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Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist

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Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The

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Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge.

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As always, you can email the show at radio at

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the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST,

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make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and

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of course to the premium version of our website as well.

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Our guest today is Mark Skousen. He is the eighth generation.

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I believe we'll get the full details on this, but

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he is a descendant of one of the greatest Americans,

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one of the greatest founders of this great republic, and

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Mark would argue the greatest American. Indeed, he does so

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in his new book of the same title, The Greatest

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American History's Most Versatile Genius, An Exploration of the life

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and legacy of Benjamin Franklin. Mark, thank you so much

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for joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.

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Speaker 2: Man, it's a pleasure to talk about my favorite ancestor.

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Speaker 1: I would say, so, you know, I think about the

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Kittle family tree, and we haven't fully explored it, but

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you know, we have explored it enough to be concerned

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about where it ultimatelys. But you have quite a descendant

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in Benjamin Franklin. Let's begin there. That has to be

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something that your family absolutely cherishes and certainly talks about it.

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Get togethers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, this was a long standing tradition in

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our family that we were somehow related to Benjamin Franklin.

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It was through my mother's side, who was from Pennsylvania,

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and going back we didn't know how many generations, but

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we just knew that we were related somehow. So my

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wife and I decided to do some genealogy work in

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the seventies, and we struggled because there was a missing

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link for our connection. But we discovered there was a

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private will that was published that we found in the

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American Philosophical Society that Franklin had established, and the story

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is of Ben Franklin's grandson, Lewis Bates, Sr. Who had

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two natural children. It said in his last will he

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gave he identified two natural children, now natural children meant

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back then illegitimate, and in fact one of them is

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Lewis Bates Junior. And that was the missing link, and

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so we were able to tie together our entire eight generations,

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which was really quite a cool discovery, and we broadcast

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it to all our family members that we actually found

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exactly how we were related. But I thought it was

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ironic because Franklin is actually famous for having an illegitimate son, William,

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and this tradition continued because William also had an illegitimate child,

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and we see Lewis Bates, the grandchild, also had a

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legitimate illegitimate child, So kind of reflective on Franklin's that

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old tradition that he was. I call him a ladies man.

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Others would say a womanizer, but he he actually one

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of the things I liked about Franklin is that he's

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very modern in the sense that he respected women's rights

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and thought that they were equal to him. And he

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had many wonderful intellectual, not just social relationships with women,

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both in America and in France.

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Speaker 1: He was a bit of a lothario, as the history dictates,

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as we have learned over the years, that is a

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It is interesting to me. That is a long line

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of distinguished illegitimacy, I have to say, And it's that's

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the interesting point, because this is, you know, this is

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a complicated man. This is a Renaissance man, certainly, a

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man who had dalliences, obviously a man who was not

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all that concerned.

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Speaker 3: About protection, although the idea of that in the eighteenth

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century was complicated as well.

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Speaker 1: But what to you makes Benjamin Franklin? There are so

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many facets here? What makes him the greatest American? Standing

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against Americans like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and a

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whole line of signers of the Declaration of Independence and

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those who engaged at the Continental Conventions.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are certainly many great men, and our founding fathers,

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founding mothers, if you will, I mean, they all played

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a very significant role and were great in a great generation.

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There's no question about that. What distinguishes Franklin from all

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the others, including Thomas Jefferson, is the sub title of

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the book. So the title is the Greatest American? Why?

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Because he's history's most versatile genius. By that wey I

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came up with a list of twenty two careers that Franklin,

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at one time or another had professionally and really was

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a remarkable came up with I mean, printer, postmaster, diplomat, governor, author, humorist, inventor, scientist,

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financial guru, fundraiser, military leader, delegate or legislator, clerk, economist,

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land speculator, club president, musician, city planner, Justice of the peace, banker,

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and university founder. I mean, when you come up with

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a list like that, you say, my gosh, that's I mean.

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Thomas Jefferson would be the second closest because he he

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had some eclectic interests as well, but you can only

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list four or five of careers that he had compared

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to twenty two for Ben Franklin. So these titles are

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not from me. They are from historians who have written

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that Franklin was in so many ways advanced for his

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generation and virtually all generations. So if you wanted to

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compare them, maybe Leonardo da Vinci or somebody like that

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in Europe would have these eclectic interests. But you know,

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you look at some great Americans like Thomas Edison or

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Elon Musk and what have you, they still have a

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hard time comparing comparing them to the incredible interests that

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Franklin had. And he was self educated. You know, here's

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a man who lived the American dream, went from poverty

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to riches in his lifetime through his own ability and

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skills and willingness to be self educated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about it. And you know, as you

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note an extremely busy, busy man, it gets us back

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to our original point. How the hell did he have

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time for his talliences? This guy was doing so much,

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you know, the inventor portion of alone is intriguing enough,

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is time consuming enough for Benjamin Franklin, who was, at

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his core, you know, a very very curious man.

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Speaker 2: He was.

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Speaker 1: A scientific mind of his times, but also at his

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core he was an entrepreneur. And you, as an economist,

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must very much appreciate that aspect of Benjamin Franklin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I had a number of blurbs done on

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the book, and one was by John Mackie, the former

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CEO and founder of Whole Food's Market, and he wrote

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a book called conscious Capitalism, and what he meant by

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that was that, in the case of Franklin, he was

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conscientiously trying to fulfill the needs of his consumers and

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did so well that he was able to retire at

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age forty two. But then instead of just collecting his

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interest and dividends, which in play golf all day like

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a lot of wealthy people do today, he engaged in

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civic duties. He established the first hospital, the first library,

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the established the University of Pennsylvania. He engaged in improving

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the city of Philadelphia, and then he went on to

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be the colonial agent represent his colony and four other

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colonies in London. Then he became ambassador to France, the

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first ambassador, came back and was a governor of the

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first governor of Pennsylvania, and then went on to be

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the going a delegate to the Constitutional Convention. So he

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had a remarkable career. But you know, he was a

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little bit that people said that he didn't really say much.

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He didn't speak that much at the Constitutional Convention or

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the Declaration of Independence. He only made one change to

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the Declaration of Independence. Let's see if you and your

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audience can figure this out. So fill in the blank.

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We hold these truths to.

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Speaker 1: Be self evident, of course.

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Speaker 2: Oh but that is not the Thomas Jefferson said, sacred

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and undeniable. We hold these two sacred and undeniable. Ekland,

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being a secular humanist, with his left hand, scratched out

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the words sacred and undoniowa and put above it self evident.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was, after all, originally an editor and through

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his life he was an editor, and that like it

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reminds me of Abraham Lincoln, you know, and how he

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approached his you know, first inaugural address and the flourishes,

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the beautiful flourishes as they were put in by Seward,

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but nonetheless they were more flowery than they were ultimately poetic.

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And Abraham Lincoln, same kind of thing. But Benjamin Franklin,

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you know, must have looked at that from his perspective

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as well, but also from the perspective of a longtime

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newspaper guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Although I think he was making

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just an editorial reduction from sacred and undeniable to self evident,

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but also making a point of his religious skepticism at

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the time. I will say one of the things I

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learned in writing this book, The Greatest American, is that

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Franklin's views on religion actually changed because he was a skeptic.

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He was a deist, I mean, he believed in God,

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but did not particularly He was not a churchgoer. He

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had his own liturgy. He was considered a skeptic an heretic,

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even by John Adams and others who complained that he

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didn't attend church on a regular basis. Nevertheless, at the

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end of his life he changed his views from adist

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to an active theist because of what he witnessed, where

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God intervened over and over again to assure the Americans

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they would win this revolution against the greatest military in

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the world, the British. So Branklin said at the end

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of his life that you know, God were governed in

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the affairs of man, and he asked that we have

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prayers in the Constitutional Convention. So it was quite a

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remarkable change in the attitude. So I actually think that Franklin,

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if he had to do it over again, would keep

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Thomas Jefferson's own phraseology, we hold these Jews to be

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sacred and undeniable. I think it's a more powerful phrase

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than self evident.

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Speaker 1: I do too, I think it and certainly captures the

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mood and the moment at the time, one of defiance

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but also one of humility. Knowing that this founding, this

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new Nason country, was going to need all the help

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it could possibly get and was a long way off

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from fulfilling that assistance. They were going to need something

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much greater than themselves, and I think the founding fathers

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understood that. So Franklin goes from God is clockmaker to

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God as though, as you know, the Supreme being interested

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in the affairs of men. How did he begin his life,

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because he certainly didn't begin his life as the Benjamin Franklin.

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We know he didn't begin it in Philadelphia that he

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is so associated with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he got started in Boston. He was born in

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Boston from a family of thirteen fifteen seventeen children, and

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that was from two wives, and he was with the

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second wife, so that he was a tense child of

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several generations. It's kind of an interesting story. But he

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basically very poor and became an apprentice to his older brother,

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James in a in a publication at the time, and

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he had falling out with his older brother and he

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didn't want to stick around for the seven year apprentice,

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so he ran away, and he poverty stricken, ran away

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and ended up in Philadelphia, and there he pursued printing

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again and became very successful at it, to the point

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where when he returned several years later to see the family,

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who was well dressed, he had gold coins in his pockets.

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James was extremely envious of his success, but Franklin was

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self educated and he only had a couple a few

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years of formal education and was a voracious readers. Is

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very much a key point that he always believed in

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the value of the printed word and became very much

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a part of that. So he was very successful, as

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it's kind of like the publisher of the New York

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Times in its day. The Pennsylvania Gazette was the most

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successful newspaper of its time. And then he put out

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the Almanac as well, which was an annual of publication

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that had all these great sayings and that you like

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a penny saved as a penny earned. This sort of

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thing became very popular, and he franchised his newspaper around

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the country, so he was able to retire at age

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forty two, and then pursued these civic interests, including being

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a military leader and a clerk for the the Pennsylvania Legislature.

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He was really quite an interesting person. He helped establish

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the Negro school in the area an early time period,

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discovered that blacks were just as smart as whites, and

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so his prejudice declined. One of the things I point

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out in this book The Greatest American, is that Franklin

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he owned slaves for a couple of years, a couple

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of slaves, not many, not like Jefferson or Washington, but

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he eventually gave up on slavery and realized that this

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was a major mark on our history. And he became

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the president of the first Pennsylvania Society to abolish slavery.

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So it's nice to see a founding father whose views

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changed over time and wasn't stuck in the past.

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you financially. Be informed. Check out the watch Dot on

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Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or

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wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and there certainly are some founding members who who

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went through such changes, but not many. Again, we have

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to look at history and you know, as a matter

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of people of their times, and that's what Franklin was.

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But obviously over a very long life his ideas about

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these basic tenant tenants of of the of humanity and

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of self governance, they they evolved with all of that.

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He retired at forty two. In that time period he

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was considered an older man, was he not? So he

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has he has all of this wealth that he secrued.

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He really is the story of, you know, of the

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American dream, the self made man. Does he at this

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time then he has the ability to pursue all of

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these different things. One of those interest lifelong had been

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in the field of the sciences, particularly in invention. How

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does he get to that point where you know, he

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becomes such a you know, a powerful part of where

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we are today, how we are talking today in this

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zoom call through the power of electricity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because he was really the first scientific American,

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if we can use that term. In fact, there's a

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book by that title, the First Scientific America, and it

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is the story of Benjamin Franklin his scientific contributions and

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starting with the Franklin Stowe but also the discovery that

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lightning was electricity, and he came up with certain words

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like positive and negative reaction, the battery. The term battery

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is his. He's considered one of the top scientists of

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his age, and he became so famous he won the

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Copley Medal in Britain, and when he went to France

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as ambassador, he was hailed as one of the great

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scientists of his age and was quite famous because of it.

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Bifocal invention, the stream of you know, going back. He

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went back and forth eight times across the seas, so

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he was not just enjoying the fair weather and so forth,

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but was noticing the gulf stream, how it was faster

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to go one way than the other. Things like that

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were really remarkable inventions. And he never patented any of

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his inventions, which is interesting because he could have made

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considerable amount of money, but he thought, no, this is

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It's kind of like Elon Musk who says, I don't

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patent any of my inventions and breakthroughs in Tesla. This

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is something we want everybody to use. And Franklin had

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a very liberal position when it came to his patents.

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Speaker 1: Such an amazing departure from where we are in America

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and believe me, Americans inventors have every right in the

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world to claim their intellectual property. We, of course, these days,

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have experienced a barrage of assaults in that intellectual property

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from one nation in particular. But it happens at every turn.

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Franklin said, I give this the science. He also gave

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himself eventually to revolution. He eventually gave himself to the

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formation the foundation of a new nation conceived in liberty

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and self governance. But he wasn't always He didn't begin

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a revolutionary, did he.

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Speaker 2: No, that's correct, he was. He considered himself a British citizen.

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And when he was colonial agent in Britain, he loved England,

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he loved Scotland. He just he enjoyed it far more

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than his own country. When he went back to Pennsylvania,

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he said, oh see, this is just this is nothing

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compared to the buzz that you feel when you're in

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a big city like London. And then when he went

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to Paris, he fell in love with Paris. And he

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was very much a global citizen in many ways. In fact,

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one time he said this following statement. And you can

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contrast this with the attitude that our current president has

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so Franklin said, our cause is the cause of all mankind.

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God grant us not only the love of liberty, but

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a thorough knowledge of the rights of man may pervade

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all nations of the earth, so that a philosopher may

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set his foot anywhere on its surface and say, this

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is my country. He was a very much globalist. He

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was an advocate, like Adam Smith, of free trade. He

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said no nation was ever ruined by trade, So he

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would have even though he was a diplomat, and he

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did engage and compromise, and he didn't believe in fair trade,

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not just free trade. So there are some elements that

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we can relate to. But I admire him for his

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attitude toward foreigners. He was not xenophobic like many of

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our leaders are today. I really admire Franklin for his

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love of country and love of humanity.

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Speaker 1: When did he become sold on the revolution? Because you know,

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that's the interesting thing about how we got to the

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Revolutionary War. As Franklin, you know, John Adams, George Washington,

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all of these others considered themselves citizens of England until

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that was no longer tenable, until that was no longer

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It was just such a corrosive and toxic relationship, to

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put it in the parlance of the day, that it

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could no longer continue. But Franklin didn't he argue for

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mediation and moderation early on.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in fact, he didn't really fight the Stamp Act initially,

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and he was heavily criticized for this, And then he

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realized that he made a major blunder, so he changed

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rather quickly and fought for the abolition of the Stamp

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Act and was successful in doing that. So he was

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reluctant to give up his citizenship of the greatest nation

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in the world, which was Britain at the time. However,

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as early as seventeen seventy one, he recognized that there

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was going to be a break with this beautiful ivory

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sculpture that had been built a British empire, and they

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were going to break from his early seventeen seventy one

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and then, of course, when the Hutchison letters came out,

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which was these letters from the colonial agent in America

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that spoke very negatively about Americans, Franklin had that revealed

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generally was he became pursua non grata. They cut off

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his salary of eighteen hundred pounds a year that he

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was earning as the colonial agent, so he was forced

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to leave basically the country before he was arrested and

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returned in seventeen seventy five, helped Common Sense be published

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and became a radical at his old age in the seventies.

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Can you imagine that? So I admire him for doing that.

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And he was old generation older than the other Founding fathers,

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Thomas Jefferson, George Washington is over. He was thirty years

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older than all of those people.

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Speaker 1: He's a radical in the sense of the sovereignty of man,

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of all of the things that we cherish obviously in

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this republic. Would he have been well, I guess that

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is a question for how radical he was at the time,

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at his age. Would he have identified with the radical

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left in America today, because some radicals have on the

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left have tried to claim him over the years.

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Speaker 2: Well, Frankly, one of the things that I like about

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the Founding Fathers is they didn't have that kind of

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divisive labeling that they did either you or for independence

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or against independence. There was nearly no left or right

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in that respect. But they did advocate the rights of man,

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and that included free speech, freedom of assembly, you had

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to you know, the Fourth Amendment. All those things in

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the Bill of Rights, Uh, came out of that era.

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So I don't think you can divide that into left

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or right today's rhetoric. In that respect, he was very

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much worried that America would eventually see a king take

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take a monarchy, would would would come back in the

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United States. He did warn about that, and I think

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we are everybody is concerned that our current president is

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using these executive orders to the extreme and Congress is

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not passing hardly any legislation. Franklin was a firm believer

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in the diverse powers and making sure that that there's

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a balance of power between the legislature and the executive

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and the judicial branch of government. That was one of

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the key points of the Constitution. So he would he

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would be concerned about what's happening today. The imbalance has

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taking place, for the executive is far more powerful than Congress.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is Mark Skousen, author of the Greatest

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American History's Most Versatile Genius. It's an exploration of the

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life and legacy of Benjamin Franklin. I would say this

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perhaps Benjamin Franklin would be concerned because he was there

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in the Constitutional Convention room in Philadelphia, and it is not,

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as you have mentioned before, not a apocryphal. He came

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out of the convention hall and when asked by Philadelphia

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woman doctor Franklin, what sort of government do we have?

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A republic if you can keep it, he meant absolutely that.

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And while he may have misgivings about executive orders, he

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would have misgivings about executive orders that were used very

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liberally during the Biden administration as well, and let's face it,

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multiple administrations over the course of history of this country's history.

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He would also be very concerned. I would assume of

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the power, the outsized power we've seen from the federal

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judiciary in trying to claim the powers that it arguably

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does not have when it comes to nationwide injunctions. What

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say you about that? And how Franklin would feel in

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this resistance movement against the current administration and president.

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Speaker 2: Well, my wife and I completed Franklin's autobiography. That's another

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thing we did prior to the publishing publishing at this book.

403
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So Franklin his original autobiography that's very popular. It's in

404
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all the bookstores he went up to seventeen fifty seven,

405
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and did not include anything about the American Revolution, or

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his ambassador to France, or the Constitutional Convention. And when

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we completed his autobiography and went through his writings and

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stuff like that, we came across two quotes that I

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think are I think representative of his views regarding some

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of these questions that you've asked. First, on domestic policy,

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he said, a virtuous and industrious people may be cheaply

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government governed. And so the question is do we have

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cheap government today? No, we have big government. And both

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Republicans and Democrats would agree that we have big government today.

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And it's not cheap, it's very expensive. And what does

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that say to about us as a virtuous and industrious people.

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I throw that out. The second quote is Franklin's foreign

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policy is also can be used in one word, and

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it's very similar to George Washington's Farewell Addrests, except it's

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one sentence. Franklin said, the system of America is commerce

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withal and war with none. Very idealistic, but one that

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again I find when I speak on Benjamin Franklin, no

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matter what your political persuasion, you're not in agreement. That

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really is the ideal. So I don't know what to

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say about the excesses. I think he would be critical

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of the excesses of both Republicans and Democrats, both Biden

427
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and Trump to I mean, I think he actually at

428
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one point he I actually advocated twelve presidents at the

429
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same time. I mean, they wanted to disperse power by

430
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having twelve of these men out there, you know, I

431
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mean it's crazy. I mean you go back to the

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Roman times where they had two leaders at the same time.

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Then we went to president vice president at the same time.

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Opposite parties, by the way, and now of course it's

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either one party or nothing. It seems like we're very

436
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party oridyent. And Franklin not really a fan of party politics.

437
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And he spoke out against the growth of the power

438
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of power and money playing excessive roles in this and

439
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so he's a firm believer in representative government. I wouldn't

440
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call it democracy because back then that was viewed negatively

441
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that you wanted an educated representative government. You don't want

442
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him a monarchy, but you also don't want pure democracy

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where the mob runs thing. So his was a balanced

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approach of educated individual representatives of the people elected from

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time to time, and he was very optimistic about America.

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He thought America had a great future. And in fact,

447
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on your on the American Eagle gold or the silver

448
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coins that are minted every year by the US Mint

449
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on the covers on the front part of his Lady Liberty,

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the statement in God we trust and the rising Sun,

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and the rising Sun is Franklin's symbol of America.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have often lamented that I was born during

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this time. I was a child born in the summer

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of the water great Watergate break ins. That's to give

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it some historical concept. But I've often lamented that I

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am a of this time. And it's amazing, not amazing

457
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to me, but interesting to me that Benjamin Franklin lamented

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that he was not a citizen of a far future time.

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I think about that. Can only imagine how much worse

460
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the music could be several centuries from now. But you

461
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said he was a modern man. He actually wanted to

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be part of the next modern age.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed he was. He felt bad that he had

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not been born two or three generations later, which should

465
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be nowaday period. So you can look at is the

466
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glass half full or half empty? He would love the

467
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modern gadgetry and technology and the standard of living in

468
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the internet. He would have a cell phone, He would

469
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be into AI, he would be into all of these

470
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wonderful things that we enjoy.

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Speaker 1: Those are interesting images. I have to tell you watching

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Benjamin Franklin on a small art phone and then you

473
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complaining at movie theaters that he's not getting a good reception.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, I think that would be the case. But I

475
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think he would be so fascinated with the speed in

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which we traveled. I mean, it would take a whole

477
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,320
month for him to go from Philadelphia to London. It

478
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,360
took that long. Instead we fly and get there in

479
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,400
five or six hours. But at the same time, he

480
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,880
would be moaned the size of government national debt, the

481
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,760
government intrusion in our personal lives. Those things he would

482
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,519
not be happy with. So on that balance, I'm sure

483
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:53,000
he would still be delighted to be alive today and

484
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:59,960
to enjoy the debates, enjoy the lifestyle, enjoy the lady

485
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:06,920
and their intellectual interests and not just their sexuality. I

486
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,440
think there's a lot to be said. He would like

487
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:14,719
the fact that all men are created equal. All men

488
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,840
and women are created equal, and now with their creator

489
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,280
with certain in leble rights. Among those are life, liberty

490
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,760
and the pursuit of money. No, I'm sorry, the pursuit

491
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:24,599
of happiness.

492
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,199
Speaker 1: Well, he experienced both obviously in his lifetime, and certainly

493
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,039
plenty of happiness with the ladies, as we had talked

494
00:37:33,039 --> 00:37:37,559
about earlier. Just a quick note on debt. So he

495
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:43,679
was not in agreement with another founder, Alexander Hamilton that debt. Again,

496
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,480
this has to be taken in context, but debt is

497
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:50,679
a blessing. He was not a big debt guy.

498
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 2: Yes, but he was actually very much in Alexander Hamilton's

499
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:03,599
camp in the respect that he he thought that this

500
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,719
idea of creating a national debt to take over the

501
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:14,679
state debt was a good idea, even though it was

502
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,239
near the end of his life. He favored a central bank.

503
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,840
He actually thought inflation, a little inflation, was good. He

504
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,880
was a paper money guy more than gold and silver,

505
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:35,199
and the reason for that is because Britain denied the

506
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,239
use of silver and gold, or they limited their use

507
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,119
in the colonies, and so he wrote a pamphlet in

508
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:46,320
favor of issuing paper money. But again, I like Franklin

509
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,960
because he changed his mind over time and when he

510
00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:53,679
witnessed the runaway inflation and not worth the continental during

511
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:56,920
that time period, the struggles he had in raising money

512
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,079
with the French because of inflation and the fact that

513
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,599
the Americans couldn't pay off their debts during the war,

514
00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:08,679
that was he changed his mind. He said, a little

515
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,519
inflation's good, but a lot of inflation is bad.

516
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,599
Speaker 1: Moderation. Once again, close with this the two part question

517
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:24,360
from what you have learned about your relative Benjamin Franklin.

518
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:27,719
As we get near two hundred and fifty years of

519
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,719
this great Republic, the question is what do you think

520
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,599
Benjamin Franklin would make of it? Would he be proud

521
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,320
of the country he helped create.

522
00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 2: Very definitely, despite all of our problems and so over

523
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,800
the fact that we've lived under the constitution that he

524
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,400
helped develop is still with us to this day, even

525
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,800
though it is not has been abused over the years,

526
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,079
and so forth. On net balance, he would be very

527
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:03,679
pleased with what we see and the compromises that you

528
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,719
sometimes have to make. Don't let the don't let the

529
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,199
perfect get in the way of the good, so to speak.

530
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:15,920
I think would be his, his his looking down on

531
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,039
the earth with some happiness about what we have seen

532
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:26,519
and how we still celebrate July fourth. And also there's

533
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:30,039
another great quote which I actually created. I put into

534
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:34,639
a little poster, and it says, it's incredible the quantity

535
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:36,559
of good that a single man can do when he

536
00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:40,239
makes a business out of it. And he's truly a

537
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,840
believer that business is really the key to success in

538
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,400
this life. I mean, does government create jobs not really, certainly,

539
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,960
not jobs that that are particularly productive and sober. No,

540
00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:58,760
it's it's business. And when business is successful, they create jobs,

541
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,079
they higher standard of living, they create an increase in

542
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:07,880
the quantity, quality, and variety of goods and services. And

543
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:14,079
really the ultimate fact is that Franklin was America's first capitalist,

544
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,760
if you will, and defended the capitalist system. He said,

545
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,440
we have this welfare program. The British had this welfare program,

546
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,239
and he said, who funded that, Well, wealthy business people

547
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:36,000
funded that. You need a successful entrepreneurial America to achieve

548
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:38,320
this level of success. And this whole idea of the

549
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,960
American dream is certainly one that Franklin espoused. They have

550
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:49,079
been the first to really realize the American dream. And

551
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,960
that's a great contribution. So there's so many ways that

552
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,400
Franklin is really a good example, and even in the

553
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,119
case of women, as we were talking about how he

554
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,400
talks about his errata in life, and he actually became

555
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,000
a devoted husband with his wife Deborah, and these stories

556
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:16,280
of him having relations and affairs and so forth with

557
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,079
other women that occurred before he got married and then

558
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,440
after his wife died. So while they were married, they

559
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,559
were very close to each other. And at the beginning

560
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:34,280
of my book Degree American, I dedicate it to my

561
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,239
own wife, and I say, and I quote from Franklin,

562
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,920
it is the man and woman united that makes the

563
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,280
complete human being. Together they are more likely to succeed

564
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:48,119
in the world. And I thought that was a really

565
00:42:48,159 --> 00:42:52,440
good summary of Franklin's views.

566
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:55,519
Speaker 1: I think so as well. Obviously, this is a man

567
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:59,800
who grew and changed and evolved in all of those

568
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:03,159
sorts of things, but he had some core principles that

569
00:43:03,199 --> 00:43:05,440
he long held on to. As you point out in

570
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:10,679
this book. I see him perhaps as a single man

571
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,639
in Europe, or a single man years before in his youth,

572
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,000
how fascinated he might be with the concept of tinder.

573
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:23,039
Speaker 2: But he.

574
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: Changed on that front, as he did with his faith

575
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:34,880
and with his spirituality and his religion. Over time he evolved,

576
00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:37,840
as you mentioned before in that and this is what

577
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,840
I do know as a man of faith, is that

578
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:47,920
America is America because of Benjamin Franklin. In fact, I

579
00:43:48,039 --> 00:43:52,440
believe God gave us Benjamin Franklin, among others, at a

580
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:56,239
very critical juncture in the creation of this country, and

581
00:43:56,519 --> 00:44:00,320
I think your book reflects that very strongly. Thank you

582
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,199
so much for sharing the journey of writing the book

583
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,280
and the book itself well.

584
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Matt. It's been a real pleasure.

585
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,880
And as Franklin always signed off, his name, b Free Franklin.

586
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:17,039
Speaker 1: Absolutely and we do as well. Thanks to my guest today,

587
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:22,280
Mark Skousen, author of the greatest American History's most Versatile Genius,

588
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:27,039
An exploration of the life and legacy of Benjamin Franklin.

589
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:30,159
You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.

590
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,480
I'm Matt Kittle, senior elections correspondent at the Federalists. We'll

591
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,400
be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of

592
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,599
freedom and anxious for the frame

593
00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:51,119
Speaker 2: Right