Speaker 1: All right, ten days away from Utah football at the
Speaker 1: Rose Bowl against UCLA b Yu welcomes in Portland State. Well, Utah, stay,
Speaker 1: welcomes in Utah. It is week zero, though, so we
Speaker 1: have college football this weekend. Our next guest good enough
Speaker 1: to join us after his personal assistant ran interference earlier,
Speaker 1: the Great Matt Brown from Extra Points Matt, Happy Wednesday.
Speaker 2: How are we doing?
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm doing great.
Speaker 3: I appreciate nobody taking my eleven year old picking up
Speaker 3: the phone and hanging up personally just to glad that
Speaker 3: she didn't accellently get put on the air.
Speaker 1: Well, actually, Matt, in that vein, I told Porter, I
Speaker 1: was going to ask you if I could interview this
Speaker 1: young lady because at times she does do a little
Speaker 1: Twitter takeover and she seems like a very gregarious, funny
Speaker 1: young lady.
Speaker 2: Is that fair to say?
Speaker 3: I would say that she is better at social media
Speaker 3: than I am. I think every single time she ends
Speaker 3: up on my computer when I'm off doing something else,
Speaker 3: people are like, why are we paying to read Matt?
Speaker 3: Let's go, let's go hear the eleven year old review
Speaker 3: of K Pop Demon Hunters, and not about who's going
Speaker 3: to join the a sun next week, Like, sure, next time,
Speaker 3: we'll just get for the phone. I'll pay you a buck.
Speaker 2: Love it, Love it well.
Speaker 1: I wanted to have you on for a number of
Speaker 1: different reasons, but I saw a tweet of yours that
Speaker 1: caught my attention, got a lot of people's attention that
Speaker 1: I just find to be interesting and not talked about
Speaker 1: a whole lot.
Speaker 2: And look, I say this often.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been in media for about twenty years now,
Speaker 1: but I've spent my entire career in the realm of sports,
Speaker 1: whether it was marketing, pr venue management. And you're really
Speaker 1: sold kind of a bill of goods that oftentimes turns
Speaker 1: out to be completely not the thing you thought it
Speaker 1: was going to be. You are asked to work a
Speaker 1: ton of late nights, you're asked to work a ton
Speaker 1: of hours, and honestly, if you're lucky enough to work
Speaker 1: your way up to a high position, then you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna make a little bit of money.
Speaker 1: But up until then, and most people never make it
Speaker 1: that far, you just don't get paid very well.
Speaker 2: It's not near as glamorous as of.
Speaker 1: What most people believe because we watch the athletes, and
Speaker 1: now college athletes are being paid coaches are being paid
Speaker 1: millions of dollars.
Speaker 2: Athletic directors are getting rich.
Speaker 1: But what are you hearing about the other people in
Speaker 1: athletic departments that are now asked to even carry a
Speaker 1: heavier load without really getting an additional compensation.
Speaker 3: There's going to be a bigger story about this next week,
Speaker 3: and I think you're right to draw comparisons to the
Speaker 3: media industry, right Like I tell people, I love my job,
Speaker 3: I love running extra points. This isn't the best job
Speaker 3: that I've had so far, and I'm really fortunate that
Speaker 3: I'm I think, one of the few media people that
Speaker 3: has a fair amount of autonomy over what I get
Speaker 3: to do every day, and it makes a decent living.
Speaker 3: But it's wild to think that I'm probably like the
Speaker 3: top five percent, top ten percent of earners because the
Speaker 3: comp is so terrible. There's so few jobs left in
Speaker 3: this world, even for people who are doing stuff far
Speaker 3: more important, I think than what I do. And this
Speaker 3: is very much what I hear a lot from people
Speaker 3: that work in college sports, where it was I would
Speaker 3: say bad before COVID, between COVID and House and now
Speaker 3: this gigantic clawback of research money and federal money at
Speaker 3: larger universities. Over the last year, it's very rare that
Speaker 3: I talk to anybody that I would describe as a
Speaker 3: frontline athletic worker that isn't deeply, deeply burned out and
Speaker 3: looking to leave. And when I say frontline worker, I'm
Speaker 3: not talking about Kyle Whittingham, although obviously he works a
Speaker 3: ton of hours. I'm talking about the people that actually
Speaker 3: execute the plans that coaches and ads put into effect.
Speaker 3: So these are not just the comm staffers that you
Speaker 3: and I talked to. These are the athletic trainers. These
Speaker 3: are the people that are trying to sell ticket packages
Speaker 3: to the Boys and Girls Club of Metropolitan Salt Lake City.
Speaker 3: These are the people that are making all the social
Speaker 3: media posts and and video and working on development work,
Speaker 3: and the one hundred and fifty plus people in a
Speaker 3: major athletic department that actually make everything go. Do these
Speaker 3: guys get paid like crap? And not only do they do,
Speaker 3: they truly get paid terribly and kind of you know,
Speaker 3: run through the ringer. But what I've been hearing more
Speaker 3: and more is I'm not expecting to get paid a
Speaker 3: lot of money because I work in sports for a living.
Speaker 3: I do want my boss to be invested in the
Speaker 3: quality of work that I do. I want to feel
Speaker 3: like what I do matters, that there's some kind of
Speaker 3: connection between how well I do my job and success.
Speaker 3: And if you don't feel that once you get to
Speaker 3: on a mid career, a lot of people are going,
Speaker 3: you know what, if I'm an athletic trainer, what am
Speaker 3: I doing working for the University of Utah? When I
Speaker 3: can go to some peak private pet clinic, never have
Speaker 3: to work past six o'clock ever again and make twenty
Speaker 3: grand more money. There's a real brain drain that I
Speaker 3: can see happening, not just at the you know you
Speaker 3: of U BYU level, but you know, down to the
Speaker 3: uvus of the world for the people that are actually
Speaker 3: making stuff happen, and that that is not a positive
Speaker 3: thing for the industry, just like it's not for media.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could give you a list of so
Speaker 1: many names of brid eyed, bushytailed young people who would
Speaker 1: you know, contact me how can I get in sports?
Speaker 1: And you know, then you provide an avenue and then
Speaker 1: suddenly they try it out and they just don't last.
Speaker 1: You know, I do think we romanticize the industry in
Speaker 1: a way that to your point, people that have a
Speaker 1: skill set that could be translated into other endeavors to
Speaker 1: allow their pocketbook to a little bit a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: They want to work for Utah football because it's cool,
Speaker 1: they want to work for BYU basketball because it's cool,
Speaker 1: and then ultimately it just it doesn't last when they
Speaker 1: experience the reality of it.
Speaker 2: Now, it's not everybody.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of people that have careers in the
Speaker 1: space and they're, you know, able to kind of find
Speaker 1: their way into a landing spot that allows them to
Speaker 1: make a good living. But what sort of extra added
Speaker 1: weight or pressure or work ode have you heard that
Speaker 1: these staffers have received as a result of things like
Speaker 1: nil and the new reality of what college athletics looks
Speaker 1: looks like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I think an example that I hear a
Speaker 3: lot from both big and small schools is with trainers. Right,
Speaker 3: in a perfect world, you want some kind of emergency
Speaker 3: trained medical professional trainer that's at every practice and and
Speaker 3: every game, and you'll have some of those folks. You'll
Speaker 3: be in the traveling party for every sport as they
Speaker 3: go across the country.
Speaker 1: Well as you are.
Speaker 3: Let's let's say you're a basketball coach, right, and you're
Speaker 3: really mad at your team. They went out there and
Speaker 3: they played some late November game against to the head
Speaker 3: Cares Division two team and there they stuck up the joint.
Speaker 3: So the coach calls an emergency practice at eleven o'clock
Speaker 3: at night. Well, guess what that means. The trainer who
Speaker 3: might have had plans has to cancel all those and
Speaker 3: they have to show up too. And you'll follow follow
Speaker 3: the same structure here as everybody else, but you don't
Speaker 3: get paid over time or any of that. And what
Speaker 3: is increasingly, i am told the case outside of the
Speaker 3: power flour is you have trainers who then are responsible
Speaker 3: for serving so many different athletes that they don't feel
Speaker 3: that they can provide a high standard of care if
Speaker 3: they're responsible for four or five different teams. And when
Speaker 3: you go to the school and say, hey, we've got
Speaker 3: to allocate money to have more trainers are like, well,
Speaker 3: that's fine, we don't have any money because they've got
Speaker 3: to pay the players, or we we have to we
Speaker 3: spend all this money on a new facilities, or the
Speaker 3: state isn't going to give us any money, or the
Speaker 3: fens aren't going to give us any money. So this
Speaker 3: is the place that we decide to cut corners until
Speaker 3: until it's too late.
Speaker 2: It's very rare.
Speaker 3: I think at this point that I can think of
Speaker 3: schools that have hired common staff. Most people have laid
Speaker 3: off or trunk their staffs, while also asking them to
Speaker 3: produce more social media content, to produce more videos, to
Speaker 3: produce more features, to be more visible, sometimes even doing
Speaker 3: sales work. All of all, this is a lot, and
Speaker 3: I don't think it's just about money. I think part
Speaker 3: of the trade that people make when they work in
Speaker 3: college sports is I'm going to take less salary in
Speaker 3: exchange for really rewarding work that's around athletes. And also,
Speaker 3: if I'm working for a university system, I should get
Speaker 3: pretty good benefits. And I think that kind of trade
Speaker 3: offs is increasingly not holding up.
Speaker 2: All right, Matt, moving off this one.
Speaker 1: Tell our listeners and me what the Score Act is
Speaker 1: and why we need to know about it, And as
Speaker 1: it kind of continues to gain some momentum, do you
Speaker 1: think we're getting closer to this actually becoming a reality.
Speaker 3: I think we're getting closer to a passing the House.
Speaker 3: The Score Act is actually a bipartisan bill, although it's
Speaker 3: overwhelmingly supported by Congressional House Republicans to address a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff that the NCAA has been asking for
Speaker 3: for years. It would give the NCAA an anti trust
Speaker 3: exemption to be able to enforce ANIL regulation, to be
Speaker 3: enforce the terms of the House Settlement, and and so
Speaker 3: they won't get sued. And it's like it's are not
Speaker 3: and shouldn't be designated as employees regardless of what happens
Speaker 3: with Johnson v. NC double A or other future court cases.
Speaker 3: This is something that's really important. It's a powerful conference
Speaker 3: conference leaders, but also folks in Indianapolis at the incident
Speaker 3: because their concern is without some of these anti trust exemptions,
Speaker 3: the CSC can't actually, you know, smack down anybody's nil
Speaker 3: deal that goes above the cap. They won't be able
Speaker 3: to enforce eligibility rules. And shoot, we already had that.
Speaker 3: We just saw today grant in junction first and West
Speaker 3: Virginia athletes to be able to play a lot of
Speaker 3: athlete rights. This and economists and many progressors look at
Speaker 3: this and think this is terrible because it's all it
Speaker 3: does is handle overpower right back to the NC double
Speaker 3: A that the Supreme Court kind of stripped, and that
Speaker 3: lots of athlete rights activists have said that they shouldn't
Speaker 3: have in the first place. It would be a step
Speaker 3: towards kind of consolidating what the college sports world order
Speaker 3: looked like about a decade ago. I can tell you guys,
Speaker 3: it's very likely to pass the US House. It has
Speaker 3: widespread Republican support. There's three Democrats that are co signing it.
Speaker 3: Probably at least one more will vote for it. The
Speaker 3: question is what happens in the Senate, because if you
Speaker 3: want to break the filibuster, you need more than fifty
Speaker 3: one votes, and the Senate Republicans, last time I talked
Speaker 3: to some staffers there feel pretty good about getting some
Speaker 3: Democrat support. They don't think they have sixty votes yet,
Speaker 3: so we'll have to see.
Speaker 1: Started the show off today after listening to Brian Rolapp,
Speaker 1: who's the new commissioner excuse me, the new CEO of
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. Brian spent twenty two years as Roger
Speaker 1: Goodell's right hand man, friend of the program of actually
Speaker 1: interviewed me a couple of times. He's a really really smart,
Speaker 1: really sharp guy, and he gave a very eloquent, organized
Speaker 1: message about this committee. That he's starting with nine people
Speaker 1: led by Tiger. Tiger Woods is going to be on it,
Speaker 1: and he used the word innovate about six or seven times.
Speaker 1: They want to innovate, they want to improve, they want
Speaker 1: to capitalize on this moment the golf is having that
Speaker 1: it quite frankly has never had. It is so wildly
Speaker 1: popular that you can barely get a tea time and
Speaker 1: they're like five six hour rounds, so everybody's like, ratings
Speaker 1: are up, interest is up, you know. And to juxtapose
Speaker 1: what I perceived to be a very intelligent, organized approach
Speaker 1: from a new CEO of the PGA Tour, I talked
Speaker 1: a lot about the difference between innovation and then change
Speaker 1: for change's sake, and it seems like college athletics, college
Speaker 1: football specifically oftentimes just.
Speaker 2: Wants to change just to change.
Speaker 1: And the new proposal that was forwarded by the Big
Speaker 1: ten to expand the CFP to twenty eight, to give
Speaker 1: the Big ten seven auto bids, the SEC seven, Big
Speaker 1: twelve would get five, the ACC would get.
Speaker 2: Five, then there's some left over number.
Speaker 1: It strikes me as so tone deaf because you eliminate
Speaker 1: conference championship games and what you do is almost not entirely,
Speaker 1: but you really do kill the main thing that I
Speaker 1: think makes this sport great, and that is the prescient
Speaker 1: nature of every weekend, the urgent nature of every single
Speaker 1: conference game.
Speaker 2: Does this thing have any legs at all?
Speaker 1: Like, what's your reaction when you saw that this is
Speaker 1: the thing that the Big Ten decided to actually leak
Speaker 1: out there?
Speaker 3: When I first heard about this, my first thought is
Speaker 3: always I personally appreciate when schools and conference offices are
Speaker 3: willing to leak stuff to reporters, throw things at the
Speaker 3: wall that they know are not completely baked and get
Speaker 3: beaten up a little bit, because I actually I think
Speaker 3: that's a way to kind of keep organizations from making
Speaker 3: really bad decisions. And sometimes after an idea kind of
Speaker 3: gets dragged through the national, you know, discourse circuit, sometimes
Speaker 3: it comes out better. And that was kind of my
Speaker 3: read on the Big Ten's proposal. Like I'll tell you,
Speaker 3: I talk to people that work at the Big Ten.
Speaker 3: Like Big ten headquarters is fifteen minutes from my house.
Speaker 3: There are people that have Big ten email addresses, are like, now,
Speaker 3: this is a stupid idea, And what I think this
Speaker 3: is more about is trying to negotiate in public to
Speaker 3: throw something out so Atlantish and like Ash Hucks, You're right,
Speaker 3: twenty six is way too many. We should go back
Speaker 3: to sixteen, right and try to you know, shift the
Speaker 3: terms of the debate to go get what they really want,
Speaker 3: which is automatic more automatic bids. So a team like
Speaker 3: in Iowa or Minnesota or Wisconsin that will probably not
Speaker 3: make the twelfth team college football Playoff more than once
Speaker 3: a decade has more of a pathway to that world.
Speaker 3: I think that overwhelmingly benefits the Big Ten in the SEC.
Speaker 3: The plus sucks. I agree with you. I haven't seen
Speaker 3: anybody in the here in the Midwest in the footprints,
Speaker 3: you know, really really cake for this thing. I didn't
Speaker 3: even think the mass pencils out because conference championship games,
Speaker 3: even as they are, you know, less important than they
Speaker 3: were in like nineteen ninety four, they're enormously valuable, not
Speaker 3: just broadcast television inventory, but they're really important for conference sponsorships.
Speaker 3: Like you know this, the SEC and the Big Ten
Speaker 3: make a lot of money selling sponsorships at Lucas Oil
Speaker 3: Stadium and you know the Georgia to only all these
Speaker 3: other places for these events. So you have to bet
Speaker 3: that now, you know, moving inventory that you control to
Speaker 3: the college football Playoff that you don't control will make
Speaker 3: you financially whole I for a game, first round game
Speaker 3: that's going to feature you, like two eight and five teams.
Speaker 3: I very much struggle to see how that works for anybody.
Speaker 1: The Salt Lake Tribune did a really interesting piece this
Speaker 1: week on BYU and their athletic department. Budget is double
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty. According to the Tribune, they interviewed a
Speaker 1: history professor at BYU. Excuse me, he's a leading Latter
Speaker 1: Day Saint expert of Colorado State. His name is Matt Harris.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: The Church Commissioner of Education, Clark Gilbert, he's a general authority,
Speaker 1: UH sent out you know, this tweet about, you know,
Speaker 1: the way that BYU should handle their NIL endeavors and
Speaker 1: their economic model.
Speaker 3: UH.
Speaker 1: And they they went in depth, and we've talked about
Speaker 1: it quite a bit. UH And ultimately there's just kind
Speaker 1: of this, uh, this conversation going on about whether or
Speaker 1: not the modern version of Cougar athletics is at odds
Speaker 1: with what BYU's mission is according to their their own mission,
Speaker 1: their own model, and it does appear there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people who work for BYU that aren't necessarily comfortable.
Speaker 1: And you know, the the the friction between academia and
Speaker 1: athletics at institutions as a tales old as time. This
Speaker 1: is not a new thing, uh, but certainly a lot
Speaker 1: of people, Uh you know, the pay for play is
Speaker 1: not landing all that well with certain people down at BYU.
Speaker 1: The fans love it, of course, because you're getting better
Speaker 1: talent with the basketball team and the football team. It
Speaker 1: just continues to be the messaging of you know, people
Speaker 1: in the athletic department that doesn't land with me because
Speaker 1: they're they're lying, is what they're doing. They have been
Speaker 1: among the highest bidders to land certain players that have
Speaker 1: played that are playing for basketball and football. The average
Speaker 1: Big twelve roster, according to the Tribune, will be about
Speaker 1: twelve million dollars.
Speaker 3: This year.
Speaker 1: BYU's is going to cost more than fifteen million. They're
Speaker 1: paying Kevin Young as one of the highest paid basketball
Speaker 1: coaches in the country. Kilani got a new deal, Rob
Speaker 1: Wright three point five million from Baylor, Richie Saunders seven figures.
Speaker 1: But there continues to be this like clandestine approach to
Speaker 1: messaging from the Athletic Department that they just do not
Speaker 1: want to say the truth out loud, which is you
Speaker 1: are among the highest bidders in college athletics, which is
Speaker 1: a benefit to you.
Speaker 2: You are not breaking the rules.
Speaker 1: You should be able to say it out loud as
Speaker 1: opposed to lean into the BYU experience. And that's why
Speaker 1: AJ sat like you're paying him five million dollars. Like,
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting piece, And I just wonder what
Speaker 1: your thoughts are with this dichotomy between one side of
Speaker 1: what appears to be down at BYU with some administrators
Speaker 1: not being comfortable with the way they're going about it,
Speaker 1: then on the other side in the athletic department, while
Speaker 1: they're clearly writing big checks, they just don't want to
Speaker 1: say that out loud.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll answer this question with the caveat that I
Speaker 3: have not had a chance to read this in its entirety,
Speaker 3: Like that's one of the stories that I've had opened
Speaker 3: on tab for a minute here. Well, what I can
Speaker 3: tell you just from being on this beat here for
Speaker 3: a minute is that it's pretty rare to find an
Speaker 3: ad or a senior administrator or a president who's willing
Speaker 3: to say on the record, yes, we do pay near
Speaker 3: the top of the market for talent. When I was
Speaker 3: at the college football National Championship game and I was
Speaker 3: down on the field after Ohio State won, and I
Speaker 3: ran over and I grabbed ross Byorke as the confetti
Speaker 3: is falling down, Ohio State sad And the only thing
Speaker 3: that he wanted to talk about in that moment was Hey,
Speaker 3: Matt put it in the paper that we didn't have
Speaker 3: the highest payroll for our football team, which which was
Speaker 3: actually true they didn't, but like that was the narrative
Speaker 3: that they wanted to spend. I feel like the only
Speaker 3: school that's been willing to kind of say it with
Speaker 3: their chest this offseason that yes, we are opening up
Speaker 3: our checkbook is Texas Tech and and a big part
Speaker 3: of that is because the check book opening up is
Speaker 3: not exclusively coming from the university. It's also it's also
Speaker 3: coming from some booster. So I think that there's there's
Speaker 3: a there's a discomfort with with admitting we are paying
Speaker 3: in the top twenty percentile for X, Y, and Z.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's unique to b YU. I don't
Speaker 3: think it's unique to the LDS Church. Like that's that
Speaker 3: I think if you if we if we called up
Speaker 3: Scott what we're at LSU right now or Brian Kelly,
Speaker 3: he'd probably tell us the same thing, even if it's
Speaker 3: not true. I also think, knowing what I know about
Speaker 3: BAU athletics, if there's some some some discomforts with with
Speaker 3: answering some of those questions, like, look, you have to
Speaker 3: you have to say what if you're going to say
Speaker 3: something in the paper, you you have to say what
Speaker 3: your bosses want you to say, even if you know
Speaker 3: in your heart that that yes, you know our our
Speaker 3: payrolls and the X percenter, you know for X, Y
Speaker 3: and Z. If you know that if you say that
Speaker 3: in the trade, if Clark Gilbert's going to yell at
Speaker 3: you're not gonna do it. I understand that this is legitimately,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not being dismissive or just saying that pejoratively,
Speaker 3: like that's that's the gig, And that's true at state schools,
Speaker 3: and and that's true somewhere else. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: unique tensions in a place like b YU between the
Speaker 3: athletic department, between academia, between central administration, between high level donors.
Speaker 3: And I know that that's that's not unique to just nil,
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think this is a state, this
Speaker 3: is this is a this is talking out of school
Speaker 3: or gonna get me in trouble or anything. But the
Speaker 3: ethotic department at b r U is gonna have often
Speaker 3: has a different view about diversity related issues than everybody
Speaker 3: else because they talked they work with the most diverse
Speaker 3: pool students than anybody in the law school or the
Speaker 3: business school or administration does like it's it's in their
Speaker 3: interest to maybe have a lighter touch or more inclusive
Speaker 3: touch for their students. That it might be if all
Speaker 3: you do is teach American heritage. That's true for fundraising
Speaker 3: that that you know that that's true for for lots
Speaker 3: of other departments. I don't know how it ends. Like
Speaker 3: what I would say to anybody listening to this, trying
Speaker 3: my very best to not be biased, is I don't
Speaker 3: think there's a writer or wrong way to feel about this.
Speaker 3: From my reading of the scriptures and my understanding of
Speaker 3: LDS theology, I don't think there is anything that you
Speaker 3: know runs counter to church teachings. In paying a basketball
Speaker 3: player five million dollars, I understand for cultural reasons or
Speaker 3: other reasons. Why so that would make somebody uncomfortable, and
Speaker 3: I think both of those feelings are valid. I share
Speaker 3: your thought that I wish the people that we talked
Speaker 3: to would would just tell us the full truth instead
Speaker 3: of hiding behind euphanisms. But that is I you know,
Speaker 3: I don't think I could throw any any proverbial rocks
Speaker 3: just that pro for that, because I think that's a
Speaker 3: higher education challenge, not just the Utah County challenge for sure.
Speaker 2: You know, I find interesting.
Speaker 1: I've got a good friend who's a Notre Dame alum
Speaker 1: and he's Catholic, obviously Notre Dame Catholic the tie there,
Speaker 1: and we were discussing he's done well, and he donates
Speaker 1: heavily to his alma mater, and he loves Notre Dame football,
Speaker 1: Notre Dame basketball, and the language he uses isn't unlike
Speaker 1: what I hear from some of my LDS buddies who
Speaker 1: went to BYU, who also you know, it's just kind
Speaker 1: of it almost feels in a way, Matt, that some
Speaker 1: of these religious institutions have this built in advantage when
Speaker 1: it comes to raising money with NIL, because if you
Speaker 1: are a faithful member of a certain religion and you
Speaker 1: believe that your money will help further the message of
Speaker 1: the religion you belong to. If your by you were
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, you can send out the message to the
Speaker 1: masses like, okay, all you faithful believers, our football program
Speaker 1: being good helps the mission of the church, So open
Speaker 1: up your checkbook. It's kind of an interesting dynamic that
Speaker 1: some of these faith based institutions do kind of have
Speaker 1: this nil thought raising advantage. You know, yeah, maybe like
Speaker 1: that actually I think might be something that that's worth
Speaker 1: investigating or worth turning into an actual story.
Speaker 3: You know. One of one of the differences I think
Speaker 3: between b YU and that kind of approach and maybe
Speaker 3: other large religious institutions in Division one is uh, most
Speaker 3: Protestant and even Catholic institutions are not missionary focused. The
Speaker 3: the the these you know, the spreading the message of
Speaker 3: Catholicism through Notre Dame football does not have like the
Speaker 3: same doesn't mean the same thing, I think as as
Speaker 3: as it does in Mormondom, I don't know if there's
Speaker 3: as many people that are like you know, checking the
Speaker 3: annual statu reports about about how many people went to
Speaker 3: Mass or or you know, if they opened up a
Speaker 3: new parish somewhere maybe the same way that that that
Speaker 3: that happens in this market. I think there what you're
Speaker 3: describing is something that could be true for Liberty, that
Speaker 3: it could be true for some other institutions, But there's
Speaker 3: a lot of faith based schools, and like, I don't
Speaker 3: know if that helps Jamie raise money at Grand Canyon.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think that that necessarily works for Baylor.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if there's anybody other than outside
Speaker 3: of the immediate Waco area that thinks like Baylor Bears
Speaker 3: football victories is as a positive sign for Baptists to
Speaker 3: slay the godless Episcopalians in the Protestant Wars or something like.
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't. I don't think it necessarily works
Speaker 3: that way. I think from an outsider who you know,
Speaker 3: who spent a long time in the LDS world, I
Speaker 3: think that that kind of argument would has a little
Speaker 3: bit more emotional heft about trying to give about the
Speaker 3: importance of constantly trying to grow and spread this message
Speaker 3: and to get validation in the national culture. I don't
Speaker 3: think that's a thing that like Wake Forest fans think
Speaker 3: about the same way, because they already are part of
Speaker 3: the culture.
Speaker 1: Certainly, yeah, yeah, yeah, and certainly the examples I utilize
Speaker 1: your anecdotal be interested to hear somebody like you read
Speaker 1: somebody like you actually dig into it to see if
Speaker 1: there's anything.
Speaker 2: There but man thinks a good idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad we were able to get past the
Speaker 1: first layer of the brown household to get you on
Speaker 1: the show today.
Speaker 2: Where where can people go get the work?
Speaker 3: My friend, you bet you can find my work my
Speaker 3: reporting at Extra Points mb dot com. I have some
Speaker 3: I'm gonna break a little bit of news about some
Speaker 3: some SCS conference re alignment tomorrow. I've got I've got
Speaker 3: some reporting that's gonna come out in a couple of
Speaker 3: days about they kind of burn out crisis within within
Speaker 3: college sports. I'm gonna be in the in Raleigh this
Speaker 3: weekend for the Raleigh Sports Podcast Festival and doing the
Speaker 3: reporting there and then next week when everyone else is
Speaker 3: talking about the biggest games in college sports, Like I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm excited. I'm going to Texas to go to the
Speaker 3: first ever game at ut RGV. We're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 3: counter program. You have to state Texas, you know, world here.
Speaker 3: I'm excited for some of the places on off the
Speaker 3: beat path. I think extra Points will be going this season.
Speaker 2: Very nice. Well, thank you for the time, save travels
Speaker 2: and we'll chat soon. Thanks Matt, oh yet you bet.
Speaker 3: Thanks friend the.
Speaker 1: Great Matt Brown College the college football newsletters called extra Points.
Speaker 1: I utilize it for the show all the time. It
Speaker 1: is definitely worth your time on his socials. Want to
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