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<v Speaker 1>Your summer pocket knife of information. That's the only way

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<v Speaker 1>to stay in for fifty.

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<v Speaker 2>Five karc the talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>Eight oh five Here fifty five cars de talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Wednesday, the return of Judgjennval Paula Tano at the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom of the hour.

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<v Speaker 2>He's back from vacation.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll sit here from Pimlin County Prosecutor Mark Tokulby did

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<v Speaker 1>a great job getting this miserable pervert convicted child molester.

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<v Speaker 1>He was ninety three counts to get the details on that.

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<v Speaker 1>What a wonderful coup or victory that is for the

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<v Speaker 1>entire community. And elections have consequences and sometimes we make

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<v Speaker 1>great choices. One of the great choices the city made,

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<v Speaker 1>said Judge Betsy Sunderman. She was elected the Domestic Relation

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<v Speaker 1>Court in November twenty two. Prior to that, served as

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<v Speaker 1>a Hamilon County Probig Court magistrate for five years on

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<v Speaker 1>Sinceei City Council for two years. You all remember that

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<v Speaker 1>under She's also an assistant Hamilton County Prosecutor for thirteen

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<v Speaker 1>years in the Juvenile Dependency drug forbaritsure municipal in appellad divisions.

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<v Speaker 1>Lots of experience and a woman who knows what she's doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome in the Morning Show, Judge Betsy Sunderman. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure to have you on today.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me on.

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<v Speaker 1>I always enjoy talking to you. So the summary of

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<v Speaker 1>our subject matter in three simple words. Curfews don't work. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Can I just guess that maybe that's because no one

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<v Speaker 1>enforces the curfew. The police don't bother picking people up

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<v Speaker 1>that violate curfew because it's a waste of their time

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<v Speaker 1>because nothing ever happens to the ones they pick up.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Judge Sunderman. That's why we've got you on.

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<v Speaker 2>Today, exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So, about three weeks ago, I was in Indianapolis with

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<v Speaker 3>my little girls. We went to see Wicked, the show,

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<v Speaker 3>and there was a lot of crime that night right

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<v Speaker 3>around our hotel where we stayed, and juveniles were shooting

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<v Speaker 3>at each other. And Indianapolis put in a juvenile curfield

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<v Speaker 3>and they started enforcing it right away, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>citing juveniles, citing their parents. And then about a week later,

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<v Speaker 3>Cincinnati had a juvenile curfield and I just knew it

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<v Speaker 3>would not be enforced the same way. And I have

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<v Speaker 3>been correct. So our city has a tendency to create

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<v Speaker 3>these laws so that people feel good. So people like me, Oh,

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<v Speaker 3>I feel good because now they're taking care of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Now they're creating a law, right, But then by not

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<v Speaker 3>enforcing it, then the people who don't like the law

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<v Speaker 3>are happy. So it's a it's a win win for

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<v Speaker 3>the city. People feel good on both sides. Right. Last

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<v Speaker 3>week there was a press conference. The city manager said,

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<v Speaker 3>we're considering.

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<v Speaker 1>Enforcing the the operative word enforcing.

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<v Speaker 3>So she said, you were considering it, So that means

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<v Speaker 3>that they weren't enforcing it before, right, So why create

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<v Speaker 3>a law that you're not going to enforce, So she said,

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<v Speaker 3>we're considering enforcing it. She said, our plan is that

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<v Speaker 3>if the police find a juvenile out after curfew, they're

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<v Speaker 3>going to bring the juvenile to a curfew center.

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<v Speaker 2>And she said the curfew center.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to exactly say where it is, but

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<v Speaker 3>it's with one of our trusted partners, so I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know if it's the rec center or what.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea. And then once the kids.

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<v Speaker 3>Are brought to the curfew center, their parents are called

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<v Speaker 3>and then the parents are asked to come pick them up.

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<v Speaker 3>I can only imagine a lot of the parents would

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<v Speaker 3>be very wary getting a call from a police officer saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>we'd love to talk to you about your child who

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<v Speaker 3>was breaking the curfew. I'm guessing a lot of the

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<v Speaker 3>parents would not want to go to that meetup, right.

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<v Speaker 3>I also know from talking to police officer friends of

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<v Speaker 3>mine that they've been told that even if they can't

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<v Speaker 3>get a hold of the parents, they're supposed to release

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<v Speaker 3>the juvenile. And so what's the point of that, right,

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<v Speaker 3>So there's absolutely no consequence. So just reminds me of

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<v Speaker 3>when I was on city council during COVID and they

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<v Speaker 3>made a mask mandate in the city. Remember that, Yeah, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>so they made a mask mandate and I had a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of questions about it. I said, okay, what happens

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<v Speaker 3>if someone goes to a restaurant and they refuse to

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<v Speaker 3>wear a mask?

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<v Speaker 2>And in the.

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<v Speaker 3>City said, well, this will just empower business owners to

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<v Speaker 3>tell people to wear a mask. And I said, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>and then what if the person still refuses to wear

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<v Speaker 3>a mask And they said, oh, well, I guess the

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<v Speaker 3>business owner could call the health department and then the

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<v Speaker 3>health department could tell the person that they should wear

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<v Speaker 3>a mask. And I said, Okay, then what happens if

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<v Speaker 3>the person won't wear a mask? And they said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>they said, I guess we could send someone from the

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<v Speaker 3>health department to the restaurant and then they could tell

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<v Speaker 3>the person face to face.

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<v Speaker 2>To wear a mask.

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<v Speaker 3>And I said, okay, so then what happens when the

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<v Speaker 3>person doesn't want to wear a mask? And they said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>we don't want to find anyone, we don't want to

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<v Speaker 3>arrest anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>We really just.

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<v Speaker 3>Want to encourage everyone. I said, okay, so for the record,

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<v Speaker 3>nothing will happen to anyone who refuses. And they said no, no, no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>that's not what And I said, that's exactly what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, why have a law with no consequences? That's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of where we're heading with all this stuff, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it sure is.

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<v Speaker 3>Why do would you be curfew if there is zero consequences?

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<v Speaker 2>I know, with my kids, if I don't punish.

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<v Speaker 3>Them for something, you know they're going to keep doing

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<v Speaker 3>it over and over. I mean it happens with grown

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<v Speaker 3>ups too, with criminals, if you don't punish them, they.

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<v Speaker 2>Just keep escalating their behavior, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly, All right, let me ask you this question. The

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<v Speaker 1>curfew is on the books. It says there's a curfew

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<v Speaker 1>right right, it's a law, right, yes, so the police

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<v Speaker 1>are bound to uphold the law. Now, let's just assume,

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<v Speaker 1>for the sake of discussion, Police Police Chief Fiji is

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<v Speaker 1>engaged and cared and she told her officers, you need

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<v Speaker 1>to make this a priority. We're not going to engage

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<v Speaker 1>in prosecutorial discs aggression and let people off, which police

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<v Speaker 1>can do all the time. It's like a police officer

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<v Speaker 1>pulling you out for going eighty five and a fifty

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<v Speaker 1>five and says, listen, you're going fast. Nobody was on

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<v Speaker 1>the road, so I'm going to give you a warning

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<v Speaker 1>and let you go. You broke the law, but under

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<v Speaker 1>these circumstances, I'll let you go. Into this particular case,

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<v Speaker 1>they're saying, there's a blanket we're not going to enforce

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<v Speaker 1>it issue or decree out there because the law is

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<v Speaker 1>still on the books. So it seems to be the

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<v Speaker 1>police department could do what it wants, could enforce the

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<v Speaker 1>law that's on the books, and while nothing might become

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<v Speaker 1>of it or happen to it, but they need to

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<v Speaker 1>start cracking down at least to send a message out

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<v Speaker 1>there that you're gonna get picked up, and you're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>have to deal with the consequences, as little and small

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<v Speaker 1>as they may be, at least it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a headache and hassle for the kid and their family.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>But if a police officer cites or arrests a child

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<v Speaker 3>or a parent for this, then the police chief would

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<v Speaker 3>not like that because the police chief told them not

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<v Speaker 3>to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's where I was looking for. That's when I

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<v Speaker 1>see that. That's why I kind of qualified them. I said,

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<v Speaker 1>if she cared and she issued this edict or mandate,

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<v Speaker 1>so apparently Fiji has already told her officers to ignore

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<v Speaker 1>the curfew law.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, someone high up CPD has told them not to

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<v Speaker 3>arrest to release the children if.

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<v Speaker 2>Their parents are unavailable.

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<v Speaker 3>But even if she Fiji decided she wanted to enforce it,

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<v Speaker 3>then the city manager would not like that. And the

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<v Speaker 3>city manager has the ability to pick a new police chief,

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<v Speaker 3>right And even if the city manager wanted to do it,

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<v Speaker 3>the city manager is hired by the.

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<v Speaker 2>Mayor, so he could pick a new city manager. So

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<v Speaker 2>this all goes back to the mayor.

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<v Speaker 3>The mayor controls the city manager, who controls the police

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<v Speaker 3>chief who controls the police department. So if you're not

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<v Speaker 3>doing what the mayor wants, I mean, you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>be replaced.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, wouldn't that be a great story for local news

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<v Speaker 1>to report on Fiji wants to enforce the law that's

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<v Speaker 1>on the books. Mayor afterpur Will wants to ignore and

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<v Speaker 1>pretend like the law isn't there. City manager law wants

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<v Speaker 1>to ignore the law and pretend like it's not there.

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<v Speaker 1>We got a problem with youth out on the streets

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<v Speaker 1>and gangs committing violent acts over the weekend and in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of the night. They could be picked up.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a law in the books that would allow for that.

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<v Speaker 1>But look, yes, she tried police chief Fiji and they

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<v Speaker 1>started enforcing it, and she lost her job because there's

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<v Speaker 1>a law in the books that she was enforcing. That

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't make for good copy for the city manager or

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<v Speaker 1>for the mayor, would it.

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<v Speaker 2>No? Exactly, Well they should start.

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<v Speaker 1>Doing their damn job then and tell those two to

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<v Speaker 1>go to hell.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, But don't you think it's interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, we've kind of become a national.

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<v Speaker 1>Lacking stock, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And I've seen all these memes and joke articles about

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<v Speaker 3>our police departments.

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<v Speaker 2>And I find it interesting that Chief Fiji is the

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<v Speaker 2>target of all of this. The battelond I know, that

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<v Speaker 2>was funny.

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<v Speaker 1>It was hilarious, but we made the battle and d

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's.

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<v Speaker 3>I know, it's very exciting, but it's interesting that Fiji

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<v Speaker 3>is the one being pushed forward to do all the

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<v Speaker 3>press conferences. She's kind of the spokesperson for all of

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<v Speaker 3>this instead of the city manager and the mayor. It's

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<v Speaker 3>very smart of the mayor to the hide the chief

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<v Speaker 3>as the target of all this. You don't see all

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<v Speaker 3>these memes and jokes about the mayor because he's not

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<v Speaker 3>really responding to everything. By making the police the target,

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<v Speaker 3>this is just another like, oh, look how horrible police

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<v Speaker 3>are kind of narrative, right, instead of look how horrible

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<v Speaker 3>the city administration or the mayor is.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it's not fair.

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<v Speaker 1>The devil really is in the details. As you've explained

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<v Speaker 1>all this, and I'll go back to the fact. They

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<v Speaker 1>say it again, we've got a law in the books

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<v Speaker 1>that's not being enforced at the directive of apparently the

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<v Speaker 1>city manager and the mayor. That should be the focus

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<v Speaker 1>of some of the nationwide reporting. Why aren't they enforcing

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<v Speaker 1>the curfew law. In the City of Cincinnati, things can

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<v Speaker 1>get a lot better as far as crime is concerned,

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<v Speaker 1>and they quit pointing to who's just doing what she

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<v Speaker 1>let her lords and masters have told her to do.

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<v Speaker 3>I was that's interesting too, because last week I saw

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<v Speaker 3>it looked like a city council meeting. I saw a

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<v Speaker 3>clip where the mayor was there, and he brought Chief

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<v Speaker 3>Fiji in and he said, there's been a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>talk that the city has been telling you not to

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<v Speaker 3>enforce laws. And he said, I just want to put

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<v Speaker 3>this to rest. So and then he kind of crossed

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<v Speaker 3>his arms and he looked down and he said, uh so.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, have I.

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<v Speaker 3>Or any of the elected officials up here ever instructed

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<v Speaker 3>you to not enforce a law?

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<v Speaker 2>And Chief Fiji said, absolutely not. And my immediate reaction.

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<v Speaker 3>Was, of course not it was the city manager who

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<v Speaker 3>told her that, because that's the chain of command. AFTAB

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<v Speaker 3>tells it to the city manager. City manager tells it

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<v Speaker 3>to her. So it's interesting because he said, there are

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<v Speaker 3>all these rumors that the city is telling you this,

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<v Speaker 3>But he said, let me narrow down the field of

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<v Speaker 3>people for this question, just me and just the city

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<v Speaker 3>council people up here, have any of us personally told

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<v Speaker 3>you not to any force laws. And this happened when

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<v Speaker 3>he first took office. There was a big raid out

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<v Speaker 3>in mount Airy Forest. They usually do a raid every year,

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<v Speaker 3>I think, and they round up people for prostitution in

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<v Speaker 3>mount Airy Forest. Yeah, and then once the list of

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<v Speaker 3>people came out, all the people who were arrested, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a prominent person on that list, and.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that was shut down pretty quickly, and the mayor, then,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm assuming through the city manager, told the police, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, we're not going to do these raids anymore. You're

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<v Speaker 2>not going to publish these lists. You're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>do that.

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<v Speaker 3>So the police are being disabled by the mayor and

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<v Speaker 3>the city manager because they're saying, don't enforce this, don't

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<v Speaker 3>enforce that. But then all the wrath comes down on

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<v Speaker 3>the police for not forcing anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and you couple that with when they do actually

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<v Speaker 1>engage in law enforcement and in force let's say, moving

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<v Speaker 1>away from curfew, any really any other law. They go

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<v Speaker 1>through the revolving door of the judicial system, which takes

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<v Speaker 1>the morale out of the police officers, Like why do

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<v Speaker 1>I bother? I got all this paperwork I've got to do,

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<v Speaker 1>and nothing is going to happen to the perp that

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<v Speaker 1>I just got done picking up. It's a pointless gesture.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like they're just like just hell with a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Officer so and so. I'm just going to ignore this

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<v Speaker 1>one because nothing's going to happen. It's a waste of

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<v Speaker 1>our time.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Well, why would you step in to arrest someone

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<v Speaker 3>who might hurt you, might sue you, all these things

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<v Speaker 3>when it's all going to result in nothing. The person's

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<v Speaker 3>going to get out on an O R bond and

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<v Speaker 3>then even if they get convicted, they're going to be

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<v Speaker 3>given probation.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, this whole like Juris EMD situation has completely

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<v Speaker 3>gotten out of control. I don't know if your listeners

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<v Speaker 3>know the difference there, but like electric monitoring, that's when

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<v Speaker 3>someone is on the box, they have the box on

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<v Speaker 3>their ankle and it's hooked up to their home and

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<v Speaker 3>they can't go within, they can't go more than a

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<v Speaker 3>certain number of feet away from their home.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like house arrest.

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<v Speaker 3>Sometimes they can go out to work or something, and

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<v Speaker 3>then juris is kind of the opposite. It's anchored on

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<v Speaker 3>the victim, the victim's phone, and if alleged perpetrator goes

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<v Speaker 3>near the victim's phone, it sets off an alarm, so

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<v Speaker 3>the victim is notified.

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<v Speaker 2>But these just they aren't happening. Usually after court, the.

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<v Speaker 3>Jodge will say, okay, you get jurists, walk down deprobation

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<v Speaker 3>a couple of blocks away and go get hooked up

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<v Speaker 3>with the box, and then people just go home. And then,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, shouldn't we be walking people down there to

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<v Speaker 3>get it if they're not doing it? Or I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>that would be like saying I'm sentencing you to jail,

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<v Speaker 3>just walk over to the jail and go serve your time, right, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Would do that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an otters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a family friend who was recently the victim

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<v Speaker 3>of a felony and the court very violent felony. The

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<v Speaker 3>court ordered an o R bond, which is shocking to me,

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<v Speaker 3>but luckily at least they said juris if requested. So

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<v Speaker 3>my friend the crime victim called and said, yes, I

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<v Speaker 3>want juris. I want this person to have the box

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<v Speaker 3>so I know if this person is near me. And

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<v Speaker 3>then my friend called every day for about a week

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<v Speaker 3>and a half and they kept saying, and he said,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, is it happening? What's going because he's scared?

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<v Speaker 3>And they kept saying, I don't, We'll look into it.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll have someone call you back every single day. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>what are crime victims supposed to do when they don't

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<v Speaker 3>know what's going on.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a complete breakdown of the system right there.

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<v Speaker 1>That's appalling. I'm not question how to respond to that.

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<v Speaker 1>That seems like such an easy fix. Get an officer

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<v Speaker 1>to walk the purp down and get the damn ankle

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<v Speaker 1>monitor installed and don't let them go until it's installed.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>And now there's been talk of moving some of our

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<v Speaker 3>courts out to different places. I mean a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>places that would be a lot cheaper for the taxpayers,

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<v Speaker 3>which is good. But if you move one court away

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<v Speaker 3>from the probation building, then like let's say one court

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<v Speaker 3>goes out to Norwood or something, then you're telling people

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<v Speaker 3>after court, Okay, go get your box. You gotta you know,

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<v Speaker 3>take two buses downtown, or you gotta pay for parking.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, who's going to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe we need a streetcar line hooking the court up

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<v Speaker 1>with the probation department.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a great idea. We need.

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<v Speaker 3>We need like mobile E m D people who could

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<v Speaker 3>just go to court and sit there and just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>put the box on.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, no, but they need to hook it up at

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<v Speaker 2>your house and everything. It's more than that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I understand, it's more complicated than the simplicity, boiled

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<v Speaker 1>down version. But if they if again, if it's an

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<v Speaker 1>honor system to go and hook the ankle monitor up,

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<v Speaker 1>then obviously this is not going to happen in all cases.

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<v Speaker 1>This is terrible. Well, but have you, Betsy sunnamon to

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<v Speaker 1>bring it to everybody's attention. Maybe we can start demanding

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<v Speaker 1>some changes and get this information out there to hold

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<v Speaker 1>our officials accountable to change the system so it actually

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<v Speaker 1>works and provides the protection that we expect of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Betsy Son, thank you so much for bringing this

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<v Speaker 1>to everybody's attention. I truly appreciate what you do. You're

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<v Speaker 1>an excellent judge and you've served our community well and

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that, and I know my listeners do also. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me and let me tell everybody about it.

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<v Speaker 1>My pleasure. Judge Sunnyman, we'll look forward to having you

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<v Speaker 1>back on again soon. It's eight twenty two, fifty five

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<v Speaker 1>cares to the Dethok station. Judge Anotopolitano. Can the president

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<v Speaker 1>imposed taxes? We'll talk about that stick around.

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<v Speaker 3>This is fifty five KARC and iHeartRadio station.