Speaker 1: Hey, listen, Commanders Who Got Podcast Episode four eighty nine.
Speaker 1: I'm brand O, here's Ryan and I We're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about the band. Listen another game changing changes now are
Speaker 1: hey Ryan, We're back for yet another whirlwind adventure. How
Speaker 1: you do it?
Speaker 2: Oh baby? Good? What is going down?
Speaker 1: The whole ton is going down. We got some very exciting, slash, interesting,
Speaker 1: slash kind of soft news from the Rules Advisory Committee.
Speaker 2: Board, Commander Format Panel, the CFP.
Speaker 3: THEFF, the KUFF straight off the kuff.
Speaker 1: They have already ruled for the year with a asterix
Speaker 1: on it. We're gonna talk about that later on the show.
Speaker 1: We've got some stories to tell, some people to thank.
Speaker 1: Before we get to any of that stuff, we have
Speaker 1: to thank reficial business daddies Fusion Gaming Online dot com.
Speaker 1: They are your source for all your gaming needs where
Speaker 1: you can use the new CEO promo code which is
Speaker 1: CECO Nation. That's it. It's pretty easy, CECO Nation, easy
Speaker 1: to remember, and you can save five percent off all
Speaker 1: of the game changing game changes that you're gonna want.
Speaker 2: To buy now, oh baby, because you're gonna wanna.
Speaker 1: All the things taken off of the game Changer's list
Speaker 1: that you're really really gonna wanna buy that.
Speaker 2: You're gonna need a discount.
Speaker 1: On and maybe some of those dastardly, dastardly new game changers.
Speaker 1: We're gonna buy those, or maybe some of the unbanned
Speaker 1: cards too.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I am so frickin pumped about the cards
Speaker 2: that got unbanned. Oh it's gonna be awesome. But we
Speaker 2: gotta thank Pile of Bones Brewing Code. They are the
Speaker 2: official sponsor of.
Speaker 1: C CEO Side season three. Now looking for applicants for
Speaker 1: the May episode, which will air soon right here on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Oh there you go, and bonus point if you're a
Speaker 2: Patreon supporter over at patreon dot com. Slash CCO podcast.
Speaker 2: I think thus far this year we've had all patrons
Speaker 2: from different cities, different provinces, different countries on the show,
Speaker 2: and I can tell you this, as of our most
Speaker 2: recent recording, I finally do have the audio issues figured out.
Speaker 1: We are sorry, editor, Tyler, I didn't know that was happening.
Speaker 1: So that Tyler, you're a fine person.
Speaker 2: He's fine. Yeah, yeah, he.
Speaker 1: Helps out lots of me to our streams.
Speaker 3: Well yeah yeah, he just bugs me. He just beaks
Speaker 3: me the whole time, beating sometimes I'm not even.
Speaker 1: Here, and sometimes he helps us out. It's like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: what the hell is this? And then he like looks
Speaker 1: it up for us and then we oh, cool, very good. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a good man to have around anytime he is around.
Speaker 2: So yeah, very much. We appreciate producer Gary and him
Speaker 2: letting us be here taking up all his time when
Speaker 2: he's actually busy. Today at the Dufferin Avenue Media Network Studio, Network.
Speaker 1: Studio, Studio Network Studio.
Speaker 2: Yes, very much, so happy to be here, happy to
Speaker 2: talk about game changers, happy to say that right after
Speaker 2: this recording, you're good friend Ryan, Uncle Brando, we are
Speaker 2: freakin' booking the CEO Experience Las Vegas House. I want
Speaker 2: to get the tabs out of my browser. I want
Speaker 2: to get it all up onto the CECO website for
Speaker 2: the patrons that'll be joining us there. Big shout out
Speaker 2: to you if you reached out and said, hey, do
Speaker 2: I have to freaking pay for this thinking that you
Speaker 2: missed it? But you haven't missed it yet because I
Speaker 2: haven't done it.
Speaker 1: But we will be doing it in the next call
Speaker 1: it hour and fifteen minutes, Yes, sir, because that gives
Speaker 1: us an hour to record the show, yes sir, and
Speaker 1: then fifteen minutes to actually get the job done. Five
Speaker 1: of those minutes will be actually work, and it'll be
Speaker 1: fucking around most likely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when that happens, you'll be the patrons that
Speaker 2: are coming, will be the first to get a look
Speaker 2: at the new merch, what the new shirts look like,
Speaker 2: what the Ceco experience stuff looks like. And of course
Speaker 2: the patrons after all of that gets created, will be
Speaker 2: the first to hear about it and see it and
Speaker 2: the first to get a discount on it at at
Speaker 2: Commander Couco dot com. Yeah, so that's one of the
Speaker 2: benefits becoming a patron. So fricking do it, because we
Speaker 2: would love the support now that we've got to do
Speaker 2: everything ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I miss Joe. Although it did give me an
Speaker 1: opportunity to see if I can draw with a mouse.
Speaker 1: Yet I thought, maybe after all these years of not
Speaker 1: doing it, maybe I just became good at it. And
Speaker 1: I think that I'm fine.
Speaker 2: I'm shaking my head. You'd know if you're watching on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Which it should be, and you're going to see some
Speaker 1: of my artwork. Again, if you're watching on YouTube, you're
Speaker 1: gonna see some some original brandos pop up Oh Brand Originals.
Speaker 2: Yes, I didn't know that I was going to say
Speaker 2: that when I started saying that. But we did get there.
Speaker 2: You did get I do have to have one more
Speaker 2: thing to say. Oh shit, not deserted temple a. You
Speaker 2: got there. Shout out to editor Joe. Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 2: las thing. I didn't even tell you this before we started,
Speaker 2: but I see it in my notes. I started the
Speaker 2: Ryan Pineff original original playmat and sleeve art, and it
Speaker 2: looks fricking better. I thought it was going to.
Speaker 1: Of course it does. You probably thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: look like shit because you don't take any into account
Speaker 1: that you're a very talented artist and you have no
Speaker 1: self confidence, whereas I'm very confident, and the member of
Speaker 1: the nations all think that you were gonna do a
Speaker 1: great job. And now we're not surprised.
Speaker 2: It looks so good, that the color is so nice,
Speaker 2: and I'm tweaking up the design a little bit, you'll
Speaker 2: still like it. It's still something you like.
Speaker 1: Is there a dinosaur in a bubble helmet?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Maybe shut up Berno?
Speaker 1: Oh, is it actually doesn't actually have a dinosaur in
Speaker 1: a bubble helmet?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: This is very exciting. It's so very exciting.
Speaker 2: Like everything else. Our members in our discord that are
Speaker 2: our Patreon supporters would be the first to see that
Speaker 2: and get all the details when that Kickstarter stuff goes live,
Speaker 2: and I'm shooting for Vegas because I would love to
Speaker 2: tell people and show people and showcase like the art
Speaker 2: and the sleeves and the play mat and stuff like,
Speaker 2: even if it's just on my fricking phone, I would
Speaker 2: love to show that off in Vegas in June when
Speaker 2: the Kickstarter is live, to kind of like give it
Speaker 2: some momentum. That's good idea.
Speaker 1: Hey, that momentum is always good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the unless unless you're getting hit by like
Speaker 2: a bus.
Speaker 1: What if you're the one here.
Speaker 2: Momentum is always good unless it's freaking unbans or bands.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah that was remember remember last September and
Speaker 2: then the rollout of the bracket matchmaking system, which I
Speaker 2: think was good.
Speaker 1: It's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we've got our first update the bracket system.
Speaker 2: Sorry I jumped right into it. Do not changing really
Speaker 2: some verbiage on like the graphics that they show people.
Speaker 2: They've changed a couple of words.
Speaker 3: We're not talking about that The first thing we're going
Speaker 3: to talk about today, baby.
Speaker 2: Unbans. There is unbands.
Speaker 1: They're free, free, these cards are free. They were banned
Speaker 1: and now they are unbanned. We had all sorts of
Speaker 1: things to say about them. Last week. We made our
Speaker 1: predictions about what would and would not be unbanned.
Speaker 2: Who did you predict? I know that I said Coalition.
Speaker 2: I've been saying Coalition victory for months.
Speaker 1: I said Bio Rhythm and Jeweled Lotus. And I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised if Primetime came off. Oh I don't count
Speaker 1: that one necessarily as a prediction. Yeah, be surprised.
Speaker 2: You know what they they gave me unbanned that I
Speaker 2: didn't even know I wanted. They unbanned things that I
Speaker 2: thought were gonna be banned as fuck forever forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought so too. And we're gonna tell
Speaker 1: you about that when we get to those cards.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, are we getting to it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is what's the first card? This card? In
Speaker 1: so ways, so many ways. Oh, for the record, if
Speaker 1: you're watch it on YouTube and you want to pick
Speaker 1: up any of these cards as of the printing date,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at the show and the cards on
Speaker 1: the screen. I have put the cheapest available printing of
Speaker 1: each card as of this moment on the show right now.
Speaker 2: Oh so this is the Jasis Spellbook version of Gifts
Speaker 2: on given.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is the least expensive if you want to
Speaker 1: play a Gifts Ungiven in your deck and you don't
Speaker 1: want to play an Intuition, which was never banned, although
Speaker 1: it's the same card essentially and costs approximately one thousand
Speaker 1: percent more money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what the other thing about Intuition
Speaker 2: is is they unbanned and put onto the Game Changer's list.
Speaker 2: That's how it works. When you get unbanned, you put
Speaker 2: on a game changer list. It's not just free for
Speaker 2: all jerk off. You can put it in any deck. No,
Speaker 2: they got to be on the game Changers list. That's
Speaker 2: one of the reasons that the Game Changers List went
Speaker 2: up by five.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyways, the thing about Intuition older I think reserved list. Yeah,
Speaker 2: probably it is same card. So why why shouldn't Gifts
Speaker 2: Ungiven be u banned?
Speaker 1: It has I think this is just me.
Speaker 2: Spit hold on because I know that I know that
Speaker 2: people on the internet could get mad at me calling
Speaker 2: them the same card. I know that they're not the
Speaker 2: same fucking card. I know that, but they do a
Speaker 2: very similar thing and are used in the same kinds
Speaker 2: of decks to find the same sort of redundancies or tricks,
Speaker 2: if you will, And uh, I'm gonna give it a read.
Speaker 1: Here, Okay, I'm gonna give it a read.
Speaker 2: Do it blue three?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Oh, this card is an instant. This card's instant. Okay,
Speaker 2: So search your library for up to four cards with
Speaker 2: different names and reveal them. Target opponent chooses two of
Speaker 2: those cards, put the chosen cards into your g yard
Speaker 2: and the rest into your hand. Yes, so almost every
Speaker 2: line of text on this card makes it good. It's
Speaker 2: it's type and manic coost line, it only has one
Speaker 2: blue pip yep, it's easily splashed, its name and manic
Speaker 2: cost easily splashable, easy to cast because one Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: an instant.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The first line says up to four cards, yes, so
Speaker 2: you could find two and then it just go to
Speaker 2: the bin. And then I target an opponent, I have
Speaker 2: to choose some schmuck to fucking make a wrong decision,
Speaker 2: and then the two cards that they choose go to
Speaker 2: the bin. And if I just searched for two or
Speaker 2: only three or four like that. All has different ramifications
Speaker 2: on their choice and what I chose originally.
Speaker 1: And what you find is the things you want in
Speaker 1: ways to get them. That's typically what you'll find with Yes,
Speaker 1: given and intuition, which we'll talk about later on in
Speaker 1: the show, probably more truncatedly, because everything that we say
Speaker 1: about gifts and given, we're gonna say about intuition.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The one different thing with gifts is it's you don't
Speaker 1: have to find a specified number of cards. It's up
Speaker 1: to four, you can find four, you can find none,
Speaker 1: whereas if you have to find three in with intuition.
Speaker 2: Stirs in what world do I find zero cards with gifts? Ungiven?
Speaker 1: When you're just trying to commit a crime, all you
Speaker 1: want to do is get your target.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, a storm count storm count with my library
Speaker 2: being empty, yes, or just.
Speaker 1: One card left in it and you want to shuffle
Speaker 1: because you think it's funny.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a reason or a storm count. But I
Speaker 2: need an extra turn. I'm gonna storm next turn. I
Speaker 2: have a turn on the stack. I can't draw myself dead.
Speaker 2: I've got I've got two kind of scenarios with gifts
Speaker 2: that I would like to highlight. Okay, the first one
Speaker 2: is this hypothetical world where I gifts on turn three
Speaker 2: or four and I search, and I've got creatures on
Speaker 2: the battlefield, and I search for Dread Return and some
Speaker 2: big fatty I have no business playing on turn three
Speaker 2: and I just search for those two they immediately give bind.
Speaker 2: I sack my three things, cast d red Return for free,
Speaker 2: and get my thing back, and you do and gifts
Speaker 2: U given turns into tomb and reanimate. Yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 2: as if I can't search for my combo piece and
Speaker 2: the other piece of my combo and two graveyard getterbackers
Speaker 2: like Regrowth and its friend Regrowth. Yeah, like, as if
Speaker 2: I couldn't do that, and that wasn't powerful enough, that
Speaker 2: wasn't good enough. As if in Moldrotha, I couldn't search
Speaker 2: for four different card types. And there's things that you
Speaker 2: want anyway.
Speaker 1: Two of them are in your hand where you want them,
Speaker 1: and or in your other hand where you want them anyway.
Speaker 2: Got this card every way you slice it. This card
Speaker 2: is fucked.
Speaker 1: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine you cast your twenty five point Genesis
Speaker 2: wave and you go cards in hand and I go, ah,
Speaker 2: fuck one, you go okay, Genesis Wave for twenty. I
Speaker 2: go gifts on given and then I'm tapped out and
Speaker 2: I search for freaking Pact and negation packed of force
Speaker 2: of will, fierce Guardianship. I search for four free counter spells. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I just counter your sh yet and I still
Speaker 2: have a free counter smell on my fucking hand After that,
Speaker 2: all this card is so good. I'm so happy. Are
Speaker 2: you gonna play this card at any decks?
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't play the decks that it goes in.
Speaker 1: I am the decks that I play that it would
Speaker 1: go in doesn't have blue, So no, not for me.
Speaker 2: The deck that this card's going in already has intuition.
Speaker 2: I got two fuck h cards an instant.
Speaker 1: It is let's see the next card one, let's se
Speaker 1: let's see the next one. There this one.
Speaker 2: Who had this on their Bengal card.
Speaker 1: I honestly thought that this one would stay banned just
Speaker 1: because why did why not? I think they just unbanned
Speaker 1: it to unban it. World Fire Stars, World Fires unbanned
Speaker 1: Sway of the Stars now on banned as unbanned. It's
Speaker 1: a sorcery for blue Blue fucking.
Speaker 2: Eight might as well be blue blue eighty six or
Speaker 2: blue blue nothing, because it doesn't it doesn't matter. If
Speaker 2: you're gonna cast it, you're gonna cast it exactly.
Speaker 1: You shuffle your hands, your graveyard and all your permanence
Speaker 1: into your library draws seven, your life total becomes seven.
Speaker 2: Everybody does that.
Speaker 1: It's shitty. World Fire is what it is.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I loved the reasoning from Gavin's article because,
Speaker 2: like I read through the whole thing and he said,
Speaker 2: people who like this kind of spell and play World Fire,
Speaker 2: now they have another thing that if Sway the Stars happens,
Speaker 2: it doesn't make me feel as bad as Worldfire because
Speaker 2: probably I don't lose right there, and I have this chance.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. I've played magic for twenty some years,
Speaker 2: and so of you, Yeah, guarantee you'd never sway to
Speaker 2: the start, sways sway of the started, not one time.
Speaker 2: You've never swayed. No, you've never starred.
Speaker 1: No, I've upheevled, never swayed.
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe before we die, maybe we'd like to sway.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, never once.
Speaker 2: No I want to sway.
Speaker 1: I'll just play World Fire. It's red.
Speaker 2: It's better I'll play sway it's blue, and we'll do
Speaker 2: the thing like that. Whereas Walder book where the fire
Speaker 2: major is shooting fire and the water major is shooting
Speaker 2: water and their streams are hitting the stream.
Speaker 3: It's the only time I ca compete with you with stream.
Speaker 3: That's the only time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, garden hose versus one of those little droppers.
Speaker 2: A bendy straw. Yes, I'm the bendy straw. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: Sway the stars, man, I hear what else I would
Speaker 2: have to say about it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna see so little play, I would say, sway
Speaker 1: the star is going to see so little play anywhere
Speaker 1: that it's just one of those cars that who cares.
Speaker 2: Yeah, intuition, very play, sway very not play, very no
Speaker 2: play Okay, exact pushber braids.
Speaker 1: Now. Lots of people I saw were pretty hard about this.
Speaker 1: Oh braids. I can't wait to braids everybody on turn
Speaker 1: one and make everybody scoop. And that's why this doesn't
Speaker 1: really impact anything. She's gonna go in the ninety nine deck,
Speaker 1: in the ninety nine of the deck that already does
Speaker 1: what she does, which is turgrad, and she's fine there
Speaker 1: because that's what that deck's doing and everybody knows that,
Speaker 1: and it was just at the helm of the deck.
Speaker 1: This is this might be a hot take. There isn't
Speaker 1: a fair Braids. You can't say, oh, no, it's not
Speaker 1: the Braids, because yes, it is. Every Braid's deck is
Speaker 1: that Braids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll ask you. Do you play sol ring in
Speaker 2: your Braid's deck, because if you go Swamp soul Ring
Speaker 2: turn one, Swamp Braids turn two, you're that deck, even
Speaker 2: if you didn't, even if you think that you're not.
Speaker 1: Then you then you just have to maintain one permanent
Speaker 1: coming into play every turn, and you can kill your
Speaker 1: opponents with a two to two in one of the
Speaker 1: most miserable games they'll ever play.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's kind of funny that that Braids
Speaker 2: and tur Grid are not the same deck, but they're
Speaker 2: both mono black commanders that are on the game changers
Speaker 2: list for what I would call the same reason. It's
Speaker 2: a similar reason you have miserable games that remove your
Speaker 2: opponents agency. And like tur Grid, she's the helm of
Speaker 2: the deck and everybody knows that or she ain't. And
Speaker 2: it's like turn seven, Braids is not anything to worry about.
Speaker 2: It's like I would be more worried if somebody dropped
Speaker 2: a turn three, four, five, six seven Fleshbag marauder. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then a Braid's because it's like, oh, that's going to
Speaker 2: impact me right now, and maybe they're going to sack it,
Speaker 2: reanimate it or blanket or flicker it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right with flesh bag. I just played fricking Merciless Executioner
Speaker 2: last night in a pre con and it did more
Speaker 2: work than a Braid's would it did? Yeah, in my
Speaker 2: Lord of the Ring, Salaron back, guys, because.
Speaker 1: You have to remember, braids gives the opponent the choice,
Speaker 1: and the opponent will never choose the thing that you
Speaker 1: want ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if they only have one thing, they're going
Speaker 2: to prioritize removal and then removal again and removal again,
Speaker 2: and like this is it's off. It's it's off the
Speaker 2: band list because it's not going to be the problem
Speaker 2: that you think it is. And if it is because
Speaker 2: somebody in your playgroup or in the wild built the
Speaker 2: Braid's deck, even if it's unintentional, we have other tools
Speaker 2: like talking to people before the game starts and says, oh, wait,
Speaker 2: that's your commander.
Speaker 3: Ah, I don't want to do that I'm playing a
Speaker 3: deck that has no removal. It's super casual.
Speaker 2: I don't think this is my game, or I'm going
Speaker 2: to change decks or can you change decks. There's all
Speaker 2: these scenarios that make it not a big deal.
Speaker 1: And if they say absolutely not, I'm only playing Braids
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm doing, then you have the option
Speaker 1: to just fucking beat and that guy can sit there
Speaker 1: by himself pound in his pot, and that's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I'll bet you Braids comes off the Game Changer list,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and just goes into gen Pop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, gen Pop.
Speaker 1: I like that, Like if Turgrid is the.
Speaker 2: There's our new graphic look.
Speaker 1: At eh oh, that's fun. I think that Braids is
Speaker 1: just She's fine.
Speaker 2: Nation, pick up your Braids is I don't think she's
Speaker 2: going to be the most expensive game Changer edition of
Speaker 2: the uh not of the list today. That's gonna be
Speaker 2: Champions of Camagawa Foils from of.
Speaker 3: Gifts and given that's gonna be the most expensive card
Speaker 3: probably right, Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Next card Coalition Victory. I think I think you called it.
Speaker 1: I said that you were right, So I'm counting it
Speaker 1: as a half point for myself, our winner of the
Speaker 1: boost Back game, and the pre show also said that
Speaker 1: they were hoping this one came off. Yeah, lots of
Speaker 1: people are excited about this. We've gone on ad no
Speaker 1: you about why this is totally fine to come off
Speaker 1: the band last. Here it is, We got it. Are
Speaker 1: you gonna jam it into every multi color deck you play,
Speaker 1: every five color deck that you play, just so that
Speaker 1: you can fucking win immediately?
Speaker 2: Won't? Have you ever heard of terror terminate doom Blade?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because this checks on resolution yep. So if I
Speaker 2: spend five mana probably or more for my five mata commander, yep.
Speaker 2: And then I spent eight mana, that's at least thirteen
Speaker 2: And I still have to have said commander when this resolves,
Speaker 2: and if I don't, I've spent thirteen to do fucking
Speaker 2: nothing is nothing? Yeah?
Speaker 3: If you used it in Child of a Lara when
Speaker 3: I add Naus into it, a game changed into my
Speaker 3: game Changer and took eight and lost the game.
Speaker 1: And then you went for eight and then they killed
Speaker 1: the Child of a Lara and blew it. Doesn't it blow?
Speaker 1: A player lands too? It was of all the non
Speaker 1: land permanence. It's like Sen, you wouldn't have the five
Speaker 1: colored creature or the five types, so you would just
Speaker 1: have nothing. I would just have nothing. You have nothing.
Speaker 2: My game would certainly have been changed.
Speaker 1: Yes for the worst. And I again, this is fine.
Speaker 2: I like in Gavin's article and I'm not gonna find
Speaker 2: it where he said it. But one of the things
Speaker 2: that they took into account is nostalgic reasons. Cards that
Speaker 2: have a legacy, cards that make people feel something when
Speaker 2: when they get played. And this is one for me.
Speaker 2: Like I opened a Coalition Victory out of a booster
Speaker 2: pack when I was like in grade six and I
Speaker 2: still have it. Yeah, So I gotta find a placeboard.
Speaker 1: Good Luck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Child of Alara. That's the only place and it's
Speaker 2: not going in there, So time to build another deck. Ryan,
Speaker 2: Oh baby, this out of a booster too.
Speaker 1: This is the big one. I think this is the
Speaker 1: big one. I think no, I think Gifts is this
Speaker 1: is what everybody's talking about. Gifts is the biggest, baddest
Speaker 1: card that you got. But I feel like this is
Speaker 1: the one that's probably gonna have the most effect at
Speaker 1: a three level.
Speaker 2: Do you remember over the last couple months we were
Speaker 2: playing the game like this card or this card one
Speaker 2: has to get unbanned.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: If you put in the unbanned racket in the March
Speaker 2: Madness freaking game change or unbanned bracket Panoptic Mirror and
Speaker 2: Gifts ungiven, I would have snap said gifts un given
Speaker 2: me too. And that is the most wild thing to say,
Speaker 2: because that's one of the most powerful tutors in magic
Speaker 2: the gathering, because you can search for four cards and
Speaker 2: people are still saying no pentoptic Mirror.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, oh, and the reason that panoptic Mirror, which
Speaker 1: is an artifact for five that has imprint X and
Speaker 1: tap or x, is the spell that you are imprinting
Speaker 1: onto its converted manecost. At the beginning of your upkeep,
Speaker 1: you get to cast one of the spells that has
Speaker 1: been imprinted on Panoptic Mirror. And everybody said, well, you
Speaker 1: just gonna put a time warp on it, and then
Speaker 1: you have infinite turns and you've won the game. And
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 2: It's it's copy, it's not cast. I just I just
Speaker 2: reread it again. Anyways, you still you get it, get it.
Speaker 1: You get a time warp at the beginning of every
Speaker 1: time warp turn giving you infinite turns meaning you've won
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 2: Or a wrath of God or a farewell or a balance. Oh,
Speaker 2: you won't get balance.
Speaker 1: That's a restore balance.
Speaker 2: Restore balance.
Speaker 1: Restore balance is balance, and you know how much it
Speaker 1: costs zero So you can play Panoptic Mirror hap it
Speaker 1: put restore balance on it. At the beginning of every
Speaker 1: one of your turns, you cast.
Speaker 2: Balance ancestral visions.
Speaker 1: It's another one ancestral recall, yes.
Speaker 2: But visions correct. Yes. And the thing about this is
Speaker 2: every one of your turns you can pay X and
Speaker 2: exile a card to imprint it on Panoptic Mirror. So
Speaker 2: then you have like this little cachet of spells that
Speaker 2: you can choose from that you can only choose one.
Speaker 2: But let's say you do a time stretch so you
Speaker 2: get two extra turns. You only have to time stretch
Speaker 2: every second turn, so you can Panoptic Mirror something else
Speaker 2: on every other turn. Sure, like, that's great, but you
Speaker 2: need to do that. Where I expect to see this
Speaker 2: card is index that are already chaining extra turns together.
Speaker 1: Which is it just makes the game end fast, which
Speaker 1: I feel like most of your opponents are gonna want
Speaker 1: to do when you're chaining extra turns.
Speaker 2: It already it gives you extra turn chaining redundancy. So
Speaker 2: decks are already doing that. So this already exists only
Speaker 2: in bracket probably four if we're sticking to the hard
Speaker 2: and fast bracket system, right, because you can't chain extra
Speaker 2: turns and bracket three. Sure, sure, or it's gonna go
Speaker 2: in hard control or like decks that are trying to
Speaker 2: be stacked decks without playing cards like Winter Urban, blood
Speaker 2: Moon and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: In Ista ply Winter Urb and blood Moon, they'll play fucking Armageddon.
Speaker 2: They'll play or Wrathagod or Farewell or something like that
Speaker 2: on their Panoptic Mirror so they can do it every
Speaker 2: turn and essentially lock the board out of creatures. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they'll do in their al Drasi deck, they'll do all
Speaker 2: his dust.
Speaker 1: Sure, I just thought of that. That'd be pretty freaking good.
Speaker 1: This is true. Panoptic Mirror would not get got by
Speaker 1: knowledge dust.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's great. Put it alongside your dark
Speaker 2: Steel Forge to make your Panoptic Mirror industry truc.
Speaker 1: Sure, that would be good.
Speaker 2: That would be very good. I think the card's fine.
Speaker 1: Those are all worst case scenarios. Of course, this is
Speaker 1: one of the cards. Like when we were talking about Braids,
Speaker 1: there is no not that Braid's deck deck. I think
Speaker 1: that you can play Panoptic Mirror fairly and successfully by
Speaker 1: putting any of the cards that you're thinking of in
Speaker 1: your head on it. A lightning bolt, a boomerang. The
Speaker 1: counterpell wouldn't do any good.
Speaker 2: But like, yeah there's counter spell with cascade. No that
Speaker 2: still doesn't work. Yeah it does, No, it doesn't. I
Speaker 2: don't care. I'm thinking of like entish restoration saka Land
Speaker 2: search for three Land. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, you can put so many cards that are
Speaker 1: totally fair on a panoptic Mirror and it's not going
Speaker 1: to blow the game up. It has to be a
Speaker 1: game changer because of the scenarios that we just talked about,
Speaker 1: changing extraturns, infinite balance, infinite wrath of God, infinite fucking box.
Speaker 1: You know right, those are all things that it happened.
Speaker 1: Not that I thought about that and putting Turgert back
Speaker 1: together so I can panoptic pox everybody, but I did
Speaker 1: think about doing that. You're That's why I was looking
Speaker 1: That's literally why I was looking for my panoptic mirrors,
Speaker 1: so I could do that if I find it. Turgert's
Speaker 1: going back together, so I can panoptic box fanatic. But
Speaker 1: it didn't happen. So here we sit, nobody has to
Speaker 1: worry about that.
Speaker 2: Nobody has to worry about get Oh, that's funny. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that this one's coming off
Speaker 1: the bat or off the band list is wait and see.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's gonna be okay, and I'm
Speaker 1: willing to wait and see to see if it's going
Speaker 1: to be as brutal as people think it is. For
Speaker 1: all the reasons.
Speaker 2: That we can't it ain't want to chain extra turns together.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have freaking ten manna to start, and then
Speaker 2: like it's got to survive, Like there's so many things.
Speaker 1: If you have the ten manna to start, it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to survive because you get all the turns at
Speaker 1: that point.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I could just shatter it, well, couldn't I?
Speaker 1: In response to you activating it yet, Hell yeah, you
Speaker 1: had to spend ten and you got nothing but one.
Speaker 3: Just it's just like casting a frickin' Uh. What was
Speaker 3: the what was the freaking last one Coalition victory. I
Speaker 3: could spend thirteen and I could get nothing out of it.
Speaker 3: This is the same thing. I gotta spend ten and I.
Speaker 1: Could get between ten and eleven and get nothing. It
Speaker 1: doesn't wield the turn, is what I'm saying. Yeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 1: You don't get another turn cycle like they have to
Speaker 1: have it in hand and mana to cast it at
Speaker 1: the time when you play Panoptic Mirror, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do the thing, yes, it costs ten. Yeah, yeah, all
Speaker 1: the message there, but and it's fine.
Speaker 2: Playing paying ten sway the stars ten great hoof eight
Speaker 2: like sure, fine whatever that one l drowsy spell that
Speaker 2: does cause like lulamug and im were cool at the
Speaker 2: same time. Yeah, probably gonna win the game that actually.
Speaker 3: Gives you an extra turn as it does miror right
Speaker 3: like insurrection, these are cards that should end the game.
Speaker 1: Actually, that would probably is not the best card you
Speaker 1: can put on a Panoptic Mirror, not time stretch.
Speaker 2: No, I don't know, man, I think that that Insurrection's
Speaker 2: more epic.
Speaker 1: I think that the cause of like ulamog amor a
Speaker 1: cool thing like you get an extra turn and you
Speaker 1: blow up somebody's thing and you draw four cards on
Speaker 1: all of your infinite turns, so it's not like you're
Speaker 1: just attacking with a shitty one one that has to
Speaker 1: kind of get in. You're not looking for a way
Speaker 1: to do it. That card and anything in play will
Speaker 1: do it for you. Yes, and I think that that's
Speaker 1: a good card. I'm going to be said about that.
Speaker 2: What it's called, I don't care what it's. What's our
Speaker 2: next card? Oh oh wait, Rick.
Speaker 1: Maybe I put that in there by a mistake because
Speaker 1: I was so excited to play my jeweled Lotuses again.
Speaker 2: For people driving in their cars. It's jeweled Lotus. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get a shirt made free jeweled Lotus, not kickers.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna petition.
Speaker 1: I can't freakable. I can't believe it.
Speaker 2: Do you think any politicians running in the in the
Speaker 2: upcoming Canadian election do you think it's in their campaign
Speaker 2: promises to unbanned jeweled Lotus.
Speaker 1: I'd vote for them if it was.
Speaker 2: I would vote for them if it was.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmmmmmmm. The point is this card can be unbanned,
Speaker 1: and it should be unbanned right now, right now. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to wait until next goddamn April and I
Speaker 1: realized that they didn't take it off the list because
Speaker 1: they don't want to validate threats against people in the
Speaker 1: community and they don't want to look at their cow
Speaker 1: towing to wizards. We're saying, listen here, you bunch of
Speaker 1: fucking sweaty neck beard nerd bitches, we want you to
Speaker 1: unban our ability to print one hundred dollars bills into
Speaker 1: packs of cards. And they don't want to appear like
Speaker 1: their cow towing to either of those segments of the population.
Speaker 1: So Jewel Lotus Alas remains in jail until next April,
Speaker 1: when it will come off or else. I think that
Speaker 1: by or else, I mean I will complain about it
Speaker 1: until next time.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the good good qualifier. Yeah, because or else
Speaker 2: this is how we got into this trouble exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't want to contribute to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think you read between the lines there.
Speaker 2: They can't just back down from this kind of scenario,
Speaker 2: and they have to say, hey, listen, we want to
Speaker 2: give this a chance. There's kind of two camps like
Speaker 2: absolutely keep it banned, absolutely unbanned, and there's nobody in
Speaker 2: the middle. It's like, well, whatever care. And usually that's
Speaker 2: where I am, but I'm absolutely unbanned this card. I
Speaker 2: don't think it signals like, oh, we're weak or wrong
Speaker 2: or cowardly, or that kind of discourse from the community
Speaker 2: is effective and works. I don't think it signals any
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: I don't either.
Speaker 2: I like their ability to put it into command or
Speaker 2: specific sets. I think it's actually net positive for the format.
Speaker 2: I think more often than not it's relegated to higher
Speaker 2: power and seedh games, where where it is a welcome addition.
Speaker 2: I think from my experience there, I think, and I've
Speaker 2: said this before late game, it gives you the ability
Speaker 2: to continue to cast your commander and thereby contribute to
Speaker 2: your strategy and the game overall. Keep playing the game,
Speaker 2: which I think are all positives. And if it's wait
Speaker 2: until next year September April, whenever it is, and then
Speaker 2: it gets unbanned, I'll be happy. Sure, that's great because
Speaker 2: we get it back, because we get it. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: if it doesn't, man, I will continue to beat this drum.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, we will have this exact conversation again a
Speaker 1: year from now when they do the next on banning.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna move to the next picture.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Oh, shit cards that are not good
Speaker 1: anymore because they were cut from the freakin game changer list.
Speaker 2: Gay changer cuts, okay, game changer cuts, and these ones
Speaker 2: are the ones that are gonna be.
Speaker 1: They're just they're not even gonna count for points anymore.
Speaker 1: You can play them willy nilly. They can go wherever
Speaker 1: you want play them. There's two of them.
Speaker 2: And you can pick them up at Fusion Gaming online
Speaker 2: dot com.
Speaker 1: You use CCO Nation Holiday. Gonna move my heead CCO
Speaker 1: Nation promo code. Baby, what do I say?
Speaker 2: Nation Holiday?
Speaker 1: Yes, you did because you wanted it to be shorter.
Speaker 1: But at CECO Nation is what the new promo code is.
Speaker 1: Trouble Impairs is our first.
Speaker 2: Card T and P card draw engine in mono. Why
Speaker 2: it costs four People were comparing it touristic study though
Speaker 2: it ain't not at all, not close, No, but I
Speaker 2: can see why, like draw extra cards. When you do
Speaker 2: extra cards and they just put a bunch of new
Speaker 2: cards onto the game changer's list, that that effect or
Speaker 2: limit or reduce or penalize your opponents for drawing extra
Speaker 2: This rewards me for you drawing extra.
Speaker 1: Now you're doing what you're doing, and I'm not stopping you,
Speaker 1: but I'm benefiting from it. I think that that's fine.
Speaker 2: That's not taking away any of your agency or weaponizing
Speaker 2: your card draw. It's just giving me what you also have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's in white. It's white white too. I've
Speaker 1: I've seen this card played lots of times. I've seen
Speaker 1: it do nothing and I have seen it take over
Speaker 1: a game. I've seen it do both things.
Speaker 2: So average case scenario.
Speaker 1: I think, fine, it's fine. Is it absolutely fine? Card
Speaker 1: that I don't think should have been on the game
Speaker 1: Changer's list in the first place, to the point that
Speaker 1: I think they put it on there so they could
Speaker 1: take it.
Speaker 2: Off virtue signaling or no, what that wouldn't be? What
Speaker 2: would that be?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Putting it on there just to just to seem like
Speaker 2: a good guy.
Speaker 1: I think that I and this is this is where
Speaker 1: you not Brandle, You're being all conspiratorial again. But I
Speaker 1: think that there are some cards that were on the
Speaker 1: list that they put on that'll be easy cuts. I
Speaker 1: think they did some soft unbands to like kind of pad,
Speaker 1: the actual big ones, panoptic mirror, and I can remember
Speaker 1: I can give gifts on given. I think that these
Speaker 1: two off the list are to show that they will
Speaker 1: take things off the list, and I think that they
Speaker 1: purposely left cards off the original one so that they
Speaker 1: could put them on thereby demonstrating that they listen to
Speaker 1: the community and they will keep the list evolving. I
Speaker 1: think that they set all of that up ahead of
Speaker 1: times that they could have this big release come out
Speaker 1: and have everybody talk about how good the list is
Speaker 1: and how great a job they're doing and they are,
Speaker 1: but it's also kind of manufactured to make us think that.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, the point there that I liked the
Speaker 2: most is where you said to demonstrate that they're doing
Speaker 2: a good job, and they are. Yes, as long as
Speaker 2: as long as the job getting done is a good job.
Speaker 2: I don't really care that I had to wait for
Speaker 2: trouble in pairs to come off of a list. I
Speaker 2: own zero of this card. I own one, and.
Speaker 1: It's in the same deck that it was in before
Speaker 1: any of this happened. It didn't move once and I
Speaker 1: haven't played it yet since then. But like, well, that's
Speaker 1: I'm not going to count it like it's just there.
Speaker 2: That's the thing about Commander too, though, is man I
Speaker 2: could put a gifts on given in my brewvac deck tomorrow.
Speaker 2: And because I don't play as much c DH as
Speaker 2: I do more casual DH, I might not see my
Speaker 2: gifts on given until I play c EDH in Las
Speaker 2: Vegas like in June, or even after that. Like how
Speaker 2: many games of magic do you have to play with
Speaker 2: a deck randomly until you see a specific card?
Speaker 1: That would be a stat for not us.
Speaker 3: That would be a stat for our friends over at
Speaker 3: dhreck dot camus.
Speaker 1: What's the next card?
Speaker 2: Run, next card? This is the cheapest.
Speaker 1: Oh no, these are the ones since you can play
Speaker 1: these now because they're off the game changer list, I
Speaker 1: put the most expensive printings. So this is the masterpiece,
Speaker 1: turning Sphere from not having ket Caladh calades, oh g whatever.
Speaker 1: They change the name of that plane too. Trinosphere makes
Speaker 1: anything that costs less than three costs three. It has
Speaker 1: its own step, so even if it says you can
Speaker 1: play without paying its mane cost, it still costs three.
Speaker 2: The Trenis step.
Speaker 1: The trenisphere is real and you can turn it off
Speaker 1: by tapping it, which I think is really cool. And
Speaker 1: again I think that this deck, this car doesn't It's
Speaker 1: symmetrical enough that it doesn't break games wide open in
Speaker 1: all but one deck, which is yeah, Maria, and it's
Speaker 1: just fine. Yes, it closed the game down.
Speaker 2: But Blue Erza is already a game changer. And if
Speaker 2: you're playing Erza, probably you're playing.
Speaker 3: A deck that might also have winter Orb and static
Speaker 3: Orb and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Anyways, and your deck isn't a two or a three,
Speaker 2: it's a four or a five.
Speaker 1: You're never gonna run into this. I shouldn't say you're
Speaker 1: never gonna run into an inn a three, which you're
Speaker 1: probably not gonna run into it in a three, even
Speaker 1: though it's all about the number three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you have a three theme deck, a
Speaker 3: thream deck.
Speaker 2: If you will, I wish I just made that.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: If you have a thream deck or a two, a
Speaker 2: two deck.
Speaker 1: No, I can't have that. Got to be a three deck.
Speaker 2: If you have a one or a two or a three,
Speaker 2: Trinisphere in that deck is probably not a very good
Speaker 2: magic card because all of the most powerful spells game
Speaker 2: breaking stuff, and maybe even your combo cards and probably
Speaker 2: your commander costs three or more. The higher competition you go,
Speaker 2: and the more pinpoint the removal spells are the counterspells,
Speaker 2: the combos, the tutors, all of that stuff that you
Speaker 2: want to cost more doesn't get played at the lower brackets,
Speaker 2: So this kind of self police is based on the
Speaker 2: rules set of the bracket system.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is fine, It's fine to come off. I'm
Speaker 1: happy to see it come off. Not that I'm going
Speaker 1: to play it, but I think that it again, it
Speaker 1: was one of those ones that you could probably take
Speaker 1: that off. That's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah. When I saw it originally, like a few months ago,
Speaker 2: I was like, does that need to be on there?
Speaker 2: And also, oh yeah, I could see that being on there.
Speaker 1: You can make a case for it either way. But
Speaker 1: now that it's not on the list.
Speaker 2: Cool, Sure, more cards to play with?
Speaker 1: Yes, free Trinisphere Baby.
Speaker 2: What do we What have we got next to your uncle? Brand?
Speaker 2: Another piece of.
Speaker 1: Art, the new gzs Now. Originally I wanted to try
Speaker 1: and if you're watching on YouTube, which you should be,
Speaker 1: I tried to make an explosion in the corner, but
Speaker 1: I don't have like the mouse skills to make an explosion,
Speaker 1: so I just threw a tree.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was a tree.
Speaker 1: It's hard to see the trunk, but it's the tree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's I have the same problem. Hard to
Speaker 2: see the trunk.
Speaker 1: Or it's a green cloud. Either way, it could be
Speaker 1: either either the things. What's the button? So these are
Speaker 1: cards that are going on to the Game Changers list.
Speaker 2: Now, oh TP protection.
Speaker 1: We mentioned this on our or I mentioned this on
Speaker 1: our initial Game Changers discussion. Teffrey's Protection should go on
Speaker 1: there for all the same reasons that Cyclonic Rip should.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that was one of the reasons that was
Speaker 2: cited in the article that came out with this.
Speaker 1: It does all of the same stuff in a different way.
Speaker 1: You can exact same impact on a game.
Speaker 2: You can use it offensively or defensively. And some people
Speaker 2: say no, it's defensive card. No, you can use it
Speaker 2: offensively because you can full shove and then tefts protection
Speaker 2: yourself out of there and there's no consequences to your attack. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So offensively defensively it changes the dynamic of the game.
Speaker 2: It literally changes the game from a four player to
Speaker 2: a three player or or one less than there was before.
Speaker 2: And then you just come back like nothing ever happened,
Speaker 2: and it's like eh, die, or.
Speaker 1: You full shove and the I goes Oh you want
Speaker 1: to feel how hard. I could punch after you've like
Speaker 1: slapped their lips off. Yes, and they like, man, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna stop you drinks so hard and the wrath of God.
Speaker 1: I'll respond to wrath of God Protection, kill all your dudes.
Speaker 1: I want to hard, I can punch, and you're like.
Speaker 2: No, big brain play, big brain play Okay, I swing
Speaker 2: all out with you. You to you, you say you
Speaker 2: want to see a harder can punch, but really me
Speaker 2: and the other two players want you dead. And you
Speaker 2: go right before I go. So they all get around
Speaker 2: and you're tough guy. You can't be killed. You're the threat.
Speaker 2: You go all out at me because you're the tough
Speaker 2: guy that it's like, and I go, fuck test Protection
Speaker 2: and you go, oh, I on tap gank you this guy,
Speaker 2: this guy gank gank dead like oh man, Like there's
Speaker 2: so many little complex and little scenarios like that that
Speaker 2: make this card so good powerful. It's like doubling season.
Speaker 2: You ever heard of that card?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard that that's an okay card to play
Speaker 1: in Commander, But see if it made the game Changer.
Speaker 2: List, Ah, probably didn't.
Speaker 1: Humility Humility this one.
Speaker 2: I was like, what I.
Speaker 1: Honestly I've never thought about humility. It's a card that
Speaker 1: doesn't occur to me. I never really consider it a thing.
Speaker 1: And then when I saw it on the list, I
Speaker 1: wasn't show.
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, that changes the game.
Speaker 1: I absolutely understand that by definition of game changing, that
Speaker 1: is a game changing card all day long, especially in
Speaker 1: a format that's based around creatures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my strategy is usually predicated on my creatures being
Speaker 2: bigger than one.
Speaker 1: Yes and so is yours, or doing something, and this
Speaker 1: makes neither of those things a thing unless that thing
Speaker 1: is attacking or chump blocking, because that's all they do,
Speaker 1: because the one one is that attack and block brick.
Speaker 2: This card's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a good card, and I totally understand
Speaker 1: why it's on the game changer list. I don't think
Speaker 1: this is going to impact too many people because I
Speaker 1: don't think there are very many people unless they're there.
Speaker 1: Everything has to do with one level one.
Speaker 2: Oh, like mac attack, He's got everything is one deck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe maybe that's where it goes. So this deck
Speaker 1: and my Bellow deck can like fight it out little bit.
Speaker 1: This would probably beat Bellow. It's the one card.
Speaker 2: Be one one, four four, and they don't have to
Speaker 2: hasty cards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. Let's not under sell how much of
Speaker 1: a one bellow is.
Speaker 3: Okay, she'd really be a one if it was under
Speaker 3: a freaking exactly cool.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that's a good include. That's fine, dope, dope.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that that happened. What's next?
Speaker 2: Freaking wee Bo nar set like card this nar set
Speaker 2: and Notion Thief and and sort of Orchestral Masters are
Speaker 2: all on this list. They were cards like Notion Thief
Speaker 2: was a specific card that I remember saying and asking
Speaker 2: about and talking about, how come no Haullbreacher and how
Speaker 2: come Notion Thief? And I got a hundred responses producing
Speaker 2: Gary's favorite in the YouTube comments, and they they were like, well,
Speaker 2: one gives you cards, but one gives you man. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, cards is fucking better, Notion Thief is good.
Speaker 3: Oh, you don't know what you're talking about. Notion Deep
Speaker 3: is waste, or I mean, Hullbreacher is way stronger. Well,
Speaker 3: turns out and Watsie in the Commander format panel sort
Speaker 3: of agree with me that, sure, Hullbreacher is only this
Speaker 3: much freaking stronger, because that's the difference between game Changer
Speaker 3: and Band and nar set's the same, and h Orchestral
Speaker 3: Master kind of the same.
Speaker 1: I don't think that Orchestral Master is is egregious as
Speaker 1: in Commander as these other two cards are. And I
Speaker 1: know that all the all of the conversation about these
Speaker 1: cards as well, people play wheels and yes, fuck, I mean,
Speaker 1: what else do you really say about it? Right, Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. This doesn't even change those strategies because
Speaker 1: all the things where you're gonna have somebody wheel you
Speaker 1: into you draw nothing, I draw seven. All that's still
Speaker 1: gonna happen. This doesn't actually do anything because at the
Speaker 1: level of game that those exist at, these are still legals.
Speaker 1: So this doesn't change anything. And nobody in A two
Speaker 1: was playing fucking Wheel of Fortune nar Set to do
Speaker 1: fair fun things.
Speaker 2: But I think people at the level three were. And
Speaker 2: now you can't play nar Set and Notion Thief and
Speaker 2: this and this and this and this. It's the same
Speaker 2: reason cited that Manacrypt and Juid Lotus Rest in Peace,
Speaker 2: Sorry Bumped the mic are are not legal. It's because
Speaker 2: there's a redundancy of this niche effect that oh happens
Speaker 2: to be really freaking powerful. Yeah, right, It's the same
Speaker 2: reason that Tabernacle and Workshop are on the list now too,
Speaker 2: because if you lose to a five thousand dollars magic card.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's paid to win and it's fucking not fair.
Speaker 3: And oh, I wasn't born in nineteen sixty when, and
Speaker 3: I wasn't an adult when this card was printed, right,
Speaker 3: Like all that stuff comes up and nar Set and
Speaker 3: Notion Thief and Hull Breacher or kyb Wheel of Fortune,
Speaker 3: time Twister, there's another freaking multi thousand dollars magic card
Speaker 3: all belong in the same group in my eyes. The
Speaker 3: everybody draws seven and everybody draws one or none in
Speaker 3: my mind, so much of that all happens in.
Speaker 2: The same deck. Yeah that if if you're not if
Speaker 2: you're not playing at power four or five, doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: So it's like why why why?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm moving on to the next card. What is it?
Speaker 1: Orgust bowl Masters And the next one is no Notion Thief. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are the cards we're just talking about.
Speaker 2: Orchest bowl Master is actually really I like Orchestra bowl
Speaker 2: Master in like a Necuzar deck because you're like doubling
Speaker 2: up on on the damages on everything yeah, and.
Speaker 1: You're making dudes, and it's another game changer for rev.
Speaker 2: There you go, you're collecting game changers like buck.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Oh, Intuition we talked about already.
Speaker 1: We talked lots and lots and lots about intuition already.
Speaker 1: This is an instant three and it finds you three
Speaker 1: cards with different names. One goes to your hand, two
Speaker 1: goes to your bin. But they don't have to have
Speaker 1: different names. That's how I used to play it. You
Speaker 1: get three Demi God of Revenge, and they discard two
Speaker 1: Demi God of Revenge, and then you play the third
Speaker 1: one to get the other two back, and then you
Speaker 1: smack them for fifteen. Baby. I like that as a
Speaker 1: good one.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: But that's why I owned Intuition. There are people out
Speaker 1: there in the nation that like, know the value of
Speaker 1: this card and they're going, BRANDI, you fucking asshole. Of
Speaker 1: course that's what you did with that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, in your ractose sixty and four deck circa
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. Yeah, when Intuition was four dollars
Speaker 2: also yeah, yeah, and Demi God of Revenge was twenty.
Speaker 2: That's right as the standard.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Ah, what a good time. What a good time? Speaking
Speaker 2: of expensive, I didn't actually tell my gifts on given story.
Speaker 2: Oh claimed with my buddy Mitch, and it's like you
Speaker 2: and I just started playing together. I didn't even have
Speaker 2: a play group yet that so I was playing with
Speaker 2: Mitch and I cube of them and stuff. So he
Speaker 2: comes over to my house one time and he goes,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play like a powerful deck. I want to
Speaker 2: like test out this deck and show you some cards
Speaker 2: in it and stuff, because I was just getting back
Speaker 2: into magic that's how long ago.
Speaker 1: This was all right, And I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, I'll play this. I'll play this Sapperlink token deck.
Speaker 2: It's like powerful or whatever. Sure it's the first deck
Speaker 2: I ever played at your house and won a game with. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I played that deck and Mitch Turn one goes like
Speaker 2: underground CE and some bullshit and he passes and I'm like, okay, sure,
Speaker 2: I played Lanna war Elf. He goes turn two fucking
Speaker 2: something high Tide gifts on given searches for regrowth yog
Speaker 2: moths will black Lotus and mock Sapphire, and I'm like, huh, okay,
Speaker 2: I guess these two will go to your grade oh,
Speaker 2: you just get them, Yes, I just get them all back. Yes,
Speaker 2: you're right. And then he goes like dark ritual are
Speaker 2: high tided into yog moths, thing makes six manna with
Speaker 2: his black lotus and a storm counts like frickin' whatever
Speaker 2: he minds desires and then he casts five six things
Speaker 2: and then he goes Tendrils of Agony, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's the vintage down I got stormed out turned two
Speaker 2: or whatever with a you got vintage. I got gifted
Speaker 2: and stormed and lotused and everything. So he played half
Speaker 2: of the Power nine against me. Felt pretty good.
Speaker 1: That's how much it took to beat you. Yeah, pretty strong.
Speaker 1: Can you guess what this car is?
Speaker 2: Consecrated Sphinx? Yeah, this is another game changer. This guy
Speaker 2: is like Primeval Titan in that the whole game starts
Speaker 2: to revolve around him right where.
Speaker 1: Trying to kill it, clone it, revive it, or steal it.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's got to be an acronym for.
Speaker 1: That clone steel CCR CCR c c KRC.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a radio station. Yeah, c KARC consecrated
Speaker 2: Sphinx six fifty. Uh yeah, it's you know how often
Speaker 2: I run into this card.
Speaker 1: I don't see it very often anymore. When we first
Speaker 1: started playing, I remember there was a couple of games
Speaker 1: where you'd have like dueling consecrated sphinxes, yes, and it
Speaker 1: was like all draw two, all draw four, all draw two,
Speaker 1: al draw four, all draw whatever, and then two guys
Speaker 1: like fill their.
Speaker 2: Whole hands up and that's why it's banned, yeah, or
Speaker 2: game changed, and you know what it it it's kind
Speaker 2: of a farce. And two months ago, a month ago,
Speaker 2: we were talking about redundancy. How come we're seeing tutors
Speaker 2: on and off and there's a rule like what's going
Speaker 2: on with the tutors? Yea, and consecrated sphinx and trade
Speaker 2: secrets exist in the same space in my mind, if
Speaker 2: you're CCRC or cr whatever, copy and cloning, stealing, bouncing, blinking, reanimating,
Speaker 2: if you're doing all that with somebody else's consecrated sphinx,
Speaker 2: it kind of feels like I'm actually just in a
Speaker 2: trade secrets war. And because of that too soon and
Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, tariffs, And because it also gives me
Speaker 2: the on the battlefield kind of cultural vibe as Primeval Titan,
Speaker 2: like when you kind of zoom out and look at
Speaker 2: it like that. That's why it's a game changer. It's
Speaker 2: not because the effect is too powerful, like Primeval Titan
Speaker 2: searching for two lands. Not too powerful because everybody wants
Speaker 2: to do that so bad and the game just turns
Speaker 2: into Primeval Titan or Consecrated Sphinx jerk off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 2: So it's not that this card is like taboo or
Speaker 2: like you should be shunned or whatever. If you play
Speaker 2: this in one of your.
Speaker 1: Decks, it does tell you six cards, but round of
Speaker 1: the table unless it's been removed.
Speaker 2: It does, which is this is the kind of card
Speaker 2: though it costs six and is easily dealt with and
Speaker 2: doesn't have that big of an impact through attacking to
Speaker 2: further your strategy. Like if somebody said, I actually have
Speaker 2: an upgrade pre con it's got a Consecrated Sphinx in it.
Speaker 2: This is the first card that I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, sure,
Speaker 2: it's sure, I'll just kill it.
Speaker 1: I guess I've seen them in games and it's not
Speaker 1: even like, man, that's not even the worst thing that's
Speaker 1: in play right now. I've certainly been in games that
Speaker 1: there's like there like that.
Speaker 2: I've certainly won games because of it too, me too so.
Speaker 1: When but those were again in the kind of the
Speaker 1: before times when it was a little more wild westy,
Speaker 1: and I feel like this just doesn't because it gets
Speaker 1: so much hate already. I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: people just stopped playing it at a particular level. And
Speaker 1: maybe it's just the level that we play at. I
Speaker 1: feel like people have kind of abandoned this card and
Speaker 1: it's not as big as you're either just gonna play
Speaker 1: auristic study you're gonna be that guy, yeah, or you're
Speaker 1: gonna just do something else, you know what.
Speaker 2: And this again speaks to its game changerness, is I
Speaker 2: don't want to pay six mana and have my thing
Speaker 2: immediately die. And that's what's gonna happen when I play this.
Speaker 2: So it's like when I'm playing at power level two
Speaker 2: or three, let's call it casual or upgraded casual. It's like, man,
Speaker 2: this card isn't even gonna be effective. It's not gonna
Speaker 2: do what I want. It's not going to further my
Speaker 2: strategy in a traditional sense they're attacking. The best it's
Speaker 2: probably gonna do is make them discard a card by
Speaker 2: killing it, or it's gonna absorb like a big attacker
Speaker 2: because they're hitting me for ten because they want the
Speaker 2: Sphinx dead and they want to they want to like
Speaker 2: shove and see what I do.
Speaker 1: The most expedient way to get rid of a consecrated
Speaker 1: spank is to kill the person that played it.
Speaker 3: And when you get to a higher power level, the
Speaker 3: priorities just change.
Speaker 2: Right. I have to stop you from doing the thing
Speaker 2: that you're gonna do that's immediately going to end the game,
Speaker 2: so that consecrated Sphinx can actually stay there and maybe
Speaker 2: it will glean you some value. And it's again just
Speaker 2: a little bit self polices, and that's what I think
Speaker 2: I would lean on with this bracket system, And now
Speaker 2: the sixty one game changers is so many of them
Speaker 2: actually just self police, especially if you have like a
Speaker 2: longer standing playgroup. So moving on necro Potent necro Potents.
Speaker 1: It shocked me that this wasn't on the game changer
Speaker 1: list ye from the get go, and now it is.
Speaker 1: And I feel like we've kind of talked about this
Speaker 1: a lot. This is an exceptionally powerful magic card, an
Speaker 1: excessively powerful magic card for all the reasons that you
Speaker 1: think it's an enchantment for Black Black Black, you skip
Speaker 1: your draw step. You may pay one life to remove
Speaker 1: the top card of your library from the game. At
Speaker 1: the beginning of your next end step you put them
Speaker 1: into your hand.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: So you can take your very large health pool and
Speaker 1: turn it into a draw twenty at the end of
Speaker 1: your turn, which then turns into a discard back down
Speaker 1: to seven at the end of your turn. Or you
Speaker 1: can use it like I do, and I use it
Speaker 1: to refill my hand at the end of every turn
Speaker 1: that it's in play. Yes, I played three things. I'll
Speaker 1: pay three life to put three cards back in my
Speaker 1: hand for next turn. Yep. Necro Potents is excessively strong.
Speaker 1: It's very very very good. It stops you from decking yourself.
Speaker 1: And the what is this their at your countdown kit?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Secret layer art is super cool.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do like that. And right beside ad Nauseum
Speaker 2: on a game changer's list, I think where it belongs
Speaker 2: and probably where it should have been. And I know
Speaker 2: from a couple months ago it was considered. Because ad
Speaker 2: Nauseum was considered, this one had to have been considered,
Speaker 2: just like jog Moss Bargain was considered for unbanned because
Speaker 2: ad nauseum and necropotence exist. So ah. Gavin's article finishes
Speaker 2: saying this is never going to be unbanned though with bargain.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, we'll never see. We already have necropotents and
Speaker 1: all that. We we don't need, young Barker. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but necropotence is it should probably be there, just like
Speaker 1: deflecting SWATT probably should have been if.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if force of will and fierce guardianship are game changers,
Speaker 2: impact of negation, deflecting SWAT one hundred same game changer.
Speaker 2: It's literally counterspell for for a reproval.
Speaker 1: Spell in red.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that also gets an ability right, uh change the
Speaker 2: target of target spell or ability? Yes, yeah. Because a
Speaker 2: guy tried to freakin' uh chatterfang my anamar one time.
Speaker 2: He said, oh, it's green, it's not black, And I go,
Speaker 2: are you doing that all at once? He goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm giving it minus three all at once. Okay, I'll
Speaker 2: just chatterfang. I'll just deflecting SWAT back to chatterfang. He's
Speaker 2: gonna die, oh, and then killed him immediately. That's what
Speaker 2: you do, because he did it on his turn. And
Speaker 2: then ion tapped right after his turn and freaking comboed
Speaker 2: him and killed him.
Speaker 1: A long time stretch, Yeah, lull time stretch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, deflecting twat maybe right.
Speaker 1: Got you? Like this card should have been on there
Speaker 1: from the get go. It mesmerizes me that it was not,
Speaker 1: and now it is.
Speaker 2: And do you remember the criticism from from I guess
Speaker 2: everybody's saying, how come Blue got fifty eight cards on
Speaker 2: the Game Changer's list but Red only.
Speaker 1: Had two because we were waiting for this update.
Speaker 2: Oh that's why a conspiracy confirmed?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, conspiracy confirmed out podcast CCO.
Speaker 1: I would honestly the game pouse it that conversations that
Speaker 1: I've had with people just around the Magic space since
Speaker 1: the Game Changer list came out, almost every card that
Speaker 1: people said, well, if this is on, then why not this?
Speaker 1: So many of them, if not all of them, are
Speaker 1: on your natural order crop rotation deflecting swat, They're all here,
Speaker 1: worldly tudor they.
Speaker 2: All's slippery slope though, right, it's slippery slope, because how
Speaker 2: come this not this? How come not this? How come
Speaker 2: not this?
Speaker 1: I think that they've got all the low hanging fruit
Speaker 1: of the if this not this? And again I think
Speaker 1: it was to show that they're willing to have the
Speaker 1: list balloon a little bit, and hopefully that'll be the
Speaker 1: end of the balloonage, but we'll have to see. But
Speaker 1: I think that the way things stand right now today,
Speaker 1: this probably should wait until afterward. I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: rest of the cards. I think that the game changer
Speaker 1: list is fine.
Speaker 2: Well, let's see the next card gamble, oh gamble and
Speaker 2: crop rotation, which was if this not this one from
Speaker 2: last time and worldly tutor, if this, how come not
Speaker 2: this tutor? Redundancy rule for tutor? What like, what are
Speaker 2: we doing? And now they just said, yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 2: They didn't say this, but we're gonna remove that confusion
Speaker 2: and that redundancy and just make these game changers. I
Speaker 2: think it's a good change.
Speaker 1: I do too, even though it did take both Nora
Speaker 1: and and Ev, which are my most favoritist feel good
Speaker 1: fun decks, and put them so solidly into the fucking
Speaker 1: four category that I don't know how Mam be able
Speaker 1: to talk people.
Speaker 4: Back from it, because like, they're not force, but they're
Speaker 4: forced now because while playing two hundred goddamn game changers
Speaker 4: in them.
Speaker 3: Ah fuck, that's funny.
Speaker 2: I like that, that's funny.
Speaker 1: That's funny.
Speaker 2: Oh god, that's funny. Seedborn MWS. This is one that
Speaker 2: we asked about, okay, the.
Speaker 1: Week before, like the ed H and M Before this announcement,
Speaker 1: we actually had two separate games that evolved into can
Speaker 1: we kill this Seedborn Muse? So when I saw it
Speaker 1: on the game changer list, just because of like, what's that,
Speaker 1: what's the bias where that recently happened to me? So
Speaker 1: recncy bias, recency bias, abs the goddamnlutely seedborn muses on.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, of course. And here's the thing though, Unwinding
Speaker 2: Clock not on the list. Now, I can't as easily copy, steal,
Speaker 2: reanimate Unwinding Clock like I could Seedborn music because unwinding
Speaker 2: Clock not a creature, also only cares about artifacts, and
Speaker 2: that's something that I certainly have to build around, and
Speaker 2: it feels kind of like a step like unwinding Clock. Okay,
Speaker 2: because restrictive kind of build around the requirement. Seed Born
Speaker 2: Muse is baseline and then profit a crew fix which
Speaker 2: is lands and creatures but also gives creatures flash.
Speaker 1: That's that's why, that's why is the.
Speaker 2: Breaking point where It's like, oh, now, if we said yeah,
Speaker 2: game changer seed born muse, could we maybe say game
Speaker 2: changer profit a crew fix? Could we say that? No,
Speaker 2: you don't think.
Speaker 1: Profit gives you all the same benefits that the seedborn
Speaker 1: mews does. But it also gives you the ammo to
Speaker 1: actually play a turn on each opponent's turn. And that's
Speaker 1: the that's the difference between seedborn Muse and profit approvement.
Speaker 2: Taking up other people's time when they would normally expect
Speaker 2: to be playing magic is a profit of crew fixed thing,
Speaker 2: especially because it's like, I can, I can activate all
Speaker 2: these abilities, which is what you would want to do
Speaker 2: in Simmic bullshit.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and by the end of the round you're
Speaker 1: going to be so far ahead just because you Simmic bullshit.
Speaker 1: It so hard, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: I got two things though, Two things. First thing, firstly,
Speaker 2: they unbanned gifts on given so nothing's off the table.
Speaker 2: That's one thing.
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like there are things are off the
Speaker 1: table right now.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we Moss Barton shouldn't be off the table.
Speaker 2: Neither should freakin' Juel Lotus I keep saying. But the
Speaker 2: second thing is people are already expecting simic bullshit to
Speaker 2: do simic bullshit. Yes, so if you're just gonna simmic
Speaker 2: bullshit anyways, does does having profit akrufix unbanned and be
Speaker 2: a game changer? Does that self police?
Speaker 3: If you say, oh, yeah, i'm playing, I'm just playing
Speaker 3: my my thracios no partner deck, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: That sounds like simic bullshit.
Speaker 1: I actually don't think so, because I think that people
Speaker 1: are still of the mind that if you're just semic
Speaker 1: bullshitting really hard with no air quotes way to win,
Speaker 1: they think that that's a very casual thing to do,
Speaker 1: and they think it's fun to play on other people's
Speaker 1: urns and Lada da da da da da and take
Speaker 1: these long turns where you search for three land and
Speaker 1: put them into play and then play it to and
Speaker 1: do it every turn. And it's more obnoxious than anything else.
Speaker 1: And I think profit gets left on the game changer
Speaker 1: list because of that, and because it only goes up
Speaker 1: from there. Baseline, it's very annoying for everybody, and top
Speaker 1: end it's a really really too powerful card.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I think it too powerful, but you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Well, it's banned, so it's too powerful
Speaker 2: for it to be fun or like additive to the format.
Speaker 2: I think with Profit and Seedborn and unwinding Clock is like,
Speaker 2: take a minute to understand what they're doing. This's how
Speaker 2: I deal with it, and then every turn when they
Speaker 2: do it, just fucking ignore it. I don't know d
Speaker 2: wing yet. No, Okay, well I'm gonna see if I
Speaker 2: could top deck or removal spell kill it.
Speaker 1: I'm just still look for a way to kill Seedborn
Speaker 1: mus until I do. It's another card too, that warps
Speaker 1: the whole game around.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's why it's a game change.
Speaker 1: So she can't argue with that, right, it's a must answer.
Speaker 1: Can't ignore a threat period. Yeah, and if it's not
Speaker 1: in that deck, why you're playing it? We'll just untaps
Speaker 1: all my guys.
Speaker 2: Well, I play it in one deck that it lets
Speaker 2: me untapped guys and freaking make sapperlings every turn. And
Speaker 2: guess what, I make lots of them.
Speaker 1: Yep. I play them in decks that want to turn
Speaker 1: every single creatures in them sideways every single turn, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to give them vigilance. So Seedborn musemuse.
Speaker 2: The best vigilance provider. That's right.
Speaker 1: Plus it untaps all my lands so I can play remove.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, natural Order goes along with the tutors, right,
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think this one's a little bit different because it
Speaker 1: can turn a early game. Let's just say you go
Speaker 1: Land sol Ring go Land Land morel Natural Order, get
Speaker 1: born Clex the land fucker, yes, and like you've already
Speaker 1: kind of won that game. Yeah right, Or you get
Speaker 1: a progenitice on turn two.
Speaker 2: Ur.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it used to be the old lega na yeah.
Speaker 2: No progenitus. It was called natural Order progenitus. I called
Speaker 2: it no prog tits.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine going no prog tits and then like
Speaker 2: ramping up to coalition victory. And that's how you win.
Speaker 3: Because you can't instant speed remove progenitus because you got
Speaker 3: protection from everything.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Oh broke the Internet and I did it, got there,
Speaker 2: broke the Internet.
Speaker 1: That's why I think Natural Order is a fine game changer,
Speaker 1: because it like I think I play it fairly because
Speaker 1: I used to find a creature that I have to
Speaker 1: pay six into to make it do what I needed
Speaker 1: to do. So like I'm trying to make it fair.
Speaker 1: But every time I cast and everybody looks like Oh yeah, really, bitch,
Speaker 1: you think that's fair? Really really you think so?
Speaker 2: I actually just cut this card from my Trufas deck
Speaker 2: like before it got game changered.
Speaker 1: Because it was too good. You sacked a sap to
Speaker 1: find a crater hoof and won the game.
Speaker 2: I don't play Creator Hoof a b hathbrick rabbits. I
Speaker 2: do play that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go and Decimator of Provinces. That's like
Speaker 3: fucking team Creator.
Speaker 1: Hoof right there. So you find the Creator hoof asterisks,
Speaker 1: you find Creater Hoof at home, and you put it
Speaker 1: into play like that's why naturally it was gone. It's
Speaker 1: this redundancy of your eye fucking win the game card.
Speaker 2: Also, AI Armor the company that we're getting to make
Speaker 2: the CECO sleeves, right, they send you one hundred and
Speaker 2: five sleeves in a pack, and I just filled up
Speaker 2: all the sleeves I had until one day I dropped
Speaker 2: the deck and had to count all the cards because
Speaker 2: they fell behind the filing cabinet and I needed to
Speaker 2: make sure I had one hundred and.
Speaker 3: It turned out that I had one hundred and five owned.
Speaker 3: So a natural order came out. Yes, yeah, food chain,
Speaker 3: a chain fucking same deck, same deck one.
Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube, which you should be. I
Speaker 1: have my very favorite food chain art on this one.
Speaker 1: It's a hydra like all and all of the heads
Speaker 1: are fighting over this poor guy that they're trying to eat.
Speaker 2: I that I got a question. Sure that's French for question?
Speaker 2: Is it for anybody who isn't from a bilingual like
Speaker 2: Canada nation?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: If food chain, why not Ferrexian altar? And if no
Speaker 2: ferrexcient Altar and food chain why not? It's older uglier
Speaker 2: sister ashnouts Altar. That's like what ashnots Alter is the
Speaker 2: most egregious one on all of them.
Speaker 1: I think that this one has because they do the
Speaker 1: same thing at a level. And you're right, yes, I
Speaker 1: think that food Chain has a really really really small
Speaker 1: leg up in that in not actually that corner case
Speaker 1: as I'm thinking Prash and Avy, they just instantly win
Speaker 1: you the game. So they have like a and it's
Speaker 1: with a card in your command zone Rexian Alter ashnods Alter.
Speaker 1: You have to have something else going on in play
Speaker 1: at the time, whereas with food Chain you don't.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, because they're in your command zone. You
Speaker 2: could just cast your commander after food Chain and you
Speaker 2: get enough manager recast and recast and recast, okay, and.
Speaker 1: It just gives you the gimmick. And I think it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a hair split. But I think that this
Speaker 1: is what we want this group to do, is to
Speaker 1: split hair just to see where the line is, and
Speaker 1: food Chain is this is the line right here, Rexian arena.
Speaker 1: You can alter alter you could be here, food Chain
Speaker 1: is here, and this is the very corner case, particular
Speaker 1: reason for it. But that's why that's my thought.
Speaker 2: And that's a great thought. And I love having a
Speaker 2: line in the sand. I said that the whole time
Speaker 2: with the actual rules set that is the bracket match
Speaker 2: making system and game changers. I love the line and
Speaker 2: the rules set that gives us access to and it
Speaker 2: works like Watsi's demonstrated with data that it fucking works.
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. The problem that I
Speaker 2: have is something like food Chain is color restrictive yep,
Speaker 2: so it only goes in green decks, green X decks.
Speaker 2: The man I can only spent be spent to do
Speaker 2: creature shit right, and you have to exile the creature yep.
Speaker 2: And with FYREXI alter get man of any color like
Speaker 2: food chain, right, you only have to sacrifice, so there's
Speaker 2: actually more combos with frection Altar, and with Aschnod's Alter
Speaker 2: you get two mana, so you can usually go man
Speaker 2: a positive on your combo. It's it's like, I think
Speaker 2: all of these cards belong in the same boat or
Speaker 2: none of them do ooh, And that's my line. If
Speaker 2: food chain, then also Fyrexian Altar and also aschnods Alter.
Speaker 2: I'm not a proponent of adding more cards to the
Speaker 2: game changers list. And somebody smarter than me, Like I
Speaker 2: didn't think of the pross everything. Somebody smarter than me
Speaker 2: was in charge of doing this. So it's like, maybe
Speaker 2: there's more to it than than what what they said.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's than what I say.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's even some corner cases that we're not thinking of.
Speaker 1: But that's why I think food chain is probably on here.
Speaker 1: Nobody's doing fair shit with food chain either. I try
Speaker 1: to say that I am, and I'm not.
Speaker 2: I tried to do fair stuff with food chain and
Speaker 2: I just couldn't.
Speaker 1: Orishards. I understand this one too, for a lot of
Speaker 1: the same reasons that like humility, right, It's just one
Speaker 1: of those things that it just makes decks, it can
Speaker 1: turn off other people's decks, it can just give you
Speaker 1: an overwhelming advantage right away. And I don't think it
Speaker 1: should necessarily be a game changer in the same way
Speaker 1: I think humility should be. But I understand why this
Speaker 1: has been here because I'm certain I've certainly been salty
Speaker 1: over an oor show. Oh yeah, for sure, right versus like, well, fuck,
Speaker 1: what the fuck do I even do? Like you just
Speaker 1: for free for doing whatever your deck is already doing.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that's exactly just for virtually no drawback
Speaker 1: to you. You're just undoing everything that I do. I
Speaker 1: can't even save up treasure tokens because Celesnia is making
Speaker 1: too many creatures for anything that I'm doing. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can see why that would be a problem.
Speaker 2: There's little cost for me to put a Orisards in
Speaker 2: my deck and just do what I do to not
Speaker 2: ruin your game.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, And it's and there's no reason to not
Speaker 1: do it, right, Like, oh well, I'll play my god,
Speaker 1: Oh I won't kill your thing? Why not? Why are
Speaker 1: you playing Richards Oristards for the record as an enchantment
Speaker 1: for White Green one Whenever a creature comes into play,
Speaker 1: you may kill target, artifact or enchatment. It's a may. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amay for the sliver that does the same thing,
Speaker 1: not a may.
Speaker 2: For the record, play this card, yes, or don't. Field
Speaker 2: of the Dead. Oh my god, I'm I'm puzzled.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't.
Speaker 2: Because it's a land. It's a land. If it was
Speaker 2: anything other than a land, the card would be fine.
Speaker 2: But because it's there's no cost to put it in
Speaker 2: your deck. It gives you manna sure, etb's tap, no color, Sure,
Speaker 2: don't care. It's a fucking land. It's a land, that's all.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing we have to say. If you
Speaker 2: don't believe me, and Gavin said the same thing. If
Speaker 2: you don't believe me, play against it or play with
Speaker 2: it and understand in one game how it changes the game.
Speaker 2: It's a land just like orishards, except lower cost because
Speaker 2: that represents a card. This is a land. It's not
Speaker 2: even a card the land.
Speaker 1: You could play this with your orishards, and every time
Speaker 1: you play a land you get it too to and
Speaker 1: kill some of these shit.
Speaker 2: I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what this is.
Speaker 2: I didn't think of that until just now. Thanks thanks
Speaker 2: Game Changers List for making me human scum A how
Speaker 2: else can I be scum? Oh? Spend five thousand dollars?
Speaker 1: Yay? Is you can spend more money than you'll ever
Speaker 1: spend it a magic card in your life. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: talked about this one on the pre show. So if
Speaker 1: you want to hear like a deep talk about this,
Speaker 1: you want.
Speaker 2: To do a deep workshop on something.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to this show, just close your eyes
Speaker 1: unless you're driving, and just think, when was the last
Speaker 1: time you even saw Mesh's workshop in real life?
Speaker 2: Fuck, I'm closing my eyes when I'm driving on the
Speaker 2: way home. Right, Thanks for reminding me.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen one in real life that wasn't at
Speaker 1: a vendor in I'll bet you a decade. Ryan saw
Speaker 1: one at our first Las Vegas trip six years ago.
Speaker 1: I don't know a single human being that owns a
Speaker 1: physical copy of this item.
Speaker 2: My buddy Mitch, who gifted me, does he still have it?
Speaker 2: Probably because we don't know.
Speaker 1: That that guy sells cards all the time. That's why
Speaker 1: I have Foyle City of Brasses. Hey, let's go this
Speaker 1: because a Mitch, So I don't know, I think that
Speaker 1: This is just kind of here because it says tap
Speaker 1: ad three man on it, and it doesn't. It's not
Speaker 1: followed by then sacket or and then it deals ten
Speaker 1: damage to you. That's what I think.
Speaker 2: This is on the game dangerlist for I got. I
Speaker 2: got one last thing. If Mischer's Workshop is not banned
Speaker 2: in Commander Free, Jeweled Lotus, there.
Speaker 1: You go, there, it is there, it is.
Speaker 2: It's my hill and I will die on it, and
Speaker 2: so will you.
Speaker 1: Jewel Lotus and Preducer Gary, sure will. Jewel Lotus has
Speaker 1: a much narrower field of purpose than yeah, workshop do Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the windows that's crazy. I wonder if they can
Speaker 1: hear that.
Speaker 2: On that Yeah, we should go before the building blows.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a card for a car doing
Speaker 1: burnouts on the street. It turns out it's just the
Speaker 1: wind blown past the building.
Speaker 2: We didn't talk about like half of the stuff that
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about with decks that we're going
Speaker 2: to play and changes to the format at large and
Speaker 2: all that stuff. So maybe that's a next week or
Speaker 2: pre show topic.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's so that'll be our next show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, any final words.
Speaker 1: I think we said our final words in the middle.
Speaker 1: I think so far, as far as we've gone on this,
Speaker 1: I think that these are positive changes. I don't think
Speaker 1: that it's gonna surprise anybody or make anybody mad. Nobody's
Speaker 1: gonna quit magic over this one. And I think at
Speaker 1: a top I think it's giving some new tools for
Speaker 1: the CDCH guys to play that aren't just going to
Speaker 1: blow the format up. And I think in a very
Speaker 1: casual sense, we've secured some of the gray area in
Speaker 1: lower casual tiers.
Speaker 2: Oh, I like that.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's some cards that they're going
Speaker 1: to be able to play with now that they maybe
Speaker 1: weren't before because they're sticking very tightly to the bracket
Speaker 1: system and cool. So I think that so far this
Speaker 1: has been pretty good. We'll talk about big changes. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about all those sorts of things next week. Head
Speaker 1: on over to patreon dot com slash CEO Podcast if
Speaker 1: you'd like to support the show. Every little bit helps ed.
Speaker 1: It will get you in to be in the CEO
Speaker 1: experience and the best discord in the history of magic,
Speaker 1: the gathering. I will also die on that ill. Everybody
Speaker 1: in there wants to notus on band, even if they
Speaker 1: say they don't. YEP, it's because it's opposite day all
Speaker 1: the time in the nation. Get finger blasted, have a
Speaker 1: great time there. Thank you very much to Ryan, to
Speaker 1: you for watching, for Gary for listening to us, for
Speaker 1: the people who are waiting outside to come in and
Speaker 1: do the next episode of your show. And we are
Speaker 1: going to be back with the next episode of our show,
Speaker 1: which is Commander cook Out Podcast in our theme.
Speaker 3: So