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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos. I am Dan Valley coming

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at you with my certified d lumber jack co host

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mister Grant. We're in the Backer's cap right now. Super

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trendy and cool. If you're watching on YouTube, we're here

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with I don't know if it's long awaited. I think

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we only teased it for a few days, but we're

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doing a mega Which NBA player would you rather have

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on your team for the next five years. We'll get

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into the considerations, but you submitted. We got a ton

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of answers or submissions. We're gonna see how many we

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can get to. I've chosen the best fifty and we're

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just gonna try and go through couplings before we get

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to that, though very quickly. Promo code Sickle Mode at

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our merch shop will get you twenty percent off of everything,

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no matter how much do you spend, no matter how

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many items you get. We got cool shit like you

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can get these in hats, but these designs are also

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in shirts Proud Sicco which has been I'm wearing a

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sweatshirt right now that has that Grant's got on the I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if this is even in the shop anymore.

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But I have I do have the hard Knock's hat on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's for the sickos hat and our est that's

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actually been the most popular design we've sold, Grant. No

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one wants to have a Sicko Mode. It's up there too. Again,

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you can get these all on clothes. But and if

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I remember, I'll throw the QR code on screen. Some

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people like that, but promo code Sicko Mode at siko

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m ode. That's the best way to support the show.

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But enough self promotion unless I want. I do want

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to know though, about my co host and how he

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is doing so, Grant, how are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing very well. I just since we're gonna make

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it a habit of comment on my shirts. I don't

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do this purposely, but I really am blending in with

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the background. Again, I feel like I have like this

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is a blue shirt and a kind of blue gray background,

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so I'm mostly invisible. But you know, the takes will

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be so busy.

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Speaker 1: That's the esthetic, though, is you wanted only to slightly

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differentiate from your decorse so that when you are selling

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items and putting it on TikTok and linking out to

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your Amazon shop, obviously, like that's the new wave of

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influencer dumb or something sound how about this exercise, though.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited because of the sheer breadth of like options

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we've been given. Like some are, yeah, that's a conversation

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we should have, and then some are like, I have

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not thought of that ever before. So comparing these two players,

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so I think it should be good as usual. It

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will be very difficult for us to move quickly through

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the ones that should be moved through quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, you'll get priority of here

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in our discord when we ever run these types of exercises,

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So join our discord the link that's the podcasting YouTube description.

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So looking at this though, before we really get into it.

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One the order is rand is for the most part random.

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Grant doesn't know what's coming at all. In what order

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I don't know because I randomized them, except I did

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try to block. We have a lot of LaMelo Zion

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and I think Alobank Carrol's in there. A bunch is

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also sort of a McCain run we have, so I

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have ordered those or try to together. But otherwise there's

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gonna be land mines about players maybe you don't care

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about or maybe some people haven't heard of. That's why

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you should stick around for the entire thing. Is there

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any sort of approach when you're looking at these I

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think that one of the things that I got asked

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the most about is how are you considering contracts in

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this five years? Because I think we talk the most

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about age, obviously, talent, skill set fit, and we're both

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going to look at it as Hey, we're trying to

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build a team to win as much as possible in

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the next five years, so that's pretty straightforward. But how

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do you factor in contracts to the equation? Is it

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sort of the one? I think the biggest differentiator for

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me is if someone's on a rookie scale versus if

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someone's on a mega deal already. That might be a

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bigger factor. Otherwise I don't know how much that it

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actually I guess if someone's on a bad deal, But

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like we have the whole point of this exercise, we

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have very few of just this person's on a contract

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that sucks, so you would clearly pick this person anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's case by case. I think just as long

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as you stay true to the idea being you are

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trying to put this player on a team and win

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as much as you can, Like you sort of can't

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do that without thinking about the cost because there's just

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only so much you can spend as a team. So

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that's going to be a factor. That's a big one.

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Like I think age is a factor in a lot

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of cases, although there are several that are like it's

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close enough to not make a huge difference in some

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of these comparisons. I thought it was interesting that a

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lot of these do just sort of pair guys that

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are in similar age brackets, so that may not come

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up as much, but it's just kind of a holistic

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given what this guy does or may be able to

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do going forward or may not depending on where you

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are in the player's career trajectory and the cost, Like

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just who do you want for five years? And you

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can throw in I mean, look, we're gonna talk about LaMelo,

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so it's like you can throw in how good of

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a leader will this guy be and will that be

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the role he needs to play on whatever hypothetical you know,

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So it's all it's pretty global. It's just kind of

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designed to let's assess like where these guys are and

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you know, the pluses and minuses going forward.

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Speaker 1: And the final thing I've given consideration to is you

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don't really know. And I think that's part of the

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challenge and the fun of this is that you're not

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necessarily saying we want because some of these players aren't superstars.

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You're not saying we want. This guy's our starting point

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of how we're building a team with a winner. So

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you almost have to envision, Okay, well he's not going

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to be the only guy, but we also don't know

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what type of team we're putting him onto, So that

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comes into part. If you think someone's more scalable than another,

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that's going to be a vote like in their favor

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for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there will just be guys that this is

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like my least favorite kind of player where it's like

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he has to play this outsized role and he's just

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not good enough to be that number one guy, but

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he sort of has to, you know what I mean.

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Like that player type is really tricky, and there are

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going to be some of those here.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to it. We begin with a banger from

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Cavsanada Grant and I think we'll alternate just sort of

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reading them off. I'll go first, Darius Garland or Tyre's Halliburton.

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Who would you rather have for the next five years?

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Speaker 2: Man, we really do start with a tough one. I

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would say, had we done this a week ago, two

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weeks ago, I think Garland would have been the much

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easier pick. But Halliburton has finally had a couple of

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good like, oh, there he is, you know those kind

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of games lately. I'm gonna lean Halliburton. I hate you know,

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I'm not gonna pontificate too much before just saying so.

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I guess that's just really a vote in favor of

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He's closer to the guy he was pre hamstring injury

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last year than the guy he's been this year, certainly,

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and for long stretches of last season, which is like

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a singular driver of excellent offense. Garland is awesome. We've

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never seen him in the kind of role that Haliburton

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has played, you know, where he's the be all end all.

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I don't know that Garland is incapable of doing that.

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I've just seen Halliburton do it. So it's but it

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is close, man, Like I really I wouldn't like. I

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don't know which way you're going. We haven't discussed this,

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but if you think it's Garland. I can't really fight

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you because Halliburton's Low's not to say Garland hasn't had some,

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but Haliburton's lows have been like really concerning, you know,

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starting this year for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm leaning Garland at this point. And

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maybe that's a lot of recency bias and Tyre's Haliburton

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has picked up. But when you if we consider the

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injury history at this point, where Haliburton's dealt with hamstring

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and back issues that have severely limited him, and we're

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at a point where also the framing is man Tyre's

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Haliburton over his six quarters of last six quarters of

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basketball is doing this. Oh so now we're just breaking

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it down by half games. He concerns me and Garland. Yes,

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he's had his own injury histories, but it's always just

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got smacked in the face, couldn't eat. It's it's nothing

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that feels chronic. You could get into the contracts too,

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of like, well they're gonna run for a similar time

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and Garland is not going to be on a SuperMac,

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so that I think is a vote in his favor

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as well. I'm starting to wonder if Garland is the more.

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I don't even know. It's not necessarilyn insult, but doesn't

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he feel more plug and play on offense at this

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point like we've seen Haliburton and maybe this is a

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design of the Pacers, but there've been struggles about how

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it took a while for them to figure out how

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to use him when they're bringing in this other ballhand

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or where's Garland? Yes, him and Donovan Mitchell went through

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odd stretches and less than ideal stretches, but by and large,

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like he's also emerged with someone who, oh, we want

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him to run the offense, even though we have Donovan

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Mitchell and Evan Mobley and so the fact he could

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play off of them, but you've also have that level

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of belief and conviction and what he's doing scoring from

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basically every level this season, it's him for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, Like, would you say that Halliburton's the

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best version of Haliburton is better than what we've seen

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as the best version of Garland.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it would probably come down to a and both

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of these players are young enough to where maybe neither

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has reached their peak, So it comes down to what's

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the feasibility of them sustaining the peaks that we know of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I look again, like I said, I can't fault you.

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I think as I'm just talking it out, that's it

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for me, which is to say, like I've seen Haliburton

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be like an MVP contender on the level that Garland

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just has hit and that the problem with that is

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like what if that was just a fluke and he

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can't get back to that and Garland Garland's Maybe is

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Garland the higher floor? Like is that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know he has to be because I do

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think the health stuff and someone in our comments that

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brought us about like maybe is that why the Kings

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ultimately dealt him is because one, you know, we're going

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back to scalability, the partnership with the Aaron Fox wasn't

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working out. I still think they could have figured something out,

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but if they were actually concerned about his body holding up.

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But so, I do think that Garland absolutely has the

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higher floor, which which fact that's fair.

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Speaker 2: I'll send you this one, Dan. This is from Nicole

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cha Cole. Out of our discord. We got herb Jones

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and Keegan Murray.

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Speaker 1: Who you taking? I think I lean herb Jones at

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this point Kegan Murray's become a really, really good defender,

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and he has the higher ceiling as an offensive player,

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but he has struggled part of that this year with

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his shot, and part of that might just be okay,

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now you've added another cook in the kitchen with the

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mart Ro's in, and there's been inconsistent, not inconsistent, but

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he missed sometime. But I look at Herb Jones and

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I don't think, like, maybe Keegan Murray makes some all

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defense teams. We know Herb Jones is gonna have how

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many all defense teams by the time he hangs up,

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And I think he's improved off offensive offensively is no,

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he's not quite pass, dribble and shoot, but like he

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can do a little bit of all of those things now.

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And I would be interested to see, honestly, with both

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of these guys, what could they maybe do in a

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half court with better spacing around them. I think it's

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Herb Jones for me because I think there's still that

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clear separator on defense between the two, and I don't

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I haven't seen a version of Keegan Murray, and by design,

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of course, with the way the Kings are set up,

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I don't know that I trust Keegan Murray's offense enough

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to say that I want him over Herb Jones for

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the next half decade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I lean Herb to one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My favorite are the premium skill argument, Like we know

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Herb Jones is just elite at a thing, that just

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he's one of the best defensive players in the league,

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super versatile. That shows up in the stats with the

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steel rate and all that stuff. But he's just you

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watch him and that guy's one of the best defensive

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players in the league. I think if you go Murray one,

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you're banking on you, like, say, his rookie year shooting

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being more real than his twenty eight percent from three

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this year. And you're also probably persuaded that a lot

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of his perceived underperformance again, his defense has improved and

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he is very good there. Now he's not Herb Jones.

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A lot of his underperformance owes to like just the

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role that he's in on this Kings team, where it's

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like he just isn't gonna get a lot of chances

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right to one get shots up, but two just explore like, oh,

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maybe he can do more of X, Y and Z,

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which we've seen signs of but like if you're on

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team Keegan, it's it's a lot of it has to be.

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There's more here that in another situation he could tap

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into and that might be right, But I think I

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feel safe for going with I know Herb Jones is

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going to be able to guard whoever the other team's

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best player is, be passable, and maybe get a little

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better as an offensive player, Like you shot over forty

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percent from three last year. Not crazy volume, but like

261
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you get a little of that, you get a little

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pick and roll ball handling, Like that's enough I think

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for the defense to take it.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how much this should factor in,

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But like Herb Jones has two more years after this

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one left on his deal where it's very team friendly,

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Keegan Murray has one year of cost controlled in it.

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I'm assuming he's gonna get a deal that well outstrips

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Herb Jones. How much was Herb Jones getting his next

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deal wasn't a huge factor for me, but this was

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a good one. Next up we have Chet Holmgren or

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Evan Mobley. This also came from Kavsanada made two at

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the top because I found these to be so fascinating grant,

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who are you taking for the next five years?

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Speaker 2: These are just brutal. This is kind of like there's

276
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there's a little bit of a Haliburton Garland parallel here

277
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with Mobley. Again, you don't talk about floors with guys

278
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like this necessarily, but the injury stuff with Holmgren, Now, granted,

279
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these are two like fairly certainly this latest one is

280
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a fluke catastrophic ugly fall, you know, not like, oh,

281
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he's got you know, calf injuries that won't go away

282
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or hamstrings or whatever. It still concerns me because now

283
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we're you know, he's missed a full season, was awesome

284
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last year and is gonna miss you know, several more

285
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weeks this year. I think I think I still probably go,

286
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oh god, I don't even know. I don't know what

287
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to do here. Uh, I'm gonna go Chet. I'm gonna

288
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go Chet because I think he got to a higher

289
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offensive level faster than Mobley did, and I think defensively

290
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they Mobley's probably better now, but I think Chet is

291
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close enough to where I'm more. I think the offensive

292
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upside for Holmegren is probably higher. Quietly, Mobley's numbers are

293
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kind of back down to the level that he was

294
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at last year, and the whole leap angle is less

295
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persuasive than it was a few weeks ago. It's this

296
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:56,120
is the closest so far though. I'm going Chet, But

297
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,000
I love Evan Mobley, and Mobley's is the safer pick.

298
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,279
Speaker 1: And he's also who I'm choosing. I'm going with MOBILEI

299
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I like the I don't know what chet ceiling is

300
00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:09,919
on offense anymore. And I think what I like about

301
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,039
Mobili is if you put MOBILEI in I know, he

302
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,879
doesn't have the same quote unquote range, like the same jumper,

303
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,960
but if you put Mobile in Oklahoma City spacing, yeah,

304
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,919
he ends up being better overall. I think than Chet.

305
00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:25,799
I find what he does defensively scale like Chet might

306
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,679
is the better rim protector overall. But I think with Mobile,

307
00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:30,960
even though he plays with Allen, I don't feel the

308
00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:33,440
need if you need to go out and give another

309
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,600
big man thirty million dollars a year where you did

310
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,720
that because you felt like you were too frail on

311
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the front line against opponents. But also I think this

312
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,240
might just be the deciding factor. Do I think that Mobili.

313
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,279
I really do think Mobile's gonna wind up when we

314
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,039
look back being the better passer, someone getting downhill, like

315
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,080
making those types of decisions, someone who could be more

316
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,240
of an offensive hub. But the hell thing, like I

317
00:14:52,279 --> 00:14:53,919
know you said that, it's kind of that freak fall,

318
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,080
but it's also his body type, like he's just so

319
00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:00,200
long and spindly that these injuries could crop up little

320
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,919
bit more. Also, look, Evan Mobley missed his entire rookie

321
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,919
season with a foot injury, and that's that's. I don't

322
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,600
care who you are, Joelle embiid Chet Holmgren, I don't

323
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,080
care if you're a guard. That's gonna concern me, so Mobili,

324
00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:14,759
But I'm with you that this is close. Homegren does

325
00:15:14,919 --> 00:15:18,279
have Okay, Like Mobile's going to be really expensive next year,

326
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:20,720
and so Homegren you're gonna have another year of cost

327
00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:23,879
control there that you don't get with mobiley, So I

328
00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:25,879
think that could be a differentiator for some. But just

329
00:15:25,919 --> 00:15:29,159
the the health stuff coupled with how good I really

330
00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:31,559
do believe Evan Mobley is on offense, and it's to

331
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,600
me it's still more of an eye test versus numbers

332
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,000
thing with him a lot of the times on offense,

333
00:15:35,039 --> 00:15:36,600
and I just I see it.

334
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 2: I think I'll concede that a lot of picking Chet

335
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,600
for me is there's more of a mystery box element

336
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,879
because he's played fewer than one hundred games so far,

337
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whereas Mobili Mobley's growth or lack of it, I guess

338
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,519
it's just been steady, and like somehow his steady improvement

339
00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:57,000
is like disappointing because he's not taking the super Oh

340
00:15:57,039 --> 00:16:00,799
he's not Kevin Garnett like today right now on brown Esque,

341
00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:04,159
where it's he's mentally improved year over a year, yeah, right,

342
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,440
and then and then like who knows if we'd seen

343
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,399
you know, two full seasons or like I guess, yeah,

344
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:13,080
two plus full seasons from Chet, he might be subject

345
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,480
to some of the same like criticism where it's, oh,

346
00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:19,360
he's not getting so much better. I think fewer games

347
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,480
ironically gives me like makes me more excited because like, oh,

348
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:25,639
we don't really know yet, whereas with mobile we feel

349
00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:27,919
like we have a sense of what that trajectory is.

350
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But yeah, it's it's tough. I hate this, but I'm going.

351
00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:34,159
Speaker 1: Chet, This this is fun. I knew Cavsanada was gonna

352
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,600
have multiple ones in here, but the fact that they

353
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,960
came in up top I probably didn't do a good

354
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,840
job of randomizing them too much, but my head already

355
00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:41,200
hurts them were only three players and.

356
00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: All right, oh okay, this is from our dear friend

357
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of the podcast, Brian Spork Tyres, Maxi, Dan or Jared McCain.

358
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Speaker 1: I hope this is a joke just because like it

359
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:56,679
has to be Tyrese MAXI is it? You could frame

360
00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:59,240
it strictly as a contract. So, Jared McCain, you have

361
00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:02,399
he's in his rookie seasons, you have these four cost

362
00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,839
controlled years versus MAXI is now on a max deal.

363
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,319
Does that change it for you at all? Because the

364
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,240
answer is Maxie. If you throw the contracts out the window,

365
00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:12,920
the answer is Maxie, it's just not even close.

366
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, the what that made me think

367
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:20,000
of right away was what are the chances McCain is

368
00:17:20,039 --> 00:17:23,039
someone that when his time comes, is pretty much a

369
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,599
no brainer. Max Like, I don't know that what a

370
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,599
great outcome that would be, but I don't know that

371
00:17:28,599 --> 00:17:30,960
that's a given. Whereas Maxi, it was, you know, he

372
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,519
had to wait obviously, but it was like he was

373
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getting that money and nobody was like, oh, that seems

374
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,519
like too much, you know, Maxie is already where you

375
00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:39,759
hope could get.

376
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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I was gonna say, I haven't seen

377
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,039
from what McCain is awesome, but do you try Like

378
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,160
the argument against Maxie would be you don't think that

379
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,319
he can run a team on his own. I haven't

380
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,640
seen anything from McCain, at least as a playmaker that

381
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,160
would make me think he's going to be better equipped

382
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,119
to do that at any point in the next half decade.

383
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,799
Speaker 2: Over Tyres, Yeah, I mean like MAXI averaged twenty five

384
00:18:01,839 --> 00:18:04,559
a game last year, was just like a huge driver

385
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,240
of a very good team offensively when everybody was right.

386
00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:11,759
So I mean like if anything like MAXI might have

387
00:18:11,839 --> 00:18:14,240
another level and then it's just like, well, now, how

388
00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:16,519
many how many jumps does McCain have to make over

389
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:18,240
the next five years to get there? It's a lot.

390
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,759
So I think it's Maxie. But I enjoy the exuberance

391
00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:24,200
of the Philly fandom having McCain in the conversation.

392
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 1: If you're such a cap obsessive where it's give me

393
00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:30,200
the rookie scale, that's.

394
00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:33,799
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, well, I mean, in fairness, he is playing

395
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,880
as a good starter now, like you know, in the

396
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,880
first year of his rookie deal. So whether you I

397
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,279
don't know if how confident we are that's going to sustain.

398
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,480
But like, was that true of MAXI? I mean MAXI

399
00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:48,079
average eight a game started eight times as a rookie.

400
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,720
Different situation, but like I don't know McCain McCain's kind

401
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,319
of McCain might be ahead if we just look at

402
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,319
the age comps.

403
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 1: Well we had a bunch of McCain's. I'm assuming there's

404
00:18:58,039 --> 00:19:01,720
more on the way here. So grant Jared McCain or

405
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,920
balakol of Bali this is from Brydon the next five years.

406
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,079
Speaker 2: I don't know that this should be easier, but I

407
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,880
think our our Koler Bali allegiance as well understood. I

408
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,119
go blaw. He doesn't. He doesn't have like the like

409
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,480
I feel like I understand roughly what kind of player

410
00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:23,319
McCain is going to be or something close to it.

411
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,920
COOLi Bali, I think is better now and has so

412
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,519
many more pathways to be a star in like you know,

413
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,839
we've talked about this, like maybe he's just a stopper.

414
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,680
Oh and maybe he's a first option pick and roll

415
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,759
ball handler, like his drives of doubled per game, his

416
00:19:37,839 --> 00:19:40,039
pick and roll ball handling efficiency is way up. Like

417
00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:42,759
cool A Bally is cool. Bally has the potential to

418
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:45,680
be the best, one of the most valuable player types

419
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,839
in the league. And I think McCain's size and athleticism

420
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,039
is like he's just not going to get there ceiling wise,

421
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,680
So it's it's pretty easy cool for me.

422
00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pretty easy cool BALI for me as well.

423
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,400
I like the aspect of even if you think Jared

424
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,599
mc I mean, he does have more ball skills, the

425
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,759
growth that ballas made in just not even two seasons,

426
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,799
but also the idea that you could just put him

427
00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:09,640
on the other team's best player defensively, almost irrespective of

428
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,559
almost regardless of position. Excuse me, I know some people

429
00:20:13,559 --> 00:20:17,680
don't like it when I trip over words. That's easy

430
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,319
ballall for me, rough stretch for Jared McCain. Let's se

431
00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:21,359
if he does any better here.

432
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: Don't think so. Steph Castle versus Jared McCain, you got

433
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,039
to choose first here.

434
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Steph Castle. McCain definitely might have

435
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,880
the higher offensive ceiling, but I've been impressed with Look,

436
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,799
the shooting for Castle is just gonna be a swing

437
00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:38,559
skill I know that the Spurs are putting him in

438
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,480
unique opportunities with the way how far he's spacing behind

439
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,079
the arc. If he ever just becomes a league average

440
00:20:43,079 --> 00:20:46,680
three point shooter, big deal, The defense is hugely different.

441
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,200
You can already just throw him on the other team's

442
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,559
best perimeter player within size reason. And I think the

443
00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:55,880
Spurs still don't have all this ideal spacing, and I

444
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,039
know he's kind of just secondary there. I feel like

445
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,519
he's going to be the better passer. And so if

446
00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:03,680
you view, if we broke it down through, Jared McCain's

447
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,920
gonna be the better score, Steph Castle is gonna be

448
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,359
the better defender. Kind of not that these are the

449
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,680
only three areas, but like one of the bigger separators

450
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,039
would be, well, who's gonna be like the better driver

451
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,480
of table setting for others. I guess McCain still looks

452
00:21:16,519 --> 00:21:19,200
like he'll create better advantages. But some of the passes

453
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,200
that Steph Castle is thrown again in tight spaces, I'm

454
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,200
gonna go with him.

455
00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in the bag for Castle already, and it's

456
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:29,359
he's under forty percent from the field, like it just

457
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,039
I don't care that the size and the athleticism in

458
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,599
the field and just the burst like it's it. You know,

459
00:21:35,839 --> 00:21:39,240
he's got so many qualities that you just like McCain

460
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,359
just won't have, you know, no matter what. And the

461
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,000
shoot it's I was having a conversation about this yesterday,

462
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:49,759
like when are we gonna stop like overvaluing the player

463
00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:52,200
type where you say, God, if he can only learn

464
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,559
how to shoot, like I'm talking about the Thompsons and

465
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,680
Castle and just go on. I mean, Herb Jones was

466
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,680
subject to this for a while too, Like it doesn't

467
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,119
happen a lot where it's just like, oh oh, this

468
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:05,319
like a plus premium athlete that had everything but a shot,

469
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:08,599
got a shot and then became great. I don't care,

470
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,799
like I still even I'm still going Castle. I think

471
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,920
I think he might be special and and it's way

472
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,559
too early and that's a dumb thing to say, but

473
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,079
I'm I'm pretty sold on him.

474
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 1: Another Steph Castle one.

475
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, one, you though I am, I okay, well you

476
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:25,319
know you got to read it to me, but you think.

477
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sorry, Steph Castle or Jeremy Sohan. This comes

478
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:30,680
from Steely official Steely Dan, Who do you taking it

479
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,440
for the next five years?

480
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: Grant it's Castle again. I mean Sohn, I still don't

481
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,920
know what he is. I think he's kind of He's

482
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,960
good at a lot of things. He's got the shoot

483
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,480
shooting issue too. He's bigger. He might be more defensively versatile.

484
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:48,680
I say, Mike, because I think Castle has the potential

485
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,160
to guard up as well as down in ways that

486
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,119
you know, put him on a similar level. Yeah, Castle

487
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,200
has like superstar upside, so Han just like just does not.

488
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a pretty easy one. And

489
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,279
also I think the spurs one, so hand's healthy planning

490
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,119
to have some uncomfortable conversations because I don't know defensively, sure,

491
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,960
but offensively, I don't know how you make him and

492
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,200
Wenby work. And even with Steph Castle right now the

493
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,039
fact that you can spin or not that you can,

494
00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:17,359
and like defense are guarding him, but you can a

495
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,000
vision a scenario where okay, he's standing thirty feet away

496
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,519
from the basket and defenses are semi concerned about what

497
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:25,119
happens next. Yeah, can't do that with Jeremy Sohan.

498
00:23:25,319 --> 00:23:29,079
Speaker 2: No, all right, Dan from Real Syrup, Scottie Barnes or

499
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,240
Jalen Williams oh Man, This one's tough.

500
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,799
Speaker 1: No, it's not. I'm going Scottie Barnes. I think Jalen

501
00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:44,519
Williams is fantastic, but if you have to I don't know,

502
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:46,440
because Scotty Barnes, if you were to plug him into

503
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,880
a bigger team dynamic, I might wonder how he fares.

504
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,559
But I also think you could probably use him in

505
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,559
more ways, whereas Okay, Toronto set up to use him

506
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:54,960
in a specific way, but you can get him going

507
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,920
as a screener if you need to. I do trust

508
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,920
that the pull up and the jumpers come along enough

509
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,599
to where Okay, years from now, let's see where it's at.

510
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,200
I would probably still trust him to generate, like run

511
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,559
an offense over Jalen Williams. At this point it's close

512
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,400
the size positionally on defense, I think that helps out.

513
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,480
But we know that Jalen Williams takes jump balls now too,

514
00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:19,559
so how much does that actually matter? Slight margin here,

515
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,680
This is a good one from Real Serra twenty two

516
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,599
to nineteen. I'm gonna go Scottie Barnes.

517
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, no surprise, I'm going Williams. I just think, like

518
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,640
I don't have any questions about can Jalen Williams do

519
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,960
X you might say, like can he run a good

520
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,599
offense alone? I just think his shooting ability makes that

521
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,480
more plausible. Like I guess talking like number one option

522
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:48,759
type stuff, like I think he's a more he's better

523
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:51,200
suited to be a number one option than Barnes is

524
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,480
because of the shooting. Barnes might be more defensively versatile,

525
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,319
might be a better passer. I don't know. I just

526
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,799
Williams just doesn't have a weakness and Barnes the shooting

527
00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:05,240
is gonna be an issue unless he just plays center

528
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:07,160
all the time or you have you like, you have

529
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,720
to tailor some things to Barnes. I think where Williams

530
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,359
you don't at all really like, And that's kind of

531
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,240
been the knock on him. I guess is that like, yeah,

532
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,200
Williams fits everywhere, but doing the Pallo comparison, for example,

533
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,200
which we might do at some point. I didn't scrutinize

534
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:22,720
the list, but.

535
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,079
Speaker 1: I actually you don't think we have that one. Sorry

536
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,039
grant you. I'm really scared.

537
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,759
Speaker 2: Of having to decide that one now. I think Williams

538
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,680
is just like a flaw free player that actually can

539
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:37,079
be a number one option. He's grown so much year

540
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,440
over year that that's like plausible to me, And I

541
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,079
don't know that that's true of Barnes. And I do

542
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,920
know it's true of Barnes that like you got to

543
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,920
figure out is what to do with the guy that

544
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,920
doesn't shoot it great? You know consistently that that's that's

545
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,200
kind of the differentiator for me.

546
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: You might have swayed me. I don't know that that

547
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,720
has a good one. It's close.

548
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,799
Speaker 2: I'll concede that, Oh, you have to give me this one.

549
00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: God damn, yeah, you have to give me this one.

550
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:03,559
Speaker 2: Okay, good via Alejandro, I'll go Shay Gil just Alexander

551
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,400
Dan or Jason Tatum.

552
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go. I. So I will say that Jason

553
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,640
Tatum has a stronger case here than many might be

554
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,960
willing to give him. And if you like kind of

555
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,000
break down what the two of them are doing, just

556
00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:22,960
specifically this season, the numbers really aren't terribly different. Shay's

557
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,839
at twenty nine a half points per game six point

558
00:26:24,839 --> 00:26:27,039
four assists, Tatum's at five point eight assists and twenty

559
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:29,680
eight point four points per game. He is the better,

560
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:33,519
more willing three point shooter. They're averaging the same number

561
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:36,119
of free throw attempts per game. Jason Tatum's doing it

562
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,119
in more minutes. Shay, I do think is going to

563
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,200
be craftier on the ball. They've probably become close defensively,

564
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:47,680
like there with Shaye was getting all defense buzz last year.

565
00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:52,440
I don't know what to do here. It's so interesting

566
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:55,319
because Shay is of right now is a player that's

567
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,640
more likely to win MVP in any given season. If

568
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,319
you rip Shay out of the com like the construct

569
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,599
of Oklahoma City and put them on a team where

570
00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:07,599
there are like other a plus guys, I'd be curious

571
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,720
to see what he looks like. Oh, I don't know,

572
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:15,559
I'm going Shay, I try. I do think he's probably

573
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,200
more of a primary playmaker overall, And I think that

574
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,319
if you even put him in a situation where there are

575
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:21,880
I know you said that you think John Williams can

576
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,880
be a number one option right now, Olahoma City just

577
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,960
doesn't have anyone who creates advantages like even close to

578
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,319
it like Jaln Williams isn't. Yeah, he can get to

579
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:33,200
to the ball, but it's not like in a way

580
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,119
of a tried and true number two just yet. And

581
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,039
the fact that Shay still is doing what he does.

582
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,480
I'm gonna go with him. I think he has ways.

583
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:45,000
The biggest difference for me though, is I think he

584
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:47,640
has more ways to score than Jason Tatum. I think

585
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,680
Jason Dam's comes a long way as to score, but

586
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:52,759
he is so reliant on kind of the escapism from

587
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:55,839
three point range. Yeah, that I'm gonna go with SGA.

588
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's brutal. And they're such different offensive players, but

589
00:28:02,079 --> 00:28:04,119
like equally, And it is hard to get past the

590
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,960
idea that like Shae is gonna be and has been

591
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,759
closer to winning MVP than Tatum, and like shouldn't and

592
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:14,119
they're the same age, they're both seventeen, No, they're both

593
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,960
twenty six, So like, shouldn't that decide it? Right? And

594
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:20,759
I think and but then measured against that, and this

595
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,599
is also unfair. We and I'm more guilty of this

596
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,319
than you. We we've seen Tatum do it and win

597
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,480
a championship, Like we've seen that happen. Now, Jalen Brown

598
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:34,359
was Finals MVP, so you might want to throw that

599
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,640
in there. I don't like so, but SGA has not

600
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,599
done it yet. I don't know that it's fair to

601
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,759
hold it against him because the Celtics team that's around.

602
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:44,319
Tatum is just has been better over the you know,

603
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:47,440
the last couple of years. I'm just I'm just vamping

604
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,200
because I can't decide. I I think I probably I

605
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,279
gotta go Tatum, while conceding that again this year Shaye

606
00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:00,640
will probably be ahead of him an MVP vote.

607
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,839
Speaker 1: I don't know that he will be. Like if you're

608
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,119
not respecting what the Celtics are doing, I mean, Jason

609
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,440
Tatum's passing over the past. He's also he's the wing

610
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:11,319
sized player that we're all supposed to to come it.

611
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,519
I think I just feel like there's more variance in

612
00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:18,640
his offensive performance regular season postseason than there will be

613
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,680
for SGA, And so I'm going that. But if this

614
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:22,000
is the toughest one yet.

615
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: A couple couple of other things too. Durability might be

616
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,039
a factor. Now the thunder have like shut Shaye down

617
00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:29,440
a couple of times, so like was he?

618
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: How hurt was he?

619
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:32,799
Speaker 2: But Tatum is a rock like play seventy plus games

620
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,640
just like clockwork, basically certainly over the last few years.

621
00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:38,640
And I think, like, I think it is a fair

622
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,599
criticism that Tatum is less offensively like diverse, like he

623
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,960
can't you can't match him up against anyone like you

624
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,079
can with Shae, And you're like, well, Shay's gonna get

625
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:50,920
into the lane and make something happen. Tatum will like

626
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:53,920
faint and move around and try to get a three off.

627
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:56,920
But then are we just making the criticism of like, oh,

628
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,079
he's too good, he could get to that three too easily,

629
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:02,759
and it's like a bailout, Like I'm hesitant to make

630
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:04,920
it a criticism of someone that can get a three

631
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,240
off at any time, you know, and.

632
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,519
Speaker 1: Right, but I still think does the best version of

633
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:15,519
Tatum uplift a squad with less overall talent around him

634
00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:18,720
than the best version of Shay would? And then I

635
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:20,960
do think the answer is no. But then what you

636
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,599
could say is will Shae be as scalable if you

637
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,079
put him on the Celtics? Would he be as good?

638
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,640
And I honestly like the answer is yes. I mean

639
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,880
he can do some more things away from the ball.

640
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,799
He's not a terrible shooter. We've seen him go through

641
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:35,480
spurs and look the problem with him again, this is

642
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,839
the value of Tatum. But like it's not like Shae

643
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,839
gets all these spot up opportunities, right like nol generated

644
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:42,440
threes are tough, and it feels like that's why he

645
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,279
might back off of those. That's what Tatum's doing as well.

646
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:48,799
It feels like there should be no wrong answer, but

647
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:51,519
there someone's gonna it's I think it's good that we disagree,

648
00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:52,480
but it's close.

649
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:54,519
Speaker 2: It is super close. Yeah, that's a great that's a

650
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,039
I mean, yeah, really really good comp.

651
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:00,559
Speaker 1: Next up, mister Hughes, who you take for the next

652
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,720
five years, LaMelo Ball or Darn Fox? We have two

653
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,880
people submit this exact same one, and I will preface

654
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,000
it with this, does mean I think that a run

655
00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:11,039
of LaMelo ball ors are are are coming.

656
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:16,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, So obviously Fox has a much longer track record.

657
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,240
He's had his injury issues too, but like, we're not

658
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,200
talking about a guy that we basically didn't see for

659
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,640
two years. And LaMelo's numbers this season are bonkers, like,

660
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,640
you know, a thirty a game, tons of assists. He's

661
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,960
also like shooting a lot, like just you know, getting numbers.

662
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:37,519
So I think, you know, the the arrow feels like

663
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:39,519
it's pointing up on ball. But with that comes the

664
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:43,599
pushback of like his defense is just atrocious, Like he's

665
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,519
fouling out all the time. He's never you watch the games, like,

666
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:49,880
forget the numbers, he's never in a defensive stance, like

667
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,440
he's just is standing up reaching, like it's really damaging defensively.

668
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,599
And if you are your team's best player, which he obviously,

669
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:01,240
I mean Brandon Miller is very good, but Ball just

670
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:05,200
sort of is the key figure on that team. I

671
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,480
think it's a real problem if you're just not giving

672
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,240
a shit defensively, and then there is all the criticism.

673
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:12,519
But how mature is he? How serious is he? Like

674
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:16,000
all that stuff. I think Fox has been inconsistent. We've

675
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,079
seen him be really great defensively in the past and

676
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:20,839
then not so much. I never really feel like Fox

677
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:23,559
just doesn't compete though, And I think you can make

678
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:27,440
that criticism of Ball. So give me the longer track record,

679
00:32:28,119 --> 00:32:31,079
the how many one, two, three, four years? Four of

680
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:35,039
the last five years over twenty five a game Fox

681
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,400
has been to the playoffs has had some success, Like

682
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:41,160
I think it's durable, more durable. I think it's Fox.

683
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:46,319
But if you do, if you believe Ball has a

684
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,440
step to go in the next five years and is

685
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,559
willing to do it, like defensively and just from a

686
00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:54,720
professionalism standpoint, that second part's unfair, but like that is

687
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,759
a criticism that's out there, then I could see going

688
00:32:57,799 --> 00:32:59,720
with Ball. I think Fox is just way safer.

689
00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: He's way safer, But I also just think he's better.

690
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,799
I think that you might be under selling the If

691
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,200
LaMelo puts together an entire season of doing what he's

692
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,960
doing now without getting hurt, his case becomes stronger. But

693
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:14,240
the defense is a huge differentiator, plus the durability. And

694
00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:16,480
I think, look, Fox has shown Look at the way

695
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,599
he's scored, like in tight spaces with Sacramento and even now,

696
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,599
like the way he's shooting with both Damar and the

697
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,440
Bonus on the court, I think he was still shooting

698
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,119
like sixty percent from two d. This dude just finds

699
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:28,160
ways to score. This This step back is more of

700
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,240
a weapon. I know some people don't like it than

701
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,359
is credited. I think it's him That was a good one,

702
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,119
though from Braden. It was gn underscore. The Spicer with

703
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,119
the second one that we got it from. Hit me

704
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,680
with this one, mister Hughes.

705
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: Okay, you've got LaMelo. This is from via Oz ten

706
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,799
LaMelo again or Palo Bancaro.

707
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,359
Speaker 1: It's Palo right, I mean the defense here again is

708
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:51,400
a big differentiator. Palo's better on defense. LaMelo Ball is

709
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,640
the better passer, He's the better outside scorer. But like

710
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:56,880
even with LaMelo kind of getting to the line more,

711
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,960
doing a little bit more on drives, the way that

712
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,200
Palo is able to score now, the efficiency is still

713
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,119
gonna be a big deal. Where it's we're finally before

714
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:06,880
he's getting injured. This is someone who he's gonna hover

715
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,400
around or a lot, like slightly higher than league average

716
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,519
for shooting percentage. But it was like what he does

717
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:14,920
on offense, Like the advantages that he creates are just

718
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,880
taking the tough shots, drawing in defenders. If you gave

719
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,360
him even a modicom of good spacing, I think we're

720
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,039
probably talking about a much more efficient Palo than we've

721
00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:28,719
even seen. This one's pretty easy for me. I'm going

722
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:29,519
Pallow here.

723
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: I think it's Pallo and like, yeah, we're going off

724
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,320
the leap he made this year as a five game sample,

725
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,519
but I do think within them last year though, too, right,

726
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,400
So that's what I mean. It's like the the and

727
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,960
he might have a potential superpower as a foul drawer,

728
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,519
which is just like Okay, he's going to be a

729
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:49,760
hyper efficient scorer if he shoots thirty two percent from three,

730
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,400
because he's gonna get He was getting to the foul

731
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,760
in twelve times a game and just like wh why

732
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,159
yeah right, that's pretty good. Uh watching him play like

733
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,760
he's just his physical advantages are just like undeniable. He's

734
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,360
he's so like adept with the ball and knows how

735
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,679
to use his size and strength at an early at

736
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:11,119
an age where guys like are still usually figuring that out.

737
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,639
You know, I just think he's going to be just

738
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,360
he's a number one option on a good potentially a

739
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,840
good offense if you put spacing around him, which Orlando

740
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,559
still hasn't done. LaMelo is like what's if Like what's

741
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:27,679
the what's the matchup problem that LaMelo creates right where

742
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:29,159
It's like with Palo it's like who do you put

743
00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:31,440
on this guy? And with LaMelo it's like, I don't know,

744
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:33,440
just put like your wing on him and that's about

745
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,159
as good as you can do and he'll either make

746
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:37,679
a bunch of threes or not and you know, get

747
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:39,360
into the l It's just like Palo is such a

748
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:40,840
bigger problem. I feel like.

749
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: Another Palo ban Caro one oh grant from jt Alexander,

750
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,480
Palo ben Caro or Caid Cunningham.

751
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,159
Speaker 2: So I think I go Pallo again while acknowledging that

752
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,960
Caid is just quietly becoming one of the most complete

753
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,960
players in the league. Uh just has gotten better defensively.

754
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,960
Is obviously like can score can be a facilitator. It

755
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:07,519
just is is really like it's kind of the Jalen

756
00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:11,599
Williams thing, plus like more playmaking, like natural playmaking, chops

757
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:15,079
and stuff where it's like, what's the guy's weakness. I

758
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:19,239
still think Polo strikes me as a guy who's just

759
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,559
going to be more overwhelming and it's not fair. But

760
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:26,960
from a team's success standpoint, we've just seen Polo be

761
00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:29,519
the lead on a good team and we haven't seen

762
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:32,119
Kid do it. That's because the team they've put around

763
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:34,239
him has been just ill fitting from the tell.

764
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: The Pistons have I think already won more games than

765
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,800
they did by the trade deadline.

766
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,199
Speaker 2: They have and they did it by like adding Malik

767
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,159
Beasley and Tobias Harris. It's like, how low is the

768
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:47,280
bar to put it again? We keep saying this, this

769
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,079
is close, but I just think Paolo has the capacity

770
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:52,760
to be like, you can't do anything with him.

771
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,079
Speaker 1: So what's interesting is I think that one kid is

772
00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:59,039
somehow still underrated because the word you mentioned is complete.

773
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:00,320
This is going to be someone who he's one of

774
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,320
the most complete players in the game, but he doesn't.

775
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,239
The other words you use was overwhelming if you scale

776
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,000
ahead to the playoffs, Like Kate and I don't have

777
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,480
a problem, some people have a problem that he's like

778
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,639
he shows his explosion sometimes, but it's not consistent enough.

779
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,519
Palo's going to find ways to score in literally any setting.

780
00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:21,119
We've seen him playing some dog shit spacing units with Orlando.

781
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,400
He's still gonna find ways score. Won't always be efficient,

782
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:25,719
but the offense is probably gonna be better off for it,

783
00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:28,360
even if it's just making life easier on a player

784
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,440
or two that's beneath him in the pecking order. I

785
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,239
don't know if Caid will ever have that same gear

786
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,199
as a score. He's certainly never going to be the

787
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,760
same foul drawer, And just like is he gonna have

788
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,639
the ability to put pressure on the basket the way

789
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:44,880
that Paalo can. I the completeness of Kid really comes

790
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,159
close here, but I think it's Palo for me too. Yeah,

791
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,840
next up who we got?

792
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 2: Oh man? Uh so this is from Brian Spork again,

793
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,000
Palo Bancaro or Chet Holmgren.

794
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I think it's Paalo. You I know

795
00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:03,119
he I Chet is far more plug and play. He's

796
00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:05,920
better defensively. But and I know that this is counterintuited

797
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,599
because Paloll's dealing with an oblique injury, but he is

798
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:12,599
the more durable player to this point. Now. I think

799
00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:15,519
what is interesting, though, is that both of these guys,

800
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,199
like Chet, you could put anywhere, and Palell feels like

801
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,320
more of a player that you need to uniquely build around.

802
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:26,079
But I also think that he's worth building around in

803
00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:29,440
that way. Now, if you believe, you know, the spacing

804
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,599
and the driving from Chet on offense, plus the defense,

805
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:34,239
which again he's better than Palo there, you can play

806
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,440
Chet at center. Palell you could play at center too,

807
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,519
but you would prefer not to. I'm always going to

808
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:42,920
appreciate the player who I believe can shoulder a more

809
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,519
complicated offensive workload. And despite the strides that Chet has

810
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:51,639
made the durability here, I I'm going Palo. What I

811
00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:53,360
feel terrible about all these answers?

812
00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 2: I know I do too, and I was just trying

813
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,320
to think, like, Okay, so what transitive property? I took

814
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,639
Chet over more? And if I take Palo over Chet,

815
00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:03,920
does that I mean I also take Palo over mobilely,

816
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,960
how do I feel about that? I think you hit

817
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,159
it right. It's the scalability question which begets the The

818
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:14,519
real question is like do you think Polo is good

819
00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:19,119
enough to be the number one option? Like that he

820
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,400
sort of has to be, Whereas you're right with Chet,

821
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,679
it's like, Okay, maybe he's just your your stretch five

822
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,280
that block shots, or maybe and maybe there's more offense,

823
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,920
you know, individual offensive like capability ahead for Chet. I

824
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,559
still I go Paalo too, And I think it's just

825
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:40,800
because I do believe he's worth building around as a

826
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,159
as like a central figure. And I don't know that

827
00:39:43,519 --> 00:39:45,920
if I wouldn't feel that confident about like Chet is

828
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,320
my best player, I build around him like you could

829
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,519
do that, but then we probably get into like do

830
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:53,760
we need someone who's better than Chet on this team?

831
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,480
Whereas if you have Poalo there, I think you feel

832
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,559
pretty good projecting forwards like he's our best guy and

833
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:02,119
we're fit stuff around him. We don't need someone better

834
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:04,079
than him, you know, that that's kind of where it

835
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:04,519
gets to me.

836
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: It's also why I just want Orlando to have another

837
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,000
initiator aside from like the Franz Wagner Anthony Black types

838
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:11,719
right now is to see what Palo might look like

839
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,760
in the play finishing aspect. But I do believe, and

840
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,800
I'm not saying swap them on their teams. I'm just saying,

841
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,639
if you put Palo ben Caro on this iteration of

842
00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:23,280
the Thunder, are they as good or better than the

843
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,639
Thunder with Chet Holmgrin.

844
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,559
Speaker 2: I mean, you lose something, You lose the length and

845
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:31,960
the defense. But I guess if you have Hartenstein, you're

846
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,840
feeling pretty good. And Chet doesn't make the Magic any better,

847
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,079
that's for sure, because he just kind.

848
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: Of even saying put him on the Magic because that's

849
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,079
just like a disngener. I'm just saying, like, because Oklahoma

850
00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:47,239
City is the ultimate team where it's you want to work, like,

851
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,960
concern yourself with scalability, Like they give you this spacing.

852
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,559
They have two guys who can create advantages and Sga

853
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:55,119
and Jane Williams consistently. They have a bunch of surrounding

854
00:40:55,199 --> 00:40:58,320
versatile defensive talent. Maybe on the smaller side. So if

855
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,800
you doubt Palo's ability to optimize that group or fit

856
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,360
in and make them better than they are now with

857
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,400
the CHET home grind, that might then answer your question

858
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,119
of well, perhaps it should be CHET unless the doorability

859
00:41:09,199 --> 00:41:09,960
is the bigger concern.

860
00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a factor too. That, man, another tough one.

861
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,880
I think it's it's Paalo. We got to take the

862
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:15,800
number one option.

863
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: I think grant Joelle Embiid or Zion Williamson. And this

864
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,800
comes from d knits.

865
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 2: Five years five years, we have Embiid or Zion? Uh,

866
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,559
how much younger is is Zion? Like a full five

867
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:31,960
years younger? Four years younger?

868
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: I know you, I remember I like I remember being

869
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,480
shocked at how often he was in the under twenty

870
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:38,639
three list. For so he's twenty four and doesn't turn

871
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:39,719
twenty five until July.

872
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,519
Speaker 2: I man, this is the worst possible time to be

873
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:49,360
doing this because they're both They're both like basically in

874
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,960
the worst case scenario state where Embiid just seems like

875
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,440
he's broken down and Zion has a hamstring that is

876
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,159
never going to get healthy because he's not in shape.

877
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:59,559
It looks like, uh, I.

878
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: Guess you're gonna blame the hamstring stuff because I am

879
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,519
not in shape? Is what you believe? Is that what's

880
00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:05,440
floating around out.

881
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,159
Speaker 2: There blaming the him? No, I think like I think

882
00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:11,280
it's just really difficult for him to not put a

883
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,000
lot of strain on his body because of how difficult

884
00:42:14,039 --> 00:42:15,599
it seems to be for him to get into like

885
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:16,800
peak shape.

886
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,119
Speaker 1: Yeahbide has no problem with that, right.

887
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,039
Speaker 2: That's the thing. It's like anything you could say about

888
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:22,079
one applies to the other.

889
00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: Here.

890
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: Do you just go Embiid because he's his his high

891
00:42:28,679 --> 00:42:31,840
is higher than Zion's ever been, which like he's been

892
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,599
an MVP, he's been a point per minute guy, even

893
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:38,199
at like pretty clearly last year, not one hundred percent physically,

894
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:42,159
And then I think I go Embiid. I've seen Embiid

895
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:45,400
be better than Zion's ever been. I don't have any

896
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,320
confidence in either of them staying healthy going forward. Embid

897
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,559
being older is scary. But I also don't know what

898
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,639
a good team built around Zion looks like because it's

899
00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:57,000
just we've never seen it, and Embiid I have proof

900
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,159
of concept. Uh so I'll go Embiid, But like this

901
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,599
is just I mean, can I take the field or.

902
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:07,519
Speaker 1: Can I take me either? Can we take ben Caaro

903
00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:08,440
here too? Yeah?

904
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 2: Right, let's keep going Palo every time.

905
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:13,519
Speaker 1: I'm going with Embiid as well. The age difference is

906
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:16,719
big because it's but you've seen you mentioned it, the

907
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,519
peak of Embiid. But I also let's assume that they're

908
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:21,360
both going to be healthy. Now, then you get into

909
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,440
age questions and it's Zion's not even gonna be thirty

910
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,719
by the time this five year windows over. Jooby's gonna

911
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,079
be in his mid thirties at that point. I think

912
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:30,760
what's the bigger difference for me is that even with

913
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,000
peak Zion and you can fall at the Pelicans, they're

914
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:36,000
not doing it yet. We just mentioned players with Palo

915
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:39,480
is more specific to build around. Zion poses those same

916
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:41,760
challenges like Embiid not only have we seen his peak,

917
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,320
but like we've seen him on a bunch of different

918
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,440
iterations of really good sixers teams, and so if he's healthy,

919
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,440
you don't necessarily have to think as much about the

920
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,159
talent around him as you do with Zion.

921
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's scary though, because like I caught myself thinking,

922
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,800
like what if it's just sort of over for Embiid right,

923
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,719
like what the what if the knees are never getting better?

924
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:02,920
But then it's like, well, what if it's over for Zion.

925
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,079
Speaker 1: We want to say that for a longer Sixers discussion,

926
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:08,079
but I actually do believe that people are being way

927
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:10,840
too alarmist here with oh embeied and this. Look, we

928
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,599
just have evidence again that Okay, yes it's weird, it

929
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:16,960
sucks that he's out again, but like he takes a

930
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,039
while to ramp up. That has been the m O

931
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:21,880
with him all the time. So it's just the sit Look,

932
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,840
unless you think embiid is just done, which I guess

933
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,880
is not implausible, the Sixers are going to be fine.

934
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,039
It's just I can't we have too much evidence of

935
00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:34,679
this guy's gonna be dominant after a ramp up and

936
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,920
even when he's not healthy enough in the playoffs, like

937
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,800
look what he's still able to do in certain moments.

938
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:42,320
Now again, five years a long time. He's gonna be

939
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,920
in his mid thirties. But yeah, my overall Sixers thoughts,

940
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:51,119
I'm actually concerned at how unconcerned I remain about where.

941
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 2: I'm concerned about your lack of I know, I mean,

942
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,199
I think I think anytime everyone is burying a team,

943
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:58,519
which is pretty much what's happening. It's probably smart to

944
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:00,480
like say, all right, that's not as as bad as

945
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:03,760
it seems, but I would we we can have a

946
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,239
longer six Er discussion at some point. My concern would be, like, one,

947
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,440
you're right, it does. He does ramp up, like we've

948
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,119
seen it how many different years. I would be concerned

949
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:15,400
that the level that he is capable of ramping up

950
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,960
to is just lower now and like harder to sustain

951
00:45:18,159 --> 00:45:21,039
because you know, it's it's essentially like a degenerative condition,

952
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:23,199
like he's had so many Look think at his career

953
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,280
started with injury. He's fought them throughout. Like I think

954
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,559
at some point, like it's just impossible for him to

955
00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:35,199
reach a level where like your vision of the Sixers

956
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:38,119
comes together. And I'm not saying that's definitely now, but

957
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,199
like the what he can ramp up to eventually becomes

958
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:43,639
like not enough, I think because of the health stuff.

959
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: But it has to look if you have to think

960
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,480
that his knee is just done like that he's headed

961
00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:55,880
towards Kawhi Leonard availability moving forward. But otherwise, because even Zion,

962
00:45:56,119 --> 00:45:59,239
how much of his game is still prided on like

963
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,800
like his physics, not the physicality, but like the explosion

964
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,119
of it all right, And so that's more of a

965
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:07,440
tricky proposition than what we have with Embiid, who not

966
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,280
only we've seen him at some of his inferior versions

967
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,760
and he's still been good, like during last year's playoffs,

968
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,679
like he made a difference even though he wasn't always

969
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,320
at his best and playing on like one and a

970
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,119
half knees whatever, one and a half legs, whatever it

971
00:46:18,159 --> 00:46:22,119
ended up being. He also just he's not as reliant

972
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,639
on being like super quick and explosive, Like yeah, he

973
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,000
might slow you down to a detriment, but he's also

974
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:29,239
it's easier to build a supporting cast around him than

975
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,519
it is for That's.

976
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: The best argument I think is like a diminished Embiid

977
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,320
is still like can still do a lot of good

978
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,960
things physically or athletically. Diminished Zion is what like an

979
00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:43,679
undersized forward that can't shoot, Like That's that's rough.

980
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,159
Speaker 1: I do believe I'm going to hijack this stretch to

981
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:48,480
propose them to you, unless again I did randomize these,

982
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:50,400
I believe we're headed for a bunch of Zion ones.

983
00:46:50,559 --> 00:46:52,360
So I'm throwing them. I'm throwing them to you. Let's

984
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,199
see how many he can win grant next five years.

985
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:59,119
Zion Williamson or Alpa and Shangoon also from Casanada.

986
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: I think it's Shangoon. I recognize the defensive concerns that

987
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:07,519
have been there, the shooting concerns that have been there.

988
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,119
Shanngoon is just like talk about not being reliant on athleticism,

989
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,360
He's just like physically overpowers good Sengun just has so

990
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,320
many more skills. I think like, even if I don't

991
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,000
believe Shangoon can necessarily hit the like the peak Zion

992
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:25,360
levels that we saw for chunks of a couple of seasons,

993
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,760
he's just like I believe in him as like a

994
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,800
very good offensive hub on a good team. Don't know

995
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,719
if he can be your best player on a championship winner,

996
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,000
but I definitely know I don't believe Zion can be

997
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:36,599
that anymore.

998
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I look the stuff he's done the past. Well,

999
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,719
I guess like season plus since we're only a quarter

1000
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,480
the way through this one defensively, because we've seen peaks

1001
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:46,679
Ion on defense. Probably last year that stretch was the

1002
00:47:46,679 --> 00:47:49,760
best I've seen Zion defensively outside of Duke. That's great,

1003
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,280
But like now saying Shanggun has done it consistently on

1004
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,519
two elite defensive teams, basically I would love I mean,

1005
00:47:55,519 --> 00:47:57,719
I say it's about both of them. I would just

1006
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,679
love to see both these guys with better spacing, but

1007
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,840
Shang Food is more likely to play in those instances.

1008
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,599
I think he's the answer here as well. Next up,

1009
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:08,480
next five years. Zion Williamson or christophs Porzingis. That comes

1010
00:48:08,519 --> 00:48:15,400
from Nicolcha Kolev Man, do you find this one more interesting? It?

1011
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:18,639
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because well it's what we're doing, is like, I mean,

1012
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:22,719
obviously I don't Porzingis comes with plenty of health questions himself,

1013
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,079
and he's not and he's not gonna be your number

1014
00:48:25,159 --> 00:48:27,719
one or maybe even like number two on a really

1015
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:32,079
good team. I don't know, man, I guess so if

1016
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:34,280
I say Porzingis, I really do feel like we're then

1017
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,039
saying like Zion just kind of isn't he Like we're

1018
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:40,199
pretty much done thinking of him as like a difference maker. Okay,

1019
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,800
that makes me uncomfortable, right, because Porzingis is super valuable,

1020
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,239
Like to call him a role player is wrong because

1021
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,559
he's better than that. But like on the Celtics. That

1022
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:51,639
is what he is like. They ask him to do

1023
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,079
a handful of things, and he's good at those. I

1024
00:48:56,119 --> 00:48:59,639
think I go Porzingis because I know that if he's

1025
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:02,599
on the Lore, he's gonna give me the shooting and

1026
00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:05,800
the mismatch hunting post ups and the shop blocking. And

1027
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,639
that's gonna be true. If he becomes significantly less athletic

1028
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,079
with more injuries and with Zion, I just like, I

1029
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:14,360
don't know. I just don't know what I'm gonna get

1030
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,960
this one's this feels like we've gone too far, but

1031
00:49:18,039 --> 00:49:21,440
I'm still just the momentum. All Zion momentum is tough

1032
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:21,920
right now.

1033
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: I know what. I don't know when the last one

1034
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,400
is coming, but I do explicitly remember one of the

1035
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,199
commodations that will be if you pick the other player,

1036
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:33,119
that that'll be okay, we're out. I think I'm look Also,

1037
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,119
Chris tops isn't isn't young, says the thirty five year

1038
00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:39,719
old about the twenty nine year old, so that it's like, okay,

1039
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,199
so taking him through age thirty four with his injury history,

1040
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,320
but it's it's again the same thing with embiid, where

1041
00:49:44,639 --> 00:49:47,239
a reduced version of Christops Porzingis can be more plug

1042
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,880
and play, but the Pelks have never built a team. Orzion, Like,

1043
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,840
if you put Zion just on the Celtics, I think

1044
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,599
he could set screens and like finish and like capitalize

1045
00:49:55,599 --> 00:49:57,599
on mismatches. Now he doesn't have the shooting, not the

1046
00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:02,280
same rim protector. Christops is definitely more play overall, I'm

1047
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,480
gonna go Zion. I'm gonna bet on the youth here

1048
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:06,079
and give me the player that I think can be

1049
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,360
the driving force of a really good team rather than

1050
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,800
someone who Look, if we're talking about just this season,

1051
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,079
it's Christops, like, it's just especially now Zion's not playing

1052
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:17,960
and Christops came back earlier and someone expected the longer

1053
00:50:18,039 --> 00:50:20,400
term window. It doesn't give me confidence, But I'm gonna

1054
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,920
roll the dice on Zion here, Zion Williamson or Jamal Murray.

1055
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,199
That one comes from real Syrup twenty two to nineteen.

1056
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: Man. Again, we're dealing with Murray at like such a

1057
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:37,519
low stock point and he's not like there's no evidence

1058
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:39,960
that Murray is a number one on a good team

1059
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,440
or even anything close to that or a bad team

1060
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,719
or bad like, how do you how do you he's

1061
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,840
such a hard player to evaluate because of the jokic

1062
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:47,480
of it all.

1063
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: Well, I'll say this for anyone who have if you

1064
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,559
put and this is in the conversation we're having, which

1065
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:56,920
team is better LaMelo Ball on this current Charlotte Hornets

1066
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,880
team or Jamal Murray on this current Charlotte Hornets team?

1067
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,519
Speaker 2: Well, why where did LaMelo Ball come into the come

1068
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:05,639
into the conversation just.

1069
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:08,039
Speaker 1: Saying because people are saying LaMelo Ball isn't a winner

1070
00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:10,039
and we see Jamal Murray win. But if you're looking

1071
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:12,400
for someone you're talking about, can he be like a

1072
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,159
higher end option on his own team? And to me,

1073
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,079
the answer is just no, because if you can put

1074
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:17,880
him on this version of the Hornets, I think they're

1075
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:18,480
way worse.

1076
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 2: You know what, maybe maybe this is where I assume

1077
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,760
this isn't the guy you said where if we pick

1078
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,320
the other player, it's really hard. I'm not that down

1079
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:32,119
on jam No, I mean I'm leaning Zion because like,

1080
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,960
I think we've seen the best of Murray and I

1081
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,239
don't know how good I mean he's been. You know what,

1082
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,000
was he the second best player on a title winner?

1083
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,639
Except like his first best player was general like an

1084
00:51:41,679 --> 00:51:45,320
all timer. Maybe maybe if you go Zion, you're just

1085
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,400
hoping you get a couple like Apex years somehow. But

1086
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,559
I just I'm not confident in that. I hate I'm

1087
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:52,639
gonna do it. I'm gonna take Murray even though, like

1088
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:55,440
I just it's for me. I just I can't trust

1089
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,840
the Zion is gonna be healthy and effective or anything

1090
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,000
close to what is best. You know, fractions of those

1091
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:00,800
two years.

1092
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: Was I'm gonna take Murray as well, actually, even though

1093
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,159
I just kind of jumped all over him because you

1094
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:06,239
just need to view it, Okay, can he be your

1095
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,559
two or your three and then you flesh out your

1096
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:11,760
team from there, whereas Zion, does it impact you because

1097
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,239
you're still clinging to the hope that well he needs

1098
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,440
to be our number one guy. And then again the

1099
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,480
reliance on the athleticism bit for me, Like, you know,

1100
00:52:18,519 --> 00:52:20,480
if Jamal Murray was like thirty one years old, this

1101
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:23,119
might be a different conversation. But what is twenty seven.

1102
00:52:23,159 --> 00:52:25,199
Speaker 2: This age twenty seven season right now for Murray?

1103
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go with Jamal Murray as well. It

1104
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,480
does bother me that he's been this uneven, like alongside

1105
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,239
and Nicole Jokic still like, that's definitely something to consider.

1106
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,480
Zion Williamson or Ben Simmons from d nitz, Who are

1107
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,840
you thinking for the next five one? And I'm I

1108
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,840
guess the lens through which we view this is, are

1109
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,400
you you just want out of the Zion Williamson business

1110
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,480
because Ben Simmons is an expiring contract and then super

1111
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:53,480
cheat moving forward?

1112
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't talked about contracts much with the within

1113
00:52:56,679 --> 00:52:59,039
our Zion run here I go Zion. I think like,

1114
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,880
I just don't know what role Ben Simmons plays on

1115
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,679
a team that's I mean, like the nets have been

1116
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:07,559
like shockingly good. I don't know how much Simmons it has.

1117
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:10,360
If anything to do with that is going to get fired, Yeah,

1118
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:13,960
do Good would do a good job. Get out of here. Uh,

1119
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:17,000
I think I think it's Zion. I just like Simmons.

1120
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:20,840
I think, uh, like, I don't know what he does

1121
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,760
for you that you need on a team that's like

1122
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,320
really sincerely trying to win.

1123
00:53:24,639 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: I really the passing and defense is still there, but.

1124
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 2: It's even though Dan like the passing is like how

1125
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,360
much does being a good passer mean? If you really

1126
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,639
just don't ever you have no intention of shooting the

1127
00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:38,280
ball right?

1128
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: No, I mean, here's the thing is, Zion Benjamins might

1129
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,159
be a better passer, but like Zion can pass in

1130
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:45,639
more than transition.

1131
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:50,599
Speaker 2: Right, Zion is this is understating it a threat to

1132
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:54,679
try to score. It's like Simmons is just zero interest.

1133
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: That one was the easy one and so ends the

1134
00:53:57,599 --> 00:53:58,800
Zion Williams in stretch.

1135
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 2: Can I give you this one my gold gaffer Joel

1136
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,079
Embiid or Bronnie James.

1137
00:54:07,159 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: Now, now I'm gonna take this seriously. Okay, I'm assuming

1138
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,280
that this is you want out of that. Joel Embiid

1139
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,800
isn't gonna be on that one ninety two million dollar extension.

1140
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,119
He is older, his knees are cooked, and it's I'd

1141
00:54:20,159 --> 00:54:22,360
rather clear up my books. Have the second round pick

1142
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:25,000
cap hold in Bronnie James, who will probably put butts

1143
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,599
in seats. And if we really want to view this,

1144
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,880
does it increase the chances that now you're we're assuming

1145
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,920
that the league guess is a blank slate that you

1146
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,880
get the last two years of lebron James's career because

1147
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,519
you have Bronnie. I'm still taking Embiid, but like if

1148
00:54:39,519 --> 00:54:41,320
you had to build the case like, that's it is.

1149
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,320
You don't want to pay Joel Embiid and Bronnie James

1150
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,159
will probably be a draw, not just for crowds, but

1151
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:50,400
for potentially his dad, who is still pretty good at basketball.

1152
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 2: I think the question is will Joel Embiid travel to

1153
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,039
road G League games? Is that it's like, is he

1154
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:57,639
gonna say no?

1155
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: And the Sixers implement that so he doesn't play back

1156
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,679
to backs and only plays at home. Oh yeah, there

1157
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:03,000
you go.

1158
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's probably Embeid. Uh. My

1159
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,519
very first thought too, by the way, was do I

1160
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:10,679
also get lebron if it's browny? Even then?

1161
00:55:11,599 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: How much does punctuality mean to you if it be

1162
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:17,400
late to everything? We haven't heard that about about Bronni.

1163
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: That's true. Uh, you know it's a factor. Do we

1164
00:55:23,039 --> 00:55:25,199
have any other browny ones that'd be interesting? No?

1165
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: That was it. That's why. That's why I included that one.

1166
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:31,840
This is mine for you Grant. Are you okay? Moses

1167
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,920
Moody or Lindy Waters? The third this is from sorry

1168
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:35,760
are they good? NBA?

1169
00:55:36,679 --> 00:55:39,559
Speaker 2: Did you know Lindy Waters has has played more minutes

1170
00:55:39,559 --> 00:55:42,159
per game and started more games than Moses Moody this year.

1171
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure you want to why I did that. I

1172
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,239
know that because Lindy Water is the third is a

1173
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,679
superstar hiding and plain sight.

1174
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: It's so true Lindy Waters is now. You know what

1175
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,559
would be interesting is like, who am I talking about?

1176
00:55:56,159 --> 00:55:59,039
I think he's a really well rounded, versatile, kind of

1177
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:02,480
got some two way skin bill, eighth seventh guy on

1178
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:05,159
a good team. You might think I was talking about

1179
00:56:05,199 --> 00:56:09,000
Lindy Waters. That's kind that's maybe true. The Warriors sure

1180
00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:12,480
seem to think so. Although I bring up the starting

1181
00:56:12,519 --> 00:56:15,239
thing because Waters has started a bunch since the Anthony

1182
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,000
Mountain went down for the season, and Steve Kerr does

1183
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:20,639
this where it's like he'll take a more like down

1184
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,400
rotation guy and put him into a role that's been vacated,

1185
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,360
so everybody else kind of stays in the same role.

1186
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:28,119
The problem is Moses Moody's role has always been too small.

1187
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:31,920
It's Moody. The Warriors invested in him. He's a better shooter,

1188
00:56:32,039 --> 00:56:34,039
he's a better defender, he's a more versatile.

1189
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, whoa WHOA hold on fact, he's a better shooter. Yeah,

1190
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,280
I don't look at the percentages. I don't care what

1191
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:48,840
First of all, numbers have no bearing. Fuck your facts. Look,

1192
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,000
I'm just saying I'm not. I'm not even say I'm

1193
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,119
gonna pick Lindy Waters. You look at the way he

1194
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:56,599
can fly around, in the level of difficulty on threes

1195
00:56:56,639 --> 00:56:58,960
that he could take. Yes, do you think Moses Moody

1196
00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:01,079
is capable? I'm not. I'm saying he's not. I just

1197
00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:04,679
you said it so offhandedly that I need I needed

1198
00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:05,159
to come.

1199
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: In trying to trigger you. It's it's Moody. I mean,

1200
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:14,760
like Waters, though Waters has to have, like what Waters

1201
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,159
has to catch on at more than the minimum somewhere

1202
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,880
right after after this year. Don't you think, like.

1203
00:57:20,199 --> 00:57:22,239
Speaker 1: Coming off of like a nine year deal that was

1204
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:23,400
a minimum or whatever it is.

1205
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,519
Speaker 2: I hope he does. He deserves it. Moody's already got

1206
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:34,440
his basically mid level extension. I just I think Moody.

1207
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,199
I don't know what Moody's ceiling is, but uh, it's

1208
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:38,719
I think it's a little higher than Waters.

1209
00:57:39,159 --> 00:57:41,119
Speaker 1: I'm picking Moody too. I just I don't think he's

1210
00:57:41,159 --> 00:57:43,320
the better shooter. Like if I just wanted someone to

1211
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,280
come and fly around and get up threes, I'm taking

1212
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,320
Lindy Waters. That's fair. We got next to mister Hughes.

1213
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 2: Okay ooh this is exciting Herb Jones or the guy

1214
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,559
making twice as much as him, Jade McDaniels.

1215
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably time to have a conversation about Jade

1216
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,159
McDaniel's being on one of the NBA's worst contracts, right,

1217
00:58:00,519 --> 00:58:03,880
what is it? Look, I was a fan of that extension,

1218
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,880
and I know what he's capable of doing defensively, but

1219
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,639
you got like Anthony Edwards has had to change his

1220
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:12,440
shot profile because Mike Comley's old. They traded for Julius

1221
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:15,400
Randall and above all the younger guy, and Jaden McDaniels

1222
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:18,880
is incapable of hitting enough threes to get defenses to

1223
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,840
respect him. And you can't pay someone all that money

1224
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:26,079
to be just worse than Herb Jones in a vacuum,

1225
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:28,519
Like that's what. Who's the better player right now? Jane

1226
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:30,440
mcdamils might be more durable, provided he's not going to

1227
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:34,239
injure himself by punching something, But I just it's Herb Jones,

1228
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:35,519
right it is? Yeah?

1229
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:39,239
Speaker 2: I mean like that that thirty nine three point shooting

1230
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,039
year for McDaniels really is is pulling a lot of weight.

1231
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: Here, given like extra two years of cost control on

1232
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,599
Herb Jones, and then I'll figure out how much money

1233
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,119
you have to pay him afford to play still be

1234
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:51,880
less than Jane McDaniels is making at that point. I look,

1235
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:54,280
j McDaniels could be really good. We saw him. He

1236
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,559
hit threes in the playoffs last year, but like he

1237
00:58:56,679 --> 00:59:01,119
is part of the Wolves's offensive problems that day. A

1238
00:59:01,159 --> 00:59:04,559
lot of the people are now re litigating a trade

1239
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:07,079
that's only a couple months old, and fairly so. But

1240
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:10,079
the Wolves look a lot different if Jane McDaniels is

1241
00:59:10,119 --> 00:59:12,199
actually a three and D player, which he is not.

1242
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like it really just can come down

1243
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:19,800
to cost, and it's just because like they're similar, you know,

1244
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,159
but like one costs less than the other, and it's

1245
00:59:24,199 --> 00:59:26,920
close enough to where that just kind of controls the conversation.

1246
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: Here's the other thing. New Orleans felt confident enough in

1247
00:59:29,519 --> 00:59:33,559
healthy Herb Jones that they decided how zero established centers

1248
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,480
and like the Minnesota Timberals just keeps stockpiling bigs. What

1249
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:37,920
does that say about Jane McDaniels.

1250
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: Right, he can't play center, Get him out of here.

1251
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: Ooh, okay, Jalen Brunton or Tyre's Haliburton grant. This comes

1252
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,119
from Austin, who I know. That's why you joined our discord.

1253
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:48,639
I know who you are. Austin is a pacerss fan.

1254
00:59:48,679 --> 00:59:49,559
So this feels like bait.

1255
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 2: It is a little bit, and it's it really feels

1256
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,039
targeted at me because I've said some outlandish stuff about

1257
00:59:55,039 --> 00:59:59,360
Haliburton that might have involved Steve Nash. I think it's

1258
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:00,440
Brunton when.

1259
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: We were doing the two K exercise. There's a plug.

1260
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,000
Go check out that video. You said exact words verbatim

1261
01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:08,760
back when tyrese Haliburton used to be good. That is

1262
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:09,639
a direct quote.

1263
01:00:10,719 --> 01:00:14,519
Speaker 2: It's Brunson a contract. Let's talk about the contract. That's one.

1264
01:00:14,639 --> 01:00:17,400
I mean he's older than Halliburton, so that maybe you

1265
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:22,400
price in some decline sooner. Brunson is just like I

1266
01:00:22,519 --> 01:00:25,239
just don't have any questions about his toughness, his leadership,

1267
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,239
his ability to score against any kind of defense, to

1268
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,119
his ability to shoulder a load from a scoring and

1269
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:34,639
like just ball control perspective that Haliburton hasn't been asked to.

1270
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,360
But I don't know that there's you can count on

1271
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,199
one hand the number of guys in the league that

1272
01:00:39,239 --> 01:00:41,039
could take on what Brunson has had to take on

1273
01:00:41,239 --> 01:00:46,000
and like performed well. So I think it's Brunson. You

1274
01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:48,840
could argue Haliburton has the higher ceiling over the next

1275
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,880
five years, but I just Brunson seems so safe to

1276
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,039
me that I gotta go with him.

1277
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Brunton as well, pretty much for

1278
01:00:55,559 --> 01:00:57,679
all that you said. And look, the contract has to

1279
01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:00,280
be a big factor here. I do I do under

1280
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,280
how much recency bias is being kicked in because that

1281
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,639
contributes to why Brunton looks like a contractual steal. And

1282
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:09,599
not that I think Haliburton's an albatross, But if Haliburton

1283
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:12,280
just stays the player he was for the first quarter

1284
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,400
of last season or whatever, we're probably not even having

1285
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:15,079
this discussion.

1286
01:01:15,079 --> 01:01:18,239
Speaker 2: No we're not. I mean we're well, I mean, yeah, no,

1287
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,599
we're not, because Haliburton would be viewed as just like

1288
01:01:20,639 --> 01:01:23,440
this ascending superstar, be all end all off like.

1289
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,719
Speaker 1: Cause, even if Brunson was still coming off the top

1290
01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:29,079
five finish and MVP, the age difference would have to matter.

1291
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,800
What is he twenty eight, twenty nine, So he's getting

1292
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,280
up he's getting up there, my god, But you have

1293
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,119
to price that into the next five years of right now,

1294
01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:41,840
the answer should be Jellen Brunson. But if Haliburton, if

1295
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:43,559
we weren't so concerned about the health and just the

1296
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:48,320
uneven performance over the past close to a year, I

1297
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:49,920
think that opens the door for this to be a

1298
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:51,440
pretty easy bruntson pick.

1299
01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so. All Right, Dan Hayden, Hayden

1300
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,000
and sons, Scottie Barnes or alburn Shingoon. That's a good one.

1301
01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:06,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a good one. Fuck, I'm gonna lean

1302
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:10,559
Scotty here. I don't like get I don't know Shane

1303
01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:13,119
Goon is. I'm just I'm wondering what does Shane Goon

1304
01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:16,320
look like if the Rockets don't have the best assembly

1305
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,639
of perimeter defenders in the league, like kind of in front.

1306
01:02:20,519 --> 01:02:25,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like their scalability questions with both right,

1307
01:02:25,719 --> 01:02:28,679
or like or plug and play or like how portable

1308
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,800
are either of these guys, And and we've only ever

1309
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,639
seen each of them play for one team, so it's

1310
01:02:34,639 --> 01:02:36,760
not like we've got a lot of different versions. I

1311
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,280
guess you could say Barnes, you know, so early in

1312
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,679
his career. But he's been on a team with Fred

1313
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,280
van Vliet and and siakam and og and like the.

1314
01:02:46,039 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: Shane Goon's been on a team with Fred van Vliet.

1315
01:02:49,639 --> 01:02:51,719
Speaker 2: Let's see, maybe that's the answer. Who's been better with

1316
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,280
Fred van Vliet. That's that's our control in the sub

1317
01:02:55,119 --> 01:02:57,480
You're going, Scotty, huh.

1318
01:02:57,079 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm leaning Scotty. I I feel like I'm underrating what

1319
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:03,519
Shang Gooon can do on offense because the Rockets still

1320
01:03:03,559 --> 01:03:05,559
just don't have great spacing around him, and he's just

1321
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,679
like he's able. I hate to bring up the Yolkic

1322
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:09,639
comps because I think that they're way off, but like

1323
01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:11,840
he can still just it's never gonna be it's not

1324
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,239
gonna be as flashy, but like he wants to lower

1325
01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:16,000
his shoulder and kind of like back you down from

1326
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,639
the three point line and score, like he'll figure out

1327
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:18,239
a way to do it.

1328
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, it's kind of like is the Jokic comp

1329
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,199
is wrong? And then the Sabonis comp is also kind

1330
01:03:25,239 --> 01:03:28,679
of wrong because because Shang Gun is such a like

1331
01:03:28,719 --> 01:03:31,960
a more versatile interior scorer, Like talk about lowering your shoulder,

1332
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:35,119
Sabonis can do that, and Sabonis has got the handoff

1333
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:37,679
game and is really willing passer. I think most of

1334
01:03:37,719 --> 01:03:40,000
the very good things you'd say about Sabonis are true.

1335
01:03:40,119 --> 01:03:43,519
Shanggun like plus just more craft maybe and.

1336
01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 1: Like, sorry, here's what's interesting. Shang Gun is gonna be

1337
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:51,159
on a below MAX deal rightward versus Scotty is gonna

1338
01:03:51,159 --> 01:03:53,280
be on the MAX. I'm wondering if I should just

1339
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,119
cop out and say that that's going to shift it

1340
01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:57,920
for me. I just I'm going with I'm gonna bet.

1341
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,440
I think Scotty has it could be a comparable ceiling

1342
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,119
on offense because I trust that he'll be more of

1343
01:04:04,159 --> 01:04:06,480
a spot up jumper threat than Shangun from beyond the

1344
01:04:06,559 --> 01:04:09,559
art moving forward, And then I do if you put

1345
01:04:09,639 --> 01:04:12,599
him in certain spacing environments, I think the playmaking is there,

1346
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,880
Shang Gun will be the better offensive player. But I

1347
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,199
think that Scotty in a vacuum is gonna wind up

1348
01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:21,000
offsetting a lot more of that on the defensive end

1349
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:22,159
over the next five years.

1350
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's right.

1351
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: I don't.

1352
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: I don't love either of them as as like my

1353
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,519
best player. I think I think that's but but.

1354
01:04:30,519 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is but it gets down to specifics.

1355
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,119
Is I might feel better about Shane gun is my

1356
01:04:36,199 --> 01:04:39,119
best player because of what that can do for my offense,

1357
01:04:39,199 --> 01:04:42,400
But I trust Scotty in more situations.

1358
01:04:42,599 --> 01:04:45,599
Speaker 2: I think that, Yeah, I guess I'll ah man, I'm

1359
01:04:45,639 --> 01:04:48,480
gonna go Shangun. I think I think it's super close.

1360
01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:51,480
I I like, I'm comfortable with him as a hub.

1361
01:04:51,719 --> 01:04:53,760
I'm comfortable with him as an offensive hub you can

1362
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:58,039
surround with shooting in defense. Barnes, I think, to me

1363
01:04:58,239 --> 01:05:01,679
feels like just a more The defense is such a

1364
01:05:01,679 --> 01:05:05,400
factor and the like length and the versatility. But I

1365
01:05:05,639 --> 01:05:08,719
think I can understand. I understand what a very good

1366
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:11,119
team built around Shangun looks like because we're looking at

1367
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:14,719
it and and with a ton of upside if a

1368
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,199
bunch more of those rockets guys could shoot it. Whereas

1369
01:05:17,239 --> 01:05:19,239
with Barnes, I don't really know what it looks like

1370
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,440
with him as a hub, and that makes me uncomfortable,

1371
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,079
and then the cost maybe breaks the tie.

1372
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: Next up grant for the next five years, would you

1373
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,639
prefer to have Dearn Fox or Tyrese MAXI? This one

1374
01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:30,679
comes from oz ten.

1375
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:35,079
Speaker 2: So, so the next five years are probably going to

1376
01:05:35,159 --> 01:05:39,039
include a really big non fun Max for Fox. So

1377
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:43,039
I think you have to factor that, Yeah, Maxy, these

1378
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:47,400
younger Maxi is not as good of a defender. Maxi

1379
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,079
is a better shooter a man.

1380
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: Fox is a better playmaker right like he ways.

1381
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:58,199
Speaker 2: For sure, I think I go I think I go Fox.

1382
01:05:59,239 --> 01:06:02,039
It's very close for the reasons I mentioned. But and

1383
01:06:02,119 --> 01:06:03,920
I've already said a lot of good things about Fox

1384
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:08,039
on the what do we compare with little Mellow? Maybe, Yeah,

1385
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:11,639
it's that Maxi's youth and potential upside because Fox kind

1386
01:06:11,639 --> 01:06:13,239
of is what he is right at this point, like

1387
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,760
he's in his mid twenties, late twenties now was he

1388
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,719
twenty seven? I think? But I think that level is

1389
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,760
one that maybe Maxie reaches, maybe he doesn't. From like

1390
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,119
an all around contributor perspective, Fox is just Fox is safe,

1391
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,960
I think, And it's not like Maxie's cheap at the moment.

1392
01:06:30,039 --> 01:06:31,039
So I'll go Fox.

1393
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,199
Speaker 1: I'll go Fox as well. I just have dearon Fox

1394
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,039
is really good. And there's I think the fact that

1395
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:39,719
remember when they first traded for Sabonis, and I think

1396
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,760
we were easier, or at least I was relative to

1397
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,760
consensus where most people hated it. Osmore open to the idea,

1398
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,280
but I still just him and some bonus. They're more

1399
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,119
of an intuitive fit than I thought, Like this is

1400
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:51,719
how good Dearon Fox is. And I don't know if

1401
01:06:51,719 --> 01:06:54,760
the Kings have assembled the ideal team around him, if

1402
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,760
that makes any sense, so's I wouldn't say it's easy.

1403
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,400
Just you mentioned the contract stuff. And I also think

1404
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,920
Tyre's Maxi's really good and just as a kind of

1405
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,079
more of the plug and play shooter where it's what

1406
01:07:04,159 --> 01:07:06,639
you get the value out of MAXI is. You can't

1407
01:07:06,639 --> 01:07:08,800
shift the Aarron Fox into a role that's gonna be

1408
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,840
lower total usage, like he's gonna want to have the

1409
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,360
ball in his hands for stretches. But I do think

1410
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,320
that the Aarron Fox has moved off the bell well

1411
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,119
enough during this bonus years that he's still gonna be

1412
01:07:18,159 --> 01:07:18,639
the pick for me.

1413
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree. All Right, here we go.

1414
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,559
Oh boy, First of all, I did via some guy,

1415
01:07:26,639 --> 01:07:29,920
I mean Grant Hughes Dan you gotta choose between Jokic

1416
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:32,480
and Wemby is an interesting.

1417
01:07:32,119 --> 01:07:35,599
Speaker 1: Discussion to have just because Jokic is gonna turn thirty,

1418
01:07:36,119 --> 01:07:39,840
Wemby's so young, and it's just what does age thirty three,

1419
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,000
thirty four Nicole Jokic look like versus the trajectory that

1420
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:43,639
Wemby's on.

1421
01:07:44,719 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking about the out years because right now

1422
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:48,679
Jokic is better.

1423
01:07:49,199 --> 01:07:52,199
Speaker 1: I answer is still gonna be Jokic, right, I think so?

1424
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,199
Speaker 2: I think so? I mean next year is next year

1425
01:07:55,239 --> 01:07:57,880
gets what we might who knows this would be fascinating

1426
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,800
to revisit in a year. I think it's more likely

1427
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,199
than not that Jokic at least this year, next year,

1428
01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:06,440
maybe even the third year, Like, because what does decline

1429
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:07,400
look like for Jokic?

1430
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:10,519
Speaker 1: You know, thirty one is not Who do you watch

1431
01:08:11,079 --> 01:08:13,360
that precipitously just drops off at the age of thirty

1432
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,719
one if they're not dealing with health issues?

1433
01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 2: Right, like I it. So, here's the thing. If you

1434
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:26,159
if you think Wemby, is this, you know, beyond generational,

1435
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:28,600
Like he he's the guy we'll talk about in fifty

1436
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,439
years as like remember how he showed up and everything

1437
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,399
was different. Like if you think that and you think

1438
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:38,920
that's happening before he's twenty five, then then I guess

1439
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,800
you pick Wemby. But you just like this is this

1440
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,520
is kind of like Jokic or the field because you

1441
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,560
know what I mean, And I think you just take Jokic.

1442
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,399
I don't think anyone in the league is going to

1443
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,119
be better than Jokic this year, next year, or the

1444
01:08:52,199 --> 01:08:56,239
year after, And so you're you're banking on those last

1445
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:58,159
couple of years in the five year window of wemby

1446
01:08:58,199 --> 01:09:01,640
catching or surpassing him, which means winning MVPs, which is

1447
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,399
not beyond the realm of possibility. I just don't I

1448
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,199
just I guess I don't see it, Like, why are

1449
01:09:07,199 --> 01:09:09,479
we working this hard to justify the best player of

1450
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:10,760
the left well, because it is.

1451
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:13,560
Speaker 1: Taking him through Because look, Victor Wimiyama might just win

1452
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,600
Defensive Player of the Year in year two and he

1453
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:17,600
is what did you call him? A seven foot five

1454
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:18,439
in shooting guard.

1455
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's take. At the moment, I'm going with Jokic.

1456
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: There's gonna be more of an interesting discussion to have

1457
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,680
the Jokic about Jokic in the sense of this is

1458
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,680
probably one of the ten greatest basketball players of all time,

1459
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,880
and I don't think people are prepared to admit it

1460
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,159
just yet. And I think what may stop him is

1461
01:09:36,199 --> 01:09:38,479
that there's still the element and I whan I'm very clear.

1462
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:41,199
I think winning is super important, but like when it

1463
01:09:41,199 --> 01:09:44,720
gets boiled down to rings, the Nuggets have not consistently

1464
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,560
put him in the best position. There has been the

1465
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,880
year that I picked them because I'm a genius, and

1466
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,880
then last year is when they put themselves in a

1467
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,720
position to where they you could argue should have been

1468
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,680
one of the two or three most likely title winners

1469
01:09:59,319 --> 01:10:01,239
these other team. And part of that is being the

1470
01:10:01,279 --> 01:10:03,279
best player. But what if and when the Nuggets don't

1471
01:10:03,279 --> 01:10:05,880
win a bunch of rings with Jokic, it's one hundred

1472
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,800
percent going to beyond the Nuggets. It's not right beyond him.

1473
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,199
Speaker 2: He's never played with an All Star, Like, what are

1474
01:10:11,199 --> 01:10:14,119
we doing like that? That's insane. We don't need to

1475
01:10:14,119 --> 01:10:15,119
relitigate the whole yok.

1476
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 1: He ever played with a guard as good as Chris Paul? Right, Uh,

1477
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,159
the answer is Jokic. But I do think I had

1478
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:26,960
to think I included it. Well, you included it. Thank you,

1479
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,560
mister Grant Hughes for this submission. Included. I just thought

1480
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,600
it was interesting because Jokic is so much older than him.

1481
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's if it's a ten year window, then

1482
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,920
it's a different conversation because he's great when he's forty.

1483
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:40,239
But who knows, right.

1484
01:10:40,359 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: Well, here's the risk with Jokic. Are we sure that

1485
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,079
he just won't absconde back to Serbia and you know,

1486
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:48,880
decide to raise horses rather than play basketball. I don't

1487
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,479
think he dislikes basketball. I think people want players to

1488
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,399
emote that the way that people feel comfortable with. But

1489
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,800
if it was a ten year window, like Nicoleiokich is

1490
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,960
gonna be the guy that retires like yeah, like like yeah, thirty.

1491
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:02,079
Speaker 2: We ever hear from him again?

1492
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,399
Speaker 1: Yeah? Woo okay, this one a Wenby one. That's probably

1493
01:11:06,399 --> 01:11:08,479
a little bit tougher, I would think, or no, not

1494
01:11:09,039 --> 01:11:11,920
Anthey Edwards or Victor Wembinyama. Is it tougher next five years?

1495
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,119
This sorry from Hayden and Sons.

1496
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tougher. I think it's definitely tougher. I don't

1497
01:11:18,239 --> 01:11:20,720
know what to do here. I guess I get five years.

1498
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,960
So it's not like how old is Edwards was like

1499
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:24,399
twenty two, twenty three?

1500
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: I think he's twenty three, right, he's like fourteen.

1501
01:11:28,239 --> 01:11:28,520
Speaker 2: I know.

1502
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:29,359
Speaker 1: That's the thing.

1503
01:11:29,399 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 2: Well, it's just like you're definitely getting Edwards over the

1504
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:35,880
next five this is age twenty three season. You're getting

1505
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,479
like smacking them, You're getting his absolute prime years. I

1506
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,319
don't know that that's true about Maybe that is true

1507
01:11:41,319 --> 01:11:44,520
about Wembin Yama. We don't know what that's like doom

1508
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:46,079
and gloom like injury potential like.

1509
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: And by the way, which he has not had yet

1510
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,960
for everyone that's had all this concern man.

1511
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:56,239
Speaker 2: So here's what we know about Edwards. I think, well,

1512
01:11:56,279 --> 01:11:58,840
we don't know that he He seems like he can

1513
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:00,800
be the number one option on a good offense. Haven't

1514
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,079
necessarily seen it with the Wolves, but that's not his fault.

1515
01:12:03,279 --> 01:12:05,840
We've seen him adapt his game, like all the three

1516
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:07,960
point volume is insane this year and he's doing it

1517
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:14,159
at forty three percent, like taking tough ones five years.

1518
01:12:14,359 --> 01:12:17,359
Here's what we know about Wemby. He's maybe the best

1519
01:12:17,359 --> 01:12:20,960
defensive player on the planet today right now and can

1520
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:25,640
stretch the floor at decent efficiency at a side. Do

1521
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,000
we have to take Wemby just because of are we

1522
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:30,720
building in that tr like the growth does he how

1523
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,880
much better does he have to get right now? I

1524
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:38,039
think Edwards is a better player, but it's very close,

1525
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:40,479
and there's probably a lot of metrics that would say

1526
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:46,600
that's dead wrong because of Wemby's defensive contributions I have.

1527
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:48,000
I don't know. We got to talk this out, do

1528
01:12:48,079 --> 01:12:49,319
Are you leaning one way or the other?

1529
01:12:49,359 --> 01:12:49,680
Speaker 1: I don't.

1530
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 2: I can't decide.

1531
01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: Oh I'm not going to decide. Understand. So here's what's interesting.

1532
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:56,920
So I think what you could say about Edwards, or

1533
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,800
what I think people would gravitate towards is one of

1534
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,039
the Wolfe's biggest issues right now is they need a

1535
01:13:02,119 --> 01:13:06,239
like a floor organizer, and that'll be used against Edwards.

1536
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:09,960
But like Wemby can't do that either. So if you

1537
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,279
want him in more of a play finisher role, that

1538
01:13:12,319 --> 01:13:14,399
should maybe then be something that's knocked against him. And

1539
01:13:14,399 --> 01:13:16,119
I actually think that Edwards, if you need someone to

1540
01:13:16,199 --> 01:13:18,800
drive an offense from scratch for himself and everybody else,

1541
01:13:19,159 --> 01:13:21,319
he is going to be the better option. But I

1542
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:24,319
like the idea of just having this player who has

1543
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,159
the Everyone gets annoyed with his shot selection, but I

1544
01:13:27,359 --> 01:13:30,000
like that there's this seven foot nine inch player who

1545
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,880
could just pull up off the dribble from three with

1546
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:33,800
nineteen seconds left in the shot clock and you're not

1547
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,359
sure that he's gonna miss. Couple that with Oh well,

1548
01:13:37,359 --> 01:13:39,520
if we give him spacing or just as a play finisher,

1549
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,520
like he is going to annihilate people and you might

1550
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,600
just be the best defensive player on the planet. I think,

1551
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,680
I mean Webbin Yama here, but it's tough because of

1552
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,600
the age of Edwards and he's really fucking good. And

1553
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:55,560
look look his own defensive contributions at his specific position.

1554
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:00,159
Those are super valuable, I would argue, especially come playoff time.

1555
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, where you need him to shut that guy down

1556
01:14:03,079 --> 01:14:06,600
and also be your leading score here. Okay, as we're

1557
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,640
talking it out, it's it's like we're worried about Edwards,

1558
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,640
like Edwards is going to get better, Like aren't we

1559
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,520
dead certain that wem Begyama's going to get better? And

1560
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,079
if it's like is it close today? I think you

1561
01:14:18,119 --> 01:14:21,560
could say it's pretty close today Right now, I think

1562
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:27,520
I think I have to go Wemby because it feels

1563
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,960
like the growth potential is just higher than it is

1564
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,560
for Edwards and Edwards is that if it's close, I

1565
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:36,039
think that breaks the tie. But like Edwards is and

1566
01:14:36,279 --> 01:14:38,720
it's like some there's some mystery box, but you know,

1567
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,279
appeal with Wemby because it's like, what if he's not

1568
01:14:41,359 --> 01:14:42,960
actually a shooting guard. What if he gets a little

1569
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,600
stronger and he also just you know, leads the league

1570
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,199
in post up points per play or something at some point,

1571
01:14:48,239 --> 01:14:51,199
I I don't know. I guess I go Wemby, but like,

1572
01:14:51,239 --> 01:14:53,640
I can't do that without acknowledging I think Edwards is

1573
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:55,680
just going to be one of the five or ten

1574
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:57,960
best players in the league for much more than the

1575
01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:58,720
next five years.

1576
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,239
Speaker 1: Does it change if we to break this down into

1577
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:03,479
if it was two separate categories where you already have

1578
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,720
a star on your team, would you dead prefer to

1579
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,439
have Edwards or Victor Wembenyama on your team a star

1580
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:11,399
not at their position?

1581
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,600
Speaker 2: Uh, if it's like an offensive star, like a first option,

1582
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,000
like a big, like a two way wing type of

1583
01:15:18,039 --> 01:15:20,560
thing like a Tatum or something right, or.

1584
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,520
Speaker 1: Even let's go with both, like could there be like

1585
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,119
a guard, like a floor general type two to where

1586
01:15:26,119 --> 01:15:29,840
it's okay, Darius Garland is on your team. Or because

1587
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:31,840
we're saying that both of these guys need someone who's

1588
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:33,840
gonna be more of a primary playmaker. Yeah, I don't

1589
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:35,880
know why Darius Garland. Maybe because we talked about Ran.

1590
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:37,720
The episode was the first one that came to mind.

1591
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 2: But well, I would say if in that hypothetical, I

1592
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:45,079
think wem ben Yama is the pick because you're just

1593
01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:47,479
gonna have one of the best defenses in the league,

1594
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,720
provided you have like adequate talent around him, whereas.

1595
01:15:50,359 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: Well it was Tatum, would that open the door to

1596
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,239
shift to Edwards at all?

1597
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 2: Uh? No, I was gonna pick wem ben Yama if

1598
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,039
if you granted me the Tatum hypothetical, I think.

1599
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 1: I'll gratuate that now. Then the second would be you're

1600
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:05,640
starting a team from scratching. You're just trying to pick

1601
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:08,319
who you're building around for the next five like they

1602
01:16:08,359 --> 01:16:09,720
are going to be your best player.

1603
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh well, that is what this exercise kind of is.

1604
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:19,159
I think. So if you take Edwards, you're just like, well,

1605
01:16:19,199 --> 01:16:21,920
we have our number one option and he's gonna guard

1606
01:16:22,119 --> 01:16:24,479
and feels like a good leader and all this other stuff.

1607
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:28,079
So you're here's the thing. You're in great shape either way, right,

1608
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,600
it's looking pretty good if these are your two choices.

1609
01:16:31,079 --> 01:16:33,199
I think I'm just gonna go I'm gonna blanket this

1610
01:16:33,279 --> 01:16:37,079
and just go Wemby and try not to overthink it.

1611
01:16:37,119 --> 01:16:40,319
Like I'm I feel like it would be inconsistent to

1612
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:42,920
walk back all the like ridiculous things we've said about

1613
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,640
him and not choose him. I agree with you, oh

1614
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,680
Dan from via Yoho, Bam out of Bio or Lauri Markinen,

1615
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:51,239
this one's tough.

1616
01:16:51,399 --> 01:16:53,520
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go with Bam out of Bio

1617
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,800
because I do believe that he is one of the

1618
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,720
one well Weben Yama exists, So he's he's no worse

1619
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:03,199
than like one of the three most valuable playoff defenders

1620
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,920
in the NBA, And so I think it's him. And

1621
01:17:07,279 --> 01:17:09,399
I think you could argue do you trust that he

1622
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:12,279
can anchor an offense? And the answer should just be no.

1623
01:17:12,359 --> 01:17:14,119
It's as like the best player. No, you're not gonna

1624
01:17:14,119 --> 01:17:16,680
have a good offensive Bam at a Bayo. But like

1625
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:19,600
Larry Marketing is not going to generate like he's not

1626
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,079
your traditional hub. Now he's used in such a unique

1627
01:17:22,079 --> 01:17:23,920
way that's just hyper efficient. He's big, he can put

1628
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,279
the ball on the deck a little bit. I don't

1629
01:17:26,319 --> 01:17:29,079
like the gap between the two on offense, insofar as

1630
01:17:29,079 --> 01:17:31,319
it exists to a great degree, it's not large enough

1631
01:17:31,319 --> 01:17:32,520
for me to take Lowry.

1632
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think Bam is a better defensive

1633
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,560
player than market In is an offensive player. And I

1634
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:42,199
think Bam is a better offensive player than market In

1635
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:44,279
is a defensive player. And you know what I mean,

1636
01:17:44,359 --> 01:17:46,960
like that his strength is stronger than market and strength

1637
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,840
his weakness is less weak than market In's weakness. And

1638
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,239
the playoff thing is like we've just you know, Bam

1639
01:17:53,279 --> 01:17:56,000
has been the defensive anchor on teams in the finals.

1640
01:17:56,039 --> 01:17:58,680
Like that's if market In becomes the offensive anchor on

1641
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:00,840
a team that makes the finals is a different conversation.

1642
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:01,880
But it's Bam for now.

1643
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: Oh okay, via Maddy l Grant, Caid Cunningham or Shaden

1644
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,960
Sharp for the next five years.

1645
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:13,359
Speaker 2: It's kid uh Sharp, Like I know, I've leaned towards

1646
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:15,680
the guy that like we don't know yet what if Like,

1647
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:20,159
oh imagine the upside here. Sharp has shot it well

1648
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,840
in stretches, but overall he's been like a middling three

1649
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:28,039
point shooter thirty four percent for his career. Nuclear athlete

1650
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:31,800
can score it. And but just like I just don't

1651
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:33,720
think he's going to be as good or certainly as

1652
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:35,840
well rounded as cade Ca. I mean, this is this

1653
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,159
is one of the easier ones in a while.

1654
01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: To me, I think so too just I would boil

1655
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,960
it down to kid Cunningham can be a primary table

1656
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:44,439
center and I don't think that's shade and sharp.

1657
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, okay, Denny Avdia or if this wul

1658
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,960
Via Bjp Denny Avdia or blall Kolabala really playing to

1659
01:18:51,039 --> 01:18:54,600
our our our rational We had.

1660
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,279
Speaker 1: A couple good like hard if you're a hard one

1661
01:18:57,319 --> 01:18:59,760
Knox listener, like that's why you come here. He had

1662
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,079
a couple of these good ones. I this might be

1663
01:19:03,159 --> 01:19:06,439
recency biased, but like it does kind of prove that

1664
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,279
Denny Avia maybe either isn't a scalable or you need

1665
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:11,079
to be more specific with the way you're gonna use

1666
01:19:11,119 --> 01:19:13,680
him because he's not faring well on offense important like

1667
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:15,640
he's still passing the ball, they're just not making shots

1668
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:17,720
off those. Still a really good defender, it can be

1669
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:20,479
a good rebounder and push the pace. What are you

1670
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:23,880
comfortable saying though long term the next five years he's

1671
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,680
going to be better at than Blah Kola BALI I

1672
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,640
think you can say passing. I don't know that you

1673
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,079
can say anything.

1674
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 2: Else, right, And if that's like, if passing is what

1675
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:39,000
he's is what Avdya is better at that can still

1676
01:19:39,039 --> 01:19:41,680
be true, and then Kolabali like that that skill like

1677
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,119
passing is gonna be like his fourth most important skill,

1678
01:19:45,279 --> 01:19:47,680
you know. Like, so I think it's cool of Bali,

1679
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:52,199
the athleticism, like the upside, the capacity to just be

1680
01:19:52,199 --> 01:19:55,439
better than Avdya at everything as soon as like, I mean,

1681
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,600
he's basically better than him at everything at the moment.

1682
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,800
But yeah, I think it's cool Bally just the his

1683
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:03,640
ceiling is so much higher.

1684
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:06,720
Speaker 1: This year two, like we're at year one point five.

1685
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:09,159
He's in what at one point twenty five? Can also

1686
01:20:09,159 --> 01:20:11,199
take a moment to appreciate the way he looks in

1687
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:13,159
the picture if you're watching on YouTube, Like he looks

1688
01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:15,079
like that should be an album cover, right.

1689
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 2: He's just contemplating, like he's looking at the ceiling wondering, like.

1690
01:20:20,079 --> 01:20:22,399
Speaker 1: How am I gonna who am I gonna shut down tonight?

1691
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,640
On the defense, was wondering you would know that maybe

1692
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,399
by watching the Wizards defense that's neither here nor there. Grant, Oh,

1693
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:31,720
this one's for you via Mike hernishon R J. Barrett

1694
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,319
or Jordan Poole, Who are you taking for the next

1695
01:20:33,359 --> 01:20:33,920
five years?

1696
01:20:34,159 --> 01:20:36,399
Speaker 2: If you'd caught me what year. Would it have been

1697
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,119
two fresh off the title right now, fresh off the

1698
01:20:40,159 --> 01:20:44,439
title pre punch, I think you would. I would have

1699
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,560
I would have picked the Pool for sure. That's that's

1700
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,439
how you measure That's how you measure time. There's either

1701
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,760
there's the before in the after. It's Barrett Barrett. Barrett

1702
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:58,479
is like, I mean, this year, I've been so like

1703
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:02,479
tickled by what at lessly good passer he's become. How

1704
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,439
much fun it is to watch him facilitate as like

1705
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,479
a powerful, hard driving I don't know, I guess he's

1706
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:11,560
a guard, but you know wing Uh Pool, Pool is

1707
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,560
an unserious defender. He's been better. Everyone's saying, oh, he's

1708
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:14,960
been better.

1709
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:19,119
Speaker 1: It's like Pools argument of like, oh he's trying.

1710
01:21:19,039 --> 01:21:23,560
Speaker 2: Right, He's right, He's not. He's not actively doing damage

1711
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,880
as much on defense. That's like, that's the it's Barrett.

1712
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,680
Barrett is just vastly more complete two way player that

1713
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,039
seems to be getting better. Uh. And and Pool is

1714
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,439
a bucket getter that does cool shit but is ultimately

1715
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:38,760
like in a big role, does not help you win.

1716
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:40,600
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm trying to think that there is

1717
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:42,479
a case for Pool, Like he shot the ball well

1718
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,760
from three ounbsurd volume, but I think he probably would

1719
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:48,159
you trust him to run like you're off, like, let's

1720
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:50,039
just use a traditional pick and roll in the half court.

1721
01:21:50,039 --> 01:21:51,600
I think you could probably make the case that maybe

1722
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:54,960
Pool is better there as a passer, but it's it's

1723
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:56,960
Barrett just by the well roundedness for the last five

1724
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:57,800
years without question.

1725
01:21:58,399 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, Dan via Adam, Anthony Black or jayde and

1726
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,600
Ivy this sucks.

1727
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:07,079
Speaker 1: Like in a good way where I don't want to

1728
01:22:07,079 --> 01:22:10,640
have to answer. I don't Oh, I'm gonna hate myself,

1729
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:14,359
aren't I I'm going Anthony Black. I feel like Jay

1730
01:22:14,359 --> 01:22:16,319
and Ivey's been far more plug and play, feels like

1731
01:22:16,359 --> 01:22:20,319
he's making quicker decisions. But just the defense that you

1732
01:22:20,359 --> 01:22:23,000
get from Anthony Black and the fact that he doesn't

1733
01:22:23,079 --> 01:22:26,439
need the ball ever necessarily on offense, if you can

1734
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:29,439
trust that he's going to become someone who can drill

1735
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,920
set threes, like the answer has to be him, where

1736
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,640
Jay and Ivy probably gives you a chance at more

1737
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:40,119
of like that driving offensive force, but even the Pistons

1738
01:22:40,119 --> 01:22:42,600
don't turn to him for that in the way that

1739
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:44,600
you would think. And so both of these players are

1740
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:47,600
gonna be viewed as would you call them almost off

1741
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:50,119
guards in the sense then like, yeah, okay, they're gonna

1742
01:22:50,119 --> 01:22:51,479
do a bunch of ball handling that runs some of

1743
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:55,239
the offense. I'd probably prefer to bet on Anthony Black

1744
01:22:55,319 --> 01:22:56,399
for the next five years.

1745
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 2: This is a fascinating comparison. So Ivy has been significantly

1746
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,159
better in ways that make you more confident that he

1747
01:23:04,199 --> 01:23:07,239
can fit next to cave like he's making I was

1748
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:09,079
did right up on him a couple of days ago.

1749
01:23:09,119 --> 01:23:11,079
He was making like forty seven percent of his catch

1750
01:23:11,079 --> 01:23:14,000
and shoot threes, which is like, if that's any if

1751
01:23:14,039 --> 01:23:17,520
he's a forty percent catch and shoot three point shooter Ivy,

1752
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,760
then it's like, all right, great because now the athleticism plays,

1753
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,119
now the secondary creation plays defensively. I think Black is

1754
01:23:24,159 --> 01:23:26,840
just always going to be better length and just like

1755
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,560
he's wired to defend more so than than Ivy. Is.

1756
01:23:30,159 --> 01:23:32,640
The question with Black is just like this goes back

1757
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,560
to like can he make shots? Because if he can't,

1758
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,880
then it's like, I don't know. The Sean Livingston comparison

1759
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:42,399
always feels kind of interesting to me because the oversize

1760
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:46,520
point guard that just will never shoot threes effectively. Black

1761
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:48,479
made him last year but he didn't take enough, and

1762
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:51,520
he's not making them this year, he's taking more. Just

1763
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:55,399
can can I pick Anthony Black with a deficiency potentially

1764
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:58,520
as glaring as his shooting, whereas but then Ivy can't

1765
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:05,279
guard man? I don't know. I think I probably go Ivy.

1766
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,800
I've we've seen more production, We've seen him in like

1767
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:12,239
a bigger role, and the athleticism is like pretty hard

1768
01:24:12,319 --> 01:24:15,319
to deny. But I could. I could definitely see Black

1769
01:24:15,399 --> 01:24:18,239
being like a bigger piece of a winner because of

1770
01:24:18,279 --> 01:24:21,359
all the other stuff that he does. But I'll still

1771
01:24:21,399 --> 01:24:23,760
just go Ivy because we've seen more of him one

1772
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:25,760
and and I think the skill games he's made as

1773
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,880
a shooter this year are pretty pretty tantalizing for the.

1774
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 1: Next five years. Who would you rather have be a

1775
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:35,479
Branden Brandon Ingram or Zach Levine? I.

1776
01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:38,399
Speaker 2: Well, here's the contract situation, and this is real tricky

1777
01:24:38,399 --> 01:24:39,920
because we don't know what Ingram is gonna make. We

1778
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:41,960
know what he wants which will put him on the levine.

1779
01:24:42,039 --> 01:24:43,680
Speaker 1: Are you gonna run into the same issue with Zach

1780
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:46,239
Levine in two years though? And his contract so.

1781
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 2: You maybe, but that's at least two years in I

1782
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:56,119
think I go Ingram, younger, longer, willing to shoot threes.

1783
01:24:56,239 --> 01:24:58,520
Leavin is Levine is just a straight up like he's

1784
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:02,399
a great scorer, like efficient, great shooter, high volume, all

1785
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:06,239
that stuff. Ingram were uncomfortable with his uh, you know,

1786
01:25:06,399 --> 01:25:08,800
preference for the long two and the pull up stuff.

1787
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,800
I think the youth, I think. I guess you'd say

1788
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,680
Ingram is more durable. You probably would. And we know

1789
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:19,319
Levine is making a ton. We think Ingram will make

1790
01:25:19,359 --> 01:25:21,640
a ton, but that's not a given. So if we're

1791
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,640
not gonna worry about the contract stuff because it's kind

1792
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,840
of an unknown, I guess I go Ingram pretty close,

1793
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:27,880
though I know.

1794
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: I mean you're saying youth, he's twenty seven versus twenty

1795
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:32,560
nine year old Zack Levine. I'm gonna go Zach Lvine.

1796
01:25:33,039 --> 01:25:37,039
My issue with brandon Ingram, you put him on a

1797
01:25:37,119 --> 01:25:39,399
team like the Pelicans have run into this issue is

1798
01:25:39,399 --> 01:25:40,560
if you have to, I don't want to use the

1799
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,800
merger marginalize him, but use him in different ways or

1800
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:47,159
have him be more complimentary. Is he capable of doing it?

1801
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:51,520
And the answer is it's maybe. With Zach Lavine, we

1802
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:53,399
seen him kind of scale up and down and Okay,

1803
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:55,079
the teams are always bad, but when you have him

1804
01:25:55,079 --> 01:25:56,920
scaled down, it's not for anyone who's really gonna be

1805
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,319
just a lifeline to a really good team. And then

1806
01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:02,880
with brandon Ingram, it's, oh, he's better suited for sure

1807
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:05,560
to be more of the featured option. I don't want

1808
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,239
brandon Ingram to be my featured option on whatever team

1809
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:11,000
I'm trying to build or already have in place. I'm

1810
01:26:11,039 --> 01:26:12,880
going with Zack Lavine here. I think there's the health risk,

1811
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,039
and he is, like you said, slightly older, but I

1812
01:26:16,199 --> 01:26:19,279
like the idea of knowing he's gonna come in and

1813
01:26:19,319 --> 01:26:21,279
if the goal is to put like you're not you're

1814
01:26:21,319 --> 01:26:23,199
not putting Zack Lvine on your team for the next

1815
01:26:23,239 --> 01:26:26,000
five years with the intention of having him be even

1816
01:26:26,039 --> 01:26:28,039
your second best player at this point. And so that's

1817
01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:29,720
why I would I would go to him.

1818
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:32,359
Speaker 2: The problem is he's paid like your best player that

1819
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,720
you know. I know, I I dumped that. You're kind

1820
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:36,399
of convincing me so that brandon Ingram.

1821
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,600
Speaker 1: I guess my point would be like brandon Ingram at

1822
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:41,640
this exact price point for the next five years, so

1823
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:42,840
thirty six million.

1824
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:47,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you're right. The scalability is the real

1825
01:26:47,239 --> 01:26:49,359
is the real quay we haven't I haven't done this yet,

1826
01:26:49,399 --> 01:26:51,960
but I think you've swayed me over to Levigne because

1827
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:56,880
even though he's overpaid and the durability, yeah, oh man,

1828
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:58,880
he's played so a few games like I just cannot

1829
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:02,399
play sixty six Steve Gash. You've swayed me. I'm gonna

1830
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:03,960
go Levine. I'm gonna jump on board.

1831
01:27:04,119 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 1: It's about time there's you're a convert now.

1832
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,199
Speaker 2: Oh all right? Uh? This is from Nicole j Cole

1833
01:27:10,239 --> 01:27:12,800
of Brandon Pajemski or Jabari Smith Junior.

1834
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:17,520
Speaker 1: Is this I like this for me? But right I'm

1835
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,760
gonna go with Jabbari. I know the offense can be

1836
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,000
all over the place, but the things he can do

1837
01:27:22,159 --> 01:27:25,760
defensively are nasty. And if you have him like he

1838
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:27,800
could play center. I know that he's played. I think

1839
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:30,520
a fewer share of his minutes have come there compared

1840
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,920
to last year, but that's only because like Alpernshanggun exists

1841
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:34,640
and they feel compelled like, okay, we're gonna get Steven

1842
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:40,279
Adams minutes. I'm going Jabbari and it's pretty comfortable for me.

1843
01:27:40,359 --> 01:27:44,119
I do worry because Jabari likes to not that I

1844
01:27:44,199 --> 01:27:45,880
want to use brandon Ingram as an analog, but he

1845
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:47,920
wants to take those difficult two pointers. Like you could

1846
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:49,319
see it in him, You could see him try it,

1847
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:51,359
but like you could just envision him as being a

1848
01:27:51,399 --> 01:27:53,560
pick and pop or pick and roll big if he

1849
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:57,159
doesn't like become the ninetieth percentile outcome of what you

1850
01:27:57,439 --> 01:27:59,640
what we thought he could be offensively coming into the league.

1851
01:28:00,399 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I go Jabbari as well. And this is like

1852
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,399
I mean Pajemski, just the shooting and inability to create

1853
01:28:06,399 --> 01:28:08,760
space and and be a threat as a scorer. This

1854
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:10,359
year is like, this is the wrong time to be

1855
01:28:10,399 --> 01:28:11,920
doing this. If we did this a year ago would

1856
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,600
have been a more like legit conversation.

1857
01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:16,600
Speaker 1: Is at the right time because we have more information.

1858
01:28:17,359 --> 01:28:20,560
Speaker 2: Or right is he showing us like this is actually

1859
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,199
more like what his career is going to be. Like

1860
01:28:23,039 --> 01:28:26,119
Smith is just like he has more ways to succeed, right,

1861
01:28:26,279 --> 01:28:28,560
Like he can be a great defensive player even if

1862
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:31,479
he sticks around thirty four thirty five percent from three,

1863
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:33,960
and or he could be a stretch center, and or

1864
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:35,760
he could guard a bunch of It's just like there's

1865
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,159
the pathways to success are more varied for him.

1866
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:39,399
Speaker 1: Your turn for me?

1867
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 2: All right, Oh go ahead, you read to me.

1868
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,520
Speaker 1: Jaron Jackson junior. This is from OZ ten.

1869
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 2: This is fascinating because isn't Jaron Jackson junior kind of

1870
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:51,600
like what we hope Chet holmern settles in as at

1871
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:55,279
some point like the pretty you know, pretty cool, like, oh,

1872
01:28:55,279 --> 01:28:57,159
he's going to stretch it, he's going to be a

1873
01:28:57,159 --> 01:29:03,159
good defender more off. Yeah, yeah, like the evolved version

1874
01:29:03,199 --> 01:29:05,279
of Jaron Jackson where it's like, oh, he's could just

1875
01:29:05,359 --> 01:29:06,399
take you off the dribble.

1876
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:08,640
Speaker 1: So we're hoping he could be Jaron Jackson junior. Book

1877
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:10,439
continue to rebound, right.

1878
01:29:10,319 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, well that's the difference like rebound and I

1879
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:15,079
probably have a higher volume of blocks. But what that

1880
01:29:15,119 --> 01:29:18,560
means for defenses up for debate. I think that probably Okay,

1881
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:21,439
here's the case Chet may win Defensive Player of the Year.

1882
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,840
Jared Jackson has and is not at a point in

1883
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,399
his career where it's like always fallen way off and

1884
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:32,600
Jackson has evolved offensively in really like exciting ways that

1885
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:35,239
we hope Homegren will and has shown signs of being

1886
01:29:35,239 --> 01:29:37,840
able to do. I think if the age gap were bigger,

1887
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:40,680
Like if Jackson were twenty eight, twenty nine, it would

1888
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:44,319
just be CHET. But I think it's probably Jackson for

1889
01:29:44,359 --> 01:29:46,760
the next five years. And then let's we we've talked

1890
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:49,319
about it too. The injury stuff for Chet is concerning,

1891
01:29:50,079 --> 01:29:53,039
and I guess I guess not that Jackson's picture of

1892
01:29:53,079 --> 01:29:54,840
health right, but he's.

1893
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:57,199
Speaker 1: Been more durable than Chet Holmgren, who has missed more

1894
01:29:57,199 --> 01:29:58,640
games than he's played it at this point when you

1895
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,600
factor in the missed rookie season. I thought I was

1896
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:04,039
gonna go into this because my whole thing with Jackson though,

1897
01:30:04,159 --> 01:30:06,800
is is he I mean, he did it last year,

1898
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,560
but like he's back under thirty minutes per game this year.

1899
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,600
There's still he's gotten it in check, but like this

1900
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,640
is still someone who's gonna foul a shit ton. He's

1901
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:18,439
still at four foules per thirty six minutes. I'm gonna

1902
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:21,119
go Chet. You know what, I think, Jaron Jackson Junior

1903
01:30:21,159 --> 01:30:23,159
is too complimentary in the grand scheme of things to

1904
01:30:23,159 --> 01:30:25,359
wear the higher end outcome for CHET, I will bet

1905
01:30:25,399 --> 01:30:27,880
on that, but the durability and then also I'm gonna

1906
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:31,239
trust trust Chet's rebounding more. And I kind of thought

1907
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,640
the positional malleability. Might it does probably still work in

1908
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:38,039
Jackson's favor, but I wouldn't hesitate to play Chet alongside

1909
01:30:38,039 --> 01:30:40,520
as a heart and Stein if they're ever available together.

1910
01:30:41,319 --> 01:30:42,920
And like even I think you can make the case

1911
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:47,439
like Chet can be like any not any role, but

1912
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:50,119
Jared Jackson Junior is in his best defensive role. I

1913
01:30:50,119 --> 01:30:52,000
think when he's not the primary big. The fact that

1914
01:30:52,119 --> 01:30:55,279
Chet can be in his best role as the primary

1915
01:30:55,279 --> 01:30:58,000
big but also work alongside another big, I think that's

1916
01:30:58,079 --> 01:31:00,560
easier to work back from, whether you're him as your

1917
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:02,199
best player, second best player, or whatever.

1918
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,079
Speaker 2: It makes me uncomfortable that I picked Chet over Mobiley

1919
01:31:05,239 --> 01:31:08,439
and now I'm taking Jackson over Chet, But it's just

1920
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:09,359
like this is good.

1921
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:11,119
Speaker 1: This is really good.

1922
01:31:11,399 --> 01:31:14,279
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Like, I think it's a good outcome

1923
01:31:14,319 --> 01:31:18,439
if Chet is as productive on both ends as Jackson

1924
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:20,840
has been. You know, that's kind of where I land.

1925
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 1: The ship's fucked up.

1926
01:31:22,199 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 2: This is five years, get out of here, LaMelo Ball

1927
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:27,239
or Steph Curry from Pizito lab.

1928
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:29,880
Speaker 1: Could the answer be Steph Curry? Do we want him

1929
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:32,000
at age? What is that? Forty two in five years?

1930
01:31:33,159 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? This so he'll turn thirty seven, in what is

1931
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:39,159
it March? I think, so, yeah, forty forty one, you

1932
01:31:39,239 --> 01:31:41,760
got it. You're getting his age for counting this year.

1933
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,279
You're getting aged thirty six through forty one seasons out

1934
01:31:44,279 --> 01:31:44,680
of Steph.

1935
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:49,079
Speaker 1: If you're concerned about why am I thinking so hard

1936
01:31:49,079 --> 01:31:51,279
about this? Give me Steph?

1937
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:54,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's right because you're getting this year

1938
01:31:54,199 --> 01:31:56,600
and he'll be fine next year and probably the year after,

1939
01:31:57,079 --> 01:31:57,439
and then.

1940
01:31:57,359 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 1: He scaled after that, and then he's just like, well, like.

1941
01:32:01,279 --> 01:32:04,279
Speaker 2: He scales great, right Like if if as he declines,

1942
01:32:04,319 --> 01:32:06,399
it's like, well, he's still a five alarm fire, Like

1943
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:08,640
you're never how old does he have to be for

1944
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:11,960
a defense to not be like singularly focused on don't

1945
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:13,159
let him shoot? You know?

1946
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 1: I just those twenty three So we're just saying that.

1947
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,520
Speaker 2: Well, who's the better who's going to be the better defender?

1948
01:32:21,239 --> 01:32:23,319
Like Steph at forty one is probably a better defender

1949
01:32:23,359 --> 01:32:24,600
than right.

1950
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 1: Now, who's going to compete? And that's good. I'm going Steph,

1951
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:31,000
that's just that's so weird. But it's the answer that

1952
01:32:31,079 --> 01:32:32,159
was an interesting one though.

1953
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:33,479
Speaker 2: Oh okay, here we go.

1954
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:37,439
Speaker 1: Okay, drant Trey Young or Damian Lillard next five years

1955
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:38,399
via oz Ten.

1956
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 2: So, yeah, this is pretty strictly an age question. Like

1957
01:32:44,079 --> 01:32:46,199
I'm not the biggest Tray Young fan, but I think,

1958
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:50,800
no post Portland, how different is Dame from Trey Young

1959
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:53,199
really like in terms of like what he what he

1960
01:32:53,239 --> 01:32:56,439
brings and doesn't bring to a team, and so them

1961
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,399
being like fairly comparable and at the moment to me

1962
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,119
just sort like I think, how many how many really

1963
01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:04,439
good years does Dame have left? I mean, we've just

1964
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,159
we just talked up Steph like going into his forties,

1965
01:33:07,159 --> 01:33:08,359
Soames game doesn't.

1966
01:33:08,119 --> 01:33:11,279
Speaker 1: Feel like it should be able offensively will age well,

1967
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:13,960
but he is someone who I mean and now it's well,

1968
01:33:14,199 --> 01:33:15,920
I mean he is Giannis and Brooke, but I'm like

1969
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:18,199
saying Steph has Draymond Green and it's all right, but

1970
01:33:18,199 --> 01:33:19,720
he's also had, like look at some of the players

1971
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,000
that have been around him. So the answer has just

1972
01:33:22,039 --> 01:33:23,800
the I think it just comes down to the age

1973
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:24,800
difference here if any I.

1974
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 2: Think so too. I think it's Trey for that reason.

1975
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 1: Next up, Oh, this is yours to give to me?

1976
01:33:29,279 --> 01:33:32,159
Speaker 2: Christian Brown from Real Syrup Christian Brown or Josh Giddy

1977
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:33,880
easy is there.

1978
01:33:34,119 --> 01:33:36,640
Speaker 1: Like is this like a thing? It is Christian Brown. Right,

1979
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,239
Christian Brown might win Most Improved Player this year. I

1980
01:33:39,279 --> 01:33:41,000
don't think he will, but he might finish in the

1981
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,760
top three. I will say the biggest I've grown. We

1982
01:33:45,079 --> 01:33:48,119
grew to appreciate Christian Brown's defense even more last year

1983
01:33:48,159 --> 01:33:49,760
because of what we saw for him in the playoffs.

1984
01:33:50,039 --> 01:33:52,119
Dave experimented with more ball handling from him, and I

1985
01:33:52,199 --> 01:33:53,880
kind of wish those reps for going to Peyton Watson,

1986
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:55,760
who I think is the higher ceiling. But the answer

1987
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,880
is Christian Brown for me. I think he's more plug

1988
01:33:57,880 --> 01:33:59,960
and play. He's the better defender. I don't even know

1989
01:34:00,079 --> 01:34:02,840
what the case would be for Josh Giddy at this point,

1990
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:04,960
Like the Bulls don't even give him consistent minute.

1991
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just and just divorce it. It's

1992
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:11,199
like the player type, Like what what is the what

1993
01:34:11,279 --> 01:34:13,680
is the theory of building a winning team with Josh

1994
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:15,800
Gitty like as a key piece, Like it's just.

1995
01:34:16,199 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 1: Even Kobe White behind Josh Gitty is about to pick

1996
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,000
Christian Brown. You can see it on his face.

1997
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:25,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Brown, that's easy. Brown Brown is like it's

1998
01:34:25,039 --> 01:34:27,279
not like if Giddy were I think a couple of

1999
01:34:27,319 --> 01:34:29,119
years ago when it seemed like Giddy might just be

2000
01:34:29,239 --> 01:34:32,000
the walking triple double, like, oh, he'll be okay on defense,

2001
01:34:32,079 --> 01:34:33,800
Like it's just it's brown, it's pretty easy.

2002
01:34:34,199 --> 01:34:35,880
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm glad I give this one to you via

2003
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,359
Adam Trace Jackson Davis or Eve's Mecy.

2004
01:34:39,279 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm too I'm too biased. I don't think

2005
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:43,840
either of these guys has like it is a high

2006
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:48,359
high end starter going forward. I don't know. I have

2007
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:51,319
to concede of having seen about ten times as much

2008
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:55,159
action from Trace Jackson Davis as Eve mec Jackson Davis

2009
01:34:55,239 --> 01:34:59,960
is like an effective, like good enough athletic undersized center

2010
01:35:00,359 --> 01:35:02,880
to be in the league for a long time. Mesie,

2011
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:06,199
I guess you'd say just has the more better shot blocker,

2012
01:35:06,279 --> 01:35:09,119
maybe more athletic, Like I just go Trace Jackson Davis

2013
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:13,760
decent passer, like I think he's a fair undersized big.

2014
01:35:15,239 --> 01:35:17,359
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting is that I think Tray Jackson

2015
01:35:17,439 --> 01:35:20,199
Davis probably needs to have a very specific front court

2016
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:25,600
partner alongside him, even if it's not gonna be Draymond.

2017
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:28,520
I feel, I mean tj D. But Eves means he

2018
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:31,000
just the force he plays with the shot blocking stuff.

2019
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,399
But he's definitely in terms of scoring. I think he's

2020
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:37,119
the more dynamic offensive prospect. Yeah, but that's close. He's been.

2021
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,680
He's turned some heads this year, So i'll go t

2022
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:41,359
J D's. I'll lean him slightly.

2023
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 2: Mitchell Robinson. This would be a BJP. Mitchell Robinson or

2024
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:46,039
Robert Williams the Third.

2025
01:35:46,279 --> 01:35:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with. I don't even need a preamble here,

2026
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:50,720
It's Robert Williams the Third because you don't get to

2027
01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:53,560
say that, well the health concerns, right, look at what's

2028
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:56,319
Mitchell Robinson doing right now? And I think give me

2029
01:35:56,359 --> 01:36:00,760
the more dynamic offensive player, who, if they're both at

2030
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:03,359
full strength, is Robert Williams the Third? Also the more

2031
01:36:03,399 --> 01:36:05,079
dynamic defensive player then too.

2032
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:08,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm going to ask you this, would.

2033
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:10,720
Speaker 1: You rather get eighteen minutes per game of Robert Williams

2034
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:13,000
the Third or twenty six minutes per game of Mitchell Robinson?

2035
01:36:13,039 --> 01:36:14,239
And I'm gonna take the former.

2036
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:18,039
Speaker 2: I Yeah, that's right. I think we are talking about

2037
01:36:18,079 --> 01:36:21,760
someone that, like you're this is a backup, right, this

2038
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:23,760
is a backup center that you hope you're gonna get

2039
01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:26,319
fifty games out of, you know, for a few minutes

2040
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:30,359
and we've I think the offensive rebounding from from Robinson

2041
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,279
is you know, has was like a real swing skill

2042
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:37,000
for some of the best stretches the Knicks had. But

2043
01:36:37,279 --> 01:36:41,039
I think what Williams is just Williams can just do more. Again,

2044
01:36:41,159 --> 01:36:43,000
the health question is like, I don't know, these guys

2045
01:36:43,039 --> 01:36:45,079
are both gonna barely play, but I'll go Williams.

2046
01:36:45,399 --> 01:36:50,520
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, grant being Mike kernishon Dorian Finney Smith or

2047
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:52,439
Najie Marshall for the next five years.

2048
01:36:53,199 --> 01:36:55,119
Speaker 2: I mean, Marshall's on a heater right now, so that

2049
01:36:55,199 --> 01:37:02,039
helps offensively. I think I think it's Marshall and that's

2050
01:37:02,119 --> 01:37:04,680
a lot of that's the age, a lot of that

2051
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:08,159
is I this latest stretch of shooting for him has

2052
01:37:08,199 --> 01:37:13,039
been really interesting. I think. I mean, they both play

2053
01:37:13,159 --> 01:37:15,840
really hard, so that would normally be something you just said, well,

2054
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:18,319
Marshall plays so hard, but Phinney Smith is right there

2055
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:18,920
on ball.

2056
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:20,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Dory Finney Smith is going to be thirty

2057
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:21,840
two in May.

2058
01:37:22,199 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 2: That's it's kind of like the the the young version

2059
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:26,199
of DFS and the current one.

2060
01:37:26,199 --> 01:37:28,399
Speaker 1: And I'll just think I will say I think nase Has,

2061
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:30,399
I think Dorriyan Finney Smith is just the better shoot.

2062
01:37:30,399 --> 01:37:32,359
It's funny that they're we're talking about both Mavericks here

2063
01:37:32,399 --> 01:37:35,119
basically since that's where Dorrian Phiney Smith came from. I

2064
01:37:35,239 --> 01:37:37,680
trust Doriy Finney Smith Moore as a shooter because even

2065
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:40,079
with his recent stretch, Naji Marshall is still under thirty

2066
01:37:40,119 --> 01:37:43,039
percent this year, He's only only been above thirty five

2067
01:37:43,079 --> 01:37:48,920
percent once. But he's younger. I think he's just as versatile,

2068
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:51,319
if not more so, defensively, and there are more ball

2069
01:37:51,359 --> 01:37:53,039
skills there now you don't necessarily want to put it

2070
01:37:53,079 --> 01:37:55,760
outside of transition in his hands a ton. Yeah, the

2071
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:58,439
age difference that may just makes up the the gap

2072
01:37:58,479 --> 01:37:58,720
for me.

2073
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:01,720
Speaker 2: It's kind of similar archetypes, but yeah, I think it's

2074
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:03,159
Marshall for the for the age reason.

2075
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: Oh this is sinister, not not hard for me?

2076
01:38:07,279 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 2: Does this meteor ok great? De Jontay Murray dan from

2077
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:11,600
nicol J Kolov or Derek White.

2078
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:15,640
Speaker 1: I think it's Derek White, right. De Jontay Murray could

2079
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,680
definitely steer the offense on his own more, but like

2080
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:20,520
Derek White does literally everything.

2081
01:38:20,199 --> 01:38:23,199
Speaker 2: Else well, and it's like the offense is kind of

2082
01:38:23,239 --> 01:38:26,359
close because White is such a plus plus shooter, you know, like.

2083
01:38:26,399 --> 01:38:28,640
Speaker 1: It only happened in like what the past.

2084
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:32,399
Speaker 2: Three years, you wouldn't. Yeah, I it's like who's gonna

2085
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:34,119
I don't know, is it?

2086
01:38:34,199 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 1: I get?

2087
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,319
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. What Murray is is an on

2088
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:40,720
ball point guard, right, Like that's sort of that's what

2089
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:43,000
he does, Like I do. I think if White had

2090
01:38:43,039 --> 01:38:45,960
that role, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. Like I

2091
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,279
think White can do in a different way. I think

2092
01:38:48,319 --> 01:38:51,840
White is smart enough in the pick and roll and like,

2093
01:38:51,960 --> 01:38:55,560
you know, unselfish enough to be good at that. It's

2094
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:59,279
just that, like he's a superstar in the like different

2095
01:38:59,359 --> 01:39:02,239
role that he plays for the Celtics. Like, I just

2096
01:39:02,279 --> 01:39:04,359
think White. You said it the best. Well, White's just

2097
01:39:04,399 --> 01:39:05,840
better at basically everything.

2098
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:09,079
Speaker 1: And they're close enough in age. Murray's twenty eight, Derek

2099
01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:11,600
White is thirty. We know what contracts they're going to

2100
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,159
be on basically through this almost this entire window. Yeah,

2101
01:39:14,159 --> 01:39:20,640
Derek White? Ooh okay, wow Via yoa oh shit? Harvey

2102
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:22,880
or Cooper Flag?

2103
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:27,119
Speaker 2: I mean so I Easton has been phenomenal this year,

2104
01:39:27,359 --> 01:39:32,800
just an elite disruptive defensive player, changes games without scoring

2105
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:37,319
but can score. It's still Cooper Flag because if there

2106
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:40,960
was a draft today, Cooper Flag would be taken ahead

2107
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,039
of Tari Easton. Like, I just don't care. You get

2108
01:39:43,039 --> 01:39:46,000
the rookie scale control of Easton of a flag which

2109
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:48,000
you have now with Easton, but he's closer to the

2110
01:39:48,039 --> 01:39:50,159
end of that. It's just like, I don't know, Like

2111
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:55,600
this is really interesting, but like it's a potential. I

2112
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:57,359
don't know what percentage chance you put on it, but

2113
01:39:57,359 --> 01:40:00,560
a potential like super duper star versus as a player

2114
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:03,960
who's a I think it will be a very good starter,

2115
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:06,720
albeit like a niche guy. For a long time.

2116
01:40:07,039 --> 01:40:09,680
Speaker 1: I get worried because people just want to compare Cooper

2117
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:13,279
Flag to Andre Carolinko. And if I'm thinking top to

2118
01:40:13,279 --> 01:40:16,680
top three pick, I want someone Andre Carolnko was great.

2119
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:20,840
I want someone better than him substantially in those slots.

2120
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:24,239
But like just the idea of having more ball skills

2121
01:40:24,239 --> 01:40:26,399
than Tarry Eastan, you're gonna be concerned about the shooting

2122
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:29,680
this is. I honestly think it might be closer than

2123
01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:32,000
or maybe I'm making it too close. I'll go Cooper

2124
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:32,600
Flag as well.

2125
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,680
Speaker 2: If you think he's Kierlinko, then it's it's we can

2126
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:38,279
have a conversation. If you think it's actually Kevin Garnett,

2127
01:40:38,319 --> 01:40:41,239
then conversation over. And if he's if he's anywhere between

2128
01:40:41,279 --> 01:40:43,640
there closer to the Garnett side, it's it's also over.

2129
01:40:43,720 --> 01:40:47,720
I think this one's yours Dan Bennett via Adam Bennedict

2130
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:49,239
Matherin or Colin Sexton.

2131
01:40:50,039 --> 01:40:52,319
Speaker 1: Is it wrong that this is easy for me? Colin

2132
01:40:52,399 --> 01:40:55,079
Sexton all the way. I think he's not a traditional

2133
01:40:55,119 --> 01:40:57,920
floor general, but hey, guess what, bennecmathern isn't either, And

2134
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:00,800
I think the problems you run into Benanc Mathern are

2135
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:02,279
kind of the same as ever do. I think he's

2136
01:41:02,279 --> 01:41:05,720
more scalable offensively than we thought. Sure, but like this

2137
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:08,399
isn't someone who can defend or rebound at a high

2138
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:10,560
clip relative to what his position is gonna be. Where

2139
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,560
Colin Sexton that you can consider him a one you're

2140
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,840
gonna want maybe some more playmaking around him. I think

2141
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:17,960
he's easier to fit.

2142
01:41:18,479 --> 01:41:18,640
Speaker 2: First.

2143
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't want any of these guys being my best player,

2144
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:22,960
but I think he's easier to fit on a good

2145
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,680
team than Bennic Mathern. Well, like just con sexted and

2146
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:28,199
his playmaking on drives is good enough is better than Mathens. Now,

2147
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:31,319
I would say defensively, Matherns probably better, but the bar

2148
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:34,960
is not high up. And look, if Mathern rebounded a

2149
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:37,319
little bit more, maybe I feel better. But it's Sexton.

2150
01:41:37,439 --> 01:41:37,640
For me.

2151
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,600
Speaker 2: Section's a better player right now, can do more of

2152
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:45,159
the he's neither is obviously he Matherin's definitely not a

2153
01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:48,920
point guard, but Sexton sort of also isn't either. Section

2154
01:41:49,079 --> 01:41:55,319
is a very bad defender, which is the big Here's

2155
01:41:55,319 --> 01:41:57,760
the thing, you know, we're we're kind of I feel

2156
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:00,960
like I've been lower on Mathern has been high on it,

2157
01:42:01,039 --> 01:42:03,039
but I feel like I've been lower. I'm I'm leaning

2158
01:42:03,079 --> 01:42:04,159
Matherin because of the youth.

2159
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:07,359
Speaker 1: Well, well I just looked it up. Do you know

2160
01:42:07,399 --> 01:42:08,600
how old Collin sext it is?

2161
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:09,800
Speaker 2: Was he like twenty five?

2162
01:42:10,359 --> 01:42:12,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's about to turn twenty six. So it's not

2163
01:42:13,279 --> 01:42:15,840
I'll give me Sexton. This is obviously it's comfortable for me.

2164
01:42:16,279 --> 01:42:19,600
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's harder for me. I think I

2165
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:22,840
go Matherin. It's three years is a dec or? What

2166
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:24,520
is it? No, it's more than three years? How old's

2167
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:25,800
mathering is he twenty two?

2168
01:42:26,039 --> 01:42:26,399
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2169
01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:30,520
Speaker 2: Okay, I think the foul drawing for Matherin is really intriguing.

2170
01:42:31,039 --> 01:42:34,079
I guess if you think Sexton can be your point

2171
01:42:34,079 --> 01:42:36,279
guard in a pinch, which he sort of has been,

2172
01:42:36,279 --> 01:42:37,640
I just don't know how good he's been at it.

2173
01:42:38,039 --> 01:42:39,159
I think I'm gonna go Matherin.

2174
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:42,199
Speaker 1: It's very close, though, Tied Jerome for the next five

2175
01:42:42,279 --> 01:42:43,520
years or Peyton Richard.

2176
01:42:44,399 --> 01:42:48,720
Speaker 2: I mean, this Tied Jerome season has been insane, Like

2177
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:50,920
I don't know if he's still leading the league in

2178
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:53,359
three point shooting, but it's probably still over fifty percent,

2179
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:56,600
and he has not missed a floater all year, and

2180
01:42:56,680 --> 01:43:00,319
it has been good defensively, and so I just I

2181
01:43:00,359 --> 01:43:02,920
think I have And Pritchard has taken a leap too,

2182
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:05,920
like as double digit score making threes.

2183
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:07,760
Speaker 1: He's definitely a better passer.

2184
01:43:08,359 --> 01:43:11,520
Speaker 2: I have to trust that. I can't. But I don't

2185
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:13,479
know how much longer I'd need to see Ty Jerome

2186
01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:16,800
do this to change my opinion. Uh, I just know

2187
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,800
it hasn't been long enough. So I'll go Prichard just

2188
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:23,119
because they're TI. Jerome has probably been better, even though

2189
01:43:23,119 --> 01:43:26,159
Pritchard has been the best he's been this season. But

2190
01:43:26,199 --> 01:43:28,720
Pritchard's been some version of this for a while, and

2191
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:30,640
Ti Jerome has never been anything close to this, So

2192
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:31,680
I'll go Prichard.

2193
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:34,119
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Ti Jerome. I don't feel great

2194
01:43:34,159 --> 01:43:36,000
about it because two of the things that I think,

2195
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:38,840
I guess Peyton Pritchard's twenty seven, he's not super young.

2196
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:41,720
He's gonna be twenty seven, and Tigerome is gonna be

2197
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,000
twenty eight. I'm going Ti Jerome, I think the biggest

2198
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:46,159
cause for pause for me. I'm gonna go with the

2199
01:43:46,199 --> 01:43:48,960
higher ceiling player who doesn't need to dominate, like like

2200
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:52,520
he could be Plugger Play. But Peyton Pritchard has like

2201
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:54,880
three more years left on a super cheap deal. I'm

2202
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:57,159
very curious to see what Ti Jerome gets in free

2203
01:43:57,199 --> 01:43:58,039
agency this time.

2204
01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:01,039
Speaker 2: Gonna is someone gonna say Ty Jerome is our starter,

2205
01:44:01,319 --> 01:44:03,000
like and pay him that way?

2206
01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:05,479
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Though? Like, if you told me

2207
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:08,439
it's Ti Jerome, he's gonna stay healthy and you're paying

2208
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:11,560
him what fifteen million, I'm probably still picking Ti Jerome.

2209
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:13,720
But if you think someone's gonna come over the top

2210
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:18,680
and just get weird and offer twenty or something, I mean, I.

2211
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:21,800
Speaker 2: Just need to see Ti Jerome play more than fifty games.

2212
01:44:21,800 --> 01:44:24,119
In a season at some point and be good, which is.

2213
01:44:24,039 --> 01:44:26,640
Speaker 1: The sad story on this one though, Grant, Thanksgiving night.

2214
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:29,039
I put this together for you all. You're welcome putting

2215
01:44:29,079 --> 01:44:31,840
it work. I took an edible after I was done,

2216
01:44:32,159 --> 01:44:34,079
and for some reason, as soon as it kicked in,

2217
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:38,560
I had this like impulse to double check something about

2218
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:42,680
Dabite's offensive rebounding, so I went and was looking at it.

2219
01:44:43,359 --> 01:44:46,039
I think I lean him here. I know Jalen Smith

2220
01:44:46,079 --> 01:44:49,439
brings the floor spacing element, but like he's Dbday's proven

2221
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:51,279
to be Diabote. Excuse me, he's been proven to be

2222
01:44:51,319 --> 01:44:55,920
a serviceable big. You just look at the the Hornets

2223
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:58,960
are generating like eighteen point two second chance opportunities per

2224
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,319
one hundred posessons. When he's on the court, that drops

2225
01:45:01,359 --> 01:45:04,279
down to like twelve point one. When he's off the court.

2226
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:08,600
They are rebounding Grant thirty nine percent of their missed

2227
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:12,199
threes with Musa as their five, and then when he's

2228
01:45:12,199 --> 01:45:16,199
off the court that falls to twenty five. I like

2229
01:45:16,279 --> 01:45:18,399
that out of a big who I think can do

2230
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:20,880
more of the traditional my point being the traditional big

2231
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:23,880
man stuff than than Jalen Smith can. I think Moosa

2232
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:26,319
is the better rim protector as well. But this is

2233
01:45:26,359 --> 01:45:27,920
what I was thinking about why I was stoned on

2234
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:29,840
Thanksgiving night, was this is the one that was keeping

2235
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:32,159
me up. Apparently this is so.

2236
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:37,039
Speaker 2: I mean, Smith is has the like, oh, we can

2237
01:45:37,079 --> 01:45:39,800
shoot it as a big guy, so that I don't

2238
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:42,000
know if i'd call that a that like that's his

2239
01:45:42,119 --> 01:45:45,479
like that's his like defining skill, would you say? Right, Like,

2240
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:47,479
he's a big guy that can space and like get

2241
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:50,760
him up quick with volume and fairly accurate, has been

2242
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:55,239
very accurate in small roles. Diabat is just like hustles

2243
01:45:55,279 --> 01:45:57,760
really hard and is awesome at getting offensive rebounds. And

2244
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:00,199
I mean, like he's shooting thirty six percent from the

2245
01:46:00,239 --> 01:46:02,600
foul line this year. He's never been over sixty five

2246
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:05,119
percent in the previous two seasons. Tiny samples are like,

2247
01:46:05,680 --> 01:46:08,399
what's this dude gonna do other than chase down offensive boards?

2248
01:46:08,399 --> 01:46:09,520
And how valuable is that?

2249
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:13,199
Speaker 1: I think? I I still Robinson like fourteen million a year.

2250
01:46:14,239 --> 01:46:17,600
Speaker 2: Still I still lean Diabate because, like, I think we've

2251
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:20,760
seen enough evidence to suggest that Jalen Smith's ability to

2252
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:23,439
hit the occasional three like doesn't actually matter. And he's

2253
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:26,359
he's bounced between three teams already and it's not enough

2254
01:46:26,439 --> 01:46:29,720
to like make him a super valuable piece from Hayden

2255
01:46:29,800 --> 01:46:31,880
Son's Jade and Ivy or Amen Thompson.

2256
01:46:32,159 --> 01:46:33,920
Speaker 1: This is easy, Amen Thompson, right.

2257
01:46:34,199 --> 01:46:34,880
Speaker 2: No doubt, am.

2258
01:46:35,039 --> 01:46:38,279
Speaker 1: I know we have questions about uh shooting for Ahmed Thompson,

2259
01:46:38,279 --> 01:46:40,199
but we had questions about Jay and Ivy shooting until

2260
01:46:40,279 --> 01:46:44,159
this year. And Amen Thompson just the playmaker in transition.

2261
01:46:44,199 --> 01:46:46,840
He's the defensive terror, and I think he's someone who

2262
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:48,800
you could move, like if you need him to play

2263
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:50,399
the one at some point, I think he might be

2264
01:46:50,399 --> 01:46:51,880
able to do it, but you need to play the two,

2265
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:53,680
three or four. He we also know that he could

2266
01:46:53,720 --> 01:46:54,000
do it.

2267
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:58,520
Speaker 2: I would say, Uh, this is maybe not the best

2268
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:00,560
time to say it, because Ivy won a game the

2269
01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:04,000
other day and was really good, including the buzzer beater.

2270
01:47:04,359 --> 01:47:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what, you didn't bring that up

2271
01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:08,000
for Anthony Black when it was Anthony Black versus Jay

2272
01:47:08,039 --> 01:47:08,479
and Ivy.

2273
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm a selective buzzer beater cider.

2274
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:12,119
Speaker 1: Uh.

2275
01:47:12,199 --> 01:47:15,520
Speaker 2: Thompson takes games over and it doesn't often have much

2276
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:17,920
to do with scoring, Like he really does just become

2277
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:20,479
the most influential player on the court. Because of his

2278
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:23,920
athleticism in defense and anything else after that is gravy.

2279
01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:26,640
And I do think he is maybe one of the

2280
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:29,720
most exciting test cases for like can you teach someone

2281
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,439
to shoot? Because if he can shoot, it, like we're done.

2282
01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:34,439
He's just he's one of the best two way players

2283
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:35,000
in the league.

2284
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 1: If he can't, you're still taking him though, Yeah, next up, Oh,

2285
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:41,039
this is gonna be a nice little choice. Wow, this

2286
01:47:41,079 --> 01:47:43,960
is like pitting us against each other, Duce McBride or

2287
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:48,239
Brandon Pajemski. This one comes from Mike hurnishing Again, I.

2288
01:47:48,199 --> 01:47:50,800
Speaker 2: Need to look up what Deuce is shooting because that

2289
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:53,600
kind of and he's probably well, is he the better defender?

2290
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:55,560
Pods is like a different kind of defender because they'll

2291
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:57,199
just stand in there and take rod.

2292
01:47:57,680 --> 01:47:59,279
Speaker 1: Let's not do this. He's a better defender.

2293
01:47:59,319 --> 01:48:02,680
Speaker 2: He's probably the better defender. But what's his what's his

2294
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:04,560
on what's his plus minus? You know, well, how is

2295
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:07,880
he influencing winning with tangibles? And and make it?

2296
01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:11,800
Speaker 1: The answer has to be Pods, right because Duce basically

2297
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,720
is going to be a three and D off guard.

2298
01:48:14,359 --> 01:48:17,279
Speaker 2: And like undersized at that right, So like, yeah, but

2299
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,439
you feel okay, with deuce on on like wing sized guys,

2300
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:22,560
or is he more of a guarding one two guy.

2301
01:48:23,039 --> 01:48:25,600
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable with him guarding wing sized guys now.

2302
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:28,199
Speaker 2: I don't feel comfortable with pods guarding like almost anybody

2303
01:48:28,199 --> 01:48:30,479
in a stand still situation. Like he's okay and he'll

2304
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:33,680
make the right decision. But I think, yeah, I think

2305
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:37,680
it's Pajemski, but it's not like I mean, I don't

2306
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:41,039
I if Pajemsky can't score, if he can't be someone

2307
01:48:41,119 --> 01:48:43,319
if like, if this is what he is offensively, then

2308
01:48:43,680 --> 01:48:45,840
I don't know, man Like, it's probably McBride. I guess

2309
01:48:45,880 --> 01:48:47,359
this is just a bet on he can't be this

2310
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:52,479
bad offensively forever. Okay, all right, Dan Jalen Johnson who's

2311
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:55,720
taking leap number two uh in a row, or Franz

2312
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:58,000
Wagner who's taking his own leap this year. This is

2313
01:48:58,000 --> 01:48:59,079
from Brian Sporik.

2314
01:48:59,800 --> 01:49:02,920
Speaker 1: It's Franz Wagner for me. I mean he's averaging thirty

2315
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:05,239
seven points per one hundred posessions when Palo's off the

2316
01:49:05,239 --> 01:49:07,319
floor and still connecting on over fifty percent of his

2317
01:49:07,359 --> 01:49:11,159
twos during that time. I don't know if he'll ever

2318
01:49:11,239 --> 01:49:14,199
drive like a regularly efficient offense on his own as

2319
01:49:14,239 --> 01:49:17,640
the number one or the number two. But Jalen Johnson

2320
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:19,319
just I don't even think he has close to the

2321
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:22,159
level of self career, Like there's good passing there, but

2322
01:49:22,199 --> 01:49:25,520
like Franz Wagner passes as like the jump starter initiator

2323
01:49:25,520 --> 01:49:27,079
of an offense. I think he's by the way, he's

2324
01:49:27,079 --> 01:49:29,319
everything like ten asists per one hundred posessions without Palo

2325
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:32,119
on the court to Jalen Johnson's credit. The last time

2326
01:49:32,159 --> 01:49:34,199
I checks, who's at nine asis Perne Hunter without Trey,

2327
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:36,319
But it's just different. I'm gonna go with someone who's

2328
01:49:36,319 --> 01:49:39,800
the better chance of being the offensive initiator. But I

2329
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:42,640
do think you could make the case that Johnson's more

2330
01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:46,800
plug and play offensively. I think Franz Wagner, though currently

2331
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:49,479
has a decided at Like if you're trying to pick

2332
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:51,760
the better defender right now or who you trust to

2333
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:54,239
build your like help build your defense, I'm going with Franz.

2334
01:49:55,079 --> 01:49:57,800
Speaker 2: I think I go with Franz too. This would have

2335
01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:01,239
been a fascinating conversation to have before the season started

2336
01:50:02,199 --> 01:50:04,399
because of when the contract seems so like, oh, I

2337
01:50:04,399 --> 01:50:07,279
don't know about that. For Franz I think it's Franz.

2338
01:50:07,319 --> 01:50:11,000
I think that his facility as like a basically a

2339
01:50:11,039 --> 01:50:15,199
first option like singular creator. It's pretty impressive. And like

2340
01:50:15,640 --> 01:50:19,039
the shooting questions that he has, you know, he's thirty

2341
01:50:19,079 --> 01:50:22,039
five percent this year, Johnson's are kind of the same,

2342
01:50:22,239 --> 01:50:25,279
Like they're both pretty comparable, like career wise from three.

2343
01:50:25,399 --> 01:50:27,680
So like, give me Franz a little better at getting

2344
01:50:27,680 --> 01:50:31,279
to the foul line the facilitation that like, I think

2345
01:50:31,319 --> 01:50:35,439
it's Franz. Do you think is there a case for Johnson?

2346
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,039
Is it just like, oh, the athleticism and the upside

2347
01:50:38,119 --> 01:50:41,199
seems higher because Franz is like you know, I don't know,

2348
01:50:41,279 --> 01:50:43,399
not going to guard centers or like that kind of thing.

2349
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:45,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think could you also just look at the

2350
01:50:45,239 --> 01:50:47,920
contract and feel more comfortable at some point getting what

2351
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:50,079
you're getting from Joe and Johnson at twenty five a

2352
01:50:50,159 --> 01:50:52,800
year versus Franz. Who is I mean, I don't think

2353
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:54,880
he'll get the Supermax, but I guess he's not outside

2354
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:57,479
the realm of all NBA possibility right now that that

2355
01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:00,800
might be the only factor I would I would consider.

2356
01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:03,479
Speaker 2: I think it's Fronz. I think that's right. Is this

2357
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:04,680
media I'm gonna read this.

2358
01:51:05,239 --> 01:51:06,319
Speaker 1: I know it's the last one.

2359
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,720
Speaker 2: Oh okay, this would be a BJP. Uh choose a twin,

2360
01:51:11,319 --> 01:51:12,680
Caleb Martin or Cody Martin.

2361
01:51:13,399 --> 01:51:14,760
Speaker 1: I was hoping it was a plumb Lee. Are there

2362
01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:17,119
any twins that are Plumbleys? And I'm like, are they twins?

2363
01:51:17,119 --> 01:51:17,439
Who knows?

2364
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:20,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, so no, they're not twins anyway, the Lopezes.

2365
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:22,319
We've got some twins there, the Morrises.

2366
01:51:23,359 --> 01:51:27,560
Speaker 1: I think it's h Cody's such a health risk, but

2367
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:30,239
I think he's the better player. And I will I'll

2368
01:51:30,239 --> 01:51:32,640
say this, before there was Caleb Martin, like there was

2369
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:34,960
a reason that he wasn't on the hornets anymore because

2370
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:36,039
he wasn't Cody Martin.

2371
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:40,000
Speaker 2: And I think I didn't hit their quota. They can

2372
01:51:40,079 --> 01:51:41,640
only keep one because that was out of it.

2373
01:51:43,039 --> 01:51:47,359
Speaker 1: I think, I like, I know, you just can't cast

2374
01:51:47,359 --> 01:51:49,560
off health here. Greg. Could you let me know what

2375
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:51,600
the difference in age between the two is.

2376
01:51:51,800 --> 01:51:54,560
Speaker 2: It's like a couple of minutes a minute, I don't know.

2377
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:55,920
Usually it's right around there.

2378
01:51:56,680 --> 01:52:00,279
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go with Cody. I actually think he's

2379
01:52:00,319 --> 01:52:04,079
more of the like complete versatile player than Caleb Martin is.

2380
01:52:05,079 --> 01:52:06,920
And we just haven't seen it as much because of

2381
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:08,720
the health and he's also been on to pretty bad

2382
01:52:09,159 --> 01:52:11,960
Hornets teams. I'm gonna go with Cody Martin here, who

2383
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:12,439
are you taking?

2384
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,920
Speaker 2: I'm going Caleb a couple of reasons, better career shooter

2385
01:52:16,199 --> 01:52:20,319
and two like have seen him make a real difference

2386
01:52:20,359 --> 01:52:23,079
on a winning team. Like that's not to say Cody

2387
01:52:23,119 --> 01:52:25,840
couldn't have done exactly the same thing, Like it's just

2388
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,279
and maybe it was Cody for all we know for

2389
01:52:28,359 --> 01:52:30,760
those Heat teams that were in the finals, like probably

2390
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:33,840
who knows if they switched. I think it's Caleb. Like

2391
01:52:34,239 --> 01:52:36,680
it's kind of annoying a lot of so like take

2392
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:39,520
the Lopezes for example. This this happened with the Morrises

2393
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:42,720
where one was bet like Markif was the better Morris

2394
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:44,920
for a minute, and then Marcus overtook him, and then

2395
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:47,520
Markif had a moment and I'm not sure where ultimately

2396
01:52:47,640 --> 01:52:51,000
it ended up. Like these two guys seem really similar,

2397
01:52:51,359 --> 01:52:54,159
and I would say like Caleb probably is regarded as

2398
01:52:54,199 --> 01:52:56,760
the better one because he got was more prominent like

2399
01:52:56,800 --> 01:53:00,199
on some good Heat teams. But like I don't what

2400
01:53:00,239 --> 01:53:03,119
do you distinguish between the two, Like what's the what's

2401
01:53:03,119 --> 01:53:06,479
the difference? You know there, it's harder like you usually

2402
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:10,079
twins that's like one or the other is like discernibly better.

2403
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:13,119
But these guys are like among the closest set of twins.

2404
01:53:13,159 --> 01:53:15,720
I can remember the Thompson's like amends ahead of us

2405
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:18,800
are right now, but who knows like they're they're also

2406
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:21,640
kind of similar. I'll go Caleb, just to split it

2407
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:22,239
down the middle.

2408
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:23,119
Speaker 1: This is fun.

2409
01:53:23,439 --> 01:53:26,159
Speaker 2: I mean, thanks everybody that threw these out to us,

2410
01:53:26,199 --> 01:53:29,439
because left to our own devices, I think we would

2411
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:31,600
have just not thought of like ninety percent of these.

2412
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:34,039
So I think I think that was a that was

2413
01:53:34,039 --> 01:53:35,239
a good use of the crowd.

2414
01:53:36,279 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 1: I have nothing else. Do you have anything else? Are

2415
01:53:37,880 --> 01:53:39,159
you ready to take us out here? That's it.

2416
01:53:39,199 --> 01:53:42,359
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody, especially those that, uh, well we should say

2417
01:53:42,359 --> 01:53:44,119
sorry if we didn't pick yours because there were a

2418
01:53:44,159 --> 01:53:46,640
lot of submissions. We just kind of went with uh

2419
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:49,560
some some percentage of them. But thanks for thanks for

2420
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:52,319
the submissions. Thanks to everyone for listening, for watching. Uh

2421
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:55,800
Please remember rate review subscribe wherever you're listening to your podcast.

2422
01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,640
You see this on YouTube, make sure you're subscribed there.

2423
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,000
Thumbs up in the comments comment talk to us like,

2424
01:54:01,359 --> 01:54:04,239
you know, I'm sure you diverge from our opinions on

2425
01:54:04,279 --> 01:54:06,560
several of these, so let us know, make a good

2426
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:08,520
argument for why we were wrong on one or one

2427
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:12,079
or several. Join our discord. That is where a lot

2428
01:54:12,079 --> 01:54:14,720
of these submissions came from. Links for that in the

2429
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:17,039
YouTube and podcast description. As Dan mentioned at the top,

2430
01:54:17,079 --> 01:54:19,000
there's also what a twenty percent off. We got a

2431
01:54:19,039 --> 01:54:22,560
special merch deal going right now if you would like.

2432
01:54:22,560 --> 01:54:25,319
Speaker 1: Code mode promo, code sickle Mode.

2433
01:54:25,079 --> 01:54:28,840
Speaker 2: Promo, code Sicko Mode. Get get outfitted in all the

2434
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:30,840
latest Hardwood Knocks gears.

2435
01:54:30,680 --> 01:54:32,560
Speaker 1: If you already have them. They made great gifts for

2436
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:34,720
tis the season.

2437
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:37,960
Speaker 2: Tis the season. Let's go. Yeah, put your kids in them.

2438
01:54:38,079 --> 01:54:41,000
You got kids walk his kids into a human billboard

2439
01:54:41,159 --> 01:54:44,079
walking billboards. I sent them to school and kids kids

2440
01:54:44,079 --> 01:54:45,760
are like, what's hardwood knocks? And they're like, you're not

2441
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:47,720
cool enough to know, don't worry about it. And then

2442
01:54:47,880 --> 01:54:51,920
it goes by marketing genius. Yeah, that's gonna do it.

2443
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:54,479
I think I covered everything. Shouts out Frank Milchin. Apologies,

2444
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:55,039
Jared Allen