Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos. I am Dan Valley coming
at you with my certified d lumber jack co host
mister Grant. We're in the Backer's cap right now. Super
trendy and cool. If you're watching on YouTube, we're here
with I don't know if it's long awaited. I think
we only teased it for a few days, but we're
doing a mega Which NBA player would you rather have
on your team for the next five years. We'll get
into the considerations, but you submitted. We got a ton
of answers or submissions. We're gonna see how many we
can get to. I've chosen the best fifty and we're
just gonna try and go through couplings before we get
to that, though very quickly. Promo code Sickle Mode at
our merch shop will get you twenty percent off of everything,
no matter how much do you spend, no matter how
many items you get. We got cool shit like you
can get these in hats, but these designs are also
in shirts Proud Sicco which has been I'm wearing a
sweatshirt right now that has that Grant's got on the I.
Speaker 2: Don't know if this is even in the shop anymore.
But I have I do have the hard Knock's hat on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's for the sickos hat and our est that's
actually been the most popular design we've sold, Grant. No
one wants to have a Sicko Mode. It's up there too. Again,
you can get these all on clothes. But and if
I remember, I'll throw the QR code on screen. Some
people like that, but promo code Sicko Mode at siko
m ode. That's the best way to support the show.
But enough self promotion unless I want. I do want
to know though, about my co host and how he
is doing so, Grant, how are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing very well. I just since we're gonna make
it a habit of comment on my shirts. I don't
do this purposely, but I really am blending in with
the background. Again, I feel like I have like this
is a blue shirt and a kind of blue gray background,
so I'm mostly invisible. But you know, the takes will
be so busy.
Speaker 1: That's the esthetic, though, is you wanted only to slightly
differentiate from your decorse so that when you are selling
items and putting it on TikTok and linking out to
your Amazon shop, obviously, like that's the new wave of
influencer dumb or something sound how about this exercise, though.
Speaker 2: I'm excited because of the sheer breadth of like options
we've been given. Like some are, yeah, that's a conversation
we should have, and then some are like, I have
not thought of that ever before. So comparing these two players,
so I think it should be good as usual. It
will be very difficult for us to move quickly through
the ones that should be moved through quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, you'll get priority of here
in our discord when we ever run these types of exercises,
So join our discord the link that's the podcasting YouTube description.
So looking at this though, before we really get into it.
One the order is rand is for the most part random.
Grant doesn't know what's coming at all. In what order
I don't know because I randomized them, except I did
try to block. We have a lot of LaMelo Zion
and I think Alobank Carrol's in there. A bunch is
also sort of a McCain run we have, so I
have ordered those or try to together. But otherwise there's
gonna be land mines about players maybe you don't care
about or maybe some people haven't heard of. That's why
you should stick around for the entire thing. Is there
any sort of approach when you're looking at these I
think that one of the things that I got asked
the most about is how are you considering contracts in
this five years? Because I think we talk the most
about age, obviously, talent, skill set fit, and we're both
going to look at it as Hey, we're trying to
build a team to win as much as possible in
the next five years, so that's pretty straightforward. But how
do you factor in contracts to the equation? Is it
sort of the one? I think the biggest differentiator for
me is if someone's on a rookie scale versus if
someone's on a mega deal already. That might be a
bigger factor. Otherwise I don't know how much that it
actually I guess if someone's on a bad deal, But
like we have the whole point of this exercise, we
have very few of just this person's on a contract
that sucks, so you would clearly pick this person anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's case by case. I think just as long
as you stay true to the idea being you are
trying to put this player on a team and win
as much as you can, Like you sort of can't
do that without thinking about the cost because there's just
only so much you can spend as a team. So
that's going to be a factor. That's a big one.
Like I think age is a factor in a lot
of cases, although there are several that are like it's
close enough to not make a huge difference in some
of these comparisons. I thought it was interesting that a
lot of these do just sort of pair guys that
are in similar age brackets, so that may not come
up as much, but it's just kind of a holistic
given what this guy does or may be able to
do going forward or may not depending on where you
are in the player's career trajectory and the cost, Like
just who do you want for five years? And you
can throw in I mean, look, we're gonna talk about LaMelo,
so it's like you can throw in how good of
a leader will this guy be and will that be
the role he needs to play on whatever hypothetical you know,
So it's all it's pretty global. It's just kind of
designed to let's assess like where these guys are and
you know, the pluses and minuses going forward.
Speaker 1: And the final thing I've given consideration to is you
don't really know. And I think that's part of the
challenge and the fun of this is that you're not
necessarily saying we want because some of these players aren't superstars.
You're not saying we want. This guy's our starting point
of how we're building a team with a winner. So
you almost have to envision, Okay, well he's not going
to be the only guy, but we also don't know
what type of team we're putting him onto, So that
comes into part. If you think someone's more scalable than another,
that's going to be a vote like in their favor
for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there will just be guys that this is
like my least favorite kind of player where it's like
he has to play this outsized role and he's just
not good enough to be that number one guy, but
he sort of has to, you know what I mean.
Like that player type is really tricky, and there are
going to be some of those here.
Speaker 1: Let's get to it. We begin with a banger from
Cavsanada Grant and I think we'll alternate just sort of
reading them off. I'll go first, Darius Garland or Tyre's Halliburton.
Who would you rather have for the next five years?
Speaker 2: Man, we really do start with a tough one. I
would say, had we done this a week ago, two
weeks ago, I think Garland would have been the much
easier pick. But Halliburton has finally had a couple of
good like, oh, there he is, you know those kind
of games lately. I'm gonna lean Halliburton. I hate you know,
I'm not gonna pontificate too much before just saying so.
I guess that's just really a vote in favor of
He's closer to the guy he was pre hamstring injury
last year than the guy he's been this year, certainly,
and for long stretches of last season, which is like
a singular driver of excellent offense. Garland is awesome. We've
never seen him in the kind of role that Haliburton
has played, you know, where he's the be all end all.
I don't know that Garland is incapable of doing that.
I've just seen Halliburton do it. So it's but it
is close, man, Like I really I wouldn't like. I
don't know which way you're going. We haven't discussed this,
but if you think it's Garland. I can't really fight
you because Halliburton's Low's not to say Garland hasn't had some,
but Haliburton's lows have been like really concerning, you know,
starting this year for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm leaning Garland at this point. And
maybe that's a lot of recency bias and Tyre's Haliburton
has picked up. But when you if we consider the
injury history at this point, where Haliburton's dealt with hamstring
and back issues that have severely limited him, and we're
at a point where also the framing is man Tyre's
Haliburton over his six quarters of last six quarters of
basketball is doing this. Oh so now we're just breaking
it down by half games. He concerns me and Garland. Yes,
he's had his own injury histories, but it's always just
got smacked in the face, couldn't eat. It's it's nothing
that feels chronic. You could get into the contracts too,
of like, well they're gonna run for a similar time
and Garland is not going to be on a SuperMac,
so that I think is a vote in his favor
as well. I'm starting to wonder if Garland is the more.
I don't even know. It's not necessarilyn insult, but doesn't
he feel more plug and play on offense at this
point like we've seen Haliburton and maybe this is a
design of the Pacers, but there've been struggles about how
it took a while for them to figure out how
to use him when they're bringing in this other ballhand
or where's Garland? Yes, him and Donovan Mitchell went through
odd stretches and less than ideal stretches, but by and large,
like he's also emerged with someone who, oh, we want
him to run the offense, even though we have Donovan
Mitchell and Evan Mobley and so the fact he could
play off of them, but you've also have that level
of belief and conviction and what he's doing scoring from
basically every level this season, it's him for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, Like, would you say that Halliburton's the
best version of Haliburton is better than what we've seen
as the best version of Garland.
Speaker 1: Yes, it would probably come down to a and both
of these players are young enough to where maybe neither
has reached their peak, So it comes down to what's
the feasibility of them sustaining the peaks that we know of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look again, like I said, I can't fault you.
I think as I'm just talking it out, that's it
for me, which is to say, like I've seen Haliburton
be like an MVP contender on the level that Garland
just has hit and that the problem with that is
like what if that was just a fluke and he
can't get back to that and Garland Garland's Maybe is
Garland the higher floor? Like is that?
Speaker 1: I don't know he has to be because I do
think the health stuff and someone in our comments that
brought us about like maybe is that why the Kings
ultimately dealt him is because one, you know, we're going
back to scalability, the partnership with the Aaron Fox wasn't
working out. I still think they could have figured something out,
but if they were actually concerned about his body holding up.
But so, I do think that Garland absolutely has the
higher floor, which which fact that's fair.
Speaker 2: I'll send you this one, Dan. This is from Nicole
cha Cole. Out of our discord. We got herb Jones
and Keegan Murray.
Speaker 1: Who you taking? I think I lean herb Jones at
this point Kegan Murray's become a really, really good defender,
and he has the higher ceiling as an offensive player,
but he has struggled part of that this year with
his shot, and part of that might just be okay,
now you've added another cook in the kitchen with the
mart Ro's in, and there's been inconsistent, not inconsistent, but
he missed sometime. But I look at Herb Jones and
I don't think, like, maybe Keegan Murray makes some all
defense teams. We know Herb Jones is gonna have how
many all defense teams by the time he hangs up,
And I think he's improved off offensive offensively is no,
he's not quite pass, dribble and shoot, but like he
can do a little bit of all of those things now.
And I would be interested to see, honestly, with both
of these guys, what could they maybe do in a
half court with better spacing around them. I think it's
Herb Jones for me because I think there's still that
clear separator on defense between the two, and I don't
I haven't seen a version of Keegan Murray, and by design,
of course, with the way the Kings are set up,
I don't know that I trust Keegan Murray's offense enough
to say that I want him over Herb Jones for
the next half decade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I lean Herb to one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My favorite are the premium skill argument, Like we know
Herb Jones is just elite at a thing, that just
he's one of the best defensive players in the league,
super versatile. That shows up in the stats with the
steel rate and all that stuff. But he's just you
watch him and that guy's one of the best defensive
players in the league. I think if you go Murray one,
you're banking on you, like, say, his rookie year shooting
being more real than his twenty eight percent from three
this year. And you're also probably persuaded that a lot
of his perceived underperformance again, his defense has improved and
he is very good there. Now he's not Herb Jones.
A lot of his underperformance owes to like just the
role that he's in on this Kings team, where it's
like he just isn't gonna get a lot of chances
right to one get shots up, but two just explore like, oh,
maybe he can do more of X, Y and Z,
which we've seen signs of but like if you're on
team Keegan, it's it's a lot of it has to be.
There's more here that in another situation he could tap
into and that might be right, But I think I
feel safe for going with I know Herb Jones is
going to be able to guard whoever the other team's
best player is, be passable, and maybe get a little
better as an offensive player, Like you shot over forty
percent from three last year. Not crazy volume, but like
you get a little of that, you get a little
pick and roll ball handling, Like that's enough I think
for the defense to take it.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how much this should factor in,
But like Herb Jones has two more years after this
one left on his deal where it's very team friendly,
Keegan Murray has one year of cost controlled in it.
I'm assuming he's gonna get a deal that well outstrips
Herb Jones. How much was Herb Jones getting his next
deal wasn't a huge factor for me, but this was
a good one. Next up we have Chet Holmgren or
Evan Mobley. This also came from Kavsanada made two at
the top because I found these to be so fascinating grant,
who are you taking for the next five years?
Speaker 2: These are just brutal. This is kind of like there's
there's a little bit of a Haliburton Garland parallel here
with Mobley. Again, you don't talk about floors with guys
like this necessarily, but the injury stuff with Holmgren, Now, granted,
these are two like fairly certainly this latest one is
a fluke catastrophic ugly fall, you know, not like, oh,
he's got you know, calf injuries that won't go away
or hamstrings or whatever. It still concerns me because now
we're you know, he's missed a full season, was awesome
last year and is gonna miss you know, several more
weeks this year. I think I think I still probably go,
oh god, I don't even know. I don't know what
to do here. Uh, I'm gonna go Chet. I'm gonna
go Chet because I think he got to a higher
offensive level faster than Mobley did, and I think defensively
they Mobley's probably better now, but I think Chet is
close enough to where I'm more. I think the offensive
upside for Holmegren is probably higher. Quietly, Mobley's numbers are
kind of back down to the level that he was
at last year, and the whole leap angle is less
persuasive than it was a few weeks ago. It's this
is the closest so far though. I'm going Chet, But
I love Evan Mobley, and Mobley's is the safer pick.
Speaker 1: And he's also who I'm choosing. I'm going with MOBILEI
I like the I don't know what chet ceiling is
on offense anymore. And I think what I like about
Mobili is if you put MOBILEI in I know, he
doesn't have the same quote unquote range, like the same jumper,
but if you put Mobile in Oklahoma City spacing, yeah,
he ends up being better overall. I think than Chet.
I find what he does defensively scale like Chet might
is the better rim protector overall. But I think with Mobile,
even though he plays with Allen, I don't feel the
need if you need to go out and give another
big man thirty million dollars a year where you did
that because you felt like you were too frail on
the front line against opponents. But also I think this
might just be the deciding factor. Do I think that Mobili.
I really do think Mobile's gonna wind up when we
look back being the better passer, someone getting downhill, like
making those types of decisions, someone who could be more
of an offensive hub. But the hell thing, like I
know you said that, it's kind of that freak fall,
but it's also his body type, like he's just so
long and spindly that these injuries could crop up little
bit more. Also, look, Evan Mobley missed his entire rookie
season with a foot injury, and that's that's. I don't
care who you are, Joelle embiid Chet Holmgren, I don't
care if you're a guard. That's gonna concern me, so Mobili,
But I'm with you that this is close. Homegren does
have Okay, Like Mobile's going to be really expensive next year,
and so Homegren you're gonna have another year of cost
control there that you don't get with mobiley, So I
think that could be a differentiator for some. But just
the the health stuff coupled with how good I really
do believe Evan Mobley is on offense, and it's to
me it's still more of an eye test versus numbers
thing with him a lot of the times on offense,
and I just I see it.
Speaker 2: I think I'll concede that a lot of picking Chet
for me is there's more of a mystery box element
because he's played fewer than one hundred games so far,
whereas Mobili Mobley's growth or lack of it, I guess
it's just been steady, and like somehow his steady improvement
is like disappointing because he's not taking the super Oh
he's not Kevin Garnett like today right now on brown Esque,
where it's he's mentally improved year over a year, yeah, right,
and then and then like who knows if we'd seen
you know, two full seasons or like I guess, yeah,
two plus full seasons from Chet, he might be subject
to some of the same like criticism where it's, oh,
he's not getting so much better. I think fewer games
ironically gives me like makes me more excited because like, oh,
we don't really know yet, whereas with mobile we feel
like we have a sense of what that trajectory is.
But yeah, it's it's tough. I hate this, but I'm going.
Speaker 1: Chet, This this is fun. I knew Cavsanada was gonna
have multiple ones in here, but the fact that they
came in up top I probably didn't do a good
job of randomizing them too much, but my head already
hurts them were only three players and.
Speaker 2: All right, oh okay, this is from our dear friend
of the podcast, Brian Spork Tyres, Maxi, Dan or Jared McCain.
Speaker 1: I hope this is a joke just because like it
has to be Tyrese MAXI is it? You could frame
it strictly as a contract. So, Jared McCain, you have
he's in his rookie seasons, you have these four cost
controlled years versus MAXI is now on a max deal.
Does that change it for you at all? Because the
answer is Maxie. If you throw the contracts out the window,
the answer is Maxie, it's just not even close.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, the what that made me think
of right away was what are the chances McCain is
someone that when his time comes, is pretty much a
no brainer. Max Like, I don't know that what a
great outcome that would be, but I don't know that
that's a given. Whereas Maxi, it was, you know, he
had to wait obviously, but it was like he was
getting that money and nobody was like, oh, that seems
like too much, you know, Maxie is already where you
hope could get.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I was gonna say, I haven't seen
from what McCain is awesome, but do you try Like
the argument against Maxie would be you don't think that
he can run a team on his own. I haven't
seen anything from McCain, at least as a playmaker that
would make me think he's going to be better equipped
to do that at any point in the next half decade.
Speaker 2: Over Tyres, Yeah, I mean like MAXI averaged twenty five
a game last year, was just like a huge driver
of a very good team offensively when everybody was right.
So I mean like if anything like MAXI might have
another level and then it's just like, well, now, how
many how many jumps does McCain have to make over
the next five years to get there? It's a lot.
So I think it's Maxie. But I enjoy the exuberance
of the Philly fandom having McCain in the conversation.
Speaker 1: If you're such a cap obsessive where it's give me
the rookie scale, that's.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, well, I mean, in fairness, he is playing
as a good starter now, like you know, in the
first year of his rookie deal. So whether you I
don't know if how confident we are that's going to sustain.
But like, was that true of MAXI? I mean MAXI
average eight a game started eight times as a rookie.
Different situation, but like I don't know McCain McCain's kind
of McCain might be ahead if we just look at
the age comps.
Speaker 1: Well we had a bunch of McCain's. I'm assuming there's
more on the way here. So grant Jared McCain or
balakol of Bali this is from Brydon the next five years.
Speaker 2: I don't know that this should be easier, but I
think our our Koler Bali allegiance as well understood. I
go blaw. He doesn't. He doesn't have like the like
I feel like I understand roughly what kind of player
McCain is going to be or something close to it.
COOLi Bali, I think is better now and has so
many more pathways to be a star in like you know,
we've talked about this, like maybe he's just a stopper.
Oh and maybe he's a first option pick and roll
ball handler, like his drives of doubled per game, his
pick and roll ball handling efficiency is way up. Like
cool A Bally is cool. Bally has the potential to
be the best, one of the most valuable player types
in the league. And I think McCain's size and athleticism
is like he's just not going to get there ceiling wise,
So it's it's pretty easy cool for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pretty easy cool BALI for me as well.
I like the aspect of even if you think Jared
mc I mean, he does have more ball skills, the
growth that ballas made in just not even two seasons,
but also the idea that you could just put him
on the other team's best player defensively, almost irrespective of
almost regardless of position. Excuse me, I know some people
don't like it when I trip over words. That's easy
ballall for me, rough stretch for Jared McCain. Let's se
if he does any better here.
Speaker 2: Don't think so. Steph Castle versus Jared McCain, you got
to choose first here.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Steph Castle. McCain definitely might have
the higher offensive ceiling, but I've been impressed with Look,
the shooting for Castle is just gonna be a swing
skill I know that the Spurs are putting him in
unique opportunities with the way how far he's spacing behind
the arc. If he ever just becomes a league average
three point shooter, big deal, The defense is hugely different.
You can already just throw him on the other team's
best perimeter player within size reason. And I think the
Spurs still don't have all this ideal spacing, and I
know he's kind of just secondary there. I feel like
he's going to be the better passer. And so if
you view, if we broke it down through, Jared McCain's
gonna be the better score, Steph Castle is gonna be
the better defender. Kind of not that these are the
only three areas, but like one of the bigger separators
would be, well, who's gonna be like the better driver
of table setting for others. I guess McCain still looks
like he'll create better advantages. But some of the passes
that Steph Castle is thrown again in tight spaces, I'm
gonna go with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in the bag for Castle already, and it's
he's under forty percent from the field, like it just
I don't care that the size and the athleticism in
the field and just the burst like it's it. You know,
he's got so many qualities that you just like McCain
just won't have, you know, no matter what. And the
shoot it's I was having a conversation about this yesterday,
like when are we gonna stop like overvaluing the player
type where you say, God, if he can only learn
how to shoot, like I'm talking about the Thompsons and
Castle and just go on. I mean, Herb Jones was
subject to this for a while too, Like it doesn't
happen a lot where it's just like, oh oh, this
like a plus premium athlete that had everything but a shot,
got a shot and then became great. I don't care,
like I still even I'm still going Castle. I think
I think he might be special and and it's way
too early and that's a dumb thing to say, but
I'm I'm pretty sold on him.
Speaker 1: Another Steph Castle one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one, you though I am, I okay, well you
know you got to read it to me, but you think.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sorry, Steph Castle or Jeremy Sohan. This comes
from Steely official Steely Dan, Who do you taking it
for the next five years?
Speaker 2: Grant it's Castle again. I mean Sohn, I still don't
know what he is. I think he's kind of He's
good at a lot of things. He's got the shoot
shooting issue too. He's bigger. He might be more defensively versatile.
I say, Mike, because I think Castle has the potential
to guard up as well as down in ways that
you know, put him on a similar level. Yeah, Castle
has like superstar upside, so Han just like just does not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a pretty easy one. And
also I think the spurs one, so hand's healthy planning
to have some uncomfortable conversations because I don't know defensively, sure,
but offensively, I don't know how you make him and
Wenby work. And even with Steph Castle right now the
fact that you can spin or not that you can,
and like defense are guarding him, but you can a
vision a scenario where okay, he's standing thirty feet away
from the basket and defenses are semi concerned about what
happens next. Yeah, can't do that with Jeremy Sohan.
Speaker 2: No, all right, Dan from Real Syrup, Scottie Barnes or
Jalen Williams oh Man, This one's tough.
Speaker 1: No, it's not. I'm going Scottie Barnes. I think Jalen
Williams is fantastic, but if you have to I don't know,
because Scotty Barnes, if you were to plug him into
a bigger team dynamic, I might wonder how he fares.
But I also think you could probably use him in
more ways, whereas Okay, Toronto set up to use him
in a specific way, but you can get him going
as a screener if you need to. I do trust
that the pull up and the jumpers come along enough
to where Okay, years from now, let's see where it's at.
I would probably still trust him to generate, like run
an offense over Jalen Williams. At this point it's close
the size positionally on defense, I think that helps out.
But we know that Jalen Williams takes jump balls now too,
so how much does that actually matter? Slight margin here,
This is a good one from Real Serra twenty two
to nineteen. I'm gonna go Scottie Barnes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no surprise, I'm going Williams. I just think, like
I don't have any questions about can Jalen Williams do
X you might say, like can he run a good
offense alone? I just think his shooting ability makes that
more plausible. Like I guess talking like number one option
type stuff, like I think he's a more he's better
suited to be a number one option than Barnes is
because of the shooting. Barnes might be more defensively versatile,
might be a better passer. I don't know. I just
Williams just doesn't have a weakness and Barnes the shooting
is gonna be an issue unless he just plays center
all the time or you have you like, you have
to tailor some things to Barnes. I think where Williams
you don't at all really like, And that's kind of
been the knock on him. I guess is that like, yeah,
Williams fits everywhere, but doing the Pallo comparison, for example,
which we might do at some point. I didn't scrutinize
the list, but.
Speaker 1: I actually you don't think we have that one. Sorry
grant you. I'm really scared.
Speaker 2: Of having to decide that one now. I think Williams
is just like a flaw free player that actually can
be a number one option. He's grown so much year
over year that that's like plausible to me, And I
don't know that that's true of Barnes. And I do
know it's true of Barnes that like you got to
figure out is what to do with the guy that
doesn't shoot it great? You know consistently that that's that's
kind of the differentiator for me.
Speaker 1: You might have swayed me. I don't know that that
has a good one. It's close.
Speaker 2: I'll concede that, Oh, you have to give me this one.
Speaker 1: God damn, yeah, you have to give me this one.
Speaker 2: Okay, good via Alejandro, I'll go Shay Gil just Alexander
Dan or Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go. I. So I will say that Jason
Tatum has a stronger case here than many might be
willing to give him. And if you like kind of
break down what the two of them are doing, just
specifically this season, the numbers really aren't terribly different. Shay's
at twenty nine a half points per game six point
four assists, Tatum's at five point eight assists and twenty
eight point four points per game. He is the better,
more willing three point shooter. They're averaging the same number
of free throw attempts per game. Jason Tatum's doing it
in more minutes. Shay, I do think is going to
be craftier on the ball. They've probably become close defensively,
like there with Shaye was getting all defense buzz last year.
I don't know what to do here. It's so interesting
because Shay is of right now is a player that's
more likely to win MVP in any given season. If
you rip Shay out of the com like the construct
of Oklahoma City and put them on a team where
there are like other a plus guys, I'd be curious
to see what he looks like. Oh, I don't know,
I'm going Shay, I try. I do think he's probably
more of a primary playmaker overall, And I think that
if you even put him in a situation where there are
I know you said that you think John Williams can
be a number one option right now, Olahoma City just
doesn't have anyone who creates advantages like even close to
it like Jaln Williams isn't. Yeah, he can get to
to the ball, but it's not like in a way
of a tried and true number two just yet. And
the fact that Shay still is doing what he does.
I'm gonna go with him. I think he has ways.
The biggest difference for me though, is I think he
has more ways to score than Jason Tatum. I think
Jason Dam's comes a long way as to score, but
he is so reliant on kind of the escapism from
three point range. Yeah, that I'm gonna go with SGA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's brutal. And they're such different offensive players, but
like equally, And it is hard to get past the
idea that like Shae is gonna be and has been
closer to winning MVP than Tatum, and like shouldn't and
they're the same age, they're both seventeen, No, they're both
twenty six, So like, shouldn't that decide it? Right? And
I think and but then measured against that, and this
is also unfair. We and I'm more guilty of this
than you. We we've seen Tatum do it and win
a championship, Like we've seen that happen. Now, Jalen Brown
was Finals MVP, so you might want to throw that
in there. I don't like so, but SGA has not
done it yet. I don't know that it's fair to
hold it against him because the Celtics team that's around.
Tatum is just has been better over the you know,
the last couple of years. I'm just I'm just vamping
because I can't decide. I I think I probably I
gotta go Tatum, while conceding that again this year Shaye
will probably be ahead of him an MVP vote.
Speaker 1: I don't know that he will be. Like if you're
not respecting what the Celtics are doing, I mean, Jason
Tatum's passing over the past. He's also he's the wing
sized player that we're all supposed to to come it.
I think I just feel like there's more variance in
his offensive performance regular season postseason than there will be
for SGA, And so I'm going that. But if this
is the toughest one yet.
Speaker 2: A couple couple of other things too. Durability might be
a factor. Now the thunder have like shut Shaye down
a couple of times, so like was he?
Speaker 1: How hurt was he?
Speaker 2: But Tatum is a rock like play seventy plus games
just like clockwork, basically certainly over the last few years.
And I think, like, I think it is a fair
criticism that Tatum is less offensively like diverse, like he
can't you can't match him up against anyone like you
can with Shae, And you're like, well, Shay's gonna get
into the lane and make something happen. Tatum will like
faint and move around and try to get a three off.
But then are we just making the criticism of like, oh,
he's too good, he could get to that three too easily,
and it's like a bailout, Like I'm hesitant to make
it a criticism of someone that can get a three
off at any time, you know, and.
Speaker 1: Right, but I still think does the best version of
Tatum uplift a squad with less overall talent around him
than the best version of Shay would? And then I
do think the answer is no. But then what you
could say is will Shae be as scalable if you
put him on the Celtics? Would he be as good?
And I honestly like the answer is yes. I mean
he can do some more things away from the ball.
He's not a terrible shooter. We've seen him go through
spurs and look the problem with him again, this is
the value of Tatum. But like it's not like Shae
gets all these spot up opportunities, right like nol generated
threes are tough, and it feels like that's why he
might back off of those. That's what Tatum's doing as well.
It feels like there should be no wrong answer, but
there someone's gonna it's I think it's good that we disagree,
but it's close.
Speaker 2: It is super close. Yeah, that's a great that's a
I mean, yeah, really really good comp.
Speaker 1: Next up, mister Hughes, who you take for the next
five years, LaMelo Ball or Darn Fox? We have two
people submit this exact same one, and I will preface
it with this, does mean I think that a run
of LaMelo ball ors are are are coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So obviously Fox has a much longer track record.
He's had his injury issues too, but like, we're not
talking about a guy that we basically didn't see for
two years. And LaMelo's numbers this season are bonkers, like,
you know, a thirty a game, tons of assists. He's
also like shooting a lot, like just you know, getting numbers.
So I think, you know, the the arrow feels like
it's pointing up on ball. But with that comes the
pushback of like his defense is just atrocious, Like he's
fouling out all the time. He's never you watch the games, like,
forget the numbers, he's never in a defensive stance, like
he's just is standing up reaching, like it's really damaging defensively.
And if you are your team's best player, which he obviously,
I mean Brandon Miller is very good, but Ball just
sort of is the key figure on that team. I
think it's a real problem if you're just not giving
a shit defensively, and then there is all the criticism.
But how mature is he? How serious is he? Like
all that stuff. I think Fox has been inconsistent. We've
seen him be really great defensively in the past and
then not so much. I never really feel like Fox
just doesn't compete though, And I think you can make
that criticism of Ball. So give me the longer track record,
the how many one, two, three, four years? Four of
the last five years over twenty five a game Fox
has been to the playoffs has had some success, Like
I think it's durable, more durable. I think it's Fox.
But if you do, if you believe Ball has a
step to go in the next five years and is
willing to do it, like defensively and just from a
professionalism standpoint, that second part's unfair, but like that is
a criticism that's out there, then I could see going
with Ball. I think Fox is just way safer.
Speaker 1: He's way safer, But I also just think he's better.
I think that you might be under selling the If
LaMelo puts together an entire season of doing what he's
doing now without getting hurt, his case becomes stronger. But
the defense is a huge differentiator, plus the durability. And
I think, look, Fox has shown Look at the way
he's scored, like in tight spaces with Sacramento and even now,
like the way he's shooting with both Damar and the
Bonus on the court, I think he was still shooting
like sixty percent from two d. This dude just finds
ways to score. This This step back is more of
a weapon. I know some people don't like it than
is credited. I think it's him That was a good one,
though from Braden. It was gn underscore. The Spicer with
the second one that we got it from. Hit me
with this one, mister Hughes.
Speaker 2: Okay, you've got LaMelo. This is from via Oz ten
LaMelo again or Palo Bancaro.
Speaker 1: It's Palo right, I mean the defense here again is
a big differentiator. Palo's better on defense. LaMelo Ball is
the better passer, He's the better outside scorer. But like
even with LaMelo kind of getting to the line more,
doing a little bit more on drives, the way that
Palo is able to score now, the efficiency is still
gonna be a big deal. Where it's we're finally before
he's getting injured. This is someone who he's gonna hover
around or a lot, like slightly higher than league average
for shooting percentage. But it was like what he does
on offense, Like the advantages that he creates are just
taking the tough shots, drawing in defenders. If you gave
him even a modicom of good spacing, I think we're
probably talking about a much more efficient Palo than we've
even seen. This one's pretty easy for me. I'm going
Pallow here.
Speaker 2: I think it's Pallo and like, yeah, we're going off
the leap he made this year as a five game sample,
but I do think within them last year though, too, right,
So that's what I mean. It's like the the and
he might have a potential superpower as a foul drawer,
which is just like Okay, he's going to be a
hyper efficient scorer if he shoots thirty two percent from three,
because he's gonna get He was getting to the foul
in twelve times a game and just like wh why
yeah right, that's pretty good. Uh watching him play like
he's just his physical advantages are just like undeniable. He's
he's so like adept with the ball and knows how
to use his size and strength at an early at
an age where guys like are still usually figuring that out.
You know, I just think he's going to be just
he's a number one option on a good potentially a
good offense if you put spacing around him, which Orlando
still hasn't done. LaMelo is like what's if Like what's
the what's the matchup problem that LaMelo creates right where
It's like with Palo it's like who do you put
on this guy? And with LaMelo it's like, I don't know,
just put like your wing on him and that's about
as good as you can do and he'll either make
a bunch of threes or not and you know, get
into the l It's just like Palo is such a
bigger problem. I feel like.
Speaker 1: Another Palo ban Caro one oh grant from jt Alexander,
Palo ben Caro or Caid Cunningham.
Speaker 2: So I think I go Pallo again while acknowledging that
Caid is just quietly becoming one of the most complete
players in the league. Uh just has gotten better defensively.
Is obviously like can score can be a facilitator. It
just is is really like it's kind of the Jalen
Williams thing, plus like more playmaking, like natural playmaking, chops
and stuff where it's like, what's the guy's weakness. I
still think Polo strikes me as a guy who's just
going to be more overwhelming and it's not fair. But
from a team's success standpoint, we've just seen Polo be
the lead on a good team and we haven't seen
Kid do it. That's because the team they've put around
him has been just ill fitting from the tell.
Speaker 1: The Pistons have I think already won more games than
they did by the trade deadline.
Speaker 2: They have and they did it by like adding Malik
Beasley and Tobias Harris. It's like, how low is the
bar to put it again? We keep saying this, this
is close, but I just think Paolo has the capacity
to be like, you can't do anything with him.
Speaker 1: So what's interesting is I think that one kid is
somehow still underrated because the word you mentioned is complete.
This is going to be someone who he's one of
the most complete players in the game, but he doesn't.
The other words you use was overwhelming if you scale
ahead to the playoffs, Like Kate and I don't have
a problem, some people have a problem that he's like
he shows his explosion sometimes, but it's not consistent enough.
Palo's going to find ways to score in literally any setting.
We've seen him playing some dog shit spacing units with Orlando.
He's still gonna find ways score. Won't always be efficient,
but the offense is probably gonna be better off for it,
even if it's just making life easier on a player
or two that's beneath him in the pecking order. I
don't know if Caid will ever have that same gear
as a score. He's certainly never going to be the
same foul drawer, And just like is he gonna have
the ability to put pressure on the basket the way
that Paalo can. I the completeness of Kid really comes
close here, but I think it's Palo for me too. Yeah,
next up who we got?
Speaker 2: Oh man? Uh so this is from Brian Spork again,
Palo Bancaro or Chet Holmgren.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I think it's Paalo. You I know
he I Chet is far more plug and play. He's
better defensively. But and I know that this is counterintuited
because Paloll's dealing with an oblique injury, but he is
the more durable player to this point. Now. I think
what is interesting, though, is that both of these guys,
like Chet, you could put anywhere, and Palell feels like
more of a player that you need to uniquely build around.
But I also think that he's worth building around in
that way. Now, if you believe, you know, the spacing
and the driving from Chet on offense, plus the defense,
which again he's better than Palo there, you can play
Chet at center. Palell you could play at center too,
but you would prefer not to. I'm always going to
appreciate the player who I believe can shoulder a more
complicated offensive workload. And despite the strides that Chet has
made the durability here, I I'm going Palo. What I
feel terrible about all these answers?
Speaker 2: I know I do too, and I was just trying
to think, like, Okay, so what transitive property? I took
Chet over more? And if I take Palo over Chet,
does that I mean I also take Palo over mobilely,
how do I feel about that? I think you hit
it right. It's the scalability question which begets the The
real question is like do you think Polo is good
enough to be the number one option? Like that he
sort of has to be, Whereas you're right with Chet,
it's like, Okay, maybe he's just your your stretch five
that block shots, or maybe and maybe there's more offense,
you know, individual offensive like capability ahead for Chet. I
still I go Paalo too, And I think it's just
because I do believe he's worth building around as a
as like a central figure. And I don't know that
if I wouldn't feel that confident about like Chet is
my best player, I build around him like you could
do that, but then we probably get into like do
we need someone who's better than Chet on this team?
Whereas if you have Poalo there, I think you feel
pretty good projecting forwards like he's our best guy and
we're fit stuff around him. We don't need someone better
than him, you know, that that's kind of where it
gets to me.
Speaker 1: It's also why I just want Orlando to have another
initiator aside from like the Franz Wagner Anthony Black types
right now is to see what Palo might look like
in the play finishing aspect. But I do believe, and
I'm not saying swap them on their teams. I'm just saying,
if you put Palo ben Caro on this iteration of
the Thunder, are they as good or better than the
Thunder with Chet Holmgrin.
Speaker 2: I mean, you lose something, You lose the length and
the defense. But I guess if you have Hartenstein, you're
feeling pretty good. And Chet doesn't make the Magic any better,
that's for sure, because he just kind.
Speaker 1: Of even saying put him on the Magic because that's
just like a disngener. I'm just saying, like, because Oklahoma
City is the ultimate team where it's you want to work, like,
concern yourself with scalability, Like they give you this spacing.
They have two guys who can create advantages and Sga
and Jane Williams consistently. They have a bunch of surrounding
versatile defensive talent. Maybe on the smaller side. So if
you doubt Palo's ability to optimize that group or fit
in and make them better than they are now with
the CHET home grind, that might then answer your question
of well, perhaps it should be CHET unless the doorability
is the bigger concern.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a factor too. That, man, another tough one.
I think it's it's Paalo. We got to take the
number one option.
Speaker 1: I think grant Joelle Embiid or Zion Williamson. And this
comes from d knits.
Speaker 2: Five years five years, we have Embiid or Zion? Uh,
how much younger is is Zion? Like a full five
years younger? Four years younger?
Speaker 1: I know you, I remember I like I remember being
shocked at how often he was in the under twenty
three list. For so he's twenty four and doesn't turn
twenty five until July.
Speaker 2: I man, this is the worst possible time to be
doing this because they're both They're both like basically in
the worst case scenario state where Embiid just seems like
he's broken down and Zion has a hamstring that is
never going to get healthy because he's not in shape.
It looks like, uh, I.
Speaker 1: Guess you're gonna blame the hamstring stuff because I am
not in shape? Is what you believe? Is that what's
floating around out.
Speaker 2: There blaming the him? No, I think like I think
it's just really difficult for him to not put a
lot of strain on his body because of how difficult
it seems to be for him to get into like
peak shape.
Speaker 1: Yeahbide has no problem with that, right.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. It's like anything you could say about
one applies to the other.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: Do you just go Embiid because he's his his high
is higher than Zion's ever been, which like he's been
an MVP, he's been a point per minute guy, even
at like pretty clearly last year, not one hundred percent physically,
And then I think I go Embiid. I've seen Embiid
be better than Zion's ever been. I don't have any
confidence in either of them staying healthy going forward. Embid
being older is scary. But I also don't know what
a good team built around Zion looks like because it's
just we've never seen it, and Embiid I have proof
of concept. Uh so I'll go Embiid, But like this
is just I mean, can I take the field or.
Speaker 1: Can I take me either? Can we take ben Caaro
here too? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right, let's keep going Palo every time.
Speaker 1: I'm going with Embiid as well. The age difference is
big because it's but you've seen you mentioned it, the
peak of Embiid. But I also let's assume that they're
both going to be healthy. Now, then you get into
age questions and it's Zion's not even gonna be thirty
by the time this five year windows over. Jooby's gonna
be in his mid thirties at that point. I think
what's the bigger difference for me is that even with
peak Zion and you can fall at the Pelicans, they're
not doing it yet. We just mentioned players with Palo
is more specific to build around. Zion poses those same
challenges like Embiid not only have we seen his peak,
but like we've seen him on a bunch of different
iterations of really good sixers teams, and so if he's healthy,
you don't necessarily have to think as much about the
talent around him as you do with Zion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's scary though, because like I caught myself thinking,
like what if it's just sort of over for Embiid right,
like what the what if the knees are never getting better?
But then it's like, well, what if it's over for Zion.
Speaker 1: We want to say that for a longer Sixers discussion,
but I actually do believe that people are being way
too alarmist here with oh embeied and this. Look, we
just have evidence again that Okay, yes it's weird, it
sucks that he's out again, but like he takes a
while to ramp up. That has been the m O
with him all the time. So it's just the sit Look,
unless you think embiid is just done, which I guess
is not implausible, the Sixers are going to be fine.
It's just I can't we have too much evidence of
this guy's gonna be dominant after a ramp up and
even when he's not healthy enough in the playoffs, like
look what he's still able to do in certain moments.
Now again, five years a long time. He's gonna be
in his mid thirties. But yeah, my overall Sixers thoughts,
I'm actually concerned at how unconcerned I remain about where.
Speaker 2: I'm concerned about your lack of I know, I mean,
I think I think anytime everyone is burying a team,
which is pretty much what's happening. It's probably smart to
like say, all right, that's not as as bad as
it seems, but I would we we can have a
longer six Er discussion at some point. My concern would be, like, one,
you're right, it does. He does ramp up, like we've
seen it how many different years. I would be concerned
that the level that he is capable of ramping up
to is just lower now and like harder to sustain
because you know, it's it's essentially like a degenerative condition,
like he's had so many Look think at his career
started with injury. He's fought them throughout. Like I think
at some point, like it's just impossible for him to
reach a level where like your vision of the Sixers
comes together. And I'm not saying that's definitely now, but
like the what he can ramp up to eventually becomes
like not enough, I think because of the health stuff.
Speaker 1: But it has to look if you have to think
that his knee is just done like that he's headed
towards Kawhi Leonard availability moving forward. But otherwise, because even Zion,
how much of his game is still prided on like
like his physics, not the physicality, but like the explosion
of it all right, And so that's more of a
tricky proposition than what we have with Embiid, who not
only we've seen him at some of his inferior versions
and he's still been good, like during last year's playoffs,
like he made a difference even though he wasn't always
at his best and playing on like one and a
half knees whatever, one and a half legs, whatever it
ended up being. He also just he's not as reliant
on being like super quick and explosive, Like yeah, he
might slow you down to a detriment, but he's also
it's easier to build a supporting cast around him than
it is for That's.
Speaker 2: The best argument I think is like a diminished Embiid
is still like can still do a lot of good
things physically or athletically. Diminished Zion is what like an
undersized forward that can't shoot, Like That's that's rough.
Speaker 1: I do believe I'm going to hijack this stretch to
propose them to you, unless again I did randomize these,
I believe we're headed for a bunch of Zion ones.
So I'm throwing them. I'm throwing them to you. Let's
see how many he can win grant next five years.
Zion Williamson or Alpa and Shangoon also from Casanada.
Speaker 2: I think it's Shangoon. I recognize the defensive concerns that
have been there, the shooting concerns that have been there.
Shanngoon is just like talk about not being reliant on athleticism,
He's just like physically overpowers good Sengun just has so
many more skills. I think like, even if I don't
believe Shangoon can necessarily hit the like the peak Zion
levels that we saw for chunks of a couple of seasons,
he's just like I believe in him as like a
very good offensive hub on a good team. Don't know
if he can be your best player on a championship winner,
but I definitely know I don't believe Zion can be
that anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I look the stuff he's done the past. Well,
I guess like season plus since we're only a quarter
the way through this one defensively, because we've seen peaks
Ion on defense. Probably last year that stretch was the
best I've seen Zion defensively outside of Duke. That's great,
But like now saying Shanggun has done it consistently on
two elite defensive teams, basically I would love I mean,
I say it's about both of them. I would just
love to see both these guys with better spacing, but
Shang Food is more likely to play in those instances.
I think he's the answer here as well. Next up,
next five years. Zion Williamson or christophs Porzingis. That comes
from Nicolcha Kolev Man, do you find this one more interesting? It?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because well it's what we're doing, is like, I mean,
obviously I don't Porzingis comes with plenty of health questions himself,
and he's not and he's not gonna be your number
one or maybe even like number two on a really
good team. I don't know, man, I guess so if
I say Porzingis, I really do feel like we're then
saying like Zion just kind of isn't he Like we're
pretty much done thinking of him as like a difference maker. Okay,
that makes me uncomfortable, right, because Porzingis is super valuable,
Like to call him a role player is wrong because
he's better than that. But like on the Celtics. That
is what he is like. They ask him to do
a handful of things, and he's good at those. I
think I go Porzingis because I know that if he's
on the Lore, he's gonna give me the shooting and
the mismatch hunting post ups and the shop blocking. And
that's gonna be true. If he becomes significantly less athletic
with more injuries and with Zion, I just like, I
don't know. I just don't know what I'm gonna get
this one's this feels like we've gone too far, but
I'm still just the momentum. All Zion momentum is tough
right now.
Speaker 1: I know what. I don't know when the last one
is coming, but I do explicitly remember one of the
commodations that will be if you pick the other player,
that that'll be okay, we're out. I think I'm look Also,
Chris tops isn't isn't young, says the thirty five year
old about the twenty nine year old, so that it's like, okay,
so taking him through age thirty four with his injury history,
but it's it's again the same thing with embiid, where
a reduced version of Christops Porzingis can be more plug
and play, but the Pelks have never built a team. Orzion, Like,
if you put Zion just on the Celtics, I think
he could set screens and like finish and like capitalize
on mismatches. Now he doesn't have the shooting, not the
same rim protector. Christops is definitely more play overall, I'm
gonna go Zion. I'm gonna bet on the youth here
and give me the player that I think can be
the driving force of a really good team rather than
someone who Look, if we're talking about just this season,
it's Christops, like, it's just especially now Zion's not playing
and Christops came back earlier and someone expected the longer
term window. It doesn't give me confidence, But I'm gonna
roll the dice on Zion here, Zion Williamson or Jamal Murray.
That one comes from real Syrup twenty two to nineteen.
Speaker 2: Man. Again, we're dealing with Murray at like such a
low stock point and he's not like there's no evidence
that Murray is a number one on a good team
or even anything close to that or a bad team
or bad like, how do you how do you he's
such a hard player to evaluate because of the jokic
of it all.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll say this for anyone who have if you
put and this is in the conversation we're having, which
team is better LaMelo Ball on this current Charlotte Hornets
team or Jamal Murray on this current Charlotte Hornets team?
Speaker 2: Well, why where did LaMelo Ball come into the come
into the conversation just.
Speaker 1: Saying because people are saying LaMelo Ball isn't a winner
and we see Jamal Murray win. But if you're looking
for someone you're talking about, can he be like a
higher end option on his own team? And to me,
the answer is just no, because if you can put
him on this version of the Hornets, I think they're
way worse.
Speaker 2: You know what, maybe maybe this is where I assume
this isn't the guy you said where if we pick
the other player, it's really hard. I'm not that down
on jam No, I mean I'm leaning Zion because like,
I think we've seen the best of Murray and I
don't know how good I mean he's been. You know what,
was he the second best player on a title winner?
Except like his first best player was general like an
all timer. Maybe maybe if you go Zion, you're just
hoping you get a couple like Apex years somehow. But
I just I'm not confident in that. I hate I'm
gonna do it. I'm gonna take Murray even though, like
I just it's for me. I just I can't trust
the Zion is gonna be healthy and effective or anything
close to what is best. You know, fractions of those
two years.
Speaker 1: Was I'm gonna take Murray as well, actually, even though
I just kind of jumped all over him because you
just need to view it, Okay, can he be your
two or your three and then you flesh out your
team from there, whereas Zion, does it impact you because
you're still clinging to the hope that well he needs
to be our number one guy. And then again the
reliance on the athleticism bit for me, Like, you know,
if Jamal Murray was like thirty one years old, this
might be a different conversation. But what is twenty seven.
Speaker 2: This age twenty seven season right now for Murray?
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go with Jamal Murray as well. It
does bother me that he's been this uneven, like alongside
and Nicole Jokic still like, that's definitely something to consider.
Zion Williamson or Ben Simmons from d nitz, Who are
you thinking for the next five one? And I'm I
guess the lens through which we view this is, are
you you just want out of the Zion Williamson business
because Ben Simmons is an expiring contract and then super
cheat moving forward?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't talked about contracts much with the within
our Zion run here I go Zion. I think like,
I just don't know what role Ben Simmons plays on
a team that's I mean, like the nets have been
like shockingly good. I don't know how much Simmons it has.
If anything to do with that is going to get fired, Yeah,
do Good would do a good job. Get out of here. Uh,
I think I think it's Zion. I just like Simmons.
I think, uh, like, I don't know what he does
for you that you need on a team that's like
really sincerely trying to win.
Speaker 1: I really the passing and defense is still there, but.
Speaker 2: It's even though Dan like the passing is like how
much does being a good passer mean? If you really
just don't ever you have no intention of shooting the
ball right?
Speaker 1: No, I mean, here's the thing is, Zion Benjamins might
be a better passer, but like Zion can pass in
more than transition.
Speaker 2: Right, Zion is this is understating it a threat to
try to score. It's like Simmons is just zero interest.
Speaker 1: That one was the easy one and so ends the
Zion Williams in stretch.
Speaker 2: Can I give you this one my gold gaffer Joel
Embiid or Bronnie James.
Speaker 1: Now, now I'm gonna take this seriously. Okay, I'm assuming
that this is you want out of that. Joel Embiid
isn't gonna be on that one ninety two million dollar extension.
He is older, his knees are cooked, and it's I'd
rather clear up my books. Have the second round pick
cap hold in Bronnie James, who will probably put butts
in seats. And if we really want to view this,
does it increase the chances that now you're we're assuming
that the league guess is a blank slate that you
get the last two years of lebron James's career because
you have Bronnie. I'm still taking Embiid, but like if
you had to build the case like, that's it is.
You don't want to pay Joel Embiid and Bronnie James
will probably be a draw, not just for crowds, but
for potentially his dad, who is still pretty good at basketball.
Speaker 2: I think the question is will Joel Embiid travel to
road G League games? Is that it's like, is he
gonna say no?
Speaker 1: And the Sixers implement that so he doesn't play back
to backs and only plays at home. Oh yeah, there
you go.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's probably Embeid. Uh. My
very first thought too, by the way, was do I
also get lebron if it's browny? Even then?
Speaker 1: How much does punctuality mean to you if it be
late to everything? We haven't heard that about about Bronni.
Speaker 2: That's true. Uh, you know it's a factor. Do we
have any other browny ones that'd be interesting? No?
Speaker 1: That was it. That's why. That's why I included that one.
This is mine for you Grant. Are you okay? Moses
Moody or Lindy Waters? The third this is from sorry
are they good? NBA?
Speaker 2: Did you know Lindy Waters has has played more minutes
per game and started more games than Moses Moody this year.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you want to why I did that. I
know that because Lindy Water is the third is a
superstar hiding and plain sight.
Speaker 2: It's so true Lindy Waters is now. You know what
would be interesting is like, who am I talking about?
I think he's a really well rounded, versatile, kind of
got some two way skin bill, eighth seventh guy on
a good team. You might think I was talking about
Lindy Waters. That's kind that's maybe true. The Warriors sure
seem to think so. Although I bring up the starting
thing because Waters has started a bunch since the Anthony
Mountain went down for the season, and Steve Kerr does
this where it's like he'll take a more like down
rotation guy and put him into a role that's been vacated,
so everybody else kind of stays in the same role.
The problem is Moses Moody's role has always been too small.
It's Moody. The Warriors invested in him. He's a better shooter,
he's a better defender, he's a more versatile.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whoa WHOA hold on fact, he's a better shooter. Yeah,
I don't look at the percentages. I don't care what
First of all, numbers have no bearing. Fuck your facts. Look,
I'm just saying I'm not. I'm not even say I'm
gonna pick Lindy Waters. You look at the way he
can fly around, in the level of difficulty on threes
that he could take. Yes, do you think Moses Moody
is capable? I'm not. I'm saying he's not. I just
you said it so offhandedly that I need I needed
to come.
Speaker 2: In trying to trigger you. It's it's Moody. I mean,
like Waters, though Waters has to have, like what Waters
has to catch on at more than the minimum somewhere
right after after this year. Don't you think, like.
Speaker 1: Coming off of like a nine year deal that was
a minimum or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I hope he does. He deserves it. Moody's already got
his basically mid level extension. I just I think Moody.
I don't know what Moody's ceiling is, but uh, it's
I think it's a little higher than Waters.
Speaker 1: I'm picking Moody too. I just I don't think he's
the better shooter. Like if I just wanted someone to
come and fly around and get up threes, I'm taking
Lindy Waters. That's fair. We got next to mister Hughes.
Speaker 2: Okay ooh this is exciting Herb Jones or the guy
making twice as much as him, Jade McDaniels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably time to have a conversation about Jade
McDaniel's being on one of the NBA's worst contracts, right,
what is it? Look, I was a fan of that extension,
and I know what he's capable of doing defensively, but
you got like Anthony Edwards has had to change his
shot profile because Mike Comley's old. They traded for Julius
Randall and above all the younger guy, and Jaden McDaniels
is incapable of hitting enough threes to get defenses to
respect him. And you can't pay someone all that money
to be just worse than Herb Jones in a vacuum,
Like that's what. Who's the better player right now? Jane
mcdamils might be more durable, provided he's not going to
injure himself by punching something, But I just it's Herb Jones,
right it is? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean like that that thirty nine three point shooting
year for McDaniels really is is pulling a lot of weight.
Speaker 1: Here, given like extra two years of cost control on
Herb Jones, and then I'll figure out how much money
you have to pay him afford to play still be
less than Jane McDaniels is making at that point. I look,
j McDaniels could be really good. We saw him. He
hit threes in the playoffs last year, but like he
is part of the Wolves's offensive problems that day. A
lot of the people are now re litigating a trade
that's only a couple months old, and fairly so. But
the Wolves look a lot different if Jane McDaniels is
actually a three and D player, which he is not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like it really just can come down
to cost, and it's just because like they're similar, you know,
but like one costs less than the other, and it's
close enough to where that just kind of controls the conversation.
Speaker 1: Here's the other thing. New Orleans felt confident enough in
healthy Herb Jones that they decided how zero established centers
and like the Minnesota Timberals just keeps stockpiling bigs. What
does that say about Jane McDaniels.
Speaker 2: Right, he can't play center, Get him out of here.
Speaker 1: Ooh, okay, Jalen Brunton or Tyre's Haliburton grant. This comes
from Austin, who I know. That's why you joined our discord.
I know who you are. Austin is a pacerss fan.
So this feels like bait.
Speaker 2: It is a little bit, and it's it really feels
targeted at me because I've said some outlandish stuff about
Haliburton that might have involved Steve Nash. I think it's
Brunton when.
Speaker 1: We were doing the two K exercise. There's a plug.
Go check out that video. You said exact words verbatim
back when tyrese Haliburton used to be good. That is
a direct quote.
Speaker 2: It's Brunson a contract. Let's talk about the contract. That's one.
I mean he's older than Halliburton, so that maybe you
price in some decline sooner. Brunson is just like I
just don't have any questions about his toughness, his leadership,
his ability to score against any kind of defense, to
his ability to shoulder a load from a scoring and
like just ball control perspective that Haliburton hasn't been asked to.
But I don't know that there's you can count on
one hand the number of guys in the league that
could take on what Brunson has had to take on
and like performed well. So I think it's Brunson. You
could argue Haliburton has the higher ceiling over the next
five years, but I just Brunson seems so safe to
me that I gotta go with him.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Brunton as well, pretty much for
all that you said. And look, the contract has to
be a big factor here. I do I do under
how much recency bias is being kicked in because that
contributes to why Brunton looks like a contractual steal. And
not that I think Haliburton's an albatross, But if Haliburton
just stays the player he was for the first quarter
of last season or whatever, we're probably not even having
this discussion.
Speaker 2: No we're not. I mean we're well, I mean, yeah, no,
we're not, because Haliburton would be viewed as just like
this ascending superstar, be all end all off like.
Speaker 1: Cause, even if Brunson was still coming off the top
five finish and MVP, the age difference would have to matter.
What is he twenty eight, twenty nine, So he's getting
up he's getting up there, my god, But you have
to price that into the next five years of right now,
the answer should be Jellen Brunson. But if Haliburton, if
we weren't so concerned about the health and just the
uneven performance over the past close to a year, I
think that opens the door for this to be a
pretty easy bruntson pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so. All Right, Dan Hayden, Hayden
and sons, Scottie Barnes or alburn Shingoon. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a good one. Fuck, I'm gonna lean
Scotty here. I don't like get I don't know Shane
Goon is. I'm just I'm wondering what does Shane Goon
look like if the Rockets don't have the best assembly
of perimeter defenders in the league, like kind of in front.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like their scalability questions with both right,
or like or plug and play or like how portable
are either of these guys, And and we've only ever
seen each of them play for one team, so it's
not like we've got a lot of different versions. I
guess you could say Barnes, you know, so early in
his career. But he's been on a team with Fred
van Vliet and and siakam and og and like the.
Speaker 1: Shane Goon's been on a team with Fred van Vliet.
Speaker 2: Let's see, maybe that's the answer. Who's been better with
Fred van Vliet. That's that's our control in the sub
You're going, Scotty, huh.
Speaker 1: I'm leaning Scotty. I I feel like I'm underrating what
Shang Gooon can do on offense because the Rockets still
just don't have great spacing around him, and he's just
like he's able. I hate to bring up the Yolkic
comps because I think that they're way off, but like
he can still just it's never gonna be it's not
gonna be as flashy, but like he wants to lower
his shoulder and kind of like back you down from
the three point line and score, like he'll figure out
a way to do it.
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, it's kind of like is the Jokic comp
is wrong? And then the Sabonis comp is also kind
of wrong because because Shang Gun is such a like
a more versatile interior scorer, Like talk about lowering your shoulder,
Sabonis can do that, and Sabonis has got the handoff
game and is really willing passer. I think most of
the very good things you'd say about Sabonis are true.
Shanggun like plus just more craft maybe and.
Speaker 1: Like, sorry, here's what's interesting. Shang Gun is gonna be
on a below MAX deal rightward versus Scotty is gonna
be on the MAX. I'm wondering if I should just
cop out and say that that's going to shift it
for me. I just I'm going with I'm gonna bet.
I think Scotty has it could be a comparable ceiling
on offense because I trust that he'll be more of
a spot up jumper threat than Shangun from beyond the
art moving forward, And then I do if you put
him in certain spacing environments, I think the playmaking is there,
Shang Gun will be the better offensive player. But I
think that Scotty in a vacuum is gonna wind up
offsetting a lot more of that on the defensive end
over the next five years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's right.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't love either of them as as like my
best player. I think I think that's but but.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is but it gets down to specifics.
Is I might feel better about Shane gun is my
best player because of what that can do for my offense,
But I trust Scotty in more situations.
Speaker 2: I think that, Yeah, I guess I'll ah man, I'm
gonna go Shangun. I think I think it's super close.
I I like, I'm comfortable with him as a hub.
I'm comfortable with him as an offensive hub you can
surround with shooting in defense. Barnes, I think, to me
feels like just a more The defense is such a
factor and the like length and the versatility. But I
think I can understand. I understand what a very good
team built around Shangun looks like because we're looking at
it and and with a ton of upside if a
bunch more of those rockets guys could shoot it. Whereas
with Barnes, I don't really know what it looks like
with him as a hub, and that makes me uncomfortable,
and then the cost maybe breaks the tie.
Speaker 1: Next up grant for the next five years, would you
prefer to have Dearn Fox or Tyrese MAXI? This one
comes from oz ten.
Speaker 2: So, so the next five years are probably going to
include a really big non fun Max for Fox. So
I think you have to factor that, Yeah, Maxy, these
younger Maxi is not as good of a defender. Maxi
is a better shooter a man.
Speaker 1: Fox is a better playmaker right like he ways.
Speaker 2: For sure, I think I go I think I go Fox.
It's very close for the reasons I mentioned. But and
I've already said a lot of good things about Fox
on the what do we compare with little Mellow? Maybe, Yeah,
it's that Maxi's youth and potential upside because Fox kind
of is what he is right at this point, like
he's in his mid twenties, late twenties now was he
twenty seven? I think? But I think that level is
one that maybe Maxie reaches, maybe he doesn't. From like
an all around contributor perspective, Fox is just Fox is safe,
I think, And it's not like Maxie's cheap at the moment.
So I'll go Fox.
Speaker 1: I'll go Fox as well. I just have dearon Fox
is really good. And there's I think the fact that
remember when they first traded for Sabonis, and I think
we were easier, or at least I was relative to
consensus where most people hated it. Osmore open to the idea,
but I still just him and some bonus. They're more
of an intuitive fit than I thought, Like this is
how good Dearon Fox is. And I don't know if
the Kings have assembled the ideal team around him, if
that makes any sense, so's I wouldn't say it's easy.
Just you mentioned the contract stuff. And I also think
Tyre's Maxi's really good and just as a kind of
more of the plug and play shooter where it's what
you get the value out of MAXI is. You can't
shift the Aarron Fox into a role that's gonna be
lower total usage, like he's gonna want to have the
ball in his hands for stretches. But I do think
that the Aarron Fox has moved off the bell well
enough during this bonus years that he's still gonna be
the pick for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree. All Right, here we go.
Oh boy, First of all, I did via some guy,
I mean Grant Hughes Dan you gotta choose between Jokic
and Wemby is an interesting.
Speaker 1: Discussion to have just because Jokic is gonna turn thirty,
Wemby's so young, and it's just what does age thirty three,
thirty four Nicole Jokic look like versus the trajectory that
Wemby's on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking about the out years because right now
Jokic is better.
Speaker 1: I answer is still gonna be Jokic, right, I think so?
Speaker 2: I think so? I mean next year is next year
gets what we might who knows this would be fascinating
to revisit in a year. I think it's more likely
than not that Jokic at least this year, next year,
maybe even the third year, Like, because what does decline
look like for Jokic?
Speaker 1: You know, thirty one is not Who do you watch
that precipitously just drops off at the age of thirty
one if they're not dealing with health issues?
Speaker 2: Right, like I it. So, here's the thing. If you
if you think Wemby, is this, you know, beyond generational,
Like he he's the guy we'll talk about in fifty
years as like remember how he showed up and everything
was different. Like if you think that and you think
that's happening before he's twenty five, then then I guess
you pick Wemby. But you just like this is this
is kind of like Jokic or the field because you
know what I mean, And I think you just take Jokic.
I don't think anyone in the league is going to
be better than Jokic this year, next year, or the
year after, And so you're you're banking on those last
couple of years in the five year window of wemby
catching or surpassing him, which means winning MVPs, which is
not beyond the realm of possibility. I just don't I
just I guess I don't see it, Like, why are
we working this hard to justify the best player of
the left well, because it is.
Speaker 1: Taking him through Because look, Victor Wimiyama might just win
Defensive Player of the Year in year two and he
is what did you call him? A seven foot five
in shooting guard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's take. At the moment, I'm going with Jokic.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be more of an interesting discussion to have
the Jokic about Jokic in the sense of this is
probably one of the ten greatest basketball players of all time,
and I don't think people are prepared to admit it
just yet. And I think what may stop him is
that there's still the element and I whan I'm very clear.
I think winning is super important, but like when it
gets boiled down to rings, the Nuggets have not consistently
put him in the best position. There has been the
year that I picked them because I'm a genius, and
then last year is when they put themselves in a
position to where they you could argue should have been
one of the two or three most likely title winners
these other team. And part of that is being the
best player. But what if and when the Nuggets don't
win a bunch of rings with Jokic, it's one hundred
percent going to beyond the Nuggets. It's not right beyond him.
Speaker 2: He's never played with an All Star, Like, what are
we doing like that? That's insane. We don't need to
relitigate the whole yok.
Speaker 1: He ever played with a guard as good as Chris Paul? Right, Uh,
the answer is Jokic. But I do think I had
to think I included it. Well, you included it. Thank you,
mister Grant Hughes for this submission. Included. I just thought
it was interesting because Jokic is so much older than him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's if it's a ten year window, then
it's a different conversation because he's great when he's forty.
But who knows, right.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the risk with Jokic. Are we sure that
he just won't absconde back to Serbia and you know,
decide to raise horses rather than play basketball. I don't
think he dislikes basketball. I think people want players to
emote that the way that people feel comfortable with. But
if it was a ten year window, like Nicoleiokich is
gonna be the guy that retires like yeah, like like yeah, thirty.
Speaker 2: We ever hear from him again?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Woo okay, this one a Wenby one. That's probably
a little bit tougher, I would think, or no, not
Anthey Edwards or Victor Wembinyama. Is it tougher next five years?
This sorry from Hayden and Sons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tougher. I think it's definitely tougher. I don't
know what to do here. I guess I get five years.
So it's not like how old is Edwards was like
twenty two, twenty three?
Speaker 1: I think he's twenty three, right, he's like fourteen.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: That's the thing.
Speaker 2: Well, it's just like you're definitely getting Edwards over the
next five this is age twenty three season. You're getting
like smacking them, You're getting his absolute prime years. I
don't know that that's true about Maybe that is true
about Wembin Yama. We don't know what that's like doom
and gloom like injury potential like.
Speaker 1: And by the way, which he has not had yet
for everyone that's had all this concern man.
Speaker 2: So here's what we know about Edwards. I think, well,
we don't know that he He seems like he can
be the number one option on a good offense. Haven't
necessarily seen it with the Wolves, but that's not his fault.
We've seen him adapt his game, like all the three
point volume is insane this year and he's doing it
at forty three percent, like taking tough ones five years.
Here's what we know about Wemby. He's maybe the best
defensive player on the planet today right now and can
stretch the floor at decent efficiency at a side. Do
we have to take Wemby just because of are we
building in that tr like the growth does he how
much better does he have to get right now? I
think Edwards is a better player, but it's very close,
and there's probably a lot of metrics that would say
that's dead wrong because of Wemby's defensive contributions I have.
I don't know. We got to talk this out, do
Are you leaning one way or the other?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I can't decide.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm not going to decide. Understand. So here's what's interesting.
So I think what you could say about Edwards, or
what I think people would gravitate towards is one of
the Wolfe's biggest issues right now is they need a
like a floor organizer, and that'll be used against Edwards.
But like Wemby can't do that either. So if you
want him in more of a play finisher role, that
should maybe then be something that's knocked against him. And
I actually think that Edwards, if you need someone to
drive an offense from scratch for himself and everybody else,
he is going to be the better option. But I
like the idea of just having this player who has
the Everyone gets annoyed with his shot selection, but I
like that there's this seven foot nine inch player who
could just pull up off the dribble from three with
nineteen seconds left in the shot clock and you're not
sure that he's gonna miss. Couple that with Oh well,
if we give him spacing or just as a play finisher,
like he is going to annihilate people and you might
just be the best defensive player on the planet. I think,
I mean Webbin Yama here, but it's tough because of
the age of Edwards and he's really fucking good. And
look look his own defensive contributions at his specific position.
Those are super valuable, I would argue, especially come playoff time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where you need him to shut that guy down
and also be your leading score here. Okay, as we're
talking it out, it's it's like we're worried about Edwards,
like Edwards is going to get better, Like aren't we
dead certain that wem Begyama's going to get better? And
if it's like is it close today? I think you
could say it's pretty close today Right now, I think
I think I have to go Wemby because it feels
like the growth potential is just higher than it is
for Edwards and Edwards is that if it's close, I
think that breaks the tie. But like Edwards is and
it's like some there's some mystery box, but you know,
appeal with Wemby because it's like, what if he's not
actually a shooting guard. What if he gets a little
stronger and he also just you know, leads the league
in post up points per play or something at some point,
I I don't know. I guess I go Wemby, but like,
I can't do that without acknowledging I think Edwards is
just going to be one of the five or ten
best players in the league for much more than the
next five years.
Speaker 1: Does it change if we to break this down into
if it was two separate categories where you already have
a star on your team, would you dead prefer to
have Edwards or Victor Wembenyama on your team a star
not at their position?
Speaker 2: Uh, if it's like an offensive star, like a first option,
like a big, like a two way wing type of
thing like a Tatum or something right, or.
Speaker 1: Even let's go with both, like could there be like
a guard, like a floor general type two to where
it's okay, Darius Garland is on your team. Or because
we're saying that both of these guys need someone who's
gonna be more of a primary playmaker. Yeah, I don't
know why Darius Garland. Maybe because we talked about Ran.
The episode was the first one that came to mind.
Speaker 2: But well, I would say if in that hypothetical, I
think wem ben Yama is the pick because you're just
gonna have one of the best defenses in the league,
provided you have like adequate talent around him, whereas.
Speaker 1: Well it was Tatum, would that open the door to
shift to Edwards at all?
Speaker 2: Uh? No, I was gonna pick wem ben Yama if
if you granted me the Tatum hypothetical, I think.
Speaker 1: I'll gratuate that now. Then the second would be you're
starting a team from scratching. You're just trying to pick
who you're building around for the next five like they
are going to be your best player.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh well, that is what this exercise kind of is.
I think. So if you take Edwards, you're just like, well,
we have our number one option and he's gonna guard
and feels like a good leader and all this other stuff.
So you're here's the thing. You're in great shape either way, right,
it's looking pretty good if these are your two choices.
I think I'm just gonna go I'm gonna blanket this
and just go Wemby and try not to overthink it.
Like I'm I feel like it would be inconsistent to
walk back all the like ridiculous things we've said about
him and not choose him. I agree with you, oh
Dan from via Yoho, Bam out of Bio or Lauri Markinen,
this one's tough.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go with Bam out of Bio
because I do believe that he is one of the
one well Weben Yama exists, So he's he's no worse
than like one of the three most valuable playoff defenders
in the NBA, And so I think it's him. And
I think you could argue do you trust that he
can anchor an offense? And the answer should just be no.
It's as like the best player. No, you're not gonna
have a good offensive Bam at a Bayo. But like
Larry Marketing is not going to generate like he's not
your traditional hub. Now he's used in such a unique
way that's just hyper efficient. He's big, he can put
the ball on the deck a little bit. I don't
like the gap between the two on offense, insofar as
it exists to a great degree, it's not large enough
for me to take Lowry.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think Bam is a better defensive
player than market In is an offensive player. And I
think Bam is a better offensive player than market In
is a defensive player. And you know what I mean,
like that his strength is stronger than market and strength
his weakness is less weak than market In's weakness. And
the playoff thing is like we've just you know, Bam
has been the defensive anchor on teams in the finals.
Like that's if market In becomes the offensive anchor on
a team that makes the finals is a different conversation.
But it's Bam for now.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, via Maddy l Grant, Caid Cunningham or Shaden
Sharp for the next five years.
Speaker 2: It's kid uh Sharp, Like I know, I've leaned towards
the guy that like we don't know yet what if Like,
oh imagine the upside here. Sharp has shot it well
in stretches, but overall he's been like a middling three
point shooter thirty four percent for his career. Nuclear athlete
can score it. And but just like I just don't
think he's going to be as good or certainly as
well rounded as cade Ca. I mean, this is this
is one of the easier ones in a while.
Speaker 1: To me, I think so too just I would boil
it down to kid Cunningham can be a primary table
center and I don't think that's shade and sharp.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, okay, Denny Avdia or if this wul
Via Bjp Denny Avdia or blall Kolabala really playing to
our our our rational We had.
Speaker 1: A couple good like hard if you're a hard one
Knox listener, like that's why you come here. He had
a couple of these good ones. I this might be
recency biased, but like it does kind of prove that
Denny Avia maybe either isn't a scalable or you need
to be more specific with the way you're gonna use
him because he's not faring well on offense important like
he's still passing the ball, they're just not making shots
off those. Still a really good defender, it can be
a good rebounder and push the pace. What are you
comfortable saying though long term the next five years he's
going to be better at than Blah Kola BALI I
think you can say passing. I don't know that you
can say anything.
Speaker 2: Else, right, And if that's like, if passing is what
he's is what Avdya is better at that can still
be true, and then Kolabali like that that skill like
passing is gonna be like his fourth most important skill,
you know. Like, so I think it's cool of Bali,
the athleticism, like the upside, the capacity to just be
better than Avdya at everything as soon as like, I mean,
he's basically better than him at everything at the moment.
But yeah, I think it's cool Bally just the his
ceiling is so much higher.
Speaker 1: This year two, like we're at year one point five.
He's in what at one point twenty five? Can also
take a moment to appreciate the way he looks in
the picture if you're watching on YouTube, Like he looks
like that should be an album cover, right.
Speaker 2: He's just contemplating, like he's looking at the ceiling wondering, like.
Speaker 1: How am I gonna who am I gonna shut down tonight?
On the defense, was wondering you would know that maybe
by watching the Wizards defense that's neither here nor there. Grant, Oh,
this one's for you via Mike hernishon R J. Barrett
or Jordan Poole, Who are you taking for the next
five years?
Speaker 2: If you'd caught me what year. Would it have been
two fresh off the title right now, fresh off the
title pre punch, I think you would. I would have
I would have picked the Pool for sure. That's that's
how you measure That's how you measure time. There's either
there's the before in the after. It's Barrett Barrett. Barrett
is like, I mean, this year, I've been so like
tickled by what at lessly good passer he's become. How
much fun it is to watch him facilitate as like
a powerful, hard driving I don't know, I guess he's
a guard, but you know wing Uh Pool, Pool is
an unserious defender. He's been better. Everyone's saying, oh, he's
been better.
Speaker 1: It's like Pools argument of like, oh he's trying.
Speaker 2: Right, He's right, He's not. He's not actively doing damage
as much on defense. That's like, that's the it's Barrett.
Barrett is just vastly more complete two way player that
seems to be getting better. Uh. And and Pool is
a bucket getter that does cool shit but is ultimately
like in a big role, does not help you win.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm trying to think that there is
a case for Pool, Like he shot the ball well
from three ounbsurd volume, but I think he probably would
you trust him to run like you're off, like, let's
just use a traditional pick and roll in the half court.
I think you could probably make the case that maybe
Pool is better there as a passer, but it's it's
Barrett just by the well roundedness for the last five
years without question.
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, Dan via Adam, Anthony Black or jayde and
Ivy this sucks.
Speaker 1: Like in a good way where I don't want to
have to answer. I don't Oh, I'm gonna hate myself,
aren't I I'm going Anthony Black. I feel like Jay
and Ivey's been far more plug and play, feels like
he's making quicker decisions. But just the defense that you
get from Anthony Black and the fact that he doesn't
need the ball ever necessarily on offense, if you can
trust that he's going to become someone who can drill
set threes, like the answer has to be him, where
Jay and Ivy probably gives you a chance at more
of like that driving offensive force, but even the Pistons
don't turn to him for that in the way that
you would think. And so both of these players are
gonna be viewed as would you call them almost off
guards in the sense then like, yeah, okay, they're gonna
do a bunch of ball handling that runs some of
the offense. I'd probably prefer to bet on Anthony Black
for the next five years.
Speaker 2: This is a fascinating comparison. So Ivy has been significantly
better in ways that make you more confident that he
can fit next to cave like he's making I was
did right up on him a couple of days ago.
He was making like forty seven percent of his catch
and shoot threes, which is like, if that's any if
he's a forty percent catch and shoot three point shooter Ivy,
then it's like, all right, great because now the athleticism plays,
now the secondary creation plays defensively. I think Black is
just always going to be better length and just like
he's wired to defend more so than than Ivy. Is.
The question with Black is just like this goes back
to like can he make shots? Because if he can't,
then it's like, I don't know. The Sean Livingston comparison
always feels kind of interesting to me because the oversize
point guard that just will never shoot threes effectively. Black
made him last year but he didn't take enough, and
he's not making them this year, he's taking more. Just
can can I pick Anthony Black with a deficiency potentially
as glaring as his shooting, whereas but then Ivy can't
guard man? I don't know. I think I probably go Ivy.
I've we've seen more production, We've seen him in like
a bigger role, and the athleticism is like pretty hard
to deny. But I could. I could definitely see Black
being like a bigger piece of a winner because of
all the other stuff that he does. But I'll still
just go Ivy because we've seen more of him one
and and I think the skill games he's made as
a shooter this year are pretty pretty tantalizing for the.
Speaker 1: Next five years. Who would you rather have be a
Branden Brandon Ingram or Zach Levine? I.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the contract situation, and this is real tricky
because we don't know what Ingram is gonna make. We
know what he wants which will put him on the levine.
Speaker 1: Are you gonna run into the same issue with Zach
Levine in two years though? And his contract so.
Speaker 2: You maybe, but that's at least two years in I
think I go Ingram, younger, longer, willing to shoot threes.
Leavin is Levine is just a straight up like he's
a great scorer, like efficient, great shooter, high volume, all
that stuff. Ingram were uncomfortable with his uh, you know,
preference for the long two and the pull up stuff.
I think the youth, I think. I guess you'd say
Ingram is more durable. You probably would. And we know
Levine is making a ton. We think Ingram will make
a ton, but that's not a given. So if we're
not gonna worry about the contract stuff because it's kind
of an unknown, I guess I go Ingram pretty close,
though I know.
Speaker 1: I mean you're saying youth, he's twenty seven versus twenty
nine year old Zack Levine. I'm gonna go Zach Lvine.
My issue with brandon Ingram, you put him on a
team like the Pelicans have run into this issue is
if you have to, I don't want to use the
merger marginalize him, but use him in different ways or
have him be more complimentary. Is he capable of doing it?
And the answer is it's maybe. With Zach Lavine, we
seen him kind of scale up and down and Okay,
the teams are always bad, but when you have him
scaled down, it's not for anyone who's really gonna be
just a lifeline to a really good team. And then
with brandon Ingram, it's, oh, he's better suited for sure
to be more of the featured option. I don't want
brandon Ingram to be my featured option on whatever team
I'm trying to build or already have in place. I'm
going with Zack Lavine here. I think there's the health risk,
and he is, like you said, slightly older, but I
like the idea of knowing he's gonna come in and
if the goal is to put like you're not you're
not putting Zack Lvine on your team for the next
five years with the intention of having him be even
your second best player at this point. And so that's
why I would I would go to him.
Speaker 2: The problem is he's paid like your best player that
you know. I know, I I dumped that. You're kind
of convincing me so that brandon Ingram.
Speaker 1: I guess my point would be like brandon Ingram at
this exact price point for the next five years, so
thirty six million.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you're right. The scalability is the real
is the real quay we haven't I haven't done this yet,
but I think you've swayed me over to Levigne because
even though he's overpaid and the durability, yeah, oh man,
he's played so a few games like I just cannot
play sixty six Steve Gash. You've swayed me. I'm gonna
go Levine. I'm gonna jump on board.
Speaker 1: It's about time there's you're a convert now.
Speaker 2: Oh all right? Uh? This is from Nicole j Cole
of Brandon Pajemski or Jabari Smith Junior.
Speaker 1: Is this I like this for me? But right I'm
gonna go with Jabbari. I know the offense can be
all over the place, but the things he can do
defensively are nasty. And if you have him like he
could play center. I know that he's played. I think
a fewer share of his minutes have come there compared
to last year, but that's only because like Alpernshanggun exists
and they feel compelled like, okay, we're gonna get Steven
Adams minutes. I'm going Jabbari and it's pretty comfortable for me.
I do worry because Jabari likes to not that I
want to use brandon Ingram as an analog, but he
wants to take those difficult two pointers. Like you could
see it in him, You could see him try it,
but like you could just envision him as being a
pick and pop or pick and roll big if he
doesn't like become the ninetieth percentile outcome of what you
what we thought he could be offensively coming into the league.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I go Jabbari as well. And this is like
I mean Pajemski, just the shooting and inability to create
space and and be a threat as a scorer. This
year is like, this is the wrong time to be
doing this. If we did this a year ago would
have been a more like legit conversation.
Speaker 1: Is at the right time because we have more information.
Speaker 2: Or right is he showing us like this is actually
more like what his career is going to be. Like
Smith is just like he has more ways to succeed, right,
Like he can be a great defensive player even if
he sticks around thirty four thirty five percent from three,
and or he could be a stretch center, and or
he could guard a bunch of It's just like there's
the pathways to success are more varied for him.
Speaker 1: Your turn for me?
Speaker 2: All right, Oh go ahead, you read to me.
Speaker 1: Jaron Jackson junior. This is from OZ ten.
Speaker 2: This is fascinating because isn't Jaron Jackson junior kind of
like what we hope Chet holmern settles in as at
some point like the pretty you know, pretty cool, like, oh,
he's going to stretch it, he's going to be a
good defender more off. Yeah, yeah, like the evolved version
of Jaron Jackson where it's like, oh, he's could just
take you off the dribble.
Speaker 1: So we're hoping he could be Jaron Jackson junior. Book
continue to rebound, right.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well that's the difference like rebound and I
probably have a higher volume of blocks. But what that
means for defenses up for debate. I think that probably Okay,
here's the case Chet may win Defensive Player of the Year.
Jared Jackson has and is not at a point in
his career where it's like always fallen way off and
Jackson has evolved offensively in really like exciting ways that
we hope Homegren will and has shown signs of being
able to do. I think if the age gap were bigger,
Like if Jackson were twenty eight, twenty nine, it would
just be CHET. But I think it's probably Jackson for
the next five years. And then let's we we've talked
about it too. The injury stuff for Chet is concerning,
and I guess I guess not that Jackson's picture of
health right, but he's.
Speaker 1: Been more durable than Chet Holmgren, who has missed more
games than he's played it at this point when you
factor in the missed rookie season. I thought I was
gonna go into this because my whole thing with Jackson though,
is is he I mean, he did it last year,
but like he's back under thirty minutes per game this year.
There's still he's gotten it in check, but like this
is still someone who's gonna foul a shit ton. He's
still at four foules per thirty six minutes. I'm gonna
go Chet. You know what, I think, Jaron Jackson Junior
is too complimentary in the grand scheme of things to
wear the higher end outcome for CHET, I will bet
on that, but the durability and then also I'm gonna
trust trust Chet's rebounding more. And I kind of thought
the positional malleability. Might it does probably still work in
Jackson's favor, but I wouldn't hesitate to play Chet alongside
as a heart and Stein if they're ever available together.
And like even I think you can make the case
like Chet can be like any not any role, but
Jared Jackson Junior is in his best defensive role. I
think when he's not the primary big. The fact that
Chet can be in his best role as the primary
big but also work alongside another big, I think that's
easier to work back from, whether you're him as your
best player, second best player, or whatever.
Speaker 2: It makes me uncomfortable that I picked Chet over Mobiley
and now I'm taking Jackson over Chet, But it's just
like this is good.
Speaker 1: This is really good.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Like, I think it's a good outcome
if Chet is as productive on both ends as Jackson
has been. You know, that's kind of where I land.
Speaker 1: The ship's fucked up.
Speaker 2: This is five years, get out of here, LaMelo Ball
or Steph Curry from Pizito lab.
Speaker 1: Could the answer be Steph Curry? Do we want him
at age? What is that? Forty two in five years?
Speaker 2: Yeah? This so he'll turn thirty seven, in what is
it March? I think, so, yeah, forty forty one, you
got it. You're getting his age for counting this year.
You're getting aged thirty six through forty one seasons out
of Steph.
Speaker 1: If you're concerned about why am I thinking so hard
about this? Give me Steph?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's right because you're getting this year
and he'll be fine next year and probably the year after,
and then.
Speaker 1: He scaled after that, and then he's just like, well, like.
Speaker 2: He scales great, right Like if if as he declines,
it's like, well, he's still a five alarm fire, Like
you're never how old does he have to be for
a defense to not be like singularly focused on don't
let him shoot? You know?
Speaker 1: I just those twenty three So we're just saying that.
Speaker 2: Well, who's the better who's going to be the better defender?
Like Steph at forty one is probably a better defender
than right.
Speaker 1: Now, who's going to compete? And that's good. I'm going Steph,
that's just that's so weird. But it's the answer that
was an interesting one though.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, here we go.
Speaker 1: Okay, drant Trey Young or Damian Lillard next five years
via oz Ten.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, this is pretty strictly an age question. Like
I'm not the biggest Tray Young fan, but I think,
no post Portland, how different is Dame from Trey Young
really like in terms of like what he what he
brings and doesn't bring to a team, and so them
being like fairly comparable and at the moment to me
just sort like I think, how many how many really
good years does Dame have left? I mean, we've just
we just talked up Steph like going into his forties,
Soames game doesn't.
Speaker 1: Feel like it should be able offensively will age well,
but he is someone who I mean and now it's well,
I mean he is Giannis and Brooke, but I'm like
saying Steph has Draymond Green and it's all right, but
he's also had, like look at some of the players
that have been around him. So the answer has just
the I think it just comes down to the age
difference here if any I.
Speaker 2: Think so too. I think it's Trey for that reason.
Speaker 1: Next up, Oh, this is yours to give to me?
Speaker 2: Christian Brown from Real Syrup Christian Brown or Josh Giddy
easy is there.
Speaker 1: Like is this like a thing? It is Christian Brown. Right,
Christian Brown might win Most Improved Player this year. I
don't think he will, but he might finish in the
top three. I will say the biggest I've grown. We
grew to appreciate Christian Brown's defense even more last year
because of what we saw for him in the playoffs.
Dave experimented with more ball handling from him, and I
kind of wish those reps for going to Peyton Watson,
who I think is the higher ceiling. But the answer
is Christian Brown for me. I think he's more plug
and play. He's the better defender. I don't even know
what the case would be for Josh Giddy at this point,
Like the Bulls don't even give him consistent minute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just and just divorce it. It's
like the player type, Like what what is the what
is the theory of building a winning team with Josh
Gitty like as a key piece, Like it's just.
Speaker 1: Even Kobe White behind Josh Gitty is about to pick
Christian Brown. You can see it on his face.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Brown, that's easy. Brown Brown is like it's
not like if Giddy were I think a couple of
years ago when it seemed like Giddy might just be
the walking triple double, like, oh, he'll be okay on defense,
Like it's just it's brown, it's pretty easy.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm glad I give this one to you via
Adam Trace Jackson Davis or Eve's Mecy.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm too I'm too biased. I don't think
either of these guys has like it is a high
high end starter going forward. I don't know. I have
to concede of having seen about ten times as much
action from Trace Jackson Davis as Eve mec Jackson Davis
is like an effective, like good enough athletic undersized center
to be in the league for a long time. Mesie,
I guess you'd say just has the more better shot blocker,
maybe more athletic, Like I just go Trace Jackson Davis
decent passer, like I think he's a fair undersized big.
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting is that I think Tray Jackson
Davis probably needs to have a very specific front court
partner alongside him, even if it's not gonna be Draymond.
I feel, I mean tj D. But Eves means he
just the force he plays with the shot blocking stuff.
But he's definitely in terms of scoring. I think he's
the more dynamic offensive prospect. Yeah, but that's close. He's been.
He's turned some heads this year, So i'll go t
J D's. I'll lean him slightly.
Speaker 2: Mitchell Robinson. This would be a BJP. Mitchell Robinson or
Robert Williams the Third.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with. I don't even need a preamble here,
It's Robert Williams the Third because you don't get to
say that, well the health concerns, right, look at what's
Mitchell Robinson doing right now? And I think give me
the more dynamic offensive player, who, if they're both at
full strength, is Robert Williams the Third? Also the more
dynamic defensive player then too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm going to ask you this, would.
Speaker 1: You rather get eighteen minutes per game of Robert Williams
the Third or twenty six minutes per game of Mitchell Robinson?
And I'm gonna take the former.
Speaker 2: I Yeah, that's right. I think we are talking about
someone that, like you're this is a backup, right, this
is a backup center that you hope you're gonna get
fifty games out of, you know, for a few minutes
and we've I think the offensive rebounding from from Robinson
is you know, has was like a real swing skill
for some of the best stretches the Knicks had. But
I think what Williams is just Williams can just do more. Again,
the health question is like, I don't know, these guys
are both gonna barely play, but I'll go Williams.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, grant being Mike kernishon Dorian Finney Smith or
Najie Marshall for the next five years.
Speaker 2: I mean, Marshall's on a heater right now, so that
helps offensively. I think I think it's Marshall and that's
a lot of that's the age, a lot of that
is I this latest stretch of shooting for him has
been really interesting. I think. I mean, they both play
really hard, so that would normally be something you just said, well,
Marshall plays so hard, but Phinney Smith is right there
on ball.
Speaker 1: I mean, Dory Finney Smith is going to be thirty
two in May.
Speaker 2: That's it's kind of like the the the young version
of DFS and the current one.
Speaker 1: And I'll just think I will say I think nase Has,
I think Dorriyan Finney Smith is just the better shoot.
It's funny that they're we're talking about both Mavericks here
basically since that's where Dorrian Phiney Smith came from. I
trust Doriy Finney Smith Moore as a shooter because even
with his recent stretch, Naji Marshall is still under thirty
percent this year, He's only only been above thirty five
percent once. But he's younger. I think he's just as versatile,
if not more so, defensively, and there are more ball
skills there now you don't necessarily want to put it
outside of transition in his hands a ton. Yeah, the
age difference that may just makes up the the gap
for me.
Speaker 2: It's kind of similar archetypes, but yeah, I think it's
Marshall for the for the age reason.
Speaker 1: Oh this is sinister, not not hard for me?
Speaker 2: Does this meteor ok great? De Jontay Murray dan from
nicol J Kolov or Derek White.
Speaker 1: I think it's Derek White, right. De Jontay Murray could
definitely steer the offense on his own more, but like
Derek White does literally everything.
Speaker 2: Else well, and it's like the offense is kind of
close because White is such a plus plus shooter, you know, like.
Speaker 1: It only happened in like what the past.
Speaker 2: Three years, you wouldn't. Yeah, I it's like who's gonna
I don't know, is it?
Speaker 1: I get?
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. What Murray is is an on
ball point guard, right, Like that's sort of that's what
he does, Like I do. I think if White had
that role, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. Like I
think White can do in a different way. I think
White is smart enough in the pick and roll and like,
you know, unselfish enough to be good at that. It's
just that, like he's a superstar in the like different
role that he plays for the Celtics. Like, I just
think White. You said it the best. Well, White's just
better at basically everything.
Speaker 1: And they're close enough in age. Murray's twenty eight, Derek
White is thirty. We know what contracts they're going to
be on basically through this almost this entire window. Yeah,
Derek White? Ooh okay, wow Via yoa oh shit? Harvey
or Cooper Flag?
Speaker 2: I mean so I Easton has been phenomenal this year,
just an elite disruptive defensive player, changes games without scoring
but can score. It's still Cooper Flag because if there
was a draft today, Cooper Flag would be taken ahead
of Tari Easton. Like, I just don't care. You get
the rookie scale control of Easton of a flag which
you have now with Easton, but he's closer to the
end of that. It's just like, I don't know, Like
this is really interesting, but like it's a potential. I
don't know what percentage chance you put on it, but
a potential like super duper star versus as a player
who's a I think it will be a very good starter,
albeit like a niche guy. For a long time.
Speaker 1: I get worried because people just want to compare Cooper
Flag to Andre Carolinko. And if I'm thinking top to
top three pick, I want someone Andre Carolnko was great.
I want someone better than him substantially in those slots.
But like just the idea of having more ball skills
than Tarry Eastan, you're gonna be concerned about the shooting
this is. I honestly think it might be closer than
or maybe I'm making it too close. I'll go Cooper
Flag as well.
Speaker 2: If you think he's Kierlinko, then it's it's we can
have a conversation. If you think it's actually Kevin Garnett,
then conversation over. And if he's if he's anywhere between
there closer to the Garnett side, it's it's also over.
I think this one's yours Dan Bennett via Adam Bennedict
Matherin or Colin Sexton.
Speaker 1: Is it wrong that this is easy for me? Colin
Sexton all the way. I think he's not a traditional
floor general, but hey, guess what, bennecmathern isn't either, And
I think the problems you run into Benanc Mathern are
kind of the same as ever do. I think he's
more scalable offensively than we thought. Sure, but like this
isn't someone who can defend or rebound at a high
clip relative to what his position is gonna be. Where
Colin Sexton that you can consider him a one you're
gonna want maybe some more playmaking around him. I think
he's easier to fit.
Speaker 2: First.
Speaker 1: I don't want any of these guys being my best player,
but I think he's easier to fit on a good
team than Bennic Mathern. Well, like just con sexted and
his playmaking on drives is good enough is better than Mathens. Now,
I would say defensively, Matherns probably better, but the bar
is not high up. And look, if Mathern rebounded a
little bit more, maybe I feel better. But it's Sexton.
For me.
Speaker 2: Section's a better player right now, can do more of
the he's neither is obviously he Matherin's definitely not a
point guard, but Sexton sort of also isn't either. Section
is a very bad defender, which is the big Here's
the thing, you know, we're we're kind of I feel
like I've been lower on Mathern has been high on it,
but I feel like I've been lower. I'm I'm leaning
Matherin because of the youth.
Speaker 1: Well, well I just looked it up. Do you know
how old Collin sext it is?
Speaker 2: Was he like twenty five?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's about to turn twenty six. So it's not
I'll give me Sexton. This is obviously it's comfortable for me.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's harder for me. I think I
go Matherin. It's three years is a dec or? What
is it? No, it's more than three years? How old's
mathering is he twenty two?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, I think the foul drawing for Matherin is really intriguing.
I guess if you think Sexton can be your point
guard in a pinch, which he sort of has been,
I just don't know how good he's been at it.
I think I'm gonna go Matherin.
Speaker 1: It's very close, though, Tied Jerome for the next five
years or Peyton Richard.
Speaker 2: I mean, this Tied Jerome season has been insane, Like
I don't know if he's still leading the league in
three point shooting, but it's probably still over fifty percent,
and he has not missed a floater all year, and
it has been good defensively, and so I just I
think I have And Pritchard has taken a leap too,
like as double digit score making threes.
Speaker 1: He's definitely a better passer.
Speaker 2: I have to trust that. I can't. But I don't
know how much longer I'd need to see Ty Jerome
do this to change my opinion. Uh, I just know
it hasn't been long enough. So I'll go Prichard just
because they're TI. Jerome has probably been better, even though
Pritchard has been the best he's been this season. But
Pritchard's been some version of this for a while, and
Ti Jerome has never been anything close to this, So
I'll go Prichard.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Ti Jerome. I don't feel great
about it because two of the things that I think,
I guess Peyton Pritchard's twenty seven, he's not super young.
He's gonna be twenty seven, and Tigerome is gonna be
twenty eight. I'm going Ti Jerome, I think the biggest
cause for pause for me. I'm gonna go with the
higher ceiling player who doesn't need to dominate, like like
he could be Plugger Play. But Peyton Pritchard has like
three more years left on a super cheap deal. I'm
very curious to see what Ti Jerome gets in free
agency this time.
Speaker 2: Gonna is someone gonna say Ty Jerome is our starter,
like and pay him that way?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Though? Like, if you told me
it's Ti Jerome, he's gonna stay healthy and you're paying
him what fifteen million, I'm probably still picking Ti Jerome.
But if you think someone's gonna come over the top
and just get weird and offer twenty or something, I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Just need to see Ti Jerome play more than fifty games.
In a season at some point and be good, which is.
Speaker 1: The sad story on this one though, Grant, Thanksgiving night.
I put this together for you all. You're welcome putting
it work. I took an edible after I was done,
and for some reason, as soon as it kicked in,
I had this like impulse to double check something about
Dabite's offensive rebounding, so I went and was looking at it.
I think I lean him here. I know Jalen Smith
brings the floor spacing element, but like he's Dbday's proven
to be Diabote. Excuse me, he's been proven to be
a serviceable big. You just look at the the Hornets
are generating like eighteen point two second chance opportunities per
one hundred posessons. When he's on the court, that drops
down to like twelve point one. When he's off the court.
They are rebounding Grant thirty nine percent of their missed
threes with Musa as their five, and then when he's
off the court that falls to twenty five. I like
that out of a big who I think can do
more of the traditional my point being the traditional big
man stuff than than Jalen Smith can. I think Moosa
is the better rim protector as well. But this is
what I was thinking about why I was stoned on
Thanksgiving night, was this is the one that was keeping
me up. Apparently this is so.
Speaker 2: I mean, Smith is has the like, oh, we can
shoot it as a big guy, so that I don't
know if i'd call that a that like that's his
like that's his like defining skill, would you say? Right, Like,
he's a big guy that can space and like get
him up quick with volume and fairly accurate, has been
very accurate in small roles. Diabat is just like hustles
really hard and is awesome at getting offensive rebounds. And
I mean, like he's shooting thirty six percent from the
foul line this year. He's never been over sixty five
percent in the previous two seasons. Tiny samples are like,
what's this dude gonna do other than chase down offensive boards?
And how valuable is that?
Speaker 1: I think? I I still Robinson like fourteen million a year.
Speaker 2: Still I still lean Diabate because, like, I think we've
seen enough evidence to suggest that Jalen Smith's ability to
hit the occasional three like doesn't actually matter. And he's
he's bounced between three teams already and it's not enough
to like make him a super valuable piece from Hayden
Son's Jade and Ivy or Amen Thompson.
Speaker 1: This is easy, Amen Thompson, right.
Speaker 2: No doubt, am.
Speaker 1: I know we have questions about uh shooting for Ahmed Thompson,
but we had questions about Jay and Ivy shooting until
this year. And Amen Thompson just the playmaker in transition.
He's the defensive terror, and I think he's someone who
you could move, like if you need him to play
the one at some point, I think he might be
able to do it, but you need to play the two,
three or four. He we also know that he could
do it.
Speaker 2: I would say, Uh, this is maybe not the best
time to say it, because Ivy won a game the
other day and was really good, including the buzzer beater.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what, you didn't bring that up
for Anthony Black when it was Anthony Black versus Jay
and Ivy.
Speaker 2: I'm a selective buzzer beater cider.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Thompson takes games over and it doesn't often have much
to do with scoring, Like he really does just become
the most influential player on the court. Because of his
athleticism in defense and anything else after that is gravy.
And I do think he is maybe one of the
most exciting test cases for like can you teach someone
to shoot? Because if he can shoot, it, like we're done.
He's just he's one of the best two way players
in the league.
Speaker 1: If he can't, you're still taking him though, Yeah, next up, Oh,
this is gonna be a nice little choice. Wow, this
is like pitting us against each other, Duce McBride or
Brandon Pajemski. This one comes from Mike hurnishing Again, I.
Speaker 2: Need to look up what Deuce is shooting because that
kind of and he's probably well, is he the better defender?
Pods is like a different kind of defender because they'll
just stand in there and take rod.
Speaker 1: Let's not do this. He's a better defender.
Speaker 2: He's probably the better defender. But what's his what's his
on what's his plus minus? You know, well, how is
he influencing winning with tangibles? And and make it?
Speaker 1: The answer has to be Pods, right because Duce basically
is going to be a three and D off guard.
Speaker 2: And like undersized at that right, So like, yeah, but
you feel okay, with deuce on on like wing sized guys,
or is he more of a guarding one two guy.
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable with him guarding wing sized guys now.
Speaker 2: I don't feel comfortable with pods guarding like almost anybody
in a stand still situation. Like he's okay and he'll
make the right decision. But I think, yeah, I think
it's Pajemski, but it's not like I mean, I don't
I if Pajemsky can't score, if he can't be someone
if like, if this is what he is offensively, then
I don't know, man Like, it's probably McBride. I guess
this is just a bet on he can't be this
bad offensively forever. Okay, all right, Dan Jalen Johnson who's
taking leap number two uh in a row, or Franz
Wagner who's taking his own leap this year. This is
from Brian Sporik.
Speaker 1: It's Franz Wagner for me. I mean he's averaging thirty
seven points per one hundred posessions when Palo's off the
floor and still connecting on over fifty percent of his
twos during that time. I don't know if he'll ever
drive like a regularly efficient offense on his own as
the number one or the number two. But Jalen Johnson
just I don't even think he has close to the
level of self career, Like there's good passing there, but
like Franz Wagner passes as like the jump starter initiator
of an offense. I think he's by the way, he's
everything like ten asists per one hundred posessions without Palo
on the court to Jalen Johnson's credit. The last time
I checks, who's at nine asis Perne Hunter without Trey,
But it's just different. I'm gonna go with someone who's
the better chance of being the offensive initiator. But I
do think you could make the case that Johnson's more
plug and play offensively. I think Franz Wagner, though currently
has a decided at Like if you're trying to pick
the better defender right now or who you trust to
build your like help build your defense, I'm going with Franz.
Speaker 2: I think I go with Franz too. This would have
been a fascinating conversation to have before the season started
because of when the contract seems so like, oh, I
don't know about that. For Franz I think it's Franz.
I think that his facility as like a basically a
first option like singular creator. It's pretty impressive. And like
the shooting questions that he has, you know, he's thirty
five percent this year, Johnson's are kind of the same,
Like they're both pretty comparable, like career wise from three.
So like, give me Franz a little better at getting
to the foul line the facilitation that like, I think
it's Franz. Do you think is there a case for Johnson?
Is it just like, oh, the athleticism and the upside
seems higher because Franz is like you know, I don't know,
not going to guard centers or like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think could you also just look at the
contract and feel more comfortable at some point getting what
you're getting from Joe and Johnson at twenty five a
year versus Franz. Who is I mean, I don't think
he'll get the Supermax, but I guess he's not outside
the realm of all NBA possibility right now that that
might be the only factor I would I would consider.
Speaker 2: I think it's Fronz. I think that's right. Is this
media I'm gonna read this.
Speaker 1: I know it's the last one.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, this would be a BJP. Uh choose a twin,
Caleb Martin or Cody Martin.
Speaker 1: I was hoping it was a plumb Lee. Are there
any twins that are Plumbleys? And I'm like, are they twins?
Who knows?
Speaker 2: I don't know, so no, they're not twins anyway, the Lopezes.
We've got some twins there, the Morrises.
Speaker 1: I think it's h Cody's such a health risk, but
I think he's the better player. And I will I'll
say this, before there was Caleb Martin, like there was
a reason that he wasn't on the hornets anymore because
he wasn't Cody Martin.
Speaker 2: And I think I didn't hit their quota. They can
only keep one because that was out of it.
Speaker 1: I think, I like, I know, you just can't cast
off health here. Greg. Could you let me know what
the difference in age between the two is.
Speaker 2: It's like a couple of minutes a minute, I don't know.
Usually it's right around there.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go with Cody. I actually think he's
more of the like complete versatile player than Caleb Martin is.
And we just haven't seen it as much because of
the health and he's also been on to pretty bad
Hornets teams. I'm gonna go with Cody Martin here, who
are you taking?
Speaker 2: I'm going Caleb a couple of reasons, better career shooter
and two like have seen him make a real difference
on a winning team. Like that's not to say Cody
couldn't have done exactly the same thing, Like it's just
and maybe it was Cody for all we know for
those Heat teams that were in the finals, like probably
who knows if they switched. I think it's Caleb. Like
it's kind of annoying a lot of so like take
the Lopezes for example. This this happened with the Morrises
where one was bet like Markif was the better Morris
for a minute, and then Marcus overtook him, and then
Markif had a moment and I'm not sure where ultimately
it ended up. Like these two guys seem really similar,
and I would say like Caleb probably is regarded as
the better one because he got was more prominent like
on some good Heat teams. But like I don't what
do you distinguish between the two, Like what's the what's
the difference? You know there, it's harder like you usually
twins that's like one or the other is like discernibly better.
But these guys are like among the closest set of twins.
I can remember the Thompson's like amends ahead of us
are right now, but who knows like they're they're also
kind of similar. I'll go Caleb, just to split it
down the middle.
Speaker 1: This is fun.
Speaker 2: I mean, thanks everybody that threw these out to us,
because left to our own devices, I think we would
have just not thought of like ninety percent of these.
So I think I think that was a that was
a good use of the crowd.
Speaker 1: I have nothing else. Do you have anything else? Are
you ready to take us out here? That's it.
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody, especially those that, uh, well we should say
sorry if we didn't pick yours because there were a
lot of submissions. We just kind of went with uh
some some percentage of them. But thanks for thanks for
the submissions. Thanks to everyone for listening, for watching. Uh
Please remember rate review subscribe wherever you're listening to your podcast.
You see this on YouTube, make sure you're subscribed there.
Thumbs up in the comments comment talk to us like,
you know, I'm sure you diverge from our opinions on
several of these, so let us know, make a good
argument for why we were wrong on one or one
or several. Join our discord. That is where a lot
of these submissions came from. Links for that in the
YouTube and podcast description. As Dan mentioned at the top,
there's also what a twenty percent off. We got a
special merch deal going right now if you would like.
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I think I covered everything. Shouts out Frank Milchin. Apologies,
Jared Allen