Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like say subscribe and rade it.
Speaker 2: I'm starck and me greatest, go on Wish.
Speaker 1: Today listening a watching lim always keep its watching. And
Speaker 1: now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay, Good day, Bobo.
Speaker 1: How are you doing?
Speaker 3: Good day, sir, I'm excellent, excellent?
Speaker 1: All right, Well, hey, well we have a guest here.
Speaker 1: I don't want to, I want to. I'd want to
Speaker 1: keep her waiting for too much longer here. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to catch up with you for a minute.
Speaker 3: Who is she?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, oddly enough, I don't know that much
Speaker 1: about her because the lovely and talented Matt Prewitt set
Speaker 1: this up. So we are going to I mean, I
Speaker 1: know a little bit about what we're going to be
Speaker 1: talking about here, but I'm going to toss this to
Speaker 1: Matt Prewitt to do the introduction, and then you and
Speaker 1: I can learn about the witness and her importance and
Speaker 1: she's on the show together. I was good, Matt, you
Speaker 1: want to take it? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we get so many excellent emails from our awesome listeners,
Speaker 2: and we got an email on Christmas that I was
Speaker 2: really intrigued by. So I was reading this very nice
Speaker 2: email from a listener named Liz who was talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, enjoying the podcast and had mentioned sort of
Speaker 2: briefly a bit about a story that kicked off her
Speaker 2: interest in the subject. And so I immediately wrote back
Speaker 2: and was like, Oh, that's pretty interesting. Can you tell
Speaker 2: me more about this story? And she wrote back very detailed,
Speaker 2: sort of a breakdown of what had occurred that started
Speaker 2: her interest to investigating this particular subject, and I just thought, Man,
Speaker 2: this is fascinating on multiple levels. And then we exchanged
Speaker 2: some other emails. I was really impressed with her background,
Speaker 2: and I just thought this would be so great for
Speaker 2: the podcast, because again, I think listeners will hear there's
Speaker 2: a lot of different elements that I think are really
Speaker 2: intriguing that we can go into after we hear the story.
Speaker 2: But you know, I do think with you two guys,
Speaker 2: as in a way, you're sort of like the proxy
Speaker 2: for the audience, and I think some of the best
Speaker 2: episodes we've had have been when you've talked to people
Speaker 2: that are sort of new to you and so you're
Speaker 2: discovering the story or their experience at the same rate
Speaker 2: as the audience does, and so it causes you to
Speaker 2: generate questions that are probably the same kind of questions
Speaker 2: that the audience has when they're hearing it. So I
Speaker 2: set this up. I only gave you guys a little
Speaker 2: bit of information about this, but I think it's going
Speaker 2: to be a great episode, and so we want to
Speaker 2: welcome Liz. Liz, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 4: Hi, thank you, Matt, Hi Cliff, Hi, Bobo, nice to
Speaker 4: talk to you.
Speaker 3: Thanks for being here with us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, thanks for listening, and also thanks for the
Speaker 1: email and being willing to come on the podcast and
Speaker 1: tell us about your story. Bobo and I know very
Speaker 1: very little about it, So would you like to, first
Speaker 1: of all, maybe share a little bit about who you are,
Speaker 1: your background, whatever you're willing to share, and that we
Speaker 1: can get into what started your interest in the subject.
Speaker 4: Sure, well, it started after college. I left college. I
Speaker 4: had an art degree and I wanted to be an
Speaker 4: art teacher, but there were no jobs, and so during
Speaker 4: the summer I was involved in a shooting. I didn't
Speaker 4: shoot anybody, but somebody shot at us, and when we
Speaker 4: went to the police department, they asked if I could
Speaker 4: identify the person and I said, oh, I can draw
Speaker 4: a picture of them for you. And they were like amazed,
Speaker 4: and I said and they said, would you like a
Speaker 4: job And I said, your kid and doing that and
Speaker 4: they said yeah. So they hired me as a criminal
Speaker 4: composite artist. Well, of course you don't do that full time,
Speaker 4: even in a large department. They only call you when
Speaker 4: there's things going on, and so I did that. But
Speaker 4: on the side, I mean, most of the time I
Speaker 4: was doing things like dispatcher, jailer, breath liser, operator, all
Speaker 4: kinds of those other jobs that civilians do in police departments.
Speaker 4: I guess it was about my third year, which would
Speaker 4: have been nineteen seventy eight. Was either late seventy seven
Speaker 4: or early seventy eight, I get a call from a
Speaker 4: friend that's a cop and he said, I have a
Speaker 4: friend that has been doing ride alongs with me that
Speaker 4: is a cop from a northern state and he wants
Speaker 4: to get you to draw somebody for something for you.
Speaker 4: I think, he said, I don't know. He said do
Speaker 4: a drawing. It wasn't clear and I said sure, and
Speaker 4: he said, can we come out on the weekend. I said,
Speaker 4: sure when I'm off, you know. So they came out
Speaker 4: and he brings in this big guy. I mean he
Speaker 4: was I'm short, but i'd say he was six y four,
Speaker 4: probably big guy. And he says, well, I'm going to
Speaker 4: tell you a story, and I want you to draw
Speaker 4: what you know, just what I describe. And I said sure,
Speaker 4: So sat down and he starts telling the story and
Speaker 4: it ends up that he's telling me about a bigfoot,
Speaker 4: that something that happened to him. So the story was
Speaker 4: and I have to tell you, you know, from doing
Speaker 4: drawings with people, I mean, working in law enforcement anyway,
Speaker 4: even though you're not a cop, you deal with a
Speaker 4: lot of people, and you learn when people are telling
Speaker 4: you the truth and how they react when they're excited
Speaker 4: or they're reliving events. So I always kind of pay
Speaker 4: attention to that to see how true what they're.
Speaker 5: Telling you is.
Speaker 4: And so this guy, that was one thing that stuck
Speaker 4: with me with him because here's this big, strong cop
Speaker 4: that was a canine officer and he had moved to
Speaker 4: O'calla after he had been I think let go from
Speaker 4: his police department, but I'm not sure. There was a
Speaker 4: layoff of a lot of people and so he had
Speaker 4: moved to Okaala, where his wife's family was from, and
Speaker 4: they lived out in the country on a dirt road,
Speaker 4: sand road in Okalla National Forest, and he was looking
Speaker 4: for a job and his wife was I think a nurse,
Speaker 4: but I'm not positive. And they had a little baby
Speaker 4: that was just a toddler. And so the husband tells
Speaker 4: me the story of oh, he had two dogs. They
Speaker 4: were however, he's at Malinois shepherds and he let them
Speaker 4: out to do their business at the end of the
Speaker 4: driveway and they, I mean they ran out to the
Speaker 4: end of the driveway to the road and there was
Speaker 4: nobody out there, so he didn't worry about him getting
Speaker 4: hit or anything. And he said they didn't come back
Speaker 4: in right away, and so he heard them and they
Speaker 4: were out there.
Speaker 5: It was like they were playing.
Speaker 4: And it was, you know, dark thirty. So he went
Speaker 4: out there with his kel light and the kel light
Speaker 4: I don't know if you all know what that is,
Speaker 4: but it's a big metal flashlight, all black, heavy metal,
Speaker 4: and he took it out there and you could really
Speaker 4: see far with it, and he said that at the
Speaker 4: end of the driveway was the dog.
Speaker 5: The two were the two dogs, and they were playing
Speaker 5: with a bigfoot.
Speaker 4: The bigfoot was playing with the dogs, and he had
Speaker 4: I don't remember if he said he had just done
Speaker 4: with him or he went back in and got it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he went back in.
Speaker 4: They wouldn't come to him, so he went back in
Speaker 4: and got his service revolver, came back out and called
Speaker 4: for the dogs. They came, and he shot at the
Speaker 4: bigfoot and hid it square, he said, square in the chest,
Speaker 4: and the thing let out a scream that he said,
Speaker 4: he just said, it just went right through you, and
Speaker 4: it screamed, and it went off into the woods. So
Speaker 4: he said that he was afraid. He was trying to
Speaker 4: get a job as a police officer, and so he
Speaker 4: was afraid to call anybody. But I do remember, I'm
Speaker 4: not sure that he said he called the deputy out
Speaker 4: and made a report, but I'm not positive about that,
Speaker 4: so don't quote me. And so his description of it
Speaker 4: really stuck with me because at the time, I mean,
Speaker 4: I knew about the Abominable Snowman, you know, but I
Speaker 4: didn't really pay that much attention to stuff like that.
Speaker 4: And he described the bigfoot as very large. I don't
Speaker 4: remember exactly how large he said, but it was much
Speaker 4: larger than a human. And he said the thing that
Speaker 4: stuck out to me as he said, it had a
Speaker 4: cone shape head, and I had never ever heard of
Speaker 4: that before. And he said also that it had humongous
Speaker 4: shoulders and arms, it hung down below its knees fingertips
Speaker 4: below the knees, and it was massive chest, very built
Speaker 4: up muscular chest and arms and upper arms and lower arms.
Speaker 4: That it was very shaggy, reddish brown color. It had
Speaker 4: red eyes, but I don't know what. He didn't know
Speaker 4: if that was red eyes from the from the light
Speaker 4: or what, but he said the eyes were red.
Speaker 5: And see, I'm kind of nervous telling this.
Speaker 4: I mean, it brings back all the things that happened,
Speaker 4: you know. But anyway, so that's the way he described it.
Speaker 4: And he said he took a cast of it the
Speaker 4: next day.
Speaker 5: So that's the picture. That's the story.
Speaker 4: And the drawing that I did. No. I gave him
Speaker 4: the drawing and I made a copy, but I don't
Speaker 4: have it.
Speaker 5: I can't find it.
Speaker 4: I swear I never got rid of it, because I
Speaker 4: have the other drawings I did of suspects for different things.
Speaker 4: But I don't know what happened to it. But I
Speaker 4: can still see it like you know it was yesterday
Speaker 4: and it was nineteen seventy seven or eight.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages. Hey, Boba, whatever
Speaker 1: happened to your gone squatch hat used to wear and
Speaker 1: finding big Foot? Now?
Speaker 3: I don't have that hat anymore. I gave it to
Speaker 3: Lauren Coleman for his museum, but I might be asking
Speaker 3: for it back because I'm getting a little nervous in summertime,
Speaker 3: getting too much sun on the scalp up there now,
Speaker 3: and I'm getting bit by a mosquitoes. There's not a
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Speaker 2: restrictions and important safety information. One of the things that
Speaker 2: I found compelling about your email is you had sort
Speaker 2: of alluded to his behaviors as he was recounting the stories.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to share any of
Speaker 2: that with krypenbogor the audience.
Speaker 4: Yes, so, like what I said at the beginning about
Speaker 4: you know, really paying attention to what people are telling
Speaker 4: you when you work in law enforcement or work with
Speaker 4: people that might be telling you the truth. I really
Speaker 4: paid attention to that, and he did several things that
Speaker 4: really told me that this was the truth. First of all,
Speaker 4: I mean, the story itself. Why would you come out
Speaker 4: if you're a cop and you want a job and
Speaker 4: just make this up, you know, and tell it to
Speaker 4: somebody and swear I'm to secrecy, you know. So that
Speaker 4: was one part of it. And then the other part
Speaker 4: was that he chain smoked the whole time he was talking,
Speaker 4: and he shook, I mean he was shaking. He would
Speaker 4: pace the floor and then sit down for a second,
Speaker 4: but he wouldn't sit for very long, and then he'd
Speaker 4: get up and he'd keep going, and you could tell
Speaker 4: he was really really reliving it. I mean there was
Speaker 4: even goose pumps at one point that I noticed. That
Speaker 4: really convinced me, and that led me to really start
Speaker 4: paying attention to what I read about it. And then
Speaker 4: years later when I heard that they had, you know,
Speaker 4: crests or whatever you want to call it on their heads,
Speaker 4: I was like what, because that's what he described. He
Speaker 4: also described no neck and like the head fit the
Speaker 4: head sat lower in front of the shoulders, So you know,
Speaker 4: just his behavior has told me that it had to
Speaker 4: have happened. You know that he was reliving it when
Speaker 4: he was telling it to me too.
Speaker 1: Liz, how long did this interview take?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: How long do was he describing this? And how long
Speaker 1: does it take did it take you to make the drawing?
Speaker 4: Probably I'd say an hour at least.
Speaker 1: Okay, so he's fidgeting and pacing and smoking.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, he's describing it, and then afterwards, I after
Speaker 4: I drew it, then you revise so you you know,
Speaker 4: you say, is this what you saw? And he said no,
Speaker 4: you know, there wasn't. I don't remember exactly what he said,
Speaker 4: but I remember him saying something about the head not
Speaker 4: being that hot, like there wasn't a neck, so I
Speaker 4: had to lower the head on the body, and you
Speaker 4: know that the hands.
Speaker 5: Were lower, the arms were lower. So you just revise
Speaker 5: as you go.
Speaker 4: Until they feel comfortable that that's the closest proximity to
Speaker 4: what they've seen.
Speaker 1: Did he still have like issues with it at the
Speaker 1: end or was he completely satisfied? It's like, no, that's
Speaker 1: about as close as we can get.
Speaker 4: No, he was he was very satisfied with it. And
Speaker 4: when I say an hour, I don't know, because this
Speaker 4: is forty years ago.
Speaker 5: You know, it could have been.
Speaker 4: An hour and a half, but it was about as
Speaker 4: long as what usually would happen with other ones. So
Speaker 4: here's the rest of the story, though. Do you have
Speaker 4: any questions about that part?
Speaker 1: Well, I have more questions about what he observed. Of course.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you want to get into that
Speaker 1: now or should we just wait and go through the
Speaker 1: rest of the story. What do you feel be better.
Speaker 5: Lizy, you might want to hear the rest of the story.
Speaker 1: All right, laid honest, because I have an handful of questions.
Speaker 4: He said, I can't pay you or anything for it,
Speaker 4: and I said that's fine.
Speaker 5: You know, it was an interesting story to me.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 5: Here comes a win. And so he took the picture.
Speaker 4: I don't remember how I made a copy, but I did.
Speaker 4: And he came back in about a week or two
Speaker 4: and he brought me. He pulls up and in the
Speaker 4: trunk of his car he has a box and he
Speaker 4: has jewelry in it.
Speaker 5: It's turquoise jewelry.
Speaker 4: And he said, I want you to pick out any
Speaker 4: piece here and he was a jeweler. I didn't know it,
Speaker 4: but he did arts and crafts bears and he said,
Speaker 4: you can pick out and I can't really pay you
Speaker 4: because I'm out of a job, but you can pick
Speaker 4: out any piece of jewelry you want. And so I
Speaker 4: picked out a turquoise ring, and I still have the ring.
Speaker 4: And then he told me the rest of the story.
Speaker 4: So he took the picture home because he didn't tell
Speaker 4: me this at the time when I first did the drawing,
Speaker 4: but he had taught He didn't tell his wife or
Speaker 4: his mother in law about it at all for a
Speaker 4: long time, and then he finally told them, and the
Speaker 4: mother in law said she would babysit the baby when
Speaker 4: they went to work or when he went looking to
Speaker 4: work for work. When they were up in Okalla, and
Speaker 4: they had a deck on the front of the trailer,
Speaker 4: and so across the front of the trailer were windows,
Speaker 4: and so she could see out onto the deck, and
Speaker 4: in the afternoon she would watch her soap opera and
Speaker 4: put the baby out on the deck right outside the
Speaker 4: windows so she could see him in a playpen. So
Speaker 4: one sunny afternoon she was over there, she said, and
Speaker 4: it was nice and pretty and not too hot, and
Speaker 4: she put the baby out there to watch her soap opera,
Speaker 4: and she was sitting on the couch which was right
Speaker 4: up against the window so she could just look over
Speaker 4: her show at the baby, and you know, had the
Speaker 4: windows open so she could hear and everything. And she said,
Speaker 4: she's watching her soap and all of a sudden she
Speaker 4: sees a shadow go across the TV and she so
Speaker 4: she turns around, thinking that one of the family comes home.
Speaker 4: And she said there was a sasquatch leaning into the crib,
Speaker 4: but it wasn't like it was going to take it
Speaker 4: or anything. It just leaned over and when it saw her,
Speaker 4: it ran off. So that's the rest of the story.
Speaker 4: I never met the lady or anything.
Speaker 3: This was before I shot it. I don't know ken
Speaker 3: has he to be playing with the baby If I
Speaker 3: got shop just for playing with a dog.
Speaker 5: That's true, totally. I agree.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that it was playing with the dogs at
Speaker 1: one time, and then now this other story that we
Speaker 1: don't know where the time. If it's in the timeline
Speaker 1: of it playing with a baby, do you have any
Speaker 1: information or did did he relay anything to you to
Speaker 1: give any sort of indication of how it was playing.
Speaker 1: I would like wrestling. Was it like, I mean, poking
Speaker 1: at it? Or is it I mean, what how was
Speaker 1: it interacting with either of these things?
Speaker 4: It said it was wrestling with the dogs, but it
Speaker 4: wasn't like it was trying to hurt them, because the
Speaker 4: dogs were like yipping, they weren't growling or anything. And
Speaker 4: these are trained dogs. And then the baby, she just
Speaker 4: said it leaned over like it was like, and the
Speaker 4: baby was looking up at it smiling. You know, she
Speaker 4: did say that like it it wasn't scared. So but
Speaker 4: I don't know a lot more information about that. I mean,
Speaker 4: it was third hand, you know.
Speaker 1: So sure. Did the initial witness tell you how far
Speaker 1: away the creature was from him when he saw it?
Speaker 4: I don't remember exactly, but I know it was a
Speaker 4: little bit longer driveway. I always kind of thought maybe
Speaker 4: thirty yards forty yards, you know, not that far, not
Speaker 4: like one hundred yardards or anything.
Speaker 1: Okay, And while while you were hearing this story for
Speaker 1: the first time, all the way back in the nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: and he was unloading this probably fairly unbelievable or certainly
Speaker 1: unexpected story upon you, did you believe him right then
Speaker 1: and there, or did it take the whole hour or
Speaker 1: hour and a half or however long it was for
Speaker 1: you to for this to settle in and you think,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this guy's telling me the truth.
Speaker 4: No, I did not believe it right away because I
Speaker 4: kept thinking, what are these two guys trying to pull
Speaker 4: on me? You know, because cops are notorious for joking,
Speaker 4: and so you know, I kept watching that, and that's
Speaker 4: why I really paid attention to the way he was
Speaker 4: acting and what he was saying, and then him saying,
Speaker 4: don't tell.
Speaker 5: Anybody, you know.
Speaker 4: He repeated that several times, and being worried that he
Speaker 4: would not get a people would think it was crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I think that's a reasonable fear for someone
Speaker 1: trying to get a job in law enforcement, because I
Speaker 1: mean law enforcement, you could be you know, you're going
Speaker 1: to go on trial at some point, You're going to
Speaker 1: be a witness in somebody's trial. And imagine some scumbag
Speaker 1: lawyer right saying like, so I understand you believe in sasquatches,
Speaker 1: is just calling your credibility in the question. You know,
Speaker 1: they have to be very very careful about that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff.
Speaker 5: I don't. You know, I don't know, but I know it.
Speaker 4: It really changed my thinking, and it may and especially
Speaker 4: years later when I heard, you know, I heard about
Speaker 4: like the crest, not the crest, but you know what,
Speaker 4: I'm sagital crest.
Speaker 5: I guess it's called.
Speaker 4: And when I heard things like their arms, you know,
Speaker 4: the size, the and I didn't even think about them
Speaker 4: being in Florida.
Speaker 5: I always thought it was just like I said.
Speaker 4: You know, somewhere in Nepal or somewhere in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 4: I never thought, you know, why would they be anywhere
Speaker 4: else if there was one? You know, even years later
Speaker 4: I thought that, so, you know, it was just a surprise.
Speaker 4: I guess, like, what were they doing in Florida? Going
Speaker 4: on vacation?
Speaker 3: Do you remember what time of the year it was?
Speaker 4: No, I don't, But in Florida, you know, there's not seasons.
Speaker 4: There's hot hotter, Yeah, hot and hotter.
Speaker 5: You got it.
Speaker 1: Now, since that time, you've gone on and I mean,
Speaker 1: you have a PhD. For goodness sake, and one of
Speaker 1: your specialties in general is correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: of course, and elaborate a little bit further. If you
Speaker 1: could something to do with a perhaps like oral tradition
Speaker 1: or storytelling, Like there's some facet in your specialty that
Speaker 1: directly has to do with the way people tell stories
Speaker 1: and how people tell stories. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 1: Because you know, one of the things about in Bigfootland
Speaker 1: is everybody and their mother has a story. Everybody has
Speaker 1: a story, and they want to tell you no matter what.
Speaker 1: Like I want to tell you this story that happened
Speaker 1: to me twenty thirty fifty years ago, and I want
Speaker 1: to know first of all, why, why that is true?
Speaker 1: Like does what is this need of human beings? I
Speaker 1: know we have two or three hundred thousand years of
Speaker 1: sitting around a campfire before they invented before we invented writing,
Speaker 1: So I know that has something to do with it,
Speaker 1: like the epigenetic aspect to us about storytelling. But there's
Speaker 1: something else going on here, and since I have a
Speaker 1: specialist here, I want to hear your take on it,
Speaker 1: if you wouldn't mind.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, my degree, my last degree is in literacy studies,
Speaker 4: but that's teaching reading and so. But my PhD studies
Speaker 4: were in looking at the way teachers learn and what
Speaker 4: sticks with them and what are the best types of
Speaker 4: professional developments that you can do with teachers that will
Speaker 4: keep that information stuck with them. And you know, Cliff,
Speaker 4: from being a teacher, you can go to those service
Speaker 4: days and not learn a thing and put the information
Speaker 4: away in a closet and you never see it again,
Speaker 4: and you never try it. So I was very fascinated
Speaker 4: with what sticks with teachers, But what can you do
Speaker 4: to help them retain the knowledge? Try out things, come
Speaker 4: back and talk about it. And it came out to
Speaker 4: that It started with book studies. So I tried professional
Speaker 4: book studies and I realized that what I saw in
Speaker 4: the people that were participating was that they told stories
Speaker 4: to explain their understanding of the books they read, of
Speaker 4: their experiences, and that solidified solidified their understanding of the
Speaker 4: concepts that they were learning. So I started looking more
Speaker 4: into the importance of story in our own lives and
Speaker 4: how we use it to, like I said, solidify or
Speaker 4: understanding explain experiences. And there's a lot of neurological science
Speaker 4: that has to do with that that it has to
Speaker 4: do with dopamine levels and how when you tell a story,
Speaker 4: listening to a story, it increases your dopamine too. And
Speaker 4: stories also because they are based on something experiential and
Speaker 4: they build on themselves to a conclusion. They're easier to
Speaker 4: remember in the brain than if I stood up and
Speaker 4: told you a bunch of facts about something. So that's
Speaker 4: why I think I listened to you, Cliff when you say,
Speaker 4: you know you don't like I don't want to say
Speaker 4: this and get you mad at me, but that you
Speaker 4: don't like hearing another story, you know. And that's really
Speaker 4: why I contacted that, because I thought, well, that's I
Speaker 4: understand that completely, because after a while, what's a new
Speaker 4: story going to do. But it also because of the
Speaker 4: importance of story. It helps people to understand their experience.
Speaker 4: It helps us to find patterns, it helps us to
Speaker 4: solidify our understanding of something, and so I think it's important.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'd never be mad at you for what you think. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be mad at you. Everything's fine. But
Speaker 1: after a few thousand road crossing stories, i'd like you
Speaker 1: to hear I'd like you to tell me that same
Speaker 1: sentence again.
Speaker 5: I can understand that.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bobo will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: One of the things that I found so compelling about
Speaker 2: Liz's email, And the context of this particular case is that,
Speaker 2: you know, if we are talking about something like finding
Speaker 2: Bigfoot or Bigfoot and Beyond, or you know, when I
Speaker 2: investigator reports with the BFRO or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 2: like when you have a sort of big billboard to
Speaker 2: the public that you're soliciting sasquatch stories and then people
Speaker 2: come directly to you with those stories. Of course, anybody
Speaker 2: you know, worth their salt as an investigator has to
Speaker 2: be somewhat skeptical upfront that like, well, you'd have to
Speaker 2: at least expect, like a certain degree of the reports
Speaker 2: I'm going to receive are going to be intended to
Speaker 2: make me believe the claimant, because I am in a
Speaker 2: position to receive such reports. And these reports end up
Speaker 2: in a television series or a podcast, or on a
Speaker 2: website or in a book or whatever, and so I'm
Speaker 2: always more compelled by these sorts of stories that come
Speaker 2: about through these other means. And you know, some of
Speaker 2: the best witnesses I've ever met and the most compelling
Speaker 2: stories came to me through means that were not Sasquatch related.
Speaker 2: And you know, growing up in a time, especially, I
Speaker 2: started investigating reports in the two thousands, like sasquatch was
Speaker 2: pretty popular, and it's already become much more popular. So
Speaker 2: for you to have received this report, you were almost
Speaker 2: thrust into like this involuntary sasquatch research or position, because
Speaker 2: you're having to basically vet or investigate this person's claims
Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies, you know, at a time before
Speaker 2: the huge popularity of the subject, and you're outside of
Speaker 2: the Pacific Northwest. All of that is me lends more
Speaker 2: credibility to claim it, all those contextual things, and I
Speaker 2: think it should serve as an indicator to the outside
Speaker 2: world that there are a lot more of these people
Speaker 2: out there. There are so many people who've had observations
Speaker 2: or experiences that we will never hear about because they
Speaker 2: almost tell no one and they only ever tell a
Speaker 2: hand few of people, if any at all. And so
Speaker 2: your story I think was a perfect example of illustrating
Speaker 2: all those points.
Speaker 4: That was the other reason that I, you know, I text,
Speaker 4: I mean, I've emailed you because there are so I
Speaker 4: think there are so many, and you know it may
Speaker 4: be a lot higher, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. I mean there's reports that I included in
Speaker 2: the book or that I've mentioned in other places that literally,
Speaker 2: you know, I've never talked about the sources of some
Speaker 2: of these reports. But like, for example, I used to
Speaker 2: work as a recruiter, a phone based recruiter, and one
Speaker 2: of the first recruiting job that I ever had was
Speaker 2: hiring people for a very specific kind of role and
Speaker 2: you had to have a certain license for this role.
Speaker 2: And so we had a database of every license holder
Speaker 2: who could have filled this potential role in the country.
Speaker 2: And it was a searchable database, and so literally I
Speaker 2: would search it based on ZIP code of my favorite
Speaker 2: areas to do field research, and so I would get
Speaker 2: these people on the phone and see if they were
Speaker 2: looking for a job and whatever the case would be.
Speaker 2: And then I would always ask kind of like coily.
Speaker 2: I would say like, oh, hey, you know, I've been
Speaker 2: to that area. Have you ever heard any good bigfoot
Speaker 2: stories from around there? And there was one guy in
Speaker 2: particular who was like, hey, man, that's not funny, And
Speaker 2: I said, sir, like, I promise you no one takes
Speaker 2: it more seriously than I do. And he told me
Speaker 2: about this class a siding that he had. Funny enough,
Speaker 2: he asked me he said, well, have you ever heard
Speaker 2: of a little town called Helen, Georgia? And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I grew up there. That's where I do most of
Speaker 2: my field research for a lot of it. And so
Speaker 2: he had a siding there and so, and of course,
Speaker 2: one thing I always ask people is like, well, did
Speaker 2: you ever feel inclined to report this to anyone like
Speaker 2: authorities or local law enforcement or local media. And he said, oh,
Speaker 2: absolutely not. And he said, I've not even told most
Speaker 2: of my family members this story. And so little insights
Speaker 2: like that just show you there are so many of
Speaker 2: those out there in the world that we'll never hear about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the dash can VideA you got down there too.
Speaker 3: If you didn't know the deputy personally, that would neither
Speaker 3: come to life.
Speaker 2: Oh, certainly, that's certainly the case. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: reading Liz's email was like, because she had mentioned, you
Speaker 2: know in her original email, oh, I had done a
Speaker 2: sketch for someone who had seen one in the seventies
Speaker 2: near O'calla National Forest. And I was like, oh, can
Speaker 2: you tell me more about this? And so and then when,
Speaker 2: like I said, when I learned about her background, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is really relevant because I'm in
Speaker 2: the same boat, like I'm fascinated by stories. And you know,
Speaker 2: I referenced in my book one of the sources that
Speaker 2: I referenced here, and there was a great book called
Speaker 2: The Storytelling Animal. I know I've recommended it to our Patreon
Speaker 2: members before, but to our general listenership, I would definitely
Speaker 2: recommend reading that book. You know, we do sort of
Speaker 2: perceive the world through a narrative structure, and so we
Speaker 2: reflect that back through our narratives. And we're such narrative
Speaker 2: biggest creatures that it's like, you know, you hear people
Speaker 2: say like, oh, well, we should just stick to the science. Well,
Speaker 2: what is a hypothesis. It's a story. A hypothesis has
Speaker 2: a narrative structure. It's just a more quote unquote science
Speaker 2: y word for a very convenient sort of story. And
Speaker 2: hopefully it's a story that accurately gives a proposed explanation
Speaker 2: for an observed phenomenon. But let's be really, it's still
Speaker 2: a story. It has to be tested. But you know,
Speaker 2: we live in a realm of stories, and stories are
Speaker 2: definitely very important.
Speaker 1: Well, I have a question for you, Liz. You don't
Speaker 1: know where you're drawing is I would love, of course,
Speaker 1: love to see it. Do you think that I can
Speaker 1: convince you, or maybe even pay you if I need to,
Speaker 1: to drew another one to the best of your recollection
Speaker 1: of what the gentleman described.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing about that. I've bought about that cliff
Speaker 4: a lot. But my problem is that my mind is
Speaker 4: now skewed by all of the experience or the things
Speaker 4: that I've seen, So I don't want to say that
Speaker 4: it would be accurate. You know, I can keep looking
Speaker 4: for it, but I mean, I could draw it, but
Speaker 4: I wonder if it would be the same as what
Speaker 4: I drew. It'd be cool to draw it and then
Speaker 4: come try to find the other one.
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't that be an interesting
Speaker 1: experiment in itself where you drew what you believe you
Speaker 1: remember and then compare it to the actual one when
Speaker 1: it turns up. Because one of the things I've noticed
Speaker 1: over the years is the longer somebody tells a story,
Speaker 1: the more they believe their own story, even if it
Speaker 1: changes a little over time through no fault of their own.
Speaker 1: The details get skewed or introduced or whatever, and then
Speaker 1: they remember the version of the story that they've been
Speaker 1: telling instead of what perhaps it was at the first
Speaker 1: go through.
Speaker 5: I absolutely agree with you.
Speaker 4: That's why I, you know, I hesitate about, like telling
Speaker 4: you about the face because I don't remember that part.
Speaker 4: Other than the eyes and the nose. I don't remember
Speaker 4: the color. I don't remember if it had hair, for sure,
Speaker 4: you know so, And I know it was hairy all over,
Speaker 4: but I don't remember the face part, which is crazy
Speaker 4: because that's usually what I drew, were faces. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I can draw it again, I'll try.
Speaker 1: I think that would be really cool. I mean, and honestly,
Speaker 1: i'd put it up in the museum. I would be
Speaker 1: happy to display that in the museum. Actually too so cool.
Speaker 4: Well, I know it was yellow, I mean like brown,
Speaker 4: light browns and reddish, you know. So that was another thing.
Speaker 4: When I heard about that some of them had reddish hair,
Speaker 4: I thought, well, wow, because he said.
Speaker 5: The same thing.
Speaker 4: But it was like a mixture of hair colors, a
Speaker 4: yellish blondish brownish anyway, it wasn't solid black or anything.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, if you feel like even doing a sketch,
Speaker 1: I would love to see it. Then of course you
Speaker 1: can email to you know, the podcast, or you can
Speaker 1: send it to the museum. I'll see it either way. Okay, sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: no pressure. I'll send you a little something in return
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 5: Oh no, you don't have to do that.
Speaker 1: I don't have to, but i'd like to.
Speaker 5: Oh well, thank you.
Speaker 1: So, as far as storytelling goes, when somebody tells the
Speaker 1: story you said, it releases endorphins, it it reinforces what happened.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of dopamine. I'm sorry, yeah, the dopamine. Sorry,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things going on psychologically in the
Speaker 1: storyteller's mind. So they get something out of it, right,
Speaker 1: It's not just to share, it's also to what is
Speaker 1: to share, but it's also to convince. It's to express something.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure what I'm trying to They
Speaker 1: had to encapsulate what I'm trying to ask there. Well,
Speaker 1: what does a storyteller like? How do what does storytelling
Speaker 1: do for the storyteller? I can see what it does culturally.
Speaker 1: It reinforces cultural ideas, reinforces cultural traditions. There's a lot
Speaker 1: going on there, but for the individual, it's him or herself.
Speaker 1: What's going on there? Like when when somebody wants to share.
Speaker 1: Are are they pleading with you to understand? Are they
Speaker 1: pleading with you to experience what they did? What I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess the answer is that it depends on the person.
Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4: From what I saw with the people that I studied,
Speaker 4: they were doing several things. One was that they're telling
Speaker 4: the story for themselves so that they could say out
Speaker 4: loud what they were thinking in relation to what they
Speaker 4: were learning. So they were trying to find an example
Speaker 4: of what they were learning in their experiences with students,
Speaker 4: or if they didn't have one, they would That's where
Speaker 4: the conversation would come in where other people would say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: I've seen that before, or I had this trouble and
Speaker 4: this might help it. You know, this technique might help that.
Speaker 4: And so they're trying trying the problems I've solved orally,
Speaker 4: and that gives them another way of getting their brain
Speaker 4: to work instead of just keeping it in. You know,
Speaker 4: you need all those different modalities to help you understand things.
Speaker 4: And so the other thing is I think they're trying
Speaker 4: to elicit understanding and maybe getting support back from the
Speaker 4: you know, the other people that are listening. Support in
Speaker 4: the fact that you know, when you nod, like in conversation,
Speaker 4: you nod to somebody, that's a reinforcement of what they're saying,
Speaker 4: so they keep going. It's the same thing in storytelling.
Speaker 4: They're looking for those nonverbal cues to help them go
Speaker 4: on with the story.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, you know that's actually something I had to learn.
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought for myself. At least, I did
Speaker 1: give a lot of like nonverbal cues that I was there.
Speaker 1: I was just listening because I didn't want to interrupt,
Speaker 1: so I didn't even nod or anything. I just kind
Speaker 1: of stared. And I learned after a long time and
Speaker 1: a lot of harsh lessons that kind of freaked people out.
Speaker 1: But I'm socially awkward in many many ways, that's not
Speaker 1: just the only one. Yeah, it's kind of funny that
Speaker 1: you mentioned that. So people it sounds like people are
Speaker 1: looking for looking for understanding, looking to the feel that
Speaker 1: that perhaps they're not alone. I imagine some people are
Speaker 1: looking to impress, at least that's that's the impression I
Speaker 1: get from it, honestly, sometimes, and they're they're looking for
Speaker 1: maybe some validation that they're they're not alone in their experience.
Speaker 1: Perhaps and that's not not not isolating Bigfoot as a
Speaker 1: subject either, it's just whatever they're sharing with you. You know,
Speaker 1: I drove real fast one night, or you know this
Speaker 1: this this milk costs too much or something like that.
Speaker 1: They're they're looking for a feeling of not being alone.
Speaker 1: It's like some sort of group adherent like adhesion or
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you brought up feelings, because that's an
Speaker 4: important part of it. The when you tell stories, the
Speaker 4: person that's listening may not have had that exact experience,
Speaker 4: but they may have. They've felt fear before, they felt
Speaker 4: pride before, they've felt all those emotions that we share
Speaker 4: as human beings. May be different in different experiences, so
Speaker 4: that also is a way to build community. You know that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I've been scared before or was it that It may
Speaker 4: have been, you know, something else that caused it, but
Speaker 4: we have that same emotion, so then we can put
Speaker 4: ourselves with that person in that same experience that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you also mentioned the modality, which is a teacher.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that word until I was a teacher.
Speaker 1: And I've heard that word, of course before, but I
Speaker 1: didn't understand the context of it. Until I was a teacher,
Speaker 1: and it's basically the idea that people learn in different ways.
Speaker 1: You know, Like I'm a very visual learner with a
Speaker 1: secondary of an audio learner, so I mean I learn
Speaker 1: I might even skew towards audio learner more actually, because
Speaker 1: I'm a musician after all. But you know, visual learners
Speaker 1: very often have things color coded and organized and all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, and that's definitely not me. And
Speaker 1: there's also kinesthetic learners who have to kind of do
Speaker 1: things to understand, and mind you, everybody is one of
Speaker 1: the everybody's all of these things, but they tend to
Speaker 1: be more dominant in one. And there's other modalities as well,
Speaker 1: you know, as the theory has been like kind of
Speaker 1: strung out a little bit more and plumbed a bit
Speaker 1: more in depth. But the kinesthetics have a reputation of
Speaker 1: being the pain and the butts in the classroom because
Speaker 1: they're the ones that have to stand up and do
Speaker 1: things all the time, and they're the ones that don't
Speaker 1: necessarily sit down well at their desks like teachers very
Speaker 1: often want them to do. So I would very often
Speaker 1: let them stand up at their desk and do what
Speaker 1: they need to do it's in order to learn it.
Speaker 1: But the audio learners, they're the ones that used to
Speaker 1: drive me nuts because probably because I am one to
Speaker 1: a large degree. But also what I find is that
Speaker 1: for them to process things, you know, audio learners have
Speaker 1: to hear something to really understand it in a way,
Speaker 1: but for them to process it, they tend to talk
Speaker 1: about it that way. They can hear themselves and process
Speaker 1: it that way. They're processing the information and integrat to
Speaker 1: get into themselves somehow by listening to that information. But
Speaker 1: sometimes they have very often they have to say those
Speaker 1: things out loud. So they're the ones that just won't
Speaker 1: shut up. And I am that sometimes. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: rather long winded and I keep going on about things
Speaker 1: and I probably should have stopped talking about a long
Speaker 1: time ago, like what I'm saying now, for example. But
Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying. So the storytelling aspect is
Speaker 1: probably what I'm hearing is has something to do with
Speaker 1: that as well. It's a processing through talking and therefore
Speaker 1: through listening, so you kind of the storyteller gets it both.
Speaker 1: They get at both ends there. It's like they're saying
Speaker 1: it and they're also listening and processing the information at
Speaker 1: the same time.
Speaker 4: Yes, and the auditory learners, really good storytellers can build
Speaker 4: a picture of what they saw in detail, so you
Speaker 4: get you if you're a visual learner and not an
Speaker 4: auditory processor, you can and visualize that thing that they're
Speaker 4: describing by the detail they give you. So the more
Speaker 4: detail they give you, the better.
Speaker 5: It is.
Speaker 4: Just like, it was kind of funny when you were
Speaker 4: asking me more information about what did it look like?
Speaker 4: I was thinking, Oh, Cliff's a visual because he's asking
Speaker 4: me more in depth you know, about it, and I'm
Speaker 4: an auditory processor. It drives two of my sisters crazy,
Speaker 4: and the other two are both like me or the
Speaker 4: other ones like me.
Speaker 5: So we drive them crazy. It's kind of funny when
Speaker 5: we're all together, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all have a little bit of it all
Speaker 1: in us though at the same time. So it's just
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what modality is dominant. Stay tuned for more
Speaker 1: Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right
Speaker 1: back after these messages.
Speaker 2: One of the skeptical arguments that's always sort of irked
Speaker 2: me was that, oh, well, if an event like you know,
Speaker 2: so and so sasquatch siding really happened, they couldn't possibly
Speaker 2: have remembered this or that. And you know, in writing
Speaker 2: the book, I mean, over the years, I've really been
Speaker 2: interested in the sort of not only like the physiological
Speaker 2: neurological responses that people have distressful events, but also psychological responses,
Speaker 2: but especially in terms of memory. And you know, I'd
Speaker 2: found quite a bit of literature on that, which I
Speaker 2: condensed just to make a few relevant points in the book.
Speaker 2: But you know, i'd mentioned I'll just read it from
Speaker 2: the book because that's easier than trying to paraphrase it quickly.
Speaker 2: But in chapter six I had mentioned that quote. Studies
Speaker 2: indicate that two categories of events are more accurately recalled
Speaker 2: than mundane ones, negative experiences and novelty. Negative experiences are
Speaker 2: remembered in higher resolution or vividness than positive ones given
Speaker 2: the relationship between negative emotion and sensory processing. Since negative
Speaker 2: or frightening experiences engage more of the sensory processes necessary
Speaker 2: for survival, these events and the elements within them are
Speaker 2: retrieved and recalled in greater detail than positive ones. Moreover,
Speaker 2: neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the process is utilized during the
Speaker 2: retrieval and recall are the same processes using during the
Speaker 2: encoding of a negative event. This results in a stress
Speaker 2: response during memory recall. And so I've always been motivated
Speaker 2: by that too when I see peoples as you described,
Speaker 2: like the way that they're behaving as they're reliving the
Speaker 2: event or offering the claim, let's say. And of course
Speaker 2: there are great actors and people went oscars and things
Speaker 2: of that nature, but most people are not talented actors,
Speaker 2: and some of those responses would be near impossible to fake,
Speaker 2: especially when you're seeing physiological responses. I mean, like when
Speaker 2: you mentioned the dopaminergic response to hearing stories and or
Speaker 2: telling stories. It's easy for us to go, oh, that's
Speaker 2: interesting psychology. It's like, that's not psychology, that's biology. That's hardwired,
Speaker 2: you know, nuts and bolts, flesh and blood biology, and
Speaker 2: so some of these things are so deeply rooted and
Speaker 2: instantiated that I think they point to reality that this
Speaker 2: person is telling the truth. They really observed and experience
Speaker 2: what they claim to have.
Speaker 4: I love that you did that, that you read that passage,
Speaker 4: because I highlighted it. I was I was in there
Speaker 4: raising my hand giving you hot fives. When I read it,
Speaker 4: because it's so true and it's so clear that that's
Speaker 4: exactly what why you see that in people. It is
Speaker 4: not easily acted out.
Speaker 5: It is biological.
Speaker 4: So it's one of those tells I guess you can
Speaker 4: use you know that something's going on.
Speaker 5: I highlighted a lot in your book.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that very much, and especially given your background.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad to hear that those sections resonated with
Speaker 2: you because I tried to accumulate a lot of literature
Speaker 2: on those things, but obviously I'm not an expert, not
Speaker 2: even close to it in those fields. Well, yeah, I
Speaker 2: know we're coming up on our time frame here. But
Speaker 2: the question that I would have that I think the
Speaker 2: audience would have to is, Liz, since we're all invested
Speaker 2: in listening to stories that come from claimants or you know, witnesses, observers, experiencers,
Speaker 2: et cetera, like, what should we be listening for? Are
Speaker 2: there any tools that we should arm ourselves with to
Speaker 2: evaluate claims and stories of that nature because we are
Speaker 2: sort of swimming in a sea of them at the moment.
Speaker 2: As regards the sasquatch, So is there any advice from
Speaker 2: your expertise that you could offer to us or our listeners.
Speaker 4: I don't think any that we've you know, Like I said,
Speaker 4: I mean, my expertise is not in storytelling, but you know,
Speaker 4: I've been a student of it, I guess is the
Speaker 4: best way to say it for all these years because
Speaker 4: of what I've.
Speaker 5: Done, you know.
Speaker 4: But just keeping your eyes white and your ears wide open.
Speaker 4: And I think you all are pretty expert at that
Speaker 4: by now because you take a lot of reports, so
Speaker 4: you know how to wage through the junk, you know,
Speaker 4: and be able to ask the right questions. That's that's
Speaker 4: an import thing that I learned when I was doing
Speaker 4: the composite work and being able to because when I
Speaker 4: saw people, they usually it was right after something happened,
Speaker 4: like a bank robbery, you know, and so you had
Speaker 4: to calm them down first to even get anything out
Speaker 4: of them. And so being able to just keep your
Speaker 4: eyes and your ears open and read between the lines
Speaker 4: and be able to ask the right questions that ell
Speaker 4: elicit more response.
Speaker 3: How often would you have to do this sketches like
Speaker 3: it was pretty common? It was only for major crimes.
Speaker 4: No, it was mainly major crimes are ones that they
Speaker 4: didn't have. It was a lot of bank robberies, a
Speaker 4: couple of some murders. It was usually those, and then
Speaker 4: a sasquatch. You know, they were fine, especially when you
Speaker 4: have I had one one time that was a bank robbery.
Speaker 4: It was up here where I live now. And because
Speaker 4: when I left Florida and I moved up north, I
Speaker 4: still I did criminal composites for a while with the
Speaker 4: police department. And I had one that was a bank robbery,
Speaker 4: and it was a bunch of women, and so I
Speaker 4: had to.
Speaker 5: Get them to calm down.
Speaker 4: And then once I got the picture, the funny thing
Speaker 4: was the guy was wearing a railroad conductor's hat, and
Speaker 4: he was an older man, and he had a railroad
Speaker 4: conductor's hat, and he had sat down in the lobby
Speaker 4: for quite a while, and all the women said the
Speaker 4: same thing, the hat. You know, well that's something I
Speaker 4: don't even need to know what he looks like if
Speaker 4: he had the hat on. And the agent came in
Speaker 4: and took one picture of one look at the picture
Speaker 4: and said, I know that guy. Let's go pick him up.
Speaker 4: He just got out of jail, out of prison.
Speaker 3: So if you were going to commit a crime, would
Speaker 3: it be better to wear something like that, like a
Speaker 3: Abe Lincoln hat, because you were going to look at
Speaker 3: the hat and not your face. Or is it just
Speaker 3: try to people that remember you. Bet. I mean they're
Speaker 3: going to remember you better because of the Habit would
Speaker 3: make them remember your face less.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't give Bobo advice on giving on doing crimes careful.
Speaker 3: I'll ask you for a friend.
Speaker 5: That's a good question, you know.
Speaker 4: It seems like, yes, that would be a good thing
Speaker 4: because it would draw the eye to that thing and
Speaker 4: not to your face. That's a great idea, Bobo, But
Speaker 4: I'm not giving that out to people.
Speaker 1: Well, well, Liz, thank you very much for coming on
Speaker 1: Bigfoot and Beyond. We really do appreciate it, and it
Speaker 1: is an interesting story, and I really appreciate the psychological
Speaker 1: aspects that you brought to the conversation. And it's fun
Speaker 1: to hear all the old teaching lingo again too, as
Speaker 1: I've been out of the classroom quite a while now,
Speaker 1: so talk about modalities and all that stuff. I really
Speaker 1: do use that stuff probably on a weekly basis even now,
Speaker 1: even now, because you know, at the museum here we
Speaker 1: try to be we try to cater to multiple modalities.
Speaker 1: You know, we have things to listen to, we have
Speaker 1: things to see, we have things to touch, all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff and smell even you know, we have
Speaker 1: We try to attack the various modalities here or in
Speaker 1: the shop because I may not be in the classroom
Speaker 1: any longer, but I still view myself as an educator.
Speaker 1: It's one of the three main components to the mission
Speaker 1: goals that the NABC is to educate the public. The
Speaker 1: sasquatches are just real animals, just doing what they do.
Speaker 1: So we really do appreciate your time and expertise and
Speaker 1: your thoughts and just thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for having me on. I didn't think
Speaker 4: I had anything to add, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Liz. I really do want to see you.
Speaker 3: I'd love to see you draw, just as like a
Speaker 3: little exercise on memory draw and you think it looked
Speaker 3: like and then when you find the original comparison, I
Speaker 3: think that'd be really interesting.
Speaker 1: And I wasn't joking. I would be happy to display
Speaker 1: that in the museum. So if you do happen to
Speaker 1: do that, reach out to me at the museum North
Speaker 1: American Bigfoot Center at gmail dot com and just just
Speaker 1: shoot me an email let me know that you've done.
Speaker 1: You take a picture of it. I'll print it up.
Speaker 1: I'll take all the costs, all that sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: and I would just I would just love to see
Speaker 1: what you come up with. So if you do that,
Speaker 1: please do reach out to me.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I will all right.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much Liz for coming on, and I'll
Speaker 1: let Bobo take it out from here.
Speaker 3: Ye, thank you, Liz. That was really interesting. That was
Speaker 3: a good conversation. Okay, folks, thanks for listening and tuning in.
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