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<v Speaker 1>Hey, folks, we are recording at stable Coin Summit NYC,

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<v Speaker 1>co hosted by PayPal and Borderless Xyz. And joining me

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<v Speaker 1>is Kevin Latinity, who is the CEO of Borderless Xyz.

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin, great to see you. It's always good to see you, Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Kevin. Excited chat with you because there's so much happening

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<v Speaker 1>in the stable coin market and building, and you guys

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<v Speaker 1>are leading on many fronts. But let's kick it off

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<v Speaker 1>with this summit. Tell us about the collaboration.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is the fourth event now that we've put

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<v Speaker 3>together in a series where our core products, as you

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<v Speaker 3>know from some of our previous discussions, is all about connectivity.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>We created the first stable coin payments network in January

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<v Speaker 3>of last year, and then Circle jumped in in July,

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<v Speaker 3>Fireblocks jumped in after that CPN and the Fireblocks network

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<v Speaker 3>for payments. And it's always been obvious to us that

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<v Speaker 3>connectivity shouldn't be just a product, it should be the

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<v Speaker 3>core of Borderless's DNA and our culture. So what better

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<v Speaker 3>way to support a product of connectivity than by connecting

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<v Speaker 3>people in real life. And we've hosted this now in

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<v Speaker 3>San Francisco and con in Las Vegas, from Money twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty and this is now the first time in New

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<v Speaker 3>York where we try to bring together the best in

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<v Speaker 3>the stable coin world for our quarterly client partner, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>kind of ecosystem events. And we're incredibly fortunate that the

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<v Speaker 3>folks at PayPal are jumping in with us this time

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<v Speaker 3>around and are supporting kind of the stable coin world.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, And I'm looking forward to the panels and

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<v Speaker 1>the talks that are happening here today where there's lots

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<v Speaker 1>of different folks in different walks and different markets, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>who are going to be talking about how stable coin

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<v Speaker 1>stable coins.

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<v Speaker 2>It's because we are being.

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<v Speaker 1>Used across the globe to facilitate payments and much more.

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<v Speaker 1>And it seems like the saying stable coins are the

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<v Speaker 1>killer app a blockchain is becoming true and truer. You're

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<v Speaker 1>just seeing incredible adoption.

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<v Speaker 2>It's true and truer.

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<v Speaker 3>So I, you know, was maybe slightly an early adopter

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<v Speaker 3>in the sense that I've been working on table coins

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<v Speaker 3>for a decade now, come twenty twenty six, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>a really long time to say stable coin adoptions coming

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<v Speaker 3>next year, But I feel like we're finally starting to

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<v Speaker 3>see that and you know, even just in the past

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<v Speaker 3>six months really since the passing of the Genius Act,

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<v Speaker 3>We're seeing Zell announce a stable coin, the largest peer

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<v Speaker 3>to peer money movement really in the US. We're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>Western Union announce a stable coins, right, which is kind

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<v Speaker 3>of like one of the largest, you know, international money

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<v Speaker 3>movers in the world. We're seeing Swift announce a blockchain

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<v Speaker 3>initiative at their conference. All this stuff is starting to happen,

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<v Speaker 3>and we're only six months in, not six years in,

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<v Speaker 3>so it's hard to tell how much of it will

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<v Speaker 3>stick or things of that nature. But I think we

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<v Speaker 3>can definitively say that the market is growing. Real traditional

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<v Speaker 3>payments companies are entering the space. PayPal has always kind

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<v Speaker 3>of been a bit of a leader here with the

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<v Speaker 3>PYUSD issue in some of those things, but there's definitely

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<v Speaker 3>now concrete examples that we can point to and say,

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<v Speaker 3>really large enterprise, global money movement companies are doing things

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<v Speaker 3>with stable coins, and that's amazing. That hasn't been true

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<v Speaker 3>the past nine years.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's amazing. The race is on, Kevin, The race

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<v Speaker 1>is very much on. And you know, you mentioned Western Union.

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<v Speaker 1>They were like, hey, we're gonna lauch stable coin in

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<v Speaker 1>Stillana and much more. It's pretty amazing. It's kind of surreal.

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<v Speaker 1>You kind of have to pinch yourself because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just a few years back, you couldn't imagine that we

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<v Speaker 1>were in such a different environment, Crypto being attacked and.

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<v Speaker 2>Much more Operation Chow point two point zero. Like even

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<v Speaker 2>US as a company.

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<v Speaker 3>We're coming up on our second birthday, which is still

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<v Speaker 3>very very young for US, and we were six months

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<v Speaker 3>in and we were wondering, depending on how kind of

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<v Speaker 3>political events go, do we move to London, do we

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<v Speaker 3>geofence the US and start to focus on a payments

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<v Speaker 3>network that doesn't touch anything to do with the US

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<v Speaker 3>and is more focused on like Europe to Africa and

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<v Speaker 3>Asia and sort of those corridors. And then we've gotten

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<v Speaker 3>the regulatory environment that we have now, and obviously we've

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<v Speaker 3>you know, coalesced around New York and the US market

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<v Speaker 3>is very much open, and you're seeing Stripe going on acquisitions,

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<v Speaker 3>freeze of of not just Bridge but also Privy or

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<v Speaker 3>saying fireblocks acquiring.

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<v Speaker 2>You're seeing kind of.

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<v Speaker 3>Innovation is very much alive in the US and the

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<v Speaker 3>stable coin world.

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<v Speaker 1>Kevin, last time we spoke you highlighted the benchmark product

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<v Speaker 1>that the folks at border is built. Are there any

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<v Speaker 1>updates there?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what are you seeing? So far?

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<v Speaker 3>We've been super proud of that product, and really that

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<v Speaker 3>was driven by a lot of customer need that we

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<v Speaker 3>were seeing in traditional PSPs and kind of enterprise FinTechs

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<v Speaker 3>that were saying, hey, borderless, is it true that stable

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<v Speaker 3>coins are better, faster, cheaper. And obviously in the traditional

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<v Speaker 3>FIAT world you have Bloomberg mid Market, you have XC

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<v Speaker 3>dot com, you have kind of all these incredibly neutral

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<v Speaker 3>places where you can see what an indicative FX rate

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<v Speaker 3>looks like between FIAC currencies. You don't have that in

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<v Speaker 3>stable coins before the borderless benchmark. Right, you can go

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<v Speaker 3>to bitso and you can see their order book. You

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<v Speaker 3>could go to open fx and see their order book.

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<v Speaker 3>You can go to yellow Card and see their order book.

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<v Speaker 3>But is yellow cards pricing for ZAR and USDT represent

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<v Speaker 3>of the entire industries pricing?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe? Maybe not?

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<v Speaker 3>And we realize, wait a minute, because we have built

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<v Speaker 3>this entire payments network, now we can start to create

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<v Speaker 3>all this value on top of that payment's network. And

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<v Speaker 3>really the way that we think about our flywheel is

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<v Speaker 3>that you have data these transactions the payments network. The

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<v Speaker 3>transactions create more data, The data creates more insights. Insights

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<v Speaker 3>drive better transactions, which create more data, which create more insights,

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<v Speaker 3>which drive more transactions.

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<v Speaker 2>Et cetera, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 3>And what we said is, Okay, we're connected to over

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred and fifty pricing feeds and we see all

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<v Speaker 3>this transaction activity, and we see all the execution prices

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<v Speaker 3>that are happening across the network. What if we aggregate that,

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<v Speaker 3>anonymize it, and create the world's biggest data set of

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<v Speaker 3>stable coin to Fiat actual FX prices around the world.

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<v Speaker 3>And we've visualized that in this benchmark. But this core

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<v Speaker 3>data set now is about to cross a million data

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<v Speaker 3>points of actual Fiat FX execution prices, rates, transactions, etc.

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<v Speaker 3>And we are powering some very exciting research that is

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<v Speaker 3>coming out about stable coin FX rates from some of

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<v Speaker 3>the biggest brands in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>That's incredible. Congrats on that. And I remember when you

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<v Speaker 1>were telling me about the tool. I'm like, this absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>makes sense. You know, it's you have all this adoption,

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<v Speaker 1>you have all the usage. Where's the data? How can

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<v Speaker 1>we what can we extrapolate from the data and learn

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<v Speaker 1>and our learnings and then that can inform business decisions

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<v Speaker 1>and market decisions and much more. So. That's really great. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>you're working with a plethora of different companies and brands.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you give an example, and I know you probably

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<v Speaker 1>can't share too many details, but an example of a

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<v Speaker 1>company you're working with that is using stable coins and

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing something really cool.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I love nothing more than highlighting our customers.

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<v Speaker 3>And we've been spending quite a bit of time working

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<v Speaker 3>with a company called Bastion. Bastionian has an absolutely phenomenal

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<v Speaker 3>team and they've put together a great product around stable

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<v Speaker 3>coin issuance. We're helping them with the Borderless network on

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<v Speaker 3>global on and off ramps for their issuance, and together

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<v Speaker 3>we're going to be powering Sony and Sony Banks products

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<v Speaker 3>around the stable coin space, which is you know, a

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<v Speaker 3>global fortune five hundred of epic proportions, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the Bastion team's really been crushing it and we're just

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<v Speaker 3>excited to get to be a part of that journey

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<v Speaker 3>and to be part of kind of bringing one of

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<v Speaker 3>the world's largest electronics companies into the stable coin world.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's really interesting to me, they're so big they

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<v Speaker 3>own their own bank.

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<v Speaker 2>That's incredible, right, wow, And it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Really telling to me that they're bringing this product to

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<v Speaker 3>market through the bank subsidiary. I think that gives you

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of insight about where this roadmap is going

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<v Speaker 3>and about the level of investment and the level of

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<v Speaker 3>conviction that they have about stable coins to say, no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>this isn't going to be some like fringe thing that's

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<v Speaker 3>brought into the market by like PlayStation as like credits

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<v Speaker 3>or something like that. It's the actual bank entity that's

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<v Speaker 3>going to be bringing this product live.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's that's incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm assuming they're going to use the stable coin infrastructure

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<v Speaker 1>for both internal payments and mostly for sure external payments, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Without going into the things that that you know, we

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<v Speaker 3>really shouldn't be going into. The roadmap is really exciting.

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<v Speaker 3>The roadmap is really broad. There's going to be a

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<v Speaker 3>lot more coming about kind of how Sony is going

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<v Speaker 3>to be using stable coins.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna let the Bastion team tell that story.

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<v Speaker 3>This is really, you know, their win, and we're we're

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<v Speaker 3>excited to be supporting them on it. But this is

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<v Speaker 3>from from where we sit and all the activity that

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<v Speaker 3>we see happening twenty twenty six is going to be unreal, man,

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<v Speaker 3>it really will be.

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<v Speaker 1>It's exciting as far as your roadmap, what can you

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<v Speaker 1>tease or hint or give to us, you know, because

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<v Speaker 1>you guys are always innovating and working on cool things.

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<v Speaker 2>We are, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>I was thinking about what opening remarks I want to

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<v Speaker 3>give at the summit this afternoon, and one of the

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<v Speaker 3>things I was thinking about is I got into stable

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<v Speaker 3>coins helping launch True USD, which was the first USD

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<v Speaker 3>based us you know, fully reserved stable coin, and then

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<v Speaker 3>Circle quickly followed. And now, you know, I've done a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of other firsts in the past decade, but most

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<v Speaker 3>recently it's been launching Borderless, which is the first stable

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<v Speaker 3>coin payments network in the world. And then six months

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<v Speaker 3>later Circle followed with CPN. So I don't know if

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<v Speaker 3>Jeremy taps my phone or something, but like maybe I

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<v Speaker 3>got to double check into that. But a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the way that we're now thinking about it is is

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<v Speaker 3>connectivity as the foundation and as certainly the core of

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<v Speaker 3>the product set. But now that we're getting all this data,

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<v Speaker 3>these transactions can feed insights. What are the sorts of

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<v Speaker 3>guidance and what are the sorts of kind of advice

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<v Speaker 3>and different value that we can build on top of

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<v Speaker 3>this network where when customers think about borderless, it's no

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<v Speaker 3>longer about oh, if I connect to three or four

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<v Speaker 3>provid through borderless instead of connecting to them directly.

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<v Speaker 2>What features do I lose through borderless?

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<v Speaker 3>Now it flips and it says, wait a minute, if

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<v Speaker 3>I don't connect through borderless, what borderless features do I

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<v Speaker 3>lose by going directly to these underlying liquidity providers? And

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<v Speaker 3>that's what our twenty twenty six roadmap is all focused about.

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<v Speaker 3>The benchmark is a starting point things around back office automation,

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<v Speaker 3>compliance automation, How do you handle RFI as at scale?

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<v Speaker 3>What different sorts of agentic workflows can you put into

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<v Speaker 3>those things? I'll tease the word agentic, maybe we'll leave

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<v Speaker 3>it there. There's a lot of really exciting stuff that

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<v Speaker 3>we're excited to bring to market, and we're wildly confident

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<v Speaker 3>that we are years ahead of where other people are thinking,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's going to be really fun to see the reactions.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm excited to see those rollouts and I get a

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<v Speaker 1>promise that you're going to come on and talk about it.

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<v Speaker 3>For those that don't know, our offices are like three

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<v Speaker 3>blocks from each other. Yeah, so I promise you that

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<v Speaker 3>I will come wander down anytime.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll have me awesome. Final question herefore, I let you gogus.

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<v Speaker 1>I know you got to go take care of things.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think about these banks fighting stable couin

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<v Speaker 1>yield and ongoing back and forth with legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>I think banks have two issues.

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<v Speaker 3>One is, historically they've been terrible sharers of yield.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>That's kind of the opportunity that neobanks took early on.

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<v Speaker 3>Why would you sign.

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<v Speaker 2>Up for a revolute or a chime or something like that.

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<v Speaker 3>It was the allure of high yield savings accounts, right.

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<v Speaker 3>That was the initial value proposition where FinTechs came in

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<v Speaker 3>and took a big chunk out of banks. The second

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<v Speaker 3>thing to keep in mind is that with Genius Act,

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<v Speaker 3>stable coins have to be fully reserved. But bank's business

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<v Speaker 3>is fractional reserves. Bank's business is lending. So stable coins

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<v Speaker 3>are kind of inherently under genius incompatible with the business

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<v Speaker 3>model of banks. And that's where obviously their spearheading tokenized

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<v Speaker 3>deposits right and they're saying, we want to stay on

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<v Speaker 3>a fractional reserve basis. If stable coins can pay yields,

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<v Speaker 3>they become super attractive. If they can't pay yields, they're

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<v Speaker 3>far less attractive to everybody, which gives them a better

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<v Speaker 3>chance of pushing tokenized deposits. Where I think this ultimately

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<v Speaker 3>ends up is you have a lot of different types

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<v Speaker 3>of banks as well, where you have like consumer focus banks,

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<v Speaker 3>you have commercial banks, you have central banks, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 3>et cetera. I think we're going to have different types

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<v Speaker 3>of products at those different levels, and I think commercial

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<v Speaker 3>banks we should think of as tokenized deposits, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's how they're going to interact with each other,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's going to be how they settle.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the world they're going to live in.

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<v Speaker 3>And then when we get into more consumer centric banks

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<v Speaker 3>and we get into moving money in and out of

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<v Speaker 3>the system versus around the system, that's where stable coins

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<v Speaker 3>will live. So tokenized deposits will form the inside of

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<v Speaker 3>the system, and then stable coins will then form the

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<v Speaker 3>perimeter of that system for making it interoperable with the

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<v Speaker 3>rest of the world and the rest the blockchain ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure I'm hoping they find some sort of compromise because

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<v Speaker 1>I know they're holding up the market structure bill as

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<v Speaker 1>a result. Yes, unfortunately, Yeah, but I think we will

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<v Speaker 1>figure it out. And you know, like you were mentioning earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of banks are working on their own stable coins.

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<v Speaker 1>They are, and I'm hoping they can.

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<v Speaker 3>Look.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I believe in the free market, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would love if my bank that I currently use offers

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<v Speaker 1>a great stable coin you'll return.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be awesome, exactly, or stable coin based remittance.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>We've seen Cross River do some full announcements there at

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<v Speaker 3>the end of last year where they said, Hey, as

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<v Speaker 3>a bank, we're going to support USDC as a rail

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<v Speaker 3>you don't need to go to a middleman anymore. You

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<v Speaker 3>don't know you need to go to an intermediary on

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<v Speaker 3>and off ramp. The bank is the on and off ramp,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's incredibly exciting. I think that's what we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to see three four, five years from now, is you're

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<v Speaker 3>going to have banks directly participating in the stable coin ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Amazing to hear banks mentioning or working with stable coins

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<v Speaker 1>and crypto and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a brand new day. It's amazing. It is a

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<v Speaker 2>brand new day.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Kevin, I know you got to go, but thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for taking the time. And we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk again this year, so but.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode is brought to you by Proppy, which is

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.