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<v Speaker 1>Italy beckons us with history, food, art and of course

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<v Speaker 1>its beautiful landscapes. And it is the landscapes of Italy

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<v Speaker 1>that we turn to today. From the breathtaking coastlines, fiery volcanoes,

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<v Speaker 1>beautiful lakes and spectacular mountains, Italy really does have an

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<v Speaker 1>unfair advantage when it comes to natural beauty. In this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm joined by author Ed Cutler to learn how Italy

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<v Speaker 1>is the biodiversity powerhouse of Europe and why you should

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<v Speaker 1>get out into nature to experience Italy at its finest.

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<v Speaker 2>Ciao a tutti and benvenuti to Untold Italy, the travel

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<v Speaker 2>podcast where you go to the towns and villages, mountains

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<v Speaker 2>and lakes, hills and coastlines of bella Italia.

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<v Speaker 3>Each week your.

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<v Speaker 2>Host, Katie Clark, takes you on a journey in search

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<v Speaker 2>of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato, and of course,

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming of Italy

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<v Speaker 2>and planning future adventures there, you've come to the right place.

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<v Speaker 3>Buongiorno, benvenuti friends.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Untold Italy podcast, where we help travellers

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<v Speaker 1>move beyond the checklist so they really feel part of Italy.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the Untold Italy way. I'm your host, Katie Clark,

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<v Speaker 1>and on today's episode, we are getting a history and

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<v Speaker 1>geography lesson about how Italy was formed over millions of

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<v Speaker 1>years and why it is unique in Europe and around

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<v Speaker 1>the world for its incredible diversity. I'm delighted to introduce

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<v Speaker 1>you to the author of a new book about Italy's

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<v Speaker 1>natural landscapes and how they shaped its civilization and culture.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll ask Ed.

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<v Speaker 1>To introduce himself to you in his own words in

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<v Speaker 1>a minute, but I'll preface that part of the conversation

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<v Speaker 1>by saying that, like many of us, he fell in

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<v Speaker 1>love with the country as a child or young adult,

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<v Speaker 1>and his passion for Italy has grown much deeper over

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<v Speaker 1>the years. Ed shares some of his favourite places and yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they are very untold. So listen on if you are

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<v Speaker 1>inspired by nature and Italy, of course.

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<v Speaker 4>Benvenuto, Ed.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome on to the Untold Italy podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's wonderful to have you here and to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about your new book that's both in English and Italian.

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<v Speaker 3>Amazing. And it's called This Beautiful Country.

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<v Speaker 1>Ed, would you mind sharing with our listeners a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about yourself and what inspired you to write the book?

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<v Speaker 4>Sure, sure. Well, I'm British. I grew up in England and.

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<v Speaker 5>Studied in Scotland all my life.

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<v Speaker 4>I studied art history at university in Edinburgh.

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<v Speaker 5>And I've had a sort of a love affair with

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<v Speaker 5>Italy since quite young, since being brought to Venice when

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<v Speaker 5>I was about eight, when my dad was in a

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<v Speaker 5>conference there. And I've been slightly kind of obsessed with

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<v Speaker 5>Italy ever since. And I lived in Venice for a

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<v Speaker 5>year after university and then went back to London and

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<v Speaker 5>then I met my wife there.

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<v Speaker 4>She's Italian, from Rome.

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<v Speaker 5>And we moved to Rome in 2009 when she was

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<v Speaker 5>pregnant with our first son, thinking that it would just

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<v Speaker 5>be a good place to be. I was offered a

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<v Speaker 5>job in a gallery in Rome and stuff. And then

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<v Speaker 5>we ended up living in Milan for four years and

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<v Speaker 5>then moved back to Rome. And then I bought my

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<v Speaker 5>little farm where I am here in Maremma in southern Tuscany.

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<v Speaker 4>About 12 years ago. And....

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<v Speaker 5>I have worked in the art world, I have worked

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<v Speaker 5>in green technologies, and I've been sort of moving towards

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<v Speaker 5>more environmental work in recent years. And then the book

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<v Speaker 5>came about, really was a sort of a realization of

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<v Speaker 5>an awakening when during COVID, we were here, all the

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<v Speaker 5>family on the farm for those months of lockdown. And

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<v Speaker 5>my son and I had this incredible moment We were

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<v Speaker 5>exploring the woods and walking everywhere.

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<v Speaker 4>We were very lucky in lockdown. We were lucky to

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<v Speaker 4>be here.

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<v Speaker 5>And I appreciate that many people were less fortunate.

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<v Speaker 4>But for us, it was amazing.

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<v Speaker 5>And one day in early April, we were down by

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<v Speaker 5>this little river, sort of seasonal river that runs the

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<v Speaker 5>bottom of the valley that divides our farm from the village.

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<v Speaker 5>And we were poking around in there and We never

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<v Speaker 5>really found much down there in the past, but that

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<v Speaker 5>day my son spotted something in the water. It was

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<v Speaker 5>like a kind of a dark shadow shape and it

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<v Speaker 5>looked kind of reptilian. And we managed to get it

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<v Speaker 5>into a glass jar and identified it as this salamander.

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<v Speaker 5>It's called the spectacled salamander. And it is, it's a

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<v Speaker 5>wonderful creature. It's completely endemic to Italy. It's found nowhere else.

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<v Speaker 5>There's actually two versions of it, one in the north,

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<v Speaker 5>one in the south, but only on.

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<v Speaker 4>The Apennine chain.

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<v Speaker 5>And in those days of lockdown, we had so much

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<v Speaker 5>time to sort of wander and read and go down

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<v Speaker 5>rabbit holes.

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<v Speaker 4>And that was the starting point.

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<v Speaker 5>It was the fact that it was endemic that really

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<v Speaker 5>caught my interest, that it was only found here in Italy.

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<v Speaker 5>And that just started me on a process of finding

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<v Speaker 5>out how many other creatures are endemic to Italy.

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<v Speaker 4>And it was really shocking.

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<v Speaker 5>It was just totally, you know, I felt like I

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<v Speaker 5>knew the country, like so many of us feel that

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<v Speaker 5>they know Italy from one way or another. But really,

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<v Speaker 5>it suddenly felt like I actually didn't know anything about

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<v Speaker 5>the country at all. And I didn't know why these

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<v Speaker 5>species only found here. There was, you know, nearly 5,000

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<v Speaker 5>endemic faunal species in Italy. I mean, to put that

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<v Speaker 5>into perspective, in Britain, we've only got, I think you

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<v Speaker 5>can count them on one or two hands maximum, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>species that are genuinely endemic.

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<v Speaker 4>So that started this period of research and writing. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>we were originally, we were going to turn it into

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<v Speaker 4>a TV series.

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<v Speaker 5>And so I was in development with a production company

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<v Speaker 5>in Bristol for a couple of years to create a

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<v Speaker 5>kind of, you know, an Attenborough style blue chip nature doc.

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<v Speaker 5>But the finances kind of dried up and I'd done

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<v Speaker 5>so much work.

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<v Speaker 4>And I just thought I've got to, I've got to

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<v Speaker 4>write a book now. So that's how it is, and

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<v Speaker 4>that was a couple of years ago, and now here

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<v Speaker 4>we are.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, maybe the book comes first.

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<v Speaker 4>Beautiful.

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<v Speaker 3>It's been absolutely beautifully designed, actually, that cover.

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<v Speaker 1>I love how you've combined your interests in art, history,

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<v Speaker 1>and nature as well.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>So this little salamander just sparked a whole journey and

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<v Speaker 1>it's taken you all over Italy, hasn't it?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, completely, completely.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, there are endemic creatures spread all throughout Italy.

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<v Speaker 5>You'll find them from the Alps all the way down

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<v Speaker 5>to Sicily. And actually, it's further south and on the

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<v Speaker 5>islands that you get the really interesting, unique creatures. I'd

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<v Speaker 5>like to add that it was an Australian paleontologist, quite

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<v Speaker 5>a famous guy called Tim Flannery, who really.

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<v Speaker 4>got my interest, built it up even further. He wrote

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<v Speaker 4>a beautiful book.

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<v Speaker 5>Some years ago called Europe, The First Hundred Million Years,

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<v Speaker 5>Tim Flannery. And he's quite well known, I think, in Australia.

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<v Speaker 5>And he covers the salamander in his book and amongst

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<v Speaker 5>many other species and stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>So big shout to him.

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<v Speaker 5>And he's written me a really nice blurb on the

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<v Speaker 5>book as well.

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<v Speaker 4>But yeah, it was wonderful.

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<v Speaker 5>It took me all to lots of places on the

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<v Speaker 5>map that I hadn't yet filled in.

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<v Speaker 4>Calabria being one of the most notable, I would say.

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<v Speaker 5>I was quite well-travelled in Italy already, but this gave

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<v Speaker 5>me an excuse to go to some really, really wild spots. Luckily,

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<v Speaker 5>Italy still has these wilderness areas, these bits which humans

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<v Speaker 5>have touched. I think what's just amazing is the fact

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<v Speaker 5>of having the highest levels of biodiversity in Europe, which

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<v Speaker 5>Italy does. It contains a third of all the faunal

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<v Speaker 5>species that exist in Europe, half of all the plant species.

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<v Speaker 5>This has happened, I mean, it's still got all of that,

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<v Speaker 5>despite centuries, thousands of years of civilisation, of clear-cutting the forests,

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<v Speaker 5>of building roads everywhere and draining the swamps and everything

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<v Speaker 5>that's happened. In spite of that, it's held on to

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<v Speaker 5>this remarkable biodiversity. Levels of biodiversity which, you know, in

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<v Speaker 5>Britain we could only dream of having, which we're now

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<v Speaker 5>having to work really, really hard to bring back, to actively,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, bring back nature. Italy's still got it. And

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<v Speaker 5>that's thanks to its topography, its landscape.

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<v Speaker 3>I was going to ask why you think it is,

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<v Speaker 3>because it has its fair share of industrialisation, right?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's one of the biggest industrial countries in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do feel like Italians have a very deep,

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<v Speaker 1>innate sense connection to nature that I didn't really appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>until I started going there more regularly and you know

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<v Speaker 1>I have friends that were like okay well let's go

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<v Speaker 1>up in the mountain let's go for a walk let's

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<v Speaker 1>you know get outside into nature and it was then

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<v Speaker 1>that I started to really appreciate yes they love that

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<v Speaker 1>country and especially their local countryside definitely and maybe you

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<v Speaker 1>It's because of that, that they try to preserve it,

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<v Speaker 1>or they're a bit more, you know, aware of what

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<v Speaker 1>the impact is of large scale industrialisation.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I would agree with that.

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<v Speaker 5>I think they do have a deep attachment to the land.

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<v Speaker 5>It's changing, the demographics are changing. And, you know, 75%

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<v Speaker 5>of the population now live in one of the major cities.

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<v Speaker 5>So the rural areas are declining and emptying of people.

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<v Speaker 4>But you don't have to go very far back.

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<v Speaker 5>In Italian's history when far more people were much more

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<v Speaker 5>connected to the land, were working there, were farming. The

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<v Speaker 5>industrialization of Italy happened fairly late and fairly rapidly. And

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<v Speaker 5>because of the landscape itself, because of the topography of Italy,

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<v Speaker 5>there's actually very few places where industrialization can happen, where

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<v Speaker 5>heavy industry can happen, and where intensive agriculture can happen,

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<v Speaker 5>for example. So, I mean, that's really just restricted to

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<v Speaker 5>the Po Valley, of course, and bits of Puglia. And

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<v Speaker 5>now along the coastal areas that.

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<v Speaker 4>Have been drained.

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<v Speaker 5>But there's not that much. It all gets concentrated into

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<v Speaker 5>a few areas, I would say.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like really to do with the fact you've

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<v Speaker 1>got that big mountain range going through the middle, right?

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<v Speaker 1>So the Apennines that give you that biodiversity.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And most people never go there, right? And that's

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<v Speaker 3>the crazy thing.

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<v Speaker 4>It's such a shame, really, because there's so much. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>I know that.

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<v Speaker 5>For visitors coming from afar, from Australia or America, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>you come to Italy, obviously you've got to see Rome, Florence, Venice, Naples.

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<v Speaker 5>But I don't love mass tourism, I've got to admit.

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<v Speaker 5>And I think a lot of places, and I've lived

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<v Speaker 5>in Rome now for 12 years off and on, and

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<v Speaker 5>the centre of Rome becomes quite difficult, becomes really quite choked.

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<v Speaker 4>And I understand the pressures, why people want to be there.

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<v Speaker 4>But I would urge... people to discover the interior.

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<v Speaker 5>The entire Apennine chain is just filled with remarkable places

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<v Speaker 5>and towns and landscapes and villages. And you'll find a

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<v Speaker 5>kind of a hospitality and a tourism needs to be

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<v Speaker 5>spread out. At the moment, it's sort of heavily concentrated

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<v Speaker 5>in a few areas and people are suffering in those areas,

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<v Speaker 5>let's say from the pressures.

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<v Speaker 4>On infrastructure and stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>And It would be so much better if we could

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<v Speaker 5>somehow kind of spread the load a bit and get

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<v Speaker 5>people to think, well, this time, you know, I want

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<v Speaker 5>to go and see.

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<v Speaker 4>Mantua, Padova. I want to go and see Reggio. I

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<v Speaker 4>want to go and see Gubbio.

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<v Speaker 5>And all of these remarkable places that you can visit

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<v Speaker 5>and have a different vision of Italy.

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<v Speaker 4>And go to Abruzzo. Go to Abruzzo.

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<v Speaker 5>Go and see the bears and the wolves and the chamois.

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<v Speaker 5>You can have one of the best nature holidays ever.

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<v Speaker 4>Ever there.

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<v Speaker 3>It's incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of my favourite memories is from Tuscany when

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<v Speaker 1>we took our kids, they were very small, and my

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<v Speaker 1>husband and I went for a little walk after dinner

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<v Speaker 1>and it was sunset and then.

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<v Speaker 3>All these lights started appearing in the bushes. And I

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<v Speaker 3>was like, oh, that's nice.

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<v Speaker 1>They put fairy lights. Then I realised that they were,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, fireflies. You know, I'd never seen them before

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<v Speaker 1>because we don't have them here in Australia. And I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, wow, this is incredible, you know. It was

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<v Speaker 1>such a show. I felt like they'd put it on

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<v Speaker 1>just for me.

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<v Speaker 4>They're amazing. I actually, I wrote an article.

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<v Speaker 5>I've got a sub stack and I publish things there

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<v Speaker 5>occasionally about species or landscapes.

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<v Speaker 4>And yeah, and I wrote a.

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<v Speaker 5>Piece about the luchule because this year there was a

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<v Speaker 5>particularly strong showing of them. I think it was after

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<v Speaker 5>a wetter winter. They still had moisture down. I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>the conditions were amazing. We had this light show for weeks.

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<v Speaker 5>But yeah, you know, that's just sort of, It's one

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<v Speaker 5>of those memories of youth. I got a lot of

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<v Speaker 5>comments on the article writing about it, how people remembered

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<v Speaker 5>them from their youth and they haven't seen them for

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<v Speaker 5>years because they live in the city now.

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<v Speaker 4>But yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 5>If you're just stuck in those cities, you're going to

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<v Speaker 5>miss those spectacular moments and seeing the stars, perhaps.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, 100%.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, one place that shocked me actually was in the

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<v Speaker 1>Dolomites because it's actually quite heavily built up there, like

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of villages and things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>So I was going, oh, we're going in the mountains,

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<v Speaker 3>there's going to be all these stars.

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<v Speaker 1>Because even here in Melbourne where I am, and I

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<v Speaker 1>live right in the city, like, we've got this magical

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<v Speaker 1>arrangement here with this with the southern cross because you

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<v Speaker 1>can still see the stars even in the middle of

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<v Speaker 1>the city yeah not like a massive uh you know

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<v Speaker 1>like a milky way but yeah i'm always searching out

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<v Speaker 1>places where i can go and see the stars so

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<v Speaker 1>where would you think the best place is obviously not

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<v Speaker 1>the dolomites i was.

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<v Speaker 4>A Well, actually, it's quite interesting.

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<v Speaker 5>I've been part of this sort of light pollution discussion

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<v Speaker 5>for a while because it's one of the things that

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<v Speaker 5>really annoys me.

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<v Speaker 4>Italy actually suffers from some.

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<v Speaker 5>Of the worst light pollution in the world per capita.

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<v Speaker 4>It's on a sort of par with South Korea or something.

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<v Speaker 5>So if you look at the night map of Italy,

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<v Speaker 5>you'll see that, I mean, the whole of the north

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<v Speaker 5>of Italy is just lit up like a Christmas tree

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<v Speaker 5>and And actually, there's very few really genuinely dark patches left.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm pleased to say I live in one of them.

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<v Speaker 5>The Comune of Manciano nearby was declared the darkest sky

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<v Speaker 5>in Italy a year or two ago. So we still

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<v Speaker 5>can see them. And north of us, it's sort of

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<v Speaker 5>between Grosseto and Siena is one of the least populated

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<v Speaker 5>parts of Italy and Europe, I think.

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<v Speaker 4>And this is forest. So there's less light pollution there.

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<v Speaker 3>Time for a quick break, shorter than your morning espresso.

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<v Speaker 1>If you've been dreaming of experiencing Italy the way it's

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<v Speaker 1>meant to be lived, slow, unhurried and with locals who

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<v Speaker 1>open their homes and hearts, our Untold Italy tours are

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00:15:12.149 --> 00:15:16.769
<v Speaker 1>now open for 2026 and beyond. We handle every detail

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00:15:17.129 --> 00:15:19.309
<v Speaker 1>so you can just show up and soak in the magic.

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<v Speaker 1>Spots are limited and many fill months in advance. Check

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<v Speaker 1>the link in the show notes or visit untolditalytours.com for details.

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<v Speaker 5>The issue really is actually something, it's one of these

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<v Speaker 5>modern problems which we could solve quite easily. We've got

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<v Speaker 5>the technology to do it, you know, and especially Italy,

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<v Speaker 5>which has got a very professional lighting industry, lighting design.

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<v Speaker 4>And world leaders in this. it wouldn't be hard.

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<v Speaker 5>And we've even got regional laws saying about light pollution,

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<v Speaker 5>that your lights, your street light, things have to be

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<v Speaker 5>pointing down. We're in the middle of the Perseid meteor

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<v Speaker 5>shower at the moment. And we're going to have an

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<v Speaker 5>eclipse of the sun, I think, in a couple of days.

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<v Speaker 5>So it's an amazing time to be watching the heavens

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<v Speaker 5>if you can. But Italy does have a real lack

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<v Speaker 5>of genuine dark sky. The example is New Zealand. New

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<v Speaker 5>Zealand's aiming to be an entirely dark sky nation, I believe.

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<v Speaker 4>That's the objective, which is incredible.

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<v Speaker 5>The International Dark Sky Association, I've been in touch with them.

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<v Speaker 4>I know everyone here, but we.

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<v Speaker 5>Would love to get a dark sky park initiated here

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<v Speaker 5>if possible.

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<v Speaker 4>But I mean, again, the places you've got to go are.

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<v Speaker 5>The least inhabited ones. So the interior, Abruzzo, Calabria, in

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<v Speaker 5>the middle of Sardinia, it's amazing.

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<v Speaker 4>And here in Marema. So that's the place to see

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<v Speaker 4>the Sardes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was one part of your book and you

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<v Speaker 1>talk about this lake trout that's barely changed for millions

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<v Speaker 1>of years and that's in a really interesting part of

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<v Speaker 1>Abruzzo too.

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<v Speaker 3>Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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<v Speaker 4>There's a few examples of this.

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<v Speaker 5>The one you're thinking of is the Posto Fibreno trout,

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<v Speaker 5>which is actually, it's on the border of Lazio and Abruzzo.

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<v Speaker 4>In this little lake, and it's a salmonid.

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<v Speaker 5>And there was a geological event six million years ago

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<v Speaker 5>or so, the Mycenaean salinity crisis, when the entire Mediterranean dried.

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<v Speaker 4>Up, which is amazing.

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<v Speaker 5>Gibraltar and And Africa fused together. It created a barrier.

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<v Speaker 5>All of the Atlantic waters stopped entering the Mediterranean. And

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<v Speaker 5>over the course of half a million years or so,

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<v Speaker 5>the Mediterranean dried up. So you had the rivers, the

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<v Speaker 5>road and everything like pouring into the Mediterranean basin, huge

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<v Speaker 5>waterfalls and stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>Pretty amazing event.

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<v Speaker 5>But this had a big impact on Italy's freshwater fish.

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<v Speaker 5>It isolated a lot of the areas and fish got

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<v Speaker 5>stuck in one area and then never joined up again

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<v Speaker 5>with uh to rivers and things so that particular trout

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<v Speaker 5>was they did some tests on it i think in

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<v Speaker 5>the 90s and discovered that it was this part of

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<v Speaker 5>this ancient lineage of salmonids that was just completely unique

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<v Speaker 5>and it's lucky it's in a very beautiful place it's

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<v Speaker 5>fed by some cast springs from the apennines uh.

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<v Speaker 4>Beautiful crystal clear cold water all all.

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<v Speaker 5>Summer it's probably a good place to be right now

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<v Speaker 5>actually But there's lots of other examples of freshwater fish

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<v Speaker 5>in Italy's rivers that have remained isolated for extended periods

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<v Speaker 5>of time and evolved in their own way.

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<v Speaker 3>So interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>And in that area, I know you mentioned, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's the Torino River, which is like the cleanest in Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>I was putting that on a little list of places

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<v Speaker 1>that I wanted to go.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh, the Torino, you must go. I mean, that is magical.

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<v Speaker 5>You can't quite believe.

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<v Speaker 4>what.

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<v Speaker 5>You're seeing really just these sort of these beautiful crystalline mortars.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, it's all sort of blues and greens and

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<v Speaker 5>you can see right the way down to the bottom.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, it's, it's remarkable. You can canoe down it.

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<v Speaker 5>I did that with my kids some years ago and yeah, it's,

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<v Speaker 5>it's just remarkable again, fed by these waters, uh, these

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<v Speaker 5>cast waters, these travel underground for, for years and then

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<v Speaker 5>emerge there. And it's very short bit of river, uh,

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<v Speaker 5>absolutely to do. If you combine that with the Rocca

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<v Speaker 5>di Calascio, the beautiful castle at the top that was

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<v Speaker 5>used in The Name of the Rose, and then there's

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<v Speaker 5>a village called Sextantio, and this incredible Albergo di Fuso.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's in a remarkable area.

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<v Speaker 5>Unfortunately, the story of the Torino ends badly, and that's

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<v Speaker 5>why I use it as this sort of contrast, because

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<v Speaker 5>at the end of the Torino, then you have this

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<v Speaker 5>notorious industrial site that that in the early 20th century

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<v Speaker 5>was being used to produce sort of arsenic and chemical weapons,

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<v Speaker 5>mustard gas and stuff for use in the First World War.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was called the Mount Edison plant.

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<v Speaker 5>And unfortunately, yeah, the environmental controls and things were not

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<v Speaker 5>really in place in the early days of the heavy industry.

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<v Speaker 5>In the early 2000s, it was declared Europe's largest toxic

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<v Speaker 5>illegal dumping ground. And so, unfortunately, the waters of the

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<v Speaker 5>Torino end at this disaster and where then the pollution

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<v Speaker 5>goes on into the eternal Pescara River. It's one of

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<v Speaker 5>Europe's cleanest rivers. It is said to be the cleanest

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<v Speaker 5>river least polluted river in Europe, ends at one of

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<v Speaker 5>Europe's worst. So it's really sad. But that's just a

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<v Speaker 5>sort of story of Italy in many ways.

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<v Speaker 1>So everyone, Ed's book goes through a series of chapters

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<v Speaker 1>and it's really like the elements, the chapters of the elements.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I guess one of my favourite ones, because

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<v Speaker 1>I do love a volcano, is around fire. Yeah. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's never difficult to be impressed by the force of

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<v Speaker 1>nature that is a volcano. But, like, in Italy they

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00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:01.000
<v Speaker 1>do have this sense of what nature– destroys, it also

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<v Speaker 1>gives back. And so can you talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about the volcanoes of Italy and why they're so important

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<v Speaker 1>to the landscapes?

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, they are crucial for understanding Italy because as

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<v Speaker 5>a sort of a geological element, I mean, they have

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<v Speaker 5>created so much of the landscape. And I would argue

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<v Speaker 5>they gave the Romans, for example, everything they needed to

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<v Speaker 5>build their civilization, the building materials, literally the stones.

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<v Speaker 4>Their sources of drinking water, their hot springs.

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<v Speaker 5>They fed their legends and their myths and the fertility

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<v Speaker 5>of the land, of course.

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<v Speaker 4>I'll give a quick run through of why there are

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<v Speaker 4>volcanoes in Italy.

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<v Speaker 5>The creation of the Apennines is a fairly young mountain chain.

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<v Speaker 5>They sprung up around 30 million years ago or started

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<v Speaker 5>being pushed up when Corsica and Sardinia snapped off France

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<v Speaker 5>and swung around into position and squashed up against the

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<v Speaker 5>African plate and then the Apennines were created. But they

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<v Speaker 5>were pushed up on one side, and then on the

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<v Speaker 5>Tyrrhenian side, where I am, they stretched open. So that

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<v Speaker 5>stretched the mantle, and that created the weak spots where

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<v Speaker 5>lava was able to emerge and rise to the top.

427
00:22:11.210 --> 00:22:13.470
<v Speaker 5>It was a process that started, let's say, about 10

428
00:22:13.470 --> 00:22:16.329
<v Speaker 5>million years ago, when the first ones appeared. The earlier

429
00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:18.990
<v Speaker 5>ones up here in the Tuscan archipelago, Capraia and others.

430
00:22:20.430 --> 00:22:22.950
<v Speaker 5>I live behind in the shadow of one called Monte Amiata.

431
00:22:23.029 --> 00:22:26.779
<v Speaker 5>That's literally our big mountain around us. That fell silent

432
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:31.680
<v Speaker 5>about 600,000 years ago. Most of these volcanoes were really

433
00:22:31.779 --> 00:22:34.059
<v Speaker 5>active during the Ice Age in the last two million

434
00:22:34.099 --> 00:22:36.299
<v Speaker 5>years or so. And so if you'd been able to

435
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:40.549
<v Speaker 5>visit this place during the Ice Age, it would have been,

436
00:22:41.109 --> 00:22:44.829
<v Speaker 5>I guess, like Lord of the Rings kind of landscape.

437
00:22:45.450 --> 00:22:48.750
<v Speaker 4>Fire and ice and kind of amazing.

438
00:22:48.809 --> 00:22:51.990
<v Speaker 5>So this chain of volcanoes starting from where I am,

439
00:22:52.029 --> 00:22:55.250
<v Speaker 5>going all the way down to Rome, down to Naples,

440
00:22:55.289 --> 00:22:56.539
<v Speaker 5>and continuing all the way along.

441
00:22:56.910 --> 00:22:58.900
<v Speaker 4>You have volcanoes all the way along there.

442
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:02.140
<v Speaker 5>And the ones around Rome, you had three to the

443
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.140
<v Speaker 5>north of it and one, the Colli Albani, just to

444
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.579
<v Speaker 5>the south of it, that just completely remodeled that entire

445
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.759
<v Speaker 5>landscape over a million years.

446
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:11.849
<v Speaker 4>I would say here, I mean, obviously.

447
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:16.029
<v Speaker 5>Etna gets all the, gets all the press because it's

448
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.390
<v Speaker 5>always active and there's lava flows.

449
00:23:18.150 --> 00:23:19.210
<v Speaker 4>And it is amazing.

450
00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:21.289
<v Speaker 5>And it really, in terms of, I had the pleasure

451
00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:26.369
<v Speaker 5>of meeting and talking to some fantastic volcanologists during the

452
00:23:26.569 --> 00:23:29.690
<v Speaker 5>writing of it. I really didn't, didn't have the knowledge.

453
00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:34.019
<v Speaker 5>So I had to go and ask people. And yeah,

454
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.119
<v Speaker 5>Etna is the one that, I mean, they all just

455
00:23:36.140 --> 00:23:39.740
<v Speaker 5>sort of cloud over and just sort of, ah, They

456
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:42.000
<v Speaker 5>get very kind of emotional talking about it in many

457
00:23:42.019 --> 00:23:46.119
<v Speaker 5>ways because it is just a remarkable volcano by all standards.

458
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:49.119
<v Speaker 5>But I would argue that, again, coming back to your

459
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.339
<v Speaker 5>question about places to visit in Italy, then the extinct

460
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:57.180
<v Speaker 5>ones are just as fascinating in my mind. Monte Amialta

461
00:23:57.519 --> 00:23:59.599
<v Speaker 5>up here behind me is just amazing.

462
00:23:59.619 --> 00:24:01.519
<v Speaker 4>The villages around it produces the.

463
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:05.279
<v Speaker 5>Best chestnuts in the world from the forest there. There's

464
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.789
<v Speaker 5>one called Rocca Monfina, which I went to as a research,

465
00:24:08.809 --> 00:24:10.910
<v Speaker 5>which is between Rome and Naples.

466
00:24:11.789 --> 00:24:13.450
<v Speaker 4>It was a huge volcano.

467
00:24:13.609 --> 00:24:16.430
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it was massive, probably the largest of all

468
00:24:16.470 --> 00:24:18.130
<v Speaker 5>of Italy's mainland volcanoes.

469
00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:22.029
<v Speaker 4>And that fell silent, I think, about 100,000 years ago.

470
00:24:22.049 --> 00:24:25.759
<v Speaker 4>I sometimes get those dates wrong, but it's amazing.

471
00:24:25.779 --> 00:24:30.900
<v Speaker 5>And then it preserves this incredible fossil site, which is unique, really.

472
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.690
<v Speaker 5>Most volcanoes destroy all evidence of the part. But this one,

473
00:24:34.710 --> 00:24:40.269
<v Speaker 5>it records these tracks made by ancient humans, 300,000 year

474
00:24:40.329 --> 00:24:44.950
<v Speaker 5>old footprints preserved in this lava rock. It's really startling.

475
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:47.539
<v Speaker 5>I didn't believe, I don't know why, I just didn't

476
00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:49.440
<v Speaker 5>believe that it could be true. And I went there

477
00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:53.819
<v Speaker 5>and saw it for myself. And it really is footprints,

478
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.960
<v Speaker 5>like boot prints in fresh snow. They were the oldest

479
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.269
<v Speaker 5>footprints in the world until some ones in South Africa

480
00:25:00.289 --> 00:25:01.329
<v Speaker 5>were discovered a few years ago.

481
00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:04.029
<v Speaker 4>But that's a great site. No one goes there.

482
00:25:04.109 --> 00:25:07.390
<v Speaker 5>Torre Piccili is the name of the village, and it's

483
00:25:07.529 --> 00:25:08.369
<v Speaker 5>really worth a visit.

484
00:25:08.470 --> 00:25:10.269
<v Speaker 4>It kind of makes the hairs stand up on the

485
00:25:10.289 --> 00:25:11.009
<v Speaker 4>back of your neck.

486
00:25:11.710 --> 00:25:14.609
<v Speaker 5>The volcano story is endless, really, for Italy.

487
00:25:14.670 --> 00:25:17.509
<v Speaker 4>It's so important for understanding the nature.

488
00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:21.670
<v Speaker 5>I mean, a bit further south of Rocca Monfina, Montevultore

489
00:25:21.750 --> 00:25:23.950
<v Speaker 5>is the other one I loved in Basilicata.

490
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:25.579
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely beautiful.

491
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:30.119
<v Speaker 5>The lakes of Monticchio, it preserves one of the rarest moths.

492
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.579
<v Speaker 4>In the entire world there.

493
00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:34.019
<v Speaker 5>And also one of the great wines of Italy comes

494
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:38.119
<v Speaker 5>from there, the Alianico del Vultore, the Barolo of the South.

495
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.009
<v Speaker 5>It's just a fantastic, beautiful place to visit. And there's

496
00:25:42.029 --> 00:25:45.230
<v Speaker 5>a natural history museum in this monastery on the side

497
00:25:45.269 --> 00:25:46.930
<v Speaker 5>of the crater.

498
00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:50.970
<v Speaker 4>Lakes that is astounding. It's really, really beautiful. So the

499
00:25:51.009 --> 00:25:54.029
<v Speaker 4>volcanoes in so many ways are Italy's story.

500
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.180
<v Speaker 5>Part of its modern story, the creation of Italy.

501
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.000
<v Speaker 4>Without them, we wouldn't have.

502
00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:02.170
<v Speaker 5>All of these incredible benefits that we still get today,

503
00:26:02.250 --> 00:26:05.150
<v Speaker 5>the water, the fertility, the energy. And that's, of course,

504
00:26:05.490 --> 00:26:10.039
<v Speaker 5>a portion of our energy comes from heat sources deep

505
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.980
<v Speaker 5>down close to where I am in the Tuscan magmatic province.

506
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:18.559
<v Speaker 5>We've got Ladurello, which was the world's first geothermal power station.

507
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:18.900
<v Speaker 4>Very cool.

508
00:26:19.539 --> 00:26:21.980
<v Speaker 5>Remained the only one for about 40 years. Yeah, it's

509
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.640
<v Speaker 5>very cool. So there's a book just about Italy's volcanoes.

510
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.369
<v Speaker 4>To be honest. I could have kept on writing about

511
00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:32.109
<v Speaker 4>them and what they give us. But it is amazing.

512
00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:34.450
<v Speaker 4>And Etna, yeah, go to Etna at least.

513
00:26:34.589 --> 00:26:38.150
<v Speaker 5>And Stromboli and Vulcano and the Aeolian Islands.

514
00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:38.910
<v Speaker 4>They're amazing.

515
00:26:39.940 --> 00:26:40.579
<v Speaker 3>They really are.

516
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.019
<v Speaker 1>And I think the really great thing about volcanoes is that,

517
00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:46.500
<v Speaker 1>you know, as you mentioned, they've got the fertile land.

518
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:49.700
<v Speaker 1>They've made the land so fertile that whatever you grow

519
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:50.700
<v Speaker 1>there is going to be.

520
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.200
<v Speaker 3>Like, extra delicious.

521
00:26:52.220 --> 00:26:52.789
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

522
00:26:52.849 --> 00:26:55.950
<v Speaker 1>But some of the things, and I guess there's always

523
00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:58.710
<v Speaker 1>a strong connection to food wherever you are initially. You

524
00:26:58.750 --> 00:27:02.009
<v Speaker 1>can't get away from it in any way, shape or form,

525
00:27:02.049 --> 00:27:04.069
<v Speaker 1>which is fantastic. And I think that's why a lot

526
00:27:04.109 --> 00:27:06.150
<v Speaker 1>of people like to go. But one of the things

527
00:27:06.170 --> 00:27:07.930
<v Speaker 1>that I really love and I'm a little bit obsessed

528
00:27:07.950 --> 00:27:11.319
<v Speaker 1>with actually is the bitter greens. Yeah, I just love

529
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:13.660
<v Speaker 1>that and I'm always seeking them out. If they're on

530
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.180
<v Speaker 1>the menu, I'm having, I'll have two, like give me

531
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the chicoria now. And is there something around those particular

532
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:23.680
<v Speaker 1>vegetables or.

533
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.630
<v Speaker 3>They're not vegetables really, they're officially weeds.

534
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.369
<v Speaker 5>Aren't they? Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's really interesting.

535
00:27:30.410 --> 00:27:34.069
<v Speaker 5>I think it's actually the flavour of amarro, of bitterness.

536
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:39.529
<v Speaker 5>which is a really interesting subject because apparently throughout the world,

537
00:27:39.690 --> 00:27:43.490
<v Speaker 5>bitterness has been bred out of vegetables, has been taken

538
00:27:43.549 --> 00:27:48.170
<v Speaker 5>off the menu in most cases. But Italy preserves that

539
00:27:48.250 --> 00:27:51.710
<v Speaker 5>culture of bitterness on the palate. And it is something

540
00:27:51.730 --> 00:27:54.460
<v Speaker 5>that you have to train your palate to like. It's

541
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.619
<v Speaker 5>not something that children love automatically.

542
00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:57.940
<v Speaker 4>It comes with time.

543
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.019
<v Speaker 5>And actually, I think our brain is sort of wired

544
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.960
<v Speaker 5>to reject things that taste bitter because it's sort of

545
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:05.880
<v Speaker 5>associates it with being poisonous.

546
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:09.299
<v Speaker 4>But in Italy, I think there's a combination.

547
00:28:09.339 --> 00:28:13.519
<v Speaker 5>I think when times weren't as plentiful as today and

548
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:17.789
<v Speaker 5>hunger and starvation did really sort of stalk the land

549
00:28:17.849 --> 00:28:20.269
<v Speaker 5>for many, many years, people had to make use of

550
00:28:20.369 --> 00:28:21.450
<v Speaker 5>everything that grew here.

551
00:28:22.049 --> 00:28:24.970
<v Speaker 4>So really, if you go into.

552
00:28:26.150 --> 00:28:28.630
<v Speaker 5>Even our olive grove in the spring, you know, when

553
00:28:28.829 --> 00:28:31.630
<v Speaker 5>everything's shooting up, there are so many foods there which

554
00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:36.069
<v Speaker 5>we just completely overlook. And I think that those flavors

555
00:28:36.150 --> 00:28:38.470
<v Speaker 5>go back a long, long time. I think, you know,

556
00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:41.549
<v Speaker 5>you can go back to the monasteries. I'm sure the

557
00:28:41.609 --> 00:28:44.250
<v Speaker 5>Romans were foraging and eating most things. I'm sure they

558
00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:46.509
<v Speaker 5>had a deep knowledge of them and thought some were

559
00:28:46.529 --> 00:28:48.890
<v Speaker 5>better for you than others. I think it goes back.

560
00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:51.349
<v Speaker 5>I think the culture of that business goes back a

561
00:28:51.369 --> 00:28:54.839
<v Speaker 5>long way. And certainly with the distillation of the Amaro bitters,

562
00:28:54.950 --> 00:28:59.700
<v Speaker 5>the things like Fernet Branca and the whole galaxy of Amaros,

563
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:00.599
<v Speaker 5>which I love.

564
00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:03.319
<v Speaker 4>That goes back to the sort of time of the monasteries.

565
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.720
<v Speaker 5>That really goes back to the monks in wild mountainous

566
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:10.900
<v Speaker 5>places distilling the mountain herbs and coming up with these liqueurs,

567
00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:15.200
<v Speaker 5>which were obviously beneficial for the health and still are.

568
00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.190
<v Speaker 5>I think it's a really interesting subject, that, and that

569
00:29:19.250 --> 00:29:21.289
<v Speaker 5>food culture. And if you're, next time you're in Rome,

570
00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:24.309
<v Speaker 5>the best restaurant in Rome, the only restaurant in Rome,

571
00:29:24.329 --> 00:29:26.609
<v Speaker 5>in my opinion, is called Piatto Romano.

572
00:29:26.650 --> 00:29:29.890
<v Speaker 4>It's in Testaccio, the sort of southern bit of the city.

573
00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:33.319
<v Speaker 5>And there you can have the most, I think, the

574
00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:37.970
<v Speaker 5>best food in Rome now. And they do the foraged herbs,

575
00:29:38.490 --> 00:29:39.930
<v Speaker 5>the side dishes, the contorno.

576
00:29:40.700 --> 00:29:41.619
<v Speaker 4>It will blow your mind.

577
00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:45.119
<v Speaker 3>Back in a flash right after these messages.

578
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.400
<v Speaker 1>For daily travel tips and behind-the-scenes content from our tours,

579
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 1>make sure to follow us on Instagram at Untold Italy Tours.

580
00:30:00.980 --> 00:30:03.900
<v Speaker 3>I'll see you there. I go there often. That's where

581
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.190
<v Speaker 3>I go for my chikuwari.

582
00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:10.529
<v Speaker 5>You know, gratakuli and things like that, which means ass scratchers.

583
00:30:11.450 --> 00:30:14.289
<v Speaker 5>I think they're the flowers of something else, dandelions or

584
00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:14.890
<v Speaker 5>something like that.

585
00:30:14.970 --> 00:30:18.309
<v Speaker 4>But I love them. I'm trying to learn more about

586
00:30:18.369 --> 00:30:18.930
<v Speaker 4>where I am.

587
00:30:19.009 --> 00:30:22.039
<v Speaker 5>I've started eating and picking and foraging and doing little

588
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:25.599
<v Speaker 5>kind of veg salads and things with what I find here.

589
00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:26.819
<v Speaker 4>But there's so much more.

590
00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 5>There's so much that we overlook that we don't eat

591
00:30:30.579 --> 00:30:34.480
<v Speaker 5>anymore that would have fed and kept people alive for centuries,

592
00:30:34.579 --> 00:30:34.880
<v Speaker 5>I think.

593
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that's interesting as well when you think about

594
00:30:38.509 --> 00:30:40.930
<v Speaker 1>the concept of cucina povera and you do have that

595
00:30:41.529 --> 00:30:43.230
<v Speaker 1>cooking for a poor family.

596
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:45.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, situation in life.

597
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:47.180
<v Speaker 1>They had to really go and grab everything.

598
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:50.309
<v Speaker 3>And so it forced people to be really inventive, I guess.

599
00:30:50.630 --> 00:30:50.849
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

600
00:30:50.950 --> 00:30:55.410
<v Speaker 1>But they also have sweet things in the countryside in Italy.

601
00:30:55.430 --> 00:30:57.849
<v Speaker 1>And I was so surprised to learn that figs are

602
00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:00.170
<v Speaker 1>native to Italy because I, for some reason, I thought

603
00:31:00.190 --> 00:31:02.529
<v Speaker 1>they were from, you know, Persia or, you know, the

604
00:31:02.569 --> 00:31:03.849
<v Speaker 1>other side of the Mediterranean.

605
00:31:04.710 --> 00:31:06.099
<v Speaker 4>There is some debate about that.

606
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:09.140
<v Speaker 5>I've got it on pretty good authority from someone I

607
00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:13.220
<v Speaker 5>trust that we can be confident to call figs native.

608
00:31:13.339 --> 00:31:15.059
<v Speaker 4>I mean, they are native to the Mediterranean.

609
00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:20.309
<v Speaker 5>It is possible that they traveled, you know, with Phoenicians

610
00:31:20.390 --> 00:31:25.089
<v Speaker 5>or other settlers or during Neolithic times. But there seems

611
00:31:25.130 --> 00:31:27.630
<v Speaker 5>to be plenty of evidence that figs have been growing

612
00:31:27.670 --> 00:31:31.730
<v Speaker 5>here wild for, you know, at least 10,000 years or more.

613
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:34.500
<v Speaker 5>So I think it's fair to call them native. They're

614
00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:35.799
<v Speaker 5>native to the Mediterranean.

615
00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:37.019
<v Speaker 4>They grow everywhere.

616
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.059
<v Speaker 5>I've got them now fruiting in my garden. Now's my

617
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:44.059
<v Speaker 5>moment of figs. And I just love them. I want

618
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.039
<v Speaker 5>to grow more of them. But yeah, they've been part

619
00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:52.190
<v Speaker 5>of the foraged diet for a long time. And obviously

620
00:31:52.210 --> 00:31:55.089
<v Speaker 5>by the time of the Romans, they'd taken on, even

621
00:31:55.130 --> 00:31:58.430
<v Speaker 5>the Etruscans kind of held them up as a sort

622
00:31:58.470 --> 00:32:03.230
<v Speaker 5>of symbolic of health and fertility and everything. So yeah,

623
00:32:03.250 --> 00:32:05.690
<v Speaker 5>they've been part of the culture for thousands of years.

624
00:32:06.250 --> 00:32:08.990
<v Speaker 1>Pomegranates do they have the same connection or is that

625
00:32:09.009 --> 00:32:11.390
<v Speaker 1>something that's been I'm asking because I do love a.

626
00:32:11.369 --> 00:32:14.950
<v Speaker 5>Pomegranate I love a pomegranate too I have them and

627
00:32:15.049 --> 00:32:17.930
<v Speaker 5>I love them in uh we're usually eating them sort

628
00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:21.289
<v Speaker 5>of late September I think.

629
00:32:21.130 --> 00:32:22.950
<v Speaker 4>I need to be I need to check this I

630
00:32:22.970 --> 00:32:24.890
<v Speaker 4>would say that's.

631
00:32:24.670 --> 00:32:27.589
<v Speaker 5>More North African I would say it's Mediterranean but I'm

632
00:32:27.609 --> 00:32:29.400
<v Speaker 5>gonna have to look I'm going to have to look

633
00:32:29.420 --> 00:32:29.720
<v Speaker 5>that up.

634
00:32:29.789 --> 00:32:32.630
<v Speaker 4>I didn't even get to the pomegranates in the book.

635
00:32:33.349 --> 00:32:34.809
<v Speaker 1>I just put you on the spot. But I just

636
00:32:34.890 --> 00:32:36.890
<v Speaker 1>love them so much. Like anything with a fig and

637
00:32:36.910 --> 00:32:38.329
<v Speaker 1>a pomegranate, I'm happy.

638
00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:40.069
<v Speaker 4>Me too.

639
00:32:40.769 --> 00:32:43.650
<v Speaker 5>And almonds and pistachios and everything else like that that

640
00:32:43.730 --> 00:32:44.190
<v Speaker 5>you get.

641
00:32:44.369 --> 00:32:45.950
<v Speaker 4>I just love those combinations.

642
00:32:46.289 --> 00:32:47.269
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so good.

643
00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:51.009
<v Speaker 1>So I'm wondering, Ed, you know, like most people are

644
00:32:51.049 --> 00:32:55.170
<v Speaker 1>coming to Italy and they may not think to– go

645
00:32:55.329 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 1>and see some nature first. But if you could pick

646
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.900
<v Speaker 1>a few places where people could go and really experience

647
00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>this side of Italy that will maybe inspire them to

648
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.200
<v Speaker 1>go and explore some more, where would you send them?

649
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:10.660
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think quite an easy stop could be somewhere

650
00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:13.529
<v Speaker 5>like Pescaceroli, which is only about an hour and a

651
00:33:13.569 --> 00:33:16.269
<v Speaker 5>half from Rome, deep into Abruzzo.

652
00:33:16.289 --> 00:33:17.930
<v Speaker 4>It's a lovely town.

653
00:33:18.390 --> 00:33:23.309
<v Speaker 5>It's the sort of heart of the national park of Lazio, Abruzzo, Molise.

654
00:33:24.019 --> 00:33:30.539
<v Speaker 5>It's really well organized for excursions, for tours, for bear watching,

655
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:33.980
<v Speaker 5>for wolf watching, e-bike trips, everything like that.

656
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:35.640
<v Speaker 4>So it's a great, I mean, it's so easy to

657
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:36.920
<v Speaker 4>get to from Rome.

658
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.619
<v Speaker 5>And there you'll feel immediately in the sort of the

659
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:43.440
<v Speaker 5>heart of the Apennines, the heart of the sort of

660
00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:44.180
<v Speaker 5>wild Italy.

661
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.799
<v Speaker 4>So that's a great place to go.

662
00:33:45.819 --> 00:33:51.609
<v Speaker 5>I would also say that Palabria, I think for me,

663
00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:57.880
<v Speaker 5>It is so wild and beautiful and rugged and amazing.

664
00:33:57.970 --> 00:34:01.400
<v Speaker 5>And I think that where Basilicata meets Calabria there, the

665
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.900
<v Speaker 5>Polino National Park, which is Italy's largest national park, I

666
00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:07.519
<v Speaker 5>was blown away by that landscape. I think that was,

667
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:10.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm dying to go back and explore it some more.

668
00:34:10.940 --> 00:34:15.059
<v Speaker 5>There you've got some of Europe's oldest trees, the Bosnian pines.

669
00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:17.960
<v Speaker 4>And a completely wild landscape, but.

670
00:34:17.860 --> 00:34:22.110
<v Speaker 5>Also one where it hasn't been wrecked by pastoralism or

671
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:25.750
<v Speaker 5>anything like that. There's native cattle breeds there. You get

672
00:34:25.849 --> 00:34:30.090
<v Speaker 5>patchworks of forest and open pasture. So you get life

673
00:34:30.530 --> 00:34:34.130
<v Speaker 5>in total abundance. So Calabria, absolutely.

674
00:34:34.550 --> 00:34:38.590
<v Speaker 4>And then I would also argue Sardinia, away from Cala de.

675
00:34:38.510 --> 00:34:41.369
<v Speaker 5>Volpe and all the kind of the smart bits where

676
00:34:41.389 --> 00:34:43.630
<v Speaker 5>everyone goes on holiday and stuff, but actually like the

677
00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:47.829
<v Speaker 5>wild west coast areas of Sardinia is really worth checking out.

678
00:34:47.889 --> 00:34:50.369
<v Speaker 4>I found that beautiful, and the interior.

679
00:34:50.769 --> 00:34:52.590
<v Speaker 5>You're lucky enough to be able to sort of come

680
00:34:52.710 --> 00:34:55.090
<v Speaker 5>maybe a bit out of season, maybe May or June.

681
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.400
<v Speaker 5>That's the sort of time to see those places, and Abruzzo,

682
00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:02.360
<v Speaker 5>I would say, and the flowering, the wildflower meadows in

683
00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:06.019
<v Speaker 5>the Maiella National Park in Abruzzo again. Those places I

684
00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:10.969
<v Speaker 5>told you, the Tegino, is 100% worth checking out. Yeah,

685
00:35:11.010 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 5>that's just to name a few. And then there's plenty

686
00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:14.719
<v Speaker 5>of bits of the Alps. You've got the entirety of

687
00:35:14.739 --> 00:35:18.400
<v Speaker 5>the Alps. And rather than the Dolomites, and that's, again,

688
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:20.960
<v Speaker 5>that's suffering from over-tourism, particularly in the summer.

689
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.039
<v Speaker 4>And the Cinque Terre in Liguria is completely out of

690
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 4>control there.

691
00:35:25.699 --> 00:35:29.000
<v Speaker 5>There's so many other bits along the Alpine chain where

692
00:35:29.019 --> 00:35:33.260
<v Speaker 5>you could go. So Fruli, the Slovenian corner at the

693
00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:37.000
<v Speaker 5>far eastern end of that is just so... The Carnic Alps,

694
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:41.599
<v Speaker 5>they're beautiful, much less frequented. Where I was just last week,

695
00:35:41.619 --> 00:35:44.340
<v Speaker 5>the Bialese Alps, I loved it. There was no one there.

696
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:49.139
<v Speaker 5>And then, of course, the Maritime Alps, Necunio.

697
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:51.659
<v Speaker 4>You're blessed with so many places you can go, but it.

698
00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:56.289
<v Speaker 5>Is really worth having a bit of courage to say, no,

699
00:35:56.309 --> 00:35:58.369
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to Venice this time. I'm going to

700
00:35:58.409 --> 00:36:03.329
<v Speaker 5>go to Trieste and then off into the borders of Slovenia,

701
00:36:03.349 --> 00:36:04.530
<v Speaker 5>and there it's completely wild.

702
00:36:05.349 --> 00:36:08.219
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a very beautiful area. I really love that too.

703
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:09.579
<v Speaker 3>And it is so.

704
00:36:10.630 --> 00:36:13.190
<v Speaker 1>Great, because you can see the whole way that the

705
00:36:13.250 --> 00:36:14.849
<v Speaker 1>culture overlays with the nature.

706
00:36:14.869 --> 00:36:18.889
<v Speaker 3>So you're getting everything anyway. Yeah. Everything's inspired by each other.

707
00:36:19.030 --> 00:36:22.070
<v Speaker 1>And up in that area, like I love going to

708
00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:24.170
<v Speaker 1>those towns and everyone's got the winged.

709
00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:24.769
<v Speaker 3>Lion of Venice.

710
00:36:24.829 --> 00:36:25.110
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

711
00:36:25.130 --> 00:36:27.449
<v Speaker 3>You're still getting a little bit of Venice, but wherever

712
00:36:27.489 --> 00:36:27.780
<v Speaker 3>you go.

713
00:36:28.389 --> 00:36:29.880
<v Speaker 4>And even Sicily as well.

714
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:31.579
<v Speaker 5>You know, Sicily, if you can get it out of

715
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:34.739
<v Speaker 5>season and go to the Egadi Islands or somewhere like that,

716
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.539
<v Speaker 5>you know, Pantelleria I found was remarkable.

717
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:39.559
<v Speaker 4>I went there in the height of summer, but I'd

718
00:36:39.579 --> 00:36:43.840
<v Speaker 4>love to return. slightly out of season, somewhere like that.

719
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely.

720
00:36:46.179 --> 00:36:49.340
<v Speaker 1>Now, if our listeners can take one thing from your

721
00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.239
<v Speaker 1>book into their next Italian trip, what would you like

722
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:52.760
<v Speaker 1>them to do?

723
00:36:52.780 --> 00:36:54.070
<v Speaker 3>What do you think they should do?

724
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:58.829
<v Speaker 4>So we've mentioned those places. I would say, yeah, Abruzzo.

725
00:36:59.130 --> 00:36:59.710
<v Speaker 4>I would say.

726
00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:03.179
<v Speaker 5>You can still live with the seasons here, the seasonal rhythms.

727
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:07.860
<v Speaker 5>And so if you find yourself in Italy in the autumn,

728
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:09.960
<v Speaker 5>in October time, which I think is one of the

729
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:14.260
<v Speaker 5>best months, you know, to visit Rome, definitely October is

730
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.159
<v Speaker 5>the best month. But it is also the best time

731
00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.639
<v Speaker 5>to come up here, to come up to Monte Amiata.

732
00:37:19.659 --> 00:37:23.789
<v Speaker 5>And you've got the chestnut season. And go to the

733
00:37:23.829 --> 00:37:27.969
<v Speaker 5>Garfagnana Valley in Tuscany and see it in its sort

734
00:37:28.010 --> 00:37:29.170
<v Speaker 5>of autumnal splendor.

735
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.130
<v Speaker 4>And have the best chestnuts in.

736
00:37:32.110 --> 00:37:34.570
<v Speaker 5>The world, you know, roasted for you there, rather than

737
00:37:34.610 --> 00:37:38.050
<v Speaker 5>the kind of cheap imports and the street vendors in Rome.

738
00:37:38.909 --> 00:37:41.349
<v Speaker 4>Be bold come in the winter, if you like winter

739
00:37:41.389 --> 00:37:42.269
<v Speaker 4>sports as well.

740
00:37:42.309 --> 00:37:44.639
<v Speaker 5>But it's also like, for example, I lived in Venice

741
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:48.780
<v Speaker 5>for a year. And there was this brief moment between

742
00:37:48.940 --> 00:37:52.940
<v Speaker 5>New Year and Carnivale, the first weeks of January, when

743
00:37:53.179 --> 00:37:56.050
<v Speaker 5>suddenly there was no one in Venice. And you could

744
00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:58.489
<v Speaker 5>walk out at night and it was misty and foggy.

745
00:37:59.469 --> 00:38:02.230
<v Speaker 5>And suddenly you had the city all to yourself. And

746
00:38:02.289 --> 00:38:05.960
<v Speaker 5>so you get these moments when you can actually see

747
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.900
<v Speaker 5>Italy in its sort of true colours and it's stripped

748
00:38:09.980 --> 00:38:10.739
<v Speaker 5>of people.

749
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.059
<v Speaker 4>And there are just moments in the year when you

750
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:14.920
<v Speaker 4>can really see the true beauty of Italy.

751
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:18.090
<v Speaker 5>I know it's hard to do. People have their holidays

752
00:38:18.110 --> 00:38:21.130
<v Speaker 5>when they have their holidays. But, you know, these months

753
00:38:21.170 --> 00:38:23.550
<v Speaker 5>of July and August, especially now in the heat wave

754
00:38:23.570 --> 00:38:27.099
<v Speaker 5>that we're having, it's really put so much stress... on

755
00:38:27.139 --> 00:38:30.960
<v Speaker 5>the landscape or on an already stressed landscape. So I

756
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:36.039
<v Speaker 5>would say be a bit more thoughtful about your timing

757
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.559
<v Speaker 5>of your trip to Italy because it is beautiful all

758
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.280
<v Speaker 5>of the year. So don't just think you have to

759
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:43.980
<v Speaker 5>come here in the hottest months of the year.

760
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, 100%. I think spring's amazing too. Yeah.

761
00:38:47.139 --> 00:38:50.139
<v Speaker 1>For some reason the travel is really back-ended into the

762
00:38:50.219 --> 00:38:51.940
<v Speaker 1>later months of the year and, in fact, I think

763
00:38:51.980 --> 00:38:53.679
<v Speaker 1>September's now, like.

764
00:38:53.860 --> 00:38:55.159
<v Speaker 3>Absolute peak season.

765
00:38:55.219 --> 00:38:58.400
<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, I would really encourage people to have a

766
00:38:58.420 --> 00:39:00.519
<v Speaker 1>look at, you know, spring, March, April.

767
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:03.159
<v Speaker 3>April in Sicily is insane. Like it's one of the

768
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:04.260
<v Speaker 3>best times to visit.

769
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:05.019
<v Speaker 4>Agreed.

770
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.059
<v Speaker 3>Wildflowers, energy, so good.

771
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.820
<v Speaker 1>And all the festivals that are going on, some of

772
00:39:10.889 --> 00:39:13.650
<v Speaker 1>my favourite times actually have been in Sicily in spring.

773
00:39:13.829 --> 00:39:18.889
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I completely agree. I've been to Sicily New Year.

774
00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:21.840
<v Speaker 5>You know, I went skiing down Etna. And then had

775
00:39:22.179 --> 00:39:25.320
<v Speaker 5>Vongole on the beach in Catania the same day.

776
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:27.789
<v Speaker 4>You know, you can do these sorts of things.

777
00:39:28.349 --> 00:39:32.679
<v Speaker 5>So Sicily, I mean, people go to overwinter in Sicily,

778
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:33.460
<v Speaker 5>in Palermo.

779
00:39:33.579 --> 00:39:34.300
<v Speaker 4>It's beautiful.

780
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.579
<v Speaker 5>You can swim there in December. So, yeah, that's it, really.

781
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.380
<v Speaker 5>Italy moves with the seasons completely. And summer now is

782
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.710
<v Speaker 5>survival mode, really. It's just trying to get through it.

783
00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:47.809
<v Speaker 3>It's a bit sad, isn't it? What I feel like

784
00:39:47.949 --> 00:39:49.730
<v Speaker 3>is that nature is so resilient.

785
00:39:49.769 --> 00:39:51.489
<v Speaker 1>And I think, you know, that's what you've shown in

786
00:39:51.510 --> 00:39:54.670
<v Speaker 1>your book. You know, over many millions and hundreds of

787
00:39:54.710 --> 00:39:57.010
<v Speaker 1>thousands of years, somehow the nature is going to survive.

788
00:39:57.050 --> 00:40:00.369
<v Speaker 1>We might not, but the nature is going to keep going. Yeah, yeah.

789
00:40:00.429 --> 00:40:01.449
<v Speaker 4>The planet will be okay.

790
00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:05.130
<v Speaker 5>I think we're just another evolutionary sort of end of

791
00:40:05.150 --> 00:40:05.809
<v Speaker 5>the road, I think.

792
00:40:05.849 --> 00:40:08.150
<v Speaker 4>But, yeah, you're right.

793
00:40:08.750 --> 00:40:12.519
<v Speaker 5>There is some resilience built into the Italian landscape, and

794
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:13.980
<v Speaker 5>that is through variety.

795
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:15.920
<v Speaker 4>That is the variety of landscapes.

796
00:40:16.469 --> 00:40:19.909
<v Speaker 5>The incredible topography, and that which has birthed all of

797
00:40:19.969 --> 00:40:24.010
<v Speaker 5>the amazing foods that we eat, this agrodiversity, having these

798
00:40:24.030 --> 00:40:27.449
<v Speaker 5>little niches where life can survive. And that's exactly what

799
00:40:27.489 --> 00:40:30.110
<v Speaker 5>happened during the Ice Age, you know, over two million years,

800
00:40:30.130 --> 00:40:33.010
<v Speaker 5>while the rest of Europe froze over. Much of the

801
00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:36.820
<v Speaker 5>faunal life found refuge here in Italy and Spain and

802
00:40:37.460 --> 00:40:40.159
<v Speaker 5>Croatia and elsewhere, in Greece. So, yeah, I think there

803
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:42.480
<v Speaker 5>is resilience built in here. Nature will find a way

804
00:40:42.500 --> 00:40:44.619
<v Speaker 5>to survive. Yeah, it'd be good.

805
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:48.710
<v Speaker 4>If we started... trying to help it a bit.

806
00:40:48.710 --> 00:40:50.929
<v Speaker 3>100% agree. Okay.

807
00:40:51.010 --> 00:40:53.889
<v Speaker 1>Now, Ed, where can people find your book if they

808
00:40:53.909 --> 00:40:56.610
<v Speaker 1>want to explore this a bit further? Because actually I

809
00:40:56.630 --> 00:40:59.090
<v Speaker 1>highly recommend because it goes into a lot of detail

810
00:40:59.110 --> 00:41:01.349
<v Speaker 1>and it's not, I don't know, I mean this in

811
00:41:01.389 --> 00:41:02.219
<v Speaker 1>a very respectful way.

812
00:41:02.289 --> 00:41:03.389
<v Speaker 3>It's very easy to read.

813
00:41:03.590 --> 00:41:06.739
<v Speaker 1>It's not really an intellectual book, although it is very

814
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:09.739
<v Speaker 1>intellectual and very well researched, but I think it's very

815
00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:12.860
<v Speaker 1>accessible for anyone if they, you know, want to find

816
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.760
<v Speaker 1>out more about the Italian landscapes and how they've.

817
00:41:15.909 --> 00:41:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Really impacted the way Italy's developed over the years.

818
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:22.719
<v Speaker 5>Thank you that was the intention I wrote you know

819
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:26.900
<v Speaker 5>it's a natural history by an art historian and by

820
00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:30.139
<v Speaker 5>someone who was learning it all anyway so I've tried

821
00:41:30.179 --> 00:41:33.179
<v Speaker 5>to do it I've tried to keep that sense and

822
00:41:33.809 --> 00:41:38.250
<v Speaker 5>I didn't want to write a complicated geological explainer or

823
00:41:38.289 --> 00:41:41.889
<v Speaker 5>anything so thank you that was the intention. It's available

824
00:41:41.929 --> 00:41:44.880
<v Speaker 5>for pre-order right now. It's published in English on the

825
00:41:45.070 --> 00:41:50.340
<v Speaker 5>1st of September. It's available for pre-order now. The Italian edition,

826
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:53.800
<v Speaker 5>Mondadori edition, is coming out on the 29th of September.

827
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:57.800
<v Speaker 5>They're still getting together the links and stuff for the pre-orders.

828
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:00.360
<v Speaker 5>I'm hoping that's going to be available quite soon. But yeah,

829
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.320
<v Speaker 5>you can order it on Amazon or wherever you buy

830
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:03.840
<v Speaker 5>your books.

831
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:06.090
<v Speaker 3>You mentioned you've got a sub stack as well. Do

832
00:42:06.110 --> 00:42:07.789
<v Speaker 3>you want to let everyone know where you can find

833
00:42:07.809 --> 00:42:08.489
<v Speaker 3>you on there?

834
00:42:09.030 --> 00:42:10.789
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I have a sub stack.

835
00:42:11.289 --> 00:42:15.110
<v Speaker 5>Called endemic notes and edward cutler you should be able

836
00:42:15.130 --> 00:42:18.119
<v Speaker 5>to find me on there i have a website called edwardcutler.com

837
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:21.079
<v Speaker 5>and it's got information about the book and and my

838
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.679
<v Speaker 5>writings and everything there i'm not very active on social

839
00:42:24.699 --> 00:42:27.579
<v Speaker 5>media i do have an instagram which i'd shut down

840
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:31.239
<v Speaker 5>for years and now i've i've been urged to reopen

841
00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:34.230
<v Speaker 5>it and start sort of broadcasting stuff but i it's

842
00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:36.730
<v Speaker 5>not a place i'm comfortable but yeah i am also

843
00:42:36.750 --> 00:42:41.050
<v Speaker 5>on instagram edward james cutler And so, yeah, you can

844
00:42:41.090 --> 00:42:43.010
<v Speaker 5>find all my stuff. There will be an audio book

845
00:42:43.230 --> 00:42:46.130
<v Speaker 5>as well as me reading the book, if you prefer,

846
00:42:46.150 --> 00:42:47.690
<v Speaker 5>if you prefer that.

847
00:42:48.050 --> 00:42:50.550
<v Speaker 4>And that's coming out, I think, on publication date as well,

848
00:42:50.869 --> 00:42:51.510
<v Speaker 4>1st of September.

849
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:54.219
<v Speaker 3>So exciting. I'm really excited for you.

850
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:58.340
<v Speaker 1>It's a really great book. And I hope that people really,

851
00:42:58.719 --> 00:42:59.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, get a lot out of it. And I

852
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.199
<v Speaker 1>also hope you somehow find a way to do that

853
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.420
<v Speaker 1>TV show too, because I think it'd be really great.

854
00:43:05.429 --> 00:43:10.010
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean, that would feel like completing it now,

855
00:43:10.389 --> 00:43:13.880
<v Speaker 5>if that's possible. And I think Italy deserves a proper

856
00:43:13.889 --> 00:43:19.039
<v Speaker 5>TV series or film that covers its wildlife and landscapes

857
00:43:19.059 --> 00:43:22.039
<v Speaker 5>a bit better. So yeah, I hope people find a

858
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.820
<v Speaker 5>new side to Italy from that. And another reason to

859
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:28.659
<v Speaker 5>love the place. And yeah, I hope they enjoy the book.

860
00:43:29.179 --> 00:43:30.820
<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't want to be too facetious, but I

861
00:43:30.860 --> 00:43:34.699
<v Speaker 1>don't think we need another TV show of some guy

862
00:43:35.539 --> 00:43:39.699
<v Speaker 1>driving around Italy tasting all the food because I think

863
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:41.409
<v Speaker 1>we can branch out from there.

864
00:43:42.030 --> 00:43:42.449
<v Speaker 4>I agree.

865
00:43:42.469 --> 00:43:43.190
<v Speaker 1>I agree.

866
00:43:43.210 --> 00:43:48.269
<v Speaker 5>I think combine the food with nature and art and

867
00:43:48.309 --> 00:43:48.909
<v Speaker 5>everything like that.

868
00:43:49.469 --> 00:43:52.489
<v Speaker 4>You don't want to limit Italy's wonders to one thing

869
00:43:52.590 --> 00:43:53.780
<v Speaker 4>or other. They're all connected.

870
00:43:54.389 --> 00:43:56.280
<v Speaker 3>One hundred percent. Oh, grazie mille, Ed.

871
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:58.699
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for sharing your passion for Italy's

872
00:43:58.820 --> 00:44:02.699
<v Speaker 1>natural wonders with our audience. And we're wishing you all

873
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:04.940
<v Speaker 1>the very best with the book. And yeah, I hope

874
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:06.059
<v Speaker 1>to see that TV series.

875
00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:10.090
<v Speaker 4>Oh, thank you, Katie. That's really kind. And I'd love

876
00:44:10.130 --> 00:44:12.590
<v Speaker 4>to get to Australia and come and do a book

877
00:44:12.630 --> 00:44:13.690
<v Speaker 4>tour if possible.

878
00:44:13.730 --> 00:44:17.730
<v Speaker 5>So if any of your listeners have ways to help

879
00:44:17.849 --> 00:44:20.230
<v Speaker 5>that happen, then get in touch.

880
00:44:20.849 --> 00:44:22.239
<v Speaker 3>Will do. Thank you.

881
00:44:22.610 --> 00:44:29.590
<v Speaker 1>Thanks. Wow, what a fantastic look at the Italy that

882
00:44:29.670 --> 00:44:32.190
<v Speaker 1>many of us haven't explored yet. And of course, some

883
00:44:32.210 --> 00:44:36.480
<v Speaker 1>of the classics like magnificent Mount Etna in Sicily. Thanks

884
00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:39.659
<v Speaker 1>to Ed for opening my eyes to even more possibilities

885
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.860
<v Speaker 1>across the country. I'm especially interested in taking a swim

886
00:44:42.909 --> 00:44:46.030
<v Speaker 1>in the Torino River when it is clear and clean.

887
00:44:47.059 --> 00:44:49.820
<v Speaker 1>What Pet didn't mention is that near the source of

888
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:53.750
<v Speaker 1>the river at Lake Kapodakwa, there is a submerged village

889
00:44:53.809 --> 00:44:57.190
<v Speaker 1>that was abandoned when the lake was repurposed for irrigation.

890
00:44:57.210 --> 00:45:00.510
<v Speaker 1>He says it is one of the most amazing places

891
00:45:00.590 --> 00:45:03.429
<v Speaker 1>he has ever dived in. I might just pull out

892
00:45:03.469 --> 00:45:07.079
<v Speaker 1>my paddy diving license for that one. Ed shares many

893
00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:10.840
<v Speaker 1>more beautiful and unique places in his book, This Beautiful Country,

894
00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:14.909
<v Speaker 1>How Italy's Nature Shaped Its Culture and Civilization. It is

895
00:45:14.969 --> 00:45:18.710
<v Speaker 1>available for pre-order and published in early September. We will

896
00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:21.070
<v Speaker 1>put a link to the book and also Ed's website

897
00:45:21.289 --> 00:45:26.210
<v Speaker 1>and fledgling Instagram account onto our website show notes at untolditaly.com

898
00:45:26.250 --> 00:45:28.389
<v Speaker 1>forward slash 340 for episode 340. You'll also find all

899
00:45:28.409 --> 00:45:37.190
<v Speaker 1>the places that he mentioned today. Thank you, Grazie Miele,

900
00:45:37.230 --> 00:45:39.889
<v Speaker 1>for joining us today on Untold Italy. I hope you

901
00:45:40.070 --> 00:45:43.170
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed today's show. If you did, it would be fantastic

902
00:45:43.349 --> 00:45:45.530
<v Speaker 1>if you left a rating or review on your favourite

903
00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:49.989
<v Speaker 1>podcast app. That helps us reach more Italy-loving travellers just

904
00:45:50.030 --> 00:45:53.480
<v Speaker 1>like you. If you enjoyed this video and are watching

905
00:45:53.539 --> 00:45:56.260
<v Speaker 1>on YouTube, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss

906
00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:56.860
<v Speaker 1>an episode.

907
00:45:57.420 --> 00:46:00.550
<v Speaker 3>We drop a new video each week. That's all for today.

908
00:46:00.849 --> 00:46:03.809
<v Speaker 1>Next week, I'm sharing some important tips for first-time visitors

909
00:46:03.829 --> 00:46:06.670
<v Speaker 1>to Italy. But until then, it's ciao for now.

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00:46:08.329 --> 00:46:11.150
<v Speaker 3>The Untold Italy podcast is an independent production.

911
00:46:11.590 --> 00:46:15.590
<v Speaker 1>Podcast editing, audio production and website development by Mark Hatter.

912
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:20.099
<v Speaker 3>Production assistance and content writing by the other Katie Clark. Yes,

913
00:46:20.179 --> 00:46:20.880
<v Speaker 3>there are two of us.

914
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:25.820
<v Speaker 1>For more information about Untold Italy, please visit untolditaly.com.