1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,320 this episode, we're taking a dive right back into those 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,199 core documents and we're going to take a look at 4 00:00:10,439 --> 00:00:14,679 the notice of filing Affidavid of Leo Larkin in support 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,440 of defendant's third motion to compel. So what this is 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,160 is the defense Brian Colberger's team. This is one of 7 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:26,600 their experts who is putting in an Affidavid of support 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,679 for the defense to get a look at the genealogical 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,719 and DNA evidence that's been collected. So let's get into 10 00:00:34,759 --> 00:00:37,920 this document and let's see what Brian Coolberger and his 11 00:00:38,039 --> 00:00:42,039 team are bringing to the table. Case number c R 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,560 twenty nine DASH twenty two DASH twenty eight oh five 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,200 Notice of filing Affidavid of LEYA. Larkin in support of 14 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,039 defendants third motion to compel The State of Idaho Plaintiff first, 15 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:59,920 Brian C. Coberger. The defendant comes now Brian C. Koberg 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,159 buy and threw his attorney of record and C. Taylor, 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,760 public defender, and hereby files the attached affid David of LEA. 18 00:01:07,879 --> 00:01:11,760 Larkin in support of the Defendant's third motion to compel. 19 00:01:12,439 --> 00:01:16,040 This was dated on August ninth of twenty twenty three, 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,079 and it was signed by Ann Taylor. The next document 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,280 is the Affid David of Leah Larkin Case number c 22 00:01:24,599 --> 00:01:28,079 R twenty nine DASH twenty two DASH twenty eight oh 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,319 five the State of Idaho Plaintiff verse Brian C. Coberger 24 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:38,799 the defendant, State of California, County of Alameda. One. I 25 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,359 am an adult over the age of eighteen, and I 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,120 have personal knowledge of the facts set forth in the 27 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:48,079 Affid David two. I have been engaged as an expert 28 00:01:48,319 --> 00:01:51,920 in the above entitled matter since July twenty seventh, twenty 29 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:57,040 twenty three three. I am a genetic genealogist, having practiced 30 00:01:57,079 --> 00:02:02,599 genetic genealogy since twenty fourteen. My educational background is a 31 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,599 bachelor's degree in biology and a PhD in botany. My 32 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:12,960 curriculum VITA is attached. As a genetic genealogist. I have 33 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,919 a clear understanding of how genetic genealogy works. I have 34 00:02:17,039 --> 00:02:21,919 developed tools that are in widespread use by genealogy practitioners. 35 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Number four. Genetic genealogy is best described as the use 36 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:32,199 of DNA data to evaluate biological relationships. There are three 37 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:38,719 categories of genealogical DNA testing. Why chromosome DNA direct paternal 38 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:44,759 line only, mitochondrial DNA direct maternal line only, and autosomal 39 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:50,319 DNA all branches of a pedigree. A genetic genealogist integrates 40 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,680 information from these DNA tests with genealogical documentation to reveal 41 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:05,400 or corroborate relationships. Genetic genealogy primarily uses autosomal DNA tests 42 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,319 that were originally designed for biomedical research. Since twenty three 43 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,479 and Meters brought their health test to the consumer market 44 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:18,280 in late two thousand and seven, family Tree DNA, Ancestry DNA, 45 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,400 my Heritage, and a handful of smaller companies have launched 46 00:03:22,439 --> 00:03:27,520 their own genetic genealogy products. These companies all provide genealogy 47 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,800 tools to their customers on their websites and also produce 48 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:35,840 a raw DNA data file that the customer can download. 49 00:03:36,439 --> 00:03:40,560 The raw data file contains the genetic profile for that customer. 50 00:03:40,919 --> 00:03:44,439 This genetic profile is not the same as an STR 51 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,599 profile that is commonly uploaded to codis in a forensic 52 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:55,560 DNA analysis number six. Most of the human genome is 53 00:03:55,639 --> 00:03:59,919 identical across all people. Only the DNA positions at very 54 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:06,400 between individuals are useful for genealogy. These variable positions are 55 00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:12,840 called single nucleotide polymorphisms SNP pronounced SNIP. The direct to 56 00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:17,199 consumer genealogy companies use a type of test called a 57 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,839 micro array that samples roughly six hundred thousand of these 58 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,360 DNA SNPs. Unlike the str markers used for matching in CODIS, 59 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,639 SNPs can convey information about medical and physical traits, as 60 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:38,279 well as biological relationships to close and distant cousins number seven. 61 00:04:39,399 --> 00:04:43,560 A micro array SNP profile is sometimes called a kit. 62 00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:48,000 Once the lab test is complete, the genealogy company compares 63 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,639 the new kit to those already in its database, looking 64 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,079 for long stretches of SNPs that are compatible. The company 65 00:04:56,319 --> 00:04:59,600 then presents these matches in a list sorted by the 66 00:04:59,639 --> 00:05:04,879 amount of shared DNA measured in Cena Morgans abbreviated CM 67 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,959 number eight. A standard DNA micro array requires approximately two 68 00:05:11,079 --> 00:05:16,199 hundred enngs of quality DNA. That quality and quantity is 69 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,480 often not available from crime scenes or degraded human remains. Instead, 70 00:05:21,519 --> 00:05:26,720 specialized laboratories can generate an SNP profile through a more 71 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,439 complex process. First, they attempt to sequence the entire genome 72 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,879 using Next generation sequencing NGS technology. This technology works a 73 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,920 bit like skimming while reading a document. On the first pass, 74 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,920 NGS technology will not capture all of the data, and 75 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:51,399 it may make mistakes. NGS involves repeated passes called coverage 76 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:56,480 to get more accurate results. For human genome sequences thirty 77 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:02,319 times to fifty times, the coverage is recommended Number nine. 78 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,040 Once the NNGS file is obtained, it must be manipulated 79 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:11,399 through bioinformatics to make it compatible with the genealogy databases. 80 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,319 The extra data must be stripped out to just the 81 00:06:15,439 --> 00:06:20,959 SNPs that the genealogy companies test, and missing or ambiguous 82 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,800 data must be inferred using statistical methods. The kit is 83 00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:30,560 then uploaded to a genealogy database and evaluated. A poor 84 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:34,199 quality kit might have too few matches, or it might 85 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,199 have phantom matches that are not real measures of relationship. 86 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:44,319 Often bioinformatics step must be repeated. This trial and error 87 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,839 process can take several tries to produce a kit that 88 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:54,519 works well in a genealogy database. Number ten. Only ged Match, 89 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,240 Family Tree DNA and some smaller entities allow crime scene 90 00:06:59,399 --> 00:07:02,560 and human RENS main samples to be uploaded. The terms 91 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,120 of service of Ancestry DNA twenty three in Meters and 92 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:13,199 My Heritage prohibit forensic investigative genetic genealogy in their databases. However, 93 00:07:13,639 --> 00:07:17,800 in the absence of an effective oversight, forensic genetic genealogists 94 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:20,639 are on an honor system to obey the terms of 95 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,920 service and the Department of Justice Interim Policy on forensic 96 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:31,199 genetic genealogy. Number eleven. Each of the genealogy databases compares 97 00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:34,800 the users DNA data to all of the other data 98 00:07:34,839 --> 00:07:38,839 files in their database, then presents a list of DNA 99 00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:43,720 matches who share meaningful amounts of DNA. The match list 100 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,639 includes the match name or elias, how much DNA they 101 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,240 share in Senta morgans, and occasionally a link to a 102 00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:56,519 family tree that the match has voluntarily provided. Number twelve. 103 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,560 The genetic genealogy databases are siloed from one another. If 104 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,920 you test at ancestry DNA and your sibling tests at 105 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,360 twenty three in meter, you will not be matched to 106 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,800 one another because you are not in the same database. 107 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:15,480 Ged match is a third party site that functions as 108 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,600 a genetic genealogy commons. A user can upload their raw 109 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,439 DNA data file from their testing company and find matches 110 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,720 to people who upload to ged match. From different companies 111 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,919 like ged match. Family Tree, DNA and my heritage also 112 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,919 allow uploads of raw data files, and ancestry DNA and 113 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:42,720 twenty three in me do not thirteen. Broadly speaking, the 114 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,320 more DNA two people share, the more closely they are related. 115 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:50,120 The correlation is not perfect, though, any given sent the 116 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,799 Morgan amount can represent more than one possible relationship. The 117 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:01,039 testing companies suggest probable relationships, but experience genetic genealogy typically 118 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:05,440 use the online Shared CM tool shown at right for 119 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,840 a hypothetical match of two hundred cms to see mathematical 120 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:14,879 probabilities of different relationships for a given center Morgan amount. 121 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,080 Note that there are nearly twenty possible relationships listed for 122 00:09:19,159 --> 00:09:22,399 a match of two hundred CM, which is considered a 123 00:09:22,399 --> 00:09:28,720 fairly close match. Number fourteen adoptees have used genetic genealogy 124 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:33,840 DNA tests to identify their biological families for roughly fifteen 125 00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:37,840 years now. The same methods used for people with unknown 126 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:41,679 parentage can be used to identify forensic samples from a 127 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:47,840 crime scene or unidentified human remains. Unlike standard forensic SDR tests, 128 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,480 which are used to identify individuals, genetic genealogy testing identifies 129 00:09:53,799 --> 00:10:00,720 possible relatives number fifteen. First, the genealogist attempts build family 130 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,679 trees from the DNA matches of the person of interest, 131 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,399 starting with the closest matches. Relatively few users at ged 132 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,360 match and family tree DNA post their pedigrees there, so 133 00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:16,399 the genealogists must build trees for them. We attempt to 134 00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:20,200 identify the match using their screen name and email address. 135 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:26,399 Then we search public records, social media, obituaries, news articles, 136 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,919 and genealogy websites to build out their tree through their parents, grandparents, 137 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,320 and so on. Most genetic genealogists build these so called 138 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:42,120 research trees at ancestry dot com number sixteen. The goal 139 00:10:42,159 --> 00:10:44,759 of building trees is to figure out how two or 140 00:10:44,799 --> 00:10:48,559 more matches are related to one another. For example, if 141 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,399 the person of interest matches two people who share a 142 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,120 great grandparent couple, making them second cousins to one another, 143 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,039 the genealogists now knows which branch of their tree is 144 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,919 relevant to the search. The person of interest could be 145 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,840 descended from that couple, or the connection could be one 146 00:11:06,919 --> 00:11:10,720 or more generations further back through either the husband or 147 00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:15,919 the wife in that couple. Number seventeen. Once several of 148 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,120 the DNA matches have been connected to one another, the 149 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,919 genealogists must figure out how the person of interest fits 150 00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:27,200 into the tree of those matches. We use age, sex, 151 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:33,200 geographic location, and other circumstantial evidence alongside the DNA based 152 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,639 relationship predictions. A statistical tool called what are the Odds 153 00:11:38,919 --> 00:11:43,840 can analyze multiple DNA matches together to evaluate where the 154 00:11:43,879 --> 00:11:47,360 person of interest best fits into the tree based on 155 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,919 the amounts of shared DNA number eighteen. What are the 156 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:57,200 Odds is not intended to give a definitive answer. Rather, 157 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,399 it points the genealogists toward the most likely branches in 158 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,960 the tree for further research. The tool is also not 159 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:09,600 appropriate for all circumstances. For example, it is not intended 160 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:14,000 for populations that married within themselves, for double cousins, or 161 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,159 when most of the matches are below forty CM number nineteen. 162 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,720 The genealogist needs to do this for both the maternal 163 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,240 and paternal sides of the person of interest pedigree. Often 164 00:12:28,279 --> 00:12:32,000 this involves building dozens of trees and performing several what 165 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,399 are the odds analysis. We are looking for instances where 166 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,440 a descendant in one DNA family tree married a descendant 167 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,399 in another DNA family tree, because those unions point to 168 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:47,320 where the person of interest might fit in to the 169 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,240 family tree. Often, the best we can do with the 170 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,320 existing DNA matches is to focus on a set of 171 00:12:54,399 --> 00:13:00,399 cousins as candidates. Then more DNA testing is required Number 172 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,200 twenty This process can vary in complexity depending on the 173 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,120 individual starting point. In doing this type of research, the 174 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,240 genetic genealogist will generate numerous documents to ensure an adequate 175 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:17,879 paper trail. This paper trail can include the list of 176 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:23,720 DNA matches, the research tree with genealogical documentation, public record 177 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,720 searches for members of the DNA family, correspondence with DNA matches, 178 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,320 descending diagrams showing how the DNA matches are related to 179 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,600 one another, and what are the odds analysis. The documentation 180 00:13:37,759 --> 00:13:42,759 is necessary and important for the following reasons. DNA matches 181 00:13:42,799 --> 00:13:46,240 sometimes hide their profiles. An error in the tree can 182 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,200 mislead the genealogist and the descendant. Diagrams and what are 183 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:54,840 the odds analysis are usually updated repeatedly during a search. 184 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,000 Number twenty one. As a genetic genealogist, I have learned 185 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,759 about the power and the privacy implications of genetic genealogy. 186 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,159 The tests themselves were designed to reveal biomedical information and 187 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,039 can also reveal family secrets about the tester. In many cases, 188 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:19,279 private information can be inferred about the DNA relatives of 189 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,120 the tester as well. For those reasons, leaders in the 190 00:14:23,159 --> 00:14:29,600 genetic genealogy community develop standards that emphasize consent and privacy. 191 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,720 Number twenty two. I am aware of the Department of 192 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:39,039 Justice interim policy to limit when forensic genetic genealogy can 193 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,240 be used and which databases are accessible to law enforcement. 194 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,559 It is possible for the databases to be utilized in 195 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,120 a way that circumvents these core principles. Notably, I'm aware 196 00:14:52,159 --> 00:14:56,240 of a case in which the chain of custody failed 197 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,399 and the wrong SNP profile was sent to the wrong client. 198 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:06,840 Investigative genetic genealogists uploading SNP profiles to a forbidden database 199 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,639 in violation of that company's terms of service, and the 200 00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:15,240 Department of Justice in our own policy c forensic genetic 201 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:18,679 genealogy being used for a case that did not meet 202 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:24,960 the Department of Justices threshold d Investigative genetic genealogists using 203 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,080 security loopholes to see DNA kids who are opted out 204 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,720 of forensic matching at ged match N family Tree DNA 205 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,799 E A case in which an SNP profile was performed 206 00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:42,720 on an innocent woman, a potential Fourth Amendment violation to 207 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,519 a write to privacy and uploaded to ged match without 208 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:51,720 her knowledge or consent. Number twenty three Having access to 209 00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:55,039 the data and the methods used to identify someone will 210 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,519 provide answers to a compliance with Department of Justice policies. 211 00:15:59,799 --> 00:16:03,240 B how a DNA sample was handled from the time 212 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,720 of collection through its forensic genetic genealogy testing C, the 213 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,159 process of SNP creation, D the use of the SNP 214 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,759 profile E. The use or lack thereof of loopholes and 215 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:23,919 violations of terms of service to the various genetic genealogy databases. Further, 216 00:16:24,039 --> 00:16:28,039 you're affient saith not dated this eighth day of August 217 00:16:28,279 --> 00:16:33,279 twenty twenty three and signed by Leah Larkin. Now after this, 218 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,759 there's a bunch of pages of her schooling and what 219 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,639 she has done as a professional. We're not going to 220 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,519 dive into all of that, but the link, like usual, 221 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:45,039 will be in the description box if you'd like to 222 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,639 go and take a look. All right, folks, that's going 223 00:16:47,679 --> 00:16:49,720 to do it for this one. All of The information 224 00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:52,519 that goes with this episode can be found in the 225 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:53,480 description box.