Speaker 1: What is up, fellowsiko as I am dat the Valley.
Speaker 2: Coming at you with a time capsule podcast. This will
be releasing on Wednesday, August fourteenth. Grant and I are
slated to release our Western Conference twenty twenty three offseason
regrades on Friday, August sixteenth, So I figured it would
be good to put up this so that if you
wanted to listen to and go back and see what
we said rather than just hear us say what our
grades were.
Speaker 1: At the time, thought it could be valuable.
Speaker 2: And this also because we put out so many episodes,
it's easier than just going back and relinking. Also for
any one of the things that we're just trying to
fill dead air time. I mean, I guess potentially, but
we have some other podcasts banked. These were three separate podcasts.
I had to combine them into one and actually editing them,
editing out some.
Speaker 1: Of the ads.
Speaker 2: It actually took longer than would have for me to
edit a podcast that we had recorded.
Speaker 1: So listen to it.
Speaker 2: Don't figure that it would be useful though, if you
actually want to hear what our logic was before Grant
and I have to walk back a bunch of what
we said going into it preliminarily looking at our grades
and then sort of listening while I was editing, I'm
gonna have a lot of stuff. Then I'm probably gonna
end up changing, so that'll be fun. It's always a
fun exercise. Also thought this would be a really good
time to announce that, after much deliberation discussion, we have
decided to bring back the look Ahead series this season.
Speaker 1: We were really on the.
Speaker 2: Fence about it. It is it is a bear for us.
I'm not gonna lie. Our guests are fantastic, but it's
not something you do for the engagement, for the downloads,
for the exposure, because you're not finding as big of
an audience or as why of an audience when you're
covering a single team. But I do find them super useful.
We do do this for the sickos, but I would
ask that you know, come out in full force, download them,
listen to them, share them, anything you could do to
help get them out there and maybe appeal appeal to
new listeners.
Speaker 1: Because it's a lot of work and.
Speaker 2: Our schedules at this point are actually busier than ever
now and that's not going to change, which is why
we were very close to cutting this, but we do.
We love doing them, We love our guests, and we
love all of you guys who are actually listening to
all of them. So they will be up. I will
build the usual landing pages. There will be a YouTube playlist.
There will be I'll put something up on the NBA
Math website where we'll have all the individual episodes links.
So if you need sort of a one stop shop
and don't want to scroll through our audio podcast feed,
because this time Capsule podcast is only for you audio
ogs YouTube, it's a lot easier to like there was
a playlist, they could relink it. But we put out
over one hundred and eighty episodes since the last like
over the past year, like twelve months or whatever. It
is exactly so, and because they were three separate podcasts,
just didn't make sense to, oh, here's relinking them. So
now it's all in one spot. Hopefully you'll appreciate.
Speaker 1: That look back.
Speaker 2: We had to look ahead. I think they'll start coming
out next week. I don't know what the cadence of
them will be. I already have some in the bank.
I might just release them as I edit them, might
try and stick to our regular cadence of Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
since we're so early in the offseason, with you know,
sometimes the bonus podcasts on Saturday or Sunday, Grant I
will be trying to do a nationally or more macro
topic focused podcast during the stretch once a week because
I know a lot of people don't necessarily like listening
to forty five sixty seventy five ninety minutes on one
team that's not their favorite team. I get it, but
I do think that, you know, we want to give
every team their shine, which is part of why we
do this, and there are a lot of talented local
experts that we talk to, and I think it makes
us smarter, it'll make listeners smarter, And I do think
it's fair because there are some teams that invariably on accident,
of course, but they fall by the wayside in service
of us following more trends and topics and the questions
that we're being asked about. And so this is really
a time for us to go deep on every single team,
all thirty of them. Like I said, I don't know
what the actual schedule of them will be. I think
what wind up happening is that the cadence of our
publishing will be a little bit off. Can't guarantee they'll
be stuff Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but there might be some
weeks where there's five or six podcasts and then some
weeks where there's a little bit bifewer. But this series
is a lot of fun to do, but it's also
an incredible amount of work. Hopefully you enjoy it and
appreciate it, and hopefully you enjoy me ceasing to talk
now so you can hear past Grant and Dan talk
saying things that present day Dan and Grant, or technically
future Dan and Grant, since I'm recording this before we
even get to the regrades, so you can listen to
past Dan and Grant say things that future Dan and
Grant will eventually have to pay for reconcile, walk back.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: We begin with Denver. We're gonna try and do the
alphabet again, I assume.
Speaker 3: Yep, we'll do our best. I will start with Denver.
So I hate that we have to start with this
one because it's got this very complicated Maybe you can
simplify it for me after I like plow through it.
So essentially one of the big moves in a summer
that they did not really make any big ones, so
we're talking relatively. Denver traded it's twenty twenty nine first
with a top five protection to the Thunder for the worst,
twenty twenty four first from Houston with top five protection,
Utah with top ten Oka see twenty twenty four first
is just straight up from Oka see the twenty twenty
four first via the Clippers. The worst of that essentially
number thirty seven and twenty twenty three and a twenty
twenty four second. Then they flipped, so you're already gonna
have to help me the worst of those picks to
the Pacers.
Speaker 2: I think the best way to simplify it is they
ended up trading their twenty twenty nine first, which is
top five protected for two years, and they already have
an obligation to OKAC in twenty twenty seven. But they
traded that first number forty and they ended up with
Julian Strather at number twenty nine, jail and Pickett at
number thirty two, number thirty seven Hunter Tyson, and I
think they got a twenty twenty four second.
Speaker 3: Yes, they get that twenty four second.
Speaker 1: From the least favorable of Charlotte and Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even god damn, even the second has to be
least favorable. I hate these trades just we were too
complicated anyway, So they end up with basically basically straw
the Pickett and uh Hunter Tyson. Well but does Tyson
even part of Yeah, they got the thirty seventh pick, right, Okay, anyway,
they did all that shit. So now they have rookies
on the roster, Julian Strawther, Jalen Pickett, Hunter Tyson. Let's
get to the real meat to this. They signed Reggie
Jackson for two years and ten point twenty five million
with a player option. Uh, thank you for including lad
had to talk about that. I kind of want to
just seed the floor to you. But we'll get through
a couple more things. DeAndre Jordan's back. Justin Holliday also back,
also on board for the minimum. Bruce Brown Junior has
gone to Indy, Jeff Green also gone, Thomas Bryant is gone.
Is Schmith is unsigned. I don't know that he has
signed any place yet, but I would love for him
to sign with a different team so he can continue
to extend his streak of most teams played for in
NBA history. That's pretty much it. Do you want to Well,
first of all, we didn't really lead with this, but
if you've listened to the three Eastern Conference divisions, we
did understand that a C is like fine, it's passing
with the no no. I mean that that matters for
this too. And we're also trying to factor in like
what options were available, what were the opportunities not pursued
that We're realistic, so every team is a little bit different, right,
It's kind of like it's not a firm grading scale.
We're trying to be fair to each team and their
individual circumstances. So the Nuggets didn't have a lot of
options essentially, right, so we have to think about that.
But also Reggie Jackson, Dan please.
Speaker 2: Go so and what did not factor They could not
pay Bruce Brown what it was just it wasn't they
chose tax savings over they couldn't keep Bruce Brown. They
could have kept Jeff Green, but that's just like he
got a deal where it was okay, it's only the
one year guaranteed, but that was a salary that was
just not commensurate with the value he was going to play.
The other thing to note too, is Vacho Chanchard tour
an acl that's like something that doesn't impact their grade,
but something to keep in mind here. And I don't
know how you feel about So they did sign all
the players we were listing. When you're looking at Pickett
and Tyson specifically, they did give them four year deals
with three fully guaranteed years on them, which I think
is always interesting when there's second round picks involved, there
their resources available. It was just not I'm probably gonna
pick this team to win the title again. This was
just a really bad offseason, and I think what they
did when you're looking at the trading the twenty twenty
nine first is ultimately fine if you're really liking the
players that you got back. You know, maybe I know
Denver fans and myself, I'm high on Peyton Watson's supply,
which doesn't factor in this offseason. A lot of them
really like Hunter Tyson. I've seen a lot of them
really like Jellen Pickett. And then there's already Oka Julian
Strauthord play sort of a role. We don't know enough
about those guys, so I don't want to take it
too hard, but I'm just sort of like this team
isn't built to need a bigger move, but you've now
just removed any possibility of that happening from the equation
because you've traded these first that are so far out
you kind of need to let them build back up,
and then if you're gonna run into second apron concerns,
you might even not have the most distant ones available
to you moving forward. I don't again hate that part
of their offseason. I'm not gonna get over the Reggie
Jackson two guaranteed years, like giving him the player option,
and maybe it was a wink wink agreement when he
came over in the buyout market and you sort of
look at it and say, well, look at what's happening
with James Harden. When you break win wink agreements in Philly.
It's Reggie Jackson. He wasn't part of your playoff rotation.
I don't know what you have has left. Maybe he
shocks us and provides like a lot of good backup
point guard minutes for them next season, and I don't
know who else they could have gotten with their miniml
But that was your best spending tool, which was already
hamstrung because of the new CBA, like it's just not
worth as much in commensurate with how the cap is
rising and like the actual other exceptions, but you just
there would have been better options at the especially because
teams just weren't really using their exceptions, like it was
a lot of them lost them, like the more expensive teams,
Teams were reticent to spend their entire full Emily, I
do think what helps them, I guess is all right, well,
who were they supposed to turn around and sign, I
mean even and he's not a backup point guard. If
you wanted an actual ball handling Javon Carter got more
than Reggie Jackson. And so it's just like you would
have to did you want Derek Rose on this team
actually signed for cheaper?
Speaker 1: Probably not?
Speaker 2: And so that really warps my perception of this offseason
because I'm not sure necessarily what else they were supposed
to do, but kind of burning this best tool on
Reggie Jackson is kind of like, well, what I've preferred
from a basketball perspective to have thrown like like rolled
the dice on literally anyone, or would I've rather have
seen them use the trade exception that they think it
was the MONTI Morris trade exception that expired, Like could
they have been more aggressive and trying to do something
like that? And I ended up with a D plus
for them because I am intrigued by Jalen Picketts specifically
and Julian Strouther and I think that this team is
they're still really good and I don't know what else
they were supposed to do. But when you take your
best spending tool and you turn it into Reggie Jackson
will giving him a player option, by the way, is
just that that doesn't seem like, yes, we want to
give this team the benefit of the doubt, but that's
not like the smartest use of Like I would have
preferred them to have brought back Jeff Green, then I
would have what they did with Reggie Jackson. And the
other thing here too is just like you're kinda maybe
he just proves that they're finally going to be married
to the Zeke Nauji experience next year, let's see, But
like you kind of punt it on backup center minutes
again too by bringing like the DeAndre contract whatever, and
you have Jokic, Like there's still this like ten to
twelve minutes a game that you could stand to upgrade,
they didn't even look.
Speaker 3: At doing that. Yeah, I think the Jackson thing, it's
a C minus for me. So we're really kind of
right in the same neighborhood. I think, Well, let me
ask you, what do you think about the It seems
like broadly Denver is saying, we got four expensive guys
and one extremely expensive guy in Jokic, and we got
to find a way to get some cost control going.
And so if that means we trade a distant first
to get three guys that we're gonna sign in these
rookies to longer deals than these guys would normally get,
just try to like lock in some lowish numbers on
guys we hope in a year or two can be
like at least end of rotation, like guys that actually play,
because they're just sort of hamstrung financially with their four
big contracts. Talking about MPJ and Murray and Gordon in
addition to Jokic, and if you're contending for a title
like now, that twenty nine first like really doesn't matter.
So I kind of like some of the thinking that
went into that complicated trade that I could not get through.
And so just that on its own is yeah, okay,
that makes that makes some sense to me. You're trying
to find ways to avoid just rocketing into like ultra
tax you know eventually that all whether that works out
or not depends almost entirely on just like, are these
guys any good? Like will one of them pop or
you know, maybe two of them project as guys that
you can actually count on in twenty twenty five or
something like that. The Jackson thing is what just knocks
it down below average to me, just because like how
much the player Okay, maybe all to be more specific,
just the player option. What are we doing? Why do
why does Reggie Jackson get a player option? Like who
who was offering you know, two years at ten to
two five straight? Like nobody. There's just no nobody, So
that whenever that's the case, I think you said it,
it's kind of feels a little wink winkie. And speaking
of I don't I don't really ding them at all
for losing Bruce Brown because what could they have paid him? Yeah,
they had early birds, so it's like seven a year,
and then you're gonna have to hope that you do
the Nick Batom thing where yeah, come back for one
opt out and then we can really pay you. And
they couldn't even have paid him with early bird rights
when he got in Indy for the one year. No,
not even close. So like it never again. I think
I said this when it happened. Never listened to players
and coaches at the post championship parade when everybody's like,
Bruce is coming back. No he's not. He was never coming.
Insane decision for him to come back. I mean, just
the money he's getting from India is like, how if
you're Bruce Brown, you're not turning that contract down for
anything in Indy come back to Denver in a couple
of years if you want to. So is It's just
I can't. I can't fault them for losing him.
Speaker 1: That was just that was part of my grade at all.
Speaker 2: But it sort of comes down to when you mentioned
Reggie Jackson, just like just to because I saw some
people like, well, you just said you don't know what
they were supposed to do, So would you have rather
Frankielkina here.
Speaker 1: Obviously, but I think we know the answer to that.
Speaker 2: But look like Dennis Smith Junior got the minimum, Yeah,
Cory Joseph got the minimum. Would you have preferred those
guys and like they didn't even wait. Reggie Jackson was
just signed, like almost right away. Would you have preferred
rather than have him on the two ways, like, hey,
let's see what Colin Gillespie can give us to what
this regie? And yeah, so like that's what I'm saying,
and that's why it was the Reggie Jackson name that
did it.
Speaker 1: And I just don't you're I think you are looking
at it.
Speaker 2: From a more reasonable perspective on the trade front, where
I'm just like, Okay, this team, I guess really doesn't
need to makeup bigger swing, But now they've just removed
that option from the table where they've decided that not
like even a mid end swing, like any any trade
they make is gonna be so marginal, or any someone
cracking the rotation who makes a meaningful contribution is going
to be developed in house. And I'm just uncomfortable. You've
done it a couple of times. It has worked out,
but it's just it makes me uncomfortable. And so again
it's really the Reggie Jackson stuff for me, because I
think you could have went on them even just that
he's not a point guard.
Speaker 1: Eric Gordon at the minimum. I would have given him
this money. It's a hell yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: That's where I land with Denver, our next team, unless
you have anything else on the Nuggets, Nope. The Minnesota
Timberwolves did a bunch of stuff relatives and not really
having a lot of stuff to do. They signed Antey
Edwards to a five year, two hundred and five million
dollar max contract with no player options. It can go
to the thirty percent of the max. It includes a
fifteen percent trade kicker. They extended nas Reed on a
three year, forty two million dollar deal that includes a
player option on the final season. They traded Utah's twenty
twenty six second and their own twenty twenty eight second
for number thirty three Leonard Miller.
Speaker 1: Because they don't have enough bigs.
Speaker 2: They signed Nikkeil Alexander Walker to a two year nine
million dollar contract. They signed Shake Milton to a two
year ten million dollar contract with a non guarantee on
year two. They signed Troy Brown Junior to a two
year eight million dollar contract that is non guaranteed in
year two. And they also, if you care about this,
signed Luca Garza and number fifty seven jail And Clark
to two way deals, some just other notable stuff.
Speaker 1: Jayleen Noel still remains unsigned.
Speaker 2: They did waive Tory and prints now on the Lakers,
and we have not heard anything on a you know,
you can't factor this into their grade at all. No
Jaden McDaniel's extension talk just now, which leads me to
believe that Jay McDaniels gonna get cashlock put aid as
he should. What did you think about what stands out
to you? Is this this offseason for Minnesota?
Speaker 3: I liked it a lot. I'll just I gave I
gave him a B plus for this. I if I
have like for first of all the good like I
think I've several times I said, I think Nikhil Alexander Walker,
it's still like not too late for him to be
something a little bit he kind of might be, He
kind of might be and shake Milton two years ten
million with a non guarantee. I'm really surprised that's all
it took for him. Troy, I know you like Troy
Brown Junior. I think again, these these mid tiers, these
aren't even mid tier deals anymore in the modern uh,
like you know, pay scale of the NBA. So getting
those three guys on board with you know, significant flexibility,
uh in the out years. That's that's great. I think
let's talk about nas RED because obviously Anthony Edwards just
deserve to get max, no question, no.
Speaker 2: Player option to win unless I have that ACO again.
But no player option. That isn't like yeah, that's a
big time like Anthony Edwards is.
Speaker 3: So good. Yeah no, I mean, I'm I'm really surprised
he didn't get a player option because you would think
if anybody signing a rookie scale deal had the clout
to get one, it would it would be him. Like
if had he come back and said I need it,
I don't know how. You say you can't, I say no,
so goo good on them. The NASRI deal three years,
forty two million, with the player option and the third
Obviously the positional glut makes this kind of I don't know,
it's not it doesn't quite rise to the level of
like head scratching. But the way I would defend it
is to say it's just asset preservation. I think he's
he's properly paid at that number, and you can envision
a team if this is how it goes, eventually surrendering
value to get him on that contract. I think that's
totally fine. It just doesn't make sense to me, you know,
from what's the team on the floor going to look
like unless this car And I don't think this is
the case. But one way you could explain is, well,
if and when the Karl Anthony Towns trade happens, now
you've got you know, he's not your third center, he's
your backup center. I don't always love him with Nazrid,
with Gobert or with Towns, and.
Speaker 1: The numbers are not good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, on the lineups, I like him more as a five,
which is just generally the case with the guy that
is center sized. It's just you don't play those guys
at the four anymore really, So that one, I don't
know that I could have gotten to an A minus necessarily.
And again I don't hate the deal, just years and dollars,
but that one felt weird to me. Do you have
any like I think you liked the Nasri deal more
than I did, if I recall, But what's what if
anything about that? What are your thoughts on that one?
Speaker 1: So I love it.
Speaker 2: I'd like to get him at basically mid level money,
and like there's he does so much on offense that
I think people don't realize it's he was viewed mostly
as a floor spacer, and his shooting I think did
get better as.
Speaker 1: The season went on.
Speaker 2: There's like a real floor game and craft to like
putting the ball in his hands.
Speaker 1: That's huge, just like because.
Speaker 2: When you're kind of looking at this team, I think
they did. They have Kyle Anderson, they have Anthony Edwards,
they have Karl Anthony Towns even and like you pick
up Shake Milton, but there's like someone who might like
he might be in every level scorer, and who are
the every level scores on this team? Anthony Edwards and
I guess you can consider Towns in every level scorer.
Speaker 1: So I have another one of those guys.
Speaker 2: And I think we have not seen enough data on
the nas RED plus another big lineups to say by
far and away that they can't work. And I would
actually be more hopeful, I think for Towns read than
maybe Read Gobert. Oh yeah, so the money is just
and I'll look at it this way too, is now
he becomes like a better if you decide to move
on from him. He has more value on this contract
than he did before.
Speaker 1: And so I didn't.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even have second guessed this at Like I
just I think it was a maybe he was more
about it after his injury that end of his season,
because I was actually shocked at the number I thought
a team wanted, like, you know, if he'd hit the
open market, like the Rockets or maybe even the Pistons
might have come in and with like a really good offer.
And so I think to get him for this money,
even if again it's you don't like the glot, but
do you let someone that value like what was the alternative?
Speaker 3: Let him walk right right? No? That that I think
that's right. Let me ask you this before we get
off the Wolves here, is there a number that Jaden
McDaniels could sign for that would significantly swing your grade
up or down? Like, because I think the one hundred
million dollars, you know, four for one hundred is definitely
kind of like the thing I've been anchored to.
Speaker 2: If you've got to be the number that would drag
the grade down, I think that's really the question.
Speaker 3: If he gets it, it'll.
Speaker 1: Be a at.
Speaker 2: If he's eyes for like twenty million or less, they
can get an A plus plus plus plus because that
is absurd.
Speaker 3: I would I don't think, I just I just I
don't have an answer. I was just curious, like as
a thought exercise, like how do you pay overpay Jaden McDaniels.
Is it thirty a year?
Speaker 2: And that's another player It doesn't have like the every
levelness to his game. But that's another player who I
don't know if he'll ever see it.
Speaker 1: On this team, can do stuff with the ball in
his hands.
Speaker 3: Now it's very much projection based for him. I think,
like you, the defense, I think is that we don't
have any more questions about the defense. And if he's
gonna make three at all, I think suddenly you're just well,
now this is a this is.
Speaker 2: Your threaing while you picked up this year and if
the percentage is held, So if it was four for
one twenty, I think.
Speaker 3: I don't okay with that.
Speaker 1: I would be two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I just think I don't I feel
like his extension, if his signs will end up not
impact if they max him, if they just decide, like
I'm trying to think of the number where it's just
like and I just don't know what even if they
went four for one, would that would you be like, oh,
like whatever, like that's fine.
Speaker 3: I might have some reservations about that one. But yeah, no,
I guess that's the point here is that I think
now if they don't get something done at all, maybe
that's that's a problem. I mean, they don't have to
because they could do it next summer. But but I.
Speaker 2: Think four year max, by the way I think as
of now would be like four years, one fifty two something.
Speaker 1: I don't think he gets it.
Speaker 3: I don't think so either, although the fact it is
taking this long, although like I've guess, I just although
although myself I just pioted to really hard. The Wolves
do have like a significant number of really big contracts
on the books, so I can understand some hesitation or
trying to like squeeze a few pennies out if we're
gonna do another one.
Speaker 2: So Jaden McDaniels and Anthony Edwards' new deals will kick
in next year. So let me give you my grade
with him, which I gave an a minus. The only
thing I didn't like. And I've just I've seen and
heard some people think that Troy Brown Junior is gonna
an upgrade over Torrian Prince.
Speaker 1: I just don't I don't see it.
Speaker 2: I think Torrian Prince could have been really important for
the way this team is built right now. And I
understand the finances of it all, like what you ended
up getting Nikhil Alexander Walker and Shake Milton for anyway,
and even what you gave Troy Brown Junior above the minimum,
there were like other steps that you could have taken.
I would have wanted to have kept him if I
were then, So that's really the only thing I dged
him before. I think they're and the Leonard Miller acquisitions
is a little bit curious, but I also respect, like, hey,
we identified we didn't have a pick someone we liked.
We're just gonna go get him, Like we didn't have
a pick in the top in the top thirty three,
so we're gonna go get him.
Speaker 1: So I do respect to that. But yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think the question I was gonna throw to you, Jane McDaniels,
Anthony Edwards are on their new deals next year, Kromton
Towns and Rudy.
Speaker 1: Gobert are there.
Speaker 2: What what are the chances I'm gonna set the over
under at point five? One of those four players isn't there?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 1: Could you are you one inclined to go with the
under because it's.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, well, Mike Conley comes off the books and
so like it really isn't there's like the ready made replacement.
Speaker 3: Oh man, that's tough. So really it's really it's is
Gobert or Town's gone? Is the question?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Like, that's that's what we're getting to. I wish you could.
I wish I could answer this in like January as
opposed to right now, because I think this very much.
Speaker 2: The Wolves played twenty five games, and there are trade
rumors that I'd like, I'd like to see this.
Speaker 3: Team for a little while. Frankly, uh, I would say
they'll both be there, But I do think that Gobert
is getting closer to not being such an albatross as
as the years come off. I could although Towns is
in the trade rumors all the time, I guess I
guess if the over under his point five so is
somebody gone, I would take the over. Someone will be
gone and it'll be one of the two bigs. But
I actually am having a harder time deciding which of
the two it'll be.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go under because I just think they're gonna
be a lot better this year.
Speaker 3: But this is gonna be really good too.
Speaker 1: I mean, we remember.
Speaker 2: When we do the regrades, when I get back from traveling.
That's I think we both might have given I don't remember.
We might have given them like a pluses across the
board or something.
Speaker 3: I'm sure I thought that the Gobert trade was like
I defended it. I'm sure I defended it. I can't remember.
I would love to hear all my logic on that again.
But would let's do the thunder? You ready to move on? Yeah, okay,
let's see. I've been practicing this one, and it's the
first bullet point on my summary. They signed Vassilier Metsch
and that is the correct pronunciation because I youtubed it
and I listened to the person correctly pronounced it several
times for three years, like me a lot.
Speaker 1: So it's a Mesitch.
Speaker 3: It's it's like mit Sich is the way it was
phonetically pronounced. But I'm not I'm gonna say, I'm gonna
say mitchge like Michic. Yeah right, Mitzig Mitzig team option
on that three year deal for twenty three point six million. Again,
you have this cleaner. This is this their side of
the Denver trade, getting the twenty twenty nine first for
the least favorable of like seventy million picks, number thirty
seven and a twenty four second. The trade that's easier
to understand is they took on Davas Burton's money from
Dallas uh and the number ten pick to take Case
and Wallace and sent the number twelve back to the MAVs.
Speaker 1: UH.
Speaker 3: Then we also have some Patti Mills Shenanigans that he
gets routed there for like five seconds, and a multi
team trade that also involves the Rockets and the Grizzlies. Uh.
Patty Mills is not on the Thunder a blank on
the Hawks now, and Rudy Gay has been waived. There's
a future second that ended up with the Thunder, And
ty Ty tell me if this is wrong. Ty Ti
Washington and Uzman Gruba are still technically on the Thunders roster,
but they're like players nineteen and twenty on their current
roster right now. Basically, it might be yeah.
Speaker 1: Because you said they waived Rudy Gay.
Speaker 2: That trade was they basically traded cash for Uzman Gruba.
Tye Ti Washington, Rudy Gay, and I think they got
a second round or Memphis second rounder did.
Speaker 3: But they did all that to just add to a
roster like they're gonna just have to cut loose several
guys right like that. You can't. You can't have twenty guys.
That's not allowed. Another speaking of Victor Oladipo for two
seconds and two seconds for cash. They also signed Jack White,
They lost Dario Sarich, and they drafted another Keyante Johnson
at number fifty. So that was our other pick. A
lot of like convoluted stuff, a lot of taking on money,
a lot of moving picks around. I did not like
this offseason for the Thunder, and that's the first time
I've said that about them in a really long time.
I am open to the counter argument of what would
you have preferred they do because they just already have
a million young players and unless you're going time for
consolidation trade, I don't know what to do. So it's
a deep plus for me and I'll throw it to
you with that hanging in the air.
Speaker 2: They this is what's tough because we get into the
criteria of what would we have done and then grading
it knowing the constraints that they've decided to work within,
and so I would have been more aggressive with my
cap space. Now I also read, look, PJ. Washington's still
floating around out there. That was a name I had
proposed for them.
Speaker 1: Missing out on PJ.
Speaker 2: Washington doesn't is not my grade that I will reveal shortly.
Is not necessarily necessarily criticizing them for the players they
didn't go after, just because I would have.
Speaker 1: I had. I didn't even have higher hopes.
Speaker 2: I just would have went more aggressively because and this
is a compliment, we're gonnat killed.
Speaker 1: I won't cut this up. I'm done.
Speaker 2: I like won't post anything when we do the I
used to post it for every team, but like we
have negative stuff to say. It's just not worth my
listen to the whole podcast, Like it's not worth my
mental psyche of these YouTube comments coming up and people
getting mad.
Speaker 3: Can I cut in before you say a negative thing?
And I just gave a D plus. I fucking love
the Thunder, Like I think this team is great. I
love players. Is better than prime Michael Jordan's so of course,
you know, I mean that's from us, that's where we're
starting at. They have like three or four guys that
are better than prime Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: And this is just the off season.
Speaker 2: Like if when we get into over unders, like we're
gonna be so hot and when when when we hope
maybe we'll do it together the look ahead, we're gonna
love the Thunder. I still love the Thunder same, So
let's just throw away the side they were never gonna
go after someone in free agency. I still think teams
should do that. More like you fucking make the Lakers
pay more for Austin Reeves. This isn't thunder specific again,
does not factor into their grade.
Speaker 1: I it like I need.
Speaker 2: To know how they feel about Kason Wallace in a
guard rotation that includes Sga now Vasilier, Is he even
gonna play Josh lou Dort is there? Yes, you can
move some of these guys positionally, And I think we're
gonna see there's gonna be collateral damage here where it's
better not be Isaiah Joe, like he should factor in
the garveritation. Is it gonna be ty Ty Washington? You know,
Trey Mann feels like someone who could get bounced here.
So he's still on the roster, right, they didn't bounce
on Yeah, so that's like that's how crowded their roster
is right now. But I was like, this is Trey
Man still on this team to take on twenty two
and a half million dollars guaranteed of Burton's to move
up two spots. That's not good asset management, especially when
you saw what like less cap space could get, Like
they got two pretty good seconds just to take on
the expiring deal victor O Ladipo. I would have preferred
you could say this, like, well, they already have too
many players. The Spurs got like something to take on
Reggie Bullock. That's someone who could have helped them or
even if he was breaking case of emergency. And I
know Thunder fans' response has been and I think even
someone I can't remember who covers them for the athletic
one on the low posts and said, well, now they
have like a human trade exception in Davis Berton's and like,
I get it, but that runs counter to if you're
not gonna let me criticize the Thunder for not being
aggressive enough on the free agent market, I'm supposed to
believe that, oh, this is the year they're gonna be
aggressive and consolidate on the trade market. So that was
just I don't understand it. I like Cason Wallis as
a prospect. I don't see his future on this team
outside of being like the fourth guard, or maybe it's
the third guard, because you consider Shay or Giddy or
Loudord a wing just because they play so much together.
Speaker 1: Okay, fine, I did not love that. I think the.
Speaker 2: Trade with Denver was a home run because now you
control there first basically from twenty twenty nine through two
thousand and thirty.
Speaker 1: And the fact that you can't we're.
Speaker 2: Talking about their roster crunch to kind of move some
of these pick commitments back since they traded it was
like a least favorable twenty twenty four first, that's good
business by them.
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with.
Speaker 2: The Victor Oladipo deal from a pure value perspective. I
still like us Garuba, but it's he's probably just gonna
get cut, right, So what were they doing there? I
went with like, I just went with a flat C
minus for them because I think it was below average.
I just I don't it's not even I don't understand it.
They added to some gluts and I don't. I think
the biggest thing is they did not get good value
for their cap space this summer, regardless of what you
expected them to do.
Speaker 3: All right, I've as you've been talking, I've been thinking
about a couple of things. I think I'm gonna move
up from a D plus. I'm gonna join you in
in the C minus territory. And it's gonna be based
on a totally speculative belief that maybe Cason Wallace like
is a guy like and and that's that's the reason
they did this more you know, the Breton's dead money
or I don't know how dead that money is, by
the way, Like maybe this is a team that does
need shooting, and maybe they can rehab his value and
trade him for more than they when they got Wallace
was like a top five player in his class. And
he would not be the first Kentucky guard to just
get out of Kentucky, arrive in the league and suddenly like,
oh shit, this guy should have been a top you
know whatever pick.
Speaker 2: I might be mistaken too, I don't remember the last
Kentucky guard whereas they came out and they would just
build as like a three and D prospect too.
Speaker 3: No, I so I think, and I try to stay
away from this like, you know, full stop with rookies,
because we just we don't know and I don't care
what you did in college unless you're Tim Duncan or whatever,
and we just have this ridiculous track record to judge
you on. He might. I think there's a there may
be a case to be made that he could be
the kind of guy that justifies this even with the
positional glut, and he just becomes a massive asset for
this team that like maybe Giddy isn't someone they you know,
he tops out or he just doesn't fit or you know,
you want you think you can play Jaylen Williams at
the three or the four all the time and you
can just fit Wallace in there. I could, I could
see that being worth it, and so you know, that's
not the boldest play. But maybe this is just the
guy that they they knew they had to get and
they did it. So I'm gonna go see minus because
deplus feels a little low, so I'll join you too.
Speaker 2: Didn't Stowe, I'm sorry you're sticking with You're sticking with
the D plus and it's just I think even evaluate
it within how they were going to operate just a
little bit disappointed like C minus is still it's not
a failing grade. So do we want to go to
the next team, which is the Portland Trailblazers, who have
I think the most potential to date everything that we're
about to say on this podcast, right, Like, that's the
team that could blow everything up here.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: They drafted Scoot Henderson at number three.
Speaker 2: That gets into an interesting discussion where well, well we'll
get to it.
Speaker 1: Drafted Chris Murray at number twenty three. Uh.
Speaker 2: Drafted and I'm just listening to this because I really
like him Ryan Rupeer at number forty three and signed
him to a three year, five point three million dollar
deal with a team option on the final season. They
signed Jeremy Grant to a five year, one hundred and
sixty million dollar deal that includes a player option on
the final year, which will be his age thirty four season.
They matched a three year, thirty three point one million
dollar offer on Matisse stible that deal. It includes a
fifteen percent trade kicker he gets to Vito when he
trade for a year, and fifty percent of his annual salary.
Speaker 1: Must be paid by October first.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And they signed John Butler and Ibu Baji two way
contracts and then they wave trendon Watford is the only
other notable thing that I forgot right.
Speaker 1: Nothing else, Oh, yes, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think anything else has happened in Portland.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the use of Nurkics trade. No, the Damian Lillard
trade rumors certainly factor into this.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: This is more of a conversation for I guess the Spurs.
But I think what's interesting here is how do you
evaluate their decision to take Scoot Henderson when he's such
the obvious pick at number three. You can't credit them
too much when it's Victor Wimenyamalt like the Spurs, you
tank that shouldn't be part of your grade. In Portland's case,
the obvious player. But also given the fact that they
had Damian Lillard on the roster, there is some like
chutzpa here where it's oh, you you had the gall
to take Scoot Henderson, and so I did factor that
into my grade.
Speaker 3: I did too, and I this is a b slashing
complete for me because the Dame stuff just looms and
you know, depending on what they get for him, could
move the grade one way or the other. So I
don't think you credit them necessarily with all this, in
their infinite wisdom, they plucked Scoot Henderson out of a
draft class where nobody believed he would go. This was
the pick, right, Obviously, you take Scoot there. I think
like zooming out. The fact that they took him is
part of a broader plan that I think is the
right plan, which is to move on from Damian Lillard. Right.
I think it's very much the case that had they
picked someplace else where, Scoot was not the guy that
they were able to get. I'm not sure what this
team looks like or what direction they're going, and it
does seem to me like they weren't expecting to be
able to get Henderson. They got him, and that really
changed the dynamic between them and Lillard and their willingness
to you know, not tank hard, but you know, essentially
start the rebuild because now we've got our point guard
for the next ten or twelve years and we can
move on from the one that we had for the
past decade. So that's a hard move to make. I
think they deserve a little bit of credit for making
the tough decision to say we're basically pivoting now. The
problem with that and the reason this Great isn't higher
is I hate the Jeremy Grant deal. I just don't
understand how he was able to get Like where was
the bigger offer coming from. I'm gonna say that a
lot with with deals like this, he doesn't I don't
know that he's a positive value asset at that number.
I don't know that he is someone that like necessarily
like if you're bringing on Jeremy Grant, Jeremy Grant's a
good player. I think the best version of Jeremy Grant
is like a fourth or fifth option that's mostly there
to defend, and he can create shots if you need
him to. He's not the Pistons Grant or even last
year's Portland Grant, where he's got a pretty significant offensive responsibility.
Just that is not my favorite version of him. And
he's now being paid like that's the floor version. Like
this guy is your first or second option essentially if
you're acquiring him as another team. So I don't like
that that knocks the Great down. But big picture, just
like the the overall idea of we're ready to pivot,
we're kind of ending the Dame era, we're starting the
Scoot era, and it's messy and we don't know what
they're gonna get. But I just like the idea of
embracing like that it's time. So that's where I end
up with the B.
Speaker 2: I think, honestly, this might be one of our biggest divergences.
I go with a C minus here because they deserve Yes,
they made the scoot pick knowing Damian Lowd's on the roster,
but to not have a better hold on this situation
and allow your vision to be so shaped by where
you're landing in the lottery order when you already had
Shade Sharp, you were going through Jeremy Grant's contract year
even just the matist Thibel contract. It's like you now
have yourself. I don't the upfront payment, maybe they don't
care about, but like, you couldn't have negotiated something that
would have avoided this trade kicker or put you in
a situation where now you give him veto power for
one year that well, they're.
Speaker 3: Just matching that offer sheet. Those are all Dallas's terms
on Tyble's offers.
Speaker 2: So that's my point is like, why couldn't the numbers
not big enough for me to say, well, why weren't
you negotiating more aggressively yourselves with these bible First, Yeah,
that feels like a mini fail there, and so I
do give them credit for taking Scout Henderson, and it's
an incomplete as well, just we don't know until the
Dame trade could totally flip this on its head, Like
you need to have a better hold on the Damian
Lillard situation because now he's requested or demanded a trade
to this one team, which has held up your entire operation.
Because he's only he won't hurt the development of your player.
He's not going to be a malcontent that goes to
China and talks to kids about how much the front
office is lying.
Speaker 3: Sack sh right.
Speaker 2: So at least I don't think imagine if that's like that,
he's like looking at hard.
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is what I want to be.
Speaker 2: So but you needed to have a better grasp of
this situation, and we all saw this coming from a
mile away. People have been too thirsty for a Dame
trade for too long. You needed to have a better
hold on your vision. There's a point where it's flexibility
and there's a point where it's just utter ambiguity, if
not in competence, I think this was more ambiguity. I
don't think the Blazers are incompetent. The fact that they
didn't want to make the decision themselves, like is just
I have to dig them for that. I could even
probably be talked into a d To be honest, I
think they could move to Jeremy Grant deal. But you
know what, like you put yourself in a position where
you didn't really have a choice other than to give
him this contract because you didn't have a good hold
on your vision because you tied it and that's assuming
you did. You tied it to Well, let's see where
we land in the draft, and then we have to
wait and see what the Charlotte Hornets do. No, Like
you need to have like a more firmer vision in place.
And there was clearly a larger like disconnect between them
and Dame based off even if that was their plan
to just wait and see what happens with the draft,
he didn't think that was their plan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or or he he may have known that was
the plan and was not on board, like which which
you can definite defend him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think we'll see what the package
ends up being from Miami or if another team gets involved,
and that could certainly sway their grade.
Speaker 1: This is not a failing grade, but they.
Speaker 2: Needed to have a better hold of not just the
Dame situation and their vision and this offseason, despite again
making the scoop pick, took some level of courage because
I think Amen Thompson or a sar Thompson reasonably could
have gone number three. I don't like, in my head,
Scoot Henderson is going to be way better than those guys.
Speaker 1: I want to make that clear.
Speaker 2: If you're a team that's actually married to the now,
you don't see a trade on the table that you want.
Could they have just moved down and said, hey, we'll
go down to five and take usar Thompson or move
down to four for Amen, because the Rockets I think
would have wanted screwed or done a trade with the Pelicans,
like could we have gotten Zion? We've gotten Ingram who knows.
So I give them a lot of credit for that,
but it just never should have been so tied to well,
let's see like what kind of happens where we land?
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think I think that's all fair. I
think I'm probably giving them too much credit for just
kind of they're on the track that I like now,
even though it's sort of it's not quite by accident,
but they kind of just ended up in this position
without enough foresight.
Speaker 2: And I'm also probably I'm definitely daning them harder because
I don't think you did, just like for the matist
Taible stuff, where it's that's a you match that deal.
Speaker 1: I want to make that clear.
Speaker 2: But this is also a deal that you could have
negotiated with more favorable I fully believe before.
Speaker 1: He went out and got an offer that now limited you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right now, they're I mean, an interesting team
and ultimately incomplete because the biggest move is undone. So
we should hit the Jazz next, right, we should?
Speaker 1: All right, I feel you want to skip them. I
don't think anyone we'll just will conclude.
Speaker 3: I don't think the Jazz fans will want us to
skip him, because I assume you're going to have good
things to say about them, like I will start with
the draft. Taylor Hendricks at nine, Yeah, no opinion there,
Keante George at sixteen, who also yes, really good and
price sends about twenty eight. Yeh got John Collins for
Rudy Gay and a twenty twenty six second via the
Grizzlies renegotiated and extended Jordan Clarkson's deal, So now it
is essentially three years around fifty one point nine million.
I think it can go up a little bit. I
don't know if you have that or not signed. Omer
you're at seven for two years about five and a
half million, with a partial guarantee on the second I
didn't really amount to anything, but I do want to
credit them for a sneaky Paul Reid offer sheet that
had all these contingencies in it that were clearly designed
to make him less palatable if he stayed with the Sixers,
and the Sixers then did match it.
Speaker 2: Three years, designed like social media to run rampant with
like just the jokes we saw about Joel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was so great.
Speaker 3: I just you know, it's kind of a dick move, honestly,
because now I think like some of these offer sheets
are going to start getting even more calculatedly funitive for
the retaining team.
Speaker 1: But it was.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it. I respect it. It was fun Uh
so uh that's I mean, I think that's pretty much
it for the Jazz. I didn't you you've got it here,
UH signed Joey Hazer and Johnny Juzang to two way contracts, A.
Speaker 1: Wave and carry.
Speaker 3: So I failed the Jazz on this great, great offseason, right,
Like I almost have no notes.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, what is there anything
that you didn't like about their off season? I think
the only thing that you can say is they took
on a lot of John Collins and could that cap
space if could they have been more rest of with that,
because we're gonna compliment them for the Paul Reed contract,
but like they could have done some fun stuff with
bigger name free agents then, like they would have been
an interesting Austin Reeves team.
Speaker 1: I just can't.
Speaker 2: I still believe in John Collins. So I'm just all bored,
Like that's the value for John Collins. There is sort
of like a weird vision for this team now in
the front court where we know Lowry Marketing can play
the three, but you have Taylor Hendrix and Walker Kessler
and now John Collins into that fold. So you do
have these four like not big, but you have these
three forwards, three guys who should all be playing a
lot at power forward. Still like Lowry Markinen is still
going to be the biggest of mismatches when he gets
to play the the four offensively anyway, So throwing that
into the folds a little bit weird.
Speaker 1: And I will say, did you have it? You didn't
have any issue.
Speaker 2: I could see some people like already not liking the
Jordan Clarkson renegotiation ext tent.
Speaker 1: I thought that was smart.
Speaker 3: I think it was. I bumped on it initially just
because like, I think Clarkson's fairly overrated, but he kind
of mad he matters to this team, and it's not
like they add, you know, added some ridiculous number to it,
like and really it's structured in a weird way, right,
so where he gets basically, you know, twenty three and
a half million next year, but then it drops to
like fourteen in the in the out years, right, So
it's like it's whether you like, whether you love Jordan
Clarkson or you think he's a little overrated like I do.
That's that's just like good business because because he's at
fourteen million bucks a year, you know, next not this season,
but next and the one after, Like that's totally fine.
That's that's that's below starter level money by a significant amount.
And he's at the very least like can start for
you and it will score points. Like right, that's that's
the Jordan Clarkson experience.
Speaker 2: And he improved slightly as a passer last year too,
so to do that kind of like as late. A
lot of that I think was just the spacing and
also kind of the lack of other options. But if
you so like, the projections of what he's gonna be worth,
the salary cap in the final two years are nine
point nine percent at nine point one percent, yeah, nort
And look, maybe it makes him like I think that
that was just a home run. I think you look
at this roster and say, there's still kind of light
on capslock wings and I really like Keantay George, who
I knew very little about.
Speaker 1: Like before they got him, and.
Speaker 2: Maybe he kind of turns into your primary playmaker. But
you don't have that right now either, And so now
you've brought in some other kind of just like, oh,
like John Conn's a below average passer for his position,
and like, well Walker Kessler or Larry Market and make
improvements there. What it was Taylor HENDRICKX looks like, you know,
he's not I didn't really love jars Walker, but he's
the better passer than Taylor Hendrix, but I love Taeler Hendricks.
I think this was probably not the perfect offseason, and
so I just give them a flat a because there's
a I think a lot of not a lot of,
but there are just some like functional voids that could
they have looked at addressing a little bit more cleanly.
You're in the infancy of a rebuild, and I think
the fact that they didn't kind of try to accelerate
the process or enter this offseason.
Speaker 1: Thinking about need specifically, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of these players they need, like John Collins
is a pure value play, that's not a need when
you look at when you look at the roster, and
so I give them a lot of credit for what
they did, and just really quickly on the Paul Reid contract.
I want to see players have so little like agency
and restricted free agency, the fact that these deals might
be available to them, and I like the I like
the idea of these gamesmanship. I would just say I
would have loved to have seen Utah been a little
bit more aggressive with like the John Collins trade feels
like it might have been available later on as well too.
It's like, could you've just tried and waited out your
cat space a bit again? I can't dig them like
for anything he or they get an A.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's an A minus for me. And
and you mentioned, you know Collins is the deal is,
you know, you got a couple more years on that,
and it's a number that's not great if he's gonna
be Atlanta John Collins from last year. But I think
it's possible and maybe even likely that the Jazz kind
of look around and like, what's the last free agent
we really signed? What does this cap space even mean?
Let's fill it with John Collins. We've got all these
first if so now we've got like a twenty five
twenty six million dollars salary that we can throw in
there with first and if we want to trade for
somebody like that's that's option now, you know, I think
that's the most favorable way to frame the Collins acquisition
alongside the fact that it's just like they gave up
nothing to get to get him. So yeah, it's an
A minus. We didn't even talk about Hendrick, so I
know you love I like him a.
Speaker 2: Lot y just like I cannot wait to see him
in Kessler and market and play again.
Speaker 1: Like, I think that's the front court.
Speaker 2: And I think also the Hendrix Collins marketing combination is
interesting because I think it gives you a way to
navigate the defensive minutes while also being extremely versatile on offense,
like that you could play five out with those three.
And also you made a good point about Collins, there's
more risk. This is not what Detroit did. Where a
spoiler alert.
Speaker 1: Laz Jackson.
Speaker 2: We did the Detroit Pistons lookhead, which will go live
I think next week. Sometime was shocked at how much we.
Speaker 1: Love the Pistons offseason.
Speaker 2: Really We've had some YouTube commenters that were shocked as well.
I was, like, apparently we said some bad things about
them last year, but they did sign Marvin Bagley for
three guaranteed years, so they deserved it.
Speaker 3: I can say some bad things about that right now,
I'd love to.
Speaker 2: But like it did roll over their flexibility per se
because John Collins, like that deal goes out for three
more years, and like that's the risk. And if you
don't love it, especially when you have Hendrix and Kessler
market and I get it, But just from a pure
value play of what John Collins was two years ago,
and we've just when's the last time we saw someone
who's good even if you didn't think he was a
fringe All star where his team watched him be good
in a certain amount of way and then just kept
saying like, no, we're gonna continue to take away from him,
make his life harder, like repeatably.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that just tanked his value and now you
get get him for Rudy Gay in a future second.
So congratulations, Jazz Grant.
Speaker 2: Are you able to take us through our first team
of the Pacific Division?
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the Golden State Warriors price in my
Homer bias now, because that's how it's gonna go. The
big move traded Jordan Poole, Patrick Baldwin junior, Ryan Rawlins,
a top twenty protected twenty thirty first rounder, hilarious great
pick to trade, and a twenty twenty seven second to
the Wizards for Chris Paul Draymond Green is back on
a four year, hundred million dollars contract. Dark Rio Sarch
and Corey Joseph are on board at the minimum. The
Warriors drafted Brandon Pajemski at number nineteen and Trace Jackson
Davis at number fifty seven. Jackson Davis is represented by
Mike Dunlevy, the Golden State Warriors new top executive's brother.
So that's interesting. Dunlevy replaces Bob Myers, who I don't
know how much credit you give executives for team success,
but he I think fairly.
Speaker 1: Deserves a lot of ESPN Bob Myers right, Bob.
Speaker 3: Myers newly employed, newly re employed at ESPN. So dun
Levy and Bob Myers out. It still seems like it's
going to be kind of a collective decision making body.
Dante de Vincenzo's gone signed with the NIXT, Tijerome gone
signed with the Cavs. Jamichael Green, Andrea Gudala Anthony Lamb.
As far as I know, all three remain unsigned. I
think that's still the case. A Goodoala may retire. I
don't know if that's been officially stated yet, but I
think that's the way things are pointing. Quite a quite
a bit of activity online and some you know, a
little bit everything with interesting draft picks, big trade, significant
re signing that seems a little bit uncertain. As far
as Green goes. All told, I think this team is
significantly better. This is a B plus for me. I
am concerned about the Meyers void and the Chris Paul fit.
We can talk about any of that stuff, but B
plus for me. Where are you on this this Warriors offseason?
Speaker 1: I'm pretty high in it too, And you're a bad
Warriors fan.
Speaker 2: I think if you support like the Chris Paul acquisition,
and that's just like they gave up that if that
first rounder conveys, I know you're saying, hey, you just
signed pool to this extension, you turn around and then
have to give up a first round pick to get him. Uh,
it's like it's a fake for if you convey it
like something has gone incredibly right for you down the line,
and I think.
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. I'm just everything kind of.
Speaker 2: I think they played the Draymond Green extension right clearly
from by not giving him one to end up at
four years, one hundred millions perfectly fine, there's.
Speaker 1: A trade kicker, it escalates.
Speaker 2: That's like some stuff too consider But I think that
that deal is I don't think it's a home I
think it's just mark. I think it's what Draymond Green
could be worth over the next four years, which.
Speaker 1: Is absolutely perfect. It's just the question of how do
you view the Paul deal.
Speaker 2: If you believed in Jordan Poole, then you're not gonna
like the Paul deal. I did not believe in Jordan Poole,
and I think getting out of that contract without having
to give up a top nineteen first rounder is a
big deal because Chris Paul can still play, and just
my question. And I think it does impact how you
view the off season unless you're like, oh, I haven't
they signed Clay to an extension.
Speaker 1: Yet, which I'm just not. You know, if.
Speaker 2: They sign him to an extension is probably because he's
taking like massive pay cuts. I think they're gonna play
it like they did Green Anyway, I like it. I
really think Golden State, even dating back to the Kevin
Durant erar, I had put this in one of my articles,
they have sucked on offense whenever Steph Curry is off
the floor. There were certain lineups that had Kevin Durant
without Curry that worked. I want to make that clear.
Chris Paul is a million years old. But if you're
willing to run, pick and roll, slow things down in
the half court a little bit more, he can steer
you to a league average offense without Steph Curry on
the floor. So my two questions are, just are they
gonna let him play pick and roll with? Okay, who
is it Draymond? Is it Jonathan Kaminga? It's probably not
Dario Sharich, So that's a question. And then what does
it look like during the Steph and Chris Paul minutes?
Is that gonna be what you potentially close with? Or no,
you're gonna go with the dual big and Kevon Looney
and Draymond Green without having the answers. I still think
it was a very fair and measured by the way
gamble to make, and so I went with an A
minus here.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think those are those are the questions to ask,
and it really you could even distill it further to
say what role is Chris Paul willing to play? I
think because I do think I don't really have any
doubt that Steve Kerr will run pick and roll with
Chris Paul. Like if you have Chris Paul, like, what
else are you doing? Right? You put the ball on
a sad The same thing with James Wiseman, well right,
except this this time there's the guy who's making the decisions,
can can handle it. I think basically, if the theory
is that Chris Paul is willing to come off the
bench and is willing to go like god knows how
long between getting to close, because I don't think he
makes a lot of sense against many teams as a closer.
If he's willing to just embrace that role, this should
work because Paul is going to I mean, the Warriors
would have killed to be break even in the non
step minutes, you know, for years and years and years,
and I think it's it's not a big ask to
have Chris Paul and some combination of reserves and starters
play break even basketball for like, you know, the beginning
of the second quarter and the beginning of the fourth,
which you know is when Steph typically rests. That has
changed some over the years, But that's the idea and
the theory of this team. Just it makes much more
sense without Pool because now all of your biggest problems
turnovers being a huge one, late game decision making being another.
If you've got Paul to sort of mitigate that as
long as he's willing to play the role, that I
think makes the most sense for the team. You know,
maybe this should be an as for me, I just
the Meyers thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how to do that. It's like
I don't need there are enough money to offer him,
and they didn't. It doesn't sound like it.
Speaker 3: It seems like he was just kind of burnt, which
if you've been with this team over the years, like
there have been some like forny situations, like it's been
hard to deal with. So I don't begrudge him that
at all. I just wonder you never know, you never
know how much elite executive matters, especially in a front office.
That's like getting input from the you know, prize itself
on collaborative decision making. You don't know what one guy
really means. And the fact that they got the green
deal done without Meyers really being super involved, it seemed
like that's that's a positive.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, I think I think if any if
I were moving this grade, i'd move it up. It
feels like B plus is probably maybe a bit of
an under sell, but there are there are uncertainties, I
guess is where i'd leave.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 2: And also I also waited like it's clear that Chris
Paul is a more infury attractive human trade exception than
Jordan Poole. So if the Wars really wanted to make
a bigger swing and look at moving Moody and Kaminger
or some of the picks, that they can still move
later in the season when they have a better idea
of who they are or who's available. I think that
Chris Paul's salary and his contract, the way it's set up,
makes it easier to do that, which absolutely matters. Did
you have any thoughts on the Brandon the Pods pick.
Speaker 3: Well, he couldn't shoot it at all in summer League.
I don't know how much weight you put into that,
because he did shoot it fine in college. I just
as a as a departure from let's take some shots
on really good athletes, you know Wiseman Kaminga, Moody's not
quite the same, or you know, really highly regarded high
school prospects like Patrick Baldwin Junior was a ridiculously highly
rated high school prospect, got hurt, flamed out. I think
he still may be a decent NBA player because he
can shoot it. Pa Jimski is like the complete opposite
where He's kind of someone that just figures out how
to win, makes the right passes, like that kind of thing.
If he can't score, you know, either in the lane
with his floaters or make open shots, then I don't
know how much he helps. But he is like I
can understand, and I can understand how the Warriors would
justify a player like him who has like IQ and
understands how to you know, all the intangible stuff. Right.
I wouldn't count on him to help, you know, almost
at all as a rookie, just because one he's a rookie,
and two I think athletically he might have some trouble, uh,
just kind of adjusting. But yeah, I like the I
mean he went to Santa Clara. I feel like that
should we should have started with that disclaimer, so I.
Speaker 1: Listeners don't know that is Grant's Alba Mada.
Speaker 3: So I favor him. I support him. I mean, he
went to I can't think of anyone other than Jayalen
Williams that went there, so, you know, other than like
one of my five favorite players ever. So yeah, I
think I wouldn't count on him, but I like the pick.
In theory, I guess i'd put it that way.
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about him to care or not.
I just don't think there was no one drafted after him.
I'm like, oh, like fuck, Like the Warrior should have
went that direct.
Speaker 3: I mean Cam Whitmore went right after him. That's that
would be.
Speaker 1: That would be a very.
Speaker 2: Just traded Jordan Poole. And now we're gonna like do
the Cam Whitmore experience here. So and we're not sure
about Jonathan KAMINGI yet.
Speaker 3: I mean it's he's still ridiculous potential, but now we're
getting a little deep into the career and it hasn't
happened yet. So yeah, I get it. Are you you
want to do the Clippers?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's move on to.
Speaker 2: The Clippers, who did a shit ton of nothing. So
they waived Eric Gordon and it saved.
Speaker 1: Them nine figures in their tax bill.
Speaker 2: They resign Russell Westbrook to a two year deal using
non bird rights with a player option for twenty four
to twenty five. They resigned Mason Plumley to a one year,
five million dollar deal. They drafted Kobe Brown at number thirty.
They drafted Jordan Miller at number forty eight and signed
him to a two way contract. And they signed Musa
Diabete to a two way contract as well. The things
that are kind of hanging over this team that I think,
unless you I've missed a thing already is the James
Harden trade rumors he only wants to go there. The
Clippers apparently don't want the inclue Terrence Man and then
both Kawhi and Paul George are extension eligible. I don't
know where you ended up as a grade. I'm actually
giving them a higher one than I would have if
they extended these guys because I respect just not defaulting
to they just haven't played enough together like they're there.
Speaker 1: There's a discussion to.
Speaker 2: Be had about the way we talk about load management
and injuries with the Clippers, because whenever we talk about
it with other players, it does feel like, look, the
teams are making this decision, but when it's Kawhi and PG,
it's always framed almost as if they're the ones that
are actively deciding not to play, which feels a little egregious.
But then I'm like, is this a smoke fire situation?
So I think it's good they didn't sign them to
an EXTENSI yet unless they were completely favorable team terms,
because they just don't know that these guys are going
to be available together when it matters most.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean I would push back. I think
we do know whether they're gonna they are they will
not because they just haven't been. So yeah, No, we've
been doing this too long together, I think, or I
have been. We're you know, guilty of group think. My
grade migrade is a C plus, which is not like
through the roof or anything. But it would be lower
if they had max extended either of those guys just
because you can't in good conscience commit whatever it would be,
you know, four more years or even you know, three
plus one or whatever at ridiculous rates for guys that
just like they just don't play. You just can't. You
can't do it. So and honestly, I was gonna ask you,
is your grade higher or lower if Harden is a
part of this team. I mean, it depends on the package.
Speaker 2: But you know, because of what they could give up,
is they're really a bad like if they're trading Paul George,
we can get into it, but is there a bad
James Harden package that they that they could wind up giving.
Speaker 3: I mean, probably not. It would be more based on
the idea that just over the last several years, James
Harden has just kind of left places worse than he
found them. So you know, we're not We've talked about
this with Kyrie a lot too. It's just like, do
you want to be in the James Harden business for
any reason? And now that's like a real question I think.
I mean, James harm is really good last year. I mean, offensively,
he had a very good season. I just he's to
that point now where for me, it's almost like the
circumstances have to be really specific and well tailored for
me to even entertain the idea of him being on
my team because of what that means. Like maybe it's
different because you have Kawhi and you have Paul George,
but you know you had Joel and Harden wants to
play a certain way. You know you're gonna get certain
things from him. You know you're definitely not gonna get
certain things from him. And it's not like he can
transition gracefully into a smaller He's like the least scalable
guy in some senses.
Speaker 1: I think we've he might.
Speaker 2: Be the least scalable player in the League, not to
say he doesn't. The Sixers were great with him, the
Nets were great with him, the Rockets were great with him.
But like we've yet to see him. Joel Embie's probably
the closest he's come to taking step back, and that
was still more your turn, my turn stuff than Yes,
I know he up his catch and shoot percentage a
little bit, but this is not someone who's proven that
they can play off the ball. It's hun or is
necessarily willing to do that. I just they need to
play making. I'm concerned with how slow they would play,
but they have Russ for that, and look, Terrence Man
in Jack's pace. They don't use him enough as it is,
And so like that you have to give up. I'm
just doing it. I will say, is it you don't?
You still make the trade, but I guess like Russ
and James Harden are still cool.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean the fact that like that's like
fourth or fifth down the list of questions you have,
you know, and that's a significant one says a lot
about kind of the shit that you're in for if
you put this player on this team. I think I
think I do it too, just because what is it
ultimately gonna. It's like Terrence Mann is the deal breaker.
We both like him a lot, but really like you
could you know again, I was talking about the specific
circumstances with respect to Harden. This is these are kind
of the circumstances where the idea would be lighten the
load on Kawhi and Paul George and having two other,
you know, really established playmaking wings just that can both
defend like that. Maybe this is pretty close to like
how you would want your situation to be to accommodate James.
Harden doesn't answer any of the playoff questions, and it
doesn't answer any of the durability questions, which he also
has not to the degree of the other two.
Speaker 1: Between the three of them, it's like, oh, we'll get
He's a rock. Of them will be available in the playoffs. Right.
Speaker 2: There's also something uniquely terrifying about all three of those
guys just heading to free agency in the same offseason.
Speaker 1: Probably well too.
Speaker 3: I was thinking from the coaches perspective, having to deal
with like the just alpha's all over the place. You
didn't give a grade. I was a C plus.
Speaker 2: Where are you I remember to see? Just because I
don't know what they did that's above average. I guess
if you want to say the russ deal. But I
also kind of assume like, well, there's this is the
early bird right situation. We're just gonna have to pay
him later. I think bringing him back was good. I'm
Mason Plumbley. I'm indifferent to like, I don't know you
could you've gotten a better big for price point. I mean,
I like Bismock Biambo better and he's still floating around unsigned,
but you can't dg him for it. It's just everything
they acted and the Eric Gordon stuff. Yeah, she would
keep Eric Gordon. But when it's gonna cost you two
hundred million dollars to have Eric Gordon, I get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2: And so it's just like, yes, I it's not my money.
So they should have kept him because he was really important.
But I'm not gonna like give them an extra demerit
because they didn't want to pay one hundred and fifty
million dollars like they wanted to say. They shouldn't say
Eric Gordon didn't drive up the price day they could
have looked for YO, that's something you could get into.
Could they have been more aggressive in finding a new
home for like Marcus Morris and then been able to
keep Eric Gordon, Like was there some sort of compensation?
He's not expiring contract, Like you couldn't have done something
with OKC or Detroit or the Spurs or something. So
just to see nothing they did this offseason impressed me.
And but there's also the level of incomplete because of
the James Harden trade rumors.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I went C plus just because they
didn't immediately extend Kawhi and.
Speaker 1: Paul George and that matters.
Speaker 2: That kept that kind of kept them above water for
me though, because like what else did they do? I
guess you really have to like the Rust deal. I
just I can't bring myself.
Speaker 1: It was an average.
Speaker 2: They couldn't do a lot, but they didn't do anything
that you look at and go oh wow, like nice job.
And if the best thing they did was not sign
their two best players to extensions, it's.
Speaker 1: Like all right, like what is the bar here?
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, let's hit the other LA team. I
think I have them. So I'm glad to have your
sheet here too, because I did not have the Anthony
Davis extension on here three years, one hundred and seventy
seven point one million goes through his age thirty four season,
and he's got a player option on twenty seven to
twenty eight. In addition to that, got Austin Reeves back
for four years fifty three point eight million with a
player option on last year. There just, I mean, one
of my favorite deals of the offseason. I think you're
there with me. Rue Hachimura for three years and fifty one.
Don't love it as much. Not terrible sign D'Angelo Russell
for two years and thirty six million with the player option.
I think critically he doesn't have veto rights on a trade, so.
Speaker 1: Him giving that up was a big deal.
Speaker 3: That's a big win. I think Gabe Vincent on board
from Miami for three years and thirty three, Torrian Prince
Late of the Timberwolves for a year and four point
five million, Jackson Hayes and Camera DTIs for the minimum,
outgoing Dennis Shrewder, Troy Brown, Junior, Malik Beasley, Lonnie Walker
the fourth, and Mobamba drafted Jalen hoods Chafino at seventeen
and Maxwell Lewis at forty. I'm trying to see if
I missed anything else. I think that's other than some
later draft selling and buying picks. I think that's pretty
much it.
Speaker 2: They clearly like Maxwell Lewis, who was at number forty.
I look, this was a very good offseason for the Lakers.
I'm mad at other NBA teams, as I mentioned probably
on multiple podcasts, that they didn't make them pay more
for Austin Reeves. I'm fine with the Dangel Russell deal
that's built to be moved. I know there's the player
option on it, but he can't veto a trade. It's
just such a low number in the like it's it's
maybe twelve percent of the salary cap next summer.
Speaker 1: So and look, he's still like he's had. He had an.
Speaker 2: Efficient scoring season kind of before he came to LA.
And so they're might be teams that just value that.
I gave them an a minus kind of spoiling the
lead here. I don't know what move there wasn't like
other than I would not have taken jaellenhood Chafino, Like
you need someone. I know we're talking about rookies on
a team that maybe wouldn't play them. And I know
he gives you like maybe that capslock wing defender, But
this team needs spacing, and I thought the Torrian Prince
deal was great. Austin Reeves is going to give you
some of that, but you're still just not chock full
of Oh, we have good shooters and if you're gonna
try it all to play Anthony Davis with another big
Gabe Vinton's considered three indeed, but we've seen his three
point percentage slump a little bit. Ruey Hochi Moore is
not that guy. I also consider to be plus because
I don't love the Ruey Hochi Mora a deal. Agree,
very good offseason for the Lakers, but I just thought
that was like, who was giving him that type of money?
And you're banking a lot on what you saw kind
of in the later season and during the playoffs, and
even that is just like there's a clear ceiling on that.
Speaker 1: Dude.
Speaker 2: Is he a part of your most important lineups? The
answer is just gonna be no, most likely. But the
value that got for like Gabe Vincentatt, Austin Reeves a
plus plus deal, the Torrian Prince absolute home run. So
just the Jayleenhood Schafino stuff just makes it a little.
I take an issue with that more than the Ruie deal,
because at least we've seen like okay, Ruey kind of
works as a as a play finisher, And I just
I would have liked to see the Lakers been like, well,
let's either move up or out of this spot entirely,
not that they needed to acquire a veteran or because
they've just rolled the dice on. They were never gonna
be a cam Witmore team. That's fair, But like Hami
Hawkes feels like he would have made more sense pods
even once to the Warriors we just talked about.
Speaker 1: I actually even would have.
Speaker 2: Looked at Noah Clowney here just as sort of like
a rim protecting stretch big does he is he able
to fit with a d Why was Chris Murray not
on their radar? And I think even Olivier Max sens
prosper is just someone who or even Marcus Sasser, I
don't really particularly like him, but like they were just
better shooters on the board. In O Max's case, not
a much better shooter. I trust his jump shot long term,
but like someone who still would have brought you that
defensive value as well.
Speaker 3: I think I think generally speaking, the Hood Schafino pick
was pretty widely panned by you know, especially draft evaluators
that are more analytically based. So I mean, I I
guess I'm an a mis too. I knocked it down.
I think more for the Hatch murraa deal that I
didn't really love, I would just add, though I agree
with everything you said, I would add that you know,
if you're gonna sign guys for the minimum and you're
not sure you're gonna play them, but if you do,
you might only ask him to do one or two things.
I love Jackson Hayes and Cam Reddish as just like
let's see, you know, maybe Jackson Hayes as like a
fourth big or he might be higher than that in
the rotation. Like there's still obvious like physical talent with
both of those guys, and they mostly haven't been on
good teams. And I think for someone like Reddish, like
there have been enough stops now to where it's like
it's it's definitely not them, it's you, Like you're you're
not delivering. But in terms of just guys with physical
tools for the minimum on a team that you know
doesn't have to play them, I think I think those
are the kind of flyers I like. So that didn't
really meaningfully affect the grade. But but that's just another
reason that this was a solid to very solid offseason
for the Lakers.
Speaker 2: I did see some skepticism about the Anthony Davis extension,
and I didn't understand it, just like, yeah, do you
want to potentially pay him sixty three point four million
thirty four.
Speaker 1: Percent of a cap at age thirty four?
Speaker 2: Maybe not, but like you like you can't get rid
of him, like you need a pole star for if
and when Lebron leaves or actually kind of falls off,
which is just like, yeah, he's not the same player
he was, but like age thirty eight, Lebron, age thirty nine,
Lebron is still really good. Yeah, it's not always going
to be the case, or he's not always going to
be there. And the other thing, had you waited, like
the fact that he had that ETO and the way
it was structured, you couldn't he couldn't get a longer deal,
and so the fact that it's only three years, like
now you're not paying him into his age thirty five season,
And had you waited for him to get into free agency,
like you might have had to pay him and to
do his age thirty six season. So I thought that
was just a no brainer for them, and it keeps
them a little bit more flexible, also ensuring like, well,
we do still kind of have this direction with Austin Reeves,
with Anthony Davis post Lebron.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's just the going rate for Anthony Davis,
who like I'm gonna Bill Simmons this right now and say, like,
when he's at his best, he's one of the like
five to eighth, you know, five to eight best players
in the league, And if that happens to be in
the playoffs, which is all the Lakers care about, then
that's worth it.
Speaker 1: You know, That's nothing he does anymore. It's just like, yeah,
he can cover a lot of.
Speaker 2: Ground on defense, but he's not as explosive as he
once was on offense. Like his game if he's actually
on the court, his availability might not age well, but
his game should be fine.
Speaker 3: Right, Like he's gonna slow down and still be a
dominant rim protector like that. That's just you know, as
he fades, he's still going to have like an elite
skill or two. And it just, yeah, this is what
it costs to keep Anthony Davis. That's either you do
this or you don't keep Anthony Davis. That's just how
it works.
Speaker 2: I just don't see how if you don't think the
Lakers got a lot better, I don't know how you
dislike their offseason is just where I'm at. Agree, Let's
move on to the to the Phoenix Suns. If you
want to go, grab like a caffeine beverage or something
while I go through this for like eight hours. They
dismissed Monti Williams. They hired Frank Fogel. They traded Chris
Paul Landry Shammitt, four first round swaps, four second rounders,
and cash for Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin, and Isaiah Todd.
They then traded Isaiah Todd, a least favorable twenty four
first round swap and a least favorable twenty thirty first
round swap to Memphis for second round picks in twenty
twenty eight. In twenty twenty nine, both of which are
Memphis own picks. For anyone that might care about that,
they traded Cameron Payne New Orleans is twenty twenty five
second round pick and cash to San Antonio for a
top fifty four protected second rounder. So fake second, they
created a six point five million dollar traded player exception.
They signed Eric Gordon, Josha Kogi, Kita Bates, the op
Utah Wantonabi, Drew Eubanks, and Damian Lee to two year
minimum deals with player options. On the second season, they
signed Bowl Bull and Chimez Metwu to one year minimums.
They signed number fifty two to Mani Kamara to a
four year, seven point six million dollar deal. Only one
season is guaranteed. They also signed Udoka Azabooki and Saban
Lee to two way contracts. Just some other housekeeping notes here.
Jack Landelle signed with Houston for four years and thirty
two million, only.
Speaker 1: One season of that was guaranteed.
Speaker 2: Tory Craig signed with Chicago for two years and five million.
Because Matt Biama remains unsigned and I believe the Suns
still have their early bird rights on him that they
did not announce him. There's the DeAndre Ayton speculation if
you want to consider that. And then also, I don't
know how much this factors in for you. They made
Kevin Young one of the highest paid non head coaches
in the NB. Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 1: Here's I know.
Speaker 2: I'm curious as to whether you've come around on the
Bradley Beal. That's the biggest thing they did this offseason,
unless you think firing Monni Williams was as big. I
know you thought it was riskier than I did. Have
you come around to the idea, like, if you have
a problem with that trade, your real problem was with
the Kevin Durant trade, which has no bearing on this
offseason because look at the value they gave up four seconds,
four swaps, an expiring contract, and Landry Shammitt essentially for
someone who has an All NBA ceiling. You are not
going to get better value for what they gave up,
and you didn't. By the way, you didn't obliterate your
depth with that trade. You gave up two rotation players
for one better rotation player.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean the fact that they just hit
like seven consecutive home runs on their minimums has changed
my evaluation a little, like a lot actually, because Okay,
my knock really was, you know, and his basic stuff,
like I don't think Bradley bial is a positive value
player at that contract. It's just like he's not good
enough to justify what they're paying him. But then it's
like the Sons don't care. They're already you know, they're
trying to win a title, and he gives them a
better chance to do that than than the fucking Landry
Shammitt and Chris Paul and like three and a half
million dollars and all those picks. Right, So kudos to
the Suns for being very goal oriented. I so the
other questions I had were like, do you need a
third guy that's basically a primary shot creator if you
have Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. And there was some
pushback that I saw that. It was like, well that
kind of was their problem in the playoffs as it
was those two guys and nobody else could do anything.
So fair points, I take that. I think ultimately I
have gotten you know, hey, I'm giving the Sons an a.
It's like a flat A. So yeah, obviously I've come
around on it. I think the Beal acquisition in conjunction
with all all the other stuff they did, and I
to your point, like the Kevin Young thing, I think
that's a little fraud when you really pay an assistant
that the players.
Speaker 1: A lot for the head coach.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1: A little fraud.
Speaker 3: But like also I love it when teams are willing
to spend, you know, extravagantly on stuff that isn't affected
by the salary cap. So ultimately, I kind I like that.
And you know, it seemed like Monny Williams had kind
of lost the locker room a little bit. So and
Frank Vogel has won a title and is a good
defensive coach and might be better at.
Speaker 1: Reaching DeAndre eight and than Money Williams.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that relationship seemed broken between Eight and Williams.
And so if you want to even if all you
want to do is Rehabitan's value, maybe Vogel is just
a better person to do that, so you can trade them.
But yeah, this is an a to me, and it's
it's weird that so much of it hinges on guys
like Gordon and KBD and U Banks and Watson Abbie.
But it's just like, you should not be able to
fill out a rotation so effectively with minimum salaries, and
I just can't. I can't really remember a team doing
a better job of that. So so yeah, it's in
a The Sun's off season was a rousing success. Even
if I had hadn't, still have some questions about the
Beal thing.
Speaker 2: The thing I went back and forth on was you
kind of just punted on having any other playmakers on
the ross A by getting rid of Campaign. And there
are two ways to look at it. Was Campaign going
to be in their closing lineup? Absolutely not no, And
you still do have Eric Gordon kind of like sort
of a secondary guy there. The trade the TPA might
actually be more valuable to them this season the camera payne.
So I didn't know where to land on that, but
I will say to then not use like really any
of your minimums on like kind of a point guarding type,
just to have that knowing that these aren't the three
most durable stars in the world.
Speaker 1: I went with an ans just because it's the Kevin
Young stuff. You mentioned it.
Speaker 2: It made me a little uneasy. I don't think there's
a problem with it. I was. I don't want to
use the word uninspired. I think Frank Vogel was kind
of an unspectacular candidate to sentalon, but like Doc Rivers
got like really far into that process or something too,
so the fact that he might be able to reach
DeAndre Ayton, and when there is defensive uncertainty kind of
caked into here, it's like, okay, like Frank Vogel like
gives you a very high defensive floor, and I think
that that's really important. I'm just sort of like, when
we're looking at the highest level of beast ball, I
don't think you did anything to hurt your championship chances
by it's not even getting rid of campaign, but by
not using the minimum on could this have been like
a Corey Joseph team or or could they've been a.
Speaker 1: Reggie Jackson team?
Speaker 2: Nonge right, So I'm not I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying you didn't.
Speaker 2: You didn't hurt it, but you did kind of just
like there's a little bit more risk here. Maybe the
thought is, well, we'll just go out and get that
player mid season that in conjunction with and maybe he
still comes back.
Speaker 1: Like I really like Bismack Biyambo for this team. Why
was he just not like.
Speaker 2: Kind of part of like, do you think Drew Eubanks
is better than Bismack Biambo. I guess some people will.
I like though, I guess it's like a like someone
who can like cut through the lane, and I might
even trust him switching a little bit more just as
at least as a straight up rim protector.
Speaker 3: These are very small equipples.
Speaker 2: Though it was a it was an a off season
in some regard, not an A plus, could have been
an a minus.
Speaker 1: It was just somewhere in that range.
Speaker 3: There you go, all right, that takes us to the
Sacramento Kings, which I have here so renegotiated and extended
Demona sabonas so his deal essentially is now five years
for just under two hundred and fifteen million dollars. Harrison
Barnes is back three years fifty four million. Trey Lyles
also back two years sixteen. Alex lenn Is back as
well for the minimum and as is not as is
but nerlens Noel also signed for the minimum. Signed Sasha
Vesenkov for three years nineteen point nine million, with a
team option on the third year. Signed the Amiskida got
Chris Duarte from the Pacers for just two future seconds.
I'm not sure I would have believed that was possible.
A couple of year ago. Traded Rashaun Holmes and number
twenty four to Dallas for cash, got thirty four from
Boston for thirty eight and at twenty four second, and
they took Colby Jones at thirty four, outgoing Terence Davis, Chimizi, Mattu, PJ. Doser,
and Matthew Delavadova is unsigned. I will throw it to
you before I reveal my grade. It's not a good one.
So I would like to see what you have to
say about the King's offseason before I jump in.
Speaker 2: So here's what's interesting is that when they made that
Rashaun Holmes trade, it created this idea that they were
gearing up for something just mega. It's disappointing when you
look at their offseason measured against that. However, that mega
move wasn't out there like we campaigned for them even
before they made that move.
Speaker 1: By the way, we thought Draymond Green was a good
fit for no't no.
Speaker 2: He clearly wasn't leaving Golden State, and so you need
to evaluate did you really want them to go after
a PJ.
Speaker 1: Washington.
Speaker 2: How gettable was Jeremy Grant when he got the full
five year boat with a trade kicker and a player
option from Portland. The answer is he wasn't gettable. So
I have to pull back and say they had a
lay of the market, and I don't think because they
renegotiated and extended to bonus.
Speaker 1: This was not an issue of, oh, they misread what
this cap space was gonna do.
Speaker 2: That actually makes me more concerned about their offseason because
you do not give up first round equity to make
it easier to give an incumbent player in immediate race.
It shows him a solid You could have just given
him a five year deal next summer. And if he
didn't want to wait for that, if there's something behind
the scenes, the threat of him leaving one, no, like
he just had like a great season and the Kings
just broke their playoff drout and two it's just like,
so you're like him kind of agitating for this renegotiating.
I'm not saying he did this, but him agitating towards
the renegotiating extent made you want to keep him around longer,
Like the how could this blow up in your face
at all? So the fact that I don't believe any
of that factored in.
Speaker 1: I'm just not in the.
Speaker 2: Business of giving up first round picks to make it
easier to pay a player that I can just pay
anyway next summer. Who when you're looking at it from
a team perspective, where was the leverage coming from for him, Like,
I don't even know if I love this money. I
think he'll his deal with age just fine. He's a
very good player. I think they did some nice work
on the margins. Christa Warte is an interesting flyer. I
am now smitten with Vezzi, who I just think is
going to shoot the hell out of it. But it's
also sort of like, well, you have all these like
forwards who aren't small forwards now with him, Harrison, Barnes,
even Keith and Murray. Uh maybe Keith and Murray just
makes his on ball leap and defensive leap and he
showed a lot of it in Summer League and can
be more of a wing.
Speaker 1: I went with A just because I don't want to.
Speaker 2: I'm like still vacillating on this grade a little bit
because I think that it's some people are interviewed is
unfairly harsh.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with A D plus damn it because
is that what you went with?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It is also I don't I.
Speaker 2: Guess you can say, well, what were they gonna do
with that extra cap space other than pay Sabonis more?
And doesn't it make sense to pay him more now?
So that you're not paying him a year later into
his career. If you want a Galaxy brain that it's
fine you could. We saw like Reggie Bullock would have
helped this team if you wanted to use cap space
to do something like that and you gave up.
Speaker 1: The other thing is you gave up. I don't care
how you fear about Omax.
Speaker 2: Maybe you would have won a different direction, which you've
drafted Keg and Murray's brother, YadA, YadA, YadA. Like you
gave up a first round pick and you are not
a net pop that if because of it you kept
you Basically that was the cost of let's just say
they'll bring VESI over and you gave a first round
pick to renegotiate an extensive bonus. That's just how I
view this, And I think the other deals were fine.
I would tell some people didn't like the Harrison Barnes
deal that like might be the most bankable contract.
Speaker 3: They's totally fine, totally fine.
Speaker 2: So and the other thing, the final thing I'll say
is you didn't address like your defensive concerns at all
this offseason. Not I think Neuralan's The Well was a
pretty good pickup. You leaned further into the offense model.
We'll see how that works out for you.
Speaker 1: But to not upgrade the defense in any way, shape
or form is a choice like that, That is certainly
a choice, right, I think that.
Speaker 3: I think you know your approach to the Sabonis extensions
as being related to you know, giving up a first
and all that, all the asset management stuff. I think
that's totally right, I think. But the idea of this
the King's not getting better in a meaningful way or
in ways that they really clearly needed to is more
the angle that I come at it from. And so, like,
I got a lot of heat before I tuned it
out entirely. After like a couple hours, I did a
most overrated Players in the league, which is an impossible
task for br Uh. I don't know three weeks ago,
probably because what's overrated mean by whose standards are? We like,
what's the baseline and what people what's the consensus opinion?
How far from that is the player? It's so ridiculous. Anyway, Anyway,
Sibonus was on there. I ranked him number one. It
was right after this extension, the idea being this guy
just got played off the floor by Kevan Looney in
a in a postseason series, I will, while granting that
Sabonis was integral to everything the Kings did during the year,
a lot of people would say he mattered even more
than Fox did, Even though Fox was phenomenal in the
clutch and I think graded out significantly better by a
lot of the catch alls. Sabonis's you know, elbow passing
and interior play just mattered a ton. It mattered a
ton to a team that won forty eight games, which
it wasn't that long ago that that's like eight seed
territory in the West, right, it happened to be much
better than that this past season, and a team that
could not defend for shit, especially in the playoffs against
the Warriors, team that actually, it turns out, was not
that great at the time. So they got upset in
the first by a team that I think we should
have had real questions about. And so Bonus was a
massive reason that the Kings did not advance. And he
was making eighteen to five last year, you're two xing
that as soon as this extension fully kicks in, he's
gonna make thirty. And then you're three xing that towards
the end of this deal on an annual basis, so
you've locked in at a max level rate. Essentially a
guy that puts a ceiling on how good you can
be in the playoffs because he doesn't space the floor,
because he doesn't defend in space, because he's severely limited
in ways that totally matter if you're trying to win
playoff series, which is what the Kings should be trying
to do now. Right, because we've advanced, we've ended the
playoff drought, what's the next step. The next step cannot
be committing massive money to a player who raises your
floor but also caps your ceiling. So that's why it's
a D plus for me. I think the Kings were
in a position where they did not have to feel
pressure to do this. They did not have to give
Sabonis this money now, and they could have waited, and
maybe if they wait, they have other opportunities. They realize,
after a second year in a row, our defense cannot
survive with him at the center of it. We can't
give this guy two hundred million dollars. So Sabonis is
a really good player, he's not the guy that they
need in the middle for that amount of money if
they want to take the next step. And I'm disappointed
ultimately that this feels like, let's keep the gang together
because we'd like to win another forty five to fifty
games and maybe get out of the first round if
we're lucky. Like that's just that's a disappointing result to me.
While again conceding that Sabonus mattered and there weren't a
ton of other options, but they didn't have to do that.
They didn't have to give that big of a deal.
So that's a long winded way. I feel like I
have to defend myself a little bit because I've been
hard on Sibonis and that contract specifically lately, and I
think you.
Speaker 2: Had mentioned it and to anyone who might have listened
to it, and already two now because of what I
said when I say that they gave up a first
who essentially resign the bonus, like you didn't necessarily need
to do that because you were slated for cap space anyway,
it made it easier to keep Barnes. I believe they
used the room exception to sign VESI and so like
you were able to offload what was it between Rashaun
Holmes and then technically the Omax pick like sixteen and
a half million in salary, So that took you from
in theory like thirty five thirty six million in cap space.
Now you're down to twenty and that would have included
renouncing Barns. If you give Barnes this eighteen million dollar
salary that's by by cap space. It's just kind of
what I meant there, and so like you, that's why
you gave up.
Speaker 1: Because you were able to sign Harrison Barnes.
Speaker 2: And then still have cap space, and you use that
cap space on SI Bonus's renegotiating extent on a decision
that you could have waited. So I don't think I
was clear with those mode of operations, but I think
I'm also with you you said there. I'm probably higher
on some Bonus than you are, but to kind of
see how that playoff series on hold and then decide like, okay,
this is the right move. It does feel a little
bit unnecessarily not final, but like concrete.
Speaker 3: And I feel bad. I feel like I just I'm
bagging on Sibonis a lot. But it's just like.
Speaker 2: There's also something too, and I think fans will and
this will be a fair critique of both of us,
like they just had their best season in two decades
or whatever, and they're good and they can stay good.
But if you were going to do this with Sibonas,
you needed to then improve your ceiling in the Western Conference.
I just don't think they did that. What is their
path to being better, more dangerous than they were last year?
It's Keegan Murray pops and maybe he does, but is
he gonna pop on defense? Which was still I know
you kind of they had some pretty good defensive moments
in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: They did their ball pressure was great. That was a
real key, But that's not It's not the same as
having someone that is going to deter shots at the
rim or be able to switch as a bit like
that's just he just does. And the other thing I
was going to say, the way that Sibonis came up short,
what was essentially the book on him, Like this isn't
like you know, we knew this in Indiana. All of
these issues were present then and so then to see
it hurt you in the playoffs and then to pay him,
I just again like I think probably, I think you
hit it. This is the Kings had the best season
they've had in like twenty years a little less than that,
But that's only a small exaggeration, and I think the
vast majority of fans would be like, if we just
did that again, if we won in the mid to
high forties again in our playoff team, give me that
for ten more years. I'm happy. I don't think the
urgency to like, let's you know, be into the let's
get into the contender tier. I don't think that's really happening.
But the way I think we tend to think about
this type of thing is like, well, this can't be
the end. The goal can't be to win forty eight games,
Like that's that's not how you're you should be operating.
Speaker 1: And I guess are we short.
Speaker 2: Chaining the fact that the pat improvement could come through
Sabonis and Fox Fox age twenty six, Subonus age twenty seven.
Speaker 3: I Fox for sure. I think Fox was deservedly an
All NBA player and could absolutely get better. But I
just I think we know roughly what Sabonus. Like. If
Sabonus comes out and he's shooting six three is a
game and he's making like thirty five percent of them,
then maybe he's worth that money, probably not because of
the defensive issues he poses, but I kind of feel
like he's got such a specific and unique game that
it doesn't seem like there's a lot left like untapped.
I don't know, maybe you feel differently.
Speaker 2: No, And then just like the other thing here that
I that you have to factor in, I think it
goes about saying for most parts is like you kind
of limited yourself now if you want to go out
and make a move, and like there are still picks
you could trade, but this sabonus on this deal or
this roster makes a lot more sense if there's someone
different to put at the three, let's say so like,
but like you just don't probably have the war chest to.
Speaker 1: Get involved in it og Annobe' sweepstakes.
Speaker 3: At this point for right, And even then, I think
this is one of those situations where we're going long
on the Kings here. But this is the last thing
I'll say. I think they probably to be the best
version or like the next level version of themselves. I
think you kind of need a player who's not necessarily
better than Fox, but who is better than Sabonis, especially
in a playoff context. And now you're theoretically paying a
guy that is your third best player in this hypothetical
two hundred million dollars like that that that's not This
is like a Tobias Harris kind of situation where it's like,
you can't you can't spend the resources on this guy
if you want to get to, you know, the highest level, and.
Speaker 2: I think why it could be potentially unexpiring. I'm not
saying like they should have, not like you could have
just kept him. I'm not even saying that they should.
Speaker 1: Have gotten rid of him.
Speaker 2: No, And that's the problem is like it's you want
them to continue to get better. The West is going
to be harder this year, so there's a chance that
they're just worse. Like growth isn't linear, so they could
have a worse record, lower seed, and not necessarily be worse.
They're still a great team. So I just, yeah, I
would say last year was not a mirage, and I
mean that as like a compliment. But I just don't
know their path, how realistic it is now, or what
that path even is to get a lot better.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to read us what's happening
with the Dallas bat? All right?
Speaker 3: That is where we start. The Big One signed Kyrie
Irving for three years and one hundred and twenty million,
with the player option on that third year, which will
be his age thirty three season. After that, they acquired
Grant Williams structured ultimately as a sign and trade with
Boston two future seconds from the Spurs for Reggie Bullock
too future seconds and twenty thirty swap rights going to
the Spurs. That's all convoluted, but basically they got Grant Williams,
signed Seth Curry for two years and eight million, signed
Dante Exum for two years six point one five Where
are you laughing?
Speaker 1: Basically got Grant Williams.
Speaker 2: The twenty thirty swap feels like more than an asterisk
as I'm reading, and I'm just like, no, it just
gets Grant Williams.
Speaker 3: That's all we need to know about. Dallas resigned Dwight
Powell for three years, twelve million with the player option,
traded number ten and Davis Bertons to Oklahoma City for
number twelve, which turned into Derrek Levely. The Second also
acquired Rashaun Holmes and number twenty four, which became Olivia
Maxent's prosper from the Kings basically for cash using the
TPE from the Bertons trade. More or less, they lost
Slash remain unsigned, Justin Holiday Dan, Frank Millikina no longer
Dallas Maverick.
Speaker 2: Christian wore about to win and hang a batner for
the in season tournament.
Speaker 3: I think thanks to I don't think we mentioned Frank
Millikina in the Hornets podcast.
Speaker 2: So whatever happened like the night before or actually it
was days because mine mentioned I love that our brand
is strong, the hardwood, Knox, the discord, and my personal
mention just went on fire.
Speaker 3: So after the takeaway is the Hornets get an A,
we forget everything we said about Brandon Miller. They get
an A and the Maps get an F because they
lost Frankie Smokes. Christian Wood also unsigned Markeith Morris, Theo
Pinson ditto. They signed the Dallas did Matis's title to
a three year, thirty three million dollar offer sheet, which
the Blazers matched. So no ace wing defender on this roster, unfortunately,
since that was a pretty clear need. Nonetheless, I'll just
I'll just say it, this is a B plus for me.
That's with Kyrie Irving being someone I just generally do
not trust to be on a team that I want
to support or enjoy watching succeed. So, Dan, am I
too high? Too low? With the B plus? What about
this offseason stands out most to you?
Speaker 2: I think the so it's funny because it's a good
off season. And I look the Kyrie Irving deals, just
sub max money three years rather than four. I feel
like that's a really good out that's at least a
reasonable outcome, especially because of what you gave up to
keep him. He might have had more leverage than that,
and it allows you to use your full mid level exception.
I like a lot of the additions here and understand them.
I think it was good to go after matisz Thible,
the Grant Williams acquisition. The money is fine, the fit
is good. Just giving up that twenty thirty swap makes
me uneasy. It just it makes me easy. So that
is something that kind of stands out the most from
I'm just like, oh, but they got great value out
of dropping down two spots. I love just kind of
taking the flyer on Omax to get someone who was
Shawan Holmes, who, frankly, if he's healthy, should be able
to go play for you. You just have more shooting
with Seth Curry. I think they are going to miss
Reggie Bullock, like you're putting a lot of like weight
on the shoulders of I know people say Grant Williams
is the most switchable player, one of the most switchable players.
Speaker 1: In the league. He's not like this wing checking defender.
Speaker 2: You had that, at least in theory in Reggie Bullock,
who defended a lot of guards. Now it's okay, Josh
Green or we're gonna see Dante exhim in that role.
They have Derek Jones Junior now as well. I don't
know if we mentioned that, and so I get the
theory of him, I would probably land with a B
plus as well.
Speaker 1: I just I would have liked to have I don't.
Speaker 2: Know what they could have done to get a better
wing defender, So I don't know how I could give
them like a huge negative from there, but giving up
a twenty thirty swap to get Grant Williams and kind
of keeping this weird, like big man rotation is uneven,
and now what's the pathway to Derek Lively getting minutes?
So you're just gonna bring him along super slowly as
a rookie. Rookie again, you could talk me into like
an a minus though, just because of getting off of
Damas Berton's and then like to drop down two spots
getting the player you wanted and then still ended up
getting Rashaun Holmes using part of that trade exception and
a first you know what, Yeah, A minus for doubt
like the process of those events. I can't give him
an A for the twenty thirty swap alone. I just
it makes me wildly uneasy.
Speaker 3: Do you wonder if maybe they would have just been
better off taking Wallace at ten? Yeah? Like that's the
thought that's kept coming back to me, especially now I
like him, or because you like him, well, I just
I don't know. I I guess he's not quite the
like can he guard threes? Do you think is he
just not big enough to do that? I probably not be.
Speaker 2: Guys, if you think he could guard threes, that would
make so that would make a lot of sense then
as to why you would have kept him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just asking the question because I agree generally
like to move down and get off money and get
the guy that and Lively that you targeted, is like
that was just I think even on Draft night, we
were like, as one of the better moves almost anybody made.
I've since kind of started to have reservations about Wallace
maybe being really good, and so I'm coming off that
a little bit. But yeah, we're we're we're right in
lockstep P plus A minus. Good off season, although like
how much better is Dallas really relative to the West
teams that's trying to climb over in the standings like
a little bit, probably because Williams should help and a
full I just I don't know a good offseason though.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, and it's weird because it's I don't know
how high I am on them in the context of
like the Western con like the larger context of the West.
Speaker 1: But what what opportunities did they miss right off? And
what did they miss on?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm uncomfortable with them giving up a twenty
thirty swap, but I'm not like, okay, you know, like
I just I don't think it was like a disaster.
If Luca's still there, like you're probably fine and that
everything's hunky dory and Grant Williams will help you. I
am going to be fascinated by just their front court
rotation and as we already mentioned, like how the perimeter
defense is structured. And I also think you know, they're
really high on Jayden Hardy, so like that kind of
there's overlap there with Kasan Wallace a little bit too.
Speaker 3: And I think there's some Josh Green extension talk too.
I love Josh Green, so I mean that I don't
know if they.
Speaker 2: Would be an interesting landing spot if he ends up
at the minimum for Hamidou Diallo, just like, okay, you're
like another physical body. But they went to Derek Jones
junior route already he's not even like more of a
like I guess, yeah, you could place him, go get
that wing what he does to you offensively, I know
people just say space the floor screen and roll with him.
Speaker 1: Like that's just that's not how it works with Derek
Jones Junior.
Speaker 3: And I would just as you made me think of this.
I know we're trying to move fast, but Jones was
like a really vital part of some zone looks on
defense in Miami that were really good several years ago.
And so maybe he'd say three years ago was that, Yeah,
it was a while and he hasn't come close again.
Don't go after guys that are leaving the heat, it
doesn't work out. But certainly if you have Kyrie and Luca,
even Skinny Luca on the floor at the same time,
you might want to think about some zone stuff and
maybe that's the idea behind you.
Speaker 2: Do we factor that into the offseason where it's like, oh,
Lucas in the best shape of his life, I mean,
what could matter more?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 3: Like nothing?
Speaker 2: He conditioned Luka Doncrich would be the by far the
biggest edition of the Mavericks offseason.
Speaker 1: Even what everything they did a minus for me, I'm
giving him a.
Speaker 3: B plus, but it's an A plus if Luca actually
really stays in this shape and if he has abs,
if he comes back with I need abs for a name.
Speaker 2: All right, you got rockets to the Houston Rockets. They
did a bunch, fired Steven Silas, hired he Mayodoka, drafted
Aman Thompson at number five, drafted Cam Whitmore at number twenty.
Speaker 1: I have number twenty five written down.
Speaker 3: I'm an idiot.
Speaker 2: Traded Brooklyn's own twenty eight second round pick to Brooklyn
for Patty Mills and Milwaukee's his twenty twenty eight second
They signed Fred Van Fleet to a three year max deal.
There's a team option on the third year his age
thirty one season. They signed Jeff Green to a two year,
sixteen million dollar deal, the second season of which is
fully non guaranteed. They signed Jock Landale to a four
year thirty two million dollar deal, the final three seasons
of which are non guaranteed. Then, as part of a
five team trade. If he thought I was gonna mistakenly
say they saw Patty Mills, they sent out Josh Christopher
kJ Martin, Patty Mills, Usman Garuba, and ty Ty Washington
for the rights to Alpha Kaba and Dylan Brooks, who
was part of this trade, signed a four year, eighty
six million dollar contract with one million dollars and unlikely
incentives per year that could bring it up to a
total value of ninety million. It is on a declining
scale his salary, and the deal runs through his age
thirty one season. They signed Aaron Holliday, Trevor Hudgens, Jermaine Samuel,
and Darius Days all got to a contracts and grant
the biggest news of all, they waived Dation Nicks.
Speaker 1: He so king Dation.
Speaker 3: This is a great offseason. I think they hit on
both of their draft picks. I think Thompson was absolutely
the right guy there. I think whitmore is. I mean,
we've talked about this plenty, but a guy that was theoretically,
you know, top five, top seven, whatever falls to twenty,
you just take them. You just I don't care what else.
Just yeah, you just take that guy, especially if you
know you're you're already have a ton of young guys, like,
just take the fly or whatever. I've come all the
way around on the Van Fleet deal just because it's
really a two year max and it's almost impossible to
have that be a bad deal, really, especially if for
a team that needs someone to organize the offense, to
make open shots, to just kind of be a professional.
That that's a big deal. I love all the short
and non guaranteed and team options and all the other
stuff they did. They really preserved a lot of flexibility. Somehow,
while spending a bunch of money didn't get brook Lopez.
I don't know how we've weigh like one of the
few deals that like everybody seemed to think that was
gonna happen and then it didn't. I probably would be
higher on them. I guess if they got Lopez, but
who knows, maybe maybe they couldn't have got the second
you know, second year non guarantee or partial or whatever
on that. The only knock is the Brooks deal. I
think I just don't know if if it's worth it
to me to have his offensive shortcomings on board, even
though you do get great defense. I think probably if
not for the kind of postseason shenanigans and the just
uptick in I don't know historyonics and like inflammatory comments
and stuff. If not for that stuff, I think I'd
probably just view it as well, this is an offense
defense trade off. It's a little bit of an overpay
for that reason. But now it's kind of like, I
don't know. Still, this is an anus for me, and
I feel like when I started to say this was
a great offseason, you made a face. So I'm very
curious where you come down on this.
Speaker 2: I guess you know, I like am and Tompson more
than I did leading into the draft, and so getting
him at four, I prefer Asar Tompson, but I don't
view that as a miss. And they cam Wit Moore
just the value they get from him, I feel like
you're not criticizing them enough for or giving them enough
of sort of justice pullback for they miss on brook
Lopez and they clearly misread that situation. Now, the chain
of events that led to the Dylan Brooks contract that
got so complicated that his value kept escalating, you know what,
deals like, they kind of diminish in value after the
initial reporting. He's just kept climbing. And I think it's
a I know Emayordoka wanted him. I'm a Fred van
Fleet dining great. I thought way better fit than James
Harden ever was for them, frankly with what they're trying
to do the two things that I worry about. So
I mentioned Dylan Brooks already, but specifically, Okay, it's great
that you bring in his defense. Okay, who's your second
best defender in the starting line up now, assuming Aman
Thompson doesn't start, it's Fred van Vliet. That's a little
bit of a problem because does Jabari Smith Junior make
the lead big faith in him. I'd love to see
more of him at the five. I think we will
see more of him at the five. However, you sign Landale,
you get Jeff Green. What is the same about what
you're trying to do at center, Is al Pern Chankle
gonna have more of a quick hook because I don't
like that. I think al Pernchangin is really good. Does
that make it harder for you to get to Jabari
Smith Junior at center? I'm not gonna like that either.
And so it feels like when you look at this
roster there's just still too much logjamming thiss What is
happening with Kevin Porter Junior? Here are we just assuming
Cam Whitmore? Like Ken Port Junior is good, one of
the best pot up shooters in the league. Now, are
you just not gonna play Cam Whitmore? He's gonna spend
a lot of time in the G League? There is
This roster is better from a pure talent perspective, is better?
And late first round picks or late first round picks
you weren't gonna keep Garuba Washington was drafted last year,
Josh Christopher kind of flamed out. That's still just like
a weird chain of events, all of which to get
Dylan Brooks. And yet your depth chart is still so
complicated to where it's, well, could someone's gonna be left
out in the cold who shouldn't be And it's like
is that optionality or is it an unnecessary log jam
where it's like how much how many minutes does Jayshawn
Tait get with Brooks and Tarry Easan here and the
best way to kind of play everybody on the perimeter
is to get more of the Jabari Smith junior at
the five minutes? Did you make that a little harder?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 2: And so I just think there were chances And I'm
more worried about the Brooks deal than anything because I
think you're at this stage of the rebuild. It's okay,
yes we brought in veterans, but like we can still
experiment and having a twelve man rotation is not the
end of the world because we're not making the playoffs.
The Brooks deal, though, just like it's a and this
is all to say I gave them a B plus. Yeah,
we like there are things here I thought about, like
a B a B minus because to misread the brook
Lopez situation. I think that deeply, like think about how
far into the discussions they got. I mean, you know what,
I'm gonna give them a bee too, because what deal
did they win? Or like I can't win more in
great value that's an above average offseason.
Speaker 1: Still, you didn't win the Van Fleet deal. It's just
not bad. You didn't win the brook Dylan Brooks deal.
Speaker 2: It's declining. So I think you could say, well, it's
just not bad. Are they gonna be able to rein
in his offensive inclinations? That's a bit the Grizzlies couldn't.
What makes us think that Emaneo Oak is gonna be different?
Speaker 1: Maybe he will be.
Speaker 3: It's a bee, I will say, if you're trying to
sort of look at the Rockets off season as an
indicator for what the big picture plans are, it's kind
of murky just because there really had a bunch of
high lottery picks already. They're adding really two more because
what more sort of is that along with Thompson obviously,
who literally was a high lottery pick, but then you've
got all these you know, fairly high dollar relatively speaking
on an annual basis, veterans on short deals. So I
would I would push back a little bit on like
the Logjammy neist doesn't really bother me, because this is
clearly kind of like a like a one to two
year stopgap situation where I guess the theory. And again
this gets into the murkiness because I have to guess
at it is that you know, by the time Jalen
Green is really ready and Jabari Smith Junior is really ready,
and Thompson like, maybe you're then trading Fred van vliet
as an expiring contract with other stuff for a star
for a longer or something. You know, I can't really
figure out exactly what the long term goals are. I
just think in isolation it made sense to just add
some adults and sort of see what happens. And I
also I didn't I didn't talk about this enough. I
think probably upgrade from Silas to Odoka is the biggest
coaching upgrade of any team in the off season unless
I'm forgetting something. And that might be something that just
especially with a roster loaded with young guys who've kind
of gotten to do whatever they wanted, that's not going
to be how things go anymore. And so that could really,
you know, one start weeding out guys like Kevin Porter Junior,
for example, that's like, this isn't going to be You're
not gonna be able to play the way you want
to play here, so we're going to move you and
it might just sort of give you a better sense
of like what really is Jalen Green, because I don't
we have an idea like there's this zach lavininess to
him that you know, maybe that's what it is, but
maybe it's something totally different. And now that there's accountability
and organization on both ends of the floor, we'll get
a real clear picture.
Speaker 1: So I just benefit's from Fred Van Lee's arrival more
than anyone.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Yeah, for sure. He just take the tough,
take the five worst shots he takes per game away
and replace them with like theoretically open looks or just
he doesn't shoot them at all, and suddenly you know
his inefficiency is like you can deal with it. Yeah, No,
I think that's right. I like the off season. I
can see though, like you know, a mishmash of stuff
happening here that doesn't all seem to square.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go B plus because you mentioned maybe I'm
not factoring the coaching bump like on the court enough.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is I like that based
off who they were linked to over the off but
not going.
Speaker 3: For Harden for it didn't go for Harden totally. Yeah,
it's what that.
Speaker 2: Tells you though at informing the future, and I'm saying
I didn't wait this enough, which is why they're getting
a B plus, is they're not just gonna go out
and make a trade where it's because they're This felt
more like we don't want to send Okay, see the
fifth pick, rather than we need to make the playoffs
right now. And that what that makes you believe is
if we fast forward to around the trade deadline and
they're making moves, it's because as they're making a higher
end move rather than like think about what the Hawks
did with the Jentere Murray, where it was probably more
justifiable for them. But you're not gonna go after the
fiftieth best player in the consolidate in the fifty sixtieth
best player in the NBA. You're gonna aim even higher.
And I think there was a danger where it was, oh,
we're trying to accelerate this too much by going for
James Martn's better than the sixtieth best player in the NBA.
Speaker 1: But you're like too committed to acceleration.
Speaker 2: This was more about I think getting better about the
pick that they would while improving sort of the circumstances
both on and off the court, and so I wasn't initially.
Speaker 1: I just wasn't giving them enough.
Speaker 3: Credit for that people, And I think too, just the
last thing i'd say, you know, Houston is one of
those markets that, like your cap space actually does matter.
I think it is a desirable place to be. So
having the flexibility of all these non guarantees and all
these team options granted like a year or two years
down the line in Vanvleet's case, preserving some of that
flexibility to where if you really needed to, you probably
could clear significant space. All these rookie scale deals are
gonna balloon pretty soon, so that's an issue too. But
I think we're gonna need some of those out where,
like you're not prevented at all from just saying yeah,
we could get to forty million, Like we could figure
that out. You know that that that's on the table too.
So I think it's one of the more interesting offseasons.
But but yeah, I think I think we're pretty close
on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you talked me into what would they
have gotten for you if they landed brook Lopez. It
might have been an eight plus.
Speaker 3: I think it would have been a flat a for me.
For although like the money would have mattered, I wonder
how much they for.
Speaker 1: Two or three years, it absolutely would not have mattered.
Speaker 3: Well, that's right, I just did the vanfleet. I wonder though,
like how much of this because you may be right
that they sort of misjudged that situation. I wonder if
it was just Lopez kind of being ready to take
a big deal and then kind of just having the
thought of, like, yeah, but I could go back and
could contend in a place that has resurrected my career.
It feels more to me like he just kind of
had a had a an epiphany and just was like, no,
I can't, I can't do it.
Speaker 2: Like did they give where they offer him like three
and like seventy or something and he decided to take
two and forty eight eight from maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. That brings us to the Memphis Grizzlies.
Another really interesting offseason for Vision might have.
Speaker 1: Had collectively the most interesting. I mean, the Pelicans did nothing.
We'll get to that. Like the Spurs were like kind
of all over the place a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I guess the place to start is the
Grizzlies now have Marcus Smart acquired from Boston and a
three teamer that also involved the Washington Wizards. Tyas Jones
is gone as a part of that, as are the
number twenty five pick and a twenty twenty four Golden
State Warriors first rounder. Dylan Brooks also gone. We just
talked about him. That was initial essentially structured as a
sign and trade that involved the Hawks and the thunder
Desmond Bane signed a five year sub max I believe
just a little bit one hundred and ninety seven million
dollar extension. Derreck Rose on board for the minimum. This
was another interesting one, treated three future seconds for swap
rights on the lesser of Phoenix and Washington's twenty twenty
four and twenty thirty first and Isaiah Todd drafted Gigi
Jackson the second and Tarik Boberovich. Sure, I didn't say
that right at forty five and fifty six respectively. Did
I miss anything of consequence there? I do not think
he so. I guess I won't get my grade yet
because I led with it last time, the market Smart deal.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say the one thing they didn't decide well,
and then we'll just get into that because that's more
of a note.
Speaker 1: I didn't love the Marcus Smart deal.
Speaker 2: Basically for any team other than the Wizards, and I
understand the so you look at they're catching two percentages.
Dylan Brooks and Marcus Mart pretty similar over the past
three years. The difference is that defenses react to markets
Smart differently, like they will actually guard him more. So, Yes,
that's an upgrade. Do you think he's an upgrade as
a point guard over tyas Jones?
Speaker 1: The answer is no.
Speaker 2: As a passer and decision maker, the answer is no. Yeah,
I think he's a better player overall, He's not an
upgrade as an actual point guard. Now, the fact that
he can play and close alongside John Moran matters. And
now you've also rolled him into he's like a wing.
So you play him with Bain because of the way
he defends, and you play him with Jaw. You can
win Jaws back from his suspension, so you can't do that.
It felt like they were trying to check too many
boxes for what they ultimately gave up, which was two
first round picks, including I liked it. The Warriors pick
might have been the best asset of anything, including Jones
and what turned out to be Marcus Sasser that they
gave up. The player needed to be better than Marcus Smart,
and it also makes me wonder he slipped defensively a
little bit last year, and so you paid kind of
peak value for someone who might already be not on
the steep decline, but not as effective as he was
previously because of the wear and tear Boston put on him.
And maybe I'm galaxy braining this because I've kind of
thought I hated. I didn't like the deal for Boston.
Like I understand the two first round pick value, I
viewed it more as they extended Porzingis. So I don't
know what to make of that, but it felt like
from their perspective, it was we're going to capitalize on
getting rid of Marcus Smart more than we're trying to
get Porzingis. When that framework, and I know they had
a previous deal to get porzingis that didn't include Marcus Smart.
I understand that Marcus Smart can fit, but if you
were going to roll all of these boxes or want
this one player to wear all of these hats, that
player needed to be a better shooter than Marcus Smart
is going to be. And you've now you still have
the ability to go out and make moves, but like
you kind of you didn't ruin any flexibility. But like,
I don't think getting him made you good enough to say, well,
we still don't need that move that we're all talking about,
which we need this bigger wing.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good way to put it,
because I I this is a c plus for me,
and and a lot of that has to do with
I think Desmond ban is worth that, and I think
getting just deciding you're done with Dylan Brooks is a positive.
The Smart thing is I don't know what to make
of it. For all the reasons you said, I think
this is essentially a bet on because they are going
to ask him to do like really the work of
Jones and Brooks basically right, like and and so those
are two guys that mattered a lot. They're asking him
to do both, and it's a bet on the fact
that the slippage. I think people that you know watched
Smart last year, people in Boston particularly, would would say,
like he was not the same defender that he had been.
I mean, it's crazy, but he was Defensive Player of
the Year two years ago. I don't know if in
hindsight that's going to age all that well, but he
was not close to that last season and he's basically
settled in as like a thirty three three point shooter.
I do think it's a little unfair to say, but
it's not wrong. But to say, like, well, you know,
Tias Jones is just a better point guard that is
that is accurate. I think I look at it more
as like Smart just replaces Brooks in the lineups that
I really care about, and he's better at basically everything
on offense than Brooks is, especially if he has to
make a decision with the ball that isn't just take
the worst possible shot you can imagine, which Brooks excels at.
So yeah, I think in the in the first whatever
was it twenty five games that Moran suspended or twenty what,
I can't remember what it is like, that's not gonna be.
That's gonna hurt a little bit because he's basically your
starting point guard and he's probably not as good offensively
at all that stuff as Jones is. But I think
in the like fully realized version of this Grizzies team, Smart,
at least in theory, if he hasn't really fallen off
a ton, or if he can sort of slow the decline.
I like him there in the Brooks role. I think
I think him Baine and Morant together. I just you
know that's I love that one two three. There's there's
such a diversity of skill between those three guys that
it works for me.
Speaker 1: But you you outlined them.
Speaker 3: I share them. There are real questions about is he
being asked to do a little bit too much and
and bigger picture, they just still need another guy that
they still need somebody else to like up up the
ceiling of this team.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just I'm just wondering how much better
they are even if the most optimistic vision pans out.
Maybe it's Zia Williams hits you had to jump from
Santhi Aldama the other thing that they didn't do. And
I don't know if you gave your grade yet on this,
but the decision where you have so much room beneath
the first apron unless you just don't value him.
Speaker 1: But following the Brandon Clark.
Speaker 2: Achilles injury, I don't know how you don't like you
could have made Xavier Tilbman a free agent. Now handled
that deal, and just like the deal would yeah, would
have given him a raise. Maybe he takes a little
bit less on the back end of it then and
you also get one of his years out of the
way while you still have all this room under the
first apron. So I was a little bit surprised that
they didn't go that route. Not a huge because I
don't think I'm probably lower on Xavier Tillman than most
like Steven Adams isn't going to be around forever, and
he can do some of the dirty work that Steven
Adams does, and like, do you always want Jaron Jackson
Junior to be like a solo big at some point?
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the end game here. I was just a
little It was just like, why didn't you do this now?
Speaker 3: Type of Yeah, that's that's fair. There was a C
plus for me, C plus for me for the Griz.
Speaker 2: Oh they got they got a D plus for me.
That's a big You know what, the Desmond Bank contract
people didn't think he was a no brainer.
Speaker 1: You got that without a player option. I will give
them a C minus.
Speaker 3: Okay, perfect. So now we're now we're in the neighborhood.
You have the Pelicans. This will be quick.
Speaker 1: No, I don't really feel like having the Pelicans. You
want to, you want to think them.
Speaker 2: No, But so the the New Orleans Pelicans. I wonder
if we're gonna diverge here. But the New Orleans Pelicans
drafted Jordan Hawkins at number fourteen, signed Herb Jones to
a four year, fifty three point eight million dollar deal
with no options that runs through his age twenty eight season.
They waived then re signed EJ. Ladell to a two year,
six point two million dollar deal. I believe both seasons
are guaranteed. They signed Cody Zeller. They did lose Josh Richardson.
Speaker 1: He went to the Heat. They lost Jackson Hayes and
the Lakers. They waved Garrett Temple.
Speaker 2: Don't worry, he landed with the Toronto Raptors and Willie
hern And Gomez is now with He signed with FC Barcelona.
I believe grant thoughts on the on the Pelicans offseas
before I get my grade, that this is what I
was thinking about this this morning. We were very you
more so than me, high on the Pelicans at this
time last year, right, And I was justified because after
a couple of months in the season, they were like
the second seed.
Speaker 3: I forget what the dates are. There's one of those
things we repeat all the time during the season. But
they were second in the West in like I don't know, November,
December something something like that, and it was this is
the next powerhouse that rising. And then everything went to
shit and Zion had his off season and suddenly, you know,
I think most people would be much lower on the
Pelicans now than they were a year ago, and I
wonder why, Like how much has If you think about it,
the roster is not meaningfully different, and I maybe the
reason is Zion has gone another year without staying healthy.
Brandon Inger missed a bunch of time. CJ McCollum is
a year older. Jonas Valanceunis is a year older. Like
maybe that's the reason. But isn't there a case to
be made, like we should just be as high or
higher on the Pelicans as we were a year ago.
This isn't an off season question. This is just like
a Macro Pelicans thing that's kind of been bugging me.
Speaker 2: The only reason you shouldn't be is if okay, you
just don't trus Zion Williamson to ever play in more
than half the season, which I think is a fair
skepticism to have, But this is not a team that,
in theory needed to do anything major. I think my
issues if we want to start with the issues, yeah, well,
first of all, I have no issue with the Herb
Jones contract.
Speaker 1: Will the goodwill with.
Speaker 2: The player and the deal is good enough to where
it's like, oh, we'll lock that down now, rather than
worrying if he got the free agency. I know we
talk a lot about, well, our team's actually gonna give
him a mega offer if his three point shot doesn't improve.
He shot well later end of the season on ultra
low volume. I don't think his you know, sort of
floor game in open space came along as much as
the Pelicans would have liked, and I have questions about that.
The guy is going to be an all defense candidate
for the next half decade.
Speaker 1: This goes through his age.
Speaker 2: Twenty eight season, so it's not super old. He will
peak at nine point two percent of the salary cap
if that, If that don't have a problem with, don't
be one of those people that's like, well, they ruined flexibility.
Speaker 1: No, they didn't ruin cap space.
Speaker 2: And if anything, a year from now, he's more tradable
because he didn't just sign his new deal and he's
making more money to where now it's easier to match
in other sort of permutations. That was a that was
a home run deal. I'm actually shocked that he agreed
to it. I would have taken Kobe Buffkin or Keyante
George at number fourteen. Those were the direct picks that
went after them. You can't get to man. Grady Dick
would have been way better. He wasn't on the board.
I don't endok Kobe Bufkin. A lot of people are
lower on him now. I just trust kind of the
finishing at the rim and his ability to defend and
play off guard.
Speaker 1: I can't I can't hate on it.
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about how Jordan Hark Jordan Hawkins
is shooting. Excuse me, is going to translate? That should
probably be fine. I think my actual biggest qualm I
would have liked. You've seen them been more aggressive, diversifying
their front court and moving on from yonas Valentiunis was
there that floor spacing five out there? The answer is,
could they been trying to get into the Christops porzingisweepstakes
since they have some of these larger contracts. Sure Porzingkas
already went and got injured on another lower body injury,
plant or fascia.
Speaker 1: You can't hit on that. Myles Turner's not emanently available.
What are the names?
Speaker 2: Like you weren't gonna work out a sign and trade
for Brook Lopez? And so it's I I'm giving them
in a minus because there's probably they could have done
to all right, should we've gotten another point guard in here?
To where what happens if like who is their best
point Like if Jose Alvarado just kind of doesn't hit
next year, who's there? Who's the best point guard on
this roster? Like is it just gonna be Kyra Lewis junior?
In which case, oh, we can't move in deduct the
tax because he's our best point guard. Maybe they'll move
in before the season they have there. I'm gonna make
this is what I want to make clear their ceiling.
And you cannot say this about every team with this
current personnel right now, even with well will yonis Valento
is closed?
Speaker 1: Will he not close?
Speaker 2: Is they won an NBA title, They didn't need to
do anything major. They're going to be fine. If Zion
Williamson is healthy, if he plays in give me fifty
five fifty three games of Zion Williamson. This is a
top four team in the West. I don't know what
does he look like in the playoffs? YadA, YadA, YadA.
They didn't need to do anything major. If you're gonna
make more of a macro decision, you need to wait.
Maybe if he gets injured again, do you do something
at the trade deadline? Do you make it next off season?
They were clearly interested in Scoot Henderson, not at the
expense of Zion Williamson, and you and I had a
debate on that.
Speaker 1: They didn't need to do that. They didn't need to
get rid of Zion, They didn't need to get rid
of brandon Ingram.
Speaker 2: Are you like, oh, should they be extending brandon Ingram
right now? Do you want to penalize them for that?
I don't know why you would. This is an a
minus because and I might even go be I would
have liked to have seen them been more aggressive and
chasing trades, but I'm also looking at the landscape, what
and who was realistically out there for them to chase,
and they just didn't have. If you wanted to say, well, man,
this is team that really should have gotten in with
the Monte Morris sweepstakes. They're in this situation right now
when they're giving up that type of salary matching to
get even a nine million dollar player. You're not giving
up Dyson Daniels for Monte Morris. You're not giving up
are do you even want to give u? Larry Nantz Junior.
Speaker 1: At this point?
Speaker 2: And then it's like, well, teams aren't just gonna accept
Kyra Lewis as filler. You're gonna have to attach something
to that. So you know, is Cody Zeller the perfect
sort of backup or if you want to call him
Zion Giannis Larry Nance and then there's Cody Zeller as
your fourth big I don't hate it.
Speaker 1: I'd prefer Bismack Bumble just sitting there.
Speaker 2: I know he doesn't space the floor, isn't as good
as a pastor as Cody Zeller.
Speaker 1: I don't care.
Speaker 2: It's just what what did people want them to do?
And the fact that they did to herb Jones deal
now I think is a bonus, not some sort of
ham stringing decision that it's been painted as.
Speaker 3: All Right, so I have to say that.
Speaker 1: More impassioned than you thought it was gonna get the
word you.
Speaker 3: This is the most I'm gonna move a grade because
of your impassioned defense. So he's basically like you were
talking to me because I I was initially I was
at a C minus on this on the thinking of
what about a consolidation trade? Why is Valanchounas still here?
All this other stuff, but your case for they didn't
really have the ability to do the types of things
that I, in a perfect world would have liked them
to do. That being said, the only thing I really
objectively liked is the Herb Jones deal, which we've lauded
sufficiently now. So I'm gonna move from a C minus
because it was unfair to say, well, you should have
done all these other things when those weren't really on
the table, to a C plus, which still gives us
a probably our biggest disparity.
Speaker 1: I bunked at Pelicans fans. My venmo is defa valid
two zero three three.
Speaker 2: You can compensate me for talking grant into an above
average grade.
Speaker 3: Above average grade? Yeah again, C plus is good. No,
I Yeah, I think I think you're right. I think
I was too low on them. And especially that's silly
because I led this whole thing with like, why shouldn't
we think the Pelicans are just as good as they
were a year ago? Yeah, this is one of those
where the the specifics with respect to like what was
actually a plausible thing that could have happened for this team. Uh,
just make it such that like they didn't. Yeah, no
Miles Turner, no Porzingis, there wasn't. There wasn't a You.
Speaker 2: Could probably take just bigger issue with them not actively
pursuing like guard upgrades, where it's like Shake Milton would
have been really good for this team. Like that would
be something you could take issue with more than just
the front court player they need.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's available, it's not.
Speaker 2: Pascal Siakam, Joel Embiid would be just an interesting proposition.
Speaker 1: For this team.
Speaker 2: I think the theory of porzingis, but you have Zion
on your team, and look, even Ingram has been injured
and you want to get into Christaps Porzingi's business, No
fucking thank you.
Speaker 1: I think they're surprised you're as low as a C plus.
Speaker 2: I guess I would say the guard thing is that
they just like you get and like there might be
a there was an upgrade to make at the point
guard spot.
Speaker 3: I think too, we could be talking this time next
year and this season has gone the same or worse
than twenty one twenty two or twenty two to twenty
three for the same reasons, which is like Zion can't
stay healthy and Ingram just you know, is in and out,
and McCollum is aging and like.
Speaker 1: At that point, I think it will.
Speaker 3: So if we end up in basically coming off a
similar year for all the same reasons, then it may,
in hindsight, be fair to criticize them for maybe we
should have looked maybe they didn't look hard enough at
moving Zion while there was still some value and he
wasn't just about to log another twenty something game season
or whatever it is. But that's like, that's based on
so much speculation. That's kind of an unfair thing to
put out there.
Speaker 1: The other thing is is that.
Speaker 2: I don't like Zion's peak value might have already passed,
and so you're kind of in the situation where it's
if Zion just isn't who the player you expect to be,
you're totally fucked right anyway, what are you supposed to do. Yeah,
and so I'm just like, look like we had a
debate and I considered it if if Portland would take
Zion for the.
Speaker 1: Number three pick.
Speaker 2: We were that high on Scoot you especially like I
became more smitten with him after Summer League, like you
were on the Scoot Henderson bandwagon way before I think
even before he came out of the womb.
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, so.
Speaker 2: But like it just it wasn't out there, and it's
if you're looking for something nuclear and I'm not taking
there is at some point if Zion is Zion's healthy
this year at the trade deadline, and they don't approach
that with a sense of aggressive urgency, that's a separate grade.
That's a separate thing to talk about. It's not the
off season. We fast over the next offseason and they're
still kind of nonchalant. If they don't win the title
or make the conference finals, or Zion's not healthy, that's
when you like he is he's going into his age
twenty three season, right or he's still twenty three. But
I think though it's his age twenty three season, you'll
be going into like this is maybe it's the last
offseason of kind of viewing it this way, but it
was still relative to the options available, it's the best.
It's the best way to view this summer for them,
and I just I actually think if your grade makes
more sense to me, is like, well, like, why didn't
they just go out and get like a guard, like
a veteran guard, for so cheap?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair? All right? We got one more here.
This is the San Antonio Spurs drafted some tall guy
from France, Victor woman. I'm a I'm not familiar. We
don't need to belabor that one got Chetty Osmond, Lamar
Stevens and a future second by kind of sliding into
this struce deal between Miami and Cleveland did something basically similar,
getting Reggie Bulock to future seconds and twenty thirty swap
rights from Dallas for getting into the Grant Williams sign
and trade between Boston and Dallas. Acquired campaign a future
second in cash from Phoenix. Signed Trey Jones for two
years nineteen million. Love that signed Julian Champane Champanie Is
that right? Am? I getting that right close? Champagnie Champannee
for four years, twelve million. I don't know if it's
a team option or non guaranteed, but basically the last
three years, the Spurs are not necessarily on the hook
for of those four years lost Keita Bates, Gap, Romeo Langford,
Gorgy Jang, and also gave Greg Papovich five your eighty
million dollar extension. That's wild. So, I mean, I don't
know what you do with that, but that that was
a significant thing that the Spurs did. Otherwise, like you know,
got Wemby, but other than that kind of uneventful. Other
than just kind of finding ways to insert themselves into
deals as like a third party to kind of grease
the skids. I don't know what to do with the
Wimbin Yama draft pick. It was great franchise altering, but
it was also like not a decision basically. So this
is a B plus for me, just because I liked
the opportunistic kind of bent to the off season where
we're going to just find ways to extract assets from
other teams that can't just deal directly with each other.
And I think the trade Jones deal two years nineteen
is terrific. I think I think he's like a low
end starter at worst and can be much better than that,
and he's getting paid like eighth ninth man money. So yeah,
pretty pretty high on it even if we just I
don't know if you have. If you factor in Wim
Binyama and what he's gonna mean, it's an a plus.
But I just don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: You can't because that was there wasn't a decision to
make it sound like there was a debate, So they don't.
They don't get credit for rich Webenyama. With that said,
I still give them an a nice I love the
Champagni deal. I love getting Reggie Bulock getting the twenty
thirty Dallas spot. They made excellent use of their cap
space and the Thunder did not, And that's fair to say.
Speaker 1: Now I have a quipple.
Speaker 2: Oh actually two other things, well, one other thing getting
Dominic Barlow back on a two way I'm just based
off like his goosies, wingspan, like physical tools and some
of the flashes he's sewn on ball offensively. How is
there not like an NBA deal out there?
Speaker 3: He really stood out at Summer League. Girl, I think
I'm a surprise someone didn't come in and just give
him a fully guaranteed So.
Speaker 2: Still kind of having the option of him just being
there is a win for them. The Greg pavishily, I
didn't even have that my notes. I totally forgot about that.
I love that, just like there's certainty there and it
just makes it forget about Wembin Yama. The message that
might send to other players that are just like, if
you're talking trades, eventually, oh, Pops under contract, I can
go play for Pop for more than a second.
Speaker 1: I think that matters. My quibbo would be which of
these deals that.
Speaker 2: You pulled off would have prevented you from throwing your
cap space to inflate the deal on Austin Reeves for
the Lakers or another restricted free agent maybe not like
Cam Johnson for the Nets. I don't think there was enough.
Restricted free agent like PJ. Washington wouldn't have been it
for me. I also would have been rather I would
prefer Brook Lopez here to play with Wemby than than
the Rockets. Like could you have been in on that
and like Gon just been like, hey Brooke, we'll just
give you the max for what you want a one
year like what is it? Forty something million dollar deal?
Like all right, they couldn't go that high. But so
they could have done something like that. That's just my
only qualm. And but because the players that they I
would have been okay with them doing that for were
so specific and the list probably tops out at three.
When you're looking at like it's I can't be like, oh,
and you don't get an A plus because you.
Speaker 1: Didn't do anything groundbreaking. I think you were just smart.
Speaker 2: And if the webin Yama pick was made and there
was a debate between him and Scoot, and you made
the webin Yama pick, like I said to you, I
saw his worst game of Summer League.
Speaker 1: And I thought he was gonna be like the greatest player.
Speaker 3: Do you think if they go what would have been
four for like ninety eight or like one oh one
for Reeves? I forget where it would have topped out?
The Lakers just they just match right, like, is there
any chance they get him, get Austin Reeves?
Speaker 1: If if you don't want Austin.
Speaker 2: Reeves, I understand that, But you could have gone like
there was a there was an in between, like you
could give a smaller poison pill, then like you have
to go four for nine figures. I would have paid
him for for nine figure I'm saying, but if you
didn't want him, you could have done something like four
and eighty and just been like, we really fucked with
the Lakers books.
Speaker 3: Do you think that precludes them from getting into the
sign and trades though? Like would that have tied things
up between So maybe don't get a Bullock in that swap,
or they don't get Osmond and Stevens and you know,
I forget a future second or something.
Speaker 2: It ties up your cap space for what forty eight hours? Yeah,
I just they didn't make the Cleveland deal. Didn't because
I guess because you agree to it earlier. But like,
I think the most important thing they did with their
cap space, I mean even getting campaign it's like another ballhand.
I get it makes sense, but like that didn't happen
the Spurs deal with Reggie Bullock and Grant Williams.
Speaker 1: That leak that was complete on July twelfth. Yeah, you
had time to go out there and be.
Speaker 3: Like, hey, to mess up the Lakers plans.
Speaker 2: Now, maybe there were some urgency with the Calves deal
because they wanted Shrew so bad, but like if you
miss out on Jeddi Osmond, who gives you some shooting
and waving Lamar Stevens and at a twenty thirty second
then okay, like right, no great offseason.
Speaker 3: I just you know, it's it's kind of funny that
like we're just not considering women, Yama, but we just
we just can't do it. So h that's gonna do
it though, for our what sixth and final off season
Division grade extravaganza bonanza. So, Dan, unless you have anything
to add, I will take us out by encouraging everyone.
First of all, thanking everyone for listening, watching, participating. If
you are you know, commenting on any of the Twitter
links we put out, or you know, just getting in
there on the mentions on at Hardwood Knocks on Twitter
and TikTok at Hardwood Underscore Knocks on Instagram. You if
you're not already doing this, I don't know how you're
listening to us. If you aren't, but please rate, review, subscribe,
whether you're on Apple, whether you're whether you're on Spotify,
whether you're watching us on YouTube, leave us comments, Tell
your friends, share our links that we put out that
I say we that Dan so conscientiously puts out through
all of our social channels. If you have done all
those things, also you can get our merch which to
the link to which is in the podcast and YouTube description.
And if you have done all that stuff, thanks, no more,
no more request, no notes uh and we will close
as per usual by shouting out the wonder only Frank
Nelatina and apologize to jaredy