Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Graham True gram podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good morning the following podcast. It contains grabbing content
Speaker 1: and material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is ad.
Speaker 2: We just lost ten viewers probably listeners. Listeners.
Speaker 1: Listeners. Yeah, sorry, they don't.
Speaker 2: Like when we sing, but you know what, we're here
Speaker 2: to be our own people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are be your own peoples, do your own thing.
Speaker 2: I think that's that. Okay, that is literally I wasn't.
Speaker 2: This is sorry. I'm going on a tangent already and
Speaker 2: we're like thirty seconds in. But that's what people say
Speaker 2: when they like get old and on their deathbed. Oh
Speaker 2: Ripley is a squeak toy that when people get old
Speaker 2: and on their deathbed that they wished that they wouldn't
Speaker 2: have worried so much what people had to say and
Speaker 2: just did their own shit, right.
Speaker 1: I never worry about people worrying our opinion. Fuck people,
Speaker 1: people suck, I.
Speaker 2: Know, but people should just do what they want to
Speaker 2: do in life.
Speaker 1: They should, But then you end up with people like
Speaker 1: fucking Robert Hanson in the world and that dude is
Speaker 1: a fucking douche canoe.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think as long as it's like socially acceptable,
Speaker 2: well yeah, what is socially acceptable? As long as it's
Speaker 2: not hurting what could you say, hurting other individuals?
Speaker 1: Yeah, per se. But even still, even if it's not
Speaker 1: hurting other people, because there's people who just like exist
Speaker 1: and I just wish they didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean, it's like you, but
Speaker 2: don't be this guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, be yourself, but don't be fucking annoying. Don't be
Speaker 1: one of those people who people wish you weren't a people.
Speaker 1: Yeah kind of people.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, people like this dude. Okay,
Speaker 2: well you made us wait long enough, my love.
Speaker 1: I am going to make you wait a slight bit
Speaker 1: more before we continue onto Robert Hanson because we've got
Speaker 1: to drop the merch notification. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this like rocks my world.
Speaker 1: So as of right now, we are recording on Saturday,
Speaker 1: December fourth, and we are uploading today as well later
Speaker 1: on this evening Saturday, December fourth, But we only have
Speaker 1: another couple of days for our merch before it's going
Speaker 1: to be launched for the public. And as of right now,
Speaker 1: we have an exclusive Patreon only.
Speaker 2: Design only available to Patreons.
Speaker 1: Right now, only available for Patreon before we do the
Speaker 1: public launch, we are taking that design down for it
Speaker 1: to never be available again. So the only time you
Speaker 1: can ever get this specific design is through Patreon. And
Speaker 1: then I think we might get like a sticker or
Speaker 1: too and do giveaways.
Speaker 2: I think that we should do a little giveaway with
Speaker 2: some Jackal merch, but the odds of winning that are
Speaker 2: slim to none. It's slim.
Speaker 1: So if you want to ensure that you get it,
Speaker 1: go over to sign up for Patreon and get that
Speaker 1: access before it's gone for ever's And then we launched
Speaker 1: the rest of the merch to public.
Speaker 2: Because there's Jacko socks. I knew this, but then I
Speaker 2: rediscovered it.
Speaker 1: Redisa excited.
Speaker 2: I'm getting Jacko socks.
Speaker 1: That's totally I'm gonna wear.
Speaker 2: Them to bed like real sexy do it like basically
Speaker 2: the sexiest you can be wear.
Speaker 1: Those socks when we okay, so Jacko can.
Speaker 2: Be Oh my god, that's too far, too far?
Speaker 1: Why you don't want Jacko to join us in the bedroom? No? Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: all right, well that aside, you ready to move on?
Speaker 1: To part two of this fucking douchebag known as Robert Hanson.
Speaker 2: I am totally ready.
Speaker 1: Are you sure you're ready? I don't know your seatbelt
Speaker 1: is buckled. You got a drink in your hand?
Speaker 2: I got tea, calming tea.
Speaker 1: Calming tea. We're good, fair enough that that will help,
Speaker 1: That will definitely help. While my microphone likes sprung back
Speaker 1: or something. Look at us.
Speaker 2: We are a shit show.
Speaker 1: We are, but it's also wicked and grim. That's to
Speaker 1: be expected.
Speaker 2: That's literally us.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's kind of give a recap on where
Speaker 1: we left off. So Robert Hansen began what he would
Speaker 1: later refer to as his serial rapist start official start
Speaker 1: of becoming a serial rapist. It was in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: three when he began frequently picking up sex workers in
Speaker 1: his car to take them away. So that's right where
Speaker 1: we left off.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, and he's married and has a family,
Speaker 2: which is disgusting.
Speaker 1: And his wife somehow just didn't know this was all
Speaker 1: going on. We're not going to drag her down for that.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. But if you need to
Speaker 1: know more, I can't sum up the first episode in
Speaker 1: all of it Robert Hanson's the douchebag. He's a serial rapist,
Speaker 1: as we just said, and he's going to move on
Speaker 1: to not only raping, button murdering here in part two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it.
Speaker 1: Gets worse exactly. So if you haven't listened to part one,
Speaker 1: go listen to it, because we're going to go on
Speaker 1: and continue the rest from here. Here we go, ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen and days in them. Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay. So reports are coming in from the police all
Speaker 1: about women beginning to go missing and others being raped.
Speaker 1: But it like it's seriously unfortunate. But police weren't taking
Speaker 1: many of the reports.
Speaker 2: Very seriously, which I don't love.
Speaker 1: Right as it was all sex workers basically, that's why.
Speaker 1: And we're all familiar with the troubles sex workers go
Speaker 1: through with law enforcement not being taken seriously. And like
Speaker 1: I said, we covered it a fair bit in the
Speaker 1: last episode, so we're not going to dive into it
Speaker 1: here too much. Yeah, but to sum it up, the
Speaker 1: lifestyle leaves them with less than being less than credible
Speaker 1: when it comes to law enforcement. So Robert began frequently
Speaker 1: stalking the red light district again, but this time in
Speaker 1: a different way. As previously, he would sit in his car,
Speaker 1: mostly on the side, not going to the clubs too much,
Speaker 1: but he did just observing, observing from a distance, watching creeper.
Speaker 1: Things began to change a little bit. He was still
Speaker 1: a creeper, don't get me fucking wrong there. This guy
Speaker 1: fucked this guy, but he began to actually enter the
Speaker 1: dance clubs and bars on a much more frequent basis,
Speaker 1: searching for his victims.
Speaker 2: So it's almost like he got more brave, hey, more confidence, Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is weird. I mean, I mean, I guess you
Speaker 2: can only you're going to progress, right, Well, he.
Speaker 1: Started out with like such a history of being bullied
Speaker 1: in everything, right as a team. So as he was
Speaker 1: now maybe talking to women, having the power over women,
Speaker 1: raping these women.
Speaker 2: Taking away more confidence, getting confidence in himself. I hate that.
Speaker 1: It's a fucking disgusting way to get confidence.
Speaker 2: It is so disgusting confidence, right.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure it did feed that confidence. So now
Speaker 1: he's beginning to feel like he is more powerful, Like
Speaker 1: he can walk in, he can go up to the
Speaker 1: girls sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Keep it like this community that they're living and is.
Speaker 1: Not large, right, you know, I never really did look
Speaker 1: up the population of Anchorage, and it's different for because
Speaker 1: it's like in the nineteen seventies as well, that's.
Speaker 2: True, but I just because I find that so mind
Speaker 2: blowing that like he has his family and the separate
Speaker 2: life and then like a good let or I don't know,
Speaker 2: normal life I guess you'd call it, and then this
Speaker 2: like dark life and that he can get away with
Speaker 2: it not crossing over whatsoever. That really odd.
Speaker 1: Well, Anchorage population today, as last taken in twenty nineteen, sorry,
Speaker 1: was two hundred ninety three thousand, So.
Speaker 2: It really in Alaska? Yeah, holy shit, Okay, I thought, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe this is stereotype. I didn't realize there was big
Speaker 2: cities in Alaska, Like I had absolutely no idea.
Speaker 1: Well, now you know, cool, I want.
Speaker 2: To go there even more.
Speaker 1: And the population in Anchorage, Alaska in the nineteen seventies
Speaker 1: was about fifty thousand, Okay, so it's gone up a
Speaker 1: lot since then.
Speaker 2: It has gone up a lot. And there still could
Speaker 2: be people though that he would know at in this
Speaker 2: these this red district or red light district. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: knows him from like his baking and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyone outside that, like his baking or his
Speaker 1: fellow church goers and stuff, most likely aren't going to
Speaker 1: be in that Red Lake district. But even if they
Speaker 1: do see him or whatever, they think of him as
Speaker 1: a good guy, that he's just an outstanding citizen. He's
Speaker 1: the baker, he goes to church. You know, they all
Speaker 1: got his back, even his hunter buddy. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: he's a good guy.
Speaker 2: So interesting.
Speaker 1: Now, when he actually did go up and he did
Speaker 1: approach women, or when he sat back and they approached him,
Speaker 1: his demeanor and stature often played in his favor with
Speaker 1: these extracurricular activities. That is what I'm going to say. Now. Remember,
Speaker 1: Robert wasn't necessarily a big, brooding man. Though he had
Speaker 1: improved his cutter large amount since his youth, it still
Speaker 1: did follow him into his adulthood. He wasn't a very
Speaker 1: large man, and he wore thick framed glasses. Of course,
Speaker 1: to top it all off, there were scars from sphere
Speaker 1: acne as a child.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: All in all, he just wasn't an imposing person, and
Speaker 1: it left many of the women who he talked to
Speaker 1: to feel very comfortable in his presence now, not necessarily
Speaker 1: in like a comforting way, not like comfortable as in
Speaker 1: he's comforting, but simply not feeling that there's any reason
Speaker 1: to fear him, right.
Speaker 2: You know, which is interesting because sometimes people like that
Speaker 2: you do actually need to fear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure that. Robert also did continue to steal,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't like anything that he went out of
Speaker 1: his way to do sort of thing. It was all
Speaker 1: mostly like just petty theft too. It was more for
Speaker 1: the thrill of it sort of thing. He didn't plan
Speaker 1: to steal. He just did it when he wanted to.
Speaker 1: In general, he considered it an easy, too easy to
Speaker 1: get away with, so it wasn't much of a challenge.
Speaker 1: But when he did do it, it was a spur
Speaker 1: of the moment. It was for the rush. In nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy six, though, he was caught for stealing a chainsaw
Speaker 1: from a local store that he wanted to give his
Speaker 1: father for Christmas. He didn't even try to purchase it though,
Speaker 1: He just apparently pulled out an old receipt from his pocket,
Speaker 1: put it on top of the box, and began walking
Speaker 1: out of the store like he paid for it. Wow,
Speaker 1: Like the fucking balls on that dude for that.
Speaker 2: That's ballsy.
Speaker 1: But little did he know someone seen him do it, So.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. This I just can't get over, like
Speaker 2: the two sides of this person's It blows my mind.
Speaker 1: To find the two sides like that.
Speaker 2: He's just like this community outstanding person, a family, like,
Speaker 2: has a family, married and stuff, and then like goes
Speaker 2: to the Red District steals like rapes. It just I
Speaker 2: don't know, I just can't imagine someone living like two
Speaker 2: different light like lives like that.
Speaker 1: That's your typical psychopath though abilities and it's just so
Speaker 1: far from anything that I would ever be able to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: It just blows my mind. It blows my mind.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough, Now where was I here? I
Speaker 1: totally lost my place? Okay, right, So Robert pleaded guilty
Speaker 1: to larcensey, larcency, larceny. There we go. After he was
Speaker 1: caught stealing the chainsaw from a fred Meyer, which is
Speaker 1: a department store that was an anchorage.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: He was sentenced to five years in prison for it,
Speaker 1: required to receive psychiatric treatment for his bipolar disorder. However,
Speaker 1: it's a long time. He appealed the sentence and the
Speaker 1: Alaska Stream Supreme Court reduced that sentence and he was
Speaker 1: released with time served, So basically the time that he
Speaker 1: was held up in the whole court system, most likely
Speaker 1: that's all he served, and once he was let out again,
Speaker 1: just continued to stalk the red light district. Right, that's
Speaker 1: a very big theme. As soon as he gets caught
Speaker 1: and put away, he's let go and just goes right
Speaker 1: back to it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because that need is really a burning while
Speaker 2: he's in it's burning.
Speaker 1: It's a burning, burns, burns, burns, a burning ring a fire. Okay,
Speaker 1: my terrible, terrible singing is going to just lose us
Speaker 1: fucking listeners left, bet and center. Oh well, it's all good,
Speaker 1: be yourself right, yourself unless you Yeah, So at this
Speaker 1: point he needed we need to backtrack a little bit. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 2: Sound good now.
Speaker 1: Robert loves hunting. We already covered that in the last episode.
Speaker 1: But if if he didn't listen or you don't remember,
Speaker 1: absolutely loves hunting, really good at it. He frequently spent
Speaker 1: his other other free time in the forest hunting, and
Speaker 1: he was out there with his hunting buddies' lots too.
Speaker 1: He did this on a regular basis, and he even
Speaker 1: got so he would like flying with his friends, going
Speaker 1: out to remote locations and hunting in these remote locations
Speaker 1: sort of thing.
Speaker 2: So that would be pretty fun actually probably, oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And for that purpose in one of these remote locations,
Speaker 1: Robert eventually purchased himself a cabin and a nice remote
Speaker 1: area accessible by only boat or plane.
Speaker 2: Fun.
Speaker 1: It was the perfect oays is, to get away and
Speaker 1: find wild game untouched by human interaction. One little problem, though,
Speaker 1: how would he get to this cabin if he couldn't
Speaker 1: drive there. He can't just keep renting planes or borrowing
Speaker 1: planes from friends or anything, right, Well, ended up purchasing
Speaker 1: a small two person plane called a Piper super Cup,
Speaker 1: which he used to travel to and from his cabin
Speaker 1: in the Kinnick River area in the Manusuit. I practiced
Speaker 1: how to say this. I practice. I swear matanuska, matanuska.
Speaker 1: There we go. I practiced so much it was just like,
Speaker 1: now that I hit the word, I couldn't say.
Speaker 2: This guy loaded no, actually, because who the hell can
Speaker 2: just buy a cabin in the woods and then buy
Speaker 2: a plane and.
Speaker 1: Shit, well, here's the deal. He was actually able to
Speaker 1: purchase the plane. Due to insurance fraud, he filed a
Speaker 1: claim that his house was broken into and someone had
Speaker 1: stole much of his hunting equipment, including guns, rifles, and
Speaker 1: his prized hunting trophies that were one of a kind,
Speaker 1: things like antlers and mounts and stuff, which mounts can
Speaker 1: be fucking expensive. You don't know that, Well, it's the
Speaker 1: contents of your home house insurance right from this claim,
Speaker 1: he ended up getting ten thousand dollars and he used
Speaker 1: it to purchase said plane.
Speaker 2: Huh wow, Yeah, I dislike him even more.
Speaker 1: Well, you'll dislike him when you realize that that plane
Speaker 1: was a plane he would eventually begin to use to
Speaker 1: bring his victims to a remote cabin deep in the
Speaker 1: forest of Alaska.
Speaker 2: No, yesh, did his wife ever go to this cabin?
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's very little out there on his wife.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, I'll stop talking about her. I just
Speaker 2: think this is just disgusting.
Speaker 1: Well, and I do know a very frequent question that
Speaker 1: people have is like, how can she not know this
Speaker 1: is going on? And I'm sure she has been berated
Speaker 1: with that throughout her life.
Speaker 2: Since Yeah, but I mean, it's easy to turn a
Speaker 2: blind eye to a loved one.
Speaker 1: It is right, and especially we did cover it in
Speaker 1: the other one. She was the type of person where
Speaker 1: her religion and everything was like, don't question your husband,
Speaker 1: it just you are there to support him sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if you had a sweet cabin in the woods,
Speaker 2: I would probably be there more than you escape in
Speaker 2: my regul.
Speaker 1: You would go there. Yeah, I think it's a little
Speaker 1: too far out even for you, though, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes just like escaping to like just this world that
Speaker 2: is just your own kind of seems intriguing.
Speaker 1: Isn't that what you have right now in a tiny home?
Speaker 2: No, well, because we still have people around us and shit, I.
Speaker 1: Guess okay, fair enough. Some of the women he began
Speaker 1: to eventually take to his cabin would be lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be flown back to Anchorage actually, and they would survive.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he would let them go on the basis that
Speaker 1: he believed they wouldn't tell anyone. Mostly though it's due
Speaker 1: to the fact that Robert was would terrify them enough
Speaker 1: to the point where that where they were afraid to
Speaker 1: say anything. So if he got to them enough, if
Speaker 1: he believed they're not going to talk, then he'd let
Speaker 1: them go, so.
Speaker 2: He's threatening them basically, yeah, very much like the individual
Speaker 2: in the last episode.
Speaker 1: Other women, however, are believed to have been set free
Speaker 1: among the Kinnick River, where Robert would simply tell them
Speaker 1: to run, like he had done in the past. There
Speaker 1: the women would be in the middle of the forest,
Speaker 1: terrified and most likely nude, while they ran for their
Speaker 1: lives from a man who had kidnapped and raped them,
Speaker 1: trying desperately to find a way to survive as he
Speaker 1: stalked them through the bush and yep, just hunted them
Speaker 1: like some sort of twisted game with his gun in
Speaker 1: hand and a big bush knife on his belt. This
Speaker 1: is where the tales of Robert having the whole hunting
Speaker 1: humans came from. However, none of these hunting people accusations
Speaker 1: have ever actually been proven.
Speaker 2: Which we'll look at where he's doing it, the dense
Speaker 2: forest and stuff. I feel like you could easily hide
Speaker 2: a body out there, could you not.
Speaker 1: That's oh, we're getting to the bodies. Don't worry about that.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the actions of hunting someone, letting them go,
Speaker 1: and hunting them has not been proven.
Speaker 2: What we do know, no one would know that, which
Speaker 2: I guess there's.
Speaker 1: No way of knowing that unless Robert came forward and
Speaker 1: admitted it, and he has.
Speaker 2: Not, so this is just speculation.
Speaker 1: Then it's speculation, but it is most likely in occurrence.
Speaker 2: Not necessary speculation though, because like from if they have
Speaker 2: been finding these bodies, they can maybe tell like from
Speaker 2: their feet or something. I don't know, I'm going to
Speaker 2: just keep listening, that.
Speaker 1: Would be a fairly decomposed body they'd most likely find touche.
Speaker 1: So basically it's speculation only because there were incidents where
Speaker 1: he has told other victims to run, victims who have
Speaker 1: survived and told the tale. Oh okay, so he has
Speaker 1: in the past told people to run, and he really
Speaker 1: likes hunting, and if he were to go so far,
Speaker 1: he very well could have done that in this area.
Speaker 1: Though there is no evidence to it, it.
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem far fetched. Basically, it's most likely the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but good luck proving it. Yeah, So we do
Speaker 1: know Robert uses cabin and plane between Oh sorry, right,
Speaker 1: we do know Robert used his cabin and plane for
Speaker 1: some activities that we're going to get to. Okay, and
Speaker 1: between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty three, four bodies
Speaker 1: were discovered in that area. The body of an unidentified
Speaker 1: woman was found on Aclutna Road. A Klutanat Annie is
Speaker 1: the name given to the unidentified murder victim whose body
Speaker 1: was discovered in a wooded area one mile south of
Speaker 1: the Aclutona Lake Road. Now, this is in a clutna
Speaker 1: An Creage, Alaska, but it's still in the very very
Speaker 1: very close area in July nineteen eighty. She was aged
Speaker 1: between six sixteen and twenty five at the time of
Speaker 1: her death, and her body was discovered several months after
Speaker 1: being murdered, and an autopsy report concluded that she had
Speaker 1: been killed by a single stab wound to the back.
Speaker 1: A Clutant Annie was murdered in nineteen teen seventy nine
Speaker 1: by Robert who later specifically stated that she was his
Speaker 1: first murder victim.
Speaker 2: Yikes, that's young, yep.
Speaker 1: Now, the case still remains open and numerous efforts have
Speaker 1: been made to determine the identity of Annie, including several
Speaker 1: forensic facial reconstructions and how she may have appeared, But
Speaker 1: to this day, she is still known as Aklutnant Annie.
Speaker 2: Really, no one has ever identified her.
Speaker 1: She has not been identified to this day.
Speaker 2: Holy heck, we should almost put that photo up.
Speaker 1: Definitely going to put that up on Instagram, huh. So.
Speaker 1: In May of nineteen eighty, the body of Jonah Messina
Speaker 1: aka the Bear Lady, was found in a gravel pit
Speaker 1: and was originally thought to be the victim of a
Speaker 1: bear attack, as her badly decomposed body had since been
Speaker 1: used as a snack I guess you could say by
Speaker 1: a bear in the area. It wasn't until much later
Speaker 1: that they realized she was actually a victim of Robert.
Speaker 2: So he's not really doing much effort to have even
Speaker 2: hide these bodies really well.
Speaker 1: The thing is that it's a remote area only accessible
Speaker 1: by boat or plane, right, and it just so happens
Speaker 1: that some of these victims are being found by the
Speaker 1: circumstance of individuals in the area. One, for example, was
Speaker 1: a plane that just so happens to land testing some
Speaker 1: new tires on their plane on this gravel bar the
Speaker 1: Kinnick River and saw bone sticking out of the ground
Speaker 1: just so happened to be That's random. Another individual was
Speaker 1: buried off a I think it was a power line
Speaker 1: in the remote area, and it was workers working in
Speaker 1: the area that again saw the shadow.
Speaker 2: Grave, which I mean was kind of he could have
Speaker 2: buried that a little bit.
Speaker 1: He could, right, but I mean it's sure like, who
Speaker 1: the fuck's going to be out here and see this?
Speaker 2: I guess that's some think an overconfidenc thing.
Speaker 1: Again it is, but what are the fucking odds?
Speaker 2: So apparently pretty good?
Speaker 1: Apparently on September twelfth, there's another one here. In nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty two, hunters found a shallow grave on the banks
Speaker 1: of the Kinik River just so happened hunters crossed that path.
Speaker 1: The remains were identified as that of a twenty three
Speaker 1: year old exotic dancer, Sherry Morrow, who had been reported
Speaker 1: missing a year earlier. She had been shot in the
Speaker 1: back three times, and cartridges found in the nearby body
Speaker 1: suggests that she had been shot with a two twenty
Speaker 1: three Ruger Mini fourteen hunting rifle, a rifle that Robert
Speaker 1: just so happened to own, an odd feature that was
Speaker 1: also found with the body. She was found fully clothed,
Speaker 1: but there were no bullet holes in her clothing, suggesting
Speaker 1: that Sherry had been naked when shot and then redressed
Speaker 1: after her death and before she was buried.
Speaker 2: Interesting, but then right there almost goes to show you too,
Speaker 2: because like she was shot outside of the cabin thing,
Speaker 2: like not even really near the cabin yep, which kind
Speaker 2: of right there shows that he was probably hunting.
Speaker 1: Her most likely.
Speaker 2: Oh that is just the most terrifying shit I've ever
Speaker 2: I just I just couldn't imagine. Holy you're in this
Speaker 2: like middle of nowhere, like literally running for your life,
Speaker 2: but there's nowhere to go. Like, oh my gosh, it
Speaker 2: almost thinkes you want to cry and you.
Speaker 1: Have nothing, not even the clothing, the.
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, just the shit, like you just feel just.
Speaker 1: Helpless more than that, more than helpless. Fucked yeah, Like
Speaker 1: are you good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm good?
Speaker 1: You sure.
Speaker 2: I just like put myself in these victims situations. I
Speaker 2: try not to do that, but it was just like overwhelming.
Speaker 2: It was like, holy shit, it.
Speaker 1: Looks like you're about to start crying.
Speaker 2: I feel so bad. That's like terrifying.
Speaker 1: Oh, it is terrifying. I can't I can't imagine being
Speaker 1: in the shoes of these victims. No, this leads us
Speaker 1: to seventeen year old teen year old woman by the
Speaker 1: name of Cindy Paulson. Oh, sorry, hold on, I think
Speaker 1: I skipped one. Yes, I skipped one, so let's back
Speaker 1: up just slightly. September second, nineteen eighty three, another shallow
Speaker 1: grave was found on the banks of the Kinik River.
Speaker 1: The victim was identified as another exotic dancer, seventeen year
Speaker 1: old Paula Golden. She had been murdered in the exact
Speaker 1: same way Sherry Morrow had and had also been redressed
Speaker 1: after death. Jeez, So now we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the seventeen year old woman by the name of Cindy Paulson.
Speaker 1: Cindy was a sex worker who was working the Anchorage
Speaker 1: Fourth Avenue in the night of July thirteenth, nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: when Robert pulled up in his car and offered her
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars for her services. As we said before,
Speaker 1: Robert had glasses with thin acne scars, stutter when he spoke,
Speaker 1: and Cindy saw nothing threatening about Robert whatsoever and got
Speaker 1: into his car for the two hundred dollars. As she
Speaker 1: shut the passenger door, Robert quickly put a gun to
Speaker 1: her head and slipped slipped handcuffs onto her wrists. With
Speaker 1: a gun in her face, she had nothing to do
Speaker 1: but do as she was told, so Robert drove them
Speaker 1: to his house on Old Harbor Avenue, and once they
Speaker 1: had arrived, he forced Cindy into the house at gunpoint
Speaker 1: and down into his basement, the same thing he had
Speaker 1: done to so many victims before her. There, he gagged, raped,
Speaker 1: and tortured Cindy for several hours, and once he was finished,
Speaker 1: he put chains around her neck and secured her to
Speaker 1: a wooden post. Then Robert laid on the couch across
Speaker 1: from Cindy and fell asleep.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is fucking disgusting and terrifying all
Speaker 2: at the same time that he just has absolutely no
Speaker 2: remorse whatsoever.
Speaker 1: The fact that he could just sit there and just
Speaker 1: fall asleep, not even okay, okay, just say yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: you can fall asleep after that, but fall asleep in
Speaker 1: front of her, just there across the room on the.
Speaker 2: Ca out and you just go to sleep like she's
Speaker 2: not even there, basically yeah.
Speaker 1: Like she's nothing, Like you don't give a shit. Wow,
Speaker 1: Like the psychology behind that is fucked up.
Speaker 2: Like this guy is beyond disgusting, Oh beyond wow.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine being in Cyndi's shoes as well,
Speaker 1: being tied up there watching him sleep and you're just chained.
Speaker 2: What do you even do? Like, because you probably wouldn't
Speaker 2: even want to wake him up and make him angry, right, Like,
Speaker 2: what would you even do?
Speaker 1: You're you're most likely going to want to look for
Speaker 1: an escape or how can you escape? But like you say,
Speaker 1: you don't want to wake him up, what's he going
Speaker 1: to do when he wakes up? What's he going to
Speaker 1: do if he finds you trying to escape? So you're
Speaker 1: trying to escape in a quiet way because I'm sure, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can say you're going to rattle the chains, you're
Speaker 1: gonna break something, You're going to try and use the
Speaker 1: chains and see if you can wear it down the
Speaker 1: wooden post. That's all gonna wake them up. You're not
Speaker 1: you can't do any of those things.
Speaker 2: So you're just in this terrible position.
Speaker 1: The only thing you can most likely do is try
Speaker 1: to slip your head out of those chains, which she couldn't.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have Ripley sitting here just licking my hands
Speaker 1: as I'm talking in this podcast.
Speaker 2: She was sitting that earlier to me, and then I
Speaker 2: was like ignoring her.
Speaker 1: Okay, So once Robert woke up. I what did I
Speaker 1: do again? I think I keep like hitting my mouse
Speaker 1: and it's like scrolling the page on me. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got myself. So the morning came, Robert woke up
Speaker 1: and he began packing immediately. He then took Cindy by
Speaker 1: gunpoint again back upstairs and put her into their car.
Speaker 1: He drove off to Merlin Field where the airport is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, sorry, no, I get it.
Speaker 1: I'm just like I looked at you and you're just
Speaker 1: like what.
Speaker 2: No, I get it. I'm just like, my brain's still
Speaker 2: going about where the his wife is. But I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm just done. Done. I'm done.
Speaker 1: So he went to the airport where his airplane was
Speaker 1: sitting there waiting. The area was deserve. Not a single
Speaker 1: person insight at the airport, okay, And Cindy sat on
Speaker 1: the floor of the back seat of his car, hands
Speaker 1: cuffed in front of her. Robert got out of the car,
Speaker 1: leaving Cindy inside while he went to prepare the plane.
Speaker 1: Now he was kind of going back and forth for
Speaker 1: some luggage and this sort of stuff, and he was
Speaker 1: at the plane getting it ready and feeling she had
Speaker 1: nothing to lose, and she would most likely be killed soon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Cindy saw her chance to escape, Yes, and she took it.
Speaker 2: And this is a seventeen year old woman.
Speaker 1: Right, I believe Cindy is seventeen years That.
Speaker 2: Is freaking incredible. Okay, let's go. I'm ready, I got
Speaker 2: my enthusiasm.
Speaker 1: So, laying on the back seat, she sat up and
Speaker 1: peered out the window and noticed Robert had his back
Speaker 1: to her. He was concentrating and focusing on the task
Speaker 1: at hand with the plane. So she slowly and quietly
Speaker 1: crawled into the driver's seat, opened the door and ran
Speaker 1: had noticed, however, but it was too late and she
Speaker 1: had gone too far already. Yes, he tried to chase
Speaker 1: after her, but Cindy, wearing only handcuffs and a T
Speaker 1: shirt with her underwear, made it to the nearby sixth Avenue,
Speaker 1: where she flagged down a truck before Robert can dress.
Speaker 1: The man on the truck by the name of Richard,
Speaker 1: you saw Cindy in distress and pulled over and picked
Speaker 1: her up. Cindy just kept repeating to or to Richard,
Speaker 1: He's going to kill me, He's going to kill me.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine picking someone up like literally? That? Oh?
Speaker 2: Just saying that. I'd be like, holy shit, what do
Speaker 2: you do?
Speaker 1: You fucking drive? That's what you do?
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, because you're in my car, I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is dude coming, Like I'd just be terrified.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like that what was that commercial that.
Speaker 2: Start the car? What commercialscause? Like smoking deals or not
Speaker 2: even smoking deals. It's just like he apparently it's like
Speaker 2: less expensive.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what. That kind of
Speaker 1: reminds me of that where it's like panicaling getting out
Speaker 1: of their sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Your phone's making me think, there you go, it is you.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Richard did start the car. He drove Cindy
Speaker 1: to a nearby a nearby in the mulsh In and
Speaker 1: once she was safely inside because she just kind of
Speaker 1: took off the vehicle went inside and Robert's like, uh,
Speaker 1: what the fuck do I do?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, yeah, he doesn't a look guilty of shit either, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he left Cindy safely inside. When she was there,
Speaker 1: he continued to drive, but he did call and notify
Speaker 1: the police of the handcuffed and terrified young woman that
Speaker 1: he had just picked up and where her location was.
Speaker 1: So he told the police everything and let them know.
Speaker 2: The poor thing.
Speaker 1: Oh, I can only imagine what she's going through now.
Speaker 1: Police did find Cindy, and they found out that she
Speaker 1: had actually taken a cab to the Big Timber Motel,
Speaker 1: so she was at a different location when they finally
Speaker 1: caught up to her. Okay, but once they met up
Speaker 1: with her, they met her in one of the rooms
Speaker 1: at the hotel, where she sat there crying and still handcuffed.
Speaker 1: The police removed the handcuffs and took her to the
Speaker 1: police station, where she provided a description of the man
Speaker 1: who had abducted her. She also described the room she
Speaker 1: had been held captive in inside his basement, and she
Speaker 1: described the house of having many trophies of animals mounted
Speaker 1: on the wall. Cindy then directed them the authorities to
Speaker 1: the Merrillfield Airport and identified her abductor's airplane. That airplane
Speaker 1: was registered to Robert Hanson.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's no way he can getting himself out of
Speaker 2: this shit.
Speaker 1: There is one detail that Cindy was able to provide
Speaker 1: police that I just want to point out that makes
Speaker 1: Cindy our official badass of the door. If she's not already,
Speaker 1: just wait till you hear this. While she was still
Speaker 1: back in the backseat of Robert's car before she ran
Speaker 1: and took off, she left behind her blue shoes that
Speaker 1: she was wearing. This way she could prove that that
Speaker 1: was the car she was in the back seat of.
Speaker 1: There her shoes are left behind in that fucking car.
Speaker 2: Wow. So that's like she's really thinking the fact that
Speaker 2: she'd already been through such traumatic events that she's still
Speaker 2: able to like be thinking to save her life and stuff. Right.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, she was able to think clearly leave behind evidence, yeah,
Speaker 1: to get him caught and then bring it forward to
Speaker 1: the police.
Speaker 2: Boom.
Speaker 1: So what do you think is going to be happening?
Speaker 2: You're obsessed with her if he gets away with this shit,
Speaker 2: like there's a problem, Like this has to be the
Speaker 2: last straw.
Speaker 1: It just has to, you think.
Speaker 2: So it has to.
Speaker 1: While police went to question Robert, okay, and he even
Speaker 1: left them into his house to look around and gave
Speaker 1: him permission to enter.
Speaker 2: H What, Well, that's not good, okay, because that to
Speaker 2: make and the police seem like he's innocent.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what he's after.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So police were told by Cindy about the wooden post
Speaker 1: in the basement and the chains shackled to it, the
Speaker 1: animal trophies and everything. So Robert led him in, showed
Speaker 1: him around in the wooden posts, and he was chained
Speaker 1: to in the basement. No longer had the chains to it. Well,
Speaker 1: Robert had already actually puttied and fixed up bolt holes
Speaker 1: and chain damage from the chain by the time the
Speaker 1: police had arrived.
Speaker 2: You'd smell that ship, though, are you just under renos
Speaker 2: like him?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Fix, I'm pissed again. Okay, keep going, you good, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm very anxious to hear what the book.
Speaker 1: Robert again began to play authorities, a sex worker's word
Speaker 1: against his. Wait, nothing. He even had his hunting buddies,
Speaker 1: fellow churchgoers, bakery patrons who are willing to testify that
Speaker 1: Robert would never do these things. It was his word
Speaker 1: against hers. Now, sure, he picked up Cindy, but rape like,
Speaker 1: how do you killing her? She's a sex worker, and
Speaker 1: of course that they had sex.
Speaker 2: Said that he picked her up.
Speaker 1: He admitted that, of course the shoes are in the
Speaker 1: back of her car. Of course she knows what the
Speaker 1: basement in the house looks like. She's a sex worker.
Speaker 2: Ah no, yes, okay, Well, she probably had to have
Speaker 2: like some terrible bruising and like and shits.
Speaker 1: A sex they're a sex worker, prove it. Oh my,
Speaker 1: that's the problem, and that's what he played on.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but that's the story. You have to believe.
Speaker 1: Nothing could be proven, the blue shoes, the player. It
Speaker 1: doesn't prove anything without physical evidence, and they had nothing.
Speaker 1: They had no physical evidence all because Robert did this before.
Speaker 1: And I'm not too sure if he did it in
Speaker 1: this specific case, but what he had played before was saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: I thought it was a date. I thought we were
Speaker 1: out on a date, and yes, we had sex. After sex,
Speaker 1: she demanded payment and I'm like, I'm not paying you.
Speaker 1: I thought this was a date. And from there she
Speaker 1: threatens with rape. That's what he had pulled before, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's probably pulling a similar thing in this case.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So her accusations are just her way of trying to
Speaker 1: get the two inter bucks from me that I so called.
Speaker 2: Oh her, So this is like a smart molfo. He's smart.
Speaker 1: Hey, he is manipulating, is what I'm going to say.
Speaker 1: He's a fucking ass.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that this isn't over.
Speaker 1: At this point, they had no evidence against Robert. That
Speaker 1: is until one investigator searching Robert's house saw a recently
Speaker 1: disturbed piece of insulation in Robert's attic. While searching m there,
Speaker 1: he found some jewelry belonging to miss missing and murdered women.
Speaker 1: I remember Robert had a hunting passion. He was a
Speaker 1: hunter and collected trophies. These to him were trophies from
Speaker 1: his kills. Ill.
Speaker 2: Okay, but good on that investigator, right, he wasn't believing
Speaker 2: this molefho, He's doing his job. I like it.
Speaker 1: I like it now. They were able to identify specific
Speaker 1: pieces of jewelry to specific murdered individuals that they had found,
Speaker 1: some of those that we had listened previously, which is huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: However, it still doesn't prove anything about him killing anyone.
Speaker 1: Maybe he bought him from a pawnshop. Maybe they pawned
Speaker 1: him off and then he bought him because they're sex workers.
Speaker 1: Maybe they needed money. It doesn't prove anything.
Speaker 2: That looks so good.
Speaker 1: It looks guilty, but it doesn't prove he murdered anyone.
Speaker 1: Is the pro.
Speaker 2: I know, I get it.
Speaker 1: What they're looking for is a smoking gun. They need
Speaker 1: something to prove now. Luckily, there was something else that
Speaker 1: they found while searching his house. There was a map
Speaker 1: taped to the backside of his headboard on his bed.
Speaker 1: It was an aviation map covering the area over the
Speaker 1: Kinnick River where his cabin resided. But there was something
Speaker 1: different about this map, in particular, it's.
Speaker 2: Sorry, it's such an interesting place to hide something I
Speaker 2: never thought of that you'll.
Speaker 1: Think of it now. Apparently, any idea what could have
Speaker 1: been on this map?
Speaker 2: I bet you it was like x's or crosses or
Speaker 2: whatever where he left women dead women. Well, that's my guess.
Speaker 1: On this map there were a total of twenty four
Speaker 1: x's scattered throughout locations. It didn't seem to make much
Speaker 1: sense to authorities at first, but it took them a
Speaker 1: couple of moments and then it connected because.
Speaker 2: They've found bodies in the sunny spots.
Speaker 1: Probably they compared the map to a map they had
Speaker 1: made of locations on where bodies were found in the
Speaker 1: area so far, and the exes that they had matched
Speaker 1: perfectly with the exes they had on Robert's map. It
Speaker 1: was a map of where Robert had buried his victims.
Speaker 2: So A, that's the smoking gun. Yes, and B twenty four.
Speaker 1: Twenty four xes were made on that map.
Speaker 2: WHOA, yes, I'm not expected to be that kind of number,
Speaker 2: my god.
Speaker 1: Like you said, though, this is the smoking gun they
Speaker 1: were looking for. This proves his involvement. This doesn't just
Speaker 1: prove that he was associated. This proves he was involved,
Speaker 1: my goodness. So Robert was quickly taken into customs and
Speaker 1: it wasn't before long that he decided he wanted to
Speaker 1: come clean. He admitted to the rape and the murder
Speaker 1: of the four individuals that they currently had, and that
Speaker 1: they could put his name to right and in return,
Speaker 1: if he pled guilty, they would agree. Are you ready
Speaker 1: for this?
Speaker 2: I don't know if I am?
Speaker 1: Well, he would agree to help authorities find the bodies
Speaker 1: of the remaining marked people on his map, if and
Speaker 1: that's if there are no other charges for any further crimes,
Speaker 1: whether he was guilty or not, no matter what they found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but okay, that's not terrible.
Speaker 1: Real quick to sum this up, just to make sure
Speaker 1: we got this laid out flat. So Robert is being
Speaker 1: charged with the four bodies that they currently have, ok
Speaker 1: And he is pleading guilty to those charges. In return,
Speaker 1: he will help authorities locate the rest of the exes
Speaker 1: he has murdered. He will help them locate their bodies.
Speaker 1: In return, he is basically free of charges from anything
Speaker 1: they find from here on out.
Speaker 2: But my thought is that for rape and murder charges
Speaker 2: is going to get you life in prison anyway, is
Speaker 2: sort of my thought. Yeah, but it's still like for
Speaker 2: the victims and their families and stuff, I think that's
Speaker 2: kind of a pretty shitty deal probably.
Speaker 1: But the victim gets to come home. They're found this way.
Speaker 2: We're found because he wouldn't have helped probably trying to
Speaker 2: find them other ways. But do they need his fucking help?
Speaker 2: Already have this map with all these ringing x's.
Speaker 1: And shit, well that X might not show an exact spot,
Speaker 1: right it shows, Okay, it's in this valley. Good luck
Speaker 1: searching and finding a body buried in that valley, right.
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1: So anyways, all parties agreed to this deal, and Robert
Speaker 1: happily and I highlight happily showed the locations of hidden
Speaker 1: bodies on the map because he was, in fact, happy, excited,
Speaker 1: almost as described to some of the authorities, who were involved.
Speaker 1: He was excited and happy to show the locations as
Speaker 1: if proud of what he had done and proud of
Speaker 1: the area, like a hunter showing and telling his hunting story.
Speaker 2: Huh they must. I just can only imagine what they're
Speaker 2: thinking of this dude.
Speaker 1: So they would literally fly him into the area and
Speaker 1: he would lead them to exactly exactly where the body
Speaker 1: was buried. And I mean, like a parent to a tea.
Speaker 1: They did not have to dig an extra grave on
Speaker 1: any of the bodies they exhumed. He said, here, they
Speaker 1: dug there.
Speaker 2: There was a body that's like pretty good memory. Really yea,
Speaker 2: he would have been good at the memory game.
Speaker 1: Probably I was at that. So in total, Robert led
Speaker 1: them to find a total of seventeen bodies that were
Speaker 1: exes on the map. Okay, the remaining seven xes. Robert
Speaker 1: denies killing and burying anyone in these.
Speaker 2: Locations, so he just has ran the exs on this map.
Speaker 2: I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: As it stands, Robert has a total and is officially responsible,
Speaker 1: officially on the record, responsible with seventeen known murders, thirty
Speaker 1: one different rapes, one attempted murder, and one attempted rape,
Speaker 1: for his four murders that he did get charged with.
Speaker 1: He was sentenced by jury to a total of four
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty one years good plus life in prison
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, that's what I wanted to hear.
Speaker 1: And in August twenty first, twenty fourteen, Robert died of
Speaker 1: natural causes at the age of seventy five behind bars.
Speaker 2: What year would you have gone to prison then to sorry,
Speaker 2: that might be a question.
Speaker 1: I know, I didn't actually write that down when his
Speaker 1: trial was that's.
Speaker 2: Crazy that he because yeah, I don't know, but he
Speaker 2: was youngerish, I guess when he was doing all this shit.
Speaker 1: I can scroll back here when was Cindy abducted again?
Speaker 1: Because it was three months after Cindy that he decided
Speaker 1: to come clean. So it was June thirteenth, nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: three when he picked up and kidnapped Cindy.
Speaker 2: And he died in twenty fourteen. Oh okay, okay, that's
Speaker 2: actually a substantial amount of time in person. I for
Speaker 2: some reason thought it wasn't okay.
Speaker 1: So the list of his victims include, but are not
Speaker 1: limited to, Cecilia Beth van Zanton. She was an ex
Speaker 1: on his map, but Robert denies killing her. Bullshit Megan
Speaker 1: Saban Emeric. She was also an ex in the map,
Speaker 1: but Robert denies killing her. Mary Kathleen phil was also
Speaker 1: an ex on Robert's map, but he denies killing her.
Speaker 1: Unidentified a Clute Nott, Annie Jonah Messina, Roxanne Eastland, whose
Speaker 1: body has never been found, Lisa Futrelle, Sherry Morrow, Andrea
Speaker 1: Altieri whose body has never been found. Sue Luna Robin Pelke,
Speaker 1: whose identity was finally discovered in October of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, just two months ago. She had previously been
Speaker 1: given the nickname Horseshoe Harriet.
Speaker 2: Well and someone finally identified She's.
Speaker 1: Finally been identified.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Delynne Frey, Paula Golden, Malia Larson, Teresa Watson, Angela veteran,
Speaker 1: Tamara Pederson, Sorry, Cindy Paulson, who he kidnapped and raped,
Speaker 1: but she escaped and was subsequently the cause of his
Speaker 1: capture and also our bass.
Speaker 2: Of the Badass of the Day. I just have to
Speaker 2: say I was almost said it during but I was like, no,
Speaker 2: you need to read those lists through. Is like I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but like you know exactly where they're buried a dead
Speaker 2: person and you didn't fucking kill them, Like, how is
Speaker 2: that even? Like you just sound like an idiot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's officially responsible for their death.
Speaker 2: Oh totally. Yeah, if you know where they're buried and everything,
Speaker 2: there's I cannot think of many reasons that you wouldn't
Speaker 2: be their murderer, I know. So wow.
Speaker 1: So that is the story of Robert Hanson, the butcher Baker.
Speaker 2: That is wild. That is like a wild, awfully sad story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sorry it took us so long. It
Speaker 1: gets part two for you guys. But the research was
Speaker 1: a lot more in depth than I anticipated.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: We were hoping to have it out yesterday or the
Speaker 1: day before, but we'll always get part two out before
Speaker 1: the next episode airs, at least that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes it's surprising how much research, like you don't
Speaker 2: realize until like you're really in it.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I could have gotten a lot more in
Speaker 1: depth with this if I wanted to. There's some details
Speaker 1: and some explanations and stuff that I skipped over, But
Speaker 1: I do highly recommend that if you want to learn more,
Speaker 1: dive into it. It's a rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could only imagine.
Speaker 1: So fuck Robert Hanson to Cindy the Badass of the
Speaker 1: day and everyone else. All right, yeah, thanks for listening. Guys,
Speaker 1: don't forget to check our Patreon if you want that
Speaker 1: exclusive Jacko s merch before it goes out of the shop,
Speaker 1: Our Instagram, our Facebook, the whole rest of it, and
Speaker 1: of course, until next
Speaker 2: Time, we appreciate you and stay wicked.