not a

1400
01:05:12,039 --> 01:05:14,199
floor general type, it's someone who can handle the ball,

1401
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:17,639
make shots from the perimeter that'll be in their closing lineup.

1402
01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:20,440
That this is the summer that Orlando's gonna go get

1403
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:21,239
that player.

1404
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: Fervently, hope.

1405
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,119
Speaker 1: So now we get to talk about the Sacramento Kings,

1406
01:05:24,119 --> 01:05:26,840
who I'm not even sure they definitely belong on the

1407
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:31,320
consideration list right I just don't necessarily know where they're headed. Uh,

1408
01:05:31,679 --> 01:05:36,239
they're They've been good since the trade deadline, small sample size.

1409
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,800
Now Sabonus is out with that hamstring strain, He'll probably

1410
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,519
be back in like a minute because it's the bonus.

1411
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,280
But just sort of the makeup of this roster of

1412
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:50,039
Keegan Murray, Sabonis, DeRozan, Zach Lavine, Malik monk Kean Ellis,

1413
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,159
I don't this is not a team. I don't think

1414
01:05:52,159 --> 01:05:54,800
they're gonna consider rebuilding. But do they have now after

1415
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,440
the d'arron Fox trade, do they have the assets necessary

1416
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,199
in some of the salaries to say, Okay, we're gonna

1417
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,840
go consolidate and try and balance out our roster, And

1418
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,519
then what does that even look like? I think look

1419
01:06:06,519 --> 01:06:09,280
there are people clamoring for a floor general for them

1420
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:12,280
when they had Darn Fox and like, now it's okay,

1421
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,000
you have Levine and de Rosen and Monk, And I

1422
01:06:14,039 --> 01:06:17,159
don't know, can I still believe as good as they've

1423
01:06:17,199 --> 01:06:20,719
been offensively statistically since the trade deadline, I just don't

1424
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,559
view them as a playoff prove offense if they were

1425
01:06:23,559 --> 01:06:26,000
to get there. And so that's a need, but it's

1426
01:06:26,039 --> 01:06:27,719
not the only need. And I don't know that they

1427
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:30,280
have the tools to address all the needs that they have.

1428
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,519
And so I'm wondering if I'm discounting the idea that

1429
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:37,840
could we see them pivot into something more closely resembling

1430
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,679
a rebuild this summer, especially if they miss the playoffs,

1431
01:06:41,719 --> 01:06:44,639
whether it's but they'll make the plan or is it

1432
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,760
no the Darron Fox trade, Yes, they kind of lost

1433
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:49,440
a lot of leverage there. Yes, he wanted to go

1434
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,639
to the Spurs, But did that kind of telegraph what

1435
01:06:52,679 --> 01:06:53,559
they're trying to do?

1436
01:06:54,599 --> 01:06:57,639
Speaker 2: I just don't. I don't see a rebuild or anything

1437
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,440
close to it, just because that's not how the Kings

1438
01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:04,559
have really, like ever operated, Like there have been situations

1439
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:08,039
where it was more obvious that like a startover was

1440
01:07:08,119 --> 01:07:10,320
necessary and they didn't do it. And now I think

1441
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,920
you can look at the you can it's real easy

1442
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:18,239
to put you know, DeRozan, Levine, Sabonis, Murray like up

1443
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,960
on the Marquee and the ownership and fans are like,

1444
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:24,440
that's cool. Those guys are good like that, you know that,

1445
01:07:24,599 --> 01:07:26,360
Like they can be a decent team. They can be

1446
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,519
competitive night tonight. I think if you're just talking about ceiling,

1447
01:07:29,639 --> 01:07:32,280
the problems that have been there for a while persist,

1448
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:36,920
which is like they overend x on score first slash

1449
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,039
like score only guys that don't help you win on

1450
01:07:40,119 --> 01:07:44,039
the margins, and like I think most smart teams are

1451
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:46,840
not going to trade you those guys for the Levines

1452
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,519
and the Derozans of the world and the Sabonises, who

1453
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:52,239
just their track records are what they are, like they're

1454
01:07:52,719 --> 01:07:56,480
playing guys their first round out guys they you know,

1455
01:07:56,519 --> 01:07:58,480
you know what I mean. Like, so if you're if

1456
01:07:58,519 --> 01:08:02,119
you're just a back, like if you sent Monk to

1457
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:07,880
Orlando for Isaac and something like that would make sense

1458
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,320
to me from like a let's balance out the roster

1459
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,000
King's standpoint and Orlando really, but that isn't the type

1460
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,520
of trade that the Kings typically make, where it's like

1461
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,279
monks the flash of your name, he scores, he generates highlights.

1462
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,239
He kind of plays a position of need because they

1463
01:08:23,239 --> 01:08:24,960
don't have a point guard. We should probably talk about

1464
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,520
Devin Carter and like how he's going to feature going forward.

1465
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,359
But the kinds of trades the Kings need to make

1466
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,600
to go from like pretty good to something better than

1467
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,640
that just don't obviously present themselves. But I do think

1468
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:40,079
the reason they're here is like they should try to

1469
01:08:40,119 --> 01:08:42,159
look different next year. I just, I just I'm not

1470
01:08:42,159 --> 01:08:44,319
sure if you have a clear way to explain how

1471
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:44,960
that might happen.

1472
01:08:45,239 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 1: I don't have a clear way because it seems like

1473
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,039
that I mean, you out laid both of their needs,

1474
01:08:50,079 --> 01:08:52,439
which and I mentioned the floor general type, and then

1475
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,079
it would be nice to get like you need a

1476
01:08:54,119 --> 01:08:56,439
different type of look on the front line, like preferately

1477
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,359
that player can man some center behind the bonus, but

1478
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:01,199
most certainly like okay, can you play them with Kegan

1479
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:04,399
Murray and some bonus and help you defensively there? I

1480
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,319
don't know, like I don't know what the order like

1481
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,039
Isaac would be a good call out, So like let's

1482
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:10,199
say you're able to make an Isaac trade. He can't

1483
01:09:10,199 --> 01:09:11,720
play a ton of minutes, but let's just say that's

1484
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:13,800
not a factor if you're moving Monk, what is then

1485
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,800
the name you go after to help you with your offense?

1486
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:19,720
Because Devin Carter, even if he's healthy, that's never been

1487
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,199
someone that he's like, he's profiled, and I know he's

1488
01:09:23,199 --> 01:09:25,000
still sort of working his way back, but it's not

1489
01:09:25,039 --> 01:09:27,159
like he's been a huge part of the rotation anyway.

1490
01:09:27,239 --> 01:09:31,000
I know there's like big expectator big there's expectations, let's

1491
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,479
say in Sacramento. So that's gonna hurt the learning curve,

1492
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:34,920
but that's I don't know why that would make them

1493
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,279
any more confident in kind of baptizing him by fire

1494
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,319
next year. And so it's like do they have Is

1495
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:42,560
this team better off if you can use Monk and

1496
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,359
then you have these assets, and it's like you end

1497
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,119
up somehow with Jonathan Isaac and Kobe White, like this

1498
01:09:47,159 --> 01:09:49,359
team is better off. But is that enough or have

1499
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:50,920
you kind of said, well, now we're gonna pay Kobe

1500
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,479
White a bunch of money as Demarta Rosen I guess

1501
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,079
is in the final year of his contract, and it's

1502
01:09:56,279 --> 01:09:58,600
And that's the other thing too, is with the exception

1503
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,760
of some bonus and Keegan Murhy, just because we know

1504
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:04,359
how extensions are restricted free agency works, what else is

1505
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,199
here long term as a known quantity?

1506
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Levine is, I mean, who knows, But that

1507
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,840
doesn't seem like someone they're like already talking about, like

1508
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,239
how do we keep him? You know that, And DeRozan's not.

1509
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:17,960
DeRozan's non guaranteed after next year, so he's like you

1510
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:19,800
can kind of view Derozane as an expire I don't

1511
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:21,239
know if it's a partial I can't remember if it's

1512
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:24,560
a partial or a full non guarantee, But like DeRozan

1513
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,680
and Valanciunis next year, technically can both be expiring via

1514
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,560
non guarantees the following year. So like maybe that's a

1515
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,640
package you put together to trade for somebody that you

1516
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,239
do want to like install as a fixture. But yeah,

1517
01:10:37,279 --> 01:10:41,800
you're you're totally right, like Sibonus Murray, I guess, Carter,

1518
01:10:42,359 --> 01:10:45,479
like other than that, you know, everybody here feels kind

1519
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,159
of short timy, and so that I mean that actually

1520
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:50,680
just means like any rebuild that might be coming down

1521
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,279
the pike is like kind of a ways off because

1522
01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:55,399
they've got like stop gaps for a couple more years

1523
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:56,640
before they can really do anything.

1524
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,159
Speaker 1: It does seem like they need to be a team

1525
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:01,920
that can solids or it's not even consolidated, but like

1526
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:06,000
they need to remake their roster and turn I'll say

1527
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,520
it this way, they need another closing lineup member for

1528
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:13,319
net like a different where it's just like the monk Murray, Sabonis, DeRozan, Levine,

1529
01:11:13,359 --> 01:11:16,920
Like I think the bonus will be there. Murray should absolutely,

1530
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,680
they have no business. I don't care. I don't care

1531
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,079
who it is for at this point short of like

1532
01:11:20,119 --> 01:11:21,920
one of the three best players in the NBA. So

1533
01:11:22,079 --> 01:11:23,880
those two are there, But I think everybody else on

1534
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,800
this roster should be viewed as if not dispensable, then

1535
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:28,359
it's like a level of interchangeable.

1536
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 2: Do you think the DeRozan acquisition was just like objectively

1537
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,239
a mistake at this point.

1538
01:11:36,159 --> 01:11:38,359
Speaker 1: Yes, just because like what have you done? I made

1539
01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:40,359
this joke a bunch of something like your bulls West.

1540
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,319
Now it's you have Deroza shooting well from three since

1541
01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:46,960
the trade deadline, So you have Rosen Levine a liability

1542
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,359
defensively as your center, who's also like a good passer

1543
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:51,680
and provides some stretch. The bonus, I think, let me

1544
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,239
make it clear, is way better than Vucevic. But I

1545
01:11:54,319 --> 01:11:57,199
just don't this, There's no way. And this is why

1546
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,760
when I've seen the defenses of the Kings, like, well,

1547
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,800
like the dearnon Fox situation was beyond their control. It

1548
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,119
wasn't like they clearly they clearly had no idea really

1549
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:07,920
what was coming or didn't have a good handle on it,

1550
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,880
because then why would you have done the DeRozan deal

1551
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:12,800
only to pivot into the zach Lavine deal, Like you

1552
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,920
could have figured out the machinations of getting Levigne out

1553
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,680
right last summer, and yes you did it without giving

1554
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,840
up a first round pick. You gave them dr Vox

1555
01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:25,079
Like that's way more in the first round pick.

1556
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,560
Speaker 2: I feel like the Kings look around the league and

1557
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,840
and like absorb like what wins, like what really wins?

1558
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,199
And then they go like, but what if we tried this?

1559
01:12:35,399 --> 01:12:38,079
And like do do not that? Where it's just like,

1560
01:12:38,159 --> 01:12:40,399
let's get guys that have a high points per game

1561
01:12:40,399 --> 01:12:43,039
and rebound per game average. Is surely that will get

1562
01:12:43,079 --> 01:12:44,479
us to where we need to be. Like, I just

1563
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:46,920
doesn't it feel like they're I don't know, they're playing

1564
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:50,399
like fantasy basketball. That's such a reductive criticism, but it's like,

1565
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,359
how do you put this roster together with its you know,

1566
01:12:54,359 --> 01:12:58,079
clear weaknesses and strengths and conclude like, yep, this is

1567
01:12:58,119 --> 01:13:00,000
gonna get us. It's just like I don't I don't

1568
01:13:00,119 --> 01:13:01,279
understand the vision at all.

1569
01:13:02,039 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: So, between Monk, DeRozan, and Levine, do you think all

1570
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:09,359
three of them are on the Kings next year?

1571
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:17,239
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Droze Levine, I'm gonna say no. And I weirdly

1572
01:13:17,319 --> 01:13:21,960
think Monk will be the one to move because he's like,

1573
01:13:22,039 --> 01:13:24,720
seems the easiest to move of those three.

1574
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,239
Speaker 1: I think when you look at he balances money with

1575
01:13:28,399 --> 01:13:30,960
standalone on core value the best. Yeah.

1576
01:13:31,039 --> 01:13:32,279
Speaker 2: Right, that's a good way to put it.

1577
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: The now, You'll be really funny because you mentioned Monk

1578
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,920
to Orlando, wouldn't it be very magic if we're pushing

1579
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,199
him to run someone who could run the offense and

1580
01:13:40,239 --> 01:13:42,399
get it to play faster. They get someone to run

1581
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:44,520
the offense, but he can't shoot and he won't play faster,

1582
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,279
and it's to Marta rozen like that that would be

1583
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:47,920
more on brand.

1584
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 2: You're thinking about who would be more in the way

1585
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,279
of Franz and Paolo than Derozen like that would just

1586
01:13:52,319 --> 01:13:53,720
be kryptonite to their team.

1587
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: We're into the dark horse section and you chose this one,

1588
01:13:57,319 --> 01:13:58,439
so take it away, Grant.

1589
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 2: Well, so when you get Luka Doncic, it just like

1590
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,760
fundamentally alters your timeline and like you have a new

1591
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,720
central figure there for the first time since Lebron showed up,

1592
01:14:10,199 --> 01:14:12,960
and so that more than anything, And we'll get into why,

1593
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:16,199
Like there's not a whole lot that otherwise suggests like

1594
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:19,520
big changes are coming. I just think when you reorient

1595
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:23,119
your whole team around a different player, it brings into

1596
01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:27,239
play the possibility of like a lot of differences, you know,

1597
01:14:27,279 --> 01:14:29,720
a lot of different things happening over the summer and

1598
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,640
into next year. So like I guess you have to

1599
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,840
discuss like Lebron and Finney Smith both have player options.

1600
01:14:36,079 --> 01:14:38,399
I don't know, you know, Lebron, if he opts out,

1601
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:41,000
we'll just sign a new deal Phinney Smith. That seems

1602
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,000
pretty integral to what they're doing, so they'll do whatever

1603
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,079
they can to bring him back. But you also have

1604
01:14:45,119 --> 01:14:48,960
extension eligibility for several guys, including Luca, but like Tachi Mura,

1605
01:14:49,039 --> 01:14:53,199
Reeves Phinney Smith, I said, uh kleaber Gabe Vincent, you're

1606
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:55,880
about six million under the first apron, so like you

1607
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:59,000
could consolidate and still have a future first and a deal.

1608
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,640
You know, I don't know if they can trade another

1609
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,960
first on draft night, but they have assets to make trades.

1610
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,359
That's just all to outline.

1611
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,159
Speaker 1: Well, they be the first team to trade something related

1612
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:12,399
to twenty thirty two, like a twenty thirty two swap

1613
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:14,640
or the pick, because they have the twenty thirty one,

1614
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,479
Like they could trade twenty thirty one or thirty two

1615
01:15:18,079 --> 01:15:18,880
on draft night.

1616
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 2: You would think, right, because if you go get Luca

1617
01:15:21,119 --> 01:15:23,119
suddenly you're you're like okay in prime.

1618
01:15:23,199 --> 01:15:25,119
Speaker 1: So they don't do it for an injury, but they're

1619
01:15:25,119 --> 01:15:26,880
gonna give it up for Robert. They tried Mark Williams.

1620
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,119
Let's go to another injury prone Williams with Rob Williams.

1621
01:15:29,159 --> 01:15:31,640
Speaker 2: I mean, now, can we talk about the bullet dodged

1622
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:33,520
on that like officially, just like.

1623
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: Especially because they're like first in defense since the last

1624
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,680
time Anthony Davis played, which predates the deadline, But we're

1625
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,319
talking would you have said, I'll say they depending on

1626
01:15:44,359 --> 01:15:47,840
how you feel about Vanderbilt or Finney Smith. They traded

1627
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,399
two of their three most important defenders in the Luca trade,

1628
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,680
and their defense is just they've been for Netik, They've

1629
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:55,000
played some tough opponents.

1630
01:15:55,880 --> 01:16:00,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's unbelievable, you know. Actually, I mean

1631
01:16:00,359 --> 01:16:03,640
unbelievable because because the defense, I do not believe the

1632
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:04,880
defense will continue to be this good.

1633
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna be saying miss as they're in the conference finals,

1634
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:14,479
six of the finals, gonna regress bones, can't miss threes forever.

1635
01:16:15,119 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, we'll stick to those forever. Uh No, I mean,

1636
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,520
do you agree or am I? Just like, am I

1637
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:25,479
over overvaluing the sort of transformative effect on their plans

1638
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:28,800
of getting Luca, because like, realistically not a I mean,

1639
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:30,840
you can, you have some mid tier salaries you could trade,

1640
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:32,920
but it's not like we've we've talked about a half

1641
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,720
dozen teams with just more screamingly obvious changes ahead. It's

1642
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,600
just like Luca's here, So stuff's gonna get weird.

1643
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 1: No, I I think you're spot on here, and it's

1644
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:45,520
it'd be I'd be curious to say they they feel

1645
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,520
like they might fall into the singular transaction bucket more

1646
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,760
so than they do all of this, but maybe some

1647
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:52,840
of their other guys like a Rui or even in

1648
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:56,560
Austin Reeves has more standalone value that you're like, so

1649
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:58,720
that you could make a series of different moves, but

1650
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,680
they have I'm say it's a super high end offer,

1651
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,560
but I think you can include so a first round

1652
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,319
pick this summer and then like up to three swaps

1653
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,199
and so with the matching money that they have, and

1654
01:17:10,239 --> 01:17:12,079
I assume that Dorian Phinney Smith will opt in and

1655
01:17:12,079 --> 01:17:14,720
they'll stend off that number because they'll want to prioritize

1656
01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:18,680
the room beneath the first apron. I don't know what's

1657
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:20,920
this like the single best player you could get for that?

1658
01:17:21,039 --> 01:17:24,000
And I don't mean to play the Lakers exceptionalism card,

1659
01:17:24,039 --> 01:17:26,880
but they did just get Lugadncic. I know Anthony Davis

1660
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,439
is great, but if Kevin Durant, like, would you con

1661
01:17:30,119 --> 01:17:31,960
I guess if you're the Lakers, if Kevin Durrant wanted

1662
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:33,239
to go, would you figure out a way to make

1663
01:17:33,279 --> 01:17:35,399
the math work with consolidation around them? Or are you

1664
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:37,640
more looking at this we need to flesh out like

1665
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:39,439
kind of the depth. It's the big man, of course,

1666
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:42,479
but like we want another wing type in here, because

1667
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:45,399
they probably with only one first round pick to trade.

1668
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,319
If you want them to pull off two moves of consequence,

1669
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,520
you're either looking at it and saying, okay, well one

1670
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:54,119
team has both. I'll say getting two players of consequence.

1671
01:17:54,359 --> 01:17:57,119
One team has both of these players, or one of

1672
01:17:57,159 --> 01:17:59,960
our players has like a lot of standalone value, because

1673
01:18:00,039 --> 01:18:02,199
you could trade a first round pick, but like swaps,

1674
01:18:02,199 --> 01:18:05,960
a standalone value are beyond limited, and so I'll be

1675
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,600
curious to see just I assume it will be like

1676
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,479
the big man route, But are they gonna, like to

1677
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,680
what end are they gonna go like after a big man?

1678
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:15,960
Like what type of swing are they gonna make? Because look,

1679
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:17,920
Robert Williams a third if you don't need to give

1680
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,359
up a first round pick for him, he's absolutely somebody

1681
01:18:20,359 --> 01:18:21,880
that they should be looking at this summer.

1682
01:18:22,159 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think we should also assume to

1683
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,319
bring it back to Lakers exceptionalism, Like all things being equal,

1684
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:32,039
if someone like Clint Capella might be willing to sign

1685
01:18:32,119 --> 01:18:34,279
for less to be with the Lakers and catch lobs

1686
01:18:34,279 --> 01:18:36,359
from Luke, you know what I mean, Like the Lakers

1687
01:18:36,359 --> 01:18:39,920
should assuming they work it right, so they have like

1688
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,840
maximum financial flexibility and free agency. That money should go

1689
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,760
pretty far because because now it's not just Lakers and Lebron,

1690
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,000
it's Lakers Lebron and Luca and guys like certainly big

1691
01:18:50,039 --> 01:18:53,680
guys should want to be in on that like asap,

1692
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:57,359
because you're just you're gonna look real good and so like,

1693
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:01,279
I think the Durant thing is interesting or something like

1694
01:19:01,319 --> 01:19:04,079
that for like one more guy. I'm sort of the

1695
01:19:04,119 --> 01:19:09,119
opinion that Luca is just well, the best Dallas teams

1696
01:19:09,159 --> 01:19:11,439
had you know, him, and then Kyrie and then a

1697
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:14,399
bunch of guys that defended and caught lobs and shot threes.

1698
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:16,800
So I think the Lakers can kind of take a

1699
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,560
shotgun approach of like let's get three or four guys

1700
01:19:20,039 --> 01:19:23,560
in the DFS mold because you also have Reeves, by

1701
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,760
the way, like you could turn Ruey or Reeves into two,

1702
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,279
you know, helpful players and the level.

1703
01:19:29,039 --> 01:19:32,039
Speaker 1: You could do that. I'm totally there with Reeves for sure.

1704
01:19:32,119 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe not so much Ruey wise, you have to

1705
01:19:37,279 --> 01:19:39,199
he might not be able to turn well. And I

1706
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:41,439
think Reeves they should just keep Reeves, like I would say,

1707
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:44,720
I think he's really good. And and if Lebron starts

1708
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,399
to fade. There's your secondary playmaker that can actually just

1709
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,880
be a point guard two. But yeah, it's it's it's uh,

1710
01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:53,039
it's it's kind of hacked. But like three and d

1711
01:19:53,399 --> 01:19:56,640
Lob catching big, that stuff's not super expensive relative to

1712
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:59,600
the superstars. The Lakers tend to chase, you know, another,

1713
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:03,239
so like they should just be all over it in

1714
01:20:03,279 --> 01:20:05,479
free agency, adding a guy here and a guy there,

1715
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:07,479
and they should be looking to see if they can

1716
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:09,640
get some of their mid tier salaries and a pick

1717
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,359
to turn into a closing lineup guy. I think I

1718
01:20:12,359 --> 01:20:14,840
think that's totally realistic, and I think they will do

1719
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:18,039
that because now that you have Luca, Like, why aren't

1720
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:18,720
you going to do that?

1721
01:20:19,079 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 1: And there's also just not process of elimination when you

1722
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:25,520
look at who's playing the most per game when healthy

1723
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:29,239
since the trade deadline, Lebron, Austin Reeves, Ruey, Luca and

1724
01:20:29,319 --> 01:20:32,359
Dorian Finney Smith and then every one after that Jackson

1725
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:37,920
Hayes gave Vincent, Jordan Goodwin, Dalton Connect, Jared Vanderbilt, Trey Jamison.

1726
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,720
It just feels like, and I would even extend it upwards,

1727
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:44,119
I won't. Maybe it's RUI maybe it maybe it ends

1728
01:20:44,199 --> 01:20:46,159
up being I wouldn't guess it would be Austin Reeves,

1729
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:49,119
but maybe it ends up being Dorian Finney Smith leaving

1730
01:20:49,199 --> 01:20:52,159
or something. But certainly Jackson Hayes of their like top

1731
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,560
ten most used players right now, like half of those

1732
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:56,600
just could be different.

1733
01:20:57,039 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 2: That probably should be I think, just you know, because

1734
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,319
like you said that, once you got past who wasn't

1735
01:21:03,319 --> 01:21:06,199
on the list, probably like Finney Smith, and it's like

1736
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:09,239
and Ruie, like, yeah, these guys are all we can

1737
01:21:09,319 --> 01:21:11,319
upgrade on every single one of these six through ten

1738
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:12,439
spots in the rotation.

1739
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:18,399
Speaker 1: My dark horse pick is the Memphis Grizzlies. I don't

1740
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:21,720
know that I'm saying John Morant will enter the trade

1741
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,479
rumor mail. I just look at it and say, if

1742
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,359
once they get to the playoffs, there could be a

1743
01:21:27,399 --> 01:21:29,720
chance that they get bounced in the first round, if

1744
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,119
something like that happens, or there's not really a competitive

1745
01:21:32,159 --> 01:21:35,880
second round start, my assumption would be that they start

1746
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,880
looking at is it consolidation that a lot of people

1747
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,600
have been begging for for a while. Do they look

1748
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,439
at I think Jaron Jackson. Honestly, I think Jared Jackson Junior,

1749
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:48,039
And I like, is the player that's most secure there

1750
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:50,000
for the future, even more so than John Morant, just

1751
01:21:50,039 --> 01:21:53,600
when you look consider the injury stuff. But if you

1752
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,920
don't make a deep playoff run, are you gonna consolidate?

1753
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:58,880
Do you maybe look at moving John Morant and thinking

1754
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,800
that you can get better? Do you maybe dangling Desmond

1755
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,239
Bayne to see if that is something that could satisfy, like,

1756
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:09,279
let's say, improving the the wing situation, specifically something they

1757
01:22:09,319 --> 01:22:11,319
have all their own first round picks. They're gonna have

1758
01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:14,159
cap space, which I assume they'll use to renegotiate Jared

1759
01:22:14,239 --> 01:22:16,680
Jackson's junior deal all the Actually, they probably don't even

1760
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:21,119
need to because he's gonna make all NBA although hopefully, Yeah,

1761
01:22:21,119 --> 01:22:22,720
how long is he out for? I didn't see that.

1762
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 2: Well, so he's got to He's only got to play

1763
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,399
like seven more games I think to get to sixty five,

1764
01:22:28,079 --> 01:22:31,079
and I think it was I mean, I think it's

1765
01:22:31,079 --> 01:22:34,359
gonna be close actually, so, I mean, I would imagine

1766
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:36,760
he'll manage to find a way to play those games

1767
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,079
so he's so he gets the Supermax but still.

1768
01:22:39,199 --> 01:22:41,960
Speaker 1: So if he's not super Max eligible, I'm assuming that

1769
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,199
they will use the cap space to renegotiate his deal.

1770
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,079
But like they have the flexibility beneath the luxury tax

1771
01:22:47,119 --> 01:22:50,840
to say we can consolidate, and we have. They have

1772
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,439
all their own picks. They have interesting young like if

1773
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:57,479
you just include zach het jallenwell sure, but like Gig

1774
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:00,439
Jackson's intriguing, Like Santille Dama's gonna be your free agents.

1775
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:03,359
We got to factor that into their His cap hold

1776
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:05,840
is within their cap space plan. But is he still

1777
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,399
on the team. This just feels like they're so deep

1778
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:10,640
that they need to consolidate, and a lot of that

1779
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,119
it's been born from necessity out of injuries. But like

1780
01:23:13,199 --> 01:23:15,319
all these names like a Vince Williams Junior and a

1781
01:23:15,359 --> 01:23:18,039
Scottie Pitpen Jr. Like all these guys are just not

1782
01:23:18,119 --> 01:23:20,199
going to continue to be on the roster moving forward

1783
01:23:20,279 --> 01:23:23,520
if you fall short of the conference finals. I don't

1784
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,159
know the scale at which they're gonna make changes, but

1785
01:23:26,199 --> 01:23:29,479
they seem like a team that is primed for either

1786
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,880
a significant consolidation trade or maybe even like kind of

1787
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:36,079
more of an overhaul than we're expecting right now.

1788
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:40,520
Speaker 2: The Morant side of it is really interesting because I

1789
01:23:41,039 --> 01:23:45,039
feel like I'm holding out longer than some on the whole.

1790
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,960
You know, actually Jaron Jackson's their best player and most

1791
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:51,399
important player. I think that's probably right that Jackson is

1792
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:55,960
that guy now, but because of what Moran can do

1793
01:23:56,359 --> 01:23:59,399
on the ball, I still hold. But then I kept thinking, like,

1794
01:24:00,119 --> 01:24:02,880
what if he's kind of more stuffan Marberry, then I

1795
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:06,000
don't know someone better than that. What it's like amazing highlights,

1796
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,359
but like kind of never won and eventually is going

1797
01:24:08,399 --> 01:24:11,920
to bounce around as his athleticism leaves. Like trading him

1798
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:16,399
it would be like fascinating. I don't know what you

1799
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,760
could get for him, but like you could really envision

1800
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,560
a scenario where Memphis gets better by moving him. I

1801
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:25,439
think that's totally possible. If you had to guess, do

1802
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:28,800
you think it's more likely that they go seismic and

1803
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,880
think about a Morant move, or it's you know, they

1804
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,960
bundle up a couple other guys and try to just

1805
01:24:35,039 --> 01:24:38,359
get that wing that they haven't had, or something like smaller.

1806
01:24:38,399 --> 01:24:40,960
Speaker 1: I guess I think it's the latter because they were

1807
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:44,079
a team that was linked to Kevin Durant this season,

1808
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:46,600
and you know that John Morant. I wouldn't have expected

1809
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,359
John Morant to be involved in that deal, I will

1810
01:24:49,399 --> 01:24:52,800
say it does get What gets tough for them is

1811
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:56,920
that they're losing some of their best salary. I say,

1812
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:00,600
some like Lukenard's in expiring contract. They did just get

1813
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:03,560
Marvin Bagley, so him expiring doesn't matter that much. But

1814
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,720
so if you're not, like just losing even that nine

1815
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:09,279
million dollars from Luke Canard, what are you gonna step

1816
01:25:09,359 --> 01:25:11,640
ladder your way to I guess is more to my points,

1817
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:13,079
So do you have to if you're looking at a

1818
01:25:13,159 --> 01:25:16,399
Kevin Durant or something that major, I guess Desmond Baine

1819
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,199
or John Morant has to be included then at that

1820
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:23,000
point and then don't is there a tier of salary

1821
01:25:23,119 --> 01:25:25,399
down that like, because you couldn't even at this point,

1822
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:26,920
it would be tough for them to make the math

1823
01:25:27,399 --> 01:25:28,880
not impossible, be tough for them to make the math

1824
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:30,600
work if they decided they wanted to be the Paul

1825
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:34,960
George team without including the Desmond Bane or Ja Morant

1826
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:36,560
salary based off what's on their books.

1827
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an increasingly prevalent problem right with just you

1828
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,000
you the mid the mid tier or just I don't know,

1829
01:25:43,039 --> 01:25:46,560
call it the like the non super duperstar salary figures

1830
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,760
the twenties and thirties that are like, really can facilitate

1831
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:51,239
a deal as I would.

1832
01:25:51,039 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 1: You think their fifth on the book guaranteed money next year?

1833
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,239
Their fourth highest paid players Brandon Clark at twelve and

1834
01:25:57,279 --> 01:26:00,520
a half and then John Concerts fifth at six point two.

1835
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:05,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, tough, tough to get there. We should note that

1836
01:26:05,159 --> 01:26:07,439
Zach Kleman did basically come out and say because some

1837
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:11,000
of the Morant chatter had had risen in volume, like

1838
01:26:11,119 --> 01:26:14,199
basically said like, talk all you want, we hear it,

1839
01:26:14,239 --> 01:26:16,359
but we're not trading him like that, you know what

1840
01:26:16,279 --> 01:26:18,720
is what he which is Like? Even that made me

1841
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,600
think like, oh, they're going to trade him because you know,

1842
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,760
you didn't come out and say that unless unless you like,

1843
01:26:24,199 --> 01:26:26,159
I don't know, it's just probably being too cynical, but

1844
01:26:26,159 --> 01:26:27,399
you know what I mean, the fact that he came

1845
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:30,199
out and did that, like just don't say anything now

1846
01:26:30,319 --> 01:26:32,239
now my antennae are up even more.

1847
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 1: He probably could have said something like Ja Morant was

1848
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,520
never a vail, like could you have could you have

1849
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,359
made more pinpoint like targeteds at Ja Morant. We did

1850
01:26:40,399 --> 01:26:43,560
not take any calls on Jahn Morant this trade deadline

1851
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:44,319
or something where then.

1852
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,239
Speaker 2: And we certainly didn't call anybody about him, like, yeah

1853
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,560
you could, you could be pretty pretty direct, but the

1854
01:26:51,079 --> 01:26:54,640
it felt like a little protesting too much. It felt

1855
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:56,840
like a little over compensation maybe from him.

1856
01:26:56,960 --> 01:26:59,039
Speaker 1: Now, what would be this Let's just say, I mean,

1857
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:01,239
even now we're doing a bunch of projecting here, what

1858
01:27:01,319 --> 01:27:04,199
is the scale of move that you think makes it like?

1859
01:27:04,199 --> 01:27:04,680
Speaker 2: Could you do?

1860
01:27:05,079 --> 01:27:07,159
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'll make him available, but if he's healthy,

1861
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,520
does herb Jones like is that someone that said okay,

1862
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:12,439
like the Grizzlies feel like an actual title threat with him?

1863
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:14,600
Or does it need to be a better let's say,

1864
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:16,760
maybe a more dynamic offensive player than that.

1865
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:19,520
Speaker 2: No? No, So I think there has to be a

1866
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:23,079
caveat which is like Jamran is healthy and at least,

1867
01:27:23,239 --> 01:27:27,000
you know, playing close to peak levels, then herb Jones

1868
01:27:27,079 --> 01:27:29,920
is like more than enough, I think, because like that's

1869
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,439
just what they got to have. I mean, maybe you'd

1870
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:34,239
like it if he was a higher volume three point shooter,

1871
01:27:34,319 --> 01:27:37,199
but like that level of big wing defender that can

1872
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,880
guard guys that Jah can't, and that can guard guys

1873
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,119
that bane you don't want to use it on and

1874
01:27:43,159 --> 01:27:45,960
up to your power forward really like that? Would that

1875
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:48,840
would do it for me? I think, right, like, do

1876
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:50,279
you think they need someone better than that?

1877
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: I go back and forth because I still think one

1878
01:27:54,039 --> 01:27:56,119
of their biggest problems is going to be their offense

1879
01:27:56,159 --> 01:27:59,159
in the playoffs. And it's funny because as we're talking,

1880
01:27:59,159 --> 01:28:01,800
like we've seen their defense and slip more than their offense.

1881
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:05,319
But just like that first shot half court offense, it's

1882
01:28:05,359 --> 01:28:07,720
not Gangbusters. And maybe that comes back to you have

1883
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:09,680
to really believe in the John Morant, Desmond Bay and

1884
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,079
Jaron Jackson junior of it all. But I would almost

1885
01:28:12,159 --> 01:28:14,880
wonder if someone like and Andrew Wiggins, who in theory

1886
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:18,159
provides more floor spacing, would do more like more for

1887
01:28:18,239 --> 01:28:21,399
them in that capacity. But I don't This is say,

1888
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:23,920
I don't think they need to be a Kevin Durant

1889
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,119
team towards Do we need to give up Desmond Bain, Like,

1890
01:28:26,119 --> 01:28:28,520
because would you give up if you're the Grizzlies. I

1891
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:31,000
guess you have to give up Desmond Bane for Kevin Durant.

1892
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:33,000
If push comes to shove, are you giving up Desmond

1893
01:28:33,039 --> 01:28:34,159
Baine for Paul George?

1894
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 2: No? No, with you, I don't think so. I mean

1895
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,960
for Durant I would, but even that is kind of like,

1896
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:44,600
you know, got Baine. Well, I think Bain's contract is

1897
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:48,600
still fine, but like it's not it's not a total

1898
01:28:49,199 --> 01:28:51,439
you know, it's not a not a huge value. I

1899
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,159
don't think anymore. Is maybe we thought that when he

1900
01:28:54,239 --> 01:28:58,199
signed it too, you know. I think ultimately I believe

1901
01:28:58,319 --> 01:29:02,840
that the Moran Baine Jazz and trio if healthy, Like

1902
01:29:03,239 --> 01:29:06,520
that's I think that's another Now the evidence suggestsed isn't it.

1903
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:08,800
But I I still have a pretty easy time putting

1904
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,000
my faith in them as like, okay, the offense with

1905
01:29:11,039 --> 01:29:14,159
those three guys like and just non zero's at the

1906
01:29:14,159 --> 01:29:16,600
other two spots, like in a closing line, like that

1907
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:18,680
should be good enough. It doesn't it feel like that

1908
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:19,479
should be enough?

1909
01:29:20,279 --> 01:29:24,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just they really, Yes, I do feel like

1910
01:29:24,399 --> 01:29:26,119
it should be enough. I'm with you there, But doesn't

1911
01:29:26,119 --> 01:29:29,000
it feel like you need to be more particular about

1912
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:31,479
who is in those final two spots that yeah, you

1913
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,680
would with another type of starish trio.

1914
01:29:34,119 --> 01:29:36,520
Speaker 2: So so like if it weren't Herb Jones and it

1915
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:38,560
with Trey Murphy like they're never gonna get him. But

1916
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:41,119
then you're like, okay, we're like good that that is

1917
01:29:41,239 --> 01:29:45,119
that's enough like offensively for sure, But I think somewhere

1918
01:29:45,119 --> 01:29:47,000
between those two guys would be fine, even if it's

1919
01:29:47,079 --> 01:29:49,920
Jones and if Jackson's at the five and you can

1920
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:54,000
find another like if it's Cam Johnson, you know, someone

1921
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:57,039
like that. I think. I think then I feel fine

1922
01:29:57,319 --> 01:30:00,359
because I do still just believe those three guys should

1923
01:30:00,359 --> 01:30:02,920
be good enough offensively to get away with it.

1924
01:30:03,159 --> 01:30:04,640
Speaker 1: Do you know what I thought about when the Ja

1925
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:06,840
Morant it wasn't even a rumor, and Howard Beck made

1926
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,880
that clearness. He's like the executive speculating about Joa Moran's future.

1927
01:30:10,199 --> 01:30:12,720
I don't actually know what this would solve, but in

1928
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:14,880
my head I was like, what if Milwaukee called you

1929
01:30:15,119 --> 01:30:20,119
and wanted Ja Morant Edie picks for Giannis because Jannis

1930
01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:22,279
wanted out? Don't you almost have to do that? But

1931
01:30:22,279 --> 01:30:26,119
then it's sort of like you're upgrading, like a situation

1932
01:30:26,159 --> 01:30:28,640
that's kind of like are you down you're downgrading your

1933
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:31,640
half court creation. Johann is a great passer, okay, like

1934
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:34,199
he's really mid range game really working this year for him.

1935
01:30:34,199 --> 01:30:36,399
I think that's opened up his passing as well. You

1936
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,560
have to do it, but is that would you look

1937
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,600
at the Grizzlies and say finish content like Jared Jackson junior,

1938
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:46,039
Desmond being Giannis and then what is Scottie Pippen junior

1939
01:30:46,119 --> 01:30:49,079
or Vince Williams junior, Like that's the de facto point

1940
01:30:49,079 --> 01:30:51,880
guard there. I think you get enough playmaking out of

1941
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:54,840
Gianni's and Desmond Baine to try it, But that would

1942
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,279
be you'd be It'd be a weird situation, right.

1943
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 2: I want to make clear I would try it, that

1944
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:02,000
would be very interested in.

1945
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:05,119
Speaker 1: Trying that, honest and jarring Jackson Junior in the same

1946
01:31:05,159 --> 01:31:05,640
front court.

1947
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:09,880
Speaker 2: It's hard to envision a compliment, to be honest, that

1948
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:13,239
would be better than Jackson. I think it's no problem

1949
01:31:13,239 --> 01:31:14,439
playing those two guys together.

1950
01:31:15,079 --> 01:31:17,359
Speaker 1: Do you think the Grizzlies will this is the way

1951
01:31:17,399 --> 01:31:19,479
to frame it for them. Will they acquire someone a

1952
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:22,000
new player who's a part of their most used closing

1953
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:26,239
lineup next year. I'm gonna manifest a yes, this could,

1954
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:28,479
I guess if they go deep in the playoffs. But

1955
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:32,199
I don't have the utmost confidence in this team as

1956
01:31:32,199 --> 01:31:32,960
a playoff group.

1957
01:31:33,199 --> 01:31:35,239
Speaker 2: I was gonna say yes, no matter what, and it

1958
01:31:35,279 --> 01:31:39,199
would be it'll be an emphatic yes if and this,

1959
01:31:39,199 --> 01:31:41,359
This will be the way it goes south. They get

1960
01:31:41,359 --> 01:31:43,720
into a playoff series and they can't score like that,

1961
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:46,760
then it's just like you've got no cover for running

1962
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:47,680
it back next year.

1963
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 1: Now this this is a dark horse that was forced

1964
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:54,119
on to the podcast. Kyrie Irving out for the season

1965
01:31:54,359 --> 01:31:58,039
torn acl Nico Harrison is convinced that in his thirties,

1966
01:31:58,079 --> 01:31:59,880
he's gonna come back better than ever from a torn AC.

1967
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:05,079
Here's hoping that absolutely happens. They always, I guess, could

1968
01:32:05,119 --> 01:32:08,039
have made this list. But their season's over. I mean

1969
01:32:08,079 --> 01:32:09,640
you could argue it was over from the moment they

1970
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,840
traded Luka Doncic, to be clear, But you're dealing with

1971
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:17,520
injuries to Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, Daniel Gafford, Derek Lively.

1972
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:21,399
The second hasn't played in forever. Caleb Martin wasn't playing

1973
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:26,039
before he even traded for him. They should be tanking,

1974
01:32:26,159 --> 01:32:28,199
Like I guess my point is, what's the point of

1975
01:32:28,199 --> 01:32:29,479
even bringing Anthony Davis back?

1976
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 2: Don't do it if you're Anthony.

1977
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,159
Speaker 1: Davis and I did mention this now by like we

1978
01:32:35,319 --> 01:32:37,960
talked about it previously, you mean by saying, isn't there

1979
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:40,159
a party that just wants to escape the specter of

1980
01:32:40,239 --> 01:32:42,520
the Luca trade from being in Dallas. But now I'm

1981
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:46,039
just like, why do you want to stay there with that? Like,

1982
01:32:46,039 --> 01:32:50,399
because Kyrie this injury, I would think it torpedoes at

1983
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,359
least a quarter of his season next year?

1984
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 2: Right, Oh more than that, I think you right off

1985
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,039
next year. I really do. I think in terms of like,

1986
01:32:59,199 --> 01:33:01,119
good Kyrie, just I don't think you're going to get

1987
01:33:01,199 --> 01:33:02,439
him that.

1988
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,800
Speaker 1: So why does Anthony Davis want to be there right now? Then?

1989
01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:09,279
Couldn't he come and say, like his leverage would be

1990
01:33:09,319 --> 01:33:10,960
what it is when you look at his contract, but

1991
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,560
trade me, I have to be here. I mean he

1992
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,119
did kind of he waved his not like his tradekicker

1993
01:33:16,159 --> 01:33:18,560
to be there. But I just don't like this. I'm

1994
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:22,640
not necessarily predicting it, but what is who is the

1995
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:25,079
player that is holding this team in place? Now?

1996
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,680
Speaker 2: I think the first thing you said is one of

1997
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:30,720
the first thoughts I had after the trade is like,

1998
01:33:31,319 --> 01:33:34,640
Anthony Davis is in an impossible position. It's not his fault,

1999
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:38,119
but like he's the guy that's there now and Luca isn't,

2000
01:33:38,279 --> 01:33:41,000
And and that just carries with it such a weight that,

2001
01:33:41,119 --> 01:33:43,600
like even before the Kyrie injury, I was just like

2002
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:45,760
I would want out of there so fast if I

2003
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:49,199
were him, and like, apparently the relationship between him and

2004
01:33:49,239 --> 01:33:52,800
Nico Harrison is powerful and like meaningful, and that's part

2005
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,079
of the reason he's there. But if like, then in

2006
01:33:56,119 --> 01:33:59,119
that case, Nico should understand when Anthony Davis comes to

2007
01:33:59,159 --> 01:34:01,680
him and says, like this is an I can't be here,

2008
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:05,399
like this is unsustainable for me. And now in addition

2009
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:07,319
to that, you have the whole like, well, next year's

2010
01:34:07,359 --> 01:34:10,079
kind of a wash because Kyrie is gonna miss most

2011
01:34:10,079 --> 01:34:13,119
of it and who knows how he's gonna come back.

2012
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:17,920
So like, if I'm and then if you're Dallas, it

2013
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:22,720
would be indefensible. But they've they're already like nobody, you know,

2014
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:25,520
everybody's as mad as they can be. To pivot into

2015
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:28,920
we're trading Anthony Davis to like replenish our draft store

2016
01:34:29,039 --> 01:34:32,720
and start rebuilding. Like man, that would be brutal, but

2017
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:35,800
like it almost feels like the right decision at this point,

2018
01:34:35,880 --> 01:34:38,319
don't you think, Like, because if the alternative is let's

2019
01:34:38,319 --> 01:34:42,279
trade Davis for another really good player and he's just

2020
01:34:42,319 --> 01:34:44,560
here by himself too, then like what's there you don't

2021
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:45,479
get better that way.

2022
01:34:46,119 --> 01:34:48,520
Speaker 1: I guess the issue is if you do that, you

2023
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:51,000
have no means to save face because you could have

2024
01:34:51,079 --> 01:34:53,840
just gotten the hall that you're gonna prioritize with Davis.

2025
01:34:53,880 --> 01:34:57,239
You could have gotten more had you prioritized that hall

2026
01:34:57,319 --> 01:34:59,640
with Luka Dacic, which I'm not saying this would have

2027
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,279
been except if you were trading Luka Doncic. That's what

2028
01:35:02,319 --> 01:35:04,079
you should have been doing in the first place.

2029
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 2: Well, the other thing is like if the theory of

2030
01:35:08,079 --> 01:35:12,239
targeting Davis in addition to Harrison and Polenka had a

2031
01:35:12,239 --> 01:35:15,239
good relationship and that's part why he went there, If

2032
01:35:15,239 --> 01:35:17,439
the theory of targeting Davis was like, no, no, no,

2033
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:20,800
he's that good to where he's the central figure, and yeah,

2034
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:22,760
it'd be nice if Kyrie were there, but he's not

2035
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:25,760
like indispensable to the process because Davis is the core.

2036
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:29,760
We can build you know, a real contender around Davis

2037
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:31,720
as the number one guy, which by the way, has

2038
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:35,479
just not ever been true. Like, if that's the theory

2039
01:35:35,479 --> 01:35:39,279
of it, then I still think Dallas belongs here because

2040
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:42,119
you're remaking a huge portion of the roster around him,

2041
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:44,760
not the least of which is you need a primary

2042
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:46,840
ball handler because Kyrie will not be it for a

2043
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:49,359
large portion of next year. And I don't know where

2044
01:35:49,359 --> 01:35:50,359
they go get that guy.

2045
01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 1: You know it's and there. I guess. So they have

2046
01:35:53,119 --> 01:35:55,920
this year's pick, they have next year's pick, then they

2047
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:58,840
owe they don't control the next four. They don't control

2048
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:03,079
twenty seven, twenty nine or twenty thirty. I don't know.

2049
01:36:03,119 --> 01:36:05,960
Like I guess you do have the matching salary to

2050
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:08,840
go out and get somebody to do that, But who

2051
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:12,159
is the They've been mentioned as a Kevin Durant destination.

2052
01:36:12,239 --> 01:36:15,520
It just feels I don't understand. I don't necessarily understand.

2053
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:18,199
Then doubling down on that, they could probably make the

2054
01:36:18,239 --> 01:36:19,720
money work, and I guess you have the first round

2055
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,199
equity to make it work. I just don't even know

2056
01:36:22,279 --> 01:36:25,399
if that makes me feel better about traveling down the

2057
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:28,199
more immediate path. It feels now with the Kyrie injury,

2058
01:36:28,199 --> 01:36:32,760
more so than anything, it just feels like post Luke,

2059
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:35,560
Like post Lucas should have always been a rebuild. There

2060
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:37,960
shouldn't be a post Luca era, let me make it clear,

2061
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,680
but it should have been about a rebuild. Now just

2062
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:41,920
feels like with the injury to Anthony Davis and his

2063
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:44,479
MAV's debut, the injury to Kyrie, just all the other

2064
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,119
stuff they've been dealing with. What is the other option?

2065
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,960
And I just I'd be a little bit surprised if

2066
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:52,600
they're the team that's able to get Kevin Durant. Maybe

2067
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:54,439
he wants to play with Kyrie vering again, but you're

2068
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:56,880
gonna have to when you're looking at the salaries to

2069
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,680
get there, Like that's gonna take a pretty like bigger

2070
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:02,960
chunk of your rotation. Like we're talking, We're not talking

2071
01:37:03,039 --> 01:37:05,840
you trade two players and get Kevin Durant. You're trading

2072
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:07,439
three at least at.

2073
01:37:07,399 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 2: Least right, And it's it's guys like just to go

2074
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:14,079
down the salary list like Thompson at almost seventeen, PJ.

2075
01:37:14,319 --> 01:37:17,720
Washington at fourteen, and Gafford at another fourteen. Like then

2076
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:21,359
you're in. You're in the neighborhood then, But like what

2077
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:23,319
does that least? And if I'm Phoenix, I'm like, you're

2078
01:37:23,319 --> 01:37:25,359
gonna need to give me Derek Lively, Like that's he's

2079
01:37:25,399 --> 01:37:28,760
gonna have to be in the deal. It's it's brutal.

2080
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:31,560
I mean, you can't really trade Kyrie. I don't think

2081
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:32,720
like nobody's gonna.

2082
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 1: Want an expiring contract.

2083
01:37:34,119 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like as as for a worse, longer term deal,

2084
01:37:38,199 --> 01:37:42,000
yeah it they will have to if well, they should

2085
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:45,720
look different, But can't you imagine Dallas just coming back

2086
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:47,800
with like, well, we got we're gonna have Jaden Hardy

2087
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:50,159
on the ball, and Max Christy looks really good, and

2088
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:54,760
we got three big, three big guys. We can't play

2089
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:58,239
any of them together, Like you know, I they should

2090
01:37:58,279 --> 01:38:01,119
look different, but who knows with this with this team

2091
01:38:01,159 --> 01:38:01,680
now And.

2092
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 1: The other thing that I didn't mention if you are

2093
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:05,960
going to go, I don't know if it's a consolidation rout,

2094
01:38:06,079 --> 01:38:08,680
like we're gonna trade assets to get because they have

2095
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:10,960
an addition, they they have the Lakers pick in twenty

2096
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:13,319
twenty nine, they can move as well. If you're going

2097
01:38:13,359 --> 01:38:16,359
to trade for someone giving up higher end assets, you

2098
01:38:16,399 --> 01:38:18,319
then need to be short, like they can't be redundant

2099
01:38:18,359 --> 01:38:20,159
with Kyrie Irving, so it has to be someone that

2100
01:38:20,199 --> 01:38:23,119
can play with him. So you're looking at either like

2101
01:38:23,199 --> 01:38:25,239
a much bigger guard, or then it's like, well we

2102
01:38:25,239 --> 01:38:27,680
need more of a point wing at this point, and

2103
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,520
those aren't growing on trees themselves. And then it comes

2104
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:33,279
back to the salary thing is they also kind of

2105
01:38:33,279 --> 01:38:34,720
need to be semi cheap where it's a two for

2106
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:36,439
one rather than a three or four for one.

2107
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:40,119
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's it's tough that the money's gonna be

2108
01:38:40,119 --> 01:38:43,920
tricky no matter how they structure it. I think. Yeah, sorry,

2109
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:46,319
sorry to include Dallas, but they we didn't have a choice.

2110
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 1: Look, there are season ticket prices next Ye're only going

2111
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:50,840
up eight percent grant, So I don't really see what

2112
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:51,479
the big deal is.

2113
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 2: It's a bargain that.

2114
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 1: Was an exercise. Those are the ten teams that we

2115
01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:57,479
went through. I don't think there was anyone I went

2116
01:38:57,479 --> 01:38:59,079
through the rest of the league and was kind of like,

2117
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:01,439
feels like Austin would still be a year away if

2118
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:04,560
we're going to get into financial constraints. Tear down Atlanta

2119
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:07,600
could have been interesting because of Trey Young. Uh just

2120
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:10,119
he's going into the final guaranteed year of his deal

2121
01:39:10,159 --> 01:39:13,960
before free agency. But they actually feel like they're actively building,

2122
01:39:14,039 --> 01:39:15,720
just like, let's see if we can build a defensive

2123
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,039
monster around Jalen Johnson and Trey Young. Feels like the

2124
01:39:18,079 --> 01:39:20,560
direction they're headed down. Any other team that would be

2125
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:22,279
an honorable mentioned.

2126
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:25,239
Speaker 2: For you, depending on what you know, if they get

2127
01:39:25,279 --> 01:39:27,600
six or seven first round picks back when they trade

2128
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,319
mckel bridges, then they'll probably look pretty different when they

2129
01:39:30,359 --> 01:39:32,359
flip all those picks. But that's what they'll get, right.

2130
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: That comes with riding a high off a twelve point

2131
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,840
victory over the Knicks the night before we record this

2132
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:42,000
A little bit, a little bit different just because they're

2133
01:39:42,039 --> 01:39:44,199
like their picks are. We don't even know if they're

2134
01:39:44,199 --> 01:39:46,159
going to convey this year, but if they don't convey

2135
01:39:46,199 --> 01:39:49,319
this year's pick, it's almost incumbent on them to look

2136
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:51,760
different so that they can be good and not convey

2137
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:53,720
really good picks to other teams.

2138
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:57,199
Speaker 2: That and you just have to obligatorily throw Miami in

2139
01:39:57,239 --> 01:40:00,840
to the like, well it's so and so Star is available,

2140
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:03,520
Miami is among the pursuers, like because they they have

2141
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:05,800
as good a chance as almost anybody is, just adding

2142
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:07,920
a huge name because that's what they seem to want

2143
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:08,119
to do.

2144
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:11,119
Speaker 1: And just the two final teams I mentioned, I was

2145
01:40:11,159 --> 01:40:13,079
curious if he thought, could it be New Orleans if

2146
01:40:13,079 --> 01:40:14,800
they end up winning the draft lottery, would it just

2147
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:17,439
be like, let's trade Zion. He's playing, well, let's trade

2148
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:20,039
him now, and we're gonna rebuild around Cooper Flag and

2149
01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:20,640
trade Murphy.

2150
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:24,399
Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, for sure, I could see that. Isn't

2151
01:40:24,399 --> 01:40:27,479
it just the whole It's just the Zion thing in

2152
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:29,520
a nutshell where like because he looks so good lately,

2153
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:31,359
like you can never trade this guy, look how good

2154
01:40:31,359 --> 01:40:32,920
he is. It's like, this is when you should trade him.

2155
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:35,840
Do it now before before anybody catches on, before he gets.

2156
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:38,399
Speaker 1: Hurt again, anybody catches on, Like, we don't have more

2157
01:40:38,399 --> 01:40:41,479
and a half decades, nobody's nobody's quite up to speed on.

2158
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:42,680
Speaker 2: He's not super durable.

2159
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,039
Speaker 1: So there will be people who say, okay, se could

2160
01:40:45,079 --> 01:40:47,159
make a consolidation trade. I think that'll always just be

2161
01:40:47,239 --> 01:40:49,840
the case with the assets they have. Yeah, one team

2162
01:40:50,279 --> 01:40:51,840
that I think it would be worth talking about more

2163
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:55,600
so after we see them in the playoffs Milwaukee, Yeah,

2164
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:58,159
what does Gianna says that they're gonna have to drag

2165
01:40:58,199 --> 01:40:59,600
him out of town if he ever leaves, But he's

2166
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:01,560
also said that he wants to be in a position

2167
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:03,840
to win and kind of so that would just be

2168
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:06,000
a team. I'm not predicting it, but that because we

2169
01:41:06,039 --> 01:41:08,279
didn't include them here, that's the team where it's like

2170
01:41:08,359 --> 01:41:10,960
I could see them looking a lot different depending on

2171
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:13,079
how the playoffs. Like maybe even Damian Lillard just says

2172
01:41:13,079 --> 01:41:15,199
this isn't it like with this for me, like after

2173
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:18,680
for the second year. So that's the team that's left

2174
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:20,399
that I feel like could be defined the most by

2175
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:21,479
what happens in the playoffs.

2176
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:24,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good pick among playoff teams. I'm hard pressed.

2177
01:41:24,319 --> 01:41:28,640
I mean Detroit, Like, if Detroit just decides, hey, we

2178
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:30,880
did we did better than we thought in the playoffs,

2179
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:33,479
maybe and then like now it's time to make a

2180
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,439
decision on the Ivy Durham, Holland Thompson thing, we you know,

2181
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:39,600
we throw them in a deal for like a more

2182
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,279
established current name. I'm not saying I would do that,

2183
01:41:42,359 --> 01:41:44,399
but like maybe those kinds of decisions get raised.

2184
01:41:45,359 --> 01:41:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought about Chicago too, but they're just never

2185
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:49,199
going to look a lot and I don't even know

2186
01:41:49,239 --> 01:41:51,359
what a lot different. Like, Okay, if you trade Kobe White,

2187
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:53,960
that's one, but who else needs to gouch isn't going

2188
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:54,720
to ruin a tank.

2189
01:41:55,039 --> 01:41:57,199
Speaker 2: They're just going to extend Ucevic again. That'll be the

2190
01:41:57,199 --> 01:41:58,319
big difference over this time.

2191
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,159
Speaker 1: I did think about to run in the sense of

2192
01:42:01,239 --> 01:42:03,239
just now they just have we we assume they're gonna

2193
01:42:03,319 --> 01:42:05,319
keep brandon ing. Remember what if they're could you see

2194
01:42:05,359 --> 01:42:07,079
them turn around and trade him for in like a

2195
01:42:07,159 --> 01:42:08,319
Kevin Durant package?

2196
01:42:09,039 --> 01:42:11,319
Speaker 2: Like how many times have we traded Kevin Durant today?

2197
01:42:11,319 --> 01:42:13,479
I guess we have to because he's clearly gonna get traded,

2198
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:14,239
But still.

2199
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:17,920
Speaker 1: That I think that's it. I'm the only other team finally,

2200
01:42:18,079 --> 01:42:20,920
just the Nuggets, but they're they have room beneath the

2201
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,159
apron next year, So it's just if they're gonna with

2202
01:42:23,319 --> 01:42:26,279
Christian Brown being extension eligible and Peyton Watson right behind him,

2203
01:42:26,279 --> 01:42:29,119
it feels like we're a year away from them looking

2204
01:42:29,159 --> 01:42:32,359
inward and saying one of the non Jokic, really high

2205
01:42:32,399 --> 01:42:33,640
paid players needs to go.

2206
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:37,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless they get like bounced really in an ugly

2207
01:42:37,159 --> 01:42:38,640
way in the first round, and then it's like, well,

2208
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:41,479
Porter Junior or maybe Gordon or somebody like that, they

2209
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:42,279
start thinking.

2210
01:42:42,039 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 1: About, uh, you ready to take us out of here?

2211
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Remember wherever you're

2212
01:42:47,279 --> 01:42:50,000
getting your podcast, rate review subscribe there. If you're watching

2213
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:51,840
this on YouTube, leave us a comment, give us a

2214
01:42:52,119 --> 01:42:53,880
give us your feedback on any teams we should have

2215
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:57,520
included any moves we didn't, you know, discuss. I've just

2216
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:00,119
recalled because I think about these things. Tis Jones is

2217
01:43:00,119 --> 01:43:04,119
an unrestricted free agent, so maybe like he'll, uh, he'll affect.

2218
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:08,319
Speaker 1: Phoenix's outlook next year to play anymore, because Gillespie is

2219
01:43:08,359 --> 01:43:09,399
now like that he's out.

2220
01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, forget it, he's he's not gonna have a job.

2221
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:14,680
What else? Join our discord links for that YouTube and

2222
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:17,319
podcast description. Sell your friends, Hill your enemies, shouts Franklin

2223
01:43:17,399 --> 01:43:18,800
the King. Apologies, Jared Allen