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Speaker 1: Greetings. Yesterday's name was interrupted, although primary goal has not

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yet been achieved.

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Speaker 2: Solution is near.

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Speaker 1: Game time elapsed thirty one hours, twelve minutest seconds festinated

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time remaining fifty two hours, seventeen minutes, ten second.

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Speaker 2: What is the primary goal.

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Speaker 1: To win the game?

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Speaker 3: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't

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Be Serious podcast. We are here with part two of

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our Tron Versus Wargames series. Shall we play a game?

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Speaker 4: I've got Gallagher that I've been paid to train myself on.

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I've got Space Paranoids, I've got Matrix Blaster. Those are

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Flynn games. Are you sitting comfortably then we'll begin.

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Speaker 3: Okay, guys, if you haven't caught the first episode, I

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introduced Chad. He is a guy who specializes in the

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intersection between environmental conditions and national security. He has advised

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various universities. He has consulted with US departments and military ops.

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Speaker 5: He's a super cool.

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Speaker 3: Dude who loves eighties movies and music just like us,

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which I think is why he's here today.

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Speaker 5: Chad, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: Man, Thank you very much appreciate being here.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so, the last time we were here, I mentioned

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that Lawrence Lasker and Walter Parks had this monumental, pivotal

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meeting with a guy who said, hey, have you.

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Speaker 5: Seen computer games.

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Speaker 3: You notice how similar they are to the NORAD screens

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and how those things might intersect. And that was a

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huge moment for them. And that guy that I mentioned

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was named Peter Schwartz. Peter Schwartz actually turns out is

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a very famous guy futurist. But after the show, Chad

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told me, Hey, I didn't want to interrupt you, but

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I know Peter, so tell us, tell us what you

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know about Peter Schwartz.

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Speaker 2: Peter Schwartz originally worked for Rand Corporation, which itself was

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attached to the US Air Force and was a think

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tank for the US military to try to think about

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things like what would nuclear war be like. So all

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the ideas of wargames started at the Rand Corporation, and

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then Peter Schwartz and a few others started what was

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known as the Global Business Network that was associated with

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my work at the Department of Energy. So when he

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wrote one of the first papers for the Pentagon about

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intersection of climate change and national security, he met me

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a little while after that. Actually apologized to me because

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I was about to point out to him I was

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just some young guy right leading leading the steam that

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I was like, even, mister Schwartz, you're got a couple

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of things wrong here. Oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah,

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we're not experts on this. This is up to you. Now,

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this up to you. Now you take it, you take it, so,

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you know, really gracious. But yeah, we worked with all

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these futurists because I suppose that's part of my work myself.

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You know, we try to think of what will conditions

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be like in the future, what will technology look like,

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what will that effect have on the environment, and how

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to that all fit with national security and homeland security

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and just what people are trying to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I saw something that you had done

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a few years ago, where you were talking about how

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they had in the nineties they had developed all of

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these rejections about Arctic conditions, and everybody had relied on

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those predictions, and then by the early two thousands, everybody

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just kind of said, well, these were all wrong and

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we have to throw them all out.

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Speaker 2: Right. The models will only tell you what you programmed

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them to tell you, So if you don't get the models, right,

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or if you don't have the data. Right. Yeah, with

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the Arctic, they were measuring the wrong things. They were

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you know, you can get satellite photos of how much

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ice there is in the Arctic, but that's just extent,

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doesn't tell you the volume. So we were making policies

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based on conditions that we were hoping it was going

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to be a linear sort of relationship. Right, Well, tomorrow

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will be pretty much like yesterday, just a little bit

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more so. But no, things just started changing a lot

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more quickly.

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Speaker 3: Well, and we've we're only able to look at what

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we have the ability to look at, right. That's another

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problem is that they will focus on something that we

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have the capacity to see and completely ignore something that

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they know is out there, but they have no ability

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to monitor it or see it.

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Speaker 2: So the rooms felled the unknowns, right. But that relates

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to these movies too, right, because when you're looking in

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at early warning. For movies like Wargame, they have to

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rely upon what the radars are telling them or what

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the satellites are telling them, and if they don't see

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things from other places, they're not going to know about it. Right.

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So there's even a scene in the movie where one

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of the aids comes up to General Bearinger Barry Corbin's character, right,

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and says, General, we have this new information that the

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Russians have developed a new stealth bomber that can project

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its radar image seventy five miles away from God and

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where Jason are shadows now, right. So yeah, it's all

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based upon what we know. Is just sort of what

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we know, and that makes it really tough to sort

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of simulate things that that can happen in the future.

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So we're sort of basing everything according to, you know,

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our own assumptions and our own understanding of everything.

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Speaker 3: So I got a couple of practical questions. First, in

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the real world, do they call them war games?

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Speaker 2: They do.

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Speaker 3: They don't just call them simulations. They don't get offended

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at the term war games.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you're working with people who aren't in the military,

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then they don't necessarily like war games as much as simulations.

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But simulations tends to suggest that it's computerized, whereas wargames

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can be pen and paper kind of stuff. And that's

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a lot of what I've done in the past is

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just really simplified sort of war games. But yeah, they'll

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call them war games. There's a lot of terminology that

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actually picked up from that movie. Even the term firewall

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was picked up from war games, that no one used

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that popularly until after the movie. Can we invade the

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deep logic?

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Speaker 4: Keep hitting a damn firewall?

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Speaker 2: Wants to play a game?

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Speaker 4: Then play it? Do they call it whopper?

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Speaker 2: Only a burger king.

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Speaker 3: I just got to say this real quick, and I'm

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kind of going off. I'm going off topic, but I

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mentioned all I mentioned a great deal of your experience.

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You've also written some books. You've also got a role

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playing game.

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Speaker 2: Well, I write for role playing games. This is what

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I did as a teenager. So for those in the

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real nerd world of role playing games. Yeah, yeah, I

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grew up in Wisconsin, so that's where gen Con was,

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which was the biggest and that's where Dungeons of Dragons created.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I got picked up when I was fifteen as a

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writer for one of these companies because they all thought

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I looked older. They all thought I was in grad

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school and I wasn't about to crack them and go guys,

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I you know I can work for you, but I

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haven't graduated in high school yet.

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Speaker 5: I have to get a ride.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll show up to your party, but my mom

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will have to pick me up afterwards.

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Speaker 5: So so how many of these?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the one that I saw was the Broken

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Arrow Chernobyl. What other ones have you got out there?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's for called Culu, Right, I'm really especialist from

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pen Dragon, which is Arthuriance King Arthur. And I will

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tell you guys that back in the eighties. Maybe it's

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different now, but if you were a real, real expert

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in Arthurian romance literature in junior high, it did not

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help you with girls at all. Years later, all that

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experience was worthwhile because, Yeah, a lot of the experience

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I got from role playing games worked into how to

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actually construct wargames, because the whole idea of wargames is

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can you make the scenario believable? And if you're basing

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it on something that's already there. So the first scene

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in the movie Wargames, right, it's a drill and they

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don't know it, but it's all based on what they've

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been trained to do already, right, So they take it

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completely seriously and are probably pretty shaken up afterwards when

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they realized that that was only a drill. Now, if

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you create something a whole clot that's a lot tougher because,

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just like you said, you take to a simulation what

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you bring with you. So it's just like you guys,

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remember an empire strikes back when Luke is on Degoba

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and just before he goes into the cave where he

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has this fight with a sort of Darth Vader that

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turns out to be himself. Right, But before he goes

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into the cave, he asked Yoda what's in there? And

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Yoda replies, only what you take with you. Right. So

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when we design wargames, it's always based upon what are

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the participants going to get out of this, What do

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they need to know, and what do they value the

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most so that they can suspend disbelief and then think

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that this is actually real. Right, They'll feel that it's real,

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they'll feel that it's consequential.

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Speaker 4: So everybody wint a gun and another guy and say

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turn the key, sir.

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Speaker 2: No. But I did have a war game. This was

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spring twenty seventeen in Kosovo. I had to cut it

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short because it was starting to get it was potentially

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getting violent, and students who normally would be really quiet

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and just really good students, but they were taking it

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so seriously, and partly because part of the scenario dealt

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with refugees, and if you were that age in Kosovo,

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some of your first memories were being a refugee during

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the ninety nine war. So it hit all the buttons

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for them, and then they took it completely seriously. That's

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what's really important, and they touch upon it in these

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movies too, Right, is that in wargames they take it

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seriously because there are consequences and because this already fits

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with what they believe and to think differently. Right the

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last scene in the movie where Joshua suddenly has to

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realize the futility of all this in reality, that can

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take decades, right to go through all the war games,

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a human war game to retrain your organization, you know,

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if it's like the US military, and there are examples

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of this in the past that can take ages and ages.

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But they're just hoping that maybe if you computerize that

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and say, you know, number of players zero, maybe maybe

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you can do it in a couple of minutes while

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you're working out all the all the potential simulated nuclear attacks.

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And I think Tron does it a bit too, although there,

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it's a little bit different because like when Flynn goes

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into the computer, he knows he's in the computer, he

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knows he's somewhere different.

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Speaker 5: Alan, where did you hear that name? Well, that's your name,

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isn't it the name of my user?

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Speaker 2: Right? And he's just trying to get the information about

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Dillinger and get back out, which is the kind of

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classic Disney fantasy, you know, quest and so forth. War

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Games was a little scarier just because remember there was

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that one line where Matthew Broderick asks is this real

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or is this just a game?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And the computer pauses for a second and comes back

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and says, what's the difference? And when it's computer controlled,

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that's that's chilling because the computer doesn't care. And that's

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why you always need the humans there.

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Speaker 3: So real world, is there ever a situation where the

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participants do not know that it is a simulation, Like

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at the beginning of War Games, where I mean John

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Spencer's character, I mean he's sweating bullets.

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Speaker 5: They think this is really happening.

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Speaker 3: He's pointing, Michael Madsen's pointing the gun to get this

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job done.

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Speaker 5: They had no idea that it was a simulation. Does

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that really happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that can happen, and sometimes it can have bad

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consequences too. So T eighteen, State of Hawaii carries out

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and emerges drill, unscheduled, unannounced drill about their emergency announcement system.

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But one of the guys working doesn't know that it's

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really a drill. He thinks it's real, right, And one

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of the supervisors had gone off script and even said, no, no,

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there's a missile in coming from North Korea. This is

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not a drill. So he actually doesn't do the drill stuff.

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He goes through the extra screens to send out an

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emergency alert, and the whole state of Hawaii everyone gets

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an alert on their phone saying there's a missile income

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in and of course they don't know that it's not real. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, wow.

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Speaker 4: You know, you mentioned a couple of things there that

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I wanted to talk about when we got to the

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movie portion of this discussion. So you talked about how

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writing role player games is not great at getting girls

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in high school. The moment when Matthew Broderick and Ali

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Sheety are starting their relationship is such a really neat

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moment in the movie because it's that perfect moment where

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that you're shifting from the friend zone to the relationship zone,

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and it's that moment where you like touching hands but

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not really holding hands. Is this happening? Are we really

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moving this direction?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: And they're feeling each other out for are we boyfriend

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and girlfriend? That type of thing, And to have the

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world go into disarray at the exact moment you're trying

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to figure out if you've got a girlfriend or a boyfriend.

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I just found that moment neat this time around in

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the movie that I'd kind of forgotten about.

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Speaker 3: I'm I was going to be on TV next week.

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Speaker 2: Whoops. It was such great chemistry between Ali Sheety and

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Matthew Broderick there, Yeah, because because it's it's just sort

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of unspoken, especially when they're when they're in the bedroom

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the first time, right and they start the game. Yeah,

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he scenes obviously trying to show off and change your grade. Yeah,

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I could be useful for you. But but it was

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more than that. Later.

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Speaker 3: That was the first scene because obviously they were very

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nervous after Martin Bresk got fired. They were worried about

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their jobs as well, and so that was the first

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scene that John Badam filmed with them, and he said

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that we did take after take after take, and they

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were just so stiff. And he said, I realized in

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reading this that there was that if I was a

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kid who had the capacity to change my school grade

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by using a computer, and I was showing it to

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a girl I liked, I would be freaking out and ecstatic.

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I wouldn't be all dark and mysterious. And he said

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he had to shoot this thing over and over again

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to get them to finally relax and have fun. But

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once they once they broke through, they really did. They

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Their chemistry was spot on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you mentioned the moment where she traps

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him with her legs. Yeah, there's some sexual overture there

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that I didn't catch in the fifth grade or whatever.

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It's just kind of teasing, you know, flirtation, but it

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catches that moment where you like, you're trapping me with

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your legs right around my crotch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you mom intervenes to yell at you

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and come down. That's right, take out the garbage.

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Speaker 4: Your little friend can stay for dinner.

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Speaker 5: Her eye roll and laugh is so it is. She's

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so cute.

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Speaker 4: The moment when they're in class together and the teacher

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says he's talking about asexual reproduction, and he leans over

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and tells her a joke and she starts laughing, and

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the teacher's like, all right, lightman, what is it? Can

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you tell me who had the idea first for asexual reproduction?

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Speaker 2: All right, lightening, maybe you could tell us who first

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suggested the idea of reproduction without sex?

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Speaker 4: Your wife. He delivers it spot on number one. But

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when you listen to the movie, you can tell there's

301
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tons of adults laughing in the background, and that was

302
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a spontaneous moment and a lot of people laughed out loud.

303
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Speaker 5: In the crew. Funny moment.

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Speaker 4: That's great, By the way, the moment at the end

305
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,159
of the movie. I wanted to talk about the tic

306
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,679
tac toe moment, the climax of the movie, the learning

307
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that is going on right there by Joshua. When I

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watched it this time around, you know, they put tick

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tactoe up and they hope that he'll learn quickly.

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Speaker 5: Seems like he should have.

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Speaker 4: If all he does all day long is play computer

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simulation games, wouldn't that be something that he would already know.

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Speaker 5: He'd never played himself, okay, playing.

314
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Speaker 2: But I had this idea. Why why didn't Falcon think

315
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,879
of that? Why didn't Falcon at some point in his

316
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,120
career think, hey, Joshua, you should play yourself.

317
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Speaker 4: He thinks about about two seconds when the whole thing's on.

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Speaker 3: The line, I'm gonna get on my phone and ask

319
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chat GPT to play itself a game of tictac Co

320
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and see what happens.

321
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Speaker 4: Zero players.

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Speaker 5: The only winning move is not to play. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I do want to mention for that last scene the

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computer graphics. I mean, that was sort of simple vector graphics.

325
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They're only using three colors. That still I think holds

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up today. I mean, the whole visual of seeing all

327
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the all the simulations suddenly play out all at once

328
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and all these sort of bright circles with nuclear impacts

329
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were that that really didn't age all that well. I

330
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,200
mean maybe younger people look at it and they'll say, oh,

331
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that that looks really cheesy, right, But I think that

332
00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:09,240
was pretty remarkable. And I did want to give Badam

333
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credit for that because they spent so much money on

334
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that set. They spent like a million dollars on that

335
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:16,759
nor Read set to the point where the Norrid officers

336
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:18,720
when they saw the movie went back, why does an

337
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,840
our control room look as good as that? But I

338
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also think Badam, I mean Badam had been in the

339
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Air Force, and he was such a big fan of

340
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Stanley Kubrick. And if you look back at a movie

341
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like two thousand and one, two thousand and one, you know,

342
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,600
Kubrick was so good at again as a futurist of

343
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thinking what will computer interfaces look like? And if you

344
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go back at that movie and you'll see all these

345
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,159
liquid crystal flat touch displays, you know, stuff that didn't

346
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actually exist for decades. And you compare that to any movie,

347
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any other science fiction movie up until about the mid nineties,

348
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right where you take like Mother from the movie Alien,

349
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which just like so antiquated nowadays, right, But I think

350
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it was part of that influence, and so he actually

351
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influenced what Norad. Nor Ad control room looks more like

352
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,960
the Wargames movie today than it did back then.

353
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Speaker 4: Hey, not only that, Not only that President Reagan watched

354
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Wargames at Camp David, like the day it came out,

355
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and the next day at the meeting with the chiefs

356
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of Staff, he's like, hey, guys, can people break into

357
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our computer system and they realized, hey, this is actually

358
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a vulnerability to the United States. This movie impacted the

359
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actual defense of the United States.

360
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so the cybersecurity defense really really took a

361
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step up with this movie. I'm not sure if the

362
00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:43,480
whole hacking community was happy about that.

363
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Speaker 4: But all they need to do is type in the

364
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word pencil and they can get ready.

365
00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:47,519
Speaker 5: In no problem.

366
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Speaker 2: Well, they were really relying upon a lot of the

367
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real hackers for technical expertise, but it's still had to

368
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be a movie, so they couldn't go through all the

369
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login screens and you know what it would actually take

370
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to get into the Heights Cool telnet. Otherwise it was

371
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it was fairly accurate.

372
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Speaker 3: So I'm trying to think of situations that are similar.

373
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I don't think, I mean, and probably they would be

374
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kept secret at this point anyway, But I don't think

375
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that I've heard of a situation where someone is hacked

376
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into the government's computer system and caused some real trouble.

377
00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:22,160
I kind of remember a few years ago, maybe five

378
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six years ago, the movie The Interview, the Seth Rogan movie,

379
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where it was the idea was that Korea had hacked

380
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into something and was they were going to like bomb

381
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the theaters that were that were showing this movie because

382
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it was a strong anti North Korea movie. But it

383
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,839
turns out it was just a disgruntled employee from Sony.

384
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Speaker 5: Do you remember who had hacked into it?

385
00:18:43,799 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 3: Now, that's that's the kind of big scale hack thing

386
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,839
that I remember from the recent past. But are you

387
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,599
aware of chat Are you aware of any like big

388
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,319
hacks that have occurred? Well?

389
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the Chinese government hacked into the Office

390
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:58,519
of Personnel Management for the US government and basically stole

391
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the identities of every American. I mean potentially every American

392
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,000
who had a security clearance, which is not something the

393
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,119
US government likes to talk about a whole lot, but

394
00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:10,559
I mean it's out there. It happened. So you're talking

395
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:14,599
about digital identities, you know in tron it's also possible

396
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,519
to go in and steal those and for people to

397
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:19,920
have those information. The same thing happened with some of

398
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,920
the credit agencies like Experience, right, and all that information

399
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,279
had been stolen. But a lot of the back doors

400
00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:29,400
these days look a little different, right, It's not just

401
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,240
the sort of one person sitting there hacking in and

402
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,319
oftentimes these are done by worms or you know. So

403
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,880
there was just in the news there was a Russian

404
00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:40,759
worm that was called Snake that was finally shut down

405
00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:44,440
and been operating for years. There was one called Solar Winds,

406
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,359
which had compromised a lot of US government computers to

407
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,160
the point where they don't even know exactly what was taken.

408
00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:54,559
A number of years ago, you had not Petya, which

409
00:19:54,599 --> 00:19:57,440
the Russians had written to try to take out hospitals

410
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,480
in Ukraine. This is about twenty twenty eighteen, twenty seventeen,

411
00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:04,640
but turns out it spread because you can't exactly tell

412
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,920
a worm where to go, and it ended up knocking

413
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,200
out a lot of the global logistics companies for a while,

414
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,759
so Federal express and ups caused billions of dollars of

415
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:17,359
damage for those companies. So yeah, these things do happen.

416
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,079
And a little more cinematically, just two months ago, there

417
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,480
were hackers that broke into Russian state TV and basically

418
00:20:25,519 --> 00:20:28,640
started a nuclear alert, told everyone that a missile was

419
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,640
in coming, take cover, and so a lot of TV

420
00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:35,400
viewers in Moscow and Stutlosk saw that, and then the

421
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,920
Russian government had to quickly fall up and say no, no, no,

422
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,079
that we were just kidding. We're just kidding, you know.

423
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,319
And I didn't see who actually hacked did the hacking there,

424
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,160
but a lot of creative hackers in Ukraine. A lot

425
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,720
of Ukrainian hackers actually worked for the Russian FSB before

426
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:55,880
the war, usually not willingly. FSB would usually come up

427
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,200
to hackers and say, hey, guys, we know who you are,

428
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,559
we know what you do. We're we're going to just

429
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,960
keep letting you do what you do, but you know,

430
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,640
just don't attack the Russian government. And sometime we're going

431
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,279
to come up and ask you for a favor or two,

432
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:10,599
and if you ever tell on us, we'll expose you

433
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,640
to the Ukrainian authorities or the FBI or whoever else.

434
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,839
So yeah, there's plenty of that that goes on. But no, no,

435
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,680
the government and corporations don't like to talk about it

436
00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,240
very much because it's bad for business.

437
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 4: It's awesome and scary all at the same time. We

438
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,599
have doctor chadbriggs On here to give us the behind

439
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,759
the scenes stuff on actual war games and these crazy

440
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,799
incidents that happened in history and the time we almost

441
00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:36,599
got our titslit up by Russia in nineteen eighty three.

442
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:40,000
And I'm here to tell you that the tunnel that

443
00:21:40,079 --> 00:21:42,599
they used in the movie War Games, they actually.

444
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 3: Used in Back to the Future Part two. They also

445
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,960
used it in Who Framed Rout Your Rabbit?

446
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 4: There you go, that's what I'm famous.

447
00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:50,799
Speaker 5: Famous tunnel.

448
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 4: It's at a park in Los Angeles.

449
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,799
Speaker 5: Have you been there? Nope? All right, put it on

450
00:21:56,839 --> 00:21:57,720
the to do list, yep.

451
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,519
Speaker 4: Okay, can we talk about the Tron video game for

452
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:02,000
a second?

453
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 5: Do it?

454
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 4: Okay, I've got some pretty cool stuff on this all right?

455
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 5: Excited?

456
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 4: So in nineteen eighty two, bally Midway released the Tron

457
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:21,039
video game. But in nineteen eighty one, Disney went to

458
00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:23,200
bally Midway and said, hey, you want to make a

459
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,759
game for this movie coming out. Here's the deal. It's

460
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:27,599
fall of nineteen eighty one. We got to have it

461
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,920
by summer of nineteen eighty two, so you better get

462
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,200
on it right this second. Well, this guy named Bill

463
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,599
Adams was the programmer. He almost didn't take the job

464
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,119
because it was such a tight window. They wanted him

465
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,200
to play six different games inside the arcade game, but

466
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:45,079
because of the time crunch, we only got four.

467
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:46,839
Speaker 5: Right, So you get.

468
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,039
Speaker 4: The light cycles, which is super fun. You get the

469
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,079
battle tanks, which is similar to like.

470
00:22:51,079 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 5: Combat and Atari exactly.

471
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,559
Speaker 4: You get where you fight the spiders or the grid bugs,

472
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,799
and then you've got the part where you destroy the

473
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,240
MCU that's rotating through and each time you level up

474
00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:03,960
it gets a little bit harder, a little bit faster,

475
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:06,759
a little more tanks, and is tremendous amount of fun.

476
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,680
Another game you allude to earlier, the discs of Tron,

477
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,039
came out in nineteen eighty three, about eighteen months after

478
00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:16,240
the movie came out, but that was during the great

479
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:19,039
video game crash of nineteen eighty three, so it did

480
00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:21,640
not do as well. I remember playing this game like

481
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,319
you're not even talking about. It was actually a like

482
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,640
a full embodied game where you sit and you have

483
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,359
a surround sound and playing a disc war against a

484
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,000
different guy. The Tron video game made forty five million

485
00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:37,960
dollars in quarters, which was more than the movie itself.

486
00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, they they did everything right. The outside of

487
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,319
the game had all of the lights and lines from

488
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,839
the movie that just lit it up more than virtually.

489
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,640
I mean, you just think about games like that are great,

490
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,079
like Galaga, Donkey Kong and mizpac Man and all of

491
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,440
these other games. Great games, but the cabinet was all

492
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,799
pretty much the same, with just a different picture posted

493
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,319
on the side.

494
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:09,559
Speaker 5: Right.

495
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the Tron game, you had a backlit Tron

496
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,200
logo up at the top. You had all of these

497
00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,519
computer lines going through. You had a very shiny display

498
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,279
in front of a unique gaming system.

499
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:23,759
Speaker 5: Because what o their games?

500
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: Did you get both aviator style joystick buttons and a

501
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,079
spin knob?

502
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 5: Yeah?

503
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: I mean you got spin knobs on some and joysticks

504
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,119
on the other, but not both of them together at

505
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,519
the same time that you have to use in conjunction.

506
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,039
Plus you've got a trigger on the joystick.

507
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,519
Speaker 4: I mean it was plus we talked about earlier the

508
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:44,680
fantastic soundtrack. You're getting Wendy Carlos blown at your ears

509
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,359
every time you play Tronto, and it was awesome.

510
00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:50,759
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna use that opportunity to segue into Wendy Carlos.

511
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: Okay, So Wendy Carlos. You mentioned I think in.

512
00:24:54,079 --> 00:24:56,799
Speaker 3: Our last episode that she had she'd have been involved

513
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,680
with the shining, she'd have been involved what was the

514
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,119
other movie, oh, Twork Orange. Yeah, so you remember the

515
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,559
soundtrack from those movies all very heavy on electronic style music.

516
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,799
She was a pioneer in the field. She put out

517
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,640
an album I think in maybe in the sixties. Even

518
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,039
it was a computerized synthesizer version of Bach music, which

519
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,039
was unheard of at the time. I mean, people playing

520
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:24,880
with computer music were making beeps and bops like you're

521
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,400
surrounded by eighteen different computer games. She took it and

522
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,359
played branden Berg concerto. I mean, it was amazing what

523
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,839
she did, which is why she got involved with the

524
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:36,960
Shining and why she got involved with blockwork Orange. You know,

525
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,880
again Stanley Kubrick seeing the future of entertainment, but you're

526
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,480
on it. But she had been trained as a classical composer, like, yeah,

527
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,480
I'm good at making electronic music, but I also can

528
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:51,480
create real music, and that's.

529
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 5: What she got the opportunity to do with Tron.

530
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:57,039
Speaker 3: The only problem is they gave her two days to

531
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,640
come up with both, and she had this intention to

532
00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:02,680
have of you know, living orchestra music for the real

533
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:06,920
world with the electronic music or the computer world. And

534
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,599
she's having a cram all of this into a couple

535
00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:12,880
of days. So ultimately you get a bit of overlap

536
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:13,960
because she.

537
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 5: Had to go in and fix problems that.

538
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 3: Occurred with the live music by sampling in computer music

539
00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:24,519
to overcome mistakes where the microphone is too far away whatever,

540
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,400
and what you get. I mean, it's just amazing that

541
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,000
she accomplished this in such a short amount of time,

542
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:33,640
because it is, I would say again one of the

543
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,440
most memorable aspects.

544
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:35,799
Speaker 5: Of the environment.

545
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the music with the visuals was just

546
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:42,200
so intoxicating that I just didn't even pay attention to

547
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,720
the story until I don't know, years and years later,

548
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,759
and it was, you know, okay, well, evil guy in

549
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:49,359
a three piece suit, I don't care about that, but

550
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,200
wells to the music right, right, right right, and tying

551
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,599
it into the arcade, right, because all the other arcade

552
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,599
music up until that point was just sort of bells

553
00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:01,039
and whistles kind of stopped right and you'd get some

554
00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:04,599
things that you could remember, like the Donkey kongt I

555
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,279
personally think that that influenced a lot of later computer

556
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,000
games to this day. Where you get the music track

557
00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:14,119
is so important, you know, and computer companies invest a

558
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,680
lot into making sure that they get the music right.

559
00:27:16,839 --> 00:27:19,079
Speaker 4: And like I said, anytime I entered the arcade, but

560
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,599
your ears out tron is in the back corner because

561
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:23,160
I can hear Wendy Carlos.

562
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 5: Following my ears yep to the soundtrack yep. Okay.

563
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: So with War Games, composer was a guy named Arthur Rubinstein.

564
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,799
He'd done a great many shows before he ended up

565
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:37,480
doing Stakeout, which you know one of your favorites. Love Stakeout,

566
00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:40,279
did The Nick of Time and a few others. I

567
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,839
told Jason when I was watching this. When I started

568
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,599
the movie, I was like, Okay, this this movie is

569
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,240
kind of going to be stuck in the eighties and

570
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:50,200
it's going to be kind of forgettable because he's got

571
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,079
a eighties style synthesizer playing. But what happens once they

572
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,119
get into the full thick of the adventure he moves

573
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,599
into frustration. And I told Jason, I think it's on

574
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,960
par with John Williams. Just think about how many times

575
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,519
you have a camera rotating around the whopper computer that

576
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,519
I mean, literally nothing is happening except lights are going off,

577
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:15,039
but because you have that intense music behind it, you

578
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,240
are petrified that the bombs are about to fall, right.

579
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,759
I mean, it is just so well done. Now they

580
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:25,079
also enlisted the help of several music artists to come

581
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,960
help them with this movie, but it ended up being

582
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,119
bad timing because once they had developed their whole library

583
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,400
of songs to pick from, they get a new president

584
00:28:35,559 --> 00:28:39,519
of the studio who meets with them and he's like, oh, no, songs,

585
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:42,319
they don't ever help a movie. And John Badam's like,

586
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:46,839
Saturday Night Fever. God, I don't know if you remember

587
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,000
it or not, it's one of my movies and pretty

588
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,279
important to have the beg's on the soundtrack on that one.

589
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 4: First of all, that guy is dead wrong. Obviously, soundtracks

590
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,880
in the eighties were humongous business, huge, but you're talking

591
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,079
to the guy who directed Sadaight.

592
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 3: Fever, right, we don't need any songs coslutely. So they

593
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,839
had to scramble, and he Arthur Rubinstein had to come

594
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,839
up with more music to fill the spots that they

595
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,240
had planned to put popular music in. And so he's

596
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,000
he's thinking, Okay, well what do I do here? You

597
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:20,200
know what am I going to stick in this scenario?

598
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:25,599
And he says, how about a harmonica? So the harmonica

599
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,720
that's playing whenever you see John Wood, whenever you see

600
00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:33,279
Stephen fulcan flying the pterodactyl around. That is last minute,

601
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:37,079
let's throw it together. Here you go, and it's one

602
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:39,119
of the most memorable sounds from the movie.

603
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: Hey listen, that guy did a great job, that composer,

604
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:45,200
and the music is spot on. But I would like

605
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:48,160
to visit the alternate universe where we get like the

606
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,039
Jay Giles band playing a song called wargames or something

607
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:52,759
like that. Yeah, you know, I get a couple of

608
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:57,079
popular songs. Nineteen eighty three is MTV huge? Be kind

609
00:29:57,079 --> 00:29:58,119
of fun at least.

610
00:29:58,119 --> 00:29:59,599
Speaker 2: Closing credit by Duran Duram.

611
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,039
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yes, let's let's talk for a moment about what

612
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,480
doesn't work for you guys on these movies.

613
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:10,039
Speaker 2: If I could start with tron, I think, like I said,

614
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,039
maybe I mentioned in the last episode, the story just

615
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,559
was a little convoluted. Oh that is visible, let's grow

616
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:22,039
beyond itself, extend into the realm of the invisible, right,

617
00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:24,559
And it was kind of hard for people to follow.

618
00:30:24,599 --> 00:30:26,799
And I think back then it was almost impossible for

619
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:28,960
people to follow, you know, because you're talking about these

620
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,119
abstract ideas of apps and users who are really the

621
00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:35,720
programmers and the sort of master control. And as a

622
00:30:35,799 --> 00:30:39,400
kid watching it, I'm just like what Glynn already lives

623
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,279
in an apartment above a video arcade. What more does

624
00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:43,480
he want? Right?

625
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, girls taking his sweaty shirt from him and telling

626
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:50,680
him they'll catch up with him later.

627
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:55,319
Speaker 4: It's all in the risks, Glynn.

628
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:55,839
Speaker 6: How'd you know.

629
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: It the movie when he got the high score on

630
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,599
his own video game? Right? And then one thing that

631
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,240
just kind of bothered me when I watched it again

632
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:10,240
was that at the end, you know, Jeff Bridges, he

633
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,440
gets to Master Control and he gets the proof that

634
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:16,759
Dillinger had stolen his programs, and he prints it out

635
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:18,960
on a dot matrix back in the real world, and

636
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:20,079
that's enough.

637
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 5: What that's it.

638
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:23,079
Speaker 4: That's all the game over.

639
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,359
Speaker 5: There's no way to fake this.

640
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,319
Speaker 2: No no, of course, which completely goes against what we

641
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,599
all understand now, which is if it's digitalized, you can

642
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,200
fake it, right, and just having a print out doesn't

643
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,880
mean anything. In terms of war games, I would say

644
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,240
that a lot of it still generally holds true. I mean,

645
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,240
the whole idea of war dialing, where you just sort

646
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,960
of randomly dialing numbers to try to find computers, that

647
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:48,960
was all that was completely real. The idea about possibly

648
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,279
having a backdoor into the DoD that could happen, right,

649
00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:57,039
because there is this idea of remote work, so you know,

650
00:31:57,319 --> 00:31:59,319
they're always sort of backdoors, and it was good that

651
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:01,319
they actually had the scene to kind of explain that

652
00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:01,839
to people.

653
00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 3: Those by the way to nerds, the two Hacker nerds,

654
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:07,839
those guys were fantastic casting.

655
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:09,079
Speaker 2: Potato had.

656
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:13,119
Speaker 4: Hey, you remember when I told you you're being annoying?

657
00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:14,799
Speaker 5: That was one of those times.

658
00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: I don't know how you would get from Colorado to

659
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,359
some small airport in Oregon on whatever sort of salary

660
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,079
that Ali Sheety's character had, you know, from from her

661
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,880
high school. So that always kind of bugged me a

662
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,200
little bit. It's like, wait, how would she afford that?

663
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,519
But that was just sort of a minor thing, and

664
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,519
I don't know, the tic tac toe of thing always

665
00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:42,640
bothered me just a little bit. I know it needed

666
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,759
to be there for the story and it led into

667
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,240
what was what was really visually and in terms of

668
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:52,799
the music and the tension, everything striking where they're showing

669
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:55,680
all the different simulations playing out. But there was just

670
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,039
something a little hokey about playing tic tac toe and

671
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,480
having the computer do that and then having officers say,

672
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:08,480
don't put X in the center square. But he did

673
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:10,200
a pretty good I mean, like I said, Adam was

674
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,559
in the Air Force, so he did a pretty good

675
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,759
job in representing what Air Force officers were like and

676
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,000
what it would actually be like there. I mean, my

677
00:33:18,039 --> 00:33:20,160
grandmother used to work at NORAD, I should say, in

678
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,279
Colorado Springs. She never really told me much about it,

679
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:24,319
and I never got to go visit it, but yeah,

680
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:28,359
it was. And missile command officers they're kind of a

681
00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:31,599
different breed and you kind of got to be. Maybe

682
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,640
it's like some mariners, but if you if you spend

683
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,799
twenty four hours down in a little concrete bunker with

684
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,400
a key that can kill thirty million people, that takes

685
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,279
a different psychology. I worked with some of them. They're

686
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:45,960
great guys, but it's it's a different wow, They're they're

687
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:46,599
different people.

688
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: So are we talking like ice water in their veins

689
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:56,160
or we talking about screws that aren't fighting all the way.

690
00:33:56,519 --> 00:34:00,319
Speaker 2: It's more like the dark, dark humor that they have

691
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:03,519
to have to survive their work. And so they will

692
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,280
joke about like missile mishaps, you know, mishaps, which means

693
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,480
that a missile exploded uh, and and and talking. Yeah, yeah,

694
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,719
I remember when that when Atlas missile blew up and

695
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,360
you know, the warhead got thrown off like three hundred

696
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,840
meters and we didn't even know if it was gonna

697
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,679
blow it. Yep, Oh my gosh, which actually happened? That

698
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:24,880
did actually happen? And was it Missouri or Arkansas ran

699
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,400
around nineteen eighty. There's a whole there's a whole TV

700
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:35,199
show in Arkansas. Well, it's good, you're still here. But no,

701
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,440
it's it's just the Gallows humor that they would have

702
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,719
about things. And so I'm kind of glad that War

703
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,000
Games at least inserted a little bit of humor, because

704
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,199
the original idea for the you know, for the movie,

705
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,000
at least from the first director, you know, Breast, he

706
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:54,559
went to make it more like Faan Saite and it

707
00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:56,760
took Badham to come in and sort of insert a

708
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,639
bit of humor in there. And I think it was

709
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:01,800
the same thing with Doctor Strangers. Look, Kubrick wanted that

710
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,599
to be a really serious movie. Although once you cast

711
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:06,599
Peter Sellers and Slip Pickens, I don't know what you're

712
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:07,360
expecting to happen.

713
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 4: What in the wide wide world of sports, Well, what

714
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:13,880
about you? What didn't work for you?

715
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 3: I tend to agree with what Chad said about Tron.

716
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,480
The dot matrix printer print out just did seemed I

717
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:25,119
mean immediately I was like.

718
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 5: What this is the proof?

719
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 3: This is what that comes from the fact that I

720
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:34,239
now know how all those things work. Back in nineteen

721
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,199
eighty two, I had no idea.

722
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,559
Speaker 5: I mean I didn't. I mean I didn't get.

723
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,559
Speaker 3: The joke of that his little his yes no responder

724
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:45,719
guy is named bit and that his yes no responses

725
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:46,320
are binary.

726
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,519
Speaker 5: I didn't understand any of that.

727
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:49,079
Speaker 3: I just thought it was a cool little graphic and

728
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:55,159
it said yes no, no, yes, yeah, positive and negative nine.

729
00:35:55,199 --> 00:35:55,639
You're a bit.

730
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:01,159
Speaker 5: Well, where's your pro isn't he gonna miss yet?

731
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 3: I'm your program got a mouth sheet. So my big

732
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,239
problem with Tron is that once Flynn defeats the villain,

733
00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:20,360
he becomes the villain. Like, the next scene is him

734
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:24,320
in this high power business suit flying in on a helicopter.

735
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,400
I'm like, what, this is what you did with it?

736
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,079
You just took his place. You didn't like do something,

737
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,679
you know, rebellious and exciting. You just became another suit.

738
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:36,480
That was a little lame.

739
00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 5: For me, I actually very much.

740
00:36:39,519 --> 00:36:43,079
Speaker 3: Liked the Tic tac toe storyline for War Games. I

741
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:47,000
thought that was a brilliant way to segue the computer

742
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,320
into determining that there are no winners when it comes

743
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,119
to a global thermonuclear war. The one problem that I

744
00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:57,840
actually had with the movie was something that a whole

745
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,239
lot of people liked, and it was this scene they

746
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,280
thought they had to stick in there, and it was

747
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,519
the scene where Ali Sheety is talking to Matthew Broderick

748
00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:10,000
about I was going to be on TV and he's

749
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:12,599
saying I was going to learn how to swim, and

750
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:17,360
this whole kind of you know, sad we are not

751
00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:20,039
going to see next week, We're not going to see

752
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:22,800
our dreams come true because the world is about to end.

753
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:25,599
And it was a last minute decision to put it in.

754
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,280
And they had Tom Mankwitz Diamonds for Forever, the guy

755
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,599
who probably really wrote Superman. They said, hey, can you

756
00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:34,239
come up with a scene and give it to us

757
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,280
by tomorrow, and of course Macowitz delivers his payment. By

758
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,639
the way, was a washer dryer set. But I don't

759
00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:45,079
think that that scene was necessary for the movie. I

760
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:47,440
think they could have conveyed the same idea without having

761
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,119
that scene in there. But other than that, I thought

762
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:54,000
it was a wonderfully executed movie and I got really

763
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,239
nothing bad to say about.

764
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:55,519
Speaker 5: It at all.

765
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: By the way, none of us have mentioned yet the

766
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,599
corner of the cop scene, which the staros brilliant in

767
00:38:03,639 --> 00:38:06,000
its own way. Yeah, it doesn't need to be in

768
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,360
the movie, but I would not take it out because

769
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,840
it's one of the most memorable scenes.

770
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:13,559
Speaker 3: It gives those two parents some personality.

771
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:18,639
Speaker 4: Okay, So for me, I have a little bit of

772
00:38:18,639 --> 00:38:21,760
problems with Tron because I know for sure when I

773
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,119
was a kid and I saw it in the movie theater,

774
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,119
I was expecting more Star Wars like action. The light

775
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,920
cycles were amazing, but they're only in it for just

776
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,639
a couple of minutes throwing discs, you know, having a

777
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:37,559
disc battle like the Gladiator style disc battle I am

778
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:40,000
all on board for, and they do it a couple

779
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,559
of times. So for me, I just I wanted more

780
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:45,679
of that action. I love the world that those guys created,

781
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,679
but uh, less talkie talkie and more walky wucky. That's it.

782
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 5: That's it.

783
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: Did you ever try doing the disc fights in real life?

784
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,239
You know with frisbees?

785
00:38:54,599 --> 00:39:00,159
Speaker 6: Oh oh, yeah, brother, Yeah, yes, and war games everything

786
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:02,880
works for me except for one thing, and it's kind

787
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,079
of what you were talking about ched where there's a

788
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:08,880
timeline and they're just wasting time blind.

789
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 4: You know, here and she picks him up there and

790
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,480
the whole time, the clock is ticking and I'm sure

791
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:17,119
that there's enough time. But he escapes from nora Ad,

792
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,320
you know, he outsmarts the US military, sneaks out with

793
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,679
the bus people from Birmingham, you know, he takes a

794
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,000
fly here, she drives in there, they go to talk

795
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:29,880
to doctor Falkon. All of this is happening while the

796
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,199
Whopper is getting ready and loading the launch codes, and

797
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,360
I'm sure there's enough time. It just seems like there's

798
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,760
a lot of wasted time there. But otherwise I thought

799
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,360
these are both great movies, and Wargames especially strong. So okay,

800
00:39:41,519 --> 00:39:43,440
so before we get to final judgment, there's a couple

801
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,800
of things I want to throw out to you guys.

802
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,119
Wargames was nominated for three Oscars. They thought they had

803
00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:51,960
a pretty good movie. When they screened it in San Antonio,

804
00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:55,519
the audience stood up and cheered. You remember the last

805
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:57,840
time we talked about a movie that was screened in

806
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,280
Texas that had a very resounding audience approval.

807
00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:04,639
Speaker 5: No Jaws.

808
00:40:05,199 --> 00:40:07,119
Speaker 4: Jaws was screened in Dallas.

809
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:10,599
Speaker 3: The guy walks out, throws up, and walks back in. Right, Yep,

810
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,519
that's right, that's right.

811
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: Oh. I just wanted to mention with Jeff Bridges, like,

812
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,639
not only was he so good at Bean Flynn just

813
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:23,920
the sort of laid back big Lebowski stuff you'd see

814
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,280
later with Cowen Brothers, but because the movie kind of

815
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,800
portrayed this idea of reality and unreality and virtual reality,

816
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:37,079
I think that he portrayed that in some of the

817
00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:41,039
later movies, like dealing either with trauma or with you know,

818
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,400
just dealing with the reality of the world. So with

819
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,480
movies like Fearless and Fisher Kank with Jeff Bridges is

820
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:49,440
both in the lead and and I think those are

821
00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:52,480
brilliant movies in their own way. But I can also

822
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:55,559
see when I watched Tron again, now, hey, that's the

823
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:57,280
same Jeff Bridge we.

824
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,079
Speaker 4: Just did Big Lebaski not too long ago. He's great

825
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:03,119
in that it's a completely different characters.

826
00:41:03,519 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I don't know that I'd say completely different.

827
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,760
I got the feeling that Flynn was smoking some ty

828
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,679
Stick before before he started playing Man.

829
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, Lobatron or whatever the name of the game was.

830
00:41:16,679 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 4: He has a rug that he likes to tie the

831
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,079
whole rim together.

832
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 5: Yeah. I was gonna say, did you see his apartment? Yeah,

833
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:24,480
other than the big Tom Hanks's.

834
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: Apartment from Big, that's the apartment that I would have

835
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:27,159
wanted to have.

836
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the one right above the arcade.

837
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 3: Right above the arcade, all the hot girls with the

838
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,360
Flynn's T shirts on. I would really like to have

839
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,199
a FLYNS T shirt. Legitimately would Yeah.

840
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 4: By the way, have you ever seen somebody get so

841
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,599
sweaty playing video games? He literally comes in peels it off.

842
00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:44,280
It's like dripping with sweat.

843
00:41:44,599 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 5: Gross.

844
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, but maybe he did that. You know.

845
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,840
They put actual video games, arcade games on the set

846
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,119
so that they could practice with him. And apparently Jeff

847
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:56,639
Bridges loved playing battle Zone, which was one of my

848
00:41:56,679 --> 00:41:57,280
favorite games.

849
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,159
Speaker 4: By the way, battle Zone really vector.

850
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 2: Green, vector graphic.

851
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, are you ready for final judgment?

852
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:04,519
Speaker 5: Let's do it.

853
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,199
Speaker 4: Who's going first, Chad? Do you get to go first?

854
00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 5: Man? All right?

855
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,599
Speaker 2: I gotta say war games, you know, Tron was inspirational,

856
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:16,559
It was revolutionary. But it just didn't age or influence

857
00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:20,480
me personally in the same way. And there was so

858
00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:22,840
much to not believe about the movie when it came out,

859
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,239
you know, because you're sitting there thinking, oh, come on,

860
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,039
a talking computer, really, you know, I mean, that's not really.

861
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,519
But now we've got phones that'll talk to us.

862
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 3: You know.

863
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 2: I've got alexisiting in my desk and she'll talk to me.

864
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,159
So it's almost like the movie caught up to the

865
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:41,320
real world. And like we discussed this movie, it didn't

866
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,639
so much foreshadow because stuff was happening that we just

867
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:46,760
didn't know about, right, but life was imitating the art

868
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,679
in wargames.

869
00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:50,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't.

870
00:42:50,679 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 3: Honestly, when we started this project, I did not think I.

871
00:42:54,159 --> 00:42:57,199
Speaker 5: Would pick what I'm about to pick, because.

872
00:42:58,199 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: I think that it is a movie that of the

873
00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:04,559
two movies, it has just aged better. I love both

874
00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:07,199
of the movies when they first came out, but as

875
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,039
a little kid, Tron was more fascinating to me because

876
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,760
it had the light cycles, it had all of the

877
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,719
cool games, it had the video game associated with it.

878
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,599
Speaker 5: I mean, it was all the stuff that I.

879
00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:22,639
Speaker 3: Was completely into in nineteen eighty two, and war games

880
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,079
was I mean it was really kind of more of

881
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:27,519
a grown up movie that had a couple of teenagers

882
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:32,960
in it. Now, forty years later, I'm a grown up

883
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:37,320
and I'm going yes, not only is it a grown

884
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,559
up movie, but it is better pacing, better written, it

885
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:44,159
is better executed. The only thing that Tron wins out

886
00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:47,400
for me, hands down on is the soundtrack. Tron's soundtrack

887
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:51,119
far and above warga soundtrack, which I still think is great.

888
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:55,079
But movie to movie, no question. For me, war Games

889
00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:00,480
is better movie. Jayson, Wow, Well, I hate.

890
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: To make it the hat trick, but for me, Wargames

891
00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:08,199
is better acted. It's a better paced, the plot is compelling,

892
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,039
it's it's a better movie. I mean, war Games is

893
00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:17,559
just flat better Now. Tron is visually stunning, it's fascinating.

894
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:20,480
The use of computer graphics early on is really cool.

895
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:24,360
Soundtrack is amazing. I gave us all this great. It

896
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,920
really gave me a great universe to play in with

897
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:30,400
the discs and the tanks and the light cycles. By

898
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,880
the way, no guns in this at the insistence of

899
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,320
Steven Lisberger. That's why there's no gun of any kind.

900
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:41,920
So I love the universe of Tron, but movie to movie.

901
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,159
It is not even a contest. Wargames is far superior. However,

902
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:52,480
Tron the video game number one, Wargames number two, Tron

903
00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:54,159
the movie number three.

904
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 5: What about war games of the game game there was, dude.

905
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,119
Speaker 3: They came out Yeah, yeah, they came out with like

906
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,800
a an Atari style really aims.

907
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 4: Yeah you're not county, miss command.

908
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 5: No, I am not counting miss Yeah. It didn't fare

909
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:11,159
as well as the Trunk.

910
00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:12,039
Speaker 4: I don't remember that.

911
00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 5: One at all.

912
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 4: Chad, thank you so much for joining us.

913
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:14,559
Speaker 5: Man.

914
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,199
Speaker 4: I hope you had a great time talking about this

915
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:16,599
with us.

916
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:19,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this has been great, you know, And

917
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:23,119
I do encourage all your listeners, you know, sign up

918
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:27,440
for his Patreon and you know, become part of the project. So,

919
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:30,679
and I will say my favorite episode that you guys

920
00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:33,920
ever did was the Dirty Dancing soundtrack. I still remember

921
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,599
listening to that well well, biking through Anchorage and just thinking,

922
00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:39,320
oh my god, this is just crazy when I'm learning here.

923
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,960
And so even the music that I don't agree with,

924
00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:45,239
you know, I never knew anything about White Snake or

925
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,400
def Leppard or whatever. It just wasn't my thing and

926
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:49,719
in junior higher high school. But I'll listen to those

927
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,440
episodes because it's it's history, right.

928
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 5: Thank you. Yeah, we truly appreciate that. Man.

929
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: It has been such an incredible pleasure having you on

930
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:01,039
the show. I knew that we were going to learn

931
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:03,880
a ton and I was not let down at all

932
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,119
that you have exceeded my expectations.

933
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 5: Thank you very much.

934
00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 3: Do you have any parting words for the Shirley fans

935
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,440
other than plugging us obviously? Is there anything that we

936
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:16,000
can tell them to go check out of yours? I mean,

937
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:19,199
obviously you're an entirely different world than we are, but

938
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,960
does it help you at all if they're playing your RPGs.

939
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can look up my name under the uh

940
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:30,000
miscotonic repository, so it's called Cthulhu. I have two scenarios out,

941
00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:32,719
but I offer them for free because I was I

942
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,840
was getting paid handsomely by universities and US government, so

943
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,119
I thought I'd just give those to the world. But yeah,

944
00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:40,559
I do have a book called Disaster Security, which talks

945
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,639
extensively about wargames and how we create them and what

946
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,840
goes into them. So yeah, I definitely look for that.

947
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 3: If you want fantastic We've got to figure out another

948
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:50,280
time to get you back.

949
00:46:50,639 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, I would love to do Labyrinth.

950
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:53,039
Speaker 4: Labyrinth.

951
00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 3: Okay, interesting actually now that I think about it. Very

952
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,719
early on Chad was suggesting the Peter Gabriel album so

953
00:47:01,119 --> 00:47:03,360
and I said, oh, hey, maybe we could compare that

954
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,719
to Phil Collins and No Jacket Required and knows.

955
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 5: Maybe that's the episode to have you back for it.

956
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean anything related to Genesis, especially if

957
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,559
you go back to the Genesis of Genesis.

958
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 5: The Peter Gabriel days. They were weird.

959
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,519
Speaker 4: We talked about Yeah.

960
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,679
Speaker 2: Really, well, you guys saw my top five for nineteen

961
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,719
eighty eight, right, so you know I'm living in a

962
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,679
different world. If I put Susie in the band, she's

963
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:27,440
right up at the top.

964
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:28,599
Speaker 5: That's right there, you go.

965
00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:32,079
Speaker 4: Tatia what was the girl's name, Tatiana or something rather.

966
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: Takarum.

967
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 4: Yes, never heard of her.

968
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,159
Speaker 2: No American American audiences just don't know her. But she

969
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,320
was in the top ten in the UK. Huge, huge,

970
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:45,280
still in Norway.

971
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:46,679
Speaker 5: Awesome.

972
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,519
Speaker 4: Give us a song to listen to of hers?

973
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think her first album is still one of

974
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:56,159
the best. So Valentine Heart Twisted My Sobriety was her

975
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,400
best known but if you want something really soft and

976
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:04,440
darkly poetic Valentine Hart has. That's really one of the

977
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:05,920
most memorable for nineteen eighty eight.

978
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: For me, I'm putting it on Spotify Q as I

979
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:10,800
drive home today. Chad, thank you so much, man. It's

980
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,320
been a great time having you on here. Love talking

981
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,360
these things with another eighties nerd like us.

982
00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 2: Thank you, guys.

983
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 4: Thanks Chad, good to meet you, buddy.

984
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,519
Speaker 3: Schirly fans, be sure and come and check us out.

985
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:24,920
Our next episodes are going to be our Clint Eastwood

986
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,920
episodes any which way you can, versus every which way

987
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,000
but loose Karen Clyde, the.

988
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 4: Clint and Clyde episodes in the seventies.

989
00:48:32,679 --> 00:48:34,679
Speaker 3: Be sure and hit that subscribe button or that follow

990
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:36,880
button so that you don't miss any of those episodes.

991
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 5: We will see you guys next week.