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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekenana Show.

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I am here again with Thomas seven seven seven, but

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we have something a little different, a little diversion plans

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for today. How are you doing, Thomas.

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Speaker 2: I'm well, thank you, thanks for hosting me again as always.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I had contacted you and said, instead of

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Cold War Part six with the holidays coming up, let's

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pick that up after the holidays were over. But there

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was a book that I read a few years ago

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when I found out how how many people at the time,

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influential people, people who became leaders, were inspired by it.

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Reflections on Violence by Sorel. And then I found out

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that the Imperium Press version had a forward by you,

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So I decided to have you on and let's discuss it.

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I think that this can go in a lot of

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different directions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity man definitely.

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Speaker 1: When did Cerell come on your radar? Like, when did

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you read him first?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because a lot of people, a

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lot of people associate Cerel like and some of these

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other thinkers with with kind of the rise of like,

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you know, a kind of right wing subculture on the Internet.

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I came to Cerel before that. I'm not trying to

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sound like some like original like or something like O G.

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He was like, oh I knew about Cerrell before. But

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in the stuff in the National Alliance would put out

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and then Situde for Historical Review, that stuff is pretty

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weighty man, you know, like William Pierce whatever, whatever anybody

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thinks of him or things of that whole scene. You know,

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he was, he was in He was a serious intellectual.

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You know, he read tons of stuff, some some of

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which I I didn't really connect with. You know, he

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was a big will William Gelly Simpson guy, and he

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was a big kind of you know, you spent a

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lot of time with you know a lot of this

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kind of like social Darwinist stuff that I don't put

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a lot of stock in. But uh, he'd reference George

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Sorell okay like on some of his adv broadcast us

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and more than a passing capacity, and the I HR

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and guys like Hke Thompson and Teth Stimley and and

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and the like like, they they'd raised Currel all the

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time and they considered him to be like a serious thinker.

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And one of the reasons why is because part of

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their whole part of their whole mandates, the IHR. I mean,

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they're just still putting out great content that's very very relevant.

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They made the transition to to the information age very seamlessly.

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But during the Cold War, you know, during the early

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Reagan era was kind of when when they launched and

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became really active. So obviously, like they were constantly kind

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of defending the revisionist perspective against allegations like, oh, well,

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you know, the Second World War among the things that

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you know, it was a fight against these like socialist

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uh conceits and and and the brutalities that derived there

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in and you know, the Third Reich it was just

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another socialist government and we all socialism as godless thing

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that you know, it doesn't have any likes to stand on.

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And why would anybody on the right, you know, paid

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any mind? And Sorell the the answer to that is

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because of the thinkers like Sorell. And even if you've

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gott no interest in kind of the different iterations of

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socialism and the revolutionary imperatives that you know kind of

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became the the the animating mythologies of these of these

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inner were of the of these early twentieth century and

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then later interwar ideologies. If you even you don't put

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a lot of stock in that, you get if you

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want to understand, if you want to understand European politics

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after nine, after seventeen eighty nine, you've got to be

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in dialogue with socialism and you've got to understand, you know, what, how,

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how how the right, how the revolutionary right was dealing

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with those realities, you know, And Sorell was kind of

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first among those thinkers. And if I basically accept Ernest

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Nolty's paradigm that uh the uh that that that that

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Italian fascism and things that the Flange Party in Spain,

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they were reacting. They were reaction against, you know, kind

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of the monarchist right and like the reactionary right as

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much as they were a reaction against Marxist Leninism, and

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then national socialism was u was a reaction to that.

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And in dialectical terms, like you know, some premises that

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were hostile and some that were not. But that's why

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I understand George Sorel. And in America and people think

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of the right, you know, they think of uh, they

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think of uh that, they think of Jeffersonians who uh

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you know, like like John C. Calhoun or they think

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of like America first guys in the twenty overth century,

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you know, and like that the Taft Republicans who were

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you know, who are anti New Deal and anti interventionists,

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and both of those guys, I mean, even the latter

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obviously they were kind of traditional Hamiltonian nationalists. But you know,

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their whole idea is you know, like get the government

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off your back, you know, uh, you know, and uh

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and and and decentralized authority and you know, the kind

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of ha on the on their own terms to the kind

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of class identities that most kind of European paradigms suggest

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are are what informs political reality. But Sorell wasn't a

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class warrior. And like we'll get into that, you know,

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like his Sorel's his his kind of he was, you know,

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like Nietzsche did before he viewed Crell viewed culture is

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like peaking early, you know, like the pre Soprietic Area era,

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you know, like the pre Peloponnesian War era of Dori Gathens.

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That's what Sorel, That's what thought was like the zenith

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of like human culture and political organization, like it wasn't

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some guy he was saying like, oh, we just got

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to give And he wasn't even he wasn't even like

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he wasn't even like the the Stefan George circle or

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like Earns the Younger. He wasn't even saying like, oh,

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we just we just got to inundate you know, the

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working class with some kind of like patriotic or like

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racial life identity. He wasn't saying that at all. He

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was saying that, you know, there's a way, there's a

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way to insinuate into revolutionary consciousness among the workers, like

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something that's like culturally elevated, you know, and that that

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will change things and you know, educate people in a

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way that you know is progressive, if not progressive with

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a capital key, but you know is progressive in terms

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of you know, allowing them to can septualize themselves and

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conceptualize you know, political action, and in ways outside of

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this like narrow like paradigm of like you know, hostility

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to capital and you know, control of one's labor and

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you know, like material justice in terms of you know,

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getting paid for one's labor. Like if you that's kind

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of banal, you know, not like that's not important. Obviously

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it's important, but they can't be the end all purpose

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of your political activity. And it certainly doesn't rationalize you know,

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like like murdering your own countryman wholesale. I mean, if

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that's what it comes down to, because that's you know

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what the proverbial gods ordain. Okay, I mean, you've got

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to deal with that in a manly and serious way

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and a stoic way. But that's not something you bind

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for just because uh, you know, it's it's like, well,

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you know, God is dead, so we were just gonna

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find some kind of catalysts, you know, for violence that

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can be rationalized in the language of the day. Like

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it wasn't saying that at all.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so let's talk a little bit about this

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because this is I mean, I've even written a little

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bit on this recently. It's the the socialist right. When

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you say, well, the national Socialists were on the right,

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people lose their minds. I mean, mind you, these are

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the same people who use the term capitalism and don't

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realize where the you know, they know where the term

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came from. So they're like, well, we're just taking that

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term for ourselves. And I think what they would say

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is the difference between the left and the right is egalitarianism.

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The left is egalitarian. So was the socialist right egalitarian.

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Speaker 2: Not in the sense of like like not not in

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a biological sense, and uh not in not in the

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way that like not not not in the way that

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in contemporary discourse people think of it. And I'll qualify

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it too. Even a lot of people, a lot of

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people shouldn't know better, misunderstand to what Marxy and equality was,

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you know, the whole like the secular human is. They've taken,

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you know, the idea of quote human dignity and kind

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of extraptly they all kind of strange things out of it.

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But Marx, I've got nothing nice to say about Marx

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and Lenin. When Marx was talking about quote equality, he

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was talking about a kind of equal dignity across the

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class divide and across you know, kind of the like

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the you know, and and and eliminating and eliminating these

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kinds of contrived distinctions between people based on rank, you know,

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and uh, you know this and and and and from there,

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you know, like affording that kind of elevated dignity to

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the workers whom you know, in his estimation, were were

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the we're the ones responsible for generating the wealth of

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the nation. Okay, he wasn't saying like, oh men, women

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are exactly the same, or like there's no differences in

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intelligence between men. Like that's a weird kind of cope

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that that that that like post ninety forty five cope

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that you know, people who wanted to kind of maintain

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people who were not going to attack the capitalist system

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on structural terms. You know, that was kind of like

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what they'd invoke in order to say like no, actually,

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like we're we're more morally sound than than, you know,

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than than the Marxists and in in the Soviet Union

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and their satellite states. That's important to keep in mind.

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But the uh, the idea of socialism, you know, it

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didn't originate with Marx and that was that was one

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of Spangler's important points. Like even if you don't accept

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Spangler's view of history and you think it's like, you know,

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just kind of needlessly esoteric and mystical, his uh, his essay,

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his essay Prussian Prussianism and Socialism, and then later well,

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let's a degree is a book. I mean it's yeah,

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it's like a longer. I say that it's been turned,

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it's been beefed up with like secondary analyzes, but the

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hour of decision like basically the modern state as we

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know it in structural terms like os to the Prussian

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state okay, everything from the military draft you know, to

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public education you know, to having like pensions for for

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retired people like that that came from the Prussians, Okay,

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and I mean even that that's literallyly in America too,

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like early education is kindergarten, okay, like it's not an accident. Okay.

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I mean, so that's some and this is something that

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you could be openly acknowledged, like it's not so much anymore.

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I mean some that's political something that's just because people

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are kind of ignorant. But you know, it's not like

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it's not like when Marx and Engels put their proverbial

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ink to paper. It's not like they it's it's not

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like it's not like Europe was, you know, like this

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feudal society or some or something in Jeffers in Yalemen

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society like the Confederate States, and they were like, you

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know what, we need to like beef up a government

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that and you know provide equity, you know, to people

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based on their labor and can like look after like

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old folks. What they were doing was they were taking

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something that already existed in places like Prussia and to

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a lesser degree, you know, in places like France and

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the Habsburg Empire and saying like, okay, we've got to

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like improve upon this and make it into a progressive

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instrumentality to advance history. So this that's important your mind too.

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Like if you're a European writing, you know, in the

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in the in the nineteen hundreds, like Sorell, like you

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were looking backwards at you know, your political heritage going

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back about three centuries. We're just looking at Mars and saying, oh,

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I see Marx's idea. I can improve upon that and

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make it acceptable to the right. So that's important to

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keep in mind. And you know, kind of the kind

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of the first truly socialist institution is the modern military,

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Like it is okay, Like it's not the military's a

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lot of things. What it's not is it's not some

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robustly capitalist thing. Okay, I mean it's and the Prussians,

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arguably this was their strength and their weakness. Prussia really

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is a wasteland. There's like nothing there, Okay. I mean

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you can like farm dirt and rocks and uh you've

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got you've got port access. But I mean other than that,

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it's and you're surrounded by hostiles, okay. And I mean

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and obviously like Prussia was, Prussia was the Germans weren't

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the original occupants of Prussia, Okay, there was, there was,

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There was. There was a barbarian element there, like a

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truely like pagan barbarian element of indigenous Slavs that the

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ethnically cleansed. Notcause the Germans are bad guys. I mean

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at the cleansing is it was just wasn't It's just

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the way it thinks, especially that part of the world.

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But the kind of key institution of the Prussian state

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was the Prussian Army. That's what made it possible. It

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was literally like this garrison state, okay. And so from

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that that's what they extrapolated kind of like their model

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of what of what of what society should look like

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and how it should be organized. Like there's very much

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an odds like the Anglo American sensibility, but that's a

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lot of things you can say that that's authoritarian. You

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can say that doesn't respect people's freedom or individual liberty.

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You can say that in some way it stunts like creativity,

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and maybe it does. I don't see it that way,

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but I also want to hold it out. It's like

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the zene of the human political development. But one thing

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it's not is it all like left wing or or liberal.

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I mean, it's it's the opposite and extreme terms, you know,

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I mean because yeah, like a military type structure, a

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venture model, like, yeah, there's some kind of basic there there,

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there's there's some kind of basic cohesion and respect for

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like the various ranks. But it's it's singularly obsessed with rank,

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you know. It's it's the elm of hierarchy. It has

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no conceit that like, oh world equals here, you know

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at uh, it's very in fact that it very much

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repudiates that. So that's another important keep in mind, and

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that that's basically what Sorel was getting in that, you know,

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it is uh like what he was calling for is

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you know, uh, a socialism that you know makes meaningful

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cultural activity possible and that reflects you know, basic human

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nature in some way that's not totally at odds and

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reality but again too, he was like he looked at

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dance like as a means of because again like his model,

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he's not saying like, oh, the kaiser Reich is so great,

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or you know, Frederick, the seconds Prussia is so great.

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Like what he was saying was that, you know, things

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went wrong when uh, things went wrong when men like

267
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Socrates became powerful in ancient Athens. You know, like his

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his ideal was the the pre Socratic uh, you know

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pelopon Uses.

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Speaker 1: So the socialist right when they're coming to power, are

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they is there a rebellion against establishment liberalism or is

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there a rebellion against what is growing communism.

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Speaker 2: At the time, I mean it was both, but it

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depended than where you were at. If we're going to

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use Vymar as kind of the I mean, obviously like

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Swell with writing in the pre Buymar era in a

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situation in France is more complicated. But if you're talking

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about the real like if you're talking about the true

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kind of divide dialectically and socially as well as politically

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and in terms of our conflict, obviously you know it

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came down to like actual civil war that plays like Munich.

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There's a couple of things going on in the Weimar years.

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You had UH, you had organizations like the Stalhelm you know,

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that were basically you know, kaiser wright veterans who wanted

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to turn things back to the way they were. But

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they and you know, and they they they were fighting

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the case. They were the guys who constituted the early

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Free Corps. But then you had guys, you had guys

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like Ernest Rahm and Joseph Gerbels who basically saw the

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Communists as essentially correct in their methods, that they were

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just you know, wrong in their in their ideological conceits.

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You know. Gerbels would go as far as he he'd

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organized street protests with the KPD, you know, to bring

294
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to bring down the UH, the unions that were like

295
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friendly to the Social Democrats, you know, and UH. And

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this made a lot of people upset. And Gebels was

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the one kind of stress or infection national socialist dinner

298
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party man who survived the night at June h of

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June nineteen thirty four. You know. So that's something to

300
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keep in mind. I think what really like, I think

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national socialism like ossified into what it truly was when

302
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when Hindenburg told the Hitler that Ernst Rahm and all

303
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of his fellows and Stress had to die. And then

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Hitler gave the order, and then Himmler and Seb Dietrich

305
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and the rest of them not just carried it out,

306
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but they also murdered guys like Kurt Schliker. I mean

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that that was that's kind of like what turn national

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socialism into like a a pretty conventional right wing tendency. Honestly,

309
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like I uh, not not in the sense of you know,

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not not not not right wing in terms of like

311
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Donald Trump, or not even right wing in terms of

312
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,400
like Robert Taft, but by European standards, the Third Right

313
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was more conventionally right wing than people will acknowledge. I

314
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mean they because there's there's moronic stuff like like Joan

315
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Goldberg saying like, oh Fishers or a bunch of like

316
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Hillary Clinton liberals or something like. But but there's serious

317
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people too who aren't prone to that kind of moronic stuff,

318
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who don't like really understand because they you know, they

319
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:41,240
read these like dispatches from uh, from from Dietrich Eckert

320
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then and from Ernst ron like saying that yeah, God

321
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is dead, you know, like the hell with the capital

322
00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:48,319
listen to Jews like burn everything down. You know, we're

323
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gonna we're gonna march on everything, and we're gonna kill everybody,

324
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and we're gonna build those like new Society of the

325
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barss like that. I mean, those don't get me wrong.

326
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Those guys are serious about that. That wasn't That wasn't

327
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just like so much talk. And a lot of them

328
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are frankly cyple bands. Well they they that that that

329
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that came to an end in June nineteen thirty four.

330
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And if if you're if you're killing people because a

331
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man like Hindenburg is telling you that, like you know,

332
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these men are these met are red revolutionary rebel. We

333
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have to be stopped. Like you're a lot of things,

334
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but you're not left wing, okay when you're executing that order. So,

335
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I mean, that's my opinion. I know some people disagree

336
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with I. I've been studying the topic for a lot

337
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of years. I think I have some insight into.

338
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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about what you you said

339
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about Europe and how Europe defined things differently than here.

340
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When socialism or communism is mentioned here, it almost seems

341
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like we just have this we know exactly what's being said.

342
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But from a European standpoint, especially at that time when

343
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socialism was spoken of or communism was spoken of, how

344
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did the European culture make it a different interpretation? Even

345
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when you read Yaki, you know Yaki when he's talking

346
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about when he's talking about Europe, it's a different language

347
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than the language that we're used to reading in the

348
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books that you know, we're basically written by the victors.

349
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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, definitely. Well it's also too it goes back

350
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to it goes back to sociological origins, you know. I

351
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mean America has some depending on where you fall on

352
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it ethically, but also just depending on what kind of

353
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weight you put on the different variables. You know, America

354
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is something of an incomplete society. I mean that's either

355
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good or bad. But you know, everything that Europe was

356
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,440
trying to do in the modern era, okay, and it's

357
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zenith in the twentieth century. We were trying to repair

358
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the social fabriak in some ethical way that had been

359
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smashed after them after the Middle Ages. Okay. In the

360
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Middle Ages, there's this basic interdependence between everybody, you know, Uh,

361
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the lords were dependent upon the serfs. Both were dependent

362
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upon the king, and the intermediary between the two of

363
00:20:08,799 --> 00:20:12,039
them was the clergy. You know, these people couldn't survive

364
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,279
without each other. Like that cannot be overstated. You know

365
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this idea that if you were like a lord of

366
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the manor you know, you could just act like the

367
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character in that silly mad Max movie who's like, you know,

368
00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:27,480
for widering people to worship him from border or something like.

369
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That's not That's not the way things were. Like I'm

370
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,440
not saying if you were a medieval serf, I'm not

371
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,960
saying to have some great life, and I'm not saying

372
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,759
you had some I'm not saying you had adequate remedies.

373
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If if you had a cruel master, but he needed you.

374
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You know, he could not defend the land without you,

375
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he could not chill the land without you. He had nothing.

376
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If if if you were not willing to work. But

377
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in contrast, like you had, you had no access to justice,

378
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and you had you had no nobody to navigate for

379
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,920
you with with with royal authority, like if he did

380
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,920
not exist. I mean, you had the church too, but

381
00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:02,519
that was that the church weren't men who worked. They

382
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:05,279
did very important things, but they they operate in a

383
00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:07,960
totally different world. I mean, so it's you didn't have

384
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,359
a direct line to authority unless you know, you had

385
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,039
a rapport with the lord of the manner. So that's

386
00:21:13,079 --> 00:21:17,839
fundamentally important. Would changed in the modern age and reached

387
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,640
kind of its critical and in every sense you know,

388
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,319
and like in existential terms and consideral terms, reached it's

389
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,599
kind of critical state. In the twentieth century, you know,

390
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:32,960
people were ripped off the land, they were thrown into

391
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,680
factories that literally employed tens of thousands of people in

392
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,839
these dangerous conditions where you were insinuated into some machine,

393
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,359
you know, for hours and hours a day. I mean,

394
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,119
if you died on the job, nobody really cared, or

395
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,759
if they did, it's say, well it's so much it's

396
00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:48,960
a mark in a Ledger book, you know, like you

397
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,160
don't have any rights. And it's not even even if

398
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,519
somebody wanted to confer upon you some kind of voice

399
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,680
or wanted to you know, kind of make you a

400
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,480
lot like better. Just like the velocity of production and

401
00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:03,000
the traje three of things, like there was you didn't

402
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:06,559
you didn't matter, you know, you were you became totally dehumanized,

403
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,559
you know, and that's what the socialists were trying to do.

404
00:22:09,599 --> 00:22:11,799
And they're like we on the right and the left,

405
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:14,319
they're like, you know, we we've got to repair this

406
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,519
kind of social fabric and this inerdependence and there's basical

407
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,440
basic ethical unity of classes and functions, you know, so

408
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,359
that people aren't being treated like a commodity and so

409
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,119
that like when they die in the job, you know,

410
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,960
they're just not like shoveled away like so much garbage,

411
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:31,440
like literally, you know, I mean, that's that's the way

412
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,160
to keep in mind. That's the thing to keep in mind.

413
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,119
Like in America, there there wasn't some medieval order from

414
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,160
which things originated, like even in the South, like people,

415
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,680
I know, the Southerners themselves kind of looked at themselves

416
00:22:43,759 --> 00:22:47,839
as uh as uh as. It's kind of like lords

417
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:50,839
and knights, which wasn't totally inaccurate, but it was more

418
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,920
like but again, it was more like Athens than it

419
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:55,839
was like uh then then it was like you know,

420
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,359
a thirteenth century England, you know, like you had like

421
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,799
the South is made up of like Kulak twypes. You know,

422
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:05,359
there were white serfs and there were black slaves, but

423
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,200
they weren't the majority. The majority was not like rich

424
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,680
plantation owners and like poor serfs and like slaves who

425
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,359
were property like. The majority was like small freehold farmers

426
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,599
who were doing their own thing. And that's that's supposedly

427
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,000
the American ideal. Okay, like now it's like a small businessman.

428
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,680
I'm not saying that the actually the way things are,

429
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:27,960
but that's like what's idealized. But you know, the in America,

430
00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:32,000
if you're on the right, your idea isn't like, well,

431
00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:34,359
you know, we gotta we gotta bring things back to

432
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,680
you know, the throne and altar and like reverence for

433
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,079
God and God's emissaries on earth, and you know, we

434
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,759
got to create some kind of codependent between the classes

435
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:45,319
that's not dysfunctional. Like the ideal is like, you know,

436
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,279
I need I need to be given the opportunity to

437
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,079
like till the land and get what's mine and you know,

438
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,359
had the government stay off my bed, not take the

439
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,000
fruit of my labor. I mean, the totally different sensibility,

440
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,799
but one is not superior to the other. I mean,

441
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:01,640
obviously I'm more sympathetic to the American model because that's

442
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,720
my heritage and I you know, and then plus that's

443
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,640
just like what's realistic, Like you can't, well there is that,

444
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,119
did GOPHI when? I mean I realized some of those polemical,

445
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,599
but some of these idiots actually believe this. Like when

446
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,759
when like when like regime loyal people are when these

447
00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:18,519
like mother Jones types claimed that like Donald Trump's this

448
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,160
big fascist or something. I mean, that's like retarded from

449
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,160
as a reason. But like some radical right wing guy

450
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,440
like if George Wallas become president or he would want

451
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,839
to become president, it would not look anything like Germany

452
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,599
in nineteen thirty three. You're like Italy in nineteen twenty two.

453
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,240
Like that's ridiculous. That's not the way we do things here.

454
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,359
Like that's like that's like saying that that says retarded

455
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,920
as saying like oh, if Donald Trump paid his way,

456
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:42,960
you know he would he would he you know, he

457
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,240
would be like the holy Roman Emperor. Like it doesn't

458
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:48,759
it doesn't make any sense. But I you know, like

459
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,359
I made the point before that the entire like civic

460
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,400
religion of America is like is anti fascism, which which

461
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,799
is particularly kind of aside in this country. But yeah, well.

462
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: That that set me up perfectly, so we know because

463
00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:08,960
you know, Genteel Gentili wrote what fascism was in Italy,

464
00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:13,799
but as far as I know, you know, really nobody

465
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,559
in Germany at the time was writing what socialism meant

466
00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:21,640
to them? What socialist? You know, you can listen to

467
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,799
the Strasser debates and everything, and you can get it.

468
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,599
You can get an idea, but in your opinion, what

469
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:31,480
what the national socialism of Germany? What did what did

470
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,119
that socialism actually mean?

471
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,039
Speaker 2: I mean they were drawing upon a couple of things,

472
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:38,079
and if you read there's not a lot you can extrapolate.

473
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:42,279
I was telling people to read Hitler's second book because

474
00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:46,240
it's instructive, but it flushes out as geostrategic ideas and

475
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,720
some other things, and it's just interesting reading. You know,

476
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,400
it was never published, like the manuscript was found by

477
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,440
the US Army and then it was handed over to

478
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,839
its handled an Army intelligence and chain of custody was weird,

479
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,279
but it is. It has been authenticated. I mean it

480
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:05,240
was it was Taylor's actual manuscript, but it wasn't published

481
00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:09,319
and available at public until after the war. But you know, people,

482
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,160
there's not like there's not only you can extrap away

483
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,359
from mine. Cop that's why it's idiotic. But people, oh,

484
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,480
it's a boring book. It's like, well, yeah, it's it's

485
00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:18,759
it's it's an electioneer screed from the nineteen twenties, Like

486
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:23,359
why why would it be interesting today? But what is

487
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,519
interesting like when he talks about when he when when

488
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:33,880
Hiller talks about his his ideas on conflict between human populations,

489
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,200
like that's that's instructive. And also, you know, I made

490
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,720
the point of people before Hitler was he was just

491
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:46,880
Catholic Habsburg, Austrian who uh basically identified his movements as

492
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,759
the legacy of the Prussian state. And you know, the

493
00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:54,279
the December eleventh speech the Reichstag, which is really Hitler's

494
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,839
last public address of the Reichstag. You know, that's like

495
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,920
when he issued the declaration of war against America, he

496
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:05,480
talks about, uh, he talks about we like the royal

497
00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:07,680
we like in a reference to the Prussians and the

498
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:11,240
Napoleonic Wars. Okay, so I mean he's saying like and

499
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:13,599
then then that's notable because like, you know, Prussia was

500
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,519
at odds with the rest of the German kingdoms. I

501
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:18,880
mean that's a little bit off topic, but he as

502
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,119
it may like Adalf Hitler himself. If Adolf Hitler is

503
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,079
like the standard bearer of like right wing socialism in Bymar,

504
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:26,680
which I mean, I think I think we can say

505
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,960
that he was, because he's the man who became king. Proverbially,

506
00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:33,519
his view was what I just said, It was that

507
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,680
you know, the the proper like German, the proper German

508
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,640
model of a national life is is Prussia, and and

509
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,920
the Prussian model was based on was based on the army,

510
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,559
and you know the the cynegepe baratus that that were

511
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:53,119
vote around that. So I mean that's the way, that's

512
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,519
what you can think of German socialism. Of course, to

513
00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:59,319
your point, guys like Strasser, guys like ram Uh Kurt

514
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,440
von schleik Or I think was a lesser aristocrat who

515
00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:05,039
was basically cynical and he didn't really care, but he

516
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,759
was obviously through his lot with with Strasser and Rahm

517
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,880
because he wanted to destroy Hitler. But all these guys,

518
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,200
at least what they were advocating in public was they

519
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,359
were saying, like, you know, Hitler is a tool of

520
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,759
the bourgeoisie. He's not really a revolutionary, he's just a reactionary,

521
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,559
and he's a petty bourgeois buffoon. So I mean the

522
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,160
note true Scotsman stuff about socialism. A lot of that

523
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,400
was interesting rivalry between national socialists. It's not like the

524
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,480
German street was. We're like nineteen seventies era, like you

525
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,759
know Berkeley types, you know, talking about like who's a

526
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:43,519
real socialist. It was a lot more. It was a

527
00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:46,200
lot less existential and like a lot more like polemical

528
00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:48,680
and kind of cynical than that. I mean, that's my view,

529
00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:53,599
and I think i'm something. It's not an expert. I

530
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,880
think I have some I think I have some expertise

531
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,079
on the topic. At least.

532
00:28:58,319 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: I want to get back to Sorel, but I wanted

533
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:04,960
to mention this. So you mentioned that Prussia was based

534
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,160
off of the military. A lot of people, a lot

535
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,039
of Americans, point out that, you know, Prussian schooling is

536
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,839
you know, what's his name, I can't even remember his name. Now,

537
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,839
he went to Prussia, saw saw how the schooling was done,

538
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,279
and basically brought it back. And but what a lot

539
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:31,759
of people will say is that all that schooling is

540
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:35,440
meant to do is turn people into a cog in

541
00:29:35,559 --> 00:29:39,920
the machine to be plugged in. So if that is true.

542
00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:45,119
It seems like that is creating a group of people

543
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,000
in that there the students. If the students are all

544
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:54,079
learning the same thing, then that could be seen as egalitarian.

545
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, well the difference two of courses. Yeah, it's not

546
00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:02,400
just that. Know, the Prussian model identifies that, you know,

547
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,559
the vast difference in human intellect and abilities and kind

548
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:08,640
of organizes people and the perobial slots or organize them

549
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,519
based on you know, how those things can be cultivated

550
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:14,319
and utilized. But also like the core of the Prussian

551
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:18,480
ethos is, you know, the the racial community. So if

552
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:20,920
you take that Prussian model, when you utilize it as

553
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,440
kind of a way of of the rant and people

554
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,400
and saying, Okay, you're not like a Mexican, You're not

555
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,160
like a white man. You're not you're not black. You know,

556
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,680
you're not you're not Asian, You're you're just you're just American.

557
00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:34,359
You just have the civic identity where you're not gonna

558
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,559
speak your own language anymore. You know, you're not gonna

559
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:39,640
go to your own church anymore. You're not gonna you know,

560
00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:43,960
you're not gonna abide these habits anymore of your forebears,

561
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,680
you know, like that's like that's what's really asitious about

562
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:51,039
like the New Dealer or like American model. It's not

563
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:53,400
it's not so much that it declares that like every

564
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,480
man is gonna have some kind of like income in common,

565
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:57,160
or that it's going to like reduce you know, like

566
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,559
the proverbial disparity you know, between the ownership cast than

567
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,880
what was then the working cast. Like what was insidious

568
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,119
about is that it was tailed to essentially like strict

569
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,000
people of any ability to live historically and any like

570
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:13,319
meaningful you know, actual cultural identity. You know, it's gonna

571
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:16,400
like alienate Mann from his heritage and from history in

572
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,319
absolute terms. Like that's the big difference. And that's also

573
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,359
why I object a lot. There's something to it when

574
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:27,640
people talk about quote cultural Marxism, if they're talking about

575
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,960
Gramsey and Adorno like contra marx and angles, but they

576
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,720
don't understand that like a lot of this, a lot

577
00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:36,920
of this doesn't have to do with Orthodox and Marxism

578
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:39,880
or Frankward school stuff at all. A lot of it's

579
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,440
like New Dealer bullshit, you know, like raceline, Like God

580
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:46,359
is dead. You know, we we we know now that

581
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,880
like everything is reducible to you know, data derived from

582
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,000
the scientific method. You know, the man's basically just like

583
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,920
an animal who can talk, and you know, there's no

584
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,319
more history and there's no more culture. All that matters

585
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,680
is making man more suitable to governance and eliminating these

586
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,599
you know, these problems like you know, like like like

587
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,839
conflict between the races, or like men and women not

588
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,640
getting along, like that's like.

589
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:11,599
Speaker 1: That kind of or family. I mean, just read the

590
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,000
authoritarian personality.

591
00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean there's like a pastiche like

592
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,759
definitely like Frankward school stuff and and and that kind

593
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:23,200
of thing became pre eminent like in especially like as

594
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,440
as the American left broke entirely, not just the American left,

595
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,279
but in Europe, like with the left just in in

596
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,200
Macro terms, like broke with like Stalinism and decided like

597
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,640
the East Block or their enemy. I mean, this was

598
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,039
long in coming, but they were looking around or some

599
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,359
kind of or some ideological cannon and they settled down

600
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,839
like the Frankward school. But this is also what had

601
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,880
been turned loose on on on on divided Germany, you know,

602
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,079
I mean, so there's a lot of things. Yeah, this

603
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,279
definitely became part of like the American conceptual arise, like

604
00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:56,160
in policy terms as well as academic and electual terms.

605
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,599
But there was a lot of stuff that also like

606
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,440
preceded it, you know, like these fools like were uh

607
00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:03,079
who built like that part of education and all that

608
00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:05,759
kind of stuff, and and these and these, uh and

609
00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:07,920
even even even a lot of guys who proceeded in

610
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,599
their dealers like Colonel House, who was uh, you know,

611
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,400
Wills kind of the Wilson's uh kind of Machiavelli, you know,

612
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,359
administered without portfolio like uh, even he was like prone

613
00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:21,359
to a lot of that kind of nonsense. Like House

614
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,880
wrote that he wrote this really bad science fiction novel

615
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,519
where there was like this benevolent dictator who was obviously

616
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:30,079
supposed to be himself, and uh he basically like you know,

617
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,279
finds a way to like strip man of any like

618
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,559
historical identity and he like forces everybody to speak this

619
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,440
like esperantial language. So now there's like no more war,

620
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,160
and this great man becomes like God on earth because

621
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,440
there's no more war. And it's like why why would

622
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:46,359
that be remotely desirable? It sounds like a nightmare. Like

623
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:48,759
like idiots like Colonel House like there's some like great

624
00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:53,160
utopia that like you know that quits government of any

625
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,039
criticism because you know, the the greatest thing ever is

626
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,359
somehow like if black kids had high test scores and

627
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,440
like everyone he was going to be prison were war

628
00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:04,359
is impossible? Like Nova explain like why these things are

629
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,400
so awesome, but like that's their conceit.

630
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,119
Speaker 1: Let me just uh try to nail down exactly what

631
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,280
you meant when I when I mentioned the Prussian schooling.

632
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:18,400
So in Prussia, if your if your goal is to

633
00:34:18,559 --> 00:34:22,639
educate everyone and bring them down into a cohesive culture

634
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:29,559
that works within itself, and that's what the Prussian that's

635
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,639
what the Prussian education system meant to do. But if

636
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,760
you if you transfer that over into the United States,

637
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:42,559
now you're stripping a multi cultural society and you're saying

638
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:46,239
everyone has to be one. And obviously some are going

639
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,880
to rebel against that and not and the ones that

640
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:54,400
don't rebel against it are going to basically lose what

641
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,159
kind of social cohesion they have within their own community.

642
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,599
Speaker 2: No exactly, And that's what I one of the things

643
00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:03,760
that brought to the United States and the Soviet Union together.

644
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,199
I'm talking you know, like the new Deal Stalinist alliance,

645
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:11,119
like on it's based in geo strategic terms, it doesn't

646
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:13,639
make a lot of sense. Like I what Lindbergh said

647
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,079
and what Houston Stewart Chamberlain said, they I mean, yeah,

648
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:20,519
those guys obviously had political and aesthetic preferences for Germany,

649
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,119
but in ragio strategic terms, it doesn't really make sense

650
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,719
for America in the UK to decide they're going to

651
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,360
annihilate Germany an alliance with Russia. Like what makes sense

652
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,000
is for you know, Europe, led by Germany, the UK

653
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,719
and the United States, you know, to house do this

654
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,440
kind of ramparts against the East. You know, whether it's China,

655
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,880
whether it's Russia, you know, whatever it is. Okay, that's

656
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,320
there's there's a basic iologic to uh to what developed.

657
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,559
And one of the reasons why that happened was uh

658
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:57,719
ideological necessity. And the United States from the Soviet Union

659
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:04,480
when about irrationality of their objectives domestically, uh, there they

660
00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:07,079
had similar problems, you know, Stealin's big problem with the

661
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:09,920
nationalities problem, you know, like how do I strip everybody

662
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:12,559
their ethnic identity and make them into new Soviet Man?

663
00:36:13,159 --> 00:36:16,280
And the New Dealers were like they had the same problem,

664
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:18,320
you know, like how do you like destroy like the

665
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,440
nationalities in America? You know, And and I mean that

666
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:24,400
this still goes on in the day. Like that's why

667
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,840
in typical fashion, when the regime talks about quote multiculturalism,

668
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,559
they're talking about the opposite. They don't about like the

669
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:34,840
eradication of all cultures, you know. But that's there's very

670
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,840
few I mean that is now there's not a hell

671
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,719
of a lot of states or organized like the United

672
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,880
States or like the Soviet Union was, Like it's not

673
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,679
it's not a natural political mode of organization. So you

674
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,599
can do one or two things there. You know. You

675
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:51,840
can either you can either you can either rule by

676
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,079
way like kind of evolve federalism, you know, and and

677
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,320
basically leave people alone to manage their own affairs within

678
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,360
their own culture spaces. Or but I mean government never

679
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:06,559
is wanting to do that, I mean, at least here,

680
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,719
so they're always gonna opt for this idea of of this,

681
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,159
you know, eradicating culture and ripping people out of out

682
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:19,880
of a historical existence. And both are I mean, that's

683
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,559
one of the things that brought down to soy Union.

684
00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:23,239
And that's all that's also one of the reasons why

685
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,159
post World War like America does not have moral legitimacy.

686
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:30,719
But that was definitely what they wanted to do. And

687
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,800
the but there's well it's gonna sound like a goofy example,

688
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,000
but I'm using it because it pops up again and again.

689
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:38,440
In the sixties, I read a lot of science fiction

690
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:40,920
from the era, and science fiction from that era wasn't

691
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,800
just entertainment. There's a lot of think tank guys. I

692
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,400
mean even to the until eighties and Jerry Pornell, who

693
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,639
was you know, kind of the Drivings my sdi like

694
00:37:48,679 --> 00:37:51,239
he wrote science fiction and he was when he you know,

695
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,440
incident to his like think tank and policy work and stuff.

696
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,760
But you know, there's that cornyal Star Trek episode where

697
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,000
like Captain Kirk and Spock they go down to this

698
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:03,119
planet and it's like the Third Reich and they know

699
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:05,920
how this is possible, like you know what I'm talking about, Yeah,

700
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,159
and then they and then ultimately it's unraveled, like, oh, well,

701
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:12,480
this guy in like the twenty second century, he created

702
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:15,719
like from the craft lands on this planet, the primitive humanoids,

703
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,719
but there are always a war and he's like, okay, well,

704
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,199
I know, I know how to resolve this. So we

705
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,920
created this like third rich style regime and then Kirk

706
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,000
like addresses gay audience, like, you know, this was the

707
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:27,480
most efficient government of all time. But you know they

708
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,000
they were they were brutal racist, so you know, that's

709
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,920
why it didn't work. But the idea was sent in

710
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,320
some way noble and that's that's interesting, and that that

711
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,440
comes up again and again, not just in like corny

712
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,920
science fiction, but in like policy papers, like we admire

713
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,599
the Prussian state because the Germans are great people, but

714
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,119
they're these brutal races. So that's why it didn't work.

715
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:48,679
But we've got to strapolate that here in some way,

716
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,360
but strip it up of these chauvinistic and like racialized

717
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,400
views and things. People don't think that way directly anymore.

718
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,840
It's spent finats in different ways, but that's like what

719
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,559
underlies it, especially in a place like Chicago, but nationwide,

720
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,559
like a great which these institutions people like, for granted,

721
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,840
are like things taken from the Prussian State. It's crazy,

722
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,519
you know, it really is. You know, the degree that's

723
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:16,000
not just me, that that that's not just me you know,

724
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:19,679
being ah like a teutonal file or something. I mean,

725
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:22,119
I'm sure like in part of that too, but it's

726
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,239
just like can't be denied. Like I'm not even saying

727
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,679
it's like a good or bad thing. It's just reality,

728
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:31,159
you know, and that people one time people were way

729
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:32,960
more kind of like directly cognit into that or at

730
00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:35,480
least willing to acknowledge it. Something that's important to consider.

731
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,480
All right, Why did it get back to the book?

732
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,079
Shut everybody?

733
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,119
Speaker 1: This is from Imperium Press reflection by Sorel and from

734
00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:49,039
the forward. I'm gonna read your words and have you

735
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,280
comments on this. It says, rather has already been alluded to.

736
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:02,679
Surrellian violence can best be understood as an absolute, uncompromising

737
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:10,239
and radical commitment to pure history, and blood letting parentheses

738
00:40:10,639 --> 00:40:13,440
one's own in the case of the martyr, and the

739
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:17,599
enemies in the case of the partisan, and blood letting

740
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,199
is the sanctifying process. And you go on to say

741
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,840
a partisan unwilling to die or commit homicide is no

742
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,199
more a political soldier or agent of history than would

743
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,639
be a lawgiver who is incapable for reasons of moral

744
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,840
or physical frailty of executing a death warrant. Issued by

745
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,159
order of the King's bench as an agent of exclusive

746
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:48,840
sovereign authority. Sorel viewed the modern bourgeoisie as particularly decadent

747
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,840
and harmful, but he did not think the conditions of

748
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:57,679
his epoch to be otherwise unique. All ruling regimes political

749
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,119
and social develop over time a kind of moral and

750
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,559
intellectual apathy that precludes its worthiness, or at least revokes

751
00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:09,199
its mandate to act in a role of guardianship or

752
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,559
standard bearer over the subject matter of its dominion. This

753
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:18,000
is not to suggest a Currell shared a secularized eschatological

754
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:23,239
vision of utopian salvation common to Marxists and progressives, which

755
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,760
posited that the condition of man or the state or

756
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:33,280
national community was capable of perfection by way of revolutionary processes. Rather,

757
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,079
he and I underline this, he viewed the fervor of

758
00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:43,199
violence as a hygienic mechanism entirely congruent at Congress with

759
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,519
his own rejection of the linear view of history.

760
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's the best way, it seems for both.

761
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,800
But it's it's hard to convey these things in in

762
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,280
kind of rational terms. But that's yeah, I mean, that's

763
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,079
the best way to think of to describe it. And

764
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:05,800
that's I mean, that's so the the degree of which uh,

765
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:12,360
I mean this also this uh, some of this sorell

766
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,239
was definitely like in in in direct dialogue with the Maestra.

767
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,599
But some of this, again is found in in the

768
00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:26,679
kind of pre Socratic hero epics, like like so I

769
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,760
saw the the Socratic uh what what he used, like

770
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,639
the decadence of the Socratic uh era in Athens. He said,

771
00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:38,719
what you were left with was, you know, instead of this,

772
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,440
instead of this mono class of Yalemen farmers, you know, uh,

773
00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:44,840
the best of whom you know rose to leadership rank

774
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,880
whose use education and system mythology and hero epics, what

775
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,159
you had was they developed this class of professional politicians

776
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,960
who relied upon intellectuals like Socrates to rationalize their rule,

777
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,679
but neither of whom were capable of real action, and

778
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,440
both resented each other and both were afraid of an

779
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,960
hostile to the ya women warriors. So you're love of

780
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:09,519
this kind of like parallel paralysis where the men who

781
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:11,639
should be the ones like most capable of direct the

782
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:14,639
action and violence are declared that you know, this kind

783
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,679
of thing is illegal linear moral because they're terrified of

784
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,039
their own position being swept aside, and then they're on

785
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,599
like you know, lives being threatened by such a process.

786
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:27,480
So there's this kind of like ongoing paralysis where this

787
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,199
just kind of like meaningless discourse takes the place of action.

788
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,679
And yeah, like I said in the intro that you've

789
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,159
just reiterated, it's not a swelfout. Violence was so great

790
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:39,960
or like the sexy thing that we all got to

791
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,360
get into. He was saying that, you know, in political terms,

792
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,760
you're not serious unless you know you're willing to implement

793
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,039
your will through violence. And in fact, he took human

794
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,920
life and they're taking out very seriously. And that's one

795
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,280
of the reasons why there's something Sago saying about the

796
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,440
revolutionary process. If you're literally willing to kill people, even

797
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,079
if they're your enemies, maybe especially if you're enemies, Like,

798
00:44:02,679 --> 00:44:05,039
that's a very serious thing. You know, it's not something

799
00:44:05,039 --> 00:44:07,360
you do flippantly, and that's certainly not something you deal

800
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:13,199
with pettigouse agreements. And if you're willing to do that, uh,

801
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,440
there's a sacred aspect to that that commands a certain

802
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,599
reverential observance. I mean, it's it's all of those things.

803
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:28,519
But that's also why that's also and until things reach

804
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:33,440
that state, whether it's because you know, the like the

805
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,800
extens system is feeling structurally at such a point that

806
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,800
people find themselves in these just dire circumstances where there's

807
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:45,320
survivals and jeopardy, or when you're talking about, you know,

808
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,440
a revolutionary circumstance incident to you know, uh, a wire

809
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,920
kind of strategic pairing of warfare. You know what what

810
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,920
necessitates these things is is is a convergence of extreme

811
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,880
conditions and and the human will and the hardening of

812
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,440
the human heart within that will. So like when people

813
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,599
in America, like at present, I mean like likes talk

814
00:45:10,639 --> 00:45:13,159
about it like, oh, Donald Trump is an extremist or oh,

815
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,840
you know, we're we're under siege by by by quote Marxist,

816
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,360
You'll know. You'll know when that's underway, man, because the

817
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:24,000
bodies being dropped. And thankfully that's not happening because in

818
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:28,239
the Americans condition and then under present conditions, I don't

819
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,079
I don't think I would lead anything positive frankly, Okay,

820
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,039
I just don't. That may change, but for now, we

821
00:45:35,079 --> 00:45:37,199
would it would, it would, It would mean a lot

822
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,199
of suffering, and a lot of a lot of dead

823
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:44,719
people being stacked up for no real purpose. But yeah,

824
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,719
that's that's also and also like I don't want to

825
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,239
get too far afield, but this is intrinsic to anything

826
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,840
that European political theorists wrote about really till the twentieth century,

827
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:00,360
This idea, this kind of rollsy and live capital liberal

828
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,599
idea that people have in America kind of like on

829
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,639
all sides of the political are both sides of the

830
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:09,199
political spectrum of like, oh, politics are just as rational

831
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,239
process that people decided to create and implement, Like no

832
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,639
Europeans thought that way. Politics is mysterious and like the

833
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:22,079
zene of the political occurrences is warfare, and you know, politics,

834
00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:25,519
like warfare itself is its origin is mysterious. We don't

835
00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:27,599
really know why things are ordered this way, you know,

836
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:30,039
even if you don't believe in God, there's there's some

837
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:32,639
kind of they're they're there, there's some kind of design.

838
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,679
Even even even if it just man acting out, you know,

839
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,400
is is programming like as in as in an ant

840
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,760
colony would that's very mysterious and strange. We don't know

841
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,840
why that happens, you know, So all you can really

842
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,519
do is you're truly like in quite literal terms, like

843
00:46:50,559 --> 00:46:54,199
writing the peribial tiger to try and manage, you know,

844
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:59,039
political occurrences and in violence, they're in chooses us. We

845
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:03,960
don't really choose it. So there's an inherent uh kind

846
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,719
of providential uh, there's not an identificcasion of providential things

847
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,519
and phenomenon within the European mind. Conceptually said that that's

848
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:16,800
important to keep in mind. Like this really jumps out

849
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,719
at me, I think, because I mean, I'm very much

850
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,719
like a God centric person. I'm a Bible Protestant, but

851
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:26,239
I'm like an old stock American, so like I'm I'm

852
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,000
inundated with uh with uh with with kind of like

853
00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:32,760
American viewpoints and things, you know. And I always was

854
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:36,280
even guys like Russell Kirk, you know, who was a Catholic,

855
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:40,039
but he was kind of the quintessential like American like

856
00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:43,360
twentieth century political historian. Like even he like falls into

857
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,800
this kind of trap of of kind of like ralls

858
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,239
in and and and Hobbisian ontology about man kind of

859
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,119
like rationally choosing to like organize politics this way and

860
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,639
that's nonsense. And then maybe as a topic for another episode,

861
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,239
but yeah.

862
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,079
Speaker 1: I like that you mentioned and how Europeans view politics

863
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,480
versus Americans, especially back then, because and then earlier you

864
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:12,039
had mentioned how you know, people read Spengler and he

865
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:18,239
seem it seems esoteric. Because I recommended Imperium to somebody

866
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,840
and they started reading it and they're like this, does

867
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,719
it stay this esoteric? And then that's when you realize

868
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,679
it's like, well, politics isn't one thing we've been we've

869
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,440
been convinced, we've been taught in this country that politics

870
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,079
is just one thing, or it's it's this side against

871
00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:38,559
this side, and no, politics has a very spiritual side

872
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:40,119
to it. That's why I think a lot of people,

873
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,239
especially people who are Biblical, when they read Imperium and

874
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,199
they read part one, they're completely blown away because they've

875
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:49,039
never read politics like that before.

876
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, And Imperium's a really well

877
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,840
written book. It's not just because I like Francis Yacky

878
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,760
a lot. I mean, even before I even knew any

879
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,840
about frand of Yacky, like his book will always pop

880
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,000
up on AhR uh you know, I uhr newsletters and

881
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:06,320
what was Cardo obviously would always plug it and I

882
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,079
got it. There's a there was a used bookstore in

883
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:12,840
Evanston and like Noontime Press at that time, which was

884
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,159
Willis Carter's outfit, like they weren't currently stocking it. So

885
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,840
this was like in nineteen ninety seven or so, Like

886
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,519
I I I had this. I just I just used

887
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:23,679
bookstore in Emiston like order meal like an old hard

888
00:49:23,679 --> 00:49:25,639
copy of Imperium, and then I like took it home

889
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,920
and read it, and uh, I was like, wow, this

890
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,480
is really intense stuff and it's really insightful. So I

891
00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:33,639
mean I came to yacky by reading his book and

892
00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:38,079
realizing like this is this isn't this is incredibly you know,

893
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:42,440
highly developed and serious stuff. And yeah, I said, it's

894
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,119
just really well written. Some of Jacki's language at the

895
00:49:46,119 --> 00:49:49,039
time seems overwrought because uh, you know, he was a

896
00:49:49,079 --> 00:49:50,519
little he was he was he was he was a

897
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,360
he was a litigation attorney, and I mean that kind

898
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,679
of comes out, but uh, that's all. That's also as

899
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,239
part of like the time though, like in the early

900
00:49:58,679 --> 00:50:00,840
like really until like the nineteen fifties, that's just kind

901
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,559
of like the way people wrote, even kind of square

902
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:05,519
people just like you know, writing on behalf of some

903
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:09,039
kind of like even somebody like writing like a like

904
00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:10,800
an op ed on behalf of like eyes and how

905
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,159
we're in like the early fifties, like what it would

906
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:15,400
seem kind of like overwrought to us properly, like but

907
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:18,440
at the language I need. But but yeah, that's some

908
00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:22,239
you know, it's a it's a it's a serious book

909
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,760
like whether you know, even if you even if you're

910
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,920
basically kind of hostle to fishism or you know, postfishes ideas,

911
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,280
and even if you're not you know, any kind of

912
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,719
any kind of Germanic phile. I mean you can't like

913
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,559
like the people claim like imperiums like mystical garbage, like

914
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:40,320
none of them I've actually read the book. I know.

915
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:41,719
It's like I've engaged them, like, well, what do you

916
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,639
object to specifically? Like they can't tell you. There's like repeating,

917
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:48,039
there's like repeating some nonsense they like read online or

918
00:50:48,199 --> 00:50:51,519
they're just you know, it's just like some conceit they

919
00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:54,039
have that I guarantee you they have not actually read it.

920
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:59,360
I'm so great, maybe them like a bookworm I've actually read,

921
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,159
like I I've read Martian Angles for twenty years, like

922
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:06,360
when I I don't only sound off about a body

923
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,000
of political theory that I haven't read, and you'll notice,

924
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,440
like when you're raising them and read it till you're

925
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,639
right off, Like I haven't read that, but I don't

926
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,559
most people. Most people don't sit around like you know,

927
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,960
reading Dost Capital. Most people don't sit down and read

928
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:24,320
like all six hundred pages of Imperial They just don't.

929
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,639
Owing to the fact that everybody's got to live their

930
00:51:28,679 --> 00:51:30,360
life doing what they gotta do. I'm lucky to have

931
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,639
the time to like read this kind of shit. But

932
00:51:33,199 --> 00:51:34,800
it's also I mean people that I don't think people

933
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,760
with the attention span anymore, like even smart guys like I.

934
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,519
One of the things I learned to do in law school.

935
00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:43,639
If if I drive anything of value, that experience is

936
00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:45,679
like I can sit down for like nine hours and

937
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,039
like power through like pays and pays and pays a

938
00:51:48,119 --> 00:51:51,199
dense text. There's things that what's rather do than that?

939
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:53,639
But I can do it and like it doesn't you know,

940
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:56,480
it doesn't like it's not like torture to me. So yeah.

941
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: The part of the forward is under the title Modernist

942
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:07,039
violence and service of Ancient Virtues and something that I

943
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:11,800
A couple sections I gonna pick out here. He viewed

944
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,599
the organization, management, and economics of the homestead, and the

945
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:20,360
cultural values intrinsic to this enterprise as being inextricably linked

946
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:25,480
to and mutually reinforcing of military competence and endeavors and

947
00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:30,760
the waging of war itself. Moving down, he further views

948
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,000
the Yeoman Homestead as a school of command. A man

949
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,440
must rule his wife and children firmly, but also caringly

950
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,000
and justly. He must also demonstrate his worthiness to wield

951
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:44,360
his authority. A man's wife and children are obliged to

952
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:48,840
obey his commands, but only insofar as his command's command

953
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,360
role is tempered by correct virtues and practical reason. Do

954
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,400
you think that is why the founding of this country

955
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,400
actually worked in the beginning, In the beginning.

956
00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:03,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then like I said, it calls back to

957
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:07,880
tom If you read uh, if if you read what

958
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,880
these confederate like mental letters were writing about, I mean

959
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,480
that that's what that was their mythology. They were calling upon.

960
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:17,119
They were they were calling upon Athens. Okay, I mean

961
00:53:17,199 --> 00:53:19,920
like later, you know, you read everything from Walker Percy

962
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:24,159
to UH to Michael Sharah, you know, guy with the

963
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,000
Killer Angels you know, they they vote like our Thorian

964
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:29,480
legend and stuff. But I mean really, the way the

965
00:53:29,519 --> 00:53:32,199
southerns thought of themselves, it was like that, you know,

966
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,800
and and that's why, like you know, in terms of

967
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,800
like place names everything else, you know, like Athenian references

968
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,960
you know, were ubiquitous and the anti belle themself and

969
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:43,119
to some degree that still are in themself. And yeah,

970
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:45,440
that's the way they viewed it because again, the South

971
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:48,400
was not the South was not the Habsburg Empire. It

972
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,199
was it was it was, it was. It was a

973
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,400
ye woman reed who viewed themselves as kind of like

974
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,079
a monocast, you know, like that's why. And I mean

975
00:53:57,159 --> 00:54:01,119
part of that was possible because like, uh, slave was racialized,

976
00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:04,559
you know like that. But so I mean you dated

977
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:07,559
somebody's like a monocast, like even even like a poor

978
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,079
even like a poor like white like tenant farmer and

979
00:54:11,199 --> 00:54:13,519
like a lord in the manor, like they had some

980
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:16,599
kind of political interest in common, like cont for the slaves.

981
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,000
Now I know that, Like I know, people like Howard

982
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:21,079
Vinn would be like, oh, that's because they were just

983
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,119
educated and you know, racial prejudice, like that's not the case,

984
00:54:24,199 --> 00:54:28,519
Like they're at people do obviously identify in communitarian terms,

985
00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:31,800
like along racial and cultural lines, and that's only possible

986
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:35,719
that then that's really only possible if there is like

987
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,440
an US and them like paradigm. That's not good or bad,

988
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,079
it's just the way it is. And yeah, that's if

989
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:44,280
you and then North it was a little bit different.

990
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,119
But at the same time too, like I said, even

991
00:54:48,039 --> 00:54:51,320
you know, the uh, the the old right what was

992
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,880
called old right in the twentieth century, you know America

993
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,280
first and Robert Taft and stuff that those guys were.

994
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,920
Those guys were Hamiltonian Republic. They were like northern city slickers.

995
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:06,599
But at the same time, you know, they they viewed, uh,

996
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,360
they viewed the American ideal. You know, it's like the

997
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,119
small business man, like our version of the Kulak, you know,

998
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,440
like they so that I'm maintaining it's not just a

999
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,960
Confederate conceit that is truly like the old American ethos.

1000
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,840
And yeah, it's got no, it's got nothing. Uh you know,

1001
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,800
there is no Caesar in that equation. Okay, So it's

1002
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,239
you know, it's not there's no Caesar and there's not

1003
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,079
even a King Arthur. You know, there's a the the

1004
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:35,840
ideal like like the American hero, he's an archetype. He's

1005
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,960
not he's not a king or he's not like a

1006
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,320
man in a certain in a certain official role. So yeah,

1007
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,719
I think I think that's fundamentally important. And I mean

1008
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,800
that's the way I think, like not even consciously, like

1009
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,679
I you know, that's why I think some of these

1010
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:50,760
like trad guys in the internet are wro. It's like

1011
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,119
I'm not talking about like like actual like Russian guys.

1012
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,840
I'm not talking about you know some of these, uh,

1013
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:59,480
some of these Moslim guys who who are by that

1014
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,360
world I thought, I know, like guys from Terry Hood, Indiana,

1015
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:05,280
but like decide that they're like trade Catholics or something.

1016
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,280
It's like, bro, like what you want you want to

1017
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:08,719
like you know, you wanna you want to you want

1018
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,119
to you want to want to pretend it's you know,

1019
00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:12,920
we got a king here or something, or you want

1020
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:14,880
to pretend you're in the court of Caesar, Like why

1021
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,960
the fun would you want to do that? And plus,

1022
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,960
I mean it's not like our heritage anyway, you know,

1023
00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:20,760
Like that doesn't that doesn't work.

1024
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: People hate to hear this, but I mean we're a

1025
00:56:24,039 --> 00:56:26,320
Protestant country.

1026
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, I agree with you, Michael Joneses,

1027
00:56:30,679 --> 00:56:33,440
like if you are like, you know, culturally Catholic. I

1028
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,920
mean Jones is right, like America it wasn't as a

1029
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,400
massively anti Catholic country. And I don't think that's a

1030
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:44,000
good thing because I'm not a bigot, but that this

1031
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:48,239
idea you can like saw reconcile Americanism with Roman Catholicism

1032
00:56:48,559 --> 00:56:50,679
and just make the Pope some kind of like first

1033
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:53,119
deacon or some kind of like you know, or some

1034
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,280
kind of like equivalent of Billy Graham. Like that that's ridiculous,

1035
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,280
like that, that's that's not Catholicism. Then you know, you're

1036
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,559
just like some guy like like go with the math

1037
00:57:02,599 --> 00:57:06,960
occasionally and you know, uh, Christmas Eve at midnight, you know,

1038
00:57:07,079 --> 00:57:10,880
goes like a local perish. But that Catholics in man's

1039
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,119
actual implications for politics and authority and like the pope

1040
00:57:14,199 --> 00:57:16,679
is either that the pope's either the Emperor of Europe

1041
00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:19,119
in absolute terms or he's not. You know, I mean

1042
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:22,000
he's not he's not Billy Graham, He's not this, he's

1043
00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:23,880
not this deacon in a weird hat who like we

1044
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,199
all kind of listen to when we want to, you know,

1045
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,559
like he he has either God's emissary on earth or

1046
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:31,679
he's not. You know, in my fight, I'm not a Catholic,

1047
00:57:31,719 --> 00:57:34,400
but if you are, you can't. You can't be a

1048
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,239
Catholic and then decide to like you're going to like

1049
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,360
pretend Joe Biden as the president, you know, like.

1050
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,159
Speaker 1: I wanted to. I wanted to read this one section

1051
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:48,679
under anti modern modernism. He says, uh Sorel shared with

1052
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:53,159
Pradon and Hobbes a pessimistic view of nature. This is

1053
00:57:53,199 --> 00:57:56,440
one facet of Sorellian thought that fundamentally alters the way

1054
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,239
in which Sorel's relationship to socialism is to be understood.

1055
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,519
Cyrel viewed man as basically mired in sin and driven

1056
00:58:04,599 --> 00:58:07,760
by his own avarice and egoism and desire for his

1057
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,639
own gain. This tendency, in the Cirellian view, and this

1058
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:15,559
is the part I underlined, is only overcome by submission

1059
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:21,320
to sovereign authority customary as well as formal in ordinary conditions,

1060
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:27,400
and when necessary, by immersion in collectively dynamic and violent efforts,

1061
00:58:28,679 --> 00:58:37,199
often themselves both revolutionary and restorative in character. Sorel's commitment

1062
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,239
to socialism must be understood within this context that socialism,

1063
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,320
for better or worse, was considered a historic inevitability in

1064
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,519
structural terms, and if nothing else, it was at least

1065
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:53,840
grudgingly stipulated, even by many of its staunchest critics on

1066
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,960
the European right, that at least some concessions to the

1067
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,599
popular demands of socialist parties would need to be made

1068
00:59:00,679 --> 00:59:04,760
for any future government to enjoy the legitimacy it required

1069
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,079
to effectively rules.

1070
00:59:07,559 --> 00:59:10,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why, and that's how, and that explains

1071
00:59:10,559 --> 00:59:14,320
the ascendency of of of of the NSDAP and Adolf Hitler.

1072
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,360
I mean, Hitler was always more popular than the party,

1073
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:22,679
but eventually, you know, Hindenburg, U Hindenburg personally disliked Hitler,

1074
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,800
and I think him, I think Hindenburg personally disliked the

1075
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,400
National Socialists. But you know, again, it was the Stalhelm

1076
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,360
wasn't going anywhere for that for that reason that uh

1077
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,920
Currell outlined and that I just kind of like explicated

1078
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:43,000
in plain English, the uh you know this there's I

1079
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,840
realized that you know, in from the twentieth century onward,

1080
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:49,760
especially with the advident visual media, as well as you know,

1081
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:55,000
the concentration of power in in Key Loki and the

1082
00:59:55,039 --> 00:59:59,360
ability of consolidated governments to you know, to kind of

1083
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,679
dictate policy. You know, there's there's a power to kind

1084
01:00:02,679 --> 01:00:05,280
of create a conceptual horizon, you know, like the media

1085
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,119
like in the in the Oliver Stone movie Natural Learn Killers.

1086
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,239
You know, like what he Harrelton says. He says the

1087
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,719
reporter like media is like whether, but it's man made

1088
01:00:13,719 --> 01:00:17,400
whether like that that's actually really poignant, Okay, And like

1089
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,559
I stipulate that that's very true. At the same time,

1090
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,360
you can't just generate some kind of like revolutionary tendency

1091
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:25,639
out of the air or and he can't just quash

1092
01:00:25,719 --> 01:00:29,079
one that's emergent. So this idea that you know, I mean,

1093
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:31,400
I think Annolf Hiller believed everything he said, for better

1094
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,519
or worse, whether you think Hitler was great or what anything.

1095
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:35,480
He was evil, Like he wasn't a liar, and he

1096
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:38,119
wasn't he wasn't a politician in the conventional sense, Like

1097
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:41,079
he believed everything he said. He didn't take on like

1098
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:46,159
a socialist program like like Thaloman claimed and the KVD claim,

1099
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,119
you know, just for cynical reasons, like he believed in it,

1100
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,559
like even if you didn't, like, yeah, it was the reality.

1101
01:00:53,239 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: Was that he might be wrong, but he never lied.

1102
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the and the Vimart voter, the var voter

1103
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:02,280
at a social sensibility, like you could say that that

1104
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,199
was bad or that you didn't accept that. It's like

1105
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:07,719
well okay, but then you're not in the game, you know,

1106
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,519
So there's no there's no way to kind of like

1107
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:14,039
reactionary party or or some kind of like kaiser Reich

1108
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,880
ravancist party like what would have gone anywhere in Germany,

1109
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,280
Like you just wouldn't have you know. And and like

1110
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,280
I said, that wasn't just that was that wasn't just

1111
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:24,880
like the fervor of like you know, the kind of

1112
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:30,920
red wave after nineteen twenty one twenty two. It was

1113
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,719
that was like deeply insinuated into like the German consciousns

1114
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,920
you know, like the uh, this idea you know, like

1115
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:38,800
like we talked about that at the at the top

1116
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:44,079
of the hour, like the the you know, uh, socialism

1117
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:47,280
as we know it especially you know, came from it

1118
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:52,280
came from Prussia and and came from uh that that

1119
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:57,360
state of organization with yourself was derived from this desire

1120
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,440
and this fundamental imperative to kind of repair the social

1121
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,079
fabric that it ceased to exist after you know, the

1122
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:09,920
medieval era disappeared into into historical time. I gotta raise

1123
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,159
up in a minute, though, So let's we can we

1124
01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:15,880
can go part two on this if you want. But yeah, yeah,

1125
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:18,440
there's anything else you want to hit, just real quick though,

1126
01:02:18,639 --> 01:02:20,960
in terms of key points. So let's take those up now.

1127
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just do one one last question. Yeah, man,

1128
01:02:25,239 --> 01:02:27,639
do you think America has ever had a right wing

1129
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,960
and if they did, when did it disappear? Do they

1130
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:31,639
have a right wing?

1131
01:02:31,719 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: Now? Yeah, I'm gonna deal with the first part of

1132
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,960
the question. First, the War between the States, there was

1133
01:02:38,119 --> 01:02:40,679
there was something of a there was not conventionally right

1134
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,679
left paradigm to that, but it was the precursor of it. Okay.

1135
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:48,599
I mean there was guys in the North who were

1136
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,239
who were kind of nullifiers, who didn't really want to

1137
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,000
you know, in there, who were the free soilers. They

1138
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,800
didn't really want a part of the war between the States,

1139
01:02:56,119 --> 01:03:00,239
but they were highly racially conscious and highly anti government. Uh.

1140
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,519
But if you're talking about the actual partisans, you know,

1141
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:05,440
like the kind of like kind of the true like

1142
01:03:05,559 --> 01:03:08,280
rebels in the South, and uh, and you were talking

1143
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,159
about the fire years in the North, you like, and

1144
01:03:11,159 --> 01:03:15,599
and the the like the radical abolitionists, like there was

1145
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,000
there was something of a precursor to like right left

1146
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:23,639
divide in America. It's an imperfect analogy, but there's that later.

1147
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,599
I agree with basically when Patty Cannon wrote in the

1148
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:33,320
eighties and nineties about the old right being you know,

1149
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:38,079
the the Hamiltonian uh, Robert Taft right, the America first right,

1150
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,599
that was that that was the emergent American right in

1151
01:03:42,679 --> 01:03:47,360
modern terms, okay, and uh, you know in the in

1152
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,800
the in the you know, in the in the twentieth century,

1153
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,800
the words win the state wasn't ancient history. It was

1154
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,840
less than one hundred years in the past. Okay. So

1155
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,559
I mean the like America is like a consolidated uh

1156
01:04:00,039 --> 01:04:03,039
national union was was a pretty new thing. So there's

1157
01:04:03,079 --> 01:04:08,599
that too. The I believe, Uh, I'm always making the

1158
01:04:08,639 --> 01:04:11,920
point that you know, the Nuremberg system replacing the Westphalian

1159
01:04:12,039 --> 01:04:15,800
system that had not just profound implications for international order

1160
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:19,679
and more in peace and and and and the conceptual

1161
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:24,360
horizon of of of of heads of state, but it

1162
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,440
also uh, it made it made the political right quite

1163
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,280
literally illeal because that that that was part, that was

1164
01:04:30,559 --> 01:04:32,679
that was half of the reason for holding the Nuremberg

1165
01:04:32,719 --> 01:04:36,760
proceedings in the first place, is to say that you know, okay,

1166
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,840
like you know, the Allies were on the side of

1167
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,719
of providence and history and opposition to that which is

1168
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,519
the right wing. You know, this is a criminal conspiracy

1169
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:50,360
of racist murders, you know, and and and obviously you know,

1170
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,880
no no rational actors such as you know, the Marxist

1171
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,880
Leninists in Moscow and the New Years in Washington whatever

1172
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,679
started war. So wars were only started, you know, by

1173
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:04,599
the trigues and conspiracies of of breakings and criminals and races.

1174
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:06,920
And that's what the right wing is, you know. So

1175
01:05:07,119 --> 01:05:09,599
where it's it's it's illegal to hold these views because

1176
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:15,280
they result in genocide and warfare. That's why after that's

1177
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,760
why there was no like Hewing Long or Robert Taft

1178
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,519
after nineteen forty nine or forty eight forty nine, okay, like, uh,

1179
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,599
you the closest thing was a guy like Joe McCarthy.

1180
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:30,599
But obviously you know, there were there were the uh

1181
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,199
the deep state closed ranks to wipe him out. And

1182
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:36,920
I'm that said McCarthy was like a great guy. I mean,

1183
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:38,480
I'm not saying morally, I mean, I don't think he was.

1184
01:05:38,639 --> 01:05:39,840
I think it was kind of a bumpkin. I don't

1185
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,079
think he was a great figure hit and I've got

1186
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:44,960
my own issues with him. But certainly the name was

1187
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,679
Roy Cohne didn't do any favors but the for all

1188
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,519
kinds of reasons, but that are Cold War series. But

1189
01:05:51,599 --> 01:05:55,000
the but that was that was basically the American right

1190
01:05:55,039 --> 01:05:57,000
as it was as it was Acipha and you know,

1191
01:05:57,119 --> 01:06:01,760
hewing long Robert Taft Wallace was a resurgence of that,

1192
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:04,960
you know, And and of course Nixon took on the

1193
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,239
Wallace Coalition, which became the Reagan Coalition, which became Mega.

1194
01:06:10,159 --> 01:06:13,360
That's right wing in the American sense. I mean, I

1195
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,920
I think it's somewhat of a protest movement. But at

1196
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,000
the if those people had better leadership, and if they

1197
01:06:20,039 --> 01:06:23,440
had UH and if they had a stronger intellectual foundation,

1198
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:28,840
I think they'd very much like identify with Taffian principles,

1199
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:32,119
like actual America First principles. So yeah, I mean, I

1200
01:06:32,159 --> 01:06:36,679
think I think that's basically genuine. I I think there's

1201
01:06:36,679 --> 01:06:39,840
a lot of silly stuff like within I mean, if

1202
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:41,639
we can still consider like MEGA to be a movement

1203
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,000
like the you know, the I was on the ground

1204
01:06:44,039 --> 01:06:46,639
in January sixth, And I'm not saying that to sound

1205
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:49,840
like I mean like figure that one killer and not

1206
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,039
trying to come off like Rodoni Junior's characters that you know,

1207
01:06:52,199 --> 01:06:54,199
like I was there when the ship went down at Gretade.

1208
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,400
I was there. I'm not trying to come off like that.

1209
01:06:58,639 --> 01:07:00,719
But like I raised that a lot because like people

1210
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,679
say all kinds of crazy stuff about January sixth, and

1211
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:05,679
like when I tell them like they're wrong, and it well,

1212
01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:07,280
how do you know? It's like, well because I was there,

1213
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:13,039
fucker like that's how But and and those people were gutsy.

1214
01:07:13,159 --> 01:07:15,280
I think a lot of them for like turning out

1215
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,559
in depth, you know, to exhibit their discontent, which was

1216
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:21,719
entirely well placed. But there's also just like a lot

1217
01:07:21,719 --> 01:07:24,159
of like fucking real goofs man and like guys doing

1218
01:07:24,239 --> 01:07:27,840
dumb shit, you know, like like that freaking weirdo like

1219
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,719
oupainting himself up like brave Heart, like running around like

1220
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:32,559
like an idiot. Like I saw a lot of like

1221
01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:35,719
that kind of shit, and there's like goofy stuff like

1222
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,719
that that you know, like on the MAGA, right, So

1223
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:41,360
I mean there's like more than like a seed of

1224
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,840
potential and they are in some real way like the

1225
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,239
airrors to like you know, the Taff Hamiltonian and later

1226
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,119
like the you know, the Wallace, Nixon Reagan uh coalition.

1227
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,360
But it's problematic because like America is problematic in terms

1228
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,280
of how colitics break down. I mean, that's my view

1229
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,599
of it. I'm not I'm not saying bad I'm not

1230
01:08:02,639 --> 01:08:05,000
trashing mega people like I mean, most of my friends

1231
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:08,039
are our constitute or people like that. You know, I'm not.

1232
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,039
I'm not some snob. I mean, how can I be.

1233
01:08:11,199 --> 01:08:12,559
So I don't want people to think I'm like saying

1234
01:08:12,639 --> 01:08:16,279
new things about them but them. But yeah, uh that's

1235
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:18,159
my view and at a.

1236
01:08:18,159 --> 01:08:21,399
Speaker 1: Glance, and you need to get out of here, do

1237
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:22,920
plugs real quick and we'll do that.

1238
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Pete. You can find me on Twitter

1239
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:32,399
at Chriskellian jahad. Uh. The T is a number seven.

1240
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:34,439
But if if I think, if you serve for Thomas

1241
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:39,079
seven seven seven, I come up. I I got kicked

1242
01:08:39,119 --> 01:08:42,760
off at t RAND for criticizing Uh, mister Zolensky, which

1243
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,960
is interesting. On t gram there's guys that literally post

1244
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:48,840
like really gross like pornography and like pictures of dead people,

1245
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,560
like really awful stuff. I don't sounds like some fucking

1246
01:08:52,119 --> 01:08:53,960
shrinking violet, but I mean I find that kind of

1247
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,560
stuff upset it, you know, and like I but so

1248
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,119
that's okay, but like you trash like Lensky, like you

1249
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:02,760
get like moved. So I mean, hey, it's it's neither

1250
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,159
here or there. We don't need t gramm anymore because

1251
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:10,199
the centenship regime is is has been broken in some way,

1252
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:12,239
like enough at least that we can get our message out.

1253
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,880
But so I'm not on t gram anymore. But in

1254
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,359
my substack it's real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack

1255
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:22,039
dot com. There's a chat in there, and if you're

1256
01:09:22,039 --> 01:09:23,960
a subscriber, like you don't need to pay, but you

1257
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,640
do need to subscribe to access to chat. And like

1258
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,880
that's like where we've been congregating. And you can always

1259
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:31,680
like hit me up on email if you want to

1260
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,079
talk to me direct. It might take me a week

1261
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:36,560
or two reply just because I get a lot of email.

1262
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,600
It's zartex z e r t a X seven seven

1263
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:45,079
seven at ProtonMail dot com. And yeah, that's that's all

1264
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:45,399
I got.

1265
01:09:46,119 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate your time. Thanks a lot. Man.

1266
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 2: Likewise, man, this is great. Thank you. One.

1267
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:57,039
Speaker 1: Back to the Pin Show, returning for part two on

1268
01:09:57,199 --> 01:10:01,000
George Sorell. It's Thomas seven seven seven. How are you done, sir?

1269
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,039
Speaker 2: I'm very well, thanks man, And all I got indicated

1270
01:10:05,039 --> 01:10:10,159
before we went live. There's been an overwhelmingly positive response

1271
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:14,520
to covering Sorel and then our first episode on Sorell.

1272
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,079
I mean, and that's that's fantastic, Not because it gives

1273
01:10:18,119 --> 01:10:20,640
my ego a boost, although frankly it kind of does,

1274
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,000
and I'm not ashamed to say that, but the fact

1275
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:27,640
that people are engaging with Sorel in a meaningful way

1276
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:33,359
is great. It's essential to understanding the twentieth century and

1277
01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:37,960
the trajectory of the political right and and how European

1278
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:43,479
the political culture developed in fundamental ways, and you know,

1279
01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:45,960
more and more of what we do. I mean, it's

1280
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,880
important to educate our people in our faction, as it

1281
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,760
were anyway, but you know, mein Shamagademia just is not

1282
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,520
taking these things up. The exception is guys like Paul

1283
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,199
Gotfried but I mean he's really on his own, you know.

1284
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:01,239
I mean, I mean, I was Godfrey, you know, one

1285
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:04,840
of us uh Rick large. But he is a serious

1286
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:11,000
political theorist. But he's you know, he's he's found a

1287
01:11:11,079 --> 01:11:15,920
niche audience, kind of like Michael Jones says. But you

1288
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,760
know that my point being that what what we're doing

1289
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:25,600
is really kind of filled uh uh phi satisfying a demand,

1290
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:27,399
you know, and the fact that demand exists in the

1291
01:11:27,399 --> 01:11:30,840
first place, it is a very positive tendency because that

1292
01:11:31,079 --> 01:11:34,439
was not the case twenty years ago. But yeah, we

1293
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:38,680
we can dive in. We can dive in immediately. Man.

1294
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,279
Speaker 1: All right, well, yeah, here's something to start out with.

1295
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,279
What did what did cREL consider himself? You're you know,

1296
01:11:47,359 --> 01:11:51,359
you read this and definitely brings up syndicalism a lot, definitely,

1297
01:11:52,159 --> 01:11:54,680
And also we know that he changed his mind on

1298
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,800
some things as uh as his life progress. So when

1299
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:01,720
you read Sorell, when you read Reflections on Violence, what

1300
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:06,760
is he how how do you see the framework with

1301
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:08,720
that he's personally writing it in?

1302
01:12:09,159 --> 01:12:12,119
Speaker 2: What I think of And that's that's that's a great question.

1303
01:12:12,279 --> 01:12:14,479
What I think of Cyrel personally, I think is a

1304
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,760
pure I think he was a pure political theorist in

1305
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:18,760
a lot of ways, and that's one of the reasons.

1306
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,000
That's one of the things that distinguishes them from mars

1307
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,960
I mean, obviously he was ideological sympathies and his esthetic

1308
01:12:25,039 --> 01:12:27,920
tendencies were totally to odds with Marxism. But you know,

1309
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,279
like we talked about before, you know, Marx had these

1310
01:12:30,359 --> 01:12:34,359
pretensions Marsian angles both an equal measures. They had these

1311
01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:37,640
pretensions to science, you know, or this idea that you know.

1312
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,880
They were they were you know, they were they were

1313
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,960
positing theories of economics, and nothing of the story was underway.

1314
01:12:44,039 --> 01:12:46,720
That's not my own conceptual bias, Like there is no

1315
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:52,960
Marxist economics. There's a Marxist sociology. And yeah, it posits uh,

1316
01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:58,760
you know, values and and and uh and observations about

1317
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,479
you know, the human condition and how and obviously, I

1318
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,039
mean that's selling a fundamentally concerned with particularly man and

1319
01:13:04,079 --> 01:13:06,640
his relationship his on labor. But that's that's not a

1320
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,000
theory of economics, you know, it's a it's kind of

1321
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:14,159
it's kind of political sociology that it places a premium

1322
01:13:14,199 --> 01:13:18,640
on on man as an economic actor. Uh, both severally

1323
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,880
and collectively as it is kind of like his primary

1324
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:26,239
is his primary kind of function as historically as well

1325
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:31,079
as Andrew pot But that's not that's that's not economic science, okay.

1326
01:13:31,119 --> 01:13:37,600
And but Sorell I Mesuela is very clear that he

1327
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,560
was he was dealing in pure political theory. Okay. He

1328
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:45,199
was talking about value creation. He's talking about animates people,

1329
01:13:47,239 --> 01:13:52,520
you know, to to to create political cultures, and you know,

1330
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:57,000
and and and and to live historically, you know, and uh,

1331
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,199
you know fundamentally conserned the questions of identity with esthetic

1332
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:08,479
with value judgments kind of rendered by aesthetical tendencies, you know,

1333
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,800
uh the things uh you know kind of the kind

1334
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:15,960
of kind of distilled down, uh as into human values,

1335
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,399
you know, things like heroism and like what is heroism

1336
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,840
and in the political realm and things like that. You know.

1337
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,560
That's why the seminal text of Sorel if you want

1338
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,800
to understand this point I'm trying to make, and forgive

1339
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,279
me if I'm being up, the skater shot is, you know,

1340
01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:33,119
with Sorell's essay on the Trial of Socrates and why

1341
01:14:33,239 --> 01:14:37,239
Socrates deserve not only deserve to be executed and in

1342
01:14:37,319 --> 01:14:40,680
absolute moral terms, but he was imperative and political terms,

1343
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:46,119
because people at Socrates had brought horrible damage to Athens,

1344
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:48,920
you know, and and and really kind of destroyed the

1345
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:51,399
legacy of Paraples, as it were. And that's why that's

1346
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:58,039
why Sorell's favorite, uh, Sorell's favorite the pre Socratic thinker

1347
01:14:58,119 --> 01:15:01,359
is Xenophon. I'm not that's a really complicated issue, and

1348
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:03,880
I'm not a guy who was an expert in the classics,

1349
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:09,720
but that you know that that's fundamentally important. I'm just

1350
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,880
for our purposes we're talking about here, it's it's premium,

1351
01:15:13,159 --> 01:15:16,520
it's prem efficient evidence that Currell did not pretend that

1352
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,279
he was you know, that he was that that he

1353
01:15:19,359 --> 01:15:22,000
was presenting some like new science of economics, and he

1354
01:15:22,079 --> 01:15:24,880
was not pretending that you know, he he was like

1355
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,560
the air to some kind of rationalist socialism that uh

1356
01:15:29,039 --> 01:15:31,920
was an improvement upon Merks or something like. He He

1357
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:33,760
was a very he was in a very real sense

1358
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:38,319
philosophizing with a hammer, uh. And frankly, he was concerned

1359
01:15:38,319 --> 01:15:41,319
with a lot of the same with a lot of

1360
01:15:41,359 --> 01:15:44,960
the same phenomenon that Nietzsche was. But he was far

1361
01:15:45,039 --> 01:15:49,600
more of a practical, uh, political theorist about it. And

1362
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,880
he was driving different conclusions that had superficially sort of

1363
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:58,720
similar uh the futures, if that makes sense. But I

1364
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,359
draw the distinction or I make the comparison not accidentally

1365
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,560
or or or not because I'm trying to be funny.

1366
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,239
But like the other day online, like I was a

1367
01:16:09,359 --> 01:16:11,479
bar of people who were mad at me because they

1368
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,520
thought that I was putting shade on and they're kind

1369
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,359
of nichean sensibilities and that's not really what I was doing.

1370
01:16:19,199 --> 01:16:22,479
But people like us, I feel, can read wherever they want, okay,

1371
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:24,680
and I'm not I'm not like the grand like Bury

1372
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:29,279
and of philosophy or something, just kind of authority they

1373
01:16:29,359 --> 01:16:31,720
like tell people like like, hey man, you should like

1374
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:35,680
read this, but not that. But you know when people

1375
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:38,239
do approach me and say they're interest didn't understanding you know,

1376
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,800
the twentieth century, and they tell me that their interest

1377
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:45,079
didn't understanding, you know, uh, developing kind of like a

1378
01:16:45,119 --> 01:16:49,199
practical paradigm of political action. You know, you should be

1379
01:16:49,239 --> 01:16:51,520
reading stuff like cREL a lot more than you should

1380
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,720
be you know, sitting around reading. You know, there's arthustru

1381
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,439
and you know, genealogy and worlds and things like that.

1382
01:16:59,239 --> 01:17:02,399
But they you know, I and I try and steer people.

1383
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:04,159
I mean, even even if people are just kind of

1384
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:06,600
like died in the wool intellectuals. I mean, it's great, okay,

1385
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,000
I mean, there's nothing at all wrong with it as

1386
01:17:09,039 --> 01:17:12,600
long as its tempered by a kind of pragmatic grounding

1387
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:16,479
in the world, and it's not some kind of you know,

1388
01:17:17,079 --> 01:17:20,800
it's not some kind of psychological coping mechanism of retreat.

1389
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:26,800
But the uh if if one of the things that

1390
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,600
people that caused people that gravitated towards thinkers like Nietzsche,

1391
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,520
and there's some degree Heidegger, although they were very different,

1392
01:17:33,279 --> 01:17:35,319
is uh you know, there was there was there was

1393
01:17:35,319 --> 01:17:39,359
a real historical crisis that that reached the zenith you

1394
01:17:39,399 --> 01:17:44,880
know in in uh in in in elite modernity, you know,

1395
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:48,079
the mid really really the mid nineteenth century, just when

1396
01:17:48,079 --> 01:17:52,319
they started to impact like regular people's individual lives, you know,

1397
01:17:52,359 --> 01:17:55,479
and obviously it reached a horrible zenith in the twentieth century.

1398
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:56,840
I mean, I don't I don't see that for the

1399
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:00,319
reasons what court of storians do. Obviously, as I mean

1400
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,760
I drew I drived that observation for radically different reasons.

1401
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:08,079
But you know, this can't be denied. And I try

1402
01:18:08,079 --> 01:18:11,319
and expand people's conceptual horizons and make them see that,

1403
01:18:11,399 --> 01:18:15,119
like what Mitra was not the only uh andoth very

1404
01:18:15,119 --> 01:18:18,880
powerful language that really resonates with with people, especially especially

1405
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,880
younger guys. Which is fine, young guys have great energy

1406
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:27,399
that we need. But I try and help steer people

1407
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,479
the fact that you know, he was not the only

1408
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,840
thinker concerned with these things. There was many others who were,

1409
01:18:34,279 --> 01:18:36,560
and there's many on the right who were, And there

1410
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:44,439
was many who whose ideas and and philosophy's held a

1411
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:48,720
far more kind of relevant trying to go relevance to

1412
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,920
you know, the the current dilemma. And so that's kind

1413
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:54,439
where Sorell comes in. But I he was I look

1414
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:57,279
at Sir as a pure political theorist and a uh

1415
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,399
and and a political sociologist were at large, and he

1416
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:04,479
was fundamentally concerned with the economic But you know that's

1417
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,680
everybody was. You know, like the Zeit guys do exist

1418
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:10,199
in is like the Zeit guys do exist in. You know,

1419
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,560
you've got to you've got to, like a whether you

1420
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,920
want to or not, you've got to abide the the

1421
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:19,560
epoch in which you're situated and the kind of conceptual

1422
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:24,600
realities that are paramount, you know, and his guys is

1423
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,319
a real thing. You know. You don't have to be

1424
01:19:26,319 --> 01:19:27,760
a gaily End or you don't have to believe in

1425
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:31,079
God if, but you can't deny that, like the Zeitgeist

1426
01:19:31,119 --> 01:19:33,079
is a real thing. I mean maybe you maybe you

1427
01:19:33,079 --> 01:19:35,199
come at it as like, well, you know, it's just

1428
01:19:35,279 --> 01:19:38,079
kind of a you know, it's just like a functional

1429
01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:42,039
mass psychology or whatever or you know people or or

1430
01:19:42,119 --> 01:19:46,880
like you're like epigenetic memory come uh, basic structures of mind.

1431
01:19:47,159 --> 01:19:49,079
It's like, okay, it doesn't matter for our purpose. It

1432
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:52,119
is like what causes the Zeitgeist to emerge. But it

1433
01:19:52,199 --> 01:19:56,359
is a real thing, you know, and like what's possible

1434
01:19:56,680 --> 01:20:01,439
politically is very much bounded like pen by those parameters.

1435
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,760
You know. That's why lately, uh, I mean my big

1436
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:11,239
project right now is uh is is uh, you know,

1437
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,399
making progress on the Nermer with transcript and that that's

1438
01:20:14,399 --> 01:20:17,479
preceding at taste, But I want to write about the

1439
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,279
d d R and uh the radical German left post

1440
01:20:21,359 --> 01:20:24,479
nineteen forty five and things like the botder mindhoff Gang

1441
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,000
you know, more more globally onto the Red Army faction,

1442
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,159
you know, like a lot of these people. And I

1443
01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:31,439
realized this is a tangent, but I'll bring it back.

1444
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,119
I'm going to start with this. This is topable. A

1445
01:20:34,159 --> 01:20:37,079
lot of the people who are involved with it, they

1446
01:20:37,119 --> 01:20:40,560
weren't first of all, like versusly. None of them were

1447
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,600
relacure minorities like they They were very much like German

1448
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:46,600
boys and girls, okay, And they were attracted to this

1449
01:20:47,119 --> 01:20:50,560
really because that's what was possible within with you know,

1450
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,760
within the conceptual parameters of the Cold War, you know.

1451
01:20:54,039 --> 01:20:59,399
And interestingly Horsechmahler, who was uh, you know, a self

1452
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:05,760
identified you know, stalotist radical who who became a lawyer

1453
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,279
and he defended a lot of the boder Minehoff people

1454
01:21:08,319 --> 01:21:12,319
in court. You know. He after the after the Berlin

1455
01:21:12,319 --> 01:21:14,960
Wall came down, he joined he joined the NPD and

1456
01:21:15,039 --> 01:21:17,640
he was actually arrested in prison for quote Holocaust and

1457
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,479
island things. I mean, so he basically and some people

1458
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:22,600
were like, oh, what is synic this man is? I say, no,

1459
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,439
I think there was always what his sympathies were. But

1460
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:28,039
you know, he was a German guy from the east

1461
01:21:28,039 --> 01:21:30,079
who was you know, born in nineteen forties, Like what

1462
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:32,039
was he like, what was he gonna do like march

1463
01:21:32,079 --> 01:21:34,439
around like horse or vessel? Was he gonna you know,

1464
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,199
was he gonna try to organize like a march on

1465
01:21:37,279 --> 01:21:40,399
Rome in nineteen sixty? I mean, it's not that that's

1466
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:45,000
not the way the world was, you know, and it uh,

1467
01:21:45,239 --> 01:21:47,239
and it's not just it's not just a matter of

1468
01:21:47,239 --> 01:21:51,760
of practical potentialities. It's also I mean just what what

1469
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:56,319
what speaks to people? Like what guys uh, potentialities within

1470
01:21:56,359 --> 01:21:59,760
the political realm emerged, you know, so I I want

1471
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:03,119
to more about this, you know. And there's also and

1472
01:22:03,279 --> 01:22:05,039
that's one of the reasons too, I'm interested in guys

1473
01:22:05,039 --> 01:22:07,399
like Johann von Leirds. I mean, I'm interested in Islam

1474
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,680
for and it's impact on the political for all kinds

1475
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:15,680
of reasons. But guys like him and guys like I'm

1476
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:19,159
at Hubert, it was like the same kind of thing, okay,

1477
01:22:19,279 --> 01:22:22,319
Like they were kind of unusual people and you know,

1478
01:22:22,399 --> 01:22:27,840
kind of like orientalist adventurer types, but they they very much.

1479
01:22:28,199 --> 01:22:30,800
I mean, I'm not gonna claim to know like what

1480
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:33,520
I mean, I've never leave the Christian faith, okay, but

1481
01:22:34,039 --> 01:22:36,560
I I can't. I can only speculate, and like what

1482
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:40,279
motivates people to convert to like what a very alien religions?

1483
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,680
I mean, for all, I know this was very genuine

1484
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,760
and some kind of spiritual uh calling. But I also

1485
01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:50,800
there's a negatively political aspect in the case of people

1486
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,680
like von Leers and Mahler and that oh what I

1487
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,920
just said. The Zeit guy said, the questions of you know,

1488
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:03,760
what what what is? Uh? What? What was possible? You know,

1489
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:07,239
within within the conceptual parameters of of the e F

1490
01:23:07,279 --> 01:23:09,920
I I much was situated. I know that was long winded,

1491
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:13,760
but it's it's it's frankly a big question. But yeah,

1492
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,239
that's that's that's that's not that's how I characterized Sorel.

1493
01:23:17,319 --> 01:23:20,479
That's why I believe he's there's an enduring relevance there.

1494
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:25,680
It's SAE for Werner Sombart. Uh And well, if you

1495
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,880
want to, we'll do a episode on Werner Sombart. You know,

1496
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:30,760
he was he was kind of like the other like

1497
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:34,560
socialist of the right, and he was German obviously, and

1498
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,439
he wrote specific America and why socialism is not resonant

1499
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:43,239
in America, which is fascinating and timely with It's that's

1500
01:23:44,199 --> 01:23:47,600
that's my not so brief answer to the question as

1501
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:52,159
to how I characterized Sorel or categorize him.

1502
01:23:52,199 --> 01:23:55,600
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm glad you brought up the zite Geist, because

1503
01:23:55,880 --> 01:24:02,000
I think that operating in the Zeitgeist, when your thought

1504
01:24:02,279 --> 01:24:08,840
is firmly planted within the Zeitgeist, you can make you

1505
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:13,920
either make very realistic decisions or in my case, in

1506
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:19,239
the past, you have very fanciful decisions. And I want

1507
01:24:19,239 --> 01:24:22,680
to read this passage right here, and it points to

1508
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:24,880
a lot of what I was talking about. And this

1509
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:30,479
is in part three of the chapter Prejudices against Violence.

1510
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:34,640
I just want to read this chapter. It says the

1511
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:37,560
army is the clearest and most tangible of all possible

1512
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,680
manifestations of the state, and the one which is most

1513
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:45,560
firmly connected with its origins and traditions. Syndicalists do not

1514
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,479
propose to reform the state as the men of the

1515
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:52,479
eighteenth century did. They want to destroy it because they

1516
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,760
wish to realize the idea of marxis that the socialist

1517
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:59,239
revolution ought not to culminate in the replacement of one

1518
01:24:59,279 --> 01:25:03,520
governing monarch already by another minority. The syndicalists outline their

1519
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,560
doctrines still more clearly when they give it a more

1520
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:12,760
ideological aspect and declare themselves anti patriotic, following the example

1521
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,399
of the Communist Manifesto. He actually goes on to say,

1522
01:25:17,039 --> 01:25:20,319
it is impossible that there should be the slightest understanding

1523
01:25:20,399 --> 01:25:24,720
between syndicalists and official socialists on this question. The latter,

1524
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:29,600
of course, talking about official socialists speak of breaking up everything,

1525
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:34,319
but they attack men in power rather than power itself.

1526
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:38,079
They hope to possess the state forces, and they are

1527
01:25:38,079 --> 01:25:41,279
aware that on the day when they control the government

1528
01:25:41,319 --> 01:25:44,039
they will have need of an army, they will carry

1529
01:25:44,039 --> 01:25:48,319
on foreign politics, and consequently they, in their turn, will

1530
01:25:48,359 --> 01:25:51,880
have to praise the feeling of devotion to the fatherland.

1531
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,680
The reason I brought I chose that passage is because

1532
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,920
it's very easy. I know a lot of the people

1533
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:04,520
in my orbit are anarchists. A lot of them call

1534
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:10,199
themselves right wing anarchists. And it seems to me that

1535
01:26:10,319 --> 01:26:14,479
the reason that anarchy can seem very appealing to a

1536
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:18,800
lot of people is because they don't see an answer

1537
01:26:19,159 --> 01:26:25,479
in the zeitgeist for their morality what they believe. And

1538
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,680
another thing something that I wrote is it seems that

1539
01:26:29,359 --> 01:26:34,840
moral superiority when you have no solution to present dilemmas

1540
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:41,720
leads you to become somebody who politics becomes all about morality,

1541
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:46,279
because it's very easy to win a political argument if

1542
01:26:46,319 --> 01:26:50,800
you just say, well, all war is immoral, all taxation

1543
01:26:51,079 --> 01:26:57,039
is immoral, everything is immoral when you have no when

1544
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:02,039
there is no vision that you can see of overthrowing

1545
01:27:02,159 --> 01:27:07,880
what is in power now where it seems like these anarchists,

1546
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:14,079
and I'm including my former self are no different than

1547
01:27:14,119 --> 01:27:17,319
these syndicalists who just want to destroy everything and will

1548
01:27:17,319 --> 01:27:22,399
even resort to anti patriotism and saying that power it

1549
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:29,560
is possible to destroy power when you're basically moralizing against

1550
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:33,159
the site geist you know that exists.

1551
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:37,479
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and I think in America there's a conceptual

1552
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:41,479
problem here too. The reason why you know, the anarchists

1553
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:45,840
who did crazy stuff like attacking the UH the Chicago

1554
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:51,159
Federal Building and it's like literally blowing it up, and

1555
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:54,000
these these guys like Sacho and many like is Italian

1556
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,720
anarchists suit your point, we're very much like in in

1557
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,479
bed with cyndical is, you know, like like perceptually in

1558
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:06,479
Europe that had that was kind of like anarchism like

1559
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:11,600
had within conceptual vocabulary of European socialism, like anarchism made

1560
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,880
sense even that, even if it was not a good idea.

1561
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:19,199
In America, I think there are like anarchists in America

1562
01:28:19,239 --> 01:28:23,399
who actually like I think that. I think I think

1563
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:26,920
they're to your point in doublging and flights of fantasy,

1564
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:30,600
but they do have a pretty deep understanding of h

1565
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:36,079
of H of the source material. But I think most

1566
01:28:36,079 --> 01:28:38,560
people in America grantate towards it. Like when they think

1567
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,279
of anarchism, they're not really thinking of anarchism per se.

1568
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:47,560
They're thinking of kind of like a Habizian ontology of oh, well, naturally,

1569
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,079
there's no there's no course of authority, you know, uh,

1570
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:53,520
And all we need to do is, you know, kind

1571
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:56,640
of overcome this tendency to exploit others and you know

1572
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:00,600
that the state of nature has no government, which is

1573
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:07,439
nonsense and also too if people kind of associate all

1574
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:12,479
authority with like this, you know, new dealer, uh, bureaucracy

1575
01:29:13,239 --> 01:29:16,920
committed to social engineering and all kinds of and and

1576
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,279
all kinds of in all kinds of tyrannies like prosaic

1577
01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:23,800
and profound like screw with people vibes, you know, individually

1578
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:28,079
as well as collectively, culturally, socially and everything else. Like

1579
01:29:28,119 --> 01:29:31,000
it's not some people develop this binary tendency. They don't

1580
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:36,000
realize that there's various iterations of government, and like government

1581
01:29:36,079 --> 01:29:39,600
quad government doesn't just like equate to you know what

1582
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,960
this like obsolete like cold world of Iathan that we're

1583
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:48,119
kind of stuck with in America. You know, I governments

1584
01:29:48,159 --> 01:29:50,439
neither good or bad like on its face, you know,

1585
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:52,520
I mean it's I'm always making the point of people that,

1586
01:29:53,399 --> 01:29:56,399
you know, because uh like a lot of people know

1587
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:59,239
that I you know, I identify a lot with you know,

1588
01:29:59,319 --> 01:30:04,199
Confederate here and stuff, you know, for for cultural and

1589
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:07,800
theological and like racial reasons, but as well as you know,

1590
01:30:08,199 --> 01:30:10,159
historical ones. And they're like, well, how can you also

1591
01:30:10,239 --> 01:30:13,039
like admire the Prussian state. It's like because there's a

1592
01:30:13,039 --> 01:30:16,399
commonality there and that you know, the regime that came

1593
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:20,880
into existence was appropriate for the people within its dominion

1594
01:30:21,359 --> 01:30:25,159
as well as you know, the political challenges that were extants.

1595
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,239
You know it, uh like the Prussian regime was appropriate

1596
01:30:28,319 --> 01:30:32,800
for Prussia, like you know the Confederate Yaloemen re you know,

1597
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:35,680
truly we're kind of like self governing and in a

1598
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:38,520
classical sense. So it's as much as that was possible

1599
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:40,960
you know in the in the nineteenth century. I mean

1600
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:43,079
that was appropriate for them. You know. It's not like

1601
01:30:43,119 --> 01:30:45,760
there's like one like it. It's not it's not just

1602
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,840
like one modality a government that is appropriate. There's categorically wrong.

1603
01:30:50,079 --> 01:30:53,279
I mean obviously there's something. There's there's some there there's

1604
01:30:53,279 --> 01:30:56,520
some configurations of government that are just absolutely like terrible, okay,

1605
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:59,319
Like I mean there's something like weird Internet guy. Like

1606
01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:02,239
no nobody was say that, like you know, democratic campu

1607
01:31:02,359 --> 01:31:07,920
Chia like like a great regime, you know, like something,

1608
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:11,600
but you know, the yeah, people can just make it

1609
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:15,399
like categorically sweeping judgments like the The problem with regimes

1610
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:18,439
like that in America and like that which has been

1611
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:22,880
imposed on Western Europe is that it's it's I compare

1612
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:24,399
it to like you know, you know, like the old

1613
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:26,760
Ray Bradbury story Faaraaneck for fifty one, like when I

1614
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:28,800
was in high school, Like people still like read that,

1615
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:32,960
like he to sign it, and you know, have like

1616
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:35,399
the fire department and fair n forty one. Their guys

1617
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:37,560
actually go out and start fires. Like the US government

1618
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:40,159
is like a fire department that starts fires because like

1619
01:31:40,359 --> 01:31:42,760
governmental dres its legitimacy from the degree to which it

1620
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:47,279
guarantees the posterity like the people in their culture and

1621
01:31:47,279 --> 01:31:50,880
and the government is quite literally working to annihilate those things.

1622
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,520
And that that's that's it's beyond like a dysfunctional government.

1623
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:57,199
That's it's abjectly perverse. You know, it's a it's a

1624
01:31:57,319 --> 01:32:00,560
cross purposes with the raison detro of a government. I

1625
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,159
mean that that's that's really what brought down the Soviet system,

1626
01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:06,800
you know, I mean, yeah, there was the planned economy

1627
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:09,720
doesn't work. You know, you can't, you can't. You can't

1628
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:13,800
abolish the incentive for creativity. We're large, and they just

1629
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:15,920
say like, well, we're gonna you know, we're just gonna

1630
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:18,800
plan all like economic activity and all. And you can't

1631
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:22,239
like plan spontaneous innovation. Okay, that's ridiculous, you know, and

1632
01:32:22,319 --> 01:32:26,239
obviously like it didn't. It didn't. It didn't deliver anything

1633
01:32:26,279 --> 01:32:28,520
of of of real value to people. And then some

1634
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:33,640
kind of basic security of material nature, you know, I

1635
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,079
mean in every like their bone sense. But that's not

1636
01:32:36,319 --> 01:32:40,319
like why if that collapsed. There's there's ysfunctional governments that

1637
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:42,880
just like lurch on for centuries, you know, like the

1638
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,399
out of an empire. Okay, like the Soviet regime fell

1639
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,800
because it was it was literally like this perverse iteration

1640
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:54,760
of of of of a regime that was literally across

1641
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:58,199
purposes with with you know what what what should be

1642
01:32:58,279 --> 01:33:00,840
like the t los of government. Then if you if

1643
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:02,640
you're literally like one of things I agree with the

1644
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:06,840
Michael Jones on is if you're literally proceeding like if

1645
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:09,520
you're literally proceeding against a reason, like that's kind of

1646
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,399
like your course set. You know, you're like anti reason,

1647
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:15,920
like that can't really sustain itself. And eventually people are

1648
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:18,800
gonna revolt against that. I mean, even if they don't

1649
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:21,720
understand really like what's wrong with the regime they're under

1650
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:25,079
and like philosophical or ethical or or any kind of

1651
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:31,039
you know it like you know, intellectual terms, just because

1652
01:33:31,359 --> 01:33:33,880
it's it's it's gonna like start, it's gonna star like

1653
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,399
from any obstacles their ability to lead a normal life,

1654
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:39,359
you know, and like do anything constructive, you know, And

1655
01:33:39,399 --> 01:33:42,319
that's that's kind of where we're at now. But yeah,

1656
01:33:42,359 --> 01:33:43,920
I forgive me if that was a long one.

1657
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 1: Well, I think the you would you had talked about

1658
01:33:49,039 --> 01:33:54,479
how understanding the zeitgeist is most important. So if you

1659
01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:02,560
were to take any lessons from Sorel in repairing what

1660
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:07,319
we have here. Okay, so we don't have we don't

1661
01:34:07,319 --> 01:34:11,079
have a history of communism here, we have a history.

1662
01:34:11,399 --> 01:34:14,600
We don't have a history of Roman Catholicism here. You know,

1663
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:21,560
we have a history of Protestant farmers, working men who

1664
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:29,000
basically can have a history of providing for themselves. So

1665
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:32,960
the you know, what is the answer that's you know,

1666
01:34:33,039 --> 01:34:37,079
it's like a lot of the people I know, their

1667
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:39,600
answer is, well, we just have to get rid of

1668
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,239
the state. As we get rid of the state, then

1669
01:34:42,399 --> 01:34:47,600
you know, the we can institute good economics quote economics.

1670
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:50,640
Of course that has never been tried. They just assume

1671
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:53,960
that it's going to be better. You know, people will

1672
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:57,319
be able to defend themselves. Well, if we just get

1673
01:34:57,399 --> 01:35:00,479
rid of gun laws, any gun law, then you know,

1674
01:35:01,039 --> 01:35:05,039
violence can take care of itself, because you can if

1675
01:35:05,039 --> 01:35:08,319
somebody comes at you, now you're you can have a

1676
01:35:08,319 --> 01:35:11,520
bigger gun than them. I mean not not taking into

1677
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:14,399
account that people just with people are large families just

1678
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:19,079
put together their own armies, you know. And so when

1679
01:35:19,119 --> 01:35:24,399
you try to devise an answer to what we have now.

1680
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:29,159
I don't think that going backwards in time is what's

1681
01:35:29,199 --> 01:35:30,720
going to solve it. We're going to it's going to

1682
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:34,560
be something new, but it's going to be something that

1683
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:38,560
involves a government of some sort, and I think it's

1684
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,279
going to I would assume it's going to be something

1685
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:45,359
that would be more of a right classic right wing

1686
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:51,319
government if we're going to hold any of this together, unless,

1687
01:35:51,399 --> 01:35:53,720
of course it just breaks up and balkanizes.

1688
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,520
Speaker 2: Well, there some of some of the problems that take

1689
01:35:56,520 --> 01:36:00,800
care of itself. There's not even appalling in or some

1690
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:03,800
kind of or some kind of Uh. I don't have

1691
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:07,479
some kind of like eschatology of you know, how the

1692
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:09,880
government is going to all go down or something and that.

1693
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,680
But what's gonna hit to my point about what I

1694
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:18,479
raised earlier about or a minute ago, rather about you know,

1695
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:20,479
not being able to sustain in the course that's literally

1696
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:23,039
at odds with the reason. I mean, there's there's a

1697
01:36:23,079 --> 01:36:27,039
few things wrong with the government, Okay, one of which

1698
01:36:27,079 --> 01:36:29,359
is structural, you know, like we've talked about like regardless

1699
01:36:29,359 --> 01:36:31,279
how you felt feel about like Roosevelt in a history

1700
01:36:31,399 --> 01:36:34,079
or the New Deal or whatever, like the regimes that

1701
01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:37,600
exist today. It's an anachronism. It's as much of them

1702
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:40,840
as as the Soviet Union was and like a turanglerea okay,

1703
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:45,159
because it's it's it's structured to do something that that

1704
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:50,119
is uh that there's no longer extant. Okay, I mean

1705
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:52,920
it's it's it's structured to wage the Cold War, Okay,

1706
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:57,000
and then that's about it, and literally everything else that's

1707
01:36:57,039 --> 01:37:00,319
subservient to that, because even even regimes are totally just functional,

1708
01:37:00,399 --> 01:37:03,479
even even those that are populated by people we don't

1709
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:09,039
have any meaningful understanding of of high politics conceptually, they're

1710
01:37:09,079 --> 01:37:12,239
they're like bound by basic realities, okay, like going to

1711
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:14,359
the fact that you know, their ability to act like

1712
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:19,520
hemmed in by uh by by by critical disincentives to

1713
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:25,079
you know, to push up against that. Okay. So everything

1714
01:37:25,119 --> 01:37:27,600
was every everything is subserve me at the high politics, okay,

1715
01:37:28,279 --> 01:37:33,159
when particularly when you have uh a situation, strategic landscape

1716
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:38,039
like that of the Cold War. So I mean, the

1717
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,720
regimes just it's it's it's it's you know, it's a

1718
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,680
it's a quote solution like in constant search of a

1719
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:49,239
problem to you know, to the rationalize it continued existence.

1720
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:54,399
So there's that there's also uh, there's this radical uh

1721
01:37:55,000 --> 01:38:00,359
faction that's you know, really really I mean, the New

1722
01:38:00,399 --> 01:38:05,159
Deal was when it was when it was able to

1723
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:11,399
assert itself politically and truly kind of concrete, organized capacities.

1724
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,439
So I mean frout a century, we've just kind of

1725
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:21,439
like lampre wrapped around the the structure of government proverbially speaking,

1726
01:38:23,119 --> 01:38:26,960
that's uh that, that's uh that that's actively trying to

1727
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:31,479
destroy the culture and uh the ability of the people,

1728
01:38:32,319 --> 01:38:36,319
uh who are the you know within that culture live

1729
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:41,600
historically or to or to harbor any identities of a

1730
01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:48,079
historical nature. Okay, if and that must that have to

1731
01:38:48,079 --> 01:38:52,640
be excised. How it's going to excise, that depends on

1732
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:57,399
what develops. But the structural problem I was talking about

1733
01:38:57,399 --> 01:39:01,640
about the obsolescence of uh, the regime that's gonna take

1734
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:04,079
care of itself, and not in some punctuated way. It's

1735
01:39:04,119 --> 01:39:06,800
not gonna be some like Mad Max scenario where everything

1736
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:09,720
blows up one day. It might take two hundred and

1737
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:12,880
fifty years or something, Okay, but gradually it's just not

1738
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,600
gonna be able to assert itself anymore. And you're gonna

1739
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:20,439
see localities, you know, whether you know, whether it's some

1740
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:22,880
what you know, whether it's like some some mid size

1741
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:26,640
city in New Mexico, Arizona that you know, can't rely

1742
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:29,880
on the federal government, you know, to provide it with, uh,

1743
01:39:30,159 --> 01:39:32,640
with the water it needs and things like that, and

1744
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:38,159
the infrastructural uh, the things it needs. So you know,

1745
01:39:38,199 --> 01:39:40,640
it's just gonna it's just gonna have to find ways

1746
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:43,760
to you know, to resort to self help, you know,

1747
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,000
in Congress with you know, like the other states and

1748
01:39:47,079 --> 01:39:50,560
municipalities that are similarly situated. Or whether it's you know,

1749
01:39:51,399 --> 01:39:54,640
some place like Chicago where you know, you take this

1750
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:56,880
you know, you take like the West Side that's like

1751
01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:59,520
increasingly just like kind of going to hell in a handbasket.

1752
01:40:00,039 --> 01:40:02,079
You know, like the police increasingly you just kind of

1753
01:40:02,119 --> 01:40:05,039
like just don't patrol anymore. You know, you're gonna see

1754
01:40:05,079 --> 01:40:08,039
more and more situations like that where, uh, you know,

1755
01:40:08,119 --> 01:40:11,119
people in true like ghettos like like live like Perl,

1756
01:40:11,319 --> 01:40:15,880
not intersecting lives with like bourgeois people and they don't

1757
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:18,920
even like really interfere with each other anymore. Okay, like uh,

1758
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:21,039
and then that that's happening as we speak, Like I

1759
01:40:21,159 --> 01:40:23,520
see it. I'm not just like It's not some science

1760
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:26,560
fiction thing I came up with. So like things like

1761
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:28,600
that are kind of gonna kind of gonna conspire to

1762
01:40:29,159 --> 01:40:32,720
you know, just kind of like deprive the regime of

1763
01:40:32,800 --> 01:40:39,000
credibility in uh in hard power terms, and uh that

1764
01:40:39,319 --> 01:40:44,399
will uh that that'll like the the uh the radical

1765
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:50,479
culture distortion element within that regime. Like on account of

1766
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:53,399
these kinds of structural frailties that are increasingly emergent, it

1767
01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:55,680
won't be able to impose its will on people anymore.

1768
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:58,119
You know, it's not gonna be able to insinuate crazy

1769
01:40:58,159 --> 01:41:00,520
ideas to the part of education. You know, it's not

1770
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:03,680
going to be able to you know, transform like what

1771
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:07,119
we're you know, basically functional with kind of poor communities

1772
01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:09,439
into like ghettos where like you know, race wars are

1773
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:13,439
going on. It's not gonna be able to you know, uh,

1774
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:17,840
it's not it's not gonna be able to mobilize uh people, uh,

1775
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:20,840
you know, to go and annihilate you know, other societies

1776
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:23,920
overseas that decide you don't have to be destroyed, and

1777
01:41:23,960 --> 01:41:26,479
that that's already happening too. You know. That's why increasingly

1778
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:31,600
this reliance on mercenaries and and things like that, So

1779
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:38,600
what what will emerge from those proverbial ashes. I believe

1780
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:42,760
once you strip away what I just talk about and

1781
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,079
the core of America, you know, kind of like the

1782
01:41:45,079 --> 01:41:48,279
white Christian core and those people who are you know,

1783
01:41:48,319 --> 01:41:53,279
who perhaps aren't you know, like us ethnically or or

1784
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:56,119
or or don't like a bid you know, the same

1785
01:41:56,199 --> 01:41:59,319
sex that we do. But where my fellow travelers in

1786
01:41:59,359 --> 01:42:00,960
terms there are billy you to you know, create and

1787
01:42:01,039 --> 01:42:05,479
sustain culture. That kind of core I think kind of

1788
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:08,840
like the core setting of America is like hamiled vers

1789
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:11,079
of Jefferson, and a lot of people object to that,

1790
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:15,159
and that can be like oversimplified, but basically it's the

1791
01:42:15,239 --> 01:42:20,159
federalist versus an anti federalist perspective, okay. And you can

1792
01:42:20,199 --> 01:42:23,720
see some states that uh tend towards the former and

1793
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:29,239
some towards the ladder, and that's gonna cause tensions, but

1794
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:33,239
generally it's not in anybody's interests, you know, to wage

1795
01:42:33,279 --> 01:42:37,039
bloody civil wars. And I think by necessity, particularly in America,

1796
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:43,199
it becomes poor, you know, kind of uh, pragmatism is

1797
01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:47,359
gonna carry the day, you know, but just in practical terms,

1798
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,960
you know, you're not gonna you know, like twitter years

1799
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:53,439
from now. You know, if you do have you know,

1800
01:42:54,239 --> 01:42:57,239
the geographic division is gonna isn't gonna be between you know,

1801
01:42:57,359 --> 01:42:59,439
like the old North and the Old South, but there's

1802
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:02,000
gonna be some of the same kind of tendencies that

1803
01:43:02,199 --> 01:43:06,199
you know, cause like a political and and and sociological

1804
01:43:06,239 --> 01:43:09,439
class between them. But you're not You're not gonna You're

1805
01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:11,079
not gonna have this regime that's kind of got like

1806
01:43:11,199 --> 01:43:14,000
endless that that's got kind of like a that's got

1807
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:16,960
bottomless pockets, you know, uh, and the ability to just

1808
01:43:17,039 --> 01:43:21,800
kind of like you know, martial unprecedented productive capabilities to

1809
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:24,880
like wage war and dominate you know, anybody you wants.

1810
01:43:25,159 --> 01:43:29,399
The that's not going to exist anymore. You know. That'side

1811
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:31,880
the fact that that's really kind of self defeating as

1812
01:43:32,039 --> 01:43:35,680
a as as a as a course to you know,

1813
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:40,479
to unite the country in some sort of in some

1814
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:44,479
sort of a unitary political culture under a single sovereign.

1815
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:46,479
I mean that was possible in the War between the

1816
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:52,439
States for kind of complicated reasons, but it's also you know,

1817
01:43:52,479 --> 01:43:55,199
the the war win the States shouldn't happen in the

1818
01:43:55,239 --> 01:43:57,199
first place. I mean, I don't know, I don't know

1819
01:43:57,239 --> 01:43:59,560
if there's any a civil war discussion, but it my

1820
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:01,399
point is like I'm not it's there's not some look

1821
01:44:01,479 --> 01:44:05,960
evitability that you know, absent these kinds of a because

1822
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:10,600
of the alien elements that I just talked about. You know,

1823
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:14,520
we're literally attacking the body politic and absent this kind

1824
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:18,159
of obsolescent and very corrupt regime, you know, morally materially,

1825
01:44:18,399 --> 01:44:20,560
that's kind of desperately trying to cling to power. I

1826
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:22,640
don't see Americans just kind of like going to the

1827
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:25,199
rifle to kill each other as a matter of first recourse.

1828
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:29,000
You know, generally these things can be resolved. You know.

1829
01:44:29,199 --> 01:44:32,239
It's and I may be wrong, but I I don't

1830
01:44:32,279 --> 01:44:34,720
think I'm overly optimistic. I mean, I am like a

1831
01:44:37,079 --> 01:44:39,800
basically a gloomy Angle six and Calvin is kind of dude.

1832
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,199
I don't think anybody accuse me of being some like

1833
01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:45,159
optimist Pollyanna who says everything's gonna be all right all

1834
01:44:45,159 --> 01:44:48,159
the time. But I don't. I don't agree with guys

1835
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:51,239
like Thomas Chitthham and who he he. He is a

1836
01:44:51,279 --> 01:44:53,560
fascinating guy, and he wrote some great stuff in the nineties.

1837
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:56,960
And it's like Civil War two paradigm, Like he literally

1838
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:58,680
wrote a book called Civil War two. It was I'm

1839
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:01,720
sure some of the fellows that are familiar with I mean,

1840
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:03,840
like I'm an old guy, so I'm familiar with that.

1841
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:07,319
I read it when I was like sixteen. But the

1842
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:09,920
kind of ethnic confleet he talks about, yeah, I don't

1843
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:13,319
doubt that that that's pretty possible, and it's unfortunately in

1844
01:45:13,319 --> 01:45:16,800
some places that's underway, right, But.

1845
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 1: Pierce, you know, even yeah, Pierce the same everything. A

1846
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:29,359
lot of that talk was in and around the militia

1847
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:32,640
movement of you know, the late eighties and nineties that

1848
01:45:33,079 --> 01:45:34,439
Clinton declared war on.

1849
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:39,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the nineties were, the nineties were wild times

1850
01:45:39,319 --> 01:45:42,439
and and mostly in good and bad ways, mostly bad ways.

1851
01:45:42,479 --> 01:45:45,640
And yeah that I do. I mean, don't get me wrong.

1852
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:50,680
Like there's definitely I can definitely see you know, like

1853
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:52,920
like eighty years from or whatever, you know, a place

1854
01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:56,640
like Detroit or a place like west side Chicago. You know,

1855
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:59,359
basically something like gangster world words like on the cops

1856
01:45:59,399 --> 01:46:01,520
like you're not the law here, like we're the law here,

1857
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,840
and like what we say goes and you know where

1858
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:07,560
the Lord King is sovereign and them being kind of

1859
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:10,720
like a periodic war with like blackwater Tights who owing

1860
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:13,319
to some interest for another you know, are being hired

1861
01:46:13,359 --> 01:46:18,920
by uh, you know, either wealthy private agents or by

1862
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:22,239
what remains of you know, the the seate of sovereign

1863
01:46:22,279 --> 01:46:25,199
government in the state and and like and going to

1864
01:46:25,199 --> 01:46:27,600
war with these people in the localized ways or something

1865
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,960
where I can see like militia type guys, you know,

1866
01:46:31,039 --> 01:46:33,399
pulling like what the Arian Nations did and saying like,

1867
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:36,720
look like we're seceding because you know, we're like, you know,

1868
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:39,119
we're like the Arian Community of Christ And if you're

1869
01:46:39,119 --> 01:46:40,800
not white, you're not right. And if you're a fed,

1870
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:42,800
you're fucking dead. So like you're not gonna you know,

1871
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:46,079
you're not gonna fuck with our municipality and the government

1872
01:46:46,159 --> 01:46:48,920
just being like, well, we're not gonna like we're not

1873
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:50,920
gonna fight some like endless war with these people. We're

1874
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:52,439
not gonna kill them all. So it's like leave them

1875
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:55,840
alone like stuff like that. I definitely see happening. I

1876
01:46:55,840 --> 01:46:59,439
don't see, like you know, I don't I don't see

1877
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:02,520
you know, like years from now some kind of uprising,

1878
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,039
some kind of simultaneous uprising and kind of like the

1879
01:47:06,039 --> 01:47:09,319
White underclass against you know, the regime, and like blacks

1880
01:47:09,319 --> 01:47:11,920
against the man, and like immigrants who like you know,

1881
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:15,359
want to create like you know, Oslon and like the Southwest.

1882
01:47:15,359 --> 01:47:19,199
I just don't see that happening. It's not likely. And

1883
01:47:19,279 --> 01:47:22,199
Shildham was Sham was a dude born in the forties

1884
01:47:22,239 --> 01:47:25,399
who who's sort of experienced, was in was in Vietnam,

1885
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:27,319
And I mean, I totally get that. And I got

1886
01:47:27,399 --> 01:47:30,680
a lot of respect for dudes like that, you know.

1887
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:32,560
And then I mean that's my day's generation, you know,

1888
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:36,119
And I got huge respect from my dad as in

1889
01:47:36,199 --> 01:47:38,600
all of them, guys. I'm not saying like they got

1890
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,600
stupid ideas at all. What I'm saying is like their

1891
01:47:41,600 --> 01:47:44,479
world views, like we was colored by that. And I

1892
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:46,439
don't have a crystal ball. I'm not some kind of

1893
01:47:46,479 --> 01:47:49,640
like Augur, but I do think I'm pretty good and

1894
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:56,199
kind of discerning basic the basic trajectory of of political events,

1895
01:47:56,439 --> 01:47:59,560
you know, like in every basic sense. Okay, I think

1896
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:03,319
that's why people read my content. Frankly, you know, it's

1897
01:48:03,319 --> 01:48:05,319
not it's not because I'm a comediant or because like

1898
01:48:05,319 --> 01:48:11,640
I'm a a great knuckle but you know, I and yeah,

1899
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:13,000
and plus two I'll turn it back to you in

1900
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:16,520
a minute. I'm sorry for rambling, but the you know

1901
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:19,079
frankly too. And I mean, I recognize this because it's

1902
01:48:19,079 --> 01:48:23,039
my culture, and I totally I've got a problem acknowledging

1903
01:48:23,039 --> 01:48:26,279
it to the tendency to like apot not just escatological,

1904
01:48:26,399 --> 01:48:29,399
but like apocalyptic thinking in America, you know, and there's

1905
01:48:29,399 --> 01:48:32,319
an idea that there's gonna there's always gonna be a

1906
01:48:32,399 --> 01:48:35,640
day log, and there's gonna be there, there's gonna be uh,

1907
01:48:36,119 --> 01:48:39,479
you know, there's always gonna be something like punctuated event

1908
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:41,920
that brings everything down. You know, there's gonna be you know,

1909
01:48:42,039 --> 01:48:45,279
some kind of like massic, some like extinction level event. Honestly,

1910
01:48:45,319 --> 01:48:48,239
that's like when underlies the global warming bullshit. It's like

1911
01:48:48,239 --> 01:48:51,000
the weird old, basic kind of like uh, it's it's

1912
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:52,800
like a it's it's kind of like the loser, basic,

1913
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:55,920
bougie version of it. But I mean that's that's why

1914
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:58,119
it's weird to hear like Europeans parodic because it's not

1915
01:48:58,119 --> 01:49:01,079
a European thing. That's like America thing, you know. And

1916
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:05,119
but on our sidety, I mean, even intelligent guys and

1917
01:49:05,199 --> 01:49:07,720
some ladies you know who don't ascribe to that kind

1918
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:09,720
of nonsense. And there's even kind of cogs and the

1919
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:13,840
tendency I talk about like anthropologically, they still like they've

1920
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:16,000
got this kind of like instinctive tendency to think in

1921
01:49:16,079 --> 01:49:20,359
terms of like punctuated equilibrium. I'm in in in historical

1922
01:49:20,399 --> 01:49:24,199
events and like apocalyptic stuff like oh, you know, just

1923
01:49:24,239 --> 01:49:26,399
one day everything's gonna come down, or there's gonna be

1924
01:49:26,399 --> 01:49:29,119
a race war, or like infrastructure is just gonna go

1925
01:49:29,199 --> 01:49:31,920
belly up and we're not gonna clean water, Like it's

1926
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,560
not gonna happen. You know, it's it's gonna be a

1927
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:37,720
death by a thousand cuts, and it's gonna be like

1928
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,399
it's gonna be a couple hundred years, Like a Mary's

1929
01:49:40,399 --> 01:49:42,359
gonna exist in some form or another for a couple

1930
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:45,439
hundred years. Yet, you know, even even if it's just

1931
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:47,840
like in even if even if twitter years now it's

1932
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:49,680
just like in name only kind of like the last

1933
01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:52,279
day is the Holy Roman Empire or something, but it's

1934
01:49:52,279 --> 01:49:54,640
it's going to exist in some sense, and there's gonna

1935
01:49:54,640 --> 01:49:57,359
be a guy who's identified as President of the United States,

1936
01:49:57,720 --> 01:49:59,399
Like what kind of cloud he has, what kind of

1937
01:49:59,399 --> 01:50:04,560
ability he as raised Army. I mean, that's that's a

1938
01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:09,920
different question. But I firmly believe that. But yeah, go ahead.

1939
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:12,239
I'm sorry. I don't mean to monopolize the conversation.

1940
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 1: I want everyone to know that this ad break is

1941
01:50:16,039 --> 01:50:18,760
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1942
01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:22,520
crowd health, I became a member. We know the insurance

1943
01:50:22,600 --> 01:50:25,720
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1944
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:30,840
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1945
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:34,399
the first five hundred dollars of any healthcare event, and

1946
01:50:34,439 --> 01:50:37,079
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1947
01:50:37,119 --> 01:50:40,640
don't have to worry about exclusive doctor networks, huge premiums,

1948
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or high deductibles. There are no surprises. You get peace

1949
01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:48,640
of mind that no insurance company concerns itself with take

1950
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:52,479
charge of your healthcare today. With crowd health, open enrollment

1951
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:54,720
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1952
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:58,439
broken system without penalty, So don't wait, and for a

1953
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:01,960
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1954
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:05,119
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1955
01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:10,720
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1956
01:51:10,760 --> 01:51:14,000
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1957
01:51:14,159 --> 01:51:20,359
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1958
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:23,840
It's a totally different way of paying for healthcare. Terms

1959
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:28,000
and conditions may apply. No, we can start. We can

1960
01:51:28,039 --> 01:51:30,880
start an argument on when the when the Roman Empire

1961
01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:35,800
started to fall. I mean, some people will say, you

1962
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:39,359
know what, you know, what Caesar and with the first Caesar.

1963
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,279
But okay, well here's something I wanted to bring up.

1964
01:51:42,279 --> 01:51:47,600
So this book actually talks about violence. It has violence

1965
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:52,359
in the in the title, but he also he also

1966
01:51:52,439 --> 01:51:55,600
talks about social change. He also talks about political change.

1967
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:59,119
And from everything you've just said, is the change that

1968
01:51:59,159 --> 01:52:04,000
would happen in our culture where we were born, where

1969
01:52:04,039 --> 01:52:07,239
we are. I don't think any of us are. Most

1970
01:52:07,239 --> 01:52:09,800
of us aren't planning on going anywhere else. Is going

1971
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:13,039
to be social and is going to be political, because

1972
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:18,840
that's where sure, if you go back to the War

1973
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:22,399
between the States, the War of Northern Aggression, then you

1974
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:24,560
can talk about violence, and you can talk about an

1975
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:28,319
invasion of a foreign land. But really what started to

1976
01:52:28,359 --> 01:52:33,800
bring down what we have now was social and political

1977
01:52:33,880 --> 01:52:39,600
and it was by you mentioned the term culture distortion,

1978
01:52:40,239 --> 01:52:45,000
invoking Yaki and invoking Spangler, that's what has to be

1979
01:52:45,079 --> 01:52:48,720
won back. And I really think, and people are probably

1980
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:51,000
sick of hearing me say this over and over again,

1981
01:52:51,319 --> 01:52:53,920
that that's going to have to start at the most

1982
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:57,319
local level, and probably the most local level is in

1983
01:52:57,399 --> 01:53:00,640
the home and then spreading out to community and going

1984
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:02,159
forward like that like that.

1985
01:53:02,279 --> 01:53:04,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. And that's one of the things.

1986
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:07,199
I mean that that's a Surrealian point too, you know,

1987
01:53:07,359 --> 01:53:09,199
one of the things one of the reasons he was

1988
01:53:09,319 --> 01:53:11,399
hung up on Xenophon and one of the reasons why

1989
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:13,680
you know, he talked about, you know, the home being

1990
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:16,640
kind of like the school of command, you know, where

1991
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:19,520
where like the patriarch, you know, learns how to you know,

1992
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:21,720
how to how to rule over his wife and children

1993
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:24,840
in a firm way, but in an equitable way. You know.

1994
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:27,279
That's that's how that that's where women learn, you know,

1995
01:53:27,359 --> 01:53:29,399
how to like how to like relate to men and

1996
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:32,079
stuff and like hold down the household. And women do that.

1997
01:53:32,159 --> 01:53:34,640
You know, believe that, you know, that's not some conceit.

1998
01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:36,800
That's very true. So I don't like people mean down

1999
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:40,520
at females, that's where kids like learn, you know, how

2000
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:42,680
how how to grow up into adult men and women,

2001
01:53:43,159 --> 01:53:46,720
you know, and uh and and you know and and

2002
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:48,520
and the nature of like what you know, what is

2003
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:52,640
just and the parameters of obedience like within within you know,

2004
01:53:52,680 --> 01:53:55,600
within that kind of justice paradigm of command and obedience.

2005
01:53:57,239 --> 01:54:01,279
And that's why you know this in a concrete engagement

2006
01:54:02,000 --> 01:54:05,439
with with what we consider the body politic I mean

2007
01:54:05,479 --> 01:54:09,319
in Sir Alzheimer, now, I mean, uh as the body

2008
01:54:09,319 --> 01:54:12,119
politic and anthem has consisted of of like every liked

2009
01:54:12,119 --> 01:54:15,279
a household, you know, and uh, some of these men

2010
01:54:15,319 --> 01:54:17,079
were rich and some of them were not so rich.

2011
01:54:17,199 --> 01:54:19,399
But you know, they all went to war together. They

2012
01:54:19,439 --> 01:54:22,119
all told the soil together, you know, they all they

2013
01:54:22,159 --> 01:54:25,319
all participated in the assembly together. Like this idea of

2014
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:31,079
you know, hyper specialization and dividing people into like you know,

2015
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:35,840
basically neglecy, dividing people's functions within the same kind of caste,

2016
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:40,039
that's that's a recipe that that's that's a recipe for

2017
01:54:40,119 --> 01:54:43,159
self destruction, among other things. Because that's Therrel's point is, like, well,

2018
01:54:43,199 --> 01:54:46,399
then you have this basically parasitic cast of politicians who,

2019
01:54:46,439 --> 01:54:49,760
even if they themselves aren't aren't wealthy by birth, you know,

2020
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:53,439
they they basically become like the clients of wealthy patrons

2021
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:55,760
and aside of everything else that's wrong with that, Like

2022
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:58,439
these guys don't work, they don't do anything, you know,

2023
01:54:58,439 --> 01:55:01,479
they're like this, there's this weird leisured class that by

2024
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:04,359
nature's kind of decadences, you know, that develops resentments of

2025
01:55:04,399 --> 01:55:07,800
the Yalemen ry and vice versa, and UH in turn,

2026
01:55:08,079 --> 01:55:13,359
they're dependent upon these kinds of intellectuals and financers, who,

2027
01:55:13,399 --> 01:55:16,159
in Sorel's view like have more are like in bed

2028
01:55:16,199 --> 01:55:19,960
together like verbially, you know, and they and you know,

2029
01:55:21,119 --> 01:55:24,079
these guys view themselves as they they you know, they've

2030
01:55:24,359 --> 01:55:26,359
they've got their own kind of like resentment and fear

2031
01:55:26,399 --> 01:55:29,319
of like the Yalemen re or the proletariat like in

2032
01:55:29,399 --> 01:55:32,000
Cerel's at Bach. You know, but they themselves are as

2033
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:36,479
parasitic as like the political caste, and just as UH

2034
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:39,479
and just as prone to intrigues, you know, because they're

2035
01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:43,000
they're they're their situation is always tenguless, you know, because

2036
01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:47,840
they're they're they're they're they're they're by definition they're parasitic,

2037
01:55:48,039 --> 01:55:52,680
you know. They they they rely upon the willingness of

2038
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:56,800
UH of the two other factions they just identified to

2039
01:55:57,279 --> 01:55:59,800
not just tolerate them, but to sustain them and everything

2040
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:01,680
else aside, Like even if you had a totally like

2041
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:05,439
homogenous population, even if at least nominally there was some

2042
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:08,880
kind of common culture and common religion like ce religion

2043
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:11,439
and like ethics in common, that that's still a create

2044
01:56:11,479 --> 01:56:14,359
all kinds of weird pathologies, and and it would institutionalize

2045
01:56:14,399 --> 01:56:19,960
social divisions in ways that not that not just their counterproductive,

2046
01:56:20,479 --> 01:56:22,439
you know, until like a virtual society, even just in

2047
01:56:22,479 --> 01:56:26,760
practical terms, like what you don't institutionalize social divisions for

2048
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:30,039
its own sake because I'm gonna endless conversation and endless

2049
01:56:30,119 --> 01:56:33,439
argument and endless contention is some marvelous thing from which

2050
01:56:33,439 --> 01:56:36,239
we all benefits. That was that was called Schmid's point

2051
01:56:36,239 --> 01:56:40,760
about parliamentarism. My wife's dysfunctional, Like on his face, it's

2052
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:44,560
there's there's something very ethological about it. I don't mean

2053
01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:50,239
insinuate these kinds of psychological terms in the discussion, but

2054
01:56:50,279 --> 01:56:52,319
I can't think of a better way to describe it,

2055
01:56:52,399 --> 01:56:56,119
because it is it's it's it's uh, it's a maladaptive

2056
01:56:57,319 --> 01:57:00,960
uh conceived of of human mind. Is the pray these

2057
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:04,520
things It's not like practical, it's not things that exist

2058
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:06,760
and like you know in kind of political reality that

2059
01:57:06,800 --> 01:57:09,079
we just come upon and have to address, these things

2060
01:57:09,119 --> 01:57:12,399
are very much cultivated and created and it's very artificial,

2061
01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:14,359
you know what I mean you see this today, I

2062
01:57:14,359 --> 01:57:21,199
mean even uh there's you know these like even if

2063
01:57:21,199 --> 01:57:24,279
you took away the culture distortion and aspect like look

2064
01:57:24,359 --> 01:57:27,760
like this, look like this infotainment garbage. Its job basically

2065
01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:30,640
is the kind of like is a manufacture like Widge

2066
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:34,560
issues us like make people upset about you know, like

2067
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:37,520
this isn't stuff that's like emerging when people when people's

2068
01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:40,760
actual lives or if this isn't stuff that you know,

2069
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:44,399
people would uh people would identify as as as being

2070
01:57:44,479 --> 01:57:47,119
something that you know, warning their attention and some like

2071
01:57:47,479 --> 01:57:51,720
oncological capacity. It's like literally just like confabulated and you

2072
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:55,159
know because people are like, uh, you know, even in

2073
01:57:55,159 --> 01:57:58,560
the best of times, you know, like common people or

2074
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:00,359
you know, deal with a lot of certain and like

2075
01:58:00,399 --> 01:58:05,960
anxiety uh derived therein you know that that's that's kind

2076
01:58:05,960 --> 01:58:07,880
of formless, you know, something that's just this kind of

2077
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:11,720
human condition, you know, when they're plugged into figuratively and

2078
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:14,760
literally like plugged into some kind of media organ twenty

2079
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:18,239
or seven. You know, one of the things that satisfies

2080
01:58:18,600 --> 01:58:21,239
or one of like the needs of fulfills like psychologically

2081
01:58:21,279 --> 01:58:24,039
and tell them cope with things is like giving form

2082
01:58:24,119 --> 01:58:29,119
to these kinds of amorphous like negative feelings and anxieties

2083
01:58:29,159 --> 01:58:32,279
and so it it's it's it's kind of like a

2084
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:34,520
these thing are kind of like permanently situated to be,

2085
01:58:34,760 --> 01:58:39,960
you know, like manipulated by a sort of idol like

2086
01:58:40,119 --> 01:58:43,520
parasite political cast whose only real role is to kind

2087
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:47,319
of is to kind of create like you know, institutionalized

2088
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:52,000
grievance structures, if that makes any sense. And I mean,

2089
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:54,159
you know, obviously a high tech and like you know,

2090
01:58:54,680 --> 01:58:57,720
media like change all that. I mean, even like radioven

2091
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:00,520
for TV, like visual media is a huge game changer.

2092
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:04,119
But even like radio, like the ability to just like

2093
01:59:04,159 --> 01:59:07,359
literally brought broad being able to broadcast any capacity like

2094
01:59:07,439 --> 01:59:11,000
coast to coast or like across the European continent, you know,

2095
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:13,359
from like Paris to like Prague, like that was that

2096
01:59:13,640 --> 01:59:16,039
was a game changer, you know, for the reasons I

2097
01:59:16,079 --> 01:59:21,560
just stated, and that uh that that's one of the

2098
01:59:21,600 --> 01:59:26,640
reasons why people ask like why why why It's kind

2099
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:29,399
of like faux democracy or it's kind of like institutionalized

2100
01:59:29,479 --> 01:59:34,960
uh or it's kind of like institutionalized grievance uh structure.

2101
01:59:35,159 --> 01:59:38,960
I just identified, like why why why it seems to

2102
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:42,279
like acciomatically coexist with you know, like the modern like

2103
01:59:42,359 --> 01:59:45,439
managerial state. Well, I mean the answer is media. I mean,

2104
01:59:45,439 --> 01:59:47,640
I don't mean a time of reductionists, but I I

2105
01:59:47,640 --> 01:59:50,039
think i've I think I've invoked the quote before from

2106
01:59:50,079 --> 01:59:52,720
Natural Born Killers. I really like National Born Killers. It's

2107
01:59:52,760 --> 01:59:56,560
a really dope movie, and I I try and turn

2108
01:59:56,600 --> 01:59:58,840
people onto it because it's not it's not just like

2109
01:59:59,560 --> 02:00:03,520
gross Quentin Tarantino's stuff or like Oliver Stone like preachy stuff.

2110
02:00:04,199 --> 02:00:08,319
It's really really insightful and it's really subversive in some ways.

2111
02:00:08,359 --> 02:00:12,680
But the guy who's uh like the Stark Weather uh

2112
02:00:13,199 --> 02:00:16,199
like Diliger character, you know, Woody Harrelson, when he's talking

2113
02:00:16,319 --> 02:00:18,199
like the media guy, he's like, you know, he's like

2114
02:00:18,520 --> 02:00:20,680
he's like, media is like the weather, but it's man made.

2115
02:00:20,680 --> 02:00:23,520
Weather is this thing you're immersed in and you don't

2116
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:25,399
even you don't even like notice it. I said, I

2117
02:00:25,439 --> 02:00:27,720
find myself like not really noticing it. I mean I

2118
02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:31,079
discern like what what what's not People's minds and kind

2119
02:00:31,079 --> 02:00:34,239
of like you like, what's something like the Floyd craziness

2120
02:00:34,279 --> 02:00:37,119
George Floyd crasiness was jumping off. I would discern like

2121
02:00:37,119 --> 02:00:39,479
this is what people are thinking about. But it's like

2122
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:41,760
I don't even like I don't even always like detect

2123
02:00:41,800 --> 02:00:44,399
Immediately they're like, well, that's that's the narrative that's being

2124
02:00:44,439 --> 02:00:47,079
created by what, you know, the media they're immersed in,

2125
02:00:47,479 --> 02:00:49,840
because they're just like take for granted, you know, and

2126
02:00:49,880 --> 02:00:53,439
it uh and and speaking of zeitgeys the uh you know,

2127
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:56,039
like the day of day uh, like the day day

2128
02:00:56,119 --> 02:00:58,840
fixations of people like within that like brought a paradigm

2129
02:00:59,199 --> 02:01:01,720
like that that comes one hundred percent from media. I

2130
02:01:01,720 --> 02:01:05,359
mean it plays upon like things like intrinsic to mind,

2131
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:08,960
you know, like symbolically and and things really the impulse

2132
02:01:09,039 --> 02:01:11,920
and appetite and stuff and symbols that are kind of

2133
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:15,239
universally resonant in like most basic terms, but in terms

2134
02:01:15,279 --> 02:01:17,840
of the actual narrative, like the concrete particulars like of

2135
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:20,439
those narratives and of like those symbols and like what

2136
02:01:20,600 --> 02:01:25,199
form they take those totems rare, Like that's one hundred

2137
02:01:25,199 --> 02:01:31,560
percent created by uh by by architects of media, and

2138
02:01:31,560 --> 02:01:33,960
I mean that sounds conspiratorial to people. Whatever I mean,

2139
02:01:33,960 --> 02:01:35,600
I'm main a sociological observation.

2140
02:01:36,359 --> 02:01:43,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not it's not conspiratorial. Yeah yeah, yeah.

2141
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:47,279
This is part two. But when I released part one,

2142
02:01:47,359 --> 02:01:49,960
the next episode I did after that was me and

2143
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:54,039
my friend Buck writing the reading the Engineering and Consent

2144
02:01:54,119 --> 02:01:58,479
by Burne, and he wrote that in propaganda he wrote

2145
02:01:58,520 --> 02:02:01,359
in twenty in twenty twenty one, but he wrote this

2146
02:02:01,439 --> 02:02:05,039
in forty seven and he's already radios in every house,

2147
02:02:05,119 --> 02:02:07,199
TVs are starting to go in every house, and he

2148
02:02:07,279 --> 02:02:10,359
basically says, news is what we say it is.

2149
02:02:11,359 --> 02:02:17,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so it's the go Aheada'm sorry.

2150
02:02:18,039 --> 02:02:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, so two hundred years ago,

2151
02:02:24,399 --> 02:02:27,279
you had ten year olds that could run a farm,

2152
02:02:28,439 --> 02:02:32,279
and they you had a farm that people could survive on.

2153
02:02:32,399 --> 02:02:35,399
Then you have the technology, you know, the Industrial Revolution,

2154
02:02:36,239 --> 02:02:41,640
and now everyone has Everyone is just comfortable enough that

2155
02:02:41,680 --> 02:02:46,039
they won't revolt, but they also have this engineering. And

2156
02:02:46,079 --> 02:02:47,640
I was going to bring this back to what I

2157
02:02:47,680 --> 02:02:51,039
was reading earlier, is when you read about these syndicalists,

2158
02:02:51,199 --> 02:02:55,680
how they want to destroy anything that's anti patriotic. Well,

2159
02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:59,279
in the process of destroying anything that's anti patriotic. You

2160
02:02:59,439 --> 02:03:03,319
have to just destroy family, you have to destroy people's religion.

2161
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:07,720
And that's exactly what the culture disorders that we you know,

2162
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:10,760
that we've talked about, set out to do. And it's

2163
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:14,479
not a conspiracy theory. They wrote, you know, Burnez wrote

2164
02:03:14,479 --> 02:03:18,000
about about propaganda and that's why you have to have

2165
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:20,840
That's why the Internet is the blessing and curse it

2166
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:23,239
is because it puts out propaganda. But you can also

2167
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:29,520
destroy that propaganda within minutes in real time. But you're

2168
02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:35,960
basically dealing with culture disorders who are like, Okay, if

2169
02:03:36,000 --> 02:03:39,680
we are going to have the kind of power over

2170
02:03:40,159 --> 02:03:42,399
the people that we want, if we are going to

2171
02:03:42,399 --> 02:03:45,800
be the managers over these people, we have to do

2172
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:48,439
everything we can to destroy this. And it seems like

2173
02:03:48,520 --> 02:03:54,159
that is something clearly out of the Syndicolas, the communist playbook,

2174
02:03:54,439 --> 02:03:57,159
and even today, people that I know who are the

2175
02:03:57,359 --> 02:03:59,760
you know, some of the great you know, they believe

2176
02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:04,359
there fighting for freedom and liberty for the individual, don't

2177
02:04:04,399 --> 02:04:08,079
realize that they're basically on the same side as the syndicolas,

2178
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:11,880
who want to destroy every bit of hierarchy. And as

2179
02:04:11,920 --> 02:04:13,560
soon as you destroy hierarchy.

2180
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:14,680
Speaker 2: You are.

2181
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:21,159
Speaker 1: Word, you're where we where we are now you're in menagerialism.

2182
02:04:22,159 --> 02:04:24,840
Speaker 2: Well yeah, like I said, the problem is that there's

2183
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:29,239
a counterfeit hierarchy that is a cross purposes with virtue

2184
02:04:29,399 --> 02:04:33,279
and logos. There's the problem. The problem isn't that you know,

2185
02:04:33,359 --> 02:04:37,800
there's these distinctions exist in the first place, and structural terms,

2186
02:04:37,840 --> 02:04:41,279
I mean in the legitimate ways and like organic ways

2187
02:04:41,279 --> 02:04:45,560
that curs spontaneously. There's also the sendingolists who were on

2188
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:48,600
the right and some of these guys uh like a

2189
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:50,560
lot of these guys actually far really are in Spain

2190
02:04:50,880 --> 02:04:53,479
on the right, I mean, you know, against the Reds.

2191
02:04:53,479 --> 02:04:56,600
But they and you found this with with with the

2192
02:04:56,720 --> 02:05:02,880
Rohm fiction two you know in in uh, in the

2193
02:05:03,279 --> 02:05:08,560
in the Reich, Uh there's a there's a type of

2194
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:13,079
man who like really holds a communist and contempt not

2195
02:05:13,199 --> 02:05:16,159
just for the kind of more obvious reasons, but because

2196
02:05:16,159 --> 02:05:18,760
communism really is just promises. It's kind of like Telluric

2197
02:05:18,880 --> 02:05:23,960
utopia and it doesn't just like rob kind of the

2198
02:05:24,520 --> 02:05:27,680
you know, our living environment, in our our conceptual space

2199
02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:31,720
of anything beautiful, edifying or pool frankly, for if you'll

2200
02:05:31,720 --> 02:05:36,359
forgive the kind of colloquialism. But it also at the

2201
02:05:36,439 --> 02:05:38,800
end of the day, it's not really heroic because it's

2202
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:41,880
just saying essentially, well, you know, technology is gonna usher

2203
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:45,199
in this kind of garden of eating of uh of

2204
02:05:45,239 --> 02:05:47,800
like productive surplus. You know, we're all gonna have like

2205
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:50,199
all the cargo we want and you know we can

2206
02:05:50,359 --> 02:05:51,760
we can like eat as much as we want and

2207
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:53,439
like sit around as most as we want, and it's

2208
02:05:53,479 --> 02:05:56,640
gonna be great, you know. And uh, the cynical is

2209
02:05:57,000 --> 02:05:59,560
you know, part of the reverence for violence and kind

2210
02:05:59,560 --> 02:06:03,000
of like they're the sorel is. Like, no, the problem

2211
02:06:03,000 --> 02:06:06,000
with communism is that it's just as decadent as that is,

2212
02:06:06,039 --> 02:06:10,800
you know, the as the as the bourgeois worldview, you know.

2213
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:12,920
And the function of violence is that, you know, it

2214
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:15,800
forces man to be engaged with mortality and and with

2215
02:06:16,239 --> 02:06:18,439
you know, at least potentially heroic action and like a

2216
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:21,640
data day sense. You know. Now that can go too

2217
02:06:21,720 --> 02:06:25,399
far and you get like gangster as dudes as well

2218
02:06:25,399 --> 02:06:27,399
as cycle passed, as well as some guys who are

2219
02:06:27,399 --> 02:06:31,359
just kind of like angry and misguided for various reasons.

2220
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:33,760
You know, they take that to mean like, well, there's

2221
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:35,479
just kind of like an endless mersh to like burn

2222
02:06:35,560 --> 02:06:38,319
things the fuck down and like fuck people up. And

2223
02:06:38,439 --> 02:06:40,720
like the most kind of pure iteration of that right

2224
02:06:40,760 --> 02:06:43,479
now is like isis or whatever isis is like morphing

2225
02:06:43,520 --> 02:06:47,760
and do currently Okay, you know what you have then

2226
02:06:47,840 --> 02:06:50,199
is you have like a bunch of mongols. Okay, I

2227
02:06:50,239 --> 02:06:53,640
mean that and that's not I mean's all kinds of

2228
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:56,039
reasons why that's not. I'm sure some guys are can

2229
02:06:56,039 --> 02:06:57,880
saying the comments and being like a pussy or something.

2230
02:06:57,880 --> 02:07:01,239
It's like, okay, whatever, But I I don't think. I

2231
02:07:01,279 --> 02:07:03,279
don't think some kind of like endless like you know,

2232
02:07:03,399 --> 02:07:07,520
mongol rampage against things we don't like. Is is is

2233
02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:11,000
the way forward? But that is like a real tendency man,

2234
02:07:11,239 --> 02:07:14,560
And that's why violence does need to be tempered with reason.

2235
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:17,279
And I think and and Sorell does not like abandoned

2236
02:07:17,359 --> 02:07:20,039
reason or something like. That's why he's not he's not

2237
02:07:20,199 --> 02:07:22,199
He's not not only is he not an Ichian, but

2238
02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:23,760
he's not some he was. He was not some like

2239
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:28,239
anti rationalist, uh you know, uh like fu Cove the

2240
02:07:28,319 --> 02:07:30,520
write or something at all, you know, I mean that's

2241
02:07:30,560 --> 02:07:35,520
why uh, his issue with uh you know, is issue

2242
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:38,359
with Sobegates is that, like Cyberate, he's like, wasn't serving reason,

2243
02:07:38,680 --> 02:07:43,000
you know, rationalisms, logos, you know, it's it's something entirely different.

2244
02:07:43,079 --> 02:07:46,760
And you know that's why I, like I said, I'm

2245
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:48,640
not an expert at all in the priests of pratics

2246
02:07:49,000 --> 02:07:51,439
as sure as hell, I can't read Greek or anything

2247
02:07:51,479 --> 02:07:54,319
like that. But I do think I've got a pretty

2248
02:07:54,359 --> 02:07:57,800
decent understanding of Cirel annoying to Cirell and oing a

2249
02:07:57,880 --> 02:08:00,560
hiag girl like I read a you know, I read

2250
02:08:00,840 --> 02:08:06,000
the fragments are Clitus that I mean that do exist.

2251
02:08:06,119 --> 02:08:08,119
You know, I spend a lot of time with Xeno

2252
02:08:08,159 --> 02:08:12,560
fun and uh, there's nothing, uh, there's nothing anarchic about

2253
02:08:12,600 --> 02:08:16,399
what Cerell posits in like a coloaquial sense, you know,

2254
02:08:16,439 --> 02:08:18,199
I mean, yeah, there's he pertacts with some of the

2255
02:08:18,239 --> 02:08:22,880
same uh, some of the same intellectual heritage as like

2256
02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:26,159
actual capital at anarchist did like in his epoch. But

2257
02:08:26,239 --> 02:08:28,600
he's not he was not at all a guy like Ron.

2258
02:08:28,680 --> 02:08:30,800
He was not all a guy who you know, he's

2259
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:33,640
not at all some like criminally minded strange person or

2260
02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:37,399
some or some kind of a faeries outlier who you

2261
02:08:37,439 --> 02:08:40,840
know just uh, it just just identified like a path

2262
02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:44,079
to like revolutionary action. I mean that's the way people

2263
02:08:44,079 --> 02:08:49,079
have to mischaracterize him. I mean, Sorell's probably uh, he's esoteric,

2264
02:08:49,239 --> 02:08:51,439
like his whole body of work is. But those that

2265
02:08:51,560 --> 02:08:55,560
do actually have a deep understanding of a twentieth century

2266
02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:59,399
European intellectual foundations, they will to very directly attack Cerell

2267
02:09:00,840 --> 02:09:03,680
and and painted him as like what I just said, like, oh,

2268
02:09:03,720 --> 02:09:06,039
this guy was like you know, he was he was

2269
02:09:06,479 --> 02:09:07,960
you know he was he was he was something erst

2270
02:09:08,039 --> 02:09:11,319
Rahm type psychopath, but without the without the medals and

2271
02:09:11,359 --> 02:09:14,560
the war record and and uh and the body count,

2272
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:18,119
and it's not and that's a deliberate slander. I think

2273
02:09:18,119 --> 02:09:21,800
it's not what he was at all, you know it. Uh.

2274
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:25,319
So that's why there's an there's an enduring the value

2275
02:09:25,399 --> 02:09:28,880
to uh Sorell, not just to the political soldier. I

2276
02:09:28,880 --> 02:09:32,880
guess that's what I'm getting. Yet I even argue like

2277
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:36,039
kind of hyper modernists and worldly and like secularists as

2278
02:09:36,079 --> 02:09:39,199
Cerell was. I say that guys like the Iron Guard

2279
02:09:39,239 --> 02:09:41,560
and Kadriano who probably had like more in common with

2280
02:09:41,560 --> 02:09:44,159
Cerel and then what he identified as. Uh. I mean

2281
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:49,159
the kind of Eastern mysticism, uh that you know, the

2282
02:09:49,239 --> 02:09:52,720
Romanian Orthodox guys were into, Like obviously Cerell we have

2283
02:09:52,760 --> 02:09:55,319
like no use for that, but in terms of like

2284
02:09:55,359 --> 02:09:57,880
within their own kind of cultural paradigm, like what they

2285
02:09:57,880 --> 02:10:02,079
were trying to accomplish like that, the Currell probably would

2286
02:10:02,079 --> 02:10:05,000
have like looked approvingly on that more than more than

2287
02:10:05,039 --> 02:10:08,039
any kind of you know, inner inner war, like you know,

2288
02:10:08,159 --> 02:10:12,520
radical right movement at least I think so you know,

2289
02:10:12,680 --> 02:10:14,920
it's uh, and that's all about the Ctic was in Spain,

2290
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:19,520
like didn't they didn't they didn't go anywhere like they

2291
02:10:19,600 --> 02:10:21,520
I mean, like I said, those guys said guts and

2292
02:10:21,520 --> 02:10:23,359
they had heart, and they fought really hard, and I

2293
02:10:23,359 --> 02:10:25,920
think their sacrad lice should be honored. But I mean,

2294
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:27,960
is the reason why there is there's a reason why

2295
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:31,119
I kind of like the dullary Cudgillo Franco this this

2296
02:10:31,239 --> 02:10:36,359
kind of like reactionary uh like Cruk like went out,

2297
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:38,399
you know, I mean it's not It certainly wasn't because

2298
02:10:38,439 --> 02:10:41,000
of like his charisma or like his great mind or something.

2299
02:10:41,039 --> 02:10:45,880
It was because cynicalism, even if it is tempered by

2300
02:10:45,920 --> 02:10:51,279
a basic decency like in moral terms, it and isn't

2301
02:10:51,319 --> 02:10:54,760
just kind of this like orgiastic you know path like

2302
02:10:54,880 --> 02:10:59,039
orgiastic cathartic violence or something. It does. It does not

2303
02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:02,720
like lea out Asian for sustainable structures or for like

2304
02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:05,239
a new kind of like dialectic that's gonna you know,

2305
02:11:05,279 --> 02:11:08,439
build something in instead. I guess that was a point

2306
02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:10,960
we're coming up in the hour here, man.

2307
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll get let me get one more, one more question, yes, right,

2308
02:11:16,000 --> 02:11:21,520
So when it comes to violence, is the do you

2309
02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:24,600
think the aversion to violence in the United States? Is

2310
02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:30,119
that because of our political heritage, our Protestant heritage. Do

2311
02:11:30,159 --> 02:11:32,960
you think it's because of the culture distorters coming in

2312
02:11:33,359 --> 02:11:37,920
and you know, basically making it verboten or is it

2313
02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:41,119
a combination of both. Is it the culture distorters using

2314
02:11:41,159 --> 02:11:42,920
our Protestant heritage against us?

2315
02:11:44,079 --> 02:11:46,760
Speaker 2: America's got a very perverse relations to violence, And I

2316
02:11:46,760 --> 02:11:51,640
think about something younger kind of got into and stuff

2317
02:11:51,640 --> 02:11:54,159
like you know, and some of is like later and

2318
02:11:54,279 --> 02:11:57,319
some is like quasi science fiction novels had a lot

2319
02:11:57,359 --> 02:12:00,560
more social commentary, like like America's a place one of

2320
02:12:00,560 --> 02:12:03,399
the line people claim like they hate violence, but they

2321
02:12:03,439 --> 02:12:06,439
get all excited the idea of like people being sexually

2322
02:12:06,439 --> 02:12:09,840
tortured in prison. You know, like until recently, it was

2323
02:12:10,239 --> 02:12:14,159
you know an identified you know, quote human right uh

2324
02:12:14,399 --> 02:12:18,119
to a fanticide. Like there's this there's this mass homicide

2325
02:12:18,119 --> 02:12:21,319
machine in the Pentagon that just constantly murders thousands of

2326
02:12:21,399 --> 02:12:24,680
people for the most like ambiguous reasons, you know, like

2327
02:12:24,760 --> 02:12:28,000
aus it's currently doing to Russia, and people people like

2328
02:12:28,079 --> 02:12:29,920
cheer that on, like it's just like not only like

2329
02:12:30,439 --> 02:12:32,800
there was tolerted, Like they get excited about it, but

2330
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:34,720
then they'll turn around and to say that, like, you know,

2331
02:12:34,840 --> 02:12:38,920
violence is the most horrible thing we can imagine. They

2332
02:12:39,239 --> 02:12:41,880
you know, they but they don't don't really believe that

2333
02:12:41,920 --> 02:12:44,840
they've actually got no real respect for human life. But

2334
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:48,399
because they don't, it's it's it's a kind of a

2335
02:12:49,359 --> 02:12:51,520
it's it's it's a kind of it's it's kind of

2336
02:12:51,520 --> 02:12:56,439
milk coast aversion to uh, actual sovereign decisionism, like coupled

2337
02:12:56,479 --> 02:12:59,119
with a kind of a couple of couple with the

2338
02:12:59,239 --> 02:13:02,279
kind of like un manly like content for human life,

2339
02:13:03,359 --> 02:13:06,319
where you know that that that kind of like that

2340
02:13:06,439 --> 02:13:11,119
that kind of identifies, uh, you know, living things is

2341
02:13:11,439 --> 02:13:15,600
a commodities to be exploited just like everything else. I

2342
02:13:15,600 --> 02:13:18,840
mean that's the way I read it, but it's also

2343
02:13:19,119 --> 02:13:21,520
too like an ethical terms the way point the way

2344
02:13:21,520 --> 02:13:24,560
these like uh the way these uh like post war

2345
02:13:24,640 --> 02:13:28,680
liberals like John Rawls, they're they're only the eras like

2346
02:13:28,720 --> 02:13:32,840
Jeremy Bentham and like Bentham. Uh you know, the uh

2347
02:13:33,199 --> 02:13:37,119
the Enlightenment liberals and demisterra was always uh the people

2348
02:13:37,119 --> 02:13:41,000
that Demister was always savaging correctly. I mean they they're

2349
02:13:41,239 --> 02:13:43,640
they're whole there, you hope he is a pointless society,

2350
02:13:43,880 --> 02:13:45,600
you know, like we talked about before, like it's it's

2351
02:13:45,680 --> 02:13:48,640
it's the ideology the nursing home or like the luxurious prison.

2352
02:13:49,079 --> 02:13:51,560
It's a place like nothing ever happens. You know, there's

2353
02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:54,800
no value creation, there's no culture, there's no passion, there's

2354
02:13:54,800 --> 02:13:57,079
no love, there's no hate. It's like when people like

2355
02:13:57,159 --> 02:14:01,840
exist like fornicate or present masterbait more properly, you know,

2356
02:14:01,880 --> 02:14:05,159
like defecate and like and and and and uh and

2357
02:14:05,159 --> 02:14:08,279
and eat and sleep and like that's it. But it's

2358
02:14:08,319 --> 02:14:12,239
it's just wonderful utopia because like you know, nothing bad happen,

2359
02:14:12,319 --> 02:14:15,560
nothing quant unquote bad happens. I think it's uh, I

2360
02:14:15,560 --> 02:14:19,560
think it's the intellectual poverty of the enlightenment project, you know,

2361
02:14:19,640 --> 02:14:23,319
couple with that basically kind of see like like agents

2362
02:14:23,319 --> 02:14:28,479
sanility in terms of uh, in terms of the you know,

2363
02:14:28,520 --> 02:14:32,279
the the dominant bourgeoisie cultural string like dominant in terms

2364
02:14:32,279 --> 02:14:34,720
of its ability to like impose its view upon like

2365
02:14:34,760 --> 02:14:38,800
the culture as a whole. And yeah, it's obviously it's

2366
02:14:38,840 --> 02:14:42,399
you know kind of like the culture distorders. Uh, it's

2367
02:14:42,479 --> 02:14:44,720
it's a primary objective of there is the you know,

2368
02:14:44,720 --> 02:14:47,760
the kind of like defang like there the people identify

2369
02:14:47,800 --> 02:14:50,239
as like their mortal like enemies. You know. In one

2370
02:14:50,279 --> 02:14:52,359
way to do that is the is the kind of

2371
02:14:52,399 --> 02:14:55,119
you know condition people against you know, quote unquote violence

2372
02:14:55,640 --> 02:14:57,640
or like you know, conditionally to a tolerance for like

2373
02:14:57,640 --> 02:15:01,479
all kinds of horrible stuff. But you know, uh to

2374
02:15:01,720 --> 02:15:04,159
uh you know, to condition them away from the ability

2375
02:15:04,199 --> 02:15:06,920
to like apply violence constructively or in like you know,

2376
02:15:06,920 --> 02:15:09,960
a political capacity. It's a complicated issue when it's all

2377
02:15:10,000 --> 02:15:15,000
of those things, but it's uh without those conceits though,

2378
02:15:15,079 --> 02:15:18,680
like rationalism, Like rationalism can't bite anything that doesn't have

2379
02:15:18,720 --> 02:15:23,079
some like utilitarian you know, like very basically explicable purpose

2380
02:15:23,479 --> 02:15:26,439
like within its own kind of self referencing paradigm, So

2381
02:15:26,560 --> 02:15:28,680
like why would you care about anything enough to be violent?

2382
02:15:29,000 --> 02:15:30,920
You know, like why why why would you care about

2383
02:15:30,920 --> 02:15:33,479
redemptive action? Like why would you care about you know,

2384
02:15:33,560 --> 02:15:36,399
like writing injustice, Like why why would you care about heroism?

2385
02:15:36,760 --> 02:15:39,000
Like why would you care about like you know, uh,

2386
02:15:39,239 --> 02:15:42,000
massulain honor? Like none of those things matter because they

2387
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:44,800
don't have some kind of utilitarian end that like helps

2388
02:15:44,880 --> 02:15:47,439
us shit more efficiently or like eat more food or something.

2389
02:15:49,279 --> 02:15:53,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, they make the excuse that we have no problem

2390
02:15:53,359 --> 02:15:56,640
with violence as long as it's in it's in self defense,

2391
02:15:57,239 --> 02:16:00,560
and then they get to define what self defences.

2392
02:16:01,119 --> 02:16:03,119
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's like it's it's like a two hundred

2393
02:16:03,119 --> 02:16:06,399
and fifty pound like linebacker, like beating the crap out

2394
02:16:06,439 --> 02:16:08,359
of some like eight year old lady while screaming she's

2395
02:16:08,359 --> 02:16:09,600
trying to kill me. Like that's what.

2396
02:16:09,560 --> 02:16:14,359
Speaker 1: America is, well, and that's definitely that's definitely what the

2397
02:16:14,359 --> 02:16:16,199
culture distorts are well.

2398
02:16:16,199 --> 02:16:17,800
Speaker 2: I mean it's like it's like how, I mean, what

2399
02:16:19,199 --> 02:16:22,720
like you this idea like Vlander Putin is is like

2400
02:16:22,800 --> 02:16:27,399
a deranged mediacu. He doesn't want people pointing hypersonic missiles

2401
02:16:27,399 --> 02:16:30,720
at Moscow at range of three hundred miles. I mean

2402
02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:33,479
it's like, like America is deployed in something like one

2403
02:16:33,559 --> 02:16:35,920
hundred and seventy bases across the world. What if if

2404
02:16:35,959 --> 02:16:38,520
Russia deploys on its border. It's like this is like

2405
02:16:38,840 --> 02:16:42,239
a deranged act of aggression. I mean, it's like there's

2406
02:16:42,879 --> 02:16:45,680
it's one part like delusion and sinility on the part

2407
02:16:45,719 --> 02:16:49,239
of uh, you know, on the part of uh these

2408
02:16:49,319 --> 02:16:53,600
clowns in government uh since nineteen ninety two. But part

2409
02:16:53,600 --> 02:16:56,000
of it is I mean people are, yeah, people are

2410
02:16:56,040 --> 02:16:59,719
actually I think a lot of people like in these

2411
02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:02,600
kinds of managerial caadres, they're really like they have twos

2412
02:17:02,639 --> 02:17:05,079
some fucking stupid and like morally illiterate, like they really

2413
02:17:05,079 --> 02:17:07,159
believe that like how there, you're not let me punch

2414
02:17:07,200 --> 02:17:09,600
you in the face over and over again. Like it's

2415
02:17:10,200 --> 02:17:11,920
I I didn't realize that for a long time, and

2416
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:15,520
then I realized, like these people really are. They're they're crapists.

2417
02:17:15,520 --> 02:17:17,319
They're like moral creaman's and they're just like a lot

2418
02:17:17,319 --> 02:17:19,799
of we're just like fucking stupid, Like they're not acting

2419
02:17:20,600 --> 02:17:25,920
like Joe Biden, like Biden, they're not acting yeah, yeah, yeah,

2420
02:17:25,959 --> 02:17:28,399
Biden really is a fucking moron, Like he's like aside

2421
02:17:28,399 --> 02:17:32,840
from his uh, aside from whatever like organic mention issues

2422
02:17:32,879 --> 02:17:34,319
that they ran out half like the guy the guy's

2423
02:17:34,319 --> 02:17:37,280
are fucking idiots, you know, like it uh like like

2424
02:17:37,399 --> 02:17:40,680
Nancy Pelosi is like a subnormal fucking moron. You know,

2425
02:17:40,799 --> 02:17:44,239
like they're very rare exceptions. They're they're all like that,

2426
02:17:45,120 --> 02:17:50,280
you know, and it's there's outliers, but they you know,

2427
02:17:50,479 --> 02:17:52,680
they're kind of only in the game. A guy like

2428
02:17:52,719 --> 02:17:54,440
Mary and Paul is only in a game that's like

2429
02:17:54,479 --> 02:17:56,440
literally become kind of like a family business. I'm not

2430
02:17:56,440 --> 02:17:59,319
like putting shade on Randon Paul. He's a by the

2431
02:17:59,360 --> 02:18:04,280
only like he's not the only previous Paul. I I

2432
02:18:04,559 --> 02:18:07,799
I like it all these days. But but my point is,

2433
02:18:07,840 --> 02:18:09,760
like I think Head he had like another kind of

2434
02:18:09,760 --> 02:18:12,600
like path, the clout and money. I I don't think

2435
02:18:12,600 --> 02:18:15,959
he'd be hanging around Washington. I just don't. I Mean,

2436
02:18:15,959 --> 02:18:17,760
that's that's all. That's all other people talking on the

2437
02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:23,760
sociology of the managerial state, like, uh, there's not there's

2438
02:18:23,760 --> 02:18:28,760
some grand uh historical project. They buried that project. Notwithstanding

2439
02:18:28,799 --> 02:18:32,680
you know, whether it's world whether it's war, whether it's

2440
02:18:32,680 --> 02:18:36,440
World War two, or whether it's the code war, like uh,

2441
02:18:36,520 --> 02:18:39,000
you know, the point before like Elon Musk forty years ago,

2442
02:18:39,079 --> 02:18:41,920
he'd be like Jerry Pornell. He would have been you know,

2443
02:18:41,959 --> 02:18:44,799
heading up some pack and like working hand in glove

2444
02:18:44,879 --> 02:18:47,719
with the d O d on like SDI and stuff

2445
02:18:47,760 --> 02:18:50,079
like that. But like I guys like him, like they

2446
02:18:50,200 --> 02:18:52,680
want anything to do with garment these days, why would they?

2447
02:18:52,760 --> 02:18:57,719
Like that's this repository of like losers and like Weirdo's frankly,

2448
02:18:57,959 --> 02:18:59,639
you know what I mean that that doesn't matter.

2449
02:19:00,879 --> 02:19:03,520
Speaker 1: Like how people Definitely he's smart enough to take their

2450
02:19:03,520 --> 02:19:04,280
money though.

2451
02:19:05,959 --> 02:19:08,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's part of the game.

2452
02:19:08,840 --> 02:19:11,200
You know. It's like I I get people putting shit

2453
02:19:11,239 --> 02:19:13,120
on of Elons. There's something that seems like lose rich

2454
02:19:13,159 --> 02:19:15,799
about it. I Mean, the dude is he's an Afri connor,

2455
02:19:16,319 --> 02:19:22,159
a billionaire who's a genius innovator and he he he's

2456
02:19:22,239 --> 02:19:24,879
he's he's one of the only people who's talking about

2457
02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:27,799
truly fallacy and things, you know, like the Congress, the

2458
02:19:27,840 --> 02:19:30,559
space which, despite when people tell you, actually is important

2459
02:19:30,600 --> 02:19:34,200
on its own terms. So there's something like lose rich

2460
02:19:34,200 --> 02:19:36,520
about people that just deciding they hate Elon Musk. But

2461
02:19:36,559 --> 02:19:38,959
he but yeah, I mean the role he's in not

2462
02:19:39,040 --> 02:19:41,879
just his wealth, but because of like how that wealth

2463
02:19:42,000 --> 02:19:46,120
is kind of insinuated into things that touch and concern

2464
02:19:47,000 --> 02:19:53,680
you know, uh, like like you know, technology that at scale,

2465
02:19:53,840 --> 02:19:56,319
you know, the regimes relying upon. I mean, he's gonna

2466
02:19:56,360 --> 02:19:59,479
be like a political actor, okay with it. But the

2467
02:19:59,520 --> 02:20:02,000
reason why, like he doesn't comment like formal office. So

2468
02:20:02,079 --> 02:20:04,600
the reason why he's not you know, engage in like

2469
02:20:05,079 --> 02:20:08,040
think tank stuff is because, yeah, that the end of

2470
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:11,159
the Cold War brought an end to the ability of

2471
02:20:11,159 --> 02:20:14,399
of of the regime to attract none such as he

2472
02:20:14,719 --> 02:20:20,000
to uh their environs. Yeah. Well yeah, let's uh if

2473
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:22,200
you want to do a place, well that'd be great.

2474
02:20:22,239 --> 02:20:24,319
Man's up to you. And then we'll after that, well

2475
02:20:24,559 --> 02:20:26,440
we'll get back to the Cold War series and take

2476
02:20:26,559 --> 02:20:30,840
up uh Vina Vietnam era, like what next episode will

2477
02:20:30,840 --> 02:20:32,479
do whichever you want, like either of those.

2478
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:36,200
Speaker 1: I was thinking about jumping back into the Cold War

2479
02:20:37,000 --> 02:20:39,040
I kind of a few episodes and then coming back

2480
02:20:39,079 --> 02:20:41,040
into this because I think a lot of it will

2481
02:20:41,040 --> 02:20:44,040
cross over. I think we'll have what we'll actually even

2482
02:20:44,159 --> 02:20:47,680
generate content for the next surrel talk, especially with what

2483
02:20:47,719 --> 02:20:50,280
we're going to talk about in the next couple uh,

2484
02:20:50,360 --> 02:20:52,079
in the next few Cold War episodes.

2485
02:20:52,479 --> 02:20:54,399
Speaker 2: No, that would be great, man. Yeah, there's a lot,

2486
02:20:55,040 --> 02:20:58,559
there's a lot, there's a lot to there's a lot

2487
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:01,520
there with Vietnam and then then that that dovetails not

2488
02:21:01,559 --> 02:21:07,319
just with my research on this, on this Nuremberg International

2489
02:21:07,360 --> 02:21:12,319
International Jurisprudence manuscript and working on, but it, like the

2490
02:21:12,639 --> 02:21:18,520
Annams vi Atnaun's important in ways that not unlike World

2491
02:21:18,520 --> 02:21:22,399
War Two, is important understanding the current regime. I mean

2492
02:21:22,440 --> 02:21:26,239
not it's like a founding mythology obviously nothing like that.

2493
02:21:26,319 --> 02:21:29,680
But it changed things in all kinds of ways, and

2494
02:21:29,719 --> 02:21:32,360
that that really was like the hot battle field of

2495
02:21:32,399 --> 02:21:35,399
the Cold War and all kinds of like militarily put

2496
02:21:35,440 --> 02:21:38,639
it leap, I mean culturally it changed things. And we'll

2497
02:21:38,639 --> 02:21:40,639
get into all of that. But my point is like

2498
02:21:40,639 --> 02:21:44,399
it's not just some it's not just like a question

2499
02:21:44,440 --> 02:21:47,000
a trivia or some or something something that's like interesting

2500
02:21:47,040 --> 02:21:49,120
to talk about, like you know, it might be to

2501
02:21:49,159 --> 02:21:52,440
talk about kind of like you know, the you know,

2502
02:21:52,520 --> 02:21:55,760
some some kind of like long forgotten you know, war

2503
02:21:55,799 --> 02:21:58,239
ways by the British Empire or something like. It remains

2504
02:21:58,280 --> 02:21:59,959
really important is my point.

2505
02:22:01,559 --> 02:22:04,479
Speaker 1: All right, two plugs and we'll get out of here.

2506
02:22:05,479 --> 02:22:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can still find me on Twitter. I mean,

2507
02:22:07,600 --> 02:22:09,079
they screw with me a lot, but I don't think

2508
02:22:09,120 --> 02:22:11,159
they're gonna band me again. I think those days are over.

2509
02:22:11,360 --> 02:22:15,120
I mean, if they did well, I'm launching a YouTube

2510
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:18,040
channel just in a few days here, after the first

2511
02:22:18,040 --> 02:22:21,120
week in January, and I'll make sure everybody knows where

2512
02:22:21,120 --> 02:22:25,360
to find it. It's Thomas TV. Uh able to find it,

2513
02:22:25,639 --> 02:22:28,399
but I'll plug it like on Twitter, I'll plug it

2514
02:22:28,440 --> 02:22:32,440
on substack. I'll make sure people can find it. My

2515
02:22:32,479 --> 02:22:35,639
Twitter is at Tris Kelly and Jahad. The first T

2516
02:22:35,879 --> 02:22:39,760
is seven. If you search for Thomas seven seven seven,

2517
02:22:39,799 --> 02:22:42,200
I think you'll find it. But uh, you can find

2518
02:22:42,200 --> 02:22:45,399
me on substack at real Thomas seven seven seven dot

2519
02:22:45,440 --> 02:22:49,639
subsec dot com. I've been canceled from uh t gram,

2520
02:22:49,879 --> 02:22:53,040
which is a ship UH company. In my opinion, I

2521
02:22:53,559 --> 02:22:56,680
was a paid subscriber in a you know mind you

2522
02:22:56,719 --> 02:23:00,280
They welcome garbage like you know, hardcore pornography and like

2523
02:23:00,319 --> 02:23:03,280
really disgusting like boor stuff. But it's run by some

2524
02:23:03,399 --> 02:23:07,639
Zionist crowd, like and apparently like the crime of like

2525
02:23:07,719 --> 02:23:12,879
criticizing uh Somali of the Earls West known as Ukraine

2526
02:23:12,959 --> 02:23:16,719
as like a cancel orable offense. So I've got no

2527
02:23:16,879 --> 02:23:20,520
use for that. I wish people would. Uh. There's plenty

2528
02:23:20,520 --> 02:23:26,920
of other chat options popping up, including a substack itself. Uh,

2529
02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:30,719
you can join my substack chat for free. They it's

2530
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:32,559
it's a lot more user friendly than t gram. They

2531
02:23:32,600 --> 02:23:36,239
don't censor anybody, and we've got total control of it

2532
02:23:36,280 --> 02:23:40,280
because it's incident to my t gran, my subject account

2533
02:23:40,840 --> 02:23:41,600
and subjects.

2534
02:23:42,399 --> 02:23:43,959
Speaker 1: You need to have the sub you need to have

2535
02:23:44,000 --> 02:23:47,680
the substack app and on your phone in order to

2536
02:23:47,719 --> 02:23:49,319
get notifications for it.

2537
02:23:50,040 --> 02:23:54,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's dope and uh so far subtect

2538
02:23:54,239 --> 02:23:57,479
has never ever done anything to sensor any of my content.

2539
02:23:57,760 --> 02:24:01,719
And frankly, uh, people like Genuate generate a health lot

2540
02:24:01,760 --> 02:24:04,760
of revenue for them, and uh, I think they realize

2541
02:24:05,639 --> 02:24:08,000
which side they're uh bread as buttered on as it worse.

2542
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:10,520
I don't think that's gonna change, but please migrate to

2543
02:24:10,639 --> 02:24:12,840
sub stack. I I'm done with t Graham. I'm not

2544
02:24:12,840 --> 02:24:14,799
I can't a good conscience. I'm not gonna pay money

2545
02:24:14,799 --> 02:24:17,440
to people who cancel me. I'm not gonna utilize a

2546
02:24:17,440 --> 02:24:21,399
platform where people abuse me and I've gotten really disgusting

2547
02:24:21,399 --> 02:24:27,719
and awful communications from from these like Ukrainian sickos and

2548
02:24:27,760 --> 02:24:30,840
like other people. Man, like there's it just really grows stuff.

2549
02:24:31,000 --> 02:24:34,319
I mean, like I I cannot, I don't know, you know,

2550
02:24:34,680 --> 02:24:37,799
play murder or something. But this idea that like well

2551
02:24:37,840 --> 02:24:40,600
t gram kind of sucks but you know it's good

2552
02:24:40,639 --> 02:24:43,360
for other things. It's not a good platform, man, And

2553
02:24:43,399 --> 02:24:47,159
it's it's a repositive Malbourne spy Wars spywear. It's always

2554
02:24:47,200 --> 02:24:48,040
fucked up like.

2555
02:24:47,959 --> 02:24:50,360
Speaker 1: The user in or it's bought.

2556
02:24:50,440 --> 02:24:52,959
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, man, it's a ship hole and people I

2557
02:24:52,959 --> 02:24:54,920
don't know why people are like so attached to it.

2558
02:24:54,920 --> 02:24:56,319
It's like what do you what are you getting out

2559
02:24:56,319 --> 02:24:58,719
of this? But whatever, So yeah, that's no more. I

2560
02:24:58,719 --> 02:25:01,639
will never return there. But yeah, forgive the rant, but

2561
02:25:01,639 --> 02:25:06,239
that's definitely can find me. My My second novel, which

2562
02:25:06,280 --> 02:25:10,639
is the second Steel Storm novel, is gonna drop in January.

2563
02:25:11,079 --> 02:25:13,040
I hope you went asking what that, but you know

2564
02:25:13,079 --> 02:25:15,479
that that's all I got for no And thank you

2565
02:25:15,559 --> 02:25:17,920
very much everybody you throw all the kind feedback.

2566
02:25:20,079 --> 02:25:23,399
Speaker 1: This will be the first episode of the new year.

2567
02:25:24,120 --> 02:25:28,440
Oh thank you know, thank everybody for this previous year.

2568
02:25:28,440 --> 02:25:31,920
It's been absolutely amazing and just to say about Substack,

2569
02:25:32,319 --> 02:25:34,840
substack will be the only place that someone like you

2570
02:25:34,959 --> 02:25:36,639
or me will ever get a check mark.

2571
02:25:37,639 --> 02:25:44,479
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I remember, Yeah.

2572
02:25:43,360 --> 02:25:45,399
Speaker 1: I remember. I. I logged on and I looked at

2573
02:25:45,399 --> 02:25:47,120
my I looked at one of my posts and there

2574
02:25:47,159 --> 02:25:48,879
was a check market next to my name, and I'm like,

2575
02:25:49,879 --> 02:25:50,479
that's weird.

2576
02:25:52,239 --> 02:25:57,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's in some ways, the the market

2577
02:25:57,200 --> 02:25:59,319
is the corrective and and we we make a lot

2578
02:25:59,360 --> 02:26:01,360
of money for those people. Man, they make money because

2579
02:26:01,360 --> 02:26:05,319
of us. I mean they're not they're not. Uh, I

2580
02:26:05,319 --> 02:26:07,120
mean that's that that really is the bread and butter.

2581
02:26:07,200 --> 02:26:10,280
I mean, it's not a platform that draws advertising revenue really,

2582
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:13,200
I mean, yeah, so they I'm a huge fan of

2583
02:26:13,239 --> 02:26:16,479
substick man, I I really am. So yeah, please dip

2584
02:26:16,479 --> 02:26:19,680
into the substick ship. It's basically like the core of

2585
02:26:19,680 --> 02:26:22,399
guys and a few ladies, and we we appreciate them

2586
02:26:22,440 --> 02:26:27,000
being among us. Stop. Uh. It's basically like the t

2587
02:26:27,200 --> 02:26:29,520
Grand mob like basically migrated there. But there's still something

2588
02:26:29,680 --> 02:26:31,959
holdouts and I don't know if they're fucking massiveness or what.

2589
02:26:32,079 --> 02:26:34,280
It's like quite the freaking t gram man, It's bad

2590
02:26:34,280 --> 02:26:39,120
for you. Yeah, it's bad for you. But yeah again,

2591
02:26:39,159 --> 02:26:41,159
I can't thank you enough man, and I I'm really

2592
02:26:41,200 --> 02:26:43,680
stoked that people have been so excited about this, this

2593
02:26:43,680 --> 02:26:46,200
this series. And yeah, well we'll get into we'll get

2594
02:26:46,239 --> 02:26:49,120
into uh, we'll get into the Vietnam War next episode,

2595
02:26:49,159 --> 02:26:53,360
and then we'll get back to Sorel and reflections on violence.

2596
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:56,799
Speaker 1: So appreciated, Thomas.

2597
02:26:56,840 --> 02:26:57,200
Speaker 2: Thank you