WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:13.720 Bring out the handle, its superstamped exclusions through the dame 2 00:00:14.919 --> 00:00:16.519 showing out inside. 3 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.719 Hey, everybody, tonight we're debating tradition versus solo scriptura, and 4 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.319 we are starting right now with Jay's opening statement. Thanks 5 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:35.439 for being with us, Jay, The floor is all yours. 6 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:38.439 Okay, just one second. I have one thing I'm pulling 7 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:44.799 up here from something I wrote for opening statement. Here. 8 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.000 Can you give me just one second before we start this. 9 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:51.200 I just needed this one piece of data here for 10 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:52.079 the opening statement. 11 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:55.439 It's you got it, no problem. 12 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:56.799 This is hard to find here. 13 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:59.280 This is a great opportunity for me. I can fill 14 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:01.560 that time easily. Folks. First, if it's your first time 15 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:03.480 here at modern a Debate, I'm your host, Doctor James 16 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.879 Cooon's weary, fully neutral platform, hosting debates on science, religion, 17 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.159 and politics at that subscribe button. As we have many 18 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:12.000 more debates coming up, including at the bottom right of 19 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:16.159 your screen. Debate con eight this summer in Dallas, Texas. 20 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:19.479 We're expecting it to for sure sell out. Check out 21 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:21.639 the tickets link in the description box. It will include 22 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:25.080 debates such as Dnestusuza versus Andrew Wilson, as well as 23 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:30.280 god a logic, apologetics versus Muslim Daniel Haikikachu, and many 24 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:32.680 other debates. Rachel Wilson will be taking on not So 25 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.199 Airdite on the effects of feminism, as well as Andrew 26 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.599 Wilson taking on Loader Box on whether or not Trump 27 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.000 is a fascist. You don't want to miss it. Click 28 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.319 on that link right now. Check out the full debate 29 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:48.439 card and book your travel early. Keep in mind, look 30 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:51.280 at your calendar because before you plan your schedule, you 31 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.280 want to go to this conference. 32 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.120 Ready for you, Jay, if you are, you said, we're 33 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:01.319 doing ten minutes opening, yep, okay, all right. So when 34 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.680 we come to the question of solo scripture versus the 35 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:06.800 question of tradition, the first argument I'm going to make 36 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:11.520 is that the Bible itself, the accepted texts that between 37 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:17.240 Orthodox and most Protestants we agree on those texts themselves, 38 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:20.280 actually point outside of the text. When it comes to 39 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:24.520 the notion of sacred tradition also being the Word of God. 40 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:28.560 All Protestant arguments generally wrest in the assumption that it's 41 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.039 only the written texts that are the Word, and that 42 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:34.159 is not the Word himself, that is a divine person 43 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:38.199 that thus makes themselves known through the medium of written texts, 44 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:41.360 and so if this argument fails, then the entire notion 45 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:44.840 that we only listen to the written texts is refuted 46 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.400 then by the written text themselves. My goal is to 47 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:51.599 then open the minds of everybody here to this foundational 48 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:56.759 Protestant presupposition. There is overwhelming evidence that, for example, from 49 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:00.199 Genesis one up until the time of Moses, the tradition 50 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.080 was passed on orally. So there's nothing inherently flawed or 51 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:07.439 bad necessarily about oral teaching because God was able to 52 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:11.240 preserve the oral teaching from the time of Adam up 53 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.960 to Abraham and up to Moses, and that counts as 54 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.600 several hundreds of years, and so God's providence is not 55 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:19.720 in any way impugned by the fact that it's oral 56 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:23.639 versus something being written. As we move on, when we 57 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:27.040 look at specific examples in the Old Testament, we noticed 58 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:31.839 that the patriarchs author Genesis kept this oral tradition and 59 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.120 then passed it down and then eventually, for example, the 60 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:39.199 time of David, we read in Second Chronicles twenty nine 61 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.000 that he stationed the levites in the House of the 62 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:46.680 Lord with symbols, stringed instruments and harps according to the 63 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.439 commandment of David of God the King's seer, and of Nathan. 64 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:54.360 For thus was the commandment of the Lord by his prophets, 65 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:56.959 the Levites with instruments of David, and the priests with 66 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.639 their trumpets. We do not have any written record of 67 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:03.199 what David commanded concerning these things. Furthermore, it is clear 68 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.120 that David flourished some two hundred and fifty years before 69 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:09.079 the time of King has a Kaya. It must be 70 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.040 argued then that this was David's opinion if you're a Protestant, 71 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:14.279 because we don't know that this was involved in any 72 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.160 written description as far as we can tell, because these 73 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.519 books have actually been lost. But we know that in 74 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.959 the Book of Leviticus, if you read Leviticus ten and eleven, 75 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:27.920 you'll note that native and a bay who are actually 76 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.120 killed for making up how we would worship God. So 77 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:36.160 God doesn't tolerate the idea of Diy making it up worship. Thus, 78 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.480 there had to have been an oral tradition that David 79 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.639 knew or passed down that was the basis for the 80 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:51.399 organizing of this liturgical worship. Also, note that for most 81 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.319 Reformed people or Protestants in general, many of them will 82 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.120 actually make a very similar argument about how we worship 83 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.319 God in the New Testament, for example, the Reforms. And 84 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:01.920 I don't know if this person is a Calvinist or 85 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:04.759 Reformed or not, but many Reformed Baptists or Calvinists have 86 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.800 what they believe as is a regular principle of worship. 87 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:09.639 I'm just using this as an example. Maybe he doesn't 88 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.800 believe in this, but the regulative principle for many Protestant 89 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:16.279 states that you can only do in worship what God 90 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.319 specifically commands and lays down. However, in the New Testament documents, 91 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.319 we do not have any specific pattern of how an 92 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.360 entire worship service is to be conducted. Thus, when we 93 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:31.439 read the Apostolic Fathers, for example, we notice that they 94 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:35.120 do mention the pattern of worship. They speak of the Eucharist, 95 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:38.639 they speak of episcopacy, they speak of deacons, they speak 96 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:43.040 of an altar, all things missing in Protestant churches for 97 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:47.399 the most part. Do we seriously believe that when the 98 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:53.160 New Testament teachers and apostles preached that their preaching wasn't 99 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:56.800 the word of God. Peter himself says, the word of 100 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:00.160 God which was preached to you, showing us that it 101 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:04.399 is not restricted only to the written text. Protestants, for example, 102 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:07.319 will cite Isaiah eight and say to the law and 103 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.920 to the testimony. But many commentators, including Protestants, will note 104 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:16.079 that this testimony is also including the oral tradition. We 105 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:17.759 read in the Old Testament about the Book of the 106 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:19.920 Wars of the Lord, the Book of the Just, we 107 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:22.480 read about the Book of Nathan the Prophet. We read 108 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:24.800 about all kinds of books and proverbs and things that 109 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:28.639 were written down which were not ultimately included in the 110 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:35.720 canonical texts. For example, if we look at the case 111 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:39.079 of the Visions of Adom the Prophet against Jeroboam, we 112 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.560 have a true prophet prophesying against the evil king Jeroboam. 113 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.959 This is obviously from the Lord. But where is the 114 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.920 written law about this prophetic incident? Note also that the 115 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:53.600 undisputed Old Testament text itself is directing us to these 116 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:57.680 books as references. On the Protestant model, we would have 117 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:01.399 the infallible referencing something foul, because most of them will say, 118 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:03.759 if they admit that the oral teaching is the word 119 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:05.959 of God, it was somehow fallible. But now we have 120 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:10.800 the infallible written referencing the fallible. This is absurd. Again, 121 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:13.519 we see that they did not have solo scriptura in 122 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:19.240 the Old Testament, since Isaiah eight twenty to twenty one 123 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.439 mandates also going to the testimony. But all of these prophecies, 124 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.839 for example Obadiah or others, are called the word of 125 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.560 the Lord. Rather the written law and the oral testimony 126 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.200 of the prophets was considered the word of the Lord. 127 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:35.879 And thus it is because the Word is a person. 128 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.600 As Jesus says to the Pharisees, usearch the scriptures because 129 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:41.159 you think that is in them the of eternal life. 130 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.519 When is theay the batter witness of me? Protestants are 131 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:47.960 actually judaized heretics who rely on a Judaic Talmudic interpretation 132 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:51.919 and understanding of texts as if they are themselves divine 133 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.279 or God. And I'm not saying they're not inspired, because 134 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:56.600 I do believe inspiration. But the Orthodox Church does not 135 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.120 believe that the texts themselves are God. They are the 136 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:06.399 Bible is a created medium of transmitting the knowledge of God. 137 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:10.360 It itself is not divine. In the New Testament, we 138 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:15.320 have many examples as well of this same principle. For example, 139 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.519 we are told that John says that if it were 140 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.799 to be collected into one book, you could never collect 141 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.159 everything that Jesus did or said into a book, because 142 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:27.399 it would take all the books in the world. And 143 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:33.639 this is John twenty verse thirty. I assume me that's 144 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:35.279 what John twenty verse thirty says. That there are many 145 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.360 other things that he did and said, and then twenty 146 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.720 one verse twenty five says that all the books in 147 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.600 the world couldn't contain all of this. And then we have, 148 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:47.279 for example, statements that Paul says very clearly to the 149 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.279 Thessalonians and second Thesalonians to keep the oral traditions. It's 150 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.759 a standing command whether I delivered what I delivered to you, 151 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:56.000 whether oral or written. So we have a standing command, 152 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:00.240 according to Saint Paul. First Theessalonians too, Paul said, for 153 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.879 this reason, we thank God without ceasing, because you receive 154 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.080 the word of God which you heard from us. So 155 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:09.159 the oral teaching of the apostles is the word of 156 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:13.320 God as well. This alone really undoes the majority of 157 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:17.240 the out of context and low tier quote minding that 158 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:21.360 most Solar scriptur proponents do. That's why Paul also says 159 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:24.360 to keep the oral traditions, and to Timothy, he says 160 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.240 the second Timoty one thirteen, hold fast the pattern of 161 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:31.000 the sound words you heard from me, that is not 162 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.480 against the scriptures. And certainly when Jesus says the Matthew 163 00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:39.159 twenty three that the scribes and Pharisees create traditions of 164 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:42.480 men that supplant the scriptures. In that same chapter, he 165 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:45.240 also talks about the scribes of Pharisees sitting in the 166 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.279 seat of Moses, and thus they have the authority of Moses. 167 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.039 There's nothing in the Old Testament about moses stolic succession 168 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:53.240 or a seat of Moses. Jesus is referring to a 169 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:58.279 valid Old Testament tradition, and he's rejecting the scribes and 170 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:02.559 Pharisees invalid tradition. As we move into the Early Church, 171 00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:06.360 for example, we learned that the Early Church did not 172 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:10.120 have for many centuries a written New Testament. Texts I 173 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:11.840 have with me here and I can pull it up 174 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.639 if we need to. Multiple canons of scripture amongst the 175 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.879 Church fathers for centuries, and by the fourth century the 176 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:25.240 entire Church east and West West being represented by the 177 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:29.279 Council of Rome under Pope Damasis, including the dutercanonical texts 178 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:32.159 as part of the normative official canon of that time 179 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.919 under the Latin patriarcht and in the East under the 180 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.440 Apostolic Canons. The very last few canons cover the canon 181 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.360 of scripture according to the entire Eastern Church normative for 182 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.159 the East in canon law by the fourth century. Guess 183 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.919 what they include the duter canonical texts. Now, we don't 184 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:49.679 think that it was even solidified at that point, and 185 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.039 many Protestants, including James White in his recent debate with 186 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:56.320 tran Horne, were forced to admit that the canon of 187 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:59.679 the Early Church was incote. It was unformed in the 188 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.480 Early Church for many centuries, was not operating on the 189 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:06.200 principle of solar scripture. Well, if that's the case, then 190 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.919 solo scriptura was not true in those centuries, And if 191 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:11.720 it wasn't true in those centuries, it's actually the Protestants 192 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.360 that are adding faking gay new doctrines and teachings of 193 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.000 men because the Church didn't have solo scriptura as its 194 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:23.840 operating principle. Beyond that, also, I would add that when 195 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.480 you get into the history of the foundation of the 196 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.399 formation of the canon, you'll note that many Protestant scholars, 197 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.440 and I when I was Protestant, I read all these texts, 198 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.240 for example Lee McDonald who lists all the different canons 199 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:40.360 of Scripture according to bearing Church fathers or F. F. Bruce, 200 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.159 they all recognized the role that liturgy and tradition played 201 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:45.919 in the formation of the canon. And so I will 202 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.080 end it with saying that, according to this person that 203 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.000 is that I'm debating with, he has no argument for 204 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.120 why we ought to accept as normative the Protestant canon. 205 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.799 Much for that opening, and we're going to kick it 206 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:04.960 over to Pastor Jonathan. But first, as you can see 207 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.879 the bottom right of your screen, Modern Day Debate has 208 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:09.840 launched on TikTok. If you hang out on TikTok, check 209 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:12.120 out our link pinned at the top of the chat 210 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.360 end in the description box, where you can find clips 211 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.960 from Juicy Debates. With that, we're gonna kick it over 212 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.159 to Pastor Jonathan for his opening as well. The floor 213 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:19.919 is all yours. 214 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.799 Thank you so much James for allowing me to be 215 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.960 on the show and to represent the Bible, the Word 216 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.200 of God. And I want to start with a verse 217 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:33.519 in Colossians chapter one, verse number eighteen. The Bible says 218 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:35.759 about Christ that he is the head of the body 219 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.279 the Church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, 220 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.799 that in all things he might have the pre eminence. Really, 221 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:47.840 this debate is around authority and understanding that Christ is 222 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.240 the final authority. If Christ is the head of the Church, 223 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.399 then we ought to obey Christ and appeal to Christ. 224 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:57.759 Since Christ is not physically with us on earth, he 225 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:00.440 has left us obviously his word, and we can reference 226 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:04.159 his word. If Christ is infallible, then his word is infallible. 227 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:09.000 Therefore we appeal to Scripture as being infallible. And so 228 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:13.799 if you elevate tradition, if you elevate church authority to 229 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.360 be on par with or usurp the authority of Christ, 230 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.600 well now we no longer have the correct body. The 231 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:23.000 correct body is Christ as the head, meaning that we 232 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.240 have to have Scripture as our final authority. 233 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:27.600 The question is what is scripture? 234 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:31.519 Of course, the Bible teaches that God's word is forever, 235 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.080 O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven. The Bible 236 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:36.080 teaches that there's no such thing as a time when 237 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.840 the word came into existence. The word has always existed 238 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.320 in the beginning. Was the word and the Word was 239 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:42.600 with God, and the Word was God. There's never been 240 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.519 a time when which the Word did not exist. The 241 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:49.679 Word of God is eternal, and so therefore, just like 242 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:54.000 God is eternal, we only appeal to that which is divine, 243 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:57.159 to that which is eternal, to that which is unchanging. 244 00:14:57.639 --> 00:14:59.200 We look at church tradition, when. 245 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.440 We look at what it's Catholic or Orthodox, these are 246 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:06.159 constantly changing. And really, if we really think about this argument, 247 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.919 we both agree that the sixty six books that I hold. 248 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.360 In my King James Bible are the word of God. 249 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:14.840 Really, I just disagree with him and think that the 250 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.039 Apocrypha is the word of God. I deny that it 251 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:19.240 is on par with scripture. It could be used for 252 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.879 historical understanding, but it's not the word of God. I 253 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:26.120 disagree that his church is infallible, as we see many 254 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:29.879 churches in the New Testament having serious error, not just 255 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:33.120 a little bit of error, serious error. At no point 256 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.480 do we see any church being infallible. There's no verse 257 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.519 teaching of this infallible church. There's no teaching about his 258 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:44.039 specific Orthodox church. There's no table of contents to tell 259 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:50.120 us which church to pick out of the Orthodox Coptic, Russian, Greek, Roman. 260 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.960 Catholic, so we basically just have to trust them. 261 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.240 But at the end of the day, the churches are 262 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.679 not the one that has the authority. 263 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:59.159 It's the Scripture that has the authority. 264 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.840 Scripture gives a authority to the church is the church's 265 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.320 responsibility to simply receive and recognize God's word. 266 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:08.879 One of the tests that the Bible gives us about 267 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:09.840 knowing what God's. 268 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.279 Word is is that the Scripture teaches that we will 269 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:13.759 hear the voice of the shepherd. 270 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.840 Jesus Christ said my sheep, hear my voice. He says 271 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.279 that we're not going to follow a stranger. Another test 272 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:21.559 the Bible gives us in the Book of Deuteronomy is 273 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:24.159 that when someone presumes to speak a word in the 274 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.080 name of the Lord, and it comes not to pass 275 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.759 to disregard that particular word. So we understand that the 276 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:32.080 word of God is going to match reality. It's going 277 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:36.240 to match what divine voice that we hear in the scripture. 278 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.759 It's going to have internal consistency. The Bible teaches the 279 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.600 scripture cannot be broken. The Bible tells us we're supposed 280 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.919 to compare spiritual with spiritual, so you know, there's several 281 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.080 different tests that we could employ to understand what truly 282 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:49.320 is the word of God. 283 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:50.759 At the end of the day. 284 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.159 You know, people will scoff at the idea that the 285 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.480 Scripture has this divine voice. But we can tell the 286 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:02.759 difference between Doctor Seuss and Shakespeare. There's a gigantic difference 287 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.720 between these two texts. And if God were to write 288 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:08.119 a book or to speak, there would be a gigantic 289 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.680 difference between God's word and man's word. Therefore, it is 290 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:17.000 evident when God speaks as opposed to when man speaks, 291 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.119 the sixty six books of the Bible that we have 292 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.480 has the divine voice. It's recognized through God's people, through 293 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.680 the Holy Ghost, my sheep hear my voice. And really 294 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:32.799 we talk about Protestant or Orthodox or Catholic, we all agree. 295 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:34.599 On the sixty six books being scripture. 296 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.400 Where we disagree is that Jay believes that the apocrypha 297 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:38.960 is scripture. 298 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.000 I don't believe that. He believes that his church is infallible. 299 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.240 I don't believe that, and I believe he has no 300 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.160 verses to point to that. Why would I disagree with 301 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:54.680 their apocrypha? Well, it has not been received by all Christians. Historically, 302 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.559 it is not have the divine voice, it was not 303 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.519 preserved in the Hebrew, It's not in eternally consistent. It 304 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:07.880 has many different historical and factual errors in the Apocryphy specifically. Additionally, 305 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.000 it teaches a weird salvation. It teaches that alms giving 306 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:15.759 purges away from every sin. This doesn't match reality, and 307 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.039 it doesn't produce the type of fruit that the King 308 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.440 James Bible has produced. The Bible says by their fruits, 309 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.839 she shall know them. The Bible teaches that wisdom is 310 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.079 justified of her children. We can see the evident fruit 311 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.079 of the King James Bible of those who have adhere 312 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.640 to Scripture alone and put that at the top of 313 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:36.000 their church. What's interesting is the Protestant Reformation is not 314 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:40.440 defined by one singular individual, and we don't appeal to 315 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.559 one particular individual. 316 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:43.599 We don't have a cult leader like Joseph. 317 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:47.920 Smith or perhaps Muhammad or other false religions. We simply 318 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.160 all read the scripture and come to the same conclusions. 319 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.000 And what is that conclusion? That Christ is the head 320 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.480 of the Church. Of course, why did the Protestant Reformation 321 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:58.920 even happen. The Catholic Church had corrupted itself. It was 322 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.519 teaching new doctrines. Jay will even agree with me on this. 323 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.359 And when you looked at Scripture, the plain reading was 324 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.319 in clear contradiction to the Catholic Church. 325 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:07.079 So who's right? 326 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.920 Well, Jesus Christ told us that the Pharisees they had 327 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:11.839 elevated their tradition over the word of God. 328 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:13.920 And he said, you full well reject the word of 329 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.559 God that you may keep your own tradition. That's what 330 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.000 the Catholics have done, and that's what the Orthodox have 331 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.000 done in the same way, adding things to the text. 332 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:23.720 So at the end of the day, we have to 333 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.640 ask the question, who's the final authority minus scripture? Jays 334 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:32.279 would be a bunch of Orthodox bishops or some council 335 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:34.559 or some synod. At the end of the day, he 336 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:39.000 might try to claim that our belief is circular. But 337 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.319 at the end day you have to appeal to something. 338 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.920 I appeal the scriptures my final authority. Jay appeals to 339 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:46.920 his Orthodox Church. 340 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.440 How did he come to that conclusion? 341 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:52.440 I have no idea, because the Bible doesn't teach it whatsoever, 342 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.880 and so therefore I reject it. Why do I come 343 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:57.519 to the conclusion about the Bible well, it tells me 344 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.079 it's the word of God. I've tested it, proved it, 345 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.759 and it's been evident to me that it is the 346 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:05.960 word of God. When I compare other texts, they don't 347 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:07.440 pass the exact same tests. 348 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:10.799 You got it. Thank you very much for that opening 349 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:12.960 as well, folks, if you didn't know, Modern at Debate 350 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:17.480 has a discord joined sixteen thousand active members in the 351 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:19.880 debate arena at the Modern Databate discord pinned at the 352 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:22.759 top of the chat end in the description box. Right now, 353 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.519 with that, we're gonna jump into the open dialogue. Gentlemen, 354 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:27.839 I'm gonna give you a ton of freedom. If it 355 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.039 gets to be where there's too much speaking over each other, 356 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.920 I'm going to jump in and maybe make it ninety 357 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.480 second responses, But otherwise the floor is yours. 358 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.599 Sorry. Ah. Yeah. It's interesting because all I heard was 359 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.599 a series of personal subjective appeals and fallacies and begging 360 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:48.480 the question about what was in question, which is in 361 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.720 my opening statement, I said that you had no basis 362 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.880 for any normative authority to bind you or anyone else 363 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.920 to the Protestant canon. And it's also interesting that Paul himself, 364 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.200 in first tim of the three fifteen says the church 365 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.440 is the pillar and ground of truth, which is the 366 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:06.519 very thing that you denied, saying that, No, it's the 367 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.240 written texts that are the pillar and ground of truth. 368 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:14.640 Why does Paul say that it's the church? Am I 369 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.759 allowed to engage with you on that? Obviously? If I'm 370 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:18.279 asking you a. 371 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.039 Question, Yeah, I don't believe that the scripture is the 372 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:22.680 pillaring ground. 373 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:25.799 It just is the truth. The normative authority is scripture. 374 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:28.799 So what's the difference between being the pillar and ground 375 00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:29.799 of truth and being the truth? 376 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.039 The pillar holds up the truth and it Oh, so 377 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.480 the church holds up the scriptures. It of course points 378 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.359 to the scriptures. Guards the scriptures. It's supposed to elevate 379 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.240 the scriptures. It's supposed to magnify this way. 380 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.759 So the church holds up the scriptures. So the church 381 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:45.839 supports the thing that you says the ultimate truth. 382 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.799 Absolutely believe. I believe that the church is a necessary function. 383 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:55.640 I believe tradition is acceptable from the top down. 384 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.960 Underneath is it underneath the thing that you said was 385 00:21:59.000 --> 00:21:59.599 the foundation? 386 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:02.240 It is subject to the scripture? 387 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.519 Guess no, No, subject to is the opposite of being 388 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.039 the foundation and pillar of you don't know what that means. 389 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.400 Obviously, you could use these analogies in two different ways. No, 390 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.920 they're opposite a hierarchy and then of course the Bible foundation. 391 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.799 There're two different analogies. You could use them. 392 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.880 No, they're not. This analogy says that the pillar and 393 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.759 ground of truth is the Church. It's the opposite of 394 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:27.279 what you just said. And you said, well, you can 395 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:29.599 say it both ways. Where does it Why do you 396 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:30.079 say that? 397 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.720 Obviously, the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the our foundation, 398 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.960 He's the chief cornerstone. But another place the Bible, God 399 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.519 is the king of kings and Lord of lords. 400 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:41.039 So is a time? What does that have to do 401 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.359 with these two different analogies. What does that have to 402 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:46.559 do with proving that the canon that you have is 403 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:47.480 the accurate canon. 404 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:52.400 The reason why I believe the Bible is the word 405 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:53.200 of God is because of. 406 00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:56.200 What I asked you that you have the right canon. 407 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:57.880 I know you think it's the word of God. How 408 00:22:57.880 --> 00:22:59.359 do you know that you have the right canon? When 409 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:01.359 Paul says it's the Church that is appearing ground of 410 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.079 truth that produces the Bible and decides what goes into it. 411 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:07.960 Again, you're you're you're you're not listening to what I'm saying. 412 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.119 If you're not in the book, if every single book 413 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.839 in the Bible has a divine voice, then that is 414 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:13.799 how I decide you're. 415 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:17.359 Begging the question. You're begging the question because I'm asking 416 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.960 you how you know that the sixty six books is 417 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:22.960 the limit of the divine voice and not our canon. 418 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.039 Because no other book matches the divine voice. 419 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.279 So if I hold out, so that's a fallacy of 420 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.039 self evidence, and it's begging the questions. So because you 421 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.440 think that the Protestant canon is the self evident manifest thing, 422 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.000 when that's what I'm asking you, how do you know 423 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.759 that that's the case? You said, because of attest to 424 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:39.759 that self evident manifest thing. That's a fallacy of self evidence. 425 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:41.359 So wait a minute. 426 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.680 If Christ is infallible and his word is infallible, how. 427 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.480 Could I appeal to that which is fallible. 428 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.640 To authenticate something that's infallible, as is the head? If 429 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.319 Christ is infallible, not listening to the authenticating you believe 430 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:57.720 something to be self authenticating. 431 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:01.519 The opening statement showed you that the written texts are 432 00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:03.880 not the only thing called the Word of God. So 433 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.720 you just keep begging them. You didn't prove that you 434 00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:10.640 can claimed multiple did you not listen to the You 435 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.519 just the Bible? You're just calling in a misinterpretation. Paul says, 436 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:17.720 the things that you heard from me in the presence 437 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.759 of many witnesses. Pass those things on as sound doctrine. 438 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:22.279 Peter says, the word of God. 439 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.359 Okay, so could you could they all tell them something 440 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:30.559 that those doctrine but not those Yeah, Paul could say, hey, 441 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.000 here's how you should scripture. 442 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:35.880 So I'm not asking is it scripture? I'm asking you 443 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.599 is their oral word of God? The Word of God 444 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:42.480 can be spoken out loud? Obviously? Does that they're teaching oral? 445 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.240 That's not just written texts. 446 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.920 There's teaching and then there's a scripture. If I quote scripture, 447 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:49.039 I'm quoting the word of God. 448 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.440 If ill call why are you dissimulating? Why does Paul 449 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.640 and Peter call their oral teaching the word of God? 450 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:55.319 They don't. 451 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.960 There's no Peter says, the word of reaching the Bible. 452 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.519 If I get or preach what the Bible says, that 453 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.240 doesn't make my words the word the book of acts. 454 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.599 Paul says he taught for three years day and night, 455 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.559 and he tells Timothy in the letter to pass on 456 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.160 all the things that you heard from me in the 457 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.599 presence of many witnesses. So you just refuted yourself. Okay, 458 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:24.880 he's teaching the scripture. He didn't say that for three years. 459 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:30.640 He just recited verses. Okay, how about first Christian God 460 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.680 and the subject? Did he just cite verses for three 461 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:34.200 years straight? 462 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:35.880 Obviously? 463 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:40.240 He reasoned out of the scriptures, Oh, there's also oral teaching. 464 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.160 That's the word of God. Thank you. As Peter says, 465 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.160 the word preach to you, how do you do mouth? 466 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.200 I never said. I never said that. He reasoned, Yes, 467 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.680 you did. You said, they're just teaching scriptures. They're interpreting 468 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:54.279 the scripture. That's the point if Paul is teaching for 469 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:58.880 their interpretation is not the scripture. It's the oral teaching. 470 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.000 That's the Word of God. Well, that's the point of 471 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:02.200 what these says. 472 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:04.440 The Word of God is also oral teaching. 473 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:07.680 I'm showing you in these passages you haven't shown a 474 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.799 single word the Gospel preached to you first Peter one, 475 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:15.039 twenty three and twenty four. Okay, lot's got there, Paul, 476 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.960 I just quoted it. I don't have to go there. 477 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.920 I just quoted it for you. Paul says. Therefore, brethren, 478 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.400 stand fast and hold the traditions that you were taught, 479 00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:29.480 whether by word or are written epistles. Second, that's fifteen. 480 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:31.880 Let's ask this question, how do you know that your church? 481 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.240 No? Why are you doing a tea? Why are you 482 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.160 doing a two quoque when I'm asking you? Is there 483 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:39.640 oral teaching that's the word of God or not? There's 484 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.079 no example of that in scripture. I just gave you three. 485 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:44.039 Do you want more? Okay? 486 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:46.920 So first Peter, chapter one, verse twenty five. But the 487 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:50.240 Word of the Lord endureth forever. That's the scripture. And 488 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.920 this is the word which by the gospel's preached unto you. 489 00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.359 He's preaching the scripture. He's preaching the word about. 490 00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:02.359 He's just citing because endure and the Bible. 491 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.279 Alright, I gotta jump ahrd one second just to I 492 00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.839 have to go into ninety minute or ninety second responseible. 493 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.519 No, let's do that, because this is too stupid. 494 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:13.519 Okay, we'll give you a pastor Jonathan if you want 495 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:15.319 to finish that thought. Oh God, the timer said for 496 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:16.519 you for ninety seconds. 497 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.119 First Peter, chapter one, verse twenty five. But the word 498 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.160 of the Lord endure forever. That debunks Jay's point that 499 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.599 he earlier stated the Word of God has created, it's 500 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.759 always existed, and says in this is the word? 501 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.319 What word? The word of the Lord? Whatever was already 502 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.759 preached that endured forever. You can't say that Peter's words 503 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.119 endured forever, or that Peter existed before this. He's talking 504 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.240 about the scripture, which by the Gospel is preached unto you, 505 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.119 this in no way teaches that whenever Peter or Paul 506 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:46.440 get up and explain what the Bible means, or they 507 00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.359 give the sense of the reading that that is scripture, 508 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:50.680 then there would be no differentiation. How could you even 509 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.160 differentiate between oral and the scripture if they're all just 510 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.759 quote scripture, if they're all the word of God, how 511 00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:58.200 do you know what's the word of God? 512 00:27:58.240 --> 00:27:58.720 At that point? 513 00:27:58.759 --> 00:27:59.920 And if it is the word of God, why don't 514 00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:01.559 we have it written down? Why don't we have it 515 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:01.880 for us? 516 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:04.079 Because Jesus Christ said, men does not live by bread alone, 517 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:05.200 but by every word of God. 518 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.039 If it's truly the word of God, then why don't 519 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:07.480 we have it? 520 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:13.000 Are you a fundamentally stupid person? Are you not listening 521 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.799 to what I'm telling you. I didn't say that the 522 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.480 Word of God is only a creature. I said that 523 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.359 the written texts are created. And that's why Jesus says this, 524 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.480 use search the scriptures because you think that it is 525 00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:26.680 in them that you have eternal life. When it's they 526 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.519 that testify to me. The Word of God is a person. 527 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:31.920 He's the second person of the Trinity. I said that 528 00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:35.240 the written texts, which are sometimes called Word of God, 529 00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:37.960 are a manifestation and revelation of the Word of God. 530 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.400 They are created. The Bible is a creature. It's a 531 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.039 created thing. It's not eternal. Sorry, I don't know. If 532 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.119 you're a Muslim you think I'm finished. 533 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:48.319 I'm not finished. 534 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.319 I'm not finished. Furthermore, you keep equivocating because you think 535 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.640 that every time it says Word of God, it's only written. 536 00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.759 And I'm showing you that there's two mediums of Word 537 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.160 of God God. One that is oral when the apostles preach, 538 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:06.079 which they identify as the Word of God, and another 539 00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:09.359 which is the written which is also the what they 540 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:12.640 are interpreting. So when Paul teaches for three years, day 541 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.279 and night in Ephesus, you admitted he's interpreting it that 542 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.240 is identified as a tradition and the word that Timothy 543 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:22.960 must pass on. And you keep deflecting away from that. 544 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.079 I haven't deflected away again. 545 00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:29.200 You make a distinction the scriptures don't make between Christ 546 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.319 and the word of God. I gave you Jesus Christ, 547 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:35.400 Jesus says, what. 548 00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:40.519 Does it mean? Jump in is in terms of Jay. 549 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.119 If you handed over to him with a question, then 550 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.880 I got to give him a full chance to respond. 551 00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.759 Go ahead, you search, am I asking the question? Now 552 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:54.039 go for it. You search the scriptures because you think 553 00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:55.759 that it is in them that you have eternal life, 554 00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.160 when it is they that bear witness of me. Thus 555 00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.200 there is obviously a distinction betwe between the written texts 556 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.000 and the eternal word of God, who is the second 557 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.759 person of the Trinity. The second person of the Trinity 558 00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.599 is not a book, it's not a text. It's a person, 559 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:13.240 and they are obvious. 560 00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.720 Passage ninety seconds for Jonathan and Jonathan just to let 561 00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:18.359 you know, if you if you yield it over your 562 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.000 ninety second, fine, then if you want you can, But 563 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:23.799 other ways you got the full ninety seconds. 564 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:25.039 Yeah. 565 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.559 The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the Word. The 566 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.880 Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We also have 567 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:34.000 the Bible making it obviously clear that Jesus Christ is 568 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.000 the Word of God, since it's literally written on his thigh. 569 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.960 Jay is making a distinction that the scripture does not make. 570 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.200 I asked you a passage. 571 00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:44.240 We're still in his We're still in his ninety. 572 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.480 Seconds obvious the scriptures. 573 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.039 Of course, we believe that the Word of God is 574 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:50.680 also the Father speaking. 575 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:51.559 It's God's word. 576 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:56.519 But there's a unique there's a unique overlap between the 577 00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:59.960 Word of God and Jesus Christ that the Bible clearly articulates. 578 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:02.480 You can take one verse and try to pretend like 579 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.119 that the Bible doesn't teach that Jesus Christ is the Word. 580 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.920 But that's what the Bible says, and repeatedly in multiple places. 581 00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:10.920 What is why is it called? Why is he called 582 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.359 the word if he's not the word? I mean, this 583 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.079 is so silly. This is an equivocation fallacy. So you 584 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:20.519 understand what equivocation is. Obviously you don't you understand what equivocation. 585 00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:23.480 Is, sure making two things equivalent that aren't truly equivalent. 586 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:25.079 I understand the point that you're. 587 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:28.359 Trying and John agree In John one, when it says 588 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.079 that the word became flesh and dwelt among us, is 589 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:33.519 that the Bible? Or is that the incarnation. 590 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.960 Jesus Christ is a person. I'm not going to disagree 591 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:37.839 in John one. 592 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.160 Is in John one, stop man, you don't answer any questions. 593 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.200 In John one when it says the word became flesh 594 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.039 and dwelt among us, is that talking about the Bible, 595 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:48.599 because on your view it has to be one of 596 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:50.720 the other. Or is it talking about him taking human nature? 597 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:53.400 It's the person Jesus Christ, but he is the word 598 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:53.799 as well. 599 00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:58.680 I'm not asking that. What is it when it's to 600 00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.200 say thank you? So it's not talking about the Bible there, Right, 601 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.079 I believe that Jesus Christ is the Word of God, 602 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.119 so I know you believe that. I'm not asked. You 603 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:11.759 can't things, and John, I'm not separating. I'm demonstrating that 604 00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:15.559 there's a distinction between the incarnation of the word becoming 605 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.079 flesh and his message in the written texts. And you 606 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.720 just admitted that that's talking about the incarnation. So you're 607 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:23.839 admitting that word doesn't always refer to the Bible. 608 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:28.400 Right, word could have different contexts, I understand, but it 609 00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.039 can also have the context that I clearly illustrated. 610 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.079 I never denied it mean Jay. 611 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.359 When it says on his thigh the Word of God, 612 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:36.960 what does that mean? 613 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:40.880 He is this? He is the logos, the Word of 614 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.359 God from all eternity. So you're that the Bible doesn't 615 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:49.039 make You just admitted the distinction. What are you talking about? 616 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.079 You just admitted that word doesn't always refer to the 617 00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:53.480 Bible or the written text. That's all I have to 618 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:57.839 demonstrate to show you that in a particular you keep 619 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.599 making Just saying that it's the different context doesn't answer 620 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.799 this question. The word became flesh welts among us. You said, 621 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.119 that's referring to the incarnation. So word there is not 622 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.319 directly referencing or referring to the written text of scripture. Correct. 623 00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:14.359 Obviously, sometimes when the Bible is talking about the Word 624 00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:15.480 of the Lord, it could be referring to just the 625 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.920 scripture that we have written. 626 00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.759 Down and nobody is referring to the person. 627 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.880 But you're trying to make a distinct and say these 628 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.880 are two completely different. 629 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.440 They always uh is the is the Bible a written 630 00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:26.599 created text? 631 00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:30.759 The Bible was delivered in part to man. But the Bible, 632 00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:33.160 Bible ever existent, it's eternal. I believe the Word of 633 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:33.759 God is eternal. 634 00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:36.319 It's always a Bible, not the second person of the God. 635 00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:39.319 That you think the Bible is eternal. Yes, so you're 636 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:41.079 a polytheist because you believe in the Father of the 637 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:42.519 Son and the Holy Spirit and a book that you're 638 00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:43.039 a Muslim. 639 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.319 No, because the Bible teaches the Father of the Word 640 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:45.960 and the Holy Ghost. 641 00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:48.480 These three are one. There's there's three that you just admitted. 642 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.480 You just admitted that John one makes a distinction between 643 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.640 the eternal person of the logos. 644 00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:59.559 Sometimes the text is telling us the hand, dude, is 645 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:01.559 this book in my hand? It's a living The Word 646 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:02.359 of God is living. 647 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:06.480 Is this a creation? No, It's always existed. So you're 648 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.320 an idolatry. You believe that this is an uncreated book. 649 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.039 I don't. I don't idolize the book in my hand? 650 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:13.880 Is it eternal? Where was this before the creation? 651 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.559 That physical book is not physical? 652 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:18.639 Book? Made a distinction, thank you. So you made a distinction, 653 00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:20.880 which is the very distinction I'm trying to make the 654 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.480 Word of God from all eternity. Is the second person 655 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:26.880 of attorney the logos. This is a created thing that 656 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.000 came into being. It's not eternal. Are you the stupid? 657 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.760 The physical book that you hold in your hands, the 658 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.840 words inside of it are the Bible is a physical book. 659 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:44.280 Okay, the physical body of Jesus came into existence in 660 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:48.280 the incarnation. But Jesus is not created being just because 661 00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:49.719 he has manifested himself that. 662 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:54.199 I argue, you're making straw men in creation. 663 00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:57.320 The Word of God was manifested in a different times. 664 00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:00.079 Shut up. I never argued that the second person of 665 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:03.440 the Trinity was a creature. I said that he is, 666 00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:09.239 that it was created. He's yeah. You keep equivocating between 667 00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:12.519 uses of word. It doesn't always refer to the second 668 00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.960 person the Trinity. Sometimes it's referring to a written text. 669 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.760 I believe that. That's why my argument shows you that 670 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:23.519 the apostles say the oral teaching is also the word 671 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:26.400 of God, the word of God preached to you. So 672 00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:28.800 do you actually think that when Paul was teaching for 673 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.400 three years straight in Ephesus Day and Night, that he 674 00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:35.320 only cited scripture verses. I believe he only appealed to 675 00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.880 scripture verses as the scripture, but he Obviously the reading 676 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.079 not scripture. It doesn't I know it's not scripture. It's 677 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:43.840 the oral. 678 00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:47.440 Tradition Anthean's chapter seven as his personal opinion. Obviously, not 679 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.360 everything that that the apostle Paul said with scripture. 680 00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.639 Does to me. I want you to restate the argument, 681 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:55.880 because I don't even think you're capable of doing that. 682 00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.159 I am arguing that Paul taught for three days or 683 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:01.679 three years, day and night in Ephesus, and in the 684 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:04.880 letters to Timothy, he commands Timothy to pass on everything 685 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.960 that he heard from Paul. Is that only written texts? 686 00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:09.840 I have nothing. 687 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:13.320 I have no problem with traditions or oral teachings being 688 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:17.960 passed down. That's not in compliance with the scripture. You're 689 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.599 just what you think. 690 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:21.559 Is scripture or whether you think that works or not. 691 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.639 I'm asking you, does Paul command Timothy to pass on 692 00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:29.320 everything that he heard Paul teach? Sure? Okay, thank you? 693 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:33.039 So Paul was teaching the word of God? Correct? Paul 694 00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:37.719 preached the word of God? Okay? Orly's he spake out 695 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.760 loud the scriptures that I hold in my hand. So 696 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.079 you keep equivocating because you know that he's interpreting those texts. 697 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:43.559 You don't think so. 698 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.039 I don't think his interpretation is the is divine or infallible. 699 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:50.039 But at the end of the day, obviously the scriptures are. 700 00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:54.599 Paul can have opinion because I haven't said. In First Corindiance, 701 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.599 chapter seven, he wasn't even sure if his opinion was right. 702 00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.320 He said, I think I have the spirit of God. 703 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.840 You just keep it in a separate matter because tradition 704 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:06.280 can be wrong. Paul could be wrong. Paul is wrong 705 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.079 in parts of the New Testament is wrong, and parts 706 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:09.920 of Paul is wrong. 707 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:11.679 This is wrong in parts of the Jestment. 708 00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:15.360 How is your church in? So you're saying the New 709 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:17.519 Testament churches were wrong. You're just said that the New 710 00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.840 Testament has teachings that are wrong Paul. Yes, of course 711 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:27.039 these people lying or almost doctrine what Jezebel teaches. You said, 712 00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:28.920 is it right? Paul wrong? 713 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:30.719 He said that things sacrifice on the devils. 714 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.639 That said, Paul has things wrong. 715 00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:35.400 Paul was wrong at one point he was. He was 716 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.599 trying to get people do so now you don't even 717 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.000 agree with Paul. What are you going to do if 718 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.280 Paul's teachings are scripturing? It's just a history book. It's 719 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:44.480 not telling us what's right. It's just telling us what happened. 720 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.199 There's things that they did in the Book of Acts 721 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:48.440 that were wrong. What Peter did was wrong and he 722 00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:50.159 was rebuked by the apostle Paul. 723 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:53.119 No, I'm talking about teachings because Paul is commanding the 724 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:58.679 church at Thessalonika. Does this even have to do tradition 725 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:01.400 over the top of the Paul is commanding the oral 726 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:04.199 tradition that he taught to the Thessalonians and to Timothy 727 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.440 at Ephesus to pass on those teachings. Are you saying 728 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.719 that those are wrong? I believe that what we have 729 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:13.440 in scripture is right. Are you saying any oral teachings 730 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:16.760 that never asked? Why you're not answering sized I don't 731 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:18.360 know what all he taught? How can I know what 732 00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:20.960 he taught at every single It doesn't matter what three 733 00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:23.360 years I'm asking you, should he have taught that? Does 734 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.800 he say that? Does he say keep my oral traditions? Yes, 735 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.920 the traditions that that he doesn't have your review. You're 736 00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:33.800 just begging the question, how do you even know that? 737 00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.559 You just said you don't know what the world traditions were, 738 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:37.880 So how do you know that they're not in a chord. 739 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.840 Obviously everything should be tested with scripture. But you just 740 00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.119 you give tradition. You just got caught. You just said 741 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:49.599 you don't know what the oral traditions were, So then 742 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:51.960 how can you say that they're not You don't know 743 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.599 if they're in I said, I can't know everything. The 744 00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:56.599 apostle A taught, no, we're not. Now you're deflecting again. 745 00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:00.360 You know everything the apostle talk. Why that's quotque said 746 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:05.320 specifically the oral traditions? How do you know that they're 747 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.440 not right? If you don't know what they were, it's 748 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.239 irrelevant to the conversation. It is irrelevant. It's all I 749 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.719 have is the scripture. It's the New Testament text about 750 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:19.199 oral tradition. How could it be irrelevant? Because who knows 751 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:20.599 what it is? What is it? What is it? 752 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:20.679 Then? 753 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.639 How do you know the world traditions? If nobody and 754 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:25.079 if you don't know, how do you know what's wrong? 755 00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:30.280 You're arguing about a hypothetical you made the ridiculous. You 756 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:33.800 contradicted yourself. You give me one example when you contradiction 757 00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:36.000 to that. I'm not going to let it go because 758 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.840 you contradict yourself you said didn't contradict anything, Yes you did. 759 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:41.079 You said that we don't know what the old tradition is, 760 00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:42.360 and so how do you know that it's wrong? 761 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:48.360 Okay, obviously it's like, how do you know that watermelons 762 00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:50.880 aren't really blue on the inside until you cut them open? 763 00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.360 This is this is a silly. 764 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:56.519 It's not How would I know you admitted Paul was 765 00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:57.880 right or wrong if I don't even know what it is. 766 00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:59.440 You don't know what it is admitted he teaches. No 767 00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:01.559 one knows what this is. We don't have it's not 768 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:04.679 every single thing that that's no. We know. We have 769 00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:07.159 an Orthodox Church, a basis and a tradition. You have 770 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:08.840 no basis at all. So I want to know how 771 00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:11.880 you know it's a scripture, that's what was. You haven't 772 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.599 demonstrated that because it was preserved. Again, I want you 773 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:16.920 to address the contradiction. You said that we don't know 774 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:18.480 what Paul taught, So then how do you know that 775 00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:24.760 it's wrong? Why would I go into a hypothetical something 776 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.719 that doesn't it it's not a hypothetical, it's what you said. 777 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.559 Yes, I still agree. I agree. I don't know what 778 00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:32.480 Paul talk do you? 779 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:33.960 How do you know it's wrong if you don't know 780 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:37.119 the world teaching that Paul gave wrong. This this, this 781 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.960 is like a silly you just you just constantly you 782 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.519 won't even answer the question. It's you're answering nothing. It's 783 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:46.880 your claim. Have you even answered a single question? It 784 00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:51.239 never answer? Did you claim that. 785 00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:52.880 I never claimed that I knew it? 786 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:56.280 Paul talk nos Why are you deflecting? You said two 787 00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:59.119 contradictory things. You said. On the one hand, we don't 788 00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:01.639 know what the oral tradition was that you admitted Paul 789 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.400 passed on. Then you implied that it's wrong and it 790 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:06.760 can be subject to being rejected. I said that the 791 00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:09.079 Apostle Paul did things that are wrong in the book 792 00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:15.000 of the oral tradition. You're talking about anything that I'm saying, 793 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:15.360 I'm not. 794 00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:22.719 I'm not talking about I'm about to be sure you guys. 795 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:28.039 Do you think Paul taught error? He said things that 796 00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.880 were inaccurate, and he the book of in the Book 797 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.280 of Acts, So how do you know that, I don't 798 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:35.840 think anybody is. In fact, do you know that he's 799 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.400 not teaching or elsewhere the. 800 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:40.559 Apostle Paul admits that he taught air for the vast 801 00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:42.840 majority of his life until he came to Christ. 802 00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:46.840 Then, obviously I'm talking about during the period of him 803 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:52.679 being an apostle, not before his life. Obviously, deflecting, deflecting. 804 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:56.440 In the Book of Acts, the apostle Paul is competing. 805 00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:57.360 I'm not asking. 806 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.800 It's wrong, and he corrects himself. In the Book of Galatians, 807 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.480 we have the Apostlele correcting the the apostle Peter in 808 00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:06.559 the Book of Galatians. 809 00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:14.679 How does how does correcting Peter? I'm asking about did 810 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.639 Paul correct Peter? I want to I'm not You want 811 00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:20.559 to answer a question. That's This is the debate answers 812 00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:23.679 zero questions. Of course, you can't even answer simple questions. 813 00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:28.840 Of course correct, of course he corrected Peter. What is apostles? 814 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:29.000 Right? 815 00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.079 Du You made the argument that he taught error? If 816 00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:36.880 they're both apostles, then how did how did the wrong? 817 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:39.440 How did the apostle Paul know that Peter is wrong? 818 00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:41.480 You do not know the difference between moral error and 819 00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:48.000 theological error. They're two different things. The apostle the apostles 820 00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:50.519 can sin. It doesn't mean that they are followable and 821 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:55.000 taught heresies in error. So so nobody ever taught any 822 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:58.199 error in the New testing. The apostles are infallible. They 823 00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:02.079 do not teach error, So are infallible? Show me a 824 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:03.840 verse on that? Can you show me a verse on that? 825 00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:08.440 You don't believe the puzzles are infallible? No? Then, who 826 00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:09.400 compiled the scriptures? 827 00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:12.039 Man? 828 00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:19.360 Churches received the word of God? Timothy received, He's not infallible. 829 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.559 Who compiled them? 830 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:22.440 Christians? 831 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:27.079 What man? Who win tons of Christians throughout? Who win 832 00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:31.159 all of them? I mean, let's just be honest, lost 833 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:32.719 largest multiple churches. 834 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:35.840 New you just lost the epistles. You're passing them around, 835 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:37.639 copying them. 836 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:41.079 You just lost the debate. I haven't lost anything. You can't. 837 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:43.440 You can never tell me how your church is. Who 838 00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.880 shows infallible? Every time I ask you a question? You 839 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:50.679 can't show anything. It's just trust me. Brous our church, 840 00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:53.239 Jesus says. Jesus says in the Gospel of John that 841 00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:54.840 he would be with the church until the end of 842 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.360 the world, and he would lead and guide them into 843 00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:58.559 all truths. So, yes, the apostle, you just appealed the 844 00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.440 scripture and the church told so your solo script that's problem. 845 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:05.000 Gentlemen, hold on, be sure so just so. 846 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.239 Make it clear, your church is infallible because of scripture 847 00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:11.559 nor solo scripture. You literally cannot think outside of the 848 00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:13.360 fact that I appeal to the scriptures doesn't mean to 849 00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:15.000 have your paradigm. 850 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:17.880 Your paradigm is that to to prove that your church 851 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.199 is invaluable appealed the scripture, which is the final authority, because. 852 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:26.079 No scrip no. In my paradigm, the scriptures are and authority. 853 00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:28.679 They're not the only authority. But you can't think outside 854 00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.559 of your paradigm because you don't even understand where the 855 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.199 scriptures came from. And that's why you can't tell me 856 00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:34.760 who put them together? And win tell me Rustle Paul 857 00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:39.599 wrote letters to churches who compiled the canon of scripture 858 00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.519 when there's many different people that have I have a 859 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.960 different lists at different times. Who and okay, so which 860 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:49.760 one is the right one? Obviously I believe the King 861 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.119 James Bible these sixty six. I don't care what you believe. 862 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.000 How do you prove that? How do you prove that 863 00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:55.519 you have the right care? 864 00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:57.760 Are you doing a two quotquoi fallacy? I'm asking you? 865 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.679 Obviously the divine voice I already pointed this. The divine voice. 866 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:05.719 And clearly we have internal consistency. The seven dude to 867 00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:06.559 chronicle books. 868 00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:11.039 The where is the consistent Where is the by all 869 00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:14.800 the Christians? They're not received by everybody that is saved. Additionally, 870 00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:17.480 your church, Where is the divine voice telling you that 871 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:20.320 that's the right canon? So do you believe there's no difference? 872 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.840 Where is the doctor Seuss? Where is the divine voice 873 00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:28.280 telling you that the Protestant canon is correct? The Divine voice? 874 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:30.440 This is what Jesus said. Jesus said, my sheep here 875 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.039 mind Jesus believe. 876 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.519 All right, guys. Just to be sure is that if 877 00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:43.360 he's in mid sentence answering you, j I do have 878 00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:44.800 to give him a chance to finish the sentence. 879 00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.360 How does Timothy know what the scripture is without a 880 00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:49.039 church council? 881 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:51.840 And how did the first three hundred years of Christians 882 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:54.159 know how to even operate? They live died before he 883 00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:56.360 ever had any of your ecumenical counsels. How do they 884 00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.519 know what the scripture is? How did any of the 885 00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.800 Old Testament saints no what the scripture is? 886 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.360 Did you hear me argue that an ecumenical council is 887 00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:05.960 necessary to have scriptures? Did you hear me argue. 888 00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:09.639 That, I'm just want to know you, how do you 889 00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:10.400 know what the scripture is? 890 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:13.039 Did you hear me argue that? Then they explain to me, 891 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.480 how do you know what the scripture is? Jay, Well, 892 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:17.440 we have a lot of reasons and bases to know 893 00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.039 the scripture. One is the tradition of the church first 894 00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:23.039 and foremost, because, for example, with Matthew, I don't know 895 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:26.719 that Matthew the apostle wrote the Gospel of Matthew without 896 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.920 the testimony and tradition of the Apostolic churches that passed 897 00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:32.280 on the Gospel of Matthew, because Matthew doesn't tell me. 898 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:36.119 And if Apostolic authorship is one of the important criteria 899 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:39.360 for Matthew being in the Bible, then I have to 900 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.639 rely on church tradition to even know what the scriptures are. 901 00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:44.519 And that refutes you. 902 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.159 So you said that you got the Bible from your 903 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:50.880 church tradition. How did Timothy know. 904 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.320 That everybody everybody got the Bible from their church tradition. 905 00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:56.519 How does Timothy know what was scripture? 906 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.639 Well, the Old Testament Jews had their own testimony, They 907 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:05.639 had their own groups of men that would meet together. 908 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:09.079 They had a levitelylytical priesthood that was an authority. So 909 00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:11.920 even the Old Testament has recognized authorities. And if you 910 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:14.039 look at doctor bo Branson's debate that I had with 911 00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.639 him and Dale the Protestant, we go into depth about 912 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:20.519 even the Old Testament operated in a sonodal way. So 913 00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:23.599 they had authorities that are called the Levites, thelylitical priesthood, 914 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:26.480 which exited you to the law and bound people's consciences. 915 00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:30.199 So there is an authority structure in Israel and the 916 00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:34.840 attestation that profits have. Absolutely I believe in internal consistency, 917 00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.320 coherency with the rest of the scriptures. If Obadiah starts preaching, 918 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:41.480 he has to preach in continuity with the other texts. 919 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:44.639 But that doesn't prove that it's sola scripture, because, as 920 00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:48.039 I argue O on the testimony, the testimony is the 921 00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:48.639 world tradition. 922 00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:53.800 If the lilitical priesthood at the time of Cristi is 923 00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:57.559 rebuked for having created traditions that are in violation of 924 00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:01.000 the scripture, why is that not still true today? 925 00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.039 Are you asking about rabbinic teachings because Christ is the 926 00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:07.039 superior authority over those priests. 927 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:10.639 He appealed to Scripture he said that you. 928 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.960 Also appealed reject the wall, also appealed to tradition for 929 00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:15.719 your to. 930 00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:16.599 Keep your own tradition. 931 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:22.159 So can these also appealed when the council has I 932 00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:24.599 don't have a problem appealing to the scriptures in my paradigm. 933 00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:27.280 There's nothing wrong with that. But Jesus also appealed to tradition, 934 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:31.239 as I showed you. He appealed to tradition when absolutely 935 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:33.639 show me a verse in the in Matthew three. In 936 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:36.840 Matthew twenty three, he said, the scribes and the Pharisees 937 00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.239 sit in the seat of Moses. Therefore do as they say, 938 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:40.880 and not as they do. Can you show me the 939 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:42.599 Old Testament where there's a seat of Moses that the 940 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:48.719 Pharisees have the leave it? Levitical priesthood was ordained by Moses. 941 00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:52.000 Where is the seat of Moses that the Pharisees authority 942 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:52.960 sees the position? 943 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:53.679 Obviously? 944 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:56.559 Where in the Old Testament is to say that the 945 00:48:56.599 --> 00:49:00.800 Pharisees or any future lineage would have authority from Moses 946 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:03.039 to sit in his Pitical priesthood was, ever, was supposed 947 00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:06.039 to sit in Moses until they obviously rebelled. 948 00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:11.280 Are the Pharisees, levitical priests. No, that's the saddest, well, 949 00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:14.039 not all of them. No, they're coming from Zaida. 950 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:18.639 How the Pharisees, how do they? How do they sit 951 00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:20.960 in the seat of Moses? Moses is not alyitical priest 952 00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:25.920 Levi his brother is the priesthood? How do they sit 953 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:26.440 in Moses? 954 00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:30.400 Obviously, after he died, is no longer in charge. 955 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:33.719 Where in the arts the high priest? Where the okay, 956 00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:36.119 so then where the priesthood? Then? Where in the Old 957 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.079 Testament is there the idea that Moses has a seat 958 00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:40.639 that people occupy. 959 00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:45.360 I already explained it to you that the Moses, they're 960 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.639 ordained by Moses. Moses gave them that authority, and so 961 00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:49.880 they're in the authority that. 962 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:51.159 Where is the seat of Moses? 963 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.599 Moses obviously put the garments on aaron in Where is 964 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:56.599 the priesthood in the. 965 00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:59.159 Ironic priesthood is not Moses? Where is a seat of Moses? 966 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:04.800 What tribe is Moses from? The levitical priesthood is as 967 00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:08.599 the question what tribe is Moses from? It doesn't matter. 968 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.079 Is Moses from Moses? I want to answer the question, 969 00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:16.519 Is it because he's from Leviestion? Is he a livitical 970 00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:19.119 priest or is it his brother? He was the one 971 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.639 that was then charge. What's the named the ironic priesthood? 972 00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:27.280 What's it named after? Aaron became the high priest? Not Moses? 973 00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:30.480 Again, Moses was the authority in the Old Testament. 974 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.760 Thank you, so Jesus appealing to the Old Testament where 975 00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:37.840 you didn't use the word Jesus is not talking about 976 00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:38.760 Jesus taught. 977 00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:40.239 Tradition and you don't have any. 978 00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:44.840 Stop lying, dude, you're such a liar. I'mtthew twenty three. 979 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:48.159 Jesus is talking about the scribes and Pharisees sitting in 980 00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:50.480 the seat of Moses. He doesn't mention the vitical priests. 981 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.679 What is what is the seat of Moses? Then? Exactly, 982 00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:59.440 it's a tradition and it's recognized by all the scholars 983 00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:01.840 that comments on this that it's a tradition that Jesus 984 00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:04.440 referring to that there's a succession of teachers of the 985 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:06.960 law formed under the time of Ezra. So when Ezra 986 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:11.079 created the synagogue system, they had the seat of Moses. 987 00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:14.320 They're not the Levites, do not we know this? Because 988 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:18.079 they had that authority in the diaspora period, So you're. 989 00:51:18.039 --> 00:51:20.599 Just appealing to rabbinic teachings on this too. 990 00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:24.639 No Jesus is appealing to the rabbinic teaching. Any competent 991 00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:28.559 New Testament scholar, even amongst Protestants, will admit that Jesus 992 00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:31.400 in Matthew twenty three is appealing to true Jesus. 993 00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:34.000 Didn't ordain the levitical priesthood, and we're not talking about them. 994 00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:35.840 What are you even talking about? Do you understand the 995 00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:38.960 argument I just made that it's about Ezra forming the 996 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:42.679 synagogue system, which is where you get the scribes and 997 00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:46.280 the Pharisees as authoritative teachers. That is not the levitical priesthood. 998 00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:49.719 How do I know this because in the Diaspora they 999 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.239 had authority to teach the scribes in the Pharisees. 1000 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.039 So why why is Jesus being rebuked for not keeping 1001 00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:56.480 the tradition of the elders? 1002 00:51:58.320 --> 00:51:59.920 Did you not I hear the opening statement I said, 1003 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:03.440 there are traditions that are false that replace the word 1004 00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:09.360 of God good tradition Jeremiah twenty Jeremiah even refers to 1005 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.679 the scribes and the Pharisees attempting to change the law 1006 00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:13.840 and come up with man made traditions. So when Jesus 1007 00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:17.400 in Matthew twenty three makes this argument, he's referring back 1008 00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:19.280 to Jeremiah. 1009 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:20.239 Traditions are right and. 1010 00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:23.559 Wrong because of what the New Testament and the Old 1011 00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:27.079 Testament teach, and the oral tradition of the Church. They 1012 00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:28.199 are all authorities. 1013 00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:30.960 Wait wait, wait, wait, the Old New Testament, but the 1014 00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:32.760 oral traditions of the Church. How do I know an 1015 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:36.239 Old Testament tradition is right or wrong without the Church. 1016 00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:41.559 You don't, because the Church has no I didn't say that. 1017 00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:43.599 That's a false. That's a false and non sequitar I 1018 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:46.480 said the Church has an integral role in interpreting and 1019 00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:50.440 confirming and creating the canon of scripture. That's why you 1020 00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:52.400 can't tell me when the canon even came about or 1021 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:53.960 who did it. You have no idea. You just said's 1022 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.280 a bunch of people, all the Christians. At some point the. 1023 00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:59.840 Scripture was a scripture, regardless of who could identify it 1024 00:52:59.920 --> 00:53:00.159 or not. 1025 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.320 I don't believe that. That's begging the question to be 1026 00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:06.360 the word of God. Okay, name somebody in the first 1027 00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:07.960 three centuries that had your canon of scripture? 1028 00:53:09.559 --> 00:53:11.639 Well again, you it does matter. 1029 00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:14.760 Names won't matter. It doesn't matter. You just claim that 1030 00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.480 it was the scriptures, no matter what. So name somebody 1031 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:18.280 that had your canon? 1032 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:21.559 Why does it matter who I could point to you? 1033 00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:24.440 Because you're a sect that's made up after the Reformation 1034 00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.599 and nobody had your views in the first innerd years 1035 00:53:26.679 --> 00:53:28.920 or the first thousand years. I'm using the sixty six 1036 00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:31.079 books and you agree with I don't care the sixty six. 1037 00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:35.400 I believe the sixties what fallacies are? The difference is 1038 00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:38.760 you you believe the apocrypha and I don't. How does 1039 00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:42.320 how do in three hundred and eighteen A d Say 1040 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.960 that the scriptures are sufficient for preaching the truth without 1041 00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:47.880 your canon. He doesn't have your canon. Do you understand 1042 00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:50.199 that the Book of Revelation is only in the scriptures 1043 00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:52.480 because Athenasia is convinced Rome? So do you think ath 1044 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:53.480 Nations was infallible? 1045 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:55.280 No? Absolutely not? 1046 00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:57.000 Okay? So then how was it that he was the 1047 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:57.639 one that How. 1048 00:53:57.519 --> 00:53:59.559 Could he make that claim? Though I was asking that, 1049 00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:01.639 he's bagging the question. How does he know what the 1050 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:02.320 scriptures are? 1051 00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:05.000 How could he even make us like the Apostolic tradition? 1052 00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:08.880 Did he get the apostles handed down to him? 1053 00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:11.440 He got the Apostolic tradition handed down to him which 1054 00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:14.880 you rely on hand? Even know that Matthew wrote, Matthew. 1055 00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:17.760 How do you know, Matthew wrote Matthew who handed the scriptures? 1056 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:21.679 How do you know, Matthews? How do you know? Matthew 1057 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:22.280 wrote Matthew? 1058 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:25.199 How do the guys for the first one hundred, two hundred, 1059 00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:27.199 three hundred years knows tradition? 1060 00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:28.679 Which ones did they know? Which to happen? 1061 00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:30.519 You know that we can read those people in the first, second, 1062 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:32.840 third century? Have you ever read them? So? Where did 1063 00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:34.280 they give us? You know we can read them? 1064 00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:35.199 They give us a list? 1065 00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:38.760 Do you not listen to what I'm saying? Do you 1066 00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:40.559 know we can go read these people? I argue that 1067 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:43.639 there's we can read what people the church Father is 1068 00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:45.719 the first second, third century who passed on these texts? 1069 00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:47.599 You said, the apostles of the one handing him down? 1070 00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:52.880 Where is the where is the assated your church? In 1071 00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:56.400 the apostolic seas to the successors to the apostles? When 1072 00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:58.599 you go read Ignatius, Clement or any of the first 1073 00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:01.800 second century church father, they talk about being the successors 1074 00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:04.039 to the apostles. They talk about the bishop. Ignatius says, 1075 00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:06.159 the bishop represents God, the Father to the Church. They 1076 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.960 have the limit know which things they hand down from 1077 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:11.440 the Apostolic tradition. I've answered this ten times to you, 1078 00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:13.679 because they were taught and ordained by apostles. 1079 00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:16.679 So the apostles had a list and they handed them 1080 00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:17.000 a list. 1081 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:19.719 There is no list of the canon. That's what I'm 1082 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:21.239 trying to tell you. So then how do they know 1083 00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:24.039 the scripture is because of the tradition of the church. 1084 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:28.840 You just it's a circular army. It's oh, the apostles 1085 00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:31.719 just handed in the Bible. Because because they just handed 1086 00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:34.400 in the Bible, you never make the circular argument. No, 1087 00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:36.760 if you look at the history of the formation of 1088 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:39.719 the canon in the Apostolic Seas and the Roman Empire, 1089 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:43.760 there they're multiple different competing canons because when the apostles 1090 00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:47.880 go out, they establish successors and churches that don't have 1091 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.440 all the texts. So if Paul writes a letter to 1092 00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:54.000 the Thessalonians the church that thessal Aniki might have two 1093 00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.400 Gospels and some Apol's Epistles and some of Peter, and 1094 00:55:57.480 --> 00:55:59.519 they might not have the Book of Revelation. This is 1095 00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:02.079 very com and knowledge. Basic history of the Canon of 1096 00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:05.320 texts right, and then by the fourth, fifth, sixth century, 1097 00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:08.480 the church meets to try to collate and figure out 1098 00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:12.679 what the actual canonical texts are. Now, as I argue 1099 00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:15.199 in my opening statement, no, no, no, how, how does 1100 00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:17.280 that even make sense? If it possibility gave you all 1101 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:20.159 the scripture history out what it is. It doesn't matter 1102 00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:22.880 whether you think it stand them a list. What are 1103 00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:24.639 you talking about? It doesn't even matter whether you think 1104 00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:26.960 it makes sense, because I gave you the actual history 1105 00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:27.679 of how it went down. 1106 00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:30.760 That's what a standard by which the first three hundred 1107 00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:35.119 years of of Christianity they have no idea of any scripture. 1108 00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:37.480 You can't name one church. Rather, they even had your canon. 1109 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.000 So why should I you have no knowledge? I mean 1110 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.079 Saint Jerome is I said, the first three centuries. 1111 00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:44.880 He's not the first whole? So why is it three? 1112 00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.599 Why is it it two? Why is it four? I 1113 00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:48.519 mean you're just making up numbers? Now, No, I'm not 1114 00:56:48.559 --> 00:56:51.760 just make up Where is the Bible? The first made 1115 00:56:51.760 --> 00:56:52.280 the argument? 1116 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:54.880 You said, pre Nicea, how did anybody know? So I'm 1117 00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:57.280 asking you the same question. So pre Nicea, who had 1118 00:56:57.320 --> 00:56:58.239 your canon of scripture? 1119 00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:00.079 It? 1120 00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:05.119 I would again, I would think any Christian knew was 1121 00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:07.639 Solos when they got Matthew and they got Mark. When 1122 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:11.239 they got the written ephesis, they were like, this is 1123 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:12.360 obviously the word of God. 1124 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:14.400 And so they copied them and they handed to. 1125 00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:17.679 Name somebody that had your canon. Should be easy. I 1126 00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:21.519 don't care what person you because nobody had the Protestant 1127 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:24.199 Canadon that's obviously had them passing down the Bible because 1128 00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.119 we have it today. I have these epistles because they 1129 00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:29.960 massed them. This stupid I'm not asking you if there 1130 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.400 were all the manuscripts throughout the Roman Empire. I'm saying, 1131 00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:35.760 name a church father in the first three centuries I 1132 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:36.119 see that. 1133 00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.559 Cares about church fathers? 1134 00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:40.280 Are they in fact because they preserve the infallible because 1135 00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:44.480 they put it together? You idiot, which church fathers? You 1136 00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:46.960 don't even? You can't name one? You don't know anything 1137 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.880 about this. You disagree with Jerome. I mean, Jerome didn't 1138 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.320 believe that the Apocrypha was legit. And what basicist am 1139 00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:56.760 I supposed to go with Jerome? On your view? You're 1140 00:57:56.840 --> 00:58:00.719 just cherry picking church history to narrative. Know, you just 1141 00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:05.960 want to say, oh, whatt and so you think that 1142 00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:07.760 you just picked one church father, Will you go with 1143 00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.000 the mind of the total take any church fathers. I'm 1144 00:58:10.039 --> 00:58:11.159 saying them. 1145 00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:14.599 You said Jerome, you said, name somebody that had a 1146 00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:16.440 similar canon, So I named somebody. 1147 00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:20.920 I don't feel. I don't care if got Jerome got 1148 00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:23.679 it right or wrong. So you're relying on people passing 1149 00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:25.760 down text that really. 1150 00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:27.960 Christians recognize God's word and they pass them. 1151 00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:31.480 Down Christians everything Christian, what Christian churches in the church 1152 00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:34.920 at Epic, some of the and you know you have 1153 00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:42.840 the third century Christian. These guys, shut up. You can't 1154 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:44.679 name a Christian in the second and third century that 1155 00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:45.280 had your view. 1156 00:58:47.320 --> 00:58:49.360 All of the Christians in the first centry that were 1157 00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:53.920 saved had my view because that's you know, they recognized 1158 00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:56.760 the word. That's a church is in Asia were expected 1159 00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:58.000 to receive the Word of God. 1160 00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:03.559 That is talk the way scotsman fallacy because if I 1161 00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:05.679 point to some of it as my canon, you act 1162 00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:07.719 like he's not legit. You did it in the second 1163 00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:12.039 legit is Jerome is Jerome's Latin vulgate. 1164 00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:13.920 Legit is his view on the canon. 1165 00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:16.360 Legit. Do you even know that Jerome submitted to the 1166 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:19.000 Church of Rome and included this is Jerome legit. Did 1167 00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:21.159 you hear what I said? Refuge? You won't answer the 1168 00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:24.719 question you I asked. You just ask another question, Jerome, 1169 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:26.960 I'm not I'm answering your You can't. You can't answer 1170 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:30.280 these questions because you know that you're wrong. Jerome submitted 1171 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:32.760 to Rome and included the dual Cannon that you're an idiot. 1172 00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:35.559 You don't even know that. I don't Jerome is Catholic. 1173 00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:35.880 I don't. 1174 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:37.840 I'm not a Catholic. You're not a Catholic. 1175 00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:40.480 You asked me about Jerome's canon, and I proved you wrong, 1176 00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:41.760 that he didn't even have your canon. 1177 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.719 I believe all the Christians could tell what the scripture was. 1178 00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:45.960 You can't tell me that. 1179 00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:49.079 Was in the second century. 1180 00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:52.199 They know what the scripture was in What a true 1181 00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:54.960 Scotsman fallacy is, obviously, it's just. 1182 00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:57.000 When you cherry pick people that have a different opinion 1183 00:59:57.039 --> 00:59:59.760 than you and claim that that's not legit. You say, oh, well, 1184 01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:03.039 they it's like you're seven hundred and fifty four AD 1185 01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:05.840 iconoclasm Scott. 1186 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:07.800 That was that was a rob council. 1187 01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:11.119 That was a rude Scott in seven hundred and eighty 1188 01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:13.239 seven a d that were You're going to hand counsel. 1189 01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:15.679 I don't even just cherry pick through history. I don't 1190 01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:18.519 even think you know what it is. I just explained 1191 01:00:18.519 --> 01:00:22.039 it to you. Sales, all the Scotsmen, all the Scotsmen 1192 01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:24.119 do this, and then you show an example of someone 1193 01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:25.559 not doing it, and they say, oh, he's not really 1194 01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:28.239 a Scotsman. That's exactly obvious. They know it. And that's 1195 01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:31.440 what you're doing, exactly what you could when you said 1196 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:33.719 that only the true Christians are the ones that believe 1197 01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:35.000 my canon, and you can't give. 1198 01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:38.519 It only the true Christians. Yes, you did all Orthodox, 1199 01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:40.400 all Protestant. 1200 01:00:40.360 --> 01:00:44.920 All Catholics sixty six books as the scripture. That's a fallacy. 1201 01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:46.719 It doesn't matter that we all accept it if we 1202 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:49.559 have different arguments or bases for it. I never said 1203 01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:51.960 that the people that aren't saved couldn't pick out the 1204 01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:54.639 right canon. I never said that. You said that the 1205 01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:58.159 true Christians believed in the sixty six canon script. Yes, 1206 01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:00.519 you didn't believe that. So name one of those people 1207 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:02.199 in the first, second, and third century. 1208 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:08.719 I did Paul Timothy after the Apostles, because all of 1209 01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:10.400 these people were after the Apostles. 1210 01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:13.360 That's begging the question. I'm not going to point to 1211 01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:16.679 some church fathers, and he is not to say, because 1212 01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:19.519 I don't care. They're so like Catholic, they'll be like 1213 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:23.079 saying name is popular Catholic today. That exams what I 1214 01:01:23.079 --> 01:01:25.119 care about that? Do you have an example of one 1215 01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:28.039 or not I have pointed to Saint Jerome? 1216 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:31.639 He's not in the second You don't have that many 1217 01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:34.880 examples of anybody giving actually in this in the first, 1218 01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:35.719 second and third century. 1219 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:39.159 There's not. There's like huge groups all these different people. 1220 01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:43.360 By the way, there's no there's small. There's small. You know. 1221 01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:45.800 It's not all of these red books up there. That's 1222 01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:48.360 the pre This is just snowing with everybody. Look at 1223 01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:52.199 all these books books. It's not books. This is all 1224 01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:55.119 of the pre nicing church fathers. It's about just trust me, bro. 1225 01:01:55.599 --> 01:01:57.599 It's not just trust me, bro. It's a famous set 1226 01:01:57.679 --> 01:01:59.679 of church fathers, the first ten volumes. What are you 1227 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:01.159 talk about? Just trust me, bro? You don't even know 1228 01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:03.719 what this is. You think that there's not a lot 1229 01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:05.519 of documentation. How many? 1230 01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:08.239 How many church fathers have a canon list that we 1231 01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:10.320 can look to in the second and third century. 1232 01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:13.760 Give me a number that argues for me, You idiot, 1233 01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:16.119 that's my That helps my case, you dummy. 1234 01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:18.719 How did they know what the scriptures were to pass 1235 01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:20.559 down so that they could end up canonizing it? 1236 01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:25.519 They know by ecumenical councils getting together and before the 1237 01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:31.039 Federal Council, before the ecamenical council. The fact that there 1238 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:35.800 are different councils debating and discussing this for centuries proves 1239 01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:38.599 that they were not operating on solo scripture and refuge 1240 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:41.639 you in the second century, how did someone know what 1241 01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:45.440 was the Bible? They were not going on only the Bible. 1242 01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:48.199 They couldn't read. They go to hear the liturgy, they 1243 01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:52.320 couldn't read. Yes, most people in the Roman Empire couldn't read, idiot, 1244 01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.039 So how did they know what things have passed down? 1245 01:02:57.559 --> 01:02:59.239 Do you think that most people in the Roman Empire 1246 01:02:59.280 --> 01:02:59.800 were literate? 1247 01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:02.280 I have no idea what the literacy rates in Rome were. 1248 01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:05.519 I just think it's I think it's ridiculous to claim 1249 01:03:05.599 --> 01:03:08.599 that most people in these churches can't read. This is 1250 01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:12.079 a well known fact. It's well known, dude, it's well 1251 01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:15.760 the population. This is an idiot, This is a funny. 1252 01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:17.320 Can you give me a source on it? You make 1253 01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:20.400 these assertions, you make these crazy. It's not everybody you 1254 01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:22.920 can't read in the second century. It's not a crazy assertion. 1255 01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:25.880 It's common knowledge. I shouldn't have to common It is 1256 01:03:26.079 --> 01:03:28.400 yeah that the Roman. Most people in the Roman were illiterate. 1257 01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:32.599 The literate class for the aristocrats, idiot. Now again, tell 1258 01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:35.360 me who in the second and third century before Nicea 1259 01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:37.039 has your Protestant Canada? Just name one. 1260 01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:41.840 Every Christian could recognize God's word, that is in the 1261 01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:44.559 Fellow in the second century and in the third sent 1262 01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:48.039 not what the scriptures were to pass? How you define 1263 01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:50.000 they know what to copy because they knew it was 1264 01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:50.800 already God's word. 1265 01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:54.599 They may represent them name, name of theologial church father. 1266 01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:59.199 This is just not You're just you're basically just trying. 1267 01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:01.559 You're just trying to create a straw man argument that 1268 01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.440 doesn't even need to You said that I don't need 1269 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:05.119 a church father. 1270 01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:08.880 How did Timothy know when you sat down? How did 1271 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:10.199 any of these churches know what the past? 1272 01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:12.000 How is the church at ephicis supposed to know that 1273 01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:13.760 the Book of Revelation is the Word of God without 1274 01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:20.440 a council Apostolic tradition. How does someone in the Old 1275 01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:22.400 Testament know what it was Scripture. 1276 01:04:22.679 --> 01:04:24.880 I already answered that question earlier when I talked about 1277 01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:29.639 levitical you didn't give an answer. You said Church literally appointed. 1278 01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:33.519 You talked about the Old Testament structure of how they understood, 1279 01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:35.960 and went to how the law executed and how the 1280 01:04:36.039 --> 01:04:38.480 Levites would make judgments and how prophets had to teach. 1281 01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:44.679 And you reject the Hebrew canon. You the Hebrew can. 1282 01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:47.679 It's not because you build the apocryph. It's the Rabbinic canon. 1283 01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:50.679 It's not the Hebrew canon. Your heretic. I'm a heretic 1284 01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:54.639 for rejecting the apocrypha. So do you believe that king 1285 01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:57.159 of a Syria follow the Rabbinic christ rejecting? Do you 1286 01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:00.000 believe that the king of Assyria and lived in Nineveh? 1287 01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:04.360 That's a general title. Jews would oftentimes call their kings, 1288 01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:08.480 i'm Alek Pharaoh. All the way into book Revelation, they 1289 01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:11.559 call their enemies by Pharaoh or Amelek or anything like that. 1290 01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:14.880 So you're just fundamentally an ignorant person. And I answered 1291 01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:17.679 your questions about the Old Time, answered you multiple. 1292 01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:21.280 Times questioning if Neb was the king of Assyria. Did 1293 01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:24.239 you not hear the answer, which is a historically inaccurate statement. 1294 01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:26.599 How did I answer your question? State what I didn't 1295 01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:29.519 answer it. I gave you an answer. You just said, oh, 1296 01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:32.199 sometimes they just use these other titles for people, But 1297 01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:34.679 you didn't. Really, I didn't say sometimes. I gave you examples. 1298 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:36.599 In the Book of Revelation they talk about the city 1299 01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:40.119 being Sodom and Gomorrah. Was it Sodom and gamorentual picture. 1300 01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:45.599 Jews to this day still call their enemies amelek. It's 1301 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:48.880 a Jewish practice. You say, we reject the Hebrew canon. 1302 01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:53.559 So you're saying you following of it's the Rabbinic canon. 1303 01:05:53.599 --> 01:06:01.639 It's not. This is just a stupid person. They the 1304 01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:05.360 New Testament says even in the Book of Revelation that 1305 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:11.719 the enemies of God's people are Sodom, Gomorrah, Egypt, Babylon. 1306 01:06:12.239 --> 01:06:14.960 Those empires are dead. And I'm telling you, even to 1307 01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:19.239 this day, when Nathanna who calls people amelek, he's reflecting 1308 01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:22.800 that tradition of always calling their enemies by the name 1309 01:06:22.840 --> 01:06:25.119 of some king or emperor. It's a well known thing 1310 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:28.119 in the academic literature. So again, you're just expressing your 1311 01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:31.119 own ignorance. But I already answered your question about the 1312 01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:33.599 Old Testament to the law and to the testimony. The 1313 01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:37.679 law is the Torah. The testimony is the interpretation of 1314 01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:40.599 the Torah. Why is Matthew supposed to be in the Gospel? 1315 01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:43.719 It has the divine voice? It's internally How do you 1316 01:06:43.800 --> 01:06:43.960 know that? 1317 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:45.599 How do you know that? 1318 01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.599 And tell the difference between you know, my wife's voice 1319 01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:52.079 and another woman's obviously my sheep hear my voice. 1320 01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:55.599 That's a subjective argument. How does it subjective? Can you 1321 01:06:55.639 --> 01:06:58.440 tell the different between eighties music and a him? What's 1322 01:06:58.519 --> 01:07:02.559 the subjective in eighties music? And is the subjective? What 1323 01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:04.920 is the objective? Public argument? To know the difference? 1324 01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:08.280 It's internally consistent. It's historically received. 1325 01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:10.960 By the question internally consistent with what? That's what? That's 1326 01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:13.519 what you're you're taking all these arguments and you won't 1327 01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:17.239 apply them to your church. I'm actually giving you that's 1328 01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:19.199 a two quote way. Why are we supposed to accept 1329 01:07:19.239 --> 01:07:21.599 that Matthew is included in the text? You said because 1330 01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:23.440 it has a divine voice? That's the thing in question. 1331 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:25.480 How do we know that has a divine voice? That's 1332 01:07:25.480 --> 01:07:28.199 what's in question. How do you know it's it's a 1333 01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:32.239 your Why do you why are you doing it too. 1334 01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:35.800 Quote way, I answered your question, you didn't you what 1335 01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:38.800 was your answer? Then I asked you, while you believe it? 1336 01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:41.400 And you won't answer. I said, it has the divine voice, 1337 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:43.519 it's internally consistent with the rest of scriptures. 1338 01:07:43.719 --> 01:07:47.639 It's been received by Christian voice. When what's in question? 1339 01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:51.679 Because I can tell the difference between God, so you 1340 01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:55.599 so ultimately everybody that so you are the ultimately? So 1341 01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:58.280 you ultimately do you know your church is right? So 1342 01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:01.280 it's a purely subjective argument. I'm talking about the tradition 1343 01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:05.159 that Matthew wrote Matthew. Do you think that matters apostolic authorship? 1344 01:08:06.320 --> 01:08:08.519 If it didn't say Matthew at the top, it wouldn't 1345 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:09.320 change anything for me. 1346 01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:14.519 Dude, Why does it? How does it make any difference 1347 01:08:14.519 --> 01:08:16.119 in your life? You know that that's a Matthew and 1348 01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:20.600 not as does apostolic authorship matter? 1349 01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:25.680 Obviously, we believe the Apostles were ordained by God and 1350 01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:30.640 they authorship of Matthew. The Book of Hebrews has no 1351 01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:33.319 clear apostolic identified and in. 1352 01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:35.680 The case of the Gospels of Matthew doesn't matter. 1353 01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:39.520 I do think that the apostles are the ones that 1354 01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:42.319 saw the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. That's what makes them apostle, 1355 01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:45.600 and so the gospel by eyewitnesses. 1356 01:08:45.560 --> 01:08:48.600 Luke says, stop deflecting. In the case of the Gospel 1357 01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:51.720 of Matthew, does apostolic authorship matter? 1358 01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:53.119 It's a point of evidence. 1359 01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:56.640 Yes, okay, how do you know that Matthew the apostle 1360 01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:58.560 wrote it? Obviously? 1361 01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:01.760 Christians receive this gospel for someone that told them that. 1362 01:09:01.880 --> 01:09:02.600 How do you know that? 1363 01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:06.000 How do you know because it was passed down through 1364 01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:07.600 who through tradition? 1365 01:09:08.239 --> 01:09:10.960 Oh? Thank you. You just ended the debate right there. 1366 01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:11.720 So I never said that. 1367 01:09:12.399 --> 01:09:15.039 You never said that traditions were everything that you rely 1368 01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:18.000 on tradition we have and what I argued for. Okay, 1369 01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:20.520 I've never said that traditions are wrong. Obviously, I didn't 1370 01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:22.079 write this King James Bible. 1371 01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:23.680 To me? 1372 01:09:25.399 --> 01:09:27.960 How do I know that my traditions are right because 1373 01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:29.600 they're internally consistent with the scripture. 1374 01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:33.439 How do you know that? You tra the scriptures are 1375 01:09:33.479 --> 01:09:35.840 the thing in question? To appeal to the scriptures is 1376 01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:36.640 begging the question. 1377 01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:39.119 Is the scripture divine? 1378 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:42.159 Of course that has nothing to do with my parent 1379 01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:44.439 in your opening statement said it's not divine. I didn't 1380 01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:48.560 make the scripture. Is in fact we're equivocating again, I said, 1381 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:51.760 I'll show you the clip where you see quivicating. I said, 1382 01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:54.039 there's a difference between the written text as word and 1383 01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:55.880 the second person that God had his word. That's all 1384 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:56.840 I said. So you keep it with. 1385 01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:02.039 The scriptures are divine, their divine inspired. Do you believe 1386 01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:02.760 they're infallible? 1387 01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:08.960 Yes? Okay, So if anything is contradictory to them, is 1388 01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:14.439 it also infallible? Obviously if it contradicts it, No, it's 1389 01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:15.680 not infallible. Okay. 1390 01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:19.119 So if your tradition of your church is in contrast 1391 01:10:19.159 --> 01:10:21.680 to something in this book, would it be would it 1392 01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:22.000 be right? 1393 01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:27.039 Uh? It would be wrong. But it's also said biship 1394 01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.640 must be the husband of one wife, and your church 1395 01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:31.760 teaches that bishops are supposed to be unmarried. 1396 01:10:32.079 --> 01:10:33.439 How am I supposed to know that you're right? 1397 01:10:34.520 --> 01:10:37.720 Right? Well, episcopacy can refer to the twofold office. It 1398 01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:39.800 can be a presbyter or it can be a bishop. 1399 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:42.600 And there is an episcopacy because in Acts one we 1400 01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:46.760 read about episcopacy that uh, Judas had his office or 1401 01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:51.039 episcopacy replaced. And when we look at the Council of Nicia. 1402 01:10:51.159 --> 01:10:54.039 It talks about the episcopacy and bishops. So do you 1403 01:10:54.479 --> 01:10:57.000 where's your episcopacy? Well? 1404 01:10:57.039 --> 01:10:59.079 In Acts Chapter one that you appealed to, they replaced 1405 01:10:59.079 --> 01:11:03.520 an apostle that did not replace What's what's a bishop 1406 01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:04.119 is different? 1407 01:11:04.159 --> 01:11:09.439 Here? Was is not a bishop? In Actually one? What's 1408 01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:10.319 the Greek word. 1409 01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:12.760 Like for presbytery? 1410 01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:18.159 Does it? Why does it matter? Because the word is 1411 01:11:18.199 --> 01:11:19.479 episcopos in Greek. 1412 01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:25.039 They're obviously appointing someone in the of an apostle because 1413 01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:26.079 he had to be with him from the. 1414 01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:28.560 Very Why is there even a successor to an apostle? 1415 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:32.159 They they thought it was good to replace him, But 1416 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:35.239 it doesn't even really matter because that guy's so they 1417 01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:36.399 had apostolic succession? 1418 01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:37.800 Who's they? 1419 01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:42.439 In Acts one? They are the apostles? What do you 1420 01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:44.840 mean there's no succession? They are the apostles. Peter is 1421 01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:45.439 the apostle? 1422 01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:46.000 Dude? 1423 01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:49.199 Are you this stupid? In Acts one they replace Judas 1424 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:55.039 in his episcopacy. Why is there a seat replacement, a successor? 1425 01:11:56.319 --> 01:11:59.119 They're replacing him, but again does that matter if if 1426 01:11:59.159 --> 01:12:02.079 he is, is there a successor to the apostle? Okay? 1427 01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:05.239 Is the apostle a successor? Or is he just an 1428 01:12:05.279 --> 01:12:08.000 additional apostle in Act one? Why are you deflecting the 1429 01:12:08.079 --> 01:12:09.840 Paul in Acts one? Is there a success? Do you 1430 01:12:09.880 --> 01:12:12.520 believe there's only twelve apostles? Is there a success to 1431 01:12:12.640 --> 01:12:15.840 be a perfect succession of twelve apostles? Apostles allowed to 1432 01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:18.479 take again? Is there a successor? In Act one to 1433 01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:21.319 Judas in his office of episcopals? He or not in 1434 01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:24.920 his office of being an apostle episcopost? Is there a 1435 01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:27.359 successor to the episcopost and Act one? In the twelve 1436 01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:30.199 they made it? They answer, why are you so dishonest? 1437 01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:33.880 I don't I don't use the word episcopacy here in 1438 01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:34.840 the English? 1439 01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:39.560 It's the Greek word? You idiot? Does it? 1440 01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:40.279 What is? 1441 01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:43.720 This person is too stupid? This is so stupid? So again, 1442 01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:47.720 do we have any He doesn't care about the Greeks? 1443 01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:50.239 Did say I didn't care about the Greek? You just did? 1444 01:12:50.319 --> 01:12:51.600 You said? I don't? You said I don't care what 1445 01:12:51.640 --> 01:12:54.319 the Greek is? I read the English. You're an idiot. 1446 01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:57.520 I don't care to go back to the Greek to try. 1447 01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:00.159 It? 1448 01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:02.920 Is here? Is there a successor to the episcopos and 1449 01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:04.000 acts one to the apostles. 1450 01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:06.359 They obviously appointed Matthias in the position of Judas. 1451 01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:08.399 No, what agrees with that? To what is there a 1452 01:13:08.439 --> 01:13:11.680 successor to be one of the twelve? Is there? So 1453 01:13:11.720 --> 01:13:14.319 you won't say successor because you know that means absolute succession? 1454 01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:19.920 How can you succeed? Or Judas isn't even saved? Judas 1455 01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:24.439 is a devil, heretics. Does that have to do? Is 1456 01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:25.520 just taking his place? 1457 01:13:25.880 --> 01:13:27.600 It says, give his office to another in the. 1458 01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:30.560 Old test, James, his office is episcopacy, idiot, that's a 1459 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:32.079 successor to the apostles. 1460 01:13:32.439 --> 01:13:33.840 Okay, he gave his office to him? 1461 01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:36.199 A right? Why does that matter? James? Can we move on? 1462 01:13:37.760 --> 01:13:39.880 This is close to him. We normally go into the 1463 01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:42.520 Q and A as the open dialogue is usually about 1464 01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:45.239 an hour. If you guys have any final threads you'd 1465 01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:47.800 like to draw together from the debate, this would be 1466 01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:50.079 the time. Otherwise you will move into the Q and A. 1467 01:13:55.039 --> 01:13:56.960 Any last thoughts? 1468 01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:00.760 What about how about a brief closing statements? 1469 01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:03.479 Him and me, Yeah, let's do it. How about three 1470 01:14:03.560 --> 01:14:09.560 minutes each? In go ahead, Master John, as any of 1471 01:14:09.560 --> 01:14:10.319 you'd like to go first? 1472 01:14:11.840 --> 01:14:14.680 We didn't really make much ground on this particular discussion, 1473 01:14:15.159 --> 01:14:18.159 and Jay doesn't want to hold his logic to his 1474 01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:21.760 own church obviously. He just wants to constantly try to 1475 01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:24.199 claim that we can't know what the scripture is without 1476 01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.560 his quote church. But they never explains where his actual 1477 01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:29.199 church comes from. There's nothing in the Bible that teaches 1478 01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:33.640 is infallible. Historically speaking, the Orthodox Church has many different errors, 1479 01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:35.319 many different problems, and they've. 1480 01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:39.000 Elevated their tradition above scripture and above Christ. The authority 1481 01:14:39.079 --> 01:14:42.359 in the Orthodox Church is not Christ. It is their opinion. 1482 01:14:43.119 --> 01:14:48.319 They simply elevate icons, they elevate their understanding of. 1483 01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:50.479 Bishops, and of course they believe in theosis. 1484 01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:56.039 Their apocrypha teaches that almsgiving purges away every sin, whereas 1485 01:14:56.079 --> 01:14:59.239 the Bible teaches that it's through faith in Jesus Christ's 1486 01:14:59.239 --> 01:15:02.439 blood that gives us the forgiveness of sins, and it's 1487 01:15:02.520 --> 01:15:04.720 only through the Gospel that we can be saved. The 1488 01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:07.279 Bible teaches that once you're saved, the Holy Spirit dwells 1489 01:15:07.319 --> 01:15:09.720 inside of you, and Jesus Christ said, my sheep, hear 1490 01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:11.720 my voice, and they will not follow a stranger. 1491 01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:14.119 That's why we don't follow the apocrypha because it's. 1492 01:15:13.960 --> 01:15:18.279 A strange voice, it has historical inaccuracies, it teaches false doctrine, 1493 01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:21.319 and of course their church also teaches false doctrine. They 1494 01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:25.000 have ecumenical councils where they say that icons are blasphemous 1495 01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:27.680 and idolatrists and seven hundred and fifty four a d. 1496 01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:30.960 And then magically in seven eighty seven AD they claim no, 1497 01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:33.039 that was a robber council, didn't really count. 1498 01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:36.520 Trust me bro, which is really the Orthodox position. In 1499 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:37.840 a nutshell, trusts me bro. 1500 01:15:38.359 --> 01:15:42.600 He creates a position in which the first Christians at 1501 01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:45.520 the church at Ephesus could not understand what the scripture is. 1502 01:15:45.960 --> 01:15:47.920 We have so many examples of churches in the New 1503 01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:50.840 Testament having so many problems constantly needing to be corrected 1504 01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:53.720 by scripture. Jay's church won't be corrected by scripture, so 1505 01:15:53.800 --> 01:15:55.960 it's gone off the rails and there's no hope unless 1506 01:15:56.000 --> 01:15:58.159 they actually appeal back to scripture to allow themselves to 1507 01:15:58.199 --> 01:16:02.520 be corrected. It's interesting in this particular debate, Jay wouldn't 1508 01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:06.560 answer my questions. He just simply tries to use philosophy 1509 01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:10.239 and trying to claim fallacies in order to avoid actually 1510 01:16:10.600 --> 01:16:13.359 defending his position. He just simply wants to claim that 1511 01:16:13.439 --> 01:16:16.199 my position's wrong, therefore he must be right. He doesn't 1512 01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:20.920 actually defend his position whatsoever. His church is claimed to 1513 01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:23.479 be infallible, he has no verse to teach such a thing. 1514 01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:26.640 And he's just like the Pharisees to day, where they 1515 01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:29.159 rejected the word of God so that they can keep 1516 01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:30.319 their tradition. 1517 01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:33.520 We'll kick it over to Jay for his three minute 1518 01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:35.760 closing as well, and then we're jumping into your questions 1519 01:16:35.800 --> 01:16:36.760 folks from the Q and A. 1520 01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:41.159 Yeah, this person was the dumbest person I've ever debated. 1521 01:16:41.199 --> 01:16:44.359 There's a new person beyond t Dump or the Kurgan 1522 01:16:44.439 --> 01:16:47.159 or anyone else. I've never debated anyone this stubborn and 1523 01:16:47.239 --> 01:16:50.359 stupid and foolish and ignorant. I answered every one of 1524 01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:54.239 his objections explicitly with absolute nuance. He actually thinks that 1525 01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:58.279 saying philosophy and fallacies don't matter in a debate, which 1526 01:16:58.319 --> 01:17:01.079 again shows that he's a fundamentally stupid person. This is 1527 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.279 what you get with independent fundamentalists, Bible churches, and people 1528 01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:08.279 that promote cult leaders like Steven Anderson, absolute lunatics and psychotics. 1529 01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:11.319 Is you get this kind of ignorance that is so 1530 01:17:12.600 --> 01:17:17.239 hard press and so closed minded to actually listen to 1531 01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:20.119 the arguments that are being made to say that it 1532 01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:22.920 doesn't matter about the church fathers in the first, second, 1533 01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:24.640 or third century when it comes to the canon. I 1534 01:17:24.720 --> 01:17:27.079 don't care. But there were true Christians there that had 1535 01:17:27.239 --> 01:17:29.359 my Protestant canon, even though I don't know of any, 1536 01:17:29.600 --> 01:17:32.399 and I can't name any. They were just there, trust me, Bro. 1537 01:17:32.760 --> 01:17:34.760 So he's actually the one doing the trust me, bro 1538 01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:38.520 when I answer specifically with absolute nuance every single one 1539 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:40.199 of his questions. We saw in the first half of 1540 01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:43.520 the debate, I give you multiple examples of the Word 1541 01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:46.319 of God not being just written texts, And it took 1542 01:17:46.479 --> 01:17:49.600 multiple times of him actually admitting that and then backtracking 1543 01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:52.520 and falling back on his fallacy of equivalents. So all 1544 01:17:52.600 --> 01:17:56.399 this debate was was his own personal, subjective argumentation and 1545 01:17:56.439 --> 01:17:59.960 assumption that the divine voice that he feels is telling 1546 01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:02.880 telling him that the Protestant canon is the correct canon, 1547 01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:05.039 when in the first, second and third century when he 1548 01:18:05.159 --> 01:18:07.680 liked to appeal to pre Nicia, there's no one that 1549 01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:11.479 has his canon. And again when Trent Horne debated James White, 1550 01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:14.640 Trent got James White to admit that nobody in the 1551 01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:18.760 first several centuries is operating on solar scriptura. That means 1552 01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:21.439 that in those centuries, soul scriptura wasn't true because most 1553 01:18:21.560 --> 01:18:24.560 churches didn't have the full complete canon. Thus it was 1554 01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:27.520 impossible for them to actually operate on the principle of 1555 01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:30.800 solar scriptura. Guess what we have thousands of pages of 1556 01:18:30.880 --> 01:18:32.800 the writings of the Church fathers, which he laughed at 1557 01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:35.359 and mocked, not knowing anything about it in his own 1558 01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:38.239 stupid ignorance, when in reality, when we go read them, 1559 01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:41.520 they give us an absolutely amazing picture of the worship, 1560 01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:44.279 of the liturgy, of the imagery of the Eucharist, all 1561 01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:47.760 going on in the earliest centuries of the Church, second 1562 01:18:47.800 --> 01:18:51.000 and third century. So, just like all the other Judaized 1563 01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:54.520 Protestant heretics, he thinks that the rabbinic canon of the 1564 01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:59.039 post Apostolic Christ, rejecting Jews, is the right canon. He 1565 01:18:59.159 --> 01:19:02.159 doesn't even know that. Aaron Aus and Justin Martyer talked 1566 01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:06.199 about the rabbinic Jews who formed the protomasoretic text, which 1567 01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:09.680 is the Rabbinic tradition, altered and changed their text against 1568 01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:13.880 the septuagen tradition which was so replete with references to Christ. 1569 01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:17.039 He also doesn't know that every Protestant scholar who has 1570 01:19:17.079 --> 01:19:20.880 any significant academic credentials or degree, whether it's F. F. 1571 01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:24.119 Bruce or whether it's Lee McDonald or anybody, they will 1572 01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:29.079 admit that the Jutero Canon includes the Subtuagi and includes 1573 01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:32.239 the deuterocononical texts, and the New Testament cites them dozens 1574 01:19:32.279 --> 01:19:36.359 of times throughout its passages. I argued very clearly that 1575 01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:39.159 oral tradition is in the Old Testament and the New Testament. 1576 01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:42.600 I gave at least a dozen examples. He didn't even 1577 01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:45.319 address any of those. He acted like I made no 1578 01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:47.640 scriptural arguments and never went to scripture, which is an 1579 01:19:47.640 --> 01:19:50.079 absolute lie. This man is an absolute joke. 1580 01:19:51.800 --> 01:19:53.680 We are going to go to the Q and A 1581 01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:56.760 one remind folks please don't copy and paste in the 1582 01:19:56.880 --> 01:20:00.239 live chat. Also, as you can see the bottom, ready 1583 01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:02.640 to your screen, Debate kon eight is happening this summer 1584 01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:05.239 and one of our sponsors is main first project in 1585 01:20:05.319 --> 01:20:08.319 addition to Roar. If you would like to become a 1586 01:20:08.359 --> 01:20:11.960 sponsor for debatecon eight, email me at Modern Day Debate 1587 01:20:12.119 --> 01:20:15.520 at gmail dot com. Otherwise you can click on the 1588 01:20:15.680 --> 01:20:20.119 tickets link for Debacon eight. It also shows sponsorship sponsorship 1589 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:23.439 options for your organization to help get the word out. 1590 01:20:23.720 --> 01:20:25.880 We're gonna jump into these questions and we're gonna move fast. 1591 01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:28.239 So thank you very much for your questions. Folks. Are 1592 01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:30.279 you guys okay with rebuttals or would you prefer to 1593 01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:33.079 minimize rebuttals? I would suggest, because we do have a 1594 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:34.880 ton of questions that we want to get through all 1595 01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:37.159 these before you guys have to leave, if we can 1596 01:20:37.239 --> 01:20:39.439 minimize rebuttals, that would be the best way to go. 1597 01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:43.560 It's fine, you got it. This one from to appreciate 1598 01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:46.199 your question. Holy smokes, we do have a lot. John 1599 01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:50.039 Rock says, Jesus, Jesus is God. Thanks Jay for winning 1600 01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:54.680 the debate. Jerome Elaine says, So the Baptists historically only 1601 01:20:54.800 --> 01:20:58.119 go back by a guy named John Smith in the 1602 01:20:58.199 --> 01:21:06.479 sixteen hundreds. So was this church doctrines before that? I 1603 01:21:06.520 --> 01:21:08.600 don't know what that means. I don't. 1604 01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:10.640 Yeah, again, they're just they're just saying that my church 1605 01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:12.000 history doesn't go all the way back. 1606 01:21:13.239 --> 01:21:13.399 You know. 1607 01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:16.479 Again, I'm not gonna deny that John Smith is a 1608 01:21:16.520 --> 01:21:19.079 credit as being the first quote Baptist you know, this 1609 01:21:19.279 --> 01:21:21.000 is the label that was given to him. I'm not 1610 01:21:21.079 --> 01:21:25.319 going to deny that the Protestant Reformation isn't trying to 1611 01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:28.880 do things new and opposition to. 1612 01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:31.359 The Catholic Church. 1613 01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:35.359 The Catholic Church got off the rails, and the Protestant 1614 01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:37.640 Reformation was an attempt to go back to the scripture 1615 01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:42.039 and compare their traditions with the scripture. And that's why 1616 01:21:42.119 --> 01:21:45.880 you have a plethora of different things that happen. It's 1617 01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:48.039 not like just Baptists came out or just one group. 1618 01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:51.640 Obviously there was multiple different groups that come out. My 1619 01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:54.760 view is that there was a corruption in the Catholic Church. 1620 01:21:55.239 --> 01:21:56.279 It's corrected by scripture. 1621 01:21:57.079 --> 01:21:58.720 This one from I hate to do that, but just 1622 01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:01.159 because we have so many sort to go rapid speed, 1623 01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:06.600 Laman Ross says Jmi rockhor brother, be gentle. This one 1624 01:22:06.640 --> 01:22:10.840 from Jerome Alain says the KJV sixteen eleven Bible has 1625 01:22:10.960 --> 01:22:12.520 the duderal cannon. 1626 01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:17.319 That's true. It's in the middle. It has apogrypha on 1627 01:22:17.439 --> 01:22:19.600 every single page. It doesn't actually give you like a 1628 01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:21.920 description like all the rest of the text. It's not 1629 01:22:22.159 --> 01:22:26.119 mixed in the so it was clearly set aside, and 1630 01:22:26.319 --> 01:22:29.319 so It definitely was included for historical purposes. 1631 01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:30.479 But are you as canon? 1632 01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:35.159 Are you a monarchist? No? Okay? Why am I supposed 1633 01:22:35.199 --> 01:22:37.079 to care what King James and his scholars did. 1634 01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:40.439 You don't have to if you don't want to. I 1635 01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:41.279 just like the product. 1636 01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:45.319 Why in your review ought we accept your King James version? 1637 01:22:46.840 --> 01:22:49.159 I mean, the King James Bible is eighty five percent 1638 01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:51.960 the work of William Tyndale, and the King James Bible 1639 01:22:52.119 --> 01:22:53.399 is a revision of the Bishop's Bible. 1640 01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:54.439 So it's not just King James. 1641 01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:55.680 Why are we supposed to accept that? 1642 01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:55.960 Why? 1643 01:22:56.960 --> 01:22:57.079 They? 1644 01:22:57.520 --> 01:23:00.199 Again, we understand that the Bible should be in vanacular 1645 01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:02.840 languages or vulgar languages, not there was. 1646 01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:05.279 A there was a Catholic translation before that into English. 1647 01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:06.439 So why are we supposed to accept that. 1648 01:23:07.279 --> 01:23:09.680 They believed that the Latin curate had been correct. 1649 01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:11.800 I don't care what they believed. Asking you, what's the 1650 01:23:11.960 --> 01:23:14.479 argument that that's binding on Christians the original? 1651 01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:16.880 He doesn't match this. 1652 01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:19.560 One from Thomas Hayward says same level of argument as 1653 01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:21.960 Pastor p Well, who's Pastor Pete? 1654 01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:25.159 Somebody I'd debated someone a while. 1655 01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:30.560 Back sixty six book King James Bible. Hey, amen. This 1656 01:23:30.680 --> 01:23:34.000 one from mister Jackson's quote. Christ is not here physically 1657 01:23:34.119 --> 01:23:37.840 unquote literally the Church, dude, the bride of one flesh 1658 01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:40.119 with the Lord. The Bible is not the logos and 1659 01:23:40.319 --> 01:23:44.279 only has authority by being a part of his church's 1660 01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:45.399 holy tradition. 1661 01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:52.399 Any thoughts, Jonathan, I mean, I think that we both 1662 01:23:52.479 --> 01:23:54.039 believe that Jesus Christ is the Word. 1663 01:23:54.199 --> 01:23:56.119 So I don't think we agree with that comment. 1664 01:23:56.920 --> 01:23:59.680 Tony the Baptist says, Pator Shelley is pointing to Scripture 1665 01:23:59.720 --> 01:24:03.079 as his source of authority, where the Orthodox is pointing 1666 01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:05.800 to his church fathers as his source of authority, and 1667 01:24:05.960 --> 01:24:09.119 yet accusing Pastor Shelley of circular reasoning. Oh the irony. 1668 01:24:11.199 --> 01:24:14.119 No. I asked him for a basis for why the 1669 01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:16.479 Protestant can not to be the case, and he admitted 1670 01:24:16.520 --> 01:24:18.840 throughout the debate that he also relies on tradition for 1671 01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:22.439 apostolic authorship. And I asked the question about normandive authority, 1672 01:24:22.479 --> 01:24:25.359 why we ought to accept that in some binding sense, 1673 01:24:25.399 --> 01:24:26.560 and he has no answer for any of that. 1674 01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:31.880 You got it the scripture putting up a poll in 1675 01:24:32.039 --> 01:24:34.000 just a second, So hanging tight, folks. This one coming 1676 01:24:34.039 --> 01:24:36.800 in from Tony the Baptist says, oh no, we got that. 1677 01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:42.319 Amelion Assenic says, question, pastor, can you read two Timothy 1678 01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:48.880 four twelve through thirteen parentheses? What books, Paul he's talking about? 1679 01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:51.479 And could this be oral tradition? 1680 01:24:51.600 --> 01:24:55.680 He was writing, Well, you're talking about preach the word. 1681 01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:58.079 I'm just turning there. But he said two through four, 1682 01:24:58.520 --> 01:25:00.479 preach the word be incident in season, out of season, 1683 01:25:00.520 --> 01:25:01.840 reproved buke exhorbitth. 1684 01:25:01.479 --> 01:25:05.479 All along four twelve through thirteen, Oh. 1685 01:25:05.439 --> 01:25:07.920 Twelve, I'm sorry, and tike a kiss? Have I sent 1686 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:10.600 to Ephesus the cloak that I left at troass with Carpus. 1687 01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:13.479 I don't understand the point of it. I think they 1688 01:25:13.520 --> 01:25:15.199 meant two through four, but I could be wrong. 1689 01:25:16.479 --> 01:25:20.159 Maybe, but it does say two Timothy four twelve through thirteen. 1690 01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:23.880 Mister Jack says the Bible is eternal in all caps. 1691 01:25:24.239 --> 01:25:30.399 Bro really moses eternal? Mary literally Muslim level eternal creation stupidity. 1692 01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:31.840 Only God is eternal. 1693 01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:37.520 Yeah, exactly, forever thy word is settled in heaven. 1694 01:25:37.560 --> 01:25:40.800 Oh Lord? Yeah? Is that the Bible? Yes, so the 1695 01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:42.119 Bible is eternal in heaven. 1696 01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:45.600 This is is a polytheist. Where are the words of 1697 01:25:45.680 --> 01:25:52.159 God in heaven? The exist the second person of Christ. 1698 01:25:52.720 --> 01:25:55.239 They exist in him. So there's multiple eternals. 1699 01:25:55.960 --> 01:25:58.560 Christ is the Word, so he's always existed. Okay, he 1700 01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:00.800 said the words. I don't believe what separate the two. 1701 01:26:01.039 --> 01:26:04.239 Okay, So where's the propositions in the Book of Hebrews 1702 01:26:04.359 --> 01:26:07.960 in eternity? You don't even heaven is something that was 1703 01:26:08.039 --> 01:26:10.560 where heaven is something that's created. So no, I said, 1704 01:26:10.760 --> 01:26:13.039 you said, in eternity, what's heaven? I got to do 1705 01:26:13.119 --> 01:26:15.000 with them? Somebody internity? You literally say, where are the 1706 01:26:15.039 --> 01:26:20.399 Word of God in heaven? You said that in eternity, Yes, 1707 01:26:20.479 --> 01:26:23.000 it's always existed. Christ is the Word. And so the 1708 01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:25.319 Book of Hebrews is from all eternity. 1709 01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:29.439 And always existed. Where in the second person, the. 1710 01:26:29.399 --> 01:26:32.600 Book of Hebrews is not something that was physical bullets, 1711 01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:33.560 but the words. 1712 01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:35.359 This one. 1713 01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:39.840 So the words of Paul are in Christ in all eternity. 1714 01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:43.119 The Word existed before anything was ever created. 1715 01:26:43.199 --> 01:26:45.920 The words of Paul when he when he starts the book, 1716 01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:48.439 Christ knows the in from the and ask if he 1717 01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:53.199 knew it. You said the words themselves, Yes, the words themselves. Okay, 1718 01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:55.479 thank you. This is this is so stupid. 1719 01:26:56.159 --> 01:26:59.439 This one from Rachel Wilson says, does Pastor Jonathan think 1720 01:26:59.479 --> 01:27:01.960 Christ exist said before the incarnation? Does he know where 1721 01:27:02.039 --> 01:27:03.319 Christ was in the Old Testament? 1722 01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:08.039 Yes, Christ existed before the incarnation. He has pre pre 1723 01:27:08.119 --> 01:27:11.800 incarnate appearances. The Bible says in the beginning, was the word. 1724 01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:14.960 He's with God. It's very clear he's he has no origin. 1725 01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:18.239 Is that the Bible? Is that the Bible in Genesis one. 1726 01:27:18.960 --> 01:27:20.960 I don't believe you can separate Christ from the Word. 1727 01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:24.560 You already admitted. And John one that the Word became flesh. 1728 01:27:24.640 --> 01:27:27.199 That's not talking about the Bible. Did the Bible begin flesh? 1729 01:27:27.560 --> 01:27:31.039 I said, it wasn't like the scripture, like the physical pace. 1730 01:27:31.119 --> 01:27:33.479 That's the Bible in my hand, that's the Bible. Christ 1731 01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:36.880 is the Word of God. Yes, Christ is not the book. 1732 01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.640 You think Jesus is a book. No, He's not a 1733 01:27:40.680 --> 01:27:45.119 physical question. That's then the Bible is not eternal. The 1734 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:51.199 physical book is physical. Body is an. 1735 01:27:51.159 --> 01:27:56.880 Eternal Jonathan, give you the last word on this, because 1736 01:27:56.880 --> 01:27:57.520 the question is for you. 1737 01:27:59.479 --> 01:28:00.920 Jesus was incarnated. 1738 01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:03.560 His physical body came into existence in Mary's womb when 1739 01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:06.760 he was conceived. The Bible was obviously a manifestation of 1740 01:28:06.800 --> 01:28:11.279 God's word. That already existed from eternity past where they as. 1741 01:28:11.600 --> 01:28:12.840 I hate to do it, but I got I gotta 1742 01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:14.319 have to give somebody the least er. Mastered by Grace 1743 01:28:14.319 --> 01:28:16.920 says question for Jay, did you say in your opening 1744 01:28:17.000 --> 01:28:19.319 quote of the scriptures are not divine? 1745 01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:20.079 I e. 1746 01:28:20.239 --> 01:28:22.720 And their nature quote? They are not the voice of God. 1747 01:28:23.920 --> 01:28:26.560 No, I said, They're not the divine person of the Sun. 1748 01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:29.800 I said that they are inspired, they are an errant, 1749 01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:33.359 they are theo Neustos, They're God breathed. They are not 1750 01:28:33.720 --> 01:28:36.439 the second person of the Godhead. So this person is 1751 01:28:36.520 --> 01:28:40.640 fundamentally stupid and can't see the difference between the second 1752 01:28:40.720 --> 01:28:44.239 person and the book that describes him. There was a 1753 01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:45.880 quote that Jay said, he said the Bible is a 1754 01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:46.840 created medium. 1755 01:28:46.920 --> 01:28:48.640 It is not divine. That was a direct quote in 1756 01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:49.399 his opening statement. 1757 01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:53.640 It not divine in itself in the sense of being uncreated. 1758 01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:56.920 You believe the Bible's uncreated? You're a Muslim polytheist. 1759 01:28:58.279 --> 01:29:01.680 This one from do appreciate it. JB. Peltier says, Pratts 1760 01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:04.399 act like Jesus ascended and threw the book down on 1761 01:29:04.479 --> 01:29:04.960 his way up. 1762 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:10.520 Correct again, all I get is all he get is 1763 01:29:10.520 --> 01:29:14.039 these ad hom and you're a Muslim, you believe these bizarre. 1764 01:29:14.399 --> 01:29:25.960 Muslim emilitian accentic, says pastor, how do you know that, 1765 01:29:26.159 --> 01:29:29.560 Matthew wrote Matthew, or Mark wrote Mark, or Luke wrote Luke. 1766 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:35.560 He doesn't that tradition. I accepted that that tradition. Okay, exactly, 1767 01:29:36.760 --> 01:29:37.239 you got it. 1768 01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:40.600 Oh wow, we just have this new thing in live 1769 01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:42.840 chat where you can send gifts. We just enabled it. 1770 01:29:42.920 --> 01:29:45.399 Thank you for the gift, Christian Roach. This is new. 1771 01:29:45.479 --> 01:29:48.199 I've never It's got the graphic and everything beautiful. This 1772 01:29:48.319 --> 01:29:54.279 one from Mason Marcus typical w for the king of Wigsantium. 1773 01:29:55.560 --> 01:29:58.840 What the This one from Kevin Blackwell says for Pastor John, 1774 01:29:59.399 --> 01:30:01.760 Jesus says he is one with the Church. Where does 1775 01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:04.079 he say he is one with the Bible? Where does 1776 01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:06.159 the Bible say Jesus left the Bible. 1777 01:30:10.439 --> 01:30:12.520 I don't understand the left the Bible comment. 1778 01:30:12.720 --> 01:30:15.960 But again I'm just gonna be repeating myself, because the 1779 01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:19.760 Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. 1780 01:30:20.039 --> 01:30:22.439 He dwelt among us we beheld his glory. 1781 01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:26.079 The Bible says in First John, chapter number one, it 1782 01:30:26.199 --> 01:30:29.039 says that which was from the beginning which we have heard, 1783 01:30:29.079 --> 01:30:30.439 which you have seen with our eyes, which you have 1784 01:30:30.520 --> 01:30:32.399 looked upon in our hands have handled of the word 1785 01:30:32.439 --> 01:30:35.399 of life. The Bible says that Jesus Christ on written 1786 01:30:35.439 --> 01:30:37.920 on his thigh, when your turns, has the name written 1787 01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:39.560 on his thigh, the Word of God. 1788 01:30:39.760 --> 01:30:43.760 You're equivocating again because this is a created book. And 1789 01:30:43.880 --> 01:30:46.880 obviously when we say the Bible, that means a canon 1790 01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:49.920 or rule or a list of books. Obviously it's talking 1791 01:30:49.960 --> 01:30:53.439 about a book. You believe that there's an eternal Koran 1792 01:30:53.800 --> 01:30:57.039 like the Muslims, which is your KGV, which is idiotic 1793 01:30:57.159 --> 01:31:00.479 and foolish. You already admitted multiple multip time in debate, 1794 01:31:00.520 --> 01:31:02.439 there's a distinction between the word may flesh and the 1795 01:31:02.479 --> 01:31:03.439 book the Bible. 1796 01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:06.119 I said, sometimes the verse is describing a difference, but 1797 01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:07.359 I'm not saying there is a difference. 1798 01:31:08.039 --> 01:31:11.000 So you actually believe that this is Jesus incarnate, No, 1799 01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:13.439 not the physical copy, and you admit that it's a difference, 1800 01:31:13.479 --> 01:31:13.960 you idiot. 1801 01:31:14.680 --> 01:31:16.319 It's the words inside. 1802 01:31:17.479 --> 01:31:21.399 This one from you. Appreciate your question. JB. Peltier strikes again, says, 1803 01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:25.279 human language, paper and bindings are creatures. The world is 1804 01:31:25.319 --> 01:31:29.239 a person who mystically informs human people to write text 1805 01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:36.479 and interpret it true, says. All I'm hearing here is 1806 01:31:36.479 --> 01:31:41.000 a bunch of rigamaro that came from Captain Tazariak, who 1807 01:31:41.159 --> 01:31:44.359 the other night referred to j as JD. Dyer. Jerome 1808 01:31:44.520 --> 01:31:48.680 Elaine says, see how the Protestants argue just like the Muslims. 1809 01:31:50.479 --> 01:31:53.560 Yeah, the belief that there's an eternal book, which is 1810 01:31:53.640 --> 01:31:56.840 what he said multiple times, is literally a rabbinic and 1811 01:31:57.520 --> 01:32:01.399 because it's also rabbinic, it's thus a talmudic in Islamic position. 1812 01:32:01.760 --> 01:32:03.000 Don't you take that? Jonathan? 1813 01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:07.920 The word of God is is eternal? Is this is 1814 01:32:07.960 --> 01:32:08.920 what the scripture says? 1815 01:32:09.279 --> 01:32:10.600 Are you of with? 1816 01:32:10.840 --> 01:32:14.199 He wants to twist the definitions of these words and means. 1817 01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:16.359 You search the scriptures because you think that it is 1818 01:32:16.439 --> 01:32:18.039 in them that you have eternal life. When it's day 1819 01:32:18.039 --> 01:32:20.720 that there witness of me. That's a distinction between the it's. 1820 01:32:20.640 --> 01:32:23.840 Ironic you keep quoting that verse because of our future idiocy, 1821 01:32:24.199 --> 01:32:24.600 and you know. 1822 01:32:24.680 --> 01:32:27.000 Because you don't have salvation, you believe in theosa there 1823 01:32:27.079 --> 01:32:27.199 we go. 1824 01:32:27.319 --> 01:32:30.800 So that's that's all he has. He's so he's great. 1825 01:32:30.840 --> 01:32:34.079 He's about the rage quit. I've never been close to 1826 01:32:34.479 --> 01:32:36.760 is I don't have salvation, So what does that have 1827 01:32:36.840 --> 01:32:39.760 to do with that passage? That's what Jesus Christ is 1828 01:32:39.800 --> 01:32:41.439 telling him to the Pharisees. He said, you should say 1829 01:32:42.199 --> 01:32:46.359 make a dissation. Actually is just like you said, you 1830 01:32:46.399 --> 01:32:49.199 don't make a distinction, separate. Does it make a distinction 1831 01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:53.319 between the scriptures on the word. The scripture teaches that 1832 01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:55.079 the word of God is Christ. The word of that 1833 01:32:55.239 --> 01:32:57.600 passes make John chapter one says the Word of life. 1834 01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:00.159 Does that passes make a distinction between the scripture? Is 1835 01:33:00.159 --> 01:33:00.840 in the person of the word. 1836 01:33:00.960 --> 01:33:03.439 Jesus Christ is appealing to literal parchment that has the 1837 01:33:03.479 --> 01:33:05.199 words written down on them, and he wants called them, 1838 01:33:05.520 --> 01:33:05.920 wants them. 1839 01:33:05.960 --> 01:33:07.600 That's what the Bible is. You're idiot. 1840 01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:10.680 So obviously he's not saying, look at my body and 1841 01:33:11.079 --> 01:33:13.159 figured it out. He's saying, look at the parchment. But 1842 01:33:13.279 --> 01:33:16.319 the thing is he is from the scripture. Transcends that 1843 01:33:17.479 --> 01:33:19.800 he is just from the scriptures. 1844 01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:22.079 No, you, it's you can't understand that. You can't you 1845 01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:25.359 I have a Muslim polytheistic position. How did they handle 1846 01:33:25.399 --> 01:33:28.399 the Word of life and John one? In first John one? 1847 01:33:28.439 --> 01:33:28.760 How did they? 1848 01:33:28.840 --> 01:33:32.239 Because he's in he's incarnate they touched his body. That's 1849 01:33:32.279 --> 01:33:34.199 the word of life. So he's the word of life. 1850 01:33:34.279 --> 01:33:36.560 Amen, Jesus, I think the word of this is. 1851 01:33:36.640 --> 01:33:41.000 The incarnate word of God. You're an idolator. No I did. 1852 01:33:41.279 --> 01:33:43.880 They were the word of touching a person. That is, 1853 01:33:43.960 --> 01:33:46.079 this is not the Word of life was manifested. The 1854 01:33:46.119 --> 01:33:50.239 word was manifested in flesh, not in a book. Amen, 1855 01:33:50.760 --> 01:33:53.840 he wasn't pret That's my argument. But again, you just 1856 01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:56.399 don't believe the word of God in the person in 1857 01:33:57.600 --> 01:33:58.319 not in a book. 1858 01:33:58.399 --> 01:34:02.960 You're a Jew, you are a Muslim. So the Jews 1859 01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:07.600 Jesus Christ was the word. You have the Jews, Jesus 1860 01:34:09.159 --> 01:34:10.720 of the just making stuff up. 1861 01:34:10.760 --> 01:34:13.319 You just make these wild accusations that you have the 1862 01:34:14.039 --> 01:34:16.880 position of am I a Jew for believing Jesus Christ. 1863 01:34:18.359 --> 01:34:21.800 You just made a lie and just ridiculous, railing accusation 1864 01:34:21.880 --> 01:34:22.800 that you can't prove. 1865 01:34:22.680 --> 01:34:25.479 Of the texts and the Muslim the text show me 1866 01:34:25.520 --> 01:34:28.079 a Jew. You are believe Jesus Christ is the word 1867 01:34:28.119 --> 01:34:31.720 of God. You are a Muslim in your Muslim believes 1868 01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:32.399 Jesus Christ. 1869 01:34:32.319 --> 01:34:32.840 Is the Word of God. 1870 01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:36.359 We must move the next one, this one from Jerome Elaine, says, 1871 01:34:36.399 --> 01:34:39.319 see how we got that no name, says Pastor Jonathan 1872 01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:43.119 clearly didn't take the comments under his quote Orthodox. He 1873 01:34:43.239 --> 01:34:48.680 exposed video unquote seriously, this one from Dissent and Resists. 1874 01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:52.199 Don't worry you just like just roll your eyes out it. 1875 01:34:52.279 --> 01:34:53.800 You don't have to give it a response. That's what 1876 01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:56.600 I used to do. But dissent and Resist says so 1877 01:34:56.840 --> 01:35:01.079 by Protestant logic, if Jesus is the Bible, there practically Muslims. 1878 01:35:01.239 --> 01:35:04.359 Because is it not true that Muslims believe that the 1879 01:35:04.439 --> 01:35:08.560 Quran is uncreated while at the same time Allah is uncreated. 1880 01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:10.479 This is pure and utter nonsense. 1881 01:35:11.079 --> 01:35:11.439 Exactly. 1882 01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:13.479 I do want to comment because here's the thing. The 1883 01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:15.800 Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is God. They 1884 01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:21.439 don't believe that Jesus Christ they believe that Jesus. So 1885 01:35:21.720 --> 01:35:23.640 how in the world could be a Muslim They don't believe. 1886 01:35:23.880 --> 01:35:25.760 They do not believe Jesus Christ is the Word of 1887 01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:26.760 God and He's eternal. 1888 01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:30.880 Maximum Adiq here maximum adi q good ad hominem. 1889 01:35:33.680 --> 01:35:34.319 Very impressive. 1890 01:35:38.720 --> 01:35:40.039 We do have to go to the next one. Tony 1891 01:35:40.079 --> 01:35:42.680 the Baptist says, is the Orthodox argument that the Bible 1892 01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:44.000 is not the Word of God. 1893 01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:49.560 No This is equivocation. It is the written testimony to 1894 01:35:49.920 --> 01:35:52.039 the person of the word. You can, in a sense 1895 01:35:52.159 --> 01:35:54.199 call it the word of God. That doesn't mean it's 1896 01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:56.920 the only usage of the Word of God. I've been 1897 01:35:57.000 --> 01:35:58.720 arguing that from the very beginning. This person is just 1898 01:35:58.840 --> 01:36:01.479 fundamently too stupid to make a distinction, which he's already 1899 01:36:01.479 --> 01:36:02.319 admitted multiple times. 1900 01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:06.119 He has to make this one from Kevin Blackwell, says, 1901 01:36:06.720 --> 01:36:11.199 question for Pastor John, you said the KJB has produced fruit. 1902 01:36:11.319 --> 01:36:13.920 How many books were in the first KGB. 1903 01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:18.199 It obviously included the apogaphy in a separate section, but 1904 01:36:18.279 --> 01:36:20.680 it has the sixty six plus the apocryph Sure. 1905 01:36:22.359 --> 01:36:22.680 They didn't. 1906 01:36:22.720 --> 01:36:24.000 They did include as canon. 1907 01:36:24.319 --> 01:36:27.000 Not a massad agent says question for Pastor for the 1908 01:36:27.079 --> 01:36:29.920 first one thy five hundred and even today many people 1909 01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:33.199 were illiterate. How does sola scripture apply to the slow 1910 01:36:33.319 --> 01:36:36.079 boys who were unable to read scripture themselves? Do they 1911 01:36:36.159 --> 01:36:36.880 learn from others? 1912 01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:39.600 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. 1913 01:36:39.680 --> 01:36:42.760 So even if you couldn't read, if someone quotes scripture 1914 01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:45.359 or read scripture to you, then you could accept that 1915 01:36:45.520 --> 01:36:49.359 as the word of God. Obviously he just admitted estimate Testament. 1916 01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:52.000 People just amnim Bible out loud and giving the sense 1917 01:36:52.079 --> 01:36:52.920 of the reading, he. 1918 01:36:53.319 --> 01:36:56.239 Admitted, and I do want to let Jonathan finish his 1919 01:36:56.319 --> 01:36:58.119 sentence again. 1920 01:36:58.560 --> 01:37:00.199 You can have someone read the Word of God out 1921 01:37:00.239 --> 01:37:02.079 loud and you can believe it. You don't have to 1922 01:37:02.159 --> 01:37:02.720 be able to read. 1923 01:37:02.920 --> 01:37:05.199 He admitted. My argument at the beginning that when the 1924 01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:07.560 apostles are preaching the oral word of God, as Peter 1925 01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:10.359 says in First Peter, that that is hearing the word 1926 01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:12.600 of God and it's not just reciting the Bible text. 1927 01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:14.800 He admitted that they interpret it, so he's admitting that 1928 01:37:14.920 --> 01:37:16.439 that is the Word of God being preached. 1929 01:37:18.319 --> 01:37:21.319 This one from Do Appreciate Hayden Trent says Paul cannot 1930 01:37:21.359 --> 01:37:26.000 interpret his own own text infallibly. What chance do we have. 1931 01:37:28.039 --> 01:37:29.920 We're guided by the Holy Spirit. Why would we need 1932 01:37:29.960 --> 01:37:32.520 the Holy Spirit if we were infallible? Or if the 1933 01:37:32.600 --> 01:37:35.720 apostle Paul was infallible? Why in One Corinthians chapter seven 1934 01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:37.880 does he have to question whether he has the spirit 1935 01:37:37.960 --> 01:37:40.560 or not if he's infallible in his own personal opinion. 1936 01:37:42.079 --> 01:37:44.199 It's just a flawed argument that doesn't understand the Bible. 1937 01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:47.680 This one from JB. Peltier says acts and epistles are 1938 01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:53.560 that's not it, Sorry about that, dissent and resists as 1939 01:37:53.600 --> 01:37:57.039 if Paul is in error. How on God's green earth 1940 01:37:57.119 --> 01:37:58.800 does sola scriptura hold up? 1941 01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:03.960 What's interesting because you have no central authority, you have 1942 01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:07.239 no pope, and yet several Baptists all believe the same things. 1943 01:38:07.279 --> 01:38:10.199 That's pretty interesting. It's because the scriptures are final authority. 1944 01:38:10.239 --> 01:38:12.159 We read the Scripture and we all come to the 1945 01:38:12.199 --> 01:38:15.079 same conclusions. Because my sheep hear my voice. That's why 1946 01:38:15.640 --> 01:38:16.720 we believe in salvation by. 1947 01:38:18.760 --> 01:38:21.359 Yeah, So can you name somebody in the first fourteen 1948 01:38:21.439 --> 01:38:23.199 hundred years that had your Baptist views? 1949 01:38:24.640 --> 01:38:25.279 Not all of them? 1950 01:38:25.359 --> 01:38:28.079 No, name one. I'm saying they didn't have all of 1951 01:38:28.119 --> 01:38:29.640 my views, and you name one person that had you 1952 01:38:29.720 --> 01:38:31.439 there's not one person that has all of my views. 1953 01:38:31.439 --> 01:38:32.000 I don't believe that. 1954 01:38:32.840 --> 01:38:35.840 So nobody who taught Baptist theology the first fourteen. 1955 01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:37.119 I believe there's plenty of people could point to the 1956 01:38:37.159 --> 01:38:37.960 taught salvation by. 1957 01:38:37.920 --> 01:38:41.279 Faith who taught Baptist theology. I believe there's plenty that 1958 01:38:41.359 --> 01:38:42.039 believed salvation. 1959 01:38:42.079 --> 01:38:44.439 But did anybody did anybody toose Baptist theology the first 1960 01:38:44.439 --> 01:38:48.119 fourteen hundred years probably, but I can't prove it. You 1961 01:38:48.199 --> 01:38:51.039 can't name one. No, thank you. 1962 01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:54.640 This one from to do appreciate your question. 1963 01:38:54.800 --> 01:38:55.000 JB. 1964 01:38:55.079 --> 01:38:59.399 Pelchier says acts and epistles are errant debate over. 1965 01:39:03.159 --> 01:39:05.279 You can't name anybody in the first five hundred years 1966 01:39:05.319 --> 01:39:06.279 doing icons either. 1967 01:39:06.760 --> 01:39:09.279 Sure again whatever, sure aga in Michael Garden has a 1968 01:39:09.279 --> 01:39:11.680 book on icons in the first, second and third century. 1969 01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:14.960 I've been authority. I've been to the kils. No authority 1970 01:39:15.119 --> 01:39:18.199 fallas and example fallacy. You just do what you do right. 1971 01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:22.159 It's not a fallacy to give you a source for documentation. 1972 01:39:22.399 --> 01:39:24.720 That's not a fallacy, idiot. I've been to the catacombs. 1973 01:39:24.720 --> 01:39:26.079 You can go to the catacombs and see in the 1974 01:39:26.119 --> 01:39:29.000 second third century altars and icons in the catacombs in Rome. 1975 01:39:30.439 --> 01:39:32.720 I can build plenty of people, and that's not enough. 1976 01:39:32.720 --> 01:39:36.000 The church fathers that don't look the similar views to me, look. 1977 01:39:36.039 --> 01:39:38.399 For the catacombs. So now you're moving the goalpost. You 1978 01:39:38.439 --> 01:39:40.520 said nobody. You said I had no sources. Have you 1979 01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:41.399 been to the catacombs? 1980 01:39:42.560 --> 01:39:42.600 No? 1981 01:39:43.439 --> 01:39:46.319 Okay, do you think that there's icons and imagery and 1982 01:39:46.640 --> 01:39:49.000 paintings and altars in the catacombs. I believe that in 1983 01:39:49.119 --> 01:39:51.159 seven fifty four A d they do you think they were? 1984 01:39:51.239 --> 01:39:53.760 The catacums? And I don't care what you think about 1985 01:39:54.920 --> 01:39:59.399 I don't care those second estatsment applies to you. There's 1986 01:39:59.560 --> 01:40:03.279 fifty four eight. You said somebody in the first, second, third, 1987 01:40:03.319 --> 01:40:05.399 fourth century about icons, and I gave you an example, 1988 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:07.359 the catacombs in Rome. Have you been there? Do you 1989 01:40:07.399 --> 01:40:11.039 think they exist? I'm sure there was some heretic that 1990 01:40:11.239 --> 01:40:13.960 had icons, but anywhere there's plenty of them. 1991 01:40:14.520 --> 01:40:16.279 Is there anybody from the first and. 1992 01:40:19.159 --> 01:40:19.800 Exactly like you? 1993 01:40:19.880 --> 01:40:20.319 And everything? 1994 01:40:20.600 --> 01:40:25.600 Absolutely? Yes? Name Aarons? Why are you rolling your eyes? 1995 01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:30.920 What about? Have you read Aaron ass? You just cheered 1996 01:40:32.079 --> 01:40:34.119 Church five? Rolled your eyes? Have you read it? 1997 01:40:34.319 --> 01:40:36.359 I don't believe anybody's read all of the writings. I 1998 01:40:36.439 --> 01:40:39.880 didn't ask if you read I've read very select. 1999 01:40:41.279 --> 01:40:44.199 Can you name one of his books? No? Then how 2000 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:46.199 do you know when you rolled your eyes that I 2001 01:40:46.319 --> 01:40:49.359 don't have the same position? Again, it's it's it's a 2002 01:40:49.399 --> 01:40:52.520 difficult argument to uh to really make it. Well, you 2003 01:40:52.640 --> 01:40:54.600 asked me the question, why are you saying your own 2004 01:40:54.680 --> 01:40:55.479 arguments are difficult? 2005 01:40:55.479 --> 01:40:59.560 Idiot questions that are impossible? 2006 01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:01.840 Well, then why do you ask me that if it's 2007 01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:02.640 an impossible Ryan. 2008 01:41:03.399 --> 01:41:06.720 Ryan Barnish says, question for Shelley, how do you know 2009 01:41:07.239 --> 01:41:10.319 that Paul died if the Bible doesn't mention his death. 2010 01:41:12.760 --> 01:41:14.720 It's pointed on the man wants to die. I think 2011 01:41:14.720 --> 01:41:17.039 it's a silly question. I don't think anybody believees. 2012 01:41:16.720 --> 01:41:19.600 Alive Mastered by Grace says for Ja what is the 2013 01:41:19.640 --> 01:41:21.119 spiritual nature of scripture? 2014 01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:26.119 Yeah? I mean all the church fathers described the inspiration 2015 01:41:26.319 --> 01:41:29.039 that the Orthodox Church would adhere to as similar to 2016 01:41:29.159 --> 01:41:31.319 the synergy of the two natures in Christ. So just 2017 01:41:31.399 --> 01:41:33.640 as there's a divine nature synergized in the high set 2018 01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:36.479 of union with the human nature, the human authors have 2019 01:41:36.640 --> 01:41:39.000 a synergy with the Holy Spirit to write the text. 2020 01:41:39.239 --> 01:41:40.680 So they have a human element and they have a 2021 01:41:40.760 --> 01:41:42.920 divine element, and so both are included. And no, I 2022 01:41:42.960 --> 01:41:46.079 don't believe that they're uninspired or I don't think they 2023 01:41:46.119 --> 01:41:48.039 have errors. I said that they're not divine the sense 2024 01:41:48.039 --> 01:41:51.479 of uncreated. There are created texts that men created in history. 2025 01:41:51.520 --> 01:41:56.359 Obviously this one from do appreciate your question dominant for 2026 01:41:56.600 --> 01:42:01.760 Christ who was claiming that dominic You gotta just wait. 2027 01:42:01.840 --> 01:42:04.319 There are other people that have questions to relax. Said, 2028 01:42:04.319 --> 01:42:06.840 for John, if the Bible is eternal, the Bible in 2029 01:42:07.000 --> 01:42:10.760 it the people in it have no free will, including 2030 01:42:10.960 --> 01:42:14.000 the evil they do, or God is eternally bound by 2031 01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:15.359 human choice, which is it. 2032 01:42:16.920 --> 01:42:17.760 I'm not a Calvinist. 2033 01:42:17.760 --> 01:42:19.760 I believe in free will, so I don't know if 2034 01:42:19.800 --> 01:42:23.720 I really could go down that line of thinking. 2035 01:42:23.840 --> 01:42:25.159 I believe that we all have free will. 2036 01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:28.960 So this one from him. You appreciate your question. Hayden 2037 01:42:29.000 --> 01:42:32.520 Trent says, just peace up his Mormon level epistemology for 2038 01:42:32.680 --> 01:42:36.920 knowing the canon. He just said, nobody is infallible, then 2039 01:42:37.119 --> 01:42:39.920 how does he have certainty about the canon himself? Is 2040 01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:43.039 the Holy Spirit's internal guidance also fallible? 2041 01:42:44.680 --> 01:42:48.239 No Holy spirits not fallible, So obviously those who are 2042 01:42:48.279 --> 01:42:50.359 saved have the Holy Spirit abiding inside of them. 2043 01:42:51.359 --> 01:42:55.600 Sheep we gotta give you, gotta give the end of 2044 01:42:55.600 --> 01:42:56.199 the day answer. 2045 01:42:56.600 --> 01:42:59.079 I have to believe what Christ said. Christ said that 2046 01:42:59.199 --> 01:43:03.199 my sheep here my voice that has those who are saved. 2047 01:43:03.199 --> 01:43:07.159 But again, give you the six books specifically we all 2048 01:43:07.239 --> 01:43:08.760 agree on it's it's whether or. 2049 01:43:08.760 --> 01:43:11.199 Not the aposive fallacy. It doesn't know whether or not. 2050 01:43:11.399 --> 01:43:14.720 Jay's you know, cherry pick tradition and cherry pick stream 2051 01:43:14.760 --> 01:43:18.520 of churches is, and there's no cherry picking. He just 2052 01:43:19.279 --> 01:43:22.560 he just uses his private judgment. Erry he believes he's right. 2053 01:43:22.680 --> 01:43:23.439 He's picked the infoul. 2054 01:43:23.520 --> 01:43:27.960 I didn't argue that you said. You said that it's 2055 01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:31.600 a purely subjective judgment that God bro. You said that 2056 01:43:32.239 --> 01:43:33.439 because you're ridiculous. 2057 01:43:35.880 --> 01:43:37.760 Is that if he wants more time to finish that 2058 01:43:38.520 --> 01:43:40.319 it's a person asking him a question. I can't let 2059 01:43:40.399 --> 01:43:44.560 you interrupt while he's trying to answer someone else's question. Jonathan, 2060 01:43:44.560 --> 01:43:45.800 do you have something else you want to add or 2061 01:43:46.319 --> 01:43:46.640 go ahead? 2062 01:43:48.560 --> 01:43:52.640 Well, then all right, I was I was more upset 2063 01:43:52.640 --> 01:43:54.119 about while he was over talking to me when I 2064 01:43:54.239 --> 01:43:56.920 was talking. But because again he doesn't see how silly 2065 01:43:56.960 --> 01:43:59.920 it is to say that the Apostles aired, but when 2066 01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:02.600 he has his own assessment of what the canon is, 2067 01:44:02.720 --> 01:44:04.039 he doesn't air, and he's infallible. 2068 01:44:04.079 --> 01:44:05.560 This is I never said the postles aired, and what 2069 01:44:05.600 --> 01:44:07.119 the books were, I said they made mistakes. 2070 01:44:07.199 --> 01:44:09.239 They don't have there's no list of Apostles having. There's 2071 01:44:09.279 --> 01:44:10.680 no Apostolic list of books. 2072 01:44:12.359 --> 01:44:15.199 You admitted that Peter made a mistake. We both agreed there. 2073 01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:17.640 That's not the same thing as theological and you just agreed. 2074 01:44:17.680 --> 01:44:23.800 It's the same problem. If they didn't tell them what 2075 01:44:23.880 --> 01:44:25.800 to pass down, how did they know? Well it just 2076 01:44:25.840 --> 01:44:27.680 trust me, bro No, I didn't say just trust me, 2077 01:44:27.760 --> 01:44:29.960 bro I have I started referencing things and you said, 2078 01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:31.840 don't go to that who cures You started laughing at 2079 01:44:31.880 --> 01:44:34.119 the church fathers when that's the only way you admit that, 2080 01:44:34.159 --> 01:44:35.680 you go to the tradition of the fathers. So you 2081 01:44:35.840 --> 01:44:36.880 undid your own argument. 2082 01:44:37.640 --> 01:44:39.000 I don't go to the tradition of the fathers to 2083 01:44:39.039 --> 01:44:39.800 decide was canon. 2084 01:44:40.479 --> 01:44:43.880 You admitted that Matthew is known by Apostolic tradition. Yes, 2085 01:44:43.960 --> 01:44:46.920 there are good traditions that have been passed down. It 2086 01:44:46.960 --> 01:44:49.720 doesn't mean that every accept every tradition. Admitted that about 2087 01:44:49.760 --> 01:44:50.239 the canon. 2088 01:44:51.520 --> 01:44:53.239 I admitted that the sixty six books have been. 2089 01:44:53.199 --> 01:44:57.359 Passed down Matthew. Yes, and I said that that's a 2090 01:44:57.399 --> 01:45:01.520 good tradition. There's good traditions tradition. So you rely on 2091 01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:02.319 tradition as well. 2092 01:45:02.800 --> 01:45:05.399 Absolutely, we rely on Church and tradition, but we know 2093 01:45:05.479 --> 01:45:07.760 what we put them in their place. They're subject to Christ. 2094 01:45:09.319 --> 01:45:12.079 You try to elevate man in tradition. This is about Christ. 2095 01:45:12.279 --> 01:45:15.119 This is about what tradition tells us. What goes in 2096 01:45:15.239 --> 01:45:15.720 the Bible? 2097 01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:21.359 Which tradition the one about Matthew. Yeah, again, we agree. 2098 01:45:22.439 --> 01:45:24.840 You're relying on tradition for the Bible. 2099 01:45:25.720 --> 01:45:28.119 You know, you just you just switched. You just switch. 2100 01:45:28.199 --> 01:45:29.000 You're you're moving the Gold. 2101 01:45:29.079 --> 01:45:30.600 I'm not switching anything because I. 2102 01:45:30.640 --> 01:45:33.159 Can agree that the Matthew. I accept that tradition. 2103 01:45:33.680 --> 01:45:37.560 You and I both disagree with about the Why do 2104 01:45:37.640 --> 01:45:41.399 you reject Catholic traditions? No, it's talking about canonicity for 2105 01:45:41.439 --> 01:45:42.199 the Book of Matthew. 2106 01:45:42.319 --> 01:45:44.920 You may reject all kinds of different traditions. 2107 01:45:44.600 --> 01:45:46.159 From what does that have to do with this? I'm 2108 01:45:46.199 --> 01:45:49.760 talking about you relying on tradition for Matthew ethnicity. 2109 01:45:50.399 --> 01:45:54.159 JB. Peltier says Jonathan, all right, Jonathan, it's a very 2110 01:45:54.199 --> 01:45:56.319 serious question. Do you have a demon? Or is your 2111 01:45:56.359 --> 01:46:01.079 head full of rocks? Okay, thank you for taking it. 2112 01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:01.760 Holy Spirit. 2113 01:46:01.840 --> 01:46:05.880 Fride Justin Henley says Gospels and Acts were written in 2114 01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:08.680 sixty five eighty. What scripture was Paul teaching to the 2115 01:46:08.800 --> 01:46:12.560 New Covenant Christians and advising others in the Epistles to teach. 2116 01:46:13.279 --> 01:46:15.479 In the Book of Acts, it references the apostle teaching 2117 01:46:15.479 --> 01:46:18.039 out of the Old Testament. So you know, obviously he 2118 01:46:18.079 --> 01:46:20.079 had the Old Testament scriptures to teach and preach out of. 2119 01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:22.760 He shows them. We have in the Book of Acts, 2120 01:46:22.840 --> 01:46:26.600 chapter number eight, you have them teaching out of the. 2121 01:46:26.600 --> 01:46:29.119 Book of Isaiah. So obviously they have the Old Testament 2122 01:46:29.119 --> 01:46:32.159 scriptures to reference. They have Christ's words that he did 2123 01:46:32.279 --> 01:46:34.680 teach to them, that he spoke to them, so they 2124 01:46:34.760 --> 01:46:37.319 have those that they can rely upon. And obviously you 2125 01:46:37.399 --> 01:46:40.079 have the nutim epistles. Once they're there, they have that 2126 01:46:40.159 --> 01:46:43.039 scripture as well. The Bible teaches that the apostle Paul 2127 01:46:43.159 --> 01:46:46.520 was actually visited and was given words of knowledge. Obviously, 2128 01:46:46.600 --> 01:46:48.640 the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostle Paul and he 2129 01:46:48.760 --> 01:46:50.920 was able to teach and preach scripture. 2130 01:46:51.680 --> 01:46:54.079 If a Mormon comes and says that he has the 2131 01:46:54.199 --> 01:46:56.880 internal testimony of the Holy Spirit telling him that the 2132 01:46:56.920 --> 01:46:59.439 Book of Mormon is supposed to be part of the Bible, 2133 01:47:00.239 --> 01:47:04.000 way that this person can objectively give a criteria by 2134 01:47:04.079 --> 01:47:06.319 which he is correct, and a Mormon is wrong because 2135 01:47:06.319 --> 01:47:08.840 his final quarter of appeal was his own subjective feelings. 2136 01:47:09.640 --> 01:47:11.079 Now, the Book of Mormon doesn't go all the way 2137 01:47:11.119 --> 01:47:15.720 back to the time of Christ. Addition, not internally consistent 2138 01:47:16.520 --> 01:47:17.079 and the book. 2139 01:47:17.119 --> 01:47:20.680 You admitted. You admitted your church doesn't go back. I 2140 01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:23.079 didn't say that my church. I said the scriptures. 2141 01:47:23.119 --> 01:47:25.800 Bro, you can't even you can't even pay scriptures, engage 2142 01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:26.840 with whatsoever. 2143 01:47:27.039 --> 01:47:31.880 You just wild Mormon. You are a Mormon. A Mormon. 2144 01:47:32.079 --> 01:47:34.159 I believe the Scripture. So the sixty six books the 2145 01:47:34.159 --> 01:47:36.720 Old Man didn't come from the the first century? 2146 01:47:37.239 --> 01:47:38.000 Is that what you're claiming? 2147 01:47:38.079 --> 01:47:40.840 Now? You cut down what came down from the first 2148 01:47:41.079 --> 01:47:42.720 I cut down. I said that this you don't believe 2149 01:47:43.760 --> 01:47:46.680 your own stupid KGV had the Deutero canon. You just said, Well, 2150 01:47:46.760 --> 01:47:48.760 they didn't have it fully part of the canon. So 2151 01:47:49.479 --> 01:47:52.479 did Jerome. So did a lot of people didn't accept 2152 01:47:52.560 --> 01:47:56.199 the cherry picking Jerome as if we're supposed to follow Jerome. 2153 01:47:56.279 --> 01:47:58.399 So what I'm not cherry picking. I'm saying there was 2154 01:47:58.439 --> 01:48:00.399 people that by the same thing. Why Jerome. 2155 01:48:00.680 --> 01:48:03.279 There's an example someone that translated into Latin, which became 2156 01:48:03.359 --> 01:48:06.119 a very interational submitted to Roger translation. 2157 01:48:06.239 --> 01:48:08.640 He was one of the most brilliant people that translated. 2158 01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:13.079 He was and he was Catholic. 2159 01:48:13.359 --> 01:48:14.520 We must go to the next one. 2160 01:48:14.720 --> 01:48:15.920 Yes, he was Catholic. Thank you. 2161 01:48:16.079 --> 01:48:18.720 So now you admit that you Catholic, guys, we just. 2162 01:48:18.720 --> 01:48:20.960 Have Well, your confession says that you're Catholic. In the 2163 01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:24.800 sixteen forty seven confession, you call yourself, Yes, I'm proudly 2164 01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:28.039 a name war Bro Orthodox Catholic. You all called yourselves 2165 01:48:28.079 --> 01:48:28.720 Catholic until the. 2166 01:48:30.960 --> 01:48:32.600 Next one. And then what I'm gonna do is I'm 2167 01:48:32.600 --> 01:48:35.399 going to ask if you guys can only do rebuttals 2168 01:48:35.479 --> 01:48:38.159 like once in a great while. So sometimes I'm just 2169 01:48:38.359 --> 01:48:39.880 saying we can't do it this one because we do 2170 01:48:40.000 --> 01:48:42.760 have a ton of questions. Master by Gray says Jay, 2171 01:48:42.880 --> 01:48:44.640 what did Paul use to correct Peter? 2172 01:48:46.840 --> 01:48:51.000 There's nothing about referring to scripture that that necessitates or 2173 01:48:51.039 --> 01:48:55.479 requires sola scriptura. In fact, in the councils, the scriptures 2174 01:48:55.520 --> 01:48:59.399 are given premiacy, typically an argumentation, so I can believe 2175 01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:02.439 in moremultiple authorities, and I can also believe within the 2176 01:49:02.479 --> 01:49:05.159 scriptures there's a tear of authority. That does not equates 2177 01:49:05.199 --> 01:49:07.760 as a non sequator to say that it's sola scriptura. 2178 01:49:08.840 --> 01:49:10.560 He didn't answer the question, Yes I did. 2179 01:49:10.680 --> 01:49:13.760 I said that appealing to scripture does not equate to 2180 01:49:14.039 --> 01:49:16.319 sola scripture. That is your non sequator. 2181 01:49:17.560 --> 01:49:20.079 This one coming on from do appreciate your question. Hayden 2182 01:49:20.119 --> 01:49:23.199 Trent says, is the divine voice fallible or infallible? Either way, 2183 01:49:23.319 --> 01:49:24.600 sola scriptura is false. 2184 01:49:26.159 --> 01:49:29.319 The divine voice is obviously infallible. It's God, so obviously 2185 01:49:29.359 --> 01:49:32.560 it would be in God speaks to you. I do 2186 01:49:32.640 --> 01:49:34.119 not believe he audibly speaks to me at all. I 2187 01:49:34.159 --> 01:49:36.039 believe you said the divine voice told you the canon. 2188 01:49:36.079 --> 01:49:37.720 You said, the divine voice told you the canon. 2189 01:49:37.760 --> 01:49:41.359 Only through the scripture. I don't think then, I doesn't 2190 01:49:41.359 --> 01:49:41.960 tell you the canon. 2191 01:49:42.039 --> 01:49:43.279 Did you even listen to the words that I said? 2192 01:49:43.279 --> 01:49:45.199 It doesn't. Did I say that God doesn't speak to 2193 01:49:45.239 --> 01:49:48.239 me audibly? Does the Bible tell you the canon? You 2194 01:49:48.279 --> 01:49:50.439 don't even listen? Does the Bible tell you the canon? 2195 01:49:51.199 --> 01:49:53.800 The Bible tells me that I'm gonna hear God's voice. 2196 01:49:53.640 --> 01:49:57.319 The cannon, the canon? Which canon there is? Just like 2197 01:49:57.399 --> 01:49:59.560 it says, there's So that's why you said the voice 2198 01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:02.800 or that church or your which divine voice, tradition? Which 2199 01:50:02.880 --> 01:50:07.760 divine voice? The scripture itself? The question is which scripture? 2200 01:50:08.920 --> 01:50:09.560 Do you understand? 2201 01:50:09.560 --> 01:50:10.600 There's an author to a book? 2202 01:50:11.800 --> 01:50:14.800 Which divine voice is telling you? Which canon of scripture? 2203 01:50:14.920 --> 01:50:20.439 The scripture is the divine, divine God. Where in the 2204 01:50:20.479 --> 01:50:23.119 scriptures does it tell you the canon? This is really 2205 01:50:23.159 --> 01:50:25.199 hard for you. Does the scripture to understand that there's 2206 01:50:25.199 --> 01:50:27.079 an author to a book? Does the scripture tell you 2207 01:50:27.119 --> 01:50:28.920 men of God spake as they're moved by the Holy Ghost? 2208 01:50:29.279 --> 01:50:32.159 The scripture tell you the canon? No, I already answered, 2209 01:50:32.279 --> 01:50:36.199 thank you. It doesn't tell you the canon Church, so 2210 01:50:36.520 --> 01:50:38.920 it doesn't. You're appealing to you, so you don't have 2211 01:50:39.039 --> 01:50:39.560 yourself again? 2212 01:50:39.560 --> 01:50:42.079 Okay. This one from Marilyn says, you both would have 2213 01:50:42.079 --> 01:50:44.159 followed Lucifer out of heaven because you need a master, 2214 01:50:44.319 --> 01:50:48.720 not a lover and a friend. Okay. Josh Laurence says okay. 2215 01:50:49.279 --> 01:50:54.159 Vobe says, question for Jonathan, without appealing to the masses 2216 01:50:54.279 --> 01:50:57.399 or special pleading by what authority is my Chinese takeout menu? 2217 01:50:57.680 --> 01:50:59.840 Which is divine? Not the word of God? 2218 01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:00.920 Well? 2219 01:51:01.000 --> 01:51:02.359 Number one, it doesn't even claim to be the word 2220 01:51:02.359 --> 01:51:04.640 of God. Number two, it doesn't have the same divine 2221 01:51:04.720 --> 01:51:05.800 voice as the rest of scripture. 2222 01:51:05.920 --> 01:51:06.279 Number three. 2223 01:51:06.319 --> 01:51:09.199 It wasn't received by Christians. I mean, it doesn't fail. 2224 01:51:09.279 --> 01:51:12.760 It doesn't pass any of the tests that the Christians 2225 01:51:12.800 --> 01:51:15.399 that are received. Even if you can see that all 2226 01:51:15.520 --> 01:51:19.760 Catholics all Orthodox and all Protestants include the Christians so 2227 01:51:19.880 --> 01:51:22.199 called they all reject. 2228 01:51:22.279 --> 01:51:24.520 Doesn't matter that they all do it. It matters what 2229 01:51:24.840 --> 01:51:27.560 basis they do it, Which is the Apostolic tradition? You 2230 01:51:27.760 --> 01:51:30.159 have no, basically just said that it wasn't passed down 2231 01:51:30.199 --> 01:51:35.600 from Christians. Christians didn't receive it. What Christians any who? Zero? 2232 01:51:36.079 --> 01:51:40.600 What Christians accepted this Chinese menu? Zero? No. He's arguing 2233 01:51:40.680 --> 01:51:43.479 that if the canon is fallible, then you can add 2234 01:51:43.520 --> 01:51:51.279 new books to it. This theory in theory, Yes, the 2235 01:51:51.359 --> 01:51:55.960 cannon is fallible, but I do believe believe. 2236 01:51:56.760 --> 01:51:59.720 Mason Marcus says, stop, He's already dead. Rock on steady 2237 01:52:00.199 --> 01:52:04.399 stead He says, question for pastor, Jesus observed the feast 2238 01:52:04.520 --> 01:52:09.039 of dedication in tradition and deuterol canon, not the Protestant canon. 2239 01:52:09.279 --> 01:52:09.840 Does this show? 2240 01:52:09.880 --> 01:52:14.760 He affirmed, both, can you read that one more time? 2241 01:52:14.800 --> 01:52:19.239 I'm sorry, no problem. They say Jesus observed the feast 2242 01:52:19.319 --> 01:52:24.039 of dedication in tradition and Juduro canon, not the Protestant canon. 2243 01:52:24.279 --> 01:52:24.920 Does this show? 2244 01:52:24.960 --> 01:52:29.000 He affirmed, both, I believe that Jesus obviously followed the 2245 01:52:29.079 --> 01:52:32.119 traditions that are taught in the Old Testament, and there 2246 01:52:32.199 --> 01:52:34.800 was good traditions in those he did not observe the 2247 01:52:34.840 --> 01:52:37.159 traditions of the elders, as they rebuked him for it. 2248 01:52:37.479 --> 01:52:39.920 And I see there's zero evidence that he followed the 2249 01:52:40.640 --> 01:52:44.079 apocrypha in any way. That's just not true. 2250 01:52:44.399 --> 01:52:48.479 Yeah, I have a whole article from all Protestant scholars 2251 01:52:49.119 --> 01:52:53.439 affirming and admitting that the Deutero Canon, which the Apostles 2252 01:52:53.479 --> 01:52:58.239 almost entirely used and cited in many cases the Deutero Canon. 2253 01:52:58.640 --> 01:53:00.680 So I will put that into the chain. Would I 2254 01:53:00.720 --> 01:53:02.680 would love Can we just do your number one point? 2255 01:53:02.720 --> 01:53:04.880 Because I've read your article and your number one point 2256 01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:07.359 is so ridiculous that if anybody can believe. 2257 01:53:07.159 --> 01:53:09.159 That nobody cares what you think is ridiculous because you 2258 01:53:09.199 --> 01:53:13.159 made yourself ridiculous tonight and and the article that shut up. 2259 01:53:13.279 --> 01:53:16.319 In the article, I have the link right there. You 2260 01:53:16.399 --> 01:53:18.520 can read all the Protestant scholars that make the sky 2261 01:53:18.600 --> 01:53:19.279 look ridiculous. 2262 01:53:19.640 --> 01:53:21.479 I'll give you the last word on that. Jonathan sends 2263 01:53:21.479 --> 01:53:22.319 the questions. 2264 01:53:22.000 --> 01:53:23.439 For you appeal to authority. 2265 01:53:23.439 --> 01:53:26.000 If we look at the first example, he has Ecclesiasticus 2266 01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:30.520 chapter number eleven as saying that it's quoting Second John one, 2267 01:53:30.640 --> 01:53:33.680 verse ten and Ecclesiastics is eleven, Verse thirty one says 2268 01:53:33.720 --> 01:53:35.680 for Eliath and wade, and turn it good and evil, 2269 01:53:35.760 --> 01:53:38.560 and in things worthy praise will lay blame upon the 2270 01:53:38.920 --> 01:53:41.039 second John one ten, if there come any under you, 2271 01:53:41.079 --> 01:53:42.560 and bring not this doctor and receive him not in 2272 01:53:42.560 --> 01:53:44.640 your house, neither bit of God speed. These aren't even 2273 01:53:44.680 --> 01:53:47.560 on the same planet. They're not referencing each other whatsoever. 2274 01:53:47.960 --> 01:53:50.119 And this is his number one proof. Now it's not 2275 01:53:50.239 --> 01:53:51.760 that that's the horrific scholarship. 2276 01:53:51.840 --> 01:53:55.119 This person is so stupid that I want to believe 2277 01:53:55.119 --> 01:53:57.680 that they're quoting prom JB. 2278 01:53:57.800 --> 01:54:05.039 Person here says Rabbinical Judaism didn't exists yet. Jonathan, say 2279 01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:10.640 that again, Rabbinical Judaism didn't exist yet, Jonathan. 2280 01:54:11.520 --> 01:54:13.520 Before the time of Christ. Yeah, I don't. I believe 2281 01:54:13.560 --> 01:54:15.319 that the talmut is post Christ. 2282 01:54:16.319 --> 01:54:23.199 Hayden Frent says, Divine voice told me Apocrypha is scripture. Obviously, 2283 01:54:24.159 --> 01:54:27.239 go ahead, go ahead, says Pastor. Where do you find 2284 01:54:27.319 --> 01:54:29.279 Pharisees in Old Testament? Same for j. 2285 01:54:32.600 --> 01:54:33.479 Where I find them? 2286 01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:35.760 That the Pharisees are just brought up multiple times in 2287 01:54:35.840 --> 01:54:39.479 the Bible as people that had gone deviant from the 2288 01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:41.880 Word of God, and they were teaching their traditions above 2289 01:54:41.920 --> 01:54:44.680 the scripture, so you see that in the Catholic churches. 2290 01:54:45.399 --> 01:54:48.359 So again he lied about my argument. My argument does 2291 01:54:48.439 --> 01:54:51.840 not begin with Ecclesiasticus. In my first article about the 2292 01:54:51.880 --> 01:54:55.119 canon of Scripture and refuting the Protestant view, I cite 2293 01:54:55.479 --> 01:54:59.000 nothing but Protestant scholars all the way down. There's nothing 2294 01:54:59.119 --> 01:55:02.359 relying upon Ecclesiasticus. And he thinks that because an argument 2295 01:55:02.479 --> 01:55:05.239 is first, it's the strongest. This is a stupid person. 2296 01:55:05.560 --> 01:55:07.439 Here's the article right there, you can read it. All 2297 01:55:07.479 --> 01:55:11.359 it is is a Protestant scholars proving and admitting that 2298 01:55:11.680 --> 01:55:14.520 the deuterocanonical texts are in the septuagen and that's what 2299 01:55:14.600 --> 01:55:16.840 the apostles use. That's not an argument. That's not an 2300 01:55:16.880 --> 01:55:21.439 appeal to authority to bring in authorities, you idiots. 2301 01:55:21.520 --> 01:55:24.439 I'm going from line of Judah of fifty six. Question 2302 01:55:24.560 --> 01:55:26.720 for John, how do you get an infallible New Testament 2303 01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:30.439 canon with a fallible church slash consuls seems like a paradox. 2304 01:55:31.359 --> 01:55:33.199 Well, of course, we got the Scripture of themselves from 2305 01:55:33.199 --> 01:55:35.600 fallible man. The Bible teaches that holy men of God 2306 01:55:36.000 --> 01:55:37.640 spake as they were moved by the Holy ghosts. None 2307 01:55:37.680 --> 01:55:40.479 of them were perfect. They all admitted they had mistakes. 2308 01:55:40.880 --> 01:55:42.920 At the end of the day, we have to recognize 2309 01:55:42.960 --> 01:55:46.079 that mankind is a sinner. Why would I believe if 2310 01:55:46.199 --> 01:55:49.000 every single person's a sinner that if you added enough 2311 01:55:49.079 --> 01:55:51.279 of them together, they would magically not be a center 2312 01:55:51.520 --> 01:55:54.960 or now magically be infallible like some spiritual megatron. 2313 01:55:55.600 --> 01:55:58.000 So he just admitted that the canon of Scripture itself 2314 01:55:58.199 --> 01:56:00.359 is fallible a few minutes ago, right, So it's a 2315 01:56:00.760 --> 01:56:03.159 it's a fallible collection of infallible books, as they like 2316 01:56:03.199 --> 01:56:04.560 to say, and that undoes this position. 2317 01:56:06.039 --> 01:56:07.960 I said that someone can get it wrong, not that 2318 01:56:08.079 --> 01:56:12.479 the Canaan's in is fallible, says question. 2319 01:56:12.399 --> 01:56:14.640 To Jay, do the oral traditions of the true Orthodox 2320 01:56:14.720 --> 01:56:17.159 have validity? If no, how do you know that? 2321 01:56:19.159 --> 01:56:21.159 I don't know what she's What group is he talking about? 2322 01:56:21.199 --> 01:56:23.680 I mean, is he talking about just Orthodox in general 2323 01:56:24.399 --> 01:56:26.479 or is he talking about a small schismatic group. 2324 01:56:28.960 --> 01:56:32.640 Go ahead, as the Protestant asked the Protestant if he 2325 01:56:32.760 --> 01:56:34.279 knows who Saint Polycarp is. 2326 01:56:36.039 --> 01:56:36.239 I'm not. 2327 01:56:36.359 --> 01:56:38.079 I'm not super familiar with him now, so. 2328 01:56:38.159 --> 01:56:40.079 He doesn't know one of the most famous post Apostolic 2329 01:56:40.159 --> 01:56:42.680 fathers has no idea. What the first second third century 2330 01:56:42.760 --> 01:56:43.760 church father's teacher. 2331 01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:50.439 Mister Lucky Man says, Okay, free Mason j has cooked 2332 01:56:51.000 --> 01:56:54.399 third free Mason, all right, Just snake Foot says I 2333 01:56:54.640 --> 01:56:58.479 f B equals sovereign citizen. They get pulled over, pull 2334 01:56:58.520 --> 01:57:01.039 out the Constitution until the cop the text itself is 2335 01:57:01.079 --> 01:57:02.840 the final authority, not the courts. 2336 01:57:04.399 --> 01:57:06.880 Well, that is true that if a cop violates the Constitution, 2337 01:57:07.000 --> 01:57:07.600 he'd be wrong. 2338 01:57:07.760 --> 01:57:12.439 But you know whatever, that doesn't make the expositor of 2339 01:57:12.600 --> 01:57:15.399 the constitution the final authority. The Supreme Court ends up 2340 01:57:15.399 --> 01:57:18.439 being the final authority, which is old. This would disprose 2341 01:57:18.520 --> 01:57:19.159 this whole position. 2342 01:57:21.199 --> 01:57:24.119 Yeah, because the Supreme courts never overruled themselves and made mistakes. 2343 01:57:24.159 --> 01:57:25.640 Oh wait, they did, just like your church. 2344 01:57:26.079 --> 01:57:28.359 It's an analogy, idiot. When did the Orthodox Church? I 2345 01:57:28.399 --> 01:57:30.640 just applied your own analogy. When do we make a mistake? 2346 01:57:31.279 --> 01:57:34.279 Seven fifty four AD he said icons are blasphemous seven 2347 01:57:34.319 --> 01:57:38.600 eighty seven. That was an emperors It was an empress's council. 2348 01:57:38.720 --> 01:57:39.359 That's not true. 2349 01:57:40.720 --> 01:57:44.840 Oh so the Empress Irene, this lady comes in and says, hey, guys, 2350 01:57:44.920 --> 01:57:46.640 you have to change your position or you're no longer 2351 01:57:46.680 --> 01:57:49.359 a bishop and then they just all magically decided to 2352 01:57:49.439 --> 01:57:50.119 switch positions. 2353 01:57:50.199 --> 01:57:52.760 Yeah, the same people in the same people who determine 2354 01:57:52.800 --> 01:57:53.680 you canon, You idiot. 2355 01:57:54.439 --> 01:57:56.159 You need Empress Irene to tell you what's right. 2356 01:57:57.079 --> 01:58:00.399 She's the one that had the false council. You just 2357 01:58:00.479 --> 01:58:02.000 got that wrong seven eighty seven. 2358 01:58:02.159 --> 01:58:04.760 Impress Irene is the one that brought the icons in, 2359 01:58:05.239 --> 01:58:07.760 and you're wrong about your fact there. 2360 01:58:08.199 --> 01:58:12.479 Number two. The fact that she put pressure on these 2361 01:58:12.600 --> 01:58:15.520 bishops to go ahead and change their position or they 2362 01:58:15.520 --> 01:58:18.319 were going to lose their bishopric is just another fact. 2363 01:58:18.560 --> 01:58:21.039 So of course with all that political excuse me, No, 2364 01:58:21.159 --> 01:58:24.479 you're right, I just misstated. It's not Empress Irene. It's 2365 01:58:25.000 --> 01:58:29.079 the Council of her era was a false council because 2366 01:58:29.520 --> 01:58:32.840 it was rejecting the previous councils and their teachings. It's 2367 01:58:32.880 --> 01:58:36.399 not false. I'm saying that the imperial power was behind 2368 01:58:36.439 --> 01:58:38.479 the council. That is, it is the wrong I did 2369 01:58:38.640 --> 01:58:41.479 a reference to the wrong person, but that was convoked 2370 01:58:41.479 --> 01:58:42.960 by Constantina fifth, not Irene. 2371 01:58:44.560 --> 01:58:46.960 This one from do you appreciate your question? Snake? What's 2372 01:58:47.119 --> 01:58:49.800 we got that? Tyler Ross Taylor Ross ays question for 2373 01:58:49.920 --> 01:58:54.000 Jonathan can you prove the perspecuity of scripture using sola 2374 01:58:54.079 --> 01:58:59.800 scriptura without assuming that the scripture is perspicuous, because that 2375 01:59:00.039 --> 01:59:01.239 would be circular logic. 2376 01:59:02.680 --> 01:59:06.920 I've agreed that my position's a circular I've never denied that. 2377 01:59:07.119 --> 01:59:09.680 I do believe that the scripture is self authenticating, and 2378 01:59:09.960 --> 01:59:12.920 the scripture talks about being preserved. So if I believe 2379 01:59:13.039 --> 01:59:15.560 that the scripture is preserved, then I would have to 2380 01:59:15.640 --> 01:59:17.520 believe that there's a book out there that's been preserved. 2381 01:59:17.560 --> 01:59:19.640 That's why I use the King Jame's Bible, because it's 2382 01:59:19.640 --> 01:59:21.720 based on the Hebrew and the Greek, which has been preserved, 2383 01:59:22.039 --> 01:59:25.359 and so therefore we have a preserved Bible in English today. 2384 01:59:26.159 --> 01:59:29.319 How do you know that the rabbinic proto masoretic is right? 2385 01:59:30.680 --> 01:59:34.239 Well, the King J's Bible does deviate very very seldom 2386 01:59:34.279 --> 01:59:36.239 but a few times from the Mazretic, but they don't 2387 01:59:36.279 --> 01:59:39.079 deviate from the consonental vowels of the Hebrew text. 2388 01:59:39.560 --> 01:59:42.520 So you no what I'm saying that the masoretic listing 2389 01:59:42.680 --> 01:59:44.199 of the canon. How do you know that's correct? 2390 01:59:45.520 --> 01:59:47.560 Well, I just said that they don't always use the 2391 01:59:47.640 --> 01:59:49.319 masoretic vowel pointings, and you. 2392 01:59:49.439 --> 01:59:53.520 Said earlier in the debate that it's the Rabbinic canon 2393 01:59:53.560 --> 01:59:55.000 that you use for the Old Testament. How do we 2394 01:59:55.079 --> 01:59:55.279 know that? 2395 01:59:57.159 --> 01:59:58.520 You're putting words in my mouth? 2396 01:59:58.760 --> 01:59:59.359 Oh, you said that. 2397 01:59:59.600 --> 02:00:02.039 I didn't say anything about They said the Hebrew canon. 2398 02:00:02.239 --> 02:00:05.960 That's the Rabbinic that's whatever. You said that Hebrew had 2399 02:00:06.039 --> 02:00:06.479 the canon. 2400 02:00:06.840 --> 02:00:09.239 You said the Hebrew canon, and you thought that that 2401 02:00:09.520 --> 02:00:12.199 was just the Hebrew canon. That's actually the Rabbinic canon. 2402 02:00:12.920 --> 02:00:18.760 We used the Hebrew Continental vows period. Talking about that, 2403 02:00:19.119 --> 02:00:21.840 you just not understanding textual criticism. You're not a textual 2404 02:00:21.920 --> 02:00:23.520 credit at the point you did? You did you didn't 2405 02:00:23.520 --> 02:00:24.000 want to go to there? 2406 02:00:24.000 --> 02:00:25.319 You know not. Are you a textual critic? 2407 02:00:25.840 --> 02:00:28.199 I'm just explaining to you. Are you did not graviate 2408 02:00:28.319 --> 02:00:31.359 from the Hebrew consonant? Are you we deviate from the masoretic? 2409 02:00:31.439 --> 02:00:31.840 Are you in. 2410 02:00:31.920 --> 02:00:33.239 Textual seldom points? 2411 02:00:33.520 --> 02:00:34.640 Are you a textual critic? 2412 02:00:35.039 --> 02:00:36.880 I think everybody employs textual criticisms. 2413 02:00:36.920 --> 02:00:40.920 Are you are you text Are you a textual critic? 2414 02:00:41.359 --> 02:00:45.199 Everyone is, Oh my god, this one coming in from 2415 02:00:45.319 --> 02:00:48.640 Do appreciate your question? Hayden frend says, without Church fathers, 2416 02:00:48.680 --> 02:00:51.119 you wouldn't have scripture. God did not hand down the 2417 02:00:51.159 --> 02:00:53.439 KGV in sixteen hundred. 2418 02:00:54.520 --> 02:00:56.640 I already addressed that I believe Christians handed down the 2419 02:00:56.880 --> 02:00:58.840 manuscripts that they were delivered from people. 2420 02:00:58.640 --> 02:01:01.359 That he thinks are heretics. People that he thinks are heretics, 2421 02:01:01.439 --> 02:01:03.319 is who gave him the Bible. He relies on his 2422 02:01:03.680 --> 02:01:06.399 our tradition. And then he calls us heretics. But he's 2423 02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:09.119 a heretic, describes and the Pharisees weren't even saved, and 2424 02:01:09.159 --> 02:01:11.800 they were able to copy the Bible. And again additionally, 2425 02:01:12.079 --> 02:01:15.680 a machine can copy this Bible. No person copied this, 2426 02:01:16.560 --> 02:01:19.119 So no person, what are you talking about? 2427 02:01:19.359 --> 02:01:21.560 This is a mean by a machine. A machine can 2428 02:01:21.640 --> 02:01:22.920 copy a manuscript. 2429 02:01:23.000 --> 02:01:25.119 That was talking about the first fourteen hundred years, you idiot, 2430 02:01:25.159 --> 02:01:27.279 We're not talking about now exactly. 2431 02:01:26.960 --> 02:01:30.239 Christians were copying the Bible. But it doesn't matter who 2432 02:01:30.680 --> 02:01:32.319 were not saved and they copied the Old. 2433 02:01:32.159 --> 02:01:34.720 Test Were those Christians in those centries? Yeah, but Jesus 2434 02:01:34.760 --> 02:01:36.840 said that the Holy Spirit would not leave his church, right, 2435 02:01:38.079 --> 02:01:40.800 I don't believe it has, okay in those centuries, the 2436 02:01:40.800 --> 02:01:42.239 first fourteen hundred years, did it leave? 2437 02:01:43.039 --> 02:01:43.079 No? 2438 02:01:43.680 --> 02:01:46.479 Okay? So where were the representative truth Theologians and Christians? 2439 02:01:46.560 --> 02:01:48.239 According to you? Then I don't. 2440 02:01:48.239 --> 02:01:51.439 I don't have this like unbroken genealogy that I'm okay. 2441 02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:53.279 So the church can die? Did you did Jesus say 2442 02:01:53.319 --> 02:01:55.640 Matthew eighteen that the church obviously didn't die. I'm still 2443 02:01:55.640 --> 02:02:00.279 here Matthew sixteen eighteen. No, in those centuries. In Matthew 2444 02:02:00.319 --> 02:02:02.600 sixteen sixteen eighteen, Jesus said the gates of Hill would 2445 02:02:02.600 --> 02:02:04.039 not prevail against the Church, and he would be with 2446 02:02:04.119 --> 02:02:06.279 the Church according to the end of the age through 2447 02:02:06.319 --> 02:02:09.000 the Holy Spirit. So where were the true believers in 2448 02:02:09.079 --> 02:02:10.399 those first fourteen hundred years? 2449 02:02:11.279 --> 02:02:14.920 I believe that Christians always existed period, regardless of name 2450 02:02:15.039 --> 02:02:19.239 or some representative bodies or people. There's there's all kinds 2451 02:02:19.279 --> 02:02:20.760 of groups that were outside the Catholic. 2452 02:02:20.479 --> 02:02:23.560 Trae name some that you believe that weren't Novationists or 2453 02:02:24.000 --> 02:02:24.680 all bageiner. 2454 02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:26.119 I don't like point I don't like pointing to these 2455 02:02:26.159 --> 02:02:26.760 hair because. 2456 02:02:26.560 --> 02:02:29.039 You don't have any because you don't have anybody. Again, 2457 02:02:29.159 --> 02:02:31.760 So you made your own sect? How did I make 2458 02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:33.880 my own sect? You have no connection with the Church 2459 02:02:33.920 --> 02:02:35.319 of history. You just made up a church. Did I 2460 02:02:35.439 --> 02:02:39.640 make up Baptists? Now? The Baptists are made up? Idiot? Okay? 2461 02:02:40.000 --> 02:02:42.319 How are they made up. Where were they in the 2462 02:02:42.359 --> 02:02:43.439 first fourteen hundred years? 2463 02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:49.039 Again, where within the first fourteen hundred years? Where was 2464 02:02:49.079 --> 02:02:52.319 your your Worthodox tradition is changing constantly, that's. 2465 02:02:52.600 --> 02:02:53.560 Tradition is changing. 2466 02:02:53.840 --> 02:02:54.399 It's not you. 2467 02:02:55.600 --> 02:02:58.800 You can't first out anybody in the second century that 2468 02:02:58.920 --> 02:03:01.039 has some that they're kissing. 2469 02:03:00.840 --> 02:03:02.159 And worshiping in here. 2470 02:03:02.439 --> 02:03:06.319 Rachel Wilson says, Jonathan's argument is, quote you know it 2471 02:03:06.399 --> 02:03:09.239 when you see it unquote. Then why don't any of 2472 02:03:09.319 --> 02:03:12.279 the different dozens or hundreds of Protestant churches agree on 2473 02:03:12.359 --> 02:03:15.000 what scripture says? They all disagree. So how is the 2474 02:03:15.079 --> 02:03:18.359 canon of scripture or it's meaning self evident? 2475 02:03:19.560 --> 02:03:22.079 Well, the Bible talks about divisions coming from heresy. Obviously, 2476 02:03:22.079 --> 02:03:25.039 there's tons of heretics. There's horrific Protestant churches out there. 2477 02:03:25.239 --> 02:03:27.640 The Orthodox, why did they split from Coptic? Why did 2478 02:03:27.680 --> 02:03:31.680 the Catholic separate from the Orthodox? Obviously people have divisions. 2479 02:03:32.039 --> 02:03:33.880 You know, why is there the Russian Orthodox? Why is 2480 02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:34.760 there the Greek Orthodox? 2481 02:03:34.920 --> 02:03:36.600 Those claim. 2482 02:03:38.319 --> 02:03:41.399 Divisions obviously. You know he wants to sit here and 2483 02:03:41.439 --> 02:03:45.319 claim he doesn't there's no such thing as this. We 2484 02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:47.840 quote agree, it's just as soon as you don't agree 2485 02:03:47.920 --> 02:03:50.119 with Jay's position. You're just kicked out of the cloud. 2486 02:03:50.159 --> 02:03:51.399 This is total Scotsman. 2487 02:03:51.680 --> 02:03:55.199 So he doesn't even know that the Orthodox are those 2488 02:03:55.239 --> 02:03:58.039 are liturgical national churches. They're not disagreements. 2489 02:03:58.960 --> 02:04:02.279 Were they having a liturgical service and people's houses in 2490 02:04:02.399 --> 02:04:03.439 the first entry. 2491 02:04:03.600 --> 02:04:06.000 Yes, they were with the icons. Yes, you can read 2492 02:04:06.039 --> 02:04:08.680 the scholarship on that, like you don't even know you 2493 02:04:08.720 --> 02:04:11.079 look up the Diary Europe Center. Your letergy on a 2494 02:04:11.119 --> 02:04:12.760 Sunday morning, doesn't eve read from the Old Testament and 2495 02:04:12.760 --> 02:04:14.840 the possible is preaching the Old Testament the Book of Acts. 2496 02:04:15.399 --> 02:04:18.039 It's silly to think they're having this liturgical service, you 2497 02:04:18.199 --> 02:04:22.800 understand product Greek scholars admit this. You're laughing with your 2498 02:04:22.840 --> 02:04:25.680 smug So some random person said it. It must be true. 2499 02:04:26.039 --> 02:04:32.680 Random scholars some like just be true, like Anglican literagist scholars. 2500 02:04:33.439 --> 02:04:35.239 Brigham Young said it, So it must be true? Right? 2501 02:04:36.520 --> 02:04:41.239 What this one I'm admitting I was that different saying 2502 02:04:41.279 --> 02:04:43.800 something true Protestant academics. 2503 02:04:44.600 --> 02:04:47.159 This one from do you appreciate It? Dissent and Resist 2504 02:04:47.199 --> 02:04:50.359 says I'm not a Catholic, but I'm going to appeal 2505 02:04:50.399 --> 02:04:54.720 to Jerome who is Catholic. Is there seriously, any reason 2506 02:04:54.760 --> 02:04:57.479 why we should believe these people. This is utterly absurdity 2507 02:04:57.920 --> 02:05:00.640 at this point, how many times is Pastor John going 2508 02:05:00.680 --> 02:05:04.319 to refute himself? So Pastor John, and then they say 2509 02:05:04.359 --> 02:05:06.680 that you're refuting yourself when you say, I'm not Catholic, 2510 02:05:06.720 --> 02:05:08.560 but I'm going to appeal to Jerome who was Catholic. 2511 02:05:09.680 --> 02:05:12.359 Okay, again, he asked me a question specifically, could I 2512 02:05:12.399 --> 02:05:15.479 point to anybody that had my specific canon in times past? 2513 02:05:15.800 --> 02:05:15.840 No? 2514 02:05:15.960 --> 02:05:20.159 I wanted to as someone that had my particular. 2515 02:05:20.039 --> 02:05:22.000 Lying, And I asked you, you're lying. I asked you 2516 02:05:22.119 --> 02:05:23.279 the first three centuries. 2517 02:05:25.199 --> 02:05:26.119 You did ask that question. 2518 02:05:26.239 --> 02:05:28.000 You asked in other parts of the debate or other 2519 02:05:28.039 --> 02:05:29.880 parts of the discussion, can you name no idudy that 2520 02:05:29.960 --> 02:05:30.520 I said in the. 2521 02:05:30.560 --> 02:05:33.199 First three centuries? Can you name somebody with your canon? 2522 02:05:34.119 --> 02:05:36.760 Regardless, I'm answering the question of why I answered the 2523 02:05:36.840 --> 02:05:37.760 question about Jerome. 2524 02:05:37.920 --> 02:05:40.159 I'm not apportion doesn't answer the question I don't know 2525 02:05:40.319 --> 02:05:42.439 my church father. So is there one of the first 2526 02:05:42.479 --> 02:05:47.640 three centuries? There's plenty of people that appeal to name 2527 02:05:47.760 --> 02:05:50.600 one scriptures that I appear. Just so if you don't know, 2528 02:05:50.800 --> 02:05:54.560 how do you say that? Again, you can't name one. 2529 02:05:54.640 --> 02:05:55.159 So how do you know. 2530 02:05:56.359 --> 02:05:59.520 Obviously, Saint Athanasius is someone that appeals to the twenty 2531 02:05:59.560 --> 02:06:02.960 seven book, and I appeal this is twenty seven books 2532 02:06:02.960 --> 02:06:03.520 of the New Testament. 2533 02:06:04.359 --> 02:06:06.399 I didn't ask you about that, actually, about the entire 2534 02:06:06.479 --> 02:06:08.680 canon scripture. Athanasius the first to the Dudero cannon. So 2535 02:06:08.720 --> 02:06:13.439 you just repeat yourself again again. Athasius does not refer 2536 02:06:13.560 --> 02:06:16.520 to the Judo economics. He does as scripture. Yes he does, 2537 02:06:16.560 --> 02:06:21.600 he does not, Yes he does? He again Festal letters, 2538 02:06:21.880 --> 02:06:24.960 his facial letters we call up. In his Festal letters, 2539 02:06:25.039 --> 02:06:28.279 he says that catech humans are instructed to study the 2540 02:06:28.439 --> 02:06:33.119 dudoconomical texts. I'll pull up the same Athenacious quote because 2541 02:06:33.199 --> 02:06:35.319 I think I haven't. I don't want your quote mine. 2542 02:06:35.319 --> 02:06:36.960 I'm telling you what he says in the Festal letters. 2543 02:06:37.000 --> 02:06:40.079 He says that it is not considered scripture. No, he 2544 02:06:40.159 --> 02:06:44.000 says that catechumens are instructed to read the Dudero canon. 2545 02:06:44.079 --> 02:06:45.920 In the Festal letters, he. 2546 02:06:46.479 --> 02:06:48.760 Puts the apography as not in par with scripture. 2547 02:06:48.760 --> 02:06:50.520 It's it's a very clear state. Why would he tell 2548 02:06:50.760 --> 02:06:54.600 catecumans to read it? Do you know what a catecumen is? 2549 02:06:55.000 --> 02:06:57.439 He could read it for historical value. No, that's what 2550 02:06:57.600 --> 02:07:00.640 he said. You know what a catechumen is, It doesn't matter. 2551 02:07:01.039 --> 02:07:03.840 It doesn't mattercripture. That's the point. You know what argument 2552 02:07:04.279 --> 02:07:06.800 is was what was scripture? And you know what. 2553 02:07:08.520 --> 02:07:09.399 Has not scripture? 2554 02:07:09.399 --> 02:07:11.920 And then you know and said that he appealed to, lying, 2555 02:07:12.079 --> 02:07:14.560 do you know what a catechumen is? I don't give it. 2556 02:07:14.720 --> 02:07:16.479 I don't. I don't want to appeal to you don't 2557 02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:18.560 know what he said? The argument, you're just it's the 2558 02:07:19.000 --> 02:07:22.479 bi argument when he says the Catecumans are instructed to 2559 02:07:22.600 --> 02:07:25.319 read the Duro Canon, you don't even know what a catechumen. 2560 02:07:25.000 --> 02:07:28.319 Is, look Saint athanacious. 2561 02:07:28.359 --> 02:07:32.439 So he doesn't merely says he doesn't know the apocrypha 2562 02:07:32.640 --> 02:07:33.520 is not scripture. 2563 02:07:33.640 --> 02:07:34.520 And Jade's lying. 2564 02:07:34.600 --> 02:07:38.079 You're not even want to ignore that by going and 2565 02:07:38.119 --> 02:07:39.640 I'm not going to allow him to go on a rabbit. 2566 02:07:39.720 --> 02:07:43.720 He has a famous Festal layer liar. He says that 2567 02:07:43.960 --> 02:07:47.279 the Catecumans are instructed to read the Duro Canon. You 2568 02:07:47.319 --> 02:07:49.479 don't even know what a catechumen is. How are you 2569 02:07:49.600 --> 02:07:52.840 competent to say? What's the case on this? Tell me what? 2570 02:07:53.560 --> 02:07:56.720 I can't tell you? What I have to know what 2571 02:07:56.800 --> 02:07:59.239 a catechumen is to yes you do, quote, yes you do. 2572 02:08:00.359 --> 02:08:07.399 We have the next question, Fernando, because gentlemen, we've got 2573 02:08:07.520 --> 02:08:09.520 to go to the next question. Fernando temic Cole says 2574 02:08:09.560 --> 02:08:12.600 the Old Testament was for the most part established hundreds 2575 02:08:12.600 --> 02:08:15.840 of years before the formation of the New Testament canon 2576 02:08:16.239 --> 02:08:20.199 consols of which the Septuagint with the Deutero canon was 2577 02:08:20.359 --> 02:08:23.359 used by first through third century Christians. 2578 02:08:23.600 --> 02:08:27.439 Correct, correct, Yeah, this is what my article shows and 2579 02:08:27.520 --> 02:08:28.079 refutes him. 2580 02:08:28.760 --> 02:08:32.720 This one from Lombago, so this petitioned Jay to where 2581 02:08:32.760 --> 02:08:36.880 pitt viper sunglasses every debate on modern day debate, gr and. 2582 02:08:36.880 --> 02:08:39.199 That's why I wore my my panda shirt to show 2583 02:08:39.239 --> 02:08:39.960 you that I'm nice. 2584 02:08:41.199 --> 02:08:43.600 This one from g R says, all of Protestantism is 2585 02:08:43.760 --> 02:08:46.079 just trust me bro. Okay. My guess is you don't 2586 02:08:46.079 --> 02:08:49.479 agree with that, Jonathan. This one from Jerome Elaane I 2587 02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:52.439 said trust the Bible, not me, says, Notice that we 2588 02:08:52.560 --> 02:08:57.159 can't see any epistemology from Baptist yet. Right, there's more 2589 02:08:57.199 --> 02:08:57.680 smack talk. 2590 02:08:59.000 --> 02:08:59.800 Was trust me bro. 2591 02:09:01.680 --> 02:09:02.560 In the Lord's work. 2592 02:09:02.800 --> 02:09:07.359 Truly as theology. It's a book. Yeah, it's how we 2593 02:09:07.479 --> 02:09:09.760 know that it's it's the right thing doesn't tell you 2594 02:09:09.840 --> 02:09:11.840 the canon it is the canon. 2595 02:09:12.439 --> 02:09:14.359 It doesn't tell you which ones the right is the canon. 2596 02:09:14.560 --> 02:09:16.680 It doesn't have to tell me the question, how do 2597 02:09:16.800 --> 02:09:19.119 we know? Not begging the question, it's God's word, I'm 2598 02:09:19.119 --> 02:09:19.880 supposed to accept it. 2599 02:09:20.079 --> 02:09:21.880 How do we know that it's not the Douo canon? 2600 02:09:22.720 --> 02:09:24.600 How do we know it's not the Doudero cannon. Well, again, 2601 02:09:24.640 --> 02:09:27.600 because it doesn't have the divine voice that's begging the question. 2602 02:09:28.079 --> 02:09:31.359 Everybody else consistent the rest of the first thousand years. 2603 02:09:31.439 --> 02:09:33.840 It's not been preserved in the Hebrew schismatic. It's not 2604 02:09:33.920 --> 02:09:35.560 been received by all the Christians. 2605 02:09:36.079 --> 02:09:38.520 You don't have a who are all the Christians? You 2606 02:09:38.560 --> 02:09:40.239 can't name one the first four hundred years. I believe 2607 02:09:40.239 --> 02:09:42.560 it's not received by all of them. You can't name 2608 02:09:42.600 --> 02:09:45.640 one that believes your view. That doesn't count heretics. I'm 2609 02:09:45.640 --> 02:09:46.079 going to read it. 2610 02:09:47.279 --> 02:09:50.600 There's other books besides these, not indeed included in the cannon. 2611 02:09:50.800 --> 02:09:53.159 And then he lists the Wisdom of Solomon, the Wisdom 2612 02:09:53.159 --> 02:09:55.199 of syrac And and he goes on to say there 2613 02:09:55.199 --> 02:09:59.279 are He says that they're not in the canon. He 2614 02:09:59.399 --> 02:10:01.760 goes on to shut off your lying. No you're lying. 2615 02:10:01.800 --> 02:10:04.000 He says they are to be read by catechumens, and 2616 02:10:04.079 --> 02:10:05.039 you don't know what that means. 2617 02:10:05.640 --> 02:10:07.399 It's not scripture, it's not canon. 2618 02:10:07.880 --> 02:10:10.199 It is part of the canon. It's the word deutero. 2619 02:10:10.319 --> 02:10:14.479 Canon means second, contradicting himself, it's secondary canon. I'm telling 2620 02:10:14.520 --> 02:10:16.880 you what it means because he tells the Catecumans to 2621 02:10:17.000 --> 02:10:18.600 read it. And you don't know what a catechumen is. 2622 02:10:19.640 --> 02:10:21.479 How are you gonna how are you gonna interpret it 2623 02:10:21.520 --> 02:10:22.199 when you don't know where that it. 2624 02:10:22.239 --> 02:10:23.640 Is this from. 2625 02:10:23.800 --> 02:10:26.840 So he's not included in canon. Just kidding, it's canon. 2626 02:10:27.880 --> 02:10:31.880 Bulpez says there is no Jewish canon quote unquote at 2627 02:10:31.920 --> 02:10:34.079 the time of the Apostles, different groups of Jews had 2628 02:10:34.119 --> 02:10:37.279 different canons. Also, Doctor James, please become orthodox, homie. 2629 02:10:38.319 --> 02:10:38.800 So again. 2630 02:10:38.920 --> 02:10:42.239 Jesus Christ, on the walk to Amais tells the two 2631 02:10:42.399 --> 02:10:45.520 men that they are fools for not believing that all 2632 02:10:45.600 --> 02:10:47.960 the prophets are spoken. How can he hold those men 2633 02:10:48.039 --> 02:10:51.439 accountable for not having read everything that was scripture if 2634 02:10:51.479 --> 02:10:52.880 they couldn't know what the scripture was. 2635 02:10:53.279 --> 02:10:55.119 It's a non sack horse the nonsense. 2636 02:10:55.239 --> 02:10:57.640 They know that what the Hebrew canon was at the 2637 02:10:57.680 --> 02:10:58.279 time of Christ. 2638 02:10:58.560 --> 02:11:02.520 The question is just false. It's a non secutor because 2639 02:11:02.560 --> 02:11:04.720 it's not telling you the canon of scripture. He's talking 2640 02:11:04.760 --> 02:11:07.159 about the Old Testament. By the way, if I look 2641 02:11:07.239 --> 02:11:10.680 at Athanasius's list right here, do you believe Barreck is 2642 02:11:10.720 --> 02:11:16.199 part of scripture? Again? Does he did he say that 2643 02:11:16.359 --> 02:11:19.399 the apographer was not included in the cannon? Barrock is 2644 02:11:19.479 --> 02:11:21.600 listed right here as part of the scripture in his 2645 02:11:21.680 --> 02:11:25.079 thirty ninth Festal letter. Do you believe that? No, then 2646 02:11:25.119 --> 02:11:27.680 you don't have Then Athanatius doesn't prove your position, you idiot. 2647 02:11:28.720 --> 02:11:30.119 I just said that you lie that he said the 2648 02:11:30.159 --> 02:11:31.640 apographer was included in the cannon. 2649 02:11:32.319 --> 02:11:33.960 You said, it's the old time you said, he has 2650 02:11:34.039 --> 02:11:36.720 your view. He includes Baruck. That disproves you. 2651 02:11:38.800 --> 02:11:42.680 This probably appealed to Saints for my cannon, and I 2652 02:11:42.760 --> 02:11:43.720 never said at anything. 2653 02:11:45.079 --> 02:11:46.680 Is why I have the king? Can we share the 2654 02:11:46.760 --> 02:11:50.079 one that says that names? We share it? Can we 2655 02:11:50.159 --> 02:11:50.800 share the screen? 2656 02:11:51.439 --> 02:11:52.279 You want to share your screen? 2657 02:11:52.319 --> 02:11:54.039 I'm ready for it, yes, because I have the letter 2658 02:11:54.119 --> 02:11:55.479 right here and he's totally full of it. 2659 02:11:58.920 --> 02:12:00.680 But you have to share the screen. You have to 2660 02:12:00.680 --> 02:12:01.199 press the book. 2661 02:12:01.640 --> 02:12:04.960 I'll share my quote too, it's the same letter you idiot. 2662 02:12:05.439 --> 02:12:07.039 You just read the only part of it. 2663 02:12:08.680 --> 02:12:11.199 He wouldn't answer the question that he said, not answer. 2664 02:12:12.640 --> 02:12:13.840 That. I'm showing you're full of it. 2665 02:12:14.880 --> 02:12:17.199 Okay, show me where he didn't say that quote. 2666 02:12:19.840 --> 02:12:24.439 It's a question of the full quote, not you're part 2667 02:12:24.479 --> 02:12:25.239 of the text. 2668 02:12:26.359 --> 02:12:30.520 I'll read the whole quote for you. These are not No, 2669 02:12:31.399 --> 02:12:32.399 I'm not talking about that. 2670 02:12:32.600 --> 02:12:34.520 And so if I have to shut my computer down 2671 02:12:34.560 --> 02:12:36.279 because I don't have the permissions to share it. But 2672 02:12:36.800 --> 02:12:39.039 he says, but appointed by the Fathers to be read, 2673 02:12:39.119 --> 02:12:40.560 I'll pull it up on the screen so you can 2674 02:12:40.640 --> 02:12:42.600 read it for I don't. I'm not read it. I don't. 2675 02:12:42.800 --> 02:12:45.479 I'm not listen. You're lying about what the rest of 2676 02:12:45.520 --> 02:12:48.239 the letter says. He says the Old Testament includes. This 2677 02:12:48.359 --> 02:12:52.039 is paragraph four. He says, the Book of Barrack with Jeremiah. 2678 02:12:52.119 --> 02:12:54.079 That's not your Old Testament. Correct. 2679 02:12:55.359 --> 02:12:56.319 I don't believe in Barrick. 2680 02:12:56.760 --> 02:12:59.199 Okay, so it's not your Old Testament. The last paragraph, 2681 02:12:59.279 --> 02:13:03.800 section seven says, the teachings of the Deuterocanonical text, or 2682 02:13:03.840 --> 02:13:06.439 what are we called what we call the durocanon, are 2683 02:13:06.560 --> 02:13:09.760 to be read and for the purpose of the Categhumans. 2684 02:13:10.079 --> 02:13:14.159 What does that mean, I'm not appealing to Saint Athanasius form. 2685 02:13:14.319 --> 02:13:16.520 Yes you did. You said it was the Protestant canon 2686 02:13:16.840 --> 02:13:18.640 and it's not. You just admitted that. I said that. 2687 02:13:19.119 --> 02:13:20.680 You said it was a Protestant canon, didn't you. 2688 02:13:21.720 --> 02:13:23.520 I said that he appealed to the twenty seven books. 2689 02:13:23.560 --> 02:13:25.720 Did he not know the Old Testament cannon? You know 2690 02:13:25.760 --> 02:13:28.399 what we're talking about? And I got changing that he 2691 02:13:28.479 --> 02:13:30.560 did said the Old Testament canon. 2692 02:13:30.960 --> 02:13:33.800 Is baruk supposed to be Old Testament cannon according to 2693 02:13:33.840 --> 02:13:34.600 Saint Athanasius. 2694 02:13:35.079 --> 02:13:37.560 Yes, so why don't you accept it? 2695 02:13:37.960 --> 02:13:38.479 We do? 2696 02:13:38.640 --> 02:13:42.319 You idiot? Dude? Hear this so stupid? It is our 2697 02:13:42.359 --> 02:13:42.840 Old Testine. 2698 02:13:42.880 --> 02:13:45.079 You've got to go to the next question. This one problem. 2699 02:13:45.159 --> 02:13:47.560 Ryan Finley says, question for Pastor Jonathan, do you even 2700 02:13:47.600 --> 02:13:50.039 have the right translation of the Old Testament? Or does 2701 02:13:50.159 --> 02:13:53.720 yours use the Massoretic text? Check Isaiah forty two to four. 2702 02:13:53.800 --> 02:13:58.720 If it says quote unquote post Lands instead of Gentiles, 2703 02:13:58.840 --> 02:14:00.039 your text is wrong. 2704 02:14:02.680 --> 02:14:04.840 Again. I used I used the Hebrew for the Old 2705 02:14:04.880 --> 02:14:06.399 Testament in the King James Bible. 2706 02:14:07.039 --> 02:14:10.560 Rachel Wilson says, my homeschooled kids learned by about age 2707 02:14:10.600 --> 02:14:13.039 seven that most people were illiterate prior to the invention 2708 02:14:13.199 --> 02:14:16.640 of the printing press. Does Jonathan even know when that was? 2709 02:14:17.199 --> 02:14:19.960 Literacy in three hundred eighty Roman Empire was about five 2710 02:14:20.119 --> 02:14:22.600 to ten percent. By the way, this is so stupid. 2711 02:14:25.680 --> 02:14:27.960 It has nothing to it's common knowledge. Yeah it does, 2712 02:14:28.079 --> 02:14:29.720 because you said that nobody knows. 2713 02:14:29.760 --> 02:14:32.039 You're talking about the second century, number one, so you know, 2714 02:14:32.239 --> 02:14:34.359 not not the same, not the same comparison. 2715 02:14:35.239 --> 02:14:36.720 You made the claim that they're literate. 2716 02:14:37.800 --> 02:14:41.399 You said, in the second century, almost everybody couldn't read. Correct, 2717 02:14:42.479 --> 02:14:44.640 That's what we were talking about. It's common talking about. 2718 02:14:44.680 --> 02:14:47.000 They're talking about right before the printing press. This is 2719 02:14:47.039 --> 02:14:50.319 separated about saying everybody before the printing press. You idiot, man, 2720 02:14:50.359 --> 02:14:52.600 you're so funny, You're fundamentally. 2721 02:14:52.399 --> 02:14:54.640 Why would why would Christ so as to read the 2722 02:14:54.720 --> 02:14:58.960 Bible of no one could read? Are you this dumb? Seriously? 2723 02:14:59.079 --> 02:15:01.640 Are you actually like challenged? Are you a little bit 2724 02:15:01.760 --> 02:15:02.640 downs or what like? 2725 02:15:02.760 --> 02:15:05.439 Are you like I'm glad that you have arguments and you. 2726 02:15:05.479 --> 02:15:12.960 Proved you can make a thousand arguments found syndrome bias. 2727 02:15:12.760 --> 02:15:18.760 Dude, odd Chaldean. So these are mostly just insults. Master 2728 02:15:18.800 --> 02:15:21.520 by Gray's question for Jay does two quote que mean 2729 02:15:21.600 --> 02:15:23.800 you don't have the answer to anything you ask of others. 2730 02:15:24.680 --> 02:15:26.600 No, it means in the course of Q and A 2731 02:15:26.680 --> 02:15:29.760 and cross examinations. If I asked a question and you 2732 02:15:29.920 --> 02:15:33.239 ask me a question as a retort, then no, that's 2733 02:15:33.279 --> 02:15:36.239 a fallacy. I answered his questions plenty of times about 2734 02:15:36.279 --> 02:15:39.319 how we know tradition, how we know what the canon is, 2735 02:15:39.680 --> 02:15:42.560 how we know that there's liturgy. I gave multiple examples. 2736 02:15:42.600 --> 02:15:46.359 And by the way, again it's it's the affenacious quote 2737 02:15:46.479 --> 02:15:48.199 is in the chat right here, and you can see 2738 02:15:48.319 --> 02:15:51.039 in paragraph seven and in paragraph four he was wrong. 2739 02:15:51.680 --> 02:15:53.760 It's funny because if Jay had been there, he could 2740 02:15:53.760 --> 02:15:56.399 have corrected Jesus, since often when Jesus asked a question, 2741 02:15:56.840 --> 02:15:58.560 he retorted with a question himself. 2742 02:16:00.039 --> 02:16:02.399 Yeah, rhetorical question is not too quot Tony. 2743 02:16:02.479 --> 02:16:05.119 The Baptist says, who wrote the Book of Hebrews? Jonathan? 2744 02:16:05.319 --> 02:16:09.720 Because apparently it matters so much. I never said that, 2745 02:16:10.079 --> 02:16:13.279 you said, Jay asked the Orthodox who wrote the Book 2746 02:16:13.279 --> 02:16:15.000 of Hebrews? Because apparently it matters so much. 2747 02:16:16.119 --> 02:16:19.079 We have believe that Paul wrote it. That's our tradition. 2748 02:16:19.640 --> 02:16:23.319 The sentence resists, says, keep it on. Note that Jonathan 2749 02:16:23.359 --> 02:16:26.079 appealed to tradition debate is over, period. Nothing more needs 2750 02:16:26.119 --> 02:16:28.079 to be said from here on solo. Scripture is early 2751 02:16:28.159 --> 02:16:30.800 nonsense and no has no basis in Christianity. Period. 2752 02:16:33.000 --> 02:16:35.079 Again, I I said that there's nothing wrong with tradition 2753 02:16:35.159 --> 02:16:36.600 as long as it lines up with scripture. 2754 02:16:36.639 --> 02:16:39.079 That that doesn't end up question about. 2755 02:16:43.879 --> 02:16:46.319 No one in the Protestant Reformation that said tradition doesn't 2756 02:16:46.319 --> 02:16:46.879 matter at all. 2757 02:16:47.239 --> 02:16:50.040 There's no no one hears that position. It's just like 2758 02:16:50.120 --> 02:16:51.120 a straw man argument. 2759 02:16:51.600 --> 02:16:57.040 No tradition for knowing Matthew's canon this city, No one 2760 02:16:57.120 --> 02:17:00.639 denies that. You do you say that it's when did 2761 02:17:00.719 --> 02:17:05.120 I say that Matthew's not the Gospel of Matthew lying 2762 02:17:05.440 --> 02:17:10.239 math you admitted as tradition. Thus you rely on tradition 2763 02:17:10.399 --> 02:17:13.440 to know the scriptures the canon to know that it's 2764 02:17:13.479 --> 02:17:18.760 the Book of Matthew, but not that which is Again, 2765 02:17:18.840 --> 02:17:21.879 the scripture is self authenticating. I don't need that are 2766 02:17:21.959 --> 02:17:24.360 not That's not an argument. I could just say my 2767 02:17:24.840 --> 02:17:28.440 or order tradition. I don't need to know the order 2768 02:17:28.479 --> 02:17:29.760 of the books to know that it's the Word of 2769 02:17:29.920 --> 02:17:31.559 It's not a question of the order, it's a question 2770 02:17:31.639 --> 02:17:34.559 of inclusion. I could just say my position is self authenticating. 2771 02:17:34.639 --> 02:17:36.079 If if you can do that, that's why it's a 2772 02:17:36.120 --> 02:17:38.719 foul sait. Exactly, your position is you believe your church 2773 02:17:38.799 --> 02:17:41.200 is infallible because your church is in found. I'm I 2774 02:17:41.280 --> 02:17:43.719 want to know. That's not my argument. My argument was 2775 02:17:43.799 --> 02:17:46.040 never just I know the Bible because my church infallible. 2776 02:17:46.040 --> 02:17:47.639 I never meant that's a strong man. I said, we 2777 02:17:47.760 --> 02:17:51.319 have tradition from the apostolic teaching of the Church fathers 2778 02:17:51.399 --> 02:17:53.000 to know what the canon is. You don't have that. 2779 02:17:53.399 --> 02:17:54.520 Where did you get that tradition? 2780 02:17:55.200 --> 02:17:57.799 How do you know the Church fathers and the exactly 2781 02:17:57.920 --> 02:17:59.959 to appeal to your church to know where you got 2782 02:18:00.200 --> 02:18:00.639 that tradition. 2783 02:18:01.200 --> 02:18:02.639 And so that's a circular logic. 2784 02:18:02.760 --> 02:18:05.200 You appeal to your church to get your tradition, and 2785 02:18:05.280 --> 02:18:07.520 so you're just saying, trust me, bro I picked the right. 2786 02:18:07.680 --> 02:18:10.159 The difference is that you rely on my church to 2787 02:18:10.280 --> 02:18:12.399 get your books. That's I never asked your church for that, 2788 02:18:12.639 --> 02:18:15.680 and again stole a different Bible you got it from. 2789 02:18:15.760 --> 02:18:17.399 How could I say that I appeal to your church 2790 02:18:17.559 --> 02:18:20.200 because you rely on us for knowing that? Matthew wrote, Matthew, 2791 02:18:20.200 --> 02:18:23.440 has you already admitted I didn't? Again, this is all Christians. 2792 02:18:24.000 --> 02:18:26.440 You already admitted us. You already admitted that. 2793 02:18:27.319 --> 02:18:29.920 I admitted that Christians passed down the tradition of Matthew. 2794 02:18:30.040 --> 02:18:33.879 Yes, they were orthodox in those centuries. Everyone had that tradition. 2795 02:18:34.159 --> 02:18:36.879 Show me the person that didn't know. They didn't show 2796 02:18:36.920 --> 02:18:39.000 me the person that didn't. They didn't show me the 2797 02:18:39.040 --> 02:18:41.600 person that didn't. You said everybody had the tradition that 2798 02:18:41.680 --> 02:18:44.159 Matthew was part of the scriptures. Where is this You 2799 02:18:44.360 --> 02:18:44.879 don't even. 2800 02:18:44.760 --> 02:18:47.600 Know that Matthew is called the Book of Matthew. That 2801 02:18:47.719 --> 02:18:50.600 was the whole argument. Just change the gold authorship. Dude, 2802 02:18:50.639 --> 02:18:53.239 you're so stupid. I'm talking about that Matthew the Disciple 2803 02:18:53.319 --> 02:18:56.120 wrote it. There's all kinds of Suppergratha that have apostles 2804 02:18:56.239 --> 02:18:57.319 names the Gospel of Thomas. 2805 02:18:57.399 --> 02:19:00.399 The question is that an apostle of Jesus wrote it. 2806 02:19:01.600 --> 02:19:03.559 I believe that an apostle Jesus wrote it. 2807 02:19:03.680 --> 02:19:05.760 Yes, how do you know it? Not whether you believe it. 2808 02:19:06.600 --> 02:19:09.680 I just told you it's tradition, thank you. So you 2809 02:19:09.799 --> 02:19:13.000 rely on tradition from our church and from our single 2810 02:19:15.479 --> 02:19:17.559 that's a fallacy. That's an appeal to the massis. 2811 02:19:18.280 --> 02:19:21.200 Dan Slob says, Jay, Why does the canon matter when 2812 02:19:21.239 --> 02:19:23.440 talking about the authority of scripture, I can do solo 2813 02:19:23.479 --> 02:19:24.840 scripturo without all of. 2814 02:19:24.879 --> 02:19:26.920 Scripture, without what. 2815 02:19:28.879 --> 02:19:29.959 Without all of scripture? 2816 02:19:31.520 --> 02:19:32.239 I didn't understand that. 2817 02:19:32.319 --> 02:19:35.360 How could you even do solo scripture? So he's saying 2818 02:19:35.440 --> 02:19:37.959 that scripture a lot. Well, my argument was an opening 2819 02:19:38.040 --> 02:19:41.360 statement that scripture itself points to the Word of God 2820 02:19:41.440 --> 02:19:44.280 being oral and to traditions that are necessary in binding. 2821 02:19:44.879 --> 02:19:47.239 So even if you say I'm just going to go 2822 02:19:47.280 --> 02:19:49.959 with scripture, scripture yourself points out to other authorities. 2823 02:19:51.440 --> 02:19:54.280 This one problem. Do you appreciate it? Dan Alien says 2824 02:19:54.360 --> 02:19:57.440 God can't be in a loaf of bread and wine, 2825 02:19:57.479 --> 02:20:00.520 but God is in the book on my dresser. This 2826 02:20:00.680 --> 02:20:03.360 one from Tony the Baptist says their early church fathers say, 2827 02:20:03.440 --> 02:20:05.280 Paul wrote Hebrews because trust me bro. 2828 02:20:07.559 --> 02:20:11.319 No, the argument is that we do have apostolic oral tradition. 2829 02:20:12.040 --> 02:20:14.719 I'm the one defending tradition. I'm not just saying trust me, bro, 2830 02:20:14.879 --> 02:20:16.840 I'm going to say that when I go to Ieronas, 2831 02:20:16.879 --> 02:20:18.520 when I go to Justin Marta, when I go to Clement, 2832 02:20:18.600 --> 02:20:21.440 when I go to Cyprian, and those early church fathers, 2833 02:20:21.479 --> 02:20:23.959 they are going to back up the positions and the 2834 02:20:24.040 --> 02:20:26.719 tradition that we have in the Orthodox Church that he 2835 02:20:26.959 --> 02:20:29.040 relies on, as he already admitted to even know that, 2836 02:20:29.120 --> 02:20:30.479 Matthew wrote, Matthew. 2837 02:20:32.200 --> 02:20:34.120 Again, how do we know Coptic isn't the right tradition? 2838 02:20:35.120 --> 02:20:39.000 Easy airborne animal says, Does Jonathan believe that his understanding 2839 02:20:39.000 --> 02:20:41.639 of the Bible superses those of the apostles? How does 2840 02:20:41.680 --> 02:20:44.920 he know that it's God that is listening and answering 2841 02:20:44.959 --> 02:20:46.920 his prayers and not the demon or the devil? 2842 02:20:48.799 --> 02:20:52.200 My personal interpretation doesn't usurp anybody. The Word of God 2843 02:20:52.440 --> 02:20:57.200 is the normative authority, it's the final authority. And many 2844 02:20:57.319 --> 02:20:59.559 Christians come to the same conclusions. Not all, and I 2845 02:20:59.639 --> 02:21:03.079 never said at all. There's obviously been schisms, there's obviously 2846 02:21:03.159 --> 02:21:07.680 been heresies, there's obviously false traditions. He's he believes there's 2847 02:21:07.680 --> 02:21:12.120 false traditions. He rejects many Catholic false traditions. Do you know, 2848 02:21:12.399 --> 02:21:15.399 then you have to how does he does have to 2849 02:21:15.399 --> 02:21:17.360 appeal the scripture? Because at the end of the day, 2850 02:21:17.360 --> 02:21:18.120 the scripture. 2851 02:21:18.159 --> 02:21:21.000 Scripture doesn't that's a non sequitor, doesn't mean sol scripture. 2852 02:21:21.040 --> 02:21:22.239 And by the way, you don't even do you even 2853 02:21:22.239 --> 02:21:23.239 know what normative authority is. 2854 02:21:24.159 --> 02:21:26.200 It's how we know something's true or binding. 2855 02:21:28.000 --> 02:21:30.360 That's not what normative authority is. So you don't even 2856 02:21:30.399 --> 02:21:33.639 know in ethics what is normative. Your normative authority is 2857 02:21:33.719 --> 02:21:37.600 the Orthodox turch ethics. Normative authority is the Scripture. Don't 2858 02:21:37.600 --> 02:21:40.719 know what it means binding. You don't know what again means. 2859 02:21:41.079 --> 02:21:44.799 My church can exercise normative authority through the scripture. Yours 2860 02:21:45.040 --> 02:21:48.239 is tradition and the scripture ethics. What difference is the 2861 02:21:48.319 --> 02:21:50.319 tradition not harmative word? 2862 02:21:50.680 --> 02:21:52.120 In ethics? What is normativity? 2863 02:21:53.079 --> 02:21:54.440 This is a silly argumentation. 2864 02:21:54.719 --> 02:21:56.319 Are using the words. You don't even know what it is. 2865 02:21:56.879 --> 02:21:57.319 What is it? 2866 02:21:57.520 --> 02:21:59.360 It's binding authority on what's true? 2867 02:22:00.040 --> 02:22:01.040 So it binds your conscience? 2868 02:22:02.319 --> 02:22:04.280 What the scripture? Yes, it binds my conscience. 2869 02:22:05.000 --> 02:22:07.760 Are there any normative authorities that can bind people's conscience 2870 02:22:07.799 --> 02:22:11.200 to the sixty six books of the Scripture? The scripture itself, 2871 02:22:11.959 --> 02:22:14.440 that's not a normative authority. It can't bind you. It's 2872 02:22:14.479 --> 02:22:14.799 a book. 2873 02:22:15.399 --> 02:22:19.719 It's it's got instructions. Bro These instructions are the binding authority. 2874 02:22:19.799 --> 02:22:24.200 God's word, God Jesus the Ultimate didn't provide any living 2875 02:22:24.280 --> 02:22:27.079 authorities that can determine what goes in the book. 2876 02:22:27.120 --> 02:22:30.239 Look, Herod was rebuked for having his brother Philip's wife. 2877 02:22:30.399 --> 02:22:34.239 How you only know how is Herod bound. 2878 02:22:36.200 --> 02:22:40.399 To? One from the Airborne Animal. This one from Torren 2879 02:22:40.440 --> 02:22:42.120 James says, Jay, will you ever stop being a big 2880 02:22:42.200 --> 02:22:43.079 meany to prats? 2881 02:22:43.680 --> 02:22:46.239 This one from I'm not being mean because I have 2882 02:22:46.319 --> 02:22:47.959 a panda shirt on? How could I be mean if 2883 02:22:47.959 --> 02:22:48.159 I have. 2884 02:22:48.200 --> 02:22:50.840 This says your Bible is wrong. Mine is right because 2885 02:22:50.840 --> 02:22:52.680 the sweet voice whispers in my ear and tells me 2886 02:22:53.159 --> 02:22:55.879 while also saying trust me, Bro, that's rich. 2887 02:22:57.360 --> 02:22:58.559 That's just a moon. He's a Mormon. 2888 02:22:59.159 --> 02:23:01.040 Yeah, the sweet voice that told you to be Orthodox? 2889 02:23:01.600 --> 02:23:01.840 Okay? 2890 02:23:02.200 --> 02:23:04.959 From our borg says question for Pastor Jonathan, how would 2891 02:23:05.000 --> 02:23:07.280 your position deal with the Gnostics during the second century? 2892 02:23:07.360 --> 02:23:08.000 Is there a method? 2893 02:23:08.959 --> 02:23:11.639 The scripture itself proves them to be false? They're not 2894 02:23:11.760 --> 02:23:14.520 internally consistent with the scripture? Did they have a canon 2895 02:23:14.559 --> 02:23:15.760 a scripture in the second century? 2896 02:23:17.680 --> 02:23:20.559 I'm sure many Gnostics have their version origin and whoever 2897 02:23:20.600 --> 02:23:21.120 you want. 2898 02:23:20.959 --> 02:23:24.920 To they did. I'm not asking gnostics, I'm asking, obviously 2899 02:23:24.959 --> 02:23:26.440 about the true Christians. Do they have a canon in 2900 02:23:26.479 --> 02:23:29.000 the second century? I believe they did, because they how 2901 02:23:29.000 --> 02:23:31.399 would we even get there? You believe that they did. 2902 02:23:31.559 --> 02:23:33.760 Can you give an example of it? We have it? 2903 02:23:34.479 --> 02:23:38.600 If they did the second know what to pass down, 2904 02:23:39.559 --> 02:23:41.920 never gotten it. They had to know what your father 2905 02:23:42.120 --> 02:23:44.760 in the second century that had the Protestant canon? You 2906 02:23:44.840 --> 02:23:45.159 know that. 2907 02:23:45.360 --> 02:23:46.959 You know why they had the un because they knew 2908 02:23:46.959 --> 02:23:48.840 was the scripture and they passed it down. Aim a 2909 02:23:48.959 --> 02:23:51.879 church was received and recognized. 2910 02:23:51.959 --> 02:23:54.680 Name a representative person that had this canon. 2911 02:23:55.319 --> 02:23:58.239 I don't need to represent exactly there is some Catholic 2912 02:23:58.399 --> 02:24:02.280 church collar you play moldedly has my doctrine at this claim? 2913 02:24:03.360 --> 02:24:05.239 No, dude, you claim that there were, So give us 2914 02:24:05.239 --> 02:24:05.760 an example. 2915 02:24:05.840 --> 02:24:09.399 Who I'm telling you that we have the scripture? 2916 02:24:09.479 --> 02:24:12.440 Right? I don't care that you said that. So they 2917 02:24:12.479 --> 02:24:14.959 obviously passed it down. Okay, who named somebody in the 2918 02:24:14.959 --> 02:24:18.440 second What ifson was adopted and they never met their dad. 2919 02:24:18.479 --> 02:24:19.959 You're not going to answer because you have a dad 2920 02:24:20.159 --> 02:24:21.840 and they're like, well, how do you know the second 2921 02:24:22.639 --> 02:24:24.479 You may never met my dad. Doesn't mean I can't 2922 02:24:24.559 --> 02:24:26.159 know that I had a dad and in the same way, 2923 02:24:26.239 --> 02:24:28.920 but you don't. I don't know which guys were the 2924 02:24:29.000 --> 02:24:33.559 ones passing down. That does not prove that it didn't happen. No, 2925 02:24:33.719 --> 02:24:35.920 it does because you don't know that that happens. We 2926 02:24:36.000 --> 02:24:40.680 actually have this canon. The fact that so Mormons cannon 2927 02:24:41.000 --> 02:24:41.680 Mormons have there. 2928 02:24:41.680 --> 02:24:45.000 I think therefore, I am you just don't understand this axiom. 2929 02:24:47.000 --> 02:24:48.920 What does that have to do with this argument? You're 2930 02:24:48.920 --> 02:24:49.440 an idiot. 2931 02:24:49.639 --> 02:24:52.319 The cannon exists. They obviously passed it down. 2932 02:24:52.879 --> 02:24:56.760 You have no idea. How is the canon cannon your cannon? 2933 02:24:56.959 --> 02:24:59.399 The cannon passed it down. This guy is so stupid 2934 02:24:59.440 --> 02:25:01.719 he thinks the can and is a thing that pass doubt. 2935 02:25:02.440 --> 02:25:05.120 Alien says for Jonathan, if the words of the Bible 2936 02:25:05.200 --> 02:25:07.879 are God, then can I worship any passage or word 2937 02:25:07.920 --> 02:25:10.239 in the Bible as God? Can I appreciate before any 2938 02:25:10.360 --> 02:25:15.000 verse slash word like the quote unquote because it's in 2939 02:25:15.239 --> 02:25:16.440 God's word and God? 2940 02:25:19.559 --> 02:25:22.239 Again, I don't believe in like kneeling down before a 2941 02:25:22.280 --> 02:25:23.360 Bible or anything like that. 2942 02:25:23.479 --> 02:25:24.120 Don't don't hear me. 2943 02:25:24.600 --> 02:25:26.479 It's the word, right. But at the end of the day, 2944 02:25:26.520 --> 02:25:29.639 I do think we should elevate and worship what the 2945 02:25:29.680 --> 02:25:35.399 scriptures teach. Yeah, no, worship the sentences. The sentences. But 2946 02:25:35.680 --> 02:25:42.479 there's show there's one Protestant there's a Bible somewhere and 2947 02:25:42.639 --> 02:25:44.479 dow down to it. Is there a difference. 2948 02:25:44.559 --> 02:25:46.319 Then show me one person's ever done that. 2949 02:25:46.559 --> 02:25:49.959 Is this the word of God? Yes? Can I worship 2950 02:25:50.000 --> 02:25:50.559 the sentences? 2951 02:25:51.840 --> 02:25:52.000 How? 2952 02:25:53.000 --> 02:25:54.799 How the Bible tells us to go into our closet 2953 02:25:54.799 --> 02:25:56.159 and get on our knees and pray to God? 2954 02:25:56.319 --> 02:25:57.639 And which is in heaven? 2955 02:25:58.159 --> 02:26:01.159 You said the Bible is the thing that we could worship? 2956 02:26:01.239 --> 02:26:03.680 Then right, No, we don't worship paper, we don't pay worship, 2957 02:26:04.239 --> 02:26:07.879 We don't know the sennorship leather, leather not. But you 2958 02:26:07.959 --> 02:26:10.239 know what, we sing the Word of God, and we 2959 02:26:10.479 --> 02:26:12.760 we elevate that in our hearts and our minds, and 2960 02:26:12.799 --> 02:26:14.479 you can get on your knees and you can pray 2961 02:26:15.559 --> 02:26:18.719 Sator's worship the ses. You just mocked the Bible. You 2962 02:26:18.799 --> 02:26:20.799 just hate the word out in Jesus, I'm mocking you 2963 02:26:20.840 --> 02:26:21.520 because you're an idiot. 2964 02:26:21.559 --> 02:26:23.639 You gotta go to the next one. Publia says, aren't 2965 02:26:23.719 --> 02:26:26.799 there over three hundred versions of the Baptist Church? Why 2966 02:26:26.959 --> 02:26:28.079 is your version correct? 2967 02:26:28.559 --> 02:26:31.559 This knows it's three hundred versions. Is a total, over 2968 02:26:31.639 --> 02:26:35.319 the top ridiculous statement. But at the end of the day, 2969 02:26:35.319 --> 02:26:37.360 it doesn't matter how many versions or flavors there are. 2970 02:26:37.639 --> 02:26:40.719 There's versions and flavors of the Orthodox and Catholic and 2971 02:26:40.799 --> 02:26:43.479 whatever is it? Oh, we have less versions, so therefore 2972 02:26:43.520 --> 02:26:45.799 we're right, we have less schisms. I mean, the Muslims 2973 02:26:45.879 --> 02:26:47.799 only have two big branches, sunny and she? 2974 02:26:48.079 --> 02:26:48.639 Are they now right? 2975 02:26:48.680 --> 02:26:49.520 Because they only have two? 2976 02:26:49.959 --> 02:26:51.879 Can you can you give them multiple? 2977 02:26:52.200 --> 02:26:54.760 We can't. Rebuttal, we've got to keep how many? 2978 02:26:55.239 --> 02:26:55.520 How many? 2979 02:26:56.079 --> 02:26:59.399 Lewis TURKEYO, says Jonathan, just portraying all the heresies tonight. 2980 02:27:00.200 --> 02:27:03.520 I guess you disagree. JD says for John, what criteria 2981 02:27:03.600 --> 02:27:05.600 do you use to determine when scripture is speaking and 2982 02:27:05.639 --> 02:27:08.319 when it is not? To appeal to consistency and harmony 2983 02:27:08.360 --> 02:27:09.920 to other scripture is fallacious? 2984 02:27:13.200 --> 02:27:14.879 Again, I believe the sixty six books are all. 2985 02:27:14.840 --> 02:27:20.360 Scripture, Gavin Lowther, says Jonathan. The answer is Carthage, true 2986 02:27:20.399 --> 02:27:23.559 Low and the Eighth Ecumenical Council. That's where the canon 2987 02:27:23.680 --> 02:27:24.239 is compiled. 2988 02:27:24.440 --> 02:27:26.520 Good job, Ja, exactly. 2989 02:27:26.959 --> 02:27:31.159 This one from serena Weeb Bible quote unquote is short 2990 02:27:31.200 --> 02:27:34.959 for bibliography because it is the bibliography of Christ. It 2991 02:27:35.079 --> 02:27:37.079 isn't Christ himself, it's about him. 2992 02:27:38.120 --> 02:27:38.479 Correct. 2993 02:27:39.719 --> 02:27:43.440 Welcome, Trent, says Pastor Jonathan. You are very mean this evening. 2994 02:27:45.239 --> 02:27:48.920 Do you think your audience on the insults, but I 2995 02:27:48.920 --> 02:27:50.159 would say he insulted me more. 2996 02:27:52.079 --> 02:27:56.920 They might be trolling you, Jonathan think reflects positively on Christianity. 2997 02:27:58.399 --> 02:27:59.840 I'm sorry I missed your question. 2998 02:28:02.239 --> 02:28:05.000 Bobby C. Says for Jonathan, what language did the Scripture 2999 02:28:05.040 --> 02:28:07.520 exist in throughout all eternity? 3000 02:28:10.280 --> 02:28:12.200 That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that. 3001 02:28:15.680 --> 02:28:18.200 Talks in scripture, it's identical to the second person of 3002 02:28:18.239 --> 02:28:18.719 the Trinity. 3003 02:28:19.079 --> 02:28:21.239 By the way, it's a bonics. The eternal version of 3004 02:28:21.239 --> 02:28:24.959 the scriptures is a bonics. That's blasphemous, stupid. 3005 02:28:25.639 --> 02:28:27.840 Fifty six, says Jonathan. Do you believe when Satan talks 3006 02:28:27.879 --> 02:28:30.520 in scripture it's identical to the second person of the Trinity. 3007 02:28:31.959 --> 02:28:34.920 What's recorded in scripture is true, and the Bible records 3008 02:28:35.000 --> 02:28:38.120 true statements about people that lied. So obviously the Bible 3009 02:28:38.200 --> 02:28:41.639 contains people lying in the Bible. But no, it's it's 3010 02:28:41.760 --> 02:28:43.079 it's a silly Satan. 3011 02:28:45.399 --> 02:28:46.760 A chance to finish shape. 3012 02:28:47.799 --> 02:28:50.719 Again, Obviously, there's human authors in the Bible. They're not divine. 3013 02:28:51.280 --> 02:28:53.559 I believe all these words are from eternity past. 3014 02:28:53.639 --> 02:28:55.719 Yes, so Satan was speaking in all eternity. 3015 02:28:56.440 --> 02:28:59.040 No, he wasn't speaking physically, but he was captured what 3016 02:28:59.120 --> 02:29:01.760 he would say, He has captured what he would say, 3017 02:29:02.079 --> 02:29:04.840 it was captured. So you're so, you're so, you're believe 3018 02:29:04.840 --> 02:29:05.479 in predestination. 3019 02:29:06.319 --> 02:29:08.000 The Bible used the word amen. 3020 02:29:08.479 --> 02:29:09.959 I thought you said you believe in free will. 3021 02:29:10.719 --> 02:29:13.000 You can be predestined according to the fore knowledge of God. 3022 02:29:16.840 --> 02:29:18.520 Jesus Christ. Before the. 3023 02:29:21.639 --> 02:29:24.360 Tony, the Baptist says, is the Orthodox really calling Pastor 3024 02:29:24.399 --> 02:29:25.520 Shelley a Jewish Muslim? 3025 02:29:26.399 --> 02:29:26.559 Yes? 3026 02:29:26.760 --> 02:29:29.280 This one from one true Iceman, says Jay out here 3027 02:29:29.360 --> 02:29:33.200 calling people stupid lm ao. All of his detractors are 3028 02:29:33.239 --> 02:29:35.280 going to clip it and say you shouldn't become Orthodox 3029 02:29:35.319 --> 02:29:36.079 because he's being mean. 3030 02:29:36.959 --> 02:29:39.319 Their father's call call heretics stupid all the time. I 3031 02:29:39.319 --> 02:29:39.680 don't care. 3032 02:29:40.120 --> 02:29:44.920 Helien says, good reason words for Jonathan. If the words 3033 02:29:44.959 --> 02:29:47.360 of the Bible are God himself, then does the inclusion 3034 02:29:47.399 --> 02:29:49.920 of the Old and New Testament texts in the Koran 3035 02:29:50.319 --> 02:29:53.079 or Book of Mormon mean their books are maybe half 3036 02:29:53.159 --> 02:29:54.520 God or a quarter God. 3037 02:29:56.360 --> 02:29:57.760 Now they're they're not Scripture at all. 3038 02:29:58.879 --> 02:30:03.079 This one from do appreciate Vics for Jonathan? Why should 3039 02:30:03.079 --> 02:30:05.399 I trust in any of the Protestant Church's interpretation of 3040 02:30:05.440 --> 02:30:07.799 scripture rather than that of the church fathers, some of 3041 02:30:07.879 --> 02:30:09.920 which were disciples of the Apostles themselves. 3042 02:30:10.600 --> 02:30:12.079 I don't think you should bigger trust than any man. 3043 02:30:12.120 --> 02:30:13.879 The Bible says, you didn't even be trusting yourself. The 3044 02:30:13.920 --> 02:30:15.760 Bible says to trust in the Lord of all thine heart, 3045 02:30:15.799 --> 02:30:17.440 and lean not on the un understanding and all the 3046 02:30:17.479 --> 02:30:19.920 ways acknowledge him. How could you trust in something other 3047 02:30:20.000 --> 02:30:22.079 than yourself if you didn't actually have the scriptures of trust. 3048 02:30:22.120 --> 02:30:27.200 You're trusting in your own subjective determination that you trust you. 3049 02:30:27.399 --> 02:30:31.040 You know, I have multiple authorities and centuries behind me. 3050 02:30:31.120 --> 02:30:32.840 You have your own subjective judgment. 3051 02:30:33.399 --> 02:30:34.920 Why sixty six books to trust in. 3052 02:30:36.399 --> 02:30:40.120 Which God told you in your inner burning Bosom Muslim 3053 02:30:40.239 --> 02:30:41.440 argument is the truth canon? 3054 02:30:42.280 --> 02:30:45.040 You just say trust me? Bro No, I didn't argue 3055 02:30:45.079 --> 02:30:45.360 that at all. 3056 02:30:45.440 --> 02:30:49.079 So that's a strong many tradition history. 3057 02:30:49.440 --> 02:30:52.520 Bro Cyan says, I can line up ten Protestants and 3058 02:30:52.600 --> 02:30:55.000 all ten will have their own interpretation of scripture, all 3059 02:30:55.040 --> 02:30:59.000 believing theirs is guided by the Holy Spirit. It's nonsensical, yeah, 3060 02:30:59.000 --> 02:31:02.120 because Orthodox never or disagree with each other. Dukie Monster 3061 02:31:02.239 --> 02:31:06.799 says the fallacy. Dukie Monster has spoken. Protestants argue Jesus 3062 02:31:06.920 --> 02:31:09.040 is the Bible when he never said he was. But 3063 02:31:09.159 --> 02:31:12.239 the Eucharist is not Christ, even though he says it is. 3064 02:31:14.639 --> 02:31:15.000 Exactly. 3065 02:31:15.559 --> 02:31:19.200 Yeah, Jesus is obviously not turning in a cracker, is 3066 02:31:19.280 --> 02:31:21.600 not turning into a physical person that people are eating. 3067 02:31:21.639 --> 02:31:22.559 It's not cannibalism. 3068 02:31:23.200 --> 02:31:23.680 This one from. 3069 02:31:24.360 --> 02:31:25.319 But Jesus is a book. 3070 02:31:26.639 --> 02:31:32.079 This one from says Pastor John. Are you playing I. 3071 02:31:32.079 --> 02:31:33.520 Think Satan spoke from all eternity. 3072 02:31:33.920 --> 02:31:35.639 You have to go to the next one, says Pastor John. 3073 02:31:35.680 --> 02:31:37.840 Are you playing dumb about not being able to see 3074 02:31:37.840 --> 02:31:39.520 the Muslim parallel in your position? 3075 02:31:40.040 --> 02:31:40.479 Yes, he is. 3076 02:31:42.399 --> 02:31:44.920 He's he's accusing me of being a Muslim in the 3077 02:31:45.079 --> 02:31:47.920 in the context of understanding that Jesus Christ is the 3078 02:31:48.000 --> 02:31:49.079 Word of God from eternity. 3079 02:31:49.159 --> 02:31:52.200 Past So, no, in that particular context, it was a fallacy, 3080 02:31:52.280 --> 02:31:52.600 and it was. 3081 02:31:52.799 --> 02:31:53.920 It was. It's not the argument of. 3082 02:31:53.920 --> 02:31:58.399 Attack true, just this line slander argument is the actual context. 3083 02:31:58.440 --> 02:32:01.799 It's your argument about the text being eternal is identical 3084 02:32:01.840 --> 02:32:04.000 to the Muslim argument about the crime being internal. 3085 02:32:05.879 --> 02:32:07.719 You said you were bringing up Jesus too. 3086 02:32:08.799 --> 02:32:13.280 Spire says, this is why no one takes Jayder seriously. 3087 02:32:13.399 --> 02:32:15.520 Pure anger and ad Hominem is not a serious guy. 3088 02:32:15.959 --> 02:32:19.120 This one from here him being mean thousand. 3089 02:32:19.159 --> 02:32:21.319 That's why we had twenty thousand people convert to Orthodox 3090 02:32:21.479 --> 02:32:22.680 the last Pasca. 3091 02:32:23.559 --> 02:32:28.639 Henry Sanchez says, John, quote, Jay, give me one example. Unquote. 3092 02:32:29.079 --> 02:32:34.040 Jay answers. Then John says, yeah, not that one exactly. Yes, 3093 02:32:34.079 --> 02:32:36.280 as you disagree, Jonathan, I. 3094 02:32:36.239 --> 02:32:37.920 Don't know exactly, give me example of that. 3095 02:32:38.600 --> 02:32:42.000 Mayazaki says l m Ao. I think this is something 3096 02:32:42.079 --> 02:32:45.639 the young people say. Paul isn't is fallible and Jonathan 3097 02:32:45.959 --> 02:32:47.639 isn't w t F. 3098 02:32:49.239 --> 02:32:51.120 I've never said I was infallible. 3099 02:32:51.840 --> 02:32:55.120 You said that the canon is what God told you 3100 02:32:55.319 --> 02:32:58.079 and your inner voice, and then you said it. Then 3101 02:32:58.120 --> 02:33:00.959 you said, theoretically, yes you did. You said yes you did. 3102 02:33:01.040 --> 02:33:02.479 What do you mean false? Now you're lying. You said 3103 02:33:02.520 --> 02:33:04.319 the cannon was what the inner testimony was to you 3104 02:33:04.479 --> 02:33:05.120 that God told you. 3105 02:33:06.200 --> 02:33:07.959 I said that I can hear the Divine voice through 3106 02:33:08.000 --> 02:33:09.159 the least Holy Spirit. 3107 02:33:09.479 --> 02:33:11.319 So now you're lying because that's what you said. So 3108 02:33:11.440 --> 02:33:13.760 thank you for contradiction with audibly. I already said that 3109 02:33:13.760 --> 02:33:15.479 he did speaking audible. I didn't say that about audible. 3110 02:33:15.479 --> 02:33:17.120 It's the inner voice or inner testimony. 3111 02:33:17.239 --> 02:33:18.040 It's the inner voice. 3112 02:33:18.520 --> 02:33:18.840 You Sai