Speaker 1: The following presentation isn't del Marvis Studio's production.
Speaker 2: Welcome back treat seers from around the world. It's time
for another edition of the Fact Hunter podcast. It's lunchtime
here in the Mid Atlantic region on this Tuesday, April
the twenty first, twenty twenty six. Hope everybody had a
great weekend. You're doing well. Obviously, the news cycle continues
to churn on peace deal, war, peace deal, war, inflation, inflation.
They try to keep your mind worried and busy with
all that nonsense. You know, I hope you have the
armor of God on and you're just deflecting that nonsense away.
But I hope you're well. Isn't it interesting how we've
watered down our greetings to people. I mentioned this a
few weeks ago. Right, You say to someone, hey, how
are you? And they say fine, how are you?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Great? Never had a bad day of my life, or
whatever the case may be. When you see your neighbor,
when you see your friend or a family member, you know,
ask that with make it genuine and from your heart,
how are you doing? Because I'll tell you there's a
lot of people struggling. I met a family member in Wilmington.
It's about an hour ten hour, fifteen minutes north of
where I reside for a nice lunch on Saturday, and
cruising up I ninety five and we got off on
the Delaware Avenue exit and that there's just this huge
homeless encampment and listen. I used to take that route
to work every day when I worked for Chase Manhattan
Bank in the late eighties and very early nineties. And
here I am. I can't remember the last time I
got off on that exit, but it had been a while,
and just to see that it kind of broke my heart,
it really did. There are people going through difficult times,
so you know, pray for them. And speaking of difficult times,
you know, I'm a very keep it down the middle guy.
I don't try to get too high, I don't try
to get too low, right, And last Wednesday was a
very difficult day for me. Last week had a lot
of hurdles to overcome, a lot of obstacles. You know,
when you're invested in something and someone asked for ideas
and you put in a lot of time and effort
to come up with something to make a real difference,
not just in people's lives, immediately, but in the community
and to make a real impact and to have them
just tossed aside with no reason, just pure laziness. People
don't want to do extra things that cause extra work
that benefit the good both physically and spiritually in people.
I was really beat up and on the verge of
tears coming home and called my wife, talked to her
and the foundation, you know, the foundational people in my life.
I called them and talked to them, and you know,
you have to make a wholesale change in life. Sometimes
that's not comfortable, and unfortunately, sometimes people put you in
and enviable situations that you have to kind of withdraw
your time and effort from. And either way you do it,
you're kind of the bad guy. And that's the world
we live in. Unfortunately. You know, when people's visions aren't
aligning and it's something that you value is supremely important,
then you have to do your own things. So you
got to pray, You got to listen to God, and
he makes those signs quite clear. You just have to
be willing to listen. But the reason I'm mentioning this
is how awesome our audience is. I came home from
that thirty minute try from that meeting, and I sat
down at my computer feeling bad about myself, logged on
and there must have been seven or eight emails from
our listeners just saying nice things like I really enjoyed
last night's podcast, I like your conviction, got your book,
thank you. I shared it with somebody, and it's amazing
how God works. Really, because I was feeling bad for
myself and opened my email, one of the gentlemen actually
reached out to me on Facebook and sent me a long,
heartfelt message, and I told him straight up, I was like,
you know, what do you say kind things for people
you don't understand sometimes what just a few kind words
can mean to somebody you don't know. Even the guy
you see at your office who's always walking around cracking
jokes and making light of everything, he may very well
be the guy who's going through the most and you'll
be surprised how just a couple of kind words can
change people's day. And for me, it was just the
greatest and just thank you all, because you know, we're
humans and we tend to only reach out when something's
not right. When when we go to a restaurant we
have a great meal. How often do we make sure
we leave a five star review and say our server
was fantastic and cordial and the food was great. It's
usually when something doesn't go our way then we got
to complain about it. So God bless you all. That
meant a lot to me so much. It picked me
back up, put me on the horse. I stopped feeling
bad for myself, and I've made the necessary adjustments. I'm
still kind of in the process, but my compass has
been realigned and we're back in the saddle again. Today
we're by the way. Please check us out Foundations and
Faith dot net. We have our twenty four to seven
streaming radio which simultaneously broadcasts our Thursday night eight pm
broadcast on fifty nine to fifty Killer Hurts on WRMI
Radio Miami International, and you can get the book there
as well Foundations and Faith. So, you know, we have
talked about Waco in Oklahoma City at nauseum on this
podcast for many many years. It is something that we will,
you know, continuously talk about as long as I continued
to do this podcast. You know, there are some things
that are very near and dear to me, obviously COVID,
which is still something that we have the chance to
ensure accountability happens. Oklahoma City, Waco, Ruby Ridge. I believe
mister Randy passed recently. If I'm not mistaken, right, let
me just double check myself in real time. But I
feel like mister Weaver passed away a couple of years ago.
Idaho what a beautiful state too. If you've never been there,
you know, we had the chance to go up there
when I was stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado. And yeah,
Randy Weaver was a he was a factory worker in Iowa.
He was an army veteran. Oh wow, it's been that long.
It's been almost four years, twenty twenty two. My goodness, gracious.
But even you know, going on talking about the things
that are near and dear to my heart, you know,
nine to eleven obviously the lies there and the things
that bring about war. And I've said to a lot
of people, a good way to wake people up, because
there's still a lot of people within the church that
want you to just pray for Team A or Team B. Right,
And sometimes you got to sit people down and say, listen,
you understand. In World War Two, you had a German
soldier with a Bible in his cargo pocket and an
American soldier with a Bible in his cargo pocket shooting
at each other because they were told, you know, they
hate each other. And again, if you have to be
told to believe a certain way, you may want to
step back and use your discernment. And that goes for
everything in this world. If you're told to believe something
that doesn't make sense, well then yeah, you should pull
back and kind of think things through before just going
along with the mainstream just to fit in. And there's
a lot of conspiracies that people won't touch because that
don't want to be that guy.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So many of the things we speak about goes back
to the Chabad mafia, right, and Chabad Lubovich is something
that we have spoken about on numerous occasions. Jared Kushner,
Trump's son in law, his father was a big part
of it. It's based a lot of it is on
calendars and you know, Old Testament and sacrifice. That's the
reason we still have all of this nonsense. But there's
something called the Chabad calendar, right, the Jewish calendar that
they used, And you know, I had thought about that
because that's some of the history I've been looking at
and I thought, let me go back to twenty eight
Nissan fifty seven to fifty three, which in the Jewish
calendar is associated with Monday, April nineteenth, nineteen ninety three,
which is the day that Waco occurred. By the way, again,
in the past we did Waco and Oklahoma City in
the same week. I just don't have that time. Chickens
come in this week. I'm in the last couple of
weeks of the semester. I have huge papers that are due,
a lot going on. So this week we're doing Waco.
Next week we're doing Oklahoma City. So bear with if
you would, but Jewish history, on that day, April nineteenth,
Jericho's wall collapses, and if you remember that, the archaeological
evidence indicates that ancient Jericho was heavily fortified, a city
or a compound, and what was Waco a compound? Right? Interesting? Now, Also,
the tour of reading for that day, Monday, April nineteenth,
nineteen ninety three, according to the Chabad calendar, is Leviticus
twelve one through Leviticus thirteen five, And if you look
at verse four, it talks about and then she shall
continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days.
That's thirty three. It is very interesting how they look
at the Torah, right, and that passage again, this is
Leviticus twelve, verse one through thirteen five. That particular passage
deals with purification, separation, the identification of uncleanliness, right, moving
from childbirth to the inspection of disease, on and on.
And if you set that beside, what happened at Waco.
A group was surrounded, examined from outside, labeled right, they
were labeled As soon as you know, the initial confrontation
took place. They the Mockingbird News started parroting the same
terms cults, crazy, and we who were walking zombies at
that time, at least I was God bless you all
who were born with the glasses on to see the
world for how it is. I was so far gone
when I was twenty two years That was ninety three.
I was twenty four years old, But I do remember
where I was at that day. I was a salesman,
had the old you know, the TV with a rabbit
ear antennas on, picking up a Philly station and just
watching that building burn, knowing that that human beings were
inside there and that to this day has stayed with me,
and it's been how many years, thirty three years? And
you look at Leviticus, which was their reading for that day,
and I think this is intentional why they do these
on this day? Right, it describes a system where the
priest stands an authority to make these calls. And as
I noted in my sub stack this morning, and yet
it was not long and thorough as I have in
the past. It's just I wanted to put the effort
into the audio podcast versus the writing. I don't have
the time to do everything right now. But you look
at Waco, that roll shifts into federal power making determinations
about threat, legitimacy, and action. And again we'll talk about it,
but David Koresh was downtown all the time. They could
have simply walked up to him and brought him in.
Even the people when we moved down we lived thirty
minutes from Waco for almost a decade, and still a
lot of people it's been fifteen years since I first
moved down there, but they still felt horrible for those people.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Sure, they may not have agreed with their way of living,
but that doesn't give us the right to just obliviate
these people, right, and that's what happened. You look at
April nineteenth, nineteen ninety three, that falls within the passover cycle.
And again, those folks are still waiting on their Messiah.
Ours came two thousand years ago. They're still waiting on
their false Messiah. They want to build another tabernacle so
they can continue these sacrifices. Right, April nineteenth, nineteen ninety
three fell within the passover cycle. Right Leviticus twelve, The
number thirty three appears in that purification period, marking a
defined span before the restoration is complete. And that number
doesn't sit alone when you start looking at the patterns,
it becomes part of a broader framework. Right. Then there's Jericho.
The tradition that tied the fall of Jericho places it
in the same seasonal window, with that seven day encirclement
ending in a sudden collapse after the final signal. Is
it mockery? Is it just recycled sacrifice?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Waco followed its own drawn out sequence days after standoff,
pressure building negotiations until that final day April nineteenth, when
everything happened. You know, very quickly, fire replaced the collapsing
of the walls, but the structure is there. And when
you bring it all together right with the purification laws,
the appearance of the number thirty three, the Jericho timeline,
and that April nineteenth date, which is known as the
Feast of Moloch, you get more than just a coincidence
on a calendar. And it's something that I think that
that needs to be examined more often. And I'm I've
just started my research into Oklahoma City and that date,
and there are some ties connected there as well, but
it's going to take again a little more research. I've
read this article before on this day and I think
I'm going to do that again today. We've covered it
again at nauseum for several years, but some of the
big points needs to be pointed out. But I'll just
tell you this isn't going to be a three hour,
you know podcast, It's just not going to But we're
going to go back to the founding of the Branch Davidians.
Gentleman by the name of Victor Hutef he left the
Orthodox Church of Bulgaria to join the Seventh Day Adventists.
By the way, this was written by Dean Kelly in
May of nineteen ninety five, So in nineteen twenty nine
he moved to California. Mister Hutef, though not approved by
the main body of the Seventh Day Adventist, he gained
a following with his preaching. He and his followers moved
to Texas in nineteen thirty five. They founded a community
called Mount Caramel in order to follow Hutef's teachings without
distraction from their neighbors and the mainstream society. Right Allah,
they amish, We're just going to detach ourselves into this
small area. Whutef died in nineteen fifty five without seeing
the coming of the millennium that he had preached. And
that is one thing with the Davidians that were very
big into eschatology and times right all the prophetic books
of the Bible. His wife Laurence succeeded him as leader
of the group, which called itself the Davidian Seventh Day Venist.
They announced a new air would begin on April twenty second,
nineteen fifty nine. That's interesting that timeline, and there were
about nine hundred people across the country. They sold their homes.
They moved him out Caramel near Waco to await the end. Now,
according to some it did become a considerable burden on
the public welfare program of mcclannan County, which is the
county in which Waco exists. So again, when the date
come and went, nothing happened. Many of the disappointed adherein
strifted away. And if you're following someone on YouTube or
wherever and they are telling you a certain date, that
is the number one reason to click that un subscribe
or delete or power off button. Okay, nobody knows a
time or date. Now, there was about fifty people who remained,
but they moved to the new Mount Caramel, about ten
miles from Waco. And that's when the leadership devolved on
a gentleman named Ben Rodin, who called his following the
Branch Davidians to distinguish it from another group that had
continued the Plane Davidian Strand. And after his death, his
wife Lois had led the group, traveling and meeting with
foreign heads of state in the effort to spread the message,
And after her death a struggle took place between her
son George and a relative newcomer to the group by
the name of Vernon Howell. Now she actually had favored
Vernon as her successor, but George remained in control of
the colony. So Vernon moved to Palestine, Texas, taking with
him those among the faithful who accepted him rather than George,
as their profit. Whether moving to Palestine or maybe it's
pronounced Palestine like it is in Ohio, I'm not immediately
sure of that. I'm sure somebody will send me in
the email explaining that to me. George challenged Vernon to
a duel. Man, I haven't seen a good duel in
a while, have you? Nineteen eighty seven to prove which
was the true profit now. The form of the duel
was to see who could bring back a long dead
Davidian whose casket was exhumed by Rodin. Now How declined
the challenge and complained to the authorities about the exhumation.
When they demanded proof, Howl and seven armed followers stole
into the Mount Carmel premises to photograph the coffin. Rodin
caught them. A gunfight ended up breaking out. In all
of the eight Branch Davidians were tried for attempted murder,
Seven were acquitted, and How's trial ended in a hung
jury and he was never retried. George Roden didn't prosper
Mount Carmel. He lost most of his followers went to debt.
He rented out some of the ramshackle buildings to Nondavidian tenants,
including two drug traffickers. Roden would be jailed for six
months for writing threatening letters to a judge not a
good idea, and during that time how gained the title
to Mount Carmel by paying off sixteen years of delinquent taxes.
In nineteen eighty nine, Roden murdered a man with an
ax and was committed to a mental institution, where he remained,
though he did escape briefly in nineteen ninety three, and
How's followers, in apprehension that Rodin would return to attack them,
they maintained an armed vigilance against that threat. So now
we're in early nineteen ninety. Vernon Howe legally changed his
name to David Koresh, after the Hebrew King David and
the Persian king Cyrus, who freed the Jews from Babylonian captivity.
He was not the first to choose the letter the
latter name, pardon me. In eighteen sixty nine, Cyrus Teed
changed his name to Koresh. Taught that he was the
Messiah and wrote commentaries on the Seven Seals of the
Book of Revelation. He drew a following of Kureshians, but
he actually was killed in Florida in nineteen oh six
during a violent encounter with a marshal. When Howell joined
the Branch Davidians in nineteen eighty one, he was not
a prepossessing figure. He was dyslexic, he had a stutter,
a high school dropout. He was really obsessed with his cars.
We talked about that in prior episodes, guns, and of
course his rock music. He loved playing guitar. He was
described by one commentator as a tearful, insecure, pesky young man.
He was very intelligent. He was articulate, He was mechanically adept.
He had a memory. He could just call off verses
just right, off right. Some people are like that, just
they can memorize every verse. It's something. Now. Sometime during
the mid nineteen eighties, the finger of God touched him
and within a few years he had matured. He lost
his speech defect and shown an amazing ability to enlist
followers attracted to his Bible based vision and his ability
to articulate it. You know, how he overcame that. You know,
maybe there was a brief time where he was faithful
to g You can't call yourself the messiah. You can't
appoint yourself as the Messiah. Obviously, defending the burning down
of this entire compound of women and children and men
doesn't mean you're defending the person itself. A government cannot
just wipe out, and the correct word would be sacrifice.
You know, just dozens and dozens of people in a
time when they could have simply walked into town and
arrested him. So again, he became to be quite the
wordsmith and the talker. They said he could have sold
ice to an Eskimo, right. He was persuasive with his
message so much that he started to draw converts, now
mostly those who were already Seventh day at Venists, but
they came from many states and foreign countries. Remember there
was no Internet back then. It's not like they could
just go on zoom and meet with like minded people
from around the world. People's faith means a lot to them.
There are pastors in Kalispell, Montana. There are pastors in Jacksonville, Florida,
who mean so much to people they are willing to
pack up their stuff and go to be a part
of that congregation. You know, if people are willing to
move for a job, why wouldn't people want to move
you know, which that job brings financial security? Why would
you not want to move for something that you believe
brings you, you know, that spiritual stability. And there are
a lot of people doing that. They're realizing where we
are in the timeline, and they will do whatever they
can to find a true church. Not one of these dispensationalists,
not one of these not you know, they're afraid to
point out sin, they're afraid to point out hell. They
just want you to show up for an hour, give
you a feel good message, make sure you give your money,
and then we'll see you next week. They don't want
to go into the community and help the poor. They
don't want to clothe people, they don't want to feed people.
They don't want to go up to a stranger. Right,
that's the substack I wrote last week. If you're walking
by a house and you see it on fire, ninety
nine percent of you are going to do whatever you
can within your power to get them out of that
burning flame. Well, if you know a friend, a family,
member that is headed toward that flame. Why aren't you
doing whatever you can to pull them out? Back to
the podcast, David krush inherited a millennial view from Hutef
and the Rodents, along with their authoritarian style of leadership.
His message was focused on the decoding of cryptic apocalyptic passages. Right.
He was always talking about the Seven Seals in the
Book of Revelation. He understood it better than anyone else,
That's what he said, right. And he presented that that
the Lamb, you know, the forces of evil would be
concentrated in the present center of earthly power. Right, that
government of the United States is that Babylonian might who
would be brought to bear against the Lamb and his
elect But the Lamb wasn't going to submit meekly to
the Babylonians. That was his viewpoint, right, The battle of
Armageddon must be waged with maximum effort by the faithful
to draw the heavenly host and bring the City of God.
And to that end, how accumulated arms for his followers.
And that's how they ended up making their money going
to gun shows. That's how they were able to provide
substance to their families and their quote unquote followers, and
again Texas, especially back then in the nineties gun ownership. Listen,
even when I live there, people have their shotguns on
their gun racks in their truck, They're walking with their
guns on their holsters around. That's you know. People have
a right to defend themselves against evil. He was stimulated
in that endeavor by a curious and unseemingly event which
was described in the chronology of a post mortem report
by the US Treasury Department. As follows local law enforcement.
This was from March of ninety two, local law enforcement
conducts SWAT training near Mark Mount Caramel. Pardon me, David
Koresh reacts by bringing back members from California and Engling,
making large purchases of weapons parts, acquiring chemicals which can
be used to make explosives, purchasing envgs, night vision glasses,
night vision scopes, sensors, and then accumulating large supplies of ammunition.
So here's the thing. They intentionally in March of ninety
two held a large training event next to them, so
they felt threatened. So what did they do? Well, they
armed themselves. They saw this three day episode with an
ear range of Mount Caramel as brazen intimidation by the Babylonians.
That was their perspective, and he responded with what he
deemed was strong defensive measures, and then that in turn
brought him to the attention of federal authority. So it
was this escalation back and forth, which again started with
the obvious, without a doubt, obvious brazen intimidation of the
local law enforcement in the swat teams. Listen, just south
of there is it, I'm trying to think on the map,
is it southeast Fort Hood Is? They could have trained
there easily without a doubt. But one of the other
features of the teaching of Koresh was pertinent to the
unfolding of events. You know, there were certain Bible passages
that he clunged to, especially the forty fifth Psalm, the
implication that the Lamb should be united with the king's daughters,
honorable women, the virgins, to beget children who thou miss
make princes in all the earth. So his understanding, which
came to be shared by his followers, was that only
the seed of the Lamb was pure, and that Lamb
alone should be get the children who would rule the
world in the coming age. Now again, you have to
understand that somewhere between what we're told and what we
believe is the truth. To what extent did this guy
believe he was the Lamb, he was the Messiah? Or
was he someone who was just maybe an extreme Seventh
day at ventist who just wanted to be left alone.
I think I say this all the time. One extreme
begets another extreme, and that just keeps trying to outdo
each other until it gets to a point where it explodes.
And with all that going on, right, what was Koresh?
She was the father of what twelve children at least
And of course when the government started getting hold of
the story, they start portraying it out. Obviously, there was
criticism from the outsiders. There was a nine week investigation
just the year before ninety two by the Texas Bureau
of CPS, which, let's be honest with each other. We've
had people on this podcast. You have exposed the system. Again.
Not every person who works for CPS is bad. Most
people are just trying to save children in bad situations. However,
coma the system can be corrupted. We've seen it right,
So again, a nine week investigation in nineteen ninety two
by the Texas Bureau of CPS found zero evidence of
child abuse. Discipline of children did not appear to have
been strict at Mount Caramel, and Koresh did sometimes paddle
the children. I got my butt whooped when I was
a child in the seventies, maybe the very very early eighties. Right,
you heard that the closet open up and the belts jingle.
Oh what did I do? But the children who were
examined by the Texas authorities were found to be healthy,
They were well adjusted, they weren't traumatized, they were educated,
they could speak well. There was a Remember those who
were pictured on the videotape with Koresh made during the siege,
During the siege when most of our children from today
would be just traumatized, they were very fond of him
and very inapprehensive, to be honest with you. Now, new
religious movements often have unconventional marital arrangements, right, the complex
marriage Utah all around the world. Right. Whatever the arrangements
were at Mount Caramel, they were part of a project
of soteriological procreation, which was used by that term was
used by Lawrence Sullivan, one of the government's chosen commentators
towards Smith. The federal reports about Waco, because remember immediately
after this it was a cya everybody for themselves, Reno
Clinton and everybody else at the ATF, the FBI and
all of that, they all went into self protection mode.
No one was held accountable. Right, So again it was
a collective project, joined in by the religious community. It
was an undertaking the treasure husband and disseminate the pure seed,
as he said, as a precious resource for raising up
the airs of a new kingdom. Now is the branch
a pardon me? As the government told the story in retrospect,
its attention was drawn to the Branch Davidians near Waco
in May of ninety two. And I think most of
you remember this from the movie, right. There was a
ups driver. He reported that a carton for delivery to
Mount Caramel had broken open, wink wink, to reveal a
shipment of inert hand grenades. That incident was reported to
the Sheriff's office, which notified the office of the at
in Austin, which is about a little less than two
hours away. Because we were right between Austin and Waco,
it was about thirty five minutes to Waco from we
were in the Temple Colleen area. And then it was
an hour south to Austin's probably ninety five minutes from
Waco to Austin. An agent named DAVEY Aguilero was assigned
to investigate. By tracing ups invoices, he compiled a list
of forty three thousand dollars worth of guns, gun parts, kits,
grenade halls, black powder, et cetera. He contacted former members
of the religious group for information about his activities and
then would end up writing a report in which allegations
once again of child abuse figured prominently right, even though
they'd already had a nine week investigation. So were these people,
did they have a falling out with David Koresh And
were they encouraged by the FBI to say these things
to give them justification to move in again nine week investigation? Now,
the agency's interests lagged until about mid ninety two. There
was a television program on sexual harassment within the ATF
and if you remember, this threatened the agency's existence. There
was a TV show in I think it was June
of ninety two, and there was this mass sexual harassment
investigation going on, and they were afraid this was going
to impair the agency's prospects at the Congressional budget hearings
that just happened to take place in March of nineteen
ninety three. So the head of the ATF said, we
need some kind of good press. We need to get
the people behind us. Right when George H. W. Bush
Oh Poppy, he didn't get the backing of the people.
During Desert Storm, he had to pull out that fifteen
year old girl, Naiir Al Sabah to claim that the
Iraqi soldiers were throwing babies out of incubators. We had
to send our young men and women over there to
save them. And then October ninety two, sixty minutes or nightline.
It was nightline? Is that all? It turned out? She
was the daughter of the ambassador to Kuwait in the
United States. She hadn't even been in Kwait in years,
and she was They paid a talent agency ten million
dollars to coach her as she sat in front of
that congressional hearing that sense and made a lot of
people sick. My father had to retire in ninety four
from the Post office he was so sick from Desert
storm syndrome. He was the first speaker of the Desert
Storm Investigation in August of ninety five on c SPAN.
I still have the seven minute and thirty second clip
him speaking, that's how our government takes care of us.
And you know, God forbid a government agency doesn't get
its contract. Well, what are we going to do to
make ourselves look better? We have to do something. We
need some good press. Hey, what's going on down there
in Waco. So when the fall into the winter of
ninety two, the agency began to plan a major rate
on the Branch Davidians. They worked hard to get to
gain a warrant for the arrest of one Vernon Halle,
who was downtown all the time all the time. They
wanted to search his property for illegal firearms. And then,
after assembling a large number of agents and they did
rehearse for several days, the ATF launched its rad on
Sunday morning. Right. That's what they tell you in when
you're in whether it's war college, as a senior officer,
any historian knows, if you're going to attack the enemy,
you do it on Sunday morning. It's not so much
the spiritual side of things. It's the known one day
week when most people don't get up early in the morning,
that's what they say, right, That's when Pearl Harbor was
Sunday morning, right, And that's what they did. They launched
it's raid on a Sunday morning, February twentyeighth, nineteen ninety three.
And it was described as a dynamic entry dynamic meaning
just multiple facets to the attack. It was impaired. These
guys were well armed, they went to the range, they
could shoot, They were very they knew their tactics. They
lost their element of surprise as well. So on the
morning of the raide, several converging lines moving toward the house.
There was a mile long convoy, a mile long convoy
of eighty government vehicles with their headlights on, including two
covered cattle trailers containing over seventy agents in full swat gear.
And they reached the staging area at Bellmead on the
edge of Waco at seven thirty am. When you see
something like that, if you live in Kansas City and
you're at the whatever grocery store that everybody goes to,
and you see seventy vehicles go by, up armored swat
vehicles go by, your text and all your friends, hey,
what's going on. Back then, they were calling each other
running to the payphone, Hey, what's going on. There were
two helicopters that were supplied by the Texas National Guard.
Robert Rodriguez, an undercover ATF agent who had infiltrated the Davidians.
But they suspected him, they knew he was a plant.
He entered the residents to join them during the morning
Bible study. Isn't that something? And again they say, well,
we did it on Sunday morning because that's the war.
Colleges and they all say, that's when you attack the enemy. Right, Well,
it's a shame number one that you perceive American citizens
azure enemy, right number two to do it during Sunday
morning during Bible study. Again, mockery, It's mockery. So look
you see this convoy driving through the town. People are
calling back. Then people literally called the media directly. Right
in nineteen eighty four, if I wanted to listen to
Van Halen Jump, I'd get on the phone and call
WSDW or WCAU out of Philadelphia, and I tell the DJ, Hey,
you're going to play jump, I Dave, you know George
from Wilmington. Here's Jump by Van Halen. Right, we had
access to the media, and that's what happened. People started
calling the newspapers, the radio, stay what's going on? And man,
everybody starts to converge. One of them, one of the
people who would end up converging, later played a part.
In nineteen ninety five, he played a I should say
he played a role on the stage of the Hoklosahoma
City event. Of course, that's Timothy McVeigh. So here we are.
You got these reporters assigned to scout the scene at
Mount Caramel. One of them got lost and asked directions
from a local mailman. Hey, excuse me, sir, can you
tell me where this Mount Caramel is? There's an assault
about to happen and I got to go cover it.
The man man's name was David Jones, who happened to
be David Koresh's brother in law. So he headed to
the residence to give the alarm. His father, Perry Jones,
called Koresh out of the Bible study to tell him
what David Jones had learned, and when he returned to
the study group, Koresh was visibly upset. He called out
to Rodriguez. He said, neither the ATF or the National
Guard will ever get me. They got me once, will
never get me again. He walked to the window and
said they're coming. The time has come. And Rodriguez, who
was afraid the raid was about to begin, while he
was still in the premises, he said, I have an appointment,
got to go. Koresh shook hands with him and said
good luck, Robert, and he knew that was goodbye. Riguez
hurried out to notify the raid. And if this was
the real enemy, Koresh could have just pulled out a
gun and held him as a hostage. Right, That's it's
not what he did. He knew he was a plant,
he knew he was part of it, but he let
him go. That's something I don't think it's talked about enough. Right,
A real bad guy. And again I'm not I'm just saying, right,
this guy who was about to be converged on by
a tyrannical government could have and I'm not saying it's justified. So,
but I think many people in that situation, knowing that
Rodriguez was the enemy, would have taken him as a
hostage for self protection. And he didn't do that. So
now it's nine am. The convoy gets underway, it arrived
about a half hour later. In the meantime, you have
helicopters that were scheduled to create a diversion. Right, that's
what you do when we're at PODC. When you're planning
an attack, you always have the diversion. You have one
or two guys over here making noise. When enemy looks
that way, then you come from the other side with
overwhelming force. Right. So again, the helicopters that were scheduled
to create a diversion so the approach of the cattle
trailers that were filled with agents wouldn't be noticed. They
were late. They didn't come by, right, They didn't come
by until the cattle trucks were already pulling into the yard.
It was too late to create a diversion. And to
be honest with the a helicopter is going to create
such a temporary distraction. It's just going to raise everybody's
attention and it's going to say, hey, everybody to your post,
and then whoever's on that post is going to see
the convoy coming. I don't think that was ever meant
to be the case. That's my opinion. They claimed it
was too late for the raid to be aborted. And
that is nonsense. You could aboard at any time. There
hadn't even been a single bullet fire. That is the
biggest lie. Well that's one of many, many lies out
of all this nonsense. So again the events unfolded. The
two unmarked cattle trailers drew up in front of the
building as Mount Caramel, and you know, you have all
these agents dressed in these commando suits with ski masks
racing into this compound with women and children. I have
a real problem. And I've said this before. I respect
our first responders absolutely, I do. Again, it's the system.
But I saw a police officer one time at ahuah
Wah in Middletown, and again I don't know why I
said it. I just looked at him and he was
full battle rattle, and I said to him, I was like, wow,
I said, things must be tough around here because I
wore less kit than that walking around Bagdad, and he
just kind of looked at me like whatever, dude. But
that is it should bother you that our police drive
around with you know, they have these uparmored vehicles, they
have full body they have M four's right in the fifties,
if you go by I always say, go back and
watch leave It to Beaver. You don't see police officers.
They have their billy club, they wear a short sleeved shirt.
And then that's basically it. That's because there was accountability
back then, and that was the whole you know, preface
of my article today was accountability. If there's no accountability
on either side when someone commits a crime against people,
where the government commits a crime against the people, whether
it's people against people or the government against the people,
there's no accountability. In the state of Delaware, ninety nine
percent of the time someone commits a crime, they're out
the next day. Sell for cognizance five hundred dollars right,
manslaughter more than five hundred dollars bond. Oh, that's going
to show them. That'll teach them there's no accountability, but
that they want a world that isn't turmoil. It's easier
to govern a world that isn't turmoil because we're screaming
for safety. We have it now. It's going to cost
you a little bit of your freedoms, but you're going
to be safer. And that's how they get down to it. Right.
So you know, at some point, you know the gunfire begins. Koresh,
who was unarmed at this point, I must make that
perfectly clear, open the front door before they reached it,
and says, what do you want? What are you doing?
There's children and women in here, and of course what
does the lead agent do? Police get down? And you know,
sometimes I watch these police videos on YouTube and there'll
be a shootout and they'll just drill the guy in
the chest and he'll go down and they'll continue to
yell hands up, hands up, and the guy is dead
as a door now, and I get the adrenaline rush
in those situations. I've been in those situations, you know,
when bullets are flying, when there's explosions, but not against
women and children. Absolutely not. I can't tell you. I
always get to this point to the podcast and I
start to get very upset. It's thirty three years ago.
It can't change it. But you would think somebody, a
grown man within that would have said this is wrong.
And I'm not saying there wasn't, but it wasn't the
loudest voice, that's for sure. And before you know it,
a heavy fire breaking out from both sides. Two teams
of the ATF agents with ladders mounted the roof. Never
forget that, right, the shots coming through the windows, the
agent getting a hit, being carried down. One team didn't
make an entry, but the other did, but they weren't
able to advance because the gunfower. They were prepared, and
that was the key. I think, deep down all of
this was intentional to get the people mad, and that
way the news could come on and start talking about
cult crazy. And you know, I'll never forget going. We
went out to dinner that night, and I remember people
in the restaurant. Maybe I I just remember. Maybe it
wasn't that day, maybe it was the next day. I
just remember people being, well, thank goodness, those people are gone.
Like that, a lot of people. I'm not saying that
was the overwhelming majority, but there were some people. I'm
just like, WHOA, those wackos are gone. Thank goodness. We
can go back to our normal lives and not have
those people around here again. It's just obscene. So a
few minutes after the raid began, one of the Davidians,
Wayne Martin, who was a Harvard trained lawyer very well
regarded in Waco, he called nine to one one. He
reached the Sheriff's office in Waco, and you can still
find that audio on YouTube. I believe he's screaming, He's like,
what are you doing. There's seventy five men around our
building and they're shooting at us. Tell them there's women
and children in here and get out of here. And
you know, this is repeated on and off as the
sheriff's office even tried to reach out to the ATF
and put him in touch with Martin, and finally, luckily
they were able to arrange a ceasefire and they allowed
the ATF agents to recover the bodies. It was I
think four killed and there was several wounded agents as well.
They withdrew to a safe distance and they regrouped, and
of course there was mass confusion the leadership in the
day again inept. Yes, purposefully, we can debate that, I
think so. I think the goal from the beginning was
to get to April nineteenth so they could do their sacrifice.
That's my belief. When you're in this business long enough
to see how this world operates, these things don't happen.
They're not coincidental, they're not They didn't have a backup plan.
They said this is how it's going to go. And listen,
anytime we've gone on a raid or anything before, there's
a B and C. Right, if we go into this entryway,
if it's blocked off, this is our way, and if
that doesn't work out, this is our exit plan. Right now,
It's like some kid playing Call of Duty came up
with this plan. Now. Of course, the branch Davidian suffered
casualties as well. Perry Jones, Koresh's father in law, who
was standing behind him in the foyer when he opened
the door he was shot. Koresh was hitting the hand
and the side right the famous video of him holding
aside bleeding on that videotape Winston Blake. He was killed
at one end of the building, when J. D. Wendell
was killed at the other, just as she had finished
nursing her baby. Peter Gent was shot and killed in
the water tower. Peter Hipsman was hit inside the house.
Several Davidians hurrying to mount caramel from a warehouse called
the mag Bag several miles away or intercepted by ATF agents.
One was killed Michael Schreider, and one was captured and
one got away. So the next day the FBI takes
over the investigation right, the famous Hollywood movie We're in
George Now. Right. They had mutual recognition that it's HRT
was more experienced. Right. The ATF's hostage rescue team wasn't
quite as seasoned as the FBI's, or so they say.
The FBI established a containment perimeter around the Mount Caramel buildings,
cut off all telephones other communications except with its own negotiators,
and settled down to a patient process of trying to
talk to the Davidians out of their home, which again
was returned as a compound a fortress. And of course
this consisted of several hours the negotiators listening to Koresh
I've played his calls before, where he's literally almost giving
a sermon over the phone to the negotiators, constantly reciting scripture,
and these guys don't know how to react, and they're like, well,
what are we going to do David, And he's just saying,
you guys need to leave, you need to get out
of here, and they're like, well, we're not going to
do that. So again, these negotiations were sabotaged from the beginning,
and the FBI referred to it as Bible Bibel. And
again this is the words that they're throwing across on
the television, that they're intentionally making the Bible sound like gibberish. Well,
if this guy believes the Bible, right, it's not a coincidence.
When you look at the ninety was really the initial
downfall of the church, the numbers are staggering. This again,
this was a multifaceted operation, and one of the intentions
was clearly to trivialize the Word of God. I believe
that one thousand percent that's the Bible babble is what
they called it. This guy Koresh gone on reading these
something about some something about revelation, crazy words. Then they
started to use pressure tactics and they did get some
women and children out. During the first week of the siege,
twenty one children and two utterly women did come out.
And of course the two women were immediately and I'm
not laughing because it's funny. I'm laughing at disbelief, just
handcuffing these elderly women, handcuffing them, shackling them and charging
them with murder. Negotiators persuaded the prosecutors to back off
a little bit. Yeah, my goodness. In the ensuing week
two weeks, pardon me, twelve additional adults came out. They
exited the compound, as the federal jargon put it, but
each such departure would be punished by an increase in
pressure tactics. So what did they do? First? They turned
off the electricity. They turned it off occasionally, and then
shut it down permanently after several adults had come out.
On March twenty first, the FBI announced that it would
clear the ground of the buildings, bulldozing, automobiles, go karts,
propane tanks, and other quote obstacles that stood in the way.
So their private property became obstacles. That evening, the FBI
began playing very loud music over the public address system,
the psychological operations that have been used for a long
long time. Loud music, rabbits crying, you know, all of
these things that they do to make people lose their mind,
is what they started doing. Remember, the government assaulted them first,
could have arrested him anytime, just waited when he went downtown,
rested him, but no again intentional. Korsh and the Davidians
had asked many times over the phone that it be
turned off. About midnight, Koresh announced angrily. Because of the
loud music, no one else would come out. Then they
started the floodlights right so it was constant light into
the building. Then they started playing recordings of Tibetan chants,
Christmas music, the cries of rabbits being slaughtered. Very intense
psychological operations. Beginning March twenty ninth to attorneys retained by
the relatives of Koresh and his lieutenant Steve Schneider were
permitted to meet with them at the door of Mount Carmo. Later,
they were allowed to consult with them indoors for several
hours and to talk with them by phone without Federal monitoring.
During the first week of April, the branch Davidians were
observing passover, which I mentioned at the beginning, the negotiations
were at a standstill. At April tenth, the FBI began
laying large coils of razor sharp concertina wire around the
buildings to close the perimeter more securely. Two men, adult
males and federal leaves had snuck into the buildings during
the preceding period. They had also fired flash bangs these
distraction slash concussion grenades at anyone who came out of
the buildings for any other purpose other than surrender. So
someone came out of the building that were harassing them,
throwing flash flash bangs and those type of things. Just
constant torture and harassment of these people. And throughout the
siege the FBI only approached the buildings in armored vehicles. Again,
this sends a message to the opposing people that you
are in combat mode. That escalates them. Well, if they're
coming with you know, armored vehicle, I better half my
at four ready, right, And the escalation just went back
and forth. By the way, this blows my mind. And
obviously you all know this, but there was nine Bradley's.
You know, these came to for WISEN just a few
years before that. The Bradley Fighting vehicle was the ODS,
the Operation Desert Storm vehicle. Kelsey Grammar made a satirical
movie about Boy if you the taxpayers and the Bradley
Fighting vehicles. Oh my goodness, but they had nine Bradley
fighting vehicles that were built for Operation Desert Storm are
against these people lined up, and of course you had
engineering vehicles. They had a tank retrieval vehicle in case
one went down, they could pull it out. They had
Abrams tanks, seventy five men and women tanks, Bradley's. You
tell me they didn't go there to kill those people.
Reno walked, Clinton walked, everybody in the atf FBI walked.
Half the population were just glad it was over. The
other half couldn't believe what happened. Then they went about
their day, And that's the truth. During the fifty one
day siege, the Davidians made forty one request to the
FBI milk. A lot of it was for the children, right, typewriter, ribbons, batteries.
Half of them I think twenty five were granted. With
the milk cartons and other deliveries, the FBI slipped in
electronic listening devices that gave them a partial understanding of
what was going on inside. Towards the end of March,
the FBI began to consider the possibility of inserting tear
gas unto the buildings. Now, remember move in Philadelphia that
was I think eighty five, where they burnt down an
entire city with the same tactics. They knew what was
going to happen. They knew what was going to happen, right.
This expedient was eventually presented to Steve Reno or I'm
sorry Janet Reno. After consideration that was intentional, by the way,
and consideration and consultation with the President, she approved it. Ironically,
just as the federal government was abandoning hope of a
peaceful solution, that opened up the possibility of such an outcome.
You see, early in the siege, Koresh had promised to
come out if his message could be aired on national media,
and he did indeed prepare an hour long audio tape
that was broadcast locally but not nationally. Two quote unquote
scholars of apocalyptic religion, Phil Arnold of the Reunion Institute
in Houston and James Tabor of the University of North Carolina,
study the broadcast and believe Koresh could be reasoned if
approached within his own frame of reference. Right, you can't
address Koresh with FBI lingo is somebody with who could
match him doctrinally and kind of reason with him that way.
They believed that he would, They could get him to
come out, So again they tried to plead with the
FBI to say, hey, I think we can reason with
this guy. Well, why don't you hear us out? They say, Now,
this is just another delay tactic. We're just going to
go ahead with our plans to use the tear gas.
They did send in writing materials on Sunday, April eighteenth,
and Koresh worked most of that night dictating to Ruth Riddle,
who typed his words on a battery powered word processor.
We went from the typewriter to that word processor. That
was a short lift thing, right, and then just into
computers and printers. He completed a five page introduction to
the Seven Seals, a poem of thirteen quatrains, and a
seven page exposition of the first Seal. Now, at that rate,
Arnold and too Borr estimated he would have completed in
about two weeks, and as you know, he didn't get
the chance. The next morning, the FBI gyas assault began,
and David Koresh must have concluded that his original scenario
of imminent destruction was correct. Ruth Riddle barely escaped the
ensuing fire with her life, with a small computer disc
in her pocket. Late nineteen ninety three, her attorney was
able to recover that disc from the FBI and did
turn it over to Arnold and to Borr, who, with
her help, carefully transcribed it. It is a systematic explanation
of Kureesh's apocalyptic vision, ending with an imitation, I'm sorry,
intimidation of a readiness to come out a seclusion adapted
from the words of the prophet Joel two sixteen. Let
the bridegroom go forth from his chamber and the bride
out of her closet. Yes, the bride is definitely to
be revealed, for we know that Christ is the heavenly
sanctuary anticipating his marriage, of which God has spoken. Should
we not eagerly ourselves be ready to accept this truth
and come out of our closet and be revealed to
the world as those who love Christ and the truth
and righteousness. So what's happening here is Arnold and Toboor,
these scholars are saying in this writing that he was.
They made clear that Koresh did not, in any way,
shape or form, consider himself to be Jesus as many
of the media had pushed that narrative. Right, very interesting,
and that's something I'll leave up to the listener to
discern and study and things of that nature. So April nineteenth,
the FBI began six am to spray riot controls CS gas.
Anybody who's been in the military has been exposed to that.
That is part of your basic training. You go into this.
It's horrible. You go into this building outside far away
from post. I mean it's on pot I was at
Fort Leonard Wood and it was just a building out
in the field. CS guests would be in there. It
was just to show you that your mask worse. You
would walk in with your mask, you could breathe, do
jumping jacks and move your neck around, and then the
drill sergeant would tell you to take your mask off,
and everybody would hold their breath as long as they could,
and then you'd start choking and tearing up, and you
would go out and you would be drooling and choking
and coughing. That was whatever a week five or six
of the army. Ah, the memories almost forty years ago
was just crazy. But again, here they are spraying this
gas into the buildings of Mount Caramel by the means
of too heavy combat engineering vehicles. And remember they had
those long booms with the spray nozzles on the end,
and they did that in order to inject the substance
into the living quarters the tanks. Remember, it plowed through
those walls at several points, and the original plan was
to continue slow spraying over forty eight hours with these tanks.
Are you kidding me? Unless the residents compromised the process
by resisting. Now, as the tank's approached, I'm going to
say this again. As the tanks approached, I'm going to
say this one more time for those who may have
missed it. As the tanks approached, the FBI insisted, this
is not an assault. So for those of you who
are scoring at home coming at someone's place of you know,
their residence with a tank is not consisting of an assault.
And of course the residents didn't submit to this treatment meekly.
They fired bank, they fired back. Of course, a bullet
doesn't do anything to a tank, bing bing right, It
just bounces off, and that's just hearing the gunfire. They
automatically went to play plan be. They're just like, disperse
all of the gas as fast as possible. None came out,
So around noon a fire broke out at several points,
and in the brisk thirty mile an hour win that day,
that place went up quickly. At twelve thirteen, the FBI
called the fire department and imagining knowing ahead of time
you're going to spray yes gas and not having the
fire department just for that alone, somebody should have spent
many years in prison and a loss of all benefits,
pay pension, all of it. We go to a range
to fire. Our weapons are M fours, we have all
that stuff on the standby. We've got the fire extinguishers,
all of it, and the fire department is on standby
ready to go. Nearby. Doesn't take m especially with trace around,
and you have CS gas, which you know, just eight
years prior burned down an entire city. Twelve thirteen, the
FBI calls the fire department. The fire trucks arrive at
twelve thirty four, but were held at the FBI checkpoint
because the danger of gunfire. There's seventy five people burning
alive in there, but we better hold up. Of course,
those probably rounds popping off from the fire. Right by
the time they get there, at almost quarter till twelve
forty five, there's nothing left to be salvage. Nine residents
were able to get out, and they were hurt. Oh
by the way, these people were burnt seriously. They managed
to escape with their lives. They were in tough shape.
They were arrested shackled, unbelievable. After the ruins had cooled,
the forces of law enforcement combed the site for evidence,
and of course they subsequently buldozed the grounds for health reasons.
The remains of some seventy five bodies were recovered and
examined by the Terran County Medicals Medical Examiner's Office in
Fort Worth, Texas. The magnitude of the disaster and the
obscurity of it causes and it's handling by the federal
agencies led to demands for investigation and explanation. Of course,
with any other thing that's happened, Congressional hearings were held.
You know. Clinton took the unusual step of directing the
two cabinet officers responsible to investigate and report what happened.
Right They always it's always cya with these folks, cover
your behind, right, And for seven weeks the public had
been absorbed by daily accounts of what was going on
in this day and age. When something stays in the
news for like an hour, no matter how big it is,
this was the headline for a month and a half.
You had seven hundred I'm sorry, several hundred reporters from
across the country and around the world gathered in Waco,
and everybody had the shot of that building burning to
the ground, knowing that they were women and children and men,
human beings in there. There were a few representatives of
the alternate press. They tried to do independent investigating, but
we know how it goes. Their voices aren't widely heard.
I'm suppressed. The definition of the situation for government agencies
and the media was strongly colored by negative stereotypes about
the cults that had become an end over the past decade. Right,
and they aligned Kororesh and those people who were killed
that day with Jonestown. These people were drinking the kool aid, right,
the Krishnas, the scientologists and all of that. They really
did a number on the public when they should have
really got These people should have been standing in Austin,
which is the capital of Texas, and they should have
been in DC's screaming for accountability. So we know how
it goes. Thirteen hundred pages issued by the Department of Treasury,
the Justice Department. Yeah, we made some marrors, but I
think you know, the people did the best what they
could with what was in front of them, that they
had every opportunity to nip this in the bud before
it got to where it was. And you know, we've
covered the end at nauseum, and that's the biggest part, right.
They had ten outside experts who are invited to comment
on the Treasury and Justice Department reports. You had six
of them focused on law enforcement methods, organizations, their tactics,
but four of them were asked to address the problem
of dealing with persons whose motivations and thought processes are unconventional.
The only scholar of religion to be included was Professor
Nancy Ammerman, Sociology of religion at the Candler School of
Theology at Emory University. She was concerned about the lack
of understanding by the federal agencies of what they were
dealing with at Waco and their failure to consult experts
could have helped them. And she goes on to the
Millennius movement, all the other ways that the communications should
have been handled, on and on and on. But with
all that nonsense aside this, if they didn't want it
to be what it was, they simply could have arrested
him downtown. This was all intention right, and it goes
into ninety four. The federal government brought to trial ten
men one women among the twenty five adult branch Davidian survivors.
The principal charges against all eleven were conspiring to kill
with malice a forethought federal agents in the discharge of
their duties, and aiding and betting such killing. By the way,
another woman, Catherine Schrader, she actually pled guilty to a
lesser charge and agreed to testify for the government, which
meant that they wore her out. You want to go
to jail for twenty five years, you know, that's what
they do. They just sweat everybody until one person turns.
The trial was moved to San Antonio. They had a
anonymous jury selected. Ten attorneys represented the eleven defendants, and
the trial, just like the siege, lasted several I'm sorry,
seven weeks. The evidence that was adduced didn't settle who
fired the first shot or who started the fire, but
some new light shed on the claims that set forth
in the government's version of the events, and some light
was lacking that should have been shed because of the
evidence was strangely missing, some very important evidence that really
could have tossed some serious issues into the government's case.
Just happened to disappear, on and on and on and
just I don't even want to focus on the court case.
It's just a bunch of government agents covering for each
other about you know. Like Agent Craig testified that after
he inserted the first bottle of CS gas, he heard
on his radio that the residents began to fire back.
Apparently he was not aware that his vehicle had been
hit by gunfire because of its heavy armor, and of
course those engines are extremely loud. So he switched to
Plan B on his own and injected as much gas
as fast as he could, and he emptied his other
three bottles. He actually returned to get more, so that
place was full of gas, just full of gas. After impassion,
closing statements by both sides and a lengthy instruction from
Judge Walder Smith, the jury retired to deliberate. They called.
They said, hey, can we hear the tape of Wayne
Martin's nine one one call to the Sheriff's office, And
we need a few clarifications on the law. They debated,
and on February the twenty sixth, nineteen ninety four, the
jury found that all defendants, all of those Branch Davidians,
were not guilty of the most serious accusations, conspiracy to
murder federal agents and aiding abetting such conspiracy. In doing so,
you have to understand, the jury rejected the government's repeated
charge of ambush. The jury did convict five of them
of a lesser offense that the judge had been defined
as acting in the sudden heat of passion caused by
adequate provocation. Almost four months later, on June sixteenth, nineteen
ninety four, the judge convened a hearing for sentencing. In
the interim, pre sentenced reports had been prepared on each
convicted defendant by probation officers. But an odd thing happened.
The judge had reinstated the convictions on count three. Ruth Riddle,
who had been acquitted of all other charges, was being
deported to Canada for overstaying her visa, was tree from
the Immigration service and brought back to sentencing on that charge,
and the other six faced an additional year in prison
or years, I should say in prison. Before sentencing, each
of the nine convicted defendants, they had the opportunity to
address the court one or two asked to retry the case, insisting,
among other things, that the court did not have jurisdiction
and that Janet Reno and Bill Clinton should have been
called as witnesses, but they did not. Others maintained that
they had not been responsible for the deaths of the
ATF agents, and yes, one hundred percent Janet Reno's behind
should have been standing in there for that trial. No
one expressed contrition or remorse. Perhaps the best articulation of
their views was that of Livingston Fagen, the Jamaican who
was probably the only Branch Davidian with any formal theological training.
He said, first of all, there's no doubt in our
minds we are innocent. Never at any point have I
sought to distance myself from David Koresh. His teachings were
from the actions of the residents of Mount Caerma. The
actions that were forced to take were justified given the
circumstances that we were placed in by the actions of
the agents of the government. We were pursuing realities pertaining
to the spirit that this court did not does not recognize,
as they did not recognize two thousand years ago. Right
from the very beginning the spiritual aspect of this was
totally and absolutely rejected. But it was the very core
of why we were out Mount Caramo and essentially why
we acted the way we acted. He closed with this,
we don't particularly care what you want to do. You're
going to do it anyway, But we also serve a
God who sits on a throne like you, judge. He's
got a book in his hand sealed with seven seals.
Men don't know his judgment. Consequently, Mount Carmel happened the
way it did as you have judged, so too, you
will be judged. And we do not accept this notion,
this facade that is being presented in this court that
somehow we have agreed with this judgment, with this sentencing,
with anything that has taken place, We have not. We
are innocent, absolutely, without any doubts whatsoever, we know we
are innocent. Livingstone Faghan declined to appeal his sentence, saying
the Lord would look after him, and some folks did appeal,
many of them under a religious basis, and the government
reiterated its call for maximum sentences for all defendants, and
the judge entirely adopted the government scenario, despite the jury's
findings to the contrary his characterization of the Davidians beliefs
right just laid it out. In sentencing, the judge turned
the import of his jury instructions upside down. He had
told the jury that they could not convict on count
three unless they had found a defendant guilty under count one.
The jury made a mistake and convicted seven on count three,
but not count one. The judge then concluded that the
jury had found conspiracy after all, and bootstrapped count one
into the lesser count three. He threw the book at them,
so by reinstating convictions on the third count, the court
brought this draconian sentence system into the court and some
very heavy court findings. Right these rulings, they added thirty
years to the ten years of voluntary manslaughter? Was it
Reno's Avram forty years plus ten thousand dollars fine? Brad
Branch forty years, two thousand dollars fine, Jamie Castile forty years,
two thousand dollars fine, mister Fagan, who we talked about earlier,
forty years, Kevin Whitecliffe forty years, on and on and on,
but not one. No government agents from the nineteen ninety
three Waco Siege, went to jail, despite all the scrutiny, scrutiny,
despite all the scrutiny, all the investigations, which of course
are done under their guys, their watch, all the known
accusation of misconduct there was. Ultimately everyone was cleared of
criminal wrongdoing for the deaths at that compound on that day. Now,
obviously these podcasts are not all encompassing, right, you have
to kind of pick the main story go with it,
because otherwise it would be forty fifty hours, we'd have
to do several Even the when they did on Netflix
just barely touched and how many hours was that? The
big picture is, we continue to allow the government to
get away with the tyranny that it does, and it
has been doing so for the last, you know, two
hundred and fifty years, and will continue to do so
because they know how to conquer, they know how to divide,
and until we get everybody on board spiritually with the
Lord Jesus Christ, it doesn't really matter. And that's what
we should be focused on, because our time here is
limited and the Bible says we will be persecuted. So
you've got to get you get yourself right spiritually and
everything else will just fall in place and you won't
sweat these things. But it's just so shameful that people
support a government that does this type of evil. Next
week we're going to look into Oklahoma City, Timothy McVeigh,
the Double Explosions, and of course Terrence Yakey is someone
we always recognize every year. Who how that story is
not mainstream. You know, we've got several books going. We're
editing book number two now. I think that's something. If
I can reach out and find his family, what an
important book that would be. But God bless you all.
Thank you for your kind words, your continued support. Please
stop buy Foundations and Faith dot Net. Check out the
radio there. We have a prayer while there. Prayer is powerful,
sure is so? Anyway, We'll see you next week. God
bless you. Keep your head on a swivel, in Christ
in your heart until we meet again, my friends, we
will see you.
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you've had spain. I know you feel the ti hell
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Speaker 3: Don't let call the primis.
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right time?
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Speaker 6: MC, I can see the street beside you. Child's are
putting up the five. Oh you're stronger than any thing.
Speaker 3: You guy.
Speaker 4: You're gonna be all right. You're accepting a bed found
you beautiful. You're shoving a Yeah, you're listen, breathing, move
you can hold your head a pie.
Speaker 7: Don't give up, No, don't give in. You never lose home.
Don't let go on the primies, it ain't done Yet's
God a plaid wat some raintail, the God of May comes.
Speaker 4: Don't give up. No, don't give in. You never lose home.
Speaker 3: Don't let go on the primice. It ain't got life.
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Speaker 3: Give up, No, don't give in? Never les hol do
they goal of the crimes in.
Speaker 5: A done yengest got up playing watch and God of
in a coat and don't.
Speaker 4: Give no dog give whatever its home do the goal
of the crimes. It ain't done. Love's worth the live in.
Speaker 1: Wat's and the God of every cos, oh, the God
of needs.
Speaker 3: Wats God, you're.
Speaker 2: Listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network.
Speaker 3: Just the facts, ma'am.