Speaker 1: Morning. The following contest contains graphic content and material intended
Speaker 1: for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Hey, what's up.
Speaker 1: I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you are listening to
Speaker 1: Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 2: A true crime podcast, And just like that, we're here.
Speaker 2: We're here, and Ben's voice might be a little bit aspect.
Speaker 2: We were struck.
Speaker 1: We was struck by lightning called COVID.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you you so far?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tested positive for COVID today, So that sucks.
Speaker 2: That super sucks. It was like my life going on
Speaker 2: to get the shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this entire pandemic. You and I both made it
Speaker 1: without getting COVID so far until I had to go
Speaker 1: on a work trip down to Vancouver and I come
Speaker 1: home with the corona.
Speaker 2: I might still be safe, though. You might be crossings.
Speaker 1: You may be. I just kind of feel like I
Speaker 1: have a cold, so a little bit coffee, kind of
Speaker 1: raspy sounding, a little tired, very tired, I'd say, yeah,
Speaker 1: fair enough. But other than that, like I'm not any
Speaker 1: sort of crazy fever, nothing like that, you know, it
Speaker 1: just seems like a cold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is really good. Yeah, half of our house
Speaker 2: is sick. You and Ripley. Ripley has an ear and
Speaker 2: Ripley has a nasty ear infection.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so that's our house.
Speaker 2: It's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1: It's basically a containment unit right now.
Speaker 2: In a tiny home. So the rest of us are doomed.
Speaker 1: Yes, you are doomed. You're gonna get sick. You fucked.
Speaker 2: Wow. I'm trying the whole positive thinking thing.
Speaker 1: That knock on wood doesn't usually work.
Speaker 2: For me, but I'm trying it.
Speaker 1: We'll keep those hopes up. I'm sure I'm rooting for you.
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for you, Mika and Kiwi.
Speaker 2: Well, every time you were breathing in my face, Lass
Speaker 2: and I was like, can you turn over, don't breathe them.
Speaker 1: Up, Ice, don't breathe them up Ice. Maybe Ripley and
Speaker 1: I will take our sick asses and just curl up
Speaker 1: on the coach together cuddle all night.
Speaker 2: You would love that.
Speaker 1: Okay, that dog does some amazing cuddles.
Speaker 2: She's a very good snuggler.
Speaker 1: She snuggles like a motherfucker, And you can quote me.
Speaker 2: On that she does. You'll have to pose a photo.
Speaker 2: And then we also have like a ton of patrons
Speaker 2: to think we do like holy Moley. I'm so shocked
Speaker 2: and so happy.
Speaker 1: And with my terrible cold voice, I am going to
Speaker 1: try to not mispronounce any of your names, but again,
Speaker 1: it's gonna happen, and we are so sorry, but still
Speaker 1: we love y'all. Just the same.
Speaker 2: Pronounce the first one wrong.
Speaker 1: Pronounce the first one wrong, just kidding, Poochie there pronounced
Speaker 1: I pronounced the first one wrong, very wrong.
Speaker 2: What did you say, even, poo Hai. I was just kidding,
Speaker 2: like you wouldn't be able to you know, how to
Speaker 2: say that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first one. Your name is little pouchy. If
Speaker 1: that is your legal name, that is amazing. I'm going
Speaker 1: to assume it's not, but little Poochie. Thank you very
Speaker 1: much for signing up for Patreon. We appreciate it. We
Speaker 1: also have sky red red with two d's dope. Love
Speaker 1: that okay, yeah, Donella Girodo.
Speaker 2: Okay, I love that first name.
Speaker 1: Dunnella, Like that's really dope. It's like it's like a
Speaker 1: feminine version of Donalatello. Not saying like you have to
Speaker 1: be feminine to have that name, but you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like French.
Speaker 2: And it's just like a beautiful name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. One hundred percent. We also have a
Speaker 1: Connie Anderson, we have Mandy Mattson, we have Amber Bagley.
Speaker 1: William Warden. That name right there just screams authority Warden.
Speaker 1: It's like, motherfucker, William Warden is in the house.
Speaker 2: It does, actually, it really does.
Speaker 1: It's like when you hear that name, you better fucking
Speaker 1: buckle up. But like, seriously, get your bootstraps in line here.
Speaker 1: We also have Laney Landeros and Josie Christine. I really
Speaker 1: hope I said you guys' names right. We seriously appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for signing up for Patreon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Like when I look to see how
Speaker 2: many names you had as blown away, that is so incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we're up to a total of
Speaker 1: what what do we have on patriots.
Speaker 2: For I think it said one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have one hundred and twenty amazing people support
Speaker 1: us over on Patreon, So thank you very much. If
Speaker 1: you want to join over on the group, the amazing
Speaker 1: group there of those awesome people. Link for Patreon is
Speaker 1: just down on the description of this podcast the show notes.
Speaker 1: You can find it there.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you all. Thank you so much. What else
Speaker 1: do we got to drop bombs on today? We got
Speaker 1: some merch coming out.
Speaker 2: Yeah you posted on instead, didn't you. I did the
Speaker 2: one of the new designs.
Speaker 1: Well Insto and Facebook because they're linked, right right right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I did up a design today because we realized,
Speaker 1: like you know, our merch is we love some of
Speaker 1: the stuff we have for merch, but we have like
Speaker 1: a lot of black and white just kind of stagnant stuff.
Speaker 1: Is fitting, Oh yeah, totally love it, but we just
Speaker 1: want that variety that's spice a life for you all
Speaker 1: out there. So we're going to be launching three new
Speaker 1: designs here, probably by next week because I'm sick with
Speaker 1: COVID and I can sit at home and maybe get
Speaker 1: some designs done up.
Speaker 2: You have some extra time on your hands.
Speaker 1: Exactly, So we're going to do some color designs. Dropped
Speaker 1: one today. It's a skeleton. It's all like nineties colors
Speaker 1: and shit, that's very cool and yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: So go check it out, and you can check out
Speaker 1: the rest of the merch to follow. We'll post them
Speaker 1: all on our social media's and of course you can
Speaker 1: go buy Dope T shirt or something or sticker slap
Speaker 1: it on somewhere and tell people, hey, listen to this
Speaker 1: dope podcast.
Speaker 2: I love the nineties colors same like you're just so
Speaker 2: actually nineties everything is just so fun. What happened?
Speaker 1: That's true? I think that was right where we started,
Speaker 1: like the seat belt era sort of thing, as I
Speaker 1: would like to say it, like where everyone needs to
Speaker 1: like the safetiness, you know.
Speaker 2: Because like, would we be considered ninety nineties kids?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, or do you have to be.
Speaker 2: Born in the nineties. No, we're because we were born
Speaker 2: in the eighties and then we grew up in the nineties,
Speaker 2: so yeah, yeah, we.
Speaker 1: Were born in nineteen eighty eight, so we were definitely
Speaker 1: nineties kids. How old were you in the nineties A kid?
Speaker 2: I was growing up, but I didn't know if you
Speaker 2: had to be considered born in that. I don't think, oh,
Speaker 2: we can never be considered eighties kids, because that's like
Speaker 2: I have no idea what happened.
Speaker 1: In the eies. Yeah, we were at oldest two in
Speaker 1: the eighties, so we were definitely nineties babies, nineties kids,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to say, Well, yes, not.
Speaker 2: I just think the nineties were words at where it
Speaker 2: was at like so fun.
Speaker 1: I had so much awesome stuff like moonshoes.
Speaker 2: Hello, yeah, my goodness, you.
Speaker 1: Might snap your ankle, but you're also going to be
Speaker 1: jumping super fucking high and you're gonna look dope as
Speaker 1: fuck doing it.
Speaker 2: Oh And I just even remember like all your the
Speaker 2: cassettes that you had right like because you were listening
Speaker 2: to tapes and stuff. They're just like sobrightly colored and
Speaker 2: so cool and just I don't know, everything was wicked.
Speaker 1: I never had bright colored cassettes. I had like like
Speaker 1: the pack of blank cassettes my parents would buy, and
Speaker 1: then I just record songs up the radio. I would
Speaker 1: go to like the call in request line, request my
Speaker 1: favorite song, and sit there and wait, and as soon
Speaker 1: as it started playing, hit record and record my song.
Speaker 2: Oh man, you were legit.
Speaker 1: Hey, I was legit.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to look up that one. It was a
Speaker 2: oh Lisa Frank. I don't know if anyone remembers that
Speaker 2: Lisa Frank. It was like stationary that was just like
Speaker 2: so brightly colored. Do you recognize that I lived for that?
Speaker 1: Shit?
Speaker 2: That basically sums me up as a nineties kid.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone else here remembers Lisa Frank.
Speaker 1: But Pokemon and game Boy. That sums me up as
Speaker 1: a nineties kid. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, what else we got is that everything?
Speaker 1: Should we get down into.
Speaker 2: This, I feel like that's everything. Yeah, I'm ready, Okay, Ready.
Speaker 1: We thanked her patrons, We talked about the merch. Let
Speaker 1: everyone know that I have COVID so you can all
Speaker 1: send me sympathy.
Speaker 2: Holy heck, Oh you're funny.
Speaker 1: I think that's it. That's all we got to talk about.
Speaker 1: We're going to go into this case. Now you're ready
Speaker 1: for it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very much so, am.
Speaker 1: Let's dive into the case of swift render, the when
Speaker 1: to Go psychosis case.
Speaker 2: M I know absolutely nothing about any of this, so
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued.
Speaker 1: First off, do you know what a when to go is?
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 1: You have no idea?
Speaker 2: What is that embarrassing? Should I know what it is?
Speaker 1: No? Not necessarily. It's more of a cryptid sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So okay, we'll get all into it. Let's just start
Speaker 1: off here. Okay. So hunger a natural feeling, you know,
Speaker 1: puts your body into a basic survival mode. Now, if
Speaker 1: pushed far enough, it will seek nourishment above all other
Speaker 1: reason in search of satisfaction. The solution is easy, you know,
Speaker 1: of course, But what if you can't satisfy your hunger
Speaker 1: no matter how you indulge your craving effect. What if
Speaker 1: that craving is that of human flesh. The Algonquin indigenous
Speaker 1: relates this hunger or flesh craving to a spiritual being
Speaker 1: known as a when to go, and their lore does
Speaker 1: describe a creature as a giant with a heart of ice.
Speaker 1: Its body is skeletal and deformed, with missing lips and
Speaker 1: toes that caused them to have deep hunger for human flesh.
Speaker 1: And that is a when to go.
Speaker 2: Don't love it, don't love that, don't love it.
Speaker 1: No, that's that's that's a big old nope.
Speaker 2: No, I'll pass.
Speaker 1: I'll pass. No. Thanks on the wind to go past
Speaker 1: the salt.
Speaker 2: Let's me move on something else and the butter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe some gravy down this end of the table. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's that's a wind to go. Now into this
Speaker 1: case of a swift runner. Kakisi Kuchin was born in
Speaker 1: the province of Alberta or what would later be called Alberta,
Speaker 1: and lived in the wild country north of Fort Edmonton.
Speaker 1: He was more known by his name swift Runner, and
Speaker 1: so from here on I will be referring to him
Speaker 1: as such. He was a large man six foot three,
Speaker 1: and as a young cree man he received a very
Speaker 1: useful Pree education. He was a very popular man in
Speaker 1: the Creek community and who had become a father of
Speaker 1: six children. He was mild tempered and was considered to
Speaker 1: be very trustworthy. He was also a very considerate husband
Speaker 1: and very fond of all his children. On top of
Speaker 1: all these trades, he was a very skilled and very
Speaker 1: successful hunter and trapper, skills that would let him, of
Speaker 1: course provide food for his family and earn a living
Speaker 1: with trading furs and goods and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Right now, All these qualities made swift Runner a seriously
Speaker 1: well respected and revered man to his people and traders
Speaker 1: in the Hudson Bay Company alike, So much that he
Speaker 1: even served as a guide for the Northwest Mounted Police
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy five, and the Northwest Mounted Police would
Speaker 1: of course later on be known as the RCMP. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Speaker 2: Jason another pop qu this.
Speaker 1: Isn't here, full marks, full marks.
Speaker 2: He sounds like a dude.
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely good dude. But quick side note, even though
Speaker 1: you have full marks, you might want to come see
Speaker 1: the teacher after class. Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, this and the pre show that is going
Speaker 2: up on Patreon, Like, what's.
Speaker 1: With you what?
Speaker 2: I'm going to run for the hills?
Speaker 1: Wow? Thanks? You know your husband's putting the moves on
Speaker 1: and you're gonna run. I love you too.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I love you too.
Speaker 1: Anyways, with this topic alone, like it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a large shameful topic for Canadian history. Oh wow, I
Speaker 1: jumped ahead something here. Okay, So with this topic alone
Speaker 1: coming up, it's a large shameful topic in Canadian history
Speaker 1: because swift Runner would later develop a taste for whiskey.
Speaker 1: And this topic is something that's still being felt today
Speaker 1: within Aboriginal communities. Extremely unfortunate, but that is where we
Speaker 1: are at today. Studies are still being conducted, but we
Speaker 1: don't think we will ever fully be able to understand
Speaker 1: the effects of the introduction of alcohol like whiskey and
Speaker 1: would it had on the indigenous people. Now, alcohol was
Speaker 1: seen as very profitable for trade. It was a very
Speaker 1: profitable trade item in the eyes of European settlers. It was.
Speaker 1: You know, it's such an abundance. They created addictions and
Speaker 1: problems for those who were consuming it and who were
Speaker 1: not used to it. Yep, and this was no different
Speaker 1: in the case of swift Runner. The more he would drink,
Speaker 1: the more it would seem to grab hold of him,
Speaker 1: building the addiction that would literally only like basically just
Speaker 1: swallow him whole, because he wasn't himself. When he drank,
Speaker 1: he would become violent and rage filled. And a burly
Speaker 1: six foot three man who grew up in the wild
Speaker 1: is not the kind of person you want to see
Speaker 1: become violent. No, definitely fucking not. I I would be
Speaker 1: shitting my pants.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it that way.
Speaker 1: Now, it is said that swift Runner didn't turn to
Speaker 1: whiskey on his own to start with. He was beginning
Speaker 1: to become less It was getting become less of an
Speaker 1: effective hunter. He would bring back less and less provide
Speaker 1: for his family, which is what drove him to his
Speaker 1: drink of choice, whiskey. However, much of the alcohol in
Speaker 1: the area was actually being smegled in under the guise
Speaker 1: of medicine, so it's not seriously yes, so it's scarcity
Speaker 1: may have made it even more alluring to individuals suffering
Speaker 1: from alcoholism like swift Brunner. But it was certainly something
Speaker 1: that was because there was problems with it. It was
Speaker 1: getting banned in areas like that. But of course they
Speaker 1: weren't able to keep up with that.
Speaker 2: Clearly that's too bad. I mean that still happens to
Speaker 2: this day. Oh definitely, people are using alcohol and stuff
Speaker 2: to cope with, cope with issues or that they're having
Speaker 2: or not feeling I don't know, as good about themselves
Speaker 2: or something that they're doing as they should right.
Speaker 1: And there are Aboriginal bands that are trying to take
Speaker 1: efforts in minimizing the effect because I know there are
Speaker 1: areas where like on certain reservations, they don't allow alcohol
Speaker 1: in the premises of those certain bands and everything. So
Speaker 1: good on them for trying to take those steps.
Speaker 2: That totally awesome.
Speaker 1: Now soon though, the violence surrounding swift Runner as he
Speaker 1: continued to drink ran him out of a job of
Speaker 1: guiding with the Northwest Mounted Police. The police would send
Speaker 1: swift Runner back to his tribe, but instead of finding
Speaker 1: a safe place where he could, you know, get better,
Speaker 1: he continued to get worse because he just caused troubles
Speaker 1: for the rest of the Cree I quote unquote turned
Speaker 1: the Cree camps into little hells. He was actually and
Speaker 1: eventually turned away from there as well, leaving little choice
Speaker 1: but to retreat to the wilderness with his family.
Speaker 2: So he was himself was turning the Cree camps into
Speaker 2: little hells.
Speaker 1: Yes, because of his drinking and rage filled fits and everything.
Speaker 1: He was just not doing good for his own community.
Speaker 1: Sort of, Yeah, it was getting bad.
Speaker 2: It does seem like it's one sometimes one away the other. Hey,
Speaker 2: like lots of you're just like super happy or whatever,
Speaker 2: but then sometimes it can bring like evil kind of
Speaker 2: owned people really unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Well, you know how alcohol is known as spirits. M Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a reason they call it spirits because a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of tribes all over the world, in fact,
Speaker 1: look at alcohol as a way of like it's an
Speaker 1: actual spirit possessing your So when you drink and you're drunk,
Speaker 1: that's no longer you. It's a spirit possession. So that's
Speaker 1: where the name spirits come from because.
Speaker 2: Of that interesting little known fact of the.
Speaker 1: Day for you, No kidding, I never heard that before,
Speaker 1: did you, No?
Speaker 2: Because I kind of thought it was something else like
Speaker 2: I've heard before, not necessarily this is like truer in
Speaker 2: this case, but that it brings out your true self sometimes, right,
Speaker 2: But then I don't know if I agree with that
Speaker 2: being his true self.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So anyways, with nowhere to go, in the
Speaker 1: winter of eighteen seventy eight, him, his wife, mother, brother,
Speaker 1: and six children set out and weren't heard from until
Speaker 1: the spring, when swift Runner staggered out of the woods
Speaker 1: and into a nearby Catholic mission. Priests at the mission
Speaker 1: brought swift Runner in and asked what had happened, and
Speaker 1: swift Runner responded very simply. He told him exactly what
Speaker 1: had happened. His entire family was dead. What yep. During
Speaker 1: the winter, while he and his family were surviving the
Speaker 1: cold and the harsh climates, their's food supplies ran dangerously low,
Speaker 1: and their hunting had become less than successful. Oh no,
Speaker 1: Eventually they weren't able to find any food. Slowly but surely,
Speaker 1: his entire family began withering away, and eventually they all
Speaker 1: died of starvation out in the cold forest, all except
Speaker 1: his wife, who he said, committed suicide after they lost
Speaker 1: everyone else.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's rough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, could you imagine being in that situation?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: That sounds just like literal hell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, literal hell yeah. It was the tragic story, clearly,
Speaker 1: but a story the priests had a hard time believing.
Speaker 2: Okay, why is that?
Speaker 1: Well? Swift Runner was a large, burly man when he
Speaker 1: first left with his family and weighing around two hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: As he emerged, he certainly didn't seem like starvation was
Speaker 1: something he had struggled with. In fact, he looked pretty healthy.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just have a terrible feeling about this.
Speaker 1: Oh and what's that?
Speaker 2: I don't want to say, you don't want to say.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna keep thinking positively here.
Speaker 1: Just keep positive thoughts, positive thoughts.
Speaker 2: Everything is positive thoughts.
Speaker 1: Okay, keep those positive thoughts flowing because you're gonna need them.
Speaker 1: So if the story of a harsh winter and lack
Speaker 1: of food supply killed basically everyone, then why was he
Speaker 1: not affected? Why hadn't he succumbed to starvation? Not to
Speaker 1: mention that there's plenty of other indigenous individuals in the
Speaker 1: area that you know, we're emerging in the spring and everything,
Speaker 1: who had a rather successful winter, no problems hunting or trapping.
Speaker 1: The food sources were clearly there for everyone else, So
Speaker 1: why was he having trouble hunting hunting? Why were they
Speaker 1: lacking food? Why did they starve? This wasn't the only
Speaker 1: strange thing that seemed to be going on. A swift
Speaker 1: Runner was staying in the mission. He had consistent nightmares
Speaker 1: and would wake up screaming at the top of his
Speaker 1: lungs in the middle of the Knife Mountains. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine how terrifying that would be to wake up in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night to hear some dude just
Speaker 1: fucking screaming. Yeah, yeah, I would shit myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah I would be running again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nope, I'm out. I'm going to go sleep in
Speaker 1: the bush.
Speaker 2: That's terrible. Well, you think someone was like intruding.
Speaker 1: Or something that's not normal? Sounds no kidding. Uh So
Speaker 1: the fucking terrifying this of that situation aside. The final
Speaker 1: straw that broke the Camel's back when swift was when
Speaker 1: swift Runner tried to lead a group of children into
Speaker 1: the woods with him. Holy heck, something was clearly up
Speaker 1: and convinced that his family didn't actually starve and that
Speaker 1: he killed his family instead. Priests went to authorities. He
Speaker 1: was quickly put under arrest in regards to his missing
Speaker 1: family members, and the police wanted to see for themselves
Speaker 1: where he had stayed for the winter and investigate what
Speaker 1: happened to his family, so they ordered him to lead
Speaker 1: him to the site they stayed where they lived during
Speaker 1: the winter.
Speaker 2: Don't do it. It's not gonna be a good scene.
Speaker 1: No, what do you think? What are you expecting us
Speaker 1: to come across at this scene? Let's hear it. I
Speaker 1: want to know.
Speaker 2: Well, actually, I think that there's probably gonna be nothing
Speaker 2: there because I think he probably hid things or maybe
Speaker 2: there'd be bones. I feel like like he probably ate
Speaker 2: his family. I hate saying that. Thanks for making me
Speaker 2: say that, but that's what I think happened.
Speaker 1: You think he ate his family?
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, well doesn't that kind of what you said
Speaker 2: at the beginning?
Speaker 1: Ish, Well, that's what when I make that up, I
Speaker 1: was talking about a when to go?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that well, and the fact that
Speaker 2: like if everyone's starved to death but he still looked
Speaker 2: like he had eaten all winter, that just doesn't add up.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big old red flag.
Speaker 2: Right, there because if he's surviving and like has weighed
Speaker 2: on and stuff, then why on earth was his family
Speaker 2: not right? Yeah, so this is not a good thing.
Speaker 2: This is not a good scene.
Speaker 1: You're definitely on the right track. Let's put it that
Speaker 1: way right on. So at this point, though, there is
Speaker 1: there is a couple of discrepancies in the story that
Speaker 1: cannot be confirmed. Some sources say that swift Runner took
Speaker 1: police directly to the site, while others say that he
Speaker 1: kept trying to mislead them off the trail but finally
Speaker 1: cooperated after becoming inebriated with whiskey. But the facts do
Speaker 1: tell is for sure that they got there. Eventually, they
Speaker 1: got to the winter site, and the story is with
Speaker 1: what swift Runner told we're clearly not true because the
Speaker 1: findings were nothing short of terrifying.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it was things weren't hidden and stuff, And
Speaker 2: were they using whiskey to get him to take them
Speaker 2: where they wanted?
Speaker 1: Who knows? Potentially? Oh I don't love that, Yeah, me either,
Speaker 1: But at least they got there. That's all we do
Speaker 1: know that. Like I said, there's discrepancies in that part
Speaker 1: of the story. There's no confirming if that was the case,
Speaker 1: but it may have been.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, are you going to describe the scene to us?
Speaker 1: Well, when they were arrived to the scene, they found
Speaker 1: remnants of like, you know, campfire, that sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, people staying there. Okay, But they also found
Speaker 1: bones scattered everywhere, human bones scattered everywhere. Some were broken
Speaker 1: in half in fact, and hollowed out, which could only
Speaker 1: mean one thing. They were being snapped open and someone
Speaker 1: was sucking out the marrow from the inside.
Speaker 2: No, yes, wow, ross.
Speaker 1: They found the skull of swift Runner's mother with a
Speaker 1: small moccasin stuffed inside her skull. It had still it
Speaker 1: still had the beating needle attached to it and sticking
Speaker 1: out of the unfinished words.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, this is exactly what I didn't want
Speaker 2: to happen here.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what is happening here, though, what you just expected,
Speaker 1: like to go into the woods and find snow White
Speaker 1: and the seven dwarves just bacon applepies.
Speaker 2: That's literally on my brain works, and I have no
Speaker 2: idea some is why I'm doing this, and that I
Speaker 2: still have that mindset in my brain. It's really weird.
Speaker 2: Maybe another one hundred episodes it will change.
Speaker 1: We'll see maybe we'll see. We'll see, we'll discuss that.
Speaker 2: When we get there our next anniversary. We'll see how
Speaker 2: it still is.
Speaker 1: You'll probably still be expecting snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
Speaker 1: They came upon Sleeping Beauty, right, Prince Charming.
Speaker 2: That's not a terrible thing.
Speaker 1: No, definitely not. It's it's just, uh, we aren't not
Speaker 1: the world we live in, unfortunately, I know. Uh So
Speaker 1: clearly their suspicions of a murder and b cannibalism were true,
Speaker 1: but they were one hundred percent confirmed the moment they
Speaker 1: discovered a pot full of rendered human fat.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, this is probably where why we need to
Speaker 2: film more episodes sometimes because like the reactions, the reactions
Speaker 2: like you don't even know what the hell to say,
Speaker 2: but it's like your faces at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair. So this is the moment that swift
Speaker 1: Runner revealed what he said really happened. It was the
Speaker 1: wind to go Apparently here he started breaking down and
Speaker 1: he told them he had been possessed by the evil
Speaker 1: spirit and he was forced to kill and feast upon
Speaker 1: his own family. Dang, yeah, now, like I understand, it's
Speaker 1: it's clearly not hard to look at someone and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not taking this seriously. You were possessed and they
Speaker 1: made you kill your family, Reallyboddy, Like, I totally get that.
Speaker 2: So killing your whole family, people wouldn't believe that, Rotaally.
Speaker 1: No, Like killing your whole family and blaming it on
Speaker 1: a spirit like that sounds like a copp out. It
Speaker 1: clearly wasn't going to get him off the hook. Let's
Speaker 1: put it that. Let's just put it that way.
Speaker 2: It sounds like someone with a mental illness.
Speaker 1: It potentially very much could. Yeah. He quickly was taken
Speaker 1: to trial in eighteen seventy nine, and he was tried
Speaker 1: for murder and cannibalism. The jury included three English speaking
Speaker 1: mixed Crees, four men who were well up on their
Speaker 1: Cree language, and a Cree man who translated the proceedings.
Speaker 1: A leading Cree English scholar was also brought in to
Speaker 1: observe the trial and ensure swift Runner was being made
Speaker 1: aware of what was happening, what was being said. They
Speaker 1: took every correct step to ensure that there were no
Speaker 1: language barriers, which I completely want to applaud them for that.
Speaker 3: That's super good, actually, I because I highly expected in
Speaker 3: a situation like this to just like throw to the wolves,
Speaker 3: you know, and just like a trial for the purpose
Speaker 3: of just making this guy guilty.
Speaker 2: Well it was a long time ago too.
Speaker 1: Oh exactly in eighteen eighty. Yeah, and they ensured that
Speaker 1: this individual like was taken care of in the trial.
Speaker 2: That's impressive.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I was very impressed with that. So that's
Speaker 1: really good.
Speaker 2: I really wish you would have not said the bone
Speaker 2: marrow thing, because it's making me like feel like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna like that is just too much. I can't it's
Speaker 2: all that's going through my brain right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: I took my tea and I almost sawt like I
Speaker 2: was gonna not be able to swallow that.
Speaker 1: It's just tea. It's not liquefied bone.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, sorry, let's carry on here.
Speaker 1: I just turned like a marrow in your cup. It's
Speaker 1: not that, don't worry. It's not that it's too much,
Speaker 1: Okay that I'm going to leave you alone with that.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to poke you too much. Now. During
Speaker 1: the trial, swift Runner sat calmly throughout the testimony of
Speaker 1: witnesses and the remaining of the trial that now that
Speaker 1: the testimonies were individuals who talked about how they saw
Speaker 1: the family before they left and went into the woods.
Speaker 1: They described the family being in perfect health, you know,
Speaker 1: before swift Runner came out and said that they were
Speaker 1: all dead and starved. Right, Okay, Then it was his turn.
Speaker 1: His defense told the tale of the Wendigo spirit, the
Speaker 1: spirits being that you know, it terrorized people for years
Speaker 1: and years and in the past of his his people,
Speaker 1: giving the unlucky ones the uncontrollable craving for human and
Speaker 1: it was the when to go that took over him
Speaker 1: and forced him to perform said horrendous acts on his family.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, there was no evidence present at his defense, like, like,
Speaker 1: after all, like, how do you even if it's undoubted
Speaker 1: that these spirits exist one hundred percent fact? Okay, just
Speaker 1: for the sake of conversation, how do you prove the
Speaker 1: presence of a spirit or something like possession?
Speaker 2: I really don't think you can.
Speaker 1: At least not with our knowledge today on spiritual and
Speaker 1: technology and all this sort of like we have no
Speaker 1: way of approving it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't think that you could approve it
Speaker 2: in accord And okay, so was that a known thing?
Speaker 2: A when to go? Was that like a known thing
Speaker 2: to people in like.
Speaker 1: Their tribes and stuff. It was definitely like a tale
Speaker 1: spirit of something that they had in law and legend,
Speaker 1: but not so much like oh, the European settlers and stuff,
Speaker 1: they just inherently know what a wind to go is. No,
Speaker 1: it definitely came from from like the tribespeople think. Okay,
Speaker 1: So when it was finally swift Runner's turn to speak
Speaker 1: at his trial, he was asked if he wanted to
Speaker 1: say anything in his own defense, and he responded with
Speaker 1: one short, simple reply. He stood up, he addressed the court,
Speaker 1: and he said, I did it. And that's it.
Speaker 2: What the it seems like I can't believe what happened,
Speaker 2: Like you the way that you introduced him at the beginning,
Speaker 2: to how he is now, I'm just I just yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the interesting thing that it's like, would someone
Speaker 1: of clear sound mind, as far as we can tell,
Speaker 1: and in good proceedings with the community and everything and
Speaker 1: who he is, do something like that on his own,
Speaker 1: or would he do it under the influence of a spirit.
Speaker 2: But then even him just standing up and saying I
Speaker 2: did it, Like, where's the remorse. And then I'm also
Speaker 2: curious if when they were in the woods and stuff,
Speaker 2: did they have access to alcohol.
Speaker 1: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I mean, like, when you're intoxicated,
Speaker 2: you a lot of weird shit can happen in your
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm going to assume, now this is just me assuming,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to assume that swift Runner would have
Speaker 1: taken whiskey with him, yes.
Speaker 2: Okay, because I was only assume that there wasn't much.
Speaker 2: But I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much or what. Yeah, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to assume that he did take some with him. Now,
Speaker 1: after only twenty minutes on trial, swift Runner was found
Speaker 1: guilty and after twenty minutes of deliberation, they sentenced him
Speaker 1: to death.
Speaker 2: Yikes.
Speaker 1: So on December twentieth, in eighteen seventy nine, Canada would
Speaker 1: make a mark in history for its first ever official
Speaker 1: hanging by the Northwest Mounted Police.
Speaker 2: That was the first one.
Speaker 1: This was the first ever legal hanging. Wow that took
Speaker 1: place in Canada.
Speaker 2: Wow okay yea.
Speaker 1: So over sixty citizens gathered and bared witness to a
Speaker 1: large man who we know as swift Runner. He was
Speaker 1: led to his final moments in the swirling snow and
Speaker 1: the winds of the cold, and his final moments of preparation.
Speaker 1: Swift Runner is said to have offered to perform the
Speaker 1: execution himself if they simply gave him a tomahawk. I
Speaker 1: can't confirm or deny that, but those are stories that
Speaker 1: I have read. But they didn't give in to him though. Instead,
Speaker 1: he was led to the scaffold that was built especially
Speaker 1: for his execution. There waited the hangman. He was an
Speaker 1: army pensioneer who was paid fifty dollars to serve the role.
Speaker 2: Is that that would have been a lot? Probably?
Speaker 1: He would have been a good, good chunk of change.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Swift Runner had a rope draped over his head and
Speaker 1: then it was cinched tight around his neck. Then moments
Speaker 1: later he was dropped off the gallows and as he fell,
Speaker 1: the rope tightened and the sound of a neck breaking
Speaker 1: would have been heard as he was left to dangle.
Speaker 2: Man, this is heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: You good, Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: I just feel so sad for this whole story. It's
Speaker 2: really quite sad.
Speaker 1: It definitely is. I think the worst part about it
Speaker 1: is there's so much unknown we don't know. Was there
Speaker 1: influence on a spirit called wendigo? Is that true? Was
Speaker 1: he an innocent man who has just taken possession of
Speaker 1: and taken advantage of, or was the spirit of a
Speaker 1: wendigo the literal spirit of whiskey and he was taken
Speaker 1: advantage of by the local European settlers are quote unquote
Speaker 1: the white man the whend to go in this situation?
Speaker 1: Or was he really suffering from mental illness.
Speaker 2: Or was he so many options.
Speaker 1: There's so many, there's so many. Was he suffering from
Speaker 1: a complex of losing his hunting abilities or was he
Speaker 1: really just a bad individual? We don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to say it's the whiskey or oh
Speaker 2: I lost the other one mental illness?
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's it's so hard,
Speaker 1: but that's.
Speaker 2: Probably so terrible. I mean, not that I don't believe
Speaker 2: in spirits, but it's like, yeah, how do you prove
Speaker 2: that it's just his word? Really? Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That's it.
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyways, the death sentence was, like I said, the
Speaker 1: first legal hanging in Canada. Now, swift Runner declined to
Speaker 1: spend the night before his execution with a priest, an
Speaker 1: act that was surely meant to give him time to
Speaker 1: repent and confess. However, swift Runner declined and responded by saying,
Speaker 1: the white Man has ruined me. I don't think their
Speaker 1: god could amount to much. Wow, that's brutal.
Speaker 2: Hey, that's very brutal. Yeah, that actually shows some remorse
Speaker 2: right there. I think he realizes, like what happened. I
Speaker 2: think that it was probably the alcohol.
Speaker 1: I think so too, But but I'm not, like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to rule out something like the wend to.
Speaker 2: Go because you can't the.
Speaker 1: Thought of Okay, I'm gonna get a little bit like
Speaker 1: weird here. You know what dimensions are? Right? Yes, so
Speaker 1: we currently live in a three dimensional world.
Speaker 3: Okay, three d yep, yep.
Speaker 1: There's potentially more dimensions around us that we can't view,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really hard to explain. It's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a lengthy process. But long story short, there
Speaker 1: could potentially be a fourth dimension that we live in.
Speaker 1: We just can't perceive it. Our senses that we have
Speaker 1: as humans can't perceive it. Some people say, that's why
Speaker 1: you know your dog and cat looks in the corner
Speaker 1: real weird, oh man? Because they can see something that
Speaker 1: we can't, something that could.
Speaker 2: Be, or even children sometimes they think great exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So who's to say that there isn't a being
Speaker 1: called a wind to go in said fourth dimension that
Speaker 1: we just simply can't perceive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be totally. I just my thought is like,
Speaker 2: if there wasn't, say, up until this shit happened, his
Speaker 2: character was how you described at the very beginning, yeap,
Speaker 2: and that alcohol wasn't in play or in factor at all,
Speaker 2: then I would think that the when to Go thing
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, like way more believable for some reason
Speaker 2: in my mind.
Speaker 1: If that makes sense, Yeah, yeah, I totally get that.
Speaker 1: So on topic of the wendigo, it's actually called wendigo psychosis. Clinically,
Speaker 1: it's considered an endemic psychiatric disorder associated with culture. It
Speaker 1: manifests through compulsion strong attacks of cannibalism cannibalistic behavior, and
Speaker 1: it mainly concerns the Algonquin Cree tribes and people having
Speaker 1: living in the northern obi Wa Ojibois Ojibwa there we
Speaker 1: go I really slaughtered saying that sorry, Ojibois area. There
Speaker 1: are many other stories involving wendigoes and Wendego psychosis, telling
Speaker 1: tales of people who have turned to cannibalism and some
Speaker 1: who have managed to avoid it, but telling their story
Speaker 1: of the visions and the dreams revolving around the compulsions
Speaker 1: of consuming human flesh quite literally, like you dive into
Speaker 1: these halls, it's skin crawling. There was one I was reading,
Speaker 1: and I didn't write anything down about it because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to get into a bunch of other stories.
Speaker 1: But there was one I was reading on a woman
Speaker 1: who was talking about some dreams she was having of
Speaker 1: her brother, who I believe who had passed away, but
Speaker 1: her brother had come back and he was trying to
Speaker 1: serve her human flesh like night after night in her dreams.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'm going back and forth a little
Speaker 2: bit because honestly, like alcohol or not, Like, that's pretty
Speaker 2: fucked up to like each your family.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's fucked up.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: He done did do a bad thing. We're not saying that,
Speaker 1: yeah he didn't.
Speaker 2: Oh no, we know that. It's just like, yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: this is really Yeah.
Speaker 1: There is one final thing I want to add to
Speaker 1: Swift Prinner's story. Again, this is another thing that I
Speaker 1: can't I couldn't confirm in my research, but some say
Speaker 1: that he originally got his taste for human flesh when
Speaker 1: he was out hunting one winter with another hunter. The
Speaker 1: detail again tend to be very you know, up for debate.
Speaker 1: But for whatever reason, they ran out of food and
Speaker 1: in the cold climates, they needed to survive, and so
Speaker 1: swift Runner turned to him and aid him to stay alive.
Speaker 1: And that's where he began, uh the whndego psychosis, and
Speaker 1: then from there moved on to his family.
Speaker 2: Maybe it tastes really good, just like chicken. Is that
Speaker 2: what they say?
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I think it's closer to the
Speaker 1: lines of pork. I think there's actual there's there's human flesh.
Speaker 1: What is it synthesized human flesh that you can try?
Speaker 2: Actually, oh right, I have heard this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we talked about it on another Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. Yeah, and then we talked about, oh hell,
Speaker 2: we should have eaten crocodile or alligator. We should have
Speaker 2: should have I freaking told you to.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to eat with you one day.
Speaker 2: Okay, next time I will.
Speaker 1: But that is the tale of swift Runner, And like
Speaker 1: I say, when to go psychosis, it's a rabbit hole
Speaker 1: to get going down. A swift runner story is fairly
Speaker 1: cut and dry. But again, once you get to the
Speaker 1: stories of the Whnd to Go or the alcohol, that's
Speaker 1: where a lot of if ends or butts and opinions
Speaker 1: come in. So it's major rabbit holes.
Speaker 2: From there, well, I could imagine.
Speaker 1: And as for today, the Whend to Go itself has
Speaker 1: turned into much more of a cryptid kind of like
Speaker 1: along lines of Bigfoot. People talk about sightings of this
Speaker 1: very skeletal, deer like creature with no lips and like
Speaker 1: skull for a head and dripping blood, and it's been
Speaker 1: turned into this depiction of a monster sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Oh really, Like there's actually people that say they've spotted it.
Speaker 1: I mean it's there's no one with proof or anything
Speaker 1: like that. It's more of a in the last couple
Speaker 1: decades tales and stories and probably Internet getting a hold
Speaker 1: of it, you know.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Well, yeah, and they're describing as like a terrible beast.
Speaker 1: Really yeah they are. Well, if the Windygo does exist,
Speaker 1: it does sound like it. Regardless of the new depictions,
Speaker 1: it does sound like a terrible, terrible being.
Speaker 2: So that's true, very true. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was a different one to research.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was interesting. That was very interesting. Well done.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I'm glad
Speaker 1: I got a couple of spine crawls out of you.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've taken a sip of my tea
Speaker 2: since there you go.
Speaker 1: Well, if you guys want to find us on our
Speaker 1: social media so of course, they're all down below. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, Facebook, We even got a
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Speaker 1: down below. You can find it there. We appreciate you
Speaker 1: guys for listening, and of course, as always, stay wicked.