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<v Speaker 1>Oh, be the.

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<v Speaker 2>Trigger.

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<v Speaker 1>Warn This podcast may include explicit content that will take

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<v Speaker 1>you out of your comfort zone and make you question reality.

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<v Speaker 2>Listeners, discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>Brain and new mini series Blood Ties, And as I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of gave like a hint about in the recap show,

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<v Speaker 1>this series is going to be more about serial killers

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<v Speaker 1>and Charles Manson and some of the bigger serial killers

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<v Speaker 1>that I didn't mention in the previous series, the Ted Bundy,

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Dahmer, Zodiac. We're going to be taking a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit closer look at them. So, as we always do,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna start out with a quote. And before we

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<v Speaker 1>do that, I have a co host on this series.

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<v Speaker 1>It is Colby from Conspiracy Playtime. We're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>working on this together. I'm really excited about it. Kolbe,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you super?

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for asking me?

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<v Speaker 3>Are you?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good and yeah, I'm just really excited to get

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<v Speaker 1>into this one. It's something that Colby and I had

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<v Speaker 1>talked about before. We both read Program to Kill and

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<v Speaker 1>we talk about it all the time, but it's better

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<v Speaker 1>to dig into it a little bit for the series,

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<v Speaker 1>just because I think it's something that is obvious but

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<v Speaker 1>not a lot of people talk about. And there is

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of documentaries and a lot of movies that

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<v Speaker 1>convince people it's one way, but it's actually not that

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<v Speaker 1>way at all. Like the Zodiac movie with Robert Downey,

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<v Speaker 1>which is really good. I like it, Yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>with the supers, But don't you feel like they were

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<v Speaker 1>making it to like it had to be that one

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<v Speaker 1>fat guy?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, right off the bat of forgetting that, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that David Fincher's pretty well known to take movies that

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<v Speaker 2>are semi true and give the mainstream version of them,

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<v Speaker 2>like Social.

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<v Speaker 1>Network, Because in that movie, like I said, I like it,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a good movie. But I think if

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't know anything about Zodiac and then you watched that,

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<v Speaker 1>you would think like, oh, well that's probably Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Zodiac, out of all the ones we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be talking about that you just listed, is the

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<v Speaker 2>one I probably know the least about. But I always

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<v Speaker 2>kind of had my own opinion on what that whole

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<v Speaker 2>thing was. Yeah, I think that movie's definitely trying to

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<v Speaker 2>rap a nice little bow on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, do you think that it was one guy?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, that's good. Then we can at least agree

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<v Speaker 1>on that before we really get into it. But so

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna read us a quote and it's Otis Tool

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<v Speaker 1>and Henry Lee Lucas, and it was a conversation they

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<v Speaker 1>were having. I got this from Henry Lee Lucas's book,

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<v Speaker 1>and right before we started recording, I watched the the

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<v Speaker 1>trailer for The Confession Killer on Netflix, and again I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like they do a great job like not telling

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<v Speaker 1>the truth about shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at Henry.

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<v Speaker 3>He's pleasant, he's non threatening, and actually a killing machine.

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<v Speaker 2>A killing machine. None of the film Serial Murderers approaches

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<v Speaker 2>the record of Henry Lee Lucas.

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<v Speaker 3>Henry Lee Lucas has killed one hundred women at least

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<v Speaker 3>three hundred and sixty people.

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<v Speaker 1>Lucas was a drifter who murdered at random during an

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<v Speaker 1>eight year spree. Either they found the world's worst serial

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<v Speaker 1>killer or that was the biggest hoasts in American criminal

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<v Speaker 1>justice history. I would give him a pencil. He would

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<v Speaker 1>sit there and drop pictures and describe what they were wearing,

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<v Speaker 1>how they were killers, shootings, strangulations, knife ands.

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<v Speaker 2>I've killed them in every way. There is no Lucas

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<v Speaker 2>was confessing to the unsolved murder.

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<v Speaker 1>But before him, I started getting calls from law enforcement

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<v Speaker 1>all over, people say why, why are you doing it?

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<v Speaker 1>It was making him feel as though he was contributing.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't treat him as a killer, but as a friend.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, you got to handcuff. Henry never lived so good.

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<v Speaker 2>Every day, Roddy move, strawberry milkshake. It was like he

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<v Speaker 2>was a movie star.

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<v Speaker 4>From that point, it went to hell in a hand

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<v Speaker 4>basket quick.

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<v Speaker 1>What I'd been believing for all these years was Henry

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<v Speaker 1>did it. There is not one shred of evidence to

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<v Speaker 1>show that Lucas killed my mother.

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<v Speaker 2>The police work was less than competent. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of emotions with that.

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<v Speaker 1>One hundred and ninety seven cases were closed that should

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<v Speaker 1>still be open.

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<v Speaker 2>We were up against very powerful people.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. If someone has something to hip, nobody

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<v Speaker 1>else gonna solve and macept me. He was playing them

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<v Speaker 1>like a Voley and.

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<v Speaker 2>The lied, lied, lied. If Lucas didn't kill all those people.

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<v Speaker 1>Who did, it was a piece of shit documentary that

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<v Speaker 1>was like half accurate, well.

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<v Speaker 2>If I remember correctly, because I watched about half of

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<v Speaker 2>it before I got sick of it. They kind of

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<v Speaker 2>do talk about the fact that Henry Le Lucas took

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<v Speaker 2>credit for.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of shit he didn't do right, But they

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<v Speaker 1>made it to where like he was just a fucking retard, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's why he did it. Like they could just

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<v Speaker 1>be like, oh, we'll get you chicken nugget meal if

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<v Speaker 1>you confess to this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I was kind of surprised that they even went

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<v Speaker 2>that far admitting that he wasn't the prolific serial killer

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<v Speaker 2>that we all thought he was.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I say it all the time. The

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<v Speaker 1>Netflix documentaries are like the worst things to watch if

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<v Speaker 1>you're trying to learn some shit about this stuff. But

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<v Speaker 1>the quote is otis tool. He said, I've been meaning

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you that time when I cooked some of

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<v Speaker 1>these people, why'd I do that? Henry Lee Lucas. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was just the hands doing it. I know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of things we've done in human sight are

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<v Speaker 1>impossible to believe. Otis tool. When we took him out

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<v Speaker 1>and cut him up. Remember one time I said, I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted me some ribs? Does that make me a cannibal? Lucas,

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<v Speaker 1>You wasn't a cannibal. It's the force of the devil.

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<v Speaker 1>Something forced on us that we can't change. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>reason denying what we become. We know what we are.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. You told me this was from his book,

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<v Speaker 2>Henry Lucas's book, which I didn't even know existed. And

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<v Speaker 2>I do think that while there might be some truth

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<v Speaker 2>to this, he also was probably playing into the legend

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<v Speaker 2>built around.

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<v Speaker 1>Him, like he was okay with people thinking he was

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<v Speaker 1>a prolific monster because it made him someone.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he definitely seemed to bask in the limelight.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah for sure, for a milkshake and cigarettes.

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<v Speaker 2>But he wasn't afraid of looking like, yeah, the devil

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<v Speaker 2>to mainstream societies.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think about otis tool? Though he liked

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<v Speaker 1>ribs and he was a cannibal.

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<v Speaker 2>And well, I know the Otis tool. Like if you

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<v Speaker 2>read Program to Kill, he wasn't just a country bump

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<v Speaker 2>fuck kind of guy.

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<v Speaker 1>And his parents and his mom dressed him like a girl.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, the whole nine, the yeah formula.

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<v Speaker 1>So they obviously came up a lot in my Program

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<v Speaker 1>to Kill series. But I'm honestly, I feel like I'm

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<v Speaker 1>beating a dead horse sometimes when I talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>two of them, they're a prime example of what we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. But I do think there is a ritualistic

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<v Speaker 1>component to some of the stuff that they get up to.

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<v Speaker 1>Like they're saying like it's the force of the devil.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think, I mean, what do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I think that there's an element of truth to that.

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<v Speaker 2>If the devil's the CIA.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that they were like programmed and that's it,

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<v Speaker 1>there was no ritualistic aspect to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think there's ritual aspects to the programming.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I mean I guess that opens us up

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<v Speaker 1>to start talking about Charles Manson then, since you brought

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<v Speaker 1>up the CIA, because I have some notes here and

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to just go through them and talk about

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<v Speaker 1>them together. But March twenty first, nineteen sixty seven, the

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<v Speaker 1>Spring Equinox, Charles Manson was released from prison and given

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<v Speaker 1>transport to San Francisco, where, despite having served virtually his

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<v Speaker 1>entire adult life in prison, he immediately started gathering devoted followers,

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<v Speaker 1>many recruited from the various Satanic groups blossoming in that area.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, I feel like there is a ritualistic aspect

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<v Speaker 1>to this as well. As you know, I always say,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't separate government from ritualism because they're synonymous. There's

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<v Speaker 1>usually a little bit of both with this kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, because our government was formed by old school

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<v Speaker 2>secret societies, and if they're you know, carrying into semi

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<v Speaker 2>modern day the sixties, what they were into from the beginning,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, there would be a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the reason that I put this in my notes

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<v Speaker 1>is because despite having served most of his adult life

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<v Speaker 1>in prison.

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<v Speaker 2>And most of his you know, like past the age

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<v Speaker 2>of twelve, this is incarcerated.

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<v Speaker 1>So a lot of these programs they look for people

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<v Speaker 1>where they go to mental institutions and they go to

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<v Speaker 1>fucking prisons or or fucking Manson. Fucking was that Boystown

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<v Speaker 1>at one point.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's obvious that Manson had some hooks

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<v Speaker 2>in him from the beginning, where he got the attention of,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the people that would grab a hold of

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<v Speaker 2>him and turn him into what he was. It's debatable.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's a lot of good stuff and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of research and different books, but if this guy

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<v Speaker 2>from the age of twelve was in and out of

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<v Speaker 2>the system, it could have started.

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<v Speaker 1>As he was primed. Yeah, it was prime They.

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<v Speaker 2>Noticed that this guy was smart and charismatic and had

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<v Speaker 2>a flare.

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<v Speaker 1>For the celebrity, and so spring of the following year,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty eight, Manson loaded his new followers into a

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<v Speaker 1>bus and took them on the road, settling into the

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles area, where Charlie somehow established numerous prominent contacts

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<v Speaker 1>in the entertainment industry, which a lot of people know

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<v Speaker 1>about because we even on the recap show, Dennis Wilson

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<v Speaker 1>was brought up. But he was best siesed with all

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<v Speaker 1>of them. They make it out like he wasn't he

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't like popular, and he was. Actually he was like

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<v Speaker 1>one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there was a lot of people I see reading

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<v Speaker 2>ahead that Neil Young. Neil Young really thought that Charlie

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<v Speaker 2>had something. Yeah, and he admits it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I should. I should probably just read his quote then,

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<v Speaker 1>because he told an interviewer that quote. A lot of

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<v Speaker 1>pretty well known musicians around LA knew him, though they'd

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<v Speaker 1>probably deny it now end quote.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I at some point I was researching Frank Zappa

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<v Speaker 2>and it man, if I remember right, it seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>Frank was one of the ones who got a bad

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<v Speaker 2>vibe from him, didn't want him around. But there was others,

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<v Speaker 2>like you mentioned Dennis Wilson who held parties and also

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<v Speaker 2>let Charlie and some of his girls stay there for

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<v Speaker 2>like weeks weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>Like almost like move in with him.

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<v Speaker 2>Kind of, Yeah, they did take over, but at one

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<v Speaker 2>point Dennis physically removed them from his house. He got

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<v Speaker 2>sick of it. But at what point?

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<v Speaker 1>And like he was like footing the bill for like

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<v Speaker 1>all of their fucking escapades and shit too, because they

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<v Speaker 1>were like just they would just wander around the canyon

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<v Speaker 1>kind of. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Something I wanted to say when you were talking about

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<v Speaker 2>Manson loading up his followers into a bus. This is

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<v Speaker 2>a formula you see again with Ken Kesey and the

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<v Speaker 2>Mary Pranksters, where you have a likely CIA connected guy

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<v Speaker 2>loading up some freaks and then going on whatever mission

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<v Speaker 2>was assigned to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Mm hm. And Neil Young, by the way, knew Charlie

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<v Speaker 1>and his girls really well and actually tried to get

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<v Speaker 1>the head of Warner Brothers to sign the aspiring singer songwriter.

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<v Speaker 1>And it wasn't he. I highlighted his name in my

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<v Speaker 1>notes because you know better than I do. But wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>Neil Young one of the vaccine pusher. Fucking yeah he got.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't do a beef with Spotify over them platforming

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Rogan and then removed like the forty nine percent

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<v Speaker 2>of his catalog that he owns. But he since came

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<v Speaker 2>crawling back. But yeah, he was definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>Because people were just gonna leave Spotify over that. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, because he's just like the end all be all.

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<v Speaker 2>Neil Young has always thought pretty highly of himself, and

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<v Speaker 2>he probably did think he had more sway than he

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<v Speaker 2>actually did, and he found out the hard way.

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<v Speaker 1>But he was one of those vaccine pusher, like you

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<v Speaker 1>get the turn, Yeah, basically so. And he was eating Charlie's.

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<v Speaker 2>Ass apparently probably tasted like chicken.

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<v Speaker 1>Cat chicken, all right, So just so happens this same year,

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<v Speaker 1>on December twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, year the Winter Solstice,

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<v Speaker 1>the first of the Zodiac murders rocked the San Francisco area.

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<v Speaker 1>A man was shot once in the head at point

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<v Speaker 1>blank range with a twenty two and his female companion

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<v Speaker 1>was shot multiple times with the same weapon, and a

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<v Speaker 1>detective working the case noted that the male victim had

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<v Speaker 1>recently learned of a major drug deal that was about

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<v Speaker 1>to go down, and he had been talking openly about

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<v Speaker 1>who was involved in the transaction. So I said in

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<v Speaker 1>the recap episode, because Jonathan actually asked me, why do

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<v Speaker 1>they program serial killers? What do they get from it?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's he said, like it's to sensationalized into like

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<v Speaker 1>terrify people. And I said that maybe a component of it,

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<v Speaker 1>but really what it seems like to me is a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these random killings are mixed in with like

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<v Speaker 1>assassination type killings where they're taking out specific people because

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<v Speaker 1>of something they know or something they're trying to hide

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<v Speaker 1>or and then like nobody ever really knows.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think you're both right, and what better way

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<v Speaker 2>to like utilize somebody to the full capacity, like if

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<v Speaker 2>you can sensationalize violence. And it's been said by many

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<v Speaker 2>of us in the community that the modern day serial

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<v Speaker 2>killer is the school shooter or just a mass shooter

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<v Speaker 2>in general, because you can take these people, have them

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<v Speaker 2>take out specific targets in certain instances, like one of

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<v Speaker 2>the people that got killed in Buffalo, New York, that

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<v Speaker 2>shooting that they tried to make a race thing. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if you remember that. That was like twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two, maybe like the very end of the year

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<v Speaker 2>and one of the serial excuse me, one of the guards,

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<v Speaker 2>the security guards at the store, was the first to

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<v Speaker 2>get taken out, if you belief that thing was even real.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was somebody who had been working on a

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<v Speaker 2>hydrogen powered engine or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Shut up.

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<v Speaker 2>Just so weird that he happened to be a victim

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<v Speaker 2>in this random mass shooting.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, oh my god, serial.

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<v Speaker 2>Killers in the sixties and seventies, definitely, I think Jonathan's

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<v Speaker 2>onto something there with like the sensationalized like mass terror

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<v Speaker 2>and with you know what we think of today with

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<v Speaker 2>mass shootings.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they're also taking out target of course. And

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<v Speaker 1>I so, do you think that there's any correlation between

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<v Speaker 1>all this Manson stuff happening and then December of that

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<v Speaker 1>same year the first Zodiac murder?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you mean by that?

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<v Speaker 1>Leg So, could they be linked in some way because

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<v Speaker 1>it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Like some of Manson's victims were actually.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess it wasn't the same year. Oh no,

300
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<v Speaker 1>it was, because it was spring of nineteen sixty eight.

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<v Speaker 1>Manson loaded his followers into bus and took him on

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<v Speaker 1>the road. And then December of that same year, the

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<v Speaker 1>first Zodiac murder was in the San Francisco area. And

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<v Speaker 1>while this one may be more of like a intentional

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<v Speaker 1>killing because this guy knew something about a drug deal

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that, I think like the Tate murder,

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<v Speaker 1>in the Labyanca murder and the Zodiac murders have a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of similarities in the time and the general vicinity

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<v Speaker 1>of where they took place in California.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, not to mention that Manson frequented the Free Sex

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<v Speaker 2>Clinic in Hayde Ashbury, where he may have very well

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<v Speaker 2>repped shoulders with Jolly West, who's like the forest Gump

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<v Speaker 2>of the CIA.

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<v Speaker 1>Really.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this is if you get into to like

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<v Speaker 2>some of the research that Tom O'Neill did for his

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<v Speaker 2>book Chaos, which say what you want about that book,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people are starting to call it out

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<v Speaker 2>for certain elements of like keeping the lid on certain things.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is news to me, and it kind of

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<v Speaker 2>sucks because I thought that was one of the best

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<v Speaker 2>Manson books ever written. But anyway, he all but links

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<v Speaker 2>Manson and Jolly West with the Free Sex Clinic. So

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<v Speaker 2>Manson was going up and down the entire coast.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I'm saying like la.

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<v Speaker 2>So in that time for him, he definitely would have

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<v Speaker 2>possibly been.

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<v Speaker 1>And we really don't know who the Zodiac is, Like

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's multiple assailants, but who used to say

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<v Speaker 1>he wasn't one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, I don't even know if there

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<v Speaker 2>was a Zodiac. It was just a convenient way to like,

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<v Speaker 2>like what Jonathan was talking about, scare the shit out

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<v Speaker 2>of people. But also, yeah, they were.

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<v Speaker 1>With this guy with like the paper bag over his

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<v Speaker 1>head in the fucking Apron and like, but I will

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<v Speaker 1>actually get into that.

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<v Speaker 2>Like the letters and shit that were sent to the newspapers,

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<v Speaker 2>which is covered extensively in the Fincher movie Zodiac.

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<v Speaker 1>But doesn't that make for a good movie though? The

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<v Speaker 1>way that it went down.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the Yeah, so it was a movie. It

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<v Speaker 2>was people turning into nightly news to see the next

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<v Speaker 2>cipher or to try to figure out the cipher of

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<v Speaker 2>the next or of the most recent letter that the zodiaccent.

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<v Speaker 1>Like people got obsessed with it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like instead of fucking Sunday Morning Cross where

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<v Speaker 2>it puzzles over coffee, it was like, let's see if

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<v Speaker 2>we can I mean, and in the movie, it's like

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<v Speaker 2>a person who is.

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<v Speaker 1>A big fat fot that worked out a fucking mechanic place.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, no, no, I'm saying there was someone who called in

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<v Speaker 2>after watching the news and thought that he had broken

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<v Speaker 2>the code.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, a lot of people thought that they broke the code.

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<v Speaker 1>They were like obsessing over it, actually.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean that could be a whole part of it.

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<v Speaker 2>You get the population the TV watchers fixated on.

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<v Speaker 1>This shit and trying to decipher codes and shit. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm I do have in my notes. It would

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<v Speaker 1>later be speculated that the Zodiac killings actually began in

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<v Speaker 1>the Los Angeles area on the eve of Halloween nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty six, just a few months after the rampages of

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Speck, which I spoke about in the last episode

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<v Speaker 1>of program Ticket No. Part five. That's the one that

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<v Speaker 1>was out of order that people were having a hard

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<v Speaker 1>time finding. I talked about Richard spec and Charles Whitman.

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<v Speaker 1>And so the reason why they speculate that it actually

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<v Speaker 1>started earlier in nineteen sixty six was because of this

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<v Speaker 1>victim named Sherry Joe Bates, and a lot of investigators

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<v Speaker 1>think that she was the first murder victim of the

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<v Speaker 1>Zodiac Killer but they liked to sweep this one under

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<v Speaker 1>the rug for some reason. But she had been stabbed

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<v Speaker 1>in the chest and her throat had been slit so

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<v Speaker 1>deeply that she was nearly decapitated, and a wristwatch of

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<v Speaker 1>military origin had been found at the crime scene, along

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<v Speaker 1>with a military style heel print, and with a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the Zodiac crime scenes, they noticed a military style

379
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<v Speaker 1>bootprint and they described him as being clean cut, with

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<v Speaker 1>like a crew cut. And so this is why they

381
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<v Speaker 1>put put it on one man, and they put it

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<v Speaker 1>on someone that may have been in the military.

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<v Speaker 2>Your thoughts on that, well, if you take a look

384
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<v Speaker 2>at win serial killers started allegedly popping up, it was

385
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<v Speaker 2>after a lot of men had come home from the

386
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<v Speaker 2>Vietnam War had been enlisted in you know, missions such

387
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<v Speaker 2>as the Phoenix program where they would teach these and

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00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that, you know, you could probably put Dahmer

389
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<v Speaker 2>in this in a later era. But when they psychologically

390
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.839
<v Speaker 2>test you to find out where they're going to put

391
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.480
<v Speaker 2>you and whatnot, there's a lot of military programs who

392
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:29.519
<v Speaker 2>want the crazy fox and the Phoenix program would be

393
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.839
<v Speaker 2>a great example of this. And this ties into some

394
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.799
<v Speaker 2>of your earlier work with the Franklin scandal where you

395
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:39.880
<v Speaker 2>had the camp and William Colby of the CIA fucking

396
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:44.480
<v Speaker 2>coming in and giving us the narrative on the Franklin Scandal.

397
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:49.079
<v Speaker 2>These guys were, you know, basically running the Phoenix program.

398
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.319
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not sure so sure about the Camp, but

399
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:53.960
<v Speaker 2>definitely William Colby.

400
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:57.720
<v Speaker 1>But they were besties. Yeah, and he ran the fucking

401
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Franklin fucking cover up exactly.

402
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of people came home from the war

403
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.920
<v Speaker 2>having just been set loose to you know, go savage

404
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.960
<v Speaker 2>on the villages to send a message to the viet Cong,

405
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.279
<v Speaker 2>and they were doing unspeakable acts and they were you know,

406
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.400
<v Speaker 2>put there by the United States military, and so a

407
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of these guys they had the on switch flipped

408
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:24.079
<v Speaker 2>and then they come home and you think they're going

409
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.160
<v Speaker 2>to be able to switch that shit off. Most of

410
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.480
<v Speaker 2>these people just needed a little shove into the right

411
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.240
<v Speaker 2>direction or wrong direction to become just mass killers. And

412
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:37.079
<v Speaker 2>so I think a lot of these serial murders were

413
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<v Speaker 2>just I mean, I don't know it, just.

414
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<v Speaker 1>One of those crazy fucks that came home from the

415
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.119
<v Speaker 1>Phoenix program and they did a little bit extra shit

416
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<v Speaker 1>to them.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if it was like used. I

418
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:49.400
<v Speaker 2>think they were used for the purpose in the war,

419
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<v Speaker 2>but then when they came home, they couldn't stop. And

420
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<v Speaker 2>so I think a lot of these Zodiac killings could

421
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<v Speaker 2>have just been randomlydom people and they're trying to keep

422
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 2>a lid on like what stofoo? That's one I mean,

423
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:03.680
<v Speaker 2>that's one theory.

424
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.279
<v Speaker 1>Sure no. Yeah, So with that first victim, Scherry Joe Bates,

425
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:13.960
<v Speaker 1>the one that was nearly decapitated, the circumstances of her

426
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:17.799
<v Speaker 1>murder suggested that she knew her killer and had spent

427
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.799
<v Speaker 1>a portion of the evening with him before the attack.

428
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:25.799
<v Speaker 1>And just like the Zodiac murders, what was said to

429
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.680
<v Speaker 1>be a confession was received in the mail following her

430
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 1>fucking murder. But no one connects Shrry Joe Bates to

431
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:38.839
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the Zodiac murders. Why not. Do you

432
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 1>remember that one in the movie where he supposedly calls

433
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.799
<v Speaker 1>from a payphone and he says.

434
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 2>He did it.

435
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 1>It was something similar with this one, But they don't

436
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:55.440
<v Speaker 1>link Sharry Joe Bates with the rest of the Zodiac murders.

437
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.960
<v Speaker 1>And they also said they said that Cherry obviously must

438
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:07.279
<v Speaker 1>have known her killer and Darlene the quote unquote first one.

439
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:13.440
<v Speaker 1>First Zodiac murder victim also knew her killer. So it's

440
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.319
<v Speaker 1>like you said, is it people that they know it?

441
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Just like fucking random fucking crazy ass dudes or or chicks,

442
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.599
<v Speaker 1>or is it someone else?

443
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:39.079
<v Speaker 3>Dear editor, this is the murderer of the two teenagers

444
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:41.200
<v Speaker 3>last Christmas at Lake Herman and the girl on the

445
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:41.839
<v Speaker 3>fourth of July.

446
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 2>I want you to print this cipher on the front

447
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:45.240
<v Speaker 2>page of your paper.

448
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>He wants his code in the afternoon edition, May Smith.

449
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:51.519
<v Speaker 3>Does you have like got two to finish?

450
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:55.359
<v Speaker 2>The Zodiac killer has come to San Francisco.

451
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.799
<v Speaker 3>Another letter, school children make nice targets.

452
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:07.039
<v Speaker 2>He gave himself a name, Greek horse code, astrological signs.

453
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:08.119
<v Speaker 2>This guy's used them all.

454
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.759
<v Speaker 1>I like killing people because man is the most dangerous

455
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:12.960
<v Speaker 1>animal of all.

456
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.279
<v Speaker 2>Just one do that.

457
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I like puzzles.

458
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I do them a morning. Got any hard suspects? About

459
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:21.519
<v Speaker 2>ninety and l or come up to around five hundred.

460
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.559
<v Speaker 2>You've got four crime scenes, not a single usable print.

461
00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:26.880
<v Speaker 4>You can't think of this case in normal police terms.

462
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:28.039
<v Speaker 2>He's breaking the pattern.

463
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Then I said you were a cartoonist.

464
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, what are you doing at a gun range.

465
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I just want to help. What are you some kind

466
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.799
<v Speaker 2>of boy scout? Eagle scout, actually first class. I've been thinking.

467
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:41.400
<v Speaker 3>It was her evidence, Robert.

468
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's no evidence. You have him seen with

469
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:46.519
<v Speaker 2>the ciphers, the military boot prints, the bloody not circumstantial.

470
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:48.759
<v Speaker 1>Why do you need to do this because nobody else

471
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>will day you made a mistake.

472
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.279
<v Speaker 3>Get it from the window, Paul, Are you okay?

473
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:54.160
<v Speaker 4>No?

474
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:55.079
<v Speaker 1>What'd you do it?

475
00:28:55.799 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 2>Put your face out there for him to see? Hello?

476
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:03.839
<v Speaker 1>Who is this?

477
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Zodiac? Was my job? It's not yours. He's still out there.

478
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:12.640
<v Speaker 1>Dave.

479
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Killing is his compulsion.

480
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:16.839
<v Speaker 1>It drives him, It's in his blood.

481
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:21.839
<v Speaker 2>She's what squirrels the Zodiac speaking.

482
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:22.640
<v Speaker 1>I've begun.

483
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 2>I can give you a left of the service station

484
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:28.359
<v Speaker 2>tours go around helping people in the night.

485
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm not the Zodiac, and if I was, I certainly

486
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:34.759
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't tell you.

487
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Are you sure there's nobody else in the house.

488
00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:53.039
<v Speaker 1>Everywhere? So the beginning of the Zodiac movie starts with

489
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:59.519
<v Speaker 1>this Darling Farren and Michael Magoo How did I say it?

490
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:05.319
<v Speaker 1>Mijeau and they get in the car. It's an epic

491
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:10.440
<v Speaker 1>scene because she's way older than him. It almost looks

492
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:15.880
<v Speaker 1>like she's like maybe thirty and he's like fifteen, and

493
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.279
<v Speaker 1>she picks him up, and they're supposed to be going

494
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:23.799
<v Speaker 1>to this lover's lane and then the lights they see

495
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.559
<v Speaker 1>lights behind them in the car and the guy gets out.

496
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:33.759
<v Speaker 1>He shoots Mijau like eight times and then shoots Darlene

497
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.400
<v Speaker 1>and stabs her. I think, no, just shoots her, and

498
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 1>fucking you're for sure that both of them are dead

499
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.119
<v Speaker 1>because like he gets back in his car in the movie,

500
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I think this is probably how it happened in real

501
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.279
<v Speaker 1>life too, based on Majoe's testimony. But he got back

502
00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:55.960
<v Speaker 1>in his car, saw Migjeau moving around, came back, shot

503
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.799
<v Speaker 1>him some more, and shot Darlene some more, and he

504
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:05.039
<v Speaker 1>miraculously survived all of that. Darlene's dead as fuck. But

505
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:11.519
<v Speaker 1>where it gets interesting is that Darlene had told her

506
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.640
<v Speaker 1>friends that she had witnessed a murder by a man

507
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:20.839
<v Speaker 1>who had subsequently been following her. She wasn't specific on

508
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:24.799
<v Speaker 1>who the man was, but right before the Zodiac murdership

509
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:29.880
<v Speaker 1>broke a loose, she said she saw a murder, and

510
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.920
<v Speaker 1>in the weeks before her death, Darlene had been receiving

511
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:39.079
<v Speaker 1>mysterious packages from a man living in Mexico who Darlene had,

512
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:43.359
<v Speaker 1>for unexplained reasons married in nineteen sixty six using a

513
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:48.759
<v Speaker 1>fake name and then later divorced, and Michael Mageaux that

514
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.880
<v Speaker 1>night when she came to pick him up, he left

515
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.359
<v Speaker 1>his house in such a hurry that the lights and

516
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.559
<v Speaker 1>the TV were left on and the front door was

517
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:05.599
<v Speaker 1>left on open. So in my mind, again, I think

518
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:10.039
<v Speaker 1>this is unrelated to the Zodiac Killer because this is

519
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.160
<v Speaker 1>oddly specific and it's something that nobody talks about with Darlene.

520
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:16.759
<v Speaker 1>It definitely wasn't in the Finer movie.

521
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.319
<v Speaker 2>No surprise there, So you're saying it was a jolted

522
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:21.960
<v Speaker 2>X lover.

523
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, she said she witnessed a murder by a man,

524
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:27.960
<v Speaker 1>but wouldn't say who the man was, and then she

525
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:33.440
<v Speaker 1>starts receiving packages from her ex husband from Mexico. So

526
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:37.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm starting to think, like, maybe this murder she witnessed,

527
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.920
<v Speaker 1>like her ex husband murdered someone and she.

528
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Told her friend it was someone that had been.

529
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.559
<v Speaker 1>Following her, and then yeah, he had been following her.

530
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.160
<v Speaker 1>And what's also interesting is that they make it like

531
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:53.640
<v Speaker 1>Darlene was romantically interested in Michael Migeaux, but like I

532
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>said he was He was like a teenager and she

533
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 1>was like in her thirties.

534
00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Maybe, but I.

535
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Mean, wouldn't it make more sense though? Maybe she was

536
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:09.039
<v Speaker 1>in like distress or something and like instead of a

537
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:12.799
<v Speaker 1>lover's lane situation, like he left his lights on his

538
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:17.359
<v Speaker 1>TV on his front door wide open. I mean, was

539
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:20.119
<v Speaker 1>that normal in the sixties though, to just leave with

540
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:24.079
<v Speaker 1>all your fucking door open and everything, or like.

541
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, potentially whoever the killer was could have known that

542
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.599
<v Speaker 2>those two were together went to the dude's.

543
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.599
<v Speaker 1>House, Michael Majoe's house.

544
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:42.119
<v Speaker 2>Looking for Michael Magoo and Darlene and then left the

545
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:46.839
<v Speaker 2>door open. I mean, who knows well.

546
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:53.279
<v Speaker 1>Majoe later told investigators that he and Darlene were followed

547
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:58.680
<v Speaker 1>immediately upon leaving Darlene's house, but he changed his story

548
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:04.640
<v Speaker 1>several times. But Joe went into hiding and shortly after

549
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:08.199
<v Speaker 1>the shootings, police received a call from a man claiming

550
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:11.960
<v Speaker 1>credit for Darlene's murder, and the call was placed from

551
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:17.599
<v Speaker 1>a payphone just outside the sheriff's station. That was in

552
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:21.159
<v Speaker 1>the movie where he calls and it's like raining and

553
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:23.280
<v Speaker 1>he gets on the payphone and he's like, it's me.

554
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm the he doesn't say Zodiac. Then he just says

555
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:31.679
<v Speaker 1>I killed two people off of rout nine. Do you

556
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 1>remember that?

557
00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Vaguely? It's been a while since I've seen.

558
00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 1>The movie, but we should watch it tonight.

559
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Is that your pick?

560
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to use my one pick on that though.

561
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.320
<v Speaker 1>That should just be a dual pick that we decide

562
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:46.880
<v Speaker 1>on together.

563
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:51.119
<v Speaker 2>You can't tell me what I pick on our duel pic.

564
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:53.920
<v Speaker 2>How do picks work?

565
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:56.559
<v Speaker 1>How do duel picks work?

566
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.679
<v Speaker 2>Then we had to pick it together. Yeah, and you

567
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:01.639
<v Speaker 2>just volunteered my movie.

568
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:03.360
<v Speaker 1>I volunteered it.

569
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we were. If we were gonna watch it, we

570
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:06.840
<v Speaker 2>should have watched it before recording this.

571
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:09.840
<v Speaker 1>But you remember enough about it though, right? It was

572
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:11.199
<v Speaker 1>a long motherfucker too.

573
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I owned the movie and I love it.

574
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.719
<v Speaker 1>I love it too. I think it's really good. But

575
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:20.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, they they kind of mentioned in the movie

576
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 1>that my Joe kept changing his story. But why would

577
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.079
<v Speaker 1>he have a reason to change his story unless he

578
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:27.719
<v Speaker 1>was hiding something, the truth about something.

579
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, he clearly was in fear for his life, whether.

580
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:36.320
<v Speaker 1>It was Darlene's crazy ex or.

581
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.119
<v Speaker 2>The Zodiac Killer. However you want to look at it,

582
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.000
<v Speaker 2>there would be a lot of reasons to walk back

583
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:44.599
<v Speaker 2>certain things in your testimony.

584
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, if we're going with or you're full of shit,

585
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:54.280
<v Speaker 1>he got shot like twelve times, right, But I'm saying, like,

586
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:57.760
<v Speaker 1>if we're going with multiple assailants for the Zodiac and

587
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.320
<v Speaker 1>not just one guy, I think this was an another

588
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.760
<v Speaker 1>one that just got grouped in there, like Sherry Joe,

589
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Like they don't say the Zodiac killed her, but like

590
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.679
<v Speaker 1>that was just a random one that they let slide.

591
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.599
<v Speaker 1>So I think this Darlene fair and One could just

592
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:18.320
<v Speaker 1>be a random shooting because he kept changing his moo.

593
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.679
<v Speaker 1>But we'll get into that too. At the end of July,

594
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the first of what proved to be a long series

595
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.239
<v Speaker 1>of letters arrived at area newspaper offices, with a request

596
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that the letter be published on August first, the occult

597
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:40.639
<v Speaker 1>holiday known as Lamas your thoughts, because like I said,

598
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:43.559
<v Speaker 1>there's always a little bit of ritualism when they try

599
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:47.559
<v Speaker 1>to pull off these huge fucking psyops.

600
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, who's sending the letter? If we don't know, then

601
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:56.639
<v Speaker 2>that's the main thing. Like if there if some of

602
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.119
<v Speaker 2>our speculation is accurate and there isn't just one one

603
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.360
<v Speaker 2>killer known as the Zodiac, then yeah, this could have

604
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:09.880
<v Speaker 2>been a syop. And like we said previously, the people

605
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:14.960
<v Speaker 2>that do the syops definitely have occult rituals guiding them.

606
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm, so they love to put that shit in there.

607
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Or if it was just one guy doing all this, yeah,

608
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:28.440
<v Speaker 2>he could have been a cult ritualist as well.

609
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.519
<v Speaker 1>The series of letters were laced with codes that suggested

610
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:35.639
<v Speaker 1>that the writer had a background in naval intelligence, bringing

611
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:41.760
<v Speaker 1>the Office of Naval Intelligence onto the case. Other agencies

612
00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:46.119
<v Speaker 1>that investigated the Zodiac killings included the FBI, the US

613
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Postal Service, the California Department of Justice, and four local

614
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:53.400
<v Speaker 1>police agencies.

615
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 2>You know you've done fucked up when you get investigated

616
00:37:56.079 --> 00:38:00.719
<v Speaker 2>by the US Postals. Don't fire around.

617
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:02.880
<v Speaker 1>They carry guns, you know.

618
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, they'll shoot your The co host on my show, Jeremiah,

619
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:10.480
<v Speaker 2>he's talked extensively about.

620
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:15.480
<v Speaker 1>The Postal Service. They'll shoot, they will decapitate.

621
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:20.440
<v Speaker 2>There was one That's why they call it going postal?

622
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Was it that like a post office person that like, wait,

623
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:26.880
<v Speaker 1>crazy just shot a bunch of people though, Yeah.

624
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:30.119
<v Speaker 2>And one bad apple made a whole fucking h what

625
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:30.840
<v Speaker 2>do you call it?

626
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:40.039
<v Speaker 1>Hmm? Cliche or yeah, catchphrase? But so on August fourth,

627
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.400
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty nine, The killer supplied his moniker in a

628
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:49.440
<v Speaker 1>letter that began this is the Zodiac speaking. Just days later,

629
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:53.280
<v Speaker 1>on the nights of August eighth and ninth, the Manson

630
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:58.280
<v Speaker 1>family committed two of the most notorious multiple murders in

631
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:03.960
<v Speaker 1>the nation's history, the Tate Lobyanca slings. The Manson killings

632
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:08.000
<v Speaker 1>were part of a weekend orgy of violence in Los

633
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:13.519
<v Speaker 1>Angeles that saw the city record twenty nine known homicides

634
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.440
<v Speaker 1>in just four days.

635
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 2>That's like a normal weekend in fucking Chicago.

636
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:25.079
<v Speaker 1>Spin serious, But you see, like it's odd that they're

637
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:31.079
<v Speaker 1>running kind of parallel, the Zodiac killings and the Manson killings,

638
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:35.840
<v Speaker 1>and they started in the same year, they're around the

639
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.840
<v Speaker 1>same area. They all could be random, as I was

640
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:41.880
<v Speaker 1>saying before, like the one chicks X and the other

641
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:48.360
<v Speaker 1>chick whatever, But it just seems in August eighth and

642
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:52.159
<v Speaker 1>August ninth, and Zodiac wants his letter out August first,

643
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:57.519
<v Speaker 1>so concerning the Tate Labyanka slings. The search for the

644
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:04.239
<v Speaker 1>perpetrators of the h Profile murders involved the FBI, the Massade,

645
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 1>the California Beverage Control Board, the US Treasury Department, the

646
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:16.039
<v Speaker 1>La County District Attorney's Office, the lap D, the LA

647
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:24.119
<v Speaker 1>Sheriff's Office, and Colonel Paul Tait, a US Army Intelligence asset,

648
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:32.039
<v Speaker 1>Vietnam veteran and the father of victim Sharon Tate. And

649
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:37.079
<v Speaker 1>I know Colby that you have a lot to say

650
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.480
<v Speaker 1>on this, so I'm just gonna let you go.

651
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I've obsessed over the Charles Manson killings for years,

652
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.679
<v Speaker 2>and just my overall scoping opinion on a lot of

653
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.760
<v Speaker 2>this stuff is pretty recent. And I will preface this

654
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:03.480
<v Speaker 2>by saying that I'm not human vibrations where I think

655
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:06.039
<v Speaker 2>every single thing that you ever hear about on the

656
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 2>news is fake and staged. But I do think there's

657
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:13.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot to that when it comes to certain things.

658
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:19.199
<v Speaker 2>Within the last couple of years, I've been convinced that

659
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:23.840
<v Speaker 2>the West Memphis three killings were entirely staged. And when

660
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:26.599
<v Speaker 2>I first heard it, it kind of, you know, you

661
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:28.519
<v Speaker 2>have a visceral reaction to.

662
00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:31.920
<v Speaker 1>That, and I thought about it.

663
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.719
<v Speaker 2>After about two minutes of talking to the guy that

664
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:38.639
<v Speaker 2>I was interviewing who laid that theory out for me,

665
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:40.920
<v Speaker 2>it all just kind of made a lot of sense,

666
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:43.679
<v Speaker 2>especially with some of the stuff he said and then

667
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.559
<v Speaker 2>I kind of took that line of thought as well

668
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:57.559
<v Speaker 2>as the Laurel Canyon formula, where you have an intelligence

669
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:02.920
<v Speaker 2>assets from the United States military involved and it's a parent.

670
00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:06.159
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot like I'm not saying, a parent, like

671
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.440
<v Speaker 2>apparently like a parent like her father. Sharon Tate's father

672
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.280
<v Speaker 2>was a current Well he's a USA.

673
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh he's a Vietnam vet.

674
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.320
<v Speaker 2>And an intelligence asset. So a lot of the stuff

675
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:27.239
<v Speaker 2>that happened that night, it just seems like a spectacle

676
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.400
<v Speaker 2>like thrown out there for us.

677
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.159
<v Speaker 1>Do you think Sharon Tate is dead?

678
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't think either way. Of course she existed, but

679
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:41.239
<v Speaker 2>either way, she was either set up to be murdered

680
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:45.559
<v Speaker 2>in that ritualistic fashion. I mean, anybody who's looked into

681
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.559
<v Speaker 2>the Manson killings at all knows that that house in

682
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:53.920
<v Speaker 2>particular was targeted. But Manson himself knew that Terry Melcher

683
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.679
<v Speaker 2>didn't live there anymore, but he still said to do it.

684
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:01.280
<v Speaker 2>And whether Manson gave order or not, if they even

685
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.559
<v Speaker 2>really happened, I think it could be a thing that

686
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:08.800
<v Speaker 2>was faked. And you know, you look at like stuff

687
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like the Challenger.

688
00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Exploding, oh right, all.

689
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Sorts of stuff where you see a lot of these

690
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:18.239
<v Speaker 2>people are still alive and so.

691
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:20.239
<v Speaker 1>But do you think Sharantate is still alive?

692
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:22.639
<v Speaker 2>If I had to guess, I would say I wouldn't

693
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.840
<v Speaker 2>be surprised either way. It to me does look like

694
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:26.719
<v Speaker 2>a staged event.

695
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:29.320
<v Speaker 1>What was my argument when you told me that the

696
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 1>first time and I freaked out.

697
00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I think you were a little too married to your

698
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.159
<v Speaker 2>research to look at it from a new angle. I

699
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:38.199
<v Speaker 2>don't know exactly what your argument was, but it was.

700
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:40.679
<v Speaker 1>Really it was lame.

701
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:43.079
<v Speaker 2>It was weird. No, it wasn't lame. I mean, this

702
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:45.360
<v Speaker 2>is a lot for anybody to hear.

703
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:48.519
<v Speaker 1>Who because I think, like the West Memphis three, I

704
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:51.280
<v Speaker 1>fought you harder on than the Sharantate. I think I

705
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:53.960
<v Speaker 1>gave in on the Sharon Tate before the West Memphis

706
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:57.639
<v Speaker 1>three because I do think that those little boys are dead.

707
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you watch the Paradise Lost trilogy on HBO,

708
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.159
<v Speaker 2>that to me is a blueprint of a staged event.

709
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:11.239
<v Speaker 2>Come to fruition to like, jam it down our throats.

710
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Here's what happened. The Satanic Panic was a thing that

711
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:18.480
<v Speaker 2>was sensationalized, and then the reaction to the Satanic Panic,

712
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.480
<v Speaker 2>and then you have all these celebrities cozying up with

713
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.280
<v Speaker 2>fucking god, what's his name, Damien.

714
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:28.039
<v Speaker 1>Eccles, and he they are close with him.

715
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:32.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean there was like Eddie Vedder doing songs with

716
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:35.239
<v Speaker 2>him while he was still in prison, and Johnny Depp

717
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:39.360
<v Speaker 2>getting matching tattoos. Yeah, and I've heard him go on

718
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Duncan Trussel's podcast and all these guys want to suck

719
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:44.519
<v Speaker 2>his dick now, regardless of whether you think he was

720
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.679
<v Speaker 2>innocent or not, he take it a step further. It's like,

721
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:51.800
<v Speaker 2>did this shit even happen? Because if you watched the

722
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:56.280
<v Speaker 2>first movie in that trilogy, Damian Eccles looks guilty as fuck,

723
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 2>and the HBO producers are trying to show you that

724
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:02.320
<v Speaker 2>they didn't do it, and then they have like the

725
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:07.119
<v Speaker 2>retarded one who ended up spilling the beans, and then

726
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.679
<v Speaker 2>they eventually took the Alfred plea where they said, yeah,

727
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:13.639
<v Speaker 2>we're pleading guilty even though tongue in cheek, we didn't

728
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:18.159
<v Speaker 2>do it. Yeah, And I mean it's just one big spectacle,

729
00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:21.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of like the Sharon Tate murders, where you had

730
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:25.119
<v Speaker 2>this rising starlet married to one of the most occultic

731
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:31.320
<v Speaker 2>fucking filmmakers aside from Kenneth Anger, and it's so weird

732
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:37.079
<v Speaker 2>when you look at Rosemary's Baby and the parallels with

733
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:39.519
<v Speaker 2>I know, and I mean and if you want to

734
00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:42.599
<v Speaker 2>go even further into what was going on at that

735
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:46.800
<v Speaker 2>house with a lot of fucking people who are practicing

736
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:50.920
<v Speaker 2>witchcraft and what I mean, this was not random, whether

737
00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:54.599
<v Speaker 2>it was planned, whether it was staged. It was definitely

738
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:55.800
<v Speaker 2>set out by something.

739
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:59.079
<v Speaker 1>So but you do think it's theatrical though, Like what.

740
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.639
<v Speaker 2>About whether it's they're dead or not, and whether the

741
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:05.400
<v Speaker 2>murders really happened. Yeah, you could take an event and

742
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.000
<v Speaker 2>then sensationalize it to get the most out of it

743
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.880
<v Speaker 2>that you can, or you could have just planned the

744
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:11.039
<v Speaker 2>motherfucker from the beginning.

745
00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:13.880
<v Speaker 1>So but what about the Lobbyanka murders?

746
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.119
<v Speaker 2>See that one. I don't think that would have been

747
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:18.519
<v Speaker 2>famous at all if Sharon Tate and the and the

748
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:19.760
<v Speaker 2>crew there with like.

749
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:26.280
<v Speaker 1>So, if you do think the Lobyanka's happened and it

750
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:29.360
<v Speaker 1>was part of this, well.

751
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, the only reason we even know about

752
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the Labyanca slains is because the murders that happened.

753
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:41.239
<v Speaker 1>So the Tates was to like usher in the terror

754
00:46:41.559 --> 00:46:43.280
<v Speaker 1>of the Lobyankas.

755
00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 2>No I just think that whether the Labyanka Slains were

756
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Mansoner or not, that Yeah, it's just like a footnote.

757
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.400
<v Speaker 2>It's like an asterisk on the on the Tate killings, because,

758
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:59.239
<v Speaker 2>like I said, if the Tate killing hadn't happened, we

759
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:00.039
<v Speaker 2>would never hear.

760
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, if you look at it for like

761
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:03.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people want to put this on Manson

762
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:06.719
<v Speaker 1>so bad because it like it's like once upon a

763
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:10.280
<v Speaker 1>time in Hollywood, Like it makes a great story and

764
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:16.280
<v Speaker 1>it's very it's like a very well written screenplay.

765
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:21.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, and if you just take Charles Manson himself, you

766
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.920
<v Speaker 2>have a guy who's been in and out of the system.

767
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:30.519
<v Speaker 2>He's associated with multiple gangs. Yeah, he's he's constantly being

768
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.960
<v Speaker 2>released after being pulled over for and like with underage

769
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:37.960
<v Speaker 2>girls and fucking bust full of drugs. This guy could

770
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:41.400
<v Speaker 2>not stay out of the fucking like shit that was

771
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 2>going on, even though there's no way he should have

772
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.440
<v Speaker 2>been where he was unless he was put there. And

773
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:50.119
<v Speaker 2>so then you take it a step further and yeah,

774
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.480
<v Speaker 2>like did any of the shit that they tied to

775
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Manson have anything to do with Manson? Did it?

776
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:58.039
<v Speaker 1>Though? Because if you were to tell me that a

777
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:04.599
<v Speaker 1>someone like Sharon Tate was married to an occultist filmmaker

778
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:08.079
<v Speaker 1>like Roman Polanski and then you watch Rosemary's Baby and

779
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:10.679
<v Speaker 1>then you see what happens to her. I'd be more

780
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:12.800
<v Speaker 1>likely to think he had fucking something to do with

781
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:13.639
<v Speaker 1>it than Manson.

782
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you've ever read Chaos, it talks about a

783
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:25.559
<v Speaker 2>fuck I think it was like a film reel that

784
00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:29.199
<v Speaker 2>Roman Polansky had in his possession, and it was like

785
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:33.519
<v Speaker 2>his fucking occultist buddies running a train on Sharon Tates.

786
00:48:33.639 --> 00:48:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. The best thing about Chaos is he

787
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.320
<v Speaker 2>discredits Bugliosi and all his bullshit that he put into

788
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.960
<v Speaker 2>his book Helter Skelter. This is this guy that prosecuted

789
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Manson and he wanted like rock star fame, and this

790
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:53.480
<v Speaker 2>guy was a fucking hack. So the whole race war

791
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:56.639
<v Speaker 2>theory and all of that stuff was bullshit from the

792
00:48:56.679 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 2>get go. So to me, Manson probably had blood on

793
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:05.039
<v Speaker 2>his hands in one way or another, But he also

794
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:09.800
<v Speaker 2>was a trained asset who was running mk ultra programming

795
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:16.599
<v Speaker 2>on the family. He was using methmphetamine LSD sleep deprivation

796
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 2>to brainwash these fuckers. Did they even know if they

797
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:23.280
<v Speaker 2>were there that night? Were they themselves assets. I mean

798
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:25.599
<v Speaker 2>a lot of this stuff. If you look into Tex Watson,

799
00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:28.239
<v Speaker 2>like his whole fucking story is just.

800
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:30.039
<v Speaker 1>All over the place. It's all over there.

801
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:33.679
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I just say, like, you can't throw the

802
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.079
<v Speaker 2>baby out with the bathwater when it comes to these

803
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:39.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of things, because the spider web can go in

804
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:43.280
<v Speaker 2>so many directions on this. And so after all the

805
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.039
<v Speaker 2>research I've done into the Manson killings, it's like to

806
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:50.079
<v Speaker 2>even have like a concrete theory, it's just.

807
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Kind of, you know, like you almost can't have one.

808
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:56.119
<v Speaker 2>You can if you want to, and there are people

809
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:59.639
<v Speaker 2>that do, but man, the more I've read into it,

810
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:01.719
<v Speaker 2>the more or it just seems to me like there

811
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:03.559
<v Speaker 2>is a lot to this that we'll never know.

812
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I'm pretty sure like that was one of

813
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.599
<v Speaker 1>our first arguments.

814
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:13.559
<v Speaker 4>It was our first fighting except cure. We're fighting about

815
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:18.559
<v Speaker 4>serial killers, Charles Manson, satanic slayings of kids in the woods,

816
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:21.559
<v Speaker 4>when most people are fighting about who's going to take

817
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:24.000
<v Speaker 4>out the trash.

818
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:30.559
<v Speaker 1>I was actually I was compelled by your argument, which

819
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:34.039
<v Speaker 1>is why I know, like when you hear something and

820
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.639
<v Speaker 1>you're like, oh damn, that makes a lot of sense.

821
00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:40.840
<v Speaker 2>It just and it's just it's just one theory, Like

822
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:41.960
<v Speaker 2>I said, I know.

823
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:43.719
<v Speaker 1>But it makes a lot of sense.

824
00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:45.880
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, a lot of theories do make

825
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:47.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of sense. Some of them don't make any sense,

826
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and they could be the real ones. You don't fucking know.

827
00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:53.199
<v Speaker 2>Like you can't be married to any of this shit.

828
00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:56.599
<v Speaker 2>You can do your best to stream together extensive research

829
00:50:56.679 --> 00:51:00.800
<v Speaker 2>and look into everything. Anybody prominent who's like lived like

830
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:06.519
<v Speaker 2>Tom O'Neill twenty years writing one fucking book, or just

831
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:08.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of podcasters.

832
00:51:09.079 --> 00:51:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, podcasters always have like we always have something

833
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.480
<v Speaker 1>to say, whether or not people. I think people should

834
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:17.400
<v Speaker 1>really do their own research into a lot of this

835
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:22.760
<v Speaker 1>stuff before they just like, especially if they're Netflix documentary

836
00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:24.960
<v Speaker 1>HBO documentary watchers.

837
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think a lot of your listeners and

838
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:30.840
<v Speaker 2>especially listeners to these series that you're doing for the

839
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:35.360
<v Speaker 2>boys at the Coult, then you will inevitably be compelled

840
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:40.199
<v Speaker 2>to do your own research. If you've set through pediphocracy,

841
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Uncle Sam wants your kids programmed to kill And if

842
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:46.159
<v Speaker 2>you made it this far, I'm assuming you've also looked

843
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:48.480
<v Speaker 2>into it on your own. And if you haven't, we

844
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:49.599
<v Speaker 2>probably you probably should.

845
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you probably should if they've made it this far.

846
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:57.559
<v Speaker 1>Their troopers though we let you, yes, But actually I

847
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:05.400
<v Speaker 1>have a fun fact for you. Roman Polanski actually brought

848
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.440
<v Speaker 1>in to assist in his own investigation of the killings

849
00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:14.719
<v Speaker 1>this fucking famous psychic, fucking guy named Peter Herkos. And

850
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Peter Herkos had earlier made a high profile appearance alongside

851
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 1>of f Lee Bailey in the Boston strangler case.

852
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:30.440
<v Speaker 2>So I actually, is that how Polanski knew who he

853
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:32.079
<v Speaker 2>was or really like Buds?

854
00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's what I'm why I think it's interesting is

855
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:42.639
<v Speaker 1>is this more theater shit? Because I think the Boston

856
00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:50.000
<v Speaker 1>stranglers are also fucking Cia, right, So if this Herkos

857
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:54.480
<v Speaker 1>guy was involved in the Boston strangler case, and then

858
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Roman Polansky somehow knows him and gets him involved in

859
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:01.719
<v Speaker 1>the Tait case, then I feel, like I said earlier,

860
00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:04.119
<v Speaker 1>and like what you were alluding to, that this is

861
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:06.199
<v Speaker 1>a great piece of fiction.

862
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:11.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, and not to mention that even in the instance

863
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:15.159
<v Speaker 2>that Polanski wasn't involved in the theater behind it, he

864
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:18.159
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of fucking reason to make people think

865
00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:21.639
<v Speaker 2>that he was very you know, just grief stricken and

866
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:25.639
<v Speaker 2>trying to solve this on his own. When in fact,

867
00:53:26.320 --> 00:53:28.280
<v Speaker 2>he just lucked out that he wasn't there if this

868
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:29.679
<v Speaker 2>shit really happened.

869
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Or did he have something to do with it, because

870
00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:34.559
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people think he did well, his friends well.

871
00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:36.639
<v Speaker 2>And also you brought up like a lot of these

872
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:43.599
<v Speaker 2>are like set up hits with drug shit, and there

873
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.039
<v Speaker 2>is a lot of evidence that there was stuff going

874
00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:50.480
<v Speaker 2>on at these parties that Tate's crew with like j. C.

875
00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Bring and a couple other people that were there, Mama

876
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Cass and oh yeah, and the Folgers Heiress. Like a

877
00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:00.559
<v Speaker 2>lot of these people were notorious junkies who were hanging

878
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:04.760
<v Speaker 2>out with devil worshipers and they like had this weird crossing.

879
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:06.039
<v Speaker 1>And making movies and shit.

880
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:11.039
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and there was like drug debts, they were unpaid

881
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:14.960
<v Speaker 2>and you know, then you have the FBI probably sitting

882
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.239
<v Speaker 2>right outside this if it really did happen, I mean,

883
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:18.840
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of people who have talked about that.

884
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:22.239
<v Speaker 2>I think Sam's brought them up on his show. But so.

885
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:26.760
<v Speaker 1>This circle of people that he was hanging out with

886
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:31.800
<v Speaker 1>also is just really it says a lot because at

887
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.440
<v Speaker 1>the time of the Manson murders, this Peter her Coast

888
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:40.159
<v Speaker 1>guy was involved in organizing a black Arts festival scheduled

889
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:45.199
<v Speaker 1>for Halloween Day nineteen sixty nine, and the events other

890
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:50.880
<v Speaker 1>organizers were Timothy Leary and Anton Levy, who were scheduled

891
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:53.679
<v Speaker 1>to host the festival before it was canceled.

892
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:57.159
<v Speaker 2>So two other assets, that's what.

893
00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:02.239
<v Speaker 1>But they're they're all so and Polanski somehow knows this

894
00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Peter Herkos guy who's a psychic medium who hosts black

895
00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:12.159
<v Speaker 1>arts festivals with Antson Levey and fucking he gets called

896
00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:14.679
<v Speaker 1>in to the Tate fucking like. This is why I

897
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:18.920
<v Speaker 1>think it's such a theatrical like fucking like, but it's

898
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:23.079
<v Speaker 1>all Manson, Like you know what I mean, It can't

899
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:24.679
<v Speaker 1>just be Manson.

900
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Or was it at all?

901
00:55:26.719 --> 00:55:27.599
<v Speaker 1>Or was it at all?

902
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:34.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean to me, Manson was used up and whether

903
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.440
<v Speaker 2>he had anything to do with what happened that night,

904
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:40.559
<v Speaker 2>It's like, we can throw this guy under the bus now.

905
00:55:41.199 --> 00:55:45.039
<v Speaker 2>And he also during many prison interviews and letters with

906
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:49.039
<v Speaker 2>people and he was incarcerated the final time, he mentioned

907
00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:51.920
<v Speaker 2>that like if you even knew as deep as this

908
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.000
<v Speaker 2>goes and I and he would always allude to it,

909
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:57.519
<v Speaker 2>but at the end he'd say he would never rat

910
00:55:57.599 --> 00:55:59.360
<v Speaker 2>anybody out, but he.

911
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Would say like like if you knew like I'm not

912
00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:06.239
<v Speaker 1>the monster, like he would say stuff like that.

913
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean he said a lot of stuff.

914
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:11.000
<v Speaker 1>He said a lot of cracked out shit, Like.

915
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of his stuff was probably part

916
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:17.960
<v Speaker 2>of the show. But after you're fucking rotten in a

917
00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:20.760
<v Speaker 2>cage for decades on end, you might start spitting a

918
00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:23.719
<v Speaker 2>little truth and trying to like give a little bit

919
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:25.559
<v Speaker 2>of breadcrumbs to the people who really.

920
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Want to look into it, Like weave in truths with

921
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:28.800
<v Speaker 1>lies and shit.

922
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that in the beginning the whole trial spectacle,

923
00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:35.760
<v Speaker 2>it was like a script.

924
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Manson family with their frick their fucking their

925
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:41.199
<v Speaker 1>swastikas and ship.

926
00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, did he even know where he was

927
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:46.039
<v Speaker 2>going at that point? Like he could have thought like, hey,

928
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:50.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe I play along with this play this staged performance,

929
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:53.239
<v Speaker 2>and then I get extracted at the end, and maybe

930
00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:55.320
<v Speaker 2>he did, and they put in a fucking body double

931
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:58.719
<v Speaker 2>or some fucking like if you want to start getting

932
00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:00.800
<v Speaker 2>into like that, there's a lot lot of these people

933
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:06.440
<v Speaker 2>like Diddy right now, his fucking mugshot is a different

934
00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:11.079
<v Speaker 2>guy one gne Maxwell. All we saw of her in

935
00:57:11.119 --> 00:57:15.000
<v Speaker 2>the courtroom was a fucking sketch, a sketch so they

936
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:17.760
<v Speaker 2>could just like have let the real Charles go.

937
00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:23.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Well, they found a pretty decent lookalike

938
00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:27.079
<v Speaker 1>for once upon a time in Hollywood. It's not like

939
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:29.639
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to fucking find a fucking white guy with

940
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:31.440
<v Speaker 1>crazy face.

941
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.920
<v Speaker 2>And you could get anybody like short and easily to

942
00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:37.440
<v Speaker 2>look like Charles.

943
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.719
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm saying. It's not like he's very distinguishable

944
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:46.519
<v Speaker 1>in any way. But so the month after the Tatelabyanca

945
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:53.199
<v Speaker 1>killings and just after the autumnal equinox, the Zodiac was

946
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:56.960
<v Speaker 1>apparently back to work as a man and woman were

947
00:57:56.960 --> 00:58:02.079
<v Speaker 1>stabbed multiple times in a San Francisco area park. Is

948
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:05.079
<v Speaker 1>this curious timing? And again I put that in my

949
00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:09.400
<v Speaker 1>notes because I feel like a lot of these murders

950
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:14.239
<v Speaker 1>are running parallel in and around the same area. And

951
00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:24.000
<v Speaker 1>what's interesting is that there's usually a survivor with the

952
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:28.199
<v Speaker 1>Zodiac murders, which is interesting to me because in the

953
00:58:28.519 --> 00:58:33.119
<v Speaker 1>UH first one that they pin on him with Michael Majo,

954
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.960
<v Speaker 1>he survived. And in this one with the UH San

955
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Francisco area park, he stabbed a man and a woman

956
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:41.480
<v Speaker 1>and the man survived.

957
00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for such a fucking badass killer, he kind of

958
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:45.840
<v Speaker 2>sucks at finishing the job.

959
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:49.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like you would. He's like the least badass of

960
00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:51.920
<v Speaker 1>all serial killers. Like he's leaving fucking people alive.

961
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:57.119
<v Speaker 2>Remember in Mickey and Mallory knock saga from Nashalbaring Killers,

962
00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:59.079
<v Speaker 2>they always leave one person in line to tell the

963
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:00.199
<v Speaker 2>tell you.

964
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:02.159
<v Speaker 1>Think that's what it is, though, I mean.

965
00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Because part of the mythology of it. At least you know.

966
00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:08.119
<v Speaker 1>What's crazy that you just said that, because I put

967
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.039
<v Speaker 1>it in my notes that despite the fact that it

968
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:15.719
<v Speaker 1>took nearly an hour for the ambulance to respond to

969
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.719
<v Speaker 1>a call, as this dude in this chick, we're fucking

970
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:23.920
<v Speaker 1>bleeding to death, and the man fucking survives in what

971
00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:27.960
<v Speaker 1>has to be the only known case of a serial

972
00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:32.400
<v Speaker 1>killer showing up for work dressed in a logo bearing costume.

973
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:37.280
<v Speaker 1>This motherfucker with eighteen stab wounds somehow survives to tell

974
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the tale, and he gives the only description that we

975
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:43.039
<v Speaker 1>have of the Zodiac in his costume.

976
00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:45.880
<v Speaker 2>It was a fat, tall white guy.

977
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, he was wearing a fucking hood and a fucking

978
00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:54.880
<v Speaker 1>apron with the zodiac symbol on it.

979
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:55.679
<v Speaker 2>My ass.

980
00:59:56.320 --> 01:00:00.639
<v Speaker 1>And and so if this is the same person why

981
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.440
<v Speaker 1>did he shoot the first couple and then stabbed to

982
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:10.119
<v Speaker 1>death the second couple? He changes his mo and now

983
01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:16.760
<v Speaker 1>he's acquired a costume, and they did find a military

984
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:23.199
<v Speaker 1>issue boot print that was connected to like the US

985
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:29.840
<v Speaker 1>naval bases on the West coast, and he made another

986
01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:33.079
<v Speaker 1>call that was out, this was me. I did it

987
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:34.360
<v Speaker 1>after that one.

988
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, if you want to go out on

989
01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:39.559
<v Speaker 2>a limb here with some of this psychology stuff that

990
01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:44.000
<v Speaker 2>whether the intelligence agencies or whoever the fuck is putting

991
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:47.519
<v Speaker 2>this shit all together, if they know that there's a

992
01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:53.119
<v Speaker 2>bunch of fucked up people in California, you start one

993
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.199
<v Speaker 2>killing and you're going to get a bunch of fucked

994
01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:01.599
<v Speaker 2>up people from the Vietnam War. Maybe start doing copycat killings.

995
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:04.519
<v Speaker 2>And I've always wondered about with the Zodiac, I think

996
01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:07.000
<v Speaker 2>that was even a theory that one of the cops

997
01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:09.199
<v Speaker 2>in the movie floated out, was like, this isn't the

998
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:10.920
<v Speaker 2>same guy. There's a lot of copycats. I don't know

999
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:12.880
<v Speaker 2>if it's that movie, but I have seen a show

1000
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:16.079
<v Speaker 2>where that was theorized, and I think there could be

1001
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:18.679
<v Speaker 2>something to that, where you have a bunch of unhinged

1002
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:21.519
<v Speaker 2>maniacs who just have fucking lust for blood. And then

1003
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:24.599
<v Speaker 2>they see this is like a fucking role playing game.

1004
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:27.559
<v Speaker 2>I can get on. I can even wear a costume.

1005
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, But don't you think it's odd though that the

1006
01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:34.480
<v Speaker 1>first couple was shot and then the second couple was

1007
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:37.599
<v Speaker 1>knifed and the dude always survives, and like, you've showed

1008
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:39.360
<v Speaker 1>up in a costume, I mean second time.

1009
01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:43.840
<v Speaker 2>It's a formula for sure, any but he changed up. No,

1010
01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:48.599
<v Speaker 2>but I'm saying, like just the whole thing with leaving

1011
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:53.360
<v Speaker 2>a survivor. Oh yeah, and like it's a couple.

1012
01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's part was the same. But then they threw

1013
01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:00.400
<v Speaker 1>all those random like the one guy was a taxi

1014
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:04.719
<v Speaker 1>driver that got shot and then at some point he

1015
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:06.480
<v Speaker 1>said he was going to blow up a bus.

1016
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that one was always.

1017
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Weird, you know. It's like so it was actually on

1018
01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:19.360
<v Speaker 1>October eleventh, nineteen sixty nine, one day shy of the

1019
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:23.599
<v Speaker 1>birthday of Alistair Crowley. The taxi driver was shot once

1020
01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:30.599
<v Speaker 1>in the head, but he apparently changed the kind of

1021
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:38.159
<v Speaker 1>gun he used and at for San Francisco area crime scenes.

1022
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:42.239
<v Speaker 1>The Zodiac quote unquote had used a different weapon at

1023
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:45.559
<v Speaker 1>each crime scene, which is something that they do in

1024
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:50.760
<v Speaker 1>the Uh, the training programs is they tell you to

1025
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:53.000
<v Speaker 1>do a clean shot to the head. I wish you

1026
01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:56.000
<v Speaker 1>would have listened to Program to Kill Part five. Well,

1027
01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:58.400
<v Speaker 1>I know it's too bad it was released out of order, but.

1028
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:04.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you look at the the manuals for hits

1029
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.599
<v Speaker 2>when you're talking about these intelligence.

1030
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Agencies, opportunities or weapons of opportunity and a clean shot.

1031
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:12.679
<v Speaker 2>To the head, and usually it's a twenty two or

1032
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:16.960
<v Speaker 2>because you get the bounce around. Yeah and so yeah,

1033
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:20.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these guys would be military people. So

1034
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:23.519
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they might have had like a bunch

1035
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:26.159
<v Speaker 2>of weapons to choose from could be a thing.

1036
01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:26.920
<v Speaker 1>M h.

1037
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:31.360
<v Speaker 2>So I'm not singing that that to me exactly makes

1038
01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:33.880
<v Speaker 2>it seem like it's not the same person, just because

1039
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:37.320
<v Speaker 2>you know who was this guy? Was he ex military,

1040
01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:40.800
<v Speaker 2>he's got military boots. Yeah, he could have like a

1041
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:42.320
<v Speaker 2>fucking arsenal in his house.

1042
01:03:42.599 --> 01:03:45.840
<v Speaker 1>But you know who I had suggested was the Zodiac killer?

1043
01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:47.079
<v Speaker 1>If it was one guy? Right?

1044
01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, who Michael?

1045
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I did put a few notes in here,

1046
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:53.639
<v Speaker 1>and we'll see if I can convince you.

1047
01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I've always thought that that guy was capable of anything.

1048
01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:04.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, so the taxi driver, the so called Zodiac Killer.

1049
01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:07.559
<v Speaker 1>He picked him up on Mason Street and then drove

1050
01:04:07.639 --> 01:04:10.840
<v Speaker 1>him to an address in the Presidio Heights area of

1051
01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:13.599
<v Speaker 1>the city where he shot him once in the head

1052
01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Cia style. And there were these kids and this is

1053
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:22.960
<v Speaker 1>also in the movie that witnessed the murder of the

1054
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.840
<v Speaker 1>taxi driver and they called the police with a description

1055
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:31.639
<v Speaker 1>of the Zodiac Killer, but for unexplained reasons, the police

1056
01:04:31.719 --> 01:04:36.559
<v Speaker 1>dispatcher broadcast a description of a black perpetrator. He was

1057
01:04:36.679 --> 01:04:42.360
<v Speaker 1>black and had a huge afro, allowing the real shooter

1058
01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:47.840
<v Speaker 1>to evade a massive police response. So not only is

1059
01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:51.159
<v Speaker 1>he being protected by the police in this situation, he

1060
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:54.440
<v Speaker 1>gets this guy dropped off, or he takes this guy

1061
01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:59.400
<v Speaker 1>to the Presidio Heights area and they're finding military fucking

1062
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:03.000
<v Speaker 1>bootprints set these crime scenes. And I'm just saying, does

1063
01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:05.480
<v Speaker 1>that not sound like fucking Mike Lukino.

1064
01:05:06.679 --> 01:05:09.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean it could. It also makes me think of

1065
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:14.679
<v Speaker 2>that scene in The Cable Guy where Jim Carrey fucks

1066
01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:19.480
<v Speaker 2>up somebody. I think it's Owen Wilson actually that the

1067
01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:21.280
<v Speaker 2>girls on a date with he fucks them up in

1068
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:25.199
<v Speaker 2>the bathroom, and then the sketch rendering is like a

1069
01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:25.800
<v Speaker 2>black guy.

1070
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:28.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's that's what they do usually. Though he

1071
01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:31.199
<v Speaker 1>was black, I swear, Hey, you know what who else

1072
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:37.039
<v Speaker 1>they did that with Salmonio. Yeah, he was fucking stabbed

1073
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:40.000
<v Speaker 1>in an alley and they said that it was a

1074
01:05:40.039 --> 01:05:40.519
<v Speaker 1>black guy.

1075
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Everybody looks black that night.

1076
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:47.079
<v Speaker 1>No, they literally, Okay, I was gonna say, they literally

1077
01:05:47.079 --> 01:05:48.159
<v Speaker 1>blamed it on a black guy.

1078
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:50.800
<v Speaker 2>But it was like, honey, they're always blaming black guys.

1079
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:55.039
<v Speaker 1>They're always blaming black guys. But you know this to me,

1080
01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:59.760
<v Speaker 1>like the kids literally said to the police, there is

1081
01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:02.519
<v Speaker 1>a he looks like this, he just shot this taxi

1082
01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:06.599
<v Speaker 1>driver outside of our house. And the police dispatcher goes,

1083
01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:10.840
<v Speaker 1>there's a black male, Like, I mean, that's just a classic,

1084
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:14.599
<v Speaker 1>like literally to throw them off so they wouldn't be

1085
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:18.960
<v Speaker 1>looking for Michael Achino. Well, remember in uh they probably

1086
01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:21.320
<v Speaker 1>said he looks like fucking Mickey Mouse with his fucking

1087
01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:24.960
<v Speaker 1>haircut and a pumpkin pie haircut and fucking freak out.

1088
01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:26.719
<v Speaker 2>Here there's a nigram mouse on the.

1089
01:06:28.840 --> 01:06:32.119
<v Speaker 1>You know that fucking hairstyle that Michael Achino had with

1090
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:35.519
<v Speaker 1>the fucking he did that to like look like Mickey Mouse.

1091
01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I know that Sean McCann says that, and I

1092
01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:40.079
<v Speaker 2>feel like I've seen it somewhere else, but it might

1093
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:42.320
<v Speaker 2>have been him that I heard it from. Yeah, but yeah,

1094
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:45.199
<v Speaker 2>I have heard that. Sean McKennon says that, But the

1095
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:47.239
<v Speaker 2>fucking pointed eyebrows and shit too.

1096
01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:49.559
<v Speaker 1>That to me looks like the Devil.

1097
01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:53.639
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, it's very cartoonish. But so.

1098
01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:59.079
<v Speaker 1>It was two days after the taxi driver that a

1099
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:03.199
<v Speaker 1>new letter from the Zodiac claimed credit for the killing

1100
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and threatened a attack on a school bus by blowing it.

1101
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Up, which just doesn't fit.

1102
01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:12.320
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't fit it at all. No, and that's why

1103
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:15.719
<v Speaker 1>there are theories that Ted Kazinski was the Zodiac killer.

1104
01:07:15.800 --> 01:07:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I've heard that too.

1105
01:07:17.239 --> 01:07:18.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that fits at all.

1106
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.400
<v Speaker 2>No, he's Terrence McKenna.

1107
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Now some people might remember this from the movie, but

1108
01:07:29.119 --> 01:07:33.599
<v Speaker 1>I think that it's really interesting because October twenty second,

1109
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:38.679
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty nine, somebody identifying himself as the Zodiac called

1110
01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:44.159
<v Speaker 1>and requested to speak to either F. E. F Lee

1111
01:07:44.199 --> 01:07:52.039
<v Speaker 1>Bailey or San Francisco attorney Melvin Belli, And in a

1112
01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:56.159
<v Speaker 1>fucking theatrical turn of events, the man calling himself Sam

1113
01:07:56.760 --> 01:08:00.280
<v Speaker 1>ended up having a live chat on the air the

1114
01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:06.639
<v Speaker 1>ci A linked BELLI. Eight years later we would have

1115
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:11.760
<v Speaker 1>The Son of Sam, which also was CIA. So I

1116
01:08:11.800 --> 01:08:15.320
<v Speaker 1>think this is interesting if you're calling to say, like,

1117
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.560
<v Speaker 1>you're the Zodiac, but my name is Sam, and I

1118
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:20.039
<v Speaker 1>don't know what are your thoughts on that.

1119
01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you look into Marie what was his last name, Terry,

1120
01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:30.840
<v Speaker 2>his his work and it is one of the best documentaries.

1121
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:32.640
<v Speaker 1>I've seen on the Ultimate Evil, Well.

1122
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:35.560
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't even called That's that's the name of his book.

1123
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:38.800
<v Speaker 2>It was like, I don't know, I remember what they've

1124
01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:42.560
<v Speaker 2>they changed the name for the Netflix series, But that

1125
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:46.800
<v Speaker 2>is actually one of the things that made David McGowan

1126
01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:49.560
<v Speaker 2>want to write Program to Kill It was Mary Terry's work.

1127
01:08:50.319 --> 01:08:54.880
<v Speaker 2>So you get him going out on a limb really,

1128
01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:57.119
<v Speaker 2>but he did have some evidence to back it up

1129
01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:00.920
<v Speaker 2>that Sam through the processed church Let's connected to the

1130
01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Manson family. So if you're talking about the same era

1131
01:09:05.159 --> 01:09:08.680
<v Speaker 2>with the Zodiac stuff, I mean, I don't think with

1132
01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:10.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the groundwork that's been laid out by

1133
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:14.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot of other researchers, that's too far of a leap.

1134
01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:20.199
<v Speaker 2>And I mean, funk, what's his name, David Burkowitz. Yeah,

1135
01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:24.399
<v Speaker 2>So with David Berkowitz, I mean, the Son of Sam

1136
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:28.279
<v Speaker 2>that was his neighbor and it was like the Suns

1137
01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:31.399
<v Speaker 2>and that's where like the Talking dog and all that

1138
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:34.880
<v Speaker 2>stuff came into it. So yeah, I mean, who knows

1139
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:36.560
<v Speaker 2>it could be something.

1140
01:09:37.159 --> 01:09:40.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it just to me proves again that this

1141
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:46.640
<v Speaker 1>was all theater, even having this so called Zodiac guy

1142
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:49.399
<v Speaker 1>and like, you remember the other night when you played

1143
01:09:49.399 --> 01:09:51.039
<v Speaker 1>something and I was like, is that the Art Bell

1144
01:09:51.159 --> 01:09:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Show because it was so sensationalized a guy calling in about.

1145
01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:57.640
<v Speaker 2>The Yeah, it was the closing track on Tool.

1146
01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:01.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, And I was like, oh, is that from

1147
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:06.680
<v Speaker 1>the Art Bell Show? Because that was so popular and

1148
01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:10.600
<v Speaker 1>they're coming for us, they've been here all along. And

1149
01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:14.119
<v Speaker 1>then they have something like this with the Zodiac Killer

1150
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:16.720
<v Speaker 1>where he's like calling in and you can hear him

1151
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:19.640
<v Speaker 1>live and like, you know, all the atrocities that's been

1152
01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:23.359
<v Speaker 1>credited to him, and he's having a fucking friendly chat

1153
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:27.800
<v Speaker 1>with like this this CIA linked fucking guy, And it

1154
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:31.720
<v Speaker 1>just to me is like another aspect of the theatrics

1155
01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:35.359
<v Speaker 1>of it all, especially if it was multiple assailants and

1156
01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:39.880
<v Speaker 1>not just one guy. Like I don't know, no, I agree,

1157
01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:45.520
<v Speaker 1>it just seems so theatrical so Also in November nineteen

1158
01:10:46.359 --> 01:10:52.399
<v Speaker 1>sixty nine, these two fucking Scientologist motherfuckers were found savagely

1159
01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:55.640
<v Speaker 1>murdered on the streets of Los Angeles. Each of them

1160
01:10:55.720 --> 01:10:59.159
<v Speaker 1>had been stabbed more than fifty fucking times. One of

1161
01:10:59.199 --> 01:11:04.720
<v Speaker 1>the victims had dated Manson disciples Bruce Davis in nineteen

1162
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:08.840
<v Speaker 1>sixty eight, just before Charlie had sent Davis to London

1163
01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:13.000
<v Speaker 1>to visit both the headquarters of the Processed Church and

1164
01:11:13.119 --> 01:11:18.840
<v Speaker 1>the local Scientology school, and Bruce Davis was later convicted

1165
01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:25.239
<v Speaker 1>of other unrelated murder charges, and he has been identified

1166
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:30.199
<v Speaker 1>by some researchers as a possible suspect in the Zodiac

1167
01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:31.359
<v Speaker 1>killings as well.

1168
01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:38.279
<v Speaker 2>Your thoughts, well, I just it's funny that these other

1169
01:11:38.560 --> 01:11:44.079
<v Speaker 2>murder charges were unrelated when they're all pretty fucking unrelated.

1170
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:46.640
<v Speaker 1>But like they get away with certain things, like these

1171
01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:50.720
<v Speaker 1>two scientologists are found stabbed fifty fucking times a piece.

1172
01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there is a risk to join the Church

1173
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:55.760
<v Speaker 2>of Scientology.

1174
01:11:56.720 --> 01:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>That's a good one.

1175
01:11:57.920 --> 01:12:02.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean think about that though, Like a lot of

1176
01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:05.560
<v Speaker 2>the stuff that goes on in Hollywood is so intricately

1177
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:08.720
<v Speaker 2>linked with the Church of Scientology, and a lot of

1178
01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:12.560
<v Speaker 2>people do know that but it goes way back, and

1179
01:12:13.359 --> 01:12:16.399
<v Speaker 2>I mean if no one out there, if you're if

1180
01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:19.560
<v Speaker 2>you are interested in the scientology stuff. The movie The

1181
01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Master that Paul Thomas Anderson made where Philip Seymour Hoffman

1182
01:12:25.079 --> 01:12:29.079
<v Speaker 2>plays the like l Ron Hubbard esque character.

1183
01:12:29.399 --> 01:12:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

1184
01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:32.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean it just it kind of just shows you,

1185
01:12:32.600 --> 01:12:37.479
<v Speaker 2>like the web that was weaved. And as Sam Tripley

1186
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:40.840
<v Speaker 2>always says, like the Church of Scientology very well could

1187
01:12:40.880 --> 01:12:44.039
<v Speaker 2>have been like a naval intelligence operation. It's got many

1188
01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:45.600
<v Speaker 2>markings for that. Well.

1189
01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:49.239
<v Speaker 1>I covered it a little bit on Program to Kill

1190
01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:53.199
<v Speaker 1>Part six when I did like the history of a

1191
01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:57.199
<v Speaker 1>lot of these things in like occult groups, and the

1192
01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:02.399
<v Speaker 1>basis of scientology is Alster Crowley.

1193
01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean Hubbard was running around with those guys Parsons.

1194
01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:15.000
<v Speaker 2>What's the Nazis' name that started NASA Werner.

1195
01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:16.479
<v Speaker 1>Von Bron Warner von Bron.

1196
01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:21.760
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean the Church of Scientology. It's so

1197
01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:25.479
<v Speaker 2>weird because it's so secretive. Until South Park made their episodes,

1198
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>often I didn't see it.

1199
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, l is it good? Is it honest and truthful?

1200
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, it just repeats that Tom Cruise is trapped in.

1201
01:13:36.039 --> 01:13:42.920
<v Speaker 1>A closet over and over, But so they did consider

1202
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>this this Manson disciple fucking Zodiac suspect. And so again

1203
01:13:51.960 --> 01:13:57.520
<v Speaker 1>we kind of see like the Manson killings in the

1204
01:13:57.560 --> 01:14:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Manson family, I mean, alongside Zodiac in certain regards.

1205
01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:08.079
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and it's just like you pointed out earlier

1206
01:14:08.159 --> 01:14:12.680
<v Speaker 2>the dates m h. It's almost like you have a

1207
01:14:12.680 --> 01:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Psya up in La and Asia op in the Bay

1208
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Area and they are in tandem.

1209
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:23.159
<v Speaker 1>And so with that, do you kind of think do

1210
01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:27.000
<v Speaker 1>you kind of see like like if Zodiac was multiple assailants,

1211
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:29.880
<v Speaker 1>like one guy was the knife guy, one guy was

1212
01:14:29.960 --> 01:14:33.520
<v Speaker 1>like the gun guy, one guy was like the bomb guy.

1213
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Does that sound stupid?

1214
01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean not necessarily, Like if you.

1215
01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Were going to kill someone, if they were like, hey

1216
01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:43.560
<v Speaker 1>we got a couple of people. We want you to

1217
01:14:43.560 --> 01:14:46.199
<v Speaker 1>go stab them up or like go kill them and

1218
01:14:46.239 --> 01:14:47.800
<v Speaker 1>you're like, oh, well I'll knife them.

1219
01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, like we were talking about earlier, it's weapons of opportunity.

1220
01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:53.600
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's not always going to be the same.

1221
01:14:53.720 --> 01:14:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Like one guy was real theatrical. He was like I'm

1222
01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:58.439
<v Speaker 1>gonna knife them and I'm gonna wear a costume.

1223
01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, he probably had his own theme song.

1224
01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:07.439
<v Speaker 1>I wonder how that went. So there was this guy,

1225
01:15:08.199 --> 01:15:14.800
<v Speaker 1>his name was Stanley Baker, and he murdered this person.

1226
01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:18.399
<v Speaker 1>And when they arrested him, he said, I have a problem.

1227
01:15:18.399 --> 01:15:23.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm a cannibal. And he fucking pulled this fucking nod

1228
01:15:23.239 --> 01:15:27.199
<v Speaker 1>off human finger out of his fucking pocket, and he

1229
01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:32.119
<v Speaker 1>literally confessed his involvement in a number of other murders

1230
01:15:32.159 --> 01:15:34.840
<v Speaker 1>that he claimed he committed as a member of the

1231
01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:37.880
<v Speaker 1>process spawned for pie cult. Have you heard of it?

1232
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:41.199
<v Speaker 2>I think from mm.

1233
01:15:41.079 --> 01:15:44.560
<v Speaker 1>Hmm, And I also mentioned it in the last episode

1234
01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:50.199
<v Speaker 1>of Program to Kill, and police were able to confirm

1235
01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:57.159
<v Speaker 1>his complicity in a particularly brutal mutilation murder in San

1236
01:15:57.239 --> 01:16:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Francisco thanks to his having left behind a bloody fingerprint,

1237
01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:08.000
<v Speaker 1>but somehow California courts still declined to prosecute Baker for

1238
01:16:08.039 --> 01:16:11.880
<v Speaker 1>the homicide, with the ridiculous claim that he had been

1239
01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:17.840
<v Speaker 1>denied a speedy trial, despite his confessed involvement in a

1240
01:16:18.079 --> 01:16:23.399
<v Speaker 1>number of murders, and despite the fact that the murder

1241
01:16:23.439 --> 01:16:26.880
<v Speaker 1>for which he was convicted involved him ripping out the

1242
01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:31.520
<v Speaker 1>man's heart and fucking eating it. And Baker was released

1243
01:16:31.520 --> 01:16:36.239
<v Speaker 1>from prison after just fourteen years, and according to recent reports,

1244
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:42.159
<v Speaker 1>he remains at large today and during his incarceration, he

1245
01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:47.880
<v Speaker 1>started his own satanic cult and had eleven weapons confiscated

1246
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:48.560
<v Speaker 1>from him.

1247
01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:50.399
<v Speaker 2>By guards, all at the same time.

1248
01:16:51.159 --> 01:16:53.279
<v Speaker 1>They were all in his ass.

1249
01:16:53.840 --> 01:16:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, it's weird that it seems very Henry

1250
01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:00.520
<v Speaker 2>le Lucas, But.

1251
01:17:00.439 --> 01:17:02.880
<v Speaker 1>That's probably why I put that in my notes, because

1252
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:06.319
<v Speaker 1>it seems as though some people, especially when they end

1253
01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:10.560
<v Speaker 1>up being cannibals and shit like Henry Lee Lucas in

1254
01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Otice Tool, they get protected from on high. He didn't

1255
01:17:14.560 --> 01:17:16.960
<v Speaker 1>have a speedy trial, so he gets off the hook.

1256
01:17:17.199 --> 01:17:18.760
<v Speaker 1>He ripped a man's heart out.

1257
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:23.199
<v Speaker 2>A good reason, wasn't speedy enough or like.

1258
01:17:23.880 --> 01:17:27.159
<v Speaker 1>So they find his bloody fingerprints. They're able to connect

1259
01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:30.079
<v Speaker 1>him to multiple burders and his own confession, and then

1260
01:17:30.159 --> 01:17:32.359
<v Speaker 1>he confesses and he rips a man's heart out, and

1261
01:17:32.359 --> 01:17:35.000
<v Speaker 1>he has a fucking person's not off finger in his pocket,

1262
01:17:35.039 --> 01:17:39.199
<v Speaker 1>and he gets fourteen years and fucking that's it. That's

1263
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:40.880
<v Speaker 1>all she wrote. He says he's part.

1264
01:17:40.720 --> 01:17:43.479
<v Speaker 2>Of Colts too, and then started his own.

1265
01:17:43.439 --> 01:17:46.119
<v Speaker 1>And then started his own cult and somehow has weapons

1266
01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:46.560
<v Speaker 1>in jail.

1267
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if they found eleven, imagine how many of

1268
01:17:50.520 --> 01:17:51.159
<v Speaker 2>they didn't find.

1269
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm just saying like, that's pretty fucked up, and

1270
01:17:54.279 --> 01:17:57.920
<v Speaker 1>they're usually connected when they're protected from on high like that,

1271
01:17:58.920 --> 01:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>of course. But so in the late nineteen sixties and

1272
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:06.479
<v Speaker 1>early nineteen seventies, not only did Stanley Baker, who's ripping

1273
01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:09.319
<v Speaker 1>people's hearts out and chewing their fucking fingers off, and

1274
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Charlie Manson migrate away from San Francisco, many other disenchanted

1275
01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:17.279
<v Speaker 1>hippies and flower children did as well.

1276
01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so to me, you get northern California is like

1277
01:18:24.399 --> 01:18:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the mecca. It's like the birthplace of the serial killer movement.

1278
01:18:29.119 --> 01:18:32.319
<v Speaker 2>And how can that be coincidental? You have many many

1279
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:38.039
<v Speaker 2>you have many military intelligence operations going on there, you know,

1280
01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:43.359
<v Speaker 2>including like the acid movement, and it's also where a

1281
01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:46.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of these fuckers came from, and Michael Lokino as well.

1282
01:18:47.199 --> 01:18:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Mmmmm, that's where I mean, California should just fall off

1283
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:55.239
<v Speaker 1>the fucking map at this point.

1284
01:18:55.279 --> 01:18:58.439
<v Speaker 2>It's cozy, learn just swim.

1285
01:18:57.880 --> 01:18:59.479
<v Speaker 1>Like I feel like you go there and you just

1286
01:18:59.680 --> 01:19:02.319
<v Speaker 1>die Laurel Canyon death.

1287
01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, we're only fourteen miles above there.

1288
01:19:06.720 --> 01:19:10.319
<v Speaker 1>You think if we go visit, we'll get taped Bobby

1289
01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:13.319
<v Speaker 1>on Good, No, we're not famous enough.

1290
01:19:13.359 --> 01:19:14.800
<v Speaker 2>You'll probably be it.

1291
01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:16.399
<v Speaker 1>We'll be one of those nameless.

1292
01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Spaces like the Stanley Hotel.

1293
01:19:19.119 --> 01:19:22.239
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to be the male Black Dahlia?

1294
01:19:23.239 --> 01:19:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Only if I can survive to tell the tale.

1295
01:19:25.319 --> 01:19:29.279
<v Speaker 1>Now with your fucking dick cut off and your fucking.

1296
01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:34.079
<v Speaker 2>The medical industry is very it's the advancements are amazing.

1297
01:19:34.359 --> 01:19:36.439
<v Speaker 1>They can put your body back together if it's like

1298
01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:37.760
<v Speaker 1>hacked in in many pieces.

1299
01:19:37.960 --> 01:19:39.880
<v Speaker 2>I could just be like a torso and a wheelchair.

1300
01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:45.600
<v Speaker 1>You'll have a colostomy back.

1301
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:47.920
<v Speaker 2>I always wanted one.

1302
01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm not changing it. We'll have to get home nurse.

1303
01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Most of these motherfuckers ended up in Santa Cruz.

1304
01:19:56.800 --> 01:20:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Let's where the last boys to place is. It didn't

1305
01:20:03.600 --> 01:20:05.800
<v Speaker 2>got the name of that vampire movie?

1306
01:20:06.079 --> 01:20:09.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Santa Cruz. Okay, well that makes sense.

1307
01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:11.760
<v Speaker 2>It's the vampire.

1308
01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:18.479
<v Speaker 1>And so a lot of them began to operate small

1309
01:20:19.279 --> 01:20:25.359
<v Speaker 1>portable pill factories in the remote parts of the forest,

1310
01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:30.680
<v Speaker 1>turning out LSD and amphetamines for the city market, free

1311
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:32.399
<v Speaker 1>of police harassment.

1312
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, puck, yeah, it was keeping those guys in work.

1313
01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:45.279
<v Speaker 1>M HM. Also, seemingly random, motiveless killings quickly began to

1314
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:51.520
<v Speaker 1>plague Santa Cruz, and on October nineteenth, nineteen seventy, in

1315
01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:55.279
<v Speaker 1>a case closely mirroring the slaughter at the Tate House

1316
01:20:55.319 --> 01:21:01.560
<v Speaker 1>the year before, John Lindley Frasier allegedly acts alone killed

1317
01:21:01.720 --> 01:21:05.920
<v Speaker 1>all the occupants of a home in Santa Cruz, including

1318
01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:11.800
<v Speaker 1>a prominent doctor, his wife, secretary, and two children. Frasier,

1319
01:21:12.039 --> 01:21:16.079
<v Speaker 1>who was known to have a strong interest in the occult,

1320
01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:21.479
<v Speaker 1>was said to have started his own lifestyle as an

1321
01:21:21.520 --> 01:21:26.399
<v Speaker 1>aquarian age hermit living in a six foot square shack

1322
01:21:26.680 --> 01:21:33.000
<v Speaker 1>in the woods, a lifestyle later adopted by Fucking Ted Kaczinski.

1323
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:38.399
<v Speaker 1>Ted Kazinski, by the way, was a subject of mk

1324
01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:43.399
<v Speaker 1>Ultra experiments while he was a young student at Harvard

1325
01:21:43.720 --> 01:21:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and had been named by some researchers, as we were

1326
01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:51.399
<v Speaker 1>saying earlier, as a suspect in the Zodiac killings, although

1327
01:21:51.760 --> 01:21:57.119
<v Speaker 1>I disagree. I don't think he fits Zodiac, but he

1328
01:21:57.279 --> 01:21:59.199
<v Speaker 1>was MK ultra as a motherfucker.

1329
01:22:00.039 --> 01:22:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And a lot of people kind of cross the

1330
01:22:04.119 --> 01:22:09.439
<v Speaker 2>stories there because he was I think sixteen when he

1331
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:12.479
<v Speaker 2>went to Harvard, so he was like sixteen or seventeen

1332
01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:15.199
<v Speaker 2>when he got into the mk lter experiments. His didn't

1333
01:22:15.239 --> 01:22:19.600
<v Speaker 2>have anything to do with LSD. They actually just had

1334
01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:23.800
<v Speaker 2>him like right, out like humiliating fears.

1335
01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>He had, and then damn and then they.

1336
01:22:26.520 --> 01:22:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Just like chastised him until he broke and we all

1337
01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:32.319
<v Speaker 2>know where that led.

1338
01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:35.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he looked like a crazy motherfucker there at the

1339
01:22:35.239 --> 01:22:38.520
<v Speaker 1>end too. He just died recently. He died this year,

1340
01:22:38.520 --> 01:22:38.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't he.

1341
01:22:39.359 --> 01:22:40.720
<v Speaker 2>I think it was a couple of years, or like

1342
01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:41.359
<v Speaker 2>last year.

1343
01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it was last year, but so curiously, just over

1344
01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:48.840
<v Speaker 1>a week after the Fraser killings, a Halloween card was

1345
01:22:48.880 --> 01:22:53.840
<v Speaker 1>received from the Zodiac, and more cards and letters followed,

1346
01:22:54.319 --> 01:22:58.680
<v Speaker 1>the last of which arrived in nineteen seventy four. The

1347
01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:03.239
<v Speaker 1>murders were never solved, though many believe that Manson and

1348
01:23:03.279 --> 01:23:08.039
<v Speaker 1>the Zodiac killer were connected, which I definitely think they were,

1349
01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:12.199
<v Speaker 1>But no one ever puts those two things together, because,

1350
01:23:12.840 --> 01:23:17.880
<v Speaker 1>like I said before, they've been brainwashed by fucking Netflix

1351
01:23:18.039 --> 01:23:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and fucking HBO documentaries, and they never fucking put the

1352
01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:24.640
<v Speaker 1>pieces together that those two things could either be connected

1353
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:27.640
<v Speaker 1>or be ran by the same people.

1354
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1355
01:23:29.359 --> 01:23:35.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and fucking soon after Frasier's rampage, women began going

1356
01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:39.760
<v Speaker 1>missing from around the Santa Cruz area. As early as

1357
01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:44.399
<v Speaker 1>autumn of nineteen sixty eight, reports began surfacing of grizzly

1358
01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:49.279
<v Speaker 1>occult sacrifices being performed in the surrounding mountains, and by

1359
01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:52.399
<v Speaker 1>the summer of nineteen seventy two, it was clear that

1360
01:23:52.479 --> 01:23:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Santa Cruz had a fucking problem. Mutilated bodies began showing

1361
01:23:57.119 --> 01:24:00.840
<v Speaker 1>up in the hills. By the time nine teen seventy three,

1362
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:04.800
<v Speaker 1>world around, the bodies were piling up at an alarming rate.

1363
01:24:05.319 --> 01:24:08.039
<v Speaker 1>In just the first six weeks of the year, eight

1364
01:24:08.119 --> 01:24:12.960
<v Speaker 1>bodies were found, and women were continuing to disappear. Santa

1365
01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Cruz had achieved the distinction of having the highest homicide

1366
01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:21.960
<v Speaker 1>rate in the country. Many of the area's killings were

1367
01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:27.399
<v Speaker 1>credited to two alleged serial killers, Edmund Kemper and Herb Mullen,

1368
01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:31.359
<v Speaker 1>who were said to be operating at the same time

1369
01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:36.640
<v Speaker 1>in the same city, though acting completely independently of each other.

1370
01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:39.159
<v Speaker 2>They were like the cocin Pepsi of serial murder.

1371
01:24:39.840 --> 01:24:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Do you know much about these two?

1372
01:24:42.199 --> 01:24:45.199
<v Speaker 2>Uh? In passing? Neither one of them might really dove

1373
01:24:45.720 --> 01:24:47.039
<v Speaker 2>headfirst into.

1374
01:24:47.199 --> 01:24:51.920
<v Speaker 1>They're definitely, like you said, like Henry Lee and Otis,

1375
01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:55.640
<v Speaker 1>but like if they never teamed up, like they were

1376
01:24:55.800 --> 01:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>very similar and honestly, they have a really high body

1377
01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:03.119
<v Speaker 1>count for a lot of people, you know when you

1378
01:25:03.159 --> 01:25:07.159
<v Speaker 1>say serial killer, Like, what are the names people think of?

1379
01:25:07.720 --> 01:25:12.039
<v Speaker 1>Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Like those are

1380
01:25:12.039 --> 01:25:15.640
<v Speaker 1>the biggies, Those are who people recognize. But these two

1381
01:25:15.680 --> 01:25:21.439
<v Speaker 1>assholes Edmund Kemper and fucking bitch Tit fucking this Herb Mullin,

1382
01:25:22.079 --> 01:25:25.319
<v Speaker 1>like they have huge body counts and for some reason

1383
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:29.279
<v Speaker 1>they are not sensationalized in the same way as a

1384
01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:32.399
<v Speaker 1>lot of other serial killers are, which is interesting to me.

1385
01:25:34.319 --> 01:25:40.479
<v Speaker 1>But Kemper's bloody odyssey reportedly included eight victims brutally butchered

1386
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:45.000
<v Speaker 1>between May nineteen seventy two and April nineteen seventy three,

1387
01:25:45.439 --> 01:25:49.600
<v Speaker 1>most of them co eds whose corpses were cannibalized and

1388
01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:55.399
<v Speaker 1>sexually violated. So there is another.

1389
01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:04.159
<v Speaker 2>I like to eat.

1390
01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:06.279
<v Speaker 1>It.

1391
01:26:06.439 --> 01:26:22.479
<v Speaker 5>Fucked the pieces, babe, Oh my god, how do you

1392
01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:26.399
<v Speaker 5>cannibalize them and then sexually violate them anyways, unless.

1393
01:26:26.079 --> 01:26:33.039
<v Speaker 2>You like they're getting wined and dined, babe.

1394
01:26:33.079 --> 01:26:36.359
<v Speaker 1>You're just as twisted it fucked up as I am.

1395
01:26:36.359 --> 01:26:39.039
<v Speaker 2>More so so.

1396
01:26:39.159 --> 01:26:44.760
<v Speaker 1>This asshole. Fucking Mullen was credited with dispatching thirteen victims

1397
01:26:44.800 --> 01:26:48.720
<v Speaker 1>in just four months from October thirteenth nineteen seventy two

1398
01:26:49.239 --> 01:26:55.479
<v Speaker 1>through February thirteenth, nineteen seventy three, Mullen admitted to having

1399
01:26:55.520 --> 01:26:58.880
<v Speaker 1>a strong interest in the occult, a fact made evident

1400
01:26:58.960 --> 01:27:01.960
<v Speaker 1>by the nature of the killings attributed to him. The

1401
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:05.159
<v Speaker 1>first victim was killed on Friday the thirteenth, the second

1402
01:27:05.479 --> 01:27:08.880
<v Speaker 1>honor about Halloween, and the third murder was the stabbing

1403
01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:13.039
<v Speaker 1>of a Catholic priest in his confessional on November second,

1404
01:27:13.159 --> 01:27:18.800
<v Speaker 1>celebrated as All Souls Day. Now to briefly recap, no

1405
01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:24.279
<v Speaker 1>fewer than six serial killers slash mass murderers, Charles Manson,

1406
01:27:24.439 --> 01:27:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Stanley Baker, Edmund Kempert, Herbert Mullen, John Lyndley Fraser, and

1407
01:27:31.119 --> 01:27:35.199
<v Speaker 1>the Zodiac were all spawned from the Santa Cruz, San

1408
01:27:35.279 --> 01:27:40.159
<v Speaker 1>Francisco metropolitan area in a span of just over four years,

1409
01:27:40.439 --> 01:27:43.600
<v Speaker 1>at a time when the serial killers were a rare

1410
01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:48.760
<v Speaker 1>enough phenomenon that they hadn't yet acquired a name. So

1411
01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:57.039
<v Speaker 1>I think that this time in history was ushering in

1412
01:27:58.439 --> 01:28:02.960
<v Speaker 1>the phenomenon of the serial killer. I mean, think of

1413
01:28:03.039 --> 01:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>the names on that list. A lot of them people

1414
01:28:05.720 --> 01:28:09.319
<v Speaker 1>aren't even familiar with, Like the Stanley Baker guy here.

1415
01:28:09.359 --> 01:28:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would just say Charles Manson and the Zodiac.

1416
01:28:12.279 --> 01:28:16.239
<v Speaker 2>You get those four dudes in the middle. Yeah, I

1417
01:28:16.239 --> 01:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>don't think anybody knows who those are. If they're just

1418
01:28:18.960 --> 01:28:23.560
<v Speaker 2>like you know, they're true crime hobbyists. Those names aren't

1419
01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:27.159
<v Speaker 2>gonna come up a lot. Stanley Baker, Edmund Kemper, Herbert Mullen,

1420
01:28:27.560 --> 01:28:28.920
<v Speaker 2>John Lindley.

1421
01:28:28.680 --> 01:28:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Frasier, like you don't hear about them.

1422
01:28:31.720 --> 01:28:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're definitely not as big as Manson and Zodiac.

1423
01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:37.279
<v Speaker 1>But do you think this was the training wheels for

1424
01:28:37.319 --> 01:28:39.800
<v Speaker 1>what was going to become the tied Bundy's and the

1425
01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Dahmins.

1426
01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>And then the hotbed area being northern California of course,

1427
01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:49.359
<v Speaker 2>right would be kind of where I mean, you had

1428
01:28:49.359 --> 01:28:54.479
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these like satanic ritual abuse stuff happening

1429
01:28:54.520 --> 01:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>with kids, and Michael Lochino also who he keep masking.

1430
01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:01.119
<v Speaker 1>Was that happening that was happening around this same time

1431
01:29:01.159 --> 01:29:06.359
<v Speaker 1>too though, right? Yeah, so you have that and this.

1432
01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I think like the lid getting blown

1433
01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:13.520
<v Speaker 2>off of all the sex abuse scandals with the military

1434
01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:16.119
<v Speaker 2>bases and preschools was much.

1435
01:29:16.039 --> 01:29:19.319
<v Speaker 1>Later than this, but it's the same area.

1436
01:29:19.560 --> 01:29:22.479
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you look at Michael Achino's past himself,

1437
01:29:22.520 --> 01:29:26.920
<v Speaker 2>as a child. It's it was going on way before

1438
01:29:26.960 --> 01:29:29.119
<v Speaker 2>any of this, So yeah, I think it's safe to

1439
01:29:29.159 --> 01:29:32.119
<v Speaker 2>say that it was the breeding ground for it.

1440
01:29:32.640 --> 01:29:38.439
<v Speaker 1>And also what was taking place in this in this

1441
01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>era is something that you and I love to talk about,

1442
01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:44.199
<v Speaker 1>which is Laurel Canyon.

1443
01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you had in this area, the one everybody knew

1444
01:29:48.359 --> 01:29:51.640
<v Speaker 2>about for the longest time before McGowan's work would be

1445
01:29:52.359 --> 01:29:57.239
<v Speaker 2>just the the LSD music scene with all of the

1446
01:29:57.279 --> 01:30:05.119
<v Speaker 2>fucking tell tale c A connections and just the basic psyop.

1447
01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:09.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, for fuck's sake, you had Courtney Love's dad

1448
01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:09.760
<v Speaker 2>back there.

1449
01:30:10.600 --> 01:30:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you feel like it's a hard one. It's like,

1450
01:30:14.239 --> 01:30:18.640
<v Speaker 1>when I first found out about the Laurel Canyon connections,

1451
01:30:19.159 --> 01:30:21.640
<v Speaker 1>it was hard for me to believe that all of

1452
01:30:21.680 --> 01:30:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the people that I grew up loving so much could

1453
01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:27.640
<v Speaker 1>be like this could all.

1454
01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Just be.

1455
01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:34.560
<v Speaker 1>For me controlled I guess, yeah, it's hard. So it's

1456
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:38.239
<v Speaker 1>like even harder to believe that they're running multiple programs

1457
01:30:38.279 --> 01:30:40.399
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, or it's actually easier to believe

1458
01:30:40.399 --> 01:30:42.560
<v Speaker 1>that they're running multiple programs at the same time. You

1459
01:30:42.640 --> 01:30:46.279
<v Speaker 1>got the Laurel Canyon, you got counterculture movement happening, you

1460
01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:49.199
<v Speaker 1>have all this pedophilia shit going down, and then you

1461
01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:52.800
<v Speaker 1>have serial killers. It's like they're trying, they're testing the

1462
01:30:52.840 --> 01:30:56.520
<v Speaker 1>waters for multiple and the Laurel Canyon body count is

1463
01:30:56.520 --> 01:30:57.760
<v Speaker 1>fucking forever long too.

1464
01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:02.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean this definitely took off in California, but

1465
01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:06.560
<v Speaker 2>you had like Tavistock with the Beatles and like the

1466
01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:10.439
<v Speaker 2>Tennessee music scene. A lot of this stuff was happening

1467
01:31:10.479 --> 01:31:13.319
<v Speaker 2>way before this. But it's almost like they just went

1468
01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:17.199
<v Speaker 2>fucking hogwild in California, like they were.

1469
01:31:17.119 --> 01:31:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Just given it was the birthplace.

1470
01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, it was like an experiment on many levels

1471
01:31:25.119 --> 01:31:26.920
<v Speaker 2>and a multi.

1472
01:31:26.680 --> 01:31:31.319
<v Speaker 1>Layer, like a five layer burrito of like CIA programs.

1473
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I think a lot of blowback happened from

1474
01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:37.199
<v Speaker 2>it too, because if you look at like, yeah, you

1475
01:31:37.239 --> 01:31:40.720
<v Speaker 2>mentioned earlier, none of this shit outside Santa Cruz was

1476
01:31:40.760 --> 01:31:45.840
<v Speaker 2>sensationalized now the Manson killings, where it's almost like America

1477
01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:50.239
<v Speaker 2>just had an overload with the Manson stuff and it

1478
01:31:50.319 --> 01:31:53.640
<v Speaker 2>wasn't They didn't either, They didn't feel the need to

1479
01:31:53.680 --> 01:31:56.560
<v Speaker 2>blow it up in the media like they did Manson

1480
01:31:56.640 --> 01:31:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and the others in Zodiac. But this other stuff's way

1481
01:31:59.800 --> 01:32:02.560
<v Speaker 2>more interesting to me, where you had just like these

1482
01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:07.920
<v Speaker 2>independent people maybe working on their own volition, fucking sacrificing

1483
01:32:07.960 --> 01:32:10.520
<v Speaker 2>people ritualistically in the mountains of Santa Cruz.

1484
01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:12.000
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty fun.

1485
01:32:12.199 --> 01:32:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Could it be blowback or was it part of the

1486
01:32:14.199 --> 01:32:17.159
<v Speaker 2>plan too, where it was just like, you know, that

1487
01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>was our rough draft. We'll just throw this one away.

1488
01:32:19.800 --> 01:32:20.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1489
01:32:21.640 --> 01:32:26.039
<v Speaker 1>Now to kind of give the listeners a little hint

1490
01:32:26.560 --> 01:32:29.399
<v Speaker 1>on what we're going to be talking about in our

1491
01:32:29.560 --> 01:32:31.199
<v Speaker 1>next episode together.

1492
01:32:31.119 --> 01:32:36.319
<v Speaker 2>And a hint for me too, is that.

1493
01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Another serial killer was said to be at work not

1494
01:32:41.880 --> 01:32:46.159
<v Speaker 1>far away. During the same timeframe, the bodies of at

1495
01:32:46.279 --> 01:32:50.920
<v Speaker 1>least fourteen young women and girls were found nude and

1496
01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:56.439
<v Speaker 1>with their belongings missing in northern California between December nineteen

1497
01:32:56.479 --> 01:33:00.960
<v Speaker 1>sixty nine and December nineteen seventy three. In the immediate

1498
01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:05.439
<v Speaker 1>vicinity of each of the bodies was found an elaborate

1499
01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:11.039
<v Speaker 1>witchcraft symbol of twigs and rocks that was mentioned in

1500
01:33:11.199 --> 01:33:15.319
<v Speaker 1>a very well researched book I read called The Deliberate

1501
01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Stranger by Richard Larson. You should read that. It's really good,

1502
01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:26.319
<v Speaker 1>and he was investigating the one and only Theodore Robert Bundy.

1503
01:33:27.279 --> 01:33:31.479
<v Speaker 1>It's curious no one ever mentions this though in the

1504
01:33:31.560 --> 01:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Netflix documentaries about the fucking Twigs and berry fucking occult

1505
01:33:38.159 --> 01:33:44.239
<v Speaker 1>fucking insignia that was found near all of the Bundy victims.

1506
01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not well known.

1507
01:33:47.720 --> 01:33:51.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and like I said, I do think that

1508
01:33:52.119 --> 01:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>the fucking Manson Stanley Baker, Edmund Kimper, Herbert Mullen, John Linley,

1509
01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:03.279
<v Speaker 1>Free Zodiac, like they were the training wheels for like

1510
01:34:03.359 --> 01:34:06.399
<v Speaker 1>these bigger projects that they were working on. Because then

1511
01:34:06.439 --> 01:34:09.000
<v Speaker 1>it all of a sudden we get fucking Ted Bundy.

1512
01:34:09.199 --> 01:34:12.279
<v Speaker 1>And then was it not long after that? Who was

1513
01:34:12.600 --> 01:34:17.000
<v Speaker 1>right after Ted Bundy? Maybe like dom No gay Sy

1514
01:34:17.199 --> 01:34:24.119
<v Speaker 1>and then Dahmer because Dahmer was like nineties, I.

1515
01:34:24.079 --> 01:34:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Mean maybe as far back as the seventies and eighties.

1516
01:34:26.880 --> 01:34:29.560
<v Speaker 2>They've tried to link a lot of stuff to him.

1517
01:34:29.760 --> 01:34:30.239
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmmm.

1518
01:34:30.399 --> 01:34:34.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean he's another you know, military baby.

1519
01:34:35.239 --> 01:34:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean sure.

1520
01:34:36.399 --> 01:34:40.439
<v Speaker 2>They've tried to say that there was stuff in Germany,

1521
01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I believe where he was stationed that went unsolved. Well,

1522
01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:47.880
<v Speaker 2>he was there, so he could have been getting his

1523
01:34:47.960 --> 01:34:52.159
<v Speaker 2>fucking fingers wet long before the Netflix shit talked.

1524
01:34:52.000 --> 01:34:55.800
<v Speaker 1>About Did you watch any of those which ones like

1525
01:34:55.840 --> 01:35:00.680
<v Speaker 1>the Netflix on you did? We talk talked about it

1526
01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:04.720
<v Speaker 1>on on Ted Bundy and Jeff Hmer, the Ted Bundy

1527
01:35:04.720 --> 01:35:05.319
<v Speaker 1>tapes around.

1528
01:35:05.399 --> 01:35:07.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I see a lot of that stuff. I'll

1529
01:35:07.640 --> 01:35:10.720
<v Speaker 2>start and I don't, I don't. I mean a lot

1530
01:35:10.720 --> 01:35:14.199
<v Speaker 2>of it's just regurgitated. And I mean back when I

1531
01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:17.159
<v Speaker 2>was a teenager, I read all the serial Killer books

1532
01:35:17.880 --> 01:35:20.479
<v Speaker 2>and the tapes. I mean, they're interesting, but it seems

1533
01:35:20.479 --> 01:35:24.239
<v Speaker 2>to me like Netflix really wants to draw this shit out, yeah,

1534
01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:25.640
<v Speaker 2>ties or whatever.

1535
01:35:25.840 --> 01:35:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1536
01:35:26.239 --> 01:35:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I did find the fictionalized version with Evan Peters to be.

1537
01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh of Jeff Dahmer phenomenal. Oh yeah, now that was

1538
01:35:37.079 --> 01:35:41.039
<v Speaker 1>one that was like, I do think they snuck some

1539
01:35:41.079 --> 01:35:41.479
<v Speaker 1>woke shit.

1540
01:35:41.720 --> 01:35:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh. They definitely tried to make it a race thing.

1541
01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah they did.

1542
01:35:45.199 --> 01:35:48.119
<v Speaker 2>There was that element to it. But he didn't fucking discriminate.

1543
01:35:49.039 --> 01:35:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, he had an Alaoesian kid, He had black guys,

1544
01:35:53.800 --> 01:35:54.560
<v Speaker 1>white guys.

1545
01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:55.199
<v Speaker 2>He had.

1546
01:35:55.319 --> 01:35:58.159
<v Speaker 4>They talked about the kid in the in the in

1547
01:35:58.159 --> 01:36:03.319
<v Speaker 4>the show, Yeah, what was his name, conorrac synthis.

1548
01:36:02.960 --> 01:36:03.800
<v Speaker 1>In foam.

1549
01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:06.079
<v Speaker 2>Say that five times then.

1550
01:36:07.039 --> 01:36:12.239
<v Speaker 1>But you know, I think that they do kind of

1551
01:36:12.359 --> 01:36:15.359
<v Speaker 1>make celebrities out of these motherfuckers, not.

1552
01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Just kind of God's out of them.

1553
01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:23.439
<v Speaker 1>They are kind of like idols a little and so

1554
01:36:23.800 --> 01:36:27.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, can I ask you something from a man's

1555
01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:31.920
<v Speaker 1>perspective and like you just give me your honest answer. Okay,

1556
01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:35.560
<v Speaker 1>So I watched a documentary and actually, when I came

1557
01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:37.439
<v Speaker 1>to visit you the first time, I really wanted you

1558
01:36:37.479 --> 01:36:39.479
<v Speaker 1>to watch it with me. And maybe we'll get around

1559
01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>to it one day. It's on Amazon Prime, but it's

1560
01:36:41.880 --> 01:36:47.359
<v Speaker 1>it's Ted Bundy's long term girlfriend giving her account of

1561
01:36:47.960 --> 01:36:50.720
<v Speaker 1>how she saw things unfolding.

1562
01:36:51.600 --> 01:36:53.840
<v Speaker 2>And this is the one that like talked to him

1563
01:36:54.319 --> 01:36:55.880
<v Speaker 2>right before he got executed. Yeah.

1564
01:36:55.960 --> 01:37:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Her name is Elizabeth Klepford and she actually turned him

1565
01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:06.640
<v Speaker 1>in and that was in the the zach Efron movies too. Yeah, Now,

1566
01:37:07.560 --> 01:37:11.199
<v Speaker 1>if he was doing this stuff and he was necrofiling

1567
01:37:12.039 --> 01:37:15.640
<v Speaker 1>and obviously he's got these fucking twigs and berry fucking

1568
01:37:15.800 --> 01:37:18.520
<v Speaker 1>witchcraft symbols and doing all this ship up in the mountains,

1569
01:37:18.960 --> 01:37:22.520
<v Speaker 1>some of the girls were decapitated, some of them like

1570
01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:26.319
<v Speaker 1>they were in various states of mutilation. And he's going

1571
01:37:26.359 --> 01:37:29.439
<v Speaker 1>back home to Elizabeth and they're fucking and she's not

1572
01:37:29.560 --> 01:37:32.600
<v Speaker 1>getting one hint of a fucking iota of a fucking

1573
01:37:32.680 --> 01:37:34.560
<v Speaker 1>clue that there's something wrong with him.

1574
01:37:35.760 --> 01:37:37.960
<v Speaker 2>An accomplice for all right now, But that's.

1575
01:37:37.760 --> 01:37:39.760
<v Speaker 1>What I'm saying. It would make more sense that she

1576
01:37:39.920 --> 01:37:43.000
<v Speaker 1>never got a yeast infection, never got a UTI. I

1577
01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:47.159
<v Speaker 1>don't know he's she never said that though she never

1578
01:37:47.399 --> 01:37:49.720
<v Speaker 1>she was like, oh, I would have never known he

1579
01:37:49.880 --> 01:37:55.000
<v Speaker 1>was with the dead bodies. You would have had to, right,

1580
01:37:55.039 --> 01:38:00.039
<v Speaker 1>because like, if you're fucking a dead vagina.

1581
01:37:59.680 --> 01:38:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Going to me from a man's perspective.

1582
01:38:01.520 --> 01:38:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Like, no, I'm saying, like, do you think she would

1583
01:38:07.520 --> 01:38:10.439
<v Speaker 1>have gotten an infection from that? Or do you think I.

1584
01:38:10.399 --> 01:38:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Mean, I'm not a doctor, but it seems risky.

1585
01:38:18.520 --> 01:38:25.319
<v Speaker 1>And also if she never got a hint of anything right,

1586
01:38:26.600 --> 01:38:31.119
<v Speaker 1>either she's retarded or she was in on it.

1587
01:38:31.479 --> 01:38:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Or she's acting. I mean, look at this, because it

1588
01:38:37.640 --> 01:38:39.640
<v Speaker 2>made me think of it earlier when you first said it,

1589
01:38:40.479 --> 01:38:44.720
<v Speaker 2>and I talked about blowback earlier. If anybody hasn't seen

1590
01:38:44.800 --> 01:38:49.119
<v Speaker 2>the first season of True Detective, Oh, it's so good.

1591
01:38:49.880 --> 01:38:55.399
<v Speaker 2>These iconography type killings where they leave certain.

1592
01:38:55.119 --> 01:38:57.079
<v Speaker 1>Symbols twigs and berries.

1593
01:38:59.279 --> 01:39:02.399
<v Speaker 2>The reason that would have been covered up and not

1594
01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:05.720
<v Speaker 2>talked about and sensationalized like the rest of the Bundy

1595
01:39:05.760 --> 01:39:08.359
<v Speaker 2>stuff is because it was a bunch of people doing

1596
01:39:08.399 --> 01:39:13.399
<v Speaker 2>it boo, And I mean McGowan even alludes to in

1597
01:39:13.600 --> 01:39:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Programmed to Kill that a lot of the murders that

1598
01:39:17.079 --> 01:39:19.079
<v Speaker 2>they pinned on Bundy couldn't have been him, And then

1599
01:39:19.119 --> 01:39:21.079
<v Speaker 2>there was murders that he may have been involved in

1600
01:39:21.119 --> 01:39:22.720
<v Speaker 2>that weren't pinned on him. I mean, it just goes

1601
01:39:22.760 --> 01:39:27.319
<v Speaker 2>all over the place, but it does allude to like

1602
01:39:27.359 --> 01:39:30.840
<v Speaker 2>a satanic goal of some kind doing all this stuff

1603
01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:33.199
<v Speaker 2>that he may have been a part of or working

1604
01:39:33.239 --> 01:39:35.199
<v Speaker 2>in tandem with on different psyops.

1605
01:39:35.359 --> 01:39:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, he was political and he was Mormon, so he's

1606
01:39:38.560 --> 01:39:39.920
<v Speaker 1>got that going for him.

1607
01:39:40.119 --> 01:39:42.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you want to party, those political Mormons

1608
01:39:42.640 --> 01:39:43.720
<v Speaker 2>are the ones to hang out with.

1609
01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:50.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the ones who also liked to necrophile fucking dead person.

1610
01:39:51.199 --> 01:39:55.119
<v Speaker 1>But I mean to summon all up, I think like

1611
01:39:55.199 --> 01:39:59.560
<v Speaker 1>that we're getting a good picture of like the beginning

1612
01:39:59.640 --> 01:40:01.680
<v Speaker 1>of this serial killer with.

1613
01:40:01.560 --> 01:40:05.279
<v Speaker 2>This definitely, like you said, this was going on in

1614
01:40:05.319 --> 01:40:06.920
<v Speaker 2>a time where they didn't even have a name for

1615
01:40:07.000 --> 01:40:07.359
<v Speaker 2>it yet.

1616
01:40:07.640 --> 01:40:12.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But so if this is the first time you've

1617
01:40:12.399 --> 01:40:18.399
<v Speaker 1>heard Colby, congrats you've just leveled up in your conspiracy

1618
01:40:18.439 --> 01:40:22.399
<v Speaker 1>theory game. And with that being said, there is one

1619
01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:26.319
<v Speaker 1>very important vital piece of information I need you to learn,

1620
01:40:26.520 --> 01:40:30.239
<v Speaker 1>just as soon as humanly possible.

1621
01:40:37.439 --> 01:40:40.199
<v Speaker 2>People a strange When you're.

1622
01:40:40.079 --> 01:40:46.199
<v Speaker 3>A strange, faces look uglue when you're own lone women

1623
01:40:46.359 --> 01:40:48.840
<v Speaker 3>seeing what kid when your own.

1624
01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Low streets around.

1625
01:40:51.319 --> 01:41:02.319
<v Speaker 3>Even when you're down, when you're strange, when you strange, No,

1626
01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:08.600
<v Speaker 3>when we met as wrenn. When you stray, when you're strange,

1627
01:41:10.800 --> 01:41:19.000
<v Speaker 3>stray eat both stray when you're a stranger. Face is

1628
01:41:19.039 --> 01:41:21.640
<v Speaker 3>not done when you're all lone.

1629
01:41:22.479 --> 01:41:25.319
<v Speaker 1>When let's see why good ready?

1630
01:41:26.520 --> 01:41:31.840
<v Speaker 2>In Fun four three, you don't say two ruine.

1631
01:41:34.800 --> 01:41:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Fly? I like it? Actually? Do you think this is

1632
01:41:38.840 --> 01:41:43.680
<v Speaker 1>good between the both of us? Like this distance?

1633
01:41:44.079 --> 01:41:45.600
<v Speaker 2>I might just get closer to the talk.

1634
01:41:46.079 --> 01:41:48.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all the girls in.

1635
01:41:48.279 --> 01:41:55.159
<v Speaker 2>Your audience are pick Oh my god, hot cinnamon.

1636
01:41:58.479 --> 01:42:00.600
<v Speaker 1>That is gonna start burning if you don't wipe a

1637
01:42:00.680 --> 01:42:02.880
<v Speaker 1>dog all right, I.

1638
01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:07.279
<v Speaker 2>Sneak someday zoom. It's gonna cancel all of us and

1639
01:42:07.439 --> 01:42:08.960
<v Speaker 2>released unedited.

1640
01:42:08.520 --> 01:42:10.159
<v Speaker 1>Transcripts of us.

1641
01:42:10.439 --> 01:42:12.479
<v Speaker 2>It's saying disinformations.

1642
01:42:12.680 --> 01:42:21.439
<v Speaker 1>Fucked, It's ready home, I gonna pass. This is the

1643
01:42:21.439 --> 01:42:27.279
<v Speaker 1>one that the Zodiac Murder opens. The Zodiac movie opens with,

1644
01:42:27.359 --> 01:42:31.680
<v Speaker 1>but I don't remember how to say this guy's last name, nomje.

1645
01:42:34.720 --> 01:42:36.439
<v Speaker 1>I knew because they made a joke about it in

1646
01:42:36.479 --> 01:42:39.760
<v Speaker 1>the Zodiac that nobody could pronounce his last name and

1647
01:42:39.760 --> 01:42:46.760
<v Speaker 1>they kept calling him mgu and it's Mijou, Michael Mjou.

1648
01:42:47.479 --> 01:42:49.399
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how far are we going to get into

1649
01:42:50.039 --> 01:42:51.319
<v Speaker 2>the Manson murders in this.

1650
01:42:51.359 --> 01:42:54.159
<v Speaker 1>Episode as far as you want?

1651
01:42:54.479 --> 01:42:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, is there like an episode or coming up that's

1652
01:42:56.720 --> 01:42:58.359
<v Speaker 2>gonna be specifically.

1653
01:42:57.720 --> 01:43:04.279
<v Speaker 1>About I'm going to really I'm gonna so I think

1654
01:43:04.319 --> 01:43:10.600
<v Speaker 1>we should talk about it like in this one or later.

1655
01:43:12.159 --> 01:43:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, why am I blanking? I am too?

1656
01:43:18.119 --> 01:43:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Whereon bron Warner von Broun.

1657
01:43:22.319 --> 01:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>What's his name that wrote did Ilter my Pulter Skelter Bulgosi?

1658
01:43:31.720 --> 01:43:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I think it's I always said Bulgosi.

1659
01:43:39.119 --> 01:43:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm dead. I'm look it up, look up, Skelter'll start

1660
01:43:45.039 --> 01:43:45.720
<v Speaker 2>that sentence over?

1661
01:43:48.680 --> 01:43:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Are you having some bays? I changed my my HST team.

1662
01:43:57.279 --> 01:44:15.680
<v Speaker 2>It was Buglios Vincent. Your name was Orlando. I'm Brad