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<v Speaker 1>Everyone. Sorry, impromptu little recording here. I couldn't let this

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<v Speaker 1>one go. I saw this article. We started in chats.

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<v Speaker 1>We started tearing it apart and looking at parts of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had to put it out there for everyone

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<v Speaker 1>to see. So Rolling Stone has an article and the

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<v Speaker 1>title is I grew up with Jeffrey Epstein. Our neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>held Dark Secrets. A remembrance of Seagate, Brooklyn in the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixties, by Gabrielle Glancy. What I believe the purpose

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<v Speaker 1>of this article is is too well, let's get into it,

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<v Speaker 1>all right. I'll start reading here. There we go. There

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<v Speaker 1>was danger outside the gate. We understood that you could

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<v Speaker 1>see it precariously balanced on the very tip of Coney Island. Seagate,

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<v Speaker 1>where I was raised, as surrounded by water on three

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<v Speaker 1>sides and divided from the rest of the world by

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<v Speaker 1>a two story chain link fence. The fence, broken up

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<v Speaker 1>only by two actual gates manned by guards, stretches three

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<v Speaker 1>quarters of a mile long thirty seventh Street from New

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<v Speaker 1>York Harbor on the north side to the Atlantic Ocean

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<v Speaker 1>on the south. On our side of the fence, tree

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<v Speaker 1>lined streets. The closer you get to the ocean the

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<v Speaker 1>bigger the houses from the beach of via the Aarrenzano Bridge.

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<v Speaker 1>In the eighteen nineties, the Vanderbilts, Dodges and Morgans built

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<v Speaker 1>houses here. In fact, some of the houses on the

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<v Speaker 1>beach were forty room mansions before they got divided up

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<v Speaker 1>during the depression. It was a private beach escaped for

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<v Speaker 1>the rich. You can understand why they fenced a neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>off on the other side of the fence where today

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<v Speaker 1>stand residential high rises were slums. In fact, Seagate was

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<v Speaker 1>an island on an island. Growing up in the sixties,

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<v Speaker 1>the place was like one big playground. From the parachute

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<v Speaker 1>jump on Coney Island, the symbol of my childhood, you

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<v Speaker 1>could probably see the Statue of Liberty. The amusement park

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<v Speaker 1>ride Brooklyn's Eiffel Tower was itself a kind of poor

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<v Speaker 1>man's Statue of Liberty. It represented the idea that wherever

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<v Speaker 1>you were, you could have a bigger view of where

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<v Speaker 1>you could end up. My mother and I lived with

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<v Speaker 1>my grandparents in the last house before you got to

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<v Speaker 1>the fence. We had a view from our kitchen window

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<v Speaker 1>through chain link of abandoned cars boarded up tenements, garbage,

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<v Speaker 1>old bicycle frames that have been picked clean, still locked

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<v Speaker 1>to a pole. In those days, the neighborhood kids had

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<v Speaker 1>the run of the place. We went outside as soon

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<v Speaker 1>as we got up and didn't come home until dinner.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a catwalk to narrow even if in a bicycle,

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<v Speaker 1>that we kids called the path, which ran between our

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<v Speaker 1>house and the fence. The older boys often parked their

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<v Speaker 1>bikes and our driveway, took the path and came back

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<v Speaker 1>to pick their bikes up. She's basically painting the picture

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<v Speaker 1>of a as close to idyllic kind of neighborhood that

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<v Speaker 1>you can get when it comes when you're in a city,

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<v Speaker 1>when you're in an I mean, it's an outer borough,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's still the city considered the city. To me,

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<v Speaker 1>the city is Manhattan, but you know it's still part

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<v Speaker 1>of the city. The path was maybe three feet wide,

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<v Speaker 1>broken cement overhung in places by my grandmother's private hedge,

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<v Speaker 1>a privet hedge whose tiny white blossoms carried the scent

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<v Speaker 1>of my Brooklyn childhood. Half in shadow, half in sun.

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<v Speaker 1>The path provided a back route in the neighborhood, which

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<v Speaker 1>we simply referred to as the Gate, perhaps because it

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<v Speaker 1>ran behind our house along thirty seventh and unseemly Street.

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<v Speaker 1>The path held the mystery in a danger. At some point,

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<v Speaker 1>someone cut a hole in the chain link. In the

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<v Speaker 1>chain link there, I remember seeing kids and sometimes even

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<v Speaker 1>grown men slipping through to avoid the guards at the gates.

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<v Speaker 1>My grandmother warned me to stay away from there, and

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<v Speaker 1>yet the opening was only four feet from our house.

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<v Speaker 1>Since our street was a dead end, it created a

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<v Speaker 1>perfect diamond for the boys in the neighborhood to play stickball.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew many of them by sight, even those five

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<v Speaker 1>or six years older than me, because my grandfather set

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<v Speaker 1>us up with a stickball resale business when I was four.

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<v Speaker 1>Quote over the fence was a home run, which meant

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<v Speaker 1>many pale pink Spaldine balls ended up on our roof.

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<v Speaker 1>My grandfather sold them back to the boys for five

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<v Speaker 1>cents less than what they had originally paid for them,

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<v Speaker 1>and passed the money to me. I'm not gonna even

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<v Speaker 1>comment at this point. I mean, that's not the point

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<v Speaker 1>of this. I have vivid memories on warm summer evenings

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<v Speaker 1>of my grandfather pulling out the ladder and placing it

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<v Speaker 1>against the side of the house, untucking his white start

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<v Speaker 1>shirt and climbing up. I stood at the bottom of

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<v Speaker 1>the ladder and watched. It seemed like magic. After a

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<v Speaker 1>few minutes, as if he had been collecting eggs, he

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<v Speaker 1>came down with a shirt tail apron full of spaldines.

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<v Speaker 1>There is a picture of her grandfather seemingly changing just

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<v Speaker 1>jumping right into the subject of the title of the article.

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<v Speaker 1>Following the release of the Epstein files in January, I

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<v Speaker 1>began to notice a lot of posts about him on

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<v Speaker 1>the I grew Up in Seagate facebook group. Someone posted

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<v Speaker 1>a class picture with Epstein standing in the back row

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<v Speaker 1>among a bunch of awkward looking preteen teens at Mark

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<v Speaker 1>Twain Junior High where my mother taught English during the

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<v Speaker 1>years he was a student there. The person who posted

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<v Speaker 1>the photo bragged about attending Epstein's Bob Mitzvah and claimed

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<v Speaker 1>that Epstein had grown up in Seagate. I took a

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<v Speaker 1>screenshot of the kid whose head was circled in red

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<v Speaker 1>magic marker, and saved it to my phone so I

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<v Speaker 1>could take a closer look. That's Jeffrey Epstein. I couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>believe it. I recognized him Epstein. I thought he had

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<v Speaker 1>been one of our stickball clients. Dizzy and I shot

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<v Speaker 1>a question at Google where exactly did Jeffrey Epstein grow up?

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<v Speaker 1>And Boila, I had before me the exact addresses in

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<v Speaker 1>Seagate where the Epstein's had lived. As it turned out,

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up on the same street at the same

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<v Speaker 1>time as Jeffrey Epstein. That's not a metaphor, it's a fact.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's true. Seagate, Coney Island. Quote.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not going to believe this, end quote. I said

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<v Speaker 1>to my cousins when I revealed to them what my

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<v Speaker 1>Google search had turned up. I then took the opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to ask them each in turn if my grandfather had

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<v Speaker 1>molested them as he had me. It just seemed like

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<v Speaker 1>the right moment to bring it up after all these years,

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<v Speaker 1>because suddenly the whole world was talking about pedophilia. Not really,

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<v Speaker 1>my oldest cousin, Josie said, but he was weird. My

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<v Speaker 1>cousins had lived on the other side of the fence

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<v Speaker 1>in Coney Island. They did not live with my grandparents

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<v Speaker 1>in Seagate as my mother and I did. Quote. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>Grandpa was a foreman for Fred Trump when he was

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<v Speaker 1>building Trump village, don't you, Josie said. One day when

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<v Speaker 1>I was there, Donnie came over. How old were you,

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<v Speaker 1>I asked. She thought for a minute, about eleven, she answered.

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<v Speaker 1>My cousin Josie and Donald Trump are exactly the same age.

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<v Speaker 1>I was my grandparent's youngest grandchild by fourteen years, and

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<v Speaker 1>Josie was the oldest. I have to say I was

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<v Speaker 1>shocked by the idea of Donald Trump and his father

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<v Speaker 1>standing in our living room and didn't really believe her.

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<v Speaker 1>As if this wasn't enough, she added, and of course,

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<v Speaker 1>you know the mafia runs Seagate. Incredulous. I reported the

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<v Speaker 1>contents of this conversation back to my best friend from childhood,

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<v Speaker 1>Molly Howard. Listen to this, Molly called to her husband,

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<v Speaker 1>Gabby says, Josie says, Seagate was run by the mafia.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that crazy? Everyone knows that I heard Howard shirt

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<v Speaker 1>back from the other room. Like us, Howard had also

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<v Speaker 1>grown up in Seagate. When the Epstein story broke, the

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<v Speaker 1>pieces both came together and fell apart from me. I

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<v Speaker 1>began to think about proximity and coincidence. A few years before,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was living on the West Coast, I had

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<v Speaker 1>tried to write about the murder of two teenage girls

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<v Speaker 1>who were allegedly being sex trafficked by the police and

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<v Speaker 1>the house next door to ours when a bullet came

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<v Speaker 1>through my window. As Mary Carr says in her introduction

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<v Speaker 1>to The Liars Club, quote when fortunate hands, when fortune

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<v Speaker 1>hands you such characters, why bother to make stuff up? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you have to ask that in the mirror, lady.

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<v Speaker 1>Following the Epstein revelation, I interviewed one of the now

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<v Speaker 1>grown up kids on our block in Seagate, Paula, who

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<v Speaker 1>told me she had reason to believe my grandfather molested

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Epstein. So you can see what this. The narrative

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<v Speaker 1>here is Jeffrey Epstein was molested. YadA, YadA. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>his fault ya da yah. Yeah. I mean, it's just

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<v Speaker 1>but I have to keep going. Quote, there were seven

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<v Speaker 1>pedophiles on our street alone, Paula said. A neighbor named Litsky,

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<v Speaker 1>she said, was fucking both boys and girls. Okay, think

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<v Speaker 1>about this. I don't know. I'm assuming most of the

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<v Speaker 1>people who listen to this are younger than me. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I have to assume it because I'm old. If

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<v Speaker 1>people knew that there was a pedophile in your neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 1>What would have happened to that person? I'm not even

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<v Speaker 1>saying vigilante justice. Someone would have called the cops, right,

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<v Speaker 1>someone would have gone. If you grew up in the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of neighborhood I did you know, they probably would

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<v Speaker 1>have ended up A bunch of fathers would have probably

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<v Speaker 1>tooken them up, taken them up to the tallest building,

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<v Speaker 1>the roof of the tallest build. There were seven pedophiles

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<v Speaker 1>on our street alone. Now we know historically that these

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<v Speaker 1>they exaggerate. We know this, so the questions are endless

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<v Speaker 1>with This is the purpose of this to if you're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to excuse what Jeffrey Epstein did, you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>make it seem like the Jewish neighborhood had seven pedophiles

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<v Speaker 1>on one street. I'm let me repeat this again. Quote

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<v Speaker 1>there were seven pedophiles on our street alone. End quote.

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<v Speaker 1>Paula said a neighbor named Litsky, she said, quote was

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<v Speaker 1>fucking both boys and girls. End quote. Quote did your

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<v Speaker 1>grandfather molest Jeffrey Epstein too? End quote? She mused, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know for sure, but I wouldn't doubt it. Absurd

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<v Speaker 1>as it may be, and kind of shocking. I realized

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<v Speaker 1>that I would not be surprised. I must credit my

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<v Speaker 1>beloved mother for this paradox, as well for the many

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<v Speaker 1>other secrets and contradictions that filled our lives. Quote I'm

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<v Speaker 1>shocked but not surprised was my mother's mantra. I'm pausing because,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, like me, she too had been molested by

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather, her father, and yet she seemed to find

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<v Speaker 1>her decision to assign us to the same bed when

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<v Speaker 1>I was a child neither shocking nor surprising. Perhaps she

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<v Speaker 1>would not even have considered it a decision. Was the

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<v Speaker 1>arrangement which rendered me and my grandfather bedfellows a coincidence?

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<v Speaker 1>It seems she had bequeathed him to me. Whatever the reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather and I were relegated to a pickle green

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<v Speaker 1>pullout couch in the living room of the tiny house

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather had built up against the fence in Seagate,

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<v Speaker 1>Coney Island, where he rubbed himself against me every night

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<v Speaker 1>until I was seven and aged out of his affection.

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<v Speaker 1>I never thought to question any of this. It felt normal,

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<v Speaker 1>though slightly I don't know, sour like milk on the

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<v Speaker 1>turn What rolling stone ran this? Then there's a picture

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<v Speaker 1>of Jeffrey Epstein as a child with a with an

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<v Speaker 1>accordion around his neck, a little guitar in his hand,

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<v Speaker 1>and a what the hell do they call those things?

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<v Speaker 1>The candelabra thing? Fuck, I can't remembe. I'm so blown

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<v Speaker 1>away by this. All right, I'm gonna continue. I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>the first to sleep with my grandfather or on the

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<v Speaker 1>green pull out couch, which, ironically later I also inherited.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently my grandmother had kicked my grandfather out of their

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<v Speaker 1>bedroom as long ago as nineteen nineteen, the year their

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<v Speaker 1>first child was born, when they were barely twenty. That

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<v Speaker 1>was a rough year all the way around. You may

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<v Speaker 1>recall it was a year of the black Black Sox scandal.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that was nineteen eighteen and the Spanish flew.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm probably wrong, just a few years after my grandparents

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<v Speaker 1>had come through Ellis Island from Eastern Europe. Oh, such

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<v Speaker 1>a blessing, Such a blessing. All my cousins recalled the

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<v Speaker 1>chicken coops my grandfather used to build in the living

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<v Speaker 1>room out of bed sheets and chairs. He must have

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<v Speaker 1>missed his pigeons from back home. There, in the dark

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<v Speaker 1>of the makeshift coops, my grandfather built a secret island

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<v Speaker 1>where he played his games with us. How my grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>could afford to buy a plot of land in the

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<v Speaker 1>gated community of Seagate in the nineteen thirties and build

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<v Speaker 1>three rowhouses in a synagogue on our street is as

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<v Speaker 1>mysterious as where the guy went every day. There's no mystery,

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<v Speaker 1>no fucking no one moved here from another country. Broke

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<v Speaker 1>worked night and day for five years, and then bought

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<v Speaker 1>up half of Hartford, fucking Connecticut. Can we stop with

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<v Speaker 1>that fucking bullshit? Dressed in a three piece suit, hat

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<v Speaker 1>and overcoat even in summer, he left in the morning

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<v Speaker 1>and didn't come home until well after dark. My mother

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<v Speaker 1>always reminded us that Pop had friends in high places,

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<v Speaker 1>and that he referred to the local judges by their

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<v Speaker 1>first names. I realize now that an economic divide determined

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<v Speaker 1>where stickball was played. You wouldn't be batting balls like

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<v Speaker 1>that in a part of Seagate where the Vanderbilts lived. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>because our house was the low of the low, the

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<v Speaker 1>farthest from the beach, the closest to the fence, we

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<v Speaker 1>became the stickball capital in the neighborhood, And because we

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<v Speaker 1>owned our house and my grandfather had built it, we

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<v Speaker 1>had at least a little bit of cachet in the

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhood where there was a clear division between the rich

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<v Speaker 1>and the poor. The Epstein's, on the other hand, runs

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<v Speaker 1>at a second floor apartment at the end of the street,

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<v Speaker 1>and a house that, like many of the old mansions,

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<v Speaker 1>had been divided up and turned into rentals. That as

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<v Speaker 1>an adult Jeffrey Epstein surrounded himself with the richest people

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<v Speaker 1>in the world is probably not an accident. I have wondered,

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<v Speaker 1>in light of all that has come out about him,

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<v Speaker 1>if Jeffrey Epstein felt on the poor side of that

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<v Speaker 1>great divide and sought to right that wrong, he may

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<v Speaker 1>even have felt that some division or isolation in his

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<v Speaker 1>own home. The genius son of a gardener and school

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<v Speaker 1>aid genius. Huh have you seen the way he wrote?

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently he skipped two grades, was a music prodigy and

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<v Speaker 1>something of a math whiz okay, and that way Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein lived on an island, on an island, on an island.

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<v Speaker 1>It is no wonder he bought an island for himself

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<v Speaker 1>when he had the means to do so, he was

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<v Speaker 1>used to living on one. This is absolutely incredible. This

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<v Speaker 1>is this may be the most insane article ever written,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm going to finish it before it gets taken down.

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<v Speaker 1>That he used sexual exploitation as some sort of bargaining

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<v Speaker 1>chip for that piece of the puzzle. There must have

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<v Speaker 1>been other factors at play. Was one of those factors

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather and my grandfather molest Jeffreystein, as it seems

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<v Speaker 1>he did many of the other kids in the neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 1>He might as well have. He might as well have.

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<v Speaker 1>I know I said that it was not a metaphor

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<v Speaker 1>that I grew up on the same street as Jeffrey Epstein.

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<v Speaker 1>I suppose I have contradicted myself. Indeed, if it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather who molested Jeffrey Epstein, someone must have literally

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<v Speaker 1>or metaphorically, there must have been forces around him and

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<v Speaker 1>inside of him that added up to his breaking bad

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<v Speaker 1>was Seagate a hotbed for pedophiles, a breeding ground, as

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<v Speaker 1>it were, probably no more than most places. History and

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<v Speaker 1>especially current events has shown us that exploitation by rich,

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<v Speaker 1>powerful and privilege it is everywhere. Not long ago I

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<v Speaker 1>came upon a book review that had run in The

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<v Speaker 1>New York Times in the nineties. The article was titled

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<v Speaker 1>we have met the Pedophiles and they are us. New

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<v Speaker 1>York's Times, owned by never Mind. I didn't understand it

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<v Speaker 1>at first, but I understand it now. When it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to pedophilia, you don't have to look that far to

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<v Speaker 1>find it. If you want to know for whom the

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<v Speaker 1>bell tolls, it tolls for thee. It is not alarming,

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<v Speaker 1>pun intended normal though it was for me that my

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<v Speaker 1>mother's open mouth kiss was what woke me up every

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<v Speaker 1>morning to get up for school. When I was twelve,

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<v Speaker 1>I locked my lips, both to keep out my mother

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<v Speaker 1>and to keep in the family secret that had and

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<v Speaker 1>passed from her lips to mine. I only half knew

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<v Speaker 1>how strange all this was when I was a kid. Really,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't until the Epstein scandal broke that I began

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<v Speaker 1>to see all the pieces of my childhood fit together.

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<v Speaker 1>I have often wished these last months that I could

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<v Speaker 1>tell my mother about Epstein. He grew up on our street, Mom,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say, he grew up on our street, Mom,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say, given the family, the neighborhood, the government,

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<v Speaker 1>the culture, and the world in which we live. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>pretty sure I know how she would respond, nodding, hands ahead.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm shocked, but not surprised. I always felt proud to

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<v Speaker 1>say I grew up in seagate. I see now, though,

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<v Speaker 1>that whenever there's an inside the gate and an outside,

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<v Speaker 1>there will be secrets and danger on both sides of

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<v Speaker 1>the fence. Going through my mother's effects, recently, I discovered

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<v Speaker 1>the last thing she scribbled into her writing journal. The

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00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.880
<v Speaker 1>words were barely legible because she was ninety two when

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<v Speaker 1>she wrote them, and had a tremor. A single sentence

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<v Speaker 1>on the top of the blank page in an otherwise

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<v Speaker 1>empty spiral notebook, sexual abuse by my father. Since I

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<v Speaker 1>am the last of our tribe, I am the only

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<v Speaker 1>one left to tell the story. The names of all

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<v Speaker 1>participants in this story have been changed to protect their privacy.

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<v Speaker 1>Gabrielle Glancy is a poet, novelist, and essayist whose work

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<v Speaker 1>has appeared in The New Yorker, the Paris Review, and

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<v Speaker 1>The American Poetry Review. She has just completed a memoir

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<v Speaker 1>entitled You Win all Right. I Mean, look, sometimes I

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<v Speaker 1>I pretend to be exasperated by the stuff I'm reading

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<v Speaker 1>and what I'm responding to. I admit it. Everything you're

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<v Speaker 1>hearing me, any noise you hear me is completely involuntary,

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<v Speaker 1>is I don't I don't understand why this was written,

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<v Speaker 1>and if it was written for the purpose, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was written to try to exonerate Jeffrey Epstein for

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<v Speaker 1>what he did. Why would you what? Why would you

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<v Speaker 1>say that your neighborhood was filled with people of your

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<v Speaker 1>ethnic background and there was like seven pedophiles on your

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<v Speaker 1>block that were openly engaged and nothing is being done

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<v Speaker 1>about it? And what does it say about a culture

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<v Speaker 1>that's so insular that they would allow it to keep happening?

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<v Speaker 1>And why would you want that culture anywhere near yours?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what else to say. I guess it's

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<v Speaker 1>just a matter of is this the typical Yeah, this

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<v Speaker 1>didn't happen. Yes, some of it happen. It's over exaggerated.

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<v Speaker 1>But why in the hell, if it's a lie, would

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<v Speaker 1>someone use this lie where you're trying to exonerate one

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<v Speaker 1>of your co ethnics by demonizing all of your co

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<v Speaker 1>ethnics in the neighborhood you grew up in. I don't know, man,

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<v Speaker 1>All I know is if there was one open that

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<v Speaker 1>everyone knew, Hey, that guy is fucking boys and girls.

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<v Speaker 1>A guy would have been thrown off of a fucking roof.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember one time the apartment building I grew up

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<v Speaker 1>in had a had a ground floor apartment, but it

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<v Speaker 1>had a street level apartment. So to get to the

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<v Speaker 1>apartments in the building, you had to walk upstairs and

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<v Speaker 1>you had to be buzzed in. But there was also

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<v Speaker 1>a door on the front of the building which was

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<v Speaker 1>a street level apartment. I remember one time a guy

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<v Speaker 1>just walked into the neighborhood. No one knew who he was,

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<v Speaker 1>no one recognized him. I was there, and I must

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<v Speaker 1>have been twelve or thirteen years old, and this guy,

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<v Speaker 1>just because the people who lived there would leave the door,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, wide open during the day because you know it.

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<v Speaker 1>We're you know, this neighborhood. We protect it, We protect

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<v Speaker 1>each other and keep it safe as best we can.

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<v Speaker 1>Guy walked in, probably ten feet into the apartment, looked

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<v Speaker 1>around and headed up. I grew up on a hill,

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<v Speaker 1>and he started walking up the hill. I knocked on

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<v Speaker 1>the door. I cannot remember the name of the guy

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<v Speaker 1>who lived there. It's a very long time ago. He

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<v Speaker 1>grabbed the golf club, chased the guy down and beat

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<v Speaker 1>him with a golf club to the point where he

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<v Speaker 1>compound fractured his arm. That's for looking around somebody's apartment.

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<v Speaker 1>Now imagine somebody molesting that guy's kid. I know I

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<v Speaker 1>don't do these very often, but I mean, I just

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't pass it up. It's just reading the This

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<v Speaker 1>is the most I'm going to be thinking about this

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<v Speaker 1>for I don't know how long. But thank you for

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<v Speaker 1>your interest, thank you for listening, and I'll link to

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<v Speaker 1>the article. I'll do it through archive because I have

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<v Speaker 1>a feeling I can't see this article staying up. If

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<v Speaker 1>this we we have graduated out of clown world and

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<v Speaker 1>into something completely beyond that. If they decide they're and

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<v Speaker 1>keep this article up, take care. Thank you,