Speaker 1: Wow, can you believe it? The year has come to
Speaker 1: an end, and now we are into the Christmas season,
Speaker 1: and uh, it is getting colder. The sun's setting much sooner.
Speaker 1: And you know, when the sun goes down early, even
Speaker 1: though it's like five o'clock, I want to go to bed.
Speaker 1: I just equate darkness to sleepy time. And so it's
Speaker 1: a challenge to get much done after that five o'clock hour.
Speaker 1: But it's also festive and it's a time to meet
Speaker 1: with friends and family. You know, one of my favorite drinks,
Speaker 1: and I'm not a big brandy person, but if you
Speaker 1: ever had an egg nug brandy with the cinnamon or
Speaker 1: nutmeg on the top, oh my god, those are addicting.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, you're down too, and you're wondering
Speaker 1: why you can't walk straight because of the brandy. But
Speaker 1: boy do they taste good. Oh my god, brandy egg nug.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's time for all the big goods
Speaker 1: and the cakes and the pastries and the candies. Oh god.
Speaker 1: I really enjoy the festivities of Christmas because it's a
Speaker 1: chance to get together with family and it's fun to reminisce. Hey,
Speaker 1: this is Cliff, your host of Earth Ancients, and the
Speaker 1: year is coming to an end, but we have quite
Speaker 1: a month for you to consider and to enjoy episodes
Speaker 1: to the end of the month, and it's time to
Speaker 1: be thinking about how the year went. And it was
Speaker 1: a good year for us here Earth Ancients and for Destiny,
Speaker 1: and the special editions of Earth Ancients have been fun too.
Speaker 1: So I want to mention that if you are reading
Speaker 1: or have watched a video or a lecture of an
Speaker 1: author or a presenter that you think would be a
Speaker 1: good fit for Earth Ancients, I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: I really would send me an email. Send it to
Speaker 1: Earth Ancients, the number four, the letter you at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com, and I'll take it under suggestion because I
Speaker 1: occasionally will get an email from someone who says, hey,
Speaker 1: have you heard of this person? And I mean, there's
Speaker 1: no way I can possibly know everybody, And you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be somebody who's a published author.
Speaker 1: We take a lot of researchers who have discovered something
Speaker 1: about the ancient past, about history, and obviously if it
Speaker 1: doesn't fit with Earth Ancients, it might fit with Destiny,
Speaker 1: because remember Destiny is the little sister to Earth Ancients.
Speaker 1: When you look at destiny, these are stories episodes where
Speaker 1: we're looking at our ancestral past, and that means you know, meditation, healing, wellness,
Speaker 1: and then the paranormal where you're having psychic awareness, the
Speaker 1: Akashik records that we talk about a great deal and
Speaker 1: everything in between. So you might be surprised if we
Speaker 1: find a suggestion from someone might end up on destiny.
Speaker 1: So think about that. Send me an email Earth Ancients
Speaker 1: the number four the letter you at gmail dot com
Speaker 1: and we'll definitely get back to you. Today's program is
Speaker 1: with our friend the Chilean historian Raphael Eisman, and it
Speaker 1: is regarding a historian who just passed away. She's an
Speaker 1: Ecuadorian historian, Ruth Rodriguez Sudemayer, who wrote a number of
Speaker 1: books that were not in English. So this is why
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of her work. But she was an
Speaker 1: ancient prehistory historian and found a number of records in
Speaker 1: stone tablets. And it's a fascination to Raphael because he's
Speaker 1: also a scholar of early prehistory before we have records,
Speaker 1: and what he found through her work is that prior
Speaker 1: to our history, there were six different ancient writing systems,
Speaker 1: and they included cuneiform, which are those stone tablets we see,
Speaker 1: I should say, excuse me, there are clay tablets that
Speaker 1: we see in the Middle East. Sumerian Babylonian hieroglyphics was
Speaker 1: another type, and we see that with Maya picturegraphs with
Speaker 1: certain South American civilizations. But there's other types of written
Speaker 1: communication that go way, way, way, way way back in history.
Speaker 1: And some of the other things that we'll discuss today
Speaker 1: are just fascinating and really touch on mass migrations. And
Speaker 1: this is a problem for archaeologists today. They simply cannot
Speaker 1: contend with the idea that ancient people migrated from Europe, Africa, Australia, China,
Speaker 1: perhaps even Japan to the Americas. They just can't conceive
Speaker 1: of it. And I remember the great Mayanist Michael Cole,
Speaker 1: when asked why the Southeast Asian the Khmer pyramids look
Speaker 1: so similar to many of the Guatemalan Maya pyramids. In fact,
Speaker 1: some of them will look like Aztec pyramids. And my
Speaker 1: thought was, well, there was a master blueprint of some
Speaker 1: kind that they were given on the engineering, because when
Speaker 1: you build a pyramid, you have heavy stone foundations and
Speaker 1: then you stack the stones in such a way that
Speaker 1: it supports itself. Well, that's an engineering feat. You just
Speaker 1: don't do that randomly. And he summarily just dismissed it.
Speaker 1: He says, we just don't believe that it's possible. And
Speaker 1: this is the issue, This is the issue that we
Speaker 1: have with the academic world, is that they, with their
Speaker 1: own eyes can't conceive of pyramids being similar. Now Ed
Speaker 1: Barnhardt is a little more flexible, but he still falls
Speaker 1: in line with the traditions of academic science, which is,
Speaker 1: if it's been talked about for one hundred and fifty years,
Speaker 1: there's no breakthroughs that would that would change their minds.
Speaker 1: And this is a huge problem. Now, what I do
Speaker 1: and I really appreciate Ed Barham by the way, what
Speaker 1: I do have to say is that they and he
Speaker 1: even admits it, we only we know less than one
Speaker 1: percent about the Maya. And I always say this is
Speaker 1: that you know, it's not even Maya, is not even
Speaker 1: the name of the true name of the people. It's
Speaker 1: a name that the Spanish gave the Native Americans, the
Speaker 1: indigenous people that they discovered when they landed in the Americas.
Speaker 1: So anyhow, I think you're going to enjoy today's program.
Speaker 1: Raphael's coming to us from Ukraine where he's studying and
Speaker 1: researching for a new book. So it's a good connection though.
Speaker 1: I think you'll like it. So today's program is Echoes
Speaker 1: of an Unknown History, and my guest is Raphael Heisman.
Speaker 1: You know, it used to be that you take a
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Speaker 1: us at checkout. I was recently looking at an article
Speaker 1: in Ancient American magazine and our friend, the Chilean historian
Speaker 1: Raphael Heisman, had written an article called Echoes of the
Speaker 1: Unknown History the American Origins of civilization, and I thought
Speaker 1: to myself, this is fascinating. And then on top of that,
Speaker 1: Wayne may the publisher, sent me an email said, Cliff,
Speaker 1: you have to have Raphael on the program to talk
Speaker 1: about this. And this article centers around a researcher from Ecuador.
Speaker 1: Her name was she just passed away. Her name was
Speaker 1: Ruth Rodriguez Sodo Mayor. And not only did she write
Speaker 1: one book, but she actually did intensive research using ancient
Speaker 1: document and stone tablets that are first of all unknown
Speaker 1: but priceless. So we have Raphael coming to us today
Speaker 1: from would you believe? Ukraine? I was just joking with him.
Speaker 1: He's coming to us from war Tarn, Ukraine. Because why
Speaker 1: because there's amazing museums there.
Speaker 2: And he has.
Speaker 1: Hey, Raphael, welcome back to Earth. Ancients, man, how you
Speaker 1: doing what's going on in Ukraine? Thanking so much from
Speaker 1: the invitation?
Speaker 2: You know, I love to be part of of the ancients,
Speaker 2: And yes at the present moments, I mean Ukraine, yes,
Speaker 2: and studying a lot of things here as well. And yes,
Speaker 2: you have talked about our ultra Gregos Toto Matior, which
Speaker 2: was an amazing researcher from Ecuador and g opened up
Speaker 2: field of research that I have seen two in history,
Speaker 2: which is a little bit of a you know, but
Speaker 2: I would do all. We can talk about this now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me just ask you, how did you get
Speaker 1: into Ukraine? Uh as as a foreigner? I mean are
Speaker 1: they allowing foreigners?
Speaker 2: In course there's people from it all in the world here,
Speaker 2: I would say, I don't know, but yeah, I always
Speaker 2: this is my second time in Ukraine. The first time
Speaker 2: that was last year, and I've always come from Poland,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Via Poland.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, we'll have to ask you some other time
Speaker 1: about it. Talk about Ruth's research. Was she I mean,
Speaker 1: you're right that she is a librarian, but she was
Speaker 1: also an ancient researcher of history.
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you, Rudroor. She was a librarian
Speaker 2: from Ecuador, from Guayaquio in I I understand, she studies
Speaker 2: who were in some universities, some academic institutions in Madrid,
Speaker 2: and then she stayed. She actually spent most of her
Speaker 2: life in faint and she was very interested into the ancient,
Speaker 2: you know, ancestral parismanic world. And in Madrid, we had
Speaker 2: this amazing, amazing a museum, uh Bouselle the Last Americas,
Speaker 2: the America's Music, that contains a huge collection of you know,
Speaker 2: like objects and archeological artifacts. And I don't go Ruth
Speaker 2: telling you a lot how she got into this, you know,
Speaker 2: and she started to quote really some of the symbols,
Speaker 2: some of the messages that were what where the other
Speaker 2: you know, uh, in these archaeological artifacts. So what she
Speaker 2: did isolate them, you know, these these symbols, these ancient
Speaker 2: sacred alphabets, into you know, our world. That's what basically
Speaker 2: was what I would did you know?
Speaker 1: So the that museum is that museum, uh filled with
Speaker 1: a lot of the Spanish items they brought back from America.
Speaker 2: Totally totally It's like America.
Speaker 3: It's I have no idea. I think I feel like
Speaker 3: four or five hours there. It's huge, huge, Yeah, got
Speaker 3: a lot of wonderful things.
Speaker 2: Is that I do not I do not think that
Speaker 2: most of the archeologists and anthropologists from South America are
Speaker 2: aware of you know, there's there are amazing, amazing objects there.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you write in your article that after fourteen
Speaker 1: ninety two, which is when Christopher Columbus was in the
Speaker 1: America's history, was manipulated by the Church. What does that mean?
Speaker 2: I was just talking about this subject, I would say,
Speaker 2: one hour, two hours ago. How can we even come
Speaker 2: up with the idea that Columbus or whoever quote discover
Speaker 2: America clear archaeological evidence in the America of Chinese presence
Speaker 2: of African presses of the vikings? So how does it work?
Speaker 2: So at one point, uh, there was some sort of
Speaker 2: agreement and uh it was a state that you know,
Speaker 2: America was discovered and that had a political and religious goal,
Speaker 2: that is the conquest, you know, and through that you say, okay,
Speaker 2: we're gonna have this, We're gonna startlish things, and everything
Speaker 2: would be you know fresh nim and I must say,
Speaker 2: having a European background. It's very hard for me to
Speaker 2: understand how this so called clash of the world, you
Speaker 2: know there is the Western world in the Native American
Speaker 2: world would deal with each other. That is, I'm from
Speaker 2: one day to another, everything really changed. You know, we
Speaker 2: had the Aztecs. And I'm not idealizing any ancient cyberalization
Speaker 2: at all or any culture. I'm just I'm a historian,
Speaker 2: so my my, my video. But it is just as
Speaker 2: if I were a photographer South America and the same thing.
Speaker 2: So you have people that came from Europe, you know,
Speaker 2: and they just destroy everything, absolutely everything. And if you
Speaker 2: think from from a point of view of history, and
Speaker 2: that's the first m layer of our world, you know,
Speaker 2: a geographical unity, uh, then fire through sword, we have
Speaker 2: a religious level. Then you have an economical level, and
Speaker 2: then you have eighteenth century, nineteenth century, and then you
Speaker 2: have twenty century, and then we have what our modern world.
Speaker 2: So for me, it's some strange so old like to
Speaker 2: see how it looks like if it was all programmed
Speaker 2: sort to say, you know, and that's why I questioned
Speaker 2: this concept of fourteen ninety two, like fourteen eighty two
Speaker 2: as a quote that discoverage America because, as I say,
Speaker 2: we have.
Speaker 4: Evidence, we have archeological aliens throughout the Americas Eastern coast,
Speaker 4: Western codes of the presence of our cultures, you know,
Speaker 4: in our continents.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So what was Ruth's interest in prehistory, because that's what
Speaker 1: her her specialty is pre ETI delivery deliveral history.
Speaker 2: The pre the pre flawed. Yes, Ruth, Well, she got,
Speaker 2: she got very I would say she got. Her focus
Speaker 2: was on the the tradition of the white gods, you know,
Speaker 2: of this white population that she saw herself in Ecuador,
Speaker 2: in in Rule and Bolivia. All the sources such as
Speaker 2: Feliber you know, this great historian, and I think I think,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's like that, but I think
Speaker 2: a mindstone for her point of view was her meeting
Speaker 2: with Qui Morrids. I don't know if you're familiar with f. Morrits. Morrigs,
Speaker 2: he was a researcher from Hungary who became very famous
Speaker 2: because he was one of the well discoverers of the
Speaker 2: Tigers case, you know, in Evador. So he had access
Speaker 2: to this metal libraries, you know, and actually he wrote
Speaker 2: a book about that, The Origins of European people was
Speaker 2: in South America, and I think that's one of the
Speaker 2: fields of study that Ruth took, you know, and Devil.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you are aware of all these
Speaker 2: field of you know, studying that I'm Morrits indeed, and
Speaker 2: then you know Ruth was part of No.
Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with him. Did you say, did you
Speaker 1: say metal documents or metal books?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'm talking about dios case, you know, which I.
Speaker 1: Never heard about metal Is this something that was discovered
Speaker 1: decades ago? Metal books?
Speaker 2: Yes? Actually, Eric from Denikim was studying partially that. And
Speaker 2: I understand that Neil Armstrong also there, you know, and
Speaker 2: that's a sacred sighting necuator and well both fun Morris
Speaker 2: and Ruth, you know, the where familiar We did knowledge
Speaker 2: that some of these Indian tribes that have access to dowels,
Speaker 2: to these metal plakes, you know, have communicated them. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that was one of these one of these
Speaker 2: starting points, I may say, of of Ruth for the
Speaker 2: development to all here you know studies and you know,
Speaker 2: all her research.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know it's funny because when I was reading
Speaker 1: your article whatever her books says that the Americas were routinely.
Speaker 5: HUH settled with foreigners, either Europe or Middle East or
Speaker 5: AH Slovenia and those places that are different now.
Speaker 1: One of the things that she writes is that the
Speaker 1: what was it? She says that Nordic migrations or Nordic
Speaker 1: navigators who came to America called it the white man's land.
Speaker 2: Well, that that's way, way, way much later. It's interesting
Speaker 2: because this is a point that I did talk to
Speaker 2: I wrote after we met, I would say that was
Speaker 2: twenty or nine or twenty ten. In my dream. I
Speaker 2: started to explain what my filter research was, and I
Speaker 2: talked to her about Francisco moreno about there being the
Speaker 2: rather about our post Lasky. It would teach Robert Or
Speaker 2: and heat for which UH are scholars we've spoken about before,
Speaker 2: and they all acknowledged a single fact that in America
Speaker 2: before the UH indigenous groups, there was a white race.
Speaker 2: And that's something we can't we can prove now through archeology.
Speaker 2: You know, UH and Ruth have these oral sacred traditions
Speaker 2: from Ecuador. And you know, she was telling me about
Speaker 2: I'm sorry about all this, and it was kind of
Speaker 2: like like our field over search match and that's how
Speaker 2: we came up with, you know, there's we must do.
Speaker 2: And she she I must say, she told me Cliff,
Speaker 2: she has written, I think she said, like a five
Speaker 2: or six pages encyclopedia about symbols of these ancient white
Speaker 2: races of Americas, right, you know, And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: how are we gonna have ever be you know, how
Speaker 2: is it gonna be possible to publish this because it's
Speaker 2: like huge, huge, you know. And I think she started
Speaker 2: to publish some of her studies a couple of years later.
Speaker 2: You know. Yes, well, I think I think that your
Speaker 2: film research is very important because she's not you know,
Speaker 2: she here here here m hmm, the line of her
Speaker 2: of your of your field research. Yet she's based on
Speaker 2: archeological research, on on uh sources from the colonial times
Speaker 2: or even in the conquest about this white population in
Speaker 2: the America. It's it's not a part of what we
Speaker 2: know in many stream history. And that's something that I
Speaker 2: must say, like like common fields that wish happen.
Speaker 1: You know. One thing that I thought was interesting is
Speaker 1: that she talks about stone books. Yes, but in your
Speaker 1: article you're not very specific. Are these books that were
Speaker 1: available in libraries or were they translations from the Stone books.
Speaker 2: No, she's she's talking that they're there there. For example, Cliff,
Speaker 2: she she she uh talked a lot about these Taia
Speaker 2: skid metal plates, and then she said, all the set
Speaker 2: of petrobriges that we have uh throughout Americas are some
Speaker 2: kind of library. But the knowledge of them, the knowledge
Speaker 2: of the seamos, are very difficult to you know, like
Speaker 2: to try to translate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, amazing, uh to my listeners. There is unfortunately
Speaker 1: no English version of her books. In fact, raps working
Speaker 1: on getting some of them translated, so perhaps in the
Speaker 1: next couple of years we'll see these books. But it's
Speaker 1: almost amazing. It's out of sight what the implications are.
Speaker 1: She presents information that the Maya we're seafaring people, that
Speaker 1: they went to India, and this is why we see
Speaker 1: the term Maya so frequently in uh Hindu culture.
Speaker 2: Cliff, if I might something to what you have just said.
Speaker 2: For me as a historian, it's very surprising to see that.
Speaker 2: For example, Uh, the scientific research develop by Francisco Moreno,
Speaker 2: you know, from Argentina has never been translated into any
Speaker 2: other language, just in Spanish. He Uh, I think I'm
Speaker 2: I'm positive we have spoken about things. He sent.
Speaker 6: Scouts that he fought the Partagonia to France in the
Speaker 6: nineteenth century, and it was the poor broad rap for
Speaker 6: Pinard specialist French specialists of Scout status.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 2: They told him these skulls belong to the nervn dolls,
Speaker 2: you know, and the nerdentals are the basis of the Europeans,
Speaker 2: that is, of the white people. That was in the
Speaker 2: nineteenth century. Then you have Roberto ram He, you know,
Speaker 2: he claimed that the white ray escape from a guard
Speaker 2: you know article yes, yes, And we have all this
Speaker 2: traditional of the white gods and the vida coaches in
Speaker 2: South America and the highlands in Brazil, you know. So
Speaker 2: what I want to get to is that it's so
Speaker 2: fascinating for me as a historian, I must say, so
Speaker 2: to see how all these knowledge, you know, not not
Speaker 2: a theory, but studies based upon field research, has been
Speaker 2: one way or the other ignored by men, streams, follers,
Speaker 2: and today they are practically you know, unknown for for
Speaker 2: for for the public in general.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, We're going to take a
Speaker 1: short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves
Speaker 1: and We will returned shortly with my guest today, Raphael Eisman,
Speaker 1: coming to us from Ukraine discussing the works of Ruth Rodriguez,
Speaker 1: Sider Mariar Echoes of the Unknown History. Will be right back.
Speaker 7: There's that telling must do holding on You need for
Speaker 7: time trip somewhere in the world. This takes don't well,
Speaker 7: I guess so what if this man Jack but the
Speaker 7: North was telling so zachn Wait, don't bring that old
Speaker 7: book because he's awful.
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Speaker 1: to earth at ancients dot com, forward slash tours, give
Speaker 1: yourself the gift of a lifetime. Jonnis and Cairo, April
Speaker 1: twenty eighth through May tenth. My guest is Raphael Eisman.
Speaker 1: He is discussing a historian, Ruth Rodriguez Sodemyr and her
Speaker 1: book Echoes of the Unknown History. This is a look
Speaker 1: at prehistory before the Greeks, the Romans, perhaps even the Sumerians.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because what she's writing about corresponds
Speaker 1: with the Hindu Yugas, and she says, these earlier, earlier
Speaker 1: people are part of the Sachia and Tretep periods, which
Speaker 1: is the gold the Golden and the Silver period. Do
Speaker 1: we have a sense of how far along it's like,
Speaker 1: twenty thousand years ago, twenty eight thousand years ago, how
Speaker 1: many how many years ago is it in prehistory?
Speaker 2: It's pre history. I was just talking about this today
Speaker 2: with some scholar here. What's the antiquity of Chile. You know. So,
Speaker 2: I have Monte Birdy that was studied by American archeologist
Speaker 2: Tom Dillahey. And when he stayed through archaeological study that
Speaker 2: Monte Birdy, you south of Chile, was thirty years old.
Speaker 2: All the theological community went against him, you know. So.
Speaker 2: And and if you think thirty years ago, it's just yesterday. Now,
Speaker 2: I think it was one or two years ago. I
Speaker 2: cannot go. There was this archaeological study that you know,
Speaker 2: they studying, Ah, I would say twenty six twenty five
Speaker 2: or something burreal sites of South America and most of them,
Speaker 2: most of them had nerdental DNA. And so far we
Speaker 2: understand the Netherlands were never in the so called New World.
Speaker 2: How can you explain that? So that's what I'm saying, America. Yes,
Speaker 2: and this is what we are trying to, you know, study,
Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons why I'm here. I
Speaker 2: got to the uh this is breaking news. I'm going
Speaker 2: to the Natural History Museum of Tea. Just awesome, it's great,
Speaker 2: it's wonderful. And we have on display right now a
Speaker 2: very small part of the college. Yes, I would say
Speaker 2: most of the stone tool technology on this plane. It's
Speaker 2: a very sane way. We haven't children, can you explain that?
Speaker 2: In the paralytic age? So what are we talking about here?
Speaker 2: We're talking about at this age time we have absolutely
Speaker 2: other seeing levels of water of course, you know, so
Speaker 2: I think I think about ten eleven, twelve thousand years
Speaker 2: ago back we we cannot really know what was going on.
Speaker 2: That's the milestone of time when all what we know
Speaker 2: about mythology, you know, that is ancient history became mythology,
Speaker 2: and we've started from that point on, you know, consider
Speaker 2: archaeological findings as history. Yet I must insist on this.
Speaker 2: How can we explain the similarities the parallel stone tool
Speaker 2: technology of I don't know, a country like Ukraine with
Speaker 2: a country like Chile. Yeah, questions, I know, we won't
Speaker 2: have the answers. And that's the best part of it.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, it's really hard, you know, it's funny. It's
Speaker 1: very hard to come up with dates. And the other
Speaker 1: thing that Ruth in her writing criticizes is carbon fourteen days.
Speaker 1: She says it's not shouldn't be anxious to say explain that?
Speaker 1: Why is she so against carbon dating?
Speaker 2: Well, Ruth, I must still a very very important thing.
Speaker 6: I I I.
Speaker 2: I think this is the first time I'm gonna talk
Speaker 2: about this. I had a chance to talk to Ruth
Speaker 2: last year. I visited her in in.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: I cannot remember the name of the place where she
Speaker 2: she lived, eating in the north part of Latred and
Speaker 2: we spoke about three hours or so and.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 2: She said, this, Raphael, all what we know about history
Speaker 2: it has been written by Christians, by Catholics, so they
Speaker 2: cannot come up with pre fulled cultures. We cannot come
Speaker 2: up with pre flooded civilizations because that's at a book.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: She was very, very clear, and she's like, oh, abspute
Speaker 2: all the methods we have for measuring our history. I manipulated.
Speaker 2: She said something that kind of reminds me of hands
Speaker 2: four big girls Glacis slogany. She's like, our species, it's
Speaker 2: millions of years old, and that's why in ancient times
Speaker 2: and our ancestors talk about this old age where there
Speaker 2: was some sort of paradise, you know, but it it
Speaker 2: was really beyond our chronology, you know, And I must uh.
Speaker 2: She started to you know, study, for example, the Hindu
Speaker 2: is tradition of what such a juga or the Indo
Speaker 2: German tradition of the Open Age, and in South America especially,
Speaker 2: I came up with this source of Alcano, you know,
Speaker 2: talking about the some sort of Golden age as well
Speaker 2: in the midst time, how a white lived with people
Speaker 2: in a typty all would refer to. In the very
Speaker 2: first beginning, there was this, you know, Golden age. So
Speaker 2: Ruth talked about that, but she said, like it was
Speaker 2: not a Golden Age but silver age where these women
Speaker 2: priesthood was ruining, you.
Speaker 1: Know, interesstem. Why do you think she's down on the church?
Speaker 1: Is that because they're manipulating the narrative of the ancient
Speaker 1: past and they don't want they want their own version
Speaker 1: of the ancient past.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean because they destroyed, they most of the
Speaker 2: vestiges of the civilization of the white gods. You know,
Speaker 2: they burned the code excess in Central America. They destroyed
Speaker 2: absolutely everything. They were on life hands talking about boot
Speaker 2: and blah and blah blah blah. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: they were, as she said me, they were the worst sceners,
Speaker 2: you know, and he actually referred like most of the
Speaker 2: feel of these phrases where let speak, all.
Speaker 1: One thing she writes about is that there is an
Speaker 1: indication of six writing systems in prehistory and she lists
Speaker 1: them as geomegnanuh, geometric math or uri, cuneiform, hieroglyphics which
Speaker 1: is the Maya picture graphs, phonetic writing or Aztec, and cryptographic.
Speaker 1: Six different types of writing.
Speaker 2: And that that was a your theory, mm hmm. At
Speaker 2: one point she came up with this project that we
Speaker 2: should uh travel through out Americas and record and she said, RAPHI,
Speaker 2: we have to record absolutely every single sign on the rocks. Yeah.
Speaker 2: She had this wonderful brain view about you know, all
Speaker 2: our past and I'm like, what we need? What we
Speaker 2: need like ten years to do that, a lot of resources,
Speaker 2: and you know, almost like a possible. She's like, that's
Speaker 2: something we have to do. That's what they would have
Speaker 2: to talk, Yes, she she I sort of divided this, yeah,
Speaker 2: like medical groups, you know, and in another thing, but
Speaker 2: I don't want to meet. She also at one point
Speaker 2: to that and a lot of the pre Columbian artifacts
Speaker 2: and ologists should be watched, uh with a mirror, you know,
Speaker 2: right to to to see the opposite side of it. Actually, yes,
Speaker 2: kind of like Leonardo da Vinci, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: you know ancient world. Uh, in the in the European tradition,
Speaker 2: of course, Americas and ancient a forgotten the the symbols,
Speaker 2: the science, the art in general. It's it's a metaphor.
Speaker 2: So how do you get you to that? You have
Speaker 2: to know the codes, you have to know the symbolism,
Speaker 2: you have to know the meanings of of of the science,
Speaker 2: of the figures of these objects to understand what's going
Speaker 2: on there, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: One thing that was of interest personally to me is
Speaker 1: that she said that you're a corners of who was
Speaker 1: the main translator of the Mayan hieroglyphs. Didn't take the
Speaker 1: bulk of the spiritual science which is a part of
Speaker 1: the mining culture, and what we see in the hieroglyphics
Speaker 1: are just part of the language. And I couldn't believe
Speaker 1: that he was following some personal Uh, he was editing
Speaker 1: the decipherment of these hieroglyphs.
Speaker 2: Well, I I I I remember now following your ideas, Gliff,
Speaker 2: I have the chance to meet to know a shaman
Speaker 2: in the song. She lived right hand from the out tradition,
Speaker 2: you know, and there was there was a lot of
Speaker 2: things she told me, you know, in a very well
Speaker 2: it's a very way, in a secret way. So I
Speaker 2: think we have to understand that all these.
Speaker 8: Mhmm.
Speaker 2: Well, when you stand today, phychological messiges, as symbols, as signs,
Speaker 2: as you know, the these icons of the pretty spanic
Speaker 2: pre Columbian world are in fact coded uh knowledge, you know.
Speaker 2: And in some occasions there is a possibility to you know,
Speaker 2: for as fast to communicate, but then at the same time,
Speaker 2: a lot of times there's no chance at all. So
Speaker 2: I think this is the case. I I think Ruth
Speaker 2: tried and wanted to communicate some of this amazing world
Speaker 2: which having Americas, you know, Yet not all of that
Speaker 2: was or is possible, because it's got to do with
Speaker 2: sacred traditions you know, that are still living at police
Speaker 2: in South America. So I can tell you right.
Speaker 1: She highlights Tiyunaku in Bolivia as one of the great
Speaker 1: Prediluvian cities, and we know from Posnanski he dated that
Speaker 1: city that I think wasn't it twenty eight thousand years
Speaker 1: old or older? Perhaps, But she remarks that that has
Speaker 1: a lot more to tell us that ancient city. We've
Speaker 1: only scratched the service about those people.
Speaker 2: Well, that that's the thing which scratched the surface of things.
Speaker 2: As you know. I'm part of the ACA Choreographical Exploring Team.
Speaker 2: We were there a couple of years ago. In a
Speaker 2: previous expedition. Some of the members, some of the speleologists,
Speaker 2: went down AH in the Agapana Pyramid in it's a
Speaker 2: old system. Now this is this is this is this
Speaker 2: is like in recent years, you know, a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago if you study, if you read h this
Speaker 2: isn't the studies UH developed by Edmund kiss It's German
Speaker 2: archeologists back in the nineteen thirties. He claims that Yah
Speaker 2: Whena was also an underground city. That's something that's very
Speaker 2: very important to understanding antiquity of this civilization. Paus Nanski
Speaker 2: talks about a right a range of eighteen twenty two,
Speaker 2: twenty three years old. Yet and kids goes even further
Speaker 2: in his like not him in lacial cosmoony is able
Speaker 2: to establish the antiquity, you know, it goes beyond our chronology,
Speaker 2: something that happens usually and this is something for example,
Speaker 2: I could tell I was studying with sights in archaeological
Speaker 2: sight in Ukraine and you have one spot and you
Speaker 2: have seven layers, seven different cultures UH in the same
Speaker 2: geographical spot. Mm hm, that's the very same thing that
Speaker 2: took place in Tjiavanaco. You have Tiaguanaco, the primitive Tjiavannaco.
Speaker 2: You have certain type of UH people, then you have others,
Speaker 2: and then you have I would say, what five six,
Speaker 2: seven layers the same thing, you know, and and UH thing.
Speaker 2: Whenever will have another world wide catastrophe, people are gonna
Speaker 2: go back to Tiaguanaco and they're gonna start to live
Speaker 2: again there and we're gonna have another level and that's
Speaker 2: gonna happen everywhere in the world. Yeah, and then you
Speaker 2: started to make archeological thinking, you start to make archeological stylis,
Speaker 2: and you'll be like, oh, this is so amazing. Have
Speaker 2: different skulls here. Yeah, and that has happened, I would say,
Speaker 2: throughout the world. And that's something that for me so
Speaker 2: fascinating because that tells you about you know, why certain
Speaker 2: places are sacred. Why do they have people vow and
Speaker 2: vow and and and populate and repopulate you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: why do.
Speaker 1: Archaeologists have so much trouble with prehistory? H and and
Speaker 1: when when places like Tiu and Aku come up we
Speaker 1: don't see any major university research there because it's such
Speaker 1: an anomaly. I think they do so want to go there.
Speaker 2: But Rick found then again once told me something that
Speaker 2: has been really a guideline.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 2: He's like, we have two types of thinkers. We have
Speaker 2: scientific thinkers and we have religious thinkers, and they both
Speaker 2: are in the center of history. So you have on
Speaker 2: one hand scientists that think that we understand the fact
Speaker 2: we're in this evolutionary process, we are at the very
Speaker 2: pop of it. And then you have religious as scientists
Speaker 2: or religious scientists that think that we are at the
Speaker 2: center of creation. So when when you have these two
Speaker 2: concepts and you apply and you focusing to be a
Speaker 2: field ground, you have to have these two concepts to
Speaker 2: understand what's around you. And that doesn't make sense, you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean is that.
Speaker 7: This is my.
Speaker 2: Understanding that once you establish a theory, the vestiges are
Speaker 2: going to follow your theory. Whenever it's got to be
Speaker 2: the other way around. So you have a table and
Speaker 2: you have read in the history inside the frame of
Speaker 2: a table, you know, and then someone else comes and tells, you,
Speaker 2: I have this piece that doesn't fit in your table.
Speaker 2: What are you going to do. That's what happens here
Speaker 2: in Ukraine, that's what happens in America. That what happens
Speaker 2: everywhere in the world. You know, Uh, there are so
Speaker 2: many examples, I know, so many examples of what we
Speaker 2: say it is for bidding archaeology, for biding history, for
Speaker 2: bidding Why because it doesn't see, it's not that we
Speaker 2: are making it up. It's not because we want to
Speaker 2: be sensationalists at all. It's just because these are objects,
Speaker 2: these are frames, these are fields that are part are
Speaker 2: part of our past, are part of our history, yet
Speaker 2: they do not fit.
Speaker 1: Okay, to take a short commercial break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
Speaker 1: my guest today, Raphael Heisman, coming to us from Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Will be right back. My guest today is Raphael Eisman.
Speaker 1: He has written a new article on a historian from Ecuador,
Speaker 1: Ruth Roriguez Sodomyor, who discovered a great deal of ancient
Speaker 1: history and unknown texts. But I mean, why are they
Speaker 1: so inflexible, Because you know, it's almost like they have
Speaker 1: to see something written on the damn wall for them
Speaker 1: to go beyond four thousand BC. They keep saying the
Speaker 1: Maya started around three thousand years old.
Speaker 2: Come on, let's think about for example, in South America,
Speaker 2: let me tell you something. In Chile, you have this
Speaker 2: lay Indigena indigenous law. You know that allows well indigenous people.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you would define to be indigenous.
Speaker 2: You know, modern times and a lot of rights, and
Speaker 2: that's great, and that's good. Yet if you go on, say, okay,
Speaker 2: let's go through the archeological strata. You know before before
Speaker 2: indigenous people, you have other people. You have another population,
Speaker 2: so why would they be considered to be the pueblos
Speaker 2: or hilarious states Lative Americans.
Speaker 9: In the States say, I think Kenetic men, you know, yeah,
Speaker 9: my biggest maybe tell you something here.
Speaker 2: And in Ukraine we have we have nere than, we
Speaker 2: have a home more actives, we have a Mosabian sapiens
Speaker 2: who is the first? How do we define their theological information?
Speaker 2: And that in twice And that's the hardest part of it.
Speaker 2: A political concept. I'm not talking about politics, but it
Speaker 2: implies politics. So you know what saying, Yeah, the Americas
Speaker 2: we were talking about fourteen ninety two, it's a political
Speaker 2: like strategy. Yeah, Spanich, they knew there was something beyond
Speaker 2: the ocean, the non ocean. You know. The Vikings knew
Speaker 2: the every every ancient sailor culture knew about amer maybe
Speaker 2: in all eat America, you know. But at one point
Speaker 2: they say, oh, okay, this spinage drum. We have to
Speaker 2: write history. We have to write history, and let it
Speaker 2: be know we have discovered America. That's a Joel.
Speaker 1: I'm having a problem right now because I'm writing a
Speaker 1: chapter about the Great Migration to the Americas and specifically
Speaker 1: the early formation of what the people we call it
Speaker 1: a Maya. And in my studies and another a number
Speaker 1: of other researchers and authors, some of them academics, believe
Speaker 1: there was a great crossing, a migration of people to
Speaker 1: present day Mexico who eventually became the people we know
Speaker 1: as the Maya and the Aztecs. But if you ask
Speaker 1: an archaeologist, what they're thinking is, even though they've had
Speaker 1: research of people, you know, able to cross the ocean
Speaker 1: and read boats, they just can't formulate an idea like that.
Speaker 1: They can't accept it. And it's just insane.
Speaker 2: It is the same. It is insane. And this is
Speaker 2: like going to a psychologist. This is going to like
Speaker 2: any single professional we know of everyone's going to give
Speaker 2: you a different answer. Yeah, you know, and I say,
Speaker 2: what we have to do, Let's go and read their sources.
Speaker 2: The friend is, you know what the conquista boris what
Speaker 2: they missions wrote, because even though they had you know, filter,
Speaker 2: of course, most of the time they will be writing
Speaker 2: what there is. So what's the problem with today main
Speaker 2: string historians, when it's film archeologists, it's that they have
Speaker 2: to feed the pattern. But back in in in the
Speaker 2: time of the conguest in the time of the colonial
Speaker 2: of the colony, they were just writing. Of course everything
Speaker 2: can be subjected to you know, to interpretation, yet there
Speaker 2: they were like eye witness, you know, to a lot
Speaker 2: of things. So for me, that's that's a very important field. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've been into small Mexican museums in Yucatan and there
Speaker 1: was one in Cancun, and this is like one of
Speaker 1: the first times I went to Mexico, like nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: six or something, and in this museum was a small
Speaker 1: woman and a man wearing Japanese kimonos and they you know,
Speaker 1: the reason I love going to Latin American museums is
Speaker 1: they're not editing history like the Americans or Western culture.
Speaker 1: If you go to American museums, they don't want to
Speaker 1: show things that make you think about or question history.
Speaker 1: And this is my big problem with a migration to
Speaker 1: Mexico by the early people is that there are African centric,
Speaker 1: Asian centric, Middle Eastern centric people carved in reliefs and
Speaker 1: sculptures and paintings on pottery. They're not Indian. There from
Speaker 1: other cultures other parts of the world, and that's the proof.
Speaker 1: But you can't get an archaeologist to agree with that.
Speaker 1: They just simply are trained away from having original thinking.
Speaker 2: This come on, It's like, it's like, uh, this is history.
Speaker 2: You know today we're facing world wide migrations everywhere. No,
Speaker 2: that's true, right, so uh think about Uh, this is
Speaker 2: something that I have said to people Chile, like in
Speaker 2: one thousand years from now, someone is gonna be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know this are complete stoptories in Chile. And how
Speaker 2: did they look like, Oh they were like from a
Speaker 2: continent called Europe in one dozen years is not going
Speaker 2: to exist. How how would they look like, Oh they
Speaker 2: were like why and they were this and they give
Speaker 2: me what. I have no idea how it's gonna be
Speaker 2: and someone is gonna be like, yeah, this is a myth,
Speaker 2: you know, and they're gonna go and they're gonna probably
Speaker 2: dig up, you know, European scars. But the population in
Speaker 2: one dozen years from now, it's gonna be totally different. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I hear exactly, And that's what happened. You know, when
Speaker 2: we're studying now today twenty twenty five South America. Why
Speaker 2: and this is something that I wanted to bring up
Speaker 2: because we have been talking about food dated sitting up
Speaker 2: of my Europe. When she's talking about this white laities
Speaker 2: in America, You're like, why is she talking about She's
Speaker 2: talking about a metaphorce. She's talking about a symbol of
Speaker 2: the sun of no, no, no, You go and you
Speaker 2: find distructations, you know, Yet these traditions go back twelve thirteen,
Speaker 2: fourteen years ago, you know, before the indigenous people came
Speaker 2: up pumping our continents. And that's it. He's thorty that
Speaker 2: took place, and that's a history that's happening, and that's
Speaker 2: a story that will happen again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as we come to the conclusion of our time together, Raphael,
Speaker 1: what do you think Ruth Rodriguez Sotimmor will contribute to
Speaker 1: ancient history. Unfortunately, she's only published in Spanish and we
Speaker 1: don't know how far she's been distributed. The other thing
Speaker 1: that you make a very big point on number of
Speaker 1: her books haven't been published. They've only been written but
Speaker 1: not published.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's something that I that I told to her.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Ruth, you have written like I don't know,
Speaker 2: I would say three books at least, and you have
Speaker 2: been published like ten. She's like, yes, I have to,
Speaker 2: you know, work on some details and this one has
Speaker 2: got to do this, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, Ruth,
Speaker 2: I understand, but we cannot lose time. And yes she did.
Speaker 2: She didn't publish some in Madrid. She had this encyclopedia
Speaker 2: I think five bonis or something. She showed me some
Speaker 2: of the manuscripts, huge, huge, you know, and well I
Speaker 2: have to I have to, you know, I think how
Speaker 2: we can haveing published, of course in Spanish, of course
Speaker 2: in Elish, because I would say, I would say, believe
Speaker 2: like history is not about the answer, spirits to do
Speaker 2: more with the questions, you know, like the same thing
Speaker 2: that I have spoken here with Ukrainian pathologists. How come
Speaker 2: you have the same don't do technology in Ukraine, sains
Speaker 2: done too, you know, industry or technology in Chile. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we won't have the answers. But what I think it's
Speaker 2: the most important thing and questions. So that's the same
Speaker 2: thing for me in relation with what Ruth did. And
Speaker 2: I think she she was such a great spirit on focus,
Speaker 2: seeing on you know, performing on all these amazing work
Speaker 2: on you know, rescuing or traditions, symbols, traditions, you know,
Speaker 2: and saying this is what we have to understand.
Speaker 1: And she was so so.
Speaker 2: Clear, at least every time she spoke to me on
Speaker 2: the fact that you know, we cannot be easy going,
Speaker 2: we cannot be afraid. We have to speak out loud,
Speaker 2: you know, the truth about our history, about who were
Speaker 2: the first Americans, all the tradition about the wife gods,
Speaker 2: and how they spread the knowledge and civilization throughout the
Speaker 2: Americas and then how they expand to Asia and you know, Europe,
Speaker 2: and the most amazing thing I must say, it's like
Speaker 2: this is Gruth, you know. But that's the same thing
Speaker 2: that Francisco Moreno talk about, Emitvillia, the Rada, Roberto Rankeefo,
Speaker 2: our landscape kiss. So this is not just like a
Speaker 2: guess of growth, you know, like the view you know,
Speaker 2: the perspectives that different scholars have them our history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now she route passed away. Uh was it last
Speaker 1: year or this year?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, April this year, this year?
Speaker 1: And did she give you permission to publish her books
Speaker 1: or what was your arrangement?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: No, not all her books. She gave me the mission
Speaker 2: to publish two or three books, haven't my folders?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And and and I will do you know, the publishing,
Speaker 2: because that's a way that I think part of her
Speaker 2: a lifetime work.
Speaker 1: You know, it's going to be non so she has
Speaker 1: all the graphics and the and the photographs and the
Speaker 1: images that are ready to go.
Speaker 2: And well, of course this interview article that was published
Speaker 2: into American magazine.
Speaker 10: You know, yeah, it's ah, I would say, like an
Speaker 10: approach of course of of what she of what what
Speaker 10: she was doing.
Speaker 1: You know, it's too bad that we didn't get to
Speaker 1: meet her while she was alive. You know, I mean
Speaker 1: I didn't know that she was right in these books,
Speaker 1: and of course I don't. I think she's very rare
Speaker 1: somebody who's writing the the prehistory according to those who
Speaker 1: laid down the the the information, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: pretty amazing.
Speaker 11: I think she she was no to some specific people
Speaker 11: in Ecuador do some very specific.
Speaker 2: Circles also in uh in my dread in Spain, I
Speaker 2: I I have the same feeling, you know, And I
Speaker 2: told her we have to bring all her research into
Speaker 2: you know, why the audience because you might agree or
Speaker 2: not right on on what she's researching or on what
Speaker 2: she's doing, but the ideas the field of the research
Speaker 2: was fascinating. So yeah, ah, I I think I think
Speaker 2: that she might have a congress in angering, you know.
Speaker 2: But nevertheless, it's also very like limited, you know. So
Speaker 2: I think that one of the amish we should devil
Speaker 2: be to have her research translated into English, you know,
Speaker 2: so you cannot read can study all what she was doing.
Speaker 1: Ruth Rodriguez Sotimior and we were talking today about an
Speaker 1: article the Refrael wrote called Echoes of the Unknown History
Speaker 1: the American Origins of Culture. And I'm going to put
Speaker 1: this article on the Facebook page. You can read it
Speaker 1: and it's tear I entirety.
Speaker 11: There we go.
Speaker 1: And I want you to also, uh check this out
Speaker 1: because Raphael has inserted a number of excellent photographs that
Speaker 1: parallel a lot of the writings from Ruth's work. So Raphael,
Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate you being on the program and
Speaker 1: keep in touch regarding these books because I'd love to
Speaker 1: see one or two of them in English. And uh,
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know how many of you've already seen.
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned one was published in Madrid, so
Speaker 1: that's Spanish. You can read that. But if it's a
Speaker 1: do you read Italian? If it's an Italian.
Speaker 2: No, I mean only Spanish.
Speaker 1: Only Spanish, okay, all right, so yes, all right, all right,
Speaker 1: Well listen, man, I appreciate it. You're you're a world traveler,
Speaker 1: You're you're braver than me to be in Ukraine. So okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks man, stay in touch, Thank you, Cleif, thank you,
Speaker 1: and we'll be watching, of course anytime I want to
Speaker 1: be there. Okay, thank you. I didn't mention that Raphael
Speaker 1: is having a book published by Inner Traditions, one of us,
Speaker 1: my publisher, and he's also in the works of translating
Speaker 1: a number of Ruth's unpublished books. Apparently she has a
Speaker 1: whole encyclopedia of five books of ancient prehistory that he's
Speaker 1: in the process of translating. I can't wait to get
Speaker 1: my hands on that because there's so much in that
Speaker 1: information regarding the Maya, and it really is. And the
Speaker 1: other thing about it is that she supports all her
Speaker 1: research with documents references. It's not just you know, native
Speaker 1: traditions or oral traditions. In fact, most of it is
Speaker 1: written documents that she was able to collect. And it's
Speaker 1: wonderful that we have this opportunity to see other perspectives
Speaker 1: of our ancient past. We just cannot depend on Western
Speaker 1: you know, us European archaeologists, historians as the gatekeepers of
Speaker 1: this knowledge. And this is why I have such a
Speaker 1: fascination for the Maya, because they are misunderstood, misclassified, and
Speaker 1: much of the data is repressed. A tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: data is repressed. And when I say repressed, it's like
Speaker 1: oral traditions are not considered valid, shamanistic theories and what
Speaker 1: they call dake. If you don't know what a daykeeper is,
Speaker 1: a daykeeper is a calindrical scientists calendar watcher that are
Speaker 1: trained to follow the various seasons through skywatching the planets
Speaker 1: and changing seasons and such. We don't consider daykeepers. You
Speaker 1: don't read about daykeepers in any academic journal because it's
Speaker 1: considered fluff. But these are the guys who set things
Speaker 1: in motion. The daykeepers are you know, look up Daatekeepers
Speaker 1: and see the definition of it. It's pretty These guys
Speaker 1: are pretty bright people, very much in tune with the earth.
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping to learn more about Root's work in
Speaker 1: the coming months, years, and so on. So there you go.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying Earth Ancients Destiny Earth Ancients Special Edition
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Speaker 1: Ancients and subscribe. All right, that's it for this program.
Speaker 1: I want to thank my guest today, Raphael Eisman, coming
Speaker 1: to us from Ukraine. As always, the team of Galtor,
Speaker 1: Mark Foster and Feya, our Pakistani video editor. You guys
Speaker 1: rock all right, take care of you well and we
Speaker 1: will talk to you next.
Speaker 8: Time about eighty d looking about eighteen
Speaker 1: Sucking at eighty