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Speaker 1: Look up in the sky. It's a bird, it's a plane. No,

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it's the Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Okay, everybody, welcome to our Superman versus Man of Steel episode.

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We are so glad to have John Read of the

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thirty something Movie Podcast on our episode this week. It

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actually coincides with their three hundredth episode, which they're going

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to release this week. So as soon as you get

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done listening to this podcast, go over to the thirty

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something Movie podcast page click subscribe and check out their stuff.

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They've got some great, great episodes and they're a lot

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of fun.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, guys so much for tuning in again, or

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if this is your first time to listen to us,

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we're super glad to have you. Without further ado, Hello everybody,

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and welcome to the Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast,

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discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties

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and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James D.

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Speaker 3: Gray and Jason Couliban.

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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: This is the Superman one and two versus Mansteals.

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Speaker 1: We've got our guest John Reid with us from thirty

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s the podcast. John, how you doing Man. Good?

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Speaker 3: Have you? Oh, I'm doing great. I'm just I'm excited

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to be here with you guys, and just I'm agonizing.

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I'm agonizing over the decisions that we have to make here.

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It's going to change the course of Mighty rivers. It

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may reverse the rotation of the Earth. It may cause

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people to forget that they ever spent the night with Superman.

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I mean whatever, it's I'm just I'm ready. Let's go.

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Let's make some decisions.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's it. We've got to have John as a

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guest on every single episode from now. That's right.

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Speaker 3: It's been a day at work, So the fact that

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I knew that we were going to be able to

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get on and talk some Superman and all day while

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I'm supposed to be doing work stuff, I'm just walking

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around now. But I'm so glad to be with you guys.

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I'm having so much fun listening to your show, Like

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I cannot wait. Every single time your podcast comes up

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in my feet, I'm like, oh, no, skip all the

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other ones. You got to find out is it van

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Halen or van Hagar? We got to find out.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for being with us, Man, Why don't tell

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us a little bit about thirty something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So we started about close to five years ago.

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Now we are a bunch of teachers. So we're sitting

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around talking about movies. I think it was twenty fourteen

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we were talking about We're talking about nineteen eighty four,

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and we're like, Wow, there's so many movies that just

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you know, thirty years ago, so many great movies from

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this year, and we just started rattling them off. We're

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just like, oh, and we're like, just think about from

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eighty four. You had Ghostbusters, you had The Nightmare on

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Elm Street, you had all these gremlins, all these different movies,

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and then we started jumping into eighty five and we're like, oh, man,

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then you got back to the future, you guys. So

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as we were doing all this, I had kind of

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wanting to do a podcast for a long time, back

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before like even a lot of people knew what podcasts were.

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I had listened to some different podcasts and I thought,

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you know what, it sounds like those guys have a

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lot of fun, and I would love to find a

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way to do this someday and do it completely for

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free and somehow eventually get paid for it. So, you know,

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one out of three ain't bad. So you know, we

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decided at that point, we kind of said, hey, you

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know what, let's get together and let's talk about movies.

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That'll be our theme is we're going to talk about

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movies that are thirty years old. And then that way

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we don't have an ending point where like, we can

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keep this going as long as we want to, we'll

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be able to keep going, you know, forever and ever

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and ever. And so we started it up. We made

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some mistakes with our first episode. I know there was

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another podcast at the time where the guys used to

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get together and sit in a restaurant or a diner

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and they would record while they were having their dinner.

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And I thought, it's a cool concept. Let's do that.

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So I hold all of my equipment to our local

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Mexican restaurant completely not thinking about the fact that, well,

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wait a minute, they're going to have mariachi music going

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the entire time. We're all going to be munching on chips.

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So that's our infamous lost episode, the one we're willing

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to start with this episode number two. Premise, Like I said,

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the premise of our show is whatever year we're in,

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we're going back thirty years. One of the benefits, and

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I think you guys see this too, one of benefits

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is I mean, we're we're friends in real life. You know,

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we're not just we're not just podcasting with each other.

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Because somehow we went we met online somewhere and here

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you go.

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Speaker 1: Jason was the one that turned me onto you guys.

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He's probably been listening to you for two or three

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years now. Yeah, that's right, and I've been listening for

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the last year. So the first episode that I listened

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to though, was your two hundredth episode where you just

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you guys were It sounded like you're all in somebody's

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kitchen together and just having a great time, and I

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was like, this sounds I mean, it sounds awesome. It

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totally looked me in just all the movies that you

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guys were going through now thirty something Movie Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're on Twitter or Facebook, Instagram, all those different places.

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If you just look for three zero podcast you're probably

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gonna find us on most of those different spots. But yeah,

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that's the easiest way to find us. And thirty Podcasts

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dot Com is our website. You can get to all

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the episodes from there.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to say something about your co

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host real quick. It's almost always Pat and Bow that

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I hear. I know you have other guys who come

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in from time to time. But and I can't remember

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what the the movie was that you guys were talking about,

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But at some point in the podcast Pat and Bo

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started talking about Deli sandwiches. Maybe it was when the

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Harry met Sally, is what I'm guessing.

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Speaker 3: I think it was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was, I was salivating. I was just like, oh, pot,

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Pat and Bo need to just do their own let's

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talk about food podcasts, and I will. I'll guest host

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every time. All right, well you're here to join us.

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We're doing today.

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Speaker 2: We're going to compare Superman the movie and Superman two

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kind of as one big conglomerate versus Men of Steel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and John did an episode it was just you

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on actually two episodes, and if you want to go

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to Thirty Somethings podcast, it's episode one, one and two

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where he talks it was the it was the eightieth

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anniversary of the first Superman. He talks about in detail

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the whole origin story of Superman. And so when we

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first started talking about doing this podcast together. I was like,

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oh crap, I so much research that I've got to

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do because Superman is just this, I mean, it's volumes

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of history. And then I listened to those two podcasts

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and I was like, well, okay, I don't have to

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research anymore. I'm just gonna tell people to go done,

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go back to John's one eighty one and one eighty

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two of the thirty something podcast and you can get

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all of the backstory on Superman. And today we're just

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gonna we're going to focus on these three movies.

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Speaker 3: You guys have caused me such turmoil since since you

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sent me a message and you were like, hey, would

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you like to be on an episode of the podcast

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in which we pit these movies against each other? You know,

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Superman one and two versus Man of Steel? And my

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initial reaction, I mean, well, I mean it would have

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been my reaction right now too, But my reaction was

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are you kidding? Yes? I would love to. And then

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when that wore off, I actually started thinking about it.

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I was like, okay, all right, let's do this Superman

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one and two versus Man of Steel. I totally know.

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Oh but wait, there's this Okay, but now there's that

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this one better that. Oh, you guys. So there have

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been several times where, over the course of the last

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couple of weeks, since we've been messaging back and forth,

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my wife will see me like furiously scribbling something on

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a piece of paper or my iPad or whatever, and

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she'll be like, all right, so, which one is it today?

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And I said, Nope, I'm not sharing. I'm gonna have

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to listen to the episode. I'm not sharing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all of our listeners, you're going to have to

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hold out till the end for final judgment on these

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once we've done our comparison. Well to John's wife though, Yes,

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thank you Ford, thank you for letting him hang out

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with us today. It's double duty for the podcasting today.

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Superman the movie came out in nineteen seventy eight and

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December fifteenth, nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, there's a big origin

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story behind it. Let's get in that because that really

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is interesting.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the Salcans were the producers on this movie, and

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they bought the rights for this movie back in nineteen

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seventy four. Ilia Salkan the son went to Alexander Salkan,

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the father and said Hey, I think this is going

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to be a big hit. Now. Warner Brothers owned the

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rights to the movie at the time, and they said,

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I guess you can have it, but we're not going

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to give you any money for it. Right, So it

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was a negative, negative, negative pickup deal. Yeah, So they

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had to fund the movie themselves and then get reimbursed

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once it was finished.

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Speaker 2: That's right, This is the part where we defend the

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Salkans for just a second, for a brief moment, we're

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going to defend the Salcans. They had to front all

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the money for two epically expensive movies being filmed at

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the same time.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. Of course it was their decision to film

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two movies at the same time, because, as it turned out,

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they had had some success with that in the past,

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except for the fact that they got sued over Back

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in the mid seventies, they had produced The Three Musketeers,

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which then, unbeknownst to anybody involved in the movie except them,

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became the Three Musketeers and the Four Musketeers. So all

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of the cast and crew got paid for one movie,

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even though they ultimately ended up doing two movies, and

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so the Salcons got sued by all of those guys.

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And now there is a standard provision in all acting

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contracts called the Salcan clause that says, you got to

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tell us how many movies we're making right now?

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Speaker 3: Do you know?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, John, If you know who the actors

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that were considered to be Superman originally, this is a

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who's whose list in the seventies.

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Speaker 3: I know that one of the weirder ones that every

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time I hear that, I was like, how really, Dustin Hoffman,

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wasn't he.

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Speaker 1: One of them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Dustin Hoffman. Yeah, that's that's always one of the

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stranger is Muhammad Ali was There was an actual consideration. Yeah,

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I mean he I mean, obviously he's physically fit enough

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to be the guy. But has he been in anything

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at Oh no, No.

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Speaker 2: But he could look like a butterfly and sting like

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a bee, and he was he was.

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Speaker 1: He was in a Superman comic book. He was Yeah, yeah,

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that's right. Have you seen that, John?

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Speaker 3: I have you know what I've read? I have a

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I don't have the actual comic book. I read a

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reprint of it one time, and it was kind of

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it was meant to be, this a gimmicky thing throughout

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the seventies and some of the comics they had, like

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you know, Superman would get matched up with like JFK

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or Bob Hope or you know, all these I don't

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know what Superman and Bob Hope were doing, but you

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know they they had all these different issues where they'd

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have like these special guest stars. Yeah. Yeah, and I

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can't remember, at the top of my head a whole

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bunch of the story. But you know, on the front

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cover it's kind of an iconic cover with the comic books.

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Is you know, Superman and Muhammad Ali in a boxing

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ring together, you know, getting ready to throw down. And

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I remember seeing that as a kid and thinking, I

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don't know who that guy is, but he's about to die.

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Speaker 1: You don't get a boxer in the world. He's about

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to die.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, here's the list. Okay, I thought this

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was interesting. Now when when you say these people were considered,

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there was an approved list for Superman. The director can

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take this list and hire according to this list. Right,

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So you have Al Pacino, You've got Dustin Huff, You've

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got Bruce Jenner, You've got Steve McQueen and Paul Newman.

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Speaker 1: You've got Clint.

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Speaker 2: Eastwood, Muhammad Ali, James Kahan, Warren Bady, Neil Diamond, Neil Diamond,

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and then finally he wasn't approved. But so that's just

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alone really wanted this part.

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Speaker 3: I remember hearing about that.

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Speaker 1: No, statistically speaking, it's still the safest form of trouble Yo. Lois.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I Lois. There was like these two missiles,

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you know, there was the one and I had to

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go get the I did it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he fought hard. You know who kept him from

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doing it Marlon Brando at the time. So that's just

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the Loan was considered to be the next Marlon Brando,

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and Marlon Brando said, we went to the producers like, now,

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this guy's not right. Stallan is actually out there and

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you can find this on YouTube and he is trashing

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Marlon Brando, like I have no respect him for him as.

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Speaker 1: An actor, as a man, really put him down. Well,

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let's talk a little bit about that, since we're talking

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about getting the movie together. That was the way that

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they ultimately got them to buy in. So we we

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got Marlon Brando on board, They got Marlon Brando and

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then they got Gene Hackman.

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Speaker 2: Well, once they got Marlon Brando, on board and Gene Hackman.

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Then Donner had some freedom to Okay, let me we

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got the stars in plays, let me get somebody who

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looks the part.

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Speaker 1: And I'll back us up. For just a second, before

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Donner was on board, they were, I mean, this is

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this is kind of definitive sulkans. They were trying to

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find the cheapest place to make a movie, right, and

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so they said, okay, let's go to Italy. Italy is cheap.

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But then Marlon Brando had a warrant out for obscenity

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charges from the Last Tango in Paris, the rape scene,

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so they couldn't go there.

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Speaker 2: Guy Hamilton was the director at that moment, right, who

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had done all a bunch of James Bond movies.

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Speaker 1: Right. But then their next option was, well, let's go

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to England. But Guy Hamilton would be arrested after thirty

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days of being in England because he was.

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Speaker 2: Taxing he was, so they chose Marlon Brando over Guy Hamilton, right,

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So then they had to find a director.

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Speaker 1: The way Donner tells it is he was sitting in

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his bathroom. I'm sitting in the bathroom. You can imagine

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what's going on there, and he says, and I was

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really hungover and I had just woken up, and I

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get this call and it's some guy with a foreign

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accent saying, this is Alexander Salken.

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Speaker 3: You know who I am.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, no, what the heck do you want?

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While I'm a producer and interested in making Superman, would

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you like to direct? He's like, yeah, you know maybe,

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and he goes, we will pay you a million dollars.

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He's like, all right, You've got my attention. Where can

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I meet you? Donner at that point had only done

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The Omen and some other smaller movie that I can't recall.

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Speaker 2: It, Gillingan's Island. He was a director on some of

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the Gilligan's Island some.

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Speaker 1: TV stuff, and then Owen was his big one, and

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they had Jerry Goldsmith was the composer and Omen. He

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was at Donner's behest was supposed to be the composer

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for Superman, but then he wasn't available, so they got

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John Williams in. Then John Williams wasn'tvailable and Goldsmith was

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back in, and then Goldsmith was back out and John

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Williams was back in.

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Speaker 2: The settled for John Williams. Yeah, poor guys okay, and

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Margot Kidder got the part. So Donner was in charge

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of the auditions at this point. Yeah, he's, you know,

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looking for Loewsling and she got the I don't really

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have a list of people that would consider. But when

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she came into the room to audition, she tripped, she stumbled,

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and they thought it was charming.

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Speaker 1: He instantly said he fell in love with her. Right then.

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I gotta say, in rewatching it, she's not as unattractive

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as I remember her being when I was a kid,

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I just thought Superman could do so much better than

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this lady. But upon the rewatch, especially in Superman one,

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she's not a bad looking lady. No, no, she's not. Now.

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Speaker 2: By the time nineteen eighty one rolled around, she had

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had some breakdowns.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, lost her teeth and yeah, it's really rough road hard.

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Speaker 3: I think about when and I'd heard that before, about

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how she tripped, and they're like, oh, that's so charming.

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I have never been offered a movie part, and I

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feel like I have done that so many times in

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my life. I feel like, by now I should have

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an Oscar.

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Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting when Chris Reeve was brought

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in to read for the part.

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Speaker 2: He was six foot five, one hundred and seventy pounds,

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and he went to the guys and the like, ah,

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he's kind of skinny, you know, I don't know if

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he really could.

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Speaker 1: Pull off Superman. And he sweat refusely. Like at the

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end of Superman two, you know, he lifts up Zod

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and in that moment you see a little pit stain

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on the Superman really yeah, okay, And so when I

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heard you know, he's okay, So he has a pit stain.

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You know, that's that's something that happens to guys. You

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can't help that. But then I saw his actual audition

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tape before they had given him the padding and the

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industrial strength deodorant, and I mean it's literally down to

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his elbows on both both arms and down down to

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his waist. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But when he he they brought him in, he was skinny,

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tall and skinny, and he went to him and he said, listen,

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I was a jock in high school. I can put

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on the muscle, trust me, I can do it. And

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when Donner said, okay, listen, kid, you got the park

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and you got to make make sure you can do this,

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you know, so he trained with David Prowse, Darth Vader himself.

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Speaker 1: We know you're a big Star Wars fan.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I and and that the first time

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as a kid when I had heard that somewhere, I

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don't know if I was reading, I was reading the

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book or a magazine article or something as a kid,

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and I found that out. I'm like, whoa Superman was

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Darth Vader's apprentice? Outstanding? Outstanding.

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Speaker 1: So then as they're putting things together, they had anally.

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The Sulcans had gotten Mario Puzo to write the script

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in this thing.

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Speaker 2: Incredible.

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Speaker 1: And Mario Puzo, if the listeners don't know, was the

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one who had written Godfather one and two, which, of

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course just I mean, were the record setting in their

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box office success. I'm not really sure how you decide

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to put him in charge of a Superman movie script,

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but that's what they did. He wrote a five hundred

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and fifty page script that has never seen the light

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of day. Once Donner got his hands on it, he

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was like, this destroys the biblical canon of Superman. So

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he got Tom Makowitz to come in and do the

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serious rewrites on the script.

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Speaker 2: And once again I'm going to defend the Salkans for

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a second. So they fronted the money to get this done.

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They had the insight to realize, number one, that comic

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book movies were going to be successful in the box office.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's important to realize that in nineteen

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seventy eight, the idea of a comic book movie being

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successful was redicult to me.

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Speaker 3: That's what's amazing about this Superman movie. Yes it was.

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It was a hit when it came out. You know,

383
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people loved it, but even still, there were a lot

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of comic book fans that did not love this movie

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at all. It didn't fit with the Superman at the time.

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In the comics, in terms of general audiences, you had

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the Batman sixty six, you had Wonder Woman, she had

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the Incredible Hulk TV show. That's pretty much what you

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had in terms of superheroes on TV. Other than cartoons,

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and other than those you know three, there's probably other

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TV series that were out there at the time. Anything

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that was superhero, anything that was comic book related, was

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automatically also campy. Like for some reason, they always felt like, oh, well,

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comic books are for kids, so we got to make

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this show kind of for kids. We got to make

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it campy, we got to make it silly. And then

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the fact that you bring out a Superman movie and

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you're like, you know what, we're actually going to try

399
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to do a semi serious take on what if Superman

400
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was real? And some of the things I think in

401
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the early drafts of the script that I had read

402
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was they had all these crazy cameos for like the

403
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other actors and and you know comedians of the time,

404
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that we're going to just like walk in for a

405
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scene and say something silly and then walk off. Yep,

406
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And that would have totally made it, you know, just

407
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like the sixties Batman movie. It would have just made

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it silly. It would have made it cartoonish. And that's

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why I love that. The tagline I think on the

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poster for this movie and maybe in the trailer too,

411
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was you know, you'll believe a man can fly?

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Speaker 1: And from what I understand the the Salcans co producer

413
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producer Sper Spindler, that's it. Yeah. He spent he spent

414
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two solid weeks with the DC executives developing an integrity

415
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of the character clause for the contract before they were

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willing to let swap them this often have it. They

417
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they didn't want it. They didn't want the Batman thing

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to happen to to Superman because it's too valuable a character.

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I mean, it's it's one of the American fables.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine the pressure that the Salcans were actually

422
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under not only fronting this financially, but as soon as

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you get the permission to shoot this thing and let's

424
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go do this, you got to figure out how how

425
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can I make a guy fly?

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Speaker 1: That was a huge part of things. We can talk

427
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about that the flight thing later on, but that was

428
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that was definitely like the most critical issue of the

429
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filming was we cannot make this look can't We can't

430
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make it look fake. It's got to look real.

431
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Speaker 2: They toyed with lighters and cartoons until they finally got

432
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that complex cable thing, and I still am amazed.

433
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Speaker 1: So that's that's that's our origin story for Superman one

434
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and then for well, yeah, I mean sort of, there's

435
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obviously a story there with Superman two. So as the

436
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filming went on, the Salcans would constantly tell Donner that

437
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he was over budget and over time, and he mainstains

438
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to this day that he was never told what the

439
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budget was and never told how much time he had

440
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to shoot. But it got to the point that he

441
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couldn't handle be in the same room with Eric Spinkler

442
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or whatever his name is, and so they had Richard

443
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Lester come in as kind of a go between. Now,

444
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,240
Richard Lester was among those guys from the Three Musketeers

445
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and the Four Musketeers that was in the process of

446
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suing the Salkans at the time, so that you kind

447
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of get this idea that there was a wink wink,

448
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nudge nudge of you'll get your money, but we're going

449
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to get it to you through Superman instead of through

450
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this lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: I think there's no doubt. I mean, Richard Lester may

452
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a deal with the devil you guys have been screwing

453
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over for all these years.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 2: We'll get you your money, but you've got to help

456
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us out with Donner.

457
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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so even though you know that we talked

458
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about them filming both Superman one and Superman two at

459
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the same time, at some point they said, hey, this

460
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is getting so much publicity, we've got a chance to

461
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release it on the fortieth anniversary of Superman, stop working

462
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on part two and finish up part one. And well,

463
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if that's not obvious, what's about to happen to Richard Donner?

464
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I don't know what is. So they they take the

465
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ending from Superman two and put it at the end

466
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of Superman one. The whole spending the Earth backwards to

467
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reverse time was originally supposed to be the end of

468
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Superman two. The ending of Superman one was supposed to

469
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be as he pushes the one of the two missiles

470
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that lets Lutheris and off out into space, and that

471
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,519
missile is what destroys the Phantom Zone and releases the

472
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:24,279
three criminals.

473
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Phantom Zone that looks like Queen two, the

474
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,880
album they're all trapped in the Queen album.

475
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and in the Mario Pousa script there

476
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,039
was actually four guys. They would have really had the

477
00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:40,599
album cover they had, so yeah. So then they fire

478
00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:45,559
after after Superman one is a huge success, they fire

479
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,160
Richard Donner and they make Richard Lester the director of

480
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,440
Superman two. And they have to let enough time go

481
00:21:53,599 --> 00:21:57,240
by that Marlon Brando's contract expires so that they don't

482
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,440
have to pay him anymore. Sinus any York comes in

483
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:02,359
and that spot and kind of gives the you know,

484
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:04,599
I'm going to start teaching you, which if you've seen

485
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:06,559
the Richard have you seen the Richard Donner cut, John.

486
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,039
Speaker 3: I have, yeah, only once a few years ago. I

487
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,920
have the DVD, but I've only watched it once. I

488
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:12,960
enjoyed it. I liked it.

489
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, I enjoyed it as well. I mean it's

490
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,359
a little rough because they're using scenes from the test

491
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,240
footage that they did and auditions that they did. But

492
00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:24,559
the thing that is compelling about it is the Marlon

493
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,680
Brando part. Richard Donner set out to make this analogous

494
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,720
to the Christ story, and there's really when he has

495
00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:35,119
that moment where he's gone back after giving up his powers,

496
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,960
and he's gone back to try to get his powers

497
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,240
back even though he's been told it's not possible. It's

498
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:46,640
ultimately Joerell's sacrifice giving him his power that causes Superman

499
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,960
to become super again. That whole scene is pretty heavy

500
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,519
handed in you cannot ever love you, never ever ever

501
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,000
see you. Better think hard about this.

502
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: Okay, yet you left the Crystal no problem?

503
00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:02,039
Speaker 3: Then, Okay, I've conditioned my entire family to understand that

504
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:04,440
if we're watching a comic book movie, nobody ever dies.

505
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,880
Nobody ever, nothing's permanent. It's not going to happen. But

506
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:10,079
no one of the things, Like I said, I don't

507
00:23:10,079 --> 00:23:12,359
remember much, you know, in terms of some of the differences.

508
00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:15,720
It details the differences between the Richard Lester versus the

509
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:17,400
Richard Donner cut. But one of the things that really

510
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,759
stuck out to me, and I think it was one

511
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:20,799
of the scenes with Jarell. There's a part where he's

512
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,440
kind of explaining some of this stuff to Superman to

513
00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:26,200
kal El and but it's almost like he shoots a

514
00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:28,440
look over at Lois and it's almost like, you know,

515
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,160
this is all your fault. Like there's a moment where

516
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,519
he like looks at her and be like, you know what,

517
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,319
if you weren't here, I wouldn't have to be having

518
00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:37,400
this talk with my kid. And I vividly remember that.

519
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,519
Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong scene, but I vividly

520
00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:42,200
remember something like that and thinking, while this movie's a

521
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,359
lot darker than it used to be.

522
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 2: You know, in Defensive Low, she never asked him to

523
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,720
give up her powers, his power, and I mean, come on,

524
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,240
she fell in love with Superman.

525
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: She treated Clark like crust. Why would you decide to

526
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,279
be the guy that she doesn't like.

527
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: Man, if you're ever going to make a large, life

528
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:01,799
changing decision, please speak with the woman that you love

529
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:05,039
before you do that. Don't buy her a car. It's

530
00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:07,279
talking about my dad's situation. One time he got a

531
00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:08,759
really good deal on a car. But it was a

532
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:10,880
Grandma car and he got a great deal on it,

533
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:13,640
and we were all visiting family in Missouri and he

534
00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:16,640
was coming from Chicago and he drove up in that car,

535
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:19,680
got out and looked at my mom and said, check

536
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,480
out your new car. You know, I'm not going to

537
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:27,039
say that. I remember my parents fighting a whole lot,

538
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,000
but I felt like swords were going to be drawn

539
00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,400
at that moment. So you know, those type of things.

540
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:36,039
If you're going to buy a Buick Park Avenue that's

541
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,119
awfully ugly for your wife, or if you're going to

542
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,119
give up your Kryptonian heritage and superpowers, please at least

543
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,079
have some kind of conversation with the woman before you

544
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:44,599
do any of them.

545
00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: Hopefully your dad found his lost green crystal and regained

546
00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:48,599
his powers after that.

547
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:52,319
Speaker 3: Man, Yeah, like he was driving a new viewer. Hey,

548
00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:54,599
you know what, Actually, the next time around, when it

549
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,359
was somebody else's turn to get a new car, that

550
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,640
got passed down to the kids, and she got a

551
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,440
very nice new car after that. He did make up

552
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,000
for it later on.

553
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,599
Speaker 1: So then there was some you know, they've got other

554
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,920
people that they're talking about bringing in whenever. Richard Lester

555
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:11,000
is now directing Superman two, even though they've filmed seventy

556
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:13,519
five percent of it with Donner right, and one of

557
00:25:13,599 --> 00:25:15,519
those guys is John Williams.

558
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,319
Speaker 2: So the Ilia saw Kind, John Williams and Richard Lester

559
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:24,400
are in a room and they're watching kind of the

560
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,240
early cut of Superman two to discuss the score. Ilia

561
00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:28,960
saw Kind has to leave the room to go to

562
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,000
the bathroom, and when he comes back, John Williams and

563
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,000
Richard Lester had gotten in such a fight that John

564
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:39,079
Williams said, I cannot get along with this man.

565
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm out of here.

566
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: I'm done.

567
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:41,799
Speaker 1: You lose the greatest composer.

568
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: How do you do that?

569
00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:49,319
Speaker 1: It's crazy. Gene Hackman refused to come back, Valley peren

570
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:51,799
ned Baty. None of those guys came back. So everything

571
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:54,240
that you see in Superman two, that's got them and

572
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,640
it was filmed by Richard Donner. They brought Richard Donner

573
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,880
in too to see if you know, hey, you know,

574
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,599
you can have a co directing credit on this or whatever,

575
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,559
and apparently they got just at the beginning of the

576
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,799
Eiffel Tower scene before he got up and said, please

577
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,160
do not put my name on this movie.

578
00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:14,799
Speaker 2: Richard Donner is not the Richard Donner we know of today.

579
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:17,599
At that time, when he was shooting Superman, he was

580
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,759
just the guy who directed The Omen and Gilligan's Island.

581
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,799
Now he's the guy who directed Goonies and the leth

582
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:25,960
of Weapon movies. And Richard Lester had done Harday's Night.

583
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:28,319
Speaker 1: And Three Musketeers and Four Musketeers.

584
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 3: But right it seems like there was just a lot

585
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,400
of I mean, there's even some other stuff about how

586
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:36,920
even like Margot Kidder and several of the other people

587
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,440
just did not get along with him at all. So

588
00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:40,680
it just kind of sounds like he is not the

589
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,599
guy to work with, which is probably why most of

590
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,039
them didn't seem to come back for Superman three either.

591
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: In order for him to be.

592
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: Called the director, he had to shoot over fifty percent

593
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:49,920
of the movie well with seventy five percent of it

594
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,119
in the can. He had to reshoot scenes to get

595
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:52,480
the credit.

596
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,519
Speaker 3: So and his and his style it was very different

597
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:57,480
than Richard Donner's were there were a couple of things

598
00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:59,440
that I've read and just in watching the two movies,

599
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:02,799
Richard Donn they treated it very cinematically, for lack of

600
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:04,920
a better word, I mean, it was very much you

601
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:07,160
have all of these kind of very long shots, I

602
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,640
mean of some of it looks like it could be

603
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,640
a painting. Then you've got Richard Lester, and he was

604
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:12,799
very much like, I wanted to look like a comic book.

605
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:14,960
I'm going to cram a bunch of characters in this frame.

606
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,279
We're gonna move quickly, We're going to have this kind

607
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:18,680
of shot. We're going to do it this way. The

608
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:20,960
camera is going to pan this direction and this fast.

609
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:24,079
And so it sounds like he kind of wanted to

610
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:26,160
make his own mark on it. But also he didn't

611
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,519
agree with the very artistic way that Richard Donner had

612
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:32,680
wanted to shoot this. That it was much more of

613
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:34,400
a all right, well this is an action movie and

614
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,680
it's a comic book, so let's make it look like

615
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,240
a comic book.

616
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,279
Speaker 1: Well, and I'm gonna blaspheme here because I mean, let

617
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:43,559
me just say, I grew up obsessed with Superman two.

618
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,079
I literally memorized every line, watched it over and over again.

619
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,240
Then as you grow older, you realize, Okay, there's a

620
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:53,640
difference between these two movies. Stram one was a movie

621
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,440
made for adults and Superman two was a movie made

622
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,880
for kids. I mean, really, that's kind of the distinction.

623
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:04,759
And because as a slightly older person, not completely mature,

624
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:06,599
I watched Superman one again, I was like, this is

625
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,000
kind of long, this is kind of dull insponse, and

626
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,160
that's that kind of epic stuff that you're talking about.

627
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:16,759
So here's the blasphemy. Richard Donner was still campy. His

628
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,079
epic nous and his beautiful scenery was all in Smallville.

629
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,960
I mean, it was the great planes, and then you

630
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:26,400
had a little bit up in the Arctic. But when

631
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,000
when Superman comes to Metropolis, the comedy starts, and it's

632
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:36,079
it's that same style of goofy dialogue, puns and stuff

633
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,400
that continues throughout the Superman movie.

634
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: This, friends of mine, when we've had discussions about the

635
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,720
Star Trek movies, are you got Star Trek fans at all.

636
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: I really like the new iterations Chris Pine a whole

637
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,920
lot better than I do the old ones. I like

638
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,319
the old ones to watch the movies, and I watched

639
00:28:50,359 --> 00:28:52,200
the series a little bit, but I'm far from what

640
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,920
you were like Van Hagler over Ben Helen. Oh my gosh,

641
00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:59,160
I brought her audience. Go ahead, John, Sorry, but yeah no.

642
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,519
Speaker 3: And that's that's kind of a comparison that that I've

643
00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:03,400
made in the past two is. You know, as a

644
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,680
kid growing up, I used to really like the Star

645
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,400
Trek movies, and I I think some of, you know,

646
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:10,200
some of the stuff with these movies, is that the

647
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,440
age that I was when I watched these movies, I

648
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:14,160
was always watching them with my dad, and so I

649
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,559
always have just these memories of watching him with him

650
00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,359
ingrained in my head. And I think a lot of

651
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,640
my reaction came from his reaction, and I always think

652
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,839
of you know, and I love both of these movies too,

653
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,279
but I will fully admit that one is very long

654
00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,599
and very boring. Is the first the first two Star

655
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,359
Trek movies. Is I always feel like the Superman movies

656
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,440
are kind of similar to the Star Trek movies. In

657
00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:38,599
that Star Trek one even I mean, if you're if

658
00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:40,440
you're a Trek fan listening to this, if you've got

659
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:43,960
to admit that's a long movie, and it's not always

660
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:46,559
very exciting. Star Trek two that was you know, my

661
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,839
dad would watch that with us, and and and just

662
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,279
to me, and some people think that one's kind of

663
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:53,720
boring too, It's like it's like watching a submarine battle

664
00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:56,920
in space. But you know, it's to me, that movie

665
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,839
is exciting. And to me that's kind of like this

666
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,079
NonStop action movie. That's that's a Star Trek movie. And

667
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,839
that's kind of how I think about some of these

668
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,680
two Superman movies too. Is the first one, it's very

669
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:09,240
heavy on the story. It's the origin story, so you've

670
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,279
got to get that stuff in there. You gotta pack

671
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:14,680
as much history and mythology and information into this one.

672
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,039
A little light on some of the action. You know,

673
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:18,880
when they get to it, it's awesome, but a little

674
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,279
light on the action. Superman two, it's boom, We're we're

675
00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:24,480
action right away. You know, we're drop kicking people on

676
00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:27,400
the moon, we're walking on water, we're you know, all

677
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:27,880
that stuff.

678
00:30:28,039 --> 00:30:31,359
Speaker 1: And don't forget the montage of everything that was important

679
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,279
that happened in Superman one. I think I think I'm

680
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,079
rewatching Superman one. I thought to myself at one point,

681
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:39,079
I was like, did I actually watch this movie? Or

682
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,400
is everything I know about this movie from the beginning

683
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,519
of Superman two. I would say, since we're talking now

684
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:47,599
about Superman two, let's talk about nineteen eighty one and

685
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,400
what was going on, because you told me what was

686
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,559
what was being released in the theater at this time,

687
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,039
and I was just like, holy smokes, I would have

688
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:55,680
lived there.

689
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So Superman two was released in the United States

690
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:03,480
Une nineteenth, nineteen eighty one. In my estimation, this might

691
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:08,200
be the greatest two weeks of eighties movies released during

692
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,279
a week two week period anytime in the eighties. All Right,

693
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,839
So June twelfth, the weekend before Superman two was released,

694
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,640
you had History of the World by mel Brooks, Clash

695
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,519
of the Titans Awesome, and Raiders of the Lost Arc

696
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:25,480
all in the same weekend. Yeah, Okay, next week, June nineteenth,

697
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:30,680
Superman two. As we've said, yeah, canniball run hilarious. Right

698
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,559
the week afterwards, June twenty sixth, Okay, we're bookending this

699
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,440
Dragon Slayer, forty Your Eyes Only, Great Muppet Caper and Stripes.

700
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: So basically, if you're a kid in nineteen eighty one,

701
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,200
you're broke, you're constantly asking mom and dad, Mommy, can

702
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,759
I have a couple of bucks to go see a movie? Yes,

703
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:50,400
I would have had no money at all.

704
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,319
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the beginning of Man. Let's talk about

705
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:04,519
the origin story there. So this is an entirely different

706
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:08,279
time in history. Of course, this is two thousand and eight.

707
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:11,799
Warner Brothers starts to consider doing a Superman movie again.

708
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:16,400
Two thousand and six had seen Superman Returns, which wasn't

709
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,319
a big success. But in two thousand and eight, you've

710
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,880
got the Dark Knight has come out, iron Man has

711
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,200
come out, and so they're like, I think we can

712
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,920
do Superman again. And Iron Man and Dark Knight proved

713
00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:32,960
that superhero movies can be mind blowing successes. So why

714
00:32:33,079 --> 00:32:35,480
not go back to the original Superhero At Warner Brothers,

715
00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:38,119
with the success of Dark Knight and it being a

716
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,720
DC comic book movie, they were just waiting for Christopher Nolan,

717
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:46,480
And of course David Goyer is the one who'd written

718
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,599
the trilogy. The whole Dark Knight trilogy, and he comes

719
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,799
to Christopher Nolan at some point and says, I have

720
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,200
this idea for a Superman movie, and Christopher Nolan reads

721
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,480
his script and says, I want to make this movie.

722
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 3: You know, in terms of comic book movies, there's two

723
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,440
kind of famous threads of the movies that never got made,

724
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,160
and it's either Superman or spider Man. They always talk

725
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,440
about how spider Man. They were trying to make a

726
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,039
Spider Man movie all through the eighties, and you would

727
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:15,799
hear that like every year for a decade. Never happened.

728
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:18,440
Same thing with Superman. It was always you know, after

729
00:33:18,519 --> 00:33:21,440
Superman four, but they had plans to make a Superman five.

730
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,119
The rights went back to the Sulcans because they had

731
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,839
lost the rights and Cannon Films they were the ones

732
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,599
that did Superman four, and so after Superman four they

733
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,160
went bankrupt and they always kind of blame, you know,

734
00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:34,359
dumping a bunch of money into that movie as the

735
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,400
reason for part of their bankruptcy. But then the rights

736
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,759
reverted back to the Sulcans, and the Sulcans were, you know,

737
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,000
we should we should do a story, you know in

738
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:45,119
the comic books they had like this Bottle City of

739
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,559
Candor that had, you know, somehow escaped Krypton's destruction and

740
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,000
it was full of Kryptonians. What if we make a

741
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,640
movie that brings that bottle city back and it involves

742
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,160
bringing a whole bunch of Kryptonians. And so that was

743
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,279
kind of the the idea behind Superman five, and then

744
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,839
it just never got made. Then after that they had

745
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:06,440
the idea behind you know, there's the Superman Reborn and

746
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:08,400
that was around about the time that they did the

747
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,880
Death of Superman comic in ninety three, I think it was.

748
00:34:13,559 --> 00:34:15,840
And that was a huge hit at the time, and

749
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:17,360
I mean you had people that had never read a

750
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,440
comic book were like, well, well, Superman's dead. I got

751
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:20,920
to go find out what this is. And so that

752
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:23,920
I think those guys, yeah, and I think that really

753
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,320
kind of started a comic book boom. I mean, it

754
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,239
was already starting to pick up in the nineties, but

755
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:30,239
I think that's what started a lot of the heavy

756
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,159
collecting of comics and where it where things as a collector,

757
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,320
things got ridiculous. But when that was huge, then they

758
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,639
had these other ideas. They're like, well, you know what,

759
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,519
let's do a death of Superman movie, like, let's do this.

760
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,400
Let's let's kill him in the movie and let's bring

761
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,880
him back, and let's let's have this, you know, amazing

762
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:48,320
movie where he's got the you know, this giant robotics

763
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,880
suit he can fight in because he doesn't have his

764
00:34:51,039 --> 00:34:53,559
powers anymore. That was kind of at the time. They

765
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:55,719
kind of were going back and forth on the script,

766
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,480
and I think Kevin Smith actually ended up coming in

767
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:00,480
at some point looking at the script and being like,

768
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,960
you guys are out of your minds, Like this is

769
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:05,559
the stupidest thing I've ever read. This does not fit

770
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:08,159
with the character of Superman at all, And so they

771
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:10,480
brought him in and then he started.

772
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: To develop the Death of Superman Live, the Death.

773
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,679
Speaker 3: Of Superman Lives, and this just sounds like the most

774
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,400
insane And what's funny to me is, you know that

775
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,159
was the one where like Nicholas Cage was going to

776
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:24,039
be Superman, yeah, and Tim Burton was going to direct,

777
00:35:24,199 --> 00:35:25,800
and I want to say, they were going to have

778
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,320
just crazy stories. And what's funny to me is that

779
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,000
John Peters was one of the producers even back then,

780
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,880
and like he had this whole idea of, well, we

781
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,079
got to have like these crazy creatures, and we want

782
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,960
Superman fighting, yes, giant spiders. We want Superman fighting like

783
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:46,519
giant mechanical spiders. And and Brainiac and Christopher Walken is

784
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:50,199
going to be Brainiac and all this just crazy stuff. Well,

785
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,000
you know, and and a lot of that got shot down,

786
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:53,480
it never got made. But if you went to go

787
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:56,519
see Wild Wild West just a few years later, you

788
00:35:56,679 --> 00:35:59,000
had giant spiders. So he clearly got his you know,

789
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,360
his spider fetish, you know, got worked out through Wild

790
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,519
Wild West. But so it's funny to me to look

791
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:06,559
at Man of Steel's success. I know, yeah, you know,

792
00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:08,519
if you can go from Superman to Wild Wild West.

793
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,039
But it's funny to me to see Man of Steel

794
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,039
and see that list of all right, who are the

795
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:17,320
producers for Man of Steel? John Peters, Okay, so.

796
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: I've got a kind of origin story on Man of Steel. Now, John,

797
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,360
you're from Illinois. You're in the Illinois area, I mean

798
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,079
you're in the Chicago area, right, Yeah, yeah, So did

799
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:29,400
you know that they were shooting Man of Steel in

800
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,639
the various towns around that they were doing that?

801
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:34,559
Speaker 3: I did, and actually was I was trying at one

802
00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:38,719
point to make a trip down there because I knew

803
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,639
the town that they were filming it in, and it's

804
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:42,719
far enough way, it's a few hours away from where

805
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,960
I am, and there were times where I was like,

806
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:46,199
I just I want to get down there and I

807
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,800
want to see it. Because I actually had a chance

808
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,440
another teacher friend of mine and we were extras in

809
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:54,039
the dark night, and so we got to be in

810
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:56,840
downtown Chicago. We spent most of our day in kind

811
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,159
of like one of the upper floors of some building

812
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,840
that was down I think by LaSalle Street in Chicago,

813
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,719
where they were filming one of the scenes, and we

814
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,719
actually were extras. I think all of our scenes where

815
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,039
you could actually see us got cut, but we were extras.

816
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,480
You know, story of my life. They won't hire me

817
00:37:11,559 --> 00:37:13,719
after I trip over stuff. They won't leave me in

818
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,559
the movie. But yeah, we got to be extras in

819
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,320
the kind of funeral procession scene where the Joker is

820
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000
disguised as one of the police officers that's going to

821
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:24,519
you know, fire the salute shots, and so we were

822
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:26,440
there for that scene. We were extras on the sides.

823
00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:28,480
We were supposed to be people that were panicking on

824
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:31,239
the sides as the Joker was running away and as

825
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,159
he turned and ran away, he ran right in front

826
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:34,800
of us. So that was a lot of fun. And

827
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,920
being able to see, as somebody who loves movies, being

828
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,679
able to be on the set and see how the

829
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,960
whole thing works. I was just as enthralled with that

830
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,719
in between time where they weren't shooting anything, like how

831
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,559
stuff was getting set up, how they were working with

832
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:50,320
the natural light of a cloud came by, you know,

833
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,400
Christopher Nolan started swearing because he knew that his timetable

834
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,360
was off, but you know, just being able to see

835
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,280
that in person. So when I found out that they

836
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,920
were going to be filming I think it was in Illinois.

837
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,480
When I found out, I was like, you know what,

838
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:04,960
I want to see this and I don't remember why.

839
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:06,920
I remember having some plans to do that and it

840
00:38:07,039 --> 00:38:08,760
just never it never materialized.

841
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: The story and by the time this episode comes out,

842
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:18,639
we will have done the Gladiator Versus Brave Heart episodes.

843
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:24,159
And so after Gladiator, Russell Crowe filmed a movie called

844
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:27,119
Proof of Life and it was also filmed over in

845
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:29,880
the UK. And he's got a son in the movie,

846
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,760
and part of the movie involves a rugby game. They

847
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,159
go to Stowe Boarding School to film this rugby scene

848
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:40,880
and they're really playing rugby and there's one player out

849
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,920
there that he sees that it's just lighting up the

850
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,199
field and he's really impressed with him. And then once

851
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,079
they're done with their filming and the game's over, Russell

852
00:38:48,119 --> 00:38:51,559
Crowe is standing by himself and this young rugby player

853
00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:54,760
comes over to him and starts talking to him and

854
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,519
doesn't say anything about rugby, but just says, hey, you know,

855
00:38:57,599 --> 00:38:59,960
I'm considering being an actor and I just want to

856
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:04,039
to ask you about that. And so once they finish

857
00:39:04,159 --> 00:39:07,360
filming Proof of Life, Russell Crowe is making this kind

858
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,440
of care package for the kid who played his son

859
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:14,119
in the movie and includes an autographed gladiator poster. And

860
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:15,639
as he's doing it and he thinks, you know what,

861
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,199
I'm going to do one for that rugby player that

862
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,079
came over and talked to me and was a nice guy.

863
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,079
So he sends him something that says a journey of

864
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:26,440
a thousand miles begins with one step. And so this

865
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:29,360
rugby player gets this thing and for the next several

866
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:34,400
years will work in London, bartending in London and Jersey

867
00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:37,079
and then go to La for a few months to

868
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:41,039
try to get into movies and not be successful and

869
00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:43,760
come back and bartend some more until he earns enough

870
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,599
money to go back to la again. And that's his

871
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:52,039
life until twelve years later, and Russell Crowe is working

872
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:56,480
out next to this guy in Naperville, Illinois, and he

873
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,599
Russell keeps looking at him and says, do I know you?

874
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:04,599
And Henry Cavill says, do you remember going to the

875
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:08,639
stowboarding school in the UK? And Russell says, yeah, I do,

876
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,840
And he goes, do you remember a kid coming to

877
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,280
ask you about acting?

878
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:14,639
Speaker 3: He goes, I do.

879
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: He says, what did I tell you? Henry says, well,

880
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,199
you said it pays really well, but they treat you

881
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,199
like poop. And Russell Crow goes, how are you, Henry?

882
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:28,920
It's a good to see.

883
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:32,639
Speaker 3: Well. I remember, like one of my one of my

884
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,320
favorite movies is The Counter Bandy Cristo, but Henry Cavill

885
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,719
is the Sun in that movie, and I vividly remember

886
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,400
at the time two thousand and two looking at that

887
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,599
and going, you know, that kid could play Superboy. That

888
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,280
would be a really good you know, if they could

889
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,480
just get he's got the face like it's a very

890
00:40:48,559 --> 00:40:51,719
similar to a Christopher Reeve kind of face. So they

891
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,480
should make a Superboy TV show movie whatever with that kid.

892
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: Henry Cavill was in good shape, but wasn't in Superman shape,

893
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,840
and so he trained with the same guys from the

894
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,920
Jim Jones facility that had trained the guys from three hundred,

895
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:08,800
Zack Snyder's other movie. You know, all of the guys

896
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,039
in three hundred looked like bodybuild and show.

897
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,039
Speaker 3: He didn't want any kind of digital touch ups. He

898
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:17,800
didn't want anything like he he was like, you know

899
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,360
what part of Yeah, He's like, you know what if

900
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,679
this movie is about me as a character, testing my

901
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,800
limits and figuring out, well, how powerful can I become?

902
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,440
Like what do I need to work at this? I

903
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:31,079
thought that was amazing that he just said, you know what,

904
00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:32,800
I'm not going to do any of these other tricks

905
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,599
that some people might do to bulk up for these kinds.

906
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,239
This is going to be oh naturale I.

907
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: Heard about mate.

908
00:41:38,039 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: He got ripped up for this movie, obviously really really cut,

909
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,159
and they shot all of the shirtless stuff first so that,

910
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:47,519
you know, out of consideration, and then as soon as

911
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:50,039
that was done, Zack Snyder bought him a pizza and.

912
00:41:50,440 --> 00:42:01,119
Speaker 1: A gallon of ice cream. Okay, so this is a

913
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:03,440
good segue. I think into the actors, and I think

914
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,079
first actors that we got to talk about are Henry

915
00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:09,360
Cavill and Christopher Reeve. So Henry Cavill, I think did

916
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,119
a good job at being Superman. Christopher Reeve was Superman.

917
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,960
Yes he was and always will be in my heart Superman.

918
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:22,840
I don't have anything bad to say about Henry Cavill's performance.

919
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,039
And I think this may largely have to do with

920
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:27,519
the nostalgia idea that we bring up from time to time,

921
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,519
but I think that it probably even goes beyond that,

922
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,920
because as they had looked at Christopher Reeve passed him

923
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,559
up and started looking at bigger actors and bigger stars,

924
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,519
and kept coming back to him because there's just something

925
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:48,320
about Christopher Reeve that makes you love him like I

926
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,519
don't know what it is and I can't. It's not

927
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:55,880
a definable thing, he just Okay. So the actor himself

928
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,119
put it this way. He says, when Superman says I

929
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:04,320
fight for truth, justice and the American way, a normal

930
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,119
person would snicker, but he means it right. And Christopher

931
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:13,599
Reeve played that perfectly. You were like, yeah, yeah, the

932
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:16,280
American Way. Yeah, that's right, which I mean you got

933
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,559
to think nineteen seventy eight that, I mean, there was

934
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:21,800
a there was a lot of upheaval in the in

935
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,000
the years preceding that that the idea of saying, you know,

936
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:28,440
Superman fights for the American Way would have gone south bad.

937
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:31,880
But he pulled it off. He I mean, he puts

938
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,119
the flag back on the White House in nineteen eighty one.

939
00:43:34,559 --> 00:43:38,360
He made people proud to be American again. I think

940
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,039
that Chris Reeve is kind of like the Lagosi in Dracula.

941
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: It's the first time you get to taste the Superman character,

942
00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:48,000
or at least it was for me, right, and so

943
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:52,000
that just kind of semented what my Superman is. Yeah,

944
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,320
you know, I don't know, John, where you with Chris

945
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,559
Reeve and Henry Cavick.

946
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, there's a reason why I think

947
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,760
I think the Superman, the Christopher Reeves Superman has been,

948
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,239
has shown up in other places and has influenced so

949
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,440
many other things. Is it's just it's the iconic portrayal

950
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,079
of Superman. He kind of embodies the qualities that you

951
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:16,880
would expect from a Superman. In all the performances I've

952
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,400
ever seen him in, he's always genuine, he's always charming.

953
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,320
He is I mean, he's a tall guy. So you've

954
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,440
got someone who is an imposing physical figure, even if

955
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,119
he's not even if he's not bulked up, he's an

956
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:32,960
imposing physical figure. And he's kind of I don't want

957
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,840
to call him a gentle giant, but at the same time,

958
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,000
he's kind of. He's he's got all those qualities about him.

959
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:41,559
And I think when you look at what makes a Superman,

960
00:44:41,639 --> 00:44:43,920
if if you're going to be Superman, and if you're

961
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,760
going to be you know this this character that is

962
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,000
supposed to be kind of infallible when it comes to

963
00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:52,920
your optimism and your you know, your your generosity and

964
00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:55,519
kindness towards other people. I think you get somebody that

965
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:57,400
embodies all of those things. And I think that's what

966
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,920
Christopher Reef did. I think that's why you have a

967
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:02,800
show like Smallville. When Smallville did everything that they were

968
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,360
doing for the Superman mythology, that's why they brought him in.

969
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,159
I think that's why they tied so much of their

970
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,880
mythology to those movies and to you know, to that

971
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:16,000
Krypton and you know, you brought in Terrence Stamp as

972
00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:18,000
the voice of Darrell, you brought you actually brought in

973
00:45:18,119 --> 00:45:20,760
Christopher Reeve, you brought in Margot Kidder, you know, all

974
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:26,400
those things. Because for an entire generation, that was your Superman.

975
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:28,400
I can look at Henry Cavill and could be like, well, Okay,

976
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,039
that was the guy that was in Count of Money, Cristo,

977
00:45:30,199 --> 00:45:31,880
and he was in Superman, and he was Man of

978
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,039
Steel and he did this, and he was in the

979
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:36,280
Tutor's TV Show and you know, I know a bunch

980
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,119
of things he's been in. But the moment I look

981
00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:40,800
at Christopher Reeve, that Superman, you know, in terms of

982
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,679
Henry Cavill, his Superman is good. I really like his

983
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,960
Clark Kent. In fact, I like his Clark Kent better

984
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:49,199
I think than I liked the Christopher Reeve Clark Kent.

985
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,920
Now that's that's right, and that's yeah. And that's me

986
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,840
looking at it from an adult perspective, because as a kid,

987
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,280
I was like, oh, Clark Kent's funny. It's hilarious. But

988
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,000
over the years, as I've read more comic books, as

989
00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:06,719
I've read more stories and I've seen the TV shows

990
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,840
like Smallville and some of the other iterations. Is you've

991
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,039
got a Clark Kent that he doesn't have to put

992
00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:15,239
on quite as much of a show. He doesn't have

993
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,440
to be nerdy, he doesn't have to be a bumbling OAF.

994
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,519
Speaker 1: He's the same guy like Clark Kent as Superman with

995
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:24,559
Henry Cavill. They're the same. It's it is the Clark

996
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:28,159
Kent story and Clark Kent's discovery of who he is

997
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,400
without any kind of idea that I need to have

998
00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:35,760
an alterna identity. His whole life has had to keep

999
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,760
his power as a secret, and it just plays into

1000
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:39,519
that whole idea.

1001
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: What's interesting is in the last couple of months in

1002
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,280
the Superman comics, Superman came out, had a press release

1003
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:45,599
and said, Hey, I just want to let the entire

1004
00:46:45,639 --> 00:46:48,800
world know I'm Clark Kent and I'm married to Lois Lane,

1005
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,760
and so in the comics he has revealed that to

1006
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,199
the world because he spent the last couple of months

1007
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,800
in the comics being like, you know what, I always

1008
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,719
tell people, I'm fighting for truth and justice in the

1009
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,960
American way, but I'm lying to people all the time

1010
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,119
when I have this, you know, these glasses on, and

1011
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,000
I'm pretending to be somebody else that's not very truthful.

1012
00:47:05,159 --> 00:47:07,079
So he made the decision. He's like, you know what

1013
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:08,880
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. We'll see

1014
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,000
how it goes, but I want to embody that truth.

1015
00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:12,559
And so he did that. So that'll be kind of

1016
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:15,480
interesting to see how that all plays out in the comics.

1017
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,119
But it kind of goes along. You've seen the progression

1018
00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:21,320
for years where there's much less of a difference between

1019
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,840
that Clark and that Superman persona. So yeah, I mean,

1020
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,079
I really like Henry Cavill's Clark Kent. I do still

1021
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:29,760
like Christopher reeve Clark Kent as well, but I think

1022
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,639
just comparing the two, Christopher Reeve is much more of

1023
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,960
the Superman that I think of when I think of Superman,

1024
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,119
and Henry Cavill maybe did a little bit of a

1025
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:39,559
better job at the Clark Kent that I want to see.

1026
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:45,199
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about Lewis. Okay, So in Superman movies,

1027
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,840
we had Margot Kidder and in Man of Steel we

1028
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,760
had Amy Adams. I'm gonna go to that for Margot Kidder,

1029
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:52,159
real quick.

1030
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 2: Okay, before okay, here's the thing with her people kind

1031
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,360
of I know how I feel about her sex appeal.

1032
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:00,719
It's not great.

1033
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: I feel weird you're just saying those two words in

1034
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,800
the same sentence. But you know what, if you go

1035
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,239
back to Superman one, she's kind of cute. She's she's

1036
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,000
a pretty lady.

1037
00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:13,519
Speaker 2: She's she's attractive. Yeah, I mean she had done Playboy.

1038
00:48:13,639 --> 00:48:15,519
I mean you know, I mean, they don't put ugly

1039
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:16,360
people in Playboy.

1040
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, google search.

1041
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 2: But she did such a good job with the character,

1042
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:28,719
particularly for me, the scene at the end of Superman

1043
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,239
two where she's sobbing, Yeah, and she's selling. Not only

1044
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,400
is she crying, but she's been crying all night.

1045
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:35,639
Speaker 1: You know.

1046
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: It's it's the great sadness realization of I can't express

1047
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,960
my feelings. I can't be in this relationship. It's not

1048
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,079
going to work. That whole scene was wonderful.

1049
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,679
Speaker 1: I thought, Right, it's a little weird that it happens

1050
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:53,239
on like the morning after the first night, but yes, otherwise, yes, I.

1051
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,119
Speaker 2: Can't wait to dive into the superkiss here in a

1052
00:48:55,159 --> 00:48:58,840
few But for me, Margot Kitner did did a great

1053
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,880
job with what she had some personal circumstances caused her

1054
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,800
to look less appealing as the series went on, Right,

1055
00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:11,360
but you know that I liked her.

1056
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, she she was. She was great because right off

1057
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:18,199
the bat, she's got this kind of Catherine Hetburn asque

1058
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,039
tough girl reporter. You know, her interactions with Perry White.

1059
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,599
She she knows she's number one in the show. She

1060
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,320
knows she's the bomb, and so, yeah, I really dug

1061
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,760
that about her. And then you juxtapose that with how

1062
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,199
she turns into this kind of awkward high school girl

1063
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,960
whenever she meets Superman on the balcony for the first time.

1064
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: I don't know I like her, I don't. Okay, I'm

1065
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,800
just gonna say this. There are not many women in

1066
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,239
this world that I would give up the ability to

1067
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,719
fly to be with. Okay, Margot Kidder is definitely not

1068
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,559
on that list. No, Lois Lane is not on that list.

1069
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: No, I don't. Yeah, that's that's tough.

1070
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, every man I know would love to the ability

1071
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:01,840
to fly.

1072
00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: I say, I don't even still the day, I still

1073
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,960
don't know why he gave it up. We still don't know.

1074
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,000
He didn't have to and she didn't ask him to. Yeah, Okay,

1075
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:15,199
so Amy Adams. Amy Adams kind of has the same

1076
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,320
type of thing as Christopher Reeve does, where she to

1077
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:23,199
me is automatically likeable, like you just it. She she

1078
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,320
comes in and she's tough, tough in a different kind

1079
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,559
of way. But I mean, we're keeping this radio clean,

1080
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:33,280
so I can't say my favorite first line. But if

1081
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,519
we're done measuring these, then then we can move on.

1082
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,679
And I loved her tough attitude and I loved how

1083
00:50:41,159 --> 00:50:43,519
they played off of that of she's got some gumption,

1084
00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:46,159
she's got some toughness about her, and she has that

1085
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,320
same attitude with Barry White of hey, I'm the number

1086
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,920
one around here and don't mess with me.

1087
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:52,639
Speaker 3: I like it.

1088
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: But again, she can be vulnerable, and she's just a

1089
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,079
very nice looking waiting Yeah.

1090
00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: I think for me between the to Lois Lane's it

1091
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,400
kind of comes to you. Guys have already kind of

1092
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,199
mentioned a little bit. Is you know as a kid,

1093
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,360
I wasn't thinking about a whole lot of stuff. I

1094
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,239
just you know, this Margot Killer. She was the lowest

1095
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,840
lane that was in the movie. I'm like, Okay, that's

1096
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,280
lowest line. But you know, having seen several iterations of

1097
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,559
Lois now in TV shows, comic books, cartoons, whatnot. You know.

1098
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,599
I think it comes down to again, when I see

1099
00:51:22,639 --> 00:51:26,360
Margot Kitterer for a generation, she was Lowest Lane Amy Adams.

1100
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,400
Though when I look at it in terms of a character,

1101
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:30,840
Margot Kidder had that kind of that toughness, you know,

1102
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,800
she had some of that tenacity that you would expect

1103
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,320
from a female reporter. But when it really comes down

1104
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,039
to it in terms of a character, like you know,

1105
00:51:38,119 --> 00:51:40,880
what if if somebody likes Superman, somebody who's supposed to

1106
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,239
have an unflappable sense of character and kindness and all

1107
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,599
these different things, I cannot realistically see him falling for

1108
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,039
the personality of the Margot Kidder Lois Lane. I could

1109
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:54,440
see him falling for the personality of the Amy Adams

1110
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,119
Lowest Lane. Right. Absolutely no, She's not only is she

1111
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,760
fiery and tenacious and all of those things that you

1112
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,760
would have to be, but she's also kind. She's also

1113
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,280
she seems smart and generous. She's smart, yeah, and I

1114
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,960
just don't and she doesn't treat him like crap.

1115
00:52:11,519 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: The Margot kid or Lowis Lane falls in love with

1116
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:19,159
Superman and almost in lust with Superman and treats Clark

1117
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,400
Kent like crap and disregards him throughout the movie like

1118
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,239
there's no inkling whatsoever that she has any feelings beyond

1119
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,280
friendship for Clark Kent and Man of Steel. Lois Lane

1120
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,880
falls in love with Clark Kent. She doesn't fall in

1121
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,320
love with Superman. I mean, she's met him and has

1122
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:40,239
seen his powers briefly. But it is his story as

1123
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,679
Clark Kent about why he has to remain quiet about

1124
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,480
his powers that moves her, and it is and it's

1125
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:53,079
his sacrifice later on, and that one is Superman that

1126
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,679
I think causes her to fall in love with him.

1127
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,559
Is this understanding of where he is. And to me,

1128
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,480
that's a much better romantic story then Oh, I'm enamored

1129
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:05,920
by a superhero and kind of losing control myself.

1130
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:07,559
Speaker 3: Well, and I almost don't want to take it to

1131
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:10,039
this kind of extreme. And I'm going to say this,

1132
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:12,079
but I'm not really calling her this. It's almost like

1133
00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:14,360
Margot Kidder Lewis Lane is a gold digger. You know,

1134
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,000
she sees somebody with power and she's like, oh my god.

1135
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:18,960
And then even when he says things like yeah, you know,

1136
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:21,400
I never lie, and she's like are you kidding? Really,

1137
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,800
that's ridiculous. Everybody lies. And whereas Amy Adams one of

1138
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,320
my favorite, I think the indication of just how she

1139
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,519
feels about this man is when she's sitting down across

1140
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:33,360
the table from him and he's got the handcuffs on,

1141
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,679
and she's like, why did you let them handcuff you?

1142
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:38,719
And he's like, well, you know, if it helps him

1143
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,920
feel better, And just the little smile that she gives

1144
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,840
him at that point, it's like she loves his humility,

1145
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,039
Like she knows what he's capable of, she knows the

1146
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:48,199
power that he's that he's got, but he's sitting there

1147
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,400
in handcuffs and she I mean like that, you can

1148
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,000
see the look on her face, and just that little

1149
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,599
hint of a smile that she gives. It's like you

1150
00:53:54,679 --> 00:53:57,039
can tell she's falling in love with this guy because

1151
00:53:57,079 --> 00:53:57,519
he's humble.

1152
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:06,559
Speaker 2: All right, well, let's talk about for me, one of

1153
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:10,320
the most interesting characters is Zod. So Terrence Stamp is

1154
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,599
General Zod in Superman one and two. You know, and

1155
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,480
you compare him to Michael Shannon, who is Zodd and

1156
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:17,079
Man of Steel.

1157
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:19,519
Speaker 1: What do you guys think on that one? So Terrence

1158
00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:22,519
Stamp took some recruiting, just like many of the actors

1159
00:54:22,679 --> 00:54:25,119
whenever that first movie was coming out, because the idea

1160
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,159
of being a superhero having a superhero movie was not

1161
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,960
exciting to anybody. But as it turned out, Richard Donner

1162
00:54:33,079 --> 00:54:38,960
found out that Stamp had been studying transcendental meditation. Stamp

1163
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:41,519
just so that if anybody doesn't know the history, he's

1164
00:54:41,639 --> 00:54:45,719
obviously an incredible actor. But he had he had gotten nominated,

1165
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,719
maybe won the Oscar for Billy Budd way back in

1166
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,559
the sixties, and then what is kind of a I

1167
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:53,400
don't know that they had People magazine back then, but

1168
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,119
he was kind of the guy who was always out

1169
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:59,320
on the town and doing disco and living the actor life.

1170
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 3: He yeah, he liked a boogey, so he must have.

1171
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,039
They must not have needed their wardrobe department to bring

1172
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:08,840
his zod costume. Maybe he already had that.

1173
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: For he supplied all three of the criminals with their

1174
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:16,840
nightlife costume. And so anyway they got him on. He

1175
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:20,320
said that he did not want to give layers to

1176
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,440
this character, like he just wanted him to be a

1177
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:29,880
straightforward evil. You know, no complexity, nothing. This is just

1178
00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:35,800
a bad guy. I thought, I loved zod in one

1179
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,800
and two. He has some funny lines, like.

1180
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,119
Speaker 2: When the police siren pulls up or the police car

1181
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:42,119
pulls up, and he's like, the red light reminds me

1182
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:45,039
of the red crypton sun. I love it, except for

1183
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:46,679
the irritating noise, you know.

1184
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I like him. I do think that Michael

1185
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:55,360
Shannon does a good job.

1186
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:59,199
Speaker 2: In fact, there's one line in Man of Steel when

1187
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,840
they're carrying a way and they're on Krypton and he's

1188
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,679
looking at Superman's mom and he's like, I will find him.

1189
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,800
I will find him, and he starts speaking with more

1190
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,440
and more conviction, and that last that last thing where

1191
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,679
he says I will find him, and I'm like, man,

1192
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:19,159
that one.

1193
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: Kind of shook me.

1194
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: That that dude looked intense. So I think they did

1195
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:26,440
both both did a good job. I'm more partial to

1196
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:29,639
Terrence Stamp just just because, but I thought Michael Shannon

1197
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:30,000
was great.

1198
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: Where are you at?

1199
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,559
Speaker 3: Well, actually the you mentioned that line that I will

1200
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:36,960
find him. There was a podcast that I used to

1201
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:38,480
listen to a lot and it was kind of actually

1202
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,519
what what got me started and wanting to do a podcast.

1203
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:43,800
It was called geek Out loud and the host his

1204
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,360
name Steve and he lives in Georgia and he used

1205
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,079
to have a radio show. He was actually on like

1206
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,239
on the air radio, and uh, he would kind of

1207
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:53,679
have some of the people that would listen to him

1208
00:56:53,679 --> 00:56:55,599
would send in fake commercials sometimes kind of like what

1209
00:56:55,639 --> 00:56:57,719
you'd see on Saturday Night Live, where they come up

1210
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,920
with a fake ad for something and so round of

1211
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:02,320
the time that Man of It might run. About the

1212
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,559
time that Man of Steel came out, I put together

1213
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:08,559
a fake commercial for his radio show, and it was,

1214
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,519
oh god. It was called like General Zod's Love Codex,

1215
00:57:13,079 --> 00:57:15,719
and it was supposed to be like this, it's supposed

1216
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,119
to be like this dating service, and you know, I

1217
00:57:18,199 --> 00:57:20,519
had you know, I had my sister like pretend like

1218
00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:22,280
she was one of the people calling into the dating

1219
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,679
service and and all this other stuff. But the final

1220
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,599
line of the dating service like if there's someone out

1221
00:57:27,639 --> 00:57:29,519
there for you, And then we had Zods screaming, I

1222
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:36,320
will find him. That's great man now, I and some

1223
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,440
of this too. I I can't, you know, say what

1224
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:41,159
I said before about having watched these movies with my dad,

1225
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:43,920
you know, Superman too. This was this was something that

1226
00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:47,639
just I cannot separate the experience of watching this with

1227
00:57:47,719 --> 00:57:50,320
my dad and how much my dad loved Superman too.

1228
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,119
And I think this was this became the vocabulary of

1229
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:56,679
our house. You know, if I did something and it

1230
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,639
was it was something stupid or something my dad had

1231
00:57:59,639 --> 00:58:03,039
told me to do, his phrase was wrong again, Zudd,

1232
00:58:04,119 --> 00:58:07,480
you know it was that was constant in our house,

1233
00:58:07,719 --> 00:58:09,400
or you know, he would you know, he'd be playing

1234
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:10,960
around with us. He'd be like, no, he's like, you

1235
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:11,960
got to listen to me, Neil.

1236
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: At last, he didn't say, why do you say this

1237
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:15,559
to me when.

1238
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,719
Speaker 3: You know I will kill you for it? You know

1239
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,480
what I think he might have the first time I

1240
00:58:21,519 --> 00:58:25,920
asked to borrow the car, you know, So, I mean

1241
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,840
it's again, It's like it's like Christopher Reeves Superman. This

1242
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:32,880
zod Is is larger than life. Like he's he's very

1243
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,599
two dimensional. So yes, it's not he's your he doesn't

1244
00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:40,679
you know, it's your mustache twirling villain. It's your you know,

1245
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,320
it's you mentioned Dracula before. It's like your old school

1246
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,079
nineteen thirties Dracula. Like there's no complexity to this character.

1247
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:49,199
It's just a bad guy. It's a classic bad guy

1248
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,239
for the sake of being a bad guy, and I

1249
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,480
think in a movie of this kind, that's what makes

1250
00:58:53,559 --> 00:58:57,119
him great. Now having said that, Michael Shannon, that brings,

1251
00:58:57,239 --> 00:58:59,800
he brings the complexity Like I when I saw that

1252
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:01,840
and I saw his take on Zod, I'm like, you

1253
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,559
know what a oh they're doing. Zod is the villain

1254
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,719
why they already did it right the first time, But

1255
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,800
now watching watching this one, actually I might have to

1256
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,679
take that back a little bit. He is a phenomenal Sod.

1257
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:18,320
There's no way around this. The fact that he brought

1258
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:22,519
to this movie a motivation that had you almost I

1259
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:24,840
mean you were you were conflicted, and I think that

1260
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,599
was what was great about it was they wanted kal

1261
00:59:27,639 --> 00:59:30,679
El to be conflicted, like, oh, well, I've never known

1262
00:59:30,719 --> 00:59:32,679
any of my people. Well now my people are here

1263
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,199
and they don't seem to be such great people, but

1264
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,440
you know, Kryptonian. We got to keep the Kryptonian thing going.

1265
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:42,320
So maybe I should be maybe I should be aligning

1266
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,760
with these people, maybe I shouldn't. And there's that there's

1267
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,480
that kind of push and pull in the movie, and

1268
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:49,599
I think that just that backstory of Zod being like, look,

1269
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:53,280
I was raised to defend my people and on Krypton,

1270
00:59:53,519 --> 00:59:55,599
whatever you're raised to be, that's what you are, and

1271
00:59:55,679 --> 00:59:58,480
you don't deviate. You know, that's built into the fabric

1272
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:01,239
of our culture and our society. You don't deviate from that.

1273
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,960
You don't change from that. And I think his Zod

1274
01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:08,519
bringing that to such a desperation when it gets to

1275
01:00:08,599 --> 01:00:10,400
the point at the end of the movie where you

1276
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,639
know a lot of his people are now gone, and

1277
01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:15,960
he even says that he's like, I am here to

1278
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,679
defend my people, and now because of you, I have

1279
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,760
no people. And then I remember taking my soul right,

1280
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,719
You've taken my reason for being. And I remember watching

1281
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,840
that and just thinking, as I'm watching this in the theater, going, oh,

1282
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:32,639
dear Lord, you have left this man desperate and without

1283
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,480
anything else to lose. Now he's going to be like

1284
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:37,559
even worse than he ever was before because you have

1285
01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:39,800
pushed him to the edge up until that point. You

1286
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,599
could almost watch it. He's one of those villains where

1287
01:00:41,639 --> 01:00:45,119
you're like, all right, so he's a bad guy, but like,

1288
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:47,159
I get why he's doing it. I wouldn't do it,

1289
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,679
but I get why he's doing it. And I think

1290
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,679
that was just that was an amazing take on the

1291
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,760
character of Zod, and so I think part of that

1292
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:57,840
it's a little bit tough because it is it's a

1293
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,519
little bit of an apples and oranges kind of thing.

1294
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:02,480
Is there's always a good place in time for a

1295
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:07,000
good two dimensional, mustache twirling, cackling villain, but there's also

1296
01:01:07,039 --> 01:01:09,519
a good time and a place for wow like this

1297
01:01:09,679 --> 01:01:11,400
is a villain like this is the kind of villain

1298
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:12,840
you can sink your teeth into.

1299
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: So the you know, you look at the motivations in

1300
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,039
both of the stories, the Superman one and two story,

1301
01:01:20,599 --> 01:01:24,559
Zod's motivation is tyranny. I mean, he wants to rain

1302
01:01:24,719 --> 01:01:27,519
on high from the beginning. That's what gets him in

1303
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:30,760
trouble in the first place, is that he's he's trying

1304
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,920
to take over control of Krypton. And then ultimately when

1305
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,119
he gets to Earth and Scream two, that's his whole

1306
01:01:36,239 --> 01:01:39,480
goal is to take it over. And then when he finds,

1307
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,480
you know, when he finds out that the son of

1308
01:01:41,559 --> 01:01:45,119
Dreaul lives, then he's he's bent on having his revenge.

1309
01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:48,360
But these are all very vice motives. I mean, there's

1310
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,119
nothing redeeming about any of the motives that he has.

1311
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,280
But with the way they wrote Zod and Man of Steel,

1312
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,400
Krypton has got this kind of brave new world type

1313
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:04,280
of system where people are no longer birthed naturally but

1314
01:02:04,639 --> 01:02:09,639
created in a big chamber, and each person is created

1315
01:02:09,719 --> 01:02:13,559
with a specific job in mind. And Zod's specific job

1316
01:02:14,079 --> 01:02:17,719
is to protect Krypton in the Kryptonian people, and he's

1317
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:23,239
he follows the leadership until such time as he realizes, Hey,

1318
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:28,039
they're now bureaucrats and they're causing the death of the

1319
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:31,519
people that it is my duty to defend. And to

1320
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:35,559
see that kind of passion behind it, I had to go, well,

1321
01:02:35,679 --> 01:02:37,920
you know, what if I was in this situation, what

1322
01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:42,760
if I had no familiarity with this other race of people.

1323
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:47,400
My one job was to protect my people. I mean,

1324
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:48,960
you got to think of it like your family.

1325
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:49,199
Speaker 2: You know.

1326
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: If I could bring back my family from annihilation and

1327
01:02:54,639 --> 01:02:56,719
what it took was getting rid of a family that

1328
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,400
I didn't know, could I see myself doing that?

1329
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe go.

1330
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:04,119
Speaker 2: I read a whole article about how General Zod is

1331
01:03:04,119 --> 01:03:05,679
actually the good guy in Man of Steel.

1332
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,719
Speaker 1: All right, everybody that does it for part one of

1333
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,000
the podcast, please join us next week we will have

1334
01:03:13,159 --> 01:03:16,519
John back and we will be discussing the remainder of

1335
01:03:16,639 --> 01:03:20,079
Superman one and Superman two versus Man of Steel. Don't

1336
01:03:20,119 --> 01:03:23,199
forget to go check out the Thirty Somethings podcast, and

1337
01:03:23,559 --> 01:03:26,840
as always, thank you for joining us. All music, images

1338
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,199
and movie clips are used for the purposes of commentary

1339
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,239
and education in conjunction with the fair Use agreement under

1340
01:03:32,239 --> 01:03:33,280
the US copyright law.