Speaker 1: Imagine the place where you can escape for a day,
Speaker 1: get immersed in a world of rooms, inspiration, and expertise,
Speaker 1: where you can lay in luxury accommodation, and kids can
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Speaker 2: Hi, iologize, Hi Ali Ward here it's me so first off,
Speaker 2: I want to apologize to the many thousands of you
Speaker 2: who think that this episode is about gelato, because it's
Speaker 2: just straight up not. It's not about gelato at all.
Speaker 2: Jelottos in Greek means laughter, jelare in Latin means to
Speaker 2: freeze or congeal, two different things in origins. But that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you can't eat gelato while you're listening.
Speaker 2: I can't see you, you can not on a ham.
Speaker 2: You can lick your tile grout listening to this. It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean I'm just glad you're here. Hey, Okay, let's
Speaker 2: get creepy first, shall we. Your reviews help ologies stay
Speaker 2: up kicking ass in the science charts, and I appreciate
Speaker 2: them so much. It's so great to look at the
Speaker 2: science charts and see ologies up there in like the
Speaker 2: top twenty five. Just little us making this podcast guys. Also,
Speaker 2: I frequently write and research all alone wearing no pants,
Speaker 2: and your reviews make my day. I read every single
Speaker 2: one each week. I like to read you one that
Speaker 2: just tickled me. More on tickling later. God's getting creepier
Speaker 2: and creepier every second, so I get others drunk. Okay,
Speaker 2: says thank you Ali Ward for showing the world that
Speaker 2: these usually academic nerds are fun, funny, interesting besides smart.
Speaker 2: This show makes me wish I was anologist so that
Speaker 2: Ali would ask me dumb questions. Hey, Ali, if you
Speaker 2: ever need to chat with a distiller, I will happily
Speaker 2: meet you in the lobby of an airport hotel. Actually,
Speaker 2: I think that there are some ologies related to distillery,
Speaker 2: So holler, so rate and review. I see all of
Speaker 2: your names, and I think, hey, thanks name. So spread
Speaker 2: the word. You can tell a friend or two about
Speaker 2: the show. You can become a patron on Patreon. You
Speaker 2: can hit up ologiesmerch dot com if you ever want
Speaker 2: to wear a logical love on your human body. So
Speaker 2: onto the episode. Now. Gelatology was a huge factor in
Speaker 2: my developing an obsession with ologies. I remember seeing it
Speaker 2: on this big list of like various different fields of study.
Speaker 2: It was wedged between, like, guess strology, which is the stomach,
Speaker 2: and I think gemology, which was episode five goll Lissen
Speaker 2: and y'all. But I saw the study of laughter and
Speaker 2: I was like, who does that? Who are these people?
Speaker 2: What are their lives? Who are they? So I started
Speaker 2: researching and reaching out for people to interview. And last
Speaker 2: year I started looking and this ologist was at the
Speaker 2: top of my list, and I got in touch with
Speaker 2: the university. I explained that this was a podcast, it
Speaker 2: didn't exist yet it would and I promise I'm not
Speaker 2: a terrorist or anything, and could I come and meet him?
Speaker 2: And after a year of email tag a year, you guys,
Speaker 2: a year, I was in my car on my way
Speaker 2: to Loma Linda, California, which is a dusty academic town
Speaker 2: in the Inland Empire, and I was ushered to a
Speaker 2: basement lab for an interview. Now, shockingly and hilariously, this
Speaker 2: Jellatologist may be one of the most serious subjects I've
Speaker 2: ever sat down with, which I love. I know this
Speaker 2: is an episode about humor, but it gets intense and
Speaker 2: kind of dark, but also inspiring. This is like not
Speaker 2: a party clown in a lab coat. He is not
Speaker 2: the Michael Scott equivalent of your family physician. His ologist
Speaker 2: is all business. In his words, he says he's the
Speaker 2: guy who's serious about laughter, and he is. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2: In the last three episodes of Ologies, we heard from
Speaker 2: a herpetologist who was telling me all about snake butts
Speaker 2: and an ichthyologist who was musing about fish getting it on,
Speaker 2: and they were both hilarious. And then this episode about
Speaker 2: laughter is one of the more factual ones, which is great.
Speaker 2: This chat was surprising in a lot of ways. He's
Speaker 2: an immunologist, a psychologist, and because his life's work is
Speaker 2: about how laughter affects the endocrine and immune system, he
Speaker 2: is a gelatologist. Now, in this episode, you'll learn why
Speaker 2: things are funnier in a packed theater, how a joke
Speaker 2: works broadly, why stress is maybe literally killing you, nobing deal,
Speaker 2: and some interesting science behind roast jokes. So, in the
Speaker 2: doc's words, make time to get off your work, mery,
Speaker 2: garround for a bit and gorge on some gelatology with
Speaker 2: doctor Lee Burke. I'll get some levels on.
Speaker 3: You on two, three, four five.
Speaker 2: How long have you been at this university?
Speaker 3: I started in nineteen seventy one. Here, yes, nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 2: Forty seven years, you guys, forty seven years. He started
Speaker 2: in laboratory medicine and immunology. He was working on transplants
Speaker 2: for infants. And he holds degrees in psychology, sociology, clinical
Speaker 2: laboratory science, Masters, and a PhD in clinical preventative care.
Speaker 2: So the things you can do to stop I'm getting
Speaker 2: stick in the first place, other than just washing your
Speaker 2: hands obsessively.
Speaker 3: But to be involved in psychoneuroimmunology, you have to be
Speaker 3: very eclectic.
Speaker 2: So how many degrees do you have? I'll give you
Speaker 2: a minute. Five five degrees?
Speaker 3: Five degrees. So I started in psychology. I was going
Speaker 3: to go into clinical psych and I decided, nah, it
Speaker 3: doesn't have all the answers because there's more to wellness
Speaker 3: or staying well, which was my passion, than just the
Speaker 3: psychological theoretical component. So that's why I decided to step
Speaker 3: into the heavier sciences, if you please.
Speaker 2: And now, in nineteen seventy one, I imagine that science
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily look at the mind and the body as
Speaker 2: super connected or did they.
Speaker 3: No, there was no real appreciation for mind body connection
Speaker 3: in late sixties or early seventies, and when it came
Speaker 3: to light, the medical community didn't know what to do
Speaker 3: with this bizarre thing of a connection between mind and body.
Speaker 3: You have to remember the historical context of the separation
Speaker 3: had to do with four hundred and fifty years or
Speaker 3: so ago with de car and that there was a
Speaker 3: split when there was interest of integrating mind and spirit
Speaker 3: into medicine. There was great chastisement that don't you ever
Speaker 3: attempt to do that?
Speaker 2: So who was de Karte? I'm sorry, I'm glad you
Speaker 2: asked me to ask Google because I could not remember.
Speaker 2: I had no idea. So French born and Dutch lived
Speaker 2: mathematician and philosopher. He wrote about something called dualism, which
Speaker 2: is the mind and body being separate, made of separate
Speaker 2: types of matter. You know, the mental can exist outside
Speaker 2: of the body, but the body cannot think. So this
Speaker 2: philosophy kind of jives with a lot of religions that
Speaker 2: claim that immortal souls occupy this independent realm of existence,
Speaker 2: distinct from the rest of the physical world. Nowadays, we're
Speaker 2: like not so much but this whole situation gloriously has
Speaker 2: a Wikipedia page called the mind body problem, which sounds
Speaker 2: very dramatic and or like it would have something to
Speaker 2: do with the mind wanting to eat peanut butter pancakes,
Speaker 2: but the body is like, could you not.
Speaker 3: So the separation of dualism took place. Back then we
Speaker 3: had medicine dealings with the somatic or the body, and
Speaker 3: at that time they all powerful entity was the Church,
Speaker 3: which dealt with the mind and the spirit. So medicine
Speaker 3: was told to keep its hands off and stay with
Speaker 3: the body and the mind and the spirit would stay
Speaker 3: with whatever they meant by mind at that time would
Speaker 3: stay with the venue of the church. And not until
Speaker 3: probably the mid nineteen hundreds did we start to reintroduce
Speaker 3: the fact that there was a component that medicine wasn't
Speaker 3: dealing with, and that was what do we do the mind?
Speaker 3: Because the patient that got sick and had mental illness,
Speaker 3: as most of us remember, was thrown in the room
Speaker 3: and the door was locked, and we called them messana asylum,
Speaker 3: and we had it was not part of the venue
Speaker 3: of medicine of knowing what to do with patients either
Speaker 3: in helping to keep them well, or in trying to
Speaker 3: treat them relative to the aspect of the mind.
Speaker 2: How did you get interested in studying humor and its
Speaker 2: effects on the brain, because there's not many people out
Speaker 2: there doing that.
Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, a great question. How did I
Speaker 3: get started with looking at humor? I was always intrigued
Speaker 3: with the ancient wisdom, of the ancient biblical wisdom actually
Speaker 3: of mary heart does good like a medicine in the
Speaker 3: Old Testament of the Bible.
Speaker 2: So when doctor Burke said mary heart, I thought he
Speaker 2: was talking about either very heart from entertainment tonight or
Speaker 2: like biblical Mary. I was all confused. So I looked
Speaker 2: it up and it's Mary as in cheerful, which makes
Speaker 2: way more sense. The whole quote is a mary heart
Speaker 2: does good like medicine, but a broken spirit dries the bones. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I'm now realizing that for centuries when old timey people
Speaker 2: needed to pick me up, like you know, all of
Speaker 2: your seven children just perished of dip theirry or whatever.
Speaker 2: You crack open the Bible instead of looking on Instagram
Speaker 2: for those lifestyle accounts that sometimes post inspirational quotes by Beyonce.
Speaker 2: So whatever gets you pumped, man, The.
Speaker 3: Statement of a merry heart does good like a medicine,
Speaker 3: but a broken spirit will drise the bone. Nothing could
Speaker 3: be more modern in interpretation of the field of psycho
Speaker 3: neeuroimmunology than that that statement that I was intrigued with
Speaker 3: the positive aspect, knowing that there was this communication between brain,
Speaker 3: neuroandercin hormones and the immune system. What was going on
Speaker 3: relative to positive behaviors of keeping one well, of staying
Speaker 3: away from disease? So I got really interested from those perspectives.
Speaker 2: What is a laugh? What is happening in the brain
Speaker 2: and the body?
Speaker 3: A laugh is the physical expression of something that triggers
Speaker 3: the brain to say that this is really funny enough
Speaker 3: to provide some sort of overt expulsion of air.
Speaker 2: I laughed. Why did I just laugh? Maybe because I
Speaker 2: didn't expect such a technical answer. But what happened physically
Speaker 2: to my face and my lungs? So a researcher named
Speaker 2: Robert Provine found that fifteen muscles in your face contract,
Speaker 2: and your respiratory system gets jacked up by your epiglottis,
Speaker 2: which is that throat flappy thing half closing your air passage.
Speaker 2: So your air intake occurs irregularly and it makes you gasp.
Speaker 2: But not everyone who enjoys humor l'sl or.
Speaker 3: In some cases, with some individuals, not an expulsion of
Speaker 3: air or a laugh or a sound that one hears
Speaker 3: from the other person. We found the latter out to
Speaker 3: be true when we were doing some early pilot studies
Speaker 3: and one of our subjects was he happened to be pathologist,
Speaker 3: not targeting pathologist, but I'm just saying this was a
Speaker 3: pathologist that was somewhat passive and not overt and we
Speaker 3: hooked him up with the needle in the arm and
Speaker 3: we said, now here and watch this humor video that
Speaker 3: you like and laugh. So we took blood from him
Speaker 3: every fifteen minutes through an hour's period of time to
Speaker 3: see what was happening with some of his stress hormones.
Speaker 3: And we thought we hadn't really just blown the experiment
Speaker 3: because all we got out of him were snickers and
Speaker 3: a little giggle, but nothing that would be considered a laugh.
Speaker 3: And we thought this was just a waste of time.
Speaker 2: What was he watching?
Speaker 3: He was watching a Abbot and Costello video. We asked
Speaker 3: him how he enjoyed was this funny or did you
Speaker 3: enjoy oh? He thought it was a scream, although there
Speaker 3: was no overt evidence that. So one doesn't have to
Speaker 3: be falling on the floor laughing if you please, as
Speaker 3: we typically will think in fits of laughter. Yet the
Speaker 3: hormone response, that is, the decrease in the detrimental stress hormones,
Speaker 3: was just as significant as one who was laughing overtly
Speaker 3: or out loud. So well, we learned a lot by what.
Speaker 2: Laughter is or isn't and what triggers a laugh. Is
Speaker 2: it something that is surprising? Is it something that is ironic?
Speaker 2: Why typically do we laugh?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 3: There, gosh, it's a question I can't answer. There are
Speaker 3: a number of different theories about laughter or what is
Speaker 3: humorous that causes one to laugh.
Speaker 2: They say most laughter isn't about humor necessarily, it's about
Speaker 2: relationships between people, which I think is really interesting. One
Speaker 2: theory is called the relief theory, and Freud said that
Speaker 2: laughter releases tension and something called psychic energy, which maybe
Speaker 2: one reason why it's seen as healing, or why laughter
Speaker 2: can be used as a coping mechanism when someone is
Speaker 2: upset or angry or sad. And this happens to my sister.
Speaker 2: I have never seen anyone else have this happen to
Speaker 2: you so much? But in times when she's been really
Speaker 2: shocked or scared, she gets the giggles. It boggles us all,
Speaker 2: and to her she's like, I can't, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm laughing. Apparently it's a way of releasing tension. So
Speaker 2: another theory is that humans are just biologically wired to
Speaker 2: laugh as communal relief wants, danger passes. This was so
Speaker 2: interesting to me. So a joke creates this inconsistency. And
Speaker 2: if we can figure out the riddle, this brain riddle,
Speaker 2: and realize that the surprise isn't dangerous, we laugh because
Speaker 2: we're relieved, so we have to get a little bit
Speaker 2: scared and then we go okay. Never it's fine. So
Speaker 2: in general, something is funny when we expect one thing
Speaker 2: and then the punchline causes us to abruptly shift our
Speaker 2: understanding of the whole situation, and then we snore and
Speaker 2: hiccup and expel air or fart or whatever. Okay, but
Speaker 2: what makes us rot f mL emma laughing are on
Speaker 2: the ground.
Speaker 3: One The best definition that I think we that I
Speaker 3: have to date, would be that there we stumble on
Speaker 3: an incongruity of what is and what we stumble into.
Speaker 3: So it's that incongruity of what you are anticipating is
Speaker 3: going to be that does not occur. It causes you
Speaker 3: to trip on yourself, so to speak, mentally, and as
Speaker 3: a consequence, you laugh. Beyond that, I still don't know
Speaker 3: how we can describe it any better.
Speaker 2: Do you laugh a lot in your daily life?
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I probably or don't overtly laugh
Speaker 3: a lot, because I'm one of the indicators of who
Speaker 3: doctor Lee Burke is is that he's the guy that's
Speaker 3: serious about laughter. And essentially that's true. But I enjoy
Speaker 3: humor just incessantly. I grab it as much as I can,
Speaker 3: and I will sit and watch humor on places like
Speaker 3: YouTube constantly. Really yeah, and that's done intentionally because now
Speaker 3: I'm going to step a little bit into the whole
Speaker 3: world of lifestyle medicine, where I firmly believe that one
Speaker 3: needs to get off the merry go round periodically because
Speaker 3: you want to break the cycle of the distress hormones,
Speaker 3: which as we proceed through our daily life, we exacerbate
Speaker 3: or ramp up the distress response. That's which is detrimental
Speaker 3: both immiologically.
Speaker 2: I got to ask what YouTube videos.
Speaker 3: I watch a lot of Carol Burnett Show.
Speaker 2: So there's a pair of comedic actors from the Carol
Speaker 2: Burnett Show that he really loves, Tim Conway and Harvey Korman.
Speaker 2: I looked it up.
Speaker 3: They do a dental scene going to do an extraction
Speaker 3: on his colleague on the show, and it's probably one
Speaker 3: of the funniest videos I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: Conway and Corman performed this legendary sketch involves a very
Speaker 2: bad dentist and one of them. Corman could not control
Speaker 2: his laughter during shooting the scene, and apparently at one
Speaker 2: point he had a little bit of an accident and
Speaker 2: he went himself. But it's that legendary a comedy scene.
Speaker 5: Well, doctor, please please get this get this tooth out
Speaker 5: of my mom out. Let's see if we're gonna pull
Speaker 5: her out, we'll have to have those pulley things, please,
Speaker 5: and let's see pinchy things and the little picky things there,
Speaker 5: didn't you picky pully.
Speaker 2: Doctor Burke says he'll put on videos like this in
Speaker 2: the middle of the day if he needs like a
Speaker 2: little boost, you know, for you, it might mean falling
Speaker 2: down a rabbit hole of Twitter memes or researching you know,
Speaker 2: a pig getting a massage from a cat, which, if
Speaker 2: you have a chance to, you should look that one up.
Speaker 2: So stressful day you fired up?
Speaker 3: Oh I I watch several times in the day. I'll
Speaker 3: just stop and just turn something on.
Speaker 2: Was there a moment in your career where you realized
Speaker 2: you wanted to take a turn and study the effects
Speaker 2: of laughter on the immune system. Was there a moment
Speaker 2: where you thought, Aha, I'm going to be the guy
Speaker 2: that does this.
Speaker 3: The way that came about deciding to take a look
Speaker 3: at laughter was more by accident than by design. I
Speaker 3: think Albert Einstein said, if we had all the answers,
Speaker 3: we wouldn't call it research, or if we knew what
Speaker 3: we were doing, we wouldn't call it research.
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty eight, doctor Burke was researching exercise,
Speaker 2: and I hope it was like gnarly leotard clad, jazzer
Speaker 2: sized stuff and the effects of that on the brain,
Speaker 2: and they were finding a correlation with laughter.
Speaker 3: And indeed that is the case. We were playing around
Speaker 3: with laughter because we found prime to that that moderate
Speaker 3: exercise could literally enhance the production of something called beta endorphin,
Speaker 3: and we would put individuals on treadmills and put it
Speaker 3: what we call ivy angio catheters in there at a
Speaker 3: cubital vein, that's the vein that you have your blood drawn.
Speaker 3: We saw that, indeed, andendorphins would increase differently in individuals
Speaker 3: that work physically fit condition versus those that were not.
Speaker 3: And that was sort of a historic finding at that time.
Speaker 3: But what intrigued me was that people were saying at
Speaker 3: least one individual by the name of Norman Cousins who
Speaker 3: was saying that he would laugh and get pain free
Speaker 3: sleep from watching his Laurel and Hardy videos or movies
Speaker 3: at that time, because this is a gentleman who had
Speaker 3: a disease called angulosingspongelitis, this autoimmune disease.
Speaker 2: So that's a type of arthritis that can cause wicked
Speaker 2: back pain and normal. Cousins was he was a writer,
Speaker 2: a journalist, he was a world peace activist, and he'd
Speaker 2: get these massive bouts of pain and he'd watch Laurel
Speaker 2: and Hardy via projector. This is like in the seventies
Speaker 2: before BCRs, which were these things that were like you too,
Speaker 2: but they weighed fifty pounds. Side note Laurel and Hardy
Speaker 2: was a comedy duo from the nineteen thirties. So that's
Speaker 2: kind of the equivalent of people now like watching Carol
Speaker 2: burnetfadios or your grandchildren watching Tim and Eric in a
Speaker 2: space capsule, which we will definitely have in forty years. Anyway,
Speaker 2: Norman Cousins cool dude in a lot of pain watching
Speaker 2: old comedies.
Speaker 3: He was able to sleep after laughing for about twenty
Speaker 3: minutes or thirty minutes at a time and sleep for
Speaker 3: about three to four hours without any pain. So that
Speaker 3: was a trigger that I wonder what was happening with
Speaker 3: the stress hormones, and that's when we started pursuing the
Speaker 3: studies of looking at what stress hormones were affected or
Speaker 3: the term that we use this modulated as a result
Speaker 3: of watching and enjoying mirthful laughter humor videos. And when
Speaker 3: we started that journey, somehow the word got out. We
Speaker 3: were then contacted by the CBS sixty minutes who wanted
Speaker 3: to come in video what we were doing. And my
Speaker 3: first response is were no, thank you, because I was
Speaker 3: a terrifying endeavor to invite CBS sixty minutes to come
Speaker 3: in the door.
Speaker 2: So sixty minutes comes and the interview goes well, and
Speaker 2: in short people are like what hey.
Speaker 3: So as a result of that scenario, we decided that
Speaker 3: this was serious business and we started to pursue it.
Speaker 2: So then Norman cousins Laurel and Hardy Watcher with the
Speaker 2: back vean, hits up doctor Burke for a hangout and
Speaker 2: doctor Burke is like, Yo, come to my lap, let's chat.
Speaker 2: Norman's like, how can we get more serious about this
Speaker 2: research on laughter? Doctor Burke was like, well, research costs money, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: so you know, bummer dude, and.
Speaker 3: He said how much? Well, I've never been asked the
Speaker 3: question of how much money I wanted to do research,
Speaker 3: so that that caught me off guard, and I thought, well,
Speaker 3: if I ask too much, I'll sound foolish, and if
Speaker 3: I ask too little, I'll sound foolish. So I basically
Speaker 3: gave him a sum of money, and without question, the
Speaker 3: next words in his mouth were out of his mouth
Speaker 3: were whould I write the check to? And that was
Speaker 3: that was our beginning.
Speaker 2: Well, so why does laughing help? Okay, Well, laughter can
Speaker 2: help lower what are called detrimental stress hormones like cortisol
Speaker 2: and adrenaline. That does a few things.
Speaker 3: So if we release cortisol on a chronic basis, we
Speaker 3: will suppress our immune systems, so we are immune compromised,
Speaker 3: that's the word. So that's the detrimental effect of chronic
Speaker 3: stress or one of the mechanisms. So through nineteen eighty
Speaker 3: nine we indeed stumbled on the study, not stumbled, but
Speaker 3: we produced the study of medical students showing that we
Speaker 3: could lower detrimental stress hormones while watching a video, a
Speaker 3: humor video, and it was very real. And then through
Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties we continued the journey, presenting different aspects
Speaker 3: of the immune system that were modulated, changed, or affected.
Speaker 3: And the key finding at the end of the nineteen
Speaker 3: hundreds was that we published the culmination paper, included most
Speaker 3: all of the data in that paper, and I think
Speaker 3: the year two thousand and one as a consequence. One
Speaker 3: of the things that Norman Cousins was always intrigued and
Speaker 3: wanted to say was the fact that laughter could benefit
Speaker 3: the immune system by increasing natural killer cell activity on
Speaker 3: natural killer cells or immune cells that affect the immune
Speaker 3: system in that they go after virally infected cells and
Speaker 3: they go after specific cancer cells. Very very real. Actually,
Speaker 3: we can prognostically in women who have breast cancer. There's
Speaker 3: a type of in laboratory medicine, the type of testing
Speaker 3: for natural killer cell activity, and it showed that it
Speaker 3: was very effective in increasing natural killer cells to kill
Speaker 3: the cancer cells. Not that it's panaceic, but it's again
Speaker 3: part of the totality of lifestyle, lifestyle medicine and choices
Speaker 3: that we make whether we want to be happy or
Speaker 3: not happy makes a difference.
Speaker 2: Is that a choice? Do you think? Do you in
Speaker 2: your research? How much have you discovered yourself that happiness
Speaker 2: is a choice or behaviors that increase happiness rather are
Speaker 2: an important choice to make.
Speaker 3: I cannot happiness. To be happy, one has to pursue happiness.
Speaker 3: Sounds strange, it sounds maybe selfish, but it's not. Can
Speaker 3: I become physically fit by sitting in this chair wishing
Speaker 3: to become physically fit?
Speaker 2: Probably not?
Speaker 3: Probably not.
Speaker 2: I'm no doctor.
Speaker 3: Okay, no, you really can't. So there is a criteria
Speaker 3: of certain behavior that you have to do. I have
Speaker 3: to get up off the chair, and I have to move,
Speaker 3: and I have to exercise to become physically fit. I
Speaker 3: have so much aerobic exercise, so much anaerobic exercise to
Speaker 3: become physically fit or cardiovascually fit. Well, the same thing
Speaker 3: is I think very true relative to being happy. One
Speaker 3: has to pursue those things in life with an obviously
Speaker 3: rationale and reason that makes them happy. One of the
Speaker 3: things that we're finding out that makes us happy is
Speaker 3: when we make others happy. So there is a whole
Speaker 3: science of happiness. Berkeley has an incredible program called The Greater.
Speaker 2: Good and yes, I covered them in another episode. For
Speaker 2: more on this, you can listen to the episode titled
Speaker 2: grateful Ology is Not a Real Word, in which a
Speaker 2: very grumpy Alley Ward tries to science herself into a
Speaker 2: better mood. What is that? What do you need in
Speaker 2: your brain to be happy? Do you need certain kind
Speaker 2: of data waves? Gamma waves?
Speaker 3: It's a change or modulation in the type of brain frequency.
Speaker 3: It would be somewhat similar to what one wishes to
Speaker 3: attain when one reaches a true state of meditation. Mindfulness.
Speaker 3: Meditation and long term meditation are now well recognized to
Speaker 3: be associated with a frequency that hereto four was not
Speaker 3: recognized as even existing, and that's called the gamma frequency.
Speaker 3: And the gamma frequency is a frequency that ranges in
Speaker 3: the range of twenty five to thirty to forty hertz.
Speaker 3: It's like a radio dial.
Speaker 2: Let's talk brain waves real quick. This is crazy and cool.
Speaker 2: If you're into brains, which I think we all are,
Speaker 2: we have them. Isn't it weird that right now your
Speaker 2: brain is thinking about your brain, and my brain is
Speaker 2: thinking about your brain, thinking about your brain, and now
Speaker 2: your brain is thinking about my brain, thinking about your brain,
Speaker 2: thinking about your brain. Okay, so brain waves are essentially
Speaker 2: these synchronized electrical pulses. They're from these masses of neurons.
Speaker 2: They're all chatting with each other, and these waves come
Speaker 2: in different frequencies depending on your level of chill. Gonna
Speaker 2: run through them super quick. Delta is a deep sleep wave.
Speaker 2: It's like deep dreamless sleep. Transcendental meditators get into delta waves.
Speaker 2: Awareness is pretty detached. Beta waves light meditation sleeping waves.
Speaker 2: These are present during light sleep, including rem sleep, which
Speaker 2: is also known as dreamtown. Alpha waves is a deep
Speaker 2: relaxation wave, so usually your eyes are closed when you're
Speaker 2: daydreaming or doing like casual light meditation. Beta waves are
Speaker 2: like your everyday awake consciousness. That's when you're alert you're
Speaker 2: using logic, you're using your brain. You need these to function,
Speaker 2: but it can also cause a lot of stress and anxiety.
Speaker 2: Gamma is somewhat newly discovered and it's the fastest frequency.
Speaker 2: Scientists think gamma waves are associated with these like bursts
Speaker 2: of insight.
Speaker 3: Well, the benefit of the gamma frequency is that, indeed
Speaker 3: it is a freak. And see that in neuroscience we
Speaker 3: now associate with what we call neural synchronization, neural meaning
Speaker 3: nerves synchronizing or talking to each other. Well, that's that's
Speaker 3: that's a real effective brain if the brain is talking
Speaker 3: to itself, and indeed that is the case with gamma frequency.
Speaker 3: The other intriguing aspects of gamma frequency as a result
Speaker 3: of the synchronization is that it's a frequency associated with
Speaker 3: the highest level for cognitive processing, for thinking, for being functional. Well,
Speaker 3: that's associated with the complete opposite of a depressed state.
Speaker 3: But the reality of gamma frequency being extremely beneficial, So
Speaker 3: we see the antithesis of depression relative to enhancing gamma frequency.
Speaker 3: Out there are other modalities that enhance gamma frequency. It's
Speaker 3: not just laughter. It is enhanced, as we have studied
Speaker 3: in our research shows it's enhanced with a high antioxidant
Speaker 3: food consumption. That is, foods that are extremely high in antioxidants,
Speaker 3: and I'm talking in the range of maybe fifty three
Speaker 3: fifty six thousand micromolls per one hundred grams. Wait what
Speaker 3: that mean much for your listeners, But the reality is
Speaker 3: that it's in the range of the top foods or
Speaker 3: spices that exist in the world as we know today.
Speaker 3: So apparently the antioxidants are doing something in brain that
Speaker 3: causes the induction of the gama frequency.
Speaker 2: And another substance, super high intoxidants seventy percent cacao or
Speaker 2: greater chocolate, This can elicit the induction of gamma frequency
Speaker 2: in the brain. So eat it whatever you're good, doctor's orders.
Speaker 3: We also have seen it with a high antioxygen concentration
Speaker 3: of various nuts, walnuts, pecans, vistachues. So this is missus
Speaker 3: essentially brand new research.
Speaker 2: This bodes well for the turtle industry. Chocolate nut turtles,
Speaker 2: So mirthful, laughter, nuts, chocolate, exercise, all good things for
Speaker 2: your brain and your immune system. So hop on a treadmill,
Speaker 2: eat a turtle, not a real turtle, a chocolate turtle,
Speaker 2: and watch comedians wet themselves.
Speaker 3: So we are now starting to call all of these
Speaker 3: kinds of lifestyle behave years a term called you stress
Speaker 3: metaphors U stress eu for the two letters eu come
Speaker 3: from the Greek, which mean good stress, good stress, you stress.
Speaker 3: It's not a word that I coined, A word coined
Speaker 3: by doctor Hans Celier, who is the father of the
Speaker 3: stress adaptation syndrome and discovered the detrimental folks of stress.
Speaker 3: But before he died, he realized that all stress was
Speaker 3: not bad, that there was something called good stress, and
Speaker 3: he termed it you stress.
Speaker 2: Doctor Hans Celier, by the way, was a badass. He
Speaker 2: was a Hungarian who spoke eight languages. He would wake
Speaker 2: up at five am every morning to swim and then
Speaker 2: he'd ride his bike six miles to work, and he
Speaker 2: kind of discovered stress. He would see patients who just
Speaker 2: looked like garbage, and a lot of them were under
Speaker 2: a lot of strain. So in fact, when he coined
Speaker 2: the word, he's like, oh, it's called stress. He did
Speaker 2: the English wasn't his first language, and he said he
Speaker 2: regrets using stress and wishes he would have called it
Speaker 2: strain because that's more accurate. But now we say stress
Speaker 2: in like all the languages pretty much, Oh except in Chinese,
Speaker 2: where I found out it's called crisis and it's depicted
Speaker 2: by two characters put together, one for danger and one
Speaker 2: for opportunity, which is so painfully accurate. Have you ever
Speaker 2: heard the theory or the just the general assumption that
Speaker 2: a lot of comedians are depressed people? What do you
Speaker 2: think about that? Is that self medication?
Speaker 3: Then a lot of them lived very long lives.
Speaker 2: Doctor Burke pointed out that George Burns lived to be
Speaker 2: pretty old. He died at the age of one hundred.
Speaker 2: And I looked up George Burns plus depression, but all
Speaker 2: the articles capitalized the D and depression, and then I
Speaker 2: realized they meant oh, as in the Great Depression, because
Speaker 2: George Burns was born in the eighteen hundreds, y'all before
Speaker 2: comedians free based crack cocaine and set themselves on fire
Speaker 2: with high proof rum. And I'm looking at you, Richard Pryor.
Speaker 2: I did a little more digging, and this study was
Speaker 2: published in a cardiac journal in twenty sixteen, and it
Speaker 2: examined the lives of almost five hundred people, including two
Speaker 2: hundred stand up comedians, around one hundred comedy actors around
Speaker 2: two hundred dramatic actors, so the average age of death
Speaker 2: for stand up comedians was shorter at around sixty seven years.
Speaker 2: The dramatic actors lived three or four years longer. So
Speaker 2: they think that stand up comedians well, First off, they're
Speaker 2: more likely to die from car accidents, from suicide, and
Speaker 2: from drug misadventures. Also, stand ups tend to pull late nights,
Speaker 2: you know, in venues, they do a lot of travel.
Speaker 2: But also the majority of comedians tend to have a
Speaker 2: few personality traits in common. They have higher than average
Speaker 2: to very well above average intelligence, and some studies have
Speaker 2: laid high intelligence to depression you and some ulosum, but
Speaker 2: humor can also decrease the social distance between people and
Speaker 2: Patton Oswald and said in a CNN documentary that a
Speaker 2: lot of comedians are people that are very introverted, very shy,
Speaker 2: very sensitive to humiliation. So the only way to combat
Speaker 2: that is to go to the one place where you're
Speaker 2: stripped bear in his words. And there's a British comedy
Speaker 2: researcher Gordon Clarridge who said that comedy may partly be
Speaker 2: a form of self medication. So it's important to note
Speaker 2: too that those who make comedy may not always be
Speaker 2: the same people who benefit from it. You know, watching
Speaker 2: a stand up special at home is decidedly less stressful
Speaker 2: on your body in your mind than like working on
Speaker 2: new material for two years, or selling a stand up special,
Speaker 2: recording it in front of a thousand people and then
Speaker 2: hoping it rates well so you get another one again.
Speaker 2: I'm not a doctor, but watching comedy much less stressful
Speaker 2: than making it. So Comedians sometimes they get a little wild,
Speaker 2: but much.
Speaker 3: Like most of us who work for a living, get
Speaker 3: stressed from our work and have consequence as a result
Speaker 3: of the work. And by the way, that's the reason
Speaker 3: you'd get off the merry. Go round periodically and reset
Speaker 3: your set point with the use of laughter or music
Speaker 3: that moves your soul, or some form of appropriate meditation.
Speaker 3: Just watch the crystals, don't hit your head.
Speaker 2: What about laughing yoga? Does that count as mirthful laughter?
Speaker 2: Because mirthful laughter is organic laughter, right, not psychotic laughter.
Speaker 3: There's a controversy of whether laughter yoga is the same
Speaker 3: as intrinsic oriented good laughter yoga is I don't believe
Speaker 3: it's the same thing as an intrinsic experience.
Speaker 2: Are you ready for some questions from listeners? Sure, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's so many, but I'm going to go through the
Speaker 2: best ones quickly. We won't ask all of them. There's
Speaker 2: no way I can ask you.
Speaker 3: All of them.
Speaker 2: But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners,
Speaker 2: going to take a quick break for sponsors of the show. Sponsors.
Speaker 2: Why sponsors? You know what they do? They help us
Speaker 2: give money to different charities every week. So if you
Speaker 2: want to know where Ologies gives our money, you can
Speaker 2: go to aliwar dot com and look for the tab
Speaker 2: Ologies gives back. There's like one hundred and fifty different
Speaker 2: charities that we've given to already, with more every single week.
Speaker 2: So if you need a place to go, donate a
Speaker 2: little bit of money but you're not sure where to go.
Speaker 2: Those are all picked biologists who work in those fields,
Speaker 2: and this ad break allows us to give a ton
Speaker 2: of money to them. So thanks for listening and thank sponsors.
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Speaker 2: Okay, your questions Okay, So these first questions come from
Speaker 2: my Patreon subscribers. So Priscilla wants to know does a
Speaker 2: smile have the same effect on the body as a laugh.
Speaker 3: There is some evidence that a smile elicits a similar response,
Speaker 3: because for some individuals a smile is equivalent to a
Speaker 3: laugh because they're not as overt as others are. There
Speaker 3: is a benefit, just a little adjective here, there is
Speaker 3: a benefit of seeing somebody smile because we have in
Speaker 3: brain what we call mere neurons I'm sorry, maror neurons
Speaker 3: is where we replicate that which we see. And if
Speaker 3: that sounds strange, it's not so strange in the sense
Speaker 3: that as we are walking down on a hallway and
Speaker 3: we see somebody laughing at the other end of the hallway,
Speaker 3: as a group of people, we have no idea what
Speaker 3: the context is, yet we will start to smile in response.
Speaker 3: So a smile does, by virtue of conditioning or creatures
Speaker 3: of conditioning, indeed, canonlyicity beneficial response.
Speaker 2: Rachel wants to know why do some people me, she says,
Speaker 2: cry when we laugh really hard.
Speaker 3: I think it's it's just part of the package. Yeah,
Speaker 3: just you are just overflow, tears will roll down the eyes.
Speaker 3: I mean, one can get into whether it's a sense
Speaker 3: of eyes cleansing himself. If it's funny, it's good and
Speaker 3: enjoy it, cry whatever.
Speaker 2: That's a great lot of Katie wants to know. Is
Speaker 2: laughing something that's developed in us biologically or is the
Speaker 2: origin social She says, it seems like we can't control it,
Speaker 2: but she does doesn't know what the evolutionary advantage of
Speaker 2: laughter would be. Great question, Katie Anderson.
Speaker 3: We are programmed to laugh, We are born to laugh.
Speaker 3: And have you ever seen a three to four month
Speaker 3: old child giggle and smile and laugh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're giggle there's meaty giggle boxes.
Speaker 3: Where did they learn that?
Speaker 2: So it's innate?
Speaker 3: Sure, Yet they can't speak one word. So the brain
Speaker 3: is programmed to have laughter, to utilize laughter. Yet we
Speaker 3: don't do that in our society. In fact, when we
Speaker 3: go to school. I grew up in Canada and I
Speaker 3: spent the first eighteen years of my life in Canadian
Speaker 3: school British system. If you please and education was serious,
Speaker 3: and teacher told me so, don't, don't fool around in class,
Speaker 3: and she would waggle her finger at me. Get serious.
Speaker 3: Life is serious, so we are we socialize ourselves by
Speaker 3: removing that that that reality of being programmed or innately
Speaker 3: born with with with the utilization of laughter. After all,
Speaker 3: laughter is a good medicine. We're told then to get
Speaker 3: serious about life, and we do. Then we pay the
Speaker 3: price for it.
Speaker 2: Laughter isn't something that's conditioned. Rather, the lack of laughter
Speaker 2: is conditioned more.
Speaker 3: So, Yeah, we're we're deconditioned if to remove laughter as
Speaker 3: part of being human. Yet we go home in the
Speaker 3: evenings and look for the best sitcom that we can,
Speaker 3: which is a whole nother discussion of the sitcoms that
Speaker 3: are on television today versus do they really represent appropriate humor? Right?
Speaker 2: What is appropriate humor?
Speaker 3: Humor? Well, it's it's appropriate humor is when we can
Speaker 3: laugh at ourselves without mockery. And today's humor is your
Speaker 3: mother looks like a pig. So we are causing a
Speaker 3: sense of detriment and derogatory meaning to the sense of humor.
Speaker 3: So I'm supposed to find humor that is demeaning and
Speaker 3: derogatory as being now the new definition of humor. The
Speaker 3: question is not just the overt observation, but what is
Speaker 3: then the neuroscience or the psychological translation of that demeaning
Speaker 3: or derogatory pursue? Right?
Speaker 2: Does it cause as much you stress as humor that
Speaker 2: doesn't rely on another's kind of misery or taking down
Speaker 2: a peg?
Speaker 3: Well? Is that degradation now the new norm? So the
Speaker 3: question is if I'm laughing at somebody telling me a
Speaker 3: joke about my mother looking like a pig, and they
Speaker 3: find it absolutely hilarious, that doesn't fit with my biology.
Speaker 2: So remember, laughter follows this perceived threat found to be benign.
Speaker 2: So if an insult comic is to cutting that sense
Speaker 2: of like, oh, never mind, everything is fine, starts to
Speaker 2: be kind of threatened. And I couldn't find a lot
Speaker 2: of research on this. I did a lot of looking.
Speaker 2: But maybe if the jokes are at another's expense, the
Speaker 2: threat isn't imminent to you, So the laughter comes from
Speaker 2: having been spared the insult comics attention. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I myself get super uncomfy with insult comics and roasts
Speaker 2: because like, human beings are so fragile, and it just
Speaker 2: bums me out. But the late doctor William F. Frye,
Speaker 2: who was a Stanford psychiatrist. He was kind of the
Speaker 2: founder of modern gelutology, explained that laughing when someone trips, however,
Speaker 2: happens when we know that this situation didn't ultimately harm them.
Speaker 2: So watching someone stumble like over a pigeon and drop
Speaker 2: an ice cream might be funny because the ice cream
Speaker 2: was the only thing that was really harmed, you know.
Speaker 2: But if the person died in the fall and also
Speaker 2: killed a pigeon, it would be kind of outside the
Speaker 2: playframe and not funny. So we'd empathize with the harm,
Speaker 2: and the threat could no longer be benign unless you
Speaker 2: were a dick and you didn't care or like really
Speaker 2: invested in the ice cream, and that bummed you out.
Speaker 2: Thomas Pico asked, why do we laugh when we watch Slapstick?
Speaker 2: Why is watching someone slip on a banana peel funny
Speaker 2: like laughing at the three stooges causing each other pain?
Speaker 2: Is that funny? Should that be funny?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not sure that the pain is the issue
Speaker 3: of what's being funny. What is funny is the fact
Speaker 3: that we know that we have periodically slipped on something
Speaker 3: and we find that identity. They just take it to
Speaker 3: the extreme that we can identify with.
Speaker 2: When it's directed at the human experience or back at
Speaker 2: ourselves or a surprise factor, it has different benefits neurologically sure.
Speaker 2: Side note my own question, in a current current climate
Speaker 2: that seems high stress lately, do you feel that people
Speaker 2: are doing enough to kind of combat stress of the
Speaker 2: news cycle? Like, given that our new cycle is now
Speaker 2: twenty four hours, we're constantly getting alerts on our phone
Speaker 2: and things like that, do you think people are watching
Speaker 2: enough humor? Do you think it's a good balance these days?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I think I don't think we were watching enough that
Speaker 3: which counter counters the detriment. Do we see society improving
Speaker 3: in its interaction with each other as a result of
Speaker 3: the enhancement of the technology and the communication with the
Speaker 3: media and the news as it is today?
Speaker 2: Right? Not so much? Perhaps here's a theory. It seems
Speaker 2: to be a depressing time lately, so let's laugh more.
Speaker 3: Then, what then is our our stop gap or how
Speaker 3: do we counter that? It's at a molecular level?
Speaker 2: I imagine yeah, that we don't I think we take
Speaker 2: stress for granted so much just it's something that we
Speaker 2: deal with. It's something that happens, and it's something that
Speaker 2: very much is in the mind, but it's not in
Speaker 2: the mind when you consider immunology and autoimmunity as well
Speaker 2: as effective.
Speaker 3: Every thought process, every thought process has biotranslation. There's no
Speaker 3: thought that either we create on ourselves or comes in
Speaker 3: to us that doesn't have biological translation. The question is, then,
Speaker 3: what is the consequence of that translation. It's like a
Speaker 3: fork in the road. You want it to benefit you
Speaker 3: or do you want is it going to be detrimental?
Speaker 3: So it depends what you're watching, listening to, and what
Speaker 3: you're doing.
Speaker 2: I have a few more questions. These are from people
Speaker 2: in your Facebook group. This question came up probably no
Speaker 2: fewer than six times. Why do we laugh when someone
Speaker 2: tickles us? And why can't we sickle ourselves?
Speaker 3: We haven't studied that yet.
Speaker 2: That's a next study.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have an I don't have an answer
Speaker 3: for that.
Speaker 2: So this may not be doctor Burke's wheelhouse, but some
Speaker 2: evolutionary biologists think that we laugh when we're tickled because
Speaker 2: there's a part of the brain called the hypothalmus, and
Speaker 2: that tells us to laugh when we experience a light touch.
Speaker 2: It's the same part of us that says, hey, and
Speaker 2: painful sensation is coming. Someone goes for like a tickle zone,
Speaker 2: like your pits or your feet or your throat. They
Speaker 2: could be killing you with their hands, and laughing could
Speaker 2: have evolved as a defense mechanism to show that we're
Speaker 2: submissive to an aggressor and make the tension go away.
Speaker 2: You laugh at people's jokes and maybe they'll like you.
Speaker 2: They won't get peeved, and you perhaps giggle at tickles.
Speaker 2: Maybe your airways won't get crushed by someone. So thanks
Speaker 2: human brain. Now do other species of animals laugh? McKenna
Speaker 2: ask that.
Speaker 3: Well, they claim, he certainly the chimpanzees have a form
Speaker 3: of laughter. I even think there is one investigator who
Speaker 3: studies from the neuroscience standpoint that rats have a form
Speaker 3: of laughter and they can monitor the frequency and he's
Speaker 3: calling that laughter.
Speaker 2: Okay, go get your eyes on this National Geographic video
Speaker 2: about rat tickling.
Speaker 1: So here's the sound a rat makes if you tickle
Speaker 1: its back.
Speaker 2: The video goes on to note that the rats freaking
Speaker 2: love it. They seek out this gloved hand of the
Speaker 2: researcher for more tickling. They chase the hand around. It's
Speaker 2: kind of like a little tiny sewer dog with a long,
Speaker 2: snaky tail.
Speaker 3: If you've ever seen a dog that's panting somewhat and
Speaker 3: their tail's wagging. They claim that to be some form
Speaker 3: of laughter That.
Speaker 2: Would make sense be given our social relationship with them
Speaker 2: as a means of bonding or communicating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But to answer that question more specifically, one would
Speaker 3: have to look at what is brain doing okay and
Speaker 3: is it similar in response in their brain? I think
Speaker 3: most animals most have some sense of capability of laughter,
Speaker 3: if you please, or I want to call it laughter
Speaker 3: being associated with happiness or joyfulness.
Speaker 2: I have one one last question, but it's a two
Speaker 2: part of what is the hardest thing about your job
Speaker 2: or your least favorite thing about your job? It could
Speaker 2: be anything from like the vending machines in the cafeteria
Speaker 2: to research funding to having to iron shirts to the
Speaker 2: mysteries of gamma waves. I always am curious about what
Speaker 2: the most challenging thing is of the job or of
Speaker 2: life either. I would say the most challenged to think
Speaker 2: about about being a psycho neeuroimmunologist slash slash gelatologist.
Speaker 3: Not having a twenty fifth hour, not enough time?
Speaker 2: What would you do in that one hour?
Speaker 3: Albert Einstein said this real well on his deathbed. He said, I've.
Speaker 2: Only started so that you can't do it all. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a high thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I get asked by students. I asked the students,
Speaker 3: doctor Burke, you know so much? You know and it's
Speaker 3: it's the most humbling statement in the sense. My response is, no,
Speaker 3: I really don't. I thought I knew a lot yesterday
Speaker 3: and but I know less today.
Speaker 2: What is your favorite thing about what you do?
Speaker 3: Everything?
Speaker 2: Everything?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. I'm lucky to be doing what
Speaker 3: I'm doing. I'm lucky to be. Don't ever, anybody in
Speaker 3: your audience, don't ever think because you're so diverse that
Speaker 3: it doesn't pay off. It certainly does, because you get
Speaker 3: to you get to see and think of different perspectives
Speaker 3: that you would never ever have the opportunity to do so.
Speaker 3: And I started, you know, with this degree, and this
Speaker 3: degree is I call it, and sociology and on or on.
Speaker 3: It was so diverse. It all came together when I
Speaker 3: stumbled into psycho or immunology and realized how everything was
Speaker 3: inter twined, interwoven, interrelated, and the reality of the consequence
Speaker 3: of anyone thought, either going for benefit or detriment, is
Speaker 3: very real and that's my choice.
Speaker 2: You are just a new hero of mine. So to
Speaker 2: learn more about doctor Burke and his work. The work
Speaker 2: of Burke, go to his website at doctor dash Lee
Speaker 2: dash Burke dot com and I post links and photos
Speaker 2: at Aliward dot com slash ologies for all the episodes.
Speaker 2: You can follow Ologies on Instagram or Twitter it's just
Speaker 2: at Ologies. You can join all the lovely ologyites at
Speaker 2: the Ologies podcast Facebook group. Great group of people and
Speaker 2: they always have really interesting links and insights into the episodes.
Speaker 2: You can follow me at Ali Ward Ali with one
Speaker 2: L on Twitter or Instagram, and or become a patron
Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash ologies. I tell you what
Speaker 2: topics are coming up next. You get kind of some
Speaker 2: sneak information there and then your questions get asked to Theologists,
Speaker 2: so you can join for as little as twenty five
Speaker 2: cents an episode. Thank you to Stephen Ray Morris for
Speaker 2: all the edits on this episode, and to Shannon Feltis
Speaker 2: and Bonnie Dutch for their amazing work they do at
Speaker 2: ologiesmerch dot Com. I have tons of stuff up there
Speaker 2: that they've helped design and helped me manage, so head
Speaker 2: to that site you can browse the goods. Also, if
Speaker 2: you're near Portland on February twenty second and you want
Speaker 2: to meet the fantatologist from a few episodes back Cole
Speaker 2: and Perry, she's so great. The link for a special
Speaker 2: dinner with her in Portland on the twenty second of
Speaker 2: February is in the show notes, so you can click
Speaker 2: on that. Nick Thorburn did the music for Ologies, and
Speaker 2: if you like it, you should check out his band
Speaker 2: Island or his solo work Nick Diamond. He also did
Speaker 2: the serial theme music Is That Crazy. He's great and
Speaker 2: per usual. I always tell a secret at the end
Speaker 2: of the episode, and I, you know, I thought it
Speaker 2: would be interesting to hear what the hardest you guys
Speaker 2: have ever laughed? So I don't know, tagget Gelatology and
Speaker 2: let me know, But I want to hear what the
Speaker 2: hardest you guys have ever laughed is. I'll tell you mine.
Speaker 2: I think the hardest I've ever laughed was watching this
Speaker 2: video posted to YouTube by a user called food Plot.
Speaker 2: It's about a dog named Denver who eats Cat Treats.
Speaker 2: I just did a whole thing where I thought i'd
Speaker 2: watch it while recording, but it was too much drill cackling,
Speaker 2: so I just deleted it. But it's anyway, It's really good, Okay.
Speaker 2: Asks more people love questions, you know the drill.
Speaker 4: Urbye, Pacodermatology, mombiology, crypto zoology, lithology and zeminology, meteorology, bology, nathology. Serious.
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