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Speaker 1: Well, Grant, I picked the Nuggets to beat the Clippers

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in five games. Denver maybe look like a pool, but

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I had built up goodwill. I picked up to win

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the title. Winde went else did and they went ahead

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and won in twenty twenty three. I also picked up

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in twenty twenty four. That didn't work out so well

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for your guy here. They now faced the Oklahoma City Thunder.

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Let's go through as our narratives, our tactical questions. Let's

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begin there before we get the predictions and X factor.

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So tactically, what are you looking at with this series?

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Speaker 2: A couple of things for the Thunder. I wonder like

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they've gone with the two big looks. I think that's

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really interesting. It's just like you almost have to have

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Hardenstein out there just for the size against the Jokic.

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But I do wonder how much we'll see Chet at center.

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Looks that really strained Denver's defense and force Jokic to

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either just like you know, pretend to guard a perimeter

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player or actually guard a perimeter player, depending on who

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the Thunder put out there, and have like major help

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responsibilities too. If you can get away with Chet guarding

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Jokic for long stretches. I think that really really benefits

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the Thunder, Not that they're gonna need a lot of

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benefits probably, but that's that's something I'm interested to see

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if if they try they being okay, see just to see, like,

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you know, do you or do you? And if that

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doesn't work, do you then as the Thunder have to

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turn to some more like gimmicky stuff against Jokic when

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Hartenstein's not on the floor.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of had the same question with just

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like how much of the dual big stuff are you

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gonna see from Oklahoma City and the Thunder again regular season?

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It's only a twenty seven minute sample size eleven point

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five net rating with Chet and Hartenstein against the Nuggets

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when at least two of Jokic, Russ, and Aaron Gordon

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are on the floor. And I'm just curious with depending

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on how much Denver utilizes Russ, do you think that

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makes it? Will that convinced the Thunder maybe sometimes want

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to go to more of the dual big looks because

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that's someone in theory. Yeah, if you have Chet, it's

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gonna be Hartenstein. You can put Chet on Russell Westbrook

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and kind of just float around out there, like, that's

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I'm curious to see if they would go with that

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or if they viewed those looks, especially if Aaron Gordon

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isn't on the court, Is that their opportunity to say, no, hey,

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like let's let's have our one big let's have our

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one big setup going right now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and this isn't this wasn't my tactical pick

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for Denver, but I think we got to talk about

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it now. Is like is this a Russell Westbrook series

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at all? Like can't like if you can guard Russ

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with Chet, which turns Chet into just a Rover, like

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good luck, like you just that's just.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I I and like the fact.

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Speaker 2: Is Denver sort of has to play Russ and that's

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a huge that's a huge problem because you're just the

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giveth and take it the way of it all. Like, yeah,

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I hadn't really thought about that one, but I think

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that has to be addressed.

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Speaker 1: Me.

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Speaker 3: I hope that wasn't your specific one.

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Speaker 1: Well, also off of the follow up one on this

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is then for Denver, Christian Brown on Shakos Alexander, like

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that's just done, like lock in on that for the

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most part, What is the best option to go against

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J Dub. And I've watched back some stuff and it's

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we saw MPJ, we saw Russ, we saw Peyton Watson.

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Of course, I don't like what is I think when

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you're looking at okay, what MPJ brings you offensively that

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you want him on the floor so long as the

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fact that he's playing right now basically with one arm

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is incredible. Yeah, and so do you want him to

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be You probably don't want him in situation that we

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also have to you need him for the three point

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the scoring, and then he's gonna find some time on

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J dub. And now I'm thinking about it, just does

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it feel like a Russ is gonna have to be

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on Jay Dubb? Then we saw some of it during

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the regular season, and the thinking here would be as

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untrustworthy as Russell Westbrook is on the offensive end. It

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feels like Peyton Watson is more of a wild card there.

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So unless you're gonna like and you're not gonna want

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Aaron Gordon doing any of this, maybe some Jamal Murray,

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but like this is I'm just I'm going through the listen.

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I don't know who the ideal like And it's not

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all about the single matchups. I get it, but it's

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just Christian Brown lock in on Shae and then it's okay, well,

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like what are you doing with JDub?

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Speaker 3: So mine's related?

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Speaker 2: Mine's mine was just kind of like, is Aaron Gordon

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gonna spend more time on Jadab or Chet? Cause like

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you definitely don't want I don't think you want MPG

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or murray on like either of those guys as like

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to the extent you can limit that, I don't think

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it's possible to really limit that. You're gonna have exposure

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with one of them defensively, So do you decide.

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Speaker 3: As the nuggets?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 2: We just have to have Gordon on Jadab because then

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it's gonna force a third person to do more of

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the offensive initiating, assuming Brown can hang with SGA a

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little bit.

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Speaker 3: And maybe that's how.

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Speaker 4: Denver like makes the thunder offense like gum up a

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little bit.

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Speaker 2: Is if you just use your other your only other

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really good defensive player on Jadab But like then it's

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so you're guarding Chet with who like.

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Speaker 3: Is that MPG? I don't like.

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Speaker 4: I don't love that. Do you try Russ out there?

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Speaker 2: Do you use murray on Chet somehow like I just

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invite you know, Duckins and that kind of thing. It's

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just Denver just doesn't happen. The fact that we're you're

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bringing up Russ as like maybe you're gonna have to

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use him defensively, that's that's a that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even what they definitely they showed another level defensively

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against the Clippers, for sure. I even thought, I mean

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this is more so thunder related though you were mentioning

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if you can have Chet Rome. We saw Harden on

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Jokic in that Clipper series. We've seen JDub defense centers

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in the past. Is it is that like a misallocation

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of resource if you're like, okay, we're when you want

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to go one big and Yokic is on the floords like

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we're gonna put Jdubb on Jokich and Chet like he

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can be on Aaron Gordon or maybe it's Russ.

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Speaker 2: That's a great wrinkle, that's a fun like because yeah,

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I mean you could if you if you get it,

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who better than Okac to just have a shooting guard

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guard Yokic and figure it out. Because they had to

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play that way for a month or whatever it was

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I mean, yeah, that's another got The Thunder have so

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many This is the the through line of this series

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for me is like the Thunder have so many options

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that like they they can approach this so many different

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ways tactically, and I don't feel like Denver has nearly

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that luxury. Denver can do like two different things and

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it's like I'm not even sure about one of them.

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Speaker 1: Who is your excuming? What are you watching narratively from

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this series? What's the biggest storyline?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 2: For the Thunder side of it, it's this is gonna

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be the case for a lot of the high seeds

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that have advanced. But it's like, can you take down

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the best offensive player in the league in Jokic and

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and sort of like add a little tick mark, you know,

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next on the resume of like historic season, one of

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the best defenses ever, Like all these wins knocked Jokic

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out without much trouble.

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Speaker 3: Like then you're.

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Speaker 2: Starting to build a case as you know, for we're

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gonna have to talk about the Thunder if they go

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all the way and you know, then beat Boston or

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Cleveland or whatever in the finals, as like, yeah, this

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team actually was just one of the best teams we've

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seen in however many you know, like just knocking Jokic

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out would be a huge point of validation.

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Speaker 1: Also, just did they make like did the Isaiah Hartenstein

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an acquisition and of Like, However, this is a series

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where for that the thing that I don't I think

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people be conditioned to look at and it's not when

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Shay's off the floor, it's just the secondary offense even

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if he's on the floor. I don't know, Like this

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just doesn't feel the series where I would glean enough

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from it, because what can the Nuggets do that's really

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gonna throw shake gild Alexander. I think the Memphis probably

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like might have thrown more things at him. Then we'll

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see Denver do where it feels like they're gonna be

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very locked in on one or two guys. We'll have

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to be the focus there. So that is something to watch.

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Like he Jdubb doing a lot better at creating for

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himself getting into the lane, Like when he gets in

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the lane that some of the change of pace and

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direction stuff there that matters. But it's just like this

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not the stakes don't feel low for the Thunder if

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they lost this series and would have to look inward

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a lot. It feels more so I look at kind

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of just okay, like did did they make the moves

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that like got them past the team that was bigger

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and could play physical? Like this is the team you

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did that? Like even more so than a Memphis it's

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it's the Denver, it's the Minnesota's.

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Speaker 2: No, that's a great point, like that the Thunder had

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to do what they did to play in series like

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this against you know, to the extent there are players

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like Jokic, you know, they've they went out and made

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the effort to like equip themselves to handle that kind

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of thing. H So it will be a referendum on

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those movies. I think for Denver, like this is the

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challenge of like the Thunder might just not be a

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fair measuring stick because they might be historically great. But

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if you go out quickly or it's pretty clear that

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you just like this Denver roster, even with Jokic, and

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even if Murray does play well, like just doesn't have

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the options or the answers to beat a team like this,

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then it's like, well, what changes can we realistically make,

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you know, in addition to figuring out who's going to

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be our head coach next year, and who's going to

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make the you know, front office decisions like do you

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start thinking about Gordon or MPG trades or whatever like.

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But you have to view all that through the lens

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of like, well, like who could have beaten the thunder?

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And the answer might just be nobody. So like the

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push and pull of that is going to be interesting

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for me.

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Speaker 1: I do think, so I look at it the same way,

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but I'm also looking at it from the perspective of,

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all right, well, how valuable are Peyton Watson and Christian

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Round really? And I focus more so I defensively, sure

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you might learn stuff about them, But on the offensive end,

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when you're looking at guys that are coming up on

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extension eligibility, Christian Brown shootings under twenty percent from three

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in the but not great by right, and so how

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much do you pay him in an extension? And is

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it time to consider well, if you're gonna make if

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you're moving one of the bigger contracts as standalone value,

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I don't know that it has a ton. But now

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if you say, all right, like we're willing to move

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one or both of these guys, like that changes a

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lot of your options, not advocating for it necessarily, but

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I do think like this is kind of a series

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when you're looking at some of the stuff that the

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Thunder might pull defensively, or maybe even some of the

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lineups that they run out there, where this might teach

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us a lot about well, how much should Denver value

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those two young guys specifically moving forward? Yeah? Good one,

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what is your X factor for let's go with Okay?

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Speaker 2: See, I mean it's just that I think my whole

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lead up to this has been like, I don't know

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if there's a guy that's like make or break for

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them that I don't know what I'm getting. I guess

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as we've talked about it, I would lean towards Jalen

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Williams because one, he theoretically should be test, you know,

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tested as an offensive creator. We've we've said plenty of times,

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as long as he's out there with one of the

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good bigs, the offense is fine. But I think that's

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going to be a pressure point.

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Speaker 3: And then the.

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Speaker 2: Potential to play like gimmicky defense with him guarding Jokic,

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I think is fascinating. So it can he handle that?

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Is that a viable like five minute strategy? Per game

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for then for for okay, see, and if it's not,

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then you have to like kind of readjust who's gonna

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be guarding Jokic. So I think it's him, but it's

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it's hard to find one for the Thunder who's yours.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm just gonna go with Isaiah Hartenstein because

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it is hard to find one for the Thunder because

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he'll determine maybe, well, how many dual big minutes are

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we getting and what does he just look like defending

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Nikole Jokic? Can he stay out of foul trouble because

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you know, even if he stays out of foul trouble

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like this is Jet doesn't have the body type to

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where you want to see him play this that matchup

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in high volume.

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Speaker 3: Right yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think actually the odds are if chet Is is

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the guy assigned to Jokic, it will just be as

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part of a gimmicky like you know, fronting and doubling

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from behind kind of thing, because I mean, Jokic will

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just put him in the basket right like that.

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Speaker 3: That that feels like.

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Speaker 2: The Thunder don't have to give like a like a

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soft target like that. And Chet's like someone who we

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both think might win Defensive Player of the Year at

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some point, but it's not because he like holds up

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in the post against three hundred pounders.

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Speaker 1: Right, and we're just obligated. Aaron Wiggins is always, He's

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the forever, always who's your X factor for Denver?

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Speaker 2: So I went MPJ because I think he's gonna because

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of the way the Thunder play defense, and because of

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how tiny the windows to score are, Like he just

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has to be like a hot potato, like quick trigger

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every the second year Open, it's got to go up.

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And he's got to be like a major spacing threat,

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and that has to be guarded, like, you know, nobody

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gets the Steph Curry treatment, but like you have to

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face guard him, you know, or you have to trail

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him everywhere.

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Speaker 3: You can't help off of him. If he can be

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like that.

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Speaker 2: And the injury makes it hard, He's just not someone

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that's gonna create anything, I don't think against any of

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the Thunders defenders. So MPG just has to be like,

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you know, making five, six, seven threes more than once

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and has to be a massive threat because and if

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he's not, I just don't I just don't know what

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Denver does for a reliable offense.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good one, but for variety's sake,

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I'll just go with Peyton Watson. It's how he doesn't

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play a ton versus the Clippers, and in theory, that's

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a team and it felt like he maybe should have

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played more against What does that look like against the

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thunder who like they don't necessarily play ultra fast, but

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they can and they're physical and sometimes they're gonna play small. Yeah,

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and if you mentioned MPJ and then the shoulder issue,

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like if he does if he's not able to hold

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up defensively, do you want him on the court. And

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if he's not well, then Peyton Watson's like a name,

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like if you're gonna throw him in or do you

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want Peyton Watts Peyton Watson on the court to help

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insulate Michael Porter Junior defensively, I'm curious to see what

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his usage looks like him is. That's why he's an

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extractor for me, because I honestly have no idea how

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much he's gonna play against.

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Speaker 3: Okay, see, just just another one real quick.

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Speaker 2: This might just be tactical too, but like if Caruso

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can just blow up the the Murray Jokic like hand

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off screen game.

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Speaker 3: Then it's like Denver might score fifty points a night.

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Like they're just like if he can, cause I don't know,

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I maybe Dort.

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Speaker 2: You might even say Dort could do some of this too,

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if he just refuses to be screened, Like if if

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you short circuit any of the two man Murray Jokic stuff,

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I just don't know where the the you know, Jokic

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may just figure it out, but like that's that's like

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almost fatal.

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Speaker 4: It seems like for Denver, what's your prediction?

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Speaker 2: So I think the last series I picked the Nuggets

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because of like Jokic period, and you know he'll figure Like,

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like I just said, he'll.

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Speaker 3: Figure it out.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna go thunder in, I'll go thunder and six.

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Speaker 1: I just I just like I think.

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Speaker 3: The Thunder overwhelming. I think their defense is so good.

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Speaker 2: They're they're so they can be so tactically diverse if

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they want to, And it's like, who are you picking on?

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There's no half the time we're doing series previous, it's like,

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oh what about this weak point? Like okay, well who's

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the Thunders? Who are you going at on the Thunder?

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I just I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go thunder in five because I think that

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there's a real chance. And this is not I was

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probably two down on the Nuggets entering their Clipper series,

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and they did like Jamal Murray the forty Burger, like

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coming up bag there, like they did a bunch of

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different things. I think that we're gonna look back that

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there's a real chance. And I say this with all

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due respect to the Cavaliers and the Celtics, and I

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did say this about the Celtics at the end of

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last year, and we realized that we just overthought like

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this entire fucking exercise. I haven't done it before, yep.

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And this team is so good, so deep, so versatile,

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and in theory, they don't have like a weakness. Maybe

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it's the three point volume, but Chet just gets them up.

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And then it used to be the secondary offense and

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it's well, you have Hartenstein, NJ. Dubb and Chet and

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now the shake Gildes Alexander lists minutes. They just don't

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they don't need to. Well, I guess against Memphis they

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existed a lot, but that's a different that's a different

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reason why they existed a lot. And so I really

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just think that I'm tended to go six like you did,

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just because I have all the respect in the world

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for Jo Kich and Murray, and like, this team's like

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the Nuggets too. There they've punched back when their back

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has been up against the wall. Here I wrote them

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off leading into the Clipper series. I just firing your

356
00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:28,360
coach that close to the end of the season and

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you're your lead front obviously executive, It just felt like

358
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that team would be in shambles. Nicole Yaku is the

359
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greatest basketball player live. The Thunder just have It's not

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that they just have more good basketball players, because I

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think that you could get it's they just have more

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players and more more optionality to the way that they're

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able to carry themselves. And I think that's going to

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be the ultimate difference here. And look the things that

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I'll say during the non Hartenstein minutes, the things that

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they might be able to do to Yo Kitsch defensively,

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we didn't really talk about that there. They might be

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the people that want Jokic to be bad on defense

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or say like, oh, like you could like he can't

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do this. This is the team that I think could

371
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maybe exploit him a little bit and make it look

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more egregious than it actually is.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's a great possibility of that. I'm

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glad you're having that that overthinking it thing with the Thunder,

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because I even it.

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Speaker 4: Was Memphis, so like, okay, what are we really gonna learn?

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Speaker 2: But it's like you just stack that series up against

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the whole season and what we kind of maybe thought

379
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going into the year, and it's like I have that

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00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,039
exact feeling of like I kind of think the Thunder

381
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,240
have some like inevitable vibes, right.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's they ranked fifth, this is per b

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ball indeck and like the total amount of value lost

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to injury this season, and they just still ran the tables.

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So it's just there's just all these indicators that are

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plotting towards the Thunder championship favorites, and there's just no

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00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,240
one's gonna beat them. I think I like Boston or

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Cleveland would be a fun matchup either one of the finals,

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but the Thunder going to be There's you couldn't talk

390
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,519
to me about the other Western Conference semi finals. I'm

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00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:02,080
gonna pick the Thunder to make the finals if I

392
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had to do it right now, and I'm curious what

393
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,480
a loss in this series would mean for especially if

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00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:09,880
it happens in four or five. And it's not like

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I guess at the point differentials kind of like Nick's

396
00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:14,200
piston Z and it's oh, like okay when like, well

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that series less longer of course, So thunder in five

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from me.

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Speaker 4: All right, thanks everybody for listening, for watching.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you're your rated review subscribe five stars and

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00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:25,279
many thumbs up.

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Speaker 3: If you're watching this on YouTube, believe.

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00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:29,039
Speaker 2: The comments there. Let us know what your thoughts are.

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Join our discord links for that.

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Speaker 3: In the YouTube and podcast description.

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Speaker 2: Close It's always been a Shout with Franklin Lacina and

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00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:36,000
an apology to Jared Allen