1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,280
Speaker 1: And Washington, a bunch of dipshits have gathered to rededicate

2
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:10,480
themselves to a two hundred and fifty year experiment. Well,

3
00:00:10,919 --> 00:00:14,199
they call it reddicating it to God, you know, but

4
00:00:14,519 --> 00:00:18,640
we've never been dedicated to God. The original Constitution counted

5
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,719
enslaved people as three fifths of a person. It protected

6
00:00:22,719 --> 00:00:25,239
the slave trade for two decades while tolerating it for

7
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,960
an additional eighty years. It returned escaped human beings to bondage.

8
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,200
It granted women no vote and no equal standing. Every

9
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,840
one of those clauses sits comfortably beside a Bible that

10
00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:42,640
orders slaves to obey their masters, permits buying them from

11
00:00:42,679 --> 00:00:46,920
neighboring nations, and tells wives to submit in women to

12
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,880
be silent. Is that what they mean by rededicating Alabama

13
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:57,000
senators want to revoke black Americans black American citizenship by

14
00:00:57,039 --> 00:01:00,320
repealing the fourteenth Amendment, and others are actively seeking to

15
00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:03,799
reverse women's suffrage while attempting to put them back in

16
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,079
the kitchen. So maybe that's what they mean by rededicating

17
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:13,040
to God. The Constitution is antithetical to every supposed progressive

18
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,879
ideal Christians hold today. Every step towards justice came by

19
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,239
amending that document away from most of those original values.

20
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,000
The thirteenth, fourteenth, and nineteenth Amendments are in direct opposition

21
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,840
to Biblical ethics and morality. The Constitution itself names no God,

22
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,560
no Bible, and no Christ. Article six bars religious tests

23
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,959
for office, while the God of the Bible kills entire

24
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,599
cities for worshiping anything else. The First Amendment protects worship

25
00:01:43,719 --> 00:01:47,840
of any God, all gods, or no Gods, breaking the

26
00:01:47,959 --> 00:01:52,159
very first Commandment and shielding speech the Bible calls blasphemy.

27
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,319
In seventeen ninety seven, the Senate unanimously declared that government

28
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,680
is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

29
00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:04,560
Commandments are pressed into classrooms and service of a Christian nation,

30
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,919
the founders refuse to build, and the Amendments dismantled piece

31
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,039
by piece. If you disagree with this sentiment, then I

32
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,039
urge you to call in now because the show is

33
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:22,879
starting right now.

34
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,159
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody. Today is May seventeen, twenty twenty six. We

35
00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:30,800
want to welcome you all to the last leg of

36
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,439
our second annual We are here twenty four hour live

37
00:02:33,479 --> 00:02:36,479
stream and fundraiser. Some of you might notice that we're

38
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,400
streaming in multilocations. If you're watching this on my channels,

39
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,719
you can use the QR code on the screen or

40
00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:46,759
a link in the description of the video to donate

41
00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:50,599
towards the fundraiser. We are inching closer and closer to

42
00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:52,479
our goal, where I think we're at a little over

43
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,919
twelve thousand now, but we got a long way to

44
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:55,479
meet the goal.

45
00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:56,879
Speaker 3: So if in fact, do.

46
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,840
Speaker 2: You have anything you can use to help the ACA,

47
00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,280
we would love anything. Five dollars, ten dollars, two dollars.

48
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,680
No one ever has to be a hero. The way

49
00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:09,240
these fundraisers work is that everybody pitches in, and we

50
00:03:09,319 --> 00:03:11,479
have a lot of people that watch the channel, and

51
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,719
so a lot of people doing a little accomplishes a

52
00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:18,840
lot of good. Nevertheless, our goal, as far as I'm aware,

53
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,520
is twenty five thousand dollars, and we're going strong. We

54
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,199
have plenty of time to reach it, but we're going

55
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,759
to need your help to do it. If you can,

56
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,919
you can also just type in the link in the

57
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,919
browser tiny dot CC we are here twenty twenty six.

58
00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:33,879
If in fact you don't want to click on the

59
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,080
link in the description, and if you don't donate, my

60
00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,240
baby bird's going to keep biting my ears, so it's

61
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,199
really important. Also, thank you for joining us.

62
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it.

63
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,639
Speaker 2: Goddess Engineer will be back if if not, you'll at

64
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,719
least be able to hear his voice. The Atheist Experience

65
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,639
is a product of the Atheist Community of Austin, a

66
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,080
five h one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the

67
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,879
promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and separation of

68
00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:03,879
religion and government. This means you can give us a

69
00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:07,199
tax free domation as long as you want, as many

70
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,479
as you want. In fact, I know that is only

71
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,840
going to a good cause, but that it also helps

72
00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:15,159
you too. We are trying, actually I think we're We're

73
00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:20,600
like quadruple sextuple at streaming tonight, So a big shout

74
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,959
out to everybody watching on all the different channels. I

75
00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:25,399
don't believe we're gonna be on TikTok tonight, but we

76
00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:28,639
do appreciate you being here, and we're gonna be having

77
00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:32,120
some callers call in soon. In fact, if you want

78
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,680
to call in, the number is five to one to

79
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,839
two nine nine two four to two, and you can

80
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,040
neither see nor hear at the moment, but Kelly is

81
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,360
joining us as well.

82
00:04:42,879 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 3: Do we know if do you have John's okay, did

83
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:46,160
the lord take on?

84
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm good.

85
00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:49,720
Speaker 2: Can you hear me, Kelly? If you can lose your

86
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,319
lips while John's talking, we can.

87
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, my browser crashed as soon as I started talking.

88
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,439
I don't know. I figure on probably just too epic

89
00:05:01,519 --> 00:05:02,160
for the video.

90
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 2: This is the best argument against fine tuning, that a

91
00:05:06,319 --> 00:05:08,920
creator would put the windpipe and the food and drink

92
00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:12,959
pipe literally right next to each other. We'll constantly end

93
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,360
people's lives over and over again for millenniums. Here we

94
00:05:17,399 --> 00:05:21,199
got there, he is, Hey, I'm back, all right, welcome back, hey,

95
00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:25,240
while we're waiting for some opposition to load up. By

96
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,279
the way, this is a fundraiser, but we are going

97
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,839
to be taking phone calls from opposition, and if you

98
00:05:31,519 --> 00:05:33,680
if you're an atheist, remember we do take atheist phone

99
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,120
calls as well or agnostic phone calls. We just prioritize

100
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,680
the theist phone calls first, because I think that's really

101
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,399
where you know, most of the fans get the benefit

102
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,399
of the dialogue.

103
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,879
Speaker 3: Nevertheless, John, you've been doing some.

104
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 2: Work and you've got some papers that you're ready to

105
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,839
submit to some of the organizations like the sbl I

106
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,839
assume and others. Tell us tell the audience about what

107
00:05:57,879 --> 00:05:58,360
you're working on.

108
00:05:58,759 --> 00:06:02,519
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yeah cool. So here in the past

109
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,279
few weeks I kind of got kind of an engineering

110
00:06:06,439 --> 00:06:11,199
hair up my butt and decided to look into stylometric

111
00:06:11,319 --> 00:06:17,199
analysis of New Testament texts to primarily look at one question,

112
00:06:17,319 --> 00:06:21,040
but I've also probed into multiple other different questions that

113
00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:24,199
are kind of like you know, in the field right now,

114
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,199
Like I've been working really hard to develop a new

115
00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:33,800
algorithm to discern like pauline imitators from authentic pauline, because

116
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,079
there's this current discussion in the scholarship of whether or

117
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,000
not Phi Lehman is actually authentic pauline. And the big

118
00:06:41,079 --> 00:06:44,800
problem with that in like analyzing it stylometrically, is that

119
00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:48,160
it's got a low word count. It's like three hundred

120
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:53,040
and thirty four words. And for the current tools, the

121
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,480
industry standard tools you need like to get good, clean results,

122
00:06:57,519 --> 00:07:00,759
you need about twenty five hundred words and get some

123
00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:05,639
you know, good results at lower thresholds, like about fifteen

124
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,319
hundred words, but you know, beyond that, it's going to

125
00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:11,560
be more noise than it is any kind of signal

126
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,160
that we can detect. So what I've done is I've

127
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:22,800
actually developed a Bayesian model that uses Bayesian predictive metrics

128
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,160
in order to predict whether or not a certain piece

129
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,399
of text is the same as you know, a source

130
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,199
piece of text. And so I've had really good results

131
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,600
so far in developing it, and it tests along about

132
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,040
I think currently I'm up to about eight different like

133
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,879
dimensions that I'm testing the text on and developing a

134
00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:50,759
posterior likelihood for, and it so far, you know, it's

135
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,279
doing really good, and it's actually lowered the floor the

136
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,480
minimum amounts of words that you need to analyze to

137
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,680
about two hundred words, which puts it firmly in the

138
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,519
realm of you know, detecting Phi Lehman as well as

139
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,279
other texts. And it's actually in using these stock like

140
00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:14,639
all all of the standard tools. I've ranted against the pastorals,

141
00:08:15,079 --> 00:08:17,519
and it's definitely I know that currently right now, the

142
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,600
consensus follows along with bart Erman that says that you know,

143
00:08:21,639 --> 00:08:24,439
the pastorals are all written by one hand, but it's

144
00:08:24,439 --> 00:08:30,240
definitely not Paul. But stylometrically speaking, the first and second

145
00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:34,320
Timothy group together. But then Titus is different in some

146
00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:37,759
kind of way, and I'm not exactly sure in what

147
00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:42,840
way is it different, but it is definitely being detected differently.

148
00:08:42,879 --> 00:08:45,759
And I'm not just just to let people know I'm

149
00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:49,919
not just spot checking like dendograms, which are like trees

150
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,240
that group text together. I'm not doing that. I'm actually

151
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,399
working off of the raw data on this and actually

152
00:08:55,399 --> 00:08:59,559
being able to draw real conclusions and detect real signal.

153
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,559
And so that's kind of what I've been looking at.

154
00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:05,279
And I'm planning. I've got like a list of about

155
00:09:05,399 --> 00:09:10,000
twelve different papers that I can write, and so I'm

156
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:13,320
just going to start whittling down the list and start

157
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,399
writing it. Writing that off there. My first paper that

158
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,840
I plan on writing and submitting to a journal is

159
00:09:18,919 --> 00:09:25,720
going to be on on determining whether Marcian originated the

160
00:09:25,759 --> 00:09:28,480
New Testament in the second century as opposed to the

161
00:09:28,519 --> 00:09:33,720
traditional view, and my analysis says that he did not.

162
00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:37,480
In fact, I can actually show directionally that it was

163
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:42,679
actually Marcian that redacted a prior the version of Luke,

164
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,360
the core of Luke. So that's really nerdy Bible shit

165
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,159
there mixed with some engineering shit. So I'm going to

166
00:09:49,399 --> 00:09:52,480
let justin, you know, be more interesting.

167
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 2: It thinks. No, it's very interesting to me. Remember, I'm

168
00:09:56,399 --> 00:09:59,240
a bubble nerd from way back, so I'm I'm always

169
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,279
excited to hear by new developments in new ways. Obviously,

170
00:10:02,279 --> 00:10:04,879
you know, you and I both are background in engineering,

171
00:10:04,919 --> 00:10:06,799
so I love to hear when we actually be able

172
00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:10,039
to mix the sciences in and like figure stuff out

173
00:10:10,159 --> 00:10:12,759
using hard science rather than I don't know. There's a

174
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,399
church father who said something once, did manuscript variants play

175
00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:17,320
a role in the end of this?

176
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,679
Speaker 1: I didn't use variants. What I did was I pulled

177
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:26,159
from the current, like scholarly critical audition. Yeah, critical editions

178
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,799
like for the Greek I did, I believe NA twenty

179
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,559
eight as well as a couple of other versions. And

180
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,399
for the I've got the Hebrew, and I can't remember

181
00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:37,279
what version the Hebrew is because I haven't done a

182
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,320
lot of analysis like on the either the Hebrew Bible

183
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,720
or the septuagen I've done a little bit, but not much.

184
00:10:44,759 --> 00:10:49,120
The Septuagent I also pulled whatever the scholarly edition of

185
00:10:49,159 --> 00:10:49,600
that is.

186
00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 2: It'd be interesting to determine. Sorry for the you know,

187
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,639
now we're get deep into some fun stuff. I'd be

188
00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,960
interesting to determine on the Greek septuagen if you could

189
00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:03,559
identify authors it. I mean, even if they're nameless. And

190
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,399
they've done this with the Dead Sea Scrolls, where they've

191
00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:10,000
actually been able to do styllometric analysis prior to computerized DILO.

192
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,279
They used you know, hand hand masked stylo analysis to

193
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,039
determine that there are a couple quite a few documents

194
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,720
that were actually seemed to be authored by a single

195
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,120
individual or another individual. But I suspect we could do

196
00:11:25,159 --> 00:11:27,879
that with a septuagen at least we come close to

197
00:11:27,919 --> 00:11:28,919
getting something like that.

198
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 3: I think be really interesting.

199
00:11:30,159 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 2: Say, hey, look, actually the reason why the translation of

200
00:11:32,919 --> 00:11:36,200
Isaiah is so errand is also the reason why the

201
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,000
translation say of Job is so errant, right because oh,

202
00:11:40,039 --> 00:11:41,720
well the same guy was translating it, right.

203
00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,799
Speaker 1: No, yeah, and you could definitely do that. I'm I'm

204
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,039
also working on a good method for determining directionality, like

205
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,840
as far as like, did did source A use source

206
00:11:55,919 --> 00:11:59,000
B or did source B you source A like in

207
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,320
their construction? And so I'm trying to figure out a

208
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,759
good method for making that determination. But that's I've kind

209
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:07,399
of only just blunked into.

210
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,559
Speaker 2: That right now exciting. Do you think maybe, and listen,

211
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,679
this is this is just me saying words. Do you

212
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:18,240
think maybe when rock and City reason rules around, you

213
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,080
might maybe have a workshop on something like this I'd attend.

214
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I am running you know, I'm speaking

215
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:32,399
multiple times and running one workshop this year on something

216
00:12:32,759 --> 00:12:36,200
adjacent to it. Just you know, about being you know,

217
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,519
being able to educate yourself in a certain area because

218
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,639
like I definitely didn't have I don't have stylometric analysis

219
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,440
like in my educational background, but you know, I'm very

220
00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:51,000
adept at software engineering, so like I could figure it out,

221
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,200
and it just took a little bit of math, math

222
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,240
refresher on statistics and everything like that in order to

223
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,120
really kind of get up to speed on it. So,

224
00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:04,320
you know, I think that, you know, people needing to

225
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,440
educate themselves. I find that a lot of atheists and

226
00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:10,759
uh just non religious people in general find themselves lacking

227
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,039
in the in the realm of education whenever they actually

228
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,480
leave the religion, and that that, you know, sometimes can

229
00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:20,639
cause them to be very angry about it, like why

230
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:23,679
why was I robbed of an education? Young? In in

231
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,600
my life? And everything and you know, they have to

232
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,759
then figure out their way around you know, the information.

233
00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:33,559
And uh, I'm gonna be talking about that, and I've

234
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,799
got a whole bunch of other other talks this year

235
00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:38,720
that I'm doing, so I'll definitely think about that, and

236
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,919
definitely we'll put it on in the in the queue

237
00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:42,879
there for developing something like that.

238
00:13:44,039 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 2: It's mostly gonna be those like the like the hyper

239
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,840
nerds like myself that would be interested in I don't

240
00:13:49,879 --> 00:13:53,279
know how many people would be there, but if not,

241
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,960
eventually you and I are going to connect on it

242
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,600
so I can get my rig set up to do

243
00:13:56,799 --> 00:13:59,399
some of the same work. Because there's so many cool

244
00:13:59,399 --> 00:14:02,639
applications for this, like it doesn't I mean, what we're

245
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,039
using it for right now doesn't have to be the limit.

246
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,759
I mean, there's so much you can use it for.

247
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,559
I'd love to use it to see if I can

248
00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:15,799
determine even some sources in the historical literature. So, for example,

249
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,000
when one historian quotes another historian and that that quote

250
00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:22,840
doesn't exist right, if it's a long enough quote, can

251
00:14:22,879 --> 00:14:25,480
we determine if it was quoted accurately, or if there's

252
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:27,759
a bunch of words in there that who knows, maybe

253
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,679
never got used by this author ever.

254
00:14:30,159 --> 00:14:35,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know another thing that I'm trying to Sorry,

255
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,080
I don't have the call list up yet, so you

256
00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:37,799
just let me know if we.

257
00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 2: Don't, well, we're waiting on some callers. We'll say it again.

258
00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:42,759
The numbers on the screen five one two nine nine

259
00:14:42,879 --> 00:14:45,919
one nine two four two. You can call in with

260
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,879
the web caller too at tiny dot cc forge slash

261
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,440
call tw we'd love to talk to you. If you're

262
00:14:53,559 --> 00:14:56,360
an atheist, will bring you in or an agnostic will

263
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,320
bring in. But if if you're a believer, believe, will

264
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,080
get priorities. So we're it's not strictly like my channels.

265
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,320
I almost exclusively do debates unless it's a Q and A,

266
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:10,240
but we do take calls from from non believers as

267
00:15:10,279 --> 00:15:11,080
well on this channel.

268
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:12,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

269
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:13,559
Speaker 2: Uh.

270
00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:17,039
Speaker 1: And there is this one interesting case, which have you

271
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,399
heard of. I forget his first name, but his last

272
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,000
name's at Will. He's got this yeah, yeah, just if

273
00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:28,159
that will. He's got the Roman Christ or the uh,

274
00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:33,320
the idea that like Flavious jose M Yeah, yeah, Roman

275
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:37,879
invented and so the no, no, not at all. But

276
00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:42,840
but one interesting problem in that is cross uh cross

277
00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:48,120
ancient language detection, like determining whether or not they like

278
00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:52,120
the a Latin a person you know, typically writing in

279
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,200
Latin is trying to imitate Greek and then also the

280
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,519
other way around. And so I've also got it in

281
00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:00,840
my pending list to write up a method for making

282
00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:02,039
that distinction as well.

283
00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, I'd love to see that. I do remember

284
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,200
Joseph Atwell's work, of all the mythesist positions, I thought

285
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:12,600
that one seemed the silliest.

286
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 3: And it wasn't that the position itself was ridiculous.

287
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 2: It was that inside of the all of the claims

288
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,120
that were made, I kept finding them, tying them back

289
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,600
to things that were historically inaccurate. And I'm like, oh,

290
00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:28,720
this guy doesn't he's not a professional. He obviously doesn't

291
00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:32,279
know what he's talking about. I specialized in the Old Testament,

292
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,279
but obviously in seminary we had to study the Mediterranean

293
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,840
world in the New Testament as well. But like, I

294
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,879
shouldn't be able to find clear problems in somebody's work

295
00:16:40,919 --> 00:16:45,039
if if they're a real scholar in this area, right, Yeah.

296
00:16:44,879 --> 00:16:48,559
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that everybody pegs at Will with

297
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,360
immediately because I found a lot of his claims being

298
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,240
unjustified and sort of specious, just sort of you know, saying, oh, well,

299
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,000
this makes sense to me. It's like, okay, yeah, sure,

300
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,120
if you're writing a Dan Brown novel, then that makes

301
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:06,920
total sense. But you know, in reality where everybody else lives,

302
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,839
it's not exactly plausible.

303
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:13,039
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I agree, I agree, But that is pretty exciting.

304
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,000
I do remember when I was in school, there was

305
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,359
some debate over the Pauline letters, and you know, even

306
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,200
Christian scholars are ready to admit that some of the

307
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,480
Pauline corpus isn't actually Pauline. I'm shocked that the amount

308
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,799
of Christians who don't want to accept it. Like if

309
00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:34,680
all the Christian scholars are in kind of a consensus

310
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,720
about it, I don't know why Christians are so unwilling

311
00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:41,599
to accept it. And like what my professors would have

312
00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:43,680
said is something like, well, listen, even though it didn't

313
00:17:43,759 --> 00:17:47,480
come from paul it was still valuable to the church.

314
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,119
And because it was valuable to the Church, that means

315
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,799
it's still you know, inspired by the Holy Spirit. The

316
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:57,240
Holy Spirit still used it to esteem and to teach

317
00:17:57,279 --> 00:17:59,599
and to reprove the Church and so it should be

318
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,839
Kennon anyways.

319
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,559
Speaker 3: But that does kind of, you know, bring up some.

320
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 2: Word questions, which is, does lying about authorship matter when

321
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,519
we're talking about like what is God's word and God

322
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:13,519
can't lie? Like, is there something in there that we

323
00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:17,400
should find suspicious? You're just accepting works that you clearly

324
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,519
know are fraudulent.

325
00:18:20,319 --> 00:18:22,319
Speaker 1: Well, I think that if you were to go and

326
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:28,480
look at I believe it's justin Martyr. I want to

327
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,920
say that it's justin Martyr. He actually elaborates on why

328
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,480
he became Christian or what convinced him about the Gospels,

329
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,200
and it was literally nothing but the like the theological

330
00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:46,920
truth that they like discussed. And so I think that

331
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,599
they probably didn't really care about any kind of like

332
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,440
true historical reliability, right. I think that what they cared

333
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,440
about is whether or not it theologically served their needs

334
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,680
or if it theologically sounded good for them. And I

335
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,759
think that if it if it agreed with what they

336
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:06,759
were wanting or or maybe it agreed with their with

337
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:09,079
their preconceived notion, then I think that they were just

338
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,799
ready to accept it at face value.

339
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be fair, like if you're in the

340
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,680
ancient world, like, what tools do you have, like the

341
00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:20,720
common person, what tools do you have in your tool

342
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:24,279
belt to say that he didn't write it? It seems like,

343
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:27,000
but once you get to that point, you have to wonder, like, okay,

344
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,440
well what was God? Because people will say, well, God

345
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,200
inspired the canon? Okay, but if God inspired the cannon,

346
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,240
wouldn't he inspire it so that we knew who the

347
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,680
correct authors were that we could attribute it.

348
00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:39,599
Speaker 3: Just it's such a weird you have to do a.

349
00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 2: Lot of pretzels to get around the forging of Paul's letters.

350
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I honestly think that that these

351
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,839
these uh well sorry, that's not what I was wanting

352
00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:54,079
to say. What I want to say is I think

353
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:55,759
that it really kind of goes back to the whole

354
00:19:56,039 --> 00:20:00,440
one Corinthians fifteen, like five hundred witnesses, Right, it's an

355
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:04,759
unfalsifiable claim that you can't actually go especially in the

356
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:08,079
ancient world, you can't actually go and verify so like

357
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,960
these even in the second century, Like, how are you

358
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,400
supposed to verify that these things are actually written by

359
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,039
the persons that they're supposedly written by? You know, I mean,

360
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,000
I just don't think that they had the tools.

361
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 2: I don't think they did, and it's not their fault,

362
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,000
but it is the Holy Spirit's fault if the Holy

363
00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:23,759
Spirit existed.

364
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,519
Speaker 3: Yep, neverus. We do have a Coleraine Q.

365
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 2: It looks like as Aaron from Texas wants to talk

366
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:34,839
about John fifteen, I assume we are referring to the

367
00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:36,319
Gospel of John Silt's bring.

368
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 3: An Aaron, Hey, welcome and aeron your xp with John

369
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:39,279
and Justin.

370
00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:39,799
Speaker 2: How you doing?

371
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:40,400
Speaker 3: Hi?

372
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,559
Speaker 4: John, I justin, I'm good.

373
00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

374
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 4: I wanted to call in and just talk about something

375
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,640
that I don't normally hear about from from my sollow

376
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,839
non believers. I grew up in the Church Christ, and

377
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,759
something that I'm really interested in is going back on

378
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:57,960
the theology that I grew up with and re reexamining

379
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,720
the things that I believed about my self through what

380
00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:05,319
I believed about God. And I learned that it's part

381
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,920
of my healing and my self care. Is just identifying

382
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:13,279
what I gave away and and I want to if

383
00:21:13,279 --> 00:21:16,519
it's okay, if you guys are are willing, because I

384
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:18,920
certainly believe in asking for consent these days now that

385
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,079
I understand that is a value and a virtue could

386
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,799
we look at John fifteen together? Yeah, I'm what I'm

387
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:30,559
interested in is is digging in on how how has God?

388
00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:34,640
How is Jesus? How do we know that Jesus wants

389
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,680
to encourage you? How does he give encouragement to his followers?

390
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:39,880
What does he think of his followers? When you get

391
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,839
encouragement from somebody, it's always how about this. I'm gonna

392
00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:49,319
speak for myself. When someone encourages me, it's the best kind.

393
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,799
Is when they're They're trying to reaffirm that I'm I'm

394
00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:56,359
capable and I should lean on my confidence that I've

395
00:21:56,799 --> 00:21:59,039
I've been through a lot. I you know, like we've all.

396
00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:00,960
We all know when somebody he is building this up

397
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,640
and making us feel good about ourselves. And I don't

398
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,559
think there's any there's nothing that I can find in

399
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:08,519
the Bible that indicates that God wants you to feel

400
00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:11,440
good about yourself. And so that's why I want us

401
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,799
to read John fifteen. I hate to feel like I'm

402
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:17,519
rambling and running here, but I'm welcome to read it

403
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:19,160
unless somebody would like to read it for me.

404
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 1: But I mean is there'll go ahead, I'll go ahead

405
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,480
and take it.

406
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 4: But I feel like I talked too long.

407
00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, is there a specific verse you're wanting to

408
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:29,799
because I mean it is like yeah.

409
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here, I'll just let it rip and

410
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,519
then I would love to hear y'alls thoughts on this.

411
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:38,759
To me, this reads as probably the least encouraging thing

412
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:43,039
that somebody could could say to another person. John fifteen

413
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,079
starts out that I am the true vine, and my

414
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,119
father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in

415
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,200
me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does

416
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:55,400
not bear fruit he prunes. So if you're not it's

417
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,720
if you're not bearing fruit and useful, you can get

418
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,839
cut off and thrown away. But if you are bearing

419
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,920
good news, you will be pruned on so that you

420
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,599
are more fruitful. You are already clean because of the

421
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:08,559
word I have spoken to you. Remain in me as

422
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:11,799
I remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself.

423
00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:14,559
You must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear

424
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:17,039
fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine

425
00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:19,200
and you are the branches. If you remain in me

426
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,279
and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart

427
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,759
from me, you can do nothing. This does not sound

428
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,839
like any person in my life that has ever spoken

429
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,960
to me with effect. This is not someone who is

430
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,920
talking to you trying to help you understand your own

431
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,319
your own words. This is not someone telling you should

432
00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:38,200
accept yourself for yourself. You can accept yourself for me.

433
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:42,720
That's not love. Yeah, I mean picking with me because

434
00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:45,200
it's just as sicking with me, because people that love

435
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:47,640
me don't act like this. And that's it.

436
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: I remember that.

437
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: We're all I think that we're all in agreement here

438
00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:53,680
that the God of the Bible is really shit, and

439
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,119
that doesn't change for the New Testament. I mean, Jesus

440
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,440
has a has a few fluffy things that he says

441
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,240
that people can like twist into being good. But I mean,

442
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:07,519
I think on the whole, like other than a cherry

443
00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:10,359
pick sort of version of it, I think that you know,

444
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,160
the message is, you know, usually pretty bad, like as

445
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,160
far as you know, as far as the believer, because

446
00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:18,759
the entire point at least. Maybe I'm wrong, but I

447
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:21,960
feel like one of the tactics employed by not only

448
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,960
the New Testament but also the Old Testament is to

449
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,480
make you feel like shit so that you feel like

450
00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:29,279
you need a savior. And I think that the fact

451
00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:31,200
that it makes you feel like shit. It makes you

452
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,680
feel guilty, that compels you to like believe based out

453
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,680
of like guilt or something like that. It makes you

454
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,799
feel like, oh, I'm such a shitty fucking person. I

455
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,640
need you know, I need a savior in my life

456
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,160
to you know, take on my sins and all this.

457
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:53,839
It basically persuades you through narrative that you need Jesus

458
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,880
as if you know, he's some kind of like drug dealer.

459
00:24:57,079 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree, justin did you have yeah, please

460
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:01,480
trust them?

461
00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I don't think that Jesus believes that humans

462
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,720
are innately like smart or valuable or should believe in themselves.

463
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:13,799
He belittles them at every turn, and then he says

464
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,799
that he specifically needs you to love him, even over

465
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:19,039
your family members and back.

466
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:22,079
Speaker 3: When the man with the dead father said, Hey, I'd

467
00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:22,440
like to go.

468
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 2: Back to bury my father before I follow you, he says,

469
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,680
let the dead bear the dead.

470
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 3: So this is not a person who really cares about.

471
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,799
Speaker 2: Your value as a human. The value that you have

472
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,559
in the cult of Jesus is to be a slave

473
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,240
your The goal of this religion is to make you

474
00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:41,079
a slave to the leader. That's why it's such a

475
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:41,759
strong cult.

476
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. To me, it all goes back to the real

477
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:56,440
offense was disobedience of any kind. And you know, for

478
00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:59,640
a God who made something to exist outside of himself,

479
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,640
he got very angry, very quickly for it to not

480
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,920
look like him all of a sudden.

481
00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:08,839
Speaker 5: I just I think that if if you.

482
00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 4: Were a creator of anything, you could find a better

483
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:14,039
if you were, especially if you're the creator of sentient things,

484
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,759
you could find better reaction than to bring up death.

485
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:21,079
You know, like, if the author of life could have

486
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,119
could have really structured things the way he wanted it to,

487
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,640
I'm sure it could have gone a little better. And

488
00:26:27,319 --> 00:26:31,000
and then instead of it being why are we constantly

489
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,240
told that the healthiest relationship in our life should function

490
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,279
like the most toxic ones that we find? It's just right, Yeah,

491
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,240
over and over again, I'm seeing that. But thank you

492
00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:41,240
so much for taking that.

493
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: If you look at like the list of what makes

494
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,720
a cult a cult, almost all of it applies directly

495
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,160
to Christianity. In fact, I remember when I was in seminary,

496
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,799
I took some classes on cults, and they have like

497
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,039
how to know if you are in a cult? How

498
00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:57,359
do you know if a friend is in a cult.

499
00:26:58,599 --> 00:27:01,519
Over and over again, Christianity hit every mark. So it

500
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:04,319
just seems to be that this religion is definitely not

501
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,119
about you. It's about what can you do for Jesus,

502
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,119
And if you can't do nothing for Jesus, he don't

503
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,759
care about you. In fact, in Luke nineteen he talks

504
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:14,720
about the stewards right that we're given the money. It's

505
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,839
a metaphor about what people are doing while he's gone. Right,

506
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,920
the goal is to get people to be productive and

507
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:25,880
produce things for the kingdom until he returns, and those

508
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,839
who don't, those who believe in him and care about

509
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,839
him but are cautious, still get slaughtered. At the end

510
00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:36,920
of the parable, he says, when the king returns, he'll say,

511
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,200
bring them before me and slaughter them in my presence,

512
00:27:39,519 --> 00:27:42,519
And in Revelation fourteen that's what happens. So this is

513
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:44,720
not a person that cares about you intrinsically. This is

514
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,319
a person that cares about what you can do.

515
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 4: For it, right, And this is made further by the

516
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,759
fact that when he continues on apart from me, you

517
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:54,920
can do nothing. If you do not remain in me,

518
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,119
you are like a branch that's thrown away. In Withers,

519
00:27:57,319 --> 00:27:59,599
such branches are picked up, thrown to the fire and burned.

520
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,240
But if you remaining me in my words, in you

521
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:05,519
ask whatever you wish, it'll be done for you. So this,

522
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:08,039
this is to my father's glory that you bear much

523
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,799
fruit showing yourself to be my disciples. It just sounds

524
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:17,680
so insidious now that but my orientation to life is

525
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,680
now much more around. Uh. I started with mindfulness meditation,

526
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,160
and I feel like I found my way to self

527
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,680
acceptance through it, just accepting myself without any any I

528
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,319
don't like saying that I'm worthy because I don't like

529
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,839
using the terms of scale, you know. I think acceptance

530
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,839
is just a default position for any person in a

531
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,880
moment that they find themselves. And even if you find

532
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,000
yourself to be to have painous ship, anyone that cares

533
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:44,720
about you is not going to be telling you to

534
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,799
look to them first. They're going to tell you to

535
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:50,519
take care of yourself first, and yeah, love yourself first.

536
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:53,039
Everyone who loves you will agree, And that's that's kind

537
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:57,359
of what I think. Well, definitely, I love this marathon

538
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:00,160
and it's it's been so fun. It's been so good

539
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,839
to see everybody, and it's just so encouraging to know

540
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,839
that that we've got we've got friends who share our

541
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,440
values and that we can do work together that's productive

542
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,640
and create community. And that's and I'm just so excited

543
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,000
about that across across the world that we're talking about.

544
00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

545
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,519
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for calling in here. Best luck to your friend.

546
00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 4: Thank you, guys, all right, have a good rest strain.

547
00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:23,119
Speaker 3: We got some donations during that call.

548
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,799
Speaker 2: Friends. I'm going to update our ticker. I think there's

549
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:29,720
a little bit more on the on the donation amount

550
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,799
than what shows on the ZEFI website. I'm at I'm

551
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:37,680
looking at eleven three five. What's our official number, Greg.

552
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure what the actual number is,

553
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:41,839
but you know, I feel like we need to we

554
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,039
need to pump those numbers up. We need to, you know,

555
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,839
see those donations come in. I mean, Acham is standing

556
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,119
there on Justin's shoulders, putting on a great show for y'all.

557
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,519
I think that you know, five five dollars donations in

558
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:58,359
the chat there for for akham on on for just

559
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,759
being awesome over there. I mean he's not looking at

560
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:02,720
us right now, but I mean he's showing the backside

561
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,079
of him.

562
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:06,359
Speaker 2: He's he's literally threatening my ear as we speak, I

563
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,480
can hear him getting ready to bite part of it off.

564
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,759
I might have to get like a special earring to

565
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:16,880
cover up the bite marks. The XP. For those who

566
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,359
haven't been around, XP has been around for a long time,

567
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,000
I think almost thirty years. And I think it has

568
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:24,799
been thirty years now somewhere around there. And XP I

569
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:28,039
don't know, but John was like vital for me in

570
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:32,279
my deconstruction and learning more about atheism. Oh and I

571
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:34,640
think I think a comes out. He said, not enough friends,

572
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,039
but we'll bring welcome back later. Nevertheless, friends, let's keep

573
00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:41,920
XP rolling and going for another year so that we

574
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,799
can produce good content. We have a lot of volunteers

575
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,960
that help out with the ACA. None of the hosts

576
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,599
get paid. We all volunteer, and so everyone here is

577
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,680
nearly everybody at the ACA is a volunteer and it's

578
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:58,920
helping out. But one of the reasons why ACA works

579
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:02,519
is because we all also have generous donors and volunteers

580
00:31:02,519 --> 00:31:04,559
helping to make the shows possible.

581
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: So we really appreciate everybody.

582
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: The link is on the screen in the bottom right

583
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200
hand corner. There's QR code and the link is tiny

584
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,839
dot cc forward slash. We are here twenty twenty six

585
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,559
and it would be fantastic to get close to reaching

586
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:21,640
our goal for the day. That being said, I'm going

587
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,559
to bring in Keith from the call Q. Keith is

588
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:28,079
calling from Austin, Texas. In fact, Austin, Texas, the home

589
00:31:28,119 --> 00:31:31,519
of the ACA. Wants to ask approximately how many times

590
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,440
has the Bible been edited or revised?

591
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: So this should be a fun question.

592
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:39,359
Speaker 2: Keith, welcome to XP. You're on with John and Justin.

593
00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:40,640
How are you. I'm great.

594
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 6: How's it going today?

595
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,759
Speaker 2: Doing well? Thank you? All right?

596
00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:47,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was looking back and I know Jesus didn't

597
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:50,720
speak English, so oh jeezus, the helicopter coming over. So

598
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:54,319
I was wondering how many times has it been translated

599
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,319
just between languages? I know it started off, I guess

600
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:59,720
in Hebrew or Aramaic, then Greek and Latin, and finally

601
00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:03,720
maybe or Italian. I'm not sure, just some some that's

602
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:04,519
both questions.

603
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: Really, it's kind of been a process. So the Hebrew

604
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:12,240
Bible obviously started in Hebrew. It seems that the earliest

605
00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:16,160
portions were in Palo Hebrew, but we don't know exactly

606
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,000
at what point in the history of paloi Hebrew they

607
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,599
were written in what's actually been preserved and what's been

608
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,279
backwards translated. So, for example, we've got like Palo Hebrew

609
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:30,480
texts that contains words from the Arameic period, so we're like, okay,

610
00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:34,680
well that was backwards translated into Palo Hebrew, right, So

611
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,279
it's hard to tell sometimes just by saying, oh, this

612
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,039
language was developed at this time period, we also have

613
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:43,039
to look at, oh, well, here are words that were

614
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:46,799
only used during the Arameic period or during the period

615
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:49,720
of Polomyia, you know, different time periods, right. And so

616
00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:53,160
when it comes to giving the original date of the

617
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,240
Old test of manuscripts, there's not really an original date

618
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:58,880
for any of them. We've got like original date guesses,

619
00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:02,519
and we would say that most of it is exilic

620
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:06,359
and post exilic, with some sections definitely coming in as

621
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,799
pre exilic in the way they're written. Now, that doesn't

622
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:13,519
mean that the stories didn't already exist out there in

623
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:16,279
a different form, or that they didn't have oral tradition.

624
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,000
It just happens to be that the manuscripts we possess

625
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:24,039
have a resemblance of mostly exilic writing. And also they're

626
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:27,640
written mostly an aramic blockscript. So the Hebrew script that

627
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,200
you guys are used to seeing, you might be able

628
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,759
to see some of them. On the wall behind me

629
00:33:30,839 --> 00:33:35,960
over here, that Hebrew script is actually a Hebrew blockscript.

630
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:38,839
Sorry he can't see. The chart at the top of

631
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,039
it tell you which line to look over Hebrew. But

632
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:45,519
that's actually adopted from the Airmians Paleo Hebrew, doesn't. We

633
00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:49,079
don't have a whole lot in Pelio Hebrew. Nevertheless, between

634
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,000
the original manuscripts and the manuscripts we have, there were

635
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,680
obviously lots of changes. We just don't know what was

636
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:58,680
changed because we lack the manuscripts. After we get Hebrew manuscripts,

637
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:01,960
we can track the chain from some of the earliest

638
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,400
ones to later ones. So, for example, if you look

639
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,759
at the lists of tribes in the Book of Judges

640
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:10,320
and in the rest of the Torah, the list of

641
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,320
the twelve tribes don't always match. Sometimes the twelve tribes

642
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,719
are s put up differently because they came from different

643
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,559
time periods obviously, or you know, different things like that.

644
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,079
So you can see the text is there's like original

645
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:27,880
forms or you know, old forms that eventually new forms

646
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,639
get added to them, or parallel traditions get added to

647
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,800
them to get mixed in, and it's hard to know

648
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,519
where one starts and one begins because somebody came along

649
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:40,840
later and started stitching them together. This idea is typically

650
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,880
referred to as the documentary hypothesis or JEDP for short.

651
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,639
That those are the names of the four schools of

652
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,159
authors that redacted and collated the various manuscripts into what

653
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,440
we might consider an actual book. And the earliest is typically,

654
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,519
at least traditionally was classified as the Yahwist. The next

655
00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:06,320
is the Elohist, and then the Deuteronomist, and.

656
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: Then after that you've got a priestly source.

657
00:35:10,199 --> 00:35:13,199
Speaker 2: So but that is changing a little bit. Modern scholars

658
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:16,960
are starting to suspect and like Israel Finkelstein and some

659
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:20,639
others like Jacob Wright, actually a bunch of us beyond that,

660
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:24,280
are starting to suggest that the the oldest strain of

661
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,280
manuscripts are the Elohist sourced. Those come from the northern

662
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,159
tribes and they worshiped basically the Canaanite pantheon. That's why

663
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:36,400
the texts that come from that are clearly have elist

664
00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:41,280
language in it. It seems like they're like a lot

665
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,599
of these people are. They stole all their religion in

666
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,400
a language from the Canaanite religion and language. And if

667
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,719
you look at the towns in northern Israel, a lot

668
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,480
of them are named after gods and goddesses from the

669
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:55,679
Canaanite pantheon.

670
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 3: So that's that's the eloist source.

671
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: That's probably the oldest, to be fair, because we know

672
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:03,599
that the Northern Kingdom existed prior to the Southern Kingdom,

673
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,159
the Yahwist it belongs to the Southern Kingdom of Judah

674
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,159
and the tiny kingdom next to it called Benjamin. And

675
00:36:10,199 --> 00:36:13,079
then the Deuteronomist comes from a later time period, around

676
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:14,119
the time of Josiah.

677
00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 3: Most people think.

678
00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 2: That it was there was a group of priests, perhaps Jeremiah,

679
00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:24,440
Jeremiah's father, maybe some others, that found this book of

680
00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:28,880
Law and pretended that it was missing. So the parts

681
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,320
of the Old Testament that fall into the Deuteronomistic history

682
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,239
probably stems from roughly the time of Josiah. But we

683
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,880
know for sure that only the first third of Jeremiah,

684
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,159
which is very similar to the Deuteronomistic history. Only the

685
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:48,760
first third appears to be original to Jeremiah the next

686
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,840
two thirds of Jeremiah were added later, as were the.

687
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: Last two thirds of Isaiah. So even a lot of

688
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:57,159
prophets from Yeah.

689
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 6: That's kind of my point about the Bible in general,

690
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,800
is that none of not none of it, but even

691
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,400
especially the New Testament. All this people say, Jesus says, sir,

692
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,159
this is the word of God. It's it's not it's

693
00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:11,320
the word, it's the edited word of God or the

694
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,639
translated words. Well, so, yeah, and every translator wanted to

695
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:18,519
put their own agenda on it and use it and

696
00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:19,719
manipulate other people.

697
00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: Uhm, I can you hear me?

698
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I can.

699
00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:27,679
Speaker 1: Keith, Yeah, Keith, Okay. I just wanted to stop you

700
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,840
real quick because, like Justin was, I believe, primarily talking

701
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,719
about Old Testament stuff, which he's fantastic on and and

702
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,360
I really I agree with everything he said, obviously, because

703
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,800
I'm not an expert in that particular field. Uh and

704
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,599
I'm not an expert in New Testament studies. But what

705
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:47,559
I can tell you is that the changes to the

706
00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:51,440
New Testament are kind of locked at about the third century,

707
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,559
because we have full manuscripts starting at the third century.

708
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,800
We have some like uh like pieces of manuscripts and

709
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,960
partial manuscripts and everything like that prior to that, or

710
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,880
even not even manuscripts, like just pieces of like p.

711
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,559
Fifty two, which is just like a small piece of something.

712
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,599
And so we've got we've got those, and we don't

713
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:16,760
know how much the Bible was changed in that first

714
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,679
like couple hundred years. We only know how much it

715
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,639
was changed after the third century onward. And what we

716
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:29,800
can tell you is that there was significant variance in

717
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:35,920
in in the New Testament manuscripts like after the third century,

718
00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:40,679
and it only starts to like, really, I guess, taper

719
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:47,679
down and stabilize once you know, once literacy, you know,

720
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,239
started to spread more and once printing, like the printing

721
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,280
press was developed, Bibles were more readily available. So once

722
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,199
all those things happened, you know, you started getting a

723
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,159
more stable corpus. But modern translations now, like if you're

724
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,480
using NRSVUE or any of the more scholarly editions of

725
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:09,920
the Bible, what they're going to be doing is using

726
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,239
the scholarly like Greek versions or you know, in the

727
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:21,000
Hebrew Bible's version case, the scholarly reconstruction of the Hebrew Bible.

728
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,119
And so what you're getting is a translation from the

729
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:30,599
originals into what they think the authors were trying to

730
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:34,760
convey with those ancient languages. And so just for the

731
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,280
New Testament, at least, we don't know how much it

732
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,239
was changed from its original source. We have better information

733
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,519
for the Old Testament because we do have like the

734
00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:45,079
Dead Sea scrolls as well as other things that show

735
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:49,360
stability across the years. But for the New Testament, we're

736
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,639
kind of locked out of about two hundred years of

737
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,440
changes that we can't actually discern, like what is a change,

738
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,639
what isn't a change? And you know, we like, for instance,

739
00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:01,079
with the long ending of Mark, we were only able to

740
00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:04,199
figure that out because we actually found some earlier manuscripts

741
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,239
that had different endings to Mark, and so we know

742
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,920
that these changes happened. We just don't know what was

743
00:40:11,039 --> 00:40:16,599
changed before the first full manuscripts that we have exist.

744
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 6: Well, thank you so much.

745
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there are some if you're interested in New

746
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,320
Testament changes, there are some notable ones.

747
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,599
Speaker 3: So one that's popular first John five to seven.

748
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 2: That's the classic Trinitarian model. That's not in any early manuscripts.

749
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,559
In fact, we don't even get an early Church quote

750
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:39,760
of it. We get a church quote of that, I

751
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,760
think around the tenth century, and then it doesn't even

752
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,280
show up. It's not even exact, and it doesn't show

753
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,920
up in any manuscript at all until like a couple

754
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,519
hundred years after that. So that one we know was added,

755
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,440
as was the Gospel of John in chapter eight. The

756
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,679
woman that's called an adultry that is a much later edition,

757
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,880
fifth and sixth century. And then one that we don't

758
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,639
hear about often. And there's a lot of these that

759
00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:05,760
are like this. I'm only going to list one of them.

760
00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:08,920
This type of change is super common. If you go

761
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,760
to Mark chapter one, you'll see that there is a

762
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,119
clear contradiction does in the beginning of the Good News

763
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:17,880
of Jesus Christ, as it is written in the prophet Isaiah,

764
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,639
the I'm sending my messenger ahead of you, who will

765
00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:22,920
prepare your away, the voice of the one crying out

766
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,760
in the wilderness, prepare the way the Lord makes straight

767
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,760
his past. Now that's not all from Isaiah. That's a

768
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,559
composite quote partially from Alachi, partially from Isaiah. So as

769
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:35,519
Malachi three in Isaiah forty. The problem that we have

770
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,679
is like, Okay, somebody at some point noticed the problem,

771
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,199
and about the sixth century we get a manuscript pop

772
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,960
up that rather than saying the prophet Isaiah, it just

773
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,079
says the prophets, Like wait, what the prophets?

774
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:51,119
Speaker 3: You wanted to correct that? Someone noticed it.

775
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,679
Speaker 2: So we have a lot of minor corrections to the

776
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,960
manuscripts from hundreds of years after our first manuscript that's

777
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,000
literally just out there trying to correct it.

778
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 6: So it's been pretty heavily edited. And I know that

779
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,960
during eighteen fifties and before that in the United States

780
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,199
they were just out edit out whole sections of the

781
00:42:11,199 --> 00:42:16,119
Bible to help keep the slaves I guess, relaxed and

782
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:19,280
then more attuned to view the white manager as a master.

783
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:21,880
I'm wondering if there's any other really good examples of

784
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,199
how the Bible has been used wholesale like that.

785
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:28,639
Speaker 2: I'll give you. I'll give you one example. So John's

786
00:42:28,679 --> 00:42:31,519
been talking a bit about the authentic Pauline letters because

787
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:36,039
he's working on some stylometric analysis, and one good topic

788
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:39,039
on here is what we First of all, we know

789
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,159
that New Testament books in wholesale were added and later

790
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,400
and attributed to Paul. But even Paul's authentic or seemingly

791
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,440
authentic epistles were edited later as well. So if you

792
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,360
go to First Corinthians fourteen, you're going to find something

793
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,199
in there that is very uncharacteristic of Paul. In the

794
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,039
fake letters of Paul, you'll find the but in the

795
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,840
authentic letters of Paul, he seems very egalitarian. So you'd

796
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,960
be like wondering, well, why does First Corinthians fourteen have

797
00:43:09,079 --> 00:43:12,760
a strong reprimand for the women of corinth Oh is

798
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,960
because that was added. That's not in the early documents.

799
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,320
That shows up later, and it shows up originally as

800
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,880
a footnote, and then sometime later that gets integrated into

801
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,079
chapter fourteen. But it's moving around in different locations for

802
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:30,280
a little while before it finds a stable home as

803
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,360
a very good sign that somebody was like, hey, listen,

804
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,480
we have to keep women down by using this book,

805
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,079
and Paul's not doing it enough. We need to make

806
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:41,039
sure Paul is telling these women to sit down and

807
00:43:41,039 --> 00:43:44,079
shut up. And so we do have you know, some

808
00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:46,599
stuff like that that we're we've known for a long time.

809
00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:47,880
We're interpolations.

810
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 6: Thank you so much. That's exactly what I was looking for.

811
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 3: Perfect by we go all right, yeah, love life John when.

812
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:57,519
Speaker 2: You were a believer. Well, let me let me do

813
00:43:57,559 --> 00:43:59,920
some announcements real quick, and then we'll do some chitchi.

814
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,360
Hey friends, some announcements for those who are here, and

815
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,679
we're at the beginning of the show. We are also

816
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,679
at the Free Thought Library in Austin, Texas, where we're

817
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,760
raising money for the atheist community of Austin, the ACA

818
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:16,159
and also for the Society of Free Thinkers in Canada.

819
00:44:16,519 --> 00:44:20,119
We have not that much time left in the fundraiser

820
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:23,519
and we won't be able to meet your goal unless

821
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:26,159
we can fill out this this less hour or two

822
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,679
with some donations one dollar, five dollars, one hundred dollars,

823
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,119
five hundred dollars, anything you have that can help. Everything

824
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,960
that is going to help us get closer to this goal,

825
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,239
helps to keep the ACA alive and bringing content to

826
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,559
the world for free. So again, nobody at the ACA,

827
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,239
all of the hosts, we're all volunteers, numbers are making

828
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,039
money here. This is a service for the community and

829
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:54,880
just you know, like MPR, sometimes you have to do fundraisers,

830
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,960
and this is our annual fundraiser. That being said, we

831
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:02,599
also speak of volunteers. We'll reiterate. Actually it's not in

832
00:45:02,639 --> 00:45:04,960
the notes for tonight, but we were. They crossed them

833
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,199
out reiterate. We are also usually looking for volunteers at

834
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:11,639
the ACA. You can do volunteer at Atheist dash community

835
00:45:11,639 --> 00:45:16,280
dot org if you're interested in volunteering. Not everybody always

836
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,840
have money to give. Some people do have time and

837
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,360
skills to give, and we greatly appreciate anyone who could

838
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,320
help keep the ACA being the ACA. The ACAA played

839
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:32,199
a huge role in my deconversion from Christianity and then

840
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,920
ultimately out of like weird theistic middle ground to just

841
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,519
accepting the fact, oh yeah, I'm an atheist. This is

842
00:45:39,519 --> 00:45:42,760
something that I own now. So the sea has been

843
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,639
around for a long time and help a lot of people.

844
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: So anything you can give is greatly appreciated.

845
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,159
Speaker 2: The link is on the screen at tiny dot c

846
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,760
c forward slash we are here twenty twenty six. You

847
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,800
can also do a screenshot or take a screen shot

848
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,679
with your phone of the QR code and every donation

849
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,599
is greatly appreciate. Your friend John, I'm curious when when

850
00:46:03,679 --> 00:46:06,519
you were still in the faith, did you run up

851
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:09,800
on some biblical problems that were like, ah, this doesn't

852
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,719
this doesn't make sense, like and did you find that

853
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,760
there were sometimes good apologetics for it, or were the

854
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:23,400
apologetics typically kind of like weeks week sounding, you know.

855
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: To be quite honest, I never really thought too heavily

856
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,119
when I was like a believer, like before I started questioning,

857
00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:33,880
you know, I was very much in the mindset of like, oh, okay,

858
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,840
well that that's fine, Like when I thought about how

859
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:41,440
because I remember as a kid thinking about how, oh,

860
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,519
you know, if if Adam and Eve were the first

861
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:46,239
two humans and that means everybody's related to one another,

862
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,920
and me and my Alabama brain was like, that's fine,

863
00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:55,639
that's perfectly okay, we're all related. Like as a kid,

864
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:58,719
it didn't clock like, hey, fucking your sister's not right

865
00:47:00,559 --> 00:47:03,039
kind of thing. And uh but I think that that

866
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:05,519
was that was due to uh, you know, the problems

867
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:08,800
with the religion and and you know, the that whole

868
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,119
situation like the incests not being an issue until later,

869
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,880
like it was until later it was an issue. And

870
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,760
so for for me, it was more about like the

871
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:24,400
the authorities just basically just saying stuff and that, you know,

872
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:29,519
as an excuse for things, as opposed to actually critically

873
00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:33,360
thinking them out. And you know, I would like the one.

874
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,199
I remember one of the questions as a kid was like, well,

875
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,000
I prayed for this thing to happen and God didn't

876
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,199
make it happen. Why is that? And so but and

877
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:43,920
this was like when I was in elementary school. I

878
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,599
went to a Catholic private school, and uh, I remember

879
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:50,119
one of the teachers. They're just like, Oh, that's that's

880
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:52,920
not That's not how God works you. What you pray

881
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,639
for is God giving you the like confidence or the

882
00:47:56,679 --> 00:48:00,079
ability or the inner strength to do something, not to

883
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:03,519
to like literally do stuff. And like me as a kid,

884
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:05,599
I was like, oh, I was just like, oh, I

885
00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:10,760
misunderstood the assignment here kind of thing. And so you know,

886
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,079
I was like, okay, well I'll start praying for the

887
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:16,119
inner strength and everything. And so like as a kid,

888
00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:18,719
I just implicitly trusted people. And I think that that's

889
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,880
the one thing that kind of guided me in my

890
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,480
deconstruction is that, like, once I started critically thinking about it,

891
00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:27,519
I'm like, what the fuck? Okay, I just I need

892
00:48:27,519 --> 00:48:30,760
to like actually understand things before I believe them from

893
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,039
now on, and like that's just a hord line that

894
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:33,719
I have to draw.

895
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,199
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of young people have good

896
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,159
questions that get kind of pushed down by say like

897
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,400
Sunday school teachers or pastors and even teachers. I remember

898
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,280
in the first grade asking about why God created the

899
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,599
dinosaurs because we were learning about the mass extinction of

900
00:48:51,639 --> 00:48:54,559
the dinosaurs in the first grade, which I'm grateful for,

901
00:48:55,159 --> 00:48:57,639
but like I was baffled, like, well, why would God

902
00:48:57,679 --> 00:49:00,760
make the dinosaurs just to kill him? Why would he?

903
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:04,400
What's the point here? And so was he just tinkering around?

904
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:05,639
Speaker 3: Like I didn't get it?

905
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: Also, Ellie, thank you for the one hundred dollars donation,

906
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:13,360
big w. I just couldn't grasp it like it did. Oh,

907
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,079
and Andrea, hey, thank you for the twenty five dollars donation.

908
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:18,519
Speaker 3: I've seen on the screen popping up. Now here's w Andrea.

909
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:21,000
So like, you know, you have to wrestle with that.

910
00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: And I've got a friend and who won't go name

911
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,559
because they're a dear friend of mine and I love them,

912
00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:28,679
but they don't believe that dinosaurs ever existed and is

913
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:33,159
partially driven by the tie to the religion. And you know,

914
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,880
we'll obviously dinosaur bones are fake. Scientists are faking them

915
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:43,760
little what So it's just weird that you have to

916
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,519
bite so many bullets with their religion.

917
00:49:46,159 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And you know, for me, honestly not really

918
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,599
critically thinking about it because like I love dinosaurs when

919
00:49:54,639 --> 00:49:57,480
I was a kid, I love Jurassic Park and all that,

920
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,920
and just learning about dinosaurs in science in general and

921
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,920
so like it. I really never I was never taught

922
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,639
to engage my critical thinking skills when it comes to,

923
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:14,119
you know, critically analyzing like my belief in God, because

924
00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:16,760
like I totally believed in Jesus and everything like that.

925
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,760
I've spent nearly no time in the Old Testament whatsoever,

926
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:23,960
like actually analyzing it. But I think that's by design,

927
00:50:24,159 --> 00:50:29,519
you know, these these religious denominations, that Christian denominations out there,

928
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:33,159
I think that by design they have to stay away

929
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,840
from certain passages. They can't illuminate those because then people

930
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,320
are gonna be like wait, wait, wait a second. So

931
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,480
like God told them to stab babies in the face,

932
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:47,920
like what what did the babies do? And it causes uncomfortable,

933
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:50,679
like you know, questions to be asked, and I totally

934
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,679
understand why pastors wouldn't want to do it. And the

935
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,239
real disgusting thing though, is when they go to something

936
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:01,840
like William Lane Craig, because on a few occasions, like professionally,

937
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,840
William Lane Craig has been like it was actually a

938
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,960
good thing for the Israelites to unlive or could kill

939
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,639
the baby, the babies of Midian and the Amalekate babies

940
00:51:12,679 --> 00:51:15,519
and everything. And it's like he says this, like, oh,

941
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:18,159
it's a good thing because you know that that means

942
00:51:18,159 --> 00:51:21,480
they didn't grow up in this culture. And like, you know, me,

943
00:51:21,639 --> 00:51:24,400
as a kid, I would have been like, oh, yeah, totally,

944
00:51:24,519 --> 00:51:27,599
it's better to go to heaven than not. And but

945
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,960
now I'm like, wait a second, you're telling me that

946
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,159
this omniscient god couldn't come up with a better fucking

947
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,320
plan than stab babies in the face, Like he can't

948
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:40,519
like sure, you know, assimilate that that culture into yours,

949
00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:42,519
but like take care of them, like that would have

950
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:45,159
been the loving thing to do if he's a loving god.

951
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,320
And that's how I think now. It's just such a

952
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,599
vast difference from how I was deep in the religion

953
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,159
versus how I am now.

954
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what he could This goes to

955
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:59,199
your point. Listen, if you're omniscient and omnipotent, you have

956
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,639
an endless mortgage board of solutions to problems. He could

957
00:52:03,639 --> 00:52:06,639
have just closed the wombs of the of the women

958
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:07,960
of the time period. In fact, he does it on

959
00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:11,440
multiple occasions. Maybe the most famous is Abymelek in Genesis,

960
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,039
Like what if God knows that these babies are gonna

961
00:52:14,039 --> 00:52:16,559
be offt just close the womb, don't let them get pregnant,

962
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:17,760
and it's a done deal.

963
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 3: No baby has to get murdered.

964
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: Misha, thank you for the fifty dollars donation, and also

965
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,119
previous to that logan, thank you for your fifty dollar donation,

966
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,719
super super appreciated.

967
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 3: But yeah, like it, why does God have to use

968
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:30,239
the most violent option?

969
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. But also that particular part of

970
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,760
the Old Testament, when I first read that, I laughed

971
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,840
out loud because like, in my head, the way that

972
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,719
it went down is like, you know, a Bimelek takes

973
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,039
in one of the you know, I forget whose whose

974
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:52,559
wife it was, takes him in, and like God's like

975
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,960
and God, God not sewed up, but closed up all

976
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,119
the wombs in the house. And I'm just sitting here like,

977
00:52:59,199 --> 00:53:03,159
wait a second, what he just he just went zip.

978
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:05,599
Speaker 2: Closed all up.

979
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: He just flipped us rich and it's like, no, say,

980
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:09,840
you're fucked.

981
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 2: God can do that, bro, Like, well, if God can

982
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,639
do that, why not do it for good? Right? I

983
00:53:20,639 --> 00:53:22,559
didn't mean to cut you off there, but like it's

984
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:23,639
just a weird dichotomy.

985
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And you know, like there's just so

986
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:29,880
many things once you go back and you reread the

987
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:35,000
Old Testament especially, there's just so many things that you know,

988
00:53:35,199 --> 00:53:38,119
stick out to you that like make you wonder. It's like,

989
00:53:38,199 --> 00:53:41,960
you know, did did did God hardening Pharaoh's heart so

990
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,599
many times? Didn't that? Like I mean, didn't that mean

991
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:49,039
that he basically plotted an entire thing so that he

992
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:52,840
could torture the Egyptians and then kill all their first

993
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,320
firstborn children. Like it makes it seem like that's what God,

994
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,400
God was like, you know what, I really feel like

995
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,840
killing some fucking kids, but not before I torture people first. Oh,

996
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,119
today is going to be a good day.

997
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: It's it's just it's a hard it's a hard build

998
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,360
to swallow. And like again, it gets into interesting things

999
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,119
with the with the sources too, And some people have

1000
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,880
noticed that in English, the Bible will typically when it

1001
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,920
talks about the hardening of Pharaoh's heart every time his

1002
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,679
hard is hardened, it just uses the phrase that his

1003
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,039
heart was hardened, whether by him or by God. The

1004
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:28,039
interesting thing is when you read it in Hebrew, there's

1005
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:31,159
actually three different words they use for his heart being hardened.

1006
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:35,320
And it's not that they are implying something different happened.

1007
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,840
It actually is just because they're coming from different authors,

1008
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,559
which we can clearly identify, and they had different vocabulary,

1009
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,159
and so it's really interesting every time you read, the

1010
00:54:45,199 --> 00:54:46,960
more you look at the Bible and we're like this,

1011
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:48,559
this is a nonsensical book.

1012
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: Yeah now, And you know, speaking speaking of that, like

1013
00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:57,800
diving deep into the original languages and how it was

1014
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,679
actually originally rendered. I've been so I on on my streams,

1015
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,519
over on my channels and everything. I've got this tool

1016
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:08,440
that I built where I can actually show on screen

1017
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,800
an intertextual thing where I can click on the actual

1018
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,920
like original Hebrew word or Greek word and you know,

1019
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,840
really drilled down into like, well, what what did they

1020
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,800
mean by this word. One of the things that I

1021
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,519
think is really incredibly incredible is when you look at

1022
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:27,599
the I think it's second Kings where the bears come

1023
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,440
and and uh, you know, kill the boys. At a

1024
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,119
lot of you know a lot of times it's like, oh,

1025
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:37,199
they mauled the boys, and and everybody thinks of like

1026
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,320
maybe the remnants or something along those lines, right when

1027
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:45,079
in actuality, if you actually drill down into the Hebrew there,

1028
00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:47,960
it literally means the bears came out of the woods

1029
00:55:48,039 --> 00:55:53,519
and like rip them into, like tore them in Twain, right,

1030
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,639
I mean, like the most this is the most savage,

1031
00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:59,639
Like it's even more savage than most people think it

1032
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:05,840
is because you think about these bears coming out. These

1033
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,639
bears are coming out and they just rip these boys

1034
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:15,320
into and it's just it's so crazy to think about.

1035
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 2: It's weird too, and people will say, well, you know,

1036
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,440
did God do it or did Ali should do it? Okay, Well,

1037
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,840
like it was a curse, and curses only worked when

1038
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,800
God makes it happen, So I get it.

1039
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 3: I see why you might say that.

1040
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:34,280
Speaker 2: But if you just think for two seconds, curses only

1041
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,320
work because somebody uttering the curse is invoking the name

1042
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,440
of that god, and that God's like, h yeah, I'm

1043
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,159
gonna do that. Wouldn't make that happen. Elisha didn't have

1044
00:56:42,199 --> 00:56:45,960
magic powers, all the miracles, all the healings, all the

1045
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,679
stuff that these prophets did was using God's power. They

1046
00:56:49,679 --> 00:56:54,159
were just given authority to beseech the Lord to ask

1047
00:56:54,199 --> 00:56:57,360
for these things to happen, and God granted them to happen, right,

1048
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,920
And so obviously it just means that God caused this

1049
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,320
particular curse to come true. So I and it's it's

1050
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,280
baffling too, because think about this. If God really wanted

1051
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,840
to show these young puck punk what's up, why not

1052
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,519
just have Elishah's hair immediately grow in thick and beautiful.

1053
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,840
They would shut up real fast. Nobody had to die

1054
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:18,039
at all, I know.

1055
00:57:18,159 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be crazy? Like think about it. You got

1056
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,559
the forty two kids, right or however many I think

1057
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:27,360
it's forty two, but you got the kids. They're yelling,

1058
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,960
go up, baldy, go on up, bald head, and he

1059
00:57:30,119 --> 00:57:32,400
just turns around, looks him dead in the face and

1060
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:37,239
like immediately grows like a fabio sort of esque, like

1061
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,199
long flowing hair, and he's just like.

1062
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 2: What now now?

1063
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: And yeah exactly, And then they would go away stunned

1064
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,039
or whatever and maybe believe in Yahweh and sacrifice their

1065
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:50,159
first borns to him who knows.

1066
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's bappling. Sabrina, thank you for the twenty five

1067
00:57:55,039 --> 00:57:56,000
or twenty.

1068
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:58,159
Speaker 2: Five dollars donation, and Sheila, thank you for the ten

1069
00:57:58,239 --> 00:57:58,760
dollar donation.

1070
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,159
Speaker 3: Also, one just came.

1071
00:58:00,159 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: In for one hundred dollars from anonymous, So whoever the

1072
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,280
anonymous donor was, thank you very much.

1073
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 3: It's super appreciated. But the Bible.

1074
00:58:08,119 --> 00:58:11,519
Speaker 2: Stories, they get weirder and weirder if you believe that

1075
00:58:11,639 --> 00:58:15,000
God is like good. So I remember, do you do

1076
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:18,719
you know much about if I use the phrase blood feud,

1077
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:21,679
how what that means in tribal warfare?

1078
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:22,599
Speaker 5: Uh?

1079
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: Sorry to repeat that.

1080
00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:29,079
Speaker 2: There's a there's a phrase that shows up an idea

1081
00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:30,840
that shows up in the Bible a lot. But if

1082
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,199
you don't know much about nomadic culture, it might it

1083
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,519
might get missed.

1084
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:36,519
Speaker 3: Is basically referring to blood feuds.

1085
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: Where blood feud when somebody in your clan gets murdered,

1086
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:43,119
So then you're justified to go murder somebody in their clan.

1087
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:47,960
And so we would expect that God isn't really interested

1088
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,519
in that, but he is interested in that. Then there's

1089
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:53,239
blood feud number two, which is one person in your

1090
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,599
clan gets killed, though multiple people in the other clan

1091
00:58:56,719 --> 00:59:01,360
gets murdered as retribution, and you think, well, that wouldn't

1092
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,960
work because you know the guilty person and then some

1093
00:59:04,119 --> 00:59:06,920
non guilty people would die. God is in favor of

1094
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,679
that as well. In fact, in Second Samuel twenty one,

1095
00:59:11,679 --> 00:59:16,159
God causes a drought to come on David in Israel.

1096
00:59:16,239 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 3: For three years.

1097
00:59:18,239 --> 00:59:22,039
Speaker 2: David is imploring before Yahweh for three years why the dwought,

1098
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,719
why the drought, and God doesn't give him an answer,

1099
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,119
And then after three years of all of his people

1100
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:32,360
suffering for things that they didn't do, he finally answers that, Ah,

1101
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,360
it's because of what Saul did in attacking the Gibbe Knights,

1102
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,199
even though they had a pact with the Gibea Knights

1103
00:59:39,199 --> 00:59:41,480
to let them live. So they're like, okay, what do

1104
00:59:41,519 --> 00:59:44,119
we do about this? So that's why God's mad. God's

1105
00:59:44,159 --> 00:59:49,239
mad that Paul. You know, Saul did something bad against

1106
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:49,920
the Gibba Knights.

1107
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,719
Speaker 3: So the solution that they come up with that God

1108
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:53,559
is pleased.

1109
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:56,599
Speaker 2: With is to take seven random household members left over

1110
00:59:56,639 --> 00:59:59,840
from King Saul he's dead now deven random household members

1111
01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:03,239
and have them impaled on the mountain of the Lord

1112
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,840
before the Lord to solve the blood feud that Yahweh

1113
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:14,880
was mad about. It's the craziest thing. Yeah, we do.

1114
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,239
We have one person in the screening room. I don't

1115
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:20,559
know if they're going to be opposition or not, but

1116
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:22,280
it looks like they're going to be bringing it looks

1117
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,800
like they're atheist is going to be bringing in some

1118
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:29,480
questions at least and friends. You know, if you do

1119
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:32,800
have questions about the Bible, now is probably the best

1120
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:34,840
time to do it because we don't have any opposition

1121
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,559
in the queue. Once we get opposition in the queue,

1122
01:00:36,599 --> 01:00:41,159
then we kind of take the opposition. But I really

1123
01:00:41,239 --> 01:00:43,719
enjoyed taking questions about the Bible. John, what kind of

1124
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:45,400
questions do you typically get interested in?

1125
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean totally the like Bible specific questions,

1126
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:54,440
especially New Testament questions because you know, I mean I've

1127
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,400
done my fair share of research into the Hebrew Bible.

1128
01:00:57,519 --> 01:01:00,760
Not to the link that you have. I am trying

1129
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,039
to learn Hebrew. I know, I've told you that before.

1130
01:01:04,119 --> 01:01:06,840
I am trying to learn Hebrew, but also like the

1131
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,679
New Testament, I've done like extensive like reading in that

1132
01:01:11,039 --> 01:01:13,639
as far as like the scholarship goes. So like I

1133
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,440
like taking any questions about that or any of the

1134
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,199
philosophical questions surrounding, like whether or not the Christian God

1135
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,760
can exist or the Abrahamic God. I guess in particular,

1136
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,199
the one thing that I'm actually starting to dive more

1137
01:01:25,239 --> 01:01:29,360
into now is actually looking at good arguments against the

1138
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:30,239
Islamic God.

1139
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 3: Oh that's a lot of fun.

1140
01:01:33,519 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you've You've ran into and maybe even

1141
01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:39,320
gotten some assistance from ms. Oh.

1142
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's come up. Whenever I have somebody, he's come up.

1143
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:44,559
Speaker 2: Good.

1144
01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:47,639
Speaker 3: Good Aaron, thank you for the fifteen dollar donation.

1145
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: Really appreciate that. We also got I think a seven

1146
01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:56,119
dollar donation from Michael Probert. Super appreciate that. And we

1147
01:01:56,159 --> 01:02:02,039
do have one Collery and Q Camilo from Florida wants

1148
01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:05,880
to ask about the Book of Wisdom in Siria specifically,

1149
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,559
So well, this should be an interesting one book. And Camillo,

1150
01:02:10,159 --> 01:02:12,440
you're on XP with John and Justin. How are you

1151
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:13,679
very good?

1152
01:02:14,159 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 5: Thank you for taking my call. Uh so, No, my

1153
01:02:17,719 --> 01:02:21,480
show was about the Book of Wisdom and the Book Syriac.

1154
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,679
Speaker 2: Oh, right, gotcha, the Book of Wisdom in the syrac language.

1155
01:02:27,079 --> 01:02:29,719
Speaker 5: No, no, no, the the other one that's called Syriac

1156
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:30,840
right after the book.

1157
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:33,599
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean Siracra.

1158
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 5: Sorry my pronunciation. Never, I just read it, I never

1159
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:41,880
said it. All right, what's the question. So my question

1160
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,760
is this, so, uh, in all the Hell Bible, I

1161
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:52,159
never really seen much about like a reward after life,

1162
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,800
you know, a heaven or hell really you know, it's

1163
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,440
always like shield. But I see like a hint of that,

1164
01:02:58,679 --> 01:03:02,719
and I was in short minds for is correct in

1165
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,840
the book with them and also like Sarah, I kind

1166
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,800
of see like this, uh yeah, it's like tendency of

1167
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,039
them kind of saying that they you know, the just

1168
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:15,920
will be rewarded some like you know, reward and again

1169
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,519
like they they they unjust will be like you know,

1170
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:21,360
in hell or something like that.

1171
01:03:21,519 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 2: Is actually that one.

1172
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 5: Correct?

1173
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:32,199
Speaker 2: Yeah? So the the development of hell essentially happened in

1174
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:37,800
the Intertestamental period. So if you look at the apocrypha,

1175
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,840
if you have a Catholic Bible, so I've got a

1176
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:43,280
Catholic Bible, it doesn't include all of the apocrypha because

1177
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,800
not all of the apocrypha got canonized. So for example,

1178
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,159
it's missing third and fourth Maccabee's So you're not going

1179
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:53,039
to find that in a Catholic study Bible. But you

1180
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:55,280
will find let's see, let me grab the listing. So

1181
01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:59,000
for this Catholic Bible, which is typical, it's got Tobit

1182
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:03,119
Judases first and second, Maccabee's Ben Sira also known as

1183
01:04:03,159 --> 01:04:04,599
Sirac Wisdom of.

1184
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 3: Solomon, and there should be one more.

1185
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 2: It should have the addition to should have the addition

1186
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,159
to Jeremiah Baruk. Yeah, Barok's going to be in here,

1187
01:04:15,199 --> 01:04:17,400
and it has some additions to the Book of Daniel.

1188
01:04:18,079 --> 01:04:21,039
Now what you'll discover is that these were written after

1189
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,119
the last book of the Hebrew Bible. So there's some

1190
01:04:25,239 --> 01:04:29,519
developments in the culture that get adopted from the from

1191
01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:32,199
the the Aramians or the the ara.

1192
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:33,159
Speaker 3: Make speaking people.

1193
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,039
Speaker 2: They bring in some zero Astrianism, and then you get

1194
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,519
run ins with the Greeks, and the Greeks bring their

1195
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:43,079
own religion. And every time these cultures come to dominate

1196
01:04:43,159 --> 01:04:47,800
the region, some of their belief systems get adopted because

1197
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,519
they will say.

1198
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 3: They complement what they already believed.

1199
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,519
Speaker 2: Some so they already believed in like an underworld where

1200
01:04:55,519 --> 01:04:56,239
people would go.

1201
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 3: They already believed that there.

1202
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 2: Was a sky above you, or the gods war not

1203
01:05:00,519 --> 01:05:03,440
a realm far away, but like in the sky above you,

1204
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,599
you just can't. You can't always see it, right. It's magical,

1205
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:10,039
it's hidden, but it's in the sky. So this type

1206
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:12,960
of thought just got further developed over and over again.

1207
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:16,199
And there's a couple of books in the apocrypha that

1208
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,800
you might want to check in order to better understand

1209
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:23,679
what they thought. So I would say for the judgment scene,

1210
01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:26,599
the most developed is tewod.

1211
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 3: Esdras chapter seven.

1212
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:32,679
Speaker 2: That chapter has a very intricate judgment scene. Now that

1213
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:35,159
one was written super late. In fact, it might have

1214
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:39,960
even been partially written after Jesus already was on the earth.

1215
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,800
Some of it seems to have been written prior and

1216
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:46,400
some of it after. Also Judith chapter sixteen, fourth, mccabee's

1217
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,920
chapter nine, fourth, mccabee's chapter twelve, Tobit chapter three, Tobit

1218
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:55,559
chapter four, Tobit thirteen, Wisdom of Solomon Chapter one, Wisdom

1219
01:05:55,559 --> 01:06:00,639
of Solomon chapter two, and Wisdom of Solomon chapter sixteen nine,

1220
01:06:00,719 --> 01:06:04,599
Serrac fourteen, Serirac seventeen, Eric twenty one, Serc forty one,

1221
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:08,559
Zerrec forty eight, Direct fifty one, Baruk two, The Prayer

1222
01:06:08,599 --> 01:06:13,159
of Azarayah chapter one, second mccabees six, third Maccabees five,

1223
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,960
third Macabees five again, third Maccabees six. Second as just

1224
01:06:17,039 --> 01:06:20,760
chapter four, second as just chapter eight. I got a

1225
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:26,119
couple more second as chapter four versus five, and then

1226
01:06:26,239 --> 01:06:29,880
first Enoch chapter is twenty one in twenty two. All

1227
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:35,159
of these intertestamental writings talk about the essentially either Hades

1228
01:06:35,679 --> 01:06:40,079
or Hell or Gehenna or some version of the afterlife punishment.

1229
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,079
And I know you probably didn't write all those down,

1230
01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:44,360
but you can go back and rewatch this.

1231
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 3: You'll be able to catch them. And so you'll.

1232
01:06:47,239 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 2: See a vast array of references in the intertestamental mostly

1233
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:56,639
canonical literature about Hell. And then the other thing I

1234
01:06:56,639 --> 01:07:00,000
would recommend is looking at like some of the stuff

1235
01:07:00,239 --> 01:07:03,000
before Jesus, like the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Dead

1236
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,000
Sea Scrolls, we find a lot of references to punishment

1237
01:07:06,039 --> 01:07:09,320
of Hell, like even in the Community Scroll. So in

1238
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:13,400
the Community Scroll it says that you're going to be

1239
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:20,239
sentenced to everlasting fire. Elsewhere it talks about different punishments

1240
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,239
in darkness and suffering. The Damascus Document, the mot of

1241
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:29,119
the Deck Scroll, the War Scroll, and then see the

1242
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:35,760
apocryphal Psalms, and then Kumram him number one, and actually

1243
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:37,679
most of the Kumran and hymn have some sort of

1244
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,800
afterlife punishment, almost all of them. Actually now I'm looking

1245
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:44,760
at them, and there's probably some more, but neveralize. I

1246
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,119
have on my cheat sheet. I don't know if you

1247
01:07:47,159 --> 01:07:49,320
have it. I have a tab for.

1248
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:53,079
Speaker 5: Next question to say, that's where you're getting out read

1249
01:07:53,119 --> 01:07:54,440
all those lissons.

1250
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: I have on my cheat sheet of tabs specifically for

1251
01:07:59,239 --> 01:08:05,360
after life punishment. Hell hades type of mentions in all

1252
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:08,199
of the ancient literature. So I've got the Dead Sea Scrolls.

1253
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,440
I personally went through the Dead Sea Scrolls. I personally

1254
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:13,079
went through the Talmud. I personally went through all the

1255
01:08:13,079 --> 01:08:18,439
writings of Josephus and the Jewish Sudepigrafa and the Apocrypha

1256
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,359
and the Bible, and I made a master list of

1257
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,079
every reference about Hell and the after the negative afterlife,

1258
01:08:25,079 --> 01:08:28,880
not about heaven. And I think you'll find it quite interesting.

1259
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,640
There's like a hundred different references. Hold on, I got

1260
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:36,479
one hundred and fifty something references from the literature that

1261
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,720
would give you a pretty exhaustive idea of what they

1262
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,439
thought about Hell. And you'll be shocked to find out

1263
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,479
that none of it exists in the standard Old Testament canon.

1264
01:08:46,079 --> 01:08:48,119
Speaker 5: Awesome, awesome, that was.

1265
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, go ahead, Well I was just going to

1266
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,520
throw this in there. See what Justin thinks about this.

1267
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:01,640
There's some scholarly literature are out there examining like the

1268
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:08,159
transition between the Hebrew Bible, Judaism and Christianity, and they

1269
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:12,479
identify it's split in the field admittedly, but they do

1270
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:17,199
identify Zoroastrianism as having an effect direct effect on some

1271
01:09:17,239 --> 01:09:21,279
of the theology and the Hebrew Bible, well not the

1272
01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:24,880
Hebrew Bible, but in that transition from Judaism to Christianity,

1273
01:09:25,239 --> 01:09:28,880
in that Zoroastrianism does have like a burning hell and

1274
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:34,640
like a celestial adversary that's juxtaposed against their savior figure,

1275
01:09:35,119 --> 01:09:38,880
and so like that's one of the areas that syncretism

1276
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:44,600
could have occurred between Judaism and between the transition between

1277
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,760
Judaism and Christianity. And so I'm just wondering what Justin

1278
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:49,520
thinks about that.

1279
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 2: This is, as far as I was always taught, kind

1280
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,560
of the mainstream view unless you're like a super conservative scholar.

1281
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:02,039
So when I was in Samria, my my old Testament professor,

1282
01:10:02,399 --> 01:10:04,640
which is one of the reasons why I went to

1283
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:06,119
the seminary. I went to because I was going to

1284
01:10:06,159 --> 01:10:08,880
study the Old Testament, and he was very well respected

1285
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:15,560
in the academic community, and he just blanketly said that, yeah,

1286
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,800
this is the case. This is the accepted view that

1287
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:23,520
the developments of Hell were influenced during the period of

1288
01:10:24,039 --> 01:10:28,159
interaction with Zoroastrianism. And it's pretty easy to see, like

1289
01:10:28,199 --> 01:10:30,720
if you just look at what they believed in the

1290
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:35,079
zeros Asterian religion and look at the new stuff that

1291
01:10:35,119 --> 01:10:38,119
gets added to the old stuff, the new stuff just

1292
01:10:38,199 --> 01:10:41,239
parallels what they believed in Zoroastrianism. That's one of the

1293
01:10:41,279 --> 01:10:46,600
reasons why Satan got developed into this malevolent almost you know,

1294
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:50,119
a counterpart to God, even though beforehand he was kind

1295
01:10:50,119 --> 01:10:53,279
of like almost like a henchman of God. But they

1296
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:56,800
needed a way to explain things, and they found that

1297
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,840
the Zoroastrian belief system was relatively capacity with their belief

1298
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,920
system with some slight modification, So why not adopt it?

1299
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,199
Speaker 1: Yeah and correct me if I'm wrong there, justin But

1300
01:11:07,399 --> 01:11:11,840
the adversary in the Old Testament that's normally translated to

1301
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:17,239
be like Satan is never just one particular being like

1302
01:11:17,319 --> 01:11:20,159
celestial being, like it was more of like a position

1303
01:11:21,039 --> 01:11:22,760
in like God's court or something.

1304
01:11:24,039 --> 01:11:27,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is some debate about whether or not

1305
01:11:27,279 --> 01:11:31,560
the adversary is one or multiple individuals. I think, you know,

1306
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,960
I've always fell on the position that it could be

1307
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:40,119
multiple individuals. Originally, because these are in the Divine Council

1308
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:44,359
of God the original Canaanite religion, people could change roles like.

1309
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:46,039
Speaker 3: It wasn't like you had one particular role.

1310
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:49,199
Speaker 2: So, for example, in the early period of the Bail cycle,

1311
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,560
Bail wasn't on the heights of the phone in his

1312
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:56,039
own temple ruling over the other seventy children of Vel.

1313
01:11:56,119 --> 01:11:59,039
He had to rise to that level of leadership. And

1314
01:11:59,279 --> 01:12:03,439
there's even sometimes there's like battles to see who's going

1315
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,399
to be in what position inside of these pantheons. And

1316
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:08,760
so if you've got somebody who's on the Divine Council

1317
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:10,760
as the accuser, there's no reason why they couldn't be

1318
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,760
deposed and replaced with somebody else, or even have multiples

1319
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:15,880
filling in that role.

1320
01:12:16,319 --> 01:12:20,039
Speaker 3: So the problem is in later biblical literature, they started

1321
01:12:20,079 --> 01:12:24,279
to associate the role with a single character, and it

1322
01:12:24,399 --> 01:12:28,600
probably wasn't on purpose. It seemed to be a has seton.

1323
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,239
It means the adversary.

1324
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 2: It's easy to read a story about the adversary and

1325
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,119
then start thinking, oh, there's only one of them. It's

1326
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:40,199
the adversary, right, And so in later Biblical literature it

1327
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:42,479
seems like they start to conflate, like in the Book

1328
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,600
of Job and Zachariah, they start to conflate this idea

1329
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:50,239
of an adversary to being the adversary. And you'll this

1330
01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:56,399
best example in Zachariah. In fact, Zachariah was written so

1331
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,199
late that by the time Zachary or whoever wrote it

1332
01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:04,640
was writing, this thematic change had already taken place. It

1333
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:09,199
was basically already done. Which is why Yahweh and the

1334
01:13:09,199 --> 01:13:13,359
Angel of the Lord and Satan are all like individual

1335
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,279
developed characters that like have their own function, Whereas in

1336
01:13:17,319 --> 01:13:21,199
the earliest parts of the Bible, the Satan, or rather

1337
01:13:21,359 --> 01:13:24,920
just a Satan, seemed to be kind of ubiquitous, like

1338
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,920
we have one adversary that shows up in numbers twenty

1339
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,479
one and twenty two, and when Balim's on his donkey,

1340
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:32,760
we don't believe it. Satan's no good reason to believe

1341
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,279
that it is and you know it just these are

1342
01:13:36,319 --> 01:13:40,680
motif changes that happen over time. We've Elaine Pegels wrote

1343
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:41,920
a really good book on.

1344
01:13:42,079 --> 01:13:44,279
Speaker 3: The development and origin of Satan.

1345
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,239
Speaker 2: I apologize I haven't actually read the book, so I

1346
01:13:47,279 --> 01:13:49,119
also I can tell you is that she wrote on it.

1347
01:13:49,199 --> 01:13:52,520
But she's a wonderful scholar. I'd be intrigued to see

1348
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,680
if she traced a timeline of the development.

1349
01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:02,279
Speaker 5: Spin Just to clarify. So, I'm reading they and are

1350
01:14:02,359 --> 01:14:05,920
as the U or EU or you know, the one

1351
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:12,359
you guys recommend usually like you know, the Bible app

1352
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,760
or something like that. But so like I see that

1353
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,720
that one includes you know, the Macivis and whatnot. So

1354
01:14:18,119 --> 01:14:21,720
are the wisdom and the syrac that's not in the

1355
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,439
like stand their Hebrew Bible like what you know, like

1356
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,319
the Jews actually read that's that's not part of their books.

1357
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:32,560
Speaker 2: So it's complicated. So the Jewish canon wasn't closed until

1358
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,000
around the enclosed is loose. Around the turn of the

1359
01:14:36,039 --> 01:14:40,399
first century, there was a school in Jamnia where they

1360
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:44,600
started discussing canonical matters. Some people will say there was

1361
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:52,920
a council. It doesn't appear Jamnia. It's northern Palestine. Okay, anyways,

1362
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:56,039
it was it was kind of a you'll find it

1363
01:14:56,319 --> 01:14:59,479
referenced under the Council of Jamnia. But most of the

1364
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,239
scholars I've talk to you don't believe it was just

1365
01:15:01,279 --> 01:15:04,920
like a council. Believes this was actually like an actual school,

1366
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:09,000
like an influential school of Jewish rabbis that would get

1367
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,119
together and discuss things.

1368
01:15:11,079 --> 01:15:12,600
Speaker 3: Nevertheless, it wasn't.

1369
01:15:12,399 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 2: Until around the turn of the first century that they

1370
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,840
were motivated to say, hey, we have to close our

1371
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,399
canon off. And one of the reasons is because the

1372
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,159
early Christian movement was so heavily based on what would

1373
01:15:24,199 --> 01:15:30,039
probably be considered less reliable, less credible Jewish texts. So

1374
01:15:30,199 --> 01:15:33,199
like the Book of Enoch was huge. In fact, Jude

1375
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,680
and Second Peter both quote from Enoch. Jude, especially in

1376
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:41,279
Jude chapter one, verse fourteen, explicitly quotes first Enoch chapter one,

1377
01:15:41,359 --> 01:15:45,479
verse nine and calls it prophecy. And so this but

1378
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,600
this book, while it was influential, was not accepted by

1379
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:54,920
mainstream like rabbinic Judaism, as being authoritative. And so one

1380
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:56,760
of the reasons why they're like, hey, actually we need

1381
01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:01,039
to kind of tighten things up was because by reading

1382
01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:05,760
these pseudographic texts and reading these texts that were like

1383
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,680
outside of the purview of official Judaism.

1384
01:16:09,079 --> 01:16:11,079
Speaker 3: They kept having these cults pop up.

1385
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 2: And these messianic movements pop up that needed to be

1386
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:16,760
put down by the Romans, and they're like, listen, this

1387
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,640
is actually kind of troublesome. And so that's kind of

1388
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:23,239
when they started closing the canon. Prior to that, what

1389
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:26,960
was the canon is really difficult to pin down. It

1390
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,520
seems like everybody has a different opinion. There's stories about, oh,

1391
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,159
there was you know, twenty two books for the same

1392
01:16:34,279 --> 01:16:37,520
number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet. That's a nonsensical argument,

1393
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,920
even if you read through the Talmid.

1394
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:42,600
Speaker 3: Sometimes though, quote from texts.

1395
01:16:42,319 --> 01:16:46,399
Speaker 2: That aren't always from the official canon. But nevertheless, the

1396
01:16:46,399 --> 01:16:49,880
early Christians, for a fact, for a fact, based their

1397
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,239
theology on at least the apocrypha that you'll find in

1398
01:16:53,279 --> 01:16:56,159
the standard Catholic Bible. Inside of my cheat sheet, I

1399
01:16:56,159 --> 01:16:58,720
have a tab for the Apocrypha, and inside of that tab,

1400
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:00,479
I have a link to a word document that I

1401
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,319
put together a long time ago showing every quote from

1402
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,279
or about the Apocrypha in the first four hundred years

1403
01:17:07,279 --> 01:17:10,039
of the Church. And there is no doubt whatsoever if

1404
01:17:10,119 --> 01:17:12,640
you go through that document that you will find that

1405
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,920
every church father that talks about the Apocrypha or quotes

1406
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,840
from the Apocrypha is going to call it a scripture.

1407
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:19,840
They're going to call it inspired, they're going to call

1408
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,520
it prophetic. And even Justin Martyr argued that the Jews

1409
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:27,359
tried to remove the apocalyph from the canon because it

1410
01:17:27,399 --> 01:17:31,119
spoke so clearly and prophetically about Jesus. And so that's

1411
01:17:31,119 --> 01:17:32,479
one of the reasons why they had the close the

1412
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:37,640
Old Testament canon is just because the Christian movement made

1413
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:41,800
it so utterly difficult to rein in like what what

1414
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:45,119
is official Judaism? What do we really believe and hold

1415
01:17:45,159 --> 01:17:47,920
fast to is a core set of books and doctrines,

1416
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:50,039
And so that's kind of how that played out.

1417
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:57,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, so that makes a lot of sense. It

1418
01:17:57,159 --> 01:18:00,439
says that, you know, I'm reading the Bible right and

1419
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,640
I'm trying to read it and start to finish. Uh.

1420
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:07,000
You know, it's really hard to see where that theology

1421
01:18:07,159 --> 01:18:10,359
like emerged up to this point. I'm like, Aha, this

1422
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:12,720
is the first time that I'm like, oh, I can

1423
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,880
kind of see where somebody might have you know, got

1424
01:18:16,039 --> 01:18:19,279
in it, like, but before this book, I just they

1425
01:18:19,279 --> 01:18:22,039
didn't really see that. The only thing I saw was

1426
01:18:22,119 --> 01:18:27,119
shield And actually on that same uh the topic, one

1427
01:18:27,119 --> 01:18:29,279
thing I found, I think is in the Book of

1428
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:31,840
Sounds that I that also like blew my mind and

1429
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,039
I asked other people about it. I think it's very

1430
01:18:34,039 --> 01:18:37,640
little known. It's this realm call like I think like Abbodos,

1431
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,079
which is kind of like almost like a tartist to

1432
01:18:40,279 --> 01:18:46,159
like Haites like, it's like a deeper like she like like.

1433
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:48,640
Speaker 3: This, Yeah, if you're in Tartars, you're not having a

1434
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:49,039
good time.

1435
01:18:49,039 --> 01:18:50,039
Speaker 2: You're in a lot of trouble.

1436
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 5: I thought it was interesting that I went to a

1437
01:18:54,039 --> 01:18:56,520
Jewish friend that I have a colleague, and I asked this, like,

1438
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:58,680
have you ever heard of this Abbodos? And she's like,

1439
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:59,520
I have no idea.

1440
01:18:59,399 --> 01:19:00,199
Speaker 2: That you know.

1441
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:05,199
Speaker 5: But anyways, if you guys have somebody else, you can

1442
01:19:05,279 --> 01:19:07,840
kick me out. But I didn't have another question. If

1443
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:08,680
you allow men.

1444
01:19:09,079 --> 01:19:11,359
Speaker 2: Well, we don't have anyone else in queue, and you've

1445
01:19:11,359 --> 01:19:13,880
got a couple of remains in the stream, so before

1446
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,920
you ask your last question. Thank you Ley for the

1447
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:20,760
five dollars donation and Teresa for the twenty five dollars donation,

1448
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:24,880
and I did Cherry and Anonymous for the six sixty

1449
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:29,199
six Top appreciate that also. I think we got sixty

1450
01:19:29,359 --> 01:19:32,520
six from Jacob Hell. Yeah, well, oh, I'm sorry, what's

1451
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:32,880
your question?

1452
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:33,159
Speaker 3: Friend?

1453
01:19:34,119 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 5: Yes? So another question I've been wondering, like I read

1454
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:43,199
like the profits, the major profits and whatnot, is, you know,

1455
01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:47,159
they have all the warnings for foreign nations and like

1456
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,520
you know, they talk about this supremity of their God

1457
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:54,920
in like the context of even nations that they were

1458
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:58,720
like you know, inhabited, like Babylon and Persia and whatnot.

1459
01:19:59,119 --> 01:20:03,520
I just always wonder were this prophets or the movements

1460
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:07,119
or the schools or they probably you know, like evangelizing

1461
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,640
you know, Judaism at the time, like you know, like

1462
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,880
repentanl like the Emperor king or of that time. Is

1463
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,920
just like who are they writing this warnings to, you know?

1464
01:20:18,159 --> 01:20:21,520
Or is it just like you know, just to themselves,

1465
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,640
I guess, just making themselves feel good about how good

1466
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:27,760
their God is, you know, Like I just I don't know,

1467
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,119
it's like what are they yelling this warnings too? Because

1468
01:20:30,119 --> 01:20:33,399
they just have such specific warnings for every single nation

1469
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:37,239
and I don't know, you know, so.

1470
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 2: One of the things that that prophets had to do

1471
01:20:42,079 --> 01:20:44,479
in the ancient world, one of the main things that

1472
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:48,279
they did was informed the king. Yes, there were profits

1473
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:52,399
that were just out there in the citizenship doing doing

1474
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:56,399
stuff that were respected, but in the ancient earis mostly

1475
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,039
prophets were in the court with the king. In fact,

1476
01:20:59,039 --> 01:21:03,640
that's why when Jeremiah and Isaiah when they go and

1477
01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:06,760
deliver their prophecies, a lot of times they're going to

1478
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,279
the king's court to deliver the prophecy in front of

1479
01:21:10,319 --> 01:21:11,960
all the people. And so.

1480
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 3: What you would expect is.

1481
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,880
Speaker 2: A lot of the prophecies are geopolitical in nature because

1482
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:20,760
they're advising the king. You would think, if if the

1483
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,439
Messiah was so important, why do we waste all this

1484
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,119
time in the Bible having like ninety percent of the

1485
01:21:26,119 --> 01:21:29,800
prophecies just geopolitical predictions for the future. Oh, it's because

1486
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:33,680
that's what prophecy was about. Prophecy was about informing the

1487
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:37,399
king and informing the leadership of what to do so

1488
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:40,319
that God won't mess them up. Or you know what

1489
01:21:40,359 --> 01:21:42,720
you're doing that God likes, so you'll keep doing it right.

1490
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:46,640
And so in the Bible you've got all these warning

1491
01:21:47,079 --> 01:21:50,560
against other nations, not because it made them feel good,

1492
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,600
but just because when people are doing these prophecies. I

1493
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,119
went to a church that used to engage in prophecies

1494
01:21:57,119 --> 01:21:59,680
for a long time. Honestly, it's just people getting a

1495
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,000
feel and then blurting that feeling out as though they

1496
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,239
think it is from God. I've had people speak prophecies

1497
01:22:06,319 --> 01:22:10,159
over me that were the most absurd, nonsensical stuff ever.

1498
01:22:10,319 --> 01:22:13,319
It's just because you get a feeling, you get an unction,

1499
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:15,199
and you think, oh, well, it must be from God.

1500
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:17,720
It certainly can't just be my brain doing weird things.

1501
01:22:18,199 --> 01:22:21,319
And so I think the same thing was happening in

1502
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:24,039
the ancient world. They were getting worked up into a frenzy.

1503
01:22:24,119 --> 01:22:26,880
Even Paul, sorry Saul king Saul, when he receives the

1504
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:32,880
Holy Spirit, he in First Emuel chapter ten, six through nine,

1505
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:35,359
he receives a new heart in a new spirit, and

1506
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,159
he becomes prophetic, and he breaks out in a prophetic

1507
01:22:38,239 --> 01:22:41,279
frenzy and strips down naked and rolls around on the

1508
01:22:41,279 --> 01:22:44,199
ground in a prophetic frenzy. You see the same thing

1509
01:22:44,199 --> 01:22:47,479
with Isaiah. Isaiah walks around naked for like three years

1510
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,600
for part of a prophecy. So it was one of

1511
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,319
those things where the prophecies were a bunch of people

1512
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:57,920
trying to inform the king by going into these weird

1513
01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:03,439
prophetic emotional frenzies and just blurting stuff out and unlike,

1514
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,279
you know, Israel probably did kill a number of prophecies

1515
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,600
of prophets that got stuff wrong. They were actually more

1516
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:14,840
lenient towards their profits Babylon. In Egypt, oh, they would

1517
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:18,000
straight up murder hordes of profits. If they gave you

1518
01:23:18,079 --> 01:23:22,159
a geopolitical prediction that didn't come true, You're done, son, You're.

1519
01:23:22,039 --> 01:23:23,039
Speaker 3: Not going to see the light of day.

1520
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 5: So like, so my point is, though I see what

1521
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:28,920
you're saying, like when it comes to like obviously saw

1522
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:32,560
like Samuel when they had kings, but presumably, or at

1523
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:34,520
least I was, I understand a lot of these prophecies

1524
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,840
were done when they're in exile. They don't have a king,

1525
01:23:38,119 --> 01:23:40,880
Like who are they profits? Science, Like who is their

1526
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:47,279
audience other than themselves in in in exile like in Babylon.

1527
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,840
Or maybe maybe I'm wrong or like when like the

1528
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,439
later Isaiah, you know I is ridden and stuff like that.

1529
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Later Isaiah is supposed to be written primarily

1530
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:01,000
to those who are in exile. So you think like

1531
01:24:01,079 --> 01:24:04,560
Isaiah sixty one, Isaiah sixty one sets it up. We're

1532
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:09,199
essentially the prophet is depicting his ministry. Sorry about that,

1533
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:14,279
depicting his ministry as delivering the profit of the prophecy

1534
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,960
to those that are in exile and returning. Right. So,

1535
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:23,319
latter Isaiah is clearly to the people, whereas primary Isaiah

1536
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:27,479
first Isaiah is mostly to the.

1537
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 3: Leadership, the model change. Once Israel had no leadership.

1538
01:24:32,119 --> 01:24:33,840
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Are you going to go up

1539
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:36,479
to the palace and deliver the prophecy to the king? No,

1540
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,439
they're all gone, they're dead. You've been exiled, right, So

1541
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:43,760
the exilic prophets had a much more broad spectrum of who.

1542
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 3: They were talking to and writing to.

1543
01:24:47,079 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 5: Well, thank you justin Thank you guy Thiss engineering. You

1544
01:24:51,079 --> 01:24:52,359
guys are awesome.

1545
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for calling in man. We appreciate it.

1546
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:02,079
Speaker 5: Keep bring somebody readers, reader questions. I'll call another time.

1547
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,640
I've been reading the Bible. I love you guys. Thank you,

1548
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:07,239
sure thing.

1549
01:25:07,279 --> 01:25:10,600
Speaker 2: Friend. That's a fun question. That's actually a very valid

1550
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,079
point for people who want to read about the transition

1551
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:18,119
in the profits in theme and function and audience.

1552
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 3: Uh, there's a scholar Samuel P.

1553
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,560
Speaker 2: Meyer from Ohio State University I think he's retired now,

1554
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:25,600
wrote a book on this.

1555
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 3: It's actually a really good book.

1556
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:28,319
Speaker 2: Just look up the works of Samuel P.

1557
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 5: Meyer.

1558
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:32,079
Speaker 2: If you want to trace the development through the profits

1559
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,079
over time period, you'll see some really fun patterns emerging.

1560
01:25:35,159 --> 01:25:38,479
But friends, we're listen, we're at like the last minute

1561
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,159
or two of the live stream, and we had some

1562
01:25:41,279 --> 01:25:43,640
donations come in and we really appreciate it. But let's

1563
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:46,319
let's have a let's have a hoorah at the end.

1564
01:25:46,399 --> 01:25:49,359
Let's let's see if we can do at least one minute,

1565
01:25:49,399 --> 01:25:51,439
let's get some donations. Can we get like another two

1566
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,960
hundred hours in the last two minutes, That would be fantastic.

1567
01:25:56,039 --> 01:25:58,960
Last year, if I remember correctly, last year, we did

1568
01:25:59,079 --> 01:26:03,199
about twelve thousand dollars or so. Is that about right? Gray?

1569
01:26:03,239 --> 01:26:04,600
Can you let me know what we did last year.

1570
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:08,359
I'm hoping we could at least beat last year's annual fundraiser.

1571
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:09,960
Last year was the first one.

1572
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:15,199
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, you know, it's been so long. I actually

1573
01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:18,720
can't remember last year's fundraiser. I know that I helped

1574
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,039
with it because Bercifas I had to get Barcifas out

1575
01:26:21,079 --> 01:26:23,479
of the back room to come up here and do

1576
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:26,920
his appearance. So, like, I know, so I don't know

1577
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:28,960
how it all ended up last year, but yeah, I

1578
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,239
mean I think that, you know, we can definitely get

1579
01:26:31,279 --> 01:26:35,039
in a few more of those those donos. Let's get

1580
01:26:35,079 --> 01:26:38,279
some five or ten dollars donos or you know, anything

1581
01:26:38,359 --> 01:26:41,039
really helps, I mean, to help us keep it keep

1582
01:26:41,039 --> 01:26:42,439
it going here at the ACA.

1583
01:26:43,239 --> 01:26:46,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see Fox twenty Just send in Fox money,

1584
01:26:46,359 --> 01:26:49,880
just send in Sorry, is that Fox honey? Fox honey

1585
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:52,720
to send in twenty huge? W Fox really appreciate that.

1586
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,960
I hope I'm saying that name right. It's pH x honey,

1587
01:26:56,319 --> 01:26:59,960
which is I'm assuming supposed to be sounded out as fox.

1588
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,560
Speaker 3: I could be wrong. I could be wrong. Also about foxes.

1589
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:05,079
I bet foxes love honey.

1590
01:27:05,079 --> 01:27:07,159
Speaker 2: They're kind of like, well they eat like chickens and

1591
01:27:07,119 --> 01:27:09,239
spin animals, but they kind of forge too, don't they.

1592
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: I think so, I'm not sure. I just know what

1593
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:14,239
the fox says.

1594
01:27:15,239 --> 01:27:22,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a classic. That is a I think

1595
01:27:22,359 --> 01:27:24,760
we brought in a little over ten thousand last year,

1596
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:31,039
so that means we at least surpassed last year's donation amount. Huge.

1597
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 3: Thank you. Also, thank you mal.

1598
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 2: Gorezada for sending in the thirty dollars a donation. Really

1599
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:43,079
appreciate that, and Diane for the fifty dollars and Anonymous

1600
01:27:43,319 --> 01:27:44,479
for the ten dollars.

1601
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 3: We really do appreciate that.

1602
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:46,279
Speaker 2: Friends.

1603
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 3: The ACA is volunteer rand.

1604
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:55,159
Speaker 2: We have I think maybe two or three people on

1605
01:27:55,239 --> 01:27:58,439
staff that keep everything on the rails and then everything

1606
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:03,039
else is just volunteer ran. So it does take, you know,

1607
01:28:03,079 --> 01:28:06,039
a community to keep the ACA alive doing what the

1608
01:28:06,079 --> 01:28:07,359
ACA does.

1609
01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:10,560
Speaker 3: Also, we've got our backup with us tonight.

1610
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:13,039
Speaker 2: Kelly. How you doing, Bud?

1611
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:13,600
Speaker 4: Jill?

1612
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:14,239
Speaker 2: How are you?

1613
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:18,520
Speaker 1: Hey, Kelly, It's always great to be here with you.

1614
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1615
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,720
Speaker 7: I was just amazed at how like I because I

1616
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,239
backed up talk or truth winded just before this, and

1617
01:28:25,279 --> 01:28:27,680
like we got like five calls of all nice people,

1618
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:28,880
and it was amazing to me.

1619
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen all that often usually get uh So,

1620
01:28:37,039 --> 01:28:39,800
apparently the spirit of the Lord was was not out tonight.

1621
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,279
Usually the spirit of the Lord causes people to crash out.

1622
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:47,039
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, really to spirit of the lord's such a

1623
01:28:47,079 --> 01:28:47,680
son of a bitch.

1624
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:54,319
Speaker 2: Actually, no, think about it. He's generated by the son

1625
01:28:54,359 --> 01:28:56,279
of the bitch. I don't know. It's very complex. It's

1626
01:28:56,319 --> 01:29:01,640
trinitarian model. Have you heard that that Jesus and the

1627
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,880
Spirit are generated by the Father and heard that language?

1628
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: No, No, it's a wild one.

1629
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, I don't understand how the Father generates

1630
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,319
the son. If the son is co equal and co eternal,

1631
01:29:14,359 --> 01:29:17,600
he can't be co equal if it's dependent on the

1632
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:19,520
Father for him to be generated.

1633
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:20,279
Speaker 3: What are we doing here?

1634
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:21,399
Speaker 1: Good point.

1635
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,199
Speaker 7: It doesn't make yet, it doesn't make any sense at all.

1636
01:29:25,359 --> 01:29:30,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, any any thoughts on the show or any callers

1637
01:29:30,359 --> 01:29:31,800
previous today from me?

1638
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:33,159
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1639
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,199
Speaker 7: H no, Like I said, I was really surprised we

1640
01:29:36,199 --> 01:29:38,560
had such, you know, such nice callers today, and I

1641
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:42,079
think it's awesome that we had a really successful fundraiser.

1642
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:43,159
Speaker 2: That was incredible.

1643
01:29:44,359 --> 01:29:46,800
Speaker 7: Honestly, my brain is a little bit slow. I've been

1644
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,119
up for the whole thing for the whole twenty four hours.

1645
01:29:49,159 --> 01:29:53,840
Speaker 2: So oh dang, yeah, that's you. Yeah, that's huge. That

1646
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:55,039
worked as well as it used to.

1647
01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't usually work that good anyway, So.

1648
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 2: I think we know to god, I see Luke Higgins

1649
01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:04,640
just sending one hundred hours as well. I'm looking at

1650
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:08,199
our final number because we've got more that are off

1651
01:30:08,279 --> 01:30:11,920
of the ZEFI website. Our final number tonight so far

1652
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,920
looks like sixteen, four hundred and eighty five, so we

1653
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:20,039
we got about six thousand dollars more than last year's

1654
01:30:20,079 --> 01:30:23,640
annual Fundrais are a huge w to everyone donated. Super

1655
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:27,359
appreciated friends, And before we sign off, it's seven o four.

1656
01:30:27,359 --> 01:30:29,359
It's time to sign off. But we will be here

1657
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:32,439
again next week, so make sure you come back for

1658
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:37,399
the regular XP showing airing next week and we'll probably

1659
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:39,439
get some anger if I had to guess, probably gonna

1660
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:41,119
get some angry THEIS callers.

1661
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:43,399
Speaker 3: But John, it was great to be on screen with

1662
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:44,079
you again, friend.

1663
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:46,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's always great being on a stream with

1664
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:48,880
you there, Justin and I yeah, I feel like we

1665
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,880
definitely need to do something during the week, like you

1666
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:54,319
know sometime. I know that you've been doing more of

1667
01:30:54,359 --> 01:30:57,359
those kinds of shows, So I mean, I'm always down

1668
01:30:57,399 --> 01:30:58,479
for it, just saying.

1669
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,079
Speaker 2: Let's make it happen, make it app but I'll contact

1670
01:31:01,119 --> 01:31:01,840
you after the show.

1671
01:31:02,239 --> 01:31:03,680
Speaker 7: I was an honor to be here with both of

1672
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:04,520
you guys.

1673
01:31:04,319 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 2: So Kelly, it's always a pleasure and we're glad that

1674
01:31:08,039 --> 01:31:09,359
you're here and feeling.

1675
01:31:09,079 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 7: Better, don't thank you, thank you much, appreciate that.

1676
01:31:12,199 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a little bit of panic earlier when

1677
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:18,720
I saw the news, like, oh no, not Kelly.

1678
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:22,319
Speaker 3: So we're glad that you're doing well.

1679
01:31:22,359 --> 01:31:26,159
Speaker 2: Friend, Thank you, thank you so much. All right, friends,

1680
01:31:26,359 --> 01:31:28,399
signing off for the week. Thank you so much. Make

1681
01:31:28,399 --> 01:31:30,920
sure you watch the other shows throughout the week. The

1682
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:32,800
Sunday show is not the only show that's produced by

1683
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:33,439
the ACA.

1684
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:35,279
Speaker 3: Make sure you're catching the other ones.

1685
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:40,199
Speaker 7: Oh, don't forget that next Sunday that Truth Wanted will

1686
01:31:40,279 --> 01:31:44,720
be broadcast from now on before a Atheist Experience. So

1687
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:48,239
every Sunday from now on if you've wanted between Takezan

1688
01:31:48,359 --> 01:31:49,680
and atheist Experience.

1689
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:51,319
Speaker 2: Fantastic.

1690
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:53,279
Speaker 1: I didn't even get paid to say that.

1691
01:31:55,039 --> 01:31:58,720
Speaker 2: Not at all. Not a time. All right, friends, have

1692
01:31:58,800 --> 01:31:59,319
a great week.

1693
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:00,520
Speaker 3: Was see you again next week?

1694
01:32:01,119 --> 01:32:03,279
Speaker 2: Right way.

1695
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:13,079
Speaker 1: To start, alpeny y, stop questioning the bullshit everyone around you.

1696
01:32:13,159 --> 01:32:18,760
Speaker 2: Your bike, they shit setting up your biness, walkles down.

1697
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:19,840
It's way fast.

1698
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:22,560
Speaker 1: Diet Ellen doing it all.

1699
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:26,039
Speaker 2: M David of.

1700
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:48,279
Speaker 4: Yall watch Talking and Live Sundays at one pm Central.

1701
01:32:48,359 --> 01:32:51,359
Visit tiny dot c c slash y T t H

1702
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:54,840
and call into the show at five one two nine

1703
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,159
nine two four two, or connect to the show online

1704
01:32:57,159 --> 01:33:00,000
at tiny dot c c slash call th H