WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.359 In the name of good versus evil. There are countless 2 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:13.919 cases out there that highlight what humans are truly capable of. 3 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.160 One such case is our subject today. The Pettit family 4 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:22.480 were an honest, hard working family, but would eventually fall 5 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:28.199 victim to two individuals who were born into cruel circumstances. Together, 6 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:31.679 these two decided they were going to pray on the 7 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:36.479 more fortunate than them, and slowly their desire for causing 8 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:41.320 harm became more satiable, until one horrible event left one 9 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:44.920 member of the Pettit family wishing they had done more 10 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.439 to stop the violence as they grieved over the death 11 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:53.200 of all their loved ones. This is the brutal and 12 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:57.320 infamous case known as the Shechesher Murders. 13 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.880 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingrim. 14 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:05.560 A true crime podcast. 15 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:14.200 Following material more mature audience listener. 16 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:36.359 So, I just spilled coffee all over my lap and 17 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:39.239 I just did it again. Okay, this this is not 18 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:41.680 something to pour from very I've done it before on 19 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:42.120 the show. 20 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:46.359 Yeah. Well, I don't know. I love you to just 21 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:47.879 like wipe it on your pants. 22 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.280 Well, there, there's already coffee on them, and they're just 23 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.480 like ratty jeans. It's just going to add to the 24 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.680 the hipster used feel of them, you know what I mean? Yes, 25 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:57.879 they're worth more money. 26 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.519 Now instead of an opening beer where poor coffee? 27 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:01.319 Hey are we are? 28 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:02.599 Well? 29 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:04.840 I mean, this case has been I just dropped my 30 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.519 towent them. This case has been something that's taking me 31 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:11.199 a long time to research. It's there's a lot to it. 32 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:14.560 So this is going to be a two parter because 33 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.520 of that. I was hoping to cram it all into 34 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.000 one episode last night and finish it off, but I'm 35 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:21.199 just I can't do it. I can't keep it into 36 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:21.919 one episode. 37 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.599 So well, yeah, sometimes it's it doesn't do the case 38 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:26.240 justice either, exactly. 39 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:28.199 That's exactly why I'm splitting it up, because if I 40 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.719 were to just put it into one I would be 41 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:31.520 missing so much. 42 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.919 So yeah, yeah, I'm listening to a case right now 43 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:38.879 that's like literally thirteen parts. 44 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:40.800 Damn, who's covering that? 45 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:41.520 Do you know? 46 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:42.960 Do you can you remember? 47 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:46.879 Oh? Man, it's I think it's like thirteen hours or 48 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:49.159 I don't even know what the heck. I think it's 49 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:50.639 global I'm not sure. 50 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:52.479 Okay, So it's more like a DoD docu series. 51 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:54.520 Yeah, kind of, but because I'm going to be covering 52 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.960 this podcast. But I'm like, I'm like, I'm but just 53 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.719 doing this podcast in one episode? So am I doing 54 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:03.919 an injustice? But like, there's just there's just so much 55 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:07.400 more they're diving into, you know that we normally wouldn't 56 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:08.240 so well. 57 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.639 I mean, there you can do those deep dives, but 58 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:14.400 a lot of those the time, you are covering a 59 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:18.360 lot of minute information that's not necessary or repetitive information. 60 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:22.400 Yeah. I've been noticing too. They're mentioning things a few 61 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.360 times and I'm like, I've heard SORR ready. 62 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:30.439 So yeah, but this one, there's just a long linear 63 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:33.560 story that goes along with it. So we're going to 64 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.960 start off. We won't talk a whole lot on this 65 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.319 beginning intro, we'll just get right into this episode, but 66 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:39.520 I will tell you that we are going to be 67 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:42.000 kind of starting off introducing to the family and then 68 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:44.400 introducing the perpetrators and kind of building up to what 69 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:48.120 led to the event itself. And I do think a 70 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.400 lot of that is really important to understand what happened 71 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.560 and why it happened in this case, and it's really 72 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:57.599 unfortunate that it played out the way that it did. 73 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:01.280 But yeah, okay, I. 74 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:03.719 Know this was one that's been on my radar for 75 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:05.800 a while. This is a more popular case. A lot 76 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:07.560 of you out there probably already know of this one. 77 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.879 But yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do this. You ready, Yeah, yeah, 78 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:14.280 you've heard of this one, right, the Sheesher Family Murders. 79 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.360 I have, But I don't think I've ever like looked 80 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.839 into it or listened to a podcast or anything on it, 81 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:23.399 So gotcha. I mean, probably mostly new for me too. 82 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:26.360 Well, I do know, like originally why it caught my 83 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.000 attention was the name the Schescher Murders, Sheesher Family murders, 84 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:32.480 because the Cheshier cat right from Alice Wonderland. Yeah, it 85 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.040 has nothing to do with Alice Wonderland or the Sheesher Cat. 86 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.959 It just happens to take place in some city or 87 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.279 town called Cheshire. 88 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:40.319 Okay. 89 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.480 So yeah, there's no affiliation, just heads up with that. 90 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:48.120 There's no double entendra planned words or anything, just simply 91 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:49.439 that's the town. 92 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:50.120 Okay. 93 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.600 All right, So let's dive into this. The Pettitt family 94 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.720 is where we're gonna start. So the Pettitt family was 95 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:58.720 a close knit family of four made up of the father, 96 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:03.160 doctor William Pettitt, his wife, the mother, Jennifer Hawke Pettit, 97 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:07.879 and their two daughters, Hayley and mike Ella. Now there 98 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:10.680 were they were a well respected family. They were honest, 99 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.720 loving family who lived in a modest, modest life. Right, 100 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.680 And of course where do you think they lived in Cheshire? 101 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:21.959 How do you say it's Chesherchescher? 102 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:27.639 Well, I've heard too pronouncements pronunciations for Cheshire or Shechesherer. 103 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.600 So either way, I'll probably be flip flopping throughout this 104 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.000 because yeah, I think Cheshier is going to be how 105 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.319 I'll say it, but I might, I might stray a 106 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:38.560 little bit, but yeah, it's it's Chesher, New Haven County 107 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:43.160 and Connecticut, USA. Now, by all accounts, the Petits were 108 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.839 fairly normal, blending into their middle middle kind of class neighborhood. 109 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.959 You know, a simple two story home at three hundred 110 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:54.160 Sagham Mill Drive. Now, I do want to highlight the 111 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:56.160 fact that I did say it's a middle class neighborhood. 112 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.279 It's a simple two story home, but it's probably a 113 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:04.480 little bit nicer than you're imagining. Think like you know, 114 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:08.120 the house from from Home alone, kind of like that. 115 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:09.879 But a little bit smaller. So it's like, that's that's 116 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.240 a fucking nice house. Yeah, quite nice, modest home. But 117 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.199 I mean being that, for example, the father was a doctor. 118 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.279 They definitely did have some extra income, but they they 119 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.639 lived modest for for their their their life that they 120 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:24.079 did lead. 121 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:26.000 So there's nothing wrong with that. 122 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:27.560 I feel like, no, no, not at all. 123 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:29.959 Sometimes people think they need this mansion of a house 124 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.560 to look like they're successful. 125 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:35.279 No, they definitely had a nice house. They could have 126 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.879 had nicer for sure. Yeah, but they definitely they had 127 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:39.879 a nice house, but it was it was fairly modest 128 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.160 for them. It's totally fine, right, Yeah, And I am 129 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:46.680 highlighting this because it is actually an important part of 130 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:52.040 this story. Okay, So now, doctor William Pettitt, who was 131 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:55.959 fifty years old, was an endocrinologist, which means that he 132 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.759 specialized in diabetes and metabolic disorders. So a lot of 133 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.439 times she's helping diagnose and treat people with those sort 134 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:08.120 of diseases. He was also a very well regarded individual 135 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:10.560 in his field and was known for his compassionate care 136 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.000 towards his patient He really took care when dealing with 137 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.759 them outside of work. Though he was also a very 138 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.279 dedicated husband and father who deeply involved himself in his 139 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:24.639 daughter's lives and their activities. His wife, Jennifer Hawk Pettitt, 140 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:26.920 who was forty eight years old, was a nurse and 141 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.480 a co director of the health Center at the Cheshire Academy, 142 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.399 which is a private boarding school. Now, she was very 143 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:35.959 kind and deeply get dedicated to her family as well 144 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.439 and the community, actively participating in local charitable organizations and 145 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:45.240 community events, even despite living with the diagnosis of MS 146 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:49.399 or multiple sclerosis. So that is something that many people 147 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:52.120 do suffer with and it is a deteriorate of type disease. 148 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.360 So she was dealing with that and she's still making 149 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:57.399 sure that she's out there not only with the family 150 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:00.720 but in the community doing which you can really impressive. 151 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:01.279 Good for her. 152 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:04.759 Now, their oldest daughter, Haley Pettitt, was seventeen years old 153 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.839 and she was an intelligent and very ambitious young woman. 154 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:10.879 She was a top student at Miss Porter School, a 155 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:17.399 prestigious girls prep school where she excelled academically and athletically alike. Now, 156 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:21.319 though she was preparing to attend the private Ivy League 157 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:25.000 Research University of Dartmouth in Hanover, New Hampshire, during her 158 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.000 upcoming fall semester, so she was just graduating from that 159 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:30.959 prep school and was soon going to be attending Dartmouth. 160 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.759 Hailey was passionate about helping others and actively involved in 161 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:41.440 fundraising for multiple sclerosis research. As we obviously know, it's 162 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.120 something that's near and dear to her family. 163 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:45.200 Right, this family seems terrific. 164 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.399 They seem like they are like Hollywood picture perfect. 165 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:51.759 Yeah, so, like I'm already kind of obsessed with them. 166 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:54.840 Yeah. Now, as such, it isn't surprising to learn that 167 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:57.919 she was planning to follow interference footsteps in the medical 168 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.039 field as well. Now, I'm not too sure which career 169 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.320 she planned on going. Whether it was nursing, whether it 170 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.480 was doctor, whether it was research, I don't know, but 171 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:10.919 she was planning to target that medical field one way, 172 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:15.159 shape or form. Now, Mikela Pettitt, who was eleven years old, 173 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.039 the youngest daughter, who was affectionately known as KK or 174 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:21.679 KK Rosebud by her family. I don't know what the 175 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.039 nickname where it comes from. It seems to be a 176 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.919 very private kind of nickname. In any article where it 177 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.159 was referenced, it was simply just referencing her as such, 178 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:32.600 and there was no ever explanation given. 179 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:39.080 Well, it's freaking adorable, I know, kk rosebud oh yeah. 180 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.639 So yeah. She was a bright and vibrant young girl. 181 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.559 She attended the Chase Coligate School, where she was known 182 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:48.120 for her kindness and enthusiasm for learning. Now, Mikela also 183 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:50.600 had a budding passion for cooking, enjoying time in the 184 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.039 kitchen with her mother and also tending the garden that 185 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.720 they had where she was able to grow fresh ingredients 186 00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:58.799 to actually you know, go from like farm to table 187 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:00.840 sort of thing, learn the whole process. 188 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.320 So at eleven, that's really awesome. 189 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.879 At eleven, I have a feeling that she was going 190 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:10.399 to be diving into a cooking field in her future 191 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:14.799 for sure. Now together, the family shared a very close bond, 192 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.799 as their home in Sheeshire, Connecticut was a place of warmth, 193 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.279 love and laughter. However, the events that would soon unfold 194 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.080 within the happy home that the Petits had built would 195 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:30.480 soon have locals in utter disbelief and calling the event 196 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:36.039 the Sheesher nine eleven. Now, I do want to highlight this, 197 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:38.399 though their intent is not to compare the incident with 198 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:41.080 nine to eleven or take awareness away from those atrocities 199 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:43.279 that took place in New York City that day. Their 200 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:45.960 intent is simply to put words into just how shocking 201 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.440 it was for them to feel this happened so close 202 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:51.360 to home in Cheshire. For them, it felt like nine 203 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:55.440 to eleven had just happened. Okay, But just before we 204 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:59.399 get into that horrific crime, the one that occurred on 205 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.360 July twenty third, two thousand and seven, we need to 206 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.519 first take a look at the individuals who go on 207 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:08.320 to commit the brutal axe. So he just introduced to 208 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:10.720 the Pettitt family. Now we're going to introduce you to 209 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:17.519 Joshua Andrew Comitzcavari. Now, Joshua was born on August tenth, 210 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:21.039 nineteen eighty in Cheshire, Connecticut, and he entered the world 211 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.799 to a young mother and a father who was barely 212 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:25.840 out of his teens, and I believe the mother was 213 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:29.399 only sixteen years old herself. As such, he was a 214 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.240 put up for adoption and was adopted at about two 215 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:36.519 weeks old by Benedict and June Commits Kavari, which is 216 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:39.639 where he would eventually get his last name. Now, the 217 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:44.720 former being the son of a renowned a theatrical a theatrical. 218 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.279 I can't say the word theater director, there we go. 219 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.080 Theatrical is a word trying to say. 220 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:50.519 I thought that was what it was. 221 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:57.799 But theatrical director Theodore Commitscavari and dancer Ernest Stotle. Now, 222 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:01.480 Joshua's early life was fraught with difficulties. In the early 223 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:05.559 nineteen nineties, his sister actually accused him of sexual assault, 224 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:10.159 an allegation that led to his conviction. Now, during his 225 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.279 trial in the penalty phase, his father actually admitted that 226 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.919 the accusations were more than likely true. 227 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:17.360 Oh No. 228 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.559 Academically and socially, Joshua struggled significantly as he grew older. 229 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.559 His adoptive parents, who held strong religious belief often sought 230 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:31.519 thought sorry, sought solutions. That's almost a tongue twister. There. 231 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:36.720 Often sought solutions through their faith rather than through physiological 232 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:42.759 counseling or medication, sorry, psychological counseling, which they basically flat 233 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:48.360 out distrusted. So their trust relied heavily on spiritual with 234 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:52.360 their religion rather than actually seeking a doctor. And though 235 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:55.360 I'm not going to say, you know, one is better 236 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:57.480 than the other, or one is going to work and 237 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.480 one isn't going to I think certainly one needs to 238 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.759 explore both paths. If you do believe in one, then 239 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.679 I think you need to make sure that you should 240 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:08.480 maybe you know, at times look at the other as well. Yeah, 241 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:12.240 and I think Joshua definitely needed the latter in his life. 242 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:14.759 Yeah, it sounds that way for sure. Now. 243 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.120 Joshua's criminal activities began at the young age of fourteen, 244 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.559 when he committed his first burglary. Now by two thousand 245 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.000 and two, he had been arrested for a total of 246 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:30.480 eighteen home invasions. Day his defense attorney noted that Joshua 247 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:37.120 could recall every single detail of his crimes with remarkable precision. Wow, 248 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.159 I can't remember. I think it's called a nidetic memory. 249 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.399 I don't know if he's actually been like diagnosed with it. 250 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.399 I don't know if it diagnoses the right word, But 251 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:49.679 I don't know if he has actually been said to 252 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:52.559 specifically have it. But he's definitely showing signs of it 253 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.240 because he was able to identify the exact amounts of 254 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:00.279 money he would steal in the exact denominations from the 255 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.200 specific houses, on the specific dates, even the locations in 256 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:06.879 the homes where he found it. He found it in 257 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:08.639 a wallet. He was able to tell you the type 258 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.080 of genes the wallet was in. With the wallet was 259 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:16.120 like every fucking detail. He was able to shit relive 260 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:17.000 those things. 261 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.279 I can't remember shit, So that's like. 262 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:26.039 I know, wow, yeah, so it's incredible here an incredible mind. 263 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.320 Yeah, but imagine how much is space that's taking up too? 264 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.279 And there you know, Oh that's overwhelming too. 265 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.960 With an incredible mind, generally, you also encounter incredible troubles 266 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.879 and I think that's what Joshua was experiencing. He had 267 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:43.080 a lot of troubled things going on in his head 268 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.519 along with these gifts or curses. I'm sure you could 269 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:47.440 attribute them either way. 270 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.279 Well, yeah, because that just made me think too, Like 271 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.799 lots of times people who say are in school or 272 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.600 whatever and they're not being challenged, they like end up 273 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:58.480 getting in trouble or something, right, because like, with a 274 00:14:58.519 --> 00:14:59.960 mind like that, I think you have to be chat 275 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.519 you have to challenge, have some sort of challenge that 276 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:07.480 will like I'm describing this terribly, but you know. 277 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.440 You occupy it yea, yeah, yeah. 278 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.639 They keep your mind occupied. 279 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:12.600 Yeah, it's funny because we're watching I don't know if 280 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:14.519 anyone else there has actually seen this series of Yeah. 281 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:16.440 Shameless, literally thinking of that one too. 282 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.200 So there's a character called Lip where in high school 283 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.159 he just didn't even have to try. So he was 284 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.200 getting into so much trouble because he didn't have to 285 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.440 try it all. He didn't wasn't challenged, and then they're 286 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:29.720 they're a bit of an impoverished family. So he managed 287 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:32.559 to get a full ride scholarship through college, and he 288 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.799 goes to college and all of a sudden, he's not 289 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:37.840 smart anymore. 290 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:40.000 Well, yeah, he has to put some effort in, for sure. 291 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:41.799 Yeah, And as soon as he has to try and 292 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.159 apply himself, he changes. It's like he's not like this 293 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.759 bad kid roaming the streets getting into shit anymore. I mean, 294 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:50.320 of course he's doing the odds ends here, but it's 295 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.399 the same sort of story. When you don't apply yourself, 296 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.919 you get bored and you look to do something entertain 297 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.519 yourself or challenge yourself. And I think that's a big 298 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:05.399 thing for Joshua is maybe not he wasn't being challenged, 299 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.080 but there was things going on in his head that 300 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:11.879 he was trying to at least occupy for sure. Now, 301 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.840 Joshua did admit to his attorney after robbing these houses 302 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.440 that he would often watch the occupants as they slept 303 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:22.960 as well, finding satisfaction in violating their sense of security. 304 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:30.080 That which, I think, to me, takes us right back 305 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.080 to what we were talking about. I think he's occupying 306 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:36.559 his mind with like, I can do these things and 307 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.159 there's nothing you can do about it. And also the 308 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.559 ability to just watch someone's sleep and the calmness that 309 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.919 might have come over is so full mind with all 310 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.679 these details and things in his head. 311 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.320 I guess. But God, that's just. 312 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:53.559 It's disturbing as fuck. But I think for him it 313 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:54.679 was basically zen. 314 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.879 Yeah, it makes sense actually now. 315 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:00.440 Sometimes he would actually break in, specifically, not even to 316 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.679 steal anything, as simply to experience this thrill of invading 317 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:08.680 someone's home. He would often even rearrange items in unsettling ways, 318 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:09.839 you know, put something here. 319 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.279 And over there, and to play with their mind, just to. 320 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.839 Play with their minds when they woke up in the 321 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.400 morning and say, I don't know, plant is from their 322 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.079 living room is now in the middle of their dining 323 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:20.839 room table. I don't know if he did that. That's 324 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.119 just a sporadic yeah thing I threw out there. But 325 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.720 as an example, what the fuck would be someone's first 326 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:28.559 hot when they woke up in. 327 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.759 The morning, right, no kidding, Yeah, it would. It would 328 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:34.519 like that would just fuck with you for weeks, probably, 329 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.200 oh probably, fund if you're like sleepwalking or what's going 330 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:39.119 on for life? 331 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.359 I would be on my deathbed remember that fucking time 332 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.640 that plant just appeared in the middle of the table. 333 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:45.880 Oh my gosh, that would drive me. It would drive 334 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:46.400 the nuts. 335 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:49.799 I would not I would one hundred percent go insane. Yeah. 336 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.839 So yeah, that's kind of what Joshua was doing. And 337 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:55.759 in December of two thousand and two, he was finally 338 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:58.920 convicted on twelve counts of burglary and was sentenced to 339 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.359 nine years in prison. Judge James bent Of again, I'm 340 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.160 pretty sure I got the name as close I'm gonna 341 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.480 get it, but I'm gonna try it again. Bent Vigana 342 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.279 Vegna bent Of Vegna, there we go described him during 343 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:16.319 the sentencing as calculated, cold blooded predator. Oh wow, yes, 344 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:19.000 and I do think that is a very good description, 345 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:20.759 especially the calculated part. 346 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.400 Yeah. Okay, but so at this like, at this point 347 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.960 he has what he's being charged with, his break and enters. Well, 348 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.799 he did have the oh, for his sister. 349 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.559 Right, yeah, yeah, but now it's just the the twelve 350 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.680 counts of burglary, okay, yeah, And he was sentenced to 351 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:40.279 nine years in prison, but it would be five years 352 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.519 later in two thousand and seven when Joshua was paroled 353 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.960 and after his release, he stayed in the Suliman Halfway 354 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.559 House and it would be there that he would eventually 355 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.640 meet an individual by the name of Hayes. 356 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.839 Gosh, five years does not seem like enough time to 357 00:18:57.039 --> 00:18:58.319 change your ways, eh. 358 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:05.920 I don't know. I mean, if for burglary, hey maybe maybe, 359 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:07.799 I guess, for if you're doing something a little bit 360 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.680 like more like murder, yeah, fuck no. So I don't know. 361 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:16.079 I don't know if I really know enough to make 362 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:18.359 a comment on that, because I think I think someone 363 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:20.920 could actually rebilitate themselves. But I think it's going to 364 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:22.119 be circumstantial per. 365 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.279 Poah, that's true. But I mean, gosh, from nine to 366 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.599 five years, it's interesting. 367 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:32.720 Well regardless, though, Hayes was an individual who was born 368 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.519 by the name of Stephen Joseph Hayes, but they Hayes, 369 00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:37.720 but they now go by the name of Linda Hayes. 370 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:39.319 And for the purpose of the story, I will be 371 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.440 referring to them by their last name, Hayes, And for 372 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.400 the record, I found conflicting reports on their now chosen 373 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:51.000 identifying gender and could not find solid confirmation on what 374 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.680 their gender identification is now, So I'm going to be 375 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.160 doing my best to use they them and just refer 376 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:59.759 to them as their last name. So Hayes's early life 377 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.440 was was marred by significant dysfunction and abuse. Raised in 378 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:08.240 a household where physical and sexual abuse were unfortunately relatively common, 379 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.000 Hayes struggled from a young age. They first faced legal 380 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.359 trouble as an adult in nineteen eighty at the age 381 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.799 of sixteen, and we're paroled in eighteen sorry, nineteen eighty two, 382 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.440 and Hayes violated that parole conditions within seven weeks, so 383 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.200 it didn't take long. And over the years, Hayes began 384 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.319 dealing in substance abuse as well, and was arrested nearly 385 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.119 a total of thirty times, spending majority of this period 386 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:38.960 behind bars. Holy shit, and much like Joshua, Hayes had 387 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:43.000 a lust for theft, often done in order to help 388 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:46.200 support their life of drug use, and in two thousand 389 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.799 and four, Hayes was arrested for smashing a car window 390 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.480 with a rock and stealing a woman's purse from inside 391 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.400 the vehicle. By two thousand and six, Hayes found themselves 392 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:58.519 on parole and was sent to the Silamon Halfway House, 393 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:00.839 which is where they crossed paths with. 394 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:05.039 Joshua gosh At thirty times, you feel like there's just 395 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.839 got to be something that kind of keeps you in 396 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:09.799 jail a little bit longer to kind of get your 397 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:13.279 shit together, because that is just such a waste of 398 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:14.680 resources to do. Hey. 399 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:17.640 Well, and there's a difference between committing a crime thirty 400 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:22.079 times and being arrested thirty times, because don't get me wrong, 401 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.640