WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.520 All right, ten days away from Utah football at the 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:08.919 Rose Bowl against UCLA b Yu welcomes in Portland State. Well, Utah, stay, 3 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.359 welcomes in Utah. It is week zero, though, so we 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:16.280 have college football this weekend. Our next guest good enough 5 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:19.399 to join us after his personal assistant ran interference earlier, 6 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:22.719 the Great Matt Brown from Extra Points Matt, Happy Wednesday. 7 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:23.239 How are we doing? 8 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.079 Hey, I'm doing great. 9 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:29.239 I appreciate nobody taking my eleven year old picking up 10 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:33.600 the phone and hanging up personally just to glad that 11 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:35.079 she didn't accellently get put on the air. 12 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:39.520 Well, actually, Matt, in that vein, I told Porter, I 13 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:40.920 was going to ask you if I could interview this 14 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.359 young lady because at times she does do a little 15 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:47.399 Twitter takeover and she seems like a very gregarious, funny 16 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:48.679 young lady. 17 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:49.560 Is that fair to say? 18 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:53.799 I would say that she is better at social media 19 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.240 than I am. I think every single time she ends 20 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.359 up on my computer when I'm off doing something else, 21 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:00.640 people are like, why are we paying to read Matt? 22 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:03.719 Let's go, let's go hear the eleven year old review 23 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:06.840 of K Pop Demon Hunters, and not about who's going 24 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:09.719 to join the a sun next week, Like, sure, next time, 25 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:11.359 we'll just get for the phone. I'll pay you a buck. 26 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:13.319 Love it, Love it well. 27 00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:14.840 I wanted to have you on for a number of 28 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:17.079 different reasons, but I saw a tweet of yours that 29 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.159 caught my attention, got a lot of people's attention that 30 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:23.959 I just find to be interesting and not talked about 31 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:24.879 a whole lot. 32 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:26.959 And look, I say this often. 33 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:31.439 You know, I've been in media for about twenty years now, 34 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:34.560 but I've spent my entire career in the realm of sports, 35 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:39.120 whether it was marketing, pr venue management. And you're really 36 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:42.319 sold kind of a bill of goods that oftentimes turns 37 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:44.560 out to be completely not the thing you thought it 38 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:46.280 was going to be. You are asked to work a 39 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:48.879 ton of late nights, you're asked to work a ton 40 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.359 of hours, and honestly, if you're lucky enough to work 41 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.480 your way up to a high position, then you're. 42 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:56.480 Gonna make a little bit of money. 43 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.079 But up until then, and most people never make it 44 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:01.079 that far, you just don't get paid very well. 45 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:03.480 It's not near as glamorous as of. 46 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.959 What most people believe because we watch the athletes, and 47 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.560 now college athletes are being paid coaches are being paid 48 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:09.319 millions of dollars. 49 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:10.840 Athletic directors are getting rich. 50 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:14.759 But what are you hearing about the other people in 51 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:17.960 athletic departments that are now asked to even carry a 52 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.680 heavier load without really getting an additional compensation. 53 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:25.000 There's going to be a bigger story about this next week, 54 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.919 and I think you're right to draw comparisons to the 55 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:33.800 media industry, right Like I tell people, I love my job, 56 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.599 I love running extra points. This isn't the best job 57 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:39.120 that I've had so far, and I'm really fortunate that 58 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:43.199 I'm I think, one of the few media people that 59 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.400 has a fair amount of autonomy over what I get 60 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:47.639 to do every day, and it makes a decent living. 61 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:51.360 But it's wild to think that I'm probably like the 62 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:56.080 top five percent, top ten percent of earners because the 63 00:02:56.199 --> 00:03:00.240 comp is so terrible. There's so few jobs left in 64 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:02.319 this world, even for people who are doing stuff far 65 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.520 more important, I think than what I do. And this 66 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.919 is very much what I hear a lot from people 67 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.400 that work in college sports, where it was I would 68 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:18.919 say bad before COVID, between COVID and House and now 69 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:23.240 this gigantic clawback of research money and federal money at 70 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.439 larger universities. Over the last year, it's very rare that 71 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:29.199 I talk to anybody that I would describe as a 72 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:33.879 frontline athletic worker that isn't deeply, deeply burned out and 73 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:36.120 looking to leave. And when I say frontline worker, I'm 74 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.919 not talking about Kyle Whittingham, although obviously he works a 75 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:41.919 ton of hours. I'm talking about the people that actually 76 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:46.439 execute the plans that coaches and ads put into effect. 77 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:48.520 So these are not just the comm staffers that you 78 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.719 and I talked to. These are the athletic trainers. These 79 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:53.919 are the people that are trying to sell ticket packages 80 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:56.759 to the Boys and Girls Club of Metropolitan Salt Lake City. 81 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:58.840 These are the people that are making all the social 82 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.960 media posts and and video and working on development work, 83 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.199 and the one hundred and fifty plus people in a 84 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.159 major athletic department that actually make everything go. Do these 85 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.120 guys get paid like crap? And not only do they do, 86 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:15.000 they truly get paid terribly and kind of you know, 87 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.560 run through the ringer. But what I've been hearing more 88 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:20.040 and more is I'm not expecting to get paid a 89 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:22.319 lot of money because I work in sports for a living. 90 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.360 I do want my boss to be invested in the 91 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:27.800 quality of work that I do. I want to feel 92 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.040 like what I do matters, that there's some kind of 93 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:34.920 connection between how well I do my job and success. 94 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.360 And if you don't feel that once you get to 95 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.000 on a mid career, a lot of people are going, 96 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:42.120 you know what, if I'm an athletic trainer, what am 97 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:43.920 I doing working for the University of Utah? When I 98 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.079 can go to some peak private pet clinic, never have 99 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.639 to work past six o'clock ever again and make twenty 100 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.040 grand more money. There's a real brain drain that I 101 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.120 can see happening, not just at the you know you 102 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:58.839 of U BYU level, but you know, down to the 103 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.959 uvus of the world for the people that are actually 104 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:05.399 making stuff happen, and that that is not a positive 105 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:07.319 thing for the industry, just like it's not for media. 106 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.560 I mean, I could give you a list of so 107 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:14.439 many names of brid eyed, bushytailed young people who would 108 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.000 you know, contact me how can I get in sports? 109 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.720 And you know, then you provide an avenue and then 110 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.240 suddenly they try it out and they just don't last. 111 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:26.879 You know, I do think we romanticize the industry in 112 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.079 a way that to your point, people that have a 113 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.720 skill set that could be translated into other endeavors to 114 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:36.199 allow their pocketbook to a little bit a little bit differently. 115 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.959 They want to work for Utah football because it's cool, 116 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.360 they want to work for BYU basketball because it's cool, 117 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.879 and then ultimately it just it doesn't last when they 118 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:46.439 experience the reality of it. 119 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:47.480 Now, it's not everybody. 120 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.680 There are plenty of people that have careers in the 121 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.399 space and they're, you know, able to kind of find 122 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:54.560 their way into a landing spot that allows them to 123 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.680 make a good living. But what sort of extra added 124 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.279 weight or pressure or work ode have you heard that 125 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:04.959 these staffers have received as a result of things like 126 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:07.800 nil and the new reality of what college athletics looks 127 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:08.279 looks like. 128 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.199 Yeah, So, I think an example that I hear a 129 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.439 lot from both big and small schools is with trainers. Right, 130 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.959 in a perfect world, you want some kind of emergency 131 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:25.959 trained medical professional trainer that's at every practice and and 132 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:28.360 every game, and you'll have some of those folks. You'll 133 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:31.319 be in the traveling party for every sport as they 134 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:32.240 go across the country. 135 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:33.759 Well as you are. 136 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:36.680 Let's let's say you're a basketball coach, right, and you're 137 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:38.600 really mad at your team. They went out there and 138 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.199 they played some late November game against to the head 139 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.879 Cares Division two team and there they stuck up the joint. 140 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.639 So the coach calls an emergency practice at eleven o'clock 141 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.879 at night. Well, guess what that means. The trainer who 142 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.480 might have had plans has to cancel all those and 143 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.920 they have to show up too. And you'll follow follow 144 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.600 the same structure here as everybody else, but you don't 145 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.000 get paid over time or any of that. And what 146 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:06.959 is increasingly, i am told the case outside of the 147 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:10.240 power flour is you have trainers who then are responsible 148 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.639 for serving so many different athletes that they don't feel 149 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:16.319 that they can provide a high standard of care if 150 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.000 they're responsible for four or five different teams. And when 151 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.720 you go to the school and say, hey, we've got 152 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.240 to allocate money to have more trainers are like, well, 153 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:25.959 that's fine, we don't have any money because they've got 154 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.680 to pay the players, or we we have to we 155 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.680 spend all this money on a new facilities, or the 156 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:33.920 state isn't going to give us any money, or the 157 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.720 fens aren't going to give us any money. So this 158 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.959 is the place that we decide to cut corners until 159 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:40.120 until it's too late. 160 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:42.079 It's very rare. 161 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:43.480 I think at this point that I can think of 162 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.639 schools that have hired common staff. Most people have laid 163 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.000 off or trunk their staffs, while also asking them to 164 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.639 produce more social media content, to produce more videos, to 165 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.240 produce more features, to be more visible, sometimes even doing 166 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.480 sales work. All of all, this is a lot, and 167 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:04.399 I don't think it's just about money. I think part 168 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.519 of the trade that people make when they work in 169 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.800 college sports is I'm going to take less salary in 170 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.399 exchange for really rewarding work that's around athletes. And also, 171 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:15.439 if I'm working for a university system, I should get 172 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:19.720 pretty good benefits. And I think that kind of trade 173 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.959 offs is increasingly not holding up. 174 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:25.000 All right, Matt, moving off this one. 175 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:28.959 Tell our listeners and me what the Score Act is 176 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:31.600 and why we need to know about it, And as 177 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.120 it kind of continues to gain some momentum, do you 178 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.559 think we're getting closer to this actually becoming a reality. 179 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.039 I think we're getting closer to a passing the House. 180 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:44.720 The Score Act is actually a bipartisan bill, although it's 181 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:50.440 overwhelmingly supported by Congressional House Republicans to address a lot 182 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:52.960 of the stuff that the NCAA has been asking for 183 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.080 for years. It would give the NCAA an anti trust 184 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:00.279 exemption to be able to enforce ANIL regulation, to be 185 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.960 enforce the terms of the House Settlement, and and so 186 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:08.039 they won't get sued. And it's like it's are not 187 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.840 and shouldn't be designated as employees regardless of what happens 188 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.320 with Johnson v. NC double A or other future court cases. 189 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.320 This is something that's really important. It's a powerful conference 190 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:23.480 conference leaders, but also folks in Indianapolis at the incident 191 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.799 because their concern is without some of these anti trust exemptions, 192 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.240 the CSC can't actually, you know, smack down anybody's nil 193 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.799 deal that goes above the cap. They won't be able 194 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:38.639 to enforce eligibility rules. And shoot, we already had that. 195 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:42.480 We just saw today grant in junction first and West 196 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.360 Virginia athletes to be able to play a lot of 197 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.519 athlete rights. This and economists and many progressors look at 198 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:54.240 this and think this is terrible because it's all it 199 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:57.240 does is handle overpower right back to the NC double 200 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:01.960 A that the Supreme Court kind of stripped, and that 201 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:04.639 lots of athlete rights activists have said that they shouldn't 202 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:06.600 have in the first place. It would be a step 203 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:10.320 towards kind of consolidating what the college sports world order 204 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.759 looked like about a decade ago. I can tell you guys, 205 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.240 it's very likely to pass the US House. It has 206 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.519 widespread Republican support. There's three Democrats that are co signing it. 207 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:22.159 Probably at least one more will vote for it. The 208 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:24.320 question is what happens in the Senate, because if you 209 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.399 want to break the filibuster, you need more than fifty 210 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.039 one votes, and the Senate Republicans, last time I talked 211 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:32.120 to some staffers there feel pretty good about getting some 212 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.919 Democrat support. They don't think they have sixty votes yet, 213 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:35.960 so we'll have to see. 214 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:40.000 Started the show off today after listening to Brian Rolapp, 215 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:42.720 who's the new commissioner excuse me, the new CEO of 216 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:46.240 the PGA Tour. Brian spent twenty two years as Roger 217 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:48.840 Goodell's right hand man, friend of the program of actually 218 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.120 interviewed me a couple of times. He's a really really smart, 219 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:56.519 really sharp guy, and he gave a very eloquent, organized 220 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.879 message about this committee. That he's starting with nine people 221 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.200 led by Tiger. Tiger Woods is going to be on it, 222 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.080 and he used the word innovate about six or seven times. 223 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.639 They want to innovate, they want to improve, they want 224 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.360 to capitalize on this moment the golf is having that 225 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.960 it quite frankly has never had. It is so wildly 226 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.519 popular that you can barely get a tea time and 227 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.000 they're like five six hour rounds, so everybody's like, ratings 228 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.799 are up, interest is up, you know. And to juxtapose 229 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.159 what I perceived to be a very intelligent, organized approach 230 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.720 from a new CEO of the PGA Tour, I talked 231 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.759 a lot about the difference between innovation and then change 232 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:40.480 for change's sake, and it seems like college athletics, college 233 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.200 football specifically oftentimes just. 234 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.159 Wants to change just to change. 235 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.399 And the new proposal that was forwarded by the Big 236 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:51.679 ten to expand the CFP to twenty eight, to give 237 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.799 the Big ten seven auto bids, the SEC seven, Big 238 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:57.639 twelve would get five, the ACC would get. 239 00:11:57.480 --> 00:11:59.440 Five, then there's some left over number. 240 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.840 It strikes me as so tone deaf because you eliminate 241 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:09.080 conference championship games and what you do is almost not entirely, 242 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.919 but you really do kill the main thing that I 243 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:14.320 think makes this sport great, and that is the prescient 244 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:18.639 nature of every weekend, the urgent nature of every single 245 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:19.440 conference game. 246 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:21.720 Does this thing have any legs at all? 247 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.879 Like, what's your reaction when you saw that this is 248 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:27.799 the thing that the Big Ten decided to actually leak 249 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:28.240 out there? 250 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.360 When I first heard about this, my first thought is 251 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:38.879 always I personally appreciate when schools and conference offices are 252 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:42.440 willing to leak stuff to reporters, throw things at the 253 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:46.639 wall that they know are not completely baked and get 254 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:48.519 beaten up a little bit, because I actually I think 255 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:51.600 that's a way to kind of keep organizations from making 256 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.679 really bad decisions. And sometimes after an idea kind of 257 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:58.639 gets dragged through the national, you know, discourse circuit, sometimes 258 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:00.919 it comes out better. And that was kind of my 259 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.080 read on the Big Ten's proposal. Like I'll tell you, 260 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.600 I talk to people that work at the Big Ten. 261 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.039 Like Big ten headquarters is fifteen minutes from my house. 262 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.159 There are people that have Big ten email addresses, are like, now, 263 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.799 this is a stupid idea, And what I think this 264 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.519 is more about is trying to negotiate in public to 265 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:20.720 throw something out so Atlantish and like Ash Hucks, You're right, 266 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.279 twenty six is way too many. We should go back 267 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:26.720 to sixteen, right and try to you know, shift the 268 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:28.879 terms of the debate to go get what they really want, 269 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:33.600 which is automatic more automatic bids. So a team like 270 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.759 in Iowa or Minnesota or Wisconsin that will probably not 271 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.440 make the twelfth team college football Playoff more than once 272 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:44.240 a decade has more of a pathway to that world. 273 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:46.960 I think that overwhelmingly benefits the Big Ten in the SEC. 274 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:51.679 The plus sucks. I agree with you. I haven't seen 275 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:55.240 anybody in the here in the Midwest in the footprints, 276 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.279 you know, really really cake for this thing. I didn't 277 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:02.000 even think the mass pencils out because conference championship games, 278 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.600 even as they are, you know, less important than they 279 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:09.559 were in like nineteen ninety four, they're enormously valuable, not 280 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:14.399 just broadcast television inventory, but they're really important for conference sponsorships. 281 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.440 Like you know this, the SEC and the Big Ten 282 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.320 make a lot of money selling sponsorships at Lucas Oil 283 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.080 Stadium and you know the Georgia to only all these 284 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.960 other places for these events. So you have to bet 285 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:30.440 that now, you know, moving inventory that you control to 286 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.759 the college football Playoff that you don't control will make 287 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.279 you financially whole I for a game, first round game 288 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.480 that's going to feature you, like two eight and five teams. 289 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:42.559 I very much struggle to see how that works for anybody. 290 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:47.960 The Salt Lake Tribune did a really interesting piece this 291 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:52.960 week on BYU and their athletic department. Budget is double 292 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:57.480 since twenty twenty. According to the Tribune, they interviewed a 293 00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:01.759 history professor at BYU. Excuse me, he's a leading Latter 294 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.440 Day Saint expert of Colorado State. His name is Matt Harris. 295 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:05.279 Uh. 296 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.320 The Church Commissioner of Education, Clark Gilbert, he's a general authority, 297 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.360 UH sent out you know, this tweet about, you know, 298 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:17.000 the way that BYU should handle their NIL endeavors and 299 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:18.120 their economic model. 300 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:18.759 UH. 301 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.919 And they they went in depth, and we've talked about 302 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.519 it quite a bit. UH And ultimately there's just kind 303 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.879 of this, uh, this conversation going on about whether or 304 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:29.600 not the modern version of Cougar athletics is at odds 305 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.840 with what BYU's mission is according to their their own mission, 306 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:36.679 their own model, and it does appear there are a 307 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:40.799 lot of people who work for BYU that aren't necessarily comfortable. 308 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.279 And you know, the the the friction between academia and 309 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.240 athletics at institutions as a tales old as time. This 310 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:49.639 is not a new thing, uh, but certainly a lot 311 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.919 of people, Uh you know, the pay for play is 312 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.679 not landing all that well with certain people down at BYU. 313 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.879 The fans love it, of course, because you're getting better 314 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.360 talent with the basketball team and the football team. It 315 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.320 just continues to be the messaging of you know, people 316 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:06.840 in the athletic department that doesn't land with me because 317 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.879 they're they're lying, is what they're doing. They have been 318 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.960 among the highest bidders to land certain players that have 319 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:17.399 played that are playing for basketball and football. The average 320 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.879 Big twelve roster, according to the Tribune, will be about 321 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:20.919 twelve million dollars. 322 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:21.279 This year. 323 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.600 BYU's is going to cost more than fifteen million. They're 324 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.679 paying Kevin Young as one of the highest paid basketball 325 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.399 coaches in the country. Kilani got a new deal, Rob 326 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.879 Wright three point five million from Baylor, Richie Saunders seven figures. 327 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.519 But there continues to be this like clandestine approach to 328 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.240 messaging from the Athletic Department that they just do not 329 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.759 want to say the truth out loud, which is you 330 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.879 are among the highest bidders in college athletics, which is 331 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.200 a benefit to you. 332 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:49.480 You are not breaking the rules. 333 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:51.600 You should be able to say it out loud as 334 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.519 opposed to lean into the BYU experience. And that's why 335 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.320 AJ sat like you're paying him five million dollars. Like, 336 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.039 it's a really interesting piece, And I just wonder what 337 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.200 your thoughts are with this dichotomy between one side of 338 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.480 what appears to be down at BYU with some administrators 339 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:10.799 not being comfortable with the way they're going about it, 340 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.359 then on the other side in the athletic department, while 341 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.480 they're clearly writing big checks, they just don't want to 342 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:16.279 say that out loud. 343 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.880 Yeah, I'll answer this question with the caveat that I 344 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.920 have not had a chance to read this in its entirety, 345 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.839 Like that's one of the stories that I've had opened 346 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.960 on tab for a minute here. Well, what I can 347 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.160 tell you just from being on this beat here for 348 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.319 a minute is that it's pretty rare to find an 349 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.680 ad or a senior administrator or a president who's willing 350 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.960 to say on the record, yes, we do pay near 351 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:43.279 the top of the market for talent. When I was 352 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.960 at the college football National Championship game and I was 353 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.039 down on the field after Ohio State won, and I 354 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.079 ran over and I grabbed ross Byorke as the confetti 355 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.599 is falling down, Ohio State sad And the only thing 356 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.240 that he wanted to talk about in that moment was Hey, 357 00:17:58.119 --> 00:17:59.960 Matt put it in the paper that we didn't have 358 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.480 the highest payroll for our football team, which which was 359 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.480 actually true they didn't, but like that was the narrative 360 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.680 that they wanted to spend. I feel like the only 361 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.240 school that's been willing to kind of say it with 362 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.039 their chest this offseason that yes, we are opening up 363 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.839 our checkbook is Texas Tech and and a big part 364 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:19.000 of that is because the check book opening up is 365 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:22.519 not exclusively coming from the university. It's also it's also 366 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.599 coming from some booster. So I think that there's there's 367 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:29.400 a there's a discomfort with with admitting we are paying 368 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.759 in the top twenty percentile for X, Y, and Z. 369 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.920 I don't think that's unique to b YU. I don't 370 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.599 think it's unique to the LDS Church. Like that's that 371 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.880 I think if you if we if we called up 372 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.160 Scott what we're at LSU right now or Brian Kelly, 373 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:45.000 he'd probably tell us the same thing, even if it's 374 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.319 not true. I also think, knowing what I know about 375 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:53.200 BAU athletics, if there's some some some discomforts with with 376 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.279 answering some of those questions, like, look, you have to 377 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:57.119 you have to say what if you're going to say 378 00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.119 something in the paper, you you have to say what 379 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.279 your bosses want you to say, even if you know 380 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:04.200 in your heart that that yes, you know our our 381 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.519 payrolls and the X percenter, you know for X, Y 382 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.279 and Z. If you know that if you say that 383 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:09.920 in the trade, if Clark Gilbert's going to yell at 384 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.839 you're not gonna do it. I understand that this is legitimately, 385 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.240 Like I'm not being dismissive or just saying that pejoratively, 386 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:19.960 like that's that's the gig, And that's true at state schools, 387 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.400 and and that's true somewhere else. There's a lot of 388 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.160 unique tensions in a place like b YU between the 389 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:32.640 athletic department, between academia, between central administration, between high level donors. 390 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.839 And I know that that's that's not unique to just nil, 391 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:38.640 I don't. I don't think this is a state, this 392 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.119 is this is a this is talking out of school 393 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.160 or gonna get me in trouble or anything. But the 394 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.319 ethotic department at b r U is gonna have often 395 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.359 has a different view about diversity related issues than everybody 396 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.559 else because they talked they work with the most diverse 397 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.400 pool students than anybody in the law school or the 398 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.440 business school or administration does like it's it's in their 399 00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.880 interest to maybe have a lighter touch or more inclusive 400 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:03.759 touch for their students. That it might be if all 401 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.079