WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:04.080 Oh hey, it's that lady that tries to learn macromae 2 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:07.599 and gives up after like four strings. Ally ward back 3 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:11.839 with another episode of Ologies. So y'all, this week was 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:17.280 supposed to be vecceleology Veccileology. I'll get it by next week, 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:20.719 which is all about Flags, and I am just hip 6 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:24.640 deep in Flags right now. I'm editing and researching and 7 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:26.760 writing this episode, and I just wanted one more week 8 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:28.719 with it because it turns out it's a very complex 9 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.239 issue with a lot of history and a lot of context. 10 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:34.719 And also I'm going to say up top, happy fiftieth 11 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.759 anniversary to my parents. They're celebrating it on August thirty first, 12 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:41.079 and so I'm taking a chill week. I'm going to 13 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:44.960 finish Flags. It'll be up on Labor Day in America 14 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.399 Monday night of next week. And in the meantime, I'm 15 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:52.520 giving you an encore presentation about dinosaurs. This is from 16 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:55.520 the early days, So you guys, if you haven't listened 17 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:58.320 to this dinosaur episode, it's one of my favorites. Listen 18 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:01.000 to it while I go celebrate my parents fiftieth anniversary. 19 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:04.120 Very exciting. If you're like, how did they make it 20 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.079 to fifty years hit the Matrimoniology episode. We talk about 21 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.799 it a little in that one, but anyway, dinosaurs, we're 22 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:13.040 going to get into it. So I recorded this as 23 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:15.959 one of the very very first Ologies episodes I ever did, 24 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:20.200 ever recorded. This is before we even had a Patreon, 25 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.599 before we even had patron questions. I just took a 26 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.159 mishmash of questions from people I knew and on Twitter. 27 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.400 I think there was a cameo in studio from editor 28 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.719 Stephen Ray Morris, who's a big dino fan. You know 29 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:36.920 this from his Sea Jurassic Right podcast. This remains one 30 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:40.120 of my favorite factoid episodes ever. So there are some 31 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.239 facts in here that blew my mind. They still blow 32 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:44.959 my mind, and if you haven't listened to it, you 33 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.920 get kind of a look back at perhaps the fossil 34 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.680 record of Ologies. When I was first starting the podcast, 35 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:54.439 I was editing it all myself on garage band. But 36 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:56.879 I wanted to serve this one up to you because 37 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.680 right now is field season. There are paleontologists out there 38 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.359 in the world, what's up Montana digging up fossils? So 39 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.719 I wanted to redeliver this one in case you haven't 40 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.400 heard it or revisit it if you have. And this 41 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.319 is before I started calling myself I think your dad. 42 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:14.000 This is before I had a secret at the end 43 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:19.520 of the episodes. So enjoy this antique episode of ologies 44 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:22.919 while I go eat Chinese food with my parents and 45 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.680 hug them a lot. And I will be back next 46 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.199 Monday night with the Vexillolology all about flags. It is 47 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:31.520 a doozy of an episode and you guys are gonna 48 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:36.080 love it, so enjoy. Okay. Then now onto the old intro. 49 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:39.080 All right, Okay, here we go. So I'm gonna be 50 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:41.120 super super honest with you. And this pains me to 51 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:43.759 say because it's kind of a point of shame for 52 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:47.479 me as a like science enthusiast. But I don't really 53 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:50.199 give a fuck about dinosaurs, at least I didn't for 54 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:54.080 a long time. Flies, turtles, birds, ness, plants. I'm down 55 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.759 with all these because in my brain, I'm like, we 56 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:58.599 share the planet with them. I can look at them, 57 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:00.879 I can watch how they grow and look at what 58 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.080 they eat, how they get it on. Dinosaurs were always 59 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:05.879 the wing of the museum that I was like, Eh, 60 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:07.879 I don't know, I'm going to go to the food 61 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:11.000 court and eat a soft pretzel, but enjoy. So don't 62 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:14.319 judge me, because I know people love dinosaurs, people get crazy. 63 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:16.879 And I read Jurassic Park in high school. I loved it. 64 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:18.680 I was so into it that I was working at 65 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:21.759 a stationary shop and I couldn't put it down, so 66 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:26.439 much so that on my watch two ceramic bunnies were 67 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.159 stolen and I was almost fired. So whenever I think 68 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:31.719 about Michael Crichton, I say to him, hey, dude, nice work. 69 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.000 Your book was so good. It distracted me from someone 70 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:38.879 putting two football sized porcelain bunnies down their pants or 71 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.479 under their shirt or something. But what I loved about 72 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.240 Jurassic Park was the dinosaur behavior. But I wasn't really 73 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.560 that stoked about fossilized bones. I just didn't connect with it. 74 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.360 Until last year. I went to this party that was 75 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.240 kind of like a science salon, and this week's guest 76 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.560 stood up and he gave an informal talk about terrosaur wings, 77 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:02.039 and suddenly I thought, Okay, I think I get it, 78 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:05.840 because I'd never really thought about dinosaurs in motion like that. 79 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.639 Also side note for the truly self congratulatory. You know 80 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:12.719 that terosaurs the flying things that are like Terry on 81 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.279 Pewe's playhouse. Are not actually dinosaurs, they're flying reptiles. I 82 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:19.800 learned that this year too. But paleontology actually isn't even 83 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:24.040 the study of dinosaurs. It comes from paleo, which means 84 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.959 old and anto, meaning being, so it's the study of 85 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.480 just old beings. So this guest sparked my interest in 86 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.079 dinosaurs in a way that I'd never had before, because 87 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:37.399 the way he talks about them and how they move 88 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:41.600 really puts life to them. So he's a paleontologist and 89 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.600 a research associate in the Dinosaur Institute at the La 90 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.879 County Museum of National History. And he's also an assistant 91 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.720 professor of anatomy at USC's Kex School of Medicine. So 92 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.160 he has two jobs. One of them involves people who 93 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:58.439 are no longer alive. And I know it's irrational and 94 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:02.120 like not super death positive. I'm a little bit creeped 95 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:06.959 out by cadavers. I'm just I'm too sad about people dying. 96 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.199 I want to hug them. I also want to run 97 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.920 a far away trying to get over it. But our 98 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.519 guest is hella chill about it. He spends part of 99 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:16.680 the day cutting up cadavers. Part of it being a 100 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:43.759 million dologist. Lee's enjoy Michael habib Okay, so what is 101 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:44.199 his deal? 102 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:46.959 This is my deal? Well, you're right. Actually did cut 103 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:48.959 up a cadaver this morning, did you? Yes, it's actually 104 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:52.079 a few of them. So that's how my mornings often start. 105 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:55.399 We had one hundred and eighty eight medical students in 106 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.160 a room with thirty five did people. 107 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:57.879 Oh my god. 108 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:00.720 So you get a good couple off in the morning, 109 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:02.480 you sit down and you take a part of human beings. 110 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.399 So that that's my deal for about half the time, 111 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:06.600 and the other half of the time ago and play 112 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:07.240 of dinosaurs. 113 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.360 There is a wrong way to take a part of cadaver, 114 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:09.879 isn't there. 115 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.360 There are a lot of wrong ways. Actually there are 116 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.680 more wrong ways than correct ways, as it turns out. 117 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:20.759 So now you study movement of animals, and that's kind 118 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:24.240 of how you got into paleontology. What is is paleontology 119 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:27.600 only about fossils or is it just about living things 120 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:28.079 of that era? 121 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:33.000 So palaeontology it doesn't necessarily have to be about fossils, 122 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.199 but it historically it kind of was. It was considered 123 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:38.759 to be the study of fossils. Essentially, although it more 124 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.279 literally is just the study of life in the past, 125 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:44.800 and you mostly do that through fossils. I'm one of 126 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:46.480 those paleontologists who does play of fossils. 127 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:49.720 Before we go much further, let's define super quick what 128 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:53.199 a fossil actually is. I didn't know this until just now. 129 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.319 Fossils are any trace or remains, like a cast, or 130 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:01.040 an impression or a substitution with raw, even the thing 131 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.279 itself of something that was once alive. They have to 132 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:06.560 be at least ten thousand years old to be considered 133 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:08.519 a fossil. I don't know what they're called if they're 134 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:11.800 younger than that, to be honest, and the word fossil 135 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.600 comes from the Latin for obtained by digging, which is 136 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:19.160 that kind of adorable. I just picture people digging around 137 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:20.759 being like I obtained this by digging. 138 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:22.519 It's a fossil. 139 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:27.279 Speaking of old things, Michael didn't decide he wanted to 140 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:30.560 be a paleontologist until later in life. 141 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:32.920 I declared at age four that I wanted to be 142 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:33.720 a paleontologist. 143 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:36.920 Yeah, okay, just kidding. That's an early proclamation. 144 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.519 I you know, I like getting in early. That could 145 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:41.560 be time to procrastinate. 146 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:45.079 So you waited from the age of four until what 147 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.959 eighteen to enroll in college. That's a long that's a 148 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:48.759 lot of stalling. 149 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:51.439 It really was, It really was. There were all kinds 150 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:53.800 of things that I that I waste the time doing 151 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:56.120 in the interim, such as growth and development. 152 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:58.000 Very strange learning to use a fork. 153 00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:59.399 He isn't learning to use a fork? 154 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:02.480 Yeah, well what happened at four? Like when that declaration 155 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:04.720 went down? When you're like, mom and dad said, own, 156 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.480 I'm going to be a paleontologist? Like, where were you 157 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:07.160 in a museum? 158 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.040 Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I we were in the Smithsonian Museum 159 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:10.759 of National History. 160 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:12.319 Do you know what I told my parents I wanted 161 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:13.240 to be when I was three? 162 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:15.319 And you what do you want to be when you 163 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:20.279 get big? A porky big Allison. 164 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:23.040 War Workie Pig side note was a cartoon character who 165 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:26.480 wore an open blazer with no shirt. He lacked pants. 166 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:28.879 They're probably museums for that, you never know. 167 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:34.440 Yeah, it's just called restaurants. So what was your path 168 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.240 like when you actually got into the study of it. 169 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:40.639 How much education does it take to be a paleontologist? 170 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.519 Well, you know the answer is it varies because it 171 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:46.519 depends on really what you're doing in paleontology, what kind 172 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:47.559 of palletologists you want to be. 173 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:50.759 In Michael's case, from the time he set out to 174 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.279 be a paleontologist, he finished kindergarten, grammar school, in the 175 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.559 middle school, in high school, got an undergrad and master's 176 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.759 degree in biology, then another five years to get a 177 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:03.120 PhD and functional anatomy. 178 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.679 And then off to join the quote unquote real world, which, 179 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:09.360 if you're a paleontologist who takes apart dead people for 180 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:14.120 living at a medical school, is not an accurate term. 181 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:15.879 I don't know what the real world is. I've never 182 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:18.200 played in it. I've seen it through windows. It looks scary. 183 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:20.600 I've decided to avoid it for the time being. 184 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.039 So you've never walked into an office every day in 185 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:23.679 a tie. 186 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.399 I don't think I've ever walked into an office in 187 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:27.840 a tie. 188 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:31.039 Right, Yeah, I'm still stuck on the fact that, like, 189 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.440 you spent your morning taking up our dead people. Like 190 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.480 I know that we're here to talk about paleontology, but 191 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.480 from the anatomy perspective, like, when did you go down 192 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.360 the path of teaching anatomy? What is it like for 193 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:46.159 you in terms of like confronting mortality, because I mean, Paleo, 194 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:49.240 you're dealing with ancient things. So do you ever have 195 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:52.960 any weird existential crisis about like death and impermanence or anything. 196 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:56.080 I think I got most is out of the way. 197 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.840 When I was young, I was a precocious youngster, and 198 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.279 by that I meant I, you know, I questioned the uh. 199 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:04.720 I had a lot of questions about mortality at a 200 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:07.720 uncomfortable age, and my uncomfortable it was uncomfortable for my parents. 201 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:10.000 You know, if you if you want to be really 202 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:13.919 good at vertebrate anatomy, the model system is basically humans. 203 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.559 It's like you know more about your car if it sucks, 204 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:17.720 because you have to fix it more. 205 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:18.360 Do you know what I mean? 206 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:20.399 Like, we tinker in the human body so much to 207 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.120 fix it that it's like, well, yeah, had. 208 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.919 Those implants redone a few times? We see some really 209 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:27.080 interesting prostces actually in the lab. 210 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.120 But oh, do you I bet in l A, I 211 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:33.039 bet LA cadavers are like pretty tight. I bet I 212 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:36.799 bet they still look pretty sharp. I'm so sorry the 213 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:42.039 conversation accidentally went from automotive analogies back to the generous 214 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:46.519 and probably very attractive people who have donated their bodies 215 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:51.000 to science and the curious things Michael sees with body donors. 216 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:55.600 The type of sort of implant I saw most often, Yes, 217 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:56.559 penis and plants. 218 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.639 No where more in LA. 219 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.360 It's about even between Baltimore and LA. 220 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:08.200 You are kidding me. I honestly, I did not know 221 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:09.360 that that was a thing. 222 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:11.759 We had what we had what we had one donor 223 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.639 with the one the old models that was pumpable. WHOA, No, 224 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.039 usually they're just silicon implants. But any case, So, yeah, 225 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:21.639 so we've seen lots of We've seen a lot of 226 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:23.559 penis implants in the in the lab. 227 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:27.679 But this, this deep knowledge of anatomy informs your work 228 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:30.279 as a pelleontologist a lot. You tend to study a 229 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:34.279 lot of like wing movements of pterosaurs which are not dinosaurs. Technically, 230 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:35.360 that's true. 231 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.200 That's true. So yeah, so it's weird. So the guy 232 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.600 who who makes doctors in the morning studies terras wear 233 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:42.799 wings in the afternoon. Go figure. I've been called a 234 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:47.159 physicist in Denial by actually a Caltech physicists, which I 235 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:48.360 could sort of be a compliment. 236 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.279 Particularly in that crowd. That's some complimentary shade. 237 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.559 Yeah, exactly exactly. I'll take that particularly interested in how 238 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.120 that gives you motion, how animals move around by taking 239 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:00.559 his wood is really a pretty limitted a number of 240 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.759 different kinds of materials to work with and make them 241 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:07.759 do amazing things. We have enough trouble making high performance aircraft, 242 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.720 good sale planes and everything that can go hundreds of miles, 243 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:15.879 you know, with fiberglass and carbon fiber and all kinds 244 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:19.000 of metals at our disposal, and animals only have a 245 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:24.200 handful of materials really to work with. It's flawful, I guess, yeah, 246 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.080 I mean you got. I mean for hard tissues, you 247 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:31.679 basically got your bone, cartilage is reasonably can be reasonably stiff, enamel, 248 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:33.679 you know, a handful of other things, and a bunch 249 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:35.600 of soft stuff that's based in sea of water, and 250 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.840 it gives you some really really high performance stuff. I 251 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:39.000 mean some of animals I work on this on these 252 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:41.039 terrace wores were you know, had wing spans ten and 253 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.320 a half meters, it's about thirty five feet winked up 254 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.279 the wing thirty five feet. Yeah, these things could kick 255 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.240 ass and take names. These are these are powerful flying, 256 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:52.519 ground launching badasses, and they're just doing it all with 257 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.559 the basics of vertebrated anatomy. 258 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.480 Do you have to study aeronautics as well as physiology 259 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.519 to try to determine how that would give a terrost 260 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:02.480 or the ability to fly? 261 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:06.519 So I do have a joint background in fluid dynamics. 262 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.200 Which is the study of how fluids move. Just five 263 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.039 minutes ago I learned that fluids are not just liquids. 264 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.440 Fluids are anything that has no fixed shape and yields 265 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:19.279 to external pressure, which totally changes the meaning of bodily 266 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:21.440 fluids for me. They could be a liquid or a gas. 267 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:25.080 Let's change the subject. Do paleontologists love puzzles? As someone 268 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.320 who has to put bone fragments back together? Do you 269 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.960 like puzzles or do you hate them? 270 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:33.000 I love puzzles. A lot of balletoges love puzzles. Okay, 271 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:35.279 I'm not sure they all do. I think for some 272 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:38.159 palotogess it probably feel like taking your work home with you. Right, Yeah, 273 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.279 you get home and I don't have any kids, but 274 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.399 I can imagine something that. Do you know, then they 275 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:43.960 can come home their kids like, hey, you want to 276 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:44.720 build this puzzle with me? 277 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.840 Like, oh god, what amount of time do you spend 278 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.399 in the field as a paleontologist, and how much of 279 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.720 that is back in a lab or looking at spreadsheets 280 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.440 or measuring fossil densities and stuff. 281 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.080 So in terms of the amount of time, like how 282 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.600 much of the year in the field, it's a good 283 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.960 chunk of the summer, that's uh, that's usually when I 284 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.519 do all my field work. So basically July and August 285 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:08.440 a good bit of it I'll be in the field, 286 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:09.840 mostly in New Mexico. 287 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:11.559 Was that a titanosaur? 288 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:13.399 That's the Titanosaur project? Yeah? 289 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.320 Can you can you reveal what you're working on with that? 290 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.039 Sure? Sure, obviously you actually basically whatever you find. It's 291 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:21.320 not like you went out there and we're gonna find it. 292 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:23.559 Actually we kind of went out there going, I really 293 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.120 kind of hope you don't find a titanosaur because really, well, 294 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.240 I mean not not. We were being BLib about it, 295 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:30.120 which is what makes it funny, but like there was 296 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:31.200 a part of us it was like, I really hope 297 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.200 we won't find things super huge because then we feel 298 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.039 compelled to excavate it and it's gon take forever. And 299 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.960 of course what we found was two individuals of the 300 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.279 group that includes the largest land animals of all time. 301 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:42.840 Oh my god. 302 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:45.000 In fact, one of our one of our specimens may 303 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:49.799 be the largest dinosaur from North America. That's huge. Literally, yeah. 304 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:51.320 So it's just I mean these you know, these are 305 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.240 animals that mid size titanosaur is like thirty tons plush, 306 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.360 and a big one is like sixty tons plus. How 307 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:01.000 many feet the big guys you're looking at one hundred 308 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:02.480 feet ish? Wow? 309 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.000 How many times bigger than an elephant? Are these guys big? 310 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.639 A big bull African elephant, which would be the largest 311 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.279 living land animal. I think the record is like six 312 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:16.919 point two tons or something that really averages more like 313 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:21.919 five and change. Okay, so if a big titanosaur is 314 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.440 regularly hitting sixty that's twelve times. 315 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:30.600 So these titanosaurs are like if twelve elephants stacked under 316 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.440 one giant overcoat and pretended to be a person. 317 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:35.399 That's so huge. 318 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.000 This is so exciting. I'm sweating. This is so Wait. 319 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.200 What happened when you were in the field and someone's like, oh, 320 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.399 we got a bone over here, Like what what is 321 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:45.919 that moment? 322 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.759 Like, Well, it depends on what the bone is. In 323 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.039 the case of the Titanosaur project. You know, you see 324 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:53.759 some bones into the hill and I first law was, Oh, 325 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.960 that looks really exciting. We see some interesting morphology and 326 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.919 we can tell it it's what we call pneumatizes. We 327 00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:59.799 could tell it had was the animal had all these 328 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:02.320 air sacks in it, and we're thinking, oh, wow, that's cool. 329 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.039 That could be like a big predatory dinosaur because they 330 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:05.919 have as they had a lire sex in their bones too. 331 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:07.720 We started excitating around it and we're like, this doesn't 332 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.519 really look like it would fit on what could this be? 333 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:13.039 You think it's because this is a pretty big element 334 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.519 as you're going to the hill and you're thinking that 335 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:16.960 it's like a relatively big part of a small animal, 336 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.080 and then at some point your brain switches and you 337 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.000 realize you're doing the small part of an enormous animal. 338 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:22.720 Oh my god. 339 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:24.519 And there was that moment where the actually was a 340 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:28.200 particular rod of bone that we started to see as 341 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:29.679 we started to work around it with our tools, that 342 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.720 we realized that this was a vertebra from the neck, 343 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:33.360 a neck bone. 344 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.000 I love this part so much. 345 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.840 I literally just loo kind of went ah shit. And 346 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:44.559 of course the one of the poor volunteers. There was like, what, 347 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.720 what did I break something? I'm like, no, no, this 348 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:49.240 just went from this went from a one season project 349 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.720 to an eight season project. And they're like why, I'm like, well, 350 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:54.879 if this is articulated. 351 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:58.679 In paleontology terms, articulated means found all in the same place, 352 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:01.759 just a bunch of bones kicking it together in order 353 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:03.440 having a bone party under some. 354 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.400 Dirt, if there's more of it, I mean, I was 355 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.039 at this point, I'm thinking, Okay, well, maybe it'll just 356 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.079 be the one one element. It wasn't, of course, Oh 357 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.799 my god. Then you know we've got we've got a 358 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.880 you know, forty ton plus animal on the hillside. And 359 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:16.279 you start and then you start look at the hillside. 360 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:17.559 You go, actually, I think it might kind of just 361 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:18.480 be the hillside. 362 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.759 Oh my god, it's just a mountain, Like. 363 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.279 It's just kind of has this kind of sediment loosely 364 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:28.400 sitting on top of a dinosaur. Who gets to name it, well, 365 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:33.319 that depends. So we don't know whether or not we 366 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.640 will be naming it because we don't know if it's 367 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.440 a new species yet or not. There is a type 368 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:42.440 of titanosaur from North America that is named just one, 369 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:43.960 which is interesting because the rest of the world there's 370 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.279 a ton of these things, like like one of the 371 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:48.240 hot groups of dinosaurs to work on these days. Like 372 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:50.319 we went from not knowing much about them twenty years 373 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.359 ago the suddenly this has been this explosion. 374 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.640 So saur pods are those really long necked, kind of 375 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:01.039 round bellied plant munched cuties. Apparently twenty years ago we 376 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:03.799 didn't know much about them because our equipment for scanning 377 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.400 and for transport sucked. 378 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.200 There's better equipment and tech these days to work with 379 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:12.960 things this big. You know, half a century agos one 380 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.920 finds a titanis for coming out of the hillside. It's like, 381 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:17.559 well that's pretty yeah, moving on, you. 382 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.599 Know, do we just have better vehicles? 383 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:24.160 Now we got good vehicles. It's more commonplace to be 384 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.759 able to use a helicopter. I mean, obviously half a 385 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.920 century go people could use helicopter, but it was just 386 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.880 they were not something that was regularly available to the 387 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:35.720 budget kind of budgets that we work at. The lift 388 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:36.720 heavy jackets. 389 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.200 Yes, when he says heavy jackets, he does not mean 390 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.799 woolen coats. A jacket is that big plaster lump they 391 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.359 smooth around excavated fossils to protect it and support it 392 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:48.720 when they're storing it or delivering it. Frankly, it looks 393 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.599 like a very fun rainy day craft project. And if 394 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.559 you google dinosaur jackets, I dare you, I dare you 395 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:57.799 not to go down a rabbit hole looking at children's 396 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.000 hooties and wondering if you can fit into the largest 397 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:02.839 is offered. Even if you don't get to name the species, 398 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.160 you get to actually be like this one's Gary or whatever. 399 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.799 Oh sure, so yes, so you can get nicknames. So yeah, 400 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:09.720 so they're naming process. So if this thing's up being 401 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.480