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Speaker 1: All right, what's up? We're live now. This is an

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odd time. I don't know. Maybe it's too early. People

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don't have their debate testicles dropping yet too early in

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the morning. They're too childlike they just came out of

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the womb at the dawn of the morning. I don't

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know what that means, but welcome everybody. It's an open debate,

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and as you guys know, that means that nobody will

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ever ask questions on the topic or stick to the topic.

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Speaker 2: They will talk about.

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Speaker 1: The dumbest stuff you've ever heard of, and they will

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not know how to unmute themselves because that's always what happens.

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So there's no point in even talking about it. We

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got one person already. The topics, as you guys can see,

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are Catholics, Muslims, Protestant, Atheist, Arian, Hebrew Roots, Joe's Witnesses, Mormons,

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cult sex, black, Hebrew Israelites, whatever we can get our

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hands on today. It's all on the table.

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 1: There's a black man, atheist, black science atheist man who's

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talking smack. Hopefully he'll come. Usually when I put sneak

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O and Tate in the title, it brings Muslims, but

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I don't know. I don't know what we're gonna get today.

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We've got row row dig.

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Speaker 4: What's up, dude, gotta I'm mute, man, Come on, I'm mute.

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Speaker 1: Roe dig Do you want to all? You have to

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unmute yourself? Okay, whatever, better than you. Here's the guy

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talking smack. Here we go. What's up? He's gonna set

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it straight?

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Speaker 3: Man? You just you just predict that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up? What's up?

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Speaker 3: Doll? You doing?

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Speaker 5: Man?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? What how's it going?

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Speaker 2: God?

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Speaker 1: You're gonna set as straight to disprove the existence of God?

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Speaker 3: Is that?

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Speaker 2: What's up?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 6: I'm I'm I'm from the Church of Letter the Saints,

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So I'm a Mormon.

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Speaker 2: Are you trolling? You're joking?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm like, I'm dead ass, I'm like a Mormon.

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Speaker 1: So like you sound like a black dude though they

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don't really like black dudes and Mormonism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but like you know, I just try to be different.

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I'm just trying to be Like.

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Speaker 1: You're trolling. You said that, you said follow the you

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know what I mean? Uh huh, Yeah, you're troulling. You

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said that you didn't believe in gods, and now you're

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a Mormon.

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Speaker 2: You're joking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So how can you prove God's.

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Speaker 1: Existence the transcendental argument?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so can you elaborate on it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Without God's existence, it would be impossible to give a

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philosophical justification for one's worldview. That's how tag goes.

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Speaker 3: Aren't worldview subjective?

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Speaker 1: No, I mean that would be a self defeating position

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if you believe that worldviews were all subjective.

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Speaker 3: So you don't think we would have different worlds.

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Speaker 1: Having different worldview doesn't. That doesn't entail that they're all subjective.

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That's a non secutor.

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Speaker 3: So do you think all world views are the same?

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Speaker 1: No, at route, everybody has a worldview, but not everybody

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has the same worldview. But that doesn't mean that everybody's

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worldviews are the same.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're not the same.

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Speaker 1: Right, But that doesn't entail relativism. So you understand that

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relativism will be a false conclusion from the fact that

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we have our own world views because there are things

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that we all share in common. Right, So, for example,

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you've got to have you got to have some account

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of knowledge or ethics in your worldview. So the question is, well,

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who has a consistent, coherent account of knowledge and ethics.

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Let me give another example of why would be impossible

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to say that worldviews are all subjective. If worldviews were

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all subjective, you couldn't say all worldviews are subjective because

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that would be a non subjective truth claim. That would

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be an objective truth claim. Okay, so it would be

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self defeating.

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Speaker 3: But how does that link to God?

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Speaker 1: Well, because if we're going to I have to give

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an account for our worldview, and that what I believe

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a worldview is is some basic commitments within the domains

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of epistemology, which is the doctrine of knowledge, ethics are

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right and wrong, and metaphysics what exists and what doesn't.

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So those three things make up a worldview, and we

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either have an account for that worldview or we don't.

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If God exists in the Christian worldview, then there's a

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reason and a basis for believing in the basic principles

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of epistemology, metaphysics, and ethics. If there's no God, there

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is no basis for having knowledge at all. You could

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justify your knowledge claims.

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Speaker 6: Okay, but well, I could go into all of that,

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But how do you link it to God? You could

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link it to anything. How do you specifically just link.

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Speaker 3: It to God.

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Speaker 1: Well, not anything can give a justification. So there's all

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kinds of things I could say therefore potato chips, right,

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But potato chips doesn't provide any justification for the principles

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that I'm utilizing, like logic, like reasoning, like mathematical principles,

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et cetera. All those things that are necessary to have

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a coherent worldview. They're not justified by me just saying anything.

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There's some kind of being that gives an account for

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them and grounds them, and that's precisely what God does.

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God is the type of being who would ground and

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give an account for those types of things.

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Speaker 6: But again, you're just assuming that there's a being that's

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accounting for that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not just assuming it. I'm making the argument. It's

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a transcendental argument, has an actual form to the argument.

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Speaker 3: It's a circular argument, because how do.

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Speaker 2: You prove that that's circular?

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Speaker 1: The circular the argument is proven by the impossibility of

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the of the contrary. That's a reductio argument.

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Speaker 6: No, it's not, because there could be other possibilities. You

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just don't know of any and you just assume it's God.

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There could be other possibilities could there.

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Speaker 1: Be there can't be other possibilities because it's set up

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in a disjunct of it in an either or you.

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Speaker 3: Said they can't or can't there.

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Speaker 1: Cannot be because the argument that because because there's a

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limited number of options whereas to where you can go

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in terms of a worldview, for example, No, there's not that.

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Speaker 3: So you wouldn't be able to tell me if.

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Speaker 1: You It doesn't require omniscience to make that statement. I

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can make that statement because there's a limited number of

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places that you can go to begin any worldview. Any

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there's not an infinite number of.

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Speaker 6: Story There is not an infinite to what you could

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link it to. And that's what I'm I'm saying. There's

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not not a limit to where you could link it to.

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You could link it, but there is being a god.

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You could link it to being anything else, but.

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Speaker 1: Then linked to anything else will not do the work

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of justification, because you need a certain type of being

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to ground the things that we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: What's that justificating?

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Speaker 1: What justification is a principle in epistemology. It's giving an

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account justified true belief for the knowledge you know.

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Speaker 6: Nothing else could justify justify what you just said.

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Speaker 1: Because there's a limited number of starting points for any

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possible worldview. There's not an infinite number of worldviews in

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terms of starting points.

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Speaker 3: What define worldview already did?

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Speaker 1: It's the basic commitments to the principles that we have

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in terms of epistemology, metaphysics, and ethics.

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Speaker 2: That's a worldview.

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Speaker 1: So for example, let me let me give you an example.

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Let me give you an example. Let's say, let's take ethics.

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Since you mentioned that there's not an infinite number of

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possibilities between knowledge, for example, ethics either being objective or subjective. Right, Okay,

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so there's not an infinite that's in either or that's

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a disjunctive. So there's not an infinite number of possibilities

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in that question. So therefore, the way you answer that

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question will determine a large portion of your worldview after that.

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That's why I don't have to refute every single worldview.

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Speaker 6: But you can justify your worldview by not defuting the

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other ones, because you're you're just assuming your.

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Speaker 3: Worlds view is right without knowing all of the other

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world views.

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Speaker 1: Again, I don't have to refute every single worldview because

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there's a limited number of worldviews from the vantage point

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of starting points.

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Speaker 3: So how do you know your worldview is correct.

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Speaker 1: Because that's the only one that gives an account for

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the basic principles that are listed.

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Speaker 3: Of pistemology, what else, metaphysics and ethics?

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Speaker 1: Right, So you need all three of those things to

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have a worldview. They're all they all kind of go together.

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So if I can argue that, for example, that universal concepts,

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mathematical principles, et cetera, those things can't be reduced to matter,

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and if God exists, then it makes sense why there

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would be those things, why the would be immaterial things

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like laws or laws of logic, laws of nature, et cetera. So,

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in other words, it's two different peeding world views. And

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the worldview where God exists those things make sense. The

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worldview where God doesn't exist. Ultimately, knowledge doesn't even make sense.

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It's not coherent at all. There is no possibility of knowledge.

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Speaker 6: There couldn't be any other possibilities where this could still be.

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Speaker 1: I think, well, I mean, you're welcome to argue something

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to what's your position agnosticism? You're not a Mormon.

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Speaker 2: I knew you were judged.

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Speaker 3: No, But how do you prove that it's a personal being.

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Speaker 1: Right. So, for example, this was the other question I

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was going to ask, if you were to talk about metaphysics, like,

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there's only a certain number of options that you could

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choose for say, the universe being intentional or non intentional,

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or to use the philosophy terms teleological or disteleological. If

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it's disteleological, then the universe has no purpose, it's purpose less.

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If God exists and God is personal, then the universe

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has purposiveness, It has an intentionality because the God who

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created it and is directing it to some end is personal.

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So that's another example of how if you choose a

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non personal absolute metaphysical principle or if you choose a

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personal one, that will have a huge impact on the

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kind of worldview that you have and whether knowledge is possible.

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Speaker 6: So what you just said was there should be a purpose,

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otherwise it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: I would frame it this way. If there's no purpose

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in the purpose, right, So if God is not personal,

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then there's no intentionality and purpose in the universe. And

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if there's no intentionality purpose in the universe, then knowledge

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is not possible.

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Speaker 3: Right. How is knowledge not possible if there's no.

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Speaker 1: Purpose because everything would be a purpose less and so

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what you think has meaning or has directed doesn't really

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have that.

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Speaker 2: It's all just purely subjective.

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Speaker 3: Well that that works fine with my worldview.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if everything is subjective, then knowledge is not

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possible and you can't even say that all knowledge is subjective,

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as we talked about earlier.

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Speaker 6: Well, we can look at subjective's truths in the community.

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We don't have to look at it as drastically as

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you're looking at it in the whole universe.

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Speaker 1: Well, but again, it doesn't matter whether it's the universe

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or whether it's the community. Like, there's nothing that makes

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something true because the community says so or think so.

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That doesn't make things true. Can't the community be wrong

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about stuff?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I would because he see that truth is subjective.

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Speaker 1: But no, but I'm arguing it's not subjective. It's impossible

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to actually believe the truth is subjective because do you

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understand that if you say truth is subjective, that proposition

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itself is self refuting.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not fine.

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Speaker 1: It is because you're saying you're making a universal truth

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claim that all truth is subjective. You can't make a

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universal claim if everything is subjective.

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Speaker 6: But but you can't make But if I'm saying everything

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is subjective, it's still subjective.

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Speaker 1: Every you're not justified in making the claim because you're

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limited as a finite being. That's a what in logic,

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it's called a universal quantifier when you say.

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Speaker 6: Everything, Well, we can make claims without.

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Speaker 1: Well, you can make claims all day long, but they're

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not justified claims. They're contradictory claims just.

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Speaker 6: Because we're not certain about something.

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Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with certain it's not about certitude.

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It's about a flat out contradiction. You can't say everything

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is subjective because everything is a universal quantifier about all

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states of affairs at all times. It's a universal claim,

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and that's not possible if everything is subjective.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well you're right, you're one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well see I'll see you at the

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Mormon temple ceremony next week. Good job, dude, light World,

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what's up, man? We'll get married in space and have

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some space babies. Light World, what's up? Gotta unmute dude?

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Speaker 5: Hey Jay, how's it going. I'm in I'm in the

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car right now, So I apologize. If there's a little

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bit of background noise, but I wanted to hop up

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here and just comment on a few things I don't

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want you guys were talking about. I found it pretty interesting.

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Little disclaimer. I'm a Roman Catholic, I'm cradle Catholic, was

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born and raised in the faith, and so I have

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my idea about God and what I believe. And there

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were a few things that you mentioned that I kind

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of want to want to just you know, I touch

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on a little bit extra right. So you mentioned that

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if God has like a personal opinion as to whether

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or not the direction of which, you know, the way

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the universe is going.

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Speaker 1: I didn't say personal opinion, I said intentionality. Sure, God

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doesn't have a God doesn't have opinion.

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Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, I agree exactly. So my point is is

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really where we seem to like anthromorphosized in God quite

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a bit by giving him human characteristics, saying that he

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needs this or he needs that in order for some

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there to be relevancy. My God, the Roman Catholic God,

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he deviates from all of that. He is not a thing.

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He's not part of this world at all. So to

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try to comprehend him or wrap him around in a box, uh,

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with that reason is you know.

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Speaker 2: Just I mean, your your own worldview.

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Speaker 1: Your own worldview believes in anthropomorphic terminology.

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Speaker 5: So what do you mean, what do you mean my

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own worldview believes.

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Speaker 1: In Roman Catholicism teaches anthropomorphic terminology can be used for God.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, so we have the Son of God and

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we have different.

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Speaker 1: Ways for us to understand that's not an anthropomorphic term.

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That's a person. The Son of God's not an anthropomorphic term.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate that. So let me let me, let me

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try to say this because I'm I'm really not trying to,

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I guess, debate on as much things to just kind

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of share my ideas. You know, if you disagree with

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my ideas, that's fine. I'm not really here to debate,

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just kind of.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, do you actually know the Roman Catholic

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position or you just stating what you think is the case?

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Speaker 7: No, I do, I do, and so I.

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Speaker 1: Don't think you do. I mean you think you do,

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but I don't think you do.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well, I think I do, and you might think

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that I don't. That's fine.

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Speaker 1: I mean I can already tell you don't by the

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missu incorrect terminology you're using. So what's your what's your point.

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Speaker 7: Go ahead, I'm gonna say.

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Speaker 5: You just speak very eloquently, you know, and and and

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you know you use a vocabulary very very well. So

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I'll give you that much. But I don't know if

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that means I know anything less about the Catholic Church.

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So God is not of this world, like I was saying,

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and Jesus Christ, you know we we we as the

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son of God. He came down to earth, you know,

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his representation, his physical body. Nonetheless, he was still God.

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That's the only physical manifestation we've ever had of God

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here on earth. You're in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not even truer, that's not right.

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Speaker 5: Well, and I believe that to be true.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, have you read the Old Testament?

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Speaker 5: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Did God ever appear in the Old test Did God

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ever appear in the Old Testament prior to Christ becoming incarnate?

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Speaker 5: Fair enough? Okay, fair enough. I give you that he

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walked with he spoke to Moses, Noah, multiple people.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you that, okay.

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Speaker 1: So it's not true that He only appeared in the

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person of Christ at the incarnation.

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Speaker 5: Right, none in these physical forms as a burning bush,

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maybe anything you know, camp morphosized in in which way

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that he communicated with Noah.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that did he wrestle with did he

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wrestle with Jacob?

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Speaker 5: So a lot of these questions, So.

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Speaker 1: I mean, did he wrestle with Genesis thirty?

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Speaker 2: Have you read this?

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Speaker 5: I can't literally, I can't tell you yes or no. Historically,

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I can't tell you yes or no.

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Speaker 2: I have I have my I mean, what does Jenesis say?

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What do you mean?

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Speaker 8: I want?

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Speaker 5: I want to give you I want you can I

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want to answer something. I want to answer something if

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I can, because you're you're You're asking me a lot

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of questions and I don't feel like I've been able

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to answer or finish any thoughts yet, and it's really

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making it hard for me to gather my thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh, Yeah, it's my fault. I'm sure.

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Speaker 5: No, it's not your fault at all.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 5: Like I said, I've already given you, you know, credit

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for being a very good speaker and all those things.

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So I'm trying to keep up with you. So in

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the Bible, Jesus see, I I'm getting sidetracked. I apologize,

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But in the Bible, uh, you know it says how

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Jesus spoke, and he he preached, and then he brought

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the disciples back, and then he explained differently to the disciples.

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So a lot of the Bible is written in allegory.

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It's written, there's a lot of historical accuracies, there's lots

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of literal accuracies.

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Speaker 1: Those thoughts of Okay, does Jesus take the wrestling with

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Jacob to be an allegory or does he identify himself

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as the one that was wrestling?

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Speaker 5: So all of it's through God. All power is through God.

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Anything that's done is through God. All of it that's

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all through God.

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Speaker 3: There is no man.

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Speaker 1: Do you hear anything that I said?

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Speaker 5: You asked me, who's through Jesus? I said, yes, through God? Correct?

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Speaker 2: Can you not even hear the questions?

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Speaker 1: Or like, does it not registering in your head what

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I said? Does Jesus identify himself as the one wrestling

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with Jacob in Genesis thirty two?

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Speaker 5: I don't overbaate him with it, but I can tell you.

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Speaker 1: That, okay, But you don't know what You wanted to

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get on and dispout a bunch of stuff. But I'm

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not trying to me. I'm not trying to mean to you,

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but you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Okay,

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So in John two, Jesus identifies himself as the one

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who was wrestling with Jacob in genals.

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Speaker 2: So you're just gonna talk over me.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, this is the problem with Roman Catholics is

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that you guys don't have any clue what you're talking about,

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and you think you know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 5: Power comes from God. I don't need to know.

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Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: What does that have to do with what I'm talking about?

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Speaker 5: All power comes from God. You cannot wrestle any adversary

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without God. Period.

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Speaker 1: You don't even understand it's Jacob isn't an adversary when

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he with Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 7: So what is symbol?

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Speaker 1: Because I this is idiotic, man. I'm sorry, you have

388
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no idea what you're talking about. I don't understand why

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you guys love to get on as if you are

390
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these super intelligent, know it all people and you have

391
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:28,519
no clue what you're talking about. Ads exactly. Roman Catholics

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are insane, That's what I mean. It's like the only

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people left in Romanism are people that are literally just

394
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nuts except for except for tim what's up?

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Speaker 9: I have a question what arguments that can use against

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the being modern day profets, because I remember those. What

397
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arguments can I like I can bring forth for the

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moderns being a falsed thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, Zachariah prophesies. I think it's Zakaria thirteen or fourteen

400
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that in the last which means the time of the

401
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coming of the Messiah, there won't be prophets anymore. If

402
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you claim that you're a prophet, you will be stoned

403
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because there's no such thing as people continue to prophesy

404
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after the last prophet. So Jesus says, for example, that

405
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John was the last of the prophets. So this idea

406
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of Old Testament prophets is no longer necessary, because, as

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Hebrew says in Hebrews One, we have the fullness of

408
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revelation in the person of the Messiah, so there's no

409
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need for continuing revelation. Secondly, the Canada Scripture itself is closed,

410
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so there's no need to have ongoing revelations. When, as

411
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Jude says, the deposit of the faith was once for

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all delivered to the saints and Jude three. So if

413
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that's the case, then there's no need to have these things,

414
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and that immediately cuts off anything like Mormonism, Islam. They're

415
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automatically cut off by the fact that the revelation has

416
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a finality to it, public revelation.

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Speaker 3: Okay, thank you. I also have a question.

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Speaker 9: I've like, I've read on some saints, but and like,

419
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what's with the saints being given like information like or

420
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revelation by good.

421
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's true.

422
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Speaker 1: There's clairvoyance, but that's not public divine revelation. That's part

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of the apostolic deposit right. That's why Jude says that

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the faith was once we're all delivered to the saints.

425
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That's the dog the dogmas and the fullness of the

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of the faith.

427
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Speaker 3: Right.

428
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Speaker 1: But that that doesn't mean that you can't go see

429
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an elder and he, you know, has a clairvoyance about

430
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you know, what your issues are, what your problems are,

431
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He knows something about about you. But we don't take

432
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those things and say, oh, that's part of the you know,

433
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the dogmas of divine revelation.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

435
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Speaker 9: So essentially what you're saying is the like the way

436
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that we distinguished this is because we've already been given

437
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the fullness of like information. However, a clayfuloice is different

438
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because it's information that we've has already been revealed to us.

439
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Speaker 1: Right, It's not part of the deposit of the faith.

440
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I mean, it could be a miraculous thing, like an

441
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elder knows miraculously that you know something about you or

442
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something like that, or he knows the future about what's

443
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going to happen to you, or something like that, but

444
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that's not part of the dogmas and the apostolic deposit

445
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the full Like Jude says, the faith, as in the

446
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doctrines and the teachings, were once for all delivered. So

447
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how could it be once for all delivered if it's

448
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an ongoing, endless thing.

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Speaker 9: Okay, yeah, I do, thank you, thank you, thank you.

450
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Speaker 1: So it's if you look at zachari At thirteen when

451
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it describes the Messianic era, it describes it as one

452
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where there's not really a need for the office of

453
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,839
an Old Testament prophet. In that day, every prophet will

454
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be ashamed of his vision. If he prophesies, they will

455
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not wear a robe of coarse hair to deceive. He

456
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will say, I'm not a prophet. I am a farmer,

457
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and it's talking about specifically I'm a Messianic prophecy because

458
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it talks about I was wounded in the House of

459
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my friends, which is a reference to Christ being pierced

460
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and crucified. So in the Messianic era, there's not a

461
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need for that that office of Old Testament prophet. That's

462
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why Jesus says John was the last of the prophets.

463
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That doesn't mean there can't be like you know, Clava

464
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,400
Wayans or something like that. Thank you guys for the

465
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:39,359
couple super chestess. I want to support the stream.

466
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:39,839
Speaker 2: You can leave with.

467
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: Super chat through stream labs. There is the link to

468
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,559
stream labs right there, and thank you guys so much.

469
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,000
Orthodox Mario, Do Do Do do?

470
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:57,599
Speaker 2: Dude?

471
00:24:58,319 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: Hello, what's up? Oh right, sorry, I didn't know my life.

472
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,160
I have a question. I'm a Greek Orthodox. I got

473
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:14,559
by the Greek Orthodox Church and I yeah, I saw

474
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:15,319
one of your videos.

475
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 10: I think you posted it a few years ago and

476
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,960
you were talking about how the Greek Orthodox has something.

477
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 5: To do with I forgot what it's called.

478
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 10: You basically were telling people to attend to the Russian

479
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,119
Orthodox because of what's happening in the Greek a sort

480
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:29,559
of church.

481
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, go arc.

482
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: So not every Greek church, not churches in Greece, but

483
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,039
the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is what I meant.

484
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: Oh you're talking about American.

485
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not in Greece, dude.

486
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you was talking what was it called?

487
00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:46,799
Speaker 2: It was?

488
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,279
Speaker 5: Sorry I forgot man talk about?

489
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 3: Do you know what I was talking about?

490
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: I mean you're maybe talking about the ecumenical patriarchy and

491
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,799
the CIA and all that. That's like a six year

492
00:25:57,799 --> 00:25:58,480
old podcast.

493
00:25:59,599 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: Okay.

494
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:04,759
Speaker 10: Also that's nothing to do with the the because I.

495
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: Mean England in England and the Greek Orthodose Church in England.

496
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: I don't know who.

497
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean. I imagine you're under your own bishop in England,

498
00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:14,039
so I don't know who the Greeks in England are under.

499
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,759
Speaker 7: Oh you were just talking about the ones in America.

500
00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: Is an American American jurisdiction, correct.

501
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,039
Speaker 3: Because I think we're all under bottle and you want me.

502
00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: Maybe, I don't. I don't know how that all works.

503
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,200
And alongst the Greek because I've never been amongst Greek Orthodox.

504
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:38,720
I've always been either Antiochian or ro Corps.

505
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 10: So would you would you say that whole CIA thing

506
00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:46,960
would be in the Greek Orthodox, where I am as well?

507
00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: Is it just in the American Well, I mean the

508
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,880
intelligence services have an interest in infiltrating and spying on

509
00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:58,440
and influencing every church everywhere, So I'm sure that that

510
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,880
goes on in the UK. I mean it's probably British

511
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,039
intelligence is probably not the CIA. But I don't know

512
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:07,599
anything about Greeks in the UK honestly.

513
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, because I've been watching you for a few

514
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:12,799
months now.

515
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,559
Speaker 3: You actually I'm Greek myself, and.

516
00:27:16,519 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 5: I ended up going to a Baptist church and then.

517
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,799
Speaker 2: Well, how did I help you if you went to

518
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:22,519
a Baudi church?

519
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 10: No, no, no, no, I was attended about Yeah.

520
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: I didn't know about Christianity.

521
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:32,559
Speaker 1: And then I started I got you. Well, I think

522
00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:35,680
I think I think Bartholomew is very sus and I

523
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,640
would avoid Bartholomew. But that doesn't mean that every Greek

524
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:40,319
church or person is bad.

525
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:41,319
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that at all.

526
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,759
Speaker 10: Yeah, I heard what he said about I don't want

527
00:27:44,759 --> 00:27:48,319
to look bad why the patriarch, But he said that

528
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,759
we worship the same God to Muslims and Jewish people

529
00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:53,559
and we're all into the same god or something.

530
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, he teaches all the same stuff that Francis and

531
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,480
Vatican too teaches. So yeah, he's pretty pretty sketchy for sure.

532
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:01,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

533
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:04,799
Speaker 10: Yeah, So you're the Russian or Phodos are not on

534
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:05,880
the hidden So what you're.

535
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: Saying now, Russians are under uh uh the.

536
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 3: MP Okay, thank you for that.

537
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:23,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, good questions man. Glad you're back out of Baptist world. Uh, Marty,

538
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:33,839
Marty the juice man. What's up? The super super chats

539
00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:35,680
are pinned if you guys want to leave the super

540
00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:40,240
chat there, appreciate that. Gott I'm mute, dude.

541
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 11: Hello, what's up?

542
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:46,279
Speaker 2: Hey, what's on your mind?

543
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,519
Speaker 11: Thank you? I want to hear more about that. Your

544
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:56,240
metaphysical kind of view. Uh you said something about the

545
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,920
transcendental argument.

546
00:28:58,839 --> 00:28:59,319
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

547
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:08,319
Speaker 11: I honestly like don't truly see the merit, but probably

548
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:16,599
you know, I can just don't understand. So are you

549
00:29:16,759 --> 00:29:20,119
saying that you need that? What is knowledge like in

550
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:20,880
your definition?

551
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:26,279
Speaker 1: Well, I would say there's different types of knowledge, you know,

552
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:28,720
the Greeks even had a lot of different Greek terms

553
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,839
for different types of knowledge. But if you mean justified,

554
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,880
I think justified true belief and gettier problem and all

555
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,039
that in terms of modern philosophy, is a valid question

556
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,680
to ask any worldview can they give an account for

557
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:44,359
knowledge claims? And you know, why ought we to believe

558
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,480
something rather than you know just what knowledge claims are?

559
00:29:49,599 --> 00:29:52,319
So I think there's an element of aught involved in

560
00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:54,720
all this. That's that's a big part of the argumentation

561
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,680
that I make ought we believe what is true, and

562
00:29:57,759 --> 00:29:59,799
so you can't really divorce point there is just that

563
00:29:59,839 --> 00:30:03,839
you can't divorce epistemology from ethics.

564
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:09,039
Speaker 11: Question. Okay, sorry, do you think that like a thought

565
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:15,680
can capture reality? Fully? Can any thought be like one?

566
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that because we're made in the

567
00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:23,960
image of God, we have the ability to reason about

568
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,559
the world and accurately understand the world. But that doesn't

569
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:30,680
mean that we have exhaustive knowledge or omniscience. That's why

570
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:33,440
God functions in the worldview to do that for us.

571
00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:38,599
Speaker 11: Yes, So what is it that you can know if

572
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,559
any thought is like no thought actually describes the world

573
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,319
as it is?

574
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: I didn't say that.

575
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: I didn't say that said.

576
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,319
Speaker 1: How do you know that no thought doesn't describe the

577
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:52,920
world as it is?

578
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: Well?

579
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 11: Because I can deconstruct like any thought and see that

580
00:30:57,519 --> 00:30:58,279
it's partial.

581
00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: Well, how but just because something is partial doesn't mean

582
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,480
that it has no relation to the world.

583
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:06,799
Speaker 11: I'm not saying no relation.

584
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that you said, you said, you said

585
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,319
it bears no similarity to the world.

586
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 11: I don't think that there's like no similarity, but I don't.

587
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,640
I don't think it describes the world. Actually, it's like

588
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,720
it is. I think it does describe partially.

589
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,319
Speaker 2: How do you know it does that partially?

590
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:35,119
Speaker 3: Then let me.

591
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,279
Speaker 11: Let me just one second, Like, how do I know

592
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:42,799
they describe it partially? I think it's like a deduction thing. Like, honestly,

593
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:44,359
I don't believe that we actually know.

594
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,319
Speaker 1: How would deduction tell you about inductive's knowledge?

595
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 11: Maybe I'm confused in the terms.

596
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:53,839
Speaker 3: But like.

597
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: Deduction is reasoning from the general to the particular.

598
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 11: From the past to the future. Like, like you know,

599
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:08,319
I know that let the ball.

600
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,839
Speaker 1: Drop, that's inductive reason.

601
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 11: Inductive However, yeah, sorry, so I'm saying, like, you know,

602
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,039
from uh, let's say, partial worldview, I call it conventional worldview.

603
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,640
I know that the ball will fall like a million times,

604
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,119
it will probably fall a million and one time. If

605
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,759
I you know, pick it up.

606
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,079
Speaker 1: Okay, well, how do you know that? So you think it? Well,

607
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:35,880
but how do you know that?

608
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 11: I'm saying it's like inductive or whatever.

609
00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:40,319
Speaker 2: It's like okay, but.

610
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:43,279
Speaker 1: David Hume, well, I'm making the human argument. That human said,

611
00:32:43,319 --> 00:32:45,599
you can't demonstrate or prove induction, so.

612
00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:49,559
Speaker 11: I can't prove it. That's I think that's part of

613
00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:51,039
my I can't prove it.

614
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: You can't.

615
00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:53,519
Speaker 1: So you're a human skeptic.

616
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:57,119
Speaker 11: I would say that I don't know. I'm not in

617
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,079
I'm more likey into Buddhism, like I understand it more,

618
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,599
I don't follow like completely Western.

619
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: Okay, right, So if you're a skeptic and you don't

620
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:10,680
know that there's the you know, the future will be

621
00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:13,359
like the past, then there's no basis or justification for knowledge.

622
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: So your your.

623
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:20,799
Speaker 1: Position is self defeating. Why because there's no justification for knowledge?

624
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 11: Claims there's no justification for knowledge? What does justification mean?

625
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: Justify true belief and the gettier problem?

626
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:35,039
Speaker 11: Justify true beliefs, and what.

627
00:33:35,319 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: The get to your problem?

628
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 11: Get here?

629
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:41,839
Speaker 1: Get to your problem?

630
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 11: Can you say?

631
00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: What is that?

632
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

633
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: It's an addition to the classic notion of JTB. Which

634
00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:50,440
is justified true belief, the traditional idea of what it

635
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,839
means to justify or ground your knowledge claims. Somebody pointed

636
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,160
out that you could actually also get something right accidentally,

637
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,960
but you wouldn't be just to fighting your knowledge. This

638
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,119
is why it's called the Ghettier problem. So it's just

639
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,680
an additional fourth criteria.

640
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 11: Okay. So basically, okay, so basically just you know, in

641
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,320
Layman's terms, why would you say that your self defeating.

642
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:21,519
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you if well, you said you

643
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:24,280
haven't read human, but I mean you're making a human argument,

644
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,760
and human skepticism is premised on the idea that knowledge

645
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:32,280
is not ultimately justifiable. You can't justify it. That's the point.

646
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 11: Yeah I can't.

647
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: Okay, then you don't have it then okay, then then

648
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,119
debate is not possible, thank you exactly?

649
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 11: Okay, so we can agree.

650
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: No, that's a reputation of your position. It's not an

651
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,960
agreement of yours. All right, So this is like low

652
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:57,760
tiered day O. L W, what's up man? Yeah, argumentation

653
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,719
is not possible. How is that a reputation of my

654
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,280
poss I was like argue against you?

655
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,079
Speaker 2: Ol W? What's up?

656
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 12: Can you hear me, man, So can ask a question

657
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,119
about the essence energ.

658
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 3: Distinction within God with what so?

659
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:23,039
Speaker 12: So if you consider God in and of himself, that

660
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:25,960
means that he's deficient with all the energies.

661
00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:28,039
Speaker 3: So the energy is not deficient.

662
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: He's not deficient. He never lacked energy.

663
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 12: So that's ridiculous, right, just because the energies are if

664
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,880
you're considering gods in and of himself, he's still deficient

665
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,719
with all the energy.

666
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: It's not deficient. There's no deficiency in God. That's that's

667
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:48,679
you have a presupposition about perfection, which is a medieval

668
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,239
metaphysical assumption which you can't justify. So this argument hinges

669
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,880
on stupid medieval arguments about perfection.

670
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 11: So, like, consider the energy of knowledge.

671
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: Let me show you how stupid this.

672
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:03,599
Speaker 1: Let me show you how about dumbest argument is, Uh,

673
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,960
God only created one universe and that's less perfect than

674
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,480
if he created two, three, four, ten universes. So this

675
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:16,119
is a dumb medieval argument based on metaphysical assumptions about

676
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,960
what perfection is. So I'm going to ask you to

677
00:36:21,199 --> 00:36:23,559
justify the assumption of the argument. How do you know

678
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:25,920
that that's what perfection is? And a divine being.

679
00:36:28,199 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 12: Right, So for being to be perfect, he has to

680
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,039
be omniscient, which which is that is?

681
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:37,159
Speaker 1: So what about all the other attributes? So is he

682
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,960
is he not perfect until he creates a world because

683
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,519
he hasn't become a creator.

684
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 12: No, because he is transiently eternally created.

685
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 3: He just hasn't actually done it yet.

686
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: No, that's not an If he hasn't actualized it, then

687
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:53,639
he didn't eternally create it.

688
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:59,039
Speaker 12: That doesn't make any sense, right, But transiently created it?

689
00:36:59,280 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: What is that? That is?

690
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:04,039
Speaker 1: And there's no such thing as transiently created it?

691
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: Right?

692
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,039
Speaker 1: So you're making up terms exactly.

693
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,519
Speaker 12: So I can will to build a house, but I

694
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:11,480
don't actually build the house now, I build it two

695
00:37:11,559 --> 00:37:15,239
years for now that trans yet metaphysics book.

696
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's we're not Aristotelian. That's why the aessence

697
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,960
introducing which comes from Arisa, Well, good for you.

698
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: But are you are you Catholic?

699
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:32,119
Speaker 3: Yeah? I'm Roman exactly, So I'm not asking.

700
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: Are you really are you really inquiring?

701
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,599
Speaker 1: You're not inquiring into orthodoxy. You're playing you're playing word games.

702
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,559
Speaker 2: Well I don't know, I yeah exactly, So.

703
00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:44,079
Speaker 1: You're a liar.

704
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 13: Goodbye.

705
00:37:50,639 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: Next up, I'm your dude, Greek name. I can't pronounce

706
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,239
your Greek name. I'm mute.

707
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: What's up? Okay? Don't low quality?

708
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 5: Hey?

709
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 3: You able to hear me? Killer?

710
00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 11: Okay?

711
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,119
Speaker 14: Quick question raised Roman Catholic I think goes on here

712
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:33,719
a while ago. I appreciate you answering the last question,

713
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,320
which was about, Hey, I can't really impact change on

714
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:37,079
a wild scale.

715
00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: But anyway, back to the question, Uh, the.

716
00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 14: Catholic position on the death penalty seemed.

717
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: To have been inconsistent.

718
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 14: Yeah, following kind of the trajectory of every other Catholic position.

719
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:55,079
Seems like a lot of the current writings appeal to

720
00:38:55,519 --> 00:38:59,800
either the un position or some sort of I don't know,

721
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:04,800
some some modern secular considerations. But just trying to get

722
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,800
an idea of what the Orthodox position on the death

723
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,760
penalty is, I'm not able to find anything specific.

724
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,639
Speaker 1: Read the ro Corps statement at the ro Corps website

725
00:39:16,679 --> 00:39:21,920
on war and you'll find also that the Russian Orthodox Church,

726
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:28,920
the MP still upholds the death penalty mospat dot ru.

727
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:32,960
Their website has a teacher the social teaching, So we

728
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,079
still uphold the death penalty, at least in the Russian

729
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,239
Church and probably the Serbs and others, but you will

730
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:44,960
find some liberalized Greeks and Oca that do not believe

731
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,239
in the death penalty, which is dumb.

732
00:39:50,760 --> 00:40:03,639
Speaker 2: What's up, dude? You got.

733
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,599
Speaker 1: Dude, I don't know why you keep coming on here

734
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:20,320
if you don't want to talk. That's no nonsense day today, Matthew.

735
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,119
Speaker 11: Yeah, a jay.

736
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:32,039
Speaker 3: I just wanted to get your opinion on Sam Simon

737
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:32,800
and God Logic.

738
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 11: I mean, I like him, but they put I know

739
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:40,599
San Simon, he's he's him, but Sam Stramone.

740
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: I just want to know if they're well.

741
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 5: I know Sam Sermon is very knowledgeable and he's I

742
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,480
believe he is Eastern Orthodox, right at one.

743
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 2: Time he would know he's not Orthodox?

744
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: What what?

745
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 5: What is he?

746
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: Because I feel like he's attending a Catholic church. He

747
00:40:53,199 --> 00:40:55,920
is a Syrian, He's of Syrian origin, so he was

748
00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:59,239
a Syrian Church of the East, and now he favors

749
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,840
Catholicism as I understand.

750
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 3: Okay, And what about I don't know if you know

751
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:07,519
God Logic, I know of him.

752
00:41:08,599 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 5: Him Jilly, what what what are his bully?

753
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 3: Because I really can't know.

754
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:14,599
Speaker 11: Yeah, I see, I don't.

755
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 1: I mean somebody said he wanted to do a podcast together,

756
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,679
and I said I was down for that, but I

757
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:21,639
don't know what his uh what what church he attends

758
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,800
or what his views are. Hm, it's your last chance

759
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,000
to do.

760
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: What's up?

761
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: I'm mute?

762
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: Okay, well uh huh.

763
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 8: Hear me y uh from Greeks, from Greece. I just

764
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:45,559
came back from Mount Athos. Uh so I have a

765
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:51,519
message for the Europeans may be listening. Mounts was very clear.

766
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:56,039
I wish I didn't take the new digital ladies, the European ladies.

767
00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: Uh. I spoke to spiritual children. No thin patios.

768
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,519
Speaker 8: Uh Oh, there are famous is the one and a

769
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:08,119
there are sinis and both of them.

770
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,559
Speaker 3: We're very clear about.

771
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,559
Speaker 8: It because from September selling from September, there will be

772
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:20,880
one one serio number for everything, so for example, the idea,

773
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:24,679
the bank accounts, everything will be in one number. And

774
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,280
that is essentially the last states before the markets the beast.

775
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: That's what I want to say, all right, appreciate that,

776
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:39,800
so avoid the US tracking tracing crap that they want

777
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:47,679
to push. Ricardo, what's up? Appreciate that? Hello, hell you,

778
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:48,079
what's up?

779
00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: What's up? Jay? There's like a huge delay on my Twitter.

780
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,559
Speaker 15: But I just want to ask you two questions regarding

781
00:42:55,599 --> 00:43:00,760
the transcendal argument. I was into the debate with Trent Horne,

782
00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:06,559
and he was claiming that the form that you the

783
00:43:06,599 --> 00:43:09,440
way that you elaborate on the transcendental argument is a

784
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,760
form of natural theology.

785
00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because in the course of that debate, Trent

786
00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:22,800
mistakenly used about three different ideas for what he thinks

787
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,119
natural theology is. So he thinks doing apologetics is natural theology.

788
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,719
He thinks using reason and logic is natural theology. But

789
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:33,199
when I send him the terms of debate, I defined

790
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,559
it according to his own church. Natural theology is defined

791
00:43:36,599 --> 00:43:38,840
and not just by John Paul and his few does

792
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:44,000
at ratio and cyclical. It's defined in everybody's theology as

793
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:48,079
reasoning about God apart from divine revelation. That's it. That's

794
00:43:48,119 --> 00:43:52,159
the definition of what natural theology is in his own system.

795
00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:55,119
So using reasoning is not natural theology. So that was

796
00:43:55,159 --> 00:43:57,920
really a stupid mistake on his point.

797
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,559
Speaker 3: Okay, I understand that now.

798
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 15: But also the second thing, how do you jump from

799
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:08,519
the transcendental argument, which I agree with, to a Abrahamic

800
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,960
Orthodox God.

801
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:13,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've done that a lot of podcasts on that,

802
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,920
So you can find the one that I did critiquing

803
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:19,519
doctor Ed Faser on universals. You can find another two

804
00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:22,880
podcasts I did on answering objections to the transcendent argument,

805
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,440
and I show in those videos how you get to

806
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:29,960
Trinity from tag. So it's too much to rehearse right now,

807
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,239
but you can go watch those videos how Martello no

808
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:34,000
wa it will.

809
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,119
Speaker 3: Did all right?

810
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:47,599
Speaker 16: So I I grew up like a pre standard Vatican

811
00:44:47,639 --> 00:44:52,719
two Roman Catholic, and obviously I didn't take it seriously. Recently,

812
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,599
I've been flirting with set of a contism. However, I

813
00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:59,719
have been kind of ping pong back and forth East

814
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,280
and West, and I've come to the conclusion that Eastern

815
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,679
Orthodoxy is better in theory Roman Catholicism is better in practice.

816
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,920
I say that because, like maybe it's just geographically. I

817
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,360
am like, I'm probably like the best place, like where

818
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,840
I live on the best place to like be said

819
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,239
of a contest in like the worst place to be Orthodox.

820
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:27,119
I just feel like most Orthodox churches are pretty liberal.

821
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,119
Speaker 1: As I mean, I don't know where you're going to

822
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:34,079
where where like not in my experience, but I don't

823
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:37,119
I mean I only typically end up in uh, you know,

824
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,400
Russian Orthodox Serbian churches.

825
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,559
Speaker 16: So well, it seems like even in those churches, like

826
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:46,960
the priests still seem like pretty like pro birth control.

827
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,519
And like that's the thing about Roman Catholicism is like

828
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,039
with like Copley with the thirteenth, we have like a

829
00:45:53,039 --> 00:45:56,719
magisterium of moral theology we cannot kind of lean back on.

830
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,519
Speaker 1: You don't like orthodoxy, No, you don't have that in

831
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:03,440
Rome Falsism either, So you understand. I mean, I'm I'm

832
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,920
surprised you haven't realized that. You know, state of a

833
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,519
contism is a totally dead end position, right, because you

834
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:11,920
love that it's a dead end position.

835
00:46:12,559 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 16: No, No, I love it because it's very simple and

836
00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:16,360
it's very fun.

837
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: A set of a contism is fun.

838
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 16: Yeah, Like the idea of like you're like a small

839
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,199
group of people and like the like is like apostased.

840
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: So it's a false elitism, is what that is?

841
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,639
Speaker 16: Well, I mean it's like when you read scripture, like

842
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,400
this is like the pattern, like the vast majority will

843
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,199
fall away and it's kind of like this small remnant

844
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:43,039
will kind.

845
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: Of okay, but let's cut to the chase here, because

846
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,480
if you read Vatican one, it's very clear that the

847
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:50,480
Roman Sea will not apostatize and fall away. So that's

848
00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:53,440
why Vatican that's why I said acusism is impossible, and

849
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,880
it's really it's really a sact. So you're in a

850
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,039
cult basically, no, because the.

851
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 16: Argument set of a concism is essentially like Vatican two

852
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:02,880
was not the.

853
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: Roman See And you didn't hear what I said? Did

854
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:06,599
you not hear what I said?

855
00:47:07,639 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 7: You said that the Roman Sea cannot apostas.

856
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: That when I said, I said, Vatican one teaches that

857
00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:16,239
clear as day, that the Roman See can never apostatize

858
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:19,119
and it will always have successors until the return of Christ.

859
00:47:20,639 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 16: Well, so on the perpetuitious successors thing, that's that's.

860
00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 7: Kind of easy to debunk because.

861
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 16: That's what you mean, Like if you mean the sheriff

862
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,199
Peter is going to be continually like constantly occupied.

863
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, obviously that's not true.

864
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:37,079
Speaker 1: That's no, it says successors until the end of the world.

865
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:40,159
You can't have a hundred year gap where there's no pope, dude,

866
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,119
and you understand you can never have a pope again

867
00:47:42,159 --> 00:47:44,079
in your system.

868
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 16: Well, I think, well, so the guys who say that

869
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,480
you can't have a pope again, are the ones who

870
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:52,360
say that the new right of ordination are invalid? I'm

871
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,320
kind of split on that. I think they're ambiguous at best.

872
00:47:57,519 --> 00:47:59,440
But I mean most said of a concerts will still

873
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,400
say that you could, like, there could be a new pope.

874
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: And how is that going to happen?

875
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 7: I don't know?

876
00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:10,199
Speaker 1: Right, So this is a total bullshit position. It's not

877
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,719
a real position. It doesn't exist. And that's why although

878
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,360
said of a contests all fight and hit each other

879
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,199
and to destruct each other's Have you read the book

880
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:17,239
Set of a Concious Delusion?

881
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I've heard you talk about it a lot, but

882
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,320
you haven't read read that. I've not read that book yet, but.

883
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: So you don't.

884
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,079
Speaker 1: So you don't think Vatican One teaches that there will

885
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:29,400
be successors until the end of the world. In the

886
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,000
Roman Sea, it doesn't teach that.

887
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 7: I mean it does say perpetuity of successors.

888
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: Uh huh? And so how were so there's not been

889
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,159
a successor in the last seventy years, when when is

890
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:41,079
there going to be another one?

891
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 7: I mean, there could be.

892
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:49,599
Speaker 16: How so one of the theories is like, like when

893
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:51,679
we keep making the joke about Pius at thirteenth and

894
00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:52,840
the Third Vatican Council.

895
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't see that this is totally divorced

896
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,400
from reality. I mean, I feel sorry for you guys,

897
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,159
But if that's what you if that's what you want,

898
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,280
go for it. Man, have fun.

899
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 13: It's going to ruin your life, atheists.

900
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: What's up?

901
00:49:19,199 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: I'm mute?

902
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 3: Man?

903
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 11: Hello?

904
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 3: Hi? Are you able to hear me? Great? Thank you?

905
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 8: Hi.

906
00:49:26,199 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 17: I want to ask you something. It's European for European

907
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,039
about this thing. I used to be an atheist, atheist.

908
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,159
Speaker 3: I'm Catholic now, but this.

909
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:40,599
Speaker 1: Is so you're still an atheist?

910
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, could you bring me a coffee?

911
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 3: No, this is what I wanted to ask, Like.

912
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: It's a joke. So you're still an atheist because you're

913
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:50,239
a Catholic.

914
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got it, I got it.

915
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 17: I want to ask you if you think that we should,

916
00:49:58,119 --> 00:50:03,360
which is the way, we should, try to convert atheists

917
00:50:03,639 --> 00:50:06,719
to God as well?

918
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,559
Speaker 1: Why convert them? I mean Francis said that atheists have

919
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:11,440
a path to God as well, and I mean your

920
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,039
own Vatican two documents teach that we all worship the

921
00:50:14,039 --> 00:50:17,519
same God anyway, Muslims, Jews, Christians and Hindus. So why

922
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:18,880
do you why are you trying to convert people?

923
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 17: Well, for me, the most important fight we got to

924
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,199
give is against atheism for starters.

925
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: Did you hear what I said?

926
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

927
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:30,599
Speaker 2: I heard.

928
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: Do you believe that Muslims, Jews, Christians and Hindus all

929
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:34,400
worship God?

930
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,639
Speaker 17: I will say, they have a misguided understanding of what

931
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:42,199
God is.

932
00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: So I mean it says that the plan of Salvation

933
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,360
includes Muslims. So I mean you can you can still

934
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:48,679
be saying what's the point?

935
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,639
Speaker 5: You know, I understand what you mean.

936
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 17: But what I wanted to ask you is do you

937
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,480
think we should convert them from God?

938
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

939
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: But you're missing what I'm saying is that you haven't

940
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,800
actually converted. That's my point because the God that you're

941
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,800
worshiping in Roman Catholicism is the same God as the

942
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,119
Muslim and the Jew and the Hindu, and if you

943
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:11,559
read the Bible, that's not God. Does Jesus say that

944
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:13,400
we all worship the same God? Or does he say

945
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:15,360
no one comes to Father but through me.

946
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 3: The latter, the latter? Yeah?

947
00:51:19,039 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So how is Vatican two in Nostratate and Lemgentium

948
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:23,760
sixteen correct?

949
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:25,519
Speaker 3: Well?

950
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 17: For the moment, I wasn't talking about religion. I wanted

951
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,239
to know your opinion about religions.

952
00:51:32,519 --> 00:51:36,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not talking about religion.

953
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:36,519
Speaker 2: What do you mean?

954
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 7: No?

955
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 17: No, I mean because I'm for the moment, I'm talking

956
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:47,239
about leading the conversion of someone to believing in God.

957
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:51,039
Speaker 1: Like you, there's no such thing as generic God. There

958
00:51:51,079 --> 00:51:53,679
is no generic God that doesn't exist.

959
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 3: I know, I know.

960
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:59,159
Speaker 17: But don't you think that some people need like a

961
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,360
pathway to follow in order to reach to the proper

962
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:03,679
understanding of God?

963
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 2: Again?

964
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, you could say, yeah, there's like steps

965
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,719
in the right direction, but I mean that's It's like,

966
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,400
if the thesis of Vatican two is that we're all

967
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,800
worshiping the same deity, then it's not getting you anywhere.

968
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 2: Terrence. Yeah, I agree, Like.

969
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: Why are we You're trying to fix the world. I

970
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,760
think you need to fix your views.

971
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: Terrence. I'm mute.

972
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 3: Hello, how are you good?

973
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,519
Speaker 2: What's up? Hey, Jamie?

974
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,079
Speaker 1: Terrence Howard, Terrence trend Darby, what's up?

975
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 18: And so I identify as a Hebrew Israelite. I don't follow

976
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:03,440
these practices of those that you see dressed in those

977
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,519
funny uniforms yelling at people in the street.

978
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 3: Corners.

979
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 18: However, I do identify as a Hebrew. I do believe

980
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:16,960
and know that the Bible is a historical book and

981
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:23,000
a covenant unto the children of Israel aka b Biblical Hebrews.

982
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:27,800
And so this this topic is certainly interested.

983
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a great Why would you believe any

984
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,880
of that? It's it's a ridiculous cult. I mean, it's

985
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,639
totally nonsensical. There's literally no reason to believe in this

986
00:53:34,679 --> 00:53:36,000
stupid thing. Why would you believe it?

987
00:53:37,199 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 3: What do you say?

988
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 18: Excuse me, I'm just confused when you say a ridiculous cult.

989
00:53:41,039 --> 00:53:44,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Black Keeper Israelie is the stupidest modern cult of

990
00:53:44,679 --> 00:53:47,360
all time. Like it's worse than even Mormons or anything.

991
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,480
It's the dumbest of all. Why would you believe that?

992
00:53:49,679 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 5: Oh?

993
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 18: Okay, Well that's your that is your theory that I

994
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,519
would certainly, uh, I would ask you to prove that.

995
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 5: First of all, it's a cult, because it's not a cult.

996
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 18: There are several different organizations who are congregations.

997
00:54:04,159 --> 00:54:05,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all cults.

998
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: How's that all of them? They're all culled?

999
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:09,679
Speaker 18: Okay, Okay, So you're just going to just say you're right,

1000
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,920
and because you make a statement and because you're.

1001
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:15,119
Speaker 1: No, I'm not. I'm saying it based on the debates

1002
00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:18,639
I've had with all the BHI debated, So.

1003
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,039
Speaker 18: Based upon what How is it a cult? How is

1004
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:24,840
it a cult? Not just because you say so, but

1005
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:25,639
how is it a cult?

1006
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: Well, because it's premised on a ridiculous interpretation of certain

1007
00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:32,519
verses to try to prove that Jesus was black. I mean,

1008
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:34,159
do you agree with those interpretations?

1009
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 5: How was he not black? How historically?

1010
00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 3: How how of Jesus Christ white?

1011
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 1: I didn't say he was well, that's a non sequord.

1012
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,239
I didn't say he was white because I said he's

1013
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:45,800
not black.

1014
00:54:46,639 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 18: Okay, so wait, so let's just deal with a couple

1015
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:49,239
of things.

1016
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: Do you think those verses that talks about him with

1017
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,039
hair like wool and all that proves that he was black?

1018
00:54:56,599 --> 00:54:57,159
Speaker 18: Absolutely?

1019
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,519
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying is super That's what I'm

1020
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:02,599
saying is super domb and low to your low IQ bullshit.

1021
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,159
Speaker 18: Oh well you know so, so again this is like

1022
00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:07,199
one of those I'm white because I'm white and I'm

1023
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:08,239
right because I say so.

1024
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying that it's it's all based on ignorance.

1025
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:12,880
You you brought in all the racial stuff, not me.

1026
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 5: I didn't anything.

1027
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:16,199
Speaker 2: You just said, you think you're white. Do you think

1028
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:17,079
you're right because you're white?

1029
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: I didn't say because you brought that in. That's because

1030
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,239
you got your emotional and you can't argue the facts.

1031
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,079
Speaker 5: I'm not emotional.

1032
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 2: You started with all this race stuff. I didn't say

1033
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,000
anything about race.

1034
00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 18: I didn't start with anything race.

1035
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:29,079
Speaker 2: You just did.

1036
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:32,039
Speaker 3: You said you think you're right because you because you No.

1037
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,119
Speaker 18: Okay, No, here's the funny thing. Now, let's just let's

1038
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,400
let's calm down, all right, because I'm not I'm not

1039
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:38,960
angry or anything like that.

1040
00:55:39,039 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 5: I didn't start with any race.

1041
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: So those verses have nothing to deal with Jesus being black.

1042
00:55:43,039 --> 00:55:45,079
Why do you think Why would you believe Jesus is black?

1043
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 18: Okay, So if you will allow me to answer those questions,

1044
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,000
and I could most scrutinly do that, all right. So

1045
00:55:51,199 --> 00:55:53,239
the person who started out with racial stuff, because you.

1046
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:59,159
Speaker 1: Be right, all right, that's just stupid.

1047
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

1048
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:01,800
blah blah blah.

1049
00:56:04,599 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 2: S breaking out long.

1050
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 1: Right, Jesus is black because it says he was. When

1051
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,679
it shows him glorified, it says his hair was like wool,

1052
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,679
because we all know wol means a black person.

1053
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 19: Yeahs, yes, So when you're like running tag into an atheists,

1054
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:31,800
how would you refuse someone who.

1055
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 3: Denies like the ontology of logic, like anti realism.

1056
00:56:36,559 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 1: Well, they could go that route, but I think I

1057
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,679
would just bring up the problems with that position, which

1058
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:43,199
I mean, or so, are do you think logic is

1059
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,960
in some way physical?

1060
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 13: Uh?

1061
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:49,639
Speaker 1: If you think logic is purely a token, then we

1062
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,039
don't know that it actually applies to anything in the world,

1063
00:56:52,159 --> 00:56:55,519
if there's no real relation between the symbols and the

1064
00:56:55,559 --> 00:56:58,239
actual external world. And usually those people just say, well,

1065
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,840
we just can't know, we don't know. Well, okay, but

1066
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,800
that's not a very good argument, just to say, well

1067
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,000
we just don't know. We can't know. So you can

1068
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,000
posit an anti realist position, But well, how does mathematics

1069
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:11,199
work in the world? Then to build bridges and to

1070
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,239
do all this stuff? How do we discover things like

1071
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,960
Mandelbrot sets, but which are obviously not uh, social constructs,

1072
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,400
they're actually discoveries. So I would say something like a

1073
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,679
mandel brought set refute that idea.

1074
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 3: All right, cool, appreciate it.

1075
00:57:26,679 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, look up Jason Lyles lecture on Mandelbrot sets, and

1076
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,239
I think that's a really good response to that.

1077
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 2: The type of a position.

1078
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:46,559
Speaker 13: Kenobi, Hey, Jenny, I need a coffee bat and she

1079
00:57:46,599 --> 00:57:47,119
can't hear me?

1080
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 2: Obi wan kenobi, I'm mute.

1081
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: You don't need to see identavigation. These are the arguments

1082
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,519
you're looking for.

1083
00:57:57,079 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: Move along, Move along.

1084
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 20: I'm an inquirer into orthodoxy, and there's I mean this.

1085
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,599
I think you've probably answered this before, but I couldn't

1086
00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:08,599
find anything on it. It's a question regarding the church,

1087
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,320
what was the explanation for like, obviously during the Only

1088
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,320
Church there were plenty of heretics and schismatics, and I

1089
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,280
think at some points they made up the lay person majority.

1090
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,199
But what is the explanation for why the counsels and

1091
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:26,440
the bishops have, like, for example, the better position of

1092
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:31,159
the spirit in discerning that when like the majority are

1093
00:58:31,199 --> 00:58:32,559
heretical or schismatic, for.

1094
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: Example, the majority of the laity or the bishops or

1095
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,199
what do you mean majority of.

1096
00:58:38,159 --> 00:58:39,519
Speaker 3: The laity for example?

1097
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:46,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the argument that bishops have more discernment than ladies?

1098
00:58:46,159 --> 00:58:47,679
Speaker 2: I was asking, I don't understand the question.

1099
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,199
Speaker 20: Yeah, because like for example, I think when during the

1100
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:53,960
airing crisis, I think it was the majority of them

1101
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,440
that were going towards that.

1102
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,599
Speaker 1: Was the majority of the bishops that were not laity.

1103
00:58:58,639 --> 00:58:59,960
I mean, I don't know how many of the laid

1104
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:02,800
you were Aran, but the majority of the bishops were semiarian.

1105
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 3: Right.

1106
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: Well, that's why truth is not determined by the majority.

1107
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,239
Truth is determined by the truth. So you can have

1108
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,760
a majority of the church be an error. Correct.

1109
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:18,639
Speaker 20: Then if if the Spirit is guiding the church, what

1110
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,000
is an extension of that situation as basic contract.

1111
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:23,519
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's still human free will, there's still

1112
00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:26,880
the reality of apostasy. And there's other cases where the

1113
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,159
majority or a large portion of the empire fell into

1114
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:34,679
heresy too, like the Iconic class controversy. So the promise

1115
00:59:34,719 --> 00:59:36,960
of the Spirit is not that all of the bishops

1116
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:41,360
in any era will be orthodox or will persevere. You

1117
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,880
can always apostatize. In fact, if you read Revelation one

1118
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:49,880
in two and three, there's warnings to those seven churches,

1119
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,719
for example, that they'll have their lamp stand ripped away

1120
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:56,639
and God will say I'm done with you. We believe

1121
00:59:56,719 --> 00:59:59,079
that the same thing happened to the Roman Church. God

1122
00:59:59,159 --> 01:00:02,079
warned the Roman Church in Romans eleven through Paul that

1123
01:00:02,159 --> 01:00:04,360
if you get haughty, you'll be cut out of the Covenant.

1124
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,079
We think they were cut out of the Covenant a

1125
01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:08,960
thousand years ago, and that's why they teach such ridiculous,

1126
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:16,000
retarded apostasy today, which all these lunatics still think is Christianity. So, yeah,

1127
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:18,440
you can have a majority. The promise of the Spirit

1128
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,719
was not that there would always be a majority. It's

1129
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,440
just simply that there will always be faithful bishops.

1130
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,159
Speaker 3: Glad, thank you.

1131
01:00:27,199 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1132
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,039
Speaker 1: Truth is not determined by a majority, and that's precisely

1133
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:33,440
why all the idiotic Roman Catholic arguments about numbers doesn't

1134
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,360
prove anything numbers.

1135
01:00:35,360 --> 01:01:07,119
Speaker 2: Bro Steger curlts unmute, unmute yeoh uh huh.

1136
01:01:06,519 --> 01:01:09,039
Speaker 3: I I just wanted to ask you a quick question.

1137
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:16,239
Speaker 21: So I heard a lot of times about this, this

1138
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,400
saying about if God can break the laws of logic.

1139
01:01:20,559 --> 01:01:22,960
I need to understand that, and I don't know if

1140
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,599
that can be a contradiction itself as an argument. I

1141
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:28,079
don't think it's an argument itself. So I just wanted

1142
01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:28,760
to ask about it.

1143
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: I think the laws of logic are features that describe

1144
01:01:34,679 --> 01:01:37,920
the created order. So logic is something that pertains to

1145
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,079
the created order, kind of like math. So there are

1146
01:01:41,079 --> 01:01:45,000
reflections of principles in the divine mind. They're not things

1147
01:01:45,039 --> 01:01:48,159
that determine God's essence or nature. So we don't sit

1148
01:01:48,199 --> 01:01:51,519
there and say God is you know, subservient to or

1149
01:01:51,639 --> 01:01:54,440
under the laws of logic. Rather it's the other way around.

1150
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,760
That God exists that becomes the grounding for the laws

1151
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,320
of logic. So a lot of people want to put

1152
01:01:59,679 --> 01:02:02,960
the before the horse, and they put the thing that

1153
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:06,719
is grounded in God before God and make God submit

1154
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,000
to that. That's what you see in a lot of

1155
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:12,280
Roman Catholic argumentation about the divine simplicity or the energies

1156
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,119
or any of that kind of stuff. So we just

1157
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:15,880
we have it's the other way around.

1158
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,639
Speaker 21: So you'd like view it as basically a part of

1159
01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:24,320
the nature of God or something like.

1160
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: That, or no, it's a reflection.

1161
01:02:26,039 --> 01:02:26,159
Speaker 2: Uh.

1162
01:02:26,639 --> 01:02:30,559
Speaker 1: So logic is a feature of the created order that

1163
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:34,159
is based on the uncreated logi in the mind of God.

1164
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,559
So there's a logie for every principle of logic or

1165
01:02:37,639 --> 01:02:39,639
number or whatever that exists in the mind of God,

1166
01:02:40,119 --> 01:02:43,800
but they're not identical. The low gi are uncreated, but

1167
01:02:44,199 --> 01:02:47,159
logic and these kinds of things are creatures and they're created.

1168
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:51,000
That's what Maximus says, that universals can perish. That's not

1169
01:02:51,039 --> 01:02:54,719
the platonic position played us as universals are the monad,

1170
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,519
they are the one. So it's a different it's a

1171
01:02:57,599 --> 01:03:00,960
non platonic position impossibility.

1172
01:03:01,199 --> 01:03:02,559
Speaker 3: It doesn't actually.

1173
01:03:04,519 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 21: So itself asking that's just self contradict itself, right.

1174
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,119
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's kind of a nonsense question. Like, for example,

1175
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,880
if you know what Aristotilians argue or Roman Catholics and

1176
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,559
Thomas argue, if you think about the the LPT, the

1177
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:25,320
logical problem of the Trinity. When Muslims and Jake and

1178
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,800
people like that use the LPT, they're trying to take

1179
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:34,360
a principled analytic philosophy or logic or predication and then

1180
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,519
say that the Christian view violates logic and therefore it's

1181
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:43,719
not true. But it's not understanding that you can't smash

1182
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:48,119
God into one type of naming or one type of

1183
01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:52,840
descriptor or one type of modern analytical philosophy, because that's

1184
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:54,760
not the type of being that God is.

1185
01:03:56,239 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 3: So itself.

1186
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 21: He will have a like another divine level that we

1187
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:02,519
can encumbrehend him.

1188
01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 3: We're trying to bound at the well.

1189
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, Uh, logic and math are like

1190
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:15,000
one of the divine rays that comes from the divine

1191
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,239
mind to us. God has many other things about him

1192
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,159
right that they don't exhaust him and they don't define him.

1193
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,440
It's sort of like if if you saw me over

1194
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,519
here working out math problems, would you think that math

1195
01:04:28,599 --> 01:04:31,599
problems are my essence? No, they would be something that

1196
01:04:31,679 --> 01:04:34,559
is sort of coming out of me or coming from me,

1197
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:38,719
proceeding from me. So in the same way, God shows

1198
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,039
us things about himself through principles of math and geometry

1199
01:04:42,119 --> 01:04:44,400
and order and all that we learn about the harmony

1200
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,400
of the divine mind and the beauty of the divine

1201
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,840
mind and order and all that. But they don't exhaust

1202
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:54,280
him or define him. Okay, So if you read Dionysius,

1203
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,519
this is the way he speaks of the things that

1204
01:04:56,559 --> 01:05:00,360
come from God, the raised, the emanations, the process. I

1205
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,400
should say not emanations, Okay.

1206
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 21: From when I'm getting from Muslis, is that the question itself.

1207
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 3: Is wrong just to ask it? Is that what you're

1208
01:05:09,079 --> 01:05:09,400
trying to.

1209
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: Say, Yeah, I mean you could argue that the question

1210
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:18,199
is premised on the idea that God is somehow definable

1211
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,079
or exhaustible by created principles.

1212
01:05:21,599 --> 01:05:23,679
Speaker 21: Yeah, since they said the mind being, he cannot be

1213
01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:27,000
defined by limited minds, and he's unlimited, so he's not

1214
01:05:27,079 --> 01:05:29,880
bound by by logic itself he.

1215
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: Is, it would be violating the apathetic theology of Orthodoxy. Right, So,

1216
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,639
Apathatic theology holds that God in himself, in his essence,

1217
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:43,239
is unapproachable, unknowable, undefinable, and inexhaustible. It's the via negativa.

1218
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,320
But the way that we know him is by the

1219
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,480
energies that come down to us, as Basil says in

1220
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:49,159
two thirty four.

1221
01:05:50,519 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 21: Okay, so I mean, could he manipulate itself? I mean,

1222
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:55,960
he's an all powerful being.

1223
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna move on. No, he doesn't manipulate

1224
01:05:58,519 --> 01:06:02,199
himself because he is a being with free will and

1225
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:05,960
in nature that defines who he is and how he acts.

1226
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:09,800
So God can't change his nature because that would be

1227
01:06:10,519 --> 01:06:14,239
ultimately going against who he himself is. So, for example,

1228
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:17,320
when Paul says it's impossible for God to lie, Paul

1229
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,440
says that because God's nature and character is holy. He

1230
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,519
can't do evil or bad things, and so what we

1231
01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:26,719
consider possible or impossible is going to be determined by

1232
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,519
our worldview. So a lot of times low tier atheists

1233
01:06:29,519 --> 01:06:33,480
will say, well, to be omnipotent means you can literally

1234
01:06:33,519 --> 01:06:35,920
do anything, and if you can't make yourself not exist,

1235
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,119
then you're not omnipotent. Well, that's not what omnipotent means

1236
01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:41,599
in the Christian paradigm. And all of these words and

1237
01:06:41,679 --> 01:06:45,000
terms are going to be determined by the paradigm from

1238
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:55,480
which they're situated. Vertical view. Hey, Jamie, she's always far

1239
01:06:55,480 --> 01:07:00,079
into the house. You can hear me, I mean, yes.

1240
01:07:01,519 --> 01:07:01,679
Speaker 3: Here.

1241
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:06,239
Speaker 2: What's up?

1242
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 22: Man?

1243
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,639
Speaker 1: Are you calling me from World War two battlefield?

1244
01:07:09,239 --> 01:07:17,119
Speaker 2: What's up the Allies? Allies of it?

1245
01:07:18,079 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: I can't hear anything you're saying. Call back again, Try again, David.

1246
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:28,159
Speaker 2: Do call me from D Day?

1247
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 3: Oh?

1248
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: Another dude calling me from D Day? What's up?

1249
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 2: Man? Have the Allies landed? What's up here?

1250
01:07:40,519 --> 01:07:41,519
Speaker 7: We know what's up?

1251
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 11: Okay.

1252
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 22: So I had a question about the nature of the

1253
01:07:46,039 --> 01:07:51,159
Orthodox normatic authority that I curious speak about a lot, Okay,

1254
01:07:52,039 --> 01:07:55,159
I just wanted to ask how you ended up at

1255
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:58,679
the conclusion that Eastern the Eastern Orthodox Church is the

1256
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:03,119
historic ordattorial that we should all be bound to, and.

1257
01:08:03,159 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: By looking at the first thousand years, by looking at

1258
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,480
the first thousand years of Christianity and seeing which church

1259
01:08:08,639 --> 01:08:12,159
matches up to the Church of the first thousand years.

1260
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 22: But doesn't that just end up at being your personal

1261
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:18,720
interpretation of how that?

1262
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: No, that's a that's a category error. So the fact

1263
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,479
that I came to this conclusion does not mean that

1264
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,199
the conclusion is purely subjective. So that's the mistake that

1265
01:08:27,239 --> 01:08:28,399
the first guy they called inmate.

1266
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:33,159
Speaker 2: The fact that we have.

1267
01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:37,159
Speaker 1: Interpretations does not mean that everything is a subjective interpretation.

1268
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:38,319
That's a non sequitor.

1269
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 5: Okay, So yeah, I agree with that.

1270
01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:46,079
Speaker 22: Then I found figured out the mistake of the first guy.

1271
01:08:46,119 --> 01:08:48,800
But that's not longer trying to say, hold, I'm trying to.

1272
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:51,119
Speaker 1: Well, that is what you're saying, though you said that,

1273
01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:54,000
you said that if I come to the conclusion that

1274
01:08:54,039 --> 01:08:56,920
the Church of the first thousand years is the Orthodox Church,

1275
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,279
then that's just my interpretation. Everybody has their interpretation, But

1276
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:03,840
that doesn't mean that the interpretations are purely subjective.

1277
01:09:04,159 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 22: I mean, no, I'm not saying that I'm just saying that,

1278
01:09:08,119 --> 01:09:09,680
is it there a chance that you could be wrong?

1279
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,359
Speaker 1: There is a chance, but that's not what normative authority is.

1280
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:17,640
So you're confusing normative authority with existential certitude. Those are

1281
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:20,960
two different things. Normative authority means is there any body

1282
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,359
of people who have the authority to bind people to

1283
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:26,159
an interpretation. That's not the same thing as how do

1284
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:29,840
we have individual epistemic certitude about a question? Those are

1285
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,560
two different things, and that's why I'm always making this point.

1286
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:34,680
I'm not fussing at you, but a lot of times

1287
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,840
Roman Catholics, for example, confuse these two things and they

1288
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,880
act like the papacy functions somehow as an epistemic principle

1289
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:42,520
when it doesn't.

1290
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 22: No, I would say that the same objection that I'm

1291
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:48,920
trying to make would apply to a Roman Catholic as well.

1292
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, but that's not an objection. That's just

1293
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:57,239
a statement of what the boat that everybody's in. Everybody's

1294
01:09:57,279 --> 01:10:00,520
in the boat of You're gonna have to figure this

1295
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:02,880
out at an individual level. There's no way out of

1296
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,600
that boat. Even a Roman Catholic has to try to

1297
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,119
figure out, well, which papal documents do I follow which

1298
01:10:09,119 --> 01:10:10,640
ones are the ones that are infallible?

1299
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 2: Which?

1300
01:10:11,119 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: What do I do with Vatican two? What do I

1301
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,239
do with Francis changing the death penalty? I mean, you

1302
01:10:15,279 --> 01:10:17,239
don't escape this in any of these systems.

1303
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 22: Yeah, I am aware that, but I'm not a Roman Catholic.

1304
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,720
I'm a Lutheran, if that makes any difference. But I'm

1305
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,439
just saying that because I've heard you say on debate

1306
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,800
with more evangelical for the stunts that it owens up

1307
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:32,119
at once personal interpretational discription.

1308
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. That's that's the normative question.

1309
01:10:35,039 --> 01:10:37,199
That has nothing to do with So your your argument

1310
01:10:37,239 --> 01:10:40,920
is confusing existential certitude with normative authority. They're two totally

1311
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:46,119
different things. Okay, do you understand why they're two different questions?

1312
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,279
The argument against the Protestant is that Jesus didn't provide

1313
01:10:51,279 --> 01:10:54,079
the Church a historical body of people that can bind

1314
01:10:54,119 --> 01:11:00,000
anyone to an interpretation that's normative authority. Why wouldn't Jesus

1315
01:11:00,119 --> 01:11:00,640
provide that?

1316
01:11:05,159 --> 01:11:07,560
Speaker 11: Okay, so I got the confusion.

1317
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 22: I'm going to look into them more.

1318
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,359
Speaker 1: That's fine, that's okay, But that's the question that I

1319
01:11:11,359 --> 01:11:13,640
would say to a Lutheran or to a Protestant is

1320
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,560
did Jesus not foresee that there would.

1321
01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: Be squabbles and disputes in the church?

1322
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: And he didn't give anybody any authority to bind anybody

1323
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,520
to an interpretation. So it's just up to everybody. It's

1324
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,880
you know, di y, good luck, dude, And then every

1325
01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:35,119
generation has to reinvent the wheel and rehash and restudy

1326
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:39,600
and prove every controversy, even though like obviously the controversy

1327
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,680
of the Trinity is already settled, right, but if you're

1328
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,479
a Protestant, maybe not. Let's just let's start all over.

1329
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,079
Let's do it all over, because all the councils are wrong.

1330
01:11:47,159 --> 01:11:57,960
They can all be wrong, Tudor. The QR code is

1331
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,840
to uh support me via bit coin, So this is

1332
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:05,840
a bitcoin while at QR code. For those that are asking, well, hello,

1333
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:07,920
Christi's reason indeed, what's up?

1334
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:09,199
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1335
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 11: I have a small question.

1336
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,319
Speaker 23: Basically I read them and I watched most of the

1337
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:17,439
stuff in the videos from YouTube and also on your

1338
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,119
website about the translation argument, it's a very orthodox and

1339
01:12:21,159 --> 01:12:24,800
traditional way of basically presenting the arguments for the existence

1340
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:29,039
of God. I would be curious about basically, like when

1341
01:12:29,079 --> 01:12:31,239
you have a tresidential argument, we reach the point where

1342
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:33,840
it basically we can prove that there's no logic outside

1343
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,279
of basically like also of God and outside of revelation.

1344
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:40,720
Now you still have like those old arguments that do

1345
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,680
not work that well, like the like the contingency argument.

1346
01:12:44,359 --> 01:12:47,520
It's pretty much like it's a bunch of arguments from

1347
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,279
the old philosophy that will not really work that well

1348
01:12:50,279 --> 01:12:52,800
because it will generally prove like a generic god essen

1349
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,479
or like energies.

1350
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:55,199
Speaker 2: Well.

1351
01:12:55,239 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: They also they also don't address modern philosophical critiques, posts

1352
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,800
and Lightenment. So if you were to go debate any

1353
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:07,359
you know, smart atheist like Graham Api or somebody like that,

1354
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,880
and you start arguing from contingency and all these metaphysical

1355
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,039
baggage principles, they're just going to say, well, how do

1356
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:15,079
you know any of those metaphysical principles or the are

1357
01:13:15,119 --> 01:13:19,960
the case? So they are not addressing the last five

1358
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,039
hundred years of philosophical argumentation. That's another reason why they're

1359
01:13:23,039 --> 01:13:23,880
not very good.

1360
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,399
Speaker 23: Yes, and indeed I'm not basically thinking about all that.

1361
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,119
This is like the main question I wanted to ask,

1362
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:33,840
Can there be basically be like a new transcendental version

1363
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,439
of like the contingency argument.

1364
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, you probably could.

1365
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could probably make a transcendental argument for any

1366
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:46,600
of those classical because the things that classical apologetics uses

1367
01:13:47,279 --> 01:13:52,199
are usually necessary metaphysical principles. So you can take that

1368
01:13:52,279 --> 01:13:55,920
metaphysical principle that's pretty much necessary to a worldview and

1369
01:13:55,960 --> 01:14:00,760
make it a kind of transcendental argument. I'm not I

1370
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,800
haven't thought about the contingency one specifically, but you could

1371
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:07,199
do it with the causal argument or the teleological argument

1372
01:14:07,239 --> 01:14:09,039
for sure, But I'm sure you could probably come up

1373
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:14,920
with some way to make necessity and contingency somehow part

1374
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:15,880
of a tag argument.

1375
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:19,079
Speaker 23: Yeah, so that will be a lot more interesting because

1376
01:14:19,119 --> 01:14:21,800
now that this will be basically not to rely on.

1377
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 11: Like self evidence and things like that.

1378
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 23: That basically are nonsense in modern.

1379
01:14:26,119 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 3: Philosophy, right because anything is still related.

1380
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah exactly.

1381
01:14:32,399 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 23: Oh yeah, so that will be like a good word

1382
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,680
for like modern philosophy and for us sorts of excretions

1383
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,239
to basically like I think we if we can even

1384
01:14:39,319 --> 01:14:42,600
like recycle these arguments for a more like a complete

1385
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,319
description or should we not really do that?

1386
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:49,600
Speaker 1: No, I think there's all kinds of open avenues for

1387
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,920
people to do work in transient arguments.

1388
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, thanks a lot for Christi's reason.

1389
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 13: Indeed, thank you good questions. Appreciate that.

1390
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:07,199
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about the contingency necessity principles. But I

1391
01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:13,399
imagine you could somehow argue that you know there must

1392
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:18,359
be some necessary things, and that if you deny that

1393
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,560
there are some necessary existent things, you would be led

1394
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:25,720
into some kind of reductio and knowledge will become impossible.

1395
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:27,439
I'm sure there's some way to construct that kind of

1396
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:29,479
an argument vertical view.

1397
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,399
Speaker 5: Yes, can you hear me?

1398
01:15:46,359 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 24: So I'm currently trying to convert to Orthodoxy, and I

1399
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:01,560
have a family of four and we're all Protestant, and

1400
01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:05,439
I'm kind of fully invested at the moment in helping

1401
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:10,159
build a church. It's a reforming Baptist church, and I

1402
01:16:10,199 --> 01:16:12,880
really this is more like personal advice. I really don't

1403
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:14,600
know how to like pull all of them out of

1404
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,560
that and then put them into an Orthodox church, at

1405
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,960
least not in a way that's not harmful.

1406
01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:24,359
Speaker 2: Well, how would it be harmful?

1407
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:25,199
Speaker 3: What do you mean?

1408
01:16:26,399 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 24: Well, I mean, because I had, I would have to

1409
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:32,479
convince them in the same way that I've been convinced,

1410
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,479
and I think it would be a very uh I

1411
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:37,880
don't want it to be abrupt, you know what I mean, like, Okay.

1412
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 1: We're well maybe yeah, maybe the right thing to do

1413
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,199
is to ease them into it. I mean, you know

1414
01:16:42,279 --> 01:16:46,800
your family obviously better than anyone else, so you know,

1415
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:48,920
maybe maybe you need to try to ease them into it.

1416
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:54,520
I don't know, I don't know what the wise course

1417
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,079
of action is there. I mean, is your is your wife,

1418
01:16:57,319 --> 01:17:00,960
Like I mean, I would first of all worry about her,

1419
01:17:01,239 --> 01:17:03,880
because she's going to have a lot of influence, you know,

1420
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:08,840
over your kids and you so would you do you

1421
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:10,560
do you think she would be receptive or do you

1422
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,600
think she's like very antithetical to something like that.

1423
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,359
Speaker 24: Well, I think, well we've already kind of talked about it.

1424
01:17:17,399 --> 01:17:19,720
In her main question, which I really didn't have an

1425
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,600
answer to, is she was like, well, don't aren't we

1426
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:24,640
already and dwelt with the Holy Spirit?

1427
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:26,039
Speaker 3: Haven't we been baptized?

1428
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 24: And you know, I don't really have an answer to

1429
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:37,239
tell her like well, look, yeah, no, well.

1430
01:17:35,039 --> 01:17:39,359
Speaker 1: Well, I mean God, in his grace works in people everywhere,

1431
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,640
and the Holy Spirit is everywhere. But you know, if

1432
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,560
we're faced with these questions of what the true church is.

1433
01:17:47,239 --> 01:17:53,079
I wouldn't rest my decision on, you know, some subjective

1434
01:17:53,119 --> 01:17:55,520
event in the past, like well, you know I did,

1435
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:57,359
you know. I mean, it'd be like thinking, well, I

1436
01:17:57,399 --> 01:17:59,279
said the Sinner's Prayer when I was ten and I

1437
01:17:59,319 --> 01:18:01,840
felt good about it, so you know, I don't need

1438
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:03,920
to become a reform Baptist. But I mean, imagine I'm

1439
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:08,000
applying that logic to going from Baptist to reform Baptists. Right, Well,

1440
01:18:08,039 --> 01:18:09,359
I mean, why do I need to go to reform

1441
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:11,920
Batist church because you know, I prayed and I felt

1442
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:13,800
the center, you know, the Holy Spirit when I prayed

1443
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:15,680
the Center's prayer when I was ten. Well, you would

1444
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:17,560
argue that, well, but that doesn't mean that, you know,

1445
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:22,119
God's not calling you to you know, something more consistent

1446
01:18:22,319 --> 01:18:26,039
or to a closer, you know, level of relationship. And

1447
01:18:26,119 --> 01:18:29,319
so just apply that same argument now, well you know

1448
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:29,720
what I mean?

1449
01:18:31,279 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 24: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I yeah, I get what you're saying.

1450
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:38,439
I'm good, I guess from I guess her advantage points,

1451
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,520
she's going to be she's going to be turned that

1452
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,399
I'm that I'm losing my mind or something. But I've

1453
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:45,880
I've been really fully convinced in the last you know,

1454
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,560
six months or so, and I've kind of warmed her

1455
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,920
up to the idea. But I think that she in

1456
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:54,520
her mind, she's like she thinking, well, I've seen the

1457
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:59,680
fruit in our lives and our children's lives. Why does

1458
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:01,960
why is something need to change?

1459
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: Well?

1460
01:19:04,279 --> 01:19:09,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a tough, tough point because on

1461
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:13,880
the one hand, we can't definitively say well, you never

1462
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,119
had the Holy Spirit. But at the same time, it's like, well,

1463
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:18,279
how do you could phrase it like this, Well, maybe

1464
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:21,319
the Holy Spirit's leading you to orthodoxy, Like you know

1465
01:19:21,359 --> 01:19:23,800
what I mean, Like, maybe maybe that's the next phase

1466
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,760
of your relationship with God. He wants them more intimate relationship,

1467
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:32,720
and maybe that's where orthodoxy is. So, I know, it's

1468
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,920
difficult with women because they're usually based it's usually based

1469
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:39,640
on feelings, and it's based on subjective experience, and it's

1470
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:44,199
not typically based on objective facts and argumentation and reason

1471
01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:47,159
and logic and history. But I think ultimately the only

1472
01:19:47,159 --> 01:19:49,840
way to be sure of these things is to get

1473
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,720
people into the actual history and the actual teaching. So,

1474
01:19:54,039 --> 01:19:56,680
you know, can you get her into you know, looking

1475
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:57,359
at the issues.

1476
01:19:59,199 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 5: I think that I can't.

1477
01:20:00,119 --> 01:20:03,159
Speaker 24: And I've already already kind of got her to accept

1478
01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:05,279
the fact that the argument you were just making a

1479
01:20:05,279 --> 01:20:11,199
previous conversation about how you know Christ would Christ would

1480
01:20:11,359 --> 01:20:15,920
preemptively know that these types of squabbles and disputes would happen,

1481
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:19,159
and that he would want some authority, and she but

1482
01:20:19,279 --> 01:20:19,840
she believes that.

1483
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 3: I think. Think of the point now, it's just like.

1484
01:20:22,359 --> 01:20:26,119
Speaker 5: We're like, because we were currently playing the church.

1485
01:20:26,359 --> 01:20:29,600
Speaker 1: I understand. I mean, you know, you just maybe God's

1486
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,239
testing you about whether this church planning thing is an idol,

1487
01:20:32,279 --> 01:20:36,399
you know what I mean, Like maybe maybe if it's

1488
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:38,000
not the right church, you don't want to plant that.

1489
01:20:38,039 --> 01:20:39,119
I mean, do you want to plant a bunch of

1490
01:20:39,119 --> 01:20:40,840
weeds in the garden or do you want to plant, like,

1491
01:20:41,119 --> 01:20:47,119
you know, real tomatoes in the garden. Yeah, I would agree,

1492
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:50,800
Yeah you could also I would say too, like, you know,

1493
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,079
you're the head of your household. You know your family's

1494
01:20:53,079 --> 01:20:56,199
gonna follow your decision, So I would say, go ahead

1495
01:20:56,199 --> 01:20:58,560
and do that. You could also talk to your Orthodox

1496
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:01,319
priests and you know, get his take on it, because

1497
01:21:02,159 --> 01:21:04,079
he's probably deal He's dealt with this a lot more

1498
01:21:04,119 --> 01:21:04,439
than I have.

1499
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 13: I'm sure Garrett.

1500
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:18,399
Speaker 2: Are you there?

1501
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: DC would working three dollars. Thank you so much. You

1502
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,640
failed three dollars. Oh, I failed so much. He sent

1503
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:28,199
me three dollars. Kamala goom gang five dollars, thank you,

1504
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:33,880
ball Cap, Jay is back, Mercedes Benz gag yeah baby, Anonymous,

1505
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,119
three dollars. I just want to Actually, the reason I

1506
01:21:36,119 --> 01:21:38,000
have this hat on is because I was supposed to

1507
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:41,279
wake up early for a Burmus interview and I didn't

1508
01:21:41,279 --> 01:21:42,600
have time to comb my Harris, so I just do

1509
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:43,199
this hat on.

1510
01:21:43,279 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: But then we didn't end up having an interview.

1511
01:21:46,079 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 1: Anonymous, thank you for helping me through a lot of

1512
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,079
my doubts about orthodoxy.

1513
01:21:51,159 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 13: I feel a lot more confident, glorid God.

1514
01:21:53,319 --> 01:21:54,560
Speaker 2: That's great man, glad to hear that.

1515
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 1: Are you there man?

1516
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:56,520
Speaker 2: What's up.

1517
01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 13: Anthony?

1518
01:22:18,399 --> 01:22:20,640
Speaker 1: Anthony or either yeah right here?

1519
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't I'm doing well. So yeah.

1520
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 25: So I've been part of the Church of Christ probably

1521
01:22:30,039 --> 01:22:34,079
since it's been twenty fifteen, and I've always had a

1522
01:22:34,079 --> 01:22:40,239
little bit of I don't know, things are qualms with

1523
01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:43,760
with the church, but not like it. It was like

1524
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:48,680
little things that just popped up recently where I was

1525
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,760
I had, like a good friend as a Lutheran, and

1526
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:56,199
he started talking about infant baptism with me, and and

1527
01:22:57,199 --> 01:22:59,640
Church of Christ is not you know, they don't believe

1528
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:01,520
that or anything like that. So I didn't like the

1529
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,000
way I reacted towards him about it, right, and uh

1530
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:08,119
so it got me. So I was asking him and

1531
01:23:08,199 --> 01:23:12,199
questioning about it. And then he says that, you know,

1532
01:23:12,239 --> 01:23:14,079
he couldn't find it in the Bible or something like that,

1533
01:23:14,079 --> 01:23:16,560
because in my mind, I'm jumping right to you know,

1534
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,840
Bible alone, and that's what we believe there. And so

1535
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:22,800
so I went in and I asked him questions like,

1536
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,920
you know, how how early you know, did infant baptism

1537
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:27,960
happen and all that kind of stuff. But so I

1538
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,600
went looking into it and that just kind of just

1539
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,000
took me down a road where I did not expect

1540
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:36,399
a lot of things because.

1541
01:23:36,119 --> 01:23:38,199
Speaker 3: What what what what I used to what we used

1542
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:38,439
to do?

1543
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:42,039
Speaker 25: I mean, like whenever anything was brought up about baptism,

1544
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:45,039
because I think that that's pretty much what the Church

1545
01:23:45,079 --> 01:23:46,319
of Christ kind.

1546
01:23:46,119 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 2: Of yeah, separate themselves, right.

1547
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,199
Speaker 25: He's like that they believe in baptismal regeneration. Okay, Well,

1548
01:23:52,279 --> 01:23:53,920
let's just go to the church fathers, let's go to

1549
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:55,720
the early church. Let's go what did they say? What

1550
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:58,319
did they do? And so I had to look at

1551
01:23:58,319 --> 01:24:00,119
that and I had to see where I went to

1552
01:24:00,199 --> 01:24:03,239
him and I said, you're right, like there is evidence

1553
01:24:03,399 --> 01:24:06,000
about this. And then that took me down a whole

1554
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,680
other rabbit hole about sol the scripture. And I didn't

1555
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:09,960
even really kind of think about that.

1556
01:24:10,199 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 1: And they also all believe in the real presence in

1557
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:13,560
the Eucharist too, which you don't.

1558
01:24:14,199 --> 01:24:15,319
Speaker 2: Church christ don't believe.

1559
01:24:15,159 --> 01:24:21,039
Speaker 25: So, right, So so I know that, you know, you

1560
01:24:21,079 --> 01:24:23,399
know Lutheran's I think about Martin Luther, and I've always

1561
01:24:23,399 --> 01:24:25,560
had a problem. I mean, we Church of Christ, they

1562
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:28,439
have problems with Martin Luther. Okay, so this is the

1563
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:31,880
long story. Short is that I again, so looking into

1564
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:36,680
infant baptism. Looking into that kind of led me into

1565
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:42,239
what else the it was the intercession of the saints.

1566
01:24:42,279 --> 01:24:48,520
It led me into uh, yeah, the communion. I remember

1567
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:52,319
I was I someone asked me to, well, the minister

1568
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:54,640
or whatever we call them in Church Christ I still

1569
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:58,520
don't know, asked me to do communion. And I went

1570
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,760
into this like weak, long deep dive into it. And

1571
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:03,640
then I just found all these other little things that

1572
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:05,560
I wanted to discussed or something like that about it.

1573
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,079
So I just got this really deep understanding about communion

1574
01:25:09,159 --> 01:25:12,600
and and studying about it and then studying about more

1575
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,520
about prayer just because a lot of different things happening

1576
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,520
in my life. And so now I've just gone down

1577
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:24,640
this complete different road where I'm completely open now to you.

1578
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:26,520
Speaker 1: Know, I have the same thing, the same thing happened

1579
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:27,359
to me in two thousand and three.

1580
01:25:27,359 --> 01:25:28,560
Speaker 2: I totally understand.

1581
01:25:29,119 --> 01:25:32,239
Speaker 25: So yeah, so where I'm at right now is I'm

1582
01:25:32,239 --> 01:25:36,079
going to the people in the church. And uh, we

1583
01:25:36,239 --> 01:25:38,479
just we just my wife and I. I have wife

1584
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:40,880
and two kids, and we just moved here to Arkansas.

1585
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:43,079
It's been about two years or so, and I've been

1586
01:25:43,079 --> 01:25:47,199
a part of the Church of Christ here and and

1587
01:25:47,319 --> 01:25:50,399
uh and uh.

1588
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 7: Sorry, I'm just.

1589
01:25:52,319 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 3: What is it.

1590
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,279
Speaker 25: Been looking into this? And I didn't like that it

1591
01:25:57,319 --> 01:25:59,439
started out. I didn't like the way I reacted, like

1592
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,319
I'm like, why why am I so like it's it

1593
01:26:03,359 --> 01:26:06,399
seems to be like that reaction you're kind of given,

1594
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:08,840
like you're you're sort of taught that to be so

1595
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:14,680
anti Catholic or so anti Orthodox, you're so not even

1596
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:18,640
wanting to hear anything out and like they just you know,

1597
01:26:19,199 --> 01:26:21,760
we have like certain writers in the Church of Christ

1598
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:24,680
where you know, they look up you know, it's Bible alone,

1599
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:25,600
like that's the whole thing.

1600
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,159
Speaker 11: But then I remember, I remember.

1601
01:26:28,079 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 25: In the last couple of years, like when my one

1602
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:32,600
of my friends was going through a divorce and they

1603
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:35,600
kind of went outside the Bible to explain certain things.

1604
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:40,760
Because there's no definite position that any Protestant Evangelical, they

1605
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:42,479
don't take a position on it or anything.

1606
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:43,720
Speaker 3: It's kind of all over the place.

1607
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,119
Speaker 25: So that was kind of strange to me that I

1608
01:26:47,319 --> 01:26:50,039
that we weren't like I thought it was Bible alone,

1609
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,880
you know, so and that was always strange to me

1610
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:54,800
about that. So anyways, all these other things that just

1611
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:59,359
came up are now are now I'm questioning and I'm

1612
01:26:59,359 --> 01:27:01,239
bringing it to people, and no one could give me

1613
01:27:01,279 --> 01:27:02,159
an answer for it.

1614
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:04,319
Speaker 7: And and so.

1615
01:27:04,319 --> 01:27:06,840
Speaker 25: One of the things that just came up was I

1616
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:10,520
guess just like suggestions about things to kind of get

1617
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:13,520
me started. I'm very I'm like, in the beginning of this,

1618
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:18,399
I had a my wife had a yard sale, and

1619
01:27:18,399 --> 01:27:21,079
a guy from an Orthodox church that's nearby.

1620
01:27:22,119 --> 01:27:23,079
Speaker 7: We talked a little bit.

1621
01:27:23,319 --> 01:27:25,600
Speaker 25: And this was kind of before I was just like

1622
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:27,399
right at the beginning where I was just being open

1623
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:27,920
to it.

1624
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:30,760
Speaker 7: And uh and uh.

1625
01:27:31,319 --> 01:27:34,279
Speaker 25: Then he he came like he left an icon of

1626
01:27:34,279 --> 01:27:38,560
a Jesus on my car window or my mailbox and

1627
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:40,960
he wrote down his number and you know said, you know,

1628
01:27:41,239 --> 01:27:43,479
thought that he had to he felt compelled to like

1629
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:45,800
reach out to me. And now I've been it's been

1630
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:47,439
about a few months, and I hadn't really kind of

1631
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:49,439
get together with him. And now since I've deep dive

1632
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:51,600
into all this stuff, reading all these different things, all

1633
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:56,159
my arguments about whether or not we have a normative

1634
01:27:56,199 --> 01:27:58,119
authority you know in the church, like where you know,

1635
01:27:58,319 --> 01:28:00,800
like we have things like that, all these different things

1636
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:04,479
are just breaking down. Now now I'm just completely I'm unsettled,

1637
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:06,520
That's what I'm trying to say, and I don't know

1638
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,800
what to kind of like I'm trying to get like

1639
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:13,880
a really good structure of the church history. I'm going

1640
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,840
to be bringing this to people just to because it

1641
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,399
seems like I'm gonna easing out of the Church Christ

1642
01:28:19,399 --> 01:28:21,199
and taking my family like the guy in the Last

1643
01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:22,239
Caller where he didn't know what.

1644
01:28:22,199 --> 01:28:25,079
Speaker 2: To do right, Well, yeah, so I would say start with.

1645
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 1: Something like John Mayandor's book The Orthodox Church. Then I

1646
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:35,680
would read something like Yaroslav Pelicon's volume one of his

1647
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:39,199
five volume series, the first one about the emergence of

1648
01:28:39,199 --> 01:28:43,239
the Catholic tradition, because it's just written as an overview

1649
01:28:43,319 --> 01:28:47,199
of the first five centuries of the Church. So those

1650
01:28:47,199 --> 01:28:49,319
two books, they're not too hard to read, would be

1651
01:28:49,359 --> 01:28:53,279
good for you as a Protestant to give you an

1652
01:28:53,319 --> 01:28:56,439
idea of the ideological trek of the early Church and

1653
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:59,840
the history of the Church and the basic theology. And

1654
01:29:00,119 --> 01:29:03,560
I would move on to something a little more, you know,

1655
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,680
something like athanacious Is on the Incarnation or something like that.

1656
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:11,000
Those are good places to go. Also, doctor Clark Carlton,

1657
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:16,439
you could look up his book about Protestant Positions versus

1658
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,880
Orthodox if you want something that's a little more polemical

1659
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:22,279
and apologetic. So those are places to start. And then yeah,

1660
01:29:22,319 --> 01:29:26,239
continue talking to your Orthodox friend, all right, actully, thank

1661
01:29:26,279 --> 01:29:29,600
you man, Yeah, thank you. Glad to hear your you're

1662
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,199
on that quest. I had this similar thing happened to

1663
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:36,399
me when I was twenty one or two, and I

1664
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,159
started reading The Church Fathers and realizing Oh, wait a minute,

1665
01:29:39,199 --> 01:29:40,039
they're not Calvinists.

1666
01:29:40,119 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 13: Uh oh, I started freaking out.

1667
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 1: So good news is, though, you can avoid the ten

1668
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:51,000
years of Roman Catholic madness that I went into, and

1669
01:29:51,039 --> 01:29:53,399
you can bypass all that nonsense and just go straight

1670
01:29:53,399 --> 01:29:58,560
to orthodox g what's up, ge Glad and reputing one dollar?

1671
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:00,760
What do you think about the fourth position political theory

1672
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:06,079
or third position? No, I don't really accept any quasi

1673
01:30:06,079 --> 01:30:09,840
fascist position, so I don't I'm not into fascism. Fourth

1674
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:14,439
political theory of Dugan is a little too much gnosticism.

1675
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:16,800
If you read the last chapter in his Fourth Political

1676
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:20,800
Theory book, it's very influenced by gnostic stuff. I do

1677
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:24,560
agree with the rejection of capitalism in the sense of

1678
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,439
monopoly capitalism and communism and evolution, so I agree with

1679
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:31,479
those critiques in the book. I don't know about I

1680
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,159
don't think a fourth position is going to do anything.

1681
01:30:34,199 --> 01:30:37,439
William Die ten dollars, I don't have any answers. So

1682
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:40,079
it's like, what's your position and solution to the political

1683
01:30:40,079 --> 01:30:40,800
problems with today?

1684
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:41,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1685
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:44,319
Speaker 1: I don't know William Dye ten dollars.

1686
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:45,439
Speaker 2: Sam Shimun is.

1687
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:46,600
Speaker 1: The one that led me to orthodoxy.

1688
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:47,079
Speaker 2: That's great.

1689
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:50,279
Speaker 1: Traditional Catholics blood will be boiling because they should know

1690
01:30:50,359 --> 01:30:52,800
that a Catholic told people to go to the Orthodox

1691
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:55,399
Church for something.

1692
01:30:56,319 --> 01:30:56,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1693
01:30:56,600 --> 01:31:00,560
Speaker 1: Well, I wasn't saying that Sam Chimun had definitively converted

1694
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:03,479
to Catholicism. I was saying he was attending a Catholic church.

1695
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:06,720
That's what he says. So the last time I asked him,

1696
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:10,520
he said he's still in between, but he believes that

1697
01:31:11,279 --> 01:31:14,000
because the Catholic Church will give him sacraments, he'll go

1698
01:31:14,079 --> 01:31:18,119
there before Orthodox. So that's that's his reasoning. I hope

1699
01:31:18,159 --> 01:31:20,800
he doesn't go Catholic. I think if Sam goes Catholic,

1700
01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:24,159
he'll have a hard time with a lot of these

1701
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:28,279
years of apologetics against Muslims that he's done, given the

1702
01:31:28,319 --> 01:31:32,159
fact that Vatican two says in two places that Christians, Jews,

1703
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:34,880
and Muslims all worship the same God. So I don't

1704
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,079
know why anybody would want to go to that. I

1705
01:31:39,159 --> 01:31:42,000
can't fathom why people want. I think people think they're

1706
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:45,720
going to get something in Catholicism that is just not there.

1707
01:31:46,039 --> 01:31:49,279
It's so they think that Roman Catholicism is this thing

1708
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:52,479
on paper, and they think it's this glorious thing from

1709
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:55,279
the Middle Ages. And then when you actually join it

1710
01:31:55,319 --> 01:31:59,600
and you find out that it's Skittle's priests and ecumenical

1711
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:04,039
service with Muslims and Jews and Hindus. I mean, that's

1712
01:32:04,039 --> 01:32:08,359
the reality. It's not the medieval church. Dude, Wake up,

1713
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:10,079
stop being dumb.

1714
01:32:12,319 --> 01:32:12,800
Speaker 2: Christian.

1715
01:32:13,199 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 1: They're Adrian one dollar high. Hey, what's up Adrian Christian

1716
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:17,680
twenty dollars?

1717
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:18,119
Speaker 2: Jay?

1718
01:32:18,119 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 1: What's the most compelling argument to help a Protestant consider orthodoxy?

1719
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:25,600
The very thing that we just discussed with this guy

1720
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,119
that the Church of the first thousand years believes in

1721
01:32:29,119 --> 01:32:36,279
apostolic succession, the real presence of Christ, and the Eucharist, vouchism, regeneration, tradition,

1722
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:41,600
oral tradition, liturgy. I mean, so therefore anything that's not

1723
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,239
that is not authentic. Orkers Entery, It's not that difficult.

1724
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:48,640
What would you do if you wanted to help convert

1725
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:51,119
a know it all friend? Well, if I know it all,

1726
01:32:51,159 --> 01:32:53,319
I would cut to the root of the issue and

1727
01:32:53,399 --> 01:32:55,439
just say like, well, how do you know you have

1728
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,920
the right canon? Like, if I'm a Protestant and no

1729
01:32:59,039 --> 01:33:02,960
decisions after the of the Apostles are binding, authoritative, or infallible,

1730
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:06,520
then it's open season. We can all just come up

1731
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:08,800
with our own canons, can't. We just study really hard,

1732
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:12,640
pray really hard, and my canon like Marcian did, right,

1733
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:15,640
My canon is just gonna be the Book of Jude. Oh,

1734
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:17,199
trust me, though I prayed about it really hard.

1735
01:33:17,239 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 2: I study a lot.

1736
01:33:18,079 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 1: I even learned Greek and Hebrew, and just just trust me, bro,

1737
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:25,880
Jude is the only legitimate book of the New Testament

1738
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:26,479
Cannon period.

1739
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 2: That's it.

1740
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 1: Now as a Protestant, how are you gonna tell me

1741
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:31,399
I'm wrong?

1742
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:35,239
Speaker 2: The church has received all these books of the church.

1743
01:33:35,279 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 1: What church? There's no such thing as the church, which

1744
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:41,079
is all the churches and some generic collective. That's a

1745
01:33:41,399 --> 01:33:44,680
fiction that doesn't actually exist. Patricia, five dollars, Thank you

1746
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:47,600
so much, Jub. Shout up to our time stamp master,

1747
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,840
our buddy, Jub. He says, one hundred dollars. Wow, dude,

1748
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:53,560
you don't have to send that much. Appreciate that, though.

1749
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,680
When is the next TikTok debate stream? I gotta build

1750
01:33:56,720 --> 01:34:01,279
up the energy for that because it's so intense and crazy.

1751
01:34:03,279 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 2: Also, are all four.

1752
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:07,840
Speaker 1: Of the Palomite synods considered ecumenical?

1753
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:08,079
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1754
01:34:08,119 --> 01:34:11,279
Speaker 1: I think they've attained the status of being authoritative, so

1755
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:14,039
they're not ecumenical in this sense of like, because there

1756
01:34:14,159 --> 01:34:17,159
was no empire per se anymore. I guess there was.

1757
01:34:17,279 --> 01:34:20,199
Technically it was in Byzantium, but you know, the West

1758
01:34:20,399 --> 01:34:25,439
wasn't really accepting Byzantine synods. So in the classical sense

1759
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:28,800
of the ocumena, it wouldn't be an ecumenical council. But

1760
01:34:29,159 --> 01:34:32,680
the Palomite Synods are for us the ninth Ecumenical Council.

1761
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,800
So yes, even though it doesn't technically have the term

1762
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:39,000
ecumenical council, sometimes you will see applied to all of

1763
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:45,439
the Palomite Synods the term a ninth Ecumenical Council. I'm

1764
01:34:45,479 --> 01:34:48,640
asking because a friend is captivated by scholasticism, Well, your

1765
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:52,600
friend needs to understand that scholasticism is not a thing

1766
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:55,039
in Rome anymore. They don't care about that. I mean,

1767
01:34:55,039 --> 01:34:59,079
the Romancalloay Church quit caring about that even before Vatican two.

1768
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:04,199
So this is something that nerdy twenty year olds are

1769
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:08,520
spurging out about and having mental master you know what

1770
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:12,079
session's over, which has nothing to do with reality. So

1771
01:35:12,359 --> 01:35:17,119
maybe tell your friend that he's just LARPing in a circle.

1772
01:35:17,239 --> 01:35:19,560
J r K to the Medieval to the Middle Ages,

1773
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:23,600
which doesn't exist. Michael Jarron five dollars. Why aren't you

1774
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:26,560
an Orthodox priest? Why would I be an Orthodox priest.

1775
01:35:27,039 --> 01:35:29,800
I've never had any interest in being a priest or

1776
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:35,680
any kind of minister. I quite content being an Internet goofball,

1777
01:35:36,359 --> 01:35:40,000
so I will forever be an Internet goall goofball hopefully.

1778
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:41,840
Speaker 2: Nathan three dollars.

1779
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,680
Speaker 1: Hey man, what are what are the teaps for the

1780
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:47,199
fat raassis to do the prostrations?

1781
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:49,560
Speaker 2: I'm so fat I can't see me tolds.

1782
01:35:51,279 --> 01:35:54,319
Speaker 1: Instead of doing prostrations, roll down a hill and every

1783
01:35:54,399 --> 01:35:57,880
time you roll over, do some different prayer. Armani Joones

1784
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:01,920
three dollars. Black people go to heaven if the Ethiopian

1785
01:36:02,039 --> 01:36:06,319
Orthodox Church isn't schis them. I've never even seen a

1786
01:36:06,319 --> 01:36:09,479
minority at a Russian Orthodox church. We have black people

1787
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:14,439
come to our church. So but also, I mean, I

1788
01:36:14,479 --> 01:36:19,239
don't damn the entire collective group of people because I

1789
01:36:19,279 --> 01:36:24,760
don't know people's destinies. No, we're not told this, so

1790
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:25,960
that's a bizarre question.

1791
01:36:31,279 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 2: G Are you there?

1792
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:32,399
Speaker 3: Did you want to go?

1793
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:34,319
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta interview, so I gotta go soon.

1794
01:36:34,399 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 2: But I'll try to do as me as I can.

1795
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:37,479
Speaker 5: Hello, he look, can you hear me?

1796
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:41,279
Speaker 11: All right? Okay, yeah, quick question.

1797
01:36:41,199 --> 01:36:44,399
Speaker 26: Just trying to wrap my mind around the trinity stuff

1798
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:47,079
in the co equal part.

1799
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 11: What is it that that's getting at?

1800
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:49,840
Speaker 7: What is it that that means?

1801
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: It means they all three share the same nature. They're

1802
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:53,600
equal in nature.

1803
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:56,520
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, that clears up all out.

1804
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:57,680
Speaker 3: Actually, so they're.

1805
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:02,119
Speaker 1: They're distinct in person, but equal in nature, because I mean.

1806
01:37:02,039 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 7: At first, I mean just coequal.

1807
01:37:04,119 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 26: I thought it uh ontologically first, and I mean.

1808
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean ontologically meaning that they have the

1809
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:12,079
same nature.

1810
01:37:12,159 --> 01:37:14,039
Speaker 5: Yes, okay, but.

1811
01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:18,039
Speaker 26: Not in terms of like like Jesus, let's say the

1812
01:37:18,079 --> 01:37:20,560
son and the Father are not the same thing per se, right,

1813
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:22,199
ontologically saying like, now.

1814
01:37:22,119 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 1: They're distinct persons, but they're united in nature essence. All right,

1815
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:33,399
So like two different human beings, they're two different persons,

1816
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:38,520
but they share the same human nature. Okay, that's an analogy.

1817
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:43,439
Speaker 26: And would you say, like what it is that Off

1818
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:45,800
the top of my head, I think John seventeen, I

1819
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,439
think twenty through verse twenty through twenty three, where it

1820
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:54,199
says like well this paraphrasing obviously that you whoever he's

1821
01:37:54,199 --> 01:37:57,800
speaking to can become one with God. Like I have

1822
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:01,800
paraphrasing very hard. What is that because when I think

1823
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:03,520
about the coequal part, this is kind.

1824
01:38:03,359 --> 01:38:03,680
Speaker 11: Of the birth.

1825
01:38:04,359 --> 01:38:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1826
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:07,640
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we become sons of God by grace, not

1827
01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:10,640
by nature. Jesus is the second person of the Godhead,

1828
01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:13,119
so he is the son of God eternally generated from

1829
01:38:13,159 --> 01:38:16,840
the Father, from the Father's nature. So we never become

1830
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:19,680
the nature of God, but we do participate in the

1831
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:22,279
grace of God or the uncreated energy of God. That's

1832
01:38:22,279 --> 01:38:22,920
what that means.

1833
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:27,479
Speaker 26: Okay, man, I got a couple other questions.

1834
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:29,119
Speaker 5: Man, but I mean, it's raining over here pretty bad.

1835
01:38:29,119 --> 01:38:31,520
But I appreciate you. I understand a little bit more now.

1836
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, good questions. Appreciate that. I got a couple of

1837
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:47,800
minutes for the last Nicholas, last couple questions. I want

1838
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:48,960
to remind you guys too, to head on over to

1839
01:38:49,039 --> 01:38:51,840
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1840
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1841
01:38:53,039 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 2: If you want to up.

1842
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:57,359
Speaker 1: Your toxic masculinity, you want some focus, you want some energy,

1843
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:00,600
heading over to chalk dot com h o Q use

1844
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:03,039
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1845
01:39:03,079 --> 01:39:05,560
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1846
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:08,520
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1847
01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 2: What's up, man, hey man?

1848
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,760
Speaker 19: I was wondering if you could recommend the two books

1849
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:18,399
one for the on the First Council of Constantople and

1850
01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:20,000
the Seventh Council.

1851
01:39:24,359 --> 01:39:27,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if a specific book just on Constantinople one.

1852
01:39:27,960 --> 01:39:30,479
I mean, there could be some academic text out on

1853
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:35,319
that that I'm not aware of. I mean, usually, you know,

1854
01:39:35,399 --> 01:39:38,279
any book that kind of covers the seven ecumenical councils

1855
01:39:38,319 --> 01:39:42,600
will touch on the emphasis in each of them. So

1856
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:46,079
like Pelican's book, Volume one is going to cover all

1857
01:39:46,119 --> 01:39:49,640
of those general ideas. But I think only recently. I

1858
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,960
don't know if Price has done Richard Price has done

1859
01:39:52,399 --> 01:39:56,159
Constantinople one or not. Maybe he did, But I would

1860
01:39:56,199 --> 01:39:58,119
just read like a general overview of it, like what

1861
01:39:58,560 --> 01:39:59,920
specifically are you looking for?

1862
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 3: Uh?

1863
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:06,720
Speaker 11: More like how the Trinity came in?

1864
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:08,039
Speaker 3: Oh.

1865
01:40:08,119 --> 01:40:10,600
Speaker 1: I would say, well, you could read doctor go go

1866
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:15,000
listen to uh doctor Branson's lectures on the Cappa doceans

1867
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,479
because a lot of his lectures deal with conceptinoble one.

1868
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:20,520
So doctor bo Branson has a five lectures. I think

1869
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:23,760
at his website plenty of interviews on YouTube, that would

1870
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:25,840
be a good place to go to. His dissertation is

1871
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:28,640
on the cap of Doceans, but uh, I don't know.

1872
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:29,920
That might be a little too technical.

1873
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:33,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, all right. And then on the seventh

1874
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,239
Community for the Icons.

1875
01:40:36,119 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would read, uh, the Alspinsky Lost Key book

1876
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:46,000
Theology Icon Volume one, and then Theodore the Studit's book

1877
01:40:46,079 --> 01:40:49,920
on the Holy Icons, and John Demascus is. These are

1878
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:53,000
fairly short books. John Demascus is Defense of the Holy Images.

1879
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:59,399
All right, yeah, man, thank you? Xander. What's up?

1880
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:03,239
Speaker 13: We've got people from Buffy the Vampire Slayer joining us today.

1881
01:41:03,239 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 1: What's up, Xander?

1882
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:07,239
Speaker 3: Jay?

1883
01:41:07,279 --> 01:41:09,119
Speaker 2: What's going on the what's on your mind?

1884
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:11,279
Speaker 3: Well, dude, my.

1885
01:41:11,239 --> 01:41:13,640
Speaker 19: Voice was shot, so if it's annoying, I was torn

1886
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:15,520
between coming up here, So sorry about that.

1887
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:17,640
Speaker 5: I was talking throughout.

1888
01:41:18,520 --> 01:41:20,399
Speaker 19: I think I know the answer now having listened to you.

1889
01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:21,560
Speaker 5: But e Michael.

1890
01:41:21,359 --> 01:41:24,760
Speaker 3: Jones and his writings on the logos, what are your

1891
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:25,439
thoughts on that?

1892
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:29,600
Speaker 19: And I was curious too, like Greek philosophy and how

1893
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:32,119
operative you think that is in Christianity?

1894
01:41:33,239 --> 01:41:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote.

1895
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:37,279
Speaker 1: I wrote an essay on this called logos and wisdom,

1896
01:41:37,439 --> 01:41:40,479
and I ever since I heard him first talk about this,

1897
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:42,319
I've always thought he was wrong, so I never read

1898
01:41:42,319 --> 01:41:45,399
his stuff on it because logos is not a pagan

1899
01:41:45,439 --> 01:41:49,760
philosophical principle. John is pulling from the wisdom texts of

1900
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:54,319
Solomon and Proverbs, so it's not coming from Plato. He's

1901
01:41:54,359 --> 01:41:57,960
probably trying to appeal to people in the Greek and

1902
01:41:58,079 --> 01:42:02,840
Roman world by but it's not Logos is the second

1903
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:05,520
person of the Godhead, and John one, it's not the

1904
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:08,399
same thing as Marcus Aurelius as Logos.

1905
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:09,359
Speaker 3: I think. Gotcha?

1906
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 19: And then what what are your thoughts on gnocissism and kabala?

1907
01:42:14,399 --> 01:42:17,760
And I'm curious about Eastern religions.

1908
01:42:17,199 --> 01:42:20,319
Speaker 1: Have I mean, I just did multiple lectures on kabbala

1909
01:42:20,319 --> 01:42:23,239
and narcissism the last two weeks, so you could find

1910
01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:26,920
uh several of those. And I'm not being a dickhead.

1911
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:30,199
I'm just saying, like literally just covered that like multiple

1912
01:42:30,199 --> 01:42:31,359
times in the last few weeks.

1913
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:36,239
Speaker 3: Gotcha. And then like Christian Europe, like the kids.

1914
01:42:36,079 --> 01:42:38,279
Speaker 19: Would call it base like throughout its history, like it

1915
01:42:38,319 --> 01:42:42,439
was patriarchal, it was a warring, you know, it was

1916
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:46,439
it was a masculine ethic compared to now, like modern

1917
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:48,720
Christianity is pretty defanged and neutered.

1918
01:42:49,239 --> 01:42:51,159
Speaker 1: What would you at, Well, most of what you're talking

1919
01:42:51,159 --> 01:42:53,279
about is just not even Christianity. It's all a bunch

1920
01:42:53,319 --> 01:42:57,039
of sex and cults and heretics. So I mean, I

1921
01:42:57,039 --> 01:42:58,920
don't wait, we don't recognize any of that stuff as

1922
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,960
even Christianity. It's a bunch of clown clown church clown show.

1923
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:04,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, well that brings me.

1924
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:07,039
Speaker 19: I posted in the comments that do you know brother

1925
01:43:07,119 --> 01:43:07,920
Peter Diamond.

1926
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 1: I don't know them, but I know of that could Yeah.

1927
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:13,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're wild guys.

1928
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 1: But I posted so, yeah, people should read the set

1929
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:20,800
of a Conscious Delusion by John Pontrello because he is

1930
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:23,640
somebody that we helped to become orthodox out of the

1931
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:24,640
set of a Conscius world.

1932
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:29,920
Speaker 19: Okay, well, that he's a sharp chat like. I mean,

1933
01:43:30,039 --> 01:43:32,239
I'm pretty new to you. I've only been following you for.

1934
01:43:32,119 --> 01:43:35,239
Speaker 3: Like a month. But he put a really good argument together.

1935
01:43:35,279 --> 01:43:36,640
Obviously I don't know so much, but.

1936
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 19: Is there a good argument to like? Actually, he made

1937
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:43,960
seven points. He said canon law states that manifest and

1938
01:43:44,079 --> 01:43:47,279
notorious heresy facto exchange.

1939
01:43:47,399 --> 01:43:50,159
Speaker 1: So John John Pontrello's book is written against all of

1940
01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:53,279
those arguments, and I did a three hour live stream

1941
01:43:53,319 --> 01:43:55,760
addressing all of those arguments, so you can look up

1942
01:43:55,760 --> 01:43:58,359
how set of a contess improves orthodox theology if you're

1943
01:43:58,359 --> 01:44:00,760
interested in in my response that suff.

1944
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:01,680
Speaker 3: Ert sees.

1945
01:44:08,239 --> 01:44:11,239
Speaker 1: J forty four Life J forty four l f E.

1946
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:15,319
All right, I think we're gonna have to end it

1947
01:44:15,319 --> 01:44:18,079
because I gotta go do somebody's podcast. But remember to

1948
01:44:18,199 --> 01:44:20,760
get my books over at Jasonelsis dot com in the

1949
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,640
shop signed copies as the Trek Hollywood three will be

1950
01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:26,920
out hopefully in the next few months. I'm up to

1951
01:44:27,319 --> 01:44:31,239
about two hundred and sixty pages. Now I wish it

1952
01:44:31,279 --> 01:44:33,359
was just it just takes forever to write a book.

1953
01:44:35,119 --> 01:44:37,840
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's a lot of work. But be patient.

1954
01:44:38,039 --> 01:44:40,000
Speaker 1: That's why I haven't done a whole lot of part

1955
01:44:40,039 --> 01:44:42,880
twos and talks for subscribers and all that. I'll try

1956
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:44,359
to get some of that material up in the next

1957
01:44:44,359 --> 01:44:47,039
couple of days. I'm just really trying to hammer away

1958
01:44:47,039 --> 01:44:49,720
at the book. But thank you guys so much and

1959
01:44:50,039 --> 01:44:53,079
fun talks today and appreciate the superchats. I think we

1960
01:44:53,119 --> 01:44:56,039
got a couple more here Stefan DV eleven dollars fifty

1961
01:44:56,079 --> 01:45:00,479
more cents. Your wife is making more in super chats. Uh, oh, well,

1962
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:03,640
if it happens, it happens. I'm proud for her to do.

1963
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:04,039
Speaker 2: Well.

1964
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:08,199
Speaker 1: Send some super tats for Jay tuition is due. Also,

1965
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,000
Andrew Wilson, historian debate courses would be involved in that.

1966
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:14,640
He asked me to help with that, and I said

1967
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,439
I would be able to, but the initial day that

1968
01:45:17,479 --> 01:45:20,479
he asked, I wasn't able to go do it. But

1969
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:22,880
maybe down the road, I think we'll be trying to

1970
01:45:22,880 --> 01:45:25,800
do some more stuff like that. But yeah, I'm always

1971
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:27,880
down to help out with something like that. Everybody have

1972
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:38,560
a good day.