Speaker 1: Your summer pocket knife of information. That's the only way
Speaker 1: to stay in for fifty.
Speaker 2: Five karc the talk station.
Speaker 1: Eight oh five Here fifty five cars de talk station.
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday, the return of Judgjennval Paula Tano at the
Speaker 1: bottom of the hour.
Speaker 2: He's back from vacation.
Speaker 1: I'll sit here from Pimlin County Prosecutor Mark Tokulby did
Speaker 1: a great job getting this miserable pervert convicted child molester.
Speaker 1: He was ninety three counts to get the details on that.
Speaker 1: What a wonderful coup or victory that is for the
Speaker 1: entire community. And elections have consequences and sometimes we make
Speaker 1: great choices. One of the great choices the city made,
Speaker 1: said Judge Betsy Sunderman. She was elected the Domestic Relation
Speaker 1: Court in November twenty two. Prior to that, served as
Speaker 1: a Hamilon County Probig Court magistrate for five years on
Speaker 1: Sinceei City Council for two years. You all remember that
Speaker 1: under She's also an assistant Hamilton County Prosecutor for thirteen
Speaker 1: years in the Juvenile Dependency drug forbaritsure municipal in appellad divisions.
Speaker 1: Lots of experience and a woman who knows what she's doing.
Speaker 1: Welcome in the Morning Show, Judge Betsy Sunderman. It's a
Speaker 1: pleasure to have you on today.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: I always enjoy talking to you. So the summary of
Speaker 1: our subject matter in three simple words. Curfews don't work. Now,
Speaker 1: Can I just guess that maybe that's because no one
Speaker 1: enforces the curfew. The police don't bother picking people up
Speaker 1: that violate curfew because it's a waste of their time
Speaker 1: because nothing ever happens to the ones they pick up.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Judge Sunderman. That's why we've got you on.
Speaker 2: Today, exactly.
Speaker 3: So, about three weeks ago, I was in Indianapolis with
Speaker 3: my little girls. We went to see Wicked, the show,
Speaker 3: and there was a lot of crime that night right
Speaker 3: around our hotel where we stayed, and juveniles were shooting
Speaker 3: at each other. And Indianapolis put in a juvenile curfield
Speaker 3: and they started enforcing it right away, and you know,
Speaker 3: citing juveniles, citing their parents. And then about a week later,
Speaker 3: Cincinnati had a juvenile curfield and I just knew it
Speaker 3: would not be enforced the same way. And I have
Speaker 3: been correct. So our city has a tendency to create
Speaker 3: these laws so that people feel good. So people like me, Oh,
Speaker 3: I feel good because now they're taking care of it.
Speaker 3: Now they're creating a law, right, But then by not
Speaker 3: enforcing it, then the people who don't like the law
Speaker 3: are happy. So it's a it's a win win for
Speaker 3: the city. People feel good on both sides. Right. Last
Speaker 3: week there was a press conference. The city manager said,
Speaker 3: we're considering.
Speaker 1: Enforcing the the operative word enforcing.
Speaker 3: So she said, you were considering it, So that means
Speaker 3: that they weren't enforcing it before, right, So why create
Speaker 3: a law that you're not going to enforce, So she said,
Speaker 3: we're considering enforcing it. She said, our plan is that
Speaker 3: if the police find a juvenile out after curfew, they're
Speaker 3: going to bring the juvenile to a curfew center.
Speaker 2: And she said the curfew center.
Speaker 3: I don't want to exactly say where it is, but
Speaker 3: it's with one of our trusted partners, so I don't
Speaker 3: know if it's the rec center or what.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. And then once the kids.
Speaker 3: Are brought to the curfew center, their parents are called
Speaker 3: and then the parents are asked to come pick them up.
Speaker 3: I can only imagine a lot of the parents would
Speaker 3: be very wary getting a call from a police officer saying, hey,
Speaker 3: we'd love to talk to you about your child who
Speaker 3: was breaking the curfew. I'm guessing a lot of the
Speaker 3: parents would not want to go to that meetup, right.
Speaker 3: I also know from talking to police officer friends of
Speaker 3: mine that they've been told that even if they can't
Speaker 3: get a hold of the parents, they're supposed to release
Speaker 3: the juvenile. And so what's the point of that, right,
Speaker 3: So there's absolutely no consequence. So just reminds me of
Speaker 3: when I was on city council during COVID and they
Speaker 3: made a mask mandate in the city. Remember that, Yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: so they made a mask mandate and I had a
Speaker 3: lot of questions about it. I said, okay, what happens
Speaker 3: if someone goes to a restaurant and they refuse to
Speaker 3: wear a mask?
Speaker 2: And in the.
Speaker 3: City said, well, this will just empower business owners to
Speaker 3: tell people to wear a mask. And I said, okay,
Speaker 3: and then what if the person still refuses to wear
Speaker 3: a mask And they said, oh, well, I guess the
Speaker 3: business owner could call the health department and then the
Speaker 3: health department could tell the person that they should wear
Speaker 3: a mask. And I said, Okay, then what happens if
Speaker 3: the person won't wear a mask? And they said, well,
Speaker 3: they said, I guess we could send someone from the
Speaker 3: health department to the restaurant and then they could tell
Speaker 3: the person face to face.
Speaker 2: To wear a mask.
Speaker 3: And I said, okay, so then what happens when the
Speaker 3: person doesn't want to wear a mask? And they said, well,
Speaker 3: we don't want to find anyone, we don't want to
Speaker 3: arrest anyone.
Speaker 2: We really just.
Speaker 3: Want to encourage everyone. I said, okay, so for the record,
Speaker 3: nothing will happen to anyone who refuses. And they said no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: that's not what And I said, that's exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, why have a law with no consequences? That's
Speaker 2: kind of where we're heading with all this stuff, right,
Speaker 2: it sure is.
Speaker 3: Why do would you be curfew if there is zero consequences?
Speaker 2: I know, with my kids, if I don't punish.
Speaker 3: Them for something, you know they're going to keep doing
Speaker 3: it over and over. I mean it happens with grown
Speaker 3: ups too, with criminals, if you don't punish them, they.
Speaker 2: Just keep escalating their behavior, right.
Speaker 1: Exactly, All right, let me ask you this question. The
Speaker 1: curfew is on the books. It says there's a curfew
Speaker 1: right right, it's a law, right, yes, so the police
Speaker 1: are bound to uphold the law. Now, let's just assume,
Speaker 1: for the sake of discussion, Police Police Chief Fiji is
Speaker 1: engaged and cared and she told her officers, you need
Speaker 1: to make this a priority. We're not going to engage
Speaker 1: in prosecutorial discs aggression and let people off, which police
Speaker 1: can do all the time. It's like a police officer
Speaker 1: pulling you out for going eighty five and a fifty
Speaker 1: five and says, listen, you're going fast. Nobody was on
Speaker 1: the road, so I'm going to give you a warning
Speaker 1: and let you go. You broke the law, but under
Speaker 1: these circumstances, I'll let you go. Into this particular case,
Speaker 1: they're saying, there's a blanket we're not going to enforce
Speaker 1: it issue or decree out there because the law is
Speaker 1: still on the books. So it seems to be the
Speaker 1: police department could do what it wants, could enforce the
Speaker 1: law that's on the books, and while nothing might become
Speaker 1: of it or happen to it, but they need to
Speaker 1: start cracking down at least to send a message out
Speaker 1: there that you're gonna get picked up, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to deal with the consequences, as little and small
Speaker 1: as they may be, at least it's going to be
Speaker 1: a headache and hassle for the kid and their family.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But if a police officer cites or arrests a child
Speaker 3: or a parent for this, then the police chief would
Speaker 3: not like that because the police chief told them not
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's where I was looking for. That's when I
Speaker 1: see that. That's why I kind of qualified them. I said,
Speaker 1: if she cared and she issued this edict or mandate,
Speaker 1: so apparently Fiji has already told her officers to ignore
Speaker 1: the curfew law.
Speaker 3: Well, someone high up CPD has told them not to
Speaker 3: arrest to release the children if.
Speaker 2: Their parents are unavailable.
Speaker 3: But even if she Fiji decided she wanted to enforce it,
Speaker 3: then the city manager would not like that. And the
Speaker 3: city manager has the ability to pick a new police chief,
Speaker 3: right And even if the city manager wanted to do it,
Speaker 3: the city manager is hired by the.
Speaker 2: Mayor, so he could pick a new city manager. So
Speaker 2: this all goes back to the mayor.
Speaker 3: The mayor controls the city manager, who controls the police
Speaker 3: chief who controls the police department. So if you're not
Speaker 3: doing what the mayor wants, I mean, you're going to
Speaker 3: be replaced.
Speaker 1: Well, wouldn't that be a great story for local news
Speaker 1: to report on Fiji wants to enforce the law that's
Speaker 1: on the books. Mayor afterpur Will wants to ignore and
Speaker 1: pretend like the law isn't there. City manager law wants
Speaker 1: to ignore the law and pretend like it's not there.
Speaker 1: We got a problem with youth out on the streets
Speaker 1: and gangs committing violent acts over the weekend and in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night. They could be picked up.
Speaker 1: There's a law in the books that would allow for that.
Speaker 1: But look, yes, she tried police chief Fiji and they
Speaker 1: started enforcing it, and she lost her job because there's
Speaker 1: a law in the books that she was enforcing. That
Speaker 1: wouldn't make for good copy for the city manager or
Speaker 1: for the mayor, would it.
Speaker 2: No? Exactly, Well they should start.
Speaker 1: Doing their damn job then and tell those two to
Speaker 1: go to hell.
Speaker 2: Right, But don't you think it's interesting.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've kind of become a national.
Speaker 1: Lacking stock, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I've seen all these memes and joke articles about
Speaker 3: our police departments.
Speaker 2: And I find it interesting that Chief Fiji is the
Speaker 2: target of all of this. The battelond I know, that
Speaker 2: was funny.
Speaker 1: It was hilarious, but we made the battle and d
Speaker 1: I mean it's.
Speaker 3: I know, it's very exciting, but it's interesting that Fiji
Speaker 3: is the one being pushed forward to do all the
Speaker 3: press conferences. She's kind of the spokesperson for all of
Speaker 3: this instead of the city manager and the mayor. It's
Speaker 3: very smart of the mayor to the hide the chief
Speaker 3: as the target of all this. You don't see all
Speaker 3: these memes and jokes about the mayor because he's not
Speaker 3: really responding to everything. By making the police the target,
Speaker 3: this is just another like, oh, look how horrible police
Speaker 3: are kind of narrative, right, instead of look how horrible
Speaker 3: the city administration or the mayor is.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's not fair.
Speaker 1: The devil really is in the details. As you've explained
Speaker 1: all this, and I'll go back to the fact. They
Speaker 1: say it again, we've got a law in the books
Speaker 1: that's not being enforced at the directive of apparently the
Speaker 1: city manager and the mayor. That should be the focus
Speaker 1: of some of the nationwide reporting. Why aren't they enforcing
Speaker 1: the curfew law. In the City of Cincinnati, things can
Speaker 1: get a lot better as far as crime is concerned,
Speaker 1: and they quit pointing to who's just doing what she
Speaker 1: let her lords and masters have told her to do.
Speaker 3: I was that's interesting too, because last week I saw
Speaker 3: it looked like a city council meeting. I saw a
Speaker 3: clip where the mayor was there, and he brought Chief
Speaker 3: Fiji in and he said, there's been a lot of
Speaker 3: talk that the city has been telling you not to
Speaker 3: enforce laws. And he said, I just want to put
Speaker 3: this to rest. So and then he kind of crossed
Speaker 3: his arms and he looked down and he said, uh so.
Speaker 2: He said, have I.
Speaker 3: Or any of the elected officials up here ever instructed
Speaker 3: you to not enforce a law?
Speaker 2: And Chief Fiji said, absolutely not. And my immediate reaction.
Speaker 3: Was, of course not it was the city manager who
Speaker 3: told her that, because that's the chain of command. AFTAB
Speaker 3: tells it to the city manager. City manager tells it
Speaker 3: to her. So it's interesting because he said, there are
Speaker 3: all these rumors that the city is telling you this,
Speaker 3: But he said, let me narrow down the field of
Speaker 3: people for this question, just me and just the city
Speaker 3: council people up here, have any of us personally told
Speaker 3: you not to any force laws. And this happened when
Speaker 3: he first took office. There was a big raid out
Speaker 3: in mount Airy Forest. They usually do a raid every year,
Speaker 3: I think, and they round up people for prostitution in
Speaker 3: mount Airy Forest. Yeah, and then once the list of
Speaker 3: people came out, all the people who were arrested, I think.
Speaker 2: There was a prominent person on that list, and.
Speaker 3: I think that was shut down pretty quickly, and the mayor, then,
Speaker 3: I'm assuming through the city manager, told the police, you.
Speaker 2: Know, we're not going to do these raids anymore. You're
Speaker 2: not going to publish these lists. You're not going to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: So the police are being disabled by the mayor and
Speaker 3: the city manager because they're saying, don't enforce this, don't
Speaker 3: enforce that. But then all the wrath comes down on
Speaker 3: the police for not forcing anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and you couple that with when they do actually
Speaker 1: engage in law enforcement and in force let's say, moving
Speaker 1: away from curfew, any really any other law. They go
Speaker 1: through the revolving door of the judicial system, which takes
Speaker 1: the morale out of the police officers, Like why do
Speaker 1: I bother? I got all this paperwork I've got to do,
Speaker 1: and nothing is going to happen to the perp that
Speaker 1: I just got done picking up. It's a pointless gesture.
Speaker 1: It's like they're just like just hell with a you know,
Speaker 1: Officer so and so. I'm just going to ignore this
Speaker 1: one because nothing's going to happen. It's a waste of
Speaker 1: our time.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, why would you step in to arrest someone
Speaker 3: who might hurt you, might sue you, all these things
Speaker 3: when it's all going to result in nothing. The person's
Speaker 3: going to get out on an O R bond and
Speaker 3: then even if they get convicted, they're going to be
Speaker 3: given probation.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I mean, this whole like Juris EMD situation has completely
Speaker 3: gotten out of control. I don't know if your listeners
Speaker 3: know the difference there, but like electric monitoring, that's when
Speaker 3: someone is on the box, they have the box on
Speaker 3: their ankle and it's hooked up to their home and
Speaker 3: they can't go within, they can't go more than a
Speaker 3: certain number of feet away from their home.
Speaker 2: It's like house arrest.
Speaker 3: Sometimes they can go out to work or something, and
Speaker 3: then juris is kind of the opposite. It's anchored on
Speaker 3: the victim, the victim's phone, and if alleged perpetrator goes
Speaker 3: near the victim's phone, it sets off an alarm, so
Speaker 3: the victim is notified.
Speaker 2: But these just they aren't happening. Usually after court, the.
Speaker 3: Jodge will say, okay, you get jurists, walk down deprobation
Speaker 3: a couple of blocks away and go get hooked up
Speaker 3: with the box, and then people just go home. And then,
Speaker 3: I mean, shouldn't we be walking people down there to
Speaker 3: get it if they're not doing it? Or I mean,
Speaker 3: that would be like saying I'm sentencing you to jail,
Speaker 3: just walk over to the jail and go serve your time, right, it.
Speaker 2: Would do that.
Speaker 1: It's an otters.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean.
Speaker 3: I have a family friend who was recently the victim
Speaker 3: of a felony and the court very violent felony. The
Speaker 3: court ordered an o R bond, which is shocking to me,
Speaker 3: but luckily at least they said juris if requested. So
Speaker 3: my friend the crime victim called and said, yes, I
Speaker 3: want juris. I want this person to have the box
Speaker 3: so I know if this person is near me. And
Speaker 3: then my friend called every day for about a week
Speaker 3: and a half and they kept saying, and he said,
Speaker 3: you know, is it happening? What's going because he's scared?
Speaker 3: And they kept saying, I don't, We'll look into it.
Speaker 3: We'll have someone call you back every single day. I mean,
Speaker 3: what are crime victims supposed to do when they don't
Speaker 3: know what's going on.
Speaker 1: That is a complete breakdown of the system right there.
Speaker 1: That's appalling. I'm not question how to respond to that.
Speaker 1: That seems like such an easy fix. Get an officer
Speaker 1: to walk the purp down and get the damn ankle
Speaker 1: monitor installed and don't let them go until it's installed.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And now there's been talk of moving some of our
Speaker 3: courts out to different places. I mean a lot of
Speaker 3: places that would be a lot cheaper for the taxpayers,
Speaker 3: which is good. But if you move one court away
Speaker 3: from the probation building, then like let's say one court
Speaker 3: goes out to Norwood or something, then you're telling people
Speaker 3: after court, Okay, go get your box. You gotta you know,
Speaker 3: take two buses downtown, or you gotta pay for parking.
Speaker 2: I mean, who's going to do that.
Speaker 1: Maybe we need a streetcar line hooking the court up
Speaker 1: with the probation department.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great idea. We need.
Speaker 3: We need like mobile E m D people who could
Speaker 3: just go to court and sit there and just you know,
Speaker 3: put the box on.
Speaker 2: Well, no, but they need to hook it up at
Speaker 2: your house and everything. It's more than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand, it's more complicated than the simplicity, boiled
Speaker 1: down version. But if they if again, if it's an
Speaker 1: honor system to go and hook the ankle monitor up,
Speaker 1: then obviously this is not going to happen in all cases.
Speaker 1: This is terrible. Well, but have you, Betsy sunnamon to
Speaker 1: bring it to everybody's attention. Maybe we can start demanding
Speaker 1: some changes and get this information out there to hold
Speaker 1: our officials accountable to change the system so it actually
Speaker 1: works and provides the protection that we expect of it.
Speaker 1: Judge Betsy Son, thank you so much for bringing this
Speaker 1: to everybody's attention. I truly appreciate what you do. You're
Speaker 1: an excellent judge and you've served our community well and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and I know my listeners do also. Well.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me and let me tell everybody about it.
Speaker 1: My pleasure. Judge Sunnyman, we'll look forward to having you
Speaker 1: back on again soon. It's eight twenty two, fifty five
Speaker 1: cares to the Dethok station. Judge Anotopolitano. Can the president
Speaker 1: imposed taxes? We'll talk about that stick around.
Speaker 3: This is fifty five KARC and iHeartRadio station.