1 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,439 Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free, 2 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,799 head on over to the Peak Kinyonas show dot com. 3 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,799 There you can choose from where you wish to support me. 4 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:51,000 Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me 5 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:53,320 about this, even though I think on the last ad 6 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,799 I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed, 7 00:00:58,159 --> 00:01:01,280 you're going to have to subscribe your sub stack or 8 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,040 through Patreon. You can also subscribe on my website which 9 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,920 is right there, gum Road and what's the other one, 10 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,959 subscribe Star and if you do that, you will get 11 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,599 access to the audio file. So head on over to 12 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,000 the peakan Yonashow dot com. You'll see all the ways 13 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,840 that you can support me there. And I just want 14 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:26,840 to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can 15 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,159 put out the amount of material that I do. I 16 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,519 can do what I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two 17 00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:36,120 hundred Years Together and everything else, the things that Thomas 18 00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:39,079 and I are doing together on condinal philosophy, it's all 19 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,640 because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be 20 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,680 able to thank you enough. So thank you. The Pekanyonashow 21 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,400 dot com. Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back 22 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:56,319 to our reading of two hundred Years Together by Alexander Sulshanisen. 23 00:01:56,799 --> 00:02:01,879 This is episode ninety eight. Johnson, how are you doing today. 24 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,319 Speaker 2: Physically? I'm getting better, slowly but surely, nowhere near you know, 25 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:13,120 hospital level. But it's been a rough couple of months. 26 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:23,159 But but on the positive side, my lighting has changed, 27 00:02:23,159 --> 00:02:25,599 as you may have noticed. Although it is it is 28 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:32,280 pretty much dark here in western Pennsylvania. It is very cloudy. 29 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:36,800 But for all the breed of cats we own, my 30 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,639 wife bought me a t shirt with the breed on it. 31 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,599 So this one's the orange cat, of course, in reference 32 00:02:42,599 --> 00:02:46,159 to Stanley, who is as always is next to me 33 00:02:48,319 --> 00:02:53,240 well sleeping. But but I have a six month old, 34 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,680 as you know, Maine coon that takes up two chairs 35 00:02:56,719 --> 00:03:00,439 now at the kitchen table. No one can to rob 36 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:05,080 my house. I could give away everything else I possess. 37 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,879 No one's gonna rob that house, not with this monster. 38 00:03:09,159 --> 00:03:12,319 Her grandfather was a monster, and I think she can 39 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,479 be just like him. And she has no clue. She's 40 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,800 only six months old and she is just enormous. 41 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: That's incredible. Yeah, purebred mancoons are just forces in nature. 42 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,199 One is your Yeah, all right, we're gonna start getting 43 00:03:31,199 --> 00:03:38,360 into some Stalin here. During his political career, Stalin often 44 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,400 allied with Jewish leaders of the Communist Party and relied 45 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:45,840 on many Jewish backbenchers. By the mid nineteen thirties, he 46 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,560 saw in the example of Hitler all the disadvantages of 47 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:54,240 being self declared enemy of the Jews, yet he likely 48 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,840 harbored hostility toward them. His daughter's memoirs support this, though 49 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:02,639 even his closest Sir was probably unaware of it. However, 50 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,840 struggling against the trotsky Ies, he of course realized this 51 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,199 aspect as well his needs to further get rid of 52 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,000 the Jewish influence in the party, and sensing the war, 53 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,199 he perhaps was also grasping that proletarian internationalism alone would 54 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:23,160 not be sufficient, and that the notion of the homeland 55 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,040 and even the capital h Homeland would be much needed. 56 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that first paragraph. First of all, now we're on 57 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:38,680 to Stalin and there's so much unpack here. I'm not 58 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,279 going to be able to do it in a show 59 00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:46,079 like this. By backbenchers, they're referring to minor figures, usually backbenchy. 60 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:51,279 It meant fairly new members of parliament in the British Parliament, 61 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,879 or even from minor constituencies. Here it's kind of just 62 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,199 low levels of the bureaucracy. And the next the next sentence, 63 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,240 there's a lot of disadvantages of being a self declared 64 00:05:07,399 --> 00:05:12,279 enemy of the Jews. Yeah, he held, he harbored hostility 65 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,199 towards him everyone who wasn't brainwashed, which at the time 66 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:22,000 was everybody. You don't you don't like them, No one 67 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,639 really likes them. You do business with them, you know. 68 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:29,959 But at that point, you know, that's simply you know, 69 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,360 his hostility, however, was not a violent one. His daughter, 70 00:05:35,399 --> 00:05:38,319 of course, was very Jewish herself in her may be 71 00:05:38,399 --> 00:05:42,240 married one. And and if his closest circle was unaware 72 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,240 of it, it couldn't be that that matter that that 73 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:51,920 that might that an intensive matter. So but then it 74 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,399 gets into the biggest problem with the left, the left's 75 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,160 refusal auto refusal to talk about the ethnic factions, the 76 00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:08,319 ethnic elements of life, ethnic, racial whatever. What's going to 77 00:06:08,399 --> 00:06:12,360 hold society together. You have to have something, you know, 78 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,160 the religious the religious element is extremely important. That's where 79 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,240 a society comes from. Let's see, the culture comes from 80 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,800 the cult, as Russell Kirk used to say. And you 81 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,959 can't just say this is the worker's paradise everyone who 82 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,560 wasn't and say that's sufficient to deal with the Germany 83 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:36,360 that now has that that that rose up from almost 84 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:47,639 sure destruction, stressing the nature of German culture, including German religion, 85 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,360 whether it be Catholic or or or or Lutheran. And 86 00:06:51,519 --> 00:06:55,000 and and of course from the Orthodox point of view, Yeah, 87 00:06:55,079 --> 00:06:58,000 the Russian Orthodox Church brought had a huge presence there. 88 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,560 They supported Hitler this point. I did a paper on that. 89 00:07:04,199 --> 00:07:08,279 After the war, they were at a little worried. But 90 00:07:10,079 --> 00:07:13,399 Hitler rebuilt the cathedral in Berlin out of his own money, 91 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:19,279 of his own personal funds. He never disliked Russians or 92 00:07:19,279 --> 00:07:22,839 thought that Russians were inferior, never thought that that comes 93 00:07:22,839 --> 00:07:26,199 from nonsense like the table talks and all that. No, no, 94 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,560 they were there were Europeans like anyone else. But he 95 00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:35,959 despised what was ruling them at the time. Pulitarian internationalism 96 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:42,480 by definition can't motivate anybody. Homeland and capital ahs homeland. Well, 97 00:07:42,519 --> 00:07:46,560 now that means we're talking about ethnicity. And I think 98 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,560 maybe in the back of his mind, maybe Sultanesan's also 99 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,399 talking about the Jewish. Jews of all people know that 100 00:07:54,439 --> 00:08:01,839 this is true, that their ethnic culture is is that 101 00:08:01,839 --> 00:08:08,360 that's what holds them together. They couldn't do anything we 102 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:10,240 talk about them all the time, they couldn't do any 103 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,199 of that without that ethnic culture at all. It's admirable, 104 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,879 as you know, sen Loong Shanks always have said, and 105 00:08:17,959 --> 00:08:27,399 it is the capital H is a heavier conception, you know, race, religious, whatever. 106 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,879 And although it was very weak in Stalin's case, we 107 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:40,200 cannot exaggerate it. It was only you know, in the war. 108 00:08:40,279 --> 00:08:43,080 You know the Stalin was playing the Western Powers very well. 109 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,440 I don't want anyone to believe that. You know, Hitler 110 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:50,799 was unprepared for any battle I got in nineteen forty, 111 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:56,559 German bombers were bombing Berlin. He didn't have a he 112 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,000 didn't have a heavy tank, he didn't have a long 113 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:00,720 range bomber. 114 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,919 Speaker 1: German bombers were bombing Berlin. That's what you said. 115 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. British bombers after the after the 116 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,879 Battle of Britain. I apologize for that. Yeah, yeah, correct me. Please, 117 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:18,000 British bombers were bombing Berlin in nineteen forty. You know, 118 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,080 the the advance on Poland eventually stopped because they ran 119 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:27,440 out of fuel. You know this was the rebuilding of 120 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,360 Germany was not based on the military element, and what 121 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,639 what was often done in the Soviet Union. Stalin loved 122 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:40,960 the idea of the Western powers going to war somehow 123 00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:44,559 using Germany in that in that mix, and then moving 124 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,440 in and taking over the entire continent, the icebreaker thesis, 125 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,000 which is at this point undoubtable. I don't know how 126 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:58,759 anyone could argue against it anymore so, but but more importantly, 127 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,440 in in our case, militarian internationalism is not something no 128 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,480 one's going to die for that. No one's going to 129 00:10:06,519 --> 00:10:09,639 die for a trial by jewelry. No one's going to 130 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,200 die for an abstraction like that. You need to die 131 00:10:12,279 --> 00:10:15,720 for family, hearth, and home, and that's only found in 132 00:10:15,759 --> 00:10:17,200 true nationalism. 133 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: S Schwartz lamented about anti revolutionary transformation of the party 134 00:10:23,919 --> 00:10:28,320 as the unprecedented purge of the ruling party, the virtual 135 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,320 destruction of the old party and the establishment of a 136 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,480 new communist party under the same name in its place. 137 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,120 New in Social Composition and Ideology from nineteen thirty seven. 138 00:10:40,159 --> 00:10:43,200 He also noted a gradual displacement of Jews from the 139 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,440 positions of power in all spheres of public life. Among 140 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,120 the old Bolsheviks who were involved in the activity before 141 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,120 the party came to power, and especially among those with 142 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,840 the pre revolutionary involvement, the percentage of Jews was noticeably 143 00:10:56,919 --> 00:10:59,919 higher than in the Party on average. In younger generation, 144 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,639 the Jewish representation became even smaller. As a result of 145 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,240 the purge, almost all important Jewish Communists left the scene. 146 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,120 Lazar Kaganovitch was the exception. Still, in nineteen thirty nine, 147 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,279 after all the massacres, the faithful communist Zemlyyalka was made 148 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,600 the deputy head of the Soviet of People's Commissars, and 149 00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:27,600 s Dridzo Lozowski was assigned the position of deputy to 150 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,320 the Narkama Foreign Affairs. And yet, in the wider picture, 151 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,440 Schwartz's observations are reasonable, as was demonstrated above. 152 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: Well, I do challenge Swarts all the time, although you 153 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,399 know he does have the advantage of actually being there. 154 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,480 He was at the revolution. He but he is an 155 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:53,080 absolute fanatical Jewish nationalist, and anything that suited Jewish interests 156 00:11:53,080 --> 00:12:01,000 he supported. But the ideology did not change. The only 157 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:06,799 time ideology you may have changed slightly is when is 158 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,120 when you know in the nineteen forty three forty four 159 00:12:10,279 --> 00:12:12,679 were Stalin realized he needed to use some old, you know, 160 00:12:12,759 --> 00:12:19,320 Russian nationalism to to motivate the population. That does not 161 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,320 make him a nationalist. He certainly was not. He turned 162 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:24,919 on all of them the minute the war was over, 163 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,159 creating his own church in forty three forty four. That 164 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,480 does not mean he was Orthodox. He turned on them 165 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,559 the minute the war was over, and they were they 166 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:41,639 were in a pathetic position. So it's reasonable to one extent. 167 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,279 But Sultan Eatson also said that he relied on backbenchers, 168 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:49,679 in other words, people who were less well known Jews, 169 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,759 who were less well known in the in the far 170 00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:58,840 reaches of the now you know, well established apparatus, not 171 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,960 just the party of but the estate apparatus. S. 172 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,399 Speaker 1: Schwartz adds that in the second half of the nineteen thirties, 173 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:11,720 Jews were gradually barred from entering institutions of higher learning 174 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,639 which were preparing specialists for foreign relations and foreign trade, 175 00:13:17,039 --> 00:13:21,840 and were banned from military educational institutions. The famous defector 176 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:26,360 from the USSR I S. Guzenko, shared rumors about a 177 00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:30,919 secret percentage quota on Jewish admissions to the institutions of 178 00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:35,919 higher learning, which was enforced from nineteen thirty nine. In 179 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,320 the nineteen nineties, they even wrote that Molotov, taking over 180 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,960 the People's Commissariate of Foreign Affairs in the spring of 181 00:13:42,039 --> 00:13:45,240 nineteen thirty nine, publicly announced during the meeting with the 182 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:48,639 personnel that he will deal with the synagogue here, and 183 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,960 that he began firing Jews on the very same day. Still, 184 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,759 Litvanoff was quite useful during the war in his role 185 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:58,879 as Soviet ambassador to the US. They say that upon 186 00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:01,840 his departure from the USA in nineteen forty three, he even 187 00:14:01,879 --> 00:14:05,320 dared to passed a personal letter to Roosevelt suggesting that 188 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,360 Stalin had unleashed an anti Semitic campaign in the USSR. 189 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's quite a bit of the secret quotas well. No, 190 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,840 if he was the way that Solomon Swartz says he is, 191 00:14:17,879 --> 00:14:22,600 it wouldn't be secret. Stalin's rule was in no danger 192 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,759 at the time, especially since he was building up a 193 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,519 military which I think at this point where we thirty six, 194 00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:35,559 I guess thirty seven had reached well over four million. 195 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,440 There were no formal restrictions here. Solomon Schwartz was what 196 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,679 s Swartz. We've dealt with him before Solomon Schwartz, of course, 197 00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:52,519 is known for exaggeration even more than you know normal 198 00:14:52,559 --> 00:14:57,879 for his people. And yes, there were plenty of Jews 199 00:14:57,879 --> 00:15:01,000 in the military educational institutions, but it was not their 200 00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:07,360 big thing. Why would there be a quota in higher education? 201 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,240 We know why there was in the Tsarist era, But 202 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,919 why would that matter unless you know that wouldn't make 203 00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:22,200 any difference to Stalin So and in fact it was 204 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:25,639 secret and it was only a rumor. Okay, Well, if 205 00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:29,480 that's as good as you can do, then then this 206 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,919 is just a matter of speculation. 207 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,639 Speaker 1: By the mid nineteen thirties, the sympathy of European jewelry 208 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,559 toward the Ussar had further increased. Trotsky explained it. 209 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,759 Speaker 2: But he knows what he's Sultan needs to knows what 210 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:50,919 he's doing when he's writing these words. You know he does, 211 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,519 he knows. Okay, go ahead. 212 00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: Trotsky explained it in nineteen thirty seven, on his way 213 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,159 to Mexico. The Jewish intelligentsia turns to the not because 214 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,399 they are interested in Marxism or Communism, but in search 215 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:09,360 of support against aggressive German anti Semitism. It was what 216 00:16:09,559 --> 00:16:13,480 it was, this same commoncern that approved the Malotsov Ribbons 217 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,759 trop pack pack, the pack that dealts a mortal blowed 218 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:22,039 to East European jewelry. 219 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: Yeah again, Jews are are known for their penton for exaggeration. 220 00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:39,519 You got to remember. And what what what Trotsky is 221 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:43,600 is getting at is partially true, is that given the 222 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:47,240 rise of Adolf Hitler, Stalin didn't have to do could 223 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,320 could be he didn't have to do much to be 224 00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:54,120 the favorite of Jews throughout the world. And of course 225 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:59,000 he was not the US it was. It was the 226 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:06,160 us SR. Jewish parties in Europe did not see Stalin 227 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,480 as as anti as anti Judaic or or or port 228 00:17:10,519 --> 00:17:15,119 pershing Jews as as a race, as a specific group 229 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:24,400 of people. But but, and Trotsky will then bring up 230 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,160 the issue now for the rest of his life, which 231 00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:31,119 you know he wouldn't have if he you know, if 232 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:38,599 he didn't, if he didn't get expelled. So Jewish intelligentia, Yeah, well, 233 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:39,960 you know some of them are, I mean, many of 234 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,839 them are interested in Marxism or Communism. I don't know, 235 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,319 I don't think. I don't think Trotsky was interested in 236 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,799 Marxism or Communism. I have a lot of proof of that. 237 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,039 But it served Jewish interests, especially in this period of 238 00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:59,559 time where Hitler was not just rising, but he was 239 00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:03,920 being led did he was making all other parties irrelevant. 240 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,279 He was the only one that was going to uh, 241 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,039 that was that was spitting at the the Treaty of Versign. 242 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,920 You know, he was the only one who was saying 243 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:19,359 what was happening. And the Western world, of course, was 244 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,319 was extremely angry at him. He was not financed by 245 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,400 Western corporations. As as a myth goes, there were the 246 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,720 they were the ones at this point screaming for war 247 00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:38,160 against him. So uh, and it was it was difficult 248 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,240 though for for Jews and other and you throughout Europe 249 00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:47,880 and and uh, you know North America too to go 250 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:54,480 along with with Stalin on certain things. Well we'll get 251 00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:58,559 to that in a little bit. But but he did 252 00:18:58,599 --> 00:19:01,319 anything but unleash and anti been a campaign in the USSR. 253 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,559 I'm getting I'm getting ahead of myself here. 254 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: In September nineteen thirty nine, hundreds of thousands of Polish 255 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,680 Jews fled from the advancing German armies, fleeing further and 256 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,440 further east and trying to head for the territory occupied 257 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,200 by the Red Army. For the first two months they 258 00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:21,359 succeeded because of the favorable attitude of Soviet authorities. The 259 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,839 Germans quite often encouraged this flight. But at the end 260 00:19:24,839 --> 00:19:28,200 of November, the Soviet government closed the border. 261 00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:32,599 Speaker 2: The Red Army. Did you you know how long it 262 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,039 takes for even a history grad student professor to realize 263 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:38,920 that Red Army is even involved in this period of time. 264 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,000 You know, the Red Army invaded Poland just a week 265 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,440 I think maybe ten days after. The Germans never gets mentioned, 266 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,039 never gets talked about. Stalin invaded neutral countries like the Baltics, 267 00:19:54,680 --> 00:20:00,599 doesn't get mentioned. You know, there was you know, and 268 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,519 this I think that the Jewish power has a lot 269 00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:06,079 to do with this. What he means by close the border, 270 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:12,920 I'm not sure, but it was certainly in his interest 271 00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:16,400 to have plenty of anti German Jews on his side, 272 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,359 and he did. And as Hitler rose into power, his 273 00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:24,640 enemies again, they didn't run to the US, where there 274 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,319 was a substantial community there. They ran to the USSR. 275 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,359 I'd have to prove Hitler right. 276 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,599 Speaker 1: In different areas of the front, things took shape differently. 277 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:37,759 In some areas, the Soviets would not admit Jewish refugees 278 00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:40,319 at all. In other places they were welcome, but later 279 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,759 sometimes sent back to the Germans. Overall, it is believed 280 00:20:43,759 --> 00:20:46,559 that around three hundred thousand Jews managed to migrate from 281 00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:50,559 the western to the year to the eastern, from western 282 00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:52,880 to eastern Poland in the first months of the war, 283 00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:56,960 and later the Soviets evacuated them deeper into the USSR. 284 00:20:57,759 --> 00:21:01,160 They demanded that Polish Jews registers Soviet citizens, but many 285 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,400 of them did not rush to accept Soviet citizenship. After all, 286 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,640 they thought the war would would soon be over and 287 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,200 they would return home or go to America or to Palestine. 288 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,440 Yet in the eyes of the Soviet regime, they thereby 289 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,839 immediately fell into the category of suspected of espionage, especially 290 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,480 if they tried to correspond with relatives in Poland. Still 291 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:25,000 we read in the Chicago Sentinel that the Soviet Union 292 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,880 gave refuge to ninety percent of all European Jewish refugees 293 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,000 fleeing from Hitler. 294 00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:34,599 Speaker 2: So Trotsky again was full of it. They didn't close 295 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,279 the border. And that's what I was going to get 296 00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:40,799 to when I stopped myself, I was getting ahead of myself. 297 00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:44,039 It just he didn't close the border. It wasn't his 298 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,799 interest to allow these people in large numbers now suspected 299 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:53,799 of espionage. Now this is something of personal interests or 300 00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:59,559 sultan Esen, because anyone who was captured and spent any 301 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:04,759 time in a pow camp was by definition suspected of espionage. 302 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:09,799 When they came back, they weren't subject to their brainwashing consistently. 303 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:16,480 Therefore they were a threat, even though these were these 304 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,960 people were completely innocent, you know, military men. He was 305 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,400 an artillery officer brought under a sense of the Gulag 306 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,039 because he had been been a bow. The Germans captured 307 00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:35,839 what three and a half million Soviet soldiers in a 308 00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:41,440 couple of months, an Operation Barbarossa, which of course wouldn't 309 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:47,759 make any sense unless, uh they you know this, this 310 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,279 was the invasion force. So but now I don't know. 311 00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:55,640 The Chicago Sentinel may not be the best authority, but yeah, 312 00:22:56,319 --> 00:23:00,240 it would make sense for anyone running the USS. Aren't 313 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,720 the time to give rescue to European Jews because they were, 314 00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:09,279 you know, they hated Hitler and they could be used 315 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:10,400 against them for that reason. 316 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: According to the January nineteen thirty nine census, three million, 317 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,880 twenty thousand Jews lived in the USSR. Now, after occupation 318 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,440 of the Baltics, annexation of a part of Poland and 319 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,319 taking in Jewish refugees, approximately two million more Jews were added, 320 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,440 giving a total of around five million. Before nineteen thirty nine, 321 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,000 the Jews were the seventh largest people in the USSR 322 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,079 number wise. Now, after annexation of all western areas, they 323 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,279 became the fourth largest people of the USSR, after the 324 00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:47,680 three Slavic peoples Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussian. The Mutual Non 325 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,519 Aggression Pact of August twenty third, nineteen thirty nine between 326 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:54,480 the Third reichrom the Soviet Union evoked serious fear about 327 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,480 the future of Soviet Jewry, though the policy of the 328 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,440 Soviet Union toward its Jewish city since was not changed, 329 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:07,680 and although there were some revorse reverse deportations, overall, the 330 00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:10,960 legal status of the Jewish population remained unchanged. During the 331 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,839 twenty months of the Soviet German collaboration and. 332 00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:20,279 Speaker 2: There was a big split in the left the Communist 333 00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:24,440 Party between those following Moscow and those following Tronsky. And 334 00:24:24,519 --> 00:24:27,680 this was the big issue. You know, you're a Jewish 335 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,640 member of the party. Salom has a non aggression pact 336 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,359 with Hitler. You have to go along with it, you know, 337 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,559 it's a problem and so and then of course they 338 00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:41,920 would go to the trotsky Anites instead, and then over 339 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:44,799 over a long period of time, their intellectual leaders became 340 00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:52,880 what we call the neocons today. But no one had 341 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,720 any idea that they knew the war was coming. Salomon 342 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,960 absolutely knew the war was coming. The only the only 343 00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:04,200 UH entity that was ready for it was the Soviet Union. 344 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,680 Germany was not contrary to all the mythology, and and 345 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:17,079 that was quite by design, you know, uh, the splitting 346 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,559 of Poland. But it was only Poland that was that 347 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,200 that that that caused the the Western Allies to declare 348 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,759 war on Germany, despite the fact that Stalin also invaded 349 00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:33,599 a third of the country, and then at the end 350 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,119 of the war had no problem giving it to Stalin anyway, 351 00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:42,839 you know, it's just and and you know, Jews made 352 00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:48,319 out either way and then not a non aggression pact 353 00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:51,640 didn't last long, but Germany took advantage of it. That's 354 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,119 where a lot of their newer tanks were were tested out. 355 00:25:58,039 --> 00:26:01,559 But by now Versailles was a dead letter Hitler. It 356 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,640 was clear it was a dead letter. Now, but there 357 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,240 were Germany was no way ready for a war. 358 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,559 Speaker 1: There's only a couple of lines left in this chapter, 359 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,680 but the next chapter is only eight pages long. I 360 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,759 think we should start the next chapter. How does that sound? 361 00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:29,079 Speaker 2: Oh? Oh, oh, I see yeah, yeah, going through the footnotes. Okay, well, 362 00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:32,759 I've read a lot of this stuff. Oh Solomon Schwartz, 363 00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:34,839 Yeah we should we s could we should talk about him? 364 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,119 He was a piece of work. Here we go. 365 00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: Oh boy, I forgot Are you seeing you seeing the 366 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,240 title this chapter? 367 00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm seeing the title. Yeah, yeah, okay, all. 368 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,759 Speaker 1: Right, well let's finish this chapter up here. 369 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 2: Well you want to just go to go to the 370 00:26:58,279 --> 00:26:59,240 chapter twenty. 371 00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: Oh, well we have we have a couple of lines left, 372 00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:03,839 and this this next paragraph is really good. Is a 373 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,039 really good one, okay. With With the start of war 374 00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:11,559 in Poland, Jewish sympathies finally crystallized in Polish Jews and 375 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,000 the Jewish youth in particular met the advancing Red Army 376 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,920 with exulting enthusiasm. Thus, according to many testimonies, including Emma 377 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,880 Girsky's one, Polish Jews like their co ethnics in Besarabia. 378 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,599 But Bookavina and Lithuania became the main pillar of the 379 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,880 Soviet regime, supporting it tooth and nail. Yet how much 380 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,480 did these East European Jews know about what was going 381 00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:40,839 on in the USSR. They unerringly sensed that a catastrophe 382 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,359 was rolling at them from Germany, those still not fully 383 00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:48,200 or clearly recognized, but undoubtedly a catastrophe, and so the 384 00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:53,680 Soviet welcome appeared to them to embody certain salvation, you know. 385 00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 2: And when Orthodox peasants welcomed the German army with all 386 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:06,640 their verses and everything else they had, they're condemned. But 387 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,799 we see the exact same thing happening with with young Jews. 388 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,400 And uh but but I do love the line all 389 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,039 the disadvantages about being a public enemy or a self 390 00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:24,640 declared enemy of of of the Jews. I remember William Pirius, 391 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,480 not that I'm a big you know, I like him. 392 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,000 I'm not a big fan of of of a lot 393 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,759 of things. But but you know, he just says, you know, 394 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,759 people will do business with them. We have people don't 395 00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:39,519 really like them, though, you know, And of course that 396 00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:42,920 was many years ago. You know, I've had I've had 397 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,759 Jewish friends who have no idea what what I do 398 00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:55,279 in the dark. Ah. But they're they're generally unlikable unless 399 00:28:55,319 --> 00:29:02,319 they're totally assimilated, so you know which case their Jewish nature. Well, 400 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,039 they could always plug into their system at any time, 401 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,759 they just don't need it right now. And I do 402 00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:12,200 think they knew what was going on in the USSR. 403 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,839 The Jews did an excellent job of communicating back and forth. 404 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,839 And you know, it was Marxism, it was Stalinism. It 405 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,079 was Leninism that was the target of Adolf Hitler, not 406 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,200 Judaism as such. 407 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: All right, Chapter twenty in the Camps of the Ghoul 408 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:38,200 of the Gulag. If I hadn't been there, it wouldn't 409 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,720 be possible for me to compose this chapter. Before the camps, 410 00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:45,480 I thought that no one should notice nationalities, that there 411 00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:49,720 are no nationalities, there is only one human kind. But 412 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:52,400 when you were sent into the camp, you find it out. 413 00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:55,200 If you are a lucky nationality, then you are a 414 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,319 fortunate man, You are provided for, you have survived. But 415 00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:07,000 if you are aality, well, then no offense. Because nationality 416 00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:09,400 is perhaps the most important trait that gives a prisoner 417 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,200 a chance to be picked into the life saving core 418 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,720 of idiots. You want me to read the translator's note here, Yes, Jim, Yeah, 419 00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:21,559 translator's note. This is from the Russia. The Russian word 420 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,160 translated to idiots full or idiot. This is an inmate 421 00:30:25,319 --> 00:30:28,559 slang term to denote other inmates who didn't do common 422 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,599 labor but managed to obtain positions with easy duties, usually 423 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,480 pretending to be incapable of doing hard work because of 424 00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:36,200 poor health. 425 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know where this is going. 426 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: I oh, I know exactly where this is going. I 427 00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:50,000 remember the beginning of this book. Every experienced camp inmate 428 00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:54,480 can confirm that ethnic proportions among idiots were very different 429 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,799 from those in the general camp population. Indeed, there were 430 00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:02,599 virtually no privats among idiots, regardless of their actual number 431 00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:04,839 in the camp, and there were many of them. There 432 00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:11,279 were also Russians, of course, but incomparably smaller proportion than 433 00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:14,039 in the camp on average, and those were often selected 434 00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:17,200 from orthodox members of the party. On the other hand, 435 00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:24,279 some others were noticeably concentrated. Jews. Georgians, Armenians and Azeris 436 00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:27,839 also ended there in higher proportions, and to some extent 437 00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:34,680 Caucasian mountaineers also. Certainly, none of them can be blamed 438 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,039 for that every nation in the Gulag did its best 439 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:40,720 crawling to survival, and the smaller and nimbler it was, 440 00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:44,200 the easier it was to accomplish. And again Georgians were 441 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,720 the very last nation in their own Russian camps, like 442 00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:50,920 they were like they were in German Krea. I can't 443 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:51,440 pronounce that. 444 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. You know, the concept of an idiot, 445 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:02,519 in the way that Aristotle defined mind, it was somebody 446 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,160 who didn't need the rest of society, like Bigfoot something 447 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:12,640 like that, something that could survive without everybody else. Didn't 448 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,920 necessarily mean that they were a moron. Maybe maybe on 449 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,079 the contrary, but here, you know, you concluding had privileges. 450 00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:24,519 It's like you know in in in the German camps, 451 00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:30,279 Jews were normally the the the those who you know, 452 00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:36,440 guarded the inmates. Uh, we get to that some other time. 453 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,480 And in Mays have said this themselves, But it's like 454 00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:49,680 in American prisons, their race comes out, you know, white, 455 00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:53,400 Hispanic and black. And if you have a long prison stretch, 456 00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:57,839 you know, you go to you you don't separate from 457 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,640 your race. It's just one place. For whatever whatever reason, 458 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:07,160 the intense stress brings out the most fundamental element which 459 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,039 seems to be racial, and that's how they survive. People 460 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:16,200 condemn members of the Aryan Brotherhood, I said, well, what 461 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,079 do you expect them to do? Just be raped by 462 00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:24,359 everyone else. They have to form their own, their own groups, 463 00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:29,519 this kind of organization based on language and appearance. Right, 464 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,400 this is how they function and survived. Hence it is 465 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,680 a normal and natural way to function. 466 00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:42,839 Speaker 1: That German word kriegs kafon jennen laggers means a prisoner 467 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,480 of war, prisoner of war camp. All right, Yet it 468 00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:51,480 is not us who have been who have blamed them, 469 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,960 but it is they Armenians, Georgians, highlanders who would have 470 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,480 been in their right to ask us, why did you 471 00:33:58,599 --> 00:34:01,720 establish these camps? Why do you force us to live 472 00:34:01,759 --> 00:34:04,480 in your state? Do not hold us and we will 473 00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:09,559 not land here and occupy these such attractive, idiotic positions. 474 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,880 But while we are your prisoners a la ger comte 475 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,119 de le de ala. 476 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 2: He is referring to the gulag here, not Gulags in Pow. 477 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:25,159 Two two different, two different things. You know, Armenians and 478 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:30,039 Georgians always you know there were two ethnicities in the 479 00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:35,440 Russians in the Soviet Empire. That that I mean relatively speaking, 480 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,039 did fairly well. I mean they always met their quota, 481 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,880 sometimes exceeded it. There are very few Georgians outside of Georgia. 482 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,559 This is probably the first time the draft brought them 483 00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:52,199 outside of their own borders. And you know, you don't 484 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:57,280 see a lot of Georgian Orthodox churches out there because 485 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:05,880 they don't have much of a diaspora. So I don't know, 486 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:11,800 you know it certainly it speaks from personal experience here, uh, 487 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,880 and not just personal experience, but emotional experience. 488 00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: That French term means in war, anything goes. Yeah, but 489 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,880 what about Jews? For fate interwove Russian and Jews, perhaps forever, 490 00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:30,199 which is why this book is being written. Before that, 491 00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:33,280 before this very line. There will be readers who have 492 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,800 been in the camps and who haven't been, who will 493 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,280 be quick to contest the truth in what I say here. 494 00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:40,880 They will claim that many Jews were forced to take 495 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,960 part in common labor activities. They will deny that there 496 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,639 were camps where Jews were the majority among idiots. They 497 00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:52,559 will indignantly reject that nations in the camps were helping 498 00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:56,039 each other selectively and therefore at the expense of others. 499 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,079 Some others will not consider themselves as distate Jews at all, 500 00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:05,880 perceiving themselves as Russians and everything. Besides, even if there 501 00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:11,639 was overrepresent representation of Jews on key camp positions, it 502 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:17,079 was absolutely unpremeditated, wasn't it. The selection was exclusively based 503 00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:20,960 on merit and personal talents and abilities to do business. Well, 504 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,880 who is to blame if Russians lacked business talents? 505 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,559 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and that's that's been that that's come up 506 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:35,679 many times in this book. Well, who's to blame? And 507 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:43,440 so that means that Russians did all the work. Russians 508 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,440 were just the one that they were the one ethnic 509 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,960 group that really wasn't allowed to organize in the Soviet Union. 510 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,280 Everyone else had their own you know, media and everything else, 511 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:02,239 not not Russia and Russi was the threat. Russian nationalism 512 00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:07,679 was the threat to the Soviet leadership. And I've mentioned 513 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:10,039 that many times, but it is a key factor of 514 00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:11,000 understanding all of this. 515 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: There will also be those who will passionately assert directly 516 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,840 opposite that it was Jews who suffered worse than the camps. 517 00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:22,840 This is exactly how it is understood in the West. 518 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,320 In Soviet camps, nobody suffered as badly as Jews. Among 519 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,679 the letters from readers of Ivan Denisovitch, there was one 520 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,519 from an anonymous Jew quote, you have met innocent Jews 521 00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:38,079 who languished in camps with you, and you obviously not 522 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,840 at once witnessed their suffering and persecution. They endure double oppression, 523 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,239 imprisonment and enmity from the rest of inmates. Tell us 524 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,000 about these people, you. 525 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,679 Speaker 2: Know, I have a book out on the Orthodox tradition 526 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,920 in Russian literature, and this short novel i've in the 527 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,519 Nisovitch's I think it may be the first the first 528 00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:05,360 chapter I was so long ago. And if I were 529 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:11,119 to for for our listeners to start with Sultzanten as 530 00:38:11,159 --> 00:38:14,280 a literary figure, that would be the first book that 531 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,400 in the House of the Dead. Maybe the House of 532 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,039 the Dead first, and then and then Ivan Denisovitch. But 533 00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:25,280 as far as the Cans are concerned, that was his 534 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:31,880 first offering in this in this regard. But Jews, you know, 535 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,920 wherever they went, even if it was a small number, 536 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,199 immediately organized and immediately took advantage of it. This is 537 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,760 why ethnic organized, you know. This is this is how 538 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,320 human beings function. The We're not turtles, you know, we don't. 539 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,159 We don't, you know, lay eggs and leave and all 540 00:38:48,199 --> 00:38:51,119 the babies just run to the sea. Now we've we've 541 00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:55,400 formed communities, and these communities have to be based on something, 542 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,760 and it's language, religion, and ethnicity, all pushing together to 543 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,800 create the Ethnos. Jews know that better than anyone in 544 00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:09,480 the world. The problem they have is that when other 545 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,719 people start noticing. 546 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: That, and if I wish to generalize and state that 547 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,119 the life of Jews and camps was especially difficult, then 548 00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:20,360 I would be allowed to do so and wouldn't be 549 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,840 peppered with admonitions for unjust ethnic generalizations. But in the 550 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,679 camps where I was imprison it was the other way around. 551 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,880 The life of Jews, to the extent of possible generalization, 552 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:40,719 was easier. Simon Badash, my camp mate from Ekabab Bassust, 553 00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:44,880 recounts in his memoirs how he had managed to settle 554 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,280 later in a camp at Nourlsk. In the medical unit, 555 00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:54,960 Max Mins asked a radiologist, Lazlo Newsbomb, to solicit for 556 00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:59,159 Badash before a free head of the unit. He was accepted. 557 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,760 Badash at least finished three years of medical school before imprisonment. 558 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,920 Compare that with other nurses, Gank and Goral, like Gorovich, 559 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,599 like one of my pals, l couple couple lev from 560 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,360 Unslag who never before in their lives had anything to 561 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,199 do with medicine. 562 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,119 Speaker 2: Keep in mind that the camps weren't just h There 563 00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:23,960 was a strong element where it was just forced labor 564 00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:29,920 in the snow. Yeah, that's true. But other camps in 565 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:35,480 Sultanas's own own writing, uh and in truth, other camps 566 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:42,760 were scientific institutes actually within the Gulag. And this is 567 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,800 where you know, Jews can be sent if they had 568 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,480 their requisite skills to do, you know, to to produce things. 569 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,599 It's shocking people and realized that they have these these 570 00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:59,159 institutes and research institutes right within the Gulag system. Yeah, 571 00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:02,599 it's true, Soulcial Ancient writes about it at great length. 572 00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:09,119 But maybe even if they didn't have that ability, they 573 00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:11,760 still could be brought there because they're a Jew. 574 00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:18,599 Speaker 1: Some people absolutely seriously write like this, A Belenkoff was 575 00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:22,199 thrown into the most despicable category of idiots, and I 576 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,760 am tempted to inappropriately add and languishers here, though the 577 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:32,599 languishers were the social antipods of idiots, and Belenkoff never 578 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,519 was among the languishers to be thrown into the group 579 00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:40,119 of idiots. What an expression to be diminished by being 580 00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:43,239 accepted into the ranks of gentlemen. And here goes to 581 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,360 justification to dig soil. But at the age of twenty 582 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,119 three he not only never did it, he never saw 583 00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:52,719 a shovel in his life. Well, then he had no 584 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,079 other choice but to become an idiot. 585 00:41:56,639 --> 00:42:01,559 Speaker 2: That paragraph could summarize what we've done in this book 586 00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:08,480 so far in a certain way. People would people would 587 00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:13,840 misunderstand the word either Greek idiots, you know, someone separate. 588 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,239 But you know I've mentioned before she was always functioned 589 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:26,719 as a mafia organization, even even in the USSR. And 590 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,039 I think what he's getting at here is something along 591 00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:34,800 the lines of a no work job. That the mafia, 592 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,599 at least on the East Coast specialized in any any 593 00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,400 project that they had their hands in. They could give 594 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,599 their friends a job with health insurance and everything else, 595 00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:48,239 and they didn't either either have to show, or if 596 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,920 they did show, they didn't have to work. And I 597 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:52,719 think that's what languishers mean here. 598 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: Or read what Levinson Krasnoff wrote about one Pinski, a 599 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,599 literature expert that he was a nurse in the camp, 600 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,440 which means that he on the camp scale, has adhered well. However, 601 00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:11,039 Levitton presents us as an example of the greatest humiliation 602 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:17,280 possible for a professor of the humanities, or take prisoner 603 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,360 who survived. Lev Roskin a journalist and not a medic 604 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,400 at all, who was heavily published afterwards. But from his 605 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,320 story in Ogonik nineteen eighty eight we find that he 606 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,719 used to be a medic in the camp's medical unit, 607 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:38,079 and moreover, an unescorted medic from other his stories. From 608 00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:39,880 other of his stories, we can figure out that he 609 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,079 also worked as a senior controller at a horrible timber 610 00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:46,280 logging station. But there is not a single story from 611 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,320 which we can conclude that he ever participated in common labor. 612 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a little bit like stolen Valor here, 613 00:43:55,679 --> 00:44:01,320 where these guys once the you know, and once nineteen 614 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:07,719 ninety came ninety one ninety two, they they made claims 615 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,119 of camp suffering that of course they never they never 616 00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:18,079 had anything to do with despite the fact that even 617 00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:24,760 while reading it, I don't think i've read rascon myself, 618 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:32,239 although I unescorted metic, meaning that he is so he's 619 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,840 trusted by the authorities. What the hell's he doing in 620 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,840 the gulag? Then, I think it pretty much do as 621 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,840 he pleases. But later on they'll write these stories of 622 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,159 their own suffering and pain, and and that's why you 623 00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:50,800 know sultanation was so important, and why you had the 624 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,079 Jewish avalanche against him starting in the nineteen eighties. 625 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,519 Speaker 1: Or a story of Frank Dickler, a Jew from far 626 00:44:58,559 --> 00:45:02,880 away Brazil. He was imprisoned and couldn't speak Russian, of course, 627 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,920 and guess what he had pull in the camp and 628 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,639 he had become a chief of the medical unit's kitchen, 629 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:15,679 a truly magnificent treasure. Or Alexander Varnel, who was a 630 00:45:15,679 --> 00:45:19,119 political youngster when he landed in the camps, says that 631 00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:22,360 immediately after getting in the camp, he was readily assisted 632 00:45:22,639 --> 00:45:25,719 by other Jewish inmates who had not the slightest idea 633 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,400 about my political views. A Jewish inmate responsible for running 634 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,400 the bathhouse, a very important idiot as well, has spotted 635 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,079 him instantly and ordered him to come if he needs 636 00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:39,920 any help. A Jew from prisoner of security, also an idiot, 637 00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:44,239 told another Jew, a brigadier, there are two Jewish guys. Hakim, 638 00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:47,679 don't allow them to get in trouble, and the brigadier 639 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:53,639 gave them strong protection. Other thieves, especially elders, approved him. 640 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,760 You are so right, Hakim, you support your own kin. 641 00:45:57,079 --> 00:45:59,320 Yet we Russians are like wolves to each other. 642 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,679 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that that if that doesn't resonate with our listeners. 643 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:12,000 You know, uh, the Jewish ability to organize and assist 644 00:46:12,039 --> 00:46:14,199 one another despite I know that they could be very 645 00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:18,800 fractious and all that, but under these conditions, if the 646 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,760 Russians still there was no conception of that. And this 647 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,480 is the reason why they did all the work. This 648 00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:27,440 is why sultanese and even after he got cancer. Can 649 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,280 you imagine being in the Gulag and having cancer. You know, 650 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,800 he moved to Kazakhstan when when that was discovered. But 651 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,960 you talk about talking about suffering here. But you notice, 652 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,880 you know, guards, actual you know, infantrymen or policemen we 653 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:52,400 would call CEOs. They didn't really exist unless, yeah, there 654 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,679 was a big problem, unless there was a riot or 655 00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:57,199 something like that. Now, this was all organized at the 656 00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:04,519 camp level, and so and so that means that the 657 00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:08,079 most the best organized group, whoever that might be, is 658 00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:10,639 going to be the best off. Well, we all know 659 00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:13,079 who that is, but it's not just Jews, it is 660 00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:19,880 also Armenians in Georgians again fairly small although although elite 661 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,880 in my opinion ethnic groups, and I like the Brazilian 662 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,920 one is funny because he didn't speak the language, but 663 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,480 he's still well, he's one of us, so he's brought 664 00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:34,760 in and is and it doesn't have to do the work. 665 00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:41,800 He could cook or something like that. But it's clear 666 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,559 that this is the one place where Jewish organization and 667 00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:50,679 ethnic fanaticism saved them. Yeah, there were plenty of Jews 668 00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:54,000 in the camps for a whole bunch of different reasons, 669 00:47:54,079 --> 00:48:00,679 Zionist especially, and it would still being in a gulag 670 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,880 wherever you were was you know, gulogs were all over 671 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,880 the empire. They all had different purposes. I think by 672 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,000 by let's say, the by Stalin's death nineteen fifty three, 673 00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:21,920 they comprised maybe ten or twelve percent of the Soviet economy. 674 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,719 So you did have, I mentioned, you did have fairly 675 00:48:26,639 --> 00:48:29,679 sophisticated production in certain places. It wasn't just you know, 676 00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:34,679 banging rocks with it with a pick, but to the 677 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,599 extent that there was was banking rocks with a pick. 678 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,480 We know who's going to be doing it. It's going 679 00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:41,320 to be Russians doing it with a Jews sitting there 680 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,360 not having to worry about it. 681 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,519 Speaker 1: And let's not forget that even during camp imprisonment, by 682 00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:51,480 virtue of a common stereotype regarding all Jews as businessmen, 683 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,480 many of them were getting commercial offers, sometimes even when 684 00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:59,280 they didn't actively look for such enterprises. Take for instance, 685 00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:04,800 m He emphatically notes, quote, what a pity that I 686 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,079 can't describe to you those camp situations. There are so 687 00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:12,960 many rich, beautiful stories. However, the ethical code of the 688 00:49:13,039 --> 00:49:16,679 reliable Jews seals my mouth. You know, even the smallest 689 00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:19,480 commercial secrets should be kept forever. That's the law of 690 00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:24,960 the tribe. End quote. I love when they do that. 691 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,000 I love when they say that stuff out loud. 692 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,079 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, honesty a let. 693 00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:37,599 Speaker 1: Ann Bernstein, one of my witnesses from Archipelago, thinks that 694 00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:40,719 he managed to survive in the camps only because in 695 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,639 times of hardship he asked the Jews for help, and 696 00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:47,599 that the Jews, judging by his last name and nimble manners, 697 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,840 mistook him for their tribesmen and always provided assistance. He 698 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,800 says that in all his camps, Jews always constituted the 699 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,039 upper crust, and that the most important free employees were 700 00:49:59,079 --> 00:50:02,920 also Jews. Shulman head of special Department, Greenberg head of 701 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:08,559 campus station, Kegel's chief mechanic of the factory, and according 702 00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:12,320 to his recollections, they also preferred to select Jewish inmates 703 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,559 to staff their units. 704 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,119 Speaker 2: Oh, I've been mistaken many years ago, not anymore, when 705 00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:25,000 my New Jersey accent was much heavier. I was mistaken 706 00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:29,840 for a Jew many times. And because I know enough 707 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,559 of the of the of the lingo to get by, 708 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,280 and it's been yeah, yeah, I mean, I grew up 709 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:45,480 in an Italian Jewish area and it's it's I know 710 00:50:45,519 --> 00:50:50,000 exactly what's what he's talking about here. So even in 711 00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:57,519 the goolog system, the Jewish organization is what saves and 712 00:50:57,559 --> 00:50:59,679 that's that's that's the moral of the story so far here. 713 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,280 The only thing that could ever bring about justice or 714 00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:11,639 or peace is ethnic organization. When I say ethnic, I'm 715 00:51:11,639 --> 00:51:15,519 also you know, I'm referring to language, uh and and religion. 716 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,239 It's really tough to not have the religions as a 717 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:29,840 central element, and that that creates culture and that's you know, 718 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,559 that's that's the key. That's the only way. That's how 719 00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:38,920 human beings are designed. And if it takes this extreme 720 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,320 experience to bring that out, or what they do in 721 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,639 American prisons, where everything is based racially, at least in 722 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:53,920 state prisons, in federal prisons, it's and and sometimes you 723 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,400 really have to be Jewish if if you're if you could, 724 00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,000 if you're perceived as such, you can still get the benefits. 725 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,239 I couldn't keep it up. I couldn't keep doing that 726 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,320 for long. I'd always mess up somehow. But but if 727 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,119 my my accent was heavier like my late sistress was, 728 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,239 I'd be able to do it all the time. 729 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:18,639 Speaker 1: I think that's the stopping point. We can pick up 730 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,880 from there and finish that chapter on the on the 731 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:22,719 next go round. 732 00:52:23,679 --> 00:52:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, you notice that there's a huge change in language 733 00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:29,599 and how he's talking. But all of a sudden, this 734 00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:32,840 isn't nearly this is this is. 735 00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,880 Speaker 1: Less academic and more personal. 736 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,079 Speaker 2: More personal, and it is more emotional. He's still gonna 737 00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:45,800 get in trouble for it. You got to remember when 738 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:51,639 this came out and for this electrified Russia, and this 739 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:56,079 came out around the time Putin started, you know, throwing 740 00:52:56,119 --> 00:53:01,079 the Jewish on a Gardsen prison. That's when the letter 741 00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:04,519 of the three thousand came out, all that stuff, and 742 00:53:04,599 --> 00:53:07,360 it's you know, Jews or zero point six percent of 743 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:12,280 the Jews right now in the Russian Federation. Uh. But 744 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:18,440 but this, this is this shook Russia. This brought out 745 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,360 me on when Putin came out and said, yeah, the 746 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:25,599 Bullshep Revolution was Jewish. He said that many times, you know, 747 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,960 it was it was, you know, either coming from from 748 00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:37,760 this or from something like this. It's so by two 749 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,559 thousand and two, three four, Putin's policy started in of course, 750 00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:47,039 you know, Putin became immensely popular, you know, by by 751 00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:50,199 by throwing these people in in in prison that they 752 00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:53,360 should they should be in prison, made them when exile instead. 753 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,519 This popularity has never gone down since then for that 754 00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:00,960 very reason. And then the economy was able to take 755 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,079 off as a result. Now, of course, I know this 756 00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:09,760 is a totally different story, but but this, this book, this, 757 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,159 but what it did to Russia. And how long did 758 00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:15,440 it take to show up in English? I remember talking 759 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,440 about it too years for even a couple of sentences 760 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,159 to show up. I was the only one. I had 761 00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:25,960 a couple of my papers I had three or four 762 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:33,800 like paragraphs that I had translated myself. But in terms 763 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,599 of the entire book, it took a very long time. 764 00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:40,960 And we all know what well the reason for it, 765 00:54:42,119 --> 00:54:46,519 and you know what, to be honest with you, maybe 766 00:54:46,559 --> 00:54:49,480 I have to because of what I do full time. 767 00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:53,000 I don't have to see what the official translation is 768 00:54:53,039 --> 00:54:58,480 going to be. But there's no getting out of this, 769 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:03,440 there's no unless they just canmpletely mutilate the language. You know. 770 00:55:03,519 --> 00:55:08,639 The moral of the story is ethnic organization. There's no 771 00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:14,519 content concept of supremacy necessarily bringing out the best traits 772 00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:18,920 of whatever group you're in. Every every ethnic group has 773 00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:27,119 as different traits and protecting that culture. That's the nature 774 00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:31,920 of justice, you know, in a very broad sense, you know. 775 00:55:33,679 --> 00:55:35,519 And that's the that's the moral of the stories so far. 776 00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,960 That's that's that's why, you know. Yeah, they had to 777 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:45,800 do time, but their time wasn't nearly as awful as 778 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,480 it would have been otherwise. And the Russians, because they 779 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,440 were fighting each other all the time, they're the ones 780 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,320 who did all the hard work and the suffered by 781 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:53,719 far more than anybody else. 782 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,039 Speaker 1: All right, we'll pick it up and finish this chapter. 783 00:55:57,159 --> 00:55:59,880 On the next go round. I encourage everyone to go 784 00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:02,239 to the show notes and go to the descriptions in 785 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,840 the videos. There. I have linked the articles and I 786 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,559 also have linked how you can support doctor Johnson's work. 787 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,880 Go ahead and do that. And also I have a 788 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:13,880 link to his new books to go buy that. That's 789 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,760 another way of supporting him. So yeah, that's it, doctor Johnson. 790 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,239 Glad you're feeling better, and you know, rest up and 791 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:23,760 see you on the next go run. 792 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,079 Speaker 2: Yes, my friend, thank you very much. I appreciate it.